&inline-ubuntu-icon; <phrase>Quick Guide</phrase> [10:38] <claude> i'm blind... [10:38] <froud> tired [10:39] <claude> :) [10:39] <froud> at processing time the xsl and xml are input to xsltproc [10:39] <froud> the xsl tests for lang [10:39] <claude> this should be fixed by the scripts when recreating the xml from po [10:40] <froud> yes [10:40] <froud> sed [10:40] <froud> this is why I take so long for the scripts [10:41] <claude> in the same manner than global.ent [10:41] <froud> the script also makes pot files [10:41] <froud> also does msmerge if required etc [10:41] <froud> yes [10:41] <froud> test -n "$VERBOSE" && echo xml2pot $i $j [10:41] <froud> xml2pot ../../../$i > $m/$j.pot.new [10:42] <froud> if test -s $m/$j.pot.new; then [10:42] <froud> msgmerge -o $m/$j.pot.new -i $m/$j.pot.new $m/$j.pot.new 2> /dev/null [10:42] <froud> if ! cmp -s $m/$j.pot.new $m/$j.pot; then [10:42] <froud> mv $m/$j.pot.new $m/$j.pot [10:42] <froud> else [10:42] <froud> rm $m/$j.pot.new [10:42] <froud> fi [10:42] <froud> fi [10:42] <froud> this was taken from kde [10:42] <claude> fiouuu [10:42] <froud> wip [10:42] <froud> work in progress [10:42] <froud> does not work yet [10:43] <froud> well, you think this system can work [10:44] <claude> of course, if it came from you :) [10:44] <froud> because if I have a single pot I dont know how to create the xml's and expand them into the docs at proc [10:44] <froud> claude: I am going but the seat of my pants with this i18n stuff [10:45] <froud> question? [10:45] <froud> how can I automate the upload of a new or modified pot to rosetta [10:45] <froud> the same for po files [10:45] <claude> that should be asked to carlos or daff [10:46] <claude> but rosetta still have many problems [10:46] <froud> if we have 100 p files changed because of an edit I dont want to upload them one at a time [10:46] <froud> I want a fire and forget process [10:46] <claude> of course [10:46] <froud> I want a perfect world!!! [10:46] <froud> I want it now === froud throws all the toys out of the cot [10:47] <claude> quiet please [10:47] <froud> I want my dummies [10:47] <claude> :) [10:47] <froud> oh shoot this i18n stuff is gonna be a bug challenge [10:48] <claude> yes, but it's very important [10:48] <froud> s/bug/big [10:48] <froud> very [10:48] <froud> well I am going back to this script [10:48] <claude> when there is an english word every two sentences, that makes very amateur [10:49] <claude> ok, i let you work [10:49] <froud> ok [10:49] <claude> if i can help... [11:14] <claude> froud: sorry, but do you know why xml2pot with xml files in menus doesn't produce anything (except header) ? [11:14] <claude> xml2pot common/menus/accessories.xml [11:14] <froud> Hmm no have not tested [11:14] <froud> what comand ar eyou runing [11:15] <froud> lemme see [11:15] <claude> see above [11:21] <froud> wierd [11:23] <claude> do you want that i post to the list ? [11:23] <froud> to translators lists [11:23] <froud> would be a good idea [11:44] <froud> claude: seems parser.cpp does not support touching menuchoice elements [11:47] <froud> claude: we will need our own script for this [11:47] <claude> heh [11:48] <froud> within normal context it would not make sense to create a po for menuchoice since it is used inline [11:48] <froud> however in our context it does make sense [11:49] <claude> could we use another xml tag for this ? [11:49] <froud> no [11:49] <claude> k, so let's script :) [11:49] <froud> howver if the menuchoice is wrapped in sect1 it does work [11:50] <froud> but I will script it anyway it is will be neater [11:50] <claude> thx

=== mdke [~matt@mdke.user] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Leaving"] === trickie [~trickie@203-166-242-109.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke [~mdke@mdke.user] has joined #ubuntu-doc === matt_ [~mdke@81-178-94-47.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === matt_ [~mdke@81-178-94-47.dsl.pipex.com] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Leaving"] === Liz [~Liz@fixed-203-87-27-63.nsw.chariot.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:37] hello all who are awake [04:37] me [04:37] but leaving soon [04:38] no worries..you have a great day [04:38] i have some hoary issues that i need to sort out today [04:38] what sort? [04:38] maybe I can help quickly [04:39] yesterday i had a problem with x not working properly [04:39] hmm [04:39] never good [04:39] we fixed that..but now my scroll mouse wont work [04:39] at all [04:39] or just in ff? [04:39] the mouse works..but the scroll wheel doesnt [04:40] and it was working perfectly before the x upgrade [04:40] hmm [04:40] im guessing i need tor un the mouse setup thing [04:40] but i dont know how yet [04:40] no, it should just work [04:40] it is USB? [04:41] no..serial [04:41] i can use it as usb..but it works just as well with an attachment on it [04:41] its a logitech mouse [04:42] have you tried it as a usb mouse and seen if it works? [04:42] naa.last time i tried that, it kept saying cant find serial port mouse [04:42] you tried that since x update? [04:43] no... [04:44] ill give it a go [04:44] so..if that doesnt work..how to i get the mouse to be noticed as it should be? [04:45] hmm [04:45] that would involve hacking xorg.conf [04:45] ugly matter [04:45] im not using xorg.conf [04:45] you running warty eh? [04:46] we moved back to X86 [04:46] no..hory [04:46] hoary [04:46] ? [04:46] xorg.conf..the kernal is having hissy fits on me [04:46] you running xfree86 on hoary? [04:46] yesterday after an update..yesterday morning [04:46] when i boot..i get a black screen [04:46] cool [04:46] what kind of machine? [04:46] it had problems..so we backed it up and now it points to x86 [04:47] ok [04:47] home built [04:47] asus athlon 2000+ mb [04:47] no..asrock [04:47] ok [04:47] not asus [04:47] onboard video is an sis chip [04:47] just wondering if you had a wierd laptop or something [04:48] ahh..heh..no, its not a lappy [04:48] what kind of mouse do you have? [04:48] model #, etc? [04:49] logitech optical mouse m-bj58 [04:50] you have the same mouse as me [04:50] dont ya just love it [04:50] how interesting [04:50] i talked my partner into getting the same mouse for his lappy [04:51] Section "InputDevice" [04:51] Identifier "Configured Mouse" [04:51] Driver "mouse" [04:51] Option "CorePointer" [04:51] Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice" [04:51] Option "Protocol" "ImPS/2" [04:51] Option "Emulate3Buttons" "true" [04:51] Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" [04:51] EndSection [04:51] that is my mouse section [04:51] what is yours? [04:52] that sounded, never mind [04:54] lol [04:54] hang on and ill have a look [04:56] Section "InputDevice" [04:56] Identifier "Configured Mouse" [04:56] Driver "mouse" [04:56] Option "CorePointer" [04:56] Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice" [04:56] Option "Protocol" "ImPS/2" [04:56] Option "Emulate3Buttons" "true" [04:56] Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" [04:57] EndSection [04:57] thats in XF86Config-4 file [04:57] which is the one im using ..i think [04:57] what does your xorg.conf say? [04:58] same thing [04:58] i just checked to compare them [04:58] that is odd [04:59] but the difference is the monitor [04:59] they are identical [04:59] but yours doesn't work correctly [04:59] yep [04:59] ive had this mouse for well over a year now [04:59] with no problems [04:59] truly odd [04:59] im sure its to do with the xorg.conf file [05:00] neway [05:00] ill brb [05:00] does the xorg/xfree86 file you the configured mouse? [05:03] sorry?..run that past me again? [05:04] i did a dist-upgrade the other day [05:05] i did an update on thursday night.. [05:05] friday morning when i went to boot into it [05:05] i got a black screen..and gdm wouldnt open [05:05] no display whatsoever [05:05] sure [05:06] so martinj got me to back up xorg.conf file..and reboot [05:06] it rebooted into xf86.config [05:06] which is what im using now [05:06] ok [05:06] but..now my mouse isnt scrolling [05:07] bug with xfree maybe [05:07] there have been a few fixes to xorg since then [05:07] you might want to try again [05:08] ill do that now then [05:09] Liz, when i did a dist-upgrade it installed xserver-xorg which conflicts with xserver-xfree86 [05:09] ? [05:09] i did the dist-upgrade 4 days ago tho [05:09] and it was working fine [05:09] till the update on thursday night [05:09] sorry...5 days ago [05:10] Liz, ok [05:10] Liz, what i meant is that unless you specified to reinstall xserver-xfree86, you won't have it installed [05:10] this is the 1st day in a few that xorg hasn't been updated [05:12] trickie, no idea how to do that [05:13] Liz, try... 'sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg' [05:13] Liz, from a terminal :) [05:14] ill just wait till the updates done [05:15] ahh..bet thats the problem [05:15] it says no x server known for your video hardware [05:15] Liz, where does it say that? [05:16] that was the first screen when it started up [05:16] its asking for my video cards bus identifier [05:17] sheesh..is onboard..i have no idea about these things [05:17] cya all [05:18] Liz, Is your video card an ATI card> [05:18] ? [05:19] its as sis onboard as far as i know [05:19] hang on..and ill tell you exactly [05:21] info.product type string value 661FX/M661FX/M661MX/741/760/M760 PCI/AGP [05:25] Liz, ok... i don't know what vendor the card is from... i'll have a quick peek. [05:25] ok..and ill just doa reboot [05:25] if i dont come back [05:25] Liz, in the meantime can you login with a failsafe terminal [05:25] ? [05:25] you know i screwed up [05:25] adn ill be back from the laptop [05:25] to fix it [05:25] brb === matt_ [~matt@81-178-94-47.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Liz [~Liz@fixed-203-87-27-63.nsw.chariot.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:29] yay..its working [05:29] even got my mouse going [05:29] hi Liz [05:30] hi matt_ === matt_ is now known as mdke [05:30] Liz, awesome [05:30] hi trickie [05:30] mdke, awesome [05:30] now how do i know which version of x im running? [05:31] X -version [05:32] mdke, hello [05:33] is the lastest release ubuntu 6.8.2-8? [05:33] heh [05:33] not sure [05:33] Liz, i think so [05:33] yay [05:33] then its the latest [05:33] :) [05:33] ill have to remember that dbpk thing [05:34] Liz, yeah it is great... took me while to figure out that is how i can reconfig packages [05:34] Anyway... bbl guys [05:34] bye [05:34] thansk tricikie [05:34] my typing is shocking === Kinnison [~dsilvers@haddenham.pepperfish.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === sabmoc [~alex@d154-20-136-124.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === trickie is now known as trickie-bbl === froud looks around the room for an editor [10:14] The document Ubuntu Device Database is in svn @ https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/froud/gnome/ubuntu-device-database [10:14] if anyone is interested to edit/contribute, go for it [10:16] for easy reading a HTML is at http://www.inwords.co.za/ubuntu/device-database/ubuntu-device-database.html === Burgundavia [~Burgundav@S01060004e220d70a.du.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:26] Burgundavia: hi [10:28] Burgundavia: what's your take on the DevApp discussion going on in the list [10:32] I agree with you [10:33] that if we present something to mark, he can make it happen [10:33] do we have a machine that we can test docbook wiki on? [10:33] to look at their level of functionality [10:33] Yes, but not connected to the network [10:34] what about other solutions [10:34] what sort? [10:34] I haven't really read the thread carefully yet [10:34] well I mentioned Lenya [10:34] and we should look a t plone [10:35] but I think plon e will not easily support this [10:36] hmm [10:36] I know next to nothing about cms in general [10:37] ok take a look at http://lenya.apache.org [10:38] problem with lenya is it is still under heavy devel [10:38] but then so would be the case for docbook wiki [10:39] what I like with lenya is that it covers revision control, languages, editing, workflow etc === froud growls. Docbook wiki is down [10:43] hmm [10:45] I would say what we need is something to tie tighter into plone [10:45] on lenya we will have to extend thier XSLs and do some work on the Cocoon pipes to get full docbook working [10:45] why do we need that? [10:47] I guess I have never really understood what the f*ck a cms actually does [10:47] manages content [10:47] but we need CMS, DMS and KMS [10:47] ? [10:48] Document and Knowldge Management Systems [10:49] ok [10:49] I think I am getting past the buzzwords now [10:49] wikipedia to the resque [10:49] rescue === claude [~claude@23.37.79.83.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:50] problem with plone is it needs lots ofg work to include aml processing, right? [10:50] aml processing? [10:50] xml [10:51] ok [10:51] hi [10:51] my opinion is lenya is too much for use only by Docteam [10:52] needs probably a dedicated admin [10:52] why do you say that? [10:52] i'm in the process of setting up a cms at work [10:53] it's huge work ! [10:53] what have you used === froud know [10:53] jahia === froud hugs claude [10:53] ? [10:53] jahia is my favorite [10:53] but the license issue [10:53] yes, we know [10:54] I cant see Canonical accpeting it [10:54] hmmm [10:54] I guess from my perspective is what can get us writing docs the fastest [10:54] and how do we cut overhead to a bare minimum [10:54] we tested plone [10:55] and faced some security and performance issues [10:55] claude: but jahia support for docbook is not good [10:55] froud: don't know because docbook is new for me [10:55] claude: I found the perf issue the most both [10:55] agreed [10:56] Burgundavia: fastest yes, but with integrity [10:56] and that's the problem now with ubuntu Wiki [10:56] claude: :-) [10:56] integrity <-- what sort do you mean? === froud nods [10:56] Plone is ideal with 80% reading, 20% editing [10:56] Burgundavia: we need more than just content [10:57] and now there is many contributors [10:57] we need indirection [10:57] the whole workflow must be taken into account [10:57] ??? [10:58] and the storage format must be usable in apps other than the web [10:58] I understand your 3rd point [10:58] the 1st 2 got lost in buzzwords [10:59] and I am still uncertain as to the type of itegrity you mean [10:59] by indirection i mean the content must be presentation layer neutral [10:59] ok [10:59] we need to use the content for more than just the web [10:59] I understand that [10:59] this places demands on the integrity of the data storage format [11:00] by workflow I assume you mean creation --> web/print/etc. [11:00] so you mean technical itegrity [11:00] not trustworthy people [11:00] at the app layer we also need management of the structure in a way that promotes all our use cases [11:01] huh? [11:01] Burgundavia: to setup a CMS is one thing [11:01] but to support processes extenal becomes complex [11:01] to make it work is something else? [11:01] unless you have a core that supports this [11:01] ok [11:02] in fairly plain english, we need a revision control system [11:02] where the docs sit [11:02] the integrity of the core is important [11:02] a method of editing them online [11:02] yes [11:02] a method fo editng them offline [11:02] yes and off line [11:02] and converters to make the raw text into docbook and wiki and print and etc. [11:02] + we would like work flow [11:03] is what i just said work flow? [11:03] hmtl pdf rtf ps [11:03] ok [11:03] good [11:03] yes an dno [11:03] we are speaking about the same thing [11:03] work flow extends to include the development and release cycle [11:03] freezing docs, etc. [11:03] you write, I edit, another checks [11:03] another releases [11:04] ah [11:04] you want task based roles [11:04] all this is managed in th ecore [11:04] but the app layer has a work flow [11:04] app layer = what is this? [11:04] several layers [11:04] above the core [11:05] froud: should put the specs on the Docteam Wiki [11:05] froud: with a good schema !! [11:05] schema you mean xsd or diagram? [11:05] yes, sorry [11:06] guys have a look at the components section of http://lenya.apache.org/1_2_x/index.html [11:06] this will giv eyou some idea [11:07] note there is also tasks in addition to roles [11:10] I read through that [11:10] which got my brain working [11:11] about what we really need [11:11] at 30,000 feet [11:12] I think the first task should be delivery of docs [11:12] we already have the infastructure to create them [11:13] thus if we focus on getting a good method on publishing them statically to the web at first, we are far and way ahead [11:13] Static pub we already have [11:13] to a website? [11:13] yes [11:14] we transform to html and mako uploads to his space [11:14] from the svn? [11:14] bah [11:14] we need to make it official [11:14] over at kubuntu we have a site [11:14] http://www.kubuntu.org.uk [11:14] integrate with the existing wiki or eliminate docs from the wiki [11:15] click documentation [11:15] is it advertised? [11:15] if you are using kubuntu you know about it [11:15] ok [11:15] that document btw is just a plain html from docbook [11:15] but for ubuntu, that doesn't solve our issue [11:15] and for common docs [11:16] no cause there is a wiki in the way :-) [11:16] kubuntu runs on php [11:16] then lets move all docs out of the wiki [11:16] I don't really care where they are [11:16] and host where? [11:16] I just want them in one place [11:16] on ubuntu.com [11:16] just a seperate section [11:16] on docteam.ubuntu.com [11:17] what about help.ubuntu.com? [11:17] can do [11:18] but we have not addressed our problem here [11:18] OT, our proud national police at work: http://vancouver.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=bc_rcmp-carts20050401 [11:18] and that is? [11:18] we wanted people to write documents in a format that we can use [11:18] true [11:19] ok so we have 2 pressing concerns [11:19] 1. getting all docs into one place [11:19] 2. making those docs editable on the web in a good format [11:19] ok that means porting wiki to docbook [11:19] this is why I argued for a seperate wiki [11:20] dunno if you have seen how th ei18n stuff is working [11:20] ? [11:20] are we speaking about another wiki [11:20] or plain hmtl from the transformations [11:20] a webediting system [11:20] eventually [11:21] but at least at first a centralized web publishing system [11:21] I agree to get docs written and stored in a single place [11:21] and read from a central place [11:21] but you first need the system [11:21] true [11:21] then you can port stuff across [11:21] then we can say go to help.ubuntu.com/Networking [11:21] oh [11:21] another thing [11:21] if we port and people cant edit there will be screams [11:21] need readable urls [11:22] lenya can manage that [11:22] there are some nice Howtos in the wiki right now [11:22] yep [11:22] not [11:22] help.ubuntu.com/QW#%QSDFWE$V^SDFA [11:22] or even [11:22] agreed [11:22] blah&asdfasdflj&aljasdf [11:22] english words [11:23] well everything you said so far is supporte dby lenya [11:23] but lenya is java [11:23] hmm [11:23] I agree we dont need all of lenya immediately [11:23] don't see that going over real well [11:23] but it is good to know we can do it and more [11:23] true [11:23] what lenya [11:23] lenya apache [11:23] tomcat is very secure === claude still finds that specs should be written somewhere [11:23] and mark said it must stand the security muster === froud will do this but needs focus [11:24] mark agreed to whatever technology providing it is secure [11:24] what about freedom issue? [11:24] Burgundavia: apache is free [11:24] java? === claude thinks that froud has a lot of work and shouldn't omit to work on certain scripts... [11:25] yeah they dont like java [11:25] we saw with recent openoffice.org 2 that java is a problem now in the open-source world [11:25] but I think that the benfit far out weighs the religious inclinations here [11:26] probably [11:26] there is a difference [11:26] it's not only religious [11:26] we are using it not shipping it [11:26] we need a system that works and can standup to high volume of hits [11:26] and is secure [11:27] we also dont want to spend hours coding [11:27] i must recognize that java is the must with these requirements [11:27] we want something out the box that matches most needs [11:27] but canonical made the zope choice [11:27] however === froud suggests we install Jahia :-) [11:28] mark seemed ready to throw some devs at our issue [11:28] how many and how long [11:28] ?? anyone knows [11:28]