[12:49] <dholbach> good night
[12:49] <crimsun> night daniel
[12:53] <dholbach> bye crimsun, Mithrandir
[12:55] <tseng> thats awfully early for him
[12:56] <ogra> yep, he has to help a friend moving
[12:56] <Burgundavia> anybody else seriously annoyed by the new "feature" of nautilus?
[12:57] <dredg> no
[12:57] <tseng> what feature is that
[12:58] <ogra> tseng, left and middlebutton behavior changed in nautilus
[12:58] <tseng> if you mean closing the parent window
[12:58] <tseng> it bugs the sh** out of me
[12:58] <crimsun> I thought he meant the auto-closing of parent
[12:58] <tseng> how do i change it back
[12:58] <ogra> it has a gconf key
[12:58] <ogra> see nautilus hangelog
[12:58] <crimsun>   * debian/patches/02_ubuntuspatial.patch:
[12:58] <crimsun>     - changes to the spatial mode. Close the folders by default while browsing.
[12:58] <crimsun>       You can set "/apps/nautilus/preferences/no_ubuntu_spatial" to get the
[12:58] <crimsun>       previous spatial behaviour.
[12:58] <crimsun> eek, sorry about that
[12:58] <tseng> why in the world would we do that
[12:59] <ogra> tseng, sabdfls word ;)
[12:59] <tseng> UGH
[12:59] <Burgundavia> ugh
[12:59] <Burgundavia> gconf key>
[12:59] <Burgundavia> ?
[12:59] <Burgundavia> whose idea of crazy was that? (Yes i know it was marks)
[01:00] <ogra> Burgundavia, i like it...like i said :) if you dont, just switch it back
[01:00] <Burgundavia> ok
[01:01] <Burgundavia> -devel or just ubuntu for a discussion on it?
[01:01] <tseng> it makes sense to say "just switch it" for a theme or a wallpaper
[01:01] <tseng> this is a little more buh, its buried deep in gconf
[01:01] <Burgundavia> tseng: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8516
[01:01] <Burgundavia> read that
[01:01] <tseng> and, at the last second i should note
[01:03] <ogra> tseng, thats not last second....
[01:03] <tseng> last week?
[01:03] <Burgundavia> almost last second
[01:03] <ogra> wait until release day ;)
[01:04] <StoneTable> working to package libapache2-mod-ldap-userdir.  we've got 1.1.4, debian has 1.1.7.  For something like this (mostly minor bug fixes, but does fix the build problem), should I just package up the newer version?
[01:04] <ogra> clearlooks was pulled in 1h before preview....thats last minute
[01:04] <tseng> that was also preview.
[01:04] <tseng> and it also made sense
[01:04] <ogra> i think the nautilus change makes a lot of sense for newbies
[01:05] <tseng> i dont
[01:05] <Burgundavia> i also don't
[01:05] <tseng> i think windows jumping around like babies on crack, and the old one disappearing will confuse newbies silly
[01:05] <Burgundavia> it makes "swimming up the tree" very difficult
[01:05] <koke> w00t?!?
[01:05] <koke> spatial is great!
[01:05] <tseng> you need to be familiar with the old spacial behaviour before you have any fucking clue what is happening at all
[01:06] <tseng> if you wanted to be friendly to people coming from windows, you would give them browser mode
[01:06] <Burgundavia> now, the old spatial wasn't really that must better with it barfing screens all over the place
[01:06] <tseng> well, once you realize that every window is spatial
[01:06] <koke> how is the "new" mode??
[01:07] <tseng> koke: its like doing shift+click
[01:07] <ogra> swapped middle and leftclick
[01:07] <tseng> koke: the new window opens, and the old one closes
[01:07] <koke> hummm, not as bad
[01:07] <crimsun> (I admit I've not used nautilus in some time)
[01:08] <Burgundavia> middle clicks and gconf keys are really not discoverable
[01:08] <Burgundavia> that was my major beef
[01:08] <tseng> absolutely they arent.
[01:08] <koke> tseng: talking about windows user, IIRC win98 default behaviour was like "old" spatial
[01:08] <tseng> sabdfl: what is the rationale for this nautilus change please?
[01:08] <tseng> koke: windows 95
[01:08] <dredg> koke: that was windows 95
[01:09] <dredg> it's now 10 years later :)
[01:09] <tseng> koke: was psuedo-spatial
[01:09] <tseng> in fact, it was window-per-folder, not spatial at all
[01:09] <dredg> that said, i hate all file managers. none really feel comfortable to use
[01:09] <tseng> spatial includes remembering windows size and position
[01:09] <tseng> every window relates in a 1 to 1 with an object
[01:09] <tseng> folder, file, what have you
[01:09] <tseng> and it has its own properties which are persistant
[01:09] <koke> oh, my mind try to remove those remembrances :)
[01:10] <tseng> windows did none of those.
[01:11] <tseng> i can see the threads on osnews now
[01:12] <tseng> "i tried ubuntu but it sucks because windows pop up at random omglolbbq
[01:12] <koke> would you find useful an options in nautilus preferences dialog to set the behaviour??
[01:12] <dredg> i think you mistyped o*ne*s
[01:12] <Burgundavia> I want to be an option
[01:12] <Burgundavia> just not the default one
[01:12] <tseng> i would find it less offensive if it had a preference
[01:13] <Burgundavia> and not having it an option to turn off in the GUI means that it should never ever have been considered
[01:13] <tseng> but i still dont understand it at all
[01:13] <tseng> its not spatial or browser, its broken for everyone
[01:13] <tseng> except ogra.
[01:13] <ogra> :)
[01:13] <Burgundavia> tseng: have you added your comments to 8516?
[01:13] <tseng> yes
[01:13] <tseng> but not at length
[01:14] <tseng> since sabdfl isnt even cc'd
[01:14] <tseng> and the bug is closed
[01:14] <ogra> tseng, the alternative for me would be a broken shift key, since i used it a lot....
[01:14] <Burgundavia> what is his email?
[01:14] <Burgundavia> I will add it to the cc
[01:14] <ogra> Burgundavia, he wrote to the ML
[01:14] <Burgundavia> ok
[01:14] <ogra> very recently
[01:14] <Burgundavia> which one?
[01:15] <ogra> apt-get org for example
[01:15] <Burgundavia> sorry
[01:15] <Burgundavia> duh
[01:15] <Burgundavia> I read that as he had written something about this to an ML
[01:15] <ogra> no, for the mail address :)
[01:16] <Burgundavia> hmm
[01:16] <Burgundavia> mark@canonical won't take in bugzilla
[01:17] <tseng> he might not even be signed up
[01:17] <tseng> he is not directly involved in development
[01:17] <Burgundavia> he is in bugzilla
[01:17] <Mithrandir> Burgundavia: just type mark and you'll get a list of choiced.
[01:17] <Burgundavia> but under something else then
[01:17] <Mithrandir> uhm, choices
[01:23] <koke> which should be the text for the preference??
[01:24] <koke> "C_lose folder when opening a children" ??
[01:24] <Burgundavia> close folder when opening a subfolder
[01:25] <koke> previous folder??
[01:25] <Burgundavia> close previous folder when opening a subfolder?
[01:25] <koke> yep
[01:25] <Burgundavia> that could work
[01:25] <Burgundavia> is this going in asap?
[01:25] <jani> goodnight all
[01:25] <koke> which is exactly the gconf preference??
[01:26] <koke> true == old behaviour, or true == new behaviour??
[01:26] <koke> Burgundavia: only if I'm able to hack nautilus :)
[01:26] <Burgundavia> ok
[01:27] <Burgundavia> I would say, from a usablity perspective, that is should be unchecked
[01:27] <Burgundavia> change the backend to suit that
[01:27] <Burgundavia> thus checked== close parent
[01:28] <Burgundavia> (the current and rather dumb default behaviour)
[01:41] <Burgundavia> ogra: ping
[01:41] <diamond> lo folks
[01:41] <ogra> Burgundavia, pong
[01:41] <Burgundavia> ogra: do you drag and drop files between folders?
[01:42] <ogra> Burgundavia, mostly only from the desktop to folders
[01:42] <Burgundavia> ok
[01:42] <Burgundavia> just wondering
[01:42] <ogra> or the other way around....
[01:42] <Burgundavia> I just realized how often I do it
[01:42] <Burgundavia> and how borked the new scheme is for that
[01:43] <diamond_>  /msg nickserv link diamond 9639365
[01:43] <diamond_> oh nice
[01:43] <diamond_> very nice
[01:44] <diamond_> anyway.... i have a question, dredg uploaded a package for me earlier (http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/s/snacc/1.3bbn-5.1ubuntu2/),
[01:44] <diamond_> but it doesn't build. however, that version isn't avialable in apt,
[01:44] <Burgundavia> nice password
[01:45] <diamond_> when fixing the package, should i incement the version to ubuntu3?
[01:45] <dredg> steve you chump :)
[01:45] <dredg> yes
[01:45] <diamond> dredg: right
[01:45] <dredg> bump the version
[01:46] <dredg> the old files from earlier are still in the archive. reuploading is bad, wrong and bad
[01:46] <lamont> diamond: that _source_ isn't in the archive?
[01:46] <lamont> dredg: uploading new files with the same version will just get rejected...
[01:46] <diamond> lamont: ' apt-cache showsrc snacc' shows ubuntu1
[01:46] <dredg> lamont: yeah, been there.
[01:47] <lamont>     *  snacc_1.3bbn-5.1ubuntu2.diff.gz
[01:47] <lamont>     * snacc_1.3bbn-5.1ubuntu2.dsc
[01:47] <lamont>     * snacc_1.3bbn.orig.tar.gz
[01:47] <lamont> that'd be ubuntu2 in the archive...
[01:47] <lamont> diamond: hence your mirror is out of date, or you haven't said 'apt-get update' in a while
[01:47] <diamond> lamont: right, probably the latter, so my bad
[01:48] <diamond> i'll just be very quiet now -)
[01:49] <lamont> heh
[01:56] <koke> what a clean code! it's sooo easy to hack it :)
[02:03] <diamond> lamont: ah. i am vindicated! t'was my mirror. they probably only sync every 6 hours or someat. 'bout time it wasn't my fault for something -)
[02:04] <lamont> heh
[02:04] <diamond> (at least i just did an update, and still ubuntu1)
[02:04] <dredg> diamond: what mirror?
[02:04] <diamond> dredg: heanet
[02:04] <dredg> hmm
[02:05] <dredg> esat is out of sync too
[02:06] <dredg> ah
[02:06] <dredg> @ERROR: max connections (15) reached - try again later
[02:06] <dredg> that's in the heanet log
[02:07] <StoneTable> if anyone has time, I could use a review (libapache2-mod-ldap-userdir): http://thorin.battleaxe.net/~stone/hoary/
[02:12] <koke> Burgundavia: I got it!!! :D
[02:12] <Burgundavia> koke: ?
[02:12] <Burgundavia> the patch works?
[02:12] <koke> the nautilus patch
[02:12] <Burgundavia> cool
[02:12] <koke> yeah, it works :D
[02:12] <koke> but has a bug
[02:12] <Burgundavia> now we can stop this insanity by offering the option
[02:13] <Burgundavia> bug?
[02:13] <koke> well, the bug was really for seb128's patch
[02:13] <koke> in the new behaviour
[02:13] <Burgundavia> ah
[02:13] <Burgundavia> what is the bug?
[02:13] <koke> if you open the parent window (Alt+Up), the current one keeps open
[02:14] <Burgundavia> I see
[02:14] <Burgundavia> got that too
[02:14] <Burgundavia> not a major bug though
[02:20] <tseng> ugh @ monodoc
[02:20] <diamond> right. sleeping time. nite folks
[02:48] <Vollstrecker> Hi all.
[02:48] <Burgundavia> salut
[02:48] <Vollstrecker> Why has libcurl3 such an old version?
[02:49] <Vollstrecker> In debian sarge is 7.13.1 I have an amule pkg for sarge, and the ubuntu of my tester can't install it because of the too old version.
[02:51] <ajmitch> hi all
[02:52] <ajmitch> libcurl3 in hoary?
[02:52] <Vollstrecker> pe7er knows what he uses. He told me.
[02:52] <ajmitch> 7.13.1 would have been uploaded after the upstream version freeze
[02:53] <ajmitch> it appears to be in main, not universe
[02:53] <Vollstrecker> I don't know, I use only sarge.
[02:53] <lamont> ajmitch: is in main
[02:54] <ajmitch> yep, 7.13.0-1 has a changelog entry of 5th Feb, well after UVF
[02:54] <Vollstrecker> 7.13.1 is required.
[02:54] <lamont> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8088
[02:55] <ajmitch> Vollstrecker: we can't do anything about packages in main here
[02:55] <ajmitch> and I don't think there'd be much chance of a change at this late stage in the release cycle, sorry
[02:56] <lamont> ajmitch: and it takes an act of god, pretty much, to change libraries in main less than a week before release
[02:56] <lamont> it'll be in breezy once that opens, though... :)
[02:56] <ajmitch> lamont: or sabdfl :)
[02:56] <lamont> god == mdz
[02:56] <Vollstrecker> I have no prob with this, but it would be nice, that ubuntu users could have easy to update cvs snaps of amule.
[02:56] <lamont> the archangel == jdub
[02:57] <Vollstrecker> I thought ubuntu is based on sid, how can they have older versions than in sarge?
[02:57] <lamont> this late in the game, even sabdfl at least listens to mdz
[02:58] <ajmitch> because ubuntu tracks sid up until upstream version freeze, and then doesn't grab any new packages automatically
[02:58] <ajmitch> sarge is still unfrozen apart from base, so packages can migrate into testing
[02:58] <Vollstrecker> When is your freeze?
[02:58] <Vollstrecker> Or release
[02:59] <ajmitch> release is in a week
[02:59] <Vollstrecker> And then came new pkg's
[02:59] <Vollstrecker> ?
[03:03] <ajmitch> once it is reopened
[03:09] <tseng> FUCK YEAH MUINE
[03:09] <Burgundavia> ?
[03:09] <tseng> im not sure if these packages are good enough to release
[03:09] <tseng> but they work
[03:23] <arzajac> Hello.  Is there anyone here?
[03:31] <crimsun> sure, what's up?
[04:09] <arzajac> There is a bug in sl-modem-source
[04:10] <arzajac> It would be really easy to fix it and make sl-modem-modules.  Would this be possible for Hoary?
[04:11] <crimsun> what's the bug?
[04:12] <arzajac> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-March/006183.html
[04:12] <arzajac> Basically, it makes modules for debian using kernel-headers.
[04:12] <arzajac> It can be changed to linux-headers.
[04:13] <crimsun> hmm
[04:13] <arzajac> Is it too late for this.  Can the sl-modem-modules package be introduced?
[04:13] <crimsun> there should not be a sl-modem-modules* package.
[04:13] <arzajac> Why?
[04:13] <crimsun> that's created by the user by compiling from sl-modem-source.
[04:14] <crimsun> sl-modem-modules is replaced by sl-modem-modules-new
[04:14] <arzajac> Yes, but then the user must download module-assistant and the sl-modem-source.  It would be easier to just make the modules for the user.
[04:15] <crimsun> that's only done for ubuntu-maintainable ones, i.e. in 'main'
[04:15] <arzajac> I am quite active on the forums.  I would assume that this represents about 35-50 per cent of all winmodems in North-America.
[04:16] <arzajac> ...Judging from the amount of questions on this.  Also, this driver can be used with most AC97 codec modems,  That is significant.
[04:16] <arzajac> Because Universi is not updated
[04:17] <arzajac> Because Universe is not updated/maintained after release?
[04:17] <crimsun> universe is frozen for Hoary when Hoary releases and unfrozen for Breezy as soon as it opens
[04:18] <crimsun> I think the Depends needs to be changed, yes.
[04:18] <arzajac> So modules made today would become obsolete and not be updated.  Is there any way to put the modules elsewhere?
[04:18] <crimsun> kernel-image-_KVERS_ | linux-image-_KVERS_ should suffice
[04:18] <arzajac> Right.  At least the packages generated would work.
[04:19] <crimsun> I should have caught that last time around.
[04:19] <arzajac> I should have notified you six months ago when the first complaints came in on the forums.
[04:19] <crimsun> well, I was asked yesterday to modify a different field in debian/control, which I did, but I didn't check the rest
[04:20] <arzajac> The lucent modem drivers were added to restriced-modules.  Any chance here?  ( I know it is late!)
[04:21] <arzajac> ...That would be a new feature...
[04:21] <arzajac> And the modules are useless without the daemon.
[04:23] <crimsun> essentially, you're asking if we can compile an sl-modem-modules-new-$arch for every linux-image-$arch ?
[04:23] <crimsun> s/arch/uname -r/g
[04:23] <arzajac> They only work on 386 AFAIK.
[04:24] <arzajac> It is a precompiled binary from SmartLink.
[04:24] <crimsun> yes, for each arch under i386
[04:24] <arzajac> Oh.  Yes.
[04:25] <crimsun> hmm.  It's not my call (and I think this should be discussed in #ubuntu-kernel, too).
[04:26] <arzajac> I understand.  I am willing to help in any way.  I only wish I had navigated the wiki sooner.
[04:27] <arzajac> Is there any work a guy like me can do to help right now?
[04:27] <crimsun> I'll go ahead and fix s/kernel/linux/g
[04:27] <crimsun> but I don't feel it's wise to generate kernel modules for each arch under i386 without speaking with the rest of the kernel team
[04:30] <arzajac> Okay.  Thanks.  I gotta go -  the baby's crying....
[04:30] <crimsun> np.
[04:37] <crimsun> hey robitaille
[04:45] <robitaille> hi crimsun
[04:47] <StoneTable> Anyone feel like reviewing prj2make? http://thorin.battleaxe.net/~stone/hoary/
[04:51] <crimsun> oh geez, yeah, I should take a look at the ToDo
[04:54] <crimsun> StoneTable: please put a link on MOTUTodo
[04:55] <StoneTable> okay, will do :)
[04:58] <crimsun> thanks.
[05:43] <schweeb> howdy
[05:43] <crimsun> howdy
[05:46] <bddebian> Hello schweeb
[05:47] <ajmitch> howdy
[05:47] <bddebian> ajmitch!!
[05:47] <ajmitch> bddebian!!!1one!
[05:47] <bddebian> ajmitch:  Hey, are you gonna get a different laptop or do you still want me to send you the memory and such??
[05:48] <ajmitch> I'll get a different laptop
[05:48] <ajmitch> but not for quite a few months yet
[05:48] <ajmitch> maybe not till the end of the year, so feel free to send the RAM :)
[05:49] <bddebian> Or do you want the whole laptop?? :-)
[05:49] <ajmitch> hah. that'd be nice :)
[05:49] <ajmitch> what is the laptop?
[05:49] <ajmitch> near-death?
[05:52] <bddebian> No it's my old Dell.  650Mhz but needs a keyboard and the battery latch is broken so it falls out easily.. :-(
[05:54] <ajmitch> probably similar than the cdrom latch on the current one
[05:54] <ajmitch> it's a different model latitude, right?
[05:54] <crimsun> Xfce 4.2.1.1 transition complete.
[05:55] <ajmitch> good work, crimsun :)
[05:55] <crimsun> danke
[05:55] <crimsun> jani did nearly all the plugins :)
[05:56] <crimsun> as simple as apt-getting xfce4 :-)
[05:57] <bddebian> ajmitch: Yeah it's a CPx but the keyboard in your CPi might fit
[05:58] <ajmitch> alright
[05:59] <bddebian> Well there goes my Ubuntu box.. ;-P
[06:02] <ajmitch> heh, I couldn't take that off you..
[06:03] <ajmitch> you need something for MOTU work ;)
[06:03] <bddebian> Nah, that's OK. I have another laptop waiting in the wings at work. :-)
[06:03] <bddebian> Bah, you know I'm worthless.. :-)
[06:05] <ajmitch> lamont: thanks :)
[06:06] <lamont> ajmitch: the biggest effect it will have is to cause things you're currently working on that are down the list a ways to not get built for an hour or 12.
[06:06] <ajmitch> not too much of a problem here, I think
[06:07] <lamont> OTOH, out-of-date things (older version is in the archive) are built first
[06:19] <schweeb> man, some people really reacted pretty strongly to the Ubuntu login prank.  I thought it was hilarious (man, I didn't think mdz was that young)
[06:20] <Lathiat> yeh i thought it was pretty funny
[06:21] <ajmitch> someone claiming his computer had been raped ;)
[06:21] <schweeb> I got to work, started my PC up, and cracked up
[06:21] <bddebian> heh
[06:21] <Lathiat> so who was in it
[06:21] <schweeb> and then there was the whole Fleck thing
[06:21] <schweeb> I laughed for a good 3 hours straight this morning
[06:22] <schweeb> Lathiat: top is elmo (ftp-master and admin), right is sabdfl (shuttleworth), left is mdz
[06:23] <Lathiat> ah cool
[06:24] <Lathiat> http://www.whiprush.org/2005/04/back_to_solaris.html <- haha
[06:24] <Lathiat> " The other, more popular theory is that the user merely starved to death waiting for Netbeans 4 to launch on the Sun machines."
[06:24] <schweeb> yea
[06:24] <schweeb> I was at the bar with whip earlier
[06:24] <schweeb> he was still wearing the Sun shirt
[06:24] <schweeb> lol
[06:25] <Lathiat> heh
[06:39] <schweeb> lamont: well, the percentages are a bit off now, since some packages have been knocked out already
[06:39] <schweeb> and by a bit, I mean a lot
[06:39] <lamont> yeah, but % of what?
[06:39] <schweeb> the original list
[06:39] <lamont> ??
[06:39] <lamont> percent of the distance down the list?
[06:40] <schweeb> yes
[06:40] <lamont> oj
[06:40] <lamont> ok even
[06:40] <schweeb> they were ordered by popcon
[06:40] <schweeb> and then divided by distance
[06:41] <schweeb> hence making it easier to accomplish a goal of fixing the top 25% of packages according to popcon
[06:53] <tseng> "
[06:53] <tseng> I've added links to the corresponding directories for all hoary packages
[06:53] <tseng> now.
[06:53] <tseng> "
[06:54] <tseng> http://higgs.djpig.de/ubuntu/www/hoary/gnome/muine
[07:07] <tseng> by request :)
[07:08] <crimsun> oh excellent, higgs is back
[07:08] <crimsun> and taylored to ubuntu.
[07:08] <tseng> yep
[07:08] <tseng> we asked him to add links to build logs
[07:09] <crimsun> yeah, that rocks
[07:10] <tseng> indeed
[07:36] <Usiu> Hi, I get compilation error 48:38: X11/extensions/scrnsaver.h: No such file or directory and I have libxext-dev instaled what's more the file doesnt contain that header...
[07:36] <schweeb> libxss-dev
[07:37] <Usiu> schweeb, thx
[07:38] <schweeb> no problem
[07:38] <Usiu> schweeb, is it ubuntu specyfic or it's as on debian ?
[07:38] <schweeb> I've run into that problem before, myself :)
[07:38] <schweeb> can't remember.
[07:38] <schweeb> use packages.debian.org to check
[07:39] <Usiu> schweeb, I moved to ubuntu but I want still to maintain unofficial debian packages.. I have a sponsor now..
[07:39] <tseng> Usiu: use a pbuilder chroot with unstable
[07:39] <schweeb> ^^^^
[07:40] <Usiu> tseng, yes.. I always use it for building for sid/sarge
[07:40] <tseng> well then
[07:40] <tseng> that will verify your deps by force
[09:43] <hsprang> good morning :)
[10:36] <dholbach> morning
[10:47] <siretart> hello world :)
[10:48] <dholbach> hey siretart
[10:48] <siretart> huhu dholbach
[10:48] <siretart> how are things going?
[10:50] <dholbach> quite good... i should be helping a friend move, but he didnt tell me his adress, so i have some more time reviewing apt-get.org untill he tells me
[10:50] <siretart> :)
[10:50] <dholbach> apart from that: the guys were pretty active in tackling build problems
[10:50] <siretart> :)
[10:51] <dholbach> i'm really proud of everyone in #ubuntu-motu
[10:51] <dholbach> :-)
[10:51] <siretart> :)
[10:52] <siretart> I finally managed to write my wiki page.. ;)
[10:52] <dholbach> yes! :-)
[10:52] <siretart> is anything missing?
[10:53] <siretart> btw, is universe frozen for hoary? when does breezy start?
[10:54] <dholbach> on your wiki page?
[10:54] <dholbach> universe will not be frozen until hoary release
[10:54] <siretart> ah, ok
[10:54] <dholbach> (april, 8th)
[10:54] <dholbach> gladly
[10:54] <dholbach> :-)
[10:55] <dholbach> i guess breezy will start right after UDU, but i'm not sure at all
[10:55] <dholbach> thing will be pretty bumpy after the auto-sync, i guess
[10:55] <dholbach> your wiki page looks good to me
[10:55] <dholbach> you could add a list of packages you fixed
[10:55] <siretart> wuuhu :)
[10:55] <siretart> ah, ok, will do..
[10:56] <dholbach> so everyone will know you BELONG here
[10:56] <dholbach> :-)
[10:56] <dholbach> as a MOTU
[10:56] <siretart> btw, do you happen to know why cpp-2.95 is missing on ppc and amd64?
[10:56] <dholbach> not at all
[10:57] <siretart> hm
[10:57] <dholbach> i guess doko will be able to tell
[10:57] <siretart> shoudn't it be in main?
[10:57] <siretart> I think gcc-2.95 is quite a bit outdated, but still usable...
[10:57] <dholbach> i guess it's no longer supported
[10:58] <siretart> hm
[10:58] <dholbach> and we should start a plan of chucking it out when breezy is open
[10:58] <siretart> then it would be a good candidate for main
[10:58] <Mithrandir> gcc-2.95 doesn't work on amd64.
[10:58] <dholbach> there are some packages hard-depending on it, so we should tackle those first
[10:58] <siretart> I don't have an amd64 yet, so I have no clue about that..
[10:58] <siretart> ok
[11:00] <dholbach> hey jani
[11:00] <jani> hey dholbach
[11:00] <dholbach> jani: how's xfce coming along?
[11:00] <jani> I have it installed ;)
[11:00] <jani> there are still some helper apps to be built
[11:00] <dholbach> ah ok
[11:00] <dholbach> cool!
[11:00] <dholbach> :-)
[11:01] <jani> but not xfce4-core apps just things the xfce livecd guys added
[11:01] <jani> I wanted to see if crimsun is around to see how we share the load :)
[11:02] <doko> gcc-2.95 is in sarge/unstable to satisfy some very old build deps, i.e. 2.0 and 2.2 kernels. it shouldn't be used for anything else ...
[11:02] <jani> both crimsun's and my email address is banned from hoary-changes
[11:02] <jani> so we don't know what the state is (spamfilter)
[11:03] <siretart> doko: ah, thanks for explanation..
[11:04] <dholbach> jani: lists.ubuntu.com/archives/hoary-changes/2005-March/thread.html
[11:05] <jani> dholbach I mean hoary-changes does not _receive_ from us :)
[11:05] <jani> so noone sees what we upload :)
[11:05] <dholbach> arg yes, ok... of course
[11:06] <jani> we work under the veil of secrecy
[11:06] <dholbach> jani: good one... did you upload the kernel-image i gave you? ;-)
[11:06] <jani> yup
[11:06] <jani> all set :)
[11:06] <dholbach> rock :-)
[11:29] <dholbach> i guess debian/copyright: "freeware" isn't really redistributable
[11:31] <siretart> freeware is not excatly a license, I would consider that rather than intention..
[11:31] <siretart> s/than/as an/
[11:32] <siretart> example: one could consider sun java as freeware, because you can download it free of charge
[11:33] <dholbach> i have loads of doom-levels, fortune cookies, ... stuff here, that is either not building or has funny licenses
[11:34] <siretart> I think it would be best to ask the author under which terms he would allow redistribution, with pointer to bsd oder gpl license
[11:35] <dholbach> yeah... i'll do that for breezy
[11:35] <dholbach> atm i just look what builds and is ok
[11:35] <jani> dholbach how is the pat-ge.org progressing?
[11:35] <jani> apt-get
[11:35] <dholbach> www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/AptGetOrg
[11:35] <dholbach> i think i do quite well
[11:37] <jani> whow lot's of work there
[11:37] <dholbach> yup
[11:37] <jani> popcon is the guide?
[11:37] <dholbach> that's why i didnt help out with the build-lists
[11:38] <dholbach> jani: no... not for apt-get.org
[11:38] <jani> maybe there should have been a poll on ubuntu-users
[11:38] <dholbach> i checked each and every source repo
[11:38] <jani> there might be a lot of useless sw out there
[11:38] <dholbach> _source_
[11:38] <dholbach> yes
[11:38] <dholbach> i weeded out the woody backports
[11:38] <dholbach> and wrote a script that checked if we have the source packages already in
[11:39] <dholbach> and wrote mail templates to all those guys :-)
[11:39] <jani> :)
[11:39] <jani> spam eh?
[11:39] <dholbach> python ROCKS
[11:39] <dholbach> no... didnt send them out yet
[11:39] <jani> yep it sure does
[11:42] <dholbach> i only wished people would use pbuilder to check their packaging
[11:42] <jani> dholbach I don't (yet) ;P
[11:42] <jani> I did not yet figure out how to reuse apt-cache
[11:42] <jani> and want to do that before using pbuilder
[11:42] <dholbach> didn't want to blame you for anything
[11:42] <jani> but I have to otherwise it's too tedious and error prone
[11:42] <dholbach> but your packaging is more reliable
[11:43] <dholbach> :-)
[11:43] <jani> I know I just admitted it
[11:43] <jani> hello, I am jani and I do not use pbuilder, next ? ;)
[11:43] <dholbach> jani: good to have you around... even without pbuilder :-)
[11:43] <jani> ubuntu 1 point below mandrake for 6 months statistics onm distrowatch!
[11:43] <jani> thanks
[11:44] <jani> I have a feeling by the end of the year ubuntu will be almost synonimous to linux for many people
[11:44] <dholbach> hahaha... yes! :-)
[11:48] <jani> bbl
[11:48] <dholbach> bye
[11:50] <Treenaks> nnect, address 3
[11:50] <Treenaks> uhm.. right?
[11:51] <dholbach> hey koke
[11:51] <dholbach> koke: NICE nautilus patch
[11:51] <koke> dholbach: thanks :)
[11:51] <dholbach> koke: did you ask seb128 for inclusion?
[11:51] <Treenaks> I'm still of the opinion that big changes like that shouldn't be introduced during Deep Freeze
[11:51] <koke> dholbach: no, yesterday when I finished, he has already leave
[11:52] <koke> Treenaks: I agree
[11:52] <dholbach> ah ok
[11:52] <koke> I'd propose the change but defaulting to old behaviour
[11:52] <dholbach> hope you don't just leave it on your harddisk
[11:52] <dholbach> *ARGARGARG* 50MB NATIVE PACKAGE
[11:53] <dholbach> thank god it ftbfs
[11:54] <koke> dholbach: which package?!?
[11:54] <dholbach> flightgear-scenery-w130n40 from  http://jeroen.coekaerts.be/debian/
[11:55] <dholbach> unfortunately all those fortunes-* packages ftbfs too
[11:57] <dholbach> arg... they're all native
[11:58] <koke> w0w, flightgear is a huge package so the sceneries are
[11:58] <koke> dholbach: where do you see that these ftbfs??
[11:58] <koke> buildd logs??
[11:58] <dholbach> i try
[11:58] <dholbach> ALL
[11:58] <koke> are they already imported?
[11:59] <dholbach> no
[11:59] <dholbach> that's why i'm trying :-)
[11:59] <koke> hehe
[11:59] <dholbach> www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/AptGetOrg
[12:02] <Burgundavia> can I ask stupid question?
[12:02] <sabdfl> nup
[12:02] <Burgundavia> what is FTBFS
[12:02] <sabdfl> fail to build from source
[12:02] <Burgundavia> ah
[12:02] <Burgundavia> ok
[12:02] <Burgundavia> I knew it was a stupid questin
[12:03] <siretart> Burgundavia: not at all, I also think it is rather an unobvious acronym..
[12:04] <koke> I think I'm going to patch bsdgames ;)
[12:04] <siretart> good idea :)
[12:04] <koke> to add ftbfs and sabdfl to wtf :D
[12:05] <siretart> ;)
[12:07] <siretart> anyone here with an amd64? I think I fixed an ftbfs for amd64 (package libhdf4), but I cannot test it
[12:07] <siretart> I found a patch from the debian amd64 guys claiming to fix it..
[12:07] <dholbach> siretart: url?
[12:08] <koke> who manages planet.ubuntu?? jdub??
[12:08] <dholbach> koke: yes
[12:08] <koke> he told me about a month ago "do you want to be in planet...?" and I'm not yet there  :)
[12:09] <dholbach> mail him
[12:10] <siretart> dholbach: http://siretart.tauware.de/ubuntu-packages/libhdf4
[12:11] <siretart> upload just finished, builds on i386, so no regression
[12:11] <dholbach> wow that's a patch :-)
[12:11] <siretart> yeah. THAT wasn't my fault ;)
[12:12] <siretart> there seems to be some scientific packages depending on that lib, I found it investigation some build failures which led me to that lib (never heard before about it)
[12:13] <siretart> googling pointed me to a patch from debian-amd64 team. would be very nice if the patch would work
[12:13] <dholbach> siretart: could you try to    dpkg-source -x *.dsc  on your source package?
[12:13] <dholbach> i get this one: tar: Read 8192 bytes from -
[12:15] <siretart> hae?! same here.. investigating..
[12:16] <koke> to enable dpatch in a package, the patch-stamp goes into build or build-stamp??
[12:16] <koke> I always forget that :(
[12:17] <dholbach> koke: i forgot as well :-/
[12:17] <koke> xD
[12:17] <siretart> dholbach: the same on the original source package,
[12:17] <siretart> dholbach: package seems to be extracted ok though..
[12:17] <dholbach> siretart: ok
[12:19] <dholbach> siretart: looks good, although the package could do with a shlibs file as well
[12:19] <dholbach> oh sorry
[12:20] <dholbach> seems not to be your fault (or of the package maintainer)
[12:20] <ogra> morning
[12:21] <dholbach> hey ogra
[12:23] <siretart> huhu ogra
[12:50] <koke> I have bsdgames patched :D
[12:51] <dholbach> hahahahaaa :-)
[12:51] <dholbach> sabdfl will like that
[12:51] <dholbach> ;-)
[12:52] <sabdfl> :-)
[12:52] <dholbach> sabdfl: then you will receive 50 mails less each day, hm? :-)
[12:53] <sabdfl> no, I'll *read* 50 mails less each day :-)
[12:53] <dholbach> hehe :-)
[12:54] <koke> I don't know if my key is already in the ring, dholbach do you want to upload??
[12:55] <dholbach> koke: sure
[12:57] <sabdfl> is there a way to use sed or vi to change all the occurrences of a string into something else in a whole bunch of files?
[12:58] <koke> sabdfl: perl -pi -e 's/foo/bar/' file1 file2 ...
[12:58] <koke> not sure if that works
[12:58] <koke> do some tests first :D
[12:58] <Treenaks> sed -i -e 's/a/b/' file1 file22
[12:58] <sabdfl> ok koke :-)
[12:58] <Treenaks> shuold work too
[12:58] <dholbach> koke: done
[12:58] <sabdfl> yay for revision control
[12:59] <koke> that was my very frien for the python transition :D
[12:59] <koke> grep -r "2\.3" ...
[01:01] <jani> nit: both perl and sed though should add global in case something appears on the same line s/foo/bar/g
[01:01] <jani> appears more than once I meant
[01:02] <koke> jani: sure, I forgot the /g
[01:03] <jani> do you guys think a patch to dch to know about ubuntu versioning would be in order?
[01:04] <jani> cause I got my local dch modified
[01:04] <jani> saves a few keystrokes and helps geratly in scripting
[01:04] <jani> greatly
[01:04] <ogra> jani, rather call it uch then, we still are a platform for DDs :)
[01:05] <jani> well it works with plain debian versioning as well of course :)
[01:05] <ogra> oh, its KI code :)
[01:05] <siretart> alias uch='dch -D hoary' sounds reasonable
[01:05] <ogra> s/KI/AI
[01:05] <siretart> oh, with ubuntu versioning increment.. hmm i see..
[01:06] <jani> not just that siretart but in generating new revision number make 2.3-1ubunut1 instead of 2.3-2 when the last is 2.3-1
[01:06] <jani> ogra you lost me with KI AI :)
[01:06] <dholbach> siretart: uploaded
[01:06] <siretart> woohoo. lets see if it fixes some more amd64 packages :)
[01:06] <ogra> jani, Artificial Intelligence :)
[01:07] <jani> ah, nah just regexp stuff ;)
[01:07] <ogra> jani, thats near ;)
[01:07] <jani> I thought AI != BM
[01:07] <jani> black magic
[01:07] <ogra> vodoo
[01:09] <jani> seriously ogra, do you think it'd harm anything if we had that changed, to handle our case?
[01:09] <ogra> nope
[01:09] <ogra> if it works like you described i dont see any harm...
[01:09] <jani> ok, I'll ask the devscripts maintainer over in devel what they think
[01:11] <dholbach> after building and reviewing 70 packages I get WTOOMUCHCRACK - i'm out on the flea market - see you later ;-)
[01:12] <ogra> ciao dholbach, nice work :)
[01:12] <ogra> enjoy the spring
[01:12] <dholbach> ogra: will do :-)))))
[01:13] <siretart> cu dholbach, have fun! :
[01:20] <sabdfl> Treenaks, koke: you guys rock, the sed -i -e thing worked perfectly
[01:32] <tseng> bye dholbach.
[01:33] <jani> tseng how's mono packaging going?
[01:33] <tseng> its fine
[01:33] <jani> are you going for 1.1.x ?
[01:33] <tseng> it works but its not cleaned up
[01:33] <tseng> i dont think hoary is a great idea
[01:33] <tseng> it wont go in for a few days, which would leave no time to fix stuff
[01:33] <ogra> so no beagle ?
[01:34] <siretart> tseng: do you think that a backport for mono 1.1 for hoary would be feasible?
[01:34] <ogra> siretart, please avoid that word in here
[01:34] <tseng> i think backports are bad.
[01:34] <siretart> ogra: sorry
[01:34] <ogra> heh
[01:35] <jani> I still think it would be nice if universe remained open after hoary release for NEW packages only
[01:35] <tseng> ...
[01:35] <ogra> jani, we have breezy for that...
[01:35] <jani> no regressions, but no need for some backports either
[01:35] <jani> ogra, yes but you know how poeple are :)
[01:35] <ogra> jani, there is no need at all for backports
[01:36] <tseng> there will always be one piece of software that comes out after freeze
[01:36] <tseng> and goes in the next release
[01:36] <ogra> jani, and if i see how they are done (~ in the version number etc) i start crying
[01:36] <jani> ogra, I agree that's wny such semi-closed hoary uni would make many backports unneeded
[01:36] <siretart> is there some pointer to policy for hoary-updates? what goes in there for universe?
[01:36] <tseng> people who want a "stable system" and "bleeding edge' are on their own
[01:36] <ogra> siretart, nothing...
[01:36] <tseng> and probably hitting too much pipe
[01:36] <jani> it's not about bleeding-edge
[01:37] <ogra> siretart, its a leftover of an idea afaik
[01:37] <jani> no beagle at all vs beagle is not about bleeding edge but about having smt or not
[01:37] <siretart> ogra: huh? whats hoary-updates for then?
[01:37] <tseng> hoary-updates is for data loss bugs and calander updates
[01:37] <jani> I don't want already existing sw in universe touched either
[01:37] <ogra> jani, it is....if you cant wait 6 months tfor software to stabilize, its about bleeding edge
[01:38] <jani> ogra,tseng it's not all black and white :)
[01:38] <tseng> its is here :P
[01:38] <ogra> siretart, it was an idea for warty....
[01:38] <tseng> its in or its out
[01:38] <jani> freezes do tend do categorize software in these two categories but real world is colorful
[01:38] <tseng> like i said, software either makes the freeze or it doesnt
[01:38] <ogra> jani, its our release plan...
[01:39] <tseng> black, white
[01:39] <siretart> ah, I understand, its similar to volatile.debian.org, yes?
[01:39] <jani> but until we have better (with sound engineering foundation) methodolgies I guess we're stuck with it :)
[01:39] <ogra> jani, and 6 months are not to long to wait for well tested stuff
[01:39] <Burgundavia> night all
[01:39] <ogra> night Burgundavia
[01:39] <tseng> bye Burgundavia.
[01:40] <jani> ogra, tseng people _will_ make backports even if we don't like it and users _will_ try those pesky repos anyway
[01:41] <tseng> those users will break their upgrade path
[01:41] <ogra> jani, yep, sad but true.... the bad thing is that they brak a lot...
[01:41] <jani> it would be nicer if we had more endorsed aletrnatives so we avoid confusion and bugreports we have nothing to do with
[01:41] <tseng> and we'll tell them why they wont do it again
[01:41] <tseng> yeah dude, why dont we just package everything we can find
[01:41] <jani> and so we waste our time because of them
[01:41] <ogra> jani, nope, the right way is to convice the users like tseng said
[01:41] <tseng> then we wont have to worry about it
[01:41] <jani> convince users ;) where do you live ?
[01:42] <tseng> we'll call that the "apt-get.org argument"
[01:42] <jani> tseng, the plan is to package everything we can
[01:42] <jani> I know about it and I am not refering to every piece of junk
[01:42] <tseng> my personal plan is to make the best packages I can
[01:42] <ogra> jani, we dont waste time on them....its up to the backport people to tell them how to fix it....and we get more and more users following our path through their experience
[01:42] <tseng> with no regard to quantity
[01:43] <jani> but tseng I would find it way nicer that if you can get beagle and mono 1.1 working in 2 weeks after the release but have a way of putting them in universe without introducing regressions since it is all NEW software it is way nicer for users
[01:43] <jani> tseng, ack
[01:43] <tseng> whats new software?
[01:44] <jani> beagle
[01:44] <tseng> mono, dbus-mono, monodoc
[01:44] <jani> we dont have it yet do we?
[01:44] <tseng> gtk-sharp
[01:44] <tseng> i need to touch all of those
[01:44] <tseng> and more.
[01:44] <ogra> jani, but then we could stop making releases at all....
[01:44] <tseng> then muine, f-spot blam did I make my point yet?
[01:44] <tseng> none of that is NEW
[01:44] <jani> tseng, I didn't know you have to touch other mono stuff
[01:44] <jani> in that case I rest my case :)
[01:44] <ogra> jani, if we set ourselves a deadline we have to cope with it....
[01:45] <jani> ogra, I know
[01:45] <jani> it's a misunderstaning
[01:45] <jani> I thought beagle and mono-1.1 take a lot of time to package and test but that's all
[01:45] <jani> didn't know they imply touching so many mono libraries
[01:45] <tseng> ive spent hours for the last two days touching every piece
[01:46] <tseng> jani: they are all currently installing in a non-standard path
[01:46] <tseng> it needs to be undone is a certain order for the deptree
[01:46] <jani> are you _the_ mono team ?
[01:46] <tseng> there is a debian mono team
[01:47] <tseng> who is seemingly too busy to do this job in the time frame id like
[01:47] <jani> ok my argument wrt open for NEW only still stands, it's just that it doesn't apply to mono stuff :(
[01:48] <tseng> then we'll agree to disagree
[01:48] <jani> fair enough
[01:48] <siretart> I'm looking for something eat, bbl!
[01:48] <tseng> i dont want to be an ass, just i have different ideas on the direction of MOTU
[01:48] <jani> you're not an ass I saw your hackergotchi :)
[01:49] <jani> sure I understand
[01:49] <tseng> which is less adding every piece of software to coddle users, and more making the stuff we do have nice.
[01:50] <jani> my proposal by applying only to NEW packages is orthogonal and caters for making our stuff nice _and_ coddling users :)
[01:51] <jani> however it is a 'what if' I don't care that much
[01:51] <ogra> jani, its not arguable....if we freeze, we freeze for all parts of the distro...
[01:51] <jani> ogra, I agree with freezing I only want to redefine the meaning of freeze ;)
[01:51] <ogra> jani, we had this discussion in the last meeting
[01:52] <jani> ogra, that was about uni being open to all
[01:52] <jani> not just NEW packages
[01:52] <jani> I wa sin that meeting
[01:52] <jani> was in
[01:52] <ogra> jani, in any case freeze is freeze and not arguable
[02:00] <jani> OT: any way in the new gnome open dialog to enter the file path by hand?
[02:00] <tseng> Ctrl+L
[02:00] <jani> cool thanks!
[02:00] <tseng> np.
[02:00] <jani> wow it even does completion
[02:00] <tseng> works in nautilus too.
[02:01] <jani> I only use gnome open in firefox, I am using xfce
[02:01] <tseng> ok.
[02:25] <dholbach> re
[02:38] <koke> hey, I know how to mobblog now :D
[02:38] <koke> http://movil.amedias.org/post.php/2
[02:41] <dholbach> you know what?
[02:45] <koke> dholbach: post in a blog by my cell phone
[02:45] <koke> actually by email
[02:46] <dholbach> i never thought one could need that ;-)
[02:48] <dholbach> but what i already thought about was waking my box up from my mobile :-)
[03:24] <koke> dholbach: what's the policy for apt-get.org's ftbfs packages
[03:24] <koke> fix the package, notify upstream, discard it,...?
[03:25] <dholbach> koke: atm nothing
[03:25] <dholbach> koke: because we won't have time
[03:25] <dholbach> koke: but for next release, we can try to contact them and get them working in here
[03:25] <dholbach> :-)
[03:30] <koke> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/l/lxdoom/1.4.4-9/lxdoom_1.4.4-9_20050327-0327-amd64-failed <-- quite strange
[03:31] <koke> I guess builders will try again soon, won't they?
[03:32] <koke> w0w, builders are crazy:
[03:32] <koke>  /build/buildd/akregator-1.0-beta8/./configure: line 21: /dev/null: Permission denied
[03:32] <koke> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/a/akregator/1.0-beta8-2/akregator_1.0-beta8-2_20050327-0910-i386-failed
[03:34] <motaboy> koke: akragato is now in kdepim 3.4
[03:34] <motaboy> s/akragot/akregator
[03:34] <koke> hmmm, to morgue then
[03:34] <dholbach> yes
[03:35] <motaboy> koke: there's an alone versions for systems with <=kde3.3
[03:35] <dholbach> ok... 3 pbuilders running, i guess i can go a bit out again ;-)
[03:35] <koke> motaboy: but I guess the binary akregator package from kdepim can run standalone...
[03:35] <koke> dholbach: not a bad idea at all :)
[03:36] <koke> time for a coffee?
[03:36] <motaboy> koke: yeah.
[03:37] <koke> dholbach: my firefox takes about a minute to load UniversePriorityList
[03:37] <koke> should I split in two?
[03:37] <dholbach> hrm
[03:38] <dholbach> i think it's hard enough to keep all of the lists under control atm :-/
[03:38] <dholbach> i'd rather leave it as it is
[03:39] <koke> maybe a wiki is not the best option :)
[03:39] <koke> and plone is very powerful but I don't like the resulting html
[03:45] <siretart> koke: I already fixed lxdoom a few days ago, problem was some spurios "extern int errno;". This is http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=274929 btw
[03:58] <dholbach> bye koke
[04:01] <dholbach> alright... i'm out for a bit as well
[04:12] <bddebian> Morning
[04:24] <crimsun> jani: yep, I'm around
[04:25] <crimsun> jani: currently debugging an xfdesktop4 bug with the root menu
[04:27] <crimsun> (missing symbol)
[05:09] <jani> I'm back too crimsun
[05:10] <jani> I saw a bug related to the menu
[05:10] <jani> I suppose that's what you're reffering too
[05:10] <motaboy> I've got a question on cdbs.
[05:10] <jani> I wonder why mousepad did not build
[05:10] <motaboy> If I use the kde.mk rule, then dh_install is called different times for every package.
[05:11] <motaboy> in this way if I had the --list-missing option, it will complain for the uninstalled files from the other package...
[05:11] <motaboy> So I don't know what's the right way to look for missing files :(
[05:11] <motaboy> s/had/add
[05:12] <jani> sorry I know nothing about cdbs
[05:13] <motaboy> jani: thanks anyway. :D
[05:13] <lamont> koke: the dev/null permissions issues were part of the reason that I did the mass-giveback of hoary building/depwait/failed stuff.
[05:14] <crimsun> jani: yeah, it's annoying :(  (RE: menu)
[05:14] <crimsun> it's a missing "quit" symbol
[05:15] <jani> do you think it got 'lost' when building on ubuntu?
[05:15] <jani> when I installed from os-works it worked
[05:15] <crimsun> it's possible, since xfce4 has a fairly strict build order
[05:16] <crimsun> but the actual exiting is fine, since we can both quit our Xfce4 sessions
[05:16] <jani> hmm can we trigger a rebuild without uploading first?just curious
[05:17] <crimsun> lamont would be able to
[05:17] <jani>  then we'd have to apt-get and retry
[05:17] <lamont> jani: or tell me which packages to kick..
[05:17] <lamont> mind you, better build-deps would solve that as well...
[05:18] <jani> lamont, we're not sure it's the build deps but it could be
[05:18] <crimsun> the b-d are all versioned high enough to require >= 4.2
[05:18] <crimsun> so none of the older stuff is getting pulled in
[05:19] <jani> right
[05:19] <ogra> crimsun, you talked about the order....i think lamont means that
[05:19] <lamont> jani: actually, all of xfce on i386 is either installed or uploaded, atm.
[05:19] <jani> I wonder if gdm could have anythiong to do with it
[05:19] <jani> lamont, right
[05:20] <lamont> even on ia64. :-)
[05:20] <jani> btw lamont any clue why mousepad did not build? http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/m/mousepad/0.2.0-1/
[05:20] <jani> it installs the package it needs but does not find its .pc file
[05:20] <jani> strange
[05:21] <crimsun> jani: we don't have such a package
[05:21] <jani> libxfcegui4-dev is the package and it's apparently there but libxfcegui4-1.0.pc
[05:21] <crimsun> there's no .0
[05:21] <jani> dpkg -L libxfcegui4-dev |grep pc
[05:22] <crimsun> need to fix debian/control to b-d on the correct package iirc
[05:22] <crimsun> I looked at it last night but was too tired to fix it
[05:22] <lamont> note that mousepad is currently 'Needs-Build' on all 4 architectures
[05:22] <jani> but Ii builds for me locally
[05:22] <jani> what does needs-build mean? that it failed so far
[05:22] <lamont> jani: in a clean chroot?
[05:23] <jani> lamont, nope I admit
[05:23] <lamont> jani: it means that the buildd's will give it another shot
[05:23] <crimsun> oh, I see
[05:23] <crimsun> hmm, it should build fine
[05:23] <jani> but pkg-config finds that file if I do the step it chokes on manually
[05:23] <lamont> Needs-Build is the state that buildds' take it _from_
[05:24] <jani> but any idea why it can fail like that if it looks like(at least to me)  pkg-config should have succeeded
[05:24] <crimsun> oooh, wait a sec
[05:25] <crimsun> configure script is broken
[05:25] <crimsun> did you say it built locally on yours?
[05:25] <jani> yup
[05:25] <crimsun> in pbuilder?
[05:25] <jani> nope
[05:26] <jani> is the check wrong?
[05:26] <crimsun> chroot or on your system?
[05:26] <diamond> morning.
[05:26] <jani> my system
[05:26] <crimsun> I believe the check is wrong; it's looking for libxfcegui4-1.0 when it should be looking for libxfcegui4-3
[05:27] <jani> but libxfcegui4-1.0 is the name of the .pc file
[05:27] <Mithrandir> the check is correct.
[05:27] <crimsun> I thought configure prints out the binary name, not the .pc file
[05:27] <crimsun> gah, /me apt-gets source
[05:28] <jani> yes it confised me too
[05:28] <koke> hey, some days ago I fixed usbview, but I'm not sure if I used the best method
[05:28] <koke> http://www.amedias.org/~koke/misc/usbview_1.0-6_to_1.0-6ubuntu1.diff
[05:28] <koke> give me your opinions
[05:28] <koke> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/u/usbview/1.0-6/usbview_1.0-6_20050328-0655-powerpc-failed
[05:30] <lamont> configure.in:4: your implementation of AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE comes from an
[05:30] <lamont> configure.in:4: old Automake version.  You should recreate aclocal.m4
[05:30] <lamont> autocrap version issue
[05:30] <Mithrandir> you probably want to build-dep on automake-1.7 or something
[05:31] <Mithrandir> else, you get 1.4, which is ancient.
[05:32] <lamont> Mithrandir: automaken gets you 1.8, automake gets you whatever apt decides to give you, prolly 1.4
[05:35] <jani> so we should add automake explicitely to the build-deps?it's not there currently is it a build-essential?
[05:35] <HostingGeek> f-spot doesn't have an menu image or is it just me?
[05:36] <crimsun> jani: testing a workaround for mousepad
[05:36] <jani> ok
[05:44] <HostingGeek> ?
[05:44] <koke> HostingGeek: you mean a icon in the gnome menu??
[05:45] <HostingGeek> koke: yes
[05:46] <tseng> it does for me
[05:47] <koke> me too
[05:47] <HostingGeek> tseng: not for me... ;(
[05:47] <tseng> well you're a tool
[05:47] <tseng> so dunno what to tell ya.
[05:47] <HostingGeek> i got that default icon for anything missing an icon
[05:51] <koke> HostingGeek: which version of f-spot??
[05:51] <Amaranth> HostingGeek: blam! showed up without an icon for me too until i started a new session
[05:52] <Amaranth> HostingGeek: log out then back in
[05:52] <koke> http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/gnome/sources/f-spot/0.0/f-spot-0.0.10.changes
[05:52] <koke> we are in 0.0.12 now
[05:53] <koke> the icon has been there for a long time
[05:54] <Amaranth> * f-spot.desktop.in.in: add file for .desktop menu-spec support
[05:54] <Amaranth> i think he is saying the entry is there but the icon for it isn't
[06:47] <crimsun> jani: not sure regarding mousepad, and I'm pressed for time atm.  I'll work on the menu problem this afternoon.
[06:47] <jani> ok I'll look at mousead then
[06:47] <crimsun> great, thanks
[06:47] <jani> same here :)
[06:51] <koke> http://www.amedias.org/~koke/misc/usbview_1.0-6_to_1.0-6ubuntu1.diff <-- this looks better ??
[06:52] <koke> package is at http://www.amedias.org/~koke/debian/hoary/ if anyone wants to upload
[06:57] <jani> lamont can you kick xterminal please?
[06:57] <jani> if kicking means trigger a new build that is :)
[07:08] <herve> heya!
[07:09] <dholbach> hey herve
[07:11] <diamond> laters
[07:19] <lamont> jani: enough people use 'kick' with enough different meanings that I really take it to mean 'go check on this package and make it try again'
[07:19] <jani> I just heard dit thrown around
[07:20] <lamont> would be nicer if people said give back foo, pretend foo is available, clear the dep-wait for foo, etc./
[07:20] <lamont> jani: exactly.
[07:20] <lamont> and the way it's being used in this channel, it means any one of the 3 things I just said
[07:21] <jani> so if you do not make it explicitely when would a rebuild take place?
[07:21] <Mithrandir> lamont: I think people often just see "hasn't built yet" and doesn't know whether it's dep-wait or something else.
[07:21] <lamont> right
[07:22] <jani> xterminal depended on libexo and failed to find it but now libexo is in
[07:22] <lamont> I haven't insisted on precise terminology here, just bitched about it. :)
[07:35] <lamont> jani: build depends are broken: checking for XML::Parser... configure: error: XML::Parser perl module is required for intltool
[07:35] <jani> xterminal?
[07:35] <lamont> jani: yes
[07:36] <lamont> needs an explict build-dep on libxml-parser-perl, and possibly a bug filed with debian
[07:36] <lamont> if they didn't already fix that
[07:36] <jani> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/x/xterminal/0.2.4-1/xterminal_0.2.4-1_20050402-0625-i386-failed
[07:36] <jani> is this the link?
[07:37] <jani> oh I see other archs are ahead of i386
[07:37] <jani> I'll look at fixing it
[07:38] <lamont> janc: it's still needs-build on i386.  building (==failed?) on the other 3
[07:39] <lamont> hrm.. python-kde3 probably needs python2.4 love
[07:39] <lamont> s/janc:/jani/
[07:41] <jani> aha so needs-build means it is waiting for build-deps?
[07:47] <koke_shower> have to go
[08:59] <lamont> jani: needs-build means that it's waiting for a free buildd
[09:00] <lamont> dep-wait means that it's waiting for build-deps to be in the archive
[09:00] <jani> ok thanks, and where do you see in which state is a certain package
[10:14] <Riddell> did anything come of the idea to have updates to hoary?  (like point gnome and kde releases?)
[10:15] <dholbach> Riddell: i'm quite sure the opinion is "release is release"
[10:15] <herve> I remember something like that too
[10:15] <Riddell> dholbach: I definatly mind reading some idea for an ubuntu-updates repository
[10:16] <dholbach> it exists, but it was for critical stuff only IIRC
[10:16] <Riddell> security of course
[10:17] <dholbach> hrm
[10:17] <dholbach> well, ask mdz/jdub, they will know for sure
[10:17] <Riddell> hmm yes
[10:19] <herve> ho good
[10:19] <herve> a source package wih {arch} and .arch-ids
[10:19] <herve> woohoo...
[10:20] <dholbach> herve: you never saw apt-get.org-packges :-)
[10:22] <herve> you're supposed to motivate me to work on this, not afraid me!
[10:22] <herve> "install: cannot change owner and/or group of `debian/archway': Operation not permitted
[10:22] <herve> "
[10:22] <herve> it needs to install -o root -g root
[10:23] <herve> am I supposed to run debuild as real root...
[10:23] <dholbach> *argl*
[10:27] <herve> I understand its point of view
[10:27] <herve> but I thought dpkg was doing this at install time
[11:49] <dholbach> enough apt-get.org for today