[12:09] <motaboy> Dunno. Probably they are talking about this on some channels.
[12:09] <cartel_> question where do ubuntu get their names for releases?
[12:10] <motaboy> Riddell: I got that system preferences has some file conflicting with kcontrol
[12:11] <motaboy> Riddell: plus when I launch it I get an empty window,only the bar, but show all is insensible.
[12:12] <Riddell> cartel_: mark shuttleworth makes them up depending on his mood
[12:12] <Riddell> motaboy: that'll be xdg menu strangeness, should be eaily fixable with some playing about
[12:13] <motaboy> Riddell: do you have any hint? :D
[12:14] <Riddell> motaboy: what's the conflicting file?
[12:15] <motaboy> Riddell: /usr/share/applications/kde/kcmfontinst.desktop  /usr/share/desktop-directories/kde-settings-system.directory  /usr/share/desktop-directories/kde-settings-power.directory
[12:18] <cartel_> so whats better.. arch or svn?
[12:18] <Riddell> cartel_: baz
[12:18] <Riddell> motaboy: does it work if you overwrite those files?
[12:18] <cartel_> Riddell: bazaar?
[12:18] <Riddell> cartel_: that's the baby
[12:18] <cartel_> Riddell: can i install this on debian woody?
[12:19] <motaboy> Riddell: no. I think the problem is in the xdg menu implementation
[12:19] <motaboy> Riddell: Probably I have to generate some files from this ones?
[12:19] <Riddell> motaboy: it's definatly worked fine for me before, but it took some shuffling around of the files, I assumed he would have fixed that by now
[12:19] <cartel_> Riddell: installing now
[12:19] <Riddell> I'll compile it and see what happens
=== motaboy reads the xdg specs.
=== cartel_ looks for a baz howto
[12:22] <cartel_> is there an arch pserver? or it does everything over ssh?
[12:26] <Riddell> cartel_: it can use webdav too
[12:32] <Riddell> motaboy: are you going to restore that page or do you want me to do it?
[12:32] <motaboy> Riddell: I'm unsure on how to proceed...
[12:32] <motaboy> Riddell: do you have a copy of the page?
[12:32] <Riddell> motaboy: nope, although somewhere in the 7000 e-mails in my inboxes are all the changes made to it since it started
[12:33] <uniq> hello gentlemen.
[12:33] <uniq> any idea what's up with the wiki? 
[12:33] <motaboy> Riddell: I have an unformatted version. Do you want that I send it to you ?
[12:33] <motaboy> uniq: no :( 
[12:33] <Riddell> motaboy: yeah cool
[12:35] <motaboy> Riddell: sent
[12:42] <motaboy> It's getting late. Night All!
[12:43] <apokryphos> 'night
[12:44] <apokryphos> Riddell: quick q if I may: is there a quick way to resolve dependencies (and their versions etc) when making a .deb? Someone suggested pbuilder, but not quite sure if it should be used -- seems related to apt or the .deb src.
[12:45] <motaboy> apokryphos: there's also sbuild that it's the one used by buildd
[12:46] <apokryphos> motaboy: cool; how do I use it?
[12:46] <motaboy> apokryphos: I'm not very expert again
[12:46] <motaboy> apokryphos: but I setted up a chrooted environment
[12:46] <apokryphos> Yup, just did that with pbuilder...
[12:46] <apokryphos> *for
[12:46] <motaboy> apokryphos: then I launch "sbuild -v packagename.dsc"
[12:47] <motaboy> apokryphos: but you can use also inside your root
[12:47] <apokryphos> motaboy: hmm, I'm trying to make a .deb from the package source (not the deb one), so that's what should be used?
[12:47] <motaboy> apokryphos: and it will remove the packages that it has installed at the end
[12:48] <motaboy> apokryphos: it will resolve and install the deps. 
[12:48] <apokryphos> dsc is stuff from the deb src, isn't it? (just getting to grips).
[12:48] <motaboy> apokryphos: yes
[12:48] <Riddell> apokryphos: dsc is the description file of the source
[12:49] <apokryphos> Riddell: the "control" file in debian/ ?
[12:50] <apokryphos> (the one you get from dh_name)
[12:50] <apokryphos> *dh_make
[12:51] <apokryphos> motaboy: slightly confused :). Where is the .dsc, then? Or do I have to make one...?
[12:52] <motaboy> apokryphos: is it a source file made by another one, or is it made by you?
[12:52] <Riddell> apokryphos: debuild -S  will make a .dsc as well as a .diff (and there should already be a .orig as well)
[12:52] <apokryphos> yup, got the .orgi.tar.gz so far
[12:53] <apokryphos> *orig
[12:53] <Riddell> apokryphos:   Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}  will magically add the correct depends for things which need C/C++ libraries
[12:54] <apokryphos> Riddell: to clarify, I should just run Debuild -S in the source directory? 
[12:54] <motaboy> Riddell: Now I'll go bed. I'll try to understand the systempreferences problem tommorow.
[12:54] <motaboy> CUAll.
[12:54] <Riddell> motaboy: guid nicht
[12:54] <apokryphos> bye; thanks for the help :)
[12:55] <Riddell> apokryphos: yes,  debuild  will make the .debs  debuild -S  will make the source  (.diff/orig and .dsc)
[12:55] <uniq> apokryphos: i use a chroot, made by debootstrap, in which i build packages with debuid, or sometimes dpkg-buildpackage.
[12:55] <uniq> bah.. s/debiud/debuild
=== apokryphos first .deb build :P
[12:57] <apokryphos> and the shlibs goes in... ? The "depends" part in "control" file?
[12:57] <uniq> read the new maintainer guide :)
[12:57] <apokryphos> uniq: which one? Link?
[12:57] <uniq> apt-get install maint-guide
[12:57] <apokryphos> right
[12:58] <Riddell> apokryphos: yes, Depends in control
[12:58] <Riddell> apokryphos: what are you packaging?
[12:58] <Riddell> there should be a template package to use
[12:58] <uniq> and maybe developers-reference too.. if you're patient.
[12:58] <apokryphos> krename :D
[01:00] <apokryphos> Riddell: what exactly would that be? :)
[01:00] <Riddell> apokryphos: krename is a C++ program?
[01:00] <Riddell> http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/
[01:01] <Riddell> http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-first.en.html#s-dh_make
[01:01] <Riddell> dh_make is the baby
[01:02] <apokryphos> Yeah, it's C++
[01:02] <apokryphos> Yeah, was reading that guide...
[01:09] <apokryphos> Riddell: debuild -S seems to go well, but get an error with signing the changes: gpg: skipped `Francis Giannaros <francisg@gmail.com>': secret key not available
[01:10] <apokryphos> should I be using something else? 
[01:10] <Riddell> apokryphos: do you have a gpg key installed?
[01:10] <apokryphos> no ;)
[01:10] <Riddell> that'll be it then
[01:25] <apokryphos> Not sure if I'm doing things in the right order here. Do I first configure all things in debian/, then debuild -S, then debuild?
[01:27] <cartel_> arrgh, kdevelop doesnt support arch
[01:28] <Riddell> apokryphos: sort out debian  then if you want .debs  use  debuild and if you want  source  "packages" use debuild -S
[01:29] <cartel_> :'(
[01:45] <uniq> gnite guys.
[01:46] <apokryphos> 'night
[01:47] <lamont> validate-posix-sh: warning; cannot verify correctness of "debian/xfree86-common.postrm" with ash; shell not available
[01:47] <lamont> stupid xorg
=== lamont would beat daniels with a shell, but THERE AREN'T ANY IN THE CHROOT
[01:48] <lamont> :-_
[02:00] <apokryphos> Riddell: aren't man pages important? As far as I can see the guide seems to imply that I would have to write/edit the templates :-O
[02:03] <Riddell> apokryphos: most programs are expected to come with their own man pages if they need them
[02:03] <Riddell> apokryphos: but otherwise write your own (in docbook) and add the appropriate bits to rules
[02:05] <apokryphos> Riddell: sorry, that should have been "imported", not important, ergh. If the program has its respective man page, would that be pulled in automatically?
[02:06] <Riddell> apokryphos: they'll be installed normally then you add them to the install file in debian/ like any other file
[02:35] <cartel_> poor daniels
[02:43] <apokryphos> Riddell: did I miss something and it was built for only i386? In control it's specified "Architecture: any".
[02:43] <Riddell> apokryphos: presumably you only built it on i386
[02:43] <apokryphos> Can only build on the architecture you're on.. understandable.
[02:46] <Riddell> apokryphos: that package works for me
[02:46] <apokryphos> cool :)
[02:46] <apokryphos> Riddell: shall I send any other stuff over?
[02:46] <Riddell> apokryphos: add it to https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUNewPackages
[02:47] <apokryphos> please be sure to tell me with any things that might need to be altered with it :P
[02:47] <apokryphos> Ok, sure.
[02:47] <Riddell> apokryphos: include a link to .deb and sour
[02:47] <Riddell> apokryphos: include a link to .deb and sources
[02:47] <apokryphos> Riddell: the tar.gz or original tar.bz2?
[02:48] <Riddell> apokryphos: the .orig .diff and .dsc
[02:48] <apokryphos> Ok; no problem.
[02:49] <Riddell> apokryphos: you need to name the orig in the style of  krecipes_0.7.1.orig.tar.gz
[02:49] <Riddell> apokryphos: then run debuild -S and it'll make the .diff and dsc
[02:51] <apokryphos> right; just remove the evil 1
[02:52] <apokryphos> Though, Riddell, I do already have a .diff and dsc
[02:52] <apokryphos> I followed the guide and ended up using dpkg-buildpackage
[02:52] <Riddell> debuild just calls dpkg-buildpackages, but it checks dependencies first which is handy
[02:53] <Riddell> if you don't have a .orig then the .diff contains everything, which is not the way to do it
[02:53] <apokryphos> I have both. Just had to rename krename_3.0.3.orig.tar.gz1
[02:55] <apokryphos> debuild refuses to build with an orig.tar.gz there
[02:55] <Riddell> what does it say?
[02:56] <apokryphos> dpkg-source: failure: unable to create `krename_3.0.3.orig.tar.gz.tmp-nest': File exists
[02:57] <Riddell> apokryphos: .orig is in directory above the source?
[02:57] <Riddell> apokryphos: if krename_3.0.3.orig.tar.gz.tmp-nest exists then remove it and run debuild again
[02:58] <apokryphos> ok
[02:59] <apokryphos> Successfully signed dsc and changes files
[03:00] <Riddell> groovy
[03:09] <apokryphos> Riddell: that process seemed to lose the orig..
[03:09] <Riddell> apokryphos: it deleted it?
[03:09] <apokryphos> Yes
[03:10] <Riddell> very strange
[03:10] <Riddell> well slap whatever you have on a server and I'll take a keek
[03:10] <apokryphos> Is it perhaps down to the fact that I changed the name? Took off that 1
[03:11] <Riddell> don't see any reason for a 1 being there
[03:11] <apokryphos> heh. Ok, uploading
[03:16] <apokryphos> Riddell: http://www.youmortals.com/stuff/ubuntu/krename/ Sorry for the hassle -- really appreciate this. :)
[03:22] <Riddell> dpkg-source: cannot represent change to krename_3.0.3.orig.tar.gz1: binary file contents changed
[03:22] <Riddell> something funny going on there
[03:24] <Riddell> apokryphos: you have a file called krename_3.0.3.orig.tar.gz1 inside your source directory
[03:24] <Riddell> that's not right
[03:25] <apokryphos> Argh
[03:25] <apokryphos> I might have actually moved it there when trying to rename
[03:27] <Riddell> the level of conversation in #kubuntu is starting to tend towards that of #ubuntu :)
[03:27] <Riddell> still no desktop flame wars yet
[03:28] <apokryphos> It's actually partly my fault
[03:28] <apokryphos> the idiot in there (Gangster') is an "acuintence" of mine
[03:28] <apokryphos> found out I use IRC and here he is. Ergh.
[03:29] <Riddell> :)
[03:32] <apokryphos> Riddell: but I should be able to still use the orig there, eh? Does the debuild -S alter it at all?
[03:32] <Riddell> apokryphos: put the orig in the directory above the source
[03:32] <Riddell> debuild -S won't alter the orig
[03:32] <Riddell> but it will use it
[03:33] <apokryphos> so I better rebuild...
[03:34] <Riddell> yep
[03:34] <Riddell> apokryphos: the version number should be 3.0.3-0ubuntu1  (and actually should be 3.0.3-0ubuntu0.1 etc until it's ready to upload)
[03:36] <apokryphos> Darn; should have remembered that. For the guys at MOTU, then, I should leave as ubuntu0.1, and I guess they can alter?
[03:37] <apokryphos> I guess have I have to do the dpkg-buildpackages again, then. :) 
[03:37] <Riddell> yep
[03:37] <apokryphos> not too much loss as the debuild -S returned errors: i.e. gunzip: stdin: not in gzip format
[03:39] <Riddell> is it gzip or did you just rename from bz2?
[03:40] <apokryphos> No idea what it's talking about with regard to gzip; don't see any gzip too. Never did rename the tar.bz2..
[03:41] <Riddell> how did you make the .orig file?
[03:43] <apokryphos> hm, now wondering if that came in earlier when experimenting a bit
[03:44] <Riddell> well you want to make it by bunzip2ing the .bz2 and gzipping it and renaming to follow the correct pattern
[03:44] <apokryphos> Pretty sure it was built with the dpkg-buildpackage though..
[03:45] <Riddell> .orig isn't build by anything, it's the origional (or as close as you can get it)
[03:45] <Riddell> I'm off to bed, #ubuntu-motu has people if you need help
[03:46] <Riddell> add the package to https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUNewPackages and we'll try and find people to review
[03:46] <apokryphos> ok, thanks for all the help :)
[03:54] <Riddell> amu, haggai: don't support either of you registered #kubuntu or #kubuntu-devel?
[04:20] <Riddell> http://img87.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img87&image=10021237tu.jpg
[04:20] <Riddell> spotted in the wild!
[04:50] <Riddell> http://dot.kde.org/1112582895 giving away Kubuntu CDs
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[01:53] <apokryphos> Riddell: as a note: finished the .deb with proper version etc. Thanks for all the help. :)
[01:54] <apokryphos> that gzip error was down to me specifying the tar.bz2 in the dh_make, by the by.
[01:54] <Riddell> apokryphos: groovy.  add it to the MOTU page and then we need to find people to review
[01:54] <apokryphos> yup, done.
=== apokryphos is gonna go for kooldock next
[03:06] <elmo> amu: what's the baz url for seeds?
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[03:39] <haggai> elmo: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
[03:39] <elmo> yah, I meant the commitable one, but I found it, thanks
[03:39] <haggai> np
[06:40] <Riddell> Kamion: I just did a fresh install and it seems to ask which linux I want installed, linux, linux-i386 or linux-2.6.10-i386.  is there a difference?  seems slightly confusing to the user
[06:41] <Riddell> Kamion: could you add vorbis-tools to the kubuntu desktop seed?
[06:44] <Kamion> Riddell: were there previous errors during the installation? that question only shows up in expert mode (errors can drop you back to expert mode)
[06:45] <Kamion> Riddell: any particular category in the seed?
[06:45] <Kamion> ("don't care" is an acceptable answer)
[06:46] <Riddell> Kamion: next to kaudiocreator in the seed (which will be in kdemultimedia)
[06:47] <Riddell> Kamion: it complained that my partitions weren't set up right
[06:48] <Kamion> right, that would do it
[06:48] <Kamion> Riddell: seed changed
[06:52] <Riddell> Kamion: thanks
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[07:15] <motaboy> Hi all!
[07:16] <uniq> hello.
[07:18] <haggai> hi
[08:03] <Riddell> haggai: what's the plan with adding updates-from-cvs patches?
[08:04] <Riddell> haggai: there's a few changes I'd like to make after doing this fresh install so I could add them as I do those
[08:08] <haggai> Riddell: I looked at the updates, and there are rather a lot
[08:09] <Riddell> haggai: do you think they're likely to cause trouble?
[08:09] <haggai> Riddell: I think there is a good chance they will in places
[08:09] <Riddell> maybe we should just do it for kde-i18n and try and do a kde 3.4.1 in hoary-updates
[08:10] <haggai> Riddell: it is difficult to tell.  Obviously they are all supposed to be bug fixes but there are a lot of backports that could be not very well tested
[08:10] <motaboy> usually the patches backported to the KDE_3_4_BRANCH are only bug fixes 
[08:10] <Riddell> motaboy: usually :)
[08:10] <haggai> motaboy: have you actually looked at the commits?  I know they are supposed to be fixes but the quantity is scary, and they are not all obvious what they are doing
[08:11] <motaboy> haggai: I always keep an eye on kde-cvs ml
[08:11] <haggai> motaboy: I think we have a good chance to introduce a new bug and not have time for it to surface before the release
[08:11] <motaboy> haggai: and the backports are not so much
[08:11] <motaboy> haggai: yeah.
[08:12] <haggai> Riddell: yeah I think so, much as I know this strategy will mean we ship with some bugs that could have been fixed
[08:12] <motaboy> haggai: IMHO that before a release only very annoying bugs should be fixed
[08:12] <haggai> motaboy: I agree
[08:12] <haggai> Riddell: the kde-i18n changes are so big the diff is > 450Mb.  I think we should just make a new tar.gz
[08:13] <haggai> Riddell: something like 3.4.0+cvsyyyymmdd
[08:13] <motaboy> haggai: I'm sorry. I didn't had much time for that annoying konqueror crash
[08:13] <motaboy> haggai: I wrote some things in the bug.
[08:14] <motaboy> haggai: but It's hard to me to find the real cause.
[08:14] <haggai> motaboy: yes, thanks for your research.  That bug is being hard to track down
[08:14] <motaboy> haggai: I'd like to report it upstream.
[08:14] <haggai> motaboy: please do
[08:15] <motaboy> haggai: ok. maybe the developers of that part will solve it in 1 second. :D
[08:15] <haggai> motaboy: heh :)
[08:49] <uniq> heh.. check out http://pippin.gimp.org/view/?http://pippin.gimp.org/gallery/panorama/gjovik_gard.jpg in firefox.. and then in konqueror.. notice a difference? :)
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[10:06] <Riddell> haggai, amu: are we releasing on Wednesday or Friday?
[10:09] <amu> release is same day like ubuntu ... Friday, but a "Friday release" isnt good, i prefer Monday
[10:11] <Riddell> what's bad about Friday?
[10:12] <haggai> Friday sounds better than Wednesday
[10:15] <amu> most (normal) people go Friday into weekend. If they return at Monday, the News isnt fresh.With gnoppix i release all time Monday, you get more more NEWS, compared to Friday    
[10:16] <Riddell> we could just do it tonight, trump ubuntu :)
[10:45] <haggai> heh >-)
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[10:53] <uniq> finally.. got the wiki to work.. had to change my passowrd (?).. to be able to add/change anything.. 
[11:07] <Riddell> amu: libmad as a build depends?  can you do that?
[11:08] <Riddell> amu: and is cdrdao moving into main?
[11:10] <amu> asked haggai about it, till libmad is not on the cd ... 
[11:10] <amu> and cdrdao was: 7877 see comment #8 from pitti
[11:12] <motaboy> Riddell: sorry. are you talking about k3b mp3 plugins?
[11:14] <Riddell> motaboy: talking about the k3b amu just uploaded to hoary
[11:14] <Riddell> libmad is in main, didn't know that
[11:14] <motaboy> Riddell: amu said for amarok
[11:15] <Riddell> well I don't have a CD burner so I'm trusting that it'll all work :)
[11:15] <Riddell> motaboy: said what for amarok?
[11:16] <motaboy> Riddell: probably I didn't understood but talking about k3b-mp3 amu noticed that libmad is in main an said that it's here for amarok
[11:17] <Riddell> oh I see
[11:17] <Riddell> so everything should be sorted.  groovy
[11:17] <motaboy> Riddell: but I cannot seed libmad as a build dep of amarok...
[11:17] <motaboy> s/seed/see
[11:18] <motaboy> Riddell: it's a dep of akode-mpeg
[11:19] <motaboy> knapster2???
[11:19] <motaboy> kwave and kpresenter???
[11:23] <motaboy> Riddell: BTW I noticed that systempreferences doesn't work because it has some problems with it's xdg files.
[11:23] <Riddell> motaboy: that's what I said would be the problem
[11:24] <cmf> are there any plans to add rosegarden 1.0?
[11:24] <cmf> there's and outdated version in universe
[11:26] <Riddell> cmf: not thought about it but good idea, please add to HelpingKubuntu
[11:28] <cmf> okies
[11:28] <cmf> just reading the wiki now.. :d
[11:29] <cmf> shall i comment, or edit?
[11:32] <cmf> hmm, konqy seems busted
[11:33] <cmf> cookie handler error when i try to manage cookies (so i can login to comment regarding rosegarden)
[11:33] <cmf> on ubuntulinux.org that is
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[11:40] <motaboy> cmf: try restarting kded
[11:40] <cmf> okies
[11:40] <motaboy> cmf: probably you updated kde without restarting it
[11:41] <cmf> possibly
[11:41] <cmf> ahh, it was the hal update
[11:47] <amu> arg .. i'm too stupid to read buildlogs :(
[11:49] <cartel_> arrgh wtf
[11:49] <cartel_> i HATE bitkeeper
[11:51] <Riddell> cmf: "Mr J Riddell" I don't use a title
[11:51] <cmf> i was joking :P
[11:52] <cmf> would you rather i changed it?
[11:52] <Riddell> yep
[11:52] <cartel_> oh phew
[11:52] <cmf> okies, sorry about that then
[11:52] <cartel_> it was april fools :)
[11:54] <cmf> shit, did i just delete that wiki page? i was trying to delete my comment... fuck
[11:54] <cmf> i have it here in my cache, but fuck fuck fuck
[11:54] <Riddell> cmf: hold that cache
[11:54] <cmf> will do
[11:55] <cmf> is it def gone, so sorry about this guys, fucking stupi dme
[11:55] <Riddell> cmf: blame the usability of the wiki
[11:55] <cmf> :)
[11:55] <Riddell> cmf: can you add the page again?
[11:55] <cmf> okies
[11:55] <cmf> is there a special way to add all teh headers and stuff?
[11:56] <uniq> which page? 
[11:56] <cmf> HelpingKubuntu
[11:56] <Riddell> cmf: I'll sort the formatting, just add the content back
=== uniq got HelpingKubuntu open in firefox.
[11:57] <cmf> i'll paste it all back in as plain text
[11:57] <cmf> if that's ok?
[11:57] <Riddell> cmf: yep
[11:57] <Riddell> uniq: hold it there, just in case :)
[11:57] <uniq> I will.
[11:57] <uniq> saving it too.. just in case :)
[11:57] <Riddell> what a troublesome page it is
[11:58] <uniq> indeed. not just the page.. the whole wiki.
[11:58] <uniq> imho.
[11:58] <cmf> all back as plain text
[11:58] <cmf> sorry about this again
[11:59] <cmf> that ok like that or you needing anything elsE?
[12:03] <Riddell> there we go, good as new
[12:04] <Riddell> cmf: how did you end up deleteing it?  that's quite a usability issue
[12:04] <uniq> how does the undo link in the upper right corner work? 
[12:04] <uniq> does it undo page deleting? 
[12:05] <uniq> or is it just for editing? 
[12:05] <cmf> Riddell: bellow my comment were 4 buttons and a textbox, i looked foe edit in there for my comment, saw delete so pressed that, then realised it was for teh wiki, pressed stop in konq but was too late
[12:06] <cmf> added comment sans Mr J ;)
[12:07] <Riddell> cmf: ah I see.  well that wiki is rubbish, they may well be changing back to moin (which will screw up 100 things including that jinxed page I'll bet)