[12:14] <Amaranth> http://www.imagine-msn.com/Spaces/ <--notice anything familiar? :)
[12:25] <robertj> is Evolution still broken?
[12:25] <robertj> I'm getting wierd messages with extended unicode chars
[12:27] <robertj> or sometimes just a blank dialog box
[12:29] <tritium> robertj, evolution 2.2.2 will be out tomorrow.  Perhaps your problems will be fixed in the release.
[12:29] <robertj> hopefully\
[12:30] <robertj> sudo ls / >> /.hidden
[12:30] <robertj> ;)
[12:34] <mdke> have there been some really crazy issues with gam_server today?
[12:34] <mdke> if its known i won't bother investigating
[12:37] <mdke> i have a screenful of "scheduling while atomic: gam_server/0xffffffe6/6045"
[12:38] <mdke> then "Kernel panic - not syncing: Aiee, killing interrupt handler"
[12:44] <robertj> what's the news on the new nautilus config
[12:46] <seb128> what about nautilus ?
[12:48] <robertj> #8516, the closing windows when clicking
[12:51] <bob2> mdke: you're using a recent kernel, right?
[12:51] <seb128> robertj: no change according to the comments
[12:53] <robertj> seb128: this really bothers me, this seems like the last-minute change that freeze periods were ment to stop
[12:53] <seb128> feel free to comment on the bug
[12:54] <seb128> Mark is taking this decisions
[12:54] <seb128> in fact I don't like this broken spatial neither, and there is probably some corner cases that would need to talk/feedback
[12:58] <jordi> Kamion: I take it nano 1.3.6 wasn't considered for Hoary?
[12:58] <mdke> bob2, hi
[12:58] <mdke> bob2, yes recent kernel
[01:00] <mdke> bob2, ah good point, i have only had problems since i've been running the 2.6.11 kernel, rather than 2.6.10
[01:08] <robertj> seb: is that mark - hbd address the right Mark?
[01:08] <robertj> (just wanted to know if he was getting mail from the bug)
[01:09] <seb128> right
[01:10] <mjg59> seb128: Has the documentation been changed to match the code?
[01:10] <seb128> no
[01:10] <mjg59> seb128: That, uh, sounds like an issue
[01:10] <seb128> that's not the only one :/
[01:11] <robertj> is it realistic to expect an on-time release and still have time for the i18n folks to get in on it?
[01:11] <seb128> there is no i18n to do
[01:11] <seb128> we don't have a preference option for it
[01:11] <robertj> seb128: my feeling is also that if we switch away from opening multiple windows by default the Places menu items need to change as well
[01:11] <seb128> why ?
[01:11] <robertj> seb128: isn't there a basic using gnome document though?
[01:11] <robertj> seb128: because you get multiple windows
[01:11] <mjg59> seb128: There would be i18n of the docs
[01:12] <seb128> we are not clear if that require a UI option or not
[01:12] <seb128> no documentation about this
[01:12] <seb128> no reflection about the issues and the corner cases
[01:13] <robertj> What do you know, the using Nautilus is for version 2.8 and seems to cover browsing only
[01:13] <Amaranth> robertj: 2.8? spatial was introduced in 2.6, wasn't it?
[01:14] <robertj> err 2.6
[01:14] <Amaranth> robertj: That would mean that was for 2.4
[01:14] <robertj> Amaranth: it says 2.6
[01:14] <robertj> maybe that's just using gnome though
[01:14] <robertj> oh there is more
[01:15] <robertj> but its called 'Navigating Your Files and Folders as Objects' -> 'File Object Windows' 
[01:17] <robertj> also, can someone trigger a file quota error message from their server in Evolution?
[01:17] <robertj> I think that's what these garbled messages are
[01:20] <mjg59> robertj: Yeah, there's a section for browsing and another for spatial
[01:22] <robertj> that's a scary section name for a document like that
[01:22] <robertj> mjg59: did you read my last comment?
[01:22] <robertj> (actually I guess my first comment on that big)
[01:22] <robertj> %s/ig/ug
[01:23] <mjg59> robertj: I read the thread
[01:24] <robertj> ahh just saw your comment ;)
[01:24] <robertj> what do you mean by rever to upstream behavior?
[01:25] <mjg59> left mouse button = open new window without closing old one
[01:26] <bob2> hah, insightful commentary from "brandon hale"
[01:26] <robertj> oh I was being bone-headed, you mean an option in the gui, I'm just being dumb
[01:57] <tseng> bob2: on the spatial bug?
[01:58] <tseng> bob2: i was too tired of arguing it on irc to put more thoughts on the bug I guess.
[01:58] <robertj> tseng: please do cut and paste some choice ones so there is a canonical point of reference
[01:58] <tseng> it was a few days ago
[01:59] <tseng> i dont do logging
[01:59] <robertj> ok
[01:59] <tseng> basically it breaks things for everyone, or most imo
[01:59] <tseng> people who are used to real spatial behaviour cant use it
[02:00] <tseng> and people who are coming from windows are like wtf, windows are popping up and random positions with no navigation
[02:00] <tseng> it would be better to default to browser if you are really targetting windows converts
[02:00] <robertj> tseng: that's my feeling but IMO it's best to just revert it and look again the day after release
[02:00] <tseng> thats true
[02:01] <mdke> windows 2k uses that behaviour doesn't it?
[02:01] <tseng> robertj: mark doesnt follow release plans
[02:01] <tseng> robertj: he throws stuff in whenever he pleases, which is his perogative I guess.
[02:02] <robertj> tseng: hehe, his $, his choice
[02:02] <robertj> mdke: every Windows since 98 browses by default
[02:02] <tseng> windows 95 had a psuedo spatial
[02:02] <mdke> hmm
[02:03] <tseng> its not even worth comparing, it was a broken model.
[02:03] <robertj> Active Desktop actualy came with ie 4.5 right?
[02:03] <mdke> my school must have put it in intentionally then
[02:03] <robertj> or was it 4.0
[02:03] <tseng> so lets ignore it.
[02:03] <mdke> crazy
[02:03] <robertj> and it gave you the option to go to "Web Like" mode or something
[02:03] <mdke> oh yeah
[02:03] <mdke> *shudders*
[02:03] <jdub> that was a separate thing again
[02:03] <robertj> hyperlinks, one-click, etc
[02:03] <tseng> yeah that came with IE4
[02:03] <robertj> but 98 defaulted to Brose w
[02:03] <tseng> active desktop
[02:04] <tseng> it was also not spatial, and also broken.
[02:04] <mdke> good morning jdub
[02:04] <jdub> morning
[02:06] <robertj> jdub: guess what we are talking about ;)
[02:07] <jdub> uh huh
[02:08] <jdub> i've been reading
[02:08] <tseng> (broken drag n' drop)++
[02:25] <astharot> ciao
[02:45] <mvirkkil> Any news about why the wiki got b0rked?
[03:01] <dross_> you guys are slacking still
[03:01] <dross_> the nvidia driver is _still old
[03:06] <mdz> dross: our release is in 5 days; we stopped upgrading software in the distribution "just because it's newer" about 3 months ago
[03:07] <dross> mdz: what about in hoary?
[03:07] <mdz> dross: I am talking about hoary.
[03:07] <calc> hoary is the one coming out in 5 days
[03:07] <mdz> yep
[03:07] <dross> oh, heh :)
[03:07] <dross> mdz: I didn't know that ;)
[03:08] <mdz> and the nvidia driver in hoary is about 3 days behind upstream
[03:08] <calc> hmm actually doesn't it release on wed (in 3 days)?
[03:08] <dross> well.. they upgraded the nvidia driver a few days ago
[03:08] <mdz> calc: no, we pushed up to friday
[03:08] <schweeb> isn't fabbione trying to put the new nvidia in?
[03:08] <calc> mdz: oh :\
[03:08] <dross> in hoary
[03:08] <calc> so will breezy be added on friday?
[03:08] <mdz> calc: in order to catch GNOME 2.10.1 (scheduled for wednesday), which has now been delayed
[03:08] <dross> because last week or so there was the _old_ driver
[03:08] <mdz> dross: I'm not seeing your point. are you experiencing a problem with the driver?
[03:09] <dross> mdz: no :)
[03:09] <schweeb> dross: if you're really desperate for it, you can always get the updated driver from nvidia
[03:09] <schweeb> it's real easy to install...
[03:09] <mdz> there is a small chance that we'll update to 7174, but it's more likely that we'll stay with 7167
[03:10] <mdz> calc: breezy will probably be created sometime around release time, yeah
[03:10] <calc> ok
[03:10] <dross> mdz: curious, will hoary become a 'stable' and use only backported/old software?
[03:10] <mdz> but there's no scheduled date for it at this time
[03:11] <mdz> dross: every six months we produce a stable release, and only update that branch with critical bugfixes
[03:11] <dross> mdz: there will be another 'unstable'?
[03:11] <mdz> Ubuntu 5.04 (hoary) will be the second such release
[03:11] <mdz> following Ubuntu 5.04, our development tree will be called 'breezy'
[03:12] <mdz> which will go through a period of aggressive feature development, and then be stabilized, and then released just as Warty and Hoary were
[03:12] <mdz> in October 2005
[03:12] <dross> mdz: where did 'breezy' come from?
[03:12] <mdz> dross: from sabdfl
[03:12] <mdz> 'breezy badger'
[03:13] <dross> mdz: will there be an easy way to upgrade from hoary to breezy without wiping the disk? or do I just need to wipe the disk clean?
[03:15] <infinity> dross : Wiping the disk clean should never be necessary, just as it isn't from warty->hoary.
[03:16] <dross> infinity: I've never upgraded a deb based system
[03:16] <dross> infinity: is it just a large update for the packages and thats it?
[03:16] <robertj> dross: and a reboot
[03:16] <infinity> dross : I have systems that started out as Debian slink, upgraded to potato, woody, sarge, warty, hoary...
[03:16] <dross> sounds simple enough
[03:17] <infinity> dross : With the exception of kernle upgrades, that's all been done without reboots.
[03:17] <schweeb> well, a rebot isn't strictly necessary
[03:17] <schweeb> *reboot
[03:17] <mdz> dross: everything is a package; a complete system upgrade is just a full set of package upgrades
[03:17] <robertj> schweeb: does hoary not require an inotify enabled kernel?
[03:18] <mdz> robertj: no, in fact inotify is disabled by default in the hoary kernel
[03:18] <schweeb> inotify is... what mdz said
[03:21] <calc> so is a new kernel being prepared?
[03:22] <schweeb> inotify is in the kernel, it just requires you to add a kernel option
[03:22] <mdz> calc: for what?
[03:22] <calc> well for the IDEDMA_ONLYDISK issue
[03:22] <mdz> what issue is that?
[03:22] <calc> i think fabbione was working on one yesterday
[03:22] <mdz> there is continually a new kernel update in preparation, what with the steady flow of security vulnerabilities being found upstream...
[03:22] <calc> mdz: on amd64 and (i think ppc) if its set the kernel won't let you enable dma at all on ATAPI devices best as i can tell
[03:23] <mdz> calc: hmm, I'm pretty sure it worked on my test box the last time I tried it
[03:24] <calc> it gave me some message about operation not permitted (iirc)
[03:24] <calc> as opposed to failed
[03:24] <calc> and knoppix i386 on the same box let me enable dma
[03:24] <calc> i still need to run the i386 hoary live cd on the box to see
[03:24] <mdz> confirmed, it works fine here
[03:24] <calc> on amd64?
[03:24] <mdz> yep
[03:24] <calc> hmm ok
[03:25] <mdz> EPERM generally means that either you're using the generic driver, or the chipset-specific driver doesn't support DMA on your device
[03:25] <calc> hmm interesting
[03:25] <calc> perhaps it didn't load the right driver for my box
[03:26] <calc> i actually had that exact issue before on warty with an intel box
[03:26] <calc> it loaded the specific driver too late
[03:27] <calc> gar
[03:28] <calc> its doing it on via now too
[03:28] <calc> i suppose it would useful to send a dmesg to bugzilla?
[03:28] <calc> it stole the ide0 before the via driver was loaded
[03:28] <infinity> Does anyone have a rationale for apache2-mpm-worker being the one in the ship seed?
[03:28] <calc> which my optical drive is on the ide0
[03:29] <calc> it loaded the via driver pretty late actually
[03:29] <calc> around the time usb was loaded
[03:30] <calc> should the generic driver ever get loaded before the chipset specific ones do?
[03:32] <calc> what is interesting is /proc/ide/via shows like it has the primary ide channel as well, but dmesg shows it couldn't get it
[03:35] <mdz> generic should always be loaded last
[03:35] <mdz> check the ordering of /loadmodules in your initrd
[03:36] <dholbach> morning
[03:36] <calc> ok
[03:38] <calc> mdz: i don't see any reference to either ide driver in my loadmodules file
[03:38] <calc> i can paste the contents somewhere if you would like to see
[03:39] <mdz> calc: is your root on something other than an IDE disk?
[03:41] <calc> my root is on sata_via
[03:41] <calc> my optical drivers are on regular via
[03:41] <calc> s/drivers/drives/
[03:41] <calc> the sata_via is in the loadmodules file but the regular via is not
[03:42] <dholbach> are there any news on the wiki yet?
[03:43] <dholbach> maybe it's best to just start the work again
[03:46] <tseng> dholbach: you must be kidding.
[03:47] <dholbach> tseng: last time i did it in 3 days, now it should take 2, release is in ~4 - i guess there's no other way
[03:47] <dholbach> tseng: i couldnt even sleep *grmbl*
[04:29] <mdz> calc: that should work, then
[04:30] <mdz> calc: just remove ide-* from /etc/modules
[04:30] <mdz> and let hotplug load them; current hotplug in hoary loads everything in the proper order
[04:30] <calc> ah so its just an upgrade issue?
[04:31] <mdz> calc: right, we don't mess with /etc/modules on upgrade
[04:31] <calc> ok
[04:32] <calc> thanks for the help :)
[04:41] <dholbach> tritium: hey michael
[04:42] <tritium> hi dholbach :)
[04:42] <dholbach> tseng: my memory seems to be quite good it seems - i didnt trust it, but when i re-rebuild the packages i seem to know which one would fail ;-)
[04:42] <tritium> dholbach, How are you, Daniel?
[04:43] <dholbach> tritium: couldnt sleep properly, so i got up again and re-worked apt-get.org stuff, i had finished like 12 hours ago
[04:43] <tritium> Wow.
[04:44] <dholbach> tritium: the wiki is now in the same state as 3 days ago... that's why
[04:44] <dholbach> tritium: but i'm alright, thanks... how about you?
[04:44] <tritium> I'm fine, thanks.  I'm very pleased with my Hoary reinstall.
[04:45] <dholbach> :-))
[04:46] <tritium> The suspend-to-ram is working solidly with nvidia as long as I use NVagp, even when I have pcmcia wlan card inserted.
[04:50] <fabbione> morning
[04:50] <tritium> morning
[04:50] <dholbach> hey fabbione 
[05:04] <Robot101> mdz: ping
[05:05] <mdz> Robot101: pong
[05:05] <Robot101> mdz: do you know if a CVE number has been allocated for recent IRC escaping problems in Gaim?
[05:05] <mdz> no, I do not
[05:05] <mdz> if it's public (and i assume it is since you're talking about it here), one must be assigned by Mitre in order to avoid duplicate assignments
[05:06] <Robot101> aye, it is public. some tool spent 14 hours crashing people in #gaim, his idea of contacting the upstream developers, whilst we fixed it, and then mailed bugtraq later claiming we denied the problem existed and wouldn't fix...
[05:07] <Robot101> so I should just upload the version with the fix and put the CVE number in later..
[05:12] <mdz> Robot101: have you sent the patch to the Martins?
[05:13] <Robot101> mdz: I can pull a patch out if you want - I was just going to push 1.2.1 (about to release) into sid & sarge. what version is hoary at?
[05:13] <mdz> Robot101: oh, it doesn't affect woody or warty?
[05:14] <mdz> Robot101: hoary has 1.1.4
[05:14] <Robot101> mdz: this version of the IRC plugin isn't in woody... warty's a more likely candidate
[05:14] <Robot101> what version there?
[05:14] <mdz> 1.0.0
[05:14] <Robot101> yeah probably
[05:15] <mdz> I guess only pitti needs to be contacted, then
[05:25] <Burgundavia> mako: ping
[05:38] <jalrnc> does anyone know what's wrong with the wiki? recent changes have been lost
[05:39] <dholbach> jalrnc: nobody seems to know
[05:40] <Burgundavia> saw a post to ubuntu-doc, but no response there either
[05:41] <jalrnc> I sent an email to the webmaster, still waiting for a response
[05:46] <Lathiat> qwdqwdqwd
[06:13] <mako> Burgundavia: oh!
[06:13] <mako> Burgundavia: oi! even :)
[06:13] <Burgundavia> hmm
[06:13] <Burgundavia> thinking about names for talks
[06:13] <Burgundavia> should I go funny or stay serious?
[06:32] <Burgundavia> mako: still there?
[06:33] <mdz> Burgundavia: I think he's eating delicious food
[06:33] <Burgundavia> bah
[06:33] <Burgundavia> no food eating for him
[06:40] <Burgundavia> mdz: any reports of sound breaking recently?
[06:40] <mdz> just the usual stream of misdirected reports
[06:41] <Burgundavia> ok
[06:41] <Burgundavia> lol
[06:43] <fabbione> mdz: the next question would be: why doesn't trap all the ADD messages?
[06:45] <dholbach> reviewing those apt-get.org packages makes me consider having MOTU-boot-camps all around the globe
[06:48] <mdz> dholbach: that is not a bad idea at all
[06:48] <mdz> dholbach: tie into LoCoTeams
[06:48] <jdub> that's a rad idea
[06:49] <jdub> we could line up UbuntuLove days to synch with them
[06:50] <dholbach> mdz, jdub: i'll give the wiki some loving wrt to that once i finished reviewing apt-get.org AGAIN, cleaned universe-kernel* and had a look at the open universe bugs
[06:50] <mdz> dholbach: I've been seeing some reports of the wiki being in a broken state right now, do you know anything about it?
[06:50] <dholbach> mdz: no
[06:50] <mdz> I haven't had time to investigate myself
[06:51] <mdz> and this is something like the weekend for me
[06:51] <dholbach> but i have huge PAIN, because i have to review everything again
[06:51] <dholbach> it took me the best of 3 days
[06:51] <dholbach> now i keep it on my own wiki
[06:51] <dholbach> the current state of the wiki is of 3 days ago
[06:52] <dholbach> and since our beloved communication-sharethelove-instrument saves everything in one huge blog, i think chances of recovering anything is ~0 :-/
[06:52] <mdz> dholbach: everything again?
[06:52] <dholbach> mdz: that's what i do atm... couldnt sleep
[06:52] <dholbach> release is in 4 days, so i have to get a move on
[06:53] <mdz> so you are also experiencing problems with the wiki?
[06:53] <mdz> I emailed henrik earlier tonight and asked him to look into it
[06:53] <dholbach> yes... as i said: the state of it is of 3 days ago
[06:53] <dholbach> google-cache unfortunately is of around the same timestamp
[06:54] <dholbach> i was finished around 13:30 utc and ogra said it must have been b0rked at 14:45-15:00 utc
[06:54] <dholbach> (he grabs the wiki's css for hwdb.ubuntu.com)
[06:54] <mdz> dholbach: I asked if you knew anything about it being broken, and you said no, so I thought that meant it was ok :-)
[06:55] <dholbach> mdz: ah ok... i don't know anything specific about the breakage
[06:55] <mdz> dholbach: please email henrik.omma@canonical.com with your observations; he is tracking website problems for us now
[06:55] <mdz> I have noticed the traffic and alerted him, but have not had time to investigate myself
[06:56] <dholbach> mdz: will do
[06:56] <mdz> thanks
[06:56] <mdz> dholbach: you are coming to Sydney, yes?
[06:57] <dholbach> mdz: yes...  i'm quite glad to see you guys there, finally :-)
[06:57] <mdz> dholbach: yes, it will be good to meet you
[06:58] <dholbach> nice you say that :-)
[06:59] <mako> Burgundavia: yes, back
[07:01] <dholbach> mdz: mailed him
[07:01] <mdz> thanks
[07:02] <dholbach> mdz: i'll nevertheless continue reviewing, i guess i'll finish in 5-6 hours
[07:02] <nasdaq7> who is coming to sydney?
[07:03] <dholbach> nasdaq7: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnderAttendees
[07:04] <mdz> good answer
[07:04] <nasdaq7> i thought kylie minoque
[07:05] <mdz> that list is somewhat incomplete though
[07:05] <mdz> I'm not on it
[07:05] <nasdaq7> neither is kylie
[07:05] <dholbach> yeah... all of you canonical guys should add themselves with their particular interests :-)
[07:05] <infinity> mdz : You're on it.  It says "All Canonical Employees".
[07:06] <dross> eww.. aussieland.. where they charge by the MB
[07:06] <Lathiat> heh
[07:06] <Lathiat> its true
[07:06] <Lathiat> i just ran my stupid uni internet quota out again
[07:06] <Lathiat> 4c/mb is nasty
[07:06] <dross> I never want to live there, its a horrible place. What kind of country charges per quota
[07:06] <dross> Lathiat: yep
[07:06] <Lathiat> fortunately we have a local peering network in western australia where traffic is free
[07:06] <Lathiat> and i have access to a machine on a fixed rate pipe
[07:06] <Lathiat> so i tunnel through it
[07:07] <nasdaq7> the aussies think australia is better than the us
[07:07] <dross> Lathiat: I use 100 gigs a month, I'd have to make 500k a year to live there ;) 
[07:07] <Lathiat> haha
[07:07] <dross> nasdaq7: thats such bs
[07:07] <Lathiat> like this person i know in canada pays $30/month for liek 400K/s unlimited internet
[07:07] <Lathiat> i pay $60 for 50K/s 28GB
[07:07] <dross> nasdaq7: I can uncap any cable modem in the US, this state rocks ;)
[07:07] <Lathiat> and half that 28GB is "off-peak" (midnight-7am)
[07:07] <dross> nasdaq7: I once tried uncapping this modem just for kicks, and obtained a 7Mbps/7Mbps
[07:08] <dross> 3/1.5 is good enough for me however ;)
[07:08] <dross> Lathiat: pitty :)
[07:08] <dholbach> don't we have #ubuntu-bandwidth yet? ;-)
[07:08] <Lathiat> dross: quite
[07:08] <Lathiat> im at uni atm, get better speeds like up to 1MB/s, i just pay through the nose for it :)
[07:09] <Lathiat> at the other uni here i can get to internet2 for free
[07:09] <dross> Lathiat: If I moved to aussielang, I would need to buy a dish and use that as a main internet connection ;)
[07:09] <Lathiat> so that includes gnome.org and stuff
[07:09] <Lathiat> not here but
[07:09] <dross> Lathiat: hehe, internet2 is okay
[07:09] <dross> Lathiat: I like the fact that most univs have I2 and transfer speeds are outragously fast
[07:09] <Lathiat> yeh
[07:11] <dross> most of them use AFS
[07:11] <dross> AFS is much much better than nasty NFS
[07:12] <Lathiat> i tried it
[07:12] <Lathiat> its kernel panicy
[07:12] <Lathiat> and has stupid authentication stuff
[07:12] <lifeless> try sfs
[07:12] <lifeless> it rocks
[07:12] <Lathiat> nfs works fine as long as your server or the network don't go away :)
[07:13] <Lathiat> or you need locking that doesn't break
[07:13] <dross> AFS has always worked for me... :)
[07:13] <Lathiat> mmm
[07:13] <Lathiat> i want to look at lustre
[07:13] <Lathiat> see if its any good
[07:13] <Lathiat> (on a slightly unrelated note)
[07:18] <dholbach> hey pitti 
[07:19] <pitti> Good morning
[07:19] <infinity> mdz : htmldoc from sid fixes #7928.
[07:19] <pitti> dholbach: any luck with recovering your apt-get.org work?
[07:19] <mdz> infinity: eh?
[07:19] <dholbach> pitti: nope, mdz told me to mail henrik, which i did
[07:20] <infinity> mdz : Oh, I just noticed the upload.  The bug importer hasn't gotten the close message yet, I assume.
[07:20] <dholbach> pitti: but i guess chances are ~0 and i couldnt sleep, so i re-reviewed
[07:20] <mdz> infinity: oh, it was just uploaded
[07:20] <infinity> mdz : Or it was a tag, not a close, cause it's an NMU.  (does the importer catch that?)
[07:20] <mdz> my apt cache said hoary==sid atm
[07:20] <infinity> mdz : Yeah, it's shiny new.  Just a patch for that bug and nothing else too, which is handy.
[07:20] <dholbach> pitti: so i can't provide you with as much work as i wanted to :-)
[07:21] <pitti> dholbach: :-)
[07:21] <pitti> dholbach: still, losing two days of work just because of a random server error is awful. Do you know the reason for this now?
[07:22] <dholbach> pitti: no... unfortunately not, but since i heard that the wiki stores data in one HUGE blob, i feel slightly uncomfortable about it in general
[07:22] <pitti> dholbach: hmm, moinmoin was able to revert "patches"...
[07:23] <pitti> fabbione: Hi
[07:23] <fabbione> mdz: it is clearly a huge race mess
[07:23] <fabbione> pitti: hi dude
[07:23] <pitti> fabbione: I already beat it to death
[07:23] <pitti> fabbione: did you find out anything new?
[07:23] <fabbione> pitti: can you please review the 3 race conditions from Chuck?
[07:23] <pitti> fabbione: yeah
[07:23] <fabbione> pitti: yes. check the bug log :)
[07:23] <jdub> fabbione, pitti: i fear what DV will do if you say that to him ;)
[07:23] <dholbach> pitti: zwiki is able too, but only if you don't revert to state-of-3-days-ago
[07:23] <fabbione> i think i can workaround it
[07:24] <pitti> fabbione: "workaround" = using only polling?
[07:24] <fabbione> jdub: who is DV?
[07:24] <jdub> fabbione: daniel veillard, author of gamin
[07:24] <fabbione> pitti: if i understand the protocol correctly, a client asks gamin to monitor a dir
[07:25] <pitti> fabbione: yeah, that's what you do in testgam
[07:25] <fabbione> jdub: tell him, he needs to learn to write code
[07:25] <pitti> fabbione: "mondir /foo/bar"
[07:25] <jdub> fabbione: he also wrote libxml2/libxslt :)
[07:25] <dholbach> pitti: so if you have a bit of free time, check   http://moz.gotdns.org/moniwiki/wiki.php/AptGetOrg   for the packages tagged as "needs security review"
[07:25] <fabbione> pitti: i don't understand why gam_server takes the freedom of stop polling a directory without the client asking for it (1) and why it doesn't gets all the signals from dnotify (2)
[07:25] <pitti> dholbach: I'll do
[07:26] <dholbach> pitti: it's not finished yet... but i think in 5 hours or something, i'll have done it (again)
[07:26] <fabbione> pitti: i am pretty sure i can workaround (1) and it might, as a side effect, fix (2)
[07:26] <fabbione> but the real issue is (2)
[07:26] <fabbione> jdub: i don't care what he did or not. the code is still crap
[07:26] <fabbione> jdub:
[07:26] <fabbione>  /* TODO: GQueue is not signal-safe, need to use something else */
[07:27] <fabbione> static GQueue *changes = NULL;
[07:27] <fabbione> this is inside the dnotify backend
[07:27] <jdub> fabbione: i'm not disagreeing, just giving you more information
[07:27] <fabbione> oh just as a side note..
[07:27] <fabbione> dnotify is all signal based
[07:27] <pitti> fabbione: did you see the nice race conditions when trying to use something like a semaphore?
[07:27] <fabbione> pitti: no i can see the race because not all the "Add" signals are handled
[07:27] <pitti> fabbione: that's probably not the cause of our bug (we hit it far too often for this), but it's still crap
[07:27] <fabbione> pitti: just read the logs i got out of gam_server
[07:28] <fabbione> pitti: our problem is more than one
[07:28] <fabbione> pitti: as i explain in the bug report: (1) we don't catch all the Add signals
[07:28] <fabbione> that leads gamin to remove a direcotry from monitoring for no reasons
[07:29] <fabbione> (2) is why we don't catch all the add signals?
[07:29] <fabbione> so i can see at least 2 bugs there
[07:29] <fabbione> not one
[07:29] <Burgundavia> somebody looking for me?
[07:30] <jdub> fabbione: i'd recommend talking to DV about all of this, btw.
[07:30] <fabbione> if he reads bug reports, he knows
[07:30] <dholbach> Burgundavia: <mako> Burgundavia: yes, back     (half an hour ago)
[07:31] <pitti> jdub: I already did
[07:31] <Burgundavia> dholbach: thanks
[07:31] <Burgundavia> mako: still here?
[07:31] <pitti> fabbione: DV said to me that he had to evaluate"
[07:31] <jdub> pitti: i know; referring to issues raised above
[07:31] <pitti> this bug
[07:31] <fabbione> pitti: well it makes gamin {d,i}notify backends useless
[07:32] <fabbione> i am testing a workaround now
[07:32] <pitti> fabbione: only having polling would be a quick fix if we don't solve it, but it certainly slows things down, doesn't it?
[07:33] <fabbione> pitti: yes. gnome-panel will be slow to death at login time
[07:33] <fabbione> pitti: and it will suck 100% of cpu for several seconds on a slow machine
[07:38] <mako> Burgundavia: tag, you're in
[07:53] <dholbach> mako, Burgundavia: why don't you just exchange phone numbers? :-)
[07:53] <Burgundavia> dholbach: lol
[07:53] <dholbach> Burgundavia: you wouldn't keep on missing each other then :-)
[07:54] <Burgundavia> I got him
[07:54] <Burgundavia> any #ubuntu chan ops here?
[07:54] <Burgundavia> never mind
[07:54] <Burgundavia> the problem left
[07:54] <fabbione> pitti: well my workaround works
[07:54] <pitti> cool
[07:54] <fabbione> pitti: i need to check some other stuff too
[07:54] <fabbione> and send out a patch
[08:14] <fabbione> pitti: patch and explanations added to the bug.
[08:14] <fabbione> pitti: note that i didn't fix the inotify backend
[08:14] <pitti> cool
[08:14] <fabbione> only the dnotidy
[08:15] <fabbione> the patch looks intruive, but that's just diff fault :)
[08:15] <Lathiat> oh so you fixed it?
[08:15] <Lathiat> woo :)
[08:16] <fabbione> Lathiat: no. i workaround it
[08:16] <fabbione> the real fix is way more complex
[08:16] <Lathiat> oh
[08:16] <Lathiat> good enough :)
[08:16] <fabbione> pitti: we need to do some possible memleaks tests
[08:16] <fabbione> pitti: if i understand the code correctly, there are no issues
[08:17] <fabbione> but you may never know
[08:17] <pitti> fabbione: I review the patch again and test it on my boxes
[08:18] <fabbione> pitti: sure
[08:19] <pitti> fabbione: I can imagine that directory registrations keep piling up if you e. g. kill -9 nautilus repeatedly
[08:19] <pitti> fabbione: and some apps might not deregister their watches properly
[08:20] <fabbione> pitti: that's what i was checking right now
[08:21] <fabbione> it seems to leak 4K every 3 nautilus restarts
[08:21] <fabbione> but gaminn code seems to avoid double allocation of mem if a path is already monitored
[08:22] <fabbione> so that might be another leak, like allocated pool for clients not freed properly
[08:22] <pitti> fabbione: well, 4K is acceptable IMHO (it's nothing compared to the other memleaks of gnome :-/ )
[08:22] <fabbione> pitti: can you test on a non patched gamin, if restarting nautilus N time will increase the mem usage of it?
[08:22] <daniels> gnome-terminal is horrific
[08:22] <fabbione> ps axu |grep gam
[08:22] <fabbione> fabbione  7740  0.1  0.2   2524  1336 ?        S    07:52   0:02 /usr/lib/gamin/gam_server
[08:22] <pitti> fabbione: yeah, I do
[08:23] <daniels> my g-t leaks about 500mb every day or two
[08:23] <fabbione> the 1336 was like 1332 a few nautilus restarts ago
[08:23] <Lathiat> daniels: ouch
[08:23] <Lathiat> my gnome-t currently has a res of 15M
[08:23] <Lathiat> i should watch to see what it gets up to
[08:24] <pitti> fabbione: unpatched gamin leaks 4K on every nautilus restart for me
[08:24] <pitti> so no regression here
[08:24] <fabbione> pitti: ok.. patched, it leaks 4K every 2/3 restarts
[08:24] <fabbione> :
[08:24] <fabbione> )
[08:24] <fabbione> here.. at least
[08:24] <pitti> fabbione: it might be fruitful to sort out multiple registrations for one dir
[08:24] <Lathiat> haha
[08:24] <pitti> fabbione: although this is probably too complicated for Hoary
[08:24] <fabbione> pitti: it does already afaics
[08:25] <fabbione> pitti: the lists are quite complex
[08:25] <pitti> fabbione: right now, nautilus registers both a dir and files in it
[08:25] <fabbione> pitti: yes, that is correct and the answer is inotify
[08:25] <fabbione> because dnotify doesn't know crap of inodes
[08:25] <fabbione> and you need to monitor both
[08:25] <fabbione> files even via the poll backend
[08:25] <pitti> fabbione: oh, ok
[08:26] <fabbione> except that inotify is utterly broken
[08:26] <fabbione> both kernel and gamin side
[08:26] <Lathiat> even 0.21 (kernel side)
[08:26] <Lathiat> ?
[08:26] <pitti> yeah, but that will be hopefully be fixed by breezy
[08:26] <fabbione> pitti: hopefully
[08:27] <fabbione> Lathiat: i did stop updating inotify at 0.20
[08:27] <fabbione> Lathiat: so i dunno
[08:27] <fabbione> inotify is quite intrusive patch
[08:29] <Lathiat> quite
[08:30] <fabbione> the main issue is that it fucks up the kernel ABI each time
[08:30] <Lathiat> ah
[08:31] <Lathiat> thats because kernel develoeprs don't beleive in a stable ABI :)
[08:31] <fabbione> no that's because the ABI is only a distro problem
[08:31] <fabbione> since we have tons of lusers compiling their own kernels
[08:32] <fabbione> and complaining if they don't load across upgrades
[08:35] <fabbione> mdz: are you still alive?
[08:37] <HiddenWolf> fabbione: what would you do if he said no?
[08:37] <SuperL4g> fabbione: some people are just gluttons for punishment :)
[08:39] <fabbione> HiddenWolf: let him R.I.P.
[08:39] <fabbione> SuperL4g: eheh
[08:40] <SuperL4g> fabbione: I know this isn't the same thing... but people do it all the time on Gentoo with insane optimizations, and whine when stuff doesn't work.
[08:40] <pitti> fabbione: you rock!
[08:40] <fabbione> SuperL4g: yes i know
[08:40] <fabbione> pitti: no.. i FUCKING ROCK!
[08:41] <fabbione> pitti: i spent most of the weekend digging into that crap
[08:41] <fabbione> pitti: do you want me to upload? or will you?
[08:41] <pitti> fabbione: I have a readymade package here (with credit to you), but of course you can upload yourself :-)
[08:42] <fabbione> pitti: go ahead
[08:42] <fabbione> :)
[08:42] <pitti> ok
[08:42] <fabbione> i am too lazy to vi changelog
[08:42] <fabbione> and type my passphrase twice
[08:43] <fabbione> hmm pitti wait to upload
[08:43] <fabbione> did you check the memleaking?
[08:43] <pitti> fabbione: already uploaded, but it doesn't memleak
[08:43] <fabbione> pitti: ok perfect
[08:44] <fabbione> i get it to suck some more ram while running the Martin's loop
[08:44] <fabbione> but nothing impressive tbh
[08:44] <pitti> fabbione: I ran the while loop for about 5 minutes, gamin uses the same amount of mem as it used when starting it
[08:44] <pitti> fabbione: it remains absolutely constant here
[08:44] <fabbione> pitti: ok.. it has been running here for a while
[08:44] <dholbach> after reviewing this chuck of shit again i think i'm now ready to go to bed
[08:45] <fabbione> and it sucked approx 12/16K more
[08:45] <fabbione> pitti: but i think it's acceptable
[08:45] <fabbione> nobody will ever mv files around THAT fast
[08:47] <pitti> fabbione: and compared to the size of the other gnome crap that's tiny :-)
[08:47] <fabbione> exactly :)
[08:51] <dholbach> good night... 
[08:53] <jdub_> hrm
[08:53] <jdub_> From: Archive Administrator <katie@ftp-master.debian.org>
[08:53] <jdub_> Subject: Processing of gamin_0.0.26-0ubuntu3_source.changes
[08:53] <jdub_> fabbione, pitti: should i be scared? :)
[08:54] <fabbione> jdub_: no
[08:54] <fabbione> now i wonder why i didn't get any email yet
[08:54] <aj> erm, ubuntu version numbers in debian is bad, is it not?
[08:54] <fabbione> AH pitti uploaded to the wrong target?
[08:55] <jdub_> fabbione: that's what i'm worried about, yeah
[08:55] <fabbione> sorry i didn't noticed that
[08:55] <aj> unchecked/gamin_0.0.26-0ubuntu3_source.changes
[08:55] <aj> on ftp-master.d.o
[08:55] <fabbione> jdub_: well it is a good fix for 7078
[08:55] <fabbione> aj: can you kill it please?
[08:56] <jdub_> fabbione: fixing that is a huge relief :)
[08:56] <tritium> jdub, with usplash not in hoary, would you be interested in an ubuntu grub splash image?  I have a link to mine on my wiki page.
[08:56] <fabbione> jdub_: well dude.. i didn't spend the weekend jerking :)
[08:56] <aj> Distribution: hoary
[08:57] <fabbione> right
[08:57] <aj> killed, but it should've got rejected anyway in a few more minutes, i guess
[08:57] <jdub_> tritium: not for the moment, we don't actually display grub at all unless you have other OSes installed :)
[08:57] <fabbione> aj: thanks a lot
[08:57] <tritium> jdub, okay :)
[08:57] <fabbione> time to start some warty -> hoary upgrades tests
[09:00] <fabbione> well this error makes me more happy that i am using 2 keys for ubuntu and debian
[09:00] <fabbione> it would have been dropped at the gpg check
[09:01] <aj> yes, it would've been rejected thrice over: hoary; source only; and no matching .orig.tgz in debian
[09:01] <fabbione> right
[09:07] <fabbione> jdub: in anycase you should talk to upstream and refresh his mind on the bug
[09:26] <seb128> hi
[09:31] <fabbione> hi seb
[09:31] <seb128> hey fabbione 
[09:32] <seb128> fabbione: rocking work on gamin, thanks :)
[09:32] <fabbione> seb128: except that pitti uploaded to debian instead of ubuntu :)
[09:34] <seb128> lol
[09:47] <seb128> hi pitti 
[09:47] <pitti> Hi seb128 
[09:48] <seb128> pitti: Sebasti*e*n :p
[09:48] <pitti> oops, sorry
[09:48] <seb128> np 
[09:48] <seb128> need to say it to mvo too :)
[09:48] <seb128> is that Sebastian in .de ?
[09:49] <pitti> yes
[09:49] <enrico> hello.  I'll be online for a bit.  Anything urgent with the docteam packages?
[09:49] <pitti> it's a very common name here
[09:49] <pitti> Hi enrico, how's it going?
[09:49] <enrico> pitti: not too bad.  Just quite disconnected
[09:50] <enrico> (for someone it could be really bad, I reckon :)
[09:50] <fabbione> pitti: do you realize you uploaded gamin to debian?
[09:50] <fabbione> hey enrico 
[09:50] <seb128> enrico: are you going to include the translation for hoary ?
[09:50] <seb128> enrico: ie: I've send the french about page, I don't know who, but somebody has included the po file instead of the xml file to the package ... that's doesn't work ;p
[09:51] <seb128> enrico: and the .po is not even on the right location, should be fr/about-ubuntu.xml, not C/about-ubuntu-fr.po
[09:53] <enrico> seb128: is the deadline for that in 2 days, or later with language packs?
[09:53] <seb128> the sooner the better
[09:54] <seb128> ask to mdz
[09:54] <enrico> ok
[09:54] <enrico> I'll be back home on the 8th, and if possible I'd like to do this after that
[09:54] <seb128> doesn't work
[09:54] <seb128> 8th the CD master should be ready
[09:55] <seb128> just let me know if I should ack the package as a workaround 
[09:55] <fabbione> i think we will prepare the Golden the 7th or something
[09:56] <enrico> seb128: what's "ack the package as a workaround"?
[09:56] <seb128> apt-get source
[09:56] <seb128> copy my stuff
[09:56] <seb128> and hack the debian/rules to copy them 
[09:56] <enrico> seb128: wouldn't be bad at all
[09:56] <seb128> s/to copy them/to put them to the right place/
[09:57] <seb128> nobody else than you works on this package ?
[09:57] <seb128> I've noticed than the SVN has a couple of new translations
[09:57] <enrico> seb128: afaik, I'm the only one so far that can do packaging in the group
[09:57] <seb128> are you expecting some new ones ? Somebody works on that ?
[09:57] <seb128> k
[09:58] <enrico> I'd like to change that, though, as I now have a full-time job and I don't think I can keep up
[09:58] <enrico> seb128: I've been disconnected and not reading lists, so I'm not updated on what's the current status of things :(
[09:59] <seb128> k
[09:59] <seb128> anybody to ping to have an idea if you are waiting on new translations before updating the package ?
[10:00] <doko> seb128: did the patch work for you?
[10:00] <seb128> doko: ups, not tried. A sec I'll do now
[10:01] <seb128> pitti_: I'll do some translations updates today, could you run a langue-pack update this afternoon, some of them are outdated (due to the new version or 2.9/2.10 bug) and that would be nice to have an update on this plan :)
[10:02] <pitti_> seb128: yeah, I planned this anyway
[10:02] <pitti_> seb128: do you upload gdm?
[10:02] <seb128> rock
[10:02] <seb128> not planned no
[10:02] <pitti_> okay, then I recompile it myself to get the tarball
[10:02] <enrico> seb128: froud (Sean Wheller) is usually very knowledgeable of what happens
[10:02] <seb128> k, thanks
[10:02] <enrico> what's a language pack anyway?
[10:03] <pitti_> enrico: it's a deb which contains all ubuntu/main translations for a given language
[10:04] <pitti_> enrico: we strip mo files from the debs and ship them in per-language debs now
[10:04] <enrico> oh.  And the documentations are in ubuntu main, I guess.  Is that done automatically?
[10:04] <pitti_> enrico: yes
[10:04] <pitti_> enrico: does the documentation use gettext?
[10:05] <seb128> no
[10:05] <fabbione> pitti_: did you read above?
[10:05] <seb128> the about ubuntu and other stuff are xml files
[10:05] <enrico> pitti_: cool
[10:05] <pitti_> fabbione: yes, I just noticed and reuploaded to Ubuntu (sorry)
[10:05] <fabbione> ehhee
[10:05] <seb128> raahhhhh
[10:06] <seb128> this broken spatial mode is lame
[10:06] <pitti_> fabbione: dput on my laptop is configured for Debian, on my desktop it's Ubuntu (I mix that up from time to time)
[10:09] <Keybuk> seb128: itym "spethial" mode ;)
[10:09] <fabbione> Keybuk: somebody broken planet.d.o
[10:09] <Mithrandir> fabbione: somebody's broken gluck
[10:09] <seb128> bah
[10:10] <fabbione> ah 
[10:10] <seb128> doko: the ooo patch works fine
[10:10] <pitti> Kamion: ping
[10:10] <seb128> pitti: gamin upload, nice :)
[10:11] <pitti> seb128: thank fabbione :-)
[10:11] <seb128> yeah, he has done a rocking work on that :)
[10:11] <pitti> seb128: I spent over four hours with debugging, but he was better
[10:11] <doko> seb128: thanks for testing
[10:11] <seb128> np
[10:12] <seb128> don't forget the french translations for the menu items if you do an upload :)
[10:12] <seb128> hi mvo :)
[10:12] <pitti> Morning mvo
[10:12] <mvo> hey seb128 
[10:13] <mvo> morning all
[10:13] <seb128> mvo: like for pitti, Sebasti*e*n :p
[10:13] <pitti> seb128: you have the right to call me Mertin :-)
[10:13] <seb128> ah ah
[10:13] <mvo> morning pitti 
[10:13] <mvo> seb128: I'll stick with seb, it's otherwise too long in the early morning ;)
[10:14] <seb128> mvo: just saying that because you have written Sebastian for the translation commit yesterday :p
[10:15] <mvo> seb128: *cough* ups
[10:15] <seb128> you though I would not notice ? :p
[10:16] <pitti> seb128: I suspect you have a procmail rule catching "Sebastian"
[10:16] <mvo> meh, you have your eyes everywhere :) I'll take better care in the future
[10:17] <daniels> heh
[10:17] <daniels> just like Overfiend and Brandon
[10:17] <seb128> mvo: :p
[10:17] <seb128> pitti: I'm waiting for a working beagle to track them in fact :p
[10:18] <mvo> haha
[10:22] <pitti> elmo: what is the update interval of the rookery mirror? changelogs are lagging behind for about three days
[10:22] <seb128> oh, speaking about changelogs
[10:23] <seb128> mvo: is update-manager supposed to get changelogs for hoary packages ?
[10:24] <mvo> seb128: yes
[10:24] <seb128> it doesn't here
[10:24] <seb128> I should open a bug
[10:24] <seb128> oh, there is one
[10:25] <pitti> seb128: as I said, changelogs are lagging behind (on changelogs.ubuntu.com)
[10:25] <seb128> pitti: how much ?
[10:25] <pitti> seb128: <pitti> elmo: what is the update interval of the rookery mirror? changelogs are lagging behind for about three days
[10:25] <seb128> I don't remember getting a changelog displayed 
[10:25] <seb128> ups, sorry
[10:25] <seb128> k
[10:25] <seb128> I update too ofter :p
[10:25] <pitti> seb128: that's because you upload so often :-)
[10:25] <seb128> often even
[10:26] <pitti> seb128: same for my CVE overview, I still see bugs that were closed three days ago
[10:26] <mvo> IIRC elmo said, that the sync will happen now 4 times a day and changelogs are generated at the same rate
[10:26] <seb128> nice
[10:26] <mvo> but it isn't right now :/
[10:26] <pitti> mvo: from now on? or is this supposed to be like this for some time now?
[10:28] <mvo> pitti: last week I think
[10:29] <pitti> hmm, then this is broken
[10:30] <astharot> buongiorno
[10:30] <d3vic3> bonjour 
[10:30] <mvo> pitti: 29.Mar is the latest update apparently
[10:31] <pitti> yeah, that fits
[10:31] <pitti> Hi astharot 
[10:31] <astharot> hi MArtin
[10:31] <pitti> astharot: why in lower case today? :-)
[10:32] <astharot> pitti: because today I'm less important than other days eheh ;)
[10:32] <mvo> it's looks like that is exaclty the date that elmo fixed the syncing of rookery 
[10:33] <mvo> thom, elmo: could someone please have a look why the mirror on rookery is outdated?
[10:34] <seb128> elmo: loudmouth sync please
[10:35] <fabbione> i386 warty -> hoary upgrade is GO here
[10:35] <fabbione> daniels: 2 possible issues
[10:36] <daniels> fabbione: yep?
[10:36] <astharot> someone can suggest me if my postfix-gld settings are good? :)
[10:36] <fabbione> daniels: xfree86-common isn't purged by synpatic.. it's deinstalled but not purged
[10:36] <daniels> fabbione: right
[10:36] <fabbione> daniels: oh only that one
[10:36] <daniels> ok
[10:36] <fabbione> hmmm no
[10:37] <fabbione> we might have issues with nvidia
[10:37] <daniels> i'm wondering if it wouldn't be too invasive to delete it if it matches a certain md5sum
[10:37] <fabbione> because of nvidia-glx symlinks to the latest version
[10:37] <daniels> oh?
[10:37] <fabbione> that might create a mistmatch between kernel modules and userland
[10:38] <fabbione> i am going to check that in the next test
[10:39] <fabbione> in the worst we can add an errata that nvidia users must reboot after the upgrade or something
[10:39] <fabbione> i don't think there is any clean way out of it
[10:39] <daniels> yeah, i discussed that with mdz
[10:39] <daniels> there's nothing much we can do there
[10:39] <daniels> if kernel module != userland, you're pretty screwed
[10:39] <fabbione> right
[10:39] <daniels> not just nvidia, really
[10:39] <fabbione> also X asked me to confirm the resolution on upgrade
[10:39] <daniels> fglrx as well
[10:40] <fabbione> it's not a big deal 
[10:40] <daniels> yeah, that sucks; i've been looking at ways to get around that
[10:40] <daniels> to mark that we're coming from xfree86 and try to carry the configuration through as much as possible
[10:40] <daniels> we're at the stage now where it should absolutely not do a single thing to your config on regular upgrades
[10:40] <daniels> only on reconfigures/first installs
[10:41] <fabbione> daniels: i think the problem is located in the migration template thingy that happens after the debconf question
[10:41] <fabbione> i will try to look at it better in the next test
[10:41] <fabbione> but i don't consider it critical at all
[10:41] <fabbione> it's the only question that shows up during the entire process
[10:42] <fabbione> Riddell: ping?
[10:42] <d3vic3> erm, is there anything like vertical tabs in vim ?
[10:42] <daniels> fabbione: yeah
[10:42] <daniels> fabbione: i am checking it out, though :) i was looking at it today
[10:42] <Treenaks> d3vic3: uh.. long lines of spaces might look like that.. and maybe there's a unicode char that does it?
[10:42] <Treenaks> d3vic3: why?
[10:43] <fabbione> daniels: i don't think a fix is worth the risk of breaking X
[10:43] <daniels> fabbione: yeah
[10:43] <daniels> i have two more fixes to make anyway
[10:43] <d3vic3> I mean, tabs as in opening two  files at the same time, and having them side by side 
[10:44] <Treenaks> d3vic3: :split filename
[10:44] <d3vic3> oh yah 
[10:44] <Treenaks> d3vic3: and afaik it's possible to split both horizontally and vertically
[10:44] <d3vic3> thanks Treenaks 
[10:44] <Treenaks> but don't ask me how :)
[10:44] <d3vic3> lol 
[10:45] <daniels> fabbione: oh, btw
[10:45] <seb128> pitti: should I update g-v-m to 1.2.1 ? The changelog is pretty short (translations and some small code cleanup) ?
[10:46] <daniels> fabbione: whenever we update nvidia-glx with a new upstream version, we need nvidia-kernel-common as well
[10:46] <daniels> fabbione: i'm putting up 7174 packages for testing now
[10:46] <pitti> seb128: if our patches still apply, yes
[10:46] <pitti> seb128: if not, I can do it as well
[10:46] <fabbione> daniels: right.. i forgot about that
[10:46] <fabbione> daniels: please do so, but be fast. i can test them here
[10:47] <seb128> pitti: k, I'll have a look and let you know, should be fine
[10:47] <daniels> fabbione: yeah, I'm uploading i386 now, building amd64 on concordia
[10:47] <seb128> pitti: BTW should I upload hal too, to fix the .da translation typo ?
[10:48] <pitti> seb128: if you wish?
[10:48] <seb128> k, I'll do
[10:48] <pitti> seb128: you wanna win the upload race again, do you? :-)
[10:48] <fabbione> daniels: ok, i can test i386 here. we will need to ask mdz or somebody to test amd64
[10:48] <daniels> fabbione: yeah, I can test amd64 here
[10:48] <seb128> pitti: yeah :)
[10:48] <daniels> i don't think anything will break on top of 7167
[10:48] <daniels> because it's very rare they do an errata release
[10:52] <fabbione> we have 115 bugs with severity Maj or >
[10:52] <fabbione> most of which from warty
[10:53] <daniels> yeah :\
[10:53] <fabbione> we need a bugzilla cleanup team 
[10:53] <fabbione> badly
[10:54] <pitti> fabbione: the other day I closed > 30 bugs in a matter of two hours
[10:54] <pitti> fabbione: but they keep coming :-/
[10:54] <pitti> fabbione: we could do a big bz cleaning and love day the day after the release
[10:54] <fabbione> pitti: yes, i know. i am talking about old warty bugs that are actually fixed in hoary
[10:54] <fabbione> that would reduce the parsing time of a few eons
[10:54] <pitti> yes, that's what I mean
[10:56] <fabbione> does Thommas Hood irc?
[10:59] <pitti> Morning carlos
[11:01] <carlos> pitti: morning
[11:02] <seb128> hi carl
[11:02] <seb128> hi carlos 
[11:02] <carlos> hi *
[11:05] <infinity> daniels : <whine>.. Make the trident driver not suck on my laptop </whine>
[11:05] <fabbione> RUN TO THE HILLLLSSSS ... RUN FOR YOUR LIIIIIIFES
[11:05] <pitti> ?
[11:06] <pitti> fabbione: new kernel upload with fixed inotify? :-)
[11:06] <fabbione> iron maiden.. never mind. i am on total crack today
[11:06] <fabbione> wow 10 bugs in 10 minutes
[11:06] <fabbione> all maj
[11:06] <fabbione> that's a good rate
[11:06] <pitti> fabbione: indeed. it took me half an hour to close one :-)
[11:07] <fabbione> pitti: i think they are mostly from debian import thingy
[11:07] <fabbione> 8609 is one of them for ex
[11:07] <fabbione> pitti: and it took me 3 days to close 7078
[11:07] <pitti> fabbione: well, I meant a real one :-)
[11:08] <fabbione> yeah
[11:08] <fabbione> wasn't 7078 a real one?
[11:09] <seb128> pitti: the configure change is "mount_path umount_path" to "mount_program umount_program" ?
[11:12] <pitti> seb128: erm, what do you mean exactly? this sounds a bit weird
[11:12] <seb128> pitti: debian/patches/20_specify_programs.patch
[11:12] <pitti> seb128: this allows to change /bin/mount and /bin/umount to other programs (pmount) with a --configure option
[11:12] <seb128> pitti: you regenerate the whole configure ? in fact there is only one conflict to the patch one it
[11:13] <pitti> seb128: the patch contains the configure changes
[11:13] <seb128> the conflict is on the "ac_subst_vars=" line, 
[11:13] <seb128> I know, just wondering how you update it usually
[11:13] <seb128> you run the whole autostuff ?
[11:14] <pitti> seb128: hmm, I don't know by heart any more, but I think I ran autoconf only
[11:14] <seb128> k, thanks
[11:15] <seb128> right, that seems to do the trick
[11:15] <seb128> thanks
[11:19] <pitti> bah, this damn wiki breakage also killed my USN
[11:20] <daniels> infinity: Dude, you said trident.  Here's $5, get another laptop.
[11:21] <daniels> infinity: Or spend a lot more than that, but get an X40. :)
[11:21] <fabbione> daniels: i still have a laptop with a trident.. shuuush boy
[11:21] <Lathiat> the magic is to buy hardware kernel hackers have
[11:21] <Lathiat> and X hackers, and suspend hackers
[11:21] <Lathiat> (if its a laptop)
[11:22] <daniels> fabbione: that's your fault for not having an X40 :)
[11:22] <infinity> daniels : Well, it works with vesa, it's just irritating. :)
[11:22] <daniels> infinity: Heh.  CyberBlade?
[11:22] <infinity> daniels : Nasty video corruption with the trident driver.  Oh well.  I don't care enough to worry.
[11:22] <daniels> Heh.
[11:22] <infinity> 9525DVD.
[11:23] <infinity> Not that the DVD means much, since there's no DVD player in the machine.
[11:23] <daniels> I blame fabbione; he has one, so he should fix it. :)
[11:23] <daniels> Hah.
[11:23] <Lathiat> haha
[11:25] <fabbione> daniels: you know you just set a gdb break on your life span?
[11:25] <fabbione> :P
[11:26] <infinity> Too much hacking with too little result makes Adam a grumpy boy.
[11:26] <fabbione> i need to get some serious food today
[11:27] <fabbione> it's 7 hours that i am awake and i still have to eat breakfast
[11:27] <trukulo> daniels, one question: is boot on fresh hoary as fast as warty updated to hoary?
[11:28] <fabbione> trukulo: yes it should be exactly the same modulo user crap
[11:28] <pitti> fabbione: why do you get up at 4 am?
[11:28] <seb128> pitti: bah forget about g-v-m 1.2.1 in fact, they have broken the string freeze
[11:28] <fabbione> pitti: insomnia caused by stress
[11:28] <trukulo> fabbione, so i don't understand, now hoary boot seems slower in my laptop than in warty
[11:28] <fabbione> trukulo: you asked something different
[11:29] <fabbione> trukulo: boot time of warty != boot time of hoary
[11:29] <infinity> trukulo : The overall boot process may have slowed down due to mmapping larger binaries, or who knows what.
[11:29] <pitti> seb128: so we just skip it for hoary?
[11:29] <trukulo> fabbione, no, wait, i mean
[11:29] <trukulo> hoary boot is supposed to be faster than warty, right?
[11:29] <seb128> pitti: right
[11:30] <pitti> argh, not another PHP vuln... *grumpf*
[11:30] <fabbione> trukulo: it should be.
[11:30] <fabbione> but there are too many vars to optimize that
[11:30] <infinity> pitti : The imagesize one?
[11:30] <fabbione> kernel, hw, etc.
[11:30] <infinity> pitti : I'm working on patches for that right now.
[11:30] <pitti> infinity: yeah
[11:30] <pitti> infinity: oh, cool
[11:30] <trukulo> so if hoary boot is slower than warty... it's because i didn't installed freshly?
[11:30] <infinity> pitti : And hoary isn't vulnerable.
[11:30] <trukulo> fabbione, i know, i know
[11:30] <pitti> infinity: http://www.idefense.com/application/poi/display?id=222&type=vulnerabilities&flashstatus=true  that one
[11:30] <trukulo> but i looked everything and didn't understand it
[11:30] <pitti> infinity: neat, why not?
[11:31] <trukulo> just wanna know if anyone has compared booting speed in fresh hoary, and updated from warty
[11:31] <infinity> pitti : I'll upload fixed warty sources tomorrow and ping you to do a security announcement.
[11:31] <pitti> infinity: cool :-)
[11:31] <infinity> pitti : hoary isn't vulnerable because it's CVS updated to "almost 4.3.11, but not quite"... It includes those fixes, at any rate.
[11:31] <fabbione> trukulo: that should be the same.
[11:31] <pitti> infinity: you rock :-)
[11:31] <fabbione> trukulo: but no.. i don't have numbers
[11:32] <infinity> pitti : Tell mdz and sabdfl that.. <cough>
[11:32] <trukulo> fabbione, and impressions at least? can you compare it, by eye?
[11:32] <fabbione> trukulo: there are no impressions in benchmarking. either you measure or not
[11:32] <fabbione> trukulo: plus i never reboots my machines
[11:33] <fabbione> or almost
[11:33] <infinity> pitti : Do you prefer mail, or being tackled on IRC when I see you?
[11:33] <fabbione> and when they boot i do it remotly and waiting for a ping to come back :)
[11:33] <pitti> infinity: IRC will be fine
[11:33] <fabbione> anyway
[11:33] <fabbione> time to cook food
[11:33] <fabbione> later
[11:33] <infinity> pitti : Alright.  I'll have packages for you tomorrow, then.
[11:38] <dholbach> hey!
[11:43] <dholbach> so you all heard what happened to the wiki?
[11:44] <dholbach> ... heard the explanation?
[11:44] <daniels> do tell!
[11:44] <dholbach> Sorry about the wiki reversion. A data file from Apr. 1st was used to 
[11:44] <dholbach> rebuild the system (which was getting very flaky). The re-build data 
[11:44] <dholbach> structures were re-inserted on Apr. 3rd causing the changes made in 
[11:44] <dholbach> those two days to drop out. However, those changes do exist in a backup 
[11:44] <dholbach> copy and we will fish them out today (Apr. 4th) and merge them back in 
[11:44] <dholbach> where possible. Sorry for any irritation we have caused.
[11:44] <daniels> oops
[11:44] <pitti> dholbach: oh, I just recreated my Linux USN which got dropped, too
[11:45] <dholbach> pitti: i'll go on, rebuilding my list, must do it for my mental health :-)
[11:45] <pitti> D'oh
[11:46] <pitti> dholbach: but now that you know that the list can be restored, why bother doing it again?
[11:48] <dholbach> hrm... not that i don't trust henrik and his crew, but it needs to be done soon
[11:48] <Mithrandir> pitti: do you have any thoughts on who should run fsck on usb thumbdrives?
[11:48] <dholbach> pitti: i think it will take them some time
[11:49] <Mithrandir> pitti: pmount just mounts it and the kernel complains a bit
[11:49] <pitti> Mithrandir: hmm, does vfat have a mount counter?
[11:49] <pitti> guess not
[11:49] <Mithrandir> pitti: I don't use vfat on my thumb drive.
[11:49] <Mithrandir> (or at least not on the one with my gpg key and such)
[11:49] <pitti> Mithrandir: I never thought about this TBH
[11:50] <Mithrandir> pitti: we might want to think about it for breezy
[11:50] <pitti> yeah, indeed
[11:50] <pitti> Mithrandir: for ext2 etc. the check _could_ be integrated into pmount, but it will take awfully long, I guess
[11:50] <pitti> Mithrandir: like, pmount --fsck /dev/foo
[11:51] <Mithrandir> pitti: yeah, it should then give feedback to g-v-m or something, so it can pop up a "checking file system"
[11:51] <pitti> yeah
[11:51] <pitti> Mithrandir: added to my todo list
[11:51] <Mithrandir> cool, thanks
[11:58] <ogra> morning
[11:58] <Mithrandir> hi ogra
[11:59] <pitti> Moin ogra
[12:03] <thom> fabbione: jdthood iirc (Thomas Hood)
[12:04] <seb128> mvo: hum, food, good idea :)
[12:04] <mvo> :)
[12:08] <pitti> ARGH, new mozilla vulns, too (hello thom :-( )
[12:09] <thom> _more_?
[12:09] <thom> geez
[12:09] <pitti> infinity: still here?
[12:10] <pitti> thom: infinity wants to join your "mozilla fix for warty" strike force, if you want :-)
[12:10] <daniels> ok guys, *ANYONE* with an nvidia card, please whack 'deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~daniels/l-r-m/ $(ARCH)/' in your sources.list and upgrade, to test if the new drivers up there work.  this is hoary fodder.
[12:10] <daniels> whether it works or fails, I'd love to know about it
[12:11] <pitti> daniels: this is even newer than fabbione's crack?
[12:11] <daniels> indeed
[12:11] <daniels> they put out an errata release
[12:12] <daniels> thanks dude
[12:18] <pitti> daniels: glxgears, glxinfo, tuxracer and mplayer work fine
[12:18] <pitti> daniels: however, it failed at first because I still had the old module loaded
[12:19] <pitti> daniels: what about adding "rmmod nvidia && modprobe nvidia" to postinst configure on upgrading?
[12:26] <Kamion> pitti: yo?
[12:27] <pitti> Kamion: AFAICS the "dhcp" source package is only in main because of the udeb, right? Is there any chance for breezy to build an udeb from dhcp3?
[12:27] <pitti> Kamion: Good morning, BTW :-)
[12:29] <thom> Kamion: did you see what i wrote at you over the weekend? (regarding skewed clocks during install)
[12:30] <Kamion> pitti: udeb isn't used 'cos it's too enormous
[12:31] <pitti> Kamion: the dhcp3 udeb you mean?
[12:31] <pitti> hmm, ok
[12:31] <Kamion> which I think continues to be a valid reason for Ubuntu, even if we care a bit less about size than Debian; make dhcp3-client-udeb smaller :)
[12:31] <Kamion> thom: I saw similar-looking bug mail, dunno if that was from you too
[12:31] <pitti> Kamion: oh, I just wondered, because the source package is in main, but all debs are in universe
[12:32] <pitti> Kamion: bug mail> no, not from me
[12:33] <thom> Kamion: no, not my bug mail
[12:33] <Kamion> thom: #8496
[12:38] <pitti> ogra: is your hwdb server down ATM?
[12:38] <ogra> nope
[12:38] <ogra> i'm looking at it
[12:39] <pitti> ogra: I just tried to submit data from my desktop, it hangs at "Connecting to..."
[12:39] <ogra> yeah, might be slow, i'm waiting for a review of some of my bzip server code to speed things up <hint>
[12:40] <ogra> *g*
[12:42] <thom> elmo: thanks for the enigmail sync
[12:49] <thom> Kamion: <+quinophex> thom: no, it was a different error message
[12:56] <thom> aaargh, evms is giving me dm-linear warnings and not setting up my /home
[12:56] <thom> this is *not* good
[12:57] <thom> (clean install)
[01:10] <pitti> elmo: remstats sync, please
[01:23] <elmo> pitti: nothing to sync?
[01:23] <seb128> elmo: loudmouth sync please :)
[01:23] <elmo> [NOT Updating - Modified]  loudmouth_0.17.2-1ubuntu1 (vs 0.17.2-2)
[01:24] <elmo> ok to override?
[01:24] <pitti> elmo: hmm, 1.0.13a-5 is in sid
[01:24] <seb128> elmo: yep
[01:24] <elmo> 07:24:27@newraff| ~ $m remstats -s unstable
[01:24] <elmo>   remstats |  1.0.13a-4 |      unstable | source, all
[01:24] <elmo> pitti: ?
[01:24] <elmo> seb128: done
[01:25] <seb128> thanks
[01:25] <pitti> elmo: odd: http://packages.qa.debian.org/r/remstats/news/1.html
[01:25] <pitti> elmo: ah, it's still in incoming
[01:25] <pitti> elmo: sorry
[01:25] <Robot101> seb128: does ubuntu patch gaim?
[01:26] <froud> seb128: if you can join #ubuntu-doc for a few minutes to discuss i18n it would be good
[01:26] <ogra> oh froud, while youre here....
[01:27] <seb128> Robot101: hum ? no, basically we have the debian package
[01:27] <seb128> Robot101: we had a patch for eds 1.2 IIRC, but that's not required with the current version
[01:27] <seb128> why ?
[01:28] <ogra> froud, i'd like to have a list of the collected data in the hwdb-doc and the bug url should get changed to malone or bugzilla instead of the mailing list....i'll mail you some changes....
[01:28] <froud> ogra: send mail with wish list :-)
[01:29] <ogra> froud, i'll do :)
[01:29] <froud> ;-)
[01:30] <Robot101> seb128: watch out for eds 1.2, it has some md5 functions which are called the same as stuff in the oscar prpl, so you could get odd crashes on AIM I think... some local symbols needed somewhere, but enabling them breaks the perl plugin
[01:30] <Mithrandir> isn't the perl plugin broken already?
[01:30] <Robot101> it's... er... bitrotting quickly
[01:30] <froud> pitti: can you join #ubuntu-doc to discuss i18n
[01:30] <Robot101> it works for some things :)
[01:30] <pitti> yes
[01:31] <ogra> mvo, ping
[01:31] <mvo> ogra: pong
[01:31] <ogra> ah, great
[01:31] <ogra> mvo, we have a serious problem with gksudo
[01:32] <pitti> carlos: Hi, can you please join #ubuntu-doc for a bit?
[01:32] <mvo> ogra: tell me please
[01:32] <ogra> mvo, if i run gksudo time-admin and click ok in the app, the screensaver daemon crashes....
[01:32] <ogra> mvo, doesnt happen with sudo time-admin....
[01:33] <ogra> mvo, the prob here is, he user doesnt recognize the screensaver crash if he runs it from the menu...
[01:33] <ogra> s/he/the
[01:33] <mvo> ogra: let me see if I can reproduce it
[01:34] <ogra> mvo, just click "Ok" in the time-admin tool
[01:34] <ogra> the Ok normally restarts xscreensaver cleanly....
[01:35] <ogra> but ti doesnt come up again on gksudo usage....i suspect the locking code of gksudo colides with xscreensaver
[01:35] <ogra> collides even
[01:35] <mvo> ogra: "gksudo time-admin" and then clicking ok seems to work here. any additional steps I need to take? 
[01:35] <mvo> ogra: let's go on /msg to not spam the channel too much, ok?
[01:36] <smurfix> elmo: please sync gimp-ufraw
[01:36] <ogra> mvo, nope, even seb128 could reproduce it yesterday
[01:36] <seb128> mvo: you don't get a crash dialog, but try to lock the screen now
[01:36] <mvo> seb128: oh, ok. no longer working
[01:37] <elmo> smurfix: source package names in future pls
[01:37] <elmo> smurfix: done
[01:38] <smurfix> elmo: OK, I'll remember, thanks
[01:39] <zyga> mvo: hey
[01:40] <mvo> hey zyga 
[01:41] <pitti> elmo: btw, can you please remove the b0rken cyrus-sasl and openswan uploads from the warty-security queue?
[01:41] <elmo> pitti: how come?
[01:41] <pitti> elmo: they are sitting there for ages
[01:41] <elmo> ...
[01:41] <pitti> elmo: you still know the "cyrus-sasl did not build for warty" mess?
[01:41] <pitti> elmo: the libdb3 vs libdb4.2 FTBFS
[01:42] <pitti> elmo: I tried to fix it, but it's nontrivial and universe only
[01:42] <elmo> what about openswan?
[01:42] <mdke> dholbach, ping
[01:42] <dholbach> mdke:  pong
[01:42] <mdke> wow
[01:42] <mdke> 5 seconds
[01:43] <dholbach> ;-)
[01:43] <mdke> dholbach, listen, you are aware of the problems with the wiki
[01:43] <mdke> ?
[01:43] <dholbach> mdke: yes
[01:43] <mdke> ok fine
[01:43] <mdke> just checking
[01:43] <dholbach> mdke: i'll msg you the text
[01:43] <mdke> i thought as the top wiki contributor i should check that you knew
[01:43] <mdke> :p
[01:43] <pitti> elmo: similar issue, opensc never built for warty (because it b-deps on cyrus-sasl)
[01:44] <pitti> elmo: lamont described the situation the other day
[01:44] <CarlK> trying to test Daniel's
[01:44] <CarlK>  1.0.7174 nvidia package, - is there an apt-get way of doing this? 
[01:44] <ogra> CarlK, add his repo
[01:44] <CarlK> added
[01:44] <ogra> update and install
[01:45] <koke> elmo: is already my key on the ring? (sorry for the insistence :))
[01:47] <CarlK> apt-get install linux-restricted-modules-2.6.10-5-386 -is that all I need?
[01:47] <dholbach> OH YES... i did it again - pitti: wiki.ubuntu.com/AptGetOrg
[01:47] <pitti> dholbach: congrats :-)
[01:47] <ogra> CarlK, just do an upgrade....
[01:48] <pitti> CarlK: nvidia-glx as well, I suppose
[01:49] <dholbach> elmo: after reviewing the apt-get.org stuff twice, there are some packages left which pitti will review for security stuff and some need license revision, apart from that "GO" :-)
[01:49] <CarlK> woa... 76meg
[01:50] <ogra> yeah, and a big applause to dholbach from everyone please, he really reviewed all the apt-get.org repos !!
[01:50] <dholbach> ogra: twice
[01:50] <dholbach> ;-)
[01:50] <ogra> twice !!
[01:50] <Robot101> so why isn't this stuff in debian already? :)
[01:51] <pitti> it shouldn't :-)
[01:51] <ogra> Robot101, make dholbach a DD ;)
[01:51] <CarlK> what does it take to get apt to use a proxy? (squid is setup, just need to tell apt to use it)
[01:51] <dholbach> ogra: hrm... i wouldnt sign all of them :-)
[01:51] <CarlK> whoops, ill do this part in #users
[01:51] <ogra> dholbach, me neither :)
[01:51] <Robot101> CarlK: in /etc/apt/apt.conf, Acquire::http::Proxy "http://server:port/";
[01:51] <CarlK> thats easy enougn - thanks
[01:52] <ogra> CarlK, export http_proxy="http://your.proxy.org:8080" works too
[01:54] <Lathiat> and ftp_proxy
[01:54] <ogra> Lathiat, for http repos ?
[01:54] <Lathiat> nah if you have ftp repos
[01:55] <ogra> heh
[01:55] <Lathiat> most http servers will fetch the for you
[01:55] <Lathiat> s/http/proxy
[01:59] <mdke> heh we're top of distrowatch 6 months :D
[02:00] <Lathiat> yeh :)
[02:01] <CarlK> shoudn't I see a nvidia splash as X starts?
[02:01] <Lathiat> not if your not using the binary drivers
[02:01] <ogra> and place seven for 12 months ;)
[02:07] <CarlK> is there a shell command that will report if I am using the binary drivers?
[02:10] <pitti> CarlK: try "grep /etc/X11/xorg.conf"
[02:10] <elmo> koke: there's still some problems, I'm afraid - I'm working on them with mako and will let you know as soon as it is
[02:10] <pitti> CarlK: erm, "grep nvidia /etc/X11/xorg.conf"
[02:10] <carlos> pitti: I'm back
[02:10] <elmo> dholbach: mm, remind me where you put the list?
[02:10] <carlos> pitti: do you need me?
[02:10] <pitti> Hi carlos
[02:10] <pitti> carlos: in #ubuntu-docs
[02:10] <dholbach> elmo: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AptGetOrg
[02:12] <elmo>  MERGE ON PAIN OF DEATH
[02:12] <elmo> *giggle*
[02:12] <dholbach> elmo: DONT! TAKE! THOSE! :-)
[02:14] <doko> d3vic3: zope-backtalk packaging looks ok
[02:14] <fabbione> thom: thanks
[02:14] <kernel_panic> hi
[02:14] <kernel_panic> thom: hi
[02:17] <pitti> seb128: so you will upload all gnome 2.10.1 stuff by wednesday?
[02:17] <pitti> seb128: do you know whether all upstream packages contain all translations that have been submitted to gnome so far?
[02:18] <pitti> seb128: I need to know whether I shall take Adi's or upstreams version of the Xhosa translations
[02:18] <dholbach> pitti: from what i heard it'll be 2.10.(1/2) or something
[02:18] <Kamion> pitti: msgmerge them?
[02:18] <pitti> Kamion: Adi submitted them to gnome already
[02:18] <elmo> thom: err, dude
[02:18] <fabbione> yay for evolution-exachange! it's your birthday
[02:18] <elmo> thom: that enigmail has a b-d on a newer-than-hoary thunderbird
[02:19] <pitti> Kamion: however, msgmerge isn't a bad idea (I just need to integrate this into my scripts)
[02:20] <dholbach> i'm off for now, doing the laundry *wave*
[02:20] <thom> Mithrandir: are you not planning to update t-bird?
[02:20] <thom> kernel_panic: hi
[02:21] <kernel_panic> thom: as i said for the bug 8591 , the command I was running is "apt-get dist-upgrade"
[02:22] <Mithrandir> thom: I am, I just haven't done yet. :(
[02:23] <CarlK> ahh... thats the dist-upgrade command I was looking for !
[02:23] <thom> Mithrandir: poor enigmail is in depwait waiting for you ;-)
[02:24] <Mithrandir> thom: ok, doing it now, then
[02:24] <d3vic3> doko, cool 
[02:24] <d3vic3> doko, one more, fine ?
[02:24] <thom> kernel_panic: hmmph. i just did an upgrade from warty to hoary with no problems at all
[02:25] <thom> kernel_panic: had you made any major changes to your warty install?
[02:25] <kernel_panic> thom: yet I'm trying a apt-get remove mozilla-firefox
[02:25] <kernel_panic> thom: I just installed the warty 3 days ago 
[02:25] <kernel_panic> thom: no major changes
[02:26] <asdasd> yo
[02:28] <thom> kernel_panic: well, worksforme and works for mdz
[02:30] <Mithrandir> thom: building it now, I'll tell you how it works once it's done
[02:42] <ogra> guys, have you seen that ? http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/33934/index.html
[02:43] <zul> morning
[02:43] <thom> ogra: huh.
[02:43] <pitti> ogra: hmm, odd
[02:44] <crimsun> heh
[02:44] <ogra> isnt it trademark protected ?
[02:44] <Robot101> ogra: imagine-msn.com isn't microsoft's site afaict
[02:44] <thom> Robot101: (C) 2005 Microsoft
[02:44] <ogra> Robot101, copyright says something else
[02:44] <ogra> heh, thom 
[02:44] <Robot101> yes, but see whois
[02:45] <Robot101> it could just be phishing hotmail/MSN passwords
[02:45] <Robot101> it's not spaces.msn.com
[02:45] <Robot101> which looks like the real thing
[02:46] <ogra> Robot101, yeah it has the logo as favicon
[02:46] <thom> Robot101: look at the favico for spaces.msn.com
[02:46] <Robot101> oh ok
[02:46] <pitti> seb128: any word about a string freeze? I have to import Adi's stuff and gnome xh translations and all that
[02:47] <Robot101> in which case, bastards :P
[02:47] <seb128> pitti: what string freeze ?
[02:47] <pitti> seb128: I'm asking for one :)
[02:47] <seb128> GNOME ? hoary ? desktop .. ?
[02:47] <seb128> the strings are not changing
[02:47] <Treenaks> mjg59: do you have any clue about "Smart Batteries" and ACPI?
[02:47] <pitti> seb128: hoary/main
[02:47] <seb128> but I'm updating translations this afternoon
[02:47] <pitti> seb128: but primarily gnome
[02:48] <seb128> the desktop is string frozen for some weeks
[02:48] <seb128> ie: GNOME since 2.10.0
[02:48] <pitti> seb128: okay, please prod me if you uploaded all new packages
[02:48] <seb128> k
[02:50] <ogra> Treenaks, hal has this information in the BIOS device.... you could hack something to detect it :)
[02:52] <Treenaks> ogra: someone posted a driver on acpi-devel in January, but I can'd find anything newer than that
[02:53] <Treenaks> ogra: and that driver conflicts badly with the ac_adapter and battery modules
[02:53] <ogra> Treenaks, i saw that anywhere....but i doubt it is stable enough for usage
[02:53] <Treenaks> oh well... it'll stabilize eventually :)
[02:54] <mvo> ping ogra 
[02:54] <ogra> Treenaks, sure, but unlikely before hoary ...
[02:54] <Treenaks> ogra: I'm ok with breezy :)
[02:55] <ogra> ah
[03:04] <robertj> schwwet. Right click on a disk and select Duplicate in upstream gnome-cdburner
[03:12] <pitti> elmo/thom: can I please have tcl8.3-dev in concordia's hoary-i386 dchroot?
[03:13] <elmo> it's already installed?
[03:13] <elmo> (hoary-i386)root@concordia:~ # dpkg -l tcl8.3-dev | tail -1
[03:13] <elmo> ii  tcl8.3-dev     8.3.5-4        Tcl (the Tool Command Language) v8.3 - devel
[03:13] <pitti> elmo: ah sorry, that was a build-conflicts
[03:13] <pitti> elmo: nevermind
[03:14] <pitti> bah, build-conflicts is so ugly...
[03:14] <elmo> yes
[03:14] <elmo> I wish they'd never been added to policy at all
[03:16] <elmo> Kamion: ?
[03:18] <kernel_panic> thom: I did "apt-get remove mozilla-firefox" and yet I've the new version of firefox installed ... weird, isn't it ?
[03:22] <Mithrandir> how fun, the new mozilla just segfaults on startus
[03:22] <Mithrandir> s/.$/p/
[03:22] <thom> Mithrandir: moz-browser?
[03:23] <Mithrandir> nah, thunderbird
[03:23] <thom> ah
[03:24] <thom> heh
[03:24] <Mithrandir> nah, seems to work, probably just the running one which happened to crash
[03:25] <Kamion> elmo: yo?
[03:25] <elmo> Kamion: doesn't matter, sorry
[03:26] <Kamion> 'k
[03:45] <zul> oh that sucks...kernel 2.6.10 ftbs with gcc-4.0
[04:22] <daniels> pitti: yeah, i dunno that we can do that though, because if you upgrade from within x, the refcount will still be 1 thanks to your current session
[04:23] <pitti> daniels: yeah, I noticed that afterwards
[04:24] <mdke> which kernel is shipping with hoary? 2.6.10 or 11?
[04:24] <daniels> .10
[04:24] <mdke> ok thans
[04:24] <mdke> k
[04:32] <dholbach> re
[04:40] <pitti> Mithrandir: yay for tbird :-) I add the CANs to my list; could you add them to the changelog in the next update?
[04:40] <pitti> Mithrandir: I'll mail them to you
[04:40] <Mithrandir> pitti: sure, I just didn't see them on mozilla.org
[04:41] <pitti> Mithrandir: they are in the detailled advisories
[04:41] <Mithrandir> I'm lazy, I guess. :P
[04:41] <pitti> Mithrandir: i. e. if you click on the link on http://www.mozilla.org/projects/security/known-vulnerabilities.html
[04:41] <pitti> Mithrandir: no worries :-)
[04:42] <Mithrandir> yeah
[04:42] <pitti> Mithrandir: I have my override database for this, but it is nicer to keep them in the changelogs
[04:42] <Robot101> pitti: gaim has some IRC escaping problems that are fixed in 1.2.1... 1.1.4 and 1.0.0 are almost definitely vulnerable... do you want a patch?
[04:42] <pitti> Mithrandir: I mail you
[04:42] <Mithrandir> pitti: thanks
[04:42] <pitti> Robot101: I read about this, sure :-)
[04:42] <Robot101> pitti: I had to wait for sf's crappy CVS to let me pull the appropriate diff out
[04:42] <Robot101> I should be able to now :)
[04:43] <daniels> ok, new l-r-m with nvidia-glx 1.0.7174 uploading now
[04:44] <pitti> Mithrandir: oh, most of the detailed text don't have CANs, sorry :-) (just looked at the first one)
[04:44] <pitti> Mithrandir: so I dig them out from the CVE database
[04:44] <Mithrandir> pitti: I'll whatever you send me, so you'll be happy. :)
[04:44] <CarlK> daniels - I have 2 nvidia boxes - you want any more tests?
[04:45] <daniels> CarlK: sure, can't hurt at all :)
[04:45] <daniels> it'll be about 1.5h before it hits the archive, all things considered
[04:45] <daniels> my uplink is crap
[04:46] <CarlK> if I install hoary from the current install.iso, add your repo url to /etc/apt/sources.list, apt-get update - then what?
[04:47] <daniels> apt-get dist-upgrade
[04:47] <CarlK> what about editing .conf files and such?
[04:48] <daniels> oh right
[04:48] <daniels> sudo nvidia-glx-config enable
[04:48] <CarlK> lol
[04:48] <CarlK> that could explain why nothing seemed to be working
[04:48] <CarlK> root@tsp2b:~ # nvidia-glx-config enable 
[04:48] <CarlK> -bash: nvidia-glx-config: command not found
[04:49] <daniels> and install the nvidia-glx package, sorry
[04:49] <daniels> with that, I'm going to bed; got a crippling headache
[04:49] <CarlK> take care
[04:49] <CarlK> drink some water ;)
[04:53] <dholbach> daniels: hope you feel better soon
[04:55] <Baby> hi koke
[04:57] <dholbach> bbl
[05:01] <pitti> Hi mvo, can you see again? :-)
[05:01] <ogra> heh
[05:02] <mvo> pitti: going to the optician is always depressing. but yes, I'm back :)
[05:03] <seb128> mvo: have you get an updated translation for synaptic ?
[05:03] <rjo> Where can I find the scripts used to generate the live CDs? I don't want to simply "customize" the images, bute regenerate them.
[05:04] <mvo> seb128: not yet
[05:04] <pitti> mvo: new Xh for synaptic is in your mbox :-)
[05:04] <mvo> pitti: thanks!
[05:04] <seb128> k
[05:05] <seb128> mvo: could you update g-a-i for the french translation today ? :)
[05:05] <koke> Baby: hi!
[05:05] <mvo> seb128: I did a g-a-i upload today, hasn't it hit the archive yet?
[05:05] <seb128> mvo: ups, I've not noticed it, sorry
[05:05] <seb128> I've not updated today :)
[05:06] <mvo> seb128: I'm not sure now, maybe I intended to upload it only :) let me check
[05:06] <koke> about translations, is there any way to know which packages have ubuntu patches which introduce new strings atm??
[05:07] <mvo> seb128: well, I think I only itended to upload :) I did it now
[05:08] <seb128> thanks
[05:11] <CarlK> Installed the April 1 hoary, the fools splash version ;), the only thing I have done was test the nvidia drivers, and it has decided to ignore the 3com nic, unless I modprobe it - anyone want to poke at it before I reinstall ?
[05:15] <pitti> carlos: here?
[05:17] <koke> pitti: I have a 07_translations.patch for rhythmbox with updated spanish strings
[05:18] <koke> but it seems there are quite more packages with new strings
[05:18] <pitti> koke: argh, I uploaded rhythmbox some two hours ago :-/
[05:18] <pitti> koke: but just mail them to me
[05:18] <pitti> koke: Ubuntu-specific strings?
[05:18] <koke> pitti: I guess, it's 100% translated in HEAD
[05:18] <koke> http://l10n-status.gnome.org/HEAD/es/extras/index.html
[05:19] <pitti> koke: we don't use head, we use 2.10 so far
[05:19] <pitti> koke: however, I have a script that can import from gnome
[05:23] <koke> pitti: I know , but I don't see rhythmbox in http://l10n-status.gnome.org/gnome-2.10/es/desktop/index.html
[05:23] <smurfix> Kamion: 
[05:24] <mvo> elmo: do you have a idea why rookerys mirror is not up-to-date?
[05:25] <elmo> mvo: gar, 'cos I'm a muppet
[05:26] <aj> a pirate muppet by the sounds of it
[05:26] <elmo> mvo: fixed - sorry
[05:26] <Robot101> pitti: got a patch... address?
[05:26] <elmo> (wrong name of sync script in crontab)
[05:27] <mvo> elmo: thanks :) 
[05:27] <pitti> Robot101: martin.pitt@ubuntu.com
[05:27] <pitti> elmo: great, thanks
[05:30] <zul> bbl
[05:31] <Robot101> pitti: sent
[05:35] <mdz> morning
[05:35] <pitti> Good morning mdz
[05:35] <ogra> morning mdz 
[05:41] <mvo> morning mdz!
[05:42] <Kamion> smurfix: pong
[05:42] <thom> morning mdz
[05:42] <seb128> hi mdz
[05:43] <smurfix> Kamion: Where do the keyboard name translations live? #8378 notes that the Norwegian one seems to have misplaced a comma
[05:44] <Kamion> smurfix: console-data/debian/po/, I think
[05:44] <Kamion> msgid "cz-lat2"
[05:44] <Kamion> msgstr "Tsjekkisk, cz-lat2"
[05:44] <Kamion> that looks promising
[05:44] <Kamion> might be others
[05:44] <smurfix> Kamion: OK, I'll dig through them
[05:45] <Kamion> surprised that po-debconf doesn't fix that up though
[05:45] <Kamion> smurfix: thanks
[05:45] <elmo> ugh
[05:45] <smurfix> Kamion: does po-debconf know to count commas?
[05:51] <mdz> daniels: ping?
[05:51] <Kamion> smurfix: I've no idea. I thought that was half the point of the __Choices: thing, but I don't really know.
[05:53] <mdz> seb128: so about how many 2.10.1 tarballs have been released?
[05:54] <seb128> mdz: 5-6
[05:56] <smurfix> Kamion: OK, fixed translations uploaded. Telling the __Choices builder to complain will have to wait a bit.
[06:00] <ogra> has anybody here experience with manning books ? 
[06:01] <mdz> "it also works fine, except that X totally locks up if I try to start kde or any kde program in gnome"
[06:01] <mdz> that doesn't sound very fine :-(
[06:07] <fabbione> mdz: when you have time, can you kindly set l-r-m bitch to daniels? kthxbye
[06:08] <fabbione> (in bugzilla i mean)
[06:13] <pitti> koke: thanks for the patch; btw, can you please send debdiffs in the future?
[06:14] <CarlK> mdz - (about 2 hours ago) daniels: with that, I'm going to bed; got a crippling headache
[06:15] <Kamion> smurfix: thanks
[06:15] <smurfix> Kamion: NP
[06:20] <ogra> argh....
[06:20] <ogra> seb128, who made the german translation for my .desktop file ???
[06:21] <pitti> ogra: probably me
[06:21] <ogra> pitti, Gertedatenbank ??
[06:21] <pitti> ogra: any better suggestion?
[06:21] <pitti> "Hardware-Datenbank" would be fine for me, too
[06:22] <pitti> but it's still Denglish
[06:22] <ogra> but its a bit more descriptive....i think
[06:23] <pitti> ogra: feel free to reupload and correct it :-)
[06:23] <koke> pitti: sure :)
[06:23] <ogra> pitti, i have to merge that anyway, because the new source package misses my work from the last three days....
[06:24] <ogra> pitti, but since its only the .desktop file....
[06:24] <pitti> ogra: so much the better, then it's not a translations-only upload
[06:24] <ogra> pitti, 'm just waiting for a go for the server code ;)
[06:24] <pitti> ogra: oh sorry, do you need this for the package?
[06:24] <ogra> but now i have to care for my GF a bit, its her b-day today
[06:24] <pitti> ogra: I was busy with other stuff, but I can look at it in 5 minutes if you need 
[06:25] <mvo> ogra: send greetings from the team then (at least from me)
[06:25] <ogra> pitti, during the day would be fine....i'll need the new server for the bzipped data transfer :) even tomorrow would be fine, i just want 1-2 days to make sure its working fine
[06:26] <ogra> mvo, i'll do :-D
[06:26] <pitti> koke: uploaded, thanks
[06:28] <mvo> zyga: thanks for your nice site about update-manager! that's really appreciated!
[06:28] <pitti> ogra: oh, you switched from perl to python?
[06:28] <ogra> yup
[06:28] <ogra> and added bz2 compression
[06:29] <ogra> pitti, i want it all in python...no code mixing :)
[06:33] <mdz> Kamion: was the debbugs mirror on macquarie not being updated or something?
[06:33] <mdz> there is a flood of bugs from debbugs today
[06:33] <mdz> and many of them are several days old
[06:34] <pitti> ogra: do you know about the cgitb module? 
[06:34] <elmo> mdz: spohr's IP changed
[06:34] <elmo> that possibly broke it
[06:34] <pitti> ogra: it might be worthwhile to add this
[06:34] <mdz> ah
[06:34] <ogra> pitti, the one that spams my /tmp with logfiles in the defult setup ? ;)
[06:35] <fabbione> elmo: due to dns cache expiration?
[06:35] <ogra> pitti, i'll add it :)
[06:35] <pitti> ogra: you can also have it log to the client for debugging :-)
[06:35] <pitti> ogra: just a suggestion, that's in no way relevant
[06:35] <elmo> hmm, except debbugs mirror should be mirroring off merkel, so I may be randomly making stuff up
[06:36] <Kamion> mdz: spohr's IP recently changed; it's possible that macquarie only just noticed
[06:36] <ogra> pitti, are you fine with the regex and input length checks so far ? i yes, i'll add them to the other online parts too...
[06:36] <fabbione> elmo: at the time i did setup the mirror you told me to use spohr :)
[06:36] <Kamion> oh, elmo said that
[06:36] <Kamion> fabbione: the merkel mirror might not have existed, or something
[06:36] <pitti> ogra: I'm still doing RTFM before evaluating your script 
[06:36] <fabbione> elmo: also.. if you want to move the debbugs mirror as a system cron on a dedicate user, you can kill my script and my access to maquarie
[06:36] <ogra> pitti, heh
[06:37] <fabbione> Kamion: i really can't remember.. it was almost a year ago
[06:37] <elmo> fabbione: eh, what access to spohr do you have?
[06:37] <fabbione> elmo: i don't have access to spohr
[06:37] <trulux> heya folks
[06:37] <pitti> hi trulux
[06:37] <fabbione> but the debbug mirror at the DC is done under my user on macquire? or whatever name
[06:37] <elmo> fabbione: so how are you mirroring it off there?
[06:38] <fabbione> elmo
[06:38] <fabbione> i really don't remember
[06:38] <fabbione> let me check
[06:40] <fabbione> elmo: FROM=bugs-mirror.debian.org
[06:40] <trulux> hey pitti 
[06:40] <trulux> howya?
[06:40] <fabbione> macquarie:/srv/debzilla.no-name-yet.com/scripts
[06:40] <elmo> yah, that's merkel
[06:40] <fabbione> elmo: if you want to run that stuff at system level, you can close my account to macquarie
[06:40] <elmo> fabbione: yah
[06:41] <fabbione> elmo: it's the only reason why i still have access
[06:41] <fabbione> elmo: if you want to do it now, i will kill the cronjob
[06:43] <Kamion> mdz: beyond the above, I don't actually have access to macquarie, so nothing to do with me :-)
[06:43] <mdz> Kamion: oh, I thought it was you who set up the debbugs mirror etc.
[06:43] <fabbione> mdz: i just handed over the debbugs mirror to admins@
[06:44] <fabbione> mdz: no i did.. 
[06:44] <mdz> ah, right
[06:44] <elmo> fabbione: don't have time right now
[06:44] <mvo> Kamion: do you know about the message from the installer "sed unsupported commend T" right after "Enable framebuffer" ? it scrolls by pretty fast (before the "Choose language" screen)?
[06:44] <fabbione> elmo: ok..
[06:44] <elmo> and I'm not taking responsiblity for it
[06:45] <elmo> my job is to admin, not take over orphaned services that people are bored of
[06:45] <fabbione> elmo: that wasn't the meaning of handing over the mirror
[06:45] <fabbione> i know how paranoid you are about people having accounts on machines
[06:46] <fabbione> and since the crontab is the only reason why i have access there
[06:46] <fabbione> ...
[06:46] <Kamion> mvo: yeah, it's a sed command unimplemented by busybox, I'd been meaning to implement it - seems to be harmless AFAICT though
[06:47] <CarlK> mvo - I have seen  "sed unsupported commend T" a few times - I am about to install, I'll grab a picture of it ;)
[06:47] <Kamion> CarlK: no need, I've seen it too, I know what it is
[06:47] <CarlK> k
[06:48] <thom> mdz: are you running evms on any of your current hoary boxes? having any problems with it?
[06:48] <mdz> thom: yes running, no problems
[06:48] <thom> hrmph
[06:48] <mdz> I'm not doing anything particularly fancy on hoary boxes, though
[06:48] <mdz> no EVMS-root
[06:48] <Mithrandir> do we support evms-root now?
[06:49] <Mithrandir> and if so, can you resize /?
[06:49] <mvo> Kamion: ok, I thought so, just wanted to be sure :)
[06:49] <Mitario> lo veryone
[06:50] <thom> i just have an evms /home which is a software raid 1 of two disks - and i get some weird dm-linear errors when i boot, and no /dev/evms/home , although /dev/evms/md/md1 is there and seems fine
[06:51] <Mithrandir> thom: yeah, that won't work
[06:51] <Mithrandir> no chance, can't fly, not with the bd_claim patch, unless evms keeps track of what goes where
[06:52] <Mithrandir> use RAID5 instead. :P
[06:52] <thom> Mithrandir: it worked until friday, at least
[06:52] <Mithrandir> it shouldn't have.
[06:52] <Mithrandir> or at least, I would imagine it shouldn't have.
[06:52] <thom> so what does this bd_claim patch do, and why?
[06:52] <Mithrandir> make it possible to claim a device multiple times.
[06:53] <Mithrandir> which is very nice if you want to use legacy and evms partitions on the same drive.
[06:53] <mvo> hey Mitario 
[06:53] <Mithrandir> (else, scanning for partitions claims the device, so you can't find evms volumes on it afterwards.  AIUI)
[07:15] <Treenaks> what's the average size of langpacks?
[07:29] <mdz> pitti: can you do a quick review of qscintilla for main?
[07:29] <mdz> pitti: and sip4-qt3?
[07:29] <seb128> mvo: I've sent you a mail with the update-manager french translation update, could you update the package with it ?
[07:30] <mvo> seb128: yes
[07:30] <seb128> thanks
[07:30] <seb128> (the mail with the typo fix)
[07:31] <seb128> mvo: can you change that too
[07:31] <seb128> msgstr "Ajoute un _cdrom"
[07:31] <seb128> to msgstr "Ajouter un _cdrom"
[07:34] <pitti> mdz: I'm back, I do it now
[07:34] <mdz> pitti: thanks
[07:35] <mdz> we have an unfortunate situation with hpijs
[07:35] <mdz> I asked elmo to import hplip for universe, without realizing that it superseded hpijs (main)
[07:35] <mvo> seb128: mind to send it as a patch also? 
[07:36] <mdz> I see little choice but to push forward with the hplip-built hpijs
[07:36] <pitti> mdz: do you know anybody with an InkJet to test this?
[07:36] <pitti> mdz: I don't :-(
[07:36] <seb128> mvo: k, a sec
[07:36] <mvo> seb128: thanks
[07:37] <mdz> pitti: I do
[07:37] <mdz> and it works fine here
[07:37] <mdz> but we have received bug #8102
[07:37] <mdz> our only other option is to re-version the old hpijs to supersede the hplip one
[07:38] <mdz> infinity: around?
[07:42] <seb128> mvo: should be fine now :)
[07:42] <mvo> seb128: thanks
[07:42] <mvo> seb128: I'll be away for ~1,5h now, but I'll merge and upload it when I'm back
[07:43] <seb128> k
[07:44] <seb128> pitti: when have you planned to update the language-packs ?
[07:44] <pitti> mdz: qscintilla is fine for me
[07:44] <seb128> mvo: do you mind if I update the package with it if pitti wants to roll the language-packs updates ?
[07:44] <mvo> seb128: go ahead
[07:44] <pitti> seb128: I want to upload -update packages still today, and final fresh base packages on Wed or Thu
[07:45] <seb128> pitti: k
[07:45] <seb128> mvo: k, thanks
[07:45] <pitti> seb128: I can wait a bit if necessary
[07:45] <mvo> but i'll be back soon and there is a pending xhosa translation 
[07:45] <seb128> pitti: time for dinner here, in 1 hours that's fine with you ?
[07:45] <pitti> seb128, mvo: that's fine, I'm here tonight and I can upload in ~ 2.5 hours, too
[07:45] <seb128> cool
[07:45] <seb128> thanks
[07:45] <seb128> bbl dinner :)
[07:46] <pitti> and no gf today :-)
[07:46] <pitti> seb128: enjoy
[07:46] <mvo> seb128, pitti: ok, will be the first thing I do when I come back
[07:46] <pitti> mvo: sure, no hurry :-)
[07:53] <pitti> mdz: sip4-qt3 is fine, too
[07:53] <mdz> pitti: thanks
[07:53] <elmo> seb128: ?
[07:54] <elmo> seb128: g-c-m FTBFS, if you didn't n otice
[08:25] <Riddell> did anything happen with the plan to have hoary-updates contain point releases of gnome etc?
[08:25] <Kamion> mdz: turns out merkel's bugs mirror was broken due to spohr's IP change; I've fixed it now
[08:25] <seb128> elmo: k, thanks
[08:29] <mdz> Kamion: as in, just now?  meaning there are *more* bugs incoming? ;-o
[08:31] <Kamion> mdz: right, I think just today's - scrollback suggests that aj kicked it manually last night, or something like that
[08:32] <sabdfl> elmo: when we publish new packages, do we leave old ones in the pool for a few days?
[08:33] <trukulo> ogra, you there? graveman is 0.3.10 now
[08:33] <elmo> sabdfl: yes
[08:33] <elmo> sabdfl: well, 24 hours, to be precise
[08:34] <elmo> tho, they're also available from http://morgue.ubuntu.com/ after that
[08:45] <mdz> elmo: is that the same as Debian?  I thought Debian waited longer
[08:46] <dholbach> hi!
[08:46] <elmo> mdz: debian has 1.5 days - but that's for testing
[08:46] <elmo> *shrug* happy to bump it up for us, if anyone wants, I just started conservatively
[08:48] <mdz> elmo: 24 hours is probably OK for us, given our default of doing apt-get update once/day
[08:48] <zyga> mvo: ping?
[08:50] <sabdfl> elmo: super, thanks
[09:00] <mdke> #7616 is fixed
[09:01] <mdke> thanks a million
[09:01] <pitti> mdke: cool
[09:01] <pitti> mdke: so it was a gamin bug artifact
[09:01] <mdke> yuhuh
[09:01] <pitti> mdke: can you please write that into bz and close the bug? :-)
[09:01] <mdke> i wrote it
[09:01] <pitti> mdke: these bugs were really a plague
[09:02] <mdke> didn't close tho
[09:02] <mdke> pitti, yeah i know :)
[09:02] <zyga> hmm
[09:02] <pitti> okay, I can close it myself :-)
[09:02] <mdke> pitti, thanks and well done on it
[09:02] <zyga> did something changed about how nautilus operates recently?
[09:02] <pitti> mdke: thank fabbione, he actually wrote the gamin patch :-)
[09:02] <pitti> zyga: yes, the spatial mode was disabled
[09:02] <zyga> pitti: arghh...
[09:02] <zyga> pitti: how to re-enable it?
[09:03] <seb128> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8516
[09:03] <pitti> zyga: some obscure gconf setting, please see the mailing list
[09:03] <seb128> pitti: no, the spatial mode is "broken" rather :p
[09:03] <zyga> pitti: would someone accept a patch that could add config option to re-enable it?
[09:03] <mdke> pitti, i retract the hug
[09:03] <seb128> pitti: that's a mix spatial/browser
[09:03] <zyga> pitti: I know some people hate it but some don't 
[09:04] <zyga> (and it's about choices)
[09:04] <seb128> zyga: there is already a bugzilla patch  for that
[09:04] <Kamion> zyga: might be worth your while catching up on the discussion first
[09:04] <seb128> zyga: feel free to read the bug/comment on it
[09:04] <zyga> seb128, Kamion: thanks, I will
[09:05] <pitti> mdke: why, does gamin break again?
[09:05] <mdke> pitti, no j/k
[09:05] <pitti> mdke: or do you rather want to hug fabbione? :-)
[09:05] <mdke> goddammit
[09:11] <zyga> hmm I cannot find anything that re-enables the spatial mode 
[09:11] <seb128> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8516
[09:11] <seb128> read the comments
[09:11] <seb128> or read the package changelog
[09:11] <zyga> I've found 8528 and 8530 
[09:11] <zyga> seb128: thanks alot
[09:12] <seb128> np
[09:12] <mdke> zyga, /apps/nautilus/preferences/no_ubuntu_spatial
[09:13] <zyga> mdke: I've found that key but I had no idea that it actually fixes this
[09:14] <zyga> schema is badly needed
[09:14] <zyga> also IMHO it's kind of late to change the way nautilus works again but that's just personal opinion (and not addressed to you of course)
[09:14] <seb128> zyga: you can comment on the bug if you want
[09:15] <zyga> seb128: still reading
[09:23] <zyga> seb128: I cannot add anything usefull at this point
[09:23] <zyga> I agree that introducing a change in the default mode now is a mistake
[09:23] <zyga> other than that I'm helpless
[09:25] <seb128> zyga: k
[09:25] <zyga> is the key name stable in any way?
[09:25] <seb128> no reason to change it 
[09:48] <haggai> pitti: I've been fixing the cdrdao sources up.  I also noticed it build-depends on pccts (currently in universe), but I can remove that by building against the internal pccts.  Which is easier for you?  Build with internal version or move pccts to main too?
[09:48] <pitti> haggai: if the internal version works, then using this one is easier
[09:48] <haggai> pitti: righty.  I already tested it and it does work
[09:49] <pitti> cool
[09:49] <pitti> haggai: no other external dependencies?
[09:49] <pitti> ... which aren't in main
[09:49] <haggai> pitti: no, there are only 2 and both are in main
[09:53] <seb128> pitti: desktop icons issue fixed by gamin fix ?
[09:53] <pitti> seb128: sounds like "yes", which bug?
[09:53] <seb128> just reading the bug you have closed
[09:53] <seb128> that would rock :)
[09:53] <pitti> seb128: #7616?
[09:53] <seb128> is there some other issues ?
[09:54] <seb128> right, this one
[09:54] <pitti> seb128: well, one reporter said yes, let's hope that the others do, too :-)
[09:54] <seb128> :)
[09:54] <pitti> seb128: I merged all similar bugs, but I still have a host of other hotplug bugs
[09:54] <seb128> oh right
[10:00] <froud> ogra: I was expecting a mail :-(
[10:08] <mvo> ping seb128 
[10:09] <dholbach> hey mvo
[10:09] <mvo> hey dholbach 
[10:09] <seb128> mvo: pong
[10:10] <mvo> seb128: could you please re-send me the typo fix for update-manager? it looks like the attachment from you last mail was missing :)
[10:11] <seb128> hum right
[10:11] <seb128> not the last, look on your box you have a new one :p
[10:11] <seb128> (I've just a new one)
[10:17] <mvo> seb128: thanks, commit (with "thanks to Sebasti*e*n Bacher" this time :p)
[10:17] <seb128> :)
[10:17] <seb128> thank you
[10:40] <mvo> pitti: u-m and synaptic with Xhosa uploaded
[10:40] <pitti> mvo: thanks
[10:41] <trulux> any Perl master here?
[10:42] <mdke> heh
[10:42] <mdke> perl master :)
[10:43] <trulux> mdke: Jedi?
[10:43] <trulux> :)
[10:43] <mdke> perl master is one rank up
[10:43] <mdke> i guess
[10:44] <trulux> right, hehe
[10:44] <trulux> I'm hacking tinderbox to add source code auditing capabilities
[10:51] <lamont_r> trulux: you're looking for a perl master in a python-biased distro devel channel??? :-)
[10:51] <mdke> he shows signs of turning to the dark side
[10:52] <trulux> lamont-away: lol, tinderbox is written in Perl, don't give me ideas or this summer I will need *too many* steroids ;P
[10:52] <lamont_r> heh
[10:52] <trulux> mdke: a powerful ally, another dark jedi, join us or die!
[11:07] <Kamion> trulux: perl> what do you need?
[11:08] <trulux> Kamion: I'm messing with mozilla's tinderbox to include source code auditing capabilities, and I need to know how to do some stuff regarding files, outputting...
[11:08] <trulux> Kamion: many time since I don't write anything with Perl, and I when I was doing, it wasn't so much
[11:09] <Kamion> open FILE, '>', $filename or die "open $filename: $!";
[11:09] <Kamion> print FILE $stuff;
[11:09] <trulux> Kamion: I'm just doing it inspired on http://dev.gentoo.org/~solar/portage_misc/bashrc, just finished adding the hacks to make the frontend able to handle the "auditing" flags, etc
[11:10] <Kamion> (or 'print FILE $stuff or die "print $filename: $!";' if you're being pedantically careful)
[11:10] <trulux> Kamion: function package-pre-compile() {
[11:10] <Kamion> close FILE or die "close $filename: $!";
[11:10] <trulux> yes, I must be
[11:10] <trulux> tinderbox is CGI, and Perl can be an asspain if talking on cgi security
[11:10] <Kamion> I sincerely hope you're using taint mode already
[11:11] <trulux> Kaloz: right
[11:11] <trulux> s_files="`find ${S} -name '*.c' -o -name '*.cpp'`"
[11:11] <Kamion> careful and competent programming makes Perl no less of an "asspain" than any other language, and often much less
[11:11] <trulux> right
[11:13] <trulux> the only visible work I did with perl was (http://sourceforge.net/tracker/download.php?group_id=54911&atid=475277&file_id=102127&aid=1031214
[11:13] <trulux> :)
[11:13] <mdz> lamont_r: ping
[11:19] <dholbach> pitti: had some time for THE crack already? :-)
[11:19] <pitti> dholbach: sorry, I didn't manage today
[11:19] <dholbach> pitti: don't worry, just wanted to ask
[11:19] <pitti> dholbach: tomorrow, I promise :-)
[11:20] <dholbach> pitti: we don't need to have a thorough security analysis, i guess you're good/bad feeling suffices
[11:20] <dholbach> :-)
[11:22] <lamont_r> mdz: reading your mail now
[11:23] <blahrus> anyone here running hoary rc?
[11:24] <lamont_r> mdz: so we need to strip them from the packages in the archive, or need to do a rebuild of the packages and then extract them?
[11:24] <mdz> lamont_r: the former
[11:24] <lamont_r> any or all architectures?
[11:24] <lamont_r> s/any/one/
[11:24] <mdz> need exactly one extraction per binary package
[11:25] <mdz> I expect they're all arch: any, but I haven't checked
[11:25] <lamont_r> across all of main?
[11:25] <mdz> yes.  we'll likely strip some of them away, but start with all of main
[11:25] <pitti> blahrus: I guess almost all folks here run ubuntu head
[11:25] <lamont_r> or I could just do all 4 architectures, and let them overwrite each other...
[11:25] <blahrus> pitti: head?
[11:26] <pitti> blahrus: crack of the day, i. e. today's archive version
[11:26] <lamont_r> blahrus: what evers currently in the archive
[11:26] <lamont_r> s/ evers/ever's/
[11:26] <mdz> lamont_r: i fyou can get it done via bulid-time extraction within the time allotted (about a day), that's fine too
[11:26] <mdz> but that doesn't seem very feasible
[11:26] <blahrus> got it, well I am just having an issue with sound, talked to Mithrandir yesterday a bit, and we couldn't fing the bug, its worked in all other versions
[11:26] <lamont_r> yeah, probably not entirely feasable.
[11:27] <lamont_r> and extracting from main at that point
[11:31] <seb128> mvo: around ?
[11:31] <mvo> seb128: yes
[11:32] <seb128> I thought you uploaded a gksu patched for the random messages happening sometime
[11:32] <seb128> you didn't ?
[11:32] <seb128> I don't find it 
[11:32] <mvo> seb128: it turned out that it was trickier than I excpected and mdz was not happy with the patch :/
[11:32] <seb128> that's for https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8650
[11:32] <seb128> is that a dup for some other open bug ?
[11:32] <mvo> seb128: patch is at http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/review/libgksu/libgksu1.2_1.2.5a-1ubuntu2.debdiff
[11:33] <mdz> seb128: he made a patch to simply disable the message in all cases
[11:33] <mdz> but there are legitimate cases where the message is appropriate
[11:33] <seb128> hum, k
[11:33] <mdz> the message is a symptom of a real problem
[11:34] <seb128> right, but it's not really user friendly :/
[11:34] <mdz> we should change the message sometime
[11:34] <seb128> yep
[11:34] <mdz> I thought there was already a bug open about that
[11:34] <mdz> too late to translate it now, though
[11:35] <seb128> there is #7385 
[11:35] <seb128> bah, that's for breezy
[11:35] <seb128> mdz: what's your point of view for nautilus changes ?
[11:36] <mdz> seb128: related to the sabdfl changes, or otherwise?
[11:36] <seb128> the spatial changes required by sabdfl right
[11:37] <seb128> are we just going to ignore the userbase ?
[11:37] <mdz> I think that this was not the right time to make the change
[11:39] <crimsun> (I agree with mdz, fwiw.  At the start of breezy, sure, but it's really late in the game for Hoary.)
[11:39] <seb128> I agree too ...
[11:41] <seb128> the changes have corner cases, we should have a general reflexion about that (with upstream if possible)
[11:42] <kent> Actuallly personally  I have gotten used to the new way of Nautilus that changed in Hoary some day ago. But changing it with upstream would be great (Not that you should listen to me, but as a feature.. its not so bad actually. It seemed horrible first, but not any more.. :)  
[11:43] <seb128> upstream seems to not be opposed to an option for such mode
[11:44] <seb128> but with some reflexion on the corner cases, etc before
[11:44] <Burgundavia> there is also no gui way to turning it off
[11:46] <crimsun> personally, I've always closed the windows, but that's my preference, and I don't expect to enforce that on others.  My only beef is that it's quite late in Hoary's schedule.
[11:47] <pitti> night everybody
[11:47] <seb128> 'night pitti 
[11:47] <mvo> ping daniels 
[11:51] <dholbach> seb128: just want to confirm: gtk2-engines-industrial and gtk2-engines-mist are both provided by two source packages, removing them from (the source packages) gtk-industrial-engine and gtk-mist-engine should be ok, right?
[11:51] <seb128> I've no idea of what you are speaking about
[11:52] <seb128> oh
[11:52] <seb128> no, let them
[11:52] <seb128> need to figure that with jdub
[11:53] <seb128> according to the debian maintainer the upstream work place is gtk-engines-industrial not gtk2-engines
[11:53] <seb128> so we probably want to keep this one
[11:54] <seb128> bah, workaround that for now if you want
[11:54] <seb128> but we want to do the same as debian on this plan
[11:54] <dholbach> so fixing gtk2-engines would be more appropriate?
[11:54] <dholbach> stripping both binary packages?
[11:55] <dholbach> ah ok... gtk2-engines is in main
[11:55] <seb128> we are not going to change gtk2-engines binary packages now for hoary if that's the question
[11:56] <seb128> do whatever you want to fix the engines for universe if you want
[11:56] <seb128> I'll clear that with jdub/the debian maintainer but that's not for hoary
[11:56] <dholbach> ok
[11:56] <seb128> ie: I may undo your changes
[11:56] <mdz> Kamion: here?
[11:56] <seb128> but that's not an issue
[11:57] <mxpxpod> jbailey: ping
[11:57] <dholbach> seb128: no... he just pointed me to it
[11:57] <dholbach> anyway... will think about it tomorrow
[11:57] <dholbach> i'm too tired atm
[11:57] <dholbach> good night everyone
[11:58] <mdke> night
[11:58] <Kamion> mdz: for about thirty seconds :)
[11:58] <jbailey> mxpxpod: here
[11:58] <mdz> Kamion: I need about 30 seconds worth of HoaryGoals status updates ;-)
[11:58] <mxpxpod> jbailey: have you heard any more about libmpeg2 and the altivec stuff?
[11:59] <mdz> Kamion: in particular kickstart and install-without-restricted
[11:59] <mdz> Kamion: I'm already editing the page, so just a quick note via IRC is fine
[12:01] <Kamion> mdz: kickstart is as far as I'm concerned done for hoary
[12:01] <mdz> doko, jbailey: ping, re: breezy toolchain plans
[12:02] <Kamion> mdz: the base-installer thing for install-without-restricted is still outstanding and is fiddly; I'm inclined to defer it with a note that you can make it work in expert mode, or in a derived distribution by changing base-installer
[12:03] <mdz> Kamion: thanks
[12:03] <jbailey> mxpxpod: Nope, I haven't been hacking on it.  It works better than it did in Warty, and we'll pretty much have to be happy with that for now.
[12:03] <mxpxpod> jbailey: hrmm... it's still quite jumpy
[12:04] <jbailey> mdz: doko and I haven't sync'd on it.  Can do that tomorrow morning.
[12:04] <jbailey> mdz: I have things that I want to do, but not a comprehensive plan in the wiki yet.
[12:04] <jbailey> mxpxpod: Right it sucks, but it doesn't crash.
[12:04] <mdz> jbailey: the immediate need is to determine whether we'll be deploying toolchain changes before or after UDU
[12:04] <mdz> jbailey: and, consequently, whether there's actually anything to talk about in this area at UDU