[02:58] <dannemare> Can anybody tell me why the wiki was rolled back to April 1st, and whether stuff added after April 1st to today can be restored (I assume there's a nightly backup or something)?
[03:25] <jsgotangco> hmmm the xml is messed up
[03:26] <Liz> mornin jsgotangco 
[03:26] <Liz> mornin all
[03:37] <jsgotangco> hi Liz!
[03:37] <jsgotangco> Liz: u familiar with po files?
[03:38] <Liz> no, no idea at all about po files
[03:38] <jsgotangco> ok i was checking the xml from svn and one of them is pretty messed up and had to fix it
[03:40] <Liz> ill have to check that out in a bit
[03:40] <Liz> sigh..it seems i dont have time for a lot of things at late
[03:40] <Liz> brb
[03:40] <jsgotangco> *grin* okie dokie
[08:21] <froud> African Greetings
[08:21] <Burgundavia> salut
[08:21] <froud> Burgundavia: morn
[08:22] <Burgundavia> I have been doing a lot of helping on #ubuntu
[08:22] <froud> So I see
[08:22] <Burgundavia> realized where our docs need to be taken up to snuff
[08:22] <froud> great
[08:22] <froud> sure
[08:22] <froud> how's your shell scripting
[08:22] <Burgundavia> not great I must say
[08:22] <froud> I have sent a mail to the list
[08:22] <froud> added two scripts to svn
[08:23] <froud> make-pot and make-po
[08:23] <Burgundavia> ok
[08:23] <froud> make pot works my side
[08:23] <froud> make po fails
[08:23] <froud> I cant find out why
[08:23] <froud> can you test make-pot
[08:23] <Burgundavia> yep
[08:23] <froud> can you debug make-po
[08:23] <Burgundavia> np
[08:23] <Burgundavia> I can try
[08:23] <jsgotangco> froud: the patch is for about-ubuntu-tl.xml
[08:23] <jsgotangco> not it
[08:24] <froud> jsgotangco: AH
[08:24] <froud> Thanks
[08:24] <jsgotangco> my working copy is now valid and well-formed
[08:25] <Burgundavia> http://images.linspire.com/quickstartfive-0/QuickStart5.0-online5.pdf
[08:25] <Burgundavia> take a check at that
[08:25] <Burgundavia> very markety-driven, but some nice stuff
[08:26] <jsgotangco> ohhh
[08:26] <froud> Burgundavia: yes, we need this in our USer Guide
[08:26] <jsgotangco> ya linspire has some pretty good marketing indeed
[08:27] <froud> jsgotangco: when you make patches try keep the same filename only add a .diff 
[08:27] <jsgotangco> ahh
[08:27] <froud> it was my fault for not checking
[08:27] <froud> but I just woke up
[08:27] <jsgotangco> hehe thats what i guessed *grin*
[08:28] <Burgundavia> ok, so I don't need to do anything?
[08:29] <froud> Burgundavia: no the scripts are still need testing and debug
[08:29] <Burgundavia> ok
[08:29] <Burgundavia> will do
[08:29] <froud> Burgundavia: svn up and look at them in trunk
[08:29] <Burgundavia> I will
[08:29] <froud> Thanks
[08:33] <jsgotangco> oh nice scripts
[08:34] <froud> jsgotangco: glad you like them
[08:34] <froud> jsgotangco: if you are good with shell you can test make-pot
[08:34] <jsgotangco> yes i tried them out just now
[08:34] <froud> jsgotangco: I have problems with make-po
[08:35] <froud> well guys coffee is finsihed and the day starts. Must go
[08:35] <froud> c ya later
[08:35] <jsgotangco> cya
[09:02] <jsgotangco> urrrkk my OOo2 fonts are screwed
[09:02] <Burgundavia> I installed mscore fonts. I am regretting it
[09:02] <Burgundavia> it borked my system fonts
[09:02] <jsgotangco> hmm
[09:23] <enrico> hello!
[09:23] <Burgundavia> salut
[09:23] <enrico> I'm online again for a bit.  Any urgent things for Hoary release?
[09:24] <Burgundavia> check out froud make-po and make-pot scripts
[09:25] <Kinnison> Morning
[09:26] <Burgundavia> salut Kinnison, long time no talk
[09:26] <Kinnison> Been busy
[09:27] <Burgundavia> cool
[09:27] <Burgundavia> spent 12 hours building a new machine for my brother and setting up XP on it
[09:27] <Burgundavia> I have almost converted him
[09:28] <Kinnison> Heh
[09:28] <Burgundavia> 2 hours looking for a license key
[09:28] <Burgundavia> 2 hours installing, removing and reinstalling SP2
[09:29] <Burgundavia> and when I left we hadn't set up most of his apps
[09:29] <enrico> Burgundavia: anything urgent?
[09:29] <jsgotangco> hi
[09:29] <Burgundavia> enrico: froud asked me to check out those 2 shell scripts
[09:29] <Burgundavia> enrico: more translating work
[09:37] <enrico> Do I understand that translation work is not urgent for Hoary, but will go out in language packs later?
[09:37] <Burgundavia> no idea
[09:37] <Burgundavia> not in on that
[09:37] <enrico> AFAIUnderstand, but I can be wrong, the current packages are not too bad (excluding translations) and I wouldn't like to break stuff by uploading radically different (and less tested) things with translation updates if it's not needed, considering that we're 2 days to release and I'm seldom online
[09:38] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:38] <Burgundavia> I haven't done much with the doc team recently
[09:38] <Burgundavia> expect to start next weekend
[09:39] <enrico> ok, thanks
[09:43] <Kinnison> Burgundavia: as soon as hoary's out the door? :-)
[09:43] <Burgundavia> yeppers
[09:45] <Kinnison> sneaky :-)
[09:45] <Burgundavia> sneaky?
[09:45] <Burgundavia> I don't have any experience with po files
[09:45] <Burgundavia> so I think I would get in the way
[09:46] <enrico> Kinnison: are translations supposed to get out in two days or later with language packs?
[09:46] <enrico> Kinnison: and BTW, what's a language pack?
[09:48] <Kinnison> enrico: not a clue (on both counts)
[09:49] <enrico> ok
[09:55] <jsgotangco> i think the translated xml files should be tested thoroughly because i've patched one today which was malformed
[09:55] <jsgotangco> probably a po conversion thing
[12:20] <jsgotangco> bye bye
[12:41] <mdke> hi all
[12:42] <mdke> can anything be done about the wiki?
[12:42] <Kinnison> how do you mean?
[12:42] <mdke> hi Kinnison 
[12:43] <mdke> well that business about it being reverted back to a few days ago
[12:43] <mdke> i would say about 10 pages have been lost
[12:43] <mdke> and 200 changes ;)
[12:43] <Kinnison> Oh right
[12:43] <Kinnison> dunno about that :-)
[12:50] <mdke> enrico: Do I understand that translation work is not urgent for Hoary, but will go out in language packs later?
[12:51] <mdke> there is a difficult question to resolve about whether the translations are to be packaged from our sources or from rosetta
[12:53] <enrico> mdke: I don't have it clear either
[12:53] <enrico> I'll try to package what we have now (wonder how I'll find the time)
[12:53] <enrico> then we'll all see and learn :)
[12:55] <mdke> enrico, ok :)
[12:55] <mdke> enrico, the problem is that we started doing translations and committing them in svn
[12:56] <mdke> and rosetta suddely came up at the end of last week
[12:56] <mdke> with a million crappy bugs
[12:56] <froud> African Greetings
[12:57] <mdke> hi froud
[12:57] <mdke> :))
[12:57] <froud> Hi
[12:57] <froud> enrico: di dyou get my message
[12:57] <enrico> hi !!
[12:57] <enrico> froud: just got it
[12:57] <enrico> and read it
[12:57] <froud> OK
[12:57] <froud> we tagged in tags/
[12:57] <froud> ubuntu-doc0.4
[12:58] <froud> few updates made to the en docs
[12:58] <froud> since tagging
[12:58] <froud> i18n stuff roles in
[12:58] <enrico> froud: someone told me that the .po shouldn't be installed, but the resulting xmls should
[12:58] <froud> true
[12:58] <froud> the po are internal
[12:58] <mdke> yeh
[12:59] <mdke> but i am slightly concerned that if they get translated in rosetta too, they will be packaged there as well, and clash with ours
[12:59] <froud> I am holding on making heavy process env changes
[12:59] <froud> claude is working with us on that
[01:00] <froud> we just use the po files to create xml
[01:00] <froud> as the system now stands it will package in the same way as before
[01:00] <froud> this excludes lang for now
[01:01] <froud> we can opt to make packages for langs
[01:01] <froud>  or not
[01:01] <enrico> I'm trying to finish one work, then I'll get to the ubuntu-docs
[01:01] <froud> sure
[01:01] <froud> I have scripted the pot creating process
[01:01] <froud> see make-pot
[01:02] <froud> I am trying to script the po2xml process
[01:02] <froud> broken script is in svn see make-po
[01:02] <froud> claude and I worked out solution to transform all langs
[01:03] <froud> have not implimented yet
[01:03] <froud> waiting post hoary
[01:03] <froud> needs svn restructure
[01:03] <mdke> someone should have a word with the rosetta people tho and work out the relationship between the two things
[01:03] <mdke> imo
[01:03] <froud> we give them pot 
[01:03] <froud> they give po into rosetta and to us
[01:04] <froud> we transform po to xml
[01:04] <froud> we transform lang-xml to lang-html
[01:04] <froud> the package can either happen here or thier
[01:04] <mdke> but imo it should not happen in both
[01:04] <mdke> also because things get translated twice
[01:05] <froud> if we have pot and po then we can update pot and po so saving translation time
[01:05] <froud> e.g
[01:05] <froud> we edit releasenotes
[01:05] <froud> we msmerge to pot
[01:05] <froud> we merge the changes in pot to the po files
[01:06] <froud> translators get po file 90% translated and work only on the changes
[01:06] <mdke> yeah
[01:06] <mdke> then imo it is wise to remove the (2 copies of) release notes from rosetta
[01:06] <froud> we can seak to daff about automation between us and rosetta
[01:06] <mdke> ok
[01:06] <enrico> sure, that's how it works
[01:07] <mdke> that's all i'm saying
[01:07] <froud> we have the following interactions
[01:07] <mdke> i'm the docs are going to be translated in our tree, they shouldn't go to rosetta too, it is counterproductive
[01:07] <froud> we need to give pot and any changes
[01:07] <mdke> hi dannemare 
[01:07] <froud> we need to give po changes
[01:09] <froud> how do translators make xml and packages
[01:09] <mdke> froud, i don't follow you. You are suggesting getting people to translate doc team docs both in and outside of rosetta?
[01:09] <froud> mdke: no it is collaborative
[01:09] <froud> we send pot
[01:09] <froud> they send po from rosetta
[01:09] <mdke> ok so just inside
[01:09] <mdke> phew
[01:10] <froud> thing is after the first translation
[01:10] <froud> we must care that they dont need to translate over and again
[01:10] <mdke> quite
[01:10] <froud> so me manage merges
[01:10] <froud> and push the diff into rosetta
[01:10] <mdke> well good luck
[01:11] <froud> when they finish the translation of the diff they send us back the po
[01:11] <froud> the po also still resides in rosetta
[01:11] <mdke> ideally i suppose it would be best to have an earlier freeze of documents
[01:11] <froud> but since the primary lang is en it makes sense for us to drive
[01:11] <mdke> so that no further changes are made
[01:12] <froud> yes this is the idea, but coordination is still rough
[01:12] <mdke> yeah
[01:12] <mdke> and it is crazy that there are two copies of releasenotes and aboutubuntu in rosetta
[01:12] <mdke> not sure why that happened
[01:12] <mdke> anyway
[01:13] <froud> I cant control what happens there
[01:13] <mdke> what is the distinction you're making between .pot and .po files?
[01:13] <froud> To me it must be a black box to us
[01:13] <froud> pot is the template
[01:13] <froud> translators make copies of the pot and save as po
[01:13] <froud> each translates to a different lang
[01:13] <mdke> so just for clarity's sake?
[01:14] <mdke> there is nothing actually different about the file format?
[01:14] <froud> no really
[01:14] <mdke> ok
[01:14] <froud> enrico: do we package or do they
[01:14] <mdke> lol
[01:15] <enrico> I guess we do
[01:15] <enrico> .debs always have inside their translations
[01:15] <enrico> then (special for Ubuntu) they'll automatically extract the translated stuff and make "language packs" out of that
[01:15] <froud> enrico: and how do the documents get into the user desktop
[01:15] <enrico> but the translations are in the packages
[01:16] <froud> ok for now I have files together in the same dir
[01:16] <froud> so all aboutubuntu is in aboutubuntu/
[01:16] <froud> ls
[01:16] <froud> about-ubuntu-ca.po   about-ubuntu-fr.xml  about-ubuntu.pot     about-ubuntu-tl.po   about-ubuntu-xh.xml
[01:16] <froud> about-ubuntu-ca.xml  about-ubuntu-it.po   about-ubuntu-pt.po   about-ubuntu-tl.xml  about-ubuntu.xml
[01:16] <froud> about-ubuntu-fr.po   about-ubuntu-it.xml  about-ubuntu-pt.xml  about-ubuntu-xh.po
[01:17] <froud> for the entities to work they must be packaged in the same way we did the en docs
[01:17] <froud> soon we will have global-lang.net for each lang
[01:17] <mdke> german is being done in rosetta
[01:18] <mdke> twice
[01:18] <froud> and things like menus will also be translated
[01:18] <mdke> because of the duplicates
[01:18] <froud> mdke: I cant help them there
[01:18] <froud> mdke: all I can do is manage our domain
[01:18] <mdke> yeah i know
[01:19] <enrico> I'll be active in an hour or so
[01:19] <mdke> we will not get the po files until someone speaks to daff about it tho i think
[01:19] <froud> I tought claude was speaking to them
[01:20] <froud> Somebody at Rosetta needs a wc of our svn
[01:20] <mdke> bah
[01:20] <froud> then they can patch and get our updates to pots and pos
[01:20] <mdke> didn't they speak to us before thinking of inserting our documents into rosetta?
[01:20] <mdke> i'll email
[01:20] <froud> is there an IRC channel
[01:20] <froud> enrico:  is there an IRC channel
[01:21] <enrico> for what?
[01:21] <mdke> #canonical? :p
[01:21] <froud> i18n
[01:21] <enrico> #ubuntu-dev, I'd say
[01:21] <mdke> el
[01:21] <froud> what is daff's nick
[01:23] <enrico> daf
[01:23] <mdke> yeah
[01:23] <froud> no daff there
[01:24] <enrico> "daf"
[01:24] <mdke> * [daf]  (daf@muse.19inch.net): Dafydd
[01:24] <mdke> * [daf]  irc.freenode.net :http://freenode.net/
[01:24] <mdke> * [daf]  is away (teithio)
[01:24] <mdke> * [daf]  is an identified user
[01:24] <mdke> * [daf]  idle 00:37:31, signon: Tue Mar 29 10:23:56
[01:24] <mdke> * [daf]  End of WHOIS list.
[01:24] <mdke> might be him
[01:24] <enrico> That's it
[01:24] <mdke> not on any channel
[01:25] <froud> who else to speak to
[01:25] <mdke> sabfdl
[01:25] <mdke> ?
[01:25] <enrico> no
[01:25] <enrico> seb128 is another one
[01:25] <mdke> he intervenes on the rosetta list from time to time
[01:25] <mdke> heh
[01:25] <mdke> i would just go for daf
[01:26] <mdke> i'm gonna email just in case
[01:28] <seb128> hi
[01:28] <mdke> ciao
[01:28] <froud> seb128: hi
[01:29] <froud> seb128: we need to discuss interaction
[01:29] <froud> between us and rosetta
[01:29] <froud> can you help
[01:29] <seb128> not really
[01:29] <froud> is it only daff who can help
[01:29] <seb128> you probably want to speak with carlos/pitti for that
[01:29] <mdke> have emailed daf
[01:30] <mdke> asked him to get in touch with you, froud
[01:30] <mdke> or enrico 
[01:30] <froud> mdke: thank
[01:30] <froud> seb128: ok thanks
[01:30] <pitti> Hi everybody
[01:30] <froud> hi
[01:30] <seb128> hey pitti :)
[01:30] <mdke> hi pitti 
[01:31] <froud> pitti we need to discuss interaction between docteam and rosetta
[01:31] <froud> can you help
[01:31] <pitti> hmm, I'm not really a Rosetta dude, but what's the particular question?
[01:31] <pitti> I ping carlos
[01:31] <froud> pitti: hang with me while I explain this
[01:32] <mdke> i'm going for a shower
[01:32] <froud> we write docs in en
[01:32] <froud> we make pot files
[01:32] <froud> we send pot to i18n teams
[01:32] <froud> we get back po file
[01:32] <froud> we make xml-lang from po files
[01:32] <pitti> sounds great
[01:32] <froud> xml-en pot po and xml-lang are in svn
[01:33] <froud> when we make changes in en we merge through to pot and po files
[01:33] <froud> and cycle starts again
[01:33] <froud> we need somebody in Rosetta who has wc of our svn
[01:34] <froud> this way they can manage to addition/update of any pot/po files in rosetta
[01:34] <froud>  and patch back to us
[01:34] <pitti> wc = write capability?
[01:34] <froud> how can we get this kind of process
[01:34] <froud> pitti: working copy of svn
[01:34] <pitti> ah
[01:34] <froud> we can give commit account
[01:35] <froud> +
[01:35] <froud> we need to arrange packaging
[01:35] <froud> lang packs
[01:35] <pitti> hmm, so at least Rosetta should automatically import your svn
[01:35] <froud> not all
[01:35] <froud> only changes
[01:36] <froud> and xml is not required in rosetta
[01:36] <pitti> lang packs> you mean, add the per-language docs as dependencies of language-support-LANG?
[01:36] <froud> here is a ls of the aboutubuntu dir in svn
[01:36] <froud> ls
[01:36] <froud> about-ubuntu-ca.po   about-ubuntu-fr.xml  about-ubuntu.pot     about-ubuntu-tl.po   about-ubuntu-xh.xml
[01:36] <froud> about-ubuntu-ca.xml  about-ubuntu-it.po   about-ubuntu-pt.po   about-ubuntu-tl.xml  about-ubuntu.xml
[01:36] <froud> about-ubuntu-fr.po   about-ubuntu-it.xml  about-ubuntu-pt.xml  about-ubuntu-xh.po
[01:37] <froud> Yes I french use needs to see about-ubuntu-fr.xml
[01:37] <froud> s/I/a/
[01:37] <pitti> oh, you mean the xml files are not packaged in a deb right now?
[01:38] <seb128> speaking about than, somebody has planned to fix the package for hoary ? 
[01:38] <froud> s/use/user
[01:38] <froud> seb128: maybe enrico
[01:38] <pitti> froud: right now langpack-o-matic can't put anything else than po files into language packs
[01:38] <seb128> froud: no, not enrico
[01:38] <seb128> I've spoken with him this morning
[01:39] <seb128> he's away until the 8th and we want that before the 6th
[01:39] <enrico> seb128: I can try to do something this a'noon
[01:39] <froud> pitti: any requirements we need to adhere to in order to provide support to this
[01:39] <enrico> although I can't guarantee how it turns out
[01:39] <pitti> froud: the xml files are not shipped at all right now?
[01:39] <seb128> enrico: I'll do it tomorrow if nobody else do it, let me know
[01:39] <froud> You need just HTML
[01:39] <seb128> pitti: no, the package is b0rked atm
[01:40] <seb128> there is some random po in the wrong directory which doesn't work
[01:40] <pitti> seb128: yeah, but in principle there is a package for these?
[01:40] <seb128> ubuntu-doc
[01:40] <froud> ubuntu-doc has all the files
[01:40] <froud> no HTML though
[01:41] <seb128> there is no need of html files, is it ?
[01:41] <seb128> the xml files are enough
[01:41] <froud> if under yelp yes
[01:41] <froud> in not no
[01:41] <seb128> yelp use xml files
[01:41] <froud> About Ubuntu is HTML
[01:41] <froud> Not Under Yelp
[01:42] <seb128> oh, the start-page for firefox you mean
[01:42] <froud> Release NOtes is xml under yelp
[01:42] <froud> Anything GNOME is Yelp
[01:42] <seb128> right
[01:42] <froud> Anything Generic is not
[01:42] <seb128> speaking about "about-ubuntu"
[01:42] <seb128> the main page has no title 
[01:42] <seb128> is that know ?
[01:42] <seb128> ie: the line is empty for the index
[01:43] <froud> Hmm aboutubuntu is loading in yelp
[01:43] <froud> seb128: yes known problem
[01:43] <seb128> k
[01:43] <seb128> yep, about-ubuntu is an xml file for yelp
[01:44] <froud> new version of yelp dont know what to do when image in title
[01:44] <froud> OK, so anyting loading under Yelp needs only XML
[01:44] <froud> but we get away from th epoint
[01:44] <froud> how to get language specific files to show
[01:45] <froud> if I am using Xhosa I want about ubuntu is Xhosa
[01:45] <seb128> /usr/share/gnome/help/about-ubuntu/nn/about-ubuntu.xml
[01:45] <seb128> where nn is the locale to use
[01:45] <seb128> just copy the translation for nn here
[01:45] <froud> this will break our system at present
[01:45] <froud> we currently have no support for the nn
[01:46] <seb128> but that's the way it works
[01:46] <froud> post hoary we will
[01:46] <seb128> we can workaround that for hoary
[01:46] <pitti> uh, that sounds a bit scary, as if we could not properly integrate this by hoary
[01:46] <seb128> ie: change the package to copy them to right place
[01:46] <seb128> pitti: we can just hack debian/rules for hoary
[01:46] <pitti> yeah
[01:46] <froud> seb128: providing that all files remain in the same folder as the en document it will work
[01:46] <froud> ls
[01:46] <froud> about-ubuntu-ca.po   about-ubuntu-fr.xml  about-ubuntu.pot     about-ubuntu-tl.po   about-ubuntu-xh.xml
[01:46] <froud> about-ubuntu-ca.xml  about-ubuntu-it.po   about-ubuntu-pt.po   about-ubuntu-tl.xml  about-ubuntu.xml
[01:46] <froud> about-ubuntu-fr.po   about-ubuntu-it.xml  about-ubuntu-pt.xml  about-ubuntu-xh.po
[01:47] <froud> seb128: I must go fetch my son from school
[01:47] <froud> brb
[01:47] <seb128> later
[01:47] <pitti> so ubuntu-doc must just be tweaked to put the files into the right place?
[01:47] <seb128> that's my view of the issue 
[01:47] <froud> pitti: no ubuntu-doc puts them in the righ place
[01:47] <seb128> yelp will look to /usr/share/gnome/help/about-ubuntu/nn/about-ubuntu.xml afaik
[01:48] <froud> but it is not according to the convention of nn
[01:48] <pitti> hmm, I can't find ubuntu-doc in the archive
[01:48] <seb128> plural
[01:48] <pitti> ah, sorry
[01:48] <pitti> froud: AFAICS there are no per-language debs
[01:49] <seb128> no, there is not
[01:49] <pitti> froud: so there's no point in integrating this with langpacks
[01:50] <mdke> but it should be noted that there is a german translation going on in rosetta. If you decide to package it with ubuntu-docs, we need to get hold of that
[01:51] <seb128> pitti: I don't know, but we could ship /usr/share/gnome/help/about-ubuntu/nn/about-ubuntu.xml with language-pack-nn
[01:51] <pitti> seb128: yeah, but this requires major design changes in langpack-o-matic :-/
[01:51] <seb128> k
[01:51] <pitti> sb should have told me earlier
[01:51] <seb128> so let's just hack ubuntu-docs for hoary
[01:51] <pitti> seb128, froud: can we just ship all translations in one deb for hoary?
[01:51] <pitti> how big are they?
[01:52] <seb128> 7,7K 2005-03-26 22:45 about-ubuntu.xml
[01:52] <seb128> 178K 2005-03-25 06:06 quickguide.xml
[01:52] <seb128> 29K 2005-03-19 00:02 release-notes.xml
[01:53] <seb128> Package: ubuntu-docs
[01:53] <seb128> Size: 278202
[01:53] <seb128> atm
[01:53] <mdke> plus the languages
[01:53] <pitti> so, 270 KB times #translations?
[01:53] <seb128> yeah
[01:53] <seb128> right
[01:54] <pitti> that doesn't sound too bad
[01:54] <pitti> for hoary
[01:54] <mdke> ok
[01:54] <mdke> how can we get hold of the german translation in rosetta and make an xml?
[01:54] <pitti> mdke: you can download the po files
[01:54] <mdke> right
[01:55] <pitti> mdke: please talk with carlos, he can make provisions that it can be done automatically
[01:55] <mdke> i've emailed daf and i can talk to the german users
[01:55] <mdke> is carlos here?
[01:55] <pitti> mdke: I pinged him and invited him
[01:55] <mdke> right
[01:55] <pitti> no response so far, he's away ATM
[01:55] <mdke> k
[01:55] <mdke> when do you need em for packaging?
[01:56] <seb128> today
[01:56] <mdke> shit
[01:56] <mdke> ok i'll chase up an italian one too
[01:56] <seb128> $ ls aboutubuntu/*.xml
[01:56] <seb128> aboutubuntu/about-ubuntu-ca.xml  aboutubuntu/about-ubuntu-tl.xml
[01:56] <seb128> aboutubuntu/about-ubuntu-fr.xml  aboutubuntu/about-ubuntu-xh.xml
[01:56] <seb128> aboutubuntu/about-ubuntu-it.xml  aboutubuntu/about-ubuntu.xml
[01:56] <seb128> aboutubuntu/about-ubuntu-pt.xml
[01:56] <seb128> 
[01:56] <seb128> the SVN has that atm
[01:56] <mdke> yeah not releasenotes tho
[01:57] <seb128> the about-ubuntu is the visible part
[01:57] <seb128> ie: the panel entry "About Ubuntu" 
[01:58] <mdke> so will you be packaging releasenotes with it or just aboutubuntu?
[01:59] <mdke> seb128, ^
[02:01] <froud> seb128: do we need omf files for the language specific docs
[02:01] <seb128> I don't know
[02:01] <seb128> I just know than copying the xml translation to /usr/share/gnome/help/about-ubuntu/nn/about-ubuntu.xml works
[02:02] <froud> as I understand to get the en doc to show in yelp we must register it with scrollkeeper
[02:02] <froud> not sure if we need the same for nn
[02:03] <froud> Ok have a meeting. Somebody post to the list what is being done and who is doing what, please :-)
[02:03] <froud> we have no reports lately
[02:05] <seb128> you can try to copy the xml file to nn/about-ubuntu.xml
[02:06] <mdke> i am emailing carlos to ask about the german docs, so am i just asking for about-ubuntu or both?
[02:06] <seb128> whatever you want
[02:06] <mdke> :(
[02:06] <seb128> ?
[02:07] <mdke> if you tell me what you are packaging i will ask for them
[02:08] <seb128> we are packaging what is available when we do the package
[02:08] <mdke> ok
[02:08] <seb128> but we don't force you to do anything
[02:08] <seb128> you do whatever you want
[02:08] <mdke> whoa
[02:08] <mdke> i'm just trying to help
[02:08] <seb128> so what's the problem ?
[02:08] <mdke> i wasn't sure what you were gonna package
[02:08] <seb128> all the files are to translate
[02:09] <seb128> we use what is translated
[02:09] <mdke> ok ty
[02:10] <seb128> np
[02:10] <pitti> carlos is back
[02:10] <pitti> darn, now froud is away *sigh*
[02:11] <carlos> hi
[02:11] <pitti> Hi carlos
[02:11] <seb128> ah ah, carlos doing translation on a non-working day
[02:11] <seb128> I knew it :p
[02:11] <carlos> pitti: tell me
[02:11] <seb128> hey carlos :)
[02:11] <pitti> fround has some quesitons wrt rosetta integration of ubuntu-docs
[02:11] <pitti> carlos: unfortunately fround is away now
[02:11] <pitti> carlos: oh, you have holiday today? sorry for disturbing
[02:11] <carlos> seb128: well, I'm not working, just come back from the airport, and saw the martin's ping :-P
[02:12] <seb128> what do you do to the airport ?
[02:12] <mdke> hi carlos 
[02:12] <carlos> pitti: don't worry
[02:12] <carlos> I'm taking an eye in Rosetta today
[02:12] <carlos> because Daf is traveling
[02:12] <carlos> seb128: daf left Valencia
[02:12] <carlos> mdke: hi
[02:12] <mdke> carlos, i just sent you an email :)
[02:12] <seb128> carlos: oh, k
[02:13] <carlos> mdke: ok
[02:14] <mdke> the discussion concerns packaging of the docteam documents and translations
[02:14] <mdke> pitti and seb128 have offered to package them separately for hoary
[02:14] <pitti> erm, separately for breezy, that is
[02:14] <mdke> ??
[02:14] <mdke> mdke when do you need em for packaging?
[02:14] <mdke> seb128 today
[02:14] <carlos> package what separately?
[02:15] <carlos> every translation in a different package?
[02:15] <mdke> i don't know
[02:15] <pitti> yeah
[02:15] <pitti> carlos: at least that was what I understood
[02:15] <pitti> carlos: then we can integrate that into language-support-*
[02:16] <carlos> If you are going to use .po files as the way to translate documentation, I think you should create a package with the english sources that creates the .pot file with a rule and another rule to get the .po file and create the translated docbook file
[02:16] <mdke> i'm gonna leave you guys to it
[02:16] <mdke> seems like i haven't understood what's going on
[02:17] <mdke> as long as you know some translations are in rosetta, some are in docteam svn
[02:18] <carlos> mdke: the point is that or you use Rosetta or you use svn
[02:18] <carlos> if you are going to use .po files
[02:18] <carlos> Rosetta should be mandatory
[02:18] <carlos> you don't need to translate with rosetta if you don't want
[02:18] <carlos> but you should get and submit the translations with rosetta
[02:18] <mdke> brb
[02:18] <carlos> if you choose a mis model, you will get out of sync easily
[02:18] <mdke> phone
[02:19] <carlos> as this is not urgent, could we talk about it tomorrow?
[02:20] <carlos> I'm on holidays today
[02:21] <carlos> and need to recharge my batteries 
[02:25] <mdke> carlos, whatever you prefer. But seb128 said he wanted the documents today
[02:25] <mdke> and the mixed system was not intentional
[02:26] <mdke> it occured because we were submitting translations to svn, and then they suddenly appeared in rosetta too
[02:26] <mdke> it is fine to work out a system using only rosetta for breezy, but I think we should try and get as many translations into hoary as possible
[02:26] <mdke> ok i'm off too now
[02:31] <froud> carlos: 
[02:31] <froud> carlos: when you get back ping me I will explain
[02:49] <pitti> froud: seems you two have a talent for missing each other...
[02:50] <froud> pitti: he's at lunch and still tuned so there is hope yet :-)
[03:04] <enrico> sooo
[03:05] <enrico> what is that generates the translated xml files?
[03:05] <mdke> froud does it with po2xml i think
[03:05] <mdke> but i think he is making a script
[03:05] <froud> enrico: po2xml but my script make-po does not work :-(
[03:06] <froud> enrico: but the make-pot works well
[03:06] <enrico> let's debug that
[03:06] <froud> enrico: perhaps you can look at it
[03:06] <froud> you have more skill with shell script than I
[03:06] <froud> the general idea of the process is encapuslated by the code
[03:06] <froud> but consider this
[03:06] <enrico> bash arrays... cool!
[03:06] <enrico> never used that
[03:07] <froud> we get po
[03:07] <froud> you dont have too use the array if you dont want
[03:07] <froud> you can just use a pain for loop if you wish
[03:08] <froud> look at make-pot
[03:08] <froud> then model make-po on it
[03:08] <enrico> what package is po2xml in?
[03:08] <froud> KDESDK
[03:08] <enrico> ok :)
[03:09] <froud> which po2xml
[03:09] <froud> /opt/kde3/bin/po2xml
[03:09] <enrico> poxml
[03:09] <enrico> apt-get install poxml
[03:09] <enrico> it's in there
[03:09] <froud> no that is gnome isnt it
[03:10] <froud> we use xml2pot and po2xml from kdesdk
[03:10] <froud> the gnome one is problematic
[03:10] <froud> a few of us tried it and it gave problems
[03:10] <enrico> oh :(
[03:10] <froud> also they are not compaible :-(
[03:11] <froud> enrico: the idea is that the creating and maintenance of POT and PO should be automatic
[03:11] <froud> as simple as saying make pot or make po
[03:11] <enrico> sure
[03:11] <froud> the scripts should look in any folder defined in modules=" "
[03:11] <enrico> apt-cache show poxml
[03:12] <mdke> froud, have got de docs
[03:12] <enrico> "This package is part of the KDE Software Development Kit."
[03:12] <mdke> :)
[03:12] <enrico> good, it's the right one
[03:12] <froud> enrico: yes
[03:12] <froud> mdke: great 
[03:13] <froud> for testing I have limited the modules on which the scripts run
[03:13] <froud> once we are happy we can traverse the entire structure
[03:13] <froud> I am writing another script to do the menus
[03:14] <froud> seems that parser.cpp in xml2pot does not touch <menuchoice> elements
[03:14] <froud> this makes sense in context of large docs
[03:14] <froud> but is not good in our context
[03:14] <froud> as our menus are expanded from entities
[03:15] <froud> for processing we will also add a new entity to our DocType Decl
[03:15] <froud> we will have a global.ent and a global-nn.ent
[03:15] <froud> where nn = lang code
[03:16] <froud> stuff like conventions, legal notice and copyright
[03:16] <froud> translated once
[03:16] <froud> and the lang docs will pickup the correct version of these files from the global-nn.ent
[03:17] <mdke> froud, sent
[03:17] <froud> hope you understand all this
[03:17] <froud> mdke: thanks
[03:18] <froud> mdke: you stress too much dude ;-)
[03:18] <mdke> its because I care
[03:18] <froud> trust the community, the power is there
[03:18] <mdke> people have put effort into the translations
[03:18] <froud> the force is tring with Ubuntu
[03:18] <mdke> heh
[03:18] <froud> strong
[03:19] <mdke> ok see you later
[03:19] <froud> ok
[03:19] <enrico> froud: how come you want to diff and patch the translated xml file instead of just overwriting it?
[03:19] <mdke> oh btw froud the german file may need testing as it was done with whatever old version of the .pot was uploaded to rosetta
[03:20] <froud> script is run on working copy
[03:20] <mdke> (enrico, can you moderate my mail to the list with the attachments pls)
[03:20] <enrico> mdke: Mary is doing moderation atm
[03:20] <mdke> damn
[03:20] <enrico> mdke: although I can do it
[03:20] <enrico> as well
[03:20] <mdke> will send them individually if you like
[03:20] <enrico> I just need to dig for the passwords
[03:21] <froud> we only want to commit diff
[03:21] <enrico> wait
[03:21] <enrico> commit diff?
[03:21] <enrico> why commit at all?
[03:21] <mdke> enrico, don't worry will send them separately
[03:21] <froud> must commit at some point. Not the diff file
[03:21] <enrico> I mean, one commits the original, the translated po-s and the rest is generated by the makefile
[03:22] <enrico> mdke: I'm moderating it in
[03:22] <froud> yes, but no saying how the structure of the new xml file is
[03:22] <enrico> so tell me if you intend to send them separated
[03:22] <froud> to patch in working copy first is safer, no?
[03:22] <mdke> enrico, too late i cancelled it
[03:22] <enrico> what's the problem with the xml file's structure?
[03:22] <enrico> mdke: ok
[03:23] <froud> the .new xml is created from th epo2xml right
[03:23] <froud> you have no way to see if it was good
[03:24] <froud> if you think it not needed, just cp the file
[03:24] <froud> or output directly over the existing file
[03:24] <froud> then ther eis no need for .new
[03:24] <froud> and diff process
[03:25] <enrico> but you do a patch with the untranslated one
[03:25] <froud> the .new file should be a translated file
[03:26] <froud> basically you want po2xml en-doc.xml nn-doc.po > nn-doc.xml
[03:27] <froud> got to fetch my daughters brb.
[03:27] <enrico> froud: committed fixed script
[03:27] <froud-away> does it work for you
[03:27] <froud-away> I will test it when I get back
[03:28] <enrico> works for me
[03:28] <enrico> ok, see you later
[03:32] <claude> seb128: the quickguide in French is quite ready
[03:32] <seb128> can you get it for the SVN ?
[03:32] <claude> maybe tonight ??
[03:32] <seb128> when you feel that's ready
[03:32] <seb128> I'm quite busy, I've not read all the mails about it
[03:33] <claude> cmmh, can you wait until tonight before packaging ? 
[03:33] <claude> it would be great that quickguide-fr being into Hoary at release time
[03:33] <seb128> I'll package it tomorrow if enrico has not do that before
[03:34] <claude> k
[03:34] <enrico> seb128: I'm trying to figure out how it works
[03:34] <enrico> we don't have translated OMF files, either :(
[03:34] <seb128> enrico: are OMF useful ?
[03:34] <enrico> How do we get those?
[03:34] <seb128> I don't have know what does the OMF files do
[03:34] <enrico> seb128: if you want to find the thing in yelp, yes
[03:34] <seb128> s/have/even/
[03:34] <seb128> oh
[03:35] <seb128> right
[03:35] <enrico> they're metadata used to register the documentation in scrollkeeper
[03:35] <seb128> copying the xml to the right place works to open from the menu though
[03:35] <seb128> no need of the OMF files
[03:35] <enrico> ok, good
[03:35] <enrico> very good
[03:35] <enrico> so, what's the right place?
[03:35] <seb128> and I guess that people will use the "About Ubuntu" from the menu
[03:36] <seb128> /usr/share/gnome/help/about-ubuntu/nn/about-ubuntu.xml
[03:36] <seb128> for the "nn" translation 
[03:36] <seb128> and some for the other documents
[03:36] <seb128> C/file.xml for english, nn/file.xml for the translations
[03:37] <claude> the problem may be common files
[03:38] <seb128> like ?
[03:38] <claude> do they need to be duplicated for each translation ?
[03:38] <claude> like images (not translated for now
[03:38] <seb128> yep
[03:43] <enrico> claude: yes, I'm doing quite a symlink farm
[03:43] <claude> ok, good
[03:43] <claude> some files will need symlinks other won't...
[03:44] <claude> will probably chnage over time
[03:44] <claude> for now, files in common are not translated
[03:44] <claude> but they should be
[03:45] <claude> if i understand, translated files from ubuntu-docs won't be in lang-packs, right ?
[03:46] <enrico> claude: no idea
[03:46] <froud> hi
[03:46] <enrico> froud: hi
[03:46] <enrico> froud: check the new script
[03:47] <froud> I will 
[03:47] <enrico> note that the new Tagalog translations create a broken xml file
[03:47] <enrico> .tl
[03:47] <claude> should check the po file with msgfmt
[03:47] <froud> enrico: huh
[03:47] <claude> msgfmt -vc file.po
[03:47] <froud> yes
[03:47] <froud> yes
[03:47] <froud> enrico: it was not in my script
[03:48] <enrico> what does that do?
[03:48] <froud> checks the integrity of the po
[03:48] <claude> but that's not alwas sufficient
[03:48] <froud> sometimes they get wacked
[03:49] <claude> i had some problems with quickguide-fr that i needed to fix by hand
[03:49] <claude> msgfmt will not check that xml tags inside msgstrings are correct
[03:50] <froud> enrico: do we still need the PATH=${PATH}:/opt/kde3/bin/
[03:50] <enrico> froud: no, it's not needed when the poxml file is installed
[03:52] <enrico> seb128: please checkout and build the package
[03:52] <froud> enrico: but now it will update all nn files even if they did not need updating
[03:53] <seb128> enrico: k
[03:53] <froud> enrico: hence we have commits that are not needed
[03:53] <froud> enrico: did somebody to the de translation yet
[03:54] <froud> I sill dont have it in my mail
[03:54] <froud> seb128: should wait until we have the de
[03:54] <enrico> froud: not really, because if the contents of a file didn't change, then svn doesn't see the file as modified
[03:55] <enrico> seb128: try installing the package.  I have the document in what seems to be the right place, but my italian yelp shows the document in english
[03:56] <froud> svn status still shows M
[03:56] <seb128> how do you open it ?
[03:56] <froud> enrico: better not to copy over
[03:56] <enrico> seb128: yelp, then I follow the menus
[03:56] <froud> better to copy over only if changes
[03:56] <enrico> seb128: how do you open it?
[03:57] <seb128> panel, about ubuntu
[03:57] <enrico> froud: here it shows M only for the ones that changed (that is, only Tagalog)
[03:57] <enrico> seb128: I don't run Hoary: what does that link?
[03:57] <froud> opens yelp about-ubuntu.xml
[03:57] <seb128> yelp ghelp:about-ubuntu
[03:58] <froud> Looks in gnome scrollkeeper extensions
[03:58] <froud> for about-ubuntu
[03:58] <enrico> it's in English here
[03:58] <seb128> here too
[03:58] <enrico> maybe I did something wrong with the packaging
[03:58] <froud> which is registere in scrollkeeper using omf
[03:58] <enrico> please tell me
[03:58] <seb128> no no
[03:58] <seb128> /usr/share/gnome/help/about-ubuntu/ca/about-ubuntu-ca.xml
[03:58] <seb128> /usr/share/gnome/help/about-ubuntu/fr
[03:58] <seb128> /usr/share/gnome/help/about-ubuntu/fr/about-ubuntu-fr.xml
[03:58] <seb128> 
[03:58] <seb128> that's wrong
[03:58] <seb128> nn/about-ubuntu.xml
[03:59] <seb128> no "-nn" for the name
[03:59] <seb128> that
[03:59] <seb128> ups
[03:59] <froud> seb128: I can tell you that wont work
[03:59] <enrico> aaaah! Ok
[03:59] <seb128> froud: works for me ...
[03:59] <froud> the file opens
[04:00] <enrico> let's see now...
[04:00] <seb128> enrico: sudo cp /usr/share/gnome/help/about-ubuntu/it/about-ubuntu-it.xml /usr/share/gnome/help/about-ubuntu/it/about-ubuntu.xml
[04:00] <seb128> should work
[04:00] <froud> how doe sit resilv ethe
[04:00] <froud> <!ENTITY % xinclude SYSTEM "../libs/xinclude.mod">
[04:00] <froud> %xinclude;
[04:00] <froud> <!ENTITY % globalent SYSTEM "../libs/global.ent">
[04:00] <froud> %globalent;
[04:00] <seb128> I don't even what that is
[04:00] <seb128> I just know that copying the translation xml to the right place works
[04:01] <claude> froud: these files have to be duplicated or symlinked
[04:01] <froud> seb128: do you see values for Benvinguts a Ubuntu Linux &distro-rev;: Versi &distro-version;
[04:01] <enrico> seb128: nicely Ttalian now
[04:01] <enrico> committing...
[04:01] <seb128> froud: right, that works fine
[04:02] <enrico> committed
[04:02] <enrico> try that out (note the package version has changed)
[04:03] <froud> enrico: svn I cleaned make-po
[04:04] <froud> enrico: we need to handle invalid po files
[04:05] <froud> enrico: when you have the nn docs in nn/ do all the entities expand correctly
[04:05] <seb128> enrico: great, works fine :)
[04:08] <enrico> froud: I don't konw about the entities
[04:08] <enrico> however, it's easy for you to check out
[04:08] <enrico> froud: as root, do dpkg-reconfigure locales   and add a locale of your choice
[04:08] <enrico> froud: then, do: LANG=<locale of your choice> yelp ghelp:about-ubuntu
[04:09] <enrico> If we're all happy, I intend to upload this
[04:09] <enrico> so, in case I won't be online in the next days, at least something goes in
[04:09] <enrico> And if something happens (like new translations come it), someone else can update the things if I'm offline
[04:10] <claude> quickguide-fr will come tonight
[04:16] <enrico> uploaded.  Better than before, hopefully will get even better
[04:18] <mdke> releasenotes-it coming tonight as well
[04:18] <enrico> wow!
[04:19] <mdke> claude, can't believe you've done quickguide, that is an immense achievement
[04:19] <claude> i didn't translate myself, work from ubuntu-fr
[04:19] <mdke> hmm
[04:19] <mdke> cool
[04:19] <claude> great guys :)
[04:19] <mdke> how did you distribute the work?
[04:20] <claude> nothing special, i merged different files by sdiff
[04:20] <claude> but i hope rosetta will help us for this
[04:20] <mdke> cool, so different people worked on different sections?
[04:20] <claude> yes
[04:20] <mdke> great
[04:21] <mdke> bien
[04:21] <claude> :)
[04:26] <froud> enrico: sorry reporter on the telephone
[04:26] <froud> enrico if you see the entities then it must work
[04:27] <froud> in about ubuntu you should see the revision number and the words Hoary Hedgehog in the first heading
[04:30] <enrico> they work!
[04:30] <enrico> froud: they work!
[04:30] <mdke> :))
[04:30] <froud> cool
[04:31] <froud> ok now about make-po
[04:31] <froud> seems to work well
[04:31] <froud> but 
[04:31] <froud> it would be better to overwrite only in cases where the file needs updating
[04:32] <froud> also we should cleanup the unused files
[04:32] <froud> Hmm german entities dont validate
[04:33] <enrico> oh, yes.  the cleanup is easy
[04:33] <mdke> damn
[04:34] <froud> I will have to incorporate German ents
[04:35] <mdke> do you want me to ping the translator?
[04:35] <mdke> (s)
[04:35] <froud> no
[04:35] <froud> no need
[04:35] <mdke> k
[04:49] <froud> enrico: we need to add a method to test for lang="nn" in make-po
[04:50] <froud> for example a german book should have <book lang="de">
[04:50] <froud> for example a french book should have <book lang="fr">
[04:50] <froud> etc
[04:50] <froud> we will also have to script for german docs some conditions
[04:51] <enrico> froud: then you want to switch to perl (or python) and spend a bit more time on it
[04:52] <froud> enrico: looks like we may need to but I dont perl or python
[04:52] <froud> I will try it with shell
[04:52] <froud> and sed
[04:53] <froud> it is mostly replacing entities like &auml; with the charcater number
[04:53] <froud> unicode number
[04:53] <froud> and I will do the testing for the lang
[04:53] <froud> Hmm this will be a cool script when it is done
[04:54] <froud> enrico: will you change so we only copy over files that have modifications
[04:54] <enrico> why not doing it with XSLT?
[04:54] <enrico> froud: is that needed now?
[04:54] <enrico> I'm back on doing something else
[04:54] <froud> not immediately
[04:54] <froud> I will check it
[04:54] <enrico> ok
[04:54] <enrico> ping me
[04:54] <froud> and see what I can do
[04:54] <froud> ok
[04:54] <enrico> if you don't see that coming
[04:55] <froud> perhaps I can do the replacements with xslt
[04:55] <froud> enrico: btw both those scripts are my first attempt at writing shell scripts
[04:55] <froud> not bad even if I say so myself
[04:56] <froud> Other scripts I have written have not been that comples
[04:56] <froud> complex
[04:56] <froud> lets see if carlos is there
[04:56] <froud> carlos: oing
[05:06] <enrico> froud: first attempo?  not bad , not bad at all!!
[05:32] <claude> bbl
[05:57] <carlos> froud: pong
[05:58] <froud> carlos: hi
[05:58] <froud> we finally meet'
[05:58] <carlos> but I'm a bit busy, so perhaps I will take sometime to answer
[05:58] <froud> hectic day
[05:58] <froud> we need to find a way to interact with Rosetta team
[05:58] <froud> can you help
[05:58] <froud> we = Ubuntu Doc Team
[05:59] <froud> perhaps we can automate or semi automate a process between the teams
[05:59] <froud> our process is as follows
[05:59] <froud> 1. we write doc.xml in en
[06:00] <froud> 2. we create doc.pot
[06:00] <froud> 3 we send doc.pot to i18n
[06:00] <froud> 4 we get back doc-nn.po
[06:00] <carlos> The new procedure should be:
[06:00] <carlos> 1. you write doc.xml in en
[06:00] <carlos> 2. you create doc.pot
[06:00] <froud> 5 we create doc-nn.xml
[06:01] <carlos> 3. you upload the .pot into Rosetta directly (not yet possible, will try to manage it this week)
[06:01] <carlos> 4. Translators update the translations using Rosetta
[06:01] <carlos> 5.- You get all translations from Rosetta
[06:01] <carlos> 6. you create doc-nn.xml from Rosetta's .po files
[06:02] <froud> great
[06:02] <froud> ok
[06:02] <froud> now
[06:02] <carlos> for that, I need an Ubuntu doc team created in launchpad
[06:02] <froud> when we make updates in doc.xml we merge changes into doc.po
[06:02] <carlos> with all people that should be able to upload .pot files into Rosetta as a member
[06:02] <froud> Ok
[06:02] <carlos> I can create the team
[06:03] <froud> Ok
[06:03] <carlos> but you should decide who is able to be a member
[06:03] <froud> i c
[06:03] <froud> can we not just script this 
[06:04] <froud> I mean if we have an update it will automatically upload
[06:04] <carlos> yeah, is another option
[06:04] <froud> ok hold with me on this
[06:04] <carlos> something what we have atm with application translation
[06:05] <froud> when we make a changes in doc.xml
[06:05] <froud> we update our pot
[06:05] <froud> somehow it gets to rosetta
[06:05] <froud> but this is not good
[06:05] <froud> cause the required will may only be 1%
[06:06] <froud> and yet translators get all english in the pot
[06:06] <froud> once we have a po is it not better to merge changes into the po and send that
[06:06] <carlos> don't understand you..
[06:06] <carlos> why is not good?
[06:07] <carlos> if you upload a new .pot file
[06:07] <froud> On first time we send pot. Good
[06:07] <carlos> a translator will get the merge for free by Rosetta
[06:07] <froud> on second time send updated pot
[06:07] <froud> OK
[06:07] <mdke> it might be cool to find a way to inform translators of an updated pot
[06:07] <carlos> the strings that were not changed will be still there with any translation they had already
[06:07] <froud> so we get back a PO and the translator only need focus on doing the changes :-)
[06:07] <carlos> and the new ones will appear as untranslated
[06:08] <carlos> froud: well, the statistics tell you if there are new translations to do
[06:08] <mdke> oh
[06:08] <froud> Ok so we fire only pot files
[06:08] <mdke> cool
[06:08] <carlos> and in the future I suppose we could add a kind of email notification or so
[06:08] <froud> how do we get them back
[06:09] <mdke> manually
[06:09] <mdke> would be doable
[06:09] <mdke> if you can't find a way to automate it, I am happy to volunteer for that job
[06:09] <mdke> just lemme know
[06:10] <froud> mdke: you should be added to the group in rosetta
[06:10] <froud> as with claude and enrico
[06:10] <mdke> ok
[06:10] <carlos> atm, manually
[06:10] <froud> carlos explain how to autoupload
[06:10] <carlos> (to get the translations back)
[06:10] <carlos> the autoupload:
[06:10] <froud> carlos: ok
[06:11] <mdke> afk
[06:11] <carlos> the easier way is create a debian source package that has the pot and po files
[06:11] <carlos> and upload it into hoary
[06:11] <carlos> that's all
[06:11] <carlos> Rosetta will handle it as a normal software upload
[06:12] <carlos> like pmount, gnome, etc...
[06:12] <froud> OK and the other way
[06:12] <carlos> the other option is to setup an alternative way to do the import from a url location you tell me and using a set of files I will define for you
[06:13] <carlos> but I'm not happy with this way 
[06:13] <froud> all of our stuff is in svn under https
[06:13] <carlos> because only for two packages, having another importing running is a waste of resources
[06:13] <froud> carlos we have only two docs at the moment
[06:13] <carlos> also it's a bit risky because autoimporting things from nontrusted machines...
[06:13] <froud> but we will have many more
[06:14] <froud> canonical machine
[06:14] <carlos> froud: the svn integration at the moment, is imposible
[06:14] <froud> https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk
[06:14] <carlos> froud: perhaps later, but not  *now*
[06:14] <froud> Ok so we will make packages
[06:14] <carlos> froud: I need a tarball like the one you gave me last week
[06:15] <froud> like what Thom gave you
[06:15] <carlos> you == ubuntu doc team :-)
[06:15] <froud> ok enrico will explain
[06:15] <froud> OK, so in order to upload we must finish all docs
[06:15] <carlos> froud: does anyone from the Ubuntu doc team have access to people.ubuntu.com?
[06:16] <froud> may be enrico
[06:16] <froud> otherwise mako helps us
[06:16] <froud> why?
[06:20] <carlos> froud: because there is another way to integrate the .pot files without using Ubuntu's archive
[06:20] <carlos> but implies direct access to that machine
[06:20] <froud> I see, explain
[06:21] <carlos> nothing to explain, you need a shell account to do it :-)
[06:21] <carlos> that's all
[06:21] <carlos> froud: I need to check something with Mark and Daf 
[06:21] <froud> I understand
[06:21] <carlos> can we talk about this tomorrow?
[06:21] <froud> yes
[06:21] <carlos> perhaps we could avoid the shell account
[06:21] <froud> ok
[06:21] <carlos> but need to check before with them
[06:22] <froud> we need to take into consideration that we have mutiple books
[06:22] <carlos> oh, another option is use a shell script that I did some months ago to do the web submit 
[06:22] <froud> send the script to sean@inwords.co.za
[06:22] <carlos> so you do the upload but with that script (using curl)
[06:23] <carlos> froud: the script does not works as it's at the moment, it's just a submit request over https
[06:23] <carlos> and the url changed a bit since I did it
[06:23] <froud> OK, but I dont want just anyone to run that
[06:23] <carlos> well, you need your launchpad's user+password
[06:23] <froud> Ok so we need to make a package for each document
[06:23] <carlos> so you should be allowed to do that from a web browser
[06:24] <carlos> the script does not lets you do antyhing you are not allowed to do from firefox
[06:24] <froud> ok
[06:25] <froud> and the package must contain all docs or each package must contain a doc
[06:26] <carlos> for the script you only need the .pot file and the url where it should be submitted
[06:26] <carlos> for the other way I was explaining you
[06:26] <carlos> a package can hold more than one .pot file
[06:26] <froud> the script sounds perfect
[06:26] <carlos> the package must be the ubuntu source package that will hold the documentation
[06:27] <carlos> anything else? I need to leave in 5 minutes
[06:27] <froud> carlos the script sounds good cause we can have many pot files in the large documents
[06:27] <carlos> hmm
[06:27] <froud> for example when we use mutiple files to assemble a document
[06:27] <carlos> the first upload cannot be done over the web
[06:28] <froud> each file holds a chapter
[06:28] <carlos> only updates
[06:28] <mdke> anyway we have plenty of time to work this out right?
[06:28] <mdke> we're talking post hoary?
[06:28] <carlos> oh, sure
[06:28] <froud> OK cool
[06:28] <carlos> I suppose some of you will come to .au, right?
[06:28] <mdke> rosetta will be fixed by then
[06:28] <froud> mdke: yeah but I must to structure and ensure that this stuff is factored in
[06:28] <mdke> carlos, none of us are coming
[06:28] <carlos> we could talk about this there
[06:29] <carlos> none?
[06:29] <carlos> hmmm
[06:29] <carlos> ok
[06:29] <mdke> maybe enrico
[06:29] <froud> Ok carlos thanks fo ryour time. c ya
[06:30] <carlos> then, if you could send to rosetta@ubuntu.com a small document about all the requirements you have and what you miss in Rosetta, we could look into it on .au
[06:30] <mdke> heh
[06:30] <carlos> that way we know exactly your needs and take them into account while preparing the changes/additions for bendy
[06:31] <mdke> whats bendy?
[06:31] <froud> ok
[06:31] <carlos> hmm, wrong name?
[06:31] <carlos> hoary + 1 
[06:31] <mdke> o i c
[06:31] <mdke> cool
[06:32] <carlos> ok, wrong name 
[06:32] <carlos> breezy
[06:33] <carlos> :-P
[06:33] <carlos> ok, see you later!
[06:34] <mdke> it'll be ok
[08:24] <jjesse> l
[08:26] <mdke> l
[08:32] <jjesse> grin typo :)
[09:19] <froud> mdke: we have two untranslated messages in de
[09:59] <mdke> froud, lol
[09:59] <mdke> froud, Rosetta said it was 106% complete
[09:59] <froud> mdke: 
[09:59] <froud> msgfmt: releasenotes/release-notes-de.po: warning: PO file header fuzzy
[09:59] <froud>                                           warning: older versions of msgfmt will give an error on this
[09:59] <froud> 125 translated messages, 2 untranslated messages.
[09:59] <mdke> weird
[09:59] <mdke> lemme look
[10:00] <mdke> damn yeah
[10:00] <mdke> i'll look into it
[10:01] <froud> thanks
[10:03] <mdke> seems to be a problem
[10:03] <froud> Burgundavia: we have sorted make-po
[10:04] <mdke> froud, rosetta made 3 bad tokens
[10:05] <mdke> inserting weird slashes and stuff
[10:05] <froud> yes
[10:05] <mdke> lemme check the rest and i'll re-email
[10:05] <mdke> shit
[10:05] <froud> mdke: do svn up first I just did a bunch of stuff
[10:05] <mdke> froud, to the po?
[10:06] <froud> sometimes was needed in the po
[10:06] <froud> but do svn up and you will have waht I fixed
[10:06] <mdke> ok
[10:06] <mdke> seems that rosetta doesn't handle our <tags> and stuff
[10:06] <froud> mdke: we also have a problem with the header
[10:06] <mdke> *sighs*
[10:07] <froud> I have a bout three forms
[10:07] <froud> mdke: checkout the de header it is what we want ideally
[10:08] <mdke> right
[10:08] <mdke> so the other headers were bad too?
[10:08] <froud> not completely
[10:08] <froud> just the de header was the best
[10:08] <mdke> the headers are defined by the editing program I guess
[10:08] <froud> perhaps cause it was created using KBabel :-)
[10:09] <mdke> nah rosetta
[10:09] <froud> yes unless the autor did it in the src
[10:09] <froud> without an editor
[10:09] <mdke> i'm editing it using poedit so better recheck the header after
[10:10] <froud> it is not a major problem but would be nice to have consistant
[10:10] <froud> hello claude
[10:10] <claude> hi all
[10:10] <mdke> froud, how did you clean up the release-notes-de.po?
[10:10] <mdke> those translations were present in the po i emailed you
[10:10] <claude> just finished the quickguide-fr !!
[10:11] <froud> mdke: :-)
[10:11] <claude> froud: i send it just to you
[10:11] <froud> by hand
[10:11] <froud> wow claude 
[10:11] <froud> that is soo cool
[10:11] <mdke> froud, i have a copy of the one I downloaded from rosetta, so I'll restore and email
[10:11] <froud> why the one in svn is no good?
[10:12] <mdke> the two missing messages were present in the one i downloaded, i'll copy them into the one from svn
[10:12] <froud> claude: did you see the make-pot and make-po scripts
[10:12] <froud> ok
[10:12] <froud> Hmm I did not edit out any messages
[10:13] <mdke> froud, maybe my bad
[10:13] <mdke> maybe they have edited it since I downloaded
[10:13] <mdke> yeah that must be it
[10:13] <mdke> or rosetta has been improved or something
[10:13] <mdke> god knows
[10:13] <froud> yeah this is why we need email to the list to say it has changed
[10:13] <mdke> i mean the system
[10:13] <claude> froud: had no time til now :-P
[10:13] <froud> without this we will not keep track
[10:14] <froud> claude:  so this was you in slow motion :-) I would love to see you in normal mode
[10:14] <claude> lol
[10:14] <froud> claude: who did you mail to me or the list?
[10:15] <claude> froud: to you because i think it's too big for mailing on a list 
[10:15] <froud> claude: btw enrico sorted out that the translation will get into the users desktops
[10:15] <froud> ok has not arrived yet
[10:15] <mdke> froud, so you edited all the <ulink url...> stuff by hand?
[10:16] <froud> mdke: yes the gnome one
[10:16] <claude> i read your fruitful discussion today
[10:16] <froud> ok right
[10:16] <mdke> froud, there are more
[10:16] <froud> seems we will lick this i18n thing oneday
[10:16] <froud> mdke: could be
[10:16] <mdke> yeah
[10:16] <mdke> i see some
[10:16] <mdke> damn
[10:17] <mdke> another thing to blame on rosetta :)
[10:17] <mdke> unless...
[10:17] <mdke> you didn't run any scripts on it did you?
[10:18] <froud> claude: do know if the menus are defined in a single place
[10:18] <froud> mdke: no why?
[10:18] <mdke> froud, there are lots of slashes inserted in some of the messages
[10:18] <claude> froud: don't undestrand what you mean
[10:20] <froud> I wonder if there is a single file defining all desktop menus so I can create the xmls from that
[10:20] <froud> I would need to do it for gnome and kde
[10:21] <mdke> froud, ok we need to check the xml for this. I've left some of the slashes in as they look intentional
[10:21] <froud> I would not know. It's up to you
[10:21] <froud> \ is used normally to escape
[10:21] <mdke> np
[10:21] <froud> for example \&
[10:22] <froud> means treat & as literal
[10:22] <mdke> seems to appear where there are "
[10:22] <mdke> for example in the ulink bits, there are \\\ in the german bit, and \ in the english bit
[10:22] <mdke> anyway i've taken those out
[10:23] <mdke> sent
[10:24] <mdke> if you build an xml and commit, i'll check
[10:24] <froud> ok
[10:25] <mdke> ping me when done
[10:25] <mdke> no rush
[10:26] <claude> froud: are you talking about common/menus/*.xml ?
[10:27] <froud> yes I can build those files from changes in the menu
[10:28] <claude> the problem is that i'm still in Warty
[10:29] <claude> not sure about the menu names in Hoary
[10:29] <claude> :(
[10:35] <froud> claude: Hmm why dont you update
[10:35] <claude> i will, i will...
[10:36] <claude> but i don't like to be beta-tester, normally
[10:36] <claude> but for the sake of the Docteam ... :)
[10:37] <froud> mdke: all better
[10:37] <froud> msgfmt: aboutubuntu/about-ubuntu-de.po: warning: PO file header fuzzy
[10:37] <froud>                                         warning: older versions of msgfmt will give an error on this
[10:37] <froud> 24 translated messages.
[10:38] <mdke> what the hell is dis?
[10:38] <froud> mdke: svn up
[10:38] <mdke> is that message bad?
[10:38] <claude> you just need to strip the word fuzzy in the file
[10:38] <froud> no its not
[10:38] <claude> it means that the file has been generated automatically
[10:38] <mdke> right
[10:39] <froud> claude: quick guide fr is now in svn
[10:39] <claude> i saw
[10:39] <claude> great !
[10:39] <claude> i think it's too late for files in common
[10:39] <froud> yeah
[10:40] <froud> btw to make the xml all you need to do is make po
[10:40] <mdke> ok the slashes are not a problem
[10:40] <mdke> good
[10:40] <froud> and it will find all po files and create xml files if there are differences
[10:40] <mdke> have checked the xml and everything is cool for release-notes-de
[10:40] <froud> mdke: thanks sude
[10:40] <claude> i'm sorry that our files couldn't be in language packs
[10:40] <froud> s/s/d
[10:41] <froud> Oh well
[10:41] <claude> that means that we won't be able to make update before Hoary+1
[10:41] <claude> i think
[10:41] <mdke> now for getting translated screenshots into hoary
[10:41] <froud> Yes
[10:41] <froud> Ha ha ha
[10:41] <mdke> *coughs* j/k
[10:43] <froud> Hey I must go. Thanks for your help
[10:43] <mdke> k
[10:43] <claude> bye
[10:43] <froud> enough for night, no?
[10:44] <mdke> bye froud
[10:44] <mdke> italian releasenotes will be with you v soon
[10:44] <froud> get them in the morning ;-)
[10:44] <mdke> yep
[10:44] <mdke> np