[12:07] <cmf> ahh, can't you edit permissions on the page so random cmf's can't delete it in future?
[12:08] <apokryphos> Does it run up everyone's CPU on there? Does for me almost every time
[12:13] <Riddell> apokryphos: that's plone that does that and it's a reported problem with kiohttp
[12:13] <Riddell> cmf: nope, that's the point of a wiki :)
[12:13] <apokryphos> Yup; that's what runs up.
[12:14] <cmf> Riddell: fair
[12:17] <Riddell> apokryphos: killall -9 kio_http  and reload the page seems to be the best you can do
[12:17] <apokryphos> Yup, that's what I end up doing generally.
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[12:37] <uniq> who asked about rosegarden? 
[12:38] <Riddell> uniq: cmf did
[12:38] <uniq> debian got 1.0-1 in sid.
[12:38] <uniq> we have 0.9.9-1 in universe.. 
[12:39] <Riddell> is that so...will have to see what can be done about that then :)
[12:39] <Riddell> but not tonight
[12:40] <uniq> :)
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[12:41] <mdz> Riddell: what's pulling pccts into main, and has pitti reviewed it?
[12:42] <Riddell> mdz: never heard of it
[12:42] <elmo> it's a b-d of cdrdao
[12:42] <amu> mdz: cdrdao
[12:42] <mdz> oh, gah
[12:43] <mdz> I thought we had established that k3b did not depend on cdrdao anyway?
[12:43] <amu> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7877
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[12:57] <AMIGrAve> is there a kubuntu-dev mailing list ?
[12:57] <Riddell> AMIGrAve: yep
[12:58] <AMIGrAve> Riddell: it is not mentionned on http://www.kubuntu.org.uk/faq.php
[12:58] <AMIGrAve> Riddell: made a patch for qtorrent wich won't run with the new pyqt, I send it on ubuntu dev or kubuntu dev ?
[12:59] <mdz> amu: new packages cannot enter main without review
[12:59] <mdz> amu: pitti reviewed cdrdao, but no one mentioned pccts
[12:59] <Riddell> AMIGrAve: groovy, kubuntu-devel please
[12:59] <Riddell> AMIGrAve: pyqt will probably be updated again soon 
[12:59] <Riddell> AMIGrAve: or open a report on bugzilla
[01:00] <Riddell> AMIGrAve: actually you can't do bugzilla because it's universe, use the mailing list
[01:00] <AMIGrAve> Riddell: I'll send a mail so I can CC the author of qtorrent
[01:01] <mdz> Riddell: universe reports go to Malone now
[01:01] <mdz> there's a hyperlink from bugzilla
[01:01] <Riddell> ah cool
[01:09] <amu> mdz: haggai: arg, i will change it back, and add a suggest line. I suggest, let the waring exist, that there is no cdrao, user should install it himself for now.
[01:11] <Riddell> can we not get cdrdao in main if it gets changed to be not setuid?
[01:13] <motaboy> Night All!
[01:19] <amu> Riddell: it's already not suid, the problem are the depends of cdrdao, which are not checked by pitti, pitti checked only cdrdao
[01:20] <Riddell> right
[01:25] <Riddell> AMIGrAve: I've added a note about kubuntu-devel to https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HelpingKubuntu and added a link to that from the faq
[01:26] <AMIGrAve> Riddell: ok, i'm not sure the mail I sent to kubuntu-dev has acutally be sent (gmail trouble). If it's not, here are the patches : http://www.amigrave.com/upload/posts/qtorrent/
[01:27] <AMIGrAve> Riddell: do you get some sleep sometimes ? ;-)
[01:28] <Riddell> AMIGrAve: kubuntu-devel got an e-mail from amigrave@gmail.com
[01:30] <AMIGrAve> Riddell: is there a WNPP for kubuntu ?
[01:30] <Riddell> AMIGrAve: what's one of those?
[01:31] <cartel_> riddell: debian use it as a list of orphaned/wishlist packages
[01:31] <AMIGrAve> Riddell: http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/
[01:31] <cartel_>  Work-Needing and Prospective Package
[01:31] <Riddell> oh right, no don't think so
[01:31] <Riddell> but there's wiki pages
[01:31] <Riddell> KubuntuSuggestedPackages is the one I pay attention to
[01:31] <cartel_> (k)ubuntu dont use itps either
[01:32] <cartel_> less beurocracy than debian
[01:32] <cartel_> but then kubuntu is much smaller
[01:32] <cartel_> in scope
[01:32] <AMIGrAve> Riddell: i'll study more the wiki instead of asking questions that are probably in it ;-) I was just asking because I would like to help
[01:32] <Riddell> AMIGrAve: asking is good
[01:32] <cartel_> amiga are you a debian developer?
[01:32] <cartel_> keysigned?
[01:33] <AMIGrAve> cartel_: no, I even don't know yet how to package deb's ;-)
[01:33] <cartel_> AMIGrAve: just read the debian new maintainers guide
[01:33] <cartel_> :)
[01:34] <AMIGrAve> cartel_: I wanted to learn that before but when I saw of difficult it was to help in debian I dropped
[01:34] <AMIGrAve> cartel_: yep I saw a link in the wiki, i'll learn that
[01:34] <Riddell> AMIGrAve: welcome to kubuntu :)
[01:34] <AMIGrAve> thanks ;-)
[01:35] <AMIGrAve> you all here have full time job outside of the pleasure of working on kubuntu ?
[01:35] <Riddell> why would we want one of those?
[01:36] <AMIGrAve> earn money to feed the pets, things like that ;-)
[01:37] <Riddell> the household cat is quite fat enough, I'm going to refuse to feed him soon
[01:37] <cartel_> i unfortunately have a full time job
[01:38] <uniq> I do to.
[01:38] <uniq> full time + some.. 
[01:39] <AMIGrAve> yeah me too
[01:40] <AMIGrAve> cartel_: how much time per week do you give to kubuntu ?
[01:40] <cartel_> none at the mo!
[01:41] <uniq> I'm thinking of getting a mac mini.. nice little box..
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[01:42] <AMIGrAve> work in 6 hours going to bed, see you soon
=== cartel_ finds something new to package
[01:49] <Riddell> cartel_: what's that?
[01:51] <apokryphos> Riddell: is knemo in properly? It's installed, but doesn't seem to be addable when trying to add applet
=== apokryphos wondering if he compiled it himself now, actually
[01:52] <uniq> apokryphos: it's not applets.. it docks a icon into the systemtray for each device you add.
[01:53] <apokryphos> uniq: I know :). But to add it, do you not Configure Panel > Add to Panel > Applet
[01:53] <uniq> no.
[01:53] <Riddell> never used knemo
[01:53] <uniq> you configure it in control center.
[01:53] <cartel_> Riddell: triplea.sourceforge.net :)
[01:53] <cartel_> its not in debian
[01:54] <apokryphos> I'm almost 90% sure that you should be able to add it that way. Quite sure I did it like that in the past
[01:54] <uniq> control center - internet & network - network monitor
[01:55] <apokryphos> Ah, control centre part is new in 0.3.1
[01:58] <dato> I believe it's in kalyxo, though
[01:58] <cartel_> dato: what is?
[01:59] <dato> knemo
[02:02] <uniq> it's in universe too.
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=== apokryphos loves knemo. Missed it.
=== uniq got too much stuff in his lower right corner.
[02:09] <uniq> systray full of crap.. even when most of the icons are hidden.
[02:56] <uniq> gnite guys.
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[10:29] <haggai> amu: I already spoke to pitti about cdrdao on #ubuntu-devel, and I agreed with him to use the internal pccts.  I didn't say to you I was ready with cdrdao...
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[02:43] <uniq> riddell: http://frode.kde.no/ubuntu - rosegarden4 packages for review. basically sid packages recompiled.
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[04:37] <ttf> Kamion: some time back I've reported that even if you say "No" to download the language pack during install it will download it - has this been fixed?
[04:38] <Kamion> ttf: yeah
[04:38] <Kamion> should've been anyway. try a current daily
[04:39] <ttf> k - thanks
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[06:32] <mdz> morning
[06:34] <mdz> I'd like to catch up with you guys about kubuntu release status and any outstanding issues
[06:34] <mdz> when would be a good time?
[06:35] <Riddell> mdz: I'm here, any time is good for me I think
[06:35] <mdz> ok
[06:35] <mdz> amu,haggai?
[06:36] <haggai> mdz: yup
[06:37] <haggai> mdz: I'm available all this evening
[06:39] <Riddell> libtunepimp is still brining libmad onto the CD, do we need to recompile that?
[06:40] <haggai> Riddell: what needs that?  Can the depends be overriden?
[06:40] <Riddell> haggai: juk, amarok
[06:42] <haggai> hmm it links directly to libmad :(
[06:42] <mdz> I can catch up with amu another time, let's talk now since you're both here
[06:43] <mdz> we'd like to start a test cycle today or tomorrow
[06:43] <Riddell> mdz: testing CDs?
[06:44] <mdz> yes
[06:45] <mdz> preparing for the final release on Friday
[06:46] <Riddell> ok, what do we need to do?
[06:48] <haggai> libtunepimp looks bad, it links directly to libmad, and is directly linked to by the juk and amarok binaries
[06:48] <Riddell> haggai: it can be compiled to not use libmad easily enough, but presumably you then loose MP3 tagging ability
[06:49] <haggai> Riddell: yes :(
[06:49] <Riddell> but I'm not sure why juk uses libtunepimp when it has taglib
[06:53] <haggai> mdz: so, outstanding issues I have are cdrdao and the mp3 issues.  I'm trying to get xine tp use the external libmad atm
[06:54] <mdz> haggai: I thought cdrdao was a non-issue, or that we only needed to disable the complaint
[06:55] <Riddell> I'm looking at a couple of changes to the menus.  also I'm trying and failing to make sense of python-kde3 which just doesn't want to work, but that's in universe.  also akregator konq plugin has disappeared
[06:55] <mdz> Riddell: I didn't think libmad had tagging functionality at all
[06:55] <Riddell> mdz: no, libtunepimp does and it depends on libmad
[06:56] <mdz> Riddell: but libtunepimp should be able to tag mp3s without libmad
[06:56] <haggai> mdz: cdrdao does a better job of cd writing in dao mode than cdrecord
[06:56] <haggai> mdz: k3b chooses it when available for certain tasks
[06:56] <haggai> mdz: so I wanted to get it into main
[06:56] <mdz> it's quite late to add new packages to the desktop
[06:57] <mdz> adding it to supported should be achievable
[06:58] <haggai> what are you thinking of re adding to desktop?  It does not install anything other than binaries that are used by k3b, so I don't see a big danger here
[07:00] <Riddell> haggai: I suspect libtunepimp is only used by musicbrains and not as the main tagger for both juk and amarok
[07:04] <apokryphos> (amaroK uses solely TagLib)
[07:04] <Riddell> apokryphos: but it also depends on libtunepimp
[07:05] <apokryphos> yah, for MusicBrainz
[07:07] <Riddell> I don't get why musicbrains doesn't depend on libtunepimp then instead of juk and amarok having to do it
[07:08] <apokryphos> MusicBrainz is optional... amaroK doesn't depend on it; only amaroK with Musicbrainz support
[07:13] <haggai> apokryphos: the problem is, amarok links directly to the libs so we can't make it optional at runtime
[07:13] <Riddell> I think that removing libmad from tunepimp is the best way, you loose musicbrains support but not general tagging
[07:14] <apokryphos> ah; quite a pickle.
[07:14] <haggai> Riddell: right, sounds like it then
[07:14] <haggai> python-tunepimp also uses libtunepimp but there are no packages that use it
[07:16] <haggai> in libtunepimp configure.in:
[07:16] <haggai>              echo "*  The MAD mp3 decoder is not installed. Please download "
[07:16] <haggai>              echo "*  the decoder from http://www.mars.org/home/rob/proj/mpeg"
[07:16] <haggai>              echo "*  to include MP3 TRM generation capabilities."
=== haggai looks for a definition of TRM
[07:17] <haggai> TRM creates a unique signature by analyzing thirty-seconds of an audio file for data values relating to a number of acoustic features
[07:17] <Riddell> haggai: doesn't sound like too great a loss then
[07:18] <Riddell> I'll upload a new tunepimp
[07:18] <dato> er
[07:19] <dato> nah, nvm. you loose the posibility of asking musicbrainz about mp3 files, but guess it's ok
[07:21] <Riddell> better than removing musicbrainz from juk and amarok which is the other alternative
[07:25] <Riddell> haggai: any opinion on having the kmenu use 32x32 icons?
[07:27] <haggai> Riddell: looking at libtunepimp it seems the API/ABI does not change when you have libmad support, so people will be able to install a libmad-enabled package without needing to recompile juk/amarok
[07:28] <haggai> Riddell: (icons) just the top level, or all levels?
[07:42] <mdz> haggai: re: adding to desktop, I was thinking about cdrdao
[07:42] <mdz> but if you only want it in supported, I think that's fine (given that the build-dependency is sorted out)
[07:43] <mdz> do you guys have a preference between a separate Kubuntu announcement, and a joint announcement with Ubuntu?
[07:46] <haggai> I think we should do 2 announcements.  The kubuntu announce went a bit unnoticed tucked away below the ubuntu rc
[07:47] <haggai> so I think 2 seperate mails to -announce would be better
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[08:47] <motaboy> allee: hi!
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[09:08] <allee> motaboy: hi!
[09:08] <allee> motaboy: any news from the kbt front?
[09:55] <motaboy> allee: none that I know. I'm trying to implement a debian alternatives for kbluepin
[09:55] <motaboy> allee: BTW are you the digikam mantainer?
[09:56] <allee> motaboy: yes. (we are three but the other two are quite busy for work/family)
[09:56] <motaboy> allee: Is there an updated version for ubuntu?
[09:57] <allee> motaboy: yes wait ...
[09:57] <allee> http://www.mpe.mpg.de/~ach/kubuntu/hoary/Pkgs.php
[09:58] <allee> debian sid only is some minor cosmetics ahead
[10:00] <allee> motaboy: alternatives, like /etc/alternatives or a wrapper script that calls kbluepin, bluepin-* depending on enviroment?
[10:00] <allee> bb in some minute
[10:00] <allee> s
[10:00] <motaboy> allee: I was thinking about /etc/alternatives like suggested by haggai 
[10:02] <allee> motaboy: I'm not fan of such a solution because life is sometimes more complicated that 'everyone' uses KDE on this host ...
[10:02] <allee> motaboy: but admitted it's better than the current 'edit the config file'
[10:15] <mdz> haggai: ok, that can be arranged.  would one of you like to do the kubuntu announcement?
[10:17] <motaboy> allee: The wrapper can be a good idea, but I don't know how to get which de is running and how a users can override this choose with a preferred one.
[10:29] <allee> motaboy: hmm, right it's still tricky.  maybe having kbluetooth register with dbus like the python-dbus script would be much simpler
[10:32] <allee> motaboy: sorry, bluez-pin isn't (was it ever?) a python script :(
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[11:04] <Kamion> there are new Kubuntu daily install/live CDs up with most of today's installer changes (mostly just translations, but some a bit more intrusive), if folks want to test
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[11:07] <elmo> Riddell: ?
[11:07] <elmo> Riddell: your clock is broken and it's causing your gwenview upload to FTBFS
[11:11] <haggai> mdz: ok, when do you need it?
[11:11] <mdz> haggai: thursday evening UTC
[11:11] <mdz> also, as Kamion mentioned, there's a new set of CDs up, and they need to be tested
[11:12] <haggai> great thanks we'll get going on them
=== haggai starts download
[11:15] <mdz> for the next few days, it would be a good idea to regularly sync up so that you're never far away from the latest ISO via rsync
[11:23] <haggai> yes I had been until the daylies stoped
[11:27] <cmf> uniq: hi, rosegarden pkg seems good, but as i requested in my comment, could you rename the executable to rosegarden rather than rosegarden4? also there doesn't seem to be an icon installed
[11:27] <cmf> uniq: also the kmenu entry is rosegarden 4? should it not just be rosegarden?
[11:27] <mdz> haggai: they only stopped for a short time around RC
[11:28] <haggai> mdz: ah ok
[11:28] <cmf> uniq: and no icon in titlebar ot taskbar, just teh blank document one when no icon is present, aside from that all good, thanks
[11:28] <mdz> haggai: see #ubuntu-devel scrollback for the past 10 minutes or so, if you're seeing old ISOs
[11:29] <uniq> cmf: I'll look into those glitches.
[11:29] <cmf> uniq: thanks :)
[11:29] <uniq> now it's basically a copy of the package from debian sid.. 
[11:30] <haggai> mdz: thanks, looks like my first connection is ok
[11:34] <uniq> cmf: you have /usr/share/applnk/Multimedia/rosegarden.desktop don't you? 
[11:36] <uniq> there are icons too.. dpkg -L rosegarden4|grep rosegarden.png
[11:36] <uniq> and two rosegarden.xpm's.
[11:37] <cmf> yeah, there are icons, but when ypu type "rosegarden4" into run, it's just the cog, no rosegarden icon, and title bar and taskbar are the blank icon (blank page thing)
[11:37] <uniq> ah.. 
[11:38] <uniq> input into run is easy to fix.. either rename the binary to rosegarden.. or rename the icons to rosegarden4.png
[11:39] <uniq> I'll fix it in the package.
[11:39] <cmf> okies
[11:39] <cmf> you renaming th ebin?
[11:40] <uniq> I'll look into coexsisting with rosegarden2.. 
[11:41] <cmf> okies
[11:41] <cmf> but isn't rosegarden2 depreciated?
[11:41] <cmf> and unmaintained?
[11:41] <haggai> and not in ubuntu
[11:41] <uniq> dunno. it's in universe.
[11:41] <haggai> oh :)
[11:41] <uniq> .. or not? 
[11:41] <uniq> Filename: pool/universe/r/rosegarden2/rosegarden2_2.1pl4-2_amd64.deb
[11:42] <uniq> if we could remove that.. it wouldn't be a problem at all.
[11:42] <haggai> rosegarden - An integrated MIDI sequencer and musical notation editor
[11:42] <haggai> rosegarden2 - An integrated MIDI sequencer and musical notation editor
[11:42] <haggai> rosegarden4 - Music Editor and MIDI/Audio Sequencer
[11:42] <haggai> hmm
[11:42] <uniq> rosegarden is rosegarden2.
[11:42] <uniq> rosegarden4 is the only useable.
[11:43] <haggai> I think I'd just conflict with the others, and start procedures to get rosegarden removed
[11:43] <haggai> well, rosegarden2 removed :)
[11:43] <uniq> sure.
[11:44] <uniq> /usr/bin/rosegarden2
[11:44] <uniq> i think we safely can use /usr/bin/rosegarden
[11:44] <haggai> yup, and conflict with rosegarden2, rosegarden
[11:44] <uniq> and maybe change the rosegarden package.. to be a meta-package for rosegarden4 instead.
[11:45] <uniq> wouldn't need to conflict.. 
[11:45] <uniq> rosegarden2 uses /usr/bin/rosegarden2.. 
[11:45] <haggai> or.. just rename the whole thing to rosegarden
[11:45] <haggai> (package)
[11:45] <uniq> even better.
[11:46] <uniq> that's probably the best solution.
[11:46] <uniq> haha.. 
[11:46] <uniq> rosegarden2 is -OLD-
[11:47] <uniq> "One of the Rosegarden programs has just died, horribly." 
[11:47] <uniq> heh.. nice.
=== uniq votes for removal of rosegarden2.
[11:48] <haggai>   * The package for rosegarden 2.1 has been renamed to "rosegarden2"
[11:48] <haggai>      "rosegarden" is now a dummy package depending on "rosegarden2". In
[11:48] <haggai>      future Debian releases "rosegarden" will be the Debian package
[11:48] <haggai>      holding Rosegarden version 4, now in package "rosegarden4".
[11:48] <uniq> in future versions :)
[11:48] <haggai> last upload was 2004-08-14 :)
[11:49] <haggai> so that doesn't reflect the 1.0 upload yet
[11:50] <haggai> I'd say 1.0 is a pretty good future version to do the rename
[11:55] <uniq> the ap is actually reffered to as rosegarden 4 on the project homepage.. 
[11:55] <uniq> http://www.rosegardenmusic.com/
[11:55] <uniq> ap/app
[11:56] <uniq> maybe it's better to make a replacement rosegarden package.. that depends on rosegarden4.. instead of renaming the package.. what do you think? 
[11:57] <uniq> the rpms are named rosegarden4
[11:59] <cmf> i think just naming rosegarden, but that's just me...
[11:59] <uniq> it's probably easier.