[12:05] <mxpxpod> jbailey: haha, ok
[12:05] <mxpxpod> jbailey: I may take a look at what we can do for the breezy release
[12:05] <daniels> mdz: pong
[12:06] <doko> mdz, jbailey: yes, let's do that tomorrow. I'd like to see the glibc update first, independent from that toolchain updates, and once glibc has stabilized, start the C++ transition.
[12:06] <jbailey> mdz: My preference for efficiency is to have glibc and gcc disruptive work done before so that after UDU people can work on their plans with the gcc and glibc bump done already.  If we do a toolchain BOF, I'd like to talk about the idea of making sure that everything in the archive (or at least main) is rebuilt with the new toolchain (to work around unreproducable ABI bugs, and such) versus the cost of killi
[12:06] <jbailey> ng partal upgrades to some degree.
[12:06] <mxpxpod> jbailey: anyway, I gotta get going
[12:06] <mdz> daniels: any pending xorg changes for Hoary, or can we freeze it?
[12:07] <jbailey> mxpxpod: If you have hack time, great.
[12:07] <mdz> doko: do you think it will be achievable to do the transition before UDU?
[12:07] <daniels> mdz: still a couple of pending changes that I'm hoping to finalise today
[12:08] <mdz> I suppose I'll outline a BOF, and we can revise based on status as of UDU
[12:08] <daniels> mdz: fix a small error in the Radeon DDC code so it works on Studio Displays (the whole display just stays off without it), further beat on the Debconfiscation
[12:09] <mdz> daniels: what debconfiscation issues remain?
[12:09] <doko> mdz: difficult, I'll give an estimate tomorrow
[12:10] <jbailey> doko: Works for me.  Just need to sort out whether it should be built with gcc-3.4 initially, or done with the gcc-4.0 snapshot.
[12:11] <daniels> mdz: #8562, for one
[12:11] <daniels> mdz: other than that, it seems very solid
[12:12] <toresbe> the livecd reboots if I kill X, right?
[12:12] <mdke> daniels, do you know if #8543 is a valid bug
[12:13] <blahrus> just wanted to let someone know . . . when I boot the amd64 live rc cd, starts doing it thing then says fails
[12:13] <blahrus> install failes*
[12:15] <doko> mdz, jbailey: look at http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?which=submitter&data=aj%40andaco.de&archive=no , these are known issues
[12:18] <daniels> mdke: i assume so, but I don't know why
[12:19] <jbailey> doko: Oh wow.  That's insane.
[12:19] <mdke> daniels, never heard of anything similar?
[12:19] <daniels> mdke: there just aren't really many people using sis
[12:19] <mdke> ahhh
[12:19] <mdke> i c
[12:20] <mdke> the guy who reported the bug is nice, he speaks no english and has never filed a bug so i'm trying to help him
[12:20] <toresbe> killing X would cause the livecd to reboot, right?
[12:23] <mdz> doko: oh, that's helpful
[12:23] <mdz> doko: even better would be to break that down into main and universe
[12:23] <mdz> daniels: I'm very iffy about debconfiscation changes this week; please limit it to simple and safe changes, and make today the last day for debconf changes
[12:27] <koke> mvo: I sent an updated spanish translation to synaptic-devel@ some days ago, do you know if it has been commited?
[12:27] <koke> it fixed a typo and some fuzzy strings
[12:28] <mvo> koke: let me check
[12:28] <toresbe> man... Ubuntu hoary is *beautiful*
[12:29] <mvo> koke: not in yet, sorry
[12:29] <mvo> koke: I will take care of it tomorrow
[12:29] <koke> ok, thanks
[12:30] <daniels> mdz: yeah
[12:31] <mvo> koke: commited, thanks again!
[12:32] <koke> great :)
[12:32] <sjmorgan> it's tomorrow already?
[12:32] <sjmorgan> time travel really takes it out of you
[12:34] <toresbe>  I thought OOo2 beta was in Hoary
[12:35] <elmo> it's in universe
[12:35] <toresbe> ok
[12:35] <toresbe> man, that's it...
[12:35] <toresbe> this is so much cooler than Deb sid
[12:35] <toresbe> I'm switching to Hoary, period
[12:36] <Burgundavia> toresbe: generally, #ubuntu is for help relating things. -devel is for the actual developmetn of the distro
[12:36] <toresbe> Burgundavia: yeah... but #ubuntu sucks :P
[12:36] <Burgundavia> toresbe: this is not the correct channel for this
[12:37] <toresbe> I know, sorry.
[12:41] <diego> have you guys seen this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=105180&postcount=13 . if multiple people are having this problem with the intel ipw2200 and a new upstream version that fixes the problem has been released (including me), wouldn't it be much better to include the new intel drivers in hoary despite it being so late in the development process?
[12:41] <Burgundavia> diego: does it also break things?
[12:42] <toresbe> hmmm
[12:42] <diego> Burgundavia: it's possible that it would. i have not tried it as it is not easily available (which i'm afraid will be a problem for many people using ipw2200 in their laptops)
[12:42] <toresbe> #ubuntu needs a bot to help with frequently asked questions
[12:42] <toresbe> like #debian has
[12:43] <toresbe> That would tremendously aide the usefulness of the channel
[12:43] <toresbe> aid*
[12:44] <diego> toresbe: i would not be satisfied by a bot's response right now if you're referring to me. if not, i have noticed that many of the questions of #ubuntu are answered at ubuntuguide.org
[12:44] <diego> Burgundavia: what do you suggest i do?
[12:44] <toresbe> diego: no, not at all
[12:45] <toresbe> just a general remark, it seriously needs a bot
[12:45] <Burgundavia> diego: I was just saying that it can't really be tested at this stage in the game
[12:45] <toresbe> Does anyone here have the opportunity to host one?
[12:46] <diego> Burgundavia: well they included the new nvidia drivers didn't they? how is this different?
[12:48] <Burgundavia> convince a dev, not me
[12:49] <diego> how do i know who is a dev?
[12:49] <daniels> mdz: ok, I know what the sync ranges thing is, and I think that by far the safest option (the other one being incredibly invasive, and I wouldn't have time to do it properly for hoary) is to just set use_sync_ranges="true" when upgrading from xfree86; people can just run dpkg-reconfigure to have it DTRT if they care
[12:50] <diego> daniels is a dev i think, but probably not a relevant one :)
[12:50] <diego> daniels: do you know who i should talk to about intel wifi drivers?
[12:51] <daniels> um, one of the kernel guys, but it was already decided for sure long ago that it wouldn't go in
[12:51] <mdz> diego: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7135
[12:51] <daniels> it's just too late in the game to risk breaking stuff; best sticking with what you know
[12:52] <diego> what i know drops my internet connection every couple hours
[12:52] <diego> that's pretty shitty if you ask me
[12:53] <mdz> diego: it's a tradeoff, and if you're on the worse end of it, that's unfortunate.  it'll be updated quite soon and you're free to upgrade at that time
[12:54] <diego> mdz: so you suggest i use the development release for 6 full months when what i want is something stable?
[12:54] <mdz> diego: I'm not offering advice; I'm explaining the situation to you.
[12:55] <Robot101> diego: you can use hoary and upgrade specific packages from breezy without much difficulty
[12:55] <Robot101> diego: list both in sources.list and write APT::Default-Release "hoary"; in /etc/apt/apt.conf
[12:56] <diego> is there a way that both the new and old intel drivers can be included, the current ones by default and the new ones with a modification to /etc/modules or something along those lines?
[12:56] <Robot101> diego: upgrade/dist-upgrade/install will use hoary only then, but you can install stuff from breezy with: apt-get -t breezy install whatever
[12:56] <mdz> and one of the _reasons_ I'm not doing that is because it would be off-topic for this channel *cough*
[12:57] <diego> Robot101: thanks, i suppose i may have to settle for that :(
[12:57] <Robot101> *whistles*
[01:00] <diego> and regarding the parallel versions i suggested above, is it possible?
[01:00] <Robot101> diego: mdz said it was off topic for here, but I don't know anyway. sounds unlikely.
[01:01] <diego> i thought mdz was referring to his not giving me advice because it was off-topic, sorry
[01:01] <mdz> both
[01:04] <diego> i suppose i'll leave now...this just strengthened my belief that hoary is not ready to be released. thanks for your time
[01:05] <robertj> can someone test something for me? Open up a Window, then open a folder in it so that it opens the new window and the old window is automatically closed. Add a new file to the parent, open the parent window, see if the parent has the new files
[01:06] <mdz> diego: thanks for your feedback, though it would be better received with a bit less antagonism.  have a good day.
[01:06] <toresbe> hoary-rc-install-amd64.iso: Permission denied
[01:07] <toresbe> using wget to uninett
[01:07] <toresbe> using firefox it works just fine! :|
[01:07] <toresbe> oh, wait, local issue, duh
[01:08] <toresbe> I'm sorry
[01:14] <infinity> mdz : Ping.
[01:15] <mdz> infinity: pong
[01:15] <infinity> mdz : You pinged 6 hours ago? :)
[01:15] <mdz> infinity: was probably regarding 8102
[01:16] <robertj> is there any point in emailing Mark politely about the window closing thing or is it a done deal?
[01:16] <mdz> infinity: read the few lines before the ping
[01:16] <mdz> robertj: polite emails are generally well-received
[01:17] <daniels> infinity: monash at 12:05?
[01:17] <seb128> robertj: you can comment on the bug about this too
[01:18] <infinity> daniels : Works for me.
[01:19] <robertj> smb128: I already did
[01:19] <robertj> has he seen the report
[01:19] <robertj> I know he gets emails, so...
[01:19] <seb128> k
[01:19] <daniels> infinity: rad.
[01:20] <tseng> jdub: azarah just posted our pet peeve inotify bug to the gamin list
[01:20] <infinity> mdz : Ahh.  Oops.
[01:20] <mdz> infinity: we need to determine as soon as possible whether the new version is busticated
[01:21] <daniels> mdz: is the nvidia-glx/l-r-m upgrade hook useful for hoary?
[01:21] <mdz> daniels: not for hoary
[01:21] <daniels> mdz: ok, cool
[01:21] <infinity> mdz : Do we know anyone other than the submitter with an HP inkjet printer?
[01:21] <mdz> infinity: yes, there are oodles of them around
[01:21] <mdz> I have one (works fine with the new hpijs)
[01:22] <infinity> mdz : Oh, see that's a pain.  It's supposed to fail for everyone, dangit. :)
[01:22] <daniels> the submitter's talking about an Epson printer
[01:22] <mdz> infinity: I suggest posting a call for testing to ubuntu-users ("do you use an hpijs-based driver? (here's how you check...) does your printer still work?"
[01:22] <mdz> oh, ok then
[01:23] <mdz> infinity: still, this was an unintentional change, and we should try to get some feedback to make sure we're not screwed
[01:23] <infinity> mdz : Err, yeah.  What daniels said.  hplip/hpijs shouldn't affect epson printers at all.. I hope?
[01:23] <mdz> it only changed about three days ago, and there could be lurking problems
[01:23] <daniels> it's probably worth digging 4ubuntu1 out of the archive to see if it works for him, or whether that's just a red herring
[01:23] <infinity> Last time I used a printer any smaller than a Volkswagen Beetle was a long time ago.
[01:34] <blueyed> I talked to sladen yesterday about this: powernow-k8 fails here with latest hoary, leaving the cpu down at 1Ghz.
[01:34] <blueyed> IMHO a show stopper.. I'd like helping debug this.
[01:34] <blueyed> kernel: powernow-k8: transition frequency failed
[01:35] <blueyed> and kernel: ignoring illegal change in lo freq table-2 to 0x2
[01:35] <sladen> blueyed: not technically a showstopper.  The system still runs.  It's to do with finding the frequency/voltage pairs, which IIRC are fetching from ACPI---hence probably down to a buggy ACPI DSDT
[01:36] <sladen> blueyed: can you file a bug, with the /proc/cpuinfo /proc/acpi/dsdt and the errors you sent me on IRC that you're seeing in /var/log/syslog
[01:36] <blueyed> ok, the system works, but (in fact) it does not run..
[01:36] <blueyed> ok.
[01:36] <sladen> blueyed: does not run?  You're using it at the moment, aren't you?
[01:37] <blueyed> yes, but with running I meant 1.8ghz.
[01:38] <blahrus> while we are talking about bugs, I think I have one
[01:38] <blahrus> just not sure how to locate it.
[01:42] <calc> hello
[01:42] <calc> seb128: around?
[01:42] <seb128> yep
[01:43] <calc> seb128: i saw the thing about menu-xdg today
[01:43] <seb128> what thing ?
[01:43] <calc> does the gnome menu not properly collapse menu entries?
[01:43] <seb128> the dup with the .local files ?
[01:43] <calc> yea the dup
[01:43] <calc> iirc Amaranth was having issues with that a while back but i thought he had resolved it
[01:43] <calc> wrt his editor
[01:43] <seb128> the menu works fine afaik
[01:44] <calc> but it seems to still be happening with menu-xdg
[01:44] <calc> if you have two menu entries named the same it shows as dups
[01:44] <calc> eg in /usr/share/applications or /var/lib/menu-xdg  and the users dir
[01:44] <seb128> but the menus are located on differents locations
[01:44] <seb128> an user is not authorized to have the same entry ?
[01:44] <seb128> or it should overwritte ?
[01:45] <calc> the user one should override the system one
[01:45] <calc> thats the whole reason eg Hidden= exists in .desktop
[01:46] <seb128> I'm going to sleep
[01:48] <seb128> calc: that works fine here with /usr/share/applications and ~/.local/share/applications/
[01:48] <seb128> the use one overwritte the system
[01:49] <Amaranth> yeah, gnome-menus 2.10.1 fixed that
[01:49] <lamont> mdz: 8606 verified :-(
[01:52] <lamont> seb128: you around?
[01:53] <lamont> mdz: do we need to know what package the .desktop file came from?  (the above is the only main-main collision)
[01:53] <lamont> 2 main-universe collisions
[01:53] <lamont> 5 uni-uni, 1 multi-multi
[01:53] <seb128> lamont: I don't understand the issue
[01:54] <mdz> lamont: I don't know, check the source
[01:54] <seb128> what are you doing ? .desktop collection for g-a-i ?
[01:55] <mdz> lamont: I think the .desktop file must be named after the package for g-a-i
[01:55] <mdz> seb128: yep
[01:55] <seb128> nice
[01:55] <mdz> lamont: abiword should be overridden to abiword-gnome I think
[01:55] <mdz> whichever one is seeded
[01:56] <mdz> lamont: we're going to need manual overrides; the seeds should provide hints in most cases
[01:56] <lamont> pl
[01:56] <lamont> ok
[01:56] <lamont> usr/share/applications/glade-2.desktop                      gnome/glade-gnome-2,universe/devel/glade-2
[01:56] <lamont> wonderful.
[01:57] <lamont> anyway, I'll make it package/file
[01:57] <elmo> have we done any automaied conflict checking, btw?
[01:57] <elmo> or is that what lamont's doing?
[01:57] <mdz> no, lamont is building an updated database for gnome-app-install
[01:57] <mdz> automated conflict checking is a breezy sort of thing
[01:57] <mdz> unless you have a handy conflict checker already written
[01:58] <lamont> mdz: uh... I'm grabbing the files we need to do that - not sure how to do that final step (of actually building the beast)
[01:58] <lamont> mdz: and we need all of main, or just desktop seed? (assuming all)
[01:59] <mdz> lamont: look in the g-a-i source package
[01:59] <mdz> lamont: main
[01:59] <lamont> is there some magic dpkg incantation to just extract the data.tar.gz to stdin from a .deb?
[01:59] <mdz> we don't want _all_ of main, but we'll use that as a starting point
[01:59] <mdz> dpkg --fsys-tarfile
[01:59] <lamont> danke
[01:59] <mdz> that goes to stdout, actually, but I imagine that's what you meant anyway ;-)
[02:00] <lamont> well, stdin for the otherside of the | yeah\
[02:00] <lamont> :-)
[02:02] <zul> evening
[02:08] <calc> Amaranth: ah i must not have restarted since i upgraded to 2.10.1
[02:08] <seb128> calc !
[02:08] <seb128> so the deal is
[02:08] <seb128> menu-xdg-X-Debian-Apps-Net-galeon.desktop for the ~/.local
[02:09] <seb128> X-Debian-Apps-Net-galeon.desktop for the /
[02:09] <seb128> by example
[02:09] <calc> so why doesn't it know to do that already since its in a subdir called menu-xdg under ~/.local ?
[02:09] <seb128> any idea of from where the "menu-xdg" comes ?
[02:09] <calc> or was that the part that was fixed in 2.10.1 ?
[02:09] <seb128> no, that's the current system
[02:09] <calc> subdirs under applications are for vendor dirs
[02:10] <calc> like with applications/kde, etc
[02:10] <seb128> right
[02:10] <calc> gnome just uses a flat dir for some reason
[02:10] <seb128> but is that wrong to prefix "menu-xdg" for the entry ?
[02:10] <seb128> the menu does that for the Legacy stuff too
[02:10] <calc> it might should work either way, not really sure
[02:11] <mdz> lamont: how come #8606 didn't show up in hoary-test?
[02:12] <calc> i don't recall if it mentions using prefixes for namespaces as well or not
[02:13] <seb128> "The name of the subdirectory should be added as prefix to the desktop-file id together with a dash character ("-") So given a <AppDir>  /foo/bar and desktop entry /foo/bar/booz/Hello.desktop the desktop entry would get a desktop-file id of booz-Hello.desktop"
[02:14] <calc> hmm
[02:14] <lamont> mdz: good question
[02:15] <seb128> calc: perhaps a spec update since ?
[02:16] <calc> seb128: maybe i did read it and just realized it didn't pertain to what i was doing
[02:16] <seb128> changing

[02:16] <seb128> to
[02:16] <calc> so gnome should be doing the same thing for both locations and ending up with the same filenames

[02:16] <lamont> mdz: will do another test build on an actuall DC buildd to be sure, dunno what's up.
[02:16] <seb128> for debian-menu.menu
[02:16] <seb128> seems to fix the issue
[02:17] <blueyed> sladen, https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8657 ( - accidently hit enter on the package input field)
[02:17] <calc> seb128: oh!
[02:17] <seb128> calc: no, because you <AppDir>/var/lib/menu-xdg/applications/menu-xdg</AppDir>
[02:17] <calc> yea i see that now
[02:17] <seb128> ie: the prefix gets dropped
[02:17] <seb128> and not for ~/.local/share/applications/menu-xdg/
[02:17] <calc> seb128: thanks for the help 8)
[02:17] <seb128> np
[02:18] <lamont> 2543 .desktop files in main
[02:18] <calc> i'll upload a new version to debian tonight
[02:18] <seb128> just curious, do you read the menu-xdg menu from bugzilla ?
[02:18] <lamont> modulo duplicates...
[02:18] <seb128> s/menu/bug/
[02:18] <seb128> or how have you found about it ?
[02:18] <calc> not yet
[02:18] <calc> i saw it on ubuntuforums (ubuntu-devel gateway) today at work
[02:18] <seb128> k
[02:19] <seb128> BTW thanks for the reminder :)
[02:19] <seb128> I had not yet looked on the bug 
[02:19] <calc> ok :)
[02:19] <seb128> the menu works fine now :)
[02:19] <calc> great
[02:36] <lamont> moof
[02:43] <Robot101> moofle
[02:43] <lamont> -MimeType=application/x-abiword;application/msword;application/rtf;text/abiword;text/plain;text/richtext;text/rtf;application/vnd.ms-word
[02:43] <lamont> +MimeType=application/x-abiword;application/msword;application/rtf;application/wordperfect5.1;application/x-applix-word;application/vnd.palm;application/x-palm-database;text/abiword;text/plain;text/richtext;text/rtf;text/vnd.wap.wml;applicatoin/vnd.ms-word
[02:44] <lamont> yep
[02:44] <lamont> mdz: this expands the list of desktop files from 33 to >2500, just btw...
[02:45] <mdz> lamont: <mdz> we don't want _all_ of main, but we'll use that as a starting point
[02:46] <lamont> well, all of main would be a starting point for what.. paring down, I guess.
[02:46] <infinity> mdz : Our mysql-server does contain the suspect bit of code in the init script.  More irritating, though, is that our mysql-server needs at least 4 security updates on top of that, so I guess I have my morning cut out for me.
[02:46] <mdz> yep
[02:47] <mdz> infinity: hmm, I vaguely recall seeing some mysql security bugs go by which were filed as "important", and thinking "I should remember to import those into Ubuntu bugzilla..."
[02:47] <jdub> lamont: i've got a bunch of the individual .desktop files we want to replace the groups with, so we can throw those in
[02:47] <jdub> lamont: i can also give you the script i've already done
[02:47] <lamont> jdub: want to take a gander at people.u.c/~lamont/List and see what we want to prune?
[02:47] <infinity> mdz : Yes, well.  Consider them mentally imported now.  I'll patch for hoary and warty today, and ping pitti with the warty sources.
[02:47] <lamont> scriptage would be nice
[02:48] <jdub> lamont: it reads the files in a similar manner to the gnome menu
[02:48] <mdz> infinity: if you give me bug numbers, I'll bring them in so that we can track there
[02:49] <lamont> I like the way the detailed description on the package provides no additional information beyond the short description or package name, other than to assert that it's "pretty"
[02:49] <jdub> lamont: and uses X-AppInstall-Package to define the package name
[02:49] <infinity> mdz : The most recent upload has no bug #, but it's CAN-2004-0957... The older upload fixed #299029, #299031, #299065.
[02:50] <jdub> lamont: hrm, ok, give me a few minutes, my script already tags the desktop files and so on; just have to do some bizdev stuff here atm
[02:50] <mdz> infinity: they're all already in bugzilla
[02:50] <lamont> jdub: no hurry - I have all night :-)
[02:50] <jdub> i'll do a mirror update in the mean time
[02:51] <infinity> mdz : I searched on "mysql" and got nothing back except the init script bug, so assumed they weren't.  Hrm.
[02:52] <mdz> infinity: entering "deb<number>" anyplace bugzilla accepts a bug ID should work
[02:53] <mdz> looks like pitti fixed it in Warty and closed it; perhaps he believed it didn't affect Hoary?
[02:54] <mdz> oh, he wrote that he fixed Hoary too
[02:54] <infinity> mdz : Yeah, he fixed hoary too.  I misread his changelog.
[02:54] <infinity> mdz : So, we only need the one update.
[02:54] <infinity> mdz : That's a relief.
[02:54] <mdz> CAN-2004-0957 isn't mentioned there though
[02:54] <mdz> ok
[02:54] <mdz> infinity: be sure to notify pitti re: Warty
[02:55] <infinity> mdz : I originally read his "taken from 4.0.23-4" in the changelog to mean he didn't have any patches beyond that, but that was just for a subset of the update.
[02:55] <infinity> And, yeah, I'll notify him about the warty update.
[02:55] <infinity> I have a PHP update queued for him too, so we have a date later. :)
[02:55] <infinity> (PHP security hole?... NEVER..)
[02:57] <robertj> (stupid legacy box)
[03:00] <elmo> woo!
[03:00] <elmo> back to clean uninstallable/out-of-date
[03:01] <elmo> can we stay there now, pls? :p
[03:11] <elmo> is HIGHPTE a good thing?
[03:16] <robertj> HIGHPTE?
[03:16] <elmo> in kernel config
[03:23] <infinity> elmo : It sounds like a good thing.  And, in practice, it's not provne to be a bad thing (I've used it plenty)
[03:23] <elmo> cool
[03:23] <infinity> It touches a whopping three tiny bits of mm-related code, doing pretty much exactly as the help text says.
[03:23] <infinity> Which looks pretty harmless to me. :)
[03:43] <lamont> mdz: 8606 - pilot error here...
[03:44] <mdz> lamont: awfully suspicious, eh?
[03:46] <lamont> mdz: well, there were some oddities on the machine that I picked because (a) it was not in the DC, and (b) has no network access.
[03:46] <mdz> lamont: but it failed in exactly the same way?
[03:46] <lamont> yes
[03:47] <lamont> note that it was also !i386
[03:53] <robitaille> lamont,  I have to ask: what is a pilot error?
[03:53] <CarlK> http://cdimage.ubuntulinux.org/daily/current/MD5SUMS - has this really changed about 5 times in the last 2 hours?
[03:54] <CarlK> robitaille - the person operating the computer is like a pilot flying a plane
[03:55] <CarlK> robitaille - so it is a way of saying "did you make a mistake?" 
[03:56] <mdz> CarlK: it has changed exactly once in the past 24 hours
[03:57] <CarlK> mdz... something fishy is going on...
[03:57] <robitaille> CarlK,  thanks.  so it's like a pebkac :)
[03:57] <lamont> robitaille: the cause of many plane crashes
[03:57] <CarlK> robitaille - if I knew what a pebkac was 
[03:58] <robitaille> CarlK,  "Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair"...an old saying
[04:00] <CarlK> yep
[04:01] <CarlK> in mechanics talk: Nut behind the wheel
[04:12] <bluefoxicy> dhcp took eternity to set up right
[04:12] <bluefoxicy> :(
[04:18] <lamont> mdz: verified that it does not try to talk on the network.
[04:19] <lamont> robitaille: pebkac.  definitely
[04:20] <lamont> bluefoxicy: huh?  it's not exactly rocket science...
[04:20] <lamont> dhcp3 package, or some wonky embedded dhcp on some commodity gateway box?
[04:22] <mdz> ->#ubuntu, please
[04:22] <lamont> oops. sorry
[04:32] <bluefoxicy> lamont:  install, then hack with vim until it shuts up about noth aving ethX configured or such, and the man page doesn't say anything that indicates that I can do anything but figure out the subnet on i.e. eth0 (from the ISP)
[04:32] <bluefoxicy> lamont:  I was trying to set a mac user up
[04:32] <bluefoxicy> so you know. . . . 
[04:59] <OddAbe19> damn basket ball cancelling csi miami
[04:59] <OddAbe19> it's ok though
[04:59] <OddAbe19> csi miami sucks
[04:59] <OddAbe19> whoops
[04:59] <OddAbe19> wrong channel
[05:00] <OddAbe19> sorry guys
[05:01] <OddAbe19> didn't mean ti
[05:01] <OddAbe19> too drunka
[05:43] <jdub> grr
[05:43] <jdub> has the whole website been losing things, not just the wiki?
[05:44] <fabbione> morning
[05:45] <elmo> jdub: yes
[05:45] <jdub> elmo: hrm.
[05:45] <jdub> elmo: ta.
[05:46] <Lathiat> does it run on plone/zope?
[05:46] <elmo> yes
[05:47] <Lathiat> mmm, ucc had some annoying issues with that
[05:47] <Lathiat> restarted zope and it decided to trash the entire database
[05:49] <fabbione> humpf
[05:49] <fabbione> lamont: ping?
[05:51] <fabbione> does anybody remember what triggered the  trying to overwrite `/usr/share/info/dir.old.gz', which is also in package texinfo problem?
[05:51] <elmo> oh, god, it's dpkg stupidity
[05:51] <elmo> dpkg install-info vs. gnu install-info
[05:52] <elmo> dpkg changed options, and it broke old automake scripts
[05:52] <elmo> easiest solution is to just rm -f the file in debian/rules build - alternately, update all the autocrap
[05:52] <fabbione> elmo: hmm ok.. i think something in the archive still has that bug
[05:52] <fabbione> or it has been retriggered somehow
[05:53] <elmo> #213524 has details, IIRC
[05:53] <fabbione> i have noticed the problem on only sparc and only compiling gcc-4.0
[05:53] <elmo> fabbione: hmm, that's strange
[05:53] <fabbione> but it might be as well in our archive in one hidden package
[05:53] <elmo> hmm, right, let me go update some contents
[05:54] <fabbione> elmo: thanks
[05:54] <lamont> universe/eb-doc on all architectures
[05:54] <blahrus> Mithrandir: you around?
[05:54] <lamont> amd64: base/findutils,universe/sound/speech-dispatcher,universe/libdevel/libmpfr-dev,universe/doc/eb-doc
[05:55] <lamont> bummer about findutils. :-(
[05:56] <lamont> that was as of Jan 28 03:47ish, London
[06:20] <blahrus> anyone around?
[06:21] <fabbione> good night lamont
[06:23] <jsgotangco> greetings
[06:23] <blahrus> hey jsgotangco 
[06:25] <jsgotangco> hi
[06:26] <blahrus> you know much about ubuntu?
[06:26] <blahrus> might be dumb question in this chan
[06:26] <jsgotangco> ill try to answer as i can
[06:27] <blahrus> mp3 play, test file plays the testsound under ubuntu device manger
[06:27] <blahrus> nothing comes out.
[06:27] <jsgotangco> hmmm i havent tried that at all maybe its the mixer settings?
[06:28] <blahrus> nothing is mute vol is up
[06:29] <blahrus> i am just stuck, and I have given up trying to get help in ubuntu chan, and it almost seems like a bug in hoary
[06:29] <jsgotangco> let me try that out
[06:45] <fabbione> lamont: actually the universe/libdevel/libmpfr-dev is in main
[06:45] <fabbione> elmo: ^
[06:45] <fabbione> so that would match the failure i get here
[06:45] <elmo> the contents files are massively out of date
[06:45] <elmo> if that's what you mean
[06:46] <elmo> I'm working on it - but they have to be generated out of line with the rest of cron.daily, it's not entirely trivial
[06:46] <fabbione> elmo: yeah i know that they are outdated
[06:46] <fabbione> i was just answering back to lamont :)
[06:46] <elmo> ok
[06:46] <fabbione> elmo: he has that package in universe
[06:46] <fabbione> but in reality it is in main
[06:46] <fabbione> and gcc-4.0 build-dep on it somehow 
[06:46] <fabbione> -> FTBFS
[06:47] <fabbione> elmo: thanks a lot.. i am going to fix it right away
[06:47] <fabbione> well let see if there are other packages too that needs the same love
[06:47] <fabbione> so i can crash them all at once
[06:54] <toresbe> fam broken in newest RC?
[06:54] <Treenaks> fam?
[06:55] <fabbione> we don't use fam
[06:55] <toresbe> oh
[06:55] <toresbe> ok
[06:55] <toresbe> ah, now it works
[06:56] <toresbe> I just needed libgamin-dev instead 
[06:58] <toresbe> bah, but I do lack vgrabbj
[06:58] <fabbione> elmo: how long does it take to build the Contents usually?
[06:59] <elmo> I don't know
[06:59] <elmo> they've been disabled since pre-warty release
[07:00] <elmo> I'm running now, but it's cold-cache
[07:00] <fabbione> elmo: ok.. i just noticed that there is always (or almost) 2 hours (between 01:00 UTC and 03:00 UTC) in which there are no uploads. Perhaps we could stop cron.daily during these 2 hours (once a week or so) to regenerate the Contents?
[07:00] <elmo> no, I'm just moving them out-of-line
[07:01] <elmo> so they don't affect cron.daily at all
[07:01] <fabbione> ok
[07:01] <fabbione> elmo: btw.. rebuilding that libmpfr seems to be enough
[07:01] <fabbione> there is no dir.old.gz anymore
[07:02] <fabbione> and i didn't relibcrappize the package
[07:02] <elmo> hmm
[07:03] <fabbione> drwxr-xr-x root/root         0 2005-04-05 06:58:28 ./usr/share/info/
[07:03] <fabbione> -rw-r--r-- root/root     28390 2005-04-05 06:58:26 ./usr/share/info/mpfr.info.gz
[07:03] <fabbione> drwxr-xr-x root/root         0 2005-04-05 06:58:27 ./usr/share/doc/
[07:03] <fabbione> it's strange.. but it seems to make the trick
[07:06] <fabbione> does it make any sence to you?
[07:08] <elmo> does it automake-ize during build?
[07:08] <elmo> but, no basically it doesn't make any sense to me
[07:10] <fabbione> no it doen't
[07:10] <elmo> oh, maybe scott fixed dpkg
[07:10] <fabbione> ehhehe
[07:10] <elmo> yah, looks like he did
[07:10] <elmo> shiri 6:10 ~ % install-info --version > /dev/null
[07:10] <elmo> shiri 6:10 ~ %
[07:11] <fabbione> elmo: cool.. if you have a list of packages with that stuff, i can prepare the uploads today
[07:11] <fabbione> s/if/when
[07:13] <elmo> hmm, no, wait
[07:14] <elmo> 214769 says old automake expects version on stderr
[07:14] <SuperL4g> tseng: you alive at this hour?
[07:14] <fabbione> i haven't uploaded yet
[07:15] <elmo>         @if (install-info --version && \
[07:15] <elmo>              install-info --version | grep -i -v debian) >/dev/null 2>&1; then           list='$(INFO_DEPS)'; \
[07:15] <elmo> okay, colour me stupid - how does that depend on it being on stderr?
[07:16] <fabbione> no idea really... i really don't get along with autocrap
[07:20] <infinity> It's an inverted match.  It's also a fluke that it worked before.
[07:24] <elmo> infinity: how do you mean?
[07:28] <HiddenWolf> ugh, the new update-notifier icon is ugly as hell. What is it supposed to be?
[07:28] <mdz> lamont: you get an email if the cloop builds fail, right?
[07:31] <fabbione> mdz: morning.. he went to sleep already
[07:31] <mdz> he reads scrollback
[07:31] <mdz> has daniels returned?
[07:31] <fabbione> haven't seen him yet
[07:32] <fabbione> is there something that needs urgent attention?
[07:33] <moquist_> elmo: got a minute?
[07:33] <mdz> today (his local today) is the deadline for xorg debconf changes, and he has some pending
[07:33] <fabbione> ah ok
[07:34] <infinity> mdz : He's in town, dropping of some rental application forms, then on a train/bus back home to finish up the xorg upload.
[07:34] <elmo> moquist_: yah
[07:34] <fabbione> elmo: should i hold up the upload?
[07:35] <infinity> mdz : At least, that was what I was told to say if you asked about him.  (We met up for lunch to fill out and sign the aforementioned forms)
[07:35] <mdz> infinity: yep, that's what he said he was doing 4.5 hours ago; does he have an ETA?
[07:35] <elmo> fabbione: I don't know, sorry - I'm far too tired to look at it coherently
[07:36] <fabbione> elmo: ok, don't worry
[07:36] <elmo> but FWIW, I don't think uploading it while we don't understand why it failed last time is a good idea
[07:36] <infinity> mdz : Well, we parted ways about 12:30, and it's 3:30 now... Given how far from civilisation he lives, I'd say even under a worst case scenario, he should be home pretty soonish.
[07:36] <fabbione> elmo: yes i fully understand that..
[07:37] <fabbione> elmo: just for curiosity... can you confirm that the dir.old.gz is in libmpfr-dev on all arches?
[07:37] <fabbione> elmo: i know i386/sparc do
[07:38] <elmo> only sparc, according to ftp-master?
[07:38] <fabbione> hmm
[07:39] <fabbione> perhpas sparc did build with an old version of dpkg
[07:39] <elmo> should be in the log?
[07:39] <elmo> if you have it
[07:39] <fabbione> that's what i am checking
[07:40] <fabbione> i don't have so old logs.. but i can more or less see it by upload dates
[07:41] <infinity> mdz : I suppose one could figure another 30-60 mins for food at some point in there.  Do you want me to call and ask for an ETA, or are you just curious if he's going back to work this afternoon (which he said he would be, all night if he had to)
[07:41] <infinity> pitti : I have that php4 upload for you, and I also have a mysql update.  Aren't you lucky?
[07:41] <pitti> Hi folks
[07:41] <fabbione> infinity: if you can call him, it would be very nice from you
[07:41] <fabbione> morning pitti
[07:42] <pitti> infinity: cool :-)
[07:42] <infinity> Alright, let me wander outside with my phone.  I'm in a "quiet area" in a library.
[07:42] <infinity> BRB.
[07:43] <mdz> infinity: I wanted to review the changes with him before upload, and I am going to sleep soon.  fabbione can help with the review though
[07:43] <mdz> night all
[07:43] <fabbione> mdz: do you have any objections if i upload mpfr? it is just a plain rebuild to get rid of a dir.old.gz on sparc
[07:44] <fabbione> elmo: i can see that sparc was just catching up during the time the upload was done
[07:44] <fabbione> elmo: so it was just built with an old version of dpkg
[07:44] <fabbione> on the otherside i have the feeling we are losing the concept of verioned build-dep here
[07:45] <pitti> night mdz
[07:45] <pitti> infinity: can you please send me debdiffs/put them somewhere?
[07:46] <fabbione> elmo: can you be so kind to put the Contents-sparc.gz somewhere i can grab it?
[07:46] <fabbione> elmo: just to see if there are more packages with that problem
[07:46] <fabbione> elmo: since it was the only arch lagging
[07:46] <elmo> it's still generating
[07:47] <fabbione> ok thanks
[07:47] <elmo> (I told you it was slow :p)
[07:47] <fabbione> elmo: i do really trust you :)
[07:48] <fabbione> jdub: ^^ same question as for mdz?
[07:48] <infinity> mdz : If you're sleeping soon, you're probably out of luck.  Sounds like he's stuck in town.... Said he'll be home between 6 and 7, and doing the upload shortly thereafter.
[07:49] <infinity> fabbione : That's around 3.5 hours from now.  Will you be around to do the review?
[07:49] <fabbione> infinity: don't worry... i will be around
[07:49] <fabbione> infinity: yes
[07:49] <infinity> pitti : Working on it.
[07:49] <fabbione> at least for the next 10 hours
[07:50] <infinity> pitti : Still need to do test build and make sure nothing broke hideously.
[07:50] <infinity> s/build/builds/
[08:06] <jdub> fabbione: sure, approved
[08:07] <fabbione> jdub: thanks, but too late anyway ;)
[08:07] <fabbione> jdub: you know in italy silence is a sign of consensum :P
[08:07] <jdub> ;-)
[08:07] <fabbione> jdub: did you import the gamin fix in Debian?
[08:08] <jdub> not yet, will do next week probably
[08:08] <jdub> this week is completely doomed
[08:08] <jdub> actually, i expect next week to be as well
[08:08] <jdub> but we'll see ;)
[08:08] <fabbione> jdub: remember of the freeze
[08:09] <fabbione> no news from upstream?
[08:09] <pitti> fabbione: I did not see any reply in the gnome bts
[08:09] <jdub> haven't seen DV yet today
[08:10] <fabbione> pitti: ok
[08:10] <jdub> i'll encourage him to look when he's around
[08:10] <fabbione> jdub: s/encourage/lart/
[08:10] <jdub> heh
[08:10] <jdub> i'll be the diplomatic envoy of your flamage ;)
[08:11] <fabbione> jdub: nah i am just kidding...
[08:11] <fabbione> he might have seen my blogs anyway
[08:12] <dholbach> good morning!
[08:12] <jdub> hey dholbach 
[08:12] <fabbione> dholbach morning 
[08:12] <dholbach> hey you two!
[08:12] <dholbach> how are you?
[08:13] <fabbione> injecting coffee in my blood stream
[08:14] <dholbach> fabbione: me too, will later visit mvo and work from his place
[08:14] <pitti> Hi dholbach 
[08:14] <dholbach> hey pitti
[08:15] <fabbione> dholbach: heheh nice
[08:15] <fabbione> mvo is a very cool guy
[08:15] <fabbione> dholbach: when we met a long time ago we were sharing the same room
[08:15] <fabbione> and since he has long hair
[08:15] <fabbione> i used to call him Miss Vogt ;)
[08:16] <dholbach> hahahaha :-)
[08:16] <fabbione> he for sure couldn't be the man in our relationship
[08:16] <dholbach> i'll "remind" him later ;-)
[08:17] <fabbione> ehehe
[08:29] <pitti> dholbach: grip has a vuln (CAN-2005-0706) which is fixed in sid; do you want to merge the fix? (or delegate the task :-) )
[08:29] <pitti> dholbach: grip has ubuntu changes, so we can't sync
[08:29] <dholbach> pitti: will do myself
[08:30] <pitti> dholbach: just take the debdiff between 3.2.0-3 and -4 :-)
[08:30] <fabbione> pitti: i am going to add the 2nd patch for the ext3 jdb race condition. did you hear anything from Herbert?
[08:31] <fabbione> pitti: also
[08:31] <fabbione>   * [SECURITY]  Fix possible futex mmap_sem deadlock:
[08:31] <pitti> fabbione: no, not yet
[08:31] <fabbione>     - Add patch stolen-from-head_futex.dpatch.
[08:31] <fabbione>     (CAN-2005-0937)
[08:31] <dholbach> pitti: CAN-2005-0706?
[08:31] <fabbione> a CAN has been assigned
[08:31] <dholbach> pitti: dredg already applied the patch
[08:31] <pitti> fabbione: I saw, this CAN is already in my kernelsec.txt :-)
[08:31] <pitti> dholbach: oh, cool
[08:32] <dholbach> pitti: MOTU power! ;-)
[08:32] <pitti> dholbach: well, my can review script is still running...
[08:32] <fabbione> pitti: yes, it was missing from our changelogs
[08:32] <dholbach> pitti: thanks for noticing :-)
[08:32] <pitti> dholbach: rookery mirror was outdated, so there will be many changes today; sorry for the noise :)
[08:32] <dholbach> pitti: don't worry, thanks for doing the job
[08:42] <fabbione> jdub: ping?
[08:44] <jdub> fabbione: pong
[08:45] <fabbione> jdub: i might need to upload a new kernel for some important fixes today, can i have your blessing?
[08:45] <jdub> fabbione: not with that information alone ;)
[08:46] <pitti> dholbach: ah, now ubuntu-cve.html has grip, too :-)
[08:46] <fabbione> jdub: it's to fix 2 race conditions in ext3/jdb that can cause serious data corruption
[08:46] <jdub> fabbione: ok, that sounds good :)
[08:47] <fabbione> jdub: + some hppa love, that is strictly isolated to hppa
[08:47] <fabbione> jdub: so we don't really care if it is there or not
[08:52] <dholbach> pitti: rock :-)
[08:56] <infinity> Well, whattayaknow.  I didn't break it.
[08:59] <infinity> pitti : php4 update is at http://lucifer.0c3.net/~adconrad/php4-warty/ for your perusal.  A debdiff is generated there between 7.6 and 7.7, if you're not in the mood to download the source package.
[09:01] <infinity> pitti : That patch eliminates pretty much every infinite loop upstream could find in image.c, not just the two specific ones hilighted by the two CANs, hence the size.
[09:01] <infinity> pitti : It wasn't well written to start with. ;)
[09:03] <fabbione> isn't that *WEIRD* for php?
[09:06] <Treenaks> fabbione: what? php is badly written? you must be kidding!
[09:06] <fabbione> i am :)
[09:06] <fabbione> it's the best code where to train your security skills
[09:06] <Gagatan> fabbione: troll
[09:06] <fabbione> everything has a reason to exist in this world
[09:07] <pitti> infinity: I'm taking a look at it soon, I'm still at breakfast
[09:08] <fabbione> pitti: ehehe
[09:08] <fabbione> Gagatan: i understand the truth can hurt.. but me a troll?
[09:08] <fabbione> there is an abyss ....
[09:09] <fabbione> 3216791 Apr  4 04:45 heimdal_0.6.3-7ubuntu1.diff.gz
[09:09] <fabbione> 3321408 Oct 25 18:30 heimdal_0.6.3.orig.tar.gz
[09:09] <fabbione> i wonder where the real orig is :)
[09:09] <Gagatan> fabbione: heh.. 1st of April I put out a university-wide notice that we would ban use of PHP due to many security-issues the last years
[09:10] <aj> Gagatan: and people thought you were joking? :)
[09:10] <fabbione> Gagatan: i wouldn't consider that a 1st Apr fool joke
[09:10] <fabbione> it's sad truth
[09:10] <Gagatan> fabbione: yeah.. many wanted it to be true.. but not yet I'm afraid
[09:11] <Gagatan> aj: we got a few long faces at least :) 
[09:20] <dholbach> morning d3vic3 
[09:20] <d3vic3> hey d3vic3 
[09:20] <d3vic3> oops 
[09:20] <d3vic3> morning dholbach 
[09:20] <pitti> Hi d3vic3 
[09:20] <d3vic3> hey pitti 
[09:28] <pitti> Moin doko
[09:30] <dholbach> brb
[09:31] <fabbione> pitti: the 3rd patch doesn't even apply clean *shrug*
[09:32] <jdub> Riddell: dude, why are we supporting noatun, kaffeine and juk?
[09:32] <doko> morning all
[09:33] <jdub> Riddell: and amarok
[09:34] <bob2> isn't noatun abandonded?
[09:37] <thom> jdub: are we gonna update /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/ or point browsers somewhere else?
[09:38] <jdub> thom: update, as soon as i get artwork from henrik
[09:38] <jdub> thom: just going to put links to ubuntu resources, et.
[09:41] <fabbione> pitti: we are lucky. it was only one very simple hunk that was rejected
[09:41] <thom> jdub: cool
[09:41] <pitti> fabbione: other code, or just whitespace foo?
[09:42] <fabbione> pitti: on a line that was introduced in 2.6.11 that 2.6.10 don't have
[09:42] <fabbione> nothing difficult
[09:43] <fabbione> -               __journal_unfile_buffer(jh);
[09:43] <fabbione>                 drop_reserve = 1;
[09:43] <fabbione> the drop_reserve has been introduced in 2.6.11
[09:43] <fabbione> but noone of the patch uses that
[09:43] <fabbione> so it is ok to just remove the __journal_unfile_buffer(jh); from the code
[09:50] <fabbione> hey Simira 
[09:50] <Simira> morning, fabbione
[10:02] <desrt> fabbione; gamin is sitll broken :(
[10:03] <fabbione> desrt: did you logout, check that there are no gam_server running and login again?
[10:03] <desrt> i killall'd gam_server gnome-vfs-daemon and nautilus
[10:04] <fabbione> desrt: no, that's not enough afaik
[10:04] <fabbione> you need to logout
[10:04] <desrt> hm.
[10:04] <desrt> what else needs to die?
[10:04] <fabbione> be sure that nothing is runing
[10:04] <fabbione> and login again
[10:04] <fabbione> desrt: it's not a question of what is running
[10:04] <fabbione> gam_server resurrects itself, and i am not 100% sure if it reloads the new one or not
[10:05] <dholbach> see you guys later
[10:05] <desrt> if you kill gam_server then you remove the last instance to the inode of the old server
[10:05] <desrt> and the filesystem removes it from the disk at that instant
[10:05] <desrt> s/instance/reference/
[10:06] <fabbione> desrt: well it works here and on other machines with the way in which we did it
[10:06] <desrt> i'll logout/in tho.  might work (but probably will be another day or so before i see the problem again)
[10:06] <fabbione> so please try that way
[10:06] <desrt> nautilus usually has to be running for a while before the bug crops up
[10:06] <desrt> brb
[10:06] <fabbione> otherwise just use the loop in the bug
[10:08] <desrt> there's a bug?
[10:08] <desrt> :)
[10:08] <fabbione> 7078
[10:08] <desrt> spiffy
[10:17] <desrt> fabbione; test loop runs fine.  even when i take the sleeps out.
[10:17] <desrt> i'll let you know if i get it again.  it seems to usually happen when firefox is saving
[10:17] <fabbione> desrt: mostlikely you are hitting problem 1)
[10:17] <fabbione> the missing Add/remove events
[10:18] <fabbione> as explained that's not fixed
[10:18] <desrt> ah
[10:18] <desrt> is that a kernel problem or what?
[10:18] <fabbione> nope.. the kernel is fine
[10:18] <fabbione> it's gamin that loses signals
[10:18] <fabbione> when the kernel sends a notification to gamin
[10:19] <fabbione> it does that with a SIG33
[10:19] <fabbione> gamin has problems to handle signals
[10:19] <desrt> inotify is just a character device though, right?
[10:19] <fabbione> it's also written in gamin code...
[10:19] <fabbione> desrt: i didn't even bother to attempt to fix inotify backend for gamin
[10:19] <desrt> oh
[10:19] <fabbione> since inotify is disabled by default on our kernel
[10:20] <desrt> i've used dnofiy from a program before.. it was... exciting
[10:20] <fabbione> you need to enable it specifically
[10:20] <desrt> anyway.  patch does seem to help a lot
[10:20] <desrt> and if the other problem is out of your hands, then not much you can do
[10:20] <desrt> thanks :)
[10:20] <fabbione> the other problems are gnome/gamin
[10:20] <fabbione> it's a design issue that i can't fix in a patch :)
[10:22] <desrt> anything can be fixed if the patch is large enough :)
[10:22] <fabbione> desrt: not if the patch needs to touch several projects :)
[10:23] <desrt> then you just have to write a patch against the filesystem on a certain fileserver's harddrive
[10:23] <fabbione> ehhe
[10:23] <desrt> anyway.  i ought to get to bed now.  thanks again :)
[10:23] <fabbione> no problem
[10:26] <astharot> bonjour
[10:27] <pitti> thom: do you know about the homograph attack status in epiphany? or is this a seb128 question?
[10:27] <zerokarmaleft> fabbione, what's the issue with the inotify backend for gamin?
[10:29] <fabbione> pitti: the 3rd patch doesn't change the abi. the function is used only internally in the jbd module
[10:29] <fabbione> zerokarmaleft: the same problems as the dnotify. signalling is broken
[10:29] <pitti> fabbione: so much the better :-) but even if it was public, it shouldn't break backwards compatibility, should it?
[10:29] <fabbione> pitti: in theory no
[10:31] <pitti> brb
[10:33] <fabbione> is the wiki login fixed? or is it still borked?
[10:34] <fabbione> hi daniels 
[10:34] <daniels> hi fabbione
[10:35] <fabbione> daniels: we need to look at xorg -10
[10:35] <fabbione> can you put the interdiff somewhere i can look it up+
[10:35] <fabbione> ?
[10:35] <daniels> yeah, I'll get that up for you in a sec
[10:35] <fabbione> daniels: cool
[10:35] <fabbione> hi Md
[10:35] <daniels> i need to quickly sort something out with my little sister though, i'll be back in about 15min
[10:35] <fabbione> daniels: ok
[10:35] <Md> I'm looking for somebody related to the ubuntu listserver (rince.africaninspace.com), I see that since about a week it's not able anymore to deliver mail to linux.it users
[10:36] <fabbione> Md: i think jdub is in charge of it
[10:36] <Md> let's try...
[10:36] <fabbione> jdub: ?
[10:39] <fabbione> Md: he is probably having dinner at this time
[10:39] <pitti> Morning seb128 
[10:40] <seb128> hi
[10:40] <astharot> but why does canonical like africa? :P
[10:40] <mvo> hey seb128 
[10:41] <mpt> Aha!
[10:41] <pitti> astharot: because sabdfl comes from South Africa
[10:41] <mpt> Now I understand
[10:41] <mpt> The Nautilus change happened on April 1
[10:42] <astharot> ok... now a lot of things are explained, thanks pitti ;)
[10:42] <thom> pitti: epiphany -> seb
[10:43] <pitti> thom: ok
[10:43] <pitti> thom: btw, do you know how to teach jigdo-file not to ask for the mirror?
[10:43] <thom> pitti: once it asks once it remembers
[10:43] <thom> or it has done here
[10:44] <pitti> thom: hmm, not for me...
[10:44] <thom> 9:44 ~/packages/httpd-2.1.2% grep Mirror ~/.jigdo-lite
[10:44] <thom> debianMirror='http://192.168.1.13/no-name-yet/'
[10:44] <seb128> what ? 
[10:44] <thom> (yes, my mirror is OLD SKOOL)
[10:45] <pitti> seb128: do you know how/whether the IDN homograph attacks were handled in epiphany?
[10:46] <seb128> pitti: relaying on firefox beeing fixed IIRC
[10:46] <seb128> since it uses firefox
[10:46] <pitti> seb128: so epy even uses firefox's address bar?
[10:46] <seb128> hum
  mpt: without a mozilla / firefox patch, all we can do is disable IDN completely. that won't do. with the patch, we  same as firefox  will show punycode instead of IDN
[10:47] <seb128> I've that in my logs
[10:47] <mpt> Which isn't quite true
[10:47] <pitti> seb128: okay, fine
[10:47] <mpt> It's not all they could do
[10:48] <mpt> but they don't have the developer-muscle to do more
[10:48] <seb128> mpt: you have not replied to chpe ...
[10:48] <pitti> seb128: so epy probably uses the ffox functions for converting the text of the nav bar
[10:48] <mpt> seb128: replied where?
[10:48] <seb128> chpe was not speaking to you ?
[10:48] <mpt> seb128: mpt is me, but I'm not in #epiphany right now
[10:49] <seb128> mar 10 13:46:03 <mpt>   chpe: Well, that's a good start
[10:49] <seb128> that's not now
[10:49] <mpt> right
[10:49] <mpt> I don't have my logs handy, so I can't remember whether or why I did or did not respond further :-)
[10:50] <seb128> so don't blame them now behind, you didn't do that on the chan :p
[10:52] <mpt> I'm not blaming them, I know very well they don't have enough developers to do lots of cool stuff
[11:10] <mpt> seb128: Is bug 8548 a joke? It looks like one, but I'm not sure ... Maybe sabdfl's sense of humor is too subtle for me
[11:11] <seb128> mpt: no, that's due to http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8516
[11:12] <mpt> seb128: Yes, I'm familiar with 8516
[11:12] <mpt> unfortunately)
[11:18] <Craww> http://www.whitehacker.com
[11:21] <fabbione> daniels: ?
[11:21] <daniels> fabbione: just uploading the sources to chinstrap
[11:21] <fabbione> ok
[11:21] <rburton> daniels: so i've just read the "changes in x.org head since 6.8.0" page, and am wondering how patched hoary x.org is
[11:22] <daniels> rburton: pretty patched
[11:22] <daniels> rburton: what specifically? :)
[11:22] <rburton> daniels: MMX in render, and DMA in radeon RENDER
[11:22] <daniels> rburton: we have everything from the ati, nvidia and i810 drivers, and also multiseat support
[11:22] <daniels> we don't have mmx in render, or dma in radeon render
[11:22] <daniels> too invasive :\
[11:22] <rburton> darn
[11:22] <rburton> that MMX patch was kick-arse
[11:22] <daniels> yeah
[11:23] <daniels> i'd love both for my own desktop
[11:23] <rburton> if you ever make a custom x.org deb which is super-patched, i'll "test" a copy ;)
[11:23] <snaggen> daniels, It seems like the 74xx nvidia modules are having some freezes in the render accel code... 
[11:24] <daniels> snaggen: yeah
[11:24] <daniels> rburton: heh, I might just do that
[11:24] <snaggen> Since the upgrade I've had some random freezes, and on nvforum there seems like other people are having the to.
[11:24] <daniels> mallum: hey dude!
[11:24] <mallum> hey daniels :)
[11:24] <snaggen> daniels, and todays upgrade didn't solve the issue :-(
[11:25] <daniels> snaggen: it gives better general support though (working basic 2D/3D everywhere, no lockups when not using RenderAccel), sooo ...
[11:26] <doko> is there a way to get statistics about fuzzy/translated/untranslated strings in a .po files?
[11:27] <snaggen> OK. But it might be hard to find out this problem... but it is default off?
[11:27] <daniels> snaggen: yeah
[11:32] <infinity> thom : ping.
[11:34] <thom> infinity: ack
[11:35] <infinity> thom : pitti and I have been talking.  Are you frightened?
[11:35] <thom> infinity: mozilla/firefox warty stuffs?
[11:35] <thom> (yes)
[11:35] <infinity> thom : Given the laundry list of outstanding mozilla-* security issues, do you feel any urge to share the load?
[11:36] <infinity> thom : Do you have a list of collected patches that need backporting and such?
[11:36] <infinity> thom : And any progress thus far?
[11:36] <thom> infinity: (the yes was to "are you frightened")
[11:37] <thom> infinity: yes, yes, not really
[11:37] <thom> (in order)
[11:37] <infinity> Alright, care to expand on the second "yes"?
[11:37] <thom> sure, let me dig the list out
[11:50] <fabbione> daniels: still uploading?
[11:51] <daniels> fabbione: oh sorry, forgot to mention it -- chinstrap:~daniels
[11:52] <fabbione> daniels: an interdiff no, eh?
[11:52] <fabbione> ;)
[11:52] <daniels> i'll make one now
[11:52] <fabbione> nah i will do it here
[11:52] <fabbione> it's the same
[11:54] <daniels> frig
[11:54] <daniels> wrong dif
[11:54] <daniels> f
[11:54] <daniels> let me scp from the right dir this time
[11:55] <fabbione> daniels: ok...
[11:56] <daniels> copying now
[12:36] <mr_mojo> hi guys, where has the beagle package in universe gone?
[12:36] <tseng> how do you mean, gone
[12:37] <jdub> mr_mojo: it hasn't been uploaded yet - too much flux underneath it
[12:37] <mr_mojo> E: Couldn't find package beagle
[12:37] <mr_mojo> oh
[12:38] <seb128> hey jdub 
[12:38] <jdub> yo
[12:38] <mr_mojo> do you know when it'll be ready?
[12:38] <tseng> for breezy.
[12:38] <jdub> mr_mojo: unlikely that it will be in hoary
[12:38] <mr_mojo> can i install it seperate?
[12:38] <tseng> if you want memory leaking, sure.
[12:39] <jdub> not usefully at this stage, unless you build mono and up
[12:39] <mr_mojo> i thought they'd fixed most of the leaking bugs?
[12:39] <tseng> you cant just build mono, you need to purge it and build the entire stack
[12:39] <mr_mojo> o ok
[12:40] <thoreauputic> mr_mojo: re your sudden departure from #ubuntu : please read the code of conduct
[12:40] <zyga> hmmm 
[12:40] <zyga> leaks in mono or in beagle?
[12:40] <mr_mojo> another quick question then, will firefox ever have the proper icon?
[12:40] <jdub> mr_mojo: it won't
[12:40] <tseng> mr_mojo: no, its restricted to use by builds from mozilla.org
[12:40] <mr_mojo> i don't think mono itself leaks, i use tomboy and muine for about 18 hours a day lol :)
[12:40] <tseng> we cant legally distribute our own firefox branded builds
[12:41] <jdub> mr_mojo: have a look at their trademark licensing requirements - we are not able to comply
[12:41] <mr_mojo> could you not 'liase' with mozilla and get it fixed?
[12:41] <mr_mojo> sure
[12:41] <tseng> mr_mojo: it certainly does, but id rather not argue
[12:41] <jdub> mr_mojo: read the docs - we already have
[12:41] <tseng> mr_mojo: and no, you cant liase with a clear legal trademark
[12:41] <tseng> however silly it is.
[12:41] <jdub> tseng: that's not entirely true
[12:42] <jdub> tseng: some work has been done to find a policy appropriate for MOFO, debian, ubuntu, etc.
[12:42] <tseng> hm
[12:43] <tseng> time for work, bye jdub.
[12:43] <jdub> ciao!
[12:43] <mr_mojo> this is stupid from mozilla
[12:43] <daniels> it's been debated endlessly
[12:45] <Mitario> hello everyone
[12:45] <mr_mojo> ok, call me stupid, but could you not just distribute the official builds?
[12:45] <Mitario> mvo: around?
[12:45] <thom> mr_mojo: no
[12:46] <thom> mr_mojo: they only build on x86, and they're utterly unintegrated with the rest of ubuntu
[12:46] <mr_mojo> like the msttfcorefonts works? an 'extractor' utility which takes the packaage and puts it in the right places?
[12:47] <daniels> mr_mojo: again, 'only build on x86', and still utterly unintegrated (we have code patches to fix the themes, etc)
[12:47] <daniels> it's really not a simple problem, else it'd be solved by now
[12:47] <mr_mojo> well the themes are just a folder in the chrome, but i take your point
[12:47] <mvo> Mitario: yes
[12:48] <mr_mojo> considering probably someting like 95-99% of users will be using x86, would it not be worth using the official ones for x86 and unoffical ones for ppc etc (and hope the mofo builds for ppc?)
[12:48] <mr_mojo> that's mozilla fonudation btw ;)
[12:49] <jdub> mr_mojo: no, it is not remotely viable.
[12:49] <daniels> and have firefox behave differently based on whether you're using i386 or another arch?  including a different icon?  suicidal.  and it's not even 95% these days.
[12:49] <thom> mr_mojo: no, that's even stupider since the *whole point* of a distro is to be as consistent as possible cross platform; you're talking about creating innumerable problems for the sake of an icon
[12:50] <mr_mojo> well i think you will suffer more from not having the proper firefox icon
[12:50] <mr_mojo> it's got a huge brand built round it
[12:50] <thom> mr_mojo: well, go talk to MoFo about resolving their trademark issues
[12:51] <mr_mojo> i understand their trademark issues
[12:51] <mr_mojo> they can't do anything about it really
[12:51] <daniels> and neither can we
[12:51] <mr_mojo> ive proposed a solution ;)
[12:51] <thom> no you haven't
[12:52] <daniels> the options are: a) use a consistent and obvious icon for everything, b) not have firefox on 4 of our 5 architectures, c) have firefox behave totally differently and have a different icon depending on which architecture you use
[12:52] <daniels> 'i want to get a web browser, how do i do that?' 'click on the ... well, what sort of computer do you have?' 'i don't know ... a pc' 'i386 or amd64?' 'what?' 'when did you buy it?  how fast is it?  what does cat /proc/cpuinfo say?' '*sigh* never mind ...'
[12:52] <mr_mojo> that's really unfair
[12:52] <daniels> as well as an absolute nightmare wrt security updates
[12:52] <daniels> how is it unfair?
[12:53] <mr_mojo> you are slating me when i propose a solution
[12:53] <daniels> not you in particular, it's just that your solution is totally unworkable
[12:53] <thom> mr_mojo: no, we're pointing out the huge number of issues that your "solution" would create
[12:53] <mr_mojo> now you are insane if you think ppc users won't know that they are running a ppc computer
[12:53] <zyga> hmmm
[12:53] <zyga> what's the problem with firefox?
[12:54] <mr_mojo> you are overexaggerating stuff to put me down
[12:54] <thom> zyga: we can't use the branded icon
[12:54] <daniels> mr_mojo: why should it be different?  why do we suddenly need two sets of instructions for everything?  and can you explain the difference between i386 and amd64 to my mother?
[12:54] <zyga> why not?
[12:54] <mr_mojo> no, because your mother should be using 1i386
[12:54] <mr_mojo> i386*
[12:54] <daniels> but she isn't, because the cheapest pre-built computers you can find today are amd64.  anything else?
[12:54] <mr_mojo> what the heck?
[12:54] <thom> zyga: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2004/02/msg01877.html
[12:54] <mr_mojo> do you know that amd64 runs i386 aswell?
[12:54] <daniels> mr_mojo: yes, I do
[12:55] <mr_mojo> why would she restrcit herself massively by choosing amd64 and losing lots of software over i386?
[12:55] <thoreauputic> mr_mojo: for heaven's sake.... stop wasting their time
[12:55] <mr_mojo> does she really need 64bit memory addressing?
[12:55] <daniels> but I think this is utterly pointless.  if you want to seriously propose that we have a completely different web browser across architectures, go ahead, but don't be offended when no-one else is enthusiastic about it.
[12:55] <mr_mojo> stop exaggerating!
[12:56] <mr_mojo> its not a 'completely different web browser', it would be the exact same web browser, just you'd have the proper icon on x86!
[12:57] <Treenaks> mr_mojo: depending on your definition of "proper"
[12:57] <thom> mr_mojo: it's not the same web browser. we have stacks of patches to make firefox work and to fix issues that our users have. most of those will not go into firefox 1.0 branch because moz.org is not interested in landing those patches on a stable branch
[12:57] <zyga> can we contact the author of the original artwork and ask him to give us permission?
[12:57] <daniels> mr_mojo: the last thing I have to say on the topic is this -- imagine the case where we have 0.93 in warty, and 1.0PR1 is released, fixing security vulnerabilities, but breaking a whole bunch of other stuff.  do you update the build to the version and break other stuff, do you leave everyone vulnerable, or do you roll back to your own version using an unofficial icon?
[12:57] <zerokarmaleft> it's just an icon...and as far as branding is concerned, strenthening the ubuntu brand should be a higher priority than promoting firefox a bit more with official icons
[12:57] <thom> zyga: it's not his choice; read the two forum threads in the mail i linked to you
[12:58] <zyga> thom: reading now
[12:58] <thom> mr_mojo: anyway, this is utterly off topic; accept that we're not going to implement the solution that you suggest.
[12:58] <mr_mojo> ok, so if this is such a huge nightmare problem how come nld9 has the real firefox icon?
[12:59] <thom> mr_mojo: you're off topic now, please stop
[01:00] <mr_mojo> kick me
[01:00] <mr_mojo> jesus
[01:03] <fabbione> thom: you scared him :)
[01:03] <thom> meh :/
 jesus
[01:03] <fabbione> at least he recognized who you are :)
[01:03] <thom> heh
[01:04] <thom> he should be more polite to his saviour, then :P
[01:04] <fabbione> ok let me prepare the last (hopefully.. pitti eh?) kernel for hoary...
[01:05] <daniels> fabbione: scaring one person > having a useless development channel
[01:05] <fabbione> daniels: dude.. thom has been way too nice...
[01:05] <fabbione> i am just too lazy to op myself
[01:07] <pitti> fabbione: the absolutely last one or the really, really, really absolutely last one? or even more absolute? :-)
[01:07] <fabbione> pitti: eheheh
[01:07] <thom> pitti: dude, it's tuesday. by thursday there'll be three more critical issues
[01:07] <daniels> heh
[01:07] <pitti> thom: I never questioned this :-)
[01:08] <pitti> thom: btw, did you try to jigdo today's i386 images? ppc works fine, but for i386 I get a template md5sum mismatch
[01:08] <Treenaks> thom: you should run out of critical issues eventually, right?
[01:08] <pitti> Treenaks: dreamer...
[01:22] <fabbione> thom: after this upload (-34) i won't care less about 3 more gave security self-destructive bugs..
[01:22] <fabbione> thom: it will be pitti's problem.. not mine :)
[01:23] <daniels> haha
[01:23] <fabbione> thom: he gave green light on empty queue :P
[01:23] <daniels> yeah, hopefully both the kernel and xorg are frozen tonight
[01:23] <HiddenWolf> Now that's the spirit. :P
[01:23] <fabbione> that's enough for me
[01:23] <fabbione> kthxbye pitti!
[01:23] <daniels> pitti: so yeah, after -10, any xorg bugs are yours too :P
[01:23] <daniels> or seb's, because they're really bugs in gtk
[01:23] <fabbione> ahha
[01:23] <pitti> kernel? huh? what's this?
[01:23] <daniels> pitti: it's this thing that has device drivers and a memory manager or something
[01:23] <daniels> maybe a scheduler too?
[01:24] <pitti> daniels: nobody wants that; folks want firefox and flashy colorful GUIs
[01:24] <daniels> they want a FULLY 3D-RENDERED DESKTOP
[01:24] <HiddenWolf> daniels: right 
[01:24] <pitti> with 17 channel sound
[01:24] <HiddenWolf> pitti: better!
[01:24] <fabbione> pitti: AH
[01:24] <fabbione> see
[01:24] <daniels> because solid JPEGs look so much better when it's your 3D engine blitting them from a GL texture than your 2D engine via a pixmap upload
[01:24] <Keybuk> daniels: to run on my dual-opteron?
[01:24] <Keybuk> *IN MY MIND*
[01:24] <fabbione> the 17 chan sound comes for the kernel
[01:24] <fabbione> pitti: you WIN!
[01:25] <daniels> Keybuk: you did what to concordia?
[01:26] <Keybuk> nah, just dreaming of my new desktop; sadly my arse doesn't earn quite as much as it used to, so it'll be a while before I can afford it :'(
[01:26] <jdub> you should make your arse work harder ;)
[01:26] <fabbione> Keybuk: and you still don't have a wife :)
[01:26] <jdub> hell, it could be working at the same time your hands are ;)
[01:27] <daniels> 'the hardest-working arse in open source'
[01:27] <daniels> except not really; you got your crotch into the april fools' background, but what's your arse featured in?
[01:27] <Keybuk> I did?
[01:27] <HiddenWolf> daniels: yuk!
[01:28] <zyga> ah the spirit of open source :)
[01:29] <Keybuk> daniels: nope, I'm not on it :)
[01:29] <daniels> Keybuk: yeah you are; on the far right
[01:29] <Keybuk> you've been staring at somebody else's crotch, I'm afraid
[01:29] <Keybuk> that isn't me
[01:29] <daniels> oh?
[01:29] <daniels> i've been misled
[01:30] <daniels> matt's on the left, in the blue
[01:31] <JaneW> Hi thought that was Kinnison?
[01:31] <JaneW> I
[01:31] <JaneW> on the RHS I mean
[01:32] <jdub> Keybuk: that is so your crotch.
[01:32] <daniels> Keybuk: you don't own the slacker t-shirt?
[01:32] <jdub> JaneW: the green shoe at the bottom left is me. :-)
[01:32] <Keybuk> nope, I don't own a "Slacker" t-shirt
[01:32] <JaneW> heh
[01:32] <Keybuk> or a camera of that make
[01:32] <daniels> yeah, jdub has phat shoes
[01:33] <jdub> i'm tempted to ship it as a bonus gdm theme
[01:34] <jdub> five yesses, and i'll ship tit
[01:34] <jdub> ship it
[01:34] <Keybuk> ++
[01:34] <daniels> much better to ship the picture of elmo running across the road
[01:34] <daniels> i found that again, giggled
[01:34] <JaneW> ship tit!?
[01:35] <JaneW> would that be your own special green one? ;)
[01:35] <Keybuk> http://www.netsplit.com/events/2004/barcelona/barcelona-003.html
[01:35] <jdub> JaneW: scarily, i just got five private messages saying that yes, i should ship tit instead... hrm.
[01:35] <JaneW> *grin*
[01:35] <jdub> everyone knows that warty was the tit release, not hoary!
[01:35] <dholbach> ship it!
[01:35] <dholbach> :-)
[01:36] <Keybuk> http://www.jamesh.id.au/photos/2004-12-Mataro/imgp0247.html
[01:36] <Keybuk> ^ the owner of the Slacker t-shirt
[01:36] <daniels> ahar
[01:36] <fabbione> JaneW: ahha
[01:36] <jdub> man, i still haven't put my mataro photos up yet
[01:37] <sladen> it's a dancing teddy pretending to ride an imaginary bicycle along a cycle track?
[01:37] <JaneW> so who's the slacker then?
[01:38] <jdub> ha ha
[01:38] <Keybuk> JaneW: Jonathan Masters ... was a guest on the last day or two
[01:38] <daniels> *giggle* http://www.jamesh.id.au/photos/2004-12-Mataro/imgp0248.html
[01:39] <fabbione> ehhe
[01:39] <fabbione> i think i have a few pics of elmo looking normal
[01:39] <fabbione> but i am not going to publish them
[01:39] <HiddenWolf> lol@fabbione
[01:39] <Treenaks> fabbione: I have a few pictures of /jdub/ looking normal
[01:39] <fabbione> not without a good revenue at least :P
[01:40] <fabbione> Treenaks: i don't believe that :)
[01:40] <Keybuk> I think I have a picture of every discovered jdub pose ...
[01:40] <daniels> heh
[01:40] <Treenaks> fabbione: http://foodfight.org/fotos/2004/12-04%20Ubuntu%20Conference/12-07%20Ubuntu%20Conference/?img_0001.jpg
[01:41] <jdub> Keybuk: hah! unlikely!
[01:41] <fabbione> daniels: how the tests are going?
[01:41] <HiddenWolf> That must've been an inspiring presentation
[01:41] <daniels> fabbione: in the install target now, about to run a warty->hoary upgrade test
[01:41] <JaneW> is elmo camera shy?
[01:41] <fabbione> daniels: ok
[01:42] <Treenaks> HiddenWolf: it was about seeds & germinate..
[01:42] <fabbione> JaneW: yeah
[01:42] <Kamion> JaneW: let's say not fond of cameras :)
[01:43] <JaneW> heh, no better way to attract them..
[01:43] <Kamion> haha
[01:44] <fabbione> JaneW: good luck :)
[01:44] <daniels> elmo is about as fond of cameras as Kamion is of entertaining nicknames
[01:44] <aj> Kamion has entertaining nicknames?
[01:45] <fabbione> aj: yeah :)
[01:46] <fabbione> Treenaks: you have a bunch of nice pics there
[01:46] <dholbach> our wiki rocks: now it says:  ['Welcome. You are now logged in.', 'Welcome. You are now logged in.'] 
[01:46] <Treenaks> fabbione: like http://foodfight.org/fotos/2004/12-04%20Ubuntu%20Conference/12-07%20Ubuntu%20Conference/?img_0008.jpg ? :)
[01:46] <dholbach> wonder what happens, when i log in again
[01:47] <daniels> dholbach: yeah, that part is particularly special
[01:47] <daniels> dholbach: the URL lets you craft your own welcome message IIRC
[01:47] <fabbione> Treenaks: yeah :)
[01:47] <daniels> Treenaks: bah
[01:47] <dholbach> daniels: i didnt 
[01:47] <daniels> someone saw that photo and asked me if I'd been stacking on weight lately
[01:47] <dholbach> daniels: i just tried to login
[01:47] <daniels> dholbach: no, but you can if you want to
[01:48] <dholbach> daniels: i know, well i'll try later...
[01:50] <dholbach> i'll be out... having lunch with mvo - see you later
[01:53] <fabbione> pitti: you better start to baz get the kernel :)
[01:53] <fabbione> -34 ACCEPTED
[02:10] <daniels> frig
[02:10] <daniels> fabbione: ping
[02:11] <thom> foodfight.org is *such* an appropriate domain to be hosting mataro photos
[02:11] <thom> ;-)
[02:12] <pitti> deathbagp0rn.net
[02:13] <fabbione> daniels: ?
[02:13] <daniels> fabbione: how much do we care about migration?
[02:13] <fabbione> thom: ahahah
[02:13] <daniels> fabbione: i forgot that config gets called *twice*
[02:13] <daniels> fabbione: here's how it goes
[02:14] <fabbione> daniels: we do care and a lot
[02:14] <daniels> preconfig: xserver-xorg.config called, xserver-xfree86 templates migrated -> xserver-xorg
[02:14] <daniels> deconfigure: xserver-xfree86 removed
[02:14] <daniels> postinst: xserver-xorg.config called again, xserver-xfree86 templates migrated -> xserver-xorg
[02:14] <daniels> but they're seemingly busted
[02:15] <fabbione> daniels: there is a check that avoids that explicitly
[02:15] <fabbione> or there was at least
[02:15] <daniels> yeah
[02:15] <daniels> ok
[02:15] <fabbione> the test checks if the templates exists
[02:15] <fabbione> if they don't it doesn't perform the migration
[02:15] <fabbione> that's how i implemented it the first time
[02:15] <fabbione> and it was working
[02:16] <daniels> yep
[02:16] <daniels> i'm trying to figure out what's breaking it
[02:17] <jdub> elmo: please update planet ubuntu
[02:17] <lamont> mdz: win or lose, I get cloop mail
[02:19] <lamont> and the cool part is, the line count says pretty well how it did. :-)
[02:19] <jdub> yo lamont 
[02:19] <fabbione> hey lamont
[02:19] <fabbione> lamont: -34 is up
[02:19] <lamont> fabbione: woot
[02:19] <lamont> jdub: morning
[02:20] <jdub> lamont: mailed
[02:21] <pitti> Ho lamont
[02:21] <pitti> Hi, even
[02:23] <daniels> ah phew, it's just apt being crap
[02:23] <daniels> i think (crosses fingers)
[02:23] <lamont> jdub: ENOMAIL
[02:24] <jdub> lamont: should turn up soon
[02:24] <lamont> ok
[02:26] <fabbione> daniels: i will be back in 30 minutes or so
[02:26] <fabbione> sorry 15
[02:26] <daniels> fabbione: ok, i might be gone by then, i really need to get some fresh air and some food
[02:26] <daniels> fabbione: but i'm pretty sure i've nailed it, and will put sources on chinstrap
[02:27] <fabbione> daniels: we need to get -10 up today and we need to test it deeply
[02:27] <fabbione> daniels: we need to test it again for each change
[02:27] <daniels> fabbione: yep
[02:27] <Lathiat> any more kernel or xorg rebuilds planned?
[02:27] <daniels> just the one xorg
[02:28] <fabbione> Lathiat: kernel just went up
[02:28] <Lathiat> ah
[02:28] <daniels> fabbione: i'm not planning any sleep, but just need some air and food.  it's really stuffy in here and I'm starting to get the same killer headache that screwed me last night.
[02:28] <Lathiat> also is the patch to put an option for the quasi-spacial mode going to go in?
[02:28] <fabbione> daniels: ok
[02:28] <lamont> jdub: but it's in _sh_, not python. :-)
[02:28] <daniels> lamont: it must be good!
[02:29] <jdub> lamont: ber, bugger python for something like this :)
[02:29] <lamont> hehe
[02:30] <lamont> anyway, off to get ready and take kids to school.  back in about 90 or so.
[02:30] <daniels> I AM THE WINNER
[02:30] <lamont> jdub: you still gonna be awake then?
[02:30] <daniels> fabbione: warty -> hoary upgrades ar ego
[02:30] <lamont> daniels: of what? most-bloated-upload?  that'
[02:31] <lamont> s haggai, dude.
[02:31] <daniels> heh
[02:31] <daniels> of 'beating horrible debconf shell hacks'
[02:31] <lamont> you evil kid you
[02:31] <daniels> fabbione: i put in 1600x1200 for xserver-xfree86, and got that, with sync ranges, in xorg.conf when i upgrade
[02:31] <daniels> fabbione: no questions asked
[02:31] <daniels> lamont: i try :)
[02:32] <lamont> anyway, away with me.  back later
[02:33] <jdub> lamont: yeah
[02:33] <fabbione> daniels: what if you set to something like 800x600 ?
[02:33] <fabbione> daniels: are you sure it's not re-probing?
[02:33] <daniels> i'll test that one too, but should be ok
[02:34] <daniels> i'm sure it's not re-probing, because this is amd64
[02:34] <daniels> -> no ddc
[02:34] <fabbione> ah ok
[02:34] <daniels> also it was 16x12 10x7 8x6 ...
[02:34] <daniels> not all the resolutions in between
[02:34] <daniels> but i'll try 8x6
[02:34] <fabbione> ehhe
[02:34] <fabbione> ok
[02:34] <fabbione> i am off for a little while
[02:34] <daniels> ok, me too
[02:34] <daniels> scping new -10 packages to chinstrap:~daniels
[02:36] <daniels> fabbione: yeah, it works fine with 8x6 as well, and config/postinst now tells us a shitload more about what it's doing so debugging these problems won't be as hard in the future
[02:36] <daniels> i'll be back later, y'all
[02:36] <fabbione> daniels: ok
[02:41] <HiddenWolf> lol. just set the terminal to do a transparant background, and it's giving me my wallpaper instead of the xchat background that is behind it. :)
[02:41] <Treenaks> HiddenWolf: that's normal
[02:42] <HiddenWolf> Treenaks: It's funny tho. :)
[02:42] <HiddenWolf> transparant in my book is showing what's behind it. :)
[02:43] <Robot101> it's fake transparency
[02:43] <Robot101> it just hints the desktop
[02:43] <HiddenWolf> *smile*
[02:44] <SuperL4g> How do you edit the menus? or is there no way to do that?  I've got an icon I'd like to remove from the menu.
[02:45] <Treenaks> SuperL4g: remove the program
[02:46] <Robot101> open nautilus, go to location applications://
[02:46] <Robot101> rearrange as you see fit
[02:46] <Treenaks> Robot101: that only works in warty, right?
[02:47] <Robot101> hmm, really?
[02:47] <Treenaks> Robot101: yeah, but I thing someone pythoned up a menu editor
[02:47] <Robot101> I thought it came with the new vfolder shizzle, not went away with it
[02:48] <Treenaks> it went away with the new menu system
[02:48] <Robot101> hokay
[02:51] <thully> has anyone checked into the installer network configuration issues (wi-fi configuration can be an infinite loop if no hotspot is available is the largest one) I reported a while back... 
[02:52] <SuperL4g> Treenaks: I installed this package from source code, so that's not that easy. :/
[02:53] <SuperL4g> I thought that Acrobat Reader 7 would work on Ubuntu64, but there aren't any emul libs.
[02:53] <Kamion> thully: no
[02:54] <Kamion> not all of them, anyway
[02:54] <thully> OK
[02:54] <Kamion> I'm the only person doing this stuff, and I'm afraid I just have not had the time
[02:57] <pitti> dholbach: I reviewed http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/AptGetOrg
[02:57] <Kamion> (that's code for "patches welcome", by the way)
[03:02] <fabbione> daniels: -10 is not on chinstrap yet, is it?
[03:07] <kain> can somebody shoot ubuntu in #ubuntu
[03:07] <kain> ?
[03:07] <roo_> who are the ops for #ubuntu?
[03:08] <blueyed> done, roo_ .. :)
[03:08] <roo_> thanks blueyed :)
[03:09] <zul> morning
[03:11] <pitti> I'm offline for ~ 1 hour, cu later
[03:14] <shaya> whose in charge of the i386 kernel builds?
[03:15] <zul> shaya: kernel team
[03:15] <shaya> the madwifi part of restricted doesn't work really (but in i686 build, works perfectly fine)
[03:16] <shaya> but leaves one screwed after an install or livecd use (as that's i386 kernel)
[03:21] <fabbione> hi zul
[03:24] <zul> hey fabbione how is it gonig?
[03:24] <mvirkkil> dholbach: Did you manage to restore the work you did on the AptGetOrg page in the end?
[03:25] <dholbach> mvirkkil: re-reviewed them all :-)
[03:25] <dholbach> hey ogra, tritium 
[03:25] <tritium> hey dholbach :)
[03:25] <mvo> hey dholbach 
[03:25] <ogra> hi dholbach 
[03:26] <dholbach> hey mvo, long time no see ;-p
[03:27] <dredg> dholbach: you're insane. i salute you, i don't think i could have re-done it.
[03:28] <dholbach> dredg: fortunately, i have a good memory for useless stuff :-)
[03:28] <dholbach> dredg: so i remembered quite a few of them :-)
[03:28] <dredg> i'll be sure to point out to the apt-get people that they and their packages are useless :)
[03:28] <dredg> or did you in fact mean something else...? ;)
[03:29] <dredg> er, apt-get.org that is
[03:30] <dholbach> dredg: that was already diplomatic :-)
[03:31] <dredg> indeed :)
[03:31] <dredg> right, back to work. ttyl
[03:35] <kagou> hi
[03:37] <jdub> thom: is mod_security the kind of thing that every apache2 install should just have enabled by default?
[03:39] <dholbach> elmo: pitti has finished the security review of apt-get.org, seems like a GO, if you could look at the few that seem to have license issues
[03:40] <fabbione> daniels: you back?
[03:46] <jbailey> BAH
[03:46] <dredg> jdub: mod_security is bloody handy. especially for phpbb2 exploits, because you can acl off any request
[03:46] <jbailey> I just figured out that I can't reproduce this syslogd hang on this box because ppc doesn't have nptl.
[03:50] <seb128> fabbione: do you use the standard gamin output or you have hacked it to be verbose ?
[03:51] <jdub> fabbione: apologies for sicking DV onto you, but this is probably the best way to deal with it ;)
[03:52] <fabbione> seb128: i added a few more lines here and there, but just sending a kill -SIGUSR2 is enough to see the issue in the logs
[03:52] <seb128> fabbione: just copy the log on rafb.net and point it to him
[03:52] <fabbione> jdub: no.. nothing to be sorry.. this is stuff that you are supposed to be doing :)
[03:53] <Simira> jdub: hey, got my mail about the ubuntu-no list?
[03:54] <zul> heh ubuntu-no sounds funny...
[03:54] <fabbione> anyway, clearly gamin is broken by desing
[03:54] <Simira> zul: we decided not to go for no-ubuntu....
[03:54] <fabbione> it would take me less time to rewrite it than to debug it
[03:54] <zul> Simira: that would be funnier :)
[03:55] <jdub> Simira: yep, glad you're here, we can sort out passwords and stuff directly :)
[03:55] <fabbione> seb128: rafb.net?
[03:55] <jdub> fabbione: i can't explain it :)
[03:55] <Simira> jdub: sure
[03:55] <fabbione> jdub: your problem.. not mine.. i am not the DD for gamin
[03:55] <fabbione> :)
[03:56] <seb128> fabbione: http://rafb.net/paste/, a stuff handy when you don't want to bother upload files somewhere
[04:03] <fabbione> daniels: ping?
[04:06] <bod>   mirrors@canonical.com                                                                                                             
[04:06] <bod> as listed on http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/Archive
[04:06] <bod> is broken
[04:25] <daniels> fabbione: pong
[04:25] <fabbione> daniels: the -10 on chinstrap is the same as before...
[04:25] <fabbione> you didn't upload the fixed one
[04:26] <daniels> ok, uploading a new one now
[04:34] <mdz> morning
[04:34] <dredg> lo mdz 
[04:34] <zul> hey mdz
[04:35] <mdz> fabbione: does mpfr have many reverse {build-,}depends?
[04:35] <daniels> fabbione: check chinstrap:~daniels
[04:35] <seb128> hi mdz 
[04:35] <daniels> mdz: morning
[04:36] <lamont> moof
[04:36] <fabbione> daniels: ok
[04:36] <lamont> morning mdz
[04:36] <mvo> morning mdz
[04:36] <lamont> mdz: to rephrase my answer earlier: I get emailed the output of BuildLiveCD from the cronjob
[04:37] <fabbione> mdz: gcc-4.0 build-dep on it. it's only a rebuild to get rid of dir.old.gz, but jdub authorized it
[04:37] <lamont> so if you start the build, then no, I don't get email about it
[04:37] <fabbione> daniels: downloading now
[04:38] <mdz> fabbione: ok, sounds fine
[04:38] <fabbione> mdz: it's harmless. no changes anywhere
[04:39] <mvo> mdz: permission to upload http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/01_fix_permisson_and_session.patch?
[04:39] <fabbione> daniels: i keep getting the same interdiff....
[04:39] <daniels> fabbione: hm
[04:39] <mdz> fabbione: did you scan for dir.old.gz in othre packages as well?
[04:40] <mdz> mvo: what is the intent of the setsid?
[04:40] <lamont> fabbione: if you didn't, I'll do it now.
[04:40] <daniels> fabbione: do you have the two bug closers in debian/changelog and debug_echo() in .postinst.in?
[04:40] <fabbione> mdz: elmo was generating a new Contents-*.gz, but i think he crashed before it finished
[04:40] <daniels> fabbione: if so, that's the latest package which works fine with a warty -> hoary upgrade and doesn't ask any questions
[04:41] <fabbione> daniels: yes i have the 2 bug closers, but i don't see any code change from the other interdiff
[04:41] <mvo> mdz: there is a problem that time-admin restarts xscreensaver. when time-admin runs with sudo everything is fine, but when it runs with gksudo xscreensaver gets a SIGHUP when gksudo exits
[04:41] <lamont> fabbione: making a pass over main now
[04:42] <fabbione> daniels: i have debug_echo() yes.. but no changes related to debconf
[04:42] <fabbione> daniels: nothing more of what we discussed this morning
[04:42] <fabbione> lamont: thanks
[04:42] <Kamion> hmm, "New Login" on the live CD is badness
[04:42] <Kamion> not only do you get prompted for a username/password, but also when you quit the nested gdm you get prompted by xscreensaver for a password
[04:43] <daniels> fabbione: all that's left is removing MIGRATE_XF86, which is purely cosmetic ... with this, the upgrade didn't ask me about the resolution at all, it just carried over
[04:44] <lamont> Kamion: that's under the "don't do that" category, or was when I asked about it...
[04:44] <lamont> classed as the same as 'lock screen'
[04:44] <lamont> which is also permanent
[04:44] <pitti> Hi mdz 
[04:44] <fabbione> daniels: something isn't matching than. you mean the entire problem you described this morning was related to missing debug_echo ?
[04:44] <lamont> however, ctl-alt-backspace cleans it up....
[04:44] <dholbach> pitti: thanks for reviewing
[04:44] <Kamion> lamont: or switching to ctrl-alt-f1 and 'sudo passwd ubuntu'
[04:44] <pitti> dholbach: you're welcome
[04:44] <daniels> fabbione: no, me needing to just sit back and think for five seconds
[04:44] <lamont> Kamion: true
[04:44] <daniels> fabbione: i knew there wasn't something quite right about the debugging output
[04:45] <lamont> Kamion: or rebooting :-)
[04:45] <mdz> mvo: ok, that makes sense
[04:45] <daniels> fabbione: i saw 'Resetting all values' and realised it was still an old, old package
[04:45] <mdz> mvo: I'm concerned that it could have unexpected consequences 3 days before release though
[04:45] <fabbione> daniels: ok...
[04:45] <daniels> (i changed Resetting to resetting)
[04:45] <fabbione> daniels: yes i can see that
[04:45] <daniels> doing a new test with the same logic that was there this morning worked ok
[04:45] <daniels> so it was that that tipped me off ... i'm about to try intra-hoary upgrade, fresh install, and reconfigure tests
[04:46] <fabbione> daniels: ok
[04:46] <fabbione> lamont: please be sure to check it also on all arches
[04:46] <fabbione> lamont: because it seems that the sparc problem was due to sparc lagging a few days...
[04:46] <fabbione> so there might be packages that didn't have the treatment
[04:49] <daniels> fabbione: intra-hoary upgrade and reconfigure are OK
[04:49] <fabbione> ok..
[04:49] <pitti> who can I bother with a broken jigdo template for i386?
[04:50] <lamont> fabbione: certainly checking all architectures.
[04:50] <thom> pitti: kamion
[04:50] <pitti> thanks
[04:50] <fabbione> lamont: thanks
[04:51] <mvo> mdz: I agree with you, I'm not happy about it either. 
[04:51] <pitti> Kamion: do you have an idea why the i386 jigdo template is broken today? md5sum does not match the .jigdo file. powerpc works fine
[04:51] <mvo> ogra: could you please file a bug about the xscreensaver/time-admin problem so that the patch can be put into bugzilla?
[04:52] <mdz> mvo: agreed; let's document the workaround there, and change gksudo after release
[04:53] <lamont> dpkg-deb: file `/srv/archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/d/diveintopython/diveintopython_5.4-1ubuntu1_all.deb' contains ununderstood data member data.tar.bz2    , giving up
[04:54] <zul> dont be sad put on a happy face...happy happy people
[04:54] <daniels> fabbione: clean install looks ok ... you got any testing/comments?
[04:54] <fabbione> daniels: i want another warty -> hoary test, just be 1000% sure
[04:55] <daniels> ok
[04:55] <daniels> i'll do the third :)
[04:55] <Kamion> pitti: which md5sum?
[04:55] <fabbione> daniels: than i will be happy with that
[04:55] <fabbione> yes please
[04:55] <mdz> I'll do warty->hoary upgrades on powerpc and amd64 once it's in the archive
[04:55] <fabbione> mdz: thanks. i will test here too 
[04:55] <fabbione> mdz: on more machines..
[04:55] <Kamion> pitti: but basically no, I don't know
[04:56] <fabbione> mdz: with -34 i am happy enough with the kernel. i think we can start working on breezy features soon
[04:56] <pitti> Kamion: okay, if it's not fixed by tomorrow, I cry again
[04:56] <pitti> Kamion: maybe just a glitch in today's image, I try the ones from tomorrow
[04:56] <mdz> doko,jbailey: here?
[04:57] <zul> fabbione: wohoo! :)
[04:57] <Kamion> pitti: ok, it would very much surprise me if it were a server problem though, nothing's changed there
[04:58] <jbailey> mdz: Here.
[04:58] <lamont> fabbione: starting with a 2.6.11pre12.0 kernel?
[04:58] <fabbione> lamont: i was more up for a 2.6.12rc2 or something like that
[04:58] <fabbione> but yeah
[04:58] <zul> why...2,6.12rc2 was released
[04:58] <fabbione> on that line
[04:58] <zul> better sata supprot as well
[04:58] <fabbione> uzul: i just recko that i am tired
[04:59] <fabbione> he meant 2.6.10pre2.6.12
[04:59] <lamont> pb is that 2.6.12rc2 > 2.6.12
[04:59] <zul> heh
[04:59] <fabbione> that would include rc2 :)
[04:59] <lamont> so, no, I meant 2.6.11pre12.rc2
[04:59] <fabbione> lamont: sorry.. i got it a few secs later
[04:59] <lamont> after all, it is newer than 11
[04:59] <fabbione> lamont: that's ok with me, given that we can let make-kpkg to understand that :)
[05:00] <lamont> well, worst case, we call it 2.6.11.95 :-)
[05:00] <fabbione> that would be easier...
[05:00] <fabbione> seriously
[05:00] <lamont> that is, linux-source-2.6.12_2.6.11.95-0
[05:01] <lamont> I have no problem with that version number, as long as it becomes _2.6.12-1 before release. :0)
[05:01] <lamont> prolly want to start with .90, just to have room... :-)
[05:01] <jbailey> lamont: At least call it .96 and say that .95 is rc1.
[05:01] <fabbione> why that?
[05:01] <fabbione> it's a "fresh" start
[05:02] <zul> jbailey: heh..you could call .99 the wayne gretzky release :)
[05:02] <jbailey> So that you can look at the version number and guess what kernel rev it likely maps to.
[05:02] <Kamion> mdz: please merge colin.watson@canonical.com--2005/casper--translations--0 up to patch-14
[05:02] <jbailey> (assuming that the scheme will get reused again)
[05:02] <daniels> mdz: this is the only other thing I can think of left -- https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2150
[05:02] <daniels> mdz: the patch looks ok, both from a description and code pov
[05:03] <mdz> daniels: what real-world circumstances could be affected by that bug?
[05:03] <pitti> lamont: would linux-source-26.12 would work? because you need a new orig.tar.gz when 2.6.12 final is released
[05:04] <daniels> mdz: some laptops just go 'wtf' and refuse to work
[05:04] <daniels> mdz: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6746
[05:04] <daniels> seems to only be trident cyberblade
[05:04] <daniels> most everyone else isn't that strict about vesa
[05:04] <daniels> fabbione: ok, works fine for me
[05:05] <lamont> pitti: sure
[05:05] <lamont> linux-source-2.6.12_2.6.11.90.orig.tar.gz != linux-source-2.6.12_2.6.12.orig.tar.gz
[05:05] <mdz> Kamion: merged and uploaded
[05:05] <fabbione> daniels: warty -> hoary?
[05:05] <daniels> fabbione: yep
[05:05] <lamont> zul: dave draveky release
[05:06] <daniels> fabbione: using 1920x1440 800x600 640x480
[05:06] <zul> lamont: heh
[05:06] <mdz> jbailey: do you have anything on your list for Hoary which justifies an upload this week?
[05:06] <fabbione> daniels: ok.. you have my blessing for uploads at 2 conditions.. keep your damn mobile phone on... and put aside more money for beer if it breaks the shit out of *
[05:06] <mdz> jbailey: if not, I think it would be good to get a head start on breezy stuff
[05:06] <daniels> fabbione: haha
[05:06] <daniels> fabbione: consider it done
[05:06] <mdz> jbailey: since you and doko want to get at it before everyone else
[05:06] <fabbione> daniels: ok
[05:06] <pitti> mdz: I got a security update from astharot for racoon, which is in universe; however, the source pacakge (ipsec-tools) is in main; do you agree that I should write an USN in this case?
[05:07] <mdz> daniels: I have a laptop with a trident cybersomethingorother but not 'blade'; it worked OK the last time I tested
[05:07] <daniels> mdz: yeah, the cyberblade is a different chipset to the rest
[05:07] <mdz> pitti: this is an awkward case :-/
[05:08] <pitti> mdz: if I update without an USN, then the people could ask themselves why ipsec-tools was upgraded
[05:08] <lamont> mdz: once we have an archive for it, and jbailey/doko tell me what they want in it, we can do that full rebuild for them anytime... although it would be nice to wait until after we finish the long-build-time package-thrash
[05:08] <pitti> mdz: I would mention that it only affects racoon, which is actually unsupported officially
[05:08] <mdz> pitti: for Hoary we should review packages in this situation, and decide if we should promote them or split them
[05:09] <pitti> lamont: erm, of course. my brain already sleeps, as it seems
[05:09] <mdz> lamont: what full rebuild?  a test-and-throwaway rebuild like for hoary?
[05:09] <pitti> mdz: for hoary? breezy you mean?
[05:09] <lamont> mdz: gcc-4.0 throwaway rebuild
[05:09] <mdz> pitti: er, yes
[05:10] <pitti> mdz: *phew* :-)
[05:10] <Kamion> mdz: thanks
[05:10] <mdz> lamont: we might as well take advantage of the builds we'll already be doing, and only do an explicit test for packages which don't get built
[05:10] <mdz> lamont: many of the versions we'll be merging in will have gcc-3.4+ fixes anyway
[05:11] <lamont> right
[05:12] <jbailey> mdz: I just did the sysklogd upload, and I had arranged to be near an exchange server tomorrow to see if I could wipe out the various bugs that keep showing up in it.
[05:12] <lamont> which compiler is default for breezy?
[05:12] <daniels> fabbione: -10 is up
[05:12] <fabbione> daniels: rocking
[05:12] <lamont> daniels: you have a breezy goal to split at least the font source out of xorg, right?
[05:13] <mdz> jbailey: sysklogd?
[05:13] <jbailey> mdz: Miquel van Smoorenburg(sp?) reported a race condition where sysklogd could hang when a SIGALRM was received during a ctime call on an NPTL using machine.
[05:14] <jbailey> mdz: The side effect after that is that anything that uses syslog(), which is synchronous, hangs until syslogd wakes up again.
[05:14] <daniels> lamont: i have a breezy goal to split as much as is sensible out of xorg
[05:14] <jbailey> Very short patch that masks the signals and restores them after the critical section.
[05:14] <pitti> daniels: yay!
[05:14] <daniels> lamont: we're looking at an upstream release date of august for the complete modular tree, so yeah, fonts will certainly go
[05:14] <daniels> with any luck, there will be no 'xorg'
[05:14] <fabbione> lamont: when in novemeber we did the X sprint.. it could have take us only a week more of work to get xorg splitted.. but we were told to wait for breezy
[05:15] <Kamion> will we be able to pull stuff in before August?
[05:15] <pitti> daniels: and libxpm will be thrown out to universe *hehe* :-)
[05:15] <mdz> fabbione: it sounds like modular xorg won't be ready for breezy but perhaps for breezy+1; is it worth the effort to split xorg when modular is coming?
[05:15] <fabbione> mdz: it was worth in november yes...
[05:16] <fabbione> mdz: as you can see upstream delayed even further
[05:16] <fabbione> :(
[05:16] <fabbione> and we could have all gained a lot from it...
[05:16] <daniels> right
[05:16] <fabbione> SNMP
[05:16] <daniels> so the current proposed release schedule has X11R7 on August 19th
[05:16] <fabbione> it's daniels that his owned by X now :P
[05:16] <lamont> fabbione: security is too your problem
[05:17] <daniels> worst-case scenario, if it slips by a whole lot, we can just break out almost all the libraries and fonts and stuff and leave the server as is; the libraries are already a solved problem (and I already have the packages done)
[05:17] <fabbione> lamont: that's why modular > monolitic.. see libxpm :)
[05:18] <zyga> what is the purpose of splitting xorg into separate modules?
[05:18] <fabbione> that lib will cost us several hundred megs
[05:18] <mdz> silly keyboard shortcuts
[05:18] <daniels> although, to be fair, libxpm isn't entirely the modular tree's fault:
[05:18] <daniels> daniels@catsby:~/canonical/d-i/hoary-i386% apt-cache rdepends libxpm4 | wc -l
[05:18] <mdz> anyway, let's talk about xorg for breezy later, and talk about xorg for hoary now
[05:18] <daniels> 349
[05:18] <Kamion> zyga: not having to download three gazillion megabytes of fonts when someone fixes a typo in xserver-xorg.postinst
[05:18] <daniels> Kamion: (hypothetically)
[05:18] <daniels> mdz: -10 is up with some small tweaks that fix the xfree86 migration issues mentioned
[05:19] <zyga> Kamion: isn't it better to adopt xdelta or whatever it's called and actually download the difference ?
[05:19] <daniels> zyga: no
[05:19] <mdz> aha, it just reached me via hoary-changes
[05:19] <jbailey> zyga: It's also all the mirroring, etc..
[05:19] <daniels> zyga: it just doesn't make sense to me that a new version of fonts should get built when I change the Radeon driver
[05:19] <zyga> hmm
[05:19] <Kamion> zyga: er, very hard and poorly-understood solutions later rather than only moderately hard and fairly-well-understood solutions sooner, you mean?
[05:19] <Kamion> zyga: (i.e. no)
[05:19] <lamont> zyga: and the fact that compressed files don't xdelta/rsync very well, esp when they have timestamps in them
[05:19] <daniels> zyga: it also seriously cramps development -- on my new shiny fast amd64, it takes 45min-1hr for a full rebuild, depending on load ... that's a friggin' long time to find out at the end that you made a typo
[05:20] <zyga> I see
[05:20] <Kamion> there's a good reason that e.g. the installer is lots of different modules rather than one honking big lump
[05:20] <zyga> well downloading all the fonts over again does suck so I thkink that's positive
[05:20] <lamont> fabbione: does that mean we get to break out the kernel build too/?? :-)
[05:20] <daniels> on my laptop, it takes 2 hours; builds take about 4 or 5GB these days
[05:21] <fabbione> lamont: i would love that too :)))))
[05:21] <zyga> (as well as >> 50% of software for amd64 and i386)
[05:21] <fabbione> lamont: we need to decide a few things before UDU
[05:21] <daniels> zyga: this is one of the times when the main thing holding upstream back is the main thing holding the distributions back.  EVERYONE involved with X wants it to happen.
[05:21] <fabbione> lamont: so that we can start working for breezy
[05:21] <zul> fabbione: such as
[05:21] <lamont> that reminds me - I have an email message to write this week,.
[05:21] <fabbione> lamont: but let's do that in 10 minutes.. i really need to enjoy 10 minutes of air outside
[05:21] <fabbione> uzul: the packaging system suckage?
[05:21] <lamont> or was zul going to do his first pass and email...
[05:22] <zyga> daniels: in that case I trust in the wisdom of others :)
[05:22] <fabbione> lamont: it was your :)
[05:22] <mdz> Kamion: let's roll CDs and do a test cycle once xorg is built, sound good?
[05:22] <zul> lamont: still working on it..wasnt feeling well last night
[05:22] <Kamion> mdz: installer stuff still underway
[05:22] <lamont> fabbione: I kinda remembered it that way
[05:22] <Kamion> I'm testing out a change for that bootable-flag bug
[05:22] <mdz> Kamion: more than one xorg-build-unit worth?
[05:23] <Kamion> translation updates too
[05:23] <lamont> somehow didn't make it on the list though... fixing
[05:23] <Kamion> it'll need an initrd rebuild
[05:23] <mdz> lamont: one XBU ~= 3 hours or so, right?
[05:23] <lamont> XBU?
[05:23] <Kamion> I'll upload all the in-initrd stuff now
[05:23] <pitti> X build unit?
[05:23] <lamont> xorg build unit
[05:23] <lamont> checking
[05:24] <daniels> i'd say 3h would be the worst-case scenario
[05:24] <daniels> i think the longest build out of the major 3 is 74min
[05:24] <lamont> mdz: 90 min after source is in the archive, you should have all 3 arches in the archive
[05:25] <lamont> xorg:                   01:14:19 (13 entries, sigma 00:06:09)
[05:25] <daniels> that means I've got about 180min to sleep before everyone discovers -10 is completely screwed
[05:25] <daniels> g'night folks
[05:25] <daniels> lamont: 74min19sec, unless I'm *really* tired
[05:26] <lamont> daniels: hence the cookie
[05:26] <daniels> oh, right
[05:26] <daniels> well, pingable by mobile if it's totally snafu
[05:26] <zyga> daniels: rebuild of xorg?
[05:26] <daniels> zyga: yeah
[05:26] <zyga> daniels: how much ram do you have?
[05:27] <Kamion> any Germans around? I need a translation of "Kill switch enabled on ${iface}"
[05:27] <lamont> zyga: that's a 2GHz G5 with 2GB ram
[05:27] <zyga> last time I've rebuilt xorg (5 months ago) it took about 30 min on my laptop athlon 2000, 512
[05:27] <Kamion> ("Kill switch" is a single noun phrase, not kill (verb) switch (noun))
[05:27] <lamont> xorg:                   00:33:40 (12 entries, sigma 00:10:28)
[05:27] <lamont> thats amd64
[05:27] <zyga> maybe I had some modules turned off hmm...
[05:28] <Kamion> zyga: it'd only be a valid comparison if you were building the full source package
[05:28] <ogra> hmm, my mouse just stopped working in one of five mozilla windows, keyboard navigation works but i cant even move the scrollbar with the mouse, thom, any idea what this could be ?
[05:28] <lamont> zyga: that build time also includes installing and removing all of the build dependencies
[05:28] <mvo> Kamion: context for "kill switch"?
[05:28] <zyga> lamont: okay that makes sense
[05:28] <thom> ogra: "crack"
[05:28] <Kamion> mvo: it's a switch on some wireless cards that makes the card stop working
[05:28] <daniels> zyga: the amd64 has 1GB, matched-pair low-latency etc etc.  as kamion alludes to, we do other stuff.  unpacking a big tarball, applying patches, parsing and testing scripts, building the whole thing, building the entire tree again (after copying it) with the servers-only option, grouping it into packages after installing it, calculating dependencies ...
[05:29] <thom> ogra: you can't move the mouse at all, or something's eating your button presses?
[05:29] <mvo> Kamion: tricky one, let me think about it a moment
[05:29] <ogra> thom, i can move the mouse, and it works fine in the other mozilla windows...
[05:29] <Kamion> mvo: netcfg checks whether it's enabled (there's an rf_kill file in /sys that tells you) and warns the user that they might want to switch off the kill switch before continuing
[05:29] <seb128> Kamion: today's iso is supposed to have the translations you have merged yesterday ?
[05:30] <ogra> thom, just the one with the buzilla page seems to freak out, are there any strange javascripts ?
[05:30] <lamont> as of 07:33 london this am (when rookery's mirror last updated), there were no usr/share/info/dir.old.gz files in main
[05:30] <thom> ogra: not *that* strange
[05:30] <lamont> universe scan going now
[05:30] <Kamion> seb128: no, I haven't uploaded them yet
[05:30] <seb128> k
[05:30] <dholbach> lamont: scan?
[05:30] <ogra> thom, i can <tab> through the entrys, even the up/down keys work....i just cant click anything or move the scrollbar
[05:31] <lamont> dholbach: brute force walk through the archive looking for things that deliver dir.old.gz --> autoconf b0rkage
[05:31] <lamont> s/autoconf/autocrap - don't remember which/
[05:31] <pitti> jbailey: is the syslog hang triggerable by users?
[05:32] <lamont> dholbach: wandering to -motu to dump a little work on y'all
[05:32] <dholbach> lamont: great :-)
[05:32] <mvo> Kamion: "${iface} durch Hardwareschalter deaktiviert" (other germans, what do you think?)
[05:33] <jbailey> pitti: Yes, it should be.
[05:33] <jbailey> pitti: Although, it's quite difficult to do.  There's not alot of instructions, and the sigalrm happens once every 20 minutes.
[05:34] <pitti> jbailey: sounds like a local DoS then, and a necessary Warty fix ?
[05:35] <jbailey> pitti: Mmm...  My first inclination is not to bother, since the user would likely fill up the harddrive first with the overuse of the 'logger' command before triggering it - which I think is a far bigger (and generally unsolvable) issue.
[05:35] <ogra> thom, enter seems to work neither.....
[05:35] <jbailey> pitti: But it's an easy enough fix, and for completeness it would probably make sense.
[05:36] <pitti> jbailey: hmm, right
[05:38] <jbailey> pitti: I've marked the bug as 'remind' for myself so that I can see whether glibc ought to just protect against this anyway.  If that winds up being the case, I think it's a greater candidate for a warty/hoary backport from breezy.
[05:39] <ogra> thom, reproducable: my mouse stops working if the package selection pulldown pops up
[05:39] <ogra> (enter key as well)
[05:39] <thom> ogra: in the new bug page?
[05:40] <ogra> yup
[05:44] <ogra> thom, killing mozilla solved it...works with a new session...
[05:44] <wasabi_> It has occured to me that gnome-volume-manager should moutnt hings 'sync'
[05:44] <wasabi_> instead of async.
[05:44] <wasabi_> Because I just broke the file system on my USB drive because of it. =/
[05:44] <seb128> mvo: http://lists.debian.org/debian-l10n-french/2005/04/msg00186.html
[05:44] <ogra> mvo, #8684
[05:45] <seb128> mvo: can you use this french translation already ? They will probably do a review before sending it to you, but that should be better than the current one :)
[05:45] <mvo> ogra: thanks
[05:45] <mvo> seb128: ok
[05:45] <seb128> thanks
[05:45] <Kamion> mvo: ok, thanks, I'll use that; that should be German at 100%
[05:45] <mvo> Kamion: thanks
[05:46] <Kamion> damnit, I missed nb updates; lucky I only got partway through the translation upload run
[05:47] <mvo> seb128: commited to svn, will upload tomorrow or tonight
[05:47] <seb128> rock
[05:49] <blueyed> I can run different sound output programs with the same user using gnome and kde simultaneously, but not with two different users. Is this a bug? (esd, both users in audio group)
[05:52] <mdz> mjg59: re: #8490, do there exist laptops perverse enough to have software-controlled battery charge indicators?
[05:53] <HiddenWolf> mdz: probably, must be cheaper than hardware. :P
[05:54] <Keybuk> the hardware lights are usually on the battery themselves
[05:54] <thom> mdz: but what crack ful patch ahve suse found to make it work?
[05:55] <mdz> thom: "use apm"?
[05:57] <thom> mdz: hrm
[05:57] <thom> oh, for hibernate i don't see  a clean way of working round the problem, but i think we should request a reboot asap anyway...
[05:57] <Kamion> mdz: sorry, one more casper translation for you, patch-16
[05:59] <mdz> Kamion: done
[05:59] <mdz> thom: yes, but not for hoary
[06:03] <thom> mdz: nod
[06:07] <ogra> elmo, graveman sync please
[06:07] <elmo> [NOT Updating - Modified]  graveman_0.3.8-1ubuntu0 (vs 0.3.10-1)
[06:07] <elmo> ok to override?
[06:07] <ogra> yup
[06:08] <ogra> thanks :)
[06:08] <blueyed> about the sound with two different users (see above): should I file a bug report or is it not meant to work?
[06:10] <mvo> mdz: do you consider #8668 (update-manager does not uses the synaptic proxy settings for getting the changelogs) worth fixing before hoary? I have a patch in cvs for it
[06:11] <mdz> mvo: non-intrusive?
[06:12] <mdz> mvo: also, I saw a bug about hoary-updates not having a pretty description in synaptic; I assume that is trivial and safe to fix?
[06:13] <mvo> mdz: yes, the later is trivial and safe and already fixed
[06:13] <mvo> mdz: pretty non-intrusive, I feel pretty good about it
[06:15] <mdz> mvo: ok
[06:15] <mdz> ogra: did you not realize that cdrdao is in universe?
[06:15] <mdz> ogra: you'll need to revert that depends: change
[06:16] <ogra> ok
[06:16] <pitti> mdz: btw, haggai asked me to review cdrdao for main inclusion
[06:16] <mdz> pitti: yes, but not its new build-depends
[06:16] <pitti> uh?
[06:16] <mdz> ogra: oh, graveman is in universe, never mind
[06:16] <ogra> heh
[06:16] <dholbach> cdrdao needs a changed "section"-entry as well
[06:16] <pitti> mdz: haggai told me that he removed pccts
[06:17] <mdz> Build-Depends: pccts, autotools-dev, debhelper (>= 4.2.0)
[06:17] <mdz> that's the current version in hoary
[06:17] <elmo> dholbach: dude
[06:17] <mdz> it is too late to bring new packages into the desktop anyway
[06:17] <lamont> mdz: turns out that speech-dispatcher (amd64) and eb-doc (all) are the only packages in the archive (as of 0733 today london) with dir.old.gz
[06:17] <dholbach> elmo: what's up?
[06:17] <elmo> dholbach: small problem - morgue candidates is binary based... it needs to be source pkg based
[06:18] <dholbach> elmo: erm... ok - will add some kernel packages tomorrow, i'll give you the list then
[06:18] <dholbach> elmo: thanks for telling me
[06:18] <elmo> dholbach: I don't mind if you do it based on binaries for yourself, but just letting you know, I can only remove source packages, not partially remove some binaries, IYSWIM
[06:19] <mdz> lamont: assuming they're both universe, feel free to pass the list to MOTU recommending no-change uploads
[06:19] <dholbach> elmo: it's not only me who added to the list *blame somebody else* ;-)
[06:20] <jdub> elmo: new flumotion on its way - it will obsolete the 0.1.6 source
[06:20] <fabbione> lamont: did X -10 hitted archive yet?
[06:20] <mvo> mdz: last question for today: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/apt/apt-broken-proxy/apt_0.6.35ubuntu1.debdiff? should this enter or should we rather postpone it?
[06:20] <elmo> jdub: thanks
[06:21] <mdz> mvo: I may do an apt upload for translation updates; if so, I'll include that patch
[06:22] <ogra> fabbione, didnt you tell me randr doesnt work with nvidia ? worksforme....
[06:22] <ogra> or is this caused by the new driver ?
[06:22] <fabbione> ogra: did you use any specific option in the configuration?
[06:22] <mvo> mdz: thanks
[06:23] <fabbione> i am still running 7162 here or something along that line
[06:23] <fabbione> not the very latest
[06:23] <ogra> fabbione,      Option          "NvAGP" "3"
[06:23] <ogra>         Option          "IgnoreEDID"    "true"
[06:23] <ogra>         Option          "RenderAccel"   "true"
[06:23] <ogra>         Option          "NoLogo"        "true"
[06:23] <fabbione> ogra: i don't use any nvidia option in my config.. let me try..
[06:23] <schweeb> I've always been abe to use ranr in the past... I haven't tried lately (and am using X remotely now)
[06:23] <schweeb> *randr
[06:23] <fabbione> i need to do quite of a job to logout from this machine :)
[06:24] <fabbione> schweeb: with nvidia binary drivers?
[06:24] <schweeb> fabbione: yep
[06:24] <fabbione> weird.. probably it's because of the dual head.. 
[06:24] <fabbione> i will need to check with the new one
[06:24] <fabbione> brb
[06:24] <schweeb> that's a possibility
[06:24] <schweeb> I'm using dual head remotely :)
[06:25] <jdub> ogra: "NvAGP" "3" ?
[06:25] <ogra> fabbione, i have a huge amount of nvidia based submissions that worked
[06:26] <fabbione> ogra: sorry.. i can't test it
[06:26] <fabbione> i forgot to screen gcc-4.0 build
[06:26] <ogra> heh
[06:26] <fabbione> ogra: let me try again
[06:26] <fabbione> ogra: it still gives that python error
[06:26] <ogra> fabbione, but it looks like its your system....since others submit fine...
[06:26] <fabbione> Xlib:  extension "RANDR" missing on display ":0.0".
[06:26] <ogra> strange
[06:27] <lamont> fabbione: looks like it should enter this next run
[06:27] <fabbione> and than the traceback
[06:27] <ogra> jdub, whats wrong with 3 ?
[06:27] <fabbione> lamont: at 33?
[06:27] <fabbione> lamont: cool thanks :)
[06:27] <jdub> ogra: what's the setting?
[06:27] <fabbione> ogra: actually.. let me see how old is my system :)
[06:28] <ogra> fabbione, but i guess you got libxrandr2 installed....
[06:28] <fabbione> ogra: well if they are not and you need them for hwdb.. you should depend on them...
[06:29] <ogra> fabbione, i was guessing its an x dependency...
[06:29] <fabbione> ogra: it's installed..
[06:29] <ogra> ok
[06:32] <lamont> that is, all but amd64. :-(
[06:32] <blueyed> c'mon, it should be possible to have two users of the audio group access /dev/dsp, shouldn't it?
[06:32] <fabbione> lamont: uh? why amd64 is lagging?
[06:33] <ogra> blueyed, as much as its possible to drive a car with two drivers....
[06:33] <fabbione> ahaha amd64 owned by i386 and ppc
[06:33] <lamont> amd64 barely missed (missed ccache), powerpc hit the cache, won
[06:33] <lamont> amd64 will hit accepted at :35
[06:33] <ogra> blueyed, you still only have one steering wheel
[06:33] <fabbione> yeah but it lost the daily
[06:33] <blueyed> ogra, so it is not meant to work?
[06:33] <blueyed> but you could provide a layer to let both access it.
[06:34] <schweeb> blueyed: that's what ESD is about
[06:34] <blueyed> I thought that was esd for, and it seems to be, but only on a user level then.
[06:34] <blueyed> schweeb, I'm using ESD.
[06:34] <schweeb> yes, esd operates on a user level
[06:34] <ogra> blueyed, KDE doesnt use esd (except kubuntu has changed that)
[06:35] <schweeb> it'd get pretty complicated to do it otherwise
[06:35] <blueyed> I'm using amoraK with the gstreamer engine and esdsink.
[06:35] <blueyed> ogra, it also does not work with only gnome for both users.
[06:36] <blueyed> couldn't you please try it at your machine (if you think that it should work)?
[06:36] <ogra> blueyed, because the second esd cant start without a free dsp device
[06:36] <blueyed> Yesterday in #ubuntu someone said that it is a hardware issue, but I don't think so.
[06:37] <ogra> blueyed, it cant work...
[06:37] <lamont> --> #ubuntu
[06:37] <ogra> yop
[06:44] <pitti> seb128: can you please mail me 002_bmp.patch?
[06:44] <enrico> seb128: around?
[06:45] <seb128> enrico: yep
[06:45] <seb128> pitti: oh sure, sorry
[06:45] <enrico> seb128: I've just committed an update of the docteam stuff
[06:45] <enrico> seb128: I can't see, however, the translated quickguide
[06:45] <enrico> seb128: and I can't understand why
[06:46] <enrico> seb128: I'd like to fix that (or at least see that with someone) before uploading
[06:48] <mdz> thom: please address #8685 ASAP
[06:49] <ogra> jdub, Option "NvAGP" "3" #try to use AGPGART; if that fails, try NVAGP
[06:49] <thom> mdz: jdub claims to be doing it - it's an ubuntu-artwork update
[06:49] <ogra> jdub, admittedly a bit useless :-P
[06:50] <thom> mdz: oh, huh. the latter bit
[06:50] <seb128> enrico: how do you try to open them ?
[06:50] <thom> fixing
[06:50] <mdz> jdub: dude, we need to draw the line on this artwork business, seriously
[06:51] <mdz> we agreed to stop artwork updates a week prior to release
[06:51] <jdub> mdz: home page waiting on final design from henrik
[06:52] <mdz> thom: can we point firefox to the about-ubuntu page?
[06:52] <jdub> mdz: only one change left for other stuff - colours for wm-title/selection; i haven't seen cliff for days
[06:52] <jdub> mdz: also, haven't got his first calendar image
[06:52] <jdub> mdz: could you call him for me?
[06:52] <jdub> he hasn't appeared on IM today either
[06:52] <Kamion> the release checklist has "FINAL ARTWORK" for 7 days before release; Mark asked me to put that there in all caps and bold :)
[06:53] <jdub> Kamion: (note that mark has also requested changes)
[06:53] <mdz> jdub: will do
[06:53] <jdub> the ubuntu-docs about html is really ugle
[06:53] <jdub> ugly
[06:53] <Kamion> jdub: (note that I think Mark asked me to put that there so that we could stop him making changes ;-))
[06:54] <fabbione> thom: are you going to make another firefox upload?
[06:54] <thom> fabbione: yes
[06:54] <fabbione> thom: ok thanks.
[06:54] <mdz> jdub: left voicemail
[06:54] <thom> fabbione: why? :-)
[06:54] <jdub> ta
[06:54] <fabbione> thom: i will stop sparc to build the old version? :)
[06:55] <thom> ah, heh
[06:55] <dholbach> packing my stuff - see you later
[06:55] <lamont> fabbione: now that _IS_ funny... ia64 beat amd64
[06:55] <fabbione> since it's queued right as next package :)
[06:55] <fabbione> lamont: ahah i saw :)
[06:55] <dholbach> herzi: will have a look at hula-server, already downloaded it
[06:56] <jdub> mdz, Kamion: heh, also, i plead april 1 :)
[06:57] <thom> mdz: i can; if we're getting the artwork update shall i leave it with ubuntu-artwork in preference though?
[06:57] <Kamion> jdub: haha
[06:57] <mdz> thom: either way, as long as it's done today
[06:58] <thom> mdz: right
[07:05] <enrico> seb128: yelp ghelp:quick-guide
[07:10] <jdub> mdz, Kamion: just got another artwork request/delivery from mark :)
[07:11] <seb128> enrico: /usr/share/gnome/help/ubuntu-quickguide/
[07:11] <seb128> enrico: change it to /usr/share/gnome/help/quick-guide/
[07:12] <enrico> seb128: uh?  ah.  boh.  trying
[07:12] <enrico> seb128: do I need to do the same with the release notes?
[07:12] <seb128> not sure, but that seems to work here
[07:13] <elmo> enrico: any problem with upgrading docteam.u.c to svn 1.1?
[07:13] <enrico> seb128: let's see...
[07:13] <enrico> elmo: I think at least Sean is going to be very happy about it! :)
[07:14] <enrico> elmo: (and I don't think anyone else knows the difference ;)
[07:14] <elmo> enrico: k, cool
[07:15] <enrico> seb128: works great! Thanks!
[07:15] <seb128> np
[07:15] <seb128> hum
[07:15] <seb128> browsing from yelp the categories doesn't pick the translations ?
[07:15] <enrico> seb128: committed the new change
[07:16] <enrico> seb128: you need translated OMF from that
[07:16] <seb128> arg
[07:16] <seb128> is that planned ?
[07:16] <enrico> seb128: I've asked Claude for a translated french OMF 2 minutes ago (he raised the same problem)
[07:16] <seb128> cool
[07:16] <enrico> seb128: no idea if that's planned.  I guess not, since they're not coming :(
[07:16] <seb128> is that long to translate ? is claude doing it ?
[07:17] <enrico> If tomorrow's going to be release, we'll have no time for it (I won't be online tonight)
[07:17] <seb128> hoary is friday 
[07:17] <seb128> but I guess we are not going change after tomorrow
[07:19] <seb128> enrico: bah, the xml files are trivial to translation
[07:20] <pitti> seb128: did you already start with gdk-pixbuf? it's the same pacakge for warty and hoary, and since I do it anyway, I can fix hoary as well
[07:21] <enrico> seb128: trivial, if you know the language :)
[07:21] <seb128> pitti: nop yet, trying to fix french stuff atm :p
[07:21] <pitti> seb128: okay, then don't bother, I do it
[07:21] <seb128> pitti: thanks
[07:21] <seb128> ta
[07:28] <mjg59> mdz: Christ, possibly
[07:32] <lamont> mjg59: any clues why my vaio would occasionally (most of the time) claim to not have any batteries?  (it does)
[07:32] <lamont> mjg59: kernel output during boot claims acpi says no bat1 and no bat2
[07:35] <Kamion> lamont: please un-cron installer daily builds; I think it's time to say we'll do any further necessary ones manually
[07:35] <lamont> ok
[07:35] <lamont> Kamion: and livecd roots?
[07:35] <Kamion> no, leave those
[07:36] <mjg59> lamont: Hrngh. Unsure.
[07:36] <mjg59> lamont: Does it have the same behaviour with Warty kernels?
[07:37] <lamont> went back as far as 2.6.10-3, haven't tried the -2 that's still there as well
[07:37] <lamont> don't know that I ever saw it with warty
[07:37] <lamont> mind you, I also need to update the bios
[07:43] <pitti> elmo: can I please have libpng2-dev libgnome-dev in concordia's hoary-i386 dchroot?
[07:44] <thom> mdz: fixed firefox building
[07:44] <mdz> thom: thanks
[07:45] <thom> (they changed the way they handled setting the default homepage; the old patch was still there *sigh*)
[07:46] <elmo> pitti: done  but please let me know when you're finished
[07:46] <elmo> as libpng2 pulled out a bunch of useful packages
[07:46] <pitti> elmo: thanks, will do
[07:46] <pitti> urgh, sorry
[07:50] <lamont> Kamion: d-i daily builds disabled until you say otherwise
[07:51] <Kamion> thanks
[07:52] <Kamion> mdz: FYI, I may be offline much of this evening (hopefully won't be, but there's a possibility)
[07:52] <Kamion> mdz: with the exception of #8496, I think I'm more or less done
[07:54] <fabbione> edriver-crappydevice
[07:54] <fabbione> ops
[07:55] <fabbione> Kamion: does the installer have 2.6.10-34 or it will require an upload from you?
[07:55] <fabbione> never mind
[07:56] <fabbione> i just saw hoary-changes
[07:57] <pitti> elmo: I'm done, thanks
[08:07] <mdz> Kamion: acknowledged
[08:11] <fabbione> mdz: upgrading warty -> hoary with -10 now..
[08:11] <fabbione> it took a long time to rsync archive today
[08:11] <elmo> that's because EVERY CHANGE IN THE WORLD seems to be being uploaded atm
[08:12] <fabbione> elmo: eheheh
[08:12] <HiddenWolf> haha, sure feels that way
[08:12] <fabbione> lamont: people still doesn't have amd64 buildlog... is everything ok?
[08:13] <lamont> fabbione: yea
[08:14] <lamont> the log had, um, an issue or two.
[08:14] <Kamion> elmo: not my fault everyone doesn't just speak English
[08:15] <fabbione> Kamion: isn't time to fix this problem? ;)
[08:16] <fabbione> anyway .. after this batch upload sparc is definetely lagged again
[08:19] <mdz> Kamion: I hope the acquire::gpg::options code is solid; apparently it hasn't been tested all this time
[08:24] <lamont> ok.. how do I get openfirmware to spit out the paths on the machine?>
[08:26] <Kamion> mdz: it's Acquire::gpgv::Options::=--ignore-time-conflict, btw
[08:26] <Kamion> mdz: and I won't be able to finish that bug for CD-ROM installation; apt-cdrom does not honour that config option
[08:27] <Kamion> mdz: I think (a) it hasn't been tested since we moved apt-setup to the first stage, (b) one problem visible on netboot was masked in CD installations, because we turn off some of the signature verification there
[08:27] <fabbione> mdz: X is go here (multiarse too)
[08:28] <mdz> Kamion: it would be better to disable authentication for the CD case entirely
[08:29] <mdz> fabbione: are binaries in the archive now?  if so I can start my upgrade tests
[08:29] <Kamion> mdz: I wish I *could*
[08:29] <fabbione> mdz: yes. they were there one hour ago or so..
[08:29] <fabbione> mdz: sorry i wrote it here, but didn't underline it
[08:30] <mdz> Kamion: that should be safe to arrange
[08:30] <Kamion> mdz: if you can see how I can make apt-cdrom just sod off and ignore auth, please do, but I can't seem to do it with the current code
[08:31] <mdz> Kamion: I'm saying that it should be trivial to add that capability to it
[08:31] <mdz> I'll talk to mvo about it when he returns
[08:31] <Kamion> well, I'm about to make base-config use apt-cdrom -o Acquire::gpgv::Options::=--ignore-time-conflict (I had to do it for apt-get anyway, for the netboot case)
[08:32] <Kamion> so I'll be reassigning the bug to mvo in any case
[08:32] <mdz> lamont: new cloop builds with latest xorg, please
[08:33] <mdz> Kamion: I'm surprised it doesn't work, to be honest
[08:33] <fabbione> night everybody
[08:33] <ogra> ciao fabbione 
[08:34] <dholbach> bye fabbione 
[08:34] <Kamion> mdz: it's clear from the code that it doesn't
[08:34] <lamont> mdz: starting
[08:35] <lamont> ubuntu, kubuntu started , x3
[08:47] <lamont> seb128: you still around?
[08:47] <seb128> yep
[08:51] <thom> aargh, firefox i hate you
[08:51] <lamont> mdz: ready for a screwball regression in the hoary livecd?
[08:51] <lamont> vs warty
[08:52] <lamont> s/regression/"regression"/
[08:52] <lamont> warty live automounted any NTFS partitions from hard drives (read only, since the kernel doesn't support RW).  hoary live does not.
[08:53] <ogra> still no 1280x800@60 Hz in the monitor selection with nvidia for me :-/
[08:54] <mdz> lamont: it is neither screwball nor a regression.  It's a Morphix feature that casper doesn't implement.
[08:54] <mdz> it never has
[08:54] <mdz> though it's planned for breezy
[08:54] <lamont> right.
[08:54] <sjmorgan> can i ask a question in here that's related to me attempting to get a bug fixed and could mean a problem with breakage in the main repository?
[08:54] <mdz> sjmorgan: sure
[08:55] <sjmorgan> ok cool, when i do apt-get build-dep gedit i get "E: Build-dependencies for gedit could not be satisfied."
[08:55] <sjmorgan> and im not sure whether its a problem at my end or what
[08:55] <thom> sjmorgan: works fine for me
[08:56] <sjmorgan> hrmm interesting
[08:56] <sjmorgan> it worked for me as well but i just --purge'd a load of -dev packages and was expecting it to pull int just what i needed
[08:56] <dholbach> lamont: according to apt-file: dirmngr, eb-doc, findutils, libmpfr-dev, speech-dispatcher contain usr/share/info.*gz - did you tackle the other ones?
[08:56] <sjmorgan> int/in
[08:56] <dholbach> lamont: erm... usr/share/info/dir*.gz
[08:57] <sjmorgan> there doesn't seem to be an apt-get verbose style option
[08:57] <dholbach> lamont: i was supposed to take care of eb-doc and speech-disaster
[08:57] <Kamion> meh, stupid bugzilla
[08:57] <sjmorgan> it would really help if it actually told me what it isn't able to satisfy
[08:57] <Kamion> it won't let me clear the "QA Contact" field
[08:57] <mdz> sjmorgan: that typically means that you have some wacky stuff in sources.list / apt.conf / apt/preferences
[08:57] <Kamion> but "Reassign bug to owner and QA contact of selected component" works
[08:57] <lamont> mdz: my brother suggests a FAQ entry for hoary-live-using Windoze admins who want to mount their users filesystems...
[08:57] <sjmorgan> hrmm well the only thing i've changed since i installed this machine is sources.list
[08:58] <sjmorgan> so i'll try uncommenting unofficial repositories
[08:58] <mdz> lamont: I'd rather just implement the feature
[08:58] <lamont> mdz: I meant for hoary
[08:58] <sjmorgan> urgh, still gives an error
[08:59] <ogra> sjmorgan, did you sudo apt-get update ?
[09:00] <sjmorgan> jah
[09:02] <dholbach> lamont: i can do dirmngr as well (it's in universe)
[09:02] <mdz> sjmorgan: having unofficial repositories in sources.list can easily cause that sort of thing
[09:03] <sjmorgan> i uncommented all of them and it still doesn't work :/
[09:03] <mdz> sjmorgan: apt-get -o Debug::BuildDeps=true might be enlightening
[09:03] <mdz> sjmorgan: you want to _comment_ them, not _uncomment_ them
[09:04] <sjmorgan> sorry i meant commented
[09:04] <mdz> having packages installed on your system from unofficial repositories can do that as well
[09:04] <sjmorgan> or ununcommented :)
[09:06] <sjmorgan> ok that helps
[09:06] <sjmorgan> there's at least one -dev package with broken dependencies
[09:07] <sjmorgan> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[09:07] <sjmorgan>   libgtksourceview-dev: Depends: libgnomeprintui2.2-dev (>= 2.7) but it is not going to be installed
[09:07] <sjmorgan>                         Depends: libgtk2.0-dev (>= 2.4) but it is not going to be installed
[09:07] <sjmorgan> E: Broken packages
[09:07] <sjmorgan> or rather broken in my case
[09:07] <mdz> not unless it appeared in the past 2 hours
[09:07] <mdz> there are zero broken dependencies in hoary at the moment
[09:07] <mdz> (hoary/main, that is)
[09:07] <Kamion> (we have automatic checks for these things)
[09:07] <sjmorgan> yeah i didn't think there would be
[09:08] <Kamion> sjmorgan: have you tried 'apt-get -f install'?
[09:08] <Kamion> also, apt-get isn't very good at displaying what the underlying error really is
[09:08] <sjmorgan> doesn't seem to help
[09:08] <mdz> dholbach: only 132 in hoary/universe
[09:08] <sjmorgan> i tried -f build-dep as well
[09:08] <mdz> dholbach: from a visual scan, they seem to be mostly Debian kernel stuff which should be removed
[09:08] <Kamion> faced with that message, I would try 'apt-get install libgnomeprintui2.2-dev' and 'apt-get install libgtk2.0-dev', and iterate until it told me what the real problem was
[09:09] <lamont> dholbach: the only ones I saw as of 0733 this AM (london) were the ones I told you.  If there are others, they should be fixed too
[09:09] <dholbach> mdz: yes... i'll take care of that, but i hoped we were in EVEN better shape :-)
[09:09] <seb128> bbl dinner
[09:09] <mdz> sjmorgan: this can easily be caused by having packages on hold, or anything else which inhibits the normal behaviour of the problem resolver
[09:09] <dholbach> lamont: i'll update apt-file, just a sec
[09:10] <sjmorgan> ahh i know what the problem is
[09:10] <mdz> dholbach: I think you're in great shape
[09:10] <sjmorgan> you're right, it was a package i installed from an unofficial repository
[09:10] <sjmorgan> fontconfig
[09:10] <sjmorgan> libfontconfig
[09:10] <dholbach> mdz: maybe i'm looking to closely :-)
[09:10] <sjmorgan> now, how to fix it without breaking stuff :S
[09:11] <dholbach> :-)
[09:11] <pitti> dholbach: you can't be picky enough :-)
[09:11] <sjmorgan> is there a way to overwrite it with the older version?
[09:11] <sjmorgan> dpkg -fi maybe
[09:11] <mdz> sjmorgan: this is now officially off-topic ;-)
[09:11] <sjmorgan> --force-* rather
[09:12] <sjmorgan> :-(
[09:12] <dholbach> sjmorgan: /etc/apt/preferences and pinning will maybe help you there
[09:12] <sjmorgan> ok cool
[09:12] <sjmorgan> i'll see what i can do
[09:12] <mdz> dholbach: nooooo
[09:12] <sjmorgan> thanks for your help guys
[09:12] <dholbach> mdz: no?
[09:13] <Kamion> apt-get can downgrade or sync to a particular target release without the need for such complicated and easily-broken mechanisms as pinning
[09:14] <mdz> /etc/apt/preferences is like using explosives to open a jar
[09:14] <mdz> there are situations where it's the only way, but should otherwise be avoided at all costs ;-)
[09:14] <dholbach>  /me pipes innocently
[09:15] <sjmorgan> sudo apt-get install libfontconfig1=2.2.3-4ubuntu7 looks like the trick
[09:15] <dholbach> lamont: findutils and libmpfr-dev are in main, they should be taken care of - i'll do dirmngr
[09:15] <lamont> dholbach: what are you looking at to decide on those packages?
[09:16] <lamont> sounds like you're looking at the march 28 contents files, which haven't been updated yet....
[09:16] <lamont> (fetch the binaries and you'll probably find that the files aren't there anymore...)
[09:16] <dholbach> lamont: grmbl - i'll look through the buildlogs
[09:17] <lamont> oh. My bad - those files are from _January_ 28th
[09:17] <dholbach> lamont: there is no cronjob updating those?
[09:17] <mdz> elmo,dholbach: removing kernel-latest-2.4-i386 should resolve a bunch of unmet deps in universe; they're just Debian metapackages depending on kernels we don't have
[09:18] <dholbach> mdz,elmo: i talked to the kernel guys - they said they only wanted to have the newest debian kernels in - everything else should be purged - i'll have a look at the reverse depends, before making the morgue list and the sync list
[09:18] <lamont> thom: neato
[09:19] <Treenaks> thom: sed + awk magicks
[09:20] <dholbach> mdz,elmo: latest 2.4 and 2.6 for our supported archs to be exact
[09:21] <dholbach> lamont: is anything speaking against generating a Contents file in regular intervals?
[09:23] <Kamion> dholbach: it takes longer than cron.daily's allotted time - elmo said he was working on decoupling that
[09:23] <dholbach> Kamion: oh i see
[09:25] <thom> mdz: you'll love this
[09:26] <thom> mdz: the firefox homepage is localizable. every single mozilla-firefox-locale-foo package needs to be fixed
[09:26] <pitti> yay
[09:27] <jdub> thom: good lord...
[09:27] <pitti> fortunately most of them come from a single source package
[09:27] <pitti> so it shouldn't be as hard as it sounds at first
[09:28] <thom> pitti: cool
[09:28] <thom> pitti: i'm grabbing locale-all now to make sure i'm right
[09:28] <pitti> thom: IIRC the debs from -all don't even ship homepages
[09:29] <dholbach> lamont: you were right - we're all set
[09:29] <pitti> thom: although, the home pages could be in the xpi
[09:29] <thom> pitti: -en-gb did
[09:29] <thom> it's in the xpi
[09:29] <pitti> crap
[09:29] <pitti> that means all xpi files have to be changed
[09:29] <pitti> ?
[09:29] <thom> yup
[09:30] <herve> hi, the motu needs an autoconf/gtk/gnome magician to fix gcompris
[09:30] <pitti> and they aren't diffable, thus another orig.tar.gz, yay
[09:31] <mdz> thom: AWESOME
[09:35] <blahrus> hey, I think I have found a bit of a bug in ubuntu amd64
[09:35] <blahrus> I am unable to get and sound card to work.
[09:35] <ogra> mvo, ping.de thinks my mailserver is a dialup *g*
[09:35] <thom> mdz: i, um, knew you'd be thrilled
[09:35] <dholbach> ogra: he's still at sports, i think
[09:35] <blahrus> the audio test in ubuntu device databse plays the sound, nothing comes out, vol is up and not muted
[09:36] <ogra> dholbach, gah...
[09:36] <pitti> blahrus: all relevant audio channels are up? the gnome mixer might not display all
[09:36] <pitti> blahrus: "pidof esd" shows a number?
[09:36] <blahrus> let me check
[09:37] <blahrus> pitti: no number
[09:37] <pitti> blahrus: then esd has died for you
[09:37] <blahrus> hum . . .. 
[09:37] <pitti> blahrus: try to start "esd" from a shell
[09:37] <blahrus> pitti: how do is start it
[09:37] <blahrus> ahh nm :)
[09:37] <pitti> blahrus: just "esd"
[09:38] <blahrus> pid.c: daemo already ruinning
[09:38] <pitti> blahrus: if it exits immediately with an error, we are interested in seing the error
[09:38] <pitti> uh
[09:38] <astharot> aff
[09:38] <astharot> pitti: if you answered to my message I didn't read :P
[09:38] <pitti> blahrus: but still pidof esd doesn't show anything? odd
[09:38] <pitti> blahrus: "ps aux | grep esd"
[09:38] <lamont> mdz: ubuntu all done
[09:38] <lamont> mdz: kubunt done on i386, ppc, compressing on amd64
[09:38] <blahrus> pitti: just returns a blank line
[09:38] <pitti> astharot: I said that I never write uploaded names into USNs
[09:39] <astharot> ok
[09:39] <pitti> blahrus: rm -r /tmp/.esd
[09:39] <pitti> blahrus: then "esd" again
[09:39] <astharot> pitti: btw, I was just kidding!
[09:39] <blahrus> pid.c: daemo already ruinning
[09:40] <pitti> blahrus: ls -lda /tmp/.esd*
[09:40] <pitti> blahrus: btw, does it really print "ruinning"
[09:40] <pitti> :-)
[09:40] <pitti> blahrus: it's ruining your nerves, I suppose
[09:40] <blahrus> pitti: I removed that whole dir . . . . 
[09:41] <blahrus> pitti: yea my nerves are at end with this.
[09:41] <pitti> blahrus: it should be recreated on startup
[09:41] <lamont> back in a few
[09:41] <pitti> blahrus: in fact it's existence is probably the cause that it doesn't start again
[09:41] <blahrus> pitti: well the dir is gone, and esd wont start
[09:42] <blahrus> tired a killall, and it says no process
[09:42] <pitti> blahrus: do you have another user logged in atm?
[09:43] <blahrus> nope
[09:43] <blahrus> fresh boot
[09:43] <blahrus> just kinda freaked out when I opened the mixer
[09:43] <Kamion> yay, not offline for the evening after all
[09:44] <pitti> blahrus: sudo rm -r /tmp/.esd*     -> big hammer :-)
[09:44] <blahrus> k
[09:45] <blahrus> no such file or dir
[09:45] <pitti> blahrus: try rm ~/.esd_auth
[09:45] <pitti> blahrus: for me, esd startup is slightly more verbose ("/tmp/.esd/socket
[09:45] <pitti> This socket already exists indicating esd is already running.
[09:45] <pitti> "
[09:45] <pitti> )
[09:46] <blahrus> alright that removed
[09:46] <pitti> blahrus: it doesn't show you more than just "already running"?
[09:46] <blahrus> start esd again?
[09:46] <pitti> yeah
[09:46] <blahrus> says it already running
[09:46] <blahrus> would you like to log into the box?
[09:46] <blahrus> just a spare box I was messing with
[09:46] <pitti> blahrus: please /msg the complete output before
[09:47] <blahrus> I love ubuntu on my laptop thought I would give it a try
[09:47] <pitti> blahrus: I /msg you, it's a bit off-topic here
[09:47] <blahrus> thanks :)
[10:02] <thully> hi - I just noticed an issue with Hoary RC - I clicked on an "About Ubuntu" link somewhere (forget where, it wasn't on the System menu) and got redirected to file:///usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html
[10:02] <thully> which says "The Warty Warthog Release"
[10:03] <jdub> thully: that'll be fixed in the next u-a update
[10:03] <thully> OK
[10:05] <mdz> thom: at least they're all in one source package now, right?
[10:06] <mdz> lamont: wow, amd64 was last?
[10:07] <thom> mdz: yeah
[10:07] <Kamion> mdz: new install CDs done; they don't contain the last few uploads I did though (base-installer, base-config)
[10:07] <thom> i'm mangling some perl together
[10:07] <Kamion> but they should have everything else
[10:07] <mdz> Kamion: I was about to fire off live builds, or are you going to do it?
[10:08] <Kamion> mdz: I'll do it now
[10:08] <mdz> Kamion: ok, both ubuntu and kubuntu please
[10:08] <Kamion> are the new rootfses ready?
[10:08] <mdz> lamont said the last one was compressing 30 minutes ago
[10:08] <mdz> so I assume so
[10:08] <Kamion> Ubuntu started
[10:09] <dholbach> ha... have already 2 requests from (female) friends that want the april-1st-gdm-login-screen again :-))))
[10:10] <zyga> dholbach: ask them for a female picture in return and compose another login screen ;] 
[10:11] <lamont> kubuntu,ubuntu done x3 a while ago
[10:11] <mdz> Kamion: I'm doing amd64 and powerpc warty->hoary upgrade tests now (including the xorg-driver-synaptics upload I just did)
[10:18] <Kamion> Ubuntu daily live done, Kubuntu daily live building
[10:20] <mdz> /usr/share/gnome/help/stickynotes_applet/uk/stickynotes_applet.xml:204: element figure: validity error : ID stickynotes-using-left-fig already defined
[10:20] <mdz> scrollkeeper complained about that during upgrade; not sure if it's an issue for new installs
[10:20] <mdz> we really should just throw that output away; it's logged anyway
[10:22] <seb128> mdz: I'll fix it
[10:22] <mdz> seb128: thanks
[10:29] <thom> meh: perl -pi -e 's#(homePageDefault=).*#$1file:///usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html#;s#(browser.startup.homepage=).*#$1file:///usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html#;s#(browser.throbber.url=).*#$1file:///usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html#' browser-region/region.properties
[10:31] <Lain82> Hello, I want to know if a graphical configurator tool exist on Ubuntu ( sorry for my bad english ...)
[10:32] <kent> Lain82, well, this is a #ubuntu question.
[10:33] <Lain82> ok ! sorry, I ask it here because I want to know if a project exist ...
[10:40] <mdz> Kamion: new isos are crawling down (hoary-live-amd64 took 16:45)
[10:40] <mdz> I'll do a full test cycle when they arrive
[10:45] <thom> pitti: so, we don't have to reupload a new orig; *but* we uncondtionally change the homepage everytime for all the language packs
[10:45] <thom> is that a bad thing?
[10:46] <pitti> thom: change to a localized Ubuntu home page, or to the English one?
[10:46] <thom> well, we don't have localized home pages yet, do we?
[10:46] <pitti> we might have in the future
[10:46] <thom> sure
[10:46] <thom> at that point, we can do something fancier
[10:47] <pitti> for hoary, it's certainly fine
[10:47] <pitti> to hardcode the english one
[10:47] <thom> pitti: i'll send you the diff for debian/rules in a second
[10:47] <Kamion> mdz: ok, I probably won't be able to do any testing until tomorrow now
[10:48] <Kamion> mdz: Kubuntu daily install building for good measure
[10:53] <Kamion> god, that ntfsresize/udev interaction bug is creepy
[11:00] <Kamion>   263 publish-release
[11:03] <Kamion> Kubuntu daily install done
[11:03] <blahrus_> mdz, I tested all mixer levels
[11:04] <mdz> blahrus_: please follow up to bugzilla
[11:06] <blahrus_> done :)
[11:18] <mdz> Kamion, elmo: cdimage rsync is not up to date; it's showing me 20050329 for /current/
[11:18] <mdz> ]  rsync -aP --exclude '*ia64*' --exclude source rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/daily/current/ | grep 'iso$'
[11:18] <mdz> -rw-rw-r--   646940672 2005/03/29 17:49:05 hoary-install-amd64.iso
[11:18] <mdz> -rw-rw-r--   626288640 2005/03/29 17:59:34 hoary-install-i386.iso
[11:18] <mdz> -rw-rw-r--   659660800 2005/03/29 18:30:15 hoary-install-powerpc.iso
[11:19] <thom> mdz: i'm just about to upload mozilla-ffox-locales-all fyi
[11:19] <mdz> thom: sounds harmless enough
[11:19] <Kamion> mdz: WFM
[11:20] <mdz> maybe it's only one of the mirrors in the rotation?
[11:20] <mdz> yep
[11:20] <mdz> if I try a few times, I see both a 2005-03-29 set and a 2005-04-05 set
[11:20] <Kamion> yeah, 82.211.81.176 is out of date
[11:20] <thom> mdz: nod; firefox is uploaded also and that should be all the fixes we need to get locales nailed
[11:21] <mdz> 82.211.81.176 is the out-of-date one
[11:21] <Kamion> thom: what machine is 82.211.81.176?
[11:21] <mdz> that probably explains why my rsync took so long; my isos may have been a week old
[11:21] <Kamion> it is not any of the ones I'm currently triggering
[11:22] <elmo> Kamion: mcmurdo.ubuntu.com
[11:22] <Kamion> elmo: do I need to start triggering it?
[11:22] <elmo> please
[11:23] <elmo> I thought I'd asked you, sorry
[11:23] <Kamion> elmo: ok, done - FWIW the current list is syncproxy, mirnyy, frei, durville, mcmurdo, orcadas
[11:23] <mdz> stopping my rsync, since it's apparently overwriting half my isos with old ones
[11:23] <Kamion> well, done when baz finishes
[11:24] <elmo> Kamion: that matches /etc/rsyncd.conf on little, so should be good
[11:25] <mdz> Kamion: you're also triggering an update, right?
[11:26] <Kamion> elmo: bash: /home/archvsync/cdimagesync: No such file or directory
[11:26] <mdz> or trying to
[11:27] <elmo> details
[11:27] <elmo> fixed, syncing
[11:28] <Kamion> yup, seems ok
[11:28] <Kamion> (er, yeah, assuming two concurrent syncs won't break shit ...)
[11:29] <elmo> no, it's got locking
[11:35] <elmo> eh, why?
[11:36] <lamont> because I hate 48MB downloads
[11:36] <lamont> esp since l-r-m really only tends to change abi-versions, and not much else, it seems
[11:37] <elmo> why is the source so insanely large?
[11:37] <lamont> binary blobs of firmware for all the various binary-blob drivers, I believe
[11:37] <lamont> or maybe not firmware
[11:38] <lamont> maybe binary driver
[11:38] <thom> binary drivers
[11:39] <lamont> thom: yeah - forgot for a second that the firmware is in main
[11:40] <Kamion> thom: I trust the random capitalisation in "ubuNtu-artwork" in your m-f-locale-all changelog was a typo? :)
[11:41] <thom> Kamion: yeah
[11:41] <thom> :-)
[11:41] <pitti> thom: your own derivative of ubuntu? :-)
[11:41] <Kamion> or, rather, a typo confined to the changelog ... :)
[11:42] <thom> Kamion: indeed; tired eyes. the code itself is a-ok
[11:42] <thom> pitti: *g*
[11:53] <elmo> new archive.u.c in the mix, pls shout if anyone sees any problems
[11:55] <mvo> seb128: any news from the frensh translation? was it reviewed again or should I upload what I have now?
[11:56] <seb128> mvo: lemme check
[11:56] <seb128> hum, is there an issue with the debian mails ?
[11:57] <elmo> if your mail goes through gluck, yes.  if not, not that I'm aware of
[11:58] <seb128> I don't know how the @debian.org are handled by the debian machines
[11:59] <seb128> but it was working fine this afternoon, so I guess that's not due to gluck
[11:59] <seb128> mvo: there is a diff for the po here: http://lists.debian.org/debian-l10n-french/2005/04/msg00190.html
[11:59] <seb128> mvo: do you want me to merge it ?
[11:59] <seb128> 
[11:59] <doko> jbailey: ping
[11:59] <mvo> seb128: if it applies cleanly I can merge it 
[11:59] <mvo> seb128: does it look sane? my frensh is a bit "rusty" ;)
[12:00] <mdz> Apr  5 21:58:37 kernel: EXT2-fs warning: mounting fs with errors, running e2fsck is recommended
[12:00] <mdz> Apr  5 21:58:38 casper: Scanning for swap devices...
[12:00] <mdz> Apr  5 21:58:38 casper: Found /dev/hda4
[12:00] <mdz> Apr  5 21:58:38 casper: Using swap devices:  /dev/hda4
[12:00] <mdz> Apr  5 21:58:38 kernel: attempt to access beyond end of device
[12:00] <mdz> Apr  5 21:58:38 kernel: dm-1: rw=0, want=3932232, limit=3270656
[12:00] <mdz> Apr  5 21:58:38 kernel: EXT2-fs error (device dm-1): ext2_get_inode: unable to read inode block - inode=246022, block=1966115
[12:00] <seb128> don't relay on mail to join me so, I use my debian alias which seems to have issues
[12:00] <mdz> lamont: ^^ hoary-live-powerpc
[12:00] <Kamion> unfortunately all my @debian.org mail goes through gluck
[12:00] <mdz> lamont: could be a media problem, but please check the cloop output
[12:00] <seb128> mvo: yep, looks fine
[12:00] <jbailey> doko: here!
[12:00] <Kamion> hmm, klecker still seems to be set up to do bsmtp ...
[12:01] <elmo> kamion: I wouldn't try it
[12:01] <pitti> night, guys
[12:01] <elmo> unless you have an account there
[12:02] <elmo> gluck should be back soonish
[12:02] <Kamion> elmo: I do, as it happens, although it, er, could be argued to be an abuse I guess