/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/04/16/#ubuntu-motu.txt

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tritiumcrimsun, may I /msg you regarding my package review?12:35
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crimsuntritium: sure12:55
tritiumthanks12:56
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lamont-awaydholbach: note that we should not be adding epochs, since they're forever01:46
kokelamont: dholbach left the channel about an hour ago01:51
kokemaybe two01:51
lamontyeah01:51
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whiskersanywhere there is lots of basics here on ubuntu already....no real need for all that specialized gentoo stuff02:31
whiskersi even have blender working on this hoary02:32
whiskersbut i don't know how to use it02:32
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yojimbo-sanI'm packaging OpenVPN (v2, from source, there is no up-to-date Debian package) for internal usage here, and it strikes me that I should contribute this back to Universe somehow. I can't find any documentation on the wiki about what's supposed to be in a package, however - things like providing an /etc/defaults/ file (how to avoid clobbering this on an upgrade?), when to call update-rc.d (postinst?) and so on. Any pointers?03:37
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schweebyojimbo-san: have you read the Debian New Maintainer's Guide and the Debian Policy Manual?03:50
yojimbo-sanwell, I've read enough to be able to technically make  packages, but I'm not sure about the policy sorts of questions ...03:54
yojimbo-sanbut I suppose a more in-depth read wouldn't go amiss :-)03:55
schweebthe policy manual is pretty in depth03:56
schweebbest experience is just looking at other packages though...03:57
yojimbo-sanschweeb: will that cover things about how to upgrade gracefully and so on?03:57
schweebwell, in a simple package, graceful upgrades are zero work at all03:58
schweebin something like mysql or postgresql or something, you'd want to make scripts to be sure the existing database works fine03:59
schweeball of which is done via debconf scripts, or pre/post rm/inst scripts04:00
yojimbo-sanschweeb: thanks. In OpenVPN's example, I have to stop/start the existing server, which should be easy enough. Currently I'm shupping an /etc/defaults/openvpn file, which says "ENABLED=0" - the server needs to be manually configured initially. But I realise that I'll be clobbering this file if I upgrade, so perhaps that isn't the right thing to do. I'll do some more research :-)04:03
schweebyojimbo-san: it should end up marked as a config file, and it will ask if you want to replace with the maintainer version04:06
schweebIME04:06
yojimbo-sanmmm, OK, I'll have to find out how to identify config files within a package then. Possibly something in the control file, but I'm sure a proper RTFM will help :-)04:07
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ajmitch_hmm, I wonder what's so wrong with the package in sid?04:11
ajmitch_it's only 5 days old (openvpn)04:12
ajmitch_it is 1.99, which I'd assume to be a 2.0 prerelease04:12
schweeb*shrug*04:13
ajmitch_if he comes back, point that out - sid has rc18, rc20 was only released today ;)04:15
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lamontniall@evil.ie around?05:20
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StRhi  there.....   i'm a new ubuntu user...05:30
StRi come from slackware05:31
StRand I want to know if there is somehting like linuxpackages.net for ubuntu05:31
StRi mean, a site where anyone can post their new packages that where not found in the rep05:32
schweebStR: apt-get.org05:40
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dholbachgood morning!08:12
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tritiumGood morning, dholbach :)08:19
dholbachhey tritium :-)08:20
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dholbachStoneTable: i was just looking at libapache2-mod-ldap-userdir08:25
dholbachStoneTable: did you just take the debian version and compiled it for ubuntu?08:26
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dholbachcan somebody with an i386 do me a favor and compile  prj2make-sharp  from  http://thorin.battleaxe.net/~stone/hoary/  in a pbuilder?08:33
tritiumok08:34
dholbachthanks tritium08:34
dholbach<--- off into the shower08:34
tritiumsure08:34
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dholbachtritium: could you tell me if it builds and installs - that's all i need to know08:57
tritiumdholbach, okay, still working on it08:57
tritiumwill let you know08:57
dholbach:-)08:58
dholbachcould you all please that have still packages listed on UniversePythonTransitionTODO in state "Being transitioned" scan your /home/-directories for packages that are ready?09:18
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dholbachmorning doko09:28
dholbachbrb09:30
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dholbachhey azeem09:54
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dholbachsee you guys later10:05
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janiogra ping11:07
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janihey dholbach11:09
=== zendog says g'night ppl, and thx!
dholbachhey jani :-)11:10
janiI just uploaded my last python transage yesterday, only to see today that doko did the same about the same time :)11:12
janipymol11:12
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dholbach:-)11:12
azeemjani: oh, good11:12
azeemI came here to ask for that11:13
dholbachi'll go through the lists today and have a look which ones are just lying around... finished11:13
janiazeem, coincidence :)11:13
azeemgot another mail from a Ubuntu user yesterday asking me for a transition11:13
janiazeem I sent you a debdiff a couple of weeks ago, must have fallen through the cracks11:13
dokojani: sorry, yes, should have told you about ...11:14
azeemjani: what's your email address?11:15
janidoko, np :)11:15
janijani at email ro11:15
janibut it is banned by hoaryt-changes spam filter11:15
azeemI vaguely remember something, but I can't find a mail from you11:16
azeemanyway11:16
azeemdoko: can I safely put python-dev in my Build-Depends and ${python:Depends} in Depends? Would that just work on Debian and Ubuntu?11:16
dokoazeem: yes and no. usually Debian requires a versioned dependency on python-dev (>= 2.4), if you want to assure that it builds with 2.4. yes, it's nice to have something completely independent from the default python version.11:19
azeemdoko: I meant source compatibility. So a simple recompile would work on Debian and Ubuntu and yield packages for the respective default python version.  Right now, I Build-Depend on python2.3-dev.11:21
dokoyes, that should work.11:24
azeemthanks11:25
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tsengogra: oh, i dont think ive mentioned this. since im working full time with no ssh access to outside, i wont be making any meetings.12:30
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dholbachtseng: don't you think we'll be able to make appointments you'll be able to attend?12:35
Gervystarhi tseng. Any news about the mono packaging? Just in case you'll need some testing, give me a call.12:35
tsengdholbach: well, im here a few hours in the evening, but we go to dinner whenever12:35
tsengand alot of other people are asleep when i get home12:36
tsengGervystar: meebey (debian mono) is working out the upgrade issues12:36
Gervystartseng: fine12:36
dholbachi hope we'll be able to make a time you can make to12:37
dholbachi wouldn't mind getting up early12:37
tsengok we can talk about that later12:37
tsengthen.12:37
tsengi hope meebey gets to reviewing my mad dholbach style dash of updating all the related mono packages12:37
dholbachwere you talking about a specific meeting?12:39
tsengin general, the daytime meetings I cant do12:39
dholbacherm... what do you mean? shall i help out with uploading a bunch of packages?12:39
tsengno, meebey is debian mono12:40
tsenghe is finishing the core package12:40
tsengeverything else needs updated also, i sent him a slew of stuff12:40
dholbachwhat did you mean by "i hope meebey gets to reviewing my mad dholbach style dash of updating all the related mono packages"?12:41
tsengi did it like you12:41
tsenga dozen packages is one sitting12:41
dholbachah ok :-)12:41
dholbach<--- a bit confused by mvo's music ;-)12:42
tsenghah12:42
tsengbye dholbach12:43
dholbachbye tseng12:43
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dredgright01:25
dredgi dunno if anyone else got a copy of ubuntu priority list01:25
dredgbut diamond got a copy from henrik01:26
dredgavailable from: http://diamond.nonado.net/misc/UniversePriorityList.moin.txt01:26
dholbachyou want to merge them?01:26
dholbachor shall i do it?01:26
dredgi'm very busy i'm afrain dholbach01:26
dholbachok01:26
dredger, substitute correct spelling where appropriate01:27
StoneTabledholbach:  yes, libapache-mod-ldap-userdir was brought over from debian01:47
dholbachStoneTable: and just built on a hoary box?01:47
StoneTableyep01:48
dholbachStoneTable: we can just sync it :-)01:48
dholbachask elmo :-)01:48
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StoneTableokay, sweet01:48
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dholbachadd it to MOTUToSync, so we won't forget when he's not here01:49
dholbachi'll be out... having lunch with mvo - see you later01:50
StoneTablecya01:50
spaceyis malone actively used?01:53
spaceyi don't see much activity, expect new bugs (open) few a day01:54
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kokehi motus!02:43
kokewhat do you think about http://koke.amedias.org/2005/03/24/tintin-is-not-hig-compliant/ ??02:43
dredgkoke: actually i read that the other day02:44
dredgi agree02:44
dredgplus there are copyright issues with tintin, no?02:44
kokedredg: I guess so02:47
kokeI'm remembering... tseng told me jimmac had done some icons for that02:48
kokebut they seem to were lost02:48
dredgah. pity that02:48
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Treenaks" MERGE ON PAIN OF DEATH " ??? sounds nice ;)02:58
dredgand in the context of dotdeb stuff, highly accurate :)03:01
Treenaksurggh03:02
dredg:)03:03
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bddebianGood morning03:06
kokethe icons aren't in the archive :/03:06
kokehttp://web.archive.org/web/20050405060538/http://jimmac.musichall.cz/weblog.php//Artwork/LowresTomboy.php03:06
dredgtried mailing jimmac?03:07
dredg--- [jimmac]  idle 00:15:30, signon: Tue Apr  5 13:51:3603:07
dredghe's around03:07
dredg:)03:07
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kokedredg: I'll try later03:17
kokehave to go now03:17
kokeI like the topic of #gimp : "Don't ask to ask, just ask" :D03:17
dredgnice :)03:17
Treenakskoke: and it doesnt' work, I guess03:18
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tritiumGood morning!  :)03:26
bddebianHeya tritium03:28
tritiumHi bddebian03:28
crimsunmorning :)03:31
bddebianHello crimsun03:31
bddebianbbiab03:31
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janihey ogra04:14
ograhi jani04:14
janihwdb-client question04:14
ograyop04:14
janiIf I keep pushing the forward button04:14
janiwithout moving the mouse from it04:14
janiit does not get the click04:14
ograit doesnt take zhe click ?04:15
janionly if I move the mouse from that button then back04:15
ograthats a gtk regression...04:15
janibut pressing return key works04:15
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ograyup04:15
janiwith the key I can go on04:15
janiso you know about this?04:15
ograit sadly dissaperaed on my system, so i cant reproduce it anymore....but i will sort it in one or the other way before release04:16
ograyup04:16
janiok then04:16
ograits an very old gtk bug04:16
janisuch a fundamental thing though....04:16
janiso not only pygtk?04:17
ograi guess if i dont set the focus on the button te behavior will go away, but the ease of the enter key will be lost too04:17
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janiI dd remove grab_focus lines and blindly played around with sensitivity(true/false) with similar results04:18
ograso currently i'm weighting out if keyboard or mouse should be preferred....i'm guessing the majority will use the mouse04:18
janiog course it was my first look at pygtk code so that doesn't mean a thing :)04:18
ograi also had it in c gtk apps, so its more fundamental...04:19
ograsynaptic once had this bug too (c++)04:19
dholbachregexxer (c++) too04:20
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janiyes mouse of course...I was doing the oh so common in wondows world04:26
janinext->next->next wizard stuff04:26
whiskerstritium, thanks a lot for the octave example04:28
tritiumwhiskers, you're welcome ;)04:29
tritiumIt's very simple, but it'll get you started, and familiar with the syntax04:29
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whiskersoctave is incredible....160megs of binaries to say 2 + 2 =404:44
tritiumwhiskers, it can do a bit more ;)04:44
whiskerstritium, yes...i am sure it can...i was just making a point04:45
whiskersit is like oo...hundreds of megs of binaries to write a small memo04:45
whiskersthis stuff is fun04:46
tritiumIt's rather powerful, actually.04:46
whiskersit reminds me of vcr's....they had hundreds of buttons that no one could figure out...and all they wanted to do was play some tapes04:48
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whiskersdid you ever try to read a 6000 page vcr manual to figure out how to play a tape05:02
whiskersthese country people in Texas cannot understand any of it...it may as well have been written in a foreign language05:03
bddebianPUsh in tape.  Push play..  Sheesh :-)05:03
whiskersbddebian, but the play button is one of several hundred ...you will never find it05:04
tritiumI'm from New Mexico, just across the TX border, whiskers05:04
bddebianwhiskers: Bah, it just looks like a little arrow05:04
bddebianStop is a square05:04
bddebianPause i ||05:04
bddebianRewind <<05:04
bddebianFast Forward >>05:04
tritiumwhiskers, so are you intending on using octave for your job?05:06
whiskerstritium, no..i don't have a job...i am insane05:07
tritiumyou're silly05:08
whiskerstritium, well..there are just many things i don't understand05:08
tritiumthat doesn't make you insane, though :)05:08
whiskersbut anyway i like it that ubuntu is the simplest of distros05:09
tritiumdholbach, was your time with mvo productive?05:13
dholbachtritium: i'm still there :-)05:20
whiskersnot to be an extremist by any means....but there is something to be said for "Simplicity"05:21
spaceysimple in terms voor the end user you mean05:23
whiskersspacey, yes05:23
whiskersspacey, and not absolutely...as an extreme position...but should be part of the consideration05:24
spaceyyeah05:24
tritiumdholbach, oh :)05:28
lamontdholbach: or rather all y'all05:32
lamontpool/universe/s/speech-dispatcher/speech-dispatcher_0.5-2_amd64.deb:./usr/share/info/dir.old.gz05:32
lamontsimplest solution is to rm -f dir.old.gz (and I think dir.gz) in the build target of debian/rules.05:33
lamontthat's the only one in amd64 land, still crunching through the other architectures05:33
dholbachok, will do05:33
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dholbachgtk-engine still on my list, since seb128 told me it was gtk2-engines (in main) that needed to be fixed05:34
lamont<fabbione> does anybody remember what triggered the  trying to overwrite `/usr/share/info/dir.old.gz', which is also in package texinfo problem?05:35
lamont<elmo> oh, god, it's dpkg stupidity05:35
lamont<elmo> dpkg install-info vs. gnu install-info05:35
lamont<elmo> dpkg changed options, and it broke old automake scripts05:35
lamont<elmo> easiest solution is to just rm -f the file in debian/rules build - alternately, update all the autocrap05:35
lamontdholbach: ok.05:36
lamonti386 universe is dir.old.gz-clean05:36
lamont(note that arch:all is the last one scanned...)05:36
dholbachlamont: but he wouldnt fix it for hoary, so i have to fix the universe crach temporarily05:38
dholbachs/crach/crack05:38
lamontah, ok05:40
lamontdholbach: and then reverse it when seb128 fixes main?05:40
lamontin breezy, that is05:40
dholbachyes... main and debian05:40
schweebmmm more crack05:41
dholbachlamont: hrm... i can't see and /usr/share/info/dir*gz to be installed by any of the speech-dispatcher packages (dpkg -c)05:45
lamontright05:45
lamontjust rm -f it at the end of the build target05:46
lamontit's a side effect of automake and dpkg interaction05:46
dholbachoh i see05:46
dholbachfunny05:46
lamontsee bugs.debian.org/21476905:46
dholbachthanks05:46
lamontnp05:49
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lamontDir.old.gz.universe:pool/universe/e/eb/eb-doc_3.3.2-4_all.deb:./usr/share/info/dir.old.gz05:54
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lamontdholbach: those two are all06:17
dholbachlamont: thanks, will take care06:17
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Treenakshmm @ dmesg: ACPI: Please implement acpi_video_bus_ROM_seq_show06:41
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dholbachpacking my stuff - see you later06:55
dholbachlamont: speech-distaster uploaded06:55
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hervehi07:25
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motaboyhi all!07:51
bddebianHello motaboy07:51
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hervesomeone knows how to use libtool?08:29
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hervehi Daniel!08:32
dholbachhey herv08:32
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hervenewest gcompris doesn't compile either08:54
hervegoodbye it :-)08:54
tritiumdholbach, your fast-user-switch-applet link on MOTUNewPackages needs fixing.  Want me to do it?08:58
dholbachoh... didn't notice, yeah.. thank you08:58
tritiumsure08:59
dholbachdon't know if you read it over at #ubuntu-devel:09:25
dholbach<mdz> (hoary/main, that is)09:25
dholbach* dholbach nods sighing deeply towards mdz09:25
dholbach<mdz> dholbach: only 132 in hoary/universe09:25
dholbach<mdz> dholbach: from a visual scan, they seem to be mostly Debian kernel stuff which should be removed09:25
dholbach<dholbach> mdz: yes... i'll take care of that, but i hoped we were in EVEN better shape :-)09:25
dholbach<mdz> dholbach: I think you're in great shape09:25
dholbach<dholbach> mdz: maybe i'm looking to closely :-)09:25
dholbach* mdz bows rigidly09:25
dholbach<dholbach> :-)09:25
dholbachthat goes out to all of us09:25
herve:-D09:26
hervehonestly, I thought the shape of universe was worst09:26
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hervehouba !09:29
dholbach:-)09:29
hervedholbach, don't pay attention :-)09:30
encolpehop hop09:33
herveI wanted to update the prority list page10:00
hervethen I wonder,10:01
herveis it still useful?10:01
crimsunyes10:03
hervehere you go!10:03
herveI go, I mean :-)10:03
crimsun:)10:05
dholbachherve: it's building at my place10:07
hervedholbach, gcompris?10:07
dholbachyes10:08
dholbachoh no... broke off10:08
hervemuhahaha!10:08
hervesorry :-p10:08
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hervethere's a justice!10:08
hervegaaa10:09
herveI can't find xfcalendar in the changes list10:09
dholbach;-)10:09
hervebut a ubuntu1 one was uploaded a built all fine10:09
hervewhat to believe...10:09
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thullyhi - has anyone here tried out netapplet from universe - I have a strange problem with it10:10
thullyit crashes on almost every logout10:10
tritiumthully, same thing happened to me.10:10
hervesorry I don't use it10:10
thullytritium: what do you suggest?  I need to be able to get on/off wi-fi10:11
thullyI may just leave DHCP on auto and let it timeout on boot if I'm not at a hotspot10:12
tritiumthully, I'm just using the Network Monitor applet these days10:12
thullythat would be the one that appears by default10:12
thullycorrect?10:12
tritiumyes10:12
thullydo you use wi-fi?  if so, how do you connect/disconnect (or do you use the lazy auto-DHCP method I mentioned above)10:13
tritiumI have removable wireless card, so I can control when I connect/disconnect ;)10:13
herveifup/ifdown :-)10:13
thullyIs there much danger in setting wireless to auto-DHCP?  It will time out on boot if no APs are found, but I could just hibernate each boot...10:14
tritiumI don't know if tools such as laptop-net are any good, but there are a few available.10:14
schweeblaptop-net is nice10:17
schweebquite nice.10:17
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schweebbut it's often overkill for what most people want10:18
tritiumthat's good to konw10:18
motaboydholbach: Hi! sorry If I'm disturbing you but can you readd you comment on abakus on MOTUNewPackages wiki page? (now the man page is there) :D thanks.10:19
dholbachis it gone?10:19
motaboydholbach: yes, with the wiki reset.10:20
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dholbach*grmbl*10:20
dholbachmotaboy: wrote a new one10:21
motaboydholbach: thanks!10:21
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dholbachde rien10:22
=== motaboy is searching for a third review... :P
hervelamont, ping10:23
lamontherve: yo10:23
hervehi10:23
herveis this error supposed to happen: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/libx/libxerces2-java/2.6.2-1/libxerces2-java_2.6.2-1_20040818-0802-amd64-failed10:23
lamontyep10:24
lamontwell, except on i386 machines ;-)10:24
lamontmind you, I wish it didn't, but I understand why it does.10:24
lamontand it's apparently rather complicated and sorta pointless to fix it10:25
hervenothing to fix in the package itself?10:25
lamontnone whatsoever10:25
herveok, thanks!10:25
lamontunbuilt packages that are arch-all-only get built on i386 only, but show up in the w-b database as needs-build for all architectures until i386 gets around to it.10:25
lamontby which time, it's likely that the other 3 have tried and failed10:25
hervethey did10:26
herveI think I have a simple one to fix10:30
herveif anyone want to try a quick&dirty10:30
herve(it's java, better be warned ;-))10:30
hervelamont, looking at http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/g/gtkam/0.1.12-2.1/gtkam_0.1.12-2.1_20050329-2325-powerpc-given-back10:31
hervecould you give it a push please?10:31
tritiumajmitch, did you ever have a chance to review my packages?10:32
herveby the way, are those xfce packages all transitioned?10:32
lamontgiven-back==> already in needs-build10:33
herveargh sorry10:33
herveI forgot the whole workflow10:33
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hervegood night all!10:55
dholbachbye herve10:56
dholbachsleep tight10:56
encolpeah young men are so tired...10:57
herveI take it as irony :-)10:57
encolpe;)10:58
herveI just go read, but shhh... :-)10:58
=== dredg yawns
dredghey! :)10:59
bddebianHeya dredg10:59
encolpeherve: last french-translated Pratchett ?10:59
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dredgwow it's doomed10:59
herveencolpe, former lanfeust mag :-p11:00
herveokay, latest touch to the wiki11:01
herve++11:01
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dholbachhey koke!11:04
kokehi!11:04
tsenghi11:20
ManuelJhi koke11:22
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