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[12:35] <tritium> crimsun, may I /msg you regarding my package review?
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[12:55] <crimsun> tritium: sure
[12:56] <tritium> thanks
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[01:46] <lamont-away> dholbach: note that we should not be adding epochs, since they're forever
[01:51] <koke> lamont: dholbach left the channel about an hour ago
[01:51] <koke> maybe two
[01:51] <lamont> yeah
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[02:31] <whiskers> anywhere there is lots of basics here on ubuntu already....no real need for all that specialized gentoo stuff
[02:32] <whiskers> i even have blender working on this hoary
[02:32] <whiskers> but i don't know how to use it
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[03:37] <yojimbo-san> I'm packaging OpenVPN (v2, from source, there is no up-to-date Debian package) for internal usage here, and it strikes me that I should contribute this back to Universe somehow. I can't find any documentation on the wiki about what's supposed to be in a package, however - things like providing an /etc/defaults/ file (how to avoid clobbering this on an upgrade?), when to call update-rc.d (postinst?) and so on. Any pointers?
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[03:50] <schweeb> yojimbo-san: have you read the Debian New Maintainer's Guide and the Debian Policy Manual?
[03:54] <yojimbo-san> well, I've read enough to be able to technically make  packages, but I'm not sure about the policy sorts of questions ...
[03:55] <yojimbo-san> but I suppose a more in-depth read wouldn't go amiss :-)
[03:56] <schweeb> the policy manual is pretty in depth
[03:57] <schweeb> best experience is just looking at other packages though...
[03:57] <yojimbo-san> schweeb: will that cover things about how to upgrade gracefully and so on?
[03:58] <schweeb> well, in a simple package, graceful upgrades are zero work at all
[03:59] <schweeb> in something like mysql or postgresql or something, you'd want to make scripts to be sure the existing database works fine
[04:00] <schweeb> all of which is done via debconf scripts, or pre/post rm/inst scripts
[04:03] <yojimbo-san> schweeb: thanks. In OpenVPN's example, I have to stop/start the existing server, which should be easy enough. Currently I'm shupping an /etc/defaults/openvpn file, which says "ENABLED=0" - the server needs to be manually configured initially. But I realise that I'll be clobbering this file if I upgrade, so perhaps that isn't the right thing to do. I'll do some more research :-)
[04:06] <schweeb> yojimbo-san: it should end up marked as a config file, and it will ask if you want to replace with the maintainer version
[04:06] <schweeb> IME
[04:07] <yojimbo-san> mmm, OK, I'll have to find out how to identify config files within a package then. Possibly something in the control file, but I'm sure a proper RTFM will help :-)
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[04:11] <ajmitch_> hmm, I wonder what's so wrong with the package in sid?
[04:12] <ajmitch_> it's only 5 days old (openvpn)
[04:12] <ajmitch_> it is 1.99, which I'd assume to be a 2.0 prerelease
[04:13] <schweeb> *shrug*
[04:15] <ajmitch_> if he comes back, point that out - sid has rc18, rc20 was only released today ;)
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[05:20] <lamont> niall@evil.ie around?
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[05:30] <StR> hi  there.....   i'm a new ubuntu user...
[05:31] <StR> i come from slackware
[05:31] <StR> and I want to know if there is somehting like linuxpackages.net for ubuntu
[05:32] <StR> i mean, a site where anyone can post their new packages that where not found in the rep
[05:40] <schweeb> StR: apt-get.org
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[08:12] <dholbach> good morning!
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[08:19] <tritium> Good morning, dholbach :)
[08:20] <dholbach> hey tritium :-)
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[08:25] <dholbach> StoneTable: i was just looking at libapache2-mod-ldap-userdir
[08:26] <dholbach> StoneTable: did you just take the debian version and compiled it for ubuntu?
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[08:33] <dholbach> can somebody with an i386 do me a favor and compile  prj2make-sharp  from  http://thorin.battleaxe.net/~stone/hoary/  in a pbuilder?
[08:34] <tritium> ok
[08:34] <dholbach> thanks tritium
[08:34] <dholbach> <--- off into the shower
[08:34] <tritium> sure
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[08:57] <dholbach> tritium: could you tell me if it builds and installs - that's all i need to know
[08:57] <tritium> dholbach, okay, still working on it
[08:57] <tritium> will let you know
[08:58] <dholbach> :-)
[09:18] <dholbach> could you all please that have still packages listed on UniversePythonTransitionTODO in state "Being transitioned" scan your /home/-directories for packages that are ready?
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[09:28] <dholbach> morning doko
[09:30] <dholbach> brb
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[09:54] <dholbach> hey azeem
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[10:05] <dholbach> see you guys later
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[11:07] <jani> ogra ping
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[11:09] <jani> hey dholbach
=== zendog says g'night ppl, and thx!
[11:10] <dholbach> hey jani :-)
[11:12] <jani> I just uploaded my last python transage yesterday, only to see today that doko did the same about the same time :)
[11:12] <jani> pymol
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[11:12] <dholbach> :-)
[11:12] <azeem> jani: oh, good
[11:13] <azeem> I came here to ask for that
[11:13] <dholbach> i'll go through the lists today and have a look which ones are just lying around... finished
[11:13] <jani> azeem, coincidence :)
[11:13] <azeem> got another mail from a Ubuntu user yesterday asking me for a transition
[11:13] <jani> azeem I sent you a debdiff a couple of weeks ago, must have fallen through the cracks
[11:14] <doko> jani: sorry, yes, should have told you about ...
[11:15] <azeem> jani: what's your email address?
[11:15] <jani> doko, np :)
[11:15] <jani> jani at email ro
[11:15] <jani> but it is banned by hoaryt-changes spam filter
[11:16] <azeem> I vaguely remember something, but I can't find a mail from you
[11:16] <azeem> anyway
[11:16] <azeem> doko: can I safely put python-dev in my Build-Depends and ${python:Depends} in Depends? Would that just work on Debian and Ubuntu?
[11:19] <doko> azeem: yes and no. usually Debian requires a versioned dependency on python-dev (>= 2.4), if you want to assure that it builds with 2.4. yes, it's nice to have something completely independent from the default python version.
[11:21] <azeem> doko: I meant source compatibility. So a simple recompile would work on Debian and Ubuntu and yield packages for the respective default python version.  Right now, I Build-Depend on python2.3-dev.
[11:24] <doko> yes, that should work.
[11:25] <azeem> thanks
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[12:30] <tseng> ogra: oh, i dont think ive mentioned this. since im working full time with no ssh access to outside, i wont be making any meetings.
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[12:35] <dholbach> tseng: don't you think we'll be able to make appointments you'll be able to attend?
[12:35] <Gervystar> hi tseng. Any news about the mono packaging? Just in case you'll need some testing, give me a call.
[12:35] <tseng> dholbach: well, im here a few hours in the evening, but we go to dinner whenever
[12:36] <tseng> and alot of other people are asleep when i get home
[12:36] <tseng> Gervystar: meebey (debian mono) is working out the upgrade issues
[12:36] <Gervystar> tseng: fine
[12:37] <dholbach> i hope we'll be able to make a time you can make to
[12:37] <dholbach> i wouldn't mind getting up early
[12:37] <tseng> ok we can talk about that later
[12:37] <tseng> then.
[12:37] <tseng> i hope meebey gets to reviewing my mad dholbach style dash of updating all the related mono packages
[12:39] <dholbach> were you talking about a specific meeting?
[12:39] <tseng> in general, the daytime meetings I cant do
[12:39] <dholbach> erm... what do you mean? shall i help out with uploading a bunch of packages?
[12:40] <tseng> no, meebey is debian mono
[12:40] <tseng> he is finishing the core package
[12:40] <tseng> everything else needs updated also, i sent him a slew of stuff
[12:41] <dholbach> what did you mean by "i hope meebey gets to reviewing my mad dholbach style dash of updating all the related mono packages"?
[12:41] <tseng> i did it like you
[12:41] <tseng> a dozen packages is one sitting
[12:41] <dholbach> ah ok :-)
[12:42] <dholbach> <--- a bit confused by mvo's music ;-)
[12:42] <tseng> hah
[12:43] <tseng> bye dholbach
[12:43] <dholbach> bye tseng
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[01:25] <dredg> right
[01:25] <dredg> i dunno if anyone else got a copy of ubuntu priority list
[01:26] <dredg> but diamond got a copy from henrik
[01:26] <dredg> available from: http://diamond.nonado.net/misc/UniversePriorityList.moin.txt
[01:26] <dholbach> you want to merge them?
[01:26] <dholbach> or shall i do it?
[01:26] <dredg> i'm very busy i'm afrain dholbach
[01:26] <dholbach> ok
[01:27] <dredg> er, substitute correct spelling where appropriate
[01:47] <StoneTable> dholbach:  yes, libapache-mod-ldap-userdir was brought over from debian
[01:47] <dholbach> StoneTable: and just built on a hoary box?
[01:48] <StoneTable> yep
[01:48] <dholbach> StoneTable: we can just sync it :-)
[01:48] <dholbach> ask elmo :-)
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[01:48] <StoneTable> okay, sweet
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[01:49] <dholbach> add it to MOTUToSync, so we won't forget when he's not here
[01:50] <dholbach> i'll be out... having lunch with mvo - see you later
[01:50] <StoneTable> cya
[01:53] <spacey> is malone actively used?
[01:54] <spacey> i don't see much activity, expect new bugs (open) few a day
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[02:43] <koke> hi motus!
[02:43] <koke> what do you think about http://koke.amedias.org/2005/03/24/tintin-is-not-hig-compliant/ ??
[02:44] <dredg> koke: actually i read that the other day
[02:44] <dredg> i agree
[02:44] <dredg> plus there are copyright issues with tintin, no?
[02:47] <koke> dredg: I guess so
[02:48] <koke> I'm remembering... tseng told me jimmac had done some icons for that
[02:48] <koke> but they seem to were lost
[02:48] <dredg> ah. pity that
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[02:58] <Treenaks> " MERGE ON PAIN OF DEATH " ??? sounds nice ;)
[03:01] <dredg> and in the context of dotdeb stuff, highly accurate :)
[03:02] <Treenaks> urggh
[03:03] <dredg> :)
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[03:06] <bddebian> Good morning
[03:06] <koke> the icons aren't in the archive :/
[03:06] <koke> http://web.archive.org/web/20050405060538/http://jimmac.musichall.cz/weblog.php//Artwork/LowresTomboy.php
[03:07] <dredg> tried mailing jimmac?
[03:07] <dredg> --- [jimmac]  idle 00:15:30, signon: Tue Apr  5 13:51:36
[03:07] <dredg> he's around
[03:07] <dredg> :)
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[03:17] <koke> dredg: I'll try later
[03:17] <koke> have to go now
[03:17] <koke> I like the topic of #gimp : "Don't ask to ask, just ask" :D
[03:17] <dredg> nice :)
[03:18] <Treenaks> koke: and it doesnt' work, I guess
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[03:26] <tritium> Good morning!  :)
[03:28] <bddebian> Heya tritium
[03:28] <tritium> Hi bddebian
[03:31] <crimsun> morning :)
[03:31] <bddebian> Hello crimsun
[03:31] <bddebian> bbiab
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[04:14] <jani> hey ogra
[04:14] <ogra> hi jani
[04:14] <jani> hwdb-client question
[04:14] <ogra> yop
[04:14] <jani> If I keep pushing the forward button
[04:14] <jani> without moving the mouse from it
[04:14] <jani> it does not get the click
[04:15] <ogra> it doesnt take zhe click ?
[04:15] <jani> only if I move the mouse from that button then back
[04:15] <ogra> thats a gtk regression...
[04:15] <jani> but pressing return key works
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[04:15] <ogra> yup
[04:15] <jani> with the key I can go on
[04:15] <jani> so you know about this?
[04:16] <ogra> it sadly dissaperaed on my system, so i cant reproduce it anymore....but i will sort it in one or the other way before release
[04:16] <ogra> yup
[04:16] <jani> ok then
[04:16] <ogra> its an very old gtk bug
[04:16] <jani> such a fundamental thing though....
[04:17] <jani> so not only pygtk?
[04:17] <ogra> i guess if i dont set the focus on the button te behavior will go away, but the ease of the enter key will be lost too
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[04:18] <jani> I dd remove grab_focus lines and blindly played around with sensitivity(true/false) with similar results
[04:18] <ogra> so currently i'm weighting out if keyboard or mouse should be preferred....i'm guessing the majority will use the mouse
[04:18] <jani> og course it was my first look at pygtk code so that doesn't mean a thing :)
[04:19] <ogra> i also had it in c gtk apps, so its more fundamental...
[04:19] <ogra> synaptic once had this bug too (c++)
[04:20] <dholbach> regexxer (c++) too
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[04:26] <jani> yes mouse of course...I was doing the oh so common in wondows world
[04:26] <jani> next->next->next wizard stuff
[04:28] <whiskers> tritium, thanks a lot for the octave example
[04:29] <tritium> whiskers, you're welcome ;)
[04:29] <tritium> It's very simple, but it'll get you started, and familiar with the syntax
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[04:44] <whiskers> octave is incredible....160megs of binaries to say 2 + 2 =4
[04:44] <tritium> whiskers, it can do a bit more ;)
[04:45] <whiskers> tritium, yes...i am sure it can...i was just making a point
[04:45] <whiskers> it is like oo...hundreds of megs of binaries to write a small memo
[04:46] <whiskers> this stuff is fun
[04:46] <tritium> It's rather powerful, actually.
[04:48] <whiskers> it reminds me of vcr's....they had hundreds of buttons that no one could figure out...and all they wanted to do was play some tapes
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[05:02] <whiskers> did you ever try to read a 6000 page vcr manual to figure out how to play a tape
[05:03] <whiskers> these country people in Texas cannot understand any of it...it may as well have been written in a foreign language
[05:03] <bddebian> PUsh in tape.  Push play..  Sheesh :-)
[05:04] <whiskers> bddebian, but the play button is one of several hundred ...you will never find it
[05:04] <tritium> I'm from New Mexico, just across the TX border, whiskers
[05:04] <bddebian> whiskers: Bah, it just looks like a little arrow
[05:04] <bddebian> Stop is a square
[05:04] <bddebian> Pause i ||
[05:04] <bddebian> Rewind <<
[05:04] <bddebian> Fast Forward >>
[05:06] <tritium> whiskers, so are you intending on using octave for your job?
[05:07] <whiskers> tritium, no..i don't have a job...i am insane
[05:08] <tritium> you're silly
[05:08] <whiskers> tritium, well..there are just many things i don't understand
[05:08] <tritium> that doesn't make you insane, though :)
[05:09] <whiskers> but anyway i like it that ubuntu is the simplest of distros
[05:13] <tritium> dholbach, was your time with mvo productive?
[05:20] <dholbach> tritium: i'm still there :-)
[05:21] <whiskers> not to be an extremist by any means....but there is something to be said for "Simplicity"
[05:23] <spacey> simple in terms voor the end user you mean
[05:23] <whiskers> spacey, yes
[05:24] <whiskers> spacey, and not absolutely...as an extreme position...but should be part of the consideration
[05:24] <spacey> yeah
[05:28] <tritium> dholbach, oh :)
[05:32] <lamont> dholbach: or rather all y'all
[05:32] <lamont> pool/universe/s/speech-dispatcher/speech-dispatcher_0.5-2_amd64.deb:./usr/share/info/dir.old.gz
[05:33] <lamont> simplest solution is to rm -f dir.old.gz (and I think dir.gz) in the build target of debian/rules.
[05:33] <lamont> that's the only one in amd64 land, still crunching through the other architectures
[05:33] <dholbach> ok, will do
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[05:34] <dholbach> gtk-engine still on my list, since seb128 told me it was gtk2-engines (in main) that needed to be fixed
[05:35] <lamont> <fabbione> does anybody remember what triggered the  trying to overwrite `/usr/share/info/dir.old.gz', which is also in package texinfo problem?
[05:35] <lamont> <elmo> oh, god, it's dpkg stupidity
[05:35] <lamont> <elmo> dpkg install-info vs. gnu install-info
[05:35] <lamont> <elmo> dpkg changed options, and it broke old automake scripts
[05:35] <lamont> <elmo> easiest solution is to just rm -f the file in debian/rules build - alternately, update all the autocrap
[05:36] <lamont> dholbach: ok.
[05:36] <lamont> i386 universe is dir.old.gz-clean
[05:36] <lamont> (note that arch:all is the last one scanned...)
[05:38] <dholbach> lamont: but he wouldnt fix it for hoary, so i have to fix the universe crach temporarily
[05:38] <dholbach> s/crach/crack
[05:40] <lamont> ah, ok
[05:40] <lamont> dholbach: and then reverse it when seb128 fixes main?
[05:40] <lamont> in breezy, that is
[05:40] <dholbach> yes... main and debian
[05:41] <schweeb> mmm more crack
[05:45] <dholbach> lamont: hrm... i can't see and /usr/share/info/dir*gz to be installed by any of the speech-dispatcher packages (dpkg -c)
[05:45] <lamont> right
[05:46] <lamont> just rm -f it at the end of the build target
[05:46] <lamont> it's a side effect of automake and dpkg interaction
[05:46] <dholbach> oh i see
[05:46] <dholbach> funny
[05:46] <lamont> see bugs.debian.org/214769
[05:46] <dholbach> thanks
[05:49] <lamont> np
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[05:54] <lamont> Dir.old.gz.universe:pool/universe/e/eb/eb-doc_3.3.2-4_all.deb:./usr/share/info/dir.old.gz
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[06:17] <lamont> dholbach: those two are all
[06:17] <dholbach> lamont: thanks, will take care
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[06:41] <Treenaks> hmm @ dmesg: ACPI: Please implement acpi_video_bus_ROM_seq_show
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[06:55] <dholbach> packing my stuff - see you later
[06:55] <dholbach> lamont: speech-distaster uploaded
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[07:25] <herve> hi
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[07:51] <motaboy> hi all!
[07:51] <bddebian> Hello motaboy
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[08:29] <herve> someone knows how to use libtool?
=== Treenaks points at keybuk
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[08:32] <herve> hi Daniel!
[08:32] <dholbach> hey herv
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[08:54] <herve> newest gcompris doesn't compile either
[08:54] <herve> goodbye it :-)
[08:58] <tritium> dholbach, your fast-user-switch-applet link on MOTUNewPackages needs fixing.  Want me to do it?
[08:58] <dholbach> oh... didn't notice, yeah.. thank you
[08:59] <tritium> sure
[09:25] <dholbach> don't know if you read it over at #ubuntu-devel:
[09:25] <dholbach> <mdz> (hoary/main, that is)
[09:25] <dholbach> * dholbach nods sighing deeply towards mdz
[09:25] <dholbach> <mdz> dholbach: only 132 in hoary/universe
[09:25] <dholbach> <mdz> dholbach: from a visual scan, they seem to be mostly Debian kernel stuff which should be removed
[09:25] <dholbach> <dholbach> mdz: yes... i'll take care of that, but i hoped we were in EVEN better shape :-)
[09:25] <dholbach> <mdz> dholbach: I think you're in great shape
[09:25] <dholbach> <dholbach> mdz: maybe i'm looking to closely :-)
[09:25] <dholbach> * mdz bows rigidly
[09:25] <dholbach> <dholbach> :-)
[09:25] <dholbach> that goes out to all of us
[09:26] <herve> :-D
[09:26] <herve> honestly, I thought the shape of universe was worst
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[09:29] <herve> houba !
[09:29] <dholbach> :-)
[09:30] <herve> dholbach, don't pay attention :-)
[09:33] <encolpe> hop hop
[10:00] <herve> I wanted to update the prority list page
[10:01] <herve> then I wonder,
[10:01] <herve> is it still useful?
[10:03] <crimsun> yes
[10:03] <herve> here you go!
[10:03] <herve> I go, I mean :-)
[10:05] <crimsun> :)
[10:07] <dholbach> herve: it's building at my place
[10:07] <herve> dholbach, gcompris?
[10:08] <dholbach> yes
[10:08] <dholbach> oh no... broke off
[10:08] <herve> muhahaha!
[10:08] <herve> sorry :-p
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[10:08] <herve> there's a justice!
[10:09] <herve> gaaa
[10:09] <herve> I can't find xfcalendar in the changes list
[10:09] <dholbach> ;-)
[10:09] <herve> but a ubuntu1 one was uploaded a built all fine
[10:09] <herve> what to believe...
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[10:10] <thully> hi - has anyone here tried out netapplet from universe - I have a strange problem with it
[10:10] <thully> it crashes on almost every logout
[10:10] <tritium> thully, same thing happened to me.
[10:10] <herve> sorry I don't use it
[10:11] <thully> tritium: what do you suggest?  I need to be able to get on/off wi-fi
[10:12] <thully> I may just leave DHCP on auto and let it timeout on boot if I'm not at a hotspot
[10:12] <tritium> thully, I'm just using the Network Monitor applet these days
[10:12] <thully> that would be the one that appears by default
[10:12] <thully> correct?
[10:12] <tritium> yes
[10:13] <thully> do you use wi-fi?  if so, how do you connect/disconnect (or do you use the lazy auto-DHCP method I mentioned above)
[10:13] <tritium> I have removable wireless card, so I can control when I connect/disconnect ;)
[10:13] <herve> ifup/ifdown :-)
[10:14] <thully> Is there much danger in setting wireless to auto-DHCP?  It will time out on boot if no APs are found, but I could just hibernate each boot...
[10:14] <tritium> I don't know if tools such as laptop-net are any good, but there are a few available.
[10:17] <schweeb> laptop-net is nice
[10:17] <schweeb> quite nice.
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[10:18] <schweeb> but it's often overkill for what most people want
[10:18] <tritium> that's good to konw
[10:19] <motaboy> dholbach: Hi! sorry If I'm disturbing you but can you readd you comment on abakus on MOTUNewPackages wiki page? (now the man page is there) :D thanks.
[10:19] <dholbach> is it gone?
[10:20] <motaboy> dholbach: yes, with the wiki reset.
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[10:20] <dholbach> *grmbl*
[10:21] <dholbach> motaboy: wrote a new one
[10:21] <motaboy> dholbach: thanks!
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[10:22] <dholbach> de rien
=== motaboy is searching for a third review... :P
[10:23] <herve> lamont, ping
[10:23] <lamont> herve: yo
[10:23] <herve> hi
[10:23] <herve> is this error supposed to happen: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/libx/libxerces2-java/2.6.2-1/libxerces2-java_2.6.2-1_20040818-0802-amd64-failed
[10:24] <lamont> yep
[10:24] <lamont> well, except on i386 machines ;-)
[10:24] <lamont> mind you, I wish it didn't, but I understand why it does.
[10:25] <lamont> and it's apparently rather complicated and sorta pointless to fix it
[10:25] <herve> nothing to fix in the package itself?
[10:25] <lamont> none whatsoever
[10:25] <herve> ok, thanks!
[10:25] <lamont> unbuilt packages that are arch-all-only get built on i386 only, but show up in the w-b database as needs-build for all architectures until i386 gets around to it.
[10:25] <lamont> by which time, it's likely that the other 3 have tried and failed
[10:26] <herve> they did
[10:30] <herve> I think I have a simple one to fix
[10:30] <herve> if anyone want to try a quick&dirty
[10:30] <herve> (it's java, better be warned ;-))
[10:31] <herve> lamont, looking at http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/g/gtkam/0.1.12-2.1/gtkam_0.1.12-2.1_20050329-2325-powerpc-given-back
[10:31] <herve> could you give it a push please?
[10:32] <tritium> ajmitch, did you ever have a chance to review my packages?
[10:32] <herve> by the way, are those xfce packages all transitioned?
[10:33] <lamont> given-back==> already in needs-build
[10:33] <herve> argh sorry
[10:33] <herve> I forgot the whole workflow
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[10:55] <herve> good night all!
[10:56] <dholbach> bye herve
[10:56] <dholbach> sleep tight
[10:57] <encolpe> ah young men are so tired...
[10:57] <herve> I take it as irony :-)
[10:58] <encolpe> ;)
[10:58] <herve> I just go read, but shhh... :-)
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[10:59] <dredg> hey! :)
[10:59] <bddebian> Heya dredg
[10:59] <encolpe> herve: last french-translated Pratchett ?
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[10:59] <dredg> wow it's doomed
[11:00] <herve> encolpe, former lanfeust mag :-p
[11:01] <herve> okay, latest touch to the wiki
[11:01] <herve> ++
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[11:04] <dholbach> hey koke!
[11:04] <koke> hi!
[11:20] <tseng> hi
[11:22] <ManuelJ> hi koke
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