[12:04] <motaboy> night all!
[12:05] <segfault2k> !
[12:05] <burgermann> nite =)
[12:05] <segfault2k> motaboy: 
[12:05] <segfault2k> and the mirror
[12:05] <segfault2k> XD
[12:05] <bhna> burgermann: look at this sreeshot http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=156&slide=17
[12:05] <motaboy> [23:57]  <motaboy> done
[12:06] <bhna> by, good night
[12:06] <segfault2k> ahh
[12:06] <segfault2k> what i add to my sources.list ?
[12:06] <burgermann> bhna : Oh and I just click session and choose KDE?
[12:06] <motaboy> http://dev.kubuntu.org.uk/~motaboy/ubuntu-experimental/ .
[12:08] <motaboy> or better:
[12:08] <motaboy> deb http://dev.kubuntu.org.uk/~motaboy/ubuntu-experimental/ ./
[12:09] <segfault2k> if i install koffice, install the stable one :S
[12:09] <motaboy> segfault2k: ?
[12:10] <segfault2k> my mistake
[12:10] <segfault2k> xD
[12:11] <motaboy> eheh
[12:11] <motaboy> night all
[12:11] <segfault2k> night man
[12:11] <segfault2k> :D
[12:15] <burgermann> weeeell what can I say.. :) KDE is the best looking desktop in the know galaxy =}
[12:16] <segfault2k> and in the unknowns too
[12:16] <segfault2k> :p
[12:16] <burgermann> hehe
[12:16] <burgermann> well nite nite everyone
[12:30] <kay> amu: what happened to kubuntu-base ?
[12:31] <apokryphos> kay: did that actually ever exist?
[12:32] <kay> apokryphos: I still have it on my amd-64
[12:32] <kay> apokryphos: And is says amu was the Maintainer, so.. :p
[12:33] <apokryphos> oh
[12:33] <apokryphos> kay: it'll only be a metapackage though, so removing it won't do any harm
[12:33] <apokryphos> It doesn't come up in the repositories, so I assume it's now obsolte. Replaced by kubuntu-desktop, likely.
[12:34] <WillyTP> hmmm
[12:34] <kay> well, i suppose it was thought of as a replacement of ubuntu-base
[12:34] <WillyTP> when will be official 5.04 released?
[12:34] <WillyTP> shouldn't be today?
[12:34] <kay> But now that kubuntu is official ubuntu project, well, they share one base now
[12:34] <apokryphos> WillyTP: no, Friday.
[12:35] <WillyTP> apokryphos seriously?
[12:35] <WillyTP> I read on 6 :|
[12:35] <apokryphos> kay: precisely.
[12:35] <BamaJank> Friday apokryphos ?
[12:35] <apokryphos> BamaJank: WillyTP: Yup, Friday. The date was changed to give Ubuntu more time to package new GNOME
[12:35] <kay> More important, when will the successor be branched :p
[12:35] <BamaJank> I wouldn't mind it being postponed a bit longer to allow time for fixes and such
[12:35] <WillyTP> ah ok apokryphos thanks
[12:36] <kay> new Gnome, more than 2.10 ?
[12:36] <apokryphos> Nope, 2.10
[12:36] <kay> Isn't that old then already?
[12:36] <BamaJank> LOL
[12:36] <BamaJank> 2.10 was realeased March 9
[12:37] <LeeJunFan> how far into ubuntu hoary was it before kubuntu was born?
[12:37] <apokryphos> What was the one released on March 9th?
[12:37] <BamaJank> Gnome 2.10, apokryphos 
[12:37] <apokryphos> Yeah, then that one I presume.
[12:37] <kay> hm, did you read that Slackware dropped Gnome because it is too hard to package correctly?
[12:37] <apokryphos> LeeJunFan: I think it's hard to say when it was actually born; KDE was in Warty, but that's not really Kubuntu there
[12:37] <WillyTP> apokryphos where do you read the news about 8 april?
[12:38] <apokryphos> WillyTP: it was on the Ubuntu-devel mailing list I believe, but it's mentioned on the Wiki too
[12:38] <apokryphos> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HoaryReleaseSchedule
[12:38] <kay> I think even Ubuntu should release when it's ready
[12:38] <WillyTP> ah yes day more or less nothing change
[12:38] <kay> Not earlier, not later.... maybe just not as rare as Debian :p
[12:38] <WillyTP> was only curious
[12:39] <WillyTP> debian stable :PPP
[12:39] <LeeJunFan> debian's aged packages were the only reason I haven't been running debian for the last 8yrs.
[12:39] <haggai> LeeJunFan: we started the first kubuntu packages in December
[12:39] <kay> well, stable yes, so you never tried testing?
[12:40] <kay> I kind of liked testing, except that they have no desktop focus and no amd64 support
[12:41] <kay> Only December... yeah, I remember reading something about it
[12:41] <LeeJunFan> kay: exactly. I meant for my desktop. Although my servers are all running mandrake at the moment because that's what I had and was familiar with. But not for long :)
[12:41] <kay> I found, well, Kubuntu sounded like the wrong thing to do. It would always lag behind.
[12:41] <LeeJunFan> there was always one thing or another I was pissed at about Mandrake.
[12:41] <kay> But as I read here, Ubuntu is not ready, but Kubuntu more or less is?!
[12:42] <apokryphos> kay: Yup
[12:42] <kay> LeeJunFan: what was it?
[12:42] <LeeJunFan> Linux distro's are an odd beast, they are as ready as they'll be that day. But linux is always evolving it's hard to pin down a time and say "it's ready" :)
[12:42] <brainkilla> how to enable root login in kdm?
[12:42] <LeeJunFan> kay: what made me fed up with mandrake?
[12:43] <apokryphos> or impossible, for Debian :D
[12:43] <kay> LeeJunFan: Yeah...
[12:44] <brainkilla> how to enable root login in kdm?
[12:44] <kay> brainkilla: You are not supposed to do that, but in kdmrc (use locate to find it) you will find AllowRootLogin= to control it
[12:44] <BamaJank> If I have the Preview version installed and just keep everything up to date, what would be gained by fresh installing the final release?  Anything?
[12:44] <brainkilla> thanx
[12:44] <LeeJunFan> kay: first their disregard for others work. I don't mind additions or patches from developers, but I don't like mandrake going and changing things in a non-standard way.
[12:45] <apokryphos> BamaJank: there's essentially no need for a fresh install... all can be done by apt.
[12:45] <kay> LeeJunFan: Nothing bad by itself, Kubuntu is changing KDE too, not?
[12:45] <LeeJunFan> kay: and their messed up devlopment with community/commercial.
[12:45] <BamaJank> Thanks apokryphos, thought so
[12:45] <kay> I never installed Kubuntu so far, although I have it on 3 machines now
[12:45] <LeeJunFan> kay: yeah, I know - I don't care for the sudo hacks.
[12:45] <kay> All are crossgrades from Debians
[12:46] <pussfeller> how do i get kubuntu if I am running warty
[12:46] <apokryphos> pussfeller: You will want to upgrade to Hoary, then install kubuntu stuff
[12:46] <kay> pussfeller: YOu should only need to put the apt sources for Hoary, then apt-get dist-upgrade
[12:47] <pussfeller> ah
[12:47] <apokryphos> Pyre: tell pussfeller ubuhoary
[12:47] <Pyre> pussfeller: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/GuideToHoary
[12:47] <LeeJunFan> kay: I don't mind branding/theming but I don't like when changes are made to source. At least kubuntu is WAY the lesser of the evil on that regard.
[12:47] <apokryphos> kay: well, and kubuntu-desktop ;-)
[12:47] <kay> nod apokryphos 
[12:47] <kay> btw, kde is still not installable
[12:47] <apokryphos> LeeJunFan: Yeah, a lot of KDE devs complain about that; breaking up the packages... that's why a lot have stuck with Slack
[12:48] <apokryphos> kay: what?
[12:48] <LeeJunFan> kay: and it's not that I don't like the sudo way of doing things, just that it's not quite perfect _because_ that's not the way it was intended to be.
[12:48] <kay> apokryphos: apt-get install kde                 does not work
[12:49] <apokryphos> kay: why ever not? :) Works fine here. Though, they don't seem to update that metapackage...
[12:49] <apokryphos> or, if they do, it's on a less regular basis
[12:49] <kay> LeeJunFan: I have no sudo without password and still everything appears to work fine so far.... can't go too deep yet
[12:50] <kay> apokryphos: I cannot install kdesdk -> cannot install kspy
[12:50] <kay> apokryphos: Cannot install kdelibs4-dev
[12:50] <LeeJunFan> kay: I still have problems with kcontrol modules that I need to go to administrator mode for. It's irregular and sometimes gives me a passwd prompt, sometimes not, but even when it does it seldom loads the module correctly.
[12:50] <pussfeller> sudo probably better than root cause most users cant even remember their u/p let alone another to do anything administrative
[12:51] <apokryphos> kay: I've got those installed fine. Could you pastebin all those errors? Like, tracing back to the package that is causing the problem...
[12:51] <kay> I get that kind of this:  libopenexr-dev: Depends: libopenexr2 (= 1.2.1-2) but 1.2.1-3 is to be installed 
[12:52] <LeeJunFan> kay: of course as I say that both login and printer admin just worked for me. That's never happened (both of them worked) before. :)
[12:52] <LeeJunFan> maybe todays kde updates fixed it for me.
[12:52] <kay> LeeJunFan: that are the ones I would have used....
[12:53] <LeeJunFan> kay: well there we go. I just went from printers back to login (worked) then back to printer - hit administrator button and I'm looking at a red outline and it's stuck on Loading...
[12:53] <kay> What really amazed me was that when i tried the fglx driver for my ATI on 64 bits
[12:53] <kay> It just worked .... 
[12:54] <kay> Certainly good packaging from Ubuntu
[12:54] <kay> LeeJunFan: Ah... might be something not completely OK yet.
[01:01] <segfault2k> someone has problems with kpresenter ?
[01:01] <segfault2k> :S
[01:09] <kbitty> when is the first release released today?
[01:10] <LeeJunFan> ok, here's a neat effect of kde/sudo hacking.
[01:11] <LeeJunFan> go to login manager, administrator mode, hit ignore when it asks for password, then hit administrator mode again.
[01:16] <kbitty> lol
[01:17] <Pointwood> login manager?
[01:18] <LeeJunFan> Pointwood: under system administration
[01:20] <Pointwood> ahhh
[01:20] <Pointwood> doesn't seem to run quite okay, but I don't see anything really wierd
[01:22] <LeeJunFan> I got a nested admin - ie. 2 red outlines, one inside the other. And sometimes I even get the old kdesu login window :)
[01:27] <verden01> Hi
[01:27] <Pointwood> ahhh
[01:28] <Pointwood> I'm way to new to KDE to notice that :D
[01:29] <Alienware> hi
[01:29] <Alienware> can anyone help me?
[01:29] <Alienware> well?
[01:30] <LeeJunFan> Alienware: just ask the question already :)
[01:30] <moominski> yeah
[01:30] <Alienware> oh, ok. :D
[01:30] <moominski> hehe
[01:30] <Alienware> whenever i try to install kubuntu..
[01:30] <Alienware> it asks me how i want to partition my disks.. so i choose the option: use available free space
[01:31] <Alienware> but then it says i dont have enough free space.. and i have 25gbs left
[01:31] <Alienware> so i dont know what im doing wrong, any help? >: (
[01:31] <Alienware> lol
[01:31] <moominski> have u got 2 hdd
[01:31] <Alienware> noe
[01:31] <Alienware> only one
[01:31] <Alienware> one other partition.. but thats only 8 mb
[01:31] <LeeJunFan> Alienware: free space = no partition there, doesn't mean unused space in your windows partition.
[01:31] <Alienware> oh.. i see.
[01:31] <Alienware> any way i can fix this?
[01:32] <LeeJunFan> Alienware: do you have more than 1 partition?
[01:32] <Alienware> yes, two, but one is only 8mb lol :)
[01:32] <Alienware> the other one takes up the whole space.. cant i use a partitioner or something to fix this?
[01:32] <LeeJunFan> Alienware: that's not quite enough. ;)
[01:32] <Alienware> yes.. i know that. xD
[01:33] <LeeJunFan> Alienware: yeah, I honestly don't know what (if anything) kubuntu could do for this situation, you could use partitionit.
[01:33] <Alienware> would that like remove my whole partition for windows?
[01:33] <Alienware> or just take some free space out of it?
[01:34] <LeeJunFan> Alienware: specifically you need a util that can shrink your existing parition down to make free space for kubuntu.
[01:34] <Alienware> well, any way i could get a program like that? :D
[01:34] <moominski> can he not just resize his windows partition with kubuntu
[01:35] <Alienware> i dont think so
[01:35] <Alienware> ive tried that before.. i think.
[01:35] <moominski> custom partitioning?
[01:36] <Alienware> ??
[01:36] <moominski> ive been in ur spot before dude
[01:36] <Alienware> could i just use partition magic instead?
[01:36] <LeeJunFan> moominski: I honestly don't know. It's been so long since I've installed linux on a machine that I hadn't made room for it beforehand I just don't know :)
[01:36] <moominski> hehe
[01:36] <LeeJunFan> I started using linux when windows 95 was new :)
[01:37] <Alienware> wow
[01:37] <Alienware> lol
[01:37] <verden01> if i shrink my ntfs partition to install another distro should i defrag the ntfs partition first?
[01:37] <moominski> yeah
[01:37] <LeeJunFan> well, I shouldn't say new - I think win98 beta was out then.
[01:37] <pussfeller> you can do that? shrink without wiping clean?
[01:37] <tek> Alienware, i just had to do that last week, what i did is not the fastest way possibly but its easily do-able.
[01:37] <Alienware> how lnog did it take?
[01:38] <verden01> yeah thats what partition magic and QT parted do
[01:38] <moominski> i think i resized my windows partition with mandrake thats how i did it not with kubuntu sorry dude
[01:38] <LeeJunFan> verden01: parted - that's what I was trying to think of. :) Damn my old neurons and synapses.
[01:38] <tek> what i did was to install mandrake 10.x and use their partitioning tool to resize the windows drive and create the partitions i wanted to setup in kubuntu, wirte down the partition numbers, save the partitioning info and then escape the mandrake isntall
[01:38] <verden01> lol
[01:38] <tek> isntall-install
[01:39] <moominski> yeah i hated mandrake 
[01:39] <LeeJunFan> tek: haha, I was thinking of suggesting that. Mandrake does have 1 thing they totally kick-ass with is their diskdrake partitioning tool.
[01:39] <Alienware> everyone complains bout it >: O
[01:39] <tek> added about 15 to 20 minutes, but i have a copy of mandrake already, if you do not you could just download the first disk
[01:39] <pussfeller> it never upgrades properly
[01:39] <pussfeller> at least for me
[01:39] <Alienware> hmm
[01:39] <Alienware> ill think about it.. why cant i just use partition magic or something?
[01:39] <LeeJunFan> Alienware: you can.
[01:39] <Alienware> it says here i can resize it and everything
[01:40] <Alienware> oh
[01:40] <LeeJunFan> Alienware: if you have it.
[01:40] <Alienware> why didnt you say so then?
[01:40] <Alienware> oh lol
[01:40] <Alienware> :D
[01:40] <Alienware> dont they have a trial of some sort?
[01:40] <moominski> ive read that u can use partition magic 
[01:40] <LeeJunFan> I meant to :)
[01:40] <LeeJunFan> Alienware: hehe, I said partitionit - I meant partition magic. Gimme a break. I don't use windows much :)
[01:40] <tek> i only used it for the partition part, and since debian, ubuntu and kubuntu do have have a easy partitioning tool and it was a tripleboot system i opted for the asy way
[01:41] <LeeJunFan> Alienware: their trial doesn't let you apply changes last I knew.
[01:41] <pussfeller> heh thats uesful
[01:41] <moominski> shit 1 
[01:41] <Alienware> is their warez talk allowed on here?
[01:42] <Alienware> i just want to know before i blurt something out ;-)
[01:42] <tek> only thing that happens when you resize like that is windows will want to run scandisk when it first boots, you should defrag your disk in windows before you do that though
[01:42] <LeeJunFan> Alienware: although I'm not an op here I would assume no :)
[01:42] <moominski> im a newb and i think the best thing to do is install linux on another hardrive thats wot i did cause windows never gets hurt and god knows ive hurt the lot whiped it all clean
[01:43] <pussfeller> well, is there no live cd with qtpartd on it?
[01:43] <pussfeller> maybe knoppix?
[01:43] <tek> knoppix has it but i dont know about ntfs writing
[01:43] <tek> remember its a ntfs partition your resizing
[01:43] <pussfeller> yeah, knoppix writes ntfs filesystem anyways
[01:43] <Alienware> aanyways.. ill just get partition majic in other ways.
[01:43] <tek> not 3.3 perhaps the newer ones do
[01:43] <verden01> probably only if the live cd has an option to install on to the hard drive like Knoppix and mepis
[01:43] <Alienware> then i will use it.. mwahahahahaha!
[01:43] <moominski> get the first cd of mandrake its sweet partitioning tool
[01:44] <LeeJunFan> kanotix, mepis
[01:44] <Alienware> ok well i have that.. so i guess i will instead of that other partition majic thing.
[01:44] <Alienware> ill cya guysa
[01:44] <Alienware> bye
[01:44] <moominski> he was in a hurry ?
[01:44] <tek> i really which debian would repackage some of the mandrake tools for debian, give it a HUGE LEAP in functionality for noobs
[01:44] <pussfeller> when i buy my laptop this info will come in handy
[01:45] <moominski> lol
[01:45] <pussfeller> ubuntu is a big step forward for debian being noobie friendly
[01:45] <tek> which=wish
[01:45] <verden01> moominski, the only way to learn is to try it  just back up any important files on your ntfs drive b4 you do anything
[01:45] <pussfeller> i could never figure out debian back in the day, never could get it installed
[01:45] <tek> yes, except the installer is no easier than the installer in debian sarge
[01:46] <tek> its the same, just the package management and choices are bit dfferent.
[01:46] <moominski> slacware just dont like me ive tried and failed so many times with it
[01:46] <verden01> with the debian based distros now i think debian is the best distro out there. Has anyone ever tried Libranet?
[01:46] <LeeJunFan> moominski: wouldn't you be in a hurry to get rid of windows?
[01:46] <LeeJunFan> :)
[01:46] <moominski> i heard about that distro any good
[01:46] <verden01> its great
[01:46] <tek> that is one i have not tried, nor have i tried conectiva
[01:47] <moominski> im staickin with kubuntu
[01:47] <verden01> Libranet 3 in beta now
[01:47] <moominski> wot about yoper
[01:47] <verden01> hey kubuntu is great 
[01:47] <tek> right now im sticking with debian, i will probably put kubuntu on my system when i swap from ide to sata drives
[01:47] <moominski> aye 
[01:48] <pussfeller> after being on a bunch, it all comes down to packaging 
[01:48] <moominski> wot the diff between ide and sata??
[01:48] <pussfeller> and maybe autodetection and configuration
[01:48] <tek> sata is fast, drives are cheaper for larger disks too, the cables are alot smaller
[01:48] <verden01> kubuntu recognised my sata drive and all my AMD 64 hardware perfectly. the only distro to do so 
[01:49] <tek> sarge would also recognize them without issue i beleve
[01:49] <verden01> cool
[01:49] <moominski> which can only be a good thing
[01:49] <verden01> :-)
[01:49] <pussfeller> is there any module I have to load for an isa soundcard
[01:49] <pussfeller> besides, the alsa module itself
[01:50] <verden01> mandrake 10.1 wouldn't load on my amd64 and suse 9.2 had troubles withmy gigabit lan
[01:50] <tek> yeah the cards modules, what is the card?
[01:50] <moominski> yeah kubuntu just works which is good for noobs like myself 
[01:50] <tek> cat /proc/pci | grep audio
[01:51] <tek> might need to cap that A in audio
[01:51] <verden01> at the end of the day a distro like kubuntu is great for noobs and power users because its debian
[01:51] <pussfeller> snd_azt2320
[01:52] <moominski> i like the apt-get thingy lol
[01:52] <pussfeller> i got it working with warty, but i cant remember how 
[01:52] <pussfeller> and hoary live cd it doesnt work
[01:52] <pussfeller> which is keeping me from upgrading
[01:52] <moominski> does any1 like gnome
[01:53] <pussfeller> its alright
[01:53] <pussfeller> not enough options tho
[01:53] <moominski> yeah
[01:53] <verden01> no
[01:53] <verden01> but its getting better
[01:53] <verden01> kde rocks
[01:53] <moominski> yeah kde is my fav
[01:54] <tek> pussfeller   ok, so now look in /lib/modules/2.6.x/drivers/audio
[01:54] <moominski> the only thing i wish i could do now is play my games but i dont no how if possible
[01:54] <tek> x is whatever version kernel your running
[01:55] <tek> kde rocks, gnome is for trolls
[01:55] <verden01> just use a ps2 or xbox for games :-)
[01:55] <moominski> i think its a big gap that i cant play games on linux
[01:55] <moominski> something needs to be done
[01:55] <tek> then send a letter to the game companies and tell them
[01:56] <moominski> yeah i know
[01:56] <verden01> well there are options so youcan play games 
[01:56] <tek> build your games for linux and you have me back as a happy paying customer, only build for winblows and i will save my cash 
[01:56] <pussfeller> you can play alot of games
[01:56] <moominski> i think it wud make it complete for every1 thou
[01:56] <verden01> emulator programs but i don't know which is best for games
[01:56] <moominski> being able to play games
[01:56] <pussfeller> lotta great q3 mods out there
[01:56] <pussfeller> and et mods too
[01:57] <moominski> for free?
[01:57] <pussfeller> yep
[01:57] <tek> take a look at xwine, or perhaps the changed the name again
[01:57] <pussfeller> if you have quake3
[01:57] <moominski> ohhh
[01:57] <verden01> hey i think that even without the games youlike Linux is still great
[01:57] <tek> <--runs quake3 on linus
[01:57] <pussfeller> et and derivitives are all free
[01:57] <pussfeller> serious sam plays relatively well on linux
[01:58] <moominski> yeah i love linux the hole idea of it being mine and able to do anything i want is great
[01:58] <verden01> what about win4lin or vmware for games?
[01:58] <pussfeller> directx wont work under vmware
[01:58] <verden01> k
[01:58] <pussfeller> or at least, acceleration wont
[01:59] <moominski> do u think in the future that more games will be supported
[01:59] <pussfeller> i dont know, id didnt even make a port yet for doom3
[01:59] <pussfeller> and they released q3 for linux first
[01:59] <verden01> as linux matures of course games will be supported
[02:00] <moominski> sweet
[02:00] <moominski> guess i have to use shitows for games
[02:01] <verden01> :-)
[02:01] <verden01> just duall boot
[02:01] <tek> best way to get games to work in linux is to bitch to the game companies en mass
[02:01] <moominski> i do i have 80gb windows hdd and a 40gb hdd for linux
[02:02] <verden01> great
[02:02] <moominski> yeah
[02:02] <verden01> well when you need to play games just boot into windows and lobby the game companies
[02:03] <verden01> gotta go bye
[02:03] <tek> it is happening but a huge letter writing campaign would speed up the rate significantly, make sure you tell them the distro you run though or they will build only for redhar or fedora
[02:03] <moominski> yeah i habe been doin that
[02:04] <moominski> it has to happen
[02:04] <tek> Good, that is what it takes
[02:04] <tek> i do it with various hardware manufacturers
[02:04] <tek> just save a draft of the letter mod it every few times and send it every other month
[02:05] <tek> 5000 people do that and you have visibility
[02:05] <moominski> i think more and more people will convert to linux once its game compatible
[02:06] <pussfeller> i think any widespread adoption will be fueled first by people using it at work
[02:06] <moominski> they allready do
[02:06] <tek> you are both right
[02:06] <pussfeller> dood, people, average people, you wouldnt beleive how clueless they are about computers
[02:07] <moominski> yeah like me
[02:07] <pussfeller> i had someone pay me MONEY to tell them how to download email attachments
[02:07] <moominski> well i got this far so im doin somethin right
[02:07] <pussfeller> i kid you not
[02:07] <tek> yeah but now your running linux and your probably learning more than you did the last two years on windows and enjoying it.... Am i correct?
[02:07] <moominski> nice 1
[02:08] <pussfeller> thats the problem, they use windows, but they never learn anything at all
[02:08] <pussfeller> only the programs they use at work, or whats on their desktop
[02:08] <moominski> yes i think ive picked up more knowledge in two weeks of linux than i have ever on windows
[02:08] <tek> a smart user will not put up with all the problems of windows and still whip out a checkboook to send another check off to billG and friends.
[02:09] <tek> it takes a special kind of ID-10-T to pay for problems, that is one of the reasons why piracy is so rampant
[02:09] <moominski> its actually hard to beleive linux is all free
[02:10] <moominski> since micrsoft make so much money
[02:10] <pussfeller> microsoft was stupid to ramp up its anti-piracy efforts
[02:10] <tek> someone, (think it was Andrew Tridgell) made the comment, linux is free if your time is worth nothing.
[02:11] <pussfeller> now they are going to piss more people off
[02:11] <moominski> do u think microsoft is scared f linux??
[02:11] <pussfeller> yeah thats the thing, linux is a pain to get stuff working
[02:11] <moominski> aye but its good
[02:11] <moominski> allways learning new stuff
[02:12] <pussfeller> they are in the business market sector
[02:12] <moominski> pussfeller> how long u been converted lol
[02:12] <tek> either that or they are stupid,
[02:12] <tek> yeah but if you build a debian box you can upgrade that damn thing for the next 20 years and not have to do a damn thing to keep it running
[02:12] <pussfeller> cause once business starts switching to osx or linux, it will trickle down and also the word stranglehold will cruble
[02:12] <pussfeller> if everything goes as expected
[02:12] <tek> <--- doing just that pussfeller
[02:13] <pussfeller> i been using linux pretty much only for about 3 years
[02:13] <moominski> are able to do a lot of things on linux now?
[02:14] <moominski> u
[02:14] <pussfeller> yeah it takes longer sometimes and some things are a pain but then again, i dont have to mess with finding warez
[02:14] <tek> i have not used windows for anything in the last 7 years except making money by fixing it. i have used linux on the desktop for the last 7 years
[02:15] <tek> server included
[02:15] <pussfeller> there is certainly room for improvement tho!
[02:15] <tek> and it is improving
[02:15] <moominski> wow nice 1
[02:15] <tek> FAAAAST
[02:15] <tek> look at kde for instance
[02:15] <pussfeller> desktop has come along way in the last 3 years
[02:15] <moominski> wish i had your knowledge
[02:16] <tek> wish you did too, i would probably hire you!
[02:16] <pussfeller> still slower than windows tho
[02:16] <pussfeller> gui anyways
[02:16] <moominski> but its evolving constantly
[02:16] <tek> i wouldnt completely agree on that. slower than a microsoft product yes but non microsoft products are not as fast either because they have so much of the shit preloaded
[02:17] <kbitty> is kubuntu 1 out yet
[02:17] <tek> supposedly friday from what i heard earlier.
[02:17] <moominski> ahh good stuff
[02:17] <kbitty> its april 6th!
[02:18] <tek> don't know it will be called kubuntu1 though
[02:18] <kbitty> :(
[02:18] <kbitty> kubuntu final
[02:18] <tek> yes
[02:18] <kbitty> yeah but its still the first
[02:18] <kbitty> preview and rc arnt considerd as first version, ohhh well i cant wait till it come out
[02:18] <moominski> tek> did u just learn linux yourself?
[02:19] <kbitty> just want the official image on disk
[02:19] <tek> yeah but that does not make it a 1.0 release
[02:19] <tek> firefox was out for how long before they were at 1.0?
[02:19] <tek> 1.0 means feature complete
[02:20] <kbitty> and final usually means complete aswell
[02:20] <kbitty> same shit different stink
[02:22] <tek> you can download what they have today and upgrade each day with two simple commands
[02:22] <tek> apt-get update and apt-get dist-upgrade
[02:22] <tek> what they have not is serioulsy slick, have installed it on two system so far. still a few bugs but it is seriously nice and totally usable and getting better every few hours.
[02:24] <moominski> tek> u got any usefull tips for a newb like myself??
[02:27] <kkathman> greetings all :)
[02:28] <kkathman> I am having difficulty with AmarOK...I downloaded the amarok-engines, and only the arts engine shows up. So I downloaded the akode-mpeg pack...I can play mp3s fine, but cant play audio CDs...could someone possibly help me with this?
[02:28] <phxguy> anyone know how i can play music from itunes in linux?
[02:39] <Riddell> phxguy: kaffeine can do it with the correct codecs
[02:39] <Riddell> unless it has digital restriction management on it, dunno about that
[02:40] <phxguy> yeah these are song from the itunes store.... they are in m4p format at the moment
[02:40] <phxguy> kaffeine gives an error : The source seems encrypted, and can't be read. (DRM-protected Quicktime file)
[02:42] <Riddell> see RestrictedFormats on the wiki
[02:43] <phxguy> im sorry which wiki?
[02:44] <Riddell> phxguy: the ubuntu one
[02:44] <Riddell> ubuntu.com/wiki
[02:44] <phxguy> ok thought thats what you ment... nothing like being sure though
[02:47] <moominski> can any1 help me install this: snowball.0.3.tar.gz
[02:48] <moominski> its a theme
[02:49] <Riddell> http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kmenu.png  big kmenu, good or bad?
[02:54] <moominski> Riddell> good
[02:55] <underlord> wheres the apropriate place to ask for apps to be added to the repositories?
[03:14] <delltony_> underlord, i would say here considering Riddell is  mantainer iirc
[03:20] <Riddell> underlord: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/KubuntuSuggestedPackages  for KDE stuff
[03:24] <delltony_> Riddell, hope not to bother but who would you recommending contacting if anyone on my sound issue with this lappy the good ol ac97 sound card. Alot of folks i find use it on laptops for its common so i can't be the only one that would be pleased if master actually did something instead of having to have a degree in sound mixing in order to turn your volume on
[03:25] <Riddell> delltony_: try ubuntu-users mailing list
[03:27] <delltony_> ok ill do that thanks
[03:29] <Dr_Baltar> Stupid question - is the Kubuntu release still scheduled for tomorrow?
[03:29] <Riddell> Dr_Baltar: friday
[03:30] <Dr_Baltar> Ahh, thanks.
[03:35] <pussfeller> will the real release be much differnt than the iso thats on the site
[03:35] <pussfeller> the rc
[03:55] <tek> anyone here tried to do an update from debian sarge to kubuntu
[03:56] <tek> i think it should be smooth but just thought i would ask if anyone had tried it yet.
[03:57] <tek> thinking i can do it on a live system, just mounting the disk and having it as my only source in the sources.list file and then running apt-get dist-upgrade
[04:01] <canllaith> Hey guys - could someone tell me what the default kernel version is on ubuntu? :)
[04:02] <Riddell> hello canllaith 
[04:02] <Riddell> which version of kubuntu canllaith ?
[04:02] <canllaith> I'm not sure :)
[04:02] <LeeJunFan> canllaith: 2.6.10
[04:03] <canllaith> I'm writing an article for a mag, and I want to find out if a particular option is supported by all the major distros.
[04:03] <Riddell> well I have 2.6.10-5-386 from an install a couple days ago
[04:03] <LeeJunFan> canllaith: current version - if you recently downloaded
[04:03] <Riddell> and warty had 2.6.8.1-3-386
[04:03] <canllaith> (then it's easy to say 'and if you use <insert distro here> this will JustWork for you')
[04:03] <LeeJunFan> canllaith: what option?
[04:03] <canllaith> That sounds recent enough - could someone by any chance send me a copy of the kernel config file? Most distros I've used have it in /boot/config-foo
[04:03] <canllaith> Well, all the sane options for usb storage
[04:04] <canllaith> and hfsplus
[04:04] <LeeJunFan> I don't it on mine. I have a homebrew .config
[04:05] <LeeJunFan> whatddya know. I didn't delete that one.
[04:05] <LeeJunFan> canllaith: you want DCC or an e-mail or something else?
[04:06] <Riddell> canllaith: http://dev.kubuntu.org.uk/~jr/config-2.6.8.1-3-386 http://dev.kubuntu.org.uk/~jr/config-2.6.10-5-386
[04:06] <canllaith> Either or :) jes.hall@kdemail.net or.....
[04:06] <canllaith> thanks Riddell 
[04:06] <canllaith> Very much appreciated :)
[04:06] <Riddell> canllaith: who need hfsplus when you have kio_mac? :)
[04:07] <canllaith> There is kio_mac ? :o
[04:07] <Riddell> of course there is, got me my CVS account so it did
[04:07] <Riddell> mac:/
[04:07] <canllaith> 'please ensure hfsplus utils are installed'
[04:07] <Riddell> I made it when linux itself had no support for hfsplus, only user space tools
[04:08] <canllaith> Ok :)
[04:08] <canllaith> It seems suse/mandrake/fedora all have hfsplus enabled as a module
[04:08] <canllaith> So that's enough to write the article.... it's for a very consumer oriented mag, I'm not allowed to mention the command line ;)
[04:08] <Riddell> spose I could remove kio_mac from CVS then.  but the nostalgia...
[04:08] <canllaith> hehehe
[04:09] <canllaith> how lovely:) and ubuntu also has it as a module
[04:10] <LeeJunFan> canllaith: then so does kubuntu.
[04:10] <canllaith> Yay!
[04:11] <LeeJunFan> canllaith: the only reall difference between kubuntu and ubuntu is ubuntu=gnome desktop at install time, kubuntu=kde at install time. Beyond that they are the same.
[04:11] <canllaith> I know :)
[04:11] <canllaith> I wasn't sure what default kernel options ubuntu had though, since I've never installed it. I should, once I find a local mirror that has it.
[04:13] <canllaith> Thanks muchly for the help guys :) I know, I could go hunting for the config file on a kubuntu mirror or something but I figured you could put your hands on it in a few seconds :)
[04:58] <kkathman> can someone tell me why kaffeine continues to run even after I shut it down (i.e. doing a Ctrl-ESC shows it still running)
[05:08] <membreya> hmmm if I've upgraded to the kde-desktop from ubuntu ..can I get rid of synaptic ..or should I wait for kubuntu to be released in 3 days and just format?
[05:09] <crimsun> you can do whatever you wish
[05:10] <LeeJunFan> Yay! gwenview is fixed!
[05:11] <LeeJunFan> membreya: you might want to keep synaptic, it's really a good program in spite of gtk :D
[05:20] <kkathman> LeeJunFan, Good evening :)
[05:38] <cmf|sleeps> to get device automounting pmount must be installed, correct?
[05:40] <Riddell> cmf|sleeps: yep
[05:40] <cmf|sleeps> hmms
[05:41] <cmf|sleeps> u have it installed, when i plug in my ipod i get 2 devices on desktop, but they don't get mounted....
[05:41] <Riddell> they should mount when you click on them
[05:42] <cmf|sleeps> they do, but i assumed they'd automount, ala ivman or gvm... nm then
[05:43] <Riddell> cmf|sleeps: unfortunatly KDE isn't that clever yet
[05:43] <cmf|sleeps> true true ;)
[05:43] <Riddell> the guy didn't have time to code it but hopefully he will for 3.5
[05:44] <Riddell> or I'll do it myself!
[05:44] <cmf|sleeps> with Arch linux, when i plugged in my ipod, it only showed teh main ipod drive (not the firmware partition) on desktop and in media:/ but in kubuntu it's both ipod partition (for data) and firmware partition, any reason?
[05:44] <cmf|sleeps> also media:/ shows my swap partition
[05:44] <TechLord> anyone here?
[05:45] <TechLord> was a good fps in glxgears?
[05:45] <TechLord> *was=what's
[05:45] <Riddell> 1453 frames in 5.0 seconds = 290.600 FPS
[05:45] <Riddell> 1694 frames in 5.0 seconds = 338.800 FPS
[05:45] <_bodly> 10372 frames in 5.0 seconds = 2074.400 FPS
[05:46] <Riddell> show off :)
[05:46] <_bodly> hehe
[05:46] <TechLord> i'm getting abou 1700 per second but some times it jumps way up
[05:47] <Riddell> cmf|sleeps: not sure why that would be, not sure how it would know to hide the other partition
[05:48] <cmf|sleeps> yeah.. hmm
[05:48] <cmf|sleeps> and i noticed there's no init script for hal... 
[05:48] <Riddell> cmf|sleeps: dbus script starts/stops it
[05:49] <cmf|sleeps> ahh
[05:49] <_bodly> and opens the pod-bay doors.  No, wait.  HAL doesn't do that.
[05:50] <cmf|sleeps> Riddell: doesn't seem to restart hal due to it not properly stopping hal
[05:50] <cmf|sleeps> /usr/sbin/hald already running.
[05:50] <cmf|sleeps> run-parts: /etc/dbus-1/event.d/20hal exited with return code 1
[05:51] <cmf|sleeps> kill -9 doesn't kill it either.. :(
[05:52] <_bodly> ugh, I hate that.
[05:53] <Riddell> sounds more like HAL from 2001
[05:53] <_bodly> exactly
[05:54] <cmf|sleeps> look sliek i'll have to reboot just to estart hal.. great :(
[05:55] <smouche> practically every damn k app is krashing on me... I can replace konqueror with rox and mozilla for most things, I can replace kate with gedit, but this is getting frustrating.
[05:56] <_bodly> hmm.... did you restart X after your latest apt-get upgrade?
[05:56] <smouche> to prevent crashes, I may be running all non kde-specific apps eventually.
[06:20] <tek> 2481 frames in 5.0 seconds = 496.200 FPS but i am running vmware right now too.
[06:21] <tek> might try killall hal
[07:27] <kkathman> Does anyone have experience in setting up rhythmbox?
[07:31] <lunitik> kkathman: you need to install gstreamer0.8-artsd and gstreamer0.8-mad (if you want to use mp3's)
[07:32] <lunitik> kkathman: by default, Rhythmbox can't communicate with artsd... you may want to try experimenting with Amarok though...
[07:33] <lunitik> _ashley = a female?  *g*
[07:48] <jakeb> anybody else having trouble accessing password protected smb:// shares w/ konqueror? it keeps rejecting my password on both Win servers and samba servers, however smbmount works
[07:50] <closure> hello folks
[08:08] <Lancellor> hello??
[09:26] <hunger> Am I the only one that has KDE crash lots of times?
[09:32] <closure> hunger, when is it crashing?
[09:37] <hunger> closure: Well, not all of KDE... but the crashhandler pops up.
[09:37] <hunger> closure: Kopete crashes at about every opportunity, kded whenever I pull a USB stick, There is a crashhandler dialog whenever I log out, ...
[09:40] <closure> i don't use kopete
[09:40] <closure> so i can't help you there
[09:40] <closure> have you upgraded everything?
[09:40] <hunger> closure: Neither do I anymore;-)
[09:40] <closure> to current versions
[09:41] <hunger> closure: I did upgrade yesterday.
[09:41] <closure> i know that a lot of the crap that came with kubuntu/ubuntu just sucks ass
[09:41] <closure> the a/v programs are terrible if you ask me
[09:41] <closure> i use gaim for im's and i don't use msn or anything else
[09:41] <closure> but gaim does have support for msn
[09:42] <hunger> a/v == Antivirus?
[09:43] <closure> no
[09:43] <closure> audio visual
[09:44] <closure> there aren't really viruses in linux
[09:44] <hunger> closure: Ah, that makes more sense:-)
[09:44] <hunger> closure: That is why I was asking.
[09:46] <jc-denton> hi all
[09:46] <jc-denton> kdm is not working
[09:46] <jc-denton> is it broken or someting atm?
[09:46] <hunger> Arg! Damn xorg!
[09:47] <hunger> Why dosen't it like my keytables anymore?
[09:55] <closure> jc-denton, what did you do?
[09:55] <jc-denton> apt-get install kubuntu-desktop
[09:55] <jc-denton> on ubuntu
[09:56] <closure> did you upgrade to haory?
[09:56] <closure> hoary
[09:56] <closure> even
[09:56] <jc-denton> sure
[09:56] <closure> did you do the distribution upgrade
[09:57] <jc-denton> no i got the newest one
[09:57] <jc-denton> 'reslease candidate'
[09:57] <jc-denton> hunger: why does kde not like my xmodmapY
[09:57] <closure> of kubuntu?
[09:57] <jc-denton> ?
[09:57] <closure> the iso?
[09:57] <jc-denton> no uf ubuntu
[09:57] <jc-denton> then i saw that gnome 2.10 sucks and installed kubuntu via apt
[09:57] <jc-denton> :D
[09:57] <closure> umm i'm not following
[09:58] <closure> release candidate is kubuntu
[09:58] <hunger> jc-denton: Dunno... Why doesen't it like me symbol file?
[09:58] <jc-denton> wait i saw there was an update of kdm
[09:58] <jc-denton> hunger: don't know why doesn't it like my xmodmap?
[09:59] <jc-denton> closure: ubuntu 5.04 is release candidate (or was at least some days ago)
[09:59] <jc-denton> i installed that and then kubuntu via apt-get
[10:00] <closure> did you change your repositories to the hoary repositories?
[10:00] <closure> also
[10:00] <closure> did you select kde at the KDM login?
[10:02] <jc-denton> that's not the prolem it just gets back to kdm
[10:02] <jc-denton> whatever i select
[10:02] <jc-denton> closure: i only have hoary
[10:02] <closure> i don't understand
[10:02] <closure> i mean if you have the current version of everything it just load pretty easily
[10:03] <hunger> jc-denton: What does .xession-errors in the users homedir say?
[10:05] <jc-denton> i cannot find anything that would fit for the problem
[10:05] <jc-denton> well the session is running sincee some time and i cannot logout (work)
[10:05] <jc-denton> so i'll try later
[10:05] <jc-denton> thx for the tipp (i forgot to check .session-errors) before
[10:06] <hunger> Ah! New stuff I need to upgrade!
[10:08] <hunger> LOTS of new stuff!
[10:12] <hunger> Why did kubuntu install language packs for firefox?
[10:12] <hunger> It did not install firefox.
[10:24] <hunger> Ah! After the upgrade xorg accepts my symbol files.
[10:36] <xmachine> i'm now using kubuntu. if the final ver of hoary be release and run apt-get dist-upgrade, will my kubuntu be back to my old ubuntu?
[10:36] <closure> no
[10:37] <closure> dist upgrade is just the base
[10:37] <closure> i think
[10:37] <haggai> xmachine: if you want to switch, deinstall kubuntu-desktop and install ubuntu-desktop
[10:37] <haggai> xmachine: dist-upgrade just keeps whatever you already have
[10:38] <xmachine> thanks guys. i just love kde that's why :)
[10:38] <h> how much do u love it
[10:39] <closure> i know i personaly get aroused everytime my login screen appears
[10:39] <h> what do u have for a background
[10:39] <xmachine> yeah. kdm looks much better than gdm
[10:40] <closure> i don't use kdm
[10:40] <closure> well a theme atleast
[10:41] <closure> i couldn't find one i liked
[10:41] <closure> so i just put the desktop background and use a logo picture for my login screen
[10:41] <closure> looks very clean
[11:06] <closure> does anyone know how to disable the pop ups when you mouse over the K Menu and such?
[11:13] <jc-denton> but what i also dont get is how am i supposed to run firefox on kde
[11:14] <jc-denton> to use firefox i have to run gnome-settings-daemon under ununtu
[11:14] <bobesponja> jc-denton: AltF2 Firefox
[11:15] <jc-denton> yes but gnome-settings-daemon also wants to start strange stuff like xscreensaver and something concerning the multimedia buttons
[11:15] <jc-denton> is there a way to get it working without gnome-settings-daemon
[11:15] <jc-denton> or to configure gnome-settings-daemon for kde?
[11:15] <bobesponja> jc-denton: it seems like ubuntu still sucks for kde uesers
[11:16] <jc-denton> well there it last i have kde
[11:16] <bobesponja> jc-denton: how do u feel about kubuntu experience so far?
[11:16] <closure> jc-denton, 
[11:16] <jc-denton> on debian i dont have
[11:16] <jc-denton> bobesponja: gnome sucks!
[11:16] <closure> apt-get install mozilla-firefox
[11:16] <jc-denton> kde is better
[11:17] <jc-denton> i was really disappointed by gnome2.10
[11:17] <closure> gnome is crap
[11:17] <jc-denton> they couldn't even manage it to ship it with a menu editor
[11:17] <jc-denton> and the terminal was crashing the whole time
[11:18] <Beineri> closure: [ ]  Enable icon mouse-over effect
[11:18] <jc-denton> and my xmodmap is not working too
[11:18] <closure> yeah
[11:18] <closure> i found it
[11:19] <closure> do you know of a plugin for firefox that will enable audio/video built into websites?
[11:19] <bobesponja> closure: kaffeine
[11:19] <jc-denton> me?
[11:19] <bobesponja> closure:  kmplayer
[11:19] <jc-denton> i use the "default plugin"
[11:19] <jc-denton> :D
[11:19] <closure> Beineri, yeah how do i get firefox to play it
[11:19] <closure> threre is no default plugin
[11:24] <jc-denton> there is
[11:24] <jc-denton> about:config
[11:24] <jc-denton> and look for the default plugin
[11:24] <jc-denton> it will display a white place where the plugin is supposed to be
[11:24] <closure> do what?
[11:24] <closure> about?
[11:34] <carambol> can somebody tell me what is the source line for Hoary Updates after the final is  fixed
[11:38] <carambol> i got it already with google! :)
[11:47] <incubii> excellent
[12:10] <kbitty> when the hell is kubuntuj comming out?
[12:10] <closure> kubuntuj?
[12:10] <closure> what's j?
[12:11] <kbitty> its just my accent you know
[12:11] <kbitty> add the j
[12:11] <closure> ahh
[12:11] <kbitty> im arabic hula muhala
[12:11] <kbitty> :D
[12:11] <closure> in a week or so from what i've heard
[12:11] <kbitty> whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
[12:11] <kbitty> i thought it was april 6th?
[12:12] <thoreauputic> kbitty: hoary comes out on the 8th
[12:21] <bobesponja> then  I suppose kubuntu should be out on the 8th too
[12:23] <h> hoary is coming out on the 8th now?
[12:31] <verden01> Hi
[01:35] <closure> wtf
[01:35] <closure> why is his quit msg advertising gaim
[01:38] <godsmoke> closure: uh ... probably because he's using gaim for his irc connection
[01:41] <Tomcat_> Unlike in regular Ubuntu, I can't get my wifi network to work in kubuntu rc livecd... can anybody help me there?
[01:41] <Tomcat_> I set all the things for wireless, like key and network... and the card seems to associate with my ap.
[01:42] <Tomcat_> However, enabling the card in the regular network settings doesn't work. It's enabled, then after just one second, gets disabled again.
[01:44] <closure> godsmoke, you can do that?
[01:44] <godsmoke> closure: well, considering gaim has had an irc plugin for years -- yes
[01:45] <closure> Tomcat_, honestly i have no idea but i have seen other distro live cds be picky with their connections
[01:45] <godsmoke> Tomcat_: you can't use gui tools to do real network troubleshooting
[01:45] <godsmoke> are you expecting a dhcp lease?
[01:45] <Tomcat_> Mh... okay I'll try some cmdline then.
[01:45] <Tomcat_> Yes.
[01:45] <closure> godsmoke, considering it was a simple query. there is no use for being a smart ass.
[01:46] <godsmoke> closure: well, your question was answered by the fact that he was on irc from gaim, dont you think?
[01:46] <closure> no
[01:46] <closure> i was unaware you could irc from gaim
[01:46] <closure> hence why i asked
[01:46] <godsmoke> sigh
[01:46] <godsmoke> that's why I said he was probably on gaim
[01:47] <closure> nevermind dude it's ok
[01:47] <godsmoke> and you can get off your ass and look at http://gaim.sourceforge.net/protocol.php
[01:49] <Tomcat_> Okay I now got an IP by invoking dhclient manually... seems like the wifi manager didn't set the key correctly.
[01:50] <godsmoke> Tomcat_: wait ... what does dhclient have to do with your wireless key?
[01:50] <godsmoke> or did you mean that as separate statements?
[01:50] <verden01> Hi
[01:51] <Tomcat_> godsmoke: Oh... eh... :) I used dhclient before, but it didn't get an IP... so I played around with the wireless config again. The problem is that I have no idea how to find out if eth1 has a key set and is using it, because iwconfig seems to be silent on these settings...
[01:52] <verden01> hey tomcat
[01:52] <godsmoke> alright
[01:52] <Tomcat_> Yeah, verden01?
[01:52] <verden01> is that u tony?
[01:52] <godsmoke> yeah -- general rule of thumb -- when (relatively) new gui tools fail, you have to test with an established, command-line tool
[01:52] <hunger> Tomcat_ iwconfig does show whether encryption is used or not.
[01:53] <Tomcat_> hunger: Good then I didn't know it... where? :)
[01:53] <verden01> a friend of mine has the same nick
[01:53] <Tomcat_> verden01: No, I'm Sebastian.
[01:53] <verden01> cool sorry
[01:53] <Tomcat_> :)
[01:53] <verden01> i just gave him a copy of kubuntu and thought he might be getting into it
[01:54] <Tomcat_> :D
[01:54] <hunger> Tomcat_: Can't check at the moment... still fighting with basic kubuntu setup, didn't get round to WLAN yet.
[01:55] <Tomcat_> hunger: Get back to me if you're on it and I'm still here, okay? Thanks. :)
[01:56] <hunger> Why does X keep messing up my keyboard? I need to log in and setxkbmap the settings from xorg.conf to make it work.
[01:58] <godsmoke> hunger: you have a special keyboard?
[01:58] <hunger> godsmoke: Nope... just a unussual mapping on it.
[01:58] <godsmoke> hrm, ok
[01:59] <hunger> godsmoke: Dvorak on a german keyboard... no default mapping in Xorg for that.
[02:00] <godsmoke> ah, ok
[02:00] <Chameleon22> is it me or au mirrors are bloody slow?
[02:06] <hunger> Kaum macht man es richtig, schon gehts...#
[02:07] <_thomas> hello
[02:07] <segfault2k> hi there
[02:07] <Chameleon22> lo
[02:08] <_thomas> Have some questions. what for a programm can I use for VOIP with a camera?
[02:15] <Chameleon22> no idea
[02:15] <Chameleon22> google or freshmeat 
[02:16] <segfault2k> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=22695
[02:20] <Riddell> segfault2k: have you got usplash working?
[02:21] <segfault2k> yeah
[02:22] <Riddell> segfault2k: cool
[02:22] <segfault2k> yeah =D
[02:22] <Riddell> segfault2k: how well does usplash manage a smooth transition from usplash to X?
[02:23] <segfault2k> it's not very smoth
[02:23] <segfault2k> smooth*
[02:23] <segfault2k> is a way to "hack" the red bar?
[02:23] <Riddell> no idea, you'd need to ask sladen
[02:24] <Riddell> would be cool to have the same design for usplash, kdm, ksplash and default wallpaper so they all merge as one
[02:25] <segfault2k> i dont know how to do a kdm
[02:25] <segfault2k> theme
[02:27] <segfault2k> apokryphos: hy dude
[02:27] <segfault2k> s/hy/hi
[02:27] <Riddell> just look at an existing one /usr/share/apps/kdm/themes/kubuntu
[02:27] <apokryphos> segfault2k: hey, how's it going
[02:27] <segfault2k> fine fine 
[02:27] <Riddell> you usually have to play around with it a bit, kdm theme support is not perfect
[02:27] <segfault2k> Riddell: but did you like the usplash theme?
[02:27] <segfault2k> i mean to do a whole collection based in that design?
[02:27] <apokryphos> Riddell: I got a reply for that request on including Kubuntu closer to ubuntulinux.org home. Hold on, I'll paste.
[02:28] <Riddell> segfault2k: yeah looks cool
[02:28] <Mithsir> Hello! I still cannot run openoffice, it says "no suitable windowing system found, exiting.". What can I do?
[02:28] <Riddell> segfault2k: I think the background blue is a bit close to the blue of the logo, hard to distinguish it in places
[02:28] <apokryphos> Right. The template is going to change but the content will not be changing necessary. I mean, it could change if it needs to. Let me know, specifically, what you want and where and we can get it on. You can go and write FAQ entries and such yourself right away. Only a few pages are locked and I'm happy to edit those if you tell me what you need.
[02:29] <apokryphos> So, we need some ideas of what would go on the home page =)
[02:29] <apokryphos> (to link to kubuntu.org)
[02:29] <segfault2k> Riddell: really? :S
[02:30] <Riddell> apokryphos: well bestest thing would be to have a tab at the top pointing to kubuntu, like we have a tab pointing to ubuntu
[02:30] <Riddell> apokryphos: but it should be on the download page
[02:31] <Mithsir> I have started a bug about this, and ppl say, I need openoffice.org-kde, but that package isn't available for amd64...
[02:31] <Mithsir> whan can I do?
[02:31] <Riddell> apokryphos: and I guess we should have a Team page
[02:31] <apokryphos> Riddell: *just* a tab? ;-) 
[02:32] <apokryphos> Download page: right. Team Page could be good, yeah.
[02:32] <Riddell> Mithsir: try poking amu or Hass 
[02:32] <Riddell> err haggai 
[02:32] <Mithsir> :-)
[02:32] <Mithsir> amu, Hass, HELP!! :-)
[02:33] <apokryphos> Mithsir: not Hass, haggai ;-)
[02:33] <segfault2k> xD
[02:33] <Mithsir> oh.
[02:33] <segfault2k> why dont you use koffice :D
[02:33] <Mithsir> haggai, Help! plz! :-)
[02:34] <Mithsir> segfault2k, I tried, but it sucks.
[02:34] <segfault2k> !!!
[02:34] <Mithsir> :-)
[02:34] <Riddell> apokryphos: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/kde should be updated
[02:34] <Mithsir> segfault2k, It crashed on me once, and it doesn't do the things I tell it (border around certain cells in a table)...
[02:35] <apokryphos> Riddell: do you think that whole article should be scrapped, or archived.. make a new one, eh?
[02:35] <apokryphos> Riddell: should perhaps add a mention here: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LoCoTeams
[02:37] <Riddell> apokryphos: probably make a new FAQ entry about Kubuntu
[02:37] <Riddell> apokryphos: that's a wiki so feel free to add kubuntu to that yourself :)
[02:37] <apokryphos> Yup, that's what he suggested too; will take stuff from kubuntu.org
[02:38] <apokryphos> I'll edit stuff then make an email with any stuff that goes into docs for him to change; I'll send you a copy first..
[02:39] <Riddell> segfault2k: koffice isn't in main, and it can be unreliable.  koffice 1.4 will rock though
[02:39] <segfault2k> yea :P
[02:40] <carambol> how i get the original startpage of kde3.4 back?
[02:41] <carambol> that nice blue one
[02:41] <Riddell> carambol: about:konqueror
[02:41] <carambol> will give it a try
[02:43] <hunger> Wow, now that my keyboard works and I have changed all the keyboard shortcuts in KDE I do really like kubuntu.
[02:43] <apokryphos> Riddell: which FAQ were you talking about? This one http://people.ubuntu.com/~mako/docteam/faqguide/index.html ?
[02:44] <Riddell> apokryphos:  http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/kde
[02:45] <carambol> Riddell: thx, succeeded!
[02:45] <apokryphos> Riddell: oh, that one, yeah. That's not a wiki entry, is it....
[02:46] <apokryphos> Yeah, can't edit it. No worries; I can pass on the message
[02:46] <haggai> Mithsir: does it work if you run 'OOO_FORCE_DESKTOP=none ooffice' ?
[02:49] <Mithsir> haggai, same error message.
[02:52] <apokryphos> Riddell: gonna suggest a howto be added on the site (in the howto section), on how to install Kubuntu
[02:52] <Riddell> apokryphos: cool
[02:57] <hunger> scribus suggests and replaces scribus-doc and scribus-template. I guess that is a bug. What is the prefered way for users to report such things?
[02:58] <Mithsir> Who is "in charge" of building amd64 packages?
[02:59] <apokryphos> Hm, so is the actual official spelling of gnome GNOME or Gnome?
[03:00] <apokryphos> Mithsir: whoever it mentions on the package; depends on whether it's in Universe etc.
[03:03] <trygvebw> Hi! What do you think of this CD label? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=117998#post117998
[03:04] <Mithsir> apokryphos, well, its about openoffice-kde, there is no amd64 package yet..
[03:05] <apokryphos> I think that was currently abandoned -- for this release -- because of lack of time available or something :)
[03:05] <godsmoke> (hint
[03:05] <godsmoke> : donate time)
[03:08] <Mithsir> so is anyone running openoffice under Kubuntu-amd64??
[03:10] <godsmoke> Mithsir: I would assume so -- you don't need the kde extensions to run openoffice :)
[03:13] <trygvebw-away> ?
[03:14] <markc> Mithsir> I had to go back to gentoo because of no OOo, gentoo has a transparent multilib env now, FWIW
[03:14] <godsmoke> ...
[03:15] <Mithsir> godsmoke, well, but why doesn't my OOo work? I should say that I have upgraded from debian sarge...
[03:16] <godsmoke> Mithsir: you'll have to be more specific than "doesn't work"
[03:16] <Mithsir> well, when I run oo, it says "no suitable windowing system found, exiting."
[03:16] <godsmoke> do you have all the dependencies for it?
[03:17] <Mithsir> well, not realy...
[03:17] <godsmoke> ...
[03:18] <godsmoke> do you think not having dependencies could be a problem? -- I do
[03:18] <godsmoke> :)
[03:18] <Mithsir> I am missing some in "suggested"
[03:18] <godsmoke> the upgrade might have been quite rough from sarge to kubuntu
[03:18] <godsmoke> those are not "dependencies"
[03:18] <godsmoke> so, don't worry about those
[03:18] <godsmoke> you used dist-upgrade, right?
[03:19] <Mithsir> yes, I think so (Its been a while..)
[03:19] <godsmoke> hrm
[03:20] <da_bon_bon> i got a major problem. my sony ddu 1622 dvd drive cant read dvd anymore - after about 2 minuts of searching the dirve led goes off and "mount : no medium found" -- please help -*- anyone experienced this ?
[03:21] <godsmoke> da_bon_bon: you tested the drive in another OS?
[03:22] <godsmoke> before troubleshooting in linux, you want to make sure the drive physically works
[03:22] <Mithsir> I found this on the web: "You need libstartup-notification installed, otherwise it fails to run with "no suitable windowing system found, exiting."", but Im shure I have that lib...
[03:24] <Mithsir> OOo2 is also not available for amd64 yet... not enough amd64 compilers, huh? :-)
[03:25] <da_bon_bon> godsmoke: ya. wont work
[03:33] <Hass> (sorry for being a dick asking this O:-)  )   If final release of Kubuntu was planned a week after the RC... that means that Kubuntu is releasing today or tomorrow ?
[03:33] <apokryphos> Riddell: just emailed you a copy of the email; lmk if you think anything should be changed.
[03:35] <apokryphos> Hass: not a dick at at all :). That was the original plan, but the date was put forward to the 9th
[03:35] <apokryphos> Hass: mainly to give GNOME devs more time to package some stuff or other
[03:35] <Hass> apokryphos: ok, thanks for the info :)
[03:37] <Riddell> yeah, blame gnome
[03:49] <segfault2k> Riddell: !
[03:49] <segfault2k> XD
[03:49] <Riddell> segfault2k: hmm?
[03:49] <segfault2k> wait a sec :p
[03:49] <apokryphos> Riddell: you taken a read yet? ;-)
[03:50] <segfault2k> http://kakariko.kde.no/~segfault/kdm.jpg
[03:50] <segfault2k> i dont know how to take a screenshot of kdm
[03:50] <segfault2k> i take it a picture :P
[03:50] <Riddell> apokryphos: doesn't seem to have arrived
[03:50] <segfault2k> the white light in the picture is the flash
[03:50] <Riddell> Unknown host kakariko.kde.no
[03:51] <apokryphos> Riddell: Argh, I hope it's not more kmail/gmail woes. I'll send manually through gmail.com...
[03:51] <segfault2k> fuck
[03:51] <segfault2k> XD
[03:51] <segfault2k> wait
[03:51] <segfault2k> http://200.104.79.13/~segfault/kdm.jpg
[03:51] <segfault2k> :D
[03:52] <apokryphos> segfault2k: to take a screeny of kdm... you can (this is what LeeJunFan did =)) edit /etc/kde3/kdm/Xsetup, and add in export HOME=/root and /usr/bin/ksnapshot &
[03:53] <apokryphos> segfault2k: looks very nice :)
[03:54] <segfault2k> why the export?
[03:55] <apokryphos> Hm, not entirely sure. 
[03:55] <apokryphos> Riddell: ah,  Recipient address rejected: Relay access denied, that's why...
[03:57] <apokryphos> anyhow, resending directly through GMail should solve that
[03:58] <Riddell> apokryphos: what denied it?
 host jriddell.org[80.1.73.116]  said: 554 <jr@jriddell.org>:
[03:59] <Riddell> whatever 554 means
[04:01] <apokryphos> Google: "the error message 544 means that yahoo saw the message didnt accually come from server.com and rejects"
[04:01] <apokryphos> I guess you have something to reject emails like that..
[04:01] <apokryphos> (I didn't send through SMTP... currently not working again)
[04:03] <closure> segfault2k, how come you didn't just take a screen shot?
[04:04] <segfault2k> ah?
[04:28] <ijuz> is it a known problem that some of the KDE programms are in the gnome menu, but without symbols?
[04:30] <da_bon_bon> whats, usually, are the indications of my cdrom drive's lens being dirty ?
[04:31] <eckhart> hi
[04:31] <eckhart> how can i create a graphical grub
[04:32] <apokryphos> eckhart: graphical startup... preview version for that is available, if you want it. Works pretty well here.
[04:32] <StR> eckhart: splashimage 
[04:32] <StR> or the bootspash?
[04:32] <godsmoke> apokryphos: he said graphical grub
[04:32] <apokryphos> oh
[04:32] <eckhart> well, i'm also interested in a bootsplash
[04:33] <apokryphos> For bootsplash...
[04:33] <eckhart> that would have been the next question ;-)
[04:33] <apokryphos> Pyre: tell eckhart usplash
[04:33] <Pyre> eckhart: http://wiki.nanofreesoft.org/index.php/UsplashHowDoesItWork
[04:33] <apokryphos> Graphical Grub -- can't say I've heard of one
[04:33] <godsmoke> apokryphos: huh?
[04:34] <apokryphos> godsmoke: ...for Ubuntu
[04:34] <apokryphos> there is one?
[04:34] <godsmoke> ...
[04:34] <godsmoke> you're not making much sense
[04:34] <godsmoke> it's part of grub
[04:35] <Hass> maybe he want to put an image in the background of ubuntu? 
[04:35] <apokryphos> Is the bootsplash the graphical grub? By a Graphical Grub here I thought he meant to the original grub selection.. I didn't know there's a graphical one out for Ubu
[04:35] <godsmoke> Hass: no, he wants to use a graphical grub screen
[04:35] <godsmoke> apokryphos: it's called "splashimage"
[04:35] <godsmoke> it's been part of grub for a while
[04:36] <apokryphos> Ok; how can you use it?
[04:36] <godsmoke> http://ruslug.rutgers.edu/~mcgrof/grub-images/
[04:37] <Hass> eckhart, maybe you can try GAG - Graphical Boot Manager 
[04:37] <Hass> http://gag.sourceforge.net/pics.html
[04:39] <segfault2k> grub with a splashimage rocks :D
[04:39] <godsmoke> no
[04:39] <godsmoke> that's silly
[04:39] <godsmoke> don't use gag
[04:39] <segfault2k> why?
[04:39] <godsmoke> grub is a fine boot manager
[04:39] <segfault2k> ahh
[04:39] <segfault2k> yeah
[04:39] <segfault2k> and gag is old :S
[04:39] <godsmoke> and it can be far more graphical than gag
[04:39] <segfault2k> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=22695
[04:40] <Hass> oh i never used it, just remenbered being "visual" 
[04:40] <godsmoke> well, grub has had splashimage for a while
[04:40] <godsmoke> it's a far better choice
[04:42] <closure> does usplash hide that text when your box is booting?
[04:42] <TechLord_Work> how do you do a splash screen with kubuntu?
[04:42] <closure> usplash im' asuming
[04:43] <closure> or these above
[04:45] <segfault2k> yeah
[04:45] <segfault2k> usplash show a "boot" image :D
[04:45] <apokryphos> Erm, where is the grub.conf? I don't see it in /etc
[04:45] <segfault2k> menu.lst
[04:45] <da_bon_bon> apokryphos: /boot/grub/menu.lst
[04:46] <eckhart> going to test usplash ;-)
[04:46] <apokryphos> ok, was already editting that bugger :P
[04:49] <segfault2k> did you test it eckhart 
[04:49] <eckhart> hm
[04:49] <segfault2k> ?
[04:49] <eckhart> does not work too well
[04:49] <eckhart> at least it worked
[04:49] <eckhart> it takes 5 seconds until you can see the splash
[04:50] <eckhart> and it leaves around 5 seconds before you get to x
[04:51] <eckhart> well, just my personal experience
[04:55] <eckhart> why is the lvm package installed by default?
[04:55] <eckhart> i just don't think a normal user will ever use it
[04:57] <haggai> eckhart: it depends what you mean by a normal user.  lvm functionality is available through the installer, and it is really annoying if you install on a machine with lvm partitions and don't have lvm available
[04:58] <eckhart> hm, ok
[04:59] <hunger> eckhart: Everybody should use LVM anyway... Take it as a hint.
[04:59] <eckhart> it just annoyed me seeing the lvm startup every time i boot
[04:59] <hunger> eckhart: Remove it... and save a couple of ms during boot.
[04:59] <eckhart> well, ok, i now just removed it
[05:00] <eckhart> and space
[05:00] <hunger> eckhart: How much? 50K?
[05:01] <eckhart> now, not disk space
[05:01] <eckhart> space on the screen
[05:01] <eckhart> i now can easily see the more important boot messages
[05:01] <eckhart> ;-)
[05:05] <eckhart> hm
[05:05] <xamdm> hi @ all
[05:06] <apokryphos> Riddell: hm, did it not arrive? 
[05:06] <Riddell> apokryphos: website e-mail?  got that, looks good
[05:07] <xamdm> anyone here uses usplash ??, if so i uploaded a kubuntu-theme at www.kde-look.org :-)
[05:07] <apokryphos> Ok; I'll send.
[05:07] <carambol> as i understood u can remove LVM ?
[05:07] <Riddell> xamdm: cool, add a link from http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/KubuntuArtwork
[05:08] <xamdm> ok ill do :-)
[05:08] <eckhart> carambol: just apt-get remove lvm
[05:08] <carambol> ok
[05:08] <xamdm> Riddell, how can i do that ??
[05:08] <eckhart> or just remove the init symlinks
[05:08] <apokryphos> xamdm: does the red bar on usplash not go over the kubuntu logo/writing
[05:08] <eckhart> if you remove lvm, you also have to remove ubuntu-base
[05:09] <apokryphos> xamdm: it's a wiki; you can just edit the page... you'll have to register first
[05:09] <eckhart> i did not experience any negative effects of that yet
[05:10] <eckhart> but don't say i haven't warned you
[05:10] <carambol> but its not installe
[05:10] <carambol> remove gnome?
[05:11] <xamdm> apokryphos, in 1024 and 1280 it worked fine
[05:12] <xamdm> apokryphos, i hope that in future versions it would be possible to change the colour :-)
[05:12] <eckhart> xamdm: how does it look in 1280?
[05:12] <apokryphos> sure is ugly, isn't it =). It's probably possible now... the person doesn't give much information on where the config file is etc.
[05:12] <xamdm> eckhart, 1280x1024 looks good :-)
[05:12] <eckhart> ok
[05:13] <eckhart> i'll give it a try
[05:13] <xamdm> eckhart, usplash is not final jet, so don't expect to much
[05:13] <eckhart> xamdm: i read it
[05:14] <eckhart> xamdm: just copying it to /etc/usplash/ is sufficient?
[05:14] <eckhart> how does usplash know which one to take?
[05:14] <xamdm> unpack the file and just copy the image, maybe rename the old image :-)
[05:14] <eckhart> if i had multiple ones there?
[05:15] <xamdm> it uses background.jpg :-)
[05:15] <eckhart> ok
[05:15] <xamdm> eckhart, ore rename the otherone to ubuntu and the newone to kubuntu and make a link to background.jpg :-)
[05:16] <segfault2k> did you have the permission of the author? of the wall?
[05:16] <xamdm> segfault2k, isn't the kubuntu stuff gpl ??, if not where can i ask him ??
[05:16] <segfault2k> no idea
[05:16] <segfault2k> XD
[05:19] <xamdm> segfault2k, jou did the other theme ??, how is it going with the grup-image ??
[05:19] <segfault2k> tomorrow i will do it
[05:19] <segfault2k> i have troubles with my family right now :S
[05:19] <eckhart> hm
[05:19] <segfault2k> and right now im going to see my girlfriend
[05:19] <eckhart> could you please again post the link to the splash?
[05:20] <segfault2k> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=22695
[05:20] <xamdm> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=22714&PHPSESSID=d5c04a3b192fbf026d894efab4dd62c7
[05:21] <segfault2k> without the PHPSESSID
[05:21] <segfault2k> XD
[05:21] <xamdm> oh, copy paste :-)
[05:21] <eckhart> hm
[05:21] <segfault2k> is ok
[05:21] <segfault2k> :P
[05:21] <eckhart> why does konqui always want to save that file as png
[05:23] <xamdm> try kget 
[05:23] <segfault2k> XD
[05:24] <xamdm> usplash is a great app :-)
[05:25] <segfault2k> yup'
[05:25] <segfault2k> but is need more work
[05:25] <segfault2k> a gradient progress bar
[05:25] <segfault2k> a virtual console o show on the image
[05:25] <segfault2k> like bootsplash do
[05:25] <segfault2k> what happen?
[05:25] <eckhart> the splash screen is nice
[05:26] <segfault2k> which?
[05:26] <eckhart> yours
[05:26] <segfault2k> thanks
[05:26] <segfault2k> look
[05:26] <eckhart> but the progress bar was painted red
[05:26] <segfault2k> eckhart: 
[05:26] <segfault2k> http://kakariko.homelinux.org/~segfault/kdm.jpg
[05:27] <eckhart> screen shot ;-)
[05:27] <segfault2k> hahaha
[05:27] <segfault2k> yeah
[05:27] <segfault2k> XD
[05:27] <segfault2k> lol
[05:27] <xamdm> looks great
[05:27] <segfault2k> well  have to go
[05:28] <segfault2k> take care everyone
[05:28] <segfault2k> good bye
[05:28] <xamdm> cu
[05:28] <eckhart> cu
[05:34] <apokryphos>  join #apokryphos
[05:34] <apokryphos> urhm.
[05:54] <pussfeller> im impressed... dist-upgrdade and kubuntu-desktop actually worked with no problems
[05:55] <hunger> Not pulling GTK onto the system is indead a challange.
[05:55] <pussfeller> this would have taken days on gentoo and wouldnt have worked anyways
[05:55] <TechLord_Work> does konnquer support firefox extensions
[05:55] <Markrian> TechLord_Work, no
[05:56] <hunger> TechLord_Work: Nope.
[05:56] <TechLord_Work> that sucks
[05:56] <TechLord_Work> so i still need to run firefox
[05:57] <pussfeller> or write them yourself 
[05:57] <pussfeller> i dont think you need to know c++ to add context menus to konqy
[06:00] <hunger> TechLord_Work: Well, the stuff I thought I'd miss is actually there...
[08:15] (Bicchi/#kubuntu) so here are my choices: mandrake(right now in my computer), fedora (is there a future to this distro), ubuntu (new kid on the block), gentoo(too hard to install) ? any other choices?
[08:16] <treke> debian
[08:16] <Bicchi> i just said ubuntu. free
[08:16] <treke> suse
[08:16] <gdh> Sure, Novell has a desktop linux, there's Linspire, SuSE, Slackware, the Hurd, OS/2 =)
[08:16] <gsuveg> re
[08:16] <treke> debian and ubuntu are not exactly the same thing
[08:16] <treke> they are very closely related, but not the same
[08:16] <gdh> think about it, if they were the same thing, one wouldn't exist =)
[08:16] <Bicchi> yeah, but i need the pros/cons i know that they exist list your comments please.
[08:17] <gdh> Coming from MDK, you want an easy desktop. Ubuntu/Kubuntu is that.
[08:17] <gdh> I can't speak for any others.
[08:17] <Bicchi> good point
[08:17] <treke> The downside to debian is you don't have stable releases that are particularly useful on the desktop
[08:17] <gdh> well, useful if you live in 2002
[08:18] <Bicchi> suse anyone ?
[08:18] <Bicchi> slackware ?
[08:18] <treke> things work well out of the box, but the downside is that it's suse
[08:19] <ataxic> slackware yeh
[08:20] <ataxic> what about it?
[08:20] <Bicchi> good/bad/ugly ?
[08:20] <ataxic> good
[08:20] <ataxic> but if you are afraid of the commandline you better stick with windows
[08:21] <treke> I'd be inclined to say the two best choices out there at the moment are fedora and ubuntu
[08:21] <Bicchi> i think i am going to give ubuntu a shot. if i want to keep windows, do i need to partition my drive before i run the installer (partition magic)? 
[08:22] <godsmoke> no, you just need to have either unpartitioned space, or linux paritions already
[08:22] <Bicchi> thats the thing i just have windows installed on that pc.
[08:22] <godsmoke> so then you need to resize the partitions
[08:22] <Tsuroerusu> Well, the defrag your hard drive and use partition magic
[08:22] <Tsuroerusu> That should do the trick
[08:24] <Tsuroerusu> I would preffer to back stuff up and reinstall the whole thing or getting a second hard drive, but that's just my way of doing stuff ;)
[08:24] <Bicchi> does it matter where the partition sits. before windows xp, after windows. etc. what about the swap, what should come first. second?
[08:24] <Bicchi> the linux partition htat is
[08:24] <gdh> Linux doesn't care. Windows might :)
[08:24] <ataxic> slackware is more of a linux you have to work for really, i learned a lot of linux stuff with it, I cant say that when i was using redhat
[08:24] <treke> doesn't really matter for linux
[08:24] <ataxic> point and click doesn't teach much
[08:25] <gdh> slackware is a fantastic distro to learn real skills on.. real compiling from source and satisfying dependencies by hand...
[08:25] <Bicchi> ataxic: that is why i was looking into gentoo.
[08:25] <treke> as long as windows is happy linux can work itself out
[08:25] <gdh> lots to learn about kernels / link errors
[08:25] <buz> satisfying dependency by hand is for masochists
[08:25] <treke> gentoo isn't going to teach you much.
[08:25] <buz> or people with way too much time
[08:25] <ataxic> Bicchi: i go BSD if I want port stuff
[08:25] <gdh> once you know all that core stuff you can happily move onto something more managed
[08:25] <buz> yeah BSD got ports right
[08:25] <Tsuroerusu> Actually, if a totally new Linux user comes to me and asks what distro to use, I would say SuSE Linux
[08:26] <ataxic> i must say kubuntu is really nice, kinda lazy linux :)
[08:26] <gdh> in the knowledge that you have that to go back to should you need it.
[08:26] <buz> gentoo didn't get much anything right
[08:26] <buz> yeah
[08:26] <buz> i'd use freebsd if there was decent java support for it
[08:26] <Tsuroerusu> Hehe ;)
[08:26] <treke> if you just want to fiddle around, forget gentoo and build a linux install by hand
[08:26] <ataxic> or netbsd
[08:26] <buz> OTOH, now that i dropped my stupid CS classes, i' probably won't need it very often
[08:26] <Tsuroerusu> I never managed to get the darn BSD installed :P
[08:26] <treke> if you want something useful go with fedora/ubuntu/suse
[08:26] <buz> installing a bsd is probably easier than most linuxes
[08:26] <godsmoke> heh
[08:26] <buz> suse ain't useful
[08:26] <Tsuroerusu> I couldn't get the freaking port system to work
[08:27] <godsmoke> this is a sad discussion
[08:27] <buz> what's so hard about cd portdir && make && make install ?
[08:27] <Tsuroerusu> :S
[08:27] <godsmoke> oh yay -- a package vs. compiling discussion
[08:27] <Bicchi> fight fight
[08:27] <godsmoke> this has gotta be the first time anyone's brought this up
[08:28] <Tsuroerusu> I just went through the installer and selected stuff and hit enter when it was ready to install
[08:28] <Tsuroerusu> Worked out bad
[08:28] <Tsuroerusu> SuSE's great if you like a shiny control panel
[08:28] <Tsuroerusu> Which I actually do because I don
[08:28] <buz> suse sucks if you want to upgrade your system
[08:28] <godsmoke> dude used to be a great beast -- then it went down the toilet
[08:28] <Tsuroerusu> 't really have the time for CLi in the week days
[08:28] <godsmoke> suse*
[08:28] <godsmoke> :)
[08:28] <Tsuroerusu> LOL
[08:28] <Tsuroerusu> I've never had a problem with it
[08:28] <godsmoke> suse and debian were where it was at
[08:28] <godsmoke> then things changed
[08:29] <Tsuroerusu> What's wrong with Debian?
[08:29] <godsmoke> ubuntu has some nice offerings
[08:29] <Tsuroerusu> Ahhh yeah old stuff ;)
[08:29] <godsmoke> but ...
[08:29] <treke> Tsuroerusu: they can't get a release out the door.
[08:29] <godsmoke> nothing's wrong with debian
[08:29] <gdh> debian loves itself too much :)
[08:29] <godsmoke> Tsuroerusu: not if you run unstable/cutom repos
[08:29] <LeeJunFan> Tsuroerusu: the stable version is mezozoic
[08:29] <godsmoke> the stable version is STABLE
[08:29] <godsmoke> nobody has a concept of this
[08:29] <treke> custom repositories are a maintenance nightmare in my experience
[08:29] <godsmoke> stable is for the enterprise
[08:29] <gdh> indeed :)
[08:29] <gdh> yis =)
[08:30] <godsmoke> it's not for you home server
[08:30] <godsmoke> so get over yourself
[08:30] <buz> WTF can run a company on 3 year old software
[08:30] <LeeJunFan> Don't get me wrong, that's not always a problem. Sometimes it's desired.
[08:30] <godsmoke> it's not old -- it's built to be this way
[08:30] <godsmoke> buz: you obviously don't have any experience in the corporate world
[08:30] <Tsuroerusu> Well, I think Debian will have serious problems in the future if they don't get their act together
[08:30] <buz> yeah i do. usually it's the old boxes that get owned
[08:30] <LeeJunFan> My most reliable vehicle ever is my 70 chevy with about 300k miles on it, but it doesn't have air conditioning or power brakes, etc....
[08:30] <godsmoke> unfortunately, ubuntu is not a fix for debian -- it's a really different beast
[08:31] <gdh> Another sarge freeze 'really soon now' was announced this week =)
[08:31] <godsmoke> buz: no, it's not, retard
[08:31] <godsmoke> boxes that aren't updated are vulnerable -- "old" does not mean lacking in updates
[08:31] <godsmoke> all security patches are rushed into stable
[08:31] <Tsuroerusu> "Really soon" in the Debian language means in a thousand years :P
[08:31] <godsmoke> Tsuroerusu: that's typical for donation communities
[08:31] <buz> debian stable still carries exim 3 for chrisssakes
[08:32] <buz> that doesn't even get updated anymore
[08:32] <godsmoke> buz: get over yourself
[08:32] <gdh> the only 0wnage I have ever had on stable was because I backported a package and forgot to keep it updated.
[08:32] <LeeJunFan> godsmoke: right - it's rather nice on a server running debian to not have to update the whole sysem every year because X distro dropped support for version X.
[08:32] <buz> nor does anyone actually have a clue how it worked back in the day
[08:33] <treke> stable is one thing. Pushing three years with no sign of a release is a completely different story.
[08:33] <buz> exactly
[08:33] <godsmoke> that's really not educated
[08:33] <godsmoke> that's not the way an enterprise runs
[08:33] <Tsuroerusu> Is Bruce Perens still with Debian?
[08:33] <godsmoke> in fact, most enterprises update their back systems every 5- 7 years
[08:33] <treke> Debian is not targeted soly at the enterprise.
[08:33] <gdh> no change = good thing
[08:33] <godsmoke> treke: stable is
[08:33] <buz> enterprise uses redhat
[08:33] <buz> or suse
[08:33] <Tsuroerusu> That's amish thinking :P
[08:33] <buz> they want support
[08:34] <treke> Nor is it necessary to simply support one release.
[08:34] <LeeJunFan> hah
[08:34] <Tsuroerusu> No change --> good thing = Amish thinking
[08:34] <treke> Look at redhat's support schedule. Release every 18 months. Support for 5 years.
[08:34] <buz> yeah
[08:34] <godsmoke> and look at REDHAT!
[08:34] <gdh> Tsuroerusu: OK no change on a server = good thing
[08:34] <godsmoke> it's a piece of shit
[08:34] <buz> they DO new releases
[08:34] <gdh> Red Hat has employees :)
[08:34] <godsmoke> it's the most vulnerable major linux distro in the world
[08:34] <treke> People who need to upgrade upgrade, and people who don't want to change can stick with an older supported release
[08:34] <buz> exactly.
[08:34] <buz> but not even givning the option for a sane update
[08:35] <LeeJunFan> Debian is a different tool for a different job. Get over it. Quit trying to turn the cresent wrench into a screwdriver and just get a damn screwdriver if that's the tool you want!
[08:35] <godsmoke> I'm done
[08:35] <godsmoke> bye
[08:35] <gdh> Now it's time to cook sausages - I'll check back in a while - have fun :)
[08:37] <Tsuroerusu> Anyone know when the final Hoary of Ubuntu and Kubuntu will be out?
[08:37] <buz> 10th i think
[08:37] <LeeJunFan> Supposed to be friday.
[08:37] <Tsuroerusu> Damn
[08:37] <buz> why
[08:37] <buz> will hoary get updates after that?
[08:37] <Tsuroerusu> It said the 6th on the Ubuntu site :P
[08:38] <itay> hi!
[08:38] <itay> I install kde from ubuntu
[08:38] <itay> but I have some problems
[08:38] <Tsuroerusu> What's the problem itay?
[08:39] <Beineri> buz: universe
[08:39] <itay> every time I turn on the PC and kde starts, it stucks in the second icon. 
[08:39] <itay> I restart the X
[08:39] <Tsuroerusu> Hmmmmmm
[08:39] <Tsuroerusu> That sounds major weird
[08:39] <itay> and then it stucks again
[08:39] <Tsuroerusu> Hmmmm
[08:39] <buz> universe contains m79
[08:39] <LeeJunFan> itay: forever? have you tried leaving it for a few mins?
[08:39] <buz> and is pretty broken
[08:39] <itay> I need to restart X three time before kde starts
[08:40] <Tsuroerusu> Hmmmmmmmm
[08:40] <treke> buz: do the fonts match the rest of kde a bit better now?
[08:40] <buz> yeah they do
[08:40] <LeeJunFan> itay: it could be a DNS problem that just takes the amount of time for your machine to "resolve" as it does to restart X 3 times.
[08:40] <treke> buz: last time I tried it they were double the size :)
[08:40] <buz> but there's also a kde plugin for oo1.1.3 now
[08:40] <Tsuroerusu> What does a DNS problem has to do with KDE?
[08:40] <treke> buz: sweet
[08:40] <buz> nothing at all
[08:41] <buz> openoffice.org-kde
[08:41] <treke> Tsuroerusu: kde may be trying to look up your hostname
[08:41] <itay> so what should I do?
[08:41] <LeeJunFan> Tsuroerusu: if your hostname doesn't resolve.
[08:42] <Tsuroerusu> Linux had issues when starting the Network devices
[08:42] <LeeJunFan> itay: open a shell, type hostname, see if your hostname is listed in /etc/hosts
[08:42] <itay> itay@ubuntu:~$ hostname
[08:42] <itay> ubuntu
[08:43] <itay> itay@ubuntu:~$ cat /etc/hosts
[08:43] <itay> 127.0.0.1 localhost.localdomain localhost ubuntu
[08:43] <itay> # The following lines are desirable for IPv6 capable hosts
[08:43] <itay> fe00::0 ip6-localnet
[08:43] <itay> ff00::0 ip6-mcastprefix
[08:43] <itay> ff02::1 ip6-allnodes
[08:43] <itay> ff02::2 ip6-allrouters
[08:43] <itay> ff02::3 ip6-allhosts
[08:43] <LeeJunFan> if everything is good there, there could also be a problem with a tmpfile somewhere, you may want to clear /tmp and /var/tmp
[08:43] <treke> looks good 
[08:44] <LeeJunFan> itay: also - take a look at /var/log/kdm for clues.
[08:44] <uniq> itay: make sure networking is enabled.. and the lo interface is up.
[08:44] <uniq> grep 'auto lo' /etc/network/interfaces
[08:45] <itay> itay@ubuntu:~$ cat /var/log/kdm
[08:45] <itay> cat: /var/log/kdm: No such file or directory
[08:45] <itay> itay@ubuntu:~$ grep 'auto lo' /etc/network/interfaces
[08:45] <itay> auto lo
[08:45] <LeeJunFan> kdm.log
[08:46] <itay> kdm.log is empty
[08:46] <LeeJunFan> itay: are you using kdm to log in?
[08:46] <uniq> kdm isn't the problem when you're already logged in.
[08:46] <LeeJunFan> uniq: true. nevermind.
[08:46] <uniq> if it stops at the second icon you're already logged in.
[08:46] <uniq> you could check ~/.xsession-errors
[08:47] <uniq> for clues
[08:47] <itay> when I install KDE, I was asked: kdm/gdm. I chose the first.
[08:47] <uniq> but i would recommend making sure the lo interface is up.. in the first place.
[08:48] <uniq> itay: do a simple 'ifconfig'
[08:48] <uniq> what's teh output? 
[08:48] <itay> to paste it
[08:48] <uniq> not needed.
[08:48] <uniq> lo        Link encap:Local Loopback  
[08:48] <uniq> is there.. isn't it? 
[08:49] <itay> there is lo        Link encap:Local Loopback
[08:49] <uniq> ok. good.
[08:49] <itay> I connected through pppoeconf
[08:49] <uniq> then loopback is up.. 
[08:50] <LeeJunFan> What is the second icon? I've got a friend who's system hangs for a short while while KDE is checking all the media on startup. he's got 2 DVD drives and a 7in one media reader.
[08:51] <uniq> system services.
[08:51] <uniq> itay: how long does it hang? - forever? 
[08:51] <itay> I waited 10 second and then restart it
[08:52] <uniq> try giving it 1 min or something.. 
[08:52] <uniq> some timeout settings might be set a little high. 
[08:54] <itay> I will try and back
[08:55] <buz> mhh oo2 still don't use native kde printing dialogs
[08:56] <buz> aside of that, it looks much better tho
[08:57] <buz> safe for that fact that it just crashed opening a pretty simple oo1.1 doc
[08:57] <closure> what is a better bit torrent client than that gnome bt crap that came with ubuntu?
[08:57] <buz> azureus
[08:57] <buz> but it needs java
[08:57] <treke> I'm satisfied with qtorrent myself
[08:58] <buz> otoh, most BT users probably won't care for licensing issues with java. or any licensing issues at all ;-)
[09:04] <itay> hi!
[09:04] <itay> I waited 30 seconds on the third icon and then it starts
[09:04] <itay> what can I do? it should take 2 second
[09:05] <itay> hello?
[09:05] <itay> is there somebody here?
[09:06] <DaSkreech> Maybe?
[09:06] <itay> maybe yes, maybe not. maybe both...
[09:07] <itay> do you know how to solve my problem?
[09:07] <Hass> buy a faster computer xDDD
[09:08] <Hass> seriously: i don't know, google is the answer, it's the key
[09:10] <LeeJunFan> itay: sorry, was in the shower.
[09:11] <DaSkreech> Whats the third icon?
[09:11] <itay> I am not sure, I am not using english
[09:11] <itay> something with components
[09:11] <DaSkreech> The third icon in what?
[09:12] <LeeJunFan> Lemme try mine. brb
[09:12] <DaSkreech> When you are loading KDE?
[09:12] <LeeJunFan> initializing periphs.
[09:12] <itay> what do you? at startup
[09:13] <itay> mean*
[09:15] <DaSkreech>  Yes
[09:15] <LeeJunFan> itay: log out with that user and do the following from a console ' rm -rf /var/tmp/* ; rm -rf /tmp'
[09:15] <LeeJunFan> itay: I think it might be a messed up ksycoca which is in /var/tmp/
[09:16] <itay> log out from the X server, to be in a console?
[09:16] <LeeJunFan> itay: yep.
[09:16] <LeeJunFan> itay: yes.
[09:16] <itay> how do I do it. when I "ALT-CTRL-BACKSPACE", X just restart
[09:17] <LeeJunFan> itay: you don't need to quit kdm for this. just ctrl-alt-F1
[09:17] <LeeJunFan> itay: you should be logged out though, and at the login screen when you ctrl-alt-f1.
[09:18] <_ReDRuM_> oook... n00b alert :) i just installed this ubuntu and it's the first non-source distro i've taken a liking to, nice job guys :D my gripe ... where's KDE :( i'm upgrading to hoary and got told to come here... what do i do? :)
[09:18] <_ReDRuM_> is it in hoary?
[09:18] <LeeJunFan> _ReDRuM_: install kubuntu-desktop
[09:18] <_ReDRuM_> aha :D
[09:18] <_ReDRuM_> thanks
[09:19] <_ReDRuM_> that install was slick
[09:19] <LeeJunFan> _ReDRuM_: kubuntu and ununtu are same distro, only kubuntu installs kde by default, ubuntu=gnome. If you were to DL the kubuntu install media you would have gotten kde to start with.
[09:19] <_ReDRuM_> LeeJunFan: yeh... i wanted "stable" though... didnt realise it wouldnt have KDE in until too late (downloaded a zillion distros and have been running through them all)
[09:20] <LeeJunFan> _ReDRuM_: stable in a few days :)
[09:20] <_ReDRuM_> sweet :)
[09:21] <_ReDRuM_> im sure debians package manager can handle cleaning out the gnomes
[09:22] <LeeJunFan> _ReDRuM_: yeah, apt, or synaptic, or kynaptic, kpackage, etc... be careful it doesn't go wild and remove all your gtk, some of it's still useful. :)
[09:22] <_ReDRuM_> eh ill put it back if it does
[09:23] <Hass> oohh, dependecy hunt is so 90's xD
[09:24] <_ReDRuM_> heh
[09:24] <_ReDRuM_> still dont trust those package managers on my serverd
[09:24] <_ReDRuM_> tried it once... ick
[09:24] <_ReDRuM_> but on my desktop... sweet as
[09:25] <LeeJunFan> _ReDRuM_: they are nice, timesaver anyway. They seldom really screw up. And then it's usually because the operator at the keybd told them to do something wrong.
[09:25] <_ReDRuM_> never used gentoo then? :)
[09:25] <_ReDRuM_> "sorry we broke glibc!"
[09:26] <LeeJunFan> _ReDRuM_: nope, I personally don't have the time to take away from working on my own code to wait to compile someone elses. :)
[09:26] <treke> I wouldnt base my opinion of package managers on portage :)
[09:26] <LeeJunFan> _ReDRuM_: not for a whole distro anyway.
[09:27] <_ReDRuM_> treke: lol... i dont think its so much portage as the dodgy ebuilds
[09:27] <LeeJunFan> _ReDRuM_: yeah, a package manager is only as good as it's weakest package. :)
[09:27] <Hass> hey, but seeing the output of gcc compiling teachs you unix, don't it? xDD
[09:27] <treke> I blame both though. Portage for example doesnt do any dependency checking on package removal
[09:28] <_ReDRuM_> revdep-rebuild puts stuff back in
[09:28] <_ReDRuM_> convoluted but it works :)
[09:28] <LeeJunFan> Hass: maybe if you have a 386 you can read it fast enough on your system :)
[09:30] <_ReDRuM_> Hass: gentoo isnt my favorite distro anymore... it was for a bit, drew me back from using BSD then i went back to slack which is where i entered the unix world in 94. tried mandrake, redhat, fedora, mephis, knoppix.... *flicks through cds*
[09:31] <_ReDRuM_> a few more :) anyhow. i like this ubuntu. it might even get to sit still without being reformatted after a few months :)
[09:33] <_ReDRuM_> LeeJunFan: you a kubuntu developer?
[09:47] <pussfeller> maybe its just me, but I think portage screws up after awhile, unless you stay totally current, and even tehn probably
[10:08] <DaSkreech> I can't get kate to work
[10:08] <DaSkreech> Error message is Kate Probably crashed :(
[10:11] <TechLord_Work> are you using sudo with it?
[10:15] <buz> kdesu kate works for me
[10:19] <_ReDRuM_> pussfeller: funny enough - i've had more luck with a system running unstable than one running stable (in gentoo) :)
[10:19] <_ReDRuM_> those "this package isnt authentic!" messages are scarey.
[10:19] <spiral> hi
[10:20] <_ReDRuM_> spiral - hi
[10:20] <DaSkreech> Why do I have to kdesu?
[10:21] <DaSkreech> TechLord_Work: Sudo doesn't work btw
[10:22] <delltony_> i have  question since my system is totally kubuntu now. i have a garmin 2610 (gps system) and would like to update my maps and the bios software to the device. is it possible to do this on linux or do i need to install vmware? just curious how the guru's do it
[10:22] <buz> i'd guess you're better off asking garmin or some such
[10:22] <gdh> 'the device' ?
[10:23] <gdh> Oh, a garmin's a standalone unit...
[10:23] <gdh> righto, no idea =)
[10:26] <_ReDRuM_> does the newest release of kubuntu come with the ability to do lvm for the root partition or would i have to do that myself?
[10:27] <DaSkreech> buz: Why have an option in themenu that can't run?
[10:27] <gdh> root shouldn't have that much stuff :)
[10:27] <buz> what option
[10:27] <DaSkreech> kate
[10:28] <DaSkreech> it works with kdesu
[10:28] <_ReDRuM_> gbh - i agree.... but it does :(
[10:28] <gdh> so symlink /root/work to /home/root_work or something?
[10:28] <_ReDRuM_> prob because i installed warty then straight away upgraded to hoarty id imagine these compatbility libraries everywhere
[10:28] <gdh> and move all your junk into /root/work? :)
[10:28] <_ReDRuM_> gbh - i mean root as in 
[10:28] <_ReDRuM_> the / dir
[10:28] <gdh> Ahh :)
[10:29] <DaSkreech> you made a 300 Mb /?
[10:29] <DaSkreech> Wow
[10:29] <gdh> Seems a little miserly , mind
[10:29] <_ReDRuM_> yup
[10:29] <DaSkreech> I made a 100 once but that was by mistake
[10:29] <gdh> I guess you have seperate /var and /usr and /home ?
[10:29] <_ReDRuM_> hey im used to slackware 300 would be overkill in slack :)
[10:29] <_ReDRuM_> gdh - of course
[10:30] <_ReDRuM_> theyre all fine.... maybe i was a bit stingy didnt realise just how many libs all that stuff was going to need.
[10:30] <_ReDRuM_> mind you they should be in /usr not /lib so i dunno why its almost full.,
[10:32] <_ReDRuM_> if i mount / as an LVM i can grow it if i later notice some strange package put 400 mb of rubbish in /lib :)
[10:34] <_ReDRuM_> nothing from the kde section should put anything in the root partition right?
[10:34] <_ReDRuM_> cause i just tried to merge the whole of kde as a test for this system and id hate to see it fail
[10:35] <gdh> :)
[10:35] <buz> lazy sucker that i am, i just use one giant partition for everything ;-)
[10:35] <gdh> buz: Snap :)
[10:35] <buz> aaah xfs seems stable for now
[10:35] <buz> and i put all important stuff on freebsd servers anyhow ;-)
[10:35] <_ReDRuM_> buz - which you also partitioned with a single / dir :P
[10:36] <buz> two actually
[10:36] <buz>  home and /
[10:36] <_ReDRuM_> heh /home?
[10:36] <BamaJank> Today while trying to setup a new user using KUser, I had to delete a user that was listing as UID 0.  When I did this it deleted root as well.  This removed root, so I could no longer invoke sudo.  I have tried to simply use the .bak files for /etc/passwd, /etc/shadow, /etc/group.  Now I have dcop errors when trying to log in, x server has errors and KDE can not start.  What am I missing?
[10:36] <gdh> You 'had' to delete a user listed as UID 0?
[10:36] <_ReDRuM_> i hope the freebsd syslogd is as crappy as the linux ones and promptly dies if some broken package ever decides to log more than 2 gigs of data to it :)
[10:37] <buz> i dont use broken software ;-)
[10:37] <buz> besides, / is about 15G
[10:37] <BamaJank> Yes, the user was not setting up correctly, no home created, etc., it shouldn't have been setup as UID 0, so I removed it
[10:37] <_ReDRuM_> eh... you code it all? its beyond your control - you never know
[10:37] <buz> yeah i write my own os, 
[10:37] <_ReDRuM_> leet.
[10:37] <_ReDRuM_> ill put it on my neural network on my carrebian island archipelligo
[10:38] <buz> nah really, the day i start doing that i want to get comitted
[10:38] <DaSkreech> BamaJank: I'm pretty sure the user you created wasn't UID0
[10:38] <BamaJank> LOL
[10:39] <BamaJank> In any event the user I deleted wasn't root, but root went with it, I wasn't deleting the UID, only the user name
[10:39] <BamaJank> so if it took root, and I saw the user listed as UID 0, I think I know what I am talking about
[10:39] <BamaJank> thanks just the same
[10:39] <_ReDRuM_> buz: installed a system the other day without identd on it and the default /etc/inetd.conf had identd enabled - few hours later i noticed syslogd was dead - 2 gig syslog file
[10:40] <buz> mhh bsd does newsyslog religiously
[10:40] <buz> after 100K or so
[10:41] <_ReDRuM_> i've forgotten too much bsd... used to love it but i foolishly got roped back into linux when i saw portage and thought "oh wow! /usr/ports++" then later sadly discovered the two +'s were for bloating and breakage
[10:42] <buz> if you go back, try dragonflybsd
[10:43] <buz> far and beyond the most innovative OS these days
[10:43] <_ReDRuM_> a bold statement with 20 bazillion "OS"
[10:43] <_ReDRuM_> i feel like i need a mapbook lately
[10:43] <buz> of the ones you can actually use for anything beyond "ah, it might work"
[10:44] <_ReDRuM_> heh that'll be the day
[10:44] <_ReDRuM_> anything important now i just use slackware minimal install and do it by hand
[10:44] <buz> it's like a fork of freebsd 4 that actually works
[10:44] <buz> right now, its freebsd for me on servers and kubuntu on desktops
[10:44] <_ReDRuM_> i had a system run freebsd for 5 years
[10:45] <_ReDRuM_> it crashed once.
[10:45] <buz> if it crashes, it's usually because of the hardware
[10:45] <_ReDRuM_> probably a random glitch
[10:45] <_ReDRuM_> nothing's perfect
[10:45] <buz> yeah that sort of crap happens
[10:45] <gdh> Heh and tell that to the hardware vendor :)
[10:45] <buz> i've seen boxes who would run for half a year, then reboot, then run 1 year
[10:45] <gdh> 'Install RHEL3 and then tell us if it crashes'
[10:46] <buz> yeah right i got 3 years time to test it
[10:46] <_ReDRuM_> heh
[10:46] <_ReDRuM_> refreshing to notice the amount of cross-system people who are lurking in here
[10:46] <_ReDRuM_> making me more confident this is going to be as cool as i think it is
[10:47] <buz> gf + family all have OSX
[10:47] <_ReDRuM_> i've only played with the gnomes for a few hours
[10:47] <_ReDRuM_> need my kde back
[10:47] <buz> since they got there from win, i barely ever need to fix anything
[10:47] <buz> gnome suxors
[10:47] <_ReDRuM_> yup
[10:47] <_ReDRuM_> gnomes belong in gardens
[10:47] <gdh> Ubuntu's 'Update Manager' like Windows Update is very pleasant :)
[10:47] <buz> i thought tolkien stories
[10:47] <buz> Update Manager? WTF is that
[10:48] <_ReDRuM_> buz: you want something tolken story named that works hot try horde
[10:48] <_ReDRuM_> horde is great
[10:48] <gdh> buz: It's a dumbified synaptic
[10:48] <buz> i can call apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade myself, thankyou ;-)
[10:48] <gdh> a la Windows Update Automatic Update...
[10:48] <buz> i hate windows update
[10:48] <buz> truly braindead piece of code
[10:48] <_ReDRuM_> windows update has sucessfully killed 3 systems of mine
[10:48] <gdh> _ReDRuM_: It killed our scanner this week... 
[10:49] <_ReDRuM_> im never putting windows on anything again
[10:49] <buz> yeah
[10:49] <gdh> HP scanjet... the scanning software is built on IE... and now gets JScript errors...
[10:49] <buz> i've finally decided to tell everyone who wants me to fix their windows box ($ or not) to shove it up their collective asses
[10:49] <_ReDRuM_> gdh: smooth.
[10:49] <gdh> and that's even after downloading the newest HP driver release (TWO HUNDRED MEGABYTES)
[10:49] <buz> REALLY NICE
[10:49] <delltony_> buz: you too :)
[10:49] <delltony_> haha
[10:49] <delltony_> i have been doing that for a while now
[10:49] <delltony_> tell them use linux or shut up
[10:50] <gdh> Annoyingly, even VueScan on Windows didn't find the scanner connected, tho Windows' own basic scanning software works on it
[10:50] <gdh> I hate Windows so much :)
[10:50] <_ReDRuM_> i've been looking for a low-maintenence enough distro to be able to say to everyone "use linux"
[10:50] <buz> kubuntu might be just that
[10:50] <gdh> "yes and you can still run azureus"....
[10:50] <buz> now if only openoffice 2 worked smoothly
[10:50] <buz> LOOOL
[10:50] <_ReDRuM_> i thought so too - which also means its going on my desktop
[10:51] <delltony_> well if i could get my garmin to work with mapsource id be happy, the funny thing is i looked it up and the kernal supports garmin-gps so it says according to sourceforge
[10:51] <buz> its been on mine since 3 weeks.
[10:51] <buz> before i always went back to win
[10:51] <gdh> Wine is pretty hot thesedays...
[10:51] <_ReDRuM_> buz: not just kubunutu i built it myself its a pile of junk atm and i couldnt get it working on windows either
[10:51] <buz> i don't care for wine
[10:51] <_ReDRuM_> it works but it has bugs and crashes
[10:51] <gdh> buz: It fills a gap in the market
[10:51] <buz> rather just use vmware
[10:52] <_ReDRuM_> only use for vmware = running windows
[10:52] <_ReDRuM_> so vmware is dead too since windows is never getting near me again :0
[10:52] <gdh> Ah no, I've used it for devel linux stuff because UML confused me :)
[10:52] <treke> vmware is great for running linux as well :)
[10:52] <buz> now if kubuntu had qemu with accelerator, we could do away with vmware
[10:52] <buz> uml isn't much use, if you ask me
[10:53] <gdh> I tried qemu installing XP and gave up after a few hours
[10:53] <_ReDRuM_> it sucks for running linux theres much better sysems, qme if you want to screw with the os internals or xen hypervisor if you want a multisystem virtualization
[10:53] <_ReDRuM_> uml sucks too
[10:53] <DasKreeKh> _ReDRuM_: However you can run Linux on your Wristwatch :)
[10:53] <gdh> buz: Not true... I modelled a multi-site OSPF network with UML - worked like a charm.
[10:53] <_ReDRuM_> theres better systems
[10:53] <gdh> ability to add/remove links was great.
[10:53] <gdh> I saw no problem with how it worked - can't see how A. N. Other system could've done it much better.
[10:54] <_ReDRuM_> gdh: benchmarks speak for themselves - try xen :)
[10:54] <buz> gdh: i have xp running in qmeu
[10:54] <buz> its just too slow to be of much use but it works
[10:54] <gdh> buz: <shrug> dunno - I didn't try too hard :)
[10:54] <buz> xen doesnt support win
[10:54] <_ReDRuM_> buz - i meant to replace UML not vmware
[10:54] <gdh> Never heard of xen... gugel here we come
[10:55] <delltony_> is cedega good for anything other than its selected list of games?
[10:55] <treke> depends
[10:55] <treke> it might work, it might not
[10:55] <_ReDRuM_> buz: btw xen will support win from what i read on some tech site the other day intel are adding a facility to their new chip so xen will be able to virtualize any os
[10:55] <treke> that goes for the list of "supported" games as well
[10:55] <_ReDRuM_> (though it will be sub-optimal without the mods - it will work)
[10:56] <delltony_> in terms of wine-tools vs cedega which is a better way to go?
[10:56] <buz> cedega i'd say
[10:56] <treke> depends on what you are doing
[10:56] <buz> well if you have hardware virtualization things look much different anyway
[10:56] <delltony_> well i just wanted a way to run dvdshrink to be honest with you
[10:56] <treke> then wine
[10:56] <buz> but it sure would be a cool way to use dual core
[10:56] <buz> dvdshrink didnt work for me in wine
[10:56] <buz> might do now, tho
[10:56] <gdh> cedega has at least licensed to work with InstallShield  and DirectX so you have a better chance of running many productivity apps
[10:56] <delltony_> doesn't work in wine keeps crashing
[10:57] <_ReDRuM_> dvdshrink? re-encode :)
[10:57] <buz> dvd-rb isn't available for linux either
[10:57] <_ReDRuM_> you can just use ffmpeg no?
[10:57] <gdh> delltony_: wine-tools is a great release :)
[10:57] <delltony_> yeah so i have been told
[10:58] <buz> ffmpeg isn't really highquality mpeg2
[10:58] <_ReDRuM_> have to admit havent tried it
[10:58] <gdh> delltony_: It's almost perverse to see IE6 + Outlook Express running on a Linux desktop
[10:58] <gdh> delltony_: http://wine.sourceforge.net/apt/hoary/
[10:58] <_ReDRuM_> only dvds i ever copied i re-encoded first with dvd-rb/whatever that encoder is called in windows and later with mainconcept
[10:59] <buz> best one is CCE
[10:59] <_ReDRuM_> CCE that the one dvd-rb uses
[10:59] <buz> but it's not quite legal to use it unless oyu fork out some massive $
[10:59] <gdh> Yeh, It took an aeon, but I converted NTSC 60hz to PAL 50hz with CCE and the result was *stunning* - perfectly smooth, no blurring/field problems.
[10:59] <gdh> I was well-impressed :)
[10:59] <_ReDRuM_> try mainconcept out, you wont notice the difference if you tune it and even with it tuned all out for quality not speed its STILL faster than CCE
[11:00] <buz> if dual layer disks became cheap i wouldnt care about it anymore anyway
[11:00] <_ReDRuM_> buz: i doubt most of the dvds you copy is exactly legal :P
[11:01] <buz> point
[11:01] <buz> otoh, it might be covered by fair use
[11:01] <buz> who knows
[11:01] <delltony_> right blockbusters looks at me funny every time i go in there
[11:01] <_ReDRuM_> lol
[11:01] <delltony_> i rent like 10 2 day rental movies all the time
[11:01] <buz> supposedly it's even legal to leech stuff in right here
[11:02] <buz> LOL
[11:02] <_ReDRuM_> i backup all the movies i own by downloading copies off bittorrent
[11:02] <buz> yeah sure
[11:02] <buz> we all do
[11:02] <delltony_> well i get them from newsgroups
[11:02] <buz> yeah usenet is better
[11:02] <delltony_> but i love compusa when they have the free dvds
[11:02] <buz> but i tried to quit my addiction
[11:02] <buz> right now im clean
[11:02] <gdh> mmm, news :)
[11:02] <Blissex> _ReDRuM_: curiously enough I do use it precisely for backup...
[11:03] <buz> first person who even tried to claim that ever
[11:03] <_ReDRuM_> Blissex: right.
[11:03] <Blissex> _ReDRuM_: I have bought about 80 movies, and each of them cost me enough that it is worth backing up. I backup also the most expensive bits of sw disks I buy.
[11:04] <buz> it's been YEARS since i bought any software
[11:04] <Blissex> _ReDRuM_: then i also keep a backup of my home directory in my pocket all the time, so perhaps I am a bit more backup obsessed than most.
[11:04] <buz> can't even buy the software i use ;-=)
[11:04] <buz> wow, your /home sure is small
[11:04] <delltony_> damn but i want to pay 300 bucks to use kubuntu i do i do
[11:04] <delltony_> :)
[11:04] <buz> you could pay it to me
[11:04] <Blissex> well, I backup for example the original distribution media of SUSE or Debian...
[11:05] <buz> i promise i will sacrifice to the gods of ubuntu
[11:05] <Blissex> in case people haven't noticed, CDs and DVDs are _fragile_ and gets damaged easily.
[11:05] <delltony_> if it doesn't have an butt/boobs/or goochie it doesn't get backed up thats my rule :D
[11:06] <buz> so what
[11:06] <buz> distro cds are obsolete by the time they come out of my burner
[11:06] <_ReDRuM_> Blissex: heh
[11:07] <buz> ah there's plenty of those around for myself, too
[11:07] <_ReDRuM_> boy was i dumb :)
[11:07] <buz> realname even
[11:07] <buz> but who cares
[11:07] <_ReDRuM_> yeh
[11:07] <buz> google is so fucked up with my name that it is essneitally impossible to google for anything relevant from me
[11:07] <_ReDRuM_> hehe
[11:08] <buz> since i am, afaik, the only person with that name, 960 hits aint that bad
[11:08] <buz> otoh, google groups finds upward 20K
[11:09] <_ReDRuM_> heh
[11:09] <buz> _ReDRuM_: how many for you
[11:12] <_ReDRuM_> only 30
[11:12] <_ReDRuM_> on an interesting mix of assember, c and warez groups
[11:12] <_ReDRuM_> blatently admitting to pirating software, predicting the fall of the pentium but still managing to be a smartass and win the threads while active :)
[11:12] <buz> ROTFL
[11:13] <DaSkreech> can I Apt-get a flash plugin for Konqurer?
[11:19] <spiral> hi
[11:21] <DaSkreech> hi
[11:26] <_ReDRuM_> how many years before tv channels are replaced with broadband feeds
[11:26] <motaboy> DaSkreech: it should be flashplayer-mozilla 
[11:26] <DaSkreech> for Konqurer?
[11:27] <motaboy> DaSkreech: yes
[11:29] <_ReDRuM_> anyone still have a cyrix cpu?
[11:29] <_ReDRuM_> i thought my cyrix was so cool... until i got a pentium
[11:31] <DaSkreech> Is that legal to still have one of those?
[11:31] <_ReDRuM_> possibly if your bulgarian
[11:31] <_ReDRuM_> or russian
[11:32] <_ReDRuM_> i think cracks legal in russia
[11:32] <_ReDRuM_> anyone know a nice web-based manager of iptables rules?
[11:35] <_ReDRuM_> can you all stop asking for help with your ubuntu bugs? i cant read the screen is scrolling to fast
[11:36] <uniq> _redrum_: I know of a qt-based gui for iptables
[11:37] <uniq> guarddog for firewalling, and guidedog for masquerading/nat.
[11:37] <_ReDRuM_> that'll do
[11:37] <_ReDRuM_> a web script would still be handy for servers but i guess ill only forget how to use it if i dont have to do it manually somewhere :)
[11:38] <_ReDRuM_> thanks
[11:39] <uniq> happy to be useful.
[11:39] <_ReDRuM_> uniq is often useful :)
[11:39] <uniq> sure is.
[11:39] <sort-u> :P
[11:45] <_ReDRuM> minor bug (of sorts) - i installed kdm and it loaded gnome
[11:48] <treke> not really a bug. if you have gnome installed it's probably the highest priority desktop
[11:48] <_ReDRuM> cant imagine too many knomes use kdm as their dm :)
[11:48] <_ReDRuM> yeh thats why i said of sorts
[11:48] <_ReDRuM> i cant see anyone wanting to load gnome with kdm though
[11:48] <_ReDRuM> seems logical it would load kde
[11:50] <treke> I think the problem would be that if you made kde the default, it would come up first in GDM as well :p
[11:50] <_ReDRuM> just my opinion - the packages should make their respective desktop the default
[11:57] <treke> just did a little checking, and basically speaking it can't
[12:00] <treke> looks like it just steps through the xsessions directory in order and takes the first it sees