/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/04/17/#ubuntu-kernel.txt

jbaileyHey - post Hoary, what compiler version should be used for the kernel?  Have folks moved to 3.4/4.0 yet?12:10
dilingeroh, you guys might be interested in this also01:07
dilingerhttp://wiki.debian.net/?KernelFirmwareLicensing01:07
dilingeri know you're also stripping out stuff like qla22xx01:07
dilingerlooks like a few of them can be put back in, so long as you don't mind the firmware licenses being non-DSFG (of which numerous other firmware bits in the kernel aren't)01:08
dilingerjbailey: as far as how simple it would be to implement, i'd need to go through kernel-package a bit more closely01:10
dilingerand as far as the compiler, i recall people talking about using 4.0, but 4.0 is known to miscompile parts of the kernel01:10
dilinger(haven't actually tried 4.0 myself, yet)01:10
jbaileyAh, okay.  doko and I are writing the toolchain transition document, and need to figure out what compiler has to be around for the kernel.01:11
jbaileyis 3.4 generally considered to work?01:11
dilingeryou can probably assume whatever the latest released version of gcc will work ok01:30
dilingerif it doesn't, people will probably fix it quickly01:31
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zulhey05:05
fabbionemorning05:17
fabbioneoh zul already left...05:18
fabbioneehhehe05:18
fabbionei know why his debian dir is blown away :)05:18
fabbionethat's why added the point d) i leave this up to you :)05:18
fabbionethere is the trick ;)05:18
lamontlol05:19
fabbionelamont: there is only file that is patched in the diff.gz05:22
fabbioneexactly to avoid that hehhe05:22
lamontyou evil man you05:24
fabbionewell I got caught in the same problem when i did 2.6.9 :)05:25
fabbionelamont: so. do you know if he prepared the .orig.tar.gz?05:35
lamontdunnop05:38
=== lamont was at a meeting for the last couple hours
lamonthad just gotten home about the time he went to bed05:39
fabbioneehe ok05:40
lamonteth0: no IPv6 routers present05:40
lamontgonna have to do something about that one of these days05:40
lamont:)05:40
fabbionedo you remember what is the dpkg-buildpackage option to override the distro?05:40
lamontdoes 2.6.12 have related in ip6tables, I wonder?05:41
fabbioneso that dpkg-genchanges will report hoary05:41
fabbionelamont: not that i know off, but we will make it part of it05:41
lamont-D05:41
fabbione-Dhoary ?05:41
lamontyeah05:41
lamontsee people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/uch05:41
lamontworks hard to do the right thing for both native ubuntu, and debian packages05:42
lamontwith uch -i support05:42
fabbioneoh that wasn't it05:43
fabbionei lost libcairo because it was uploaded to ubuntu with the wrong distro05:43
fabbionei only need to rebuild without messing to much05:44
fabbionebut i guess i can just edit the changes before signing them05:44
lamonthow the hell did it get the wrong distro?  sbuild -dhoary would give you a hoary changes file...05:44
fabbionelamont: probably bvecause i builded it manually05:45
fabbionei try to fork buildd when it goes to gcc & co since they take really a long time05:46
fabbioneand it must have been a Build-Dep i needed on the fly05:46
fabbionestill gcc-4.0 has bad Build-Dep05:46
fabbioneit should be versioned05:46
fabbioneand i told doko05:47
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-kernel: Ubuntu kernel development discussion | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/KernelTeam | http://people.u.c/~lamont/Archives/kernel-team@ubuntu.com--2005/ stable: kernel-debian--pre35--2.6.10 playground: kernel-debian--experimental--2.6.10 | There are no kernel bugs.. only broken hardware
=== Topic (#ubuntu-kernel): set by fabbione at Tue Apr 5 20:32:01 2005
dilingerhm09:59
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-kernel:fabbione] : Ubuntu kernel development discussion | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/KernelTeam | http://people.u.c/~lamont/Archives/kernel-team@ubuntu.com--2005/ stable: kernel-debian--pre35--2.6.10 playground: | There are no kernel bugs.. only broken hardware | bk is dead
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dholbachheya11:15
dilingerfabbione: long live baz? :)11:15
fabbioneehhee11:15
dholbachi have to ask about the universe kernels again - don't want to do anything wrong11:24
dholbachi made up a list of packages to sync from debian for universe. would alsa-modules-i386, kernel-image-2.4.27-i386, kernel-patch-powerpc-2.4.27, kernel-source-2.4.27, pcmcia-modules-2.4.27-i386 -- kernel-image-2.6.10-amd64, kernel-image-2.6.10-i386, kernel-image-2.6.10-ia64, kernel-patch-powerpc-2.6.10, kernel-source-2.6.10 be ok? and what about kernel-image-2.4.27-ia64, kernel-source-2.6.11?11:25
fabbionedholbach: dude... SNMP :)11:25
dholbach*cry*11:26
dholbachi'm absolutely happy with the main kernels too11:26
dholbachi just want to have the universe kernel stuff SOMEHOW under control11:26
dholbachi'd be happy to chuck everything with *kernel* in the name completely out11:27
dilingerwhy include the universe kernels at all?11:27
fabbionedilinger: 2.411:27
dholbachwe'll need 2.4 - it was fabbione's wish! so fabbione: it IS your F.CKING problem11:27
dilingerah11:27
dholbachso please advise me11:27
dholbach:-)11:27
fabbionedholbach: skip 2.6 please11:27
fabbionethree is no need to11:27
dholbachfabbione: zul told me to include them11:28
fabbioneand keep the minumum for 2.411:28
fabbioneaka no external modules like alsa11:28
fabbionedholbach: why?11:28
dholbach*shrug*11:28
dholbachwhat about pcmcia, alsa? ia64 as well?11:28
fabbioneno pcmcia, no alsa.. ia64 ask T-Bone11:29
fabbioneonly a bare kernel11:29
dholbachok, so kernel-image-2.4.27-i386, kernel-patch-powerpc-2.4.27, kernel-source-2.4.2711:29
dholbachnice, thanks11:30
fabbionewe want to provide a minimum 2.411:30
fabbionethat's all the user need11:30
dholbachand i'll get back to T-None for 2.4-ia6411:30
fabbioneotherwise it's their problem11:30
dholbachyeah11:30
dholbachi'll have a brief look over the kernel-patch-CRACK packages as well11:30
dholbachmaybe we can get rid of them in one swish as well11:31
dholbachthanks fabbione 11:36
fabbioneno problem11:38
fabbioneor better. SNMP11:38
jbaileyfabbione: Mmm.  Will you be really upset if the Breezy glibc doesn't run on 2.4?01:30
fabbionejbailey: not at all01:30
jbaileyAnd any applications compiled with it...01:30
fabbionei am ok to kill 2.4 in breezy01:30
jbaileyCool. =)01:30
fabbioneat that point they had 1 year to convert01:31
fabbionethat is a reasonable amount of time01:31
jbaileydoko and I were hashing out the breezy toolchain plan last night, and I've proposed making nptl the default set of threading headers.  If we're doing that, we may as well the set the minimum kernel version at 2.6.8 or so.01:31
dholbachjbailey: you know what will happen to gcc-2.95?01:32
dholbachjbailey: i'd love to chuck it out at some stage01:32
dholbachjbailey: but there are unfortunately packages that hard depend on it01:32
jbaileydholbach: Ask the kernel folks here.  I assume that gcc-2.5 is only kept around for them.01:33
fabbionedholbach: afaik i know the only thing that still requires (officially) gcc 2.95 is silo01:33
fabbionethat i am anyway compiling with gcc-3.3 and seems to work01:33
jbaileysilo does?  Ugh.01:33
fabbionejbailey: there is a note about compiling silo with more recent compilers...01:33
jbaileyMaybe a nice summer project will be to port grub2 to sparc.01:33
dholbachi'm currently working on MorgueCandidates and checking all the reverse depends01:33
fabbionejbailey: if you want to blow away some dust from that code.. 01:33
fabbionejbailey: have fun.. really :)01:33
fabbionei am already scared enough to change bootloader on i38601:34
jbaileyfabbione: 'kay.  I'd have to think about that from a copyright point of view.  If I dig into silo internals, I'm not clean for hacking grub2 anymore, although I could work with someone else to do it.01:34
fabbionejbailey: wtf????????01:35
fabbioneis that somekind of retarded licence?01:35
jbaileyNo, it's the recommended steps for GNU maintainers on keeping copyrights clean.01:35
jbaileyNot the license at all, but the code ownership.01:35
dilingerfabbione: i dunno about requiring gcc-2.95.  the theory is that recompiling it w/ gcc-2.95 reduces bugs01:35
dilingerfabbione: i'm not convinced it actually does, as i see the same bugs regardless of compiler01:36
fabbionedilinger: the problem with silo is slightly different01:36
fabbionejbailey: i will need to translate the Italian Bible of Code Obfuscation01:36
fabbioneand hand a copy over to you01:37
jbailey*lol*01:37
fabbionewell i think BenC wrote silo01:38
fabbioneyou could simply ask him01:38
jbaileyfabbione: It's usually not that bad.  Mostly it's a matter of someone reading the code and then explaining in English how it works in a document.  Then someone else can take the very detailed english document and turn it into code.01:38
jbaileyThe final implementation will vary enough to be clean.01:39
jbaileyAnd as a side effect, there's documentation. =)01:39
dilingervil01:39
dilingerevil01:39
fabbioneright.. but if BenC allows copy of the code...01:39
fabbioneit will be faster01:39
fabbionealso because BenC would have to write the documentation anyway01:40
Mithrandirjbailey: uhm, but silo is GPL?01:40
Mithrandiroh, code ownership, as you say.01:40
jbaileyfabbione: True, but my luck getting anything useful out of benc.. (Like, say, even a reply by email) is not high.01:41
jbaileyHe'll even drop out of an email conversation..  And not reply for 6 months.01:41
jbaileyMithrandir: Yeah.  It's the part that sucks about GNU hacking, but has the nice result that when the lawyers come knocking, it's not at my door.01:41
fabbionejbailey: ok, i can try to contact him, since i know him for reasons outside Debian 01:42
Mithrandirjbailey: so you shouldn't ever look at non-FSF code if you ever want to write something similar?01:42
dilingerjbailey: yea, but how often do the lawyers come knocking?01:43
jbaileyMithrandir: Ideally, yes.  Or you need to radically alter the implementation.  The examples they give are things like if it's a two pass parser implementation, do it in one.  If they do all of the work in core, do it as a stream.01:43
Mithrandirjbailey: well, that can be just the shell, the algorithms may still be the same.01:43
Mithrandirthough, I'm not sure you can actually have copyright on such small parts as "a linked list implementation", since it's not new in any way.01:44
jbaileyfabbione: Cool.  If he's interested, I can ask for a disclaimer to be sent to him.  So just something saying that if we copy the stuff, it's not a big deal.  Weaker than a copyright assignment.01:44
fabbionejbailey: sure..01:44
fabbionei can try.. and let see..01:45
jbaileyMithrandir: Right.  In Canada and the US, you can't copyright the algorithm anyway.  It's just a way of making sure the code is sufficiently different.01:45
jbaileyMithrandir: I try not to think about European law too much, it's fundamentally different in enough ways that I don't pretend to know it.01:45
Mithrandirjbailey: heh, :)01:45
fabbionejbailey: do you remember his NON Debian email address?01:46
fabbionei think it was something like phunnyfarm.org?01:46
jbaileyThat sounds familiar.  /me tries to think if he's subscribed to a list where benc would've posted to.01:47
jbaileyISTR he lists his email addys in his .sig01:47
fabbionedebian-sparc?01:47
jbaileyI checked -private, and they're weblinks in his .sig.01:48
fabbionehere is01:48
fabbioneSender: Ben Collins <bmc@phunnypharm.org>01:48
fabbionei was pretty close :)01:49
fabbionejbailey: ok mailed...01:50
fabbionelet see if he answer back01:50
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zulhey02:03
fabbionehey zul02:03
zulfabbione: :P02:03
fabbione2.6.11.90 building here now...02:03
zulgood good..02:03
fabbionezul: btw.. read the chan logs from this morning02:03
fabbionei arrived a few minutes after you left :)02:03
zulyeah i saw that im missing step 3 :)02:03
fabbioneehhee02:04
zulbastard02:04
fabbionebtw.. bk is dead forever02:04
zul:)02:04
zulhuh?02:04
fabbioneno.. i told you: I will let you figure it out02:04
zulwhy is bk dead?02:05
fabbionehttp://kerneltrap.org/node/496602:05
dholbachdoes our kernel come with kernel-patch-bluez applied?02:05
fabbionedholbach: 2.6 has bluez and we also added some more recent snapshot02:05
dholbachfabbione: thanks, will chuck out02:05
zulheh...i wake up and bitkeeper still sucks ;)02:09
fabbioneeheh02:10
zulheh...all i get on my gentoo email is spam02:11
Mithrandirzul: same goes for Debian mails.  Spam and bug reports. :P02:13
zuli know..02:14
zuli just like to bitch about stuff :)02:14
fabbioneamen.. building the last flavour...02:40
zulcool...then do the monkey dance :)02:41
=== lamont crawls back into bed after checking his shadow.
fabbionelamont: ehhee03:07
fabbionelater03:07
lamontabout an hour or so03:07
lamontcan't arrive on the neighbor's doorstep this early in the day...03:07
fabbioneehhehe03:08
fabbionei am going for a nap too03:08
zullazy sods :)03:10
fabbionebah03:51
fabbionecouldn't sleep03:51
zulyou had dreams of pointers and arrays in your head right03:52
fabbionei just figured how to steal 3 IP addresses from my ISP instead :)03:52
zulim telling03:52
Lathiatfabbione: h aha03:53
Lathiatfabbione: the isps here notice when you do that03:53
Lathiatfabbione: riend of mine stoll half a class C once :)03:53
fabbionewell basically they have an offer for a /3003:53
fabbionebut they assume to configure that on the router eth03:54
fabbionethat means that they leave to you only one ip03:54
fabbionewrong...03:54
fabbionei can reconfigure the router to use a pvt class on the eth03:54
fabbioneroute the /30 to the server03:54
fabbioneand route each single ip to different machines in terms of /3203:54
fabbionebang03:54
fabbione4 ips instead of 103:55
fabbionetraceroute would skip on hop...03:55
fabbionetough luck03:55
Lathiatjust run a iptables queue script to fake the extra hop :)03:55
fabbionejbailey: i got an answer back from Ben04:03
jbaileyfabbione: w00t!04:04
jbaileyfabbione: and, and, and....? =)04:05
fabbionejbailey: and now i am explaining him the problem.. it was just a "hey dude.. are you still alive?"04:05
jbaileyI'm guessing the answer was yes, rather than an automated "I'm spending a year dead for tax purposes". =)04:06
fabbionesecond mail with the info requests on the way04:12
dilingeralright, davem doesn't get his isos until he makes 280 support stop sucking04:14
dilingerbleh, ECHAN.  too many #*-kernel04:14
zulthere is only 2 you have to worry about...well one really ;)04:14
fabbionedilinger: i am surprised nobody started a flame on LKML yet04:17
fabbioneare they talking on irc?04:17
zulfor bitkeeper?04:18
fabbioneyeah04:18
zulheh i think everything has been said before ;)04:18
dilingeri think everyone's quietly celebrating ;)04:20
dilingerexcept linus & co04:20
dilingerhm, i should sleep, i need to be up in like 7 hours04:21
fabbioneeheh good night04:22
dilingernight04:26
zulfabbione: at least the flames are going on slashdot05:38
fabbionezul: i don't really read /.05:38
fabbioneit's too full of lusers05:38
zulhehe...well you wanted a flame war ;)05:39
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-kernel: Ubuntu kernel development discussion | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/KernelTeam | http://people.u.c/~lamont/Archives/kernel-team@ubuntu.com--2005/ stable: kernel-debian--pre35--2.6.10 playground: | There are no kernel bugs.. only broken hardware | bk is dead
=== Topic (#ubuntu-kernel): set by fabbione at Wed Apr 6 10:04:47 2005
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-kernel) lamont_r: the local star cluster?08:15
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-kernel) as in, galaxy cluster08:15
(lamont_r/#ubuntu-kernel) yeah... by itself, cluster tends to bring to my mind the military/fire term....08:15
(lamont_r/#ubuntu-kernel) but like dholbach says, unlikely to happen anyway08:16
lamont_rthat's the beauty of derivatives - they can have their own archive... :-)08:16
Mithrandirso what should ubuntu name the maintained parts of universe?  Mars?08:17
dholbachlamont_r: yeah i look forward to Ancient-buntu, they can have a lot of stuff out of universe08:17
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lamont_rdholbach: yeah - we really need to get through a policy that packages that haven't been uploaded in 6 years really need to justify their continued existance, or they at least move into the 'blackhole' component08:19
lamont_rsupernova?08:20
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zulhey fabbione 08:22
fabbioneyo08:24
T-Bonelamont_r: that could be an idea. Yet we may need an answer quickly for hoary :)08:39
lamont_rT-Bone: I believe 6 years would just about start to apply to 2.0 kernels now...08:41
T-Bonelamont_r: lol08:41
T-Bonemaybe an absolute timeline isn't good. Some packages might be tagged "DEPRECATED" in other and more obvious ways08:42
lamont_rT-Bone: the question really is, what (if any) quality standards are the MOTU allowed to require for packages to remain in universe.  And that's an MOTU/sabdfl question, not a kernel-team question08:43
T-Bonelamont_r: true08:43
lamont_ralthough the answer does seem to be that dead/dying packages can be moved to the morgue08:43
T-Bonelamont_r: but then, kernel packages shouldn't be discriminated08:43
T-Bonedepending on said QA, all or none should be removed08:44
T-Bonelamont_r: as long as you don't consider kernel as something special, which i do, btw08:44
T-Boneimo, kernel packages are very distribution specific, and since we have our own kernels, i don't think we should ship debian ones on the ground we're shipping all that debian has. This is confusing to users. Some might chose to use these packages which we don't support, end up with security issues and the like, and blame us for it08:45
=== kylem agrees with you.
=== T-Bone ^5s kylem :)
T-Bonelamont_r: *that* question should be sorted out among us before poking sabdfl about it, imho08:47
jbaileylamont_r: The 2.0 kernel maintainer is a DD, I should suggest that he upload an update just to reset the counter ;)08:49
T-Bonejbailey: lol08:49
zulyay...i had to help up setting cvxs08:51
zuler...cvs08:51
zulthe horrors i have seen.08:52
lamont_rjbailey: motu did an upload (I think), speciifcally to fix a katie reject because there was a file in the .deb with a 1980 timestamp or so08:53
zulheheh08:53
jbaileyBut..  But..08:54
jbaileyI'm sure it was just some dark and dustry corner of emacs...08:54
dholbachfabbione: the powerpc-2.4-kernel failed to build - i'm not sure what to do about it...09:43
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=== T-Bone notices he has an impressive count of packages with wrong build-dep, supposes that might interest the MOTUs for breezy (probably they're already aware of the issues though)
dholbachT-Bone: fire away - anything not listed on wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseUnmetDeps?10:02
T-Bonelemme look10:02
dholbachalthought the kernel-stuff should be out, after elmo purged10:03
T-Bonedholbach: hmm, i'm not talking about that10:03
T-Bonei'm talking about *build* dependencies actually10:03
dholbachahhhhh10:03
dholbachyes10:03
dholbachsorry10:03
T-Boneeg, i have a xmms pluggin trying to build itself without debhelper10:04
dholbachoh nice10:04
T-Bonegives you the very funny failure "dpkg-buildpackage: command not found"10:04
=== dholbach hears himself say: chuck it out, nobody needs it
dholbacherm... which one?10:04
dholbachi'd be delighted to fix it10:04
T-Bonelemme look10:04
dholbachwe're just composing UniverseLastMinuteFixes10:04
dholbachso if you have some ultra-urgent stuff, tell us10:05
dholbachhaha: dietlibc has libcruft/ - nice :-)10:06
T-Bone------------------------------------------------------------------------------10:07
T-Bonedpkg-source: extracting xmms-infopipe in xmms-infopipe-1.310:07
T-Bonesh: line 0: exec: dpkg-buildpackage: not found10:07
T-Bonedholbach: ^^^ that one :)10:07
dholbachnice10:07
dholbachwill look into it10:07
T-Bonedholbach: http://buildd.slashdirt.org/logs/previous/k2000/xmms-infopipe_1.3-4_20050402-073410:07
T-Bonedholbach: i have loads of issues that can probably be easily fixed, yet i don't know whether they affect only hppa or not. It seems that a good half of them should affect all archs, but i haven't found time to look on other builders' logs10:08
dholbachi'd like to get the ultra-urgent ones listed somewhere10:09
T-Bonedholbach: when breezy opens, you might want to educate me about the proper way to fix them, eg either simply uploading the fix or sending it to whoever care. I don't mind doing a bunch of simple uploads if that can help you guys10:09
dholbachso people know where to head first, when trying to help out10:09
T-Bonewell i can't really tell you what's ultra urgent and what's not, since i'm running hppa autobuilders, and hppa isn't supported (yet) :)10:10
dholbach:-)10:10
dholbachpackage-wise10:10
dholbachstuff out of universe you need every day :-)10:10
T-Boneheh10:11
T-Bonewell, unless lamont sends me his nice parsing scripts, i have limited pre-parsing done at http://buildd.slashdirt.org/*html10:11
T-Bonelemme clean these a bit so that they only show the last round of builds10:12
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dholbachT-Bone: build-dep added10:15
T-Bonehehe10:16
T-Boneyou're going to spend the night here if i start listing them all :)10:16
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