[01:08] <mdke> hi
[01:09] <Flonne> Hi.
[01:56] <Burgundavia> Kinnison, ping
[02:04] <Burgundavia> mdke, you here?
[02:04] <mdke> yeah
[02:04] <mdke> hiya
[02:04] <Burgundavia> do you have a dvd player?
[02:04] <mdke> yes
[02:05] <Burgundavia> you have totem-gstreamer?
[02:05] <mdke> not sure
[02:05] <mdke> if its in ubuntu-desktop
[02:05] <Burgundavia> about on totem will tell you
[02:05] <mdke> yeah ok i do
[02:06] <mdke> inserting dvd now
[02:06] <Burgundavia> see if it says it is streaming
[02:06] <mdke> totem could not play dvd, reason unknown
[02:06] <Burgundavia> ok
[02:06] <Burgundavia> you have marillait repos
[02:06] <mdke> no
[02:07] <Burgundavia> aah
[02:07] <mdke> but i have libdvdcss
[02:07] <Burgundavia> add  deb ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat/ unstable main
[02:07] <Burgundavia> ok
[02:07] <mdke> do i still need to add?
[02:07] <Burgundavia> get libdvdcss2
[02:07] <mdke> actually i think that is the one i have
[02:07] <mdke> lemme check
[02:08] <mdke> yes
[02:08] <Burgundavia> I would add that repo anyway
[02:08] <Burgundavia> and install that versin
[02:08] <mdke> hmm
[02:08] <mdke> i probably have the wrong version
[02:08] <mdke> says 1.2.8-woody
[02:09] <mdke> problem is I don't like marillat because it conflicts with my ubuntu mplayer
[02:09] <mdke> anyway have added and am updating
[02:13] <mdke> Burgundavia, dvd still not working
[02:13] <Burgundavia> err
[02:14] <Burgundavia> I just did a fresh install
[02:14] <Burgundavia> gstremer didn't work on my old machine
[02:14] <Burgundavia> but it does now
[02:14] <mdke> running it from a terminal tells me that gstreamer doesn't seem to like video/mpeg or audio/x-ac3
[02:14] <Burgundavia> hmm
[02:15] <Burgundavia> it seems gstreamer is still borked
[02:15] <mdke> have you tried with a new user?
[02:15] <Burgundavia> I am a new user
[02:15] <Burgundavia> I just reinstalled today
[02:15] <mdke> oh
[02:16] <Burgundavia> this why I am thinking about this
[02:16] <Flonne> I'm about to re-install...
[02:16] <Flonne> x86?
[02:18] <Burgundavia> yes, I run x86
[02:18] <mdke> Burgundavia, so its not normal for totem to dislike mpeg files?
[02:18] <Burgundavia> yes
[02:18] <Flonne> Want me to check/set anything when I do it?
[02:18] <Burgundavia> totem-gstreamer is mostly borked
[02:18] <Burgundavia> Flonne, not really
[02:18] <Burgundavia> I am just looking to confirm some errors and usability glitches
[02:18] <mdke> mplayer plays it fine
[02:18] <mdke> pah
[02:19] <Flonne> Do either of you have an amd64 system?
[02:19] <Burgundavia> totem-xine is better, but patent encumbered
[02:19] <Burgundavia> nope
[02:19] <mdke> Flonne, no
[02:19] <mdke> hmm when I say fine, I mean without sound
[02:19] <Flonne> I can't seem to create a gstreamer object on mine, but that was Preview.
[02:20] <Burgundavia> gstreamer is a very nice framework, but the plugins need some work
[02:21] <Flonne> Oh, well... Gentoo server goes down; Ubuntu server goes up.
[02:22] <Burgundavia> just a sec, going to reboot x
[02:28] <mdke> Burgundavia, solved my totem issue i reckon
[02:28] <mdke> there is a mpeg4, ac3, divx plugin
[02:29] <Burgundavia> you needed gstreamer plugn
[02:29] <mdke> thats what i mean
[02:29] <mdke> yeah it's working now
[02:30] <mdke> oh no
[02:30] <mdke> its playing but it is slow as hell
[02:30] <mdke> keeps freezing
[02:30] <Burgundavia> dma
[02:30] <Burgundavia> sudo hdparm -d 1 /dev/hdc
[02:30] <mdke> thats not it
[02:30] <Burgundavia> ok
[02:30] <mdke> plays fine in mplayer
[02:30] <Burgundavia> gstreamer used to that
[02:30] <mdke> and its much slower than that
[02:30] <Burgundavia> before I reinstalled
[02:32] <mdke> hmm
[02:33] <mdke> lemme install more plugins
[02:37] <mdke> ok installing more plugins has improved it, but its still jerky and the sound is rubbish
[02:39] <Burgundavia> any rss feeds you recommmend?
[02:40] <mdke> hmm
[02:40] <mdke> i use bbc world news and the ubuntu wiki new pages lol
[02:40] <mdke> actually i wanted to ask about the docteam
[02:41] <mdke> are we cracking on with some new guides now?
[02:41] <Burgundavia> my major push for hoary is the faqguide
[02:41] <Burgundavia> s/hoary/breezy
[02:41] <mdke> heh
[02:41] <mdke> has it been started?
[02:41] <mdke> what other docs are there?
[02:41] <Burgundavia> sort of
[02:41] <Burgundavia> quickguide
[02:41] <Burgundavia> and userguide
[02:42] <mdke> userguide sounds interesting
[02:42] <mdke> is that "how to set up my email client" stuff?
[02:44] <Burgundavia> sort of
[02:44] <Burgundavia> userguide and faqguide are going to have to define which is which
[02:44] <Burgundavia> that is not clear yet
[02:45] <mdke> what else is on?
[02:46] <Burgundavia> update quickguide
[02:46] <Burgundavia> and the portal
[02:46] <mdke> no systemguide or anything?
[02:46] <Burgundavia> ah yes
[02:46] <Burgundavia> admin guide
[02:47] <mdke> ok so lots
[02:47] <mdke> when are we starting?
[02:47] <Burgundavia> right now
[02:47] <mdke> ok
[02:50] <Flonne> I've got the Installation draft ready to go (well, as soon as I confirm the steps on an oldworld Mac), so I just need to know where to put it...
[02:51] <Burgundavia> wiki for now
[02:56] <mdke> Burgundavia, you know if its possible to get rid of this update manager chap in the panel?
[02:56] <Burgundavia> the little red circle?
[02:56] <mdke> that's the little devil
[02:58] <Burgundavia> update your system
[02:58] <Burgundavia> it will go away
[02:58] <mdke> thats not the point!
[02:58] <mdke> it will come back
[02:59] <Burgundavia> it is there for a reason
[02:59] <Burgundavia> you can
[02:59] <Burgundavia> stop the daemon
[02:59] <Burgundavia> and kill the cron.daily process
[02:59] <mdke> it is there for a reason?
[02:59] <Burgundavia> yes
[02:59] <mdke> what happened to choice?
[02:59] <Burgundavia> to tell people to update there machines
[02:59] <Burgundavia> sorry, good default wins out
[02:59] <mdke> i'm happy with default
[02:59] <mdke> but there is nothing wrong with "remove from panel"
[03:00] <Burgundavia> it is not in the panel
[03:00] <Burgundavia> it is in the notification area
[03:00] <mdke> ok yeah
[03:00] <mdke> which is in the panel
[03:00] <Burgundavia> you can kill the notif area
[03:00] <Burgundavia> but it is a bad idea
[03:01] <Flonne> But if you remove that, you lose everything it holds.
[03:01] <mdke> especially because then xchat will close
[03:01] <Burgundavia> huh?
[03:01] <Flonne> I don't think that will close X-Chat...
[03:01] <Burgundavia> mdke, it has been proven that users will not update unless forced to
[03:01] <Burgundavia> shiny red icons screaming at them do that
[03:01] <mdke> i don't dispute that
[03:01] <mdke> but i don't want it
[03:01] <Burgundavia> ok
[03:02] <Burgundavia> 1. kill the daemon
[03:02] <Burgundavia> 2. kill the startup that starts the daemon
[03:02] <mdke> i don't think asking for that sort of choice is unreasonable
[03:02] <Burgundavia> mdke, as an IT professional,  this is something that you SHOULD NOT be able to turn off
[03:02] <Burgundavia> end of story
[03:02] <Burgundavia> sorry
[03:02] <mdke> rubbish
[03:03] <mdke> i update my other systems
[03:03] <mdke> and they don't have it
[03:03] <mdke> i agree its a good idea to have it
[03:03] <Burgundavia> yes, but we talking the great unwashed
[03:03] <Burgundavia> and if you offer the option, people will turn it off
[03:03] <mdke> ok
[03:03] <Burgundavia> and that is a very very very bad thing
[03:03] <mdke> 1. I don't dispute its a good default
[03:03] <mdke> 2. unwashed people should be washed
[03:03] <Burgundavia> mdke, it can be turned off
[03:04] <Burgundavia> it has 2 parts
[03:04] <mdke> instead of deodorised
[03:04] <Burgundavia> a daemon that checks for updates
[03:04] <Burgundavia> and the part that puts the icon there
[03:04] <Burgundavia> kill the daemon, and you are set
[03:05] <mdke> do you know how i can do that?
[03:05] <Burgundavia> let me check
[03:06] <mdke> perhaps removing it from my session and saving will be sufficient
[03:07] <Burgundavia> might do
[03:08] <mdke> yes that seems to have done the trick i think
[03:08] <Burgundavia> the notification icon will put up with any update
[03:08] <Burgundavia> thus if you reload in syn and it has updates, it will do it then to
[03:09] <mdke> yeah
[03:10] <mdke> well i guess the user who wants to remove it can always uninstall it :/
[03:11] <Burgundavia> that too
[03:11] <Burgundavia> but I insist, there should be no reason to remove it
[03:11] <Burgundavia> I keep my machines up to date too
[03:11] <Burgundavia> but I still keep the icon
[03:11] <mdke> another daemon
[03:12] <Burgundavia> if you have a slow macine, then it might be an issue
[03:12] <mdke> ok
[03:13] <mdke> ok i'm off to bed
[03:13] <mdke> good night
[03:15] <Burgundavia> cya
[03:20] <Flonne> Burgundavia, do you have any idea how to physically move a partition?
[03:20] <Burgundavia> move?
[03:21] <Burgundavia> gparted will grow and shrink parts
[03:21] <Flonne> Yeah. Move every block from one location to another.
[03:21] <Burgundavia> hmm
[03:21] <Flonne> I know, but it only works on the tail.
[03:21] <Burgundavia> it must be possible
[03:21] <Flonne> At least the version I have...
[03:21] <Flonne> I need to move the head down by about four gigs.
[03:23] <Flonne> I could just create a new partition at the end, move all existing data into that, remove the first partition, create a new one four gigs up, move all the data back, restroy the temp partition, then grow the one that's left, but that seems horribly slow and it would be a total hackjob.
[03:23] <Flonne> destroy*
[03:25] <Burgundavia> I was thinking that might be the only way to do ti
[03:41] <Flonne> Ah... It looks like parted can do what I want, but its interface is quite cryptic.
[03:41] <Flonne> (gparted seems to lack this... Maybe it's unsafe)
[03:45] <Flonne> Bleh. I get a "Can't move a partition onto itself error."
[03:49] <Burgundavia> try gparted or qtparted
[05:01] <Flonne> Too late; it b0rked. :)
[05:06] <Burgundavia> hmm?
[05:11] <Flonne> A reiserfsck recovered everything importantish, but the move failed.
[06:43] <Burgundavia> http://www.ebaumsworld.com/badgers.html
[10:00] <froud> African Greetings
[10:00] <froud> puke my DSL router gave in on me last night.
[10:02] <Burgundavia> great
[10:06] <Burgundavia> hmm
[10:06] <Burgundavia> I am working on this ubuntu brochure
[10:06] <Burgundavia> should i committ to the generic folder in the branch?
[10:07] <froud> cool what ubuntu brochue?
[10:07] <froud> is it about GNOME or/and KDE
[10:07] <froud> If about both it goes in Generic
[10:07] <Burgundavia> hmm
[10:08] <Burgundavia> just mentions Ubuntu right now
[10:08] <froud> if about GNOME put in gnome
[10:08] <froud> gnome
[10:08] <froud> check it in under gnome
[10:09] <Burgundavia> ok
[11:46] <sivang> howdy all
[11:46] <froud> hello sivang 
[11:46] <Burgundavia> salut
[11:49] <sivang> salutte Burgundavia , ahalan froud
[11:49] <froud> mienyanim
[11:50] <froud> kohev li ha rosh
[11:51] <sivang> froud: lama ma kara? hakol beseder ahi ?
[11:55] <froud>    '      
[11:55] <Burgundavia> I see unicode
[11:55] <froud> its in hebrew
[11:56] <Burgundavia> I figured as much
[11:56] <Burgundavia> there is a really crazy of teaching hebrew in Ubuntu
[11:56] <sivang> froud: ooops, my unicode is broken at the moment 
[11:56] <froud> so you dont see the hebrew characters
[11:56] <sivang> Burgundavia: there is? who else is on the craze?
[11:56] <sivang> froud: let's stick to fonetic if you wish
[11:56] <sivang> :-)
[11:56] <froud> what craze?
[11:57] <Burgundavia> sivang, Kinnison 
[11:57] <froud> No I speak it
[11:57] <Burgundavia> they dance when I highlight them
[11:57] <froud> I just never type in hebrew characaters
[11:57] <sivang> Burgundavia: eh, the poor guy I owe him some docs with some instrucitnons...
[11:57] <sivang> Burgundavia: froud knows hebrew probably better then me :-)
[11:57] <Burgundavia> I must say, the hebrew is almost unreadable
[11:58] <Burgundavia> very very small and light
[11:58] <froud> Burgundavia: speaks hebrew
[11:58] <froud> oh my bad
[11:58] <froud> now I get it
[11:59] <froud> no way sivang my hebrew is bad
[11:59] <sivang> Kinnison: ping
[11:59] <froud> sivang: do you see the hebrew characters?
[11:59] <sivang> froud: no, unicode is broken from whre I am currently
[11:59] <froud> oh well
[12:00] <sivang> froud: have you been contacted by someone from the .IL LocoTeam, I forwarded him the files yous sent me, he seemed keento help tranlate them
[12:00] <froud> but my keyboard does not have hebrew keys so it is hard to remember where stuff is :-)
[12:00] <froud> sivang: cool
[12:01] <froud> I go back to hacking now, c ya
[12:01] <sivang> froud: laters
[12:02] <froud> 521 or 571 MB of Kubuntu iso downloaded :-)
[12:02] <froud> I am gonna spread Kubuntu far and wide :-)
[12:24] <jsgotangco> good evening everyone :)
[12:25] <Burgundavia> go morning
[12:25] <Burgundavia> s/go/good
[12:25] <jsgotangco> Burgey
[12:25] <jsgotangco> if i remember before you were making a presentation for ubuntu
[12:25] <jsgotangco> for a local lug?
[12:25] <Burgundavia> hmm
[12:25] <Burgundavia> bigger than that
[12:26] <Burgundavia> Linux fest north west
[12:26] <jsgotangco> i got invited to speak to a conference
[12:26] <jsgotangco> for Ubuntu
[12:26] <Burgundavia> cool
[12:26] <jsgotangco> but i have no idea what to present
[12:26] <Burgundavia> join the club
[12:26] <jsgotangco> what were you planning?
[12:26] <jsgotangco> anyway the conference is still in October
[12:26] <Burgundavia> my talk is called Ubuntu:Not just a funny name anymore
[12:26] <Burgundavia> basically a look at Ubuntu, then and now
[12:26] <Burgundavia> the audience is mostly geeks
[12:27] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[12:27] <Burgundavia> who probably know a lot more than me
[12:27] <jsgotangco> can i take a peek at your notes?
[12:27] <Burgundavia> hmm
[12:27] <Burgundavia> 21 days
[12:27] <jsgotangco> its ok
[12:27] <jsgotangco> no rush
[12:27] <jsgotangco> mines october anyway
[12:27] <Burgundavia> I figure I will start writing about the 25th of Apr
[12:27] <Burgundavia> there are some good talks already on the wiki
[12:28] <jsgotangco> but since its october i was thinking of breezy
[12:28] <jsgotangco> so i still have a 6 month headstart
[12:28] <Burgundavia> hmm
[12:28] <Burgundavia> good plan
[12:28] <Burgundavia> when is your talk?
[12:28] <jsgotangco> No definite date yet but the organizer said late Sept/early Oct.
[12:28] <Burgundavia> just before Breezy launches
[12:28] <Burgundavia> good timing
[12:29] <jsgotangco> yeah thats what i had in mind
[12:30] <jsgotangco> the organizer asked if they could invite someone from canonical say mako, but i asked them if they are willing to shoulder costs on bringing him over
[12:30] <Burgundavia> mako is in NYC
[12:30] <Burgundavia> better to grab jdub
[12:30] <jsgotangco> good idea
[12:31] <Burgundavia> because dist aust-->phil is < nyc-->phil
[12:31] <jsgotangco> well i heard mako went to shanghai a few months ago for AsiaOSC
[12:32] <Burgundavia> mako is canonicals community rep
[12:35] <Burgundavia> that is odd
[12:36] <Burgundavia> xchat just died
[01:23] <jsgotangco> agghhh wiki work
[01:59] <jsgotangco> hi enrico
[02:00] <Burgundavia> salut enrico 
[02:01] <enrico> Hi all!
[02:03] <jsgotangco> ok i go to dinner first
[02:03] <jsgotangco> bbl
[02:16] <enrico> whoops!  The release notes mention the FAQ Guide :)
[02:18] <jsgotangco> and our FAQ in the site is empty :(
[02:30] <mdke> hi all
[02:31] <mdke> afternoon froud 
[02:31] <froud> 'ello
[02:33] <jsgotangco> hi guys
[02:33] <maskie> hi froud
[02:33] <jsgotangco> i was reading thru the logs
[02:33] <froud> ello maskie
[02:34] <jsgotangco> does development for breezy also branch then later merged to their trunk?
[02:34] <froud> how's cape town today
[02:34] <maskie> hot and windy
[02:34] <froud> warm up here, no wind
[02:35] <jsgotangco> i watched a silly movie with my daughter today
[02:35] <maskie> the wind is not that bad today
[02:36] <claude> snow in Switzerland :-P
[02:36] <mdke> nice
[02:36] <jsgotangco> i wish we had snow here in asia
[02:36] <Burgundavia> snow is evil
[02:36] <mdke> whereabouts in switzerland are you claude ?
[02:36] <mdke> Burgundavia, snow = skiing :)
[02:36] <Burgundavia> that is fine
[02:36] <Burgundavia> snow belongs on ski hills
[02:36] <Burgundavia> not on driveways
[02:36] <jsgotangco> poo in snow is bad
[02:37] <mdke> good point
[02:37] <xhosa> oook Kubuntu rocks
[02:37] <Burgundavia> xhosa, you are still froud
[02:37] <jsgotangco> i was thinking of a good motto for us to think about when doing stuff
[02:37] <Burgundavia> stop astroturfing
[02:37] <xhosa> yep
[02:37] <claude> mdke: Chaux-de-Fonds (Neuchatel)
[02:37] <jsgotangco> I can only think of one
[02:37] <jsgotangco> PUU - People Use Ubuntu
[02:37] <jsgotangco> but i want something much better
[02:38] <mdke> jsgotangco, just put on eye of the tiger or something
[02:38] <Burgundavia> UPYOURS
[02:38] <jsgotangco> in spongebob its POOP - People Order Our Patty
[02:38] <Burgundavia> Ubuntu People Yes Our Ubuntu Rocks
[02:38] <mdke> S
[02:39] <jsgotangco> UP YOURS
[02:39] <jsgotangco> ?
[02:39] <Burgundavia> UPYOURS - Ubuntu People Yes Our Ubuntu Rocks
[02:40] <mdke> so what's going on?
[02:40] <jsgotangco> but i was thinking of having the end user in mind to remind us
[02:40] <mdke> it looks like we're having some kind of meeting ;)
[02:41] <xhosa> Hmm, I am considering ditching my SuSE for Kubuntu
[02:41] <jsgotangco> how is kubuntu? i gotta try that next week
[02:42] <xhosa> jsgotangco: very smooth
[02:43] <froud> jsgotangco: definately worth downloading the iso
[02:43] <claude> froukde :)
[02:43] <jsgotangco> I WILL :D
[02:43] <mdke> it cohabits happily with gnome right?
[02:44] <jsgotangco> jridell did a good job i heard
[02:44] <jsgotangco> i like the 3 dragons
[02:44] <jsgotangco> they should keep that
[02:44] <froud> yes
[02:45] <mdke> yes it cohabits with gnome?
[02:45] <froud> but once you use it you will unistall your gnome
[02:45] <froud> :-)
[02:45] <mdke> so how does it work, I keep using gdm?
[02:45] <jsgotangco> i think kdm has much better handling for other de
[02:45] <jsgotangco> compared to gdm
[02:46] <froud> agreed
[02:46] <froud> http://www.kubuntu.org.uk/documentation.php
[02:47] <jsgotangco> the the wireless monitor in kde works even with ndiswrapper..it doesnt work with our gnome
[02:48] <mdke> ok that's a good document
[02:48] <mdke> but no way vis-a-verse is a real word :p
[02:48] <mdke> ok i'll try installing it on my laptop
[02:49] <jsgotangco> whoa froud you did this by yourself?
[02:49] <mdke> is it going to be hard to remove it afterwards?
[02:49] <jsgotangco> i dont think so
[02:50] <jsgotangco> your gnome settings still are there (mostly)
[02:51] <mdke> huh? mostly?
[02:51] <jsgotangco> well thats what i experienced in mdk b4
[02:51] <mdke> what did you lose?
[02:53] <jsgotangco> not much of an impact but i dont remember specifically but with apt it wont be much of a problem i guess
[02:53] <jsgotangco> what does KGX mean?
[02:53] <mdke> apt is not great at removing things
[02:56] <jsgotangco> oohh charles got married *grin*
[02:56] <mdke> yeah
[02:57] <jsgotangco> im not that familiar with euro monarchs but camilia looks like that guy from rolling stones
[03:04] <mdke> how dare you insult my country
[03:04] <mdke> mick jagger is a lot better looking than her
[03:05] <claude> lol
[03:05] <jsgotangco> hahah
[03:06] <jsgotangco> does she become queen when charles becomes king?
[03:07] <mdke> i've stopped listening to that part of the news
[03:07] <mdke> but i think so
[03:07] <jsgotangco> their marriage got in between the pope and rainier's death
[03:14] <daven> no, she gets a funny title
[03:15] <daven> "Princess Consort"
[03:20] <daven> which means she'll never become queen
[03:21] <jsgotangco> good thing theyll never have kids
[03:23] <daven> i think they're too old
[03:23] <daven> gosh - i *hope* they're too old
[03:26] <jsgotangco> jeezz i know im going to be old like them but thinking about what theyre going to do later gives me goosebumps
[03:29] <froud> nrings new meaning to the phrase "long live the queen"
[04:02] <jsgotangco> ahhh children are gods gift indeed
[04:03] <froud> getting close to commiting new make system in branch
[04:03] <froud> must do testing tonight
[04:03] <froud> then commit
[04:03] <froud> hope I dont delete all the files on your hard disks
[04:04] <jsgotangco> ok ive been reading thru that link you gave me and learning a lot
[04:04] <froud> which svn book
[04:04] <froud> it is a must read
[04:13] <froud> we missed you buddy
[04:16] <enrico> hi!
[04:23] <jsgotangco> its been a while
[04:45] <jsgotangco> goodnite everyone
[04:45] <froud> good night
[05:22] <froud> enrico: do you want the english document to be in C?
[05:22] <froud> enrico: or is the root of the working folder?
[05:23] <enrico> froud: no idea
[05:23] <froud> enrico: each i18n document will have its own dir
[05:23] <froud> what is easier for packaging?
[05:23] <enrico> philosophically, I'd like every language to have its own directory
[05:24] <froud> ok we are using the ISO naming convention fr, ca, de etc you want english doc in en
[05:24] <enrico> for packaging, I'm doing so many rearranging at deb-build time that I tend to believe anything is fine :)
[05:24] <froud> yeah I want to reduce the rearranging
[05:24] <froud> cut down on over head
[05:25] <enrico> It mainly depends how it'll need to be installed in the resulting system
[05:25] <enrico> the bigger problems were the links to ../lib and so on (and I needed to do lots of symlinks)
[05:25] <enrico> I don't know if we can foresee what destination will be for Breezy
[05:26] <enrico> (although we could assume that it's the same as now
[05:26] <enrico> )
[05:26] <froud> I have many libs now
[05:26] <enrico> in which case, we have problems anyway in sharing images
[05:27] <froud> one for common, one for gnome, one for kde, one for generic
[05:27] <froud> menu system is lang specific and auto built
[05:27] <enrico> awesome
[05:28] <froud> Ok I will leave the en doc in the root of the working folder
[05:28] <froud> that way it is easier to find for authors
[05:28] <froud> and denotes that it is the driver for all else
[05:29] <froud> btw, OMF files are also created dynamic on first instance
[05:29] <froud> I think we should keep OMF files with their documents
[05:29] <froud> last time we forgot to translate them
[05:30] <froud> we had to rush it at the last second
[05:30] <enrico> in that case, call it C
[05:30] <enrico> yes, exactly.  OMF files should not be separate
[05:31] <froud> OK C it will be
[05:32] <froud> if I make the dir it saves you having to make it, right?
[05:33] <enrico> froud: say it again?
[05:34] <enrico> ah, ok
[05:34] <froud> if we develop the english document is C it saves you having to make it
[05:34] <enrico> y..yess
[05:34] <froud> In build I will create gnome/docuname/C/
[05:35] <froud> gnome/docuname/fr/
[05:35] <froud> gnome/docuname/de/
[05:35] <froud> etc
[05:35] <enrico> yes
[05:35] <froud> ok cool, so glad you are back :-)
[05:35] <enrico> Limited time, though
[05:35] <froud> huh why?
[05:35] <enrico> now I'm in a bit of information overload.
[05:35] <enrico> also
[05:36] <enrico> full time job getting more and more full time
[05:36] <froud> ouch I think I better learn the deb packaging stuff, sooner than later. Must find time though
[05:36] <froud> first get the new restructure over
[05:36] <enrico> froud: you do already a lot with the docbook stuff :)
[05:37] <froud> practically making everything automatic
[05:37] <froud> only one problem
[05:37] <froud> cant make a single document
[05:37] <froud> have to build all gnome
[05:37] <froud> or kde
[05:37] <froud> or generic
[05:37] <froud> :-(
[05:38] <froud> must find method
[05:38] <enrico> how come?
[05:39] <froud> each do now will have a file called modvars.make
[05:39] <froud> looks like this
[05:39] <froud> BUILD_FILE=/index.html
[05:39] <froud> HTML_XSL=../libs/about-ubuntu-html-cust.xsl
[05:39] <froud> FIG_DIR=../images
[05:39] <froud> DOC_NAME=about-ubuntu
[05:39] <froud> LANG=C
[05:39] <froud> OMF_FILE=$DOC_NAME-$LANG.omf
[05:39] <froud> SUBJECT="General|Linux|Distributions|Other"
[05:39] <froud> IDENTIFIER=file:///usr/share/gnome/help/$DOC_NAME/$LANG/$DOC_NAME.xml
[05:39] <froud> SERIES_ID=7fb11226-8a1d-11d9-9fcf-ff970c259736
[05:39] <froud> it gets sourced from the top make
[05:39] <froud> the code that does the work is generic
[05:40] <froud> so it can be applied to generic, kde and gnome
[05:40] <froud> I just need to find a way of passing a single module to the code
[05:41] <enrico> I can't look at it now (brain exploding), but a general suggestion: don't overdesign
[05:41] <mdke> lol
[05:41] <froud> sure, can be a problem
[05:42] <froud> what you loling at mdke 
[05:42] <mdke> poor enrico
[05:42] <froud> you can lol when you come to kde
[05:42] <mdke> i'm just logging in now
[05:42] <mdke> laughing out loud at the time its taking to login
[05:42] <mdke> omg
[05:42] <mdke> and also lol @ login sound
[05:42] <froud> cool 
[05:42] <enrico> froud: also look at http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?YouArentGonnaNeedIt
[05:43] <froud> everything I now impliment is from the experience with hoary
[05:44] <enrico> froud: that's always a good read :)
[05:44] <froud> we had to mant things to touch in the make and packaging for my liking
[05:44] <enrico> but that's not an opinion on what you're doing: I trust what you do
[05:44] <froud> sure
[05:44] <froud> there are howver things poping in between my ears, but we have not needed them, yet
[05:45] <froud> mdke run KControl dude
[05:45] <froud> and see the power
[05:45] <mkde> lol
[05:45] <mkde> i'm familiar with kde
[05:45] <enrico> froud: :)  yes, when something's not needed, it's useful to postpone it
[05:45] <enrico> or to not thing about it
[05:46] <enrico> because when it'll be needed, it'll be needed in a different way you are thinking of coding it today :)
[05:46] <froud> enrico: you know me I am lazy as hell
[05:46] <froud> script everything, that's the way to get out of work and go to the beach
[05:46] <enrico> then at the beach you get a mobile phone ring saying that the script broke :)
[05:47] <mdke> argh
[05:47] <mdke> kde has inserted a wastebin on my gnome desktop
[05:47] <enrico> (that's why you never should go to the beach with the mobile phone.  Bullshit that it's because of the sand :)
[05:47] <froud> lol
[05:48] <froud> gnome should have a wastebin on the desktop. Its a design flaw of gnome, not KDE
[05:48] <mdke> *cough*
[05:48] <froud> hey I got scripts to write
[05:48] <mdke> its a bug in ubuntu
[05:49] <froud> yes, not Kubuntu
[05:49] <froud> c ya
[05:49] <mdke> froud, i do not distinguish
[05:49] <froud> back to scripts
[05:49] <mdke> k
[05:50] <froud> enrico: can I call a make target from within a make target
[05:51] <froud> 1:
[05:51] <froud> .....
[05:51] <froud> make 2:
[05:51] <enrico> sure
[05:51] <froud> OK
[05:51] <enrico> $(MAKE) 2 is better, I think
[05:56] <froud> enrico: like this
[05:56] <froud> all: gnome kde generic
[05:56] <froud> gnome:
[05:56] <froud> 
[05:56] <froud> 	DIR = `ls -d gnome/`
[05:56] <froud> 	SUB_DIR = `ls -d $DIR*/`
[05:56] <froud> 	BUILD_DIR = $(BUILDBASE)/$(DIR)
[05:56] <froud> 	make build
[05:56] <froud> kde:
[05:56] <froud> 	DIR = `ls -d kde/`
[05:56] <froud> 	SUB_DIR = `ls -d $DIR*/`
[05:57] <froud> 	BUILD_DIR = $(BUILDBASE)/$(DIR)
[05:57] <froud> 	make build
[05:57] <froud> generic:
[05:57] <froud> 	DIR = `ls -d generic/`
[05:57] <froud> 	SUB_DIR = `ls -d $DIR*/`
[05:57] <froud> 	BUILD_DIR = $(BUILDBASE)/$(DIR)
[05:57] <froud> 	make build
[05:57] <froud> build:
[05:58] <enrico> I think it should work
[05:59] <froud> OK where build is the same object code for each make target
[05:59] <froud> and build loads modvars.make from each document in for loop
[06:04] <mdke> does anyone here know how to call ssh commands with a particular key? I haven't had an answer in #ubuntu so am trying here in desperation
[06:06] <enrico> froud: actually, you should do it differently
[06:07] <enrico> you rename modvars.make in Makefile
[06:07] <froud> ok
[06:07] <enrico> then include a makefile snipped with the common stuff
[06:07] <enrico> then make the makefile in the upper dir invoke the makefiles in the lower sones
[06:08] <froud> but then I have multiple make files
[06:08] <enrico> then if you want to only build or validate something, you cd into something ad do "make"
[06:08] <enrico> sure
[06:08] <froud> each needing attention
[06:08] <enrico> every project has a makefile per directory
[06:08] <enrico> not much attention, because they all define a bunch of vars (like your modvars.make do) then include THE makefile stuff
[06:08] <enrico> from one single point
[06:09] <froud> but for example about ubuntu uses a different XSL
[06:09] <enrico> then you define the XSL name in the Makefile of about-ubuntu
[06:09] <enrico> all the others use a default XSL file
[06:10] <froud> Hmmm, ok must think about it. I can always split what I am doing now to work that way
[06:10] <enrico> make does all the things of fixing paths to point to .., ../.. or whatever depending on the level of nesting (IIRC)
[06:11] <froud> Ok what I will do is hack this way and then commit. that way more eyes can see it.
[06:11] <froud> foood, grub, nosh time
[06:12] <froud> back in a few minutes
[07:25] <scorpix> hi
[07:28] <froud> scorpix: hello
[07:29] <scorpix> what program is good for translating the ubuntuguide.org?
[07:30] <froud> we have ubuntuguide.org in svn and use pot/po via Rosetta
[07:30] <froud> There is not easy way to do it via the web site
[07:30] <froud> if you like you can hack the src and update it to hoary
[07:30] <froud> the doc is currently at warty
[07:30] <scorpix> is there a guide or a howto on using rosseta with svn?
[07:31] <scorpix> cuz i usually use kbabel
[07:31] <froud> not exactly, we have docbook xml src of that doc in svn and make a POT file when it need translation
[07:32] <scorpix> where can i get rosetta?
[07:37] <froud> scorpix: Rosetta is a web app
[07:37] <froud> you get  the pot from there
[07:38] <froud> but if you have svn src you can also just create a pot and do the po you want
[07:38] <froud> using KBabel
[07:38] <froud> but be warned that that doc is currently updated to warty so is out of date
[07:39] <froud> do you want to translate the hoaryy version?
[07:39] <froud> or the current version
[07:54] <scorpix> back
[07:54] <scorpix> yes i want to translate the hoary version
[08:38] <froud> scorpix: the hoary version does not exist
[08:39] <froud> we need to port the warty version to hoary
[08:39] <froud> scorpix: if you feel like doing that then the src is in svn see http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocumentationTeam as your starting point
[09:03] <mdke> woa
[09:03] <mdke> early to bed ;)