[05:57] <jsgotangco> hi
[08:03] <jsgotangco> bbl
[11:39] <froud> African Greetings
[11:48] <Burgundavia> salut
[12:15] <mdke> morning all
[12:15] <froud> noon
[12:15] <mdke> hi froud 
[12:30] <mdke> hi daven 
[12:31] <daven> hiya
[12:40] <mdke> dudes the new wiki is up
[12:41] <Burgundavia> what sort of new wiki?
[12:43] <mdke> a moin one
[12:43] <mdke> you remember that one mark was talking about
[12:43] <mdke> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/
[12:45] <daven> hmmm. is ubuntu very big "down under"?
[12:46] <mdke> not sure
[12:46] <mdke> its just where their next meeting is
[12:46] <mdke> they have quite a few developers from there
[12:47] <Burgundavia> jeff waugh is aussie
[12:47] <mdke> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UbuntuWorldWide
[12:47] <daven> ah ok.
[12:52] <mdke> not bad that wiki
[12:52] <daven> small but well-formed :)
[12:52] <Burgundavia> hmm
[12:53] <Burgundavia> sorry, but it is not really doing it for me
[12:53] <mdke> heh
[12:53] <mdke> you don't like it more than zwiki?
[12:53] <Burgundavia> I don't see any improvements
[12:53] <mdke> it supports macros for a start
[12:54] <Burgundavia> I guess I am spoiled when it comes to wikis
[12:55] <mdke> :p
[12:55] <Burgundavia> a bit like using a ferrari
[12:56] <Burgundavia> the diff between a ford taurus and toyota tercel is not that much
[12:56] <Burgundavia> because the tercel is a nicer car, but not that much
[12:57] <mdke> haven't heard of either of em
[12:57] <Burgundavia> taurus is crap american car
[12:57] <mdke> so you're saying MediaWiki is the Ferrari?
[12:57] <Burgundavia> an older one, but yes
[12:58] <daven> it's probably like a renault laguna and a ford mondeo :)
[12:58] <Burgundavia> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Taurus
[12:58] <mdke> ah ok
[12:58] <mdke> the ford mondeo: classic
[12:58] <daven> the renault laguna: funky keyless ignition
[12:58] <daven> hehe
[12:59] <Burgundavia> right
[12:59] <Burgundavia> you crazy euros and your different cars
[12:59] <mdke> lol
[12:59] <mdke> and our crazy currencies
[12:59] <daven> :)
[12:59] <mdke> daven, whereabouts are you from?
[12:59] <daven> southampton, currently...
[12:59] <mdke> aha
[01:00] <daven> i see from your wiki entry that you're in london :)
[01:00] <mdke> heh
[01:00] <mdke> yes
[01:01] <daven> i was thinking about (once i've hung around for a bit) working on some of the wiki pages.  looks like my motive is similar to yours :)
[01:01] <mdke> ah cool
[01:02] <daven> they're generally in pretty good shape compared to some i've seen, tho
[01:02] <Burgundavia> the current wiki is a mess
[01:02] <daven> hmmm. i'm not big on organising wikis
[01:02] <mdke> the documentation is a mess certainly
[01:02] <daven> but the content seems generally well-written?
[01:03] <daven> (i've only had a cursory glance)
[01:03] <mdke> heh that depends ;)
[01:03] <daven> there were a few too many "one does this" for my liking :)
[01:03] <mdke> i'm holding off working on trying to organise the structure because it seems that maybe we'll be moving to a new wiki, dunno
[01:04] <mdke> but the UserDocumentation stuff IMO should be organised into categories, it would make it easier for us to use it in our guides as well
[01:06] <daven> organising the info is the tricky part :)
[01:07] <mdke> yeah
[01:09] <mdke> daven, if you have any thoughts, check out https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/IdeasForNewFrontPageStructure and write em down!
[01:09] <mdke> that would be cool
[01:10] <daven> ok, thanks.  i'll have to try and have a better look through the docs this week
[01:10] <mdke> :)
[01:16] <Burgundavia> mdke, I am not seeing how swapping one wiki engine for another is good thing, unless there is a clear reason
[01:19] <froud> Hmm how long does it take to update https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UbuntuWorldWide
[01:21] <maskie> froud about 15 min
[01:21] <froud> I take it the map takes the long and lat inserted into the Where are you? list
[01:22] <froud> hey maskie I see you on the tip of Africa :-)
[01:22] <maskie> yes beat you to it
[01:22] <froud> I didn't know there a banana biy in the team
[01:23] <mdke> Burgundavia, i tend to agree
[01:24] <mdke> froud, 30 mins i heard
[01:24] <Burgundavia> hmm, there is one other dev in Victoria, and one in Nanaimo
[01:24] <maskie> neither did I froud
[01:25] <froud> maskie: cool, good to know. wonder what he works on
[01:25] <froud> btw maskie how r the cow?
[01:26] <maskie> froud see it is Craig Adams .. know he has a lot to do with OpenOffice here in South Africa
[01:26] <froud> Dong, yes that is him
[01:26] <mdke> hi jsgotangco 
[01:26] <jsgotangco> wassup dawgs
[01:26] <jsgotangco> i mean
[01:27] <jsgotangco> badgers
[01:27] <mdke> talking of linux and badgers...
[01:27] <jsgotangco> Dong?
[01:27] <mdke> you guys seen that article about installing linux on a dead badger and making it into a zombie badger?
[01:28] <Burgundavia> is funny, no?
[01:28] <mdke> yeah seriously
[01:28] <mdke> HM there are few people i can exchange programming stuff with here
[01:28] <mdke> HM i hope he comes back
[01:28] <mdke> HM plus he liked to argue
[01:28] <mdke> whoops
[01:28] <mdke> wrong paste
[01:28] <mdke> http://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/20040405/badger.shtml
[01:30] <Burgundavia> where is that other paste from? if I may ask
[01:30] <mdke> another network lol
[01:32] <mdke> Burgundavia, what time is it ET at the moment do you know?
[01:32] <jsgotangco> hehe the UbuntuWorldWide wiki entry is the favorite among people to delete lately
[01:33] <Burgundavia> 7:33 am
[01:33] <Burgundavia> I assume ET = Eastern time
[01:33] <mdke> jsgotangco, yeah it was deleted again
[01:33] <mdke> Burgundavia, yeah thanks
[01:33] <mdke> nearly time for the golf then
[01:33] <jsgotangco> golf?
[01:34] <jsgotangco> you play golf?
[01:34] <mdke> well not much
[01:34] <mdke> i watch it tho
[01:34] <mdke> you?
[01:34] <jsgotangco> i used to play in the amateur tourneys
[01:34] <jsgotangco> but i lacked sponsors so i wasnt able to make it a serious endeavor
[01:34] <mdke> cool
[01:35] <mdke> i'm quite rubbish
[01:35] <mdke> but its relaxing to watch on a sunday
[01:37] <jsgotangco> the popular sports over here are rubbish
[01:37] <jsgotangco> basketball, volleyball, tennis
[01:38] <mdke> hmm
[01:38] <mdke> i'm all over cricket
[01:38] <jsgotangco> i dont understand that game
[01:38] <mdke> but i quite like american sports
[01:38] <jsgotangco> american football is ok
[01:38] <mdke> yeah i like that
[01:38] <mdke> and baseball
[01:39] <mdke> but cricket is the only sport which is also an art ;)
[01:39] <jsgotangco> i lost interest in the NBA after Jordan left
[01:39] <jsgotangco> there are some euros over here who play that on weekends in a nearby field but i really dont get it
[01:39] <mdke> heh
[01:39] <daven_> all that standing around... ;-)
[01:40] <mdke> mmmm
[01:40] <jsgotangco> yah i even tried buying a cricket game for pc
[01:40] <jsgotangco> i love those football management games though
[01:41] <daven_> do you have "championship manager"? that's pretty popular over here... :)
[01:42] <mdke> yeah i used to play that a bit
[01:42] <jsgotangco> yah thats the one
[01:42] <daven_> i played it a few times in 1993... but the constant updates you had to buy seemed a bit... money-grabbing!
[01:42] <mdke> heh
[01:43] <mdke> i play tetris
[01:43] <jsgotangco> yah you have to get a new version every year
[01:43] <mdke> or download one
[01:43] <mdke> >_>
[01:43] <mdke> <_<
[01:43] <daven_> but an update costs nearly the same as the original game?
[01:43] <daven_> legally, i mean ;-)
[01:44] <mdke> now they're on CM5
[01:44] <mdke> so you have to buy the whole game again
[01:44] <jsgotangco> well the new mmorpgs games are worse..they charge you every month!
[01:44] <daven_> gah!
[01:44] <mdke> heh
[01:44] <mdke> i'm thinking Tiger Woods is gonna do the biz today
[01:44] <jsgotangco> her girl is hot
[01:45] <mdke> yeah?
[01:45] <mdke> his girl?
[01:45] <jsgotangco> i mean his
[01:45] <mdke> woah swedish model?
[01:45] <jsgotangco> yah i read she's swedish somewhere
[01:45] <mdke> omg she's seriously cute
[01:46] <jsgotangco> hehe
[01:47] <jsgotangco> in here, the lack of blondes make men think every blonde is hot
[01:48] <mdke> she is tho
[01:49] <jsgotangco> gaahhh i wouldnt dare think of it anymore my child is a girl
[01:49] <jsgotangco> its karma for me
[01:49] <jsgotangco> hehe
[01:51] <daven> i was wondering how long that would take :)
[01:51] <mdke> daven, /msg nickserv ghost nickname password
[01:52] <daven> right.  i'll just google for that :)
[01:52] <daven> ah, i see.  i'd have to register first.
[01:53] <mdke> yeh
[01:58] <mdke> hmm
[01:59] <jsgotangco> wha?
[01:59] <froud> many commits today
[01:59] <jsgotangco> i did receive a number
[01:59] <jsgotangco> i havent svn up yet though
[02:00] <froud> 11 commits each doing major move and add stuff
[02:00] <froud> well so far only 11, expect another 11 by the time I am finished today
[02:00] <mdke> i tried to experiment with committing the other day
[02:00] <mdke> just as a test
[02:01] <mdke> but it didn't work
[02:01] <jsgotangco> hmm
[02:01] <jsgotangco> you already got your account?
[02:01] <mdke> no idea
[02:01] <froud> mdke: did you get your user account
[02:01] <mdke> but i didn't get that far
[02:01] <mdke> nope
[02:01] <froud> well then how can you commit?
[02:01] <jsgotangco> i think james hasn't made the accounts yet
[02:01] <mdke> froud, yeah i was just testing
[02:01] <froud> no james is too busy stopping the servers from faling over
[02:01] <mdke> i got as far as a text file asking me what i did
[02:02] <froud> Ok -m "some message"
[02:02] <froud> if you add the -m you will not get  that
[02:02] <jsgotangco> bah mdke one word for you eSvn
[02:02] <jsgotangco> :)
[02:02] <mdke> i couldn't save the text file for some reason
[02:03] <froud> it is vi
[02:03] <froud> so i to insert
[02:03] <froud> :w write
[02:03] <mdke> i edited it ok, it was nano
[02:03] <froud> :q quit
[02:03] <mdke> but then when I saved and exited it didn't wk
[02:03] <froud> nano ouch
[02:03] <froud> vi dude, use vi
[02:04] <froud> but I now gave you the better solution -m "......"
[02:04] <mdke> right
[02:04] <mdke> i will
[02:04] <mdke> so then what happens after that?
[02:04] <froud> and as jsgotangco told you eSvn
[02:04] <mdke> is that a gui?
[02:04] <froud> after that it commits
[02:04] <froud> mdke: yes a front end to svn
[02:04] <jsgotangco> yah however its kde not that kde is bad
[02:04] <mdke> god you two and your guis
[02:05] <froud> well you can suffer or you can get productive
[02:05] <mdke> froud, so how do you specify your user account?
[02:05] <jsgotangco> bah no need to go hardcore on svn the gui works the same and much better
[02:05] <froud> on your first commit from the cli
[02:05] <jsgotangco> i just changed my editor settings and i have 2 workspaces
[02:05] <froud> you will be prompted for user name
[02:05] <mdke> froud, right cool
[02:06] <mdke> wonder why i couldn't save that text file
[02:06] <froud> from there it will take your pgp key 
[02:06] <froud> you weren'tusing eSvn :-)
[02:06] <mdke> meh
[02:06] <mdke> call me old fashioned
[02:07] <mdke> but i like learning how things work
[02:07] <froud> call me productive
[02:07] <froud> in eSvn you get o see the commands
[02:07] <froud> and so you learn faster
[02:07] <jsgotangco> you learn stuff in eSvn heck i learned the purpose of blame
[02:07] <froud> in eSvn you can also use the command prompt
[02:07] <mdke> froud, you can be old fashioned and productive
[02:07] <jsgotangco> froud did a good manual on eSvn
[02:08] <froud> mdke: why use cli when you can have GUI and CLI in one solid app
[02:09] <mdke> why not?
[02:09] <froud> well eSvn does svn status for you
[02:09] <jsgotangco> id rather multitask
[02:09] <froud> you can see file status
[02:09] <froud> and you can quickly construct complex commands
[02:10] <jsgotangco> gSvn lol
[02:10] <mdke> there is one
[02:10] <jsgotangco> no shit
[02:10] <mdke> why what's wrong with it?
[02:10] <froud> eSvn is so far ahead
[02:11] <jsgotangco> i think its not even alpha
[02:11] <mdke> At the moment, gsvn has been mostly abandoned by its original authors, due to lack of time. The history of the project goes like this:
[02:11] <froud> even has supprt for svn 1.1 which enrico tells me elmo is about to upgrade to
[02:11] <jsgotangco> im installing kubuntu tommorow
[02:11] <froud> cool another KDE dude
[02:12] <mdke> i installed it yesterday
[02:12] <mdke> but i still don't like it
[02:12] <froud> and now mdke has the power to control his desktop
[02:13] <mdke> slowly
[02:13] <jsgotangco> i still think kde has better tools
[02:13] <froud> +1
[02:13] <jsgotangco> ive flirted with gnome long enough
[02:13] <mdke> -1
[02:14] <jsgotangco> spatial is too arcane for me
[02:14] <froud> yep
[02:14] <froud> who needs it
[02:16] <froud> Konqueror just makes sense and things are nicely integrated
[02:16] <mdke> gnome is home
[02:16] <mdke> (TM)
[02:16] <froud> lost souls use gnome
[02:17] <jsgotangco> sure but even if im in kde i can still document stuff using a live cd
[02:17] <mdke> thats just a coincidence
[02:17] <mdke> jsgotangco, or log into gnome
[02:17] <froud> jsgotangco: you can also use qemu
[02:17] <jsgotangco> slack ditched gnome
[02:17] <mdke> use ubuntu?
[02:18] <mdke> how can a distro ditch gnome?
[02:18] <froud> easy
[02:18] <mdke> i dont' have any time for distros that do that
[02:18] <jsgotangco> *grin*
[02:18] <mdke> that's why I'm glad ubuntu has packaged kde in main
[02:18] <mdke> everything should be there :)
[02:19] <jsgotangco> does the dvd image have everything in main?
[02:19] <mdke> guess so
[02:19] <jsgotangco> froud: how big is the kubuntu team
[02:19] <froud> small
[02:19] <froud> but we can do more cause of kde
[02:20] <froud> but kde in general is huge in europe
[02:20] <jsgotangco> well i dont think kubuntu needs a huge team because the core is still ubuntu its just a de specific release
[02:20] <mdke> nuhuh
[02:20] <mdke> kde is in ubuntu
[02:21] <mdke> but i don't think the team needs to be that large, as long as upstream is good :)
[02:21] <froud> we should call them ubuntu, gubuntu and kubuntu
[02:21] <mdke> froud, you're so divisive
[02:21] <mdke> its all ubuntu
[02:21] <froud> no it aint
[02:21] <mdke> :)))
[02:21] <mdke> yes it is
[02:21] <froud> ubuntu has no desktop
[02:22] <froud> gubuntu has a gnome desktop
[02:22] <mdke> omg
[02:22] <froud> kubuntu has a kde desktop
[02:22] <froud> :-)
[02:22] <mdke> ubuntu is a linux distro, on which you can install whatever the hell desktop you like
[02:22] <mdke> gnome, kde, xfce, etc
[02:22] <froud> xubuntu
[02:22] <mdke> or no desktop
[02:22] <jsgotangco> gaahhh
[02:22] <jsgotangco> no thats too much
[02:23] <froud> wmubuntu
[02:23] <mdke> you don't see kgentoo or icewmgentoo
[02:23] <mdke> its all gentoo
[02:23] <mdke> just like its all ubuntu
[02:23] <froud> perhaps that is the problem
[02:23] <mdke> why?
[02:23] <mdke> kde works nicely on my ubuntu
[02:24] <mdke> well maybe not nicely, but properly
[02:24] <froud> ubuntu should be about server
[02:24] <froud> g/kubuntu should be about desktops
[02:24] <jsgotangco> at the moment when people say ubuntu
[02:24] <mdke> froud, please tell me you're not serious...
[02:24] <jsgotangco> they say its desktop
[02:24] <froud> It's a marketing thang
[02:24] <jsgotangco> but Ubuntu isnt just a desktop
[02:25] <jsgotangco> i think thats what he means
[02:25] <jsgotangco> the perception right now is that Ubuntu is a dekstop distro much like linspire and xandros
[02:25] <froud> From a marketing perspective it would be good to promote ubuntu as a server
[02:25] <daven> i have been seeing ubuntu as a nicely finished desktop alternative to debian
[02:25] <daven> although i'm beginning to realise i'm slightly off the mark :)
[02:26] <mdke> froud, i couldn't disagree more strongly
[02:26] <jsgotangco> expect the reviews for Ubuntu as a desktop
[02:26] <froud> when you install Kubuntu you can disable the desktop with server option
[02:26] <froud> the same for gubuntu
[02:27] <froud> so ubuntu = server
[02:27] <mdke> froud, are you really serious?
[02:27] <mdke> or just playing
[02:27] <froud> it's an idea
[02:27] <jsgotangco> its good marketing
[02:27] <mdke> its terrible
[02:27] <mdke> ubuntu is a linux distribution
[02:27] <froud> not from a marketing perspective
[02:27] <mdke> i think so
[02:28] <mdke> you don't need to market distributions separately for different uses
[02:28] <mdke> server admins can decide on their own what they want to use
[02:28] <froud> people who want a server dont want to download an iso that has stuff for desktop
[02:28] <jsgotangco> but people perceive it as a desktop thing which is not
[02:28] <mdke> froud, why not?
[02:28] <mdke> its only a couple of hours more on 250kbits
[02:28] <froud> dont have desktop on a server
[02:28] <mdke> yeah, but you just don't install the desktop
[02:29] <mdke> anyway, the cds are sent for free
[02:29] <froud> in many countries bandwidth costs
[02:29] <mdke> but if you're running a server, you have bandwidth
[02:29] <froud> not in every case
[02:29] <mdke> then you get the cd sent
[02:29] <jsgotangco> that would take time
[02:30] <mdke> they you improve the cd sending system
[02:30] <froud> many people get x bandwidth in their subscription and then must pay for anyting above that
[02:30] <mdke> *then
[02:30] <froud> come on mdke admit it, it is a good marketing thing
[02:30] <mdke> there is no point forking the distribution three ways for that
[02:30] <mdke> froud, no i really disagree
[02:30] <froud> who said ther eis a fork
[02:30] <mdke> that is what you are suggesting basically
[02:31] <froud> no
[02:31] <jsgotangco> its the same base
[02:31] <froud> kubuntu is not a fork
[02:31] <jsgotangco> there is no fork
[02:31] <jsgotangco> just different DE
[02:31] <jsgotangco> like there is no spoon *grin*
[02:31] <mdke> froud, i'm the one arguing kubuntu is not a fork, you are saying it is
[02:32] <froud> no kubuntu is not a fork
[02:32] <mdke> good
[02:32] <froud> its all in the packaging
[02:32] <jsgotangco> i got his point
[02:32] <froud> if you want ubuntu with kde get kubuntu
[02:32] <mdke> froud, ok listen, i'm not saying its a bad idea to make a minimal iso cd
[02:32] <jsgotangco> just like how windows does their OS recently
[02:32] <froud> if you want ubuntu with gnome with gnome get gubuntu
[02:32] <froud> if you want niether get ubuntu
[02:33] <mdke> ok if you're just talking about making iso's then i can agree with you
[02:33] <Burgundavia> froud, WorldWide has been updated
[02:33] <froud> so you could just install ubuntu and when you want a desktop apt-get install kubuntu-desktop
[02:33] <mdke> although personally i would prefer "ubuntu-minimal, ubuntu-gnome, ubuntu-kde"
[02:34] <mdke> because ubuntu-minimal could be for server, net-install etc
[02:34] <froud> oh wow I am on the map
[02:34] <Burgundavia> I am too, but I am hidden by others in my area
[02:34] <froud> yes, but those names dont go well for marketing
[02:35] <mdke> Burgundavia, i see you fine
[02:35] <mdke> froud, my name for marketing would be ubuntu
[02:35] <mdke> the names would just be for the purpose of making iso's with different things on
[02:36] <Burgundavia> cya
[02:36] <jsgotangco> bah just name it Ubuntu, Ubuntu w/ KDE and Ubuntu w/ Gnome
[02:36] <mdke> froud, the reason everyone _thinks_ kubuntu is a fork is that it is marketed as a separate OS
[02:36] <froud> well it is in a way
[02:37] <mdke> see? Don't come telling me you don't see kubuntu as a fork
[02:37] <froud> it is not a fork, but it is a different OS
[02:37] <mdke> because you do
[02:37] <froud> no I dont
[02:37] <froud> it is a different version of the distro
[02:37] <mdke> it is regarded as two different distributions
[02:37] <mdke> especially because it has a separate entry on distrowatch
[02:37] <froud> it is a different distro
[02:38] <mdke> different distro = fork
[02:38] <mdke> = sucks
[02:38] <froud> no 
[02:38] <mdke> you damn divisive kde users
[02:38] <froud> it is not a fork
[02:38] <mdke> ubuntu couldn't just have a kde team, it had to have a different distro
[02:38] <froud> a fork is when the code slpits and nver merges, they grow apart over time
[02:38] <mdke> ok well my language is sloppy
[02:39] <froud> it is a different distro
[02:39] <mdke> i believe strongly it isn't a different distro
[02:39] <froud> the details are in the sematics
[02:39] <jsgotangco> err how could it be different if its using the same stuff in main/universe?
[02:39] <froud> semantics
[02:39] <mdke> jsgotangco, quite
[02:39] <mdke> froud, or as you call it, marketing
[02:40] <froud> marketing dudes
[02:40] <mdke> anyway it is divisive and it sucks
[02:40] <jsgotangco> what a big Riddell we have
[02:40] <jsgotangco> *grin*
[02:40] <froud> I think it makes clear distinction in the users mind
[02:40] <mdke> hmm
[02:41] <mdke> it doesn't matter for now, but in the future it is important
[02:41] <mdke> either ubuntu will continue to be marketed as a gnome reliant distro, or it will turn into a real distro with choice
[02:41] <froud> if we have gnome and kde on the same cd we will need to ship two cd's
[02:41] <jsgotangco> our release notes say we will have a choice (soon)
[02:41] <mdke> as i said, its cool to have different cds
[02:42] <mdke> one with gnome as default, one with kde, one without
[02:42] <froud> now that is what I am saying
[02:42] <froud> but for distinction it  should be gubuntu
[02:42] <mdke> but if you kubuntu users get on your high horse and do this "different distro" stuff, ubuntu will never be a proper distro with choice, it will remain "gnome reliant"
[02:42] <froud> Not true
[02:43] <mdke> IYO
[02:43] <froud> much stuff goes from kubuntu to ubuntu
[02:43] <jsgotangco> i like dragons
[02:43] <froud> breath of fire
[02:44] <froud> no toe jam
[02:44] <mdke> froud, you mean it isn't true that ubuntu is gnome reliant? If that is the case, then making the distinction is even more counterproductive
[02:44] <froud> no ubuntu is marketed as gnome
[02:44] <mdke> i know
[02:44] <mdke> but it shouldn't be
[02:44] <froud> it should be marketed as a server
[02:45] <mdke> it should be marketed as a distro which does lots of things
[02:45] <froud> if you want server penetration then you need it
[02:45] <mdke> ok
[02:45] <froud> the objective on all fronts is mass adoption
[02:45] <mdke> well i think we've both made our opinions clear, we can stop now
[02:45] <froud> whatever increases adoption
[02:45] <mdke> agree to disagree
[02:45] <froud> sure
[02:45] <mdke> although i will say one more thing
[02:46] <mdke> doing whatever it takes to increase adoption is not the right attitude IMO
[02:46] <jsgotangco> well Debian isnt considered a desktop or server distro
[02:46] <jsgotangco> its just Debian
[02:46] <mdke> and is inconsistent with the Ubuntu spirit
[02:46] <froud> yes, mdke you can have the last word
[02:46] <froud> back to work for me
[02:46] <mdke> hey
[02:46] <jsgotangco> i think thats what Ubuntu should be
[02:46] <mdke> i didn't mean it like that
[02:46] <mdke> froud, i was just replying to your mass adoption point
[02:47] <froud> just teasing you mdke :-) it's only an idea
[02:47] <mdke> hmm
[02:47] <jsgotangco> hey look
[02:47] <jsgotangco> i found this on sladen's site
[02:47] <jsgotangco> We picked GNOME, but I recognise that there are alot of people out there who love KDE and I'm working as hard as I can to encourage the KDE community to do their own version of Ubuntu.
[02:48] <jsgotangco> *grin*
[02:48] <jsgotangco> sabdfl
[02:48] <mdke> pah
[02:49] <jsgotangco> The next thing really has alot to do with gaining a critical-mass of users. I really do believe that if we have wide-spread adoption, even if that's wide-spread adoptionnot specifically of Ubuntu, but of one of the Ubuntu-related products or derivative distributionsthat within that critical mass of users we will be able to generate revenue without charging for the software or doing offensive stuff like forcing particular software c
[02:49] <mdke> jsgotangco, he is a businessman
[02:49] <jsgotangco> *grin*
[02:49] <mdke> anyway this "mass adoption" business is overrated
[02:50] <jsgotangco> resistance is futile....hahaha
[02:50] <jsgotangco> kidding
[02:50] <jsgotangco> ok lets stop this
[02:50] <mdke> group hug
[02:50] <jsgotangco> before we become ubuntu-docs-gnome and ubuntu-docs-kde
[02:50] <mdke> heh
[02:50] <jsgotangco> im not into male bonding
[02:50] <jsgotangco> hehe
[02:50] <jsgotangco> ok group hug
[02:54] <jsgotangco> ok im outta here i gotta get up early tommorow
[02:54] <jsgotangco> bye guys
[02:54] <mdke> bye
[03:23] <lizardking> hello
[03:23] <lizardking> somebody?
[03:52] <sladen> mdke: Ubuntu is like washing powder, if you're the one company that owns *both* brands you'll get twice as many customers...
[10:56] <mdke> sladen, heh
[10:56] <mdke> sladen, as i said before, its not about getting as many customers as possible
[10:57] <sladen> hello
[10:59] <mdke> hi
[10:59] <mdke> sorry for the 8 hour lag
[11:05] <mdke> wb
[11:40] <mkde> night Kinnison