/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/04/24/#ubuntu-doc.txt

=== daven [~davesheep@83.148.133.161.adsl.griffin.net.uk] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== EricNeon [~ericneon@203.148.3.94] has joined #ubuntu-doc
EricNeonmorning all~02:43
=== jsgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc
jsgotangcohelllo04:18
Eric|UbuntuDochi04:23
Eric|UbuntuDocI'm translating Hoary StarterGuide into Chinese04:25
jsgotangcowooo04:26
jsgotangcothrough Rosetta?04:26
Eric|UbuntuDocRosetta04:30
Eric|UbuntuDocnoI do it in ours Wiki04:30
Eric|UbuntuDochttp://wiki.ubuntu.org.cn/index.php/Hoarystarterguide/document_view04:30
=== Burgundavia [~corey@24.68.134.11] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== Skywind [~Skywind@218.94.37.185] has joined #ubuntu-doc
jsgotangcobaahh i forgot the admin of my router07:28
jsgotangcobbl07:28
=== froud-away is now known as froud
froudAfrican Greetings07:47
Burgundaviasalut07:48
BurgundaviaI have a question about repos that you may be able to answer07:48
froudsure07:48
froudjust running the merge into my WC07:48
Burgundaviahttp://people.debian.org/~isaac/wesnoth/07:49
Burgundaviahow would I add this to my sources.list ?07:49
froudyou can do it via synaptic or at the prompt07:49
froudetc/apt/sources.list07:49
froudI think that's the encantation07:50
BurgundaviaI realize taht07:50
Burgundaviabut the issue is taht packages.gz is note in a dir07:50
Burgundaviaie ~/dists/hoary/main07:50
froudHmm, not sure but you just leave out the main07:51
BurgundaviaI tried only 'deb blah'07:52
Burgundaviabut it didn't work07:52
Burgundaviaand then I tried 'deb blah .' and that didn't work07:52
froudnot sure what about . (dot)07:52
Burgundaviahmm07:54
froudwell did that work07:56
=== jsgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc
jsgotangcohallooooeee07:58
Burgundaviasalut07:59
jsgotangcoohh that's nice i think someone has messed up some wiki pages again *groan*08:05
jsgotangcoim beginning to truly hate our wiki08:07
BurgundaviaI already decided I hated our wiki08:07
Burgundaviaand have left well enough alone08:07
jsgotangcoyes we hateses it even more now08:07
jsgotangcois there hope?08:08
Burgundaviathere is always hope my son08:08
Burgundaviawent to my lug today08:08
Burgundavialistened to one of the terrasoft guys talk08:08
Burgundaviaterrasoft = yellow dog08:08
jsgotangcoyah so how was it08:09
Burgundaviapretty good 08:09
Burgundaviadiscussed how ppc port got started08:09
Burgundaviawhere the future is08:09
jsgotangcodo they support genesi pegasos boards?08:10
Burgundaviathey say that genesi pegasos boards are borked08:10
Burgundaviahmm beagled goes boom08:11
jsgotangcooohhhh08:11
Burgundavia3 times, at the same point, so I filed a bug08:11
jsgotangcoyou using beagle now?08:12
Burgundaviayep08:12
Burgundaviais very nice08:12
Burgundaviaand gtk08:12
=== count [count@users.757.org] has joined #ubuntu-doc
jsgotangco<troll>how fast is it compared to KDE apps></troll>08:15
jsgotangcohmmm lots of commits08:48
Burgundaviahmm, still annoyed08:49
jsgotangcooh what?08:49
jsgotangcofroud: are you starting to merge into trunk? i've svn up and seeing new folders08:54
=== sivang [~sivang@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc
froudjsgotangco: yes, I am merging. Just trying to check things09:19
froud[announce]  the restructur branch has been successfully merged back to trunk. everyone can svn up09:23
jsgotangcohmm thats a lot of stuff merged09:31
froudjsgotangco: yes that is why it was in a branch09:32
froudplease do test things, let me know if you think there should be changes09:32
jsgotangcoso there is no branch anymore?09:32
froudthe branch will be depreciated09:33
jsgotangcodid you merge docs for ubuntu and kubuntu?09:33
froudtake a look at the trunk, you will see generic, gnome and kde09:39
jsgotangcoyes my guess is that the kde stuff is actually for kubuntu itself09:40
froudyes rather than refer to ubuntu or kubuntu I decided to go by the upstream09:41
froudthis way if somebody wants another desktop distro based on ubuntu we can add it by its name09:42
jsgotangcobut that means kubuntu will have a very different quick guide as well as other docs but ubuntu and kubuntu will share the other stuff like release notes and about ubuntu, etc.09:43
froudno the only shared stuff is in generic09:43
jsgotangcoahh09:43
froudthis way kubuntu has its own docs and so does gnome09:44
froudbut you still need the whole of trunk to validate09:44
jsgotangcothe kde stuff needs a lot of work i noticed09:48
froudjsgotangco: its the first time we have kde, so it is to be expected. More fun for you and nay other KDE users :-)09:49
jsgotangcothis is fun? lol..hehehehe09:53
=== froud [~froud@ndn-165-157-144.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc
jsgotangcofroud: how does trunk fit in with Rosetta now running?09:57
froudit has support for the languages09:57
jsgotangcotrunk just focuses on core documentation now?09:58
froudHuh? dont understand09:58
jsgotangcotranslated stuff from Rosetta get merged in trunk soon?09:58
froudwe focus on anything that is C09:59
froudtranslations are already trunk09:59
jsgotangcoi mean how about future stuff that will be done in Rosetta09:59
froudyes we give pot they give -nn.po09:59
froudwe make -nn.xml10:00
jsgotangco-nn.po is done by Rosetta right10:00
froudyes the translators take our pot and make a po file in which they write the translation10:03
froudyou already know all this10:03
jsgotangcoyes im just clarifying how rosetta affects trunk10:04
froudit does not, we just make language support easier for final packaging10:04
froudthe i18n process remains the same10:05
froudooops kde inst should be kubuntuadminguide10:19
froudanyone want something to do, they can fix the fileref values in gnome and kde10:21
jsgotangcono habla espanol10:22
jsgotangcobut i will check what that means10:22
froudkde/inst now renamed10:25
froudjsgotangco: where you have imagedata in the documents you have fileref attributes10:25
frouddue to the change in directories the value for each fileref is now wrong and should be corrected10:26
jsgotangco<imagedata fileref="figures/update.png" format="PNG"/>10:27
froudexactly10:27
jsgotangcook so that means revalidate these files as well10:28
froudthe files are all valid, or should be10:28
froudI did a validation10:28
froudbut validation will not know if images have moved10:28
jsgotangcook does konqueror render xml like what yelp does?10:29
froudno, but you can still have yelp installed10:30
=== froud updates https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamProjects
jsgotangcofroud, changing the filerefs should be easy, but what should the correct values be?10:34
froudwhich book are you on10:34
jsgotangcothey dont open in yelp at all10:35
jsgotangcoim looking at kynaptic.xml10:35
froudkynaptic is a special case :-)10:35
jsgotangcook i go to something much more basic10:35
froudfigures/ are relative to the doc10:35
froudsince kynaptic may move upstream one day10:36
jsgotangcook ill just try messing up with gnome docs first to see how its done10:36
froudlogically you will need ../../images/C/foo.png10:37
jsgotangcoare you changing stuff agian?10:45
jsgotangcofroud, do you have any idea why svn up is taking so long10:51
froudjust changed one thing in kde10:52
froudno idea why it takes so long10:52
froudseems fine my side10:52
jsgotangcook10:53
=== jgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== maskie [~maskie@196-30-108-163.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc
Eric|UbuntuDocthe Chinese Hoary StarterGuide had nearly achieve11:03
Burgundaviahmm?11:03
froudEric|UbuntuDoc: achieve .... what we don't understand11:03
jgotangcohe means its almost done11:04
Eric|UbuntuDoco ,~hah 11:04
Eric|UbuntuDocyes ,done11:04
Eric|UbuntuDochttp://wiki.ubuntu.org.cn/index.php/Hoarystarterguide/document_view11:04
jsgotangcowow thats wikimedia11:05
Eric|UbuntuDocyes11:06
froudEric|UbuntuDoc: that's nice but I really wish people would translate the one in svn :-)11:06
jsgotangcoyeah having cn/zh in trunk would be great11:07
froudproblem is it is not easy to port all these wiki formats to docbook11:07
froudand now with new release schedule all these wiki books will not be part of our i18n process11:08
Eric|UbuntuDocWe will do it11:08
Eric|UbuntuDocbut now ,we have not server for svn11:08
jsgotangcofroud, i think the wiki can just stay as it is, but it should have a good flow of info that complements our docbook work11:08
jsgotangcoEric|UbuntuDoc, just use OUR svn11:08
froudEric|UbuntuDoc: yes we have svn for this11:08
froudwe ported english version to docbook11:09
froudand put it in svn see https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamProjects11:09
jsgotangcoeven Rosetta has some Chinese translations already11:09
froudjsgotangco: of what?11:10
Eric|UbuntuDocoh?  cool!11:10
jsgotangcowell in Hoary there are some completed already11:11
jsgotangcoin Rosetta that is11:11
froudjsgotangco: you dont make much sense, translations of what?11:11
Eric|UbuntuDocI spend tow days to translete document11:12
jsgotangcofroud, of applications11:12
froudif they are translations of our docs, stuff in svn, then we need the po files back11:12
froudif it is not our doc stuff then, personally, I am not insterested11:12
froudEric|UbuntuDoc: yes it takes a great effort for translation11:13
froudEric|UbuntuDoc: that is why I want to reduce the effort11:13
Eric|UbuntuDocI add-on a line as "Copyleft (C) 2005 Ubuntu.org.cn" in Chinese Document  :)11:13
jsgotangcofroud, i refer to Hoary apps in https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/hoary/+translations which Eric|UbuntuDoc might be intrested in11:13
froudwe use POT/PO files for translations under Rosetta11:13
froudjsgotangco: ok11:14
jsgotangcofroud, do our docs get into Rosetta?11:14
Burgundaviatherea are some possible issues with the size of strings we have11:14
froudjsgotangco: yes, currently via way of our package11:14
jsgotangcook great11:14
froudBurgundavia: what issues?11:15
BurgundaviaI had heard that rosetta was borking on large strings. I could be wrong11:15
froudBurgundavia: to be expected, it is still a young app11:15
jsgotangcoat least its running now11:16
jsgotangcohmm rosetta's PO file export ain't bad either11:21
EricNeonjsgotangco, you can find a Chinese translater named Carlos Liu in https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/hoary/+translations 11:23
EricNeonhe is just a member of Ubuntu-zh team11:23
jsgotangcoyes11:25
jsgotangcoi see11:25
jsgotangcohmm this is neat..i made a new wc from cli and esvn recognized the new wc when i opened it11:26
=== _froud [~froud@ndn-165-155-230.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc
jsgotangcovery handy indeed11:28
EricNeon:-)11:28
jsgotangco_froud, what is i18n.sh for11:39
_froudIt manages the i18n things11:40
_froudshould work, but needs testing11:40
_froudnot all the scripts work as yet11:40
_froudthat one should11:40
jsgotangcohmm fileref from gnome also needs work11:44
froudwhat are you talking about11:44
froudthe images11:44
jsgotangcoyes11:45
froudya, but we said so already :-)11:45
jsgotangcook forgive me for repeating unnecessarily11:46
jsgotangcook ilm having dinner first12:09
jsgotangcobye bye12:09
froudc ya12:09
EricNeonbye12:10
EricNeonI have to go home12:10
froudEricNeon: OK c ya later12:10
EricNeonmaybe c ya tomorrow12:12
froudcool12:12
=== Cturtle [~Cturtle__@194.178.121.114] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== jjesse [~jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== jsgotangco [DaWorm@dialup-222-126-78-215.infocom.ph] has joined #ubuntu-doc
jsgotangcotadaa04:28
froudjsgotangco: are you then doing the fileref fixes?04:36
jsgotangcoi've already done some04:37
jsgotangcoill just commit them later04:37
froudok do it on a per doc basis04:37
froudthx04:37
jsgotangcoyeah im doing it per doc04:37
jsgotangcobbl04:57
mvirkkilWOW! http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/WhyYouShouldntUseUbuntu05:43
mvirkkilAnd a link to that on the front page05:43
mvirkkilIt has been there for 10 minutes05:43
mvirkkilSomeone should fix that asap and block the senders IP05:45
=== count_ [count@users.757.org] has joined #ubuntu-doc
mdkeomg that is pretty harsh06:47
froudhttp://mpt.net.nz/archive/2005/04/11/ubuntu07:14
mdkehi froud 07:21
mdkeby a canonical employee ;)07:21
=== jeffsch [~jeffsch@fatwire-202-184.uniserve.ca] has joined #ubuntu-doc
jeffschgreetings07:47
jeffschI read the matt thomas blog. he makes some good points on the help system.07:48
froudjjesse: drop the url07:48
froudmdke: hi07:49
mdkefroud, its that one you posted07:49
jeffschfroud: do you mean jeffsch?07:50
froudoh right I did not read who wrote it07:50
froudI think that the critique is good07:50
froudgood to get critique07:50
froudgives you a chance to reflect and make improvements07:51
mdkeyeah07:51
jeffschyes. it's always good to hear from someone outside the docteam07:51
mdkebut a lot of the faults are due to lack of time07:51
mdkeespecially the lack of a userguide07:51
jeffschwe are still a small team07:51
mdkehopefully we can improve by next release07:51
froudone of the great things about open source is that everything is open, even critique07:52
froudthis is a great advantage07:52
froudI would have like http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/WhyYouShouldntUseUbuntu to stay up fo rthis reason07:52
mdkeyeah cool that canonical let him post that07:52
mdkefroud, no that violates the code of conduct imo07:53
froudwell not really07:53
froudit gives breadth of perspective07:53
jeffschi agree with froud. A short reasoned reply from shuttleworth below the screed would be nice07:53
frouda chance to see what another person thinks07:53
mdkeit is not considerate of others and was unnecessarily aggressive07:53
mdkei am all for freedom of expression, its just how it was put that I found unnecessary07:54
froudbut then that is open source07:54
froudanyway I am back to work07:54
mdke<quote>08:04
mdkeMan Pages. Teeheeheehee.08:04
mdke</quote>08:04
mdkehe has a point.08:04
jeffschyes. some would think we need woman pages, just to be fair.08:06
jeffschman pages are old stuff. they should be converted, yes?08:06
mdkewell that sort of title is certainly confusing08:07
froudjeffsch: no they should not, what if you dont have a desktop? How you gonna read GNU command help08:07
jeffschhmm... converted, but not deleted then?08:08
mdkefroud, the point is that there is a "man pages" in the front page of our help dialogue, people who don't know what they are will be confused, and let's face it, those people are the only ones who don't use man pages in a terminal08:08
mdkeat least that's how i interpret his point08:08
froudwell there is an education to using Linux08:09
froudthat's why we need user manual08:09
mdkeyeah08:09
mdkefroud, i wanted to ask you, is the structure of all the manuals sorted? all that is missing is the content?08:09
froudmdke: the merge ws done, so structure is set08:10
froudwe may have small changes, but nothing like waht we had in branch08:10
mdkefroud, i mean the structure of each document itself08:11
froudyou mean outlines08:11
froudoutlines are free to change08:11
mdkeright08:12
mdkeoutlines yeah08:12
mdkefroud, but the bare bones are there?08:12
froudin fact I say that everything is now open for eval08:12
froudsome yes and some no08:12
mdkeright08:12
mdkewill we have meetings to sort out the outlines?08:12
froudthe way I would tackle it is to pick a book that I intend working on08:12
froudthink and think08:13
froudthen propose on the list08:13
froudhack it in the list and then impliment the outline08:13
mdkecool08:13
mdkefroud, also the other thing i wanted to ask is, its cool to use wiki pages for content, i'm thinking of the more stable ones08:13
froudonce we have an outline agreed we should try stick to it as much possible08:13
froudwiki is one type of work svn is another08:14
froudwe often take info from wiki to docbook08:14
froudI dont pay much attention to wiki08:14
mdkeso its a good idea to take content08:14
mdke?08:14
froudyeah why not, so long as you credit08:14
mdkethere are some very good docs, written by good people imo08:14
mdkefroud, difficult to tell who wrote the material08:15
froudsure08:15
froudalso difficult to keep wiki and docbook in sync08:15
froudlinke with Faq guide08:15
mdkefroud, i was thinking that it would be one way, not synching: wiki -> us, improvement on our side, release08:16
froudthat is what we have to do08:16
froudbut we have to agree outlines and then go for it08:16
froudoutline can change +-10% before final release08:17
mdkeright08:17
mdkewell i'm happier if they are already there ;) but I am also happy to think about them08:17
froudduring work we have 1, 2, 3 draft08:17
froudmark nodes with status attribute08:18
froudauthorblurb used for comments08:18
mdkeyeah08:18
mdkei saw those08:18
frouddifferent nodes can be at different status08:18
mdkei looked at esvn yesterday08:18
froudwhen all status = complete08:18
froudcool and what do you think08:19
mdke:|08:19
mdkenot really for me08:19
froudimagine trying to do svn restructure without it08:19
mdkeyeah probly08:19
froudwell ther eyou go08:19
froudhey back to work08:20
mdkeright ok see ya soon08:20
=== maskie [~maskie@196-30-109-220.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== claude [~claude@175.235.62.81.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #ubuntu-doc
froudjeffsch: nice one on the images dude. thanks08:50
jeffschnp08:50
froudthe docs will validated but that does not pickup the images problem caused by restructure :-)08:51
jeffschfroud: concerning the locations for the non english languages: do we keep C, or should we change to fr, ca, etc?08:51
jeffschchanging to fr, ca, etc will highlight that those screen shots are needed.08:51
froudjeffsch: we dont have the screenshots.08:52
=== froud looks at those who volunteered yesterday
mdkewhat?08:52
froudkeep them as C just incase08:52
mdkeyou want them now?08:52
froudwell we're waiting :-)08:53
mdkei'll start doing them in the next few days then08:53
mdkejust everything that is already there right?08:53
froudOh yes no more no less08:53
mdkei was thinking that we'd be waiting until breezy was up and running08:53
froudsame file names08:53
mdkeespecially since the theme will be changing08:53
=== mdke points to mdz discussion
froudthe theme change does not impact on the doc value08:54
froudif we have time we can do it08:54
froudbut doing it now could save us time08:54
jeffschit's good to have *something* there, just so we know what the thing looks like08:54
froudthough I am not convinced we must have i18n screencapts08:55
froudbut if people want then we will give08:55
=== claude insists
froudjeffsch: until we have the images leave i18n08:55
froudoh yes, and jeffsch , claude was the other volunteer08:56
froud:-)08:56
mdkeyeah ok08:56
froudmdke: if you do it keep the same file names08:56
mdkethe other thing, is there no plan to make the things smaller?08:56
mdkefroud, will do08:56
jjessequick question: are we supposed to be working on what is in trunks or in the restructure section?08:56
mdkefroud, they go in the same directory, with -xx ending on names, or in a different directory with same names08:57
froudjeffsch: restructure merged to trunk today08:57
froudmdke: no08:57
mdkefroud, *points at jjesse*08:57
froudexactly the same file name08:57
jjesseso do my work in trunks?08:57
mdkefroud, in the same final?08:57
mdkes/final/folder08:57
mdkeimages/08:57
froudno in the xx folder08:57
jeffschfroud: yes. I updated trunk, right? or did esvn play with my mind?08:57
mdkeoh08:57
froudnot the C folder08:57
froudjjesse: work in trunk08:57
mdkefroud, ok didn't see those yet08:57
jjesseok08:58
mdkefroud, will do08:58
froudmdke: look at trunk and you will see the new structure08:58
mdkeyep kewl08:58
froudi18n docs each have their own folder08:58
jjesseok cool ive been using kubuntu so i'll start looking at the kde stuff08:58
froudkde stuff has next to noting08:58
froudjjesse: we can hash outlines08:59
froudin the list08:59
froudI am just capturing the installation screens08:59
froudwe can use them for kde admin and user guide09:00
jjesseok09:00
froudwe may even be able to use them for gubuntu09:00
mdke/kick froud 09:01
froudwell I am off to bed. Must sleep, feel nackered, my eyes are starting to bleed09:01
jeffschcya09:01
mdkenight09:01
froudjjesse: I think only the first capt of the install will need changing between kubuntu and gubuntu09:01
froudok chow09:01
jjesseok09:02
mdkeafk too09:02
=== jeffsch is away: I'll be back
=== mkde [~matt@mdke.user] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== claude [~claude@253.37.78.83.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #ubuntu-doc
mkdeyo09:20
mkdedamn09:29
mkdedid froud say the images were to be put in gnome_or_kde/images/2lettercountrycode/ ?09:29
=== mkde goes to logs
jjessemust have been before i was signed on09:33
jjessedon't remember09:33
froud-awayif you r working on quickguide fr doc then put them in the quickguide/fr/ folder NOT quickguide/C/ :-)09:35
mdkeso I make the relevant directories myself?09:36
mdkelike images/fr09:37
froud-awayyes there are no fr images so you need a directory09:37
mdkeok cool09:37
froud-awayin images/09:38
mdkedidn't want to create any directories until i was sure ;)09:38
mdkefroud-away, thanks, and gd night09:38
froud-awaybusy installing linux under linux so had sometime09:38
claudemy menus are not very standard09:41
claudedo you know the new way to edit them ?09:41
froud-awaythey are defined in /etc/xdg/menus/09:45
froud-awayyou can edit there or via the menu editor on the desktop09:45
claudemenu editor ?09:46
froud-awayyou in gnome or kde?09:48
claudeseems /etc/xdg/menus doesn't relate to my real menus09:48
claudegnome of course !!09:48
claude;-P09:48
froud-awayah that's your problem09:48
froud-awaycome to kde and you have a nice easy menu editor09:48
froud-awaydunno how to do it in gnome?09:49
claudesomething to do with /usr/share/applications09:51
mkdeooh got my svn account i think11:34
mkdehaven't a clue what it means tho11:34

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!