[02:43] <EricNeon> morning all~
[04:18] <jsgotangco> helllo
[04:23] <Eric|UbuntuDoc> hi
[04:25] <Eric|UbuntuDoc> I'm translating Hoary StarterGuide into Chinese
[04:26] <jsgotangco> wooo
[04:26] <jsgotangco> through Rosetta?
[04:30] <Eric|UbuntuDoc> Rosetta
[04:30] <Eric|UbuntuDoc> noI do it in ours Wiki
[04:30] <Eric|UbuntuDoc> http://wiki.ubuntu.org.cn/index.php/Hoarystarterguide/document_view
[07:28] <jsgotangco> baahh i forgot the admin of my router
[07:28] <jsgotangco> bbl
[07:47] <froud> African Greetings
[07:48] <Burgundavia> salut
[07:48] <Burgundavia> I have a question about repos that you may be able to answer
[07:48] <froud> sure
[07:48] <froud> just running the merge into my WC
[07:49] <Burgundavia> http://people.debian.org/~isaac/wesnoth/
[07:49] <Burgundavia> how would I add this to my sources.list ?
[07:49] <froud> you can do it via synaptic or at the prompt
[07:49] <froud> etc/apt/sources.list
[07:50] <froud> I think that's the encantation
[07:50] <Burgundavia> I realize taht
[07:50] <Burgundavia> but the issue is taht packages.gz is note in a dir
[07:50] <Burgundavia> ie ~/dists/hoary/main
[07:51] <froud> Hmm, not sure but you just leave out the main
[07:52] <Burgundavia> I tried only 'deb blah'
[07:52] <Burgundavia> but it didn't work
[07:52] <Burgundavia> and then I tried 'deb blah .' and that didn't work
[07:52] <froud> not sure what about . (dot)
[07:54] <Burgundavia> hmm
[07:56] <froud> well did that work
[07:58] <jsgotangco> hallooooeee
[07:59] <Burgundavia> salut
[08:05] <jsgotangco> ohh that's nice i think someone has messed up some wiki pages again *groan*
[08:07] <jsgotangco> im beginning to truly hate our wiki
[08:07] <Burgundavia> I already decided I hated our wiki
[08:07] <Burgundavia> and have left well enough alone
[08:07] <jsgotangco> yes we hateses it even more now
[08:08] <jsgotangco> is there hope?
[08:08] <Burgundavia> there is always hope my son
[08:08] <Burgundavia> went to my lug today
[08:08] <Burgundavia> listened to one of the terrasoft guys talk
[08:08] <Burgundavia> terrasoft = yellow dog
[08:09] <jsgotangco> yah so how was it
[08:09] <Burgundavia> pretty good 
[08:09] <Burgundavia> discussed how ppc port got started
[08:09] <Burgundavia> where the future is
[08:10] <jsgotangco> do they support genesi pegasos boards?
[08:10] <Burgundavia> they say that genesi pegasos boards are borked
[08:11] <Burgundavia> hmm beagled goes boom
[08:11] <jsgotangco> oohhhh
[08:11] <Burgundavia> 3 times, at the same point, so I filed a bug
[08:12] <jsgotangco> you using beagle now?
[08:12] <Burgundavia> yep
[08:12] <Burgundavia> is very nice
[08:12] <Burgundavia> and gtk
how fast is it compared to KDE apps></troll>
[08:48] <jsgotangco> hmmm lots of commits
[08:49] <Burgundavia> hmm, still annoyed
[08:49] <jsgotangco> oh what?
[08:54] <jsgotangco> froud: are you starting to merge into trunk? i've svn up and seeing new folders
[09:19] <froud> jsgotangco: yes, I am merging. Just trying to check things
[09:23] <froud> [announce]  the restructur branch has been successfully merged back to trunk. everyone can svn up
[09:31] <jsgotangco> hmm thats a lot of stuff merged
[09:32] <froud> jsgotangco: yes that is why it was in a branch
[09:32] <froud> please do test things, let me know if you think there should be changes
[09:32] <jsgotangco> so there is no branch anymore?
[09:33] <froud> the branch will be depreciated
[09:33] <jsgotangco> did you merge docs for ubuntu and kubuntu?
[09:39] <froud> take a look at the trunk, you will see generic, gnome and kde
[09:40] <jsgotangco> yes my guess is that the kde stuff is actually for kubuntu itself
[09:41] <froud> yes rather than refer to ubuntu or kubuntu I decided to go by the upstream
[09:42] <froud> this way if somebody wants another desktop distro based on ubuntu we can add it by its name
[09:43] <jsgotangco> but that means kubuntu will have a very different quick guide as well as other docs but ubuntu and kubuntu will share the other stuff like release notes and about ubuntu, etc.
[09:43] <froud> no the only shared stuff is in generic
[09:43] <jsgotangco> ahh
[09:44] <froud> this way kubuntu has its own docs and so does gnome
[09:44] <froud> but you still need the whole of trunk to validate
[09:48] <jsgotangco> the kde stuff needs a lot of work i noticed
[09:49] <froud> jsgotangco: its the first time we have kde, so it is to be expected. More fun for you and nay other KDE users :-)
[09:53] <jsgotangco> this is fun? lol..hehehehe
[09:57] <jsgotangco> froud: how does trunk fit in with Rosetta now running?
[09:57] <froud> it has support for the languages
[09:58] <jsgotangco> trunk just focuses on core documentation now?
[09:58] <froud> Huh? dont understand
[09:58] <jsgotangco> translated stuff from Rosetta get merged in trunk soon?
[09:59] <froud> we focus on anything that is C
[09:59] <froud> translations are already trunk
[09:59] <jsgotangco> i mean how about future stuff that will be done in Rosetta
[09:59] <froud> yes we give pot they give -nn.po
[10:00] <froud> we make -nn.xml
[10:00] <jsgotangco> -nn.po is done by Rosetta right
[10:03] <froud> yes the translators take our pot and make a po file in which they write the translation
[10:03] <froud> you already know all this
[10:04] <jsgotangco> yes im just clarifying how rosetta affects trunk
[10:04] <froud> it does not, we just make language support easier for final packaging
[10:05] <froud> the i18n process remains the same
[10:19] <froud> ooops kde inst should be kubuntuadminguide
[10:21] <froud> anyone want something to do, they can fix the fileref values in gnome and kde
[10:22] <jsgotangco> no habla espanol
[10:22] <jsgotangco> but i will check what that means
[10:25] <froud> kde/inst now renamed
[10:25] <froud> jsgotangco: where you have imagedata in the documents you have fileref attributes
[10:26] <froud> due to the change in directories the value for each fileref is now wrong and should be corrected
[10:27] <jsgotangco> <imagedata fileref="figures/update.png" format="PNG"/>
[10:27] <froud> exactly
[10:28] <jsgotangco> ok so that means revalidate these files as well
[10:28] <froud> the files are all valid, or should be
[10:28] <froud> I did a validation
[10:28] <froud> but validation will not know if images have moved
[10:29] <jsgotangco> ok does konqueror render xml like what yelp does?
[10:30] <froud> no, but you can still have yelp installed
[10:34] <jsgotangco> froud, changing the filerefs should be easy, but what should the correct values be?
[10:34] <froud> which book are you on
[10:35] <jsgotangco> they dont open in yelp at all
[10:35] <jsgotangco> im looking at kynaptic.xml
[10:35] <froud> kynaptic is a special case :-)
[10:35] <jsgotangco> ok i go to something much more basic
[10:35] <froud> figures/ are relative to the doc
[10:36] <froud> since kynaptic may move upstream one day
[10:36] <jsgotangco> ok ill just try messing up with gnome docs first to see how its done
[10:37] <froud> logically you will need ../../images/C/foo.png
[10:45] <jsgotangco> are you changing stuff agian?
[10:51] <jsgotangco> froud, do you have any idea why svn up is taking so long
[10:52] <froud> just changed one thing in kde
[10:52] <froud> no idea why it takes so long
[10:52] <froud> seems fine my side
[10:53] <jsgotangco> ok
[11:03] <Eric|UbuntuDoc> the Chinese Hoary StarterGuide had nearly achieve
[11:03] <Burgundavia> hmm?
[11:03] <froud> Eric|UbuntuDoc: achieve .... what we don't understand
[11:04] <jgotangco> he means its almost done
[11:04] <Eric|UbuntuDoc> o ,~hah 
[11:04] <Eric|UbuntuDoc> yes ,done
[11:04] <Eric|UbuntuDoc> http://wiki.ubuntu.org.cn/index.php/Hoarystarterguide/document_view
[11:05] <jsgotangco> wow thats wikimedia
[11:06] <Eric|UbuntuDoc> yes
[11:06] <froud> Eric|UbuntuDoc: that's nice but I really wish people would translate the one in svn :-)
[11:07] <jsgotangco> yeah having cn/zh in trunk would be great
[11:07] <froud> problem is it is not easy to port all these wiki formats to docbook
[11:08] <froud> and now with new release schedule all these wiki books will not be part of our i18n process
[11:08] <Eric|UbuntuDoc> We will do it
[11:08] <Eric|UbuntuDoc> but now ,we have not server for svn
[11:08] <jsgotangco> froud, i think the wiki can just stay as it is, but it should have a good flow of info that complements our docbook work
[11:08] <jsgotangco> Eric|UbuntuDoc, just use OUR svn
[11:08] <froud> Eric|UbuntuDoc: yes we have svn for this
[11:09] <froud> we ported english version to docbook
[11:09] <froud> and put it in svn see https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamProjects
[11:09] <jsgotangco> even Rosetta has some Chinese translations already
[11:10] <froud> jsgotangco: of what?
[11:10] <Eric|UbuntuDoc> oh?  cool!
[11:11] <jsgotangco> well in Hoary there are some completed already
[11:11] <jsgotangco> in Rosetta that is
[11:11] <froud> jsgotangco: you dont make much sense, translations of what?
[11:12] <Eric|UbuntuDoc> I spend tow days to translete document
[11:12] <jsgotangco> froud, of applications
[11:12] <froud> if they are translations of our docs, stuff in svn, then we need the po files back
[11:12] <froud> if it is not our doc stuff then, personally, I am not insterested
[11:13] <froud> Eric|UbuntuDoc: yes it takes a great effort for translation
[11:13] <froud> Eric|UbuntuDoc: that is why I want to reduce the effort
[11:13] <Eric|UbuntuDoc> I add-on a line as "Copyleft (C) 2005 Ubuntu.org.cn" in Chinese Document  :)
[11:13] <jsgotangco> froud, i refer to Hoary apps in https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/hoary/+translations which Eric|UbuntuDoc might be intrested in
[11:13] <froud> we use POT/PO files for translations under Rosetta
[11:14] <froud> jsgotangco: ok
[11:14] <jsgotangco> froud, do our docs get into Rosetta?
[11:14] <Burgundavia> therea are some possible issues with the size of strings we have
[11:14] <froud> jsgotangco: yes, currently via way of our package
[11:14] <jsgotangco> ok great
[11:15] <froud> Burgundavia: what issues?
[11:15] <Burgundavia> I had heard that rosetta was borking on large strings. I could be wrong
[11:15] <froud> Burgundavia: to be expected, it is still a young app
[11:16] <jsgotangco> at least its running now
[11:21] <jsgotangco> hmm rosetta's PO file export ain't bad either
[11:23] <EricNeon> jsgotangco, you can find a Chinese translater named Carlos Liu in https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/hoary/+translations 
[11:23] <EricNeon> he is just a member of Ubuntu-zh team
[11:25] <jsgotangco> yes
[11:25] <jsgotangco> i see
[11:26] <jsgotangco> hmm this is neat..i made a new wc from cli and esvn recognized the new wc when i opened it
[11:28] <jsgotangco> very handy indeed
[11:28] <EricNeon> :-)
[11:39] <jsgotangco> _froud, what is i18n.sh for
[11:40] <_froud> It manages the i18n things
[11:40] <_froud> should work, but needs testing
[11:40] <_froud> not all the scripts work as yet
[11:40] <_froud> that one should
[11:44] <jsgotangco> hmm fileref from gnome also needs work
[11:44] <froud> what are you talking about
[11:44] <froud> the images
[11:45] <jsgotangco> yes
[11:45] <froud> ya, but we said so already :-)
[11:46] <jsgotangco> ok forgive me for repeating unnecessarily
[12:09] <jsgotangco> ok ilm having dinner first
[12:09] <jsgotangco> bye bye
[12:09] <froud> c ya
[12:10] <EricNeon> bye
[12:10] <EricNeon> I have to go home
[12:10] <froud> EricNeon: OK c ya later
[12:12] <EricNeon> maybe c ya tomorrow
[12:12] <froud> cool
[04:28] <jsgotangco> tadaa
[04:36] <froud> jsgotangco: are you then doing the fileref fixes?
[04:37] <jsgotangco> i've already done some
[04:37] <jsgotangco> ill just commit them later
[04:37] <froud> ok do it on a per doc basis
[04:37] <froud> thx
[04:37] <jsgotangco> yeah im doing it per doc
[04:57] <jsgotangco> bbl
[05:43] <mvirkkil> WOW! http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/WhyYouShouldntUseUbuntu
[05:43] <mvirkkil> And a link to that on the front page
[05:43] <mvirkkil> It has been there for 10 minutes
[05:45] <mvirkkil> Someone should fix that asap and block the senders IP
[06:47] <mdke> omg that is pretty harsh
[07:14] <froud> http://mpt.net.nz/archive/2005/04/11/ubuntu
[07:21] <mdke> hi froud 
[07:21] <mdke> by a canonical employee ;)
[07:47] <jeffsch> greetings
[07:48] <jeffsch> I read the matt thomas blog. he makes some good points on the help system.
[07:48] <froud> jjesse: drop the url
[07:49] <froud> mdke: hi
[07:49] <mdke> froud, its that one you posted
[07:50] <jeffsch> froud: do you mean jeffsch?
[07:50] <froud> oh right I did not read who wrote it
[07:50] <froud> I think that the critique is good
[07:50] <froud> good to get critique
[07:51] <froud> gives you a chance to reflect and make improvements
[07:51] <mdke> yeah
[07:51] <jeffsch> yes. it's always good to hear from someone outside the docteam
[07:51] <mdke> but a lot of the faults are due to lack of time
[07:51] <mdke> especially the lack of a userguide
[07:51] <jeffsch> we are still a small team
[07:51] <mdke> hopefully we can improve by next release
[07:52] <froud> one of the great things about open source is that everything is open, even critique
[07:52] <froud> this is a great advantage
[07:52] <froud> I would have like http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/WhyYouShouldntUseUbuntu to stay up fo rthis reason
[07:52] <mdke> yeah cool that canonical let him post that
[07:53] <mdke> froud, no that violates the code of conduct imo
[07:53] <froud> well not really
[07:53] <froud> it gives breadth of perspective
[07:53] <jeffsch> i agree with froud. A short reasoned reply from shuttleworth below the screed would be nice
[07:53] <froud> a chance to see what another person thinks
[07:53] <mdke> it is not considerate of others and was unnecessarily aggressive
[07:54] <mdke> i am all for freedom of expression, its just how it was put that I found unnecessary
[07:54] <froud> but then that is open source
[07:54] <froud> anyway I am back to work

[08:04] <mdke> Man Pages. Teeheeheehee.

[08:04] <mdke> he has a point.
[08:06] <jeffsch> yes. some would think we need woman pages, just to be fair.
[08:06] <jeffsch> man pages are old stuff. they should be converted, yes?
[08:07] <mdke> well that sort of title is certainly confusing
[08:07] <froud> jeffsch: no they should not, what if you dont have a desktop? How you gonna read GNU command help
[08:08] <jeffsch> hmm... converted, but not deleted then?
[08:08] <mdke> froud, the point is that there is a "man pages" in the front page of our help dialogue, people who don't know what they are will be confused, and let's face it, those people are the only ones who don't use man pages in a terminal
[08:08] <mdke> at least that's how i interpret his point
[08:09] <froud> well there is an education to using Linux
[08:09] <froud> that's why we need user manual
[08:09] <mdke> yeah
[08:09] <mdke> froud, i wanted to ask you, is the structure of all the manuals sorted? all that is missing is the content?
[08:10] <froud> mdke: the merge ws done, so structure is set
[08:10] <froud> we may have small changes, but nothing like waht we had in branch
[08:11] <mdke> froud, i mean the structure of each document itself
[08:11] <froud> you mean outlines
[08:11] <froud> outlines are free to change
[08:12] <mdke> right
[08:12] <mdke> outlines yeah
[08:12] <mdke> froud, but the bare bones are there?
[08:12] <froud> in fact I say that everything is now open for eval
[08:12] <froud> some yes and some no
[08:12] <mdke> right
[08:12] <mdke> will we have meetings to sort out the outlines?
[08:12] <froud> the way I would tackle it is to pick a book that I intend working on
[08:13] <froud> think and think
[08:13] <froud> then propose on the list
[08:13] <froud> hack it in the list and then impliment the outline
[08:13] <mdke> cool
[08:13] <mdke> froud, also the other thing i wanted to ask is, its cool to use wiki pages for content, i'm thinking of the more stable ones
[08:13] <froud> once we have an outline agreed we should try stick to it as much possible
[08:14] <froud> wiki is one type of work svn is another
[08:14] <froud> we often take info from wiki to docbook
[08:14] <froud> I dont pay much attention to wiki
[08:14] <mdke> so its a good idea to take content
[08:14] <mdke> ?
[08:14] <froud> yeah why not, so long as you credit
[08:14] <mdke> there are some very good docs, written by good people imo
[08:15] <mdke> froud, difficult to tell who wrote the material
[08:15] <froud> sure
[08:15] <froud> also difficult to keep wiki and docbook in sync
[08:15] <froud> linke with Faq guide
[08:16] <mdke> froud, i was thinking that it would be one way, not synching: wiki -> us, improvement on our side, release
[08:16] <froud> that is what we have to do
[08:16] <froud> but we have to agree outlines and then go for it
[08:17] <froud> outline can change +-10% before final release
[08:17] <mdke> right
[08:17] <mdke> well i'm happier if they are already there ;) but I am also happy to think about them
[08:17] <froud> during work we have 1, 2, 3 draft
[08:18] <froud> mark nodes with status attribute
[08:18] <froud> authorblurb used for comments
[08:18] <mdke> yeah
[08:18] <mdke> i saw those
[08:18] <froud> different nodes can be at different status
[08:18] <mdke> i looked at esvn yesterday
[08:18] <froud> when all status = complete
[08:19] <froud> cool and what do you think
[08:19] <mdke> :|
[08:19] <mdke> not really for me
[08:19] <froud> imagine trying to do svn restructure without it
[08:19] <mdke> yeah probly
[08:19] <froud> well ther eyou go
[08:20] <froud> hey back to work
[08:20] <mdke> right ok see ya soon
[08:50] <froud> jeffsch: nice one on the images dude. thanks
[08:50] <jeffsch> np
[08:51] <froud> the docs will validated but that does not pickup the images problem caused by restructure :-)
[08:51] <jeffsch> froud: concerning the locations for the non english languages: do we keep C, or should we change to fr, ca, etc?
[08:51] <jeffsch> changing to fr, ca, etc will highlight that those screen shots are needed.
[08:52] <froud> jeffsch: we dont have the screenshots.
[08:52] <mdke> what?
[08:52] <froud> keep them as C just incase
[08:52] <mdke> you want them now?
[08:53] <froud> well we're waiting :-)
[08:53] <mdke> i'll start doing them in the next few days then
[08:53] <mdke> just everything that is already there right?
[08:53] <froud> Oh yes no more no less
[08:53] <mdke> i was thinking that we'd be waiting until breezy was up and running
[08:53] <froud> same file names
[08:53] <mdke> especially since the theme will be changing
[08:54] <froud> the theme change does not impact on the doc value
[08:54] <froud> if we have time we can do it
[08:54] <froud> but doing it now could save us time
[08:54] <jeffsch> it's good to have *something* there, just so we know what the thing looks like
[08:55] <froud> though I am not convinced we must have i18n screencapts
[08:55] <froud> but if people want then we will give
[08:55] <froud> jeffsch: until we have the images leave i18n
[08:56] <froud> oh yes, and jeffsch , claude was the other volunteer
[08:56] <froud> :-)
[08:56] <mdke> yeah ok
[08:56] <froud> mdke: if you do it keep the same file names
[08:56] <mdke> the other thing, is there no plan to make the things smaller?
[08:56] <mdke> froud, will do
[08:56] <jjesse> quick question: are we supposed to be working on what is in trunks or in the restructure section?
[08:57] <mdke> froud, they go in the same directory, with -xx ending on names, or in a different directory with same names
[08:57] <froud> jeffsch: restructure merged to trunk today
[08:57] <froud> mdke: no
[08:57] <mdke> froud, *points at jjesse*
[08:57] <froud> exactly the same file name
[08:57] <jjesse> so do my work in trunks?
[08:57] <mdke> froud, in the same final?
[08:57] <mdke> s/final/folder
[08:57] <mdke> images/
[08:57] <froud> no in the xx folder
[08:57] <jeffsch> froud: yes. I updated trunk, right? or did esvn play with my mind?
[08:57] <mdke> oh
[08:57] <froud> not the C folder
[08:57] <froud> jjesse: work in trunk
[08:57] <mdke> froud, ok didn't see those yet
[08:58] <jjesse> ok
[08:58] <mdke> froud, will do
[08:58] <froud> mdke: look at trunk and you will see the new structure
[08:58] <mdke> yep kewl
[08:58] <froud> i18n docs each have their own folder
[08:58] <jjesse> ok cool ive been using kubuntu so i'll start looking at the kde stuff
[08:58] <froud> kde stuff has next to noting
[08:59] <froud> jjesse: we can hash outlines
[08:59] <froud> in the list
[08:59] <froud> I am just capturing the installation screens
[09:00] <froud> we can use them for kde admin and user guide
[09:00] <jjesse> ok
[09:00] <froud> we may even be able to use them for gubuntu
[09:01] <mdke> /kick froud 
[09:01] <froud> well I am off to bed. Must sleep, feel nackered, my eyes are starting to bleed
[09:01] <jeffsch> cya
[09:01] <mdke> night
[09:01] <froud> jjesse: I think only the first capt of the install will need changing between kubuntu and gubuntu
[09:01] <froud> ok chow
[09:02] <jjesse> ok
[09:02] <mdke> afk too
[09:20] <mkde> yo
[09:29] <mkde> damn
[09:29] <mkde> did froud say the images were to be put in gnome_or_kde/images/2lettercountrycode/ ?
[09:33] <jjesse> must have been before i was signed on
[09:33] <jjesse> don't remember
[09:35] <froud-away> if you r working on quickguide fr doc then put them in the quickguide/fr/ folder NOT quickguide/C/ :-)
[09:36] <mdke> so I make the relevant directories myself?
[09:37] <mdke> like images/fr
[09:37] <froud-away> yes there are no fr images so you need a directory
[09:37] <mdke> ok cool
[09:38] <froud-away> in images/
[09:38] <mdke> didn't want to create any directories until i was sure ;)
[09:38] <mdke> froud-away, thanks, and gd night
[09:38] <froud-away> busy installing linux under linux so had sometime
[09:41] <claude> my menus are not very standard
[09:41] <claude> do you know the new way to edit them ?
[09:45] <froud-away> they are defined in /etc/xdg/menus/
[09:45] <froud-away> you can edit there or via the menu editor on the desktop
[09:46] <claude> menu editor ?
[09:48] <froud-away> you in gnome or kde?
[09:48] <claude> seems /etc/xdg/menus doesn't relate to my real menus
[09:48] <claude> gnome of course !!
[09:48] <claude> ;-P
[09:48] <froud-away> ah that's your problem
[09:48] <froud-away> come to kde and you have a nice easy menu editor
[09:49] <froud-away> dunno how to do it in gnome?
[09:51] <claude> something to do with /usr/share/applications
[11:34] <mkde> ooh got my svn account i think
[11:34] <mkde> haven't a clue what it means tho