| mkde | anyone around? | 12:34 |
|---|---|---|
| === jsgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| jsgotangco | mdke, ping | 01:56 |
| === Burgundavia [~corey@24.68.134.11] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| jsgotangco | Burgey!!! | 03:02 |
| Burgundavia | salut | 03:04 |
| jsgotangco | i got the commit account from james already | 03:06 |
| Burgundavia | cool | 03:07 |
| Burgundavia | I need to email my new kye | 03:07 |
| jsgotangco | Burgundavia, when you commit, do you just commit the diff file or the whole xml file? | 03:32 |
| Burgundavia | just change the file | 03:32 |
| Burgundavia | then commit | 03:32 |
| jsgotangco | commit the whole file? | 03:32 |
| Burgundavia | and it will do all the fancy stuff for you | 03:33 |
| jsgotangco | ahh | 03:33 |
| Burgundavia | change and save the file | 03:33 |
| Burgundavia | ala a normal document on your system | 03:33 |
| jsgotangco | ok i will test out my account then | 03:33 |
| jsgotangco | no i changed the actual file | 03:33 |
| Burgundavia | just make a small change, like a typo, if you want to test it out | 03:35 |
| Burgundavia | and always make small changes | 03:35 |
| jsgotangco | yeah thats what i did | 03:36 |
| jsgotangco | ok its working now | 03:38 |
| Burgundavia | saw the change in email | 03:38 |
| jsgotangco | ahhh so everything is automatic | 03:38 |
| jsgotangco | in ubuntu-doc-commits? | 03:40 |
| Burgundavia | ubuntu-doc-commits merely shows what has been changed | 03:40 |
| jsgotangco | ok how did you get the email? | 03:41 |
| Burgundavia | you need to subscribe to the list | 03:42 |
| jsgotangco | im subscribed to ubuntu-doc and ubuntu-doc-commits did i miss anything? | 03:43 |
| Burgundavia | check you email | 03:44 |
| Burgundavia | you change should be there | 03:44 |
| jsgotangco | none yet gmail is kinda slow on this but i verified it on the archives it showed diff output so i guess it worked | 03:45 |
| Burgundavia | have you got any of the changes recently? | 03:45 |
| jsgotangco | yes i did im sure the email will arrive anytime | 03:47 |
| jsgotangco | ahh treeview right | 04:06 |
| jsgotangco | jjesse, hi | 04:08 |
| === jedi0473 [~bootertro@217.149.144.146] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| jedi0473 | hi | 04:12 |
| jedi0473 | a question | 04:12 |
| Burgundavia | sure | 04:12 |
| Burgundavia | shoot | 04:12 |
| jedi0473 | i installed ubuntu | 04:12 |
| jedi0473 | in spaish | 04:13 |
| Burgundavia | good first step | 04:13 |
| jedi0473 | evrything is ok | 04:13 |
| Burgundavia | another good sign | 04:13 |
| jedi0473 | except by the office suite | 04:13 |
| Burgundavia | hmm | 04:13 |
| Burgundavia | you might want to try #ubuntu-es , seeing as you speak spanish | 04:14 |
| jedi0473 | how can i change the lang | 04:14 |
| jedi0473 | but any idea | 04:15 |
| jedi0473 | how can i do it | 04:15 |
| Burgundavia | sorry, I dont use anything but english. #ubuntu-es would probably be able to help you | 04:15 |
| jedi0473 | ok | 04:16 |
| jedi0473 | thnk u | 04:16 |
| jsgotangco | hmm | 04:19 |
| jsgotangco | office suite | 04:19 |
| jsgotangco | i think you need to download language packs | 04:20 |
| jsgotangco | oh now i know why im not getting real time commit reports im in digest mode *grin* | 04:21 |
| Burgundavia | oops | 04:22 |
| jedi0473 | lang packs | 04:25 |
| jedi0473 | is ther any repository | 04:26 |
| jedi0473 | wher to go fo them ? | 04:26 |
| Burgundavia | should be in main | 04:26 |
| jedi0473 | ok | 04:27 |
| jedi0473 | thnks | 04:28 |
| Burgundavia | jsgotangco, are you familiar with sed? | 04:28 |
| === jedi0473 [~bootertro@217.149.144.146] has left #ubuntu-doc [] | ||
| jsgotangco | nope | 04:37 |
| jsgotangco | why? | 04:38 |
| jsgotangco | i was talking with an australian consul on the phone | 04:39 |
| Burgundavia | sed s/string to search for/string to replace it with/g | 04:39 |
| Burgundavia | thus you can cat a document | 04:39 |
| Burgundavia | cat blah | sed s/blah/BLAH/g > blah | 04:40 |
| Burgundavia | simple way to replace something | 04:40 |
| jsgotangco | yeah i was testing out on committing with esvn and i just discovered how to do multiple commits | 04:40 |
| jsgotangco | thats why i had some very simple commits | 04:40 |
| jsgotangco | i mean invidividual | 04:41 |
| jsgotangco | but ill read the man of sed then | 04:41 |
| Burgundavia | also read about regular expressions | 04:42 |
| jsgotangco | can it go beyond other folders? | 04:42 |
| jsgotangco | thru pipe or something like that? | 04:43 |
| Burgundavia | that is for a single doc | 04:43 |
| Burgundavia | basically cat blah puts blah to the standard out | 04:43 |
| Burgundavia | then the pipe passes it to sed | 04:43 |
| jsgotangco | hmm i just installed 5.04 in a new box..i wish our firefox already had links to ubuntu resources | 04:46 |
| froud | African Greetings | 07:42 |
| jsgotangco | hi froud | 07:48 |
| Burgundavia | salut | 07:49 |
| froud | Burgundavia: hi, I see our new commiters are having fun :-) | 07:50 |
| froud | Burgundavia: just gotta help them along and make sure they don't commit anything bad :-) | 07:51 |
| jsgotangco | hah | 07:51 |
| froud | jsgotangco: hello dude | 07:51 |
| froud | so you got it working | 07:51 |
| jsgotangco | well i did make some blunder on committing individually | 07:53 |
| jsgotangco | but i went back to the esvn manual and i can commit via the tree which makes it easier | 07:53 |
| froud | If you select via tree it just does commit of all M or A files in the selected dir | 07:54 |
| froud | Always svn up before commit and check for conflicts | 07:55 |
| froud | if conflict then resolve | 07:55 |
| froud | else commit | 07:55 |
| froud | fi | 07:55 |
| jsgotangco | yeah i did that | 07:55 |
| froud | good boy | 07:55 |
| froud | about your question on Kde docs | 07:56 |
| froud | Perhaps you want to pick a document and start outlining it | 07:56 |
| froud | then post the outline to the list | 07:57 |
| jsgotangco | good idea i was talking to someone in #kubuntu who asked for a user manual and i told him there's nothing at the moment except Sean's name | 07:57 |
| froud | alternately, build the out in the xml file and then anounce it on list. that way we can all hack at it and finally we will come to a finished out line | 07:58 |
| jsgotangco | i can probably refer to the existing userguides and stuff and just move it into kde format | 07:58 |
| froud | yes you can use them as Ideas | 08:00 |
| Burgundavia | froud, indeed | 08:01 |
| froud | chaps how should we do this? | 08:02 |
| froud | install is common to gubunru and kubuntu | 08:02 |
| froud | think we should have an installation guide | 08:02 |
| jsgotangco | you really insist on gubuntu | 08:02 |
| Burgundavia | gubunru <-- is that the new top secret African distro | 08:02 |
| froud | in generic | 08:02 |
| froud | bubuntu | 08:02 |
| froud | gubuntu | 08:03 |
| Burgundavia | BOBuntu <-- linux for fat american slobs | 08:03 |
| Burgundavia | installation guide is good | 08:03 |
| froud | Burgundavia: think it should be genric though | 08:03 |
| Burgundavia | once I figure out how, I can use qemu to get the screenshots | 08:03 |
| Burgundavia | froud, yep | 08:04 |
| froud | oh qemu is easy | 08:04 |
| froud | I just created a 2GB img | 08:04 |
| froud | and installed there | 08:04 |
| jsgotangco | hmmm | 08:04 |
| jsgotangco | maybe i should reformat this machine to get some new space | 08:04 |
| Burgundavia | ok, haven't dug into it yet | 08:05 |
| froud | now I have working gubuntu and working kubuntu running under SuSE | 08:05 |
| Burgundavia | jsgotangco, just buy another hdd | 08:05 |
| jsgotangco | on a laptop??? | 08:05 |
| Burgundavia | jsgotangco, hmm | 08:05 |
| froud | jsgotangco: yes extenal drives | 08:05 |
| jsgotangco | no worries im saving for a shuttle pc | 08:05 |
| Burgundavia | 2.5" are not that much more | 08:05 |
| jsgotangco | i might get it next month | 08:05 |
| froud | Burgundavia: the debian installation guide is nice. but I fear to hectic for our user audience | 08:06 |
| jsgotangco | Burgundavia, i don't have a job...i use my savings at the moment...so money is quite tight | 08:06 |
| Burgundavia | froud, ideally, the installation guide should simply say exactly what to do for most people | 08:07 |
| froud | Geez why are so may skilled people without jobs, it really pisses me off | 08:07 |
| jsgotangco | haven't you seen the Linspire quick guide | 08:07 |
| froud | jsgotangco: drop the url | 08:07 |
| Burgundavia | froud, mine is mostly by choice | 08:08 |
| froud | Burgundavia: you are a special case :-) | 08:08 |
| jsgotangco | i think Burgundavia mentioned about it before..i dont have it | 08:08 |
| froud | Burgundavia: drop the linspire installation manual | 08:08 |
| jsgotangco | well its different to be unemployed in a 3rd world country... | 08:08 |
| froud | how that | 08:08 |
| jsgotangco | interest rates are higher, inflation is higher, etc. | 08:09 |
| jsgotangco | would you believe credit cards here charge 3.5% a month | 08:09 |
| froud | our inflation is 3.5 percent | 08:09 |
| jsgotangco | thats why im thinking of emigrating somewhere | 08:10 |
| froud | come to South Africa dude | 08:10 |
| froud | it rocks | 08:10 |
| Burgundavia | http://www.linspire.com/quickstart | 08:10 |
| Burgundavia | froud, follow that | 08:10 |
| Burgundavia | froud, yes, I am very special | 08:11 |
| froud | 08:13 | |
| jsgotangco | yaagghh | 08:13 |
| froud | anyone seen minimum spec req for gubuntu and kubuntu | 08:14 |
| froud | recomended would also be nice | 08:14 |
| jsgotangco | when you mean gubuntu, its ubuntu with gnome | 08:14 |
| froud | jsgotangco: yes | 08:14 |
| jsgotangco | and when we say ubuntu its just base right | 08:14 |
| froud | server :-) | 08:14 |
| froud | help us differentiate the distros | 08:14 |
| froud | otherwise we will be confused all the time | 08:15 |
| froud | mdke: don't like it :-) | 08:15 |
| jsgotangco | well if its just for internal use why not | 08:16 |
| froud | yeah, but I bet it catches on and soon everyone is doing it | 08:16 |
| jsgotangco | well yeah let's blame riddell | 08:17 |
| jsgotangco | ok ubuntu we do a desktop neutral guide | 08:17 |
| jsgotangco | gubuntu we improve existing | 08:17 |
| jsgotangco | and kubuntu we're doing a new one | 08:17 |
| froud | yep | 08:17 |
| froud | hey school run must go | 08:20 |
| jsgotangco | okay | 08:20 |
| jsgotangco | later then | 08:20 |
| froud | that was the school run | 08:34 |
| froud | Burgundavia: you working on FAQ Guide Right | 08:37 |
| froud | Burgundavia: we need to profile that doc | 08:37 |
| Burgundavia | by profile, you mean? | 08:39 |
| froud | anything specific to gnome should have the os attribute set to os="gnome" | 08:39 |
| Burgundavia | ah | 08:39 |
| Burgundavia | fun | 08:39 |
| Burgundavia | how does one do that? | 08:39 |
| froud | http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/Profiling.html | 08:39 |
| froud | we need to decide on what attributes we will be using and what the profiles are | 08:40 |
| froud | we can get as many documents as we define profiles from one xml document | 08:40 |
| Burgundavia | I think we can keep it simple | 08:40 |
| froud | I think for now it is just gnome and kde profiles | 08:41 |
| Burgundavia | do we have anything that is arch specific? | 08:41 |
| froud | yes that is another consideration | 08:42 |
| Burgundavia | our archs are: x86, amd64, ia64, ppc, ppc64 | 08:42 |
| froud | I know we will need arch on Installation guide | 08:42 |
| Burgundavia | are they doing sparc for this release? | 08:42 |
| froud | dunno | 08:42 |
| jsgotangco | well it shouldnt be that complicated i guess its just a matter of tagging them, besides they all use the same method | 08:42 |
| jsgotangco | or do they? | 08:43 |
| froud | yes if something is applicable to all then no tag | 08:43 |
| Burgundavia | well, archs should only be for the installer | 08:43 |
| froud | yes | 08:44 |
| jsgotangco | sparc looks cloudy | 08:44 |
| Burgundavia | does anyboyd have a ppc or ppc64 that we can test the installer to see what is does? | 08:44 |
| Burgundavia | what about amd54? | 08:44 |
| Burgundavia | s/54/64 | 08:44 |
| froud | Burgundavia: we can emulate that under qemu | 08:45 |
| Burgundavia | ah | 08:45 |
| froud | I have | 08:45 |
| froud | qemu-arm qemu-i386 qemu-ppc qemu-system-ppc | 08:45 |
| froud | qemu-fast qemu-img qemu-sparc | 08:45 |
| Burgundavia | hmm | 08:45 |
| Burgundavia | I thought qemu was x86 specific for some reason | 08:46 |
| froud | No I thought you could emulate a hardware platform | 08:46 |
| froud | if you dont specify a platform it defualts to i386 | 08:47 |
| Burgundavia | hmm, I thought I specifically read that qemu is x86 | 08:47 |
| Burgundavia | wrong everyday of the life, as per usual | 08:47 |
| === Burgundavia grumbles about commit access | ||
| froud | well we need to decide on the profiles for various docs in generic and document it | 08:48 |
| froud | Burgundavia: get your new sent | 08:48 |
| === Burgundavia is grumbling generally. Still pissed off at himself | ||
| froud | Catholicism leads to guilt | 08:49 |
| === Burgundavia is an atheist | ||
| froud | I prefer to be agnostic | 08:49 |
| Burgundavia | but I also believe in the invisible pink unicorn | 08:50 |
| jsgotangco | well i grew up as catholic but that does not affect how i work nor contribute here | 08:50 |
| jsgotangco | my aunt is a nun and my cousin is a priest | 08:50 |
| jsgotangco | hehe | 08:50 |
| jsgotangco | have you noticed how catholicism thrives in poor countries | 08:50 |
| Burgundavia | <troll>'cause then I can get the theists coming and going</troll> | 08:50 |
| froud | Burgundavia: can you give some thought to the profiling and place a document in wiki on it and how you propose to profile? | 08:51 |
| Burgundavia | ugh, that means I have to edit the wiki | 08:52 |
| Burgundavia | ok, can do | 08:52 |
| froud | cool, so at least we can know what to do when we upgrade the doc to hoary | 08:52 |
| froud | I suggest we upgrade faq guide to hoary first I think this will close the gap to the next release | 08:57 |
| jsgotangco | hmm | 08:58 |
| jsgotangco | learnlinux..that is nice ive seen the site before | 08:59 |
| froud | yes I have it at http://learnlinux.tsf.org.za | 08:59 |
| froud | we are going to improve on it and make it Ubuntu | 08:59 |
| jsgotangco | are we including this on breezy? | 09:00 |
| froud | If we get it done | 09:00 |
| jsgotangco | id like that | 09:00 |
| Burgundavia | froud, I am actually thinking we skip right past hoary for the faqguide | 09:00 |
| jsgotangco | stuff like these should be installled by default | 09:00 |
| Burgundavia | froud, mine is going to be more graphically | 09:00 |
| Burgundavia | froud, the ubuntu wayTM | 09:00 |
| froud | It is a good task for authors who want to learn linux | 09:01 |
| froud | Burgundavia: if you feel that is the way to go | 09:01 |
| jsgotangco | what needs to be done in generic? | 09:01 |
| froud | what do you mean | 09:01 |
| Burgundavia | froud, well, the faqguide is already being done for hoary, by chen | 09:02 |
| Burgundavia | froud, so why do a bunch of work that is already done and that I question the value of in the first place | 09:02 |
| jsgotangco | is there a place where we have a ToDo list or who's doing stuff in our ever lovable wiki | 09:02 |
| froud | Burgundavia: yes somewhere | 09:02 |
| Burgundavia | https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/Profiling | 09:03 |
| froud | Burgundavia: I dont think that there will be much diff between a faq fo rhoary and a faq for brezzy | 09:03 |
| Burgundavia | mostly the screenshots | 09:04 |
| froud | You think faq should have screenshots | 09:04 |
| froud | is it not better to link to documents | 09:04 |
| jsgotangco | i think not if it has, its a guide | 09:04 |
| Burgundavia | I am thinking screenshots of exactly what to do | 09:04 |
| Burgundavia | ala | 09:05 |
| Burgundavia | click here | 09:05 |
| Burgundavia | that brings up this | 09:05 |
| Burgundavia | click here | 09:05 |
| Burgundavia | type this in | 09:05 |
| froud | can I rename Profiling to DocteamProfiling | 09:05 |
| Burgundavia | sure | 09:05 |
| Burgundavia | I have no emotional attachment to the name | 09:05 |
| froud | we decided on that convention to keep our stuff out of the rest | 09:06 |
| Burgundavia | ok | 09:06 |
| froud | once you have an idea on which attributes we will use for what and what the profiles are, put it up there | 09:07 |
| froud | https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamProfiling | 09:07 |
| froud | Burgundavia: it may make the faq guide very long | 09:08 |
| froud | Burgundavia: perhaps write a section in a doc and then using XPointer | 09:08 |
| froud | include it to the Faq | 09:08 |
| froud | that way it will be easier to manage the faq | 09:08 |
| jsgotangco | userlevel is a nice attribute | 09:08 |
| froud | as we update nodes in the documents we get updates in the faq | 09:09 |
| froud | since I have made most docs a single xml instance it should be easier for us to manage XPointers | 09:10 |
| froud | jsgotangco: yes, but profiling to user levels is compounded problem | 09:10 |
| froud | the doc itself is already at a user level | 09:11 |
| jsgotangco | good point | 09:11 |
| froud | makeing user level inside user level is ARPITA | 09:11 |
| froud | Burgundavia: what do you think? | 09:12 |
| Burgundavia | I am uncertain how xpointers work | 09:12 |
| Burgundavia | froud, take a look at the wiki page now | 09:13 |
| froud | http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/ModularDoc.html | 09:13 |
| Burgundavia | ahh | 09:14 |
| Burgundavia | I see | 09:14 |
| Burgundavia | so I can create something like: To install Example App | 09:14 |
| Burgundavia | xinclude:Starting synatpic | 09:14 |
| Burgundavia | then say search for Example app | 09:14 |
| Burgundavia | xinclude:Installingfurthercrapprocess | 09:14 |
| Burgundavia | correct? | 09:14 |
| froud | yes XInclude the nodes you want in the faq guide so long as your xinludes and xpointers result in a valid xml doc it works | 09:15 |
| froud | all you need is an uniq id on the node | 09:15 |
| Burgundavia | basically achieving the same thing the faqguide does with the (adding extra repos), etc, at the beginning of his instructions | 09:16 |
| Burgundavia | is all that stuff done on the fly? | 09:16 |
| froud | what stuff | 09:16 |
| Burgundavia | the xinclude, would that be pulled in by yelp as the doc is generated? | 09:16 |
| froud | faq guide is not going into yelp | 09:17 |
| froud | but yes the XIncludes are expanded at proc | 09:17 |
| froud | I am building an Ubuntu Toolbar for Mozilla | 09:18 |
| froud | most of the docs will be plain html | 09:18 |
| froud | with css | 09:18 |
| froud | accessed via the Ubuntu Toolbar | 09:18 |
| froud | Only GNOME Docs are set for Yelp | 09:18 |
| froud | generic and kde are not | 09:19 |
| froud | KHelpcenter reads plain any HTML | 09:19 |
| === froud is editing https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamProfiling | ||
| jsgotangco | hmm so it would be much easier to do docs on kubuntu | 09:28 |
| Burgundavia | bah | 09:28 |
| Burgundavia | already outnumbered | 09:28 |
| jsgotangco | Inter may be expelled from Champions League | 09:37 |
| jsgotangco | HAR HAR HAR | 09:37 |
| Burgundavia | Inter Milan? | 09:37 |
| jsgotangco | yeah | 09:38 |
| jsgotangco | there was a match | 09:38 |
| jsgotangco | it went ugly | 09:38 |
| jsgotangco | the people watching threw flares in the field | 09:38 |
| froud | ok https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamProfiling update. I am now off to meetings. c ya all later | 09:40 |
| jsgotangco | i gotta go to and do the groceries | 09:43 |
| jsgotangco | later | 09:43 |
| mdke | morning all | 10:02 |
| Burgundavia | salut | 10:18 |
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| === froud-away [~froud@ndn-165-155-230.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| === \x [~sjc@ppp102-12.lns1.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| === mpt [mpt@210-54-126-93.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| Burgundavia | salut | 03:21 |
| mpt | bonsoir | 03:22 |
| Burgundavia | bon matin | 03:22 |
| Kinnison | salut burgerboi | 03:22 |
| Burgundavia | Kinnison, hey kinnison | 03:22 |
| Burgundavia | hmm | 03:22 |
| Burgundavia | tired | 03:22 |
| Kinnison | sleeeeeeeeep | 03:23 |
| Burgundavia | Kinnison, mpt Burgundavia: Smile sweetly at a programmer or three, and ask them to implement a way to highlight actual controls in a program's window when a button is pressed in that window's help file. | 03:23 |
| Burgundavia | Burgundavia mpt, that is a lot of programmers to smile sweetly at. My ass might get a little sore | 03:23 |
| === Kinnison gets very confused | ||
| Burgundavia | thinking of you my dear | 03:23 |
| mpt | ehh | 03:24 |
| === Kinnison is still confused | ||
| Burgundavia | nev mind | 03:24 |
| Burgundavia | gtk 1.x apps need to die | 03:24 |
| Kinnison | aye | 03:25 |
| Burgundavia | mpt, take a look at aria | 03:25 |
| Burgundavia | what a mess | 03:25 |
| mpt | aria is a gtk 1.x app? | 03:25 |
| Burgundavia | yep | 03:25 |
| Burgundavia | non-higgy | 03:25 |
| Burgundavia | very stable though | 03:25 |
| Burgundavia | unfortuately, the fireget xpi is borked | 03:26 |
| mpt | what does it do? | 03:26 |
| Burgundavia | download manager | 03:26 |
| Burgundavia | http://aria.rednoah.com/ | 03:27 |
| Burgundavia | arrr | 03:28 |
| Burgundavia | gnome will not mount a cd as an audio cd and a data cd at the same time | 03:28 |
| mpt | Burgundavia: Would I be shot at if I admitted that the highlighting actual controls idea isn't mine, but is from a now-defunct OS? | 03:29 |
| Burgundavia | beos or amiga? | 03:30 |
| mpt | neither | 03:30 |
| Burgundavia | what? | 03:30 |
| mpt | Mac OS 7.5-8 (but not 9 or X) | 03:30 |
| Burgundavia | I though those were the holy grails of usablity (sorry) | 03:30 |
| mpt | http://www.quinn.echidna.id.au/Quinn/WWW/HISubtleties/AppleGuideCoachMarks.html | 03:30 |
| Burgundavia | hmm | 03:30 |
| Burgundavia | nice | 03:31 |
| Burgundavia | that could be done without modifying the app | 03:31 |
| mpt | You need to be able to open the app's menus programmatically | 03:31 |
| Burgundavia | true | 03:32 |
| mpt | actually, what am I talking about | 03:32 |
| mpt | no you don't | 03:32 |
| Burgundavia | what you need is a frame work | 03:32 |
| mpt | the way it worked was that it would highlight the menu, and say, e.g. "first, open the File menu" | 03:32 |
| Burgundavia | not much of a programmer, though | 03:32 |
| mpt | then when you opened it, it would say "next, choose 'Save As...'" | 03:32 |
| mpt | etc | 03:32 |
| mpt | So yeah, you need to be able to detect when things have happened in the app | 03:33 |
| mpt | as well as just highlighting controls | 03:33 |
| Burgundavia | mark should throw some money at it | 03:34 |
| Burgundavia | develop a spec under the auspices of fd.o | 03:34 |
| mpt | If I showed it to him he'd say "That's such CRACK!" | 03:34 |
| Burgundavia | mark is different | 03:34 |
| mpt | ok, I don't know that for sure | 03:35 |
| Burgundavia | we need some good first 20 minutes help stuff | 03:35 |
| Burgundavia | that is where most help falls down | 03:35 |
| mpt | yes | 03:35 |
| Burgundavia | and most distros specifically | 03:35 |
| mpt | as in, first 20 minutes in Ubuntu? | 03:35 |
| Burgundavia | yep | 03:35 |
| Burgundavia | setting up multimedia | 03:35 |
| Burgundavia | menus | 03:35 |
| Burgundavia | updating system | 03:35 |
| mpt | why doesn't updating start itself automatically? | 03:36 |
| Burgundavia | mostly I find my usablity bugs within 1 minutes of opening and using an app | 03:36 |
| Burgundavia | mpt, it does on install | 03:36 |
| Burgundavia | and it does the apt-get update part | 03:37 |
| Burgundavia | it just won't install by default | 03:37 |
| mpt | ew | 03:37 |
| Burgundavia | at least now it throws a red thing up there | 03:37 |
| mpt | oh, right | 03:37 |
| Burgundavia | warty didn't have anything | 03:37 |
| mpt | stick a help balloon on it, or something | 03:37 |
| Burgundavia | ugh | 03:37 |
| mpt | heh | 03:37 |
| Burgundavia | help ballons are possibly one of the most annoying things a system can do | 03:38 |
| Burgundavia | and they don't help | 03:38 |
| Burgundavia | they just annoy users | 03:38 |
| mpt | Well, consider that previous versions of Windows used alerts for the same purpose | 03:38 |
| mpt | that was worse | 03:38 |
| mpt | ok, aria is kinda scary | 03:39 |
| Burgundavia | when you run windows in a corp environment, the 1st thing it says, with a balloon, is "there are unused icons on our desktop" | 03:39 |
| Burgundavia | mpt, fireget and gwget is coming along quite nicely from what I understand | 03:39 |
| Burgundavia | but fireget xpi download link it borked | 03:39 |
| mpt | Burgundavia: Hey now, that's not fair, that's a good idea misused | 03:40 |
| Burgundavia | hmm | 03:40 |
| mpt | If there are unused icons on my desktop I'll clean them up in my own good time :-) | 03:40 |
| Burgundavia | the balloon is much overused in windows | 03:40 |
| mpt | yes | 03:40 |
| Burgundavia | and I agree with don't install automatically | 03:40 |
| Burgundavia | breaks the principle of not changing something without the users input | 03:41 |
| mpt | oh, true | 03:41 |
| mpt | I didn't understand what you meant | 03:41 |
| mpt | jdub (I think) pointed the other day to someone's notification system that ... | 03:41 |
| mpt | no, it was wmf | 03:41 |
| mpt | one moment | 03:41 |
| mpt | ah, no, it was a Weblog entry in one of the Weblogs that linked to mine | 03:42 |
| mpt | I'll never find it again now | 03:42 |
| Burgundavia | a balloon one? | 03:42 |
| mpt | anyway, they'd made this notification system just for apps to make balloon-like things with | 03:42 |
| mpt | and they were stacked vertically down the side of the screen | 03:42 |
| mpt | balloon city | 03:42 |
| Burgundavia | that was for jabber I think | 03:43 |
| Burgundavia | http://www.kismith.co.uk/wordpress/index.php/2005/04/12/new-in-the-psi-world/ | 03:43 |
| Burgundavia | this one? | 03:43 |
| mpt | that looks like it | 03:45 |
| Burgundavia | what would you use it for? | 03:45 |
| mpt | but I seem to remember it wasn't being used for IM | 03:46 |
| mpt | In the screenshot I saw, it was for "download complete"-kinda things | 03:46 |
| Burgundavia | hmm | 03:46 |
| Burgundavia | never saw that | 03:46 |
| Burgundavia | played with beagle at all? | 03:48 |
| mpt | no | 03:48 |
| Burgundavia | is very nice | 03:48 |
| Burgundavia | if very alpha | 03:48 |
| === jsgotangco [DaWorm@info4-122.info.com.ph] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| mpt | Looks like a competitor to http://www.google.com/ | 03:50 |
| mpt | Not a competitor to Google, but to http://www.google.com/ | 03:50 |
| Burgundavia | beagle is spotlight | 03:51 |
| jsgotangco | bah | 03:51 |
| jsgotangco | :) | 03:51 |
| jsgotangco | whoa they sent room assignments already | 03:52 |
| Burgundavia | lucky bugger | 03:52 |
| Burgundavia | going to UDU | 03:52 |
| jsgotangco | im with Andrew Mitchell | 03:52 |
| jsgotangco | hehe | 03:52 |
| mpt | See, one day Google will have a Web-based calendar, and at http://www.google.com/ you'll type "meeting with Burgundavia at 3pm", and it'll add an appointment to your calendar instead of doing a Web search | 03:52 |
| Burgundavia | mpt, check out the hula project | 03:52 |
| Burgundavia | looks very cool | 03:52 |
| mpt | I did, a few weeks ago | 03:53 |
| mpt | to see if it could be used for Launchpad | 03:53 |
| Burgundavia | there is hula in the hoary repos | 03:53 |
| Burgundavia | good thing I went to Mataro. tickets to aussie start at 2,800 CAD | 03:54 |
| jsgotangco | jeezzz | 03:55 |
| mpt | arg, I still need to get accommodation | 03:55 |
| Burgundavia | is canonical not putting you up mpt? | 03:56 |
| mpt | oh, yeah, they are for UDU, but I'm going a couple of days early | 03:56 |
| Burgundavia | ah | 03:57 |
| Burgundavia | cool | 03:57 |
| Burgundavia | 3974 for canberra | 03:57 |
| mpt | like when I went to Montreal, the time they were putting me up I was in the Ritz Carlton, and I stayed an extra couple of days in ... a youth hostel | 03:57 |
| Burgundavia | mpt, were you at Mataro? | 03:58 |
| mpt | No, when Mataro was held, I didn't know Ubuntu existed | 03:58 |
| Burgundavia | how did you get hired? are you a dd? | 03:58 |
| mpt | No, I meant to install Debian but never got around to it | 03:59 |
| Burgundavia | I assume then you have experience with OSS development>? | 03:59 |
| jsgotangco | what does it take to get hired by canonical anyway | 03:59 |
| mpt | Yeah, I contributed in various ways to Mozilla for a few years | 04:00 |
| === jsgotangco grumbles at his oracle experience and now has no job | ||
| === Burgundavia is also unemployed | ||
| Burgundavia | though by choice | 04:00 |
| jsgotangco | well | 04:00 |
| Burgundavia | I left a windows helpdesk monkey job | 04:00 |
| jsgotangco | thats one thing | 04:00 |
| jsgotangco | i was handling 3 oracle servers till the company went kaput | 04:01 |
| mpt | jsgotangco: Know the right people | 04:01 |
| Burgundavia | sell yourself well | 04:01 |
| Burgundavia | I didn't do so well I when I first talked to mark | 04:02 |
| jsgotangco | at least being jobless at the moment gave me a lot of opportunities with OSS | 04:02 |
| jsgotangco | im just thinking its a good training for now | 04:02 |
| jsgotangco | Burgundavia will the profiling be de and arch specific? | 04:03 |
| Burgundavia | jsgotangco, that is the point | 04:03 |
| Burgundavia | profile all our docs to be that | 04:03 |
| jsgotangco | we should really have a meeting before UDU | 04:05 |
| Burgundavia | we are | 04:05 |
| Burgundavia | mpt, read the list | 04:05 |
| Burgundavia | mpt, the doc one | 04:06 |
| jsgotangco | when i read mpt's piece i didnt know he was canonical | 04:08 |
| jsgotangco | until someone pointed out | 04:08 |
| Burgundavia | I had never seen him around, so I was surprised as well | 04:09 |
| mpt | Burgundavia: I will, as soon as my e-mail is working again | 04:09 |
| jsgotangco | i might look at my xp box and how they did their techincal documentation | 04:10 |
| jsgotangco | maybe i can learn something from that | 04:10 |
| jsgotangco | a lot of the kubuntu users are asking for one as well | 04:10 |
| mpt | jsgotangco: technical documentation? | 04:11 |
| mpt | jsgotangco: You mean user help, or something else? | 04:11 |
| jsgotangco | i mean user help yes | 04:11 |
| Burgundavia | xps help is crap | 04:12 |
| Burgundavia | most docs in the computer world are crap | 04:12 |
| Burgundavia | that is why oreilly makes a fortune selling good books | 04:12 |
| jsgotangco | Burgundavia at least they are more accessible IMO | 04:12 |
| Burgundavia | XP has search | 04:13 |
| mpt | Yes, XP's help is crap | 04:14 |
| jsgotangco | right, but like you said before, "logical flow of information from doc to wiki" | 04:14 |
| mpt | The content is good, but the layout is terrible | 04:14 |
| Burgundavia | I belive sean said that | 04:14 |
| mpt | It practically takes over the entire screen | 04:14 |
| Burgundavia | xp likes to eat screen realestate | 04:15 |
| Burgundavia | ballons, dogs, etc. | 04:15 |
| mpt | task panes | 04:15 |
| mpt | sidebars | 04:15 |
| Burgundavia | sidebars that you cant edit by right click or drag and drop | 04:15 |
| jsgotangco | ok ok i get your point but still if it can help, it will help | 04:15 |
| Burgundavia | the issue is not really of writing good docs | 04:15 |
| Burgundavia | it is of delivering them in a good way | 04:15 |
| jsgotangco | i think we are talented enough to write good books | 04:16 |
| mpt | Books, undoubtedly | 04:16 |
| mpt | Help? possibly :-) | 04:16 |
| jsgotangco | *grin* | 04:16 |
| Burgundavia | what we really need to think about is, how many less words can this be said in | 04:17 |
| mpt | Yes, fewer words and fewer syllables with the same meaning | 04:17 |
| jsgotangco | is that why you want to make your stuff visually | 04:17 |
| mpt | my stuff visually? | 04:18 |
| jsgotangco | no, Burgundavia | 04:18 |
| mpt | oh | 04:18 |
| jsgotangco | he was talking about an FAQ that had a lot of images and stuff | 04:18 |
| jsgotangco | if you want to do this, click this, bla bla | 04:19 |
| jsgotangco | http://www.wordpress.tokyotimes.org/index.php?p=510 | 04:22 |
| jsgotangco | jeezz | 04:23 |
| jsgotangco | ackkk acrobat 7 for linux is 37.6MB what the... | 04:26 |
| Burgundavia | acrobat 7 also contains spyware | 04:26 |
| Burgundavia | kpdf/evince is better | 04:27 |
| jsgotangco | kpdf is good | 04:27 |
| jsgotangco | i havent tried evince | 04:27 |
| Burgundavia | they both now use the poppler backend | 04:27 |
| jsgotangco | isnt poppler based on xpdf | 04:28 |
| jsgotangco | oh well gotta sleep too | 04:30 |
| jsgotangco | night! | 04:30 |
| Burgundavia | ok | 04:30 |
| === sivang [~sivang@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| === mdke catches up on the emails | ||
| mdke | hi all | 05:53 |
| Burgundavia | salut | 05:59 |
| mdke | hi Burgundavia | 06:03 |
| mdke | nice email | 06:03 |
| Burgundavia | which one? | 06:03 |
| Burgundavia | devel or doc? | 06:03 |
| mdke | doc | 06:03 |
| Burgundavia | 1. he works for canonical? that one? | 06:03 |
| mdke | yeah | 06:03 |
| mdke | i also agree | 06:03 |
| mdke | there is no need to take that blog as a personal critique of our efforts, its useful | 06:04 |
| mdke | although I only read the Help section | 06:04 |
| Burgundavia | He sets very high standards on usablity | 06:04 |
| Burgundavia | so do I | 06:04 |
| Burgundavia | read the scrollback here and ubuntu-devel | 06:04 |
| mdke | high standards are essential | 06:04 |
| mdke | if we can't hit em, due to time/people limitations, then so be it, but we should set em | 06:05 |
| mdke | hmm | 06:09 |
| mdke | how far back am i going in #ubuntu-devel? | 06:09 |
| mdke | Burgundavia ross, Ubuntu doc team already maintains a complete set for main | 06:10 |
| mdke | Treenaks Burgundavia: in all languages? | 06:10 |
| mdke | the languages are todo | 06:10 |
| mdke | but then that applies to the docs as well ;) | 06:10 |
| Burgundavia | everything is always todo | 06:11 |
| Burgundavia | I should write a script to do it | 06:11 |
| mdke | to take screenshots, or to translate docs? | 06:12 |
| mdke | i'd like to see you write a script for either ;p | 06:12 |
| Burgundavia | take screenshots | 06:12 |
| Burgundavia | I need to play with imagemagick | 06:12 |
| mdke | we need to discuss the question of size tho | 06:12 |
| Burgundavia | I think we need to shrink the size in the quickguide | 06:12 |
| mdke | Burgundavia, are we extending the topic of the meeting to more general things? if so, we can add that to the agenda | 06:13 |
| mdke | i've started gradually to take some screenshots in different languages, but it would help if things are a bit more certain about size, and maybe compression too | 06:13 |
| Burgundavia | see the list | 06:15 |
| mdke | gottit | 06:15 |
| mdke | Burgundavia, btw | 06:17 |
| Burgundavia | yes> | 06:17 |
| mdke | check out the gnome/images/C/aboutubuntu.png | 06:17 |
| Burgundavia | ok | 06:17 |
| mdke | do you think for the l18n ones I should do a shot of yelp-aboutubuntu? | 06:17 |
| mdke | rather than firefox | 06:17 |
| mdke | since its in the menu | 06:17 |
| Burgundavia | hmm | 06:19 |
| Burgundavia | I don't completely understand | 06:19 |
| mdke | oh | 06:20 |
| mdke | well that pic is of firefox with the aboutubuntu text in | 06:20 |
| mdke | rather than yelp | 06:20 |
| Burgundavia | we should probably use ff | 06:21 |
| Burgundavia | as we going to be switching, hopefully, to seans xul toolbar | 06:21 |
| mdke | right | 06:21 |
| mdke | i'll wait on it | 06:21 |
| mdke | changing comps | 06:22 |
| === mkde [~matt@mdke.user] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| Burgundavia | hmm | 06:31 |
| Burgundavia | did you catch the tone from seans last emails? | 06:32 |
| Burgundavia | or am I reading him wrong? | 06:32 |
| mkde | yes | 06:32 |
| mkde | (i caught it) | 06:32 |
| jjesse | afternoon everyone (or whatever time of day it is where youa re at) | 06:46 |
| mkde | hi jjesse | 06:46 |
| Burgundavia | salut | 06:47 |
| Burgundavia | jjesse, mpt is not as bad as that | 06:47 |
| mkde | +1 | 06:48 |
| mkde | :p | 06:48 |
| === jeffsch is back (gone 21:45:54) | ||
| jjesse | thats just how the tone came across i know it is hard to tell tone of voice in an email | 06:55 |
| Burgundavia | mpt is actually quite sane | 06:57 |
| Burgundavia | he sets very high standards | 06:57 |
| Burgundavia | which is good | 06:57 |
| jjesse | i figured, but that is how the reveiw came across to me | 06:58 |
| jjesse | i enjoy ubuntu more then any distro i've ever tried and i've tried them all | 06:58 |
| Burgundavia | did you read his 48 hours enduring mac os x | 06:59 |
| jjesse | slackware, debian, suse, fedora core 1 and core 2 and several others | 06:59 |
| jjesse | no i didn't | 06:59 |
| Burgundavia | if you read the bug report about mozilla, you see that his idea got lost in infighting amongst the mozilla devs | 06:59 |
| Burgundavia | http://www.goteborgcityairport.se/ | 06:59 |
| Burgundavia | can anybody else get through to that? | 06:59 |
| jjesse | doesn't load all the way | 07:00 |
| Burgundavia | hmm | 07:00 |
| Burgundavia | I get nothing | 07:00 |
| jeffsch | i get nothing too | 07:01 |
| Burgundavia | anyway | 07:02 |
| Burgundavia | what really needs to be discussed at the meeting? | 07:04 |
| mkde | the mdz list of stuff we need to have frozen with decent notive | 07:08 |
| mkde | s/notive/notice | 07:08 |
| mkde | also we can discuss general ideas about structure of docs? | 07:09 |
| mkde | as raised by the blog | 07:10 |
| mkde | but dunno if people wanna turn it into a full blown meeting | 07:10 |
| jjesse | what was the link again to the meeting time ? | 07:12 |
| mkde | DocteamNextIRCMeeting | 07:12 |
| jjesse | thanks | 07:13 |
| === Cturtle [~Cturtle__@a213-84-50-38.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| froud | hi, i see we have lots of different views | 07:28 |
| mkde | hi froud | 07:28 |
| froud | hi mdke | 07:29 |
| mkde | you ok? | 07:29 |
| froud | pushing deadlines al day, if my messages seem short and curt then it is cause of pressure | 07:29 |
| mkde | hope you got everything done | 07:29 |
| froud | yep dont you just love customers that want it yesterday and tell you today | 07:30 |
| Burgundavia | froud, ok, it just didn't seem like your usual style | 07:30 |
| mkde | i don't have any customers :) | 07:30 |
| Burgundavia | bah | 07:30 |
| Burgundavia | wiki is not letting me login | 07:30 |
| mkde | works here | 07:31 |
| mkde | check your email address/pass | 07:31 |
| mkde | once happened to me when i changed my email in launchpad and didn't realise it affects the whole site | 07:32 |
| Burgundavia | it logs me in | 07:33 |
| froud | quick sit rap are all image file refs now updated? | 07:33 |
| mkde | cool | 07:33 |
| mkde | not sure froud | 07:33 |
| froud | I saw we now have language captures | 07:34 |
| mkde | i started some | 07:34 |
| mkde | gimme some time ;) | 07:34 |
| froud | do the language documents point to the right files now | 07:34 |
| froud | or still to C | 07:34 |
| mkde | i haven't edited them | 07:34 |
| mkde | but then hardly any images are done | 07:34 |
| froud | OK | 07:35 |
| jeffsch | i looked at a couple of xx .xml yesterday, and they are pointing to C | 07:36 |
| froud | dunno how we are gonna save ourselves the overhead on updating those values each time we generate a new POT | 07:36 |
| mkde | froud, i was just thinking that | 07:37 |
| mkde | there must be a cool way to do it | 07:37 |
| froud | perhaps some sed in a script | 07:37 |
| mkde | :/ | 07:37 |
| jeffsch | maybe if we change them to xx now. then put sym-links to C | 07:37 |
| jeffsch | when the xx screen capt is ready, just overwrite the sym-link | 07:38 |
| mkde | its not that, its more the problem of how to get the links in each document to point to their own language | 07:38 |
| froud | jeffsch: svn 1.0 does not understand symlinks | 07:38 |
| mkde | if possible automatically | 07:38 |
| froud | we can do this when elmo updates to svn 1.1 | 07:39 |
| mkde | froud, there is no way to get links in a document to point to something specified document-wide, e.g. C, it, fr, de etc? | 07:39 |
| froud | which btw will force all authors to update thier local subversion | 07:39 |
| froud | yes there is | 07:39 |
| mkde | thats what we're looking for no? | 07:40 |
| froud | I have added lang ents to global.ent | 07:40 |
| froud | we can do fileref="../some/path/&German;/foo.png" | 07:40 |
| mkde | but will that require each po file to be edited manually for each link? | 07:41 |
| froud | yes I am looking for a method to do &language; | 07:41 |
| mkde | what we really need is for a file reference to refer to the document language and then figure out where to get the image | 07:41 |
| mkde | froud, yeah exactly that sort of thing | 07:41 |
| mkde | that would be so cool | 07:41 |
| froud | I need this mechanism in other places to like <book id="somevalue" lang="&language;"> | 07:42 |
| mkde | yeah | 07:42 |
| froud | started playing with it and will try to find a solution. Until then leave it as it is | 07:43 |
| mkde | ok i'm gonna make something to eat | 07:43 |
| mkde | froud, its not a problem now because most of the docs won't get translated for ages :) | 07:43 |
| froud | sure I am just trying to work ahead as I know the problem will hit us | 07:44 |
| mkde | :) | 07:44 |
| froud | and it forms part of the make system | 07:44 |
| mkde | bbl | 07:44 |
| froud | Ok yes food is a good idea | 07:44 |
| jeffsch | if it's only filerefs that change with language, then maybe <book id="somevalue" fileref="../image/fr"> | 07:44 |
| froud | what we need is language entity defined in the DocType Decl and all language entities take ot from there for processing | 07:45 |
| froud | if we set @lang then all gen texts in the books are auto translated by docbook | 07:46 |
| froud | but the &language; entity can be used in other places like the filerefs so that we cut down on our overhead | 07:46 |
| froud | if we leave it hard coded we are bound to forget something | 07:46 |
| jeffsch | true. | 07:47 |
| jeffsch | hungry. must go. | 07:52 |
| === jeffsch is away: I'll be back | ||
| === maskie [~maskie@196-30-109-235.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| === claude [~claude@10.231.203.62.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
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| === Kaya [~Kaya_@michelet-11-82-226-128-152.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| Kaya | hello | 11:41 |
| Kaya | XBGM (xbgm.sf.net), It's a very nice xbox game manager that some may consider as the Qwix | 11:42 |
| Kaya | for none-MS Windows OSes. | 11:42 |
| Kaya | Now, the software is under the GPL and does not contain any non-free file. You don't need anything non-free to compile and run it either But, i was wondering if the debian-legal team had anything against that | 11:42 |
| Kaya | package since it implies that you have a modified xbox with an alternative OS. There's no way you can use xbgm# if you haven't modchipped or softmodded your xbox. | 11:43 |
| Kaya | So... what do you think? | 11:43 |
| Kaya | Is that possible to add it to Ubuntu | 11:43 |
| Burgundavia | Kaya, you want #ubuntu-motu | 11:44 |
| Kaya | ok thx | 11:45 |
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