[12:34] <mkde> anyone around?
[01:56] <jsgotangco> mdke, ping
[03:02] <jsgotangco> Burgey!!!
[03:04] <Burgundavia> salut
[03:06] <jsgotangco> i got the commit account from james already
[03:07] <Burgundavia> cool
[03:07] <Burgundavia> I need to email my new kye
[03:32] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, when you commit, do you just commit the diff file or the whole xml file?
[03:32] <Burgundavia> just change the file
[03:32] <Burgundavia> then commit
[03:32] <jsgotangco> commit the whole file?
[03:33] <Burgundavia> and it will do all the fancy stuff for you
[03:33] <jsgotangco> ahh
[03:33] <Burgundavia> change and save the file
[03:33] <Burgundavia> ala a normal document on your system
[03:33] <jsgotangco> ok i will test out my account then
[03:33] <jsgotangco> no i changed the actual file
[03:35] <Burgundavia> just make a small change, like a typo, if you want to test it out
[03:35] <Burgundavia> and always make small changes
[03:36] <jsgotangco> yeah thats what i did
[03:38] <jsgotangco> ok its working now
[03:38] <Burgundavia> saw the change in email
[03:38] <jsgotangco> ahhh so everything is automatic
[03:40] <jsgotangco> in ubuntu-doc-commits?
[03:40] <Burgundavia> ubuntu-doc-commits merely shows what has been changed
[03:41] <jsgotangco> ok how did you get the email?
[03:42] <Burgundavia> you need to subscribe to the list
[03:43] <jsgotangco> im subscribed to ubuntu-doc and ubuntu-doc-commits did i miss anything?
[03:44] <Burgundavia> check you email
[03:44] <Burgundavia> you change should be there
[03:45] <jsgotangco> none yet gmail is kinda slow on this but i verified it on the archives it showed diff output so i guess it worked
[03:45] <Burgundavia> have you got any of the changes recently?
[03:47] <jsgotangco> yes i did im sure the email will arrive anytime
[04:06] <jsgotangco> ahh treeview right
[04:08] <jsgotangco> jjesse, hi
[04:12] <jedi0473> hi 
[04:12] <jedi0473> a question 
[04:12] <Burgundavia> sure
[04:12] <Burgundavia> shoot
[04:12] <jedi0473> i installed ubuntu 
[04:13] <jedi0473> in spaish 
[04:13] <Burgundavia> good first step
[04:13] <jedi0473> evrything is ok 
[04:13] <Burgundavia> another good sign
[04:13] <jedi0473> except by the office suite 
[04:13] <Burgundavia> hmm
[04:14] <Burgundavia> you might want to try #ubuntu-es , seeing as you speak spanish
[04:14] <jedi0473> how can i change the lang
[04:15] <jedi0473> but any idea
[04:15] <jedi0473> how can i do it
[04:15] <Burgundavia> sorry, I dont use anything but english. #ubuntu-es would probably be able to help you
[04:16] <jedi0473> ok 
[04:16] <jedi0473> thnk u 
[04:19] <jsgotangco> hmm
[04:19] <jsgotangco> office suite
[04:20] <jsgotangco> i think you need to download language packs
[04:21] <jsgotangco> oh now i know why im not getting real time commit reports im in digest mode *grin*
[04:22] <Burgundavia> oops
[04:25] <jedi0473> lang packs
[04:26] <jedi0473> is ther any repository 
[04:26] <jedi0473> wher to go fo them ?
[04:26] <Burgundavia> should be in main
[04:27] <jedi0473> ok 
[04:28] <jedi0473> thnks
[04:28] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, are you familiar with sed?
[04:37] <jsgotangco> nope
[04:38] <jsgotangco> why?
[04:39] <jsgotangco> i was talking with an australian consul on the phone
[04:39] <Burgundavia> sed s/string to search for/string to replace it with/g
[04:39] <Burgundavia> thus you can cat a document
[04:40] <Burgundavia> cat blah | sed s/blah/BLAH/g > blah
[04:40] <Burgundavia> simple way to replace something
[04:40] <jsgotangco> yeah i was testing out on committing with esvn and i just discovered how to do multiple commits
[04:40] <jsgotangco> thats why i had some very simple commits
[04:41] <jsgotangco> i mean invidividual
[04:41] <jsgotangco> but ill read the man of sed then
[04:42] <Burgundavia> also read about regular expressions
[04:42] <jsgotangco> can it go beyond other folders?
[04:43] <jsgotangco> thru pipe or something like that?
[04:43] <Burgundavia> that is for a single doc
[04:43] <Burgundavia> basically cat blah puts blah to the standard out
[04:43] <Burgundavia> then the pipe passes it to sed
[04:46] <jsgotangco> hmm i just installed 5.04 in a new box..i wish our firefox already had links to ubuntu resources
[07:42] <froud> African Greetings
[07:48] <jsgotangco> hi froud
[07:49] <Burgundavia> salut
[07:50] <froud> Burgundavia: hi, I see our new commiters are having fun :-)
[07:51] <froud> Burgundavia: just gotta help them along and make sure they don't commit anything bad :-)
[07:51] <jsgotangco> hah
[07:51] <froud> jsgotangco: hello dude
[07:51] <froud> so you got it working
[07:53] <jsgotangco> well i did make some blunder on committing individually
[07:53] <jsgotangco> but i went back to the esvn manual and i can commit via the tree which makes it easier
[07:54] <froud> If you select via tree it just does commit of all M or A files in the selected dir
[07:55] <froud> Always svn up before commit and check for conflicts
[07:55] <froud> if conflict then resolve
[07:55] <froud> else commit
[07:55] <froud> fi
[07:55] <jsgotangco> yeah i did that
[07:55] <froud> good boy
[07:56] <froud> about your question on Kde docs
[07:56] <froud> Perhaps you want to pick a document and start outlining it
[07:57] <froud> then post the outline to the list
[07:57] <jsgotangco> good idea i was talking to someone in #kubuntu who asked for a user manual and i told him there's nothing at the moment except Sean's name
[07:58] <froud> alternately, build the out in the xml file and then anounce it on list. that way we can all hack at it and finally we will come to a finished out line
[07:58] <jsgotangco> i can probably refer to the existing userguides and stuff and just move it into kde format
[08:00] <froud> yes you can use them as Ideas
[08:01] <Burgundavia> froud, indeed
[08:02] <froud> chaps how should we do this?
[08:02] <froud> install is common to gubunru and kubuntu
[08:02] <froud> think we should have an installation guide
[08:02] <jsgotangco> you really insist on gubuntu
[08:02] <Burgundavia> gubunru <-- is that the new top secret African distro
[08:02] <froud> in generic
[08:02] <froud> bubuntu
[08:03] <froud> gubuntu
[08:03] <Burgundavia> BOBuntu <-- linux for fat american slobs
[08:03] <Burgundavia> installation guide is good
[08:03] <froud> Burgundavia: think it should be genric though
[08:03] <Burgundavia> once I figure out how, I can use qemu to get the screenshots
[08:04] <Burgundavia> froud, yep
[08:04] <froud> oh qemu is easy
[08:04] <froud> I just created a 2GB img
[08:04] <froud> and installed there
[08:04] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[08:04] <jsgotangco> maybe i should reformat this machine to get some new space
[08:05] <Burgundavia> ok, haven't dug into it yet
[08:05] <froud> now I have working gubuntu and working kubuntu running under SuSE
[08:05] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, just buy another hdd
[08:05] <jsgotangco> on a laptop???
[08:05] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, hmm
[08:05] <froud> jsgotangco: yes extenal drives
[08:05] <jsgotangco> no worries im saving for a shuttle pc
[08:05] <Burgundavia> 2.5" are not that much more
[08:05] <jsgotangco> i might get it next month
[08:06] <froud> Burgundavia: the debian installation guide is nice. but I fear to hectic for our user audience
[08:06] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, i don't have a job...i use my savings at the moment...so money is quite tight
[08:07] <Burgundavia> froud, ideally, the installation guide should simply say exactly what to do for most people
[08:07] <froud> Geez why are so may skilled people without jobs, it really pisses me off
[08:07] <jsgotangco> haven't you seen the Linspire quick guide
[08:07] <froud> jsgotangco: drop the url
[08:08] <Burgundavia> froud, mine is mostly by choice
[08:08] <froud> Burgundavia: you are a special case :-)
[08:08] <jsgotangco> i think Burgundavia mentioned about it before..i dont have it
[08:08] <froud> Burgundavia: drop the linspire installation manual
[08:08] <jsgotangco> well its different to be unemployed in a 3rd world country...
[08:08] <froud> how that
[08:09] <jsgotangco> interest rates are higher, inflation is higher, etc.
[08:09] <jsgotangco> would you believe credit cards here charge 3.5% a month
[08:09] <froud> our inflation is 3.5 percent
[08:10] <jsgotangco> thats why im thinking of emigrating somewhere
[08:10] <froud> come to South Africa dude
[08:10] <froud> it rocks
[08:10] <Burgundavia> http://www.linspire.com/quickstart
[08:10] <Burgundavia> froud, follow that
[08:11] <Burgundavia> froud, yes, I am very special
[08:13] <froud> PDF
[08:13] <jsgotangco> yaagghh
[08:14] <froud> anyone seen minimum spec req for gubuntu and kubuntu
[08:14] <froud> recomended would also be nice
[08:14] <jsgotangco> when you mean gubuntu, its ubuntu with gnome
[08:14] <froud> jsgotangco: yes
[08:14] <jsgotangco> and when we say ubuntu its just base right
[08:14] <froud> server :-)
[08:14] <froud> help us differentiate the distros
[08:15] <froud> otherwise we will be confused all the time
[08:15] <froud> mdke: don't like it :-)
[08:16] <jsgotangco> well if its just for internal use why not
[08:16] <froud> yeah, but I bet it catches on and soon everyone is doing it
[08:17] <jsgotangco> well yeah let's blame riddell
[08:17] <jsgotangco> ok ubuntu we do a desktop neutral guide
[08:17] <jsgotangco> gubuntu we improve existing
[08:17] <jsgotangco> and kubuntu we're doing a new one
[08:17] <froud> yep
[08:20] <froud> hey school run must go
[08:20] <jsgotangco> okay
[08:20] <jsgotangco> later then
[08:34] <froud> that was the school run
[08:37] <froud> Burgundavia: you working on FAQ Guide Right
[08:37] <froud> Burgundavia: we need to profile that doc
[08:39] <Burgundavia> by profile, you mean?
[08:39] <froud> anything specific to gnome should have the os attribute set to os="gnome"
[08:39] <Burgundavia> ah
[08:39] <Burgundavia> fun
[08:39] <Burgundavia> how does one do that?
[08:39] <froud> http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/Profiling.html
[08:40] <froud> we need to decide on what attributes we will be using and what the profiles are
[08:40] <froud> we can get as many documents as we define profiles from one xml document
[08:40] <Burgundavia> I think we can keep it simple
[08:41] <froud> I think for now it is just gnome and kde profiles
[08:41] <Burgundavia> do we have anything that is arch specific?
[08:42] <froud> yes that is another consideration
[08:42] <Burgundavia> our archs are: x86, amd64, ia64, ppc, ppc64
[08:42] <froud> I know we will need arch on Installation guide
[08:42] <Burgundavia> are they doing sparc for this release?
[08:42] <froud> dunno
[08:42] <jsgotangco> well it shouldnt be that complicated i guess its just a matter of tagging them, besides they all use the same method
[08:43] <jsgotangco> or do they?
[08:43] <froud> yes if something is applicable to all then no tag
[08:43] <Burgundavia> well, archs should only be for the installer
[08:44] <froud> yes
[08:44] <jsgotangco> sparc looks cloudy
[08:44] <Burgundavia> does anyboyd have a ppc or ppc64 that we can test the installer to see what is does?
[08:44] <Burgundavia> what about amd54?
[08:44] <Burgundavia> s/54/64
[08:45] <froud> Burgundavia: we can emulate that under qemu
[08:45] <Burgundavia> ah
[08:45] <froud> I have 
[08:45] <froud> qemu-arm         qemu-i386        qemu-ppc         qemu-system-ppc
[08:45] <froud> qemu-fast        qemu-img         qemu-sparc
[08:45] <Burgundavia> hmm
[08:46] <Burgundavia> I thought qemu was x86 specific for some reason
[08:46] <froud> No I thought you could emulate a hardware platform
[08:47] <froud> if you dont specify a platform it defualts to i386
[08:47] <Burgundavia> hmm, I thought I specifically read that qemu is x86
[08:47] <Burgundavia> wrong everyday of the life, as per usual
[08:48] <froud> well we need to decide on the profiles for various docs in generic and document it
[08:48] <froud> Burgundavia: get your new sent
[08:49] <froud> Catholicism leads to guilt
[08:49] <froud> I prefer to be agnostic
[08:50] <Burgundavia> but I also believe in the invisible pink unicorn
[08:50] <jsgotangco> well i grew up as catholic but that does not affect how i work nor contribute here
[08:50] <jsgotangco> my aunt is a nun and my cousin is a priest
[08:50] <jsgotangco> hehe
[08:50] <jsgotangco> have you noticed how catholicism thrives in poor countries
'cause then I can get the theists coming and going</troll>
[08:51] <froud> Burgundavia: can you give some thought to the profiling and place a document in wiki on it and how you propose to profile?
[08:52] <Burgundavia> ugh, that means I have to edit the wiki
[08:52] <Burgundavia> ok, can do
[08:52] <froud> cool, so at least we can know what to do when we upgrade the doc to hoary
[08:57] <froud> I suggest we upgrade faq guide to hoary first I think this will close the gap to the next release
[08:58] <jsgotangco> hmm
[08:59] <jsgotangco> learnlinux..that is nice ive seen the site before
[08:59] <froud> yes I have it at http://learnlinux.tsf.org.za
[08:59] <froud> we are going to improve on it and make it Ubuntu
[09:00] <jsgotangco> are we including this on breezy?
[09:00] <froud> If we get it done
[09:00] <jsgotangco> id like that
[09:00] <Burgundavia> froud, I am actually thinking we skip right past hoary for the faqguide
[09:00] <jsgotangco> stuff like these should be installled by default
[09:00] <Burgundavia> froud, mine is going to be more graphically
[09:00] <Burgundavia> froud, the ubuntu wayTM
[09:01] <froud> It is a good task for authors who want to learn linux
[09:01] <froud> Burgundavia: if you feel that is the way to go
[09:01] <jsgotangco> what needs to be done in generic?
[09:01] <froud> what do you mean
[09:02] <Burgundavia> froud, well, the faqguide is already being done for hoary, by chen
[09:02] <Burgundavia> froud, so why do a bunch of work that is already done and that I question the value of in the first place
[09:02] <jsgotangco> is there a place where we have a ToDo list or who's doing stuff in our ever lovable wiki
[09:02] <froud> Burgundavia: yes somewhere
[09:03] <Burgundavia> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/Profiling
[09:03] <froud> Burgundavia: I dont think that there will be much diff between a faq fo rhoary and a faq for brezzy
[09:04] <Burgundavia> mostly the screenshots
[09:04] <froud> You think faq should have screenshots
[09:04] <froud> is it not better to link to documents
[09:04] <jsgotangco> i think not if it has, its a guide
[09:04] <Burgundavia> I am thinking screenshots of exactly what to do
[09:05] <Burgundavia> ala
[09:05] <Burgundavia> click here
[09:05] <Burgundavia> that brings up this
[09:05] <Burgundavia> click here
[09:05] <Burgundavia> type this in
[09:05] <froud> can I rename Profiling to DocteamProfiling
[09:05] <Burgundavia> sure
[09:05] <Burgundavia> I have no emotional attachment to the name
[09:06] <froud> we decided on that convention to keep our stuff out of the rest
[09:06] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:07] <froud> once you have an idea on which attributes we will use for what and what the profiles are, put it up there
[09:07] <froud> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamProfiling
[09:08] <froud> Burgundavia: it may make the faq guide very long
[09:08] <froud> Burgundavia: perhaps write a section in a doc and then using XPointer
[09:08] <froud> include it to the Faq
[09:08] <froud> that way it will be easier to manage the faq
[09:08] <jsgotangco> userlevel is a nice attribute
[09:09] <froud> as we update nodes in the documents we get updates in the faq
[09:10] <froud> since I have made most docs a single xml instance it should be easier for us to manage XPointers
[09:10] <froud> jsgotangco: yes, but profiling to user levels is compounded problem
[09:11] <froud> the doc itself is already at a user level
[09:11] <jsgotangco> good point
[09:11] <froud> makeing user level inside user level is ARPITA
[09:12] <froud> Burgundavia: what do you think?
[09:12] <Burgundavia> I am uncertain how xpointers work
[09:13] <Burgundavia> froud, take a look at the wiki page now
[09:13] <froud> http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/ModularDoc.html
[09:14] <Burgundavia> ahh
[09:14] <Burgundavia> I see
[09:14] <Burgundavia> so I can create something like: To install Example App
[09:14] <Burgundavia> xinclude:Starting synatpic
[09:14] <Burgundavia> then say search for Example app
[09:14] <Burgundavia> xinclude:Installingfurthercrapprocess
[09:14] <Burgundavia> correct?
[09:15] <froud> yes XInclude the nodes you want in the faq guide so long as your xinludes and xpointers result in a valid xml doc it works
[09:15] <froud> all you need is an uniq id on the node
[09:16] <Burgundavia> basically achieving the same thing the faqguide does with the (adding extra repos), etc, at the beginning of his instructions
[09:16] <Burgundavia> is all that stuff done on the fly?
[09:16] <froud> what stuff
[09:16] <Burgundavia> the xinclude, would that be pulled in by yelp as the doc is generated?
[09:17] <froud> faq guide is not going into yelp
[09:17] <froud> but yes the XIncludes are expanded at proc
[09:18] <froud> I am building an Ubuntu Toolbar for Mozilla
[09:18] <froud> most of the docs will be plain html
[09:18] <froud> with css
[09:18] <froud> accessed via the Ubuntu Toolbar
[09:18] <froud> Only GNOME Docs are set for Yelp
[09:19] <froud> generic and kde are not
[09:19] <froud> KHelpcenter reads plain any HTML
[09:28] <jsgotangco> hmm so it would be much easier to do docs on kubuntu
[09:28] <Burgundavia> bah
[09:28] <Burgundavia> already outnumbered
[09:37] <jsgotangco> Inter may be expelled from Champions League
[09:37] <jsgotangco> HAR HAR HAR
[09:37] <Burgundavia> Inter Milan?
[09:38] <jsgotangco> yeah
[09:38] <jsgotangco> there was a match
[09:38] <jsgotangco> it went ugly
[09:38] <jsgotangco> the people watching threw flares in the field
[09:40] <froud> ok https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamProfiling update. I am now off to meetings. c ya all later
[09:43] <jsgotangco> i gotta go to and do the groceries
[09:43] <jsgotangco> later
[10:02] <mdke> morning all
[10:18] <Burgundavia> salut
[03:21] <Burgundavia> salut
[03:22] <mpt> bonsoir
[03:22] <Burgundavia> bon matin
[03:22] <Kinnison> salut burgerboi
[03:22] <Burgundavia> Kinnison, hey kinnison
[03:22] <Burgundavia> hmm
[03:22] <Burgundavia> tired
[03:23] <Kinnison> sleeeeeeeeep
[03:23] <Burgundavia> Kinnison, mpt Burgundavia: Smile sweetly at a programmer or three, and ask them to implement a way to highlight actual controls in a program's window when a button is pressed in that window's help file.
[03:23] <Burgundavia> Burgundavia mpt, that is a lot of programmers to smile sweetly at. My ass might get a little sore
[03:23] <Burgundavia> thinking of you my dear
[03:24] <mpt> ehh
[03:24] <Burgundavia> nev mind
[03:24] <Burgundavia> gtk 1.x apps need to die
[03:25] <Kinnison> aye
[03:25] <Burgundavia> mpt, take a look at aria
[03:25] <Burgundavia> what a mess
[03:25] <mpt> aria is a gtk 1.x app?
[03:25] <Burgundavia> yep
[03:25] <Burgundavia> non-higgy
[03:25] <Burgundavia> very stable though
[03:26] <Burgundavia> unfortuately, the fireget xpi is borked
[03:26] <mpt> what does it do?
[03:26] <Burgundavia> download manager
[03:27] <Burgundavia> http://aria.rednoah.com/
[03:28] <Burgundavia> arrr
[03:28] <Burgundavia> gnome will not mount a cd as an audio cd and a data cd at the same time
[03:29] <mpt> Burgundavia: Would I be shot at if I admitted that the highlighting actual controls idea isn't mine, but is from a now-defunct OS?
[03:30] <Burgundavia> beos or amiga?
[03:30] <mpt> neither
[03:30] <Burgundavia> what?
[03:30] <mpt> Mac OS 7.5-8 (but not 9 or X)
[03:30] <Burgundavia> I though those were the holy grails of usablity (sorry)
[03:30] <mpt> http://www.quinn.echidna.id.au/Quinn/WWW/HISubtleties/AppleGuideCoachMarks.html
[03:30] <Burgundavia> hmm
[03:31] <Burgundavia> nice
[03:31] <Burgundavia> that could be done without modifying the app
[03:31] <mpt> You need to be able to open the app's menus programmatically
[03:32] <Burgundavia> true
[03:32] <mpt> actually, what am I talking about
[03:32] <mpt> no you don't
[03:32] <Burgundavia> what you need is a frame work
[03:32] <mpt> the way it worked was that it would highlight the menu, and say, e.g. "first, open the File menu"
[03:32] <Burgundavia> not much of a programmer, though
[03:32] <mpt> then when you opened it, it would say "next, choose 'Save As...'"
[03:32] <mpt> etc
[03:33] <mpt> So yeah, you need to be able to detect when things have happened in the app
[03:33] <mpt> as well as just highlighting controls
[03:34] <Burgundavia> mark should throw some money at it
[03:34] <Burgundavia> develop a spec under the auspices of fd.o
[03:34] <mpt> If I showed it to him he'd say "That's such CRACK!"
[03:34] <Burgundavia> mark is different
[03:35] <mpt> ok, I don't know that for sure
[03:35] <Burgundavia> we need some good first 20 minutes help stuff
[03:35] <Burgundavia> that is where most help falls down
[03:35] <mpt> yes
[03:35] <Burgundavia> and most distros specifically
[03:35] <mpt> as in, first 20 minutes in Ubuntu?
[03:35] <Burgundavia> yep
[03:35] <Burgundavia> setting up multimedia
[03:35] <Burgundavia> menus
[03:35] <Burgundavia> updating system
[03:36] <mpt> why doesn't updating start itself automatically?
[03:36] <Burgundavia> mostly I find my usablity bugs within 1 minutes of opening and using an app
[03:36] <Burgundavia> mpt, it does on install
[03:37] <Burgundavia> and it does the apt-get update part
[03:37] <Burgundavia> it just won't install by default
[03:37] <mpt> ew
[03:37] <Burgundavia> at least now it throws a red thing up there
[03:37] <mpt> oh, right
[03:37] <Burgundavia> warty didn't have anything
[03:37] <mpt> stick a help balloon on it, or something
[03:37] <Burgundavia> ugh
[03:37] <mpt> heh
[03:38] <Burgundavia> help ballons are possibly one of the most annoying things a system can do
[03:38] <Burgundavia> and they don't help
[03:38] <Burgundavia> they just annoy users
[03:38] <mpt> Well, consider that previous versions of Windows used alerts for the same purpose
[03:38] <mpt> that was worse
[03:39] <mpt> ok, aria is kinda scary
[03:39] <Burgundavia> when you run windows in a corp environment, the 1st thing it says, with a balloon, is "there are unused icons on our desktop"
[03:39] <Burgundavia> mpt, fireget and gwget is coming along quite nicely from what I understand
[03:39] <Burgundavia> but fireget xpi download link it borked
[03:40] <mpt> Burgundavia: Hey now, that's not fair, that's a good idea misused
[03:40] <Burgundavia> hmm
[03:40] <mpt> If there are unused icons on my desktop I'll clean them up in my own good time :-)
[03:40] <Burgundavia> the balloon is much overused in windows
[03:40] <mpt> yes
[03:40] <Burgundavia> and I agree with don't install automatically
[03:41] <Burgundavia> breaks the principle of not changing something without the users input
[03:41] <mpt> oh, true
[03:41] <mpt> I didn't understand what you meant
[03:41] <mpt> jdub (I think) pointed the other day to someone's notification system that ...
[03:41] <mpt> no, it was wmf
[03:41] <mpt> one moment
[03:42] <mpt> ah, no, it was a Weblog entry in one of the Weblogs that linked to mine
[03:42] <mpt> I'll never find it again now
[03:42] <Burgundavia> a balloon one?
[03:42] <mpt> anyway, they'd made this notification system just for apps to make balloon-like things with
[03:42] <mpt> and they were stacked vertically down the side of the screen
[03:42] <mpt> balloon city
[03:43] <Burgundavia> that was for jabber I think
[03:43] <Burgundavia> http://www.kismith.co.uk/wordpress/index.php/2005/04/12/new-in-the-psi-world/
[03:43] <Burgundavia> this one?
[03:45] <mpt> that looks like it
[03:45] <Burgundavia> what would you use it for?
[03:46] <mpt> but I seem to remember it wasn't being used for IM
[03:46] <mpt> In the screenshot I saw, it was for "download complete"-kinda things
[03:46] <Burgundavia> hmm
[03:46] <Burgundavia> never saw that
[03:48] <Burgundavia> played with beagle at all?
[03:48] <mpt> no
[03:48] <Burgundavia> is very nice
[03:48] <Burgundavia> if very alpha
[03:50] <mpt> Looks like a competitor to http://www.google.com/
[03:50] <mpt> Not a competitor to Google, but to http://www.google.com/
[03:51] <Burgundavia> beagle is spotlight
[03:51] <jsgotangco> bah
[03:51] <jsgotangco> :)
[03:52] <jsgotangco> whoa they sent room assignments already
[03:52] <Burgundavia> lucky bugger
[03:52] <Burgundavia> going to UDU
[03:52] <jsgotangco> im with Andrew Mitchell
[03:52] <jsgotangco> hehe
[03:52] <mpt> See, one day Google will have a Web-based calendar, and at http://www.google.com/ you'll type "meeting with Burgundavia at 3pm", and it'll add an appointment to your calendar instead of doing a Web search
[03:52] <Burgundavia> mpt, check out the hula project
[03:52] <Burgundavia> looks very cool
[03:53] <mpt> I did, a few weeks ago
[03:53] <mpt> to see if it could be used for Launchpad
[03:53] <Burgundavia> there is hula in the hoary repos
[03:54] <Burgundavia> good thing I went to Mataro. tickets to aussie start at 2,800 CAD
[03:55] <jsgotangco> jeezzz
[03:55] <mpt> arg, I still need to get accommodation
[03:56] <Burgundavia> is canonical not putting you up mpt?
[03:56] <mpt> oh, yeah, they are for UDU, but I'm going a couple of days early
[03:57] <Burgundavia> ah
[03:57] <Burgundavia> cool
[03:57] <Burgundavia> 3974 for canberra
[03:57] <mpt> like when I went to Montreal, the time they were putting me up I was in the Ritz Carlton, and I stayed an extra couple of days in ... a youth hostel
[03:58] <Burgundavia> mpt, were you at Mataro?
[03:58] <mpt> No, when Mataro was held, I didn't know Ubuntu existed
[03:58] <Burgundavia> how did you get hired? are you a dd?
[03:59] <mpt> No, I meant to install Debian but never got around to it
[03:59] <Burgundavia> I assume then you have experience with OSS development>?
[03:59] <jsgotangco> what does it take to get hired by canonical anyway
[04:00] <mpt> Yeah, I contributed in various ways to Mozilla for a few years
[04:00] <Burgundavia> though by choice
[04:00] <jsgotangco> well
[04:00] <Burgundavia> I left a windows helpdesk monkey job
[04:00] <jsgotangco> thats one thing
[04:01] <jsgotangco> i was handling 3 oracle servers till the company went kaput
[04:01] <mpt> jsgotangco: Know the right people
[04:01] <Burgundavia> sell yourself well
[04:02] <Burgundavia> I didn't do so well I when I first talked to mark
[04:02] <jsgotangco> at least being jobless at the moment gave me a lot of opportunities with OSS
[04:02] <jsgotangco> im just thinking its a good training for now
[04:03] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia will the profiling be de and arch specific?
[04:03] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, that is the point
[04:03] <Burgundavia> profile all our docs to be that
[04:05] <jsgotangco> we should really have a meeting before UDU
[04:05] <Burgundavia> we are
[04:05] <Burgundavia> mpt, read the list
[04:06] <Burgundavia> mpt, the doc one
[04:08] <jsgotangco> when i read mpt's piece i didnt know he was canonical
[04:08] <jsgotangco> until someone pointed out
[04:09] <Burgundavia> I had never seen him around, so I was surprised as well
[04:09] <mpt> Burgundavia: I will, as soon as my e-mail is working again
[04:10] <jsgotangco> i might look at my xp box and how they did their techincal documentation
[04:10] <jsgotangco> maybe i can learn something from that
[04:10] <jsgotangco> a lot of the kubuntu users are asking for one as well
[04:11] <mpt> jsgotangco: technical documentation?
[04:11] <mpt> jsgotangco: You mean user help, or something else?
[04:11] <jsgotangco> i mean user help yes
[04:12] <Burgundavia> xps help is crap
[04:12] <Burgundavia> most docs in the computer world are crap
[04:12] <Burgundavia> that is why oreilly makes a fortune selling good books
[04:12] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia at least they are more accessible IMO
[04:13] <Burgundavia> XP has search
[04:14] <mpt> Yes, XP's help is crap
[04:14] <jsgotangco> right, but like you said before, "logical flow of information from doc to wiki"
[04:14] <mpt> The content is good, but the layout is terrible
[04:14] <Burgundavia> I belive sean said that
[04:14] <mpt> It practically takes over the entire screen
[04:15] <Burgundavia> xp likes to eat screen realestate
[04:15] <Burgundavia> ballons, dogs, etc.
[04:15] <mpt> task panes
[04:15] <mpt> sidebars
[04:15] <Burgundavia> sidebars that you cant edit by right click or drag and drop
[04:15] <jsgotangco> ok ok i get your point but still if it can help, it will help
[04:15] <Burgundavia> the issue is not really of writing good docs
[04:15] <Burgundavia> it is of delivering them in a good way
[04:16] <jsgotangco> i think we are talented enough to write good books
[04:16] <mpt> Books, undoubtedly
[04:16] <mpt> Help? possibly :-)
[04:16] <jsgotangco> *grin*
[04:17] <Burgundavia> what we really need to think about is, how many less words can this be said in
[04:17] <mpt> Yes, fewer words and fewer syllables with the same meaning
[04:17] <jsgotangco> is that why you want to make your stuff visually
[04:18] <mpt> my stuff visually?
[04:18] <jsgotangco> no, Burgundavia
[04:18] <mpt> oh
[04:18] <jsgotangco> he was talking about an FAQ that had a lot of images and stuff
[04:19] <jsgotangco> if you want to do this, click this, bla bla
[04:22] <jsgotangco> http://www.wordpress.tokyotimes.org/index.php?p=510
[04:23] <jsgotangco> jeezz
[04:26] <jsgotangco> ackkk acrobat 7 for linux is 37.6MB what the...
[04:26] <Burgundavia> acrobat 7 also contains spyware
[04:27] <Burgundavia> kpdf/evince is better
[04:27] <jsgotangco> kpdf is good
[04:27] <jsgotangco> i havent tried evince
[04:27] <Burgundavia> they both now use the poppler backend
[04:28] <jsgotangco> isnt poppler based on xpdf
[04:30] <jsgotangco> oh well gotta sleep too
[04:30] <jsgotangco> night!
[04:30] <Burgundavia> ok
[05:53] <mdke> hi all
[05:59] <Burgundavia> salut
[06:03] <mdke> hi Burgundavia 
[06:03] <mdke> nice email
[06:03] <Burgundavia> which one?
[06:03] <Burgundavia> devel or doc?
[06:03] <mdke> doc
[06:03] <Burgundavia> 1. he works for canonical? that one?
[06:03] <mdke> yeah
[06:03] <mdke> i also agree
[06:04] <mdke> there is no need to take that blog as a personal critique of our efforts, its useful
[06:04] <mdke> although I only read the Help section
[06:04] <Burgundavia> He sets very high standards on usablity
[06:04] <Burgundavia> so do I
[06:04] <Burgundavia> read the scrollback here and ubuntu-devel
[06:04] <mdke> high standards are essential
[06:05] <mdke> if we can't hit em, due to time/people limitations, then so be it, but we should set em
[06:09] <mdke> hmm
[06:09] <mdke> how far back am i going in #ubuntu-devel?
[06:10] <mdke> Burgundavia ross, Ubuntu doc team already maintains a complete set for main
[06:10] <mdke> Treenaks Burgundavia: in all languages?
[06:10] <mdke> the languages are todo
[06:10] <mdke> but then that applies to the docs as well ;)
[06:11] <Burgundavia> everything is always todo
[06:11] <Burgundavia> I should write a script to do it
[06:12] <mdke> to take screenshots, or to translate docs?
[06:12] <mdke> i'd like to see you write a script for either ;p
[06:12] <Burgundavia> take screenshots
[06:12] <Burgundavia> I need to play with imagemagick
[06:12] <mdke> we need to discuss the question of size tho
[06:12] <Burgundavia> I think we need to shrink the size in the quickguide
[06:13] <mdke> Burgundavia, are we extending the topic of the meeting to more general things? if so, we can add that to the agenda
[06:13] <mdke> i've started gradually to take some screenshots in different languages, but it would help if things are a bit more certain about size, and maybe compression too
[06:15] <Burgundavia> see the list
[06:15] <mdke> gottit
[06:17] <mdke> Burgundavia, btw
[06:17] <Burgundavia> yes>
[06:17] <mdke> check out the gnome/images/C/aboutubuntu.png
[06:17] <Burgundavia> ok
[06:17] <mdke> do you think for the l18n ones I should do a shot of yelp-aboutubuntu?
[06:17] <mdke> rather than firefox
[06:17] <mdke> since its in the menu
[06:19] <Burgundavia> hmm
[06:19] <Burgundavia> I don't completely understand
[06:20] <mdke> oh
[06:20] <mdke> well that pic is of firefox with the aboutubuntu text in
[06:20] <mdke> rather than yelp
[06:21] <Burgundavia> we should probably use ff
[06:21] <Burgundavia> as we going to be switching, hopefully, to seans xul toolbar
[06:21] <mdke> right
[06:21] <mdke> i'll wait on it
[06:22] <mdke> changing comps
[06:31] <Burgundavia> hmm
[06:32] <Burgundavia> did you catch the tone from seans last emails?
[06:32] <Burgundavia> or am I reading him wrong?
[06:32] <mkde> yes
[06:32] <mkde> (i caught it)
[06:46] <jjesse> afternoon everyone (or whatever time of day it is where youa re at)
[06:46] <mkde> hi jjesse 
[06:47] <Burgundavia> salut
[06:47] <Burgundavia> jjesse, mpt is not as bad as that
[06:48] <mkde> +1
[06:48] <mkde> :p
[06:55] <jjesse> thats just how the tone came across i know it is hard to tell tone of voice in an email
[06:57] <Burgundavia> mpt is actually quite sane
[06:57] <Burgundavia> he sets very high standards
[06:57] <Burgundavia> which is good
[06:58] <jjesse> i figured, but that is how the reveiw came across to me
[06:58] <jjesse> i enjoy ubuntu more then any distro i've ever tried and i've tried them all
[06:59] <Burgundavia> did you read his 48 hours enduring mac os x
[06:59] <jjesse> slackware, debian, suse, fedora core 1 and core 2 and several others
[06:59] <jjesse> no i didn't
[06:59] <Burgundavia> if you read the bug report about mozilla, you see that his idea got lost in infighting amongst the mozilla devs
[06:59] <Burgundavia> http://www.goteborgcityairport.se/
[06:59] <Burgundavia> can anybody else get through to that?
[07:00] <jjesse> doesn't load all the way
[07:00] <Burgundavia> hmm
[07:00] <Burgundavia> I get nothing
[07:01] <jeffsch> i get nothing too
[07:02] <Burgundavia> anyway
[07:04] <Burgundavia> what really needs to be discussed at the meeting?
[07:08] <mkde> the mdz list of stuff we need to have frozen with decent notive
[07:08] <mkde> s/notive/notice
[07:09] <mkde> also we can discuss general ideas about structure of docs?
[07:10] <mkde> as raised by the blog
[07:10] <mkde> but dunno if people wanna turn it into a full blown meeting
[07:12] <jjesse> what was the link again to the meeting time ?
[07:12] <mkde> DocteamNextIRCMeeting
[07:13] <jjesse> thanks
[07:28] <froud> hi, i see we have lots of different views
[07:28] <mkde> hi froud
[07:29] <froud> hi mdke 
[07:29] <mkde> you ok?
[07:29] <froud> pushing deadlines al day, if my messages seem short and curt then it is cause of pressure
[07:29] <mkde> hope you got everything done
[07:30] <froud> yep dont you just love customers that want it yesterday and tell you today
[07:30] <Burgundavia> froud, ok, it just didn't seem like your usual style
[07:30] <mkde> i don't have any customers :)
[07:30] <Burgundavia> bah
[07:30] <Burgundavia> wiki is not letting me login
[07:31] <mkde> works here
[07:31] <mkde> check your email address/pass
[07:32] <mkde> once happened to me when i changed my email in launchpad and didn't realise it affects the whole site
[07:33] <Burgundavia> it logs me in
[07:33] <froud> quick sit rap are all image file refs now updated?
[07:33] <mkde> cool
[07:33] <mkde> not sure froud 
[07:34] <froud> I saw we now have language captures
[07:34] <mkde> i started some
[07:34] <mkde> gimme some time ;)
[07:34] <froud> do the language documents point to the right files now
[07:34] <froud> or still to C
[07:34] <mkde> i haven't edited them
[07:34] <mkde> but then hardly any images are done
[07:35] <froud> OK
[07:36] <jeffsch> i looked at a couple of xx .xml yesterday, and they are pointing to C
[07:36] <froud> dunno how we are gonna save ourselves the overhead on updating those values each time we generate a new POT
[07:37] <mkde> froud, i was just thinking that
[07:37] <mkde> there must be a cool way to do it
[07:37] <froud> perhaps some sed in a script
[07:37] <mkde> :/
[07:37] <jeffsch> maybe if we change them to xx now. then put sym-links to C
[07:38] <jeffsch> when the xx screen capt is ready, just overwrite the sym-link
[07:38] <mkde> its not that, its more the problem of how to get the links in each document to point to their own language
[07:38] <froud> jeffsch: svn 1.0 does not understand symlinks
[07:38] <mkde> if possible automatically
[07:39] <froud> we can do this when elmo updates to svn 1.1
[07:39] <mkde> froud, there is no way to get links in a document to point to something specified document-wide, e.g. C, it, fr, de etc?
[07:39] <froud> which btw will force all authors to update thier local subversion
[07:39] <froud> yes there is
[07:40] <mkde> thats what we're looking for no?
[07:40] <froud> I have added lang ents to global.ent
[07:40] <froud> we can do fileref="../some/path/&German;/foo.png"
[07:41] <mkde> but will that require each po file to be edited manually for each link?
[07:41] <froud> yes I am looking for a method to do &language;
[07:41] <mkde> what we really need is for a file reference to refer to the document language and then figure out where to get the image
[07:41] <mkde> froud, yeah exactly that sort of thing
[07:41] <mkde> that would be so cool
[07:42] <froud> I need this mechanism in other places to like <book id="somevalue" lang="&language;">
[07:42] <mkde> yeah
[07:43] <froud> started playing with it and will try to find a solution. Until then leave it as it is
[07:43] <mkde> ok i'm gonna make something to eat
[07:43] <mkde> froud, its not a problem now because most of the docs won't get translated for ages :)
[07:44] <froud> sure I am just trying to work ahead as I know the problem will hit us
[07:44] <mkde> :)
[07:44] <froud> and it forms part of the make system
[07:44] <mkde> bbl
[07:44] <froud> Ok yes food is a good idea
[07:44] <jeffsch> if it's only filerefs that change with language, then maybe <book id="somevalue" fileref="../image/fr">
[07:45] <froud> what we need is language entity defined in the DocType Decl and all language entities take ot from there for processing
[07:46] <froud> if we set @lang then all gen texts in the books are auto translated by docbook
[07:46] <froud> but the &language; entity can be used in other places like the filerefs so that we cut down on our overhead
[07:46] <froud> if we leave it hard coded we are bound to forget something
[07:47] <jeffsch> true.
[07:52] <jeffsch> hungry. must go.
[11:41] <Kaya> hello
[11:42] <Kaya> XBGM (xbgm.sf.net), It's a very nice xbox game manager that some may consider as the Qwix
[11:42] <Kaya> for none-MS Windows OSes.
[11:42] <Kaya> Now, the software is under the GPL and does not contain any non-free file. You don't need anything non-free to compile and run it either But, i was wondering if the debian-legal team had anything against that 
[11:43] <Kaya> package since it implies that you have a modified xbox with an alternative OS. There's no way you can use xbgm# if you haven't modchipped or softmodded your xbox.
[11:43] <Kaya> So... what do you think? 
[11:43] <Kaya> Is that possible to add it to Ubuntu
[11:44] <Burgundavia> Kaya, you want #ubuntu-motu
[11:45] <Kaya> ok thx