[12:34] anyone around? === jsgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:56] mdke, ping === Burgundavia [~corey@24.68.134.11] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:02] Burgey!!! [03:04] salut [03:06] i got the commit account from james already [03:07] cool [03:07] I need to email my new kye [03:32] Burgundavia, when you commit, do you just commit the diff file or the whole xml file? [03:32] just change the file [03:32] then commit [03:32] commit the whole file? [03:33] and it will do all the fancy stuff for you [03:33] ahh [03:33] change and save the file [03:33] ala a normal document on your system [03:33] ok i will test out my account then [03:33] no i changed the actual file [03:35] just make a small change, like a typo, if you want to test it out [03:35] and always make small changes [03:36] yeah thats what i did [03:38] ok its working now [03:38] saw the change in email [03:38] ahhh so everything is automatic [03:40] in ubuntu-doc-commits? [03:40] ubuntu-doc-commits merely shows what has been changed [03:41] ok how did you get the email? [03:42] you need to subscribe to the list [03:43] im subscribed to ubuntu-doc and ubuntu-doc-commits did i miss anything? [03:44] check you email [03:44] you change should be there [03:45] none yet gmail is kinda slow on this but i verified it on the archives it showed diff output so i guess it worked [03:45] have you got any of the changes recently? [03:47] yes i did im sure the email will arrive anytime [04:06] ahh treeview right [04:08] jjesse, hi === jedi0473 [~bootertro@217.149.144.146] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:12] hi [04:12] a question [04:12] sure [04:12] shoot [04:12] i installed ubuntu [04:13] in spaish [04:13] good first step [04:13] evrything is ok [04:13] another good sign [04:13] except by the office suite [04:13] hmm [04:14] you might want to try #ubuntu-es , seeing as you speak spanish [04:14] how can i change the lang [04:15] but any idea [04:15] how can i do it [04:15] sorry, I dont use anything but english. #ubuntu-es would probably be able to help you [04:16] ok [04:16] thnk u [04:19] hmm [04:19] office suite [04:20] i think you need to download language packs [04:21] oh now i know why im not getting real time commit reports im in digest mode *grin* [04:22] oops [04:25] lang packs [04:26] is ther any repository [04:26] wher to go fo them ? [04:26] should be in main [04:27] ok [04:28] thnks [04:28] jsgotangco, are you familiar with sed? === jedi0473 [~bootertro@217.149.144.146] has left #ubuntu-doc [] [04:37] nope [04:38] why? [04:39] i was talking with an australian consul on the phone [04:39] sed s/string to search for/string to replace it with/g [04:39] thus you can cat a document [04:40] cat blah | sed s/blah/BLAH/g > blah [04:40] simple way to replace something [04:40] yeah i was testing out on committing with esvn and i just discovered how to do multiple commits [04:40] thats why i had some very simple commits [04:41] i mean invidividual [04:41] but ill read the man of sed then [04:42] also read about regular expressions [04:42] can it go beyond other folders? [04:43] thru pipe or something like that? [04:43] that is for a single doc [04:43] basically cat blah puts blah to the standard out [04:43] then the pipe passes it to sed [04:46] hmm i just installed 5.04 in a new box..i wish our firefox already had links to ubuntu resources [07:42] African Greetings [07:48] hi froud [07:49] salut [07:50] Burgundavia: hi, I see our new commiters are having fun :-) [07:51] Burgundavia: just gotta help them along and make sure they don't commit anything bad :-) [07:51] hah [07:51] jsgotangco: hello dude [07:51] so you got it working [07:53] well i did make some blunder on committing individually [07:53] but i went back to the esvn manual and i can commit via the tree which makes it easier [07:54] If you select via tree it just does commit of all M or A files in the selected dir [07:55] Always svn up before commit and check for conflicts [07:55] if conflict then resolve [07:55] else commit [07:55] fi [07:55] yeah i did that [07:55] good boy [07:56] about your question on Kde docs [07:56] Perhaps you want to pick a document and start outlining it [07:57] then post the outline to the list [07:57] good idea i was talking to someone in #kubuntu who asked for a user manual and i told him there's nothing at the moment except Sean's name [07:58] alternately, build the out in the xml file and then anounce it on list. that way we can all hack at it and finally we will come to a finished out line [07:58] i can probably refer to the existing userguides and stuff and just move it into kde format [08:00] yes you can use them as Ideas [08:01] froud, indeed [08:02] chaps how should we do this? [08:02] install is common to gubunru and kubuntu [08:02] think we should have an installation guide [08:02] you really insist on gubuntu [08:02] gubunru <-- is that the new top secret African distro [08:02] in generic [08:02] bubuntu [08:03] gubuntu [08:03] BOBuntu <-- linux for fat american slobs [08:03] installation guide is good [08:03] Burgundavia: think it should be genric though [08:03] once I figure out how, I can use qemu to get the screenshots [08:04] froud, yep [08:04] oh qemu is easy [08:04] I just created a 2GB img [08:04] and installed there [08:04] hmmm [08:04] maybe i should reformat this machine to get some new space [08:05] ok, haven't dug into it yet [08:05] now I have working gubuntu and working kubuntu running under SuSE [08:05] jsgotangco, just buy another hdd [08:05] on a laptop??? [08:05] jsgotangco, hmm [08:05] jsgotangco: yes extenal drives [08:05] no worries im saving for a shuttle pc [08:05] 2.5" are not that much more [08:05] i might get it next month [08:06] Burgundavia: the debian installation guide is nice. but I fear to hectic for our user audience [08:06] Burgundavia, i don't have a job...i use my savings at the moment...so money is quite tight [08:07] froud, ideally, the installation guide should simply say exactly what to do for most people [08:07] Geez why are so may skilled people without jobs, it really pisses me off [08:07] haven't you seen the Linspire quick guide [08:07] jsgotangco: drop the url [08:08] froud, mine is mostly by choice [08:08] Burgundavia: you are a special case :-) [08:08] i think Burgundavia mentioned about it before..i dont have it [08:08] Burgundavia: drop the linspire installation manual [08:08] well its different to be unemployed in a 3rd world country... [08:08] how that [08:09] interest rates are higher, inflation is higher, etc. [08:09] would you believe credit cards here charge 3.5% a month [08:09] our inflation is 3.5 percent [08:10] thats why im thinking of emigrating somewhere [08:10] come to South Africa dude [08:10] it rocks [08:10] http://www.linspire.com/quickstart [08:10] froud, follow that [08:11] froud, yes, I am very special [08:13] PDF [08:13] yaagghh [08:14] anyone seen minimum spec req for gubuntu and kubuntu [08:14] recomended would also be nice [08:14] when you mean gubuntu, its ubuntu with gnome [08:14] jsgotangco: yes [08:14] and when we say ubuntu its just base right [08:14] server :-) [08:14] help us differentiate the distros [08:15] otherwise we will be confused all the time [08:15] mdke: don't like it :-) [08:16] well if its just for internal use why not [08:16] yeah, but I bet it catches on and soon everyone is doing it [08:17] well yeah let's blame riddell [08:17] ok ubuntu we do a desktop neutral guide [08:17] gubuntu we improve existing [08:17] and kubuntu we're doing a new one [08:17] yep [08:20] hey school run must go [08:20] okay [08:20] later then [08:34] that was the school run [08:37] Burgundavia: you working on FAQ Guide Right [08:37] Burgundavia: we need to profile that doc [08:39] by profile, you mean? [08:39] anything specific to gnome should have the os attribute set to os="gnome" [08:39] ah [08:39] fun [08:39] how does one do that? [08:39] http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/Profiling.html [08:40] we need to decide on what attributes we will be using and what the profiles are [08:40] we can get as many documents as we define profiles from one xml document [08:40] I think we can keep it simple [08:41] I think for now it is just gnome and kde profiles [08:41] do we have anything that is arch specific? [08:42] yes that is another consideration [08:42] our archs are: x86, amd64, ia64, ppc, ppc64 [08:42] I know we will need arch on Installation guide [08:42] are they doing sparc for this release? [08:42] dunno [08:42] well it shouldnt be that complicated i guess its just a matter of tagging them, besides they all use the same method [08:43] or do they? [08:43] yes if something is applicable to all then no tag [08:43] well, archs should only be for the installer [08:44] yes [08:44] sparc looks cloudy [08:44] does anyboyd have a ppc or ppc64 that we can test the installer to see what is does? [08:44] what about amd54? [08:44] s/54/64 [08:45] Burgundavia: we can emulate that under qemu [08:45] ah [08:45] I have [08:45] qemu-arm qemu-i386 qemu-ppc qemu-system-ppc [08:45] qemu-fast qemu-img qemu-sparc [08:45] hmm [08:46] I thought qemu was x86 specific for some reason [08:46] No I thought you could emulate a hardware platform [08:47] if you dont specify a platform it defualts to i386 [08:47] hmm, I thought I specifically read that qemu is x86 [08:47] wrong everyday of the life, as per usual === Burgundavia grumbles about commit access [08:48] well we need to decide on the profiles for various docs in generic and document it [08:48] Burgundavia: get your new sent === Burgundavia is grumbling generally. Still pissed off at himself [08:49] Catholicism leads to guilt === Burgundavia is an atheist [08:49] I prefer to be agnostic [08:50] but I also believe in the invisible pink unicorn [08:50] well i grew up as catholic but that does not affect how i work nor contribute here [08:50] my aunt is a nun and my cousin is a priest [08:50] hehe [08:50] have you noticed how catholicism thrives in poor countries [08:50] 'cause then I can get the theists coming and going [08:51] Burgundavia: can you give some thought to the profiling and place a document in wiki on it and how you propose to profile? [08:52] ugh, that means I have to edit the wiki [08:52] ok, can do [08:52] cool, so at least we can know what to do when we upgrade the doc to hoary [08:57] I suggest we upgrade faq guide to hoary first I think this will close the gap to the next release [08:58] hmm [08:59] learnlinux..that is nice ive seen the site before [08:59] yes I have it at http://learnlinux.tsf.org.za [08:59] we are going to improve on it and make it Ubuntu [09:00] are we including this on breezy? [09:00] If we get it done [09:00] id like that [09:00] froud, I am actually thinking we skip right past hoary for the faqguide [09:00] stuff like these should be installled by default [09:00] froud, mine is going to be more graphically [09:00] froud, the ubuntu wayTM [09:01] It is a good task for authors who want to learn linux [09:01] Burgundavia: if you feel that is the way to go [09:01] what needs to be done in generic? [09:01] what do you mean [09:02] froud, well, the faqguide is already being done for hoary, by chen [09:02] froud, so why do a bunch of work that is already done and that I question the value of in the first place [09:02] is there a place where we have a ToDo list or who's doing stuff in our ever lovable wiki [09:02] Burgundavia: yes somewhere [09:03] https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/Profiling [09:03] Burgundavia: I dont think that there will be much diff between a faq fo rhoary and a faq for brezzy [09:04] mostly the screenshots [09:04] You think faq should have screenshots [09:04] is it not better to link to documents [09:04] i think not if it has, its a guide [09:04] I am thinking screenshots of exactly what to do [09:05] ala [09:05] click here [09:05] that brings up this [09:05] click here [09:05] type this in [09:05] can I rename Profiling to DocteamProfiling [09:05] sure [09:05] I have no emotional attachment to the name [09:06] we decided on that convention to keep our stuff out of the rest [09:06] ok [09:07] once you have an idea on which attributes we will use for what and what the profiles are, put it up there [09:07] https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamProfiling [09:08] Burgundavia: it may make the faq guide very long [09:08] Burgundavia: perhaps write a section in a doc and then using XPointer [09:08] include it to the Faq [09:08] that way it will be easier to manage the faq [09:08] userlevel is a nice attribute [09:09] as we update nodes in the documents we get updates in the faq [09:10] since I have made most docs a single xml instance it should be easier for us to manage XPointers [09:10] jsgotangco: yes, but profiling to user levels is compounded problem [09:11] the doc itself is already at a user level [09:11] good point [09:11] makeing user level inside user level is ARPITA [09:12] Burgundavia: what do you think? [09:12] I am uncertain how xpointers work [09:13] froud, take a look at the wiki page now [09:13] http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/ModularDoc.html [09:14] ahh [09:14] I see [09:14] so I can create something like: To install Example App [09:14] xinclude:Starting synatpic [09:14] then say search for Example app [09:14] xinclude:Installingfurthercrapprocess [09:14] correct? [09:15] yes XInclude the nodes you want in the faq guide so long as your xinludes and xpointers result in a valid xml doc it works [09:15] all you need is an uniq id on the node [09:16] basically achieving the same thing the faqguide does with the (adding extra repos), etc, at the beginning of his instructions [09:16] is all that stuff done on the fly? [09:16] what stuff [09:16] the xinclude, would that be pulled in by yelp as the doc is generated? [09:17] faq guide is not going into yelp [09:17] but yes the XIncludes are expanded at proc [09:18] I am building an Ubuntu Toolbar for Mozilla [09:18] most of the docs will be plain html [09:18] with css [09:18] accessed via the Ubuntu Toolbar [09:18] Only GNOME Docs are set for Yelp [09:19] generic and kde are not [09:19] KHelpcenter reads plain any HTML === froud is editing https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamProfiling [09:28] hmm so it would be much easier to do docs on kubuntu [09:28] bah [09:28] already outnumbered [09:37] Inter may be expelled from Champions League [09:37] HAR HAR HAR [09:37] Inter Milan? [09:38] yeah [09:38] there was a match [09:38] it went ugly [09:38] the people watching threw flares in the field [09:40] ok https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamProfiling update. I am now off to meetings. c ya all later [09:43] i gotta go to and do the groceries [09:43] later [10:02] morning all [10:18] salut === EricNeon [~ericneon@203.148.3.94] has joined #ubuntu-doc === froud-away [~froud@ndn-165-155-230.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === \x [~sjc@ppp102-12.lns1.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt [mpt@210-54-126-93.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:21] salut [03:22] bonsoir [03:22] bon matin [03:22] salut burgerboi [03:22] Kinnison, hey kinnison [03:22] hmm [03:22] tired [03:23] sleeeeeeeeep [03:23] Kinnison, mpt Burgundavia: Smile sweetly at a programmer or three, and ask them to implement a way to highlight actual controls in a program's window when a button is pressed in that window's help file. [03:23] Burgundavia mpt, that is a lot of programmers to smile sweetly at. My ass might get a little sore === Kinnison gets very confused [03:23] thinking of you my dear [03:24] ehh === Kinnison is still confused [03:24] nev mind [03:24] gtk 1.x apps need to die [03:25] aye [03:25] mpt, take a look at aria [03:25] what a mess [03:25] aria is a gtk 1.x app? [03:25] yep [03:25] non-higgy [03:25] very stable though [03:26] unfortuately, the fireget xpi is borked [03:26] what does it do? [03:26] download manager [03:27] http://aria.rednoah.com/ [03:28] arrr [03:28] gnome will not mount a cd as an audio cd and a data cd at the same time [03:29] Burgundavia: Would I be shot at if I admitted that the highlighting actual controls idea isn't mine, but is from a now-defunct OS? [03:30] beos or amiga? [03:30] neither [03:30] what? [03:30] Mac OS 7.5-8 (but not 9 or X) [03:30] I though those were the holy grails of usablity (sorry) [03:30] http://www.quinn.echidna.id.au/Quinn/WWW/HISubtleties/AppleGuideCoachMarks.html [03:30] hmm [03:31] nice [03:31] that could be done without modifying the app [03:31] You need to be able to open the app's menus programmatically [03:32] true [03:32] actually, what am I talking about [03:32] no you don't [03:32] what you need is a frame work [03:32] the way it worked was that it would highlight the menu, and say, e.g. "first, open the File menu" [03:32] not much of a programmer, though [03:32] then when you opened it, it would say "next, choose 'Save As...'" [03:32] etc [03:33] So yeah, you need to be able to detect when things have happened in the app [03:33] as well as just highlighting controls [03:34] mark should throw some money at it [03:34] develop a spec under the auspices of fd.o [03:34] If I showed it to him he'd say "That's such CRACK!" [03:34] mark is different [03:35] ok, I don't know that for sure [03:35] we need some good first 20 minutes help stuff [03:35] that is where most help falls down [03:35] yes [03:35] and most distros specifically [03:35] as in, first 20 minutes in Ubuntu? [03:35] yep [03:35] setting up multimedia [03:35] menus [03:35] updating system [03:36] why doesn't updating start itself automatically? [03:36] mostly I find my usablity bugs within 1 minutes of opening and using an app [03:36] mpt, it does on install [03:37] and it does the apt-get update part [03:37] it just won't install by default [03:37] ew [03:37] at least now it throws a red thing up there [03:37] oh, right [03:37] warty didn't have anything [03:37] stick a help balloon on it, or something [03:37] ugh [03:37] heh [03:38] help ballons are possibly one of the most annoying things a system can do [03:38] and they don't help [03:38] they just annoy users [03:38] Well, consider that previous versions of Windows used alerts for the same purpose [03:38] that was worse [03:39] ok, aria is kinda scary [03:39] when you run windows in a corp environment, the 1st thing it says, with a balloon, is "there are unused icons on our desktop" [03:39] mpt, fireget and gwget is coming along quite nicely from what I understand [03:39] but fireget xpi download link it borked [03:40] Burgundavia: Hey now, that's not fair, that's a good idea misused [03:40] hmm [03:40] If there are unused icons on my desktop I'll clean them up in my own good time :-) [03:40] the balloon is much overused in windows [03:40] yes [03:40] and I agree with don't install automatically [03:41] breaks the principle of not changing something without the users input [03:41] oh, true [03:41] I didn't understand what you meant [03:41] jdub (I think) pointed the other day to someone's notification system that ... [03:41] no, it was wmf [03:41] one moment [03:42] ah, no, it was a Weblog entry in one of the Weblogs that linked to mine [03:42] I'll never find it again now [03:42] a balloon one? [03:42] anyway, they'd made this notification system just for apps to make balloon-like things with [03:42] and they were stacked vertically down the side of the screen [03:42] balloon city [03:43] that was for jabber I think [03:43] http://www.kismith.co.uk/wordpress/index.php/2005/04/12/new-in-the-psi-world/ [03:43] this one? [03:45] that looks like it [03:45] what would you use it for? [03:46] but I seem to remember it wasn't being used for IM [03:46] In the screenshot I saw, it was for "download complete"-kinda things [03:46] hmm [03:46] never saw that [03:48] played with beagle at all? [03:48] no [03:48] is very nice [03:48] if very alpha === jsgotangco [DaWorm@info4-122.info.com.ph] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:50] Looks like a competitor to http://www.google.com/ [03:50] Not a competitor to Google, but to http://www.google.com/ [03:51] beagle is spotlight [03:51] bah [03:51] :) [03:52] whoa they sent room assignments already [03:52] lucky bugger [03:52] going to UDU [03:52] im with Andrew Mitchell [03:52] hehe [03:52] See, one day Google will have a Web-based calendar, and at http://www.google.com/ you'll type "meeting with Burgundavia at 3pm", and it'll add an appointment to your calendar instead of doing a Web search [03:52] mpt, check out the hula project [03:52] looks very cool [03:53] I did, a few weeks ago [03:53] to see if it could be used for Launchpad [03:53] there is hula in the hoary repos [03:54] good thing I went to Mataro. tickets to aussie start at 2,800 CAD [03:55] jeezzz [03:55] arg, I still need to get accommodation [03:56] is canonical not putting you up mpt? [03:56] oh, yeah, they are for UDU, but I'm going a couple of days early [03:57] ah [03:57] cool [03:57] 3974 for canberra [03:57] like when I went to Montreal, the time they were putting me up I was in the Ritz Carlton, and I stayed an extra couple of days in ... a youth hostel [03:58] mpt, were you at Mataro? [03:58] No, when Mataro was held, I didn't know Ubuntu existed [03:58] how did you get hired? are you a dd? [03:59] No, I meant to install Debian but never got around to it [03:59] I assume then you have experience with OSS development>? [03:59] what does it take to get hired by canonical anyway [04:00] Yeah, I contributed in various ways to Mozilla for a few years === jsgotangco grumbles at his oracle experience and now has no job === Burgundavia is also unemployed [04:00] though by choice [04:00] well [04:00] I left a windows helpdesk monkey job [04:00] thats one thing [04:01] i was handling 3 oracle servers till the company went kaput [04:01] jsgotangco: Know the right people [04:01] sell yourself well [04:02] I didn't do so well I when I first talked to mark [04:02] at least being jobless at the moment gave me a lot of opportunities with OSS [04:02] im just thinking its a good training for now [04:03] Burgundavia will the profiling be de and arch specific? [04:03] jsgotangco, that is the point [04:03] profile all our docs to be that [04:05] we should really have a meeting before UDU [04:05] we are [04:05] mpt, read the list [04:06] mpt, the doc one [04:08] when i read mpt's piece i didnt know he was canonical [04:08] until someone pointed out [04:09] I had never seen him around, so I was surprised as well [04:09] Burgundavia: I will, as soon as my e-mail is working again [04:10] i might look at my xp box and how they did their techincal documentation [04:10] maybe i can learn something from that [04:10] a lot of the kubuntu users are asking for one as well [04:11] jsgotangco: technical documentation? [04:11] jsgotangco: You mean user help, or something else? [04:11] i mean user help yes [04:12] xps help is crap [04:12] most docs in the computer world are crap [04:12] that is why oreilly makes a fortune selling good books [04:12] Burgundavia at least they are more accessible IMO [04:13] XP has search [04:14] Yes, XP's help is crap [04:14] right, but like you said before, "logical flow of information from doc to wiki" [04:14] The content is good, but the layout is terrible [04:14] I belive sean said that [04:14] It practically takes over the entire screen [04:15] xp likes to eat screen realestate [04:15] ballons, dogs, etc. [04:15] task panes [04:15] sidebars [04:15] sidebars that you cant edit by right click or drag and drop [04:15] ok ok i get your point but still if it can help, it will help [04:15] the issue is not really of writing good docs [04:15] it is of delivering them in a good way [04:16] i think we are talented enough to write good books [04:16] Books, undoubtedly [04:16] Help? possibly :-) [04:16] *grin* [04:17] what we really need to think about is, how many less words can this be said in [04:17] Yes, fewer words and fewer syllables with the same meaning [04:17] is that why you want to make your stuff visually [04:18] my stuff visually? [04:18] no, Burgundavia [04:18] oh [04:18] he was talking about an FAQ that had a lot of images and stuff [04:19] if you want to do this, click this, bla bla [04:22] http://www.wordpress.tokyotimes.org/index.php?p=510 [04:23] jeezz [04:26] ackkk acrobat 7 for linux is 37.6MB what the... [04:26] acrobat 7 also contains spyware [04:27] kpdf/evince is better [04:27] kpdf is good [04:27] i havent tried evince [04:27] they both now use the poppler backend [04:28] isnt poppler based on xpdf [04:30] oh well gotta sleep too [04:30] night! [04:30] ok === sivang [~sivang@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke catches up on the emails [05:53] hi all [05:59] salut [06:03] hi Burgundavia [06:03] nice email [06:03] which one? [06:03] devel or doc? [06:03] doc [06:03] 1. he works for canonical? that one? [06:03] yeah [06:03] i also agree [06:04] there is no need to take that blog as a personal critique of our efforts, its useful [06:04] although I only read the Help section [06:04] He sets very high standards on usablity [06:04] so do I [06:04] read the scrollback here and ubuntu-devel [06:04] high standards are essential [06:05] if we can't hit em, due to time/people limitations, then so be it, but we should set em [06:09] hmm [06:09] how far back am i going in #ubuntu-devel? [06:10] Burgundavia ross, Ubuntu doc team already maintains a complete set for main [06:10] Treenaks Burgundavia: in all languages? [06:10] the languages are todo [06:10] but then that applies to the docs as well ;) [06:11] everything is always todo [06:11] I should write a script to do it [06:12] to take screenshots, or to translate docs? [06:12] i'd like to see you write a script for either ;p [06:12] take screenshots [06:12] I need to play with imagemagick [06:12] we need to discuss the question of size tho [06:12] I think we need to shrink the size in the quickguide [06:13] Burgundavia, are we extending the topic of the meeting to more general things? if so, we can add that to the agenda [06:13] i've started gradually to take some screenshots in different languages, but it would help if things are a bit more certain about size, and maybe compression too [06:15] see the list [06:15] gottit [06:17] Burgundavia, btw [06:17] yes> [06:17] check out the gnome/images/C/aboutubuntu.png [06:17] ok [06:17] do you think for the l18n ones I should do a shot of yelp-aboutubuntu? [06:17] rather than firefox [06:17] since its in the menu [06:19] hmm [06:19] I don't completely understand [06:20] oh [06:20] well that pic is of firefox with the aboutubuntu text in [06:20] rather than yelp [06:21] we should probably use ff [06:21] as we going to be switching, hopefully, to seans xul toolbar [06:21] right [06:21] i'll wait on it [06:22] changing comps === mkde [~matt@mdke.user] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:31] hmm [06:32] did you catch the tone from seans last emails? [06:32] or am I reading him wrong? [06:32] yes [06:32] (i caught it) [06:46] afternoon everyone (or whatever time of day it is where youa re at) [06:46] hi jjesse [06:47] salut [06:47] jjesse, mpt is not as bad as that [06:48] +1 [06:48] :p === jeffsch is back (gone 21:45:54) [06:55] thats just how the tone came across i know it is hard to tell tone of voice in an email [06:57] mpt is actually quite sane [06:57] he sets very high standards [06:57] which is good [06:58] i figured, but that is how the reveiw came across to me [06:58] i enjoy ubuntu more then any distro i've ever tried and i've tried them all [06:59] did you read his 48 hours enduring mac os x [06:59] slackware, debian, suse, fedora core 1 and core 2 and several others [06:59] no i didn't [06:59] if you read the bug report about mozilla, you see that his idea got lost in infighting amongst the mozilla devs [06:59] http://www.goteborgcityairport.se/ [06:59] can anybody else get through to that? [07:00] doesn't load all the way [07:00] hmm [07:00] I get nothing [07:01] i get nothing too [07:02] anyway [07:04] what really needs to be discussed at the meeting? [07:08] the mdz list of stuff we need to have frozen with decent notive [07:08] s/notive/notice [07:09] also we can discuss general ideas about structure of docs? [07:10] as raised by the blog [07:10] but dunno if people wanna turn it into a full blown meeting [07:12] what was the link again to the meeting time ? [07:12] DocteamNextIRCMeeting [07:13] thanks === Cturtle [~Cturtle__@a213-84-50-38.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:28] hi, i see we have lots of different views [07:28] hi froud [07:29] hi mdke [07:29] you ok? [07:29] pushing deadlines al day, if my messages seem short and curt then it is cause of pressure [07:29] hope you got everything done [07:30] yep dont you just love customers that want it yesterday and tell you today [07:30] froud, ok, it just didn't seem like your usual style [07:30] i don't have any customers :) [07:30] bah [07:30] wiki is not letting me login [07:31] works here [07:31] check your email address/pass [07:32] once happened to me when i changed my email in launchpad and didn't realise it affects the whole site [07:33] it logs me in [07:33] quick sit rap are all image file refs now updated? [07:33] cool [07:33] not sure froud [07:34] I saw we now have language captures [07:34] i started some [07:34] gimme some time ;) [07:34] do the language documents point to the right files now [07:34] or still to C [07:34] i haven't edited them [07:34] but then hardly any images are done [07:35] OK [07:36] i looked at a couple of xx .xml yesterday, and they are pointing to C [07:36] dunno how we are gonna save ourselves the overhead on updating those values each time we generate a new POT [07:37] froud, i was just thinking that [07:37] there must be a cool way to do it [07:37] perhaps some sed in a script [07:37] :/ [07:37] maybe if we change them to xx now. then put sym-links to C [07:38] when the xx screen capt is ready, just overwrite the sym-link [07:38] its not that, its more the problem of how to get the links in each document to point to their own language [07:38] jeffsch: svn 1.0 does not understand symlinks [07:38] if possible automatically [07:39] we can do this when elmo updates to svn 1.1 [07:39] froud, there is no way to get links in a document to point to something specified document-wide, e.g. C, it, fr, de etc? [07:39] which btw will force all authors to update thier local subversion [07:39] yes there is [07:40] thats what we're looking for no? [07:40] I have added lang ents to global.ent [07:40] we can do fileref="../some/path/&German;/foo.png" [07:41] but will that require each po file to be edited manually for each link? [07:41] yes I am looking for a method to do &language; [07:41] what we really need is for a file reference to refer to the document language and then figure out where to get the image [07:41] froud, yeah exactly that sort of thing [07:41] that would be so cool [07:42] I need this mechanism in other places to like [07:42] yeah [07:43] started playing with it and will try to find a solution. Until then leave it as it is [07:43] ok i'm gonna make something to eat [07:43] froud, its not a problem now because most of the docs won't get translated for ages :) [07:44] sure I am just trying to work ahead as I know the problem will hit us [07:44] :) [07:44] and it forms part of the make system [07:44] bbl [07:44] Ok yes food is a good idea [07:44] if it's only filerefs that change with language, then maybe [07:45] what we need is language entity defined in the DocType Decl and all language entities take ot from there for processing [07:46] if we set @lang then all gen texts in the books are auto translated by docbook [07:46] but the &language; entity can be used in other places like the filerefs so that we cut down on our overhead [07:46] if we leave it hard coded we are bound to forget something [07:47] true. [07:52] hungry. must go. === jeffsch is away: I'll be back === maskie [~maskie@196-30-109-235.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === claude [~claude@10.231.203.62.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #ubuntu-doc === claude [~claude@10.231.203.62.cust.bluewin.ch] has left #ubuntu-doc [] === Kaya [~Kaya_@michelet-11-82-226-128-152.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:41] hello [11:42] XBGM (xbgm.sf.net), It's a very nice xbox game manager that some may consider as the Qwix [11:42] for none-MS Windows OSes. [11:42] Now, the software is under the GPL and does not contain any non-free file. You don't need anything non-free to compile and run it either But, i was wondering if the debian-legal team had anything against that [11:43] package since it implies that you have a modified xbox with an alternative OS. There's no way you can use xbgm# if you haven't modchipped or softmodded your xbox. [11:43] So... what do you think? [11:43] Is that possible to add it to Ubuntu [11:44] Kaya, you want #ubuntu-motu [11:45] ok thx === Kaya [~Kaya_@michelet-11-82-226-128-152.fbx.proxad.net] has left #ubuntu-doc []