=== dizzy [~dizzy@213.21.170.198] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dizzy [~dizzy@213.21.170.198] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [12:12] Isn't lintian in hoary? [12:13] mvirkkil: it is [12:14] odd stuff happening.. [12:14] mvirkkil: why that? [12:16] dholbach: It seems I had accidentally removed my entire package cache. [12:16] argl [12:16] cd foo [12:16] wrong window [12:16] seb128: (done for !glib) [12:17] elmo: thanks [12:17] i'm going to get my stuff together... have a nice time *wave* [12:17] ciao dholbach [12:17] bye ogra [12:18] mvirkkil: your status cache? with the information what you have installed? [12:18] dholbach, will we see you tomorrow ? [12:18] 'night guys [12:18] ogra: can't really tell [12:18] bye seb128 [12:18] night seb128 [12:18] mvo: : Luckily no. Only the cache of what is available. [12:18] seb128: see you in ffm, right? [12:18] night seb128 [12:18] seb128: frankfurt (main) :-) [12:18] mvo: apt-get update fixed it [12:18] dholbach: when ? [12:18] dholbach, so if not, have a nice time, see you in ffm [12:19] mvirkkil: heh, happens all the time to me :) [12:19] seb128: april, 16th before 23:55? [12:19] pfiou [12:19] you were speaking about tomorrow :p [12:19] seb128: when does your flight go? [12:19] 16th [12:19] but since you were speaking about tomorrow ... [12:20] What does it mean when lintian says: internal error: internal error: syntax error in @packages array: b [12:20] heh [12:20] nm, all is right :) [12:20] so you'll be in frankfurt when? [12:20] 16th evening [12:20] NOT tomorrow :p [12:20] lol [12:20] I built it with dpkg-deb --build [12:20] ah ok... so we'll be able to have a beer :-) [12:20] right [12:20] I should be here around 20 IIRC === mvo goes to sleep now === zul [~chuck@CPE0006258ec6c2-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:32] hey === mike_douglas [~mike@70.70.204.42] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:47] now really... *wave* [12:50] so only security changes are made to hoary, right? [12:50] desrt, correct [12:50] what if there's a significant crasher bug? === ironwolf [~ironwolf@c-24-6-169-124.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:53] desrt, that too (if its really significant) [12:53] but i guess we would have already heard about it [12:53] the problem with any change is that of reversions [12:54] i have an evo crasher :) [12:54] i dont [12:54] and i havent heard of any [12:54] i get 100% repeatability [12:54] https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9693 [12:54] desrt, then file it in bugzilla please [12:54] ah [12:57] the presence of the word "Windows" in the subject line, and "microsoft" in the sender... [12:57] you're wondering why its crashing? [12:58] hah [12:58] if evolution crashes by forwarding an email send by outlook, we're in trouble :) [12:58] lol [12:58] that's a fairly common use case :P [12:59] is anyone able to reproduce it? [01:00] hey === zyga reads backlog [01:01] splashy is the usplash implementation that is being blessed for hoary right? [01:01] err breezy [01:02] robertj, not yet [01:02] robertj: if it's blessed, that will be after the conference [01:02] ahh [01:04] desrt: reproducable === tritium [~mrimbert@wsip-24-249-254-44.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:04] s/reproducable/reproducible === robertj reboots to see if splashy works, hopefully I'll be back ;) === tritium [~mfrimbe@wsip-24-249-254-44.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === robertj [~robertj@66-188-77-153.cpe.ga.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:10] ooh, splashy works fine === trulux [~lorenzo@trulux.user] has joined #ubuntu-devel === camilotelles [~camilot@201009102016.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Zugot [~bryan@pcp0010860530pcs.longhl01.md.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === blueyed [~daniel@iD4CC12F7.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:31] ahh [01:31] emails [01:34] ok [01:35] i have a patch for the crasher [01:35] and it's 100% non-regression causing :) [01:36] since the only case that it makes a change to the problem is when the program would crash anyway :) === Speedy2 [~johnjacob@cpe-66-74-199-222.san.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tritium [~mfrimbe@wsip-24-249-254-44.tc.ph.cox.net] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [01:44] hi all [01:44] who knows about building linux-image? [01:44] specifically how to unpatch ubuntu source tree, apply a top level patch and then repatch? [01:45] im having troubles with linux-source-2.6.10, wont unapply patches [01:45] and also applying patches to vanilla source doesnt work [01:45] so i am kind of stuck [01:50] cartel_: Why don't you just grab a stock vanilla Linux kernel? [01:50] Which patches are you trying to apply? [01:50] Speedy2: linux-patch-ubuntu [01:50] cartel_: What does that actually give you? [01:50] Speedy2: linux-image [01:50] Which is? [01:50] ubuntu kernel [01:50] Ok [01:50] Why not just make your own kernel? [01:51] Why do you want to apply the Ubuntu patches? [01:51] i am trying to make xen-linux-images for the community [01:51] so it behaves the same [01:51] Ah [01:51] Does the linux-patch-ubuntu not give you information on patching? [01:51] you're doing linux-patch-ubuntu? [01:51] cartel_, i think fabio already has done that locally... [01:51] read the docs included in linux-patch-ubuntu [01:51] (xen) [01:51] Usually, in the Linux kernel tree, there is a text file that gives you the syntax for how to patch [01:52] they specifically tell you what you patch against..... [01:52] usually in the debian kernel tree it works [01:52] i dont see why so many deltas everywhere and workarounds [01:52] is breezy being worked on currently, or not yet? [01:53] schweeb: the only doc that comes with linux-patch-ubuntu is the changelog [01:53] tsume_, its importing packages and building them currently.... [01:54] fabbione: are you there? [01:54] cartel_: actually, it's in the package description.... [01:54] ogra: mmmm. I can't wait ;) [01:54] oh god [01:54] "They should be applied to a pristine Linux 2.6.10 kernel" [01:54] This package includes the patches used to produce the prepackaged [01:54] linux-source-2.6.10 package. They should be applied to a pristine [01:54] Linux 2.6.10 kernel. Note that these patches do NOT apply [01:54] against a pristine Linux 2.6.10 kernel but only against [01:54] linux-source-2.6.10_2.6.10.orig.tar.gz from the Ubuntu archive. [01:54] b.ambigious [01:55] ogra: are there any plans for a graphical installation like suse or redhat, do you kno? [01:55] tsume_: eventually, probably === schweeb doesn't really see much need for a graphical installer if the current one works just great [01:56] so trying to patch against linux-source-2.6.10 is impossible because it diverged too far from the vanillas [01:56] tsume_, there are plans, but nobody can tell exactly what will happen before the conference is done where all these things will be discussed [01:56] schweeb: I'm going to introduce windows people to ubuntu, a graphical installer would be nice [01:56] so i should give up [01:56] and leave it to the professionals [01:56] '' [01:56] schweeb: never say user friendly doesn't matter [01:56] tsume_: you realize Windows' installer isn't graphical, right? (or at least win2k... haven't done XP in a while) [01:56] schweeb: a graphical installer is important [01:56] schweeb: The initial installer is not [01:56] I still don't see your point [01:57] apt-get source should always get vanilla sources and a diff [01:57] something isn't un-userfriendly just because it's not graphical [01:57] cartel_, come back if fabionne is araound again (UTC+2 office hours) [01:57] schweeb: the windows 2k installer is graphical [01:57] schweeb: But Linux and Windows behave differently. Windows does not install hundreds of packages out of the gate === zul [~chuck@CPE0006258ec6c2-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:57] schweeb: it takes time and research to realise user interface matters [01:58] the textual installer I see every time I install win2k (almost daily) says differently... [01:58] tsume_: the win2k installer is not graphical [01:58] schweeb: That's just to get the core installed, the next step is graphical. [01:58] same type of blue background/text foreground as win2k... [01:58] but the bottom line is: it must be that simple that a monkey can use it [01:58] tsume_: partitionaing et al is done in textmode [01:58] schweeb: yes, but it switches to graphical later === cartel_ thinks point and drool installers unnescessary [01:59] cartel_: heh [01:59] I haven't seen a single valid reason for a graphical installer yet. [01:59] cartel_: presentation counts [01:59] schweeb: people buy eye candy ;) [01:59] schweeb: If you do a custom installation and want to select packages, a mouse interface is much nicer. [01:59] not neccesarily [02:00] schweeb: eye candy is a way of life [02:00] Speedy2, there is no reason you should be adding package during the installer [02:00] 97% of people don't do the custom installation [02:00] i find it easier and faster with a text interface [02:00] Speedy2: arrow and spacebar ;) [02:00] a graphical installer adds extra overhead [02:00] Burgundavia: Not adding, I mean selecting what you want period [02:00] schweeb: well it should be optional [02:00] Speedy2, that would be changing [02:00] Burgundavia: I don't need a hundred different programs installed that I will never use [02:00] Speedy2, that is what good defaults are for [02:01] Speedy2, or you roll a kicstart script [02:01] Speedy2: use the server install [02:01] or kickstart, like Burgundavia said [02:01] I'm not complaining about not being able to do it, I'm simply stating that having a GUI *can* make it easier. [02:01] essentially, very very few people will use the custom install [02:02] Speedy2, and I am saying that is not what the the installer is for [02:02] heh [02:02] schweeb: I don't agree. [02:02] and the few that actually WILL use the custom install are more than capable of using their keyboard to do the work [02:02] Burgundavia: Many Linux distros let you do a "custom" install where you tell it what packages you want or don't want it to install, from the start. [02:02] Speedy2, bad usablity [02:02] Speedy2: that's the anti-ubuntu [02:02] Speedy2, get the install done [02:03] then deal with the excess packages [02:03] Why? [02:03] Why not do it right from the start?> [02:03] because you add complication where there doesn't need to be any [02:03] schweeb: Yeah, it might be anti-ubuntu, but not all people who want to use ubuntu are new to Linux. [02:03] (or UNIX) [02:03] the whole point of Ubuntu is to QUICKLY and with very FEW QUESTIONS get you a FULLY functional desktop [02:03] Burgundavia: Well, it sounds like we just have to agree to disagree. [02:04] schweeb: Yes, but for those people who want more control, and know what they're doing, there should be no reason to exclude them. [02:04] After all, I'm not suggesting it's manditory. [02:04] Speedy2: so those people can use kickstart scripts [02:04] Speedy2: I disagree. [02:04] or deal with the custom installer [02:04] or type "server" to isntall the minimal server installer [02:05] or... roll their own CD [02:05] Well, the point is that you want to be able to select packages and not be forced to make your own distro. [02:05] If that's the case, then I think there are other alternatives. [02:05] okay [02:05] Speedy2, you can, it is called synaptic [02:05] you want to select your packages? [02:05] have you been listening? use the "server" install [02:06] it's minimal [02:06] schweeb: I was saying that being able to select your packages, at install time, could benefit from having a GUI, that was really the point. [02:06] then install whatever you want [02:06] Notice..."could" [02:08] the best option there would be to do a default install, then remove what they don't want using synaptic afterwards to remove what they don't want then [02:09] I see no problem with this... the whole deb archive from the CD is copied to the HD anyways, I believe, so you're not really saving any space [02:09] That's pretty interesting. [02:09] and in the long run, you've actually saved yourself some time [02:09] Is that so one can install packages w/o hitting the repository? [02:09] yep [02:10] (err repositories) [02:10] https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RWXMappings and https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RWXMappingsAMD64 [02:10] you save time by being able to have a fully functional desktop, so you can multitask while you're grooming your packages using Synaptic === chris38-home [~Christian@82.127.81.96] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:20] damn fabbione didnt put his work on people.u.o [02:20] heh [02:34] oy, breezy-changes is flooding me :) [02:35] if i didn't have gmail filtering it into it's own label i'd be freaking [02:36] it tends to do that [02:36] which is why I use gmane :) [02:39] heh [02:39] we've started a breezy? [02:40] neeewat [02:40] neeeat* [02:40] now I can be even more cutting-edge and stupid! [02:40] new libgda will uninstall all GTK# things, neat :) [02:41] and gnomedb and glade :) === mdz [~mdz@ca-studio-bsr1o-251.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:56] Does the Ubuntu / Kubuntu install CD have a module for the LSI Logic Fusion MPT (U320) SCSI card? [02:56] (my card wasn't detected when I tried to use the Kubuntu Live CD) === wasabi_ [~wasabi@207.55.180.100] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:58] Speedy2: the mptscsih module should handle it [02:58] Speedy2: if it isn't loaded automatically, try modprobing it manually. if that works, file a bug [02:59] Ok. How do I file a bug (I'll try it right now) [02:59] Err, that is I'll try the modprobe and if it works, file the bug [03:00] Got it, duh [03:00] http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/bugs [03:02] Thanks brb [03:07] infinity: ping? === Speedy2 [~johnjacob@cpe-66-74-199-222.san.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:11] mdz: Ok, the mptscsih module is not present on the Live CD. [03:12] really? [03:12] on what architecture? [03:13] i386 [03:13] Kubtunu-live CD [03:13] I am burning the Kubuntu installer and I'll see if it's there [03:14] they have identical kernels [03:14] modprobe mptscsih failed [03:14] mdz: Including the set of modules? [03:14] mdz: I checked /lib/module/2.6.10-5/kernel/drivers/scsi , no "mptscsih" [03:14] Speedy2: sudo modprobe mptscsih ? [03:14] it's in /lib/modules/2.6.10-5-386/kernel/drivers/message/fusion/mptscsih.ko [03:14] Riddell: I was at a root shell [03:14] woah [03:14] ok [03:14] hrm [03:15] Riddell: Is this on your installed setup? [03:15] yes [03:15] Can you DCC me that file? I'll try the Live CD again and check the "message" folder (but I don't recall seeing that) === Pizbit [~Pizbit@203-79-124-44.adsl.paradise.net.nz] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:16] http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/mptscsih.ko [03:16] Riddell: Thanks. Is there anything else in the "fusion" folder? [03:17] potpal:[~/cd/ubuntu] ls -l /mnt/lib/modules/2.6.10-5-386/kernel/drivers/message/fusion/mpt* [03:17] -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 49293 2005-04-05 06:40 /mnt/lib/modules/2.6.10-5-386/kernel/drivers/message/fusion/mptbase.ko [03:17] -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 28285 2005-04-05 06:40 /mnt/lib/modules/2.6.10-5-386/kernel/drivers/message/fusion/mptctl.ko [03:17] -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 18018 2005-04-05 06:40 /mnt/lib/modules/2.6.10-5-386/kernel/drivers/message/fusion/mptlan.ko [03:17] mdz: I noticed that the "sg" module was not loaded also [03:17] -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 40706 2005-04-05 06:40 /mnt/lib/modules/2.6.10-5-386/kernel/drivers/message/fusion/mptscsih.ko [03:17] that's from the Ubuntu live CD [03:17] So it's in the message folder [03:17] which also has exactly the same kernel [03:17] Ok, I missed that, my mistake. [03:17] just try modprobe, please [03:17] mdz: I did try modprobe [03:17] can you paste the output from modprobe? [03:17] I typed "modprobe mptscsih" and it said "No such module" [03:17] mdz: I'd have to reboot and try again [03:18] it did not say "No such module" [03:18] Maybe moduel not found? [03:18] module not found [03:18] if the module doesn't exist, it says "FATAL: Module not found" [03:18] perhaps it said "No such device" [03:18] No [03:18] which means that it found the module fine, but it doesn't support your hardware [03:18] No, it didn't try to load [03:18] I have a 21320U card in here, made by LSI [03:19] Let me re-burn the Live CD and see exactly what it says [03:19] Or do you want me to try it on the installer CD? [03:20] I can almost guarantee that the module is there [03:20] on the live CD [03:20] mdz: I have no reason to lie about modprobe saying it couldn't find the module. [03:21] mdz: But, I'll try again. Do you want me to try the Live CD or Installer? [03:21] in a moment, I'll have a Kubuntu live CD image [03:21] Ok [03:21] and I will look inside and verify that the module is there [03:21] Ok [03:21] if I were a betting man, I'd bet that it's there ;-) [03:21] but I will check [03:21] mdz: I didn't check the "message" folder [03:22] I only spelunked into /lib/module//kernel/drivers/scsi [03:22] you said you used modprobe [03:22] I did [03:22] modprobe sg worked [03:22] modprobe mptscsih did not [03:22] that may be so [03:22] but it is not because the module isn't there [03:22] so I would like to find out why [03:22] Umm, it should have given me some hardware failure error [03:23] If it couldn't load the module, right? [03:23] Assuming it found the module [03:23] there's no need to hypothesize if you can test it [03:23] I'd rather do that than guess [03:23] I did test it. Would you like me to test it again? [03:23] yes, please [03:23] Ok. Is there a way to capture the output and save it? [03:24] I do have an IDE HDD that it mounts and sees [03:24] Does the Live image support USB pen drives? I've got one of those too. [03:25] sue [03:25] dijkstra:[~] find /mnt/lib/modules -name '*mptscsih*' [03:25] /mnt/lib/modules/2.6.10-5-386/kernel/drivers/message/fusion/mptscsih.ko [03:25] sure* [03:25] the module is there, as expected [03:25] filename: /mnt/lib/modules/2.6.10-5-386/kernel/drivers/message/fusion/mptscsih.ko [03:25] author: LSI Logic Corporation [03:25] description: Fusion MPT SCSI Host driver [03:26] GOOOD MORNING FREEDOM LOVERS === shaya [~spotter@user-0ccembr.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:26] mdz: Ok, it's there, but I still believe that modprobe was not finding it. The Live CD installer comes up, says detecting devices, then says it can't find my CD-ROM [03:27] mdz: I then did ALT+F2 (or CTL+ALT+F2) got to the busybox shell and typed "modprobe mptscsih" [03:27] wondering why breezy is using libc6 from debian experimental, breaks the mono 1.1 debs that are being made [03:27] mdz: I'm re-burning the Live image and I'll try again [03:27] /usr/bin/cli: relocation error: /usr/bin/cli: symbol __libc_stack_end, version GLIBC_PRIVATE not defined in file ld-linux.so.2 with link time reference [03:28] mdz: If I were at the vanilla prompt, should modprobe mptscsih load it, without me having to go into that directory? [03:33] Speedy2: ok, now that you explain what you did, we're talking about two different things [03:33] you're talking about the bootstrap environment, and I'm talking about the live environment [03:33] mdz: Ok. I can't get to the live environment because it can't find my CD-ROM [03:33] shaya: it isn't. it's using glibc 2.3.5 [03:33] CD-ROM is attached to MPT [03:34] mptscsih for the bootstrap environment is in the scsi-extra-modules udeb [03:34] mdz : pong. [03:34] Umm, where is that located again? [03:34] mdz: well, better Q is, i thought ubuntu was supposed to be forked off of unstable, it's not? [03:35] Speedy2: it _ought_ to be pulled in by default. if you can see the module in /lib/modules, then it is being installed for you [03:35] if it isn't, then it's a bug [03:35] mdz: Ok. What do you want me to do to test it? [03:35] Speedy2: boot the live CD, go up to the point where you get the error, alt+f2, look in /lib/modules for the module [03:36] shaya : libc6 2.3.5 is a breezy release goal. With 6-month time-based releases, breaking things as early as possible in an effort to fix them in time is a Good Thing. :) [03:37] infinity: hello sunshine [03:37] shaya: Ubuntu is based on Debian unstable, yes. but it also contains things which are not in Debian unstable. That's sort of the point. === thom tickles infinity and daniels [03:37] daniels : Mornin' pun'kin. [03:37] ok [03:37] just wondering [03:38] shaya: mono problem is a known issue with upstream, afaik [03:38] ah, so even a recompile wont fix it? [03:39] mdz: Ok. Give me a minute, I'll return [03:39] from what I heard, it's an issue with mono using libc symbols that should have been private but weren't quite - I don't know if a recompile would fix it or not [03:39] Speedy2: thanks [03:39] mdz: NP, I'd like to help if I can. [03:40] brb [03:40] infinity: did we go over merge-o-matic? [03:41] mdz : Define "go over"... It's been explaind to me, and I've availed myself of its services, yes. :) === thom wonders if m-o-m can cope with packages being named differently between unstable and breezy [03:42] infinity: ok, just wanted to be sure you were familiar with it, so you could dive in on the merge bugs [03:43] thom : I'm curious about that myself, since I have two packages (php4 and php4-universe) that are derived from php4 in sid. [03:43] thom : WOuld be nice to get m-o-m to work its magic on both, rather than just one. [03:43] i need to rename mozilla-firefox to firefox, to comply with MoFo's licensing requirements [03:43] infinity: yeah [03:43] thom: wonder if it can sensibly merge xfree86 typo fixes to xorg [03:43] That'd be a big debdiff. [03:43] daniels: *giggle* [03:44] mdz : Yeah, let 'em rip. [03:44] infinity: they're all in bugzilla now [03:44] 269 of them [03:44] Neat. [03:45] many are trivial [03:45] many are not ;-) [03:45] Seach criteria? === stub [~stub@203-217-40-144.perm.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:47] infinity: summary "require merging" [03:48] hmm, that was funky. accidently cat'd a jpg, and it changed my terminal's $ to :) === astharot [debian-tor@9106ed18f14613d8.node.tor] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Speedy2 [~johnjacob@cpe-66-74-199-222.san.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:53] mdz: No luck. [03:54] mdz: find /lib -name 'mpt*' [03:54] mdz: returned the command prompt [03:54] Speedy2: please file a bug, package 'cdrom-detect' [03:54] mdz: Ok. === mpt [~mpt@203.86.197.132] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ikuyaLoqu [~ikuya@openblocks.good-day.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === GnuKemist [~omaciel@cpe-24-193-127-131.nj.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === GnuKemist [~omaciel@cpe-24-193-127-131.nj.res.rr.com] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] [04:04] thom : I assume it'sokay to continue calling the Mozilla Suite "mozilla", but we need to remove the 'mozilla' from firefox and thunderbird? [04:05] yep [04:06] firefox is ready to upload, gonna do t-bird this arvo [04:06] mozilla's starting to act pretty quirky lately, it's worrisome :-/ [04:06] In the course of your firefox maintenance, have you ever considered convincing the Debian maintainer to switch to a patch system? :) === ogra cries....mom decided to drop the lock window patch completely [04:07] lock window patch? [04:08] infinity: i have tried, yes. he said they used to use one but didn't like it [04:08] schweeb, my screensaver patch [04:08] infinity: http://tinyurl.com/4yeft [04:08] thom : [04:08] infinity: yes [04:08] he went on to say that the patches are kept in a private cvs repo [04:08] thom : Doesn't have to be some fancy tarball-in-tarball system.. Even something like what we use in the php4 source is nice. [04:09] infinity: yup [04:09] ogra: what'd it do? [04:10] infinity: i'm going start keeping my ubuntu patches in something like the php4 system [04:10] was it that patch that gave xss a gtk popup? [04:10] schweeb, see http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/xscreensaver/ [04:10] schweeb, gtk popup ? [04:10]