| === hypatia [~mary@CommSecureAustPtyLtd.sb1.optus.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| mdke | hi hypatia | 12:31 |
|---|---|---|
| hypatia | hi | 12:31 |
| === hypatia tries to work out everyone's real name | ||
| hypatia | So that I know you from the mailing list... | 12:32 |
| mdke | <-- matt | 12:32 |
| hypatia | yeah, your mask is helpful there :) | 12:32 |
| hypatia | as is mine | 12:32 |
| === hypatia == mary | ||
| mdke | yeep | 12:32 |
| mdke | Burgundavia = corey, froud = sean | 12:33 |
| mdke | boglot = logbot | 12:33 |
| mdke | i am happy to keep meeting short and regular | 12:33 |
| mdke | *meetings | 12:34 |
| Burgundavia | hello | 12:34 |
| hypatia | sure. | 12:34 |
| hypatia | To be fair, I haven't had a close look at the critique. | 12:34 |
| hypatia | For all I know it could be addresses fairly quickly. | 12:34 |
| hypatia | What do you think? | 12:34 |
| Burgundavia | not really | 12:34 |
| mdke | no | 12:35 |
| Burgundavia | I chatted with him on irc | 12:35 |
| hypatia | hi Burgundavia | 12:35 |
| Burgundavia | we discussed bluesky and breezy stuff | 12:35 |
| mdke | its not just him, its just that we need to sort out where we are going with the next release | 12:35 |
| Burgundavia | we have some ideas | 12:35 |
| Burgundavia | to bad most of us will miss UDU | 12:35 |
| hypatia | Well, I will be there, but only on the Monday. | 12:36 |
| hypatia | I don't want to take a week's vacation for it. | 12:36 |
| Burgundavia | well, the major thing that I have not seen mentioned outside of Sean, myself and Mark is the docbook/wiki/svn portal | 12:36 |
| hypatia | That sounds like a good idea to me. | 12:37 |
| mdke | my view is simply that it is good if someone can manage it | 12:37 |
| hypatia | But it also sounds like it would need a lot of energy to follow up, let alone to develop it. | 12:37 |
| Burgundavia | we need to flesh out a concrete set of goals | 12:37 |
| mdke | but if its unrealistic, i think we should not dream any further about it | 12:37 |
| Burgundavia | as mark mentioned that would we willing to throw some devs at it | 12:37 |
| Burgundavia | s/we/he | 12:38 |
| mdke | he mentioned it | 12:38 |
| hypatia | My partner works for Canonical. | 12:38 |
| mdke | but hasn't done it | 12:38 |
| hypatia | My impression is that their development time is kind of spoken for. | 12:38 |
| mdke | they are working hard on launchpad and stuff | 12:38 |
| hypatia | I assume there could well be a bounty kind of thing. | 12:38 |
| hypatia | And then a third party developer could work on it. | 12:39 |
| mdke | that would be cool | 12:39 |
| Burgundavia | no idea what his plans were | 12:39 |
| mdke | anyway we can discuss it, but I think that we shouldn't count on it happening soon | 12:39 |
| hypatia | Burgundavia: that is probably a good candidate for the pre-UDU meeting. | 12:39 |
| Burgundavia | hmm | 12:40 |
| Burgundavia | ok | 12:40 |
| hypatia | Burgundavia: so that someone at UDU can take it to Mark or Jane Silber or Jeff Waugh or whoever and get a firm yes or no. | 12:40 |
| Burgundavia | sounds good | 12:40 |
| hypatia | Burgundavia: but I think someone needs to spec it out really well. | 12:40 |
| hypatia | so that development time can be estimated. | 12:40 |
| mdke | mdz said he would fight our corner on the other thing, so if we give him some details on this too, perhaps he can present it | 12:40 |
| Burgundavia | I mentioned the basics on the list | 12:41 |
| mdke | or someone else | 12:41 |
| hypatia | Burgundavia: stick it on a wiki page for easy reference. | 12:41 |
| mdke | add to meeting agenda? | 12:41 |
| Burgundavia | ok, I will dig it up | 12:41 |
| hypatia | I'll ask Jeff Waugh to see if he knows what it would take to get a commitment one way or the other from Canonical on the development of an integrated tool. | 12:42 |
| hypatia | Burgundavia: yeah, stick it on a wiki page and also add it to the agenda. | 12:42 |
| mdke | perhaps the structure of docs/userbase issue can be postponed until after UDU | 12:42 |
| hypatia | mdke: Maybe it could be discussed on the mailing list for now. | 12:42 |
| mdke | ++ | 12:42 |
| hypatia | mdke: If people have a couple of weeks to chew it over, the discussion at the meeting can probably move faster. | 12:43 |
| mdke | fine yeah | 12:43 |
| mdke | hey your website is awesome | 12:44 |
| hypatia | puzzling.org ? | 12:45 |
| Burgundavia | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocTeamWebPortal | 12:45 |
| mdke | hypatia, yes | 12:46 |
| mdke | i love the names page | 12:46 |
| Burgundavia | dine | 12:46 |
| Burgundavia | done even | 12:46 |
| hypatia | mdke: It's a fun meme :) | 12:48 |
| Burgundavia | still looking for a good domainname for myself | 12:49 |
| Burgundavia | I have settled on ontapSOMETHING | 12:49 |
| Burgundavia | but I need a good word for SOMETHING | 12:49 |
| hypatia | It took me about a year to find one I liked. | 12:50 |
| Burgundavia | I tried ontapdesktop | 12:50 |
| Burgundavia | but that doesn't read right | 12:50 |
| Burgundavia | mdke, ping | 02:18 |
| hypatia | Burgundavia: so, jdub (jeff.waugh@ubuntu.com) asks for this re the wiki/docbook thing: | 03:29 |
| hypatia | email him and Cc docteam, asking for it to be raised at UDU. | 03:30 |
| hypatia | Make sure that you include links to the archive for all previous discussion, including Mark's comments. | 03:30 |
| hypatia | Because he has no idea about it, and will need some background if he's to push it up the chain. | 03:31 |
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| jsgotangco | tadaaaa | 05:36 |
| === trickie [~trickie@CPE-61-9-137-188.vic.bigpond.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| jsgotangco | hi trickie | 05:42 |
| trickie | jsgotangco, hey there! | 05:45 |
| jsgotangco | whats up? | 05:47 |
| trickie | jsgotangco, not much... at work... just though i'd pop in | 05:48 |
| trickie | jsgotangco, i haven't had much time lately to spend on #ubuntu-doc | 05:49 |
| jsgotangco | its pretty quiet here at this time.. | 05:49 |
| jsgotangco | probably in an hour or 2 froud will be awake | 05:49 |
| trickie | jsgotangco, yeah i seem to miss all the cool discussions | 05:49 |
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| jsgotangco | hmmm the guys at devel are doing sparc but its 100% unofficial | 06:17 |
| jsgotangco | lunch bbl | 06:20 |
| Burgundavia | salut toutlemonde | 06:35 |
| jsgotangco | salut | 06:36 |
| === jeffsch is back (gone 11:22:10) | ||
| jsgotangco | salut | 07:27 |
| froud | African Greetings | 07:33 |
| Burgundavia | salut | 07:34 |
| jsgotangco | hi | 07:56 |
| froud | morn | 07:56 |
| trickie | froud, i just wanted to thanks for all the work you did on the branch merge | 07:58 |
| trickie | froud, i have been quickly glancing at the commit logs and wathcing what you are doing | 07:59 |
| froud | no problem | 07:59 |
| trickie | froud, it was a good learning exp, never done a lot of branching/merging in SVN | 07:59 |
| froud | how r u | 07:59 |
| trickie | froud, yeah not bad... been pretty flat out lately... | 07:59 |
| froud | me too customers come last minute and want it now | 08:00 |
| trickie | froud, not much time to spend on the things i actually WANT to spend my time on :) | 08:00 |
| trickie | froud, always the way ;) | 08:00 |
| froud | trickie: hows you knowledge of entities in the internal subset | 08:00 |
| trickie | froud, internal subset? | 08:01 |
| froud | yeah the [ ] in the DocType Decl | 08:01 |
| froud | in libs/global.ent we have language entities | 08:01 |
| trickie | froud, ah... i sorta know how to do them... not alot though... | 08:01 |
| froud | Ok | 08:01 |
| froud | seems like there is no way I can put paramatized internal entities into the internal subset | 08:02 |
| trickie | froud, as in &name; = something | 08:03 |
| froud | %languages; | 08:05 |
| froud | seems I must do it in the dtd which means we end up with our own customlayer of the DTD | 08:06 |
| froud | Ah hA I GOT IT, I GOT IT! | 08:09 |
| froud | !!!!!!!! | 08:09 |
| froud | Yeah | 08:09 |
| froud | <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> | 08:09 |
| froud | <!DOCTYPE article PUBLIC "-//OASIS//DTD DocBook XML V4.1.2//EN" | 08:09 |
| froud | "http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.1.2/docbookx.dtd" [ | 08:09 |
| froud | <!ENTITY % globalent SYSTEM "../../../libs/global.ent"> | 08:09 |
| froud | %globalent; | 08:09 |
| froud | <!ENTITY % cdo-C SYSTEM "../../../libs/cdo-C.ent"> | 08:09 |
| froud | %cdo-C; | 08:09 |
| froud | <!ENTITY % gnome SYSTEM "../../libs/gnome.ent"> | 08:09 |
| froud | %gnome; | 08:10 |
| froud | <!ENTITY % gnome-menus-C SYSTEM "../../libs/gnome-menus-C.ent"> | 08:10 |
| froud | %gnome-menus-C; | 08:10 |
| froud | <!ENTITY % language "&EnglishAmerican;"> | 08:10 |
| froud | ] > | 08:10 |
| froud | <article id="art-about-ubuntu" status="complete" lang="%language;"> | 08:10 |
| froud | where &language now equals <!ENTITY EnglishAmerican 'en'> | 08:10 |
| froud | damn I am good :-) | 08:10 |
| froud | Oh wicked | 08:10 |
| froud | jeffsch: you there | 08:10 |
| froud | mdke: you there | 08:11 |
| jeffsch | me here | 08:11 |
| froud | found the solution | 08:11 |
| froud | the languages are defined in libs/global.ent | 08:11 |
| froud | as entities | 08:11 |
| froud | <!ENTITY Bhutani 'dz' > | 08:11 |
| froud | <!ENTITY Greek 'el' > | 08:11 |
| froud | <!ENTITY EnglishAmerican 'en'> | 08:11 |
| froud | <!ENTITY Esperanto 'eo' > | 08:11 |
| froud | <!ENTITY Spanish 'es' > | 08:11 |
| froud | by adding <!ENTITY % language "&EnglishAmerican;"> to the internal subset | 08:12 |
| froud | we can expand by internal parameter using %language; | 08:12 |
| froud | we only need to change one value in the i18n docs | 08:13 |
| froud | that in the internal subset | 08:13 |
| froud | its is not perfect but it reduces the number of changes we will need to make in i18n docs | 08:13 |
| froud | why did I not think of this before | 08:14 |
| jeffsch | so C doc will use &language; entity, and that will not change in xx doc? | 08:14 |
| jeffsch | only need to change internal subset? | 08:14 |
| froud | yep | 08:14 |
| froud | so fileref="../path/to/images/%languages;/foo.png | 08:15 |
| froud | " | 08:15 |
| froud | Oh no | 08:15 |
| froud | but en is dir C | 08:16 |
| froud | Oh but as you said we keep path path C in en docs | 08:16 |
| jsgotangco | hmm | 08:16 |
| trickie | isn't the default language often sepcified as C | 08:16 |
| jsgotangco | thats what i always thought | 08:16 |
| froud | the parameterized entity only applies to i18n docs | 08:16 |
| froud | trickie: yes, but we dont have a problem with C docs cause we generate i18n docs from them | 08:17 |
| froud | our problem was the i18n docs | 08:17 |
| trickie | froud, ok... i am not sure what you mean... i will butt out! :) | 08:18 |
| jsgotangco | is it the reason why we made i18n specific folders | 08:18 |
| froud | trickie: the problem was that the fileref@ in imagedata elements changes when you have i18n screenshots | 08:19 |
| trickie | froud, ah ok, i see | 08:19 |
| froud | the over head in managing the image refs for language change across all docs was going to be high | 08:19 |
| trickie | froud, which was something we didn't want to tackle till after Hoary... | 08:19 |
| trickie | froud, yep... cool... good solution | 08:20 |
| froud | yes, it is on my todo list | 08:20 |
| froud | Hmmm but is it.... | 08:20 |
| === froud thinking | ||
| froud | Nearly there | 08:21 |
| jsgotangco | ill go back to reading docbook because at the moment this is like esperanto to me | 08:21 |
| froud | the problem is that if we do path/to/C/foo.png in the English doc it is automatically propogated to i18n docs | 08:21 |
| froud | we need to have the %language; in the engish documents fileref | 08:22 |
| froud | this means we wil get /en/ instead of /C/ | 08:22 |
| trickie | froud, most app i have across use C instead of en | 08:23 |
| froud | Oh but that's OK I can do it recursiely via nesting | 08:23 |
| froud | yes, stupid thing | 08:23 |
| trickie | froud, <!ENTITY EnglishAmerican 'C' > | 08:23 |
| froud | but then <book lang="C"> is not good | 08:24 |
| trickie | simlink? | 08:24 |
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| froud | unless for english docs we hard code the lang@ | 08:24 |
| froud | trickie symlinks not supported in svn 1.0 | 08:25 |
| froud | need svn 1.1 | 08:25 |
| trickie | froud, ah yes... i remember that discussion | 08:25 |
| trickie | :) | 08:25 |
| froud | and I am not sure we want to hard wire it to the file system | 08:25 |
| === jeffsch [~jeffsch@fatwire-202-184.uniserve.ca] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| jeffsch | would making the entire path an entity work? | 08:26 |
| froud | I wonder what will happen if I use C in the lang@ will the stylesheets splinter | 08:26 |
| === froud thinks on jeffsch's statement | ||
| froud | It could by paths change and we would have to manage more entities, no? | 08:28 |
| froud | lemme test with lang="C" and see if the transform breaks | 08:29 |
| froud | no it works | 08:29 |
| trickie | It is not the best form, but it is common (lang=C" | 08:30 |
| trickie | ) | 08:30 |
| froud | <!-- <!ENTITY EnglishAmerican 'en'> --> | 08:30 |
| froud | <!ENTITY EnglishAmerican 'C'> | 08:30 |
| froud | so if | 08:30 |
| froud | Ok I think the xsl:template match=@lang=en is not defined or is the default so it does not look for it | 08:31 |
| froud | and since it finds no match for C it just loops over it | 08:31 |
| froud | cool, it's a hack, but hey iy works | 08:32 |
| jsgotangco | i get it now | 08:32 |
| trickie | excellent! | 08:32 |
| trickie | works is good :) | 08:33 |
| froud | committed | 08:33 |
| froud | so by adding <!ENTITY % language "&entityname;"> to the internal subset | 08:34 |
| froud | we can use lang="%language;" and for images we can use fileref="..path/to/%language;/foo.png" | 08:35 |
| froud | So when we transform to HTML docbook will autmatically pickup languages and use translated gen texts for things like captions and labels | 08:36 |
| froud | So we will have 100% translated documents | 08:36 |
| froud | and the flexability for management of images | 08:37 |
| trickie | wicked! | 08:37 |
| froud | all we must do when we create i18n XML is change the value of lang entity | 08:37 |
| jsgotangco | im not familiar on the technicalities but that is very good less work and more automation | 08:37 |
| jsgotangco | you just changed global.ent? | 08:38 |
| froud | jsgotangco: yes, and since I am very lazy I will script the part about changing the value language in i18n.sh :-) | 08:38 |
| froud | that way we need do nothing | 08:38 |
| froud | well except we need to run the script | 08:39 |
| froud | but we do that anyway to make the i18n XML file | 08:39 |
| froud | :-) | 08:39 |
| jsgotangco | you said before this would be easier when doing kubuntu docs because we dont have to rely on yelp and khtml is being used | 08:40 |
| jsgotangco | but i guess it is needed if we need uniform docs between ubuntu and kubuntu and other derivatives in the future | 08:40 |
| froud | jsgotangco: yes, and I have just commited a new gubuntu about doc with an example of usage | 08:41 |
| froud | jsgotangco: yes but we have the same problem with the i18n management | 08:41 |
| jsgotangco | ahh there | 08:41 |
| froud | so anyone working on changing fileref values, please see the gubuntu about doc for example of sample usage | 08:42 |
| froud | well time for school run. then must work, back to deadlines | 08:42 |
| trickie | later | 08:43 |
| trickie | yes i must be off also... see ya guys! | 08:43 |
| jsgotangco | there's a new entity | 08:43 |
| jsgotangco | oh ok maybe later then | 08:43 |
| froud | c ya | 08:43 |
| === trickie [~trickie@CPE-61-9-137-188.vic.bigpond.net.au] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Leaving"] | ||
| froud | jsgotangco: if you want a nice job you can add the lang attribute to the root element of each document | 08:44 |
| jsgotangco | all of them need that? | 08:44 |
| froud | and add the language entity to the internal subset of each book. It's a copy paste job | 08:44 |
| froud | wel yes | 08:44 |
| froud | but for example if you are doing a german book | 08:45 |
| froud | then you would do | 08:45 |
| jsgotangco | <!ENTITY % language "&EnglishAmerican;"> | 08:45 |
| froud | <!ENTITY % language "&German;"> | 08:45 |
| froud | jsgotangco: here is an example of German | 08:46 |
| froud | <!DOCTYPE article PUBLIC "-//OASIS//DTD DocBook XML V4.1.2//EN" | 08:46 |
| froud | "http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.1.2/docbookx.dtd" [ | 08:46 |
| froud | <!ENTITY % globalent SYSTEM "../../../libs/global.ent"> | 08:46 |
| froud | %globalent; | 08:46 |
| froud | <!ENTITY % cdo-C SYSTEM "../../../libs/cdo-C.ent"> | 08:47 |
| froud | %cdo-C; | 08:47 |
| froud | <!ENTITY % gnome SYSTEM "../../libs/gnome.ent"> | 08:47 |
| froud | %gnome; | 08:47 |
| froud | <!ENTITY % gnome-menus-C SYSTEM "../../libs/gnome-menus-C.ent"> | 08:47 |
| froud | %gnome-menus-C; | 08:47 |
| froud | <!ENTITY % language "&German;"> | 08:47 |
| froud | ] > | 08:47 |
| jsgotangco | yes | 08:47 |
| froud | <article id="art-about-ubuntu" status="complete" lang="%language;"> | 08:47 |
| froud | <title> | 08:47 |
| jsgotangco | ohh | 08:47 |
| froud | <inlinemediaobject> | 08:47 |
| froud | <imageobject> | 08:47 |
| froud | <imagedata fileref="../../images/%language;/IconUbuntu.png" format="PNG"/> | 08:47 |
| froud | </imageobject> | 08:47 |
| froud | </inlinemediaobject> | 08:47 |
| froud | </title> | 08:47 |
| froud | altough in reality the image for ubuntu in any lang is the same :-) | 08:47 |
| jsgotangco | ohhh | 08:47 |
| jsgotangco | i see 2 changes | 08:48 |
| jsgotangco | in the fileref and the language entity | 08:48 |
| jsgotangco | did i get that right | 08:48 |
| froud | Ok do svn up so you can now see the third change | 08:48 |
| froud | yes | 08:48 |
| froud | school run brb | 08:49 |
| jsgotangco | ok got this | 08:49 |
| froud | jsgotangco: back, so you understand it. Would you mind implimenting it for us. I will be in meetings for a large part of the day. | 09:13 |
| jsgotangco | i just finished it | 09:19 |
| jsgotangco | for about ubuntu | 09:19 |
| jsgotangco | froud, its done for about ubuntu | 09:20 |
| jsgotangco | committed | 09:21 |
| jsgotangco | doing quick-guides now | 09:29 |
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| jsgotangco | adminguide, quickguide, releasenotes (en and i18n), userguide committed | 09:49 |
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| jsgotangco | froud, please check when you are free | 10:04 |
| jsgotangco | froud, i took the liberty of editing everything in gubuntu | 10:04 |
| Kinnison | Morning | 10:42 |
| jsgotangco | hi! | 10:44 |
| jsgotangco | grr whats wrong with gmail | 11:21 |
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| mdke | morning | 11:28 |
| jsgotangco | mdke, hi | 11:28 |
| mdke | jsgotangco, hi | 11:29 |
| mdke | what is all this about "gubuntu" | 11:29 |
| jsgotangco | <grin> | 11:29 |
| jsgotangco | its just a docteam term | 11:29 |
| jsgotangco | come one | 11:29 |
| jsgotangco | -e | 11:29 |
| mdke | i find it confusing | 11:29 |
| mdke | at least until it is adopted by Ubuntu | 11:30 |
| jsgotangco | thats strange gmail gives me 404 | 11:30 |
| mdke | works here | 11:31 |
| jsgotangco | ill use konqueror | 11:31 |
| jsgotangco | Gmail is temporarily unavailable. Cross your fingers and try again in a few minutes. We're sorry for the inconvenience. | 11:33 |
| jsgotangco | doh | 11:33 |
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| mdke | jsgotangco, what did you edit? | 11:51 |
| === mdke scrolls up | ||
| mdke | oh cool | 11:53 |
| mdke | nice one froud_ | 11:53 |
| jsgotangco | heh | 12:00 |
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| jsgotangco | im not so sure about this but i guess its the correct way | 12:00 |
| jsgotangco | hi mpt | 12:00 |
| mpt | Greetings jsgotangco | 12:01 |
| jsgotangco | arrgghh why does konqueror always crash lately | 12:02 |
| mdke | hi mpt | 12:09 |
| mpt | hello | 12:10 |
| mdke | please to meet you, i'm matt | 12:10 |
| mpt | Matts are good | 12:16 |
| mdke | yeep | 12:17 |
| jsgotangco | bah | 12:19 |
| jsgotangco | <grin> | 12:19 |
| mdke | omg | 12:20 |
| mdke | some crazy guy just wrote this | 12:20 |
| jsgotangco | wut? | 12:20 |
| mdke | https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/StopGnomeFromRestarting | 12:20 |
| === mdke puts a fat warning on it | ||
| jsgotangco | doh | 12:20 |
| jsgotangco | we hateses our wiki more than ever | 12:21 |
| jsgotangco | oohh headers now have drop shadow | 12:21 |
| mdke | jsgotangco, i don't have my ubuntu machine on me, what runlevel is gdm in, rc2 or rcS? | 12:21 |
| mdke | can you check for me? | 12:21 |
| mdke | also gimme the filename if poss | 12:22 |
| jsgotangco | how do i do that? | 12:22 |
| mdke | ls /etc/rc2.d | 12:23 |
| mdke | ls /etc/rcS.d | 12:23 |
| mdke | or find /etc/rc* -name "*gdm*" | 12:23 |
| jsgotangco | /etc/rc0.d/K01gdm | 12:24 |
| jsgotangco | /etc/rc1.d/K01gdm | 12:24 |
| jsgotangco | /etc/rc2.d/S13gdm | 12:24 |
| jsgotangco | /etc/rc3.d/S13gdm | 12:24 |
| jsgotangco | /etc/rc4.d/S13gdm | 12:24 |
| jsgotangco | /etc/rc5.d/S13gdm | 12:24 |
| jsgotangco | /etc/rc6.d/K01gdm | 12:24 |
| mdke | thanks | 12:25 |
| === jsgotangco is not into this sort of thing | ||
| mpt | jsgotangco: Really "now have drop shadow", or just "I just started using Konqueror"? :-) | 12:27 |
| mdke | goddam | 12:29 |
| mdke | now look at https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/StopGnomeFromRestarting | 12:29 |
| mdke | why oh why doesn't the text in the box just drop to the next line instead of endlessly extending out left | 12:30 |
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| jsgotangco | that's konqueror? | 12:40 |
| === jsgotangco blushes | ||
| jsgotangco | oh my | 12:42 |
| jsgotangco | ok im going to eat first | 12:46 |
| jsgotangco | dinner time | 12:46 |
| jsgotangco | brb | 12:46 |
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| jjesse | morning | 02:29 |
| jjesse | or whatever time of day it is around you | 02:29 |
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| jsgotangco | hello world | 04:57 |
| jsgotangco | waa i said a mouthful | 05:54 |
| === froud-work [~froud@ndn-165-155-230.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
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| abelli | everybody ciao | 07:02 |
| jsgotangco | ciao? but you just arrived | 07:02 |
| abelli | justo (giusto) | 07:03 |
| abelli | correct, ciao is when you meet and when you leave someone | 07:03 |
| jsgotangco | oohh | 07:03 |
| abelli | dualism (like with Hegel) | 07:03 |
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| jsgotangco | i see | 07:04 |
| jsgotangco | ok i gotta sleep | 07:06 |
| jsgotangco | nite nite | 07:06 |
| jsgotangco | ciao! | 07:06 |
| abelli | buona notte | 07:06 |
| jsgotangco | is that italian | 07:06 |
| abelli | si | 07:07 |
| abelli | bonne nuit | 07:07 |
| jsgotangco | goodie..ill learn that one day | 07:07 |
| jsgotangco | nite | 07:07 |
| mdke | yo | 07:59 |
| mdke | hi froud | 08:00 |
| froud | hi | 08:00 |
| abelli | froud: ciao | 08:00 |
| froud | sawubona abelli | 08:00 |
| mdke | whoa that is a seriously long email | 08:01 |
| === mdke puts on his reading spectacles | ||
| froud | yeah enjoy | 08:01 |
| abelli | froud: tanta gnocca to you too | 08:02 |
| mdke | *grins* | 08:02 |
| mdke | hi abelli | 08:02 |
| mdke | froud, thats nice work :) | 08:03 |
| froud | thanks hope it clears it up. I know we discussed it on the channel but that is only a handful of people on the list | 08:04 |
| mdke | yeah | 08:04 |
| mdke | wiki page? | 08:05 |
| mdke | that is a very comprehensive email | 08:05 |
| froud | wiki, dunno | 08:05 |
| froud | maybe | 08:05 |
| froud | you thik | 08:05 |
| froud | think | 08:06 |
| mdke | its not urgent, but might be useful for translators at a later stage | 08:06 |
| froud | Perhaps forward it to translators lists | 08:06 |
| froud | I am not subscribed | 08:06 |
| mdke | well it essentially only affects the english documents because the translation will be done by pot files i guess | 08:07 |
| mdke | so i think you sent it to the right list | 08:07 |
| mdke | we will need to dig it out when converting into pot files | 08:08 |
| mdke | am i right that jsgotango has already converted the main documents in accordance with your new language entity? | 08:08 |
| froud | form the commits I see this is so :-) | 08:09 |
| mdke | awesome | 08:09 |
| froud | Having done this I realize one mor ething | 08:10 |
| froud | I need to do the same thing for menus | 08:10 |
| mdke | hmm | 08:10 |
| mdke | yeah i guess | 08:11 |
| froud | Busy now with a plan for a "Content Specification Phase" | 08:11 |
| froud | this is my thinking, tell me what you think | 08:12 |
| froud | Create wiki pages for each book | 08:12 |
| froud | Determine the goals and objectives via way of encouraging users to input what they think the book should be | 08:13 |
| froud | Perform a task analysis based on this | 08:13 |
| froud | Define a Product Description | 08:13 |
| mdke | yeah i would appreciate that | 08:13 |
| froud | with an audience profile | 08:14 |
| mdke | i find the mailing list discussion a little heavy ;) | 08:14 |
| mdke | what about meetings, you think they would be useful for that stage? | 08:14 |
| froud | Organize the publication in outline and annotate | 08:14 |
| froud | start work | 08:14 |
| mdke | sounds good | 08:14 |
| froud | meetings are wasting time IMHO | 08:15 |
| froud | I like to do | 08:15 |
| froud | I think that by providing an infrustructure to get user input now we can get things done | 08:15 |
| froud | we dont have any analysis to go on and we are pissing against the wind | 08:16 |
| mdke | yes i suppose a wiki page might attract more input than a meeting | 08:16 |
| froud | The wiki is a good vehicle to collect the thoughts of users via way of thier commnets | 08:17 |
| abelli | mdke: im happy you think so :) | 08:17 |
| abelli | froud: what are you going to do? books? | 08:17 |
| froud | abelli: until such time I have a help engine that allows be to do otherwise, yes | 08:18 |
| mdke | froud, we have to make sure users see the page tho | 08:18 |
| froud | The channels, the user lists | 08:18 |
| abelli | froud: what kind of books . | 08:18 |
| abelli | ? | 08:18 |
| mdke | froud, yes lists are good, also linking on frontpage | 08:18 |
| froud | abelli: that the users will tell us | 08:18 |
| froud | yes | 08:18 |
| abelli | froud: ... so why not a simple poll? | 08:18 |
| mdke | we will certainly need a Userguide | 08:19 |
| abelli | on ubuntulinux.org page? | 08:19 |
| froud | I am typing an email with a proposal to th elist I will send it to Mark and Company at Canonical | 08:19 |
| abelli | mdke: there are thousands of user guide (wheels) out there ... | 08:19 |
| froud | abelli: that is what we are proposing | 08:19 |
| abelli | froud: learnlinux ... huh right ... what about the bugzilla advert thing? | 08:20 |
| froud | abelli: the technicallity of how we execute it is not so important. What is important that we gather the right information by asking the right questions | 08:21 |
| froud | abelli: yeah if the systeadmin woul dget back from leave | 08:21 |
| mdke | bugzilla advert? | 08:21 |
| froud | mdke: a private joke | 08:21 |
| mdke | ah | 08:22 |
| mdke | systemadmin? | 08:22 |
| froud | th elearnLinux bigzilla keeps bugging us | 08:22 |
| mdke | ah ok | 08:22 |
| froud | and the sysadmin either is to busy or is not there or you know the story | 08:22 |
| froud | mdke: Ok I am going for a 4 phase plan then | 08:23 |
| froud | 1. Create goals and objectives for the publication | 08:23 |
| froud | 2. Analyze the Product, User Environment | 08:23 |
| froud | 3. Analyze the tasks the user wants to perform | 08:23 |
| froud | 4. Organize the documents and prepare the rational | 08:24 |
| froud | seem ok | 08:24 |
| froud | ? | 08:24 |
| mdke | yeah | 08:25 |
| froud | Ok cool | 08:25 |
| abelli | froud: well i think that right questions should be asked the right way. | 08:25 |
| abelli | so it might be important considering where and when you ask them (the story of my life). | 08:25 |
| froud | abelli: when we get to developing them you can give input | 08:25 |
| abelli | i dont think that the normal user can tell you what to do. | 08:25 |
| froud | first lets create the action stages and then do one by one, each has its challenges | 08:26 |
| froud | baby steps | 08:26 |
| froud | but i agree that the questions must be put correctly | 08:26 |
| === froud goes back to writing | ||
| abelli | froud: make me dream. | 08:27 |
| froud | of what naked girls, you're not old enough :-) | 08:28 |
| froud | sex maniac | 08:28 |
| froud | and italian to boot | 08:28 |
| froud | sex maniac on steriods | 08:28 |
| abelli | froud: ive been in france last week (my life-love's place) | 08:29 |
| abelli | im a better boy now. | 08:29 |
| froud | Oh boy dont get me started on french girls, give me italian girls anyday | 08:29 |
| abelli | froud: a poll on the telly they are the hottest in europe .. i mean italian ones. | 08:30 |
| froud | you been to CZ | 08:30 |
| froud | drop dead gorgious | 08:30 |
| abelli | froud: please ... | 08:30 |
| abelli | avoid me this kind of ... | 08:30 |
| froud | I am happy with my Romain/Hunagrian/Israeli model tough | 08:31 |
| mdke | italians are the best | 08:33 |
| mdke | but the best looking men are the english | 08:33 |
| froud | nice until 30 | 08:33 |
| froud | same for English men | 08:34 |
| mdke | lol | 08:34 |
| abelli | mdke: ok . now you can freely shut up. | 08:34 |
| mdke | we come into our own at 30 | 08:34 |
| froud | yeah beer belly and red face with white hair | 08:34 |
| froud | :-) | 08:34 |
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| froud | guess it matches the flag | 08:35 |
| abelli | froud: beer ... you're so old-fashioned .... bacardi breezer duuuude. | 08:35 |
| abelli | Cturtle_: buona sera | 08:35 |
| froud | red wine | 08:35 |
| abelli | naaaa ... | 08:35 |
| froud | good with pizza | 08:35 |
| abelli | huh btw, which one is better italian or french (cultural poll)? | 08:36 |
| froud | better with blue chese | 08:36 |
| abelli | froud: ok you're out. | 08:36 |
| === mdke strokes his beer belly and shines his red face | ||
| abelli | thank you for being here ... you can take your u're fluo cheese. | 08:36 |
| froud | lived in England for 4 years, best thing about it was Irish, the Guiness | 08:37 |
| mdke | whereabouts? | 08:37 |
| === abelli says little girls' easy-goingNESS. | ||
| froud | London, West Hampstead | 08:37 |
| abelli | mdke: brixton | 08:37 |
| mdke | nice | 08:38 |
| abelli | froud: noblesse d'oblige | 08:38 |
| froud | mdke: yep Kilburn High Road just down the hill :-) | 08:38 |
| abelli | froud: school disco? | 08:38 |
| froud | going to pub was easy | 08:38 |
| froud | getting back home was not so easy | 08:39 |
| froud | and it was uphill | 08:39 |
| froud | but a cool dip in the nood pools was always guaranteed to sober you up and cool you down | 08:39 |
| froud | nude | 08:39 |
| froud | which reminds me I must go renew my passport | 08:41 |
| froud | everytime I go to Pretoria I forget to go to the consul | 08:41 |
| abelli | pretoria? | 08:41 |
| abelli | did italian go in SA? | 08:41 |
| abelli | s | 08:42 |
| froud | http://www.pta.co.za/ | 08:42 |
| mdke | froud, do you have that link on you from that guy who wrote the guide on installing without media? | 08:43 |
| froud | yes, somewhere | 08:43 |
| abelli | i was talking about the name | 08:43 |
| froud | hey dudes you are a bad influence I must work and you keep talking | 08:44 |
| abelli | froud: where's god gone ? | 08:45 |
| abelli | lately. | 08:45 |
| froud | keep telling you he is a myth | 08:46 |
| abelli | the more i move towarrds neurosciences ... the more i love you. | 08:46 |
| froud | he exists because you do | 08:46 |
| froud | so he is like your shadow | 08:46 |
| froud | were you are he is | 08:46 |
| froud | abelli is god | 08:47 |
| abelli | froud: i knew that. | 08:47 |
| abelli | but i can tell you that different cultures give different ppl. | 08:47 |
| abelli | you're "mdke: come si dice occidentale?" | 08:48 |
| froud | people will think we are mad if we start this conversation here and I am 2 tired to rant on this today | 08:48 |
| mdke | abelli, erm... | 08:48 |
| mdke | westerner? | 08:48 |
| abelli | and this makes you think that individuality is more important than the "mdke: collettivita'" | 08:48 |
| mdke | group? | 08:48 |
| abelli | froud: this is the typical reasonment of a person that after 2 books thinks to be mastering the subject... | 08:49 |
| abelli | mdke: grazie | 08:49 |
| mdke | heh my translating is rubbish | 08:49 |
| abelli | mdke: si lo sappiamo . yes, we know. | 08:50 |
| abelli | :) | 08:50 |
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| abelli | i was looking something more noblesse_d'oblige for "collettivita'", im talking to froud ... you know. | 08:51 |
| froud | cant understand a thing you are saying, but ok, yes, yes and yes | 08:51 |
| mdke | italian lends itself to philosophy better than english | 08:52 |
| froud | oh boy why did I start | 08:52 |
| froud | somebody give abelli a pacifier | 08:52 |
| abelli | froud: can i call you "mamma"? | 08:52 |
| froud | yes my son | 08:53 |
| abelli | mmm well, what about "magister"? | 08:53 |
| froud | how to bring the temprement out of an Italian | 08:53 |
| abelli | froud: ... your work ... | 08:53 |
| froud | yes my son, it was hard work | 08:54 |
| abelli | froud: no i mean. .. you should return to your work. | 08:55 |
| froud | abelli: but you are my lifes work | 08:55 |
| abelli | mdke: define temprement how froud's used it. | 08:55 |
| abelli | froud: yeah live me stronger. | 08:55 |
| mdke | abelli, no idea ;) | 08:56 |
| froud | mdke: is playing English | 08:56 |
| abelli | the typical Londoner... | 08:56 |
| === froud has visions of Punks in Camdon | ||
| === mdke shudders | ||
| abelli | Camdon? the Mid-Land? | 08:57 |
| froud | No the market | 08:58 |
| abelli | between the Ciouty and Grinchley? | 08:58 |
| abelli | froud: ...i was Lord of The Ringing your mispelling ... sorry. | 08:58 |
| froud | not worried boy spelling now | 08:59 |
| froud | give me a break | 08:59 |
| froud | all I do all day is worry about spelling | 08:59 |
| abelli | ok, but please the bugzilla thing. | 08:59 |
| abelli | i unsubscribed from ubuntu-it for quite the same reason ... | 08:59 |
| === froud thinks, "Geeze Italians know how to nag." | ||
| abelli | are you talking about Jeez Capello... disco music hero? | 09:00 |
| mdke | i'm going to watch Friends | 09:00 |
| abelli | froud: pleading you with my eyes twice in 6 months is not nagging you ... | 09:01 |
| froud | :-) | 09:01 |
| froud | chow | 09:01 |
| abelli | ciao | 09:01 |
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| hypatia | last chance for people to let me know their availability for an IRC meeting... | 11:38 |
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