[08:47] <jsgotangco> ohh [08:47] <froud> <inlinemediaobject> [08:47] <froud> <imageobject> [08:47] <froud> <imagedata fileref="../../images/%language;/IconUbuntu.png" format="PNG"/> [08:47] <froud> </imageobject> [08:47] <froud> </inlinemediaobject> [08:47] <froud>

[08:10] where &language now equals [08:10] damn I am good :-) [08:10] Oh wicked [08:10] jeffsch: you there [08:11] mdke: you there [08:11] me here [08:11] found the solution [08:11] the languages are defined in libs/global.ent [08:11] as entities [08:11] [08:11] [08:11] [08:11] [08:11] [08:12] by adding to the internal subset [08:12] we can expand by internal parameter using %language; [08:13] we only need to change one value in the i18n docs [08:13] that in the internal subset [08:13] its is not perfect but it reduces the number of changes we will need to make in i18n docs [08:14] why did I not think of this before [08:14] so C doc will use &language; entity, and that will not change in xx doc? [08:14] only need to change internal subset? [08:14] yep [08:15] so fileref="../path/to/images/%languages;/foo.png [08:15] " [08:15] Oh no [08:16] but en is dir C [08:16] Oh but as you said we keep path path C in en docs [08:16] hmm [08:16] isn't the default language often sepcified as C [08:16] thats what i always thought [08:16] the parameterized entity only applies to i18n docs [08:17] trickie: yes, but we dont have a problem with C docs cause we generate i18n docs from them [08:17] our problem was the i18n docs [08:18] froud, ok... i am not sure what you mean... i will butt out! :) [08:18] is it the reason why we made i18n specific folders [08:19] trickie: the problem was that the fileref@ in imagedata elements changes when you have i18n screenshots [08:19] froud, ah ok, i see [08:19] the over head in managing the image refs for language change across all docs was going to be high [08:19] froud, which was something we didn't want to tackle till after Hoary... [08:20] froud, yep... cool... good solution [08:20] yes, it is on my todo list [08:20] Hmmm but is it.... === froud thinking [08:21] Nearly there [08:21] ill go back to reading docbook because at the moment this is like esperanto to me [08:21] the problem is that if we do path/to/C/foo.png in the English doc it is automatically propogated to i18n docs [08:22] we need to have the %language; in the engish documents fileref [08:22] this means we wil get /en/ instead of /C/ [08:23] froud, most app i have across use C instead of en [08:23] Oh but that's OK I can do it recursiely via nesting [08:23] yes, stupid thing [08:23] froud, [08:24] but then is not good [08:24] simlink? === Cturtle [~Cturtle__@a213-84-50-38.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:24] unless for english docs we hard code the lang@ [08:25] trickie symlinks not supported in svn 1.0 [08:25] need svn 1.1 [08:25] froud, ah yes... i remember that discussion [08:25] :) [08:25] and I am not sure we want to hard wire it to the file system === jeffsch [~jeffsch@fatwire-202-184.uniserve.ca] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:26] would making the entire path an entity work? [08:26] I wonder what will happen if I use C in the lang@ will the stylesheets splinter === froud thinks on jeffsch's statement [08:28] It could by paths change and we would have to manage more entities, no? [08:29] lemme test with lang="C" and see if the transform breaks [08:29] no it works [08:30] It is not the best form, but it is common (lang=C" [08:30] ) [08:30] [08:30] [08:30] so if [08:31] Ok I think the xsl:template match=@lang=en is not defined or is the default so it does not look for it [08:31] and since it finds no match for C it just loops over it [08:32] cool, it's a hack, but hey iy works [08:32] i get it now [08:32] excellent! [08:33] works is good :) [08:33] committed [08:34] so by adding to the internal subset [08:35] we can use lang="%language;" and for images we can use fileref="..path/to/%language;/foo.png" [08:36] So when we transform to HTML docbook will autmatically pickup languages and use translated gen texts for things like captions and labels [08:36] So we will have 100% translated documents [08:37] and the flexability for management of images [08:37] wicked! [08:37] all we must do when we create i18n XML is change the value of lang entity [08:37] im not familiar on the technicalities but that is very good less work and more automation [08:38] you just changed global.ent? [08:38] jsgotangco: yes, and since I am very lazy I will script the part about changing the value language in i18n.sh :-) [08:38] that way we need do nothing [08:39] well except we need to run the script [08:39] but we do that anyway to make the i18n XML file [08:39] :-) [08:40] you said before this would be easier when doing kubuntu docs because we dont have to rely on yelp and khtml is being used [08:40] but i guess it is needed if we need uniform docs between ubuntu and kubuntu and other derivatives in the future [08:41] jsgotangco: yes, and I have just commited a new gubuntu about doc with an example of usage [08:41] jsgotangco: yes but we have the same problem with the i18n management [08:41] ahh there [08:42] so anyone working on changing fileref values, please see the gubuntu about doc for example of sample usage [08:42] well time for school run. then must work, back to deadlines [08:43] later [08:43] yes i must be off also... see ya guys! [08:43] there's a new entity [08:43] oh ok maybe later then [08:43] c ya === trickie [~trickie@CPE-61-9-137-188.vic.bigpond.net.au] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Leaving"] [08:44] jsgotangco: if you want a nice job you can add the lang attribute to the root element of each document [08:44] all of them need that? [08:44] and add the language entity to the internal subset of each book. It's a copy paste job [08:44] wel yes [08:45] but for example if you are doing a german book [08:45] then you would do [08:45] [08:45] [08:46] jsgotangco: here is an example of German [08:46] "http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.1.2/docbookx.dtd" [ [08:46] [08:46] %globalent; [08:47] [08:47] %cdo-C; [08:47] [08:47] %gnome; [08:47] [08:47] %gnome-menus-C; [08:47] [08:47] ] > [08:47] yes [08:47]

[08:47] [08:47] <jsgotangco> ohh [08:47] <froud> <inlinemediaobject> [08:47] <froud> <imageobject> [08:47] <froud> <imagedata fileref="../../images/%language;/IconUbuntu.png" format="PNG"/> [08:47] <froud> </imageobject> [08:47] <froud> </inlinemediaobject> [08:47] <froud> [08:47] altough in reality the image for ubuntu in any lang is the same :-) [08:47] ohhh [08:48] i see 2 changes [08:48] in the fileref and the language entity [08:48] did i get that right [08:48] Ok do svn up so you can now see the third change [08:48] yes [08:49] school run brb [08:49] ok got this [09:13] jsgotangco: back, so you understand it. Would you mind implimenting it for us. I will be in meetings for a large part of the day. [09:19] i just finished it [09:19] for about ubuntu [09:20] froud, its done for about ubuntu [09:21] committed [09:29] doing quick-guides now === jeffsch [~jeffsch@fatwire-202-184.uniserve.ca] has left #ubuntu-doc ["sleepy] [09:49] adminguide, quickguide, releasenotes (en and i18n), userguide committed === hypatia [~mary@adsl-66-203.swiftdsl.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:04] froud, please check when you are free [10:04] froud, i took the liberty of editing everything in gubuntu [10:42] Morning [10:44] hi! [11:21] grr whats wrong with gmail === froud_ [~froud@ndn-165-155-230.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:28] morning [11:28] mdke, hi [11:29] jsgotangco, hi [11:29] what is all this about "gubuntu" [11:29] [11:29] its just a docteam term [11:29] come one [11:29] -e [11:29] i find it confusing [11:30] at least until it is adopted by Ubuntu [11:30] thats strange gmail gives me 404 [11:31] works here [11:31] ill use konqueror [11:33] Gmail is temporarily unavailable. Cross your fingers and try again in a few minutes. We're sorry for the inconvenience. [11:33] doh === maskie [~maskie@196-30-109-2.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === matt_ [~matt@81-178-113-113.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === sivang [~sivang@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:51] jsgotangco, what did you edit? === mdke scrolls up [11:53] oh cool [11:53] nice one froud_ [12:00] heh === mpt [mpt@210-54-127-16.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:00] im not so sure about this but i guess its the correct way [12:00] hi mpt [12:01] Greetings jsgotangco [12:02] arrgghh why does konqueror always crash lately [12:09] hi mpt [12:10] hello [12:10] please to meet you, i'm matt [12:16] Matts are good [12:17] yeep [12:19] bah [12:19] [12:20] omg [12:20] some crazy guy just wrote this [12:20] wut? [12:20] https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/StopGnomeFromRestarting === mdke puts a fat warning on it [12:20] doh [12:21] we hateses our wiki more than ever [12:21] oohh headers now have drop shadow [12:21] jsgotangco, i don't have my ubuntu machine on me, what runlevel is gdm in, rc2 or rcS? [12:21] can you check for me? [12:22] also gimme the filename if poss [12:22] how do i do that? [12:23] ls /etc/rc2.d [12:23] ls /etc/rcS.d [12:23] or find /etc/rc* -name "*gdm*" [12:24] /etc/rc0.d/K01gdm [12:24] /etc/rc1.d/K01gdm [12:24] /etc/rc2.d/S13gdm [12:24] /etc/rc3.d/S13gdm [12:24] /etc/rc4.d/S13gdm [12:24] /etc/rc5.d/S13gdm [12:24] /etc/rc6.d/K01gdm [12:25] thanks === jsgotangco is not into this sort of thing [12:27] jsgotangco: Really "now have drop shadow", or just "I just started using Konqueror"? :-) [12:29] goddam [12:29] now look at https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/StopGnomeFromRestarting [12:30] why oh why doesn't the text in the box just drop to the next line instead of endlessly extending out left === Cturtle [~Cturtle__@a213-84-50-38.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:40] that's konqueror? === jsgotangco blushes [12:42] oh my [12:46] ok im going to eat first [12:46] dinner time [12:46] brb === jjesse [~jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:29] morning [02:29] or whatever time of day it is around you === Cturtle [~Cturtle__@a213-84-50-38.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [DaWorm@ipdial-246-142.info.com.ph] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:57] hello world [05:54] waa i said a mouthful === froud-work [~froud@ndn-165-155-230.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === boglot [~logbot@gw.workaround.org] has joined #ubuntu-doc === abelli [~john@2349f961dddc244b.node.tor] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:02] everybody ciao [07:02] ciao? but you just arrived [07:03] justo (giusto) [07:03] correct, ciao is when you meet and when you leave someone [07:03] oohh [07:03] dualism (like with Hegel) === maskie [~maskie@196-30-109-199.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:04] i see [07:06] ok i gotta sleep [07:06] nite nite [07:06] ciao! [07:06] buona notte [07:06] is that italian [07:07] si [07:07] bonne nuit [07:07] goodie..ill learn that one day [07:07] nite [07:59] yo [08:00] hi froud [08:00] hi [08:00] froud: ciao [08:00] sawubona abelli [08:01] whoa that is a seriously long email === mdke puts on his reading spectacles [08:01] yeah enjoy [08:02] froud: tanta gnocca to you too [08:02] *grins* [08:02] hi abelli [08:03] froud, thats nice work :) [08:04] thanks hope it clears it up. I know we discussed it on the channel but that is only a handful of people on the list [08:04] yeah [08:05] wiki page? [08:05] that is a very comprehensive email [08:05] wiki, dunno [08:05] maybe [08:05] you thik [08:06] think [08:06] its not urgent, but might be useful for translators at a later stage [08:06] Perhaps forward it to translators lists [08:06] I am not subscribed [08:07] well it essentially only affects the english documents because the translation will be done by pot files i guess [08:07] so i think you sent it to the right list [08:08] we will need to dig it out when converting into pot files [08:08] am i right that jsgotango has already converted the main documents in accordance with your new language entity? [08:09] form the commits I see this is so :-) [08:09] awesome [08:10] Having done this I realize one mor ething [08:10] I need to do the same thing for menus [08:10] hmm [08:11] yeah i guess [08:11] Busy now with a plan for a "Content Specification Phase" [08:12] this is my thinking, tell me what you think [08:12] Create wiki pages for each book [08:13] Determine the goals and objectives via way of encouraging users to input what they think the book should be [08:13] Perform a task analysis based on this [08:13] Define a Product Description [08:13] yeah i would appreciate that [08:14] with an audience profile [08:14] i find the mailing list discussion a little heavy ;) [08:14] what about meetings, you think they would be useful for that stage? [08:14] Organize the publication in outline and annotate [08:14] start work [08:14] sounds good [08:15] meetings are wasting time IMHO [08:15] I like to do [08:15] I think that by providing an infrustructure to get user input now we can get things done [08:16] we dont have any analysis to go on and we are pissing against the wind [08:16] yes i suppose a wiki page might attract more input than a meeting [08:17] The wiki is a good vehicle to collect the thoughts of users via way of thier commnets [08:17] mdke: im happy you think so :) [08:17] froud: what are you going to do? books? [08:18] abelli: until such time I have a help engine that allows be to do otherwise, yes [08:18] froud, we have to make sure users see the page tho [08:18] The channels, the user lists [08:18] froud: what kind of books . [08:18] ? [08:18] froud, yes lists are good, also linking on frontpage [08:18] abelli: that the users will tell us [08:18] yes [08:18] froud: ... so why not a simple poll? [08:19] we will certainly need a Userguide [08:19] on ubuntulinux.org page? [08:19] I am typing an email with a proposal to th elist I will send it to Mark and Company at Canonical [08:19] mdke: there are thousands of user guide (wheels) out there ... [08:19] abelli: that is what we are proposing [08:20] froud: learnlinux ... huh right ... what about the bugzilla advert thing? [08:21] abelli: the technicallity of how we execute it is not so important. What is important that we gather the right information by asking the right questions [08:21] abelli: yeah if the systeadmin woul dget back from leave [08:21] bugzilla advert? [08:21] mdke: a private joke [08:22] ah [08:22] systemadmin? [08:22] th elearnLinux bigzilla keeps bugging us [08:22] ah ok [08:22] and the sysadmin either is to busy or is not there or you know the story [08:23] mdke: Ok I am going for a 4 phase plan then [08:23] 1. Create goals and objectives for the publication [08:23] 2. Analyze the Product, User Environment [08:23] 3. Analyze the tasks the user wants to perform [08:24] 4. Organize the documents and prepare the rational [08:24] seem ok [08:24] ? [08:25] yeah [08:25] Ok cool [08:25] froud: well i think that right questions should be asked the right way. [08:25] so it might be important considering where and when you ask them (the story of my life). [08:25] abelli: when we get to developing them you can give input [08:25] i dont think that the normal user can tell you what to do. [08:26] first lets create the action stages and then do one by one, each has its challenges [08:26] baby steps [08:26] but i agree that the questions must be put correctly === froud goes back to writing [08:27] froud: make me dream. [08:28] of what naked girls, you're not old enough :-) [08:28] sex maniac [08:28] and italian to boot [08:28] sex maniac on steriods [08:29] froud: ive been in france last week (my life-love's place) [08:29] im a better boy now. [08:29] Oh boy dont get me started on french girls, give me italian girls anyday [08:30] froud: a poll on the telly they are the hottest in europe .. i mean italian ones. [08:30] you been to CZ [08:30] drop dead gorgious [08:30] froud: please ... [08:30] avoid me this kind of ... [08:31] I am happy with my Romain/Hunagrian/Israeli model tough [08:33] italians are the best [08:33] but the best looking men are the english [08:33] nice until 30 [08:34] same for English men [08:34] lol [08:34] mdke: ok . now you can freely shut up. [08:34] we come into our own at 30 [08:34] yeah beer belly and red face with white hair [08:34] :-) === Cturtle_ [~Cturtle__@a213-84-50-38.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:35] guess it matches the flag [08:35] froud: beer ... you're so old-fashioned .... bacardi breezer duuuude. [08:35] Cturtle_: buona sera [08:35] red wine [08:35] naaaa ... [08:35] good with pizza [08:36] huh btw, which one is better italian or french (cultural poll)? [08:36] better with blue chese [08:36] froud: ok you're out. === mdke strokes his beer belly and shines his red face [08:36] thank you for being here ... you can take your u're fluo cheese. [08:37] lived in England for 4 years, best thing about it was Irish, the Guiness [08:37] whereabouts? === abelli says little girls' easy-goingNESS. [08:37] London, West Hampstead [08:37] mdke: brixton [08:38] nice [08:38] froud: noblesse d'oblige [08:38] mdke: yep Kilburn High Road just down the hill :-) [08:38] froud: school disco? [08:38] going to pub was easy [08:39] getting back home was not so easy [08:39] and it was uphill [08:39] but a cool dip in the nood pools was always guaranteed to sober you up and cool you down [08:39] nude [08:41] which reminds me I must go renew my passport [08:41] everytime I go to Pretoria I forget to go to the consul [08:41] pretoria? [08:41] did italian go in SA? [08:42] s [08:42] http://www.pta.co.za/ [08:43] froud, do you have that link on you from that guy who wrote the guide on installing without media? [08:43] yes, somewhere [08:43] i was talking about the name [08:44] hey dudes you are a bad influence I must work and you keep talking [08:45] froud: where's god gone ? [08:45] lately. [08:46] keep telling you he is a myth [08:46] the more i move towarrds neurosciences ... the more i love you. [08:46] he exists because you do [08:46] so he is like your shadow [08:46] were you are he is [08:47] abelli is god [08:47] froud: i knew that. [08:47] but i can tell you that different cultures give different ppl. [08:48] you're "mdke: come si dice occidentale?" [08:48] people will think we are mad if we start this conversation here and I am 2 tired to rant on this today [08:48] abelli, erm... [08:48] westerner? [08:48] and this makes you think that individuality is more important than the "mdke: collettivita'" [08:48] group? [08:49] froud: this is the typical reasonment of a person that after 2 books thinks to be mastering the subject... [08:49] mdke: grazie [08:49] heh my translating is rubbish [08:50]