[12:01] <cartel_> hppa is the superdome architecture isnt it?
[12:02] <T-None> among other things
[12:02] <cartel_> wildcat?
[12:32] <zul> hey
[12:56] <cartel_> im having troubles unpatching the kernel-source
[12:56] <zul> unpatching? like how
[12:56] <cartel_> patches are silent
[12:57] <cartel_> untar linux-source-2.6.10 and run unpatch/debian, it thinks it is not a debian kernel tree..
[12:57] <zul> cartel_: is there a debian directory?
[12:57] <cartel_> yes
[12:58] <zul> cartel_,: do this fakeroot debian/rules unpack in the main kernel directory if you want to unpack it and patch it
[12:58] <cartel_> i want to apply a top level patch before the debian patches
[12:59] <zul> which version -33?
[12:59] <cartel_> 2.6.10-34
[01:00] <zul> then you have to make the patch into a dpatch and stick the name of the patch in debian/patches/00List-34
[01:00] <cartel_> no way
[01:01] <cartel_> dpatch???
[01:01] <zul> yes way
[01:01] <zul> yep
[01:01] <cartel_> you mean so it appears in /usr/src/kernel-patches ?
[01:01] <zul> look at one of the patches in debian/patches for an example
[01:01] <cartel_> ive already done that
[01:02] <cartel_> now for some reason linux-source-2.6.10 has all the patches applied but is missing debian/ folder
[01:02] <zul> apt-get source linux-source-2.6.10 right?
[01:03] <cartel_> yea
[01:03] <cartel_> no, apt-get source linux-image-2.6.10-5-k7
[01:03] <cartel_> which gets linux-source-2.6.10
[01:03] <zul> then there suppose to be a debian directory in linux-source-2.6.10 directory correct?
[01:03] <cartel_> but its bung
[01:03] <cartel_> yeah
[01:03] <zul> and in the directory there is a debian directory correct with the rules file and stuff
[01:04] <cartel_> nope
[01:04] <zul> do apt-get source linux-source-2.6.10 and there should be one in there
[01:04] <cartel_> debian/ not there
[01:05] <cartel_> ok, now i have debian/
[01:05] <zul> hold on a sec
[01:05] <cartel_> # /usr/src/linux-patches/i386/2.6.10/unpatch/debian
[01:05] <cartel_> No version.Debian file, assuming pristine Linux 2.6.10
[01:06] <cartel_> bung
[01:07] <cartel_> what should version.Debian be?
[01:07] <zul> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/KernelBuildpackageDetailedHowto/
[01:07] <cartel_> why change name from kernel-source to linux-source? seems pointless
[01:08] <zul> that is the way its done
[01:08] <cartel_> what package is dch in?
[01:08] <cartel_> whats the point?
[01:09] <cartel_> its a stream edit on the debian rules... why??
[01:09] <cartel_> these instructions afre for warty
[01:09] <zul> because the rules file reads the changelog file
[01:09] <cartel_> do i still need restricted?
[01:09] <zul> they are still valid for hoary just change the version numbers
[01:09] <zul> you shouldnt
[01:09] <cartel_> where is dch?
[01:10] <zul> cartel_, check #ubuntu
[01:10] <zul> or do an apt-get search
[01:10] <cartel_> apt-cache search
[01:14] <cartel_> how do i know a file is an dpatch as opposed to a normal patch?
[01:15] <zul> because its has a @DPATCH@ in it
[01:16] <cartel_> well i hate to dissapoint but not even the kernel-patch has that
[01:16] <zul> you didnt read the wiki did you?
[01:16] <cartel_> so this doc is worthless because kernel maintainers dont follow their own guidelines
[01:17] <zul> cartel_ this isnt a support channel try #ubuntu 
[01:17] <cartel_> im trying to build a xen-linux-image-2.6.10 for the community
[01:18] <zul> good luck..
[01:18] <cartel_> im not looking for support im looking for the maintainers not a noob wiki page
[01:18] <zul> you might want to talk to to schweeb in #ubuntu-motu
[01:18] <cartel_> i dont understand why so many deltas from debian policy
[01:18] <cartel_> and why kernel-source-2.6.10 is so cornholed
[01:18] <cartel_> ok thx
[01:21] <cartel_> it just makes things real confusing
[01:30] <T-None> i'm just hopping by, but are you trying to *unpatch* a freshly unpacked kernel source tree?
[02:27] <lamont> moo
[02:28] <zul> hey lamont 
[02:28] <zul> how goes it?
[02:28] <lamont> zul: taxingly
[02:28] <zul> heh..i already did mine
[02:29] <lamont> zul: finally got the last of the info I need this morning.
[02:29] <zul> cool..so you werent slacking ;)
[02:30] <lamont> well, stalling, yes.  slacking, no.
[02:30] <lamont> anyway,  not paying too much attention over here for the next while...
[02:31] <zul> okie dokie
[02:55] <zul> im taking a break
[02:55] <zul> bbl
[04:46] <zul> heh...how much are you going to be owing?
[04:48] <lamont> zul: other way around.  been waiting for her to give me info... we get a pretty nice chunk back
[04:48] <zul> cool.
[05:12] <zul> later...
[06:04] <fabbione> morning
[11:21] <T-None> moo-rning
[11:21] <fabbione> hey T
[11:24] <T-Bone> fabbione: you're on the Debian apache team, or am I confused with some other Italian guy?
[11:24] <fabbione> that would be me.. yes
[11:24] <T-Bone> ok
[11:24] <T-Bone> quick offtopic question if you don't mind then :)
[11:24] <fabbione> go ahead
[11:26] <T-Bone> i just received a wishlist bugreport for an apache module i both write and maintain. That's a pretty indexing module, so to speak, and it uses some icons/css to format the output. When i packaged the module, i put these files into /var/www/modulename, because i thought this was the correct policy. The user wants them in /usr/share/modulename. Who's right? :)
[11:27] <fabbione> the user
[11:27] <fabbione> you have no rights to write in /var/www/
[11:27] <fabbione> + if you write stuff in there, you need to treat them as config files
[11:28] <T-Bone> grumble
[11:29] <T-Bone> that module has been in for about 2 years now, and I wonder whether it'd be a good thing to break it before sarge release :P
[11:29] <T-Bone> i suppose i'll change that post-sarge then
[11:30] <fabbione> T-Bone: that could be considered RC bug
[11:30] <fabbione> since /var/www contains user data
[11:30] <T-Bone> no
[11:30] <T-Bone> err
[11:30] <fabbione> and you can mangle them just adding your stuff
[11:30] <T-Bone> ah
[11:30] <T-Bone> hmm
[11:31] <T-Bone> shit
[11:31] <T-Bone> how comes this passed NEW :P
[11:31] <Mithrandir> add a symlink on upgrades
[11:31] <Mithrandir> (if the directory exists)
[11:31] <Mithrandir> (and remove it in postrm, if you added it on upgrade)
[11:31] <T-Bone> err
[11:31] <fabbione> hmmm
[11:32] <fabbione> i don't think that would work.. what if i have my own /var/www/$foo/$bar.html
[11:32] <fabbione> later i install T-crap module
[11:32] <fabbione> and he moves stuff around with a symlink killing my bar.html?
[11:32] <fabbione> i would lart T-crap to death
[11:32] <T-Bone> sigh
[11:33] <fabbione> he will need to check the contents of what he created
[11:33] <fabbione> as i said.. treat them as config files
[11:33] <fabbione> for new install move them to /usr/share
[11:33] <fabbione> for upgrades.. you are doomed
[11:33] <T-Bone> :(
[11:34] <Mithrandir> either NEWS.Debian or debconf note (preferably the former) to tell the user the files have moved.
[11:34] <fabbione> T-Bone: that's a really bad situation.. or rather technically interesting to handle properly
[11:34] <T-Bone> what if i detect the existence of /var/www/foo, and prompts the user an alert?
[11:35] <fabbione> T-Bone: seems the right thing to do
[11:36] <fabbione> but also add a very detailed README on how to do the right thing
[11:36] <T-Bone> hmmm
[11:36] <T-Bone> lemme think
[11:37] <T-Bone> what if i detect /var/www/foo and then 1) not install /usr/share/foo, 2) move /var/www/foo to /usr/share/foo ?
[11:37] <T-Bone> (hoping it's possible to do that)
[11:37] <fabbione> npe
[11:37] <fabbione> that won't work
[11:37] <T-Bone> why?
[11:37] <fabbione> if you detect /var/www/foo you warn that stuff has moved to /usr/share/foo
[11:38] <fabbione> do you create /var/www/foo dinamycally?
[11:38] <fabbione> or is it shipped in the package?
[11:38] <T-Bone> well actually one of the reasons why it has been placed in /var/www/foo was that the user was supposedly empowered to add his own CSS files
[11:38] <T-Bone> shipped
[11:39] <fabbione> well you will have to ship it somewhere.. and that somwehre has to be /usr/share
[11:39] <fabbione> the problem is that upgrading, dpkg will remove uncoditionally what is in /var/www/foo
[11:39] <T-Bone> and what about the user that wants to add his own cruft? He should put it in /usr/share/foo?
[11:40] <T-Bone> ugh
[11:40] <fabbione> T-Bone: no, you need to suggest somewhere to copy or symlink
[11:40] <T-Bone> my oh my
[11:40] <T-Bone> why make things simple when we can complicate them to death, heh? :P
[11:40] <fabbione> T-Bone: YOU ASKED FOR IT: BECAUSE YOU ARE FRENCH!
[11:40] <T-Bone> hmm
[11:41] <T-Bone> btw, why would dpkg remove inconditionally. When it finds foreign files in a location, it lets the directory in place, unless you --purge
[11:41] <T-Bone> iirc
[11:41] <fabbione> yes.. the foreign files...
[11:42] <fabbione> what about files you ship that have been customized?
[11:42] <T-Bone> the user shouldn't do that :)
[11:42] <T-Bone> it's explicitely detailed in docs
[11:42] <fabbione> the user can do whatever he wants with his data
[11:42] <fabbione> and /var/www is data
[11:42] <T-Bone> sigh
[11:43] <fabbione> RC bug
[11:43] <fabbione> user will break you if you touch his data
[11:43] <T-Bone> that's why i won't change it before sarge
[11:44] <T-Bone> considering the limited audience (according to popcon) of the module, the fact that it's a 0.xx (deemed beta in the docs) version, well
[11:44] <fabbione> T-Bone: do something sane...
[11:45] <fabbione> port it to apache2
[11:45] <T-Bone> it is
[11:45] <fabbione> and drop the a1.3 package
[11:45] <fabbione> :)
[11:45] <T-Bone> there are both
[11:45] <T-Bone> and i don't see how that fix my problem
[11:45] <fabbione> oh god
[11:45] <T-Bone> (both built out of same source, btw)
[11:45] <fabbione> well i though perhaps you were not insane enough to mangle a2 as well
[11:45] <T-Bone> the idea is that both package share the same common files
[11:46] <T-Bone> the user moving from apache1.3 to apache2 has nothing to do (almost)
[11:47] <T-Bone> i hate murphy's law
[11:49] <fabbione> T-Bone: BECAUSE YOU ARE FRENCH! <- /me repeats
[11:49] <T-Bone> fabbione: and btw, *NEVER* underestimate my insanity
[11:49] <T-Bone> this is not helping, you italian punk
[11:49] <T-Bone> :P
[02:11] <T-Gone> mjg59: sorry for the lag in replying. Forgot to mention again i'm not subscribed to d-project :)
[02:51] <zul> hola
[02:55] <jbailey> Heya Chuck
[02:56] <jbailey> lamont: ping?
[02:58] <fabbione> hi zul
[02:59] <zul> hey fabbione 
[03:28] <zul> die!
[04:45] <zul> cool..speakers has been announced for OLS http://www.linuxsymposium.org/2005/speakers.php?types=TALK
[04:47] <dilinger> do they stream that?
[04:48] <kyle_> no, but the audio is recorded.
[04:51] <zul> or you could just go to ottawa like everyone else
[04:51] <zul> you bum :)
[04:52] <kyle_> indeed.
[04:53] <dilinger> hehe
[04:53] <dilinger> yea, i'm thinking about it
[04:53] <zul> cool...then we can go party
[04:54] <kyle_> word
[04:54] <zul> of course if im working and if i have money 
[04:56] <dilinger> yea, hopefully i'll know whether i'll be living in colorado or nyc soon
[04:56] <dilinger> since if i'm in nyc, going to OLS is not a problem..
[04:56] <zul> nyc is a bit more closer 
[04:57] <zul> hey fabbione 
[04:57] <fabbione> zul: time to merge from your branch...
[04:57] <zul> go ahead..
[04:57] <kyle_> morning fabbione
[04:57] <fabbione> zul: can i lart you a bit first?
[04:58] <zul> no you cant
[04:58] <zul> :)
[04:58] <fabbione> hey kyle_ .. it's late afternoon.. but goodmorning to you to
[04:58] <zul> fabbione: er i mean go right ahead
[04:58] <kyle_> gah, why have i got a tail.
[04:59] <fabbione> zul: is your archive online?
[04:59] <zul> yep
[04:59] <fabbione> oh i see.. just slow to death
[04:59] <zul> yeah
[04:59] <fabbione> did you compile the new patches?
[04:59] <fabbione> or are they totally untested?
[04:59] <zul> no i havent had a chance yet
[04:59] <kylem> wow. git could really use a friendlier interface.
[05:00] <fabbione> i haven't touched it yet
[05:01] <zul> me either
[05:01] <zul> fabbione: so let me have it
[05:01] <fabbione> zul: please test that at least the patches build
[05:02] <fabbione> than i will merge
[05:02] <fabbione> also.. it is a good idea for you to merge regularly from pre1
[05:02] <fabbione> so that there are not too many differences in the archive when we push/pull stuff
[05:03] <zul> fabbione: i usually do test the patches i just havent had time to
[05:05] <zul> today at least
[05:07] <zul> thats weird /bin/sh: line 0: [: /usr/src/kernel-patches/i386: binary operator expected
[05:08] <fabbione> what did you break?
[05:08] <zul> nothing as far as i know...its breezy though
[05:08] <fabbione> probably bash is borked
[05:08] <zul> probably
[05:10] <fabbione> what operation did you try?
[05:10] <zul> dpkg-buildpackage
[05:13] <fabbione> try fakeroot make -f debian/rules build
[05:13] <zul> ok ill try that
[05:13] <zul> need to fix a typo first
[05:14] <fabbione> works here.. but i didn't update since this morning
[05:14] <zul> i updated about an hour ago
[05:35] <zul> building away...build bluild build
[05:46] <zul> bbl...lunch
[07:13] <zul> brb
[07:41] <fabbione> zul: did it build?
[08:01] <fabbione> zul: did it build?
[08:01] <zul> its still building
[08:07] <zul> fabbione: do you want me to take care of unionfs later as well?
[08:08] <fabbione> zul: i would like to merge from you first
[08:08] <fabbione> than we can take a look :)
[08:08] <zul> ij
[08:08] <zul> doh..ok
[08:08] <zul> gah...im getting autoconf.h errors now
[08:08] <zul> include/linux/autoconf.h:1419:19: warning: ISO C requires whitespace after the macro name
[08:09] <fabbione> are you building with gcc-4?
[08:09] <zul> nope its gcc-3.3
[08:09] <zul> as in the makefile
[08:09] <fabbione> it builded here without any problem
[08:10] <zul> i did an update this morning maybe something went foobared with kernel-headers
[08:10] <zul> jbailey: ping
[08:10] <fabbione> the kernel doesn't use kernel-headers to build
[08:10] <zul> okie dokie :)
[08:10] <zul> then maybe its me
[08:10] <jbailey> zul: 'sup?
[08:10] <zul> jbailey: unping :)
[08:11] <zul> sorry
[08:11] <zul> i sucketh this week
[08:13] <zul> more so than usual
[08:13] <jbailey> That's okay.  People pay lots of money fo...  err..  
[08:13] <jbailey> NM
[08:13] <zul> oh i know
[08:25] <fabbione> AOE is broken with devfs
[08:25] <fabbione> we need to kill DEVFS!
[08:25] <fabbione> anyway
[08:25] <fabbione> dinner time
[08:59] <zul> problems?
[09:04] <fabbione> zul: yes.. it's crap :)
[09:05] <Mithrandir> pft
[09:05] <Mithrandir> do we have some CotD packages of 2.6.12?
[09:06] <zul> dilinger: heh...read your blog
[09:06] <zul> "Sometimes when I'm alone, I google myself."
[09:06] <fabbione> ahha
[09:07] <fabbione> actually it would be very simple to fix aoe to support devfs
[09:07] <fabbione> but do we care?
[09:07] <zul> what the hell is aoe?
[09:07] <kylem> ata over ethernet
[09:07] <fabbione> ATA over Ethernet
[09:07] <Mithrandir> we should be able to turn off devfs now, I'd imagine
[09:07] <kylem> aka: puke
[09:07] <zul> ah..
[09:07] <fabbione> kylem: well it's mainline.. so it can't be THAT bad
[09:08] <kylem> lots of things are mainline and fucking digusting. :)
[09:08] <fabbione> Mithrandir: yeah.. i think d-i is no devfs safe
[09:08] <kylem> look in drivers/net someday :)
[09:08] <fabbione> kylem: well i am checking AOE and GNDB atm
[09:08] <Mithrandir> fabbione: d-i uses udev in devfs mode.
[09:08] <zul> well turn if off and if people complain ;)
[09:08] <fabbione> kylem: i did :(
[09:08] <fabbione> zul: devfs is used only by the installer right now
[09:09] <fabbione> so i think we could disable it and let Kamion deal with it :P
[09:09] <fabbione> you know.. ain't my problem...
[09:09] <fabbione> we did NOTTING
[09:09] <kylem> fabbione, my sympathies ;_)
[09:09] <fabbione> right?
[09:09] <zul> i say go for it
[09:10] <fabbione> i want to talk with Kamion first
[09:10] <fabbione> at least warn him
[09:10] <zul> ...but im not kamion
[09:10] <fabbione> and since he just left for LCA
[09:10] <zul> oh yeah...udu is coming up pretty quickly
[09:11] <fabbione> i am going to test both solutions...
[09:11] <fabbione> without devfs and fixing aoe :)
[09:11] <fabbione> i love challenges :)
[09:12] <Mithrandir> fabbione: you are insane :)
[09:13] <fabbione> Mithrandir: yes i know!
[09:13] <fabbione> Mithrandir: fixing aoe means adding 4 lines of code in the right place, one of which is an include
[09:13] <fabbione> one a simple definition
[09:14] <fabbione> and 2 to notify devfs of device add/remove
[09:14] <fabbione> removing the config means changing 1 line in approx 12 files...
[09:14] <fabbione> theroretically fixing aoe is less intrusive :P
[09:16] <Mithrandir> fabbione: ok, cool enough.
[09:18] <zul> crap it doesnt build
[09:24] <zul> grrr..
[09:31] <fabbione> zul: error?
[09:31] <zul> yeah...ill fix it
[09:31] <fabbione> zul: just tell me the error :)
[09:31] <zul> missing a header file
[09:34] <fabbione> uhuh
[09:34] <fabbione> booting with no devfs spits out a bunch of errors
[09:45] <fabbione> hmmmm
[09:47] <zul> crap i need to head home
[09:48] <zul> ill have this fixed when i get home tonight
[09:48] <zul> later
[09:49] <zul> fabbione: ill send you an email when its fixed
[09:55] <fabbione> this starts to be interesting :)
[10:39] <jbailey> fabbione: This -> NULLPOINTER Exception.  Clarify and resubmit?
[10:39] <fabbione> jbailey: uh?
[10:39] <jbailey> fabbione: *exactly*
[10:40] <fabbione> jbailey: what that come from?
 this starts to be interesting :)
[10:40] <jbailey> I'm wondering what you're talking about.
[10:40] <fabbione> AHHHH
[10:40] <fabbione> the AOE driver :)
[10:41] <fabbione> either the vserver is broken or the driver is :)
[10:41] <fabbione> becuase they talk to eachother at init time
[10:41] <fabbione> but they stop there
[10:41] <fabbione> and it looks to me that the kernel driver doesn't tell the kernel properly that there is a new device
[10:42] <jbailey> What's AOE?
[10:44] <fabbione> Ata over Ethernet
[10:45] <jbailey> Oh creepy.
[10:49] <fabbione> yeah
[10:49] <fabbione> but i was curious to see how it works
[10:49] <fabbione> the client/server setup is very simple
[10:49] <fabbione> that's why
[10:49] <fabbione> you run a daemon with 2 options
[10:49] <fabbione> and modprobe on the client
[10:49] <kylem> it's probably better than NFS, heh.
[10:50] <fabbione> zack you share a block device
[10:50] <fabbione> kylem: that's for sure
[10:50] <fabbione> now i am testing gndb
[10:50] <fabbione> but it's giving the creep to compile the userland
[11:18] <Mithrandir> hm
[11:18] <Mithrandir> why does a build of linux-source-2.6.10-37 fail with :
[11:18] <Mithrandir> drivers/acpi/ec.c: In function 'acpi_ec_gpe_query':
[11:18] <Mithrandir> drivers/acpi/ec.c:519: error: label at end of compound statement
[11:18] <Mithrandir> m?
[11:22] <fabbione> gcc-4
[11:23] <Mithrandir> hoooray!
[11:23] <Mithrandir> *sigh*
[11:38] <lamont> jbailey: ack
[11:39] <jbailey> lamont: Do you have a view of the build database that can show which packages failed that show up as uploaded fine in Debian?
[11:39] <jbailey> lamont: I'm interested in seeing which packages FTBFS based on toolchain changes, and that seems a likely way of seeing them.
[11:39] <lamont> http://people.ubuntu.com/buildLogs/Lists/ has a few files in it...
[11:40] <lamont> breezy.failed.$arch is probably what you're after
[11:40] <lamont> of course, that says nothing about how they do in debian/
[11:40] <jbailey> Yeah, but it might give a start.
[11:40] <jbailey> Should that be ~lamont ?
[11:41] <jbailey> Yup
[11:41] <lamont> doh
[11:41] <lamont> yeah - ~lamont/buildLogs
[11:41] <lamont> my b ad
[11:42] <jbailey> Is "not ours" the same as quinn-diff's not-for-us ?
[11:44] <lamont> jbailey: kinda...
[11:45] <lamont> instead of using --not-for-us, I use --failed -m 'not ours'
[11:46] <jbailey> So these show no FTBFSs? =)
[11:46] <jbailey> Makes me feel very good about the toolchain update. =)