[12:01] <_Uzul_> the -s option is for a dry run
[12:02] <sobersabre> i am on sarge now. any reasons to upgrade ?
[12:02] <ricka> Uzul, thanks, I'd just checked the man pages also for that :D
[12:03] <_Uzul_> normaly an "upgrade" does the job. a "dist-upgrade" is only needed when upgrading a package would mean to install new packages or to deinstall packages
[12:03] <ricka> ok
[12:03] <abarbaccia> if i have ubuntu installed can i just apt-get install kde-desktop ?
[12:03] <_Uzul_> so it's a security thing... :)
[12:03] <kubuntero> a deb file for qt designer  ?
[12:04] <_Uzul_> and in distros like normal debian unstable it's a very good thing :)
[12:04] <ricka> and if I have kubuntu installed, can I just install gnome (apt-get install gnome)?
[12:05] <_Uzul_> there are meta-packages for both... i don't know the right names ...
[12:05] <kubuntero> qt desginer 
[12:05] <kubuntero> designer 
[12:05] <kubuntero> ..
[12:05] <kubuntero> how to install
[12:05] <ricka> where could one find these 'metanames'?
[12:05] <ricka> on the pages of whatever I want to install
[12:05] <ricka> or is there a list somewhere?
[12:06] <_Uzul_> kubuntero: apt-get install qt-designer
[12:06] <kubuntero> _Uzul_
[12:06] <_Uzul_> you could search it with: apt-cache search kde desktop
[12:06] <SuperCatFrog> abarbaccia - kubuntu-desktop or something like that
[12:06] <kubuntero> qt -designer not found
[12:07] <_Uzul_> ah sorry, its at3-designer
[12:07] <_Uzul_> qt3-designer
[12:08] <_Uzul_> i love apt... 
[12:08] <_Uzul_> really neat
[12:08] <kubuntero> yea
[12:08] <cure> could someone tell me how could i get konqueror plugins in firefox , ist this possible ?
[12:09] <sorin> hi
[12:09] <sorin> I'm trying to install some packages, but it is asking for the CD labeled 
[12:09] <_Uzul_> which konqueror plugins?
[12:09] <sorin> Kubuntu 5.04 _Hoary Hedgehog_ - Release i386 (20050407)
[12:09] <cure> _Uzul_: web plugins flash, kaffeine ..etc
[12:10] <sorin> But the cd is labeled "Kubuntu 5.04 i386".
[12:10] <sorin> How do I fix this?
[12:10] <_Uzul_> apt-get install mozilla-kaffeine
[12:10] <narg> err... put in the cd you have?
[12:10] <narg> does that not work sorin?
[12:11] <sorin> this is what i'm saying
[12:11] <sorin> it does not
[12:11] <_Uzul_> + the flash plugin can be downloaded within firefox when you enter a site with flash technology
[12:11] <sorin> it wants that specific label
[12:11] <sorin> which is weird since that is the cd it was installed from
[12:11] <narg> Interesting. If the problem keeps up, comment out the cd in /etc/apt/sources.list
[12:12] <narg> you'll have to download all the packages then, but at least it works.
[12:12] <kubuntero> uzul
[12:12] <kubuntero> qt3 dont show in menu
[12:12] <cure> _Uzul_: thx man :-)
[12:13] <_Uzul_> no problem, all for the community ;))
[12:13] <cure> _Uzul_: yep
[12:13] <kubuntero> _Uzul_
[12:14] <narg> Heh, when did the auto flash install with ff get imped? I noticed that a week or so ago when I used a flash site.
[12:14] <_Uzul_> kubuntero: try finding the binary in the console...
[12:14] <kubuntero> how.
[12:14] <_Uzul_> $ which <BINARYNAME>
[12:15] <_Uzul_> i dont now the exact name of the qt3-designer binary
[12:15] <smouche> sorin, I had exactly the same problem a couple installs ago; drove me crazy -- sorry I don't have a solution for you!
[12:16] <smouche> except, sorin, other tan what narg said --
[12:16] <_Uzul_> narg: dont now. but i noticed it already some time ago
[12:17] <cure> hmm Konqueror is little bit faster then firefox 
[12:17] <narg> nod.
[12:17] <kubuntero> uzul
[12:17] <smouche> narg, sorin, what if one just changed the name of the cd in /etc/apt/sources.list to the name that install is asking for?
[12:17] <kubuntero> qt3
[12:17] <kubuntero> not show
[12:17] <kubuntero> :(
[12:17] <narg> I dislike konqs UI.
[12:17] <_Uzul_> kubuntu: try 
[12:17] <narg> smouche: Good idea. Cds bother me, so I commented it out, but its good for dialup.
[12:17] <_Uzul_> $ dpkg -L qt3-designer
[12:18] <_Uzul_> and check all the paths for something that looks like the binary
[12:18] <smouche> I prefer firefox in general, but one little detail I prefer in konq -- I like to click in the tab bar space to open new tabs...
[12:18] <narg> Get an extension for that smouche.
[12:18] <smouche> firefox really crowds the close button eventually, makes it annoying
[12:18] <kubuntero> /usr/share/qt3
[12:18] <narg> I've seen like 3 on offical list.
[12:19] <cure> kde is much faster then gnome here ...
[12:19] <smouche> but konqueror always allows room for easy clicking in that space to the left of the close button
[12:19] <_Uzul_> kubuntero: no, more something like /usr/bin/qt3xxx
[12:19] <narg> Yea, I have to agree, the tab bleed/overflow with lots of tabs is painful.
[12:19] <smouche> narg -- don't need an extension -- that' s default in firefox now, but not as well implemented as in konq -- 
[12:19] <_Uzul_> or /usr/local/bin/qt3xx
[12:19] <smouche> but like I said, very minor thing
[12:20] <narg> nod
[12:20] <kubuntero> /usr/bin/designer-qt3
[12:20] <kubuntero> ??
[12:20] <narg> I just wish firefox wasnt entangled with Gtk+.
[12:20] <_Uzul_> sounds right.
[12:20] <_Uzul_> just execute that on console
[12:20] <cure> its synaptic so ugly by you too ?
[12:21] <_Uzul_> if qt-designer pops up you got the right one
[12:21] <smouche> firefox loads painfully slowly; I know there's something in about:config to speed that up, but I forgot what...
[12:21] <narg> cure: You asking me?
[12:21] <cure> narg: all of you 
[12:21] <narg> I did a prelink, and it load faster than konq now :p
[12:21] <_Uzul_> smouche: you can play around with prelink
[12:21] <narg> Well, I wouldn't say ugly, but gtk+ and qt dont mix well.
[12:22] <smouche> that's it!  thanks _Uzul_ ...
[12:22] <narg> One or other are nice, but both is nasty at times.
[12:22] <cure> yes but firefox -->gtk app look nice with kde
[12:22] <cure> nicer the by gnome :-)
[12:23] <_Uzul_> only thing about prelinking is that you have to keep it up to date.
[12:23] <smouche> firefox looks great on my kubuntu...
[12:23] <_Uzul_> otherwise the system will go slower as ever before ;)
[12:23] <thoreauputic> firefox has plenty of themes/skins - some of them are quite KDE-friendly
[12:23] <smouche> opera's fast, but ugly on kde...
[12:24] <smouche> fonts look awful in opera for some reason..
[12:24] <_Uzul_> kubuntero: got it?
[12:24] <thoreauputic> smouche: which is funny since it uses QT :)
[12:24] <cure> one more question how do i make the apps on my panel transparency?
[12:25] <kubuntero> no
[12:25] <kubuntero> :(
[12:25] <cure> so its only show the names of apps
[12:25] <_Uzul_> wait..
[12:26] <smouche> cure, I hope someone has an idea for that, 'cause I'd like to do that too  -- I don't know if it's possible to suppress the icons and replace with text in the panels...
[12:26] <narg> I believe you can in the kicker prefs. It would be name only or somesuch.
[12:27] <smouche> what I'd really like to have is transparent panel-hiding buttons...
[12:27] <kkathman> hey smouche :) Wassup ma man?
[12:27] <narg> panel-hiding buttons?
[12:27] <smouche> maybe narg-- but I thinks that may only be for desktop names-- I'll look
[12:27] <cure> i saw thin on a screenshot so it must be possible
[12:27] <smouche> hey brother kkathman!
[12:27] <kubuntero> like beginning qt3 -  designer?
[12:27] <kkathman> gettin ready for a big computer weekend here :)
[12:28] <narg> Heh, I cant wait till I get my new graphics card. My integrated crap one is so slow with transparency.
[12:28] <_Uzul_> kubuntero: sorry, no clue, cant install it on this machine...
[12:29] <_Uzul_> ok: to issues from me... on this machine the nvidia driver issnt workig
[12:29] <_Uzul_> and i made the root-account available, also in KDE but i cant authenticate as root in kde 
[12:30] <narg> hrm... did kubuntu-desktop metadependancies change in breezy? I dist-upgraded, and it decided to install OO.o :p
[12:30] <smouche> me too kkathman -- if my firm resolve holds , er, firm... ;-)
[12:30] <_Uzul_> isn't OOo in the kubuntu-desktop anyway?
[12:31] <narg> Hrm, didnt autoinstall before.
[12:31] <_Uzul_> hoary got it on CD ...
[12:31] <_Uzul_> and installed it
[12:32] <_Uzul_> but i'm more intrested in openoffice.org2 ... but the damn packages have gone...
[12:32] <smouche> kkathman, I may start out by printing out reams of transcripts of your configuration conversations on here!  Trial and error -- more of your trials, fewer of my errors...
[12:32] <kkathman> smouche: Well im going to pull one of the hard drives out of my wife's computer (its a 120GB drive) which will leave her with a 40gb. Im going to put that in my main Linux box, and remove the 40 gb thats there and move that to another computer I have...a P3-450 Dell. Then install Linux on that Dell
[12:32] <_Uzul_> ah.. theyre back again..
[12:33] <smouche> tolerant better half you got there, kkathman!
[12:33] <smouche> she approves your plan, I presume!
[12:33] <kkathman> smouche: She hardly needs 160GB on that computer...that was my old box I had. She justs uses that one to pay bills and surf the internet :)
[12:33] <kkathman> 40GB is probably over kill :)
[12:35] <smouche> I know what you mean.  Me, I'm a hard drive obsessive - compulsive...
[12:35] <kkathman> Ive never "decommissioned" a drive in Windows before tho..so I will have to feel my way through it
[12:35] <_Uzul_> softRAID with ubuntu?
[12:36] <kkathman> I think all I have to do is just make sure that there isnt anything installed on it..then just remove it and reboot
[12:36] <kubuntero> uzul
[12:36] <kubuntero> thanks
[12:36] <kubuntero> man
[12:36] <kubuntero> qt3 workink now
[12:36] <_Uzul_> ah, ok.. so youre lucky ;)
[12:36] <gdh> _Uzul_: I used Debian but the same tools are available in Ubu
[12:37] <_Uzul_> now you have to put it into the menu... :)
[12:37] <_Uzul_> i never had the time to take the risk .. :)
[12:37] <_Uzul_> but will try it sometime on setting up ubuntu
[12:38] <gdh> _Uzul_: I confess I bought an extra 200G disk so I could have a 'real' single-disk backup of all my data in case I managed to destroy the RAID :)
[12:38] <gdh> nicely everything worked exactly as planned
[12:39] <_Uzul_> good to hear
[12:39] <_Uzul_> so my data will be safe :)
[12:39] <kkathman> _Uzul_: You dont like working the trapeeze without a net eh?
[12:39] <gdh> the process for using mkraid to add a new disk to an existing setup is utterly terrifying :)
[12:40] <_Uzul_> so you did it after installing?
[12:40] <_Uzul_> i thought about using the setup option
[12:40] <gdh> _Uzul_: Of course. I'm not doing RAID1 on bootup or any crap like that.
[12:40] <gdh> I'lll just 'dd' my rootfs every night - it changes so little it's barely worth a live RAID1
[12:41] <gdh> smouche: I canunderstand. the RAID HOWTO tells you to use 'mkraid -R' meaning 'Really Force' and it gives you a terror-inducig message 'CONTENTS OF /DEV/MD0 WILL BE DESTROYED IN FIVE SECONDS!!!!!'
[12:42] <_Uzul_> anybody got a hint on intresting VoIP-packages?
[12:42] <gdh> smouche: But in fact as long as you have the source disk listed first in /etc/raidtab
[12:42] <gdh> smouche: then it will actually use that disk as the source to mirror to other drives in the array.
[12:42] <gdh> smouche: open source at its finest :|||||
[12:43] <gdh> you can see why I wanted a real normal ext3 disk to have a copy of data on.
[12:43] <smouche> gdh, not for the faint of heart.  I drink too much red bull and smoke too many cigs for that stuff!
[12:43] <RickA> does anyone here use an ATI card with Ubuntu?
[12:43] <gdh> Feh :)
[12:44] <_Uzul_> jup, got one in my laptop
[12:44] <_Uzul_> R200 i think
[12:44] <RickA> hmm, not sure if that will help
[12:44] <RickA> I just tried to install them
[12:44] <RickA> now I can't get into Xorg anymore
[12:44] <RickA> x800xt
[12:45] <_Uzul_> hum... on the laptop it worked smoothly
[12:45] <_Uzul_> maybe you have to comment out some settings in xorg.conf?
[12:46] <smouche> RickA-- I have ati aiw on my other box; it works basically, but I haven't tried anything like 3d with it, so I don't know how good it really is...
[12:46] <_Uzul_> nvidia needs some of these extras...
[12:46] <RickA> I have no idea which settings
[12:46] <SuperCatFrog> hello - back
[12:46] <RickA> I've replace 'ati' with fglrx, but apart from that
[12:46] <RickA> smouche: too bad, I really need the 3d
[12:47] <_Uzul_> i just heard many times about problems with fglrx...
[12:47] <SuperCatFrog> ricka - load "glx"
[12:47] <smouche> I'm not saying it doesn't work, RickA -- I just haven't tried it yet
[12:47] <SuperCatFrog> also load "dir"
[12:47] <RickA> can I somehow uninstall the drivers
[12:47] <SuperCatFrog> *dri
[12:47] <SuperCatFrog> also, use glxgears to test 3d (opengl)
[12:47] <RickA> supercatfrog: that's assuming the drivers are already doing 2d isn't it?
[12:48] <RickA> yeah, I used that, and ran glxinfo to see what vendor string it returns
[12:48] <RickA> if correctly returned ATI as vendor, but performance was terrible
[12:48] <RickA> *it
[12:48] <_Uzul_> ricka: you just have to put in ati in instead of fgrlx in xorg.conf
[12:48] <RickA> hmm, ok
[12:48] <RickA> I'll give that a go
[12:48] <RickA> be right back
[12:48] <_Uzul_> then it uses the standard ati driver...
[12:49] <RickA> k
[12:49] <RickA> brb
[12:49] <smouche> kkathman, on the drive you're installing in your linux box-- are you gonna give it all to kubuntu, or leave partitions for other os's?
[12:50] <_Uzul_> brb
[12:52] <ricka> well, that worked
[12:52] <ricka> back in kubuntu now
[12:52] <ricka> now what to try to get the driver working
[12:52] <ricka> any ideas?
[12:53] <ricka> supercatfrog: you mentioned load: glx i believe?
[12:53] <ricka> would that help with 2d?
[12:53] <KaiL_> anybody tried to use kmplot?
[12:54] <KaiL_> I'd say, there's something wrong :)
[12:54] <SuperCatFrog> ricka - no, i dont think so. i didn't read your question - what was being said looked like what i said, needed to be said
[12:55] <ricka> ah
[12:56] <SuperCatFrog> did you understand what i just said? i read it back and didn't actually understand it myself (fortunately i knew what i meant)
[12:56] <smouche> you said it
[12:57] <smouche> oops
[12:57] <smouche> heh, SuperCatFrog, I wanted to thank you for the tip you gave me the other day
[12:57] <smouche> about keyboard shortcuts for volume control -- excellent!
[12:58] <smouche> damn fine jukebox I got here now
[12:58] <SuperCatFrog> smouche - s'ok
[12:59] <SuperCatFrog> does anybody know where i can get a .deb (or point to a repo) for kdebindings-3.4? ive googled, ive tried to compile (failed, parse error), ive harrassed everybody on irc, ive googled, etc
[01:00] <SuperCatFrog> smouche - which media player do you use?
[01:01] <KaiL_> SuperCatFrog: not in universe?
[01:01] <SuperCatFrog> kail_ - nope, not as far as i can tell (or multiverse)
[01:01] <SuperCatFrog> or breezy's multi/universe
[01:01] <KaiL_> multiverse is non-free
[01:02] <KaiL_> so it shouldn't be there
[01:02] <boots> hi. maybe not the right place to ask but... under KDE, how do I get gnome/gtk apps to observe my gnome themes instead of using the standard GTK ugliness? Under Gnome, KDE apps look like KDE apps and I want the same for my Gnome apps under KDE.
[01:02] <smouche> SuperCatFrog, I like beep
[01:02] <SuperCatFrog> o rite, so whats restricted then?
[01:02] <KaiL_> restricted is "nonfree kernel modules"
[01:02] <insanekane> boots: gtk-qt-engine
[01:02] <SuperCatFrog> smouche - beep? *ganders*
[01:02] <smouche> but I like kaffeine too - unfortunately, kaffeine is over-stimulating, shall we say, to my cpu
[01:02] <boots> insanekane: thanks, I will try it out
[01:02] <kkathman> kaffeine is like majorly buggy I think
[01:02] <KaiL_> seperated, because you might even need them, if you can avoid nonfree apps...
[01:03] <insanekane> kkathman: kaffeine works very well for me
[01:03] <SuperCatFrog> i think there's something wrong with my apt-get - lots of stuff seems to be missing, such as gtk-qt-engine
[01:03] <smouche> beep-media-player  -- gotta get a new skin for it though, it's got this ugly ipodish thing happening...
[01:03] <SuperCatFrog> and probably kdebindings
[01:03] <KaiL_> SuperCatFrog: apt-get update?
[01:03] <kkathman> insanekane: well, ok, try stopping it, and then check your CPU
[01:03] <smouche> heh heh, good point kkathman...
[01:03] <insanekane> kkathman: havent looked at CPU levels
[01:03] <KaiL_> gtk-qt is "gtk2-engine-gtk-qt" afair
[01:04] <narg> SuperCat: Check sources.list? :)
[01:04] <SuperCatFrog> kail_ - i had a bad line in sources.list actually
[01:04] <insanekane> KaiL_: u mean "engines"
[01:04] <kkathman> insanekane: yep, once you run it, and stop it...it doesnt stop..and pegs the CPU
[01:04] <insanekane> kkathman: yeah ur right .. i have noticed that
[01:04] <KaiL_> insanekane: ah ok
[01:04] <KaiL_> close :)
[01:04] <kkathman> yeah you have to kill the process :)
[01:04] <insanekane> KaiL_: :)
[01:04] <boots> yeah, gtk2-eninges-gtk-qt -- but that's not exactly what I meant...
[01:05] <smouche> kkathman - mplayer in firefox did the same thing to me, even worse! when I played that file from your site last night
[01:05] <smouche> I couldn't kill it at all!
[01:05] <kkathman> amarok does NOT do that tho
[01:05] <boots> I want my gnome apps to observe gnome themes under KDE just like KDE apps observe KDE themes under gnome
[01:05] <kkathman> at least on my system it doesnt
[01:05] <insanekane> boots: oh right ... that doesnt exist atm
[01:06] <smouche> i gotta figure out this mplayer problem, otherwise I can't listen to stuff with it before going to bed... ;-)
[01:06] <boots> insanekane: fair enough, thanks. I will use the gtk/qt cloaking, I suppose
[01:06] <KaiL_> imho gtkqt looks really good
[01:06] <SuperCatFrog> should i have hoary and breezy in the same sources.list file?
[01:06] <insanekane> KaiL_: yes !!! it does !!!
[01:06] <boots> KaiL_: I just want an app to always look the same no matter where it is run
[01:07] <KaiL_> esp as it ships with a tool, which also syncs font settings
[01:07] <kkathman> SuperCatFrog: I wouldnt think so..unles you are particularly fastidious about watching versions of things
[01:07] <KaiL_> so the kde theme settings are valid for ALL apps
[01:07] <smouche> boots, I'm with you on that...
[01:08] <smouche> I don't need everything to look monolithically themed
[01:08] <KaiL_> now an icon theme for firefox would close the last hole
[01:08] <smouche> (as long as the fonts don't get wrecked that is)
[01:08] <boots> KaiL_: but when switching desktops, a Gnome app should still look like a Gnome app as far as I'm concerned. Its okay, some theming ala KDE is better than just the default GTK :)
[01:09] <SuperCatFrog> hmm  - im gettings this: Package kdebindings is not available, but is referred to by another package.
[01:09] <SuperCatFrog> This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
[01:10] <SuperCatFrog> is only available from another source
[01:11] <kkathman> ahhh yes that message SuperCatFrog ...seen that
[01:12] <SuperCatFrog> ive seen it too, i'd like to replace it with "installing kdebindings-3.4.0" or similar
[01:12] <kkathman> haha
[01:12] <kkathman> SuperCatFrog: what happens when you try to install, without breezy being in your sources.list?  Remove the breezy reference, do an apt-get update and try that :)
[01:13] <SuperCatFrog> kkathman - ive removed all references to breezy - i'l post my sources.list on rafb
[01:13] <kkathman> SuperCatFrog: if it comes back as "kdebindings already at its current level" then you know whats going on
[01:13] <narg> hrm, can you bg apt-get to pause it and free bandwidth temporarly?
[01:13] <kkathman> hmm
[01:14] <gdh> ctrl-z should do that
[01:14] <kkathman> why not just send it to the background period?
[01:14] <narg> I know how to do it, Im wondering if it would mess with it :p
[01:14] <SuperCatFrog> http://rafb.net/paste/results/EeVxwM51.txt
[01:16] <kkathman> SuperCatFrog: looks ok to me, except you dont have the two top lines uncommented..but that shouldnt be a prob
[01:17] <SuperCatFrog> can somebody else try apt-get install kdebindings and see what happens?
[01:18] <kkathman> SuperCatFrog: what does the kdebindings supposed to do
[01:18] <gdh> Package kdebindings is not available, but is referred to by another package...... etc.
[01:18] <kkathman> hmmm
[01:19] <SuperCatFrog> kkathman - provides stuff like the qt bindings for ruby
[01:19] <smouche> oh oh -- I was just looking for a file in synaptic, and I got this alarming error:
[01:19] <smouche> W: Couldn't stat source package list http://mirror.aarnet.edu.au unstable/main Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/mirror.aarnet.edu.au_pub_java-linux_debian_dists_unstable_main_binary-i386_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
[01:19] <gdh> gosh, important things then :)
[01:20] <SuperCatFrog> ive been trying to learn ruby (ive got to the point where i'd like to have a first stab at qt with ruby)
[01:20] <smouche> What's "W", and what's "stat" ?
[01:20] <SuperCatFrog> but ive spent all day trying to get kdebindings installed
[01:20] <gdh> just do python like all the cool kids seem to =)
[01:20] <SuperCatFrog> but argh!
[01:20] <SuperCatFrog> i wanna use ruby!
[01:21] <gdh> hehhe 2 1337 :)
[01:21] <smouche> and can I fix things with just an edit in sources.list, or does that error indicate that I may have some garbage on my system from failed install?
[01:22] <gdh> smouche: just edit your sources.list - one repository is (now) incorrect
[01:23] <kkathman> SuperCatFrog: Have you checked on line in the KDE forums about kdebindings?
[01:23] <smouche> thanks gdh -- heh heh, I'm apt to panic over nothing, ain't I? 
[01:23] <SuperCatFrog> kkathman - no, i'l look
[01:23] <smouche> "apt to panic" heh heh ... man it's been a loooooong week...
[01:23] <gdh> LOL
[01:23] <gdh> It's fun with pun =)
[01:24] <smouche> my brain circuitry is not firing on all synaptics...
[01:25] <gdh> Oh stop it, you're k-illing me :)
[01:26] <smouche> apply kpr to gdh, kwik!
[01:26] <gdh> .... and so on =)
[01:26] <smouche> ad nauseum...
[01:26] <smouche> ;-)
[01:29] <SuperCatFrog> nothing in the kde forums
[01:31] <kkathman> SuperCatFrog: oh well it was a suggestion
[01:32] <TayloR> Well.. im off to bed
[01:32] <TayloR> so night to all when you go
[01:34] <kkathman> SuperCatFrog: I just did a couple of searches in other resources and nothing on the errors you are getting ..sorry bout that :(
[01:35] <SuperCatFrog> its ok, thanks anyway
[01:36] <kkathman> Hey SuperCatFrog remember earlier we were talking about Wine vs CrossOver Office?
[01:36] <SuperCatFrog> yes
[01:37] <kkathman> SuperCatFrog: what do you think the big difference between the two is?
[01:37] <kkathman> SuperCatFrog:  Im testing some understanding that I have from reading.
[01:38] <SuperCatFrog> from my understanding:
[01:39] <SuperCatFrog> wine is the opensource one, crossover is propriatry (although iirc it gives its patches back to wine a while after it has them itself). its unlikely to give back direct3d (again, iirc). also wine doesn't work around copy protection
[01:39] <SuperCatFrog> i'd recommend to try wine first
[01:39] <SuperCatFrog> if that does'nt work you _might_ want to consider getting a commercial wine (cadega or crossover)
[01:39] <kkathman> well I have "heard" that Dreamweaver MX and Photoshop 7 wont run in WINE, but WILL in CrossOver Office
[01:40] <SuperCatFrog> ah, just remembered, before i was thinking of cadega, not crossover. afaik crossover specialises i noffice software like dreamweaver
[01:40] <SuperCatFrog> but again, try wine first
[01:40] <kkathman> ok
[01:40] <kkathman> SuperCatFrog: Ok thank for your input, I appreciate it :)
[01:40] <gdh> kkathman: You heard wrong. 
[01:41] <gdh> kkathman: DWMX2004 won't run in anything I tried. Pshop 7 works fine in normal Wine
[01:41] <gdh> If I'm wrong, I would be very happy to be corrected :)
[01:42] <kkathman> gdh: Ok thanks very much for that
[01:42] <KaiL_> hm, in amarok is a settings entry "configure effects", but that's disabled...
[01:42] <KaiL_> why?
[01:42] <kkathman> gdh - guess I'll have to stick with Quanta eh?
[01:43] <gdh> kkathman: or VMWare, or qemu, or bochs :)
[01:43] <gdh> wine is 'good' but still has a long way to go
[01:43] <kkathman> gdh - are those other IDEs?
[01:44] <gdh> no, they're whole-PC emulators. i.e. they provide a PC BIOS / CGI / memory /network card etc.
[01:45] <gdh> kkathman: so you instlal windows on them exactly as you would a real PC... 
[01:45] <gdh> kkathman: An easy way to run Windows software without having to dual-boot or have a dedicated Windows machine
[01:45] <SuperCatFrog> kkathman - the effects only work with crapy arts
[01:45] <SuperCatFrog> brb
[01:45] <gdh> kkathman: s/CGI/VGA/
[01:46] <kkathman> ahh ok
[01:46] <kkathman> well
[01:46] <gdh> web prgramming in the brain...
[01:46] <kkathman> the only thing killing me really is not being able to use Photoshop and Flash
[01:46] <kkathman> well SWISHmax
[01:46] <gdh> Flash is a waste of time unless you're creating 'funny Flash animations'
[01:47] <kkathman> haha
[01:47] <gdh> Flash should be punishable by stoning if you're using it on a serious website
[01:47] <kkathman> gdh why??  Its almost expected now by most of my clients
[01:47] <kkathman> some dont want it...but they want that pizazz appeal :)
[01:48] <kkathman> I use SWISHmax...much cheaper anyway...and it MIGHT runn under WIne
[01:48] <gdh> kkathman: A very sad state of affairs. There are a large proportion of people who can't view flash content, either through personal choice, fucked-up windows config, or enterprise configuration (no admin prilvegees to install the plugin)
[01:49] <kkathman> gdh - agreed...and I ALWAYS counsel my clients against it for that reason :)
[01:49] <gdh> or people on non-Windows for whom the flash plugin is either unavailable (can you say 'disability' or 'blind' ?)
[01:49] <gdh> throw anti-accessibility legislation at them, threats of legal action
[01:49] <kkathman> gdh:  yep agree again
[01:50] <gdh> they'll soon kick that 'pazazz' into shape - fucking retards =)
[01:50] <kkathman> haha
[01:50] <kkathman> I much prefer just plain HTML, some PHP/MySQL and LOTS of CSS
[01:50] <gdh> ohyz :)
[01:51] <kkathman> ohyz???
[01:51] <gdh> Oh Yes :)
[01:51] <gdh> IRC has corrupted me
[01:52] <kkathman> hehe
[01:52] <kkathman> thats ok
[01:52] <kkathman> standards standards....and NOT Microsoft !!
[01:52] <kkathman> just because you own the world doesnt mean you can blatently break the rules over and over (unless you are M$)
[01:53] <gdh> especially the whole XHTML debacle
[01:53] <gdh> tag soup et al
[01:53] <kkathman> Active-X is the worst thing.....only MS Registry is worse
[01:54] <narg> Registry is evil...
[01:54] <gdh> yay, 3 or 4 files determining the health of your whole frickin installation
[01:54] <kkathman> I HATE the registry ...that in itself is enough to get me to give up M$
[01:56] <narg> I've actually seen multiple posts that suggests that linux adopts a registery similar to window's one ;/
[01:57] <Cellar|bbl> 0_0
[01:57] <gdh> LOL only on shit like zdnet I guess
[01:57] <gdh> (sponsored by MS of course)
[01:57] <kkathman> I swear I think that some MS people were sitting around one day saying...Hey I wonder what we could do to make our operating system completely unable to be upgraded ?  Oh lets build this registry where we put all the secret codes of the world..nobody can figure it out and thus everyone HAS to stay with us forever :)
[01:57] <narg> heh, it was on /. actually :p
[01:57] <gdh> narg: LOL even worse :)
[01:57] <gdh> full of clueless, fuckwits, trolls and retards
[01:58] <smouche> yes, when I'm inclined to complain about confusing (for newbies anyway) configuration in linux, and confusing directory structure, I recall the concentrated evil confusion when faces with the registry...
[01:58] <smouche> "faced with"
[01:59] <kkathman> smouche:    Yes a good idea would be to create something so completely complex that NO one would DARE try to figure it out, and just learn to live with it
[01:59] <Cellar|bbl> and its supposed to be a nice easy graphical app... :/
[01:59] <kkathman> Voilla- the registry!
[01:59] <gdh> yum, and consultancy fees would rocket for us all =)
[02:00] <smouche> nobody can figure it out except the ad-infestors who manage to sneak anything they want in there, without a squeek of protest from the os...
[02:00] <Cellar|bbl> my head is starting to hurt
[02:00] <gdh> I see the moz foundation have areleased a patch for Firefocks to stop popups from Flash and Java plugins =)
[02:00] <smouche> kkathman, I think you're on to something there; could be a plan for facing an inscrutable universe, actually... ;-)
[02:01] <gdh> thereby thwarting the current hole
[02:01] <kkathman> smouche: its all a part of the continuall plan in the universe to drive you completely out of your mind
[02:01] <smouche> the Tao of hopelessly coping with a Windows universe...;-)
[02:02] <kkathman> smouche: However I have learned a VALUABLE point....I do not suffer from insanity...I enjoy it.
[02:02] <smouche> and of course, when one window closes -- look on the bright side, another always pops up!
[02:02] <gdh> the circle of life
[02:02] <smouche> lol kkathman, that's it, go with the flow!
[02:02] <gdh> continual rebirth, it's quite miraculous =)
[02:03] <smouche> unless you have good pop-up blocking...
[02:04] <smouche> at least salmon have the good sense to spawn, and die... unlike many a windows process I know, or, alas kaffeine !!! darn it!
[02:04] <kkathman> LOL
[02:05] <smouche> Spawn, and die!  Let new life hog the CPU!
[02:05] <gdh> I don't think I actually like any of the KDE media players
[02:05] <gdh> esp amarok
[02:06] <gdh> play mp3s and piss off, damnit
, me neither, gdh... well, beep is functional...
[02:06] <gdh> I don't want a frickin 'media library'
[02:06] <smouche> lol, gdh -- !
[02:06] <gdh> I don't want "KTunes"
[02:06] <gdh> My media library *IS* my filesystem
[02:07] <gdh> already sorted the way *I* want
[02:07] <smouche> hah hah!  Every time people extravagantly praise amarok on here, I think -- do they realize how obnoxiously window's media player -like this business is
[02:07] <smouche> this "hey, let me organize your folders for you" crap!
[02:08] <gdh> and beyond that, this KDE app doesn't even use KDE KIOSlaves for reading
[02:08] <smouche> gdh, stop, you're reading my mind, and it might give you dyslexia...!
[02:08] <gdh> which means I can't even add smb://eddie/mp3 as my base URL
[02:08] <gdh> I have to mount via smbfs to /mnt/mp3 or similar
[02:09] <gdh> how *fucking* *stupid* is that for a KDE 'mega app' not to support such a criticial feature of KDE?
[02:10] <smouche> I've heard an app called Muine is nice, but it requires mono...
[02:10] <gdh> or if it does work, I have to wait for it to copy down each file to a temporary file. For a 3MB single track, that's a bit annoying... for a 60MB single-track-album, that's a bloody joke
[02:10] <smouche> I tried to install mono, got no where, couldn't run any of the apps
[02:11] <smouche> gdh, at least that doesn't happen with kaffeine, it loads off my LAN quite fast...
[02:11] <KaiL_> device: /dev/snd/pcmC1D1p can't be opened for playback (No such file or directory)
[02:12] <KaiL_> ...what is wrong there...?!?
[02:12] <smouche> anyway, beep works great with streamtuner, so I'm happy.
[02:12] <gdh> yes beep is my player of choice
[02:12] <KaiL_> artsd (and also amarok) cry, that the file doesn't exist
[02:12] <KaiL_> but it does..?!?!?!?!?
[02:12] <gdh> smouche: I even have the Winamp skin for it :)
[02:13] <smouche> heh heh, gdh, I'm browsing skins as we speak ;-)
[02:13] <KaiL_> noone an idea?
[02:13] <smouche> actually, I wonder if I can "de-skin" beep completely...?
[02:14] <gdh> the default skin which comes with Debian is frightful
[02:14] <gdh> KaiL_: No, sorry :/
[02:15] <KaiL_> ..back to oss, which sucks, but works
[02:15] <smouche> I haven't tried ALSA at all; oss is working great for me so far; but I'm really confused about sound configuration in linux...
[02:16] <KaiL_> on some other systems alsa does wonderful
[02:16] <KaiL_> but here it just plain sucks
[02:16] <smouche> I need alsa if I want to play multiple streams, yes?
[02:16] <KaiL_> it seams to get totally confused, that the first card doesn't support playback, only capture
[02:16] <gdh> no, arts does the mixing I think
[02:17] <gdh> I've never liked arts, either
[02:17] <gdh> indeed I think I just have a firm disposition against KDE's entire audio support :)
[02:17] <gdh> it feels really flimsy
[02:18] <smouche> this is weird; when I try to open a file with xmms, it's opening in beep instead ... ?
[02:19] <gdh> 'which xmms' ?
[02:19] <gdh> is it a symlink to beep?
[02:19] <smouche> I have no idea, gdh
[02:20] <gdh> it'd be nice if it were 2008 and then all this kind of shit would have settled properly.
[02:20] <smouche> may take longer...
[02:20] <gdh> .. and if america had managed to blow itself up with its own nuclear weapons so GNOME probably wouldn't exist any more :)
[02:21] <kkathman> gdh:  you know what happened to w32codecs?
[02:21] <kkathman> I thought that was the package name
[02:21] <gdh> kkathman: they should still be on marillat / nerim.net
[02:21] <gdh> same as with the mplayer binaries, etc.
[02:21] <kkathman> ahhh... ok...they werent on any of the ubuntu repos
[02:22] <gdh> no they won't be :)
[02:22] <gdh> wildly non-free - much more so than multiverse can cater for
[02:22] <kkathman> whats thats repos site again?
[02:22] <gdh> ask google
[02:22] <kkathman> ok
[02:22] <gdh> for 'marillat debian' etc.
[02:23] <gdh> w32codecs is bordering on warez, tbh :)
[02:24] <kkathman> yeah you are right, but I cant seem to play anything through totem
[02:24] <SuperCatFrog> gdh - arts wont be there in kde 4
[02:24] <SuperCatFrog> its being replaced - by gstreamer iirc
[02:24] <gdh> oooh about bloody time :)
[02:24] <SuperCatFrog> (i'd prefer xine but you cant have everything)
[02:25] <gdh> a real full-featured media framework
[02:25] <kkathman> SuperCatFrog: there is a totem-xine package...it deinstalls the gstreamer
[02:25] <kkathman> for what its worth that is
[02:25] <smouche> weird how kplayer, when loading a playlist, doesn't display the file names, just shows name of playlist and total time...
[02:25] <SuperCatFrog> kkathman - ta
[02:26] <SuperCatFrog> im off for a fag
[02:26] <SuperCatFrog> brb
[02:26] <gdh> how very liberal of you :)
[02:27] <SuperCatFrog>  before i go, i should probably point out that in the UK, that means cigarette
[02:27] <gdh> hehe :)
[02:27] <kkathman> SuperCatFrog: hehe...understand :)
[02:27] <kkathman> gdh what part of England?
[02:27] <gdh> Chorley, Lancs.
[02:27] <smouche> just don't burn down the flat -- and if you do, don't use the lift
[02:28] <gdh> kkathman: (20 miles from Manchester)
[02:28] <kkathman> ahh.. I work with a guy originally from Newcastle
[02:28] <smouche> my favorite Britishisms are "randy" and "pissed"
[02:28] <kkathman> gdh - been to Manchester many times :)
[02:28] <smouche> quite confusing for us tourists, I imagine.  "Hi, I'm Randy!"
[02:28] <gdh> kkathman: More than I have, I'll bet :)
[02:28] <kkathman> usually on my way to Aberdeen
[02:28] <gdh> Having lived here 2 years I think I've beeni M'cr city about twice
[02:29] <kkathman> my friend is a big fan of the football team in Newcastle
[02:29] <kkathman> rivalry I believe with Man United
[02:29] <gdh> kkathman: A lot of people are... so much for natural selection...
[02:29] <kkathman> hehe I'll tell him that :)
[02:30] <gdh> I reckon 95% of Man U fans have never ever been to Manchester in their lives =)
[02:30] <kkathman> no love loss between man and newcastle I take it?
[02:30] <kkathman> haha
[02:30] <gdh> Football, indeed sport, bores me senseless
[02:30] <kkathman> thats kinda like here...there are more Dallas Cowboy fans outside of Texas than IN Dallas :)
[02:31] <smouche> at least with our yankee brand of "football", only the players need helmets!
[02:31] <kkathman> smouche: haha
 I reckon 95% of Man U fans have never ever been to Manchester in their lives << I bet, that's the same for many of those clubs
[02:31] <gdh> KaiL_: I'd agree - it really shouldbe  a regulation that you have to have lived in the area of club for X years before beinb able to join up
[02:32] <gdh> They might as well just call the teams by numbers
[02:32] <kkathman> lol
[02:32] <KaiL_> gdh: uhm, no - that would mean, I *must* be a fan of a soccer team, which is just some idiots
[02:33] <kkathman> what "football" is missing is extreme violence on the field....if they had that, there would be less in the stands I think :)
[02:33] <gdh> Wasn't one of the big reasons that soccer never really took off in the US that the scoring wasn't high enough?
[02:33] <smouche> in New York, we have that problem with out police officers...
[02:33] <gdh> the numbers were too small to be 'exciting' ?
[02:33] <KaiL_> somewhere in 4th league in Germany
[02:33] <kkathman> thats why we dont rush the field in our pro games...cuz theres plenty of people bashing about
[02:33] <gdh> kkathman: That's rugby - all the violence is on the pitch - the fancs are generally exceptionally well behaved
[02:34] <KaiL_> gdh: well, they doesn't give points for everything - uncommon in US sports
[02:34] <smouche> truth is, soccer just can't stand up to interruptions for commercials..
[02:34] <gdh> =)
[02:34] <KaiL_> ever saw NASCAR point system? not even the teamchefs understand it :)
[02:35] <smouche> and it sucks if you're fetching a beer, and then after forever with 0-0, you hear behind you "goooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaalll!!!"
[02:35] <gdh> smouche: hah true :) two 45 minute sections doesn't leave a lot of room for 3-minute breaks
[02:35] <SuperCatFrog> kkathman - everybody hates manutd except us manutd fans
[02:35] <SuperCatFrog> (back)
[02:35] <gdh> smouche: that's what http://www.cadsoft.de/vdr is for :)
[02:36] <KaiL_> smouche: are you from us?
[02:36] <kkathman> SuperCatFrog:  thats like the Cowboys were for a long time...now they are so freaking bad, people feel sorry for us
[02:36] <regeya> or are you from them?
[02:36] <smouche> Soccer games just aren't like the tv show "24"  -- they don't magically arrange events so that nothing crucial happens during commercial breaks...
[02:36] <gdh> smouche: LOL
[02:36] <regeya> no tv time outs then
[02:36] <smouche> KaiL, yes
[02:36] <smouche> I'm in NYC
[02:37] <regeya> I did that manually which is why Rammstein is misspelled
[02:37] <KaiL_> about US motorsports: do the tv stations use savetycar for commercials?
[02:37] <gdh> smouche: If you ever see Jay Leno on the street, please punch him from me.
[02:37] <regeya> doesn't Leno broadcast from L.A.?
[02:37] <gdh> irritating, self-assured little twat
 :)
[02:37] <gdh> doens't mean he could never be in NYC :)
[02:37] <smouche> wrong coast, gdh, but will try --
[02:37] <regeya> heh
[02:37] <smouche> ??
[02:38] <kkathman> gdh do you get to see David Letterman?
[02:38] <regeya> ve're all leeving in amerika
[02:38] <KaiL_> ..in Europa they don't - they could miss to show an injured driver...
[02:38] <gdh> kkathman: Yes, Letterman isn't so bad ... I still switch over when the vacuous guests come on, though
[02:38] <KaiL_> the commercials are with the restart
[02:38] <regeya> I have the lamest reason for wanting to go to NYC--I want to get tickets to see Spamalot
[02:39] <kkathman> gdh: See I cant stand Letterman, but I can tolerate Leno
[02:39] <gdh> hah :)
[02:39] <smouche> hah hah hah!  Reason enough!
[02:39] <smouche> I want to see that!
[02:39] <kkathman> gdh: but neither one I'd really make a point in watching
[02:39] <gdh> Can I have spamalot without the spam, please?
[02:39] <gdh> I don't like spam :)
[02:39] <gdh> kkathman: Agreed - it's easy viewing if it happens to be on...
[02:39] <kkathman> right
[02:40] <regeya> and if spamalot does well, someone should do a musical based on series 1 blackadder
[02:40] <kkathman> gdh but I try my best to do very few things that are mindless :)
[02:40] <KaiL_> smouche: about US motorsports: do the tv stations use savetycar for commercials?
[02:40] <kkathman> remember I enjoy my insanity :)
[02:40] <gdh> Tony robinson's too busy digging up roman remains thesedays =)
[02:40] <regeya> wouldn't be as funny without the original cast, though...hm...
[02:40] <smouche> KaiL_, sorry, I don't know.
[02:40] <regeya> heh true
[02:40] <smouche> Not a lot of motorsports in NYC
[02:40] <KaiL_> bad :p
[02:40] <gdh> "Oh look! A series of small walls!"
[02:40] <regeya> :-(
[02:40] <smouche> other than "dodge the jaywalker"
[02:40] <gdh> woot, tony.
[02:40] <gdh> woot
[02:41] <regeya> "And right here are the petrified remains of a turnip"
[02:41] <SuperCatFrog> im off to bed
[02:41] <SuperCatFrog> nite all
[02:41] <gdh> Indy 500 is fantastic, 3 hours of driving round a rectangle. Genius! :D
[02:41] <regeya> here's the question to ask a new yorker:  do you have a driver's license?
[02:41] <smouche> regeya, you got me.
[02:41] <KaiL_> gdh: well, normally those races are *way* more exciting that Formula 1
[02:41] <smouche> I don't.
[02:42] <regeya> heh
[02:42] <KaiL_> as overtaking it NOT impossible there
[02:42] <regeya> no need, I suppose
[02:42] <gdh> KaiL_: F1 has bends at least :) 
[02:42] <smouche> more pathetically still -- I wasn't even raised in the city!
[02:42] <kkathman> gdh: I agree. I just dont get auto racing...NASCAR and all that...get in a car, drive around an oval for 2.5 hours
[02:42] <kkathman> how boring
[02:42] <gdh> KaiL_: Again it still falls under 'sport' ..so.. blegh :)
[02:42] <regeya> smouche: no reason to feel bad.  out here in bumfuzzle illinois I couldn't work without a license
[02:42] <KaiL_> kkathman: afair NASCARs are "undrivable"
[02:43] <kkathman> gdh there are LOTS of things that are "sport" but I dont agree...anything that had judges, and give a score, that AINT sport...its athletic..but not sport.
[02:43] <smouche> regeya, in NYC, more dogs have licenses than humans...
[02:43] <KaiL_> I don't want to sit in a car 1,6t heavy, technically 1960th and around 250km/h fast
[02:43] <regeya> HEH
[02:43] <kkathman> gdh gymnastics...ice skating, synchronized swimming and diving...NOT SPORT
[02:43] <KaiL_> ...around me several other idiots, who only want to pass me, doesn't matter how
[02:44] <gdh> In fact the whole olympics should go to /dev/null
[02:44] <regeya> OTOH, you have a deeper gene pool to choose from, smouche
[02:44] <kkathman> ROFL
[02:44] <smouche> rofl, gdh
[02:44] <gdh> save us all millions
[02:45] <kkathman> gdh: football sport, points.  Baseball, sport, points.  Track and field?  Sport...time and distance. Objective..no controversy.
[02:45] <regeya> <font face="verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">The rest of the world may know Steve Irwin as the simple minded buffoon who likes to wrestle crocodiles and feed them whilst <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3364733.stm">
[02:45] <regeya>  holding his baby son</a>.</font>
[02:45] <regeya> konversation and its weird handling of cut-n-paste...grr..
[02:46] <regeya> wrong channel even
[02:46] <smouche> I only watch the olympics, winter variety, for one thing -- the ski jump.  Jesus I envy those guys...
[02:46] <regeya> bah.
[02:47] <kkathman> smouche: see thats sport...distance..unambiguous. Speed skating...time..unambiguous.
[02:47] <smouche> corrupt Russian officials judging ice-dancing, priceless...
[02:47] <gdh> but what about the luge? one bloke dressed completely in rubber, in public, hurtling him down an icy tube at 100mph ? :D
[02:48] <kkathman> smouche: ice dancing...NOT sport.  subjective
[02:48] <gdh> that's not sport, that's insanity combined with perversion
[02:48] <kkathman> gdh HAHA good point
[02:50] <smouche> how about a guy dressed in ice, hurtling down a rubber tube?  Now that I'd watch.
[02:50] <smouche> women's version, anyway...
[02:50] <gdh> :)
[02:51] <smouche> well, are we flagrantly off topic or what??? lol
[02:51] <kkathman> well Im off to go eat...be back later gents :)
[02:51] <smouche> bon apetit kkathman
[02:51] <kkathman-away> tanx :)
[02:53] <gdh> I'm supposed tobe on a diet, too....
[02:53] <gdh> I used to be a fat bastard
[02:53] <gdh> Now I'm just a bastard :)
[02:53] <regeya> s'okay.  I'm quaffing a beer.  and life has made me a bitter fat bastard
[02:54] <smouche> "Bitter fat bastard"  !  I like it
[02:54] <regeya> too many of us these days
[02:54] <smouche> should open a clothing store named that, or something
[02:54] <gdh> smouche: I think thinkgeek.com is CNAME'd to that :)
[02:54] <regeya> maybe they (we) were here all along, and now that I've joined the club, I think I've found a new trend
[02:55] <regeya> I'd write an autobiography, but Scott Adams already did the job for me
[02:55] <smouche> I'm a sour old skinney bastard, myself
[02:57] <smouche> alright, I gotta go microwave some cheap hamburgers or something... see you folks later
[02:58] <KaiL_> WARNING: v4l-conf is compiled without DGA support. << aha, that's why overlay in xawtv doesn't work
[02:58] <KaiL_> using v4l-conf from debian helps
[02:59] <KaiL_> again xawtv with 3% cpu load
[02:59] <KaiL_> ...not 30% any more
[03:02] <regeya> could have sworn that there was a script to announce track names from amarok in konversation, but /amarok no longer works...ah well, I'm sure it's highly irritating
[03:02] <regeya> Aaron Copland - Appalachian Spring (Suite 1945) - Moderato: Coda
[03:07] <KaiL_> /media it is
[03:07] <KaiL_> :p
[03:09] <marco_carvalho> hahahah :P
[03:09] <gdh> I won't bore with the names and track details of artists you don't give a shit about =)
[03:09] <Kortor> hey KaiL_. i just got x working with the fglrx drivers
[03:10] <Kortor> KaiL_: It was the stupidest thing that I did to get it to work.
[03:13] <KaiL_> what was wrong?
[03:14] <Kortor> I dunno. I just did a dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg and used the same settings as last time except i turned frambuffer device off and set screen depth to 8
[03:14] <Kortor> then it complained about screen depth 8 so i set it back to 24, what it was before
[03:15] <Kortor> and boom, it worked
[03:15] <Kortor> so apparently it was just framebuffer
[03:15] <KaiL_> ...so disabling fb is it...
[03:15] <Kortor> yep
[03:15] <Kortor> nod
[03:15] <Kortor> night
[03:16] <_sam> hola
[03:16] <Kortor> hola
[03:22] <gdh> brief.
[03:33] <Kortor> No matter how many times I see this, im always gonna love it:
[03:33] <Kortor> A UNIX saleslady, Lenore,
[03:33] <Kortor> Enjoys work, but she likes the beach more.
[03:33] <Kortor> She found a good way
[03:33] <Kortor> To combine work and play:
[03:33] <Kortor> She sells C shells by the seashore.
[03:33] <gdh> Bah :)
[03:33] <Kortor> :P
[03:34] <Kortor> mm...
[03:34] <Kortor> America's Army is ALMOST done downloading
[03:35] <Kortor> hopefully I have better luck playing it this time than I did last time. don't think I will though
[03:35] <Kortor> ATI's crappy linux drivers make it lag so much. :(
[03:46] <Kortor> I've never actually seen newbies say things as bad as people do when they make fun of them, but I just saw this "plz ne help wud b gr8ful thx"
[03:48] <gdh> click 'Move to' ... click 'Trash' ... click OK ... 
[03:48] <gdh> all better now
[03:49] <gdh> BREAKING NEWS: n00b becomes self-parody lololol, more at 11.
[03:49] <Kortor> hah
[03:49] <Kortor> afk
[04:02] <Kortor> back
[04:05] <Kortor> gdh: if i was a mod on that forum i would ban that guy for "Illegal Removal of Vowals(TM)"
[04:06] <gdh> I'd be more arrogant and just say that 'English is the only permitted language'
[04:08] <Kortor> haha
[04:08] <Kortor> noice
[04:09] <gdh> right, bedtime. nn :)
[04:29] <Kortor> Does anyone know if there is a mudclient for linux with the features of zMUD?
[04:33] <queuetue> Hi, all.  I've got a running ubuntu (no answer there, so I thought I'd ask in here) hoary Athlon system, and I pulled the drives and put them into a new Athlon 64 system... and the disks get errors - buffer I/O on logical block 0...  I can boot the system with DSL cd just fine, and mount, fsck, manipulate the disks just fine, no errors.  But I try to boot ubuntu, and the disk errors come back.  Does anyone have a clue?
[04:44] <_exciton> Hi I'm running an iBook with kubuntu 5.04 and wanted to know if there was any easy wireless options like USB or something anyone know if anything will work
[04:50] <Cellar|bbl> hi
[04:50] <kkathman> hey there Cellar :)
[04:50] <CellarDoor> :)
[04:51] <kkathman> _exciton: are you asking what is needed to get wireless working?
[04:52] <SpookyET> Hi.  Is there a way to uninstall ubuntu-desktop after you install it?
[04:53] <Kortor> spookyet: if you want kubuntu, you can just apt-get install kubuntu-desktop i believe. you dont need to uninstall ubuntu-desktop
[04:53] <kkathman> spooky, depends on how you installed....did you install hoary, then apt-get kubuntu-desktop?
[04:53] <SpookyET> no
[04:53] <Kortor> Does anyone know if there is a mudclient for linux with the features of zMUD?
[04:53] <SpookyET> i got kubuntu
[04:53] <SpookyET> i did apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
[04:54] <kkathman> SpookyET: if you installed using the Kubuntu disk, then I dont know if you dont have to reinstall just hoary
[04:54] <kkathman> nope that probably wont work
[04:54] <kkathman> it would if you had apt-get install kubuntu-desktop tho
[04:54] <kkathman> but you would have needed to be in Gnome to do it I imagine
[04:55] <SpookyET> i heard of this tool that monitors all debs that you installed and you can give it the command to uninstall, similar to a system restore.
[04:55] <kkathman> hmmm... Im not aware of it, but that doesnt mean it doesnt exists
[04:55] <CellarDoor> *up
[04:56] <CellarDoor> sounds interesting
[04:56] <kkathman> you might could use synaptic
[04:56] <kkathman> but not sure how
[04:56] <CellarDoor> I dl'd synaptic
[04:56] <zabu> firefox keeps crashing on me
[04:56] <zabu> I tried reinstallin from synaptic but it didn't help
[04:57] <kkathman> SpookyET: Yes you can use synaptic to see whats installed
[04:57] <CellarDoor> can't see anything in synaptic's menu's at a glance
[04:57] <CellarDoor> except fixing broken packages
[04:57] <kkathman> SpookyET: in fact, you can choose a section, such as Graphics or KDE and see the packages that are installed
[04:58] <CellarDoor> yeh
[04:58] <SpookyET> i wish i could just do apt-get uninstall ubuntu-desktop
[04:58] <CellarDoor> I't would be nice if kynaptic had all the features of synaptic
[04:58] <smouche> zabu, I'm not sure but the first install might have left some folders behind, with configuration settings at stuff -- you might try removing all that stuff, then reinstalling firefox
[04:59] <zabu> hmm maybe
[04:59] <_exciton> kkathman: sorry the screen was not scrolling... I have an airport extream and I know it's not going to work so I'm looking for something I can use
[04:59] <CellarDoor> hey does anyone know about the Konqueror crashing problem
[05:00] <kkathman> _exciton: if you go to www.ubuntuforums.org, go to Hardware, and search USB I think you might get what you are looking for there :)
[05:00] <smouche> other than that zabu, I find that mplayer makes firefox crash frequently -- browsing much mulitmedia?
[05:00] <kkathman> I saw a few things there even for ibook
[05:00] <zabu> nope
[05:00] <CellarDoor> I've had Konqureror crashing and burning far to regularly. I had a winge at kde.dot and they said it was a known problem with kubuntu atm not KDE
[05:00] <_exciton> kkathman: thanks i'll take a look
[05:00] <kkathman> I havent had Konq konk out on me yet..but I dont use it all that much..I use Opera
[05:01] <smouche> CellarDoor, only way I could get Konqueror file browser to stop crashing was to turn off the left hand navigation panel.
[05:01] <CellarDoor> really ?
[05:01] <smouche> konq as a web browser has been fine
[05:01] <CellarDoor> thats wierd
[05:01] <kkathman> smouche: can you reproduce the crashing through a specific series of events?
[05:02] <smouche> kkathman, there's a bug report filed where a few people did so...
[05:02] <CellarDoor> but it still crashes when used for web browsing
[05:02] <kkathman> Ive used Konq mostly for things OTHER than a browser with no incidents
[05:02] <smouche> I'm frankly not interested in trying myself
[05:02] <kkathman> ohh I was just going to see if I could get it to crash
[05:02] <CellarDoor> I've even watched my home folder go *poof* for no apparent reason
[05:02] <SpookyET> I want to install kubuntu on disk.  Right now, I have it in vmware.  Will I have to use partition magic to resize the windows partition, or is the installer smart enough to do it for me?
[05:03] <smouche> but basically, if I opened konq from system menu, with navigation panel on, the logo thing in upper right corner spins endlessly, and later on in a session konqueror will crash
[05:03] <CellarDoor> hmm 
[05:04] <kkathman> SpookyET: the installer will look to see what space you have and make a guess, but you might have to tweak it...however I would advise against installing kubuntu....install hoary 5.04, then apt-get install kubuntu-desktop
[05:04] <smouche> but like I said, lose the navigation panel, or "simple browser" configuration, and the problem seems to occur much less
[05:04] <SpookyET> kkathman: why?  
[05:05] <kkathman> SpookyET: because, I think there are fewer problems that way, plus you get a second desktop manager to fall back on
[05:05] <SpookyET> don't they have the same installer?
[05:06] <CellarDoor> I dunno, It looks ok when I start Konqueror up from within the Kmenu, no icon spinning... just seems to suddenly go *poof* during just about every session, I was hoping there might be an update
[05:06] <kkathman> SpookyET: no I dont think so...but then Ive never installed Kubuntu, I've always done the native hoary
[05:06] <smouche> I've heard a lot of complaints about not getting a usable cd install from burning kubuntu ... happened to a friend of mine -- so I told him to do just what kkathman said...
[05:07] <smouche> konqueror kraps out frequently enough for enough people that, imho, this release is rather prematurely declared "stable"
[05:07] <smouche> but I know nothing about these decisions...
[05:07] <CellarDoor> my system is usable, just the Konqureror problem is annoying at it affects multiple things
[05:08] <smouche> kate crashes on me too; I've given up on it.
[05:08] <SpookyET> amaroK crashes on me when i try to play di.fm
[05:08] <kkathman> CellarDoor: if your problems are primarily with web browsing, then try Opera...its stable 
[05:08] <smouche> kedit or nano are good enough for me.  Tho' I really liked kate
[05:08] <SpookyET> kdesktop crashes sometimes
[05:08] <SpookyET> i'm not sure if these are vmware artifacts
[05:08] <kkathman> I still use gedit :)
[05:08] <CellarDoor> No, it seems to affect file management and amaroK as well
[05:09] <kkathman> SpookyET: you might try the pure install and see if you fare better
[05:09] <kkathman> bbiab
[05:09] <smouche> I'd like to have gedit, but I don't know if I want to pull in all that gnome stuff -- lots of dependencies with gedit, I think ...
[05:09] <smouche> gedit was my favorite thing with gnome!
[05:10] <smouche> I didn't care for my warty to hoary to kubuntu install, so I started from scratch from kubuntu rc cd...
[05:10] <SpookyET> someone needs to port Clearlooks to KDE
[05:10] <CellarDoor> I think this kubuntu release maybe was a bit premature
[05:11] <CellarDoor> But I really really wanted KDE 3.4 :P
[05:11] <SpookyET> CellarDoor: is there another distro with it?
[05:11] <CellarDoor> hmm I think Suse 9.3 maybe
[05:11] <smouche> CellarDoor -- you might try rox-filer for file management - it's terrific, though it looks very different from kde apps, and you can't browse network shares with it
[05:11] <Kortor> Does anyone know if there is a mudclient for linux with keybinding, numpad walking, variables, and aliases?
[05:12] <CellarDoor> hmm might have a look at it smouche
[05:12] <SpookyET> CellarDoor: suse 9.3 is bad
[05:12] <SpookyET> multimedia problems
[05:12] <CellarDoor> yeah I read a really bad review on suse 9.3
[05:12] <pamri> smouche: try mousepad. a lightweight alternative for XFCE. its based on gedit.
[05:13] <SpookyET> one thing about network shares that piss me off is that I can't play files like mp3s.  I have to download them, then play them. It makes no sense.
[05:13] <smouche> or, CellarDoor -- I use Krusader.   Much better than konqueror --but for some reason I can't get the system to let me associate folders with it...
[05:13] <CellarDoor> which is sad cause suse always has seemed to have a pretty good rep
[05:13] <CellarDoor> hmm
[05:13] <CellarDoor> so many proggies
[05:13] <CellarDoor> :P
[05:13] <smouche> SpookyET -- try kaffeine -- it plays them without downloading the whole file.
[05:14] <smouche> Kaffeine has other problems though.
[05:14] <SpookyET> Is anything usable?
[05:14] <CellarDoor> Kaffeine is much better than it used to be
[05:14] <smouche> pamri, thank you!  I love XFCE, in fact
[05:17] <CellarDoor> It would be nice to see this problem with Konqureror fixed though
[05:17] <smouche> hmmn, pamri, mousepad seems exactly like leafpad.  
[05:18] <smouche> pity neither mousepad nor leafpad has tabs -- that's what I really like in gedit.  Maybe there's a newer version of mousepad out there than is in the repos...
[05:20] <SpookyET> is there an equivalent to amaroK for gnome?
[05:22] <smouche> RhythmBox, I think , SpookyET
[05:22] <smouche> anyway, it does that "let me organize your music folders for you" routine that I happen to really dislike.  
[05:23] <SpookyET> does it support iPods?
[05:23] <smouche> Probably, but I don't know.
[05:23] <smouche> you might ask in #ubuntu
[05:24] <SpookyET> i might install ubuntu and change those win95 icons.  I like clear looks.
[05:25] <SpookyET> are all these crashes kubuntu's fault or KDEs fault?
[05:26] <smouche> heh, in #ubuntu, someone asked how to turn off window min/max animation, and 
[05:26] <smouche> got the reply "In gconf-editor, set /apps/metacity/general/reduced_resources to true."
[05:27] <smouche> problem with that, which is symptomatic of problem I have with gnome in general,
[05:27] <smouche> is that that turns off other stuff too!  
[05:28] <smouche> I for one choose to disable animations 'cause I don't like them, not because I require "reduced resources"
[05:28] <smouche> gnome is worse than windows sometimes!
[05:30] <SpookyET> i find that gnome apps aren't as integrated as kde apps
[05:33] <smouche> SpookyET, what's "clear looks" exactly?  I'm not well informed about icons
[05:34] <SpookyET> http://clearlooks.sourceforge.net/screenshots/
[05:34] <Kortor> anyone here know anything about tinyfugue client?
[05:34] <smouche> thanks SpookyET 
[05:35] <SpookyET> it looks very good
[05:35] <SpookyET> except the gnome icons
[05:36] <smouche> I see what you mean.
[05:36] <SpookyET> what do you think?
[05:36] <smouche> very nice looking theme.
[05:37] <SpookyET> i think it those colours are very easy on the eyes as well as looking good.
[05:37] <smouche> yes!  I agree.   
[05:37] <SpookyET> I think it is indepedent.  The gnome theme have no artistic skills.
[05:38] <smouche> I like the xfce themes actually; pity they can't be used in kde; iceWM themes are nice too
[05:39] <SpookyET> I think the flash demos are fake.  it can't be that fast.
[05:40] <SpookyET> Is there a KDevelop equivalent for gnome?
[05:41] <smouche> don't know, SpookyET .
[05:44] <SpookyET> Have you heard that interview about kde 4.0?
[05:44] <SpookyET> They plan to match OS X.
[05:49] <lizardcry> there's a gtk widgets package for openoffice;  what about for kde?????
[05:50] <Kortor> how do i find out what characters are generated by a keystroke?
[05:50] <Kortor> im trying to set my mud client to move with the directional pad
[05:51] <SpookyET> smouche: know of an alternative to KPDF for gnome?  Acrobat 7 is too fat.
[05:51] <smouche> hmm, not offhand, Spooky net.  I thought ubuntu used something called xpdf, but I don't recall...
[05:52] <pamri> lizardcry: try openoffice.org-kde
[05:52] <pamri> SpookyET: gpdf
[05:53] <smouche> Kortor, I've always been curious about muds, but never tried one.  Are they still going strong?  
[05:54] <SpookyET> BitTorrent is so cool when there are 4 times more seeds than leechers
[05:54] <Kortor> smouche: oh yes, most definately
[05:54] <Kortor> smouche: the bad thing is the only good client for them i could find is tinyfugue
[05:54] <Kortor> smouche: which is a bit hard to use
[05:55] <lizardcry> pamri, not available to apt; probably need to expand source in synaptic, etc;  can you say how???
[05:58] <pamri> lizardcry: hmm...haven't come across the error. but have this in your /etc/apt/sources.list:
[05:58] <pamri> deb ftp://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hoary main restricted universe multiverse
[05:58] <pamri> deb ftp://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hoary main restricted universe multiverse
[06:00] <CellarDoor> has anybody registered this channel yet ?
[06:01] <SpookyET> yes
[06:01] <CellarDoor> ah kewl
[06:01] <SpookyET> ./chanserv info #kubuntu
[06:01] <CellarDoor> aah ty
[06:02] <CellarDoor> wow has it been around that long ?
[06:02] <lizardcry> pamri, i didnt have multiverse; will try ...
[06:03] <CellarDoor> dang back to work
[06:03] <lizardcry> pamri, what I get: apt-get install openoffice.org-kde
[06:03] <lizardcry> Reading package lists... Done
[06:03] <lizardcry> Building dependency tree... Done
[06:03] <lizardcry> Package openoffice.org-kde is not available, but is referred to by another package.
[06:03] <lizardcry> This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
[06:03] <lizardcry> is only available from another source
[06:03] <lizardcry> E: Package openoffice.org-kde has no installation candidate
[06:04] <SpookyET> the partioner needs a lot of work
[06:04] <pamri> lizardcry: did you apt-get update after editing sources.list. I have it installed here.
[06:05] <lizardcry> pamri, yes sir
[06:07] <lizardcry> pamri, maybe because i'm amd64 -- i dont know ...
[06:08] <SpookyET> k3b for gnome?
[06:09] <Kortor> int body = 2;
[06:09] <Kortor> int leg = 1;
[06:09] <Kortor> int arm = 1;
[06:09] <Kortor> int headache = body - leg - arm;
[06:09] <Kortor> ati_driver + linux == headache;
[06:11] <SpookyET> nvidia
[06:11] <Kortor> nvidia is superior to ati... which i sadly did not know when i bought my ati card
[06:12] <Cellar|work> nvidia r0x0rs
[06:12] <Cellar|work> oop
[06:12] <SpookyET> superior when it comes to drivers
[06:12] <Cellar|work> I'm supposed to be working 
[06:12] <Cellar|work> hehe
[06:12] <verden01> what do you do Cellar|work 
[06:13] <Cellar|work> assistant manager at a very busy servo
[06:13] <Cellar|work> :P
[06:13] <Cellar|work> I'm supposed to boss people around, but nobody listens to me
[06:13] <Cellar|work> oh well
[06:13] <Cellar|work> cyass
[06:21] <verden01> cool
[06:21] <verden01> as long ass the work is getting done i guess it doesn't matter
[06:27] <sismateck> Hi
[06:28] <sismateck> Kubuntu is very nice
[06:28] <sismateck> :D
[06:28] <sismateck> I'm new in the ubuntu community
[06:28] <sismateck> Sorry for my english
[06:28] <sismateck> I'm italian
[06:29] <smouche> welcome sismateck!  
[06:29] <sismateck> Thanks
[06:31] <sismateck> I have problem with rts streaming....don't play in the Kaffeine player.....why?
[06:32] <sismateck> All packages are installed
[06:32] <smouche> I don't know, sismateck, I've been lucky with audio so far, but hopefully someone in the channel will
[06:33] <smouche> be able to help,
[06:33] <smouche> it's a little slow this evening...
[07:27] <kkathman> wassup...where is everyone?
[07:37] <smouche> doing what I should be doing on a Friday night, probably, kkathman - getting out of the house.
[07:37] <smouche> but man, it is quiet!
[07:38] <smouche> I've been reading #ubuntu off and on -- 
[07:43] <verden01> Hi
[07:44] <kkathman> yeah it seems so :)
[07:44] <kkathman> we just finished watching a movie
[07:48] <smouche> I'm chillin'.  What'd you watch, kkathman? 
[07:49] <kkathman> A movie called "The Day After Tomorrow" smouche
[07:51] <smouche> ah, yes, Dennis Quaid, cataclysmic climate changes, that flick?
[07:51] <kkathman> yeppers thats it
[07:51] <kkathman> pretty good movie, great FX
[07:59] <smouche> me, I'm watching a fairly lame but somehow involving japanese flick called "Pyrokinesis"
[07:59] <smouche> with only one eye, the other one wants to sleep!
[07:59] <kkathman> hmmm never heard of that
[08:00] <smouche> well, I got like 200 channels and nuthin' on!
[08:04] <kkathman> haha
[08:04] <smouche> 'cept my pyjamas, I meant to say... ;-)
[08:05] <smouche> speaking of which, time for the sack
[08:05] <smouche> say goodnight, kubuntu.
[08:06] <smouche> Goodnight kubuntu!
[08:06] <kkathman> night smouche :)
[08:06] <smouche> g'night, er morning, kkathman -- good luck with the upgrades
[08:06] <kkathman> thanks!!
[08:17] <jnoon> is kubuntu as current as ubuntu?  is it on the same release schedule?
[08:20] <verden01> yes
[08:30] <jnoon> cool just read about it... going to reboot
[08:50] <Alfred1881> hi all, what is TSE3 and noteedit
[08:52] <verden01> ???
[08:56] <Alfred1881> what's SMB4K , and does a normal internet user need it ?
[08:56] <verden01> Hi
[08:57] <Alfred1881> jo
[08:57] <verden01> where are you looking all this up
[08:59] <verden01> it could be a samba server???
[08:59] <verden01> who knows
[08:59] <Alfred1881> what is samba used for ?
[09:00] <verden01> its a networking program to connect to windows machines i think?
[09:00] <verden01> so your linux box can talk to your windows boxes etc
[09:00] <jnoon> ok.. im having this strange issue where certain characters are showing up as boxes... obviouslly im missing a character set or encodings or something.. i just dont know what i need to get it fixed.. anyone know?
[09:01] <verden01> what are u running
[09:02] <jnoon> me?
[09:02] <jnoon> hoary with kubuntu installed if me
[09:02] <verden01> yeah
[09:04] <jnoon> i think its apostraphies and quotes and such... i edited a web page the other day, didnt realize the problem.. saved the changes went on from another computer and it had saved "encoding" looking things in their place (i guess since it couldnt determine what they were).  so i had to go in and redo the right characters
[09:05] <jnoon> if i paste you one i wonder what it will look like on your end... on mine they are just boxes
[09:05] <verden01> ok
[09:05] <jnoon> heres one: 
[09:05] <jnoon> did that even show
[09:05] <jnoon> it didnt look like it pasted
[09:06] <verden01> nothing here
[09:11] <verden01> hey BlackLabel 
[09:12] <BlackLabel> hey verden01
[09:13] <BlackLabel> i managed to get the bootsplash working
[09:13] <verden01> good
[09:14] <verden01> does it look good
[09:14] <BlackLabel> umm yea
[09:14] <verden01> cool
[09:14] <BlackLabel> u can change the background with any jpeg file
[09:14] <BlackLabel> im wondering if i should change to normal ubuntu
[09:14] <verden01> ok i haven't played with that yet
[09:14] <verden01> why?
[09:15] <BlackLabel> coz i saw a linux computer at uni with gnome and it looked real good
[09:15] <verden01> you could always have normal ubuntu and install kde-desktop and boot into gnome or kde
[09:15] <BlackLabel> im not sure though
[09:15] <BlackLabel> yea
[09:16] <BlackLabel> ill change over to kubuntu and see how much space i have left
[09:16] <verden01> well i still like kde better
[09:16] <BlackLabel> yea
[09:16] <verden01> youcan install gnome apps on kde
[09:16] <BlackLabel> yea i know
[09:16] <verden01> k
[09:17] <BlackLabel> but u ahve to install heaps of base gnome files to do it (unless u already have gnome installed)
[09:17] <BlackLabel> ill just change over to kubuntu bbs
[09:17] <underlord> im looking at getting a laptop, what brands do good (reliable, linux compat) laptops with lower end hardware (im thinking 2ghz cpu, maybe 512 megs ram, something around those specs), and recomendations?
[09:17] <verden01> i guess it depends on which apps you install
[09:18] <verden01> i have kubuntu and have installed Mozilla-firefox and Thunderbird
[09:19] <verden01> what about a DELL
[09:19] <verden01> they send out crap advertising all the time and a bloke at work has one and is quite happy with it
[09:20] <underlord> well, those guys are in to all the slave labour and shit, not sure id want to buy from them, and they seem to have a biz plan of pretending to be apple
[09:20] <verden01> if yougo to the TPG website i think they sell Laptops with AMD chips
[09:20] <underlord> ooooh
[09:20] <verden01> hahaha
[09:21] <verden01> apples are expensive
[09:21] <underlord> as in the isp?
[09:21] <verden01> in my APC magazine TPG advertise it   yes as in isp
[09:21] <verden01> in australia
[09:21] <underlord> im in aus :)
[09:22] <underlord> ooh, athlon 64
[09:22] <verden01> cool
[09:22] <verden01> yeah
[09:22] <verden01> i think pretty cheap as well
[09:23] <underlord> 64bit chips are fully backwards compat arnt they? if the amd 64 kernels arnt too stable yet i can run x86 instead?
[09:23] <verden01> they are 32 bit backwards compatable
[09:23] <verden01> i have an AMD 64 system and winxp works great
[09:24] <verden01> linux x86 works good as well on it
[09:24] <underlord> im thinking i want to buy from a shop that exists somewhere offline so i can whack a kubuntu live cd in and verify that everything works well though
[09:24] <underlord> verden02: win xp! trator!
[09:24] <underlord> :P
[09:24] <verden01> yeah that sounds like a good idea
[09:25] <underlord> ahh, tpg preinstalls win xp, i wonder if they do custom ones without it, i dont want to be paying for a win licence
[09:25] <verden01> TPG are advertising one in the APC mag for $1398
[09:26] <verden01> go to www.tpg.com.au/online
[09:26] <underlord> yeah, im looking at that now
[09:26] <verden01> you can only phone and ask i guess
[09:27] <underlord> well i dont really have the cash right now anyway, damn capitalists :P
[09:27] <verden01> it maybe cheaper with out XP home installed
[09:27] <verden01> lol
[09:27] <underlord> i had an awfull experience with a toshiba that broke down every 1-2 weeks, litteraly, so its taken this long for me to start to see that laptops arnt bad, toshiba is
[09:28] <verden01> if you work can yousalary sacrafice a laptop?
[09:28] <underlord> i work freelance at the moment, parents are supporting me
[09:28] <verden01> k
[09:29] <underlord> if im lucky i can get together enough for one of those amd 64 laptops in a coupple months
[09:30] <verden01> cool
[09:31] <verden01> how much are the amd 64 laptops
[09:31] <verden01> i'm downloading vmware how
[09:31] <verden01> to see if it works on kubuntu
[09:32] <underlord> well tpg has a amd 64 2700+ listed as $1398 aud, and a 2800+ as $1498
[09:33] <underlord> with win xp home, dvd burner, 60 gig hdd, 512 ram, and a pcmcia wifi nic
[09:33] <verden01> ok
[09:33] <BlackLabel> underlord: i've got an older version
[09:33] <BlackLabel> i've got amd athlon 2400
[09:33] <underlord> 64 bit?
[09:33] <BlackLabel> nah
[09:33] <verden01> BlackLabel, is the service from TPG good
[09:34] <BlackLabel> as an isp, no
[09:34] <BlackLabel> but didnt have too much trouble with getting the laptop
[09:34] <underlord> i have an amd 1600+ desktop, which im on right now
[09:34] <BlackLabel> i do have a big problem with heating problems
[09:34] <BlackLabel> i had to send it back while still under warranty (which STILL cost me $40+)
[09:34] <verden01> my amd 1800 desktop is just about had it but my amd 64 is great
[09:35] <BlackLabel> and i got it back and they didnt even fix it
[09:35] <verden01> just wondering what amd's are like in laptops?
[09:35] <underlord> couldnt underclock it?
[09:35] <BlackLabel> we got 2 other amds desktops in my house, a 2500 and a 2000 both working fine
[09:35] <underlord> my desktop's amd heats up to 80 degrees +
[09:35] <underlord> on a warm day
[09:35] <BlackLabel> never tried
[09:36] <underlord> its only ever crashed from the heat once, but i can imagine 80 degrees on your skin being quite painfull
[09:36] <verden01> my amd 64 runs about 56 C on a warm day but i have plenty of fans
[09:36] <BlackLabel> my laptop turns itself off if it dont have the laptop cooler underneath it
[09:36] <BlackLabel> i should've gotten myself an ibook instead
[09:37] <BlackLabel> underlord u wanna buy my laptop :) lol
[09:37] <verden01> ibooks and power macs would be good
[09:37] <underlord> maybe i should just get ripped off by apple then, get a cool computer (litteraly)
[09:37] <verden01> i think youcan even run kubuntuon a G4
[09:37] <BlackLabel> yep
[09:38] <verden01> hahahaha
[09:38] <BlackLabel> dunno why you'd want to though
[09:38] <verden01> get an amd
[09:38] <verden01> there cool
[09:38] <verden01> and intel are bringing out new 64 bit cpu's
[09:39] <verden01> brb
[09:39] <underlord> isnt the ia64 already out?
[09:40] <underlord> what is it that 64bit actualy does that a 32bit pc wouldn't? apart from handling numbers twice as long?
[09:43] <BlackLabel> how is openoffice like with converting a document made using OO.o Drawing to MS Word?
[09:50] <verden01> i don't use OO.o very much so i don't know
[09:50] <BlackLabel> ok
[09:50] <BlackLabel> just that i remembered i have to make a diagram in ms word 
[09:50] <BlackLabel> but i dun wanna go back to winblows
[09:51] <verden01> youcan use something like Crossover  or Win4Lin or vmware to use some windows apps
[09:51] <Tm_T> no no no
[09:52] <uniq> blacklabel: you can save as .doc, can't you? 
[09:52] <Tm_T> I don't need he need any windows apps
[09:52] <Tm_T> think
[09:52] <verden01> well he needs an answer to an OO.o question
[09:52] <Tm_T> yes
[09:52] <verden01> i can't answer it
[09:54] <verden01> sorry BlackLabel i assumed you were a male
[09:55] <Tm_T> :)
[09:56] <Alfred1881> what is the function of Basket in kde 3.4
[09:56] <verden01> what is Basker??
[09:56] <kakalto> yay for kubuntu
[09:56] <verden01> Basket
[09:57] <verden01> :)
[10:00] <verden01> so how many people dual boot with windows?
[10:01] <Alfred1881> yep
[10:01] <kakalto> likely quite a few
[10:01] <kakalto> especially the gamers
[10:01] <kakalto> especially the cheap gamers, rather
[10:01] <verden01> Alfred1881, have you been using Linux for long?
[10:01] <verden01> yeah gamers would
[10:02] <verden01> has anyone been having problems with kubuntu
[10:02] <verden01> kate crashes sometimes
[10:02] <Alfred1881> for about 5 months
[10:02] <verden01> k
[10:05] <Alfred1881> hey guys, is Basket necesarry in KDE3.4
[10:05] <verden01> what is  Basket?
[10:05] <verden01> i have never heard of it
[10:12] <verden01> anyone got some debian repositories enabled
[10:12] <verden01> with kubuntu
[10:13] <verden01> like testing or unstable
[10:13] <verden01> hey tinymac
[10:13] <mactiny> hi
[10:14] <mactiny> thats mactiny to you :)
[10:14] <verden01> been using kubuntu for long ?
[10:14] <verden01> :)
[10:14] <mactiny> oddly enough, i came here to see what was happening with kubuntu
[10:14] <verden01> are u a mac user
[10:15] <mactiny> windows, but i have ubuntu running aswell
[10:15] <mactiny> how would you rate kubuntu against ubuntu
[10:15] <verden01> well if you like linux and debian then kubuntu is great
[10:15] <verden01> i like th ekde desktop 
[10:16] <verden01> well you can install gnome apps in kde
[10:16] <mactiny> really
[10:16] <verden01> the only answer i can give you is that i have always liked kde better than gnome
[10:16] <mactiny> good to know
[10:16] <mactiny> i am a linuc novice
[10:17] <verden01> yes
[10:17] <verden01> k
[10:17] <verden01> thats good 
[10:17] <mactiny> hehe.. its quite funny really, ou seem so helpfull, but i dont really have any questions
[10:17] <verden01> have patience and learn to use it and you'll love it
[10:17] <mactiny> i do appreciate it though] 
[10:17] <verden01> i think kde is much easier than gnome for new users
[10:18] <verden01> thats cool
[10:18] <mactiny> thanks for the advice
[10:18] <mactiny> really?
[10:18] <mactiny> ill keep that in mind
[10:18] <_tek> i agree, since most people are coming from the windows world kde is a huge improvement 
[10:18] <verden01> but thats a personal preferance
[10:18] <mactiny> which apps dp you think are more polished
[10:18] <verden01> well i don't use windows much anymore 
[10:19] <mactiny> its strange that ubuntu chose to go the gnome route
[10:19] <verden01> but linux has some great apps when yo uknow whats what
[10:19] <mactiny> i have tried to switch a few times
[10:19] <verden01> ubuntu is gnome and kubuntu has the kde desktop 
[10:19] <_tek> there are lots, k3b is totally solid, konsole, konqueror, kontact..
[10:19] <_tek> all kde apps, all very polished.
[10:20] <verden01> if you want to install kde you muxt sudo apt-get install kde-desktop in a konsole
[10:20] <mactiny> the main thing which has stopped me is in south africa we mainly stuck with 56k
[10:20] <verden01> hey k3b is great
[10:20] <mactiny> and we have this strange dial up policy
[10:20] <verden01> same here in rural australia
[10:21] <Kamping_kaiser> yeh. same here for a while
[10:21] <Kamping_kaiser> semi-rural australia
[10:21] <_tek> yeah, that would be painful to do updates on linux over a dialup connection
[10:21] <jnoon> how would i go about re-installing all the base fonts?  i think some of mine arent working correctly cause im getting stange boxes... cant figure out how to fix it since i only know how to upgrade packages
[10:22] <mactiny> how it works is, we pay a set price for around 60 hours over the weekend, but you have to pay again every time you dial
[10:22] <mactiny> with the set fee being quite high
[10:22] <Kamping_Kaiser> jnoon use synaptic. does that work?
[10:22] <mactiny> so of course, driver related issues can get you
[10:22] <verden01> well i'm semi rural aust but telstra won't enable my exchange and sattellite is too expensive
[10:22] <mactiny> same here
[10:23] <mactiny> im thinking of immigrating to ausi in a few years
[10:23] <jnoon> Kamping_Kaiser, not sure what package is the base package for fonts?
[10:23] <_tek> that sucks.... im in california, guess we are pretty lucky in that respect
[10:23] <Kaiser_away> jnoon. not sure. search fonts.
[10:23] <Kaiser_away> bbl
[10:23] <mactiny> yeah ti does
[10:23] <verden01> i'm on a dialup plan with astratel for $7/month unlimited downloads and hours the best dialup plan in aust
[10:24] <BlackLabel> still thats not saying much lol
[10:24] <mactiny> very nice
[10:24] <mactiny> we pay around a dollar a dial
[10:24] <verden01> i do all my linux updatingg and upgrading on dialup and its a real pain in the arse
[10:24] <mactiny> us dollar that is
[10:25] <mactiny> you can onyl dial at night
[10:25] <verden01> its ok for you if you have broadband
[10:25] <mactiny> and on weekends
[10:25] <_tek> that sucks... while i am paying quite a bit each month we get serious bandwidth
[10:25] <verden01> Australian $
[10:25] <mactiny> or the price is around 50 cents a minute
[10:25] <BlackLabel> verden01: how did u get kubuntu?
[10:25] <mactiny> no us
[10:25] <mactiny> i downloaded it
[10:25] <mactiny> took me 60 hours
[10:26] <verden01> oh we have broadband in aust but just not everywhere
[10:26] <verden01> mainly in the cities
[10:26] <BlackLabel> verden01: how did u get kubuntu?
[10:26] <verden01> i downloaded from with my daughter's broadband connection
[10:26] <BlackLabel> ok
[10:26] <mactiny> i must remember to move to a city then :)
[10:26] <verden01> she's with dodo
[10:27] <_tek> holy cow...took me about 3 hours possibly less
[10:27] <verden01> hahaha
[10:27] <mactiny> which areas of oz do you think are the best
[10:27] <verden01> well aust is a huge place 
[10:27] <mactiny> main city's ?
[10:27] <verden01> and i live in the southern area but mostly its a beautiful place
[10:28] <mactiny> not talking of small towns
[10:28] <underlord> i dont like aus that much, although ive only been to sydney and adelade
[10:28] <verden01> any of them
[10:28] <verden01> i live in Adelaide but its one of the smaller capitol cities
[10:28] <verden01> Sydney is nice
[10:28] <mactiny> well i guess i must make sure the local rugby team is any good
[10:28] <verden01> to visit only
[10:28] <mactiny> oh ok
[10:28] <underlord> sydney stinks, too humid
[10:29] <verden01> i like a state called Queensland tho
[10:29] <verden01> will be at the Telstra dome next week to watch the footy  :)
[10:29] <mactiny> who is playing
[10:30] <verden01> aussie rules that is
[10:30] <mactiny> oh yes footy, thattle take some getting used to
[10:30] <verden01> aussie rules rocks 
[10:30] <verden01> Adelaide Crows vs Western Bulldogs
[10:30] <mactiny> im gonna have to start writing this stuff down :)
[10:31] <mactiny> which super twelve team you support
[10:31] <verden01> hey i'm outtsa here bye
[10:31] <verden01> outta
[10:32] <mactiny> well that ended fairly soon :)
[10:33] <netsniper> hi
[10:33] <mactiny> hi
[10:33] <netsniper> anyone know how to prevent boot delay when my eth0 is not plugged in?
[10:34] <Rickdangerous> netsniper, ctrl-c may help
[10:34] <_tek> not sure what your asking, you want the system to not boot if the system is not plugged into ethernet?
[10:34] <_tek> ahh.
[10:34] <_tek> get it.
[10:34] <netsniper> i want to reduce the delay
[10:35] <netsniper> like, in gentoo, there is a conf.d script that allows the timeout to be set on grabbing a DHCP address -- non in ubuntu i see...
[10:35] <_tek> ctrl-c might do it. sometimes it does depending on the process that is trying to start
[10:36] <netsniper> this is on bootup, so i dont have interactice support -- ie, dont  think kernel is accepting keysboard commands
[10:36] <_tek> i remember being told by someone you could setup services like say the time server to connect to 0.0.0.0 as the first time server. never tried it though
[10:36] <netsniper> time server?
[10:36] <_tek> ntp
[10:36] <netsniper> im talking about DHCP
[10:37] <netsniper> i want to reduce the delay so that DHCP times out earlier
[10:37] <_tek> i always set up my systems with a fixed IP. need to ssh into them all the time and it sucks if their ip is always changing
[10:38] <_tek> not sure, check out the dhcp scripts there has to be something in there.
[10:38] <netsniper> well, thats cool -- but i have a lappy and bring it all over the place :-)
[10:38] <netsniper> _tek, where are dhcp bootup scrupts located?
[10:38] <_tek> let me check, in etc but not sure exact.
[10:39] <netsniper> in gentoo is was under conf.d/net.eth0
[10:39] <netsniper> /etc/conf.d/net.eth0
[10:39] <netsniper> dont see this in ubuntu
[10:39] <_tek> always forget to escape that out
[10:40] <\sh> netsniper: /etc/network/interfaces
[10:40] <\sh> morning btw
[10:40] <netsniper> hehe, night tim for me :-)
[10:41] <_tek> \/etc/dhcp3/dhclient.conf
[10:41] <netsniper> havent gone to bed yet!
[10:41] <_tek> there is a timeout value in there.
[10:41] <_tek> im heading to bed to, was up till 6am last night working.
[10:41] <_tek> L8tr
[10:42] <netsniper> ahh think _tek nailed it
[10:42] <netsniper> this seems to be my solution!
[10:42] <whiskers> well i finally got something working for RAD on Ubuntu
[10:42] <netsniper> he left though...oh well
[10:43] <whiskers> I still don't have glom working but i did get pgaccess to work with pgadmin3 and this does make a nice RAD database design system for Linux
[10:44] <whiskers> there seems to be a missing initlocation command in ubuntu's deployment of postgresql....and i think this is what is causing glom to fail
[10:44] <whiskers> so ubuntu i fairly set to go...now for kubuntu..kexi is on the way and should work with mysql or postgresql
[10:45] <whiskers> so both bases should be covered shortly
[10:45] <whiskers> so for ubuntu we have abi, gnumeric, pgaccess, and gimpshop
[10:46] <whiskers> and for kubuntu there is koffice, kexi, and there is a kde version of gimp being done...i don't know if it is ready yet
[10:47] <whiskers> not bad for a free system
[10:50] <whiskers> and perhaps one day i may figure out how to get glom working...but for now pgaccess is in progress and working although the tk widgets look a little different than gnome but still i suppose ok
[10:52] <whiskers> so i guess it is time to clone a partition
[10:52] <whiskers> with Linux tools of course
[11:00] <underlord_lap> heey
[11:02] <underlord_lap> i have an existing ethernet network, what hardware is needed to bring a wifi device on to it?
[11:03] <whiskers> underlord, you may have to compile the kernel and see what drivers are available for some hardware wifis
[11:03] <whiskers> with linux you have to be selective....do a setup on the kernel and see what is supported
[11:04] <underlord_lap> no i mean like do i needa special router, that kind of thing
[11:04] <underlord_lap> not for nic support
[11:04] <whiskers> underlord, well there are wireless pci nic cards to go with wireless routers
[11:04] <whiskers> underlord, if that is what you are asking
[11:05] <whiskers> underlord, but before you purchase any of them....do a setup on the kernel to see what hardware is supported
[11:05] <underlord_lap> i allready have an ethernet router though, routers arnt cheap
[11:05] <whiskers> underlord, that is right...and i also have an ethernet router...so i don't care about wireless myself
[11:05] <whiskers> underlord, because i don't want to buy any more hardware
[11:05] <underlord_lap> oh, you neednic's that match routers brands
[11:06] <underlord_lap> grrr, damn laptopkeyboard
[11:06] <andrei> hello. can anyone provide me with a sample kderc file ? i just need the lines that specify the font settings. thanks
[11:07] <whiskers> andrei, those things should be adjustable in kde...and also there are many nice themes for kde
[11:07] <amu> andrei: just add an new local user and copy it from him
[11:07] <andrei> whiskers, i have only the kdelibs. kcontrol also does not work.i need to set up just the fonts, manualy. thank you
[11:10] <whiskers> andrei, oh..ok i see ..you did not fully install kde
[11:10] <andrei> whiskers, exactly
[11:11] <\sh> morning amu
[11:11] <whiskers> andrei, well i only installed qt3 on ubuntu because i needed it for one app....the rest i could do with latex, tcl/tk, and gnome
[11:11] <amu> \sh: moins 
[11:11] <whiskers> andrei, but for kubuntu ...personally i would install the full kde set
[11:12] <whiskers> andrei, because kde has a lot of nice apps...and consistent widgets
[11:14] <andrei> whiskers, personaly i like gnome's ui more. that's a matter of taste of course. i just need the kde libs for krusader (twin panel manager). the default kde fonts look very big. it is possible that the fonts settings are in another file, not in kderc.
[11:14] <whiskers> andrei, well if i recall you need more than that...i believe you need to recompile x with the xinerama extensions
[11:15] <\sh> grmpf I screwed my network configuration :(
[11:15] <whiskers> andrei, if you want two monitors or something like that
[11:15] <whiskers> andrei, i don't know that stuff is weird to me so i don't bother with xinerama myself
[11:15] <uniq> whiskers: isn't x buildt with xinerama support? 
[11:15] <andrei> whiskers, i don't think it is that complicated
[11:15] <andrei> whiskers, it is a matter of changing Sans 12 with Sans 8
[11:16] <whiskers> andrei, it is not complicated...you just have to track down all the source code for all the extension libraries
[11:16] <andrei> whiskers, :)
[11:16] <whiskers> andrei, sometimes that can be difficult...for example i had some trouble tracking down some net streaming source code for video
[11:17] <whiskers> andrei, when i was compiling transcode
[11:17] <whiskers> andrei, but it just depends on what you want to do
[11:19] <whiskers> andrei, personally i don't even bother with transcode....but it was a challenge to find all the sources to compile it correctly...much like glom was
[11:19] <andrei> whiskers, k
[11:21] <whiskers> andrei, if i could run across a cheap hub i might like to interface into and check out INTERNET 2..
[11:21] <whiskers> andrei, but most people don't know about it anyway
[11:23] <whiskers> andrei, so i don't really know if it is even worth checking out...because the cost of the extremely fast bandwidth is too high for me
[11:23] <\sh> andrei: i would install kcontrol additionally
[11:23] <andrei> whiskers, i see
[11:23] <\sh> andrei: so u get rid of your font problems
[11:24] <andrei> \sh, done that already. but kcontrol has no modules loaded in the left panel
[11:28] <\sh> andrei: check /usr/lib/kde3/kcm_fontinst*
[11:29] <andrei> \sh, don't have that file
[11:30] <andrei> \sh, maybe that't what i'm looking for. does it have font settings in it ? can you paste me the text ?
[11:31] <\sh> andrei: these are the font modules for kcontrol, but u should have them, cause they're in kcontrol package
[11:31] <andrei> \sh, strange
[11:31] <\sh> andrei: problem is for krusader, u can't set fonts separatly for it..
[11:32] <andrei> \sh, yes. i have uninstalled kcontrol.
[11:32] <\sh> andrei: install it :)
[11:33] <andrei> \sh, i'll reinstall it. maybe works this time
[11:34] <andrei> \sh, i can't belive it. works noe
[11:35] <andrei> \sh, problem solved. thank you v much. also thank you whiskers
[11:39] <\sh> andrei: you're welcome
[11:47] <Vorik> hi all
[11:48] <Vorik> I've got a question: Sometimes, i've got to dial into my work network. Everytime, i've got a different password. Is there something nifty (graphical) where I can configure such a connection and start it when it is needed?
[11:49] <Vorik> I use ISDN for it.
[11:51] <ikama> Hi all
[11:51] <ikama> Did anybody have the same prob with kuser it crashes everytime?
[11:51] <ikama> It is very urgent, please
[11:52] <Vorik> No, i dont.. No problems
[11:52] <Vorik> you could use webmin or the command line utils as a workaround
[11:53] <ikama> I am not a newby, but I have tried so many things
[11:54] <Vorik> you're up to date with the software packages?
[11:54] <whiskers> ikama, maybe it needs to be recompiled with the latest kde libs
[11:54] <Vorik> just update everything with synaptic of kynaptic
[11:54] <Vorik> i meant or
[11:55] <Vorik> you've tried the command-line utils then? or webmin?
[11:56] <whiskers> Vorik, how do you access webmin
[11:56] <whiskers> Vorik, if it is running as a proces on the local machine
[11:56] <Vorik> 1) you change the default root password with 'sudo passwd'
[11:57] <Vorik> 2) you install webmin with synaptic or kynaptic 
[11:57] <Vorik> 3) install also the modules you need (core and....)
[11:57] <whiskers> Vorik, how do you access it...with a browser on a specific port or what
[11:57] <Vorik> yeah
[11:57] <Vorik> https://localhost:10000
[11:58] <chx_> Welcome. I put my HDD into machine. Was unable to boot from USB :(
[11:59] <Vorik> i've got to feed my kids, it's noon here.
[11:59] <Vorik> is it working whiskers?
[11:59] <whiskers> Vorik, hey that is very nice..but i had to use root to access it
[11:59] <whiskers> Vorik, what about usermin...how do you access that if it is running
[11:59] <Vorik> that's correct
[12:00] <Vorik> it's an icon in webmin i think
[12:01] <Vorik> in webmin, tab system -> users and groups
[12:01] <Vorik> i'm off for now, talk to you later..
[12:01] <whiskers> Vorik, yes i see webmin users....this looks dangerous...i am glad i am behind a firewall
[12:02] <Vorik> :) all is encrypted and safe behind your password
[12:02] <whiskers> Vorik, it seems there is an option to allow all users to access it
[12:02] <whiskers> Vorik, it seems dangerous to employ in practice
[12:03] <Vorik> the attacker still needs a valid account on the server and i think only root has the rights to change stuff
[12:03] <whiskers> Vorik, yes but anything can be hacked
[12:04] <whiskers> Vorik, i don't use servers anymore....i would rather place a doc or file on p2p and avoid paying DNS registration fees
[12:04] <whiskers> Vorik, the only server i need is the database server to have something comparable to MS Access
[12:06] <ikama> ok thanks
[12:12] <rrichie> hi all
[12:12] <rrichie> i'm trying  kubuntu but i have a problem : when i try modprobe ndiswrapper it says "Operation not permitted". Anyone has an idea ?
[12:13] <whiskers> rrichie, yes there are some permissions problems in ubuntu and you do have to take some time to reset some folders, files, and devices to get things working...but it is not too hard
[12:13] <\sh> sudo modprobe ndiswrapper
[12:14] <rrichie> whiskers : do you know a good tutorial on it?
[12:15] <whiskers> rrichie, it is very easy...you don't need a tutorial....just think this way...set permissions for groups and then include members in the group and they will have those permisssions
[12:15] <whiskers> rrichie, you don't need a book....gnome has in the system menu users and groups
[12:15] <whiskers> rrichie, and kde also has this stuff
[12:16] <rrichie> ok thanks
[12:16] <rrichie> thx for the help
[12:16] <rrichie> bye
[12:36] <kakalto> good night, #kubuntu
[12:38] <leafw> Hi. Did anyone succeed in connection to an airport base station using the kwifimanager?
[12:51] <d> How do I get HID support working under Hoary? As root I tried 'modprobe hid' and it says module doesn't exist...
[12:54] <jiger> hello all just installed kubuntu....and have a few questions hope to get them answered
[12:55] <jiger> how do I change my init level to start my comp first to console mode so that I can type startx if I want to start kde?
[12:56] <alfons> Hi guys; for some reason I can't install gtk+
[12:57] <alfons> I tried to install all the libraries etc... needed; but I installed a glib version which was too old; then I upgraded it to a new one, but it doesn't work. How do I remove the old glib version?
[12:59] <yuxel`> jiger: update-rc.d kdm remove
[12:59] <yuxel`> will remove kdm from startup
[01:00] <jiger> yuxel: and next time one never start by default?
[01:00] <yuxel`> yes
[01:01] <jiger> ok sorry for bothering coz just installed a fresh system and new to ubuntu 
[01:01] <yuxel`> in ubuntu you have to change gmd with kdm
[01:02] <jiger> one morething. I create a partion of 2g for / and rest around 14G for /use wud it create any problems?
[01:02] <jiger> I am using Kubuntu. Can't live without kde
[01:02] <jiger> 14G for /usr
[01:03] <jiger> I got a couple of problems when doing man <somecommand> that /tmp is full can't tar blah blah....
[01:03] <jiger> just wanted to verify if this partioning schema is ok?
[01:05] <jiger> how do I enable <Win> key to popup KDE menu?
[01:21] <alfons> Any ideas about the gtk+ problem?
[01:32] <sdogi> hi kubuntus :)
[01:36] <chx_> hi. which is the preferred MP3 player for Shoutcast (streamed mp3)?
[01:38] <sdogi> use whatever you like
[01:38] <sdogi> i guess using xmms would be easy
[01:40] <chx_> beep-media-player then
[01:41] <chx_> i just thought I'd not use a gtk applet under kde
[01:41] <chx_> np
[02:35] <gds> Hi everybody
[02:36] <gds> Why are Openoffice's caracters very awful in kde? 
[02:38] <gdh> ha I thought I'd written things without me knowing :)
[02:38] <gdh> alter-ego at work
[02:45] <_tom> hi
[03:04] <_membreya> hi _tom 
[04:06] <mose> yo
[04:08] <wirwzd> oy
[04:09] <Maffen> hello
[04:10] <Maffen> I have installed Kubuntu now
[04:10] <Maffen> but i have a strange error
[04:10] <Maffen> if i wnat in control center to administrator mode
[04:10] <Maffen> he askes a pass, i give root pass, he doesn't accept it
[04:10] <Maffen> if i co in Konsole, and I do su root
[04:10] <Maffen> and give that same pass
[04:10] <Maffen> he accept it... :/
[04:11] <Maffen> How can i go now in Administrator mode?
[04:11] <richardeduardo> ji
[04:12] <richardeduardo> I dont can't install Amsn
[04:12] <richardeduardo> help me
[04:12] <wirwzd> Maffen: Try entering your users password instead of roots
[04:14] <Maffen> Strange, now if i push administrator Mode button, i get an error : "Su returned with an error" :/
[04:16] <wirwzd> Maffen: Does sudo work for you?
[04:16] <Maffen> nope :/
[04:17] <wirwzd> Maffen: kconrol/kdesu  is tied into sudo I believe
[04:17] <Maffen> maffen is not in the sudoers file.  This incident will be reported.
[04:17] <Maffen> hmmmz
[04:17] <wirwzd> Maffen: is your user in the admin group
[04:17] <Maffen> no idea :(
[04:17] <wirwzd> Maffen: type id 
[04:18] <Maffen> maffen@stacker:/usr/src$ id
[04:18] <Maffen> uid=1000(maffen) gid=1000(maffen) groepen=4(adm),20(dialout),24(cdrom),25(floppy),29(audio),30(dip),44(video),46(plugdev),107(lpadmin),108(scanner),1000(maffen)
[04:20] <wirwzd> Maffen: as root type "vigr" next to "admin:x:109" it should say :<your user>" Example: "admin:x:109:myusername"
[04:22] <amu> visudo is your friend
[04:23] <Maffen> there is no admin group :)
[04:23] <Maffen> amu: i just did this, but must i restart something now?
[04:23] <wirwzd> Maffen: tha use visudo to add your user to the sudoers file
[04:23] <amu> Maffen: ^^ add your new user with visudo 
[04:24] <Maffen> ok
[04:24] <Maffen> it works :))
[04:24] <Maffen> thx all :)
[04:30] <Bicchi> i have dual monitors and instead of seeing a big desktop i get a cloned monitor ?
[04:32] <amu> ?
[04:33] <mose> use xinerama ?
[04:36] <Maffen> strange
[04:36] <Maffen> my grub is installed on /dev/hda, not on /dev/sda
[04:37] <Maffen> how can i change that?
[04:39] <amu> vi /boot/grub/menu ?
[04:43] <Maffen> no, i mean, the grub bootloader is now on /dev/hda, but it must be on /dev/sda
[04:43] <Maffen> because my sata-disk is first boot disk, then /dev/hda
[04:43] <Maffen> so, i want that the bootloader on my sata disk :)
[04:44] <membreya> from a konsole type sudo grub
[04:44] <segfault2k> hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii :D
[04:45] <Maffen> membreya: and then? :s
[04:46] <membreya> grub> root (hd0,2)
[04:46] <membreya> grub> setup (hd0)
[04:46] <membreya> grub> quit
[04:46] <membreya> or root (hd0,0) if it's on the first partition
[04:46] <membreya> generally 0,0
[04:49] <Maffen> maffen@stacker:/usr/src$ id
[04:49] <Maffen> uid=1000(maffen) gid=1000(maffen) groepen=4(adm),20(dialout),24(cdrom),25(floppy),29(audio),30(dip),44(video),46(plugdev),107(lpadmin),108(scanner),1000(maffen)
[04:49] <Maffen> shit, wrong paste
[04:49] <Maffen> :p
[04:50] <membreya> dher ;)
[04:50] <Maffen> grub> root (hd2,0)
[04:50] <Maffen>  Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0x7
[04:50] <membreya> dh2? :|
[04:50] <membreya> why hd2
[04:50] <membreya> if your SATA is your first drive..shouldn't it be hd0
[04:50] <Artimus> Kubuntu isn't far behind of Ubuntu package wise, is it?  Or does it use the same mirrors?
[04:51] <Maffen> if i check /boot/grub/menu, is everything on hd2 (windows and linux)
[04:51] <Maffen> membreya: it's 3Th Master
[04:51] <membreya> :| got me stumped then
[04:51] <Maffen> but with hd0 i get the same error
[04:53] <Maffen> all linux distro's want to install there bootloader in /dev/hda
[04:53] <Maffen> in fedora i can change it, but in kubuntu i didn't find it
[04:53] <segfault2k> grub-install /dev/hdX
[04:54] <segfault2k> easy
[04:54] <Maffen> lol
[04:54] <Maffen> thx :)
[04:54] <Maffen> will test it
[05:11] <ricka> hi
[05:11] <ricka> I'm trying to play a dvd with vlc
[05:11] <ricka> I've followed the steps on http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-12988.html
[05:12] <ricka> but vlc crashes with
[05:12] <ricka> libdvdread: CHECK_VALUE failed in ifo_read.c:1522
[06:21] <jief> hi
[06:22] <uniq> hello.
[06:22] <Niki> moin
[06:22] <jief> i'm trying to use amarok with the arts engine, but it keeps segfaulting. is there a way to fix this?
[06:23] <uniq> jief: my amarok works fine with arts.. so it is possible, but i've had no problems with it either.
[06:25] <jief> i guess ill stick to xmms
[06:25] <uniq> you can search the forums at http://ubuntuforums.org
[06:34] <glass-eye> wow, amorak takes up TONS of resources
[06:38] <sdogi> cool
[06:39] <Niki> but which player shell i use then?
[06:39] <Niki> glass-eye?
[06:39] <sdogi> what player do you want
[06:39] <Niki> amorak is fine, with the global shortcuts ... but it's quite slow
[06:40] <sdogi> thats odd, i thought kde stuff(that uses qt, which is cool and fast) should be pretty fast
[06:40] <sdogi> but never tried amorak 
[06:41] <sdogi> have no need
[06:41] <Niki> what do you use?
[06:41] <sdogi> for music?
[06:41] <sdogi> xmms
[06:41] <\sh> amarok has problems with icecast servers and basic auth :(
[06:41] <Niki> hm
[06:41] <sdogi> or mplayer
[06:42] <Niki> are ther global shortcuts for xmms?
[06:42] <sdogi> what are global shortcuts?
[06:42] <sdogi> symlinks?
[06:42] <Niki> u do not need to change the window or dektop to controll the program
[06:43] <sdogi> like some controls on panel?
[06:43] <Niki> e.g. shortcuts for next song and so on
[06:43] <sdogi> there should be such things
[06:44] <Niki> no, not in the panel. Hotkeys!
[06:44] <sdogi> check under hotkeys then
[06:45] <sdogi> there are examples even for that thing
[06:46] <glass-eye> i like beep-media-player
[06:46] <glass-eye> updated xmms 
[06:46] <Niki> may be i should try that one
[06:46] <glass-eye> Niki: i had something like that setup under kahakai, but i am not sure if you can do stuff like that under KDE, i'd like to know how though
[06:47] <Niki> never heard of kahakai, sry
[06:48] <sdogi> Niki: also there is something like xmms-kde, but i have no idea what it is
[06:51] <Niki> ok. thanks. i'll try beep later. as long as i don't change tracks too fast amarok works fine
[06:52] <sdogi> beep-media-player.. lol
[07:03] <whiskey_2> has anybody compiled f4l on kubuntu....i compiled it on ubuntu but the fonts are small....i wonder what they look like on kubuntu
[07:03] <niskin> how can I restart me Konqueror - or make a new conf ?
[07:03] <sdogi> under .kde
[07:03] <whiskey_2> i am wondering if f4l was written to use the kde font system instead of gnome font system
[07:05] <whiskey_2> but seriously this could be a moot issue today since many people are installing the flash blocker for firefox
[08:05] <whiskey_1> well at least the flash blocker appears to be working on slashdot....no longer have to watch the annoying graphics
[08:06] <whiskey_1> and since millions of people are installing the flash blocker extension for firefox...i doubt many people will see the flash stuff at all on slashdot
[08:35] <whiskey_1> what a strange thing...i compiled firefox 1.03...and the flash part of slashdot looks different and appears to be some kind of hyperlink to somewhere else
[08:35] <whiskey_1> this stuff is so strange
[08:36] <whiskey_1> where there was a flash animation on slashdot....now there is some kind of hyperlink to rackspace.....really wierd
[08:38] <whiskey_1> i am going to see what epiphany shows.
[08:38] <buz> thats because the banners are dynamic
[08:38] <buz> not all of them are flash
[08:38] <whiskey_1> but how can you see different things at the same location depending on just which version of a browser you use
[08:41] <whiskey_1> oh great now epiphany doesn't work...it appears to be missing a library now called libgtkembedmoz.so
[08:41] <whiskey_1> this linux stuff can really be frustrating sometimes
[08:45] <whiskey_2> well one thing nice about 1.0.3 is that if you right click you do get some print options
[08:47] <whiskey_2> and adblock and flash block still appear to be working in 1.0.3
[08:48] <whiskey_2> i see the flash block blocking the flash section at www.msn.com
[08:49] <whiskey_2> as for slashdot...i dont even know where the flash stuff went
[08:50] <whiskey_2> and the java stuff at www.ubuntu.org in the little scrolling text applet is also working
[08:58] <buz> so where can we get 1.0.3 for ubuntu?
[09:04] <whiskey_2> buz,  i got it at www.mozilla.oorg
[09:04] <whiskey_2> .org
[09:04] <whiskey_2> but you need to know to install to /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox
[09:04] <buz> mhh i'm to lazy for thath
[09:05] <buz> im gonna wait
[09:05] <whiskey_2> so you don't have two copies of the same browser laying around
[09:05] <whiskey_2> buz, well really doesn't seem to make too much difference here except on the slashdot page...but i haven't looked around very much with it
[09:08] <buz> i'm more interested in the security fixes
[09:09] <buz> gecko probably didnt get too much changes
[09:10] <whiskey_2> buz, well i am upset that firefox broke epiphany...now i have to go dig for the old library that is now missing
[09:10] <whiskey_2> buz, but anyway...after 11 years...well linux is starting to work
[09:11] <whiskey_2> buz, but still has lots of problems to be solved
[09:12] <whiskey_2> buz, i doubt gecko changed very much...because it is so tied to graphics stuff....but really who knows
[09:15] <SpookyET> Why is linux taking so much memory?
[09:15] <SpookyET> it's eating over 400 MiB.
[09:15] <SpookyET> Windows XP barely goes above 250 MiB.
[09:17] <whiskey_2> SpookyET, well i have been watching system monitor for days and mine is only taking 130 megs
[09:17] <whiskey_2> SpookyET, but i have a small system this time...not like my gentoo installation
[09:17] <SpookyET> small system?
[09:17] <whiskey_2> SpookyET, yes let me give you the specs
[09:18] <whiskey_2> SpookyET, now i am only using 10gigs whereas with gentoo i was at 80 gigs
[09:18] <SpookyET> 80 GiGs of what?
[09:18] <whiskey_2> SpookyET, code, programs, and libraries
[09:19] <SpookyET> damn
[09:19] <SpookyET> I got KDE and Gnome installed, and a few apps.
[09:20] <whiskey_2> SpookyET, well be sure to test your Logitech Wingman on the free defendguin ...just to be sure your kernel is working
[09:20] <SpookyET> I like gnome's Clearlooks (it's a ripoff of OpusOS 1.5, which I always liked), but I like KDE overall.
[09:21] <whiskey_2> SpookyET, yes...well it has always been a tough choice...because there are pluses and minuses for each one
[09:21] <SpookyET> I'm sure someone will port clear looks.  
[09:21] <SpookyET> The good thing now is GTK-QT.
[09:24] <whiskey_2> SpookyET, well i dont know if Gtk and Qt will be used much longer now that wxwindows widgets are free
[09:24] <whiskey_2> SpookyET, but anyway there is a cross to gtk wrapper for wxwidgets
[09:24] <SpookyET> wxWindows uses GTK.  However, it's event model is stupid.
[09:30] <SpookyET> was it so hard to write something like button.Click += EventHandler(pFunction*)
[09:31] <whiskey_2> SpookyET, hey...maybe you can improve it and start a revolution
[09:37] <pvh> Hi guys! I'm trying to switch from Evolution to Kontact, and when I imported my mail it brought all the spam with it.
[09:38] <SpookyET> hahahah
[09:38] <pvh> Is there some way I can run my spam filters on existing folders in Kontact? (I didn't see anything in the manual, and google so far hasn't turned up anything.)
[09:38] <SpookyET> You want mail discrimination?
[09:38] <pvh> SpookyET: I'm not entirely sure what you you mean by that.
[09:39] <pvh> SpookyET: I have run the Anti-Spam wizard, and yes, I would like to separate spam from ham.
[09:39] <pvh> SpookyET: All that looks like it should run fine for fresh mail. My problem right now is that I need to run it on my existing body of mail.
[09:39] <pvh> s/need/want/
[09:42] <SpookyET> I'm using GMAIL, so I don't have the luxury of using a mail clien.
[09:42] <pvh> I'd say Gmail is a fairly luxurious mail client.
[09:43] <SpookyET> It does not work in Konqueror.
[09:45] <pvh> Drag, man.
[09:45] <pvh> I don't work in Konqueror either.
[09:45] <pvh> Mostly because it lacks almost all of the features I use.
[09:45] <pvh> Kinda feels like using IE, actually.
[09:47] <mactiny> hi guys
[09:47] <mactiny> does anyone hear know anything about speech synthesis
[09:47] <SpookyET> I mounted a windows partition as root, and it pisses me off
[09:47] <mactiny> here*
[09:47] <mactiny> has anyojne tried ksayit
[09:48] <SpookyET> i did chwon and chmod, but i still cant access it without root
[09:48] <whiskey_2> mactiny, well i was playing with a gnome speech app on gentoo called festival....but it gave me some problems
[09:48] <whiskey_2> mactiny, so i did not compile all that gnome speech stuff this time
[09:48] <mactiny> what was the quality like
[09:48] <whiskey_2> mactiny, well the sound was understandable...but the program would freeze
[09:49] <whiskey_2> mactiny, and i got tired of having to open a virtual teminal to get rid of it
[09:49] <mactiny> how would u compare the sound quality to the defualt windows xp voices
[09:49] <mactiny> can imagine
[09:49] <whiskey_2> mactiny, i don't know anythng about XP except it is very very expensive
[09:50] <mactiny> i am hoping to jump again over to ubuntu from windows
[09:50] <whiskey_2> mactiny, so i cannot tell you anything about XP...i just keep an old win98 because it was a sunk cost
[09:50] <mactiny> but i of course have the p[roblem being reliant on it for my studies
[09:50] <mactiny> would you think the quality would be fine for continued listening
[09:50] <whiskey_2> mactiny, well that is a serious problem then....can you afford all that expensive MS stuff
[09:51] <mactiny> hehe.. well i can get it without spending any money
[09:51] <mactiny> its mostly a problem of.. is their a suitable replacement
[09:52] <mactiny> how easy would it be to run winodws apps on kubuntu... if there is no solution
[09:52] <whiskey_2> mactiny, well i installed wine to test it...but i don't know how ubuntu configures it or even how to use it
[09:53] <whiskey_2> mactiny, just seemed to be a bunch of dlls as far as i could tell
[09:53] <mactiny> really
[09:53] <mactiny> which distro would you think i should go for
[09:53] <mactiny> off your head
[09:53] <whiskey_2> mactiny, i don't really need it since i keep an old win98 machine
[09:54] <whiskey_2> mactiny, depends on who you are and what size hard drive you wish to buy
[09:54] <mactiny> i have a forty gig
[09:54] <mactiny> which i could split in two
[09:54] <whiskey_2> mactiny, if you are an expert with a 120gig hard drive...then i say gentoo
[09:54] <mactiny> should be enough
[09:54] <mactiny> why does it take so much
[09:55] <mactiny> its only two cd's
[09:55] <kunta> hi, what did you do with are your fonts?  My fonts are steel ugly :(
[09:55] <whiskey_2> mactiny, but if you are a normal person...with 40gig...then perhaps ubuntu or mepis or something like that
[09:55] <mactiny> what is the reason for the size
[09:55] <whiskey_2> mactiny, and if you have a very small system...then damn small linux or LFS
[09:57] <mactiny> this is a noob question.. but are different distro's particular on which programs run on them
[09:57] <mactiny> should i expect wine to work
[09:57] <buz> depends
[09:57] <whiskey_2> mactiny, not really...you can always go get the source code and compile all the libraries you want for the apps you want
[09:57] <mactiny> on ubuntu/kubuntu
[09:57] <buz> i've come to not expect it to
[09:57] <buz> and be pleasantly surprised when it does
[09:57] <whiskey_2> mactiny, i don't know..because i don't know how to test this installation of wine
[09:58] <sdogi> anyone knows how to install java plugin for mozilla?
[09:58] <mactiny> buz do you know fo a quality speach systhesis app for linux
[09:58] <kunta> it's simply
[09:58] <whiskey_2> sdogi, yes it is very easy...at least for firefox
[09:58] <buz> no
[09:58] <whiskey_2> mactiny, there are several...festival is only one
[09:58] <whiskey_2> mactiny, i looked at several but i gave up for now
[09:59] <buz> (i haven't yet come across a quality one on ANY platform)
[09:59] <mactiny> lol
[09:59] <mactiny> good point
[09:59] <buz> for english, it sounds like robots
[09:59] <mactiny> but which ones would you say are the best'
[09:59] <buz> for any other language, forget it
[09:59] <mactiny> indeed
[09:59] <buz> i can't really be bothered about it
[09:59] <larkhill> RealPlayer on  Konqueror anyone - cook.so.6.0 error
[09:59] <buz> turned it off quickly on osx
[09:59] <whiskey_2> sdogi, but be sure to make a symlink...don't put the java lib in firefox directory or it won't work
[09:59] <mactiny> buz you should look at neospeech .. do a google on it.. you will be suprized how far it has come
[10:00] <whiskey_2> sdogi, so remember that...it took me hours to figure it out
[10:00] <mactiny> there is a online test
[10:01] <buz> mhh suxors
[10:01] <buz> it creates wma files
[10:01] <mactiny> oops
[10:01] <mactiny> sorry abotu that
[10:01] <buz> and i cant even dl em
[10:02] <larkhill> second quick question, anyone here from the NW in the UK?
[10:02] <whiskey_2> mactiny, you see...Linux is like one million Lego pieces and you need to know all of them and which ones to put together to get what you want done
[10:03] <mactiny> frustrating
[10:03] <mactiny> and they say its as easy as windows
[10:04] <buz> it's easier in some ways
[10:04] <buz> it doesnt need anti spyware measures
[10:05] <buz> in other ways, it's a pain
[10:05] <mactiny> lol
[10:05] <mactiny> the first honest opinion i have ever heard
[10:05] <mactiny> on linux
[10:05] <buz> that's because i don't think linux is the end all be all
[10:06] <buz> all os have advantages and disadvantages (even OSX, and no, not just the fact that it wont run on cheap hardware ;-)
[10:06] <mactiny> amazing.. intelligent life is on this earth
[10:06] <buz> hehe thanks
[10:07] <mactiny> ill get kubuntu as a toy
[10:07] <buz> actually, most people in here will agree
[10:07] <mactiny> and go from there
[10:07] <buz> most other linux channels arent that sane i've found
[10:07] <whiskey_2> mactiny, it is more than a toy if you make use of the dev stuff in synaptic
[10:07] <buz> yeah i've been using it as my SOLE workstation for 4 weeks now
[10:07] <mactiny> in nearly ever search on the subject.. i have found the opinion to be irritatingly one sided
[10:07] <buz>  no trouble aside some media player weirdnesses
[10:08] <mactiny> ill use it as a toy untill i feel that all my needs are met
[10:08] <buz> well the mad zealots are naturally the loudest
[10:08] <mactiny> im bound to swop over at some point
[10:08] <mactiny> indeed
[10:08] <buz> i decided to do it now seeing that w2k support will end in summer
[10:08] <buz> ventured into osx territory but didn't like it so much
[10:09] <mactiny> i tried osx last week
[10:09] <buz> too much stuff it does on its own without letting me say what i want
[10:09] <buz> sure, it's pretty
[10:09] <mactiny> came to the same dconclusion
[10:09] <mactiny> always felt like i needed to be smiling ewhen i used it
[10:09] <buz> and it's easy to use for your mum (in fact both my parents use osx machines, dream come true, never had to fix a single box since)
[10:09] <mactiny> yes.. it has its advantages
[10:09] <buz> but for people who like to customize their box to their ways, it's not really suited so much
[10:10] <buz> so for the enthusiasts: kubuntu, for the masses: osx
[10:10] <mactiny> i tend to spend most of my time doing just that
[10:10] <buz> yeah
[10:10] <mactiny> seems right to me
[10:10] <buz> with ibooks for 1000$ and mac mini at 500$ nobody can claim macs are too expensive
[10:10] <mactiny> how much of the standard kde stuff comes with ubuntu
[10:10] <buz> most
[10:10] <buz> the other you can install from the repositories
[10:11] <mactiny> true.. but being a south african the exchage rate makes macs slightly over priced for me
[10:11] <mactiny> normally twice the price of pc's
[10:11] <buz> mhh in europe it ain't quite as bad
[10:11] <buz> i can get mac minis for about 600$
[10:11] <mactiny> not to bad
[10:11] <buz> which is decent enough after figuring in that i need to pay vat and customs
[10:11] <mactiny> where you from
[10:11] <buz> switzerland
[10:11] <mactiny> aah
[10:11] <mactiny> very nice
[10:11] <buz> as a student i can even get them damn near 500$
[10:12] <mactiny> i have been venturing into this language "crusade"..
[10:12] <buz> but after figuring that it can't be convinced to do dual head, i didnt want a mini
[10:12] <mactiny> so i am fascinated by all things culture/langauge
[10:12] <buz> personally, i never quite got the linguist fascination. but that's just me i guess ;-)
[10:13] <mactiny> :)
[10:13] <mactiny> well when i read about a guy who could speak 28 langauges it kind griped me
[10:13] <buz> i write near perfect german (natively) and pretty good english, but on the meta level, i don't care about language
[10:13] <buz> to me languages are a tool
[10:13] <mactiny> what languages can you speak
[10:13] <buz> german (native), english and a wee bit of french
[10:14] <mactiny> well they are. but i also see them as a portal into a culture
[10:14] <buz> i sorta understand dutch (its mostly a cross breed between english and german anyway)
[10:14] <buz> i've been thinking about learning chinese but it's f***** hard
[10:14] <mactiny> me to.. i speak afrikaans.. which is mostly dutch.. some german
[10:14] <mactiny> hoe gaan dit
[10:14] <flammenbringer> dutch is just a german dialect
[10:14] <flammenbringer> :p
[10:15] <buz> not really
[10:15] <buz> swiss german is a dialect
[10:15] <buz> or austrian
[10:15] <buz> dutch is much more different
[10:15] <mactiny> i would think they are completely different
[10:15] <buz> yeah
[10:15] <buz> more like german/english
[10:16] <buz> if you know both, you can guestimate what the dutch are saying
[10:16] <mactiny> im thinking of spanish and french to start off with
[10:16] <buz> but that's about it
[10:16] <buz> maybe spanish italian
[10:16] <smouche> mactiny -- I've been reading your comments on speech synthesis with interest
[10:16] <mactiny> good.. please tell
[10:16] <smouche> I've been really frustrated with how little there is to choose
[10:16] <smouche> in this area, whatever the os
[10:16] <mactiny> indeed
[10:17] <mactiny> should be higher on people priority
[10:17] <smouche> I've heard fantastic demos online, that's it
[10:17] <buz> mhh most people have very little use for it
[10:17] <mactiny> i got at&t's offering today
[10:17] <flammenbringer> buz: well, dutch has exactly the same grammar as german. the words are almost identical, it's only spoken differently
[10:17] <buz> its mostly the blind that need it
[10:17] <mactiny> quite good
[10:17] <smouche> it seems that the best speech synthesis stuff is only available, if at all, as 
[10:17] <mactiny> there is quite a need for students
[10:17] <buz> but most people with halfway acceptable eyesight read faster than they can hear stuff
[10:17] <smouche> expensive embedded apps for kiosk setups and so forth
[10:18] <mactiny> basically.. anyone interested in aduo books
[10:18] <whiskey_2> linux does use a little more memory than my win98....win98 runs 81 megs constantly...and linux runs 130 megs for the basics
[10:18] <buz> that would require FUCKING good synthesis then
[10:18] <whiskey_2> and the 81 megs is without posgres or mysql running
[10:18] <buz> else its even worse than your garden variety lecture by a professor
[10:18] <mactiny> did you try the neospeech voices i recommended
[10:18] <buz> as i said, it wont work on firefox here
[10:19] <smouche> I found a quite good one for french called kali, years ago.  it was a crippled demo though
[10:19] <whiskey_2> but linux doesn't really use significantly more memory...there is not that much difference between 81 megs and 130 megs
[10:19] <mactiny> they could be used to learn languages to
[10:19] <mactiny> im currently studying a theology degree
[10:20] <mactiny> and i have need to memorize large portions of the bible
[10:20] <mactiny> verses mostly
[10:20] <smouche> whiskey_2, I think linux, with kde does use more memory- but it uses it so much more efficiently than windows
[10:20] <buz> mhh depends
[10:20] <smouche> that it makes a little memory seem like a lot more...
[10:20] <buz> xorg currently uses 150m according to top ;-)
[10:20] <whiskey_2> smouche, what is kde using now...on gnome it is about 130 megs
[10:20] <smouche> let me check...
[10:21] <whiskey_2> and win98 is about 81 megs
[10:21] <buz>  7017 root      15   0  156m  89m 4488 S  6.3  8.8   8:39.36 Xorg
[10:21] <whiskey_2> buz, yes ok..a little more not too much....i think for most people 256meg stick should cover it...except in rare cases
[10:21] <mactiny> smouche.. you spoke of koisk setups... 
[10:21] <smouche> I'm using 496,000 kb for everything right now, out of 512 Mb total
[10:22] <mactiny> do you know of anything which is of a fairly high standard
[10:22] <buz> mhh personally i wouldnt want to run any machine below 512
[10:22] <whiskey_2> smouche, don't count the buffers
[10:22] <whiskey_2> smouche, just count the raw usage
[10:22] <smouche> heh sorry whiskey_2 -- newbie here
[10:22] <smouche> !
[10:22] <TayloR> Hey all
[10:22] <TayloR> :)
[10:22] <mactiny> hi
[10:22] <buz> right now with about 5 apps (thunderbird, firefox with 6 tabs, konversation and kopete) it says it uses about 550MB
[10:23] <whiskey_2> buz, look deeper and see how much is being set aside for buffers by the kernel
[10:23] <buz> i'm not entirely sure if i should discount the 256MB swap it accounts for being as cached though
[10:23] <buz> mhh buffers: 44k according to top
[10:23] <mactiny> what is the balance between ubuntu vs kubuntu users
[10:23] <buz> Mem:   1036488k total,   540960k used,   495528k free,       44k buffers
[10:23] <buz> Swap:   499960k total,        0k used,   499960k free,   257888k cached
[10:23] <buz> much more ubuntu users
[10:24] <buz> kubuntu is very new
[10:24] <mactiny> those who have a choice.. which would you say they normally choose
[10:24] <whiskey_2> buz, well i ran 512meg on gentoo...but i really did not need it except to compile a couple of memory hogs
[10:24] <smouche> mactiny, about kiosks - no, I don't -- 
[10:24] <buz> i think its a matter of personal taste if you use gnome or kde
[10:24] <whiskey_2> buz, but for most precompiled stuff and even for compiling many apps 256meg stick should do it
[10:25] <buz> personally, i think kde looks more polished and the ui is more consistent among apps
[10:25] <buz> well it depends
[10:25] <buz> on windows i'd regularly fill 800MB too
[10:25] <buz> so maybe i'm just extreme ;-)
[10:25] <mactiny> i think in the area of engagement.. a speaking computer would be nice.. one with a perfectly human voice that is
[10:25] <whiskey_2> mactiny, well we had that on dos
[10:25] <whiskey_2> mactiny, a long time ago
[10:25] <whiskey_2> mactiny, but not many people were interested
[10:26] <whiskey_2> mactiny, sound blaster  originally came out with parrot or something like that
[10:26] <mactiny> i think thats just because the voices are so poor
[10:26] <whiskey_2> mactiny, it is hard to remember those days
[10:26] <mactiny> its all about real personallity
[10:26] <mactiny> but i agree with you
[10:26] <buz> the days of fiddling to get 620kb base memory best remain forgotten
[10:27] <smouche> mactiny -- what about in reverse:  speech-to-text -- do you do any of that?
[10:27] <whiskey_2> buz, no those days are still here....i have to do it all the time for dosbox
[10:27] <buz> WTF do you run on dos
[10:27] <mactiny> i have tried.. but tend to prefer touching the keys
[10:27] <whiskey_2> buz, now i can understand how to use dosbox...but i can't understand how to use wine
[10:27] <buz> speech to text is useless in many situations
[10:27] <mactiny> also.. it seems that the teaching faze.. takes to long
[10:27] <buz> i don't want people spying on me using just their ears, for one
[10:28] <smouche> me too, mactiny, but I've always thought it would be wonderful in language learning to have
[10:28] <buz> wine doesnt quite work for me either
[10:28] <buz> and qemu with XP is f***** slow
[10:28] <whiskey_2> buz, i have  a lot of old dos games that i bought before nintendo came out
[10:28] <smouche> a really good speech to text thing, so students could
[10:28] <buz> ahh
[10:28] <whiskey_2> buz, and i like the dos games
[10:28] <buz> those are REAAAALY old then ;-)
[10:28] <smouche> practice normalizing their pronunciation
[10:28] <whiskey_2> buz, yes but zork and scott adams adventure are fun
[10:29] <buz> or we all just standardize on talking like robots
[10:29] <buz> makes it easier for all of us
[10:29] <mactiny> yes agree competely... the user pc cummunication experience has a lot to improve
[10:29] <smouche> seeing how well they could get a computer to transcribe their speech accurately
[10:29] <mactiny> indeed
[10:29] <mactiny> if i could speak normally.. i would use it
[10:29] <whiskey_2> smouche, that was already done by sound blaster many years ago...but no one was interested
[10:30] <whiskey_2> smouche, nobody cares about speech to text...or text to speech
[10:30] <smouche> whiskey_2, -- what I'm really talking about is Dragon Naturally speaking - more word processing apps
[10:30] <mactiny> well.. its one of those areas where poeple need to be shown that they need it.. remember the time before cell phone
[10:30] <smouche> not so much actually controlling a computer by voice
[10:30] <whiskey_2> smouche, yes i thought that might be interesting at one time....but i really don't know if people like wearing headsets
[10:31] <mactiny> which prog... do you believe is the best dragon naturally speaking, or ibm viavoice
[10:31] <mactiny> well the mic could be built into the pc
[10:31] <smouche> mactiny, I don't know -- expensive stuff, haven't tried it
[10:31] <whiskey_2> mactiny, well i saw dragon many years ago...and at the time it was interesting...but i have never seen ibm's stuff....they are expensive like MS
[10:32] <mactiny> well if you are going to use it daily.. the price really isnt an issue.. i normally download the stuff for testing purposes
[10:32] <mactiny> havent found one i would want to pay money for
[10:33] <whiskey_2> mactiny, well many years ago a few people were interested but only a few....and today i doubt anyone left is interested
[10:33] <mactiny> remember hal.. in 2001 space ...  imagine if we could use our pc like that
[10:33] <smouche> whiskey_2, not true!  this stuff is really important for folks with disabilities
[10:34] <whiskey_2> smouche, well i said a few were interested
[10:34] <smouche> and potentially valuable for language learners
[10:34] <mactiny> the hting is.. a keyboard and mouse is rather arcane... pc of the future will require better user /pc interaction
[10:34] <smouche> and of course, in embedded setups, like in a car, for dictation, or having email read out loud...
[10:34] <kubuntero> hello
[10:34] <kubuntero> how to install
[10:34] <kubuntero> java 
[10:34] <mactiny> smouche.. are you interested in language learning
[10:35] <kubuntero> in konqueror
[10:35] <kubuntero> and opera
[10:35] <smouche> mactiny, yes.  That's my main use for a computer.
[10:35] <mactiny> really
[10:35] <mactiny> please tell
[10:35] <kubuntero> ??
[10:35] <mactiny> what langauges you learning.. and whcih methods do you use?
[10:35] <smouche> the internet helped me learn to read/understand french
[10:35] <smouche> mactiny -- google!
[10:35] <mactiny> lovely.. my next language
[10:36] <mactiny> do you have any sites i could try
[10:36] <mactiny> which you find are good
[10:36] <smouche> mactiny -- I mean, I use google as a giant dictionary
[10:36] <smouche> just for browsing the non-english speaking web
[10:36] <kubuntero> java not workin :(
[10:36] <smouche> and finding internet radio
[10:36] <mactiny> fascinating
[10:36] <mactiny> so you just spend time in the world of the frech
[10:37] <mactiny> french*
[10:37] <smouche> mactiny -- I don't use "language learning" sites -- I tend to stick to "real" language material
[10:37] <kubuntero> help me
[10:37] <smouche> such as french radio -- try www.radio-france.fr  - fantastic public radio
[10:37] <mactiny> i have an amazing boo i think you would like to read
[10:37] <smouche> and newspapers, etc
[10:37] <mactiny> book
[10:38] <smouche> what's that, mactiny?
[10:38] <mactiny> let me copress it quickly
[10:38] <mactiny> its 400k
[10:39] <larkhill> kubuntero: mozilla or konq.?
[10:39] <mactiny> How to Learn Any Language (To Enjoy It) - Barry Farber pdf
[10:39] <kubuntero> konqueror
[10:39] <smouche> sounds interesting, mactiny
[10:39] <kubuntero> larkhill
[10:39] <larkhill> kubuntero: am running konqueror myself, there is a Java question on the konq. faq pages
[10:39] <mactiny> smouche.. check pm
[10:40] <smouche> thanks, mactiny -- 
[10:40] <kubuntero> and opera
[10:40] <kubuntero> ?
[10:40] <mactiny> give me your email in pm
[10:40] <larkhill> kubuntero: should be straightforward on opera
[10:40] <smouche> hang on mactiny
[10:40] <mactiny> and ill send it to you
[10:40] <mactiny> k
[10:41] <whiskey_2> the new version of dosbox give 637k free mem that is pretty good
[10:41] <whiskey_2> and alreay has the sound driver loaded
[10:41] <larkhill> kubuntero: there is a Java HOWTO in the Konqueror web page, http://www.konqueror.org/ have you tried that?
[10:41] <smouche> mactiny -- sorry, I've got something setup wrong on x-chat here...
[10:41] <mactiny> np
[10:41] <mactiny> take your time
[10:42] <smouche> it's not letting me accept your pm... hmmm
[10:42] <mactiny> how could i get it to you
[10:43] <whiskey_2> but on ubuntu...dosbox can't open midi sequencer
[10:43] <whiskey_2> but i really don't care that much
[10:43] <whiskey_2> except for the sound in monkey island...i always liked the Jamaican midi
[10:43] <mactiny> is that working
[10:43] <mactiny> sorry im on 56k
[10:43] <mactiny> so may take a few mins
[10:43] <smouche> mactiny -- weird,
[10:44] <mactiny> its coming to you
[10:44] <smouche> this sucks, mactiny -- x-chat is showing me the chat offers, but not opening a tab..
[10:44] <smouche> ah,
[10:44] <whiskey_2> mactiny, you can test dosbox on ubuntu with some free games like Beneath the Steel Blue Sky and Flight of the Amazon Queen
[10:44] <whiskey_2> if you did not buy any old dos games
[10:44] <smouche> I need to get gaim on here, I think
[10:44] <mactiny> k
[10:45] <mactiny> thanks whiskey
[10:45] <mactiny> smouche.. perhaps you can just join a private room with me
[10:45] <smouche> yep mactiny
[10:45] <smouche> let's see...
[10:46] <mactiny> type.. /join smouche
[10:46] <smouche> ok
[10:51] <larkhill> second call: RealPlayer on  Konqueror anyone - cook.6.0.so error, thx
[10:51] <kubuntero> larkhill
[10:51] <kubuntero> thanks
[10:51] <kubuntero> java 
[10:51] <larkhill> yep
[10:51] <kubuntero> working now
[10:51] <larkhill> gr8
[10:53] <whiskey_2> larkhill, you don't need Real Player but the cook codec is in RP9
[10:53] <whiskey_2> larkhill, so i just grabbed the codec
[10:54] <whiskey_2> it helps for gstreamer
[10:54] <larkhill> ok, so I uninstall realplayer, and use kaffeine?
[10:54] <larkhill> or gstreamer?
[10:54] <whiskey_2> larkhill, that is up to you
[10:54] <whiskey_2> larkhill, i dont tell anybody what to do
[10:54] <larkhill> how do you mean RP9
[10:55] <larkhill> do I need to download the cook codec before it will work?
[10:56] <whiskey_2> larkhill, well i got the RP9 source code and extracted the cook codec
[10:57] <whiskey_2> larkhill, but you can do what you want
[10:57] <larkhill> OK, give me 20 mins and I'll uninstall RP and see if I get any result from kaffeine or gstreamer, not too sure about delving into source code though
[10:57] <whiskey_2> larkhill, well be careful...because if you uninstall RP it may take the lib with it
[10:58] <larkhill> it no doubt will...
[11:03] <whiskey_2> ok i mounted c: drive in dosbox...let me go get amazon queen and see if it works on ubuntu
[11:03] <whiskey_2> i had it working on gentoo
[11:33] <malte> is it possible to make konqueror open an url in a new tab from the command line? if konqueror is already started
[11:34] <malte> n/m, found a dcop call
[11:44] <RustyShackleford> Can somebody give me the link to the Screen Resolution Fix?
[11:45] <whiskey_2> yes ok...the free FOTAQ is working on ubuntu just as well as gentoo
[11:45] <whiskey_2> if anyone wants the free games
[11:47] <RustyShackleford> What apps does Ubuntu have that Kubuntu doesn't?
[11:49] <whiskey_2> nothing really...just mostly a different set of widgets
[11:49] <whiskey_2> a different look and feel if you will
[11:50] <RustyShackleford> I've noticed that there is a lot of stuff here that serves the same purposes as apps on unbuntu but is just named differently.
[11:50] <whiskey_2> RustyShackleford, that is correct
[11:50] <whiskey_2> RustyShackleford, there are many strange names in linux
[11:50] <whiskey_2> RustyShackleford, such as Dave Gnukem
[11:59] <RustyShackleford> Is there a games pack for Kubuntu?