| === _troy [~troy@adsl-67-67-196-183.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| _troy | Hi | 02:25 |
|---|---|---|
| _troy | Was interested in helping out with the Ubuntu Doc Team. I will send an email to the list, thanks | 05:00 |
| Burgundavia | salut | 05:10 |
| _troy | Greetings | 05:18 |
| Burgundavia | did you send a message to the list? | 05:24 |
| === maskie [~maskie@196-30-109-1.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
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| jsgotangco | greetings | 08:44 |
| Burgundavia | salut | 08:48 |
| jsgotangco | arrgghh | 09:21 |
| jsgotangco | bbl | 09:21 |
| === froud [~froud@ndn-165-147-115.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| froud | African Greetings | 09:51 |
| Burgundavia | salut | 09:52 |
| froud | Have you slept? | 09:53 |
| Burgundavia | since we last talked, yes? | 09:53 |
| froud | oh good | 09:53 |
| froud | He he we're finally fighting the war on bandwidth caps in South Africa | 10:03 |
| froud | http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/feedback/feedcopy.asp?CommentID=4260 | 10:03 |
| === mpt [mpt@210-54-224-2.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| froud | morn mpt | 11:09 |
| === jsgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| jsgotangco | hello | 11:13 |
| mpt | hi froud | 11:13 |
| froud | jsgotangco: morn | 11:13 |
| jsgotangco | mpt, froud hello | 11:13 |
| jsgotangco | froud, the teamstuff in svn, this what we're going to base our next work? | 11:15 |
| froud | yes, it is aimed at collecting some knowledge from users so we can make informed decisions | 11:16 |
| froud | jsgotangco: if you have questions and thoughts please do share them | 11:19 |
| jsgotangco | im looking at the stuff at the moment | 11:26 |
| jsgotangco | ok im just going to church ill be back in 2 hours for the meeting | 11:48 |
| jsgotangco | bbl | 11:48 |
| froud | say hello to god for me. God bless | 11:48 |
| jsgotangco | haha | 11:49 |
| Burgundavia | ah crap, meeting. Forgot about that | 11:53 |
| Burgundavia | means I have to stay up | 11:53 |
| froud | why do you think I asked if you had slept :-) | 11:53 |
| Burgundavia | can sleep afterwords | 11:54 |
| === mpt [mpt@210-55-179-107.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| Burgundavia | salut mpt | 12:09 |
| mpt | bonsoir | 12:10 |
| mdke | yoyoyo | 12:11 |
| mpt | Anyone here know Icelandic? | 12:12 |
| Burgundavia | no, but if you humm a few bars I can fake it | 12:12 |
| mdke | nope | 12:13 |
| mdke | how come? | 12:13 |
| mpt | Burgundavia: Ok, here goes | 12:13 |
| === mpt clears his throat | ||
| mpt | "Nicholas Bourbaki er dulnefni hps strfringa, sem flestir eru franskir ..." | 12:13 |
| === mdke takes cover | ||
| mdke | tried google? | 12:14 |
| mdke | oh it doesn't do icelandic | 12:14 |
| Burgundavia | no online will do icelandic | 12:14 |
| mdke | rubbish | 12:14 |
| mdke | i guess there's no demand :/ | 12:14 |
| mpt | yeah | 12:16 |
| mdke | there must be some | 12:16 |
| mdke | aha! | 12:17 |
| mdke | Nicholas Bourbaki is dulnefni hps mathematician , whom flestir are franskir | 12:17 |
| mdke | ;) | 12:17 |
| mpt | oh well done | 12:18 |
| mdke | thanks | 12:18 |
| mdke | maybe its some kind of icelandic dialect | 12:18 |
| Burgundavia | nha, more likely a crappy tranlator | 12:19 |
| mdke | hmm | 12:19 |
| mdke | lemme try putting it in my tardis | 12:19 |
| === Kinnison tickles Burgundavia | ||
| mpt | It's from an Icelandic Wikipedia article, so I would hope it's standard Icelandic | 12:19 |
| Burgundavia | Kinnison, did you get my mail? | 12:20 |
| Burgundavia | mpt, does this guy have an english interwiki? | 12:20 |
| Kinnison | Burgundavia: yes, cheeky git | 12:21 |
| Burgundavia | Kinnison, I had fun writing that | 12:21 |
| === Kinnison is just pleased he was the first to hit that mail this morning | ||
| Kinnison | any of the other people on help@ might take offence | 12:22 |
| === Burgundavia is mock surprised "Nobody would every take offence to me!" | ||
| mpt | Burgundavia: ah, I found the English article, but it's under a different spelling | 12:26 |
| mpt | So it's not inter-ed | 12:27 |
| mpt | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Bourbaki | 12:27 |
| mpt | http://is.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Bourbaki | 12:28 |
| Burgundavia | they point at each other, so I assume they are the same article subject | 12:31 |
| mdke | are we doing the meeting here or in the other chan | 12:34 |
| mpt | There's another channel? | 12:35 |
| mdke | ubuntu-meeting | 12:35 |
| mpt | ooo | 12:35 |
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| mdke | ciao enrico | 12:36 |
| enrico | ciao! | 12:37 |
| Burgundavia | salut enrico | 12:37 |
| mpt | That was short and sweet | 12:45 |
| mdke | :) | 12:45 |
| froud | dudes time | 12:59 |
| froud | Burgundavia: where that time zone web site you sent me | 01:01 |
| froud | forgot to bookmark | 01:01 |
| mdke | lol | 01:01 |
| Burgundavia | www.time.gov | 01:01 |
| Burgundavia | click on utc button | 01:01 |
| Burgundavia | it is 11 utc | 01:01 |
| Burgundavia | I forgot about dst | 01:01 |
| Burgundavia | i am no -9 | 01:02 |
| Burgundavia | now | 01:02 |
| froud | Burgundavia: no the other one | 01:03 |
| mdke | http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/ ? | 01:03 |
| mpt | froud, just btw, I'm sure that somewhere in the world there are Mathews with only one T, but I have never, ever, met one | 01:04 |
| mdke | heh | 01:04 |
| mdke | only the sucky ones | 01:04 |
| froud | http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?month=4&day=17&year=2005&p1=0&p2=111&p3=-1&p4=-1 | 01:04 |
| froud | so the meeting is at Sunday, April 17, 2005 at 12:00:00Sun 2:00 PM | 01:05 |
| mdke | yes | 01:05 |
| froud | aaaaah not good | 01:06 |
| froud | gotta go to lunch with family at around that time | 01:06 |
| mdke | bugger | 01:07 |
| froud | well in th einterim you guys can read my mesage to the list. should take about an hour | 01:08 |
| froud | mpt: did I spell your name wrong. I do appologize | 01:08 |
| mpt | froud: I read your message | 01:19 |
| mpt | froud: and after reading the last bit, I think you should read http://www.userland.com/whatIsStopEnergy | 01:19 |
| mpt | Personally, I don't think an analysis based on voluntary writeups is going to be useful, for the reasons I gave yesterday | 01:20 |
| mpt | but if you want to do it, please, go ahead and do it :-) | 01:20 |
| froud | mpt: but you don't give a better solution either | 01:26 |
| mpt | froud: Personally I think guessing would produce better results | 01:28 |
| mpt | And that's not a knock against anyone | 01:28 |
| mpt | But the only better solution, creeping up behind people and watching them, is expensive, and there's no way around that. | 01:29 |
| mpt | I worked in cybercafes for four years, which was a cheap way of avoiding setting up my own usability lab | 01:30 |
| froud | mpt: please voice your feelings in the list and suggest alternatives | 01:31 |
| mpt | froud, I've already told you, more than once, I don't have alternatives, other than guessing. | 01:31 |
| froud | mpt: I realize that my solution is not perfect and I expect it to be. What I am looking for is alternative solutions | 01:31 |
| froud | mpt: then say so on list and leave it at that. Please I am a positive energy person. I do things to keep moving and fully expect that people with something valuable to say will improve on my ideas. | 01:33 |
| froud | mpt: if your effort in this is only to slam everything everyone says then I dont think it will be very helpful. I do believe that your input can be valuable if you approach it will suggestions taking into consideration our environment | 01:34 |
| mpt | froud: That's why I'm not going to complain on-list, because you said if anyone did that you'd stop, and I don't want you to stop | 01:34 |
| froud | mpt: we work within the limitations we have | 01:34 |
| froud | mpt: NO I DID NOT | 01:35 |
| froud | I said if I get only one response | 01:35 |
| froud | negative I will take it as a no | 01:35 |
| froud | please read in context | 01:35 |
| mpt | hmm, maybe I misread | 01:36 |
| === trickie [~trickie@203-173-47-188.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| mpt | 'If I get back one negative response, I will be "stop."' | 01:38 |
| mpt | ahhh, I get it now | 01:39 |
| froud | Please note that I will take silence to equal consent and will make my | 01:39 |
| froud | decisions to move ahead or not based on the input and support within our | 01:39 |
| froud | team. So if I get back one positive response, I will be "go." If I get back | 01:39 |
| froud | one negative response, I will be "stop." | 01:39 |
| mpt | it's positive - negative, rather than negative > 0 | 01:39 |
| mpt | ok, sorry | 01:39 |
| === jsgotangco [DaWorm@81-nas1.dial-pool.digitelone.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| jsgotangco | hola | 01:40 |
| froud | mpt: as I said it is easy to sit on the side and slam people. Not so easy to resolve problems | 01:40 |
| jsgotangco | figthing again? | 01:41 |
| froud | RFC: What is Stop Energy? | 01:41 |
| froud | Posted by Dave Winer, 4/25/02 at 10:11:08 AM. | 01:41 |
| mdke | jsgotangco, yes | 01:41 |
| froud | mpt: your posted link | 01:41 |
| froud | He nmakes a goo dpoint | 01:42 |
| jsgotangco | go to #war | 01:42 |
| froud | I've been suckered into debates with Stop Energy proponents too many times, these days I don't propose open protocols or formats unless there is a clear advantage to being open; because I want to move and I'm tired of pointless debates. | 01:42 |
| froud | Hence I have put stop go into my message | 01:42 |
| froud | I too what to move in positive direction. Not go in square circles | 01:42 |
| froud | mpt: my approach to community development is to give proposals that may be solutions to problems providing the community supports them | 01:43 |
| froud | mpt: I dont spend my time typing message just for the fun of it all the time | 01:44 |
| mpt | froud: I did what you asked yesterday -- https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LocalHelp is now a child of https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamProjects | 01:45 |
| froud | mpt: thanks for that it is valuable inout | 01:46 |
| froud | input | 01:46 |
| jsgotangco | crud | 01:48 |
| froud | chaps I have a png to show you. It is based on a system I developed for one of my customers | 01:49 |
| froud | http://www.inwords.co.za/helpsys.png | 01:49 |
| froud | It pertains to a help system under a browser | 01:50 |
| Burgundavia | hmm | 01:50 |
| Burgundavia | seems like every other help browser out there, which can be a good and bad thing | 01:51 |
| Burgundavia | I like the inclusion of search though | 01:51 |
| jsgotangco | sounds good | 01:51 |
| froud | Burgundavia: it goes on the basis that users are accustome dto the win help system | 01:51 |
| Burgundavia | froud, that is based on win, no? | 01:52 |
| Burgundavia | yes | 01:52 |
| mdke | where's the dog? | 01:52 |
| froud | we tried not to make it too different so as to promote easy of use | 01:52 |
| mdke | help systems must have a dog or at the very least a paperclip | 01:52 |
| froud | Burgundavia: its html | 01:52 |
| === Burgundavia kills mdke | ||
| mdke | heh | 01:52 |
| froud | but the user requirements were from windows users | 01:52 |
| jsgotangco | hmmm this is heavy on html and javascript no? | 01:52 |
| === Burgundavia buries the body with the dog and paperclip | ||
| mpt | Looks fairly similar to http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/ | 01:53 |
| Burgundavia | Ideally , i would like to see something like beagle | 01:53 |
| froud | Well for HTML not reall | 01:53 |
| froud | y | 01:53 |
| froud | a few java scripts | 01:53 |
| froud | and css | 01:53 |
| Burgundavia | where the main page would be common howtos | 01:53 |
| jsgotangco | it looks like msdn/technet | 01:53 |
| Burgundavia | with a big search button | 01:53 |
| froud | as I said it is based on a windows user profile, but I believe it demonstrates what can be done | 01:54 |
| jsgotangco | thats a good idea, a lot of people are familiar with that interface | 01:54 |
| trickie | froud, what does the custom notes do? | 01:54 |
| froud | trickie: users can add notes inline to the pages | 01:55 |
| trickie | froud, is that where a user can track of their own additions | 01:55 |
| trickie | froud, that is nice | 01:55 |
| froud | trickie: custom notes is a listing of them | 01:55 |
| froud | yes | 01:55 |
| froud | they can also send notes in xml format to the customer | 01:55 |
| trickie | I was thinking about doing something similar for sorta like an Ubuntu Dictionary | 01:55 |
| froud | in this case an ERP vendor | 01:56 |
| jsgotangco | hmmm | 01:56 |
| trickie | and people could make their own and even submit them | 01:56 |
| jsgotangco | i knew it | 01:56 |
| jsgotangco | that's why its so familiar | 01:56 |
| jsgotangco | it looks like the help of oracle ebsse | 01:56 |
| froud | jsgotangco: maybe I am not saying | 01:56 |
| froud | trickie: in the system admins sometimes put help central | 01:57 |
| trickie | froud, that looks really nice | 01:57 |
| froud | trickie: so notes are also shared to other users | 01:57 |
| trickie | froud, yeah... so the doc can grow organically | 01:57 |
| froud | yes and feeback on docs in inline | 01:57 |
| trickie | more of what we need i reckon as a opposed to a system of showing seperate 'user manuals' | 01:58 |
| froud | we have visability into what users note to themselves | 01:58 |
| mpt | It's 1200 UTC | 01:58 |
| trickie | yes... #ubuntu-meeting? | 01:58 |
| jsgotangco | would it be possible to "push" new stuff in this interface | 01:58 |
| froud | oh yes it is | 01:58 |
| froud | jsgotangco: yes it is | 01:58 |
| froud | and it is user profiled | 01:58 |
| froud | the syste admins see other topics | 01:59 |
| jsgotangco | cookies? | 01:59 |
| froud | yes | 01:59 |
| froud | ok meeting | 01:59 |
| froud | So its a daemon | 02:05 |
| Burgundavia | Burgundavia hey, take a look at this idea: | 02:05 |
| Burgundavia | Burgundavia http://img107.echo.cx/my.php?image=help2ui6ja.png | 02:05 |
| Burgundavia | froud Burgundavia: nice suggestion | 02:05 |
| Burgundavia | Burgundavia by default, it woudl show common things | 02:05 |
| Burgundavia | Burgundavia and when they searched, it would reorder itself | 02:05 |
| Burgundavia | Burgundavia very simple ui | 02:05 |
| Burgundavia | jsgotangco would beagle be part of breezy | 02:05 |
| Burgundavia | Burgundavia jsgotangco, that is the plan | 02:05 |
| Burgundavia | Burgundavia but this would be a standalone app | 02:05 |
| Burgundavia | Burgundavia I just used beagle as a look example | 02:06 |
| Burgundavia | froud Gnome only | 02:06 |
| Burgundavia | froud is the backend desktop neutral | 02:06 |
| Burgundavia | Burgundavia someone could right a qt frontend | 02:06 |
| Burgundavia | Burgundavia it is daemon and frontend | 02:06 |
| Burgundavia | * froud thinks we should take this back to channel until mary arrives | 02:06 |
| Burgundavia | Burgundavia we might as well talk here | 02:06 |
| Burgundavia | froud not sure everyone else not docteam is interested | 02:06 |
| Burgundavia | froud and it would be better to capture it under our weblog etc | 02:06 |
| Burgundavia | Burgundavia true | 02:06 |
| Burgundavia | jsgotangco ok | 02:06 |
| Burgundavia | Burgundavia am going to flood #ubuntu-doc with this talk | 02:06 |
| Burgundavia | there, now the log has it | 02:06 |
| Burgundavia | sorry ;) | 02:06 |
| froud | thaks | 02:06 |
| froud | so it is a daemon | 02:06 |
| Burgundavia | beagle isn't really our answer | 02:06 |
| froud | does it open the help content or only search it | 02:07 |
| jsgotangco | well true | 02:07 |
| Burgundavia | just a ui like it | 02:07 |
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| trickie | we could still use a similar indexer | 02:07 |
| trickie | with python bindings | 02:07 |
| mdke | ok lets go | 02:07 |
| jsgotangco | instead of grouped boxes maybe consider doing it as a flowchart perhaps sort of a tutorial stage | 02:07 |
| hypatia | meeting on? | 02:07 |
| jsgotangco | sure | 02:07 |
| hypatia | sorry I'm late -- just drove 5 hours :(\ | 02:07 |
| froud | Burgundavia: nice for our index page | 02:07 |
| froud | hypatia: no worries | 02:08 |
| froud | hypatia: you leading the meet | 02:08 |
| jsgotangco | i forgot | 02:09 |
| jsgotangco | froud god said hi | 02:09 |
| jsgotangco | *grin* | 02:09 |
| hypatia | head over to #ubuntu-meeting folks! | 02:09 |
| froud | Oh cool god remembers me | 02:09 |
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| Burgundavia | daven, join us in #ubuntu-meeting | 02:22 |
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| jsgotangco | ok that wasnt so bad | 03:25 |
| jsgotangco | im going to finish my laundry...tata for now | 03:26 |
| daven | ttfn | 03:26 |
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