=== _troy [~troy@adsl-67-67-196-183.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:25] <_troy> Hi [05:00] <_troy> Was interested in helping out with the Ubuntu Doc Team. I will send an email to the list, thanks [05:10] salut [05:18] <_troy> Greetings [05:24] did you send a message to the list? === maskie [~maskie@196-30-109-1.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:44] greetings [08:48] salut [09:21] arrgghh [09:21] bbl === froud [~froud@ndn-165-147-115.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:51] African Greetings [09:52] salut [09:53] Have you slept? [09:53] since we last talked, yes? [09:53] oh good [10:03] He he we're finally fighting the war on bandwidth caps in South Africa [10:03] http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/feedback/feedcopy.asp?CommentID=4260 === mpt [mpt@210-54-224-2.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:09] morn mpt === jsgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:13] hello [11:13] hi froud [11:13] jsgotangco: morn [11:13] mpt, froud hello [11:15] froud, the teamstuff in svn, this what we're going to base our next work? [11:16] yes, it is aimed at collecting some knowledge from users so we can make informed decisions [11:19] jsgotangco: if you have questions and thoughts please do share them [11:26] im looking at the stuff at the moment [11:48] ok im just going to church ill be back in 2 hours for the meeting [11:48] bbl [11:48] say hello to god for me. God bless [11:49] haha [11:53] ah crap, meeting. Forgot about that [11:53] means I have to stay up [11:53] why do you think I asked if you had slept :-) [11:54] can sleep afterwords === mpt [mpt@210-55-179-107.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:09] salut mpt [12:10] bonsoir [12:11] yoyoyo [12:12] Anyone here know Icelandic? [12:12] no, but if you humm a few bars I can fake it [12:13] nope [12:13] how come? [12:13] Burgundavia: Ok, here goes === mpt clears his throat [12:13] "Nicholas Bourbaki er dulnefni hps strfringa, sem flestir eru franskir ..." === mdke takes cover [12:14] tried google? [12:14] oh it doesn't do icelandic [12:14] no online will do icelandic [12:14] rubbish [12:14] i guess there's no demand :/ [12:16] yeah [12:16] there must be some [12:17] aha! [12:17] Nicholas Bourbaki is dulnefni hps mathematician , whom flestir are franskir [12:17] ;) [12:18] oh well done [12:18] thanks [12:18] maybe its some kind of icelandic dialect [12:19] nha, more likely a crappy tranlator [12:19] hmm [12:19] lemme try putting it in my tardis === Kinnison tickles Burgundavia [12:19] It's from an Icelandic Wikipedia article, so I would hope it's standard Icelandic [12:20] Kinnison, did you get my mail? [12:20] mpt, does this guy have an english interwiki? [12:21] Burgundavia: yes, cheeky git [12:21] Kinnison, I had fun writing that === Kinnison is just pleased he was the first to hit that mail this morning [12:22] any of the other people on help@ might take offence === Burgundavia is mock surprised "Nobody would every take offence to me!" [12:26] Burgundavia: ah, I found the English article, but it's under a different spelling [12:27] So it's not inter-ed [12:27] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Bourbaki [12:28] http://is.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Bourbaki [12:31] they point at each other, so I assume they are the same article subject [12:34] are we doing the meeting here or in the other chan [12:35] There's another channel? [12:35] ubuntu-meeting [12:35] ooo === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:36] ciao enrico [12:37] ciao! [12:37] salut enrico [12:45] That was short and sweet [12:45] :) [12:59] dudes time [01:01] Burgundavia: where that time zone web site you sent me [01:01] forgot to bookmark [01:01] lol [01:01] www.time.gov [01:01] click on utc button [01:01] it is 11 utc [01:01] I forgot about dst [01:02] i am no -9 [01:02] now [01:03] Burgundavia: no the other one [01:03] http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/ ? [01:04] froud, just btw, I'm sure that somewhere in the world there are Mathews with only one T, but I have never, ever, met one [01:04] heh [01:04] only the sucky ones [01:04] http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?month=4&day=17&year=2005&p1=0&p2=111&p3=-1&p4=-1 [01:05] so the meeting is at Sunday, April 17, 2005 at 12:00:00 Sun 2:00 PM [01:05] yes [01:06] aaaaah not good [01:06] gotta go to lunch with family at around that time [01:07] bugger [01:08] well in th einterim you guys can read my mesage to the list. should take about an hour [01:08] mpt: did I spell your name wrong. I do appologize [01:19] froud: I read your message [01:19] froud: and after reading the last bit, I think you should read http://www.userland.com/whatIsStopEnergy [01:20] Personally, I don't think an analysis based on voluntary writeups is going to be useful, for the reasons I gave yesterday [01:20] but if you want to do it, please, go ahead and do it :-) [01:26] mpt: but you don't give a better solution either [01:28] froud: Personally I think guessing would produce better results [01:28] And that's not a knock against anyone [01:29] But the only better solution, creeping up behind people and watching them, is expensive, and there's no way around that. [01:30] I worked in cybercafes for four years, which was a cheap way of avoiding setting up my own usability lab [01:31] mpt: please voice your feelings in the list and suggest alternatives [01:31] froud, I've already told you, more than once, I don't have alternatives, other than guessing. [01:31] mpt: I realize that my solution is not perfect and I expect it to be. What I am looking for is alternative solutions [01:33] mpt: then say so on list and leave it at that. Please I am a positive energy person. I do things to keep moving and fully expect that people with something valuable to say will improve on my ideas. [01:34] mpt: if your effort in this is only to slam everything everyone says then I dont think it will be very helpful. I do believe that your input can be valuable if you approach it will suggestions taking into consideration our environment [01:34] froud: That's why I'm not going to complain on-list, because you said if anyone did that you'd stop, and I don't want you to stop [01:34] mpt: we work within the limitations we have [01:35] mpt: NO I DID NOT [01:35] I said if I get only one response [01:35] negative I will take it as a no [01:35] please read in context [01:36] hmm, maybe I misread === trickie [~trickie@203-173-47-188.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:38] 'If I get back one negative response, I will be "stop."' [01:39] ahhh, I get it now [01:39] Please note that I will take silence to equal consent and will make my [01:39] decisions to move ahead or not based on the input and support within our [01:39] team. So if I get back one positive response, I will be "go." If I get back [01:39] one negative response, I will be "stop." [01:39] it's positive - negative, rather than negative > 0 [01:39] ok, sorry === jsgotangco [DaWorm@81-nas1.dial-pool.digitelone.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:40] hola [01:40] mpt: as I said it is easy to sit on the side and slam people. Not so easy to resolve problems [01:41] figthing again? [01:41] RFC: What is Stop Energy? [01:41] Posted by Dave Winer, 4/25/02 at 10:11:08 AM. [01:41] jsgotangco, yes [01:41] mpt: your posted link [01:42] He nmakes a goo dpoint [01:42] go to #war [01:42] I've been suckered into debates with Stop Energy proponents too many times, these days I don't propose open protocols or formats unless there is a clear advantage to being open; because I want to move and I'm tired of pointless debates. [01:42] Hence I have put stop go into my message [01:42] I too what to move in positive direction. Not go in square circles [01:43] mpt: my approach to community development is to give proposals that may be solutions to problems providing the community supports them [01:44] mpt: I dont spend my time typing message just for the fun of it all the time [01:45] froud: I did what you asked yesterday -- https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LocalHelp is now a child of https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamProjects [01:46] mpt: thanks for that it is valuable inout [01:46] input [01:48] crud [01:49] chaps I have a png to show you. It is based on a system I developed for one of my customers [01:49] http://www.inwords.co.za/helpsys.png [01:50] It pertains to a help system under a browser [01:50] hmm [01:51] seems like every other help browser out there, which can be a good and bad thing [01:51] I like the inclusion of search though [01:51] sounds good [01:51] Burgundavia: it goes on the basis that users are accustome dto the win help system [01:52] froud, that is based on win, no? [01:52] yes [01:52] where's the dog? [01:52] we tried not to make it too different so as to promote easy of use [01:52] help systems must have a dog or at the very least a paperclip [01:52] Burgundavia: its html === Burgundavia kills mdke [01:52] heh [01:52] but the user requirements were from windows users [01:52] hmmm this is heavy on html and javascript no? === Burgundavia buries the body with the dog and paperclip [01:53] Looks fairly similar to http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/ [01:53] Ideally , i would like to see something like beagle [01:53] Well for HTML not reall [01:53] y [01:53] a few java scripts [01:53] and css [01:53] where the main page would be common howtos [01:53] it looks like msdn/technet [01:53] with a big search button [01:54] as I said it is based on a windows user profile, but I believe it demonstrates what can be done [01:54] thats a good idea, a lot of people are familiar with that interface [01:54] froud, what does the custom notes do? [01:55] trickie: users can add notes inline to the pages [01:55] froud, is that where a user can track of their own additions [01:55] froud, that is nice [01:55] trickie: custom notes is a listing of them [01:55] yes [01:55] they can also send notes in xml format to the customer [01:55] I was thinking about doing something similar for sorta like an Ubuntu Dictionary [01:56] in this case an ERP vendor [01:56] hmmm [01:56] and people could make their own and even submit them [01:56] i knew it [01:56] that's why its so familiar [01:56] it looks like the help of oracle ebsse [01:56] jsgotangco: maybe I am not saying [01:57] trickie: in the system admins sometimes put help central [01:57] froud, that looks really nice [01:57] trickie: so notes are also shared to other users [01:57] froud, yeah... so the doc can grow organically [01:57] yes and feeback on docs in inline [01:58] more of what we need i reckon as a opposed to a system of showing seperate 'user manuals' [01:58] we have visability into what users note to themselves [01:58] It's 1200 UTC [01:58] yes... #ubuntu-meeting? [01:58] would it be possible to "push" new stuff in this interface [01:58] oh yes it is [01:58] jsgotangco: yes it is [01:58] and it is user profiled [01:59] the syste admins see other topics [01:59] cookies? [01:59] yes [01:59] ok meeting [02:05] So its a daemon [02:05] Burgundavia hey, take a look at this idea: [02:05] Burgundavia http://img107.echo.cx/my.php?image=help2ui6ja.png [02:05] froud Burgundavia: nice suggestion [02:05] Burgundavia by default, it woudl show common things [02:05] Burgundavia and when they searched, it would reorder itself [02:05] Burgundavia very simple ui [02:05] jsgotangco would beagle be part of breezy [02:05] Burgundavia jsgotangco, that is the plan [02:05] Burgundavia but this would be a standalone app [02:06] Burgundavia I just used beagle as a look example [02:06] froud Gnome only [02:06] froud is the backend desktop neutral [02:06] Burgundavia someone could right a qt frontend [02:06] Burgundavia it is daemon and frontend [02:06] * froud thinks we should take this back to channel until mary arrives [02:06] Burgundavia we might as well talk here [02:06] froud not sure everyone else not docteam is interested [02:06] froud and it would be better to capture it under our weblog etc [02:06] Burgundavia true [02:06] jsgotangco ok [02:06] Burgundavia am going to flood #ubuntu-doc with this talk [02:06] there, now the log has it [02:06] sorry ;) [02:06] thaks [02:06] so it is a daemon [02:06] beagle isn't really our answer [02:07] does it open the help content or only search it [02:07] well true [02:07] just a ui like it === hypatia [~mary@adsl-66-203.swiftdsl.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:07] we could still use a similar indexer [02:07] with python bindings [02:07] ok lets go [02:07] instead of grouped boxes maybe consider doing it as a flowchart perhaps sort of a tutorial stage [02:07] meeting on? [02:07] sure [02:07] sorry I'm late -- just drove 5 hours :(\ [02:07] Burgundavia: nice for our index page [02:08] hypatia: no worries [02:08] hypatia: you leading the meet [02:09] i forgot [02:09] froud god said hi [02:09] *grin* [02:09] head over to #ubuntu-meeting folks! [02:09] Oh cool god remembers me === daven [~davesheep@83.148.133.161.adsl.griffin.net.uk] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:22] daven, join us in #ubuntu-meeting === trickie [~trickie@203-173-47-188.dyn.iinet.net.au] has left #ubuntu-doc ["later..."] === Burgundavia [~corey@24.68.134.11] has joined #ubuntu-doc === froud is now known as froud-away [03:25] ok that wasnt so bad [03:26] im going to finish my laundry...tata for now [03:26] ttfn === Folletto [~folletto@host197-116.pool8248.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Folletto [~folletto@host197-116.pool8248.interbusiness.it] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Sto] === phloem [~oak@70-34-70-122.ventca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke [~matt@81-179-242-160.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === froud-away is now known as froud