/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/05/01/#ubuntu-doc.txt

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zdslhello03:01
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jalrnchello, is anyone experiencing problems with the ubuntu wiki? I'm not able to save pages after editing... preview works fine though.03:44
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GeorgeDekahi all05:36
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jsgotangcowassup06:02
jsgotangcogimme some docteam luv06:02
jsgotangcohmmm06:06
jsgotangcoi will be talking to myself06:06
jsgotangcoat least the logs are getting this06:06
jsgotangcothere are a lot of discussions on the list and mostly are enthusiastic about the docteam projects06:06
jsgotangcobut how come no one is pulling docs from the existing svn06:06
jsgotangcoi can only see very few commits t the moment and its mostly minor changes06:07
jsgotangcohmmm06:07
jsgotangcoam i seeing a pattern06:07
jsgotangcohmmm06:12
jsgotangcoi will check the logs first maybe something is being cooked06:12
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jsgotangcohmm07:56
froudAfrican Greetings07:57
jsgotangcohi froud07:58
froudmorn07:58
jsgotangcoi see enrico checked on things07:58
froudsure, he is a bit busy but we can always count on him07:59
froudhows your kwick guide doing07:59
jsgotangcofroud, im committing a draft you might want to see it07:59
froudyeah, cool08:00
jsgotangcoive taken consideration of the nature of the quick guide08:00
jsgotangcoyou're right merging would be horrible08:00
froudgood, commit often is better, that wasy we can collabortate easier08:00
jsgotangcoim doing stuff on aboutkubuntu.xml as well but i will commit them later when i make some comments08:01
froudok08:01
jsgotangcoill be installing qemu later so i can get screens of plain kubuntu08:02
jsgotangcocheck how it works08:03
Burgundaviajsgotangco, just use the livecd, it is easier and (AFAIK) looks the same08:03
jsgotangcohmmm08:04
Burgundaviathus would you start with qemu -cdrom kbuntu.iso08:04
jsgotangcook i'll download it08:04
Burgundavianow that is very very slow08:04
Burgundaviamy 2500+ takes about 15 minutes to boot any livecde08:04
jsgotangcoi havent slept that much so im a bit tired i've watched the new pope08:04
jsgotangcohttp://www.wordpress.tokyotimes.org/index.php?p=51808:17
jsgotangcohaha08:17
Burgundaviajsgotangco, do you know how to leave a message for your svn commits? Makes it easier to say what has changed08:18
jsgotangcohmmm08:22
jsgotangcothere is no such thing as than on esvn08:23
jsgotangcoi maybe wrong08:23
jsgotangcowait08:23
jsgotangcooh ok i know how now08:25
jsgotangcothanks for reminding08:25
jsgotangcoi wasnt told about doing messages on commits08:25
Burgundavia-m (AFAIR) on the command line08:32
Burgundaviasorry, I have never used esvn08:32
Burgundaviait must pop something up08:32
froudjsgotangco: when you commit you have a large text field for your message08:32
jsgotangcoi got it on esvn now08:33
jsgotangcohave you seen the linuxjournal article on ubuntu08:34
froudno link08:34
jsgotangcohttp://www.linuxjournal.com/article/825308:34
jsgotangco"Ubuntu's sponsor, Canonical Ltd., has the necessary funding and a history of succeeding quickly and efficiently."08:35
frouddunno what history that woul dbe08:35
froudI dont think Marks success with Thwarte should be factored here08:35
jsgotangcoi know08:37
jsgotangcounless Ubuntu becomes so mainstream it becomes a Redhat in a few years08:37
froudAnd I think that people forget that it is community project sometimes08:37
jsgotangcobut thats a big gamble08:37
jsgotangcoyeah08:37
jsgotangcoUbuntu != Mark08:37
froudtoo much attention goes towhat Mark and Canonical wnat08:38
jsgotangcohe's the hogfather though08:38
jsgotangcowell mark's a businessman08:38
froudyeah, but to succeed, Ubuntu needs community acceptance08:38
froudand must remain with the community08:39
Burgundaviawe use zwiki, no?08:39
froudno idea08:39
jsgotangcoi believe so08:39
Burgundaviaok08:39
Burgundaviaugh08:40
jsgotangcoi want to react on the article08:40
jsgotangcohehe08:40
Burgundaviatheir issue tracker sucks08:40
jeffschnice to see ubuntu is growing in popularity. I guess that means the doc team will be growing too... the more users, the more people wanting to contribute08:42
froudyep, that is the bonus08:43
Burgundaviaahh, software isn't perfect yet 08:43
BurgundaviaI could scream08:43
froudBurgundavia: software never is08:44
Burgundaviaspent 1/2 hour arguing with my brother about why sepearation of programs is a good thing08:44
jsgotangcowe're growing08:44
=== Burgundavia is in rant mode, please ignore
jsgotangcobut who's pulling the docs from svn08:44
Burgundaviathen I check me email08:44
Burgundaviaand more crap to deal with 08:44
Burgundaviathen I check my WP wathclist, more crap to deal with08:44
Burgundaviaand then I see zwiki's issue tracker and I almost kill myself08:45
jsgotangcoi've been reviewing the docs everyday and i rarely see big changes08:45
jsgotangcoshouldnt we start doing more stuff now08:45
Burgundaviawe should08:45
BurgundaviaI have been lazy and haven't done anything08:45
=== jsgotangco is doing what he can
froudjsgotangco: I have an improved outline of the usr guide in works08:45
jsgotangcoi mean08:46
froudjsgotangco: I have a gubuntu / kubuntu isnatllation guide in the works08:46
jsgotangcothe lists looks like we're incredibly busy08:46
froudjsgotangco: it is to be expected08:46
jsgotangcobut i only see few doing action08:46
froudexpect it08:46
froudnot many people will contribute via commits08:46
jsgotangcoill just keep silent and commit08:46
froudyes that is the way forward08:47
froudactions08:47
frouddo08:47
froudcomiit08:47
froudget to the finish line08:47
=== Burgundavia do is better, but bitch is easier
froudyes08:47
jsgotangcotrue08:47
froudI see it time and again08:47
jsgotangcoits becoming like election time08:48
=== Burgundavia is really really not having a good day, and feels the need to tell everybody about it
jsgotangcopopularity posts ugghhh08:48
jsgotangcoi hate it08:48
jsgotangcoBurgundavia, i dont mind im having a bad time either08:48
froudjsgotangco: you just focus on the kwick guide08:48
jsgotangcofroud, sure am will do this no turning back08:48
=== froud hands Burgundavia a dirty hanky
Burgundaviafocus on what you are passionate about and ignore the fools (like me)08:48
jsgotangcoBurgundavia, you're cool to me08:48
jsgotangcoi like constructive bitching08:49
froudBurgundavia: how about some patches on the FAQ08:49
froudschool run08:49
froudbrb08:49
=== Burgundavia will now shoot froud and drag the body into the river for mentioning his lazyiness
jeffschI am working on a style guide. The initial doc plan for it is almost done08:50
Burgundaviacool08:50
jeffschwe will need a style guide for all those new writers we'll be getting :-)08:50
=== mdke reads emails
mdkesigh08:50
jsgotangcoright08:51
jsgotangcoi was looking at kde documentation last night08:52
jsgotangcoit was so clean and so professional08:52
jsgotangcoyou think the kde foundation hires people to do that?08:52
jsgotangcobut their screenshots are so outdated i noticed08:53
KinnisonMorning all09:00
jsgotangcohi Kinnison 09:01
froudjeffsch: commit the document09:02
froudjeffsch: do you have a commit account09:02
froudmorn Kinnison , when can we expect some docs from you09:02
jeffschi will commit tomorrow. I am tired and want to check it over before committing09:02
froudjeffsch: ok09:02
jeffschI also want to make a couple of wiki pages to support discussion and decision making for the document09:03
froudfair enough09:03
=== froud thinks jeffsch is gonna be our editor :-)
jsgotangcoweee09:04
jsgotangcowe need that09:04
froudmost important person on the team :-)09:04
froudhis way or the highway09:05
jsgotangcowe need a dictator09:05
froudjeffsch: what do you think09:05
jeffschhaha... in my dreams09:05
jsgotangcono a benevolent dictator09:05
jsgotangcohehe09:05
froudno I am serious09:05
jsgotangcoor a docteam pope09:05
jeffschI hope there is more than one person interested in doing that type of thing09:06
froudjeffsch: you wanna be editor and chief09:06
froudyeah but there must be a head honcho09:06
froudand you are the person for the job09:06
jeffschi wanna be world ruler, but I can settle for editor09:06
jsgotangcowoo09:06
jsgotangcoits settled then09:06
froudOk now you need to get an editing team that will conform to your specs09:07
jeffschI was hoping to be a bit more collaborative...09:07
froudand ohh.... get a wip it may come in handy09:07
jsgotangcowhips are good09:07
=== froud hands jeffsch his handcuffs
froudI think Kinnison may have some intersting toys to lend you09:08
froudjeffsch: it will be collaborative09:08
froudbut I think we need a person who is in charge of it09:08
froudsince you are doing a style guide you are th emost qualified09:08
froudI love my editors09:09
froudas every writer should09:09
jsgotangcoi can make you coffee09:10
jsgotangcoeditors like coffee dont they09:10
froudBurgundavia gives great foot massages09:10
Burgundaviahuh?09:10
jsgotangcojust dont be like J. Jonah Jameson09:10
Burgundaviawhere did you dig up that dirt?09:10
froudwe wont tell you want Kinnison is good at, leave it as a surprise09:10
jsgotangcojeffsch seems overwhelmed09:11
=== Kinnison sits and gets very worried
jeffschmy attention is wandering to The Daily Show on TV...09:11
Kinnisonfroud: Trust me, you don't want documentation from me09:11
froudKinnison: oh yes we do09:11
jsgotangcosure we do09:12
KinnisonBurgundavia: back me up here09:12
jsgotangcosissy09:12
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=== froud looks back at Kinnison
Kinnisonagain I say, trust me, you don't want documentation from me09:13
jsgotangcoyou dont want an angry african eh09:13
froudKinnison: why not?09:13
froudKinnison: you are part of the furniture here, so may as well09:14
jsgotangcowe can always throw Kinnison for wiki work09:14
jsgotangcohe'd love that09:14
=== Kinnison isn't very good at writing docs, I don't understand the toolchain, I dislike svn and wikis dramatically and I spend all my work hours on Launchpad and my non-work hours on running my hosting ISP and writing my own code
Kinnisonall adds up to a sucky person to give doc jobs to :-)09:15
froudAh ha we have a coder09:15
jsgotangcowhat are you doing in Launchpad?09:15
froudKinnison: hows your python?09:15
=== jsgotangco nefarious looks as something is cooking...
Kinnisonfroud: it works09:15
froudand jscript?09:16
Kinnisonit doesn't09:16
froudHmmm09:16
jsgotangco1 of 2 ain't bad09:16
=== froud thinks Kinnison could come in handy for a custom help system?
=== Kinnison doesn't write guis
KinnisonIf you want to look at the sorts of things I do write, look at my arch repository09:17
Kinnisonhttp://arch.digital-scurf.org/09:18
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jsgotangcoaranha, dists, ksp-tools, onak09:19
jsgotangcothis is all klingon to me09:19
Lizgreetings all09:19
froudlinux chick09:20
jsgotangcook i see bazaar thats one thing i only recognized09:20
froudhowzit09:20
jsgotangcohi Liz09:20
Lizgood thanks..how are you both?09:20
=== froud thinks we need to give Liz some work
Kinnisonjsgotangco: aranha is my baby09:20
jsgotangcofroud, aye09:21
Liznooo..not work09:21
Lizheh09:21
froudLiz: how about the user guide09:21
jsgotangcoKinnison, ahh...im not to familiar with this but what does it do?09:21
Kinnisonjsgotangco: aranha is a web app dev platform09:21
=== Kinnison admits that the rewrite isn't going as quickly as he'd like though
Liztheres more additions to make?09:21
jsgotangcomost of the things you do are for bazaar?09:21
Lizi need to svn the thing first09:21
Lizlet me go do that first09:22
Kinnisonjsgotangco: No, I keep my code in bazaar09:22
=== Kinnison has done some baz work though
froudLiz: ok let us know when you are ready09:22
froudOK I am now in work mode, c ya later09:22
jsgotangcoi see i understand now09:22
jsgotangcoisn't aranha portuguese09:23
jsgotangcoarachnid or something09:24
jsgotangcojeffsch, do you think its ok to edit global.net if i need to add some more09:28
jsgotangcoor do i ask froud-work first09:28
froud-workjsgotangco: you should do so if you feel that it is warranted09:29
Lizok its loading now09:32
jsgotangcoyay09:38
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Lizgonna go make some dinner while this is loading09:51
Lizbbiab09:51
Lizhi sivang09:51
sivangHe Liz 09:51
sivangLiz: 'sup?09:51
Lizdinner..bbiab09:51
sivangLiz: laterz09:51
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jeffschok, I'm off to bed. cyall later.09:54
jsgotangconight09:54
Lizbbl09:57
jsgotangcolater people im going out11:12
froud-workc ya11:12
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sivangHas anyone seen enrico lately?03:03
BurgundaviaI think he showed up yesterday03:05
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sivangBurgundavia: eh, I see, what's up? how's documentationg going?03:05
sivanghey li03:05
Lizhey sivang 03:06
Lizhow are you?03:06
sivangLiz: fine, busy , but cool :)03:06
sivangLiz: are you going to attend UDU?03:06
Lizudu?03:06
Lizwhats UDU?03:06
BurgundaviaUbuntuDownUnder03:07
BurgundaviaI wish I could be there03:07
Burgundaviadammit03:07
Lizoh yeah..its in sydney03:07
Lizim waiting for the "where, time, how much"03:07
Lizbut so far, i havent seen anything 03:08
Burgundavianext week03:08
Burgundaviafree once you get there03:08
Burgundaviaas for location see the udu wiki03:08
Lizahhh..is that where it is03:13
Lizthey are having an installfest there as well03:13
Lizi should volunteer03:13
=== Burgundavia thinks evil thoughts about installing FC3
Lizokjust signed up03:28
Lizi dont think they realised that the 25th is anzac day down here03:29
Burgundaviaanzac day is a holiday no?03:32
Burgundaviamuch like remembrance/veterans day?03:32
Lizyes03:39
Lizit shouldnt matter too much 03:40
Lizsigh..between classes and it taking me an hour to get up there03:46
Lizits going to be a fun week03:46
Lizand on that note03:46
Lizim off to bed03:46
Liznite all03:46
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mdkeevenin claude08:40
claudehi08:40
claudemuch traffic these days on the list08:41
mdkeindeed08:41
mdkelots of words08:41
mdkelots of ideas too :)08:41
claudewhen you're off 2 or 3 days, it takes a lot of times to get the train :)08:41
claudeyeah08:41
mdkeyeah i bet08:42
mdkeclaude, gmane can be useful to follow threads08:42
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claudefor now i will be most an observer08:43
mdkeclaude, we are working on a new method for translations: we hope to get some new translations into hoary (e.g. of quickguide through rosetta)08:43
mdkei am doing a write up of what we hope to do this evening, and will post on the wiki/list08:43
clauderosetta is still so bugged :(08:44
claudewhat about integration into lang-pack ?08:44
mdkenot a chance ;)08:44
mdkeafaik the lang-packs are really centered around interfaces rather than documentation. but you could speak to pitti about it if you like08:44
claudeyou talked with Carlos about it ?08:45
mdkeyes08:45
mdkeat length ;)08:45
claudehe he08:45
mdkei'll try and finish the writeup tonight08:46
claudei think that all documentation should be exempted of freezing08:47
claudeis it against debian rules ?08:47
mdkewell the main documentation has to be frozen really, or translation is difficult IMO08:47
mdkeclaude, but I don't think translation documentation uploads will be a problem08:48
mdkecarlos thought they wouldn't be08:48
claudehope so08:48
mdkeif we sort out the logistics, we'll contact mdz08:48
mdkebrb08:49
claudek08:49
mdkeback09:00
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mdkeclaude, have updated the l18n page, if there are any inclarities or inaccuracies please let me know10:05
claudemdke: need to review, but i think all this is still too complicated10:23
mdkeclaude, tell me more10:24
claudeabout special characters, i did'nt use entities when translating in French10:25
claudei left them in UTF-810:25
mdkefine10:26
mdkeclaude, what is too complicated?10:27
claudemdke: not your explanations, but the entire process10:27
mdkethere is not much more we can simplify it10:28
claudenot sure about the "make po" or "make pot"10:28
claudethink the i18n.sh script all this stuff10:28
claudemust check with froud10:28
mdkefroud will have to check that, I know nothing about it10:28
claudemaybe there should be a document for translators10:30
claudeand another one for what happens "behind the scene"10:30
mdkeclaude, to be honest, nothing on that page is for translators really, all they have to know is how rosetta works, and there are separate pages for that10:30
claudek, maybe this should be more clear on that page10:32
mdkeyes you are probably right10:32
mdkei'll add an introduction10:32
claudeunless we risk to frighten i18n (or l10n) volunteers10:32
mdkeyeah ok10:33
mdkeclaude, added an introduction10:41
mdkethanks for noticing that10:42
claudegreat10:42
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