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[03:01] <zdsl> hello
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[03:44] <jalrnc> hello, is anyone experiencing problems with the ubuntu wiki? I'm not able to save pages after editing... preview works fine though.
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[05:36] <GeorgeDeka> hi all
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[06:02] <jsgotangco> wassup
[06:02] <jsgotangco> gimme some docteam luv
[06:06] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[06:06] <jsgotangco> i will be talking to myself
[06:06] <jsgotangco> at least the logs are getting this
[06:06] <jsgotangco> there are a lot of discussions on the list and mostly are enthusiastic about the docteam projects
[06:06] <jsgotangco> but how come no one is pulling docs from the existing svn
[06:07] <jsgotangco> i can only see very few commits t the moment and its mostly minor changes
[06:07] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[06:07] <jsgotangco> am i seeing a pattern
[06:12] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[06:12] <jsgotangco> i will check the logs first maybe something is being cooked
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[07:56] <jsgotangco> hmm
[07:57] <froud> African Greetings
[07:58] <jsgotangco> hi froud
[07:58] <froud> morn
[07:58] <jsgotangco> i see enrico checked on things
[07:59] <froud> sure, he is a bit busy but we can always count on him
[07:59] <froud> hows your kwick guide doing
[07:59] <jsgotangco> froud, im committing a draft you might want to see it
[08:00] <froud> yeah, cool
[08:00] <jsgotangco> ive taken consideration of the nature of the quick guide
[08:00] <jsgotangco> you're right merging would be horrible
[08:00] <froud> good, commit often is better, that wasy we can collabortate easier
[08:01] <jsgotangco> im doing stuff on aboutkubuntu.xml as well but i will commit them later when i make some comments
[08:01] <froud> ok
[08:02] <jsgotangco> ill be installing qemu later so i can get screens of plain kubuntu
[08:03] <jsgotangco> check how it works
[08:03] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, just use the livecd, it is easier and (AFAIK) looks the same
[08:04] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[08:04] <Burgundavia> thus would you start with qemu -cdrom kbuntu.iso
[08:04] <jsgotangco> ok i'll download it
[08:04] <Burgundavia> now that is very very slow
[08:04] <Burgundavia> my 2500+ takes about 15 minutes to boot any livecde
[08:04] <jsgotangco> i havent slept that much so im a bit tired i've watched the new pope
[08:17] <jsgotangco> http://www.wordpress.tokyotimes.org/index.php?p=518
[08:17] <jsgotangco> haha
[08:18] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, do you know how to leave a message for your svn commits? Makes it easier to say what has changed
[08:22] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[08:23] <jsgotangco> there is no such thing as than on esvn
[08:23] <jsgotangco> i maybe wrong
[08:23] <jsgotangco> wait
[08:25] <jsgotangco> oh ok i know how now
[08:25] <jsgotangco> thanks for reminding
[08:25] <jsgotangco> i wasnt told about doing messages on commits
[08:32] <Burgundavia> -m (AFAIR) on the command line
[08:32] <Burgundavia> sorry, I have never used esvn
[08:32] <Burgundavia> it must pop something up
[08:32] <froud> jsgotangco: when you commit you have a large text field for your message
[08:33] <jsgotangco> i got it on esvn now
[08:34] <jsgotangco> have you seen the linuxjournal article on ubuntu
[08:34] <froud> no link
[08:34] <jsgotangco> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8253
[08:35] <jsgotangco> "Ubuntu's sponsor, Canonical Ltd., has the necessary funding and a history of succeeding quickly and efficiently."
[08:35] <froud> dunno what history that woul dbe
[08:35] <froud> I dont think Marks success with Thwarte should be factored here
[08:37] <jsgotangco> i know
[08:37] <jsgotangco> unless Ubuntu becomes so mainstream it becomes a Redhat in a few years
[08:37] <froud> And I think that people forget that it is community project sometimes
[08:37] <jsgotangco> but thats a big gamble
[08:37] <jsgotangco> yeah
[08:37] <jsgotangco> Ubuntu != Mark
[08:38] <froud> too much attention goes towhat Mark and Canonical wnat
[08:38] <jsgotangco> he's the hogfather though
[08:38] <jsgotangco> well mark's a businessman
[08:38] <froud> yeah, but to succeed, Ubuntu needs community acceptance
[08:39] <froud> and must remain with the community
[08:39] <Burgundavia> we use zwiki, no?
[08:39] <froud> no idea
[08:39] <jsgotangco> i believe so
[08:39] <Burgundavia> ok
[08:40] <Burgundavia> ugh
[08:40] <jsgotangco> i want to react on the article
[08:40] <jsgotangco> hehe
[08:40] <Burgundavia> their issue tracker sucks
[08:42] <jeffsch> nice to see ubuntu is growing in popularity. I guess that means the doc team will be growing too... the more users, the more people wanting to contribute
[08:43] <froud> yep, that is the bonus
[08:43] <Burgundavia> ahh, software isn't perfect yet 
[08:43] <Burgundavia> I could scream
[08:44] <froud> Burgundavia: software never is
[08:44] <Burgundavia> spent 1/2 hour arguing with my brother about why sepearation of programs is a good thing
[08:44] <jsgotangco> we're growing
=== Burgundavia is in rant mode, please ignore
[08:44] <jsgotangco> but who's pulling the docs from svn
[08:44] <Burgundavia> then I check me email
[08:44] <Burgundavia> and more crap to deal with 
[08:44] <Burgundavia> then I check my WP wathclist, more crap to deal with
[08:45] <Burgundavia> and then I see zwiki's issue tracker and I almost kill myself
[08:45] <jsgotangco> i've been reviewing the docs everyday and i rarely see big changes
[08:45] <jsgotangco> shouldnt we start doing more stuff now
[08:45] <Burgundavia> we should
[08:45] <Burgundavia> I have been lazy and haven't done anything
=== jsgotangco is doing what he can
[08:45] <froud> jsgotangco: I have an improved outline of the usr guide in works
[08:46] <jsgotangco> i mean
[08:46] <froud> jsgotangco: I have a gubuntu / kubuntu isnatllation guide in the works
[08:46] <jsgotangco> the lists looks like we're incredibly busy
[08:46] <froud> jsgotangco: it is to be expected
[08:46] <jsgotangco> but i only see few doing action
[08:46] <froud> expect it
[08:46] <froud> not many people will contribute via commits
[08:46] <jsgotangco> ill just keep silent and commit
[08:47] <froud> yes that is the way forward
[08:47] <froud> actions
[08:47] <froud> do
[08:47] <froud> comiit
[08:47] <froud> get to the finish line
=== Burgundavia do is better, but bitch is easier
[08:47] <froud> yes
[08:47] <jsgotangco> true
[08:47] <froud> I see it time and again
[08:48] <jsgotangco> its becoming like election time
=== Burgundavia is really really not having a good day, and feels the need to tell everybody about it
[08:48] <jsgotangco> popularity posts ugghhh
[08:48] <jsgotangco> i hate it
[08:48] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, i dont mind im having a bad time either
[08:48] <froud> jsgotangco: you just focus on the kwick guide
[08:48] <jsgotangco> froud, sure am will do this no turning back
=== froud hands Burgundavia a dirty hanky
[08:48] <Burgundavia> focus on what you are passionate about and ignore the fools (like me)
[08:48] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, you're cool to me
[08:49] <jsgotangco> i like constructive bitching
[08:49] <froud> Burgundavia: how about some patches on the FAQ
[08:49] <froud> school run
[08:49] <froud> brb
=== Burgundavia will now shoot froud and drag the body into the river for mentioning his lazyiness
[08:50] <jeffsch> I am working on a style guide. The initial doc plan for it is almost done
[08:50] <Burgundavia> cool
[08:50] <jeffsch> we will need a style guide for all those new writers we'll be getting :-)
=== mdke reads emails
[08:50] <mdke> sigh
[08:51] <jsgotangco> right
[08:52] <jsgotangco> i was looking at kde documentation last night
[08:52] <jsgotangco> it was so clean and so professional
[08:52] <jsgotangco> you think the kde foundation hires people to do that?
[08:53] <jsgotangco> but their screenshots are so outdated i noticed
[09:00] <Kinnison> Morning all
[09:01] <jsgotangco> hi Kinnison 
[09:02] <froud> jeffsch: commit the document
[09:02] <froud> jeffsch: do you have a commit account
[09:02] <froud> morn Kinnison , when can we expect some docs from you
[09:02] <jeffsch> i will commit tomorrow. I am tired and want to check it over before committing
[09:02] <froud> jeffsch: ok
[09:03] <jeffsch> I also want to make a couple of wiki pages to support discussion and decision making for the document
[09:03] <froud> fair enough
=== froud thinks jeffsch is gonna be our editor :-)
[09:04] <jsgotangco> weee
[09:04] <jsgotangco> we need that
[09:04] <froud> most important person on the team :-)
[09:05] <froud> his way or the highway
[09:05] <jsgotangco> we need a dictator
[09:05] <froud> jeffsch: what do you think
[09:05] <jeffsch> haha... in my dreams
[09:05] <jsgotangco> no a benevolent dictator
[09:05] <jsgotangco> hehe
[09:05] <froud> no I am serious
[09:05] <jsgotangco> or a docteam pope
[09:06] <jeffsch> I hope there is more than one person interested in doing that type of thing
[09:06] <froud> jeffsch: you wanna be editor and chief
[09:06] <froud> yeah but there must be a head honcho
[09:06] <froud> and you are the person for the job
[09:06] <jeffsch> i wanna be world ruler, but I can settle for editor
[09:06] <jsgotangco> woo
[09:06] <jsgotangco> its settled then
[09:07] <froud> Ok now you need to get an editing team that will conform to your specs
[09:07] <jeffsch> I was hoping to be a bit more collaborative...
[09:07] <froud> and ohh.... get a wip it may come in handy
[09:07] <jsgotangco> whips are good
=== froud hands jeffsch his handcuffs
[09:08] <froud> I think Kinnison may have some intersting toys to lend you
[09:08] <froud> jeffsch: it will be collaborative
[09:08] <froud> but I think we need a person who is in charge of it
[09:08] <froud> since you are doing a style guide you are th emost qualified
[09:09] <froud> I love my editors
[09:09] <froud> as every writer should
[09:10] <jsgotangco> i can make you coffee
[09:10] <jsgotangco> editors like coffee dont they
[09:10] <froud> Burgundavia gives great foot massages
[09:10] <Burgundavia> huh?
[09:10] <jsgotangco> just dont be like J. Jonah Jameson
[09:10] <Burgundavia> where did you dig up that dirt?
[09:10] <froud> we wont tell you want Kinnison is good at, leave it as a surprise
[09:11] <jsgotangco> jeffsch seems overwhelmed
=== Kinnison sits and gets very worried
[09:11] <jeffsch> my attention is wandering to The Daily Show on TV...
[09:11] <Kinnison> froud: Trust me, you don't want documentation from me
[09:11] <froud> Kinnison: oh yes we do
[09:12] <jsgotangco> sure we do
[09:12] <Kinnison> Burgundavia: back me up here
[09:12] <jsgotangco> sissy
=== froud sticks the dirty hanky in Burgundavia 's mouth
=== froud looks back at Kinnison 
[09:13] <Kinnison> again I say, trust me, you don't want documentation from me
[09:13] <jsgotangco> you dont want an angry african eh
[09:13] <froud> Kinnison: why not?
[09:14] <froud> Kinnison: you are part of the furniture here, so may as well
[09:14] <jsgotangco> we can always throw Kinnison for wiki work
[09:14] <jsgotangco> he'd love that
=== Kinnison isn't very good at writing docs, I don't understand the toolchain, I dislike svn and wikis dramatically and I spend all my work hours on Launchpad and my non-work hours on running my hosting ISP and writing my own code
[09:15] <Kinnison> all adds up to a sucky person to give doc jobs to :-)
[09:15] <froud> Ah ha we have a coder
[09:15] <jsgotangco> what are you doing in Launchpad?
[09:15] <froud> Kinnison: hows your python?
=== jsgotangco nefarious looks as something is cooking...
[09:15] <Kinnison> froud: it works
[09:16] <froud> and jscript?
[09:16] <Kinnison> it doesn't
[09:16] <froud> Hmmm
[09:16] <jsgotangco> 1 of 2 ain't bad
=== froud thinks Kinnison could come in handy for a custom help system?
=== Kinnison doesn't write guis
[09:17] <Kinnison> If you want to look at the sorts of things I do write, look at my arch repository
[09:18] <Kinnison> http://arch.digital-scurf.org/
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[09:19] <jsgotangco> aranha, dists, ksp-tools, onak
[09:19] <jsgotangco> this is all klingon to me
[09:19] <Liz> greetings all
[09:20] <froud> linux chick
[09:20] <jsgotangco> ok i see bazaar thats one thing i only recognized
[09:20] <froud> howzit
[09:20] <jsgotangco> hi Liz
[09:20] <Liz> good thanks..how are you both?
=== froud thinks we need to give Liz some work
[09:20] <Kinnison> jsgotangco: aranha is my baby
[09:21] <jsgotangco> froud, aye
[09:21] <Liz> nooo..not work
[09:21] <Liz> heh
[09:21] <froud> Liz: how about the user guide
[09:21] <jsgotangco> Kinnison, ahh...im not to familiar with this but what does it do?
[09:21] <Kinnison> jsgotangco: aranha is a web app dev platform
=== Kinnison admits that the rewrite isn't going as quickly as he'd like though
[09:21] <Liz> theres more additions to make?
[09:21] <jsgotangco> most of the things you do are for bazaar?
[09:21] <Liz> i need to svn the thing first
[09:22] <Liz> let me go do that first
[09:22] <Kinnison> jsgotangco: No, I keep my code in bazaar
=== Kinnison has done some baz work though
[09:22] <froud> Liz: ok let us know when you are ready
[09:22] <froud> OK I am now in work mode, c ya later
[09:22] <jsgotangco> i see i understand now
[09:23] <jsgotangco> isn't aranha portuguese
[09:24] <jsgotangco> arachnid or something
[09:28] <jsgotangco> jeffsch, do you think its ok to edit global.net if i need to add some more
[09:28] <jsgotangco> or do i ask froud-work first
[09:29] <froud-work> jsgotangco: you should do so if you feel that it is warranted
[09:32] <Liz> ok its loading now
[09:38] <jsgotangco> yay
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[09:51] <Liz> gonna go make some dinner while this is loading
[09:51] <Liz> bbiab
[09:51] <Liz> hi sivang
[09:51] <sivang> He Liz 
[09:51] <sivang> Liz: 'sup?
[09:51] <Liz> dinner..bbiab
[09:51] <sivang> Liz: laterz
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[09:54] <jeffsch> ok, I'm off to bed. cyall later.
[09:54] <jsgotangco> night
[09:57] <Liz> bbl
[11:12] <jsgotangco> later people im going out
[11:12] <froud-work> c ya
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[03:03] <sivang> Has anyone seen enrico lately?
[03:05] <Burgundavia> I think he showed up yesterday
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[03:05] <sivang> Burgundavia: eh, I see, what's up? how's documentationg going?
[03:05] <sivang> hey li	
[03:06] <Liz> hey sivang 
[03:06] <Liz> how are you?
[03:06] <sivang> Liz: fine, busy , but cool :)
[03:06] <sivang> Liz: are you going to attend UDU?
[03:06] <Liz> udu?
[03:06] <Liz> whats UDU?
[03:07] <Burgundavia> UbuntuDownUnder
[03:07] <Burgundavia> I wish I could be there
[03:07] <Burgundavia> dammit
[03:07] <Liz> oh yeah..its in sydney
[03:07] <Liz> im waiting for the "where, time, how much"
[03:08] <Liz> but so far, i havent seen anything 
[03:08] <Burgundavia> next week
[03:08] <Burgundavia> free once you get there
[03:08] <Burgundavia> as for location see the udu wiki
[03:13] <Liz> ahhh..is that where it is
[03:13] <Liz> they are having an installfest there as well
[03:13] <Liz> i should volunteer
=== Burgundavia thinks evil thoughts about installing FC3
[03:28] <Liz> okjust signed up
[03:29] <Liz> i dont think they realised that the 25th is anzac day down here
[03:32] <Burgundavia> anzac day is a holiday no?
[03:32] <Burgundavia> much like remembrance/veterans day?
[03:39] <Liz> yes
[03:40] <Liz> it shouldnt matter too much 
[03:46] <Liz> sigh..between classes and it taking me an hour to get up there
[03:46] <Liz> its going to be a fun week
[03:46] <Liz> and on that note
[03:46] <Liz> im off to bed
[03:46] <Liz> nite all
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[08:40] <mdke> evenin claude
[08:40] <claude> hi
[08:41] <claude> much traffic these days on the list
[08:41] <mdke> indeed
[08:41] <mdke> lots of words
[08:41] <mdke> lots of ideas too :)
[08:41] <claude> when you're off 2 or 3 days, it takes a lot of times to get the train :)
[08:41] <claude> yeah
[08:42] <mdke> yeah i bet
[08:42] <mdke> claude, gmane can be useful to follow threads
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[08:43] <claude> for now i will be most an observer
[08:43] <mdke> claude, we are working on a new method for translations: we hope to get some new translations into hoary (e.g. of quickguide through rosetta)
[08:43] <mdke> i am doing a write up of what we hope to do this evening, and will post on the wiki/list
[08:44] <claude> rosetta is still so bugged :(
[08:44] <claude> what about integration into lang-pack ?
[08:44] <mdke> not a chance ;)
[08:44] <mdke> afaik the lang-packs are really centered around interfaces rather than documentation. but you could speak to pitti about it if you like
[08:45] <claude> you talked with Carlos about it ?
[08:45] <mdke> yes
[08:45] <mdke> at length ;)
[08:45] <claude> he he
[08:46] <mdke> i'll try and finish the writeup tonight
[08:47] <claude> i think that all documentation should be exempted of freezing
[08:47] <claude> is it against debian rules ?
[08:47] <mdke> well the main documentation has to be frozen really, or translation is difficult IMO
[08:48] <mdke> claude, but I don't think translation documentation uploads will be a problem
[08:48] <mdke> carlos thought they wouldn't be
[08:48] <claude> hope so
[08:48] <mdke> if we sort out the logistics, we'll contact mdz
[08:49] <mdke> brb
[08:49] <claude> k
[09:00] <mdke> back
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[10:05] <mdke> claude, have updated the l18n page, if there are any inclarities or inaccuracies please let me know
[10:23] <claude> mdke: need to review, but i think all this is still too complicated
[10:24] <mdke> claude, tell me more
[10:25] <claude> about special characters, i did'nt use entities when translating in French
[10:25] <claude> i left them in UTF-8
[10:26] <mdke> fine
[10:27] <mdke> claude, what is too complicated?
[10:27] <claude> mdke: not your explanations, but the entire process
[10:28] <mdke> there is not much more we can simplify it
[10:28] <claude> not sure about the "make po" or "make pot"
[10:28] <claude> think the i18n.sh script all this stuff
[10:28] <claude> must check with froud
[10:28] <mdke> froud will have to check that, I know nothing about it
[10:30] <claude> maybe there should be a document for translators
[10:30] <claude> and another one for what happens "behind the scene"
[10:30] <mdke> claude, to be honest, nothing on that page is for translators really, all they have to know is how rosetta works, and there are separate pages for that
[10:32] <claude> k, maybe this should be more clear on that page
[10:32] <mdke> yes you are probably right
[10:32] <mdke> i'll add an introduction
[10:32] <claude> unless we risk to frighten i18n (or l10n) volunteers
[10:33] <mdke> yeah ok
[10:41] <mdke> claude, added an introduction
[10:42] <mdke> thanks for noticing that
[10:42] <claude> great
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