/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/05/06/#ubuntu-devel.txt

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tsenghi tfheen 12:36
tfheenhi tseng12:36
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lsuactiafneranyone here got an idea as to how i can compile a 32bit mplayer binary so i can use the win32 codecs to play wmv files?01:03
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pittiguys: does anybody of you know about bluetooth? Neither Thom nor I do, so we desperately need some technical support in today's BoF01:17
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ccpitti: i sort of fiddle with bluez, but we recently broke it in rawhide; i'd be glad to come along to the BoF01:21
pitticc: that'd rock, thanks01:21
ccpitti: but i dont know how bluetooth support in debian/ubuntu is like ;-) i'll learn i'm sure01:22
pitticc: it will already help to have sb who knows use cases and some general stuff01:22
lsuactiafneranyone here know how to cross compile 32bit binaries on a 64bit system? need to make mplayer use the wmv codecs that aint 64bit, realise i asked like 5 mins ago but need sleep now01:23
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tfheenlsuactiafner: the easiest way to do it is to compile on ia32, but you can also use gcc-3.4 and use -m3201:35
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lsuactiafnerthanks, going to try it along with a chrooted 32bit environment01:37
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lsuactiafner64bit mplayer aint of any use if it cant play wma files, there should be a mplayer64 binary and mplayer32 available to 64bit users01:41
lsuactiafnerseems its going to work01:43
schweeblsuactiafner: pretty sure all the libraries that it is compiled against have to be 32bit as well... so your chroot is probably your best option01:44
lsuactiafneryeh, didnt know about chroot01:44
lsuactiafnervery nice01:44
lsuactiafnercompiling mplayer as if for slackware atm it seems01:45
schweebhah01:45
lsuactiafnerhope i can execute the binary somehow to play wmv files01:45
lsuactiafnerwould i need to chroot i suppose to use this binary?01:45
lsuactiafnerhmm static...01:45
lsuactiafnershould try that01:45
schweebyea, static compilation should do it01:46
schweeb(no direct experience though)01:46
lsuactiafneryeh same, am basically a slackware user used to having many libs and development tools on my pc01:47
tfheenlsuactiafner: we can01:47
lsuactiafnerat first when i ran ubuntu i was like no way no gcc...01:47
tfheenwe can't ship the proprietary codecs anyhow01:47
lsuactiafneryeh, but there should be an easy way so anybody can run wmv files.. 01:47
schweebhopefully you discovered apt-get ?01:47
lsuactiafnerlike a warning 'continue if you dont give a hell option'01:47
lsuactiafneryeh found apt-get01:47
schweebthere may be something on the wiki for 64bit01:48
tfheenlsuactiafner: _we_ can't ship them.  We'd be legally liable and an easy target.01:48
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schweeblook on the wiki, there's the marillat sources, which are 32bit01:48
lsuactiafnerdont ship em, but give the user intruction how to get the codecs ect easily? wont that be more legal?01:48
schweebthey have mplayer in 32bit and the codecs01:49
lsuactiafneri got from mplayerhq 01:49
schweeblsuactiafner: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/RestrictedFormats01:49
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schweebbasically, you're gonna wanna make a 32bit ubuntu install in a chroot, and run mplayer from there...01:50
schweebwhich, you can use debootstrap to do01:51
lsuactiafnerah ok maybe i should read more01:52
lsuactiafneri got a 32bit slackware install already, might be lucky and have it work01:52
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lsuactiafnerW: GPG error: ftp://ftp.nerim.net unstable Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not02:04
lsuactiafneravailable: NO_PUBKEY 07DC563D1F41B90702:04
lsuactiafnerhttp://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/AptAuthenticationInstructionsForHoary followed those instructions02:04
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luis_is there a udu channel somewhere?02:26
robertjare you Louis Villa?02:27
toresbe"udu"?02:27
robertjubuntu down udner02:27
toresbeaha02:27
robertjerr under02:27
luis_robertj: luis villa, yes02:28
=== robertj smacks himself
robertjhave you checked the udu wiki?02:29
robertjI just did and didn't come up with anything02:29
luis_I have not02:29
ccluis_: that is probably well worthwhile to have; and also, someone better talk to lilo (freenode network) to not get annoyed with intern146.lnk.telstra.net02:30
robertjAFAIK all the past stuff has occured here since the name was finalized02:32
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Burgundaviampt, have looked at the latest stuff from gnome-power?02:34
mptBurgundavia: What's gnome-power? (i.e., no)02:34
Burgundaviampt, http://gnome-power.sourceforge.net/02:35
Burgundaviampt, the screenshots are old02:35
Burgundaviampt, I will dig up the link for the new ones in a sec02:36
robertjhaha, I love mubuntu02:36
robertjjust the name, the concept slightly disturbes me02:37
Burgundaviarobertj, mubuntu?02:37
lsuactiafnerlol02:37
lsuactiafnerrofl02:37
thom(tiny ubuntu)02:37
lsuactiafnerhow big is it?02:38
Keybukbuntu02:38
robertjkeybuk: thanks, I was looking for that char ;)02:38
Keybuk(my god, that's got an obscure compose map)02:38
KeybukCompose-u-/02:38
robertjKeybuk: there is a classical greek input method for gnome02:39
robertj;)02:39
robertjim-classical-greek02:39
robertjregardless though02:39
robertjthe thought that we are far enough from sid to need to do special mods for embedded use is kinda scary, isn't it?02:40
robertjand I don't believe that it's really true either02:40
mptBurgundavia: Are there any ubuntu-doc-ers at all at UDU?02:42
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hypatiampt: I'm there, and so is Jerome Gotangco02:42
hypatiaI'm only here today though.02:42
Burgundaviampt, froud and myself are not there. I don't knwo about jeffsch02:43
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hypatiajeffsch doesn't show up on the attendees list.02:43
Burgundaviathen i would say no02:44
lsuactiafnerok night ppl 02:44
mptdang02:45
Burgundaviaindeed, I would like to enjoy the aussie sun02:45
BurgundaviaI don't think froud could get the time away02:46
mptWell, we just could have done with some ubuntu-doc input for the Rosetta BoFs02:46
thomi doubt significantly we'll see any of the aussie sun02:46
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tfheenthom: we can spec stuff outside?02:46
Burgundaviapictures of lca show sun02:46
tfheenthe x40 is fine even in direct sunlight02:46
Burgundaviaother, inferior laptops may fail though02:47
hypatiaBurgundavia: alas, it is not penetrating the vibe hotel.02:47
hypatiampt: Well, I suppose I can sit in on launchpad bofs. Would that be useful?02:48
hypatiaI'm not sure there's a lot I can say about documentation compared to say, froud...02:48
hypatiabut since he isn't here...02:48
Burgundaviahypatia, yes, make them see the docteam light02:48
mpthypatia: yes please02:50
hypatiampt: I can come up now if you like.02:51
mpthypatia: where are you now?02:51
hypatiampt: I'm downstairs in the ubuntu one.02:51
mpthypatia: Well there's Rosetta1.0 at 2.30pm02:51
hypatiampt: OK, I'll be there.02:52
mptMaybe you want to talk to carlos or SteveA about exactly when ubuntu-doc stuff can be scheduled02:53
luis_I have a tiny bit of sunlight over here in the corner behind you, mpt02:53
luis_but I'm going to guard it jealously02:53
hypatiampt: I'll get spiv to introduce me in the next break I guess.02:53
carloshypatia: the ubuntu-doc thing is not scheduled yet02:54
hypatiacarlos: what do you want from it?02:54
Burgundaviaso how many of you are violating the 5m rule?02:54
carloshypatia: are you an ubuntu-doc member?02:54
carlosI was told that no one from the team is able to attend this conference02:55
carloshypatia: we will talk about the way to integrate their workflood needs into Rosetta02:55
hypatianone of the major documentation authors are here.02:55
Burgundaviacarlos, you were speaking with mdke, who is not their02:55
carlosBurgundavia: I know02:55
Burgundaviabut jstangco may have some idea about that02:55
Burgundaviaand he is there02:56
hypatiayeah, jstangco is better than I am for that.02:56
carlosBurgundavia: but he (mdke) told me that no one from the team can come02:56
hypatiaI will probably attend at least to give feedback to the ubuntu-doc list though.02:56
carlosI suppose any other member is aware of the team needs, right?02:56
ajmitch_hey this is jsgotangco02:56
carloshypatia: ok02:56
ajmitch_im here but my laptop cant connect am with ajmitch02:56
hypatiaajmitch_: where are you?02:59
ajmitch_here at mdz's session02:59
ajmitch_im the im the only asian guy here so im pretty spotable (jsgotangco)03:00
mdkecarlos, you need anything?03:02
carlosmdke: not atm, thanks03:02
mdkek03:02
mdkejust saw highlights03:02
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carloswill tell you when the bof is scheduled03:02
mdkecarlos, i'm not gonna be around for about 16 hours now... :/03:03
carlosdon't worry, I think it will not be scheduled until tomorrow03:03
mdkecool03:03
mdkeanyhow i may not be able to help much03:03
mdkeok cya i'm off to bed03:04
hypatianight03:04
mdke:)03:04
mdkehave fun y'all03:04
carlosmdke: night03:04
thomBEAGLE4EVAH! ;-)03:25
robertjthom: yeesh, what's got you riled up ;)03:26
bob2fabbione: how much do you know about sparc porting?03:26
fabbionebob2: it depends.. we have hoary and brezzy almost built on sparc03:27
bob2fabbione: (baz is ftbfs due to the test suite on sparc and only sparc, and runs fine if you gdb/strace it)03:27
tfheenrobertj: we're just cranking up the crack level here at the conference.03:27
fabbionebob2: baz is FTBFS because of gcc-4. i already told lifeless about the fix03:27
robertjhehe03:27
bob2fabbione: oh, no, this is in Debian with gcc 3.203:27
robertjbtw, is there an eta for beagle in universe?03:27
bob2er, 3.303:27
thomrobertj: needs new mono first03:27
bob2robertj: crimsum said post-udu, afaik03:27
thomrobertj: and new kernel03:28
tfheenrobertj: post-UDU, I think.  tseng should know more, but he has his laptop closed.03:28
fabbionebob2: meh.. i didn't check the FTBFS03:28
kokemoving :)03:28
bob2fabbione: I got clint to have a look at it, and all he found is that it works if you try to gdb or strace it...does that sound like a familiar bug class to you?03:28
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mptjordi!04:12
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jordimpt: Matt!04:27
luis_too late04:28
luis_:)04:28
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mptjordi: Yeah, we could have done with you up here for the LP1.0 BoF04:31
mptjordi: Will you be at the Rosetta 1.0 one?04:31
ajmitch_jordi!04:31
mptogra, where are you now?04:32
ajmitch_ogra is in sublime104:33
jordimpt: ah, damn it. I'm at edubuntu04:33
jordimpt: anything I can do now?04:33
mptjordi: you mean you're at edubuntu now, or at 2.30?04:33
jordimpt: I should be in that one yes, when is it?04:33
jordiI'm at edubuntu right now04:34
mpt2.3004:34
mptok, see you there04:34
jordiok, I'll be there.04:34
mptI'll be wandering between Rosetta 1.0 and Malone 1.0 probably04:34
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jordiajmitch_: yeah dude we need to meet somehow :)04:34
mptYeah, where's that kiwi ajmitch_ fellow04:35
ajmitch_sitting beside ogra04:35
mptok, just got to wait for baz to finish04:36
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mptcome on baz04:44
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jordidamn it04:52
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=== robitaille wishes I wasn't 10,000+ kms from Sydney this week...
Lathiatas do i05:13
Lathiatwell i think im more liek 500005:13
=== ctd doesn't mind being 0cm away
robitaillehopefully the next Ubuntu meeting will have live video feeds05:13
=== Lathiat whacks ctd
ctdI beleive canonical are paying per-megabyte on this connection05:14
hypatiayeah they are.05:14
Lathiatctd: ouch05:14
Lathiathow much per megabyte?05:14
Lathiatcant be as much as i pay at uni05:14
hypatiaI think they got a discount, but the DEFAULT charge from this hotel is 1c/kilbyte!05:14
tfheenhi Lathiat 05:14
hypatiakilobyte05:14
Lathiat(which is 4c)05:14
Lathiattfheen: hey :)05:14
tfheenhypatia: yeah, it's totally crackful, IMHO05:15
Lathiathypatia: wtf my phones gprs is cheaper than that, that cant be right.05:15
hypatiaLathiat: 1c/kb, capped at $30/50MB per day.05:15
Lathiatouch05:15
hypatiaSo if you use the full 50MB it's cheaper.05:15
Lathiattalk about making money05:15
hypatiaNow I assume Canonical is getting some kind of discount on that.05:16
Lathiatcus 50MB is $512 worth :)05:16
Lathiatwhat speed is the connection?05:16
hypatiaApparently all the hotels were very much "oh, wireless...um, yeah, in six months from now, we're totally going to have it!05:16
Lathiati can do 500MB for $99 on my *phone* anywhere, at 384kbps05:17
danielswe do get somewhat of a discount on that -- we have a given amount of data to use over the entire week05:17
danielswhere that given amount is rather trivially small05:17
Lathiatheh05:17
luis_glad I leave the country on wednesday05:17
luis_since if you burn the hotel down when the net gets cut off05:18
luis_still having my stuff in the hotel would be bad05:18
=== Lathiat grins
tfheendaniels: so we'll have used all the bandwidth in Australia by wednesday, then?05:18
Lathiati just got my connection upgraded to 1.5mbit05:18
=== ctd stops twenty btdownloadcurses processes.
Lathiati think if i was still on 512kbit after LCA i'd die of malbandwidth or something :)05:19
ctdnah, i'm only ssh and web'ing05:19
tsengssh -C for the win05:19
Lathiatyeh -C helps alot when im using ssh on my phone05:19
ctdyes.05:19
carloshypatia: where are you atm?05:21
Lathiatso i saw the veronica mars episode with the ubuntu reference, amusign :)05:21
Lathiator should i say, you-bunt-ooh reference05:22
ccLathiat: ssh on the phone ?05:23
Lathiatcc: well i use it on my laptop05:25
danielstfheen: itym tuesday05:25
Lathiatover bluetooth to my phone over gprs05:25
Lathiataltho its actually wcdma or something cus it uses the 3G stuff as opposed to GSM stuff05:25
hypatiaSo, if the next conference is outside North America/parts of western Europe, I really don't like the chances of streaming video ;)05:25
Lathiatwel05:26
Lathiatits just the shitty hotel05:26
Lathiatat linux.conf.au in canberra we had plenty of bandwidth05:26
tsengi keep loosing my link every few minutes05:26
hypatiacarlos: I'm up at SoftwareFreedomDay05:27
ctdyeah, but that was donated and all05:27
tfheenLathiat: it was slow, though.05:27
Lathiattfheen: no that was just the shithouse wireless05:27
ctdtfheen: Only at leechy times.05:27
Lathiatif you plugged into wired it was fine, or used wireless when not too many other people were arround05:27
Lathiati was pulling 1.4M/s from burgmann05:27
=== ctd labels Lathiat a leechx0r.
Lathiatctd: even tho it was donated05:28
Lathiatit hardly cost 1c/kbyte :)05:28
Lathiathopefully within a year or two bandwidht at uni will cost f**k all05:28
Lathiat3.5c/mbyte still hurts05:29
ctddata doesn't really cost anything05:29
ctdit's just to deterr leechers.05:29
carloshypatia: ok. I think you should attend http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/RosettaOneDotZero to give your team needs from Rosetta.. (it's after lunch)05:29
ctd(woo, I can speel)05:29
ccLathiat: well, my 3 phone requires a cable thing. gah05:29
Lathiatcc: i can do that too, having bt is nice05:29
Lathiatat least my phone is a standard mini-a usb cable05:30
Lathiatsony ericcson z1010, woo :)05:30
Lathiatcept canberra doesn't have a drop of three coverage, bastards.05:30
Lathiati was hoping to try a video call back to perth05:30
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ccLathiat: nifty; my bluetooth optarse phone costs too much05:34
ctdhow much is data on 3?05:35
ctdoptarse charge me 2.2c/kb on weekdays and 1.1c/kb on weekends for GPRS.05:36
Lathiat0.4c/kb all the time05:37
Lathiatthen there are various data caps that make it cheaper05:37
Lathiatthe biggest is 500MB for $9905:37
ctdthat's reasonabel05:37
ctdreasonable*05:37
Lathiatvodafone have unlimited for $4905:37
Lathiatno idea if 'fair use' aplplies05:37
Lathiatthe thing is you get 384kbps from three05:37
Lathiatand 200ms rtt05:37
Lathiatand you get like 56kbps and 1s rtt from most other providers05:38
GoneBoByeah but three you also get a compulsory molesting05:38
LathiatGoneBoB: eh?05:39
GoneBoBthey have some questionable business practises etc etc05:40
GoneBoBtheir product and prices though aren't too bad05:40
Lathiatdear god05:41
Lathiatthere website now contains the terms 'fully sik'05:41
GoneBoBcase in point :)05:41
GoneBoBprimarily marketed to people who can't afford it and don't need it05:41
GoneBoBI know someone who racked up a $1000 monthly bill05:42
Lathiatso my ubuntu has stopped recognising usb-storage and firewire-storage stuff, cant figure out why doh05:42
LathiatGoneBoB: heh05:42
LathiatGoneBoB: yeh but like, wha tbusiness isn't05:42
ctdLathiat: sik mate, sik.05:43
GoneBoByeah, just three is more so05:43
Lathiatctd: FULLYYYY05:43
ctdLathiat: subwoofer05:43
GoneBoBis hotplug still running?05:43
Lathiathmm, there are not any hotplug processes05:43
Lathiatlike the usb-storage driver is loaded, it prints otu the drive info05:43
Lathiatjust never creates a device or reads its partition table05:43
ctdLathiat: modprobe sd_mod05:44
Lathiatright05:44
Lathiati'll try that, bbs05:44
=== ctd assumes Lathiat has plunged into breezy
Lathiatctd: yuh05:46
Lathiati pent part of yesterday downgrading a few packages so mono adn evolution could work/be installable :)05:46
Lathiatthe problem isnt so much breezy as it is linux.conf.au and UDU :)05:46
Lathiatctd: woo05:50
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hypatiaajmitch_: are you coming to Rosetta One Point Zero?06:37
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hypatiaor maybe I'm asking the wrong person now.06:37
ctdanyone know if there's anything I can test vga-out on around the place?06:38
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Lathiatah06:39
Lathiatso yo uguys are on a telstra link06:39
Lathiatno wonder theyre paying pert megabyte :)06:39
ctdwho knows06:40
Lathiat12:39 -!- seb128 [~seb@intern146.lnk.telstra.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel06:40
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Lathiatso im assuming :)06:40
ctdyeah, i know it's a telstra link.. ;)06:40
ctdI'm on the thing.06:40
ctdBut who knows the whole charging thing.06:40
ccdaniels: can i just make a quick comment wrt USplash? maybe you want to scrap the idea (we're dropping rhgb too), because you might find that gdm-early-login makes more sense than a bootsplash screen (i'd like to come to the BOF, but i'd be at another one i reckon, so please keep that in mind)06:43
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Burgundaviaanybody in rosetta 1.0 bof?06:47
jameshLathiat: it's more expensive than telstra charges06:49
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Burgundavianev mind06:49
thomcc: you're dropping rhgb entirely accross the board?06:50
ccthom: yes, we are; at least thats the plan before FC-406:50
thomwow06:51
ccthom: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=15195206:51
thomthanks06:51
ccthom: so i'd reconsider if i were you.... 06:51
Lathiatjamesh: i know :)06:51
ccin fact, rhgb causes more issues to some degree... esp with mga and i810 now, we're finding that consoles don't show up anymore the moment X starts06:52
ccso even an init 3 doesn't work, because rhgb started up... 06:52
Lathiatdoes anyone know if its possible to get vesafb into a 1680x1050 mode?06:53
ctdeverything is possible06:53
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fabbionethom?07:00
fabbioneanybody close to thom that can pping him?07:00
hypatiaI will try.07:01
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thomfabbione: eh?07:01
fabbionethom: do we use readhaed on the liveCD?07:01
thomfabbione: yes07:03
fabbionethanks07:03
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thom(or so it appears, just had a look at a livecd)07:03
fabbionedo we tune what needs to be readead for the livecd?07:04
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thomnot afaik07:05
fabbioneok thanks07:05
thomwe may be better off not RAing at all, not sure07:05
sladenLathiat: yes, it is possible to use VESA to select weird/high video modes, but they are custom and the mode specific to that machine.  You must proble the available modes07:05
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sladenprobe07:08
Lathiatsladen: ah right, how do i do that?07:10
Lathiatsladen: or where can i find docs, etc?07:10
tfheenI think you can pass vga=ask to the kernel on boot07:16
tfheenhm07:16
tfheennoe, that's something else.07:16
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tfheenhi Simira07:30
Simiramornin07:30
Simira*yawns*07:30
tfheennah, post-lunch already.07:31
Simiraeeeaaarly morning, you mean...07:31
tfheenfor you slack norwegians, yeah.. :P07:31
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Simira:p07:31
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danielscc: righto, I'll bring it up, but I think people want it anyway.  cheers.07:38
ograSimira, germany isnt even up :(07:41
=== ogra is envious on tfheen and simira
Simiraogra: I guess. :-) I just arrived by the morning train, so that's why I'm up this early.07:42
tfheenogra: Simira is in CEST07:42
tfheenshe's just early up07:42
Simiraand the stores aren't open yet, either, so there's no breakfast07:43
ogramy susus isnt even here....guess she's asleep....07:43
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ccthom: ack. tell pitti i haven't shown up at the bluetooth thingo because i just finished some editing stuff08:04
Lathiatman im so missing out08:07
Burgundaviatell me about it08:07
Lathiatall these talks i want to be at because i have stuf to contribute08:07
Lathiatd'oh08:07
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cartmanjbailey: morning!08:42
cartmanjbailey: <waiting for this for days> thanks for glibc update!08:42
jbaileycartman: *lol* It's working for you?08:44
cartmanjbailey: yeah, appreciated greatly :)08:44
jbaileyCool.  I didn't have time to do much testing of it, glad it works for you.08:44
cartmanhow is UDU going?08:45
jbaileyGood, busy.08:45
cartmancool08:45
Lathiatyou didnt do much testing of a glibc update?:>08:51
lamont_rLathiat: I expect that means he only spent 2 days testing, instead of 708:51
cartmanLathiat: thats why there are users ;P08:52
cartmanto test stuff08:52
Lathiatcartman: you wont have any users if you botch a libc upgrade :>08:52
cartmanlamont_r: btw I got a bug for you a small one in case you have some time08:52
cartmanLathiat: :)08:52
Lathiatand i feel sorry for the maintainers of things like libc, i really do :)08:53
lamont_rcartman: in what package?08:53
cartmanlamont_r: console-data08:53
jbaileylamont_r: Are you calling me obsessive compulsive again? =)08:53
cartmanLathiat: true...08:53
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lamont_rjbailey: I'm calling you thurough.08:53
=== jbailey twitches.
lamont_rcartman: console-data isn't one that I've particularly messed with much over time...08:54
lamont_rcartman: best path would be to just file a bug - not really where I could do much right now.08:54
cartmanlamont_r: argh thats the wrong one.08:54
cartmanyours is about util-linux :)08:55
lamont_rheh08:55
cartmanand yeah its reported already08:55
lamont_rcool08:55
cartmanhttps://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=989208:55
cartmanI dont knows how S<foo> is selected so I couldn't possibly add a patch :/08:55
lamont_rupdate-rc<mumble>08:56
lamont_rI think08:56
lamont_rupdate-init.d?08:56
Lathiatupdate-rc.d08:56
cartmanno I mean how is it decided for a pack?08:56
lamont_rupdate-rc.d08:56
=== lamont_r is still debating whether that solution is the right thing to do or not... I figure I'll upload it sometime in the not-too-distant timeframe
cartmanlamont_r: I could swap init numbers of module-init-tools & hwclockfirst.sh08:57
cartmanwould that be accepted?08:57
lamont_rcartman: given that hwclockfirst.sh went to pains to run before modutils, I want to understand it before I change it.08:58
lamont_rthe fix is trivial.. the thinking behind it is not08:59
cartmanlamont_r: okies08:59
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ctdis there anyone in the building familiar with suspend on x86v laptops?09:36
tfheenctd: mjg59, aka matthew garret09:36
tfheen+t09:36
tfheenhe's in sublime1 atm.09:36
tfheenleading a bof09:36
ctdright09:37
tsenghe's running for pope09:37
Lathiatsavannah.nongnu.org ues anonymous cvs over ssh, evil.09:37
tfheenLathiat: nicey.09:37
i386Lathiat, lol09:38
tfheenI use that for my dotfiles.09:38
i386is there a point to that?09:38
=== tseng too
Lathiatnot using the shitbox known as pserver?09:38
i386anon cvs OVER ssh09:38
Lathiati386: ?09:39
i386never be minded09:39
i386Lathiat, Ycros got a job at my workies09:39
ctdit'd be nice if he could visit the installfest when he's not running for the pope or leading a bof09:39
i386starts tomorrow09:39
tfheenLathiat: it means you can trust the integrity of the connection after the initial checkout.09:40
Lathiatthats a good point09:40
jbaileyLathiat: I was one of the folks who co-wrote the bit for full disclosure on the savannah hack.  09:40
jbaileyLathiat: pserver bad.  anonymous cvs over ssh good.09:41
tfheenheh09:41
tfheenjbailey: actually, the whole CVS codebase makes you cry.09:41
Lathiatmy laptop seems to be running dog slow lately09:41
Lathiati wonder if its the nv open source driver or smeothing09:41
Lathiattho that cant really make it sucks in general that much id ont think09:41
Lathiatmaybe its ricerfs09:42
jbaileytfheen: The CVS developers make me want to cry.  The problem with the pserver exploit is that the developers *knew* about it, and claimed it wasn't interesting because it was documented in the release notes that any user could create a root exploit.09:43
tfheenjbailey: pserver as root bad.09:43
jbaileytfheen: Doesn't need to be, IIRC.09:43
tfheenjbailey: if you want it to be able to suid, it does09:43
jbaileyRight.  That's what it was.09:44
cartmanso we could just give security advisories and not fix bugs themselves :)09:44
Lathiatheh09:44
tfheenwhich you really don't need if you change the lock directory and only allow checkout over pserver.09:44
jbaileyUser with write privs drops a script in place.  anoncvs user does something that causes exploit in script, since that script is then run as root.09:44
jbaileylamont_r: "We appologise for the inconvenience" - God's last message to his creation.09:48
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lamont_rjbailey: that's japanese for "tough luck"09:56
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TreenaksUnfrgiven: please decide if you want to stay or not..09:58
TreenaksUnfrgiven: stop joining & quitting09:58
UnfrgivenTreenaks: sorry.... tryin to get bloody irssi to auto send the nickserv identify! it aint workin09:58
UnfrgivenTreenaks: only one way to test isnt there.... :(09:58
tfheenUnfrgiven: don't join any channels, then09:58
TreenaksUnfrgiven: well, you could turn off channel autojoin09:58
tfheenjust connect to the server.09:58
Unfrgivenaight ok... apologies09:58
Treenaksnp :)09:58
LathiatUnfrgiven: in chatnets10:01
LathiatUnfrgiven: inside the defintion for the serve ryou want10:01
Lathiatput10:01
Lathiatautosendcmd = "/^msg nickserv identify blah";10:01
Lathiatchatnets = {10:02
Lathiat  freenode = {10:02
Lathiat    type = "IRC";10:02
Lathiat    autosendcmd = "/^msg nickserv identify XXXXXXXX";10:02
Lathiat  };10:02
Lathiat}10:02
Lathiatfor example10:02
mike_douglasLathiat: thanks, I think I'll add that too10:03
UnfrgivenLathiat: ok thanks, ill give that a shot now... ill be sure to not autojoin this time :)10:04
Lathiati should put up my irssi config10:05
Lathiatdoes lots of stuff10:05
Lathiat:)10:05
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UnfrgivenLathiat: thanks a lot. that worked a treat.10:08
Lathiat:)10:08
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Mitariolo everyone10:29
Lathiatno ownder my laptops been running like a dog10:30
Lathiatit was stuck on 600mhz10:30
Lathiatstupid cpufreq bugs10:30
Treenaksouch10:30
Lathiatalso, why the hell does gnome-open on a .html open it in firefox when my preferred webbrowser is set to epiphany10:31
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=== Lathiat wonders what the preferred web browser setting actually changes
Lathiathttp:// url handler?10:32
tfheenLathiat: it has good taste, I guess.10:33
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pittijdub: ping10:34
fabbione     is anybody close to jdub?10:35
fabbionewe are waiting for him in sublime 110:35
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ajmitch_evening DrMiaow 10:37
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\shmorning10:45
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A_Alamhi carlos 11:18
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carlosA_Alam: hi11:23
A_Alamhi carlos, i want to join Punjabi lang team11:24
carlosA_Alam: just request that from the launchpad UI https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/people/ubuntu-l10n-pa/+members/+add11:28
A_Alamcarlos, I sent. There is spelling mistake at that page for "Punjabi" as "Punjavi". Can u please do something?11:30
carloshmm, my fault..11:33
carlosA_Alam: I'm a bit busy atm, could you file a bug report at https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/products/rosetta so I don't forget it?11:34
carloswill fix it as soon as possible11:34
A_Alamcarlos, nop, thanks11:34
carlosI fixed the name as it was Panjavi and seems like I mispelled it...11:35
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sivangHowdy all11:36
A_Alamsent:)11:37
sivangany interesting news from UDU anybody?11:38
sivangoh well, guess everybody's busy11:41
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louiempt: poke?11:44
louiempt: should I just not bother filing malone bugs? is that just going to annoy brad and bjorn? I'd sort of like to file a handful, at least, to explore the interface some, but if the code that is public lags what you guys have internally badly, it seems like probably a waste of everyone's time...11:46
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mptluis_: Depends what kind of bugs they are11:47
mptluis_: basically nothing that's an RFE, I guess11:47
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luis_mpt: at this point, only bug-bugs; RFEs I'll take up in person11:59
luis_though I'm taking down a list of those too11:59
mptok, thanks luis_12:06
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Unfrgivendoes anyone know when the schedule for tomorrow at UDU will be up?01:11
jdubUnfrgiven: very late tonight01:14
Unfrgivenjdub: bummer :) so much for goin 2 work 2morrow ;)01:15
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SlackShrikeGood morring02:08
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SlackShrikeHow to create ubuntu from scratch ? I am like a ubuntu.iso in my house !02:15
SlackShrikeplease02:15
TreenaksSlackShrike: what do you mean?02:16
SlackShrikeTreenaks: I would like to learn the process of build of ubuntu to create a CD of installation based on ubuntu.02:20
TreenaksSlackShrike: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LiveCDCustomizationHowToBr should be a good start02:21
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SlackShrikeTreenaks : This learn how to custumize the live cd and not the process of build02:24
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SlackShrikeI do not find in no place the process of build of ubuntu! where I can find?02:28
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SlackShrikeI do not find in no place the process of build of ubuntu! where I can find?02:38
TreenaksSlackShrike: the mailing lists?02:38
Treenaksand repeating your questions will not make it more likely that someone answers02:39
TreenaksSlackShrike: most people from here are in Australia at the moment02:39
SlackShrikeok02:40
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zulheylo02:47
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sladenfabbione: LTSP are also wanting to use kexec() http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientRoadmap03:00
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ograsladen, he is sleeping since 2h03:22
ogra(at least he said so)03:22
sladengah.  BTW, there's wireless with essid 'default' out the back ofhte building if it's be cheaper to NAT through that... ahem03:24
Lathiatinteresting03:24
tsengif by cheaper you mean stealing03:24
tsengsure.03:24
tsengive seen 4 or 5 different APs crop up03:25
ctdwhat isp does it go through?03:25
tsengedveryone on the hotel is on telstra03:25
ctdi know, I mean 'default' ;)03:25
ograsladen, yep, thats the neighbor building....03:25
tsengwell connect through it, and ill tell you your hostmask03:26
ctdthe wireless at vibe is just arse cost-wise.03:26
tsengthere is no wireless at vibe03:26
ctdI don't think I policed installfest traffic enough03:26
ctdI know.03:26
ctdall relates back, canonical ap -> vibe bandwidth03:27
ctdor atleast that "rooms online" thing03:27
tsengthat poor little ap03:27
ctdmeh, installfest had it's own AP. :)03:27
tsengim on UBUNTU from floor 203:28
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Lathiatim on lathiat, 5000kms away :(03:28
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ctdinteresting essid03:29
ctdi'm on drahtlos03:29
ctdpreviously on-site, now some amount of km away03:30
ogratseng, from our room ?03:31
tsengyes03:31
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ogratseng, wow.... sadly my antenna is bad....03:34
tsengmine is great03:34
ograor did they already install the new APs ?03:34
tsengwhen im not surrounded by 20 other wifi users03:34
tsengthen it cuts out every 2 minutes03:34
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elvirolohi all03:35
jdubogra: tomorrow morning03:35
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ograjdub, yay, great....03:35
elvirolodoes anayone know when/if Freeciv 2 will be integrated into breezy?03:35
ograjdub, are you guys through with your meeting ? 03:35
tsengjdub++03:35
jdubctd: the vibe prices on those pages are bollocks03:35
ograjdub, i see the BOF list growing constantly03:36
jdubogra: nup...03:36
ograargh03:36
ograwhat a conf....03:36
tsengogra: still no schedule, foo03:36
ogratseng, but a new BOF every 20min....03:36
tsengyes03:36
tsengi have 303:36
ctdjdub: I heard canonical got a better deal, but from what I figured it was still a use-least-you-can thing.03:36
Lathiatso no torrenting :)03:37
ogratseng, 196 in total.....03:37
Lathiatand someone run a local mirror :)03:37
tsengnot that much need03:37
tsengwe arent developing anything this week03:37
ograno time for that....03:37
Lathiatoh tahts right03:37
Lathiatsince yoru all there03:37
Lathiatno ones doing work on ubuntu :P)03:38
ograwith 196 BOFs to attend in 7 days....03:38
tsengyes03:38
tsengno work at all03:38
ograerr 6 days03:38
ctdlot of brainstorming03:38
tsengwe worked for nearly 12 hours today03:38
Lathiatanyone knwo how to make get gnoem 2.10 to display drives from /etc/fstab on the desktop (they do appear in places, drivemount)03:38
tsengturn on volumes_visible in gconf -> nautilus03:39
ogratseng, i wouldnt wonder if the daily schedule gets extended by one or two hours...03:39
Lathiattseng: nah thats for removable stuff03:39
Lathiatstuff from /etc/fstab no longer appears with it03:39
Lathiat(it used to)03:39
tsengadd users to the fstab?03:39
tsengas an option03:39
zultseng: you are all a bunch of slackers ;)03:39
tsengand remount03:39
ogratseng, but we are here to work, arent we ;)03:40
tsengi just flew 20 hours to meet jdub !03:40
ogratseng, its always worth it ;)03:40
Simiralol03:40
Lathiattseng: ah taht works, it used to be 'user'03:40
tsengLathiat: ok.03:41
=== ogra goes for a smoke to watch the flying foxes
ograi love them...03:41
Treenaksflying foxes?03:42
Simiraare there flying foxes in au as welll?03:42
Simiragee I wish I'd been there!03:42
Simiraor I'll tell Mithrandir to get me one...03:42
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jdubtseng: dude, and we've hardly had time to catch up03:43
jdubtseng: also, i want to learn your accent03:43
Treenaksjdub: what kind of accent is that?03:44
jdubtseng: midwestern?03:44
tsengpennsylvania03:44
tsengbut03:45
jdubtseng: which end?03:45
tsengyork, south middleish03:45
tsengthere is actually a book "you know you're a yorker if" about the weird stuff people do that sticks out03:46
cartmanhumpf new c++ packs depending on g++-4.0 is not yet uploaded, right?03:50
tsenghah dude, smoke that crack harder03:50
tsengwe will need to rebuild all of them03:50
tsengabi break.03:51
cartmanyeah I just smoked a big pipe actually03:51
cartmanstill got headache03:51
cartmantseng: check transition docs and it says upload would start around ~25 April, hence I am asking :)03:51
cartmanchecked*03:51
tsengright now c++ stuff is supposed to be using 3.3 or 3.403:51
cartmantseng: should be 3.303:52
cartman3.4 is not abi compatible either03:52
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ogra_GRRRR03:52
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tsengtime to sleep03:56
tsengjdub: schedule me harder03:56
ogratseng, meeting seems to be done, he is at the mao BOF here03:57
=== ctd still sees no schedule for tomorrow
TreenaksDue to lack of interest, the future has been canceled.03:58
ograheh03:58
ctdwoot.03:58
Simiraoh, go to bed now guys, so I can have a break. Please? ;p03:58
Simiraand can someone put Mithrandir online before he takes off?03:59
ograi actually dotnt know where he is....03:59
ogranot in the hall...04:00
tsengi think ill come back down rather04:01
ograheh... jetlag ?04:02
tsengya04:02
tsengowned.04:02
Simiraogra: he went for dinner three and a half hours ago, and said he's be back in two...04:02
ograSimira, hmm, i saw him at dinner... 04:03
tsengsidinners here are crack04:03
Treenakssinners?04:04
ograTreenaks, thats what happens with wlan in the eleavtor....04:04
tsengit is.04:04
Simirahaha04:04
Simirawhatever. I'll talk to him tomorrow. Or tonight, for my part in it.04:05
tsengthe rfc doesnt cover elevators04:05
ograbytes are puzzled by gravitation ;)04:05
Treenaksogra: depends.. is the elevator made of metal?04:05
ograyep, i guess04:05
tsengit holds 17!04:05
ograwow, dell builds great antennas it seems04:05
tsengits an intel chip04:07
tsengipw220004:07
SlackShrikewhen i use the live-cd to boot this return this message: "No common CD-ROM drive was detected" who can help me?04:07
ograhmm, i have an old orinoco silver....04:08
Treenaksogra: ah! old 802.11b m4dn3ss04:08
ograyeah04:09
cartmangcc 4.0 branch finally compiles kernel correctly too04:11
Treenaks\o/04:12
cartmantime wait for a new Ubuntu pack :-)04:14
cartman+to+04:14
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zulcartman: not without a lot of patches04:15
ivokshi04:15
ivoksdid anyone noticed anoying bugs in ubuntu?04:15
ivoksthere is one specially stoopid04:15
ivoksresult of brainless copying from debian04:15
cartmanzul: 4_0_BRANCH should be _ok_ now04:16
cartmanzul: unless proven guilty :)04:16
ivoksthe name of kernel image on ubuntu is linux-image, right?04:19
zulyep04:19
ivokssl-modem-daemon depends on linux-image, right?04:19
ivoksgreat...04:19
ivoksthen... make-dpkp creates kernel-image04:19
ivoksnot linux-image package04:19
ivoksand, even worse04:19
ivoksu can't create linux-image from linux-source04:20
ivoksonly kernel-image04:20
ivokswithout modifying debian/control in linux-source04:20
ivokswhy do i get this feeling that this was just copied from debian (debian calls his images kernel-image)04:20
ivoks:)04:20
ivoksthis should be fixed04:21
zulpatches accpeted :)04:22
tsengwhy would you use linux-source04:22
tsengmost drivers need linux-headers04:22
ivokszul patch?04:22
ivokstseng some people like their own kernels04:22
ivokszul there is no patch04:22
ivokszul i don't know how many packages are brokne this way04:22
ivokszul the thing that should be done is edit debian/control in linux-sources* packages and insted of kernel-image, place linux-image04:23
zulivoks: if you make a patch to get it working properly then it will most likely be accepted04:23
ivokszul who do i contact?04:23
ivokszul but this thing brakes lot of packages04:23
zulivoks: open a bug in bugzilla and add a patch04:24
ivoksok... it will be marked as ultra critical :)04:24
tsengmark it as normal04:24
ivoksit isn't norml04:25
ivokscouse look at this chain reaction..04:25
tsengthe release team marks bugs as critical04:25
ivoksi convert debian/control in linux-source to create linux-image04:25
tsengplease dont much around with it04:25
ivokstseng don't wory...04:25
ivoksand great, i create linux-image package04:25
ograivoks, youre not supposed to build a complete image if you need only one module...04:25
ograjust take the headers and build the module ;)04:26
ivoksogra well, i like to create my own images04:26
ograthen i suppose you know what to do ;)04:26
ivoksi know... but this is broken distribution04:26
tsengfwiw i built my own images from linux-source04:26
ivoksogra my kernel and modules work04:26
tsengso did zul, and fabbio etc04:27
ivokstseng great... do u use make-kpkg?04:27
tsengno?04:27
ivokstseng try04:27
ivoksit will create kernel-image04:27
tsengno, thats not the purpose04:27
zultseng: in a way i do ;)04:27
ivokstseng ?04:27
tsengare we talking about the same packagE?04:27
ivoksmake-kpkg - build Debian kernel packages from Linux kernel sources04:27
ivoksthat's from man, man :)04:28
tsengdude comeon04:28
tsenglet me explain please04:28
ivoksok...04:28
tsenglinux-image is created from linux-source source package with dpkg-buildpkg or similar04:28
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tsengmake-kpkg makes a custom local deb04:28
tsengyou are in total control of what it spits out04:29
ivokstrue04:29
tsengit wont look and feel like the ubuntu distributed debs04:29
ivoks?04:29
ivokstseng the whole purpose of make-kpkg is to create deb kernel image04:29
tsengi have no idea why you are mucking with debian/control04:30
tsengto use make-kpkg04:30
ivokslook...04:30
ivoksthis is the thing04:30
ivokson my lap i need nvidia-driver and sl-modem-source04:30
tsengwe have nvidia driver rignt in linux-restricted-modules04:30
ivoksif i don't tuch anything and try to create kernel images and kernel modules as deb with make-kpkg04:30
tsengyou should build the other module with linux-headers04:30
tsengnone of this has anything todo with debian/control04:31
ivokstseng man... i don't run linux-image*ubuntu*04:31
ivoksit does, listen...04:31
ivoksi get linux-source04:31
ivoksdo make config and configure the kernel the way i want it04:31
=== ogra gose for a last cigarette....
ivoksthen run make-kpkg to create deb kernel package04:32
ogratseng, dont forget we have to show up at 9:00 at the first BOF....04:32
ivoksand modules in /usr/src/modules04:32
ograivoks, just file a bug ....04:32
tsengogra: meeting daniel at 804:32
ivoksogra i will04:32
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ivoksogra i'm just trying to explain tseng where the problem is04:32
sivangHello all04:32
tsenghi sivang 04:32
sivangogra: 'sup ? ;-)04:32
sivanghey tseng04:32
jdubahr, home04:32
ivokstseng kernel and modules asre build and installed via dpkg, great04:33
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tsenggreat.04:33
ivokstseng then i try to install sl-modem-daemon and it asks for linux-image04:33
sivangHow is UDU going?04:33
ivoksthere is a problem couse make-kpkg is creating kernel-image04:33
tsengivoks: of course it does04:33
ivoks?!04:33
tsengwe cant depend on your custom kernel04:33
tsengwe have no idea wtf is in it04:33
ivokstseng omg04:33
tsengZOMGLOLZ04:34
ivoksthis distro is based on debian04:34
tsengfile the bug if you want, im going to sleep soon04:34
ivokswhole make-kpkg and building packages from source on debian04:34
ivoksah.. why am i even trying...04:34
tsengivoks: so make it call the package linux-image-foo04:34
ivokstseng i did04:34
ivoksthen sl-modem didn't want to compile04:34
ivokscouse that one depends on kernel-image04:35
ivoksu see the nonsense?04:35
ivokssl-modem depends on kernel-image, and sl-modem-daemon depends on linux-image04:35
sivangis there a channel for the conference happening?04:35
tsengwe have sl-modem scheduled for a bof04:35
tsengsivang: no04:35
tsengivoks: so sl-modem was never changed from debian to work on ubuntu04:35
tsengivoks: and we are back to waiting for you to submit a patch04:36
Lathiatthat works for me, wahts the problem?04:36
Lathiatoh, the deps04:36
ivokstseng i'm submiting :)04:36
tsengLathiat: kernel-image vs linux-image04:36
tsengits very late here, brain fried04:36
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Lathiatpfft its only 12:3704:37
tsengpfft ive been going since 4am04:37
Lathiatouoch04:38
Lathiati got up at 11 :)04:38
zulslackers04:38
tsengill be up by 804:38
tsengso, good night ubuntites04:38
sivangnight tseng04:38
sivangjdub: any schedule for the launch pad integration bof?04:39
Lathiati feel so duped04:39
ivoksnight04:40
Lathiatdamnit, my dog just chewed my copy of the new hoary cds04:41
zulbwahaha04:41
Lathiati only have one :(04:41
ogranight guyss04:41
sivangnight ogra04:42
zultoodles ogra 04:42
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ivoksthere...04:51
ivoksbug is filed04:51
ivoksi could create patches for this two packages, but, there are more packages which are broken this way...04:52
wasabiugh I knew hotplug would give me heartache at some point04:55
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nanophasehi05:05
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bluefoxicyno autopackage?05:52
Burgundaviahuh?05:52
bluefoxicyI can't find autopackage in breezy's repos05:52
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Burgundaviano in debian yet05:53
bluefoxicyhttp://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/gaim/gaim-1.2.1.x86.package?download  <-- autopackage -->http://autopackage.org/gallery.html05:53
Burgundaviathere is some debate as to autopackage and its usefulness05:54
Burgundaviasee the u-devel archives05:54
bluefoxicyI can see where that would come from05:55
bluefoxicyconsidering it's not alien, so it won't update the package manager05:55
bluefoxicyand it's not LSB so it's not really important05:55
Burgundaviaindeed, an the alien upstream says he is not going to support it05:55
Burgundaviasomething to do with not listed where files go in a good way05:56
Burgundaviathough I must admit it is very pretty and there does need to be something05:56
bluefoxicyit tries to decide where to put files based on the dist05:56
Burgundaviaick05:56
bluefoxicyyeah05:57
bluefoxicyI want it just to experiment with.05:57
bluefoxicyalthough part of using it may involve coding changes05:57
Burgundaviafrom what I understand the devel of autpackage is trying very hard to get distros to accept it05:58
bluefoxicythe documentation says that your program must be able to run from anywhere on the filesystem (which is a good thing), and that it should allow dynamic linking with libraries instead of compile time ./configure --options05:58
bluefoxicyand they also supply a tool to let you easily mark blocks of code to only be used if you have certain libs, and let that handle all the ugly dynamic linking code (dlopen/dlsym)05:58
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bluefoxicyso it looks like they've got more going on than "use our package manager"05:59
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bluefoxicyI think it may be potentially beneficial to popularize the software05:59
Burgundaviaanywhere on the fs is a good thing?05:59
bluefoxicyyes05:59
bluefoxicyfor example, some versions of GCC IIRC used to be ./configured to have a certain prefix, /usr or /usr/local05:59
bluefoxicyif you took a --prefix=/usr/local gcc and put it into /usr, it wouldn't run.05:59
bluefoxicythe idea of relocatable installation paths is that you can put it in /usr, /usr/local, or /home/usr/ or whatever06:00
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bluefoxicyrun-time dependency resolution is also a good thing.  If gimp can't find libpng, it should not support libpng; but if you then install libpng, it should now do png without you having to recompile or reinstall gimp06:01
bluefoxicythe autopackage people supply a tool to help code for this witohut making ass ugly code and throwing function pointers all over the damn place06:02
Burgundaviaok, and are these ideas widely accepted? what about security considerations/06:02
bluefoxicysecurity considerations with runtime dep checking is the same as with buildtime dep checking, in so much that dlopen() checks for the libraries in the same way that ld.so does06:03
bluefoxicyi'll pastebin this06:04
bluefoxicyhttp://rafb.net/paste/results/1lc3fN44.html06:04
bluefoxicythere's a chunk of the dlopen man page06:04
bluefoxicyaside from that, relocatable binaries may only be seen as an issue if they're in your path06:04
bluefoxicywhich means that potentially having a PATH=.:* would be bad06:04
bluefoxicybut then again, why use a real program to attack a system that way when you can just make an 'ls' or 'gcc' program that's not really 'ls' or 'gcc'?06:05
bluefoxicythe implications are the same as without relocatable installation paths and runtime dynamic dependency checking06:05
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bluefoxicyAs for wide acceptance of these ideas, they're implimentation overhead.06:06
bluefoxicyit takes more work to make a good program06:06
bluefoxicywhat we have today is accepted as "good enough," and so people don't care to make it "better"06:06
bluefoxicythat is probably the only obstacle that will be encountered06:07
Burgundaviaok06:07
Burgundaviaso autopackage would require more work by upstream? (aside from the fact taht they now have to package it)06:08
bluefoxicyyes and no.06:08
bluefoxicyto create a .package would require added work in some cases, for the package to be relocatable on the FS.  This is not hard and I would imagine that a lot of programs are anyway.06:09
bluefoxicyTo make the package able to recommend instead of require most of the options currently specified at compile time (dynamic dep. resolution) would require a fair to heavy amount of work, but is optional06:09
bluefoxicyit is recommended, and better.06:10
bluefoxicyand just having distributions supply autopackage won't force maintainers to use it06:10
bluefoxicyso the only detriment to any distribution supplying autopackage is that they have to package it; it won't discourage any upstream support06:11
Burgundaviaand that of implicitly promoting something which is not really a good thing, security wise06:12
bluefoxicyas I said, the security implications are the same as vanilla dynamic linking06:12
bluefoxicyand of being able to set your PATH variable06:12
Burgundaviano, I am talking about installing random bytes off the web06:13
bluefoxicyoh06:13
bluefoxicythat's not exactly a "security implication" except for how letting a human touch your PC is a "secuirty implication"06:13
bluefoxicyinstalling random programs off the net is an issue with the user06:13
bluefoxicyRemember also that the LSB is heading towards IV support, so this will be possible later anyway06:14
Burgundaviabut you limit the security risk by promoting use of the repos06:14
bluefoxicyyes but you limit usability that way as well06:14
Burgundavianot really06:14
bluefoxicyI'm very user oriented.  I want Linux to have some way for independent vendors to shelve software that can be bought and installed from CD06:15
Burgundaviaas a system infested with spyware/malware is not usable06:15
bluefoxicyand IVs are not going to package 400 different packages for 400 different systems06:15
BurgundaviaI want that system too, but I only want it for stuff that cannot be packaged in a distro neutral way06:15
bluefoxicyit's impossible to separate it.06:16
bluefoxicythe system can't be inherantly designed so that spyware isn't installable but benign apps are06:16
bluefoxicywell, it can be06:16
Burgundaviabut you can limit the risk by not promoting installing out of a webbrowser06:16
bluefoxicybut you have to exclude some benign apps as well.06:16
Burgundaviaas users cannot tell the difference06:16
bluefoxicydude, the more warning boxes a user gets06:16
bluefoxicythe more he clicks through them06:17
bluefoxicywhen there's too many he says fuck it and installs windows06:17
bluefoxicypirated windows06:17
Burgundaviathat is why you never have install out of a webbrowser06:17
bluefoxicyfrom gnutella06:17
bluefoxicywith virus infections in the ISO06:17
Burgundaviathey are working on a new software map installer using pymozembed06:17
Burgundaviasee the UDU wiki06:17
bluefoxicyyes and gues what?06:17
bluefoxicyif ID Software can use it to package Quake 406:17
bluefoxicythen GAIN can use it to package Gator for Linux06:18
Burgundaviawe are not going to eliminate spyware06:18
Burgundaviabut if there is no installing out of ff/otehr web browser, then you are never going to have an issue06:18
bluefoxicyexactly my point06:18
bluefoxicydude06:18
bluefoxicypeople will go to the web, download the file, and run the packager against it06:18
bluefoxicyor they'll download spyware with a graphical installer.06:18
bluefoxicylet Firefox worry about Firefox security and spyware; they do a good job preventing it on Windows06:19
Burgundavianot really06:19
Burgundaviawindows doesn't solve the underlying issue of promoting random bytes off the net06:19
bluefoxicyusers don't just click "Yes" in FF on Win; they click "click here to download," then "open," then "yes I'm sure I want to open this potentially dangerous file"06:19
bluefoxicyjust like I went to sourceforge when gtk-gnutella was busted in ubuntu06:20
bluefoxicyand clicked the gtk-gnutella deb link, and ran dpkg on it06:20
Burgundaviamost people will not do that06:20
bluefoxicythen most people won't be able to install Doom3, because we don't have it packaged yet.06:20
bluefoxicyand so they'll decide that linux sucks and go back to windows.06:20
Burgundaviaand if you promote a gui software installer, which links into your repos, then you have gone a long way towards mitigating that06:20
bluefoxicynope06:21
bluefoxicyyou've gone a long way towards mitigating users installing benign software that they want/need unless they're technicians06:21
BurgundaviaI agree there does need to be a way to install non-free stuff06:21
bluefoxicybut it doesn't have to be repos06:21
bluefoxicyit has to be point and click06:21
Burgundavianot in a web browser06:22
bluefoxicyin or out of it06:22
Burgundaviacd distibuted stuff06:22
bluefoxicyok, listen, I'm only saying tihs one time06:22
bluefoxicya web browser and a CD are the same thing.06:22
bluefoxicyIf it's on a CD, I pop the CD in and click it.06:22
Burgundaviaweb browser point and click in inherently dangerous and will only lead to malware06:22
bluefoxicyIf it's on the web, I save it and then run it from nautilus.06:22
Burgundaviathere is a difference in how the user perceives it06:22
bluefoxicywhere do you see the difference?06:22
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bluefoxicyno there's not06:22
bluefoxicythe user perceives "I have a program I want to install"06:23
bluefoxicyand users are monkeyis06:23
bluefoxicythey'll stick their hand in the hole, grab the food, and yank continuously trying to get their fist out.06:23
Burgundaviano, users shouldn't have to think about this stuff06:23
bluefoxicythe more you put things in their way, the more they'll fight through it06:23
Burgundaviathat is why you promote the gui software installer06:23
Burgundaviaand cd based installs06:23
bluefoxicyGUI software installers should use packages.06:24
bluefoxicyinstalling software without using a package damages the system06:24
Burgundaviaabsolutely06:24
bluefoxicyit drops it in somewheere without keeping a record of what it just did with my system.06:24
BurgundaviaI don't disagree that all software should use the native packaging system06:24
Amaranthisn't autopackage supposed to solve this?06:24
BurgundaviaI just don't think that you should be able to install out of the webbrowser06:24
bluefoxicyanyway I gotta go06:24
Burgundavianp06:24
bluefoxicyyou can't possibley stop people from installing downloaded software06:25
bluefoxicyin the worst case they'll google for it.06:25
Burgundaviabut you can train people to not look there first06:25
bluefoxicyAmaranth:  i'm more interested in the alterior effects, such as runtime dependency resolution ("soft linking" wtf?)06:25
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AmaranthIf anyone here is an op in #ubuntu, please look now.06:52
mdkegosh06:54
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lsuactiafnerok to play wmv files native amd64 bit users need a staticly linking binary compiled for a 32bit system07:32
lsuactiafnerthen its possible for mplayer to use the codecs as it should07:32
wasabisounds about right07:33
lsuactiafneryeh i did it yesterday night. i once spoke to a guy here that compiles the mplayer package 07:33
lsuactiafnerwant to ask him to submit mplayer64 that will give better performance to play ported codecs07:34
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lsuactiafnerand a mplayer32 static binary for amd64 users to play wmv files..07:34
zygahello :-)07:35
lsuactiafnerzyga : was it you?07:35
zygalsuactiafner: meaning?07:35
zygalsuactiafner: ah, no07:36
lsuactiafner(;07:36
zygalsuactiafner: BTW with windows xp 64 around can't we get their 64bit codecs?07:36
zygaand another BTW: does windows xp 64 use 32bit internet explorer? if not they have no flash either, right?07:36
lsuactiafneri think the win32 codecs for mplayer are currently reverse engineered07:37
lsuactiafnerso it will take a brave soul to hack @ the 64bit ones07:37
zygalsuactiafner: if they are fully reverse engeered then where's the source code ;]  ?07:37
zygalsuactiafner: anyway you are probably somewhat right07:38
zygathey are modified07:38
lsuactiafneryeh not sure tho07:38
lsuactiafneranyone here got a 32bit unbuntu install they can use to make static binaries for amd64? since i used a slackware 10.1 chroot for it07:39
lsuactiafnerthink it would be best if a ubuntu system was used07:40
Lathiatare there any #ubuntu ops about?07:44
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zullsuactiafner: why dont you debootstrap a chroot for ubuntu 686?07:52
Lathiatlsuactiafner: also look at 'pbuilder'07:54
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lsuactiafneri dont have ubuntu 68607:57
lsuactiafnerand i'm on a 5k/s dailup in south-africa07:57
lsuactiafnernot gonna download a iso 07:57
lsuactiafnergonna check pbuilder now07:57
lsuactiafneri cant find into about submitting a package to ubuntu?07:58
lsuactiafnersince i think i'm not the only amd64 user that found not being able to play wmv ect annoying (even with all possible codecs installed)07:59
Treenakslsuactiafner: well, that has a reason..08:00
Treenakslsuactiafner: I think you can guess08:00
lsuactiafnerTreenaks : yes i know about not violating copyrights ect08:02
lsuactiafnerbut the problem is an amd64 system with a mplayer64bit binary cant use the win32 codecs08:03
lsuactiafneronly a 32bit staticly linked binary can08:03
lsuactiafnerso if i make  a 32bit staticly linked binary the user can go download all the codecs he wants from mplayerhq08:03
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Treenakslsuactiafner: yes.. the problem is mixing 32 and 64 bit stuff08:04
Treenaksbest way to solve this is complain to someone that he sent you a crappy file08:04
lsuactiafnerwell, i got a 8mb staticly linked binary that can play wmv files on my 64bit system. i just need to figure out how to spread it to other ppl heh08:05
lsuactiafnerccache > all08:09
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lsuactiafnerok making packages rely on programs that automatically recompile the source ect.. that wont work for me08:48
lsuactiafneri have the binary and all i want to do to is put the binary in a .deb packages to make it cp binary /usr/local/bin/08:49
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robertj_does anyone know if the hoary LiveCD has known problems on G5s?08:57
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wasabiYes.09:18
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tube013anybody have an idea why a patch would apply fine during a dpkg-build in my normal environment and then not apply in a chroot environment?09:55
lsuactiafnerchroot is differant?09:56
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crimsuntube013: dpatch?09:56
tube013crimsun: yea its a dpatch.09:57
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zultube013: what package?09:57
crimsuntube013: and you b-d on dpatch and invoke it properly in debian/rules?09:57
crimsun(or use the cdbs equiv?)09:57
tube013I'm kind of new to packaging, and am just getting started by reading some of the guides on the wiki, and the debian New maintainers guide.09:58
tube013ie.  you a little over my head.09:59
crimsunok, in $package/debian/control, do you have dpatch listed as a Build-Depends?09:59
tube013nope, however I have dpatch installed in the chroot.  if that is what you are getting after?10:00
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crimsunwell, you should still b-d on dpatch, because when you pbuild it, it still needs the explicit b-d10:00
tube013okay I'll add it to the control file and see what happens.10:01
crimsunok, so dpatch is installed in the chroot. How are you invoking dpatch in debian/rules?10:01
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tube013I started with an existing package, that won't compile with the current gcc, and made a patch for it, the existing package already had 2 dpatches which apply fine in both enviroments10:02
crimsunok, and you added your new dpatch to debian/patches/00list?10:03
tube013yup, its there.  03_make-buildabe10:03
crimsunok, so when you debuild binary, where is it hitching?10:03
crimsunI recommend you look at pbuilder instead of a plain chroot10:04
tube013it fails to apply my new dpatch.  however the exact same source directory and debian/ build with fine with dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -us -uc in my normal environment.10:05
tube013I tried pbuilder first got frustrated by the same problem, so I figured maybe it was a pbuilder thing10:05
tube013created the chroot, and re did the whole patch process in the chroot, but same results.10:06
crimsunis it failing outright due to rejections, or is it silently not applying it?10:09
crimsunplease upload your .dsc and .diff.gz to a publicly-accessible web site, and I'll look10:10
tube013well I just found that it is rejecting the patch10:11
crimsunso your dpatch looks to be invalid10:11
tube013yea but why would the same patch apply in my normal environment10:12
crimsunbecause your normal environment differs from your chroot10:12
crimsunmake sure the dpatch applies cleanly in your chroot10:13
tube013thats what I'm after....10:14
tube013here's the command I used to create the patch, after modifying 2 header files:10:14
tube013diff -Nru libmp4-2.0.0-orig/ libmp4-2.0.0 > make-buildable.patch10:14
tube013looking at the corresponding patch it looks correct, I then did the following to make it a dpatch:10:15
tube013dpatch patch-template -p "03_make-buildable" "make buildable on hoary" < ../make-buildable.patch > debian/patches/03_make-buildable.dpatch10:15
crimsun(on hoary or breezy?)10:16
tube013hoary10:16
crimsundoes it build with gcc-4.0?10:17
crimsuni.e., does your dpatch make it buildable with gcc-4.0?10:17
tube013the patch makes it build with gcc-3.3 and 3.410:18
tube013it changes a couple NULL's to 0's thats it10:18
crimsunok, test if that's sufficient for gcc-4.010:18
crimsunat this point, fixes should be targeted for breezy10:19
tube013okay,  I'll work on it.  thanks for your help10:19
crimsunnp. If you can pass me the dpatch, I'll see if I can reproduce your dpatch failure in pbuilder10:20
tube013okay, here is the dpatch: http://tube013.org/03_make-buildable.dpatch10:23
tube013its for libmp4 from marillat10:24
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crimsunk10:25
tube013hmm.  just looked at one of the targets, and it seems to have been patched.  geuss maybe I should try with out my dpatch on my chroot and see what happens.10:26
crimsunah, it's only in debian-marillat10:31
tube013yea I was trying to compile some packages from there and rarewares so not to interrupt with the ubuntu repos.  10:31
tube013turns out it compiles fine in the chroot without the patch.  I just wrongly assumed since I needed it in my normal env. I would need it in the chroot10:32
tube013shows me.10:32
lsuactiafnercrimsun : i made a static 32 bit mplayer binary for the amd64 architecture so that ppl can play files that need use the win32bit codecs10:38
lsuactiafnerbut my packaging for debian needs work, would you mind to look @ it and fix it up?10:39
crimsunlsuactiafner: 64-bit mplayer doesn't work with the 64-bit codecs from the amd64 debian-marillat repo?10:39
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lsuactiafnercrimsun : nope, i installed the debian-marillat mplayer but it didnt play wmv files even witht he w32codecs installed10:40
lsuactiafneri think its cause the codecs are 32bit and mplayer64, so not compatible, so my binary is mplayer32 and it can play wmv files if the codecs are installed10:40
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lsuactiafnerits also staticly linked so emulation is transparent ect10:41
crimsunlsuactiafner: please put a link on MOTUTodo10:41
lsuactiafnerMOTUodo?10:43
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crimsunwiki/MOTUTodo10:43
lsuactiafner"ftp://ftp.puk.ac.za/outgoing/mplayer-amd64hammer-32bit_1 1.0pre7-3.3.4-0.3ubuntu6_amd64.tar.gz" but ftp://ftp.puk.ac.za/outgoing/MPlayer-1.0pre7_32bit-for-amd64.tar.bz2 is cleaner10:44
lsuactiafnerk10:44
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lsuactiafnertho the package is really screwed up since i couldnt use the fakeroot ect tools since my chroot was slackware 10.110:47
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lsuactiafnerhttp://www.ubuntulinux.org/join_form gives me errors10:58
lsuactiafnerrather, gives me nothign10:58
lsuactiafnerlink bokren?10:58
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chuck_hey11:29
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Simirahey, can someone kick Mithrandir out of bed?11:56
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