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[12:36] <tseng> hi tfheen 
[12:36] <tfheen> hi tseng
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[01:03] <lsuactiafner> anyone here got an idea as to how i can compile a 32bit mplayer binary so i can use the win32 codecs to play wmv files?
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[01:17] <pitti> guys: does anybody of you know about bluetooth? Neither Thom nor I do, so we desperately need some technical support in today's BoF
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[01:21] <cc> pitti: i sort of fiddle with bluez, but we recently broke it in rawhide; i'd be glad to come along to the BoF
[01:21] <pitti> cc: that'd rock, thanks
[01:22] <cc> pitti: but i dont know how bluetooth support in debian/ubuntu is like ;-) i'll learn i'm sure
[01:22] <pitti> cc: it will already help to have sb who knows use cases and some general stuff
[01:23] <lsuactiafner> anyone here know how to cross compile 32bit binaries on a 64bit system? need to make mplayer use the wmv codecs that aint 64bit, realise i asked like 5 mins ago but need sleep now
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[01:35] <tfheen> lsuactiafner: the easiest way to do it is to compile on ia32, but you can also use gcc-3.4 and use -m32
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[01:37] <lsuactiafner> thanks, going to try it along with a chrooted 32bit environment
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[01:41] <lsuactiafner> 64bit mplayer aint of any use if it cant play wma files, there should be a mplayer64 binary and mplayer32 available to 64bit users
[01:43] <lsuactiafner> seems its going to work
[01:44] <schweeb> lsuactiafner: pretty sure all the libraries that it is compiled against have to be 32bit as well... so your chroot is probably your best option
[01:44] <lsuactiafner> yeh, didnt know about chroot
[01:44] <lsuactiafner> very nice
[01:45] <lsuactiafner> compiling mplayer as if for slackware atm it seems
[01:45] <schweeb> hah
[01:45] <lsuactiafner> hope i can execute the binary somehow to play wmv files
[01:45] <lsuactiafner> would i need to chroot i suppose to use this binary?
[01:45] <lsuactiafner> hmm static...
[01:45] <lsuactiafner> should try that
[01:46] <schweeb> yea, static compilation should do it
[01:46] <schweeb> (no direct experience though)
[01:47] <lsuactiafner> yeh same, am basically a slackware user used to having many libs and development tools on my pc
[01:47] <tfheen> lsuactiafner: we can
[01:47] <lsuactiafner> at first when i ran ubuntu i was like no way no gcc...
[01:47] <tfheen> we can't ship the proprietary codecs anyhow
[01:47] <lsuactiafner> yeh, but there should be an easy way so anybody can run wmv files.. 
[01:47] <schweeb> hopefully you discovered apt-get ?
[01:47] <lsuactiafner> like a warning 'continue if you dont give a hell option'
[01:47] <lsuactiafner> yeh found apt-get
[01:48] <schweeb> there may be something on the wiki for 64bit
[01:48] <tfheen> lsuactiafner: _we_ can't ship them.  We'd be legally liable and an easy target.
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[01:48] <schweeb> look on the wiki, there's the marillat sources, which are 32bit
[01:48] <lsuactiafner> dont ship em, but give the user intruction how to get the codecs ect easily? wont that be more legal?
[01:49] <schweeb> they have mplayer in 32bit and the codecs
[01:49] <lsuactiafner> i got from mplayerhq 
[01:49] <schweeb> lsuactiafner: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/RestrictedFormats
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[01:50] <schweeb> basically, you're gonna wanna make a 32bit ubuntu install in a chroot, and run mplayer from there...
[01:51] <schweeb> which, you can use debootstrap to do
[01:52] <lsuactiafner> ah ok maybe i should read more
[01:52] <lsuactiafner> i got a 32bit slackware install already, might be lucky and have it work
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[02:04] <lsuactiafner> W: GPG error: ftp://ftp.nerim.net unstable Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not
[02:04] <lsuactiafner> available: NO_PUBKEY 07DC563D1F41B907
[02:04] <lsuactiafner> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/AptAuthenticationInstructionsForHoary followed those instructions
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[02:26] <luis_> is there a udu channel somewhere?
[02:27] <robertj> are you Louis Villa?
[02:27] <toresbe> "udu"?
[02:27] <robertj> ubuntu down udner
[02:27] <toresbe> aha
[02:27] <robertj> err under
[02:28] <luis_> robertj: luis villa, yes
=== robertj smacks himself
[02:29] <robertj> have you checked the udu wiki?
[02:29] <robertj> I just did and didn't come up with anything
[02:29] <luis_> I have not
[02:30] <cc> luis_: that is probably well worthwhile to have; and also, someone better talk to lilo (freenode network) to not get annoyed with intern146.lnk.telstra.net
[02:32] <robertj> AFAIK all the past stuff has occured here since the name was finalized
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[02:34] <Burgundavia> mpt, have looked at the latest stuff from gnome-power?
[02:34] <mpt> Burgundavia: What's gnome-power? (i.e., no)
[02:35] <Burgundavia> mpt, http://gnome-power.sourceforge.net/
[02:35] <Burgundavia> mpt, the screenshots are old
[02:36] <Burgundavia> mpt, I will dig up the link for the new ones in a sec
[02:36] <robertj> haha, I love mubuntu
[02:37] <robertj> just the name, the concept slightly disturbes me
[02:37] <Burgundavia> robertj, mubuntu?
[02:37] <lsuactiafner> lol
[02:37] <lsuactiafner> rofl
[02:37] <thom> (tiny ubuntu)
[02:38] <lsuactiafner> how big is it?
[02:38] <Keybuk> buntu
[02:38] <robertj> keybuk: thanks, I was looking for that char ;)
[02:38] <Keybuk> (my god, that's got an obscure compose map)
[02:38] <Keybuk> Compose-u-/
[02:39] <robertj> Keybuk: there is a classical greek input method for gnome
[02:39] <robertj> ;)
[02:39] <robertj> im-classical-greek
[02:39] <robertj> regardless though
[02:40] <robertj> the thought that we are far enough from sid to need to do special mods for embedded use is kinda scary, isn't it?
[02:40] <robertj> and I don't believe that it's really true either
[02:42] <mpt> Burgundavia: Are there any ubuntu-doc-ers at all at UDU?
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[02:42] <hypatia> mpt: I'm there, and so is Jerome Gotangco
[02:42] <hypatia> I'm only here today though.
[02:43] <Burgundavia> mpt, froud and myself are not there. I don't knwo about jeffsch
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[02:43] <hypatia> jeffsch doesn't show up on the attendees list.
[02:44] <Burgundavia> then i would say no
[02:44] <lsuactiafner> ok night ppl 
[02:45] <mpt> dang
[02:45] <Burgundavia> indeed, I would like to enjoy the aussie sun
[02:46] <Burgundavia> I don't think froud could get the time away
[02:46] <mpt> Well, we just could have done with some ubuntu-doc input for the Rosetta BoFs
[02:46] <thom> i doubt significantly we'll see any of the aussie sun
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[02:46] <tfheen> thom: we can spec stuff outside?
[02:46] <Burgundavia> pictures of lca show sun
[02:46] <tfheen> the x40 is fine even in direct sunlight
[02:47] <Burgundavia> other, inferior laptops may fail though
[02:47] <hypatia> Burgundavia: alas, it is not penetrating the vibe hotel.
[02:48] <hypatia> mpt: Well, I suppose I can sit in on launchpad bofs. Would that be useful?
[02:48] <hypatia> I'm not sure there's a lot I can say about documentation compared to say, froud...
[02:48] <hypatia> but since he isn't here...
[02:48] <Burgundavia> hypatia, yes, make them see the docteam light
[02:50] <mpt> hypatia: yes please
[02:51] <hypatia> mpt: I can come up now if you like.
[02:51] <mpt> hypatia: where are you now?
[02:51] <hypatia> mpt: I'm downstairs in the ubuntu one.
[02:51] <mpt> hypatia: Well there's Rosetta1.0 at 2.30pm
[02:52] <hypatia> mpt: OK, I'll be there.
[02:53] <mpt> Maybe you want to talk to carlos or SteveA about exactly when ubuntu-doc stuff can be scheduled
[02:53] <luis_> I have a tiny bit of sunlight over here in the corner behind you, mpt
[02:53] <luis_> but I'm going to guard it jealously
[02:53] <hypatia> mpt: I'll get spiv to introduce me in the next break I guess.
[02:54] <carlos> hypatia: the ubuntu-doc thing is not scheduled yet
[02:54] <hypatia> carlos: what do you want from it?
[02:54] <Burgundavia> so how many of you are violating the 5m rule?
[02:54] <carlos> hypatia: are you an ubuntu-doc member?
[02:55] <carlos> I was told that no one from the team is able to attend this conference
[02:55] <carlos> hypatia: we will talk about the way to integrate their workflood needs into Rosetta
[02:55] <hypatia> none of the major documentation authors are here.
[02:55] <Burgundavia> carlos, you were speaking with mdke, who is not their
[02:55] <carlos> Burgundavia: I know
[02:55] <Burgundavia> but jstangco may have some idea about that
[02:56] <Burgundavia> and he is there
[02:56] <hypatia> yeah, jstangco is better than I am for that.
[02:56] <carlos> Burgundavia: but he (mdke) told me that no one from the team can come
[02:56] <hypatia> I will probably attend at least to give feedback to the ubuntu-doc list though.
[02:56] <carlos> I suppose any other member is aware of the team needs, right?
[02:56] <ajmitch_> hey this is jsgotangco
[02:56] <carlos> hypatia: ok
[02:56] <ajmitch_> im here but my laptop cant connect am with ajmitch
[02:59] <hypatia> ajmitch_: where are you?
[02:59] <ajmitch_> here at mdz's session
[03:00] <ajmitch_> im the im the only asian guy here so im pretty spotable (jsgotangco)
[03:02] <mdke> carlos, you need anything?
[03:02] <carlos> mdke: not atm, thanks
[03:02] <mdke> k
[03:02] <mdke> just saw highlights
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[03:02] <carlos> will tell you when the bof is scheduled
[03:03] <mdke> carlos, i'm not gonna be around for about 16 hours now... :/
[03:03] <carlos> don't worry, I think it will not be scheduled until tomorrow
[03:03] <mdke> cool
[03:03] <mdke> anyhow i may not be able to help much
[03:04] <mdke> ok cya i'm off to bed
[03:04] <hypatia> night
[03:04] <mdke> :)
[03:04] <mdke> have fun y'all
[03:04] <carlos> mdke: night
[03:25] <thom> BEAGLE4EVAH! ;-)
[03:26] <robertj> thom: yeesh, what's got you riled up ;)
[03:26] <bob2> fabbione: how much do you know about sparc porting?
[03:27] <fabbione> bob2: it depends.. we have hoary and brezzy almost built on sparc
[03:27] <bob2> fabbione: (baz is ftbfs due to the test suite on sparc and only sparc, and runs fine if you gdb/strace it)
[03:27] <tfheen> robertj: we're just cranking up the crack level here at the conference.
[03:27] <fabbione> bob2: baz is FTBFS because of gcc-4. i already told lifeless about the fix
[03:27] <robertj> hehe
[03:27] <bob2> fabbione: oh, no, this is in Debian with gcc 3.2
[03:27] <robertj> btw, is there an eta for beagle in universe?
[03:27] <bob2> er, 3.3
[03:27] <thom> robertj: needs new mono first
[03:27] <bob2> robertj: crimsum said post-udu, afaik
[03:28] <thom> robertj: and new kernel
[03:28] <tfheen> robertj: post-UDU, I think.  tseng should know more, but he has his laptop closed.
[03:28] <fabbione> bob2: meh.. i didn't check the FTBFS
[03:28] <koke> moving :)
[03:28] <bob2> fabbione: I got clint to have a look at it, and all he found is that it works if you try to gdb or strace it...does that sound like a familiar bug class to you?
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[04:12] <mpt> jordi!
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[04:27] <jordi> mpt: Matt!
[04:28] <luis_> too late
[04:28] <luis_> :)
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[04:31] <mpt> jordi: Yeah, we could have done with you up here for the LP1.0 BoF
[04:31] <mpt> jordi: Will you be at the Rosetta 1.0 one?
[04:31] <ajmitch_> jordi!
[04:32] <mpt> ogra, where are you now?
[04:33] <ajmitch_> ogra is in sublime1
[04:33] <jordi> mpt: ah, damn it. I'm at edubuntu
[04:33] <jordi> mpt: anything I can do now?
[04:33] <mpt> jordi: you mean you're at edubuntu now, or at 2.30?
[04:33] <jordi> mpt: I should be in that one yes, when is it?
[04:34] <jordi> I'm at edubuntu right now
[04:34] <mpt> 2.30
[04:34] <mpt> ok, see you there
[04:34] <jordi> ok, I'll be there.
[04:34] <mpt> I'll be wandering between Rosetta 1.0 and Malone 1.0 probably
=== mpt goes downstairs to find ogra
[04:34] <jordi> ajmitch_: yeah dude we need to meet somehow :)
[04:35] <mpt> Yeah, where's that kiwi ajmitch_ fellow
[04:35] <ajmitch_> sitting beside ogra
[04:36] <mpt> ok, just got to wait for baz to finish
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[04:44] <mpt> come on baz
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[04:52] <jordi> damn it
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=== robitaille wishes I wasn't 10,000+ kms from Sydney this week...
[05:13] <Lathiat> as do i
[05:13] <Lathiat> well i think im more liek 5000
=== ctd doesn't mind being 0cm away
[05:13] <robitaille> hopefully the next Ubuntu meeting will have live video feeds
=== Lathiat whacks ctd
[05:14] <ctd> I beleive canonical are paying per-megabyte on this connection
[05:14] <hypatia> yeah they are.
[05:14] <Lathiat> ctd: ouch
[05:14] <Lathiat> how much per megabyte?
[05:14] <Lathiat> cant be as much as i pay at uni
[05:14] <hypatia> I think they got a discount, but the DEFAULT charge from this hotel is 1c/kilbyte!
[05:14] <tfheen> hi Lathiat 
[05:14] <hypatia> kilobyte
[05:14] <Lathiat> (which is 4c)
[05:14] <Lathiat> tfheen: hey :)
[05:15] <tfheen> hypatia: yeah, it's totally crackful, IMHO
[05:15] <Lathiat> hypatia: wtf my phones gprs is cheaper than that, that cant be right.
[05:15] <hypatia> Lathiat: 1c/kb, capped at $30/50MB per day.
[05:15] <Lathiat> ouch
[05:15] <hypatia> So if you use the full 50MB it's cheaper.
[05:15] <Lathiat> talk about making money
[05:16] <hypatia> Now I assume Canonical is getting some kind of discount on that.
[05:16] <Lathiat> cus 50MB is $512 worth :)
[05:16] <Lathiat> what speed is the connection?
[05:16] <hypatia> Apparently all the hotels were very much "oh, wireless...um, yeah, in six months from now, we're totally going to have it!
[05:17] <Lathiat> i can do 500MB for $99 on my *phone* anywhere, at 384kbps
[05:17] <daniels> we do get somewhat of a discount on that -- we have a given amount of data to use over the entire week
[05:17] <daniels> where that given amount is rather trivially small
[05:17] <Lathiat> heh
[05:17] <luis_> glad I leave the country on wednesday
[05:18] <luis_> since if you burn the hotel down when the net gets cut off
[05:18] <luis_> still having my stuff in the hotel would be bad
=== Lathiat grins
[05:18] <tfheen> daniels: so we'll have used all the bandwidth in Australia by wednesday, then?
[05:18] <Lathiat> i just got my connection upgraded to 1.5mbit
=== ctd stops twenty btdownloadcurses processes.
[05:19] <Lathiat> i think if i was still on 512kbit after LCA i'd die of malbandwidth or something :)
[05:19] <ctd> nah, i'm only ssh and web'ing
[05:19] <tseng> ssh -C for the win
[05:19] <Lathiat> yeh -C helps alot when im using ssh on my phone
[05:19] <ctd> yes.
[05:21] <carlos> hypatia: where are you atm?
[05:21] <Lathiat> so i saw the veronica mars episode with the ubuntu reference, amusign :)
[05:22] <Lathiat> or should i say, you-bunt-ooh reference
[05:23] <cc> Lathiat: ssh on the phone ?
[05:25] <Lathiat> cc: well i use it on my laptop
[05:25] <daniels> tfheen: itym tuesday
[05:25] <Lathiat> over bluetooth to my phone over gprs
[05:25] <Lathiat> altho its actually wcdma or something cus it uses the 3G stuff as opposed to GSM stuff
[05:25] <hypatia> So, if the next conference is outside North America/parts of western Europe, I really don't like the chances of streaming video ;)
[05:26] <Lathiat> wel
[05:26] <Lathiat> its just the shitty hotel
[05:26] <Lathiat> at linux.conf.au in canberra we had plenty of bandwidth
[05:26] <tseng> i keep loosing my link every few minutes
[05:27] <hypatia> carlos: I'm up at SoftwareFreedomDay
[05:27] <ctd> yeah, but that was donated and all
[05:27] <tfheen> Lathiat: it was slow, though.
[05:27] <Lathiat> tfheen: no that was just the shithouse wireless
[05:27] <ctd> tfheen: Only at leechy times.
[05:27] <Lathiat> if you plugged into wired it was fine, or used wireless when not too many other people were arround
[05:27] <Lathiat> i was pulling 1.4M/s from burgmann
=== ctd labels Lathiat a leechx0r.
[05:28] <Lathiat> ctd: even tho it was donated
[05:28] <Lathiat> it hardly cost 1c/kbyte :)
[05:28] <Lathiat> hopefully within a year or two bandwidht at uni will cost f**k all
[05:29] <Lathiat> 3.5c/mbyte still hurts
[05:29] <ctd> data doesn't really cost anything
[05:29] <ctd> it's just to deterr leechers.
[05:29] <carlos> hypatia: ok. I think you should attend http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/RosettaOneDotZero to give your team needs from Rosetta.. (it's after lunch)
[05:29] <ctd> (woo, I can speel)
[05:29] <cc> Lathiat: well, my 3 phone requires a cable thing. gah
[05:29] <Lathiat> cc: i can do that too, having bt is nice
[05:30] <Lathiat> at least my phone is a standard mini-a usb cable
[05:30] <Lathiat> sony ericcson z1010, woo :)
[05:30] <Lathiat> cept canberra doesn't have a drop of three coverage, bastards.
[05:30] <Lathiat> i was hoping to try a video call back to perth
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[05:34] <cc> Lathiat: nifty; my bluetooth optarse phone costs too much
[05:35] <ctd> how much is data on 3?
[05:36] <ctd> optarse charge me 2.2c/kb on weekdays and 1.1c/kb on weekends for GPRS.
[05:37] <Lathiat> 0.4c/kb all the time
[05:37] <Lathiat> then there are various data caps that make it cheaper
[05:37] <Lathiat> the biggest is 500MB for $99
[05:37] <ctd> that's reasonabel
[05:37] <ctd> reasonable*
[05:37] <Lathiat> vodafone have unlimited for $49
[05:37] <Lathiat> no idea if 'fair use' aplplies
[05:37] <Lathiat> the thing is you get 384kbps from three
[05:37] <Lathiat> and 200ms rtt
[05:38] <Lathiat> and you get like 56kbps and 1s rtt from most other providers
[05:38] <GoneBoB> yeah but three you also get a compulsory molesting
[05:39] <Lathiat> GoneBoB: eh?
[05:40] <GoneBoB> they have some questionable business practises etc etc
[05:40] <GoneBoB> their product and prices though aren't too bad
[05:41] <Lathiat> dear god
[05:41] <Lathiat> there website now contains the terms 'fully sik'
[05:41] <GoneBoB> case in point :)
[05:41] <GoneBoB> primarily marketed to people who can't afford it and don't need it
[05:42] <GoneBoB> I know someone who racked up a $1000 monthly bill
[05:42] <Lathiat> so my ubuntu has stopped recognising usb-storage and firewire-storage stuff, cant figure out why doh
[05:42] <Lathiat> GoneBoB: heh
[05:42] <Lathiat> GoneBoB: yeh but like, wha tbusiness isn't
[05:43] <ctd> Lathiat: sik mate, sik.
[05:43] <GoneBoB> yeah, just three is more so
[05:43] <Lathiat> ctd: FULLYYYY
[05:43] <ctd> Lathiat: subwoofer
[05:43] <GoneBoB> is hotplug still running?
[05:43] <Lathiat> hmm, there are not any hotplug processes
[05:43] <Lathiat> like the usb-storage driver is loaded, it prints otu the drive info
[05:43] <Lathiat> just never creates a device or reads its partition table
[05:44] <ctd> Lathiat: modprobe sd_mod
[05:44] <Lathiat> right
[05:44] <Lathiat> i'll try that, bbs
=== ctd assumes Lathiat has plunged into breezy
[05:46] <Lathiat> ctd: yuh
[05:46] <Lathiat> i pent part of yesterday downgrading a few packages so mono adn evolution could work/be installable :)
[05:46] <Lathiat> the problem isnt so much breezy as it is linux.conf.au and UDU :)
[05:50] <Lathiat> ctd: woo
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[06:37] <hypatia> ajmitch_: are you coming to Rosetta One Point Zero?
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[06:37] <hypatia> or maybe I'm asking the wrong person now.
[06:38] <ctd> anyone know if there's anything I can test vga-out on around the place?
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[06:39] <Lathiat> ah
[06:39] <Lathiat> so yo uguys are on a telstra link
[06:39] <Lathiat> no wonder theyre paying pert megabyte :)
[06:40] <ctd> who knows
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[06:40] <Lathiat> so im assuming :)
[06:40] <ctd> yeah, i know it's a telstra link.. ;)
[06:40] <ctd> I'm on the thing.
[06:40] <ctd> But who knows the whole charging thing.
[06:43] <cc> daniels: can i just make a quick comment wrt USplash? maybe you want to scrap the idea (we're dropping rhgb too), because you might find that gdm-early-login makes more sense than a bootsplash screen (i'd like to come to the BOF, but i'd be at another one i reckon, so please keep that in mind)
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[06:47] <Burgundavia> anybody in rosetta 1.0 bof?
[06:49] <jamesh> Lathiat: it's more expensive than telstra charges
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[06:49] <Burgundavia> nev mind
[06:50] <thom> cc: you're dropping rhgb entirely accross the board?
[06:50] <cc> thom: yes, we are; at least thats the plan before FC-4
[06:51] <thom> wow
[06:51] <cc> thom: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=151952
[06:51] <thom> thanks
[06:51] <cc> thom: so i'd reconsider if i were you.... 
[06:51] <Lathiat> jamesh: i know :)
[06:52] <cc> in fact, rhgb causes more issues to some degree... esp with mga and i810 now, we're finding that consoles don't show up anymore the moment X starts
[06:52] <cc> so even an init 3 doesn't work, because rhgb started up... 
[06:53] <Lathiat> does anyone know if its possible to get vesafb into a 1680x1050 mode?
[06:53] <ctd> everything is possible
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[07:00] <fabbione> thom?
[07:00] <fabbione> anybody close to thom that can pping him?
[07:01] <hypatia> I will try.
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[07:01] <thom> fabbione: eh?
[07:01] <fabbione> thom: do we use readhaed on the liveCD?
[07:03] <thom> fabbione: yes
[07:03] <fabbione> thanks
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[07:03] <thom> (or so it appears, just had a look at a livecd)
[07:04] <fabbione> do we tune what needs to be readead for the livecd?
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[07:05] <thom> not afaik
[07:05] <fabbione> ok thanks
[07:05] <thom> we may be better off not RAing at all, not sure
[07:05] <sladen> Lathiat: yes, it is possible to use VESA to select weird/high video modes, but they are custom and the mode specific to that machine.  You must proble the available modes
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[07:08] <sladen> probe
[07:10] <Lathiat> sladen: ah right, how do i do that?
[07:10] <Lathiat> sladen: or where can i find docs, etc?
[07:16] <tfheen> I think you can pass vga=ask to the kernel on boot
[07:16] <tfheen> hm
[07:16] <tfheen> noe, that's something else.
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[07:30] <tfheen> hi Simira
[07:30] <Simira> mornin
[07:30] <Simira> *yawns*
[07:31] <tfheen> nah, post-lunch already.
[07:31] <Simira> eeeaaarly morning, you mean...
[07:31] <tfheen> for you slack norwegians, yeah.. :P
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[07:31] <Simira> :p
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[07:38] <daniels> cc: righto, I'll bring it up, but I think people want it anyway.  cheers.
[07:41] <ogra> Simira, germany isnt even up :(
=== ogra is envious on tfheen and simira
[07:42] <Simira> ogra: I guess. :-) I just arrived by the morning train, so that's why I'm up this early.
[07:42] <tfheen> ogra: Simira is in CEST
[07:42] <tfheen> she's just early up
[07:43] <Simira> and the stores aren't open yet, either, so there's no breakfast
[07:43] <ogra> my susus isnt even here....guess she's asleep....
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[08:04] <cc> thom: ack. tell pitti i haven't shown up at the bluetooth thingo because i just finished some editing stuff
[08:07] <Lathiat> man im so missing out
[08:07] <Burgundavia> tell me about it
[08:07] <Lathiat> all these talks i want to be at because i have stuf to contribute
[08:07] <Lathiat> d'oh
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[08:42] <cartman> jbailey: morning!
[08:42] <cartman> jbailey: <waiting for this for days> thanks for glibc update!
[08:44] <jbailey> cartman: *lol* It's working for you?
[08:44] <cartman> jbailey: yeah, appreciated greatly :)
[08:44] <jbailey> Cool.  I didn't have time to do much testing of it, glad it works for you.
[08:45] <cartman> how is UDU going?
[08:45] <jbailey> Good, busy.
[08:45] <cartman> cool
[08:51] <Lathiat> you didnt do much testing of a glibc update?:>
[08:51] <lamont_r> Lathiat: I expect that means he only spent 2 days testing, instead of 7
[08:52] <cartman> Lathiat: thats why there are users ;P
[08:52] <cartman> to test stuff
[08:52] <Lathiat> cartman: you wont have any users if you botch a libc upgrade :>
[08:52] <cartman> lamont_r: btw I got a bug for you a small one in case you have some time
[08:52] <cartman> Lathiat: :)
[08:53] <Lathiat> and i feel sorry for the maintainers of things like libc, i really do :)
[08:53] <lamont_r> cartman: in what package?
[08:53] <cartman> lamont_r: console-data
[08:53] <jbailey> lamont_r: Are you calling me obsessive compulsive again? =)
[08:53] <cartman> Lathiat: true...
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[08:53] <lamont_r> jbailey: I'm calling you thurough.
=== jbailey twitches.
[08:54] <lamont_r> cartman: console-data isn't one that I've particularly messed with much over time...
[08:54] <lamont_r> cartman: best path would be to just file a bug - not really where I could do much right now.
[08:54] <cartman> lamont_r: argh thats the wrong one.
[08:55] <cartman> yours is about util-linux :)
[08:55] <lamont_r> heh
[08:55] <cartman> and yeah its reported already
[08:55] <lamont_r> cool
[08:55] <cartman> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9892
[08:55] <cartman> I dont knows how S<foo> is selected so I couldn't possibly add a patch :/
[08:56] <lamont_r> update-rc<mumble>
[08:56] <lamont_r> I think
[08:56] <lamont_r> update-init.d?
[08:56] <Lathiat> update-rc.d
[08:56] <cartman> no I mean how is it decided for a pack?
[08:56] <lamont_r> update-rc.d
=== lamont_r is still debating whether that solution is the right thing to do or not... I figure I'll upload it sometime in the not-too-distant timeframe
[08:57] <cartman> lamont_r: I could swap init numbers of module-init-tools & hwclockfirst.sh
[08:57] <cartman> would that be accepted?
[08:58] <lamont_r> cartman: given that hwclockfirst.sh went to pains to run before modutils, I want to understand it before I change it.
[08:59] <lamont_r> the fix is trivial.. the thinking behind it is not
[08:59] <cartman> lamont_r: okies
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[09:36] <ctd> is there anyone in the building familiar with suspend on x86v laptops?
[09:36] <tfheen> ctd: mjg59, aka matthew garret
[09:36] <tfheen> +t
[09:36] <tfheen> he's in sublime1 atm.
[09:36] <tfheen> leading a bof
[09:37] <ctd> right
[09:37] <tseng> he's running for pope
[09:37] <Lathiat> savannah.nongnu.org ues anonymous cvs over ssh, evil.
[09:37] <tfheen> Lathiat: nicey.
[09:38] <i386> Lathiat, lol
[09:38] <tfheen> I use that for my dotfiles.
[09:38] <i386> is there a point to that?
=== tseng too
[09:38] <Lathiat> not using the shitbox known as pserver?
[09:38] <i386> anon cvs OVER ssh
[09:39] <Lathiat> i386: ?
[09:39] <i386> never be minded
[09:39] <i386> Lathiat, Ycros got a job at my workies
[09:39] <ctd> it'd be nice if he could visit the installfest when he's not running for the pope or leading a bof
[09:39] <i386> starts tomorrow
[09:40] <tfheen> Lathiat: it means you can trust the integrity of the connection after the initial checkout.
[09:40] <Lathiat> thats a good point
[09:40] <jbailey> Lathiat: I was one of the folks who co-wrote the bit for full disclosure on the savannah hack.  
[09:41] <jbailey> Lathiat: pserver bad.  anonymous cvs over ssh good.
[09:41] <tfheen> heh
[09:41] <tfheen> jbailey: actually, the whole CVS codebase makes you cry.
[09:41] <Lathiat> my laptop seems to be running dog slow lately
[09:41] <Lathiat> i wonder if its the nv open source driver or smeothing
[09:41] <Lathiat> tho that cant really make it sucks in general that much id ont think
[09:42] <Lathiat> maybe its ricerfs
[09:43] <jbailey> tfheen: The CVS developers make me want to cry.  The problem with the pserver exploit is that the developers *knew* about it, and claimed it wasn't interesting because it was documented in the release notes that any user could create a root exploit.
[09:43] <tfheen> jbailey: pserver as root bad.
[09:43] <jbailey> tfheen: Doesn't need to be, IIRC.
[09:43] <tfheen> jbailey: if you want it to be able to suid, it does
[09:44] <jbailey> Right.  That's what it was.
[09:44] <cartman> so we could just give security advisories and not fix bugs themselves :)
[09:44] <Lathiat> heh
[09:44] <tfheen> which you really don't need if you change the lock directory and only allow checkout over pserver.
[09:44] <jbailey> User with write privs drops a script in place.  anoncvs user does something that causes exploit in script, since that script is then run as root.
[09:48] <jbailey> lamont_r: "We appologise for the inconvenience" - God's last message to his creation.
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[09:56] <lamont_r> jbailey: that's japanese for "tough luck"
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[09:58] <Treenaks> Unfrgiven: please decide if you want to stay or not..
[09:58] <Treenaks> Unfrgiven: stop joining & quitting
[09:58] <Unfrgiven> Treenaks: sorry.... tryin to get bloody irssi to auto send the nickserv identify! it aint workin
[09:58] <Unfrgiven> Treenaks: only one way to test isnt there.... :(
[09:58] <tfheen> Unfrgiven: don't join any channels, then
[09:58] <Treenaks> Unfrgiven: well, you could turn off channel autojoin
[09:58] <tfheen> just connect to the server.
[09:58] <Unfrgiven> aight ok... apologies
[09:58] <Treenaks> np :)
[10:01] <Lathiat> Unfrgiven: in chatnets
[10:01] <Lathiat> Unfrgiven: inside the defintion for the serve ryou want
[10:01] <Lathiat> put
[10:01] <Lathiat> autosendcmd = "/^msg nickserv identify blah";
[10:02] <Lathiat> chatnets = {
[10:02] <Lathiat>   freenode = {
[10:02] <Lathiat>     type = "IRC";
[10:02] <Lathiat>     autosendcmd = "/^msg nickserv identify XXXXXXXX";
[10:02] <Lathiat>   };
[10:02] <Lathiat> }
[10:02] <Lathiat> for example
[10:03] <mike_douglas> Lathiat: thanks, I think I'll add that too
[10:04] <Unfrgiven> Lathiat: ok thanks, ill give that a shot now... ill be sure to not autojoin this time :)
[10:05] <Lathiat> i should put up my irssi config
[10:05] <Lathiat> does lots of stuff
[10:05] <Lathiat> :)
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[10:08] <Unfrgiven> Lathiat: thanks a lot. that worked a treat.
[10:08] <Lathiat> :)
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[10:29] <Mitario> lo everyone
[10:30] <Lathiat> no ownder my laptops been running like a dog
[10:30] <Lathiat> it was stuck on 600mhz
[10:30] <Lathiat> stupid cpufreq bugs
[10:30] <Treenaks> ouch
[10:31] <Lathiat> also, why the hell does gnome-open on a .html open it in firefox when my preferred webbrowser is set to epiphany
=== Lathiat discvoers this is because the mime type for .html is to open in firefox
=== Lathiat wonders what the preferred web browser setting actually changes
[10:32] <Lathiat> http:// url handler?
[10:33] <tfheen> Lathiat: it has good taste, I guess.
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[10:34] <pitti> jdub: ping
[10:35] <fabbione>      is anybody close to jdub?
[10:35] <fabbione> we are waiting for him in sublime 1
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[10:37] <ajmitch_> evening DrMiaow 
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[10:45] <\sh> morning
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[11:18] <A_Alam> hi carlos 
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[11:23] <carlos> A_Alam: hi
[11:24] <A_Alam> hi carlos, i want to join Punjabi lang team
[11:28] <carlos> A_Alam: just request that from the launchpad UI https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/people/ubuntu-l10n-pa/+members/+add
[11:30] <A_Alam> carlos, I sent. There is spelling mistake at that page for "Punjabi" as "Punjavi". Can u please do something?
[11:33] <carlos> hmm, my fault..
[11:34] <carlos> A_Alam: I'm a bit busy atm, could you file a bug report at https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/products/rosetta so I don't forget it?
[11:34] <carlos> will fix it as soon as possible
[11:34] <A_Alam> carlos, nop, thanks
[11:35] <carlos> I fixed the name as it was Panjavi and seems like I mispelled it...
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[11:36] <sivang> Howdy all
[11:37] <A_Alam> sent:)
[11:38] <sivang> any interesting news from UDU anybody?
[11:41] <sivang> oh well, guess everybody's busy
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[11:44] <louie> mpt: poke?
[11:46] <louie> mpt: should I just not bother filing malone bugs? is that just going to annoy brad and bjorn? I'd sort of like to file a handful, at least, to explore the interface some, but if the code that is public lags what you guys have internally badly, it seems like probably a waste of everyone's time...
=== luis_ realizes he has two clients open, fixes that
[11:47] <mpt> luis_: Depends what kind of bugs they are
[11:47] <mpt> luis_: basically nothing that's an RFE, I guess
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[11:59] <luis_> mpt: at this point, only bug-bugs; RFEs I'll take up in person
[11:59] <luis_> though I'm taking down a list of those too
[12:06] <mpt> ok, thanks luis_
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[01:11] <Unfrgiven> does anyone know when the schedule for tomorrow at UDU will be up?
[01:14] <jdub> Unfrgiven: very late tonight
[01:15] <Unfrgiven> jdub: bummer :) so much for goin 2 work 2morrow ;)
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[02:08] <SlackShrike> Good morring
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[02:15] <SlackShrike> How to create ubuntu from scratch ? I am like a ubuntu.iso in my house !
[02:15] <SlackShrike> please
[02:16] <Treenaks> SlackShrike: what do you mean?
[02:20] <SlackShrike> Treenaks: I would like to learn the process of build of ubuntu to create a CD of installation based on ubuntu.
[02:21] <Treenaks> SlackShrike: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LiveCDCustomizationHowToBr should be a good start
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[02:24] <SlackShrike> Treenaks : This learn how to custumize the live cd and not the process of build
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[02:28] <SlackShrike> I do not find in no place the process of build of ubuntu! where I can find?
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[02:38] <SlackShrike> I do not find in no place the process of build of ubuntu! where I can find?
[02:38] <Treenaks> SlackShrike: the mailing lists?
[02:39] <Treenaks> and repeating your questions will not make it more likely that someone answers
[02:39] <Treenaks> SlackShrike: most people from here are in Australia at the moment
[02:40] <SlackShrike> ok
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[02:47] <zul> heylo
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[03:00] <sladen> fabbione: LTSP are also wanting to use kexec() http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientRoadmap
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[03:22] <ogra> sladen, he is sleeping since 2h
[03:22] <ogra> (at least he said so)
[03:24] <sladen> gah.  BTW, there's wireless with essid 'default' out the back ofhte building if it's be cheaper to NAT through that... ahem
[03:24] <Lathiat> interesting
[03:24] <tseng> if by cheaper you mean stealing
[03:24] <tseng> sure.
[03:25] <tseng> ive seen 4 or 5 different APs crop up
[03:25] <ctd> what isp does it go through?
[03:25] <tseng> edveryone on the hotel is on telstra
[03:25] <ctd> i know, I mean 'default' ;)
[03:25] <ogra> sladen, yep, thats the neighbor building....
[03:26] <tseng> well connect through it, and ill tell you your hostmask
[03:26] <ctd> the wireless at vibe is just arse cost-wise.
[03:26] <tseng> there is no wireless at vibe
[03:26] <ctd> I don't think I policed installfest traffic enough
[03:26] <ctd> I know.
[03:27] <ctd> all relates back, canonical ap -> vibe bandwidth
[03:27] <ctd> or atleast that "rooms online" thing
[03:27] <tseng> that poor little ap
[03:27] <ctd> meh, installfest had it's own AP. :)
[03:28] <tseng> im on UBUNTU from floor 2
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[03:28] <Lathiat> im on lathiat, 5000kms away :(
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[03:29] <ctd> interesting essid
[03:29] <ctd> i'm on drahtlos
[03:30] <ctd> previously on-site, now some amount of km away
[03:31] <ogra> tseng, from our room ?
[03:31] <tseng> yes
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[03:34] <ogra> tseng, wow.... sadly my antenna is bad....
[03:34] <tseng> mine is great
[03:34] <ogra> or did they already install the new APs ?
[03:34] <tseng> when im not surrounded by 20 other wifi users
[03:34] <tseng> then it cuts out every 2 minutes
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[03:35] <elvirolo> hi all
[03:35] <jdub> ogra: tomorrow morning
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[03:35] <ogra> jdub, yay, great....
[03:35] <elvirolo> does anayone know when/if Freeciv 2 will be integrated into breezy?
[03:35] <ogra> jdub, are you guys through with your meeting ? 
[03:35] <tseng> jdub++
[03:35] <jdub> ctd: the vibe prices on those pages are bollocks
[03:36] <ogra> jdub, i see the BOF list growing constantly
[03:36] <jdub> ogra: nup...
[03:36] <ogra> argh
[03:36] <ogra> what a conf....
[03:36] <tseng> ogra: still no schedule, foo
[03:36] <ogra> tseng, but a new BOF every 20min....
[03:36] <tseng> yes
[03:36] <tseng> i have 3
[03:36] <ctd> jdub: I heard canonical got a better deal, but from what I figured it was still a use-least-you-can thing.
[03:37] <Lathiat> so no torrenting :)
[03:37] <ogra> tseng, 196 in total.....
[03:37] <Lathiat> and someone run a local mirror :)
[03:37] <tseng> not that much need
[03:37] <tseng> we arent developing anything this week
[03:37] <ogra> no time for that....
[03:37] <Lathiat> oh tahts right
[03:37] <Lathiat> since yoru all there
[03:38] <Lathiat> no ones doing work on ubuntu :P)
[03:38] <ogra> with 196 BOFs to attend in 7 days....
[03:38] <tseng> yes
[03:38] <tseng> no work at all
[03:38] <ogra> err 6 days
[03:38] <ctd> lot of brainstorming
[03:38] <tseng> we worked for nearly 12 hours today
[03:38] <Lathiat> anyone knwo how to make get gnoem 2.10 to display drives from /etc/fstab on the desktop (they do appear in places, drivemount)
[03:39] <tseng> turn on volumes_visible in gconf -> nautilus
[03:39] <ogra> tseng, i wouldnt wonder if the daily schedule gets extended by one or two hours...
[03:39] <Lathiat> tseng: nah thats for removable stuff
[03:39] <Lathiat> stuff from /etc/fstab no longer appears with it
[03:39] <Lathiat> (it used to)
[03:39] <tseng> add users to the fstab?
[03:39] <tseng> as an option
[03:39] <zul> tseng: you are all a bunch of slackers ;)
[03:39] <tseng> and remount
[03:40] <ogra> tseng, but we are here to work, arent we ;)
[03:40] <tseng> i just flew 20 hours to meet jdub !
[03:40] <ogra> tseng, its always worth it ;)
[03:40] <Simira> lol
[03:40] <Lathiat> tseng: ah taht works, it used to be 'user'
[03:41] <tseng> Lathiat: ok.
=== ogra goes for a smoke to watch the flying foxes
[03:41] <ogra> i love them...
[03:42] <Treenaks> flying foxes?
[03:42] <Simira> are there flying foxes in au as welll?
[03:42] <Simira> gee I wish I'd been there!
[03:42] <Simira> or I'll tell Mithrandir to get me one...
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[03:43] <jdub> tseng: dude, and we've hardly had time to catch up
[03:43] <jdub> tseng: also, i want to learn your accent
[03:44] <Treenaks> jdub: what kind of accent is that?
[03:44] <jdub> tseng: midwestern?
[03:44] <tseng> pennsylvania
[03:45] <tseng> but
[03:45] <jdub> tseng: which end?
[03:45] <tseng> york, south middleish
[03:46] <tseng> there is actually a book "you know you're a yorker if" about the weird stuff people do that sticks out
[03:50] <cartman> humpf new c++ packs depending on g++-4.0 is not yet uploaded, right?
[03:50] <tseng> hah dude, smoke that crack harder
[03:50] <tseng> we will need to rebuild all of them
[03:51] <tseng> abi break.
[03:51] <cartman> yeah I just smoked a big pipe actually
[03:51] <cartman> still got headache
[03:51] <cartman> tseng: check transition docs and it says upload would start around ~25 April, hence I am asking :)
[03:51] <cartman> checked*
[03:51] <tseng> right now c++ stuff is supposed to be using 3.3 or 3.4
[03:52] <cartman> tseng: should be 3.3
[03:52] <cartman> 3.4 is not abi compatible either
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[03:52] <ogra_> GRRRR
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[03:56] <tseng> time to sleep
[03:56] <tseng> jdub: schedule me harder
[03:57] <ogra> tseng, meeting seems to be done, he is at the mao BOF here
=== ctd still sees no schedule for tomorrow
[03:58] <Treenaks> Due to lack of interest, the future has been canceled.
[03:58] <ogra> heh
[03:58] <ctd> woot.
[03:58] <Simira> oh, go to bed now guys, so I can have a break. Please? ;p
[03:59] <Simira> and can someone put Mithrandir online before he takes off?
[03:59] <ogra> i actually dotnt know where he is....
[04:00] <ogra> not in the hall...
[04:01] <tseng> i think ill come back down rather
[04:02] <ogra> heh... jetlag ?
[04:02] <tseng> ya
[04:02] <tseng> owned.
[04:02] <Simira> ogra: he went for dinner three and a half hours ago, and said he's be back in two...
[04:03] <ogra> Simira, hmm, i saw him at dinner... 
[04:03] <tseng> si	dinners here are crack
[04:04] <Treenaks> sinners?
[04:04] <ogra> Treenaks, thats what happens with wlan in the eleavtor....
[04:04] <tseng> it is.
[04:04] <Simira> haha
[04:05] <Simira> whatever. I'll talk to him tomorrow. Or tonight, for my part in it.
[04:05] <tseng> the rfc doesnt cover elevators
[04:05] <ogra> bytes are puzzled by gravitation ;)
[04:05] <Treenaks> ogra: depends.. is the elevator made of metal?
[04:05] <ogra> yep, i guess
[04:05] <tseng> it holds 17!
[04:05] <ogra> wow, dell builds great antennas it seems
[04:07] <tseng> its an intel chip
[04:07] <tseng> ipw2200
[04:07] <SlackShrike> when i use the live-cd to boot this return this message: "No common CD-ROM drive was detected" who can help me?
[04:08] <ogra> hmm, i have an old orinoco silver....
[04:08] <Treenaks> ogra: ah! old 802.11b m4dn3ss
[04:09] <ogra> yeah
[04:11] <cartman> gcc 4.0 branch finally compiles kernel correctly too
[04:12] <Treenaks> \o/
[04:14] <cartman> time wait for a new Ubuntu pack :-)
[04:14] <cartman> +to+
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[04:15] <zul> cartman: not without a lot of patches
[04:15] <ivoks> hi
[04:15] <ivoks> did anyone noticed anoying bugs in ubuntu?
[04:15] <ivoks> there is one specially stoopid
[04:15] <ivoks> result of brainless copying from debian
[04:16] <cartman> zul: 4_0_BRANCH should be _ok_ now
[04:16] <cartman> zul: unless proven guilty :)
[04:19] <ivoks> the name of kernel image on ubuntu is linux-image, right?
[04:19] <zul> yep
[04:19] <ivoks> sl-modem-daemon depends on linux-image, right?
[04:19] <ivoks> great...
[04:19] <ivoks> then... make-dpkp creates kernel-image
[04:19] <ivoks> not linux-image package
[04:19] <ivoks> and, even worse
[04:20] <ivoks> u can't create linux-image from linux-source
[04:20] <ivoks> only kernel-image
[04:20] <ivoks> without modifying debian/control in linux-source
[04:20] <ivoks> why do i get this feeling that this was just copied from debian (debian calls his images kernel-image)
[04:20] <ivoks> :)
[04:21] <ivoks> this should be fixed
[04:22] <zul> patches accpeted :)
[04:22] <tseng> why would you use linux-source
[04:22] <tseng> most drivers need linux-headers
[04:22] <ivoks> zul patch?
[04:22] <ivoks> tseng some people like their own kernels
[04:22] <ivoks> zul there is no patch
[04:22] <ivoks> zul i don't know how many packages are brokne this way
[04:23] <ivoks> zul the thing that should be done is edit debian/control in linux-sources* packages and insted of kernel-image, place linux-image
[04:23] <zul> ivoks: if you make a patch to get it working properly then it will most likely be accepted
[04:23] <ivoks> zul who do i contact?
[04:23] <ivoks> zul but this thing brakes lot of packages
[04:24] <zul> ivoks: open a bug in bugzilla and add a patch
[04:24] <ivoks> ok... it will be marked as ultra critical :)
[04:24] <tseng> mark it as normal
[04:25] <ivoks> it isn't norml
[04:25] <ivoks> couse look at this chain reaction..
[04:25] <tseng> the release team marks bugs as critical
[04:25] <ivoks> i convert debian/control in linux-source to create linux-image
[04:25] <tseng> please dont much around with it
[04:25] <ivoks> tseng don't wory...
[04:25] <ivoks> and great, i create linux-image package
[04:25] <ogra> ivoks, youre not supposed to build a complete image if you need only one module...
[04:26] <ogra> just take the headers and build the module ;)
[04:26] <ivoks> ogra well, i like to create my own images
[04:26] <ogra> then i suppose you know what to do ;)
[04:26] <ivoks> i know... but this is broken distribution
[04:26] <tseng> fwiw i built my own images from linux-source
[04:26] <ivoks> ogra my kernel and modules work
[04:27] <tseng> so did zul, and fabbio etc
[04:27] <ivoks> tseng great... do u use make-kpkg?
[04:27] <tseng> no?
[04:27] <ivoks> tseng try
[04:27] <ivoks> it will create kernel-image
[04:27] <tseng> no, thats not the purpose
[04:27] <zul> tseng: in a way i do ;)
[04:27] <ivoks> tseng ?
[04:27] <tseng> are we talking about the same packagE?
[04:27] <ivoks> make-kpkg - build Debian kernel packages from Linux kernel sources
[04:28] <ivoks> that's from man, man :)
[04:28] <tseng> dude comeon
[04:28] <tseng> let me explain please
[04:28] <ivoks> ok...
[04:28] <tseng> linux-image is created from linux-source source package with dpkg-buildpkg or similar
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[04:28] <tseng> make-kpkg makes a custom local deb
[04:29] <tseng> you are in total control of what it spits out
[04:29] <ivoks> true
[04:29] <tseng> it wont look and feel like the ubuntu distributed debs
[04:29] <ivoks> ?
[04:29] <ivoks> tseng the whole purpose of make-kpkg is to create deb kernel image
[04:30] <tseng> i have no idea why you are mucking with debian/control
[04:30] <tseng> to use make-kpkg
[04:30] <ivoks> look...
[04:30] <ivoks> this is the thing
[04:30] <ivoks> on my lap i need nvidia-driver and sl-modem-source
[04:30] <tseng> we have nvidia driver rignt in linux-restricted-modules
[04:30] <ivoks> if i don't tuch anything and try to create kernel images and kernel modules as deb with make-kpkg
[04:30] <tseng> you should build the other module with linux-headers
[04:31] <tseng> none of this has anything todo with debian/control
[04:31] <ivoks> tseng man... i don't run linux-image*ubuntu*
[04:31] <ivoks> it does, listen...
[04:31] <ivoks> i get linux-source
[04:31] <ivoks> do make config and configure the kernel the way i want it
=== ogra gose for a last cigarette....
[04:32] <ivoks> then run make-kpkg to create deb kernel package
[04:32] <ogra> tseng, dont forget we have to show up at 9:00 at the first BOF....
[04:32] <ivoks> and modules in /usr/src/modules
[04:32] <ogra> ivoks, just file a bug ....
[04:32] <tseng> ogra: meeting daniel at 8
[04:32] <ivoks> ogra i will
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[04:32] <ivoks> ogra i'm just trying to explain tseng where the problem is
[04:32] <sivang> Hello all
[04:32] <tseng> hi sivang 
[04:32] <sivang> ogra: 'sup ? ;-)
[04:32] <sivang> hey tseng
[04:32] <jdub> ahr, home
[04:33] <ivoks> tseng kernel and modules asre build and installed via dpkg, great
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[04:33] <tseng> great.
[04:33] <ivoks> tseng then i try to install sl-modem-daemon and it asks for linux-image
[04:33] <sivang> How is UDU going?
[04:33] <ivoks> there is a problem couse make-kpkg is creating kernel-image
[04:33] <tseng> ivoks: of course it does
[04:33] <ivoks> ?!
[04:33] <tseng> we cant depend on your custom kernel
[04:33] <tseng> we have no idea wtf is in it
[04:33] <ivoks> tseng omg
[04:34] <tseng> ZOMGLOLZ
[04:34] <ivoks> this distro is based on debian
[04:34] <tseng> file the bug if you want, im going to sleep soon
[04:34] <ivoks> whole make-kpkg and building packages from source on debian
[04:34] <ivoks> ah.. why am i even trying...
[04:34] <tseng> ivoks: so make it call the package linux-image-foo
[04:34] <ivoks> tseng i did
[04:34] <ivoks> then sl-modem didn't want to compile
[04:35] <ivoks> couse that one depends on kernel-image
[04:35] <ivoks> u see the nonsense?
[04:35] <ivoks> sl-modem depends on kernel-image, and sl-modem-daemon depends on linux-image
[04:35] <sivang> is there a channel for the conference happening?
[04:35] <tseng> we have sl-modem scheduled for a bof
[04:35] <tseng> sivang: no
[04:35] <tseng> ivoks: so sl-modem was never changed from debian to work on ubuntu
[04:36] <tseng> ivoks: and we are back to waiting for you to submit a patch
[04:36] <Lathiat> that works for me, wahts the problem?
[04:36] <Lathiat> oh, the deps
[04:36] <ivoks> tseng i'm submiting :)
[04:36] <tseng> Lathiat: kernel-image vs linux-image
[04:36] <tseng> its very late here, brain fried
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[04:37] <Lathiat> pfft its only 12:37
[04:37] <tseng> pfft ive been going since 4am
[04:38] <Lathiat> ouoch
[04:38] <Lathiat> i got up at 11 :)
[04:38] <zul> slackers
[04:38] <tseng> ill be up by 8
[04:38] <tseng> so, good night ubuntites
[04:38] <sivang> night tseng
[04:39] <sivang> jdub: any schedule for the launch pad integration bof?
[04:39] <Lathiat> i feel so duped
[04:40] <ivoks> night
[04:41] <Lathiat> damnit, my dog just chewed my copy of the new hoary cds
[04:41] <zul> bwahaha
[04:41] <Lathiat> i only have one :(
[04:41] <ogra> night guyss
[04:42] <sivang> night ogra
[04:42] <zul> toodles ogra 
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[04:51] <ivoks> there...
[04:51] <ivoks> bug is filed
[04:52] <ivoks> i could create patches for this two packages, but, there are more packages which are broken this way...
[04:55] <wasabi> ugh I knew hotplug would give me heartache at some point
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[05:05] <nanophase> hi
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[05:52] <bluefoxicy> no autopackage?
[05:52] <Burgundavia> huh?
[05:52] <bluefoxicy> I can't find autopackage in breezy's repos
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[05:53] <Burgundavia> no in debian yet
[05:53] <bluefoxicy> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/gaim/gaim-1.2.1.x86.package?download  <-- autopackage -->http://autopackage.org/gallery.html
[05:54] <Burgundavia> there is some debate as to autopackage and its usefulness
[05:54] <Burgundavia> see the u-devel archives
[05:55] <bluefoxicy> I can see where that would come from
[05:55] <bluefoxicy> considering it's not alien, so it won't update the package manager
[05:55] <bluefoxicy> and it's not LSB so it's not really important
[05:55] <Burgundavia> indeed, an the alien upstream says he is not going to support it
[05:56] <Burgundavia> something to do with not listed where files go in a good way
[05:56] <Burgundavia> though I must admit it is very pretty and there does need to be something
[05:56] <bluefoxicy> it tries to decide where to put files based on the dist
[05:56] <Burgundavia> ick
[05:57] <bluefoxicy> yeah
[05:57] <bluefoxicy> I want it just to experiment with.
[05:57] <bluefoxicy> although part of using it may involve coding changes
[05:58] <Burgundavia> from what I understand the devel of autpackage is trying very hard to get distros to accept it
[05:58] <bluefoxicy> the documentation says that your program must be able to run from anywhere on the filesystem (which is a good thing), and that it should allow dynamic linking with libraries instead of compile time ./configure --options
[05:58] <bluefoxicy> and they also supply a tool to let you easily mark blocks of code to only be used if you have certain libs, and let that handle all the ugly dynamic linking code (dlopen/dlsym)
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[05:59] <bluefoxicy> so it looks like they've got more going on than "use our package manager"
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[05:59] <bluefoxicy> I think it may be potentially beneficial to popularize the software
[05:59] <Burgundavia> anywhere on the fs is a good thing?
[05:59] <bluefoxicy> yes
[05:59] <bluefoxicy> for example, some versions of GCC IIRC used to be ./configured to have a certain prefix, /usr or /usr/local
[05:59] <bluefoxicy> if you took a --prefix=/usr/local gcc and put it into /usr, it wouldn't run.
[06:00] <bluefoxicy> the idea of relocatable installation paths is that you can put it in /usr, /usr/local, or /home/usr/ or whatever
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[06:01] <bluefoxicy> run-time dependency resolution is also a good thing.  If gimp can't find libpng, it should not support libpng; but if you then install libpng, it should now do png without you having to recompile or reinstall gimp
[06:02] <bluefoxicy> the autopackage people supply a tool to help code for this witohut making ass ugly code and throwing function pointers all over the damn place
[06:02] <Burgundavia> ok, and are these ideas widely accepted? what about security considerations/
[06:03] <bluefoxicy> security considerations with runtime dep checking is the same as with buildtime dep checking, in so much that dlopen() checks for the libraries in the same way that ld.so does
[06:04] <bluefoxicy> i'll pastebin this
[06:04] <bluefoxicy> http://rafb.net/paste/results/1lc3fN44.html
[06:04] <bluefoxicy> there's a chunk of the dlopen man page
[06:04] <bluefoxicy> aside from that, relocatable binaries may only be seen as an issue if they're in your path
[06:04] <bluefoxicy> which means that potentially having a PATH=.:* would be bad
[06:05] <bluefoxicy> but then again, why use a real program to attack a system that way when you can just make an 'ls' or 'gcc' program that's not really 'ls' or 'gcc'?
[06:05] <bluefoxicy> the implications are the same as without relocatable installation paths and runtime dynamic dependency checking
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[06:06] <bluefoxicy> As for wide acceptance of these ideas, they're implimentation overhead.
[06:06] <bluefoxicy> it takes more work to make a good program
[06:06] <bluefoxicy> what we have today is accepted as "good enough," and so people don't care to make it "better"
[06:07] <bluefoxicy> that is probably the only obstacle that will be encountered
[06:07] <Burgundavia> ok
[06:08] <Burgundavia> so autopackage would require more work by upstream? (aside from the fact taht they now have to package it)
[06:08] <bluefoxicy> yes and no.
[06:09] <bluefoxicy> to create a .package would require added work in some cases, for the package to be relocatable on the FS.  This is not hard and I would imagine that a lot of programs are anyway.
[06:09] <bluefoxicy> To make the package able to recommend instead of require most of the options currently specified at compile time (dynamic dep. resolution) would require a fair to heavy amount of work, but is optional
[06:10] <bluefoxicy> it is recommended, and better.
[06:10] <bluefoxicy> and just having distributions supply autopackage won't force maintainers to use it
[06:11] <bluefoxicy> so the only detriment to any distribution supplying autopackage is that they have to package it; it won't discourage any upstream support
[06:12] <Burgundavia> and that of implicitly promoting something which is not really a good thing, security wise
[06:12] <bluefoxicy> as I said, the security implications are the same as vanilla dynamic linking
[06:12] <bluefoxicy> and of being able to set your PATH variable
[06:13] <Burgundavia> no, I am talking about installing random bytes off the web
[06:13] <bluefoxicy> oh
[06:13] <bluefoxicy> that's not exactly a "security implication" except for how letting a human touch your PC is a "secuirty implication"
[06:13] <bluefoxicy> installing random programs off the net is an issue with the user
[06:14] <bluefoxicy> Remember also that the LSB is heading towards IV support, so this will be possible later anyway
[06:14] <Burgundavia> but you limit the security risk by promoting use of the repos
[06:14] <bluefoxicy> yes but you limit usability that way as well
[06:14] <Burgundavia> not really
[06:15] <bluefoxicy> I'm very user oriented.  I want Linux to have some way for independent vendors to shelve software that can be bought and installed from CD
[06:15] <Burgundavia> as a system infested with spyware/malware is not usable
[06:15] <bluefoxicy> and IVs are not going to package 400 different packages for 400 different systems
[06:15] <Burgundavia> I want that system too, but I only want it for stuff that cannot be packaged in a distro neutral way
[06:16] <bluefoxicy> it's impossible to separate it.
[06:16] <bluefoxicy> the system can't be inherantly designed so that spyware isn't installable but benign apps are
[06:16] <bluefoxicy> well, it can be
[06:16] <Burgundavia> but you can limit the risk by not promoting installing out of a webbrowser
[06:16] <bluefoxicy> but you have to exclude some benign apps as well.
[06:16] <Burgundavia> as users cannot tell the difference
[06:16] <bluefoxicy> dude, the more warning boxes a user gets
[06:17] <bluefoxicy> the more he clicks through them
[06:17] <bluefoxicy> when there's too many he says fuck it and installs windows
[06:17] <bluefoxicy> pirated windows
[06:17] <Burgundavia> that is why you never have install out of a webbrowser
[06:17] <bluefoxicy> from gnutella
[06:17] <bluefoxicy> with virus infections in the ISO
[06:17] <Burgundavia> they are working on a new software map installer using pymozembed
[06:17] <Burgundavia> see the UDU wiki
[06:17] <bluefoxicy> yes and gues what?
[06:17] <bluefoxicy> if ID Software can use it to package Quake 4
[06:18] <bluefoxicy> then GAIN can use it to package Gator for Linux
[06:18] <Burgundavia> we are not going to eliminate spyware
[06:18] <Burgundavia> but if there is no installing out of ff/otehr web browser, then you are never going to have an issue
[06:18] <bluefoxicy> exactly my point
[06:18] <bluefoxicy> dude
[06:18] <bluefoxicy> people will go to the web, download the file, and run the packager against it
[06:18] <bluefoxicy> or they'll download spyware with a graphical installer.
[06:19] <bluefoxicy> let Firefox worry about Firefox security and spyware; they do a good job preventing it on Windows
[06:19] <Burgundavia> not really
[06:19] <Burgundavia> windows doesn't solve the underlying issue of promoting random bytes off the net
[06:19] <bluefoxicy> users don't just click "Yes" in FF on Win; they click "click here to download," then "open," then "yes I'm sure I want to open this potentially dangerous file"
[06:20] <bluefoxicy> just like I went to sourceforge when gtk-gnutella was busted in ubuntu
[06:20] <bluefoxicy> and clicked the gtk-gnutella deb link, and ran dpkg on it
[06:20] <Burgundavia> most people will not do that
[06:20] <bluefoxicy> then most people won't be able to install Doom3, because we don't have it packaged yet.
[06:20] <bluefoxicy> and so they'll decide that linux sucks and go back to windows.
[06:20] <Burgundavia> and if you promote a gui software installer, which links into your repos, then you have gone a long way towards mitigating that
[06:21] <bluefoxicy> nope
[06:21] <bluefoxicy> you've gone a long way towards mitigating users installing benign software that they want/need unless they're technicians
[06:21] <Burgundavia> I agree there does need to be a way to install non-free stuff
[06:21] <bluefoxicy> but it doesn't have to be repos
[06:21] <bluefoxicy> it has to be point and click
[06:22] <Burgundavia> not in a web browser
[06:22] <bluefoxicy> in or out of it
[06:22] <Burgundavia> cd distibuted stuff
[06:22] <bluefoxicy> ok, listen, I'm only saying tihs one time
[06:22] <bluefoxicy> a web browser and a CD are the same thing.
[06:22] <bluefoxicy> If it's on a CD, I pop the CD in and click it.
[06:22] <Burgundavia> web browser point and click in inherently dangerous and will only lead to malware
[06:22] <bluefoxicy> If it's on the web, I save it and then run it from nautilus.
[06:22] <Burgundavia> there is a difference in how the user perceives it
[06:22] <bluefoxicy> where do you see the difference?
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[06:22] <bluefoxicy> no there's not
[06:23] <bluefoxicy> the user perceives "I have a program I want to install"
[06:23] <bluefoxicy> and users are monkeyis
[06:23] <bluefoxicy> they'll stick their hand in the hole, grab the food, and yank continuously trying to get their fist out.
[06:23] <Burgundavia> no, users shouldn't have to think about this stuff
[06:23] <bluefoxicy> the more you put things in their way, the more they'll fight through it
[06:23] <Burgundavia> that is why you promote the gui software installer
[06:23] <Burgundavia> and cd based installs
[06:24] <bluefoxicy> GUI software installers should use packages.
[06:24] <bluefoxicy> installing software without using a package damages the system
[06:24] <Burgundavia> absolutely
[06:24] <bluefoxicy> it drops it in somewheere without keeping a record of what it just did with my system.
[06:24] <Burgundavia> I don't disagree that all software should use the native packaging system
[06:24] <Amaranth> isn't autopackage supposed to solve this?
[06:24] <Burgundavia> I just don't think that you should be able to install out of the webbrowser
[06:24] <bluefoxicy> anyway I gotta go
[06:24] <Burgundavia> np
[06:25] <bluefoxicy> you can't possibley stop people from installing downloaded software
[06:25] <bluefoxicy> in the worst case they'll google for it.
[06:25] <Burgundavia> but you can train people to not look there first
[06:25] <bluefoxicy> Amaranth:  i'm more interested in the alterior effects, such as runtime dependency resolution ("soft linking" wtf?)
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[06:52] <Amaranth> If anyone here is an op in #ubuntu, please look now.
[06:54] <mdke> gosh
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[07:32] <lsuactiafner> ok to play wmv files native amd64 bit users need a staticly linking binary compiled for a 32bit system
[07:32] <lsuactiafner> then its possible for mplayer to use the codecs as it should
[07:33] <wasabi> sounds about right
[07:33] <lsuactiafner> yeh i did it yesterday night. i once spoke to a guy here that compiles the mplayer package 
[07:34] <lsuactiafner> want to ask him to submit mplayer64 that will give better performance to play ported codecs
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[07:34] <lsuactiafner> and a mplayer32 static binary for amd64 users to play wmv files..
[07:35] <zyga> hello :-)
[07:35] <lsuactiafner> zyga : was it you?
[07:35] <zyga> lsuactiafner: meaning?
[07:36] <zyga> lsuactiafner: ah, no
[07:36] <lsuactiafner> (;
[07:36] <zyga> lsuactiafner: BTW with windows xp 64 around can't we get their 64bit codecs?
[07:36] <zyga> and another BTW: does windows xp 64 use 32bit internet explorer? if not they have no flash either, right?
[07:37] <lsuactiafner> i think the win32 codecs for mplayer are currently reverse engineered
[07:37] <lsuactiafner> so it will take a brave soul to hack @ the 64bit ones
[07:37] <zyga> lsuactiafner: if they are fully reverse engeered then where's the source code ;]  ?
[07:38] <zyga> lsuactiafner: anyway you are probably somewhat right
[07:38] <zyga> they are modified
[07:38] <lsuactiafner> yeh not sure tho
[07:39] <lsuactiafner> anyone here got a 32bit unbuntu install they can use to make static binaries for amd64? since i used a slackware 10.1 chroot for it
[07:40] <lsuactiafner> think it would be best if a ubuntu system was used
[07:44] <Lathiat> are there any #ubuntu ops about?
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[07:52] <zul> lsuactiafner: why dont you debootstrap a chroot for ubuntu 686?
[07:54] <Lathiat> lsuactiafner: also look at 'pbuilder'
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[07:57] <lsuactiafner> i dont have ubuntu 686
[07:57] <lsuactiafner> and i'm on a 5k/s dailup in south-africa
[07:57] <lsuactiafner> not gonna download a iso 
[07:57] <lsuactiafner> gonna check pbuilder now
[07:58] <lsuactiafner> i cant find into about submitting a package to ubuntu?
[07:59] <lsuactiafner> since i think i'm not the only amd64 user that found not being able to play wmv ect annoying (even with all possible codecs installed)
[08:00] <Treenaks> lsuactiafner: well, that has a reason..
[08:00] <Treenaks> lsuactiafner: I think you can guess
[08:02] <lsuactiafner> Treenaks : yes i know about not violating copyrights ect
[08:03] <lsuactiafner> but the problem is an amd64 system with a mplayer64bit binary cant use the win32 codecs
[08:03] <lsuactiafner> only a 32bit staticly linked binary can
[08:03] <lsuactiafner> so if i make  a 32bit staticly linked binary the user can go download all the codecs he wants from mplayerhq
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[08:04] <Treenaks> lsuactiafner: yes.. the problem is mixing 32 and 64 bit stuff
[08:04] <Treenaks> best way to solve this is complain to someone that he sent you a crappy file
[08:05] <lsuactiafner> well, i got a 8mb staticly linked binary that can play wmv files on my 64bit system. i just need to figure out how to spread it to other ppl heh
[08:09] <lsuactiafner> ccache > all
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[08:48] <lsuactiafner> ok making packages rely on programs that automatically recompile the source ect.. that wont work for me
[08:49] <lsuactiafner> i have the binary and all i want to do to is put the binary in a .deb packages to make it cp binary /usr/local/bin/
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[08:57] <robertj_> does anyone know if the hoary LiveCD has known problems on G5s?
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[09:18] <wasabi> Yes.
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[09:55] <tube013> anybody have an idea why a patch would apply fine during a dpkg-build in my normal environment and then not apply in a chroot environment?
[09:56] <lsuactiafner> chroot is differant?
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[09:56] <crimsun> tube013: dpatch?
[09:57] <tube013> crimsun: yea its a dpatch.
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[09:57] <zul> tube013: what package?
[09:57] <crimsun> tube013: and you b-d on dpatch and invoke it properly in debian/rules?
[09:57] <crimsun> (or use the cdbs equiv?)
[09:58] <tube013> I'm kind of new to packaging, and am just getting started by reading some of the guides on the wiki, and the debian New maintainers guide.
[09:59] <tube013> ie.  you a little over my head.
[09:59] <crimsun> ok, in $package/debian/control, do you have dpatch listed as a Build-Depends?
[10:00] <tube013> nope, however I have dpatch installed in the chroot.  if that is what you are getting after?
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[10:00] <crimsun> well, you should still b-d on dpatch, because when you pbuild it, it still needs the explicit b-d
[10:01] <tube013> okay I'll add it to the control file and see what happens.
[10:01] <crimsun> ok, so dpatch is installed in the chroot. How are you invoking dpatch in debian/rules?
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[10:02] <tube013> I started with an existing package, that won't compile with the current gcc, and made a patch for it, the existing package already had 2 dpatches which apply fine in both enviroments
[10:03] <crimsun> ok, and you added your new dpatch to debian/patches/00list?
[10:03] <tube013> yup, its there.  03_make-buildabe
[10:03] <crimsun> ok, so when you debuild binary, where is it hitching?
[10:04] <crimsun> I recommend you look at pbuilder instead of a plain chroot
[10:05] <tube013> it fails to apply my new dpatch.  however the exact same source directory and debian/ build with fine with dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -us -uc in my normal environment.
[10:05] <tube013> I tried pbuilder first got frustrated by the same problem, so I figured maybe it was a pbuilder thing
[10:06] <tube013> created the chroot, and re did the whole patch process in the chroot, but same results.
[10:09] <crimsun> is it failing outright due to rejections, or is it silently not applying it?
[10:10] <crimsun> please upload your .dsc and .diff.gz to a publicly-accessible web site, and I'll look
[10:11] <tube013> well I just found that it is rejecting the patch
[10:11] <crimsun> so your dpatch looks to be invalid
[10:12] <tube013> yea but why would the same patch apply in my normal environment
[10:12] <crimsun> because your normal environment differs from your chroot
[10:13] <crimsun> make sure the dpatch applies cleanly in your chroot
[10:14] <tube013> thats what I'm after....
[10:14] <tube013> here's the command I used to create the patch, after modifying 2 header files:
[10:14] <tube013> diff -Nru libmp4-2.0.0-orig/ libmp4-2.0.0 > make-buildable.patch
[10:15] <tube013> looking at the corresponding patch it looks correct, I then did the following to make it a dpatch:
[10:15] <tube013> dpatch patch-template -p "03_make-buildable" "make buildable on hoary" < ../make-buildable.patch > debian/patches/03_make-buildable.dpatch
[10:16] <crimsun> (on hoary or breezy?)
[10:16] <tube013> hoary
[10:17] <crimsun> does it build with gcc-4.0?
[10:17] <crimsun> i.e., does your dpatch make it buildable with gcc-4.0?
[10:18] <tube013> the patch makes it build with gcc-3.3 and 3.4
[10:18] <tube013> it changes a couple NULL's to 0's thats it
[10:18] <crimsun> ok, test if that's sufficient for gcc-4.0
[10:19] <crimsun> at this point, fixes should be targeted for breezy
[10:19] <tube013> okay,  I'll work on it.  thanks for your help
[10:20] <crimsun> np. If you can pass me the dpatch, I'll see if I can reproduce your dpatch failure in pbuilder
[10:23] <tube013> okay, here is the dpatch: http://tube013.org/03_make-buildable.dpatch
[10:24] <tube013> its for libmp4 from marillat
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[10:25] <crimsun> k
[10:26] <tube013> hmm.  just looked at one of the targets, and it seems to have been patched.  geuss maybe I should try with out my dpatch on my chroot and see what happens.
[10:31] <crimsun> ah, it's only in debian-marillat
[10:31] <tube013> yea I was trying to compile some packages from there and rarewares so not to interrupt with the ubuntu repos.  
[10:32] <tube013> turns out it compiles fine in the chroot without the patch.  I just wrongly assumed since I needed it in my normal env. I would need it in the chroot
[10:32] <tube013> shows me.
[10:38] <lsuactiafner> crimsun : i made a static 32 bit mplayer binary for the amd64 architecture so that ppl can play files that need use the win32bit codecs
[10:39] <lsuactiafner> but my packaging for debian needs work, would you mind to look @ it and fix it up?
[10:39] <crimsun> lsuactiafner: 64-bit mplayer doesn't work with the 64-bit codecs from the amd64 debian-marillat repo?
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[10:40] <lsuactiafner> crimsun : nope, i installed the debian-marillat mplayer but it didnt play wmv files even witht he w32codecs installed
[10:40] <lsuactiafner> i think its cause the codecs are 32bit and mplayer64, so not compatible, so my binary is mplayer32 and it can play wmv files if the codecs are installed
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[10:41] <lsuactiafner> its also staticly linked so emulation is transparent ect
[10:41] <crimsun> lsuactiafner: please put a link on MOTUTodo
[10:43] <lsuactiafner> MOTUodo?
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[10:43] <crimsun> wiki/MOTUTodo
[10:44] <lsuactiafner> "ftp://ftp.puk.ac.za/outgoing/mplayer-amd64hammer-32bit_1 1.0pre7-3.3.4-0.3ubuntu6_amd64.tar.gz" but ftp://ftp.puk.ac.za/outgoing/MPlayer-1.0pre7_32bit-for-amd64.tar.bz2 is cleaner
[10:44] <lsuactiafner> k
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[10:47] <lsuactiafner> tho the package is really screwed up since i couldnt use the fakeroot ect tools since my chroot was slackware 10.1
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[10:58] <lsuactiafner> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/join_form gives me errors
[10:58] <lsuactiafner> rather, gives me nothign
[10:58] <lsuactiafner> link bokren?
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[11:29] <chuck_> hey
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[11:56] <Simira> hey, can someone kick Mithrandir out of bed?
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