[02:39] <Speedy2> Hey all.  Can anyone detail what changes are made between the "raw" KDE 3.4 release and the Kubuntu version?
[02:42] <amu> hmm if you read the logfiles, could be 1 way, well it takes days to explain it :)
[02:43] <amu> logfile==changelogs 
[02:45] <Speedy2> amu:  Where is this changelog located?
[02:46] <amu> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/changelogs/pool/main/
[02:46] <Speedy2> I'm just curious if any core changes have been made, or if they have been cosmetic, such as the graphic image, etc
[02:46] <Speedy2> Hrm
[02:46] <amu> well some of them are done ... some of them are still in progress ... 
[02:46] <Speedy2> I see kdelibs, but only 3.3.2
[02:47] <Speedy2> amu: Well, my preference is to get as close as to a RAW KDE 3.4 setup as possible
[02:47] <Speedy2> (i.e. I prefer minimal amount of changes)
[02:47] <Speedy2> But I wanted to understand what changes were made.
[02:48] <dato> Speedy2: http://packages.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/
[02:48] <amu> hmm you're right, mvo do the changelogs, you can ask him directly 
[02:48] <dato> amu: see url above :)
[02:50] <amu> dato: .oO ic ;) 
[02:51] <Speedy2> Hrm.  Looks like mostly cosmetic changes
[02:54] <Riddell> Speedy2: sudo support is the most core change
[02:55] <Speedy2> Hey there Riddell
[02:55] <Speedy2> Riddell: Understood.  Support for things like a USB pen-drive being plugged-in and appearing on desktop, that just makes use of KDE's HAL and so-on?
[03:00] <Riddell> yes
[03:02] <Speedy2> Cool.
[04:29] <Riddell> very early draft of the roadmap: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuRoadmap
[05:27] <Speedy2> Riddell: Thanks a lot, that was really really informative.
[05:28] <Speedy2> System Preferences from Ben Meyer (IceFox) is really damn cool looking.  If I'm not mistaken, I think he gets a lot of his inspiration from OS X :)
[06:32] <Riddell> yes he does :)
[07:02] <Speedy2> Is that an actual program or just a mock up?
[07:02] <Speedy2> I guess I could ask Ben...
[07:07] <Speedy2> Riddell: Small issue on that roadmap:  "better menu hormony GNOME-KDE"
[07:07] <Speedy2> I'm assuming you meant "harmony" :)
[07:08] <Riddell> Speedy2: it's an actualy program, I had it working once but it doesn't want to work just now
[07:09] <Riddell> Speedy2: I'm still proofreading it :)
[07:09] <Riddell> then it has to be edited by the editor dudes then approved by the important canonical dudes
[07:09] <Riddell> then profit!
[07:12] <Speedy2> ;)
[07:13] <Speedy2> drop an 'm' and an 'o' and the meaning really changes.
[07:13] <Speedy2> I hear that business is profitable!
[07:38] <amu> s/profit/world domination 
[07:41] <Riddell> "Kubuntu Breezy comes with world peace included"
[08:45] <amu> "powered by Pope BENEDICTVM XVI"
[10:39] <KaiL> maybe interesting for ubuntu: http://dot.kde.org/1114349315/
[10:39] <KaiL> an MS Access replacement...
[10:59] <Riddell> hmm, we don't seem to have knoda packaged
[10:59] <Riddell> it's still in pre-beta
[11:00] <Riddell> as is kexi
[11:00] <Riddell> we should look at them both and work out if one is usable
[11:04] <KaiL> are there plans to add matrox' "mtx"-Module to linux-restricted-modules?
[11:05] <Riddell> never heard of it, you'd have to ask ubuntu 
[11:10] <KaiL> btw. what I've seen as doing support in #kubuntu the screen detection is the most problematic point on install
[11:11] <Riddell> interesting.  there's been some BoFs about that here but I've not gone to any
[11:12] <KaiL> BoFs?
[11:12] <Riddell> I think what's needed is a config tool to be able to fix that manualls (without editing xong.conf by hand) but daniels doesn't like that
[11:12] <Riddell> birds of feather meeting, this ubuntu conference is based around small meetings of people interested in topics
[11:13] <KaiL> ah
[11:16] <KaiL> the best would be, if we could depend on Xorg own DDC detection and only enhance this (with a fallback, after which the user gets asked ;)
[11:17] <Riddell> enhanced detection is what they want
[11:18] <KaiL> and there the user only needs to select resolution + refreshrate from a list, as in the medium level in dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg :)
[11:20] <KaiL> if you can avoid writing the information to xorg.conf, changing the screen is more easy
[11:22] <KaiL> btw. do you know, why hotplug doesn't handle AGP devices?
[11:23] <KaiL> or is that only a leftover from sarge here?
[11:26] <Riddell> AGP == accelarated graphics port?  can you hotplug that?
[11:27] <KaiL> hotplug also handles the driver loading on boot ;)
[11:28] <Riddell> ah right.  not sure, I havn't been to the hotplug BoFs either :)
[11:29] <Riddell> that sort of thing needs to be taken up with the relevant ubuntu developers
[11:29] <KaiL> on sarge you see a nice "PCI-ID 1:00:00 ignored, on ubuntu you "only" see that the module isn't loaded later
[11:30] <KaiL> PCI-ID 01:00.0..
[12:10] <Speedy2> Using DDC can be problematic for displays using a BNC cable
[12:10] <Speedy2> (i.e. no DB-15)
[12:11] <Speedy2> The frustrating part is that normally the X configuration tools will ask you a sync range, instead of asking you to specify a vertical refresh rate
[12:13] <Speedy2> How these things can be arcane in 2005 is beyond me.
[12:14] <Riddell>  BNC cable cable?  like ethernet thinnet?
[12:14] <Speedy2> Sort of
[12:15] <Speedy2> Higher end CRTs will have BNC inputs
[12:15] <Speedy2> Seperate inputs for R,G,B and H-Sync & V-Sync
[12:15] <Speedy2> No DDC in that case
[12:15] <Riddell> don't they have VGA?
[12:15] <Speedy2> VGA == Red, Green, Blue + Hsync + Vsync
[12:15] <Speedy2> The DDC stuff was added on to some unused pins
[12:16] <Speedy2> For instance, the monitor I have, Mitsubishi DiamondPro 900u has DB-15 and BNC inputs
[12:16] <Speedy2> If I hook it up via BNC, DDC detection fails and the stupid xconfig or xf86config or whatever puts it to 60 Hz.
[12:17] <Speedy2> I say put an "advanced" option where the user can specify the resolution, refresh rate and ask the monitor size to calculate the DPI