/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/05/08/#ubuntu-devel.txt

=== Clint giggles.
tfheendone12:01
Netsnipetfheen: thanks12:02
Netsnipetfheen: i see you're in .au now12:02
tfheenyeah12:02
tfheenUDU12:02
Netsnipetfheen: ?12:02
tfheenUbuntu Down Under, the development conference in Sydney this week12:02
Netsnipeah12:02
mdkeNetsnipe, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HardwareSupport might help, if you haven't already seen it12:06
Netsnipemdke: ta12:13
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tsenggood morning sydney12:43
Simiragood morning tseng and Sydney12:44
tsenghi Simira 12:45
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thechitowncubsSince you guys are the developers 01:05
thechitowncubsI'd thought I'd ask a quick question... is it possible to rebuild the previews for the themes in the themes preferences dialog (my previews aren't showing up anymore)01:05
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dholbachhey01:08
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jsgotangcohola01:18
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hypatiatseng: You about?01:27
thechitowncubsHey01:28
hypatiatseng: I seem to have somehow ended up as a lead on http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/IntroDeveloperDocs with you as second??01:28
=== hypatia is not quite sure how this came about
hypatiaEspecially since I'm not there today ;)01:28
thechitowncubsjust curious, how did you guys get into linux at first?01:29
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louiejdub: ?01:29
tsenghypatia: hi.01:31
tsenghypatia: the managers added you as first, i added as second, as i prposed it01:31
hypatiaRight.01:31
hypatiaThat's a bit odd, because I'm not a sponsered attendee.01:31
tsengare you present?01:31
hypatiaNo.01:31
tsengalright.01:32
hypatiatseng: I'm still happy to help out and even to work on the spec.01:32
hypatiaBut lead might be expecting a bit much :)01:32
tsenghypatia: sure. ill replace you on the bof01:32
hypatiatseng: spiv was the one who pointed it out to me.01:32
hypatiatseng: he said he's talk to the managers.01:32
tsengi havent seen it scheduled yet anyway01:32
hypatiaIt's on today's schedule at 10:45.01:33
hypatiatseng: Well, fill me in on how the BoF goes and on what work is needed. I can meet you on Saturday if that helps.01:34
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jdubhypatia: nicw blog entry01:34
tsenghypatia: sure.01:34
hypatiajdub: really? I thought you'd think it was a bit negative.01:35
hypatiaI shouldn't do thinking for other people.01:35
tsenghypatia: ill try and find another second just for management sake01:35
hypatiatseng: sure, thanks.01:35
louieblah01:36
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tsenghypatia: whiprush and jerome are going to attend.01:37
hypatiatseng: cool.01:37
jdubhypatia: it's accurate.01:37
hypatiait does sound like a project I'd be interested in working on.01:37
jdubhypatia: and a lot of people agree with you.01:37
hypatiait was just a surprise to see me volunteered for it.01:37
tsengjdub: put mary back on planet!01:37
hypatiatseng: if involved people have time on Saturday we can talk about it.01:38
hypatiatseng: I'm not a member yet. I'll put myself up at the next CC meeting with the specific aim of being re-planeted.01:38
tsengok great.01:38
tsenghypatia: :D01:38
Amaranthgrr, where the heck is mono?01:41
Amaranthit got accepted and built successfully last night01:41
Amaranthwhen do the mirrors sync?01:41
hypatiatseng: looking forward to it. Yay docs.01:42
jsgotangcohypatia, you rock01:42
hypatiathanks :)01:43
hypatialooking forward to chatting to you Saturday as well.01:43
jsgotangcoNo problem01:43
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jsgotangcoim going up01:43
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Unfrgiventseng: i'll be interested in the IntroDeveloperDocs BOF as well (I'm Ankur, the guy who was there for the Mono Bof with u and ajmitch). i'm hoping to come to the IntroDeveloperDoc Bof but the technician to repair my laptop is due this morning, so it depends on that.02:03
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hypatiatseng, Unfrgiven: latest word from spiv is that they'll try to reschedule to Saturday anyway, so that I can be there.02:08
hypatiabut who knows really, the scheduling must be evil incarnate by now.02:09
Unfrgivenhypatia: :)02:16
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tsenghypatia: great thanks02:26
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tsengspiv: so, is the bof this session moved?02:33
spivtseng: JaneW/cvd said it would be, but they were swamped by tshirts, so probably best to get them to confirm.02:34
tsengspiv: ok.02:35
tsengshe just walked out02:35
tsengwin02:35
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Unfrgiventseng: my laptop repair guy is here so im not going to be able to make this bof if its scheduled now.. ill definately be there if its some other time.02:43
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hypatiaUnfrgiven: well, if it's now I won't be there either!02:47
Unfrgivenhypatia: yeah good point02:47
jsgotangcoits rescheduled for saturday accdg to tseng 03:08
hypatiaSounds good.03:08
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tfheenfabbione: ping?03:23
tfheenfabbione: we have a writeup in twenty minutes; I'm in sublime 2 so if you'd just come here when you're free03:25
thomtfheen/fabbione: i dumped the notes from the bof yesterday into the wiki, ping if there are questions...03:27
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tfheenthom: yay; you're welcome to come join us if you'd like. :)03:28
tfheen(and I think fabbione is not on IRC atm , since his client is just his danish one so if somebody sees him, it would be nice if you could relay from me)03:29
dilingerhe was just at the kernel bof03:30
dilingerbut he ran off to write up stuff03:30
tfheenok, he'll run past here, then03:30
dilingerand he's back03:31
tfheencare to ask him to come to sublime 2 when he's ready for the xen writeup?03:31
fabbionetfheen: i am here in global...03:32
fabbionedid thombot add his notes to the wiki?03:32
tfheenfabbione: 03:27 < thom> tfheen/fabbione: i dumped the notes from the bof yesterday into the wiki, ping if there are questions...03:32
fabbioneroger03:32
fabbionetfheen: i am on the way up03:32
tfheenfabbione: yay03:32
tfheenooh, cutting and pasting with irssi and pterm outside screen actually work correctly without munging the lines.  YAY!03:33
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thomcc: um, how are you guys providing feedback? FasterBoot just reappeared in my queue and i have no lcue why or what i should do? :-)03:43
ccthom: i dont know actually; simon seemed to have pushed it back to you. now, do you need another BOF?03:46
mptthom: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/FasterBoot?action=info03:46
ccthom: if no, remove UduBof, and change to EditedSpecification. i've given you permission (i read it and fleshed it out last night anyways)03:47
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thomcc: ok, right. will do (we're not planning on having another bof)03:50
thomcc: thanks03:51
ccthom: ok, so, i hope to see it as EditedSpecification03:51
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dholbachdoko: nice to have you around04:09
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fabbionemjg59: ping?04:22
fabbionepitti: ping?04:22
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dholbachpitti: fabbione pinged you 7 minutes ago04:29
dholbachjdub: can you mail me or upload our UbuntuAndUpstreams stuff?04:31
fabbionewe are in the same room :)04:32
dholbachfabbione: i don't really want to know what you guys are doing ;-p04:32
fabbionedholbach: pitti is yelling to push more....04:33
zullalala...i didnt hear that04:33
dholbachfabbione: i know... he always did it when he was in our room04:34
zul*sigh* wont someone please think of the children04:36
mjg59thom: gpe-bluetooth has a moderate number of gpe library references, but they're almost entirely:04:36
mjg59a) in the OBEX vcard parsing04:36
mjg59b) system tray stuff04:36
mjg59c) icon stuff04:36
mjg59So that's easy enough to deal with04:36
thomhrm, that should be easy enough to rip out04:37
=== cc should
cci should've brought the iPaq. gpe-bluetooth is on it :P04:37
mjg59cc: Yeah, we've been playing with mine04:37
tfheenjbailey: hmm; wrt initramfs, you're going to upload crackoftheday stuff post-UDU, I guess.04:37
pittidholbach: fabbione just talked to me04:38
tfheenwe should have jabber notifications or something as the proposals flow through04:42
cctfheen: xen is a go after simon looks at it04:42
tfheencc: I just noticed.04:43
fabbionemjg59: do we have any more session on livecdperformance?04:43
fabbionemjg59: otherwise we should review the specs you wrote down adn send them to cc04:43
tfheencc: the process then is he puts it back in my queue, I put it in MattZimmermanQueue?04:43
cctfheen: no, you go and move it to EditedSpec queue (physically, you move the post-it note), and then someone (mdz/mark) looks at it and approves it04:44
tfheencc: is this documented somewhere? :)04:45
cctfheen: no, it was said during monday's welcoming; i reckon it probably deserves a wiki page; will get to it when i get a free moment, okay?04:45
tfheencc: I can give it a shot and you can correct me?04:45
tfheenit should probably be the specspec page, actually. :P04:46
cctfheen: sure, have fun :P04:46
jbaileytfheen: Sure.  I don't imagine that elmo04:48
jbaileytfheen: 's processing NEW right at the moment. =)04:48
tfheenjbailey: he's such a lazy bum. ;P04:50
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jsgotangcojdub, GO UP NOW FOR LiveCD training BOF04:51
jsgotangcomako, ping04:53
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fabbionepitti: i think i found the command to reset the alsa layer via esd without killing the server05:01
fabbionepitti: do you still have the test setup?05:01
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fabbionepitti: nevermind that symbol is not exported via libasound05:05
makojsgotangco: hola05:06
makoamu, Riddell: around?05:07
makois there a place i can poinit people who want to contribute kubuntu artwork?05:07
ogramako, Riddell has set up a MOTUKDE team wiki page....i guess that would be that place05:08
tfheencc: uhm, Xen now includes editedspec as well as draftspec, that's broken, right?05:09
cctfheen: definintely; why is that so? i remember deleting draftspec and only having editedspec05:09
tfheencc: no idea05:10
cctfheen: oh, i didn't delete it; i let simon vet it once, and he didn't delete it05:10
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cctfheen: he should fix it now. i just larted him05:11
tfheencc: ah, ok.  Thanks05:11
makoogra: for artwork?05:12
tfheencc: you have SpecProcess in your queue now.05:12
cctfheen: hah. nice.05:12
tfheenit's written according to how I've understood the process, so on items where it's inaccurate, it might be good to note that specifically as I'm probably not the only one to have misunderstood.05:13
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cctfheen: you're Lead :)05:17
tfheencc: uhm, ok.  If you say so.05:18
tfheencc: just edit it appropriately and I'll go move my Xen post-it note.05:18
dilingerheh, that's what this conference needs.  kool-aid05:20
dilingernamed after tools, of course. so, we can drink the baz or launchpad koolaid05:21
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dholbachUnfrgiven: are you there?05:22
amumako: yep05:22
dholbachUnfrgiven: does 15:30 at "forum" sound fine to you?05:23
makoamu: Riddell gave me the answer05:25
cctfheen: get janew to take a pass thru, and i think tomorrow everyone gets to read that :)05:26
fabbionemjg59: dude?05:27
tfheencc: yay, cool.05:28
tfheencc: it should explain what NewSpec means05:29
tfheencc: and it says '"CCQ or SSQ" (yes, both of them.)' which doesn't make sense.05:31
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Unfrgivendholback: yes ill be there06:05
Unfrgivenanyone know which room dholback is right now?06:06
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tsengUnfrgiven: lunch.06:18
tsengUnfrgiven: he should be back in gloabal soon.06:19
tsengUnfrgiven: im in global now if you want something MOTU.06:19
tfheencc: you saw my comments?06:22
cctfheen: i just got back from lunch man! but yeah i'll be looking at 'em soon. its not highpriority at the moment. i have some launchpad stuff on my plate06:22
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tfheencc: ack, just checking since I was offline for lunch so I wouldn't have seen any comments from you on it06:23
tsengi just had some food on my plate06:23
tsengit was nice.06:23
mptKamion: ping06:24
|QuaD-tseng: i saw the beginings of mono 1.1.6 in breezy, congrats06:28
Unfrgiventseng: ill come to global and see him shortly.06:30
Unfrgiventseng: thanks anyways06:30
tfheenbuntu starting in global now06:32
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tseng|QuaD-: its hardly ready.06:34
pittielmo: here? are you interested in AutomatedTesting BoF? (sublime 2)06:34
ccdaf: ping06:38
sladencc: he /was/ sitting next to me, just left06:38
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mptcc: He's in the Forum06:41
=== Amaranth wants new crack :/
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ccmpt: ok, i just need him to clarify something about his countryspecificlangs06:42
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elmopitti: yes, but I'm alos interested in cluster fses :(06:45
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Kamionmpt: pong07:01
mptKamion: I see you're on InstallerSimpleResize ... I have some UI mockups I did for resizing partitions in 2002, would they be useful for you at all?07:02
Kamionmpt: I don't think the UI is the problem07:02
Kamionmpt: simpleresize shouldn't even HAVE a UI, it should just do it :)07:03
Kamionapart from maybe a progress bar07:03
Kamionsimpleresize is a "make space for Ubuntu, somehow" option - there's not a lot of user interaction there07:03
mptKamion: So you shouldn't be able to decide, for example, how much of the space left over is available for each OS?07:03
Kamionnope07:03
Kamionit's simple07:03
Kamionin every sense of that word07:03
mptok07:04
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Kamionthe BOF will be about how to make that not suck ... :)07:04
Kamionmpt: (although I guess I can imagine a percentage slider or something - that's hard to do in debconf though, so we *might* be better avoiding it)07:06
mptYeah, my mockup has sliders :-)07:06
Kamionmpt: if you want to link to your mockups on the wiki page, that could be useful07:07
mptOk, they're not online anywhere07:07
Kamionsuppose I could implement a slider custom widget07:07
mptI'll make a separate page for them07:07
Kamionok, thanks07:07
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|QuaD-i have a question, what are the disadvantages of installers like mepis's (from the liveCD)07:12
Kamion|QuaD-: it's important for us only to have to fix bugs in one place; therefore integration is a very high priority07:13
Kamionthis isn't something that people who only have a live CD installer (and not a regular one) have to think about07:13
tfheenKamion: where are you ATM?07:14
Kamiontfheen: global07:14
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tfheenoh, there you are07:14
|QuaD-Kamion: right, which is why i am wondering what the disadvantages are, why more distributions aren't going to it07:15
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Unfrgivenanyone know the whereabouts of dholbach atm?07:24
tsenghe is coming!07:26
tsengforum.07:27
Kamion|QuaD-: I just told you :-)07:28
mptKamion: ok, page now linked to from InstallerSimpleResize07:28
Kamion|QuaD-: most distributions already have an installer, and maintaining more than one set of installer code really sucks, so nobody wants to do it07:28
|QuaD-Kamion: but why not ditch the installer07:28
fabbionejdub: ?07:29
Kamionbecause it has a lot of development effort put into it, and a lot of bug fixes07:29
Kamionyou cannot just "ditch the installer"07:29
fabbionejdub: the wiki just trashed all your changes to ClusterFileSystem07:29
Kamionnot if you're sensible07:29
fabbionehave a nice day, kthxbye07:29
|QuaD-Kamion: but you would be creating a more optimal environment07:29
Kamionwe will instead be writing a live CD installer that is tightly integrated with our existing installer07:30
|QuaD-isn't it easier to maintain just alivecd/installer combo than 2 seperate?07:30
Kamionwe still need a normal installer07:30
|QuaD-Kamion: ok07:30
Kamionpeople installing a bank of servers will not be interested in something that only supports installation from live CD07:30
Kamionand they will go and use something else07:31
Kamionmpt: thanks, looks interesting07:31
|QuaD-Kamion: ok, that makes sense07:31
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Kamionmpt: that mockup is kind of interesting when it comes to languages that have more plural forms than just "singular" and "plural", though ;)07:34
mptKamion: True, that hadn't occurred to me three years ago :-)07:35
thommjg59: dude, you're supposed to be in forum for HWDBRoadmap07:37
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dilingersladen: ping08:05
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fabbionecc: ping?08:48
fabbionecc: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/ClusterFilesystems <- up for your review08:49
ccfabbione: rock; will do it soonish08:51
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lifelessgrumpy is for ricers .... gentoo on speed09:03
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ctdmake hotplug loadfast kthnxbai09:08
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fabbionemjg59: are you coming down for the BOF?09:28
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fabbionedid anybody see mjg59 around?09:32
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mjg59fabbione: Yo09:32
mjg59fabbione: I'm in VibeOut - do you want me to come down there?09:32
mjg59thom: You'll be pleased to hear that you're on LaptopHardwareSupport09:33
fabbionemjg59: if you can come down it will be better..09:34
mjg59fabbione: Ok, I'll come down now09:34
fabbionemjg59: i am having problems to unplug my laptop atm09:34
fabbionethanks09:34
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fabbionecc: did you process Xen and ClusterFileSystem?09:36
ccfabbione: Xen i think i did (its already EditedSpecification); ClusterFileSystem no, i just had a whole stream of visitors, its on the todo list09:38
fabbionecc: ok thanks09:38
tfheenfabbione: I've pushed Xen fairly hard, iirc09:38
fabbionetfheen: yes.. i just couldnt find on the wall of {sh,f}ame09:39
tfheenit should be under EditedSpec there, iirc09:39
fabbioneyeps09:40
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lunitikhttps://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1020809:41
lunitikpretty please fix?  :(((09:41
sladendilinger: pong09:41
tsenglunitik: dont use breezy if you arent ready for broken shit09:42
lunitikIts like a 10 second job + upload  :'(09:42
ctdtseng: I came to breezy for things to break.09:42
tsengwe are a) very busy, b) have no bandwidth09:42
lunitiktseng: I'm ready for broken packages... but I mean, such a simple mistake?09:42
tsengits not a "mistake" on our part09:42
tsengits from debian09:42
ctdtseng: Things are so boring without updates every day.09:43
tsengmost of us arent even using breezy09:43
lunitiktseng: indeed... but surely a main component that hasn't had its depends modified is an Ubuntu mistake?09:43
tsengmost of the changes are from MOM09:43
tsengits not depends09:43
tsengthere is eds and eds1.209:43
tsengeds1.2 is wrong09:43
sladendilinger: I've added some more to the BootLogd page but it still needs testing what TIOCCONS is actually doing and what happens is the app dies (boom goes the logs?)09:43
tsengit needs blacklisted09:43
dilingersladen: oh, i actually figured it out09:44
dilingersladen: the kernel has a variable 'redirect'09:44
dilingertioccons(file) simply takes the fd and sets redirect to it09:44
lunitiktseng: no really... if you change the 0 to a 3 in the depends list, issue is fixed  :/09:44
dilingerif fd is 0, reset redirect to 009:44
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dilingerwhen writing to console, if redirect != 0, write to the fd/filp09:45
dilingerso, just a simple redirect09:45
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dilingerso bootlogd opens the pty slave/master, resets any current redirects w/ TIOCCONS, sets the console to write to the slave pty w/ TIOCCONS09:46
mvirkkilHow can I tokenize text using a delimiter if the text is utf8? Ie. are there any 'safe' bytes that couldn't exits in a utf8 character?09:46
thommjg59: i'm on what?09:46
tfheenmvirkkil: nullbytes, I think09:47
mjg59thom: LaptopHardwareSupport09:47
thom*sob*09:47
dilingerit then selects against the pty master, reads any output and stores in a ring buffer.  spit everything out directly to /dev/tty1 (which is why it needs to find it; TIOCCONS intercepts console messages, writing to the tty directly skips console)09:47
dilingeralso tries to open /var/log/boot09:47
dilingerif it can open it, empty ring buffer to file09:48
mvirkkiltfheen: Yeah, but not going to work in this case. I'm currently using the \t character, but I suppose a utf8 character could contain that byte as one of its bytes?09:48
mvirkkiltfheen: And are you should there  couldn't be one byte in a utf character of 4 bytes that is 0. 09:49
mvirkkilI guess I need to read up on unicode.09:50
dilingersladen: so, if the app dies, it's up to the kernel to figure out that the pts is no longer valid, and to stop redirecting09:51
dilingersladen: if it doesn't do that, it's a kernel bug09:51
lunitiktseng: bah... it is -3 ... sorry, I was wrong... just, rather annoying currently... I usually have no issue with bugs, went through menu and metacity bugs during hoary, but apt errors annoy me slightly more... I'll shut up though :(09:52
dilingersladen: so, given this information...09:53
sladendilinger: I think it might be a fire-and-forget command?09:56
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dilingeryea09:58
dilingerif it's not, i'll submit a patch to fix the callback09:58
thommjg59: i take it thats part of laptopmission?10:00
dilingersladen: if it looks good, i'll pass it off to colin10:02
sladenmvirkkil: 0xfe and 0xff are guaranteed not to exist in an UTF-8 stream10:03
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mvirkkilsladen: I'm thinking about the way the commands should be sent to the fifo. 10:04
sladenmvirkkil: everything else is a legal character but if you want to search for a space then you just have to search for 0x20 since any character below 128 is the same as ASCII/ISO8859-110:04
mvirkkilsladen: So I could just use a tab character as a delim, since it will not exist in any utf character?10:05
GheRiverores10:06
mvirkkilsladen: What format are you using to communicate between the frontend and the "backend"10:06
sladenmvirkkil: you'll only find it in a tab character---this is the becauty of UTF-8, all multi-byte characters will have the top-bit set10:07
mvirkkil?10:07
mvirkkilsladen: Yes, I seem to remember something like that :-)10:07
mvirkkilsladen: But only once you said it..10:07
mvirkkilsladen: What kind of a protocl are you planning to use for communications through the socket/fifo?10:08
sladenmvirkkil: if you need it, http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/unicode.html#utf-810:08
sladenmvirkkil: communication for what?10:08
mvirkkilsladen: Ie, how do you separate between commands, their args etc?10:08
mvirkkilsladen: Like settign the progressbar to a certain value.10:09
=== sladen confused. What's the context?
mvirkkilsladen: Or showing the text.10:09
mvirkkilsladen: In the USPlash context.10:09
mvirkkilsladen: Wasn't the idea that commands would be sent through the socket?10:10
fabbionecc: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDPerformance is in your queue too :)10:10
ccfabbione: yes, that i just noticed. joy joy, it just grows10:10
sladenmvirkkil: the v1 stuff at http://www.paul.sladen.org/projects/usplash/download/ uses a text string with space separated arguments, but the interface is private between usquirt and usplashd10:12
danielssladen: we don't actually need another bof for usplash, do we?10:12
=== Treenaks liked sladen's bof last time :)
danielsmjg59: ping10:13
mjg59Hi10:13
danielsmjg59: vibe the fuck out10:13
mvirkkilsladen: If you use space as a delim, how are you going to handle the case of free format text to be displayed. Basically if it was a rpc the following case: setpprogresstext(int time, char* text)10:13
mjg59Yeah, be there in a minute10:14
danielsword10:14
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sladendaniels: probably not.  I added shed load to the spec, can you have a quick oogle10:15
danielssure10:16
mvirkkilsladen: Are you going to use a tempfs or a fifo?10:16
tsengdaniels: represent.10:17
danielstseng: good times10:17
tseng /topic 10:18
tseng< daniels> mjg59: vibe the fuck out 10:18
sladenmvirkkil: I have code to use a fifo on a tempfs10:18
sladenmvirkkil: so probably eeasiest to stick with that10:18
mvirkkilsladen: Why on tempfs?10:19
sladenmvirkkil: can't write to a pipe on a read-only fs10:19
mvirkkilsladen: Hmm.. Are you sure?10:20
KamionI don't know if he's sure, but he's right; try it10:22
Kamioncjwatson@cairhien:~$ sudo mount -t tmpfs tmpfs /mnt10:23
Kamioncjwatson@cairhien:~$ sudo mkfifo /mnt/foo10:23
Kamioncjwatson@cairhien:~$ sudo mount -o remount,ro /mnt10:23
Kamioncjwatson@cairhien:~$ echo hello > /mnt/foo10:23
Kamion-bash: /mnt/foo: Permission denied10:23
mvirkkilKamion: krap.10:23
mvirkkilI was sure I've used it on a flash readonly disk.10:23
mvirkkilI stand corrected.10:24
mvirkkilKamion: Hey. you can.10:27
mvirkkilKamion: UIt's just that sudo echo crap > /ment/foo10:27
mvirkkilis wrong10:27
dilingersladen: so i'm going to assume that's an 'it looks ok'10:28
mvirkkilKamion: The pipe goes past the sudo10:28
elmokamion: next time you see keybuk,  beat him10:28
mvirkkilKamion: If you do that as root , it will work10:28
mvirkkilsladen: --^10:29
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tfheenKamion: you're not here.10:30
sladenKamion/mvirkkil: interesting, I just tried the same test and managed to disprove myself that it /did/ work...  I'm confused10:30
mvirkkilsladen: I'10:30
mvirkkilsladen: I've used it before. And according to the documentation it should wiork.10:31
tfheenKamion: where "here" is sublime210:31
sladen$ touch hello ; echo hello > pipe  & cat pipe 10:31
sladentouch: creating `hello': Read-only file system10:31
sladenhello10:31
mvirkkilsladen: There was a kernel bug in some 2.4 where it even modified the access times of the file, even though you didn't have permisions for it.10:31
sladenmvirkkil: this is 2.4 I'm testing on since the wifi still doesn't work un Ubuntu10:32
=== sladen nudges mjg59
mvirkkilmvirkkil@hylje:~/blotch$ sudo mount -t tmpfs tmpfs /mnt10:34
mvirkkilmvirkkil@hylje:~/blotch$ sudo mkfifo /mnt/foo10:34
mvirkkilmvirkkil@hylje:~/blotch$ sudo mount -o remount,ro /mnt10:34
mvirkkilmvirkkil@hylje:~/blotch$ sudo su -c 'echo hello > /mnt/foo'10:34
mvirkkilTand then when you cat /mnt/foo from another terminal, it will read the pipe, and the last command above will return.10:34
mvirkkilsladen: It should work on 2.410:35
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mvirkkilsladen: The kernel bug was about not checking for privs and has been fixed.10:36
mvirkkilor not repecting them when it came to writing access times10:36
tfheenanybody seen Kamion in the last twenty minutes?10:37
Lathiattfheen: behind you!10:37
mvirkkil11:23:11< Kamion> -bash: /mnt/foo: Permission denied10:37
tfheenLathiat: not really, given that I'm watching the only door to this room10:37
Lathiattfheen: maybe he has a cloak!10:38
mvirkkilsladen: Did you get it to work?10:38
tfheenblah, I'll just walk around randomly, then.10:38
tfheenKamion: if you're around, please find me.10:38
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mjg59It works for me10:52
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mjg59http://www.enlightenment.org/data/images/upload/efl.png - CRACK10:58
Lathiathaha10:58
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danielsembryo, euphoria, entice, emotion11:00
danielsthe only thing he's missing is eugenia11:00
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Micksaplacenta11:00
=== Micksa wonders if he knows what's going on
danielsMicksa: see mjg59's image11:01
sladenmvirkkil: sadly.  This is unfortunately one more barrier to me actually having to write some more code11:01
LathiatMicksa: http://www.enlightenment.org/data/images/upload/efl.png11:02
Micksaokay11:04
Micksaso my dumb joke holds :)11:04
danielsnot really, since enlightenment didn't start with a p, last I checked11:04
TreenaksLathiat: Dependancy Hell!11:05
Micksaneither does...11:05
Micksaoh never mind11:05
mvirkkilsladen: What are you referring to=?11:05
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thomCDBS INIT11:05
mvirkkilsladen: How about just using tab as a delimiter?11:05
thomTHE FUTURE IS HERE11:05
Treenaksthom: ?11:05
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dilingermake -f /usr/share/cdbs/3/cdbs-init.mk init311:05
ccno daf. how odd. 11:11
Zombjeez, what's next? init3 start2 aleve42 kicstart50 not-yet go?11:11
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dilingerZomb: yea, thom and infinity didn't seem to like the idea much.  it's ok, though; i'll show 'em all..11:16
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jordidilinger: 3?11:24
jordiWe were waiting for 2!11:25
dilingerwell yea, 3 adds support for init and booting :)11:25
=== Amaranth hugs cdbs
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AmaranthTurns way too long rules files for Python projects into 5 lines if I use all the features. :)11:26
tsengAmaranth: do you know how to do a rule for setup.py?11:30
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tsengAmaranth: i was trying to teach packaging today, dudes wanted to do python crack.11:31
mvirkkilI have a very simple version of something resembling USplash using a fifo for commands and libogl for drawing. The code is > 200 lines.11:31
mvirkkilCrap. I mean < 20011:32
tfheen> 200 lines doesn't say much. :P11:32
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tseng2 million, dude.11:32
tfheentseng: that's not too bad if they're all blank.11:32
Kamionmvirkkil: mm, yeah, I was being thick11:32
mvirkkilKamion: No worries. I was just really surprised at first. 11:33
tfheenanybody seen Scott around lately?11:33
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Amaranthtseng: A rule?11:34
Amaranthtseng: Explain what you mean.11:34
tsengyes11:34
tsengdebian/rules using cdbs11:34
tsengbut a simple python package with setup.py11:34
tsengas an example for newbies11:35
AmaranthWell, http://www.python.org/doc/current/dist/ is a good start. :)11:35
Amaranthhttp://www.python.org/doc/current/dist/simple-example.html11:35
=== tseng shrugs
AmaranthI don't understand what you want.11:36
AmaranthA real world example?11:36
tsengdebian/rules, dude11:36
AmaranthOh.11:36
tsengnm11:36
Amaranthhttp://dev.realistanew.com/rules11:37
Amarantherr, that actually has a bug11:37
=== tseng reads python-distutils
Amaranthfixed11:37
tsenghell yeah11:37
tsengthats love, thanks11:38
AmaranthHave you seen https://wiki.duckcorp.org/DebianPackagingTutorial/CDBS ?11:39
tsengyes11:39
AmaranthMy rules is just a copy+paste from there plus the manpage line.11:39
tsengive been too busy today to look it up, as its for someone else11:41
Amaranthah11:41
AmaranthIf it gets me more crack in Ubuntu I'm happy to help. ;)11:41
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SlackShrikehi02:56
SlackShrikei have a computer with a DVD+RW , CD-RW/DVD and 2 HD in RAID0 and the ubuntu-live don't boot. What i do ? Thanks!02:58
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dholbachhey mxpxpod 02:59
LathiatSlackShrike: Please take user questions to #ubuntu, this channel is for discussion about the the development of ubuntu.02:59
mxpxpodhey dholbach 03:00
SlackShrikeOK03:00
SlackShrikethanks03:00
SlackShrikeLathiat: excuse.  the caps Lock was on.03:02
Lathiatno problems03:02
SlackShrikeabout the development of ubuntu: When i find the process build of ubuntu ?03:03
TreenaksSlackShrike: process build?03:04
Treenaksbuild daemon?03:04
Treenaksbuild process?03:04
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SlackShrikebuild the ubuntu03:05
Treenaksone package? the entire distribution?03:05
SlackShrikehow to make the ubuntu !03:05
TreenaksCD images?03:05
SlackShriketoo03:05
Treenaksmaybe #ubuntu-br can help you better03:06
sivangHey Treenaks , 'sup ?03:06
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Taliesin`ho my gawd, my mirror is listed on the ubuntu mirror's page :P03:27
Burgundaviatrying to avoid that traffic thing?03:29
Taliesin`nah03:34
Taliesin`just didnt take people long to relise03:34
Taliesin`and or add it to the list :)03:34
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truluxheya folks03:43
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zulhey trulux03:46
truluxhey zul 03:46
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truluxzul: how was the SELinux BOF?03:49
zultrulux: im not sure since im not at udu03:49
truluxzul: Oh, I see, I'll ask pitti, mako or someone else :)03:50
zulgood idea :)03:51
truluxmako: among the Amaya issue, how's going UDU? :D03:51
tsengtrulux: theres an amaya issue?03:53
truluxtseng: I need to meet her for key signing03:54
Unfrgiventseng: hey03:55
tsenghey.03:55
Unfrgiveni needed some help with gpg keys... im having trouble sending the key to a keyserver.03:55
tsenggpg --send-key ID03:55
TreenaksUnfrgiven: gpg --send-key yourkeyid03:55
tsengwhere id is the second part03:55
tsengafter 1024D/03:55
Unfrgiventhe id... is that my email address?03:56
tsengits what i just said.03:56
Treenaksemail works too03:56
truluxUnfrgiven: yes03:56
Unfrgivenah right. ill give that a shot.03:56
Unfrgiventrulux: e-mail aint working :(03:56
truluxUnfrgiven: then just use the key ID03:56
Unfrgivenwhats a good server to send it to?03:56
=== trulux thinks about loved debuild -klorenzo@gnu.org
truluxUbuntuGet: MIT?03:57
Unfrgivenoh wait if i dont specify one, its going to "subkeys.pgp.net"03:57
truluxUbuntuGet: the pgp.net one?03:57
truluxUnfrgiven: no problemo :)03:57
Unfrgiventrulux: thanks :)03:57
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Unfrgiveni need to get my gpg key signed. can you help me with this tseng?04:03
tsengyes Unfrgiven, tommorow04:03
tsengwe need to do it in person.04:03
Unfrgiventseng: ok sure thing. since my laptop is still dead, what will you need to sign it? ill put it somewhere public.04:03
tsengi need the output of04:04
tsenggpg --fingerprint Your_ID04:04
TreenaksUnfrgiven: you'll need to print (preferably) gpg --fingerprint04:04
tsengand bring a govt photo id04:04
Unfrgiventseng: australian drivers license ok?04:04
tsengUnfrgiven: yes.04:04
Taliesin`lol04:04
Taliesin`more aussie's04:05
Taliesin`loving it :D04:05
Taliesin`Is ubuntu mainly driven by aussie's or something, lol04:05
tsengwe are all sitting in australia atm04:05
Unfrgiventseng: great, thanks for that. ill definately see you tomorrow. for now ill fiddle with some packaging04:05
Taliesin`:>04:05
tsengso alot of locals are geting involved04:05
Taliesin`<- Adelaide over here :)04:05
UnfrgivenTaliesin`: its even better when you live right across the road from UDU :)04:06
Taliesin`UDU ?04:06
Taliesin`elaborate please :P04:06
dholbachUbuntu Down Under04:06
Unfrgivenubuntu down under04:06
Taliesin`oh04:06
Unfrgivenhey dholbach 04:06
dholbach;-)04:06
Taliesin`is that something you guys are doing right now over in the eastern states?04:06
tsenguber dholbach underoos04:06
Unfrgivenlooks like everyone is still up :)04:06
dholbachunderoos? :-)04:06
Taliesin`25th to 30th eh?04:07
Unfrgivenindeed04:08
Taliesin`bugger04:09
Taliesin`wish i knew, would of taken holidays :D04:09
UnfrgivenTaliesin`: you could come on friday night and attend on saturday if you wanted04:09
Taliesin`nah, unfortunatly bills this week04:10
Taliesin`leaving me broke :>04:10
tsengits free!04:10
tsengas in beer04:10
Taliesin`maybe i could cover it under a company.. training...04:10
tsengand as in mako in a skirt04:10
tsengvery very free.04:10
Taliesin`lmao, no broke as plane ticket04:11
Taliesin`to get their04:11
Taliesin`besides, no one would let this PFY on a plane with his laptop :)04:11
tsengpfy?04:11
Taliesin`i gather you dont read BOFH :P04:11
Taliesin`Pimply Faced Youth04:11
Unfrgiventseng: lol :)04:12
Taliesin`their a policy at our company04:12
Taliesin`all staff must read BOFH ;)04:12
tsengthats productive.04:13
Taliesin`For sure :D04:13
Taliesin`helps us free space on our web servers :P04:13
Taliesin`jk04:13
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Unfrgivenis it better to build a package with "debuild -S" or "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot"?04:52
Unfrgivenis there any difference?04:52
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dholbachgood night!05:00
toresbeHow does the process of getting a package (already in Debian) into Ubuntu? (specifically, stopmotion, an, er, stopmotion animation thing :P05:26
toresbe) go?05:26
Lathiattoresbe: see the MOTU teem05:27
sladenwin 8805:28
toresbeLathiat: okay, I see05:28
toresbesladen: 88?! you have issues.05:28
toresbeI'm up to 4005:28
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zulanyone see this? http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/825305:57
Lathiatlooks favourable06:01
AstralJavaUhh.. nice writing.06:04
AstralJavaBut then, I've always liked that magazine.06:04
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zygahello07:17
zygais UDU over yet?07:18
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AstralJavaThere was just talk on #ubuntu-motu, that hinted towards not being over yet. Not sure, though.07:20
Lathiatim pretty sure it runs til at least friday07:21
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HiddenWolfCan someone help me figure out why ubuntu initialises my headset before it does my audigy card, and what is wrong, so I can file a bug?08:00
LathiatHiddenWolf: what do you mean?08:00
Lathiatyou mean it plays out your headset instead of your audigy by default?08:01
HiddenWolfYes, exactly08:01
Lathiatright, how is your headset connected?08:01
HiddenWolfusb08:01
Lathiatthought so08:01
Lathiattheres probably already a bug about that, lemme look08:02
LathiatHiddenWolf: in some situations, its the preferred behavior08:02
Lathiatlike for example if i have alaptop and when im at hoe i plug in a usb sound card to my stereo08:02
Lathiati'd want that to play 08:02
Lathiatso really it needs to be configurable08:02
HiddenWolfWhen I first installed the system, I think jdub passed me a line that'd fix it. I've tried some things with the help of treenaks, but it'll still not listen08:02
HiddenWolfLathiat, I get it08:02
HiddenWolflathiat, do you happen to know of a way to force it to pick the audigy?08:04
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Lathiatyeh setup a asoundrc08:09
Lathiatnot sure on the details, google knows08:09
Lathiatmight be some easier way i dunno08:09
Lathiatanother way is if you bootup with the headset not plugged in, then plug it in08:09
Lathiatit will work08:10
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HiddenWolfwicked, at this reboot, it picked the audigy as default08:11
Lathiat02:09 < Lathiat> yeh setup a asoundrc08:12
Lathiat02:09 < Lathiat> not sure on the details, google knows08:12
Lathiat02:09 < Lathiat> might be some easier way i dunno08:12
Lathiat02:09 < Lathiat> another way is if you bootup with the headset not plugged in,08:12
Lathiat                 then plug it in08:12
Lathiat02:09 < Lathiat> it will work08:12
HiddenWolflathiat, sorry about that, I'm fighting with grub08:12
Lathiat:)08:13
HiddenWolf've got a /dev/sda, and a /dev/hda, and want to add a boot option to /dev/hda for winxp, grub won't take it08:13
Lathiatwhats in /boot/grub/device.map ?08:14
HiddenWolf(hd0)   /dev/sda08:15
HiddenWolfI can add a hd1 there, then?08:15
Lathiatumm08:15
Lathiatre-run grub-install08:15
Lathiatonly way i now to regenerate it08:15
HiddenWolfheh, manually adding it would've had the same result. :)08:17
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LathiatHiddenWolf: well you can never be sure :)08:17
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HiddenWolfLooking at asoundrc now, looks difficult08:18
Lathiatnah just gotta find the right example i think08:18
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HiddenWolfIt's weird that it chooses a different default over reboots08:20
LathiatHiddenWolf: it switches?08:20
HiddenWolfNow I've got nice 5.1 surround. when I was talking to you earlier, it came out of my headset08:20
Lathiatmaybe sometimes it pics up the usb device later or something08:20
Lathiatif the usb device isnt plugged in when you boot itl goto the first 08:20
HiddenWolfIt was plugged in, :) 08:21
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HiddenWolfThanks, brb08:22
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astharotciao08:23
astharotwhen will be the next Community Council?08:23
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HiddenWolfran grub-install and update grub, now I get a 'filesystem unknown' error when trying to boot /dev/hda08:30
Lathiatuh08:31
Lathiatwhat doe syour grub section look like to boot windows08:31
HiddenWolf### END DEBIAN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST08:31
HiddenWolf## Windows XP08:31
HiddenWolftitleWindows XP Professional08:31
HiddenWolfroot(hd1,0)08:31
HiddenWolfmakeactive08:31
HiddenWolfchainloader+108:31
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Lathiattry using tab copletion on boot08:32
Lathiatgo into command line mode08:32
Lathiatgo root (hd1,<tab>08:32
Lathiatshould tell you what partitions it can see of what type and stuff08:32
HiddenWolftab completion on boot08:33
HiddenWolf?08:33
HiddenWolfpress tab in the menu?08:33
HiddenWolfnm08:33
HiddenWolfdidn't get enough sleep, thanks08:33
Lathiat:)08:34
HiddenWolfIt should be /dev/hda1 tho, because I just managed to mount it as such08:34
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HiddenWolfThanks, but I should get out of here before touchy dev spanks me for going OT08:35
HiddenWolf:)08:35
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tarzeauhow to get software into ubuntu ?09:09
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Burgundaviatarzeau, what kind of software?09:15
tarzeauBurgundavia: free software, a game particularly www.linuks.mine.nu/debian/supertransball2/09:16
BurgundaviaI see you are talking in #ubuntu-motu09:16
Burgundaviathat is the correct place to do this sort of thing09:16
tarzeauBurgundavia: ok i will talk over there then, thanks09:17
tarzeauthis stuff here is for what's shipped on cd and universe is only available by internet, is that right?09:17
Burgundaviathis is for ubuntu devel in general09:18
Burgundaviamostly on main09:18
Burgundaviamotu is for universe and multiverse09:18
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HiddenWolfGrub is bugging me to madness :S10:18
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Simiragood morning Sydney!10:40
Simirahas my favourite Sydney-attendee gotten online yet?10:41
HiddenWolfIs anyone here good with grub, I'm totally out classed10:42
uniqdepends on your problem...10:43
HiddenWolfI had a single disk system, with ubuntu on it. that was fine10:46
HiddenWolf/dev/sda (hd0,0)10:46
HiddenWolfNow I added an old harddisk for the occational windows boot10:46
HiddenWolf/dev/hda10:46
HiddenWolfLogic demands it's (hd1,0)10:47
HiddenWolfBooting to it gives me "unknown filesystem"10:47
HiddenWolfbooting to windows on hd0,0 gives me "unsupported something" error10:47
HiddenWolfI ran grub-reinstall, and my device map now reads hd0 -> hda, hd1 -> sda10:48
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HiddenWolfStill booting happily to my sda disk using hd0,0 tho10:48
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HiddenWolfupdate-grub doesn't do a thing.10:48
HiddenWolfgrub> root (hd0,0)10:54
HiddenWolf Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0x710:54
HiddenWolfgrub> root (hd1,0)10:54
HiddenWolf Filesystem type is ext2fs, partition type 0x8310:54
HiddenWolfgrub>10:54
blueyed# and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5).11:02
blueyed# The loopback network interface11:02
blueyedauto lo11:02
blueyediface lo inet loopback11:02
blueyed# This is a list of hotpluggable network interfaces.11:02
blueyed# They will be activated automatically by the hotplug subsystem.11:02
blueyedmapping hotplug11:02
blueyed        script grep11:02
blueyed        map eth011:02
blueyedauto dsl-provider11:02
blueyediface dsl-provider inet ppp11:02
blueyed     provider dsl-provider11:02
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blueyedsry11:06
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Baby(11:10
HiddenWolfanyone here proficient on the topic of grub?11:11
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Simirahmm11:39
Simiratime to get up now, isn't it?11:39
Simirametallikop: you're down under, right? Is Tollef up yet?11:39
tsengSimira: no to both11:40
tsengat least he hasnt been downstairs yet11:40
Simirahm... he went to bed early. I hope he's not gotten worse11:41
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