[12:01] <tfheen> done
[12:02] <Netsnipe> tfheen: thanks
[12:02] <Netsnipe> tfheen: i see you're in .au now
[12:02] <tfheen> yeah
[12:02] <tfheen> UDU
[12:02] <Netsnipe> tfheen: ?
[12:02] <tfheen> Ubuntu Down Under, the development conference in Sydney this week
[12:02] <Netsnipe> ah
[12:06] <mdke> Netsnipe, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HardwareSupport might help, if you haven't already seen it
[12:13] <Netsnipe> mdke: ta
[12:43] <tseng> good morning sydney
[12:44] <Simira> good morning tseng and Sydney
[12:45] <tseng> hi Simira 
[01:05] <thechitowncubs> Since you guys are the developers 
[01:05] <thechitowncubs> I'd thought I'd ask a quick question... is it possible to rebuild the previews for the themes in the themes preferences dialog (my previews aren't showing up anymore)
[01:08] <dholbach> hey
[01:18] <jsgotangco> hola
[01:27] <hypatia> tseng: You about?
[01:28] <thechitowncubs> Hey
[01:28] <hypatia> tseng: I seem to have somehow ended up as a lead on http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/IntroDeveloperDocs with you as second??
[01:28] <hypatia> Especially since I'm not there today ;)
[01:29] <thechitowncubs> just curious, how did you guys get into linux at first?
[01:29] <louie> jdub: ?
[01:31] <tseng> hypatia: hi.
[01:31] <tseng> hypatia: the managers added you as first, i added as second, as i prposed it
[01:31] <hypatia> Right.
[01:31] <hypatia> That's a bit odd, because I'm not a sponsered attendee.
[01:31] <tseng> are you present?
[01:31] <hypatia> No.
[01:32] <tseng> alright.
[01:32] <hypatia> tseng: I'm still happy to help out and even to work on the spec.
[01:32] <hypatia> But lead might be expecting a bit much :)
[01:32] <tseng> hypatia: sure. ill replace you on the bof
[01:32] <hypatia> tseng: spiv was the one who pointed it out to me.
[01:32] <hypatia> tseng: he said he's talk to the managers.
[01:32] <tseng> i havent seen it scheduled yet anyway
[01:33] <hypatia> It's on today's schedule at 10:45.
[01:34] <hypatia> tseng: Well, fill me in on how the BoF goes and on what work is needed. I can meet you on Saturday if that helps.
[01:34] <jdub> hypatia: nicw blog entry
[01:34] <tseng> hypatia: sure.
[01:35] <hypatia> jdub: really? I thought you'd think it was a bit negative.
[01:35] <hypatia> I shouldn't do thinking for other people.
[01:35] <tseng> hypatia: ill try and find another second just for management sake
[01:35] <hypatia> tseng: sure, thanks.
[01:36] <louie> blah
[01:37] <tseng> hypatia: whiprush and jerome are going to attend.
[01:37] <hypatia> tseng: cool.
[01:37] <jdub> hypatia: it's accurate.
[01:37] <hypatia> it does sound like a project I'd be interested in working on.
[01:37] <jdub> hypatia: and a lot of people agree with you.
[01:37] <hypatia> it was just a surprise to see me volunteered for it.
[01:37] <tseng> jdub: put mary back on planet!
[01:38] <hypatia> tseng: if involved people have time on Saturday we can talk about it.
[01:38] <hypatia> tseng: I'm not a member yet. I'll put myself up at the next CC meeting with the specific aim of being re-planeted.
[01:38] <tseng> ok great.
[01:38] <tseng> hypatia: :D
[01:41] <Amaranth> grr, where the heck is mono?
[01:41] <Amaranth> it got accepted and built successfully last night
[01:41] <Amaranth> when do the mirrors sync?
[01:42] <hypatia> tseng: looking forward to it. Yay docs.
[01:42] <jsgotangco> hypatia, you rock
[01:43] <hypatia> thanks :)
[01:43] <hypatia> looking forward to chatting to you Saturday as well.
[01:43] <jsgotangco> No problem
[01:43] <jsgotangco> im going up
[02:03] <Unfrgiven> tseng: i'll be interested in the IntroDeveloperDocs BOF as well (I'm Ankur, the guy who was there for the Mono Bof with u and ajmitch). i'm hoping to come to the IntroDeveloperDoc Bof but the technician to repair my laptop is due this morning, so it depends on that.
[02:08] <hypatia> tseng, Unfrgiven: latest word from spiv is that they'll try to reschedule to Saturday anyway, so that I can be there.
[02:09] <hypatia> but who knows really, the scheduling must be evil incarnate by now.
[02:16] <Unfrgiven> hypatia: :)
[02:26] <tseng> hypatia: great thanks
[02:33] <tseng> spiv: so, is the bof this session moved?
[02:34] <spiv> tseng: JaneW/cvd said it would be, but they were swamped by tshirts, so probably best to get them to confirm.
[02:35] <tseng> spiv: ok.
[02:35] <tseng> she just walked out
[02:35] <tseng> win
[02:43] <Unfrgiven> tseng: my laptop repair guy is here so im not going to be able to make this bof if its scheduled now.. ill definately be there if its some other time.
[02:47] <hypatia> Unfrgiven: well, if it's now I won't be there either!
[02:47] <Unfrgiven> hypatia: yeah good point
[03:08] <jsgotangco> its rescheduled for saturday accdg to tseng 
[03:08] <hypatia> Sounds good.
[03:23] <tfheen> fabbione: ping?
[03:25] <tfheen> fabbione: we have a writeup in twenty minutes; I'm in sublime 2 so if you'd just come here when you're free
[03:27] <thom> tfheen/fabbione: i dumped the notes from the bof yesterday into the wiki, ping if there are questions...
[03:28] <tfheen> thom: yay; you're welcome to come join us if you'd like. :)
[03:29] <tfheen> (and I think fabbione is not on IRC atm , since his client is just his danish one so if somebody sees him, it would be nice if you could relay from me)
[03:30] <dilinger> he was just at the kernel bof
[03:30] <dilinger> but he ran off to write up stuff
[03:30] <tfheen> ok, he'll run past here, then
[03:31] <dilinger> and he's back
[03:31] <tfheen> care to ask him to come to sublime 2 when he's ready for the xen writeup?
[03:32] <fabbione> tfheen: i am here in global...
[03:32] <fabbione> did thombot add his notes to the wiki?
[03:32] <tfheen> fabbione: 03:27 < thom> tfheen/fabbione: i dumped the notes from the bof yesterday into the wiki, ping if there are questions...
[03:32] <fabbione> roger
[03:32] <fabbione> tfheen: i am on the way up
[03:32] <tfheen> fabbione: yay
[03:33] <tfheen> ooh, cutting and pasting with irssi and pterm outside screen actually work correctly without munging the lines.  YAY!
[03:43] <thom> cc: um, how are you guys providing feedback? FasterBoot just reappeared in my queue and i have no lcue why or what i should do? :-)
[03:46] <cc> thom: i dont know actually; simon seemed to have pushed it back to you. now, do you need another BOF?
[03:46] <mpt> thom: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/FasterBoot?action=info
[03:47] <cc> thom: if no, remove UduBof, and change to EditedSpecification. i've given you permission (i read it and fleshed it out last night anyways)
[03:50] <thom> cc: ok, right. will do (we're not planning on having another bof)
[03:51] <thom> cc: thanks
[03:51] <cc> thom: ok, so, i hope to see it as EditedSpecification
[04:09] <dholbach> doko: nice to have you around
[04:22] <fabbione> mjg59: ping?
[04:22] <fabbione> pitti: ping?
[04:29] <dholbach> pitti: fabbione pinged you 7 minutes ago
[04:31] <dholbach> jdub: can you mail me or upload our UbuntuAndUpstreams stuff?
[04:32] <fabbione> we are in the same room :)
[04:32] <dholbach> fabbione: i don't really want to know what you guys are doing ;-p
[04:33] <fabbione> dholbach: pitti is yelling to push more....
[04:33] <zul> lalala...i didnt hear that
[04:34] <dholbach> fabbione: i know... he always did it when he was in our room
[04:36] <zul> *sigh* wont someone please think of the children
[04:36] <mjg59> thom: gpe-bluetooth has a moderate number of gpe library references, but they're almost entirely:
[04:36] <mjg59> a) in the OBEX vcard parsing
[04:36] <mjg59> b) system tray stuff
[04:36] <mjg59> c) icon stuff
[04:36] <mjg59> So that's easy enough to deal with
[04:37] <thom> hrm, that should be easy enough to rip out
[04:37] <cc> i should've brought the iPaq. gpe-bluetooth is on it :P
[04:37] <mjg59> cc: Yeah, we've been playing with mine
[04:37] <tfheen> jbailey: hmm; wrt initramfs, you're going to upload crackoftheday stuff post-UDU, I guess.
[04:38] <pitti> dholbach: fabbione just talked to me
[04:42] <tfheen> we should have jabber notifications or something as the proposals flow through
[04:42] <cc> tfheen: xen is a go after simon looks at it
[04:43] <tfheen> cc: I just noticed.
[04:43] <fabbione> mjg59: do we have any more session on livecdperformance?
[04:43] <fabbione> mjg59: otherwise we should review the specs you wrote down adn send them to cc
[04:43] <tfheen> cc: the process then is he puts it back in my queue, I put it in MattZimmermanQueue?
[04:44] <cc> tfheen: no, you go and move it to EditedSpec queue (physically, you move the post-it note), and then someone (mdz/mark) looks at it and approves it
[04:45] <tfheen> cc: is this documented somewhere? :)
[04:45] <cc> tfheen: no, it was said during monday's welcoming; i reckon it probably deserves a wiki page; will get to it when i get a free moment, okay?
[04:45] <tfheen> cc: I can give it a shot and you can correct me?
[04:46] <tfheen> it should probably be the specspec page, actually. :P
[04:46] <cc> tfheen: sure, have fun :P
[04:48] <jbailey> tfheen: Sure.  I don't imagine that elmo
[04:48] <jbailey> tfheen: 's processing NEW right at the moment. =)
[04:50] <tfheen> jbailey: he's such a lazy bum. ;P
[04:51] <jsgotangco> jdub, GO UP NOW FOR LiveCD training BOF
[04:53] <jsgotangco> mako, ping
[05:01] <fabbione> pitti: i think i found the command to reset the alsa layer via esd without killing the server
[05:01] <fabbione> pitti: do you still have the test setup?
[05:05] <fabbione> pitti: nevermind that symbol is not exported via libasound
[05:06] <mako> jsgotangco: hola
[05:07] <mako> amu, Riddell: around?
[05:07] <mako> is there a place i can poinit people who want to contribute kubuntu artwork?
[05:08] <ogra> mako, Riddell has set up a MOTUKDE team wiki page....i guess that would be that place
[05:09] <tfheen> cc: uhm, Xen now includes editedspec as well as draftspec, that's broken, right?
[05:09] <cc> tfheen: definintely; why is that so? i remember deleting draftspec and only having editedspec
[05:10] <tfheen> cc: no idea
[05:10] <cc> tfheen: oh, i didn't delete it; i let simon vet it once, and he didn't delete it
[05:11] <cc> tfheen: he should fix it now. i just larted him
[05:11] <tfheen> cc: ah, ok.  Thanks
[05:12] <mako> ogra: for artwork?
[05:12] <tfheen> cc: you have SpecProcess in your queue now.
[05:12] <cc> tfheen: hah. nice.
[05:13] <tfheen> it's written according to how I've understood the process, so on items where it's inaccurate, it might be good to note that specifically as I'm probably not the only one to have misunderstood.
[05:17] <cc> tfheen: you're Lead :)
[05:18] <tfheen> cc: uhm, ok.  If you say so.
[05:18] <tfheen> cc: just edit it appropriately and I'll go move my Xen post-it note.
[05:20] <dilinger> heh, that's what this conference needs.  kool-aid
[05:21] <dilinger> named after tools, of course. so, we can drink the baz or launchpad koolaid
[05:22] <dholbach> Unfrgiven: are you there?
[05:22] <amu> mako: yep
[05:23] <dholbach> Unfrgiven: does 15:30 at "forum" sound fine to you?
[05:25] <mako> amu: Riddell gave me the answer
[05:26] <cc> tfheen: get janew to take a pass thru, and i think tomorrow everyone gets to read that :)
[05:27] <fabbione> mjg59: dude?
[05:28] <tfheen> cc: yay, cool.
[05:29] <tfheen> cc: it should explain what NewSpec means
[05:31] <tfheen> cc: and it says '"CCQ or SSQ" (yes, both of them.)' which doesn't make sense.
[06:05] <Unfrgiven> dholback: yes ill be there
[06:06] <Unfrgiven> anyone know which room dholback is right now?
[06:18] <tseng> Unfrgiven: lunch.
[06:19] <tseng> Unfrgiven: he should be back in gloabal soon.
[06:19] <tseng> Unfrgiven: im in global now if you want something MOTU.
[06:22] <tfheen> cc: you saw my comments?
[06:22] <cc> tfheen: i just got back from lunch man! but yeah i'll be looking at 'em soon. its not highpriority at the moment. i have some launchpad stuff on my plate
[06:23] <tfheen> cc: ack, just checking since I was offline for lunch so I wouldn't have seen any comments from you on it
[06:23] <tseng> i just had some food on my plate
[06:23] <tseng> it was nice.
[06:24] <mpt> Kamion: ping
[06:28] <|QuaD-> tseng: i saw the beginings of mono 1.1.6 in breezy, congrats
[06:30] <Unfrgiven> tseng: ill come to global and see him shortly.
[06:30] <Unfrgiven> tseng: thanks anyways
[06:32] <tfheen> buntu starting in global now
[06:34] <tseng> |QuaD-: its hardly ready.
[06:34] <pitti> elmo: here? are you interested in AutomatedTesting BoF? (sublime 2)
[06:38] <cc> daf: ping
[06:38] <sladen> cc: he /was/ sitting next to me, just left
[06:41] <mpt> cc: He's in the Forum
[06:42] <cc> mpt: ok, i just need him to clarify something about his countryspecificlangs
[06:45] <elmo> pitti: yes, but I'm alos interested in cluster fses :(
[07:01] <Kamion> mpt: pong
[07:02] <mpt> Kamion: I see you're on InstallerSimpleResize ... I have some UI mockups I did for resizing partitions in 2002, would they be useful for you at all?
[07:02] <Kamion> mpt: I don't think the UI is the problem
[07:03] <Kamion> mpt: simpleresize shouldn't even HAVE a UI, it should just do it :)
[07:03] <Kamion> apart from maybe a progress bar
[07:03] <Kamion> simpleresize is a "make space for Ubuntu, somehow" option - there's not a lot of user interaction there
[07:03] <mpt> Kamion: So you shouldn't be able to decide, for example, how much of the space left over is available for each OS?
[07:03] <Kamion> nope
[07:03] <Kamion> it's simple
[07:03] <Kamion> in every sense of that word
[07:04] <mpt> ok
[07:04] <Kamion> the BOF will be about how to make that not suck ... :)
[07:06] <Kamion> mpt: (although I guess I can imagine a percentage slider or something - that's hard to do in debconf though, so we *might* be better avoiding it)
[07:06] <mpt> Yeah, my mockup has sliders :-)
[07:07] <Kamion> mpt: if you want to link to your mockups on the wiki page, that could be useful
[07:07] <mpt> Ok, they're not online anywhere
[07:07] <Kamion> suppose I could implement a slider custom widget
[07:07] <mpt> I'll make a separate page for them
[07:07] <Kamion> ok, thanks
[07:12] <|QuaD-> i have a question, what are the disadvantages of installers like mepis's (from the liveCD)
[07:13] <Kamion> |QuaD-: it's important for us only to have to fix bugs in one place; therefore integration is a very high priority
[07:13] <Kamion> this isn't something that people who only have a live CD installer (and not a regular one) have to think about
[07:14] <tfheen> Kamion: where are you ATM?
[07:14] <Kamion> tfheen: global
[07:14] <tfheen> oh, there you are
[07:15] <|QuaD-> Kamion: right, which is why i am wondering what the disadvantages are, why more distributions aren't going to it
[07:24] <Unfrgiven> anyone know the whereabouts of dholbach atm?
[07:26] <tseng> he is coming!
[07:27] <tseng> forum.
[07:28] <Kamion> |QuaD-: I just told you :-)
[07:28] <mpt> Kamion: ok, page now linked to from InstallerSimpleResize
[07:28] <Kamion> |QuaD-: most distributions already have an installer, and maintaining more than one set of installer code really sucks, so nobody wants to do it
[07:28] <|QuaD-> Kamion: but why not ditch the installer
[07:29] <fabbione> jdub: ?
[07:29] <Kamion> because it has a lot of development effort put into it, and a lot of bug fixes
[07:29] <Kamion> you cannot just "ditch the installer"
[07:29] <fabbione> jdub: the wiki just trashed all your changes to ClusterFileSystem
[07:29] <Kamion> not if you're sensible
[07:29] <fabbione> have a nice day, kthxbye
[07:29] <|QuaD-> Kamion: but you would be creating a more optimal environment
[07:30] <Kamion> we will instead be writing a live CD installer that is tightly integrated with our existing installer
[07:30] <|QuaD-> isn't it easier to maintain just alivecd/installer combo than 2 seperate?
[07:30] <Kamion> we still need a normal installer
[07:30] <|QuaD-> Kamion: ok
[07:30] <Kamion> people installing a bank of servers will not be interested in something that only supports installation from live CD
[07:31] <Kamion> and they will go and use something else
[07:31] <Kamion> mpt: thanks, looks interesting
[07:31] <|QuaD-> Kamion: ok, that makes sense
[07:34] <Kamion> mpt: that mockup is kind of interesting when it comes to languages that have more plural forms than just "singular" and "plural", though ;)
[07:35] <mpt> Kamion: True, that hadn't occurred to me three years ago :-)
[07:37] <thom> mjg59: dude, you're supposed to be in forum for HWDBRoadmap
[08:05] <dilinger> sladen: ping
[08:48] <fabbione> cc: ping?
[08:49] <fabbione> cc: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/ClusterFilesystems <- up for your review
[08:51] <cc> fabbione: rock; will do it soonish
[09:03] <lifeless> grumpy is for ricers .... gentoo on speed
[09:08] <ctd> make hotplug loadfast kthnxbai
[09:28] <fabbione> mjg59: are you coming down for the BOF?
[09:32] <fabbione> did anybody see mjg59 around?
[09:32] <mjg59> fabbione: Yo
[09:32] <mjg59> fabbione: I'm in VibeOut - do you want me to come down there?
[09:33] <mjg59> thom: You'll be pleased to hear that you're on LaptopHardwareSupport
[09:34] <fabbione> mjg59: if you can come down it will be better..
[09:34] <mjg59> fabbione: Ok, I'll come down now
[09:34] <fabbione> mjg59: i am having problems to unplug my laptop atm
[09:34] <fabbione> thanks
[09:36] <fabbione> cc: did you process Xen and ClusterFileSystem?
[09:38] <cc> fabbione: Xen i think i did (its already EditedSpecification); ClusterFileSystem no, i just had a whole stream of visitors, its on the todo list
[09:38] <fabbione> cc: ok thanks
[09:38] <tfheen> fabbione: I've pushed Xen fairly hard, iirc
[09:39] <fabbione> tfheen: yes.. i just couldnt find on the wall of {sh,f}ame
[09:39] <tfheen> it should be under EditedSpec there, iirc
[09:40] <fabbione> yeps
[09:41] <lunitik> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10208
[09:41] <lunitik> pretty please fix?  :(((
[09:41] <sladen> dilinger: pong
[09:42] <tseng> lunitik: dont use breezy if you arent ready for broken shit
[09:42] <lunitik> Its like a 10 second job + upload  :'(
[09:42] <ctd> tseng: I came to breezy for things to break.
[09:42] <tseng> we are a) very busy, b) have no bandwidth
[09:42] <lunitik> tseng: I'm ready for broken packages... but I mean, such a simple mistake?
[09:42] <tseng> its not a "mistake" on our part
[09:42] <tseng> its from debian
[09:43] <ctd> tseng: Things are so boring without updates every day.
[09:43] <tseng> most of us arent even using breezy
[09:43] <lunitik> tseng: indeed... but surely a main component that hasn't had its depends modified is an Ubuntu mistake?
[09:43] <tseng> most of the changes are from MOM
[09:43] <tseng> its not depends
[09:43] <tseng> there is eds and eds1.2
[09:43] <tseng> eds1.2 is wrong
[09:43] <sladen> dilinger: I've added some more to the BootLogd page but it still needs testing what TIOCCONS is actually doing and what happens is the app dies (boom goes the logs?)
[09:43] <tseng> it needs blacklisted
[09:44] <dilinger> sladen: oh, i actually figured it out
[09:44] <dilinger> sladen: the kernel has a variable 'redirect'
[09:44] <dilinger> tioccons(file) simply takes the fd and sets redirect to it
[09:44] <lunitik> tseng: no really... if you change the 0 to a 3 in the depends list, issue is fixed  :/
[09:44] <dilinger> if fd is 0, reset redirect to 0
[09:45] <dilinger> when writing to console, if redirect != 0, write to the fd/filp
[09:45] <dilinger> so, just a simple redirect
[09:46] <dilinger> so bootlogd opens the pty slave/master, resets any current redirects w/ TIOCCONS, sets the console to write to the slave pty w/ TIOCCONS
[09:46] <mvirkkil> How can I tokenize text using a delimiter if the text is utf8? Ie. are there any 'safe' bytes that couldn't exits in a utf8 character?
[09:46] <thom> mjg59: i'm on what?
[09:47] <tfheen> mvirkkil: nullbytes, I think
[09:47] <mjg59> thom: LaptopHardwareSupport
[09:47] <thom> *sob*
[09:47] <dilinger> it then selects against the pty master, reads any output and stores in a ring buffer.  spit everything out directly to /dev/tty1 (which is why it needs to find it; TIOCCONS intercepts console messages, writing to the tty directly skips console)
[09:47] <dilinger> also tries to open /var/log/boot
[09:48] <dilinger> if it can open it, empty ring buffer to file
[09:48] <mvirkkil> tfheen: Yeah, but not going to work in this case. I'm currently using the \t character, but I suppose a utf8 character could contain that byte as one of its bytes?
[09:49] <mvirkkil> tfheen: And are you should there  couldn't be one byte in a utf character of 4 bytes that is 0. 
[09:50] <mvirkkil> I guess I need to read up on unicode.
[09:51] <dilinger> sladen: so, if the app dies, it's up to the kernel to figure out that the pts is no longer valid, and to stop redirecting
[09:51] <dilinger> sladen: if it doesn't do that, it's a kernel bug
[09:52] <lunitik> tseng: bah... it is -3 ... sorry, I was wrong... just, rather annoying currently... I usually have no issue with bugs, went through menu and metacity bugs during hoary, but apt errors annoy me slightly more... I'll shut up though :(
[09:53] <dilinger> sladen: so, given this information...
[09:56] <sladen> dilinger: I think it might be a fire-and-forget command?
[09:58] <dilinger> yea
[09:58] <dilinger> if it's not, i'll submit a patch to fix the callback
[10:00] <thom> mjg59: i take it thats part of laptopmission?
[10:02] <dilinger> sladen: if it looks good, i'll pass it off to colin
[10:03] <sladen> mvirkkil: 0xfe and 0xff are guaranteed not to exist in an UTF-8 stream
[10:04] <mvirkkil> sladen: I'm thinking about the way the commands should be sent to the fifo. 
[10:04] <sladen> mvirkkil: everything else is a legal character but if you want to search for a space then you just have to search for 0x20 since any character below 128 is the same as ASCII/ISO8859-1
[10:05] <mvirkkil> sladen: So I could just use a tab character as a delim, since it will not exist in any utf character?
[10:06] <GheRivero> res
[10:06] <mvirkkil> sladen: What format are you using to communicate between the frontend and the "backend"
[10:07] <sladen> mvirkkil: you'll only find it in a tab character---this is the becauty of UTF-8, all multi-byte characters will have the top-bit set
[10:07] <mvirkkil> ?
[10:07] <mvirkkil> sladen: Yes, I seem to remember something like that :-)
[10:07] <mvirkkil> sladen: But only once you said it..
[10:08] <mvirkkil> sladen: What kind of a protocl are you planning to use for communications through the socket/fifo?
[10:08] <sladen> mvirkkil: if you need it, http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/unicode.html#utf-8
[10:08] <sladen> mvirkkil: communication for what?
[10:08] <mvirkkil> sladen: Ie, how do you separate between commands, their args etc?
[10:09] <mvirkkil> sladen: Like settign the progressbar to a certain value.
[10:09] <mvirkkil> sladen: Or showing the text.
[10:09] <mvirkkil> sladen: In the USPlash context.
[10:10] <mvirkkil> sladen: Wasn't the idea that commands would be sent through the socket?
[10:10] <fabbione> cc: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDPerformance is in your queue too :)
[10:10] <cc> fabbione: yes, that i just noticed. joy joy, it just grows
[10:12] <sladen> mvirkkil: the v1 stuff at http://www.paul.sladen.org/projects/usplash/download/ uses a text string with space separated arguments, but the interface is private between usquirt and usplashd
[10:12] <daniels> sladen: we don't actually need another bof for usplash, do we?
[10:13] <daniels> mjg59: ping
[10:13] <mjg59> Hi
[10:13] <daniels> mjg59: vibe the fuck out
[10:13] <mvirkkil> sladen: If you use space as a delim, how are you going to handle the case of free format text to be displayed. Basically if it was a rpc the following case: setpprogresstext(int time, char* text)
[10:14] <mjg59> Yeah, be there in a minute
[10:14] <daniels> word
[10:15] <sladen> daniels: probably not.  I added shed load to the spec, can you have a quick oogle
[10:16] <daniels> sure
[10:16] <mvirkkil> sladen: Are you going to use a tempfs or a fifo?
[10:17] <tseng> daniels: represent.
[10:17] <daniels> tseng: good times
[10:18] <tseng>  /topic 
[10:18] <tseng> < daniels> mjg59: vibe the fuck out 
[10:18] <sladen> mvirkkil: I have code to use a fifo on a tempfs
[10:18] <sladen> mvirkkil: so probably eeasiest to stick with that
[10:19] <mvirkkil> sladen: Why on tempfs?
[10:19] <sladen> mvirkkil: can't write to a pipe on a read-only fs
[10:20] <mvirkkil> sladen: Hmm.. Are you sure?
[10:22] <Kamion> I don't know if he's sure, but he's right; try it
[10:23] <Kamion> cjwatson@cairhien:~$ sudo mount -t tmpfs tmpfs /mnt
[10:23] <Kamion> cjwatson@cairhien:~$ sudo mkfifo /mnt/foo
[10:23] <Kamion> cjwatson@cairhien:~$ sudo mount -o remount,ro /mnt
[10:23] <Kamion> cjwatson@cairhien:~$ echo hello > /mnt/foo
[10:23] <Kamion> -bash: /mnt/foo: Permission denied
[10:23] <mvirkkil> Kamion: krap.
[10:23] <mvirkkil> I was sure I've used it on a flash readonly disk.
[10:24] <mvirkkil> I stand corrected.
[10:27] <mvirkkil> Kamion: Hey. you can.
[10:27] <mvirkkil> Kamion: UIt's just that sudo echo crap > /ment/foo
[10:27] <mvirkkil> is wrong
[10:28] <dilinger> sladen: so i'm going to assume that's an 'it looks ok'
[10:28] <mvirkkil> Kamion: The pipe goes past the sudo
[10:28] <elmo> kamion: next time you see keybuk,  beat him
[10:28] <mvirkkil> Kamion: If you do that as root , it will work
[10:29] <mvirkkil> sladen: --^
[10:30] <tfheen> Kamion: you're not here.
[10:30] <sladen> Kamion/mvirkkil: interesting, I just tried the same test and managed to disprove myself that it /did/ work...  I'm confused
[10:30] <mvirkkil> sladen: I'
[10:31] <mvirkkil> sladen: I've used it before. And according to the documentation it should wiork.
[10:31] <tfheen> Kamion: where "here" is sublime2
[10:31] <sladen> $ touch hello ; echo hello > pipe  & cat pipe 
[10:31] <sladen> touch: creating `hello': Read-only file system
[10:31] <sladen> hello
[10:31] <mvirkkil> sladen: There was a kernel bug in some 2.4 where it even modified the access times of the file, even though you didn't have permisions for it.
[10:32] <sladen> mvirkkil: this is 2.4 I'm testing on since the wifi still doesn't work un Ubuntu
[10:34] <mvirkkil> mvirkkil@hylje:~/blotch$ sudo mount -t tmpfs tmpfs /mnt
[10:34] <mvirkkil> mvirkkil@hylje:~/blotch$ sudo mkfifo /mnt/foo
[10:34] <mvirkkil> mvirkkil@hylje:~/blotch$ sudo mount -o remount,ro /mnt
[10:34] <mvirkkil> mvirkkil@hylje:~/blotch$ sudo su -c 'echo hello > /mnt/foo'
[10:34] <mvirkkil> Tand then when you cat /mnt/foo from another terminal, it will read the pipe, and the last command above will return.
[10:35] <mvirkkil> sladen: It should work on 2.4
[10:36] <mvirkkil> sladen: The kernel bug was about not checking for privs and has been fixed.
[10:36] <mvirkkil> or not repecting them when it came to writing access times
[10:37] <tfheen> anybody seen Kamion in the last twenty minutes?
[10:37] <Lathiat> tfheen: behind you!
[10:37] <mvirkkil> 11:23:11< Kamion> -bash: /mnt/foo: Permission denied
[10:37] <tfheen> Lathiat: not really, given that I'm watching the only door to this room
[10:38] <Lathiat> tfheen: maybe he has a cloak!
[10:38] <mvirkkil> sladen: Did you get it to work?
[10:38] <tfheen> blah, I'll just walk around randomly, then.
[10:38] <tfheen> Kamion: if you're around, please find me.
[10:52] <mjg59> It works for me
[10:58] <mjg59> http://www.enlightenment.org/data/images/upload/efl.png - CRACK
[10:58] <Lathiat> haha
[11:00] <daniels> embryo, euphoria, entice, emotion
[11:00] <daniels> the only thing he's missing is eugenia
[11:00] <Micksa> placenta
[11:01] <daniels> Micksa: see mjg59's image
[11:01] <sladen> mvirkkil: sadly.  This is unfortunately one more barrier to me actually having to write some more code
[11:02] <Lathiat> Micksa: http://www.enlightenment.org/data/images/upload/efl.png
[11:04] <Micksa> okay
[11:04] <Micksa> so my dumb joke holds :)
[11:04] <daniels> not really, since enlightenment didn't start with a p, last I checked
[11:05] <Treenaks> Lathiat: Dependancy Hell!
[11:05] <Micksa> neither does...
[11:05] <Micksa> oh never mind
[11:05] <mvirkkil> sladen: What are you referring to=?
[11:05] <thom> CDBS INIT
[11:05] <mvirkkil> sladen: How about just using tab as a delimiter?
[11:05] <thom> THE FUTURE IS HERE
[11:05] <Treenaks> thom: ?
[11:05] <dilinger> make -f /usr/share/cdbs/3/cdbs-init.mk init3
[11:11] <cc> no daf. how odd. 
[11:11] <Zomb> jeez, what's next? init3 start2 aleve42 kicstart50 not-yet go?
[11:16] <dilinger> Zomb: yea, thom and infinity didn't seem to like the idea much.  it's ok, though; i'll show 'em all..
[11:24] <jordi> dilinger: 3?
[11:25] <jordi> We were waiting for 2!
[11:25] <dilinger> well yea, 3 adds support for init and booting :)
[11:26] <Amaranth> Turns way too long rules files for Python projects into 5 lines if I use all the features. :)
[11:30] <tseng> Amaranth: do you know how to do a rule for setup.py?
[11:31] <tseng> Amaranth: i was trying to teach packaging today, dudes wanted to do python crack.
[11:31] <mvirkkil> I have a very simple version of something resembling USplash using a fifo for commands and libogl for drawing. The code is > 200 lines.
[11:32] <mvirkkil> Crap. I mean < 200
[11:32] <tfheen> > 200 lines doesn't say much. :P
[11:32] <tseng> 2 million, dude.
[11:32] <tfheen> tseng: that's not too bad if they're all blank.
[11:32] <Kamion> mvirkkil: mm, yeah, I was being thick
[11:33] <mvirkkil> Kamion: No worries. I was just really surprised at first. 
[11:33] <tfheen> anybody seen Scott around lately?
[11:34] <Amaranth> tseng: A rule?
[11:34] <Amaranth> tseng: Explain what you mean.
[11:34] <tseng> yes
[11:34] <tseng> debian/rules using cdbs
[11:34] <tseng> but a simple python package with setup.py
[11:35] <tseng> as an example for newbies
[11:35] <Amaranth> Well, http://www.python.org/doc/current/dist/ is a good start. :)
[11:35] <Amaranth> http://www.python.org/doc/current/dist/simple-example.html
[11:36] <Amaranth> I don't understand what you want.
[11:36] <Amaranth> A real world example?
[11:36] <tseng> debian/rules, dude
[11:36] <Amaranth> Oh.
[11:36] <tseng> nm
[11:37] <Amaranth> http://dev.realistanew.com/rules
[11:37] <Amaranth> err, that actually has a bug
[11:37] <Amaranth> fixed
[11:37] <tseng> hell yeah
[11:38] <tseng> thats love, thanks
[11:39] <Amaranth> Have you seen https://wiki.duckcorp.org/DebianPackagingTutorial/CDBS ?
[11:39] <tseng> yes
[11:39] <Amaranth> My rules is just a copy+paste from there plus the manpage line.
[11:41] <tseng> ive been too busy today to look it up, as its for someone else
[11:41] <Amaranth> ah
[11:41] <Amaranth> If it gets me more crack in Ubuntu I'm happy to help. ;)
[02:56] <SlackShrike> hi
[02:58] <SlackShrike> i have a computer with a DVD+RW , CD-RW/DVD and 2 HD in RAID0 and the ubuntu-live don't boot. What i do ? Thanks!
[02:59] <dholbach> hey mxpxpod 
[02:59] <Lathiat> SlackShrike: Please take user questions to #ubuntu, this channel is for discussion about the the development of ubuntu.
[03:00] <mxpxpod> hey dholbach 
[03:00] <SlackShrike> OK
[03:00] <SlackShrike> thanks
[03:02] <SlackShrike> Lathiat: excuse.  the caps Lock was on.
[03:02] <Lathiat> no problems
[03:03] <SlackShrike> about the development of ubuntu: When i find the process build of ubuntu ?
[03:04] <Treenaks> SlackShrike: process build?
[03:04] <Treenaks> build daemon?
[03:04] <Treenaks> build process?
[03:05] <SlackShrike> build the ubuntu
[03:05] <Treenaks> one package? the entire distribution?
[03:05] <SlackShrike> how to make the ubuntu !
[03:05] <Treenaks> CD images?
[03:05] <SlackShrike> too
[03:06] <Treenaks> maybe #ubuntu-br can help you better
[03:06] <sivang> Hey Treenaks , 'sup ?
[03:27] <Taliesin`> ho my gawd, my mirror is listed on the ubuntu mirror's page :P
[03:29] <Burgundavia> trying to avoid that traffic thing?
[03:34] <Taliesin`> nah
[03:34] <Taliesin`> just didnt take people long to relise
[03:34] <Taliesin`> and or add it to the list :)
[03:43] <trulux> heya folks
[03:46] <zul> hey trulux
[03:46] <trulux> hey zul 
[03:49] <trulux> zul: how was the SELinux BOF?
[03:49] <zul> trulux: im not sure since im not at udu
[03:50] <trulux> zul: Oh, I see, I'll ask pitti, mako or someone else :)
[03:51] <zul> good idea :)
[03:51] <trulux> mako: among the Amaya issue, how's going UDU? :D
[03:53] <tseng> trulux: theres an amaya issue?
[03:54] <trulux> tseng: I need to meet her for key signing
[03:55] <Unfrgiven> tseng: hey
[03:55] <tseng> hey.
[03:55] <Unfrgiven> i needed some help with gpg keys... im having trouble sending the key to a keyserver.
[03:55] <tseng> gpg --send-key ID
[03:55] <Treenaks> Unfrgiven: gpg --send-key yourkeyid
[03:55] <tseng> where id is the second part
[03:55] <tseng> after 1024D/
[03:56] <Unfrgiven> the id... is that my email address?
[03:56] <tseng> its what i just said.
[03:56] <Treenaks> email works too
[03:56] <trulux> Unfrgiven: yes
[03:56] <Unfrgiven> ah right. ill give that a shot.
[03:56] <Unfrgiven> trulux: e-mail aint working :(
[03:56] <trulux> Unfrgiven: then just use the key ID
[03:56] <Unfrgiven> whats a good server to send it to?
[03:57] <trulux> UbuntuGet: MIT?
[03:57] <Unfrgiven> oh wait if i dont specify one, its going to "subkeys.pgp.net"
[03:57] <trulux> UbuntuGet: the pgp.net one?
[03:57] <trulux> Unfrgiven: no problemo :)
[03:57] <Unfrgiven> trulux: thanks :)
[04:03] <Unfrgiven> i need to get my gpg key signed. can you help me with this tseng?
[04:03] <tseng> yes Unfrgiven, tommorow
[04:03] <tseng> we need to do it in person.
[04:03] <Unfrgiven> tseng: ok sure thing. since my laptop is still dead, what will you need to sign it? ill put it somewhere public.
[04:04] <tseng> i need the output of
[04:04] <tseng> gpg --fingerprint Your_ID
[04:04] <Treenaks> Unfrgiven: you'll need to print (preferably) gpg --fingerprint
[04:04] <tseng> and bring a govt photo id
[04:04] <Unfrgiven> tseng: australian drivers license ok?
[04:04] <tseng> Unfrgiven: yes.
[04:04] <Taliesin`> lol
[04:05] <Taliesin`> more aussie's
[04:05] <Taliesin`> loving it :D
[04:05] <Taliesin`> Is ubuntu mainly driven by aussie's or something, lol
[04:05] <tseng> we are all sitting in australia atm
[04:05] <Unfrgiven> tseng: great, thanks for that. ill definately see you tomorrow. for now ill fiddle with some packaging
[04:05] <Taliesin`> :>
[04:05] <tseng> so alot of locals are geting involved
[04:05] <Taliesin`> <- Adelaide over here :)
[04:06] <Unfrgiven> Taliesin`: its even better when you live right across the road from UDU :)
[04:06] <Taliesin`> UDU ?
[04:06] <Taliesin`> elaborate please :P
[04:06] <dholbach> Ubuntu Down Under
[04:06] <Unfrgiven> ubuntu down under
[04:06] <Taliesin`> oh
[04:06] <Unfrgiven> hey dholbach 
[04:06] <dholbach> ;-)
[04:06] <Taliesin`> is that something you guys are doing right now over in the eastern states?
[04:06] <tseng> uber dholbach underoos
[04:06] <Unfrgiven> looks like everyone is still up :)
[04:06] <dholbach> underoos? :-)
[04:07] <Taliesin`> 25th to 30th eh?
[04:08] <Unfrgiven> indeed
[04:09] <Taliesin`> bugger
[04:09] <Taliesin`> wish i knew, would of taken holidays :D
[04:09] <Unfrgiven> Taliesin`: you could come on friday night and attend on saturday if you wanted
[04:10] <Taliesin`> nah, unfortunatly bills this week
[04:10] <Taliesin`> leaving me broke :>
[04:10] <tseng> its free!
[04:10] <tseng> as in beer
[04:10] <Taliesin`> maybe i could cover it under a company.. training...
[04:10] <tseng> and as in mako in a skirt
[04:10] <tseng> very very free.
[04:11] <Taliesin`> lmao, no broke as plane ticket
[04:11] <Taliesin`> to get their
[04:11] <Taliesin`> besides, no one would let this PFY on a plane with his laptop :)
[04:11] <tseng> pfy?
[04:11] <Taliesin`> i gather you dont read BOFH :P
[04:11] <Taliesin`> Pimply Faced Youth
[04:12] <Unfrgiven> tseng: lol :)
[04:12] <Taliesin`> their a policy at our company
[04:12] <Taliesin`> all staff must read BOFH ;)
[04:13] <tseng> thats productive.
[04:13] <Taliesin`> For sure :D
[04:13] <Taliesin`> helps us free space on our web servers :P
[04:13] <Taliesin`> jk
[04:52] <Unfrgiven> is it better to build a package with "debuild -S" or "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot"?
[04:52] <Unfrgiven> is there any difference?
[05:00] <dholbach> good night!
[05:26] <toresbe> How does the process of getting a package (already in Debian) into Ubuntu? (specifically, stopmotion, an, er, stopmotion animation thing :P
[05:26] <toresbe> ) go?
[05:27] <Lathiat> toresbe: see the MOTU teem
[05:28] <sladen> win 88
[05:28] <toresbe> Lathiat: okay, I see
[05:28] <toresbe> sladen: 88?! you have issues.
[05:28] <toresbe> I'm up to 40
[05:57] <zul> anyone see this? http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8253
[06:01] <Lathiat> looks favourable
[06:04] <AstralJava> Uhh.. nice writing.
[06:04] <AstralJava> But then, I've always liked that magazine.
[07:17] <zyga> hello
[07:18] <zyga> is UDU over yet?
[07:20] <AstralJava> There was just talk on #ubuntu-motu, that hinted towards not being over yet. Not sure, though.
[07:21] <Lathiat> im pretty sure it runs til at least friday
[08:00] <HiddenWolf> Can someone help me figure out why ubuntu initialises my headset before it does my audigy card, and what is wrong, so I can file a bug?
[08:00] <Lathiat> HiddenWolf: what do you mean?
[08:01] <Lathiat> you mean it plays out your headset instead of your audigy by default?
[08:01] <HiddenWolf> Yes, exactly
[08:01] <Lathiat> right, how is your headset connected?
[08:01] <HiddenWolf> usb
[08:01] <Lathiat> thought so
[08:02] <Lathiat> theres probably already a bug about that, lemme look
[08:02] <Lathiat> HiddenWolf: in some situations, its the preferred behavior
[08:02] <Lathiat> like for example if i have alaptop and when im at hoe i plug in a usb sound card to my stereo
[08:02] <Lathiat> i'd want that to play 
[08:02] <Lathiat> so really it needs to be configurable
[08:02] <HiddenWolf> When I first installed the system, I think jdub passed me a line that'd fix it. I've tried some things with the help of treenaks, but it'll still not listen
[08:02] <HiddenWolf> Lathiat, I get it
[08:04] <HiddenWolf> lathiat, do you happen to know of a way to force it to pick the audigy?
[08:09] <Lathiat> yeh setup a asoundrc
[08:09] <Lathiat> not sure on the details, google knows
[08:09] <Lathiat> might be some easier way i dunno
[08:09] <Lathiat> another way is if you bootup with the headset not plugged in, then plug it in
[08:10] <Lathiat> it will work
[08:11] <HiddenWolf> wicked, at this reboot, it picked the audigy as default
[08:12] <Lathiat> 02:09 < Lathiat> yeh setup a asoundrc
[08:12] <Lathiat> 02:09 < Lathiat> not sure on the details, google knows
[08:12] <Lathiat> 02:09 < Lathiat> might be some easier way i dunno
[08:12] <Lathiat> 02:09 < Lathiat> another way is if you bootup with the headset not plugged in,
[08:12] <Lathiat>                  then plug it in
[08:12] <Lathiat> 02:09 < Lathiat> it will work
[08:12] <HiddenWolf> lathiat, sorry about that, I'm fighting with grub
[08:13] <Lathiat> :)
[08:13] <HiddenWolf> 've got a /dev/sda, and a /dev/hda, and want to add a boot option to /dev/hda for winxp, grub won't take it
[08:14] <Lathiat> whats in /boot/grub/device.map ?
[08:15] <HiddenWolf> (hd0)   /dev/sda
[08:15] <HiddenWolf> I can add a hd1 there, then?
[08:15] <Lathiat> umm
[08:15] <Lathiat> re-run grub-install
[08:15] <Lathiat> only way i now to regenerate it
[08:17] <HiddenWolf> heh, manually adding it would've had the same result. :)
[08:17] <Lathiat> HiddenWolf: well you can never be sure :)
[08:18] <HiddenWolf> Looking at asoundrc now, looks difficult
[08:18] <Lathiat> nah just gotta find the right example i think
[08:20] <HiddenWolf> It's weird that it chooses a different default over reboots
[08:20] <Lathiat> HiddenWolf: it switches?
[08:20] <HiddenWolf> Now I've got nice 5.1 surround. when I was talking to you earlier, it came out of my headset
[08:20] <Lathiat> maybe sometimes it pics up the usb device later or something
[08:20] <Lathiat> if the usb device isnt plugged in when you boot itl goto the first 
[08:21] <HiddenWolf> It was plugged in, :) 
[08:22] <HiddenWolf> Thanks, brb
[08:23] <astharot> ciao
[08:23] <astharot> when will be the next Community Council?
[08:30] <HiddenWolf> ran grub-install and update grub, now I get a 'filesystem unknown' error when trying to boot /dev/hda
[08:31] <Lathiat> uh
[08:31] <Lathiat> what doe syour grub section look like to boot windows
[08:31] <HiddenWolf> ### END DEBIAN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST
[08:31] <HiddenWolf> ## Windows XP
[08:31] <HiddenWolf> title		Windows XP Professional
[08:31] <HiddenWolf> root		(hd1,0)
[08:31] <HiddenWolf> makeactive
[08:31] <HiddenWolf> chainloader	+1
[08:32] <Lathiat> try using tab copletion on boot
[08:32] <Lathiat> go into command line mode
[08:32] <Lathiat> go root (hd1,<tab>
[08:32] <Lathiat> should tell you what partitions it can see of what type and stuff
[08:33] <HiddenWolf> tab completion on boot
[08:33] <HiddenWolf> ?
[08:33] <HiddenWolf> press tab in the menu?
[08:33] <HiddenWolf> nm
[08:33] <HiddenWolf> didn't get enough sleep, thanks
[08:34] <Lathiat> :)
[08:34] <HiddenWolf> It should be /dev/hda1 tho, because I just managed to mount it as such
[08:35] <HiddenWolf> Thanks, but I should get out of here before touchy dev spanks me for going OT
[08:35] <HiddenWolf> :)
[09:09] <tarzeau> how to get software into ubuntu ?
[09:15] <Burgundavia> tarzeau, what kind of software?
[09:16] <tarzeau> Burgundavia: free software, a game particularly www.linuks.mine.nu/debian/supertransball2/
[09:16] <Burgundavia> I see you are talking in #ubuntu-motu
[09:16] <Burgundavia> that is the correct place to do this sort of thing
[09:17] <tarzeau> Burgundavia: ok i will talk over there then, thanks
[09:17] <tarzeau> this stuff here is for what's shipped on cd and universe is only available by internet, is that right?
[09:18] <Burgundavia> this is for ubuntu devel in general
[09:18] <Burgundavia> mostly on main
[09:18] <Burgundavia> motu is for universe and multiverse
[10:18] <HiddenWolf> Grub is bugging me to madness :S
[10:40] <Simira> good morning Sydney!
[10:41] <Simira> has my favourite Sydney-attendee gotten online yet?
[10:42] <HiddenWolf> Is anyone here good with grub, I'm totally out classed
[10:43] <uniq> depends on your problem...
[10:46] <HiddenWolf> I had a single disk system, with ubuntu on it. that was fine
[10:46] <HiddenWolf> /dev/sda (hd0,0)
[10:46] <HiddenWolf> Now I added an old harddisk for the occational windows boot
[10:46] <HiddenWolf> /dev/hda
[10:47] <HiddenWolf> Logic demands it's (hd1,0)
[10:47] <HiddenWolf> Booting to it gives me "unknown filesystem"
[10:47] <HiddenWolf> booting to windows on hd0,0 gives me "unsupported something" error
[10:48] <HiddenWolf> I ran grub-reinstall, and my device map now reads hd0 -> hda, hd1 -> sda
[10:48] <HiddenWolf> Still booting happily to my sda disk using hd0,0 tho
[10:48] <HiddenWolf> update-grub doesn't do a thing.
[10:54] <HiddenWolf> grub> root (hd0,0)
[10:54] <HiddenWolf>  Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0x7
[10:54] <HiddenWolf> grub> root (hd1,0)
[10:54] <HiddenWolf>  Filesystem type is ext2fs, partition type 0x83
[10:54] <HiddenWolf> grub>
[11:02] <blueyed> # and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5).
[11:02] <blueyed> # The loopback network interface
[11:02] <blueyed> auto lo
[11:02] <blueyed> iface lo inet loopback
[11:02] <blueyed> # This is a list of hotpluggable network interfaces.
[11:02] <blueyed> # They will be activated automatically by the hotplug subsystem.
[11:02] <blueyed> mapping hotplug
[11:02] <blueyed>         script grep
[11:02] <blueyed>         map eth0
[11:02] <blueyed> auto dsl-provider
[11:02] <blueyed> iface dsl-provider inet ppp
[11:02] <blueyed>      provider dsl-provider
[11:06] <blueyed> sry
[11:10] <Baby> (
[11:11] <HiddenWolf> anyone here proficient on the topic of grub?
[11:39] <Simira> hmm
[11:39] <Simira> time to get up now, isn't it?
[11:39] <Simira> metallikop: you're down under, right? Is Tollef up yet?
[11:40] <tseng> Simira: no to both
[11:40] <tseng> at least he hasnt been downstairs yet
[11:41] <Simira> hm... he went to bed early. I hope he's not gotten worse