| mdke | good night all | 12:10 |
|---|---|---|
| sm | night mdke | 12:11 |
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| Kinnison | Morning | 01:13 |
| jsgotangco | morning | 01:18 |
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| jsgotangco | does anyone know in our current svn if we have an absolute beginners guide | 02:26 |
| solomarv | hey, guys, is there any work being done on gnome help to bring it up to date with hoary? like removing the note about "applications:///"? it does not work in hoary, but is still mentioned in gnome help | 02:44 |
| hypatia | I haven't heard of any efforts to make the GNOME documentation match Ubuntu. | 03:10 |
| hypatia | Which isn't to say that it's a bad idea. | 03:10 |
| hypatia | On the contrary, sounds like a good idea to me. | 03:10 |
| hypatia | Probably you would need to submit patches to whoever is maintaining that package for main. | 03:10 |
| solomarv | hypatia, thanks | 03:53 |
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| jsgotangco | jeffsch, hey | 09:06 |
| jeffsch | howdy | 09:07 |
| jsgotangco | in a BOF | 09:08 |
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| froud-work | Burgundavia: spoke to Thomas at TSF | 11:53 |
| froud-work | Burgundavia: he is leaving TSF and at present they will not be bringing volunteers | 11:53 |
| Burgundavia | ah | 11:54 |
| Burgundavia | thanks | 11:54 |
| froud-work | no problem | 11:54 |
| froud-work | Burgundavia: did you manage to add that install stuff to the installation guide? | 11:55 |
| froud-work | can you patch and I will apply it for you? | 11:56 |
| Burgundavia | still about half done | 11:59 |
| Burgundavia | been working on my talk recently | 11:59 |
| froud-work | OK, no worries | 11:59 |
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| jsgotangco | Burgyyy | 01:46 |
| Burgundavia | salut | 01:46 |
| Burgundavia | how is UDU? | 01:46 |
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| jsgotangco | bloody shitty wifi | 02:00 |
| jsgotangco | Burgundavia, UDU is great but the food service kinda sucks | 02:00 |
| Burgundavia | Mataro was bloody awful | 02:01 |
| Burgundavia | the food that is | 02:01 |
| Burgundavia | otherwise it was great | 02:01 |
| Burgundavia | sabdfl called them "bags of death" | 02:01 |
| jsgotangco | d00d mataro was like 2 weeks | 02:01 |
| Burgundavia | indeed | 02:02 |
| Burgundavia | one more week of bad food | 02:02 |
| Burgundavia | it was great when they tried to serve the kosher guy ham | 02:02 |
| jsgotangco | noooo they assigned me a BOF | 02:08 |
| Burgundavia | which one? | 02:08 |
| jsgotangco | heck what else doc stuff | 02:08 |
| jsgotangco | system documentation | 02:08 |
| jsgotangco | duh | 02:08 |
| Burgundavia | jsgotangco, when you go to the Ubuntu at conferences page, please mention my brochure, and keeping any of this stuff within the docteam repos | 02:10 |
| jsgotangco | what brochure? | 02:11 |
| Burgundavia | I am working on a brochure | 02:11 |
| Burgundavia | one page | 02:11 |
| jsgotangco | we talked about that with mako and jdub | 02:11 |
| jsgotangco | ok wilco | 02:11 |
| jsgotangco | yeah we need flyers | 02:11 |
| Burgundavia | I was going to have it done by this weekend | 02:11 |
| jsgotangco | ok great i'll put it in the wiki then | 02:12 |
| Burgundavia | but I am dropping it as we don't have a table at the conference for this | 02:12 |
| jsgotangco | hmm we have a wiki page for that already | 02:12 |
| Burgundavia | this already happened? http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/AbsoluteBeginnerCommunity | 02:13 |
| jsgotangco | http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuAtConferences | 02:13 |
| jsgotangco | yeah | 02:13 |
| jsgotangco | i was there as well | 02:13 |
| Burgundavia | can we get some feedback from you regarding what happened? | 02:13 |
| === Burgundavia is very frustrated that he is not there | ||
| jsgotangco | what happened? its in the wiki its already in draft | 02:14 |
| jsgotangco | awww Burgy we also have brown ubuntu shirts to | 02:14 |
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| Burgundavia | gahhh | 02:15 |
| Burgundavia | don't frustrate me further | 02:15 |
| jsgotangco | we had this global BOF about WhatWindowsUsersWant | 02:15 |
| jsgotangco | this guy named Tim was aussie and he attended | 02:15 |
| jsgotangco | sabdfl made it to a lightning bof | 02:15 |
| Burgundavia | cool | 02:16 |
| Burgundavia | what was said? | 02:16 |
| jsgotangco | well its mostly in the old wiki and stuff | 02:16 |
| jsgotangco | let me get that | 02:16 |
| jsgotangco | mdke, should be familiar with it | 02:16 |
| jsgotangco | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/WhatWindowsUsersWant | 02:16 |
| jsgotangco | im beginning to miss good stuff on the wiki | 02:18 |
| jsgotangco | well its a rarity anyways | 02:18 |
| jsgotangco | hypatia dropped by today | 02:20 |
| Burgundavia | it is thurs there, no? | 02:20 |
| jsgotangco | its only wednesday 10:24pm | 02:20 |
| Burgundavia | ah | 02:20 |
| jsgotangco | they're still making the sched for tommorow | 02:20 |
| Burgundavia | where you here? http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/TranslationProcess | 02:20 |
| jsgotangco | no :) | 02:21 |
| jsgotangco | i meant :( | 02:21 |
| Burgundavia | damn | 02:21 |
| Burgundavia | you are the only member of the doc team there | 02:21 |
| Burgundavia | myself, froud,mdke and jeffsch are not there | 02:21 |
| jsgotangco | i know i know but i got to like go to other bofs that affect stuff | 02:21 |
| jsgotangco | they even had to resched one bof so that mary can attend because im stuffed already | 02:22 |
| jsgotangco | i barely get a break here | 02:22 |
| Burgundavia | don't worry, one person can only be in one place at atime | 02:22 |
| jsgotangco | i even got a pda bof doh | 02:24 |
| jsgotangco | doh and a notebook dialup bof | 02:25 |
| jsgotangco | grr i better go upstairs | 02:25 |
| jsgotangco | bye bye | 02:28 |
| Burgundavia | np | 02:29 |
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| jiyuu0 | hello all | 06:59 |
| jiyuu0 | now i've started workin on this | 06:59 |
| jiyuu0 | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=150088 | 06:59 |
| _froud_ | jiyuu0: it would have been nice if you had done this in svn | 07:07 |
| _froud_ | we could have easily packaged it as a deb | 07:08 |
| _froud_ | now we must update svn with your work. | 07:08 |
| _froud_ | this kind of headache is not for me. I am inclined to delete the copy of the guide now in SVN | 07:09 |
| _froud_ | and leave ubuntu guide to do its own thing | 07:09 |
| _froud_ | it seems that people working on this guide do not want to coperate with others in the docteam | 07:10 |
| _froud_ | which is a shame because a new version would have been good and could have gone into Rosetta for translation | 07:10 |
| jiyuu0 | i need some time / learn to do that | 07:11 |
| jiyuu0 | as the .html is already there... that's why i continue with it | 07:11 |
| _froud_ | sorry but this kind of thing pisses me off, especially when we tried to talk to the people on this guide | 07:11 |
| _froud_ | jiyuu0: we offered support | 07:11 |
| _froud_ | you never cam eback and asked for it\ | 07:11 |
| _froud_ | So was the XML | 07:11 |
| jiyuu0 | i just came back like 2 weeks to ubuntuguide | 07:11 |
| _froud_ | you could have with our support continued from there | 07:12 |
| jiyuu0 | and rushing like mad to update it | 07:12 |
| _froud_ | ruch like mad in svn | 07:12 |
| _froud_ | ruch | 07:12 |
| _froud_ | not out there | 07:12 |
| _froud_ | we put work into porting your work | 07:12 |
| _froud_ | and made several attempts to speak with you on this | 07:12 |
| _froud_ | you just went ahead | 07:12 |
| _froud_ | not cool IMHO | 07:13 |
| _froud_ | The XML has been there for weeks | 07:13 |
| jiyuu0 | sorry... my fault | 07:13 |
| _froud_ | who is now gonna merge the updates there into svn | 07:13 |
| jiyuu0 | i'm thinkin to do it | 07:14 |
| jiyuu0 | once i'm done with this version | 07:14 |
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| _froud_ | sorry dude I dont believe you will want to do it all over again | 07:14 |
| _froud_ | some people were kean to help you on this project | 07:14 |
| _froud_ | I dunno if you will still have their support | 07:15 |
| _froud_ | we got crital feedback about the guide in our meeting | 07:15 |
| jiyuu0 | which version | 07:15 |
| _froud_ | very valuable input form people doing support on #ubuntu | 07:15 |
| jiyuu0 | the initial release? | 07:15 |
| _froud_ | I cant see that any of that inout has gone into the new version | 07:16 |
| jiyuu0 | regarding? | 07:16 |
| _froud_ | Burgundavia: explain to the man please | 07:16 |
| jiyuu0 | i hardly check my ubuntu mail | 07:16 |
| jiyuu0 | too many spams | 07:16 |
| _froud_ | my patience is running out | 07:16 |
| jiyuu0 | and request for support | 07:16 |
| _froud_ | jiyuu0: get spam protection dude | 07:16 |
| _froud_ | jiyuu0: if you want o work as an Island tell us and we will leave you alone | 07:17 |
| _froud_ | I sent you mail, twice | 07:17 |
| _froud_ | you answered once | 07:17 |
| _froud_ | and then you disappeared | 07:17 |
| Burgundavia | hello | 07:17 |
| _froud_ | for all we know we are sending mail into e-heaven | 07:17 |
| Burgundavia | sorry, give me a sec to read the scrollback | 07:17 |
| _froud_ | Burgundavia: jiyuu0 has updated ubuntuguide | 07:18 |
| _froud_ | now we have svn and his version | 07:18 |
| Burgundavia | I see that | 07:18 |
| _froud_ | not coll | 07:18 |
| Burgundavia | I also see a licencing issue | 07:18 |
| _froud_ | coo; | 07:18 |
| _froud_ | none of the input we got is in there | 07:18 |
| jiyuu0 | what's the input | 07:18 |
| _froud_ | and we have two versions | 07:18 |
| jiyuu0 | let me check my mail | 07:18 |
| jiyuu0 | what's ur name in email? | 07:19 |
| Burgundavia | jiyuu0, I sent you something regarding your information on repos | 07:19 |
| _froud_ | jiyuu0: we aske dyou to join and speak to us so we can give you the inout | 07:19 |
| _froud_ | input | 07:19 |
| Burgundavia | jiyuu0, I am going to be very very frank right now. If I offend you, I am sorry | 07:19 |
| Burgundavia | your ideas are really really great | 07:19 |
| jiyuu0 | no offend | 07:20 |
| Burgundavia | but what you are advocating is really not best practice | 07:20 |
| jiyuu0 | repos thingi? | 07:20 |
| Burgundavia | there are lots of little things that need to be fixed in your guide | 07:20 |
| jiyuu0 | how do u suggest? | 07:20 |
| Burgundavia | unfortunately, your guide is essentially a closed source thing for us | 07:20 |
| _froud_ | jiyuu0: 1st work with the team not in your own island | 07:20 |
| Burgundavia | we cannot fix the problems in them | 07:20 |
| Burgundavia | now, currently our systems are not the best for the casual person, but you are not the casual person | 07:21 |
| Burgundavia | you also have mindshare, which I consider a bad thing, as I don't think your guide is actually something I can recommend to anyone | 07:21 |
| === _froud_ is now known as froud | ||
| Burgundavia | I don't want to work against you, but sometimes I find myself doing that on #ubuntu, as I really think that people need to get good advice, and sometimes your guide doesn't give it | 07:22 |
| Burgundavia | now, that being said, it is an amazing start | 07:22 |
| froud | Burgundavia: there were several cases where uses got into troubles using the guide, can you remember them | 07:22 |
| Burgundavia | the repos one | 07:22 |
| jiyuu0 | apt-get install mplayer-386 right? | 07:22 |
| jiyuu0 | what else? | 07:23 |
| jiyuu0 | i get this often back then | 07:23 |
| Burgundavia | I haven't really dug really deeply into the errors of the guide | 07:23 |
| froud | jiyuu0: do you want to work with the team and open source it, or do you want to keep it closed? | 07:23 |
| Burgundavia | also, gpl is not compatitible with gfdl and cc-by-sa, which we use | 07:23 |
| Burgundavia | and your warty guide is also licenced under | 07:24 |
| Burgundavia | thus you have, accidentally created an incompatitible fork | 07:24 |
| jiyuu0 | the license was suggested back then by mako | 07:24 |
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| Burgundavia | mako would have suggested one of our licences | 07:24 |
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| froud | yes, but things change and that is whty we ask you to communicate with us | 07:24 |
| jiyuu0 | Burgundavia, which license it is? | 07:25 |
| Burgundavia | yours is currently licenced gpl | 07:25 |
| jiyuu0 | so what u suggest to change? | 07:25 |
| Burgundavia | our docs are dual gfdl and cc-by-sa 2.0 | 07:25 |
| Burgundavia | your old warty doc is also licenced under this | 07:25 |
| froud | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamLicense | 07:25 |
| Burgundavia | I seem to remember that Plovs spoke with you regarding it | 07:25 |
| froud | sanction as official by mako | 07:25 |
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| Burgundavia | we had a discussion about licencing with mako in Mataro, and it also hit the lists | 07:26 |
| jiyuu0 | i can change the license.... not a big issue | 07:26 |
| Burgundavia | ok | 07:26 |
| froud | who will port it to svn db xml? | 07:26 |
| jiyuu0 | that one i can | 07:26 |
| jiyuu0 | but i need some time finish some work with ubuntuguide first | 07:26 |
| froud | are you now setup for it | 07:27 |
| jiyuu0 | and now worrkin on the add on CD | 07:27 |
| Burgundavia | however, no matter how good we make your docs we still have the split | 07:27 |
| froud | I think finsih the book in svn | 07:27 |
| froud | that way people can help | 07:27 |
| Burgundavia | thus my ideal plan would be to merge our eventual web portal into your ubuntuguide.org | 07:27 |
| froud | more people makes it easier for you | 07:27 |
| jiyuu0 | then i have to abandon ubuntuguide right? | 07:27 |
| jiyuu0 | where got time for both | 07:27 |
| froud | jiyuu0: not abandone | 07:28 |
| froud | just open it so others can help you | 07:28 |
| Burgundavia | jiyuu0, no, you don't have to abandon ubuntuguide | 07:28 |
| Burgundavia | far from it | 07:28 |
| froud | it will make life easier for you | 07:28 |
| Burgundavia | rather we would fold your url and project into ours | 07:28 |
| Burgundavia | as then you harness the power of OSS | 07:28 |
| froud | also we can make deb packages of the book | 07:29 |
| froud | and get it translated in rosetta | 07:29 |
| froud | this will help you with your live cd | 07:29 |
| froud | jiyuu0: are you setup to work with svn | 07:30 |
| jiyuu0 | i am agreeable wif this | 07:30 |
| jiyuu0 | but maybe gimme some extra time | 07:30 |
| jiyuu0 | to finish what's outstanding | 07:31 |
| Burgundavia | ok | 07:31 |
| froud | how much time | 07:31 |
| jiyuu0 | then we'll work on the portal | 07:31 |
| jiyuu0 | and the svn thingi | 07:31 |
| Burgundavia | our web portal isn't up yet | 07:31 |
| Burgundavia | we can finalize what is going to happen when it is up | 07:31 |
| jiyuu0 | ubuntuguide.org planned content is 80% there already | 07:31 |
| jiyuu0 | left email server | 07:31 |
| jiyuu0 | and now working on ubuntuguide.org CD | 07:31 |
| froud | jiyuu0: do you have a delta of the change you have made | 07:31 |
| jiyuu0 | which should finish in few days times | 07:31 |
| jiyuu0 | not really.... | 07:32 |
| froud | can you diff the changes so that we can see what needs updating in svn | 07:32 |
| Burgundavia | hmm | 07:32 |
| froud | that will cut the work | 07:32 |
| jiyuu0 | i move the topic up and down sometimes | 07:32 |
| Burgundavia | we can probably do one from the raw html | 07:32 |
| jiyuu0 | still organizing it | 07:32 |
| froud | Burgundavia: I dont have a backup of it | 07:32 |
| froud | do you | 07:32 |
| jiyuu0 | i think... later i'll learn the svn xml thingi... and i'll port it over | 07:32 |
| froud | jiyuu0: its many hours of work | 07:33 |
| Burgundavia | the warty html one is still up | 07:33 |
| froud | ittook plovs over three weeks | 07:33 |
| jiyuu0 | i can take that as reference | 07:33 |
| froud | Burgundavia: will you diff it | 07:33 |
| Burgundavia | sure | 07:33 |
| jiyuu0 | if my work is easy... i can work on it full time | 07:33 |
| Burgundavia | ok | 07:34 |
| froud | Burgundavia: I am not sure jiyuu0 fully understands the pwoer of what we are saying here | 07:34 |
| Burgundavia | ok | 07:34 |
| Burgundavia | for going forward | 07:34 |
| jiyuu0 | convert it to xml | 07:34 |
| jiyuu0 | the put in svn | 07:34 |
| froud | I would preffer to diff and add the stuff to svn asap | 07:34 |
| Burgundavia | short term: diff the new guide and update svn | 07:34 |
| jiyuu0 | and everyone can update right? | 07:34 |
| Burgundavia | 2: fix the ubuntuguide.org | 07:35 |
| jiyuu0 | would that make ubuntuguide.org into official? | 07:35 |
| froud | yes | 07:35 |
| froud | that was our intent | 07:35 |
| froud | we liked your work | 07:35 |
| Burgundavia | when the portal is up, we need to discuss a permanent url | 07:35 |
| froud | all of us | 07:35 |
| jiyuu0 | then i need to get diff hosting then | 07:35 |
| jiyuu0 | cause the current one is already bursting my bandwidth | 07:36 |
| froud | why | 07:36 |
| Burgundavia | we can make ubuntuguide.org a redir to a new url on the Ubuntu servers | 07:36 |
| froud | it will be at Canonical | 07:36 |
| Burgundavia | I happen to like help.ubuntu.com myself | 07:36 |
| froud | yep | 07:36 |
| Burgundavia | froud, can we hack lenya so we have simple urls: help.ubuntu.com/Sudo ? | 07:37 |
| froud | yes | 07:37 |
| Burgundavia | nice | 07:37 |
| Burgundavia | that is key | 07:37 |
| froud | jiyuu0: is it a train smash if we get you working in svn and doc book now | 07:37 |
| Burgundavia | jiyuu0, you have provided docs when we haven't been able to get them out to people easily. That is a service that is beyond helpful | 07:37 |
| froud | jiyuu0: I mean take current status | 07:38 |
| froud | Burgundavia: makes diff | 07:38 |
| Burgundavia | ok | 07:38 |
| froud | we add changes to svn | 07:38 |
| froud | we continue to finish it in svn | 07:38 |
| froud | then we transform to html and host at Canonical | 07:38 |
| jiyuu0 | why not let me wrap things up here | 07:39 |
| froud | how much time | 07:40 |
| jiyuu0 | and then i'll train smash on it | 07:40 |
| froud | 1 week 2 week | 07:40 |
| froud | a month | 07:40 |
| jiyuu0 | on the 8th next month was my target date to finish it | 07:40 |
| jiyuu0 | 1 month from day release | 07:40 |
| froud | 11 days | 07:40 |
| froud | ok | 07:40 |
| jiyuu0 | actually i just change the version from 0.x to 1.x today... which means... i'm nearly done wif it | 07:40 |
| jiyuu0 | then i'll start workin on the xml thingi | 07:41 |
| froud | jiyuu0: dont take down the old version | 07:41 |
| froud | jiyuu0: we first will diff it | 07:41 |
| froud | so we can see just your changes | 07:41 |
| jiyuu0 | 4.10??? | 07:41 |
| froud | yes | 07:41 |
| froud | leave it there | 07:41 |
| jiyuu0 | 4.10 not much changes | 07:41 |
| jiyuu0 | just took out bacport | 07:41 |
| jiyuu0 | and a spelling mistake | 07:41 |
| jiyuu0 | window which is suppose to be windows | 07:42 |
| Burgundavia | ick | 07:42 |
| froud | argh | 07:42 |
| Burgundavia | a raw diff is ick because so much stuff has moved around | 07:42 |
| jiyuu0 | but 5.04... lot's of changes | 07:42 |
| jiyuu0 | i'll work on 5.04 for the xml | 07:42 |
| froud | jiyuu0: we are trying to find a short path to porting your work into the current version in svn | 07:43 |
| froud | Burgundavia: can we make head or tails ofthe diff | 07:43 |
| Burgundavia | froud, not really | 07:43 |
| froud | ouch | 07:43 |
| Burgundavia | as the stuff has moved | 07:43 |
| froud | so we have to manually sift the two docs | 07:43 |
| Burgundavia | what comes out is a not a straight replacement for what comes in | 07:43 |
| Burgundavia | shouldn't actually be that bad | 07:44 |
| Burgundavia | I need to review the hoary guide anyway, so I can do both at the same time | 07:44 |
| froud | if we can see justthe changes | 07:44 |
| froud | itwill make life much easier | 07:44 |
| froud | Is it HTML 1.0 or XHTML3 | 07:44 |
| froud | opps | 07:45 |
| froud | XHTML | 07:45 |
| froud | <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd"> | 07:45 |
| froud | Ok it is strict | 07:45 |
| froud | that is a good thing | 07:45 |
| jiyuu0 | 5.04 not strict because of the paypal button | 07:46 |
| jiyuu0 | else should be strict | 07:46 |
| froud | Burgundavia: I may be able to convert to db | 07:46 |
| froud | but it will not be in qanda format | 07:46 |
| froud | we would need to hack it | 07:46 |
| froud | which route do you think is easier | 07:47 |
| froud | jiyuu0: paypal will not be an option once it is in svn | 07:47 |
| froud | jiyuu0: are you ok with this | 07:47 |
| froud | perhaps you are doing this to make some cash | 07:48 |
| jjesse | comming late to the discussion but why are we going to use this after i have had to help people out with problems due to the guide | 07:48 |
| jiyuu0 | not really | 07:48 |
| froud | jjesse: we use it and improve it | 07:48 |
| jiyuu0 | i put the paypal... just to see who will donate | 07:48 |
| jiyuu0 | for fun | 07:48 |
| froud | jiyuu0: ok just so long as we are clear | 07:48 |
| froud | jjesse: we know there are problems | 07:49 |
| jiyuu0 | jjesse, what's the prob | 07:49 |
| froud | jjesse: but we cant fix them as it stands now | 07:49 |
| jiyuu0 | when u all say there's prob... it's the repo thingi that broke with mplayer right? | 07:49 |
| jiyuu0 | what do u all suggest? | 07:49 |
| froud | jjesse: when in svn we can address them with jiyuu0 | 07:49 |
| froud | jjesse: do you still have a list of the problems | 07:50 |
| jjesse | ok good | 07:50 |
| jjesse | i am checking, phone just rang | 07:50 |
| froud | it should be in a log somewhere | 07:50 |
| froud | I need to check back to the metting before last | 07:50 |
| jjesse | there were some that was discussed on the mailing list | 07:50 |
| jiyuu0 | i need to know the prob... cause so far the prob i heard is mplayer | 07:50 |
| jiyuu0 | and it has been fixed in the guide | 07:50 |
| froud | yeah it is kinda spread | 07:51 |
| froud | jjesse: one of the problems was a usability issue to do with letting newbie users to do sensitive stuff | 07:51 |
| froud | jjesse: right? | 07:51 |
| jjesse | yes | 07:51 |
| jiyuu0 | e.g? | 07:52 |
| froud | this impacted on the whole doc | 07:52 |
| jjesse | i'm trying to dig through my notes, it wasn't on #ubuntu it was a friend doing it in person | 07:52 |
| jjesse | we ended up reinstalling ubuntu from the cd and set it up as i setup my local install of ubuntu | 07:52 |
| jiyuu0 | issit the sound prob? | 07:52 |
| froud | jiyuu0: its not one particular part orsection | 07:53 |
| jiyuu0 | that's weird... cause i've done and tested it many many times | 07:53 |
| froud | it was just that users got information that was technical | 07:53 |
| jiyuu0 | correct + updated many many times too | 07:53 |
| jiyuu0 | typos? | 07:53 |
| froud | well to technical for a newbie | 07:53 |
| froud | and many newbies ran into problems | 07:54 |
| froud | because they did not understand the big picture | 07:54 |
| jjesse | also he added a repository that messsed things up, but i don't remember if it was from the guide or not | 07:54 |
| froud | they did one thing as you said | 07:54 |
| jiyuu0 | i've tried my best to write it to the easiet method possible | 07:54 |
| froud | but they did not know to do another if they did so | 07:54 |
| froud | that kind of stuff | 07:54 |
| jiyuu0 | but i think now... it's pretty stable | 07:54 |
| jiyuu0 | i've updated a lot | 07:55 |
| froud | jiyuu0: its a usability issue, not a correctness issue | 07:55 |
| jiyuu0 | why not u guys check it out | 07:55 |
| jiyuu0 | ic | 07:55 |
| froud | jiyuu0: what will that help | 07:55 |
| froud | we cant change it :-) | 07:55 |
| froud | In svn the doc becomes a living object, as support has problems we can immediately fix and republish | 07:56 |
| froud | we can manage bug list against it | 07:56 |
| jiyuu0 | and everyone can change that? | 07:56 |
| froud | as people have time they can ackle the problems | 07:56 |
| froud | can change what | 07:56 |
| froud | the guide, how | 07:57 |
| froud | or the one in svn | 07:57 |
| froud | insvn all can change it | 07:57 |
| jjesse | docbook really isn't that hard to learn, i'm brand new to it and slowly learning it | 07:57 |
| froud | for example a support person would post a problem to the list and we woul djust fix it | 07:58 |
| froud | jjesse: jiyuu0 knows html there will not be a problem | 07:58 |
| froud | Burgundavia: shorter to diff and make sense, or just to transform to xml | 07:59 |
| froud | ? | 07:59 |
| Burgundavia | easier to parse manually and edit the xml from there | 08:00 |
| Burgundavia | kills 2 birds with one stone | 08:00 |
| froud | OK | 08:00 |
| froud | agree | 08:00 |
| Burgundavia | update our version and give feedback to jiyuu0 | 08:00 |
| froud | no no, get jiyuu0 inline to svn updates | 08:00 |
| froud | he can see the changes then | 08:00 |
| froud | as they happen | 08:00 |
| Burgundavia | ok | 08:01 |
| froud | jiyuu0: can you install subversion please | 08:01 |
| froud | sudo apt-get install subversion | 08:01 |
| jiyuu0 | i am rushing to finish up the add-on CD | 08:01 |
| froud | we want you to at least have a wc | 08:02 |
| jiyuu0 | can i do that once i'm done with the CD | 08:02 |
| jiyuu0 | ok | 08:02 |
| froud | so you can see what we are doing | 08:02 |
| jjesse | is the guide going to be on the cd? | 08:02 |
| froud | jjesse: why not | 08:02 |
| froud | we wante dit in hoary | 08:02 |
| jjesse | if the guide is so incorrect then why would we want to give it out to everyone? | 08:02 |
| froud | jjesse: we have to work on it for breezy :-) | 08:02 |
| jiyuu0 | jjesse, i'm makin a Unofficial UbuntuGuide 5.04 Add-On CD Guide | 08:03 |
| jjesse | ok | 08:03 |
| jiyuu0 | it will contain all the cache | 08:03 |
| jjesse | got a little lost in the converstion | 08:03 |
| jiyuu0 | and downloads | 08:03 |
| froud | jiyuu0: if you can do a checkout now, then we can start work on updating our copy in svn | 08:03 |
| froud | and you can see the changes | 08:03 |
| jiyuu0 | trying | 08:04 |
| froud | all you need to do to see the changes is subscribe to our commit list | 08:04 |
| froud | I have some time to help you get a checkout | 08:04 |
| froud | you want to do it now it takes a few minutes | 08:04 |
| jiyuu0 | installing | 08:05 |
| froud | we will also need you to send your pgp key to elmo sometime | 08:05 |
| froud | so you can get a commit account | 08:05 |
| jiyuu0 | that i've not tried b4 | 08:05 |
| froud | what pgp | 08:06 |
| froud | or commit | 08:06 |
| jiyuu0 | both... i've not tried b4 | 08:07 |
| froud | ok dont worry | 08:07 |
| jiyuu0 | ok... subversion installed | 08:07 |
| froud | lets take baby steps | 08:07 |
| froud | ok decide where you want your working copy | 08:07 |
| froud | what is the path? | 08:07 |
| jiyuu0 | $HOME | 08:08 |
| froud | ok | 08:08 |
| froud | now do the following commands | 08:08 |
| froud | svn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk ubuntu-docs | 08:08 |
| froud | it will create a folder in ~ called ubuntu-docs | 08:09 |
| froud | and you will see it adding a revision from HEAD to this folder | 08:09 |
| froud | this is your working copy | 08:09 |
| froud | dont worry you can break it all you like and you wont damage the repository | 08:09 |
| jiyuu0 | Error validating server certificate for 'https://docteam.ubuntu.com:443': | 08:09 |
| jiyuu0 | - The certificate is not issued by a trusted authority. Use the | 08:09 |
| jiyuu0 | fingerprint to validate the certificate manually! | 08:09 |
| jiyuu0 | Certificate information: | 08:09 |
| jiyuu0 | - Hostname: docteam.ubuntu.com | 08:09 |
| jiyuu0 | - Valid: from Feb 1 16:20:49 2005 GMT until Oct 28 16:20:49 2007 GMT | 08:09 |
| jiyuu0 | - Issuer: Canonical Ltd, Douglas, IM | 08:09 |
| jiyuu0 | - Fingerprint: c2:91:b6:41:c7:88:1a:82:bf:79:30:36:0b:7f:7f:81:c3:e8:04:8d | 08:10 |
| jiyuu0 | (R)eject, accept (t)emporarily or accept (p)ermanently? | 08:10 |
| froud | p | 08:10 |
| Burgundavia | jiyuu0, I am going to have a string of emails regarding things in the docs over the next few days | 08:10 |
| jiyuu0 | ok | 08:10 |
| Burgundavia | that is because Canonical needs to get a proper cert to sign stuff | 08:10 |
| froud | :-) | 08:10 |
| froud | just do p | 08:10 |
| jiyuu0 | did it | 08:10 |
| jiyuu0 | waiting | 08:10 |
| froud | jiyuu0: you are on the list right | 08:12 |
| froud | while you wait, please sibscribe to the commit list http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc-commits | 08:12 |
| froud | This list send you messages showing what has changed | 08:12 |
| jiyuu0 | ok | 08:13 |
| === jiyuu0 checkin | ||
| jiyuu0 | the "p" is still not moving | 08:13 |
| jiyuu0 | my line is bad | 08:13 |
| jiyuu0 | maybe | 08:13 |
| froud | did you press enter :-) | 08:13 |
| jiyuu0 | this page is also slow | 08:13 |
| jiyuu0 | http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc-commits | 08:13 |
| jiyuu0 | hehe... of course i did | 08:13 |
| jiyuu0 | :P | 08:13 |
| froud | Ok the first checkout is big | 08:13 |
| froud | after that it is better | 08:14 |
| jiyuu0 | ok | 08:14 |
| froud | because you only update the differences | 08:14 |
| froud | what line spead are you on? | 08:14 |
| froud | speed | 08:14 |
| jiyuu0 | i'm not sure... LAN | 08:15 |
| froud | Hmm at Uni | 08:15 |
| froud | or work | 08:15 |
| jiyuu0 | at home | 08:15 |
| jiyuu0 | it's my housemate's account | 08:15 |
| froud | DSL | 08:15 |
| jiyuu0 | yub | 08:16 |
| froud | or ppp | 08:16 |
| froud | DSL should be ok | 08:16 |
| jiyuu0 | subscribed | 08:16 |
| jiyuu0 | svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/repos/trunk' | 08:16 |
| jiyuu0 | svn: PROPFIND of '/repos/trunk': could not connect to server (https://docteam.ubuntu.com) | 08:16 |
| jiyuu0 | seems like have to try again | 08:16 |
| froud | timed out | 08:16 |
| froud | ping the server | 08:16 |
| froud | do you get a response | 08:17 |
| jiyuu0 | seems not | 08:17 |
| jiyuu0 | line seems bad today | 08:17 |
| jiyuu0 | browsing also slow | 08:18 |
| jiyuu0 | it's alive | 08:18 |
| froud | ok do svn checkout again | 08:19 |
| froud | any response? | 08:20 |
| jiyuu0 | it's downloading | 08:20 |
| froud | OK | 08:21 |
| froud | let it finish and I will take you through the basics you will need | 08:21 |
| froud | jiyuu0: the principle is simple. We all have a working copy, and hack that. | 08:22 |
| jiyuu0 | then how do i update it? | 08:22 |
| froud | When we finish hacking we commit the changes back to the repository | 08:22 |
| froud | hold | 08:22 |
| froud | everyone sees the patch by way of the commit list | 08:23 |
| froud | then all you do is form your ~ | 08:23 |
| froud | cd ubuntu-doc | 08:23 |
| froud | svn up | 08:23 |
| froud | that will bring all updates to your working copy | 08:23 |
| froud | now at first you dont have a commit account | 08:23 |
| froud | so you will have to create patches | 08:24 |
| froud | its easy | 08:24 |
| froud | you hack a file and save it | 08:24 |
| froud | then you do svn diff foofile.xml > foofile.xml.diff | 08:24 |
| froud | less foofile.xml.diff to see only the changes you have made | 08:25 |
| froud | send the file to the regular users mailing list | 08:25 |
| froud | one of the commit account holders will apply it to their own working copy | 08:25 |
| froud | and commit it to the repos | 08:26 |
| froud | when you have a commit account you will not need to make a diff | 08:26 |
| froud | no send itto the list | 08:26 |
| froud | you will just do svn commit | 08:26 |
| froud | and the diff will be written to the server | 08:26 |
| froud | each time you commit we will see it | 08:27 |
| froud | and we can do svn up | 08:27 |
| froud | and so the cycle goes on | 08:27 |
| froud | any questions? | 08:27 |
| === jiyuu0 copy and paste the hold advice... going to try it out later | ||
| === jiyuu0 still downloading........ | ||
| jiyuu0 | A ubuntu-docs/gnome/images/C/tetravex.png | 08:28 |
| jiyuu0 | ... | 08:28 |
| froud | jiyuu0: here is a step-by-step | 08:28 |
| froud | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamStepByStepRepository | 08:28 |
| froud | jiyuu0: yeah first checout is big | 08:29 |
| froud | jiyuu0: are you a gnome user or kde? | 08:30 |
| jiyuu0 | currently using gnome | 08:30 |
| froud | ok | 08:30 |
| jiyuu0 | haven really try kubuntu yet | 08:30 |
| jiyuu0 | using mepis for a while too | 08:30 |
| froud | so I would suggest for starters that you try looking at some of the xml files using gedit | 08:31 |
| jiyuu0 | ok | 08:31 |
| froud | you will also need to install a few tools | 08:31 |
| jiyuu0 | i'll pop questions if i bump into probs | 08:31 |
| froud | sudo apt-get install docbook | 08:31 |
| froud | sudo apt-get install docbook-xsl | 08:31 |
| froud | sudo apt-get install xsltproc | 08:32 |
| froud | sudo apt-get install xmllint (although that may be installed when you insall xsltproc) | 08:32 |
| froud | and and for i18n (optional) | 08:33 |
| froud | sudo apt-get install poxml (from kdesdk) | 08:33 |
| froud | that is it | 08:33 |
| froud | dont worry if you dont know what to do with the xml elements | 08:34 |
| froud | and for now ifyou dont get valid and well-formed docs | 08:34 |
| froud | we will fix these problems and you will soon get the hang of it | 08:34 |
| jiyuu0 | thanks :) | 08:35 |
| jiyuu0 | it's still downloading... | 08:35 |
| jiyuu0 | i have to crash... it's 2:35am already | 08:35 |
| jiyuu0 | else tomorrow i'll be late | 08:35 |
| froud | Ok let it run | 08:35 |
| froud | when you wake look in generic/faqguide/C | 08:35 |
| froud | ther eyou will find the ubuntuguide | 08:35 |
| jiyuu0 | ok | 08:36 |
| jiyuu0 | nite :) | 08:36 |
| froud | nite | 08:37 |
| froud | join us tomorrow for the next installment :-) | 08:38 |
| jjesse | if i made a couple of minor changes to the kquickguide, i need to diff it and send it to the list right? | 09:04 |
| Burgundavia | yep | 09:04 |
| froud | yes please:_) | 09:05 |
| jjesse | newbie question how do i make a diff? | 09:05 |
| froud | jjesse: when are you gonna send your pgp key to elmo | 09:05 |
| jjesse | froud as soon as i get one | 09:05 |
| === jeffsch is back (gone 11:29:53) | ||
| froud | jjesse: make the kquickguide dir your pwd | 09:05 |
| froud | svn diff kquickguide.xml > kquickguide.xml.diff | 09:06 |
| jjesse | how do i get one? | 09:06 |
| froud | attach the diff to a message and post to the user list | 09:08 |
| === froud [~froud@ndn-165-143-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| jjesse | pardon the ignorance where do i go to create my pgp key? | 09:10 |
| froud | Burgundavia: help jjesse create a pgp key please I have a deadline and am behind | 09:11 |
| froud | :-) | 09:11 |
| jjesse | grin sorry to be a pain | 09:11 |
| Burgundavia | ok | 09:11 |
| froud | no not a pain | 09:11 |
| Burgundavia | ugh | 09:11 |
| Burgundavia | have to do this myself | 09:11 |
| === Burgundavia is ignoring his presentation he has to do by Sat. | ||
| froud | He can send it to enrico who will forward it to elmo | 09:12 |
| froud | thanks | 09:12 |
| Burgundavia | ok | 09:12 |
| Burgundavia | jjesse, first start by installing gpg | 09:15 |
| jjesse | hmmm it is saying that gpg is not avaiable :( | 09:17 |
| Burgundavia | huh | 09:17 |
| jjesse | hmmm wait never mind i messed up | 09:17 |
| jjesse | ok installed | 09:17 |
| Burgundavia | bah | 09:18 |
| Burgundavia | is gnupg | 09:18 |
| Burgundavia | ok | 09:18 |
| Burgundavia | now open a terminal and key 'gpg --gen-key' | 09:18 |
| jjesse | ok what type? | 09:19 |
| Burgundavia | default | 09:19 |
| jjesse | DSA and ELGamal, DSA sign only or RSA sign only | 09:19 |
| jjesse | keysize? | 09:19 |
| Burgundavia | accept the default | 09:19 |
| jjesse | same for expire? | 09:19 |
| Burgundavia | accept the defaults | 09:19 |
| Burgundavia | they are good | 09:19 |
| jjesse | now i need a passphrase | 09:20 |
| jjesse | how long should it be ? | 09:20 |
| Burgundavia | something fairly long | 09:20 |
| Burgundavia | mine is a sentence with no spaces | 09:20 |
| Burgundavia | but also something you can remember | 09:20 |
| jjesse | ok done | 09:21 |
| froud | jjesse: applied, thanks | 09:21 |
| jjesse | your welcome froud | 09:21 |
| === claude [~claude@254.94.79.83.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| Burgundavia | two more things | 09:22 |
| Burgundavia | send the key to a keyserver | 09:22 |
| jjesse | ok is there a keyserver to use or? | 09:22 |
| Burgundavia | pretty much all the big ones share amongst themselves | 09:23 |
| Burgundavia | but the biggest is pgp.net | 09:23 |
| jjesse | ok | 09:24 |
| Burgundavia | so first is 'gpg --send-keys --keyserver wwwkeys.pgp.net your@email.address' | 09:25 |
| Burgundavia | bah | 09:25 |
| Burgundavia | just a sec | 09:25 |
| jjesse | holding | 09:26 |
| Burgundavia | ok | 09:28 |
| Burgundavia | www.keyserver.net | 09:28 |
| Burgundavia | not that pgp site | 09:28 |
| Burgundavia | but as a said, it will go around between the keyservers | 09:28 |
| jjesse | so do a gpg --send-keys --kyserver www.keyserv.net your@email.address | 09:29 |
| Burgundavia | yeppers | 09:30 |
| Burgundavia | ok, now number 2 | 09:30 |
| Burgundavia | I am very glad I generated a revocation cert when I generated my key | 09:31 |
| Burgundavia | as I lost my key with my reinstall | 09:31 |
| === Burgundavia grumbles | ||
| jjesse | that stinks | 09:31 |
| Burgundavia | that is why we are doing this together | 09:32 |
| jjesse | grin how long does it take to uploade the key? | 09:32 |
| Burgundavia | should happen right away | 09:33 |
| Burgundavia | and you should get this message back: gpg: success sending to `www.keyserver.net' (status=200) | 09:33 |
| jjesse | it timed out and had to retry now i have success | 09:35 |
| Burgundavia | o | 09:35 |
| Burgundavia | k | 09:35 |
| Burgundavia | now we generate you revoke crt | 09:35 |
| Burgundavia | print this one out | 09:35 |
| Burgundavia | and keep it safe | 09:35 |
| froud | :-) | 09:35 |
| froud | lol | 09:35 |
| jjesse | grin i will | 09:35 |
| jeffsch | don't forget to backup your private key... | 09:35 |
| === Burgundavia smacks jeffsch with a trout and then grumbles | ||
| === froud nudges Burgundavia | ||
| froud | practice what you preach comes to mind :-) | 09:36 |
| Burgundavia | Kinnison keeps his on his person | 09:36 |
| jeffsch | mmmmm....sushi | 09:36 |
| === jeffsch fears that the powers that be have penetrated his almuinum-foil ensconsed villa and stolen his keys | ||
| === claude is happy, he didn't remember his passphrase... | ||
| jeffsch | why do we need pgp for our svn anyway? | 09:39 |
| === Burgundavia observes that his keyboard is very dirty | ||
| Burgundavia | it is about trust | 09:39 |
| Burgundavia | that reminds me, froud? | 09:39 |
| Burgundavia | what key are we going to use with lenya? | 09:40 |
| jeffsch | why not let anyone write the same way we let anyone write to wiki? | 09:40 |
| froud | jeffsch: https | 09:40 |
| froud | no need | 09:40 |
| froud | each user has an account | 09:40 |
| froud | and the lenya wc has a general key for lenya | 09:40 |
| Burgundavia | ok | 09:40 |
| Burgundavia | that is what I thought | 09:40 |
| froud | but we will need ssh access | 09:40 |
| froud | :-) to svn commit from lenya to the main repos | 09:41 |
| jeffsch | even if youwant to restircet write access, why be so paranoid? why not send the password in the open. How many eveil yabbos are interesete din what we are doing? | 09:41 |
| froud | lenya is a staging area editing an svn wc | 09:41 |
| jeffsch | i think I meant "restrict" instead of "restirect" | 09:44 |
| === jiyuu0 [~jiyuu0@219.95.59.230] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| froud | chaps I am off to bed. deadline met time for sleep | 10:01 |
| froud | chow | 10:01 |
| === froud is now known as froud-away | ||
| Burgundavia | sorry jjesse I got lost in what I was doing | 10:02 |
| Burgundavia | need to send that key to elmo | 10:02 |
| jjesse | no problem i'm at work so i just got busy w/ problems | 10:02 |
| jjesse | how do i send the key? | 10:02 |
| jjesse | just through email and sign it? | 10:03 |
| Burgundavia | hm | 10:10 |
| Burgundavia | I don't really remember this part | 10:10 |
| Burgundavia | when you do something once, it often doesn't stick | 10:10 |
| Burgundavia | email enrico and ask him | 10:11 |
| jjesse | will od | 10:31 |
| jjesse | do | 10:31 |
| Burgundavia | ahhh | 10:47 |
| Burgundavia | OO Impress sucks donkey balls | 10:47 |
| Burgundavia | not to mention, it doesn't support SVG | 10:48 |
| jeffsch | Burgundavia: that's odd.... it reads wmf files*.svg | 11:09 |
| Burgundavia | I can't import as a graphic | 11:16 |
| Burgundavia | but Impress is not impressing me | 11:16 |
| Burgundavia | to say the least | 11:16 |
| Burgundavia | but I hate OO.o anyway | 11:16 |
| Burgundavia | too much crap and UI clutter | 11:16 |
| Burgundavia | too much like MS Office | 11:16 |
| jeffsch | hmm. you can produce svg files in OO drawings, but not read them into OO presentations | 11:17 |
| Burgundavia | indeed | 11:17 |
| jeffsch | yes, a bithc to use, same as MS office | 11:17 |
| Burgundavia | I thought of doing my whole presentation in Inkscape, then displaying with gthumb | 11:17 |
| jeffsch | but, MS office: no chance of improving that | 11:17 |
| jeffsch | how long is presentation? | 11:18 |
| Burgundavia | ~1 hr | 11:18 |
| Burgundavia | so I think I am going to rag on the OO.o Impress during my talk | 11:18 |
| jeffsch | yoiks! | 11:19 |
| === claude [~claude@254.94.79.83.cust.bluewin.ch] has left #ubuntu-doc [] | ||
| Burgundavia | ok | 11:20 |
| === froud-away [~froud@ndn-165-143-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| Burgundavia | there is no easy way to edit the background | 11:20 |
| Burgundavia | no button that say "edit background" | 11:20 |
| jeffsch | just insert graphic, then send to back | 11:22 |
| Burgundavia | that doesn't place an image on every tile | 11:23 |
| Burgundavia | I had a thought while I walked to the store about an ideal presentation client | 11:23 |
| Burgundavia | how to implement it, etc. | 11:24 |
| Burgundavia | hmm | 11:24 |
| Burgundavia | I want an image on every slide but the first | 11:24 |
| jeffsch | can you not just create a slide with the background you want and then duplicate it x number of times? | 11:25 |
| jeffsch | also, there must be a way of creating a template slide... | 11:26 |
| Burgundavia | there is | 11:27 |
| Burgundavia | but I don't want to apply it to the first slid | 11:27 |
| jeffsch | no problem. in bottom left corner, is the "master view" icon | 11:30 |
| jeffsch | click on it. add graphic. | 11:30 |
| Burgundavia | I did that | 11:30 |
| Burgundavia | now I don't want it to apply to the title screen | 11:30 |
| jeffsch | then, on first page of presentation, override graphic with blank screen | 11:31 |
| jeffsch | or text box, or whatever | 11:31 |
| Burgundavia | ok | 11:31 |
| Burgundavia | still too much work to do that | 11:32 |
| jeffsch | bah. typical lazy canadian. | 11:34 |
| Burgundavia | hey! | 11:34 |
| jeffsch | speaking of lazy canadians... | 11:34 |
| === Burgundavia wonders what jeffsch is avoiding doing | ||
| jeffsch | I have to go and lay about amy dentist's chair for a couple hours :( | 11:35 |
| Burgundavia | hmm | 11:35 |
| === jeffsch avoiding dentist! | ||
| Burgundavia | need to do that sometime sson | 11:35 |
| jeffsch | i'm getting a root canal. see you later. | 11:36 |
| === jeffsch is away: I'll be back | ||
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