[12:10] <mdke> good night all
[12:11] <sm> night mdke
[01:13] <Kinnison> Morning
[01:18] <jsgotangco> morning
[02:26] <jsgotangco> does anyone know in our current svn if we have an absolute beginners guide
[02:44] <solomarv> hey, guys, is there any work being done on gnome help to bring it up to date with hoary? like removing the note about "applications:///"? it does not work in hoary, but is still mentioned in gnome help
[03:10] <hypatia> I haven't heard of any efforts to make the GNOME documentation match Ubuntu.
[03:10] <hypatia> Which isn't to say that it's a bad idea.
[03:10] <hypatia> On the contrary, sounds like a good idea to me.
[03:10] <hypatia> Probably you would need to submit patches to whoever is maintaining that package for main.
[03:53] <solomarv> hypatia, thanks
[09:06] <jsgotangco> jeffsch, hey
[09:07] <jeffsch> howdy
[09:08] <jsgotangco> in a BOF
[11:53] <froud-work> Burgundavia: spoke to Thomas at TSF
[11:53] <froud-work> Burgundavia: he is leaving TSF and at present they will not be bringing volunteers
[11:54] <Burgundavia> ah
[11:54] <Burgundavia> thanks
[11:54] <froud-work> no problem
[11:55] <froud-work> Burgundavia: did you manage to add that install stuff to the installation guide?
[11:56] <froud-work> can you patch and I will apply it for you?
[11:59] <Burgundavia> still about half done
[11:59] <Burgundavia> been working on my talk recently
[11:59] <froud-work> OK, no worries
[01:46] <jsgotangco> Burgyyy
[01:46] <Burgundavia> salut
[01:46] <Burgundavia> how is UDU?
[02:00] <jsgotangco> bloody shitty wifi
[02:00] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, UDU is great but the food service kinda sucks
[02:01] <Burgundavia> Mataro was bloody awful
[02:01] <Burgundavia> the food that is
[02:01] <Burgundavia> otherwise it was great
[02:01] <Burgundavia> sabdfl called them "bags of death"
[02:01] <jsgotangco> d00d mataro was like 2 weeks
[02:02] <Burgundavia> indeed
[02:02] <Burgundavia> one more week of bad food
[02:02] <Burgundavia> it was great when they tried to serve the kosher guy ham
[02:08] <jsgotangco> noooo they assigned me a BOF
[02:08] <Burgundavia> which one?
[02:08] <jsgotangco> heck what else doc stuff
[02:08] <jsgotangco> system documentation
[02:08] <jsgotangco> duh
[02:10] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, when you go to the Ubuntu at conferences page, please mention my brochure, and keeping any of this stuff within the docteam repos
[02:11] <jsgotangco> what brochure?
[02:11] <Burgundavia> I am working on a brochure
[02:11] <Burgundavia> one page
[02:11] <jsgotangco> we talked about that with mako and jdub
[02:11] <jsgotangco> ok wilco
[02:11] <jsgotangco> yeah we need flyers
[02:11] <Burgundavia> I was going to have it done by this weekend
[02:12] <jsgotangco> ok great i'll put it in the wiki then
[02:12] <Burgundavia> but I am dropping it as we don't have a table at the conference for this
[02:12] <jsgotangco> hmm we have a wiki page for that already
[02:13] <Burgundavia> this already happened? http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/AbsoluteBeginnerCommunity
[02:13] <jsgotangco> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuAtConferences
[02:13] <jsgotangco> yeah
[02:13] <jsgotangco> i was there as well
[02:13] <Burgundavia> can we get some feedback from you regarding what happened?
[02:14] <jsgotangco> what happened? its in the wiki its already in draft
[02:14] <jsgotangco> awww Burgy we also have brown ubuntu shirts to
[02:15] <Burgundavia> gahhh
[02:15] <Burgundavia> don't frustrate me further
[02:15] <jsgotangco> we had this global BOF about WhatWindowsUsersWant
[02:15] <jsgotangco> this guy named Tim was aussie and he attended
[02:15] <jsgotangco> sabdfl made it to a lightning bof
[02:16] <Burgundavia> cool
[02:16] <Burgundavia> what was said?
[02:16] <jsgotangco> well its mostly in the old wiki and stuff
[02:16] <jsgotangco> let me get that
[02:16] <jsgotangco> mdke, should be familiar with it
[02:16] <jsgotangco> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/WhatWindowsUsersWant
[02:18] <jsgotangco> im beginning to miss good stuff on the wiki
[02:18] <jsgotangco> well its a rarity anyways
[02:20] <jsgotangco> hypatia dropped by today
[02:20] <Burgundavia> it is thurs there, no?
[02:20] <jsgotangco> its only wednesday 10:24pm
[02:20] <Burgundavia> ah
[02:20] <jsgotangco> they're still making the sched for tommorow
[02:20] <Burgundavia> where you here? http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/TranslationProcess
[02:21] <jsgotangco> no :)
[02:21] <jsgotangco> i meant :(
[02:21] <Burgundavia> damn
[02:21] <Burgundavia> you are the only member of the doc team there
[02:21] <Burgundavia> myself, froud,mdke and jeffsch are not there
[02:21] <jsgotangco> i know i know but i got to like go to other bofs that affect stuff
[02:22] <jsgotangco> they even had to resched one bof so that mary can attend because im stuffed already
[02:22] <jsgotangco> i barely get a break here
[02:22] <Burgundavia> don't worry, one person can only be in one place at atime
[02:24] <jsgotangco> i even got a pda bof doh
[02:25] <jsgotangco> doh and a notebook dialup bof
[02:25] <jsgotangco> grr i better go upstairs
[02:28] <jsgotangco> bye bye
[02:29] <Burgundavia> np
[06:59] <jiyuu0> hello all
[06:59] <jiyuu0> now i've started workin on this
[06:59] <jiyuu0> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=150088
[07:07] <_froud_> jiyuu0: it would have been nice if you had done this in svn
[07:08] <_froud_> we could have easily packaged it as a deb
[07:08] <_froud_> now we must update svn with your work.
[07:09] <_froud_> this kind of headache is not for me. I am inclined to delete the copy of the guide now in SVN
[07:09] <_froud_> and leave ubuntu guide to do its own thing
[07:10] <_froud_> it seems that people working on this guide do not want to coperate with others in the docteam
[07:10] <_froud_> which is a shame because a new version would have been good and could have gone into Rosetta for translation
[07:11] <jiyuu0> i need some time / learn to do that
[07:11] <jiyuu0> as the .html is already there... that's why i continue with it
[07:11] <_froud_> sorry but this kind of thing pisses me off, especially when we tried to talk to the people on this guide
[07:11] <_froud_> jiyuu0: we offered support
[07:11] <_froud_> you never cam eback and asked for it\
[07:11] <_froud_> So was the XML
[07:11] <jiyuu0> i just came back like 2 weeks to ubuntuguide
[07:12] <_froud_> you could have with our support continued from there
[07:12] <jiyuu0> and rushing like mad to update it
[07:12] <_froud_> ruch like mad in svn 
[07:12] <_froud_> ruch
[07:12] <_froud_> not out there
[07:12] <_froud_> we put work into porting your work
[07:12] <_froud_> and made several attempts to speak with you on this
[07:12] <_froud_> you just went ahead
[07:13] <_froud_> not cool IMHO
[07:13] <_froud_> The XML has been there for weeks
[07:13] <jiyuu0> sorry... my fault
[07:13] <_froud_> who is now gonna merge the updates there into svn
[07:14] <jiyuu0> i'm thinkin to do it
[07:14] <jiyuu0> once i'm done with this version
[07:14] <_froud_> sorry dude I dont believe you will want to do it all over again
[07:14] <_froud_> some people were kean to help you on this project
[07:15] <_froud_> I dunno if you will still have their support
[07:15] <_froud_> we got crital feedback about the guide in our meeting
[07:15] <jiyuu0> which version
[07:15] <_froud_> very valuable input form people doing support on #ubuntu
[07:15] <jiyuu0> the initial release?
[07:16] <_froud_> I cant see that any of that inout has gone into the new version
[07:16] <jiyuu0> regarding?
[07:16] <_froud_> Burgundavia: explain to the man please
[07:16] <jiyuu0> i hardly check my ubuntu mail
[07:16] <jiyuu0> too many spams
[07:16] <_froud_> my patience is running out
[07:16] <jiyuu0> and request for support
[07:16] <_froud_> jiyuu0: get spam protection dude
[07:17] <_froud_> jiyuu0: if you want o work as an Island tell us and we will leave you alone
[07:17] <_froud_> I sent you mail, twice
[07:17] <_froud_> you answered once
[07:17] <_froud_> and then you disappeared
[07:17] <Burgundavia> hello
[07:17] <_froud_> for all we know we are sending mail into e-heaven
[07:17] <Burgundavia> sorry, give me a sec to read the scrollback
[07:18] <_froud_> Burgundavia: jiyuu0 has updated ubuntuguide
[07:18] <_froud_> now we have svn and his version
[07:18] <Burgundavia> I see that
[07:18] <_froud_> not coll
[07:18] <Burgundavia> I also see a licencing issue
[07:18] <_froud_> coo;
[07:18] <_froud_> none of the input we got is in there
[07:18] <jiyuu0> what's the input
[07:18] <_froud_> and we have two versions
[07:18] <jiyuu0> let me check my mail
[07:19] <jiyuu0> what's ur name in email?
[07:19] <Burgundavia> jiyuu0, I sent you something regarding your information on repos
[07:19] <_froud_> jiyuu0: we aske dyou to join and speak to us so we can give you the inout
[07:19] <_froud_> input
[07:19] <Burgundavia> jiyuu0, I am going to be very very frank right now. If I offend you, I am sorry
[07:19] <Burgundavia> your ideas are really really great
[07:20] <jiyuu0> no offend
[07:20] <Burgundavia> but what you are advocating is really not best practice
[07:20] <jiyuu0> repos thingi?
[07:20] <Burgundavia> there are lots of little things that need to be fixed in your guide
[07:20] <jiyuu0> how do u suggest?
[07:20] <Burgundavia> unfortunately, your guide is essentially a closed source thing for us
[07:20] <_froud_> jiyuu0: 1st work with the team not in your own island
[07:20] <Burgundavia> we cannot fix the problems in them
[07:21] <Burgundavia> now, currently our systems are not the best for the casual person, but you are not the casual person
[07:21] <Burgundavia> you also have mindshare, which I consider a bad thing, as I don't think your guide is actually something I can recommend to anyone
[07:22] <Burgundavia> I don't want to work against you, but sometimes I find myself doing that on #ubuntu, as I really think that people need to get good advice, and sometimes your guide doesn't give it
[07:22] <Burgundavia> now, that being said, it is an amazing start
[07:22] <froud> Burgundavia: there were several cases where uses got into troubles using the guide, can you remember them
[07:22] <Burgundavia> the repos one
[07:22] <jiyuu0> apt-get install mplayer-386 right?
[07:23] <jiyuu0> what else?
[07:23] <jiyuu0> i get this often back then
[07:23] <Burgundavia> I haven't really dug really deeply into the errors of the guide
[07:23] <froud> jiyuu0: do you want to work with the team and open source it, or do you want to keep it closed?
[07:23] <Burgundavia> also, gpl is not compatitible with gfdl and cc-by-sa, which we use
[07:24] <Burgundavia> and your warty guide is also licenced under
[07:24] <Burgundavia> thus you have, accidentally created an incompatitible fork
[07:24] <jiyuu0> the license was suggested back then by mako
[07:24] <Burgundavia> mako would have suggested one of our licences
[07:24] <froud> yes, but things change and that is whty we ask you to communicate with us
[07:25] <jiyuu0> Burgundavia, which license it is?
[07:25] <Burgundavia> yours is currently licenced gpl
[07:25] <jiyuu0> so what u suggest to change?
[07:25] <Burgundavia> our docs are dual gfdl and cc-by-sa 2.0
[07:25] <Burgundavia> your old warty doc is also licenced under this
[07:25] <froud> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamLicense
[07:25] <Burgundavia> I seem to remember that Plovs spoke with you regarding it
[07:25] <froud> sanction as official by mako
[07:26] <Burgundavia> we had a discussion about licencing with mako in Mataro, and it also hit the lists
[07:26] <jiyuu0> i can change the license.... not a big issue
[07:26] <Burgundavia> ok
[07:26] <froud> who will port it to svn db xml?
[07:26] <jiyuu0> that one i can
[07:26] <jiyuu0> but i need some time finish some work with ubuntuguide first
[07:27] <froud> are you now setup for it
[07:27] <jiyuu0> and now worrkin on the add on CD
[07:27] <Burgundavia> however, no matter how good we make your docs we still have the split
[07:27] <froud> I think finsih the book in svn
[07:27] <froud> that way people can help
[07:27] <Burgundavia> thus my ideal plan would be to merge our eventual web portal into your ubuntuguide.org
[07:27] <froud> more people makes it easier for you
[07:27] <jiyuu0> then i have to abandon ubuntuguide right?
[07:27] <jiyuu0> where got time for both
[07:28] <froud> jiyuu0: not abandone
[07:28] <froud> just open it so others can help you
[07:28] <Burgundavia> jiyuu0, no, you don't have to abandon ubuntuguide
[07:28] <Burgundavia> far from it
[07:28] <froud> it will make life easier for you
[07:28] <Burgundavia> rather we would fold your url and project into ours
[07:28] <Burgundavia> as then you harness the power of OSS
[07:29] <froud> also we can make deb packages of the book
[07:29] <froud> and get it translated in rosetta
[07:29] <froud> this will help you with your live cd
[07:30] <froud> jiyuu0: are you setup to work with svn
[07:30] <jiyuu0> i am agreeable wif this
[07:30] <jiyuu0> but maybe gimme some extra time
[07:31] <jiyuu0> to finish what's outstanding
[07:31] <Burgundavia> ok
[07:31] <froud> how much time
[07:31] <jiyuu0> then we'll work on the portal
[07:31] <jiyuu0> and the svn thingi
[07:31] <Burgundavia> our web portal isn't up yet
[07:31] <Burgundavia> we can finalize what is going to happen when it is up
[07:31] <jiyuu0> ubuntuguide.org planned content is 80% there already
[07:31] <jiyuu0> left email server
[07:31] <jiyuu0> and now working on ubuntuguide.org CD
[07:31] <froud> jiyuu0: do you have a delta of the change you have made
[07:31] <jiyuu0> which should finish in few days times
[07:32] <jiyuu0> not really.... 
[07:32] <froud> can you diff the changes so that we can see what needs updating in svn
[07:32] <Burgundavia> hmm
[07:32] <froud> that will cut the work
[07:32] <jiyuu0> i move the topic up and down sometimes
[07:32] <Burgundavia> we can probably do one from the raw html
[07:32] <jiyuu0> still organizing it
[07:32] <froud> Burgundavia: I dont have a backup of it
[07:32] <froud> do you
[07:32] <jiyuu0> i think... later i'll learn the svn xml thingi... and i'll port it over
[07:33] <froud> jiyuu0: its many hours of work
[07:33] <Burgundavia> the warty html one is still up
[07:33] <froud> ittook plovs over three weeks
[07:33] <jiyuu0> i can take that as reference
[07:33] <froud> Burgundavia:  will you diff it
[07:33] <Burgundavia> sure
[07:33] <jiyuu0> if my work is easy... i can work on it full time
[07:34] <Burgundavia> ok
[07:34] <froud> Burgundavia: I am not sure jiyuu0 fully understands the pwoer of what we are saying here
[07:34] <Burgundavia> ok
[07:34] <Burgundavia> for going forward
[07:34] <jiyuu0> convert it to xml
[07:34] <jiyuu0> the put in svn
[07:34] <froud> I would preffer to diff and add the stuff to svn asap
[07:34] <Burgundavia> short term: diff the new guide and update svn
[07:34] <jiyuu0> and everyone can update right?
[07:35] <Burgundavia> 2: fix the ubuntuguide.org
[07:35] <jiyuu0> would that make ubuntuguide.org into official?
[07:35] <froud> yes
[07:35] <froud> that was our intent
[07:35] <froud> we liked your work
[07:35] <Burgundavia> when the portal is up, we need to discuss a permanent url
[07:35] <froud> all of us
[07:35] <jiyuu0> then i need to get diff hosting then
[07:36] <jiyuu0> cause the current one is already bursting my bandwidth
[07:36] <froud> why
[07:36] <Burgundavia> we can make ubuntuguide.org a redir to a new url on the Ubuntu servers
[07:36] <froud> it will be at Canonical
[07:36] <Burgundavia> I happen to like help.ubuntu.com myself
[07:36] <froud> yep
[07:37] <Burgundavia> froud, can we hack lenya so we have simple urls: help.ubuntu.com/Sudo ?
[07:37] <froud> yes
[07:37] <Burgundavia> nice
[07:37] <Burgundavia> that is key
[07:37] <froud> jiyuu0: is it a train smash if we get you working in svn and doc book now
[07:37] <Burgundavia> jiyuu0, you have provided docs when we haven't been able to get them out to people easily. That is a service that is beyond helpful
[07:38] <froud> jiyuu0: I mean take current status
[07:38] <froud> Burgundavia: makes diff
[07:38] <Burgundavia> ok
[07:38] <froud> we add changes to svn 
[07:38] <froud> we continue to finish it in svn
[07:38] <froud> then we transform to html and host at Canonical
[07:39] <jiyuu0> why not let me wrap things up here
[07:40] <froud> how much time
[07:40] <jiyuu0> and then i'll train smash on it
[07:40] <froud> 1 week 2 week
[07:40] <froud> a month
[07:40] <jiyuu0> on the 8th next month was my target date to finish it
[07:40] <jiyuu0> 1 month from day release
[07:40] <froud> 11 days
[07:40] <froud> ok
[07:40] <jiyuu0> actually i just change the version from 0.x to 1.x today... which means... i'm nearly done wif it
[07:41] <jiyuu0> then i'll start workin on the xml thingi
[07:41] <froud> jiyuu0: dont take down the old version
[07:41] <froud> jiyuu0: we first will diff it
[07:41] <froud> so we can see just your changes
[07:41] <jiyuu0> 4.10???
[07:41] <froud> yes
[07:41] <froud> leave it there
[07:41] <jiyuu0> 4.10 not much changes
[07:41] <jiyuu0> just took out bacport
[07:41] <jiyuu0> and a spelling mistake
[07:42] <jiyuu0> window which is suppose to be windows
[07:42] <Burgundavia> ick
[07:42] <froud> argh
[07:42] <Burgundavia> a raw diff is ick because so much stuff has moved around
[07:42] <jiyuu0> but 5.04... lot's of changes
[07:42] <jiyuu0> i'll work on 5.04 for the xml 
[07:43] <froud> jiyuu0: we are trying to find a short path to porting your work into the current version in svn
[07:43] <froud> Burgundavia: can we make head or tails ofthe diff
[07:43] <Burgundavia> froud, not really
[07:43] <froud> ouch
[07:43] <Burgundavia> as the stuff has moved
[07:43] <froud> so we have to manually sift the two docs
[07:43] <Burgundavia> what comes out is a not a straight replacement for what comes in
[07:44] <Burgundavia> shouldn't actually be that bad
[07:44] <Burgundavia> I need to review the hoary guide anyway, so I can do both at the same time
[07:44] <froud> if we can see justthe changes
[07:44] <froud> itwill make life much easier
[07:44] <froud> Is it HTML 1.0 or XHTML3
[07:45] <froud> opps
[07:45] <froud> XHTML
[07:45] <froud> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
[07:45] <froud> Ok it is strict
[07:45] <froud> that is a good thing
[07:46] <jiyuu0> 5.04 not strict because of the paypal button
[07:46] <jiyuu0> else should be strict
[07:46] <froud> Burgundavia: I may be able to convert to db
[07:46] <froud> but it will not be in qanda format
[07:46] <froud> we would need to hack it 
[07:47] <froud> which route do you think is easier
[07:47] <froud> jiyuu0: paypal will not be an option once it is in svn
[07:47] <froud> jiyuu0: are you ok with this
[07:48] <froud> perhaps you are doing this to make some cash
[07:48] <jjesse> comming late to the discussion but why are we going to use this after i have had to help people out with problems due to the guide
[07:48] <jiyuu0> not really
[07:48] <froud> jjesse: we use it and improve it
[07:48] <jiyuu0> i put the paypal... just to see who will donate
[07:48] <jiyuu0> for fun
[07:48] <froud> jiyuu0: ok just so long as we are clear
[07:49] <froud> jjesse: we know there are problems
[07:49] <jiyuu0> jjesse, what's the prob
[07:49] <froud> jjesse: but we cant fix them as it stands now
[07:49] <jiyuu0> when u all say there's prob... it's the repo thingi that broke with mplayer right?
[07:49] <jiyuu0> what do u all suggest?
[07:49] <froud> jjesse: when in svn we can address them with jiyuu0 
[07:50] <froud> jjesse: do you still have a list of the problems
[07:50] <jjesse> ok good
[07:50] <jjesse> i am checking, phone just rang
[07:50] <froud> it should be in a log somewhere
[07:50] <froud> I need to check back to the metting before last
[07:50] <jjesse> there were some that was discussed on the mailing list
[07:50] <jiyuu0> i need to know the prob... cause so far the prob i heard is mplayer
[07:50] <jiyuu0> and it has been fixed in the guide
[07:51] <froud> yeah it is kinda spread
[07:51] <froud> jjesse: one of  the problems was a usability issue to do with letting newbie users to do sensitive stuff
[07:51] <froud> jjesse: right?
[07:51] <jjesse> yes
[07:52] <jiyuu0> e.g?
[07:52] <froud> this impacted on the whole doc
[07:52] <jjesse> i'm trying to dig through my notes, it wasn't on #ubuntu it was a friend doing it in person
[07:52] <jjesse> we ended up reinstalling ubuntu from the cd and set it up as i setup my local install of ubuntu
[07:52] <jiyuu0> issit the sound prob?
[07:53] <froud> jiyuu0: its not one particular part orsection
[07:53] <jiyuu0> that's weird... cause i've done and tested it many many times
[07:53] <froud> it was just that users got information that was technical
[07:53] <jiyuu0> correct + updated many many times too
[07:53] <jiyuu0> typos?
[07:53] <froud> well to technical for a newbie
[07:54] <froud> and many newbies ran into problems
[07:54] <froud> because they did not understand the big picture
[07:54] <jjesse> also he added a repository that messsed things up, but i don't remember if it was from the guide or not
[07:54] <froud> they did one thing as you said
[07:54] <jiyuu0> i've tried my best to write it to the easiet method possible
[07:54] <froud> but they did not know to do another if they did so
[07:54] <froud> that kind of stuff
[07:54] <jiyuu0> but i think now... it's pretty stable
[07:55] <jiyuu0> i've updated a lot
[07:55] <froud> jiyuu0: its a usability issue, not a correctness issue
[07:55] <jiyuu0> why not u guys check it out
[07:55] <jiyuu0> ic
[07:55] <froud> jiyuu0: what will that help
[07:55] <froud> we cant change it :-)
[07:56] <froud> In svn the doc becomes a living object, as support has problems we can immediately fix and republish
[07:56] <froud> we can manage bug list against it
[07:56] <jiyuu0> and everyone can change that?
[07:56] <froud> as people have time they can ackle the problems
[07:56] <froud> can change what
[07:57] <froud> the guide, how
[07:57] <froud> or the one in svn
[07:57] <froud> insvn all can change it
[07:57] <jjesse> docbook really isn't that hard to learn, i'm brand new to it and slowly learning it
[07:58] <froud> for example a support person would post a problem to the list and we woul djust fix it
[07:58] <froud> jjesse: jiyuu0 knows html there will not be a problem
[07:59] <froud> Burgundavia: shorter to diff and make sense, or just to transform to xml
[07:59] <froud> ?
[08:00] <Burgundavia> easier to parse manually and edit the xml from there
[08:00] <Burgundavia> kills 2 birds with one stone
[08:00] <froud> OK
[08:00] <froud> agree
[08:00] <Burgundavia> update our version and give feedback to jiyuu0 
[08:00] <froud> no no, get jiyuu0 inline to svn updates
[08:00] <froud> he can see the changes then
[08:00] <froud> as they happen
[08:01] <Burgundavia> ok
[08:01] <froud> jiyuu0: can you install subversion please
[08:01] <froud> sudo apt-get install subversion
[08:01] <jiyuu0> i am rushing to finish up the add-on CD
[08:02] <froud> we want you to at least have a wc
[08:02] <jiyuu0> can i do that once i'm done with the CD
[08:02] <jiyuu0> ok
[08:02] <froud> so you can see what we are doing
[08:02] <jjesse> is the guide going to be on the cd?
[08:02] <froud> jjesse: why not
[08:02] <froud> we wante dit in hoary
[08:02] <jjesse> if the guide is so incorrect then why would we want to give it out to everyone?
[08:02] <froud> jjesse: we have to work on it for breezy :-)
[08:03] <jiyuu0> jjesse, i'm makin a Unofficial UbuntuGuide 5.04 Add-On CD Guide
[08:03] <jjesse> ok
[08:03] <jiyuu0> it will contain all the cache
[08:03] <jjesse> got a little lost in the converstion
[08:03] <jiyuu0> and downloads
[08:03] <froud> jiyuu0: if you can do a checkout now, then we can start work on updating our copy in svn
[08:03] <froud> and you can see the changes
[08:04] <jiyuu0> trying
[08:04] <froud> all you need to do to see the changes is subscribe to our commit list
[08:04] <froud> I have some time to help you get a checkout
[08:04] <froud> you want to do it now it takes a few minutes
[08:05] <jiyuu0> installing
[08:05] <froud> we will also need you to send your pgp key to elmo sometime
[08:05] <froud> so you can get a commit account
[08:05] <jiyuu0> that i've not tried b4
[08:06] <froud> what pgp
[08:06] <froud> or commit
[08:07] <jiyuu0> both... i've not tried b4
[08:07] <froud> ok dont worry
[08:07] <jiyuu0> ok... subversion installed
[08:07] <froud> lets take baby steps
[08:07] <froud> ok decide where you want your working copy
[08:07] <froud> what is the path?
[08:08] <jiyuu0> $HOME
[08:08] <froud> ok
[08:08] <froud> now do the following commands
[08:08] <froud> svn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk ubuntu-docs
[08:09] <froud> it will create a folder in ~ called ubuntu-docs
[08:09] <froud> and you will see it adding a revision from HEAD to this folder
[08:09] <froud> this is your working copy
[08:09] <froud> dont worry you can break it all you like and you wont damage the repository
[08:09] <jiyuu0> Error validating server certificate for 'https://docteam.ubuntu.com:443':
[08:09] <jiyuu0>  - The certificate is not issued by a trusted authority. Use the
[08:09] <jiyuu0>    fingerprint to validate the certificate manually!
[08:09] <jiyuu0> Certificate information:
[08:09] <jiyuu0>  - Hostname: docteam.ubuntu.com
[08:09] <jiyuu0>  - Valid: from Feb  1 16:20:49 2005 GMT until Oct 28 16:20:49 2007 GMT
[08:09] <jiyuu0>  - Issuer: Canonical Ltd, Douglas, IM
[08:10] <jiyuu0>  - Fingerprint: c2:91:b6:41:c7:88:1a:82:bf:79:30:36:0b:7f:7f:81:c3:e8:04:8d
[08:10] <jiyuu0> (R)eject, accept (t)emporarily or accept (p)ermanently?
[08:10] <froud> p
[08:10] <Burgundavia> jiyuu0, I am going to have a string of emails regarding things in the docs over the next few days
[08:10] <jiyuu0> ok
[08:10] <Burgundavia> that is because Canonical needs to get a proper cert to sign stuff
[08:10] <froud> :-)
[08:10] <froud> just do p
[08:10] <jiyuu0> did it
[08:10] <jiyuu0> waiting
[08:12] <froud> jiyuu0: you are on the list right
[08:12] <froud> while you wait, please sibscribe to the commit list http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc-commits
[08:12] <froud> This list send you messages showing what has changed
[08:13] <jiyuu0> ok
[08:13] <jiyuu0> the "p" is still not moving
[08:13] <jiyuu0> my line is bad
[08:13] <jiyuu0> maybe
[08:13] <froud> did you press enter :-)
[08:13] <jiyuu0> this page is also slow
[08:13] <jiyuu0> http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc-commits
[08:13] <jiyuu0> hehe... of course i did
[08:13] <jiyuu0> :P
[08:13] <froud> Ok the first checkout is big
[08:14] <froud> after that it is better
[08:14] <jiyuu0> ok
[08:14] <froud> because you only update the differences
[08:14] <froud> what line spead are you on?
[08:14] <froud> speed
[08:15] <jiyuu0> i'm not sure... LAN
[08:15] <froud> Hmm at Uni
[08:15] <froud> or work
[08:15] <jiyuu0> at home
[08:15] <jiyuu0> it's my housemate's account
[08:15] <froud> DSL
[08:16] <jiyuu0> yub
[08:16] <froud> or ppp
[08:16] <froud> DSL should be ok
[08:16] <jiyuu0> subscribed
[08:16] <jiyuu0> svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/repos/trunk'
[08:16] <jiyuu0> svn: PROPFIND of '/repos/trunk': could not connect to server (https://docteam.ubuntu.com)
[08:16] <jiyuu0> seems like have to try again
[08:16] <froud> timed out
[08:16] <froud> ping the server
[08:17] <froud> do you get a response
[08:17] <jiyuu0> seems not
[08:17] <jiyuu0> line seems bad today
[08:18] <jiyuu0> browsing also slow
[08:18] <jiyuu0> it's alive
[08:19] <froud> ok do svn checkout again
[08:20] <froud> any response?
[08:20] <jiyuu0> it's downloading
[08:21] <froud> OK
[08:21] <froud> let it finish and I will take you through the basics you will need
[08:22] <froud> jiyuu0: the principle is simple. We all have a working copy, and hack that.
[08:22] <jiyuu0> then how do i update it?
[08:22] <froud> When we finish hacking we commit the changes back to the repository
[08:22] <froud> hold
[08:23] <froud> everyone sees the patch by way of the commit list
[08:23] <froud> then all you do is form your ~
[08:23] <froud> cd ubuntu-doc
[08:23] <froud> svn up
[08:23] <froud> that will bring all updates to your working copy
[08:23] <froud> now at first you dont have a commit account
[08:24] <froud> so you will have to create patches
[08:24] <froud> its easy
[08:24] <froud> you hack a file and save it
[08:24] <froud> then you do svn diff foofile.xml > foofile.xml.diff
[08:25] <froud> less foofile.xml.diff to see only the changes you have made
[08:25] <froud> send the file to the regular users mailing list
[08:25] <froud> one of the commit account holders will apply it to their own working copy
[08:26] <froud> and commit it to the repos
[08:26] <froud> when you have a commit account you will not need to make a diff
[08:26] <froud> no send itto the list
[08:26] <froud> you will just do svn commit
[08:26] <froud> and the diff will be written to the server
[08:27] <froud> each time you commit we will see it
[08:27] <froud> and we can do svn up
[08:27] <froud> and so the cycle goes on
[08:27] <froud> any questions?
[08:28] <jiyuu0> A  ubuntu-docs/gnome/images/C/tetravex.png
[08:28] <jiyuu0> ...
[08:28] <froud> jiyuu0: here is a step-by-step
[08:28] <froud> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamStepByStepRepository
[08:29] <froud> jiyuu0: yeah first checout is big
[08:30] <froud> jiyuu0: are you a gnome user or kde?
[08:30] <jiyuu0> currently using gnome
[08:30] <froud> ok
[08:30] <jiyuu0> haven really try kubuntu yet
[08:30] <jiyuu0> using mepis for a while too
[08:31] <froud> so I would suggest for starters that you try looking at some of the xml files using gedit
[08:31] <jiyuu0> ok
[08:31] <froud> you will also need to install a few tools
[08:31] <jiyuu0> i'll pop questions if i bump into probs
[08:31] <froud> sudo apt-get install docbook
[08:31] <froud> sudo apt-get install docbook-xsl
[08:32] <froud> sudo apt-get install xsltproc
[08:32] <froud> sudo apt-get install xmllint (although that may be installed when you insall xsltproc)
[08:33] <froud> and and for i18n (optional)
[08:33] <froud> sudo apt-get install poxml (from kdesdk)
[08:33] <froud> that is it
[08:34] <froud> dont worry if you dont know what to do with the xml elements
[08:34] <froud> and for now ifyou dont get valid and well-formed docs
[08:34] <froud> we will fix these problems and you will soon get the hang of it
[08:35] <jiyuu0> thanks :)
[08:35] <jiyuu0> it's still downloading... 
[08:35] <jiyuu0> i have to crash... it's 2:35am already
[08:35] <jiyuu0> else tomorrow i'll be late
[08:35] <froud> Ok let it run
[08:35] <froud> when you wake look in generic/faqguide/C
[08:35] <froud> ther eyou will find the ubuntuguide
[08:36] <jiyuu0> ok
[08:36] <jiyuu0> nite :)
[08:37] <froud> nite
[08:38] <froud> join us tomorrow for the next installment :-)
[09:04] <jjesse> if i made a couple of minor changes to the kquickguide, i need to diff it and send it to the list right?
[09:04] <Burgundavia> yep
[09:05] <froud> yes please:_)
[09:05] <jjesse> newbie question how do i make a diff?
[09:05] <froud> jjesse: when are you gonna send your pgp key to elmo
[09:05] <jjesse> froud as soon as i get one
[09:05] <froud> jjesse: make the kquickguide dir your pwd
[09:06] <froud> svn diff kquickguide.xml > kquickguide.xml.diff
[09:06] <jjesse> how do i get one?
[09:08] <froud> attach the diff to a message and post to the user list
[09:10] <jjesse> pardon the ignorance where do i go to create my pgp key?
[09:11] <froud> Burgundavia: help jjesse create a pgp key please I have a deadline and am behind
[09:11] <froud> :-)
[09:11] <jjesse> grin sorry to be a pain
[09:11] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:11] <froud> no not a pain
[09:11] <Burgundavia> ugh
[09:11] <Burgundavia> have to do this myself
[09:12] <froud> He can send it to enrico who will forward it to elmo
[09:12] <froud> thanks
[09:12] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:15] <Burgundavia> jjesse, first start by installing gpg
[09:17] <jjesse> hmmm it is saying that gpg is not avaiable :(
[09:17] <Burgundavia> huh
[09:17] <jjesse> hmmm wait never mind i  messed up
[09:17] <jjesse> ok installed
[09:18] <Burgundavia> bah
[09:18] <Burgundavia> is gnupg
[09:18] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:18] <Burgundavia> now open a terminal and key 'gpg --gen-key'
[09:19] <jjesse> ok what type?
[09:19] <Burgundavia> default
[09:19] <jjesse> DSA and ELGamal, DSA sign only or RSA sign only
[09:19] <jjesse> keysize?
[09:19] <Burgundavia> accept the default
[09:19] <jjesse> same for expire?
[09:19] <Burgundavia> accept the defaults
[09:19] <Burgundavia> they are good
[09:20] <jjesse> now i need a passphrase
[09:20] <jjesse> how long should it be ?
[09:20] <Burgundavia> something fairly long
[09:20] <Burgundavia> mine is a sentence with no spaces
[09:20] <Burgundavia> but also something you can remember
[09:21] <jjesse> ok done
[09:21] <froud> jjesse: applied, thanks
[09:21] <jjesse> your welcome froud
[09:22] <Burgundavia> two more things
[09:22] <Burgundavia> send the key to a keyserver
[09:22] <jjesse> ok is there a keyserver to use or?
[09:23] <Burgundavia> pretty much all the big ones share amongst themselves
[09:23] <Burgundavia> but the biggest is pgp.net
[09:24] <jjesse> ok
[09:25] <Burgundavia> so first is 'gpg --send-keys --keyserver wwwkeys.pgp.net your@email.address'
[09:25] <Burgundavia> bah
[09:25] <Burgundavia> just a sec
[09:26] <jjesse> holding
[09:28] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:28] <Burgundavia> www.keyserver.net
[09:28] <Burgundavia> not that pgp site
[09:28] <Burgundavia> but as a said, it will go around between the keyservers
[09:29] <jjesse> so do a gpg  --send-keys --kyserver www.keyserv.net your@email.address
[09:30] <Burgundavia> yeppers
[09:30] <Burgundavia> ok, now number 2
[09:31] <Burgundavia> I am very glad I generated a revocation cert when I generated my key
[09:31] <Burgundavia> as I lost my key with my reinstall
[09:31] <jjesse> that stinks
[09:32] <Burgundavia> that is why we are doing this together
[09:32] <jjesse> grin how long does it take to uploade the key?
[09:33] <Burgundavia> should happen right away
[09:33] <Burgundavia> and you should get this message back: gpg: success sending to `www.keyserver.net' (status=200)
[09:35] <jjesse> it timed out and had to retry now i have success
[09:35] <Burgundavia> o
[09:35] <Burgundavia> k
[09:35] <Burgundavia> now we generate you revoke crt
[09:35] <Burgundavia> print this one out
[09:35] <Burgundavia> and keep it safe
[09:35] <froud> :-)
[09:35] <froud> lol
[09:35] <jjesse> grin i will 
[09:35] <jeffsch> don't forget to backup your private key...
[09:36] <froud> practice what you preach comes to mind :-)
[09:36] <Burgundavia> Kinnison keeps his on his person
[09:36] <jeffsch> mmmmm....sushi
[09:39] <jeffsch> why do we need pgp for our svn anyway?
[09:39] <Burgundavia> it is about trust
[09:39] <Burgundavia> that reminds me, froud?
[09:40] <Burgundavia> what key are we going to use with lenya?
[09:40] <jeffsch> why not let anyone write the same way we let anyone write to wiki?
[09:40] <froud> jeffsch: https
[09:40] <froud> no need
[09:40] <froud> each user has an account
[09:40] <froud> and the lenya wc has a general key for lenya
[09:40] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:40] <Burgundavia> that is what I thought
[09:40] <froud> but we will need ssh access
[09:41] <froud> :-) to svn commit from lenya to the main repos
[09:41] <jeffsch> even if youwant to restircet write access, why be so paranoid? why not send the password in the open. How many eveil yabbos are interesete din what we are doing?
[09:41] <froud> lenya is a staging area editing an svn wc
[09:44] <jeffsch> i think I meant "restrict" instead of "restirect"
[10:01] <froud> chaps I am off to bed. deadline met time for sleep
[10:01] <froud> chow
[10:02] <Burgundavia> sorry jjesse I got lost in what I was doing
[10:02] <Burgundavia> need to send that key to elmo
[10:02] <jjesse> no problem i'm at work so i just got busy w/ problems
[10:02] <jjesse> how do i send the key?
[10:03] <jjesse> just through email and sign it?
[10:10] <Burgundavia> hm
[10:10] <Burgundavia> I don't really remember this part
[10:10] <Burgundavia> when you do something once, it often doesn't stick
[10:11] <Burgundavia> email enrico and ask him
[10:31] <jjesse> will od
[10:31] <jjesse> do
[10:47] <Burgundavia> ahhh
[10:47] <Burgundavia> OO Impress sucks donkey balls
[10:48] <Burgundavia> not to mention, it doesn't support SVG
[11:09] <jeffsch> Burgundavia: that's odd.... it reads wmf files*.svg
[11:16] <Burgundavia> I can't import as a graphic
[11:16] <Burgundavia> but Impress is not impressing me
[11:16] <Burgundavia> to say the least
[11:16] <Burgundavia> but I hate OO.o anyway
[11:16] <Burgundavia> too much crap and UI clutter
[11:16] <Burgundavia> too much like MS Office
[11:17] <jeffsch> hmm. you can produce svg files in OO drawings, but not read them into OO presentations
[11:17] <Burgundavia> indeed
[11:17] <jeffsch> yes, a bithc to use, same as MS office
[11:17] <Burgundavia> I thought of doing my whole presentation in Inkscape, then displaying with gthumb
[11:17] <jeffsch> but, MS office: no chance of improving that
[11:18] <jeffsch> how long is presentation?
[11:18] <Burgundavia> ~1 hr
[11:18] <Burgundavia> so I think I am going to rag on the OO.o Impress during my talk
[11:19] <jeffsch> yoiks!
[11:20] <Burgundavia> ok
[11:20] <Burgundavia> there is no easy way to edit the background
[11:20] <Burgundavia> no button that say "edit background"
[11:22] <jeffsch> just insert graphic, then send to back
[11:23] <Burgundavia> that doesn't place an image on every tile
[11:23] <Burgundavia> I had a thought while I walked to the store about an ideal presentation client
[11:24] <Burgundavia> how to implement it, etc.
[11:24] <Burgundavia> hmm
[11:24] <Burgundavia> I want an image on every slide but the first
[11:25] <jeffsch> can you not just create a slide with the background you want and then duplicate it x number of times?
[11:26] <jeffsch> also, there must be a way of creating a template slide...
[11:27] <Burgundavia> there is
[11:27] <Burgundavia> but I don't want to apply it to the first slid
[11:30] <jeffsch> no problem. in bottom left corner, is the "master view" icon
[11:30] <jeffsch> click on it. add graphic.
[11:30] <Burgundavia> I did that
[11:30] <Burgundavia> now I don't want it to apply to the title screen
[11:31] <jeffsch> then, on first page of presentation, override graphic with blank screen
[11:31] <jeffsch> or text box, or whatever
[11:31] <Burgundavia> ok
[11:32] <Burgundavia> still too much work to do that
[11:34] <jeffsch> bah. typical lazy canadian.
[11:34] <Burgundavia> hey!
[11:34] <jeffsch> speaking of lazy canadians...
[11:35] <jeffsch> I have to go and lay about amy dentist's chair for a couple hours :(
[11:35] <Burgundavia> hmm
[11:35] <Burgundavia> need to do that sometime sson
[11:36] <jeffsch> i'm getting a root canal. see you later.