[12:03] <jnoon> anyone except me have any minior font/encoding issues with ubuntu?
[12:05] <bhna> by
[12:15] <kkathman> Tm_T: Did someone want to know something about gimpshop?
[12:15] <bc> jnoon, I have an encoding problem also, but it only appears when I look at man pages.  I get boxes and odd characters at the ends of lines- replacing hyphens, I think.  Don't know why
[12:16] <bc> oop, he's gone
[12:16] <Tm_T> kkathman: yes, don't remember who
[12:17] <kkathman> hey closure :)
[12:17] <kkathman> ahh ok...sorry was on the phone with a client
[12:17] <closure> hey kkathman 
[12:18] <kkathman> actually once you get the gimpshop code, its fairly straightforward, but I could give them a list of things that they need to apt-get beforehand to save them some time
[12:20] <Tm_T> :)
[12:20] <cartel_> hey all :)
[12:20] <kkathman> so what have you been up to lately Tm_T ?
[12:21] <kkathman> howdy cartel_  :)
[12:21] <closure> wonder what old GW is gonna say tonight
[12:21] <Tm_T> hmm, just little depressed
[12:21] <closure> "i'm gonna run this country into the ground"
[12:21] <Tm_T> =)
[12:21] <Tm_T> GW?
[12:21] <aseigo_> george w bush
[12:22] <Tm_T> huh
[12:22] <kkathman> Tm_T: sorry to hear that...if its any help, you sure are a great help around here and always willing to help people without being snotty :)
[12:22] <closure> Tm_T, you know the monkey looking bastard who is president of the usa
[12:22] <Tm_T> closure: I know, and his not just looks like a monkey ;)
[12:23] <closure> Tm_T, you don't have to tell me twice
[12:23] <Tm_T> =)
[12:23] <Tm_T> kkathman: I'm glad to hear I can help
[12:23] <aseigo_> either of you americans? =)
[12:23] <Tm_T> aseigo_: nope
[12:23] <kkathman> yep
[12:24] <closure> aseigo_, i am
[12:24] <cartel_> hey aseigo_, u a kubuntu user now ? :)
[12:24] <Tm_T> aseigo_: I'm from Finland
[12:24] <aseigo_> cartel_: playing with it for possible use for a client.
[12:24] <aseigo_> cartel_: you see my last blog entry?
[12:24] <cartel_> aseigo_: high powered linux consultant
[12:24] <cartel_> aseigo_: i dont read your blog but i should.. url? blogs.kde.org ?
[12:24] <aseigo_> lol ... something like that =)
[12:25] <aseigo_> cartel_: planetkde.org
[12:25] <aseigo_> cartel_: or directly, aseigo.blogspot.com ... 
[12:25] <kkathman> the more links, the better
[12:25] <kkathman> hehe
[12:26] <kkathman> even if they are hidden :)
[12:26] <kkathman> if you are into SEO kinds of things that is
[12:26] <kkathman> lol
[12:26] <kkathman> awwww aseigo_ you dont like the sandbox?
[12:26] <kkathman> hehe
[12:26] <kkathman> like anyone does :)
[12:27] <aseigo_> well, gg:seigo used to be dominated by the japenese (and a german shepard dog)
[12:27] <cartel_> lol asiego, nice :) "i wish Microsoft would understand the opportunities available to them if they only accepted the realities of the desktop and it's current direction (e.g. away from them)."
[12:27] <aseigo_> but i've slowly taken it over during the last 2 years or so ... until this last week when the akido guy took the #1 spot again
[12:27] <aseigo_> damn him. damn him and his flying kicks of akido death.
[12:27] <aseigo_> cartel_: =)
[12:27] <closure> well looks like mozilla is going to be testy today
[12:28] <kkathman> I tend to like the idea of Google threatenting Microsoft now...get MS fighting on another front :)
[12:28] <closure> why is it always something
[12:28] <cartel_> aseigo_: lots of personal stuff here.. do you want M$ to kidnap your kid to get u to work for them?
[12:28] <aseigo_> cartel_: that presentation was a real eye-openner. both because of how subtle (= well practiced) their FUD has become, and to show just how worried they really are (even if they aren't willing to change in response to that)
[12:28] <cartel_> yes, its funny to watch their doublethink
[12:28] <cartel_> especially in the "Windows Server System" ads
[12:29] <aseigo_> haha.. if they took Peyton to redmon, he'd just throw in a knoppix disk and IM me with his location ;)
[12:29] <aseigo_> there's actually less personal info in my blog than there used to be, actually ...
[12:30] <cartel_> aseigo_, does he carry a dnstunnel-enabled knoppix? :p how is he going to get through the isa servers ;)
[12:30] <aseigo_> now that people actually read it ;) i've tried to keep it a bit more tech oriented... 
[12:30] <kkathman> my blog is always too political I think :)
[12:30] <aseigo_> cartel_: oh yeah, he's a mad hacker. keeps a credit card sized CD burned with a live linux distro on it in his shoe ;)
[12:30] <aseigo_> kkathman: url?
[12:31] <kkathman> aseigo_: www.xanga.com/korkster
[12:31] <Tm_T> ok, tell me a powerful *html editor
[12:31] <Tm_T> wysiwyg thank you ;p
[12:32] <kkathman> if you are a Far Right Wing conservative, you wont care for it much
[12:32] <Tm_T> =)
[12:32] <cartel_> aseigo_: u should have gotten up and rebutted all their points
[12:32] <Tm_T> just want test different apps
[12:33] <aseigo_> cartel_: oh, i kept him honest. he actually skipped past several slides completely
[12:33] <Tm_T> is Quanta plus the only one?
[12:33] <aseigo_> cartel_: several people came up after the event and shook my hand to thank me for coming out ;)
[12:33] <kkathman> Im thinking about trying a different flavor of Linux on one of my servers...not because I dislike Ubuntu, but to just look at something new...suggestions?
[12:33] <aseigo_> Tm_T: no... there is Quanta.. there is also *thinks* Nvu
[12:34] <Tm_T> ?
[12:34] <kkathman> Quanta Plus is actually not that bad
[12:34] <aseigo_> kkathman: what have you tried already
[12:34] <Tm_T> kkathman: Debian in server!
[12:34] <kkathman> aseigo_: uhm.. RH9, FC3 (very briefly), Mandrake, Libranet
[12:34] <aseigo_> kkathman: SUSE.
[12:34] <aseigo_> kkathman: SUSE is very nice.
[12:35] <cartel_> i hate suse
[12:35] <Riddell> aseigo_: morning.  remember I'm on austrlian time
[12:35] <cartel_> ;)
[12:35] <kkathman> problem with SUSE tho, I thought, was that you cant really get a full distro, cuz they only sell commerical
[12:35] <aseigo_> Riddell: so wake up earlier. really, what's more important? chatting with me on irc or sleeping? pfft. PRIORITIES! ;)
[12:35] <aseigo_> Riddell: how's the conf?
[12:35] <kkathman> the full SuSE that is
[12:35] <kkathman> hey Riddell :)
[12:35] <aseigo_> kkathman: no... just do an ftp install.. i do them all teh time
[12:35] <Tm_T> Riddell o/
[12:36] <aseigo_> kkathman: go grab the boot.iso from the ftp server, burn it (it's like 60MB for 9.2) and go from there...
[12:36] <kkathman> ahh ok
[12:36] <aseigo_> kkathman: remember to jot down the address of the mirror you grab it from for use during installation
[12:36] <kkathman> ok will do
[12:36] <aseigo_> Riddell: have you seen my last blog entry?
[12:36] <Riddell> aseigo_: conference is good
[12:36] <Riddell> havn't seen last blog entry
[12:37] <aseigo_> Riddell: ok. go take a looky and that'll save me lots of typing ;)
[12:37] <kkathman> aseigo_: do you think SuSE will run on a minimalist machine...P2 450, 128MB RAM ?
[12:37] <kkathman> FC3 is marginal on that
[12:37] <aseigo_> kkathman: yep..
[12:37] <Riddell> un oh, aseigo_ tries kubuntu, now we're in trouble
[12:37] <kkathman> aseigo_: kewl thanks man
[12:37] <aseigo_> Riddell: haha... dum dum DUM!
[12:37] <cartel_> aseigo_: sounds like u have problems with the women :o
[12:38] <Tm_T> kkathman: just stick on Debian
[12:38] <cartel_> Riddell: we should be honored
[12:38] <aseigo_> cartel_: this month has not been kind. =)
[12:38] <cartel_> aseigo_: in your opinion what is the best kde-friendly distro?
[12:38] <kkathman> Whys that Tm_T  ?
[12:38] <aseigo_> though a woman i met in hawaii in january keeps emailing me ... =) that's good
[12:38] <aseigo_> cartel_: "best" ... in which way?
[12:38] <Tm_T> kkathman: I wouldn't even consider any other in server
[12:38] <cartel_> aseigo_: most integrated?
[12:38] <aseigo_> cartel_: SUSE
[12:39] <cartel_> aseigo_: are they your employer?
[12:39] <aseigo_> cartel_: YAST and KDE and their general packaging intelligence is probably the slickest thing out there right now
[12:39] <aseigo_> cartel_: no
[12:39] <kkathman> lol
[12:39] <cartel_> aseigo_: why not? because they cant have both you and miguel? ;)
[12:39] <Riddell> aseigo_: you may be interested in http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuRoadmap
[12:40] <cartel_> aseigo_: it seems funny to have suse, which is kde, and ximian, which is gnome... cool but funny
[12:40] <aseigo_> cartel_: haha .. i can only imagine me and miguel working down the hall from each other =)
[12:40] <Riddell> aseigo_: tabbar at the top on konsole is to match konqueror and other tab bars (but not I note koshell 1.4)
[12:40] <cartel_> aseigo_: it seems very lame that miguel and havoc have high profile positions in linux vendors but not you
[12:41] <aseigo_> Riddell: you do understand why that one is on the bottom, right? like konversation? =)
[12:41] <Riddell> aseigo_: didn't remember to make a kubuntu theme I certainly should do
[12:41] <Riddell> aseigo_: yeah, I guess so
[12:41] <aseigo_> it's where your eyes rest most of the time =)
[12:42] <Riddell> kynaptic is crap, we know this much
[12:42] <aseigo_> who is working on it?
[12:42] <aseigo_> and how much of a fork of synaptic is it?
[12:42] <Riddell> aseigo_: nobody, that's why it's crap, I hope to work on Kapture instead
[12:42] <kkathman> aseigo_: would you suggest the 9.3 SuSE ?
[12:42] <aseigo_> ah .. i see.
[12:42] <Riddell> it's in the same repository as synaptic
[12:42] <aseigo_> kkathman: it's not up on ftp yet
[12:42] <cartel_> kynaptic is written in python yes
[12:42] <cartel_> i should hack it
[12:42] <kkathman> ahh ok..only 9.2 then
[12:42] <cartel_> maybe its not worth it
[12:43] <Riddell> cartel_: no it's not
[12:43] <cartel_> it looks like a pyqt app
[12:43] <kkathman> I just went to the page and they have a download link tho...perhaps not FTP
[12:43] <Riddell> as are the menus.. no quit button
[12:43] <aseigo_> yep
[12:43] <aseigo_> it allows you to exit w/out "committing" changes ("commit"? augh)
[12:44] <Riddell> good ideas with the konqueror about page, I spend enough time on the KDE 3.4 about page that i didn't want to spoil it though :)
[12:44] <aseigo_> it has a modal dialog which should probably just replace the main tree view when it's installing, etc.. but yeah... blah.. kapture.. let me see.
[12:44] <aseigo_> Riddell: i was sitting down with it and here are my thoughts on about: in kubuntu.. do with them as you will =)
[12:44] <aseigo_> the 3 rows of icons:
[12:44] <aseigo_> Home                     Trash
[12:44] <Riddell> aseigo_: with kcontrol I'm seriously considering using systempreferences instead
[12:44] <aseigo_> Network                Remote
[12:44] <kkathman> aseigo_: 3.2G DVD...that sound right?
[12:45] <aseigo_> Install Software           Settings (<-- which just launch kcontrol directly)
[12:45] <kkathman> seems big to me
[12:45] <aseigo_> kkathman: that's the 9.3 DVD, yes.. but it's missing a lot of packages. it's more of a preview than anything
[12:45] <Riddell> aseigo_: Network and Remote?
[12:45] <aseigo_> kkathman: you want the 9.2 boot.iso .. it'll be  in suse/x86/9.2/boot/boot.iso
[12:45] <Tm_T> sorry guys but I have to sleep ->
[12:46] <kkathman> ahhh ok
[12:46] <aseigo_> Riddell: sorry... my bad.. Storage and Network/Remote
[12:46] <aseigo_> Tm_T: g'nite man
[12:46] <aseigo_> and Install Software would launch kynaptic kapture...
[12:46] <kkathman> aseigo_: boot-20041129.iso ?
[12:46] <Riddell> aseigo_: I think there should be a link to a Welcome to Kubuntu help document too
[12:47] <aseigo_> and yeah. ... would be ++cool if the about: screen looked like the kubuntu web site =) use those spanky tabs ... one for the starting points, intro, tips, and the kubuntu home page
[12:47] <aseigo_> Riddell: that would belong in the tabbar, no?
[12:47] <Riddell> which tab bar?
[12:47] <aseigo_> oh, right.. how the HELL do i get the kubuntu help that i saw install?
[12:47] <aseigo_> Riddell: well, assuming you took the top tab bar from kubuntu.org and made that the top of the about: page
[12:48] <Riddell> there is no kubuntu help now
[12:48] <Riddell> ah yes, that rab bar
[12:48] <Riddell> tab bar
[12:48] <aseigo_> er, the ubuntu help.. sorry.. .the ubuntu dos
[12:48] <aseigo_> er, docs
[12:48] <aseigo_> oh.. and what do you think about shipping a "more usable" window buttons layout?
[12:48] <Riddell> /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs/about-ubuntu-html/index.html
[12:48] <KaiL> aseigo_: more usable?
[12:48] <aseigo_> [s]  == spacer ...
[12:49] <aseigo_> X [s] [s] [s] [s]  Menu <Title, left aligned> <?> [s] [s]  Min Max
[12:49] <aseigo_> try it =)
[12:49] <Riddell> aseigo_: could be controvertial, even Mac OS has copies the windows 95 layout
[12:49] <KaiL> aseigo_: bad
[12:49] <KaiL> people expect x on the right
[12:51] <KaiL> is it really required to install all that python stuff on a default installation?=
[12:51] <aseigo_> well, in osX it's on the left.. but.. whatever
[12:51] <cartel_> KaiL: ubuntu uses lots of python so yes
[12:52] <cartel_> aseigo_: u learned python yet?
[12:52] <KaiL> aseigo_: but there are way more people coming from windows
[12:52] <aseigo_> cartel_: god no
[12:52] <KaiL> cartel_: if any app requires python, ok
[12:52] <aseigo_> cartel_: at least not enough to be profficient.. i've hacked on and read a bit of python, and i can understand it.. but yeah, no desire to get good at it =)
[12:52] <cartel_> KaiL: internal stuff uses python
[12:52] <cartel_> KaiL: pre/postinst etc
[12:52] <KaiL> but why does it need to install python-addons which are not required by anything on the disk
[12:53] <Tm_T> oh, no I'm not gonna sleep!
[12:53] <KaiL> cartel_: so these packages should have that and only that python-module on it's depend list
[12:53] <Tm_T> I start to make an alpha of my homepage =)
[12:53] <cartel_> KaiL: im sorry? its the same as debian with perl
[12:53] <KaiL> doesn't make that better
[12:54] <Tm_T> ?
[12:54] <aseigo_> btw, the choice of conversation as a default irc client is .... interesting. the fact i HAD an irc client by default was interesting =)
[12:54] <KaiL> kubuntu-desktop directly depends on packages like "python-musicbrainz" (whatever that is..)
[12:54] <KaiL> THAT is imho a bad idea
[12:54] <Riddell> aseigo_: interesting in which ways?
[12:54] <Tm_T> irssi <3
[12:54] <cartel_> KaiL: why?
[12:55] <KaiL> cartel_: because either that package also needs it directly (which I don't belive in) or this dependency breaks with the rule "only install what's needed"
[12:55] <cartel_> KaiL: kubuntu-desktop depends on amarok which uses musicbrainz
[12:56] <KaiL> so amarok _may_ depend on "python-musicbrainz", if it needs that
[12:56] <cartel_> KaiL: its to give the musicbrainz feature by default
[12:56] <cartel_> not depend, optional
[12:56] <KaiL> it doesn't btw.
[12:57] <cartel_> so you would like a stripped down distro that only installs minimal packages and lets you choose exactly what you want yes?
[12:57] <KaiL> no
[12:57] <cartel_> like sarge netinst/debootstrap?
[12:57] <Tm_T> Debian Sarge <3
[12:58] <KaiL> I want dependencies, which depend on something, because it is needed or maybe can be used directly by this package
[12:58] <cartel_> well afaict, the spirit of kubuntu is to give a nice desktop, and to do that it uses lots of python
[12:58] <KaiL> but NOT depends on something which might be used by any package this package depends on
[01:00] <KaiL> if amarok depends on this "python-musicbrainz", as it makes use of it
[01:00] <cartel_> it doesnt depend :) its optional, the point of including it is to give the functionality by default
[01:01] <KaiL> it doesn't even suggest :)
[01:01] <Tm_T> :)
[01:02] <darkaudit> cartel_: and even then, musicbrainz is broken. Or actually tunepimp... they forgot to compile in mp3 support
[01:02] <Tm_T> oh
[01:02] <cartel_> darkaudit: it works fine from amarok :)
[01:02] <Tm_T> amaroK <3
[01:02] <Tm_T> ok, too much love for one night =)
[01:02] <Tm_T> but I like it
[01:02] <darkaudit> cartel_: I had to recompile libtunepimp-bin to get amaroK or Juk to get the ID3 info off the net...
[01:03] <nmorse> Hey, why doesn't the icon size in Konqueror change?
[01:03] <cartel_> darkaudit: did you reportbug?
[01:03] <darkaudit> cartel_: yep
[01:04] <cartel_> what i would like to see fixed is kdevelop :o
[01:04] <KaiL> Riddell: your oppinion about that python-flood?
[01:04] <Tm_T> darkaudit: !!!!
[01:04] <Riddell> KaiL: which python flood?
[01:05] <KaiL> ...
[01:05] <darkaudit> yes? :)
[01:05] <Tm_T> darkaudit: great song ends a great album :)
[01:05] <KaiL> kubuntu-desktop depends on around 30, maybe more python packages, which might be used by any app
[01:05] <darkaudit> amaroK smart playlists <3
[01:06] <Tm_T> :)
[01:06] <KaiL> for around 99.9% of all users these are only wasted diskspace...
[01:06] <aseigo_k> er, combox
[01:06] <aseigo_k> combos
[01:06] <aseigo_k> Riddell: speaking of media players ... why amaroK, Noatun _and_ juk?
[01:06] <Riddell> KaiL: do you know what brings them in?
[01:06] <Riddell> aseigo_k: noatun isn't installed
[01:07] <KaiL> Riddell: kubuntu-desktop itself, that's the problem...
[01:07] <Riddell> aseigo_k: amarok because it's sexy and juk because it's usable
[01:07] <KaiL> if any app would depend on them, it's ok
[01:07] <Tm_T> and amaroK is still unstable sometimes
[01:07] <KaiL> but a metapackage normally shouldn't depend on libraries imho
[01:07] <Tm_T> aseigo_k: it's in some KDE package?
[01:07] <cartel_> Riddell: apt-cache show kubuntu-desktop
[01:07] <cartel_> KaiL: i actually agree there
[01:08] <cartel_> kaiL: but i dont think its a waste of diskspace
[01:08] <darkaudit> aseigo_k: I switched all my media associations off noatun to either xine or XMMS
[01:08] <aseigo_k> it would be nice to see amaroK come "pre set up" for the user so they don't have to go through the first time wizard ... and yeah... i love juk, but wonder how that fits in with the rest of the app choices (being "one app for one thing" it seems/)
[01:08] <cartel_> an unusual depend is diveintopython
[01:08] <nmorse> Is there any particular reason changing the file manager icon settings in kcontrol does no good?
[01:08] <aseigo_k> Riddell: oh, which reminds me... what would you think about dropping the web browser and file manager panels from kcontrol?
[01:09] <Riddell> aseigo_k: panels?
[01:09] <aseigo_k> Riddell: kcm's
[01:09] <Tm_T> ah, I'm having hard time surfing between two irc clients :p
[01:09] <Tm_T> am I addicted or what?
[01:09] <nmorse> leave the kcm's for Christ's sakes
[01:09] <Riddell> aseigo_k: sounds good
[01:10] <Riddell> nmorse: why?  why not just go through Konqueror->Configure
[01:10] <Riddell> aseigo_k: any thoughts on using systempreferences?
[01:10] <nmorse> I appreciate having one location for everything
[01:10] <aseigo_k> i've never seen THAT before.. was that intentional somehow?
[01:10] <aseigo_k> nmorse: for the webbrowser as well? should kmail's preferences be there too?
[01:11] <Riddell> aseigo_k: I don't see that
[01:11] <aseigo_k> Riddell: heh. neat.
[01:11] <nmorse> No, we have kontact for all the PIM stuff
[01:11] <Riddell> aseigo_k: someone said we should use fading handles on kicker applets.  any thouhts?
[01:11] <Tm_T> yes?
[01:11] <cartel_> the other thing i noticed was "Log out" does not return to kdm
 Riddell: oh, which reminds me... what would you think about dropping the web browser and file manager panels from kcontrol? << +++
[01:12] <nmorse> And why can I not change the file manager icon settings? It says they're changed in Kcontrol -> Appearance and Themes -> Icons -> Advanced
[01:12] <Tm_T> KaiL: you're using Konversation?
[01:12] <Riddell> cartel_: works for me
[01:12] <KaiL> Tm_T: currently xchat, because konversation can't hide servertabs
[01:12] <Tm_T> ok
[01:12] <aseigo_k> Riddell: the konqueror toolbar could use a bit of love too =) kill the lock icon, for instance, and Find... though i'm not sure how "minimal" vs "stock KDE" you are aiming for
[01:13] <Tm_T> KaiL: just guessed from you paste ;)
[01:13] <Riddell> aseigo_k: I'm happy to experiment
[01:13] <Riddell> especially if ideas have any chance of being put back into KDE
[01:13] <Riddell> aseigo_k: and I do hate that lock icon...but pmax might kill me
[01:13] <cartel_> aseigo_: that lock icon should appear in the status bar like rss and kwallet
[01:13] <aseigo_k> Riddell: fading handles... not a bad idea, but you'd want to backport the changes to kdebase/kicker/core/applethandle.cpp for applets with out-of-process elements (like the system tray) otherwise it looks a bit like ass
[01:13] <KaiL> aseigo_: http://moba.linuxfaqs.de/kde34.jpeg THAT is a clean toolbar :)
[01:14] <Riddell> cartel_: it does, and the location bar
[01:14] <aseigo_k> Riddell: does pmax use kubuntu?
[01:14] <KaiL> you can also hide the |, as I did later..
[01:14] <Riddell> aseigo_k: not that I know of
[01:15] <Tm_T> wtf my Quanta plus just crashed :/
[01:15] <Tm_T> not that funny
[01:15] <nmorse> Man, Kubuntu's KDE is cut down beyond belief
[01:15] <Tm_T> ?
[01:15] <KaiL> nmorse: ?
[01:15] <nmorse> Anyway, I still haven't had anyone answer the question regarding the freaking huge icons in Konqueror
[01:16] <aseigo_k> and what do you think about tweaking konq's settings so it's a bit more firefoxy? e.g. new windows in tabs... (maybe even tab bar always shown? nice way to reduce flicker/jumpiness... and if you manage to squeeze the toolbar onto one line you don't take up more space)
[01:16] <Tm_T> smouche <3
[01:16] <Riddell> KaiL: but with that you have a lot of wasted unused space on the toolbar
[01:16] <nmorse> Kubuntu doesn't look like KDE from source or other distros
[01:16] <aseigo_k> and turn on the popup blocker
[01:16] <Tm_T> nmorse: hm, you tried set them in konqui?
[01:16] <KaiL> Riddell: I have my bookmarks right of that :)
[01:16] <nmorse> No way to set icon size in Konqui I've found
[01:16] <Riddell> aseigo_k: absolutly
[01:16] <sladen> /w9n/win 13
[01:16] <nmorse> and the Kcontrol icon settings doesn't work, which is bad
[01:16] <Tm_T> nmorse: there is
[01:16] <Riddell> aseigo_k: new windows are in tabs 
[01:17] <smouche> Hi Tm_T 
[01:17] <Tm_T> nmorse: view -> icon size ->
[01:17] <Tm_T> smouche: how are you?
[01:17] <smouche> good! you?
[01:17] <nmorse> Found it, Tm_T
[01:17] <aseigo_k> Riddell: they open in tabs by default? in 5.04?
[01:17] <Riddell> aseigo_k: I don't see that beastie
[01:17] <Tm_T> ok
[01:18] <Riddell> aseigo_k: think so, try opening Home from the kicker system menu
[01:18] <KaiL> lol, has somebody seen Lipstick and gtk2-engines-qt working  together? :)
[01:18] <aseigo_k> nmorse: oh.. and you don't want to know how big i usually have my icons in konqi ;)
[01:18] <nmorse> But why doesn't the File Manager Icon Size work in KControkl -> Appearance & Themes -> Icons -> Advanced?
[01:18] <aseigo_k> Riddell: nope. new window.
[01:18] <Riddell> aseigo_k: opens in a tab for me
[01:18] <sladen> Riddell: ...my screen has been frozen for the last 5minutes because of the wonderful wifi
[01:18] <aseigo_k> nmorse: what's the icon size in the View menu in konqi say?
[01:19] <Tm_T> nmorse: it worked allright then?
[01:19] <nmorse> It worked from the View menu in Konqui, but the KControl Icons kcm doesn't work
[01:19] <Tm_T> :)
[01:19] <nmorse> Someone should look at that
[01:19] <aseigo_k> Riddell: hm. i haven't touched those settings. this is a brand new install. the only thing i've changed is i just turned on fade out handels on kicker to see that in action and i mucked with the window deco butons
[01:20] <Tm_T> smouche: I have a problem
[01:20] <Riddell> aseigo_k: maybe that's my fault then, I'll mind to investigate that
[01:20] <smouche> what's that, Tm_T?
[01:20] <Riddell> aseigo_k: but with open in tab Konqueror needs to just to the top when a new tab opens
[01:20] <nmorse> I change to Plastik windeco, Keramik style, Keramik White color scheme, Penny Arcade CTS wallpaper
[01:20] <Tm_T> smouche: tell me a decent html editor
[01:20] <KaiL> brb (need to change something here..)
[01:20] <aseigo_k> Riddell: "just to teh top"?
[01:21] <Riddell> s/just/jump/
[01:21] <aseigo_k> Riddell: oh.. and the performance settings... 
[01:21] <smouche> in linux?  I have no idea; anyway, I generally just use a text editor and steal layouts!
[01:21] <Riddell> performance settings?
[01:21] <aseigo_k> Riddell: right.. which is why i usually run with the tab bar always on..
[01:21] <Tm_T> smouche: :)
[01:21] <Tm_T> smouche: I don't remember tags and such
[01:21] <aseigo_k> performance.. konq isn't set to preload on startup and Minimize Memory Usage is the default (if safeish) "Only in file management"
[01:21] <smouche> Tm_T -- I used something in windows called arachnophilia, a java app, rather nice.  But I'm no web designer.
[01:21] <Tm_T> yuk
[01:22] <nmorse> Quanta Plus is the best HTML editor I've ever used
[01:22] <nmorse> On any OS
[01:22] <Tm_T> nmorse: crashes too often :/
[01:22] <nmorse> Lately, I'll agree with you
[01:22] <Tm_T> smouche: I used aranchnophilia ten years ago (?)
[01:23] <KaiL> brb
[01:23] <KaiL> with an empty ~/.kde now...:)
[01:23] <KaiL> let's start flaming:
[01:23] <KaiL> fontsize -> is that made for blinds running 150dpi? :)
[01:23] <Tm_T> haha
[01:23] <Tm_T> YES!
[01:23] <aseigo_k> Riddell: yeah.. the konqi settings could use some work.. they are all pretty vanilla defaults.. things like the "1MB max" for file previews is a bit conservative.. lots of people ask about that in #kde
[01:23] <Tm_T> I have trouble with too large fonts in 100dpi =)
[01:24] <Riddell> aseigo_k: what does Minimize Memory Usage do?
[01:24] <nmorse> Is there a JDK in multiverse?
[01:24] <smouche> can i rave about something I love in konqueror?
[01:24] <aseigo_k> Riddell: it just runs all the konqi windows in one process
[01:24] <KaiL> Tm_T: it's really WAY to big here
[01:24] <aseigo_k> Riddell: so ... if one goes down, they all do.. that's the risk =)
[01:24] <smouche> the tabs, and the fact that, unlike firefox's
[01:24] <aseigo_k> smouche: of course =)
[01:24] <Tm_T> KaiL: stick with 70dpi ;)
[01:24] <KaiL> bad!
[01:24] <KaiL> eh bah!
[01:24] <smouche> I never run out of comfortable space for clicking for a new tab
[01:24] <aseigo_k> underline file names -> off...
[01:25] <Tm_T> KaiL: or 100dpi
[01:25] <smouche> you know what I mean?  In firefox, with say five tabs open, the space narrows, crowds the close button
[01:25] <Tm_T> :)
[01:25] <KaiL> Tm_T: I have 96dpi screen and 100dpi fonts
[01:25] <smouche> that doesn't happen in konqueror -- great design!
[01:25] <KaiL> and the default is huge
[01:25] <Tm_T> KaiL: me too, too large =)
[01:25] <Tm_T> I have to use 8p fonts :p
[01:26] <KaiL> 9p now
[01:26] <_ubuntu> Kubuntu's user interface(KDE) is way more responsive than Ubuntu(gnome), I am on Duron 600, 256MB, GF2 MX200 32MB
[01:26] <KaiL> why is there the right hidebutton on kicker?
[01:26] <nmorse> So you can hide the panel manually
[01:26] <KaiL> hmm
[01:26] <Tm_T> KaiL: remove it if you don't like it?
[01:26] <smouche> KaiL, you can remove that button or put it on the left, or have two
[01:26] <nmorse> Please leave that there at least by default
[01:27] <KaiL> I know I know.. I'm only flaming about the defaults :)
[01:27] <smouche> or make it really small, whatever.  I wish those buttons were transparent, or at least that the blue triangle thing would go away
[01:27] <nmorse> I flamed about huge icons in Konqueror earlier
[01:27] <Riddell> aseigo_k: no comment on systempreferences?
[01:28] <Tm_T> ok, can't follow you fellas, so ->
[01:30] <smouche> see you later Tm_T
[01:30] <nmorse> Why is the clock in HH:MM mode by default instead of pH:MM AMPM?
[01:32] <nmorse> One more thing, why on earth, if there is a perfectly good, free messaging and chatting technology available, with a huge amount of modern clients, does every F/OSS project feel the need to use X-Chat and IRC by default?!! Is there some kind of anti-Jabber movement I don't know about?
[01:33] <aseigo_k> Riddell: sorry.. was busy looking at konq... hrm.. systempreferences... it's a step backwards in a lot of ways.
[01:33] <aseigo_k> Riddell: it would need a good amount of work to get it to where it was useful. mostly to do with re-doing a lot of the panels themselves
[01:34] <Blissex> nmorse: tradition... And IRC is good enough.
[01:34] <Tm_T> irc <3
[01:35] <Riddell> aseigo_k: how is it a step backwards?
[01:35] <Tm_T> I don't think there's better option than irc
[01:36] <nmorse> You know, the phrase "Good enough" is the killer of a lot of good software projects
[01:36] <Tm_T> haha
[01:36] <Tm_T> nmorse: tell me, what would be better choise than irc?
[01:36] <nmorse> Jabber
[01:36] <Tm_T> eh
[01:36] <nmorse> with MUC conference support
[01:37] <Tm_T> hmm
[01:37] <Tm_T> and most *nix people don't use jabber afaik
[01:37] <nmorse> It allows everything done now, including making channels, joining channels, and choosing nicknames
[01:37] <nmorse> and allows IM to boot
[01:37] <aseigo_k> Riddell: the combinations of many of the panels make 0 sense
[01:37] <nmorse> plus transports are possible to IRC, AIM, MSN, and Yahoo if you so desire
[01:38] <Curalton> is there a ubuntu equivalent to packages.debian.org? i want to download the kword + dependencies for a ubuntu box that is offline atm
[01:38] <nmorse> Send file, anything I'm leaving out?
[01:38] <Riddell> aseigo_k: just like kcontrol then, and at least its searchable
[01:38] <aseigo_k> Riddell: you trade off an initial interface that is somewhat nicer for complete hell once you drill down
[01:38] <Tm_T> nmorse: and what is "MUC conference" ?
[01:38] <aseigo_k> kcontrol is searchable too
[01:38] <aseigo_k> no, not like kcontrol at all
[01:38] <nmorse> Multi-User Chat
[01:38] <Tm_T> ok
[01:38] <nmorse> It allows rooms like this one
[01:38] <aseigo_k> s.p. combines 3 or 4 panels at a time often in ways that are just horrible.
[01:38] <nmorse> And both Gnome and KDE include Jabber clients by default
[01:39] <Tm_T> nmorse: so tell me, what advantages does it have what irc not?
[01:39] <pvh> I'd like to get started with my own public key. Can anyone direct me to a good HOWTO? My searches have been fruitless so far.
[01:39] <Riddell> pvh: gpg --gen-key or something similar
[01:39] <aseigo_k> pvh: run kgpg
[01:39] <nmorse> For one thing, IM. For another, a decent interface.
[01:39] <nmorse> Transports
[01:39] <pvh> Thanks!
[01:39] <Tm_T> nmorse: what?!!
[01:40] <aseigo_k> pvh: it will give you a gui for creating a keypair when it starts up the first time
[01:40] <Tm_T> nmorse: there can't be better interface than irssi have!
[01:40] <Riddell> I wonder if amarok can be stipped down to be as simlpe as juk by default with all its fancy features there for those who want them
[01:40] <nmorse> pick a Jabber client
[01:40] <nmorse> there's one for every interface
[01:40] <nmorse> Even Kopete and Gaim have Jabber support
[01:41] <nmorse> Then there's Gabber, Cabber, CenterICQ, Psi, etc.
[01:41] <Tm_T> nmorse: so what's wrong with irc?
[01:41] <Tm_T> you can use irssi, gaim, Konversation, X-Chat ....
[01:42] <nmorse> A) A lack of a way to deal with PMs in a decent manner - like if you want to help one person with a problem without disturbing the whole room
[01:42] <Tm_T> nmorse: /msg me ;)
[01:42] <pvh> aseigo_k: Is there a preferred way to specify multiple emails in the key?
[01:42] <KaiL> do we need underlined texts in konq?
[01:43] <aseigo_k> Riddell: if you use the juk layout, select "All Collection" for the playlist and reorder the toolbar a bit, usre..
[01:43] <Riddell> KaiL: I prefer not having underlined links but a lot of websites do assume it unfortunatly
[01:43] <aseigo_k> pvh: you can add new identities once it's created, yes
[01:44] <KaiL> Riddell: I mean in filemanager mode
[01:44] <aseigo_k> oh, in FM mode.. yeah.. pfft.. get rid of that..
[01:44] <SpookyET> what is the command that tells you memory usage?
[01:44] <Riddell> KaiL: good point
[01:44] <SpookyET> programs/cache
[01:44] <Riddell> SpookyET: free
[01:45] <KaiL> and disable the shit (popups...) in browser mode
[01:45] <closure> anybody use gmailfs?
[01:45] <pvh> aseigo_k: Thanks, now to figure out how to use it with KMail.
[01:45] <pvh> aseigo_k: Have you ever considered using version control on your home directory?
[01:46] <pvh> aseigo_k: It works beautifully.
[01:48] <kkathman> how dare customers cut into my linux time :)
[01:49] <aseigo_k> pvh: yes.. it's nice like that =)
[01:49] <_ubuntu> Hi, in Kubuntu, how do you move a program from desktop 1 to desktop 2? like in gnome, it is CTRL-ALT-ArrowKey
[01:50] <Riddell> _ubuntu: click on top left window menu and To Desktop-> 2
[01:50] <kkathman> _ubuntu: right click the application and look to "move to desktop"
[01:50] <_ubuntu> is there shortcut key though?
[01:51] <kkathman> not that I know of
[01:51] <_ubuntu> kkathman: ic ic....thanks
[01:51] <aseigo_k> Riddell: how open are you to maintaining patches =)
[01:51] <Riddell> aseigo_k: such as what?
[01:51] <aseigo_k> well, actually.. i suppose 5.10 will be based on a 3.5-ish kde?
[01:52] <Riddell> aseigo_k: well, that remains to be seen if KDE ever gets a release schedule
[01:52] <aseigo_k> such as the ability to assign the Home button per profile
[01:52] <Riddell> doesn't sound too hard
[01:52] <aseigo_k> and a new home page.. (some of that is hardcoded IIRC =/)
[01:52] <Riddell> aseigo_k: any idea what turns lets you use this?  http://rohan.bsdnerds.org/Riddell.jpg
[01:53] <aseigo_k> ... and kicker backported from HEAD ;-P (well, once i get the demands attentions bugs worked out)
[01:53] <bettse> I have a intel ipw2100 wireless card, I was using it on gentoo and i'm giving kubuntu a try.  kwifimanger shows it disabled, but a valid ip is shown.  using the file->disable radio togle in kwifi runs 'iwconfig eth0 txpower on', but my card doesn't support txpower.  Can anyone give me suggestions to narrow the cause, or does anyone have experience with this card?
[01:53] <aseigo_k> Riddell: the Lilo integration?
[01:53] <Riddell> aseigo_k: hmm, we use grub
[01:54] <Riddell> aseigo_k: but that image...so cool
[01:54] <KaiL> is it a good idea to have 4 virtual desktops as default?
[01:54] <aseigo_k> yeah, i know =)
[01:54] <aseigo_k> KaiL: how many would you recommend?
[01:54] <bettse> KaiL, it will be fine on any moden (1ghz+) system
[01:54] <kkathman> KaiL: I would love to have more but prolly not as defaults
[01:54] <KaiL> aseigo_: 1 or 2
[01:54] <Tm_T> AERGH! I'm hungry!
[01:55] <Tm_T> feed me please
[01:55] <bettse> KaiL, are you wondering about cpu consumption, or something else?
[01:55] <KaiL> users, which are not common to this feature click on the icon and see all their apps disapearing....
[01:56] <kkathman> KaiL: thats a good point actually, it is funny...they are used to clicking the bottom toolbar (kicker) and yep..the apps disapper
[01:56] <kkathman> disappear I  mean
[01:57] <kkathman> Its because the kicker isnt tied to the desktops which fools some
[01:57] <bettse> does anyone here use a ipw2100 wireless card?
[01:57] <kkathman> One improvement that would be great is if the last step of an installation would remove the CD-ROM deb from the sources.list (or at least comment it out)
[01:57] <aseigo_k> well, if minipager showed nicer previews it woudl be a bit more obvious what it is doing =)
[01:58] <Tm_T> kkathman: <3
[01:58] <kkathman> there I am less than 3 again :)
[01:59] <Tm_T> ;)
[02:00] <closure> oh here we go!
[02:00] <Tm_T> oh, I'm shaking!
[02:00] <Tm_T> maybe I really should eat something =)
[02:00] <kkathman> you should
[02:01] <Tm_T> hmm, but what
[02:01] <Tm_T> don't have any bread :/
[02:01] <KaiL> kkathman: bad idea to remove that line
[02:01] <KaiL> many users don't have a fast internet connection....
[02:01] <closure> look at that jackass's face
[02:01] <Tm_T> :)
[02:01] <kkathman> KaiL:  ok...just that we have lots of questions when people do apt-gets
[02:02] <Tm_T> maybe installer should ask it ;)
[02:03] <Tm_T> "do you think you have fast internet connection an lot of time to wait?"
[02:03] <Tm_T> yes [x]  no [ ] 
[02:03] <kkathman> even so....not everything is on the CD .. so even dialups cant get most things from a cd :)
[02:04] <kkathman> but hey..I didnt have a prob with it..but alot of newbies get frustrated when they cant do an apt-get 
[02:05] <closure> "social security worked in the last century, but the math has changed" since we all know that 2+2 in 1992 equlaed 4 but now in 2005 it equals 5
[02:05] <closure> haha i'm still in #kubuntu
[02:06] <closure> sorry
[02:06] <Tm_T> yes you are ] ;=
[02:06] <kkathman> closure what are you reading?
[02:06] <closure> i'm watching the presidential news conference
[02:06] <kkathman> I was wondering who he was calling a jackass..lol  I was going to be offended :)
[02:08] <kkathman> closure:  I wonder when we changed the math rules... is that what all that "new math" is all about?
[02:09] <Tm_T> ok, in Konsole, I can detach session, is there any way to (re)attach it?
[02:10] <closure> kkathman, i guess
[02:10] <KaiL> Tm_T: seams to be gone, in 3.3 there was...
[02:10] <Tm_T> KaiL: ok, sad
[02:11] <kkathman> Tm_T: I have never found a way to re-attache
[02:11] <Tm_T> ----------
[02:12] <Tm_T> a big minus for that then :)
[02:15] <aseigo_k> Riddell: what was the name of the non-kynaptic package manager GUI you mentioned ealrier?
[02:16] <Diablo-D3> synaptic? ;)
[02:16] <aseigo_k> Diablo-D3: heh. no
[02:17] <Tm_T> kpackage?
[02:18] <Tm_T> =)
[02:21] <KaiL> Riddell: that dropdown in the logout only works with grub?
[02:21] <KaiL> or with lilo too?
[02:22] <aseigo_k> i believe it _only_ works with lilo, actually
[02:22] <closure> Tm_T, under the kmenu goto switch user
[02:23] <closure> and there should be your other session listed there
[02:23] <KaiL> aseigo_: then how to enable that?
[02:23] <aseigo_k> KaiL: in the Login Manager control panel.
[02:24] <Tm_T> closure: I mean Konsole sessions ;)
[02:24] <Riddell> aseigo_k: Kapture
[02:24] <Tm_T> closure: totally different thing
[02:24] <Riddell> aseigo_k: in kdeplayground-something/debian
[02:24] <closure> Tm_T, oh ok
[02:24] <Riddell> aseigo_k: likely doesn't compile or work
[02:24] <closure> i thought you meant KDE sessions i was sorta skim reading
[02:25] <Tm_T> np
[02:25] <Riddell> KaiL: well it doesn't seem to work with grub
[02:26] <KaiL> bad...
[02:26] <Riddell> aseigo_k: we also want to have an applications based "package manager"
[02:26] <Riddell> similar to gnome-app-install but nicer
[02:26] <KaiL> another argument to stay with lilo :)
[02:27] <KaiL> btw. what was the way to get lilo? installing on xfs?
[02:30] <kkathman> hey incubii  :)
[02:30] <Bicchi> does anyone know how to setup a dual monitor system. i now have it but the other monitor is cloned instead of a big desktop area.
[02:30] <aseigo_k> Riddell: heh.. ok... screenshots anywhere?
[02:30] <aseigo_k> Riddell: of kapture, that is
[02:31] <aseigo_k> Riddell: and when you say "applications based", you mean osmething wher eyou can click "spreadsheet" and it installs <whatever spreadsheet>?
[02:31] <incubii> heya
[02:31] <incubii> sounds like klik for knoppix
[02:32] <kkathman> Ive heard decent things about knoppix :)
[02:32] <incubii> i worked on the early HDD installer
[02:32] <incubii> i was that impressed by it
[02:32] <incubii> :D
[02:32] <incubii> i use it all the time at schools, libraries, net cafes
[02:32] <kkathman> Ive got a free disk for Knoppix I never used actually
[02:32] <KaiL> aseigo_: and if you try to open a file no app on the disk can open, this tool pops up and gives you a list of apps, which can :)
[02:32] <incubii> that is of course unless i want to be naughty and then i use auditor
[02:33] <nmorse> I used it in an all Windows lab at a Cali Tech Conference this summer
[02:33] <nmorse> saved my life
[02:33] <KaiL> Knoppix is a nice distribution, but it has 2 very bad things:
[02:33] <KaiL> 1. it has too must shit (sorry) like xemacs or development stuff installed
[02:34] <incubii> i used it to setup a temporary net cafe
[02:34] <incubii> 1 cd and the rest netbooting
[02:34] <incubii> yeah i agree it doesnt need the development stuff
[02:34] <KaiL> 2. Klaus Knopper is paranoid, he doesn't even put the nvidia driver on the disk, because the compression could be to much modification.....
[02:35] <incubii> yeah thats why you use a remaster
[02:35] <KaiL> now compare that to ubuntus "linux-restricted-modules" :)
[02:35] <incubii> like moprhix, overclockix, kanotix
[02:35] <KaiL> kanotix is made by an asshole...
[02:35] <Riddell> aseigo_k: no screenshots of kapture I'm afraid
[02:35] <KaiL> I knew him from the knoppix chat - never saw such an arrogant person
[02:35] <Riddell> aseigo_k: yes, something like that
[02:36] <KaiL> who doesn't care at all about licences btw.
[02:36] <incubii> yes i know 
[02:36] <incubii> but it does provide what i need
[02:36] <incubii> although probably illegally
[02:36] <KaiL> Riddell: this kapture is like a ghost...
[02:36] <KaiL> no package, no screenshots, no download - is there any line of code already written? ;)
[02:36] <Diablo-D3> aseigo_: hah
[02:37] <Diablo-D3> aseigo_: Im still working up a blog entry over ubuntu
[02:37] <incubii> lol
[02:38] <Diablo-D3> I just cant find anything worth saying that hasnt already been said
[02:38] <incubii> i often thought of remastering knoppix myself to make it more desktop
[02:38] <Diablo-D3> incubii: ... then you'd have the ubuntu live cd.
[02:38] <incubii> rip out all that dev shit as its not needed
[02:38] <Diablo-D3> hell, ubuntu killed knoppix.
[02:38] <incubii> i havent tried them since warty
[02:39] <KaiL> I once had the Idea to replace that devel shit with more localisations
[02:39] <Diablo-D3> (for the record, ubuntu uses a highly modified version of morphix)
[02:39] <KaiL> you can add all localisations from everywhere in the EU, if you remove that and it still works :)
[02:39] <incubii> oh it uses morphix
[02:40] <incubii> wel in that case i might go add to the love that is ubuntu live cd
[02:40] <incubii> :D
[02:40] <incubii> do you know if it includes a HDD installer?
[02:40] <Diablo-D3> the cds come in a pair
[02:40] <Diablo-D3> one is a live cd, the other is an installer
[02:41] <incubii> ill take that as no the live cd can not be installed from
[02:41] <Tm_T> propably not easily
[02:41] <KaiL> there's a todo entry for that somewhere in the UDO-wiki :)
[02:42] <incubii> installing from a live cd is pretty easy
[02:42] <Diablo-D3> incubii: installing the live cd is pretty silly
[02:42] <Diablo-D3> its setup specifically to be a live cd
[02:42] <incubii> supporting multiple OS's makes it a lil more challenging
[02:43] <Tm_T> Diablo-D3: hmm, so why it can't include network installer?
[02:43] <aseigo_k> Riddell: http://aseigo.bddf.ca/dms/2/181_dotKDEKubuntu.tar.gz <-- various ~/.kde tweakings
[02:44] <aseigo_k> Riddell: including sidebars for file management and web browsing that may make more sense
[02:44] <incubii> have to wait till im at work again to download the live cd
[02:44] <Diablo-D3> Tm_T: because you arent paying for the discs
[02:44] <Diablo-D3> Mark is
[02:44] <Diablo-D3> and mark says "HERE! HAVE TWO!"
[02:44] <Riddell> aseigo_k: cool, will take a keek at it
[02:44] <aseigo_k> Riddell: it would be nice to eventually set up gpg and kwallet for a user automagically =)
[02:44] <Tm_T> I say "gimme twenty!"
[02:45] <Tm_T> :)
[02:45] <Riddell> aseigo_k: yes, been thinking about that.  do you think it's safe/possible to use the system password?
[02:47] <KaiL> Mark should spend me a testing PC :)
[02:47] <aseigo_k> Riddell: yes, i think it is..
[02:47] <KaiL> maybe a i915 based laptop, they are really hard nuts *gg*
[02:47] <aseigo_k> Riddell: of course, i'm the person who uses no password on kwallet ;)
[02:47] <aseigo_k> Riddell: but i don't see why the system password wouldn't be good enough for kwallet
[02:48] <Diablo-D3> what really sucks is I ordered one pair of ubuntu cds
[02:48] <Riddell> I set kwallet to never close (unless reboot)
[02:49] <Diablo-D3> and I got 5
[02:49] <Diablo-D3> and I have no clue what to do with them
[02:49] <Riddell> I should talk to the ubuntu security dude about that
[02:49] <KaiL> Diablo-D3: give to your friends
[02:50] <Diablo-D3> almost all the people that I know that can run linux already do
[02:50] <Diablo-D3> and the rest there is no way in hell I'm supporting them
[02:50] <Tm_T> Oh yes! This one really works!
[02:50] <KaiL> so get them away from SuSE, Fedora or MDK :)
[02:51] <Diablo-D3> no, most of them run slackware or debian
[02:51] <Tm_T> ok, I use bluefish atm then :)
[02:51] <aseigo_k> bluefish? uck.
[02:51] <KaiL> debian users are easy to catch :)
[02:52] <aseigo_k> Tm_T: i take it you really didn't like Quanta?
[02:52] <Tm_T> Debian <3
[02:52] <Tm_T> aseigo_k: crashes too often
[02:52] <KaiL> ...as kubuntu is debian, a much enhanced debian
[02:53] <Diablo-D3> well
[02:53] <Diablo-D3> it _is_ debian
[02:53] <Tm_T> not really
[02:53] <Diablo-D3> debian developers are all jumping ship for ubuntu
[02:53] <Tm_T> it is debian based
[02:53] <aseigo_k> Tm_T: using the GUI editor, or the regular editor, or previewing, or?
[02:53] <KaiL> quanta is slow+unstable, bluefish is gtk
[02:53] <Diablo-D3> the only ones left are ones that we really dont want over here anyhow
[02:53] <Tm_T> aseigo_k: just testing really
[02:53] <Riddell> ian|static: just saw your wiki page, welcome along 
[02:54] <Tm_T> aseigo_k: I try to find the html editor for me
[02:54] <Tm_T> hm
[02:54] <KaiL> Diablo-D3: you think, (k)ubuntu will replace debian some day soon?
[02:54] <Diablo-D3> KaiL: it pretty much already has
[02:54] <Tm_T> KaiL: gtk isnt that bad ;)
[02:54] <Tm_T> Diablo-D3: not really
[02:55] <Tm_T> in server use
[02:55] <KaiL> I don't know...
[02:55] <Diablo-D3> more and more users are switching to ubuntu
[02:55] <Diablo-D3> Tm_T: server use is a different market
[02:55] <Tm_T> yes :)
[02:55] <Diablo-D3> so I'm not talking about them
[02:55] <Riddell> Diablo-D3: actually I've noticed more gentoo developers than debian developers
[02:55] <Diablo-D3> and the server use market is totally fucked
[02:55] <KaiL> for desktops yes, as debian is "outdated by design"
[02:55] <Diablo-D3> like, take in the fact that a lot of companies _require_ vender support
[02:56] <Diablo-D3> by require, I mean they must purchace a product. With money.
[02:56] <nmorse> I'd say as long as Ubuntu relies on Debian, it can't replace it
[02:56] <Diablo-D3> You know, the idiot phbs who buy redhat
[02:56] <nmorse> Now they have Novell too
[02:56] <Diablo-D3> so the server market probably will never be dominated by a real distro
[02:56] <Diablo-D3> so I'm just going to safely ignore servers
[02:56] <aseigo_k> i work with such people every day
[02:57] <aseigo_k> and there are real reasons why they do what they do
[02:57] <aseigo_k> it's not that they are stupid or incapable or any of those things
[02:57] <Diablo-D3> aseigo_k: none of which I accept.
[02:57] <KaiL> at least in #ubuntu are 500 people, in #debian "only" 750 (they were ~1000 not far ago!)
[02:57] <aseigo_k> well, i suppose we each choose whether to accept reality or not.
 oh, but its great to have support! <bofh> You do realize that I know more than all of redhat combined, right?
[02:57] <aseigo_k> Tm_T: do you remember which actions caused crashes in quanta?
[02:58] <Diablo-D3> So, its either a) buy support b) hire an onsite tech
[02:58] <aseigo_k> phb: yes, and when we can your ass over your shite attitude, we can replace you quite nicely
[02:58] <Tm_T> aseigo_k: I added some tags and then POW ;)
[02:58] <Diablo-D3> bofh: *pushes phb out the window*
[02:58] <aseigo_k> Tm_T: crazy... 
[02:58] <Tm_T> aseigo_k: you tell me =)
[02:58] <KaiL> nmorse: maybe deian will get reduced to sid - everything else is done by ubuntu and another such project for servers...
[02:59] <nmorse> It would be neat, but Testing has a place
[02:59] <Diablo-D3> btw, ubuntu may not kill debian
[03:00] <KaiL> Diablo-D3: as I said - replace...
[03:00] <Diablo-D3> it may either swollow it, or reduce it to a server oriented debian-based distro
[03:00] <nmorse> I honestly think Debian will continue to survive for servers and as the father of Debian-derived distros
[03:00] <KaiL> debian will be some kind of "meta distribution"
[03:00] <nmorse> It already is a meta-distro with a bunch of sub-distros built in
[03:00] <nmorse> like debian jr. and debian-edu
[03:00] <KaiL> yes
[03:00] <Diablo-D3> heh
[03:00] <Diablo-D3> so what is ubuntu then?
[03:00] <Diablo-D3> debian-desktop?
[03:01] <nmorse> A debian-derived distro
[03:01] <KaiL> yes :)
[03:01] <nmorse> A wholly separate project based on the original
[03:01] <KaiL> and there comes one point, which might be interesting for comercial vendors:
[03:01] <KaiL> all these distributions share one binary compatible package database!
[03:03] <KaiL> you can mix ubuntu and debian as much as you want, it'll never break
[03:03] <KaiL> ever tried that with suse + redhat? :)
[03:03] <Diablo-D3> this is why I wish I could get rid of redhat and company
[03:03] <Diablo-D3> yeah exactly
[03:03] <Diablo-D3> rpm is a broken concept
[03:03] <KaiL> rpm is the hell itself
[03:03] <Diablo-D3> apt-get/dpkg was almost designed for cool shit like this
[03:03] <nmorse> rpm is hell, but mixing Ubuntu and Debian packages can cause problems
[03:03] <Diablo-D3> I dare you to try apt-get... rpm-get... rpm-whatever upgrade to suse from redhat
[03:04] <nmorse> I once "upgraded" Linspire to Debian to see if it could be done
[03:04] <nmorse> After all, they're apt packages, right? Took 3 hours to sort out dependencies for KDE alone
[03:04] <Diablo-D3> lol
[03:04] <nmorse> And Ubuntu's binaries are built separate from Debian's, so who knows what could happen
[03:04] <Diablo-D3> sid -> ubuntu worked fine for me, btw
[03:05] <StR_gt> Hi all
[03:05] <nmorse> Sid can go to anything quite easily, as can any whole conversion
[03:05] <nmorse> It's partial mixing that produces problems
[03:05] <nmorse> And apt-pinning is only a partial solution
[03:05] <Tm_T> hmm
[03:05] <StR_gt> anyone else having problems with amarok with the the playlist of internet radios?
[03:05] <Tm_T> I think Debian stable has it's place
[03:06] <Tm_T> why all my friends are offline :/
[03:07] <Tm_T> must be the time of day or something
[03:08] <KaiL> nmorse: problems like "apps doesn't work, because libs are missing"?
[03:08] <KaiL> anybody ever tried "synce-kde" in reallife?
[03:08] <KaiL> nmorse: and?
[03:08] <StR_gt> synce?
[03:09] <KaiL> *dang* hmm, someone sits on my line
[03:09] <KaiL> to much MS around? ;)
[03:09] <KaiL> Diablo-D3: sarge -> ubuntu worked well here too
[03:09] <KaiL> I have downgraded some packages manually to have "a real ubuntu" :)
[03:09] <Diablo-D3> and aseigo's setup worked afaik
[03:09] <KaiL> StR_gt: windows ce connectivity
[03:09] <Diablo-D3> yeah, Im not too worried about downgrading
[03:09] <Tm_T> :)
[03:09] <KaiL> Diablo-D3: does sudo work for you?
[03:10] <Diablo-D3> yes
[03:10] <KaiL> including asking for a password...
[03:10] <Diablo-D3> but its not setup from ubuntu
[03:10] <KaiL> it didn't ask here the first time...
[03:10] <Diablo-D3> so my sudo is passowrdless, and I still have root.
[03:11] <KaiL> I have root and a sudo asking for a PW :)
[03:11] <Diablo-D3> probably because your sudo isnt setup correctly
[03:12] <KaiL> hm?
[03:12] <Diablo-D3> add yourself to /etc/sudoers
[03:12] <Diablo-D3> username  ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL
[03:12] <KaiL> it behaves the same as in a "real" kubuntu
[03:12] <Diablo-D3> and you need to do this with visudo
[03:12] <Diablo-D3> well, you're the one bitching about the password =P
[03:13] <KaiL> you missunderstood me
[03:13] <KaiL> just after the upgrade it didn't ask for a PW
[03:13] <Diablo-D3> heh, who knows
[03:13] <Diablo-D3> probably a glitch
[03:13] <Diablo-D3> btw, wtf does ubuntu use for ppp?
[03:13] <KaiL> now (I think I fixed that with the downgrades) it does
[03:13] <Diablo-D3> the standard ppp shit or wvdial?
[03:14] <Diablo-D3> afk
[03:14] <KaiL> wvdial is only some kind of frontend afair
[03:15] <KaiL> am I the only one having a broken "Synchronisation" icon in kontact?
[03:17] <KaiL> ah, ok, you don#t ;)
[03:17] <KaiL> ...because I also don't have any more, after finding out, that there's something missing
[03:18] <whiskers> kkathman, are you there now
[03:18] <whiskers> kkathman, i found the problem with out of sync stuff
[03:19] <whiskers> kkathman, unfortunately it appears to be gstreamer plugins and stuff that need to be recompiled with the latest codec libraries
[03:19] <whiskers> kkathman, totem-xine is synching quite well
[03:20] <whiskers> kkathman, but totem-gstreamer seems to be the problem
[03:20] <closure> MPlayer > xine
[03:21] <closure> definitely totem-xine
[03:21] <whiskers> closure, yes MPlayer syncs very well also...but kkathman doesn't have it
[03:21] <closure> well ditch totem and get MPlayer
[03:21] <closure> and XMMS
[03:21] <closure> that is all you will need for a well rounded balanced media diet >8-)
[03:22] <whiskers> closure, i wasted several days working on the wrong stuff when it was the gstreamer stuff that needs to be updated against the latest libraries
[03:22] <closure> i don't *think* either of those apps rely on gstreamer
[03:22] <whiskers> closure, well totem relies on the gstreamer plugins
[03:22] <closure> they both worked "right out of the box"
[03:23] <whiskers> closure, the whole gstreamer needs to be recompiled
[03:23] <closure> right so why use an app that requires random ass plugins
[03:25] <closure> why not use a minimalist approach?
[03:28] <whiskers> closure, well it took time to find the problem because there were many variables involved....and i just assumed totem-gstreamer was working
[03:28] <whiskers> closure, i made a bad assumption
[03:29] <Cowlike-away> random ass plugins? i'd think any sort of ass plugin would be bad
[03:29] <closure> oh
[03:29] <cartel_> sigh
[03:29] <closure> Cowlike, depends on who's plugin
[03:29] <cartel_> Cowlike: depends on whos ass is being plugged
[03:29] <closure> i mean if that's what britney spears is into
[03:29] <Cowlike> lol
[03:29] <closure> it's the price of the ticket man
[03:30] <cartel_> closure: tawny roberts :o
[03:30] <closure> and if i bought the ticket you better believe i'm taking the ride
[03:30] <closure> cartel_, jordan capri >8-)
[03:30] <Cowlike> *<------
[03:31] <closure> i'd straight put in work on that ass
[03:31] <cartel_> closure: taylor rain
[03:31] <closure> i'd need a time card for by the end of it all
[03:31] <cartel_> closure: aurora :o
[03:31] <whiskers> closure, i think totem-gstreamer can work but the entire gstreamer system with plugins,etc...needs to be recompiled against the latest ogg, vorbis, theora libraries...as well as some of the other codecs which are not synching either
[03:32] <closure> whiskers, i'm sure it can work
[03:32] <closure> whiskers, i just don't understand why it was decided to use such dependent apps
[03:32] <whiskers> closure, well because they came installed on hoary
[03:32] <whiskers> closure, so i just assumed they were working and went in the wrong direction to fix the problem
[03:33] <closure> but who decided to put them on hoary?:
[03:33] <closure> i'm not saying you're the reason
[03:33] <whiskers> closure, how do i know...i did not engineer hoary
[03:33] <closure> lol
[03:33] <closure> it was retorical
[03:34] <Chin2> does anybody here use enlightenment?
[03:34] <closure> wow haven't heard that one in a while
[03:35] <closure> i was thinking of slapping after step on here
[03:35] <Chin2> I'm using it, I just have a question
[03:35] <chavo> afterstep, now that's oldschool.
[03:35] <Chin2> I can't select "enlightenment" at login, I have to go through windowmaker to start it.
[03:35] <Chin2> not sure if that's how it has to be.
[03:35] <closure> chavo, for real but i want to see if it would just crash or run like lightning
[03:36] <Chin2> I have afterstep installed too, it's very fast :)
[03:36] <chavo> closure, afterstep still works
[03:36] <closure> Chin2, did you compile from source or use a pkg
[03:36] <closure> is there an afterstep pkg?
[03:36] <closure> *starts to consider this idea*
[03:36] <Chin2> closure, I used packages for all of 'em
[03:37] <Chin2> enlightenment is awesome.
[03:38] <Chin2> check out this screenshot
[03:38] <Chin2> http://www.friendlyskies.net/enlighten1.png
[03:38] <Chin2> can't show the animation unfortunately :)
[03:38] <chavo> Chin2, there should be an entry for enlightenment in the session menu
[03:38] <KaiL> isn't that the WM with "last updated in 1996"?
[03:38] <Chin2> chavo, there isn't :(
[03:38] <whiskers> well if anybody sees kkathman...tell him i would like to try a trailer on his totem-xine and see how he likes the free codecs
[03:38] <closure> oh crunk it's skinned like a mac
[03:39] <whiskers> they are not so bad...it is just the gstreamer stuff that needs to be updated
[03:39] <Chin2> closure, that's the most mature-looking theme I could find for it :)
[03:39] <Chin2> everything else looks like it belongs in Hackers
[03:40] <closure> haha
[03:41] <closure> what's wrong with h4ck th3 pl4n3t! aRF aRF!
[03:41] <closure> i love that movie
[03:41] <closure> it's so exciting
[03:43] <Chin2> my wife refuses to use anything that is darker than the back of my closet
[03:43] <Chin2> :)
[03:43] <nmorse> anyone know why the ubuntu-java project repos don't work now?
[03:43] <closure> ?
[03:43] <closure> Chin2, just cause i have no shame i'm going to ask exactly what you're talking about
[03:43] <nmorse> the /pub/ubuntu-java/ folder on neacm.fe.up.pt doesn't exist anymore
[03:44] <Chin2> closure, sorry, referring to all the dark themes for enlightenment
[03:45] <whiskers> in my opinion ubuntu needs to get breezy out with lidb4.3 and the correct libc...for the database stuff...and get all the gstreamer stuff recompiled against the latest codecs....and then start people designing on a decent system
[03:45] <whiskers> and drop hoary very fast
[03:45] <Chin2> whiskers, what does all that mean?
[03:45] <Chin2> libc...libdb
[03:45] <Chin2> and what sort of design are you talking about?
[03:46] <Chin2> sorry, I'm a newb
[03:46] <whiskers> Chin2, well there were some fundamental changes and the developers using ubuntu need to start on a good footing
[03:46] <Chin2> oh, ok
[03:46] <cartel_> whiskers: decent system?
[03:47] <cartel_> whiskers: for starters not all codecs will go in (see restrictedformats)
[03:47] <whiskers> cartel_, well of course...we don't want the restricted ones...except where read only permission is allowed....we can do what we want with the free ones...they are pretty good.
[03:48] <whiskers> cartel_, that is for US Legal stuff...overseas i don't know the situation...if those codecs are allowed or not..
[03:49] <SpookyET> why is linux eating so much memory?
[03:49] <whiskers> cartel_, and the proprietary codec mfgs...can sell a linux version to anyone that wants them...just like the cedega guys
[03:49] <SpookyET> i got 4 MiB of RAM lefk
[03:49] <SpookyET> left*
[03:50] <Tm_T> SpookyET: hmm, how I tell this... linux use "free" memory as a cache or buffer, if some app need it, cache/buffer gives a room
[03:51] <SpookyET> weird
[03:51] <Tm_T> not at all
[03:51] <SpookyET> that means that it is a penalty there. it has to free the mem before the write in the buffer
[03:51] <Tm_T> afficient
[03:51] <Tm_T> e
[03:51] <Tm_T> SpookyET: nope
[03:52] <Tm_T> ok, I can't explain it correctly
[03:52] <SpookyET> is that like OS X is using cache?
[03:53] <cartel_> whiskers: actually there is nothing stopping inclusion of the formats except fear of prosecution. ubuntu isnt even hosted in the usa so us legal is a non issue
[03:54] <cartel_> whiskers: they dont even need to "sell" their codec, they just need to license the algorythms. except where software patents are concerned (dubious legality) XviD and LAME are free to use
[03:55] <Diablo-D3> I wonder why xvid and lame are illegal
[03:55] <cartel_> whiskers: but fraunhofer licensing MP3 to lame for free use would eliminate the question of patents too.
[03:55] <cartel_> they arent illegal
[03:55] <Diablo-D3> I mean, they're open source for christ's sake
[03:55] <Diablo-D3> they're 'illegal'
[03:55] <whiskers> cartel_, well that is right...there is no need for US Laws to apply to anyone else...I am just  speaking for people who live here...as I understand the debates
[03:55] <cartel_> they are questionable
[03:55] <Diablo-D3> in as such, they are using IP that they havent been liscensed to
[03:55] <cartel_> and only if you assume that a software patent is valid, which it isnt
[03:56] <Diablo-D3> I agree its not valid
[03:56] <Diablo-D3> but in the US, it is
[03:56] <whiskers> cartel_, well i know the debates...but i am telling you what these control freak judges have said in the US
[03:56] <Diablo-D3> but that isnt quite it, it should never apply to foss software
[03:56] <Cowlike> if foss software uses patented algorithms, then it applies
[03:57] <Cowlike> in the US anyway
[03:57] <Diablo-D3> Cowlike: and it shouldnt
[03:57] <cartel_> whiskers: i dont see a valid injunction based on software patent violation yet
[03:57] <Diablo-D3> but I never said US law made sense =/
[03:57] <Cowlike> "should" and "legal" are no necessarily the same :)
[03:57] <Diablo-D3> it rarely does
[03:57] <Diablo-D3> I wish I had the money to move to canada
[03:57] <sproingie> the judges are not control freaks.  they're doing their job
[03:57] <Tm_T> SpookyET: perhaps, afaik OS X is based on freeBSD
[03:57] <Diablo-D3> and get away from all this bullshit
[03:57] <sproingie> the patent holders are the control freaks
[03:57] <nmorse> Moving to Canada is cheap
[03:57] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: no, their job is to punish those who did wrong
[03:57] <whiskers> cartel_, well they passed that DMCA crap and the Patent Law crap and the Patriot Act Crap
[03:58] <nmorse> The American dollar is worth a lot more
[03:58] <sproingie> Diablo-D3: wow.  take a civics class
[03:58] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: in spirit damnit
[03:58] <nmorse> And Canadian food is better, even fast food
[03:59] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: I'm obviously implying laws should make sense and don't harm society
[04:00] <Diablo-D3> and the majority of US laws don't make sense and/or harm society
[04:00] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: oh stop it already
[04:01] <Diablo-D3> So, I believe judges are ultimately fucked
[04:01] <cartel_> yeah
[04:01] <Diablo-D3> they are doing wrong, they know they are doing wrong, and they are forced to follow the laws
[04:02] <cartel_> i wish the americans would hurry up and have a civil war and oust bush
[04:02] <Diablo-D3> cartel_: or we could just wait three years
[04:02] <Cowlike> i guess you don't know many judges if you think they KNOW they are doing wrong
[04:02] <Diablo-D3> its not like he has power anymore
[04:02] <Diablo-D3> Cowlike: okay, fine, _some_ know they are doing wrong
[04:03] <Diablo-D3> I was attempting to be nice for once
[04:03] <cartel_> and his administration, in fact the entire federal govt should be torn down and start again from scratch
[04:03] <Cowlike> bush doesn't have power?
[04:03] <Cowlike> are you fucking nuts?
[04:03] <Cowlike> republicans control both houses too
[04:03] <cartel_> Cowlike: bush's puppet masters have the power
[04:03] <Diablo-D3> well, the old people hate him
[04:03] <Diablo-D3> the young people hate him
[04:03] <Diablo-D3> the military hates him
[04:03] <Diablo-D3> I hate him
[04:03] <Diablo-D3> canada hates him
[04:03] <Cowlike> that's just not true about the military
[04:03] <Diablo-D3> the majority of europe hates him
[04:03] <cartel_> dude
[04:04] <cartel_> he halved combat pay
[04:04] <cartel_> of course they hate him
[04:04] <nmorse> Asia hates him
[04:04] <Diablo-D3> yeah what cartel_ said
[04:04] <Diablo-D3> asia hates him
[04:04] <Cowlike> i was in the military and i know a LOT of military people
[04:04] <cartel_> he cut their military healthcare plan
[04:04] <sproingie> apparently enough folks liked him enough
[04:04] <Diablo-D3> africa, if they wernt busy starving to death and dying from aids, would hate him
[04:04] <Cowlike> and what you're saying is bullshit
[04:04] <nmorse> No, enough people hated John Kerry more
[04:04] <Cowlike> they hated clinton a LOT more for slashing pay AND closing bases
[04:04] <Tm_T> damn, sun is rising =)
[04:04] <Diablo-D3> Cowlike: well, either the military hates him, or the military is fucking stupid
[04:04] <Diablo-D3> take your pick
[04:04] <nmorse> I personally hated both "major" presidential candidates
[04:04] <sproingie> wasnt it george H.W. who started closing bases?
[04:05] <nmorse> I supported Badnarik
[04:05] <Diablo-D3> clinton closed a small ammount
[04:05] <Diablo-D3> ones that wernt being used anymore
[04:05] <sproingie> so, how about that kubuntu thing, eh?
[04:05] <Cowlike> lol
[04:05] <Cowlike> sproingie, is that on topic here?
[04:06] <sproingie> probably not
[04:06] <Diablo-D3> there was a lot of bitching about it, but the money could be put somewhere else
[04:06] <Tm_T> heh, sun is rising, and I haven't even slept at all :p
[04:06] <Diablo-D3> btw, what the fucking hell is with the f22 program
[04:06] <cartel_> Diablo-D3: i thought they were already in use?
[04:06] <Diablo-D3> we've been working on that thing for like 50 years, and sunk trillions of dollars into that program
[04:06] <Diablo-D3> and we still dont have a fully functioning f22
[04:06] <cartel_> Diablo-D3: you mean lightning / raptor / grey ghost?
[04:07] <Diablo-D3> yup, raptor
[04:07] <cartel_> i thought it was complete
[04:07] <Diablo-D3> afiak it isnt
[04:07] <sproingie> welcome to #military-industrial-complex
[04:07] <cartel_> grey ghost was better
[04:07] <cartel_> it has a laser
[04:07] <Diablo-D3> lasers are bad
[04:07] <sproingie> ooh lasers are good
[04:07] <Diablo-D3> lasers blind people
[04:08] <Diablo-D3> and thats all its useful for
[04:08] <cartel_> http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,200~20943~2836036,00.html
[04:08] <sproingie> i forget, are the good guy lasers red or blue?
[04:08] <Diablo-D3> its not like its an actual weapon
[04:08] <cartel_> they also punch holes in enemy planes
[04:08] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: blue
[04:08] <Diablo-D3> cartel_: which it doesnt nearly have enough power for that
[04:08] <cartel_> sproingie: transparent
[04:08] <SpookyET> to whom should /boot/grub/menu.lst belong? it belongs to root, yet I always have to type configfile /boot/grub/menu.lst at boot
[04:08] <cartel_> Diablo-D3: its a class IV chemical laser
[04:08] <SpookyET> it does not do it automatically
[04:08] <cartel_> read a book
[04:08] <wallen> anyone running the openoffice.org 2.0 beta on kubuntu?
[04:09] <Diablo-D3> cartel_: which requires *gasp!* power
[04:09] <cartel_> Diablo-D3: its powered by a chemical reaction
[04:09] <Diablo-D3> er?
[04:09] <Diablo-D3> *dubious
[04:09] <sproingie> cartel_: nuh uh, they're always colored bolts that zip across at, like almost the speed of sound and stuff and they make PSHEEW PSHEEW sounds!
[04:09] <cartel_> you've never heard of a chemical laser?
[04:09] <Diablo-D3> btw, wtf with that url
[04:10] <SpookyET> hidemenu is commented out
[04:10] <Diablo-D3> that url is implying that the military is happy with that
[04:11] <cartel_> Diablo-D3: sorry do you know top echelon military personell who dont like it?
[04:11] <Diablo-D3> No, but I know Bush has something to do with this
[04:12] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: and, oh, moving targets.
[04:12] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: and tin foil.
[04:12] <Diablo-D3> bah, you never heard of warp drives?
[04:12] <cartel_> anyway, its stupid to build a plane like f22 lightning when the comparable plane is the Berkut, which would whip its ass
[04:12] <cartel_> Diablo-D3: obviously you dont know much about lasers
[04:12] <sproingie> i admit, a laser will have a hard time hitting a target at warp speed
[04:13] <cartel_> sproingie: use a phaser
[04:13] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: yeah, and the russians have that shit now
[04:13] <Diablo-D3> cartel_: you are missing the sarcasm, arnt you?
[04:13] <sproingie> Diablo-D3: warp drive?  damn sneaky russkies.
[04:13] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: yeah, and they have cloaking devices too
[04:13] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: but remember, you have to think at it in russian!
[04:13] <sproingie> shit, there could be one in my living room, ARGH
[04:14] <Diablo-D3> ... thats a pretty big living room
 Look at our new plane, its the F22 lightning!
 we've been waiting for this! lets unveil the berkut at an airshow!
 damn, guess we cocked that one up
[04:15] <Diablo-D3> wtf is this berkut anyhow?
[04:15] <cartel_> Sukhoi Su-37 Berkhut
[04:15] <Diablo-D3> btw, my most serious thoughts about the f22, is that it may absolutely suck
[04:15] <Diablo-D3> its taken too long to design and manufacturer and fix so it doesnt reboot in flight
[04:16] <sproingie> frankly, the flying platform is kind of secondary to avionics.  and it's not like we don't upgrade those
[04:16] <cartel_> Diablo-D3: http://members.aol.com/offshoreel/Bilder/su37.jpg
[04:16] <cartel_> look at the wings
[04:17] <Diablo-D3> .... it flies?
[04:17] <sproingie> top gun style dogfights might be sexy but one good AMRAAM stops 'em before you even see 'em
[04:17] <cartel_> its the worlds only thrust vectoring fighter
[04:17] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: yeah, but eventually we'll have AIs who hack missle computers in seconds
[04:18] <sproingie> uhh sure
[04:18] <Diablo-D3> wasnt the f22 supposed to be thrust vectoring?
[04:18] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: </gits:sac>
[04:18] <sproingie> f22 program is obsolete, dude.  they switched to JSF 
[04:18] <sproingie> now *that* has been held up for a while
[04:18] <sproingie> since the navy and AF can't agree
[04:18] <Diablo-D3> hah jsf is like dead
[04:18] <Diablo-D3> yeah exactly
[04:18] <cartel_> ef2k :p
[04:19] <Diablo-D3> but I wonder why they continued with the f22
[04:19] <Diablo-D3> it took too long to be that useful
[04:19] <nmorse> You know, the reason I got this distribution was the excellent hardware support
[04:19] <nmorse> and while I'll admit it go my wireless off the bat, my sound still doesn't work
[04:19] <Diablo-D3> though, I do like the look of it
[04:19] <Diablo-D3> I always have
[04:19] <Diablo-D3> nmorse: what sound chip?
[04:20] <sproingie> nmorse: i betcha ubuntu won't support the FA-18 avionics
[04:20] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: I dunno man
[04:20] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: If Linux wont boot on it, I bet netbsd will
[04:21] <sproingie> netbsd's probably been ported to eniac
[04:21] <Diablo-D3> probably
[04:21] <Diablo-D3> it already runs on both my toaster and microwave
[04:21] <Diablo-D3> but back to the f22
[04:21] <sproingie> Z-80s in those, most likely
[04:21] <Diablo-D3> you're lying if you cant upgrade f15s to perform 35825908235908 times better
[04:22] <cartel_> the f22 has a geforce 2 :)
[04:22] <sproingie> 2 g's is namby.  you can pull that in a car.
[04:22] <sproingie> oh.  duh.
[04:22] <Diablo-D3> -_-
[04:23] <Diablo-D3> I wish they would get the jsf program going
[04:23] <Diablo-D3> the f22 was designed to replace the f15
[04:23] <Diablo-D3> except it cant replace the f16
[04:23] <sproingie> i wish they'd fund the rest of the country so there's something left to defend
[04:23] <Diablo-D3> and the f15 cant do the job that the f16 does, and vice versa
[04:24] <Diablo-D3> the jsf, of course, is supposed to replace the f16
[04:24] <Diablo-D3> so, the f22 is going to be pretty retarded teaming up with f16s because the government cant figure out how to get jsf working
[04:24] <sproingie> whatever.  back to perlnomic
[04:25] <cartel_> Diablo-D3: f22 cant replace f16?
[04:25] <Diablo-D3> cartel_: its not designed to, no
[04:25] <Diablo-D3> though, I'm not sure why you couldnt just produce an f22 that replaces the f16
[04:26] <sproingie> i suspect anything we design now will be aimed at chinese air power, not russian
[04:26] <Diablo-D3> chinese air power... isnt.
[04:26] <sproingie> zactly
[04:26] <sproingie> not yet.  so we're waiting and seeing
[04:26] <Diablo-D3> I dont know why we just dont sell them shit
[04:27] <Diablo-D3> maybe we dont want a repeat of israel
[04:27] <cartel_> wait didnt a chinese interceptor shoot down that spyplane?
[04:27] <sproingie> nope
[04:27] <sproingie> collided with it when they buzzed it
[04:27] <sproingie> got a lil' too close i guess
[04:27] <cartel_> ahh yep
[04:27] <sproingie> killed the pilot
[04:27] <Diablo-D3> so.. it was an accident?
[04:27] <sproingie> unless the chinese military doctrine includes kamikaze attacks, yes
[04:28] <cartel_> chinese military doctrine is geurilla warfare
[04:28] <Diablo-D3> chinese military doctrine is do anything to win
[04:28] <sproingie> cartel_: guerilla warfare, not even.  more like massive force, russian style 
[04:29] <Diablo-D3> goliath online!
[04:29] <sproingie> they're modernizing like crazy tho
[04:29] <Diablo-D3> er, wait, thats korean, nm
[04:30] <Diablo-D3> I'm still waiting for japan to produce gundams
[04:31] <cartel_> sproingie: who invented guerilla warfare?
[04:31] <Tm_T> o/
[04:31] <cartel_> "when the enemy attacks, retreat. when the enemy retreats, attack" who said that?
[04:32] <Diablo-D3> sun tzu?
[04:32] <cartel_> Diablo-D3: get real
[04:32] <cartel_> mao zedong
[04:32] <Tm_T> dingdong
[04:33] <Diablo-D3> cartel_: oh right
[04:33] <SpookyEt> what's that command that makes fonts look better?
[04:33] <Diablo-D3> SpookyEt: kcontrol
[04:34] <Tm_T> font --look-nicer ?
[04:34] <Tm_T> ;p
[04:34] <Diablo-D3> I dont like the look of the f22 cockpit, btw
[04:34] <Diablo-D3> its too goddamn busy
[04:34] <SpookyEt> show pic
[04:35] <SpookyEt> f22 is useless anyway
[04:35] <Diablo-D3> SpookyEt: not quite
[04:35] <SpookyEt> it was designed in th 80s to fight the soviets
[04:35] <SpookyEt> it's got no function now
[04:35] <Diablo-D3> it fills the gap the f15 will leave once its taken out of service
[04:35] <SpookyEt> waste of money
[04:35] <Diablo-D3> no, SpookyEt 
[04:35] <Diablo-D3> the f15 was designed in the 80s
[04:35] <SpookyEt> do you have any idea how expensive it is?
[04:35] <Diablo-D3> (they're about 15 years old now)
[04:36] <Diablo-D3> yes, roughly $84 million a plane
[04:36] <SpookyEt> i know that the f117 and b2 are flying bricks
[04:36] <SpookyEt> show  me a pic of the cockpit
[04:36] <Diablo-D3> if the f15 was new, it'd be on the scale of around $200 million a plane
[04:36] <Diablo-D3> like I said, I have no pics on hand
[04:38] <SpookyEt> the pilots said that a dude that can fly a cesna can fly the f22
[04:38] <SpookyEt> so what you see as busy, is not for them
[04:38] <cartel_> im just pointing out to sproingie that chinese military doctrine is geurilla warfare :)
[04:38] <SpookyEt> i like the sucoi
[04:38] <cartel_> arent plane cockpits insanely busy anyway?
[04:38] <Diablo-D3> well, it has four seperate heads-down displays
[04:38] <Diablo-D3> cartel_: yeah
[04:39] <Diablo-D3> but it just seems a little much for me
[04:39] <SpookyEt> sukhoi su-27
[04:39] <cartel_> are you a pilot?
[04:39] <SpookyEt> it is the most manuverable plane ever
[04:39] <cartel_> SpookyEt: yes the sukhoi is awesome
[04:39] <Diablo-D3> cartel_: unfortunately, no
[04:39] <SpookyEt> too damn expensive
[04:39] <cartel_> SpookyEt: i doubt very much it will be defeated in a dogfight by any other plane
[04:40] <cartel_> SpookyEt: they only need 2 of them :)
[04:40] <SpookyEt> i'd be paying school loans until i'm 50 if i was to become a pilot
[04:40] <sproingie> eh?  military will take you for nothing.
[04:40] <SpookyEt> i've seen some cool acrobatics
[04:40] <cartel_> sproingie and he'll never get into academy
[04:40] <Diablo-D3> http://www.f22fighter.com/f22comparison.jpg
[04:40] <SpookyEt> sproingie: flat feet, problems with one eye
[04:40] <Diablo-D3> neat image I found
[04:41] <sproingie> well, eye trouble and no way
[04:41] <cartel_> yf22 is lightning yea?
[04:41] <Diablo-D3> yf22 is prototype I think
[04:41] <SpookyEt> what about the joint strike fighter?
[04:41] <cartel_> yea lightning
[04:42] <Diablo-D3> I like the look of the yf22 better
[04:43] <SpookyEt> is the sukhoi the most manuverable plane ever?
[04:43] <cartel_> yes
[04:43] <cartel_> its the only thrust vectoring fighter
[04:43] <cartel_> i cant seem to find any pics of the grey ghost
[04:43] <SpookyEt> the worst flying brick is probably the shuttle
[04:43] <SpookyEt> http://www.flymig.com/
[04:44] <cartel_> ahhh
[04:44] <cartel_> the plane is actually called the black widow
[04:45] <cartel_> grey ghost was the name of the prototype they build
[04:45] <cartel_> built*
[04:45] <Diablo-D3> YF-23A Gray Ghost
[04:46] <SpookyEt> they all suck compared to UFOs
[04:46] <cartel_> they all suck compared to aurora
[04:46] <Diablo-D3> http://content.miw.com.sg/LifeStyle/Military/Images/20040514_combat_aircraft03.jpg
[04:46] <Diablo-D3> http://content.miw.com.sg/LifeStyle/Military/Images/20040514_combat_aircraft04.jpg
[04:46] <cartel_> i mean seriously how can you out dogfight a plane that doesnt exist
[04:46] <Diablo-D3> thats the gray ghost
[04:47] <SpookyEt> aurora looks like crap
[04:47] <cartel_> SpookyEt: it doesnt really exist does it?
[04:47] <SpookyEt> maybe it does, maybe it does not
[04:48] <cartel_> even if it does exist, it is obseleted
[04:48] <SpookyEt> but at mac 6, you probably have to fill it with a super tanker every 100 miles
[04:48] <Diablo-D3> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YF-23
[04:48] <Diablo-D3> black widow
[04:52] <SpookyEt> comanche was cool
[04:52] <cartel_> comanche sux
[04:52] <cartel_> american helicopters sux
[04:52] <SpookyEt> got a better one?
[04:53] <SpookyEt> with stealth?
[04:53] <cartel_> yes
[04:53] <Tm_T> no, keep your pants up
[04:53] <cartel_> kamov ka-50 black shark
[04:53] <cartel_> kamov ka-52 alligator
[04:55] <narg> so I was following the guide to installing wine on the ubuntu forums. And when I get to the install fonts part, every time I run what it goes: wine: error while loading shared libraries: libwine.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[04:55] <narg> how would I fix that / what went wrong?
[04:56] <SpookyEt> http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/fighterdisc.html
[05:05] <Riddell> aseigo_: what was the Story then?
[05:18] <Tm_T> ah, secured ircin' :)
[05:30] <Ni7r0> hi I have just installed GCC-3.4 with kynaptic, but where is it located? i try <which gcc> but it can't find it, i must have it for installing vmware tools :'(
[05:31] <Riddell> roadmap approved!
[05:33] <Ni7r0> btw what is wrong with the upgradable kdelibs-data ?
[05:34] <Tm_T> broken package?
[05:34] <Ni7r0> i installed it 5 times now, but it is still in the upgradable window
[05:34] <Ni7r0> broken ?
[05:35] <Ni7r0> how can that be, i just installed kubuntu a hour ago
[05:36] <Tm_T> Ni7r0: check topic?
[05:36] <Ni7r0> ok nice one :] 
[05:36] <Ni7r0> its late..
[05:38] <Ni7r0> ok and how about gcc, i have installed gcc with kynaptic, but i can't find it anywhere [ sorry for my n00b questions, just trying linux ] 
[05:39] <Ni7r0> i need it to compile vmware-tools or something
[05:43] <nicc> i don't know if any of you guys know that they came out with patch to fix nvidia driver from locking up the whole system?
[05:44] <Chin2> Roadmap: "GCC 4 comes with a new C++ ABI"
[05:47] <whiskers> ok..who has a website that can host this trailer so people can see their free theora,vorbis codecs....and examine the issues and see where the code needs to go
[05:48] <whiskers> i have done all i can .
[05:48] <Tm_T> nicc: nvidia locks whole system?
[05:48] <Tm_T> whiskers: hmm, maybe?
[05:49] <whiskers> is there anyone that has skype to get the file and host it for others to see how their systems are behaving
[05:49] <whiskers> it is about 100megs for the 7 minute trailer
[05:49] <Tm_T> hmm
[05:49] <nicc> Tm_T: yes after u install nvidia driver and after u enable "RenderAccel" on
[05:49] <Tm_T> heh
[05:50] <Tm_T> nicc: doesn't do that in my pc
[05:50] <Tm_T> whiskers: don't have skype, but dcc would work
[05:50] <nicc> Tm_T: what do u have for a video card?
[05:51] <Tm_T> nicc: 5700
[05:51] <whiskers> Tm_T, dcc can't get past this NAT stuff...but i have been able to upload to kkathman on skype
[05:51] <whiskers> Tm_T, it is the only thing i have for uploading at this time
[05:51] <Tm_T> whiskers: hmm, ssh?
[05:51] <whiskers> Tm_T, i don't think it will get past NAT
[05:51] <Tm_T> ok
[05:52] <whiskers> Tm_T, i tried many things with kkathman and so far only skype seems to know how to get past the NAT stuff
[05:52] <Tm_T> some "upload here" website thing may work
[05:52] <nicc> Tm_T: u have "RenderAccel" on or off?
[05:52] <Tm_T> nicc: on
[05:53] <whiskers> if anybody has some spare room on their website...this should help the developers test and adjust their sync mechanisms if they think improvement is needed
[05:53] <nicc> that's weird
[05:53] <nicc> what kind of motherboard do u have?
[05:53] <Tm_T> whiskers: I do but don't have skype, sorry :/
[05:53] <whiskers> Tm_T, well...i just don't know any other way
[05:54] <whiskers> Tm_T, unless you have some recommendations for me to try
[05:54] <Tm_T> whiskers: I look if I can find solution
[05:54] <Tm_T> nicc: epox, nforce2 chip
[05:55] <nicc> when was the last time u updated ur system?
[05:56] <Tm_T> eh, you mean OS update?
[05:56] <Tm_T> whiskers: you tested dcc in irc?
[05:56] <whiskers> well i am very tired it has been several days on this issue...but the test file is there for those who are interested in the free codecs.
[05:56] <Tm_T> whiskers: wanna try ssh?
[05:56] <whiskers> Tm_T, i don't know how to use ssh
[05:56] <Tm_T> heh
[05:57] <Tm_T> ok, you have ssh installed?
[05:57] <zabu> i'm starting to get very tired of kubuntu killing my firefox
[05:57] <whiskers> Tm_T, i can get it
[05:57] <Tm_T> ok
[05:57] <whiskers> Tm_T, no it is installed but you tell me how to use it
[05:58] <Tm_T> just addusr me and place that file into my homedir in there
[05:58] <Tm_T> so I download it
[05:58] <whiskers> Tm_T, ok give me the exact commands
[05:58] <whiskers> Tm_T, i don't have sshd...just ssh
[05:58] <Tm_T> its all the same
[05:58] <Tm_T> afaik
[05:59] <whiskers> Tm_T, ok...well give me the exact commands...and i will try
[05:59] <Tm_T> ok, I'll make this easier
[05:59] <Tm_T> you know how to use gFTP or others?
[06:00] <whiskers> Tm_T, well it has been a long time since i used ftp....but it was only to download not upload...i don't have ftpd...and even if i did it would not work behind this firewall
[06:01] <Tm_T> I mean, if you have gFTP installed, you can use it to transfer data over ssh
[06:01] <whiskers> Tm_T, well tell me the exact commands...
[06:01] <Tm_T> hmm, I make this very easy, I'll make a account to you into my pc
[06:01] <Tm_T> so you only need to upload it to here
[06:02] <whiskers> Tm_T, the easiest thing is for you to install skype temporarily and let me give you the file
[06:02] <Tm_T> maybe
[06:02] <Tm_T> is it in repos?
[06:02] <whiskers> Tm_T, i don't know
[06:02] <Tm_T> I'll check it
[06:03] <Tm_T> nope :)
[06:03] <whiskers> Tm_T, you probably have to download it from their website...i believe it is free but closed source
[06:03] <Tsjoklat> Tm_T: ubuntuguide.org
[06:04] <Tm_T> whiskers: yes, downloading it
[06:04] <Tm_T> Tsjoklat: err?
[06:04] <whiskers> Tm_T, ok...are you using kde or gnome
[06:04] <Tm_T> KDE
[06:04] <whiskers> Tm_T, ok then you have to pkill artsd when you want to use skype ...ok
[06:05] <Tsjoklat> Tm_T you'll find a lot answers there
[06:05] <Tm_T> Tsjoklat: thank's I know :)
[06:05] <Tsjoklat> Tm_T sorry jumped into the convo :)
[06:05] <Tm_T> :)
[06:05] <Tm_T> np
[06:11] <narg> !
[06:11] <Tm_T> whiskers: ok, should be working now allright
[06:12] <Tm_T> hi darkaudit 
[06:12] <whiskers> Tm_T, what is your user name on skype...and be sure that you pkilled artsd and esd just in case
[06:12] <Tm_T> hmm
[06:17] <whiskers> Tm_T, did you get a user name yet
[06:17] <Tm_T> yes, I /msg you
[06:18] <whiskers> ok let me see if i can find you and i will open a chat
[06:18] <Tm_T> :)
[06:29] <tjs> does konq-speaker have alternate voices ?
[07:06] <whiskers> Tm_T, ok..you have the first REAL thing not some leggo junk so get it to the people so they can make whatever code adjustments they think are necessary.
[07:14] <whiskers> Tm_T, watch the actors' lips and listen to the sound and see if the free codecs are adequately synchronized
[07:14] <Tm_T> hmm, ok
[07:16] <whiskers> Tm_T, also be sure to try it in full screen mode.
[07:17] <Tm_T> ofcourse :)
[07:19] <Tm_T> whiskers: eh, my msg don't got ya?
[07:19] <amu> dude, kaffeine is uploaded soon knet will come also, someone can check if knet rocks ? 
[07:21] <whiskers> Tm_T, i am here..i was in the kitchen
[07:22] <whiskers> Tm_T, did you try to play it
[07:22] <Tm_T> not yet
[07:22] <whiskers> Tm_T, ok....well be sure to sudo nautilus and make whatever owner/group adjustements are necessary for the file
[07:23] <Tm_T> all suppose to be done
[07:23] <whiskers> Tm_T, and pkill skype to be sure...then restart esd ...not artsd ...and check with totem-xine
[07:24] <whiskers> or restart artsd not esd and check with whatever kde uses.
[07:24] <Tm_T> actually skype shutted itself nicely =)
[07:24] <whiskers> Tm_T, ok..good to know that
[07:35] <brenton> has anyone here installed OOo2 Base??  
[07:40] <Kamping_Kaiser> brenton. yes....
[07:40] <Kamping_Kaiser> took i out again though
[07:40] <Kamping_Kaiser> *it
[07:40] <brenton> i can't it on any of the repositories
[07:42] <Kamping_Kaiser> only oo.org irrc.
[07:42] <brenton> i have universe in my source.list
[07:42] <brenton> and a bunch of other repositories.... but all i see is OOo2 sans base
[07:44] <billytwowilly> Is there any way to speed up the thumbnailing in konqueror? When I put my mouse over a file it takes about 5 seconds to get a thumbnail view
[07:45] <Kamping_Kaiser> yes. just looked in my mirrors and its not there
[07:45] <brenton> i'm stumped
[07:45] <Kamping_Kaiser> i must have had it when i was using doze :|
[07:45] <Kamping_Kaiser> you might have to get it from htier website
[07:45] <Kamping_Kaiser> rpm install using alien
[07:45] <brenton> is it possible to just download Base from OOo?....
[07:45] <Kamping_Kaiser> not afaik
[07:46] <brenton> hmm... i've never done that and am not familiar... but i could probably figure it out sometime when i'm not so pooped
[07:46] <Kamping_Kaiser> if you get the rpm we can help you . its basicly alien -i rpmname.rpm
[07:47] <brenton> that doesn't sound so bad
[07:47] <brenton> i may end up doing that... just not right now.. i should be sleeping ;)
[07:47] <brenton> thanks!
[07:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> :) all good
[08:39] <whiskers> well i am very tired...the file is up at http://tmtravolta.kapsi.fi/ if anyone wants to test the free codecs on their system.
[08:45] <Riddell> whiskers: can you put a note saying how many MB that .ogg file is on that page
[08:46] <whiskers> Riddell, it is not my website...but it is about 7 minutes of material to examine for improving the code.....the file is about 100megs
[08:46] <whiskers> Riddell, of course don't expect commercial type results...but i think you will see that the free codecs can be useful to the free software community
[08:49] <Riddell> 100megs!  don't think I'll download that given the price of internet here
[08:50] <Riddell> isn't there a different extention for ogg video.  .ogm or something
[08:52] <whiskers> Riddell, no..ogm use vorbis with the commercial mpeg4....and is not free....ogg is a full theora,vorbis combination of free codecs.
[08:52] <whiskers> Riddell, so there is a huge difference as far as the laws in the US goes.
[08:53] <whiskers> for those with a true free software spirit...i think they would like to examine it.
[08:54] <Riddell> mpeg4 in ogg, interesting
[08:54] <Riddell> the ogg video streaming we had at akademy was fantastic
[09:33] <tabmoW> anyone get kubuntu just stopping on the boot after 'scsi [success] '
[09:40] <tabmoW> anyone?
[09:42] <Quinn_Storm> tabmoW: no but it sounds like hotplug is loading a bad driver
[09:42] <tabmoW> so how can i disable it so i can boot up
[09:42] <Quinn_Storm> that I don't know
[09:42] <Neil3> hey all
[09:43] <tabmoW> FUCK
[09:43] <tabmoW> it never did this with the previous hoary one and that wasn't even production
[09:43] <tabmoW> how weird
[09:44] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi
[09:45] <tabmoW> is it possible to stop drivers from loading on start?
[09:46] <Neil3> regarding the kdelibs-debug.sh script, should i run it before or after i update?
[09:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> neil3 looks like after, bt not sure
[09:55] <Neil3> hmmz
[09:55] <Neil3> i think i'll hold back on the update till the packages are fixed
[09:55] <Neil3> its only a small security fix afaik
[09:55] <Kamping_Kaiser> not like you need it anyway
[09:55] <Neil3> ya
[09:56] <Neil3> i just like being up to date though
[09:56] <Neil3> there is a patch for kaffine though which fixes its buggyness
[09:56] <Neil3> just installed it and all is perfect!
[09:56] <Kamping_Kaiser> :) 
[09:56] <Kamping_Kaiser> security patches dont usualy help much. unless you want to be secure
[09:56] <Neil3> i switched from the gnome version of ubuntu so i'm still getting used to the kde way of doing stuff
[09:57] <Neil3> looking for a native kde bit torrent client now
[09:57] <Neil3> most seem to be gtk
[09:57] <Kamping_Kaiser> so you upgraded ubuntu to kubuntu?
[09:57] <Neil3> nope
[09:57] <Neil3> did a clean install
[09:57] <spiral> hi
[09:57] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi
[09:57] <spiral> Neil3: qtorrent or smth like this ?
[09:57] <Neil3> cool
[09:57] <Neil3> i'll have a look for em
[09:58] <spiral> Neil3: :-)
[09:58] <Neil3> thanks spiral installing now
[09:58] <Neil3> i'm liking kde over gnome more and more
[09:58] <spiral> Neil3: I agree with you on this point :-)
[09:58] <Quinn_Storm> <3 kde
[09:59] <Neil3> yeah
[09:59] <Neil3> i was more into gnome because my only kde experience was with mandrake a couple of years ago
[09:59] <Neil3> but kde seems way more responsive and faster and better integrated i really like what the kubuntu team did with it
[10:00] <Quinn_Storm> I've never even gotten mdk to install let alone tried their kde
[10:00] <Neil3> yeah i didnt like mdk
[10:01] <Neil3> but it was when i decided to go all out linux on my desktop having had brief flirtations with knoppix and stuff so i was still quite new
[10:01] <Quinn_Storm> yeah, many many years ago my first linux distro (d/l in honest-to-goodness disk sets via a dial-up aol connection) was slackware
[10:02] <Neil3> hehe
[10:02] <Neil3> my first try was with red hat 5.2
[10:02] <Neil3> and fvwm!
[10:02] <Quinn_Storm> I remember fvwm
[10:02] <Quinn_Storm> not fondly
[10:02] <Neil3> yeah it was just an ugly blocky thing
[10:02] <Neil3> but so was windows 95 at the time
[10:02] <Quinn_Storm> I remember kde 2
[10:03] <Quinn_Storm> now that was a nice thing for the time
[10:03] <Neil3> i think i got kde1 on a magazine cover disk and somehow managed to install it
[10:03] <Quinn_Storm> right around the launch of win 95 if I remember...or maybe it was kde 1 though I think it was 2
[10:03] <Quinn_Storm> I can't remember clearly when what happened
[10:03] <Neil3> yeah
[10:03] <Neil3> good stuff though
[10:04] <Quinn_Storm> yeah
[10:04] <Neil3> hm are there any kde based p2p apps?
[10:04] <Quinn_Storm> I use apollon
[10:04] <Quinn_Storm> but you need to do a little setup with it
[10:04] <Quinn_Storm> its not all gui setup unfortunately
[10:04] <Quinn_Storm> I've heard about a kde ed2k client too
[10:04] <Neil3> dang
[10:05] <Neil3> yeah something for gnutella and maybe ed2k would be neat
[10:05] <Quinn_Storm> well apollon is gnutella, openft, and if you can find it, ft
[10:05] <Neil3> ok
[10:05] <Neil3> might give it a go
[10:05] <Neil3> how complex is the setup? just a case of editing a config file?
[10:06] <Quinn_Storm> Neil3: its a case of running gift-setup and answering its questions
[10:06] <Neil3> konversation is a nice irc client too although i cant find any way to get the tabs going vertical
[10:07] <Quinn_Storm> thats a great argument for something I was discussing with someone earlier...they were trying to say essentially "configurability is bad" especially when its a "well I don 't see why anyone would want that" case (like I never would have expected someone to want vertical irc tabs)
[10:08] <Neil3> really?
[10:08] <Neil3> i actually prefer it
[10:08] <Neil3> i can fit more channels in
[10:08] <Quinn_Storm> yeah it makes sense that way, I just wouldn't have thought of it
[10:08] <Neil3> works a lot better for me i'm used to it in xchat
[10:08] <Quinn_Storm> I tend to use alt+left&right to switch channels
[10:08] <Quinn_Storm> thats the default key combo for konvi
[10:08] <Neil3> sweet thats ok
[10:09] <Quinn_Storm> all those shortcuts are configurable in almost every kde app
[10:09] <Quinn_Storm> configurability is kde's biggest strength over gnome & other de's
[10:09] <Quinn_Storm> oh and if you use konqueror and want middle-click to close tabs, let me know and I'll dig up the hidden config setting for that
[10:10] <Neil3> cheers but thats not bothering me yet!
[10:10] <Neil3> only thing with konqueror is if i have it open on a web site and i then open my home folder from the panel, it opens in a new tab rather than its own window with the sidebar which i like for file management
[10:11] <Quinn_Storm> ah, if you want to toggle the sidebar, push F9
[10:11] <Quinn_Storm> that -should- be in the menus somewhere but doesn't seem to be, though as usual you can configure the key
[10:24] <Neil3> damn
[10:25] <Neil3> gift is giving me jip
[10:25] <Neil3> i went through the setup process and the daemon wont start
[10:25] <Quinn_Storm> when you ran the setup, at the very beginning it asked a question with a default value of 0, did you make sure to change that to something else?
[10:27] <Neil3> woohoo all good
[10:27] <Neil3> yeah i misread it thought it'd not work if it was non 0
[10:27] <Neil3> hah
[10:27] <Neil3> all is well
[10:28] <Quinn_Storm> I figure you have gnutella & openft plugins for gift then?
[10:28] <Neil3> openft has a lot of users
[10:28] <Neil3> yep
[10:28] <Neil3> enabled both
[10:28] <Quinn_Storm> yeah, openft only sometimes returns matches though
[10:28] <Quinn_Storm> its like...really not great
[10:28] <Quinn_Storm> but the gnutella side works wonderfully
[10:28] <Neil3> cool
[10:28] <Neil3> will have to try it out after it shares my stuff
[10:29] <Quinn_Storm> I managed to find a debian package for and get the real fasttrack plugin installed but it was a mess to do so
[10:29] <Neil3> looks nice though
[10:29] <Neil3> yeah
[10:29] <Quinn_Storm> yeah apollon is pretty nice, its running on my right monitor right now
[10:29] <Neil3> :)
[10:29] <Neil3> i might get round to recompiling k3b for mp3 burning
[10:29] <Quinn_Storm> thats pretty easy since you can do it "the debian way" (there's a kubuntu wiki about it)
[10:30] <Neil3> yeah i read that
[10:30] <Quinn_Storm> oh and if you use amarok you'll want to recompile libtunepimp-bin for mp3 as well so you can do musicbrainz-tagging properly on mp3s
[10:30] <Neil3> just don't really like bodging stuff
[10:30] <Quinn_Storm> well at least that way there's a debian package connected to it
[10:30] <Neil3> but yeah
[10:31] <Quinn_Storm> and you just put a hold on it in your manager (I mostly use aptitude, synaptic kynaptic and kpackage just don't seem great to me)
[10:31] <Neil3> i'm trying to avoid gtk at all costs
[10:31] <Neil3> stuck with kynaptic at the moment
[10:31] <Quinn_Storm> well aptitude is a console app
[10:31] <Quinn_Storm> its not bad
[10:32] <Quinn_Storm> I personally can't quite shun gtk, gaim is just too good and kopete is just too bad
[10:32] <Neil3> just need to get samba sorted and i think that's it
[10:32] <Neil3> yeah gaim is nice
[10:32] <Neil3> kopete is ok
[10:33] <Quinn_Storm> I even did some patch work on kopete (they haven't comitted it yet b/c they have a lot of stuff they are doing) but for now gaim is just more functional
[10:33] <Neil3> cool
[10:33] <Neil3> i only use it on msn
[10:33] <Quinn_Storm> yeah thats the one protocol kopete is good at
[10:42] <Neil3> i'll brb thanks for your help
[11:26] <hunger> kubuntu is really nice... if only ubuntu as a base was better!
[11:26] <Kaiser_essen> ??
[11:27] <hunger> Kamping_Kaiser: Broken packages, broken bugtracker, no decent bug reporting tool, ...
[11:27] <Kamping_Kaiser> i dont have any broken packages
[11:28] <hunger> Kamping_Kaiser: I do... and I can not even report bugs since the bugtracker is so terribly slow/broken.
[11:28] <Kamping_Kaiser> the bug trackers not great, i agree there.
[11:29] <Kamping_Kaiser> try fix your install
[11:29] <Kamping_Kaiser> yes ^^
[11:29] <Neil3> yeah kubuntu is nice but a little rough around the edges
[11:29] <Neil3> konqueror crashes sometimes
[11:29] <hunger> Then I can head back to debian/unstable and wouldn't need to bother with ubuntu.
[11:30] <hunger> Neil3: I am more concerned about -dev packages without all the necessary files... I can not even build my own stuff on ubuntu anymore!
[12:13] <Neil3> does konqueror have a popup blocker?
[12:31] <Riddell> Neil3: yes
[12:31] <Riddell> hidden under javascript in Settings
[12:33] <Tm_T> hullo
[12:34] <Neil3> okie
[12:34] <Neil3> cheers
[12:34] <Neil3> now trying to get midi playback working
[12:34] <Neil3> argh
[12:38] <verden01> does anyone know the proper name of kdiskfree?
[12:38] <verden01> it shows you your partitions
[12:41] <`TUX``> riddel  are  you  the  kynaptic  devel?
[12:41] <`TUX``> is there a  wish  list?
[12:41] <`TUX``> :)
[12:42] <`TUX``> i think no :D
[01:27] <verden01> anyone installed vmware in kubuntu?
[01:29] <roel_s> verden01 - Installed it in Ubuntu (shouldn't make a difference though)
[01:30] <BlackLabel> hi verden01
[01:30] <roel_s> verden01, having clock problems?
[01:32] <verden01> robin__, no i'm not
[01:32] <verden01> hey BlackLabel 
[01:32] <BlackLabel> verden01: whats up
[01:33] <verden01> nm just made kubuntu my primary distro
[01:33] <roel_s> good choice ;-)
[01:34] <Ins|de> hi there
[01:34] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi
[01:34] <verden01> i installed it on my 160 GB drive and let kubuntu do th epartitioning and i have a 3.1GB swap partition
[01:35] <Kamping_Kaiser> overkill ;)
[01:35] <verden01> yeah i don't know why it di dthat
[01:35] <roel_s> that's a bit swap - how much RAM did you conigure?
[01:35] <roel_s> big swap... i mean
[01:35] <verden01> in vmware?
[01:36] <roel_s> yep
[01:36] <verden01> 800mb
[01:37] <Ins|de> i have some ugly stuff when i open my kcontrol for example, i see something like <![CDATA["";/* kde_infopage.css*/ (...) on the top and the information (in html or something) all distorted, does anyone know where is file located ?  
[01:37] <roel_s> hm - then i don't know why (k)ubuntu uses so much swap...
[01:37] <Ins|de> sorry, my english is not the better :\
[01:37] <verden01> i have 1GB ram on my computer 
[01:37] <verden01> 2 x 512
[01:38] <verden01> and kubuntu gave me a 3.1 GB swap 
[01:38] <Kamping_Kaiser> its a 160 gb hdd. couldnt think of anything else to put there i expect
[01:38] <roel_s> It ought to set it to 2 G max - but then again, 3 G is not a problem. Just a waste of space
[01:38] <verden01> i suppose
[01:39] <verden01> when i set partitions up myself i usually make the swap 1GB
[01:39] <Choubaka> I don't even have swap ;P
[01:39] <verden01> :)
[01:40] <Kamping_Kaiser> :O
[01:40] <roel_s> :-o
[01:40] <verden01> :--)
[01:40] <roel_s> 1GB should do fine
[01:40] <verden01> :--)0
[01:40] <verden01> i agree
[01:40] <Choubaka> Why have any swap at all with that amount of RAM?
[01:41] <Kamping_Kaiser> safety
[01:41] <Choubaka> I've never needed swap with 512MB
[01:41] <verden01> anyway i guess i'll never use hardly any space
[01:41] <Kamping_Kaiser> choubaka. i use my swap
[01:41] <Choubaka> of course, if you want suspend and stuff like that you need swap
[01:41] <ian|static> Riddell: thanks :)
[01:42] <roel_s> exactly
[01:42] <Choubaka> Kamping_Kaiser: what are the cases where you need it? :p
[01:43] <BlackLabel> what does swap do anyway
[01:43] <Kamping_Kaiser> i run apache, multiple users (ssh only)
[01:43] <Kamping_Kaiser> and half a dozen toher servers
[01:43] <BlackLabel> is it like virtual memory?
[01:43] <Kamping_Kaiser> yes
[01:43] <Choubaka> Kamping_Kaiser: ahaa
[01:44] <Choubaka> Well, servers need swap
[01:44] <Kamping_Kaiser> yes. :)
[01:44] <Choubaka> but not desktops :/
[01:44] <roel_s> e.g. if you run out RAM-space, swap takes over
[01:44] <Choubaka> not often at least.
[01:44] <Kamping_Kaiser> not a standard desktop anyway. unless you start doing things through wine/cedega
[01:44] <Choubaka> that is, unless you do video editing with less than 2GB ram or something. 
[01:44] <Choubaka> Kamping_Kaiser: I can play games too fine without swap :)
[01:45] <Kamping_Kaiser> :) if you have no swap and runs out of room, the system uses /tmp space its cool
[01:46] <Choubaka> someday we won't need any swap!
[01:46] <Choubaka> We'll have a dozen GBs of persistent RAM 
[01:46] <BlackLabel> does mac os x use swap?
[01:46] <roel_s> Let's swap it!
[01:47] <roel_s> One day we won't need harddisks...
[01:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol
[01:47] <Choubaka> yeah. We mirror data on the internet :P
[01:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> blacklabel. i think so
[01:47] <Choubaka> persistent RAM would be cool
[01:47] <roel_s> lol
[01:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> i expect so
[01:47] <Choubaka> power outage -> power up, continue exactly where you left off.
[01:47] <roel_s> And now for something completely different: Anyone having problems with Konqueror filemanager crashing all the time?
[01:48] <thoreauputic> BlackLabel: yes, but quite a small amount of swap
[01:48] <thoreauputic> according to gkrellm in Mac-OS-X
[01:48] <BlackLabel> ok
[01:48] <thoreauputic> mind you  I have 768MB of ram....
[01:48] <thoreauputic> on my iBook
[01:49] <roel_s> Damn, I hate to be the only one...
[01:49] <BlackLabel> u got tiger?
[01:49] <thoreauputic> No, I have 10.3
[01:49] <BlackLabel> ok
[01:49] <thoreauputic> Panther or whatever it is
[01:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> tigers not out
[01:50] <thoreauputic> I don't run it much - I prefer Ubuntu
[01:50] <BlackLabel> to mac os, you must have it setup pretty good?
[01:50] <thoreauputic> I use Mac on Linux sometimes
[01:51] <thoreauputic> BlackLabel: I don't like the way the file system hierarchy works in OS-X, and too much is hidden by default
[01:51] <BlackLabel> mac on linux? how do u do that
[01:51] <BlackLabel> yea
[01:51] <thoreauputic> BlackLabel: like dot files
[01:52] <BlackLabel> yea
[01:52] <thoreauputic> Mac on Linux is a virtual machine that runs OS-X on the linux kernel at the same time as linux
[01:53] <thoreauputic> on separate virtual tty of course 7 and 8b usually
[01:53] <BlackLabel> yea
[01:53] <thoreauputic> not 8b - typo 
[01:53] <BlackLabel> interesting
[01:53] <thoreauputic> I meant 8
[01:53] <BlackLabel> yea i guessed
[01:54] <thoreauputic> you can run it in a nested window if you prefer
[01:54] <BlackLabel> yea
[01:54] <thoreauputic> but it's slower
[01:54] <kamz> konqueror crashes when I try to play movie clips...i have installed the win32 codecs, etc...does anyone have any ideas to help?
[01:54] <thoreauputic> It runs at native speed as far as I can tell
[01:55] <BlackLabel> it has to be run using kubuntu-ppc eh?
[01:55] <BlackLabel> well not just kubuntu 
[01:55] <BlackLabel> but the powerpc version?
[01:55] <thoreauputic> BlackLabel: I run standard ubuntu on my mac :)
[01:56] <thoreauputic> ppc version, yes
[01:56] <roel_s> use firefox ... :-)
[01:56] <roel_s> kamz, use firefox ... :-)
[01:57] <kamz> roel_s: firefox seems to have too many gnome/gtk dependencies, i was trying to avoid it
[01:57] <roel_s> kamz, I had a lot of problems with it too - until I started using firefox with kaffeine
[01:57] <BlackLabel> my hdd in my amd 2400 laptop died and i was thinking of only install kubuntu to it, but i dunno if my apps will work properly on it
[01:57] <BlackLabel> once i get a replacement hdd
[01:57] <roel_s> know what you mean... however, it's a damn fine browser
[01:58] <kamz> yeah
[01:58] <kamz> i actually prefer firefox, but i liked the idea of having a clean kde/qt system
[01:58] <roel_s> my web banking was not working properly in konqueror either - it works fine in firefox
[01:59] <roel_s> funny, me too - but I'm afraid that's not possible
[01:59] <kamz> yeah too bad eh? i'll give it a shot then, firefox is always good advice
[01:59] <kamz> thanks
[01:59] <kamz> gotta go, exam time
[01:59] <roel_s> you might wanna try to download firefox and install it instead of using apt-get
[02:00] <roel_s> too late...
[02:04] <ztonzy> hi
[02:04] <ztonzy>  what do I need under KDE to change fontsize and themes for GTK apps ??
[02:04] <Kamping_Kaiser> good one mate ;)
[02:04] <Kamping_Kaiser> bbs
[02:06] <bhna> ztonzy: gtk2-engines-gtk-qt
[02:07] <ztonzy> bhna, trhanks
[02:13] <verden01> if i do the new upgrade for kdelibs etc does it stuff up my kubuntu deskltop?
[02:14] <Anlar> shouldn't do that.
[02:14] <verden01> k :)
[02:14] <Cowlike> verden01, it did mess mine up. I don't know the "right" way to fix that but I ended up removing ~/.kde to fix it
[02:15] <Cowlike> everything on the panel was gone, even the "K" button
[02:15] <Neil3> it messed up mine too
[02:15] <Cowlike> i removed ~/.kde and restarted X
[02:15] <verden01> i have done a ne winstall but it stuffed mine up as well
[02:16] <verden01> Cowlike, did your desktop return to normal after you deleted ~/ .kde?
[02:16] <Cowlike> yes, it did
[02:16] <Cowlike> after the X restart
[02:16] <verden01> cool
[02:17] <verden01> i might do the upgrade then
[02:17] <Cowlike> I was pissed that I might have to end up doing a reinstall so I just tried it, figuring that it might be a conflict between versions with the config data in .kde
[02:17] <Cowlike> seemed to work
[02:17] <verden01> :)
[02:17] <Cowlike> well... it DID work
[02:18] <Cowlike> actually, I renamed it, just in case :)
[02:18] <Cowlike> it just got recreated and everything was fine
[02:18] <verden01> have you done another update and upgrade since?
[02:18] <Cowlike> yes
[02:18] <Cowlike> see that script in the title of this channel?
[02:18] <Cowlike> kdelibs-debug.sh?
[02:19] <verden01> yeah
[02:19] <Cowlike> there was some bug where a particular file wasn't getting updated. don't know if that's fixed now but I was having that problem too and the script fixed that
[02:19] <Cowlike> forces an update
[02:19] <verden01> k
[02:20] <Cowlike> never had any problems since
[02:20] <verden01> Cowlike, what do you think of kubuntu?
[02:21] <james13> Is there a VNC viewer package for kubuntu?
[02:22] <Anlar> kde desktop has integrated cnv viewer.
[02:22] <Anlar> vnc.
[02:22] <Anlar> it's called krdc.
[02:22] <james13> Anlar, thank you
[02:23] <bhna> verden01: http://moba.linuxfaqs.de/kdelibs-debug.sh 
[02:23] <verden01> k  thanx
[02:24] <james13> Anlar, I just brought it up.  Thank you very much
[02:30] <kkathman> Good morning all :) (at least here its morning) :)
[02:34] <bhna> kkathman: where is here?
[02:41] <kkathman> bhna: Texas
[02:42] <bhna> kkathman: here is germany ;-)
[02:42] <Kamping_Kaiser> heh
[02:43] <Kamping_Kaiser> bhana, so its luchtime there?
[02:43] <bhna> Kamping_Kaiser: 2:43 pm
[02:44] <Kamping_Kaiser> ok. :) sounds right. here its 22:14
[02:44] <bhna> Kamping_Kaiser: where?
[02:45] <Kamping_Kaiser> central Australia
[02:45] <bhna> Kamping_Kaiser: ah nice! Kaiser sounds very german
[02:46] <Kamping_Kaiser> :) it is.
[02:46] <Kamping_Kaiser> so is the rest of my name
[02:47] <bhna> Kamping_Kaiser: are you a german or your parents?
[02:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> dad
[02:47] <BlackLabel> Kamping_Kaiser: r u on adsl2?
[02:48] <Kamping_Kaiser> im not.
[02:48] <BlackLabel> ok
[02:48] <Kamping_Kaiser> my exchange wont do it
[02:48] <bhna> Kamping_Kaiser: do you speak german?
[02:49] <Kamping_Kaiser> a little.
[02:49] <BlackLabel> sik heil
[02:49] <bhna> Kamping_Kaiser: dann wuensche ich dir ein schoenes wochenende ;-)
[02:49] <Kamping_Kaiser> where in germany are you from? bhna
[02:50] <bhna> BlackLabel: sieg heil :-(
[02:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> :) danke, 
[02:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> but i dont remember much written german ;)
[02:50] <BlackLabel> whats it mean anyway bhna
[02:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> sie heil? or sik heil?
[02:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> i salute you
[02:50] <bhna> Kamping_Kaiser: thuringia in the middle of germany, former east-germany, the town is jena
[02:51] <Kamping_Kaiser> == sie heil
[02:51] <BlackLabel> its what hitler says
[02:51] <Kamping_Kaiser> :|
[02:51] <Kamping_Kaiser> bhna. cool
[02:51] <bhna> Kamping_Kaiser: why do you know the town?
[02:51] <Kamping_Kaiser> i know a *little* about germay. 
[02:52] <Kamping_Kaiser> i may have been there, but that was 10 years ago
[02:52] <bhna> Kamping_Kaiser: this is my hometown http://www.jena.de/
[02:53] <Kamping_Kaiser> sweet. website :)
[03:01] <Tm_T> :)
[03:05] <Ins|de> hi there, i have a problem with my kde, every html presented in konkeror or another applicatio is messed up, realy strange problem, and some menus disapeared, can anybody help? i'm using kde3.4 with ubuntu hoary, i have this problem since i updated kubuntu
[03:05] <jmjones> has anyone had problems with sound in kubunutu?  I can play an audio cd, but can't play .ogg files and I tested kaffeine on a movie trailer and no audio.
[03:06] <UnreA|L> try type alsamixer
[03:07] <Tm_T> http://www.spreadfirefox.com/fifty.html
[03:08] <jmjones> UnreA|L - ok - what am i looking for
[03:08] <Tm_T> jmjones: heh, actually I listen ogg atm ;)
[03:10] <Neil3> hey folks can someone please paste the contents of '/etc/rcS.d/S07hdparm' into http://pastebin.com/ - i accidentally deleted mine!
[03:12] <Tm_T> oh!
[03:13] <uniq> neom: it's just a link.. ln-s /etc/init.d/rc.S.d/S07hdparm /etc/rcS.d/S07hdparm
[03:13] <uniq> err.. that was for neil3.
[03:13] <neom> :|
[03:13] <Neil3> thanks
[03:13] <Neil3> hehe
[03:13] <Neil3> oops
[03:13] <uniq> ehmd,, 
[03:14] <uniq>  ln -s /etc/init.d/hdparm /etc/rcS.d/S07hdparm 
[03:14] <uniq> of course.
[03:14] <uniq> neil3 ^^
[03:15] <Neil3> oh cool
[03:15] <uniq> my bad.
[03:15] <Neil3> its just a link
[03:15] <uniq> yes.
[03:15] <uniq>  /etc/init.d/hdparm is the real file.
[03:15] <Neil3> sweeeeeeeet
[03:15] <Neil3> hehe i thought i was screwed for a moment
[03:15] <Neil3> cool i can make a link for samba too since it isnt starting at boot
[03:16] <uniq> use update-rc.d
[03:16] <uniq> update-rc.d samba defaults
[03:16] <Neil3> ok
[03:16] <uniq> will make samba startat boot.
[03:16] <Neil3> nice one thanks
[03:16] <uniq> update-rc.d -f samba remove
[03:17] <uniq> will remove it from boot.
[03:17] <Tm_T> http://www.xitimonitor.com/images/etudes/equipement6.gif
[03:17] <Tm_T> =)
[03:17] <Tm_T> Finland o/
[03:18] <Tm_T> (percentage of FF users)
[03:18] <Neil3> great thanks a million uniq
[03:18] <Neil3> i'll brb gonna reboot to test
[03:19] <kkathman> hi there Tm_T :)
[03:20] <Tm_T> hullo :)
[03:22] <Neil3> thanks uniq, works like a charm!!
[03:22] <Tm_T> :)
[03:23] <kkathman> Feeling better today Tm_T ??
[03:26] <macbobby> hi, ich nochmal...wie kann ich mich im Ubuntu als root in der console anmelden?
[03:26] <macbobby> sry
[03:27] <kkathman> Tm_T: do you run the gkrellm monitor by any chance?
[03:29] <Tm_T> in my other computer yes
[03:30] <Tm_T> but I like to use TORSMO :)
[03:31] <kkathman> Tm_T:  Well, I use Thunderbird for my email, and got that configured in gkrellm. But obviously gkrellm still wants to use /var/mail/username.  I have about 6 msgs in my "mail" is there a command to get rid of that mail?
[03:31] <kkathman> or do you just rm that file?
[03:31] <Tm_T> kkathman: it's your local mail I think...
[03:31] <kkathman> right
[03:31] <Tm_T> just say "mail" in Konsole ;)
[03:32] <kkathman> ahh ok..kinda goofy  lol
[03:32] <Tm_T> not really
[03:36] <kkathman> howdy Diablo-D3  :)
[03:36] <Diablo-D3> hey
[03:44] <roel_s> Anyone having problems with Konqueror filemanager crashing all the time?
[03:46] <kkathman> roel_s: cant say that I have ever had a problem with it
[03:46] <kkathman> roel_s: but then I do about 90% of my file management through FileRunner or through the Konsole
[03:48] <roel_s> kkathman, me too - however, I have some lo-fi users that use konqueror...
[03:48] <kkathman> roel_s: I do use konq to transfer files around on my network (i.e. samba shares) tho, and havent had any probs there
[03:49] <kkathman> roel_s: but we get  a few questions on that every day, so it must be a real issue of some sort
[03:50] <roel_s> i've seen some messages on the kde bug-lists, however noone has come up with a solution yet
[03:52] <kkathman> roel_s: I suspect that most of those glitches are random, and thus very difficult to track down. If it isnt repeatable, its hard to fix.
[03:53] <roel_s> yep
[03:53] <Diablo-D3> one whacked remix: http://www.nathanchase.com/2005/04/ghost-that-feedsray-parker-jrs.html
[03:54] <sproingie> wow, safari passes acid2.  khtml is now more css compliant than mozilla
[03:55] <Diablo-D3> lol
[03:55] <Diablo-D3> I just wish they would backport that to kde's branch
[03:55] <sproingie> they will
[03:55] <kkathman> Amen
[03:55] <Diablo-D3> wait, sproingie, do you have that copy of sarfari handy?
[03:55] <sproingie> nope, don't have a mac
[03:55] <Diablo-D3> damn
[03:55] <Diablo-D3> http://shadowconflict.blogspot.com/
[03:55] <Diablo-D3> look at that in firefox and konq
[03:57] <Anlar> blank page. interesting.
[03:57] <sproingie> hm.  is the author using correct css, or compensating for mozilla?
[03:57] <Anlar> no, wait.. there it is.
[03:58] <Diablo-D3> I am the author
[03:58] <Diablo-D3> its correct css afaik
[03:58] <Diablo-D3> khtml used to puke even harder on that
[03:58] <Anlar> the whole xhtml is very broken
[03:58] <sproingie> i hesitate to speculate how it looks on IE
[03:58] <roel_s> Works fine for me in firefox
[03:58] <Anlar> so it even shouldn't look anything.
[03:58] <Diablo-D3> it bombs on IE
[03:58] <Diablo-D3> infact, it even displays a warning telling it to upgrade to firefox
[03:58] <Anlar> http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fshadowconflict.blogspot.com%2F quite obviously the whole page is crap.
[03:58] <kkathman> looks better in firefox than Konq here..but that might just be a font issue
[03:58] <Neil3> looks good in konq
[03:59] <sproingie> konq renders it a whole lot purtier for me
[03:59] <sproingie> kde's font AA doesn't happen in ff
[03:59] <Diablo-D3> Anlar: last time I noticed w3's validator is triggering on stuff that doesnt affect layout
[04:00] <Anlar> of course.
[04:00] <sproingie> wonder how opera 8 does
[04:00] <Diablo-D3> opera 8 minorly chokes iirc
[04:00] <Diablo-D3> wtf is with my connection
[04:00] <kkathman> Opera does fine here...looks very nice
[04:00] <sproingie> tho only my work machine could really use opera ... ff goes berzerk regularly, eats >100 megs ram
[04:01] <sproingie> at home it seems to behave
[04:01] <sproingie> or it could be that my home machine is just so much faster
[04:01] <Diablo-D3> AHAHAHAH
[04:01] <Diablo-D3> oh boy
[04:01] <Diablo-D3> w3 is triggering on a url
[04:01] <Diablo-D3> 56 errors for a single url
[04:01] <sproingie> wow.  thats one evil url
[04:01] <Diablo-D3> but for the record, those dont effect the layout
[04:02] <Diablo-D3> hrm, actually, its just one blog entry
[04:02] <kkathman> I seem to experience poor font resolution  when I have a light, thin font on a dark background...kinda irritating
[04:02] <Diablo-D3> I'll go fix those later
[04:02] <sproingie> firefox's nasty selection behavior is really evident in your blog
[04:03] <Diablo-D3> blogger should automatically fix those anyhow
[04:03] <sproingie> i can't reliably select anything, it freaks out and starts extending it up or down the page
[04:03] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: hah?
[04:03] <sproingie> konq behaves itself
[04:03] <Diablo-D3> that doesnt do it for me
[04:03] <sproingie> it's been a long gripe of mine with ff, that its way too zealous about extending the selection
[04:03] <Diablo-D3> infact it wont let me extend the selection at all
[04:03] <sproingie> IE is braindamaged in the other direction
[04:04] <kkathman> IE still hasnt embraced CSS2 completely...again, very irritating
[04:04] <sproingie> in fact there's a number of bugs associated with the extension
[04:04] <Diablo-D3> go look at the blog in IE on windows
[04:04] <Diablo-D3> look at the warning on the top ;)
[04:04] <sproingie> like when the extension is somehow green instead of normal, and it behaves different
[04:05] <sproingie> or when selecting locks up the browser for several seconds, and when you get control back, it's basically disabled for that page
[04:05] <Diablo-D3> hah
[04:06] <Diablo-D3> well, look at the html thats commnented out at the top
[04:06] <Diablo-D3> you'll know it when you see it
[04:06] <Diablo-D3> it uses a completely safe msie hack
[04:06] <Diablo-D3> I probably should extend that to remove all css, though
[04:07] <sproingie> Diablo-D3: favorite mecha: does the glitterboy count as a mecha?
[04:07] <da_bon_bon> Riddell: are u here ?
[04:08] <sproingie> is more of an "armored suit" than "pilotable robot".  does have a Big Freaking Gun though
[04:08] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: hrm, bet it could
[04:09] <Riddell> da_bon_bon: for now
[04:10] <da_bon_bon> Riddell: saw the screen shot ?
[04:10] <sproingie> i think battletech sort of lost its way with the clan invasion
[04:10] <Riddell> da_bon_bon: of the website?
[04:10] <sproingie> mechs were supposed to be cargo cult technology, no one could build them, just salvage them
[04:10] <da_bon_bon> Riddell: of the os selection menu in reboot
[04:10] <Diablo-D3> no, it lost its way when they got sued, sued, sued and then bought out
[04:10] <Riddell> da_bon_bon: oh yes, don't know what turns that on
[04:10] <sproingie> well thats when it died, yes
[04:11] <amichai> i just installed the kernel 2.6.10-5-k7 yet when i do uname -r i get 2.6.10-5-386
[04:11] <da_bon_bon> Riddell: oh ok.. someone told me its a new feature of kdm or something
[04:11] <amichai> which was my previous one, any ideas?
[04:11] <sproingie> i used to play a cross between battletech and ogre.  mecha make sense when you think of 'em as having to withstand nuclear blasts every few minutes
[04:11] <Diablo-D3> hehe
[04:12] <sproingie> basically walking GEV's
[04:12] <amichai> how i choose which kernel to use? i have two
[04:13] <sproingie> amichai: does it show up in grub?
[04:13] <chavo> amichai, the newest one you installed will become the default, the next time you reboot.
[04:14] <amichai> chavo, it didnt though. 
[04:14] <amichai> chavo, woah wait a minute
[04:14] <amichai> chavo, damn i still havent rebooted....machine was on all night....lol
[04:14] <sproingie> doh
[04:14] <chavo> aha
[04:15] <amichai> what do i type to find out how long i've been logged on?
[04:15] <amichai> the machine i mean, not my user
[04:15] <sproingie> uptime
[04:15] <chavo> uptime
[04:15] <amichai> 17:16:03 up 1 day,
[04:16] <amichai> go figure
[04:16] <amichai> thanx guys :)
[05:43] <BleSS> hi!
[05:43] <BleSS> I need info about input devices to build x configuration: http://rafb.net/paste/results/4LU1p385.nln.html
[05:44] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi bless. build x config?
[05:45] <BleSS> Kamping_Kaiser, X configuration file
[05:45] <Kamping_Kaiser> dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
[06:06] <kkathman> is there a reason why artsd conitnues to respawn, even though I dont use or have any sound device running on my system?
[06:06] <Diablo-D3> because it hates you
[06:06] <kkathman> lol :)
[06:07] <kkathman> and I feed it, and care for and give it lots of love and attention too...sigh
[06:11] <kkathman> artsd reminds me alot of that dang davcdata in windoz  always restarts whether you need it or not :)
[06:35] <theD3viL> any1 have problems with apollon?
[06:37] <Diablo-D3> hrm
[06:37] <Diablo-D3> whats the official kde media player in kubuntu?
[06:37] <theD3viL> hm
[06:37] <kkathman> hmmm Kaffeine?
[06:37] <theD3viL> yes.
[06:37] <Diablo-D3> I mean like xmms type media players
[06:38] <kkathman> KScd?
[06:38] <Chin2> I use xmms or amaroK
[06:38] <Diablo-D3> I'm trying to ditch xmms
[06:38] <kkathman> there are several distributed standardly
[06:39] <Diablo-D3> thats retarded
[06:39] <theD3viL> Diablo-D3: can i use ALSA in amaroK ?
[06:39] <kkathman> gotta watch kaffeine tho, it stays around even after you close it..you have to pkill it
[06:39] <Diablo-D3> probably
[06:39] <Chin2> I'm using ALSA in amaroK
[06:39] <Diablo-D3> it supports gstreamer
[06:39] <kkathman> amarok is good for mp3s etc
[06:39] <theD3viL> Chin2: how you install it?
[06:39] <Diablo-D3> anything that uses gstreamer supports everything
[06:40] <Chin2> synaptic?
[06:40] <theD3viL> k
[06:40] <Diablo-D3> yeah, theD3viL needs to change his nick
[06:41] <kkathman> you can do an apt-get on alsaplayer too if you want
[06:41] <theD3viL> :>
[06:41] <kkathman> if you want the base config files...the package is alsa-base
[06:42] <kkathman> or gstreamer0.8-alsa isn the plugin
[06:42] <theD3viL> alsaplayer-alsa ?
[06:42] <Chin2> I was just listening to a netlabel release in amaroK...it somehow managed to download the cover artwork!
[06:42] <Chin2> amazing...
[06:42] <kkathman> Chin2: yeh...seen that..that IS nice
[06:43] <Chin2> it's such an obscure tune, too
[06:44] <Chin2> and *how* it manages to recommend tunes that are just right is beyond me
[06:44] <kkathman> the new libclairvoyant module
[06:44] <Diablo-D3> oh thats just easy
[06:44] <Chin2> he he
[06:44] <Diablo-D3> it uses music brainz
[06:45] <Chin2> oh, that's what that brain thing is
[06:45] <theD3viL> can anybody play 2 sounds at same time? i cant :(
[06:45] <Diablo-D3> I can
[06:45] <theD3viL> how is that impossible ?
[06:45] <Diablo-D3> but then again, I have stuff setup properly to do so
[06:45] <Chin2> yeah, I can too
[06:45] <theD3viL> how??
[06:46] <Chin2> I don't know, alright? I just press stuff :)
[06:46] <Diablo-D3> well, you have three choices
[06:46] <Chin2> he he
[06:46] <Chin2> check your control center settings
[06:46] <Diablo-D3> one is use arts for everything
[06:46] <Diablo-D3> two is use dmix
[06:46] <Diablo-D3> three is get a soundcard that natively multiplexes
[06:47] <theD3viL> hm... i havent got arts in my control centre.. i have only ALSA, OSS etc.
[06:47] <Diablo-D3> in what control center?
[06:47] <Diablo-D3> arts is the kde sound daemon
[06:48] <theD3viL> i know but i must select it in control centre / sound
[06:48] <theD3viL> or what ?
[06:49] <Chin2> theD3viL, what audio device are you using (control center)?
[06:49] <Diablo-D3> _what_ control center?
[06:49] <theD3viL> ALSA
[06:49] <Diablo-D3> you mean kcontrol?
[06:49] <theD3viL> chin2: ALSA
[06:49] <Chin2> ok
[06:49] <theD3viL> Diablo-D3: yes,
[06:49] <Chin2> Diablo, it's called control center here, are you using KDE 3.3 or something?
[06:49] <Diablo-D3> theD3viL: the sound control panel tells arts what to use
[06:50] <Diablo-D3> theD3viL: then you tell all other apps to use arts for output
[06:50] <theD3viL> aha...
[06:50] <Chin2> shouldn't that be autoconfigured in most cases anyway?
[06:50] <Diablo-D3> Chin2: yes, it should
[06:52] <Chin2> hey, is there an easy way to figure out what app is hogging my CPU?
[06:53] <Diablo-D3> top
[06:53] <theD3viL> ALSA device "default" is used by another app.... wtf ?
[06:54] <Chin2> whoa...Diablo-D3, that is cool
[06:54] <Diablo-D3> you can use > and < to change what column its sorted by
[06:54] <Chin2> darn artsd!
[06:55] <Chin2> Diablo-D3, how do you know which column it's sorting by?
[06:56] <Diablo-D3> I have mine autobold
[06:56] <Chin2> how do you do that?
[06:57] <Diablo-D3> um
[06:57] <Diablo-D3> I forget actually
[06:57] <Chin2> that's okay
[06:57] <Diablo-D3> ahh press B
[06:58] <Chin2> cool, thanks
[07:00] <Chin2> dang, I'll bet there are a ton of cool commands like 'top' that I don't even know about :)
[07:01] <Diablo-D3> yeah probably
[07:34] <da_didi> hey all
[07:35] <da_didi> day two with kubuntu and it is still installed :)
[07:35] <da_didi> i just miss sshd
[07:35] <da_didi> is there a sshd?
[07:37] <Choubaka> of course.
[07:37] <Choubaka> sudo apt-get install ssh
[07:37] <Choubaka> you may have it installed already :p
[07:38] <da_didi> hmm, openssh-server was missing
[07:38] <da_didi> thx
[07:40] <Choubaka> :)
[07:40] <Choubaka> I have been a Debianist throughout my Linux career.
[07:42] <kubluntnex> are there a list of ubuntu repository i can use?
[07:42] <Choubaka> kubluntnex: archive.ubuntu.com?
[07:43] <da_didi> Choubaka: after suse and mandrake, i was a gentoo-user for long time and since one year now debian. But it looks like, the debian times ends now :)
[07:43] <Chin2> kubluntnex: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/AptGetOrg
[07:43] <kubluntnex> thx al
[07:44] <Choubaka> da_didi: I see Ubuntu as Debian Desktop version. :D
[07:44] <kubluntnex> make that debian desktop for LAZY people :P
[07:44] <Choubaka> Why lazy? :p
[07:45] <kubluntnex> you know why... :P
[07:45] <Choubaka> I like not having to tweak stuff unnecessarily.
[07:45] <kubluntnex> thats lazy by choice :)
[07:45] <Choubaka> and not having to download heaps of stuff every week to keep up to date is cool.
[07:45] <Choubaka> Damn, my English is degrading.
[07:45] <da_didi> Choubaka: sure, but some diffrents are there
[07:46] <Choubaka> I ought to read some literature to brush it up a bit.
[07:46] <Chin2> one important difference is that I talk in a South African accent when I use Ubuntu.
[07:46] <da_didi> lol
[07:46] <Choubaka> :D
[07:46] <kubluntnex> lol chin2
[07:47] <Choubaka> How is Ubuntu pronounced anyway?
[07:47] <Chin2> oooo boooon toooo
[07:47] <kubluntnex> chin2: you mean Afrikaans
[07:47] <Choubaka> Chin2: blah.
[07:47] <Chin2> no, I mean like bent Australian
[07:47] <Choubaka> that's the American pronunciation. 
[07:47] <kubluntnex> oeh boen toe
[07:48] <Chin2> you BUNT you
[07:48] <kubluntnex> blunt pls
[07:48] <Choubaka> Like all the people who pronounce Linux as "Lee-nux"
[07:48] <kubluntnex> lei nuks
[07:48] <Chin2> or Gentoo as zhentou
[07:49] <Chin2> I hate explaining knoppix to people, they think you have a disability when you pronounce that
[07:49] <Chin2> ubuntu = africa = toto = good group
[07:51] <Chin2> how do you pronounce "gkrellm"?
[07:51] <Diablo-D3> gee krellim
[07:51] <kubluntnex> heh
[07:51] <kubluntnex> pronounciation lessons on irc
[07:51] <kubluntnex> -_-
[07:52] <Chin2> dang, this whole time I was like, "G.K.R ellim"
[07:52] <Chin2> what a dork
[07:52] <Choubaka> I pronounce it "gekrelm"
[07:52] <kubluntnex> gkrlm 
[07:52] <Choubaka> though that doesnt help you since it's supposed to be read the Finnish way 
[07:52] <Choubaka> hmm
[07:52] <Choubaka> geek-realm
[07:52] <Chin2> right now my gkrellm duck is floating upside down
[07:52] <Choubaka> that's good.
[07:53] <Choubaka> anyone know if there will be a xubuntu btw? :D
[07:53] <kubluntnex> yes
[07:53] <kubluntnex> for xfce4
[07:53] <Choubaka> \o/
[07:54] <Anlar> uhh.. crap
[07:54] <Choubaka> xfce4 is my favourite.
[07:54] <kubluntnex> eubuntu if e17 is done
[07:54] <Diablo-D3> xfce4 sucks
[07:54] <Diablo-D3> e17 sucks
[07:54] <Diablo-D3> gnome sucks
[07:54] <Diablo-D3> kde sucks
[07:54] <Diablo-D3> gnustep sucks
[07:54] <Chin2> there is a eubuntu?
[07:54] <Diablo-D3> THEY ALL SUCK
[07:54] <Choubaka> true :p
[07:54] <kubluntnex> xpbuntu is xpde is done
[07:54] <Choubaka> xfce4 just sucks the least!
[07:54] <kubluntnex> :P
[07:54] <Choubaka> Disclaimer: YMMVG
[07:55] <kubluntnex> bbl
[07:55] <Chin2> xfce4 is cool until you open that ugly app menu
[07:56] <Choubaka> haha :D
[07:56] <Choubaka> I don't use the menus
[07:56] <Choubaka> alt-f2 and type the app name
[07:56] <Choubaka> way faster.
[08:03] <carsten> Hi. Fluxbox is not in the default repo, right?
[08:12] <Far^Side> is this: http://moba.linuxfaqs.de/kdelibs-debug.sh needed for the Breezy Badger?
[08:34] <_juergen> rtl8180 got driver?
[08:53] <whiskers>  how come libvisual is still not in synaptic...how are the people ever going to learn how to use lives
[08:54] <whiskers> kkathman are you there today
[08:56] <Tm_T> whiskers: not in synaptic?
[08:56] <Tm_T> you mean, not in repos?
[08:58] <_manuel> hallo
[08:58] <_manuel> wie gehts?
[08:58] <whiskers> Tm_T, no...i had to go get the stuff as usual and build it here....i don't know why ubuntu doesn't supply a full lives build
[08:59] <whiskers> Tm_T, it is such an important linux program
[08:59] <Tm_T> hmm
[09:10] <whiskers> here is a url for anybody that doesn't think lives is an important program
[09:10] <whiskers> http://www.xs4all.nl/~salsaman/lives/
[09:12] <whiskers> but beware the sign at the bottom.....they do not like software patents
[09:16] <Tm_T> hmm, looks like ok thing
[09:18] <whiskers> Tm_T, yes it is very nice here....if the database people like kexi, knoda, pgaccess,  glom, and rekall could just get something really going....linux would would make a nice desktop os
[09:52] <whiskers> kkathman, are you here today
[10:05] <roel_s> anyone knows how to change the mute function in kmix in the systray?
[10:06] <whiskers> well it looks like ubuntu is still ranking #1....and gentoo #8...personally i think gentoo is the best...but this ubuntu is becoming more useful everyday
[10:06] <whiskers> here is the stats page
[10:07] <whiskers> http://distrowatch.com/
[10:16] <whiskers> who would have thought that the Africans at Ubuntu would beat all the other distros
[10:42] <whiskers> i see today...lives has prepared a deb file for ubuntu fans
[10:42] <whiskers> so they don't have to compile it all themselves
[10:42] <Diablo-D3> What the fucking hell.
[10:42] <Diablo-D3> kubuntu is officially on my shitlist
[10:43] <Quinn_Storm> Diablo-D3: why?
[10:43] <Diablo-D3> because it packages the arts engine for amarok
[10:43] <Diablo-D3> and it allows it to be installed
[10:43] <Anlar> it's gooood. 
[10:43] <Diablo-D3> its not good
[10:43] <Quinn_Storm> Diablo-D3: there's a glitch in the released version of amarok where it will show a blank string instead of the name of the current engine when it starts up
[10:44] <Diablo-D3> the arts engine _does not work_
[10:44] <Diablo-D3> it is _unmaintained_
[10:44] <Anlar> funny, I am using arts engine all the time and it works beautifully. even at this very moment. :)
[10:44] <Quinn_Storm> Diablo-D3: then install one of the other three
[10:44] <Diablo-D3> and since no where in fucking hell is this even listed, I just spent the last hour trying to make it work
[10:44] <Diablo-D3> Quinn_Storm: the gstreamer engine should be required
[10:44] <Anlar> arts engine is in fact the only one that I have installed. :) it works just awesome
[10:45] <Quinn_Storm> Diablo-D3: I use the xine engine myself...oh well
[10:45] <Diablo-D3> Anlar: oh stfu already
[10:45] <Diablo-D3> I swear to fucking god
[10:45] <Anlar> I actually got the arts engine on two computers here. didn't have to ever touch anything, they just work.
[10:45] <Diablo-D3> Im just going to go back to using xmms
[10:45] <shopeonarope> my network card is no longer configured and i can't seem to configure it properly, help please
[10:46] <Quinn_Storm> Diablo-D3: I'm sorry to hear that...I run amarok cvs and I'd like to help if I could...
[10:46] <whiskers> well i haven't rebooted in days...i think i should reboot and see if the system still comes up ok.
[10:46] <Diablo-D3> Quinn_Storm: I may hate xmms, but it atleast works out of the fucking box and plays mp3s
[10:48] <shopeonarope> are you done with school you said?
[10:49] <Diablo-D3> and why the fuck doesnt the gstreamer engine require gstreamer0.8-mad
[10:53] <Diablo-D3> You know, I was going to start recommending kubuntu to people
[10:53] <Diablo-D3> but fuck that shit
[10:53] <Diablo-D3> kubuntu is way too fucking buggy to push to unsuspecting users
[10:53] <Tm_T> ?
[10:53] <Tm_T> buggy?
[10:55] <Diablo-D3> anything that takes a fucking hour to get even approximately working the way it should is broken
[11:00] <whiskers> well i guess things are still working ok after making those lidb and libc changes...the system boots ok still
[11:00] <whiskers> i haven't checked everything but the basics seem ok
[11:00] <Anlar> took <5 seconds here. you must just suck.
[11:01] <whiskers> Anlar, no i was looking at something else
[11:01] <Diablo-D3> So.
[11:01] <Diablo-D3> hrn.
[11:01] <Diablo-D3> are there any maints for amarok here?
[11:01] <whiskers> Anlar, today there seems to be http://www.openclipart.org/ for all the lazy people that don't want to draw all those svg graphics
[11:01] <stupido> hello peeps, I appear to have a hosed kde since upgrading this afternoon
[11:01] <whiskers> Anlar, and they say it works with abi
[11:01] <whiskers> Anlar, i don't know
[11:02] <blueyed> Diablo-D3, try #ubuntu-motu
[11:02] <Diablo-D3> I think Im banned from there
[11:02] <stupido> couls anybody help me retrieve my desktop
[11:03] <whiskers> does kde have an svg program
[11:04] <Diablo-D3> why doesnt it?
[11:05] <blueyed> Diablo-D3, you can file package/dependency bugs at https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/distros/ubuntu/+filebug - I have also reported that amarok should depend on gstreamer rather than arts IIRC (in bugzilla.ubuntu.com).
[11:06] <Diablo-D3> yeah, I want arts just completely removed
[11:06] <Diablo-D3> its too dangerous to keep around
[11:06] <Diablo-D3> and its officially unmaintained and its broken
[11:07] <Anlar> works wonderful here. better than the gstreamer.
[11:07] <Diablo-D3> Anlar: and you're in a very small minority
[11:07] <Diablo-D3> its been removed in 1.3.x
[11:56] (closure/#kubuntu) seriously try not to listen to the flute in general it is an awful instrument unless precisely placed in music
[11:57] (Tm_T/#kubuntu) haha
[11:57] <Tm_T> do you really think you can convert me ] ;=
[11:57] <closure> dream theater is cool till that singer screws everything up
[11:57] <Tm_T> haha
[11:58] <Tm_T> how 'bout BC ?
[11:58] <closure> Tm_T, no but i feel that i should pass along wisdom
[11:58] <Tm_T> haha
[11:58] <closure> they're good
[11:58] <Tm_T> damn good!
[11:58] <closure> how did you use the accent on there?
[11:58] <Tm_T> accent?
[11:58] <closure> on the O
[11:58] <Tm_T> ah
[11:59] <closure> in windows it's like alt+####
[11:59] <closure> i never bothered
[11:59] <closure> is there an easy way in linux?
[11:59] <Tm_T> well, I'm finnish, and we have  keys in keyboard
[11:59] <closure> really?
[11:59] <Tm_T> yes
[11:59] <Tm_T> mt ei vhll tapeta l
[11:59] <Tm_T> ;p
[12:00] <closure> HIM is cool
[12:00] <closure> lol
[12:00] <Tm_T> HIM sucks
[12:00] <Tm_T> it's just pop
[12:00] <closure> i know of some other finnish artists i like but i can't think of them off the top of my head
[12:00] <closure> Tm_T, yeah goth pop lol
[12:00] <Tm_T> closure: Rasmus
[12:00] <Tm_T> closure: Nightwish
[12:00] <closure> nightwish is the shit
[12:01] <Tm_T> hah
[12:01] <closure> but they're losing that girl singer from what i understand
[12:01] <closure> she's going to become full on opera
[12:01] <Tm_T> closure: it was the whole idea from the beginning
[12:01] <Tm_T> back in early 90's
[12:01] <closure> Tm_T, what was?
[12:01] <Tm_T> that opera singing style
[12:02] <closure> yeah i know that
[12:02] <Tm_T> Nightwish sucks anyway
[12:02] <closure> what i'm saying is she is leaving the band and the guy who sang back up is going to come in as lead from what i understand
[12:02] <closure> Tm_T, i've always wanted to pay them to come do the music for the phantom of the opera
[12:02] <Tm_T> closure: no?
[12:02] <closure> it only costs 2500 to book them
[12:02] <Tm_T> :)
[12:03] <closure> i figure if i got them to come here to this one venue it would EASILY sell out
[12:03] <closure> people from all across the states would be at that shit
[12:03] <Tm_T> hmm, maybe it's time to listen some Led Zeppelin ->
[12:03] <closure> booking the stage performers would be the hard thing
[12:03] <closure> i think that costs just a tad more than 2500
[12:04] <closure> i'm guessing somewhere near 10k
[12:05] <Tm_T> umh
[12:05] <Tm_T> you know Wigwam?
[12:05] <closure> yeah
[12:05] <Tm_T> <3
[12:05] <closure> *shrugs*
[12:07] <Tm_T> hmm, I start to hate Dream Theater
[12:07] <Tm_T> might be too modern to me :p
[12:07] <closure> Tm_T, i do after about 5 minutes
[12:07] <Tm_T> haha
[12:07] <Tm_T> well, after 5 albums...
[12:07] <timlinux> Err http://security.ubuntu.com hoary-security Release.gpg
[12:07] <timlinux>   Connection failed [IP: 82.211.81.138 80] 
[12:08] <timlinux> can anyone tell me how to fix that?
[12:08] <closure> yep no idea
[12:08] <closure> Tm_T, http://www.archive.org/download/sts9-2005-03-26.akg483.flac16/sts9-2005-03-26.akg483.flac16_vbr.m3u that's what i'm listening to
[12:09] <timlinux> Riddell: is there a metapackage for all of koffice witht he repo you posted on the dot?
[12:09] <timlinux> apt-get install koffice?
[12:09] <timlinux> it only gives me kchart
[12:10] <closure> timlinux, i'm fairly sure you're going to have to wait for breezy
[12:10] <timlinux> closure: for which? koffice?
[12:10] <timlinux> is breezy next release name for kubuntu?
[12:11] <timlinux> whats that short for? breezy bunny?
[12:12] <Tm_T> closure: try again?
[12:13] <Tm_T> sorry, got confused
[12:13] <closure> timlinux, yes it's next
[12:13] <Neil3> woops
[12:13] <Neil3> well at least that works :)
[12:13] <closure> dude wtf calls someone at 6:13am
[12:14] <Tm_T> Led Zeppelin - Good Times Bad Times
[12:14] <Neil3> hehe
[12:14] <closure> they just said "good morning you get a chance give me a call bye"
[12:14] <Neil3> damn i love this distro
[12:14] <Neil3> all the apps work so nice together
[12:14] <Tm_T> Neil3: oh, np script works?
[12:14] <Neil3> yeah
[12:14] <Tm_T> yuk
[12:14] <Tm_T> script..
[12:14] <Neil3> its part of konversation
[12:14] <Neil3> i didnt even have to go find one
[12:15] <Neil3> which is awesome!!!
[12:15] <timlinux> Neil3: that thing is serious channel span though :-(
[12:15] <Tm_T> no, it terrible
[12:15] <Neil3> yeah
[12:15] <timlinux> s/span/spam
[12:15] <Tm_T> timlinux: it is
[12:15] <Neil3> was mainly a test
[12:15] <Tm_T> :)
[12:15] <timlinux> Neil3: it works :-)
[12:15] <Tm_T> yea yea
[12:15] <Neil3> aye
[12:16] <Tm_T> Neil3: you tried shoter script in amaroK?
[12:16] <Neil3> nope
[12:16] <Neil3> how many scripts does it come with?
[12:16] <Neil3> does it have a sysinfo one?
[12:16] <verden01> hey
[12:16] <Tm_T> amaroK?
[12:16] <Neil3> konversation
[12:16] <Tm_T> dunno I don't use it
[12:17] <Tm_T> I hate GUI irc-clients
[12:17] <Tm_T> verden01: hullo
[12:17] <verden01> hi again Tm_T 
[12:17] <Neil3> Qt: 3.3.3
[12:17] <Neil3> KDE: 3.4.0
[12:17] <Neil3> kde-config: 1.0
[12:17] <Neil3> hm thats an interesting one
[12:18] <Tm_T> what is
[12:18] <Neil3> the kdeversion script
[12:19] <Tm_T> plah
[12:19] <Tm_T> no use really :)
[12:22] <Neil3> yeah that is useless
[12:23] <Tm_T> I don't use scripts that have output into channels
[12:25] <Tm_T> membreya o7
[12:27] <bubi> something bothers me kynaptic and synaptic are basicaly the same am i right
[12:27] <bubi> just a gui for apt
[12:28] <_carsten> bubi: yes
[12:28] <_carsten> but kynaptic is missing some functionality while synaptic is ugly as hell :)
[12:28] <bubi> then why i havent option in kynaptic to manage repositories
[12:29] <bubi> ahh
[12:29] <bubi> u answered :P
[12:29] <_carsten> bubi: IMHO kynaptic is not mature enough to enable it in kubuntu
[12:29] <bubi> i agree
[12:29] <membreya> ellooo there Tm_T :)
[12:29] <membreya> kpackage all the way!
[12:30] <bubi> kpackage ?
[12:30] <_carsten> muhu, KDE will move to subversion this evening :)
[12:30] <_carsten> http://www.general.uwa.edu.au/u/toivo/kpackage/
[12:30] <membreya> bubi: more ...much more advanced than synaptic and kynaptic :)
[12:31] <bubi> for apt
[12:31] <bubi> ?
[12:32] <_carsten> Kpackage is a KDE tool for installing, viewing and uninstalling packages. The formats supported include RPM, Debian, Slackware and BSD package manager.
[12:32] <bubi> can i get it thruu apt-get ??
[12:32] <bubi> or i have to copile it self
[12:32] <membreya> sudo apt-get install kpackage bubi 
[12:32] <bubi> tnx
[12:33] <bubi> a lot
[12:34] <_carsten> does anybody know an app for tracking my sports (running) results? There is SportsTracker, but that needs a up2date Mono which kubuntu doesn't provide
[12:34] <membreya> _carsten: the internet? ..tv?
[12:35] <_carsten> membreya: no, *my* results. CNN doesn't report how fast I was last week ;)
[12:36] <membreya> need to improve yourself then _carsten :P
[12:36] <membreya> get yourself to international level :P
[12:36] <_carsten> that is the grand master plan (tm)
[12:36] <membreya> is couch potato a sport though? :|
[12:37] <Tm_T> hmmmh
[12:37] <Tm_T> let's see what new exciting features cvs amarok have :p
[12:38] <membreya> "non-crashing?" *hopes*
[12:38] <towy71> membreya when I run "sudo apt-get install kpackage"
[12:38] <towy71> I get E: Package kpackage has no installation candidate
[12:38] <_carsten> towy71: I got it from here: http://de.archive.ubuntu.com hoary/universe kpackage 4:3.4.0-0ubuntu1 [659kB] 
[12:38] <membreya> got all your repo's actuve?
[12:39] <towy71> I haven't touched the sources list from the install
[12:39] <membreya> that's the problem :P
[12:39] <towy71> ok hit me I am exceedingly dumb ;-)
[12:40] <_carsten> mmh, anyone using ruby on rails on kubuntu?
[12:46] <Tm_T> oh, I can't quit you, baby ...
[12:46] <Tm_T> Led Zep <3
[12:50] <towy71> ok kpackage now installed but I like synaptic too
[12:50] <verden01> whats ruby on rails?
[12:50] <verden01> synaptic is cool
[12:51] <towy71> same as I prefer joe as an editor I can remember wordstar commands lol
[12:51] <verden01> i like nano
[12:52] <carsten_> verden01: that a a framework to create webpages (in ruby)
[12:52] <carsten_> you can do things like a forum, a wiki and so on with it
[12:53] <voradams> hi all. synaptic has more cr\hrome than kpackage....
[12:53] <verden01> k :)
[12:53] <voradams> with kubuntu , do people use it on low memory machines?
[12:53] <towy71> cr\hrome??
[12:53] <carsten_> verden01: http://off.net/~tberman/diary/archives/003410.html
[12:53] <verden01> anyone tried breezy 
[12:54] <voradams> chrome for those who cant spell
[12:54] <towy71> lol
[12:55] <verden01> looks good carsten_ 
[12:55] <verden01> voradams, how low?
[12:56] <voradams> 192mb on a pIIII laptop
[12:56] <verden01> there must be something on the website that says your system requirements
[12:56] <verden01> hey give it a shot 
[12:57] <voradams> i did ( the beta of 5.2) the default version for ubuntu works fine, but i like kde...
[12:57] <verden01> well kde should be as good 
[12:58] <verden01> i have used both and like kubuntu
[12:58] <voradams> kde seems to be a larger footprint in memory
[12:59] <voradams> i have installed the kde-desktop , as i love kwifi manager
[01:00] <verden01> on ubuntu?
[01:00] <closure> Tm_T, *cheers to another sleepless night*
[01:00] <voradams> yep
[01:00] <verden01> well there's no need to install kubuntu
[01:00] <verden01> does ubuntu with kde-desktop run ok?
[01:00] <Choubaka> sure it does.
[01:01] <Choubaka> it's the same distro :P
[01:01] <verden01> so youdid an sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop?
[01:01] <verden01> i know
[01:01] <Tm_T> closure: haha
[01:01] <voradams> the kubunto install was a prior install. the beta had some issues. the kde-ubunto is good, i have yet to rune kde on it, but the test will come, oh yes
[01:02] <Tm_T> membreya: uuh, this amaroK 1.3 is awesome
[01:02] <verden01> closure, did you ask me about PC-BSD?
[01:03] <Choubaka> I wish QT supported the features I require :/
[01:03] <voradams> like what choubaka
[01:03] <carsten_> qt == qt or quicktime, Choubaka 
[01:03] <Choubaka> QT :P
[01:03] <Choubaka> well. Input modules. 
[01:04] <Choubaka> I know there are patches, but they're patches :/
[01:05] <Choubaka> and as long as they stay as patches outside the stable release, I consider them unsupported... Anyway, there are some QT apps I'll definitely start using after QT 4.0 is out :P
[01:06] <carsten_> what is a "input model"?
[01:06] <voradams> what will happeb with kubutu when qt4 comes out?
[01:06] <Choubaka> carsten_: it allows me to switch between input methods on the fly.
[01:06] <Choubaka> voradams: what would happen?
[01:06] <closure> verden01, yes
[01:07] <closure> verden01, i asked you what speed computers you were running it on and what it ran like
[01:07] <Choubaka> if QT 4.0 comes out before Breezy, QT4 probably will be seen in it .P
[01:07] <carsten_> voradams: kde 4.0 won't be out in 2005. So I guess: not to much.
[01:07] <Choubaka> right.
[01:08] <voradams> so no point release 
[01:08] <Choubaka> So we might see it in Kubuntu 6.x?
[01:08] <voradams> that is 5.2.1 :-)
[01:08] <carsten_> scribus will perhaps use 4.0 in 1.3. I don't think there are very much apps using qt 4.0 is out before kde 4.0 is out
[01:08] <carsten_> very many evn
[01:08] <carsten_> even even
[01:13] <voradams> with the propper kubunto, do the normal gnome apps get installed as well?
[01:14] <carsten_> nope. 
[01:15] <carsten_> but of course you can do a "sudo apt-get install FOO"
[01:15] <membreya> whats a good network monitoring tool for KDE, ie one that alerts you when you're being scanned etc?
[01:15] <voradams> so foo will install it? cool!
[01:16] <carsten_> "sudo apt-get install nautilus" for example, yes
[01:17] <voradams> oh, i thout foo was a meta package :-s
[01:18] <Choubaka> you can also install ubuntu-desktop :P
[01:19] <Choubaka> which'll bloat it a bit, but HD space is almost free nowadays
[01:19] <carsten_> not in notebooks
[01:21] <verden01> Choubaka, whats ubuntu-desktop like with kubuntu?
[01:21] <Choubaka> same as in ubuntu?
[01:21] <carsten_> verden01: that is "all regular gnome-apps"
[01:21] <voradams> yeah, but kde + grome + os is still about 2gb
[01:22] <Choubaka> just as kubuntu-desktop in ubuntu is the same as in kubuntu :P
[01:22] <verden01> how big is the download
[01:24] <verden01> only an extra 88mb for me
[01:24] <Choubaka> Need to get 96.7MB/113MB of archives for kubuntu
[01:25] <Choubaka> though I already have some KDE libs installed.
[01:25] <voradams> is there a kde theme package?
[01:25] <Choubaka> you can install kubuntu using ubuntu's install media and vice versa :)
[01:25] <carsten_> voradams: you can theme a lot things, splashscreen and such
[01:25] <verden01> and when its installed it will use an extra 422mb of additional space
[01:25] <Choubaka> in fact, I installed ubuntu using Debian's install media :D
[01:26] <KaiL> Choubaka: doesn't help, there are only very few packages used from that
[01:26] <KaiL> and those are small ones
[01:27] <Choubaka> KaiL: Anyway, they are the same :)
[01:27] <Choubaka> Why would they be different?
[01:27] <Tm_T> hmm
[01:29] <verden01> when you install the ubuntu-desktop does grub get modified as well so youhave a choice to boot kde or gnome?
[01:29] <KaiL> Choubaka: several changes, mostly better preconfiguration
[01:29] <KaiL> verden01: you select that in gdm/kdm
[01:29] <verden01> cool
[01:29] <Tm_T> verden01: grub only controls what kernel you boot afaik
[01:29] <Choubaka> Yeah :)
[01:30] <Tm_T> :p
[01:31] <Choubaka> I do :((
[01:31] <verden01> hmmm your right of course  :)
[01:31] <Choubaka> My computer is amazingly unstable.
[01:31] <verden01> why
[01:31] <Choubaka> I have failing hardware.
[01:31] <verden01> running breezy?
[01:31] <Choubaka> not.
[01:31] <Choubaka> I think my nvidia is borked.
[01:31] <verden01> ripperx?
[01:31] <Tm_T> carsten_: amaroK & drag&drop
[01:32] <carsten_> Tm_T: dropping what?
[01:32] <Tm_T> carsten_: just look from amarok faq
[01:32] <Choubaka> you can drag&drop-rip from konqi too afaik.
[01:32] <Choubaka> carsten_: why use mp3?
[01:33] <Choubaka> is it for a portable player?
[01:33] <carsten_> Choubaka: because of my mobile player
[01:33] <Choubaka> ok
[01:33] <carsten_> I know that sucks :/
[01:33] <Tm_T> Choubaka: you can't stream ogg from amaroK yet :/ (at least easily)
[01:33] <Choubaka> Tm_T hmm :/
[01:33] <Choubaka> I don't know amarok.
[01:34] <Tm_T> because shouter script only support mp3 atm
[01:34] <Tm_T> but amaroK roKs
[01:34] <Choubaka> I use gtk2 apps ;P
[01:34] <Tm_T> haha
[01:34] <voradams> sorry just loaded kde. it seems ok on the low memory, and looks better than gnome :-)
[01:34] <Tm_T> voradams: oh yes it does! :)
[01:35] <Choubaka> Do not be fooled. You can make Gnome look cute too. :)
[01:35] <Choubaka> I personally use XFCE and believe it beats the crap out of either :D
[01:35] <victor> any way to update kdelibs with out loose the k configuration?
[01:35] <voradams> nah. in the geek wars i know what side i am on, vi and kde!
[01:35] <Choubaka> vi :<
[01:36] <Choubaka> vim rather
[01:36] <voradams> i saw a reviw for xfce, and i might use it on the laptop. Linux Format thought highly of it
[01:37] <Choubaka> It rocks.
[01:37] <warriorfr> does someone has sound with firefox streaming ?
[01:37] <Choubaka> hmm?
[01:37] <Choubaka> and I changed the annoying rat menu image to the ubuntu logo :D
[01:39] <carsten_> Tm_T: I don't find lame in the repo...
[01:39] <Choubaka> it's in universe I guess
[01:39] <Choubaka> or multiverse
[01:40] <voradams> its non free due to the licence
[01:40] <voradams> thompson has a patent i believe
[01:40] <carsten_> "First, install the gstreamer0.8-lame package (available in the MARILLAT repository for Hoary)."
[01:40] <carsten_> but that is not the same as lame itself
[01:41] <thoreauputic> lame should be in multiverse
[01:42] <carsten_> yes, it is. Just found it
[01:42] <thoreauputic> OK
[01:43] <membreya> thoreauputic: I cast thee out
[01:44] <thoreauputic> membreya: a prophet is not without honour, except in his own country ....
[01:44] <thoreauputic> ;p
[01:45] <Tm_T> hmm, maybe I should sleep for awhile
[01:45] <voradams> nah, sleep cuts into my anime timr :-d
[01:46] <victor> What about the kaffeine 100% cpu bug, how to fix it 
[01:46] <victor> (without getting breezy)
[01:47] <sikor_sxe> how can i change screen resolution (in my x.org config file there are yet 3 resolutions). i cannot use the randr extension aka the kde or gnome applet however (messes up the xv display), i rather need the good old ctrl-alt-+/- method to work 
[01:47] <sikor_sxe> pressing ctrl-alt-+/- accomplishes nothing however
[01:47] <sikor_sxe> so how do i change x resolution natively?
[01:48] <thoreauputic> membreya: you'll be glad to hear I am now sartorially splendid in my Ubuntu T-shirt from UDU ;-)
[01:48] <membreya> omg :P uber-geek
[01:48] <membreya> :P
[01:48] <thoreauputic> heheh
[01:48] <thoreauputic> membreya: I had to twist Canonical's arm to get it ;)
[01:49] <membreya> get one for me too ? :)
[01:49] <thoreauputic> membreya: I was told only a select few receive that honour ;-)
[01:50] <thoreauputic> *g*
[01:50] <voradams> Akregator rocks! this is why i love kde!
[01:52] <Choubaka> What's akregator?
[01:52] <voradams> rss client
[01:52] <Choubaka> ah.
[01:52] <Choubaka> I use firefox's builtin one :D
[01:52] <voradams> just opened it up. it works well.
[01:57] <membreya> FF blows chunks
[01:57] <membreya> give it up
[02:00] <Aircobra> _victor http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=27670
[02:00] <Tm_T> FF <3
[02:05] <KaiL> Aircobra: interesting
[02:06] <_victor> Aircobra:  thx
[02:06] <KaiL> Riddell: ping?
[02:07] <KaiL> maybe he can use the information for an update package..
[02:14] <Far|Side> what program could I use to make a screenshot of a console view?
[02:15] <Far|Side> (e.g. no X console, but normal tty console)
[02:16] <whiskers>  Choubaka what is so special about quicktime
[02:17] <whiskers> Choubaka, if it is such a big deal to you ...why don't you try this as a browser plugin or try it on wine.
[02:17] <whiskers> http://www.free-codecs.com/download/QuickTime_Alternative.htm
[02:17] <Fergy> how do you set things like dhcp,ip,gateway in kde? I can't find it in the control panel or help
[02:17] <Choubaka> :p
[02:17] <Choubaka> Quicktime works fine for me.
[02:17] <whiskers> Choubaka, personally i don't give a shit about quicktime
[02:18] <whiskers> Choubaka, it is just more of that commercial quality stuff
[02:18] <Choubaka> I don't care much of it either.
[02:18] <Choubaka> But it's common.
[02:19] <Fergy> can someone point me in the right direction...?
[02:19] <whiskers> Choubaka, well ...of course because not many people like GNU
[02:19] <whiskers> Choubaka, they don't want to be fucked out of all their internal documents records data, code, programs and everything else
[02:20] <whiskers> Choubaka, so some people prefer the MS alternative to just be fucked out of all their money instead
[02:20] <Choubaka> maybe Quicktime just has a better PR :P
[02:21] <Choubaka> The MS alternative sucks too, but you know, the majority of desktops will be able to play it.
[02:22] <whiskers> Choubaka, well you know i gave you the url for quicktime...if its such a big deal try the browser plugin or try wine
[02:22] <Choubaka> :P
[02:23] <Choubaka> I told you it works fine as is
[02:26] <Aircobra> Fergy, try this one, it is not done KDE, but in console instead: http://www.enterprisenetworkingplanet.com/netos/article.php/3377351
[02:27] <Aircobra> but actualy, it is more for setting up gateway and internet connection sharing
[02:27] <Aircobra> if you need to configure your own computer for using dhcp service and all that, go to KControl
[02:28] <Far|Side> On *BSD I could use vidcontrol and scr2png to make a console screenshot, but what sould I use in linux?
[02:28] <Aircobra> then internet & nework, then Network settings
[02:28] <Cowlike> ksnapshot on KDE?
[02:29] <alex> hello people!
[02:29] <alex> i need your help
[02:29] <Far|Side> Cowlike, no, in a console, not in X
[02:30] <alex> how can i unmount my exteended partition, so that i cam resize it?
[02:30] <alex> *can
[02:30] <Fergy> Aircobra Kcontrol?
[02:31] <Fergy> you just mean the control panel?
[02:31] <Aircobra> umm yes :)
[02:31] <Fergy> I've been there in internet & network
[02:31] <Aircobra> and?
[02:31] <Fergy> can't find anything like dhcp and stuff
[02:31] <Aircobra> Did you see "network settings" ?
[02:32] <Aircobra> oh
[02:32] <Fergy> only  connection preferences
[02:32] <Aircobra> you have to start control center in administrator
[02:32] <Fergy> ...
[02:32] <Aircobra> open console
[02:32] <Fergy> I am root right now, but I guess that isn't enough?
[02:33] <Aircobra> it should be
[02:33] <Aircobra> but when you open Internet & Network
[02:33] <Fergy> no internet connection or things like that
[02:33] <Aircobra> don't you see anything else but connection preferences?
[02:34] <Aircobra> you are using Kubuntu?
[02:34] <Aircobra> or Ubuntu + kde desktop?
[02:34] <Fergy> well yeah but its al about wireless network and file sharing on the network
[02:34] <Fergy> right now its slax with kde 3.4 in qemu :)
[02:34] <Fergy> But I've never found the connection stuff in KDE
[02:35] <Fergy> not in kubuntu not in any kde distro
[02:35] <Fergy> just checked
[02:35] <Fergy> i am root
[02:35] <Aircobra> I have an obvious entry "Network Settings" under Internet & Network in Control Center
[02:36] <psn> Fergy: you need to install knetworkconfig afaik
[02:36] <Fergy> it isn't in there by default?
[02:36] <psn> Fergy: not in hoary at least
[02:36] <Fergy> maybe they did it to conserve space?
[02:36] <Fergy> slax is 200MB
[02:37] <Fergy> and knetworkconfig is the Network Settings thing in Internet & network
[02:37] <Fergy> ?
[02:37] <psn> Fergy: yup
[02:37] <Fergy> hm thanks
[02:38] <KaiL> knetworkconf is debian specific, that's why only debian based distributions have it :)
[02:38] <Fergy> wha?
[02:38] <Fergy> so slax wouldn't have it
[02:39] <psn> KaiL: no it isn't debian specific
[02:39] <psn> Fergy: not sure it has slax support at the moment
[02:40] <KaiL> psn: different backends?
[02:40] <psn> KaiL: yup
[02:40] <KaiL> ah
[02:40] <Fergy> so just use ifconfig?
[02:40] <psn> Fergy: well I don't know what's available on slax... sort of the wrong channel for that
[02:40] <Aircobra> manualy you can set it in /etc/network/interfaces in Kubuntu at least
[02:41] <whiskers> Far|Side, that is strange....linux used to have ctrl-printscreen to take a screenshot...but it doesn't work anymore
[02:42] <Fergy> Aircobra slax doesn't have that... :(
[02:42] <Far|Side> whiskers, hmm... ok
[02:42] <Fergy> kde is weird
[02:42] <Fergy> :)
[02:42] <psn> Fergy: well that has nothing to do with kde
[02:43] <whiskers> Far|Side, if you press alt-printscreen it says gnome-screenshot is broken
[02:43] <whiskers> Far|Side, i guess more broken stuff...but you can always use a camera
[02:44] <Cowlike> Far|Side have you tried xwd?
[02:44] <psn> whiskers: ctrl-printscreen works here... but I don't use ubuntu's kde
[02:44] <whiskers> psn, yes...i don't know how they managed to break that
[02:47] <Far|Side> whiskers, well, I'm not out to take a screenshot in X11, it's in a console
[02:48] <Cowlike> when you say "in a console" you mean X is not running at all, right?
[02:49] <gdh> Far|Side: No digicam?
[02:49] <Far|Side> gdh, well, a digital camera won't be good enough :P
[02:49] <gdh> bah, perfectionists :)
[02:49] <Far|Side> Cowlike, yes, X is not running
[02:49] <Choubaka> if he had gpm, he could just copy and paste the text  :P
[02:50] <Far|Side> I have gpm, but I need a screenshot
[02:50] <Far|Side> it's a ansi art I wish to convert to png
[02:50] <gdh> Far|Side: and it's not possible to just select the whole screen and paste into a text file/
[02:50] <Choubaka> right
[02:50] <Far|Side> with colors and stuff
[02:50] <gdh> Ah.
[02:51] <whiskers> Far|Side, well i have no idea since ubuntu managed to break printscreen
[02:51] <Choubaka> you should've used and ansi art "drawing" tool
[02:51] <Cowlike> can't you just fire up X, run the ansi art program in a terminal adn shoot tthat?
[02:51] <Choubaka> whiskers: ubuntu has not broken anything.
[02:51] <gdh> Far|Side: and you can't run the 'picture' in a Konsole window?
[02:51] <Far|Side> Choubaka, I did, but it doesn't support saving to png
[02:51] <whiskers> Choubaka, well they sure as shit have
[02:51] <whiskers> Choubaka, hey nobody said this stuff was perfect
[02:51] <whiskers> Choubaka, but you did not pay one dime for it anyway
[02:52] <whiskers> Choubaka, so don't bitch about it
[02:52] <Choubaka> Haha.
[02:52] <gdh> hm, pot. kettle. black..
[02:52] <Choubaka> Something like that.
[02:52] <Far|Side> well, if I'm going to use a konsole window I would need to find the right font and stuff
[02:52] <Choubaka> hmm...
[02:53] <gdh> Far|Side: Surely wouldn't that be an entertaining learning experience in itself? ;)
[02:53] <Choubaka> Far|Side: does it support exporting to images at all? :p
[02:53] <Cowlike> time to learn about fonts and/or image conversion, it sounds like!
[02:54] <Choubaka> whiskers: Besides, I wouldn't pay a dime for anything.
[02:54] <Choubaka> I live in Europe, and we don't have that money.
[02:54] <gdh> :)
[02:54] <gdh> We're all still using the barter system
[02:55] <whiskers> Choubaka, neither do the monks on the Holy Mountain
[02:55] <gdh> I keep a flock of geese handy in case I ever need some bread or water.
[02:55] <Far|Side> Choubaka, it supports saving to ANSI art text files :)
[02:55] <whiskers> Choubaka, but they sure did make a nice GNU website
[02:55] <Choubaka> Far|Side: hmm :p
[02:55] <whiskers> Choubaka, for everyone to enjoy
[02:55] <Choubaka> right.
[02:56] <Cowlike> Far|Side, in the time it took to discuss it here, you could already have displayed it in an X Windows, snapped it and had a png file
[02:57] <Choubaka> Far|Side: what ascii art utility are you using?
[02:57] <gdh> Besides didn't ANSI art go out of fashion with werewolf whistles and flared trousers?
[02:57] <Choubaka> you might try another one and see if that supports exporting.
[02:58] <Choubaka> apt finds cadubi and aewan at least
[02:58] <Far|Side> gdh, d'oh :P
[02:59] <Far|Side> Choubaka, I used Tetradrww
[02:59] <Choubaka> hmm :|
[02:59] <Far|Side> s/Tetradrww/Tetradraw
[02:59] <Choubaka> try those two
[03:00] <Choubaka> they're only an apt-get install away anyway
[03:01] <bubi> does azureus works fine on kubuntu ??
[03:01] <Choubaka> hmm
[03:01] <Cowlike> azureus java client works fine anywhere
[03:01] <gdh> the problem is not azureus but Java :)
[03:02] <bubi> what about java
[03:02] <Cowlike> Sun's java works greate too!
[03:02] <gdh> Has someone packaged Sun's JRE?
[03:02] <Cowlike> yes, Java works great
[03:02] <da_bon_bon> ?? java
[03:02] <da_bon_bon> bubi: ^^^
[03:02] <Cowlike> yes, Sun has packaged it!  :O
[03:02] <bubi> coz ive had problems with sudden reboots
[03:02] <Cowlike> as a self-extracting "bin" file :)
[03:02] <Choubaka> there's this utility called java-package
[03:02] <da_bon_bon> wtf ? uhelper aint here!
[03:02] <gdh> Cowlike: Feh. I mean as a .deb for Ubuntu not as a litter of /usr/local cruft
[03:02] <da_bon_bon> sHIT
[03:03] <Far|Side> well, aewan is a ascii art editor, not ansiart
[03:03] <Choubaka> it'll magically transform the sun .bin into .debs
[03:03] <da_bon_bon> bubi: join #ubuntu for a moment
[03:03] <bubi> ok
[03:03] <Cowlike> gdh, i'm joking.  anyway it works great and has all the standard utils for development
[03:03] <gdh> =)
[03:04] <Cowlike> gdh, besides, it doesn't litter your disk with cruft, actually installs to a single directory... very easy to put wherever you like
[03:04] <gdh> k
[03:04] <Choubaka> but java-package is still better :P
[03:04] <Cowlike> :)
[03:05] <gdh> I think I did that java-package stuff with sarge, I suppose there's no reason it wouldn't work here too
[03:05] <gdh> brain still installed backwards today
[03:13] <matthias> hi
[03:16] <whiskers> man i am still tired after sleeping and i still don't feel like hassling with the compilation of glibc and all those addons
[03:18] <whiskers> maybe tomorrow i will work on it somemore....i get a little futher with each header i move around
[03:18] <whiskers> but there are just so damn many
[03:19] <whiskers> at least gnu binutils sure was easy
[03:22] <_ubuntu> hello
[03:24] <whiskers> and lives was fairly easy to compile for all those video nuts who dont' want to pay one dime to produce outstanding movies
[03:25] <KaiL> Riddell: the koffice beta doesn't apply that clean, do you have --force-overwrite as default on your system? :)
[03:25] <whiskers> KaiL, the Koffice beta...compiles just fine here...but kexi still crashes because i guess of the glibc problem
[03:25] <KaiL> whiskers: I never compile :)
[03:26] <whiskers> KaiL, well how are you going to examine the lives program
[03:26] <whiskers> KaiL, i don't think it is in synaptic
[03:27] <KaiL> deb ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/unstable/koffice-1.4-beta1/kubuntu ./
[03:27] <KaiL> made by Riddell 
[03:27] <whiskers> KaiL, oh..he already packaged it
[03:27] <Chameleon22> does kubuntu keep a log of all packages downloaded with apt-get after initial install?
[03:28] <KaiL> whiskers: eh, kexi crasht bei dir beim start?
[03:28] <KaiL> interessant
[03:28] <KaiL> Chameleon22: nop :(
[03:28] <Chameleon22> KaiL: bummer
[03:28] <KaiL> would be great to copy installations...
[03:29] <Chameleon22> KaiL: i think I might write a wrapper for apt-get then to do exactly that 
[03:29] <KaiL> kexi: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libkeximain.so.0: undefined symbol: _ZN13KDockSplitter24setSeparatorPosInPercentEi
[03:29] <Chameleon22> KaiL: although to late for my original purpose :'(
[03:29] <KaiL> hmm
[03:29] <KaiL> Chameleon22: copy installations?
[03:30] <whiskers> KaiL, yes...kword seems to work nice...but kexi is still crashing everywhere....with that glibc error..
[03:31] <whiskers> KaiL, i just don't feel like messing with glibc today....maybe tomorrow i will work on it somemore
[03:31] <Chameleon22> KaiL: not so much but to know what i have done to revert in case of system crash
[03:31] <KaiL> Chameleon22: afaik such a thing is planned or even in the work for ubuntu
[03:32] <Chameleon22> KaiL: uh nice
[03:32] <KaiL> the kexi package is also not perfect...
[03:32] <whiskers> KaiL, well it is probably glibc.
[03:32] <whiskers> KaiL, not kexi
[03:33] <KaiL> I mean the meta infos
[03:33] <whiskers> KaiL, but knoda works and rekall works
[03:33] <whiskers> KaiL, but they are not well developed at this time
[03:34] <MacUser> which is better, ubuntu or kubuntu?
[03:34] <Tm_T> Kubuntu!
[03:35] <MacUser> why?
[03:35] <Tm_T> because of KDE
[03:35] <Tm_T> well, that's the only difference really
[03:35] <MacUser9999> oh ok
[03:36] <MacUser9999> which is better, kubuntu or mac os x
[03:36] <dross> oh much better :P
[03:36] <_carsten> MacUser9999: you can't really compare those
[03:36] <Tm_T> hmm, dunno, never had Mac OS X
[03:36] <dross> KDE and GNOME apps are great after starting gnome-settings-daemon
[03:36] <whiskers> MacUser9999, well which is better....$1000 out of your pocket or your willingness to contribute your brains
[03:36] <_carsten> MacUser9999: I like macosx but am using linux+kde
[03:36] <dross> GTK apps looks so ugly without the daemon
[03:37] <KaiL> dross: gtk2-engines-gtk-qt hepls too :)
[03:37] <whiskers> MacUser9999, and i don't know $1000 is even enough to buy a Mac
[03:37] <gunny> MacUser9999, I have a PC and a lombard Powerbook, BOTH run Ubuntu if thatell you anything ;) 
[03:38] <MacUser9999> ok...
[03:38] <dross> KaiL: maybe, 
[03:39] <KaiL> the second new koffice app (krita) looks very good
[03:39] <KaiL> but should be placed in "Graphics", not in "Office" :)
[03:39] <whiskers> KaiL, i did not get krita in that compilation...is there a later version
[03:40] <KaiL> ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/unstable/koffice-1.4-beta1/kubuntu/koffice_1.3.91-0ubuntu0.2.diff.gz  << I guess, the solution is in that file :))
[03:41] <whiskers> KaiL,  i got 1.3.91...is there a later version with krita
[03:42] <whiskers> KaiL, yes that is the one i got..but just not the deb...i got the tarball
[03:43] <whiskers> KaiL, but i did not get krita i don't think...because if i type krita nothing comes up
[03:43] <KaiL> that's the diff, not the tar :)
[03:43] <whiskers> KaiL, no...i got the tar
[03:43] <whiskers> KaiL, but it does not seem to have krita
[03:43] <dross> KaiL: how do you activate it?
[03:44] <KaiL> dross: was?
[03:44] <KaiL> eh
[03:44] <KaiL> dross: what?
[03:45] <KaiL> gtk2-engines..bla?
[03:45] <dross> oop. nevermind. I wasn't expecting it to be in kcontrol
[03:45] <KaiL> :)
[03:45] <kkathman> Howdy KaiL  :)
[03:46] <KaiL> hi kkathman 
[03:46] <KaiL> hi NTolerance 
[03:47] <KaiL> early morning somewhere in the world?
[03:48] <MacUser9999> america?
[03:49] <kkathman> depends on what you call early morning ..its 8:49am here
[03:49] <dross> :(
[03:49] <dross> and it seems to not be activating
[03:50] <whiskers> KaiL, well i don't know ...i think i got the tar...it was 185megs...is that about right
[03:50] <whiskers> KaiL, but if i look inside the tar...it doesn't seem to be much
[03:51] <NTolerance> hey
[03:51] <NTolerance> yeah, early in the US
[03:51] <KaiL> dross: change all values once, press apply and change them back :)
[03:51] <NTolerance> too damn early
[03:52] <dross> KaiL: don't know whats happening, I tried logging out and back in
[03:55] <dross> oh, there. Had to restart KDM :) oops
[03:55] <whiskers> KaiL, you know...maybe i just got the tar for the docs...maybe that is why kexi doesn't work
[03:55] <dross> I forgot KDM only drops privs to the user logging in.
[03:56] <whiskers> KaiL, the tar is about 185 megs...but seems to just be a lot of docs in a lot of languages
[03:57] <NTolerance> anyone know a good place to get dock icons for Linux apps?
[03:57] <KaiL> uhm, don't think so, as there's no .deb with doc or i18n
[03:57] <KaiL> only koffice-doc-html (400kb)
[03:58] <dross> later
[03:58] <muempf> hello
[03:58] <muempf> is it possible to install "dvdrip" from "ftp.nerim.net"
[03:58] <KaiL> yes
[03:59] <KaiL> or better: should be
[03:59] <whiskers> KaiL, well the tarball said i18n whatever that means but seems to just be alot of docs
[03:59] <kkathman> you'll need to set that source in your /etc/apt/sources.list file and get a public key for nerim
[03:59] <KaiL> muempf: but you can also use ubuntus "multiverse"
[03:59] <KaiL> whiskers: hmm, then Riddell  only didn't build them
[04:00] <muempf> how can i get the public key
[04:00] <muempf> the lines at /etc/apt/sources.list are added
[04:02] <muempf> hm
[04:03] <kkathman> muempf: look here at this thread:  http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=26174&highlight=nerim+key
[04:03] <muempf> thx
[04:03] <kkathman> muempf: but read it all :)
[04:09] <whiskers> KaiL, i would not mention libwv2 to anyone in the US
[04:09] <whiskers> KaiL, they will get very pissed
[04:09] <KaiL> what's libwv2?
[04:09] <gdh> .doc decoder?
[04:10] <whiskers> KaiL,  but for libwpd...i don't guess anybody cares
[04:10] <whiskers> anymore
[04:10] <whiskers> KaiL, for the koffice compilation
[04:10] <muempf> hm, now i can import "ftp.nerim.net"
[04:10] <muempf> but i cant install from this source
[04:11] <muempf> apt-get install dvdrip breaks
[04:11] <whiskers> KaiL, i am going to try to compile without libwv2
[04:11] <KaiL> why that?
[04:13] <whiskers> KaiL, libwv2 lets koffice read/write MS documents
[04:13] <KaiL> yes
[04:13] <KaiL> quite usefull, if you aren't totally ignorant
[04:14] <whiskers> KaiL, well i don't want to step on anyone's toes in the US so i will try to compile without it
[04:14] <thoreauputic> KaiL: I think whiskers is avoiding all proprietary formats - so not ignorant, just idealistic :)
[04:15] <KaiL> I don't think, it's in any way problematic there, as it's way older that DCMA is
[04:15] <whiskers> KaiL, well i just don't know...these laws here are just outrageous
[04:15] <whiskers> KaiL, so i am avoiding the issue
[04:18] <whiskers> KaiL, anyway i dont need .doc file ability....i have no further communication with MS since they ripped me off $100 to fix a broken win98
[04:19] <whiskers> and it was their fault
[04:20] <whiskers> KaiL, and if MS did send a doc file...i could just dig for the ASCII text in a hex editor and cut and  paste to a text editor
[04:25] <Aladdin-> hi guys
[04:26] <pussfeller> you are trying to take doc capabilites out of koffice? thats hardcore
[04:26] <gdh> Aladdin-: Welcome to the IRC genie.. you have 3 questions... ask wisely :)
[04:26] <whiskers> pussfeller, yes...just to keep linux legal in the US so everyone here can enjoy it without breaking the laws
[04:27] <pussfeller> i dont think its illegal to use docs in koffice
[04:27] <Aladdin-> I just switched to KDE using Synaptic.  I have a problem.  When I use a scroll bar (or even sometimes just happens in konsole) part of my screen goes white and I have to refresh the desktop.  Got a clue?
[04:27] <Aladdin-> gdh,  hi :o)  lol
[04:28] <whiskers> pussfeller, well i just don't know...that DMCA and Patriot Act is rough stuff.
[04:28] <pussfeller> yes it is evil stuff
[04:28] <pussfeller> but reverse engineering is specifiaclly legal
[04:28] <pussfeller> its only breaking encryption, as i understand it, that is illegal
[04:29] <pussfeller> and i think they have to prove the encryption was necessary
[04:29] <kkathman> pussfeller I have just today consulted an attorney regarding these codecs and "patented" technologies, and got some interesting feedback from him
[04:29] <whiskers> pussfeller, well i am not going to reverse engineer...i am just going to read what i can with a hex editor and leave it at that.... i don't need to reverse engineer all the formatting
[04:30] <pussfeller> the legal battle is the last gasp of MS, and its already started, so i can't blame you guys for thinking about stuff
[04:30] <pussfeller> like this
[04:31] <kkathman> pussfeller: he is also doing some looking for me to get an official reading on use, but his initial comments were that that whole area was extremely up in the air legally, and that because of the widespread use of, say, MPEG within MPEG III, that its seriously close to public domain under the generic definitions of the law
[04:31] <whiskers> pussfeller, well we have no choice...the US laws are outrageous
[04:31] <kkathman> pussfeller: I will get back to you possibly today on that, and let you know...there is alot of "misinformation" being spread I think on these issues.
[04:32] <whiskers> kkathman, you better ask him about MPEG4...not 3....that is what most people are using
[04:32] <whiskers> kkathman, or else they are using WMV
[04:32] <whiskers> 9
[04:33] <pussfeller> kkathman, so you are saying that if franhauffer tried to sue gentoo for using lame it in its official repostories, then they could credible argue its so widespread its defacto public domain
[04:33] <kkathman> I am asking him about all the codecs
[04:33] <Zurgy> Hi, is this an appropriate forum to ask for help?
[04:33] <sdogi> just a thing i noticed
[04:33] <pussfeller> i can't think ofa more appopriate one
[04:33] <sdogi> does kde have some updates notifier for taskbar too like gnome has?
[04:33] <Zurgy> anyone know where I can find X-headers packaged for kubuntu?
[04:34] <Zurgy> also the website suggests all of kde-3.4 i.e. kde-edu, kdevelop is included in hoary
[04:34] <schasi> Hi there
[04:34] <whiskers> pussfeller, you mean gentoo is shipping lame
[04:34] <whiskers> pussfeller, are they also shipping twolame
[04:34] <sdogi> i found out that gnome has such notifier by default, it would be really handy to have such things in kubuntu too
[04:34] <whiskers> pussfeller, you mean on their install cd
[04:34] <Aladdin-> gdh, got a minute? 
[04:34] <pussfeller> whiskers, yes, you can emerge lame, mplayer, all the codecs, etx
[04:34] <kkathman> pussfeller many "patented" technologies lose their rights because of their inconsistent licensing practice as well as "common use" so, yes its very possible... A cursory search of the legal cases in LEXUS-NEXXUS shows that rulings have been inconsistent and very point-oriented
[04:34] <Zurgy> I downloaded the hoary 5.04 install CD and seem to have a cut-down KDE install.
[04:35] <schasi> Should onw really use that kdelibs-debug.sh script to fix the bug?
[04:35] <pussfeller> you can even emerge enemy territory, but thats a different tangent
[04:35] <whiskers> kkathman, hey forget MPEG3...ask him about MPEG4 and WMV
[04:35] <whiskers> 9
[04:35] <whiskers> kkathman, see if the lawyer says these are public domain
[04:35] <pussfeller> i really hope ubuntu gets over this split repos thing
[04:36] <schasi> I really hope ubuntu gets a fixed kdelibs package
[04:36] <pussfeller> if its legal, ok, if its ideological, its not ok
[04:36] <kkathman> now you mention MPEG4, an extremely popular open source mimic of this is XviD
[04:36] <kkathman> its widely used in many industries including education
[04:37] <whiskers> kkathman, yes but is xvid legal or does it trample on divx
[04:37] <kkathman> yes xvid is open source
[04:37] <whiskers> kkathman, ask the lawyer and see what he thinks...but he probably doesn't speak for eveyone
[04:37] <kkathman> dare I say...lol...its being widely used in the porn industry :)
[04:37] <pussfeller> heh
[04:38] <kkathman> and believe it or not, the porn industry drove DVD acceptance :)
[04:38] <pussfeller> its great to have freinds in moist, sticky places
[04:39] <whiskers> kkathman, i find that hard to believe...i think Hollywood said...well we suckered them out of all their money with VCR tapes...now how can we do it again with DVDs
[04:39] <kkathman> MPEG4 and ASF both remain patented technologies, and thus the owner of record does retain rights to that, since they spent their own time and resources paying people to develop it, its only fair under the law to protect their investment.
[04:39] <pussfeller> hollywood didn't say that till the vcr was taken to the supreme court
[04:40] <kkathman> pussfeller: its not Hollywood per se, its just basic copyright and patent law, which on the whole, in my opinion, is a good thing, but I do know that others disagree on this.
[04:41] <whiskers> kkathman, so the lawyers MPEG4 and ASF are off-limits...what about WMV9
[04:41] <kkathman> But I believe in a free market, and the fact that competition drives innovation...at least in the current environment.
[04:42] <whiskers> kkathman, if MPEG4 and ASF are off-limits what does the lawyer say about WMV9
[04:42] <pussfeller> i would probably argue that theres no room in a free market for govt protection of ideas....
[04:42] <kkathman> I have asked him to check on all these codecs and their status
[04:43] <whiskers> kkathman, yes because it is a bunch of shit....Hollywood keeps changing the codecs and making people pay over and over and over again for the same movies
[04:43] <kkathman> pussfeller: I disagree, I believe that the government should protect MY right to do with my innovation as I see fit..If I choose to release my patent or copyrighted material (not ideas) into the public domain...thats my choice...I WANT that choice. The government cannot control "ideas" they cannot be patented
[04:44] <whiskers> kkathman, wrong...if you use GNU you are bound to release for free
[04:44] <whiskers> kkathman, otherwise go pay MS through the nose.
[04:44] <kkathman> there is a clear difference in the law between patents and copyrights, but they are similar in that the item must be tangible and able to be documented and demonstrated, in essence.
[04:45] <pussfeller> if you want to control innovations, you should not ever tell someone or share them
[04:45] <pussfeller> they are ideas, in the sense they have no physical form
[04:45] <kkathman> whiskers: Absolutely...if you want to subscribe to that philosophy, I am 100% for it. But, at the same time, the person that wants to financially gain from his or her innovation, should be allowed to do so whether you feel it morally upstanding or not.
[04:46] <kkathman> I am FOR that right going to the individual.
[04:46] <pussfeller> and i think if you look at the history of these things, very few innovators actually end up profiting from their innovations
[04:46] <pussfeller> but thats utilitarian arguement
[04:46] <whiskers> kkathman, well they can....some GNU people will release them from their GNU obligation if they fork over money instead...and MS will release them if they also fork over money
[04:46] <kkathman> you dont HAVE to patent or copyright your item or work
[04:47] <whiskers> kkathman, if for example you don't want to release your qt stuff for free...you can fork over lots and lots of money for qt commercial license instead of GNU obligation
[04:47] <kkathman> there has been a very large body of material done under free and open sourcing, i.e. the GNU Public License. This is very good and spurs on a community development that is responsive to the general need.
[04:48] <pussfeller> i think that owning an idea is just plain evil and has caused no end of trouble, and will probably be the death of linux and life as we now know it
[04:48] <kkathman> However, one cannot argue, that corporate development of software and innovations, even governmental sponsorship of same, isnt a good thing either. Just the strides made in health and medicine alone would support this argument.
[04:49] <whiskers> kkathman, and the same with MySQL...if you don't want to give up all your records and code enhancements for free...then you can pay MySQL lots and lots of money and they will release you from your GNU obligation
[04:49] <kkathman> pussfeller: again, be careful...you cannot patent or copyright an "idea"...only a tangible item or work.
[04:49] <pussfeller> kkathman, a song is an idea
[04:49] <pussfeller> it has no physical form
[04:50] <kkathman> pussfeller: oh yes it does...do you read notated music?
[04:50] <kkathman> you cannot copyright a musical composition without the music...written form..trust me I have several.
[04:51] <pussfeller> yes, but is an mp3 of my song the same as the wav? no physically, yet the law says they are
[04:51] <kkathman> you are correct that a song or an innovation begins with an idea...but thats NOT the registered agent.
[04:51] <pussfeller> so its the idea of the song that is protected by the govt, not they physical implementation
[04:52] <kkathman> pussfeller: no, you are wrong on that. Once the work is copyrighted, you are restricted to a license, if you own that CD, to yourself only. An MP3 can be made and can be placed on your computer or another CD for your personal use...but you cannot transfer that to another person, because that is prohibited.
[04:52] <pussfeller> yes exactly
[04:53] <kkathman> that infringes on the rights of the person that owns the work.
[04:53] <pussfeller> it infringes upon the law
[04:53] <kkathman> if I write a song and want to give it to you...at no charge, I can do that.
[04:53] <pussfeller> you don't have rights in my opiion to ideas
[04:53] <kkathman> and we both are not breaking the law
[04:53] <pussfeller> or to data
[04:53] <kkathman> and I can tell you "please pass that around"...and Im not breaking any laws
[04:54] <kkathman> but if I write something, and I CHOOSE to sell that to a distributor, they are the rightful owner, and thus that CHOICE now passes to them, not me.
[04:54] <pussfeller> im talking moral issues, the law has little to do with right and wrong, it is written by and for the entrenched interests who can afford to pay for govt proection that suits them
[04:55] <kkathman> so..it really all begins at the artist...if they want their work to be passed around...then they shouldnt sell the rights to others :)
[04:55] <whiskers> pussfeller, that is correct...why should the rich distributor have any say so over what the poor people do
[04:55] <kkathman> pussfeller:  thats a bit of a socialist view of the law I think, but you are entitled to your opinion.
[04:55] <pussfeller> its not socialistic at all
[04:55] <pussfeller> not for a second
[04:56] <kkathman> whiskers: Well, like I said, blame the artist
[04:56] <kkathman> why are they not as responsible?
[04:56] <kkathman> they had a choice to sell to the distributor did they not?
[04:56] <kkathman> they didnt have to...but they wanted the fat money
[04:56] <pussfeller> its a fact that business uses the govt when they can't compete on a free market
[04:56] <kkathman> so its a trade off
[04:57] <kkathman> pussfeller: give an example please.
[04:57] <pussfeller> heh throw a rock man
[04:57] <pussfeller> take almost anything in the us... cars, produce, etc
[04:58] <whiskers> pussfeller, yes..there are many examples of corporate welfare...and the government giving away all the tax dollars to the rich corporations
[04:58] <pussfeller> all are made cheaper overseas, and yet the businesses lobby for tarrifs to keep them from competition
[04:58] <kkathman> in a free market society the owner of original material, whether it be music, software, or innovations SHOULD have the choice on having their stuff protected, so they can make a living.
[04:58] <kkathman> whiskers please give an example.
[04:59] <pussfeller> and, what is commonly considered consumer protection is ussually jsut a way of driving up the costs so only the entrenched players can play
[04:59] <whiskers> kkathman, well...that is easy....look at the corporate welfare boon of Iraq to Halliburton for example.
[04:59] <pussfeller> like, the controversy of VOip and 911
[05:00] <kkathman> I think we are a little off the subject of copyrighted material arent we?
[05:00] <whiskers> kkathman, or look at the government's protection of the anti-competitive monopolies in spite of the antitrust laws
[05:00] <pussfeller> not really, it segues into it
[05:00] <kkathman> monopolies?
[05:01] <pussfeller> nost of those monoplies actually existed thru some form of control of a govt regulated interface
[05:01] <pussfeller> ie standard oils real power base was their control over train transportation
[05:01] <kkathman> hmmm, Im not so sure thats always true, or even partially true
[05:01] <pussfeller> which was all regulated by the govt
[05:01] <kkathman> historically I would say you are correct in the case of Standard Oil
[05:02] <pussfeller> MS monopoly on the other hand was more just being in the right place at the right time with the right product
[05:02] <pussfeller> and now their real power base is the computer manufacturers and their ubiqutousness of the products
[05:03] <kkathman> The problem we begin to run into is the delicate balance of economic stablity in many things when there are too drastic of a change made in the status quo...so I think that some governmental regulation, especially in the area of public health etc, is a good thing.
[05:03] <pussfeller> which will have to be backed up at some point by the govt protecting their IP, or else it will all eventually fall apart when credible alternatives (like linux) hit the market
[05:03] <pussfeller> kkathman, i bet you conseider yourself a conservative
[05:04] <kkathman> However, I believe that too much regulation is very bad...this is easily seen today, by the fact that we are basically unable to build new refineries here in the US, because the cost of environmental compliance is astronomical
[05:04] <pussfeller> you should read the history of the right.... the pre ww2 conservatives were very differnt than the present breed
[05:04] <kkathman> pussfeller: no, not particularly...I tend to be an independent ... I vote issues, not parties etc.
[05:04] <pussfeller> they were anti-war,and and very much anti-govt
[05:05] <kkathman> who isnt anti-war :)
[05:05] <pussfeller> todays conservatives sure aren't
[05:05] <kkathman> but that is a different discussion I suppose :)
[05:05] <pussfeller> as long as its a republican doing the war mongering
[05:06] <pussfeller> heh i need to get to work
[05:06] <kkathman> well on one hand you have war mongering, on another you have excessive spending that raises the deficit, so..blah blah
[05:06] <kkathman> sometimes you have both :)
[05:07] <kkathman> pussfeller: in any case I appreciate your views and your debate... I enjoyed it .. you are a respecful person :)
[05:07] <pussfeller> thanks, you too
[05:07] <kkathman> its very obvious that you are well read...I like that! We both learn :)
[05:08] <kkathman> if you are passionate, raise the level of debate so that others are educated also, and always keep an open mind to new arguments :)
[05:08] <whiskers> kkathman, but don't think for one minute that "corporate welfare" doesn't exist....and that the government doesn't hand taxpayer dollars to the rich corporations instead of the poor
[05:10] <kkathman> hmm...well I would argue some of that especially if you investigate the current Fiscal budget. There is ALOT of money in the public domain...less lately because of both parties attempting to reign in deficits, which I hope gets under control soon
[05:10] <kkathman> that really is the bigger problem in my opinion
[05:11] <whiskers> kkathman, well...you don't need all those fancy words...just look around and see if any government agencies have handed MS or Apple money for a computer...instead of giving the tax dollars to the poor
[05:11] <kkathman> that and education....the educational system in our country is very sad and in need of major overhaul
[05:11] <kkathman> whiskers: you dont want the government to use computers?
[05:12] <whiskers> kkathman, i am sick of "corporate welfare" that should be going to the poor not the rich.
[05:12] <kkathman> I think maybe alot of people would be upset if they didnt :)
[05:12] <kkathman> how do you define corporate welfare?  The government paying for corporations products?
[05:13] <Blissex> whiskers: 5% of voters provide 95% of campaign donations. Guess what happens...
[05:13] <kkathman> and, why do the poor need special treatment
[05:13] <whiskers> kkathman, damn right...handing over taxdollars to the rich instead of the poor
[05:13] <kkathman> well that is a normal by product of contemporary society, and has been for ... well as long as I can remember
[05:14] <kkathman> the alternative is socialism and Im not for that
[05:14] <Blissex> whiskers: the conservative take on that is: if the poor are so stupid not to understand how important it is to buy political favours, they get all they deserve.
[05:14] <kkathman> I dont buy political favors and Im not poor
[05:14] <kkathman> lol
[05:15] <kkathman> so your argument is inflammatory and unsubstantiated
[05:16] <whiskers> kkathman, that is the point...you are NOT POOR.
[05:17] <whiskers> kkathman, so there is no way in hell you are going to care about the poor....and you think just because you have money...they should all have money or else it is their fault
[05:18] <whiskers> kkathman, well you tell which of the poor is going to get enough money to open another Microsoft...or IBM...or ATT...or SWBELL
[05:18] <whiskers> kkathman, and have full ownership
[05:19] <kkathman> I think it unfair that you judge me without knowing me. That is your problem. You see people with money as evil. I dont. I gave a full 25% of my income last year to charity and similar organizations, so I would ask that you not judge me on your generalistic grounds.
[05:19] <whiskers> kkathman, i don't judge you...you said you were not poor....careless mistake
[05:19] <kkathman> By definition I am not below povery level.
[05:20] <kkathman> perhaps I am not using the same definition that you use for "poor"
[05:21] <kkathman> People make decisions in their life everyday that have consequences. People need to be taught to make better decisions and thus better consequences. In ANY society, there will be "poorer" But for instance, the person in the US that is at the poverty level is STILL in the top 25% of the worlds wealthy.
[05:22] <whiskers> kkathman, yea...right...in fact i knew many of them and they are not in the top25%...they are in the GRAVES.
[05:22] <kkathman> Thats something to think about, when we begin to police the cutting of foreign aid on the grounds that "we need to solve our own problems here at home".  Where is the "idealisic" philosophy then?
[05:23] <kkathman> many are very quick to scream at corporations, but their taxes help pay for subsidies to the so-called "poor" that do nothing but sit around and dont even take advantage of free programs offered to them. I see this everyday in schools.
[05:24] <gdh> philosophy, politics, morality and trolling. what more could I ask for on a monday?
[05:24] <whiskers> kkathman, those god damn corporations don't even pay taxes...they pay rich lawyers to dodge taxes
[05:24] <kkathman> haha gdh...good morning and how are you today?
[05:24] <gdh> kkathman: Glowing :) The sun is bright, I'm going to a concert tonight and my paycheque just cleared :)
[05:25] <kkathman> whiskers:  dont be ignorant.  You talk much, but only from your mouth, not factual.
[05:25] <kkathman> gdh you on the US west coast?
[05:25] <pussfeller> actually, taxes pay for very little in the long run... the govt uses the printing press and borrowing to pay for most of its budget
[05:25] <pussfeller> err much
[05:25] <gdh> kkathman: No, am in the UK :)
[05:25] <pussfeller> so instead of just steling from business, they steal from our children too
[05:26] <whiskers> kkathman, you are ignorant asshole...and really you need to look up the definition of TAX ATTORNEY
[05:26] <kkathman> gdh ahhhh kewl ... what part?
[05:26] <gdh> kkathman: Am in the Grim North.. in a little town called Chorley - about 20 miles north of Manchester.
[05:26] <edsuom> OK, I'll admit it. After Redhat 8 & 9, then Gentoo, then Debian, and thinking I liked "nuts & bolts" level distros, Kubuntu is awesome.
[05:26] <kkathman> whiskers again with the personal attacks, which is very typical of someone that has no facts to back up their arguments. I am far from ignorant.
[05:27] <kkathman> gdh - ahhh very nice. I have been to Manchester a few times...lovely area!
[05:27] <pussfeller> whiskers, why call names just cause he doesn't agree with you
[05:27] <gdh> kkathman: Lots of scraggy areas around too, but that's true of any large city :)
[05:27] <gdh> kkathman: You just need to know where to avoid - again true anywhere
[05:28] <pussfeller> heh not here, we have no bad section
[05:28] <kkathman> true true gdh
[05:28] <gdh> pussfeller: Ah, how's life at the north pole? :)
[05:28] <kkathman> I have a colleague that hails from Newcastle  terrific guy
[05:28] <pussfeller> ok, we have a population of like 10k in the whole county :)
[05:28] <pussfeller> there are a few corn fields i wouldn'
[05:28] <kkathman> but he's really nuts about his football team there :)
[05:28] <pussfeller> t want to get caught at night in
[05:29] <whiskers> pussfeller, because i suspect he is nothing but a cheap corporate whore...trying to self-justify his own greed and ambition
[05:29] <gdh> kkathman: Yeh, football is an unfortunate disease... it seems none of the parties in the run up to the election this week have been taking a stand and promising to put more funding into finding a cure...
[05:30] <gdh> most of the population suffer from it in some way or another
[05:30] <kkathman> whiskers: more personal attacks...well, it always seems to end this way with you. 
[05:30] <gibarian> hello everyone...just installed
[05:31] <kkathman> gdh hahah...yes...big rivalry there he seems to be an anti Man U person, but I understand thats common for Newcastle :)
[05:31] <whiskers> kkathman, that is right...you choose to defend corporations and the rich TAX ATTORNEYS...and then you have the gall to say they pay taxes for the poor.
[05:31] <gibarian> now, where do I get an apt sources.list which has the firefox package?
[05:31] <Tm_T> hmh
[05:31] <kkathman> howdy there Tm_T :)
[05:31] <gdh> kkathman: A good chunk of the country is happy to support 'anyone but Man U' =)
[05:32] <kkathman> gdh so I understand :)
[05:32] <gdh> whiskers: You really need to find a more appropriate forum for this...
[05:32] <kkathman> gibarian I would say that your current sources probably have it, if you havent tampered with them :)
[05:32] <gdh> gibarian: uncomment the 'universe' line in your sources.list
[05:32] <pussfeller> whiskers, what justifies your greed and ambition? or are you pure?
[05:33] <gibarian> ah, I'll try that
[05:33] <gdh> gibarian: then install mozilla-firefox
[05:33] <pussfeller> i know that wanting to use the govt to steal from everybody with money and give it to the poor makes you a better person, but still have a heart
[05:35] <pussfeller> konqy cant do js bookmarks :(
[05:35] <kkathman> pussfeller:  yes I found that out recently also 
[05:36] <pussfeller> there has to be a contect menu for delicious somewhere
[05:36] <gdh> pussfeller: It also fails horribly for maps.google.com, but hey :/
[05:36] <kkathman> pussfeller:  you use Konqy for most of your browsing then?
[05:37] <kkathman> Im still trying to choose between firefox and opera
[05:37] <gibarian> right....I kind of like Kubuntu....very clean
[05:37] <kkathman> for some reason I cannot get firefox to open a link in a new tab as opposed to opening a new instance of FF
[05:37] <kkathman> I thought I had the settings right, cuz my win version works ine
[05:37] <kkathman> fine
[05:38] <gibarian> can't believe connecting to the Internet was so easy
[05:38] <gdh> kkathman: funny, my Konq has started opening new links in tabs without me changing anything, and I wish it didn't :)
[05:38] <gdh> gibarian: You should do adverts for AOL :)
[05:39] <pussfeller> http://priyadi.net/archives/2004/11/04/using-bookmarklet-in-konqueror/
[05:39] <kkathman> gdh lol...I like the tabs, I just hate closing windows all the time :)
[05:39] <gibarian> gdh: no, seriously, with my knoppix HD-install it took me ages...with the little tutorial from the ubuntu website it was a matter of minutes
[05:40] <pussfeller> kkathman, i have been out of laziness since i ditched gentoo on here and installed kubuntu
[05:40] <gdh> gibarian: <nod> It's good to have a complete usable desktop by inserting a CD and pressing Return a few times
[05:41] <gdh> even my crunchy old machine at work running vmware installed in about an hour which is very good going
[05:41] <pussfeller> use the middle ouse to open in a new tab
[05:41] <pussfeller> mouse
[05:41] <kkathman> pussfeller:  you ran gentoo? I have heard good things about that, but its my understanding it tends to be geared around development?
[05:41] <pussfeller> plus theres tabs controller as an extension that can option most things tab wise
[05:41] <pussfeller> its a great distro if you have a fast processor
[05:42] <pussfeller> and or if they make packages precomplied available like they keep hinting
[05:42] <kkathman> pussfeller: yes I was reading in TUX magazine that they recommend it for high end workstations
[05:42] <kkathman> they suggest without a DM too
[05:42] <pussfeller> on a server, its great, cause nothing there will take long to compile even on a slow box
[05:42] <kkathman> right :)
[05:43] <pussfeller> but kde takes 24 hours plus
[05:43] <pussfeller> on my p3 600
[05:43] <pussfeller> plus emerging was crashing my box for some reason so I switched
[05:43] <whiskers> pussfeller, well gentoo is ok...but it is tough keeping up with all the shit coming in everyday
[05:44] <pussfeller> and i also want to sell linux installs to folks and gentoo just wouldnt work for noobs
[05:44] <pussfeller> i think gentoo has been slipping, it seems... i can't be sure whats my failt and whats theres
[05:44] <pussfeller> i still wanna know wtf happened to drobbins
[05:44] <Tm_T> hi kkathman 
[05:45] <kkathman> pussfeller:  do you find that ubuntu is good in that regard?  I.e. for noobies? I would think so since its fairly small (not like FC3) and very performant even on smallish machines.
[05:49] <pussfeller> yes ubuntu is the easiest distro I have seen, once you get over the hidden repos stuff
[05:49] <pussfeller> and with a rich dude behind, it should get even better
[05:50] <kkathman> LOL
[05:51] <kkathman> pussfeller: I agree, but I will admit to being only possibly a step or two above a newbie myself. But I tried several distros and ubuntu just installed perfectly each time on three boxes here, and operates flawlessly. I do wish there were better fonts I guess tho.
[05:51] <edsuom> I did Gentoo for nearly 2 yrs. A royal pain. I really like what I'm seeing with (K)ubuntu.
[05:52] <Tm_T> Kubuntu rocks
[05:52] <kkathman> thanks for your input edsuom!  Did you get your issues worked out last night?
[05:52] <edsuom> Well enough, thanks. I'm getting used to the sudo idea now.
[05:52] <Tm_T> kkathman: did you got blog somewhere?
[05:52] <kkathman> Tm_T: yes
[05:53] <kkathman> thought I gave that to you
[05:53] <edsuom> synaptic is truly awesome.
[05:53] <Tm_T> hmm, don't remember
[05:53] <GameCat> hi all
[05:53] <kkathman> Tm_T in IM
[05:53] <Tm_T> kkathman: thanks :)
[05:53] <kkathman> np
[05:54] <whiskers> what i can't understand is how those poverty stricken Africans over there ever obtained the resources to create ubuntu
[05:55] <GameCat> whiskers: the man who is behind it is anything but poor
[05:55] <GameCat> google mark shuttleworth
[05:56] <kkathman> pussfeller: Im for you too :)
[05:56] <Tm_T> kkathman: just wait when I got my own blog (or equal) up and running :)
[05:56] <spiral> hi
[05:56] <whiskers> GameCat, well i have heard that GNU plans to bankrupt him very soon..
[05:56] <kkathman> Tm_T I look forward to that!
[05:56] <GameCat> whiskers: really? do tell...
[05:57] <whiskers> GameCat, well incubi says that if GNU starts sueing the shit out of these people...then they will listen
[05:57] <GameCat> suing for what?
[05:57] <whiskers> GameCat, for any attempt to make money off GNU property
[05:57] <GameCat> but that's not incompatible with the gpl - making money is allowed
[05:57] <GameCat> otherwise they'd be suing redhat
[05:58] <kkathman> correct GameCat
[05:58] <kkathman> you can sell "value add"
[05:58] <pussfeller> gnu isnt suing anybody
[05:58] <whiskers> GameCat, well RedHat has powerful resources that cause GNU to abstain for the moment
[05:58] <GameCat> kkathman: what do i win? :)
[05:59] <GameCat> hehe session :)
[05:59] <kkathman> ROFL
[05:59] <pussfeller> the sco lawyers are going to be available soon i hear so maybe they can hire them
[05:59] <schasi> which mule client should one use on linux?
[05:59] <kkathman> pussfeller: hehe
[05:59] <kkathman> pussfeller: And you certainly want those guyz :)
[06:03] <Tm_T> kkathman: that will be a wide load of shit, I bet :p (my blog)
[06:03] <GameCat> I have one of those
[06:04] <GameCat> my problem is always getting up the energy to add stuff
[06:05] <Tm_T> :)
[06:06] <kkathman> Tm_T thats ok, I dont write everyday either...only when something hits me as important or unusual
[06:06] <Tm_T> :)
[06:06] <gunny> so it's a GNU viloation to make money Whiskers? 
[06:07] <kkathman> Tm_T thats the purpose of blogging...publish your thoughts and ideas and share with others :)
[06:07] <pussfeller> ubuntu isnt doing anything even remotely outside the gpl
[06:07] <Tm_T> kkathman: yes, and fine purpose it is!
[06:07] <pussfeller> the gpl isnt anti money, its anti closed source
[06:08] <gunny> pussfeller,  totally 
[06:08] <kkathman> gunny: you cannot take something that has a GNU public license, then charge for that.  But if you compile things, add to them and invest your resources on, say a distribution, then you can charge for that. Its all in the packaging.
[06:08] <reagleBRKLN> i'm trying to use smb4k to mount a smb share but it says "smbmnt must be installed suid root for direct user mounts (1000,1000)". also, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DerootificationStatus makes me think suid is not needed?
[06:08] <gunny> Tivo must think making money is against GPL since they haven't sine it was started LOL
[06:09] <pussfeller> i could sell cd's of apache for a billion dollars on my site if I wanted too
[06:09] <gunny> kkathman, I understand that I was trying to understand what whiskers was selling
[06:09] <gunny> er saying 
[06:09] <kkathman> pussfeller: thats true, as long as you put some sort of value add on the disk :)
[06:09] <pussfeller> personally autographed
[06:09] <astro76> kkathman: that's not entirely accurate, added value is not a precondition, you could simpy charge to distribute source
[06:10] <astro76> of course, who would pay for it
[06:10] <kkathman> that value add has to be more or less unique too I would think
[06:10] <pussfeller> nope just have to show the source and available for download for free too I think
[06:10] <kkathman> astro76: actually I believe that you are right on that...because in that case you are incurring cost to distribute...thanks for that clarification :)
[06:10] <astro76> pussfeller: indeed
[06:10] <pussfeller> whats smb4k
[06:11] <kkathman> Hey thoreauputic  :)
[06:11] <thoreauputic> hi kkathman :)
[06:11] <pussfeller> reagleBRKLN, your answer is in the faqs
[06:11] <pussfeller> on the smb4k site
[06:12] <reagleBRKLN> thanks!
[06:28] <whiskers> you people amaze me...now you think you can sell openoffice and apache while someone else does the work
[06:28] <Tm_T> haha
[06:29] <Tm_T> hmm, you gave me an idea...
[06:29] <Tm_T> I will sell my Ubuntu cd-sets :p
[06:29] <Tm_T> uuh, easy money ] ;=
[06:29] <whiskers> you have to understand GNU would like to have a piece of RedHat's ass...they have millions that they could give GNU....but they are very powerful and have powerful alliances...so GNU simply has to abstain for the moment...and also SUSE is in a foreign country and their government doesn't give a shit what GNU thinks
[06:29] <gdh> The GPL does not stop you selling GPL'd code. The market will stop you from being successful at it.
[06:30] <kkathman> gdh: precisely
[06:31] <kkathman> this again gets back to choice. People that write code and choose NOT to copyright, turn over that right legally, as gdh insinuates.
[06:31] <kkathman> its a conscious choice.
[06:32] <gdh> GPL protects your rights.. something like a BSD license allows commercial entities to legally modify your code and sell it, whilst not returning those changes to the source.
[06:32] <gdh> so the greater good does not benefit from the changes
[06:33] <kkathman> And the GNU people wanting RedHat, I dont think that holds water. Truly, if a lawyer thought there was a case here, dont you think that he would take it, knowing the pay out he'd get? Shoot, he'd charge GNU absolutely nothing to pursue it if there was a case :)
[06:33] <kkathman> A lawyer passing on a sure thing?? heheh ::
[06:33] <whiskers> kkathman, well...GNU is letting it slide for now...since RedHat did give GNU quite a bit of money
[06:34] <whiskers> kkathman, but not near what they could get
[06:35] <gdh> Do you really believe stallman is interested in 'loads of money'? Would he have founded GNU in the first instance? 
[06:35] <gdh> Would he preach about 'free as in freedom, not as in price' at every opportunity?
[06:35] <whiskers> gdh, well Stallman did accept a significant amount of money from RedHat
[06:36] <kkathman> GNU taking money??? Say it aint so!
[06:36] <gdh> Of course GNU accepts donations - any large entity has costs to cover :)
[06:36] <gdh> There's a little bit of difference between accepting donations and going out to bleed people dry
[06:37] <kkathman> gdh I was only teasing a bit :)
[06:37] <gdh> :)
[06:37] <gdh> kkathman: wasn't aimed at you :)
[06:38] <gdh> Anyway, much as I enjoy hypothesising in an inappropriate forum, I have carpet to grow =) cheerio :)
[06:40] <kkathman> haha carpet to grow :)
[06:43] <whiskers> psn,  well if you don't know what i am talking about...it is difficult to explain...the thing is GNU already accepted some money from powerful people so it is hard for them to do anything at this time
[06:43] <whiskers> psn, perhaps this list would enlighten you
[06:43] <whiskers> Thank GNUs
[06:43] <whiskers> [image of the Head of a GNU] 
[06:43] <whiskers> This list was recently revised as of 2000-12-15, and a number of donations from late 1998 were added to the list for the first time. We apologize for our oversight! If your listing is incorrect, or if you are listed here when you asked to remain anonymous, please email us and we will correct the problem.
[06:43] <whiskers> 1999 Supporters
[06:43] <whiskers> Large Donations Corporate Sponsors Patrons Sustaining Contributors Contributors Supporters
[06:43] <whiskers> Large Donations
[06:43] <whiskers> The Free Software Foundation acknowledges Cordelia Corporation for its generous grant of $100,000 to establish the Free Software Clearinghouse and On-line Catalog.
[06:43] <whiskers> The Free Software Foundation acknowledges IDG World Expo Corporation for its award of the $25,000 IDG/Linus Torvalds Community Award.
[06:43] <whiskers> Corporate Sponsor
[06:43] <whiskers> IBM Corporation
[06:43] <whiskers> Patrons ($5000 or more)
[06:44] <whiskers> AT Computing (Netherlands)
[06:44] <whiskers> Axis Communications (Sweden)
[06:44] <whiskers> BlockStackers
[06:44] <whiskers> copyleft.net
[06:44] <whiskers> IDG World Expo
[06:44] <whiskers> Yutaka Niibe (Japan)
[06:44] <whiskers> Patmos International
[06:44] <whiskers> Stichting NLnet (Netherlands)
[06:44] <psn> whiskers: yeah so have kde so we'll soom take over the world muhahah
[06:44] <whiskers> VA Linux Systems
[06:44] <whiskers> Sustaining Contributors ($1000 to $4999)
[06:44] <whiskers> Anonymous
[06:44] <whiskers> David Baum
[06:44] <whiskers> Larry Breyer and Thuy-Linh Chu
[06:44] <whiskers> Bala Coomandur
[06:44] <whiskers> Daedalus World Wide
[06:44] <whiskers> Paul Eggert
[06:44] <whiskers> EMC Corporation
[06:44] <whiskers> Andy Glew
[06:44] <whiskers> ECC2-97 Crackers
[06:44] <whiskers> Kazuhisa Ichikawa (Japan)
[06:44] <ojw> psn: if enough people run KDE, then it will be Intel, AMD, and the memory manufacturers taking over the world
[06:44] <whiskers> David W. Ignat
[06:44] <whiskers> IKARIOS (France)
[06:44] <whiskers> Infomagic
[06:44] <whiskers> Frank Kasper & Associates, Inc.
[06:44] <whiskers> Donald and Jill Knuth
[06:44] <whiskers> Kyoto Micro Computer (Japan)
[06:44] <whiskers> Lynn H. Quam
[06:45] <whiskers> Nihon Sun User Group (Japan)
[06:45] <whiskers> Nord Family Foundation
[06:45] <whiskers> Terence O'Gorman (Ireland)
[06:45] <whiskers> O'Reilly & Associates
[06:45] <whiskers> PacifiCorp Foundation, designated by David Boswell
[06:45] <whiskers> Perforce Software, on behalf of Doug Jefferys
[06:45] <whiskers> Radio Computing Services employees
[06:45] <whiskers> Radio Computing Services Charitable Foundation
[06:45] <whiskers> James Robinson
[06:45] <whiskers> Server Corporation
[06:45] <whiskers> Silicon Engineering
[06:45] <whiskers> The Charles W. Sugnet Fund at the Boston Foundation
[06:45] <whiskers> Toshiba Corporation
[06:45] <whiskers> Shinobu Unakami (Japan)
[06:45] <whiskers> United Way contributors
[06:45] <whiskers> Rich Waters and Mary Ann Hauck
[06:45] <whiskers> Whitecross Systems (United Kingdom)
[06:45] <whiskers> Herbert O. Wolfe Foundation
[06:45] <whiskers> Hiroo Yamagata (Japan)
[06:45] <whiskers> Contributors ($500 to $999)
[06:45] <whiskers> Ali Bahrami
[06:45] <whiskers> Coalescent Technologies (Canada)
[06:45] <whiskers> Eckardt & Braun Unix Consultants (Germany
[06:47] <whiskers> psn, well it is only because qt had the upper hand with regard to kde development
[06:47] <psn> whiskers: dream on boy
[06:51] <ztonzy> what a paste :)
[06:53] <Almindor> hello
[06:53] <Almindor> can anyone explain to my why I can't write to my floppy or win32 partitions?
[06:53] <Almindor> I am in floppy and disk groups
[06:53] <Almindor> and they both got 0660 permissions
[06:54] <Almindor> oh and floppy also doesn't get vfat automaticly, I have to mount it manualy(I only have dos fs on my floppies) otherwise I get the "cannot determine type" error
[07:00] <ojw> Almindor: where're your directories? in /mnt/  ?
[07:00] <Almindor> win32 is in mnt
[07:00] <Almindor> floppy is media
[07:01] <Almindor> floppy points to /media/floppy0
[07:01] <ojw> do you get the device icons on your desktop, that you can mount them from the context menu?
[07:01] <Almindor> huh?
[07:02] <Almindor> if I want to use "remote media" I have to go thru the system menu
[07:02] <Almindor> as for win32
[07:02] <Almindor> it's in fstab
[07:03] <Almindor> I had cdroms "popup" shortly after install but it stopped for some reason :)
[07:03] <Almindor> but I can use them normaly if I go throught the "remote places"
[07:03] <Almindor> I just have to mount/eject them through it
[07:03] <thoreauputic> Almindor: FWIW, this is my floppy line in fstab:
[07:03] <thoreauputic> /dev/fd0        /media/floppy0  vfat    rw,user,noauto  0       0
[07:03] <whiskers> psn, look again at the post...it is not you who are taking over the world....it is IBM who is going to take a large part of it back from Microsoft
[07:04] <Almindor> thoreauputic, mine is same except for vfat, I got "auto"
[07:04] <thoreauputic> try vfat, it seems to work
[07:04] <Almindor> well but what if I have ext3 diskettes later?
[07:04] <Almindor> and why can't I write?
[07:04] <thoreauputic> Almindor: dunno
[07:05] <thoreauputic> Almindor: I hardly use floppies these days...
[07:05] <thoreauputic> but that works on my old win ones
[07:05] <Almindor> yeah but I still have no write perms.. ;(
[07:05] <Almindor> it's like if udev.permissions was ignored
[07:05] <thoreauputic> hmmm
[07:05] <Diablo-D3> damn damn damn
[07:06] <psn> whiskers: well I still don't what ever that has to do with donations
[07:06] <ojw> are you trying to write as the root user?  my /media/fd0 is owned by root, which means that 660 permissions don't give my own username write-access
[07:06] <Almindor> ojw, they do if you are in "floppy" group
[07:06] <Almindor> ojw they SHOULD
[07:07] <Almindor> according to udev.permissions I have atleast
[07:07] <whiskers> psn, well you just don't understand...these foundations were laid many years ago....and the fruits are nearly ripe
[07:07] <ojw> what's the group for /media/fd0 ?
[07:07] <Almindor> floppy
[07:07] <ojw> ok
[07:07] <Almindor> "/media/*
[07:07] <Almindor> in my case
[07:07] <psn> whiskers: if you think so that's your problem
[07:08] <whiskers> psn, well there are plenty more FACTS i could post but i don't want to flood
[07:08] <whiskers> psn, i think these facts are sufficient
[07:08] <Almindor> hmm wait
[07:08] <Almindor> only /fd[any]  is mentioned
[07:08] <Almindor> no directories
[07:08] <psn> whiskers: Haven't seen any facts at all yet
[07:08] <whiskers> psn, hey well...too bad...i posted a few
[07:09] <psn> whiskers: yes but nothing supporting your claim
[07:09] <Almindor> # block devices
[07:09] <Almindor> floppy/*:root:floppy:0660
[07:09] <Almindor> fd[0-9] *:root:floppy:0660
[07:09] <Almindor> these are the only ones concerning floppies in my udev file
[07:10] <Almindor> if I mount fd0 it gets root:root not root:floppy
[07:10] <whiskers> psn, whatever.
[07:11] <Choubaka> Hahaa.
[07:11] <Choubaka> So who's taking over the world now?
[07:11] <ojw> how do you mount? using "sudo mount..."
[07:11] <Almindor> that or the "remote places"
[07:11] <Almindor> but the "remote places" fail because of the "auto"
[07:12] <Almindor> but it's also the win32 which get's mounted on boot...
[07:12] <Almindor> it's also ignored and put at root:root(should be root:disk)
[07:12] <Almindor> "storage media"
[07:12] <Almindor> to be precise
[07:15] <ojw> so you just need to find out what's mounting it, and why it's changing the directory permissions?
[07:17] <Almindor> something like that :D
[07:18] <sevilla> hola
[07:18] <ojw> I've got "unmounted floppy/hd-partition icons" checked on my KDE desktop, which gives little "570MB" icons that you can mount, and they appear in /media/  -- don't know how that ties in with the methods you use to mount media
[07:19] <ojw> in desktop behaviour
[07:19] <Almindor> how did you get that?  :)
[07:20] <ojw> on the kde control panel, desktop, behaviour
[07:20] <ojw> by default it doesn't show floppies or disk partitions I think, just CDs, cameras, USB disks etc.
[07:21] <whiskers> well i will be hornswaggled....the new kexi is connecting just fine without any further change in glibc
[07:23] <whiskers> and krita looks even better than gimpshop
[07:23] <Almindor> well
[07:23] <Almindor> it shows them
[07:23] <Almindor> but I still don't have the permissions
[07:25] <whiskers> unbelievable
[07:25] <kkathman> been waiting for krita to be stable...hopefully its getting that way :)
[07:25] <Almindor> whiskers, right
[07:27] <Almindor> brb
[07:34] <kkathman> well my patent attorney got back to me on the codec issue and it seems that we all are a little off base on it :) But its good :)
[07:35] <kkathman> What comes into play here is the issue of "standards"  which I completely ignored..and its a good thing to keep in mind.
[07:36] <kkathman> JPEG, AVI, MPEG and others are STANDARDS.  The Standard is NOT owned, it is published and in the public domain.
[07:37] <kkathman> As such, anyone is free to create their own "codec" based on these standards, and in fact many exist both commerical and free.
[07:38] <kkathman> If you produce an original DVD with an MPEG codec, you do NOT need a license, but your viewer does.  However, as I said, the codecs are readily available. Microsoft's MPEG codec is free of charge for instance, as are many. But there are others that are not.
[07:38] <kkathman> So it seems that the incumbancy in more on the viewer than the creator I suppose.
[07:39] <kkathman> I had one clarifying question that he hasnt responded back on...having to do with incumbancy of right when you use a software package that creates original content in a standards format.
[07:39] <kkathman> so I thought that was interesting :)
[07:43] <ojw> MPEG is public domain, kkathman?
[07:43] <kkathman> the standard is yes
[07:43] <ojw> sure?
[07:43] <kkathman> the codec you use to view it might or might not be
[07:44] <kkathman> yes the standard is public
[07:44] <ojw> care to clarify?
[07:44] <kkathman> i thought I just did above :)
[07:44] <ojw> ok, "standard is in public domain".  So if I convert the standard from english to C++, it will still be PD?
[07:45] <ojw> legal definition of PD obviously
[07:45] <kkathman> well you dont convert the standard, but if you wrote a codec it would be your choice whether you wanted to place that codec in the public domain or, sell it for profit
[07:46] <kkathman> its like the IEEE standards if you will...lots of people make devices and cables for IEEE and their respective devices can be patented
[07:47] <kkathman> but you cant copyright or patent the standard
[07:47] <kkathman> the definition if you will
[07:47] <kkathman> that is incorrect
[07:47] <buz> i think you need a license to distribute it
[07:47] <kkathman> if you want to write a new MPEG codec..go right ahead
[07:47] <ojw> for example, the kubuntu distribution cannot legally distribute an MP3 decoder
[07:47] <buz> actually, in some countries it could
[07:48] <ojw> could they?  could I, as a Brit, publish it, and travel freely in the USA afterwards?
[07:48] <kkathman> well this info came from a patent attorney in the video business so I would think he'd know
[07:48] <kkathman> mmm...that I didnt ask him ojw
[07:49] <kkathman> I think he was working in context of US patent law but I'll check if you want
[07:49] <ojw> some things can look more unrestricted than they actually are, can't they?
[07:50] <kkathman> but the actual standard itself for MPEG at least, is public domain and you can write one yourself if you want
[07:50] <kkathman> I was amazed but now that he explained it, it makes sense
[07:50] <ojw> I could write an MPEG player myself, and distribute it worldwide without breaking any country's laws?
[07:50] <kkathman> look how many different ethernet cards there are...each one patented, but all based on the same standard right?
[07:51] <ojw> there isn't an ethernet working group with an IP portfolio is there?
[07:51] <kkathman> Im sure its the IEEE right?
[07:51] <kkathman> I have not researched that tho
[07:51] <kkathman> but thats the example he gave or one similar
[07:51] <aljosa> link on howto conf. isdnlog to start a program on any call and do nothing else?
[07:52] <bubi> whiskers: 
[07:54] <ojw> ethernet = invented by xerox 1972-6, became a standard 1980, became IEEE standard 1983
[07:56] <kkathman> right
[07:56] <ojw> so can "ethernet" be distributed globally at zero cost, or is it part of a network card which costs money anyway?#
[07:57] <kkathman> ojw I think thats the thing....you can IMPLEMENT the standard in proprietary unique ways...i.e. a board...and thats perfectly legal
[07:58] <kkathman> just like you can write a codec based on the MPEG4 standard and sell it or distribute it
[07:58] <kkathman> I mean there are 100s of codecs available both free and commerical
[07:58] <ojw> how free though?
[07:58] <ojw> they're not free enough to be distributed worldwide by debian or k/ubuntu
[08:00] <kkathman> ojw I think you can download an MPEG codec for Linux and one for Windows for that matter
[08:01] <pussfeller> thats cause redhat and debian are trying to make a point that should probably be made elsewhere
[08:01] <ojw> you think they could distribute it, pussfeller?
[08:01] <pussfeller> the same way gentoo and other distros do
[08:02] <pussfeller> gentoo hasn't been sued and you can emerge all the codes and lame etc
[08:02] <pussfeller> on the other hand, that doesn't mean they couldn't be....
[08:03] <ojw> "hasn't been sued" might not be the perfect test of something's free-ness
[08:03] <pussfeller> its a mess, thats for sure
[08:04] <kkathman> bbiam - on a con call :)
[08:04] <pussfeller> i seem to remember using warty and all I had to do was add universe and everthing was there
[08:04] <pussfeller> now you have to add mariatt or something like that
[08:04] <pussfeller> i could be wrong in recollection it ws a few months ago
[08:06] <ojw> universe = what?  stuff which ubuntu themselves don't publish?
[08:22] <Morten_> Hey - does Kubuntu have a function like Ubuntu (Gnome) where a icon shows in the systray when there is a update?
[08:23] <joda> hey - quick question on Wifi in ubuntu. I'm having trouble getting it to connect to the correct accesspoint. is there some way to "blacklist" an accesspoint, so that my computer will never connect to it?
[08:24] <joda> and failing that, is there som way to renew the ip of the wireless network card without restarting the network?
[08:24] <gunny> Morten: I haven't found one yet
[08:24] <Morten_> okay
[08:24] <gunny> Morten: you can install the gnome one and rn it manually though
[08:24] <gunny> that's what I do 
[08:25] <Morten_> Well, i want KDE
[08:25] <Morten_> ohh
[08:25] <Morten_> is that hard to do?
[08:25] <gunny> its just a gtk app not the entire desktop ;p;
[08:25] <Morten_> okay ..
[08:26] <gunny> sudo apt-get install update-manager
[08:26] <gunny> sorry I had to look it up ;) 
[08:26] <Morten_> thats all?
[08:26] <gunny> yes
[08:26] <Morten_> hmm, quite easy
[08:26] <Morten_> ill try it, thx :)
[08:26] <gunny> it will be an item in your kde system mneu 
[08:27] <gunny> it just wont run automaticly
[08:31] <joda> noone has any advice on the wireless network questions?
[08:32] <gunny> sorry joda It's been  awhile since I used wireless in ubuntu and when I did, I only have 1 access point 
[08:33] <joda> hmm - guess I'll have to go back and try google again :)
[08:36] <whiskers> man this koffice is nice....kde has improved a lot over the years since i first saw them
[08:38] <hussam> I have a saa7134 tv card. I loaded the driver using: modeprobe saa7134 card=11 tuner=2
[08:38] <hussam> The video works but without sound. Linein volume is set correctly and all sound cables are set up correctly. The used to work in fedora and it still works in WindowsXP. Even if I hookup the tv card directly to the speakers, no sound comes out.
[08:38] <hussam> any idea?
[08:42] <whiskers> look at this BMI calculator in kspread....as if people won't know thats IBM turned around
[08:42] <whiskers> or the HAL layer
[08:42] <whiskers> this is humoruous
[08:43] <Diablo-D3> heheh
[08:44] <kkathman> nice I love short con calls :)
[08:45] <whiskers> oh.well at least glibc did not have to have significant changes and ruin all of ubuntu's repositories
[08:48] <joda> this sucks - I can get it to connect to the correct AP with the wireless network tool in the controlcenter, but I can't get it to pull an ip adress from the dhcp server, unless I restart the network
[08:48] <joda> and when I do that, it connects to the wrong ap, and gets the wrong ip...
[08:52] <whiskers> well i don't know why that Carnegie guy wanted IBM to be on equal footing with MS...but well i guess they are competitive
[08:53] <SilvereX> anyone knows a command line parameter to konqueror to open url in new tab instead of new window?
[08:55] <NTolerance> anyone know of any alternatives to klaptop
[08:56] <NTolerance> it's just too unstable for me
[09:01] <whiskers> i am sure glad i'm not tangled up with who is going to control the world....i am just waiting for my papers out of here.
[09:02] <aljosa> is it posible to regenerate kde menu? apps are  in wrong submenus or missing.
[09:05] <crimsun> aljosa: sudo update-menus
[09:05] <kkathman> aljosa: you can change them in the KDE Control Center too
[09:07] <aljosa> that
[09:07] <aljosa> menu package in apt?
[09:07] <whiskers> the funny thing is that even with commecial codecs....movies on os2 looked like shit....and on linux even with the free theora/vorbis....they look very nice
[09:10] <aljosa> suse reports hfc-pci isdn card and it works. does it work with ubuntu?
[09:10] <whiskers> aljosa, depends on how they compiled the kernel and what modules they included
[09:11] <whiskers> aljosa, but it would seem strange if one had a different set of modules than another...becuase most distributors compile all possible modules
[09:12] <aljosa> i need isdnlog to start a program with caller_id param, are there any conf utils for that available?
[09:12] <whiskers> aljosa, what you can do is put the card in and try to manually load the driver with lsmod
[09:13] <kkathman> Here is the response I have been waiting for from the patent attorney!!
[09:14] <aljosa> crimsun: isn't update-menus for grub? it didn't work for kde menus..
[09:15] <kkathman> I asked the following "If indeed it is true that the MPEG4 or whateve is a defined standard, then anyone or everyone should be capable of writing their own codec for reading or writing that format in whatever piece of software. So, if I wrote a piece of software to include the capability to write MPEG4 DVDs then Im breaking no laws or patent or copyright?
[09:15] <kkathman> Answer... That is correct
[09:15] <whiskers> kkathman, so what does all that bullshit mean...is mplayer legal
[09:16] <kkathman> Further... If someone give you a DVD with content and you use a generic player in Linux and implemented any MPEG4 codec, then you are clean also.
[09:16] <crimsun> aljosa: you're mistaking it for update-grub
[09:16] <whiskers> kkathman, yes but is mplayer/mencoder legal on linux
[09:16] <whiskers> in the US
[09:17] <kkathman> according to him, whiskers if you write a package and write your own implemntation of the MPEG4 standard you arent breaking any laws
[09:17] <edulix> hey !
[09:17] <whiskers> kkathman, that is what mplayer did
[09:17] <kkathman> so I dont know about mplayer personally, but you can extrapolate I suppose
[09:17] <kkathman> then its clean
[09:17] <edulix> still noone tried koffice 1.4 beta 1 in kubuntu ?
[09:17] <whiskers> kkathman, but who is that guy ....does he speak for all lawyers in the US
[09:17] <edulix> I'm having problems with the debs available in ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/unstable/koffice-1.4-beta1/kubuntu
[09:18] <kkathman> hes a patent attorney for a video production corporation so Im pretty sure he knows what he's talking about
[09:18] <kkathman> but it makes sense. to me
[09:18] <edulix> that allegadly were done by kubuntu's creep
[09:18] <whiskers> kkathman, well lawyers are a dime a dozen and they don't always agree on everything....so you might ask around before another one drags you before a judge.
[09:18] <kkathman> now if you bought a commerical implementation of a codec, and simply included it with your player I think thats a problem
[09:19] <whiskers> kkathman, no...mplayer wrote their own libavformat and libavcodec
[09:19] <edulix> I get: "rying to overwrite `/usr/lib/libkdchart.so.0.0.0', which is also in package kchart"
[09:19] <kkathman> then its clean, legally
[09:19] <whiskers> kkathman, that was their own implementation...but see ...nobody knows if it is legal on linux in the US
[09:20] <edulix> is there any workaround for that kind of errors ?
[09:20] <edulix> (apt-get -f install doesn't solve the problem)
[09:20] <kkathman> cuz the MPEG4 standard (actually group of standards,  is in the public domain, developed by the ISO and IEC
[09:21] <edulix> I also asked in #kubuntu-users but noone answered.. :-/
[09:21] <edulix> ups
[09:21] <edulix> I also asked in kubuntu-users mailing lists but noone answered.. :-/
[09:21] <kkathman> I am sure however, that if you tried to package Microsoft's MPEG4 codec in something, even tho its free, I think thats pretty iffy
[09:21] <Diablo-D3> wtf is the questiom?
[09:22] <kkathman> cuz Im sure its under the EULA for personal use only
[09:22] <Diablo-D3> microsoft's mpeg4 codec is not mpeg4
[09:22] <whiskers> kkathman, well i don't really give a shit...i am just going to use theora/vorbis/flac....and avoid the whole issue
[09:22] <Diablo-D3> so that solves your problem right there
[09:22] <Diablo-D3> _that_ and ffmpeg can already playback faulty microsoft mpeg4 data
[09:22] <kkathman> thats good too, cuz they are open source codecs right?
[09:25] <whiskers> it is similar to that libwv2 which is an optional compile for koffice....and i will just avoid the whole issue
[09:25] <error403> could somebody please point me in the direction of an APT source for wine ?
[09:25] <whiskers> i don't need MS commercial codecs or thier proprietary formats
[09:26] <whiskers> error403, it should be in synaptic
[09:26] <kkathman> Diablo-D3 or Whisker do you guyz use Synaptic very often?
[09:26] <whiskers> error403, oh..sorry you want the source
[09:27] <error403> yeah
[09:27] <Diablo-D3> I use synaptic sometimes
[09:27] <kkathman> error403: maybe www.winehq.org   (or maybe .com)
[09:27] <error403> im only on default sources at the mo
[09:27] <error403> i mean to install it with APT
[09:27] <whiskers> kkathman, when it is possible...but most of the stuff in synaptic that i looked at would break the system
[09:27] <error403> damn, im confusing myself...
[09:27] <kkathman> Diablo-D3: i wonder if you can help me solve an issue Im having with it
[09:27] <Diablo-D3> kkathman: what?
[09:27] <whiskers> kkathman, so i just compiled a lot of stuff myself...and a lot more to go
[09:28] <error403> whiskers: what source do i need to add to apt/synaptic to get the wine package?
[09:28] <kkathman> whiskers and Diablo-D3  I do an apt-get update...not a problem...goes through fine.  But I get in Synaptic and it reports I have a bunch of "broken" packages.
[09:28] <error403> or will i need to compile from source?
[09:29] <whiskers> kkathman, that is right ...because like i just said ...a lot of stuff in synaptic will break your system
[09:29] <whiskers> kkathman, that is why i compile my own
[09:29] <Diablo-D3> kkathman: apt-get fix...something
[09:29] <Diablo-D3> apt-get check methinks
[09:30] <whiskers> kkathman, just look at apache2-dev and watch how much it will break if you try to install it
[09:31] <kkathman> My apache2 seems to work ok...or has for about 2 months now under my development load
[09:31] <kkathman> course I dont open it up either
[09:33] <whiskers> kkathman, no...go back and look at apache2-threaded-dev and act like you are going to install it....but watch what happens and then don't install it
[09:33] <whiskers> kkathman, there is a whole lot of stuff in synaptic that will break your system
[09:33] <kkathman> Diablo-D3: thank you that was what I needed
[09:34] <kkathman> it was "freemind" that had unresolved dependencies
[09:34] <whiskers> kkathman, no...that is not what i am talking about...just go look for yourself
[09:34] <whiskers> kkathman, there is some stuff that wants to take out the whole of gnome
[09:35] <whiskers> kkathman, that is why i had to compile libdb4.3 myself
[09:35] <kkathman> whiskers: I had that experience once with xfce... I installed it and it really lunched my gnome install
[09:35] <Choubaka> whiskers: wtf.
[09:35] <Choubaka> stop spreading FUD
[09:35] <kkathman> but my apache works fine ... havent had a prob
[09:35] <whiskers> Choubaka, it is not fud...go look for yourself....and quit acusing
[09:35] <Choubaka> "a lot" of packages from synaptic will not break anyone's system.
[09:36] <whiskers> Choubaka, go to synaptic and try to get apache2-threaded-dev
[09:36] <Choubaka> unless they're using breezy
[09:36] <whiskers> Choubaka, simple...just try it before opening your mouth
[09:36] <kkathman> I installed apache through Xampp and had no probs at all
[09:37] <whiskers> kkathman, the threaded version or the crippled non-threaded
[09:37] <Choubaka> whiskers: installs perfectly.
[09:37] <kkathman> but again thats just me and I use the standard ubuntu stuff cuz Im not advanced enough to go and get into compiling libs :)
[09:37] <whiskers> Choubaka, you used synaptic for apache2-THREADED-dev
[09:37] <whiskers> Choubaka, or did you pick something else
[09:38] <Choubaka> whiskers: yes.
[09:38] <kkathman> whiskers: no idea...I just followed the instructions on the xamp linux site and it installed and worked
[09:38] <Choubaka> apache2-threaded-dev
[09:38] <whiskers> Choubaka, well it sure doesn't work  here.
[09:38] <kkathman> I just need it for a localhost server to test my web designs
[09:38] <Choubaka> I do not know what you have done to your system.
[09:38] <Choubaka> but stop spreading FUD
[09:39] <whiskers> Choubaka, it is not fud...this is the message i get....depends on libapr0 and libdb4.2 which will not be installed
[09:39] <whiskers> Choubaka, now perhaps you did not follow through
[09:39] <Choubaka> whiskers: you have some weird settings.
[09:39] <kkathman> whiskers is it possible that in the tweaking that you have done, i.e. your own compiles, that something caused a problem elsewhere? Just asking if thats a possibility.
[09:39] <Choubaka> my apache also depended on those, and worked just fine
[09:40] <whiskers> kkathman, no..because synaptic is completely unaware of what i compile
[09:40] <Choubaka> ...
[09:40] <Choubaka> that is the problem.
[09:40] <whiskers> Choubaka, it says those will not be installed
[09:40] <whiskers> Choubaka, period...no fud about it
[09:40] <Choubaka> whiskers: maybe you have installed some external packages that conflict with those packages.
[09:41] <whiskers> Choubaka, i just told you...synaptic knows nothing of what i compile
[09:41] <Choubaka> yeah
[09:41] <Choubaka> and that's a problem
[09:41] <r3v> any one using kopete 10.0?, how did that make it into the apt tree?
[09:41] <whiskers> Choubaka, synaptic says libdb4.2 and libapr0 will not be installed...perhaps you did not follow through
[09:42] <Choubaka> whiskers: follow through what?
[09:42] <whiskers> Choubaka, select apache2-threaded-dev and mark for installation and then press apply
[09:42] <Choubaka> I did
[09:42] <Choubaka> worked.
[09:42] <kkathman> r3v: I used to use Kopete but apparently they are being sued out of business for copyright infringement so I quit
[09:42] <Choubaka> installed
[09:43] <whiskers> Choubaka, and you see no comments about libapr0 or libdb4.2
[09:43] <Choubaka> apache2-threaded-dev doesn't even depend on those.
[09:43] <Choubaka> only their -devs
[09:43] <whiskers> Choubaka, that is the message i get
[09:43] <Choubaka> which also installed just fine :)
[09:43] <r3v> kkathman: well 10.0 was released broken.  I wanna use it, but it just doesn't work well at all
[09:43] <whiskers> Choubaka, what version of hoary are you using
[09:43] <r3v> kkathman: european crap getting them?
[09:43] <Choubaka> what version of hoary? wtf.
[09:43] <Choubaka> Hoary is Hoary.
[09:44] <kkathman> r3v: yes...exactly, have you tried their website maybe there is a notice of 10.0
[09:44] <whiskers> Choubaka, well maybe not....apparently something is different between what i see and what you see
[09:44] <Choubaka> apparently
[09:44] <r3v> kkathman: nothing on website about that prob, but devels know about it.  it's fixed in cvs apparently
[09:44] <Choubaka> our system seems broken
[09:44] <Choubaka> your*
[09:44] <kkathman> rv3 ahh ok
[09:44] <whiskers> Choubaka, no my system is not broken...except for linmodem support
[09:45] <Choubaka> but I doubt other people are having the same trouble as you.
[09:45] <r3v> kkathman: can't the european crap be fixed by using servers outside of europe?
[09:45] <whiskers> Choubaka, well i got a preliminary version of hoary...so who knows
[09:45] <Choubaka> preliminary?
[09:45] <Choubaka> wtf?
[09:45] <Choubaka> There is only one hoary.
[09:45] <kkathman> r3v: I honestly dont know that much about the European issues, but if you have a solution Im sure the Kopete people would love to hear them :)
[09:45] <whiskers> Choubaka, yes...when i got it..it said something about pre-release or something
[09:46] <Choubaka> saying "many packages from synaptic will break your system" is FUD
[09:46] <whiskers> Choubaka, beats me....but i definitely see something different than you do
[09:46] <r3v> kkathman: well... my solution ends in 11 days.  so don't think it'd help much :)
[09:46] <Choubaka> whiskers: when did you last run apt-get upgrade ?
[09:46] <whiskers> Choubaka, never
[09:46] <Choubaka> well, DUH
[09:47] <Choubaka> keep your system upgraded.
[09:47] <Choubaka> Hoary has gone stable.
[09:47] <kkathman> r3v I do have 0.10 actually...comes std with ubuntu
[09:47] <whiskers> Choubaka, well that is what i told you...my system is a little different than yours
[09:47] <Choubaka> a lot of things should have changed after you installed the pre-release hoary
[09:47] <kkathman> r3v whats the bug?
[09:47] <Choubaka> since*
[09:47] <r3v> kkathman: it just doesn't get/recieve messages sometimes
[09:47] <r3v> kkathman: on AIM
[09:48] <r3v> kkathman: as far as me and some friends can tell it seems random
[09:48] <kkathman> r3v ooooooooo the worst kind of problem
[09:48] <Choubaka> whiskers: run sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[09:48] <Choubaka> at least have an up-to-date system before you start complaining.
[09:49] <pussfeller> i cant wait for google to do an instant messenger
[09:50] <pussfeller> then its goodby msn
[09:50] <Choubaka> Googim.
[09:50] <kkathman> r3v: one of the odd things about these all in one IMers, is that they are all hacks into the respective servers, and AOL Yahoo, etc are always doing weird things to attempt to block those hacks, so that might explain the randomness
[09:52] <r3v> kkathman: yeah
[09:52] <Choubaka> because it's pop to have a proprietary protocol.
[09:52] <Choubaka> damn them bastards.
[09:53] <kkathman> I guess I dont understand ... if you have a free service and it basically behooves you to have lots of people on your messenger network, why would they object to 3rd party involvement...I know they say "security" but I dont believe that
[09:54] <r3v> I just wish people I know would just agree on one, sucks having 4 accounts on diff protocols just to talk to everyone I wanna
[09:54] <r3v> that's an easy one
[09:54] <kkathman> r3v the ads?
[09:54] <r3v> they get $$ for them ads they put in their messengers
[09:54] <bubi> whiskers: 
[09:54] <kkathman> wow...I guess thats true
[09:55] <r3v> my messenger has no ads, so I use their network and they don't get money from sponsors
[09:55] <r3v> well they probably lie and say that I see their ads for more money, but you get the idea :)
[09:55] <bubi> i played with hdparm and hdparm.config but i still cant get dma enable
[09:55] <whiskers> bubi, yes
[09:55] <kkathman> gotcha...lol...I never pay attention to those ads..and MSN doesnt have them do they, except that MSN Today thing?
[09:55] <bubi> i played with hdparm and hdparm.config but i still cant get dma enable
[09:55] <whiskers> bubi, what is it 
[09:56] <bubi> i played with hdparm and hdparm.config but i still cant get dma enable
[09:56] <whiskers> bubi, ok did you compile hdparm6.1 first
[09:56] <bubi> it doesnt alow me to
[09:56] <bubi> uhmm no
[09:56] <eckhart> hi
[09:56] <whiskers> bubi, because there were some block issues
[09:56] <kkathman> I know that AOL finally just gave up on their litigation against Trillian
[09:56] <bubi> ahh
[09:56] <whiskers> bubi, well go do that first
[09:56] <bubi> do u have link for it
[09:57] <bubi> ill google
[09:57] <whiskers> bubi, i can't remember all the links but i have the source here if you want it
[09:57] <bubi> sure mail it
[09:57] <whiskers> ok...what is that gmail address agai
[09:57] <whiskers> again
[09:57] <bubi> dragan.marinovic@gmail.com
[09:58] <r3v> another thing on a diff topic, when will bzflag version 2.anything be apt-get'able?
[09:59] <r3v> right now I am running pre-compiled from sf.net in my home dir, but I know that it is actually keeping some people in my LUG from using [k] ubuntu
[09:59] <r3v> (we play alot of games)
[10:00] <whiskers> bubi, ok it is on its way
[10:00] <bubi> cool tnx
[10:01] <bubi> ill get back after compile and trial :P
[10:01] <whiskers> bubi, ok no problem
[10:02] <whiskers> bubi, how many burners do you have
[10:02] <bubi> one dvd burner and a regular CD rom
[10:03] <whiskers> bubi, ok is your burner /dev/hdc or /dev/hdd
[10:03] <bubi> dvd is HDA 
[10:03] <Diablo-D3> not this again
[10:03] <whiskers> bubi, no...which device is allocated to it
[10:03] <bubi> remmeber sata disk :)
[10:03] <Diablo-D3> whiskers: his dvd _is /dev/hda
[10:03] <bubi> yeh
[10:04] <bubi> :P
[10:04] <bubi> u gotta love sata disks
[10:04] <whiskers> bubi, uh..oh...you are going to have to make some changes to my config file
[10:04] <Diablo-D3> bubi: not really
[10:04] <bubi> i did it allready
[10:04] <Diablo-D3> your sata driver sucks
[10:04] <bubi> no
[10:04] <Diablo-D3> its the current policy that any sata driver that uses the scsi subsystem officially sucks
[10:04] <bubi> sata disk is A OK
[10:04] <Diablo-D3> policy of Linus I mean
[10:05] <whiskers> bubi, ok...well you see where i have /dev/hda...that is for my hard drive...and where i have the settings for /dev/hdd...that is for the burner....so don't get them confused and translate to your system
[10:05] <bubi> yes whiskers i saw it and corrected it for my system setup
[10:06] <whiskers> bubi, well ok...do a hdparm -tT and see if you don't notice a large difference
[10:06] <whiskers> bubi, but with that sata stuff i don't know anything
[10:07] <whiskers> bubi, it might work and it might not...i don't know because i don't have that hardware
[10:07] <bubi> ill probe it frist with my original setup
[10:07] <bubi> BBL
[10:07] <bubi> 15 mins
[10:14] <r3v> while no one is talking... bzflag... newer one... version 2... can it be added to [k] ubuntu
[10:16] <kkathman> anyone know anything about java runtime and/or java virtual machine?
[10:17] <r3v> yeah
[10:17] <r3v> i use it
[10:17] <r3v> program for it when I have to
[10:17] <kkathman> r3v ok.. I installed the java sdk the other night
[10:18] <r3v> sdk?.. that one's not an option anymore :-P
[10:18] <kkathman> there is an application I want to use, but it is giving me dependencies..
[10:18] <r3v> jdk or jre?
[10:18] <r3v> which dependencies?
[10:18] <kkathman> r3v:  j2rel.4, java2-runtime, and java-virtual-machine
[10:18] <r3v> oh... your trying to apt-get it?
[10:19] <kkathman> r3v I did an apt-cache search java, and Im tryng to figure out what exactly I need
[10:19] <r3v> well... you have j2re, but not in .deb format
[10:19] <r3v> is there a way to make apt-get ignore dependancies?
[10:19] <kkathman> dunno
[10:20] <r3v> or are you up on making .deb's?
[10:20] <kkathman> but I suppose there are pkgs there
[10:20] <kkathman> I think there IS a deb there
[10:20] <r3v> there are no official java packages in .deb in debian and I think not in ubuntu... due to the liscensing being retarded
[10:20] <kkathman> but there are also pkgs in the repos
[10:21] <kkathman> r3v hold on let me check something
[10:21] <r3v> I'm on a debian machine right now so I can't check
[10:21] <kkathman> jamvm - Java Virtual Machine which conforms to JVM specification 2
[10:22] <kkathman> java-common - Base of all Java packages
[10:22] <kkathman> those are the ones I see
[10:22] <kkathman> theres also a lib there too
[10:22] <r3v> what are you trying to install?
[10:23] <kkathman> those 3 dependencies
[10:23] <r3v> that depends on java2-runtime?
[10:23] <kkathman> j2rel.4,  java2-runtime,   java-virtual-machine
[10:24] <r3v> but you want one of them cause of another program right?
[10:24] <kkathman> yep
[10:24] <r3v> and that would be?
[10:24] <kkathman> its called "Freemind"
[10:24] <kkathman> its a mind mapping tool
[10:25] <kkathman> but if there is something else I'll use that ;)
[10:25] <r3v> this is more a dependancy issue than a java issue
[10:25] <kkathman> its at freemind.sourceforge.net
[10:26] <r3v> cause you got java from java.sun.com right?
[10:26] <kkathman> yep
[10:26] <eckhart> hi
[10:26] <r3v> so you have j2re, just apt-get doesn't know it
[10:26] <kkathman> i installed the java sdk I think
[10:27] <eckhart> i just downloaded the koffice 1.4 beta and installed it
[10:27] <eckhart> now i have the problem that kexi does not work
[10:27] <r3v> kkathman: what if you try apt-get -m install freemind
[10:27] <kkathman> r3v hold on let me double check that ok?
[10:27] <r3v> kkathman: nevermind... doesn't work
[10:28] <r3v> join #debian
[10:28] <r3v> whoops :)
[10:30] <kkathman> r3v I installed the file from this site:  http://192.18.97.149/ECom/EComTicketServlet/BEGIN6B998FCCA483D3BA9C581DB3A183C81A/-2147483648/839847183/1/615302/615170/839847183/2ts+/westCoastFSEND/jdk-1.5.0_03-oth-JPR/jdk-1.5.0_03-oth-JPR:4/jdk-1_5_0_03-linux-i586.bin
[10:30] <kkathman> it was a bin from the java.sun.com site
[10:31] <r3v> rumour has it, java-package is the new name for mpkg-j2se... err,
[10:31] <r3v>              I mean j2se-package... DAMN IT, CAN'T THEY PICK A NAME?!  Anyway,
[10:31] <r3v>              it lets you build a .deb file from Sun's non-free upstream Java
[10:31] <r3v>              distributions.  See "man make-jpkg".  Cf. "make-kpkg" (from
[10:31] <r3v>              kernel-package).only in sarge and sid currently, but it's a -all
[10:31] <r3v>              package, so it's safe to use it in woody. This packages lives in
[10:31] <r3v>              'contrib', so make sure you have that in your sources.list.
[10:31] <r3v> sorry for flood, but most arn't talking anways :)
[10:31] <r3v> that will let you make your own .deb from the thing you download from java.sun.org
[10:32] <r3v> then you will have the dependancy
[10:32] <kkathman> hmm ok
[10:32] <kkathman> I will check that out
[10:32] <kkathman> thank you :)
[10:32] <r3v> if you ever are having issues with apt
[10:33] <r3v> the 'dpkg' bot on #debian is really good
[10:34] <whiskers> kkathman, well i don't see why you get so gung ho on .net or java
[10:34] <whiskers> kkathman, the best code was written in c,C++, and objc
[10:35] <r3v> whiskers: what?
[10:36] <r3v> whiskers: best code is in assembly :)
[10:36] <whiskers> r3v, well yes but i did not want to bring out an atomic bomb to kill a mosquito
[10:36] <r3v> haha
[10:36] <r3v> that would kill it though
[10:36] <r3v> wouldn't wanna take a change it lived :)
[10:37] <whiskers> kkathman, as far as i can tell...java and .net both only are useful as network apps
[10:38] <whiskers> kkathman, and since most people only have one computer....i dont see the need for networked applications
[10:38] <r3v> i don't wanna start a war with this, but I think qt is easier for networking then java
[10:38] <r3v> what??? only one
[10:38] <r3v> i have 4 on this desk alone
[10:39] <whiskers> kkathman, say other than bittorrent...but that did not require java or .net either
[10:40] <r3v> he needs it to run some brain mapping software btw
[10:42] <whiskers> r3v, yes he sure does...i think all these corporations are lunatics
[10:43] <Shaquile> Do you know how many people who is in jail in USA?
[10:44] <whiskers> Shaquile, yes...damn near the whole country
[10:44] <r3v> not the 'whole' country
[10:44] <r3v> i'm not :)
[10:44] <Diablo-D3> Shaquile: millions
[10:44] <Diablo-D3> Im in prison
[10:44] <Diablo-D3> right now
[10:44] <whiskers> Shaquile, the US is trying to make money off the prison systems now
[10:44] <Shaquile> whiskers: no..
[10:44] <Shaquile> whiskers: But 8 millions.... that's my whole country :P Sweden
[10:45] <Shaquile> Diablo-D3: You are? Noo
[10:45] <Diablo-D3> 8 million is quite a lot
[10:45] <Diablo-D3> Shaquile: yup, ircing from prison
[10:45] <whiskers> Shaquile, well uh...just be glad you don't live here
[10:45] <Shaquile> Diablo-D3: You can't irc when your in prison? 
[10:45] <Shaquile> whiskers: :/
[10:45] <Diablo-D3> Shaquile: No. You can't.
[10:47] <whiskers> Diablo-D3, funny you mentioned that...i heard in the news somewhere that they were going to let prisoners have their own websites....so they can tell their side of the story
[10:48] <whiskers> Diablo-D3, but i haven't heard anything more on it in awhile
[10:48] <Diablo-D3> yeah, because its stupid
[10:48] <r3v> I wouldn't be surprised if you could soon.  Apparently it's cruel and unusual punishment to not have cable
[10:48] <Diablo-D3> we dont need more fucking bloggers
[10:48] <Diablo-D3> r3v: its not cable thats bad
[10:48] <Diablo-D3> I think prisoners should have full access to the news stations
[10:48] <whiskers> Diablo-D3, yes...i think we do...they take away all those people's voting rights and everything else....they should be able to tell their side of the story
[10:49] <Diablo-D3> But anything else should be fully restricted
[10:49] <r3v> I don't think prisoner should have tv access at all
[10:49] <whiskers> Diablo-D3, i think they should be given websites
[10:49] <Diablo-D3> r3v: no, they should always be informed of the outside world
[10:49] <Diablo-D3> r3v: that in itself is a punishment
[10:49] <whiskers> Diablo-D3, no...not be informed...but inform the world
[10:49] <r3v> Diablo-D3: you think what you want, I'll think what I want :)
[10:50] <whiskers> Diablo-D3, they should have their own websites to tell the tragedies this government imposes on them
[10:50] <Diablo-D3> whiskers: I'm not even paying attention to you
[10:50] <Diablo-D3> I already said that we dont need more clueless bloggers
[10:50] <Diablo-D3> And thats it.
[10:50] <Diablo-D3> Period. End of conversation.
[10:50] <whiskers> Diablo-D3, well we end it in disagreement
[10:51] <Diablo-D3> Not really, I can just have you put in prison.
[10:51] <whiskers> Diablo-D3, big fucking deal...i've been there and the nuthouses too
[10:51] <Diablo-D3> ooooh shiney!
[10:51] <whiskers> Diablo-D3, it won't change a damn  thing
[10:52] <Diablo-D3> whiskers: fear my brand of humor
[10:52] <whiskers> Diablo-D3, we disagree and that is that....i belong on the Holy Mountain...not in this place
[10:52] <pussfeller> im even more powerful than you Diablo-D3 
[10:52] <pussfeller> im dick cheney
[10:52] <Diablo-D3> Goddamn, you're on irc too?!
[10:52] <pussfeller> yes, now back you your room
[10:52] <Diablo-D3> Dick, when you pas the fridge, get me a beer
[10:53] <Diablo-D3> ... you know, there is something seriously wrong with that.
[10:54] <whiskers> well i am bigger than both of yall...i am Rush Limbaugh
[10:55] <Diablo-D3> bah, fucking druggie
[10:55] <pussfeller> what? what? what?
[10:55] <whiskers> no Elvis was a druggie...Rush is a bag of hot air.
[10:56] <pussfeller> rush used to be pretty funny
[10:56] <Diablo-D3> er, wasnt it Rush that was busted for being a druggie?
[10:56] <pussfeller> yep, exposed more than busted
[10:56] <whiskers> Diablo-D3, no that was Oral Roberts I think...who drove his son to commit suicide
[10:56] <whiskers> Diablo-D3, you know that has to be a tough road.
[10:56] <pussfeller> oral roberts didn't drive his son to commit suicide, jeesh
[10:57] <whiskers> pussfeller, yes he did
[10:57] <Diablo-D3> no, he just drove him to walmart to get the gun
[10:57] <pussfeller> one of his kids killed himself, but its not oral roberts fault
[10:57] <whiskers> pussfeller, he tried to force Christianity on his son....and his son rebeled
[10:57] <pussfeller> his son was full grown when he did it
[10:57] <Diablo-D3> hell, if I was stuck in a christian world, I'd commit suicide too
[10:58] <pussfeller> oral roberts was a great man back in the day
[10:58] <whiskers> pussfeller, same thing with Jim Baker....he tried to force Christianity on his wife....and she rebelled by fucking other men
[10:58] <pussfeller> then he got rich and the story gets muddy
[10:59] <pussfeller> heh, no whiskers
[10:59] <whiskers> pussfeller, yes..she did...she even married another man
[10:59] <NTolerance> hay gays, what's going on in this Communism?
[10:59] <NTolerance> :cool:
[10:59] <pussfeller> bakker was in the can on trumped up charges and she married a rich man who was bakkers best friend, and a fellow "brother"
[11:00] <whiskers> pussfeller, yes...well so what ....a damn preacher knocked up my wife
[11:00] <whiskers> pussfeller, i say fuck these Americans
[11:00] <pussfeller> bakker met tammyfaye in bible school btw, so I doubt if jim bakker forced anything on her
[11:00] <pussfeller> a bunch of preachers killed jesus, so go figure
[11:01] <NTolerance> you at work whiskers, or are you at home leeching off of the welfare state?
[11:02] <whiskers> NTolerance, i am not leeching....i did not even qualify for food stamps because the Mexicans and the Blacks all needed them
[11:02] <pussfeller> he could be at work leeching off the welfare state
[11:02] <NTolerance> ah
[11:02] <whiskers> NTolerance, i am trying to get my papers in order so i can leave this fucking country
[11:03] <NTolerance> do so
[11:03] <pussfeller> i have a freind, a former staffer for one of the socalled "contract with america" republicans, who is paid to get govt grants for a huge ag company
[11:03] <NTolerance> immediately
[11:03] <kkathman> whew man he's hitting everyone today, minorities, Christians, anyone thats not to blame for the world? hehe
[11:03] <NTolerance> move to Communist China
[11:03] <NTolerance> or even better
[11:03] <Diablo-D3> heh
[11:03] <NTolerance> North Korea
[11:03] <whiskers> kkathman, nope...just stating facts..
[11:03] <Diablo-D3> I want to move to another country =/
[11:03] <pussfeller> i want to move to commie china!
[11:03] <whiskers> Diablo-D3, well i damn sure do.
[11:03] <pussfeller> or japan that would be better
[11:04] <Diablo-D3> japan would be nice if I spoke japanese
[11:04] <pussfeller> i figure learning ruby will help if i move to japan
[11:04] <whiskers> Diablo-D3, nope...I know where I am supposed to go...I have some friends on the Holy Mountain....and that is where I need to be.
[11:04] <Diablo-D3> wtf is this holy mountain bullshit you keep talking about?
[11:04] <pussfeller> Olympus?
[11:05] <pussfeller> You know Zues?
[11:05] <kkathman> yep
[11:05] <kkathman> oops wrong window ;)
[11:05] <whiskers> pussfeller, here...learn about REAL Men
[11:05] <whiskers> http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Athos/
[11:06] <pussfeller> like freddy mercury?
[11:06] <NTolerance> that links to goatse
[11:06] <whiskers> pussfeller, who in the hell was Freddy Mercury
[11:06] <whiskers> NTolerance, not hardly.
[11:06] <NTolerance> it might as well
[11:06] <Diablo-D3> freddy mercury, the zath... zath....
[11:06] <Diablo-D3> zath...
[11:07] <Diablo-D3> Goddamnit >_<
[11:07] <whiskers> NTolerance, no...those monks are not queer...they live alone and separated in the caves and cliff sides
[11:07] <whiskers> NTolerance, they are not like the damn Catholics
[11:08] <pussfeller> i like their outfits better than the catholics
[11:08] <pussfeller> you can't go wrong with a nice basic black
[11:08] <whiskers> pussfeller, the color is significant
[11:08] <kkathman> the facts according to Whiskers tho, and they arent facts, only opinions.
[11:08] <pussfeller> Johhny cash wrote a song about it, i know
[11:08] <whiskers> kkathman, they are facts
[11:08] <whiskers> kkathman, i have been there
[11:10] <kkathman> well I take offense at your statements and you blatent insenstivity, and those are the facts :)
[11:10] <whiskers> kkathman, well tell that to someone who gives a damn
[11:11] <whiskers> kkathman, because i sure as hell don't
[11:11] <pussfeller> whiskers do you banned from a lot of chat rooms
[11:12] <bubi> ok whiskers i compiled hdparm and sorry coz it took so long ( family )
[11:12] <NTolerance> yeah no kidding
[11:13] <whiskers> bubi, ok...well keep the hard drive settings for whatever your hard drive device is and keep the dvd settings for whatever your dvd is...and then do hdparm -tT and see if it makes a difference
[11:13] <NTolerance> this sort of crap won't stand in most places on the intarweb
[11:13] <whiskers> pussfeller, i don't give a damn if all the capitalist pigs ban me
[11:13] <NTolerance> hehe
[11:13] <NTolerance> paychecks are awesome, ever get one?
[11:13] <whiskers> NTolerance, don't have any use for that shit
[11:14] <whiskers> NTolerance, just like the monks on the Holy Mountain
[11:14] <NTolerance> how'd you buy your PC? sure it has components produced by corporations
[11:14] <NTolerance> you are feeding the evil menace
[11:14] <NTolerance> capitalism is all your fault
[11:14] <whiskers> NTolerance, well i got a retirement from Teaching
[11:14] <NTolerance> oh nice
[11:14] <NTolerance> so you spread your communist propaganda to kids?
[11:15] <whiskers> NTolerance, you are damn right...but this god-dammed government won't let me speak to my kids for 11 years now
[11:15] <NTolerance> haha
[11:15] <NTolerance> when i was a little kid i'd rather play Super Nintendo than pretend to be little Lenin
[11:15] <whiskers> NTolerance, laugh it up fuzzball...you may be next in line
[11:15] <kkathman> gee I wonder why
[11:15] <pussfeller> heh
[11:16] <NTolerance> next for what?
[11:16] <whiskers> NTolerance, well they may not let you speak to your kids for 11 years either.
[11:16] <NTolerance> i don't have kids
[11:16] <pussfeller> these kind of things do happen quite frequently in america actually
[11:17] <NTolerance> the power of the US government is so far-reaching that it prevents me from speaking to my non-existant children
[11:17] <NTolerance> the horror
[11:17] <pussfeller> the court system is heavily slanted towards females
[11:17] <NTolerance> either way
[11:17] <NTolerance> you stand a better chance if you're not batshit crazy idiot
[11:18] <NTolerance> -a
[11:18] <NTolerance> i hate klaptop
[11:18] <kkathman> lol NT
[11:18] <NTolerance> it's now decided that i have 0% battery power
[11:19] <NTolerance> although i'm plugged in
[11:21] <kkathman> Theres that invasive government again...working through the power lines to give you false information NTolerance !
[11:21] <NTolerance> i know
[11:21] <NTolerance> i opened up the klaptop icon in GIMP and I saw a few pixels which resemble George Bush
[11:22] <NTolerance> they are haxoring my PC
[11:22] <kkathman> yep
[11:22] <kkathman> its just a matter of time now
[11:23] <kkathman> they will secretly download porn to your computer, then come arrest you :)
[11:23] <NTolerance> hey now that'd be cool
[11:23] <kkathman> lol
[11:23] <NTolerance> forget welfare, automated government porn service
[11:29] <kkathman> whole new idea...not food stamps...but porn stamps
[11:31] <NTolerance> hrm
[11:31] <NTolerance> should be able to install it through synaptic
[11:31] <NTolerance> should be easy
[11:32] <blueeel> synaptic ?
[11:32] <NTolerance> yeah
[11:32] <NTolerance> it's a package manager
[11:32] <NTolerance> run this
[11:32] <NTolerance> apt-get install synaptic
[11:32] <NTolerance> errr
[11:33] <NTolerance> sudo apt-get install synaptic
[11:33] <blueeel> ok... one step closer... thanks a lot...
[11:33] <NTolerance> then run it and you can search for packages like superkaramba
[11:33] <NTolerance> or if you want to cut to the chase
[11:33] <NTolerance> you could probably just run
[11:33] <NTolerance> sudo apt-get install superkaramba
[11:33] <NTolerance> yeah that will work too
[11:33] <blueeel> tried that... but it says there no such package...
[11:33] <NTolerance> but you need to have synaptic
[11:33] <NTolerance> hrm
[11:33] <NTolerance> maybe you need to enable some more repositories
[11:34] <NTolerance> do this
[11:34] <NTolerance> sudo kwrite /etc/apt/sources.list
[11:34] <NTolerance> uncomment the universe repositories
[11:34] <NTolerance> and try again
[11:37] <blueeel> hmm... needed to run a sudo apt-get update first...
[11:37] <blueeel> ... and i worked that out myself... hoooray!
[11:38] <blueeel> thanks a lot, NTolerance...
[11:39] <kkathman> smouche!!! howdy there sir!
[11:39] <smouche> brother kkathman, what's cooking?
[11:39] <kkathman> ohh same ol same ol..but doing good :)
[11:39] <kkathman> yerself?
[11:40] <smouche> back to a normal schedule after a week of semi-vacation; not enthused...
[11:40] <kkathman> ahhhh easing back into things I imagine
[11:40] <smouche> but I'll be back in the swing of it in a day or two
[11:40] <kkathman> yeah dont try to get into it too fast :)
[11:40] <smouche> heh heh, no such thing as easing in, where I work
[11:41] <kkathman> lol
[11:44] <NTolerance> sorry, forgot that step blueeel
[11:44] <NTolerance> so you got it installed?
[11:44] <blueeel> NTolerance: yup...
[11:44] <NTolerance> nice
[11:44] <NTolerance> beware though
[11:44] <NTolerance> most of the apps take up a good bit of CPU time even when they're not displayed
[11:45] <blueeel> heh... how do i change the default font in konsole? i can hardly tell a "d" from a "c"...
[11:45] <NTolerance> settings -> font
[11:46] <smouche> kkathman, you installed java, right?  Which package did you use?
[11:46] <NTolerance> i use Bitstream Vera Sans mono under "other"
[11:46] <smouche> heh, that's the only font that looks any good on my system.
[11:46] <kkathman> smouche I did...it was a bit of a chore, and even then It didnt install the JRE
[11:46] <kkathman> but I have the instructions if you want them
[11:47] <smouche> no JRE?  so, does it at least work with Opera?  when I start opera it complains about java being missing - don't know what it wants it for...
[11:47] <kkathman> well I dont have that problem, no
[11:47] <kkathman> but Ive never had it complain
[11:48] <kkathman> smouche: let me send you this stuff and you can read through it
[11:48] <smouche> that's ok, kkathman, let me try to find my original install routine for that; I think I used somebody's shell script, and it worked.
[11:48] <kkathman> ok
[11:48] <blueeel> okay... then here comes my last question (i've googled it a lot): how do i get to play any video at all?
[11:48] <smouche> hopefully I have it buried somewhere in my bookmarks, or on another box.
[11:48] <kkathman> I gotta get back in touch with that guy smouche cuz I gotta get the JRE installed too
[11:49] <blueeel> i've had problems with all the distros and all the players i've tried with... (suse, debian, gentoo, onebase, mandrake, etc...)
[11:50] <smouche> kkathman, is the JRE the same as the "java runtimes" I hear about, or something else?
[11:50] <smouche> blueee1, have you tried xine-ui? or maybe kaboodle?
[11:51] <smouche> mplayer, as a browser plug-in anyway, seems really crappy, on my system anyway.
[11:53] <kkathman> smouche I dunno actually... I was trying to install that Freemind
[11:54] <kkathman> and it came up with 3 dependencies
[11:54] <smouche> kkathman: check out the groovy install script on this page; maybe you could adapt these instructions, at least for your JRE install.  I used this before, and it seemed to work...
[11:54] <smouche> (but check the end of the thread for any updates)
[11:54] <smouche> oops
[11:54] <smouche> forgot the url!
[11:55] <smouche> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=22646
[11:55] <smouche> kkathman, the Freemind wiki has notes on debian installs, don't know how accurate they are for us...
[11:56] <kkathman> I
[11:56] <kkathman> I will check that out
[12:00] <blueeel> smouche: now i've tried both xine-ui and kaboodle... they just crash when i try to play a file...
[12:00] <smouche> just for the hell of it, I'm gonna run that shell script, kkathman, and say no to everything but the java, maybe it'll work (some stuff is messed up with that, gnome-baker and acro-reader in particular, I think)
[12:01] <smouche> blueee1, what about sound apps?  Can you play mp3, etc?  I'm thinking maybe the sound engine is what's crashing your video, but I dont really know...