[12:01] <kay> ah, i see
[12:01] <kay> That's Ok, I read on the site you pay per MB there 
[12:02] <kay> So, it's not a problem of server infrastructure not up to the task or something
[12:02] <kay> That's fine then.... :-)
[12:02] <kay> (Not that I believe I matter#)
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[12:12] <mdke> hi Simira 
[12:12] <mdke> although its evening here :)
[12:12] <zyga> hello
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[12:12] <Simira> mdke: sorry, i forget you're not in au :p
[12:13] <Simira> all others is...
[12:13] <mdke> rub it in
[12:13] <zyga> how is UDU going?
[12:13] <Simira> *impatiently waiting for Tollef to get online*
[12:13] <Simira> mdke: hey, I'm not, ok! I've been alone for two weeks. So just you shut up!
[12:13] <mdke> Simira, *grins*
[12:13] <mdke> Simira, 2 weeks?
[12:13] <Simira> mdke: linuxconf.au and UDU
=== mdke gets out his abacus
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[12:15] <mdke> Simira, married to some high flying ubuntu dude huh?
[12:15] <davidj> Capslock on hoary doesn't work properly for "c" and "e".  I used the bug report tool but never got a response.
[12:15] <davidj> the problem only happens on the console.  How should I report it?
[12:15] <Simira> mdke: not yet. I'm engaged to Tollef (tfheen/Mithrandir)
[12:16] <mdke> Simira, nearly as good
[12:16] <Simira> mdke: yep. The travelling firefox is mine. If you've seen him hanging around Tollef, more or less literally speaking...
[12:17] <zyga> davidj: what's your locale setting/
=== mdke 's head swims
[12:18] <mdke> Simira, oh well, irc isn't a bad way of keeping in touch
[12:18] <davidj> en_US.UTF-8
[12:18] <Simira> mdke: you're single, aren't you?`
[12:18] <mdke> Simira, no
[12:19] <zyga> davidj: does changing the locale to C makes any difference
[12:19] <davidj> The problem appeared to be in /etc/console/boottime.kmap.gz
[12:19] <davidj> zyga: No
[12:19] <Simira> mdke: ok, you've just been married or whatever too long, then :p
[12:20] <davidj> The only fix I've found so far is to edit boottime.kmap and remove the stuff that makes Alt-E a Euro sign.
[12:21] <davidj> zyga: Hang on a sec, please.
[12:21] <mdke> Simira, nah... my g/f lives in another country at the moment
[12:21] <mdke> *catches sight of the topic*
[12:21] <Simira> mdke: I don't understand how you make it...
[12:21] <Simira> mdke: they've not started working yet, anyway :p
[12:22] <mdke> its not great
[12:22] <mdke> or cheap ;)
[12:23] <Simira> I once had a boyfriend in another part of the country.  I'll never leave sight of Tollef that way, I tell you!
[12:24] <davidj> zyga: I've removed the line in boottime.kmap that was causing the problem, makes it a bit difficult to test ;-)
[12:24] <zyga> davidj: I know little of boottime.kmap.gz actaully but since the problem does not appear to happen here I'd be glad do diff our files
[12:24] <zyga> actually even
[12:25] <zyga> which program generates that file?
[12:25] <mdke> Simira, its a work thing
[12:25] <mdke> but its certainly not a good long term strategy, you're right
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[12:26] <davidj> zyga: I've misplaced my notes, I'm not certain.
[12:27] <zyga> davidj: dpkg does not seem to know about it
[12:27] <zyga> davidj: the best I can do is offer my version for you to check
[12:29] <davidj> zyga: OK
[12:30] <zyga> davidj: one moment
[12:30] <Simira> mdz: do you allow those guys eating breakfast for this long? 
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[12:32] <zyga> davidj: www.suxx.pl/boottime.kmap.gz
[12:33] <mdz> Simira: they have 25 more minutes
[12:33] <davidj> zyga: thx, getting it now.
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[12:38] <davidj> zyga: Your file is different from mine.
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[12:39] <davidj> It looks like it's been fixed behind my back ;-)
[12:39] <Simira> mdz: what do they need all that food for, then? :p
[12:40] <zyga> davidj: I'm running breezy
[12:40] <Simira> zyga: how works it?
[12:40] <zyga> davidj: is the difference significantly large
[12:40] <zyga> Simira: breezy? fine but some thing are broken
[12:40] <zyga> ;-)
[12:40] <zyga> (as long as you can call that fine)
[12:40] <davidj> No, the difference is "keycode 18 = +e +E +ecircumflex +Ecircumflex +Control_e" instead
[12:41] <davidj> of "keycode 18 = e"
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[12:43] <zyga> Simira: if you are interested in anything specific feel free to ask
[12:43] <Simira> zyga: just checking the status. I'll be running Breezy on my laptop in short time, I guess
[12:44] <zyga> Simira: amd64 has problems with openoffice2 but I'm not sure that's breezy specific 
[12:44] <zyga> Simira: ndis and gcj are not upgradable at this time
[12:44] <Simira> zyga: I've got this amd64-guy in bed, so that's no problem. I don't run amd64 yet, either
[12:45] <zyga> Simira: it's fine as any other devel version I guess
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[12:52] <mdz> Simira: they need fuel
[12:52] <Simira> it's time for you to send them home soon, mdz. They'll get the fuel they need ;p
=== mdke shakes his head
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[12:56] <Simira> mdke: I'm lonely, and besides torn almost in pieces after falling from a horse earlier today
[12:56] <mdke> gosh
[12:56] <mdke> Simira, everything in one piece?
[12:57] <zyga> night everyone
[12:57] <Simira> mdke: mostly. Possibly a lesser concussion, and my back looks like something ran over it. I'm ok now, but I won't bet on being able to get out of bed tomorrow.
[12:58] <mdke> Simira, staying in bed sounds like a good idea
[12:58] <Simira> I've noone here to pick dirt out of all the scratches, though...
[12:58] <mdke> well i'm sure your bf is sorry he's missing that
[12:58] <Simira> mdke: I'll hit bed as soon as Tollef has come online and we've had a short chat
[12:58] <mdke> :/
[12:59] <mdke> Simira, did you see a doctor?
[12:59] <Simira> mdke: nope. I'm taking it easy a couple of days anyway. No need to pay someone to tell me.
[01:00] <mdke> k
[01:00] <mdke> Simira, what country are you in? just curious
[01:02] <Simira> mdke: Norway
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[01:08] <dilinger> mjg59: heh, nice shirt
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[01:12] <Simira> where's Tollef? He's awfully late today
[01:13] <mdke> *grins*
[01:13] <Simira> hey, I'd like to (try, at least) go to bed myself at some point...
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[01:15] <IFR> HI, all checking to see if anyone's using fuse successfully with hoary?
[01:16] <Kamion> Simira: he said he was off into town this morning with Fabio to talk to some folks about virtualisation; I don't know if he's actually left for that yet
[01:19] <Simira> oh, great...
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[01:21] <Simira> Kamion: well, tell him I went to bed, a bit offended for having waited for him this late without him showing up... He knows I'm usually waiting!
[01:23] <Kamion> oops, I guess I got Tollef into trouble ...
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[01:33] <mdz> Kamion: Tollef got Tollef into trouble ;-)
[01:33] <daniels> heh
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[01:35] <jbailey> My eyes are dim, I cannot see, I have not got my specs with me...
=== JaneW hands jabiley some specs
[01:35] <jsgotangco> need redbull now
[01:35] <JaneW> they are still in draft, please progress
[01:36] <jsgotangco> JaneW, what does it mean when the post-it notes have check marks
[01:37] <JaneW> jst: that we scheduled them for today
[01:37] <JaneW> jsg I mean
[01:37] <JaneW> jsg: I was a way to reduce the scheduling time last night, and to show mgmt what had been put in already
[01:37] <jsgotangco> right ok that means i have a lot of time drafting the spec and have it edited
[01:38] <jsgotangco> thanks
[01:38] <JaneW> jsg: have a red bull with a side order of metos?
[01:38] <JaneW> mentos
[01:38] <jsgotangco> sure want to start a mentos fight?
=== JaneW slaps self - wake up and type PROPERLY
[01:38] <hypatia> was I the only person craving some nice fresh fruit on Monday? ;)
[01:39] <jsgotangco> no fruits just mentos
[01:40] <hypatia> There's no point craving mentos when they're there for the taking.
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[01:42] <JaneW> hi cc
[01:42] <cc> hi JaneW 
[01:42] <JaneW> cc: did I get your msg across ok?
[01:43] <cc> JaneW: yes; and i've got your schedule on the door already
[01:43] <JaneW> cc: thanks, but I mean did I convey your spec msg adequately
[01:43] <jsgotangco> at the back of the redbull can it said Usage: 2 Cans Max Daily
[01:43] <cc> JaneW: yeah, and if folk rock up here, SpecProcess witll be good for them
[01:44] <tseng> jsgotangco: they should put that on Bawls
[01:44] <daniels> cc: hey dude
[01:44] <cc> hi daniels 
[01:44] <cc> daniels: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/XorgAutoconfiguration is ready? or still drafting?
[01:45] <daniels> cc: dumped XEyeCandy into your queue -- hope it's OK
[01:45] <daniels> just looking at XorgAutoconfiguration now
[01:45] <cc> sure thing, its always okay. 
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[01:47] <daniels> cc: xorgautoconfiguration is all yours :)
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[01:49] <JaneW> mentos madness starts again
[01:55] <dilinger> ah, beanbag <3
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[01:58] <zul> hey
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[02:11] <novatux> hi, i downloaded a many files from ubuntu repositories and now i want to install this packages in another machine, how i can skip de gpg signed, the synaptic try to download from internet and no from my local repositorie
[02:11] <zul> is it friday in sydney?
[02:12] <JaneW> so who is going to be first to upload their UDU photos? I made a new heading on the warthogs photo page...
[02:12] <novatux> in ubuntu channel say, go to ubuntu-devel ;)
[02:12] <JaneW> zul: yes
[02:12] <zul> damn the week has gone by quick
[02:12] <zul> ...its be lonely on #ubuntu-kernel :)
[02:13] <daniels> JaneW: why don't you be the first? :)
[02:13] <daniels> JaneW: set the pace!
[02:13] <JaneW> daniels: I'd love to but I nuked the USB interface on my camera, so need a card reader to get pics off the camera - got one?
[02:13] <daniels> oops ...
[02:14] <JaneW> *nod*
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[02:14] <daniels> mjg59 has a CF adaptor floating around, but I left my card reader at home
[02:14] <JaneW> I should just get a new (better camera) anyway
[02:14] <JaneW> SD card
[02:14] <daniels> i have SD, but it's the one thing on my laptop that's unsupported
[02:14] <JaneW> we have an HP laptop back home with a built in card reader
[02:15] <JaneW> daniels: I'd love to lnow what I did, but it seems I furkled the firmware or something
[02:15] <cc> JaneW: whats the warthogs photo page?
[02:15] <JaneW> the canonical wiki's page with links to conference photos etc
[02:16] <zul> ah so it aint public
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[02:16] <JaneW> nope
[02:16] <AndyFitz> anyone using breezy ?
[02:16] <tseng> zul: top secret crack
[02:16] <zul> tseng: :P
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[02:17] <zul> mmmm...crack pipes..
[02:17] <d3vic3> tseng, more like G14 classified 
[02:17] <syn-ack> Who is the maintainer of libaspell?
[02:17] <daniels> JaneW: i'd love to know what furkling is
[02:18] <ogra> cc, any reason why http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/GraphicalPartitioningTool went back into juanje's queue instead of being a edited spec ?
[02:18] <d3vic3> hehehe
[02:18] <syn-ack> I thought I would let them know that there was a bug in it for breezy and I went ahead and recompiled a fixed .deb for it.. went ahead and submitted to the bugzilla.
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[02:18] <tseng> AndyFitz: yes
[02:19] <cc> ogra: because i'm having to deal with simon whom isn't exactly doing a 100% tech review and occasionally playing with the process. can you please move the queue physically (post-it notes)? i've made it an editedspec
[02:21] <AndyFitz> tseng,    yeah but that doesn't help cause you can't update ubuntu-artwork and check it out while on this connection  :-P
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[02:21] <jbailey> Keybuk!!!!
[02:21] <tseng> AndyFitz: i cant? :P
[02:21] <elmo> jbailey!!!!!
[02:21] <tseng> how big is it
[02:21] <Keybuk> jbailey!!!
[02:21] <zul> hey jbailey and Keybuk 
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[02:21] <elmo> tsenf: dude, do not start downloading debs
[02:21] <tseng> we can move it on my camera
[02:21] <Keybuk> tseng: <--------->  (* not to scale)
=== jbailey waves at elmo
[02:21] <elmo> I will throw stuff at you
[02:22] <jbailey> I appear to be in the line of fire.
=== jbailey backs away slowly.
[02:22] <tseng> AndyFitz: do you have a deb on your laptop?
[02:22] <d3vic3> jbailey, i know the feeling 
[02:23] <d3vic3> jbailey: next thing you know, you have to duck
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[02:25] <syn-ack> heyas Pizbit.
[02:25] <Pizbit> Heyyas
[02:25] <Pizbit> syn-ack: There is nothing worse than flatmates who only want to pay 5c/year on internet:)
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[02:26] <syn-ack> heh
[02:26] <AndyFitz> tseng,  nope  jdub made the deb
[02:26] <AndyFitz> tseng, my 4rtw0rk w3s t3h st0l3n...
[02:27] <d3vic3> O.O
[02:27] <Pizbit> syn-ack: How's it going?
[02:27] <JaneW> daniels: furkle means fiddle - but usually break in the process
[02:28] <cmj> eish taken 
[02:28] <syn-ack> Pizbit: Not too bad, just did a rebuild of a package and I thought I would let these fine gents know of it. :)
[02:28] <Pizbit> syn-ack: *grin* Which package(s) are you toying with?
[02:29] <syn-ack> Pizbit: libaspell15 in Breezy.
[02:29] <syn-ack> Pizbit: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10272
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=== Pizbit nods.
[02:30] <ogra> cc, thanks :)
[02:31] <cc> ogra: physically moved?
[02:31] <tseng> AndyFitz: i can get it from jdub
[02:31] <cc> thanks
[02:31] <tseng> AndyFitz: where is he?
[02:31] <ogra> cc, yes ;)
[02:32] <daniels> jane	ah
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[02:35] <AndyFitz> tseng,  no idea bro.  but the dude upped it last night apparently
[02:35] <pitti> carlos: ?
[02:35] <Burgundavia> can I canonical employee tell the docteam what is on -->http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDocImports
[02:35] <seb128> syn-ack, that's your bug ?
[02:37] <syn-ack> seb128: There was a symbols error with libaspell15... a rebuild fixed it... a.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10272
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[02:37] <carlos> pitti: ?
[02:37] <syn-ack> seb128: ltns, how goes it, btw?
[02:40] <carlos> Burgundavia: nothing yet
[02:40] <carlos> Burgundavia: I'm answering the email about that issue
[02:40] <pitti> carlos: can you please review http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/LanguagePackRoadmap and put it into SimonSharwoodQueue if you are satisfied?
[02:40] <Burgundavia> carlos, thnaks
[02:40] <carlos> pitti: sure
[02:42] <jdub> tseng, AndyFitz: it's not up yet
[02:42] <tseng> jdub: ARE WE THERE YET?
[02:42] <ajmitch_> jdub: but we need the bling
[02:43] <tseng> jdub: sneakernet
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[02:47] <fabbione> doko: ping?
[02:48] <seb128> syn-ack, sending a deb file is useless for this, we do sources upload and maintainers know how to rebuild a package
[02:48] <seb128> and there is several dups of this bug
[02:48] <syn-ack> Ah, well. Sorry to have sent it then. :/
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[02:50] <syn-ack> seb128: I wasnt trying to imply that you didnt know how build a package, was mearly trying to help.
[02:50] <fabbione> Kamion: i am in forum...
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[02:50] <seb128> syn-ack, no problem, thanks for the efforts
[02:50] <seb128> syn-ack, it'll probably be fixed soon
[02:53] <fabbione> can somebody ping Kamion please?
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[03:08] <daniels> firefox BITES.
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[03:08] <dilinger> daniels: yep.  http://weblog.dividedsky.net/~dilinger/index.php?p=27
[03:09] <dilinger> wow, i really need to nuke all that comment spam
[03:13] <tseng> dilinger: wordpress 1.5 has some built in stuff
[03:13] <tseng> word blacklists, dnsbl
[03:14] <dilinger> tseng: yea, i'm still running 1.2 (i didn't even install it, i was lazy.  i just whined, and someone else installed it and gave me a shell)
[03:22] <carlos> pitti: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/LanguagePackRoadmap?action=diff do you agree with the changes?
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[03:22] <pitti> carlos: later, I'm in a BoF
[03:26] <carlos> pitti: ok
[03:29] <cc> carlos: Open``Office please (escape wiki names)
[03:29] <carlos> cc: ok, not too used to the Wiki, sorry
[03:30] <cc> carlos: no worries
[03:30] <carlos> cc: I was thinking on move it into simon's queue but if you are reading it now... should I do it?
[03:32] <cc> carlos: read already, move it over to him
[03:32] <carlos> ok
[03:32] <carlos> cc: thanks
[03:32] <cc> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/TranslationProcess is this a braindump or a draft spec?
[03:34] <mike_douglas> what is the correct way to compress a changelog when building a debian/ubuntu package?
[03:34] <jbailey> I think dh_docs just does it.
[03:35] <carlos> cc: It's a brain dump, I think we need to review it a bit before moving it into your queue, but more or less the content is there
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[03:35] <cc> carlos: ok, review review then i guess
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[03:39] <pitti> carlos: fine for me
[03:40] <pitti> carlos: please put it into Simom's queue
[03:45] <JaneW> Andreas Mueller
[03:45] <smurfix> doko: ping
[03:45] <tseng> JaneW: amu.
[03:45] <fabbione> elmo: ?
[03:45] <elmo> fabbione: meh
[03:46] <fabbione> elmo: we are in forum :)
[03:46] <elmo> meh
[03:46] <mvo> has anyone seen Kamion?
[03:46] <fabbione> PimpleBackaupSolution
[03:46] <fabbione> mvo: he just left forum 5 minutes ago
[03:46] <jsgotangco> pimple?
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[03:48] <pitti> cc: TranslationProcess was just rediscussed by Adi and me; now it's a DraftSpec, Adi will review it again (I did the typing), then she will assign it to you
[03:49] <cc> pitti: ok.
[03:49] <jsgotangco> pitti, ok with you if i add some stuff on PDASupport?
[03:49] <pitti> jsgotangco: by all means :-)
[03:50] <tfheen> jdub: aren't you supposed to be in VO now?
[03:50] <pitti> daniels: sublime 2 for PrintingRoadmap?
[03:51] <daniels> pitti: on my way
[03:51] <pitti> cool
[03:51] <jbailey> lamont_r: ping?
[03:55] <lamont_r> jbailey: sup?
[03:55] <jbailey> lamont_r: The changelog for MailRoadmap says that sabdfl gave you feedback in person.
[03:56] <jbailey> lamont_r: Wondering if you'd care to share. =)
[03:56] <lamont_r> jbailey: where are you?
[03:56] <infinity> VibeOut
[03:56] <jbailey> Vibeout
[03:56] <daniels> vibeOut
=== lamont_r wanders
[03:56] <infinity> WIBEOUT!!
=== jbailey starts drumming.
[03:57] <infinity> Has anyone seeen AndyFitz in the last two hours?
[03:58] <tfheen> we should equip everybody with trackers
[03:58] <dholbach> infinity: yes, he's in "global"
[03:58] <infinity> That would be helpful.
[03:58] <infinity> dholbach : Ahh, cool.  I'll wander down in a bit, then.
[03:58] <infinity> dholbach : Tell him not to go far. :)
[03:58] <thom> rfid tags in the namebadges
[03:59] <dholbach> infinity: right
[03:59] <hypatia> thom: in the not too distant future, you can just use passports.
[03:59] <tfheen> hypatia: not in Real Countries.
[03:59] <hypatia> thfeen: meaning which countries?
[04:00] <tfheen> .no for instance.
[04:01] <maswan> elmo: saw my msg?
[04:01] <maswan> elmo: if you're still around that is
[04:02] <tfheen> maswan: he's in a writeup bof
[04:02] <maswan> tfheen: ok
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[04:05] <Riddell> jdub: is pia on IRC?
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[04:07] <carlos> cc: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/OpenOfficeLocalisation <- If you could take a look at it... Thanks
[04:09] <jdub> Riddell: as greebo sometimes
[04:10] <jdub> tfheen: i'm sick of moving around, just working on drafting atm
[04:10] <daniels> jdub: PROPRIETARY DRIVERS
[04:10] <jdub> oh
[04:10] <jdub> that's different then
[04:10] <Riddell> poke sladen 
[04:11] <jdub> crap, i thought that was next session
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[04:15] <tfheen> jdub: you're going to hold the bof or not?
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[04:19] <pitti> mvo: can you please review AutomatedTesting?
[04:23] <ajmitch_> pitti: seen mdz's feedback on ProactiveSecurityRoadmap?
=== tseng looks
[04:28] <carlos> cc: around?
[04:28] <cc> carlos: yes; just read OOo Localisation
[04:28] <carlos> cc: thanks
[04:29] <mvo> pitti: yes
[04:29] <carlos> cc: What am I supposed to do with http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/RosettaOneDotZero ? it's in my queue and with the Edited flag
[04:29] <cc> carlos: go get it approved. then remove it from your queue.
[04:29] <pitti> ajmitch_: not yet, looking at it in a minute
[04:30] <cc> carlos: alos, remove it from your queue and go get it approved. either works
[04:30] <carlos> cc: ok, so it does not means we need to change anything from its contents, right?
[04:31] <cc> carlos: nope.
[04:31] <cc> carlos: read ?action=info
[04:31] <carlos> ok, thanks
[04:32] <cc> jbailey: jill has a wife? " Jill wants to make her pictures on her Ubuntu computer available to her wife's Windows machine."
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[04:33] <thom> cc: seems reasonable to me
[04:33] <thom> this _is_ the 21st century
[04:33] <cc> thom: yes, agreed...
[04:33] <mdz> fabbione: on ClusterFilesystems, when you say that the userland is a work in progress, do you mean upstream or the packaging?
[04:34] <mdz> fabbione: will we have GFS userland for breezy?
[04:34] <fabbione> i mean the packaging
[04:34] <fabbione> i have almost done with it
[04:34] <fabbione> so yes.. it will be in breezy
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[04:35] <dholbach> mdz, ogra: added the script and the points about notifying the maintainers on ExpandingUniverse
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[04:35] <schweeb> o_O
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[04:36] <dholbach> mdz, ogra: added the script and the points about notifying the maintainers on ExpandingUniverse
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[04:37] <pitti> ajmitch_: could you come to global (or I come to you) to discuss ProactiveSecurityRoadmap?
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[04:38] <ajmitch_> alright, I'll come down from VO
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[04:39] <smurfix> mako: ping
[04:39] <pitti> ajmitch_: I'm going to Forum now
[04:39] <ajmitch_> ok
[04:39] <mdz> dholbach: thanks
[04:39] <dholbach> mdz: de rien
[04:40] <seb128> ogra, where are you sitting ?
[04:41] <seb128> cc, LaunchpadIntegration updated
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[04:42] <mako> smurfix: hey dude
[04:42] <fabbione> mdz : did you get my msg before the global Kline?
[04:42] <mako> smurfix: do we have a bof?
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[04:48] <thom> jbailey: are you jeff.bailey@canonical?
[04:48] <elmo> thom == janew?
[04:48] <thom> elmo: hush, you :P
[04:49] <elmo> of course he's jeff.bailey@; everyone has first.last
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[04:55] <chmj> smurfix, ping 
[04:56] <smurfix> mako: no BOF - I just want to write up the notes we do have into a reasonable spec
[04:57] <smurfix> mako: right now it's still just a rough outline, and starting to longhand it with missing data isn't how I like to work ;-)
[04:58] <chmj> smurfix, MentoringCommunity?
[04:58] <smurfix> mako: NB: Who's "the" person to approve LoCoTeamProcess?
[04:58] <smurfix> chmj: yeah
[04:59] <smurfix> chmj: (not with mako though)
[04:59] <smurfix> chmj: but JeffElkner is nowhere to be found :-/
[04:59] <chmj> I'm in global 
[04:59] <smurfix> chmj: so am I ;-)
[05:00] <whiprush> anyone seen jdub?
[05:00] <tseng> yes.
[05:00] <tseng> he just left vtfo
=== metallikop is now known as kop|gone
[05:01] <JaneW> elmo: huh?
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[05:01] <whiprush> tseng: vtfo?
[05:01] <tseng> whiprush: vibe the fuck out.
[05:01] <whiprush> k
[05:02] <chmj> heh
[05:02] <ajmitch_> jeff elkner is in forum
[05:02] <pitti> Keybuk: got a minute?
[05:03] <Keybuk> pitti: sure
[05:03] <pitti> Keybuk: where are you?
[05:03] <Keybuk> vibe out
[05:03] <pitti> okay, coming up
[05:03] <JaneW> anyone seen ddaa?
[05:04] <thom> JaneW: sublime 1
[05:04] <tseng> ajmitch_: um
[05:04] <JaneW> thom: k, thanks. He ok now?
[05:04] <tseng> "This helps to reduce the number of security updates we have to do after a release, and confines the impact of actual vulnerabilities to a minimum."
[05:04] <tseng> ajmitch_: thats evil
[05:04] <ajmitch_> blame pitti, he's just going up to VO
[05:05] <tseng> ajmitch_: we still have to fix every CAN regardless
[05:05] <thom> JaneW: seems angry still
[05:05] <ajmitch_> of course, but it makes it a bit less urgent
[05:05] <tseng> can I change it? im dying inside
=== JaneW feels bad...
[05:05] <ajmitch_> let me save my edits
[05:05] <ajmitch_> talk to pitti, and then edit away
[05:06] <tseng> he is busy with scott
[05:06] <ajmitch_> ok
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[05:07] <ajmitch_> jbailey: is glibc using nptl on amd64?
[05:08] <jbailey> ajmitch: Yes, since Hoary
[05:08] <tfheen> jbailey: no, since warty.
[05:08] <ajmitch_> ok
[05:08] <jbailey> eh?
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[05:09] <jbailey> Oh, right.
[05:09] <tfheen> amd64 glibc has been nptl the whole way through
[05:09] <tfheen> unless you count the pre-biarch stuff from the early stone age
[05:11] <fabbione> doko: i did add some extra details to SmallBusinessServer on mdz request, can you please review them?
[05:11] <doko> fabbione: still in Forum?
[05:12] <fabbione> doko: yes
[05:12] <fabbione> doko: heading out for a fast smoke :)
[05:12] <doko> '##
[05:12] <doko> #
[05:13] <thom> JaneW: i think he's angry with humanity rather than just because of you
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[05:17] <tseng> Riddell: i just noticed the 45+ channels on your irc client
[05:17] <tseng> Riddell: hardcore.
[05:18] <Riddell> tseng: it actually goes up to 69, but nothing interesting has happened in them today
[05:18] <ajmitch_> tseng: editing proactive again..
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[05:18] <tseng> ajmitch_: alright.
[05:19] <dilinger> Riddell: holy shit, and i thought i was bad w/ my 25
[05:19] <|QuaD-> Riddell: 69 channels? are you able to monitor them all?
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[05:20] <|QuaD-> what client can do that efficiently?
[05:20] <lamont_r> Riddell: which client?
[05:20] <thom> |QuaD-: irssi copes with that quite happily
[05:20] <tseng> i often have > 20, but i am seriously OCD about having lit channels
[05:20] <schweeb> irssi can undoubtedly handle it. irssi rules.
[05:20] <tseng> even for join/part
[05:20] <schweeb> tseng: same here
[05:20] <|QuaD-> thom: yeah i know irssi can handle it
[05:20] <tseng> i cant keep myself from switching to the window.
[05:21] <tseng> :(
[05:21] <thom> tseng: same
=== thom is up to 55 windows, but probably only 20 or so channels
[05:21] <thom> hrm, maybe 30
[05:21] <|QuaD-> thom: how do you know which window is which
[05:21] <tfheen> tseng: don't show activity for join, nick, leave and so.
[05:21] <tseng> i used to put more than one channel in one window
[05:21] <bob2> 336 here.
[05:21] <schweeb> tseng: this is why I run multiple irssis in multiple screen sessions... can ignore certain networks when its convenient
[05:21] <bob2> er, 376
[05:21] <tseng> tfheen: great idea
[05:21] <Riddell> lamont_r: irssi
[05:22] <tfheen> I'm usually on 20-ish channels.  before my home system crashed due to a bad disk, I was up to ~60 windows.
[05:22] <tseng> tfheen: know the command for that offhand?
[05:22] <Riddell> |QuaD-: a lot of them are old /msg conversations that I could probably close
[05:22] <dilinger> i'm about to about 35 windows, and xchat's handling of it all is utter crap
[05:22] <|QuaD-> Riddell: ahhhh, ok
[05:22] <dilinger> s/about/up/
[05:22] <tfheen> tseng: /set activity_hide_level JOINS PARTS QUITS MODES NICKS
[05:22] <tseng> tfheen: rock on dude, thanks!
[05:23] <tfheen> adjust as applicable, obviously.
[05:23] <|QuaD-> tfheen: how do i set that in the config?
[05:23] <tseng> |QuaD-: run /save after
[05:23] <|QuaD-> tseng: nice
[05:23] <tseng> or.. never exit your client
[05:23] <|QuaD-> can someone cahnge their nick :)
[05:24] <schweeb> tfheen: wow, you rule
[05:24] <schweeb> guess SOMEONE reads the irssi docs
[05:24] <schweeb> lol
[05:25] <tfheen> and then /save
[05:25] <tfheen> schweeb: irssi docs?  Where?
[05:25] <mdz> fabbione: yes, I received your message
[05:25] <schweeb> heh
[05:25] <fabbione> mdz: ok thanks
[05:25] <tseng> hah /help 4 life
[05:25] <tfheen> |QuaD-: just type it on the command line.
[05:25] <|QuaD-> tfheen: i did :)
[05:25] <tfheen> schweeb: it's probably easier to just read the source.
[05:26] <schweeb> rofl
[05:27] <schweeb> alright, it's about time for me to head to sleep
[05:27] <schweeb> start me new job tomorrow
[05:28] <|QuaD-> schweeb: i start in june... my first real job
[05:28] <tseng> |QuaD-: my appologies
[05:28] <daniels> the discussion above about open windows sucked
[05:28] <daniels> someone in this channel has >370 open windows
[05:28] <tfheen> daniels: howso?
[05:28] <daniels> in irssi
[05:28] <Kamion> pitti: you added EditedSpecification to ProactiveSecurityRoadmap, but it is also BrainDump; it was sent back to you guys by the reviewer
[05:28] <tseng> daniels: you face sucks.
[05:28] <|QuaD-> tseng: heh, not your fault... graduated and i need to make a living, at least i get to do some programming 
[05:28] <schweeb> |QuaD-: as in first non-part time job, or first job in the industry
[05:29] <|QuaD-> schweeb: first job in industry
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[05:29] <Kamion> pitti: I've removed EditedSpecification for now
[05:30] <|QuaD-> schweeb: where you working
[05:30] <schweeb> |QuaD-: would have liked to have gotten a degree before I started this job, but the money is too tempting :)
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[05:30] <tseng> |QuaD-: he switches tapes
[05:30] <schweeb> |QuaD-: EDS
[05:30] <tseng> |QuaD-: he's a backup "admin"
[05:31] <|QuaD-> haha, nice
[05:31] <schweeb> hey, make fun all you want
[05:31] <schweeb> the pay is good enough I can't complain
[05:31] <|QuaD-> i wanted a network admin/security job at a bank (they would train me and stuff) but the money was better at my job
[05:31] <pitti> Kamion: I noticed, we just updated the page again; I send it to cc now
[05:31] <schweeb> and it gets my food in the door further
[05:31] <cc> pitti: err? send what? i can look at it now
[05:31] <schweeb> s/food/foot/
[05:31] <pitti> cc: in a minute
[05:32] <|QuaD-> tseng: out of curiosity what do you do for a living
[05:32] <Kamion> pitti: ok, thanks
[05:32] <pitti> cc: it's updated now (had to resolve some conflicts); ProactiveSecurityRoadmap
[05:32] <tseng> |QuaD-: programming/sysadmin/networking ?
[05:32] <|QuaD-> tseng: ahh nice. I might get to use mono at my job :)
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[05:33] <|QuaD-> (tseng, hence the reason i bug you soo often, i want to familiarize myself with it :) i don't mean to be a pain)
[05:34] <tfheen> jbailey: ping?
[05:34] <tfheen> jbailey: we have two braindumps to write up, it seems..
[05:34] <cc> pitti: if it reads sanely, do i re-bump it to EditedSpec?
[05:35] <cc> and place it in Kamion's queue?
[05:35] <schweeb> |QuaD-: mono rocks.  I did sysadmin/networking for the last 2 years, but backup admin pays mad cash
[05:35] <tseng> lunchtime.
[05:35] <pitti> cc: yeah; however, I think this is rather mdz-ish
[05:35] <tseng> lets roll dudes
[05:35] <schweeb> tseng: I trust you're taking care of properly abusing whip
[05:35] <pitti> cc: although I'd appreciate a review from Kamion, too
[05:35] <cc> pitti: ok.
[05:35] <cc> pitti: i'll put it in his queue
[05:35] <|QuaD-> schweeb: i use mono when i can here, is an EE they make me use c most of the time, but i have gotten a good amount of experience
[05:35] <pitti> cc: thanks
[05:36] <|QuaD-> schweeb: i use vs.net for most of my development because back when i started to learn c# i was learning asp.net (not really c# soo much) and i like to take the easy way out and use the layout editors.... but then i started using mono more and more
[05:36] <tfheen> mdz: could you please add stuff to people's queues if the specs are not approved?
[05:37] <tfheen> mdz: and not just bump them back to braindump without any kind of notification.
[05:38] <|QuaD-> schweeb: now that swf is implemented in mono (i haven't tried it out yet, trying to learn c#) i can't see my future employer carrying whether or not i use mono or vs.net, as long as i get the job done and have it run on windows (and linux too [and mac, though i don't know anything about ppc mono] )
[05:40] <schweeb> |QuaD-: if you only have to target mono, it doesn't really matter anyways
[05:40] <Riddell> |QuaD-: swf being flash?
[05:40] <schweeb> Riddell: swf = system.windows.forms
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[05:40] <|QuaD-> Riddell: lol, swf beeing system.windows.forms
[05:40] <|QuaD-> schweeb: target mono?
[05:40] <schweeb> Riddell: .NET's GUI stuff
[05:40] <Riddell> ah, how confusing
[05:40] <schweeb> |QuaD-: i.e. not .NET
[05:40] <Riddell> there should be an acronym registry to prevent clashes
[05:40] <schweeb> the mono framework rather than .NET
[05:41] <schweeb> GTK#, etc..
[05:41] <|QuaD-> schweeb: i need to use the .net framework, but that shouldn't be a problem
[05:41] <|QuaD-> schweeb: i am trying to teach myself gtk#, its not that easy :(
[05:41] <schweeb> is there even .NET for OSX?
[05:41] <schweeb> |QuaD-: glade
[05:41] <Amaranth> schweeb: mono
[05:41] <|QuaD-> not enough examples/documentation (esp cuz i don't know regular gtk)
[05:41] <schweeb> Amaranth: I meant real .NET :)
[05:42] <|QuaD-> schweeb: i am trying not to use that yet, cuz i want to learn  the hard way, so i always no how
[05:42] <Amaranth> MS .NET Framework (.NET is many things) is Windows only
[05:42] <schweeb> that's what I figured
[05:43] <|QuaD-> schweeb: we will see what happens. the companies goal is maximum portability
[05:44] <schweeb> |QuaD-: which would mean you should target the mono/GTK# framework IMO :)
[05:45] <|QuaD-> schweeb: yeah, when we go there, i am going to sit down and talk to them about it. basically they got a huge contract and we are researching the best solution. the only thing is, the software product has to get tested by the clients (like conedison, a big utility company in nyc, and they require regular .net)
[05:45] <schweeb> ah
[05:48] <JanC> GTK# has no GUI/code-editor like SWF has in VS.NET & in SharpDevelop
[05:48] <|QuaD-> JanC: right, but i am trying to avoid anything to help me, i like learning the hard way :)
[05:48] <|QuaD-> i am excited about my job :)
[05:48] <schweeb> hopefully MonoDevelop improves a lot soon... and Stetic should help too
[05:49] <|QuaD-> schweeb: yeah... if tseng wasn't so lazy and got the next version of mono in there i could start learning more! (just kidding tseng, if you are reading this, i appreciate your work)
[05:49] <JanC> I constantly swap between the graphical view & the code view
[05:50] <JanC> changing code --> immediate changes in the graphical editor and vice versa
[05:51] <|QuaD-> JanC: i use glade to show me what is available when i use gtk# cuz i don't know gtk that well
[05:52] <|QuaD-> but i don't use it to help me code (not even sure if thats possible)
[05:53] <JanC> I think there must be a way to use .glade files at runtime in GTK# ?
[05:54] <|QuaD-> JanC: no idea, i don't want to be lazy yet though, so i don't learn
[05:54] <schweeb> JanC: yes, there is Glade#
[05:56] <|QuaD-> schweeb: my goal is is to actually start some useful gtk# or swf OSS project, i just can't think of one to start :(
[05:56] <schweeb> |QuaD-: good LDAP browser/editor
[05:56] <schweeb> :)
=== metallikop is now known as kop|gone
[05:57] <|QuaD-> schweeb: ldap as in addresses? or can it be used for other stuff too
[05:57] <schweeb> bunches of other stuff
[05:57] <|QuaD-> schweeb: like what?
[05:57] <JanC> it's a protocol to query hierarchical databases
[05:58] <|QuaD-> schweeb: i am planning on doing a sync program for my cellphone, but thats easy and 3/4 done
[05:58] <schweeb> you can store just about anything in LDAP
[05:58] <|QuaD-> hmmm, interesting
[05:58] <|QuaD-> i need to learn more about it :)
[05:58] <schweeb> it's quite useful for authentication
[05:58] <schweeb> and virtual users
[05:58] <|QuaD-> interesting
[05:59] <|QuaD-> well, it sounds like a good project, only problem is 1. i have no remote server to play with it on 2. i really don't have a need for something like that
[05:59] <schweeb> heh
[05:59] <schweeb> apt-get install slapd :)\
[06:00] <|QuaD-> schweeb: but i don't really have a use for it either
[06:00] <schweeb> okay, off to bed I go
[06:00] <schweeb> night
[06:00] <|QuaD-> schweeb: night :)
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[06:21] <Safari_Al> mike_douglas, any luck with the getupdates stuff? 
[06:22] <mike_douglas> Safari_Al: ya, works great. About to do a full lab using it
[06:22] <Safari_Al> mike_douglas, nice one!  Have you needed to modify anything in the core scripts?
[06:23] <mike_douglas> Safari_Al: no, most of my time has been spent on the changesets
[06:23] <Safari_Al> yes.  They do most of the work. 
[06:23] <Safari_Al> It'd actually be cool to have a changeset tips & tricks repository online
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[06:23] <Safari_Al> Let me start that right now!
[06:24] <mike_douglas> ya, that would be great
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[06:26] <Safari_Al> mike_douglas, http://dev.openmonkey.com/getupdates/discussion/tips
[06:27] <Safari_Al> mike_douglas, I'll add some of my own stuff when I have finished writing this essay for uni.  Feel free to add your own there :)
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[06:29] <mike_douglas> cool, on the weekend I'll hopefully get out a man page for it. Then I can tackle packaging
[06:30] <Safari_Al> mike_douglas, SWEET.  That's a really important thing that needs to be done to make it easier for people to use.
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[06:46] <mdz> tfheen: I am sending email for any spec that needs changes
[06:47] <tfheen> mdz: email sucks when we're already using the wiki for workflow.
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[06:47] <seb128> jdub, around ?
[06:47] <jdub> seb128: yo
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[06:52] <fabbione> Kamion: there are some comments on Installer Volume Manager.. do you want me to work on them?
[06:54] <tfheen> does the wiki support strikethrough?
[06:55] <mdz> tfheen: the wiki workflow sucks ;-)
[06:55] <tfheen> mdz: not really.
[06:55] <tfheen> mdz: it sucks significantly less than email.
[06:57] <mdz> asynchronous notification is better than having people poll pages which search every page in the wiki for keywords
[06:57] <mdz> but it's no problem to queue things in addition to emailing
[06:57] <tfheen> mdz: thanks.  I need to poll email so it doesn't make much sense for me.
[06:58] <tfheen> mdz: do you prefer us to leave the reviewer comments in place or should we remove it?
[06:58] <tfheen> (after it has been adressed, naturally)
[06:59] <mdz> tfheen: please remove them after they have been addressed
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[07:01] <jsgotangco> dumb question how do i put my draft in queue?
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[07:01] <jdub> jsgotangco: mention 'ColinCharlesQueue' or 'SimonSharwoodQueue' in your status field
[07:01] <thom> jsgotangco: add ColinCharlesQueue or SimonSharwoodQueue
[07:01] <tfheen> cc: when we have editedspec -> braindump and we've addressed the issues, should it go through you or just bump back to editedspec?
[07:01] <jsgotangco> ok thanks
[07:02] <cc> tfheen: back to us, then we'll move it up if required
[07:02] <tfheen> cc: ack
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[07:09] <cc> tfheen: i'll put it in mdz's queue now
[07:09] <thom> `anthony: care to have a look at http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/Firewalls please?
[07:10] <tfheen> cc: thanks
[07:10] <jsgotangco> amu, ping?
[07:10] <ogra> cc, http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareDatabaseRoadmap re-edited after review, please have a look (moved it to your queue )
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[07:16] <cc> ogra: yes, it looks okay
[07:16] <amu> jsgotangco: jep? 
[07:16] <jsgotangco> amu, put the dial-up support on queue ok with you?
[07:17] <jsgotangco> amu, i just put it on queu
[07:17] <amu> jsgotangco: efine wieth me, date in the late evening or tomorrow
[07:17] <jsgotangco> amu, ok
[07:22] <dholbach> whiprush: around?
[07:23] <whiprush> yeah
[07:23] <whiprush> I have your lighter
[07:23] <whiprush> coming down
[07:23] <whiprush> smoker's bof?
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[07:24] <dholbach> whiprush: you took the words our my mouth
[07:24] <thom> slackers :P
[07:25] <tseng> smoking is for suckers.
[07:25] <infinity> Only half the time, the other half involves blowing.
[07:25] <jsgotangco> blowing
[07:25] <jsgotangco> tsk tsk
[07:29] <Kamion> fabbione: no problem, I'll do them
[07:29] <Kamion> thanks
[07:31] <Speedy2> mdz: Bug filed: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10189
[07:33] <jbailey> Feh, the editors "fixed" my spec to have a mispelling of colour.  
[07:33] <jbailey> Err, US spelling..
[07:33] <dilinger> haha
[07:33] <jbailey> =)
[07:33] <Speedy2> Blimey.
[07:34] <Keybuk> fix it back
[07:34] <Keybuk> CANONICAL IS A UKish COMPANy
[07:34] <Keybuk> KTHXBYE
[07:35] <Lathiat> haha
[07:35] <daniels> heh, 'ish'
[07:36] <jbailey> You have to admit, if someone nuked the UK, we'd be screwed. =)
[07:36] <thom> i'd be upset
[07:36] <Lathiat> heh
[07:36] <daniels> jbailey: i had one of my specs edited the other day for typos -- every single change was UK->US
[07:36] <Keybuk> daniels: Manx is _technically_ not UK
[07:36] <daniels> thom: what, you'd have to move somewhere sunny?
=== Lathiat laughs
[07:36] <Keybuk> like Melbourne?
[07:37] <Lathiat> anyone here use irssi on a whtie background terminal who has a theme that doesn't suck?
[07:37] <thom> white background terminals by definition suck
[07:37] <jbailey> Does .au use US spelling?
[07:38] <ajmitch_> no
[07:38] <crimsun> I'd think british
[07:38] <daniels> no friggin' way
[07:38] <jbailey> Whyever are they changing it that way then?
[07:38] <daniels> our language has not been coloured by us english
[07:38] <thom> i'm surprised the FTA doesn't mandate us english :P
[07:38] <Lathiat> haha
[07:38] <daniels> tell me about it
[07:38] <Lathiat> whens that come into effect?
[07:38] <Lathiat> soon i think?
=== Lathiat sigh
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[07:38] <daniels> australia's collective arse is definitely an input device
[07:39] <pitti> mvo: PING (Bof starts in -7 minutes)#
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[07:44] <fabbione> Kamion: ok.
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[07:54] <jsgotangco> brb
[07:55] <dholbach> jdub: wow... you changed quite a bunch on UBuntuAndUpstreams
[07:55] <cc> mako: hey, whats a TB ?
[07:55] <dholbach> cc: technical board
[07:55] <cc> ah, okay, thanks dholbach 
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[07:55] <dholbach> cc: wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard
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[07:57] <mdz> cc: tuberculosis
[07:57] <dholbach> mdz: come on, it's not that bad
[07:58] <cc> mdz: heh, funny :) 
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[07:59] <ogra> lol
[07:59] <dholbach> doko: you need some cheering up
[08:00] <dholbach> doko: that's absolutely not polite
[08:00] <jdub> dholbach: just turning bullet points into text
[08:01] <dholbach> jdub: hrm
[08:02] <fabbione> mdz: i did add a few comments to AudioInfrastructure and (i think) explained some of the questions you had. Can you please review it again?
[08:02] <jdub> the editors don't like bullet points ;)
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[08:02] <fabbione> one of the editors still uses fedora
[08:02] <fabbione> we should hang him in a public place!
[08:02] <dholbach> jdub: my approved specs HAVE bullets
[08:02] <thom> the other is on winxp, so neither of them have taste ;-)
[08:02] <Kamion> Speedy2: note reassignment; cdrom-detect has no drivers
[08:03] <fabbione> we will burn the others on the highest hill in Sydney
[08:03] <Kamion> dholbach: as long as the *entire thing* is not un-fleshed-out bullet points :)
[08:03] <jdub> dholbach: maybe they're getting softer now they have so much to do ;)
[08:03] <dholbach> HRM
[08:05] <tseng> jdub: i use bullet points on wiki alot just to force sane line breaking
[08:05] <tseng> easier than [[BR] ] 
[08:06] <jbailey> Easier than learning the wiki syntax of the week.
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[08:08] <mako> cc: tech board
[08:17] <cc> mako: yah, since been fixed; i did have a comment, sent back to you
[08:21] <mdz> fabbione: are you sure that you mean an applet, rather than a daemon?
[08:21] <mdz> fabbione: that is the only point that does not make sense to me
[08:29] <fabbione> mdz: a daemon should still be able to connect to the local X server to show up something to the user. an applet serves that task imho
[08:31] <mdz> fabbione: an applet is something which displays an icon on the panel
[08:31] <mdz> we don't want an icon on the panel
[08:32] <fabbione> mdz: hmmmm
[08:32] <fabbione> so what do you suggest instead to notify the user?
[08:32] <pitti> mdz: hm, we don't?
[08:32] <pitti> mdz: well, we additionally want to pop up a message asking whether to make the new card the default
[08:32] <pitti> mdz: ... and whether to configure it (mixer)
[08:33] <fabbione> pitti: i think we forgot that part out of the specs
[08:33] <pitti> mdz: if this message box explains where to change this setting, we can do without a notification applet
[08:33] <pitti> fabbione: "#
[08:33] <pitti> On a hotplug add event, a dialog should appear asking whether to make this
[08:33] <pitti>     *
[08:33] <pitti>       device the default and offer to set the mixer levels.
[08:33] <pitti> "
[08:33] <fabbione> oh yeah we did
[08:33] <pitti> fabbione: oops, broken formatting
[08:34] <fabbione> np
[08:34] <pitti> mdz: so what about s/panel applet/user daemon/?
[08:34] <tfheen> I would use "session daemon"
[08:35] <pitti> yeah, sounds fine
[08:35] <mdz> yes
[08:35] <mdz> in fact, I think you could use event-notifier
[08:35] <tfheen> since it's connected to the session and aren't stuff like @reboot cron-based daemons which could be considered user daemons.
[08:35] <pitti> since we want to use hal anyway, we already have dbus
[08:36] <pitti> but for dbus we need a permanently running daemon, don't we`
[08:36] <pitti> s/`/?/
=== ogra wonders why smileys are enabled in the wiki....
[08:38] <fabbione> pitti: i leave the last call to you. for me any solution is ok, given that i won't implement it :)
[08:39] <pitti> fabbione: easiest thing would actually be to add it to gnome-volume-manager (*hackhack*), that saves another daemon
[08:39] <pitti> fabbione: and given that "volume" can be interpreted as "sound related", this would actually fit :-)
[08:39] <pitti> no, seriously, I'm not sure about this
[08:40] <mdz> pitti: event-notifier is already there and listening, and it has a generic name :-)
[08:40] <fabbione> pitti: <crack>go for it</crack>
[08:40] <pitti> mdz: sounds fine, but I thought e-n was mostly vaporware for now. I'll talk to mvo
[08:40] <mdz> pitti: it is the daemon currently known as update-notifier, formerly known as uprgade-notifier ;-)
[08:40] <mdz> s/uprg/upgr/
[08:40] <pitti> mdz: ah, that one. Yeah, sounds fine
[08:41] <fabbione> oh using that one is EASY!
[08:41] <pitti> mdz: I already tried to abuse that for crash reporting, but that gives us some trouble, so we won't
=== fabbione just implemented it for the kernel
=== pitti thinks that qualifies fabbione to write it
=== pitti runs away
=== fabbione sends some fireballs towards pitti, crossing all of global
=== pitti gives fabbione another dildo to calm him down
[08:42] <fabbione> pitti: you want to retest the crashreporting with the latest gamin
[08:42] <pitti> fabbione: ENOBREEZY
[08:42] <fabbione> pitti: that have the inotify backend turned off
[08:42] <fabbione> ah ok
[08:42] <pitti> fabbione: I don't want to upgrade my box, that'll cost $1000 or so...
[08:43] <fabbione> pitti: i only have glibc from breezy :)
[08:43] <pitti> fabbione: me too
[08:45] <lifeless> http://fun.sdinet.de/pics/windoof/longhorn.jpg
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[08:45] <lifeless> http://fun.sdinet.de/pics/windoof/longhorn.jpg
[08:46] <tseng> lifeless: thats more riced out that gdesklets on crack
[08:46] <lifeless> don't blame me ;)
[08:46] <fabbione> pitti: are you going to clear up the last bit from AudioInfrastructure
[08:46] <fabbione> ?
[08:46] <tseng> lifeless: i wonder how far that is from real.
[08:47] <fabbione> lifeless: we just figured that one of our last baz commit did corrupt some chars in the kernel tree...
[08:47] <pitti> fabbione: sure
[08:47] <seb128> ogra, I've updated the wiki for the audiocd stuff if you want to read it
[08:47] <Lathiat> lifeless: heheh. :)
[08:47] <fabbione> lifeless: you really want to be part of the kernel team now.. don't you?
[08:48] <ajmitch_> lifeless: we *need* bling like that!
[08:49] <lifeless> fabbione: say what ?
[08:49] <ogra> seb128, thanks, i'll do :)
[08:50] <seb128> cc, LaunchpadIntegration for review if you want to look on it
[08:50] <Lathiat> man, eog displaying a 14M jp thast 10,000x10,000 uses 42% of my 512M ram, crack.
[08:50] <fabbione> lifeless: last commit we did to the kernel baz archive did corrupt stuff around....
[08:51] <fabbione> lifeless: so we were giving you the welcome to the kernel team as tre rebuilder :)
[08:51] <carlos> cc: How are we supposed to ask the questions you put in the wiki? ( I'm talking about: "is RosettaLanguagePackExport done?")
[08:51] <fabbione> s/tre/tree
[08:51] <lifeless> fabbione: that baz version ?
[08:51] <carlos> cc: pinging you here? going to talk with you directly?
[08:51] <tfheen> carlos: answer them in the spec.
[08:52] <cc> carlos: well, no, it was just a question in jest i guess
[08:52] <cc> carlos: but answer it in the spec
[08:52] <cc> seb128: where? udu or launchpad one?
[08:52] <carlos> ok
[08:52] <fabbione> lifeless: Version: 1.4~200504250634
[08:56] <lifeless> fabbione: hmm. weird
[08:56] <lifeless> fabbione: when you say 'corrupt' what do you mean ?
[08:57] <cc> seb128: LaunchpadIntegration needs to go for review again; i've sent it to your queue
[08:58] <lifeless> fabbione: oh and -izgtkbug
[08:58] <pitti> mdz: btw, seb recently forwarded me the mail thread about Cooperative Bug Isolation. Since this will blow up our packages and is not a general solution, I think this is not really desirable
[08:59] <mdz> pitti: regarding AutomatedTesting, I'm not convinced that 'check' should be a dependency of 'binary'
[08:59] <mdz> I think we should be able to enable/disable the tests independently of the build
[08:59] <pitti> mdz: it would be nice for at least packages where it makes sense, so that a build will FTBFS
[09:00] <mdz> the simplest way is to explicitly invoke check
[09:00] <pitti> mdz: so we avoid publishing regressions
[09:00] <pitti> mdz: explicitly invoking is fine, too, but requires buildd changes
[09:00] <pitti> mdz: if that's not a problem, fine for me
[09:00] <mdz> pitti: dpkg-buildpackage?
[09:00] <mdz> I believe sbuild uses dpkg-buildpackage
[09:01] <pitti> mdz: hmm, why do you think a dependency would be evil?
[09:03] <seb128> cc, k, thanks
[09:03] <mdz> pitti: it would make it difficult to build the package without running the tests
[09:03] <mdz> pitti: and the tests can be very time-consuming
[09:03] <pitti> mdz: hmm, ok
[09:03] <lamont_r> sbuild uses dpkg-buildpackage
[09:04] <pitti> mdz: so, dpkg-buildpackage --no-check?
[09:04] <mdz> flac includes comprehensive self-tests which take hours to run on normal hardware
[09:04] <mdz> though the build requires only minutes
[09:04] <mdz> pitti: yes, something like that
[09:05] <pitti> mdz: ok, sounds sane
[09:05] <pitti> mdz: I will update the wiki page
[09:05] <fabbione> lifeless: it did lost a few chars here and there in the commit
[09:07] <mdz> mvo: regarding IdentifyingPrimaryPackages, the seeds would be another good source of input
[09:07] <mdz> pitti: thanks
[09:07] <mvo> mdz: good point, thanks
[09:09] <infinity> mdz : sd;fljasd;lkj 
[09:09] <infinity> sdfasf
[09:09] <lamont_r> infinity: it works already!
[09:09] <infinity> Oops.
[09:09] <infinity> <cough>
[09:10] <infinity> mdz : We can't invoke debian/rules check in dpkg-buildpackage, cause we have no way of knowing if it's there.
[09:10] <infinity> mdz : It was the same reason for not having dpkg-buildpackage call build-arch
[09:10] <infinity> mdz : We can't test for non-make targets...
=== infinity stares at jbailey.
[09:12] <tfheen> infinity: you can, scott argues.
[09:12] <tfheen> infinity: using -np
[09:12] <Unfrgiven> i just computed an md5sum on mako's file (as he instructed) but got a different checksum to what he specified in the email. anyone else have the same problem? im just wondering if gmail messes with the file at all
[09:12] <infinity> Then why was the build-arch thing shot down not that long ago?
[09:12] <tfheen> infinity: that was doogie
[09:13] <infinity> What, precisely does -np do?
[09:13] <infinity> CDBS2 aims to have wildcard targets, apparently.
[09:13] <infinity> Which blow any detection out of the water.
[09:14] <Keybuk> infinity: actually, it doesn't, because make expands the wildcard target if given arguments
[09:14] <fabbione> Unfrgiven: md5sum is correct.
[09:14] <fabbione> no problems here
[09:14] <Keybuk> so build-% shows up as build-arch if you do "make -pn -fdebian/rules build-arch"
[09:15] <infinity> Right, which is wrong.
[09:15] <Unfrgiven> fabbione: uggh... damn gmail... i noticed that the file was in dos format as well even though I downloaded it through firefox on ubuntu
[09:15] <infinity> If your rules file is a wildcard that calls a shell script, the "target" will always exist, even if it isn't supported in the script.
[09:16] <infinity> So, we call it and fail miserably.
[09:17] <mako> Unfrgiven: did you?
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[09:18] <fabbione> Unfrgiven: i can forward to you mako's email to another address if you want
[09:18] <fabbione> but you will need to trust my file
[09:18] <fabbione> or compare it with the one you got from mako
[09:18] <mako> no.. he only needs to trust the md5 sum
[09:19] <Unfrgiven> mako: i didnt understand your question
[09:19] <Unfrgiven> ive got it now guys, thanks
[09:19] <Unfrgiven> i got it off mako's website
[09:19] <fabbione> mako: right.....
[09:19] <mako> http://mako.yukidoke.org/projects/ksp-udu/ksp-udu.txt
[09:20] <Unfrgiven> mako: thanks mako
[09:20] <Unfrgiven> must remember these gmail-isms in the future...
[09:20] <mako> Unfrgiven: no problem :)
[09:20] <mdz> mako: dude, your keysigning instructions are buggy
[09:21] <mako> mdz: dude.. i organized it in like 20 minutes
[09:21] <lifeless> fabbione: I'm not clear on what that means
[09:21] <mako> mdz: file bugs in malone ;)
[09:22] <mako> mdz: whats the bug?
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[09:22] <mako> mdz: is it with the website or the email?
[09:22] <mako> or is it the numbering issue?
[09:22] <mako> 1, 2, 4
[09:22] <mdz> mako: you had an entire BOF Slot scheduled for preparation! ;-)
[09:23] <mdz> mako: 1, 2, 4, and it is missing important bits
[09:23] <mako> yeah, 1 hour before it started :)
[09:23] <mako> mdz: which part?
[09:23] <mdz> mako: like verifying that your fingerprint is correct in the file
[09:23] <mako> oh fuck
[09:23] <mako> it is
[09:23] <mako> i will follow-up
[09:24] <mdz> mako: I would also argue that there is a hypothetical attack possible unless you verify that there is one, and only one, key in that file which could be associated with you
[09:25] <mako> mdz: no, that's not an attack
[09:25] <mako> mdz: because you will verify the keys in the file by number
[09:25] <mako> welll.. ok
[09:25] <mdz> mako: by verifying your fingerprint and the md5sum, you are asserting "that file contains my key"
[09:25] <mako> you will say "#60 and #61 are mine"
[09:25] <mdz> yes, that would be another way, if you verified the number
[09:26] <mako> well, it's sort of a logistical necessity
[09:26] <tfheen> thom: around?
[09:26] <mako> because people need to check it off on their piece of paper
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[09:26] <pitti> lamont_r (cc mdz): if we call debian/rules check explicitly without a dependency, will it be a problem if the invocation fails because the target doesn't exist?
[09:26] <mdz> pitti: no; it can be handled the same way that 'clean' is
[09:27] <mdz> well, sort of
[09:27] <fabbione> pitti: and what if it exists but it doesnt do what is supposed to?
[09:27] <pitti> mdz: but can you tell apart "target doesn't exist" from "test failed"?
[09:27] <pitti> lamont_r: ^
[09:28] <thom> tfheen: yes, in the bar
[09:28] <mdz> pitti: right, that would be the issue
[09:28] <mdz> pitti: supposedly it is possible to test whether a makefile supports a given target
[09:28] <pitti> mdz: it was the primary reason why we made it a dependency
[09:29] <mdz> zsh seems to do it, though I'm not sure how correct it is
[09:30] <tfheen> thom: we have a braindump to write up.  Care to come up?
[09:30] <tfheen> oops, I managed to make emacs segfault.
[09:30] <pitti> mdz: indeed, bash expands makefile targets as well; could take a look at this
[09:30] <thom> tfheen: i'm mid edit of shtoomvoip, can we catch up later?
[09:30] <tfheen> thom: sure
[09:30] <tfheen> thom: I'm sitting around, just come up when you're free?
[09:31] <thom> tfheen: sure
[09:31] <thom> you could come down ;-)
[09:31] <mdz> pitti: we could also require that the target indicate success/failure in some other way
[09:31] <mdz> pitti: such as writing to a file
[09:31] <tfheen> I'm sitting well up here.
[09:31] <mako> mdz: cool, mailed folks
[09:31] <mako> mdz: good catch with the missing #3
[09:31] <thom> tfheen: is dilinger up there?
[09:32] <tfheen> thom: yes
[09:32] <mdz> mako: was it purely a coincidence, or was #3 "check your fingerprint"?
[09:32] <thom> lifeless says he should be in global, unless vieout is quiet, in which case he'll go up
[09:32] <dilinger> oh yea
[09:32] <thom> tfheen/dilinger: ^
[09:32] <dilinger> i have a BOF now, don't i
[09:32] <thom> yes ;-)
[09:33] <dilinger> lifeless: global or VO?
[09:33] <mako> mdz: it was not just that.. i removed something else irrelevant and accidently removed that instruction as well
[09:33] <thom> dilinger: is VO quite or insane?
[09:33] <thom> uh, quiet
[09:33] <tfheen> it's fairly quiet now
[09:33] <tfheen> just elmo and daniels being nice to each other
[09:33] <thom> dilinger: he's coming to you
[09:33] <dilinger> i'll go down to global
[09:33] <mjg59> Excvept daniel won't get me the fucking cakes
[09:33] <dilinger> there's no guarantee it'll stay quiet
[09:33] <dilinger> unless he's already on his ay
[09:33] <dilinger> way
[09:34] <thom> he's already on the way
[09:34] <dilinger> ok
[09:34] <fabbione> dilinger, lamont_r: adding the abinum to the debversion as 2.6.X-ABI-1 doesn't work
[09:34] <fabbione> otherwise we need to release a different orig.tar.gz for each abi change
[09:35] <fabbione> what about 2.6.X-ABI.1 ?
[09:35] <elmo> mjg59: that you're a whole 2 feet from
[09:35] <dilinger> fabbione: epoch! ;)
[09:35] <fabbione> dilinger: ahahha
=== fabbione doesn't want to roll orig.tar.gz for abi changes
=== dilinger doesn't blame you
[09:37] <fabbione> dilinger: i suggest to switch to point release...
[09:37] <fabbione> what do you think?
[09:37] <mdz> fabbione: 2.6.X-ABI+debver? ;-)
[09:38] <fabbione> mdz: 2.4+2.6.X*ABI/debver^"
[09:38] <fabbione> mdz: "+" will break even more
[09:39] <zyga> what are you guys breaking?
[09:39] <mdz> THE WORLD
=== fabbione reverts the changes from done to fucked up in the wiki
[09:39] <zyga> nah, politicians do that
[09:40] <fabbione> zyga: right
[09:40] <fabbione> we break MAIN AND UNIVERSE AND MULTIVERSE AND RESTRICTED
[09:40] <fabbione> we are more cool than politician
[09:40] <jbailey> Dude, we need Westley Crusher.
[09:41] <jbailey> Only he can save the multiverse.
=== fabbione starts to show the first sympthoms of skyzophrenia and muktiple personalities
[09:41] <zyga> oh geez... that australian sun must have boiled your brains ;-)
[09:41] <zyga> *THAT'S INSANE* ;-)
[09:41] <cartman> hehe
[09:41] <jbailey> The sun today is wet and dripping.
[09:41] <cartman> btw is there a ubuntu amd64 channel?
[09:41] <fabbione> yeah.. it's dripping blood of all the virgins we had to sacrifice last night to survive till today
[09:42] <jbailey> fabbione: JaneW did remarkably well at Mao yesterday...
[09:42] <fabbione> cartman: not afaik
[09:42] <cartman> ok
[09:42] <fabbione> jbailey: oh? ehhe
[09:42] <jbailey> cartman: Pretty unlikely, the arch tends to Just Work.
[09:42] <cartman> jbailey: :)
[09:42] <cartman> I can't seem to apt-get mono on amd64
[09:42] <jbailey> cartman: You're more likely to find channels for crazy things like Sparc..
=== jbailey hides.
[09:42] <zyga> jbailey: openoffice2 Just Doesn't (tm)
[09:42] <cartman> so wondrered
[09:42] <cartman> zyga: yeah that monster
[09:43] <jbailey> zyga: Same as on PPC, probably best to send it to bugzilla.  Not alot of hacking happening this week.
[09:43] <pitti> mdz: I updated AutomatedTesting, shall I leave MZQueue and EditedSpec? 
[09:43] <zyga> cartman, jbailey: is that a java issue there or is just something plain broken?
[09:44] <cartman> zyga: OpenOffice is not 64bit clean afaik
[09:44] <zyga> cartman: yeah I remember it was being compiled as 32bit stuff
[09:44] <thom> cartman: 2 should be
[09:44] <tfheen> cartman: mono will work on amd64 after UDU when tseng gets around to uploading a new version.
[09:44] <cartman> tfheen: cool
[09:44] <tfheen> thom: it's not.
[09:44] <cartman> thom: good to know
[09:45] <cartman> oh well
[09:45] <thom> tfheen: i said should be ;-)
[09:45] <tfheen> but it's far, far, far closer.
[09:45] <zyga> btw I've heard that oo is pretty short on developers
[09:45] <zyga> is that true?
[09:45] <tseng> sortof
[09:45] <tfheen> don't know
[09:45] <cartman> zyga: yeah
[09:46] <tseng> its short on non-sun developers
[09:46] <tfheen> it's too bloody big.
[09:46] <cartman> I heard they use german comments ;=
[09:46] <cartman> ;)
[09:46] <tfheen> cartman: it has its basis in staroffice which was developed by germans
[09:46] <tseng> tfheen: mono is building right now.
[09:46] <tfheen> tseng: you're not doing uploads from here?
[09:46] <tseng> no.
[09:46] <cartman> tfheen: there was a fun discussion about importing its doc filter to kword where people wouldn't understand those comments :)
[09:46] <tfheen> cartman: heh
[09:46] <zyga> geez german comments ;>
[09:47] <zyga> somebody should adapt babelfish for comments I guess ;] 
[09:47] <cartman> hehe
[09:47] <zyga> commments.pot
[09:47] <zyga> 150MB
[09:47] <cartman> rofl
[09:47] <zyga> 0 of 12452336 untranslated messages, get to work ;] 
[09:47] <zyga> s/un//
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[09:50] <lamont_r> fabbione: what about just making the version include the abi number?  ala linux-source-2.6.12_2.6.12-1-27
[09:50] <zyga> lamont_r: that's a lot of version numbers to parse
[09:51] <fabbione> lamont_t: that requires an oirg.tar.gz upload each abi bump
[09:51] <fabbione> meh.. orig
[09:51] <zyga> lamont_r: how about 2.6.12_xxx_abi_whatever ? (with 'abi')
[09:51] <fabbione>  dpkg-source -b -i linux-source-2.6.12-2.6.11.91/
[09:51] <fabbione> dpkg-source: warning: source directory `./linux-source-2.6.12-2.6.11.91' is not <sourcepackage>-<upstreamversion> `linux-source-2.6.12-2.6.11.91-1'
[09:51] <fabbione> dpkg-source: building linux-source-2.6.12 in linux-source-2.6.12_2.6.11.91-1-1.tar.gz
[09:51] <fabbione> that's with 2.6.11.91-1-1 in the changelog
[09:52] <lamont_r> fabbione: so rename hte .orig.tar.gz...
[09:52] <lamont_r> since that says upstream version is '2.6.11.91-1'
[09:52] <fabbione> lamont_r: dude.. it's a 50Mb of upload each abi change and a NEW approval from james....
[09:53] <lamont_r> fabbione: yeah
[09:53] <fabbione> elmo would hang me on the top of the empire state building
[09:55] <lamont_r> fabbione: I'm sure he'd find somewhere closer...
[09:57] <pitti> cc: AudioInfrastructure edited and reassigned
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[10:01] <tfheen> mdz: around?
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[10:14] <mjg59> http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2005/04/hacking_in_iraq.html - Ubuntu CDs being distributed in Iraq
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[10:34] <jbailey> mjg59: Great.  Like it's not hard enough to visit the US as it is...
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[10:43] <jsgotangco> good evening evil .au users
[10:43] <dilinger> fabbione: i got caught up in a BOF.  have you given in and decided to go the epoch route yet? :)
[10:44] <fabbione> dilinger: die :)
[10:44] <thom> infinity: fancy visiting the bar quickly?
[10:45] <mjg59> thom: For b33r?
[10:45] <fabbione> thom: too many jacket and ties at the bar :)
[10:45] <thom> no, for ServerTeam spec
[10:45] <thom> fabbione: you'd like the skirts though ;-)
[10:46] <jsgotangco> wooo
[10:46] <fabbione> dilinger: i am more for -ABI.debnum
[10:46] <mjg59> Bah
[10:46] <fabbione> thom: i saw them already passing by :)
[10:46] <thom> fabbione: heh
[10:46] <fabbione> thom: that's why your call was suspicious
[10:46] <thom> mjg59: b33r in 30?
[10:46] <thom> fabbione: *g*
[10:46] <mdz> tfheen: yes
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[10:47] <fabbione> mdz: are you free now?
[10:47] <mjg59> thom: SUBSCRIBE
[10:48] <tfheen> cc: what's up with 
[10:48] <cc> tfheen: wqith what ?
[10:48] <tfheen> cc: uhm, what's up with buntu and EarlyUserspace?
[10:48] <fabbione> mdz: mdz: (nothing urgnet)
[10:48] <cc> tfheen: have i even looked at 'em. hmm
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[10:48] <tfheen> cc: that is, are you insanely overworked and I should go away or haven't you seen them?
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[10:48] <cc> tfheen: haven't seen 'em yet
[10:49] <tfheen> cc: ok, I'll go away then.
[10:49] <cc> tfheen: seeing earlyuserspace now
[10:49] <dilinger> fabbione: the main problem i'd see w/ that is things considering all uploads a NMU (an issue for the debian BTS; i'm not sure whether any ubuntu infrastructure would behave differently because of it)
[10:49] <fabbione> dilinger: we don't care.. it's a point release
[10:49] <fabbione> we don't have NMU as a concept
[10:50] <fabbione> we all maintain everything or along that line 
[10:50] <dilinger> ok
[10:50] <seb128> cc, what's the issue with AudioCDBurning ? The number of issues ? I don't expect to get a reply from upstream that fast by example, what are we supposed to do ?
[10:51] <cc> tfheen: i'm satisfied with earlyuserspace; but i want simon to read it, so i'm going to push its status up, but let simon read it
[10:51] <tfheen> cc: it's the second time it passes you, but sure, your call. :)
[10:52] <cc> seb128: more like place the bottom at the top; i.e. the conclusion (i.e. what system do you want) at the introduction. so if its serpentine, say why you're basing on that. or the other
[10:53] <seb128> k
[10:53] <jbailey> cc: Thanks. =)
[10:53] <seb128> thanks
[10:53] <cc> jbailey: ta.
[10:53] <cc> seb128: and if you fix that, i'll up your status
[10:53] <cc> but let simon read it too
[10:54] <seb128> k
[10:54] <jbailey> cc: WindowsInteroperability got punted back, I think we've editted it right and passed it back to your queue.  Is there anything we should do to tell you that it might be worth just looking at the diff?
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[10:54] <cc> jbailey: i'll look at the diff, tbh
[10:55] <jbailey> cc: Cool.  I'd hate for you to have to go through the whole thing just for a few edits.
[10:56] <cc> jbailey: ja. that'd drive me insane
[10:56] <jbailey> cc: We'll know that's happened when your tourettes extends into the spec's you mark as editted ;)
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[11:03] <Kamion> tfheen,ajmitch,Keybuk,thom: I'm creating a new InitProcess BOF for coordination between DependencyInit and UdevRaces, to make sure the overlap between them doesn't result in too much confusion when we actually come to implement them
[11:05] <tfheen> sounds fine
[11:09] <Kamion> dilinger: ^-- for you as well :)
[11:10] <ajmitch_> Kamion: alright
[11:11] <thom> Kamion: thanks dude
[11:15] <infinity> Kamion : Don't forget to sign me up for that one.
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[11:17] <Kamion> infinity: oh yes, I added you as well already
[11:23] <infinity> Kamion : Snazzy.
[11:24] <seb128> cc, AudioCDBurning updated if you can take a quick look on it
[11:24] <cc> seb128: i will, definitely
[11:25] <seb128> thanks
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[11:29] <cc> seb128: not quite what i wanted, but i think we'll let simon look at it further. he's mr. english anyways. but its technically sound, generally
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[11:52] <ctd> daniels: my vga out stopped working, fix it.
=== Lathiat grins
[11:57] <daniels> ctd: figment of your imagination
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[12:15] <astharot> ciao
[12:21] <eruin> has anyone reported aspell issues in breezy?
[12:22] <eruin> I think I saw something, but I can't find it on bugzilla nor lists anymore
[12:23] <cartman> eruin: I got some problems but define yours
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[12:23] <eruin> cartman: undefined symbols error keeping, say, bluefish from starting
[12:24] <eruin> resolved by downgrading to hoary version
[12:24] <cartman> eruin: cxx related symbols?
[12:24] <cartman> it seems to miss some stdc++ symbols here, I guess a linking problem
[12:24] <eruin> now that I wouldn't know
[12:24] <eruin> :p
[12:25] <cartman> eruin: eh
[12:27] <eruin> sigh, launchpad search isn't quite optimal
[12:27] <eruin> cartman: https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/tasks/403/+edit
[12:28] <eruin> cartman: I get the same, not while starting gaim, but bluefish
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[12:28] <cartman> not related to mine
[12:28] <eruin> :/
[12:29] <eruin> I don't think anyone is actually watching launchpad ;-)
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[12:48] <Robot101> mjg59: been fiddling with some network stuff in perl. tcp over DNS is easier really...
[12:49] <astharot> Robot101: ozyman ?
[12:50] <Robot101> hm?
[12:50] <Robot101> just because nstx is so poor
[12:50] <astharot> what do you use for tcp over dns ?
[12:50] <Robot101> scabbing free wireless :)
[12:50] <astharot> lol
[12:51] <astharot> ever tried ozyman dns ?
[12:51] <Robot101> no, hmm
[12:52] <astharot> try it
[12:52] <Robot101> excellent
[12:52] <astharot> it does ssh over dns
[12:52] <Robot101> wasn't aware of that, or too keen on setting up NSTX... :)
[12:53] <astharot> eheh
[12:53] <astharot> but that one is multi platform
[12:53] <astharot> nstx is just for linux
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[01:36] <Lathiat> is 'prelink' crack?
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[01:51] <Unfrgiven> hey all
[01:51] <Unfrgiven> is there a good way to batch sign a bunch of keys without entering in my passphrase for each one?
[01:52] <Lathiat> i think theres a script for it
[01:53] <Unfrgiven> do you know where i could get it?
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[03:03] <eruin> Lathiat: yes, prelink is crack
[03:03] <Treenaks> and very BAD crack at that
[03:04] <eruin> agreed
[03:04] <Lathiat> right, i thought so
[03:05] <Lathiat> does it actually make a difference?
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[03:06] <Treenaks> it might be a bit faster
[03:07] <Lathiat> noticably, faster :)
[03:08] <Treenaks> Lathiat: ask on www.funroll-loops.org
=== Lathiat laughs
[03:09] <Treenaks> Lathiat: it's definately more annoying
[03:09] <Lathiat> Treenaks: how so?>
[03:09] <Treenaks> Lathiat: (re-prelink on every library upgrade \o/)
[03:10] <Lathiat> eww
[03:10] <Lathiat> ugly
[03:10] <Treenaks> Lathiat: and afaik libc etc. can't be shared in memory
[03:10] <Lathiat> eww
[03:10] <Lathiat> total crack. :)
[03:10] <Treenaks> and it only affects startup
[03:10] <Treenaks> not runtime performance
[03:10] <Lathiat> someone should make someone remove it from ubuntuguide.org :)
[03:10] <Lathiat> Treenaks: oh yeh i know that
[03:10] <Treenaks> it's on ubuntuguide.org?
[03:10] <Treenaks> CRACK
[03:10] <Lathiat> yeh
[03:10] <Lathiat> "How to make programs run faster? (prelink)"
[03:10] <Lathiat> also, there are no sane documentation on how to decently install ndiswrapper
[03:10] <Lathiat> i hate wrong documentation :\
[03:10] <Lathiat> its so easy with ubuntu
[03:10] <Treenaks> Lathiat: fix it ;)
[03:10] <Lathiat> module-assistant auto-install ndiswrapper
[03:10] <Lathiat> none of this compiling from source crap
[03:10] <Lathiat> (manually)
[03:11] <Treenaks> oh that yes
[03:11] <Lathiat> module-assistant is cool
[03:11] <Lathiat> i only just discovered it today
[03:11] <Treenaks> Lathiat: mail Chua Wen Kiat about it
[03:11] <Lathiat> it totally rocks
[03:11] <jsgotangco> Chua Wen Kiat is joining documentation (at last) so we'll get to fix a lot of stuff
[03:11] <Lathiat> all we need is some magic that rebuilds each one you auto-install when new kernel versions are installed
[03:11] <Lathiat> andit'd be all set.
[03:12] <Treenaks> Lathiat: ndiswrapper modules are included, you just need to load them afaik
[03:12] <Lathiat> jsgotangco: cool
[03:12] <Lathiat> Treenaks: not until breezy afaik
[03:12] <Lathiat> its in the 2.6.12 test kernels
[03:12] <Treenaks> installing ndiswrapper-utils - Userspace utilities for ndiswrapper
[03:12] <Treenaks> should be enough
[03:12] <Lathiat> oh, it is in 2.6.10-5
[03:12] <Lathiat> just ndiswrapper-utils fails to install
[03:12] <Treenaks> ah
[03:12] <Lathiat> unless ndiswrapper-modules-1.1 is installed
[03:12] <Lathiat> so that was a bug
[03:12] <Treenaks> *headdesk*
[03:13] <Lathiat> i might try fix that
[03:14] <Lathiat> so i dropped out of X and stuff
[03:14] <Lathiat> to do something
[03:14] <Lathiat> and i cant remember what
[03:14] <Treenaks> mkfs /dev/hda
[03:14] <Lathiat> heh
[03:14] <Treenaks> editing xorg.conf?
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[04:44] <GheRivero> res everyone
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[06:14] <AndyFitz> whats with the topic header ?
[06:14] <AndyFitz> mom is awake ! ?
[06:15] <trulux> hah
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[06:17] <wasabi> It seems like evolution in breezy is in a fairly inconsistant state.
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[06:18] <Lathiat> blame UDU
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[06:29] <AndyFitz> no way man  
[06:29] <AndyFitz> we knew about this when LCA was on
[06:30] <AndyFitz> there's no excuse  :P  well UDU is a pretty good exvuse
[06:30] <Burgundavia> meetings for 12 hours a day are no excuse
[06:30] <AndyFitz> jdub quietly said to me the other day "  oh , you use evolution..   .. better not upgrade to breezy for a while "
[06:30] <wasabi> oh heh.
[06:31] <AndyFitz> Burgundavia,  is not the meetins 12 hours a day.  its the badwidth
[06:31] <Burgundavia> lol
[06:33] <AndyFitz> 2:30 am here in syd
[06:33] <AndyFitz> time to go to bed
[06:33] <AndyFitz> ciao guys ...  update ubuntu-artwork in breezy ROCK
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[06:40] <ali4728> help needed ubuntu mysql server setup / how do I give permission to the users?
[06:41] <cartman> ali4728: #ubuntu
[06:44] <ali4728> ??
[06:45] <mdke> ali4728, the #ubuntu channel is for support and they can help you
[06:46] <ali4728> yeah they great there
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[06:54] <zul> or #mysql
[06:54] <zul> oops..
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[07:17] <_nyn_> hi. i've been here the other day complaining that gnome isn't customizable, a claim that was boldly denied by others in this channel. and now one my greatest fears about this [perceived, if you will]  rigidity has been confirmed: there is no way to change the menu root structure: it is just hardcoded.
[07:18] <_nyn_> is that also considered acceptable/desirable? to have the root menu structure hardcoded?
[07:19] <_nyn_> oh, and i really can't believe that the thing *is* really hardcoded... i'm waiting for someone to tell that it isn't...
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[07:20] <astharot> ciao
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[07:26] <mdke> _nyn_, you need to consult gnome bugzilla about that
[07:27] <mdke> this channel is not the correct place
[07:28] <_nyn_> there is no irc channel for discussion of the design issues of GNU/GNOME/*?
[07:28] <mdke> _nyn_, there may be, but its not this one
[07:28] <_nyn_> :)
[07:28] <mdke> _nyn_, you can try irc.gimp.net i think
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[10:05] <robertj_> heya all, does anyone know if there is anything specific with the livecd that would prevent it from creating files larger than 2gb?
[10:06] <robertj_> or more accurately, might cause a program to think that it wouldn't be able to create files larger than 2gb even on a network mount
[10:06] <bur[n] er> smbfs??
[10:07] <robertj_> hrmm, yeah
[10:07] <robertj_> could that be it?
[10:07] <bur[n] er> is that how you're mounting it?
[10:07] <bur[n] er> it's a windows share?
[10:07] <robertj_> yeah, thanks
[10:07] <bur[n] er> yw?  
[10:07] <Lathiat> might be possible windows wont take a file larger than 2GB
[10:07] <bur[n] er> :)
[10:07] <Lathiat> afaik, it doesnt
[10:07] <Lathiat> at least on fat32
[10:07] <bur[n] er> well...
[10:08] <robertj_> Lathiat: who uses ffat32 anymore ;)
[10:08] <bur[n] er> smbfs may not check to see if it's fat or ntfs
[10:08] <bur[n] er> fat can't be 2 gigs
[10:08] <robertj_> its actually hfs
[10:08] <robertj_> hfs+ to be exact ;)
[10:08] <bur[n] er> even still...
[10:08] <bur[n] er> smbfs 'may' just assume fat?
[10:08] <robertj_> yeah, I'm reading up
[10:08] <bur[n] er> i don't know the validity of that claim :)
[10:08] <bur[n] er> but sounds rational
[10:08] <robertj_> I thought it was partimage checking something with the kernel
[10:08] <robertj_> but smbfs sounds more reasonable
[10:08] <robertj_> I cheated and just split the file into chunks ;)
[10:08] <bur[n] er> aww, part image
[10:09] <robertj_> you have feelings about partimage?
=== bur[n] er still uses norton ghost on a windows PE bootable cd :)
[10:09] <bur[n] er> it's just not as simple and automatic
[10:09] <robertj_> burner: did you read norton's licencing agreement?
[10:09] <bur[n] er> they dont' allow that?
[10:09] <robertj_> your supposed to have one ghost licence per hd
[10:09] <bur[n] er> ooh
[10:09] <bur[n] er> ouch
[10:09] <robertj_> so theoretically if you ghost 100 hds you are supposed to dole out $15/piece for some enterprise licence
[10:10] <robertj_> which also of course comes with tons of crap you don't need
[10:10] <bur[n] er> naturally
[10:10] <bur[n] er> i've been lookign for a solution for some time
[10:10] <bur[n] er> partimage is ok, but it's not a readable format
[10:10] <bur[n] er> a nice .tar.bz2 would be nice
[10:10] <robertj_> so partimage seems nice, if it had a gui and integrated with gnomevfs and if gnomevfs wasn't the worst vfs I have ever used, then it would be great
[10:10] <bur[n] er> mount a network share, and tarball up the drive so it can be read by any old file-roller or winzip :)
[10:10] <bur[n] er> lol
[10:11] <bur[n] er> gnomevfs is getting better
[10:11] <robertj_> burner: I'm thinking I'll do windows backup wizard to OS X smbfs
[10:11] <robertj_> burner: slowly, and ftp was agonizing yesterday
[10:11] <bur[n] er> to each their own :)
[10:11] <bur[n] er> simply safe backup is free on windows
[10:11] <bur[n] er> nto sure if it could be popped on a livecd though
[10:12] <robertj_> burner: well professional includes the backup utils as well
[10:12] <bur[n] er> can it work from a livecd though?
[10:12] <bur[n] er> how you supposed to copy files that are in use?
[10:13] <bur[n] er> windows doesn't like that :)
[10:14] <robertj_> burner: dunno, it will eventually get a copy of everything though
[10:14] <robertj_> the real risk I suppose is your email client getting it's message store lost because you never close out
[10:15] <robertj_> but I guess the real answer would be have the machine log out and do it at night
[10:15] <robertj_> I only am interested in the Documents and Settings folder though
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[10:16] <robertj_> Carbon-Copy-Cloner on the Mac is great though, having a Gtk Version of that would be great
[10:26] <Lathiat> man why do i always get sucked into helping in #ubuntu when im there
[10:26] <Lathiat> i think i pity all the people getting back advice :\
[10:27] <bur[n] er> if you only want docs & settings, why even partimage :)  just 'cp' :)
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[10:27] <robertj_> burn: well this is for the initial rollout
[10:28] <robertj_> GhettoGhost
[10:28] <bur[n] er> awww, i see
[10:28] <bur[n] er> ghetto fab :)
[10:28] <bur[n] er> hope it works for ya
=== bur[n] er googles for partimage gtk interfaces
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[10:44] <sivang> hey all
[10:44] <trulux> hey sivang 
[10:44] <sivang> yo trulux , what's up? are you in UDU ?
[10:45] <trulux> sivang: no, I've contacted Mark asking for the sponsorship he did for some devs but still no reply
[10:45] <trulux> I'm sad about not going to the UDU
[10:45] <trulux> but that's life.... 
=== trulux has now another problem, a broken screen
[10:45] <trulux> sivang: it's not my day <- s/day/week/
[10:46] <sivang> trulux: ah well, I've felt that way for some time, but things will get better, I can promise.
[10:46] <sivang> trulux: :-)
=== Lathiat ponders
[10:53] <Lathiat> given marks background, youd think ubuntu.com could have a real ssl certificate. :)
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[10:56] <trulux> Lathiat: why? isn't it a bit fascist to trust an enterprise for giving you something you can have done at your own for free?
[10:57] <trulux> Lathiat: It's the monopoly of SSL certificates, dumb thing that it's supported by more than just one funky man
[10:58] <trulux> Lathiat: better if Mark puts some money on open infrastructure like OSDL does with their distributed compilation and testing network
[10:58] <trulux> it simply would rock
[10:58] <Lathiat> ssl certificates are hardly that expensive :)
[10:59] <Lathiat> but yeh
[11:01] <trulux> Lathiat: at least the money that it normally costs can be spend to feed those can die tomorrow because of starvation, that's sufficient for me to think on *not* investing any money in certificates (dis)authorities
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-devel: Ubuntu Development | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-love for getting involved | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DeveloperResources | Ubuntu 5.04 is released!  http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2005-April/000023.html | MOM is awake!
=== Topic (#ubuntu-devel): set by Pathoschild at Sun Apr 17 13:37:02 2005
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[12:20] <fabbione> hey doko
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[12:40] <moquist> jdub: pong
[12:42] <jdub> moquist: hey
[12:42] <jdub> moquist: i'll remember in a moment :)
[12:45] <fabbione> jdub
[12:46] <jdub> morning fabbione 
=== fabbione feels aussied
[12:47] <HrdwrBoB> aussie++
[12:48] <fabbione> jetlag is already hitting back
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[12:49] <pitti> Hey folks!
[12:49] <pitti> what a ride...
[12:50] <fabbione> hey pitti
[12:50] <fabbione> yeah
[12:52] <pitti> Hi fabbione 
[12:52] <pitti> had a good trip?
[12:53] <pitti> I had 2.5 hours delay, fine otherwise
[12:53] <fabbione> pitti: syd -> lon = great
[12:53] <fabbione> lon -> cph = hell
[12:53] <fabbione> no delay.. just a royal mess
[12:53] <Treenaks> fabbione: what kind of hell?
[12:54] <fabbione> Treenaks: i was supposed to arrive to the hotel in london around 10pm
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[12:55] <fabbione> i was there at 1:30am without money and without being able to cash anywhere to pay the taxi to go to the airport again in the morning
[12:55] <Treenaks> ouch
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[12:59] <moquist> jdub: heh; k
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[02:20] <dilinger> syd->california flights have been great
[02:20] <dross> is there a log for #ubuntu-devel. I dropped out a conversation last night because of stupid Charter
[02:20] <dilinger> california<->nyc flights have been awful.  packed flights, no room at all..
[02:22] <fabbione> dross: unfortunatly no
[02:22] <fabbione> hey dilinger 
[02:22] <fabbione> dross: the log server has been down for almost 3 days
[02:22] <Robot101> dross: it looks like you dropped out about an hour ago and missed nothing, or do you mean before that?
[02:23] <fabbione> it come back online not too long ago
[02:23] <Robot101> oh, 03:33
[02:23] <Robot101> I have it all in scrollback if you want
[02:23] <dilinger> fabbione: hey
=== fabbione needs to go and crash... too much jeglat
[02:24] <fabbione> jetlag
[02:24] <pitti> Hi dilinger 
[02:24] <dilinger> pitti: hi
[02:25] <dross> well I was having a conversation with robertj, and how useless it was to reinvent the wheel when there are more near perfect wheels already out there
[02:28] <mjg59> Beagle is a wheel. We do not wish to reinvent it.
[02:29] <dross> mjg59: wasn't referring to beagle, was referring to C#/mono implementation
[02:31] <mjg59> dross: In reference to someone saying something along the lines of "Beagle will soon be in Breezy", you started complaining about Mono
[02:32] <mjg59> Personally, I'm not that concerned about Mono. However, people are writing high-quality software that uses it, and so it's worth supporting
[02:32] <mjg59> (since the alternative is rewriting all of that software)
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[02:33] <Treenaks> mjg59: it's a bit like java in that respect :)
[02:33] <dross> mjg59: theres Python, a language which has been out. Python has been better(python2), has much more libraries, and much more support
[02:33] <dross> mjg59: mono/C# is useless
[02:33] <Treenaks> mjg59: "people write cool software for it, but the fact that you need a VM sucks"
[02:33] <dross> mjg59: its basically a cruch for MS users
[02:34] <mjg59> dross: I don't really know how to phrase this more clearly. Good software is being written in it. Ubuntu wish to ship good software. The two choices are (a) rewrite that good software, or (b) ship Mono
[02:34] <dross> mjg59: I'll rewrite it :P
[02:34] <mjg59> Fine. When you're finished, we can discuss dropping Mono.
[02:35] <dross> I guess mono could be a good prototype langauge since its useless and not stable everywhere
[02:36] <dross> it certainly isn't stable on bsd, and won't work well or build on sparc.
[02:36] <dross> python on the other hand works everywhere. So do the other langauges like ruby. I care about programs that are portable. Mono almost as proprietary as Microsoft for Linux
[02:36] <mjg59> Sigh. Yes, compilers and VMs tend to be somewhat platform specific.
[02:36] <mjg59> Python works everywhere because it's been ported to those platforms.
[02:37] <dross> mjg59: yes, well. Python seemed to write it correctly the first time around. So did Ruby
[02:37] <dross> mjg59: and why waste time creating another language while there are others. This is what I don't understand.
[02:38] <dross> Python is the more perfect language(unfortuntely, but I'll use it because its the more perfect dynamic OO language) (*hint: I like ruby design more :P)
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[02:38] <mjg59> I am so unbelievably uninterested in language advocacy that you wouldn't believe it.
[02:38] <pitti> Hey sivang 
[02:38] <Treenaks> dross: ruby is what you get when you put python + perl in a box and shake violently
[02:38] <sivang> pitti: Hey Martin, mjg59
[02:38] <luis_> surely there must be some channel better suited for a language flamewar?
[02:39] <sivang> Treenaks: is this a good thing then?
[02:39] <sivang> Treenaks: (sounds so)
[02:39] <dross> Treenaks: well. The user commmunity has really screwy ideas, which I like. They seem to implement interesting ways of doing things. Which creates more ideas
=== dilinger would like to see muine in ruby
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[02:40] <dross> luis_: you should recognise the difference between flamewar, and intellectual conversation
[02:40] <luis_> hrm
[02:40] <luis_> so
[02:40] <dross> dilinger: unfortunately ruby lacks speed :)
[02:40] <luis_> perhaps 'flamewar' was too strong a word
[02:40] <luis_> but 'intellectual conversation' is also quite a bit too strong
[02:40] <dross> dilinger: I only use it to create ideas. Its one of the slowest langauges I've _ever_ used. Its a good langauge though
[02:40] <luis_> for at least what I've seen in the past ~10 minutes
[02:40] <dross> luis_: get used to longer words :)
[02:41] <dilinger> dross: a muine-alike wouldn't need speed.  gstreamer's in C, the only thing that might be slow is the album cover lookups during the first import (which would probably be slowed down by network more than anything else)
[02:42] <dross> oh god :P you don't understand how slow this is. 
[02:42] <bob2> dross: you've actually profiled it and determined it's a C# problem?
[02:43] <dross> dilinger: I made a nice mysql applet for a server, and client as well. It could only perform about 150-200 users a second. Its slow
[02:43] <dross> bob2: I'm talking about ruby
[02:43] <bob2> dross: or are you just assuming that is the case since you already dislike mono?
[02:43] <bob2> same thing
[02:43] <bob2> you seem to be a python fanboy
[02:44] <sivang> guys, isn't this channel supposed to be about ubuntu development?
[02:44] <Treenaks> Please continue in #flamewars
[02:44] <bob2> yes
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[02:45] <sivang> for instance, I'd be interested to know what work have been done about launchpad integration lately :-)
[02:46] <bob2> five trillion specs were generated
[02:46] <Treenaks> bob2: the fact that they were generated in such an out-of-the-way timezone didn't help me (as non-attendee) tracking it
[02:47] <sivang> Treenaks: yep ;-)
[02:47] <bob2> I'm not sure timezones would have been a problem
[02:47] <bob2> since all the discussion was done in person, anyway
[02:48] <sivang> bob2: in person? what do you mean? weren't there BOFs?
[02:48] <Treenaks> sivang: well, aren't BOFs "in person"? :)
[02:48] <Treenaks> bob2: (assuming you don't mean 1-on-1)
[02:49] <bob2> they were bofs only in name
[02:49] <bob2> most were 3-4 people on an assigned task
[02:49] <Treenaks> hmm..
[02:49] <bob2> sivang: by "in person" I mean, "even if you were on IRC at the time, there was no discussion for you to participate in"
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[02:59] <dross> bob2: my question still stands, "Why create another langauge when theres others out there?"
[02:59] <dholbach> hellas!
[02:59] <pitti>  Hey dholbach, had a good train ride?
[02:59] <bob2> dross: why judge what other people do with their free time?
[03:00] <bob2> anyway, this is off-topic and pointless
[03:00] <dholbach> pitti: car :-)
[03:00] <dholbach> pitti: you arrived alright?
[03:00] <pitti> dholbach: yes, I got a later flight at 09:05
[03:00] <dholbach> bob2: hey! how are you?
[03:00] <bob2> dholbach: aloha
[03:00] <dholbach> bob2: i forgot all the VB, i wanted to take to germany
[03:00] <dholbach> it's a pity
[03:01] <bob2> haha
[03:01] <bob2> there's a word to describe that sort of thing, you know :P
[03:01] <dholbach> ;-)
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[03:03] <dross> bob2: people could be more productive to the rest of the community than wasting time? 
[03:04] <dholbach> dross: it's volunteer work and everybody chooses himself, what he does in that spar time
[03:04] <bob2> dross: oh so very off-topic, so last comment, but think about it: it's their time, you have no right at all to tell them what to do with it or to get annoyed if they don't work on what you want
[03:04] <dross> dholbach: what about the women? :P
[03:04] <Gandalfar> who is responsible for ubuntu wiki? it seems a bit 404-ed
[03:05] <dross> Gandalfar: every human is responsible for the wiki
[03:05] <Gandalfar> dross: I see, yet i'm a bit confused how to fix this one
[03:05] <Gandalfar> dross: if I go to main ubuntu page, and click 'wiki' I get some error
[03:05] <luis_> I just got there, but it was slow
[03:05] <dross> oh, I see.
[03:06] <dross> AttibuteError
[03:06] <dholbach> hey luis_ 
[03:06] <dross> that looks awefully familiar, what is the ubuntulinux wiki written in?
[03:07] <dross> *awfully
[03:07] <bob2> zwiki
[03:07] <dross> I thought so
[03:07] <dross> I couldn't get the "AttributeError out of my head since I seen it so much :)
[03:08] <dross> could somebody have deleted the frontpage?
[03:08] <dross> I bet it was a Gentoo terrorist
[03:08] <pitti> Mithrandir: here?
[03:19] <dross> wow.. beagle is a very small application
[03:20] <Treenaks> dross: yes.. it only eats 100M/day on my work machine
[03:20] <Treenaks> (SuSE 9.3 version)
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[03:23] <dross> Treenaks: it might take many resources, but its still small.
[03:24] <Treenaks> uh probably
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[03:37] <dholbach> see you later
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[04:22] <ogra> hello world 
[04:22] <pitti> Hey ogra
[04:22] <sivang> hello ogra :-)
[04:23] <ogra> :)
[04:23] <sivang> ogra: what's up? 
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[04:24] <ogra> sivang, jetlaging .... trying to stay awake while my body thinks its 20 past midnight...
[04:24] <ogra> (its afternoon here)
[04:25] <sivang> ogra: then go to sleep , rest abit what can happen?
[04:25] <pitti> argh, seb128 does the upload rave again
[04:25] <sivang> pitti: heh
[04:25] <sivang> pitti: seb the "chainsaw" 
[04:25] <ogra> sivang, if i rest now it will be similar tomorrow....so i'll try to get back to normal TZ as fast as possible
[04:26] <sivang> ogra: ah right, well, small price to pay for attending the conference :-)
[04:26] <ogra> sivang, sure :) 
[04:27] <sivang> ogra: anyway nice to see all back in place, now going to back to a more normal time zone for working 
[04:42] <pitti> bye folks, see you tomorrow
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[06:35] <dholbach> seb128: must feel good to be back, right? ;-)
[06:35] <seb128> yeah :)
[06:35] <dholbach> seb128: breezy-changes tells me :-)
[06:36] <seb128> bah, need to do something to not sleep :p
[06:39] <seb128> elmo: can you drop evolution-data-server1.2 from universe and sync libgnomeprint quick-lounge-applet libgnomeprintui from debian experimental ?
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[06:53] <dholbach> hey tritium, hey doko__ 
[06:55] <tritium> hi dholbach 
[06:55] <tritium> I thought you'd be napping, dholbach :)  How are you?
[06:57] <dholbach> tritium: i was :-)
[06:57] <dholbach> tritium: i'm a bit confused about all the time and feel sleepy, but ok
[06:58] <tritium> dholbach: :-)
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[07:17] <GheRivero> res
[07:19] <zyga> hello
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[07:50] <cartman> any ETA for a new gcc upload? Current kde cvs blacklisted gcc 4.0.0 as it miscompiles KDE and this is fixed in gcc 4.0 branch
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[07:52] <usual> omg! mom is awake?
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[07:53] <usual> you guys do the devel, where would I find an upgraded packages change log
[07:54] <Burgundavia> the archive of breezy-changes?
[07:54] <cartman> usual: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/breezy-changes
[07:54] <cartman> for breezy
[07:55] <usual> k
[07:55] <usual> thats what I wanted
[07:55] <usual> thanks
[07:55] <cartman> np
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[08:13] <mdz> morning
[08:14] <luis_> morning, mdz
[08:14] <dholbach> hey mdz 
[08:14] <Lathiat> moaning
[08:15] <usual> ooo
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[08:37] <Treenaks> wow, seb is back in Upload Mode :)
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[08:49] <mako> dude, i have sleep poisoning
[08:49] <Burgundavia> mako, did you see my email?
[08:50] <mdz> mako: you live
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[09:17] <mako> mdz: i slept for like 14 hours
[09:18] <mako> Burgundavia: yep, i saw last night but i was a little too tired to respond
[09:18] <Burgundavia> mako, np
[09:18] <mako> Burgundavia: i'm glad that things went well, bummed that whoever was supposed to order cds didn't
[09:18] <mdz> mako: I slept a bunch on the plane, got home in the early afternoon, stayed up until a reasonable hour, went to sleep, and then fought my way awake at like 1100
[09:19] <mdz> and I think I'll be OK from here
[09:19] <mdz> going the other direction was far worse
[09:19] <mako> mdz: hopefully last night was just recovering from the trip and i'll be alright from here on out
[09:19] <Burgundavia> mako, it still worked out. We were to be the only distro with cds there
[09:19] <mako> Burgundavia: nice
[09:19] <mdz> there was no period of time that I could have slept on the plane which would have aligned me time-zone-wise
[09:20] <mdz> mako: don't forget about the weekend after next
[09:24] <zyga> seb128: ping
[09:26] <seb128> pong
[09:27] <zyga> seb128: I'm trying to make that lshal output usefull now
[09:27] <zyga> seb128: but I've found something strange, can lshal ... hang?
[09:28] <seb128> I don't think so
[09:28] <zyga> seb128: after 'logging in' with the broken cd in drive the system hanged (even gnome-panel was hanged for a moment)
[09:28] <zyga> seb128: I've quickly logged in on tty1 and did
[09:28] <zyga> lshal > lshal.out
[09:29] <zyga> and ... lshal hanged as well
[09:29] <zyga> after a moment (30 seconds) everything went on just as usual
[09:30] <zyga> I cannot eject the cd now
[09:30] <zyga> pressing the button on the drive opens the tray
[09:30] <mdke> do launchpad bugs get files under distribution:Ubuntu?
[09:30] <zyga> but it immediatly comes back (even though I'm no longer attempting to mount the cd)
[09:30] <seb128> how have you broken the CD on this way ?
[09:31] <zyga> seb128: It's a semi writtien cd-r disk
[09:31] <zyga> seb128: burining 'succeeded' in k3b but the disk is dead
[09:31] <zyga> seb128: my dad was trying to clone an audio disk
[09:31] <zyga> seb128: what should I do to eject the disk?
[09:32] <zyga> seb128: could any lsof / lshal output be usefull for you?
[09:33] <zyga> seb128: note, lshal hangs ATM
[09:33] <zyga> seb128: lsof goes on allright
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[09:34] <zyga> seb128: join #flood please
[09:34] <seb128> to be honest I've no clue about this bug
[09:34] <seb128> I doubt than anybody else is going to screw a CD on this way
[09:34] <seb128> and I don't get the bug
[09:35] <zyga> the last two lines appeared after about a minute
[09:35] <mdz> sounds like a hardware problem
[09:35] <zyga> mdz: broken drive?
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[09:37] <zyga> seb128: anyway I'm more than willing to offer any help (even shell account on the offending box) if you'd like to investigate this 
[09:37] <seb128> I've around 300 bugs waiting
[09:38] <seb128> and that's not really a top priority to be honest
[09:38] <zyga> seb128: undestood
[09:38] <zyga> :-)
[09:38] <zyga> seb128: sure
[09:38] <seb128> but thanks for the help
[09:38] <seb128> if you can look wheter hal detect the correct media type
[09:39] <seb128> if not that's a kernel/hal/hardware issue
[09:39] <zyga> seb128: I'll look at that lshal output and notify you if there is anything relevant there
[09:39] <zyga> thanks
[09:40] <seb128> you're welcome
[09:42] <mdz> mdke: no, launchpad bugs get filed in Malone
[09:42] <mdke> mdz, sure, i know that, but do you know where in malone?
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[09:42] <dholbach> hey jbailey 
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[09:43] <mdz> mdke: https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/products/launchpad
[09:43] <jbailey> Heya Daniel! =)
[09:43] <dholbach> :-)
[09:44] <mdke> mdz, i'll try poking around there. at the moment malone is asking me for a linux distribution and source package to file it under
[09:46] <mdke> mdz, ok yes got it, thanks
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[09:47] <dholbach> hey ogra 
[09:47] <ogra> hey dholbach 
[09:52] <dholbach> see you tomorrow
[09:52] <ogra> ciao dholbach 
[09:54] <Burgundavia> elmo, ping
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[09:59] <abelli> ciao
[10:07] <Lathiat> Is there an irc channel for projec tutopia?
[10:07] <Lathiat> like udev, hal, hotplug and stuff?
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[10:12] <GheRivero> res
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[10:20] <zyga> ls
[10:20] <zyga> ... wrong terminal
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[10:29] <Echylo> haha zyga :S
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[10:49] <Burgundavia> I am edit RootSudo to be cleaner. Is this true? --> Using sudo as opposed to gksudo/kdesu can sometimes lead to file ownership problems.
[10:50] <ogra> Burgundavia, http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UsingSudo
[10:50] <ogra> (not yet approved)
[10:51] <Burgundavia> hmm
[10:51] <Burgundavia> ok
[10:51] <ogra> and no, it should be similar as long as you dont use switches in the commandline sudo
[10:51] <Burgundavia> I have mostly edited the wikipage so that it emphasizes sudo as good
[10:51] <Burgundavia> ok
[10:51] <Burgundavia> then I will remove the sentence from the page
[10:52] <ogra> ok
[10:52] <Burgundavia> ok, I significantly rewrote the page
[10:52] <Burgundavia> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RootSudo
[10:52] <Burgundavia> can I get some feedback from a dev?
[10:53] <ogra> Burgundavia, please get in contact with sladen about it, since he has this task on his todo list...
[10:53] <Burgundavia> ok
[10:54] <ogra> oh :(
[10:54] <ogra> you ripped my favorite comment off
[10:55] <ogra> (from stuart bishop)
[10:55] <Burgundavia> me?
[10:56] <lamont_r> ogra: he stole it, or removed it?
[10:56] <ogra> dunno, its gone...
[10:56] <Burgundavia> oh, I gutted all the comments
[10:56] <Burgundavia> I felt that they added nothing to the page
[10:57] <ogra> hmm
[10:57] <Burgundavia> this is supposed to be documentation, not a chat forum
[10:57] <ogra> its a wiki....
[10:58] <Burgundavia> its a doc that happens to be one a wiki
[10:58] <Burgundavia> s/one/on
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[11:00] <ogra> but if it offers the option to add comments, they should stay there..... 
[11:01] <Burgundavia> ogra, I am looked at it from a doctem perspective. Do the comments add to the doc? If they do, then leave them, if they don't then they go
[11:01] <Burgundavia> the less words on the page, the more likely that people are going to read it
[11:02] <ogra> i found the comment from stub one of the best explanations for the use of sudo though...
[11:03] <Burgundavia> ok
[11:03] <Burgundavia> I will try and incorporate it into the doc
[11:04] <ogra> and especially the sudo thing is a heap bigger then the one page, thats why we had a BOF about it in sydney and sladen took the task to review all of the sudo things on the wiki....
[11:05] <Burgundavia> there are more pages than just that one?
[11:06] <Burgundavia> RootSudo is where most people go
[11:06] <Burgundavia> it is also the default place to send people on #ubuntu
[11:06] <ogra> thats ok... but sudo is used and mentioned on many pages 
[11:06] <Burgundavia> true
[11:07] <ogra> the target is to have a clean explanation and to make sure all the other page follow it
[11:07] <ogra> (consistency)
[11:08] <Burgundavia> I just read the comment by stuart
[11:08] <Burgundavia> I don't see anything in the comment that isn't already said in the page
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[11:10] <ogra> password maintenance is mentioned there.... (i dont remember it from the top of my head, its a while ago since i read it)
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[11:10] <ogra> but i often cited it by copying and pasting it in private mails with admins i know for example
[11:11] <ogra> s/cited/quoted
[11:11] <Burgundavia> ok
[11:11] <Burgundavia> I am doing some more work on the page right now
[11:11] <Burgundavia> but generally quotes really don't have a useful place in docs
[11:12] <ogra> Burgundavia, but please get in contact with sladen....
[11:12] <Burgundavia> ok
[11:13] <ogra> and i'm not sure if its right to just wipe out users commets of wiki pages just to make them clearer from a documentation pov....it might upset users...
[11:13] <Burgundavia> hmm
[11:14] <hunger> ogra: I won't mind if my glibberish is removed (or moved)
[11:14] <Burgundavia> does warty have an admin group?
[11:14] <ogra> hunger, you dont... but i remember cases....
[11:15] <Burgundavia> I am thinking about the adding users to sudo part
[11:15] <hunger> ogra: Yes, I took a couple of flames when cleaning up our wiki once, too;-)
[11:15] <Nafallo> Burgundavia, that group was added in hoary AFAIK.
[11:15] <Burgundavia> Nafallo, that is what I thought
[11:15] <Burgundavia> ugh
[11:15] <ogra> hunger, and if you feel its a valuable addon to the page you would be upset if someone just wipes it out without talking to you...
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[11:16] <hunger> ogra: Wrong... I know that I made valuable addons and so I would be wondering about the mental state of whoever removed my stuff:-)
[11:16] <ogra> ...since we encourage people to edit and add to the wiki...
[11:17] <hunger> ogra: Sometimes delusions do help with normal live;-)
[11:17] <hunger> ogra: I'd edit and add way more, but I am too stupid to find things in the Wiki worth editing.
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[11:18] <hunger> ogra: In fact I can not even find my own stuff anymore!
[11:18] <hunger> ogra: Whenever I search the wiki I get exactly no result:-(
=== hunger would like to contribute more, but is too stupid to find out how/where.
[11:20] <ogra> might be a wiki bug, dunno.... anyway, its sladens task to care for the sudo stuff, if he is fine with Burgundavia's edititions its ok... i just wanted to point out that there is a bigger task in the works for it anyway...
[11:20] <Burgundavia> I realize taht
[11:21] <Burgundavia> the page has been bugging me for a long time
[11:21] <Burgundavia> but I hate our wiki
[11:21] <Burgundavia> this is a major event, me editing it
[11:22] <willis> if you've been following hoary development should you reinstall before you start following breezy?  just wondering, i did myself but i'm wondering whether or not to recomend it to other people
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[11:23] <ogra> Burgundavia, its a task of the UdU spec to have a local documentation for sudo/gksudo, if the spec gets approval, i'd like to have you aboard for writing a sane helpfile
[11:23] <Burgundavia> that is what the doc team is for
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[11:24] <hunger> Hey! searching the wiki for ubuntu brought some results.
[11:24] <ogra> Burgundavia, if there is local documentation, you can point people there instead of the wiki :)
[11:25] <Burgundavia> indeed
[11:26] <Burgundavia> ok, take a look now
[11:29] <sm> hunger, what's the problem with search ?
[11:30] <ogra> Burgundavia, it should be a general explanation, but include either the help or pointers to the help of the certain commands (sudo/gksudo)
[11:30] <Burgundavia> ogra, hmm, I am not quite understanding
[11:31] <ogra> Burgundavia, the local documentation described in the spec that is....
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[11:32] <crb> mako: awake?
[11:32] <Burgundavia> are you talking longterm? patching gksudo/kdesu or are you talking additions to the wikipage right now?
[11:33] <mako> crb: yes, but about to take a phonecall
[11:33] <mako> crb: give me a second
[11:33] <crb> sure thing
[11:33] <ogra> Burgundavia, quoting from the udu wikipage:
[11:33] <ogra>  gksudo should have a help button pointing to local documentation that explains the need/usage of sudo and gksudo
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[11:35] <Burgundavia> ok, that is future stuff
[11:35] <Burgundavia> I was wondering about editing the wikipage just this second
[11:36] <ogra>  Status: BrainDump, BreezyGoal, DistroSpecification, DraftSpec
[11:36] <ogra> (breezy goal)
[11:37] <Nafallo> ogra, all things that have Status: BreezyGoal is Breezy Goals? or just the approved stuff?
[11:37] <ogra> has to go from draftspec to editedspec though .... and waits for approval...
[11:37] <ogra> Nafallo, the Approved ones a safe....
[11:38] <Nafallo> ogra, dang. that's what I thought :-). well, enough things to droll at anyway ;-).
[11:38] <ogra> Nafallo, the others might go through several edits before approval...
[11:40] <ogra> cc, do you guys still go on doing the editing ?
[11:48] <Burgundavia> mako, ping
[11:52] <mako> Burgundavia: i'm back
[11:52] <mako> crb: back
[11:52] <Burgundavia> mako, join #ubuntu-doc