[12:02] <kkathman> ok let me know about that approach
[12:03] <blueeel> smouche: dunno really... now i can't umount my cdrom drive... gotta figure that one out first...
[12:04] <kkathman> blueeel: if your icon is still on the desktop, right click and choose eject
[12:05] <blueeel> kkathman: it's not...
[12:05] <kkathman> ahh ok
[12:05] <kkathman> thats the way it worked for me
[12:06] <smouche> well, here come the backports,  sheesh, I hate using backports...
[12:07] <kkathman> hehe
[12:07] <kkathman> just a hastle getting all those public keys
[12:08] <mrmanic> blueeel: have you tried typing "sudo eject /dev/cdrom" into a terminal?
[12:09] <smouche> well, now that I recall, I've got almost everything this script is going for already; I think I ran it and then commented out the extra repos; but I don't understand why I didn't get the JRE...
[12:09] <kkathman> I will go check out that freemind wiki
[12:10] <blueeel> mrmanic: ahh... thanks a lot... i was just about to reboot...
[12:10] <smouche> sheesh, now it's telling me it can't install jave, because it already exists...
[12:10] <mrmanic> blueeel: I feel your pain.  took me a couple of hours to figure out how to unmount and eject my ipod successfully
[12:10] <mrmanic> <-- dumb
[12:11] <smouche> mrmanic, I have no clue how to mount my camera, and I don't feel dumb.  well, not much.
[12:11] <Diablo-D3> mount /camera
[12:12] <Diablo-D3> mwhahaha
[12:12] <Diablo-D3> jk
[12:12] <smouche> i figured it couldn't be that easy.
[12:12] <blueeel> mrmanic: i've got no problems with my ipod... except it got stolen last week...
[12:12] <mrmanic> blueeel: that's a problem.  that sucks.
[12:12] <mrmanic> smouche: does it show up under media:/?
[12:13] <mrmanic> smouche: is your system a laptop?
[12:13] <smouche> yep, laptop
[12:13] <mrmanic> smouche: I use a pcmcia <-> compactflash adapter.
[12:13] <mrmanic> smouche: I find it works perfectly.
[12:14] <mrmanic> then I just slot it into my 1 pcmcia slot
[12:14] <smouche> I'm sure I can do it, just don't know how at them moment.
[12:14] <mrmanic> night blueeel 
[12:14] <mrmanic> smouche: at least for me, as soon as I slotted it in, it figured itself out and showed up in the media kioslave
[12:15] <kkathman> mrmanic: Good day to you sir :)
[12:15] <mrmanic> smouche: then it was just a matter of clicking it to mount it, and right clicking, and choosing unmount to unmount it.
[12:15] <mrmanic> hey kkathman 
[12:15] <smouche> well, this is weird, kkathman -- it's telling me that java already exists.  But apps like opera insist it doesn't.
[12:16] <kkathman> smouche, the freemind page says to just do an install of java-package
[12:16] <kkathman> it mentions "fakeroot" you know what that is?
[12:16] <smouche> nope!
[12:16] <smouche> do they mean sudo?
[12:17] <kkathman> maybe
[12:17] <kkathman> smouche type  java -version in a shell
[12:18] <kkathman> smouche I never installed java and my Opera didnt complain, is your homepage java based?
[12:18] <smouche> well, what do you know, yep, I got it
[12:18] <kkathman> Could be that your opera home page has java on it maybe?
[12:19] <mrmanic> fakeroot and sudo aren't the same.
[12:19] <mrmanic> sudo has root privileges
[12:19] <mrmanic> fakeroot only pretends to have root privileges
[12:19] <smouche> kkathman, that's a possibility, but I think opera gave me that error from the get-go -- whoa!  maybe I had a leftover config file from previous Opera
[12:19] <smouche> I had uninstalled it...
[12:19] <mrmanic> but can generate archives that contain files owned by root.
[12:19] <kkathman> if I was going to do a make,  it would be better to do that with sudo, not fakeroot right mrmanic ?
[12:20] <kkathman> or do I actually use fakeroot?
[12:20] <mrmanic> fakeroot will be more secure.
[12:20] <kkathman> guess I should follow the instructions :)
[12:20] <kkathman> thanks mrmanic :)
[12:20] <mrmanic> if you don't care about security, just use sudo
[12:20] <smouche> anyway, kkathman, I can view the public mindmaps , takes forever for Sun java to load in the browser though.
[12:21] <mrmanic> I don't actually know what I'm talking about, I just glanced at the fakeroot manpage :)
[12:21] <kkathman> mrmanic: the issue is that I got the Java SDK installed, but apparently not the JRE
[12:21] <mrmanic> kkathman: I see.  I can't help you there, friend, I haven't gotten that far on this system yet.
[12:21] <kkathman> mrmanic: not to worry, sir, I appreciate your help all the same :)
[12:21] <smouche> SDK - "sun development kit" ? is that what that is? Weird it didn't bring the JRE in with it
[12:22] <mrmanic> sdk is generally "software development kit"
[12:22] <kkathman> yes
[12:22] <kkathman> yeah I dont think it does
[12:22] <kkathman> freemind is definitely pointing to install the java package
[12:22] <smouche> kkathman, can you see map on this page: http://freemind.sourceforge.net/PublicMaps.html
[12:23] <kkathman> nope
[12:24] <kkathman> says I need to install the JRE of course hehe :)
[12:24] <smouche> hmm, kkathman, I think you might want to try that script I mentioned before.
[12:25] <smouche> It automates everything, much easier than going through the Sun site.
[12:26] <smouche> takes a while to run, and it might try to install stuff you don't want, but I think you can say no to stuff as it goes...
[12:27] <kkathman> Im downloading the JRE now and just following the wiki site for Freemind
[12:27] <smouche> well, I'm happy to say that this java version loads really fast, once you run it the first time.
[12:27] <kkathman> if that doesnt work then I'll go the other route I suppose :)
[12:28] <smouche> here's the link again, in case, kkathman:  http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=22646
[12:28] <kkathman> thanks smouche :)
[12:37] <Tm_T> brb
[12:43] <smouche> mrmanic, I think I may do go with the memory card adaptor strategy myself.
[12:43] <smouche> good suggestion!
[12:44] <kkathman> i'm wondering exactly what that java-package does
[12:44] <smouche> Which one, kkathman?
[12:45] <kkathman> that apt-get install java-package
[12:46] <smouche> don't know how up to date that is...
[12:48] <smouche> Hmmm, I see microsoft is advertising on sourceforge pages; never noticed that before...
[12:49] <kkathman> weird eh??
[12:56] <smouche> well, kkathman, I don't understand this at all.
[12:57] <smouche> I've got good-enough jave to see a map on a webpage -- that used to mean, I had the right version to run freemind myself also, but
[12:57] <smouche> when I installed the deb, I got this garbage:
[12:57] <smouche> freemind depends on j2re1.4 | java2-runtime; however:
[12:57] <smouche>   Package j2re1.4 is not installed.
[12:57] <smouche>   Package java2-runtime is not installed.
[12:57] <smouche>  freemind depends on j2re1.4 | java-virtual-machine; however:
[12:57] <smouche>   Package j2re1.4 is not installed.
[12:57] <smouche>   Package java-virtual-machine is not installed.
[12:57] <smouche> dpkg: error processing freemind (--install):
[12:57] <smouche>  dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
[12:57] <NTolerance> hrm
[12:57] <smouche> sorry to flood!
[12:57] <NTolerance> have you tried the setup scripts on the forums?
[12:57] <NTolerance> that's how i installed java
[12:58] <smouche> NTolerance, yes. and I have the latest JRE installed, I believe.
[12:58] <NTolerance> hm
[12:58] <NTolerance> what page is giving you problems?
[12:59] <smouche> NTolerance, it's a java app I can't install.
[12:59] <NTolerance> ah
[12:59] <smouche> I have java version "1.5.0_02"
[12:59] <NTolerance> yeah, that's the version in the setup scripts
[12:59] <NTolerance> i find this annoying about linux....you have a later version of whatever stuff, yet things won't install unless you have the older version
[01:00] <NTolerance> so you go to install the older version and it won't let you
[01:00] <NTolerance> :(
[01:00] <smouche> That looks like the deal here.  Ah, screw it.
[01:00] <NTolerance> i have all of problems installing python apps on ubuntu
[01:00] <NTolerance> the python on ubuntu has a version of like python-3.3.ubuntu or something
[01:00] <NTolerance> so any program looking for python-3.3 throws a shit fit
[01:00] <smouche> it just pisses me off 'cause I had it working on here before!  previous install though...
[01:01] <NTolerance> well
[01:01] <NTolerance> maybe try removing java 1.5 and finding a package for 1.4?
[01:01] <NTolerance> might be necessary
[01:04] <NTolerance> anyone here having problems with klaptop?
[01:05] <NTolerance> doesn't look like the repositories got updated today  :(
[01:08] <kkathman> NTolerance: can you check that freemind page with me and help me see what to do on one of the steps?
[01:09] <kkathman> Im having probs with understanding...and did you tell me you did a java install?
[01:09] <smouche> kkathman, I have the java 2 runtime.
[01:09] <kkathman> smouche could you go here:  http://freemind.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/FreeMind_on_Linux#On_a_Debian_system
[01:10] <smouche> but freemind install insists I don't.
[01:10] <smouche> ok
[01:10] <kkathman> and help me understand something
[01:11] <smouche> kkathman, I have no idea what they're talking about there.
[01:11] <NTolerance> i do have java installed
[01:11] <NTolerance> but it's version 1.5
[01:11] <NTolerance> not 1.4
[01:12] <smouche> I used the directions on the main download page and did a normal dpkg -- but got errors saying I don't have java, but I do.
[01:12] <smouche> every page I've consulted on installing java has told me something different, so I don't know.
[01:13] <smouche> but I can see the maps, so I should be able to run this thing!
[01:13] <NTolerance> hey, if it works, it works
[01:13] <NTolerance> what exactly are you trying to figure out kkathman 
[01:14] <smouche> kkathman, do you know any other apps we could test this on?  I'm about fed up with freemind! ;-(
[01:16] <Shapord> hi 
[01:16] <NTolerance> omghi2u
[01:16] <smouche> hey, kkathman, this is interesting -- I just opened synaptic, and updated, and now it's trying to bring in some of that missing java stuff...
[01:16] <smouche> fingers crossed...
[01:17] <smouche> it told me I have a broken package...
[01:17] <Shapord> how to, resolution 800x600 56 mhz?, and not 60 Mhz, my monitor dont work
[01:17] <Shapord> in kde 3.4 <o
[01:18] <NTolerance> damn man, what kind of monitor is that?
[01:18] <NTolerance> vintage 1989?
[01:18] <Shapord> jaja
[01:18] <Shapord> is svga max, resolution 800x600 56 Mhz
[01:18] <Shapord> :_(
[01:19] <NTolerance> it's probably in a config file somwhere, be it xorg.conf or some KDE file
[01:19] <NTolerance> but i don't know for sure
[01:19] <Shapord> I triying edit xorg.conf but nothing
[01:19] <Shapord> my problem is edit the Mhz de refresh
[01:20] <NTolerance> right
[01:20] <Shapord> 56 Mhz and not 60 Mhz ;_(
[01:22] <Shapord> I see file xorg.conf and modify 50 70   ..>  50 56 :b
[01:22] <Shapord> but nothing
[01:26] <smouche> kkathman!  I got it.
[01:27] <smouche> I didn't use all that "fakeroot" stuff, but it looks like a combination of that other script with an update in synaptic did the trick.
[01:27] <smouche> btw, kkathman, I got the latest release candidate for freemind, from the sourceforge page, not the one on the wiki
[01:28] <smouche> it looks like a much better version, so far. 
[01:38] <NTolerance> i'll have a Busch to celebrate
[01:38] <NTolerance> so what does freemind do?
[01:44] <smouche> NTolerance: it's sort of a variation on "mindmapper" apps, if you've seen those before.
[01:44] <smouche> best to look at some screen shots, to have an idea:
[01:44] <smouche> just a sec
[01:45] <smouche> http://freemind.sourceforge.net/wiki/
[01:46] <smouche> it's fun to use for brainstorming ideas, or as a kind of freeform pim
[01:47] <smouche> I was very dependant on it in windows; glad to finally have it working in linux
[01:49] <NTolerance> oh
[01:49] <NTolerance> this is like Visio
[01:56] <kkathman> smouche...Im confused as to what that page is telling me
[01:56] <kkathman> it says for me to download a self extracting bin, but then to do a fakeroot on something else
[01:57] <kkathman> I didnt get any instructions on the java-package
[01:57] <kkathman> so Im still a bit out in the cold on it
[01:59] <kkathman> oh well
[02:07] <smouche> kkathman, this is what worked for me:  I ignored that page about the fake root,
[02:07] <smouche> I used the script on ubuntu wiki to install java, or part of it anyway
[02:08] <smouche> I downloaded the freemind rc from sourceforge
[02:08] <smouche> did a dpkg on it,
[02:08] <smouche> got a bunch of errors
[02:08] <smouche> opened synaptic, which very nicely fixed my dependency problems for me
[02:09] <smouche> and then, magically, freemind was there, ready to go.
[02:11] <smouche> dammit, there I am like an idiot talking at kkathman, when he quit!
[02:11] <smouche> doh!
[02:28] <ice_1963> i love kubuntu :0)
[02:39] <Shapord> hi
[02:40] <Shapord> my poblem is my driver the video
[02:40] <Shapord> my video chipset is SIS 661FX/964L , 
[02:41] <Shapord> but my system recognize VESA :/
[02:41] <Shapord> I see xorgcfg in textmode , in section Card, and only dirver ATI and vmware 
[02:41] <Shapord> no more
[02:41] <Shapord> plz help me :_(
[02:48] <fernandotcl> hello
[02:49] <Shapord> hi
[02:49] <fernandotcl> hey Shapord 
[02:49] <fernandotcl> i got a problem... i have alsa set up properly, and artsd is running fine (kde plays bells and suchlike), but amarok won't work :S
[02:50] <Shapord> easy
[02:50] <Shapord> motor engine
[02:50] <fernandotcl> i tried both the arts and the xine engine
[02:50] <Shapord> change for xine 
[02:50] <fernandotcl> none worked :S
[02:50] <Shapord> :o
[02:50] <Shapord> traying other
[02:50] <Shapord> arts
[02:50] <Shapord> or xmms
[02:51] <fernandotcl> hmmm i might try...
[02:51] <fernandotcl> that's rather confusing though, i expected this to work out of the box
[02:53] <smouche_nap> fernandotcl: you might try installing "xine-ui" -- that brings in codecs and such that plain xine engine doesn't, I think
[02:53] <fernandotcl> smouche_nap: hmmm lemme try that...
[02:54] <fernandotcl> i'm installing xine-ui right now
[02:56] <fernandotcl> i tried playing oggs... just to be sure...
[02:57] <fernandotcl> yay it worked!
[02:57] <fernandotcl> many thanks smouche_nap 
[02:57] <smouche_nap> cool!
[02:57] <fernandotcl> cya
[02:57] <smouche_nap> you're welcome, fernandotcl
[02:59] <smouche_nap> I have to stop this habit of talking at people when they've already left.
[04:04] <mikerobi> anyone having troubles with incorrect font sizes?
[04:06] <smouche> mikerobi, only with non-kde apps
[04:06] <smouche> firefox fonts are absurdly small, for example
[04:07] <mikerobi> I just had that problem for the first time
[04:07] <mikerobi> used gnome-control-center to fix
[04:08] <mikerobi> in kde the proportions seem out of wack, the differnece between 10pt and 12pt seems to big, but i could be going crazy
[04:09] <Diablo-D3> actually
[04:09] <Diablo-D3> thats slightly easy to fix
[04:09] <Diablo-D3> use gnome-control-center to set the font size to 72dpi
[04:09] <mikerobi> Diablo-D3: i'm listening
[04:10] <Diablo-D3> kde doesnt set the dpi setting for some stupid reason, and gnome defaults to what your X server is set at
[04:10] <mikerobi> is'nt it supposed to match your monitor or something?
[04:10] <Diablo-D3> nope
[04:10] <Diablo-D3> well, it _can_ match your monitor
[04:11] <Diablo-D3> but I dont think dpi is in EDID
[04:11] <mikerobi> EDID?
[04:11] <Diablo-D3> er, not edid, whatever that vesa information thing is
[04:11] <mikerobi> I set it to 72, now gnome fonts are way to small
[04:12] <Diablo-D3> set your gnome fonts to the same size your kde ones have
[04:12] <narg_> eheheh.... you know your in trouble when a program ignored sigkill... :p
[04:12] <Diablo-D3> narg_: probably locked by the kernel
[04:12] <Diablo-D3> narg_: ie, its blocked
[04:12] <narg_> hrm, I guess
[04:12] <narg_> nothing I can do then
[04:12] <narg_> my cds going to be in there for a long time methinks :p
[04:13] <Diablo-D3> well,  you _could_ reboot
[04:13] <mikerobi> Diablo-D3: gtk fonts are still 2 small
[04:13] <narg_> well, thats last resort
[04:13] <Diablo-D3> mikerobi: how odd
[04:13] <narg_> I happen to live my uptime, and I dislike killing it
[04:13] <narg_> like*
[04:13] <Diablo-D3> mikerobi: try putting the dpi at 100
[04:13] <narg_> If it doesnt let me eject in 5 min, ill reboot though
[04:14] <mikerobi> Diablo-D3: thanks
[04:14] <Diablo-D3> mikerobi: 72 and 100 are magic DPIs in X
[04:14] <Diablo-D3> same way 96 is in windows
[04:14] <mikerobi> it was set to 96 originally
[04:15] <Diablo-D3> yeah, I have no clue why gnome tries that
[04:15] <Diablo-D3> its a stupid choice, X defaults to neither
[04:15] <Diablo-D3> er, X defaults to 72 or 100, never 96
[04:15] <mikerobi> I think its an X thing, my monitor went to power save, and the fonts were different when it woke up
[04:15] <Diablo-D3> er, woah
[04:15] <mikerobi> or maybe back to that crazy thing
[04:15] <Diablo-D3> thats a severe retardation thing imo.
[04:16] <chavo> mikerobi, put -> Xft.dpi: 100 , in ~/.Xresources that will set the dpi to 100 when X starts
[04:16] <narg_> heh, these programs dont want to give up. Going down for a boot.
[04:17] <Diablo-D3> chavo: yeah, but that shouldnt be required =/
[04:18] <mikerobi> When i upgraded my system from fedora i was not happy to find my kde profile folders were wiped clean when I logged on the first time
[04:18] <chavo> Diablo-D3, probably not, but I've had it in mine for a long time.
[04:19] <Diablo-D3> mikerobi: probably some anti-fedora protection scheme
[04:19] <mikerobi> seriously?
[04:20] <Diablo-D3> remember, fedora is an evil cancer in the linux community!
[04:20] <Diablo-D3> it needs to be wiped out at all costs!
[04:20] <Diablo-D3> if you're using fedora, the terrorists have already won!
[04:20] <mikerobi> well those folders date back to my mandrake days
[04:21] <chavo> mikerobi, I had some issues with kde settings when I upgraded to 3.4.
[04:22] <chavo> I was running mandrake for a while also.
[04:23] <mikerobi> mandrake sold out, to who I'm not sure, but it went south pretty quickly
[04:23] <mikerobi> sold out "metaphorically"
[04:23] <mikerobi> no one should have to pay for community support
[04:24] <chavo> Yeah, I don't know what's going on over there, but I used Mandrake for a long time and finally had to get away.
[04:24] <mikerobi> I can't remember what it was exactly but i uncovered somethign crippled in my last mandrake install
[04:26] <mikerobi> I there there were source files not included, and i needed them to make some changes or something, can't remember exactly but i was mad as hell.
[04:27] <mikerobi> I there there (only americans commint english atrocities like that)
[04:32] <pussfeller> i could never get mandrake to update out of the box using their won tools
[04:36] <NTolerance> fedora's update manager is terrible
[04:36] <NTolerance> i installed it like 3 times and it crashed on me every time
[04:37] <pussfeller> fc3 updated for a while, and then started giving me troubles
[04:38] <NTolerance> redhat's servers are really slow
[04:38] <pussfeller> i personally think... if gentoo had packages as an option, it would be the best
[04:38] <NTolerance> i think that's what may have been causing the lockups
[04:38] <pussfeller> but not for the general public in its present focus
[04:38] <NTolerance> i don't have any experience with gentoo, but i don't like compiling things that much
[04:38] <chavo> there are packages available in Gentoo
[04:39] <pussfeller> since when
[04:39] <NTolerance> i will admit though that the Gentoo forums have a good bit of information
[04:39] <NTolerance> on some of my wild goose chases in Linux i end up there
[04:39] <pussfeller> the gentoo user base tends to be alot more... hands on
[04:39] <mikerobi> NTolerance: i was running fc2
[04:40] <mikerobi> but it was heavily modified
[04:40] <NTolerance> i used fc3
[04:40] <mikerobi> I replaced a lot of the included packages
[04:40] <pussfeller> the tips and tricks section is pretty awesome on the gentoo forums
[04:41] <NTolerance> ubuntu's is great as well....i really liked Mepis but its forums and documentation are not even close
[04:42] <NTolerance> anyone have any problems with firefox closing when you change desktops?
[04:43] <Cowlike> NTolerance: i have no problems at all with FF
[04:43] <mikerobi> Cowlike: do you use thunderbird as well?
[04:43] <Cowlike> mikerobi: no   kmail
[04:44] <Cowlike> mikerobi: i used thunderbird at work but that's on win xp
[04:44] <mikerobi> The thunderbird package cant' find my profile, but the official mozilla release works fine
[04:44] <NTolerance> does anyone know of an alternative to Klaptop?
[04:45] <pussfeller> glaptop?
[04:45] <NTolerance> will it run in the KDE systray?
[04:45] <Cowlike> mikerobi: wouldn't they be using different dirs for the profile? (mozilla and thunderbird)
[04:45] <pussfeller> heh i was j/k
[04:45] <NTolerance> damnit
[04:46] <mikerobi> Cowlike: the thunderbird release from the mozilla web site
[04:46] <mikerobi> has anyone here been haven't trouble with there freenode connection?
[04:46] <Cowlike> mikerobi: ahh ok
[04:46] <NTolerance> mine has been fine
[04:47] <Cowlike> my freenode connection never goes down
[04:47] <pussfeller> jsut afew netsplits
[04:47] <pussfeller> dang it
[04:47] <mikerobi> of late I have been having trobles, but oftc.net is fine
[04:48] <Cowlike> does anyone successfully use acpi hibernate on their laptop? I mean from ubuntu
[04:49] <NTolerance> no, i had problems with resuming
[04:49] <NTolerance> i've had nothing but problems with klaptop
[04:49] <Cowlike> mine crashes on resume :(
[04:49] <NTolerance> slow response, crashing, intermittantly dimming my screen, shutting down my laptop, etc
[04:49] <Cowlike> worked under Suse though
[04:49] <NTolerance> it's a kubuntu thing probably
[04:50] <NTolerance> my only option now is to disable klaptop and watch my battery status in torsmo
[04:50] <NTolerance> i haven't found an alternative
[04:50] <Cowlike> yeah but sux not to be able to save your current state
[04:50] <NTolerance> there's a battery plugin for kxdocker but i can't get it to compile
[04:50] <Cowlike> i don't care about watching the battery, just want to hibernate when done working
[04:51] <NTolerance> i would like the opposite
[04:51] <NTolerance> but we both need a better implementation
[04:51] <NTolerance> i find it hard to believe that there's only one laptop program for KDE
[04:51] <Cowlike> i mean, i care about how low the batter is :).... main thing though is i need to hibernate
[04:57] <mikerobi> NTolerance: uninstall the package and complie it from the latest release
[04:59] <NTolerance> klaptop?
[04:59] <mikerobi> yes
[04:59] <NTolerance> a novel idea
[05:00] <NTolerance> is the latest version on sourceforge?
[05:00] <NTolerance> a google search is giving me random results
[05:00] <mikerobi> i wouldn't now, that was my generall advice for all misbehaving packages
[05:00] <NTolerance> worth a shot
[05:01] <mikerobi> ah, it looks like it is part of kdeutils
[05:01] <NTolerance> which, IIRC, will bust my KDE if i upgrade....with the whole kdelibs issue, right?
[05:02] <mikerobi> likely, but if you download and comple kdeutils you can probably install the klaptop files by hand
[05:03] <NTolerance> i can compile and install packages, but i don't know how to pick stuff out of a package and just install one thing
[05:03] <mrmanic> is there a major issue with jumping from running KDE CVS and KDE 3.4?
[05:04] <mikerobi> mrmanic: going back in time is generally more dangerous than going forward
[05:04] <NTolerance> from what i can tell kdeutils doesn't have anything in it that would cripple my system if i uninstalled it
[05:04] <NTolerance> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/kde/kdeutils
[05:05] <NTolerance> i wonder if my KDE would survive if i uninstalled it with synaptic
[05:05] <mrmanic> mikerobi: is this life advice or kde advice?
[05:06] <mikerobi> mrmanic: i'm not sure i reread your question, are you going from cvs to 3.4?
[05:07] <mrmanic> I'm thinking of running CVS, but CVS breaks from time to time, so I may jump back to 3.4 in the interim, you know?
[05:07] <Quinn_Storm> mrmanic: why not install both with different prefixes
[05:07] <Quinn_Storm> mrmanic: ?
[05:07] <mrmanic> Quinn_Storm: I'd ideally like to be able to work off of the same .kde dir.
[05:08] <Quinn_Storm> mrmanic: you can use the same .kde with no trouble if you can alter $PATH and $KDEDIR on session start to point to, for example, /opt/kde/cvs/ or /opt/kde/3.4/
[05:08] <mikerobi> NTolerance: I have an idea, stay posted
[05:09] <mrmanic> Quinn_Storm: oh yeah.  that's simple enough.  I can do that easily enough.  Mostly I just want to make sure that moving back and forth won't destroy my kde settings.
[05:09] <NTolerance> ok
[05:09] <mrmanic> I guess I'll have to back up before jumping back.
[05:09] <NTolerance> kdeutils doesn't look like it it depends on kdelibs
[05:09] <NTolerance> according to synaptic
[05:09] <Quinn_Storm> mrmanic: it shouldn't unless a kde cvs bug b0rks your settings
[05:09] <Quinn_Storm> but yeah backups are a good idea
[05:10] <mrmanic> Quinn_Storm: thanks for the info
[05:12] <Quinn_Storm> mrmanic: sure
[05:14] <mikerobi> NTolerance: if you get a daily snapshot or the cvs release you can
[05:14] <mikerobi> ./configure; cd klaptopdeamon; sudo make install
[05:14] <NTolerance> ah
[05:14] <mikerobi> that will only compile and install klaptop and it should do it write on top of the version already installed
[05:14] <NTolerance> nice
[05:15] <mikerobi> you might need to run autoconf first to generate the configure script
[05:16] <NTolerance> ok, i'm hunting down the source now
[05:16] <mikerobi> ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/unstable/snapshots/
[05:16] <mikerobi> or cvs
[05:17] <mikerobi> the last official release of kdeutils is 3.4 which i presume you have
[05:17] <NTolerance> yeah
[05:17] <whiskers> man i can't believe they have sdlbasic for linux now....darkbasic for windows was just getting noticed and now sdlbasic for linux is going to wipe it out
[05:18] <smouche> Cowlike, I'm about to try hibernating with this script I found here:
[05:18] <smouche> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-users/2005-March/000033.html
[05:18] <smouche> If it blows up my computer, I'll let you know
[05:18] <Cowlike> smouche: thank for the tip
[05:18] <Cowlike> i'm watching :)
[05:19] <smouche> er, actually, I guess I'll only be able to let you know if it - doesn't - blow it up
[05:19] <NTolerance> let me know too
[05:19] <Cowlike> lol
[05:19] <smouche> see you in a minute or two, I hope...
[05:19] <whiskers> who in the world came up with sdlbasic
[05:20] <Cowlike> I think the monks on the Holy Mountain did
[05:20] <whiskers> Cowlike, hard to say
[05:20] <Cowlike> no, it's for sure
[05:20] <Cowlike> they had some help from Bill Gates but they eventually did it
[05:22] <whiskers> these guys don't miss a thing....darkbasic for the dark side Windows platform was just getting some attention
[05:22] <whiskers> and now these guys already have dark basic with multimedia stuff
[05:22] <whiskers> sdlbasic
[05:23] <Cowlike> they wrote it with Visual C++
[05:23] <whiskers> these people don't miss anything
[05:23] <whiskers> down to the smallest details of what MS has
[05:24] <whiskers> how are those people who spent years designing the proprietary darkbasic for the darkside ever going to charge money for their product when everybody else can get sdlbasic for free
[05:25] <Cowlike> because sdlbasic is buggy as hell? personally i think it's bill g's modules that are responsible for most of the problems
[05:25] <whiskers> Cowlike, did they put MS stuff in it
[05:25] <whiskers> Cowlike, i haven't really looked into it
[05:26] <Cowlike> well look into it
[05:26] <whiskers> Cowlike, i am too tired.
[05:26] <smouche> Cowlike: well, it didn't blow me up, but it's not working as advertised either.  It refuses to let me shut down; just ends my session and sends me to the log-in screen.
[05:26] <whiskers> Cowlike, i don't really give a damn who takes over the world ...whether its MS or IBM....it is just none of my business
[05:27] <Cowlike> that's good, no sense sacrificing yourself to the gods
[05:28] <Cowlike> NTolerance: i don't see how that script is going to work. all it does is run the hibernate script from ubuntu
[05:31] <whiskers> all i am saying is who in the world is going to pay for darkbasic when they can get sdlbasic for free
[05:32] <Cowlike> all i am saying is  because sdlbasic is buggy as hell? personally i think it's bill g's modules that are responsible for most of the problems
[05:33] <agnes> hey all!
[05:33] <agnes> is there a way to configure my network cards in kubuntu?
[05:34] <whiskers> has anybody experimented with sdlbasic...can they get these kinds of effects...
[05:34] <whiskers> http://darkbasic.thegamecreators.com/
[05:35] <whiskers> all those years to develop darkbasic for the darkside and now they are going to be blown away by sdlbasic for free
[05:37] <whiskers> i am even wondering if sdlbasic can use darkbasic code
[05:37] <_brian_>  Hey, I just installed kubuntu and it detected my mx1000, I was very happy untill I used my mouse, it is very glitchy. I have went into the control panel and reduced the acceleration, but this has not helped. What can I do to fix this?
[05:37] <Diablo-D3> ditch your mouse
[05:38] <Diablo-D3> the mx1000 is, sadly, not compliant with, well, anything
[05:38] <_brian_>  Hm.. I had ubuntu on my notebook (not kubuntu), and it was very good.
[05:38] <_brian_>  In windows, it is very good as well.
[05:39] <_brian_>  Ubuntu didn't even detect the mx1000 which is the funniest part.
[05:39] <kkathman> howdy all :)
[05:39] <Diablo-D3> _brian_: hint: ubuntu and kubuntu are the same thing
[05:40] <agnes> odd.. where is the kubuntu equivalent of the Ubuntu network configuration tool?
[05:40] <Diablo-D3> agnes: there isnt one
[05:40] <agnes> or, for that matter, what's the name of that tool so that I can install it or apt-get it?
[05:40] <Diablo-D3> agnes: just use the ubuntu network configuration tool
[05:40] <Diablo-D3> hrm. name.
[05:40] <_brian_>   oh wait, ubuntu was on my notebook.
[05:40] <agnes> Diablo-D3: what's it called?
[05:40] <_brian_>  Not mx1000
[05:40] <Diablo-D3> um.
[05:40] <_brian_>  It says I can change the resolution per inch or something, but I need to contact the manual.?
[05:40] <_brian_> Which manual is it refferring to, and why is thi shappenign
[05:40] <Diablo-D3> agnes: network-admin
[05:40] <Diablo-D3> agnes: no clue what package its in
[05:40] <agnes> Diablo-D3: thank you kindly
[05:40] <kkathman> howdy Diablo-D3  :)
[05:41] <Cowlike> agnes: is what you need on the Control Center app?
[05:41] <kkathman> and there's Cowlike :)
[05:41] <agnes> Cowlike: Don't know.. Basically, I configured pppoeconf, but I want to go back to regular dhcp
[05:41] <Cowlike> agnes: check it out
[05:42] <Cowlike> hi kkathman :)
[05:42] <agnes> Cowlike: it really doesn't seem to be.. it doesn't recognize at all that PPPOE is installed..
[05:42] <whiskers> man ....all those years to develop darkbasic...all down the drain
[05:43] <Cowlike> agnes, can you just uninstall it and reconfigure your adapter?
[05:43] <agnes> uninstall pppoe?
[05:43] <Cowlike> y
[05:43] <agnes> Cowlike: how do I reconfigure the adapter?
[05:43] <Cowlike> ifconfig? Control Center?
[05:43] <agnes> Cowlike: the issue is that I want to keep pppoe there in the long-term, and that seems like a *terrible* hack.
[05:43] <Diablo-D3> by reinstalling windows
[05:44] <agnes> cow: You're kidding.. 
[05:44] <agnes> Diablo-D3: hehe : )
[05:44] <Cowlike> :)
[05:44] <agnes> Cowlike: that's like the stone age. Not in modern times.. there has to be *something* like drakconf or yast or whatever..
[05:44] <agnes> I can't find what package that network-admin is in..
[05:44] <_brian_>  Hey, what text editors were instlaled with kubuntu and in the start menu, where are they located (Just wanna do some C work.. need a text editor, lol)
[05:45] <Cowlike> agnes: dunno
[05:45] <Diablo-D3> you _could_ just edit shit in /etc/networks/ by hand
[05:45] <Diablo-D3> you _could_ just edit shit in /etc/network/ by hand
[05:45] <_brian_> Diablo
[05:45] <_brian_> What text editor is installed with kubuntu?
[05:45] <whiskers> oh well...i am tired...i am fairly worn out on computers...and now the dern sdlbasic people are going to cause real problems with the darkbasic people
[05:45] <Diablo-D3> hint: its called /etc/network/interfaces
[05:45] <Diablo-D3> _brian_: I'd hope vim
[05:45] <Diablo-D3> otherwise kubuntu is quite broken
[05:46] <_brian_>  Wheres vim?
[05:46] <_brian_>  Located in start bar.
[05:46] <Diablo-D3> dude, just open a terminal and type vim
[05:46] <_brian_> oh, k.
[05:46] <_brian_> my bad
[05:46] <Cowlike> if you're trying to run vi through a console, you might be in trouble...
[05:46] <mikerobi> whiskers: sdlbasic registered at sourceforge 2 years ago
[05:46] <Cowlike> i mean through the menu
[05:46] <_brian_>  Damn.
[05:47] <_brian_> I don't wanna run vim in konsole.
[05:47] <Diablo-D3> Cowlike: you'd assume it'd open a term...
[05:47] <_brian_> Aern't here any easy text editors like notepad in windows in kubuntu?
[05:47] <Diablo-D3> _brian_: apt-get install gvim
[05:47] <Diablo-D3> well, theres kedit
[05:47] <Cowlike> Diablo-D3: i mean, he is in trouble if he doesn't even know what vi is
[05:47] <Diablo-D3> or kwrite
[05:47] <Diablo-D3> or kate
[05:47] <Diablo-D3> Cowlike: ahh, he has to learn some time though
[05:47] <Cowlike> if he never thought to do anything other than through the menu, he's gonna choke on vi :)
[05:48] <_brian_>  oh crap.
[05:48] <_brian_>  I remember, I have to create a root user now.
[05:48] <_brian_>  What documentation apge was that on?
[05:48] <Diablo-D3> No you dont
[05:48] <_brian_>  I forgot howe to d it already, lol.
[05:48] <_brian_>  can't apt-get w/o root
[05:48] <_brian_> :P
[05:48] <Diablo-D3> Just sudo.
[05:49] <_brian_> how do I create root anyway?
[05:49] <Cowlike> he'd be better off with kate
[05:49] <Diablo-D3> You don't.
[05:49] <shapord> yep my problem end
[05:49] <Diablo-D3> Root is bad.
[05:49] <shapord> :D
[05:49] <_brian_>  Diablo..
[05:49] <Diablo-D3> Its doublebad ungood.
[05:49] <_brian_>  I didn't ask for what or what not it is, I asked how?
[05:49] <Diablo-D3> And I told you to get a clue.
[05:49] <_brian_> Damnit.
[05:49] <Cowlike> there is already a root account
[05:50] <_brian_> No, i'm pretty sure I had to create one for my notebook w/ ubuntu.
[05:50] <Diablo-D3> And its stupid to do so
[05:50] <Cowlike> no you don't, you just have to set the password
[05:50] <Diablo-D3> sudo is godly
[05:50] <_brian_>  Oh, yeah. Maybe that was it.
[05:50] <_brian_>  How do I set password?
[05:50] <Cowlike> sudo passwd root
[05:50] <Diablo-D3> all ph33r the holy sudo
[05:50] <Diablo-D3> Cowlike: you're actually letting him go along with this?
[05:50] <Cowlike> haha
[05:51] <Cowlike> sure, why not?  it's all good :)
[05:51] <Cowlike> he'll prolly just end up trashing the entire os within a week anyway. it's a learning experience :)
[05:51] <agnes> phew..
[05:51] <agnes> network-admin was in gnome-system-tools.
[05:51] <_brian_>  Cowlike.
[05:51] <agnes> glad that's over..
[05:51] <_brian_>  I'm only using it cause I can't get gcc to work in windows.
[05:52] <_brian_> =)
[05:52] <_brian_>  I probably should had just tried out freebsd or sometihng, but the idiot me usually makes bad mistakes.
[05:52] <Diablo-D3> Cowlike: ... you can trash linux?
[05:52] <Cowlike> indeed you can
[05:52] <Cowlike> sudo rm /etc/*
[05:53] <Diablo-D3> I've booted systems with that done
[05:53] <Cowlike> ok, then delete the kernel image :)
[05:53] <_brian_>  God damn this is glitchy.
[05:53] <_brian_>  Mx1000 is near impossible to use, lol.
[05:53] <_brian_>  I'll dump this distro just for that, lol.
[05:54] <Diablo-D3> Cowlike: nope, still booted it
[05:54] <Cowlike> what, with a boot disk?  :
[05:54] <Diablo-D3> no, they forgot to delete linux.old
[05:54] <Cowlike> hehe
[05:54] <Cowlike> nice
[05:54] <Cowlike> but let a noob try that
[05:54] <_brian_>  Wait..
[05:54] <_brian_> The command gcc in konsole doens't work?
[05:55] <_brian_> Oh crap?
[05:55] <_brian_>  Hm.. maybe I need a package installed or something?
[05:55] <Diablo-D3> Cowlike: yeah, but why would a noob need root?
[05:55] <crimsun> build-essential, _brian_ 
[05:55] <Diablo-D3> _brian_: apt-get install afuckingclue
[05:55] <_brian_>  Diablo.. calm down.
[05:55] <_brian_>  Christ, lol, i'm here to learn, i'm not intelligent with nix, and if you can't deal with people like me, why are you in a support channel?
[05:55] <_brian_>  Heh.
[05:56] <_agnes> last question: How do I disable a service?
[05:56] <_brian_> build-essential did not work crimsun 
[05:56] <Diablo-D3> We have... A MANUAL!
[05:56] <Diablo-D3> (and the holy chior sings)
[05:56] <crimsun> _brian_: what precisely are you trying to do?
[05:56] <_brian_>  Compile a lil c application I wrotre.
[05:56] <_brian_> Wrote*
[05:56] <Diablo-D3> if he says "build a kernel" I will kill him
[05:56] <_brian_>  I thought the cmd was either gcc or cc?
[05:57] <crimsun> _brian_: does it depend on any other libs?
[05:57] <_brian_>  No Diablo, i've been there with gentoo.
[05:57] <_brian_> HAHAHAHAH
[05:57] <Diablo-D3> apt-get install gcc
[05:57] <_brian_>  Not sure crim.
[05:57] <Diablo-D3> Seriously.
[05:57] <_brian_> damna
[05:57] <_brian_> apt-get kicks ass
[05:57] <crimsun> _brian_: installing build-essential will take care of gcc, g++, make, and libc6-dev
[05:57] <_brian_> crazy cmd
[05:57] <Diablo-D3> crimsun: except thats not the name
[05:58] <crimsun> Diablo-D3: what isn't what name?
[05:58] <Diablo-D3> oh wait it is
[05:58] <Diablo-D3> its not plural
[05:59] <Diablo-D3> speaking of which, why doesnt xchat have tab completion for package names yet?
[05:59] <_brian_>  Woohoo!
[05:59] <_brian_>  It worked!! it worked!!
[05:59] <_brian_> =D\
[05:59] <_brian_> sample file worked ==DDD
[05:59] <_brian_> *cheers in  happiness*
[06:00] <_brian_>  This mouse is really bugging me, crimsun, is there any fixes?
[06:00] <crimsun> _brian_: I haven't read scrollback, sec.
[06:00] <_brian_>  To change the last part of settings, it told me to consult the "manual"
[06:00] <Diablo-D3> _brian_: dude, I told you to get rid of it
[06:01] <Diablo-D3> mx1000s are broken on everything but windows
[06:01] <Diablo-D3> they simply arent usb hid compliant
[06:02] <chris> new here to the world of linux. how the heck can i install mozilla on kubuntu? i have downloaded the package and tried everything i know. any help out there?
[06:02] <crimsun> _brian_: you have to alter which protocol the mouse driver is using in addition to telling it the # of buttons
[06:03] <crimsun> _brian_: use the "evdev" protocol option
[06:03] <_brian_>  Crimsun, you have heardm e wrong.
[06:03] <_brian_>  I do not have a button problem, or care.
[06:03] <_brian_>  It's that it's very glitchy movement.
[06:03] <_brian_>  I decreased the acceleration, which did nto help much.
[06:03] <_brian_> Seems way too sensitive as well.
[06:03] <crimsun> _brian_: that's precisely what I'm addressing
[06:04] <_brian_>  Oh?
[06:04] <_brian_>  It's very ahrd for me to get around atm.
[06:04] <crimsun> _brian_: the standard mouse driver protocol doesn't use the kernel's evdev interface
[06:04] <crimsun> _brian_: hence the horrid "action"
[06:04] <Diablo-D3> okay people.
[06:04] <Diablo-D3> Lets try this again.
[06:04] <Diablo-D3> the mx1000 is officially on Linus's shit list
[06:05] <Diablo-D3> for being a fucking retarded peice of hardware that will never work right on any sane system that requires complete usb hid compliancy.
[06:05] <Diablo-D3> grep the lkml if you don't believe me
[06:05] <crimsun> Diablo-D3: there are many pieces of crap that the kernel supports
[06:05] <crimsun> the mx1000 _does_ work
[06:05] <Diablo-D3> yeah, but those peices of crap tend to work.
[06:06] <Diablo-D3> the mx1000 doesnt under linux
[06:06] <Diablo-D3> it has the exact same problem _brian_ is describing
[06:06] <Diablo-D3> its been reported seperately about 5 times now on the lkml
[06:06] <Diablo-D3> and countless times on distro specific bug trackers
[06:06] <crimsun> even with the evdev driver?
[06:06] <_brian_>  MX1000 is a very good mouse.
[06:06] <crimsun> s/driver/protocol/
[06:07] <_brian_>  I hate to break it to you, but it is the best damn gaming mouse i've ever used seen the razor boomerslang I beleive it is called.
[06:07] <Diablo-D3> heh
[06:07] <Diablo-D3> if you need a special mouse to game, you suck at gaming.
[06:07] <_brian_>  Maybe you need to go try one out yourself.
[06:07] <_brian_>  Hm.. you play diablo?
[06:07] <Diablo-D3> I use an el cheapo optical mouse that cost me a total of $10
[06:07] <Diablo-D3> nope, I hate diablo
[06:07] <_brian_>  Then wtf is with ur name?
[06:08] <Diablo-D3> I also hate blizzard for using my irc nick without authorization
[06:08] <Diablo-D3> my irc nick is older than blizzard itself.
[06:09] <Diablo-D3> And I wish people would quit trying to associate me with that lame nethack clone
[06:09] <_brian_>  lol?
[06:09] <_brian_>  Anyway, blizzard games are very good regardless =).
[06:09] <Diablo-D3> Not really.
[06:10] <Diablo-D3> Never once have I been impressed with a blizzard game.
[06:10] <_brian_> wtf
[06:10] <_brian_> dude
[06:10] <_brian_> i compiled this 2nd test app i wrote
[06:10] <_brian_> and it says "premission not allowed"
[06:10] <_brian_> when I tryo pening it
[06:10] <_brian_> premission denied*
[06:10] <Diablo-D3> chmod +x yourapp
[06:11] <_brian_>  Hm.. what does that do (when I run this, it's actualyl supose to show the stuff in temrinal)
[06:11] <_brian_> anyway, I did chmod +x ./add.c
[06:11] <Diablo-D3> it allows you to execute your app
[06:11] <_brian_> hmm
[06:11] <Diablo-D3> ...
[06:12] <_brian_> ./add.c: line 3: syntax error near unexpected token `('
[06:12] <_brian_> ./add.c: line 3: `int main()'
[06:12] <Diablo-D3> I said yourapp
[06:12] <_brian_> lol
[06:12] <_brian_> yeah
[06:12] <Diablo-D3> not yourapp.c
[06:12] <_brian_> wasn't trying to run an app
[06:12] <_brian_> =)
[06:12] <_brian_> thats prolly why i got that error
[06:12] <Diablo-D3> anyone have a url for esr's "dont ask stupid questions" doc?
[06:13] <_brian_> oops
[06:13] <_brian_> i didn't compile it right
[06:13] <_brian_> :P
[06:13] <Diablo-D3> _brian_ needs to read it a few times
[06:13] <_brian_> it's not my fault i'm slow
[06:13] <_brian_> *pity on himself*
[06:14] <Diablo-D3> well, its not your fault, apparently schools dont teach basic reading skills in school anymore
[06:15] <Diablo-D3> afk
[07:39] <kkathman> ola all :)
[07:40] <mrmanic> aloha kkathman 
[07:40] <mrmanic> it's pretty quiet tonight
[07:41] <kkathman> howdy there mrmanic!  Yes it seems quite quiet indeed!
[07:44] <mrmanic> how do I reconfigure my laptop to NOT use fglrx?
[07:44] <mrmanic> :\
[07:45] <kkathman> hmmm I have no idea personally
[09:24] <verden01> Hi
[09:24] <verden01> Has anyone installed KDE the full version in kubuntu?
[09:25] <harsha_> yeah
[09:25] <harsha_> verden01
[09:25] <harsha_> what ur problem with KDE in kubuntu
[09:25] <harsha_> whats ur problem with KDE in kubuntu
[09:25] <verden01> is it better than kde tha tinstalls with kubuntu
[09:26] <harsha_> no
[09:26] <harsha_> the KDE with kubuntu is better
[09:26] <harsha_> dont bother upgrading and wastin ur bandwidth
[09:27] <verden01> ok i don't have a problem but i just read an email where someone suggested that tthey thought it was better to install the full version
[09:27] <harsha_> naa
[09:27] <harsha_> its not worth wasting the bandwidth
[09:27] <verden01> cool thanx
[09:28] <verden01> brb
[09:37] <gibarian> Help, my KDE is totally botched
[09:38] <gibarian> anyone have experience with kynaptic upgrades gone totally wrong?
[09:41] <verden01> not here
[09:41] <verden01> haggai, do you have ubuntu-deskop installed with kubuntu?
[09:41] <verden01> harsha
[09:42] <verden01> sorry haggai
[09:53] <luke> hey does anyone know where to find some howtos on making your own mouse cursors in linux?
[09:58] <verden01> no sorry luke
[09:59] <verden01> look in the ubuntu forums ??
[10:00] <luke> yup[ am doing
[10:18] <verden01> has anyone installed xfce4 on kubuntu?
[10:24] <transgress> okay i'm wondering... was it gnome in ubuntu that automatically mounted dvd's and cd's?
[10:24] <transgress> because i kind of liked that... 
[10:24] <crimsun> yes
[10:25] <crimsun> that's handled by gnome-volume-manager
[10:25] <crimsun> verden01: yes, why?
[10:26] <transgress> ah i see
[10:26] <transgress> anyway to simulate that in kde?  i mean i suppose it isn't that big of a deal... my lappy can just mock my desktop ;)
[10:28] <verden01> crimsun i was wondering how good it was?
[10:29] <crimsun> verden01: "good"? what qualifications do you have?
[10:29] <verden01> ???????????????????
[10:29] <crimsun> verden01: "good" is a subjective adjective
[10:29] <crimsun> verden01: my bar for "good" differs from yours
[10:30] <verden01> oh ok so we can't just have a good ol discussion here  :)
[10:30] <verden01> ok how in your opinion does oit perform?
[10:30] <verden01> it
[10:30] <crimsun> well you haven't exactly told me what you're looking for in a "good" desktop environment ;)
[10:30] <crimsun> it's the fastest of the three major ones (GNOME, KDE, Xfce)
[10:31] <crimsun> the speed doesn't come from sacrificing features but rather stricter modularisation
[10:31] <verden01> i like trying out new desktops to see how they differ from one another 
[10:31] <crimsun> KDE's probably the closest to Windows
[10:31] <crimsun> Xfce's probably the furthest
[10:32] <verden01> yeah
[10:32] <verden01> ok
[10:32] <verden01> and gnome is inbetween?
[10:32] <transgress> i always felt gnome was closer to windows... but that's just my opinion
[10:32] <crimsun> (obviously I have a soft spot for Xfce, since I'm part of the MOTUXfce team)
[10:33] <transgress> xfce is built with gtk right?
[10:33] <verden01> well everyone has a different opinion 
[10:33] <crimsun> verden01: imo, yes. Granted, being "closest" to Windows isn't necessarily a bad thing. For instance, in KDE one can count on a consistent interface and presentation.
[10:33] <crimsun> transgress: gtk2, yes. We built it against 2.6 for Hoary.
[10:34] <verden01> well KDE is very easy for Windows users to use
[10:34] <crimsun> KDE is very easy for everyone to use, which I consider a boon.
[10:34] <verden01> and if thats what a usable desktop is about then 
[10:34] <verden01> it should be good for people to migrate to Linux
[10:35] <crimsun> I certainly hope so =)
[10:35] <crimsun> I'd hate to have a bevy of difficult-to-use desktop environments =)
[10:35] <verden01> but the thing i like about linux is that i can choose what desktop i use
[10:36] <crimsun> yep, choice is a Good Thing
[10:36] <verden01> crimsun, by the way i've been using Linux mainly Debian for about 4 years now and no it doesn't mean i'm anywhere an expert  :)
[10:37] <crimsun> verden01: that's ok; we each explore at differing paces
[10:37] <error403> could someone please tell me what command i need to run to compile the kernel under Kubuntu, after i have gone through the configuration?
[10:38] <crimsun> error403: presuming you're using the Ubuntu compile infrastructure, ,,debuild binary''
[10:38] <crimsun> verden01: for instance, I used blackbox solely for nearly 5 years
[10:39] <verden01> as far as qualifications are concerned i'm just an ordinary user who has no computer qualifications at all apart from experience  . I'm a professional Firefighter tho , does that count :)
[10:39] <error403> crimsun: i get "-bash: debuild: command not found"
[10:39] <error403> :/
[10:39] <error403> does "make all modules_install install" not do the trick?
[10:40] <error403> how about the "make-kpkg kernel-image"
[10:41] <crimsun> error403: you could use kernel-package, yes
[10:41] <error403> and then what?
[10:42] <error403> dpkg -i <package>.deb ?
[10:44] <gibarian> Hello everyone...I'm having a problem with installing icon themes? Anyone familiar with that?
[10:44] <error403> "FATAL: Could not open 'System.map': No such file or directory"
[10:45] <error403> does that mean i need to copy the kernel source again?
[10:45] <transgress> anyone know how to view history in konq?
[10:46] <Riddell> transgress: F9  clock icon
[10:47] <transgress> thanks
[10:49] <transgress> one other about konq... can i make middle click make the scroll button come up like in ff?
[10:55] <Tm_T> hullo
[10:57] <gibarian> hey Tm_T
[10:57] <gibarian> Tm_T: do you have any idea why the nuvola icon theme won't show up in the control center after installation?
[10:58] <Tm_T> you ihstalled it right place?
[11:00] <gibarian> well, guess so..just as I did when I used KDE with my Knoppix install...worked fine there
[11:00] <gibarian> Nuvola even shows up in my .kde/share/icons folder
[11:00] <gibarian> but not in the control center
[11:01] <Tm_T> gibarian: hmm, maybe you have wrong rights setted up?
[11:01] <Tm_T> (for that dir)
[11:01] <gibarian> hmm...how would I find out?
[11:01] <Tm_T> heh
[11:02] <gibarian> right, chmodded it to 777, doesn't change  a thing though
[11:03] <Tm_T> put those icons into /usr/share/icons/
[11:05] <Tm_T> hmm, I guess nobody have statistics from this channel...
[11:08] <gibarian> nope, nothing
[11:10] <Tm_T> oh, do you find index.theme from .../nuvola/ dir?
[11:13] <Tm_T> gibarian: ?
[11:36] <transgress> anyone had problems updating kde-libs?
[11:39] <KaiL_> http://moba.linuxfaqs.de/kdelibs-debug.sh << fixes your problems
[11:39] <gibarian> YES!
[11:39] <transgress> thanks
[11:40] <gibarian> what does that script do?
[11:40] <transgress> gibarian: looks like it forces the overwrite
[11:40] <harsha_> does anyknows what does this wierd error means
[11:40] <harsha_> Gdk-WARNING **: locale not supported by Xlib, locale set to C
[11:40] <harsha_> Segmentation fault
[11:41] <transgress> gibarian: then reinstalls kcontrol
[11:41] <KaiL_> transgress: more or less it allows to overwrite a folder by itself ;)
[11:41] <gibarian> oh, ok
[11:41] <KaiL_> transgress: and finally regenerates /etc/kderc
[11:41] <gibarian> that's a downside of kynaptic...no telling if everything worked well
[11:42] <gibarian> i botched my KDE earlier this morning, then reinstalled old kdelibs
[11:42] <transgress> looks safe enough heh... 
[11:43] <gibarian> by the way, anyone else have issues with installing icon themes?
[11:43] <transgress> gibarian: run it in a terminal
[11:44] <transgress> and i haven't yet installed any icon themes... i just installed kubuntu tonight
[11:44] <gibarian> transgress: run kynaptic in a terminal? that's what I did, after my KDE was all messed up
[11:44] <gibarian> oh, I did yesterday
[11:45] <transgress> well if you look at the terminal for it, it shows any problems apt has
[11:46] <gibarian> yeah, that's what I thought...synaptic shows you a little screen by default...better
[11:51] <Tm_T> hmmh
[11:55] <harsha_> can some one help me get rid of  this error
[11:55] <harsha_> Gdk-WARNING **: locale not supported by C library
[11:55] <harsha_> Segmentation fault
[11:56] <Tm_T> harsha_: what "locale" returns?
[11:57] <Tm_T> harsha_: ?
[11:57] <harsha_> nothin
[11:57] <Tm_T> eh
[11:57] <harsha_> local returns nothin
[11:58] <Tm_T> locale
[11:58] <harsha_> yeah locale
[11:58] <Tm_T> it's command
[11:58] <harsha_> haan 
[11:58] <harsha_> it now returns somethin
[11:58] <harsha_> Gdk-WARNING **: locale not supported by C library
[11:58] <harsha_> Segmentation fault
[11:58] <harsha_> hang on 1 second
[11:58] <Tm_T> ehh?
[11:59] <Tm_T> :)
[11:59] <harsha_> locale: Cannot set LC_CTYPE to default locale: No such file or directory
[11:59] <harsha_> locale: Cannot set LC_MESSAGES to default locale: No such file or directory
[11:59] <harsha_> locale: Cannot set LC_ALL to default locale: No such file or directory
[11:59] <harsha_> 1st 3 lines
[11:59] <Tm_T> harsha_: ok, you have broken /etc/environment
[11:59] <harsha_> ok here is the output of loacle
[11:59] <harsha_> locale: Cannot set LC_CTYPE to default locale: No such file or directory
[11:59] <harsha_> locale: Cannot set LC_MESSAGES to default locale: No such file or directory
[11:59] <harsha_> locale: Cannot set LC_ALL to default locale: No such file or directory
[11:59] <harsha_> LANG=en_GN.UTF-8
[11:59] <harsha_> LC_CTYPE="en_GN.UTF-8"
[11:59] <harsha_> LC_NUMERIC="en_GN.UTF-8"
[11:59] <harsha_> LC_TIME="en_GN.UTF-8"
[11:59] <harsha_> LC_COLLATE="en_GN.UTF-8"
[11:59] <harsha_> LC_MONETARY="en_GN.UTF-8"
[11:59] <harsha_> LC_MESSAGES="en_GN.UTF-8"
[11:59] <harsha_> LC_PAPER="en_GN.UTF-8"
[11:59] <harsha_> LC_NAME="en_GN.UTF-8"
[11:59] <harsha_> LC_ADDRESS="en_GN.UTF-8"
[11:59] <harsha_> LC_TELEPHONE="en_GN.UTF-8"
[11:59] <harsha_> LC_MEASUREMENT="en_GN.UTF-8"
[11:59] <harsha_> LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_GN.UTF-8"
[11:59] <harsha_> LC_ALL=
[12:00] <harsha_> PLZ HELP ME TIM_T
[12:00] <Tm_T> eehhh *flood*
[12:00] <Tm_T> hmm
[12:00] <harsha_> how do i ??????????fix it
[12:00] <Tm_T> whatta hell is en_GN ?
[12:00] <harsha_> no idea
[12:00] <Tm_T> I think it should be en_GB :)
[12:01] <harsha_> i am running kubuntu hoary preview version
[12:01] <Tm_T> check your /etc/environment
[12:01] <Tm_T> preview?! ehh, you haven't udated it?
[12:01] <harsha_> yeah i have done apt-get dist-upgrade
[12:02] <Tm_T> so it's not preview anymore
[12:02] <harsha_> contents of /etc/environment
[12:02] <harsha_> LANGUAGE="en_IN:en_US:en_GB:en"
[12:02] <harsha_> LANG=en_IN
[12:02] <harsha_> yeah
[12:02] <Tm_T> ok
[12:02] <Tm_T> IN?
[12:02] <harsha_> India
[12:02] <Tm_T> ok
[12:03] <harsha_> so what next
[12:03] <Tm_T>  try LANGUAGE="en_GB:en"
[12:03] <Tm_T> and LANG=en_GB
[12:05] <warriorfr> yo
[12:05] <harsha_> hey Tm_T
[12:05] <harsha_> ist working
[12:05] <harsha_> its workin
[12:05] <harsha_> THANX DUDE
[12:05] <Tm_T> :)
[12:05] <Tm_T> np
[12:08] <harsha_> hey Tim_T
[12:09] <harsha_> i cant run it as a normal user
[12:09] <harsha_> its work only under root
[12:09] <Tm_T> heh
[12:09] <Tm_T> btw leave that i
[12:10] <harsha_> what 'i'
[12:10] <Tm_T> T"i"m_T
[12:10] <Tm_T> it's only Tm_T ;)
[12:11] <harsha_> ok fine
[12:11] <harsha_> sorry for that
[12:11] <Tm_T> harsha_: well, you may still have broken locale as user...
[12:12] <harsha_> so how do i fix it
[12:13] <Tm_T> so, what "locale" gives in "LANG=" line?
[12:13] <harsha_> LANG=en_GN.UTF-8
[12:14] <Tm_T> ok
[12:14] <Tm_T> so then type "LANG=en_GB.UTF-8"
[12:17] <harsha_> it does not help
[12:17] <Tm_T> hm, then LANG=en_GB
[12:18] <Tm_T> check if locale gives what you set
[12:21] <harsha_> yes locale gives me what i set but the program does not run
[12:25] <Tm_T> hmm
[12:25] <Tm_T> interesting
[12:43] <hussam>  I have a kodak cx7310 usb digital camera. what software do I need to get it to work on ubuntu?
[12:44] <verden01> Hey
[12:44] <incubii> ho
[12:44] <verden01> whats up
[12:45] <hussam> anybody knows how I can get my kodak cx7310 digital camera to work on ubuntu?
[12:45] <verden01> what about kubuntu
[12:46] <hussam> I meant kubuntu
[12:46] <verden01> ok i haven't tried yet myself but i think a program called gtkam might need to be installed
[12:46] <verden01> but i'm not really sure
[12:47] <verden01> hang on i'l just look in synaptic
[12:48] <hussam> i found gtkam in synaptic, I'll install it
[12:49] <verden01> theres another one called digikam
[12:50] <verden01> i'm downloading it as well and i'll check my digital camera :)
[12:50] <allee> hussam: [shameless plug]  in case you try (the much better) digikam, use more recent debs at http://www.mpe.mpg.de/~ach/kubuntu/hoary/Pkgs.php
[12:52] <verden01> allee, do i need to add this to my sources.list?
[12:52] <hussam> gtkam says it cannot initialize camera.
[12:52] <verden01> is this a newer camera?
[12:53] <hussam> verden01: yes and it works perfectly on my other computer on windowsxp
[12:53] <verden01> cool thanx
[12:54] <verden01> do you know if theres an AMD64 version?
[12:55] <allee> verden01: That's most convinient, but you can of course download the debs and install them
[12:56] <amu> allee: what are the differences between yours and ubuntu one ?
[12:56] <allee> hussam: both gtkam and digikam use libghoto2 to access the camera.  Check www.ghoto.org is your camera is supported
[12:56] <verden01> :)
[12:57] <ztonzy> anyone know how to get rid of the crash Konqueror gives you now and then ?
[12:57] <allee> amu:  AFAIR ubuntu has 0.7 and mine are 0.7.2.  But I have not checked breezy for quite some time
[01:00] <hussam> allee: on http://www.gphoto.org/proj/libgphoto2/support.php,  it lists my camera
[01:00] <amu> ic bbreezy has 0.7.2 now 
[01:00] <verden01> how stable is breezy
[01:01] <allee> amu: sorry lunch.  Later ;)
[01:01] <amu> in general DO NOT USE at your work computer, if yoou like always latest software feel free :) 
[01:01] <verden01> :)
[01:02] <amu> allee: good idea  
[01:45] <hussam> allee: i added myself to camera group, rebooted. now in konqueror, I can see the camera but not the files inside. but gtkam was able to view the files
[01:49] <Kortor> I got an awesome idea for a new reality show
[01:50] <Kortor> "Pimp my Hardware"
[01:50] <Tm_T> eh
[01:50] <Tm_T> well that was an old one
[01:50] <Kortor> and then if it succeeds, next seaion they have "Pimp my Software"
[01:50] <Kortor> where they install Linux on people
[01:50] <Kortor> people's computers
[01:50] <Tm_T> Kortor: gotta say, that's old joke =)
[01:50] <Kortor> Tm_T: Peer...
[01:51] <Kortor> Tm_T: It is? And here I thought I just made it up. :/
[01:53] <Tm_T> haha
[01:53] <Tm_T> Kortor: we have been laughing at such ideas for months :)
[01:53] <Tm_T> "pimp my wife" is old classic
[01:54] <Kortor> I've heard that one
[01:54] <Kortor> Tm_T: You just ruined my life. You happy now? ;)
[01:55] <Tm_T> oh yesss ] ;=
[01:58] <Kortor> LOL
[02:10] <Tm_T> foo
[02:55] <hussam> is there a NNTP (newsreader) for kubuntu?
[02:55] <Cowlike> hussam, try pan
[02:55] <Cowlike> or thunderbird
[02:57] <hussam> ok thanks
[02:59] <Cowlike> hussam, i forgot about the KDE one you might like... knode
[03:01] <hussam> thanks, I was looking for something kde based
[03:04] <NTolerance> does knode download binaries easily?
[03:04] <NTolerance> i tried kilibido but it's subject to the kdelibs bug
[03:04] <NTolerance> that's how i hosed my KDE earlier
[03:12] <Cowlike> don't remember if knode will automatically put together multi-msg binaries
[03:12] <Cowlike> been a long time since i used it
[03:19] <Cowlike> This article has the MIME type "message/partial", which KNode cannot handle yet.
[03:19] <Cowlike> Meanwhile you can save the article as a text file and reassemble it by hand.
[03:19] <Cowlike> NTolerance, knode still can't assemble multi-part binaries
[03:19] <Cowlike> works on the ones in a single msg though
[03:44] <AzMoo> Does anybody know why I wouldn't be able to receive messages through AIM using Konversation?
[03:49] <Tm_T> eh, you are using Konversation?
[03:49] <Tm_T> I rest my case ;p
[03:49] <AzMoo> Should I install gaim?
[03:49] <psn> AzMoo: or at least kopete
[03:50] <Tm_T> heh
[03:50] <AzMoo> errr
[03:50] <AzMoo> right sorry
[03:50] <AzMoo> Kopete
[03:50] <AzMoo> Not Konversation
[03:50] <Tm_T> heh
[03:50] <Tm_T> I use gaim, it's allright
[03:50] <Tm_T> but Kopete works fine too
[03:51] <AzMoo> I'll install gaim, see if that works.
[03:56] <AzMoo> Yeah, Gaim works. That'll do then :)
[04:00] <Tm_T> great :)
[04:08] <kkathman> Good Dayy, All :)
[04:11] <jurgis> Hello, when i install kubunu, setup didin't ask root password, so what is my root password?
[04:12] <kkathman> jurgis there is no root in ubuntu systems
[04:12] <jurgis> realy? :DD
[04:13] <jurgis> mm ok, another question :) were is xf86config file?
[04:13] <nanomad> /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[04:13] <jurgis> tnx
[04:13] <nanomad> now i have a question...
[04:14] <nanomad> ive just switched to kde...in gnome sound is ok while in kde, using alsa, it doesnt work
[04:14] <nanomad> any suggestions?
[04:15] <nanomad> no one?
[04:16] <jurgis> so where i can change monitor refresh rate? Now is only 85hz, monitor susport 105hz
[04:21] <Tm_T> nanomad: hmm, check your audiosettings in kcontrol
[04:22] <nanomad> ok
[04:22] <nanomad> if i choose alsa, it says no device (but in gnome works...)
[04:22] <nanomad> if i choose oss everything is ok
[04:23] <nanomad> but i WANT to use alsa...oss is deprecated.
[04:26] <Tm_T> haha
[04:26] <nanomad> ?
[04:27] <Tm_T> hmm, you have all needed packages installed?
[04:27] <kkathman> jurgis: right cick on your desktop, choose Configure Desktop, then choose DISPLAY on the left panel
[04:27] <nanomad> Tm_T, dont know wich should be...so..
[04:27] <nanomad> ive installed kubuntu-something
[04:27] <jurgis> But There is only 85hz...
[04:28] <pussfeller> hmmm adding ubuntuguide to my delicious list, then the site timing out 5 minutes later
[04:28] <jurgis> On SuSE on same rezolution was 105hz
[04:28] <pussfeller> just coincidence? I dont think so
[04:34] <pointwood> when I run an update (using synaptic), I get the following error which I have no idea how to fix: 
[04:34] <pointwood> eggy: /var/cache/apt/archives/kdelibs-data_4-0x1,26a3b0000005ap-1333.4.0-0ubuntu3.1_all.deb:  trying to overwrite `/usr/share/icons/default.kde', which is also in package knetworkconf
[04:35] <pointwood> hrm...nu sure why it says "eggy", in the error message it just says "E:"
[04:36] <blueeel> pointwood: read the topic... there's a link for fixing just that problem... ;-)
[04:36] <pointwood> doh
[04:36] <pointwood> thx :D
[04:39] <theine> Hi, how do I add my Home folder to the KDE taskbar? I can't figure it out...
[04:39] <kkathman> theine: use the KDE Control Center
[04:39] <theine> kkathman: ah, alright
[04:41] <kkathman> theine wait...a better way... just right click on the K menu and choose menu editor...quicker
[04:41] <theine> kkathman: sorry, but i don't want to add somethink to the K menu, I'd just want to have a link to my home directory on the taskbar
[04:43] <kkathman> ohhh
[04:43] <kkathman> theine:  you mean the kicker at the botttom?
[04:44] <jurgis> When i install kubuntu, i chosen English languge, but english is not my language, how can i change it?
[04:44] <theine> kkathman: exactly
[04:44] <kkathman> theine: do the same...right click on the kicker, Panel Menu... add..
[04:45] <theine> kkathman: add what?
[04:46] <kkathman> theine:  special button
[04:46] <theine> kkathman: which one?
[04:46] <kkathman> theine:  special button, then quick browser
[04:47] <kkathman> it will appear to the far right
[04:47] <kkathman> then you can drag it where you want
[04:47] <theine> kkathman: that's ok, or system menu, but I'd really like to have a simple link to my home directory
[04:47] <kkathman> theine..it is... at least when I do it
[04:47] <kkathman> just click Open in File Manager and that does it
[04:48] <theine> kkathman: it shows the stuff in my home directory among other things, but it's not like that if i click on it konqueror starts and shows my home directory
[04:49] <theine> kkathman: which is what happens if I add the systems menu, click on it and select home folder
[04:49] <kkathman> so you just want to click and then it automatically open that browser?
[04:49] <theine> kkathman: yes
[04:50] <kkathman> hmm ok
[04:51] <kkathman> let me experiment here
[04:51] <theine> kkathman: exactly like here, http://www.pcbsd.org/PMScreens/InstallFF4.jpg
[04:52] <mrmanic> I just got here.   what's the problem?
[04:52] <kkathman> mrmanic: trying to put an icon on the kicker that when he clicks it..it opens his home folder in Konq
[04:52] <theine> mrmanic: I'd like to have that Home Folder button in my kicker, just like in the screenshot
[04:54] <kkathman> I think I have a way
[04:55] <mrmanic> kfmclient openProfile filemanagement
[04:55] <i_m_meen> hello everyone
[04:55] <mrmanic> pretty sure that's what you want.
[04:55] <mrmanic> just make the button point at that.
[04:56] <i_m_meen> does anyone one know how to make the panel transparent?
[04:57] <mrmanic> should be under RightClick > Configure Panel > Appearance > Enable Transparency
[04:57] <kkathman> yeah that will work mrmanic 
[04:58] <kkathman> theine:  right click on the desktop, choose CREATE NEW then Application...enter the Name as HOME, then in the command put what mrmanic said
[04:59] <kkathman> then drag that resulting icon to the kicker
[04:59] <kkathman> to move it, right click, MOVE then drag it where you want
[05:00] <theine> kkathman,mrmanic: There's another way, I just dragged the Home Folder symbol from the treeview in konqueror to the kicker and then right clicked while still holding down the left mouse button. Appearently, that creates a link...
[05:00] <theine> kkathman,mrmanic: Anyway, thanks for your help guys
[05:00] <mrmanic> cool
[05:01] <kkathman> funny how those seemingly easy things end up being more difficult that you thought
[05:01] <theine> kkathman: indeed
[05:01] <kkathman> and how the things you thing are hard, end up being easy
[05:01] <kkathman> Im still trying to install the java runtime on my system and havent been able to figure that out yet
[05:01] <i_m_meen> found transparency, don't like it because it's not integrated with those little widgets :P
[05:01] <kkathman> should be simple
[05:02] <theine> kkathman: have you tried the ubuntu backports java package, that worked nicely for me
[05:02] <kkathman> theine: I got java itself (ie. the SDK) installed
[05:03] <theine> kkathman: ah, ok, so it's not tracked by the package manager?
[05:03] <kkathman> but for some reason I cant get the JRE to install .. its a separate pkg and Ive gotten a few approaches.
[05:03] <kkathman> but I'll figure it out I suppose
[05:03] <kkathman> not that I know of...there are many java packages
[05:05] <_bill> how do you change your nick..it has been so long that i forgot...lol
[05:05] <kkathman> theine: The JRE is not, I think because its proprietary Sun...but some of the packages are
[05:06] <theine> kkathman: I installed the two sun packages from http://backports.ubuntuforums.org/backports/dists/hoary-extras/restricted/binary-i386/ locally with dpkg, worked nicely
[05:07] <kkathman> theine did you put those in your sources.list then?
[05:07] <kkathman> ahhh I see...gotcha
[05:08] <kkathman> excellent theine, thank you very much!
[05:08] <theine> kkathman: You're welcome
[05:08] <_bill> the unofficial guide is the greatest...was able to install everything without any problems
[05:09] <_bill> {after the third or fourth time}
[05:11] <_bill> my fglrx for ati is installed..the gl screensavers in gnome work great..but the ones in kde lock up my computer....
[05:13] <_bill> used linux a lot in the past...but this is the first time that I found a useable version since i built my amd-64 system..
[05:19] <_bill> using k7 kernel..since it seems more software is available than for the amd-64
[05:21] <_bill> it was very easy to install all the multimedia and burner software using the unofficial guide...and everything installed without errors
[05:22] <_bill> first time that i have ever gotten a working real player...
[05:27] <jurgis> How to add new languages? Now is only english
[05:27] <jurgis> *using Kubuntu 5.04
[05:28] <shogouki> sudo apt-get install kde-i18n-fr
[05:28] <jurgis> it for me?
[05:28] <shogouki> yup
[05:28] <jurgis> tnx i'll try it
[05:31] <i_m_meen> not sure, in which repository can i find wine?
[05:32] <i_m_meen> don't seem to be able to find it
[05:32] <i_m_meen> and i have main, uni and multi to
[05:40] <_bill> would anyone know why gl screensavers work in gnome but lock up the puter in kde
[05:40] <_bill> ?
[05:44] <papo> hi: now that hoary is released wich is the test apt source? I dont have anything to update :(
[05:45] <The_Feet> hey all  ;)
[05:58] <blueeel> hey, The_Feet !
[05:59] <blueeel> pointwood: did you get your kdelibs problem solved ?
[05:59] <pointwood> yeah, I ran the script - seemed to work as it should :)
[06:00] <blueeel> ok
[06:01] <pointwood> looks like was the reason I had some audio problems as well :)
[06:05] <kkathman> papo: Only occasionally will you need to update
[06:06] <papo> kkathman: ok, but will amarok for example be updated o do a need to add another source to apt
[06:09] <kkathman> papo: amarok, if it needs to be updated, will show up in your synaptics area as needing to be updated. Thats when you know any of its dependencies have also been updated.  Otherwise, you can go to the amarok web site and download the newest version and manually resolve any dependencies yourself
[06:10] <kkathman> papo: you might also have to compile it, depending on what those folks provide you
[06:14] <papo> kkathman: ok, I understand but isnt any way to test unstables apps with apt. No system pakages but only  apps? Im a knew
[06:14] <papo> in all this
[06:14] <papo> ;)
[06:14] <papo> new
[06:20] <Tm_T> :)
[06:20] <kkathman> papo: I understand. Im not sure what you mean about testing unstables?  You can include the unstable sources in your /etc/sources.list if you would like, and then the apt system can allow the installation. It will report any depedencies.
[06:21] <papo> kkathman:  Yes, I think that is waht a wh
[06:22] <papo> kkathman:  sorry. Isnt that the same as we do when the hoary wasnt stable?
[06:23] <hussam> how do I switch from gdm to kdm the opposite?
[06:24] <kkathman> papo: well not really, Im not sure what you used...I used the package manager in Gnome (within KDE) to manage updates. Once things go "stable" then any major things are done through the security releases. All others are more or less at your risk.
[06:27] <papo> kkathman: I mean, when hoary was unfinished the was lots of pakages to udate, and besides that everything was ok.  Can I do something like that but only with "app pakages" in order to have the latest amsn, amarok, mplayer...
[06:28] <papo> kkathman: thank you anyway... Im lear
[06:28] <papo> nig
[06:28] <papo> :)
[06:32] <kkathman> papo:  Like I said before, if the ubuntu folks determine that an existing package needs to be updated, it will be reported in the package manager just like the updates were. But you shouldnt look for too many of these.  But, with things like Gaim, or Amarok, chances are, you wont get notification of new releases and you'll need to monitor those yourself. For instance, I learned about the new release of Gaim, compiled and inst
[06:33] <kkathman> papo: A good thing to subscribe to, though, is the RSS feed from KDE.org.. they have three. If you open up Kontact and look at your RSS Feeds, they should be defaulted. Thats how I learn of new releases to ancillary software in K.
[06:34] <papo> ok kkathman thank you very much    :)
[06:36] <kkathman> papo: you are very welcome, enjoy
[06:37] <Tm_T> kkathman: hi
[06:38] <kkathman> howdy there Tm_T!! How is life in beautiful Finland today?
[06:38] <Tm_T> well, nice =)
[06:39] <Tm_T> how's yours?
[06:41] <kkathman> its fairly sunny today and a bit on the cooler side for spring here
[06:42] <kkathman> we have been quite warm, until yesterday afternoon when a little cold front moved through and cooled things off quite a bit
[06:51] <NTolerance> spring here has been crappy
[06:51] <NTolerance> still cold as balls
[06:51] <NTolerance> well, really not cold
[06:51] <NTolerance> but not warm enough
[06:51] <NTolerance> only 60F right now and it's midday in May
[06:52] <shogouki> 23C here (19h00)
[06:53] <kkathman> howdy NTolerance  how goes it today?
[06:53] <NTolerance> not bad, yourself?
[06:53] <kkathman> we had a couple of days last week of 85-92 degree F weather...was almost like summer
[06:54] <kkathman> temps jumped down to the 40's last night tho.
[06:54] <NTolerance> we've had a cold front for weeks, i don't understand it
[06:54] <NTolerance> nights have been in the 40s
[06:54] <NTolerance> consistently
[06:54] <kkathman> 58 here today right now
[06:54] <kkathman> thats kinda cool for us for May
[07:04] <spiral> hi
[07:05] <Tm_T> hullo
[07:13] <MightyF> you people are all insane
[07:17] <kkathman> Im not insane yet, but getting there :)
[07:17] <kkathman> I do not suffer from insanity, I enjoy it
[07:18] <kkathman> However, MightyF if you do want to see insane, we have one of those here. stick around :)
[07:18] <kkathman> Howdy KaiL  :)
[07:19] <MightyF> kkathman, how much effort does it take to get kubuntu?
[07:20] <KaiL> hmm, pppd seams to start eating cputime here
[07:20] <NTolerance> hey KaiL, did the repositories ever get updated?
[07:20] <KaiL> NTolerance: ?
[07:20] <MightyF> k, gotta run
[07:21] <kkathman> MightyF: not much at all
[07:21] <kkathman> MightyF: install base hoary, then simply do an apt-get install kubuntu-desktop, logout and log into KDE
[07:22] <MightyF> kkathman, heh, sounds pretty easy, whats the catch?
[07:22] <kkathman> none
[07:22] <kkathman> its THAT simple
[07:22] <kkathman> Ive done it many times
[07:22] <MightyF> wow, well, I'd try it if I liked KDE, but since i don't
[07:23] <kkathman> I can install ubunutu with KDE in about 30 minutes max on a system with reasonable speed and memory
[07:23] <MightyF> Well, I didn't like KDE in fedora anyways
[07:23] <kkathman> maybe even less
[07:23] <kkathman> ubuntu isnt near as bloated as FC3
[07:23] <MightyF> is kde in ubuntu as ugly as fc1's KDE
[07:23] <kkathman> fewer starting packages and you install more of what you need
[07:23] <MightyF> i use ubuntu gnome
[07:23] <MightyF> hoary
[07:24] <kkathman> yeah KDE is a bit more configurable than gnome
[07:24] <MightyF> oh really
[07:24] <MightyF> i like freedom
[07:24] <kkathman> and easier to tailor to your needs
[07:24] <MightyF> i might have to try it tonight
[07:24] <kkathman> more/easier controls I think
[07:24] <MightyF> i gotta go, have labs to do
[07:24] <MightyF> later
[07:24] <MightyF> v55
[07:24] <kkathman> laterz
[07:39] <Tm_T> hmm hmm
[07:40] <kkathman> Tm_T ??
[07:40] <Tm_T> I was wondering if there's a way to have Thunderbird in systray
[07:40] <kkathman> u mean on the kicker?
[07:40] <kkathman> or like as a notification?
[07:40] <Tm_T> yes, in systray part
[07:41] <kkathman> if you want it in the kicker, thats easy
[07:41] <Tm_T> eh
[07:41] <Tm_T> easy?
[07:41] <kkathman> yeah
[07:41] <kkathman> is it on your desktop now?
[07:42] <Tm_T> I say yes (it's not ofcourse)
[07:42] <Tm_T> go on
[07:43] <kkathman> well if its not...you can just right click down toward the left end of the kicker...then click Panel Menu....Add to Panel...Application
[07:43] <kkathman> then put your path to it
[07:43] <Tm_T> I know _that_ but that's not what I mean
[07:43] <kkathman> if you already had it on your desktop
[07:43] <kkathman> you could just drag and drop it
[07:43] <Tm_T> no no no
[07:43] <Tm_T> I give you a pic what explains
[07:43] <kkathman> ok
[07:46] <Tm_T> http://www.kapsi.fi/~tm_travolta/kuvat/temp/foo_006.png
[07:46] <Tm_T> that's what I want
[07:47] <Tm_T> and that part of Kicker (or panel) is called system tray
[07:47] <kkathman> ahh ok
[07:47] <kkathman> let me check something
[07:48] <Tm_T> there might be an extension
[07:50] <kkathman> Tm_T: read through this...it might help:  http://mirror.hamakor.org.il/archives/linux-il/12-2003/7148.html
[07:52] <Tm_T> ok, so there's extension somewhere...
[07:52] <kkathman> i suppose
[07:52] <kkathman> brb
[07:53] <Tm_T> never found one though
[07:53] <Tm_T> seek and destroy!
[07:53] <Tm_T> ehm, I mean install
[07:58] <Tm_T> kkathman: ok, that's not in mozilla page :/
[07:58] <ghetek1> i put a kubuntu powerpc live cd into my imac, and it starts in some sort of command shell, how do i get into the gui?
[07:58] <Tm_T> hmm?
[07:58] <Tm_T> it's not some sort of, it's Bash =)
[07:59] <ghetek1> ah ok
[07:59] <Tm_T> heh
[07:59] <ghetek1> where is... you know... kde?
[07:59] <Tm_T> hmm, try "startkde"
[07:59] <ghetek1> k
[08:00] <ghetek1> a myriad of problems all relating to cant find $display
[08:00] <kkathman> back
[08:00] <Tm_T> ah ok, hmm, what kind of imac do you have?
[08:00] <jurgis> How to change monitor refresh rate? In Control Center i only can make 85hz, my monitor susport on this rezolution 105, so were else i can do it?
[08:01] <ghetek1> no idea, i know its slot loading
[08:01] <kkathman> jurgis: hard to imagine that during installation your monitor was not probed.. but also there are questions that you answer about those settings too
[08:01] <Tm_T> jurgis: eh, Kcontrol gives all what hardware seems to give :p
[08:02] <kkathman> I think there is a way to go through that X-org wizard but I dont know how
[08:02] <Tm_T> kkathman: it is probed, I bet that some marketing clowns are just liars
[08:02] <Tm_T> not so new thing
[08:03] <kkathman> Tm_T that could be...thats why I always answer the set of questions about resolution and refresh rate :)
[08:03] <jurgis> Tm_T no, in SuSE on same rezolution i had 105hz in windows too
[08:03] <kkathman> 105??? wow never seen that
[08:03] <jurgis> :)
[08:03] <kkathman> I have a flat screen tho so it doesnt matter to me
[08:03] <Tm_T> jurgis: hmm, interesting...
[08:03] <jurgis> it's not much
[08:04] <jurgis> on 800X600 max is 160hz
[08:04] <Tm_T> I use 60Hz in my CRT :p
[08:04] <jurgis> :)
[08:04] <kkathman> why do you want such a high rate
[08:04] <Tm_T> can't see any flickering though
[08:04] <jurgis> ur eys dont tiried?
[08:04] <Tm_T> nope
[08:04] <kkathman> like I said, I have a flat panel LCD screen :)
[08:05] <Tm_T> back in early 90's I used 50Hz :p
[08:05] <jurgis> :)
[08:05] <ghetek1> wish i had a flat screen lcd...
[08:05] <jurgis> u wearing glasses?
[08:05] <Tm_T> jurgis: nope
[08:05] <jurgis> strange...
[08:05] <Tm_T> I'm just bit slow, I think ;p
[08:06] <jurgis> :)
[08:06] <ghetek1> \] so any idea as to how to get my video to work?
[08:06] <ghetek1> with a gui?
[08:07] <Tm_T> ghetek1: hmm, dunno, sorry
[08:07] <ghetek1> mmm
[08:07] <ghetek1> thank you anyway
[08:07] <Tm_T> np
[08:08] <Tm_T> I never had been so honored to be owner of Mac ;p
[08:08] <Tm_T> hmm
[08:08] <Tm_T> had? is that correct?
[08:08] <kkathman> lol
[08:08] <kkathman> macs are ok for some things 
[08:08] <Tm_T> maybe Isholdn't sleeped/skipped my english courses
[08:09] <Tm_T> hmm, can't type either
[08:09] <kkathman> especially for things like music...very very good for that, but macs are very cost-prohibitive
[08:09] <Tm_T> heh
[08:09] <kkathman> proprietary hardware, OS and apps
[08:09] <ghetek1> i just want to see if it actually works on mac
[08:09] <kkathman> the most closed in environment on the planet
[08:09] <ghetek1> linux=free, macs=very cheap
[08:09] <ghetek1> especially imacs
[08:10] <kkathman> macs  not cheap
[08:10] <ghetek1> in california you can get a refurb imac for 60 bucks
[08:10] <kkathman> refurb?
[08:10] <kkathman> lol
[08:10] <ghetek1> and keyboard and mouse for like 10
[08:10] <ghetek1> thats a good system for seniors
[08:13] <kkathman> yeah I bought a kbd and mouse for 10 last week
[08:13] <kkathman> refurb PC clones can go for at little as 30 -50 here
[08:13] <kkathman> but I can build a brand new one for $250 or $300 tops
[08:14] <kkathman> you cant get a brand new mac of any kind for that price :)
[08:14] <ghetek1> ya but senior citizens dont need a brand new one
[08:14] <ghetek1> they need something to go online (firefox)
[08:14] <ghetek1> and to do email (thunderbird)
[08:14] <ghetek1> and open office
[08:14] <kkathman> right
[08:14] <ghetek1> so why not mac?
[08:15] <kkathman> mac is fine for that purpose, esp if you can get them for #60 :)
[08:15] <kkathman> thats pretty incredible
[08:15] <kkathman> I'd buy about 10 of those and sell them for twice that
[08:16] <ghetek1> thats how i get through college
[08:16] <ghetek1> :)
[08:16] <kkathman> good idea :)
[08:16] <ghetek1> thanks
[08:16] <ghetek1> thats why i like kubuntu
[08:16] <ghetek1> now i can get wine on these things
[08:16] <ghetek1> and run win apps
[08:16] <ghetek1> on macs
[08:17] <ghetek1> or even get a nice winxp theme on kde
[08:17] <kkathman> you can also buy pc clones, build for $250 and sell for around $400 and people think they are getting a great deal
[08:17] <ghetek1> well they are
[08:17] <ghetek1> im not cheating people
[08:17] <kkathman> I'd turnkey a Linux system, brand new to someone for maybe what.. $400 and make that profit all day long :)
[08:17] <ghetek1> its about teaching applications not the system sale
[08:17] <ghetek1> nah
[08:18] <ghetek1> linux is free
[08:18] <ghetek1> and hardware is cheap
[08:18] <kkathman> but your time is worth something
[08:18] <ghetek1> education is whats important
[08:18] <ghetek1> ya
[08:18] <kkathman> yeah but that dont pay tuition :)
[08:18] <Tm_T> kkathman: btw I can't find that systray extension :/
[08:18] <ghetek1> sell your time, your knowledge
[08:18] <kkathman> Tm_T did you try the mozilla web site?
[08:20] <Tm_T> kkathman: yes, not in there
[08:20] <kkathman> hmmm
[08:21] <kkathman> I guess I need to ask Tm_T why you want it to run in the systray in the 1st place?
[08:21] <Tm_T> kkathman: well first of all, I wan't that new mail notice thing
[08:22] <kkathman> wonder if you could launch it and put it in the background
[08:22] <kkathman> maybe not
[08:23] <Tm_T> kkathman: well, it does not tell you when there's new mail unless you check it from TB window
[08:23] <kkathman> right
[08:24] <kkathman> in windows it has to be running too, but theres a little icon that pops up in the win systray to indicate mail is in
[08:24] <Tm_T> kkathman: but does not keep showing it
[08:24] <Tm_T> so if you don't notice it right away...
[08:25] <slicnotslak> arg i hate slow mail servers
[08:26] <kkathman> Tm_T Here it is:  http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-17789.htm
[08:27] <kkathman> thats got a link to the extension
[08:28] <Tm_T> kkathman: oh thanks, don't know how I can't find it =)
[08:28] <kkathman> I went to google...did Thunderbird Linux Mail Notification
[08:29] <kkathman> I saw the ubuntu and  said HMMMM
[08:29] <Tm_T> oh
[08:29] <Tm_T> ok, so I'm too old to know how to use google then
[08:29] <kkathman> you arent old
[08:32] <Tm_T> too old
[08:32] <Tm_T> ;p
[08:32] <KaiL> Riddell: ping?
[08:34] <Tm_T> pingpong
[08:37] <kkathman> Tm_T i'l bet Im older than you are :)
[08:37] <kkathman> just to put your mind at ease :)
[08:40] <Tm_T> kkathman: yes, andf you're soooo 0ld ] ;=
[08:41] <Tm_T> haha
[08:41] <Tm_T> kkathman: btw that extension rocks! =)
[08:42] <kkathman> kewl glad to hear that Tm_T :)
[08:43] <kkathman> well, I have two kids in college and one in High School, and my Dad is 88 so that might tell you how old I am
[08:43] <Tm_T> kkathman: thing what should be in TB itself, or "default extension"
[08:43] <kkathman> Tm_T I agree with you
[08:44] <KaiL> that "replacement package" for kaffine seams to solve close to all problems?
[08:45] <Riddell> KaiL: hi
[08:46] <KaiL> Riddell: I guess, you've heared about kaffine problems?
[08:46] <KaiL> kaffeine..
[08:46] <KaiL> and about somebody, who has rebuild the debian package and got something very good working?
[08:47] <Riddell> kaffine has many problems
[08:47] <Riddell> i believe there is a better version in breezy
[08:47] <KaiL> but this package seams to solve many of them..
[08:47] <Riddell> who rebuilt it?
[08:47] <KaiL> oh, maybe that too :)
[08:48] <KaiL> good question...
[08:48] <KaiL> who had the url yesterday?
[08:48] <_P_> Riddell: are you  the  kynaptic devel?
[08:48] <KaiL> kkathman: you? :)
[08:48] <Riddell> _P_: sort of
[08:48] <_P_> is there  a  way  to  see  package filtered  by  source?
[08:49] <_P_> by  repository
[08:49] <gianluca> hello
[08:49] <_P_> ciao  gianluca
[08:49] <gianluca> sei ita?
[08:49] <_P_> yes
[08:49] <kkathman> KaiL: maybe...I used kaffeine at one time
[08:49] <gianluca> che culo
[08:49] <Riddell> _P_: don't think so
[08:49] <gianluca> mi spiegheresti qualche cosA?
[08:49] <_P_> :/
[08:49] <KaiL> somebody in here had an URL...
[08:49] <_P_> thanks
[08:50] <kkathman> but as I said, I dont usually use linux sound, cuz I have problems with it
[08:50] <KaiL> danm, I forgot to save that
[08:50] <kkathman> and I think they are unresolveable
[08:50] <gianluca> come si fa a mettere kubuntu in ita?
[08:50] <KaiL> gianluca: #ubuntu-it :)
[08:50] <KaiL> kkathman: tell us
[08:51] <KaiL> Riddell: some news about kdelibs-data? :)
[08:53] <Riddell> KaiL: waiting on kde cvs to svn transitiob
[08:54] <Riddell> so tomorrow
[08:54] <KaiL> let's hope
[08:54] <KaiL> anything about kde-i18n-se? that looks quite strange :)
[08:57] <DaSkreech> Hello
[08:57] <DaSkreech> is there a roadmap for Breezy>
[08:57] <DaSkreech> ?
[08:58] <kkathman> KaiL: well when I enable sound and hook that up, everytime I move my mouse, whether the volume is up or down, I get this buzz-humm sound...also when I move windows around on the screen
[08:58] <kkathman> Its very annoying and I think it has to do with the motherboard I chose
[08:58] <KaiL> ugs
[08:59] <KaiL> onboard?
[08:59] <KaiL> and which board?
[08:59] <kkathman> its an ASUS A7V400-MX
[08:59] <KaiL> hmm... KT400 so
[09:00] <kkathman> the board based sound is VIA
[09:00] <KaiL> that might be the Problem :p
[09:00] <KaiL> get a Soundcard
[09:00] <kkathman> Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8233/A/8235/8237 AC97 Audio Controller (rev 50)
[09:01] <kkathman> do you have a recommendation Kail?
[09:01] <kkathman> sorry.. KaiL 
[09:01] <kkathman> hehe
[09:01] <KaiL> Audigy2
[09:02] <kkathman> whew 
[09:02] <kkathman> expensive yes?
[09:03] <KaiL> ~100
[09:03] <KaiL> but VERY good
[09:03] <kkathman> I have an audigy on my win box, but not an audigy2
[09:03] <kkathman> its a bit of a high price to pay, if its my motherboard that is the problem tho
[09:04] <kkathman> but I can try
[09:04] <kkathman> Soundblaster used to have a lower end than the audigy I thought
[09:05] <KaiL> the SB Live, yes
[09:07] <Diablo-D3> well, kkathman 
[09:07] <Diablo-D3> you know what the audigy is, right?
[09:07] <Diablo-D3> the audigy is the "sblive 2"
[09:07] <Diablo-D3> its just the next product in a long line of products.
[09:07] <Diablo-D3> all using the emu10k core family
[09:09] <KaiL> has anybody seen a nice iptables frontend for KDE?
[09:10] <Riddell> KaiL: guarddog
[09:11] <Tm_T> Damn!
[09:11] <uniq> guarddog and guidedog are both nice.
[09:12] <Tm_T> Latvija is beating USA \o/
[09:16] <kkathman> Diablo-D3: right, I remember when I had my audio workstation that the sblive was very popular... not audiophile quality, because of that emu10k but still very nice
[09:17] <kkathman> so maybe I will try to find an audigy2 around somewhere
[09:17] <Diablo-D3> hey now
[09:17] <Diablo-D3> emu10ks are quite nice
[09:17] <Diablo-D3> but _only_ when in emu cards
[09:18] <KaiL> ?
[09:19] <Diablo-D3> KaiL: ?
 but _only_ when in emu cards << means?
[09:20] <Diablo-D3> I mean creative attaches fucking shit to emu chips
[09:21] <Diablo-D3> http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?maincategory=754&category=754&product=2220
[09:21] <Diablo-D3> like that
[09:21] <sarom> hello, I have ubuntu currently installed. Can I easily install KDE on it? or will a new kubuntu install be more efficient?
[09:21] <Diablo-D3> its only stereo, mind you, but it blows creative's best card out of the water
[09:21] <KaiL> sarom: should work together
[09:21] <pussfeller> sarom, its on the wiki you just apt-get it
[09:22] <sarom> where is the wiki?
[09:22] <root> Hello
[09:22] <root> I need help urgently
[09:22] <pussfeller> read topic
[09:22] <uniq> root: irc as root is bad.
[09:22] <root> I screwed up KDE somehow, nothing works except for konsole (through which I'm talking to you)
[09:22] <DaSkreech> root needs my help :-)
[09:22] <root> oh shit
[09:22] <kkathman> hmmm I thought Creative owned SoundBlaster...i.e. audigy, etc
[09:22] <root> brb people
[09:23] <kkathman> is that not true anymore?
[09:23] <DaBlade> ok, that was me 
[09:23] <kkathman> Diablo-D3: were you talking specifically about Creative's software stuff?
[09:23] <DaBlade> sorry
[09:23] <DaBlade> I was using root to try and fix the problems
[09:23] <DaBlade> Something screwed up real badly
[09:24] <pussfeller> ic
[09:24] <DaBlade> I tried starting ksysguard to kill and restart KDE processes, and got a popup that says:
[09:24] <sarom> Is the package stable?
[09:24] <sarom> everything will work.. right?
[09:25] <sarom> all I have to do is apt-get it
[09:25] <pussfeller> yes sarom
[09:25] <DaBlade> Will not save configuration. Configuration file "/home/dablade/.kde/share/config/ksysguardrc" nor writable. Configuration file "/home/dablade/.kde/share/config/kdelobals" not writable. Please contact your system administrator. [OK] 
[09:25] <sarom> the thing is, I can't find the apt-get instructions in the wiki that's on the topic
[09:25] <DaBlade> It does so whenever I run an app, and replaces ksysguardrc with the app's name
[09:26] <DaBlade> for some strange reason, I still see the Karamba themes I run, and they seem to work
[09:26] <DaBlade> I can see kicker, but it's crashed
[09:26] <DaBlade> can someone please help?
[09:26] <pussfeller> apt-get install  kubuntu-desktop
[09:27] <DaBlade> is that for me? I got that installed
[09:27] <pussfeller> no sarom 
[09:27] <DaBlade> I got this problem when I was uninstalling GTA Vice City through it's uninstaller (under Cedega)
[09:27] <pussfeller> dablade, did you try just lgging out
[09:27] <kkathman> DaBlade.. you might try to go to your gnome desktop, then remove and reinstall kubuntu-desktop
[09:27] <DaBlade> I can't. Everything except karamba and konsole is frozen
[09:27] <kkathman> sounds like something is majorly messed up
[09:28] <pussfeller> press cnt + alt+ backspace
[09:28] <DaBlade> kkathman, I installed Kubuntu, not installed ubuntu and then KDE on top
[09:28] <Akeru> DaBlade: I'm coming in the middle of the discussion but you might try to rename .kde directory
[09:28] <kkathman> ohhhh
[09:28] <kkathman> yeah thats why I always install hoary base, then installed kubuntu
[09:28] <DaBlade> how? nothing works
[09:28] <DaBlade> I know you do kkathman. you already told me that
[09:28] <slicnotslak> what's the package for macromedias moz flash plugin?  gnu's version crashes ff.  :-(
[09:28] <pussfeller> have you tried rebooting?
[09:28] <Akeru> DaBlade: ctrl-alt-f1 (twice if needd) you'll get a console
[09:29] <Akeru> f7 to come back
[09:29] <DaBlade> yes I know that
[09:29] <DaBlade> but I don't know what to do
[09:29] <DaBlade> I got another shell tab here in konsole
[09:29] <Akeru> so login, rename the .kde dir, kill kde and restart it
[09:29] <Diablo-D3> bacj
[09:29] <Diablo-D3> back
 Diablo-D3: were you talking specifically about Creative's software stuff?
[09:30] <Diablo-D3> no
[09:30] <DaBlade> can you give me the commands to do that?
[09:30] <Diablo-D3> especially since I RUN LINUX
[09:30] <Diablo-D3> no creative software anywhere in sight
[09:30] <Diablo-D3> kkathman: I'm talking specifically about the hardware
[09:30] <Akeru> DaBlade: cd ~ ; mv .kde .kde.old ; ctrl-alt-back space (kills kde) ; wait for kdm to come up again
[09:31] <Diablo-D3> KaiL: go look at that url, though
[09:31] <Akeru> if it does not come, login with a console and type "startx"
[09:32] <DaBlade> dablade@LinuxP2P:~$ mv .kde .kde.old
[09:32] <DaBlade> mv: cannot move `.kde' to `.kde.old': Read-only file system
[09:32] <DaBlade> dablade@LinuxP2P:~$
[09:32] <kkathman> ok thanks Diablo-D3 
[09:32] <sarom> Can I easily go back to gnome if I didn't like KDE?
[09:32] <Akeru> DaBlade: how come it is read only ?
[09:32] <Diablo-D3> kkathman: and I'm comparing just the 24-bit capable audigies
[09:32] <DaBlade> don't ask me
[09:32] <DaBlade> this all started after I uninstalled GTA Vice City
[09:32] <kkathman> Diablo-D3: then if you were going to get a sound card Diablo-D3 what would you recommend?
[09:32] <Diablo-D3> kkathman: ie, not the audigy 1, which _cannot_ output at 24-bit
[09:33] <Akeru> DaBlade: it can explain alot of stuff...
[09:33] <Diablo-D3> (it just internally mixes at 24bit)
[09:33] <Akeru> hmmm
[09:33] <Diablo-D3> kkathman: hrm, I actually want to get that 0404
[09:33] <Diablo-D3> kkathman: I dont do surround sound, so its perfect for me
[09:33] <DaBlade> I can try doing it as root. that ignores read only, right?
[09:33] <Akeru> DaBlade: cn you type "mount" and paste the result ? maybe in private to not flood here
[09:33] <Diablo-D3> kkathman: and it has amazing sound quality for a card that cheap
[09:33] <kkathman> Diablo-D3: got a link for that card?
[09:33] <DaBlade> dablade@LinuxP2P:~$ mount
[09:33] <DaBlade> /dev/hda1 on / type ext3 (rw,errors=remount-ro)
[09:33] <DaBlade> proc on /proc type proc (rw)
[09:33] <DaBlade> sysfs on /sys type sysfs (rw)
[09:33] <DaBlade> devpts on /dev/pts type devpts (rw,gid=5,mode=620)
[09:33] <DaBlade> tmpfs on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw)
[09:34] <Diablo-D3> kkathman: http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?maincategory=754&category=754&product=2220
[09:34] <DaBlade> none on /dev type tmpfs (rw,size=5M,mode=0755)
[09:34] <DaBlade> usbfs on /proc/bus/usb type usbfs (rw)
[09:34] <DaBlade> none on /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc type binfmt_misc (rw)
[09:34] <kkathman> thanks Diablo-D3  :)
[09:34] <DaBlade> dablade@LinuxP2P:~$
[09:34] <Akeru> rw,errors=remount-ro
[09:34] <Akeru> so there (maybe) was an error on the file system and it ws put read only
[09:34] <DaBlade> :/
[09:34] <DaBlade> how do I fix it?
[09:35] <Akeru> if you can afford rebooting this might be a good idea, and sees what happens
[09:35] <pussfeller> Akeru, thats standard mounting for ubuntu
[09:35] <Diablo-D3> kkathman: I seriously need to get cash so I can buy that card, though
[09:35] <pussfeller> his disk is mounted rw...
[09:35] <Akeru> pussfeller: yup, but his fs is read only right now, so there might have been an error
[09:35] <Diablo-D3> kkathman: its the perfect card
 mv: cannot move `.kde' to `.kde.old': Read-only file system
[09:35] <Akeru> pussfeller: so read only...
[09:35] <pussfeller> (rw, = its mounted rw
[09:36] <pussfeller> ah
[09:36] <sarom> guys, after I do the apt-get kubuntu-desktop, will it be installed right away, or do I need to do something special to bring it up?
[09:36] <edsuom> sarom: You should be able to go back to gdm and pick KDE
[09:36] <pussfeller> then something is messed up cause mount is showing something differnt
[09:36] <NTolerance> anyone here running torsmo?
[09:37] <Akeru> yp so, I'm affraid the simpler thing to do it try a reboot DaBlade 
[09:37] <sarom> you mean I should logout and then I'll be able to choose?
[09:37] <sarom> great
[09:37] <edsuom> sarom: Yep. Don't let the Gnome in gdm scare you, it works fine.
[09:37] <Akeru> and hope the system will actually boot because it seems a bit inconsistent
[09:37] <sarom> if I didn't like kde, I can go back to gnome easily without any problems.. right?
[09:37] <edsuom> Yes.
[09:37] <Akeru> yup
[09:38] <sarom> YAHOO!
[09:38] <Diablo-D3> kkathman: btw, that card specifically is for audiophile work
[09:38] <sarom> thanks! :)
[09:38] <sarom> kde here I come!
[09:38] <kkathman> Diablo-D3: yes I noticed the specs...very good
[09:38] <DaSkreech> Is there a wiki page for Breezy?
[09:38] <Diablo-D3> kkathman: its lack of surround sound wont do much for games and dvds
[09:38] <edsuom> Ubuntu is awesome, but I'm a little annoyed about certain crippled admin apps, like no web admin for CUPS.
[09:39] <pussfeller> so whats the skinny on the best cheap card for doing music recording of decent quality
[09:39] <Diablo-D3> edsuom: well, in a system like ubuntu, you use your desktop's cups front end
[09:39] <Diablo-D3> edsuom: both gnome and kde have them
[09:39] <pussfeller> edsuom, I don't like that either, and the kde printer manager is kinda screwed up
[09:39] <edsuom> But why deny me the *option* to use web admin?
[09:39] <Diablo-D3> edsuom: nothing stops you from apt-getting that though
[09:40] <Diablo-D3> who said deny you the option?
[09:40] <pussfeller> i had to change the owneership  of /dev/lp0 
[09:40] <edsuom> The ubuntu package has it disabled, can't enable from cups.conf
[09:40] <Diablo-D3> edsuom: er, it shouldnt
[09:40] <edsuom> pussfeller: Yeah, me too.
[09:40] <pussfeller> i think its disabled in the code itself before it was compiled and shipped
[09:40] <edsuom> Yep.
[09:40] <Diablo-D3> edsuom: the debian package has it enabled
[09:40] <Diablo-D3> edsuom: so I find it hard to believe ubuntu has it off
[09:41] <pussfeller> its off, try it yerself
[09:41] <Diablo-D3> Im a little too busy atm to do that
[09:41] <pussfeller> http://llocalhost:631
[09:41] <edsuom> Well, it is, stupidly enough. I've spent an hour verifying that.
[09:41] <Diablo-D3> pussfeller: that wont help
[09:41] <Diablo-D3> even in debian, you have to enable it first and restart cups
[09:42] <pussfeller> i have restarted cups so many times....
[09:42] <edsuom> Diablo-D3: Same here. No dice.
[09:42] <pussfeller> theres a place to configure the access to it in the cupsd.conf, but it won;t work
[09:43] <edsuom> Oh well, I came from Gentoo where everything is enabled and you can spend untold hours wasting time...
[09:43] <slicnotslak> using hoary hedghog, and i can't find packages like mplayer or flashplugin-nonfree
[09:43] <Diablo-D3> let me check
[09:43] <Diablo-D3> er, guys
[09:43] <slicnotslak> i've uncommented the extre repos in /etc/apt/sources.list,
[09:43] <Diablo-D3> its enabled for me
[09:44] <Diablo-D3> grep /etc/cups/cupds.conf Port 631
[09:44] <slicnotslak> do i need to add a repository or something?
[09:44] <langenberg> Should I consider using Kubuntu for first timers. I'm going to a LAN soon and there are some ppl interested in Linux. I was also considering SUSE. What do you guys think?
[09:45] <Diablo-D3> langenberg: ubuntu or kubuntu are both fine choices
[09:45] <slicnotslak> langenberg: kubuntu is the easiest i've seen yet, it's been 3 years since i've used suse however
[09:45] <Diablo-D3> langenberg: as much as I hate gnome, I'd rcommend ubuntu over kubuntu though
[09:45] <pussfeller> ubuntu has the buxx now man
[09:46] <Diablo-D3> langenberg: it has more polish, and idiot n00bs need polish
[09:46] <pussfeller> yeah, i have to agree
[09:46] <Diablo-D3> langenberg: mainly because they cant read, and have no intelligence whatsoever
[09:46] <langenberg> hahahahaha
[09:46] <Diablo-D3> that, and ubuntu has the best livecd in existance
[09:46] <pussfeller> one could argue, you shouldnt have to read anything... it should just work
[09:46] <langenberg> Well course I prefer KDE (otherwise I wouldn't be here). For first timers Gnome could be a better choice maybe.
[09:46] <pussfeller> or at least pretend its working
[09:47] <Diablo-D3> pussfeller: yeah, but even microsoft hasnt figured out how to do that
[09:47] <pussfeller> they are millions of miles ahead of us
[09:47] <Diablo-D3> even though windows sucks, I cant say microsoft doesnt spend millions every year fixing usability issues
[09:47] <Diablo-D3> thats about all windows has going for it, actually
[09:47] <Diablo-D3> langenberg: its not that gnome is a better desktop environment...
[09:48] <pussfeller> i think the problem with windows outside of MS being a psycho company, is all the commercial software around it
[09:48] <langenberg> But KDE looks more like Windows, and the 'feeling' of the DE gives me more 'freedome'.
[09:48] <krawek> hi
[09:48] <Diablo-D3> langenberg: its just that all the admin tools are still gtk only
[09:48] <Diablo-D3> pussfeller: except commercial software doesnt hold anything over me
[09:48] <langenberg> I find it more progressive, rather than being conservative like gnome.
[09:48] <Diablo-D3> infact, I dont even care if shit is foss or not
[09:48] <Diablo-D3> I go after the better product
[09:48] <pussfeller> too many people selling shitty software to the clueless to do things that theres ussualy a free alternative for
[09:49] <Diablo-D3> and foss 90% of the time has the better product
[09:49] <pussfeller> yeah i was going to type that, thanks
[09:49] <Diablo-D3> the other 10%, it just hasnt created a competing product yet
[09:49] <langenberg> Diablo-D3: I was being afraid of that. I heard it's even better to use synaptic than the Qt ported software.
[09:49] <kkathman> Diablo-D3: for me, though, some win apps are absolutely necessary because there are no corresponding apps in open source that fit the bill
[09:49] <edsuom> Yeah, I spent 5 hrs yesterday trying to get QEMU working so I wouldn't need to use VMware 4.x (I have a license!).
[09:49] <Diablo-D3> like, we're still behind in the dekstop publishing war
[09:49] <pussfeller> ill take mpc anyday over wmp
[09:49] <Diablo-D3> kkathman: yeah
[09:49] <edsuom> I like using foss anytime I can.
[09:49] <Diablo-D3> kkathman: thats the 10%
[09:49] <kkathman> so occasionally I have to resort back :(
[09:49] <kkathman> yeah
[09:50] <Diablo-D3> langenberg: kynaptic or whatever
[09:50] <kkathman> most everything else I can do
[09:50] <Diablo-D3> langenberg: its a kde clone of synaptic
[09:50] <pussfeller> or foobar2000 over winamp
[09:50] <Diablo-D3> winamp actually isnt bad
[09:50] <Diablo-D3> then again, I'm an xmms user
[09:50] <pussfeller> its a beast
[09:50] <kkathman> In the grub, there is this "Kubuntu recovery mode" anyone know what that is?
[09:50] <Diablo-D3> I dunno
[09:50] <pussfeller> thats the failsafe kkathman to get a root shell
[09:50] <Diablo-D3> yeah, its probably the failsafe mode
[09:51] <kkathman> ahh ok pussfeller thanks
[09:51] <langenberg> Diablo-D3: but synaptic > kynaptic ?
[09:51] <kkathman> Dablade was asking and he cant get back to KDE
[09:51] <Diablo-D3> langenberg: not really.
[09:51] <kkathman> hes like lunched it badly
[09:51] <Diablo-D3> langenberg: apt-get/apt-cache > any gui tool
[09:51] <pussfeller> open office seems like it could replace office, but it needs a ton more helper wizards
[09:52] <Diablo-D3> DaBlade should wipe his system and not do whatever he did again
[09:52] <Diablo-D3> pussfeller: guh
[09:52] <DaSkreech> pussfeller: Why?
[09:52] <Diablo-D3> OOo fucking sucks
[09:52] <Diablo-D3> I hate it
[09:52] <Diablo-D3> I hate it worse than microsoft office
[09:52] <pussfeller> its foss... and its an infant still
[09:52] <Diablo-D3> an infant?
[09:52] <kkathman> I dont like Open Office much
[09:52] <pussfeller> relatively speaking
[09:52] <Diablo-D3> dude, its a 300-pound fucking fatass
[09:52] <kkathman> Star Office was much better
[09:52] <NTolerance> does anyone here use the slideshow background feature in KDE?
[09:52] <pussfeller> it needs a real overhaul
[09:52] <Diablo-D3> it sits on your computer and crushes it to death
[09:53] <Diablo-D3> I wish I could get it removed from ubuntu-desktop
[09:53] <Diablo-D3> its something that we simply just dont need
[09:53] <langenberg> Diablo-D3: Well I see myself offering apt-get to some newbies. "Look how easy it is to get new software! You just fire up a xterm and do apt-cache update && apt-get [pkg-name] "
[09:53] <pussfeller> i use kate mostly so maybe I ain't the best judge of things
[09:53] <langenberg> ">Euhm, I want internet!"
[09:53] <Diablo-D3> Euhm? dont even give them the credit of using all four letters
[09:54] <Diablo-D3> Its closer to 'Um'
[09:54] <langenberg> NTolerance: slideshow background future?
[09:54] <NTolerance> yeah, it's in KDE control center
[09:54] <Diablo-D3> btw, I used to be a debian envangilist
[09:54] <NTolerance> it changes your background picture with a timer
[09:54] <pussfeller> another problem with windows is just the closed model its built under... when things under the hood go wrong, you can't get at them easily to fix it
[09:54] <Diablo-D3> I quit because I cant stand stupid noobs
[09:54] <NTolerance> it's cool, but everytime my background changes Firefox mysteriously disappears and i have to restart it
[09:55] <Diablo-D3> NTolerance: sounds like a firefox bug
[09:55] <kkathman> pussfeller: again for Dablade...can't he reinstall Kubuntu and just keep the current partitions when asked, that way the system gets installed but the previous data remains?
[09:55] <NTolerance> :(
[09:55] <NTolerance> i've got 1.0.2
[09:55] <pussfeller> were you one of thos angry debian people
[09:55] <NTolerance> i guess i should upgrade
[09:55] <Diablo-D3> firefox is another app that needs to die
[09:55] <Diablo-D3> pussfeller: Im still angry
[09:55] <pussfeller> :;)
[09:55] <langenberg> NTolerance: I see, well I'll try it.
[09:55] <kkathman> Diablo-D3: you dont like FF??  You like just Konqi
[09:55] <langenberg> firefox, nah
[09:55] <NTolerance> try watching it change your background while firefox is running ,just for shits
[09:55] <pussfeller> no it will wipe it regardless
[09:55] <NTolerance> thx
[09:56] <langenberg> Konqueror owns everthing
[09:56] <Diablo-D3> actually, I hate konqi too
[09:56] <slicnotslak> Diablo-D3: i'm sorry, but as a web developer, i'm going to have to make you take back that statement.  ff IS the best thing since slice bread
[09:56] <Diablo-D3> I'm hoping the safari patches get merged
[09:56] <NTolerance> you just wish there was IE for Linux :D
[09:56] <Diablo-D3> slicnotslak: nope, you cant actually.
[09:56] <pussfeller> ff is pretty cool
[09:56] <Diablo-D3> slicnotslak: my blog is shadowconflict.blogspot.com... compare in firefox and konq
[09:56] <pussfeller> its a hog tho
[09:56] <Diablo-D3> so thats why konq is also on my shitlist
[09:56] <Diablo-D3> it cant render my page perfectly
[09:57] <NTolerance> firefox is slow, for sure, but i can't do without my extensions
[09:57] <kkathman> I orignally used Opera cuz its fast, even on low memory systems. Once I got more memory I use FF also
[09:57] <Diablo-D3> I hate opera
[09:57] <pussfeller> heh
[09:58] <kkathman> I am a web dev too, but I dont necessarily think FF is the best thing since sliced bread
[09:58] <pussfeller> lets see, whats left
[09:58] <kkathman> he likes IE
[09:58] <kkathman> hehe
[09:58] <Diablo-D3> nope, I dont like IE
[09:58] <pussfeller> safari
[09:58] <Diablo-D3> msie performs the worst on my blog
[09:58] <NTolerance> you're a hardcore lynx guy, i can tell
[09:58] <Diablo-D3> infact, it performs so bad, it displays a warning asking to upgrade to firefox
[09:58] <kkathman> if you are a web dev you have to progam to IE cuz its the predominant browser 
[09:58] <Diablo-D3> (for those wondering what Im talking about, load my blog in msie)
[09:58] <pussfeller> no he used wget and cat | grep
[09:59] <Diablo-D3> kkathman: nope
[09:59] <Diablo-D3> msie is not compliant with the internet
[09:59] <Diablo-D3> so I'm free to ignore it
[09:59] <pussfeller> is your page validated
[09:59] <Diablo-D3> yup
[09:59] <kkathman> Diablo-D3: makes no difference its on 96% of the worlds desktops
[09:59] <Diablo-D3> validates fine
[09:59] <kkathman> so you cant ignore it
[09:59] <Diablo-D3> kkathman: so?
[09:59] <pussfeller> brb
[09:59] <Diablo-D3> yes I can ignore it
[09:59] <Diablo-D3> and I am
[09:59] <kkathman> ok
[09:59] <kkathman> but as a web dev I cant
[10:00] <kkathman> I dont use any active-x or that crap
[10:00] <Diablo-D3> I cant support msie anyhow
[10:00] <kkathman> but I have to see what the pages look like in FF and in IE
[10:00] <Diablo-D3> I require browsers to be internet compliant
[10:00] <kkathman> if you design inert enough, its ok
[10:00] <Diablo-D3> and if microsoft fails to follow clearly stated standards, that is no concern to me
[10:00] <kkathman> lol dont you know...MS IS the standard :)
[10:00] <langenberg> kkathman: I like that. Most of the webdevvers don't even care about FF (web standards).
[10:00] <Diablo-D3> kkathman: no
[10:01] <Diablo-D3> w3 is the standard.
[10:01] <kkathman> im kidding Diablo-D3  :)
[10:01] <langenberg> kkathman: altough that has changed since FF became more popular. So that's a good thing.
[10:01] <kkathman> Opera is supposed to be the most w3c compliant browser
[10:01] <Diablo-D3> you better be
[10:01] <Diablo-D3> I was about to kick your ass
[10:01] <Diablo-D3> opera doesnt choke too bad on my blog
[10:01] <Diablo-D3> and I heard 8 actually renders it closely to what it looks like in firefox
[10:02] <kkathman> I keep my web code to CSS1 and low CSS2, and HTML4 minus deprecations
[10:02] <DaSkreech> XHTML!
[10:02] <kkathman> then I use the CSS stuff to make sure that there is a level playing field
[10:02] <Diablo-D3> I'm doing xhtml + css1 + a very small ammount of css2
[10:02] <kkathman> XHTML, blah
[10:03] <kkathman> I learned XHTML ...so I never got into the bad habits of HTML..live leaving things out and not closing tags
[10:04] <kkathman> but there are lots of inconsistencies in gekko and ie browsers that you have to be aware of, even in CSS
[10:05] <Diablo-D3> of course
[10:05] <kkathman>  I just stay away from those things where there are inconsistencies
[10:05] <Diablo-D3> though, they should, say, pass the acid tests
[10:05] <Diablo-D3> well, thats the thing
[10:05] <Diablo-D3> if you design your css flexable enough, those inconsistencies dont bite you in the ass
[10:06] <kkathman> correct a mundo
[10:07] <Diablo-D3> like my blog doesnt do anything that earth shaking
[10:07] <Diablo-D3> and konq in 3.4 almost gets it right
[10:07] <Diablo-D3> and from what I heard, some of the changes in the new batch of safari shit should fix atleast some of it
[10:07] <kkathman> its taken me alot of experimentation...cuz most books and references dont even recognize the variations
[10:07] <kkathman> the Sitepoint book on CSS comes the closest
[10:07] <Diablo-D3> because books are too outdated
[10:07] <Diablo-D3> the internet moves too fast
[10:08] <kkathman> and probably cuz its so new
[10:08] <kkathman> they have two very good books that I have found indispensible
[10:08] <kkathman> on CSS that is
[10:14] <Diablo-D3> heh
[11:13] <dell500> how do you clear the Location bar in Konquer?
[11:23] <nmorse> Has anyone else noticed that KControl hangs and resets back to the default screen if you try to enter administrator mode in the Login Manager kcm?
[11:24] <Tm_T> hm?
[11:24] <nmorse> It can be worked around by using 'sudo kcontrol', but it should work
[11:24] <KaiL> http://moba.linuxfaqs.de/kdelibs-debug.sh << one of the 3 bugs, this script fixes :)
[11:25] <nmorse> Thank you
[11:28] <kkathman> what would we do without you KaiL ??
[11:28] <kkathman> or at least your script :)
[11:28] <KaiL> uhm, go even more on Riddells nerves? :)
[11:28] <kkathman> lol
[11:29] <Tm_T> or make our own scripts ;p
[11:29] <kkathman> we'd have to depend on Tm_T :)
[11:29] <Tm_T> oh no
[11:29] <Tm_T> sounds like nightmare
[11:29] <nmorse> By the way, while you guys are cutting cruft out of KDE, maybe you should get rid of Kile
[11:29] <Tm_T> Kile?
[11:29] <kkathman> Kile?
[11:29] <Tm_T> haha
[11:30] <nmorse> This is the only distribution I know of that installs Kile
[11:30] <nmorse> by default with KDE
[11:30] <nmorse> and yet, no KDevelop?
[11:30] <Tm_T> hmm
[11:31] <Tm_T> nmorse: I have Kdevelop instlled :p
[11:31] <kkathman> whats Kile then... we obvviously have discovered that we dont need it :)
[11:31] <nmorse> But it doesn't come by default
[11:31] <nmorse> Kile is an IDE for Latex
[11:31] <nmorse> Based on Kate, which for some reason is hidden inside the Utilities menu
[11:31] <kkathman> Kdevelop shouldnt be standard, just as Kile shouldnt be then
[11:31] <Tm_T> yes
[11:31] <kkathman> most people that use Linux arent developers I dont think
[11:32] <nmorse> thought I'd point that out before you got too absorbed getting rid of KCM's
[11:32] <Tm_T> haha
[11:32] <kkathman> now RedHat had an interesting approach to that tho...they would ask you in the installation process what "profile" you want...if you wanted "Workstation" it installed developer stuff
[11:32] <edsuom> KaiL: Thanks for the script. Is there a way of having KDE remember my passwd for a while? It gets old typing it 100 times a day in a locked office.
[11:33] <nmorse> anyway, Kile's extroardinarily handy if you need to work with Latex
[11:33] <kkathman> I want my wife to work in Latex 
[11:33] <nmorse> wrote my senior research paper in it
[11:33] <KaiL> lol, normally you don't need the PW that often
[11:33] <Tm_T> edsuom: eh, what who is asking your PW ?
[11:33] <edsuom> Well, I did my install yesterday and I'm getting tempted to put a macro in the kb.
[11:33] <edsuom> Network config, samba config, etc. etc. etc. etc.
[11:33] <nmorse> Used the good old MLA package, which needs to be rewritten, something I'll probably do soon
[11:34] <Tm_T> edsuom: eh, those things have good reason to be behind PW
[11:34] <nmorse> If you rig an extra key to do it in KControl, nobody could just use it to log in to KDM with it either
[11:34] <edsuom> Tm_T: When I just typed it 2 min. ago?!?!?
[11:34] <nmorse> The KDE profile would have to be loaded first
[11:35] <nmorse> You would think KDESU or KDEWallet, whatever does it, would have some memory
[11:35] <Tm_T> yes
[11:35] <Tm_T> Wallet thing
[11:35] <kkathman> I hate that Wallet thing
[11:35] <Tm_T> but I don't know how to use it :p
[11:35] <nmorse> One would actually think KWallet would be perfect for it, as it only asks if you haven't used it in a few minutes
[11:36] <nmorse> KWallet can also be rigged with some pretty nice encryption
[11:36] <nmorse> Crap, if I keep helping you guys work out all this stuff, I'm going to be tempted to join the Kubuntu team
[11:37] <nmorse> Let me see about that KWallet thing though
[11:37] <kkathman> we'll be glad to have you
[11:40] <Tm_T> nmorse: you're not the only one ;p
[11:41] <nmorse> there has to be a way to rig kdesu(do) to access kdewallet
[11:42] <nmorse> kdewallet would more than happily store the password for access, and it can be rigged to start at login
[11:44] <nmorse> Is the kdesu version in Ubuntu a custom version?
[11:45] <confrey> hi everybody
[11:45] <nmorse> or does it handle sudo by default in KDE 3.4?
[11:45] <edsuom> Wait a minute...any user can sudo with his own password?
[11:46] <chavo> nmorse, it's been modified I believe.
[11:46] <nmorse> no, with the password of the first account created
[11:46] <Tm_T> edsuom: well, first user?
[11:46] <Tm_T> I hope not all
[11:46] <edsuom> Not seeing that in sudoers
[11:46] <Tm_T> create another user account and try
[11:47] <nmorse> I personally am much fonder of the good old fashioned root account setup with sudo
[11:47] <confrey> why don't phpgroupware and egroupware work?
[11:47] <Tm_T> nmorse: I use root account, I hate sudo all the time
[11:47] <edsuom> nmorse: Yeah, this sudo crap is one thing the Ubuntu team got wrong, IMHO.
[11:47] <nmorse> Try the normal ubuntu room or forums for that, confrey
[11:47] <Tm_T> :)
[11:47] <nmorse> that would probably be your best bet, at least
[11:48] <chavo> I don't think they got it wrong. It's good for the majority of people.
[11:48] <nmorse> I think not
[11:48] <nmorse> So long as KDM doesn't show root by default and it queries if they're sure they want to log in as root
[11:48] <nmorse> With big, bold, red letters saying it's a security risk
[11:49] <nmorse> But sudo is far superior to su for a lot of things
[11:49] <nmorse> But I really prefer having a root account for many things
[11:50] <nmorse> I think since Kubuntu does a lot of other things different, it should alter the sudo thing to have a root account at least
[11:50] <kkathman> you can enable the root
[11:50] <nmorse> This would of course cause problems with simply converting an Ubuntu system to a Kubuntu system
[11:51] <nmorse> Oh, if there's a simple way to enable root, we should just have the kubuntu packages do it
[11:51] <Tm_T> eh
[11:51] <Tm_T> nmorse: "sudo passwd root" ?
[11:51] <kkathman> well, again, I think that has to do with the marketing slant that ubuntu is going for
[11:52] <kkathman> its not a gentoo system that is predominately for developers
[11:52] <dell500> does anyone know what this error is? Fontconfig error: "~/.fonts.conf", line 1: no element found
[11:52] <Tm_T> dell500: check that file and its first row
[11:52] <Tm_T> row = line
[11:53] <dell500> there's nothing in it
[11:53] <dell500> can i just rm it?
[11:53] <Tm_T> ok
[11:53] <Tm_T> that's the problem then?
[11:53] <nmorse> I'm going to guess the fact that Konsole's root shells don't work is a problem related to sudo?
[11:54] <KaiL> nmorse: uhm?
[11:54] <dell500> k, that worked, thanks
[11:54] <chavo> nmorse, it should work if you enable the root password.
[11:54] <Tm_T> I works fine
[11:54] <KaiL> it neigher wants the user nor the root pw here - hmm
[11:55] <Tm_T> hm?
[11:55] <nmorse> Root password enabled now, and it works
[11:55] <Tm_T> yes
[11:55] <Tm_T> nmorse: so whats the problem?
[11:55] <nmorse> But shouldn't there be a way to use a session that doesn't require you to type sudo every five seconds
[11:55] <nmorse> without using a root pw
[11:55] <Tm_T> nmorse: yes, root console
[11:55] <kkathman> how do you enable root again?
[11:55] <nmorse> you know, like Ubuntu wants it to work
[11:56] <kkathman> I forget...its like sudo su right?
[11:56] <Tm_T> kkathman: "sudo passwd root"
[11:56] <kkathman> ahh thats it
[11:56] <chavo> nmorse, sudo -s -H, will also give you a root session
[11:56] <kkathman> forgot the syntax
[11:56] <Tm_T> heh
[11:56] <nmorse> So, why hasn't Konsole been rigged to do that?
[11:56] <Tm_T> nmorse: there is root Shell
[11:56] <KaiL> because nobody changed the app yet?
[11:56] <KaiL> Riddell: ping?
[11:56] <nmorse> But you have to enable root account to do it
[11:57] <Tm_T> nmorse: ofcourse
[11:57] <Tm_T> because you use it as a root
[11:57] <Riddell> KaiL: hmm?
[11:57] <nmorse> But, shouldn't there be one that works with sudo by default?
[11:57] <Tm_T> nmorse: sudo su ;p
[11:57] <kkathman> I thought sudo su gave you a root session too
[11:57] <Tm_T> yes
[11:57] <nmorse> You know, the way Ubuntu (and by association, Kubuntu) does it
[11:57] <kkathman> what does the -s -H do?
[11:58] <Tm_T> kkathman: man sudo
[11:58] <Tm_T> ;p
[11:58] <nmorse> You know, like in the drop down menu, instead of root session, su or sudo session
[11:58] <kkathman> arghhh
[11:58] <KaiL> Riddell: the root sessing from the dropdownlist in konsole should use sudo
[11:58] <nmorse> doesn't work
[11:58] <KaiL> and not require a root-PW :)
[11:58] <Tm_T> haha
[11:58] <Tm_T> kkathman: ?
[11:58] <kkathman> hehe
[11:58] <Tm_T> what?
[11:58] <Riddell> KaiL: good point
[11:58] <nmorse> just exited when I tried it without root enabled
[11:58] <kkathman> makin me read
[11:58] <kkathman> hehe
[11:58] <KaiL> nmorse found it :)
[11:58] <nmorse> asked for a password, gave it sudo's, doesn't work
[11:59] <Tm_T> kkathman: come on, you can't expect that I read it for you :p
[11:59] <Tm_T> nmorse: ehh, if user need "root session" he will enable root account
[11:59] <Tm_T> nmorse: so where's the problem
[11:59] <kkathman> pffft
[12:00] <kkathman> still didnt tell me why I do that instead of only sudo su
[12:00] <Tm_T> haha
[12:00] <KaiL> Tm_T: you can get a rootshell with sudo, so why not using that?