[12:19] <Nafallo> are there any info on how to write initscripts to be compatible with USplash avalible yet?
[12:44] <jbailey> Nafallo: I think the idea is to use the lsb hooks for the initscripts.
[12:46] <Nafallo> jbailey, yepp. are those log_begin_msg, log_end_msg and the likes?
[12:47] <Nafallo> I want to use locate IRL to find my USB-stick and see if I have a backup of my firewall-init.d ;-)
[12:48] <jbailey> Nafallo: Yup.
[12:48] <jbailey> You might be able to do some other magic with hal and such rather than locate.
[12:48] <jbailey> That way the stick doesn't have to be mounted.
[12:48] <Nafallo> *s*
[12:50] <Nafallo> jbailey, will your idea with iptables.d be implemented soon now that hoary is out? :-)
[12:51] <jbailey> I suggested it for the firewalling bof, but I don't know if that became the proposed solution.
[12:51] <jbailey> Have you looked at the wiki from udu at all
[12:51] <jbailey> ?
[12:51] <Nafallo> jbailey, I had a working script. that's what I try to find. I've reinstalled my server, purging it, since ;-).
[12:52] <Nafallo> jbailey, yepp. I'm rather up2date. there are just so many pages ;-)
[12:52] <Nafallo> jbailey, I'll go check it out again :-).
[12:53] <jbailey> Look for the firewalling stuff
[12:54] <jbailey> It should say where we're going for breezy on it (assuming that it's an approvedspec)
[12:54] <Nafallo>  Status: EditedSpec, DistroSpecification, MattZimmermanQueue
[12:54] <Nafallo> missed that one completly :-P
[12:56] <mako> wow.. a hoary box set: https://www.ixsoft.de/cgi-bin/web_store.cgi?cart_id=2677340_11915
[12:56] <mako> with a free t-shirt :)
[12:57] <Nafallo> mako, nice! :-)
[12:57] <mako> well it's not really free
[12:57] <mako> you pay 20eur and you also get a t-shirt :)
[12:57] <Nafallo> and handbook
[12:57] <mako> really?
[12:57] <mako> i can't read the german
[12:57] <mako> very well
[12:58] <Nafallo> not me either. but Lieferumfang: Box mit CD, dt. Handbuch und T-Shirt, just HAVE to say that :-).
[12:59] <Nafallo> now I see where swedish got that word from ;-).
[01:00] <ogra> mako, hmm, it talks about installation support
[01:00] <mako> handbuch :)
[01:00] <ogra> yep
[01:01] <mako> pretty cool
[01:01] <ogra> i'll order one... to see whats in there....
[01:01] <Nafallo> ogra, :-)
[01:01] <ogra> no idea who wrote a german handbook or why we arent aware of that....
[01:02] <Nafallo> jbailey, I should probably not use iptables.d for future compability in my script I guess? :-)
[01:02] <ogra> hmm, the "features" talk about GNOME 2.9.4
[01:02] <Burgundavia> "OpenOffice is superior to all commercial software packages in this Segement"
[01:03] <jbailey> Nafallo: I still haven't read the bof (doing something else atm), so I don't know. =)
[01:04] <ogra> mako, it also says its 10 cent cheaper then advised by the original manufacturer....
[01:04] <Nafallo> jbailey, hehe. you want a direct link for later? :-)
[01:04] <ogra> Preisempfehlung des Herstellers:  19,90
[01:04] <ogra> Unser Preis:  19,80
[01:05] <ogra> hmm, and it's offered under the term "debian for the desktop", funny
[01:06] <Nafallo> hehe. I just LOVE hoary for my server :-)
[01:06] <Nafallo> haven't needed to go outside main yet ;-)
[01:07] <ogra> oh, and manufacturer is "OpenSourceFactory"
[01:08] <jbailey> Nafallo: Sure. =)
[01:08] <Nafallo> jbailey, msg :-)
[01:09] <jbailey> tx
[01:10] <jbailey> Nafallo: Ah, nice.  It didn't change much from the bof I attended then.
[01:10] <Nafallo> jbailey, I do hope that level-configs can be made from console though...
[01:13] <Nafallo> lol. just found my usb-stick ;-)
[01:13] <ogra> night all
[01:13] <astharot> ciao
[01:13] <jbailey> g'n ogra =)
[01:14] <Nafallo> ogra, bye
[01:14] <astharot> ogra: news about community council ?
[01:15] <Nafallo> hmm
[01:15] <Nafallo> gparted should have warned me about erasing my usbkey when converting the filesystem... :-P
[01:28] <tseng> hi all.
[01:28] <Nafallo> hi tseng :-)
[01:31] <tseng> holy crap i have a real net connection
[01:32] <|QuaD-> tseng: that means the uploading can begin :)
[01:32] <tseng> erm
[01:32] <tseng> oh man evolution is installable too
[01:33] <|QuaD-> :)
[01:33] <jbailey> Hey, I've never noticed "Al Gore Ithm"
[01:33] <jbailey> creepy.
[01:33] <jbailey> (Who needs drugs, you can just change timezons)
[01:34] <|QuaD-> my algorithm teacher put that on one of our assignments once :)
[01:39] <infinity> jbailey : Were you still keen on doing the samba merge?
[01:40] <jbailey> infinity: For some value of keen.
[01:40] <jbailey> infinity: I'm still willing to do it, since I have a bug that the merge will fix.
[01:40] <jbailey> infinity: It won't be today though.  Tomorrow's not looking so good.
[01:40] <infinity> Heh.
[01:40] <jbailey> Day after, almost certainly though.
[01:40] <infinity> jbailey : Well, if I do it today, I'll close your bug.
[01:40] <jbailey> infinity: Tx.
[01:40] <infinity> jbailey : Otherwise, I'll leave the whole mess for you.
[01:41] <jbailey> infinity: luvly.
[01:42] <Nafallo> hmm
[01:42] <Nafallo> Karma? :-P
[01:59] <mdz> are there any UDU photos up yet?
[02:00] <tseng> i have some I can post in a few minutes
[02:01] <tseng> i dont have any gallery software setup yet, it will be raw
[02:02] <dilinger> raw, uncensored UDU?
[02:02] <tseng> yeah
[02:02] <tseng> like, your keyboard
[02:02] <jbailey> dilinger: I think that was Friday night at the Stonewall..
[02:02] <astharot> mdz: news about community council ?
[02:02] <dilinger> jbailey: i went to bed before midnight.  i'm an old fart.
[02:03] <mdz> astharot: what about it?
[02:03] <astharot> mdz: the date
[02:03] <mdz> mako would be the best person to ask
[02:03] <mdz> assuming you already checked the wiki page
[02:03] <jbailey> dilinger: I stayed up late but decided that I couldn't cope with the smoke.  It gives me hangovers worse than the alcohol does.
[02:03] <astharot> mdz: yes
[02:04] <astharot> pitti this morning told me that it will be decided when you'll come back home ;P
[02:04] <astharot> The next meeting of the Council will be on Apr 13th 2005 at 0400 UTC.
[02:05] <mdz> astharot: I don't set the schedule for Community Council meetings; the Community Council does
[02:05] <astharot> ok
[02:05] <astharot> :)
[02:15] <tseng> ok dudes, can anyone rebuild libaspell15?
[02:15] <tseng> it has unresolved symbols atm, maybe from glibc
[02:16] <zul> hey
[02:16] <tseng> good test cases are tomboy (create new note) or running gedit from bash
[02:18] <mako> astharot: yeah.. we need to plan a new cc meeting
[02:18] <mako> astharot: let me ping the other members
[02:18] <astharot> mako: eheh ok :)
[02:38] <Nafallo> night all!
[02:48] <lamont> mdz: you around?
[03:32] <blahrus> lamont: what packages do you work on?
[03:37] <cc> lamont: hey, thanks for sending my little gift up to the room the other day. much appreciated!
[03:41] <lamont> blahrus: everything that {Depends,Recommends,Suggests}: .* | mail-transport-agent
[03:41] <lamont> well, in main
[03:41] <lamont> cc: was no issue at all
[03:41] <blahrus> lamont: cool ;)
[03:41] <BeerDump> good morning
[03:42] <jsgotangco> hey lamont how was your flight
[03:44] <lamont> jsgotangco: _LONG_
[03:44] <lamont> but otherwise uneventful
[03:44] <lamont> even customs went quickly
[03:44] <lamont> which left me 2.5 hours to kill in SFO, but hey.. :-(
[03:44] <jsgotangco> hehe
[03:44] <jsgotangco> i just arrived yesterday at home
[03:48] <lamont> then remembers that one of them is trivial
[03:48] <mdz> lamont: yes
[03:49] <lamont> mdz: you want the seeds changed once nothing in base or desktop need spostfix?
[03:49] <mdz> lamont: yes
[03:49] <lamont> ok.
[03:50] <lamont> fetchmail and subversion are ftbfs, maybe courier.  will update seeds, push new ubuntu-meta, and then go on a 'missing Depends of ubuntu-{base,desktop} merge crusade'
[03:51] <lamont> mdz: delta is: mailx,mutt,lsb,postfix->ship (and postfix-tls goes away completely)
[03:52] <lamont> hrm... /me needs to upload a good postfix first
[04:05] <jsgotangco> whiprush, ping?
[04:06] <whiprush> pong
[04:08] <schweeb> whiprush: either go to sleep, or stop whining about being sick :p
[04:08] <whiprush> heh
[04:09] <ajmitch_> hi jsgotangco, have a nice flight home?
[04:12] <jdub> hey dudes
[04:12] <jsgotangco> ajmitch_, hey, i had a good flight yeah just arrived last night
[04:12] <jsgotangco> jdub, hey hey hey
[04:12] <ajmitch_> hey jdub 
[04:12] <jsgotangco> jdub, i got myself intentionally lost in the CBD after we separated
[04:13] <jdub> jsgotangco: haha
[04:14] <jsgotangco> i asked one of the cops and he has no clue where rushcutters bay is
[04:14] <jsgotangco> that made me laugh
[04:14] <jdub> haha
[04:15] <jsgotangco> its so funny i asked the newstands and the people at 7-11 and they have no clue of streets outside the cbd
[04:26] <ajmitch_> lamont: I got mail from you about my key, without the signed key attached
[04:27] <lamont> ajmitch: yeah - there's a bug in the script... I'm gonna probably have to send out a blastogram asking people if they got the key in the mail, then figure out what happened with the script
[04:29] <jdub> hrm
[04:29] <jdub> what's our current policy on rebuild-only uploads?
[04:29] <jdub> tseng has requested an upload of libaspell15
[04:31] <lamont> jdub: if it's currently failed, you kick lamont and he requeues it.  If it's in the archive, and needs to be rebuilt, then you do a no-source-change upload
[04:31] <lamont> well, no change other than the changelog entry, of course.
[04:31] <jdub> lamont: nmu style version number?
[04:32] <lamont> jdub: wait
[04:32] <lamont> does the package currently have an 'ubuntu' in its version number?
[04:32] <jdub> Version: 0.60.2+20050121-2
[04:32] <lamont> if yes, then bump that...
[04:32] <lamont> in your case...
[04:33] <lamont> I _believe_ that we chose: 0.60.2+20050121-2build0
[04:33] <lamont> that is, all the debian version numbers are taken (by debian, for futures...).  ubuntu version numbers make elmo cry, since the next debian upload should just auto-sync.
[04:34] <lamont> elmo still needs to teach the auto-sync stuff to be happy.  /me struggles to remember _which_ BOF that was discussed in - sometime thur or later.
[04:34] <lamont> jdub: on the todo list is 'find all the ubuntu packages that differ from debian in only the changelog, and fix that'
[04:42] <dholbach> morning
[04:46] <jsgotangco> i still want to sleep
[04:47] <jsgotangco> my back is aching all over
[04:47] <dholbach> hey jsgotangco 
[04:47] <jsgotangco> dholbach, hey how was your flight?
[04:47] <dholbach> jsgotangco: i just woke up at 04:00
[04:48] <dholbach> jsgotangco: still a bit confused, time-wise... i could have done with a bit more of sleep, but it was alright, how was yours?
[04:49] <jsgotangco> dholbach, i just arrived last night, only an 8 hour flight but after our farewells at the hotel, we had lunch with jdub and crew and I intentionally got myself lost at the CBD
[04:51] <jsgotangco> its fun having no clue where to go
[04:53] <dholbach> jsgotangco: now your back hurts?
[04:53] <jsgotangco> oh that's another story
[04:55] <jsgotangco> anyway i woke up too early today hehe
[04:55] <dholbach> :-)
[04:56] <ajmitch_> it was hard to get up for work this morning :)
[04:57] <jsgotangco> aye
[05:04] <bluefoxicy> is something broken in breezy that now when Istick a USB pen drive in no /dev/sda entry appear
[05:04] <jdub> bluefoxicy: yes
[05:05] <bluefoxicy> jdub:  alright, thought I had damaged my system in the last power drop and was trying to replace most of my packages to fix it.
[05:05] <bluefoxicy> (synaptic crashes if you try)
[05:06] <dholbach> hey jdub 
[05:06] <bluefoxicy> jdub:  out of curiousity and need to get a piece of data on pen, any work-around?
[05:06] <bluefoxicy> i.e. mknod major/minor?
[05:06] <jdub> morning dholbach 
[05:07] <jdub> bluefoxicy: hrm, haven't tried - that might work
[05:07] <bluefoxicy> it does.
[05:08] <bluefoxicy> the major is 8, minor is the partition (0 for whole device), and type is block of course.
[05:09] <dholbach> hey jblack 
[05:09] <jblack> Hello. I'm looking at the project "aspell-en" that you guys asked to be imported. as best as I can tell, its a part of aspell -- even shares the same cvs. So what's up? 
[05:09] <dholbach> jblack: you arrived finally? :-)
[05:09] <ajmitch_> hi jblack 
[05:09] <jblack> yeah.
[05:09] <jblack> Hi ajmitch
[05:10] <ajmitch_> bluefoxicy: modprobe sd_mod
[05:12] <bluefoxicy> aj:  I have that already
[05:12] <bluefoxicy> it's just not autoloading
[05:13] <dholbach> jblack: are two soruce packages with the same CVS problematic?
[05:13] <dholbach> s/soruce/source
[05:13] <bluefoxicy> oh wow, it does now
[05:13] <jblack> well, as far as I can tell from savannah, they're the same thing.
[05:13] <bluefoxicy> it autoloaded the module when I mknod'd the device earlier?
[05:13] <bluefoxicy> ajmitch: thanks.
[05:13] <jblack> I'm new to doing imports, but my limited understanding is that we'd end up with two differently named products with the exact same sources. Not very useful. :( 
[05:14] <dholbach> jblack: they seem to be packaged as two different source packages, two make binary updates different from the actual dictionary
[05:15] <dholbach> s/binary updates/updates of the binary
[05:15] <bluefoxicy> man :/
[05:15] <jblack> Hmmm. I'm able to find aspell at savannah, but not aspell-en
[05:15] <bluefoxicy> I want a tool that'll generate a livecd for me.  I'll just master my own later when I have several hours on hand but eh
[05:16] <bluefoxicy> I wanna make a proper Ubuntu Hoary Live CD with a load of security tools on it
[05:16] <jsgotangco> i should go home early and sleep
[05:16] <bluefoxicy> security/rescue/utility, for a swiss army knife :)
[05:16] <dholbach> bluefoxicy: there's a howto on the wiki
[05:16] <jblack> dholbach: here's a good test for you. Where is the module for aspell-en, and what module is it? 
[05:16] <jblack> where is the cvs, and what is the module? 
[05:17] <bluefoxicy> dholbach:  several hours of work
[05:18] <dholbach> bluefoxicy: most of the guys in here didnt mind several hours of work... maybe you could speed up the process at some stage
[05:18] <bluefoxicy> dholbach:  it's for me having to do things like unpacking and repacking stuff on the CD manually, then keying a 50000 character mkisofs line
[05:18] <bluefoxicy> and making a compressed fs and such
[05:19] <bluefoxicy> dholbach:  i could write a script for it but eh.
[05:19] <bluefoxicy> I suggested at a point that a possible future utility be a liveCD generator based on sets of packages and files to add to the CD after the packages were installed
[05:19] <bluefoxicy> but it was shot down because "nobody needs that"
[05:20] <blahrus> not sure what you have all looked into for a bootsplash, but I am running splashy right now and it works great and is not a resouce hog
[05:20] <bluefoxicy> TBH I'm lazy, but I also think giving many people the tools to do it easily would take the weight off of people who have better things to do than repetedly go through tons of crap involved in remastering a livecd 
[05:20] <bluefoxicy> more focus could be put on finding a reason to remaster livecds
[05:20] <dholbach> i just wanted to state, that stating "it takes too much time", isnt helpful... i can imagine, that people work on things they more desperately want to see in ubuntu
[05:21] <bluefoxicy> like mythtv livecds, or security, disaster recovery, instant routers, etc
[05:21] <bluefoxicy> dholbach:  I know but I'm not a dev :)
[05:21] <bluefoxicy> at least
[05:21] <bluefoxicy> not when I have a job and college
[05:22] <jsgotangco> so am i but it doesnt stop me i have a dayjob as well
[05:22] <bluefoxicy> jsgotangco:  good to know you don't m-- . . . spend time reading slashdot?
[05:23] <dholbach> bluefoxicy: telling people what they should is just wrong in the open source world :-/
[05:23] <bluefoxicy> dholbach:  and there's a bugzilla why?  :)
[05:23] <dholbach> ...
[05:23] <bluefoxicy> more pertainently, an "enhancement" severity level
[05:24] <bluefoxicy> there's nothing wrong with telling people what you want or making an argument
[05:24] <bluefoxicy> it's fine until it gets to the point where you're raising hell and trying to force people to do what you want in some antisocial way
[05:24] <fabbione> morning
[05:24] <dholbach> i think most of us got your point by now... but it's more helpful to just start writing that script and not saying "TBH i'm lazy"
[05:25] <bluefoxicy> i'll figure something out
[05:25] <bluefoxicy> when I get around to it.
[05:25] <jsgotangco> theres no rush :)
[05:27] <jdub> mjg59: ping
[05:28] <lifeless> win 60
[05:31] <jdub> ~.
[05:31] <jdub> heh
[05:33] <dholbach> jblack: where did you find aspell-en in there?
[05:36] <jblack> the info files, which doesn't list cvs at all, list savannah. when I go to savannah, there's no aspell-en, but there is jus an aspell
[05:40] <dholbach> hrm
[05:43] <schweeb> BeerDump?  should that be like "put beer here! *gestures towards mouth*"
[05:43] <BeerDump> yeah
[05:43] <BeerDump> redbull looks so much like beer too with the bubbles and all
[05:44] <schweeb> heh
[05:45] <schweeb> redbull plus vodka is even more similar to beer :)
[05:48] <BeerDump> that would come handy now
[06:02] <charles> yay nigger developement!!!
[06:02] <charles> ubuntu=nigger right?
[06:02] <tseng> dude, fuck off
[06:03] <charles> im black dude
[06:03] <schweeb> wtf
[06:03] <charles> i dont care
[06:03] <fabbione> i do
[06:03] <schweeb> fabbione: u-motu now too
[06:04] <fabbione> schweeb: i don't have op on motu afaik
[06:04] <schweeb> :(
[06:04] <fabbione> sorry :/
[06:04] <schweeb> hrm
[06:05] <schweeb> <3 dholbach
[06:06] <fabbione> schweeb: try to ping lilo
[06:07] <fabbione> only sladen and riddel are ops there
[06:07] <schweeb> fabbione: dholbach resolved the situation
[06:07] <fabbione> ok
[06:07] <schweeb> although he's probably in #ubuntu now
[06:08] <schweeb> no, but he's in  just about every other ubuntu channel
[06:08] <tseng> oh man
[06:18] <BeerDump> lunch bbl
[06:18] <tseng> Lathiat: were you the one talking about improving evolution imap?
[06:18] <tseng> Lathiat: something about sorting the folders
[06:28] <Lathiat> tseng: ermm
[06:28] <Lathiat> tseng: dont think so
[06:28] <Lathiat> i was whinging about it implementation sucking. :)
[06:28] <Lathiat> tseng: have you tried 'imap4rev1', its better
[06:29] <tseng> yes
[06:29] <tseng> someone said something about changing the ordering of the folders iirc
[06:29] <tseng> mine are coming up alphabetically with rev1 rather than inbox as a special folder at the top
[06:30] <Lathiat> oh, interesting
[06:31] <Lathiat> my INBOX's appear as a special one
[06:31] <Lathiat> maybes its confued and you have a folder called inbox
[06:31] <tseng> it says i do
[06:31] <tseng> but i dont
[06:31] <Lathiat> as well as whatever your imap serverr thinks is INBOX
[06:31] <Lathiat> (/var/mail/$user usually)
[06:31] <Lathiat> hrm
[06:31] <Lathiat> interesting
[06:31] <tseng> well, i have .INBOx
[06:32] <tseng> yeah i think its the server
[06:41] <tseng> Lathiat: fixed it
[06:42] <Lathiat> cool
[06:43] <tseng> had to edit .subscriptions to trick it
[06:43] <tseng> Inbox vs INBOX
[06:43] <Lathiat> ah ok
[06:43] <Lathiat> what imap server?
[06:43] <tseng> dovecot
[06:43] <Lathiat> hrm, my dovecot is INBOX
[06:43] <tseng> or dovecrack atm
[06:43] <Lathiat> i have 3 dovecot servers and they all play happy
[06:44] <tseng> is your inbox .maildir/cur or .maildir/.INBOX
[06:44] <tseng> i had .INBOX with stuff in it was the problem
[06:45] <tseng> meh, my bad
[06:46] <Lathiat> oh
[06:46] <Lathiat> i dont use maildir
[06:46] <tseng> oh
[06:46] <Lathiat> and y INBOX is /var/mail/INBXO rather than a folder
[06:46] <tseng> I see
[06:46] <Lathiat> .. s/INBXO/lathiat
[06:46] <tseng> better sleep, cya
[06:46] <Lathiat> cya
[06:51] <dholbach> hey mvirkkil 
[06:51] <dholbach> hey mvo
[06:52] <mvo> morning everyone
[06:52] <lamont> morning mvo
[06:52] <mvo> morning lamont! did you had a good trip back?
[06:53] <lamont> yes
[06:58] <lamont> elmo about?
[07:05] <ajmitch> hi mvo, mpt
[07:06] <mvo> hey ajmitch
[07:06] <cc> hey, hey everyone :P
[07:06] <ajmitch> cc! :)
[07:07] <dholbach> hey cc 
[07:07] <ajmitch> mvo: does python-apt depend on a newer libapt than aptitude currently wants?
[07:09] <mvo> ajmitch: not in ubuntu ... do you get some sort of error when trying to install?
[07:10] <ajmitch> mvo: just trying to go sid->breezy, so I've got a few things to fix up or upgrade :)
[07:11] <dholbach> fix rather ;-)
[07:14] <ajmitch> apt pinning will take care of most of it
[07:14] <mvo> ajmitch: you will need the apt version from breezy (that is identical to the one in hoary right now)
[07:15] <jblack> Hey, anybody know why uucp was removed? 
[07:16] <dholbach> jblack: removed?
[07:16] <jblack> removed.
[07:17] <BeerDump> mvo, hey how are you
[07:18] <dholbach> jblack: it seems to be in the archive...
[07:18] <jblack> This hit me when I installed a hoary cd today. Said uucp was removed because 'cu did everything uucp did'. 
[07:19] <jblack> (which isn't true) 
[07:19] <dholbach> seems you should have a talk with Peter Palfrader <weasel@debian.org>
[07:20] <mvo> hey jsgotangco! I feel pretty good, I hope the jetlag will not hit me today
[07:20] <jblack> Perhaps. uucp adds stuff like uupoll, which, afaik, cu doesn't do.
[07:21] <dholbach> brb
[07:21] <jblack> perhaps cu does what uupoll does, but it doesn't seem to read /etc/uucp/sys
[07:30] <mpt> hi ajmitch
[07:37] <jsgotangco> who has some UDU pics online?
[07:37] <Simira> Mithrandir's will be up in few minutes, rumor says
[07:38] <jsgotangco> goodie
[07:40] <jblack> let me free up some diskspace, and then I'll put mine up
[07:41] <jsgotangco> yay i'm trying to get some stuff for my album
[07:44] <jblack> I desperaately need another hard rdive.
[07:53] <fabbione> hey ogra
[07:54] <Simira> mornin fabbione
[07:54] <fabbione> hi Simira 
[07:55] <Mithrandir> hello people
[07:55] <infinity> Hey Mithrandir.
[07:55] <infinity> doko : Alive?
[07:55] <fabbione> hye mith
[07:56] <fabbione> hi infinity 
[07:56] <doko> infinity: yes, waking up early ...
[07:56] <infinity> doko : Ouch. :)
[07:56] <fabbione> i guess jbailey is not awke yet
[07:58] <lamont> fabbione: more like "has gone to sleep"
[07:58] <fabbione> yeah
[07:58] <lamont> is either 2300 or 0200 at his place - can't remember which...
[07:58] <lamont> hrm... 0200, I'm pretty sure
[07:58] <lamont> Kamion: you awake yet?
[07:59] <fabbione> time to do some gpg dance
[07:59] <jsgotangco> heh
[08:00] <jsgotangco> spare pics...spare pics please...
[08:00] <jblack> jsgotangco: Patience my man. It takes time to upload dozens of pics at 3 megs a piece.
[08:01] <jsgotangco> ouch
[08:03] <Lathiat> mercury?
[08:03] <jblack> 300 megs of pics. :) 
[08:03] <jblack> lathiat: one of my servers here at home. the primary.
[08:04] <Lathiat> ah right
[08:04] <jsgotangco> i should get a new camera
[08:04] <jblack> Once a day it was a nice machine. These days its a 2ghz machine with only a half gig of ram. 
[08:05] <Lathiat> my server is a p200 so count your blessings. :)
[08:05] <jblack> once apon a time, that is.
[08:05] <mvo> elmo: can you please sync findutils from debian (overriding our changes is ok)
[08:06] <jsgotangco> 42
[08:07] <Lathiat> don't forget your towel
[08:07] <Lathiat> i should go see that tonight
[08:07] <jblack> 96 pics uploaded, now resizing 96 pics
[08:09] <mdz> jblack: how did the group photo turn out?
[08:09] <fabbione> hey mdz
[08:09] <mdz> fabbione: morning
[08:10] <jblack> mdz: Looking now
[08:10] <infinity> mdz : Speaking of; the next time someone wants to do group photos, give me some warning.  I had a mess of equipment upstairs, including an SLR with a remote control.
[08:11] <jblack> mdz: pretty good. :) 
[08:11] <jblack> But I'm not in it, so pretty bad. ;( 
[08:11] <jsgotangco> doh
[08:11] <jsgotangco> that group photo was good
[08:11] <mvo> elmo: please mergs gsfonts from debian (the ubuntu changes are now in debian)
[08:11] <Lathiat> poor elmo
[08:12] <jblack> mdz:  private pong
[08:13] <lamont> mdz: want to review what I did to ubuntu-meta (base seed appears to have split into base & standard --> new meta package)
[08:14] <jblack> Ok. here we go. http://gallery.linuxguru.net/UbuntuDownUnder-4-2005
[08:14] <jblack> please be kind. its dsl. 
[08:15] <mvo> lamont: is the name set (base & standard)? I was wondering if we could use something like "ubuntu-essential" so that ubuntu-base keeps what it is now
[08:16] <fabbione> elmo: please sync aoetools from Debian. go for override
[08:17] <jblack> I can never remember kiko's name.
[08:18] <fabbione> Criss
[08:18] <lamont> mvo: that's part of why I want some review on ubuntu-meta...
[08:18] <lamont> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/ubuntu-meta/ubuntu-meta-0.44.mta
[08:19] <pitti> Morning
[08:19] <fabbione> hey pitti
[08:20] <dholbach> hey pitti 
[08:20] <lamont> mvo: note also that this upload breaks ubuntu-meta on ia64 :-(
[08:20] <mdz> infinity: I didn't have any more advance warning than you did, and the light was fading fast :-)
[08:21] <mvo> morning pitti 
[08:22] <infinity> mdz : I think I had enough master/slave flash equipment to even counteract the light issue. :)
[08:22] <infinity> mdz : Next time, I suppose I should advertise that I travel with a small studio.
[08:22] <jsgotangco> jblack, gracias
[08:23] <jsgotangco> whoa the group photo is awesome
[08:23] <Mithrandir> note to self: do not flash infty in the eyes with puny small compact cameras.  His revenge will be sweet.
[08:24] <bob2> haha
[08:24] <jsgotangco> heh
[08:24] <bob2> he'll chase you around and beat you with an x40!
[08:25] <infinity> (thom's)
[08:26] <fabbione> jblack: where is the pic we had together?
[08:27] <jblack> that's what I've got? 
[08:28] <fabbione> jblack: ok :) i remember we took a pic together :)
[08:32] <fabbione> lamont: did it boot?
[08:32] <jblack> That's enough caption editing for now.
[08:33] <lamont> fabbione: that was actually booting to get rid of the APIC errors that were keeping klogd looping
[08:33] <lamont> and filling the disk, etc.
[08:34] <pitti> Hey infinity 
[08:34] <lamont> May  2 22:12:42 mix kernel: APIC error on CPU0: 40(40)
[08:34] <lamont> May  2 22:13:13 mix last message repeated 84 times
[08:34] <lamont> May  2 22:14:13 mix last message repeated 212 times
[08:34] <lamont> May  2 22:15:14 mix last message repeated 214 times
[08:36] <jblack> How is the server holding up? 
[08:37] <pitti> Mithrandir: here?
[08:38] <fabbione> lamont: is that with 12rc3 ?
[08:40] <Mithrandir> pitti: pong
[08:41] <mvo> elmo: please sync foomatic-filters from debian (our patch is now included upstream)
[08:50] <Lathiat> i think someone needs to start a list somewhere
[08:51] <Lathiat> ive seen at leat 10 requests go past today on irc. :)
[08:53] <mdz> amu: you took the other group photo, yes?
[08:54] <Lathiat> fabbione: whys that?
[08:54] <fabbione> this country is insane
[08:54] <fabbione> they just add 8% more taxes with validity from 1 Jul 2004
[08:54] <fabbione> without any notice
[08:55] <fabbione> so everybody working for a foreign company needs to pay heaps load of money now
[08:55] <fabbione> they are retarded
[08:55] <fabbione> ok i need to go off for a while and boil down
[08:55] <fabbione> this is frigging insane
[08:57] <Lathiat> fabbione: :(
[09:00] <lamont> fabbione: 2.6.10-5-<whatever final hoary is>
[09:21] <GheRivero> res
[09:22] <dholbach> jdub: ping
[09:29] <Lathiat> any major breakage atm?
[09:30] <p0m> I heard of some, but can't recall them off-hand.
[09:32] <p0m> Ahh, here we are.
[09:32] <p0m> ubuntu-desktop won't install unless you disable universe.
[09:33] <p0m> And something about vermagic.
[09:33] <pitti> Hi sivang 
[09:33] <p0m> They don't seem to be major Lathiat.
[09:34] <Lathiat> yeh i mean tlike major application breakage. :)
[09:34] <sivang> morning pitti, what's up?
[09:34] <p0m> Lathiat: Evolution's apparently broken, and there's GCC4.0, go figure :)
[09:35] <p0m> And from my irc logs, there's at least one complaint about an initrd bug.
[09:35] <Lathiat> evolution was fixed, an dyeh ik now about gcc4, its ok. :)
[09:35] <p0m> Never found out what that bug was.
[09:51] <fabbione> infinity: ping?
[09:58] <Kamion> lamont: morning. please don't do ubuntu-meta yet
[09:58] <lamont> Kamion: wasn't planning to...
[09:59] <lamont> my seed changes are committed, though
[09:59] <lamont> so whoever does ubuntu-meta will incorporate them, perforce
[09:59] <Kamion> mdz: we never quite got the names sorted out - {minimal,base} maybe? I don't like "essential" for the first bit because it isn't quite just "Essential: yes"
[09:59] <mdz> Kamion: I don't like "essential" either
[10:00] <Kamion> yay for jetlag, you two aren't normally around when I get up :-)
[10:00] <Mithrandir> *chuckle*
[10:00] <Mithrandir> hi Colin
[10:01] <lamont> Kamion: actually, I've been babysitting a kernel build, for the last little bit... finally did the commit
[10:01] <lamont> only been up for 20 hours at this point - should really go to bed soon
[10:08] <seb128> elmo: thanks
[10:08] <dholbach> hey seb128 
[10:09] <seb128> morning daniel :)
[10:10] <lamont> Kamion: how about core instead of essential?
[10:11] <sivang> hey seb128
[10:11] <seb128> hi sivang 
[10:11] <seb128> I've not replied to your mail but the wiki is updated
[10:12] <dholbach> seb128: GNOME team: http://gallery.linuxguru.net/UbuntuDownUnder-4-2005/img_0278 :-)
[10:12] <seb128> about the launchpad bof
[10:12] <sivang> seb128: yes, I've seen it, however it's rather minimalistic spec don't you think? ;-)
[10:12] <seb128> dholbach: hum, I look a bit sleeping on this one :)
[10:13] <seb128> sivang: what do you want to change ? comments are welcome
[10:13] <Kamion> lamont: I can live with core
[10:13] <sivang> seb128: sure, btw, I had a feeling we are going to revert to a centeralized app to do it rather then patching 200 apps/libs ;-)
[10:13] <mdz> Kamion: otoh, I also dislike having the smallest set be something other than 'base'
[10:13] <lamont> dholbach: nah - it just takes forever to build
[10:13] <Kamion> mdz: likewise - I think we're stuck with it though, due to the metapackage thing
[10:14] <mdz> Kamion: didn't we decide that we could have ubuntu-<foo> depend on ubuntu-base?
[10:14] <Kamion> mdz: doesn't help
[10:14] <seb128> sivang: any objection with the BOF specs ?
[10:14] <lamont> Kamion: couldn't base Depend: core?
[10:14] <Kamion> mdz: for people who only have ubuntu-base/hoary installed, they'll want to get ubuntu-<whateverreplacesbase>/breezy
[10:14] <seb128> rahh, my fonts look ugly with the new fontconfig
[10:15] <ogra> morning
[10:15] <Kamion> lamont: yes, it works provided that ubuntu-base retains its current semantics
[10:15] <Kamion> I share mdz's dislike of base not being the smallest set - I brought it up at the BOF too
[10:15] <sivang> morning ogra
[10:15] <lamont> yeah - annoying
[10:15] <Kamion> but I don't see a better way :(
[10:15] <lamont> doko: this is on debian...
[10:15] <Kamion> base-installer would probably still say "installing base system", too
[10:16] <mdz> Kamion: we could avoid adding new packages to whateverreplacesbase in breezy
[10:16] <Kamion> how about we stop using base altogether?
[10:16] <Kamion> call them core and standard, and have ubuntu-base be transitional
[10:16] <Kamion> or minimal and standard, or whatever
[10:17] <mdz> I could live with that
[10:17] <Kamion> then it won't break people's brains when base-installer still says "installing base system"
[10:17] <lamont> Kamion: that actually sounds kinda nice...
[10:17] <mdz> base -> standard, create minimal, and have ubuntu-base depends: ubuntu-standard, ubuntu-minimal
[10:17] <Kamion> as long as we don't try to split minimal up again in the future, it works :-)
[10:17] <mdz> s/in the future/in breezy/
[10:17] <Kamion> (ubuntu-standard would depend on ubuntu-minimal anyway, I'm guessing)
[10:18] <mdz> it would?
[10:18] <mdz> we don't do that with the current metapackages
[10:18] <lamont> no reason that it shouldn't, other than the weight of tradition
[10:18] <sladen> fabbione: just ask chanserv for ops
[10:18] <lamont> well, maybe _some_ reason... but not sure I 100% buy it
[10:19] <Burgundavia> sladen, you want to join #ubuntu-doc to discuss wiki/sudo stuff?
[10:19] <Kamion> mdz: I think it should, though I don't feel strongly about it
[10:19] <sladen> ogra: I have masses more that RootSudo one but it didn't merge when I clicked save
[10:19] <ogra> sladen, got a backup ?
[10:20] <mdz> lamont: with the current scheme, one can remove a base package, and still get updates to desktop
[10:20] <sladen> ogra: I saved it on the laptop, need to paste it again when I have bandiwdth that isn't a windows machine
[10:20] <lamont> right
[10:20] <ogra> sladen, i think its still editable
[10:20] <doko> lamont: the buildd doesn't have the build logs yet
[10:20] <Kamion> mdz: I guess
[10:20] <lamont> not having standard Depend: core means that base has to stick around for a bit, to Depend: both of them
[10:21] <ogra> sladen, has Burgundavia talked to you ? 
[10:21] <Kamion> ok, shall I 'baz mv base minimal' then, and we can get fixing?
[10:21] <lamont> doko: gcc/p/test is still building
[10:21] <ogra> sladen, he wanted to tweak the RootSudo wikipage too, i asked him to talk to you first
[10:22] <lamont> Kamion: btw, once you get a new ubuntu-meta uploaded, we'll want a new debootstrap too, since postfix is now ship-seed... then mdz can test the love.
[10:22] <lamont> s/mdz/I/
[10:22] <Kamion> lamont: yep, naturally :)
[10:22] <Kamion> there are a bunch of changes debootstrap needs to pick up
[10:22] <lamont> sure looked like it
[10:26] <sladen> Burgundavia: tweak away, I'
[10:26] <sladen> Burgundavia: tweak away, I'll merge it later anyway
[10:26] <Burgundavia> actually, I am looking for the whole plan
[10:29] <Amaranth> so...was seb128 just really busy or UDU or was he uploading lots of things to debian? :)
[10:29] <Amaranth> s/or UDU/at UDU/
[10:30] <Mithrandir> we didn't have bandwidth.
[10:30] <Lathiat> fwoar, autosync went nuts
[10:30] <Mithrandir> you should have seen him, walking around: "I need to upload, I need to upload.".  Scary. :P
[10:30] <Amaranth> that must have been painful
[10:30] <Amaranth> haha
[10:30] <Lathiat> Mithrandir: haha
[10:31] <Amaranth> hey, now he can make up for it. :D
[10:31] <Lathiat> doesnt he go into withdrawl if he doesn't upload something every 4 hours or something? :)
[10:31] <seb128> bah
[10:31] <seb128> was nice to have a packaging break :)
[10:31] <Mithrandir> seb128: I don't believe you. ;)
[10:31] <Amaranth> who are you and what you have done with the real seb128?
[10:32] <Mithrandir> or possibly, you too might need to recharge batteries once in a while.
[10:32] <seb128> right :)
[10:32] <ajmitch_> seb128: managed to get your fix then?
[10:32] <Amaranth> ooh, new python2-gnome-extras
[10:32] <Amaranth> too bad only about 5 people in the world know how to use it
[10:33] <Kamion> mdz: ok, so I should: 1) rename base to minimal etc. 2) remove the inter-seed dependencies I added at UDU 3) update ubuntu-meta to cope, and add new ubuntu-base with Depends: ubuntu-minimal, ubuntu-standard
[10:33] <Kamion> mdz: ?
[10:33] <Lathiat> fark just got another 121 autosync mails, it sgone nuts. :)
[10:34] <seb128> mvo: hey!
[10:34] <Lathiat> or maybe not, evolution jut sucks
[10:34] <Amaranth> Lathiat: This is why you don't subscribe to breezy changes. :)
[10:34] <mdz> Kamion: yes
[10:34] <seb128> ajmitch_: right, I've fixed the breakages yesterday
[10:34] <Amaranth> just read the archives
[10:34] <Lathiat> Amaranth: nah i subscribe to it for a reason. :)
[10:34] <Lathiat> im interested. :)
[10:34] <Lathiat> its 
[10:34] <Lathiat> ignore that, stupid irssi
[10:34] <Amaranth> err
[10:35] <Amaranth> 0x17?
[10:35] <Lathiat> ^W
[10:35] <Amaranth> oh
[10:35] <Lathiat> irssi has an issue where for some reason on a lagged SSH sessions
[10:35] <Lathiat> control keys turn into characters
[10:35] <Lathiat> yet it works fine if you rssh isnt lagged
[10:35] <Lathiat> its really whacked out and i have nfi what cuases it
[10:35] <Mithrandir> it includes control characters verbatim if they are together with other characters in the same packet.
[10:35] <Amaranth> ok, ^W in random apps is bad
[10:36] <Mithrandir> it's a feature to avoid random tab-expansion and so on when pasting.
[10:36] <Lathiat> Mithrandir: ohhh
[10:36] <Lathiat> i see
[10:36] <mvo> seb128: mind if I take #9342 (gksu-merge)?
[10:36] <Lathiat> that makes sense
[10:36] <Lathiat> i need to make it ignore ^W
[10:36] <seb128> mvo: not at all :)
[10:36] <Lathiat> cus i usually hit ^W a few times
[10:36] <Lathiat> or hold it down . :)
[10:37] <Lathiat> i should use ^U or something
[10:37] <seb128> mvo: my bugs mailbox has still 274 mails to go, so feel free to grab some of my bugs, you are welcome :)
[10:37] <Mithrandir> shiny, shiny.
[10:38] <mvo> seb128: thanks
[10:38] <seb128> thank you
[10:41] <jsgotangco> anybody has some more nice UDU pics?
[10:42] <jsgotangco> ogra, not the ones where you were fooling around in kings cross ;)
[10:43] <ogra> heh, nope, but my camera is to cheap.... half of them are to blurry, to dark etc
[10:43] <jsgotangco> same here heh
[10:44] <Amaranth> arg, updatedb is making my HD thrash :/
[10:50] <zyga> Mithrandir: what do you use the smart card for/
[10:55] <Simira> zyga: for fun ;)
[11:00] <dholbach> fabbione: rock
[11:05] <jiyuu0> new version of ubuntu add-on cd is out: http://ubuntuguide.org/add-on-cd
[11:06] <Lathiat> jiyuu0: are you the person who runs that site?
[11:06] <lamont> seb128: did you want to know that epiphany-browser_1.6.3-1ubuntu1 does not like amd64?
[11:06] <seb128> sure
[11:06] <jiyuu0> Lathiat, yes 
[11:06] <seb128> lamont: it doesn't like gcc4/amd64?
[11:07] <Lathiat> jiyuu0: could you please get rid of the prleink recommendation? its total crack. :)
[11:07] <jiyuu0> is there a prob with prelink?
[11:08] <jiyuu0> some recommend me to put it
[11:08] <lamont> seb128: yeah
[11:08] <Lathiat> it smokes crack, nto really a good idea since it modifies all your binaries and has to be run-run every tie you update packages and stuff, for no real gain
[11:08] <lamont> checking for suffix of object files... configure: error: cannot compute suffix of object files: cannot compile
[11:08] <lamont> that'd be mad
[11:09] <lamont> seb128: concordia's breezy chroot should be able to produce the config.log that you need - it's not saved by the build daemons
[11:09] <Lathiat> jiyuu0: basically, its not a really good thing fo rgeneral users to do, so it shouldnt be on such a page. IMO and others)
[11:09] <jiyuu0> ok...
[11:10] <jiyuu0> i'll remove it
[11:10] <Lathiat> and im told it doesnt really give that much of a gain anyway
[11:10] <jiyuu0> going to remove on next release
[11:10] <Lathiat> cool
[11:10] <jiyuu0> puttin dvdrip instructions in
[11:10] <Lathiat> site seems generally pretty cool, nice work
[11:10] <hunger> Lathiat: I didn't notice any speedup when loading ooo with prelink... but then I hardly ever notice speedups.
[11:11] <jiyuu0> thanks
[11:11] <Kamion> very strange; many of the packages in that add-on-cd are already on the Ubuntu 5.04 CDs
[11:11] <Kamion> I don't understand why you're providing them again
[11:11] <Kamion> they are not installed by default, but they should be in /var/cache/apt/archives after installation
[11:11] <jsgotangco> thats cracked up
[11:12] <jiyuu0> Kamion, those cds are not in ubuntu cds
[11:12] <jiyuu0> e.g. xmms, mplayer, audacity...etc
[11:12] <Kamion> the ones I spotted are bazaar, lilo, linux-headers-386, nis, devscripts, fakeroot, cvs
[11:12] <Kamion> there are doubtless many more
[11:12] <jiyuu0> some of em duplicate as... after install it would not be there
[11:13] <Kamion> they are in /var/cache/apt/archives after installation
[11:13] <jiyuu0> and when apt-get it will prompt for it
[11:13] <Kamion> if apt-get prompts, that's a bug in apt, not a lack of packages
[11:13] <jiyuu0> i installed a fresh... then took the list 
[11:13] <jiyuu0> and compared it
[11:13] <Kamion> look at the ship seed
[11:13] <Mithrandir> zyga: PGP key signing
[11:14] <Kamion> it's documented in a number of places
[11:15] <Amaranth> jiyuu0: Hey, I have a new version of the menu editor. It's going into hoary backports though so I think having the guide point there would be best.
[11:15] <Amaranth> jiyuu0: The package name is smeg.
[11:16] <Kamion> a quick count suggests 54 packages on the add-on-cd that are already in ship
[11:16] <jiyuu0> Amaranth, smeg is in it already
[11:16] <Kamion> you could remove those and reclaim lots of space for more useful stuff
[11:16] <jiyuu0> i updated it yesterday
[11:17] <Amaranth> jiyuu0: Did you put the new pyxdg and gnome-menus in too?
[11:17] <jiyuu0> Amaranth, that i only got it today :(
[11:17] <jiyuu0> so not in it yet
[11:17] <Kamion> bazaar bpalogin build-essential console-terminus cvs devscripts eagle-usb-data eagle-usb-utils emacs21 emacs21-bin-common emacs21-common emacsen-common fakeroot g++ g++-3.3 gawk gcc gcc-3.3 language-support-en libpcap0.7 libpcre3 libstdc++5-3.3-dev libungif4g lilo linux-headers-386 linux-wlan-ng mozilla-firefox-locale-en-gb myspell-en-gb myspell-en-us ndiswrapper-utils nfs-common nfs-kernel-server nis ntp-server ntp-
[11:17] <Amaranth> Ok. Smeg is basically useless without them.
[11:17] <ajmitch_> dholbach: it's ok, really..
[11:17] <jiyuu0> Kamion, thank :)
[11:18] <jiyuu0> so those will be in the shipit cd
[11:18] <Kamion> yes
[11:18] <jiyuu0> but the current version won't copy to cache right?
[11:18] <Kamion> it does; apt may not honour that though
[11:18] <Kamion> as in, it may try to get at the CD to confirm that the packages in the cache are right, or something crackful like that
[11:19] <hunger> Why does ubuntu ship modprobe.modutils?
[11:19] <jiyuu0> i got that a couple of times
[11:19] <ogra> hunger, for people that want to use old kernels....
[11:20] <Kamion> hunger: we stopped shipping modutils in hoary
[11:20] <Kamion> 2004-11-09 21:57:42 GMT Matt Zimmerman <matt.zimmerman@canonical.com>   patch-10
[11:20] <Kamion>     Remove modutils from base, 2.4 kernels from supported
[11:20] <ogra> hunger, err, yes... it was on warty....
[11:20] <Kamion>     Summary:
[11:20] <hunger> Kamion: Huch, where did modutils come from here then...
[11:20] <Kamion>       Goodbye, Linux 2.4.x
[11:20] <Kamion> hunger: perhaps you upgraded from warty
[11:20] <Kamion> we do not force the removal of modutils
[11:21] <Amaranth> sid autosync pulled it in?
[11:21] <hunger> Oh great! modutils is not installed at all.
[11:21] <Kamion> Amaranth: autosync does not affect seeds
[11:22] <hunger> But something set up symlinks for those tools anyway.
[11:22] <Kamion> hunger: it appears to be module-init-tools' preinst that creates those symlinks
[11:22] <Kamion> diversions, strictly
[11:23] <Amaranth> yay, my app is #1 on the ubuntuguide app install howto :)
[11:24] <Lathiat> heh
[11:25] <ogra> Amaranth, does it work now ? 
[11:25] <Amaranth> ogra: Smeg?
[11:25] <ogra> without wiping submenus etc...
[11:25] <jiyuu0> Amaranth, :)
[11:25] <Amaranth> ogra: wiping submenus?
[11:25] <ogra> no, menu editor...
[11:25] <Amaranth> oh, you mean without totally killing the applications menu
[11:25] <hunger> Amaranth: Which app is that that it is so horrible that it needs a entry in app install howto ;-)
[11:25] <Amaranth> menu editor is now Smeg
[11:26] <ogra> ah
[11:26] <Amaranth> hunger: It isn't in Ubuntu. ;)
[11:26] <Amaranth> ogra: works fine here
[11:26] <Amaranth> i released a new version, needs a new python-xdg and gnome-menus
[11:26] <ogra> ah
[11:27] <seb128> elmo, thom: ping ?
[11:27] <Amaranth> i didn't know how to use cdbs's patch system or dpatch at the time so i don't have a patch of what changed in those two
[11:27] <seb128> Amaranth: have you tried to ping upstreams to work on a common stuff?
[11:27] <seb128> there is 3 menu editors now
[11:27] <Amaranth> seb128: 3? i only know of two
[11:28] <Amaranth> I've talked to Manny, not much we can do to bring the two together, I don't know C.
[11:28] <lamont> g'night all
[11:28] <ogra> night lamont 
[11:28] <fabbione> lamont: noght
[11:28] <fabbione> night
[11:29] <Amaranth> seb128: g-m-e, Smeg, and what else?
[11:29] <hunger> Do usb-sticks work for you? Mine suddenly stopped working.
[11:29] <hunger> usb-storage gets loaded, but no device nodes get created.
[11:29] <seb128> Amaranth: what is Smeg?
[11:29] <jsgotangco> Simple Menu Editor for Gnome
[11:29] <lamont> seb128: 1000th of Sgig? :-)
[11:29] <Amaranth> seb128: my menu editor, the one that was called "Menu Editor"
[11:30] <seb128> Amaranth: there is a gnome-menu-editor on the GNOME CVS, and gnome-menus 2.11 has a pygtk menu editor
[11:30] <seb128> k
[11:30] <seb128> lamont: maybe :p 
[11:30] <Amaranth> the one in gnome-menus is just an example of using the python interface
[11:30] <seb128> no
[11:30] <Amaranth> they've done more with it?
[11:30] <seb128> that's the menu editor for GNOME 2.12 I think
[11:31] <seb128> they are working on it 
[11:31] <lamont> jsgotangco: 0330 here
[11:31] <Amaranth> g-m-e was supposed to be the one for 2.12...
[11:31] <seb128> no
[11:31] <elmo> seb128: ?
[11:31] <seb128> where do you read that?
[11:31] <fabbione> hunger: it's a bug in udev/hotplug
[11:31] <fabbione> hunger: check bugzilla
[11:31] <Amaranth> well, I don't want to run GNOME from CVS (don't even know how) so i dunno what i can do there
[11:31] <jsgotangco> ackk
[11:31] <Amaranth> seb128: Well, that's what Manny seemed to be saying.
[11:31] <seb128> elmo: 
[11:31] <hunger> fabbione: Thanks!
[11:31] <seb128> Executing shell in 'breezy' chroot.
[11:31] <seb128> Unknown id: seb128
[11:32] <seb128> elmo: on concordia
[11:32] <seb128> elmo: if you can make that working, would be nice :)
[11:32] <seb128> Amaranth: right, but that's what this guy think, he's not a maintainer for gnome-panel or gnome-menus ...
[11:33] <elmo> seb128: fixed
[11:33] <seb128> Amaranth: the gnome-menus maintainer is working on gnome-menus, read the desktop list
[11:33] <seb128> elmo: thanks
[11:33] <Amaranth> seb128: got a link to the d-d-l archive of this?
[11:33] <Amaranth> i've only been subscribed for a week
[11:33] <seb128> Amaranth: mail "Simple menu editor"
[11:34] <seb128> that's an april mail
[11:34] <Amaranth> ack, my name :/
[11:34] <seb128> "Build gnome-menus HEAD and run "gmenu-simple-editor" to try it out."
[11:34] <seb128> "This is pretty much the same as Christian's gnome-menu-editor, but with
[11:34] <seb128> less features. I thought it might good idea to try and explain why I
[11:34] <seb128> went with a new editor with less features :-"
[11:34] <seb128> etc
[11:35] <hunger> fabbione: Do you have a bug#? I do not see anything like my problem in the bugzilla.
[11:35] <fabbione> hunger: no, but i remember reassigning it to udev
[11:39] <seb128> elmo: can you update the package list for the concordia breezy chroot and install the build-dep for epiphany-browser ?
[11:41] <elmo> seb128: done
[11:41] <dholbach> hey elmo, did you have luck with brandon hale (tseng)'s key? (universe keyring)
[11:42] <elmo> dholbach: not yet, piece-of-string and all that, I'll get it done today tho
[11:42] <dholbach> elmo: ROCK, he will love you for that :-)
[11:43] <seb128> elmo: thanks
[11:43] <ogra> yeah
[11:43] <ajmitch> elmo: thanks
[11:43] <fabbione> hey elmo
[11:43] <fabbione> thanks for the sync
[11:43] <Kamion> hm, this ubuntu-meta update will suck without getting ia64 into sync with the changes
[11:43] <Kamion> elmo: any ETA on ports.ubuntu.com?
[11:44] <Lathiat> ports.ubuntu.com ?
[11:44] <hunger> fabbione: Ah, found the bug!
[11:44] <fabbione> Lathiat: ia64/sparc/hppa
[11:44] <Kamion> Lathiat: unofficial architectures
[11:44] <Lathiat> ah right
[11:44] <fabbione> Kamion: elmo had an ETA of a week more or less
[11:45] <Lathiat> hahaha
[11:46] <Lathiat> ubuntu on my indy would rock. :)
[11:46] <Lathiat> altho i think its mipsel isnt it?
[11:47] <ogra> yep
[11:47] <Amaranth> "multiple menu editors
[11:47] <Amaranth> are being developed (gnome-menu-editor, the pyxdg one etc.)" <--cool, he knows i exist ;)
[11:48] <seb128> I'm not sure that's a good idea though
[11:48] <seb128> better to get 2 menus editor, a simple and a featured one
[11:49] <Kamion> hmm
[11:49] <ogra> even better, have only oe that can be run with a --advanced commandline option
[11:49] <Lathiat> i think you should have one nicely done one
[11:49] <ogra> s/oe/one
[11:49] <Amaranth> well, for mine "simple" decribes ease of use (i hope) not functionalilty
[11:49] <Kamion> I think I might temporarily mirror the ia64 Packages files to people so that ubuntu-meta can be updated properly
[11:49] <Lathiat> and smeg seems to be going pretty well
[11:50] <Amaranth> Lathiat: Thanks. :)
[12:02] <ogra> jdub around ?
[12:03] <dholbach> away for 4 hours now
[12:03] <ogra> ah, ok
[12:03] <dholbach> wanted to get us a ubuntu-motu--list earlier
[12:05] <jsgotangco> i feel so sleepy already and its only 6pm
[12:05] <jdub> ogra: back
[12:05] <ogra> http://www.arcad.de
[12:06] <ogra> jdub ^^
[12:06] <ogra> just translating their request for you
[12:06] <trukulo> jdub: congratulations for your wedding
[12:06] <jdub> ogra: thanks
[12:06] <jdub> trukulo: thanks
[12:07] <trukulo> jdub: you have to tell me where to find blind girls to get married too ;)
[12:07] <jsgotangco> trukulo, there are loads in sydney
[12:07] <hunger> udev does not log anything anymore:-(
[12:07] <trukulo> jsgotangco: i note it
[12:08] <mdke> jdub, quick word in PM?
[12:08] <jdub> ok
[12:08] <mdke> thanks
[12:09] <hunger> ogra: It does have a fancy box... Maybe it is gold-plated or so?
[12:09] <ogra> hunger, dunno, just wondering if it needs canonical approval for the logo usage....
[12:10] <jdub> is that the boxed set?
[12:10] <ogra> yep
[12:10] <jdub> ogra: yeah, almost certain that's the company we've approved
[12:10] <ogra> jdub, where does the handbook come from ?
[12:10] <hunger> ogra: Maybe they rely on "humanity to others", hoping they will not get sued? ;-)
[12:11] <ogra> hmm, there is also a typo in the description....
[12:11] <jdub> ogra: not sure - silbs knows
[12:11] <ogra> GNOME 2.9.4
[12:11] <jsgotangco> whoa!
[12:11] <ogra> heh
[12:11] <jsgotangco> heh
[12:11] <ogra> jdub, ok
[12:11] <jsgotangco> the box looks like something that came out from Lotus
[12:12] <ogra> bah... debian for the desktop :-P
[12:16] <trukulo> umm, it's legal to sell it ?
[12:16] <ogra> debian is the core of this distribution and thus is the "rock on which ubuntu is built".
[12:16] <trukulo> i mean, selling that way
[12:16] <trukulo> does it have rights to sell with a t-shirt?
[12:16] <seb128> is libstdc++5-3.3-dev supposed to have a /usr/lib/libstdc++.so?
[12:18] <dholbach> jdub: could we have ubuntu-motu or something?
[12:18] <jdub> dholbach: mailing list?
[12:19] <dholbach> jdub: yes! :-)
[12:19] <seb128> and ubuntu-desktop for the bugs ? :)
[12:19] <seb128> ubuntu-desktop-bugs or something
[12:20] <mdke> we need to segregate these motu dudes
[12:20] <dholbach> seb128: dunno, if malone teams can have their own "preferred mail adress" *hrm*
[12:20] <jsgotangco> ahem
[12:21] <seb128> dholbach: I want that for bugzilla atm
[12:21] <dholbach> mdke: do you want to tell me something?
[12:21] <dholbach> seb128: i see
[12:21] <mdke> dholbach, no...
[12:21] <dholbach> mdke: ok :-)
[12:21] <dholbach> seb128: i will put the idea on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaloneUniverseWishList 
[12:21] <seb128> k
[12:22] <jsgotangco> "A Guide to Open Source Software" by the Australian Government Information Management Office
[12:22] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[12:22] <ogra> mdke, how did it smell ?
[12:23] <Kamion> mdke: btw, reading scrollback, ubuntu.com is the domain we'd prefer people to use; there's a website bug that makes that awkward at the moment though
[12:23] <mdke> Kamion, yeah
[12:24] <mdke> ogra, it was ok...
[12:24] <ogra> heh
[12:24] <mdke> Kamion, i think i posted that bug during the chat with that guy
[12:24] <jdub> dholbach: hrm, can you email ubuntu-devel about creating ubuntu-motu?
[12:24] <mdke> ogra, i might not do it again tho
[12:24] <jdub> seb128: ok, i will think about that tomorrow morning ;)
[12:25] <ogra> mdke, lol
[12:26] <hunger> udev is seriously broken in breezy from what I understand. I do not get anything with udev in the logs.
[12:26] <dholbach> jdub: ok
[12:26] <jsgotangco> thats it i am going home and sleep
[12:26] <jsgotangco> bye bye
[12:26] <hunger> und that with udev logging its version as the first thing it does.
[12:26] <dholbach> jsgotangco: sleep tight
[12:27] <ajmitch> night jsgotangco 
[12:27] <mdke> Kamion, while we're on the subject, it would be nice to assign a few website bugs: at the moment is seems a lot of them go to lu@canonical, and henrik is not assigned bugs
[12:27] <jdub> lamont: does the new postfix include tls foo?
[12:27] <Kamion> jdub: can you fix mdke's comment about default assignees?
[12:28] <mdke> jsgotangco, sleep well
[12:28] <jdub> ok
[12:30] <jdub> heh
[12:33] <koke> mvo: are you around
[12:33] <koke> ??
[12:33] <koke> I want to patch gksu, the ("Child terminated with %d status") message is not "usable" at all
[12:33] <koke> any suggestions?
[12:33] <Kamion> ok, I think I have a reasonably working new ubuntu-meta now
[12:34] <Amaranth> is bazaar-ng supposed to be svn-like commands but with arch?
[12:34] <hunger> fabbione: Is someone working on #9913 (the one about udev)? I just updated the report with some more information. Tell me when you think I can help.
[12:36] <fabbione> hunger: somebody will work on it pretty soon.
[12:37] <mdke> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=specific&order=bugs.resolution%2C+relevance+desc&bug_status=__open__&product=Websites&content= <-- these are the website bugs, almost all unassigned, even the early ones
[12:37] <ogra> koke, it would also be cool if it could use the app name form the .desktop file instead of the comandline in the dialog...
[12:38] <ogra> koke, currently it talks about /usr/bin/blah .... instead of Blah
[12:41] <hunger> fabbione: Good to have a trusty old debian box around... no devfs or anything, but at least I can get to the data I need on that box:-)
[12:42] <fabbione> hunger: running breezy is not something you do, if you expect things to work.
[12:42] <fabbione> hunger: run breezy and it will work
[12:42] <hunger> fabbione: Yeah, I know... but I am a new-package junky...
[12:42] <fabbione> or downgrade udev
[12:43] <hunger> fabbione: I got bored on hoary;-)
[12:43] <hunger> fabbione: I won't downgrade... better to figure out what goes wrong and fix it.
[12:44] <hunger> fabbione: I'll look some more tonight after work.
[12:44] <Lathiat> hunger: Just if it breaks, keep both pieces and don't hassle the devs too much. :)
[12:45] <hunger> Lathiat: Yeah, I shouldn't have brought this up here. Actually I shouldn't be here at all.
[12:45] <hunger> Lathiat: But the "how do I mount ntfs" got on my nerves in #ubuntu;-)
[12:45] <Lathiat> heh
[12:46] <trukulo> we need an #fukcking-ubuntu-gurus channel
[12:46] <trukulo> lol
[01:01] <koke> ogra: yeah, that would be the next step
[01:01] <ogra> koke, http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UsingSudo
[01:02] <ogra> koke, alsden wants to extend the spec a bit and its not approved yet, but already shows the direction to go...
[01:02] <ogra> s/alsden/sladen
[01:03] <JaneW> Riddel: ping
[01:03] <koke> ouch, I missed that one
[01:03] <seb128> doko: is libstdc++5-3.3-dev supposed to have a /usr/lib/libstdc++.so? 
[01:04] <seb128> doko: easytag FTBFS with a "/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lstdc++", not sure of why
[01:04] <doko> seb128: No, it's in g++-3.3
[01:04] <seb128> hum
[01:04] <doko> just wait with recompiling C++ code ...
[01:05] <seb128> wait for what? that's a package bug or a buildchain issue?
[01:05] <doko> looks like a package bug
[01:06] <seb128> hum, k
[01:06] <seb128> it builds fine on Debian and not on Ubuntu, I guess that's a gcc4 issue ... it gets a -lstdc++ but dunno why it doesn't on deb
[01:07] <dholbach> Riddell: JaneW pinged you, but forgot an 'l' ;-)
 is nice :p
[01:07] <ogra> hrm
[01:08] <fabbione> seb128: lamont was mentioning something about gcc-defaults not being alligned yet
[01:08] <doko> seb128: does it link with gcc or g++?
[01:08] <fabbione> seb128: due to c++ crap
[01:09] <seb128> doko: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/e/easytag/1.99.4-1/easytag_1.99.4-1_20050503-1056-i386-failed
[01:09] <fabbione> elmo: when and if you time, can you give me a sparc pulse please?
[01:09] <seb128> fabbione: that causes some build breakages?
[01:09] <fabbione> seb128: yes.
[01:09] <fabbione> seb128: i have seen it here on sparc too
[01:09] <seb128> k, thanks
[01:10] <Kamion> you could work around it in the package by forcing gcc-3.3, I guess, if it builds both C and C++ code
[01:10] <Kamion> grotty, though
[01:10] <fabbione> Kamion: i think it's better to just wait for the transition :)
[01:10] <seb128> I don't want to bother, that's an universe package and it can wait
[01:11] <fabbione> adding workarounds now, will make the transition more painful later
[01:11] <fabbione> plus we must drop gcc-3.3
[01:11] <doko> Mithrandir: around?
[01:11] <Mithrandir> yes
[01:11] <doko> please could you fix #9211?
[01:12] <Kamion> fabbione: true
[01:12] <doko> mithrandir: please could you fix #9211?
[01:13] <seb128> doko: apparently it uses gcc
[01:14] <doko> seb128: yes, and it doesn't find cc1plus from g++-4.0. that's package bug, should use g++ to link.
[01:14] <seb128> doko: k, I'll have a look, thanks
[01:15] <Mithrandir> doko: ask jbailey; he said he would fix it
[01:16] <doko> Mithrandir: he's in vacation for a week ...
[01:17] <Mithrandir> doko: just upload a new amd64-libs-dev, then
[01:18] <doko> Mithrandir: thanks
[01:19] <fabio> hello people
[01:19] <mdke> hi
[01:19] <fabio> hello mdke
[01:19] <fabio> r u a developer?
[01:19] <mdke> nope
[01:20] <mdke> but ask in here
[01:20] <fabio> eheh same, well I am studying, but I was going to ask, which could be the best IDE for C/C++ programming in Gnome?
[01:20] <JaneW> dholbach: thanks
[01:20] <JaneW> Riddell: ping
[01:20] <ogra> fabio, anjuta probably
[01:21] <tseng> hi all.
[01:21] <ogra> hey tseng :)
[01:21] <fabio> oh thanks Ogra, well something like KDevelop in KDE
[01:21] <dholbach> i tried to use anjuta, but it wasn't helpful at all
[01:21] <trukulo> fabio: kdevelop :) heh
[01:21] <dholbach> fabio: just try to use it and see if it fits for you
[01:22] <fabio> will, do because I program in C, so Gnome is C oriented isn't it?
[01:22] <tseng> sortof
[01:22] <tseng> it uses glib
[01:22] <trukulo> fabio: if you want my advice, you can try anjuta+glade/gazpacho
[01:23] <fabio> trukulp, that's great thanks
[01:23] <fabio> trukulo sorry
[01:23] <trukulo> fabio: you can call me trukulp if you want, silly
[01:23] <trukulo> heh
[01:24] <fabio> eheh, np
[01:24] <fabio> I wanted also to ask, is it possible to di GUI programming with Shell scripts?
[01:25] <doko> fabbione, elmo: please could you build a ppc64 kernel in davis's breezy-ppc64 chroot using gcc-3.4? we need it then installed to run the gcc ppc testsuite with -m64. This kernel should then be installed on davis
[01:25] <dholbach> fabio: for absolutely primitive things, zenity exists, but you may want to have a look at python-gtk at some stage
[01:25] <fabio> I saw something called GTk Server
[01:26] <trukulo> fabio: i just read an article about it today
[01:26] <fabio> oh right dholbch
[01:26] <trukulo> it's very similar to zenity, but with more things
[01:26] <fabio> trukulo, yes, seems interesting cos u can program GUI's via PHP too
[01:26] <trukulo> exactly
[01:27] <trukulo> i started reading it, but i have to stop (it's printed press)
[01:27] <fabio> I did contact the programmer, I will go to translate in my language too, so I am waiting for his reply
[01:28] <trukulo> i think he is poland, and that gtk-server is very recent
[01:28] <trukulo> in fact, the article is written by the programmer
[01:28] <fabio> yep, oh I thought he was German ;?
[01:28] <fabio> nevermind, yes, well I am a web-designer, I thought to give him a help with the website style
[01:28] <trukulo> i'm not sure fabio, don't believe me so much
[01:28] <trukulo> publication is polish, that's for sure
[01:29] <fabio> right, won't able to understand though!! ;)
[01:30] <trukulo> fabio: article is translated to spanish
[01:30] <fabio> trukulo, sorry only English or Italian here
[01:30] <trukulo> anyway, i suposse you can find it in english in his website
[01:30] <fabio> yes, I think I found it too
[01:31] <fabio> trukulo, what u do in Ubuntu about dev?
[01:31] <trukulo> me? nothing
[01:33] <fabio> oh right, I thought u were a developer? ;)
[01:33] <trukulo> no i'm not
[01:33] <fabio> oh I see np
[01:33] <trukulo> i'm just interested in development
[01:33] <fabio> yes, what language?
[01:34] <trukulo> no language in particular, just system
[01:35] <fabio> oh right, cool, I am learning PHP, C and Shell Scripting
[01:37] <fabbione> doko: no i can't build ppc64 kernels atm
[01:38] <fabbione> doko: not a standard deb at least
[01:38] <fabbione> doko: i think elmo is a better person to do it, since he will need to install it and reboot davis
[01:43] <fabio> bye guys
[01:44] <amnesia> hi
[01:45] <fabio> bye guys
[01:51] <chmj> doko, ping 
[01:51] <doko> chmj: pong
[01:58] <mdke> jdub, still here by any chance?
[02:02] <mdke> mako, how about yourself?
[02:07] <Kamion> oh, damn
[02:08] <dholbach> Kamion: what's wrong?
[02:08] <Kamion> fabbione: please 'echo common/ext2-modules > d-i/amd64/modules/amd64/ext2-modules.lnk; baz add d-i/amd64/modules/amd64/ext2-modules.lnk'
[02:08] <trulux> heya
[02:08] <Kamion> hoary/amd64 is unable to do anything with ext2 filesystems in the installer :(
[02:09] <Lathiat> heh
[02:09] <Mithrandir> Kamion: in hoary too?  That's quite bad.
[02:09] <Kamion> ext3's fine
[02:09] <dholbach> oh :-/
[02:09] <Lathiat> ewps
[02:10] <mdke> ok in the absence of those two guys, is anyone able to give me some advice about how mailing lists should be moderated?
[02:10] <Lathiat> fascistly?
[02:10] <HrdwrBoB> mdke: generally.. more 
[02:10] <Kamion> it was fine in warty, since that had CONFIG_EXT2_FS=y
[02:11] <mdke> Lathiat, ;)
[02:11] <Lathiat> mdke: :)
[02:13] <mdke> HrdwrBoB, you've touched on the problem i'm having. essentially the list is not too bad, but the occasional flame springs up. Now, I am currently the only moderator, and naturally I am unable to be always checking it. so i'm adding a person. the question is, whether to add a person to try and ensure that the list is ALWAYS covered, come what may (difficult to do, may require several people), or just be a bit more laissez faire and not worry about the occasion
[02:13] <mdke> al weekend when neither moderator is present
[02:13] <mdke> whoa, that was bigger than i expected
[02:13] <mdke> anyway, any thoughts welcome
[02:14] <HrdwrBoB> it's not the end of the world
[02:15] <HrdwrBoB> maybe have another person as well
[02:15] <mdke> 3?
[02:15] <HrdwrBoB> who doesn't usually moderate
[02:15] <zyga> hello
[02:15] <pitti> Hi zyga 
[02:15] <HrdwrBoB> but can be called upon when others are busy/unavailable
[02:15] <mdke> hmm
[02:15] <mdke> i was thinking of encouraging the whole list to act as moderators, i.e. try and calm things down when they get out of hand
[02:16] <HrdwrBoB> yeah
[02:16] <HrdwrBoB> that will also help
[02:16] <zyga> ubuntu devel is back to normal :-)
[02:16] <HrdwrBoB> some people though are trouble causers
[02:16] <mdke> ahh, this list doesn't have that problem
[02:16] <HrdwrBoB> ah well that's ok
[02:16] <mdke> its more tempers getting frayed
[02:17] <mdke> i think 3 people might be a bit much, HrdwrBoB, i can't see any ubuntu lists with that many admins
[02:17] <HrdwrBoB> heh yeah
[02:17] <mdke> dunno about moderators
[02:18] <mdke> come to think of it, i'm not absolutely clear on the difference
[02:21] <seb128> elmo: orbit2 sync please
[02:21] <mdke> seb128, do you have that problem with ubuntu-fr?
[02:22] <seb128> which one?
[02:22] <mdke> ^^
[02:22] <seb128> ?
[02:22] <zyga> will gcj be unavailable until we actually use g++ 4.0 ?
[02:23] <mdke> seb128, a problem with moderating the mailing list with just one person
[02:23] <seb128> I'm not going to spend 10 min to get the point with 50 questions
[02:23] <seb128> I'm not aware of any issue with the -fr list
[02:23] <seb128> if you have specific questions feel free to ask
[02:24] <mdke> seb128, sorry i'll make myself clearer.
[02:25] <mdke> seb128, i'm sure there is no problem with the -fr list, i'm just asking for advice with a different list: do you find that it is necessary that the list has moderators always available, or is one moderator enough?
[02:25] <seb128> depending
[02:26] <seb128> I think that the message from people not subscribed at the list can wait one week or two
[02:26] <mdke> yes
[02:26] <seb128> but getting a second moderator if you have somebody you trust for the job doesn't hurt
[02:27] <mdke> seb128, ok i appreciate the advice
[02:27] <seb128> np
[02:28] <mdke> seb128, do your moderators check the list every day?
[02:28] <mdke> in case of flaming etc
[02:28] <seb128> dunno for the others, I just approve new messages and reject spam on the -fr list
[02:29] <mdke> seb128, oh right I guess you don't have those problems :)
[02:29] <seb128> no
[02:29] <mdke> cool
[02:30] <mdke> ok thanks again
[02:37] <doko> zyga: yes
[02:54] <pitti> Riddell: here?
[02:55] <Riddell> pitti: hi
[02:56] <seb128> grumpf
[02:56] <ogra> seb128, ??
[02:57] <seb128> Mithrandir: your new pkgconfig breaks builds
[03:00] <pitti> lamont: ping
[03:04] <lamont> pitti: acl
[03:04] <lamont> ack, even
[03:04] <seb128> lamont: epiphany-browser builds fine on concordia ....
[03:05] <seb128> lamont: maybe you could try to kick the build again just to see?
[03:06] <lamont> seb128: will do
[03:06] <lamont> doko: fetchmail hates you
[03:06] <elmo> seb128: done
[03:06] <seb128> thanks
[03:07] <doko> lamont: bison hates _you_
[03:09] <doko> (or maybe the buildd)
[03:09] <seb128> jamesh: around ?
[03:10] <lamont> doko: heh
[03:10] <lamont> seb128: libgnomeprintui_2.10.2-1 has many undefined references during linking
[03:11] <seb128> k
[03:11] <Simira> *getting breezy*
[03:11] <ogra> shudder
[03:11] <Simira> :D
[03:11] <seb128> lamont: I blame Mithrandir 
[03:12] <Treenaks> I think Mithrandir made her upgrade ;)
[03:12] <Simira> thanks mdke: Guess I'll need it
[03:12] <seb128> lamont: the new pkgconfig breaks stuff
[03:12] <Simira> Treenaks: actually he's out just now
[03:12] <jdub> i love breezy
[03:13] <seb128> he has just broken pkgconfig and runs away :p
[03:13] <jdub> having stuff not working again makes me feel more comfortable
[03:13] <Treenaks> jdub: does it love you back? :)
[03:13] <ogra> heh
[03:13] <seb128> jdub: you say that because you don't have to fix these stuff, right ? :p
[03:14] <jdub> seb128: i have always enjoyed the company of competent hackers :-)
[03:14] <seb128> rofl
[03:14] <Lathiat> heheh
[03:15] <chmj> hahaha
[03:17] <Simira> jdub: then I know who I'll be whining to next time something doesn't work like I want it to...
[03:18] <jdub> that's so bong
[03:19] <ogra> hmm, isnt flash a quasi standard for images, like MS word is for .txt files ?
[03:19] <bob2> no
[03:20] <ogra> *g*
[03:22] <trulux> tseng: seems that you replied too fast, or you were reading too deep
[03:32] <mdke> everyone is jumping ship huh
[03:33] <mdke> when do cd images start coming out?
[03:33] <Lathiat> tseng: beagle probably wont be much good until we get kernels with inotify no? 
[03:33] <jdub> Lathiat: boot with 'inotify'
[03:33] <jdub> night all
[03:33] <Lathiat> jdub: and it does bad things with my machine. :)
[03:34] <Lathiat> doesnt with the newer patches
[03:34] <Simira> night jdub
[03:34] <jdub> Lathiat: ask fabbione when we'll get new kernels with 0.22 :)
[03:34] <Lathiat> yeh i already was using it before, works fine except it screwed with gamin so i went back to 2.6.10. :)
[03:37] <Mithrandir> seb128: which one?
[03:37] <Mithrandir> seb128: that is, which package breaks?
[03:39] <zul> jdub: im already running 0.22 :)
[03:39] <seb128> Mithrandir: libgnome breaks, I think that's due to the --libs not listing everything
[03:39] <seb128> -LIBGNOME_LIBS = -Wl,--export-dynamic -pthread -lglib-2.0 -lgmodule-2.0 -ldl -lgobject-2.0 -lgnomevfs-2 -lbonobo-2 -lgconf-2 -lesd -laudiofile -lm  
[03:39] <seb128> +LIBGNOME_LIBS = -Wl,--export-dynamic -pthread -lgobject-2.0 -lgnomevfs-2 -lbonobo-2 -lbonobo-activation -lgconf-2 -lORBit-2 -lgmodule-2.0 -ldl -lgthread-2.0 -lglib-2.0 -lesd -laudiofile -lm  
[03:39] <seb128> 
[03:39] <seb128> pkgconfig 0.15
[03:39] <seb128> pkgconfig 0.17.2
[03:40] <seb128> ups, other way rather
[03:40] <seb128> ie: it needs -lbonobo-activation and -lgthread-2.0 which has not listed with the new version
[03:40] <lexhider> what's the protocol with a non-devel confirming a bug that has an assignee? is it cool to do? [bug in question is trivial typo but nice to know in general] 
[03:40] <Mithrandir> seb128: sounds like some libraries aren't linked correctly.
[03:41] <Mithrandir> seb128: but yes, 0.17.2 is a bit broken, I'm going to find some time to fix it soonish.
[03:42] <seb128> Mithrandir: where is the bug for you ? Ie: who should set the 
[03:42] <seb128> "-lgthread-2.0"
[03:42] <Mithrandir> seb128: which library needs libgthread-2.0 but isn't linked with it?
[03:43] <seb128> Mithrandir: I guess libgtk-x11-2.0
[03:43] <Lathiat> seb128: wasnt there some recent pkgconfig issue
[03:43] <Lathiat> seb128: where it no longer pulls in libs that th libs your askign depends on?
[03:43] <Lathiat> where issue may be a "feature"
[03:44] <seb128> Lathiat: that's what we are just discussing
[03:44] <Lathiat> right
[03:46] <Mithrandir> Lathiat: I'm pkg-config upstream. :)
[03:46] <Lathiat> blah
[03:47] <Mithrandir> seb128: I should write a tool to verify that libraries are linked correctly, I think.
[03:48] <seb128> Mithrandir: libgnome use bonobo-activation, what is the correct way to say it to pkg-config ? the configure.in ?
[03:48] <Mithrandir> seb128: it should include a PKG_CHECK_MODULES with bonobo-activation-2.0 in configure.in, yes.
[03:48] <Mithrandir> seb128: but only if it uses it directly itself.
[03:48] <seb128> atm PKG_CHECK_MODULES looks for libbonobo-2.0, I guess it should look for activation too ?
[03:48] <seb128> right
[03:48] <Mithrandir> seb128: no, you shouldn't need that:
[03:49] <Mithrandir> ldd /usr/lib/libbonobo-2.so | grep bonobo-act libbonobo-activation.so.4 => /usr/lib/libbonobo-activation.so.4 (0xb7e27000)
[03:49] <seb128> I get -lbonobo-2 but no -lbonobo-activation
[03:50] <Mithrandir> you shouldn't need that; bonobo-2 is linked with bonobo-activation.
[03:50] <seb128> so that's /usr/lib/pkgconfig/libbonobo-2.0.pc bugged ?
[03:50] <seb128> hum, no
[03:51] <seb128> hum
[03:51] <seb128> /usr/lib/pkgconfig/libbonobo-2.0.pc:
[03:51] <Mithrandir> this is weird; you shouldn't be seeing those errors at all
[03:51] <seb128> Libs: -L${libdir} -lbonobo-2
[03:51] <seb128> it should list activation here ?
[03:51] <Mithrandir> no. :)
[03:52] <Mithrandir> the libgnome in the archive FTBFS?
[03:52] <seb128> so that's pkg-config bug, it should pick it correctly ?
[03:52] <seb128> right
[03:54] <seb128> builds fine with pkgconfig 0.15, ftbfs with the current version
[03:54] <Mithrandir> I think it's some bug in some library which is masked by the old version
[03:54] <seb128> ups
[03:54] <seb128> libgnome/gnome-gconf.c      2005-03-11 21:11:36.000000000 +0100
[03:54] <seb128> @@ -26,6 +26,7 @@
[03:54] <seb128> 
[03:54] <seb128>  #include <config.h>
[03:54] <seb128>  #include <stdlib.h>
[03:54] <seb128> +#include <popt.h>
[03:54] <seb128> 
[03:54] <seb128> you need this patch for gcc4 in fact
[03:55] <seb128> then you get the bug
[03:55] <Mithrandir> ok
[03:55] <Mithrandir> give me a few minutes to check why it fails
[03:55] <seb128> thanks
[04:05] <SlackShrike> hi
[04:05] <SlackShrike> do you have any repository with the chagens of debian-installer ?
[04:06] <Mithrandir> seb128: to me, it looks like libgnome is using functions from bonobo-activation and gthread without asking for them.  It shouldn't. :)
[04:06] <Mithrandir> seb128: but I'll need to investigate a bit further.
[04:06] <seb128> Mithrandir: how should it ask ? 
[04:06] <Mithrandir> seb128: in configure.in
[04:07] <seb128> it PKG_CHECK_MODULES on libbonobo-2.0
[04:07] <Kamion> mdke: CD images will start coming out when all the pieces are ready. This is my primary task at the moment.
[04:07] <seb128> you said that should be enough
[04:07] <Mithrandir> seb128: actually, it's using -Wl,-z,defs which breaks ATM.
[04:07] <seb128> oh, that's due to that ?
[04:07] <seb128> binutils bug ?
[04:07] <Mithrandir> seb128: I think so; that's known to cause issues atm.
[04:07] <Mithrandir> seb128: no, just bad interaction
[04:07] <Kamion> there's no point building CD images yet because I can guarantee that they'll be broken :-)
[04:08] <seb128> Mithrandir: what would you change for the package ? Not using -Wl,-z,defs for the moment ?
[04:09] <Mithrandir> seb128: yes
[04:09] <Mithrandir> seb128: I'm on my way out now; I'll need to sit down and fix it later today or tomorrow or so.
[04:09] <seb128> k, thanks
[04:09] <Mithrandir> since it causes breakage.
[04:09] <mdke> Kamion, cool thanks
[04:09] <mdke> Kamion, i'm not in a rush at all
[04:10] <seb128> Mithrandir: k, let me know when you have fixed it
[04:10] <seb128> thanks
[04:10] <Mithrandir> seb128: np, sorry for the problems caused :/
[04:15] <Lathiat> hrm, vmware... "Defragment: 484818900% done"
[04:15] <Lathiat> i wonder if its eating my data :\
[04:15] <wasabi> is your data tasty?
[04:15] <Lathiat> nah its just a windows install
[04:15] <wasabi> I wouldn't eat windows.
[04:15] <Lathiat> neither would i
[04:16] <Lathiat> but well, this is vmware.
[04:21] <seb128> Mithrandir: np, that's a working branch after all :)
[04:23] <SlackShrike> where I find documentation on casper ?
[04:23] <SlackShrike> where I find documentation on casper ?
[04:24] <SlackShrike> where I find documentation on casper ?
[04:25] <Kamion> not by asking three times in one minute.
[04:25] <Kamion> as far as users are concerned, it's generally self-documenting. other than that the only documentation I know of is in source code comments.
[04:27] <Lathiat> my machien is in the middle upgrading to breezy mmmmm
[04:27] <SlackShrike> where I find documentation on casper ?
[04:27] <Lathiat> will i regret this. :)
[04:28] <Lathiat> SlackShrike: It is rude to constantyl ask the same question over and over and peopel will jut ignor eyou. Kamion has already kindly answered your question, please pay attention to what he said.
[04:31] <SlackShrike> Excuses, tou with problem in my machine and are very slow.  I find that it is problem in the gnome-kerboard-layout
[04:31] <mvo> ping mdz
[04:32] <Nafallo> damn wireless keeps switching ap to my neighboors.
[04:33] <lamont> Nafallo: so hardwire the AP... ?
[04:33] <Nafallo> lamont, the problem seems to be in the driver. it's an rt2500 chipset.
[04:33] <Lathiat> Nafallo: just iwconfig eth1 essid <blah>, if its the same essid or something, try ap <bssid of ap>
[04:33] <Lathiat> Nafallo: ah, heh
[04:34] <Nafallo> I am connected to my own ap, but then the damn thing likes my neighboors better right of a sudden ;-).
[04:35] <Lathiat> maybe the ndiswrapper drivers will suck less ?
[04:35] <Nafallo> should be better when the rewrite of the driver is made. hopefully we can have that out-of-the-box on ubuntu to :-).
[04:35] <lamont> Nafallo: the simplest solution is to use something other than the default SSID, and then hardwire that with iwconfig
[04:35] <Nafallo> lamont, I already do that :-)
[04:35] <lamont>  /lib/modules/2.6.12-1-686/kernel/drivers/net/wireless/rt2500/rt2500.ko
[04:35] <lamont> Nafallo: I was hoping you did... :-)
[04:36] <Lathiat> Nafallo: try seeign 'ap <bssid>'
[04:36] <Lathiat> iwconfig, read what the MAC of the ap is and set that
[04:36] <Lathiat> might work
[04:36] <Nafallo> lamont, is that the rewrite or the derivate from ralinks own?
[04:37] <Nafallo> Lathiat, tried that to :-). there is a bug open upstream...
[04:38] <lamont> Nafallo: no clue
[04:38] <Lathiat> Nafallo: ah ok, sucky.
[04:39] <Nafallo> lamont, that kernel is in breezy? I might aswell switch early in that case ;-)
[04:39] <lamont> Nafallo: isn't uploaded yet - that's my most recent test-build
[04:39] <Amaranth> does anyone here use jhbuild to build GNOME on breezy?
[04:39] <zul> lamont: sorry about the config stuff :)
[04:39] <doko> hmm, ia64 isn't installable at the moment?
[04:39] <doko> Err http://archive.ubuntu.com hoary/main Packages
[04:39] <doko>   404 Not Found [IP: 82.211.81.138 80] 
[04:39] <lamont> zul: grumble. heh
[04:39] <Lathiat> the 2.6.12 test kernesl worked great here except that it screwed with gamin
[04:39] <lamont> doko: no
[04:39] <zul> lamont: my bad
[04:40] <Nafallo> lamont, ahh. well. I check mailinglist and mirrorlogs for the upload then :-).
[04:40] <Kamion> doko: it'll be on ports.ubuntu.com eventually
[04:40] <doko> lamont: so don't care about ia64 for breezy at the moment?
[04:41] <lamont> doko: it's installable in the data center, and making the mirror visible again is on elmo's list for the week, but there are things ahead of that task...
[04:41] <lamont> is there an sftp method for apt?
[04:42] <lamont> nm
[04:42] <pitti> lamont: I tried this once, it works; it just sucks if you need to type a password
[04:42] <Lathiat> hrmm, ubuntu blacklits snd_intel8x0m because it "doesn't support much hardware on its own" but it drives modems attached to i810 audio chipsets, hrmm.
[04:42] <lamont> pitti: I wasn't serious.  seriously
[04:43] <pitti> lamont: I was serious, too. It indeed works
[04:43] <pitti> ;-)
[04:43] <lamont> neato.
[04:43] <SlackShrike> sorry
[04:49] <Lathiat> ah, fabbione disabled the inotify backend in gamin, so the 2.6.12 kernels should work ok now
[04:51] <Treenaks>  what's wrong with the backend?
[04:54] <Lathiat> Treenaks: no idea, but fabbione says its 'utterly broken' and it certainly breaks for me when i have inotify on (stops seeing file updates and stuff)
[04:57] <zyga> did anyone notice increased memory and CPU usage of gnome-panel when updating/removing/adding packages?
[04:57] <zyga> mine just hogged over 500MB of memory (and 95% CPU) for a moment so I've killed it 
[04:57] <zyga> killing it seems to fix the problem
[04:58] <zyga> I guess it keeps trying to update the menu after being constantly notified about updates to various .application and .desktop files
[04:58] <zyga> but it also seems that it leaks memory somewhere along the way
[05:01] <mvo> does anyone knows if python distutils support runing a testsuit for a pkg?
[05:06] <lifeless> mvo: not built in, but you could hack it easily enough I htink
[05:11] <jabra_> should I add my name as the new maintainer of radmind in the new package list as it looks like it was already review
[05:12] <jabra_> /s/review/reviewed
[05:14] <mvo> lifeless: ok, thanks
[05:45] <mdke> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=22860 <-- stuff like this worrys me
[05:46] <Lathiat> heh
[05:46] <Treenaks> mdke: it's SCRIPTED
[05:46] <Treenaks> *shudder*
[05:47] <mdke> scripted evil
[05:47] <Treenaks> instead of just fixing what needs fixing (i.e. licenses mostly)
[05:47] <elmo> Treenaks: eh, fixing those licenses isn't exactly trivial
[05:48] <elmo> (to be fair.  OTOH, I'm not encouraging that horrow show thing either)
[05:48] <mdke> i use proprietary software as happily as the next man, but really, a script which doesn't even tell you what is going on and introduces backports into your sources.list... its enough to give you nightmares
[05:48] <Treenaks> elmo: no, but a /shell script/.. 
[05:48] <Treenaks> elmo: what's wrong with good old apt?
[05:48] <elmo> eh?
[05:48] <dilinger_> elmo: yea, why do you hate apt?
[05:49] <elmo> Treenaks: "instead of just fixing what needs fixing (i.e. licenses mostly)" <- I was responding to that
[05:49] <Treenaks> ah
[05:49] <Treenaks> anywat, the "script" should be a list of things to add to sources.list + a list of package names, imho
[05:51] <dilinger_> what's the default hoary compiler, gcc-3.3 or 3.4?
[05:51] <elmo> 3.3
[05:51] <dilinger_> thanks
[06:08] <lamont> Mithrandir: amd64 libtool/gcc chain is randomly SEGVing sometimes.  fix that. kthxbye
[06:09] <elmo> eww
[06:09] <elmo> _hoary_?
[06:09] <elmo> how did we not notice this before?
[06:10] <Lathiat> elmo: the ext2 stuff?
[06:10] <lamont> elmo: just lucky I guess.
[06:10] <lamont> elmo: then again, the kernel is fairly new, no?
[06:13] <elmo> lamont: not really, they were running the same version for at least a couple of months before release
[06:13] <elmo> it's had security updates, sure, but I doubt that's the cause
[06:21] <virus84|> hi can any one tell me how mutch space i need to set up a ubuntu mirror?
[06:21] <Nafallo> virus84|, a full one?
[06:21] <virus84|> yes maybe
[06:21] <virus84|> how mutch should what take?
[06:22] <virus84|> more then 100GB?
[06:22] <virus84|> or more then 1TB?
[06:22] <zyga> virus84|: about 54GB for i386 AFAIR but I may be very wrong
[06:22] <stratus> < 1TB of course.
[06:22] <elmo> a full mirror is 63Gb ATM
[06:23] <elmo> that's all arches, all suites
[06:23] <Nafallo> elmo, that means ppc takes 12GB approx ;-)
[06:23] <virus84|> elmo: okey all architecturs is included in that 63GB?
[06:23] <virus84|> elmo: okey
[06:23] <virus84|> elmo: are all the packages included to?
[06:24] <Lathiat> zyga: i386 with no sources was ~10GB (including universe, multiverse)
[06:24] <virus84|> im planing to put up a .se ubunto mirror 
[06:24] <zyga> Lathiat: then I must have remembered something wrong
[06:24] <virus84|> we have at the moment a debian mirror and kernel.org mirror
[06:25] <stratus> virus84|, are you planning setup a ubuntU mirror too?
[06:25] <virus84|> stratus: yes
[06:25] <Lathiat> heheh
[06:25] <virus84|> stratus: we are a computer club www.ds.hj.se
[06:25] <virus84|> ftp.ds.hj.se
[06:25] <trulux> those interested in the new spec. for Ubuntu Hardened, that is, a RFC, could you join #ubuntu-hardened, please?
[06:25] <Nafallo> ahh :-)
[06:25] <stratus> hmm, ok.
[06:26] <virus84|> stratus: somthing wrong
[06:26] <virus84|> ?
[06:26] <trulux> note; the RFC concerns both userland and kernelland related packages, maintainers of kernel packages and toolchain packages are highly encouraged to join
[06:26] <stratus> no.
[06:27] <zyga> trulux: will generic users benefit from listening to the discussion?
[06:27] <zyga> s/users/developers/
[06:28] <trulux> zyga: of course, and I would like to hear the opinion of as much people as possible
[06:28] <fabbione> trulux: can't you just kindly do a call for a meeting with some notice in advance?
[06:28] <fabbione> trulux: i would like to partecipate but 5 minutes notice in my life isn't an option
[06:28] <trulux> fabbione: yes, I'm about to send an email to ubuntu-hardened and -devel
[06:29] <fabbione> trulux: do a normal call with a week in advance
[06:29] <Mithrandir> lamont: oh yay. :/
[06:29] <fabbione> trulux: at least a week.. given the timezone differences
[06:29] <trulux> fabbione: I apologize, I've been taking care of some stuff, like repairing my CRT early in the morning
[06:31] <trulux> fabbione: I will discuss the date at the channel
[06:31] <fabbione> and time....
[06:31] <fabbione> remember of TZ
[06:31] <trulux> tseng: feel free to join, but no flames there, please (and DON'T read too deeply, it's not my desire to waste my or others time with such senseless stuff).
[06:31] <trulux> fabbione: sure
[06:32] <ogra> wasnt that discussed and speced in a BOF in sydney already ?
[06:33] <Mithrandir> jbailey: what mount is used in an initramfs?
[06:34] <lamont> Mithrandir: what would really help is if we had a /proc/sys/kernel entry that would let us say 'never use a virtual address < 4GB for user data'
[06:34] <jbailey> g'm all
[06:34] <lamont> then then >4GB issues would be solid.
[06:34] <jbailey> Mithrandir: klibc stuff
[06:34] <jbailey> I don't know the upstream of it, I can check.
[06:35] <seb128> hey jbailey 
[06:35] <Mithrandir> jbailey: yes please
[06:35] <Mithrandir> lamont: that should be doable?
[06:36] <lamont> Mithrandir: it should be... ia64 does ...
[06:36] <lamont> well, doesn't have the switch, just does it....
[06:37] <Mithrandir> but the ia64 people never test the binaries and nobody uses ia64; that's the reason why we're still seeing 64 bit issues on amd64. ;)
[06:37] <lamont> heh
[06:38] <jbailey> Mithrandir:  * mount_opts.c, by rmk
[06:38] <jbailey> Mithrandir: Is about the only hit I get, I'll keep looking.
[06:38] <Mithrandir> jbailey: ok.  I'm probably going to rewrite mount(8) completely and it would be nice to be able to actually generate the initramfs mount from the same sources
[06:40] <jbailey> Mithrandir: This code is just a wrapper around the mount syscall AFAICT.  It may be original code.
[06:40] <jbailey> That and some comand line parsing.
[06:40] <Mithrandir> jbailey: ok, so there isn't any real need for a mostly full-featured mount there?
[06:40] <jbailey> Mithrandir: I'm all about using a common mount, it would save some suckage, but that assumes that I can actually compile your mount rewrite with klibc.  Keep in mind that it's not a posix C library.
[06:40] <jbailey> Mithrandir: Enlighten me as to what mount provides beyond this? =)
[06:41] <Mithrandir> jbailey: file system autodetection?  Handling of loop devices?  Handling of crypted devices?
[06:42] <jbailey> Ah, right.  Hmmhmm.  I haven't thought into the realm of crypt'd devices and such yet at all.  
[06:42] <jbailey>         eval $(fstype < ${ROOT})
[06:42] <jbailey>         # Mount root
[06:42] <jbailey>         mount ${ro} -t ${FSTYPE} ${ROOT} ${rootmnt}
[06:42] <Mithrandir> jbailey: the new one will have a plugin system so adding support for a new file system will not mean you need to patch mount.
[06:43] <jbailey> There's a binary called fstype
[06:44] <jbailey> I'd really like to see fstype merged into util-linux
[06:44] <lamont> doko: looks like gcc-3.4 might actually build on debian/hppa - sorry for screaming...
[06:44] <Nechushtan> how can I contribute a "bug" for the installer?
[06:44] <Kamion> util-linux uses stuff from e2fsprogs for that at the moment, doesn't it?
[06:44] <Kamion> Nechushtan: bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[06:45] <jbailey> Kamion: Well, the fsck wrapper is provided by e2fsprogs
[06:45] <Kamion> Nechushtan: if you don't know the package, choose "debian-installer" as a default
[06:45] <Nechushtan> Kamion: thanks
[06:45] <Kamion> jbailey: no, for figuring out filesystem types
[06:45] <Kamion> libblkid
[06:45] <jbailey> Hmm, dunno for sure.
[06:45] <jbailey> Ah, cool.
[06:45] <Nechushtan> Kamion: if i know the step in the install process does that help or still use debian-installer ?
[06:46] <Kamion> Nechushtan: what step?
[06:46] <Nechushtan> bootloader install
[06:46] <Kamion> Nechushtan: architecture?
[06:46] <Nechushtan> amd64
[06:46] <Kamion> Nechushtan: probably grub-installer then
[06:46] <Nechushtan> though it happened with my Athlon XP too
[06:47] <Kamion> Nechushtan: it gets to me either way ;)
[06:47] <Nechushtan> haha
[06:47] <Nechushtan> ok
[07:05] <doko> lamont: as long as you don't cry as loud as fabbione about sparc ... ;-)
[07:06] <doko> jbailey: Mithrandir told me that you did want to make an amd64-libs-dev update to remove the conflicting headers
[07:07] <jbailey> doko: Yeah.
[07:08] <jbailey> doko: I want to do an l-k-h update that makes all of the headers biarch properly so that they're all available.
[07:08] <jbailey> doko: Then it'll just get treated the same as sparc, s390, and powerpc.
[07:08] <doko> jbailey: when? it's needed as a build-dep.
[07:09] <jbailey> doko: I'm tracing devmapper breakage, so I'll update lkh with that fix, and after that do the amd64-libs-dev.
[07:12] <lamont> jbailey/doko: for biarch, probably the best thing to do is leave the signed _source.changes for the stuff that needs to be built somewhere I can fetch it (preferrably in-LAN...), and give me steps
[07:13] <jbailey> lamont: It should literally be just installing the glibc, I think and then letting doko upload the new package.
[07:13] <doko> lamont: ppc64 biarch gcc doesn't build without a ppc64 kernel. fabbione doesn't want to build it, elmo probably doesn't have the time to do so
[07:13] <jbailey> doko: Really?  Hmm
[07:14] <Kamion> elmo: could you lisa the ubuntu-meta changes? I'd like to upload a matching debootstrap
[07:15] <Lathiat> hmm, bugger. tomboy crashes with the new mono
[07:15] <doko> jbailey: tries to run some 64bit binaries for building the runtime libs to see, if the 64bit support is there.
[07:16] <jbailey> doko: Hmm.  Isn't it possible to set it up so that it does the biarch bits like a cross compiler?
[07:18] <doko> jbailey: I didn't try. At least s390 and sparc didn't try that either
[07:20] <seb128> pitti: where is your page about informations to submit for utopia bugs?
[07:21] <pitti> seb128: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingRemovableDevices
[07:21] <seb128> oh, wiki page
[07:21] <elmo> doko: why are you uploading expect-tcl8.3 by hand?
[07:21] <seb128> I was looking on p.u.o
[07:21] <seb128> thanks
[07:23] <doko> elmo: stuck in Debian NEW, needed for gcc-4.0 on hppa
[07:26] <elmo> expect-tcl8.3           | 5.43.0-1                                              | source hppa        | 3 hours old
[07:26] <elmo> wow, that's _really_ stuck.  those evil crappy debian ftp folk
[07:27] <elmo> :P
[07:28] <Nafallo> hehe
[07:28] <doko> elmo: don't blame the poor ftp folk, but the ftp-master ;-)
[07:34] <Lathiat> elmo: haha
[07:37] <jordi> the ftp-masters are busy attending my NEW requests. Leave them alone!
[07:37] <Nafallo> lol
[07:38] <lamont> yeah - how dare they take more than 3 hours to push something through NEW. :-)
[07:38] <trukulo> jordi: promise them a beer
[07:46] <doko> elmo: is it now possible to sync from experimental?
[07:46] <elmo> doko: has been for eons
[07:47] <jordi> I need to tell mvo to do the magic required to get nano/experimental in breezy then
[07:47] <jordi> it won't be long before I upload it to unstable though
[07:48] <doko> elmo: eons must be < 3 months
[07:49] <jordi> that is eons in free software speak :)
[07:49] <elmo> hmm, why has trashapplet come back?
[07:49] <elmo> seb128: I assume we don't want it?
[07:49] <jordi> elmo: yeah, you don't
[07:50] <jordi> it was uploaded to Debian because Sarge won't have it in gnme-applets
[07:50] <jordi> it lacks conflicts, etc though
[07:50] <elmo> meh
[07:51] <elmo> do we not want 'suede' either?
[07:51] <jbailey> Wah, why doesn't i386 glibc have /usr/include/gnu/stubs.h?
[07:53] <seb128> elmo: no we don't
[07:53] <seb128> elmo: they have backported that for sarge since that's a GNOME 2.10 stuff
[07:53] <elmo> seb128: which? 
[07:53] <elmo> suede or trashapplet?
[07:53] <seb128> trashapplet
[07:53] <elmo> ok
[07:54] <trukulo> suede is icon artwork
[07:54] <trukulo> i mean, it shouldn't be official gnome stuff
[07:54] <elmo> so hang on.  we can fit a new arch into sarge, but not a new gnome?  ROCK ON.
[07:54] <jordi> elmo: hmm, funny thing is that trashapplet is only 4d old. I guess it won't make it in :)
[07:54] <elmo> </bitter and off-topic>
[07:54] <jbailey> elmo: </ >  Really?  Is it over that easily? =)
[07:55] <Nechushtan> whats /.dev ?
[07:55] <seb128> elmo: suede looks ok to me ... any issue with it?
[07:55] <jbailey> Nechushtan: It's the /dev directory that would be there if udev weren't running.
[07:55] <Nechushtan> ahh
[07:55] <jbailey> Nechushtan: Safe to ignore, unsafe to delete.
[07:55] <Nechushtan> yea
[07:56] <trukulo> Nechushtan: old entry for udev if it failed
[07:56] <Nechushtan> just never saw that in my other distros
[07:56] <elmo> seb128: I thought we had suede in ubuntu-artwork already or something.  but then I don't really notice/track all the icons and artwork and similar stuff, so I may be 12 months out-of-date
[07:57] <elmo> lamont: dude, is it really necessary to do all this postfix stuff?  it seems like a lot of delta for little gain
[07:57] <trukulo> elmo: not in hoary
[07:57] <seb128> elmo: I thought so, but I don't have any /usr/share/icons/Suede/ on my system, I think that was before having Human
[07:57] <trukulo> seb128: you're right, suede it's not in hoary
[07:58] <cartman> any ETA on a gcc update?
[07:58] <jbailey> lamont: Around?
[07:58] <jbailey> cartman: What's the rush?
[07:58] <cartman> jbailey: KDE blacklisted 4.0.0 :(
[07:58] <cartman> need 4.0.1 :/
[07:59] <cartman> aka 4.0 branch
[07:59] <jbailey> I think doko said the patch for that might already be in our setup, I don't recall for sure, though.
[07:59] <jbailey> There's alot of toolchain work over the next couple of weeks, though.  Have yous een the spec for the toolchain work that we wrote at UDU?
[07:59] <cartman> jbailey: its just version thing our g++ is 3.3 anyway :)
[07:59] <elmo> hey, how do I get mvo's update-crack in the panel?
[07:59] <Riddell> not yet but should be soon
[08:00] <doko> jbailey: the patch, that broke it, was not yet in the branch
[08:00] <elmo> it doesn't appear in the add to panel options
[08:00] <cartman> KDE only checks gcc :/
[08:01] <cartman> jbailey: yep ABI transition will be hairy...
[08:01] <elmo> Need to get 72.7MB of archives.
[08:01] <cartman> jbailey: I won't report c++ bugs for a month or so ;)
[08:01] <elmo> yay for security updates in inhumanly large packages
[08:01] <cartman> elmo: tetex security updates always rocks
[08:01] <cartman> ~45mb updates
[08:10] <elmo> jbailey: you're lucky, you can always log into rookery and look at them directly
[08:10] <elmo> and really, they should be bzip'ed.. they bzip _so damn well_ it's not funny
[08:10] <jbailey> Will browsers and such automatically unpack bzips?
[08:11] <elmo> dunno, but buildd.d.o does it, so I imagine so
[08:11] <jbailey> My thought was basically that every browser out there now unpacks .gz files without a problem, so at least do that.
[08:13] <seb128> grrrr, malone is b0rked
[08:13] <seb128> you can't even put a comment on a put
[08:14] <seb128> it eats it with an error on the first time
[08:14] <jordi> gtk bug?
[08:14] <seb128> then you get a window where you can enter the bug again
[08:14] <seb128> and you need to click again after that to get the comment on the bug
[08:14] <seb128> jordi: no way
[08:15] <seb128> and you can't put a comment when you close a bug ...
[08:15] <seb128> you need to change it to close
[08:15] <jordi> it's always gtk bug :)
[08:15] <jordi> I gotta leave.
[08:15] <seb128> then click on the link to get the bug page
[08:15] <seb128> and then put a comment ...
[08:15] <seb128> jordi: later
[08:16] <jordi> seb128: upload to experimental!
[08:16] <jordi> err, unstable
[08:16] <seb128> what ?
[08:17] <jordi> gnome!
[08:17] <jordi> gone now
[08:17] <seb128> ah ah
[08:17] <jbailey> Something is officially screwed.
[08:18] <jbailey> dpkg -x shows that libc6-dev has /usr/include/gnu/stubs.h, but when I dpkg -i it, it's not there.
[08:18] <elmo> jbailey: multi-arch diversion crack? :P
[08:18] <seb128> dpkg-divert ?
[08:18] <jbailey> Might be, checking all that.
[08:19] <jbailey> Yar.
[08:19] <jbailey> Yeah,
[08:19] <jbailey> Looks like amd64-libs-dev
[08:21] <jbailey> hmm
[08:21] <jbailey> which isn't installed. =(
[08:21] <jbailey> So I'm guessing the postinst fails to remove the divert.
[08:22] <jbailey> Well, maybe I'll do the lkh/amd64-libs-dev upload *before* I fix devmapper then.
[08:25] <mdz> morning
[08:25] <Nafallo> goodmorning mdz :-)
[08:26] <ogra> morning mdz 
[08:26] <trukulo> afteroon matt :)
[08:30] <zul> hey mdz 
[08:35] <ghetek1> im sorry to bother with a support question but nobody knows in any other irc room. I'm on an imac, i dont know what type but i know its a slot loader.  i put in the live cd but it doesnt give me a gui. it says it has problems finding my display. any help would be much appreciated
[08:43] <seb128> mdz: do you know what is wrong with aspell? Building the package on my box fixes the issue, but the version from the buildd doesn't work
[08:43] <mdz> seb128: I thought mako said that he fixed it with rebuilds in the archive
[08:44] <Kamion> ghetek1: try booting with the 'video=ofonly' kernel argument?
[08:44] <seb128> mdz: I've uploaded a new aspell this afternoon but the result is still b0rked
[08:44] <seb128> mdz: and rebuilding on my box works as said
[08:45] <seb128> mdz: that puzzles me a bit, so if you have an idea ... :)
[08:45] <mdz> seb128: b0rked == unresolved symbols?
[08:46] <seb128> right
[08:46] <seb128> ** (gedit:7780): WARNING **: Error, unable to open module file '/usr/lib/libaspell.so.15: undefined symbol: _ZTVN10__cxxabiv120__si_class_type_infoE'
[08:46] <seb128> by example
[08:47] <mdz> is aspell written in C++?
[08:48] <cartman> mdz: yes
[08:48] <cartman> and its not linking to libstdc++ for some reason
[08:48] <seb128> mdz: right
[08:48] <mdz> cartman: yep
[08:48] <mdz> seb128: is it being linked by libtool?
[08:49] <seb128> yes
[08:50] <mdz>  g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I./gen -I./gen -I./common -I./interfaces/cc/ -I./modules/speller/default/ -DLOCALEDIR=\"/usr/share/locale\" -g -Wall -O2 -fno-exceptions -MT modules/filter/url.lo -MD -MP -MF modules/filter/.deps/url.Tpo -c modules/filter/url.cpp  -fPIC -DPIC -o modules/filter/.libs/url.o
[08:50] <mdz> /bin/sh ./libtool --tag=CXX --mode=link g++  -g -Wall -O2 -fno-exceptions   -o libaspell.la -rpath /usr/lib -version-info 16:2:1 -no-undefined common/cache.lo common/string.lo common/getdata.lo common/itemize.lo common/file_util.lo common/string_map.lo common/string_list.lo common/config.lo common/posib_err.lo common/errors.lo common/error.lo common/fstream.lo common/iostream.lo common/info.lo common/can_have_error.lo common/conver
[08:50] <mdz> t.lo common/tokenizer.lo common/speller.lo common/document_checker.lo common/filter.lo common/objstack.lo common/strtonum.lo common/gettext_init.lo common/file_data_util.lo modules/speller/default/readonly_ws.lo modules/speller/default/suggest.lo modules/speller/default/data.lo modules/speller/default/multi_ws.lo modules/speller/default/phonetic.lo modules/speller/default/writable.lo modules/speller/default/speller_impl.lo modules/
[08:50] <mdz> speller/default/phonet.lo modules/speller/default/typo_editdist.lo modules/speller/default/editdist.lo modules/speller/default/primes.lo modules/speller/default/language.lo modules/speller/default/leditdist.lo modules/speller/default/affix.lo modules/tokenizer/basic.lo lib/filter-c.lo lib/word_list-c.lo lib/info-c.lo lib/mutable_container-c.lo lib/error-c.lo lib/document_checker-c.lo lib/string_map-c.lo lib/new_config.lo lib/config
[08:50] <mdz> -c.lo lib/string_enumeration-c.lo lib/can_have_error-c.lo lib/dummy.lo lib/new_filter.lo lib/new_fmode.lo lib/string_list-c.lo lib/find_speller.lo lib/speller-c.lo lib/string_pair_enumeration-c.lo lib/new_checker.lo modules/filter/url.lo    -ldl -ldl 
[08:50] <mdz> libtool: ignoring unknown tag CXX
[08:50] <mdz> mkdir .libs
[08:50] <mdz> eek, sorry
[08:50] <mdz> doko: is it kosher to link using 'gcc' rather than 'g++'?
[08:51] <seb128> $ grep unknown *.build
[08:51] <seb128> $
[08:51] <seb128> don't get such error with my local build
[08:51] <mdz> seb128: yes, that's very odd
[08:51] <mdz> the libtool in /usr/bin/libtool has CXX
[08:51] <elmo> mdz: no
[08:51] <doko> mdz: no, if you link g++ code.
[08:52] <mdz> that'll be the problem, then
[08:52] <elmo> (didn't we have this discussion already?)
[08:52] <mdz> if test "" = "post" ; then \
[08:52] <mdz> 	if test -e ./libtool ; then cp -f /usr/bin/libtool ./libtool ; fi ; \
[08:52] <mdz> fi
[08:52] <mdz> elmo: yes, but I couldn't remember if it was ld vs. g{cc,++} or gcc vs. g++
[08:52] <trulux> mdz: hi?
[08:52] <mdz> trulux: hi
[08:53] <mdz> seb128: where does the top-level libtool come from?
[08:53] <mdz> is it just shipped with the source package?
[08:54] <elmo> gar, that's so satanic
[08:56] <seb128> mdz: the source package has no libtool
[08:56] <seb128> the configure does that here:
[08:56] <seb128> configure: creating libtool
[08:56] <seb128> appending configuration tag "CXX" to libtool
[08:56] <mdz> yeah, just saw that
[08:57] <mdz> seb128: does the libtool in your build have 'CXX' in it?
[08:57] <seb128> $ grep CXX libtool 
[08:57] <seb128> available_tags=" CXX"
[08:57] <seb128> as said by the configure output "appending configuration tag "CXX" to libtool"
[08:57] <mdz> seb128: it looks like it is running libtoolize during the build
[08:58] <mdz> it shouldn't do that
[08:58] <mdz> oh, no it isn't
[08:58] <mdz> are those "pre" and "post" things cdbs hooks?
[08:59] <seb128> jbailey: ? :)
[08:59] <elmo> it doesn't build-depend on libtool
[08:59] <elmo> so it must be creating it from the source pkg
[08:59] <elmo> bah, why isn't there a breezy-i386-chroot on concordia
[09:01] <astharot> ciao
[09:06] <mdz> lamont: ping
[09:16] <Kamion> elmo: hmm, moving ubuntu-minimal and ubuntu-standard to main would be good, too :)
[09:16] <tseng|work> lame ass irc-cgi
[09:32] <tseng|work> heya mako
[09:33] <jbailey> seb128: here.
[09:33] <elmo> Kamion: picky picky
[09:34] <Kamion> elmo: details, y'know
[09:34] <Kamion> (thanks)
[09:34] <tseng|work> that -minimal stuff is pretty rad
[09:40] <Nechushtan> I know, wrong channel, but kinda depserate: can someone help me get my amd64 kernel setup to see my IDE drives?
[09:40] <cartman> Nechushtan: select AMD xxx thing in IDE driver section
[09:40] <cartman> compile them in and it works
[09:42] <Nechushtan> IDE driver section?
[09:42] <Nechushtan> oh, recompile the kernel
[09:42] <Nechushtan> so the packaged amd64 kernel doesn't support ide?
[09:43] <cartman> errr?
[09:43] <cartman> default kernel works fine
[09:43] <Nechushtan> then I'm confused
[09:43] <cartman> I thought you were recompiling your own kernel
[09:43] <Nechushtan> ah, no
[09:43] <Nechushtan> just trying to get ubuntu installed and running
[09:43] <cartman> it works fine with an nforce4 mobo here
[09:43] <Nechushtan> is there a special module I have to install?
[09:44] <cartman> nope afaik
[09:44] <Nechushtan> argg
[09:46] <jbailey> Nechushtan: initrd-tools should go through all the chipset modules.  If it's missing one, please let me know.
[09:46] <Nechushtan> jbailey: little more detail please
[09:47] <Nechushtan> jbailey: the install cd found the drives fine, but I had to unplug all my ATA drives to get ubuntu to install, now I'm trying to reconnect them
[09:53] <Nechushtan> ugh
[09:56] <jbailey> You had to unplug the drives?
[09:56] <jbailey> Like the harddrive from the chain, as opposed to the controller right?
[09:57] <Nechushtan> jbailey: yea, I just unplugged the drive cable from the mobo and the pci ATA100 card so that grub would install on my scsi drive
[09:57] <Nechushtan> which, when i did it with the i386 installer worked fine after i plugged them back in
[09:58] <jbailey> Otherwise how was it failing?
[09:59] <seb128> jbailey: nm, that was just about the <mdz> are those "pre" and "post" things cdbs hooks?
[09:59] <jbailey> seb128: Ah, okay.  All sorted out?
[09:59] <Nechushtan> from the installer grub only installs on the first bios drive (ie no worky for scsi) and lilo is just fubar in the installer
[09:59] <seb128> not really, but that's not a cdbs issue
[10:00] <Nechushtan> the weird thing is it won't even see the drive i have plugged into the onboard ATA controller
[10:02] <Nechushtan> weird, "PCI: cannot allocate resource region 3 of device 0000:00:01.1" when i boot with the Ultra100 pci card plugged in...
[10:03] <seb128> elmo: is serpentine (new package) somewhere? I've not received a NEW mail apparently
[10:08] <Nechushtan> the kernel seems to not be able to allocate resources for my ATA card
[10:11] <Nechushtan> ok, what do I need to do to get udev to create /dev/hd?
[10:14] <mdz> seb128: perhaps when lamont emerges, he can help us find out what is happening differently on the buildd
[10:14] <seb128> would be nice
[10:15] <seb128> hum, I'm reading ubuntu-user, there is a new thread about cdparanoia/sound-juicer beeing slow on ubuntu 
[10:15] <seb128> any chance that would be a kernel issue?
[10:16] <mdz> seb128: does your configure say 'appending configuration tag "CXX"' also?
[10:16] <mdz> seb128: probably it is due to the fact that we disable DMA on CD-ROMs by default
[10:16] <seb128> we have 2-3x speed, according to user Suse does 15x 
[10:16] <seb128> according to user hdparm doesn't change a lot 
[10:16] <mdz> seb128: #3672
[10:16] <mdz> oh
[10:16] <bluefoxicy> cups broke in breezy.
[10:16] <mdz> if hdparm doesn't fix it, I don't know
[10:16] <bluefoxicy> my printer doesn't work.
[10:17] <seb128> mdz: 
 configure: creating libtool
 appending configuration tag "CXX" to libtool
[10:17] <mdz> bluefoxicy: mine either; have you tried to find out why?
[10:17] <bluefoxicy> I print, it pauses the printer, i resume it, it pauses it again.
[10:17] <mdz> seb128: I wasn't sure if you were pasting from the buildd log or yours
[10:17] <bluefoxicy> I deleted the printer, recreated, printed, it did it again.
[10:17] <seb128> mdz: according to the thread this seems to work better with ide-scsi ... I'll give a try
[10:17] <bluefoxicy> mdz:  I tried reinstalling cups and restarting it and flushing and all
[10:17] <ogra> mdz, the mail talks about (upstream) known issues with te kernel module
[10:17] <seb128> mdz: from my box
[10:18] <bluefoxicy> mdz:  no luck.
[10:18] <seb128> bluefoxicy: same here
[10:18] <mdz> bluefoxicy: but did you do some investigation to try to find the source of the problem?
[10:18] <mdz> I would like to, but I don't have time
[10:18] <bluefoxicy> mdz:  no, that's as far as I kno how to do.
[10:19] <bluefoxicy> I don't have a debugger on cupsd
[10:22] <mdz> for one thing, /dev/usb/lp0 on my system has the wrong permissions, but that is not the only problem
[10:23] <seb128> right, root.root here
[10:23] <seb128> udev issue?
[10:23] <mdz> that allows me to print a test page, but the PDF document I want to print still doesn't go
[10:23] <mdz> udev has changed the way that it deals with these permissions
[10:23] <mdz> it used to use: usb/lp[0-9] *:root:lp:0660
[10:23] <mdz> now it does: SUBSYSTEM="printer",    GROUP="lp"
[10:24] <bluefoxicy> that fixes it
[10:24] <mdz> hmm, in fact it is doing both
[10:25] <jbailey> Mithrandir: Around?
[10:27] <mdz> never mind
[10:27] <mdz> /etc/udev/permissions.d seems to be ignored now
[10:27] <mdz> so I was right the first time; it is using SUBSYSTEM instead of pathnames
[10:28] <mdz> does anyone know how SUBSYSTEM works?
[10:30] <Nechushtan> screw it. time to try Kanotix...
[10:31] <mdz> Nechushtan: I understand that you're frustrated, but that isn't a good way to get help.  See http://www.ubuntu.com/support/
[10:31] <sjoerd> mdz: /sys/class/<subsystemname>/<name>/dev mostly except for block..
[10:32] <mdz> sjoerd: so udev probably unfers SUBSYSTEM from the sysfs pathname?
[10:32] <mdz> s/unfers/infers/
[10:32] <jbailey> It would pretty much have to, I'd guess.
[10:32] <jbailey> Can tell you in a sec.
[10:32] <sjoerd> maybe it's passed in the hotplug event too, not sure
[10:32] <Nechushtan> mdz: well, it works with the i586 install but i can't for the life of me figure out why the amd64 kernel won't see any IDE drives and I'm just not familiar enough with /dev to figure it out
[10:34] <mdz> Nechushtan: this channel is intended for developer discussion, not for getting help with problems.  that's what #ubuntu is for.
[10:35] <jbailey> mdz: "udev" expectes SUBSYSTEM as an environment variable, udevstart sets it for inital start.
[10:35] <Echylo> damn, need to set encoding options, this channel looks all chinese for me :|
[10:35] <Echylo> so much too learn, so little time
[10:36] <mdz> jbailey: so udevstart gets it from the sysfs path, otherwise the kernel provides it?
[10:36] <jbailey> mdz: Looks like that, yeah.
[10:36] <jbailey> Trying to confirm the gets-it-from-the-sysfs path bit,
[10:36] <bluefoxicy> mdz:  steal another distro's udev config and tweak it :P
[10:36] <bluefoxicy> why do the work twice :)
[10:37] <mdz> bluefoxicy: do I need to explain the charter of this channel again?
[10:38] <bluefoxicy> mdz:  after I look up the definition of charter in the dictionary as pertaining to anything other than catching a bus?
[10:40] <mdz> bluefoxicy: are you being deliberately obtuse?
[10:40] <GheRivero> res
[10:41] <bluefoxicy> mdz:  um.  Eh, I kinda get what you're saying, you're just using words in ways I haven't encountered before.
[10:47] <mdz> jbailey: is there some way to get udevsend to dump the environment, or do I need to wrap it?
[10:47] <jbailey> mdz: I haven't played with udevsend at all, sorry.
[10:49] <jbailey> mdz: There's no command line parsing or debug stuff in the code.
[10:50] <jbailey> mm, dbg(), not debug.
[10:50] <mdz> yes, seems ot end up syslogging with LOG_DEBUG
[10:51] <mdz> but it doesn't come through; perhaps it isn't compiled in
[10:52] <jbailey> mdz: Needs a rebuild with -DDEBUG
[10:53] <mdz> bah, easier to wrap it
[10:54] <mdz> it's coming through with SUBSYSTEM=usb, not SUBSYSTEM=printer
[10:56] <mdz> or rather, I see SUBSYSTEM=usb events come through, but no SUBSYSTEM=printer event
[10:57] <mdz> udevsend.env.7600:DEVPATH=/class/usb/lp0
[10:57] <mdz> SUBSYSTEM=usb
[10:59] <jbailey> mdz: Do you want that double checked?  I don't have a usb printer handy at the moment, but I can arrange one in 10-15 minutes.  Where I'm staying has one in a pile in the next room apparently.
[10:59] <mdz> jbailey: seb128 confirmed
[10:59] <mdz> I'm just not sure how to fix i tyet
[10:59] <mdz> it yet
[10:59] <mdz> this is https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10004
[11:00] <jbailey> FWIW, I think scanner devices are wrong too, so that whole bit might be off in the new udev.
[11:01] <jbailey> mdz: Shall I take this bug?
[11:03] <mdz> jbailey: please
[11:04] <mdz> I noticed a bug report about scanners, but I don't recall whether it was breezy or hoary
[11:04] <mdz> or even warty
[11:04] <seb128> hum, not faster with ide-scsi here 
[11:04] <mdz> seb128: SuSE's kernel is very different from ours; it could be anything really
[11:05] <seb128> right
[11:05] <mdz> they are probably also using a different cdparanoia
[11:05] <jbailey> mdz: I'm pretty certain my scanner only stopped when I upgraded to breezy, and not with my glibc testing.
[11:05] <Treenaks> suse has scary automount-ish stuff in the kernel
[11:06] <glyph> If I need to build drivers that live in the kernel source tree normally (in my case, fs/cifs), how can I convince make-kpkg to build a kernel that looks *exactly* like the running one, i.e. will have compatible modules?  I did make-kpkg kernel-image --append-to-version -5-k7 but modprobe complains that my new cifs.ko 'disagrees about version of symbol struct_module'
[11:07] <glyph> (after copying /boot/config-2.6.10-5-k7 to .config, of course)
[11:08] <mdz> glyph: #ubuntu, please
[11:10] <glyph> mdz: Already been there.  With 500+ people on the channel, many of whom are clueless, there is not much hope of getting help there on anything detailed anymore :-).  I figured that this was a sufficiently esoteric question it might warrant discussing here - sorry for using an inappropriate venue.  I am also curious though, whether ubuntu's kernel uses a non-standard cifs subsystem, because it's been badly broken enough for me that I 
[11:11] <lamont> mdz: ack
[11:11] <lamont> mdz: which package?
[11:11] <mdz> lamont: aspell
[11:12] <lamont> 0.60.2+20050121-2ubuntu1 built successfully *4
[11:12] <mdz> lamont: I know; read scrollback please
[11:12] <mdz> it builds, but doesn't work
[11:13] <lamont> k
[11:13] <mdz> fabbione: what remains to be done for 2.6.12rc?
[11:13] <mdz> lamont: seb128's local build works, though
[11:18] <lamont> mdz: in a pristene chroot? or just on his machine full of packages?
[11:18] <seb128> machine full of packages :p
[11:18] <seb128> pbuilder even
[11:36] <seb128> lamont: the pbuilder version works fine too
[11:36] <lamont> yeah.  and rebuilding in a fresh chroot on the buildd fails.  chroot on my machine works.
[11:40] <seb128> elmo: poppler sync from Debian please
[11:43] <jblack> Do you guys have something smart planned for device enumaration? 
[11:44] <jblack> My usb key and printer both have usb filesystems and they swap sda sdb depending upon which one is plugged in first.
[11:46] <jbailey> jbailey: ISTR that hotplug is supposed to have some sort of magic that can be used for that, but I don't know anything about it.
[11:46] <jbailey> jbailey: Do you just drop .ps files in the filesystem for the printer?
[11:47] <seb128> jbailey: stop talking to yourself, big freak :)
[11:47] <jbailey> seb128: Perhaps I'm still jetlagged.
[11:47] <seb128> ah ah
[11:48] <jbailey> seb128: Or given that occasionally the folks doing the scheduling couldn't tell jblack and I appart, I've simply caught whatever they had ;)
[11:48] <seb128> :p
[11:49] <mdz> jblack: if it's important that they have useful names, label them
[11:49] <mdz> jblack: then they'll be mounted according to the label
[11:50] <mdz> we're not currently planning to do anything about sda vs. sdb, but rather provide another layer of naming on top of that
[11:50] <jblack> will that work with things like autofs? 
[11:54] <mdz> autofs is a different beast
[11:54] <mdz> I don't recommend using it for removable media
[11:55] <jblack> Perhaps I'm using the wrong tools then. 
[11:57] <jblack> This is how I've got things setup. I keep all of my important stuff on a usb key -- gpg key, ssh key, baz archives, etc, all symlinked to the appropriate places on my filesystems. When I want to ssh somewhere, if my key is inserted, autofs mounts the usb key, ssh grabs the key. then, about 60 seconds later, its unmounted. 
[11:57] <jnc> and when your flash drive goes kaput
[11:57] <jblack> (that ended with "60 later, its unmounted" 
[11:57] <jblack> jnc: pardon? 
[11:58] <jnc> jblack: flash block devices are not the most reliable things
[11:58] <jblack> jnc: I occasionally make an encrypted backup. 
[11:58] <Nafallo> jnc: that's why you keep backups of stuff :-)
[11:58] <jnc> i've seen more than 5 go bad in the course of a few years
[12:00] <jblack> jnc: anyways, they're good for 10k mounts. I don't mind if the key is going to be good for a year or so, because by then, I can buy a device with twice the flash at 1/2 the cost. Even now, I could superceed my $90 256mb key with a $60 512mb one.