[12:00] <jblack> I rarely write to the device anyways. Usually its just reads. 
[12:01] <jnc> i'm just asserting whether or not you rely on it to be the only copy of your data
[12:01] <jblack> So, if autofs isn't the recommended method for what I'm doing, what is? 
[12:02] <HrdwrBoB> jnc: if you want to do that, replace it semi regularly
[12:02] <HrdwrBoB> in any case, I wouldn't trust anything to be the only copy of data
[12:03] <jblack> I think we've wandered from the original question.
[12:03] <tseng> wth, that aspell rebuild is still broken
[12:04] <jblack> The problem I have is that I'm getting into a mess because my printer has a filesystem too. so, depending on whether my key is in during boot or not, it changes devices. 
[12:05] <HrdwrBoB> ah
[12:05] <jnc> jblack: that info is in /sys
[12:05] <HrdwrBoB> the easiest way to deal with that is to put a volume name on your key
[12:05] <seb128> tseng: read the chan log
[12:05] <HrdwrBoB> that way it'll be mounted under /media/name
[12:05] <jnc> that too
[12:05] <tseng> seb128: ok
[12:06] <tseng> seb128: ew
[12:06] <jblack> I think I've succeeded in disabling the daemon that does /media/name
[12:07] <jblack> I had problems with it not automatically unmounting fast enough.
[12:07] <tseng> that would be hal, pmount and gnome-volume-manager on top
[12:07] <jblack> kde here. :) 
[12:07] <tseng> unmounting fast enough to do what?
[12:08] <jblack> To minimize the risk from yanking the key out while in a rush. :)
[12:08] <tseng> yeah um :)
[12:08] <tseng> it unmounts it after it relized you yanked it
[12:09] <tseng> heh.
[12:09] <jblack> its a little late then. :) 
[12:09] <tseng> yeah it should include a mind reading module
[12:09] <Nafallo> hehe
[12:09] <jblack> that's why I've got automount doing a 60 second auto-unmount.
[12:09] <tseng> or just look into the future.
[12:09] <jblack> autofs, that is
[12:11] <mdz> jblack: this is really a #ubuntu sort of conversation
[12:13] <jblack> sorry. I'm used to working the baz way. 
[12:31] <lamont> mdz: issue isolated, pondering clean solutions
[12:35] <seb128> lamont: about aspell ?
[12:41] <eruin> is n-c-b 2.11 making its way into breezy anytime soonish?
[12:42] <seb128> when it's ready
[12:42] <mdz> eruin: we have a lot of higher-priority work to do at the moment
[12:42] <eruin> mdz: yup, just curious ;)
[12:44] <seb128> I tend to think than ubuntu has the new GNOME package quickly usually
[12:44] <seb128> there is no real point to ask for non-tarballed version here though ...
[12:45] <seb128> ie: there is no n-c-b 2.11 atm
[12:45] <lamont> seb128: yes. aspell. and others
[12:46] <seb128> lamont: what is b0rked for aspell ?
[12:46] <eruin> seb128: yeah, I was just wondering since I'm tracking rhythmbox--merge which just upped its req. to 2.11 ;) - whether or not to build it myself
[12:46] <lamont> gcc invocation, but not aspell's doing.  (g++ -v != g++ -pipe -v)
[12:47] <lamont> rather, g++ invocation.
[12:47] <seb128> hum, k
[12:48] <seb128> GNOME 2.11.0 is planned for soon anyway
[12:48] <seb128> BTW time for sleep now, 'night
[12:48] <eruin> nn
[12:58] <mdz> daniels: for building thin clients, it'd be nice to have a way to tell xserver-xorg "don't even bother"
[12:58] <mdz> would be useful for the livefs builds as well, really
[01:04] <Kamion> yay, joeyh is rattling through the initramfs d-i hacking
[01:04] <Kamion> hooray for synchronicity
[01:13] <mdz> Kamion: how close is a debootstrappable breezy?
[01:14] <mdz> I don't need it right away, but down the road it will be necessary for thin client testing
[01:15] <Kamion> mdz: coincidentally I was just finishing off the debootstrap upload to reduce to the minimal seed
[01:15] <mdz> yay
[01:16] <Kamion> elmo: I don't believe http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/breezy_probs.html for one second; is that really working properly?
[01:16] <Kamion> mdz: (I uploaded it before I looked back at this window, so it's on its way)
[01:18] <Kamion> elmo: does breezy need to be added to the MERGE section of /srv/ftp.no-name-yet.com/testing/britney?
[01:20] <Amaranth> sarge froze?
[01:20] <Kamion> yes
[01:20] <Amaranth> err, wrong channel :0
[01:20] <Amaranth> err, :)
[01:20] <Amaranth> I'll try trying now
[01:20] <Amaranth> ack
[01:26] <ajmitch_> btw, where's the MoM results for universe?
[01:51] <lamont> mdz/elmo: did we decide on 'build' as the auto-syncable upload word?  3.1.3-1build1?
[01:51] <lamont> new aspell uploaded
[01:54] <lamont> fabbione: you around?
[01:55] <mdz> lamont: yes
[01:55] <lamont> mdz: ok. lftp needs a little love as well
[02:01] <mdz> lamont: please close #9906 if aspell turns out OK
[02:08] <toresbe> The Ubuntu installer is a version of debian-installer, right?
[02:09] <tseng> yes.
[02:21] <toresbe> night, and ganbatte
[02:37] <zul> fabbione: i added hostap support this afternoon
[02:40] <zul> good chelsea lost :)
[02:41] <cc> say, is ubuntu hoary using EVMS or LVM2?
[02:43] <jdub> cc: both
[02:43] <cc> jdub: is EVMS going away (w/LVM2 being the preferred method)?
[02:43] <cc> btw, hi jdub. well rested?
[02:48] <mdke> jdub, sorry to be pinging you again
[02:50] <jdub> cc: don't think so, evms seems to be the better set of tools
[02:50] <jdub> cc: not sure if i'm well rested yet ;)
[02:50] <cc> jdub: hmm, i was under the impression that upstream evms was dead
[02:50] <cc> jdub: well, go out, party, enjoy the marriage and stuff
[02:51] <jdub> cc: best to ask mdz about this
[02:51] <cc> ok, will do when mdz is next around
[02:51] <mdz> cc: evms upstream is manifestly alive and very responsive
[02:52] <cc> mdz: ah, you're around. so the installer should be preferring evms over lvm2 in the next release (breezy)?
[02:52] <mdz> cc: there is currently no defined plan for adding EVMS support to the installer, though I am interested in seeing it happen
[03:18] <jsgotangco> good morning
[03:18] <tseng> hi
[03:23] <ajmitch_> hi jsgotangco 
[03:25] <jsgotangco> hi tseng, ajmitch_ how's it going
[03:25] <tseng> its lame user night
[03:26] <jsgotangco> hehe
[03:27] <ajmitch_> breaking things like usual
[03:29] <tseng> yeah how do we unbreak my uploads
[03:30] <jdub> tseng: did aspell go in?
[03:30] <tseng> jdub: yes
[03:30] <jdub> cool
[03:32] <mdz> has anyone seen thom since UDU?
[03:32] <tseng> only idle 7 hours
[03:34] <dilinger> meh, i have to take infinity abuse here now?
[03:36] <infinity> dilinger : infinity abuse?
[03:36] <infinity> mdz : He's VAC, isn't he?
[03:37] <infinity> (Which I should have done too... I'm developing a seriously nasty flu since I got back)
[03:38] <jsgotangco> ouch
 joshk: i upgraded apache2.  i blame infinity for the breakage
[03:39] <dilinger> infinity: how's the wife and kids?
[03:39] <infinity> The wife is good.  The kids are nonexistant, and we're keeping it that way.
[03:39] <infinity> Unless, by "kids", you mean "daniels", and I assume he's fine, but I haven't seen him since getting back.
[03:41] <dilinger> heh
[03:41] <dilinger> i dunno
[03:41] <dilinger> all i see in error.log is a SIGTERM
[03:42] <tseng> ugh libgda transition
[03:42] <tseng> is that already planned?
[03:44] <mdz> infinity: that was before UDU, not after, unless you know something I (and StaffCalendar) don't
[03:44] <infinity> No, I'm probably just fuzzy in the head.
[03:47] <HrdwrBoB> how big is universe?
[03:47] <zul> pretty big...lots and lots of planets :)
[03:49] <mdz> daniels: ping
[04:06] <Amaranth> tseng: the libgda stuff didn't hurt anything before (could be ignored) but now python2.4-gnome2-extras needs the new one
[04:49] <Unfrgiven> hey all ive got a friend trying to install ubuntu on a thinkpad R31. he said that he has screen corruption as soon as the install starts and hence can't install. is there any tricks i can ask him to try? i have him on instant messenger right now so i could prolly try stuff
[04:51] <z3k3> ask in #ubuntu
[04:51] <z3k3> you'll get better response
[04:51] <Unfrgiven> z3k3: k thanks.
[04:51] <z3k3> there should be a "text" option
[04:51] <z3k3> when he's sitting at the prompt tell him to go through the help stuff
[04:51] <z3k3> good luck.
[05:00] <womble> Unfrgiven: The "F1 at boot: prompt" gave me the right option to use on my R31 a month or so ago
[05:07] <Unfrgiven> womble: ok thanks. my friend is a bit of a newbie and says that he cant see anything for this option... ill boot off the cd and have a look myself.
[05:11] <womble> Don't have to boot, the option screens are browsable on the CD
[05:12] <womble> vga=771 (via F5)
[05:13] <womble> So "linux vga=771" is what needs to be entered
[05:13] <womble> Unfrgiven:  I recall that worked for me
[05:14] <fabbione> morning
[05:19] <Unfrgiven> womble: ok thanks. i found something that aloows you to turn off the framebuffer
[05:20] <Unfrgiven> womble: so it seems we have a solution for my friend... he's out for lunch. so ill have to wait till he returns
[05:20] <Unfrgiven> womble: thanks for your help though
[05:21] <womble> Unfrgiven: no probs
[05:22] <womble> Be warned that Hoary on the R31 is likely to cause some occasional mouse spastics.  
[05:22] <womble> Turning off the battery monitor helps a bit, but it'll still happen occasionally
[05:27] <blahrus> wondering if it was a bug with breezy and nothing having aspell working?
[05:27] <jdub> blahrus: upgrade
[05:27] <lamont-away> blahrus: #9906
[05:28] <lamont-away> and fixed
[05:28] <lamont> hrm... should have changed that a while ago...
[05:28] <blahrus> thanks guys
[05:31] <blahrus> jdub: still not spell checking
[05:32] <jdub> lamont: is postfix-tls now rolled in to postfix?
[05:33] <jdub> lamont: or just momentarily incompatible?
[05:33] <lamont> jdub: builtin
[05:33] <jdub> lovely, thanks :)
[05:33] <lamont> jdub: mind you, it may be broken... feel free to bitch...
[05:33] <jdub> heh
[05:34] <blahrus> i how your not reffering to me bitching
[05:34] <blahrus> hope not how
[05:36] <infinity> lamont : Did you figure out what went wrong with your keysigning?
[05:39] <jdub> lamont: is the tls stuff simpler now?
[05:42] <Unfrgiven> infinity: all this time i thought i was doing something wrong with lamont's keys... im happy to hear it wasn't me :)
[05:43] <jsgotangco> yeah something's wrong eheh
[05:51] <lamont> infinity: haven't looked yet
[05:51] <lamont> figured I'd let the dust settle this week
[05:52] <jsgotangco> lamont, no rush :) take your time
[05:52] <lamont> a bunch of them worked, though.  that's the annoying part
[05:53] <infinity> Well, I blame Kinnison.
[05:53] <lamont> infinity: to be fair - I ignored an error...
[05:53] <infinity> Oh.  In that case, I blame you. :)
[05:56] <jsgotangco> whiprush, ping?
[06:15] <pitti> good mor*yawn*ing
[06:15] <fabbione> hey pitti
[06:18] <dilinger> pitti: yawn indeed
[06:19] <infinity> pitti : A quick glance of the php3 stuff looks like he just pulled my changes directly from Debian, so it should be fine.  Want me to actually compare for paranoia's sake?
[06:21] <pitti> infinity: no, I don't think that he actually changed anything
[06:22] <pitti> infinity: btw, do you think we should go into the warty-ffox test phase soon?
[06:22] <pitti> Morning ogra!
[06:22] <infinity> pitti : Yes, just let me fix console-tools to stop sucking first.
[06:22] <pitti> infinity: ah, that keymap error on boot?
[06:22] <infinity> pitti : If you can find some suckers^Wvolunteers who are willing to test, that'd be cool.
[06:24] <pitti> infinity: we mail the internal ML about this and require everybody to do so :-)
[06:27] <lamont> hrm... /me bets Kamion isn't awake yet.
[06:37] <pitti> mdz: still up?
[06:37] <mdz> pitti: yes
[06:38] <fabbione> hey mdz
[06:39] <bob2> what's up with http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/multiverse/t/transcode/?  it doesn't seem to be built on any architecture.
[06:40] <fabbione> bob2: check people.u.c/~lamont/buildLogs/
[06:40] <infinity> bob2 : FTBFS on all arches.
[06:41] <bob2> ah, right
[06:41] <bob2> needs non-existent build-deps
[06:42] <lamont> yeah - missing build-deps
[06:42] <lamont> bob2: libavcodec-dev should do the trick... or ffmpeg
[06:45] <pitti> daniels: here?
[06:47] <fabbione> good night lamont 
[06:55] <Mithrandir> hm; how was the selection for the minimal seed done?
[06:55] <infinity> Meh, where's jbailey when you need him?
[06:55] <Mithrandir> asleep, most likely
[06:56] <infinity> I wonder if he'd do painful things to me if I uploaded a new linux-kernel-headers.
[06:59] <crimsun> transcode is dying on i386 because of a missing libdivxencore0 (no divx4linux source package)
[07:02] <crimsun> among many others. Hmm, troublesome.
[07:07] <bob2> yeah
[07:15] <mdz> a lot of that zany stuff is gcc-4.0-unfriendly
[07:17] <infinity> mdz : Any objections to a new linux-kernel-headers with a 1-line change to include/linux/keyboard.h (to match 2.6.12-rc3)?
[07:17] <fabbione> infinity: i do object :)
[07:17] <infinity> I'd wait for jbailey to come back, but this is what's breaking the console-tools build. :)
[07:17] <fabbione> infinity: i think jb has other changes pending for l-k-h
[07:18] <infinity> fabbione : Most likely, yes, but I doubt his intersect with mine (unless he's updating the whole thing to a newer upstream)
[07:19] <mdz> jbailey should be around within ~6 hours, I expect
[07:19] <fabbione> infinity: i would be much more happy to wait for jb
[07:19] <infinity> Mmkay.
[07:19] <infinity> I'll wait.
[07:20] <fabbione> since even a line change in l-k-h has been killing sparc/hppa/ia64
[07:20] <infinity> I could hack around it in console-tools, but that feels less correct.
[07:21] <fabbione> can't console-tool just wait 6 hours?
[07:21] <infinity> Yup. :)
[07:21] <fabbione> than sit down and take a very loooong smoke :)
[07:21] <infinity> I'll mail him, mind you, since I may not be here in 6 hours.  But no big deal.
[07:30] <fabbione> thom, elmo: piiiing???
[08:54] <Treenaks> edd: you're my new hero
[08:58] <lifeless> edd: oh, if you have baz questions. .. just ping me ;)
[09:10] <fabbione> elmo: davis breezy chroot is borked.. i think it's the usual udev -> /dev/null problem, and i noticed that the load was pretty high due to cron daily overllaping
[09:11] <fabbione> elmo: it would also be very nice if you can give me a sparc pulse....
[09:11] <fabbione> (and sorry for 349394 REJECT mails.. there was a problem with a local disk and it was trying to upload & reupload all the packages for a few hours. fixed now)
[09:13] <elmo> meh, it's the silly cron.daily scripts getting entirely confused by the bazillion bind mounts
[09:13] <elmo> sparc pulsed
[09:13] <elmo> and don't worry, I don't get the REJECT mails directly, they queue locally on jackass, so it's no biggie
[09:13] <fabbione> elmo: ok.. you can just flush them
[09:24] <fabbione> ok guys...
[09:24] <fabbione> who has an amd64 and feels VERY lucky today???
[09:28] <jsgotangco> brb
[09:29] <Mithrandir> fabbione: hm?
[09:29] <fabbione> Mithrandir: people.u.c/~fabbione/
[09:29] <fabbione> Mithrandir: grab a kernel and let me know :)
[09:29] <Mithrandir> does it work on hoary?
[09:29] <fabbione> nope
[09:29] <fabbione> breezy only
[09:30] <Mithrandir> well, I don't have any amd64 breezy boxes yet.  Waiting for the smoke to rise first.
[09:31] <fabbione> Mithrandir: tsk... time to upgrade and test my kernel
[09:31] <fabbione> you have no excuses ;)
[09:31] <fabbione> well you can actually run that kernel, upgrading only 3 packages from breezy
[09:32] <fabbione> you don't need the full breezy
[09:34] <seb128> morning
[09:34] <Treenaks> hi seb
[09:35] <jdub> yo seb128 
[09:35] <seb128> hey hey jdub 
[09:37] <seb128> elmo: can you sync poppler from Debian please? And do you know if serpentine (new package) is somewhere, apparently I've not received a NEW mail
[09:40] <JaneW> elmo: ping 
[09:41] <elmo> seb128: done.  new where?  ubuntu or debian?
[09:41] <seb128> elmo: ubuntu
[09:41] <seb128> thanks
[09:41] <elmo> JaneW: ?
[09:43] <elmo> seb128: it's in NEW - you didn't get mail because you used seb128@d.o rather than @u.c
[09:43] <crimsun> elmo: please sync xmms from sid
[09:44] <seb128> elmo: oh, I thought than both were working ... thanks :)
[09:44] <elmo> seb128: I de-whitelisted all non-ubuntu addresses for employees a while ago, as mdz told us all to switch to u.c
[09:44] <elmo> crimsun: ubuntu changes ok to override?
[09:45] <seb128> k
[09:45] <crimsun> elmo: yes
[09:48] <elmo> crimsun: oh.  xmms is in main.  can you get a main uploader to ACK?  sorry to have to ask
[09:48] <crimsun> elmo: np, mvo's the last to resync with sid. Thanks.
[09:49] <jdub> can we shove xmms out of main?
[09:50] <elmo> jdub: any particular reason why?
[09:50] <seb128> why main has xmms to start with ? :)
[09:50] <Treenaks> elmo: mp3
[09:50] <elmo> because rhythmbox is the suck?
[09:50] <jdub> elmo: crackrock muck and inbuilt mp3 (yes, i actually still use xmms too)
[09:51] <jdub> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-output/breezy/rdepends/xmms/xmms-dev
[09:51] <jdub> ^ bong
[09:52] <Treenaks> flac build-deps on xmms?
[09:52] <Treenaks> WTF?
[09:52] <jdub> for the flac xmms module, i'd imagine
[09:52] <Treenaks> hm, good point
[09:53] <p0m> People use flac still?
[09:53] <Treenaks> p0m: in the form of oggflac, yes
[09:54] <p0m> Ohh.
[09:54] <p0m> Duh.
[10:17] <GheRivero> res
[10:21] <seb128> lamont: around?
[10:25] <Kamion> cc: it makes very little difference which the installer uses; the on-disk format is (I'm told) the same. The installer will use whatever set of tools makes it easiest to do stuff automatically, but that has very little bearing on whether they're generally suitable or not.
[10:25] <Kamion> cc: (of LVM2/EVMS)
[10:26] <Kamion> Mithrandir: the minimal seed was done by mdz and I sitting down in Sydney and going "need that", "don't need that", etc.
[10:26] <Kamion> Mithrandir: we tried to keep only stuff needed for the system to come up and install packages, plus a few things we couldn't quite bear to get rid of (wanted an editor, couldn't quite part with less, strace is "terribly useful", etc.)
[10:27] <cartman> morning
[10:27] <Kamion> Mithrandir: but there was lots of stuff from base that fell into the "comfortable Unix system" category, and we pushed that out to standard)
[10:27] <Kamion> -)
[10:30] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I would say stuff like memtest has nothing to do on a minimal system, but that might just be me.  I'll spend some time making a list of stuff I'd like to chuck out.
[10:31] <Mithrandir> Kamion: the idea is we want minimal to be as small as possible for HTPCs and such.
[10:31] <Nafallo> morning all
[10:33] <jsgotangco> Mithrandir, any nice UDU pics wif u?
[10:33] <jdub> Kamion: strace? pfft. ;-)
[10:35] <ogra> morning
[10:35] <jsgotangco> ogra, hey
[10:35] <Mithrandir> jsgotangco: in a little while, yes.
[10:35] <ogra> jdub, want to answer this ? http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2005-May/033833.html
[10:35] <Nafallo> jdub: not to me rushing you or anything, but when can we see the next ubuntu-calendar? :-)
[10:36] <jdub> ogra: thanks :)
[10:36] <jdub> Nafallo: soon, soon
[10:36] <jsgotangco> the fridge
[10:36] <jsgotangco> heh
[10:37] <ogra> :)
[10:37] <hunger> Anyone working on the udev bug that stops usb sticks to work?
[10:39] <mvo> crimsun: xmms needs to be merged by hand because it build-depends on "type-handling"
[10:39] <crimsun> mvo: danke
[10:39] <fabbione> mvo: is xmms in main?
[10:40] <crimsun> (yes, xmms is in main)
[10:40] <fabbione> yeah than it needs manual love
[10:40] <Treenaks> "manual love"
[10:41] <p0m> Treenaks: Copulation in the bitbucket?
[10:46] <Treenaks> ogra: for the sarge freeze?
[10:46] <ogra> Treenaks, nope, for seb128's new package of it
[10:46] <Treenaks> ogra: ah :)
[10:47] <Kamion> Mithrandir: memtest86+ is there because the installer adds a bootloader entry for it, and it's good for that to be there at the first boot.
[10:48] <Kamion> Mithrandir: but it's flexible - we were being fairly conservative at first and in cases of doubt we left stuff in base (renamed to minimal)
[10:53] <Kamion> mdz: please edit breezy.template as well as breezy when making debootstrap script changes, otherwise I'm liable to overwrite them at the next upload
[10:56] <seb128_> elmo: gnome-media sync with debian please
[10:57] <elmo> seb128: debian is << than us?  or do you mean experimental?
[10:58] <seb128_> experimental
[10:58] <Kamion> mdz: ('./required-base.py breezy' regenerates the script from the template)
[11:14] <GheRivero> res
[11:14] <jsgotangco> bye bye
[11:21] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I would go the other way -- minimal should really resemble debian's base, or even thinner, IMO.
[11:21] <Mithrandir> Kamion: if not, it'll be too big to be useful for buntu/mini-ubuntu
[11:23] <elmo> any sane base is going to be, surely?
[11:23] <elmo> if moobuntu is aimed at the embedded world you want more debian-installer minimalness than a "minimal" normal debian system
[11:25] <Kamion> Mithrandir: it was a start, mkay
[11:25] <Kamion> Mithrandir: and we already removed some stuff that's in Debian's base
[11:25] <Kamion> e.g. man-db (though I put up token resistance)
[11:25] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok. :)
[11:26] <Kamion> it's easier to remove stuff from Debian's base though 'cos they don't have the metapackage crack
[11:26] <Mithrandir> elmo: we thought a mini-ubuntu might be useful for small systems like home theatre boxes and such
[11:26] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I wasn't trying to pick on you, sorry.
[11:27] <Kamion> Mithrandir: just noting that what we have now is anything but final. :)
[11:27] <Mithrandir> Kamion: then I'm happy. :)
[11:27] <p0m> To be honest, I think Familiar and OpenEmbedded might be better than a ubuntu based system :)
[11:28] <Kamion> would be worthwhile somebody figuring out how to get libreadline4 out of minimal, btw (we have libreadline5)
[11:28] <Kamion> p0m: improving Ubuntu for those purposes and others is a continual goal, though ...
[11:28] <jdub> hey edd
[11:28] <Kamion> edd: try #launchpad?
[11:29] <p0m> Maybe you should talk to the familiar developers then, familiar is semi debian based.
[11:29] <Amaranth> Kamion: Good luck with that. It looks like Python, GNOME, and KDE all depend on it.
[11:29] <p0m> And they might be able to give you some good tips/guides.
[11:29] <Kamion> Amaranth: GNOME and KDE don't impact minimal
[11:29] <edd> Kamion: ah, thanks.
[11:29] <edd> jdub: hey dude
[11:29] <Amaranth> #launchpad? it's open source?
[11:29] <Kamion> no
[11:30] <Amaranth> I thought freenode didn't allow channels for things that weren't open source.
[11:30] <Kamion> not as far as I can tell from the network policy (http://freenode.net/policy.shtml)
[11:30] <Kamion> er, "not" = "I don't think that's true"
[11:30] <Amaranth> hmm
[11:30] <p0m> Launchpad isn't open source?
[11:31] <Kamion> "including those of free and open source software (FOSS)"
[11:31] <Amaranth> They might have changed it. I had a channel shutdown because it wasn't for open source stuff.
[11:31] <Kamion> p0m: no - personally I hope it will be one day, but at the moment the code isn't distributed
[11:32] <Amaranth> #launchpad might fit in as corporate
[11:32] <p0m> Kamion: Fair enough/
[11:32] <Amaranth> "Corporate.  Contact channels for registered corporate or business entities or consortia with an interest in our target communities are considered to be on-topic."
[11:33] <Kamion> pitti: the security advisory format for warty+hoary advisories is a bit odd. Could there be some indication of which archive URLs are for warty and which for hoary?
[11:33] <pitti> Kamion: yeah, I can ceartainly add that
[11:33] <pitti> elmo: ^  is it possible to integrate that into the templates?
[11:34] <Kamion> pitti: it works well for single-suite advisories, but maybe "Source archives (Ubuntu 4.10)" or something would work
[11:34] <elmo> pitti: adapt one of the existing advisories as to how you think it should look, and send it to me and I'll fix amber
[11:40] <mvirkkil> Is there any way to check if doing a fopen on a fifo would block? (ie, can you check if someone is trying to open the other end)
[11:40] <Mithrandir> it wouldn't block until you tried to read, would it?
[11:42] <Kamion> coo, breezy is debootstrappable now, I didn't actually check last night. excellent.
[11:42] <Kamion> 180508  /chroot/breezy
[11:42] <mvirkkil> Mithrandir: It would.
[11:42] <mvirkkil> But I figured it out. Doing a non-blocking open and then a fdopen will work.
[11:43] <Kamion> so bigger than Debian but not quite so outrageously much bigger as it used to be
[11:46] <Kamion> jdub: http://lists.debian.org/debian-release/2005/05/msg00118.html # ?
[11:51] <jdub> Kamion: sjoerd (new maintainer) knows about our patches - his call
[11:53] <Kamion> jdub: oh, I thought you were still maintainer
[11:53] <seb128> Kamion, jdub: the version waiting in Debian/NEW has the hoary patch but we according to the discussion on #gnome-debian we don't need gamin for sarge
[11:53] <Kamion> so does the BTS, for that matter :)
[11:53] <seb128> nothing uses it atm and that's not tested on Debian
[11:54] <Kamion> ok, thanks
[11:54] <seb128> np
[11:54] <jdub> seb128: why hasn't sjoerd changed the maintainer yet? :)
[11:55] <seb128> I think he has, but as said the package is NEW
[11:55] <seb128> due to the python bindings I think
[11:57] <Kamion> scheduled for removal
[11:57] <seb128> jdub: any objection to have only evolution 2.3 for breezy? I'm thinking about make different packages like the Debian maintainer does, or keeping one package ... I think than I prefer the second option, but opinions are welcome 
[12:01] <pitti> seb128: as long as the data format stays compatible, supporting only one version is definitively preferrable
[12:01] <seb128> pitti: right, I think that too, thanks :)
[12:02] <astharot> ciao
[12:02] <jdub> seb128: if we have two versions, no one will test the development version :-)
[12:03] <pitti> Hey astharot 
[12:03] <astharot> hi Martin
[12:03] <seb128> jdub: right, let's get some fun :)
[12:03] <astharot> I just sent what you requested yesterday :)
[12:03] <pitti> neat
[12:04] <pitti> astharot: will take a look at it ASAP, but I still have a psql security update which will keep me busy for some hours
[12:04] <astharot> ok, there are other pending patches
[12:04] <astharot> for main
[12:07] <Kamion> 236352  /chroot/hoary-base
[12:08] <Kamion> so minimal has saved 56MB, which is a start; could go further
[12:27] <jdub> fabbione: around?
[12:34] <Kamion> mdz: meh - can we remove reiser4progs from minimal? given that our kernel doesn't support it, I think we should kick it out as far as supported at least
[12:36] <elmo> I don't think we should even support it, TBH
[12:37] <jdub> *cough* universe *cough*
[12:37] <ogra> hrm
[12:37] <trukulo> has sense
[12:43] <Kamion> elmo: tend to agree, hence "at least"
[12:44] <Kamion> wonder how it snuck in there; I think it dates back to London
[12:48] <fabbione> jdub: yes
[12:51] <jdub> fabbione: have you looked at the fedora core kernels to see what they do about the SATA/PATA mess?
[12:51] <jdub> fabbione: just hearing that they work fine
[12:51] <fabbione> jdub: so does our kernel...
[12:52] <fabbione> we fixed that problem a long while ago
[12:52] <jdub> fabbione: http://www.gnome.org/~gman/blog/04052005
[12:54] <fabbione> jdub: ahha that's the same problem i fixed for benno at the university
[12:54] <fabbione> he had a gx280
[12:54] <fabbione> it's the bios setting...
[12:54] <jdub> i'm told that fedora does not require the PATA compat BIOS setting change
[12:54] <Robot101> heh
[12:54] <fabbione> jdub: that's SATA
[12:55] <Robot101> took me a while to realise he was talking about solaris :)
[12:55] <jdub> fabbione: SATA with PATA compat
[12:55] <jdub> regardless of what you call it, fedora doesn't require the BIOS change
[12:56] <fabbione> jdub: ENOTENOUGHRESOURCES to track fedora too
[12:58] <jdub> hrm
[01:05] <fabbione> also... fedora is running 2.6.11.something
[01:05] <fabbione> that might have been fixed upstream...
[01:49] <jiyuu0> i've done this "sudo update-rc.d nessusd defaults", but on the next reboot... nessusd doesn't start unless manully start it... any idea how to make it auto start?
[01:50] <Treenaks> jiyuu0: read /etc/defaults/nessusd? maybe you need to config it?
[01:56] <ogra> bah, breezy update takesalready 444 packages
[01:56] <tseng> Amaranth: its a bit more than that
[02:06] <jiyuu0> Treenaks, nessud is not in /etc/rc3.d
[02:06] <jiyuu0> is that the prob?
[02:06] <ogra> nope
[02:06] <ogra> rather look in rc2.d ;)
[02:06] <Treenaks> jiyuu0: that's not what I said.
[02:06] <jiyuu0> Treenaks, /etc/defaults/nessusd looks normal
[02:06] <jiyuu0> ogra, ok... i'll check that out
[02:07] <ogra> update-rc.d is not a adimnistartors tool...
[02:07] <Amaranth> tseng: ?
[02:09] <jiyuu0> ogra, it's also not in rc2.d 
[02:09] <ogra> probably it gets started by inetd ? dunno
[02:11] <tseng> Amaranth: libgda
[02:11] <Amaranth> tseng: yeah, that was just fron a user POV
[02:12] <Amaranth> iirc libgnomedb is the one that needs updated for the rest of the stuff to stay, at least on my machine
[02:13] <tseng> I guess
[02:13] <tseng> gtk-sharp* too
[02:20] <Alessio> next community council?
[02:20] <Alessio> any suggesting date?
[02:21] <astharot> ciao
[02:28] <AndyFitz> Alessio,  the 8th ?
[02:37] <Alessio> where is this date?
[02:41] <AndyFitz> that was a suggestion
[02:41] <AndyFitz> :)  I don't know when the next meeting date is
[02:42] <ogra> i'd guess the 11th since that would be the normal 2 week schedule (one left out because UdU)
[02:54] <zul> hey
[03:04] <Amaranth> how can something that ubuntu-desktop depends on be in universe?
[03:04] <pitti> it can't
[03:04] <ogra> it cant...
[03:04] <ogra> hey pitti
[03:04] <Amaranth> oh, the new version is in universe
[03:04] <Nafallo> Amaranth: what package?
[03:04] <pitti> Hey ogra
[03:04] <Amaranth> python2.4-gnome2-extras
[03:05] <ogra> mihght be caused by the autoimport...
[03:06] <Amaranth> yeah
[03:06] <Amaranth> well, it says seb128 is the maintainer but that probably means he put it in sid :)
[03:07] <ogra> he maintains both afaik....just hasnt touched the ubuntu package yet i guess
[03:07] <seb128> Amaranth: I don't understand your issue
[03:07] <seb128> what wrong?
[03:08] <Kamion> Amaranth: universe->main propagation is only semi-automatic, not fully automatic
[03:09] <Amaranth> seb128: nothing :)
[03:09] <seb128> Amaranth: grrrrr
[03:09] <Amaranth> hey, while you're around... :)
[03:09] <seb128> Amaranth: if you have something to say, say it, doesn't start speaking about an issue on a package to say nothing
[03:09] <Amaranth> could you look into a pyxdg 0.10 package
[03:09] <seb128> no
[03:09] <seb128> what about python-gnome2 ?
[03:10] <Amaranth> just saying it's in universe and ubuntu-desktop depends on it
[03:10] <seb128> breezy?
[03:10] <SlackShrike> hi
[03:10] <Amaranth> yeah
[03:10] <Amaranth> Kamion already explained why
[03:10] <Kamion> Amaranth: that can happen transiently. don't worry about it, it'll get fixed up.
[03:10] <seb128> no need to start to point every change for breezy
[03:11] <SlackShrike> i am installing  breezy now !
[03:11] <Kamion> SlackShrike: I imagine you're upgrading, not installing
[03:12] <JaneW> any idea why I can not hear sounds on my Ubuntu installation, apart from event beeps etc...
[03:12] <SlackShrike> Yes
[03:12] <SlackShrike> I am upgrading
[03:12] <JaneW> web sites with sound, and audio files = no sound
[03:12] <SlackShrike> I am lick build a cd-install with the breezy packages
[03:12] <JaneW> I checked volume control and it's pretty much maxed out
[03:13] <ogra> any errormeaages ? 
[03:13] <ogra> messages even
[03:13] <Kamion> SlackShrike: don't bother, it won't work yet
[03:13] <mvo> Kamion: do you use the "--allow-unauthenticated" switch in aptitude in the installer?
[03:14] <JaneW> ogra: no there's nothing, except silence ;)
[03:14] <Kamion> mvo: no, I use the -o APT::whatever
[03:14] <Kamion> mvo: actually, no, not to aptitude
[03:15] <JaneW> Ogra: I tried loading the badger song as a test, I had to install flash 7, which I did, and it;s playing now, the visuals are fine but it's silent.
[03:15] <mvo> Kamion: ok, thanks (I'm merging the aptitude code with our patches right now)
[03:15] <Treenaks> JaneW: it's a bit of a hack, but killing esd fixes flash for me
[03:15] <Kamion> mvo: (I prefer -o because that's more tolerant of old versions of apt)
[03:17] <JaneW> Treenaks: I am a bit of a newbie on Ubuntu , should wma sound files be able to play?
[03:17] <ogra> JaneW, ah, ok.... Treenaks is right, if you installed flash for macromedia it wont work while esd is running, our flashplayer in multiverse is fixed afaik, but not version 7
[03:17] <JaneW> hmmm..
[03:17] <ogra> JaneW, nope, you'll need the microsoft codec for that....
[03:17] <JaneW> ok, I did try to play a wma file earlier before the flash installation (but that may be windows specific?)
[03:17] <JaneW> oic, ok
[03:17] <Treenaks> JaneW: wma sound should be able to play if you follow the RestrictedFormats page from the wiki
[03:18] <JaneW> *nod*
[03:18] <Treenaks> JaneW: +instructions on the 
[03:18] <JaneW> should I use the multiverse flash player then?
[03:18] <ogra> JaneW, w32codecs is what youre looking for
[03:18] <JaneW> or fiddle with esd?
[03:18] <ogra> yep
[03:18] <ogra> one of these, your choice
[03:18] <JaneW> ogra: which is easier ;)
[03:19] <ogra> using multiverse is "cleaner" :)
[03:20] <Nafallo> I can't even see flash, gladly ;-)
[03:20] <JaneW> ogra clean sounds good, thanks.
[03:21] <Nafallo> if people tell me to install I it, I just have to tell them to tell Macromedia to let me ;-)
[03:21] <ogra> Nafallo, amd64 ?
[03:21] <Nafallo> ogra: oui :-)
[03:21] <ogra> heh, same here
[03:21] <ogra> no badger song for me.... :(
[03:22] <Nafallo> hehe
[03:22] <ogra> but 2 mins to breezy....
[03:22] <JaneW> ogra: should I select the mozilla plugin - since I intend it to run in firefox?
[03:23] <ogra> JaneW, yep....its just a generic name.... 
[03:23] <Nafallo> ogra: huh? "but 2 mins to breezy"?
[03:23] <ogra> Nafallo, upgrading
[03:23] <Treenaks> -f
[03:23] <Treenaks> ogra: tell me if/when it works ;)
[03:23] <Nafallo> ogra: ahh :-)
[03:24] <Nafallo> I down-graded to hoary again since my flash-drive and usbkey didn't automount ;-).
[03:24] <pitti> Nafallo: oh, same for me :-/
[03:24] <Nafallo> ubuntu have made me lazy :-P
[03:24] <Nafallo> from debian/fluxbox to this ;-)
[03:25] <pitti> Nafallo: no worries, we will update the complete Utopia stack soon (and the kernel), after that we can make it work again :)
[03:25] <Nafallo> pitti: I know. I'm holding of to the 2.6.12 hits the archive now. that will stop me from having to compile my wlandriver from cvs ;-)
[03:26] <ogra> gah, lots of locale errors
[03:26] <Nafallo> hmm, I hold of a bit longer probably ;-)
[03:27] <JaneW> ogra: ok I installed, biut now I have to get rid of flash 7 (I think)
[03:27] <ogra> JaneW, depending on how you installed the plugin you have to delete it in the right plugin directory...
[03:28] <ogra> (with or without sudo/root)
[03:28] <JaneW> erk.
[03:28] <pitti> Riddell: will you fix the kdewebdev vuln in Breezy, too?
[03:34] <Riddell> pitti: good point, will do
[03:34] <stockhol1> mdz: ?
[03:34] <pitti> Riddell: thanks
[03:34] <stockhol1> can anyone help me with edubuntu?
[03:35] <stockhol1> is anyone here working on edubuntu?
[03:35] <stockhol1> is there a special mailinglist or so?
[03:36] <Nafallo> hmm, debootstrap needs sudo, or will fakeroot suffice?
[03:36] <stockhol1> Nafallo: i dont think fakeroot cuts it
[03:36] <stockhol1> Nafallo: it needs to chroot, which fakeroot cant do
[03:37] <Nafallo> stockhol1: right. just got the error :-)
[03:42] <zul> Nafallo: which wlamdriver?
[03:43] <Nafallo> zul: rt2500 :-)
[03:43] <zul> ah..
[03:43] <zul> ok
[03:44] <Nafallo> zul: you don't happen to know if it's the rewrite or the branched ralink driver that's in there?
[03:44] <zul> Nafallo: its the one from sourceforge the gpl one
[03:45] <Nafallo> zul: yepp, that project has two versions. the rewrite will be better, but I don't know in what state it is atm. haven't tried it myself yet...
[03:46] <zul> Nafallo: well when 2.6.12 for breezy is released you will get to try it out ;)
[03:46] <Nafallo> zul: I know. I follow my mirrorlogs closely ;-).
[03:46] <Nafallo> zul: I guess it's the rewrite then :-)
[04:01] <ogra> fabbione, 2.6.12 boots fine here....
[04:01] <ogra> fabbione, (amd64 on breezy)
[04:38] <SlackShrike> how the casper work. sorry, i not speak english very well.
[04:40] <seb128> pitti, carlos: what is the standard way to get something translated/using rosetta? ie: ubuntu-artwork
[04:41] <carlos> seb128: if it has a .pot file inside, you don't need to do anything
[04:41] <seb128> no there is no
[04:41] <carlos> seb128: put it into the archive and it will be imported into Rosetta
[04:41] <carlos> seb128: then you need to create it on build time
[04:41] <seb128> k
[04:43] <carlos> seb128: and name the .po files as LOCALE.po (es.po, fr.po, pt_BR.po) instead of using WHATEVER-LOCALE.po like ubuntu-artwork-es.po
[04:45] <seb128> there is some apps doing that ?
[04:46] <seb128> all the I was going to do fr.po as usual for GNOME stuff
[04:46] <carlos> seb128: ubuntu-docs was doing it
[04:46] <carlos> seb128: ok, perfect
[04:47] <seb128> carlos: k
[04:50] <pitti> Hey dilinger 
[04:50] <dilinger> pitti: good morning.  how's it going?
[04:51] <pitti> dilinger: fine, I'm catching up
[04:51] <ogra> hmm, my console keymap in breezy seems broken....
[04:51] <pitti> ogra: yeah, infinity is going to fix that
[04:51] <ogra> ah, fine
[04:52] <ogra> i can reconfigure it though... it works until next reboot
[04:55] <cartman> ogra: keymap thing is https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10063 btw
[04:57] <ogra> cartman, thanks
[04:57] <cartman> np
[05:15] <seb128> lamont: around?
[05:19] <lamont> seb128: yo
[05:21] <zyga> which package could contain update-mozilla-chrome?
[05:21] <seb128> lamont: can you kick the gtkspell build? it ftbfs according to the build-log, and you have open #9998 , but it builds fine with pbuilder here !?
[05:21] <zyga> I'm trying to remove locale stuff I've installed some time ago but uninstallation script ivoked by dpkg fails on this, missing, program
[05:21] <seb128> zyga: #ubuntu question
[05:21] <zyga> seb128: right
[05:22] <seb128> and that's mozilla-browser
[05:22] <zyga> hmm that smells like a bug to me :-)
[05:22] <zyga> anyway thanks
[05:22] <seb128> np
[05:24] <stockhol1> is anyone here working on edubuntu?
[05:24] <lamont> seb128: is g++?
[05:25] <seb128> lamont: no, is aspell weird error
[05:25] <seb128> "checking for new_aspell_speller in -laspell... no
[05:25] <seb128> checking for new_pspell_manager in -lpspell... no
[05:25] <seb128> configure: error: You must have the aspell or pspell dev libraries to build
[05:25] <seb128> gtkspell."
[05:25] <seb128> 
[05:25] <seb128> but the same package builds fine on debian and on my hoary pbuilder ...
[05:26] <lamont> seb128: let me kick it once for giggles, and then I'll look at it if it fails again
[05:26] <seb128> on #9998 you wrote "aspell-bin is not in the build-dep list.", but I don't think it's needed, my pbuilder builds the package fine without it
[05:26] <seb128> k, thanks
[05:26] <seb128> and same gnome-spell if you can kick this one too
[05:29] <stockhol1> does anyone know the nicks of the people working on debian-edu, so i can /notify myself when they come online?
[05:29] <stockhol1> bah
[05:29] <stockhol1> does anyone know the nicks of the people working on edubuntu, so i can /notify myself when they come online?
[05:30] <Mithrandir> stockhol1: you might want to look at the list of participants on the edubuntu spec.
[05:31] <Kamion> (http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu)
[05:31] <Kamion> I don't know if either Jeff Elkner or Colin Applegate IRC, though.
[05:32] <Kamion> I think Matt was largely there as facilitator/liaison, but I could be wrong
[05:35] <stockhol1> i mailed the people in question allready about cooperation and got mails in reply, but now it has been a long time (6 days) without answers 
[05:36] <stockhol1> so i was trying to escalate to irc.
[05:37] <Kamion> for several of those days those people would have been busy at the conference, then on plane flights, then jetlagged
[05:37] <stockhol1> yes.
[05:37] <Kamion> if they're anything like me they're still catching up
[05:37] <stockhol1> lol
[05:37] <stockhol1> mjg59 is half dead, still. 
[05:37] <stockhol1> right.
[05:37] <Lathiat> poor matthew
[05:38] <stockhol1> mako went to bed with wisky.
[05:38] <stockhol1> so it must be bad
[05:39] <stockhol1> Kamion: what do you think, when will people be half-alive again? (c:
[05:39] <stockhol1> these are the people on the cc: 
[05:39] <stockhol1> Cc: Kevin Cole <kjcole@gri.gallaudet.edu>, Eric Howard <ehoward@fissg.com>,
[05:39] <stockhol1>         Paul Flint <flint@flint.com>, Colin Applegate <colin.a@gmail.com>,
[05:39] <Kamion> stockhol1: I don't know their schedules - was just keeping you informed in case you didn't know they had been travelling
[05:39] <stockhol1>         Colin McDermott <colmcd@optusnet.com.au>,
[05:39] <stockhol1>         Colin Charles <byte@aeon.com.my>
[05:39] <stockhol1> anone of these online?
[05:40] <Kamion> stockhol1: Colin Charles was very likely just editing that specification
[05:40] <Kamion> since he was one of the people editing *all* the specifications
[05:40] <Kamion> I have no idea about the others
[05:40] <stockhol1> ok
[05:40] <stockhol1> thanks
[05:40] <Kamion> I only met two of those people knowingly, and one of those only in passing
[05:41] <Kamion> (the ones other than cc, that is)
[05:42] <Mithrandir> stockhol1: just wait a few days and see if they answer your mails; they are, as Kamion says, most likely jetlagged and overworked ATM.  Connectivity wasn't too good at the conf.
[05:42] <stockhol1> sure.
[05:47] <seb128> lamont: gtkspell builds fine now, can you kick gnome-spell too ?
[05:51] <stockhol1> a general question regarding the config file handling of preconfigured systems (like edubuntu most likely will be): are you guys working on integrating better local configuration management like multilevel configuration or configfile rewriting/parsing for some key applications?
[05:54] <Kamion> stockhol1: I'm not aware of any work on that in Ubuntu in general; dunno about Edubuntu
[05:56] <lamont> seb128: done.
[05:56] <lamont> firecall
[05:56] <fabbione> there...
[05:56] <fabbione> lamont: later...
[05:57] <Nafallo> pitti: postgresql updated fine, but I was waiting for a the "Starting PostgreSQL" line :-)
[05:57] <Nafallo> s/the//
[05:58] <pitti> Nafallo: right, I recently got a Debian bug about that
[05:58] <pitti> Nafallo: however, it should have started up fine, did it?
[05:58] <fabbione> Kamion, pitti: ppc question:
[05:59] <Nafallo> pitti: it did. I supplied status to the init-script to be sure :-).
[05:59] <fabbione> *** Warning: "isa_memcpy_fromio" [drivers/net/hp100.ko]  undefined!
[05:59] <fabbione> this is building ppc kernels....
[05:59] <fabbione> now.. does ppc have anything related to isa?
[05:59] <Kamion> no
[05:59] <pitti> not my iBook at least
[05:59] <fabbione> ook... another question:
[05:59] <Kamion> not 100% sure about some of the IBM kit, but I doubt it
[06:00] <Mithrandir> Kamion: the IBM PPCs I've seen at least have all been PCI-only.
[06:00] <Kamion> that or MCA
[06:00] <Kamion> (for the older ones)
[06:00] <fabbione> hp100, com90xx and arc-rimi are somekind of net card available on any ppc?
[06:00] <Mithrandir> well, yeah.
[06:00] <Kamion> fabbione: I wouldn't be prepared to venture an opinion on any of those
[06:01] <Kamion> hp100 is a PCI card, so you could fit it to a powerpc system
[06:01] <fabbione> Kamion: we actually build them.. but they can't load.. i am trying to figure out if they are broken or we can safely remove them :)
[06:03] <fabbione> but i don't believe they are the only drivers that use those functions...
[06:03] <fabbione> it's probably easier to find the missing include
[06:03] <Kamion> isa_memcpy_fromio and friends are not defined in asm-ppc
[06:03] <Kamion> they are available in asm-{alpha,arm,i386,mips,parisc,sh,x86_64} here
[06:04] <fabbione> that's what i am checking....
[06:05] <fabbione> Kamion: the drivers are broken.. very easy fix anyway
[06:05] <fabbione> they just renamed the function...
[06:05] <fabbione> i can either add the define or fix the driver (better)
[06:16] <Kamion> elmo: is ports.ubuntu.com deliberately missing the source? it would make germinate's life easier if the source were accessible in the usual place there, if possible ...
[06:20] <fabbione> there... fixed...
[06:21] <Kamion> fabbione: I think fixing the driver is definitely better, yeah
[06:22] <fabbione> Kamion: i am not 100% sure...
[06:22] <fabbione> there is a specific reason why that stuff is defined the way it is
[06:22] <Kamion> isa_* doesn't make sense on all architectures
[06:22] <fabbione> but ppc has all the bits required to create the definitions
[06:22] <fabbione> except that it's missing them
[06:22] <fabbione> Kamion: i fully agree...
[06:23] <fabbione> check for ex asm-i386/io.h
[06:23] <fabbione> #define __ISA_IO_base ((char __iomem *)(PAGE_OFFSET))
[06:23] <fabbione> bofh __iomem and PAGE_OFFSET exists on ppc
[06:24] <fabbione> and as a consequence you can see that the following isa_ definitions are extremely simple..
[06:24] <fabbione> probably the name space is wrong....
[06:27] <fabbione> in both cases, nobody has been complaining about these missing drivers.....
[06:31] <fabbione> this kernel is going to rock hard...
[06:31] <fabbione> modulo OOPS
[06:31] <fabbione> and crashes
[06:31] <fabbione> :P
[06:31] <Nafallo> hehe
[06:31] <GheRivero> res
[06:31] <Kamion> "rocking, except when it sucks"
[06:32] <Nafallo> don't forget wlan drivers that can't do managed stuff ;-)
[06:32] <fabbione> Nafallo: if you are talking about hostap is already in
[06:32] <fabbione> atm there are only 2 OOPS'es we are aware of...
[06:32] <fabbione> nothing too fancy
[06:32] <Nafallo> fabbione: rt2500 experimental seems to lack the code for managed mode.
[06:33] <fabbione> Nafallo: well... that's not my problem.. we imported the driver.. upstream will have to take care of the rest
[06:33] <Nafallo> fabbione: hopefully it will be their in time for release :-)
[06:33] <Nafallo> fabbione: yea, I know :-). just added a "sucking" reason ;-)
[06:33] <fabbione> also because all these neat external drivers will land in non-supported-external-modules.deb
[06:34] <fabbione> so basically.. we will ship them to make users happy
[06:34] <fabbione> but it will a ENOCARE line :)
[06:34] <Lathiat> fabbione, all in one deb or separate debs?
[06:34] <Lathiat> heh
[06:34] <fabbione> Lathiat: all in one deb
[06:34] <fabbione> i am not going to create a million debs
[06:34] <Lathiat> right. :)
[06:34] <fabbione> otherwise i could split each single module in one deb
[06:35] <fabbione> and let somebody figure out the dependencies
[06:35] <fabbione> :)
[06:35] <Lathiat> heh
[06:35] <Nafallo> lol
[06:37] <sjmorgan> should i be worried that running "free -m" in a terminal on my machine says it's using 268MB -/+ buffers/cache? (this is without X running)
[06:37] <fabbione> sjmorgan: no
[06:38] <fabbione> not at alll
[06:38] <Lathiat> someone needs to write a memory usage program that takes real usage
[06:38] <Lathiat> and then divides it by 10
[06:38] <Kamion> caching is good
[06:38] <sjmorgan> can you explain why it'd use or at least say it's using so much?
[06:38] <Lathiat> so peope stop warrying
[06:38] <Kamion> sjmorgan: there's no point having memory unused. it might as well be used to cache stuff.
[06:38] <sjmorgan> my friend is running hoary and his says its using 70meg even with gdm running
[06:39] <clee> so, launchd.
[06:39] <fabbione> sjmorgan: if that value is higher, it is better
[06:39] <sjmorgan> he's using hoary
[06:39] <sjmorgan> why is mine caching so much?
[06:39] <Kamion> the cached stuff will be thrown out if anything actually needs it
[06:39] <clee> have you guys looked at it yet?
[06:39] <Nafallo> sjmorgan: does your friend count cache in?
[06:39] <sjmorgan> yeah
[06:39] <Kamion> sjmorgan: because caching is *good*
[06:39] <sjmorgan> i ran free -m on his machine
[06:39] <Kamion> it improves performance because you don't have to go to disk
[06:39] <sjmorgan> i don't understand though, we have the same kernels
[06:39] <Nafallo> sjmorgan: bad for him then :-)
[06:39] <Kamion> sjmorgan: depends what the machine's been doing. don't worry about it.
[06:39] <fabbione> sjmorgan: also the same amount of ram? do you also run exactly the same applications in the same order, loading the same data?
[06:40] <sjmorgan> ok cool, thanks for clearing it up. i was worried there was a memory leak or something.
[06:40] <fabbione> sjmorgan: trust us.. if that value is high, it is only good :)
[06:40] <sjmorgan> fabbione: he has 512, i have a gig
[06:40] <fabbione> so you can cache more
[06:40] <fabbione> he can't
[06:40] <sjmorgan> and they were both booted today and havent been doing anything really
[06:40] <Kamion> memory leaks would show up in other columns, not buffers/cache
[06:40] <fabbione> it doesn't matter
[06:40] <sjmorgan> actually they've probably had exactly the same load
[06:41] <fabbione> even running cron.daily in background would change that value
[06:41] <fabbione> sjmorgan: not after a cron.daily
[06:41] <sjmorgan> i thought maybe the leak might be in the kernel or something
[06:41] <Kamion> this is a FAQ
[06:41] <Kamion> http://info-x.co.uk/docview.asp?id=117
[06:42] <Kamion> (just the first hit for "buffers/cache linux", there are probably better explanations)
[06:42] <sjmorgan> cool thanks
[06:43] <Kamion> http://alphalinux.org/archives/axp-list/February2000/0307.shtml <- short-'n'-sweet explanation
[06:43] <Nafallo> hmm, now when we're talking about cache... can we please have an easy way for setting up the READAHEAD variabel in /usr/sbin/laptop-mode? :-)
[06:43] <elmo> Kamion: meh, I guess.  i was trying to avoid the duplicate 20Gb
[06:44] <Kamion> elmo: oh, it's a different box?
[06:45] <stockhol1> is there a breezy release goal overview, btw?
[06:46] <elmo> Kamion: yes, at the moment, and even if it wasn't, it's implemented super-naievely (i.e. --include/--exclude rsync), so the two trees wouldn't automatically share source
[06:47] <elmo> so I'd have to dsync after each pulse or something
[06:48] <elmo> hmm, and I never did get dsync working with post-bo g++
[06:48] <Nafallo> well, I have to switch nic in my server/router/firewall/everything. brb (hopefully).
[06:53] <fabbione> Kamion: but do you need all the orig.tar.gz or just the Source.gz files?
[06:53] <fabbione> i don't really see why we need all the sources on ports...
[06:57] <`anthony> So I've bitten the bullet and switched the laptop to Ubuntu. Do you guys want bug reports for stuff that's not working (that was working in Fedora) ?
[06:58] <ogra> `anthony, nah, these are likely user errors ;)
[06:58] <elmo> `anthony: sure
[06:58] <ogra> `anthony, so you use gnome now ?
[06:58] <`anthony> ogra: so exactly how does user error make /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/ not be there?
[06:59] <`anthony> ogra: Only until kubuntu-desktop finishes downloading.
[06:59] <mjg59> `anthony: Is it a Pentium 4?
[06:59] <`anthony> mjg59: P4M
[06:59] <ogra> `anthony, you know i'm kidding :)
[06:59] <mjg59> `anthony: Are you really sure it's a P4M, not a desktop P4?
[06:59] <`anthony> Yep
[07:00] <mjg59> Ok. Try doing sudo modprobe speedstep-centrino and see what output you get.
[07:00] <`anthony> model name      : Mobile Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4     CPU 3.06GHz
[07:00] <`anthony> no such device
[07:00] <`anthony> it's a different beast to the pentium-M
[07:01] <mjg59> Yes, but P4Ms use speedstep-centrino anyway (IIRC)
[07:01] <mjg59> What output does dmesg have?
[07:02] <`anthony> CPU: Intel Mobile Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4     CPU 3.06GHz stepping 09
[07:02] <mjg59> `anthony: When you load speedstep-centrino?
[07:03] <`anthony> nada
[07:03] <`anthony> FATAL: Error inserting speedstep_centrino (/lib/modules/2.6.10-5-386/kernel/arch/i386/kernel/cpu/cpufreq/speedstep-centrino.ko): No such device -- is what the shell sez.
[07:03] <mjg59> Ok. Sounds oddly like your processor doesn't have frequency scaling, which is odd
[07:03] <mjg59> Fedora was probably using p4-clockmod
[07:04] <`anthony> It definitely does - worked on Fedora. It's kinda necessary, because at full power this CPU drains the battery in about 1h15m ;)
[07:04] <mjg59> Are you sure it wasn't using p4-clockmod on Fedora?
[07:05] <`anthony> dunno. is that a kernel module, or a patch?
[07:05] <jbailey> infinity: There?
[07:05] <jbailey> doko: ping?
[07:05] <mjg59> It's a kernel module
[07:05] <mjg59> It allows throttling, but doesn't alter the core voltage
[07:05] <mjg59> It's not enabled by default because it has really poor performance characteristics on a lot of hardware
[07:06] <Kamion> fabbione: just the Sources I guess
[07:06] <`anthony> mjg59: Well, the module's definitely there.
[07:06] <`anthony> (I've still got the FC install sitting on disk)
[07:07] <Kamion> stockhol1: we've got a load of stuff written down, but we haven't had the kickoff meeting to decide exactly what's going to end up as goals yet; that's early next week
[07:07] <mjg59> `anthony: Ok. My suspicion is that Fedora was using p4-clockmod and (for some reason) your chip doesn't do proper frequency scaling
[07:07] <mjg59> What make of laptop is this?
[07:07] <`anthony> Dell Inspiron 5150
[07:07] <mjg59> Weird
[07:08] <mjg59> If it supports frequency scaling, speedstep-centrino should load
[07:09] <`anthony> submitted hardware db as e9247dd452b15d6d04aab7366aa5fc80
[07:11] <Kamion> 18:09 < joeyh> actually, the syslinux is experimental will probably change all this for x86
[07:11] <Kamion> 18:10 < joeyh> it has a widget toolkit, so we can present a menu of 2.4, 2.6, with buttons for rescue mode, expert mode
[07:11] <Kamion> 18:10 < joeyh> check boxes for framebuffer disable, etc
[07:11] <Kamion> 18:10  * joeyh is quite looking forward to it
[07:12] <Kamion> ooh
[07:12] <Kamion> mdz: who needs gfxboot, eh?
[07:12] <`anthony> mjg59: Well, I'm happy to help make it work. 
[07:13] <doko> jbailey: pong
[07:15] <fabbione> hey jbailey 
[07:15] <stockhol1> Kamion: ok, thx
[07:15] <stockhol1> jbailey: you live!
[07:15] <fabbione> jbailey: confirmed that devicemap changes did unbreak also lvm :)
[07:15] <Mithrandir>  Kamion shiny!
[07:19] <Nafallo> damn I love hoary :-)
[07:19] <Nafallo> best server I've even had :-)
[07:19] <Nafallo> hi again btw
[07:22] <hunger> fabbione: Any news on the udev issue yet?
[07:22] <hunger> fabbione: I attached straces, env and commandline info from my system to the bugreport this morning.
[07:24] <fabbione> hunger: i am not handling that bug.
[07:24] <hunger> fabbione: I couldn't make sense of it... but I am sure you got someone better at udev then me;-)
[07:24] <fabbione> and i didn't check the status
[07:24] <fabbione> hunger: the person to ask is probably pitti
[07:24] <hunger> fabbione: You made the mistake of replying to me yesterday;-)
[07:25] <pitti> hunger: whassup?
[07:25] <hunger> pitti: fabbione said I should bug you about that udev bug;-)
[07:25] <pitti> hunger: udev works fine for me
[07:25] <fabbione> pitti: in breezy?
[07:25] <pitti> hunger: your USB devices don't work in breezy?
[07:25] <hunger> pitti: Nope.
[07:26] <pitti> hunger: yeah, tha's a hotplug bug
[07:26] <hunger> pitti: They did work in hoary.
[07:26] <pitti> hunger: right, that's why it is a stable release :-)
[07:26] <pitti> hunger: hotplug is broken for me too
[07:26] <fabbione> ah
[07:26] <pitti> hunger: we'll sort that out in the next time
[07:26] <fabbione> hunger: what was the bugnumber?
[07:27] <fabbione> pitti: we might want to reassing it, if you know what the problem is
[07:27] <hunger> pitti: Yes I know. But I got bored on hoary:-)
[07:27] <pitti> fabbione: hotplug does not load sg or sd_mod
[07:27] <pitti> fabbione: but I didn't yet figure out why
[07:27] <fabbione> pitti: ah ok
[07:27] <pitti> fabbione: I did not debug this, just noticed that my device worked as soon as I typed modprobe sd_mod
[07:28] <fabbione> pitti: ok...
[07:28] <fabbione> i think i did the hotplug merge...
[07:28] <fabbione> i really can't remember...
[07:29] <pitti> fabbione: hehe, you broke it :-)
[07:29] <hunger> pitti: I added lots of strace info to bug#9913
[07:29] <pitti> fabbione: no worries, let the Breezy users suffer for a while :-)
[07:29] <hunger> pitti: I should have thought of sd_mod myself:-(
[07:30] <fabbione> pitti: i want to have a working userland before uploading a new kernel
[07:30] <fabbione> i actually did the merge....
[07:30] <fabbione> well i guess i will have to debug it on monday
[07:30] <jon1012> hello :)
[07:31] <fabbione> pitti: if you get a flash and want to fix it.. go ahead :)
[07:31] <jon1012> a developer interested in doing an ubuntu package for my app, appliworks ?
[07:31] <jon1012> (http://appliworks.jondesign.net)
[07:31] <pitti> fabbione: sure, but first I want to get rid of my vuln backlog
[07:31] <fabbione> pitti: is there anything for me in the queue?
[07:32] <pitti> fabbione: yeah, we have some pending issues
[07:32] <pitti> fabbione: the real unfortunate thing is that Linus doesn't use BK any more
[07:32] <jon1012> (I can't do one since I don't use ubuntu... I'm a member of the foresight team)
[07:32] <pitti> fabbione: i. e. there are no fancy patch URLs any more
[07:32] <fabbione> pitti: yeah
[07:32] <pitti> fabbione: basically we need to port the patches from 2.6.11.{7,8}
[07:32] <fabbione> amen
[07:32] <pitti> fabbione: I will collect some more data and bug you about this friday
[07:33] <fabbione> pitti: i won't be around before monday, but send me the mails anyway
[07:33] <fabbione> pitti: afaik some stuff in .7 and .8 did change quite a lot of things
[07:33] <fabbione> doko: did you also include the security fix in OOO 1.3 upload?
[07:33] <fabbione> doko: or did you just upload it?
[07:33] <jon1012> nobody interested in making ubuntu package for Appliworks ? :(
[07:34] <fabbione> jon1012: this isn't the right forum to ask
[07:34] <fabbione> you might want to see in #ubuntu-moty
[07:34] <fabbione> meh
[07:34] <fabbione> you might want to see in #ubuntu-motu
[07:34] <jon1012> fabbione: oh sorry
[07:34] <jon1012> what is #ubuntu-motu ?
[07:35] <fabbione> jon1012: Master of the Universe
[07:35] <jon1012> lool I see ;)
[07:35] <fabbione> basically all the developers that take care of universe
[07:35] <Nafallo> jon1012: masters of the universe; the developers that handle the big unsupported archive.
[07:35] <mdke> jon1012, its a development channel for people making Ubuntu packages in the universe archive
[07:35] <hunger> Does anybody have some docu on the lsb init-script functions? when to use which log_*, etc.?
[07:35] <mdke> jon1012, not to mention battling against the evil skeletor
[07:36] <jon1012> ok thanks :)
[07:36] <jon1012> mdke: loool
[07:36] <mdke> skeletor is no laughing matter
[07:36] <mdke> he will have you
[07:36] <jon1012> what is he ?
[07:37] <hunger> jon1012: skeletor is the minion in the master of the universe comics/toys.
[07:37] <mdke> http://www.he-man.org/cartoon/cmotu/index.shtml
[07:37] <jon1012> ok lol :)
[07:37] <jon1012> thx ;)
[07:38] <jon1012> loool
[07:38] <jon1012> hehe we should need a channel like this in foresight
[07:38] <mdz> Kamion: will syslinux be able to display localized text as well?
[07:38] <doko> fabbione: yes, daddy, the security fix is included as well ;-)
[07:39] <mdz> Kamion: reiser4progs has an air of sabdfl about it
[07:39] <Kamion> mdz: syslinux> no idea
[07:39] <fabbione> doko: ok dude...
[07:39] <fabbione> hey mdz
[07:39] <Kamion> mdz: sabdfl has distinctly failed to make it appear in the kernel
[07:39] <fabbione> Kamion: and please do not remind him.
[07:39] <fabbione> reiserfs4 is crack
[07:39] <Kamion> I have no intention of doing so; it's sick evil badness
[07:39] <fabbione> exactly
[07:41] <fabbione> later
[07:41] <Nafallo> fabbione: see you later :-)
[08:36] <mako> stockhol1: hey there. i managed to drag myself awake (at 2PM!)
[08:57] <stockhol1> mako: uff.
[08:59] <dilinger> mako: if the sun's still up, it counts as getting up early in my book.
[09:00] <tseng|work> dilinger++
[09:00] <Mithrandir> dilinger: so UDU was middle of the night for you?
[09:02] <dilinger> Mithrandir: yep.  which worked out suprisingly well, since i tend to gravitate towards waking up between 2 and 6 pm EST
[09:03] <ogra> heh
[09:03] <mvo> mdz: is there a cvs/svn repository for apt-listchanges? 
[09:04] <ogra> tseng|work, do we have a ubuntized dbus-sharp source pkg anywhere ?
[09:04] <tseng|work> dbus-sharp is part of dbus
[09:04] <tseng|work> but, since mono was in universe..
[09:04] <ogra> hmm...yeah, i c
[09:04] <tseng|work> we have a dbus-sharp source package that only installs the binding
[09:05] <tseng|work> it will be merged during breezy
[09:05] <ogra> ah, fine...
[09:05] <tseng|work> i need to talk to seb128 about libgda sometime
[09:05] <tseng|work> and go one pushing the bindings in
[09:06] <mdz> mvo: I have a local cvs, yes
[09:06] <mdz> mvo: I would like to have it imported into baz
[09:06] <mvo> mdz: that would be nice
[09:13] <mdz> Kamion: can you add a README to debootstrap about the template stuff?  I had no idea
[09:16] <Kamion> mdz: ok, will do
[09:35] <mdz> jbailey: what's your timeline for EarlyUserspace?
[09:38] <mdz> jbailey: it's a dependency of ThinClientIntegration
[09:39] <jbailey> mdz: klibc and udev uploads by the end of the week, kernel packaging changes to let us use it by mid to end of next week (since it may require coordinating with Debian maintainers to get it right)
[09:39] <jbailey> Upload of the mkinitramfs that I have now in that same timeframe.
[09:40] <jbailey> hotplug-ng in the week after, I'm guessing - have to talk to md to find out if he's packaging it for Debian already, I want to make sure that we can sync it.
[09:40] <mdz> jbailey: why, is Debian planning to transition to initramfs at the same time?
[09:40] <dilinger> sarge is frozen, why not? :)
[09:40] <jbailey> mdz: Fabio told me that he'd prefer our make-kpkg not diverge from Debian.
[09:41] <jbailey> It's mostly a matter of making sure that kernel-img.conf can be told to call something other than mkinitrd to build the initrd.
[09:41] <jbailey> So it makes sense to have the hooks be something that Debian is willing to sync.
[09:41] <mdz> have you, er, talked with the debian release team about this? :-P
[09:42] <jbailey> No =)  But since they're frozen it shouldn't be that big of a deal.   But that's why it's a week and a half out. =)
[09:44] <Kamion> the release team officially doesn't care about etch yet
[09:44] <Kamion> and it already looks like d-i will be moving to initramfs
[09:45] <Kamion> it's probably more relevant whether Manoj likes it :)
[09:45] <mdz> my reading of the release status update did not imply that it was no longer important to be able to (manually) propagate individual packages from sid->sarge if found to be necessary
[09:45] <mdz> we should probably have this discussion over on #d-d?
[09:45] <mdz> or #d-r
[09:46] <Kamion> it may be useful, but since t-p-u is now operational it is no longer a big deal to restrict use of unstable
[09:46] <Kamion> with the exception of libraries
[09:46] <mdz> so you're saying that I can upload apt 0.6.x to sid now? ;-)
[09:46] <Kamion> apt is a library ...
[09:46] <mdz> details
[09:47] <jbailey> mdz: This change should be safe even in that respect: I'm proposing add an option to kernel-img.conf.  If it's unset, it would still default to mkinitrd.
[09:47] <Kamion> as the announcement said, we're still asking people to use common sense to avoid making life difficult for others; I suppose kernel-package could affect new kernel builds
[09:54] <Kamion> anyhow, as you say, slightly more on-topic: the upshot is that lots of scary d-i hacking is happening in unstable, so we'll get to see that pretty much straight away
[09:57] <wasabi> http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1791653,00.asp
[10:08] <mcquaid> hello all
[10:08] <mcquaid> i want to try making some deb packages for ubuntu
[10:09] <GheRivero> res
[10:09] <mcquaid> i'm just going over the debian maintainers guide and it talks about starting from the source
[10:09] <mcquaid> i'm wondering can one grab debian's src debs and start from there to save some time?
[10:09] <crimsun> sure
[10:09] <mcquaid> i guess i would grab testing?
[10:10] <crimsun> probably better to choose sid
[10:10] <mcquaid> i thought sid at first, but someone menitoned to use testing as sid is still a moving target and some depends might have changed since ubuntus snap shot
[10:10] <mcquaid> but ok ill try sid
[10:11] <mcquaid> is there a good guide on this if one is starting with deb src packages?
[10:11] <crimsun> the new maintainer's guide, the debian developer's manual, the policy documentation, cdbs documentation
[10:12] <Kamion> if there's a Debian source package it will be (semi-)automatically synced/merged into Ubuntu and built
[10:12] <Kamion> if you're tweaking or just curious, install the devscripts and fakeroot packages and use debuild
[10:12] <mcquaid> i was going to start with the actual source but the first thing i was going to try is actually a python program and there isn't a make file to edit 
[10:12] <mcquaid> so i got kinda lost from there ;)
[10:12] <trulux> anyone going to attend to LSM?
[10:14] <ogra> mcquaid, just grab the sourcepackage of a existing python package and inspect ;)
[10:26] <dholbach> hey
[10:26] <JaneW> night all
[10:27] <ogra> night JaneW 
[10:28] <dholbach> good night janew
[10:28] <JaneW> *wave*
[10:28] <mcquaid> anyway to search debians ftp?
[10:32] <Kamion> mcquaid: I guess packages.debian.org is what you mean
[10:32] <uniq> mcquaid: like a package search? 
[10:32] <mcquaid> yes
[10:32] <uniq> as kamion said.. packages.debian.org
[10:33] <mcquaid> hmm, i'm going through the packages but can't find it, i know i have it in deb sid
[10:34] <mcquaid> it's a front end to visualboyadvance called gnomeboyadvance
[10:35] <Kamion> well, there's definitely no package called 'gnomeboyadvance' in Debian
[10:35] <mcquaid> eh? i know i have it in sid, don't want to reboot to find it 
[10:36] <ogra> probably from apt-get.org
[10:36] <Kamion> nor anything matching 'boyadvance' in the distribution apart from visualboyadvance and a kdevelop frontend for it
[10:36] <mcquaid> no i checked apt-get.org
[10:36] <Kamion> mcquaid: mount your sid partition and chroot to it
[10:37] <mcquaid> i have it mounted already, but how will that help me determine where i got it
[10:37] <ogra> http://developer.berlios.de/project/showfiles.php?group_id=1650&release_id=3263
[10:37] <ogra> mcquaid, ^^
[10:37] <mcquaid> yes thats its home page
[10:37] <mcquaid> but i recall getting it through apt
[10:37] <ogra> nope, the download page for the deb
[10:38] <Kamion> mcquaid: try 'apt-cache policy gnomeboyadvance', then
[10:39] <mcquaid> brb
[10:44] <tseng|work> http://tseng.ath.cx/photos/index.php?galerie=udu
[10:44] <dholbach> pictures!!!
[10:45] <tseng|work> yes.
[10:46] <ogra> whee
[10:47] <ogra> tseng, btw, i have a working mono environment here now (played a bit today) but dh_netdeps and dh_makenetlibs seem to be missing in the package source...
[10:47] <tseng|work> those are in cli-common
[10:47] <ogra> ahhh....
[10:47] <dholbach> are there any plans when the next TB meeting will be?
[10:47] <tseng|work> which should be installable now also
[10:47] <ogra> silly me... i thought in mono-utils
[10:47] <tseng|work> it used to be there
[10:48] <ogra> ah, ok
[10:48] <tseng|work> now that is just upstream stuff
[10:48] <tseng|work> see dh_net* is used for pnet also
[10:48] <tseng|work> not just mono
[10:48] <ogra> ah
[10:49] <mcquaid> ok i'm a stoner, i must have installed it manually
[10:49] <mcquaid> ill pick something else to learn making packages
[10:50] <mcquaid> btw, i notice that if i right click on a menu item there is no longer a properties option, i have to add it to the panel to get properties
[10:50] <mcquaid> is that a gnome 2.10 thing or did ubuntu simply the gnome menu?
[10:50] <mcquaid> i assume it's a 2.10 thing but just curious
[10:51] <tseng|work> 2.8 iirc
[10:51] <mcquaid> in 2.8 i do have properties when i r click
[10:51] <mcquaid> just not in 2.10
[10:51] <tseng|work> ok, 2.10
[10:51] <mcquaid> ok just curious
[10:54] <Sharpyy> hello
[10:57] <Sharpyy> does someone know a free alternative to SourceForge Enterprise ?
[10:59] <dholbach> tseng|work: nice pictures :-)
[11:00] <Nafallo> the namecards should be larger though :-)
[11:02] <luis_> Sharpyy: gforge
[11:03] <luis_> hrm, does anyone know why (w/ breezy) compiles would not be picking up my system libc symbols?
[11:03] <Sharpyy> luis_: thanks
[11:03] <ogra> tseng|work, you really got atalent for catching unintentional funny faces ;)
[11:06] <tseng|work> ogra yep
[11:06] <ogra> heh
[11:07] <ogra> hehe, luis_ in other spheres http://tseng.ath.cx/photos/index.php?galerie=udu&snimek=54
[11:07] <luis_> man
[11:07] <luis_> classic
[11:08] <tseng|work> luis_++
[11:08] <tseng|work> thats my favorite pic
[11:09] <tseng|work> time to go home
[11:09] <luis_> heh
[11:11] <fabbione> bah
[11:12] <ogra> ??
[11:12] <fabbione> 7 hours to get 2 X-rays 
[11:12] <ogra> bah
[11:12] <dholbach> oh?
[11:14] <Riddell> A
[11:14] <dholbach> hey Riddell 
[11:14] <ogra> fabbione, but at least your amd64 kernel from today works really fine .... (testing the k8) thumbs up so far
[11:15] <fabbione> ogra: rocking
[11:15] <ogra> yeah
[11:15] <fabbione> i think monday i will be able to upload
[11:15] <fabbione> i have a few things left on the todo list
[11:15] <ogra> i can finally see my pcmcia devices 
[11:15] <fabbione> given that hotplug gets fixed first
[11:15] <Nafallo> is there a http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/ConferenceGalleries for udu?
[11:16] <ogra> not yet i fear
[11:52] <luis_> ogra: http://phy.duke.edu/~icon/misc/serialluis.jpg <- friend did that from that pic
[11:52] <ogra> hehe
[12:00] <tseng> back
[12:01] <ogra> luis_, and thats how they look like if they come out again after 5 years ;) http://tseng.ath.cx/photos/index.php?galerie=udu&snimek=31
[12:02] <tseng> hah
[12:02] <tseng> yes i definately have some winners