[12:02] <ogra> heh
=== lamont goes to take his wife out for her birthday
[12:02] <ogra> lamont, have fun
[12:02] <tseng> cya lamont.
[12:02] <tseng> i going to break the buildd's while youre away
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[12:21] <dholbach> brb
[12:23] <mdz> fabbione: what is wrong with hotplug?
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[12:25] <ogra> dholbach, badger badger badger badger badger badger badger !
[12:25] <dholbach> re
[12:25] <dholbach> YES! :-)
[12:25] <Nafallo> lol
[12:25] <ogra> *g*
[12:25] <dholbach> now a breezy pbuilder and i can upload some fixes soon
[12:27] <dholbach> CONGRATULATIONS, tseng!
[12:27] <tseng> yay
[12:29] <ogra> hooray !
[12:29] <ogra> !
[12:29] <ogra> !!
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[12:37] <mdz> mako: awake?
[12:38] <tseng> mdz: my pictures are up if you missed them
[12:38] <tseng> tseng.ath.cx/photos
[12:38] <toresbe> hmm
[12:38] <mdz> tseng: I see it now, thanks
[12:39] <tseng> rock on.
[12:39] <toresbe> is there any safeguard against replacing the GDM sccreen with a keygrabber
[12:39] <tseng> toresbe: erm, users cant normally overwrite gdm for starters
[12:39] <tseng> if they can, you have bigger problems
[12:40] <toresbe> nono
[12:40] <tseng> than protecting against a keygrabber
[12:40] <toresbe> logging on as a normal user in perhaps safemode then presenting a fake GDM screen
[12:40] <tseng> uh
[12:40] <tseng> safemode?
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[12:40] <toresbe> xterm failsafe or whatever it's called
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[12:41] <toresbe> perkele, cyberix :P
[12:41] <cyberix> :-)
[12:41] <tseng> if you walked away from your pc, and someone else was on your account, they could theoretically make a mockup of gdm to steal your password
[12:41] <Nafallo> toresbe: you're still screwed if they get as far as to place it on the system IMO.
[12:41] <mdz> toresbe: the best defense is probably the fact that when the "real" gdm starts up, there is a noticeable video mode switch :-)
[12:41] <toresbe> mdz: can be faked
[12:41] <tseng> they bypassed a good bit of commonsense to get there
[12:42] <toresbe> nono
[12:42] <toresbe> Authenticated User B wants A's sudo rights
[12:42] <mdz> toresbe: you misunderstand
[12:42] <mdz> toresbe: fake gdm steals the password, then it needs to hand off to the "real" gdm
[12:42] <toresbe> B logs on and makes a program that looks like GDM.
[12:42] <toresbe> mdz: not really
[12:42] <mdz> after an incorrect password, real gdm just prompts again, while with the fake gdm there would be an unexpected mode change
[12:43] <tseng> if you are doing trusted things on system 1 with untrusted user B with local access
[12:43] <tseng> you are unwise.
[12:43] <toresbe> the program remaps backspace to something else and maps ctrl-alt-(x) to a quick XRandR call to switch the resolution
[12:44] <toresbe> the program runs an su user -c gnome-session or whatever.
[12:44] <cyberix> An university is a good example environment.
[12:44] <tseng> why would you trust a university pc to begin with
[12:44] <mdz> toresbe: a trojan which doesn't cover its tracks by allowing the user to log in the second time is easily discovered
[12:44] <tseng> you dont, for exactly this reason
[12:44] <toresbe> mdz: what do you mean?
[12:45] <toresbe> tseng: Windows has ctrl-alt-del
[12:45] <tseng> toresbe: because you only enter one password into windows during a normal session..
[12:45] <mdz> and the X server has control+alt+backspace
[12:45] <toresbe> mdz: that can be unmapped
[12:45] <mdz> but like any SAK-ish solution, it only works if every user uses it
[12:45] <mdz> toresbe: not by an unprivileged user
[12:45] <tseng> there are just alot of problems with your use case
[12:45] <toresbe> mdz: sure 
[12:45] <mdz> toresbe: try it
[12:46] <toresbe> mdz: I've done it
[12:46] <zul> tseng: your photos need descriptions 
[12:46] <tseng> zul: leave comments
[12:46] <mdz> toresbe: show me
[12:46] <tseng> for luis.. BUH.
[12:46] <toresbe> mdz: paying the ticket? :P
[12:46] <toresbe> mdz: ISTR it anyway
[12:46] <toresbe> mdz: Right now I've got no ctrl-alt-f* 
[12:46] <toresbe> and I don't wanna kill me X
[12:46] <mdz> toresbe: that is not the same thing
[12:47] <cyberix> Windows has a screen where you can't login before you press ctrl + alt + delete. But this is not irght because the user should understand she must secure the machine even, if the login mode is already open.
[12:47] <mdz> you don't need to; just show me the command sequence you use to disable it
[12:47] <zul> tseng: good pictures though
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[12:48] <dholbach> zul: especially all the plugs ;-)
[12:48] <zul> yeah
[12:48] <cyberix> Anyway ctrl + alt + backspace takes more time than the Windows thingie. So normal users will be likely to not do so.
[12:48] <zul> dholbach: you plug fetish
[12:49] <dholbach> zul: ME? i didnt take those pictures! :-)
[12:49] <zul> hehe
[12:50] <cyberix> I'd like to see a Windows user who presses ctrl + alt + delete before logging in, even when the computer is showing the login(g) mode while he sits by it.
[12:50] <cyberix> How can we do better.
[12:51] <cyberix> Atleast we can teach the user that he isn't doing it because he can't type in his login and password before pressing such combination.
[12:52] <cyberix> Maybe letting him type in his login and password, but showing a big red sign and not letting him in, if he didn't press the securing combination.C
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[01:12] <darwinist> UbUnTu rocks
[01:12] <HrdwrBoB> indeed
[01:13] <ydelaware> ubuntu rock
[01:13] <ydelaware> is that a new kind of music?
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[01:14] <mdke> candy
[01:17] <clee> so, is upgrading from warty to breezy supposed to work?
[01:18] <mdke> *grins*
[01:18] <infinity> clee : You mean right now, or by the time we release?
[01:18] <mdke> give it a try!
[01:18] <Nafallo> clee: that would be a question for #ubuntu, but no. you should upgrade to hoary first.
[01:18] <clee> Nafallo: fair enough
[01:18] <dholbach> good night everyone
[01:19] <Nafallo> dholbach: nightie :-)
[01:19] <ogra> night dholbach 
[01:19] <clee> so, then, a more devel-related topic. anybody here looked at launchd?
[01:19] <dholbach> bye ogra, Nafallo 
[01:19] <ogra> night all
[01:20] <Nafallo> ogra: nightie. see you tomorrow :-).
[01:20] <Nafallo> ogra: ehm, later today :-P.
[01:20] <mdke> nite
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[01:24] <ajmitch_> hi
=== dilinger waves
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[01:25] <infinity> Hey Andy.
[01:30] <AndyFitz> g'day infinity
[01:31] <AndyFitz> how goes being back home ?
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[01:32] <infinity> Sick. :/
[01:32] <infinity> Not sure if it was the long week in Sydney, or coming home to a drier climate, or just bad luck.
[01:32] <AndyFitz> bugger mate.   you shouldnt have spent those late nights in kings cross
[01:34] <mako> mdz: yeah yeah, i'm around
[01:35] <AndyFitz> evening mako
[01:36] <mdz> mako: was wondering if you'd thought about when to hold the next CC meeting
[01:36] <clee> heya, mako 
[01:37] <mako> mdz: do you ahve one planned for next tuesday?
[01:37] <mako> mdz: i'd like to get back on a every-other week schedule not conflicting with the TB
[01:38] <mako> if either of us is willing to do two weeks in a row, we can do that
[01:38] <mdz> mako: according to the old alternating schedule, TB would have been this week, and CC next
[01:39] <mako> mdz: you ok waiting two weeks or holding one sooner?
[01:39] <mako> i'd love to take next tuesday
[01:39] <mdz> mako: that's fine with me
[01:41] <mako> rad
[01:42] <mdke> you have a loooot of member candidates to get through ;)
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[01:45] <Nafallo> hehe, 21 :-)
[01:47] <mdke> the member candidate criteria needs to be spelled out a little...
[01:48] <dilinger> mako: what'cha up to?
[01:52] <mako> dilinger: not too much
[01:53] <mako> dilinger: i talked to greg.. he said to plan something for sunday. but i would like to hang out before
[01:53] <mako> Clint: with you too
[01:53] <Clint> not tonight
[01:53] <dilinger> mako: well, i'm heading up north for the weekend to pick stuff up..
[01:55] <mako> dilinger: ah, ok
[01:55] <mako> Clint: that's fine
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[03:18] <jba> hey guys
[03:19] <jba> don't know how to say this, so gonna come straight out with it. Appologies in advance if it upsets anyone
[03:19] <jba> I'm looking at coming into the job market in sept/oct this year, and wanted to know what the odds of working for canonical would belike
[03:19] <jba> and who to speak to about it
[03:22] <jba> cool, tseng got me on the right track. thanks guys
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[03:34] <tseng> anyone here with an amd64 and breezy?
[03:35] <jdub>   tomboy: Depends: libgnome-cil (>= 1.0) but it is not going to be installed
[03:35] <jdub> tseng: hrm ;)
[03:35] <tseng> jdub: libgnomedb rebuild
[03:35] <jba> hey jdub, congrats on wedding
[03:36] <tseng> jdub: i mailed seb to pretty please do it tommorow
[03:36] <jba> am a bit dissapointed I didn't get to meet you at udu, but my timing seemed a little off
[03:37] <jdub> thanks jba
[03:37] <jdub> tseng: ahr
[03:37] <tseng> jba: i met him, you didnt miss much
[03:38] <tseng> :P
[03:38] <jdub> ha ha
[03:38] <jba> tseng, hehe
[03:38] <jba> actually so far the only oss hacker I've met in real life that I knew from online world is james henstridge
[03:38] <jba> and that's cause i went to the wrong BOF
[03:38] <jba> was still interesting
[03:39] <jba> maybe it's better that way ?? ;)
[03:41] <tseng> jdub: so the word is, within the next few months we will have a non-xattr fallback for beagle
[03:41] <tseng> jdub: so it doesnt smoke crack on nfs and tmpfs
[03:41] <tseng> jdub: im still not sure what the effect would be if we put beagle in -desktop and it wound up on a livecd
[03:43] <tseng> jdub: http://lists.debian.org/debian-wnpp/2005/04/msg00550.html btw
[03:57] <|QuaD-> tseng: i noticed all of mono is in the repos, how come we can't install it yet? whats missing
[03:57] <tseng> |QuaD-: cant install what?
[03:57] <tseng> gtk-sharp is broken, libgnomedb needs built with new libgda, then maybe gtk-sharp built again
[03:58] <tseng> do you have an amd64 by chance?
[03:58] <|QuaD-> oh
[03:58] <toresbe> a lot of Ubuntu devs going to debconf?
[03:58] <|QuaD-> nope, not yet, in june i am building a dual opteron
[03:58] <tseng> then could you please just be patient and let me sort things out
[03:59] <|QuaD-> tseng: hahah, yeah, i was just curious :)
=== jba thinks of request to ask of tseng, just to tick him off ;)
[04:04] <jdub> tseng: elite!
[04:05] <tseng> jdub: BUT WAIT, THERES MORE
[04:05] <jdub> tseng: i wonder if they're going to use ._blah like apple did for tiger? :)
[04:05] <tseng> jdub: http://www.go-mono.com/archive/1.1.7/ < beagle x3
[04:06] <jdub> tseng: september... gar.
[04:06] <tseng> it doesnt matter, we can track it same as gnome
[04:06] <jdub> whoa
[04:06] <tseng> yes?
[04:07] <jdub> if we get it approved as a feature goal and are allowed to track it
[04:07] <tseng> my spec was approved
[04:07] <tseng> which involved moving the whole stack to main
[04:07] <Lathiat> wow, the new i/o layer sounds sweet
[04:07] <ajmitch_> lots of new crack in main
[04:08] <jdub> tseng: but doesn't necessarily cover post-UVF updates
[04:08] <tseng> when is uvh
[04:08] <jabra> I am wondering what the differnce for packages build for ubuntu compared to those built for debian
[04:08] <tseng> august?
[04:08] <tseng> jabra: the version string?
[04:08] <jabra> that it?
[04:09] <tseng> yes
[04:09] <jdub> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseCycle
[04:09] <jba> tseng, actually using multiverse/mallirat and tring to install gstreamer0.8-lame i had issues with dependencies on libc
[04:09] <tseng> and we stab people who dont put patches in debian/ and use diff.gz
[04:09] <jba> synaptic said it deped on a version of libc that wasn't any of repos at all
[04:10] <tseng> jba: whats that have to do with anything? its assumed you dont have binary compatibility between dists guaranteed
[04:10] <tseng> or it should be
[04:10] <tseng> gstreamer-lame would be nice to have in multiverse
[04:11] <tseng> do we get jail time for that?
[04:11] <jba> tseng, yeah i assumed that the gstreamer08-lame that was referenced by the haory mp3 howto on the wiki would be installable as the howto said
[04:11] <jba> but it wasn't
[04:11] <jba> i'll find the howto
[04:11] <tseng> I dont much care, its a wiki
[04:11] <tseng> the interested party (you) is meant to maintain it
[04:12] <jba> tseng, not bitching, just syaing that there is a little diff
[04:12] <jba> in response to jabra
[04:12] <tseng> the question was about packaging, not binary compatibility
[04:13] <tseng> pulling things built against debian and expecting them to work is silly
[04:14] <jabra> I am asking in #debian-devel too
[04:14] <jabra> it is the issue of building one deb 
[04:14] <tseng> um
[04:15] <jabra> and I am wondering if I build it for ubuntu if that could be accepted into debian
[04:15] <jabra> rather than having to make changes
[04:15] <tseng> youd have to change the changelog
[04:15] <jabra> and making  a different deb
[04:15] <jabra> ok
[04:15] <jabra> other than that?
[04:15] <tseng> youd have to test building it on both
[04:15] <tseng> naturally
[04:15] <Lathiat> hmm, g-v-m has borked, bugger
[04:16] <jabra> right
[04:17] <tseng> I do this for f-spot
[04:18] <Nafallo> tseng: you want me to test more tonight? :-)
[04:19] <tseng> Nafallo: no nice work
[04:19] <tseng> thanks alot
[04:21] <Nafallo> tseng: I will implement a real testing environment after I get some sleep :-).
[04:21] <tseng> ok rock on
[04:21] <tseng> *hopefully* the rest will wrap up tommorow
[04:21] <tseng> ill fix mono now before sleep
[04:21] <Nafallo> goodnight people :-)
[04:21] <tseng> bye
[04:21] <Nafallo> bye
[04:22] <Lathiat> ooh, tomboy stopped crashing, woo
[04:27] <tseng> it did.
[04:28] <Burgundavia> jdub, did you see this? http://steelgryphon.com/blog/?p=46
[04:29] <tseng> dude he totally stole my boogs
[04:29] <tseng> or i stole his.
[04:31] <jdub> Burgundavia: please make sure thom sees it :)
=== dilinger looks at openafs and considers patchbombing hartmans and upstream
[04:32] <Burgundavia> jdub, saw it on planet.moz, I imagine he will see it
[04:33] <Burgundavia> jdub, thom@ ?
[04:33] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  got any zar-like utils that are GPL and work on FAT/NTFS/ext23/xfs?
[04:33] <jdub> thom@ubuntu.com - thanks :)
[04:33] <tseng> bluefoxicy: i have a pillow like tool, i think im going to sleep on it.
[04:33] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  need something I can point at a drive that's been mkfs'd and get the files back
[04:34] <bluefoxicy> dammit.  Everything I'm finding (even the cool shit on the Helix livecd) is closed source
[04:34] <Lathiat> bluefoxicy: what file system?
[04:34] <Burgundavia> jdub, done
[04:35] <bluefoxicy> Lathiat: ?  Target or what does what support?
[04:35] <Lathiat> reiserfs is good for gettin data back when you do stupid shit like that, i learn that the other day. :)
[04:35] <bluefoxicy> Lathiat:  I'm just wondering about GPL recovery utils.  Have you tried Helix' windows programs?
[04:35] <Lathiat> bl	no i mean, what filesytem di dyou screw up
[04:35] <bluefoxicy> Lathiat:  I dunno, once in a while a customer comes in missing files :D
[04:36] <Lathiat> if you lose data on reiser, you can run a reiserfsck --rebuild-tree -S and it finds all the files it can and relinks them, but you dont really want to do it on a filesystem you want to keep. :)
[04:36] <Lathiat> cus it may eat your other data, and probably will. :)
[04:36] <bluefoxicy> heh
[04:36] <bluefoxicy> mainly after fat and ntfs
[04:36] <bluefoxicy> though a wide, wide range is good always.
[04:37] <Lathiat> i recommend a backup solution. :)
[04:37] <bluefoxicy> it's too late when people come into a best buy asking for data recovery due to windows eating itself :S
[04:38] <bluefoxicy> http://z-a-recovery.com/  <-- these fools can do it, and there's another tool that comes on Helix that can do it with FAT/NTFS/EXT2/EXT3/ReiserFS
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[04:56] <Lathiat> woo, avahi is shaping up
[04:56] <Lathiat> jdub: :)
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[05:41] <jsgotangco> hello
[05:43] <dilinger> here's some mako poetry
[05:43] <dilinger> http://www.acm.rpi.edu/~dilinger/sloth/pics/2005_udu/IMG_0266.JPG
[05:44] <jsgotangco> hehehehe i saw that
[05:44] <dilinger> (i wouldn't waste your time on the rest of the pics, i suck at taking pictures)
[05:44] <cc> is there a way to capture the installation? like pass an option so that a Hoary install can be sent to a vnc listner?
[05:45] <jsgotangco> i like the "we create a synergistic system" piece
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[05:49] <jsgotangco> dude you took pics of your hotel bathroom heh
[05:50] <jsgotangco> ok got it thanks
[05:50] <dilinger> i was all giddy
[05:50] <bob2> haha
[05:50] <dilinger> it took so long to get access to the damned room.. :P
[05:50] <jsgotangco> tell me about it i got my room after lunch
[05:50] <bob2> spiv: those magnets were the best idea, ever
[05:50] <dilinger> jsgotangco: so did i.  and i got faked out w/ the wrong room/card before lunch..
[05:52] <spiv> bob2: Thanks :)
[05:52] <spiv> bob2: I'll try to remember to bring them to the next conf too.
[05:56] <dilinger> http://www.acm.rpi.edu/~dilinger/sloth/pics/2005_udu/IMG_0318.JPG
[05:56] <dilinger> that was a good one.  you don't see that in the US
[05:57] <HrdwrBoB> dilinger: they're all over the place here
[05:58] <dilinger> if someone tried to do that in the US, people would get up in arms about encouraging drug use or something equally as stupid
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[06:00] <jsgotangco> AndyFitz, hey
[06:00] <dilinger> http://www.acm.rpi.edu/~dilinger/sloth/pics/2005_udu/IMG_0289.JPG
[06:00] <dilinger> and that is a great name
[06:01] <AndyFitz> g;day jsgotangco
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[06:02] <ajmitch_> afternoon andy
[06:02] <ajmitch_> heh, the pants sign
[06:07] <AndyFitz> afternoon ajmitch.
[06:11] <bluefoxicy> So before I sleep, this one's not for the bugzilla right?
[06:12] <bluefoxicy> After much googling i discover that there are no tools similar to PC Inspector File recovery or Zero Assumption Recovery (wow, descriptive name) that fall under GPL
[06:12] <mako> dilinger: oh man. i love magnetic poetry
[06:13] <bluefoxicy> so someone should make one, so I need to find people interested and I need to find docs about FAT, NTFS, and EXT2/3 to start with
[06:13] <jsgotangco> heh
[06:13] <jsgotangco> mako, hi
[06:13] <bluefoxicy> basically my options are find docs and write code myself, aren't they?
[06:13] <bluefoxicy> 'cause there's no bugzilla for programs that don't exist
[06:15] <mako> "mission a r y" thing was brillance
[06:16] <jsgotangco> i guess you can't separate sex with the office then thats why it had that word
[06:17] <jsgotangco> brb lunch
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[06:21] <jsgotangco> man my opera house pic suck
[06:21] <mako> jsgotangco: dude, you give me ANY set of magnetic poetry and i guarentee i can make a dirty poem out of it :)
[06:23] <jsgotangco> haha
[06:24] <crimsun> I thought that's the whole purpose of alphabet magnets
[06:24] <AndyFitz> I'm sure the makers are well aware of that
[06:24] <AndyFitz> hehe where else would the fun be
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[06:54] <tseng> dholbach: !
[06:54] <dholbach> hey
[06:55] <tseng> up for testing?
[06:55] <Burgundavia> If I want to get a font into Ubuntu/Debian, what licence must it be under?
[06:55] <Lathiat> tseng: im up for testing 
[06:55] <tseng> Lathiat: do you have an amd64?
[06:56] <Lathiat> oh, no
[06:56] <Lathiat> i could boot a qemu runnign x86-64 but
[06:56] <Lathiat> and i have access to an opteron
[06:56] <Lathiat> so i could
[06:56] <Lathiat> testing what?
[06:56] <tseng> a build
[06:56] <Lathiat> of?
[06:56] <tseng> of mono
[06:56] <dholbach> tseng: did you get a pbuilder set up?
[06:56] <calc> Burgundavia: email debian-devel or debian-legal to ask wrt debian
[06:56] <tseng> dholbach: on x86 I do
=== calc bbl
[06:57] <dholbach> tseng: for breezy?
[06:57] <tseng> yes
[06:57] <dholbach> hrm
[06:57] <tseng> i upgraded a hoary one
[06:57] <Burgundavia> I am about to start talks regarding a new font for inuktitut and I am wondering what the minimum is
[06:57] <tseng> anyway, im getting tired of testing amd64 stuff right on the buildd
[06:57] <dholbach> mine tries to set up {gcc,g++,cpp}-4.0 and dies with problems in there
[06:58] <dholbach> if i get the pbuilder working, i, i'm happy to test-build it here
[06:58] <tseng> well, there is a bit of logic that sets different confflags for amd
[06:58] <tseng> it worked before, now it doesnt
[06:58] <tseng> only difference is a bit of whitespace
[06:58] <tseng> a tab at the end of a line
[06:59] <Lathiat> is this in autoconf? whitespace in autoconf fucks everything
[06:59] <tseng> its make
[06:59] <Lathiat> ah
[06:59] <tseng> debian/rules
[07:03] <tseng> dholbach: basically, get the latest mono source in breezy, remove the whitespace in ifeq statement in rules, and see if it ftbfs still
[07:03] <dholbach> when i get the pbuilder working, yes
[07:04] <tseng> ok
[07:04] <tseng> thanks
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[07:14] <dholbach> tseng: ok... starting all over, trying to set up a hoary one first
[07:14] <tseng> ok
[07:15] <tseng> then --override-configs update to breezy
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[07:33] <dholbach> mako: ping
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[07:36] <mako> dholbach: hey dude
[07:36] <mako> whats up
[07:36] <dholbach> when is the next CC meeting? :-)
[07:36] <mako> dholbach: tuesday
[07:36] <mako> dholbach: not sure of the time
[07:36] <dholbach> tritium just needs CC approval for MOTUness
=== mako nods
[07:37] <dholbach> and there are a lot of other guys who want to join the member crew :-)
[07:37] <tritium> thanks for remembering, dholbach :)
[07:37] <mako> i know
[07:37] <mako> it's gonna be a long meeting
[07:37] <mako> mdz and i talked about it today
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=== dholbach nods
[07:37] <mako> tuesday is the day
[07:38] <mako> i'll figure out the time and announce i tomorrow
[07:38] <dholbach> i can give you the list of guys, i absolutely vouch for... member-wise
[07:38] <dholbach> (if that helps)
[07:38] <infinity> dholbach : Ooo, oo, vouch for me!
[07:38] <tseng> me next, me next
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[07:41] <dholbach> hrm, pbuilder is fine now
[07:41] <dholbach> but 'debuild -S' keeps hanging at   fakeroot debian/rules clean
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=== dholbach wonders, what's going wrong
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=== lamont sleeps
[07:44] <fabbione> morning
[07:45] <tseng> hi fabbione.
[07:45] <dholbach> hey fabbione 
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[07:47] <jsgotangco> hmmm
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[07:48] <Amaranth> d'oh
[07:48] <Amaranth> breezy gets mono 1.1.6 and 1.1.7 comes out
[07:48] <tseng> breezy doesnt have anything yet, everyone chill out
[07:48] <Amaranth> heh
[07:48] <Amaranth> well, breezy got it from sid
[07:49] <tseng> uh
[07:49] <tseng> not at all
[07:49] <Amaranth> oh, those are still in experimental for debian?
[07:49] <tseng> some are
[07:49] <tseng> some are in ~
[07:50] <dholbach> Amaranth: don't tell the MONO MASTER what he has done ;-)
[07:50] <tseng> ive decided to start posting status on the blog to avoid repeated questioning
[07:50] <jsgotangco> hey dholbach
[07:50] <jsgotangco> hey tseng
[07:50] <tseng> about "zomg mono is built why isnt app XYZ here yet"
[07:50] <dholbach> jsgotangco: jerome, how are you?
[07:50] <tseng> jsgotangco: sup dude?
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[07:50] <Amaranth> tseng: heh, you must get that a lot :)
[07:51] <tseng> Amaranth: only in 3 or 4 channels
[07:51] <Amaranth> i'm happy with 1.1.6, i don't plan on using beagle
[07:51] <Amaranth> btw, thank you
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[07:51] <jsgotangco> dholbach, tseng, I just came from lunch at KFC, its nice to eat junk food after our weeklong stint with real food
[07:51] <tseng> jsgotangco: hah, yes!
[07:51] <dholbach> ;-)
[07:51] <tseng> jsgotangco: ive had burritos 3 days in a row now
[07:51] <tseng> to make up
[07:51] <jsgotangco> haha i wont eat salad for a while
[07:51] <tseng> that green leafy stuff was bogus
[07:52] <dholbach> :-)
[07:52] <tseng> i wouldnt go so far as to call it salad
[07:52] <jsgotangco> i reckon we could have been more productive if we had pizza at least
[07:52] <tseng> we had pizza at work today, i ate too much
[07:52] <aj> the salt and pepper calamari at the place next to UDU was yummy
[07:52] <tseng> hm the cafe on the corner?
[07:52] <aj> the pub right next door, i think
[07:52] <tseng> i got a strange burger from there, it was on flat bread
[07:53] <jsgotangco> i got some good stuff from the cafe at the center of the park
[07:53] <tseng> hm they were always busy when i went by
=== ajmitch_ never went there, sadly
[07:54] <dholbach> did anyone run into "fakeroot debian/rules clean" hanging (when using debuild), after an upgrade to breezy?
[07:55] <ajmitch_> nope
=== jsgotangco will upgrade to breezy in a few days after finishing kubuntu docs
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[08:06] <crimsun> Kamion: just a heads-up, with debootstrap_0.2.45ubuntu33 (built on Hoary) and pbuilder_0.127 (installed on Hoary), a Breezy pbuilder can't be created yet on amd64
[08:09] <crimsun> Kamion: it loops trying to configure cpp > cpp-4.0 > gcc > gcc-4.0,cpp-4.0 ; g++ > gcc ...
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[08:19] <Burgundavia> for legal stuff, is mako the best person to ask?
[08:19] <dholbach> elmo could help you as well
[08:20] <Burgundavia> ok
[08:20] <Burgundavia> where does elmo live?
[08:20] <Burgundavia> he likely to be awake right now?
[08:20] <dholbach> but there are lots of opinions in here, just go ahead and ask the question :-)
[08:20] <jba> nemo ?
[08:20] <Burgundavia> I want to get an inuktitut font into main
[08:21] <Burgundavia> to be distributed as part of ubuntu
[08:21] <Burgundavia> as part of the larger project involving translation
[08:21] <Burgundavia> what are the legal requirements of said font
[08:21] <Burgundavia> s/legal/licencing
[08:21] <dholbach> does it have a license?
[08:21] <dholbach> (distributed with it)
[08:22] <Burgundavia> negatory
[08:22] <Burgundavia> currently freely downloadable
[08:22] <Burgundavia> but unknown on redistribution
[08:22] <Burgundavia> before I ask, I want to know what I should be asking for
[08:23] <dholbach> couldn't you propose any of the licenses of other font-packages in main to upstream?
[08:23] <Burgundavia> sure
[08:23] <tseng> look at bistream vera maybe
[08:23] <tseng> http://www.gnome.org/fonts/#Final_Bitstream_Vera_Fonts
[08:24] <Burgundavia> cool;
[08:24] <Burgundavia> ok
[08:24] <Burgundavia> thanks
[08:25] <tseng> that might not be the most open
[08:25] <tseng> but its distributed by everyone these days
[08:25] <Burgundavia> I am looking for minimum level right now
[08:25] <Burgundavia> as I am expecting the maker (a gov) not to understand our requirement
[08:30] <Burgundavia> thanks
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[08:36] <dholbac1> GRR, my box just cracked and 'rebooted'
[08:36] <dholbac1> mvo: good morning
[08:37] <mvo> hey dholbac1 
=== dholbac1 is now known as dholbach
[08:37] <mvo> morning all
[08:38] <mvirkkil> morning
[08:41] <Kamion> crimsun: ok, doesn't really surprise me though, breezy only became debootstrappable *at all* a day or two ago
[08:41] <Kamion> Burgundavia: both the Debian and Ubuntu web sites have pages on their licensing policies
[08:42] <Burgundavia> Kamion, cheers, thanks
[08:42] <Kamion> http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines
[08:43] <Kamion> if you meet that, you'll satisfy Ubuntu requirements too
[08:43] <Burgundavia> ok
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[08:50] <Burgundavia> by the DFSG, is the gnome font licence for bitstream vera really free?
[08:51] <mjg59> Yes
[08:51] <mjg59> There's no DFSG requirement for something to be distributable on its own
[08:51] <Burgundavia> ah
[08:51] <Burgundavia> ok
[08:51] <mjg59> (This was needed to make the Artistic license free)
[08:51] <Burgundavia> as I reread, I see it now
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[09:07] <jsgotangco> JaneW: hello
[09:07] <JaneW> hi jsg
[09:08] <JaneW> (forgive the contraction - you have a long nick)
[09:08] <jsgotangco> i don't mind
[09:08] <Mithrandir> JaneW: tabcompletion is nice, though
[09:08] <jsg> i own jsg as well anyway
[09:09] <jsg> :)
=== JaneW smiles at jsgotangco
[09:09] <jsg> how have you been
[09:09] <JaneW> (I like to be contrary)
[09:09] <JaneW> Mithrandir: I don;t seem to have tab completion (using x-chat)
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[09:10] <JaneW> jsg: well thanks, finally waking up again, I have been in a daze since UDU
[09:10] <Burgundavia> JaneW, what are you using? xchat as always had so for me
=== JaneW tries again ... Mithrandir 
[09:11] <JaneW> ok, it works when you know how ;)
[09:11] <jsg> I've just recovered...i don't understand myself I've always been sleeping a lot lately i guess i've been pretty busy
[09:11] <Burgundavia> indeed
[09:11] <JaneW> jsg: I cant get enough sleep, and I am having the WEIRDEST dreams
[09:11] <jsg> hmm
[09:12] <jsg> Mentos mutants perhaps?
=== jvw_ is now known as jvw
[09:14] <Simira> hehe
[09:14] <JaneW> jsg: don;t joke I actaully brought a handful back - for the kids, but they are scaring me ;)
[09:15] <JaneW> scaring/scarring whatever both work
[09:15] <jsg> *grin*
[09:17] <infinity> Oh, no wonder I'm feeling a bit flat/sick this week.
[09:17] <infinity> Mentos whitdrawal.  It all makes sense.
[09:17] <infinity> s/whit/with/
[09:18] <jsg> i feel the same way
[09:18] <Lathiat> heh
=== JaneW tosses one in the general direction of Melborne
[09:19] <mjg59> Last night I dreamt I was a wireless router
[09:19] <infinity> I've been incredibly unproductive since getting back... Which just means working twice as long (or twice as smart!) next week.  Oh well.
[09:19] <mjg59> I feel better this morning
[09:20] <infinity> JaneW : I'm trying to kick the habit, thanks.  I think it's for the best.  One morning at UDU, I think I had 3 or 4 bowls to myself in the space of 2 BoFs.
[09:20] <JaneW> infinity: aaarrrgh!
[09:20] <mdz> mako: I didn't realize ututo-e was based on gentoo
[09:21] <Amaranth> 3 or 4 bowls of Mentos? Either we're talking about different things or your breath was mighty fresh.
[09:21] <jsg> i wasn't able to get a decent photo of the opera house
[09:21] <jsg> we had a crappy tour guide
[09:23] <JaneW> jsg: it didn't help that the windows were tinted
[09:23] <mjg59> Amaranth: There were fruit-flavoured ones as well
[09:23] <JaneW> jsg: we weren't going to get to see it at all - until I begged that they do a detour on the way to the movie...
[09:24] <infinity> Amaranth : Mentos fruit flavour.
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[09:26] <jsg> if we were two weeks in sydney, we're all doomed with the mentos, redbull and pepsi max
[09:26] <mjg59> I'm now entirely unused to the idea of having to make my own food
[09:26] <mjg59> I keep expecting there to be trays of it around the place
[09:26] <jsg> lol
[09:27] <Amaranth> red bull is killer
[09:27] <jsg> Amaranth: yeah, the can had this warning not to take more than 2 cans a day
[09:27] <Amaranth> it's even worse mixed with beer or liquor
[09:27] <JaneW> btw cvd arranged that red bull 
[09:27] <Amaranth> heh, i used to drink a 6-pack a day
[09:28] <dholbach> aaargh
[09:28] <jsg> when you pour redbull in a glass it looks so much like beer
[09:28] <Amaranth> couldn't see straight if drank too fast
[09:28] <Amaranth> everything started wobbling
[09:29] <mjg59> It was banned in France
[09:29] <mjg59> No idea if that's still the case
[09:30] <dholbach> redbull is evil stuff... jellygums resolved in weird chemicals
=== Simira regrets missing UDU
[09:32] <Simira> JaneW: so, how did you manage to get yourself into this mess?
[09:32] <dholbach> are there any pictures up yet? i know of galleries of jblack and tseng
[09:33] <Simira> dholbach: Mithrandir's are up... let's see
[09:33] <jsg> i haven't checked tseng's gallery yet
[09:33] <dholbach> where where where? :-)
[09:33] <Simira> http://www.err.no/pictures/2005-04-30/
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[09:34] <Simira> and http://www.err.no/pictures/2005-05-03/
[09:34] <jsg> oooo
[09:35] <mdz> Simira: oh god, what an awful picture of me
=== Amaranth looks
[09:35] <Lathiat> haha
[09:35] <Simira> mdz: Yes, I made that comment too when I saw it ;p
[09:36] <Simira> I mean - awful, like in a Ubuntu way.
[09:36] <jsg> hehee
[09:37] <mdz> it's like I'm blinking, talking and swallowing all at the same time
[09:37] <Lathiat> heh crazy photos of daniels as usual
[09:37] <jsg> pia looks pissed
[09:37] <Simira> all in all - Ubuntu crowd pics. :p
[09:37] <dholbach> wow there are pictures of jdub where he looks kind of normal, cool :-)
[09:38] <Lathiat> i met a few really cool pics
[09:38] <Lathiat> dh	hahaha yeh
[09:38] <Simira> huh? Where?
[09:38] <Lathiat> pics? oh man
[09:38] <Simira> gotta take them away!
[09:38] <Lathiat> my brain need to be rpeplaced
[09:38] <Lathiat> *met a few really cool people
[09:38] <Simira> Lathiat: yes. You're a community person? What do you do in Ubuntu?
[09:39] <Treenaks> any people here who know upstream HAL a bit?
[09:39] <Lathiat> Simira: im not a community person
[09:39] <Lathiat> i dont really do anythign for ubuntu at the moment
[09:39] <Lathiat> apart from convince lots of people ot use it. :)
[09:40] <Lathiat> ive done bits and peices for gome in the past and am working on network service discovery stuff at the moment (mdns-sd/rendezvous)
[09:41] <Simira> Lathiat: Ok. Gnome/Debian stuff?
[09:41] <dholbach> Treenaks: pitti and ogra will
[09:41] <Simira> Lathiat: hangaround, eh? Almost like me ;p
[09:41] <Lathiat> heh
[09:41] <Treenaks> dholbach: ok, and I guess they're not up yet :)
[09:41] <Simira> Lathiat: you're from .au?
[09:41] <Amaranth> http://www.err.no/pictures/2005-04-30/medium/dsc00770.jpg <--who is that?
[09:42] <Lathiat> Simira: yep, perth
[09:42] <Lathiat> Amaranth: anthony towns (aj)
[09:42] <Treenaks> Amaranth: going by the hackergotchi, I'd say AJ
=== Lathiat nods at Treenaks 
=== Amaranth giggles
[09:42] <JaneW> Simira: I don;t know...
[09:42] <Treenaks> hackergotchis are useful!
[09:43] <Treenaks> (though I didn't recognise jdub the first time around ;))
=== JaneW is still trying to get pictures up... resorting to webshots now
[09:43] <Lathiat> robert loves hackrgotchi looks very different to hi
[09:43] <Lathiat> m, at least i think so
[09:43] <Amaranth> yeah, jdub looks nothing like his hackergotchi
[09:44] <jsg> its becausehe doesn't have any hair back then
[09:44] <JaneW> beanbag! :)
[09:44] <Simira> JaneW: poor you ;) What do you do in the distroteam? Anything fun,or just holding back the guys by their ears?
[09:44] <jsg> she's the slave driver
[09:44] <Simira> :D Sounds good
[09:45] <JaneW> Simira: I like the ears idea...
[09:45] <chmj> hey, don't give her ideas 
[09:45] <JaneW> where were the balloons
[09:45] <jsg> chmj: hehe
[09:46] <JaneW> chmj: why cos yours are closest?
[09:46] <Simira> JaneW: I know they might need it sometimes. I was in Matar....
[09:47] <Simira> JaneW: where are you located? UK?
[09:48] <chmj> JaneW: yes
=== Micksa_ is now known as Micksa
[09:53] <mdz> I've been spoiled by the UDU wiki; I no longer have patience for www.ubuntu.com/wiki
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[09:54] <dholbach> WikiTransition! now! :-)
[09:56] <Mithrandir> JaneW: the balloons were from LCA.
[09:56] <Mithrandir> JaneW: we used them to send glasses of wine around.  Mucho fun.
[09:57] <bob2> and to help colin
[09:57] <Mithrandir> yeah.  His hair was heavy.
[09:57] <JaneW> Mithrandir, cool
[09:57] <Mithrandir> almost as heavy as a wine glass, iirc.
[09:58] <JaneW> Simira: no, Cape Town, SA
[09:58] <bob2> haha
[09:58] <JaneW> can I put a link to those pics on the wiki?
[09:58] <dholbach> JaneW: which wiki? the canonical internal one?
[09:59] <JaneW> mdz: I also preferred the UDU wiki 
[09:59] <JaneW> dholbach: yes, the photos - pretty page
[09:59] <jsg> *groan*
=== dholbach wants to have access as well :-)
=== Simira too
=== jsg too wants to see pretty pics
[10:00] <Mithrandir> just put the links to the galleries somewhere on either one of the public ones.
[10:01] <Simira> #ubuntu-devel is fine with me :)
[10:02] <bob2> hah
[10:02] <Simira> talking of wiki... have/can/will you fix the ubuntu.no-wiki for me, Mithrandir?
[10:02] <Simira> bob2: nice pic of you by Tollef :)
[10:02] <Mithrandir> Simira: sure; this evening?
[10:03] <Simira> Mithrandir: mmokey, then
[10:03] <Simira> oops
=== Simira pushed a lot of buttons, and got a lot of emails
[10:04] <bob2> Simira: hah, it's terrible
[10:05] <bob2> Simira: make tollef take the "make everyone look ugly" filter off his camera before he goes away next time
[10:05] <JaneW> hehe
[10:05] <Mithrandir> bob2: http://err.no/pictures/2005-04-30/slides/dsc00800.html is nice, though
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[10:06] <Mithrandir> bob2: helix liked it too. ;)
[10:06] <Simira> bob2: I don't think it's his camera... It might have something to do with those people... I don't know for sure
[10:06] <bob2> Simira: BAH
[10:06] <Simira> ;p
[10:06] <jsg> nice shot
[10:06] <bob2> Mithrandir: you were lucky to take a photo during the five seconds I was smiling all week
[10:07] <Simira> bob2: I'll take the pictures nect time :)
[10:07] <bob2> Simira: yay
[10:07] <mjg59> bob2: I'm almost feeling well again!
[10:07] <Mithrandir> mjg59: you whipped yourself with a few cat5 cables to get rid of the wireless feeling?
[10:07] <Simira> Mithrandir!!!
[10:07] <Simira> Wash your thoughts!
[10:07] <Mithrandir> Simira: I'm considering getting a digital SLR.
[10:08] <Mithrandir> Simira: hey, he said he did dream of being a wlan router
[10:08] <Simira> Mithrandir: yes, and nothing of cable whipping. What do you need an SLR for?
[10:08] <bob2> mjg59: yay!
[10:09] <Robot101> mjg59: wahey, to the pub-mobile! :)
[10:09] <Mithrandir> Simira: well, whipping oneself with cables should rid one of the wireless feeling, at least.
[10:09] <Mithrandir> Simira: SLR?  Take pictures, of course.
[10:09] <mjg59> Robot101: Not until you've finished your PROJECT
[10:09] <Robot101> mjg59: HNNRGGGHHHHH
[10:09] <mjg59> Haha
[10:09] <bob2> Simira: it's not about "need", it's about "shiny"
[10:09] <JaneW> those photos are really good
[10:09] <Simira> bob2: he's got me
[10:09] <Robot101> mjg59: I made it almost work yesterday, all I need to do now is add another 8 or 9 syscalls and then write the other half of it, which should be easy
[10:10] <Simira> JaneW: hey, where are yours?
[10:10] <Robot101> mjg59: it's tempting to write it in perl, but I think my supervisor would... kill me :D
[10:10] <mjg59> Robot101: Excellent, you'll be finished by Sunday and we can go to the pub!
[10:10] <Lathiat> Robot101: what project is this?
[10:10] <bob2> Simira: exactly
[10:10] <Simira> Mithrandir: you have a digicam
[10:10] <Mithrandir> Simira: yes, a compact one.  It sucks in little light and such.
[10:10] <Robot101> mjg59: oh, no. then I have to write the dissertation, which is what I get the marks for.
[10:11] <Robot101> mjg59: rowenio suggests I stop coding and just lie in the dissertation
[10:11] <infinity> Mithrandir : Get a 20D, so I'll have one more person to consider stealing from at the next conference.
[10:11] <Simira> Mithrandir: that's because you got a lousy cam :p Besides, you wouldn't bring a SLR anywhere, either
[10:11] <Robot101> Lathiat: filesystem modification monitoring crack - ned.ucam.org/~robot101/proposal.pdf
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=== infinity looks sadly at his now obsolete 300D.
[10:11] <Mithrandir> Simira: I would.
[10:11] <JaneW> Simira: still trying to upload them, but they are awful compared to those... old useless camera, old useless operator
[10:11] <Simira> JaneW: aww
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[10:12] <Mithrandir> infinity: I'm more of a nikon person.
[10:12] <Simira> JaneW: I'd need a pic of you. Tollef got Claire(right spelled?) but no Jane.
[10:12] <JaneW> nod *grin*
[10:12] <jsg> i only have one group photo the one from jblack
[10:13] <Simira> Mithrandir: well, if you want that for your birthday, you have to put some more money on my account.
[10:13] <Mithrandir> Simira: I didn't say I wanted you to buy me one, I said I considered getting one. :)
[10:13] <Mithrandir> Simira: and besides, if I took pictures of all the gals, I figured you'd be jealous or something. ;)
=== Mithrandir hides
[10:14] <Simira> Mithrandir: bah. You just want to use the money yourself, instead of giving them to me.
[10:14] <jsg> i haven't seen any pics of adi
[10:14] <Simira> Mithrandir: you mean I should have a reason to?
[10:14] <Mithrandir> Simira: nah, just teasing you
[10:15] <JaneW> jsg: I dodn;t get one either
[10:15] <JaneW> didn't
[10:15] <Simira> Mithrandir: shouldn't you work on your assignment now?
[10:15] <jsg> :(
[10:15] <Mithrandir> Simira: I should
=== Simira considers if she should eat some chocolate
[10:16] <infinity> Mithrandir : I was more of a Pentax person until I got the 300D.  The value at the time was hard to pass up.
[10:17] <Treenaks> I'm getting the 350D
[10:17] <Mithrandir> the 300D is dirt cheap, though
[10:18] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: because the 350D has succeeded it
[10:18] <infinity> I got it for 700 USD almost a year and a half ago now.
[10:18] <infinity> It was a pretty decent value at the time, given the price of everything else.
[10:18] <Treenaks> also, the 300D is crippled, the 350D isn't (or less)
[10:19] <Mithrandir> I'm just a bit wary of buying Nikon ATM due to their _silly_ policy wrt documentation of the RAW format.
[10:20] <infinity> Adobe's been trying to push manufacturers toward an open RAW format, but I dunno how well they're doing with that.
[10:20] <infinity> I think they're just sick of adding new formats to their RAW plugin every three days.
[10:20] <Treenaks> infinity: understandable, really
[10:20] <Mithrandir> there's no reason for it to be proprietary in any way, as long as the manufacturers can extend it in well-defined ways.
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[10:39] <ogra> mornin
[10:39] <jsg> ogra: mornin' to you1
[10:39] <dholbach> hey ogra!
[10:41] <Mithrandir> hi ogra
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[11:01] <lifeless> debian/rules question
[11:01] <lifeless> I need to add -Wno-pointer-sign to CFLAGS but only for gcc-4.0 builds
[11:02] <Lathiat> pff, fix your software not to need it. :)
[11:02] <lifeless> Lathiat: nice. now the real answer please.
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[11:02] <lifeless> Lathiat: I'm not fixing 68K LOC with mixed pointer types tomorrow
[11:03] <Mithrandir> ifeq $(,$(shell gcc --version | grep 4\\.0))\nCFLAGS += -Wno-pointer-sign\nendif
[11:03] <Mithrandir> I'd guess.
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[11:04] <lifeless> Mithrandir: thanks!
=== lifeless shall see 
[11:05] <Mithrandir> lifeless: or build-dep on gcc (>= 4.0) and add it unconditionally.
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[11:05] <lifeless> Mithrandir: I'm so not breaking backports.org
[11:06] <Mithrandir> lifeless: fair enough
[11:06] <lifeless> ;)
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[11:30] <ogra> badger badger badger badger badger badger badger http://www.grawert.net/udu-gallery/img049.jpeg
[11:30] <ogra> http://www.grawert.net/udu-gallery/
[11:31] <jdub> heh
[11:31] <Lathiat> haha wtf was that
[11:32] <ogra> the breezy dance....
=== ogra wants a new cam ...
[11:32] <jdub> http://www.grawert.net/udu-gallery/img045.jpeg.html
[11:32] <Lathiat> i so missed out
[11:33] <Mithrandir> hm, what's the easiest to get a patch showing all the differences between two branches in baz?
[11:35] <Mithrandir> hm, baz delta, it seems.
=== Lathiat notes that down
[11:35] <Lathiat> :)
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=== astharot- is now known as astharot
[11:37] <ogra> sightseeing with tainted windows at night :) http://www.grawert.net/udu-gallery/img046.jpeg
[11:37] <ogra> s/tainted/tinted
[11:37] <astharot> ciao
[11:39] <Mithrandir> ogra: why are your thumbnails so thumby?  (That is, so small?)
[11:39] <ogra> to small ? 
=== ogra blames gthumb
[11:39] <Lathiat> they see fine sized to me...
[11:39] <Mithrandir> on the overview page, they are tiny
[11:39] <Mithrandir> like, 100x80px or so
[11:40] <Mithrandir> (ok, 120x90 then)
[11:40] <ogra> heh, yep....
[11:40] <ogra> think of the poor aussies that want to view them....
[11:41] <ogra> its bandwidth friendly....
=== Mithrandir sighs.
[11:41] <Mithrandir> I have 50k lines of patches for multiarch stuff
[11:41] <ogra> uff
[11:42] <dholbach> after hours of hard work: http://www.grawert.net/udu-gallery/img046.jpeg
[11:44] <Lathiat> dholbach: more hour sof hard work?
[11:45] <ogra> dholbach, sightseeing with imagination of the outside due to lack of sight .... ;) 
[11:45] <dholbach> ogra: yeah... exactly... i just tried hard to remember how it looked in daylight :-)
[11:45] <ogra> heh
[11:46] <JaneW> FWIW here are my pics http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=viewall&albumID=338849189
[11:47] <dholbach> hrm
[11:47] <dholbach> "You do not appear to be the owner of this album. Make sure you are logged in."
[11:47] <jsg> yeah
[11:47] <jsg> brb
[11:47] <JaneW> erk, but I made it public...
[11:48] <jdub> Mithrandir: 50k! hfsnw!
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[11:48] <astharot> ciao enrico
[11:49] <JaneW> http://community.webshots.com/album/338849189afiQFQ?824 <- that should work
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[11:49] <enrico> hi
[11:50] <dholbach> yeah... better :-)
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[11:52] <jsg> top posting :(
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[11:57] <JaneW> jsg: ?
[11:57] <JaneW> orga: I love the difference between your before and after conference pictures . you can see how TIRED we all got
[11:57] <ogra> jsg, whats wrong there.... people are still polite
[11:58] <ogra> JaneW, yeah :)
[11:58] <jsg> what's so weird about key signing JaneW :)
[11:59] <JaneW> jsg: from an outdside perspective it *looks* very weird, of course by next conference/developer sumit or whatevere I am sure I'll be right in there ;)
[11:59] <jsg> heh
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[11:59] <ogra> JaneW, so we can finally trust you then ? ;)
[12:00] <JaneW> ogra: yes ;)
[12:00] <jsg> haha
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[12:03] <jsg> ogra, i meant the top posting thread has gone quite OT but then you're right if people are still polite its not an issue
[12:04] <ogra> jsg, yeah, i love this community, in other lists i read this would have turned into a flamewar days ago :)
[12:05] <ogra> the sad thing is that you cant come to a conclusion in such threads....
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[12:08] <seb128> hi carlos 
[12:08] <carlos> morning
[12:09] <seb128> tseng: libgnomedb2-4 is built with libgda2-3
[12:10] <tseng> hm I only see -3
[12:13] <Lathiat> Does synaptic have the ability to ask it to do a package update from the command line?
[12:14] <tseng> seb128: yep i dont have libgnomedb2-4 on breezy
[12:15] <seb128> hum
[12:15] <seb128> it probably ftbfs 
=== seb128 looks on the build logs
[12:15] <Lathiat> whats fs stand for?
[12:16] <tseng> fails to build from source.
[12:16] <thom> fail to build from source
[12:16] <tseng> thom!
[12:16] <thom> hola
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[12:16] <jsg> tseng, you got some pics from UDU?
[12:16] <tseng> jsg: tseng.ath.cx/photos
[12:16] <jsg> thanks
[12:17] <JaneW> jsg: are there more, I have seen ogra's and tollef's so far...
[12:18] <ogra> JaneW, jblack http://gallery.linuxguru.net/UbuntuDownUnder-4-2005
[12:18] <jsg> i have some few i will upload them later
[12:19] <JaneW> ta
[12:19] <thom> tseng: your flights back were ok?
[12:20] <tseng> thom: "ok" yes :)
[12:21] <bob2> tseng: nice stylesheet
[12:21] <thom> i love the MAGIC whiteboard
[12:21] <tseng> bob2: its jimmac's script
[12:21] <bob2> ah
[12:21] <bob2> the thumbnails seem a bit stretched
[12:23] <tseng> possibly
[12:25] <tseng> seb128: maybe it just needs kicked again?
[12:25] <jsg> ogra, whats the url of your gallery?
[12:25] <ogra> http://www.grawert.net/udu-gallery/
[12:25] <bob2> jsg: grawert.net/udu-gallery/
[12:26] <seb128> tseng: I've uploaded a package sync on Debian 10 min ago
[12:26] <tseng> yay
[12:26] <seb128> tseng: if it doesn't build that's because libgda2-3 is universe and should probably be main, I'll ping elmo if that ftbfs again
[12:27] <Mithrandir> hmm, why does baz delta -n --diffs include all the diffs three times or so?
[12:28] <tseng> seb128: great sorry to be a bother
[12:29] <seb128> np
[12:29] <thom> i need to upload my photos; most are from jdub's wedding though
[12:29] <thom> by the way, has anyone played with picasa? (google's photo app) -  it looks and feels very much like a polished fsport
[12:29] <thom> f-spot, even
[12:31] <Lathiat> and i thought f-spot was polished
[12:32] <jsg> i always compared f-spot with picassa
[12:35] <lifeless> fabbione: baz 1.4 should build with gcc-4.0 in ~ 45 minutes - 3 commits have to make check.
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[12:35] <lifeless> fabbione: to get 1.3.2 building, you can backport (should be trivial) or not fix it ;)
[12:35] <dholbach> JaneW: this isnt me: http://community.webshots.com/photo/338849189/338861060HQDuQx# - or i looked odd the other day and don't remember :-)
[12:36] <ogra> its tseng i guess
[12:36] <tseng> yes.
[12:36] <tseng> and andy
[12:36] <tseng> where is the index for that?
[12:36] <tseng> oh.
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[12:38] <JaneW> dholbach: yes sorry I think I got one or 2 names confussed, I'll go fix..
[12:38] <bob2> uh-oh
[12:38] <dholbach> JaneW: dont worry :-)
[12:38] <bob2> man that site is slow
[12:38] <ogra> the site is ok... the banners are slow....
[12:39] <JaneW> bob2: if I could get into people.ubuntu.com I would have put them there...
[12:40] <bob2> hm
[12:40] <dholbach> yeah p.u.c for everyone!
[12:40] <tseng> "bob2 cheers up"
[12:40] <bob2> oh, your password is encrypted with a key you don't have?
[12:40] <tseng> dholbach: yeah!
[12:40] <dholbach> <name>@ubuntu.com for everyone!
[12:40] <bob2> tseng: never.
[12:40] <dholbach> :-)
[12:40] <jsg> i love you bob2
[12:40] <jsg> hehe
[12:40] <JaneW> dholbach: do you know who that is?
[12:41] <dholbach> JaneW: i think it's tseng
[12:41] <Mithrandir> looks like AndyFitz and tseng
[12:41] <tseng> < ogra> its tseng i guess
[12:41] <tseng> < tseng> yes.
[12:41] <tseng> < tseng> and andy
[12:41] <ajmitch_> such a shame I'm not in any of those :)
[12:41] <tseng> ajmitch_: you share a silver moment with luis
[12:42] <AndyFitz> janeW thats me on the left and tseng on the right
[12:42] <ajmitch_> yeah, that one is funny
[12:42] <JaneW> ajmitch: I avoided names I wasn;t sure of
[12:42] <JaneW> and even them I got some wrong
[12:42] <JaneW> so sorry ;)
[12:42] <JaneW> ok, thanks
[12:42] <tseng> http://tseng.ath.cx/photos/index.php?galerie=udu&snimek=54 wee
[12:42] <jsg> you can just name them the way jblack did: some ubuntu hackers hehehe
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[12:44] <jsg> ok im out see you guys later
[12:44] <ajmitch_> bye jsg 
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[12:45] <JaneW> better now?
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[12:45] <JaneW> ajmitch: which pic are you in?
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[12:45] <JaneW> oic got it
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[12:46] <ajmitch_> JaneW: none of yours except the group shot
[12:46] <ajmitch_> hi chmj 
[12:46] <chmj> hi ajmitch_  
[12:47] <JaneW> ajmithc: don't feel bad, no one took photos of me either ;)
[12:47] <bob2> so
[12:47] <bob2> can I plug a ata-100 drive into a ata-33 controller using a 40 pin cable?
[12:47] <bob2> and have it work at ata-33.
[12:47] <Lathiat> yeh
[12:48] <ogra> ajmitch_, http://www.grawert.net/udu-gallery/img027.jpeg.html 
[12:48] <Lathiat> they only use ata-100 if you have an 80pin cable (even on an ata100 bus)
[12:48] <bob2> is this a "it might work, but watch those backups" or a "'tis fine, ata falls back" thing?
[12:48] <ajmitch_> ogra: thanks :)
[12:48] <Lathiat> nah its fin
[12:48] <Lathiat> *fine
[12:48] <Lathiat> its designed to work like that. :)
[12:49] <bob2> Lathiat: excellent, thanks
[12:49] <bob2> jesus christ it's hard to get into this hp
[12:49] <AndyFitz> janeW  : http://bytebot.net/shots/dsc03162.jpg   colin charles took this 
[12:50] <bob2> this machine apparently consumed all the metal they wanted to use in their shitty plastic printers
=== ajmitch_ sees some mao photos
[12:51] <Lathiat> bob2: heh
[12:51] <Lathiat> old hardware is fun
[12:51] <Lathiat> you end up dropping it to open it, then realise it was really much easier to get it open
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[12:52] <bob2> I'm kinda worried it will topple and destroy my x40
[12:52] <bob2> it must weight 20 kilos
[12:52] <JaneW> AndyFitz,: oh yes, that was when I was evangelising that guy in the elevator!
[12:53] <AndyFitz> good work.  10 points
[12:53] <mjg59> bob2: Silly. The X40 has an aura of magic protection.
[12:53] <JaneW> AndyFitz: thanks - I didn;t realise I had an audience though ;)
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[12:57] <AndyFitz> JaneW,  its been posted on his blog and on  planet.linuxaustralia  http://www.bytebot.net/blog/archives/2005/05/02/ole-ole-ole-ubuntu-boleh
[12:59] <Lathiat> tseng: qemu 0.7.0 has support to run x86-64, might be usefull?
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[01:00] <Nafallo> morning all
[01:01] <bob2> jesus this hp likes to beep a lot during boot
[01:01] <bob2> beep for missing case
[01:01] <bob2> beep for missing keyboard
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[01:01] <bob2> beep because it's a thursday
=== Lathiat grins at bob2
[01:02] <Nafallo> hehe
[01:02] <bob2> "buffer i/o error on device hdc"
[01:02] <bob2> that sounds bad
[01:03] <Nafallo> bob2: it didn't beep for that?
[01:03] <bob2> Nafallo: a beep is an unfair description
[01:03] <bob2> it was more like a rising crescendo of beeps
[01:03] <bob2> a symphony of annoyingness
[01:03] <bob2> an aria of irritation
[01:04] <Nafallo> *s* that's why I haven't that cable plugged in ;-)
[01:04] <bob2> oh, it has a flashing red DANGER DANGER WILL ROBINSON led on the front, too
[01:05] <bob2> hp kayak: the server for people who can't read textual errors
[01:05] <Nafallo> lol
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[01:14] <bob2> wow, it even booted ok
[01:14] <bob2> and let me format the disk and everything
[01:15] <seb128> elmo_: around? libgnomedb ftbfs because libgda2-3 is not-installable ... is that because that's an universe package? Any way to move it to main?
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[01:35] <robtaylor_> anyone know anything about the status of using LVM for root?
[01:36] <robtaylor_> (partition)
[01:36] <ajmitch_> works fine for me since at least mid-way through the hoary cycle
[01:37] <ajmitch_> the warty installer didn't support lvm2, but hoary does
[01:37] <robtaylor_> ooh
=== Kamion doesn't remember the change that added lvm2 support
[01:37] <Kamion> could've been a sync from Debian I guess - I thought warty supported lvm2 though
[01:38] <Kamion> but anyway, LVM for root is usually more a matter of careful bootloader configuration than anything else
[01:38] <ajmitch_> ah yes, I do have a separate small /boot, iirc
[01:41] <cc> AndyFitz, JaneW : of course, it was on planet fedora. that makes it all hte more fun :)
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[01:43] <JaneW> hi cc
[01:43] <cc> hey, hey JaneW 
[01:48] <JaneW> cc: thanks for including me in your - post on every web page on the web campaign ;)
[01:48] <JaneW> cc: btw do any more specs need editting?
[01:48] <JaneW> I am pretty busy but could still help out
[01:49] <JaneW> or editing even
[01:49] <JaneW> of course spelling/typing is not my personal strong point, but I can spot other's errors...
[01:52] <dholbach> ok... i'm out... see you later
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[01:53] <robtaylor_> Kamion: ah, that makes sense
[01:55] <JaneW> who moderates the ubuntu-devel mailing list?
[01:56] <Simira> Isn't that Jeff? Waugh, I mean
[02:01] <Mithrandir> yeah, jdub does that
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[02:05] <cc> JaneW: do i have more that need editing, no. but i'd gladly look at more i'm sure
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[02:12] <JaneW> ok thankis, cos I sent a msg earlier and it's been detained...
[02:12] <JaneW> says I am not subscribed...
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=== JaneW is still feeling slightly anxious after migrating to Ubuntu... like I don;t have everything taken care of and buttoned down, and like I am not completely in control
[02:15] <JaneW> was there a 'psychological effects of a w32 to Ubuntu migration' BOF?
[02:17] <Mithrandir> JaneW: no, since most people have migrated from Debian or similar to Ubuntu. ;)
[02:17] <Simira> :D
[02:17] <Zomb> I think you should care more about upgrade path from Woody, btw.
[02:19] <Mithrandir> Zomb: bugs and patches accepted. :)
[02:19] <ogra> Zomb, whats wrong with the upgradepath from woody ?
[02:20] <JaneW> Mithrandir,: I gather that is easier and less like flinging yourself off a clifff then?
[02:20] <Zomb> it failes on some places, I remember 3-5 file overwrite problems and the lilo bug from Sid
=== ogra grins about a redhat mail.... they want to build a hardware database....
[02:21] <Mithrandir> JaneW: I think so, yes.
[02:21] <Mithrandir> JaneW: what's scary ATM?
[02:21] <ogra> Zomb, after following the upgrde notes ?
[02:21] <ogra> Zomb, remember, we only support woody->warty
[02:21] <Zomb> there only notes for woody-warty
[02:22] <ogra> Zomb, yep
[02:22] <Zomb> that sucks
[02:22] <ogra> Zomb, because you shouldnt do woody->hoary... do woody->warty->hoary if you want a sane upgrade
[02:23] <Zomb> as said, that sucks. You expect people to install gigabytes of data just to reinstall it again.
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[02:25] <ogra> Zomb, woody is simply to old for a direct woody->hoary upgrade, to many changes
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[02:27] <Zomb> maybe. I don't remember the details but every time I have hit a file overwrite error it was clear: this one can have been fixed easily. Woody->Sarge upgrades are also supported (less or more).
[02:27] <Kamion> Zomb: we went through a fair bit of effort for both woody->warty and warty->hoary; but you start hitting diminishing returns after a point
[02:27] <cc> JaneW: if it helps, i've held of my migration as well. i'm still being a little cautious
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[02:32] <JaneW> cc: thanks ! now you tell me
[02:32] <ogra> yeah kickoff, thanks JaneW 
[02:35] <JaneW> ogra: I sent that hours ago - was stuck in the moderator queue, but I managed to bypass now ;)
[02:35] <ogra> ah :)
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[02:38] <lamont> moo
[02:39] <ogra> morning lamont 
[02:39] <JaneW> mooning
[02:41] <Simira> JaneW: What did you use before Ubuntu?
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[02:43] <tseng|work> hey does anyone know an rss feed for ubuntu-security?
[02:44] <tseng|work> the gmane one seems broken
[02:49] <mvirkkil> jdub: Does planetplanet use plain pickle for caching?
[02:50] <tseng|work> hi lamont
[02:51] <dilinger> good morning all
[02:51] <lamont> morning dilinger 
[02:54] <lamont> kids->school
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[02:57] <JaneW> Simira: windows (XP most recently)
[02:58] <JaneW> Simira: did you see my pics? I am in there...
[02:58] <Simira> JaneW: ok. No, I didn't see your pics. Where?
[02:58] <Simira> JaneW: I still use XP, on my desktop computer
[02:58] <Simira> (don't tell anyone)
[02:59] <tseng|work> :'(
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[03:02] <Simira> ah
[03:02] <Simira> JaneW: are you working with Charles?
[03:02] <JaneW> http://community.webshots.com/album/338849189afiQFQ
[03:02] <Simira> hey, chmj and Charles are the same!
[03:02] <JaneW> Simira: yes I am, though I have been working from home this week
[03:03] <chmj> O.o
[03:03] <Simira> JaneW: I found it
[03:03] <Simira> ok
[03:03] <JaneW> Simira: yes he changed from d3vic3 at UDU
[03:03] <Simira> chmj: you probably don't remember me. We barely met in MAtaro
[03:03] <chmj> Simira: yeah, I don't
[03:03] <Simira> JaneW: I'm looking forward to meet you on the next conf
[03:04] <JaneW> Simira: ditto
[03:04] <ogra> ubuntu women power :)
[03:04] <JaneW> Simira: you also in Norway?
[03:04] <JaneW> Simira: I hope your real name isn't Jane though ;)
[03:04] <Simira> JaneW: yes, I'm kind of Tollef's fianc, and my name is Karianne :)
[03:04] <JaneW> else if it is, we'll have to make it a policy to only hire females with the name Jane
[03:04] <Simira> hehe
[03:05] <ogra> Simira, kind of ???
=== JaneW was also wondering
[03:05] <JaneW> nice name ;)
[03:05] <Simira> ogra: oh, it's just a way of speaking
[03:05] <ogra> heh
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[03:05] <Simira> JaneW: yes, please just call me Simira irl if you can't pronounce it ;p
[03:05] <Mithrandir> she wore her ring this morning at least, so unless there's somehting she hasn't told me.. :P
[03:06] <ogra> lol
[03:06] <JaneW> I think Karianne is easier to say IMHO
[03:06] <Simira> JaneW: I'm one of those not-getting-paid to work on Ubuntu. I'm the head of LoCo and Translation team in Norway. :-)
[03:06] <JaneW> cool
[03:06] <Simira> JaneW: Ok, some have problems with it. It's almost like Marianne, though.
[03:07] <JaneW> pronounced carry anne right?
[03:07] <Simira> yes
[03:07] <JaneW> k
[03:07] <Simira> JaneW: I'm primarily a XP user (daily), but my web/file/mailserver are hoary and my laptop is dualbooting with breezy/xp
[03:07] <Simira> which reminds me I have to find a decent windows pgp client
=== JaneW still has an XP partition to escape to if it all gets too much ;)
[03:08] <Simira> JaneW: nothing to be ashamed of. I still turn to XP when I get stuck in Ubuntu and want things done nice and easy. ;p
[03:08] <Simira> rather than getting help from Tollef :p
[03:08] <Lathiat> i must be lucky or something
[03:09] <Simira> Lathiat: what have you done? Or haven't?
[03:09] <cc> Mithrandir: hey, any leads to your masters project on multiarch stuff and how its being correctly implemented?
[03:09] <Lathiat> (i have never needed windows for anything of late)
[03:10] <Simira> cc: ah, I saw your mail, yes. Nice :)
[03:10] <Mithrandir> cc: http://err.no/debian/amd64-multiarch-3 is the latest proposal with some links; http://err.no/ntnu/thesis/report-multiarch/doc/report.pdf is the current state of my thesis
[03:10] <cc> Simira: this being the sounder one? 
[03:10] <cc> Mithrandir: thanks, a lot
[03:10] <Simira> cc: yup
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[03:11] <Lathiat> i see a use for having x86 and x86-64 co-instaleld
[03:12] <Lathiat> btu why would you want more co-installed?
[03:12] <Simira> JaneW: But you have a pgp key, right?
[03:12] <Mithrandir> Lathiat: some architectures support more, and you might want to have linux and netbsd, x86-64 and i386 at the same time, for instance.
[03:12] <Simira> gpg, even
[03:12] <Lathiat> linux and netbsd?
[03:12] <mjg59> Lathiat: Imagine ppc64, ppc and x86
[03:13] <Mithrandir> Lathiat: or you might want ia64, i386 and x86_64 once ia64 gets the ability to run x86_64, which I think it will
[03:13] <Lathiat> mjg59: but i dont get why you would want x86 stuff installed on a ppc machine?
[03:13] <mjg59> Lathiat: Because it's not available for ppc?
[03:13] <Mithrandir> or sparc64, sparc32 for both linux and sunos
=== Lathiat is confused
[03:13] <Lathiat> why do i need x86 libraries on a ppc machine that can't exuecute them, why do i want sunos stuff installed and why do i want netbsd stuf finstalled?
[03:13] <mjg59> Lathiat: qemu lets you run x86 linux stuff on ppc quite happily
[03:14] <mjg59> And there's lots of x86 linux stuff that you can't get for ppc
[03:14] <Lathiat> mjg59: right, but doesnt that then handle the libraries too?
[03:14] <bob2> like valgrind
[03:14] <mjg59> Lathiat: The libraries need to be on your filesystem somewhere
[03:14] <svenl> Kamion: i did a build of the chrp kernel using mkvmlinuz on a installed ubuntu/hoary image and getting the hoary install CD initrd.gz.
[03:14] <Mithrandir> Lathiat: not all people like Linux; mjg59 is working on Debian NetBSD for instance, where an idea is to just port the base stuff and use the emulation layer for everything else.
[03:14] <Lathiat> mjg59: so qemu does emulate the 32bitness for the 32 libraries and uses 64bit libraries?
[03:14] <mjg59> Lathiat: ? Uh, no.
[03:15] <svenl> Kamion: but it tells me that it is not finding the kernel modules, due to version difference, which seems strange.
[03:15] <Lathiat> mjg59: when why do you need 32bit libraries installed?
[03:15] <Lathiat> sorry, im not getting something here, and i cant figure out what it is. :)
[03:15] <svenl> Kamion: /proc/version has 2.6.10-5.
[03:15] <JaneW> Simira: no I don't
[03:15] <mjg59> Lathiat: qemu lets you run x86 binaries on ppc. This requires x86 libraries.
[03:15] <Lathiat> mjg59: oh right, duh
[03:15] <Lathiat> how did i miss that
=== Lathiat smacks his head on the desk
[03:15] <Simira> JaneW: It's not so weird when you get used to it :)
[03:16] <Simira> Mithrandir: how did you avoid all those cameras?
[03:16] <Mithrandir> Simira: no idea.
[03:16] <Mithrandir> I probably vibe out.
[03:16] <Lathiat> mjg59: thanks. :)
[03:16] <Mithrandir> uhm, vibed out
[03:17] <bob2> Simira: he beat potential photographers!
[03:17] <Simira> bob2: he wouldn't
[03:17] <Mithrandir> bob2: I beat photographers who flashed me in the eye.
[03:18] <svenl> Kamion: mmm, ubuntu-installer got confused by the rc3 dvd i had in the player :)
[03:19] <Kamion> svenl: could you give me the exact error message rather than a paraphrase of it? I don't know this process off by heart.
[03:19] <svenl> Kamion: well, i was french localized :)
[03:20] <svenl> Kamion: i guess i used the cdrom initrd, which caused that.
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[03:21] <svenl> Mmm, gigabit ethernet is not yet working.
[03:23] <seb128> elmo_: around?
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[03:26] <cc> svenl: really? i thought i saw benh pass the patch on to akpm/linus already
[03:26] <svenl> cc: hoary has only 2.6.10, and the backport in ubuntu was broken.
[03:27] <cc> svenl: ah yes, of course. 
=== cc keeps on forgetting about stable kernel releases
[03:27] <svenl> cc: you are in the ubuntu boat too then ? 
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[03:28] <Lathiat> whats scott remnants irc nick?
[03:28] <tseng|work> keybuk
[03:28] <thom> keybuk
[03:28] <Lathiat> ah
[03:28] <cc> svenl: well, not quite, no. lets just say its something i'm finding really interesting at the moment, and i do plan on loading up and using at some stage soon
[03:29] <Kamion> svenl: what mkvmlinuz command did you use, so that I can try it out and track it down myself?
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=== JaneW needs to go
[03:29] <JaneW> bbl
[03:29] <Simira> bye, Kane
[03:29] <Simira> uhm
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[03:29] <Simira> Jane
[03:29] <Simira> 0_o
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[03:34] <Kamion> +shadow (1:4.0.3-31sarge3ubuntu1) breezy; urgency=low
[03:34] <Kamion> these version numbers are getting SILLY
[03:36] <Lathiat> you havent seen the ubuntu backports ones then
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[03:36] <ogra> argh....
[03:36] <ogra> he said IT
[03:36] <Lathiat> it?
[03:36] <ogra> the bad B word
[03:36] <Lathiat> oh, that
[03:37] <Kamion> Lathiat: I restrict myself to non-totally-broken distributions
[03:37] <Lathiat> Kamion: you mean sources
[03:37] <Kamion> backports are effectively a distribution
[03:37] <Lathiat> i guess
[03:37] <Kamion> albeit an overlay one
[03:38] <Kamion> certainly to the extent that those using them take on responsibility for supporting themselves
[03:38] <Lathiat> hrm new powernowds thread detection is borked
[03:40] <thom> Lathiat: howso?
[03:40] <Lathiat> thom: comes up on my cpu as 0
[03:40] <Lathiat> so it fails to start without -c
[03:40] <Lathiat> as threads < ncpus
[03:40] <Lathiat> trying to figure out why atm
[03:42] <svenl> Kamion: mkvmlinuz -o /path/to/file -i /path/to/initrd.gz -a chrp -z -v
[03:42] <Lathiat> also, returning an uninitialized num if (edx & 0x8000000) isnt true probably isnt good either
[03:42] <svenl> Kamion: hoary doesn't call mkvmlinuz or install it though, since it is assuming yaboot worked, which i didn't quite do in time.
[03:43] <svenl> Kamion: and the page telling about the OF variables doesn't seem to handle the OF aliases as debian's nobootloader did.
[03:44] <thom> Lathiat: can you file a bug, please
[03:44] <Lathiat> thom: ya, trying to see if i can figure it out first
[03:45] <Kamion> svenl: indeed, I didn't attempt to reimplement that part in yaboot-installer
[03:45] <svenl> Kamion: please do in the future, typing /pci/ide@.../disk@0,0:0 is a lot more complicated than just hd:0 :)
[03:45] <Lathiat> anyone here with a p4 with hyperthreading?
[03:45] <Kamion> svenl: enhancement bug please?
[03:45] <svenl> Mmm, actually, i should be able to boot it using yaboto directly here, will try that.
[03:46] <svenl> Kamion: i should file a bug you mean ? 
[03:46] <svenl> will do.
[03:46] <Kamion> I was just trying to get it done at all; since it wasn't something that was on my official list of things to do, I had to cut some corners
[03:46] <Kamion> svenl: yes, please
[03:46] <Lathiat> if so, can they grab http://bur.st/~lathiat/threading.c and paste me the output?
[03:46] <svenl> against yaboot-installer.
[03:46] <Kamion> yes
[03:46] <svenl> Kamion: do you need a patch or something ? Or can you handle from nobootloader ?
[03:47] <Kamion> svenl: the nobootloader code looks reasonably straightforward
[03:47] <Kamion> so I can probably handle it
[03:48] <svenl> I can just copy the code from nobootloader into the bug report for documentation purpose.
[03:48] <svenl> Kamion: if i had installed as expert, i would have had to chose nobootloader instead of yaboot-installer ? 
[03:49] <svenl> Kamion: in that case, maybe we should modify nobootloader to do the mkvmlinuz call thingy ? 
[03:51] <Kamion> I don't like mkvmlinuz; I'd much rather have a sane bootloader :)
[03:51] <Kamion> (well, sane-ish)
[03:52] <Kamion> I'm tempted to switch Pegasos to grub2
[03:52] <svenl> Kamion: mkvmlinuz is sane.
[03:52] <Kamion> not by comparison. :)
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[03:52] <svenl> Kamion: it is real kernel code, and is the default on real ppc hardware for netbooting.
[03:52] <Kamion> it's 2005, damnit, bootloaders should be able to assemble stuff
[03:53] <svenl> real ppc hardware meaning IBM stuff i guess :)
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[03:53] <svenl> Kamion: for netbooting, it bears no comparison to the way yaboot works. you have only to put a single file in your tftp served dir, and boot it.
[03:54] <Kamion> I'm happy to make it work but I don't think it should be the installation default
[03:54] <Kamion> if it's at all possible to have any other solution
[03:54] <svenl> Kamion: well, nobootloader is not the default.
[03:54] <svenl> yaboot-installer is.
[03:54] <Kamion> true
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[03:54] <svenl> so it would only be a fallback for expert mode or whatever.
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[03:55] <svenl> but it would sound strange to fall back to expert mode, chose nobootloader, have it tell you to boot boot/vmlinuz-2.6.10-5-powerpc or whatever, and this kernel not being present :)
[03:56] <balor> I'm getting some strange agpgart errors with today's Breezy "[drm:drm_fill_in_dev]  *ERROR* Cannot initialize the agpgart module.".  Thus I can't get DRI working.
[03:56] <Kamion> seems reasonable for it to make sure that file exists, yes
[03:57] <svenl> Kamion: will fill another bug report about this.
[03:57] <Kamion> I have an incredibly large number of breezy goals though - if anyone else can do it, I'm happy to help
[03:57] <balor> I'm running an Intel 865G with the latest BIOS patches.  Can anyone speculate as to why it can't ceate the dev entries?
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[03:58] <thom> balor: support questions in #ubuntu, please
=== nullaresnata [~henriquem@cb-217-129-175-184.netvisao.pt]  has left #ubuntu-devel ["sa."] 
[03:59] <svenl> Kamion: well. I may do it, but filling a bug report makes sure it doesn't get forgotten.
[03:59] <balor> thom: It's not really a support question.  I think there's a bug in the module loading.
[03:59] <Kamion> svenl: yeah, absolutely
[03:59] <balor> thom: But I'll try there anyway...sorry
[04:00] <Lathiat> anyone here with a pentium-m cpu? 
[04:00] <Kamion> svenl: this cycle is probably going to be me realising that I can't write all the code myself any more, that's all :(
[04:00] <tseng|work> Lathiat: yes?
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[04:00] <Lathiat> tseng|work: can you compile/run/paste results of http://bur.st/~lathiat/threading.c
[04:00] <Lathiat> tseng|work: need to run as root
[04:00] <tseng|work> its at home
[04:00] <Lathiat> actually, you dont
[04:01] <Lathiat> tseng|work: oh, ok
[04:01] <svenl> Kamion: hehe.
[04:02] <Kamion> svenl: mkvmlinuz worked fine for me when I added '-r 2.6.10-5-powerpc' to the arguments
[04:02] <Kamion> (I was running it in a chroot so the default was bound to fail anyway)
[04:02] <svenl> Kamion: anyway, we should have an OF with yaboot/grub2 support and nvram editing from linux well before breezy anyway.
[04:02] <svenl> Kamion: ok.
[04:02] <Kamion> svenl: using -k /path/to/kernel works too
[04:02] <Kamion> nvram editing> woohoo#
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[04:03] <svenl> Kamion: i think you should do -k /path/to/kernel instead of -r.
[04:03] <svenl> That was what Jens said anyway.
[04:05] <svenl> Kamion: nobootloader does get called after the kernel has been installed, so we would need to dpkg-reconfigure linux-image, or call mkvmlinuz by hand, right ? 
[04:07] <svenl> Arg.
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[04:08] <svenl> ubuntu/hoary's X doesn't respect me chosing french language but us keyboard, and it probably did chose macintosh and not pc105 too.
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[04:11] <Kamion> svenl: calling mkvmlinuz by hand would seem straightforward/reasonable enough
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[04:18] <svenl> Kamion: indeed.
[04:19] <svenl> Kamion: you need only to call it the same way kernel-package's postinst call it.
[04:20] <svenl> Kamion: i wonder how the mkvmlinuz debconf question would be called though, maybe nobootloader could preseed it to mkvmlinuz.
[04:22] <Kamion> it shouldn't be running at a priority high enough to be seen anyway
[04:22] <Kamion> if it is, we'll have to clobber it in Ubuntu
[04:22] <Kamion> one way or another
[04:24] <svenl> Kamion: it is running in priority medium i think, but you will see it in expert mode i guess.
[04:25] <svenl> Kamion: the thing is that it should default to yaboot on pegasos once the firmware is released, but if you chose nobootloader over yaboot-installer, you want it to default to mkvmlinuz and not yaboot.
[04:26] <Kamion> it's not rocket science to tweak :)
[04:27] <svenl> Mmm, trying to boot yaboot directly gets me :
[04:27] <svenl> Amiga partition table corrupted at block 0
[04:27] <Lathiat> thom: bug filed, with possible patch
[04:27] <svenl> block type is not partition but 00000000
[04:27] <thom> k, thanks
[04:27] <svenl> I wonder if this is our OF or yaboot, let me check ...
[04:29] <svenl> It is yaboot.
=== svenl wonders why.
[04:29] <svenl> This used to work :/
[04:30] <Lathiat> thom: the patch cant hurt at the worst, and seems to fix all situations of return values I've seen
[04:30] <doko> chmj: pan is already fixed and uploaded
[04:31] <chmj> doko: so i have noticed 
[04:36] <bluefoxicy> ok
[04:36] <bluefoxicy> why the HELL don't +, =, -, and _ work in synaptic?!
=== bluefoxicy is right-clicking one of like 19 packages at a time to remove residual configs.
[04:38] <Lathiat> bluefoxicy: eh?
[04:40] <ogra> bluefoxicy, synaptic can do multiple select ....
=== bluefoxicy selects all, right click. . . mark for installation?
[04:40] <bluefoxicy> no.
[04:41] <bluefoxicy> oh geeze if it selects one that's marked it'll grey the option x.x
[04:41] <bluefoxicy> ogra:  I still have to use this annoying pointing device.
[04:41] <ogra> bluefoxicy, its a gui tool.... use aptitude if you dont like mice
[04:42] <bluefoxicy> ogra:  press ctrl+t :)
[04:47] <doko> elmo_: please import perl from unstable, the security patches are applied in the Debian version
[04:48] <doko> elmo_: please import libunwind from experimental
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[05:07] <jani> seb128 ping
[05:07] <seb128> pong
[05:07] <jani> seb128, evince does not built, in case you missed it :)
[05:07] <jani> missing poppler-glib something
[05:08] <seb128> thanks but there is a lot to do, I'll do a second pass on ftbfs soon
[05:08] <jani> ok :)
[05:08] <seb128> bah, not an evince bug
[05:08] <Lathiat> heh
[05:09] <seb128> jani: archive issue
[05:09] <jani> build infrastructure you mean?
[05:09] <seb128> jani: it'll be solved when the appropriate package are moved to main
[05:09] <jani> ok thanks
[05:09] <seb128> jani: no, 'archive', like archive.ubuntu.com
[05:10] <seb128> evince is main and the new poppler part universe (that's by default)
[05:10] <seb128> need to be moved to main
[05:10] <jani> got it
[05:10] <seb128> there is some similar issues, that will be solved soon, but not by me
[05:10] <seb128> you just have to wait, sorry for the delay
[05:11] <jani> np
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[05:25] <Burgundavia> where should I file synaptic bugs? ours or some upstream?
[05:27] <Lathiat> bugzilla.ubuntu.com
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=== hunger_ hates ubuntu's start/stop scripts. Their output is rather erratic...
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[05:57] <hunger> powernowd is NOT started, but the start/stop script thinks that is OK:-(
[05:57] <Kamion> elmo_: could you arrange for restricted/debian-installer/* to show up in dists/*/Release, please?
[05:57] <Kamion> elmo_: it looks like ziyi has main rather hardcoded when looking for */debian-installer sections at the moment
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[06:08] <Simira> pancakes!
[06:13] <mjg59> hunger: Why is it not started?
[06:13] <hunger> mjg59: Dunno... worked till today.
[06:14] <thom> hunger: are you on breezy, and did you update recently?
[06:14] <hunger> mjg59: But I figured out why this sucky mix oy lsb/debian style start/stop script won't work.
[06:14] <hunger> thom: I did and I updated today.
[06:15] <thom> you're probably seeing 10446
[06:15] <hunger> thom: Looks like bug10446 is biting me:-)
[06:16] <hunger> thom: Yeah, just saw you had that reported.
[06:16] <hunger> thom: Does /etc/init.d/powernowd start claim that it works for you?
[06:16] <wasabi> anybody familiar with programming against synaptic (such as how update-manager does)
[06:17] <hunger> thom: Aka. do you get an [ ok ] ?
[06:17] <Lathiat> hunger: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10446
[06:17] <thom> hunger: the only box i have atm (laptop's in for servicing) doesn't support powernow (old amd64)
[06:17] <Lathiat> hunger: (known bug)
[06:18] <Lathiat> thom: what cpu is your laptop?
[06:18] <Lathiat> it only sems to show up on pentium-m
[06:18] <Lathiat> altho some other cpus get -ve values
[06:18] <Lathiat> which are not handled either
[06:19] <thom> Lathiat: p-m (but like i say, it's at ibm)
=== Lathiat nods
[06:20] <thom> Lathiat: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=306896
[06:20] <hunger> Lathiat: P4.
[06:21] <hunger> Lathiat: Have a look at #10457 as well: the [ ok ]  issue (incl. patch).
[06:22] <Lathiat> thom: righto
[06:22] <zyga> wasabi: what do you want to do?
[06:22] <wasabi> zyga, append a new source in a somewhat safe manner. Only if the same source doesnt' already exist, etc.
[06:22] <wasabi> And then invoke synaptic to a) update the sources and b) install some packages
[06:23] <zyga> wasabi: if you want to do that in python it's not that complicated and you could just use update manager's source 
[06:23] <Lathiat> heh intel not following their own spec, theres a surprise.
=== hunger is away.
[06:23] <wasabi> good idea.
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[06:23] <zyga> wasabi: by install do you mean - gui allowing people to choose stuff?
[06:23] <wasabi> no.
[06:23] <wasabi> I am implementing a test file hanlder for .apt files
[06:23] <zyga> wasabi: automated?
[06:23] <wasabi> Yes.
[06:24] <wasabi> The file, when double clicked, will add some sources then install some packages.
[06:24] <zyga> wasabi: then update manager already has everything you need
[06:24] <wasabi> super
[06:24] <zyga> wasabi: take a look at current source, I may help you if you're lost or don't want to read everything
[06:24] <zyga> wasabi: one moment
[06:24] <wasabi> im in it now
[06:25] <wasabi> I hope for this to make it somewhat easy for third partities to distribute packages targetting debian-based distros to end users.
[06:25] <zyga> wasabi: aptsources.py.in is interesting for you
[06:25] <zyga> wasabi: oh great, different approach to autopackage :)
[06:26] <wasabi> Basically just provide a link to SuperCoolProgram.apt on their web site, and have it offer to install it.
[06:26] <wasabi> Yeah.
[06:26] <wasabi> Just WAY SIMPLIER
[06:26] <thom> hunger: that's a broken patch, and anyway the way it works currently is by design. also, please use diff -u when submitting patches
[06:26] <Burgundavia> and a huge security nightmare
[06:26] <Burgundavia> wasabi, there is some discussion is making installing easier
[06:26] <wasabi> No more a security nightmare than every other OS ever.
[06:26] <Burgundavia> see the UDU wiki
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[06:26] <Burgundavia> wasabi, we need to be better than the others, not the same
[06:27] <wasabi> There really is no other possible means to the end really.
[06:27] <wasabi> Users want to install software from the internet. That's it.
[06:27] <zyga> wasabi: and update-manager.in
[06:27] <wasabi> Either we let them, or we don't.
[06:27] <zyga> wasabi: of course you don't need 80% of it
[06:28] <wasabi> The only way to make it "secure" is to wrap it in SELinux or something similar.
[06:28] <wasabi> Or try to do what MS wanted to do, sign everything with a central authority.
[06:28] <wasabi> which obviously isn't going to work.
[06:28] <zyga> wasabi: if the installer gets root and asks internally for every permission then selinux is not going to help, trusted sources are but that's a different story
[06:28] <wasabi> exactly.
[06:29] <wasabi> I hope to have the .apt file contain a number of sections in traditional dpkg tag file format. Each section has a Distro and/or Arch section, Binary-Archives, source-archives, then a list of packages to install.
[06:29] <wasabi> And probably a public key too for apt-secure.
[06:29] <wasabi> Thing just runs thru it, adds the sources, adds the keys, and tells synaptic to go for it.
[06:30] <zyga> wasabi: okay if you need anything else make sure irssi will hilight your line for me, I'm reading a book a few meters away
[06:30] <wasabi> ok. thanks. ;0
[06:31] <wasabi> I see, that's pretty easy.
[06:38] <zyga> wasabi: re... I just had a cool idea
[06:38] <zyga> wasabi: instead of doing extra meta packages why not do something compleatly different 
[06:38] <wasabi> extra meta packages?
[06:39] <zyga> wasabi: .pakackage in mind (autopackage)
[06:39] <wasabi> Oh. It's not a meta pacakge.
[06:39] <wasabi> At all.
[06:39] <zyga> wasabi: I know ;-)
[06:39] <zyga> wasabi: anyway just listen for a moment
[06:39] <wasabi> k
[06:39] <zyga> two possible scenarios - open source stuff and close source stuff
[06:39] <wasabi> ok.
[06:40] <zyga> oss first
[06:40] <zyga> let's say I want to get latest and gratest gaim 
[06:40] <wasabi> ok.
[06:40] <zyga> greatest even 
[06:40] <zyga> (assuming .desktop compatible environment)
[06:40] <wasabi> ok.
[06:41] <zyga> I click 'start-or-something' -> internet -> gaim 
[06:41] <zyga> it's there already even though it's not installed
[06:41] <wasabi> I get it, that's neat, I like the idea.
[06:41] <wasabi> But I think it's seperate to this idea. ;)
[06:41] <zyga> a little
[06:42] <zyga> it becomes complicated more for close source stuff
[06:42] <wasabi> The idea is to make apt decentralized.
[06:42] <wasabi> Right now it isn't, mostly because people aren't proficcient at using it.
[06:42] <wasabi> And they shouldn't be.
[06:42] <zyga> because you still need the package installer and .desktop file that will ivoke it somehow
[06:42] <wasabi> Yup.
[06:42] <wasabi> I think a button on a web page
[06:42] <wasabi> "Install Software Now!"
[06:42] <wasabi> Is pretty rad.
[06:43] <zyga> but imagine .desktop and .png files as only two things needed for custom app installation :-)
[06:43] <Burgundavia> the advantage of a centralized system is that you can say "here is all the games on offer"
[06:43] <Burgundavia> your system cannot do that
[06:43] <wasabi> For open source software, like, gaim could publish CVS snapshots On Ever Checkin, if they wanted to.
[06:43] <wasabi> Burgundavia, my system isn't designed to.
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[06:43] <zyga> run = install-magic http://www.vendor.com/your-game-or-something
[06:44] <wasabi> The use case of "my system" is pretty damned simple.
[06:44] <Burgundavia> wasabi, have you read www.ubuntu.com/wiki/WinningTheDesktop ?
[06:44] <wasabi> It's just about making it easy for users to install stuff using apt without editing text files.
[06:45] <zyga> Burgundavia: the problem is non free stuff as 99% games are are not going to be in any repository
[06:46] <Burgundavia> wasabi, see http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/PackageManagementRoadmap
=== zyga wonders if anyone bough doom3 for linux
[06:46] <Burgundavia> and http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/FindingPackages
[06:46] <zyga> how did they manage the installer and such?
[06:46] <wasabi>  mime-type of packages should be used: find a application to work with that mime type and install it (see also FindingPackages).
[06:46] <wasabi> That is potentially awesome.
[06:46] <Burgundavia> I have a copied windows install
[06:46] <zyga> Burgundavia: so you need a windows box to install it first?
[06:47] <Burgundavia> zyga, I don't think so
[06:47] <jnc> hey um... is Breezy usable?
[06:47] <jnc> i understand it might break now and then
[06:47] <Burgundavia> I have a pirate version that a friend copied to me
[06:47] <zyga> jnc: hey, that depends but generally yes :-)
[06:47] <Burgundavia> I noticed it installs the linux binaries along with, so I can run it
[06:47] <zyga> jnc: and that answers both questions really :-)
[06:47] <jnc> okay.   so like you don't forsee any changes that would totally fubar the system and render apt unworkable?
[06:47] <Burgundavia> jnc, no
[06:48] <jnc> a'right.
[06:48] <Burgundavia> jnc, I see not having X work
[06:48] <jnc> thanks
[06:48] <zyga> jnc: hoary once broke network stuff for an hour
[06:48] <jnc> X not working is not the end of the world
[06:48] <zyga> jnc: but it's usable IMHO :-)
[06:48] <jnc> that'd be like using Microsoft or the old Apple OSes
[06:48] <jnc> !@#t happens.
[06:49] <zyga> jnc: windows has virtual terminals that help when X crashes, cool..
[06:49] <zyga> ;-)
[06:49] <jnc> zyga: what, you never ran win32s on top of DOS to virtualize two copies of doom I running at the same time ?
[06:49] <jnc> tsk tsk
=== jnc ;)
[06:50] <zyga> jnc: doom doesn't run on sparc - sorry
[06:50] <jnc> touche!
[06:50] <zyga> ah but I'm silly
[06:50] <zyga> doom3 does not ;-)
[06:52] <jnc> going from Hoary -> breezy, are there any special procautions when making the switch (have there been changes not covered by dpkg?)
[06:53] <zyga> jnc: some things don't work - if you need one of them - wait
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[06:53] <Burgundavia> does anyone have a list of stuff still borked?
[06:54] <jnc> i dig it.
[06:54] <zyga> Burgundavia: gcj, ooo  (or ooo2, cannot remember ATM)
[06:54] <zyga> Burgundavia: gcj needs g++ 4.0 which AFAIK it will not get untill abi change
[06:55] <wasabi> Okay here's another question.
[06:55] <wasabi> I am looking for something that identifies the distro.
[06:55] <wasabi> in an apt based system.
[06:55] <wasabi> the word "hoary" for instance.
[06:55] <Lathiat> wasabi: /etc/lsb-release
[06:55] <wasabi> or "sid".
[06:55] <Lathiat> well, on ubuntu
[06:55] <wasabi> Ahh hah!
[06:55] <Lathiat> debian has /etc/debian_verson
[06:55] <Lathiat> debian has /etc/debian_version
[06:55] <Lathiat> debian doesnt have lsb-release tho
[06:55] <wasabi> Hmm.
[06:55] <wasabi> I can mandate lsb-release.
[06:56] <Burgundavia> /etc/issue
[06:56] <wasabi> Since *I* use ubuntu. :0
[06:56] <zyga> standards - so many to choose from ;-)
[06:56] <Lathiat> actually ubuntu has /etc/debian_version
[06:56] <Lathiat> assumedly for compatibilty
[06:56] <Lathiat> (but it says the debian version)
[06:56] <wasabi> Okay the two words Ubuntu and hoary. What would they be called. The distro and the ?
[06:56] <Kamion> don't look at /etc/lsb-release
[06:56] <jnc> release name
[06:56] <zyga> wasabi: release name?
[06:56] <Kamion> use the lsb_release command
[06:56] <Lathiat> release name
[06:57] <jnc> zyga: bwahaha.
[06:57] <wasabi> Oooh.
[06:57] <Kamion> wasabi: formally "suite"
[06:57] <Lathiat> Kamion: ahh, didnt know about that
[06:57] <wasabi> I like tha tcommand
[06:57] <Kamion> though that's basically internal archive terminology
[06:57] <Kamion> release name or release codename would be usual
[06:57] <zyga> Kamion: N/A 
[06:57] <wasabi> Kamion, did you hear what I was working on? If you knew the context you might have an idea.
[06:57] <Lathiat> zyga: lsb_release -a
[06:57] <Kamion> zyga: so read --help
[06:58] <Kamion> wasabi: I heard, I don't want to be involved
[06:58] <wasabi> =)
[06:58] <Kamion> wasabi: I've argued against it in the past; I consider I've said my piece
[06:58] <wasabi> What would you argue for?
[06:58] <wasabi> Or are you one of those "i don't carers"
[06:58] <Kamion> "I consider I've said my piece"
=== zyga is enlightened
[06:58] <Kamion> I'm not having the same argument every week
[06:59] <Kamion> however we specced out a less bad solution at UDU
[06:59] <ogra> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/FindingPackages
[07:00] <wasabi> Hmm. That doesn't really cover the same use cases.
[07:00] <wasabi> Oh I see it does.
[07:00] <wasabi> goal 2!
[07:00] <Kamion> right, FindingPackages is much better than teaching people that a web browser is a good thing to use to install software
[07:01] <wasabi> I don't see the difference.
[07:01] <wasabi> from the page
[07:01] <wasabi> file with some meta-information needs to be provided by launchpad when the user clicks on a "Install" button with his web browser.
[07:01] <Kamion> that slipped by me; I would have argued against that if I'd heard it
[07:02] <wasabi> Well I think the main idea is that users should be able to install stuff *we* haven't vetted.
[07:02] <Kamion> as long as the means is *not* a web browser
[07:02] <wasabi> How do they find the people without that?
[07:02] <Burgundavia> Kamion, I think goal 2 is within a web browser
[07:02] <wasabi> That's the only means of decentralized navigation we have.
[07:02] <Kamion> Burgundavia: yeah, I think goal 2 is misdesigned
[07:02] <wasabi> Maybe we should use gopher!
[07:02] <Burgundavia> Kamion, there is another goal for gnome-app-install
[07:02] <Burgundavia> Kamion, I happen to agree with you there
[07:02] <Lathiat> perhasp some sort signing
[07:02] <wasabi> The idea of gnome-app-install is good... but how do the apps get into it!
[07:03] <Lathiat> so that you guys have a database and a name and it tells them who the package being installed is from
[07:03] <Burgundavia> wasabi, they get drawn out of launchpad
[07:03] <wasabi> Burgundavia, and launchpad is what?
[07:03] <Kamion> sigh, I said I wouldn't get drawn into this again. gone.
[07:03] <Burgundavia> wasabi, canonicals new web based do everything thing
[07:03] <wasabi> Kamion, nobody would argue it over and over again if a solution for this most obvious usecase was presented. ;)
[07:03] <Burgundavia> there is one coming
[07:03] <Kamion> wasabi: I have many other problems to solve
[07:03] <wasabi> That's fine.
[07:03] <Burgundavia> gnome-app-install, being driven off of launchpad
[07:04] <wasabi> Burgundavia, and I can add my own stuff to launchpad?
[07:04] <wasabi> As an ISV.
[07:04] <thom> Kamion: world hunger, jetlag? ;-)
[07:04] <zyga> wasabi: I'm interested in the answer as well :-)
[07:05] <Burgundavia> wasabi, ask sabdfl/mdz
=== zyga was living under a rock lately and almost never heard of launchpad
[07:05] <wasabi> Well, I'm actually almost done with what I'm working on, so I'm going to give it a go.
[07:05] <wasabi> Since it's *so simple*
=== zyga thinks that pseudo-dir in menu that enables people to install common apps would be way better than gnome-app-installer though
[07:07] <Kamion> thom: :-)
[07:07] <Kamion> more like "kbd-chooser is broken and nobody noticed for two months)
[07:07] <Kamion> "
[07:08] <thom> Kamion: huh.
[07:08] <zyga> any .desktop and .menu (or whatever it's called) gurus here?
[07:09] <Kamion> wasabi: sorry to snap; debugging broken stuff makes me cranky. :)
[07:10] <wasabi> that's ok.
[07:10] <wasabi> i didn't take it that way
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[07:12] <wasabi> Wish there was a suitable API to check if a source existed in sources.list
[07:12] <wasabi> counting for odd spacing, etc.
[07:13] <zyga> wasabi: linear find will do
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[07:14] <zyga> jbailey: hello
[07:15] <jbailey> zyga: Hello!
[07:15] <jbailey> (and everyone else too)
[07:15] <wasabi> hi
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[07:16] <jbailey> Jerry!
[07:16] <Kamion> morning jbailey
[07:16] <jbailey> Colin!
[07:16] <jbailey> It's a party. =)
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[07:19] <wasabi> zyga, the thing is if there is a line: deb http://site/dir suite dist1 dist2, and what needs to be added is only dist2.
[07:19] <wasabi> It will add a second line for dist2, even though it is already included
[07:19] <jbailey> doko: Around?
[07:20] <doko> jbailey: yes
[07:20] <jbailey> doko: Did the testsuite finish fine?
[07:23] <doko> doko: yes, although I didn't test the 64bit binaries, running on a i386 machine
[07:24] <jbailey> doko: I didn't touch any of the libraries at all, I just removed the lkh headers.  I'll do a quick compare between the two to make sure, though.
[07:24] <jbailey> Assuming that's all good, I'll upload.
[07:24] <jbailey> Thanks for testing that. =)
[07:25] <jbailey> I do wonder if the whole amd64-libs package should just go away and we should setup biarch i386 stuff the same was sparc and s390 are done.
[07:25] <jbailey> (and presumably ppc64 will be done, too)
[07:29] <doko> nice, preparing the gcc upload orgy
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[07:31] <zyga> wasabi: re
[07:32] <zyga> wasabi: hmm?
[07:33] <jbailey> doko: Do you want the ppc64 glibc for that too?
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[07:37] <Kamion> wasabi: isn't that in libapt_pkg?
[07:37] <Kamion> libapt-pkg, sorry
[07:38] <Kamion> it certainly knows how to parse the file
[07:39] <Kamion> and that's exposed through python-apt (GetPkgSourceList)
[07:41] <doko> jbailey: can't really hurt ... so you do a glibc upload as well?
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=== Kamion goes to help out with election stuff
[07:48] <Kamion> probably not around for the rest of the evening
[07:55] <thom> Kamion: hope it goes well
[07:55] <doko> thom: is he getting married? ;-)
[07:56] <thom> doko: no, he's doing general elections stuffs 
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[08:08] <azeem_> this r0ml guy Ian is so fascinated about has blogged on installing Ubuntu: http://r0ml.net/blog/2005/04/20/new-laptop
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[08:11] <Lathiat> huzaah
[08:11] <Lathiat> his resolution only worked cus i got that bug fixed for those dell screens. :)
[08:11] <Lathiat> glad i did that before hoary released :)
[08:11] <Burgundavia> now he is going to tell his friends how great Ubuntu is
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[08:12] <Lathiat> i wish i could email him and point out that turning off the tapping feature is as easy as commenting out one line in xorg.conf (well, thats not exactly easy, but fairly trivial)
[08:12] <Lathiat> except he has no contact details on his page
=== Lathiat mumbles something about people misinforming people, notably the kind who dont know what they are talking about
[08:12] <Burgundavia> right
[08:13] <Burgundavia> he shouldn't have to comment out that line
[08:14] <Lathiat> yeh but it beats him trying to recompile his kernel
[08:14] <Burgundavia> what I am saying is that there should be a gui for it
[08:16] <azeem_> Lathiat: http://r0ml.blogs.com/about.html
[08:19] <thom> Burgundavia: daniels has some ideas as to how that should work
[08:19] <Lathiat> azeem_: cool
[08:19] <mjg59> Burgundavia: It's not actually easy to do
[08:19] <Burgundavia> thom, cool. did you get the url I sent you?
[08:19] <thom> yes, thanks
[08:20] <Burgundavia> cheers
[08:20] <mjg59> There's all sorts of nasty security issues
[08:21] <Burgundavia> oh?
[08:21] <mjg59> Well, if you want to control the pad directly
[08:21] <mjg59> Otherwise it's something that needs to hack xorg.conf and then restart X
[08:21] <Burgundavia> hmm
[08:22] <thom> (daniel wants to move the thing into an X config extension)
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[08:27] <MasterYoda> do ubuntu and debian actively work together?
[08:28] <Burgundavia> yes
[08:29] <mdz> morning
[08:29] <MasterYoda> what do they do together?
[08:29] <MasterYoda> will ubuntu's xorg go into debian? are the packages compatiable?
[08:29] <MasterYoda> do they work to keep the packages compatiable?
[08:33] <mdz> MasterYoda: yes, it is likely that Debian will adopt Ubuntu's xorg packages when they are ready to upgrade
[08:34] <MasterYoda> what about gnome 10?
[08:34] <MasterYoda> gnome 2.10....
[08:34] <mdz> gnome 2.10 is already in Debian experimental
[08:35] <ogra> morning
[08:36] <thom> mdz: hey, morning
[08:37] <MasterYoda> mdz: well yeah, but it's not the same as ubuntu's right?
[08:40] <mdz> thom: feeling better?
[08:41] <thom> mdz: much, thank you. i can walk again ;-)
[08:41] <dholbach> thom: what did you do?
[08:41] <mdz> MasterYoda: why would you say that?
[08:42] <MasterYoda> mdz: cause gnome on ubuntu looks different than on debian
[08:42] <mdz> MasterYoda: Debian has GNOME 2.8 in unstable (which is probably what you are running) and GNOME 2.10 in experimental
[08:42] <thom> dholbach: major sinus headaches
[08:42] <MasterYoda> mdz: right...
[08:42] <dholbach> thom: oh :-((((
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[08:44] <MasterYoda> mdz: but the packages are not the same...
[08:44] <MasterYoda> nevermind
[08:44] <thom> dholbach: gone now, so it's all good
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[08:54] <seb128> elmo_: around now? :)
[08:56] <elmo_> seb128: kind of - I was planning on coming back later unless it's urgent?
[08:56] <elmo_> [I've just done the gda thing, if it was that] 
=== jbailey stands in line for the "when elmo's back" queue.
[08:57] <jnc> hey....
[08:57] <jnc> no openoffice.org-evolution
[08:57] <jnc> what's gives?
[08:57] <seb128> elmo_: doing the same for poppler new binaries would rock but there is no hurry, thanks :)
[08:57] <seb128> jnc: I don't understand the question
[08:57] <jnc> it's missing from amd64
[08:58] <jnc> there's builds for powerpc and i386, but not amd64
[08:59] <jnc> seb128: the question might be, what prevents openoffice.org-evolution from being built for amd64 target arch?
[08:59] <jnc> http://packages.ubuntu.com/breezy/gnome/openoffice.org-evolution
[09:01] <seb128> jnc: no idea
[09:02] <jnc> okay going from those files (dsc, tarball, diffball)  what would i do to try building a package here
[09:02] <jnc> debmaker or something?   i don't build dpkgs all that often
[09:02] <seb128> ask Mithrandir, he probably knows
[09:03] <jnc> Mithrandir: hail!    how to attempt building 'openoffice.org-evolution' on amd64?
[09:03] <seb128> lamont: around?
[09:04] <jnc> it looks like no one attempted amd64
[09:04] <seb128> there is an openoffice.org-amd64
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[09:05] <jnc> hmm
[09:05] <jnc> i don't see it
[09:17] <Mithrandir> jnc: not, since it's an universe package, iirc
[09:18] <wasabi> an apt archive needs a place to put an image
[09:18] <Amaranth> what?
[09:19] <wasabi> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary/image.png or something similar.
[09:19] <wasabi> pondering third party repositories.
[09:19] <Amaranth> what use is that?
[09:20] <wasabi> Would be interesting to install third party software from apt, and have the repository show up in synaptic in a way that made it obvious what it was.
[09:20] <wasabi> Like, if commercial software distributors made their own apt repositories.
[09:21] <Amaranth> wasabi: I don't see commercial software makers setting up apt repositories any time soon
[09:21] <wasabi> Well let's fix that.
[09:21] <Amaranth> They'd probably move to autopackage before they'd do that.
[09:21] <Amaranth> Which imho is a better option, or at least will be.
[09:21] <wasabi> disagreed.
[09:22] <Amaranth> Why not?
[09:22] <wasabi> So complicated.
[09:22] <Amaranth> err
[09:22] <Amaranth> double clicking a file is complicated?
[09:22] <wasabi> the implementation behind it is.
[09:23] <Amaranth> but it's a lot simpler for users (double click vs editting sources.list)
[09:24] <wasabi> That's why im working on a very simple program to double click and edit sources.list. ;)
[09:24] <wasabi> I think I'm nearly done at 98 lines.
[09:24] <Amaranth> it edits sources.list automatically, gets the package, and then restores sources.list to it's original state?
[09:25] <wasabi> No need to restore it.
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[09:26] <Amaranth> this has a GUI?
[09:26] <wasabi> No... we already have GUIs
[09:27] <Amaranth> not as good as the one for autopackage :)
[09:27] <wasabi> Synaptic can be (and should be made better) for other reasons.
[09:28] <Amaranth> *shrug*
[09:28] <Amaranth> You're fighting an uphill battle though. Once autopackage gets rpm and dpkg integration it'll be that much better than your tool.
[09:29] <Amaranth> Because rpms for 4 different distros and 1-3 debs won't be needed anymore.
[09:29] <Mithrandir> Amaranth: that's reinventing the wheel; if you want something like that, use LSB packages.
[09:29] <mdz> let's not have the autopackage argument (again) here; we've been over it in depth on the mailing list
[09:30] <Amaranth> LSB only does so much
[09:30] <mdz> wasabi: you should talk to mvo about the repository icon idea
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[09:34] <jnc> Mithrandir: it's in the list of things to look into adding to the supported Ubuntu mix
[09:34] <jnc> not that it matters
[09:35] <Mithrandir> jnc: I'll veto it for amd64, since it would mean doing lots of more ia32-libs-style packaging.
[09:36] <Mithrandir> it's not really scalable to do that in the long run.
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[09:38] <mako> mdz: ututo-e is theoretically bsd/gentoo based + some stuff from suse
[09:47] <wasabi> mdz, i will be, mostly im in Code Mode right now. ;0
[09:49] <lamont> seb128: was hiding from you... whats up?
[09:50] <Mithrandir> azeem_: hi, any thoughts on getting a CVS snapshot of multisync with the gnokii support into breezy?
[09:50] <dholbach> lamont: some rebuilds i guess :-)
[09:50] <lamont> dholbach: sounds about right...
[09:50] <seb128> lamont: please kick gnomedb planner builds
[09:50] <dholbach> yes! planner! :-)
[09:50] <seb128> lamont: libgda2-3 has been moved from universe to main by elmo, now they should build
[09:51] <lamont> and gnumeric, of course./
[09:51] <lamont> given back
[09:51] <azeem_> Mithrandir: I'd prefer to kick the devs to release a new version, but they seem to be focused on opensync
[09:51] <Mithrandir> azeem_: what's opensync? :)
[09:51] <azeem_> the fd.o replacement
[09:53] <seb128> lamont: cool, thanks
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[09:54] <Mithrandir> azeem_: what's the current state of that?
[09:55] <azeem_> I am not sure, I think it is not on level with multisync yet, but catching up fast
[09:55] <Mithrandir> azeem_: do you think it's breezy material?
[09:56] <azeem_> I wouldn't count on it
[09:56] <Mithrandir> hm, ok.
[10:01] <mdz> `anthony: what up, dawg
[10:02] <jnc> Mithrandir: are you looking for native compilation before incl. Ooo?
[10:02] <jbailey> Ugh.  dpkg-divert and Replaces: don't seem to interact well.
[10:03] <Mithrandir> jnc: ooo2 is rumored to be vaguely 64-bit clean.  I might find time to help out with that so we can get rid of the whole ia32-libs mess
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[10:04] <jnc> Mithrandir: that's what i'd like to see also
[10:04] <Burgundavia> anybody get through to b.g.o ?
[10:05] <jnc> bugs.gentoo.org ? 
[10:05] <jnc> i'm a dev.  what do you need
[10:05] <jnc> (gentoo dev)
[10:05] <Burgundavia> gnome
[10:05] <Burgundavia> ok, thats odd
[10:05] <Burgundavia> now I got through
=== Burgundavia determines that it was user error
=== jbailey gives up and goes for lunch.
[10:10] <Burgundavia> seb128, ping
[10:11] <seb128> pong?
[10:12] <Burgundavia> seb128, I am digging throught b.g.o, looking for a similar bug, before I file dup. Regarding the copy dialog, when you already have a file at the dest. An option for showing the timestamp on each file
[10:12] <seb128> what is a timestamp?
[10:12] <seb128> why doing this?
[10:13] <Burgundavia> basically, say "file1" in folder1 was last editing yesterday. "file1" in folder2 was editing today. Do you want overwrite?
[10:13] <Treenaks> seb128: who are you and what did you do to seb128? ;)
[10:14] <seb128> Treenaks: asking for an user, not for me
[10:14] <seb128> Treenaks: "timestamp" doesn't really speak to lusers
[10:14] <seb128> Burgundavia: that's clutter for nothing imho
[10:15] <Burgundavia> seb128, timestamp saying when each file was last edited is clutter?
[10:15] <seb128> yep
=== Burgundavia wonders about seb128 and his sanity
[10:15] <seb128> if I copy a file over an another one that's on purpose
[10:15] <Burgundavia> what if I don't know?
[10:15] <Treenaks> seb128: how about it being in the "more info" arrow-opener
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[10:15] <seb128> Burgundavia: why not the size of the file rather?
[10:15] <dholbach> lamont: could it be the buildlogs are on another place or something?
[10:16] <Burgundavia> date is often a better indicator than size
[10:16] <seb128> dholbach: about?
[10:16] <Treenaks> seb128: sometimes you know you worked on a file yesterday or "last week"
[10:16] <dholbach> seb128: i tried some links on http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/byDate/today.html
[10:16] <Treenaks> seb128: but not how large it is
[10:16] <Burgundavia> and sometimes files shrink
[10:16] <Treenaks> seb128: saves you from opening both files and comparing
[10:16] <seb128> because you work this way
[10:17] <seb128> I know rather on the file properties than the date
[10:17] <lamont> dholbach: works for me....
[10:17] <seb128> BTW feel free to open a bug upstream
[10:17] <dholbach> lamont: hrm, now it works for me too
[10:17] <Burgundavia> seb128, I was wondering if a bug already existed
[10:17] <seb128> maybe
[10:17] <seb128> look on the closed bug too
[10:17] <seb128> maybe that's closed :)
[10:17] <Burgundavia> i doubt it
[10:18] <seb128> why?
[10:18] <seb128> I would close it I think :p
[10:18] <Burgundavia> because it is useful
[10:18] <seb128> that clutters the UI
[10:18] <Burgundavia> here is my use case: I have 2 presentations, one on a disk and one on a harddrive. If i just copy over, I have no idea which is newer
[10:18] <Burgundavia> unless I actually look at each
[10:19] <seb128> yeah, I understand the usecase
[10:19] <seb128> but that's not that common imho
[10:20] <seb128> ie: you don't want that displayed all the time
[10:20] <Burgundavia> this would only come up when a conflict occurs
[10:20] <Burgundavia> only in the "conflict while copying" dialog
[10:21] <seb128> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=47893
[10:22] <Burgundavia> open since 2001!!!
[10:22] <lamont> jbailey: you around?
[10:23] <Burgundavia> seb128, I might even have to learn how to code to fix it myself
[10:23] <seb128> coding is easy
[10:24] <seb128> coming with a good UI for that is what need the work
[10:24] <Burgundavia> ok
[10:24] <Burgundavia> I will do some hacking right now on that
[10:27] <seb128> tseng: gnomedb fixed
=== lamont is reminded of just how much he _HATES_ things like cdbs
[10:28] <dholbach> lamont: he went out for lunch
=== dholbach is quite fond of cdbs :-)
=== lamont is weaving through a maze of cdbs trying to figure out why it's deciding to not build anything
[10:30] <lamont>  debian/rules build
[10:30] <lamont> make: Nothing to be done for `build'.
[10:30] <lamont>  /usr/bin/fakeroot debian/rules binary
[10:30] <lamont> make: Nothing to be done for `binary'.
[10:30] <dholbach> which package is it?
[10:31] <lamont> e2tools, after you remove the build-dep on type-handling evilness
[10:31] <seb128> lamont: you don't like "just work" things ? :)
[10:31] <lamont> seb128: not when they don't work, and debian/rules is all of 15 lines
[10:31] <crb> mako: ping
[10:32] <lamont> seb128: I like "just work" things just fine... It's "just doesn't work" that I don't like
[10:32] <seb128> doesn't happen a lot with cdbs which is nice
[10:32] <seb128> dunno what you have do to break it this way
[10:33] <lamont> s/nice/why I'm cdbs illiterate/
[10:33] <dholbach> lamont: maybe because of this:
[10:33] <dholbach> edd: e2tools source: no-architecture-field
[10:33] <dholbach> wasabi: e2tools source: build-depends-without-arch-dep
[10:33] <lamont> dholbach: doh
=== lamont finishes ripping type-handling out 
[10:34] <lamont> edd?
[10:34] <dholbach> oops  E :  became edd: and  W :  became wasabi:
[10:34] <lamont> from  lintian?
[10:34] <dholbach> yes, after pasting
[10:34] <dholbach> L:
[10:34] <dholbach> hrm
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[10:35] <lamont> dholbach: auto-nick-completion is evil, you know...
=== Evaso [~balmus@ppp-71-217.24-151.libero.it]  has left #ubuntu-devel ["Client] 
[10:35] <dholbach> seems to be...
[10:37] <lamont> fixed e2tools uploaded, and the other byDate polluters promotion needs requested
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[10:43] <wasabi> Hmm. gksudo is weird. It's putting '''s around my arguments.
[10:44] <wasabi> i wonder how you work with that from a .desktop file
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[10:59] <jbailey> lamont: I'm here now.
[10:59] <lamont> jbailey: is ok.
[11:00] <lamont> we figured it out...
[11:00] <jbailey> lamont: Get my hopes up and throw my love away then.  See if I care. ;)
[11:01] <jbailey> lamont: While I've got you here, can you give-back lvm2?
[11:01] <jbailey> retry, it rather.
[11:02] <wasabi> gksudo is putting '''s around all my args. =(
=== wasabi beats it
[11:02] <lamont> done
[11:02] <jbailey> lamont: jbailey^^ ?
[11:03] <lamont> jbailey: yes
[11:03] <jbailey> lamont: Thanks. =)
[11:05] <jnc> oh geeze
[11:05] <jnc> printing not working in breezy
[11:05] <jnc> silly me
=== lamont tells printing to take a number. :-)
[11:06] <jnc> well... 
[11:06] <jnc> should i try downgrading
[11:06] <Burgundavia> how do I center text in glade?
[11:06] <jnc> or wait a day or two
[11:07] <thom> or just don't run breezy if you need everything to work
[11:08] <jnc> well, not everything works anyways
[11:08] <opi> at least you can whine then :-)
[11:08] <Burgundavia> seb128, http://img161.echo.cx/img161/6384/filecopydialogtest5yx.png
[11:08] <jnc> opi: *sigh*
[11:08] <opi> you can not whine with Breezy :)
[11:08] <jnc> amd64 hoary has a lot of... trouble patches
[11:08] <jnc> like meteorite holes
[11:09] <thom> i've had no problems with hoary/amd64
[11:09] <jnc> hmm.. no printing from openoffice
[11:09] <jnc> no openoffice.org-evolution
[11:09] <opi> jnc: I know, I know. But what can yo do except for helping with Breezy
[11:09] <jnc> opi: eh.   i'd sure like to start
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[11:11] <jnc> it's like, whining and downgrading doesn't do much to help you guys
[11:11] <jnc> having breezy and not understanding OOo doesn't do much for y'all either :/
[11:12] <seb128> Burgundavia: that's quite ugly but that gives the idea :)
[11:13] <Burgundavia> seb128, there are some serious spacing and text issues
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[11:14] <Burgundavia> seb128, is there a default arrow icon in gtk?
[11:15] <seb128> yep
[11:15] <Burgundavia> hmm
[11:15] <Mithrandir> jnc: printing to a file then running lp on that afterwards work fine for me.  The other printing bug is known, I just haven't gotten around to fixing it.
[11:15] <Burgundavia> I didn't find it
[11:16] <Burgundavia> I just did
[11:16] <Burgundavia> but it won't let me select it
[11:16] <JanC> hm, someone (a linux newbie) tried to use FAT32 partition as /home when he was installing hoary
[11:16] <Mithrandir> JanC: that breaks horribly.
[11:17] <JanC> resulting in the installer not being able to create a user directory etc.
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[11:17] <JanC> can't the installer detect something like that ?
[11:17] <Mithrandir> JanC: known issue; too late to fix.  A bug has been filed already and it'll be fixed for breezy.
[11:17] <JanC> ah, okay
[11:17] <Mithrandir> so for now the fix is "don't do that, then"
[11:18] <lamont> jbailey: lvm2 will build better once libdevmapper1.01 is in main. :-(  (requested)
[11:18] <JanC> that's what I said ;-)
[11:19] <jbailey> lamont: Oh, I hadn't noticed that.  I saw it failing to build because of missing libraries, and then noticed that devmapper was FTBFS, so I fixed that.
[11:19] <lamont> jbailey: np
[11:19] <lamont>   gcj: Depends: g++ (>= 4:4.0-0) but 4:3.3.5-4 is to be installed
=== lamont nudges doko
[11:20] <jbailey> lamont: Probably asleep, since he was sick.
[11:20] <jbailey> lamont: I confirmed the upload a couple hours ago for him of amd64-libs, though, which makes gcc actually buildable again.
[11:20] <jbailey> His plan I think was to upload gcc and check on it in the morning.
[11:20] <Burgundavia> seb128, I committed the screenshot to the bug
[11:20] <lamont> jbailey: yeah - I talked with him about the time amd64-libs made it into the archive
[11:20] <seb128> Burgundavia: k
[11:20] <doko> half asleep, will be fixed, when we make g++-4.0 the default
[11:21] <jbailey> doko: That's about 2 weeks out, yes?
[11:21] <lamont> doko: and then db4.2, libtool, and several others will be buildable.
[11:22] <doko> jbailey: heh, no, next week ...
[11:23] <doko> lamont: db4.2 needs to be rebuilt anyway, because it builds a C++ library. I think, we should stop the automatic sync from unstable, until we rebuilt all our C++ libs
[11:24] <Burgundavia> seb128, sorry, you just spammed with 4 emails from the one bug
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[11:44] <jnc> oh man
[11:44] <jnc> printing != working for me...  != cool
[11:44] <jnc> where do i start to fix it?
[11:44] <jnc> it looks like the locale is confusing perl
[11:44] <jnc> on some kind of back-end to cups
[11:45] <jnc> the alternative is to downgrade but i'm not exactly sure how one goes about doing that
[11:54] <seb128> ?
[11:54] <mako> crb: hey ddue
[11:59] <wasabi> gksudo is giving me headaches.
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