[12:07] <sarom> I FIXED MY PROBLEM!
[12:07] <sarom> thanks Blissex!!
[12:07] <sarom> this is how it got fixed
[12:07] <sarom> inside pcm.!default { ... }
[12:08] <sarom> I replaced: slave.pcm "dmixer"      with slave.pcm "card0"
[12:08] <Blissex> sarom: 'dmixer' was indeed playback only.
[12:08] <sarom> because there was another definition of card0 in the file that defined my sound card
[12:08] <sarom> ahh
[12:08] <Blissex> sarom: the problem is that if you do that you are going to lose something else :-)
[12:08] <sarom> Blissex, loopback? :)
[12:08] <Blissex> sarom: why did you put in 'dmixer' at all?
[12:09] <sarom> Blissex, I never put it there
[12:09] <sarom> that's how I found it when I opened the file
[12:09] <Blissex> sarom: files don't suddendly appear and sprout magic lines...
[12:09] <sarom> when you told me to open the file... that's how I found it
[12:09] <sarom> the default was at dmixer
[12:10] <Blissex> sarom: yes, but usually there is a very good reason why one puts something like 'dmixer' there...
[12:10] <sarom> maybe Sound Recorder or the alsa mixer somehow mixed up
[12:10] <Blissex> sarom: so either you or the fairies put it there for a reason... Removing it might not be a good udea.
[12:10] <sarom> probably those apps messed up and put it there
[12:10] <Blissex> sarom: you are probalby not telling the full story here...
[12:11] <sarom> Blissex, Im very sure of it... I have never seen this type of file before other than right now
[12:11] <sarom> lol
[12:11] <Blissex> sarom: then it was the fairies :-)
[12:11] <Blissex> sarom: probably it was Ubuntu autoconfig. If it was, it did something wrong.
[12:11] <sarom> I swear me lord, tis was the faries
[12:12] <Blissex> sarom:  which Audigy have you got?
[12:12] <sarom> Audigy 2
[12:12] <Blissex> sarom: that's very odd, because something like 'dmixer' is put there for the sake of cards that have a limitation that the Audigy 2 *does not have*.
[12:13] <narg> meh, I forgot, how does one make a program go into the background when you started it from the command line without &?
[12:13] <Blissex> sarom: you should read the ''sharing'' section of that page.
[12:13] <Blissex> narg: ^Z and then 'bg'
[12:13] <gdh> narg: 'screen' ? :)
[12:13] <narg> k
[12:14] <Blissex> sarom: basically 'dmix' is used to help share a card among apps if the card cannot do that, but then it is playback only.
[12:14] <Blissex> sarom: there should have been 'asym' and 'dsnoop' there too.
[12:15] <sarom> no, they're not there
[12:15] <sarom> this is what I have defined:
[12:15] <sarom> pcm.card0 {
[12:15] <sarom> pcm.!default {
[12:15] <Blissex> sarom: so it is a bit perplexing: you had a sound library config that contained a workaround for a problem your card does not have, and that was done incorrectly too, as it contained the playbackm only bit.
[12:15] <sarom> and
[12:15] <sarom> pcm.dmixer {
[12:15] <sarom> that's it
[12:16] <Blissex> sarom: so it was not the fairies, it was the gremlins!
[12:16] <sarom> Blissex, though I have to admit, when I had gnome installed 2 days ago, sound output was not working
[12:16] <sarom> I did paste a couple of lines from the ubuntu foums
[12:16] <sarom> forums
[12:16] <sarom> trying to fix it
[12:16] <sarom> maybe they modified the file?
[12:17] <KaiL> sarom: I bet, your Audigy2 is set to digital output :p
[12:17] <sarom> no, I did check the Digital/anolog switch in the mixer
[12:17] <Blissex> sarom: if you really have an Audigy 2 you can _remove_ '/etc/asound.conf' and '~/.asoundrc'
[12:17] <KaiL> I guess, you already know that problem? ;)
[12:17] <sarom> KaiL, yeah
[12:17] <sarom> Blissex, I'll rename them
[12:18] <Blissex> sarom: actually you really should remove them. Because they are used to put in workarounds that an Audigy 2 does not need (but Audigy ZS does for example).
[12:18] <sarom> and try
[12:18] <kkathman> hey there KaiL  how are you today?
[12:18] <KaiL> oh, kkathman is awake *g*
[12:18] <Blissex> sarom: in the page I gave you the URL to there is a full discussion of these issues. They are not simple, so read it carefully.
[12:19] <kkathman> well I was gone for about an hour...my weekly massage :)
[12:19] <KaiL> I now have 9:2 fr Working ACPI S3, who gives me the No.10? :)
[12:21] <smouche> hi kkathman
[12:21] <kkathman> Hey KaiL do you know anything about new "open source" drivers being released by VIA lately?
[12:21] <kkathman> hey there smouche!!! How goes it today?
[12:21] <KaiL> kkathman: there was something...
[12:22] <kkathman> KaiL: I heard there was some controversy regarding VIA's "motives" but they still released new, open source drivers
[12:22] <smouche> tgif, kkathman
[12:22] <kkathman> I thought if I could find them, I'd try them out since my sound kinda suxors
[12:23] <sarom> I need to reboot
[12:23] <KaiL> http://www.via.com.tw/en/resources/pressroom/2005_archive/pr050412_driversource.jsp
[12:23] <KaiL> press blabla..
[12:24] <kkathman> KaiL: is that something I should pursue or not?
[12:25] <KaiL> hm?
[12:25] <kkathman> this is what I have:  Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8233/A/8235/8237 AC97 Audio Controller (rev 50
[12:26] <KaiL> looks like something, which should work out of the box
[12:27] <kkathman> and when I hook up my speakers to the output, I get this humm that happens when I move my mouse or move a window around on the screen
[12:27] <gdh> I have that at work and had yucky problems with ALSA
[12:27] <KaiL> get better Hardware ;)
[12:27] <kkathman> yeah I should probably get another sound card yes/
[12:27] <gdh> kkathman: try passing the option 'dxs_support=4' to the snd-via82xx module
[12:27] <gdh> that helped me greatly
[12:27] <KaiL> this VIA onboard sound is made for the "dang" "bing" and "dong" on Windows, but not for music ;)
[12:28] <kkathman> gdh how would I do that exactly
[12:28] <gdh> kkathman: rmmod snd-via82xx; modprobe snd-via82xx dxs_support=4
[12:28] <gdh> make sure you close all audio apps (including KMix)
[12:28] <KaiL> parm:           dxs_support:Support for DXS channels (0 = auto, 1 = enable, 2 = disable, 3 = 48k only, 4 = no VRA)
[12:29] <KaiL> ..now: what is DXS, what VRA? :)
[12:29] <gdh> yep, if I don't use 4 I get very bad distortion
[12:29] <gdh> variable rate ... something
[12:29] <foodcoman> Kail and gdh are talking getting down and dirty with Penquin Geek Speak!   =)
[12:29] <gdh> dunno what DXS is
[12:29] <gdh> means 'Fixes for Shit Soundchips'
[12:29] <kkathman> hehe
[12:30] <kkathman> I have to admit, when I built my Linux box I was more concerned for memory and processor than sound..cuz I have a very good sound system on my Winbox
[12:31] <kkathman> so Im not quite sure why I am pursuing it at all..mostly for curiousity I suppose
[12:31] <KaiL> gdh: no, the driver should have been called 'snd-visaudioshit' :)
[12:31] <kkathman> its funny, if you are in the audiophile world, VIA is an anathema...they run from it like the plague
[12:32] <gdh> alas when you have 30 Shuttle PCs with that crap onboard...
[12:32] <kkathman> along with the Audigy based chips..they run from those too
[12:32] <MoOsEb0y> hmm
[12:32] <KaiL> kkathman: I like my Audigy2
[12:32] <MoOsEb0y> you could just be like me where you don't give a shit that your soundcard is onboard VIA, because you have your receiver decode all the audio anyways
[12:33] <KaiL> build into this computer, after I needed to hear that VIA thing (the SB128 PCI died)
[12:33] <MoOsEb0y> through SPDIF
[12:33] <kkathman> KaiL:  I have an original Audigy on my Winbox and I love it for sound..but it was terrible when I had it for an audio workstation
[12:34] <smouche> I like my Soundblaster live value, on my windows box, but I'm no expert.  hell, the nVidia card on my laptop sounds awesome to me.
[12:34] <KaiL> MoOsEb0y: you still need something from that via chip
[12:34] <kkathman> M-audio cards were the favorite because of their support and lower latencies
[12:34] <KaiL> and that's still too much ;)
[12:34] <sbcman> hey folks
[12:34] <KaiL> smouche: I have an nVidia soundchip in my K8-system
[12:34] <smouche> I'm embarrassed to say I don't even know what low latency is!
[12:34] <KaiL> I haven't build the SB64 PCI in abain, because this sounds better
[12:35] <foodcoman> smouche: Not slow??? Thats almost a double negative.
[12:35] <narg> what does one call the command that executes shell commands from a scripting language (or, anyone know the command for it in python?)
[12:35] <smouche> foodcoman? what?
[12:35] <KaiL> foodcoman: the nvidia sound is really good, esp. as it's made by realtek and onboard ;)
[12:36] <foodcoman> hehehe, I was commenting on the "I'm embarrassed......."     =)
[12:36] <kkathman> smouche: when you have an audio workstation that is hooked up to a multi-timbral keyboard, there are several latencies, but the one that people really pay attention to is if you press a key on a piano keyboard how long does it take to record that in the software
[12:36] <MoOsEb0y> I'd love to see a modern mobo with ISA :)
[12:36] <gdh> I have a P3-600 :)
[12:37] <MoOsEb0y> oh. I'm sorry.
[12:37] <gdh> I'm not, who needs 3GHz to do web, mail and IRC? :)
[12:37] <kkathman> M-Audio Audiophile 2496 and their Delta cards are awesome in that regard
[12:37] <MoOsEb0y> I don't...
[12:37] <MoOsEb0y> I have 1.8 Ghz...
[12:37] <kkathman> lol smouche :)
[12:38] <kkathman> KaiL: me too...Semperon 2500+ more than enough power for a Linux system :)
[12:38] <smouche> all I know is my laptop hooked up to monsoon speakers amounts to the best dang hifi I've ever owned!
[12:38] <kkathman> KaiL: However, I need to find out how to reduce the number of things running ...I think I have too many
[12:38] <KaiL> kkathman: Sepron 3100+ here - which runs @1GHz thanks to powernowd :p
[12:39] <kkathman> KaiL: Excellent...thats such a good chip line :)
[12:39] <gdh> quiet++ :)
[12:39] <KaiL> gdh: yes
[12:39] <KaiL> currently I sit at a Authlon 1000 with VIA KT133
[12:39] <kkathman> KaiL:  I havent even tried to tweak it for overclocking either
[12:40] <KaiL> and some VERY VERY noisy cooling technics
[12:40] <gdh> Overclocking stopped being useful once we hit 100MHz
[12:40] <smouche> my amd64 is spookily quiet.
[12:40] <gdh> tinypenis--
[12:40] <MoOsEb0y> smouche: mine too
[12:40] <kkathman> See its basically impossible to use the VIA KT133 for an audio workstation...I had the K7T266Pro Line
[12:40] <KaiL> smouche: every AMD64 is
[12:40] <MoOsEb0y> cool n' quiet is nice
[12:41] <MoOsEb0y> my power supply makes more noise than my CPU fan...
[12:41] <KaiL> else your power supply and/or hard disks suck
[12:41] <KaiL> MoOsEb0y: get a better one (be quiet) ;)
[12:41] <MoOsEb0y> naww
[12:41] <MoOsEb0y> it helps drown out the extreme silence in this room
[12:41] <smouche> my cd/dvd drive makes up for the quiet with insane noise.
[12:41] <MoOsEb0y> I don't mind a bit of white noise at night.. helps me sleep
[12:41] <KaiL> I don't hear them, even if nothing else makes noise
[12:42] <gdh> constant background noise can be nice, yeh..
[12:42] <chavo> MoOsEb0y, I'm the same, I can't sleep without my computer running.
[12:42] <kkathman> I have like 4 computers around me here in my office and when they all emit that white noise...its hard to stay awake sometimes
[12:42] <chavo> KaiL, I need to drown out the voices in my head.
[12:43] <kkathman> Lol chavo :)
[12:43] <KaiL> so silent, that you start to hate every mechanical clock around ;)
[12:43] <kkathman> tick...tick...tick...tick...tick SHADDUP!!!
[12:43] <KaiL> bingo
[12:43] <KaiL> only thing you can hear here
[12:43] <smouche> I had a ground loop hum in some audio equipment that almost made me jump out the window.
[12:44] <smouche> thank god I could fix with a gizmo from radio shack
[12:44] <kkathman> smouche thats generally just a polarity issue
[12:45] <smouche> Kail, you reminded me; I think I made a big mistake in moving my desk nearer to my kitchenette;
[12:45] <smouche> when the summer kicks in my refirgerator is going to drown everything out!
[12:45] <kkathman> ROFL
[12:46] <smouche> main reason i suffer without airconditioning here is I hate the noise
[12:46] <KaiL> get me a new power supply first :)
[12:46] <kkathman> what kind of PS are you looking for?
[12:46] <smouche> kkathman, I'd settle for a new apartment, in a city about 15 degrees cooler.
[12:47] <kkathman> smouche: Buffalo?
[12:47] <kkathman> lol
[12:47] <KaiL> smouche: europeans live without airconditioning, because they sometimes think about nature :)
[12:47] <KaiL> might be a better argument :)
[12:48] <kkathman> yeah well, then a couple of years ago, people died because it got so hot there and they DIDNT have A/C
[12:48] <kkathman> Hey nate_  :)
[12:48] <smouche> live through a summer in New York City and you might rethink that, KaiL!
[12:48] <KaiL> how warm?
[12:48] <nate_> howdy :)
[12:49] <smouche> lord, kkathman, I was gonna bring up the deathtoll in that heatwave, then thought, nah...
[12:49] <kkathman> smouche: yer breakin my heart....try coming down here and enjoy 100+ weather for 30-45 days straight :)
[12:49] <smouche> yeah, but kkathman, you folks get AC in the womb, don't you?
[12:49] <nate_> anyone have trouble getting kismet to work in ubuntu/kubuntu?
[12:49] <kkathman> smouche: I had a friend of mine who went over there during that time...he was born and reared in England and he was astonished
[12:50] <smouche> isn't virtually everything air-conditioned down there?
[12:50] <kkathman> smouche A/C in cars isnt an option, lets put it that way
[12:50] <smouche> heh heh
[12:50] <nate_> anyone have trouble with it?
[12:51] <kkathman> while I got KaiL here,  is there a way that I can set a default in Konqi to open with a specific profile everytime?
[12:51] <smouche> kkathman, I managed to do that via trial and error, so if you want to try some of my errors, you're welcome to.
[12:52] <kkathman> lol..I have a profile set up I like for file management, but everytime I open Konqi I have to go and set it...thats a pain
[12:52] <KaiL> smouche: ok, little bit more that in Hamburg
[12:53] <smouche> the humidity is brutal in NYC, KaiL, and with all this concrete, even when atomospheric conditions improve at night, the city is just exhaling heat.
[12:53] <smouche> kkathman, open konq
[12:54] <kkathman> ok smouche done
[12:54] <smouche> settings
[12:54] <KaiL> in fact, quite wet there
[12:54] <smouche> load view profile
[12:55] <smouche> choose the one you like more or less
[12:55] <kkathman> right did that
[12:55] <smouche> then, kkathman, try configure view profiles
[12:55] <KaiL> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Klima_newyork.png <-> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Klima_hamburg.png
[12:55] <KaiL> ..compare
[12:55] <kkathman> ok there
[12:56] <KaiL> but I have something worse for you :)
[12:56] <KaiL> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Klima_bastia.png
[12:56] <smouche> now this is where the very trying errors come in, kkathman
[12:56] <kkathman> ok
[12:56] <smouche> I somehow managed to save my preferred profile under a different name
[12:56] <smouche> which then managed to stay as default for konq
[12:57] <kkathman> how do you set it as "preferred" ?
[12:57] <smouche> I had to keep trying to save a new profile, rename them, change settings with the other menus
[12:57] <smouche> try saving again.
[12:57] <kkathman> hmm
[12:57] <smouche> sorry, I don't have a systematic method
[12:57] <smouche> frankly, I think the settings on there suck
[12:58] <smouche> anyway, kkathman, now when I click on an icon for a folder, konq opens in my preferred profile.
[12:59] <smouche> kkathman, I'm using a modified version of the "file management" profile, and it's not crashing lately.
[01:00] <smouche> wish I could be less vague, but the upshot is, you can get it to open in the view you prefer.
[01:01] <smouche> oh, yeah, kkathman, of course, check the View menu too, and see if changes to "view mode" are remembered in the profile.
[01:02] <kkathman> smouche: Thats what I did...took the file management and split it
[01:04] <smouche> KaiL!  hah hah!  those temps in Hamburg ! - I don't call that summer!
[01:04] <KaiL> we also not ;)
[01:05] <smouche> of course, you probably would not consider winter here to be worth the name either!
[01:05] <KaiL> do you have snow?
[01:05] <KaiL> nights with -20C?
[01:06] <smouche> we have snow, KaiL, but not nearly as much in New York City as in the rest of the state.
[01:06] <smouche> Buffalo NY for example gets extremely heavy snow
[01:06] <KaiL> normal in big citties..
[01:07] <smouche> KaiL, I'm from a little town in New York's North Country, near the Canadian border; that's a climate a northern European might feel at home in!
[01:08] <sbcman> backport repos are running slow it seems
[01:08] <KaiL> smouche: so you really dont's need airconditioning
[01:08] <sbcman> I am about to turn on the air here in St. Louis
[01:09] <smouche> well, I'm in NYC now, KaiL, in the south of the state, and believe, AC is advisable.
[01:09] <kkathman> weird now I cant get it to do what I want anymore ARHGGGGGGGG!!! Konqi SUCKS
[01:09] <smouche> kkathman, I know the errors are trying, but, well, keep trying.  
[01:10] <kkathman> It shouldnt be this hard
[01:10] <smouche> I had exactly the same experience.
[01:10] <smouche> I agree.
[01:10] <kkathman> people that love Konq are masochists :)
[01:10] <KaiL> NYC seams to have a very special situation, very big differences in a very small area
[01:10] <smouche> "very small area"?
[01:10] <smouche> small compared to what?
[01:12] <kkathman> stoopid designers, whats so hard about creating the profiles and they clicking one and making it a default?
[01:13] <Diablo-D3> r0xx0r
[01:13] <Diablo-D3> AdBlocK has been commited to khtml svn
[01:14] <sarom> damn it's hot
[01:14] <KaiL> nice
[01:15] <KaiL> 3.4.1 or 3.5?
[01:15] <Diablo-D3> HEAD. ;)
[01:15] <smouche> I know, kkathman, it's like they decide on features, then don't bother to check that they're actually usable.
[01:15] <Diablo-D3> I'm going to see if it can make 3.4.1, though
[01:15] <KaiL> smouche: small compared to the regions, between which you have 10C gap in europe
[01:15] <Diablo-D3> smouche: a case of "developers dont use programs they code"?
[01:16] <smouche> ah, I see.
[01:20] <ravenOUS> Kubuntu Rules!
[01:20] <ravenOUS> kDE is much better than Gnome
[01:20] <ravenOUS> lol
[01:20] <Diablo-D3> No preaching to the chior, please
[01:20] <sarom> Anyone notice that some icons lined up in the desktop move over to the adjacent column when you hide/unhide the mixer?
[01:20] <ravenOUS> ne body help me with an error msg i'm gettin when tryin to install "transcode" usin synaptic
[01:21] <ravenOUS> pm me if u do
[01:21] <smouche> I'm just happy konq isn't crashing on me!  
[01:21] <smouche> anymore, that is...
[01:21] <sarom> sorry, I didn't mean the mixer
[01:21] <sarom> but the kicker
[01:22] <kkathman> The actual MAN for konqueror isnt right either :)
[01:22] <kkathman> lol
[01:22] <sarom> I think it's a serious bug
[01:22] <ravenOUS> transcode:
[01:22] <ravenOUS>  Depends: libavcodeccvs but it is not going to be installed
[01:22] <ravenOUS>  Depends: libdvdread2  but it is not installable
[01:22] <ravenOUS>  Depends: libvorbis0 (>=1.0rc3-1) but it is not installable
[01:22] <ravenOUS>  Depends: libxvidcore4 but it is not going to be installed
[01:22] <smouche> yes, sarom, I noticed that, and it really annoyed me.  So I removed the icons from my desktop!
[01:22] <sarom> smouche, really? what did you do?
[01:22] <kkathman> it just seems that if you have profiles, what the heck good does it do if you cant default one of them?
[01:22] <sarom> have a second kicker?
[01:23] <smouche> I have four panels, and no icons
[01:23] <bodaciousb> hey everyone... im new to KDE, im trying to make shortcuts to /media/server and /media/upload on my main panel.. i have made them but all i see is an icon, and they both look the same... is there anyway i can make them appear as text?
[01:23] <sarom> smouche, by panels, you mean kickers?
[01:23] <ravenOUS> nebody usin Kubuntu Hoary 5.04?
[01:24] <kkathman> sarom what problem are you having?
[01:24] <kkathman> smouche: you dont have icons?
[01:24] <kkathman> lol
[01:24] <KaiL> ravenOUS: everybody is :)
[01:24] <smouche> kkathman, it's a mystery.  You know you can try this:  rename the profile you like as the default that konq is insisting on giving you.
[01:24] <sarom> kkathman, when I hide/unhide the kicker, some of my desktop icons move to the adjacent cell
[01:24] <smouche> follow me, kkathman?
[01:24] <KaiL> hmm, get the same messages...
[01:24] <kkathman> smouche...you cant do that
[01:24] <ravenOUS> KaiL: muh bad :)
[01:24] <kkathman> yes I follow, but you cant...it modifies it
[01:25] <smouche> sarom, panels.  the kicker, i think really just refers to the area near and including the menu icon in the main panel
[01:25] <KaiL> ah, there sits the problem....
[01:25] <ravenOUS> just for ref..the KDE Desktop is UBER better than Gnome Desktop
[01:25] <smouche> can't do what, kkathman?  I did.
[01:25] <KaiL> you need a fresher libc6, for example from ubuntu breezy
[01:25] <kkathman> the kicker is the bottom toolbar
[01:26] <ravenOUS> nnnneeebody wanna help me w/ my prob?
[01:26] <sarom> ahh ok
[01:26] <sarom> so I guess I have to get rid of my desktop icons :(
[01:26] <smouche> sarom, do you want to hide icons?  It's easy.  Stopping them from moving around, that I don't think you can do.
[01:26] <kkathman> smouche:  ok... well I loaded the "File Management" profile right. It has split panel .. left is a tree, and right is a file list...when I click on a directory on the left the files display on the right
[01:26] <sarom> the thing is, I don't want to add new panels.. I want to make the most of my screen real-estate
[01:26] <smouche> right, 
[01:27] <kkathman> well when you load that, and try to rename it to "profile" it drops the split panels
[01:27] <kkathman> Whoa...why are you getting rid of icons?
[01:27] <smouche> kkathman: now, save that profile under the name that konq already uses for a different profile, whatevet the default one is
[01:27] <sarom> kkathman, are you talking to me?
[01:27] <kkathman> smouche...the default profile is "profile"
[01:28] <kkathman> yes sarom..why do you have to remove your icons?
[01:28] <smouche> somehow kkathman, I'm getting Konq to open with default called "filemanagement3"  (my name)
[01:28] <sarom> kkathman, because when I hide and unhide the kicker, some of my desktop icons get pushed over to the adjacent cells
[01:29] <smouche> how are you invoking konq?
[01:29] <smouche> sarom,
[01:29] <ravenOUS> oook...who here's gonna help me with my naggin insanely frustrating problem i'm havin gettin transcode over synaptic?
[01:29] <smouche> right click on desktop, sarom
[01:29] <kkathman> sarom:  why not just shrink your kicker to "tiny" and leave everything else alone?
[01:29] <smouche> "configure desktop"
[01:29] <kkathman> thats what I did
[01:29] <Diablo-D3> heh
[01:29] <Diablo-D3> thats what I will be doing
[01:29] <Diablo-D3> soon as I go full kde
[01:29] <smouche> click in "behaviour" tab
[01:30] <sarom> kkathman, I want to see which windows are open or not...
[01:30] <sarom> smouche, let me do that
[01:30] <sarom> just a sec
[01:30] <kkathman> smouche: thats what Im telling you...I can load up File Management (or my modified one) but when I save it as "profile" it isnt the same
[01:30] <sarom> smouche, done, next?
[01:30] <kkathman> sarom: I dont know what you mean by that
[01:31] <sarom> kkathman, oh sorry, I misread that
[01:31] <sarom> I do have it set at tiny
[01:31] <kkathman> My kicker takes up about 20 pixels at the bottom of my screen
[01:31] <smouche> kkathman, in the main menu, did you click on "save view profile"?
[01:31] <sarom> kkathman, same thing here
[01:31] <nate_> anyone have trouble getting kismet to work in ubuntu/kubuntu?
[01:31] <kkathman> and thats too big?
[01:31] <bodaciousb> how do i change desktop resolution in kde?
[01:31] <smouche> sarom, there is no next, that's how you hide icons.
[01:32] <sarom> lol
[01:32] <sarom> I just hid and unhid the icons
[01:32] <sarom> and a lot of them moved out of place
[01:32] <sarom> :)
[01:33] <sarom> how come nobody fixed this bug
[01:33] <smouche> I prefer kde to gnome, but I really think nautilus handles the desktop better.
[01:33] <nate_> report the bug, sarom 
[01:33] <nate_> smouche: indeed
[01:33] <sarom> nate_, Im sure it has been reported
[01:33] <nate_> smouche: i think konq is poo
[01:33] <sarom> nate_, yeah, and slow to load up
[01:34] <nate_> sarom: yeah, and slow to load every single webpage
[01:34] <smouche> kkathman, have you tried a file browser called krusader?
[01:34] <nate_> smouche: ooooh, something to try for me
[01:34] <smouche> I think you would like it, though it's not fast.
[01:34] <sarom> I looked at the krusader screenshots
[01:34] <smouche> I have no idea how to get kde to recognize it as the default though.
[01:34] <sarom> looks like what you would see in an FTP browser
[01:35] <smouche> I also like rox-filer, though it looks a little weird on kde
[01:35] <sarom> can the view change to the equivalent of multicolumn view?
[01:35] <bodaciousb> anyone know how i can make icons on my panel appear as text?
[01:35] <smouche> it's kind of like midnight commander.
[01:35] <smouche> bodaciousb, I wish I did, that would be cool
[01:36] <bodaciousb> smouche, yeah it would =)
[01:37] <smouche> well, I gotta go pretend to cook something and then pretend to enjoy eating it.
[01:37] <smouche> see you folks later on
[01:37] <nate_> smouche: WOW, krusader is soooooo much better
[01:37] <nate_> smouche: thanks
[01:37] <nate_> smouche: later
[01:37] <smouche> you're welcome!
[01:37] <kkathman> smouche I tried krusader and it crashed more times than I could get it to be useful
[01:37] <kkathman> its not worth a crap
[01:38] <sarom> ok
[01:38] <sarom> I was just going to try it
[01:38] <smouche> everybody's mileage varies!
[01:38] <jan__> question the kppp application is giving me an issue more specifically i have entered all the information it request but for some reason when i take and try to connect the connection instantly dies with error code status 1 and says check kppp faq %1 not much help. could someone please help me in resolving this. I took and made a script that would use pon and it works fine but i would like something more gui if i could
[01:38] <nate_> kkathman: i haven't thoroughly tested it, just trying it
[01:38] <sarom> kkathman's comment just prevented me
[01:38] <sarom> :)
[01:39] <kkathman> nate_: I just brought it up the first time and clicked on something and it crashed the 1st time
[01:39] <nate_> kkathman: ha
[01:39] <nate_> kkathman: i just clicked all kinds of stuff and its stable for me
[01:39] <kkathman> bottom line, konqueror should do these things, but its just a very poorly designed utility
[01:39] <kkathman> well I'll try it again then
[01:40] <nate_> kkathman: yeah, konq is poo
[01:40] <nate_> gtg
[01:40] <nate_> later
[01:42] <kkathman> on a file management tool, is it too much to ask that you click on a directory on the left side, and the files come up on the right side?
[01:43] <sarom> I think the desktop icons bug has something to do with an error in calculation.. + or - 1
[01:43] <sarom> or something along those lines
[01:44] <kkathman> just crashed again
[01:44] <kkathman> I can get it to everytime now :)
[01:48] <smouche> are you talking about konq or krusader now?
[01:48] <kkathman> krusader
[01:48] <sarom> krusader offcourse
[01:48] <sarom> he can get to crash everytime
[01:48] <sarom> he has perfected the art of the crash
[01:48] <sarom> lol
[01:48] <kkathman> go to configure krusader
[01:49] <kkathman> then in the middle there is an option to choose pane 1 or pane 2 options
[01:49] <kkathman> use the drop down to choose something other than the default and try to select it...it will crash
[01:51] <sarom> damn it's hot
[01:51] <sarom> I need to switch on the AC
[01:51] <kkathman> hehe
[01:52] <smouche> crashes a lot less than konqueror ever did, and the defaults in krusader are for more useful to me.
[01:53] <smouche> well, try rox-filer.  You might hate it, but if you can crash THAT, my hat's off to you!
[01:57] <kkathman> 81F here right now
[02:01] <sarom> excellent... a new episode of numb3rs tonight :)
[02:05] <sarom> I FIXED IT!
[02:05] <sarom> I FIXED IT!
[02:06] <Diablo-D3> fixed what?
[02:06] <sarom> smouche-ravioli, kkathman, I fixed the damn bug!
[02:06] <sarom> Diablo.. [because when I hide and unhide the kicker, some of my desktop icons get pushed over to the adjacent cells] 
[02:06] <Diablo-D3> hrm, it shouldnt
[02:08] <sarom> Configure Desktop - Behavior - File Icons - uncheck "Automatically line up icons"
[02:08] <sarom> that's how I fixed it
[02:09] <sarom> oh no
[02:09] <sarom> now the icons move in the same location if I move them
[02:10] <sarom> damn.. I had to recheck it.. I can't live like this
[02:10] <sarom> I need them to be automatically aligned
[02:13] <AzMoo> I've got a logitech wireless keyboard, and it's got all of the extra buttons and stuff on the top. Is there any way I can map them to different functions?
[02:16] <KaiL> AzMoo: controlcenter -> regional&accessibility -> layout
[03:13] <kkathman> hello again...wow Im stuffed...big dinner :)
[03:16] <kkathman> wow where did everyone go?
[03:16] <KaiL> *bang* :)
[03:16] <KaiL> good question
[03:16] <kkathman> well good, KaiL  is here all is well :)
[03:16] <KaiL> lol
[03:16] <kkathman> I feel more secure now :)
[03:20] <KaiL> anybody with hardware problems? :)
[03:25] <KaiL> hmm, as I said: ubuntu - the Linux to make supporters workless :)
[03:26] <azevedo> how do I change the screen resolution?
[03:26] <KaiL> up or down?
[03:26] <azevedo> up
[03:26] <KaiL> then you need to fight with /etx/X11/xorg.conf for now
[03:26] <azevedo> 2 more
[03:27] <azevedo> how do I make a root acount and where are the server settings at?
[03:27] <KaiL> root: 'sudo passwd root'
[03:27] <KaiL> which "server settings"?
[03:27] <azevedo> httpd and ftp.  I found samba
[03:28] <KaiL> everywhere in /etc
[03:28] <KaiL> httpd is /etc/apache or /etc/apache2
[03:29] <KaiL> ftp depends on the server you use. /etc/servername is always a good place to start searching
[03:29] <azevedo> vsftpd or something
[03:29] <kkathman> azevedo:  you might just try right clicking on the desktop and choosing configure desktop, then choosing display to see if you have the options you are looking for.
[03:29] <kkathman> brb
[03:30] <azevedo> already did.  There used to be (FC3) a screen resolution thing in settings.
[03:30] <KaiL> kkathman: that's why I asked up or down ;)
[03:30] <azevedo> I was smart about my server settings though.
[03:30] <azevedo> copied the config files beforei nstalling ubuntu
[03:32] <azevedo> ok, so how do I use root?  Some sudo passwd?  When it prompts me I just give it my normal login password and it works.
[03:33] <azevedo> but it wont let me copy my conifguration files
[03:33] <KaiL> eh, 'sudo passwd' is to enable a "real root account"
[03:33] <azevedo> I mean prompts me graphically, consol su doesnt work
[03:34] <KaiL> 'sudo su' askes for you user-PW and gives you a rootshell then
[03:35] <azevedo> ok, thanks
[03:36] <azevedo> bash: chkconfig: command not found
[03:37] <azevedo> is there some kind of "diferences in ubuntu" document
[03:37] <KaiL> what on earch is "chkconfig"?
[03:37] <azevedo> used to configure a service to start every time
[03:37] <azevedo> root@ubuntu:/home/azevedo # service httpd restart
[03:37] <azevedo> bash: service: command not found
[03:37] <azevedo> ??
[03:38] <KaiL> restart is down with "/etc/init.d/apache restart"
[03:38] <KaiL> same syntax for all servers
[03:39] <KaiL> ubuntu is a debian system...
[03:39] <azevedo> I have a syntax error.  I wish there was a graphical httpd configuration app
[03:39] <azevedo> I came from fedora
[03:40] <azevedo> and i'm still pretty new to linux in general
[03:42] <azevedo> ok, well I at least want it to look good.  I found some screen resolutions in the file
[03:43] <azevedo> but they're all the same "1024X768" "800X600" "640X480"
[03:43] <azevedo> I dont think I can put my own values in
[03:43] <KaiL> there's one line for each color depth
[03:43] <azevedo> yeah.  1 through 24
[03:43] <KaiL> the default is above that block, should be 24bit
[03:44] <KaiL> ...so you only need to change the 24bit block ;)
[03:44] <azevedo> so it's 1280X1024?
[03:44] <KaiL> just set your resolution in front of all that others
[03:44] <KaiL> small x
[03:46] <azevedo> it cant save the file.  I did chmod 777 /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[03:46] <KaiL> use sudo ;)
[03:47] <azevedo> bash: emacs: command not found
[03:48] <KaiL> nano is preinstalled and rather usable
[03:48] <azevedo> oh yeah.  I used nano trying to install gentoo...didnt go to well
[03:49] <azevedo> ok.  so now I need to restart something?
[03:49] <KaiL> log out, then the x-server get's restarted
[03:50] <KaiL> oh, just for the statistics: that's a CRT?
[03:50] <azevedo> CRT?
[03:50] <KaiL> traditional big monitor
[03:51] <azevedo> TBM?  What are you talking about?
[03:51] <KaiL> no TFT...
[03:51] <azevedo> it's a proview.  has a big back to it..
[03:51] <azevedo> it's not flag
[03:51] <KaiL> ok
[03:51] <azevedo> thanks
[03:51] <azevedo> oh
[03:52] <KaiL> because with TFTs this is called "big bug"
[03:52] <KaiL> with CRTs only "another one needing an editor"
[03:52] <azevedo> why are there so many people here but they don't talk
[03:52] <azevedo> is that how irc normally is?
[03:53] <KaiL> normally not THAT bad
[03:53] <azevedo> ok, thanks.  I'll get back on because I think I did something bad.  The exit button's on the left and it's jsut a sqare.  I like it on the right.
[03:53] <azevedo> maybe it'll fix itself
[03:53] <KaiL> but the opposite is worse - in #debian you can't type 2 lines without 10 lines from other people between ;)
[03:54] <kkathman> KaiL: did you see my question earlier about Konqi
[03:55] <kkathman> just wondered if you had any feedback on that
[03:55] <KaiL> uhm, the profiles?
[03:55] <kkathman> yes
[03:55] <kkathman> then I have a hardware question
[03:56] <KaiL> you can add a menu with all profiles to your panel (rightclock -> add -> special -> konq profiles)
[03:56] <KaiL> hardware? oh, what?
[03:57] <kkathman> well, are you familiary with these tools such as superkaramba, that can show cpu and chassis fan temp?
[03:57] <kkathman> familiar I mean
[03:57] <KaiL> the sensors behind or these frontends?
[03:58] <kkathman> well both actually
[03:58] <kkathman> Im trying to get these front ends to see those sensors
[03:58] <KaiL> I only use ksensors...
[03:58] <kkathman> I can examine them in /proc/acpi/ etc.... but they arent being picked up by the monitors
[03:59] <KaiL> but that doesn't have that much functions (=can't read out the acpi sensors and no hddtemp)
[03:59] <kkathman> and what does ksensors do?
[03:59] <kkathman> ahh ok
[03:59] <kkathman> man Im having trouble getting info on these fans and temps
[03:59] <azevedo> 800x600 :( Why cant ubuntu like, have a "screen resolution" in settings someware?  Like FC3 had.  Well whatever, I havnt ate yet.  Trust that I'l be back tomorow...or maybe I'll look around the forums if my eyes can handle it.
[04:00] <kkathman> azevado it does in the KDE control center 
[04:00] <KaiL> he's gone
[04:00] <kkathman> oh wel
[04:00] <kkathman> hehe
[04:00] <KaiL> and controlcenter still can only lower your res :)
[04:00] <KaiL> if you have your sensors available in /proc/acpi you have more than me here
[04:01] <kkathman> well the bottom line on that resolution, about 80-90% of the people blow through that screen on the install, which causes probs
[04:01] <kkathman> I thought there is a way to go through that wizard again tho
[04:01] <KaiL> dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg?
[04:02] <kkathman> yes thats it :)
[04:02] <KaiL> but that askes for really EVERY shit
[04:02] <KaiL> there should be a tool to set only the monitor settings
[04:03] <KaiL> as everything else is unproblematic
[04:03] <KaiL> 04:04 here...
[04:04] <KaiL> g'night
[04:04] <kkathman> hey goto bed my friend, and get some rest :)
[04:04] <kkathman> have a good sleep
[04:05] <closure> my kcontrol is screwed
[04:05] <closure> i have to reinstall about every other day
[04:11] <kkathman> hey closure :)
[04:11] <kkathman> wassup with your kcontroL???
[04:13] <closure> administrator mode doesn't work
[04:13] <closure> hasn't since that libs update
[04:14] <lwizardl> hi
[04:14] <kkathman> hello there
[04:14] <lwizardl> can someone help me with my onboard nvidia videocard
[04:15] <kkathman> iwizard have you tried checking out www.ubuntuguide.org ?  There is a whole section on nVidia there
[04:15] <lwizardl> I'm having trouble with getting my video card to display correctly
[04:16] <lwizardl> no looking now
[04:22] <lwizardl> i get an error on the gedit part
[04:22] <lwizardl> command not found
[04:25] <claydoh> substitute 'kwrite' for 'gedit"
[04:26] <lwizardl> is that something I need to add
[04:26] <lwizardl> oh ok
[04:26] <claydoh> gedit is a gnome based editor
[04:26] <lwizardl> ok
[04:26] <lwizardl> so that page was made for gnome (ubuntu)
[04:27] <claydoh> kwrite you alread have ;)
[04:27] <claydoh> but it still will be good for Kubuntu
[04:27] <lwizardl> ok i'm getting errors still
[04:28] <claydoh> ot try kedit, I forget which is installed by default
[04:28] <claydoh> sorry
[04:28] <lwizardl> kwrite works
[04:28] <claydoh> cool
[04:28] <lwizardl> but i got a few errors
[04:28] <claydoh> does it open the file?
[04:28] <smouche-ravioli> closure, have you tried invoking kcontrol with kdesu instead of sudo?
[04:29] <lwizardl> smouche: no i haven't
[04:29] <smouche> just a shot in the dark, but I found that works better with some kde apps
[04:29] <lwizardl> 100% new to this so only thing i have tried is what the guide is saying for the nvidia install
[04:30] <claydoh> lwizardl: you can ignore the error if it opens the text file
[04:30] <lwizardl> i get a blank text doc
[04:31] <closure> sn] 
[04:31] <closure> smq
[04:31] <closure> sn
[04:31] <closure> lol
[04:31] <closure> shit
[04:31] <claydoh> ok, the path is wrong is all
[04:31] <closure> smouche,  what do you mean?
[04:32] <claydoh> lwizardl: sudo kwrite /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[04:32] <smouche> closure, if I open kpackage, for example with "sudo kpackage", I get an error; it loads, but missing some features
[04:32] <smouche> if I open it with kdesu instead, i's fine, no errors
[04:33] <smouche> anyway, kdesu will give you root control in kcontrol just like sudo
[04:33] <smouche> and I think it may avoid some bugs
[04:33] <lwizardl> claydoh: that seemed to work
[04:33] <smouche> why, I have no clue
[04:33] <claydoh> :)
[04:33] <closure> hrm
[04:33] <closure> i will try that
[04:34] <lwizardl> does it matter where i place the text in the file?
[04:35] <claydoh> you should place it in the proper sections
[04:35] <claydoh> which parts are you adding/
[04:35] <lwizardl> nvidia settings
[04:35] <claydoh> which bits though?
[04:36] <claydoh> reference rather
[04:36] <lwizardl> http://www.ubuntuguide.org/#installnvidiadriver
[04:38] <lwizardl> #4
[04:39] <claydoh> oh, I was thinking you were installing and editing the config file
[04:39] <smouche> kkathman, have you tried making a launcher or a shortcut to launch konq with this option:
[04:39] <smouche> "konqueror -profile filemanagement"
[04:39] <claydoh> do not use the sudo kwrite /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[04:40] <lwizardl> oh ok
[04:40] <claydoh> #4 is to put a menu entry for the nvidia-settings applet
[04:40] <lwizardl> yeah
[04:41] <lwizardl> i'm stuck with either 320x240 or 640x480 screen res
[04:42] <claydoh> the nvidia-settings won't change your resolution
[04:44] <lwizardl> damn
[04:44] <lwizardl> what do i need to do?
[04:44] <claydoh> ok you have done 1-3 right?
[04:44] <lwizardl> yes
[04:47] <claydoh> you will need to install  linux- linux-restricted-modules
[04:47] <claydoh> err  linux-restricted-modules
[04:48] <claydoh> linux-restricted-modules-386 i think
[04:48] <kkathman> smouche, I tried launching from the command line that way
[04:48] <kkathman> but the name of the profile has a space in it
[04:48] <claydoh> you can use kynaptic or synaptic for that as well
[04:48] <smouche> it won't work with a space
[04:49] <kkathman> so again, I tried to load File Management, save it as "profile" or "myprofile" and what happens is that it doesnt come out the same way
[04:49] <smouche> then it'll try to open tabs, as if they were malformed urls
[04:49] <claydoh> lwizardl: then we will take a peek at  /etc/X11/xorg.conf to see if it is set up correctly
[04:50] <claydoh> should be only a copule of edits at most
[04:50] <smouche> hang on, kkathman, let me check something
[04:51] <smouche> kkathman, konqueror -profile filemanagement  works here.
[04:52] <kkathman> I tried creating an application icon with /usr/bin/konqueror --myprofile  and when I execute it it comes back with "Malformed URL"
[04:52] <kkathman> ah wait I messed up
[04:52] <smouche> kkathman, try konqueror -profile myprofile
[04:52] <kkathman> no I didnt I did put that --profile in there
[04:52] <lwizardl> http://pastebin.com/280728
[04:52] <kkathman> thought it was --
[04:52] <chavo> kkathman, do this kfmclient openProfile profilename
[04:53] <lwizardl> thats my conf file
[04:53] <kkathman> chavo it doesnt work....says Profiule myprofile not found
[04:54] <kkathman> sorry for the spelling
[04:54] <kkathman> chavo I created a modified file management profile that has a left panel and a right panel. When I click a directory in the left panel the files show up in the right one
[04:55] <kkathman> then I saved this as profile "File Management"
[04:55] <kkathman> I have no idea how I created that, because I cant seem to do it again
[04:55] <claydoh> lwizardl: put a '#' at the beginning of the line # 40    Load  "dri"
[04:55] <claydoh> #Load  "dri"
[04:56] <smouche> kkathman, did typing this exactly not work:  konqueror -profile filemanagement    
[04:56] <smouche> ?
[04:56] <smouche> no spaces
[04:56] <kkathman> ill try that
[04:56] <lwizardl> what about the second line?
[04:56] <lwizardl> mode 0666
[04:56] <kkathman> no that worked
[04:57] <smouche> here's the nasty part though, try that with sudo or kdesu, and it won't open.
[04:57] <claydoh> lwizardl: no, line 40, nearer the top
[04:57] <kkathman> BIINGO smouche!!
[04:57] <smouche> yay!
[04:58] <kkathman> got an icon that works now
[04:58] <kkathman> atta baby...thank you!!!
[04:58] <lwizardl> ok i see
[04:58] <smouche> doesn't  it really really suck how much time it takes to figure out how to open apps more quickly and conveniently?
[04:58] <lwizardl> anything else ?
[04:59] <lwizardl> there is another dri in the file
[04:59] <claydoh> at the very bottom?
[04:59] <lwizardl> yeah
[04:59] <claydoh> you can ignore that, as you disabled dri at the top :)
[05:00] <lwizardl> ok
[05:00] <claydoh> but you can comment those 3 lines out
[05:00] <claydoh> if you wish
[05:00] <kkathman> smouche yeah I would have never guessed to remove the space :)
[05:00] <lwizardl> ok # them out
[05:01] <kkathman> now if I could only figure out how to adjust the icon spacing grid
[05:01] <lwizardl> so now what?
[05:01] <claydoh> lwizardl:did you install the  linux-restricted-modules?
[05:01] <lwizardl> no
[05:02] <smouche> kkathman, I found that by accident when I was googling kdesu vs su -- it was in something posted by NTolerance on one of the forums
[05:02] <lwizardl> how?
[05:02] <kkathman> the icon spacing?
[05:02] <smouche> lol, no, the parameters for konqueror
[05:03] <smouche> kkathman, I decided the icons were a lost cause, and just nuked 'em
[05:03] <claydoh> lwizardl: sudo apt-get install  linux-restricted-modules-386
[05:03] <kkathman> rofl
[05:03] <kkathman> chavo you still around?
[05:04] <chavo> kkathman, yep
[05:04] <kkathman> chavo you know if its possible to change the grid on the icons?  I would like to get them closer togethers
[05:04] <lwizardl> linux-restricted-modules-386 is already the newest version.
[05:04] <lwizardl> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 12 not upgraded.
[05:04] <claydoh> lwizardl: you already have it then :)
[05:04] <chavo> kkathman, I don't think you can
[05:05] <claydoh> lwizardl: then reboot
[05:05] <kkathman> ahh bummer, even windoze allows that :)
[05:05] <lwizardl> ok brb
[05:05] <chavo> kkathman, you can make them not line up automatically
[05:06] <kkathman> I know that
[05:06] <smouche> lose the icons, kkathman, you'll feel purged and relieved afterwards, I promise you
[05:06] <chavo> kkathman, then move them where you want them
[05:06] <smouche> put up some family pictures or something in their place.
[05:06] <kkathman> where do you put all your quick links then..on the kicker?
[05:06] <smouche> kkathman, I have four panels, and they are pretty crowded, but I'm thinning them out
[05:07] <kkathman> LOL Chavo...crap how easy!!!! Just uncheck the icon gird
[05:07] <kkathman> grid
[05:07] <smouche> I set up a lot of keyboard shortcuts
[05:07] <smouche> kde is great for keyboard shortcuts!
[05:07] <chavo> kkathman, I use mouse gestures and a customized main menu
[05:07] <kkathman> panels....you mean layers of the kicker?
[05:08] <smouche> well, yeah, like, you know, panels.
[05:08] <chavo> plus most apps I use are autostarted with the session anyway.
[05:08] <kkathman> dont understand "panels
[05:08] <smouche> that's what they're called.
[05:08] <claydoh> lwizardl: so...?
[05:08] <smouche> right click on the kicker, kathman.
[05:08] <smouche> "Add to panel" etc
[05:09] <lwizardl> i can get upto 1024x768
[05:09] <kkathman> right... the kicker
[05:09] <claydoh> sweet:)
[05:09] <lwizardl> but on windows i get 1280 something
[05:10] <claydoh> now to figure out monitor settings I guess
[05:10] <kkathman> smouche dont you still have to add your app to the CC menu then put it on the kicker?
[05:10] <claydoh> but I am not so good there
[05:10] <lwizardl> what was it i typed to get that installed (want to write it down just incase)
[05:10] <smouche> why, kkathman?
[05:11] <smouche> for shortcuts, you mean?
[05:11] <smouche> I just took my time going through everything in Regional and Accessibility
[05:11] <kkathman> well, when you add an application to the panel, it brings up the control menu :)
[05:12] <smouche> uh, I dunno, kkathman, I'm not following you...
[05:12] <claydoh> lwizardl: sudo apt-get install  linux-restricted-modules-386, though it was already installed on your system
[05:13] <claydoh> and sudo kwrite /etc/X11/xorg.conf for editing the config file
[05:13] <kkathman> smouche... ok lets say I want to put our new Konq on the panel
[05:13] <smouche> my panels now are mostly just for a couple of folders and the pager thing, and clocks, tray, taskbar etc
[05:13] <lwizardl> edited the dri line 40
[05:13] <smouche> kkathman, you can do that by, let me see how I did that, one sec
[05:14] <kkathman> I have 2 options  1) create it on the control panel and drag it to the panel, or 2) Create an Icon on the desktop and just drag that to the panel
[05:14] <smouche> kkathman, try this:
[05:14] <smouche> Add to panel : Special Button : Non-kde application
[05:14] <kkathman> if you say "Add to Panel" and try to add an Application, then it only brings up the control panel to choose from
[05:14] <smouche> and edit accordingly
[05:15] <kkathman> ok that might work too :) Good job :)
[05:15] <smouche> kkathman, use "non-kde application" -- even though it's kde
[05:15] <kkathman> but still Im not sure that I want 25 icons on my kde kicker
[05:15] <kkathman> but I can try it
[05:17] <smouche> kkathman, you sure as hell don't want 25 icons on there, but anyway, setup shortcuts!  I use the windows logo thing a lot, 'cause it's not reserved for other stuff
[05:17] <smouche> plus, kkathman, I've got a transparent Eterm (and yeah, my fonts ok, I don't know why you can't change yours) on every desktop, and I run stuff from there
[05:18] <claydoh> lwizardl: I put some edits to your pastebin 
[05:18] <kkathman> another thing I dont like is that on the kicker, there isnt a mouse over or tool tip. There is but only if you want it to be big enough so Stevie Wonder can see it
[05:18] <kkathman> I dont use Eterm
[05:18] <chavo> kkathman, you can disable the big tooltip.
[05:19] <claydoh> lwizardl: I added  "1280x1024" to line 107
[05:19] <kkathman> chavo...oh wow and get a smaller one?
[05:19] <kkathman> i know how to disable the tool tip
[05:19] <kkathman> but can I get a smaller one?
[05:19] <smouche> gotcha kkathman
[05:19] <smouche> in configure panel
[05:20] <claydoh> lwizardl: you can try to add that and do a crtl-alt-backspace to restart x
[05:20] <chavo> kkathman, disabling the big one should revert to a normal tooltip.
[05:20] <kkathman> chavo am I right that this is done through the control center?
[05:20] <claydoh> lwizardl: if it can't use 1280x1024 for some reason it will go to 1024x768 automatically iirc
[05:20] <smouche> in appearance tab, kkathman, uncheck the thing for mouseover effect
[05:20] <chavo> kkathman, yes or right clicking panel
[05:21] <nate_> howdy :)
[05:21] <kkathman> i.e. panels -> Appearance?
[05:22] <smouche> yes
[05:22] <nate_> anyone know a good firewall for ubuntu?
[05:22] <smouche> right click on a panel, er kicker, click Configure panel, then appearance.
[05:22] <kkathman> well I clicked OFF the "Enable icon mouseover effects" and clicked off "show tooltips" and there is nothing there
[05:22] <lwizardl> so i can try that and not fubar my system
[05:23] <smouche> well, dude, you have to click ON "show tooltips" don't you?
[05:23] <chavo> kkathman, click on tooltips
[05:23] <kkathman> ok can I change what that says somewhere?
[05:24] <kkathman> never mind I found it
[05:24] <smouche> what what says?
[05:24] <chavo> yeah you can change the tooltip
[05:24] <nate_> anyone?  firewall?
[05:24] <kkathman> I got it :)
[05:24] <kkathman> kewl
[05:24] <kkathman> you guyz rock
[05:25] <smouche> chavo, how do you change the tooltip?  I don't see that
[05:25] <kkathman> nate_: I think one is built in, but firestarter is a graphical one
[05:25] <kkathman> you can get that with apt-get
[05:25] <nate_> kkathman: is the built in one any good?
[05:25] <nate_> kkathman: cuz i don't wanna be vulnerable, you know
[05:25] <chavo> smouche, you have to edit the menu entry
[05:26] <smouche> ah, i see now, thanks chavo
[05:26] <kkathman> nate_: yeah I think it is according to a few people here. I was going to enable the firestarter one, but figureed I already had a NAT router...I didnt need that 
[05:27] <nate_> nat is hardly protection
[05:27] <smouche> kkathman, I tried that ShieldsUp site a few days ago, and my system scored great, but the site didn't seem to notice I was running Linux
[05:27] <nate_> but its something, which is better than nothing
[05:27] <smouche> do you know what's up with that?  It was talking as if I had windows
[05:27] <kkathman> smouche: the whole point was to see if your ports were open
[05:27] <nate_> smouche: ShieldsUp?
[05:27] <kkathman> thats all
[05:28] <kkathman> it just grabs your IP and sees if it can probe the most common ports
[05:28] <smouche> well, my router and whatever linux uses seem damn good!  heh heh, unless maybe my ISP is blocking more than I figured on...
[05:28] <kkathman> most likely, in Linux case, those ports arent through NetBios of course, so theres no dangers
[05:28] <smouche> nate_ yeah, it's a web site that will probe your ports for you
[05:28] <smouche> lemme see if I have the url
[05:29] <nate_> smouche: cool
[05:29] <kkathman> dumb question: is there a way to see whats in my "trash"
[05:29] <kkathman> ?
[05:29] <kkathman> www.grc.com and follow the links
[05:29] <nate_> kkathman: from command line?
[05:29] <smouche> nate_  https://grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2
[05:29] <kkathman> yeah thats the direct
[05:29] <smouche> damn, that's a weird looking url
[05:30] <smouche> hah hah
[05:31] <kkathman> nate_: anywhere...I just want to know if I have to actually empty the trash like I do in windoz
[05:31] <chavo> kkathman, you can add a trash icon to the desktop, or a panel applet, or go to trash:/ in konq
[05:32] <nate_> kkathman: just click the trash, it brings up the lil menu
[05:33] <kkathman> nate_: where do I click "the trash"
[05:35] <smouche> on the icon, kkathman
[05:36] <kkathman> in konq?
[05:36] <kkathman> I dont have a trash icon on my desktop
[05:36] <smouche> kkathman, just add one to your kicker
[05:36] <nate_> its an icon on the default kde bar
[05:36] <smouche> right click, add to panel, you know the rest...
[05:37] <nate_> kkathman: applet>trash
[05:37] <smouche> kkathman, I'm kinda surprised you didn't have one on there by default anyway
[05:37] <kkathman> got it
[05:37] <kkathman> nope I never did
[05:38] <smouche> take some time and kick the tires on that kicker, kkathman!
[05:38] <nate_> as I thought, only one port open in shieldsup
[05:38] <nate_> and ident is closed
[05:38] <nate_> all else is stealth
[05:38] <kkathman> yep thats the way it should be
[05:39] <nate_> so no need for a firewall
[05:40] <smouche> well, as I think kkathman pointed out, you've basically got one already, firestarter's just a front end for tweaking it -- I think...?
[05:40] <nate_> actually, firestarted allows you to detect hackers probing
[05:40] <kkathman> right
[05:40] <nate_> pretty cool
[05:40] <kkathman> I dont think I'd use the NAT in ubuntu if you already have a NAT on your router for instance
[05:40] <kkathman> kinda redundant
[05:41] <smouche> you can say that again
[05:41] <nate_> yeah, i wouldn't use that
[05:41] <nate_> adds latency
[05:42] <kkathman> yep
[05:42] <kkathman> smouche...excellent idea I got my kicker loaded now, and down to only 7 icons on the desktop
[05:43] <smouche> man, I'm glad i got opera.  Firefox can't even display gmail without spazzing out.
[05:43] <kkathman> 1 for each of 4 samba shares, 1 for CD, Konsole and Email
[05:43] <kkathman> Opera 8 is great
[05:43] <kkathman> I just removed the CD hehe
[05:45] <smouche> yeah, I thought I was dependant on icons on there, it was just habit.
[05:45] <chavo> kkathman, you can also make another kicker with all of your shortcuts and make it autohide
[05:45] <kkathman> is that another instance of kicker?
[05:46] <chavo> that's what I did till I discovered the mouse gestures.
[05:46] <pussfeller> if you think about it, you really shouldnt ever hardly see your desktop
[05:46] <kkathman> awww but my desktop is nice and I wanna see it :)
[05:46] <pussfeller> with virtual desktops, you can have all you apps fully open
[05:46] <kkathman> thats why I have 4 desktops :)
[05:46] <kkathman> right
[05:47] <chavo> kkathman, make a 5th desktop that's empty for when you want to look at your desktop :)
[05:47] <pussfeller> i do kinda miss tweaking the desktop, but its pointless
[05:47] <smouche> you know, kathman, another cool thing is , you can drag a folder onto a panel too, that can be convenient for direct access to files, and it gives you a link to open an instance of konq in that location if you want
[05:47] <admrl> lol its so much fun tho
[05:47] <pussfeller> for me anyways, i would have to close a window to launch something
[05:47] <transgress> anyone care to suggest a good webcam program for kde?
[05:47] <transgress> especially if you know of one that can communicate with windows
[05:48] <admrl> i just read sumthing about ppl working on it sum gnome project for gaim
[05:48] <chavo> you can also open up the menu edtor, make a folder with all your apps, then put that as a sunmenu on kicker
[05:48] <pussfeller> transgress, theres a very beta netmeeting compatible kde app, but you probably want gnomemeeting 
[05:48] <admrl> making webcams work w/ windows
[05:48] <transgress> gnomemeeting requires gnome
[05:48] <pussfeller> yeah
[05:48] <kkathman> chavo...oh of course..that makes sense
[05:48] <transgress> don't want that heh
[05:49] <pussfeller> and the NAT issues are a pain
[05:49] <transgress> yeah
[05:49] <kkathman> transgress good evening (or whatever time it is where you are ) :)
[05:49] <transgress> nearly 11pm here heh
[05:49] <kkathman> hmm you and I are in the same time zone then
[05:50] <pussfeller> theres a gaim fork that commects to a few protocols with voice, video but its supposedly really grody hack
[05:50] <chavo> close to midnight here in Florida
[05:50] <smouche> kkathman, can I send you a screen shot with kopete?
[05:50] <admrl> lol you cant send stuff w/ kopete i dont think
[05:50] <transgress> damned kopete can sort of do it... with _gnomemeeting_ ... i find that dumbass.
[05:50] <kkathman> smouche let me bring that up
[05:50] <transgress> admrl: yes you can
[05:51] <admrl> really!
[05:51] <admrl> damnit
[05:51] <admrl> lol
[05:51] <transgress> yeah just rightclick the name in your buddy list
[05:51] <kkathman> smouche what protocol?? AIM?? MSN??
[05:51] <admrl> i never tried that
[05:51] <transgress> admrl: NAT sucks with it too though
[05:51] <pussfeller> i'm surprised no one has come up with a open source vv client
[05:51] <transgress> vv?
[05:51] <pussfeller> voice video
[05:51] <smouche> uh, yahoo, kkathman
[05:52] <transgress> ah
[05:52] <transgress> like gnomemeeting?
[05:52] <pussfeller> even if you had to run a seperate app
[05:52] <pussfeller> but that only connects to netmeeting
[05:52] <pussfeller> which is grody
[05:52] <pussfeller> you can run paltalk via wine...
[05:53] <pussfeller> dont know if the video works tho
[05:54] <admrl> im feeling wierd being in a new room i havnt been on irc since hbx.us started 2 suck
[05:54] <admrl> its good being w/ ppl that know what they r talking about
[05:55] <admrl> michigan were there r lots of amish is not a good place 2 learn about computers
[05:55] <kkathman> admrl: well pussfeller, transgress and KaiL know what they are talking about...the rest of us just hack around
[05:55] <admrl> lol
[05:56] <admrl> its definately ok
[05:57] <admrl> ok libvorbis0 i wanna install it so i can play tuxracer cuz its a really badass game lol does anyone know how i can do that cuz it says it wont work cuz libvorbis0a is installed and if i uninstall it uninstalls a buncha my apps
[05:57] <admrl> anyone have idea what 2 do..?
[05:58] <Diablo-D3> You could learn to speak english.
[05:59] <admrl> Sorry about that
[05:59] <crimsun> why libvorbis0? it's obsoleted
[05:59] <admrl> libvorbis0 is a requirement for tuxracer
[05:59] <crimsun> from which repo?
[05:59] <admrl> repo..?
[06:00] <rommer> ..sitory
[06:02] <admrl> whats a repository
[06:02] <admrl> is it sum debian thing..?
[06:02] <admrl> ive never heard one before
[06:03] <rommer> u know what apt-get is right?
[06:03] <admrl> yes but i dont know how 2 use it i get the whatever.deb by searching firefox
[06:04] <admrl> this is my first time using anything debian based
[06:05] <admrl> probly a bad way 2 get things..?
[06:06] <admrl> idk firefox has that bar and its got the little debian thing and ive been using that
[06:10] <closure> admrl, dpkg
[06:12] <kkathman> anyone have Yahoo that could IM me real quick to check something out
[06:13] <admrl> how can i find the pid of a process so i can kill it..?
[06:14] <admrl> E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11 Resource temporarily unavailable)
[06:14] <admrl> E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another process using it?
[06:14] <admrl> i keep getting this
[06:14] <kkathman> CTRL_ESC will give you a list of running processes and their PIDs
[06:14] <admrl> thanx
[06:16] <closure> admrl, you need to sudo
[06:16] <closure> kkathman, that opens my kmenu
[06:16] <closure> but that will come in handy
[06:18] <smouche> any kopete users on here having a problem with contacts always showing as offline, even when they're actually online?
[06:18] <admrl> ya i have been doing sudo
[06:19] <nate____> ugh, flaky connection
[06:20] <nate____> Anyone know if the ipw2100 driver supports WPA?
[06:22] <smouche> well, kkathman, either kopete sucks, or one of our port settings is screwy...
[06:29] <narg> gah
[06:29] <narg> firefox STILL crashed
[06:29] <narg> ubuntu-desktop is even installed
[06:35] <closure> dude
[06:35] <closure> firefox sucks
[06:35] <closure> narg, get mozilla browser
[06:35] <closure> it's straight
[06:36] <closure> some things are kinda weird but over all it's the best choice if you as me
[06:36] <closure> ask
[06:36] <smouche> alright, I am getting to bed before 1 am, that's a record, g'night all!
[06:36] <narg> If im going to switch browsers, Id switch to konq :p
[06:37] <closure> konq sucks too
[06:37] <closure> well at least this one
[06:44] <kkathman> I switched to Opera once 8 came out...its very nice
[06:46] <closure> kkathman, there is no package for that damn thing
[06:46] <closure> atleast i can't find it if there is
[06:48] <kkathman> closure no
[06:48] <kkathman> but its very easy to install
[06:48] <closure> oh really
[06:48] <kkathman> download the Debian Sarge deb from their site
[06:48] <kkathman> then do a dpkg-i on it
[06:49] <kkathman> you may need to apt-get the lib3c-mt library but it will tell you if you do
[06:49] <kkathman> then you are off to the races
[06:50] <closure> but i don't have a helmet kkathman!
[06:50] <kkathman> rofl
[06:50] <kkathman> nah its not that bad at all
[06:52] <closure> COMCAST Thank You For Your Order!
[06:52] <closure> On demand cable is cool
[06:52] <closure> but such a rip off
[06:53] <kkathman> haha
[06:55] <closure> kkathman, does opera support multimedia in website?
[06:56] <kkathman> yes
[06:56] <kkathman> you have to get the plugins of course...like flash, etc
[06:57] <kkathman> I personally have only flash and java installed right now I think
[07:01] <closure> oh man
[07:02] <closure> that's lame
[07:02] <closure> it's got a banner ad on it
[07:28] <kkathman> whew people scooted out fast :)
[07:28] <marcelo> crimsun?
[07:28] <kkathman> havent seen him tonight
[07:29] <marcelo> thanks.
[07:30] <kkathman> sorry bout that
[07:30] <marcelo> He told me to get 686 kernel... so I did. But `uname -r` still accuses: 386... is there anything I must do?
[07:30] <kkathman> not sure thats not ok...but you'll need to ask him
[07:31] <marcelo> cool.
[07:31] <marcelo> thanks again.
[07:31] <kkathman> sure
[07:34] <kkathman> hey closure
[07:34] <closure> hey
[07:36] <kkathman> Opera 8 come up oK?
[07:37] <closure> didn't install it
[07:37] <closure> it said it had banner ads on it
[07:37] <kkathman> yeah well you can get rid of those :)
[07:38] <kkathman> you just need a key
[07:38] <kkathman> lots of those around if you are industrious or you can pay $30 or so
[07:39] <closure> i am a pirate
[07:39] <kkathman> Im trying to figure out how one gets the sensors on their motherboard to respond to a superkaramba them
[07:39] <kkathman> theme
[07:40] <closure> pretty good movie
[07:40] <kkathman> hmm havent seen that one
[07:40] <shogouki> garden state, with n portman ?
[07:40] <closure> yeah
[07:40] <shogouki> good movie :)
[07:40] <closure> she's a hottie
[07:41] <closure> i wanted to see it in the theaters but the latino bitch i was dating never wanted to go
[07:42] <kkathman> mmmm natalie portman :)
[07:42] <kkathman> probably latina I'd think :)
[07:42] <kkathman> anyone know python?
[07:42] <shogouki> a bit
[07:43] <kkathman> dang they ought to give instructions with these karamba themes
[07:43] <shogouki> i watch some superkaramba sensors and i think karamaba is evil
[07:43] <kkathman> shogouki:  see what you can make out here
[07:43] <kkathman> text x=220 y=30 sensor=program program="/path/to/mails_pop3.pl server user password" line=1 color=255,255,255 align=right fontsize=12 font="nimbus sans l" interval=30000
[07:43] <kkathman> whats that path to mails thing?
[07:44] <shogouki> its path to the perl script mails_pop3 i guess
[07:45] <kkathman> hmm ok
[07:45] <kkathman> oh well
[07:46] <kkathman> there must be a way to get the temp and fan speed stuff too
[07:46] <closure> kkathman, give me a key >8-)
[07:46] <kkathman> but heck if I know
[07:47] <kkathman> closure...1 sec
[07:52] <kkathman> closure IM
[07:52] <kkathman> uhmm PM
[07:56] <closure> alright now wtf
[07:56] <closure> i can't load myspace
[07:56] <kkathman> myspace?
[07:57] <closure> are password files safe in opera?
[07:57] <closure> kkathman, www.myspace.com 
[07:57] <kkathman> I'd say they are
[07:57] <closure> it's a networking type site
[07:58] <closure> cause mozilla sucks
[07:58] <closure> you can just click a button and it shows your saved passwords
[07:58] <kkathman> but I never take chances by putting credit card #s etc in there
[07:58] <kkathman> Opera is at least 2-3x faster than firefox and more efficient
[07:59] <closure> yeah
[07:59] <closure> i'm seeing this
[07:59] <closure> now if it is just stable it will be on like donkey kong
[07:59] <kkathman> it loads alot faster too
[07:59] <closure> seems 31337
[07:59] <closure> indeed
[08:00] <closure> it loaded fast as hell
[08:00] <kkathman> I downloaded some of the skins...and been messing with it straight on since yesterday..no crashes or anything
[08:00] <closure> goood goooood
[08:01] <kkathman> I changed all the fonts to that Bitstream vera sans or whatever its called
[08:01] <kkathman> and its clear as a bell
[08:02] <kkathman> you look at CNN.com on Firefox then look at it in Opera...theres a big difference in my opinion
[08:02] <closure> i don't believe in CNN
[08:03] <kkathman> well thats an example because its fairly aggressive in colors and fonts and menus
[08:03] <kkathman> MSNBC if you want or BBC whatever
[08:05] <closure> i do enjoy the BBC
[08:05] <closure> where do i find skins?
[08:08] <kkathman> tools -> appearance
[08:08] <kkathman> first tab
[08:09] <kkathman> Im trying to figure out how I open links in a new tab
[08:09] <kkathman> I know thats possible
[08:11] <closure> hrm
[08:11] <closure> damn now i gotta redo all my configs!
[08:12] <closure> natalie portman is adorable in this movie
[08:12] <kkathman> ahh you just drag it to the tab bar...easy
[08:12] <kkathman> shes adorable in ANY movie :)
[08:12] <closure> i love my artificial OSX
[08:13] <kkathman> artificial OSX??
[08:13] <klaus> Hi..
[08:14] <closure> baghira theme
[08:14] <kkathman> hey Klause?
[08:14] <closure> and i skin everything to look like osX
[08:14] <kkathman> ah yes I understand
[08:15] <kkathman> shift click in Opera also forces a link to a new tab
[08:18] <closure> nice
[08:18] <closure> dude
[08:18] <closure> if you do "opera -newpage"
[08:18] <closure> in your Kontrol Center
[08:18] <closure> it will open in a new tab
[08:18] <closure> that's all i've been wanting for the longest time
[08:20] <kkathman> opera -newpage....ok what does that buy me?
[08:20] <kkathman> you mean default browser right?
[08:20] <closure> yeah
[08:20] <closure> it opens links you click in a new tab
[08:20] <kkathman> nice
[08:21] <kkathman> very nice
[08:21] <closure> yeah fo real
[08:23] <closure> kkathman, where the hell do i get the flash plugins and such
[08:27] <kkathman> ok
[08:28] <kkathman> well you go to the macromedia site and look for flash plugin for linux
[08:28] <kkathman> or
[08:28] <kkathman> go to some site that has a flash and it will usually auto link you there
[08:28] <kkathman> then have it install and then just go into the plugins and tell opera where it is
[08:29] <kkathman> but there are still some weird things in Linux...for instance if you go to a movie site usually it will want Windows media Player...and I havent figured out how to get around that
[08:30] <closure> where's the multimedia site?
[08:30] <kkathman> I think you have to download those w32codecs, install those and then set a default movie player for .wmv suffix but Im not sure
[08:30] <closure> kkathman, you can't get around it
[08:30] <closure> it's in the coding to run wmp
[08:31] <kkathman> arggh
[08:31] <kkathman> oh well
[08:32] <kkathman> theres a way around it...just gotta find someone thats more of a hacker than me :)
[08:32] <kkathman> hehe
[08:33] <closure> where's the multimedia page kkathman 
[08:34] <BrettMeister> Does Kubuntu perform faster and cleaner than Ubuntu with the whole Kubuntu package added?
[08:34] <closure> ?
[08:37] <rommer> it is the same thing, just a different windows manager
[08:37] <rommer> -s
[08:38] <kkathman> well no it isnt a different one
[08:38] <rommer> kde is different to gnome
[08:38] <kkathman> the only difference, is when you install the Kunbuntu disk of Ubuntu you install KDE only. If you install Ubuntu, then apt-get kubuntu-desktop you get Gnome and KDE
[08:39] <kkathman> the latter is preferable incase you hose your KDE environment
[08:42] <Diablo-D3> heh
[08:42] <Diablo-D3> the later is preferable because too many fucking apps use gnome
[08:42] <closure> you just need the gnome lib
[08:43] <Diablo-D3> closure: thats not entirely true
[08:43] <Diablo-D3> gnome 'depends' on a lot of optional programs and libraries
[08:43] <Diablo-D3> they'd get installed by ubuntu-desktop, but not by the individual programs/libraries
[08:44] <kkathman> I know that there are alot of people that come in here with really basic probs and it seems that the majority installed Kubuntu.
[08:45] <kkathman> as opposed to hoary then apt-getting k-d
[08:45] <Diablo-D3> yeah
[08:45] <Diablo-D3> yup
[08:45] <Diablo-D3> and thats why I think kubuntu-desktop should require ubuntu-desktop
[08:45] <Diablo-D3> better yet
[08:45] <Diablo-D3> replace u-d with ku-d, and ditch gnome and all gtk apps altogether
[08:46] <Diablo-D3> MWHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!
[08:46] <kkathman> lol
[08:46] <Diablo-D3> ... *ahem*
[08:46] <kkathman> well there are some nice gtk apps
[08:46] <Diablo-D3> btw, this is why I'm working on my new plan of action
[08:46] <kkathman> GAIM still is leaps and bounds better than Kopete for instance
[08:46] <Diablo-D3> a desktop environment SO BADASS...
[08:46] <Diablo-D3> that it kills gnome and kde
[08:46] <Diablo-D3> instantly
[08:46] <Diablo-D3> and it kills X
[08:46] <Diablo-D3> and it kills Windows
[08:46] <Diablo-D3> and OSX
[08:46] <Diablo-D3> and ataris
[08:47] <Diablo-D3> and os/2
[08:47] <Diablo-D3> and beos
[08:47] <Diablo-D3> and my next door neighbors
[08:47] <Diablo-D3> who are really annoying
[08:47] <Diablo-D3> and those pesky martians
[08:47] <kkathman> ROFL
[08:47] <Diablo-D3> who steal cows
[08:47] <kkathman> and dont forget the LA Lakers
[08:47] <Diablo-D3> it will also solve world hunger
[08:47] <Diablo-D3> and cure cancer
[08:47] <Diablo-D3> and it will turn the la lakers into a good team
[08:48] <Diablo-D3> which, btw, is the hardest of the clames
[08:48] <Diablo-D3> *claims
[08:48] <Diablo-D3> it may even fix my spelling
[08:48] <Diablo-D3> no promises there
[08:48] <kkathman> lol
[08:49] <closure> kkathman, how did you install java and such?
[08:49] <kkathman> ooo thats a tricky one
[08:49] <Diablo-D3> apt-get install java
[08:49] <kkathman> I'd start with just the JRE first
[08:49] <Diablo-D3> j/k
[08:50] <Diablo-D3> what we really need is a fully compliant gnu java implementation
[08:51] <kkathman> download the sun-j2re deb from http://backports.ubuntuforums.org/backports/dists/hoary-extras/restricted/binary-i386
[08:52] <kkathman> wont that be hard Diablo-D3  seeing that Sun would probably NOT put java in the PD
[08:52] <Diablo-D3> actually what we really need to do is stop using java apps
[08:52] <Diablo-D3> because java is a lame language
[08:52] <kkathman> I think the SDK is there also
[08:53] <closure> kkathman, which one do i need
[08:53] <kkathman> ok...am I crazy...but are all java apps like snail slow?
[08:53] <kkathman> closure you'll need both
[08:53] <Diablo-D3> you're crazy
[08:53] <Diablo-D3> but yes, all java apps are slow like shit
[08:53] <kkathman> I didnt find that site until I had installed the JDK the hard way
[08:54] <kkathman> Diablo-D3: yeah I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy it
[08:54] <Diablo-D3> kkathman: I'm not only a member, I'm the president!
[08:55] <Diablo-D3> My brain is really a vault of pop culture references.
[08:55] <kkathman> I have never run a java app that was efficient
[08:55] <kkathman> the OO revolution just doesnt turn me on
[08:55] <Diablo-D3> I have... no wait, sorry.
[08:56] <kkathman> Im not at all sure that OO even buys you long term efficiencies
[08:56] <Diablo-D3> no no, kkathman 
[08:56] <Diablo-D3> java is so fucking fat, that other languages revolve around it
[08:56] <kkathman> ROFL
[08:56] <kkathman> damn straight
[08:57] <kkathman> they are about to ruin PHP because 5 started almost FORCING you to OO
[08:57] <kkathman> but i'll not go quietly :)
[08:57] <Diablo-D3> that implies php is a real language
[08:58] <kkathman> well in my opinion, its the best scripting language for web sites 
[08:58] <Diablo-D3> but yeah, OO does win you shit
[08:58] <shogouki> "use python, luke"
[08:58] <Diablo-D3> case in point, the glory that is Objective C.
[08:58] <kkathman> but its not a pure "programming" language like C++, Pascal, FORTRAN, COBOL etal
[08:58] <Diablo-D3> its as pure as it gets.
[08:58] <Diablo-D3> its more pure than c++ is
[08:59] <shogouki> what do you mean by pure ?
[08:59] <Diablo-D3> atleast objc is a strict superset of C
[08:59] <Diablo-D3> c++ isnt
[08:59] <kkathman> hey Kisain :)
[08:59] <Diablo-D3> ergo, c++ meets the formal definition of 'funky'.
[08:59] <Kisain> hi :)
[08:59] <Kisain> havin some problems with my box :(
[09:00] <kkathman> but hell, you want programming...lets get down with a 60-bit assembler language :)
[09:00] <Diablo-D3> Also, objc is so goddamn cool, it can be implemented just as a preprocessor for C.
[09:00] <shogouki> eiffel is a pure langage
[09:00] <Kisain> like it takes 3 to five minutes for it to boot :(
[09:00] <shogouki> (and thats not cause im french :)
[09:00] <Diablo-D3> eiffel is also dead.
[09:00] <shogouki> well, yes
[09:00] <kkathman> eiffel IS dead
[09:00] <Diablo-D3> shogouki: booo
[09:01] <Diablo-D3> shuddup before I summon an unholy beast
[09:01] <shogouki> and what ? we're not talking about every-day langages, but of 'pure' ones
[09:01] <Kisain> any idea why?
[09:01] <Diablo-D3> and someone has to use the eiffel tower as lightning rod to destroy it
[09:01] <Diablo-D3> kkathman: er, I am not a 14 year old japanese girl
[09:01] <Kisain> well before that it was one of the most powerfull radio transmitters in the world during wwII
[09:02] <Diablo-D3> Kisain: of course
[09:02] <Diablo-D3> its a giant ass peice of metal
[09:02] <Kisain> i know
[09:02] <Diablo-D3> I wonder how wifiable it is
[09:02] <Kisain> thats really neat
[09:02] <shogouki> dont touch my tour
[09:02] <Kisain> it was only supposed to stand for a few weeks lol
[09:02] <shogouki> tower*
[09:02] <Kisain> wifi in the eiffle? 
[09:03] <Diablo-D3> well, eventually the tower will be destroyed
[09:03] <Kisain> holysit it would have a huge range i'd think
[09:03] <Diablo-D3> as will all of paris
[09:03] <Diablo-D3> and all of france
[09:03] <Diablo-D3> and all of europe
[09:03] <Diablo-D3> and all of the world
[09:03] <Kisain> hey i'm polish french
[09:03] <Diablo-D3> and people will be quoting the scripture
[09:03] <Kisain> i don't want to see it desttroyed
[09:03] <shogouki> Kisain: polite french ? ;)
[09:03] <Kisain> and yes that means i'm a dumb frenchman
[09:03] <Kisain> lol :)
[09:03] <shogouki> we are everywhere
[09:04] <Kisain> so anyone have any idea?
[09:04] <Diablo-D3> And the earth turned grey
[09:04] <Diablo-D3> and the sea turned black
[09:04] <Kisain> why my box takes 3-5 minutes to boot now?
[09:04] <Diablo-D3> and the rivers ran red
[09:04] <Diablo-D3> and the sun turned cold
[09:04] <Diablo-D3> and the beast turned pale
[09:04] <Diablo-D3> and the stars turned fast
[09:04] <Diablo-D3> and the air turned to poison
[09:04] <shogouki> (everywhere except in irak, thought)
[09:04] <kkathman> Kisain sounds about right
[09:05] <Diablo-D3> and poof.
[09:05] <Diablo-D3> 3-5 minutes? wtf
[09:05] <Kisain> what it was bootin in less than 30 secs when i first set it up
[09:05] <Diablo-D3> I almost dread installing ubuntu
[09:05] <Diablo-D3> I'll miss my 15-20 second startup times
[09:05] <kkathman> Kisain: well maybe it has more stuff to check yanno you did set things up
[09:05] <Kisain> true i diden't think of that
[09:06] <Kisain> i have howrver noticed one hell of a screensaver glitch
[09:06] <kkathman> I honestly dont know how long mine takes to reboot..Ive only rebooted it once since I installed
[09:06] <Kisain> as in ubuntu screensavers don't seem to like kubuntu
[09:06] <Diablo-D3> ak
[09:06] <kkathman> I have never gotten the screensavers to work period
[09:06] <Diablo-D3> afk
[09:06] <Kisain> mine can take anyware from 3:32sec to 5min 14 secs
[09:07] <Kisain> i timed it
[09:07] <kkathman> MIne wont go into SS mode
[09:07] <shogouki> Kisain: your boot make a good tea timer 
[09:07] <Kisain> and i managed to crash the hell outa my box yesterday
[09:07] <Kisain> yea lol
[09:07] <Kisain> i have one i downloaded for my earl grey
[09:08] <Kisain> i was wondering if anywone wanted to help me test a free game in cedega.....
[09:08] <Kisain> i'm not savvy enough yet to do the error shit myself
[09:08] <Kisain> and there are errors
[09:09] <Kisain> i would of course provide a free version of cedega
[09:09] <Kisain> ^_^
[09:10] <Kisain> but ya gotta not tell anyone shhhhhh;)
[09:10] <Kisain> lol
[09:10] <shogouki> 'free'game ?
[09:10] <Kisain> yes
[09:10] <Kisain> it's a free online rpg
[09:10] <shogouki> i free win game with no linux port ?
[09:11] <Kisain> with better graphics than diablo3
[09:11] <shogouki> s/i/a
[09:11] <Kisain> s/i/s?/
[09:11] <Kisain> a? i mean
[09:11] <Kisain> lol
[09:11] <Kisain> just woke up
[09:12] <Kisain> http://aerogaming.net/forum/index.php?act=home
[09:12] <Kisain> it's a version of ragnarok online that i can't seem to get to run incedega
[09:12] <Kisain> it starts and then crashes so hardcore that the box forms ice :(
[09:13] <Kisain> than it becomes an ice box loll
[09:13] <shogouki> the site is not attractive
[09:15] <Kisain> i know it's not
[09:15] <Kisain> but the game is so damn addictive
[09:15] <Kisain> and i can't play it in cedega :(
[09:16] <Kisain> i don't know enough about troubleshooting yet to be usefull
[09:16] <Kisain> plus my linux for dummies books are still on order :P
[09:17] <Kisain> i did howvr manage to use my n00b experiance to get teamspeak up and fully functioning
[09:18] <kkathman> Get the Linux Bible 2005 edition thats a fairly decent reference, if you want a book on your bookshelf
[09:18] <Kisain> but for some reason the sound card will let only one program use it at a time :(
[09:18] <Kisain> kk
[09:19] <Kisain> well i'll start of with the dummies one i think it'll be easyer for me to understand
[09:19] <kkathman> Diablo-D3: you back?
[09:19] <Kisain> but i'll get both
[09:19] <Kisain> how do i make it so more than once programm can access my soundcard?
[09:19] <kkathman> Kisain: the dummies books get a little silly, but on the whole they arent that bad
[09:20] <Kisain> i knda figure
[09:20] <kkathman> Kisain: at the same time?
[09:20] <Kisain> yea
[09:20] <Kisain> i have 2 programs when one is running the other won't
[09:20] <kkathman> hmm dont understand that one
[09:20] <Kisain> they both require the sound card to run
[09:20] <kkathman> wonder if its the sound card?
[09:20] <Kisain> try running teamspeak and playin a movie at the same time
[09:21] <Kisain> you'll be able to do one or the other
[09:21] <Kisain> but not both
[09:21] <kkathman> I dont even have sound enabled on my Linux box
[09:21] <Kisain> wow that sucks 
[09:21] <kkathman> nah
[09:21] <kkathman> I got a Win box with an Audigy and about 30 gb of music
[09:22] <kkathman> not a problem I got music out my butt :)
[09:22] <Kisain> yea i need to expand my music collection but don't know if there's any file sharing programs for linux
[09:23] <Kisain> actually i'm not shure about any of the programs just yet :/
[09:23] <Kisain> all i know is i want to get this one game to run and i'd be happy
[09:23] <Kisain> i could convert my mainframe to linux then
[09:24] <Kisain> instead of having a linux box and a windows seespool
[09:24] <kkathman> well I have alot invested in my Win box
[09:24] <kkathman> I cant just throw that out ...Im not THAT idealistic
[09:24] <kkathman> but any new computers I get will run LInux
[09:25] <Kisain> i don't know if idealistic is what i'd call it......
[09:25] <kkathman> but in my house alone I have nine computers
[09:25] <kkathman> 3 of which are linux
[09:25] <Kisain> a virus attractant and linux would be oh lets see.......
[09:26] <Kisain> a hummer limo made outta gold :)
[09:26] <Kisain> i want windows offa both my machenes i only use the windows one
[09:26] <Kisain> to play this one game
[09:26] <Kisain> otherwize it's now usless and obsolete
[09:27] <kkathman> well say you had invested thousands of dollars in equipment...you dont just throw that away and say...nah.. Im good
[09:27] <kkathman> you use it
[09:27] <Kisain> i have invested 11,000 in stuff for my other system
[09:27] <Kisain> and i know linux could handle it
[09:27] <kkathman> but...I had two computers just sitting around not able to run anything anymore...but they damn sure ran linux
[09:27] <Kisain> if it can run on a system i found in the trash (this one) 
[09:28] <Kisain> it''ll run on the other
[09:28] <kkathman> Kisain well I cant say that..my Winbox has stuff on it that Linux just doesnt have available yet
[09:28] <kkathman> maybe it will someday, but not now
[09:28] <Kisain> maybe so 
[09:28] <Kisain> but linux still rox!!!!
[09:28] <kkathman> yep..and its great for small business
[09:29] <Kisain> well i'm hopin to use it for gaming
[09:29] <Kisain> if i can get it to run this one freakin game
[09:29] <Kisain> i can burn cd's surf the net check my e-mail
[09:30] <Kisain> and play alot of diffrent games
[09:30] <Kisain> what more do i need?
[09:30] <Kisain> oh waite i know
[09:30] <Kisain> a virus that'll slip through the firewall....
[09:30] <Kisain> waite thats windows.......
[09:30] <Kisain> slpas self in head
[09:31] <Kisain> i really want to get this one game to run :/
[09:31] <Diablo-D3> kkathman: what?
[09:31] <Kisain> and it sucks cause i'm to much of a freakin n00b to linux to figure it out :/
[09:31] <Kisain> aero online
[09:32] <Kisain> ragnarok will run but this one which is basicly the same thing just a difrent name won't
[09:32] <Diablo-D3> I'd like to mention that a) wine rocks b) wine, although quite rocking, sucks
[09:32] <Kisain> and it's makin me angry (turns green rips out programming) j/k
[09:33] <Kisain> is cedega wine?
[09:33] <Diablo-D3> yes
[09:33] <Kisain> or is it diffrent
[09:33] <Kisain> oh ok
[09:33] <Diablo-D3> its actually a certain species of wine grape
[09:33] <Kisain> cause i was just about to say i don't have wine
[09:33] <Kisain> lol
[09:33] <Diablo-D3> it used to be called wineX
[09:33] <Diablo-D3> its a commercial fork of wine
[09:33] <Kisain> ahhh i see
[09:34] <Diablo-D3> wine, in general, is a case where the concept is awesome, but the implementation sucks
[09:34] <torpid>  here's a funny email i just sent my friend stoned: http://brokenladder.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=96#96
[09:34] <kkathman> welcome back Diablo-D3 
[09:34] <Kisain> well i need to get a better pci vid card for my box so i can play my cs
[09:34] <Diablo-D3> now, its not their fault the implementation sucks, they work quite hard on it
[09:34] <torpid> running more than one copy of xchat at once offends the gods.
[09:34] <kkathman> got a hardware question that Im sure you can answer
[09:34] <Kisain> right now i'm stuck with a 16mb pci nvidia vanta lt :(
[09:34] <AzMoo> I've got a logitech wireless keyboard, and it's got all of the extra buttons and stuff on the top. Is there any way I can map them to different functions?
[09:34] <Diablo-D3> its just that windows sucks so hard, its almost impossible to match such suckyness
[09:35] <kkathman> rofl
[09:35] <Kisain> yes
[09:35] <warriorfr> hi
[09:35] <Diablo-D3> wine literally is too good for its own good
[09:35] <Diablo-D3> AzMoo: yeah
[09:35] <Diablo-D3> AzMoo: I dont know of any kde tools to do it, however
[09:35] <AzMoo> Diablo-D3, where should I start researching? :p
[09:35] <Kisain> gate should be strung up by his balls and beatten with a bag contaning all the copys of his shitty programming
[09:35] <Diablo-D3> kkathman: I dont see you asking questions.
[09:35] <Diablo-D3> AzMoo: not sure, try asking in #kde
[09:35] <kkathman> Diablo-D3: I have a really nice CD/DCD read/write device on my win box... From my main Linux box can I access that that and send files to it for backup?
[09:35] <Kisain> than dipped in gas and have a firecracker ssuved up is @$$ and lit
[09:36] <Diablo-D3> Kisain: not his
[09:36] <kkathman> sorry I was typing
[09:36] <Diablo-D3> remember, Bill is just a buisness man
[09:36] <kkathman> and thats DVD not DCD
[09:36] <Kisain> no he's a meglomaniac
[09:36] <Diablo-D3> kkathman: sure, if your win box ran linux
[09:36] <Kisain> bent on tricking everyone that his softwares actualy safe and secure
[09:36] <AzMoo> Diablo-D3, cheers.
[09:37] <kkathman> Kisain....he's really not a megalomanic
[09:37] <Diablo-D3> Kisain: since when was there ever a difference?
[09:37] <Kisain> dude he's the richest man i nthe world ok......
[09:37] <kkathman> Diablo-D3: hmmm...even if its a samba share?
[09:37] <Diablo-D3> Kisain: no hes not
[09:37] <Kisain> and he makes his wife and kids work
[09:37] <Diablo-D3> Im not even sure if hes in the top 10
[09:37] <Kisain> he won't give them money,......
[09:37] <Diablo-D3> dude, his wife _is a buisness woman_
[09:38] <Kisain> if i was he my family would never have to work again
[09:38] <Diablo-D3> she makes almost as much as he does
[09:38] <kkathman> and I applaud him making his kids work
[09:38] <Kisain> helll most of the town woulden't
[09:38] <Diablo-D3> and his kids have very decent jobs
[09:38] <Kisain> never said they diden't just think it's kinda mean
[09:38] <Diablo-D3> you wish you had a job that good
[09:38] <kkathman> not mean at all
[09:38] <Diablo-D3> You can find tons of faults in Bill, but these arent them.
[09:39] <Diablo-D3> its not mean, the jobs arnt 'jobs'
[09:39] <kkathman> just waht we need in the world..more spoiled damn rich brats?  At least he's making them work :)
[09:39] <Diablo-D3> just optional buisness training
[09:39] <Diablo-D3> hes training them to be his replacement
[09:39] <Diablo-D3> and from what I understand, they excel at it
[09:39] <kkathman> There are alot of things Bill Gates is, but stupid and uncaring arent two of them
[09:39] <Diablo-D3> booyah!: http://brokenladder.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=96#96
[09:40] <Kisain> never said he was stupid but he is uncaring to some degree
[09:40] <kkathman> for crying out loud his mentor was Warren Buffet :)
[09:40] <kkathman> and he's done pretty freakin good
[09:40] <Kisain> who's that?
[09:40] <kkathman> probably worth more than Bill
[09:40] <Diablo-D3> Yeah, uncaring Bill is not
[09:41] <Diablo-D3> now, he can be slightly cold to the unitiated
[09:41] <Diablo-D3> but he welcomes fellow geeks
[09:41] <Kisain> he is if he charges 199.99 for windows xp 
[09:41] <Kisain> thats just greedy
[09:41] <kkathman> Kisain Warren Buffet literally has the power to change investing every year
[09:41] <Diablo-D3> Kisain: not true.
[09:41] <Diablo-D3> As long as people pay that, he can charge it.
[09:41] <Diablo-D3> Remember that.
[09:42] <kkathman> I've met both Michael Dell and Bill Gates...neither is a monster and neither are uncaring about their families, their people or the world in general.
[09:42] <Diablo-D3> Micheal Dell is a bitchass punk
[09:42] <Kisain> yea but 200 a disk
[09:42] <kkathman> no he's not Diablo
[09:43] <kkathman> seriously hes not
[09:43] <Kisain> it costs what 20 cents to make?
[09:43] <Diablo-D3> Kisain: no
[09:43] <Diablo-D3> 200 a license
[09:43] <Diablo-D3> you get the disc 'free'
[09:43] <Kisain> thats still a rip off
[09:43] <Diablo-D3> infact, I can call up microsoft and pay shipping to get another one
[09:43] <Kisain> not everyone has a high payin job
[09:43] <kkathman> thats naive if you think that Kisain
[09:43] <Kisain> it took me 2 years to save up for windows xp
[09:43] <kkathman> and you know nothing about accounting
[09:44] <Kisain> never said i did
[09:44] <Diablo-D3> $200 is almost cheap for the ammount of money Microsoft crams into XP.
[09:44] <Kisain> but when your on a fixed income 200 dollars is an assload of money
[09:44] <Diablo-D3> Kisain: how much you making a year?
[09:44] <Kisain> less than 10,000
[09:44] <Diablo-D3> Because if its more than me, then stfu
[09:45] <Kisain> i lived offa my inheritance for a while
[09:45] <kkathman> Alot of people dont know how many copies of Windows XP and Office, and Visual Studio are given to people for ZIP...NOTHING ... ZERO
[09:45] <Diablo-D3> Heh, a tiny bit less than me
[09:45] <Diablo-D3> and for the record, I have an XP liscense.
[09:45] <Kisain> invested some of it payed for my house and bills with the rest
[09:45] <Diablo-D3> a fully legal one
[09:45] <Kisain> dude check it out....
[09:45] <Diablo-D3> and I dont make much more than you do
[09:45] <Kisain> i make 565.00 a month cause i'm disabled
[09:45] <Kisain> 460 goes to rent
[09:46] <Kisain> 71.00 for phone
[09:46] <Kisain> 20 for cats
[09:46] <Diablo-D3> I make $12k a year, and thats to take care of me and my elderly mother
[09:46] <Diablo-D3> 71?!?~?`
[09:46] <Diablo-D3> wtf?
[09:46] <Kisain> 56.00 for internet
[09:46] <Diablo-D3> I pay $12 fucking dollars
[09:46] <Diablo-D3> get rid of your goddamn motherfucking long distance, you fucking whiney bitch.
[09:46] <kkathman> hey buz
[09:46] <Kisain> yea i live in da u.p though
[09:46] <buz> what
[09:46] <Kisain> we only have one isp
[09:46] <Diablo-D3> If you're going to pretend to be a poor bastard, atleast do it right.
[09:47] <Kisain> the upper peninsula of michigan
[09:47] <Diablo-D3> and I pay $20 a month for my isp.
[09:47] <Kisain> dude i'm not poor i'm poo
[09:47] <Kisain> can't afford the r
[09:47] <Kisain> to expensive
[09:47] <kkathman> I dont pay a cent for my ISP :)
[09:47] <kkathman> my company pays it for me
[09:47] <Kisain> dude i have 20.00 for food the rest of the month
[09:47] <Diablo-D3> I'm actually more poor than you are
[09:48] <Kisain> i go to the food pantry to get everything i need
[09:48] <Diablo-D3> $2000 more a year does not a person feed.
[09:48] <Kisain> no but it does make things easyer
[09:48] <Diablo-D3> Remember, two people here have to eat
[09:49] <Kisain> i just think that 200.00 for a peace of plastic is a little much even for a licence
[09:49] <Diablo-D3> and food costs are very high thanks to the war
[09:49] <Kisain> yea i know
[09:49] <Kisain> if i diden't know that all the internet for the most part was monitord by a machene looking for trigger phrases
[09:50] <Kisain> i'd say a few things abiut that
[09:50] <Diablo-D3> Wave to the NSA.
[09:50] <Kisain> waves
[09:50] <Kisain> lol
[09:50] <Kisain> like bush is the biggst moron
[09:50] <Diablo-D3> I've said far worse things about Bush
[09:50] <Kisain> i diden't vote so it don't matter
[09:51] <Kisain> voting for the lesser of 2 evils is still voting for evil
[09:51] <shogouki> you didnt vote ? damn
[09:51] <Diablo-D3> Yes, but one of those evils was opposed to war.
[09:51] <shogouki> damn think of french :/
[09:51] <Kisain> well there where no politicians to choose from they where all retarded
[09:51] <Diablo-D3> For every person that didnt vote, thats another person dead in Iraq.
[09:51] <Diablo-D3> I hope you can live with yourself at night.
[09:52] <shogouki> at least vote for the middle guy with no party, what is name
[09:53] <Diablo-D3> Kisain: because then people like Bush get re-elected
[09:53] <Kisain> we have no business there in the first place
[09:53] <Kisain> after all it's outr fault
[09:53] <Kisain> we did give them gns and train them
[09:53] <Kisain> like we where that stupid not to see that one coming
[09:53] <Kisain> next election i am voting
[09:53] <Diablo-D3> Thats why we have to vote
[09:53] <Diablo-D3> I did vote, and thankfully Maine didnt go to him
[09:53] <Kisain> and than bush said paganism isen't even a religion
[09:53] <kkathman> lol
[09:53] <Kisain> nice
[09:54] <kkathman> rofl
[09:54] <Kisain> i go to hempstock every year in starks
[09:54] <Kisain> live free or die!
[09:54] <kkathman> paganism ISNT a religion...lol
[09:54] <Diablo-D3> Its not a religion. Its a group of religions.
[09:54] <kkathman> geez
[09:54] <Kisain> HEY!!!!!!
[09:54] <Kisain> oh lol
[09:54] <Kisain> i know but bush made a comment that it wasen't
[09:54] <Kisain> pissed alot of people off
[09:54] <Diablo-D3> Yes, and hes a fucking moron
[09:54] <nate_> vbc
[09:54] <Diablo-D3> hes also a hardcore christian
[09:55] <Diablo-D3> and a threat to the country, and all free nations in the world
[09:55] <Kisain> moron thats not the right pharse....
[09:55] <Kisain> i've seen a ameba with more intellegence
[09:55] <Kisain> or a dorknob for that matter
[09:55] <Kisain> yup
[09:56] <Kisain> i can't waite for the day that someone gets the guts to peg him off
[09:56] <Diablo-D3> You know things are fucked up when our own President is a threat to national security
[09:56] <kkathman> the definition of paganism is "one who has no religion"
[09:56] <Kisain> it would be awsome
[09:56] <kkathman> so that pretty well sums it up
[09:56] <Kisain> says who?
[09:56] <kkathman> the dictionary 
[09:56] <Kisain> which one?
[09:56] <kkathman> go to dictionary.com and type in paganism
[09:56] <Diablo-D3> Kisain: remember, voting box before ammo box
[09:57] <Diablo-D3> dictionary.com uses the 1911 webster dictionary
[09:57] <Kisain> yea but there both as effective i would emagine
[09:57] <Diablo-D3> iirc anyways
[09:57] <kkathman> I doubt that
[09:57] <kkathman> but nevertheless
[09:57] <Diablo-D3> which pegs it right in the middle of the christian hangover
[09:57] <Diablo-D3> which we're still suffering from
[09:58] <Kisain> that has to be the stupidest definition i have ever herd
[09:58] <Diablo-D3> You know, if I didn't know any better, I'd think Bush was the anti-christ.
[09:58] <Kisain> hmmm you may have something there
[09:58] <Diablo-D3> Seriously. Hes a friend to the people, and hes the least likely to be it
[09:58] <kkathman> now you can make a case, I believe, that you can define paganism as a group of individuals that may worship polytheistic gods
[09:58] <Kisain> paganism has existed in one for or another for more than
[09:58] <Kisain> 2,500 years
[09:58] <kkathman> so in that sense it can be construed as religion
[09:58] <Diablo-D3> And he has far too many followers, many who follow God
[09:59] <shogouki> if i believe my french dict
[09:59] <Diablo-D3> s/follow God/believe in God/
[09:59] <Kisain> paganism is an earth based religion that the vatacan tryed to extinguish centurys ago
[09:59] <Diablo-D3> And hes also trying to make an enemy of the holy countries of the world
[09:59] <Kisain> cause they where afraid of it and power hungery
[09:59] <Kisain> were like roaches though
[09:59] <shogouki> paganism is the name given by christians int he end of roman empire for polytheist cults
[09:59] <Kisain> we just don't go away
[10:00] <transgress> cults?
[10:00] <Kisain> yes thats a harsh word
[10:00] <Kisain> there are no cults in paganism
[10:00] <shogouki> transgress: dont know how to says in english
[10:00] <Diablo-D3> the catholic church sees it as a threat because it basically equates God as a woman.
[10:00] <transgress> i think inappropriate is the word
[10:00] <Kisain> the ones that clame to be a cult oare practising satininsm
[10:00] <shogouki> in french its "culte"
[10:00] <Diablo-D3> And Satanism is fucked up because its a new-age thing
[10:00] <transgress> and shogouki:  polytheistic is also wrong... they called jews and muslims pagans as well
[10:01] <Kisain> paganism has no room in it's theology for for sastan it a christion thing
[10:01] <transgress> depending on the type of satanism...
[10:01] <Diablo-D3> Yup, which is very wrong
[10:01] <Kisain> all forms of satanism are non paganistic
[10:01] <Diablo-D3> Jews and Muslims are right smack in the middle of the monothetic group
[10:01] <Diablo-D3> Kisain: thats not entirely true
[10:01] <transgress> of course neo-pagans don't usually realize their religions have no roots in the old ways...
[10:01] <shogouki> transgress: well i think i'll trust my french dictionnary 
[10:01] <Kisain> how do you figure?
[10:01] <Diablo-D3> Satan represents the dark nature of human nature.
[10:02] <Kisain> you know the christian holiday yule?
[10:02] <Diablo-D3> wow, yay english
[10:02] <transgress> almost all neo-pagan religions root to one person... 
[10:02] <Kisain> if you say ramond buckland i'll scream
[10:02] <transgress> nope
[10:02] <transgress> gardner
[10:02] <Kisain> lol
[10:02] <Diablo-D3> Kisain: of course, and btw, I appologize on behalf of all the christians out there for stealing your holiday
[10:02] <Kisain> lol
[10:03] <Diablo-D3> but hey, atleast you cant blame us for having good taste
[10:03] <Kisain> gardner was a person who made it known to the world what it was
[10:03] <Kisain> it existed long before then
[10:03] <Kisain> my family have been pagan as long as i know
[10:03] <Diablo-D3> but yeah, face it, jesus christ is the sun god
[10:03] <transgress> do some research on the old ways... most of them believed in something similar to heaven and hell... not reincarnation... not karma... but usually bloodlust
[10:03] <Kisain> we lost a lot of our family members during the burning times
[10:03] <Diablo-D3> and we celebrate his rebirth every damn year
[10:04] <Diablo-D3> and we have christmas trees
[10:04] <Diablo-D3> and we drink egg nog
[10:04] <transgress> i think you might want to research the burning times as well... most burned were branch offs of christianity... knights of the templar or some shit i believe... or just those who got scape goated...
[10:04] <Diablo-D3> and fast forward a few months AND WE PAINT EGGS RED
[10:04] <Kisain> hey eg nog's good
[10:05] <Diablo-D3> transgress: bbzzz try again
[10:05] <Diablo-D3> the knights templar were in a different period of time
[10:05] <Kisain> it one of the few things they made thats actually good
[10:05] <Kisain> yea man try again
[10:05] <transgress> Diablo-D3: we've already established you are a fucking moron... so move on please.
[10:05] <Kisain> anyone that did not swear alligance with rome where burnd
[10:06] <Kisain> people who wheren't evevn pagan where burned just because they where diffrent looking
[10:06] <transgress> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar
[10:06] <Diablo-D3> Wow, my /ignore list just gained a new member.
[10:06] <Kisain> they where wiped out cause they got to be richer than the church
[10:06] <Kisain> rome coulden't have that
[10:07] <Kisain> so off with there heads
[10:07] <Diablo-D3> Kisain: not richer, more powerful
[10:07] <Kisain> take there money land problem solved
[10:07] <Kisain> both actually
[10:07] <transgress> and just so you know... pagan religions... were a different time period than the burning times too
[10:07] <Kisain> saw a thing on thim on the history channel
[10:07] <Diablo-D3> yeah, but money wasnt the problem
[10:08] <Diablo-D3> is was the fact that people believed in them instead of the chruch
[10:08] <Kisain> transgress, where'd you laen your pagan history from a cracker jak box?
[10:08] <Kisain> probibly wasen't a bad thing
[10:08] <transgress> no... history books... not out of pagan books
[10:08] <Kisain> dude you got to understand something
[10:08] <Kisain> scool books and history books are
[10:08] <Kisain> politicaly controlled
[10:09] <Kisain> like they say been franklin tyed a key to a string and flew a 
[10:09] <transgress> and you think the books you are buying are not controlled by something more?  it's called greed.
[10:09] <Kisain> kite during a lightning storm......
[10:09] <shogouki> if i trust your school books, human was created by god right ?
[10:09] <Kisain> dude i have books that are hundreds of years old in my collection
[10:09] <mikl> Kisain: All books are more or less controlled. Every author has something he'd like to promote
[10:09] <Kisain> they say more truthes than the ones in print today
[10:09] <Kisain> true
[10:10] <transgress> but the fact is... the pagans were vikings... the pagans were in ireland before the english went to it... the pagans were in england before the romans went to it... but by the time rome started to spread enough to have the burning times... most pagans had long since converted
[10:10] <Kisain> now correct me if i'm wrong a lightning bolt is compsed of curents
[10:10] <Kisain> regestering in the millions right?
[10:10] <Diablo-D3> Kisain: its more than enough to turn air into plasma
[10:11] <Kisain> so if he flew this kite during a storm and lightning struck it like they say in the history books
[10:11] <Kisain> don't you think we'd have a charred human?
[10:11] <Diablo-D3> actually, the bastard was lucky he didnt die
[10:11] <transgress> but the vikings didn't believe in reincarnation... and the druids of ireland didn't believe in reincarnation... neither believed in karma... 
[10:11] <Kisain> he was lucky because it never happend
[10:11] <Diablo-D3> nope, we've repeated the test
[10:11] <transgress> the paganism of today is not the paganism of yesterday
[10:11] <Kisain> no it is true
[10:12] <Kisain> most of it was lost during the burning times and the dark ages
[10:12] <Diablo-D3> karma, heh.
[10:12] <Kisain> untill people got smart and started wrighting shit down in grimores and books of shadow
[10:12] <Diablo-D3> I'm waiting for buddists to show up
[10:12] <Kisain> oh that would be fun lol
[10:12] <transgress> dark ages... sort of... seeing as most didn't have a written language (the druids did... but their writing was on... less permanent things)
[10:13] <Kisain> i thought that was a myth?
[10:13] <transgress> but most of it was lost as they converted
[10:14] <Kisain> when we can't controll something we destroy it....
[10:14] <Kisain> when we can't accept something we change it
[10:14] <transgress> wicca is by far the most bastardized form of it... the do unto others christianized bs... old pagans... which wiccans (not saying you are wiccan) claim to be... did not believe that... they had a blood lust
[10:14] <Kisain> i wonder how much of history has fallen pray to those ideals
[10:14] <Diablo-D3> Kisain: far too many
[10:15] <transgress> Kisain: all of it... but it doesn't change that pagans outnumbers the christians in most places but yet they magically were "forced" to convert...
[10:15] <Kisain> transgress you are smoking crak arn't you
[10:15] <transgress> how do you figure?
[10:15] <transgress> you make insults but you aren't correcting me... if i say something wrong then correct it
[10:15] <Kisain> bloodlust i have never herd such prevaracation
[10:15] <closure> yo
[10:15] <closure> where do i search the debian repositories?
[10:16] <transgress> the vikings... one of the largest groups of pagans didn't have bloodlust?  hell bucklands entire version of wicca is based on vikings...
[10:16] <transgress> closure: apt-cache search word
[10:16] <transgress> vikings believed on warriors that died an honorable death got into valhalla (sp?)
[10:16] <Kisain> the viking wheren't pagans you goof
[10:16] <transgress> umm... yes they were
[10:17] <transgress> you goof
[10:17] <Kisain> where do you get such twisted ideas?
[10:17] <Kisain> how do you figure viking where pagans?
[10:17] <closure> transgress, not the ubuntu repositories
[10:17] <closure> the debian repo's
[10:17] <Kisain> i have never herd that in my life
[10:18] <transgress> One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.
[10:18] <Kisain> paganism is an earth based religion......
[10:18] <transgress>  One who has no religion.
[10:18] <transgress>  A non-Christian.
[10:18] <transgress>  A hedonist.
[10:18] <Kisain> well duh who do you think made that definition?
[10:18] <Kisain> the church thats who
[10:18] <AzMoo> A hedonist can have a religion.
[10:18] <Kisain> no intellegence
[10:19] <Kisain> the definition of paganism that i was taught by my parents is 
[10:19] <Kisain> paganism (n) 
[10:19] <transgress> Kisain: umm... you do realize who the saxons are right?
[10:19] <Kisain> an earth based religion worrshipping the foundations of life
[10:20] <transgress> Kisain: you realize pagan was a word created by the roman catholic church right?  as an insult...
[10:20] <Kisain> no it was used by the church to insult
[10:20] <AzMoo> Kisain, no, that's Wiccan.
[10:20] <Kisain> but the word existed long before then
[10:20] <Kisain> whats wiccan?
[10:20] <AzMoo> Kisain, a pagan is a person who's not Christian.
[10:20] <AzMoo> As transgress said.
[10:21] <transgress> Kisain: you need to look into the etymology of that word... it was not used by pagans to describe themselves
[10:21] <Kisain> no but the word was in existance before the church
[10:21] <Kisain> turned it into a bad thing
[10:22] <AzMoo> Kisain, etymology states that it's from paganus, meaning civilian.
[10:22] <transgress> here you go Kisain a pagan site that agrees with me
[10:22] <transgress> http://www.paganspath.com/magik/pagan.htm
[10:23] <Kisain> you wanna lean something goto www.witchvox.com
[10:23] <transgress> just because you are taught something your entire life doesn't make it true... 
[10:23] <transgress> been there
[10:23] <transgress> i think i have an account there
[10:24] <Kisain> your luky man i have herd of springwolf
[10:24] <transgress> i'm lucky?
[10:24] <AzMoo> Kisain, you want to learn something? Open up a dictionary.
[10:24] <Kisain> although he's been oustracised form most of the pagan community for his belefes
[10:24] <closure> great
[10:24] <Kisain> azmoo why are you being so harsh man?
[10:25] <shogouki> hum
[10:25] <shogouki> who cares about paganism ?
[10:25] <AzMoo> Kisain, word meanings are important.
[10:25] <Kisain> yes but we try to hard to labe things
[10:25] <Kisain> i don't think it's right
[10:25] <transgress> Kisain: i have no problem with your religion, but you really should learn the real roots
[10:25] <transgress> just as christians should learn the roots of their own
[10:26] <Kisain> even today yousee the controversy that arises over the meaning of a simple word or phrase
[10:26] <transgress> giving the origin of a word is not labeling
[10:26] <buz> if christians learn about christian history the only sane thing to do is to leave all church like institutions
[10:26] <Kisain> transgress, i never said you did....
[10:26] <AzMoo> That's the point. If you misuse a word, then your meaning is not clear. Misunderstanding ensues.
[10:26] <Kisain> every one has the right to there opinion.....no one here is wrong
[10:26] <AzMoo> No, that's not true.
[10:27] <Kisain> we just view life from diffrent prespectives...
[10:27] <Kisain> that one of the things that makes us so intellegent.....
[10:27] <Kisain> well for the most part.
[10:27] <transgress> ima have to agree with AzMoo ... one of us has to be wrong on some points... such as the etymology of pagan
[10:27] <transgress> and the real pagan religions
[10:27] <AzMoo> No, that's not at all true. Language is very specific. 
[10:28] <AzMoo> The thing that makes us intelligent is our ability to reason and learn from our mistakes.
[10:28] <Kisain> what do you consider to be a real pagan religion?
[10:28] <transgress> and the fact that karma and reincarnation is rooted in hinduism and buddhism ... not from religions of the western world
[10:28] <transgress> i told you... the real pagans were vikings, and the irish before the british came over, and the british before the romans
[10:28] <Kisain> i have never beleved in reincarnation....
[10:28] <Kisain> i think that we we die we just go on not back to here but someware else....i hope
[10:29] <buz> wtf is that even in this channel
[10:29] <Kisain> whats wrong man?
[10:29] <buz> can't you discuss religion someplace else
[10:29] <transgress> iuno... i just have a hard time staying quiet on religion
[10:29] <transgress> i came in during the middle of this
[10:29] <transgress> heh
[10:29] <AzMoo> me too :p
[10:29] <Kisain> sorry we where board and decided to exercise our minds by having an intellectual conversation
[10:29] <transgress> but good point... back to A scanner Darkly
[10:29] <buz> i've been known to be quite vocal about it as well
[10:29] <buz> only in the other direction as most
[10:29] <AzMoo> But I'm worried about word usage, not religion.
[10:30] <AzMoo> Religion can suck me.
[10:30] <AzMoo> :-p
[10:30] <Kisain> the word usage mine or others?
[10:30] <Kisain> hey i'll be the first to admit when i'm wrong if i am
[10:30] <transgress> lmao
[10:31] <AzMoo> Kisain, dictionary.com/search?q=pagan
[10:31] <Kisain> i can't ignore facts no truly intellegent person can
[10:31] <Kisain> yes i seen that
[10:31] <buz> looking at the facts, personally i decided that all religions suck
[10:31] <Kisain> i also seen other definitions in other dictionarys that conflict with that one
[10:31] <AzMoo> Then you can see that by labelling a specific religion as pagan is wrong.
[10:31] <closure> what the hell
[10:31] <Kisain> lol
[10:31] <closure> why are you fools arguing about religin
[10:31] <AzMoo> Kisain, what dictionary?
[10:32] <closure> religion
[10:32] <transgress> closure: well i wanted to talk about pr0n, but this is all that was offered
[10:32] <Kisain> yes but i'm not lableing a specific religion a groupe of them maybe
[10:32] <closure> transgress, you got indian porn?
[10:32] <buz> at least pron and linux are half brethren
[10:32] <transgress> closure: DO I!?
[10:32] <closure> transgress, i <3 indian women
[10:32] <Kisain> i have a 20 year old websters dictionary here that has a diffrent meaning of the word :/
[10:32] <closure> transgress, you better be slapping up the ftp right now
[10:32] <Kisain> so i'm not shure what to beleve.....
[10:32] <closure> >8-P
[10:32] <Kisain> so i choose niether
[10:33] <transgress> god there was this really just perfect indian girl that i went to high school with... she always talked to me about the bad shit i did, because i think it gave her thrills knowing she talked to a bad kid
[10:33] <Kisain> because of the conflicting definitions
[10:33] <closure> lol
[10:33] <Kisain> hey we can't help who we are good or bad
[10:33] <closure> i use to talk about the bad shit i did in highschool
[10:33] <closure> now i keep my dirty little secrets just that
[10:33] <Kisain> man only mistakes evil for the good he seeks
[10:33] <transgress> of course i don't label most of the stuff i did as bad... just ... taboo by today's standards
[10:33] <closure> secret
[10:34] <buz> chicks in highschool were mostly fugly
[10:34] <Kisain> lol
[10:34] <closure> buz, you went to the wrong school
[10:34] <buz> now at uni i can't complain
[10:34] <transgress> i went to high school with some gorgeous girls
[10:34] <closure> buz, they were hooooooooot at mine
[10:34] <buz> closure: definitely
[10:34] <AzMoo> buz, agreed. Uni chicks are hot.
[10:34] <buz> well, some majors got hot ones
[10:34] <buz> i mean the whole environmentalist crowd ieeew
[10:34] <AzMoo> My Uni is 85% female. Win.
[10:34] <closure> Opera Web Browser > *
[10:34] <buz> wtf?
[10:34] <closure> this thing is peeeeeeeeimp
[10:35] <transgress> chicks in high school had lower expectations... my lag girlfriend broke up with me because i wouldn't go to college and get a real job
[10:35] <Kisain> lol
[10:35] <transgress> now i get paid more than her by more than double
[10:35] <closure> transgress, hell yes they did
[10:35] <Kisain> a little material i'd say
[10:35] <transgress> very material
[10:35] <transgress> she got pissed because i hate diamonds
[10:35] <transgress> and told her i'd never buy one
[10:35] <closure> how do you hate diamonds?
[10:35] <Kisain> why?
[10:35] <AzMoo> They're expensive!
[10:35] <transgress> they are rocks... for one... ever read gulliver's travels?
[10:35] <Kisain> i alredy know the answer but just asking
[10:35] <transgress> also they have blood on them
[10:36] <transgress> lots of blood
[10:36] <buz> diamonds are one of the worst rip off there are
[10:36] <closure> AzMoo, so?  they're pretty
[10:36] <buz> 1) they aren't rare at all
[10:36] <buz> 2) they are way over priced
[10:36] <buz> 3) it's a lot of blood on them
[10:36] <Kisain> there it is not to mention they where a big factor in the trading of slaves
[10:36] <closure> buz, blood?
[10:36] <buz> 4) you make de beers, positively the most evil company ever, richer
[10:36] <transgress> closure: never read about blood diamonds?
[10:36] <closure> transgress,  nope
[10:36] <buz> Kisain: by that measure you could neither buy sugar nor cotton
[10:36] <transgress> http://www.amnestyusa.org/amnestynow/diamonds.html educate yourself
[10:36] <closure> not that i know of
[10:37] <Kisain> huh?
[10:37] <transgress> buz: i buy organic clothing most of the time and i don't buy sugar
[10:37] <buz> both cotton and sugar had high stakes in slave trade as well
[10:37] <transgress> of course they don't anymore
[10:37] <Kisain> my colthes are mostly made of hemp
[10:37] <transgress> diamonds still have stakes in the slave trade
[10:37] <Kisain> it's a very durable fabric
[10:37] <transgress> hemp rocks
[10:37] <closure> godamn hippie
[10:37] <closure> s
[10:37] <Kisain> hey
[10:37] <buz> hemp is for smoking
[10:37] <transgress> Kisain: ever shopped at rawganique?
[10:37] <buz> not clothing
[10:37] <transgress> hemp is for everything
[10:37] <closure> "organic clothing"
[10:37] <Kisain> no never herd of it
[10:38] <transgress> my friend has a hemp bed, with hemp sheets, and a hemp comforter
[10:38] <Kisain> i get most of my clothes from azuregreen
[10:38] <transgress> rawganique.com i believe... awesome clothes
[10:38] <buz> wtf is even organic clothing? do you otherwise wear metal clothing?!?
[10:38] <closure> transgress, gotta be uncomfortable hemp is quite rough
[10:38] <transgress> azuregreen?  site?
[10:38] <Kisain> i always wanted to get a hemp bed i hear there comfy
[10:38] <transgress> closure: softer than cotton.  i promise
[10:38] <closure> buz, i think it means no polyesters
[10:38] <Kisain> www.azuregreen.com
[10:38] <closure> transgress, it's not softer than my 1000 count
[10:38] <buz> polyesters are prototypically organic compouns
[10:38] <transgress> try it sometime
[10:38] <closure> shit is like sleeping on a baby's ass
[10:39] <ziabice> re all
[10:39] <transgress> closure: should try sleeping on baby's ass... i have a bed made out of that... 
[10:39] <Kisain> ewww
[10:39] <Kisain> gross
[10:39] <closure> transgress, nice
[10:39] <Kisain> :P
[10:39] <buz> lol
[10:39] <closure> transgress, organic baby ass?
[10:39] <buz> i hate babies. where can i get one?
[10:40] <Kisain> another place to get your clothes from is the pirimyd collection
[10:40] <ziabice> hi, I have a problem with KDE + UTF
[10:40] <Kisain> which i have misspelld the first part
[10:40] <ziabice> I have a locale it_IT.UTF-8@euro
[10:40] <transgress> closure: of course...
[10:40] <closure> Kisain, i buy my clothes at boutiques? what's wrong with that
[10:40] <transgress> buz: outside of abortion clinics
[10:40] <Kisain> nothin
[10:40] <buz> that's not babies
[10:40] <buz> that's fetuses
[10:40] <ziabice> and kde doesn't knows how  to use it
[10:41] <transgress> was before they got rid of the partial birth abortions... those were the good ol days
[10:41] <Kisain> never said that there where something wronf with that
[10:41] <buz> besides, there aren't such things as abortion clinics here
[10:41] <ziabice> so I can't type italian letters...
[10:41] <transgress> i got like three when they were cheap
[10:41] <buz> abortion is legal so it's performed at pretty much any hospital i think
[10:41] <transgress> buz: where is here?
[10:41] <buz> switzerland
[10:41] <transgress> ah
[10:41] <ziabice> I'm googling but I haven't find nothing that can help me...
[10:41] <transgress> heh we have abortion clinics... i wonder if they do it at hospitals too here...
[10:41] <buz> i think up until the 12th week is legal
[10:42] <transgress> of course we also have abortion clinic bombings... so using just hospitals is probably wiser
[10:42] <Kisain> i think abortion shouldbe up to the individual not the goverment
[10:42] <buz> exactly
[10:42] <buz> that's we made it legal  in the first place
[10:42] <transgress> i think no man has the right to tell a woman what to do with her body
[10:42] <Kisain> agreed
[10:42] <Kisain> 100%
[10:42] <buz> agreed
[10:42] <transgress> although they are one vote from turning roe v wade over in america
[10:42] <transgress> 1 vote
[10:42] <buz> but keep in mind that there's the other way around as well
[10:42] <Kisain> ouch
[10:42] <transgress> if one judge steps down...
[10:42] <buz> chicks claiming to take the pill and not doing so
[10:42] <Kisain> thats not as safe
[10:43] <transgress> buz: it's called a condom
[10:43] <buz> you really trust in those?
[10:43] <transgress> heh my chick forgot to take her pill once... that scared the shit out of us
[10:43] <buz> they break more often than not
[10:43] <transgress> buz: used correctly they are 99% effect
[10:43] <transgress> buz: sure you are using the right hole?
[10:43] <AzMoo> Don't suppose anybody knows how to use amixer?
[10:43] <Kisain> well it's latex thats thinner than a human hair what do you expect
[10:43] <transgress> i've stretched one over someone's head and it not break
[10:43] <buz> i'd say so
[10:44] <Kisain> dman
[10:44] <Kisain> damn
[10:44] <Kisain> loll
[10:44] <buz> otherwise i wouldnt have to worry about pregnancy would i
[10:44] <AzMoo> buz, dude, how often have you used a condom? I've never had one break.
[10:44] <transgress> they stretch them out huge in factories
[10:44] <transgress> amixer?
[10:44] <buz> i know you can stretch them over peoples head
[10:44] <buz> but they seem to bloody dislike frcition
[10:44] <AzMoo> transgress, command line interface for alsamixer
[10:44] <Kisain> i'm formulating a new definition for humans
[10:44] <transgress> buz: again... sure you are using the right hole...
[10:44] <transgress> AzMoo: what are you trying to do?
[10:45] <buz> sure
[10:45] <AzMoo> transgress, lower my volume through the command line.
[10:45] <Kisain> human (n) a speaceas that dosen't know it's head from it ass and proclams that it does
[10:45] <transgress> arrow keys to move to master or pcm and then hit the down arrow
[10:45] <transgress> human:  a thing that has trouble spelling species
[10:45] <Kisain> dude you don't have a mouse?
[10:45] <buz> that's not quite normal shipping condition now is it: iota.root-servers.ch/ezpublish-devel/var/plain/storage/images/brokenathlonpackage/274-1-eng-GB/brokenathlonpackage.jpg
[10:45] <Kisain> lol
[10:45] <buz> http://iota.root-servers.ch/ezpublish-devel/var/plain/storage/images/brokenathlonpackage/274-1-eng-GB/brokenathlonpackage.jpg
[10:46] <buz> shop doesn't want it to take back.
[10:46] <buz> suckers
[10:46] <AzMoo> transgress, no, I'm setting up hotkeys for for my multimedia keyboard :p
[10:46] <AzMoo> The volume up and down buttons need to be mapped to a command.
[10:46] <transgress> AzMoo: i wish i could figure out how to do that... i had it going easy in ubuntu because of gnome
[10:46] <uniq> azmoo: 'man amixer' got a few examples.
[10:46] <shogouki> AzMoo: why dont you use kmix ?
[10:47] <transgress> AzMoo: and hen write a wiki once you get that done
[10:47] <transgress> shogouki: he's trying to map his extra keys
[10:47] <AzMoo> uniq, yeah, but they didn't seem to work. Everytime I throw a percentage sign in there it asks for a parameter.
[10:47] <shogouki> dcop kmix Mixer0 increaseVolume
[10:47] <shogouki> or somithing like that
[10:48] <transgress> what is dcop?
[10:48] <AzMoo> shogouki, because I didn't know i could!
[10:48] <shogouki> transgress: a new life beginning for you :)
[10:48] <transgress> wait wait wait wait wait wait a fucking second
[10:48] <AzMoo> shogouki, got any docs on that?
[10:49] <shogouki> AzMoo: all around the web, but you can launch kdcop to see dcop 'slot'
[10:49] <uniq> azmoo: what if you select your keyboard from settings:/Accessibility/ -> keyboard ? 
[10:49] <transgress> how did we move from religion to pr0n to clothes to abortion to sex to mapping the keyboard that quick?
[10:49] <buz> thats irc for you
[10:49] <buz> eventually we even got back on topic
[10:50] <AzMoo> uniq, yeah, but you still have to set up the shortcuts.
[10:50] <AzMoo> shogouki, cheers.
[10:50] <uniq> hm.. not the volume controls? 
[10:50] <shogouki> hum this dcop slot need another param
[10:50] <uniq> I didn't have to.
[10:50] <AzMoo> uniq, omg
[10:50] <AzMoo> hahaha
[10:50] <AzMoo> I didn't even try it
[10:50] <AzMoo> Thanks.
[10:50] <uniq> :)
[10:51] <AzMoo> On an upside, I learned new things!
[10:51] <transgress> AzMoo: what'd you do?
[10:51] <transgress> AzMoo: write a wiki once you get it set up and i'll give you a cookie
[10:51] <AzMoo> transgress, just pressed the button :p
[10:51] <shogouki> hum you need to give the device idx for last param
[10:51] <transgress> on what?
[10:51] <AzMoo> My keyboard!
[10:51] <transgress> what application picked it up?
[10:52] <uniq> KDE :)
[10:52] <AzMoo> transgress, Control Center > Regional & Accessibility > Keyboard Layout. Then select your keyboard and it should work.
[10:52] <transgress> umm i have no keyboards in that
[10:52] <AzMoo> Bugger!
[10:53] <transgress> like there is nothing in the model menu... nothing in the layout variant menu...
[10:53] <transgress> anyone?
[10:53] <AzMoo> nothing at all?
[10:53] <transgress> at all
[10:53] <Kisain> sorry i was away
[10:53] <Kisain> thank you all for the very stimulating intellectual conversation
[10:54] <AzMoo> hah, damnnn
[10:54] <AzMoo> I'd go to #kde and ask there.
[10:54] <Kisain> i think i'll create another channel just for the conversatins to get seperated
[10:55] <closure> oh what the fuck
[10:55] <closure> they are saying pot will kill you now
[10:55] <transgress> who is?
[10:55] <closure> wrong channel
[10:55] <transgress> they are fucking stupid
[10:55] <closure> something on fox news
[10:55] <transgress> whoever they are
[10:55] <transgress> closure: don't watch that god awful channel
[10:55] <transgress> go read infoshop.org instead
[10:55] <transgress> so the fbi can get your IP like me!
[10:55] <closure> i don't care about your hippy news
[10:55] <transgress> real news
[10:56] <closure> i don't care about people being killed for diamonds
[10:56] <Kisain> i created a sepreate channel called intellectual if ya want to join
[10:56] <closure> they should shoot back if it's that big of a deal
[10:56] <Kisain> figured that would sort out the mees in here
[10:56] <AzMoo> closure, you serious dude?
[10:56] <closure> transgress, and what does the fbi have to do with infoshop.org?
[10:56] <closure> AzMoo, what do you mean?
[10:57] <transgress> closure: they ordered all IPs who posted to forums on all sites hosted there to be turned over
[10:57] <AzMoo> closure, do you really think that those people wouldn't fight back if they could?
[10:57] <transgress> it was on /. a while back
[10:57] <Kisain> brb
[10:57] <closure> "Four dead in fresh Baghdad blast"
[10:57] <closure> that just went across my ticker
[10:57] <closure> we now refer to them as being "fresh"
[10:58] <AzMoo> What news source?
[10:58] <closure> as opposed to the "stale" or "rotten" blasts
[10:58] <transgress> four iraqi or four americans?
[10:58] <AzMoo> transgress, does it matter?
[10:58] <closure> AzMoo, BBC
[10:58] <AzMoo> closure, surprising they'd use an adjective there. 
[10:58] <closure> transgress, is it like terrorist related or something
[10:59] <closure> AzMoo, that was my point
[10:59] <transgress> closure: anarchist/marxist website
[10:59] <closure> AzMoo, and as for the people who don't fight back everybody's got a choice to fight
[10:59] <AzMoo> closure, I know. I was agreeing. BBC are usually all about straight reporting.
[10:59] <closure> transgress, oh there's a group of winners
[10:59] <AzMoo> closure, but there's no use fighting if you can't win.
[11:00] <closure> AzMoo, so you'd rather just lay back and die?
[11:00] <transgress> closure: you realize the GPL is a very marxist license right?
[11:00] <AzMoo> closure, the point is, if you fight you will die. If you don't fight, you'll survive another day, perhaps.
[11:00] <transgress> AzMoo: and yes it does matter to me... innocent iraqis... that bothers me more than american soldiers
[11:01] <AzMoo> Oh wow. Man, they're just doing their job. Blame the people that make the decisions, not the soldiers.
[11:01] <transgress> soldiers can say no
[11:02] <AzMoo> Yeah, and end up dead, on treason charges, or with a dishonourable discharge which will screw them up for the rest of their lives.
[11:02] <transgress> AzMoo: you're wrong
[11:02] <transgress> it's called consciencious objector
[11:02] <closure> transgress, sure i can see how you would look at it like that
[11:02] <transgress> a right offered to every citizen
[11:04] <AzMoo> You can't be a conscientious objector once you're already over there and in action.
[11:04] <transgress> umm... so i can't blame them for saying no before they ever went?
[11:05] <transgress> i think i can.
[11:05] <AzMoo> I think you can. I think you shouldn't.
[11:05] <AzMoo> anyway, bbl.
[11:05] <transgress> why?  
[11:05] <transgress> i mean... perhaps i could support things if say... there were weapons of mass destruction... but there weren't... and they admitted their research... was bullshit
[11:06] <transgress> perhaps we should take this to #intellectual heh
[11:06] <closure> not like it matters really
[11:06] <closure> nobody's here at this hour anyways
[11:06] <transgress> true
[11:08] <closure> damn pan sucks balls
[11:09] <nate____2> i'm here
[11:09] <nate____2> and you all love me
[11:09] <closure> i just like your ass nate_ 
[11:09] <closure> nate____2,  that is
[11:10] <nate____2> heh
[11:12] <buz> aah new udev for breezy
[11:13] <buz> maybe printing works again now
[11:13] <transgress> hey do you guys have kbd installed?
[11:13] <transgress> because i don't... and i think that might have to do with the lack of keyboards
[11:14] <closure> bd?
[11:14] <closure> what's taht?
[11:15] <transgress> eh i dunno... something to do with the keyboard though... pulls the ubuntu base though
[11:16] <hazzer123> when you install kubuntu does root not have a password set?  I've just been reading about sudo on the wiki and it seems that you can set a root password, so does that mean that there isnt one already?
[11:18] <azad> hey there.. i know it's not a really new topic, but how do i get my 3D-accleration and so on working (ATI Radeon 9700pro)
[11:18] <buz> yeah
[11:18] <buz> todays udev update fixed printing on breezy
[01:19] <smouche> good morning folks.  
[01:21] <xxenon> Konqueror crashes at lot here, when browsing local directories...known problem   ?
[01:21] <closure> xxenon, pretty sure it does the same on mine
[01:24] <smouche> xxenon, yes.  There have been bug reports filed on that
[01:25] <smouche> xxenon, trying two things might reduce the frequency of crashes:  
[01:26] <smouche> turn off the navigation panel, and avoid invoking konqueror from that icon in the kicker, the one th's installed by default
[01:27] <closure> th
[01:27] <closure> 's?
[01:27] <smouche> "th's"
[01:27] <smouche> rats!
[01:28] <smouche> that's!  (keyboard switching problem here)
[01:29] <smouche> xxenon, when you open konqueror, do you sometimes notice the icon in the upper right spinning for a long time?
[01:30] <closure> WOOHOO!
[01:30] <xxenon> smouche - nope, I havent noticed that
[01:30] <closure> i found a UK dictionary!
[01:30] <closure> alright!
[01:30] <xxenon> just try to open a local directory, and press F5 (refresh) several time
[01:30] <xxenon> you get a crash
[01:30] <closure> smouche, yeah i get that
[01:30] <closure> it spins for days
[01:31] <smouche> well, I can't make konqueror crash on me that way, xxenon
[01:32] <dmoyne> Kuser is crashing when trying to add a group to a user ! has anybody experienced the same problem ?
[01:32] <smouche> closure, that's a major headache for me, trying to use alternate keyboards in linux
[01:33] <closure> smouche it's terrible
[01:33] <closure> i'm american but i don't care for US english
[01:33] <verden01> hey
[01:34] <smouche> closure,'m american too but t I need to type in other languages sometimes
[01:34] <closure> i can't even speak another language much less type
[01:34] <smouche> closure, you meant you get that spinning konq icon?
[01:35] <smouche> closure, try this from a command line and tell me what you see -- just curious:
[01:35] <closure> smouche, yeah
[01:35] <smouche> konqueror -profile filemanager
[01:36] <closure> malformed URL
[01:36] <smouche> oops
[01:36] <smouche> sorry, that should be:
[01:37] <smouche> konqueror -profile filemanagement
[01:37] <smouche> tell me if the icon still spins
[01:37] <closure> nope
[01:37] <closure> no spinning
[01:38] <smouche> anyway, when I only use the filemanagement profile, and keep the navigation panel off 
[01:38] <smouche> I get far fewer crashes
[01:38] <closure> i can't get rid of the navigation panel by default
[01:38] <smouche> I think you can, closure
[01:39] <smouche> if you check the menus, you can save your current view settings
[01:39] <closure> alright
[01:40] <closure> i'm going to sleep i gotta go out of town here in about 4 hours
[01:40] <closure> gotta get some sleep
[01:40] <closure> ttyl guys
[01:40] <smouche> have a good one closure
[01:41] <buz> anyone remember the oo printer config command?
[01:42] <buz> ah
[01:42] <buz> restarting oo helps ;)
[02:01] <ugenn> is kubuntu suitable for a noob?
[02:38] <whiskey_1> has anybody heard any plans for breezy....this glibc problem is totally ridiculous....i tried rebuilding yelp, scrollkeeper, docbook...everything from scratch...and gnome help still doesn't work...it keeps going back to the missing DSO of glibc....what damn missing DSO is there.
[02:39] <whiskey_1> i built the sybase, the xbase, the mysql, the sqlite, the postgresql drivers and the damn thing is still missing a DSO.
[02:39] <whiskey_1> and i just have no other idea....what is missing
[02:40] <cartman> whiskey_1: what glibc problem?
[02:41] <whiskey_1> cartman, well this damn ubuntu is a major pain....nothing works except a couple of database programs.....everything keeps going back to a missing DSO in glibc.
[02:41] <cartman> whiskey_1: breezy works fine here
[02:41] <whiskey_1> cartman, when was breezy released
[02:41] <buz> breezy wasnt released at all
[02:41] <cartman> its not released yet
[02:41] <cartman> its development branch
[02:41] <buz> its highly in development
[02:41] <whiskey_1> cartman, oh..ok well keep working on it.
[02:42] <cartman> lol
[02:42] <buz> dont complain about breezy not working
[02:42] <cartman> yeah because its not working ;P
[02:42] <buz> but thankfully, udev got fixed today
[02:42] <buz> it's not supposed to work, even
[02:42] <cartman> true
[02:42] <cartman> I just need new gcc 4.0 to compile on buildd
[02:42] <buz> if i could, i'd downgrade to hoary
[02:42] <buz> but as it stands
[02:42] <cartman> it fails on all arches
[02:43] <buz> i'll stick to breezy until my new machine arrives
[02:43] <buz> hopefully sometime next week
[02:43] <whiskey_1> cartman, but be sure to start with the latest glibc with linuxthreads_db and db addins and then at least mysql, postgresql, xbase, sybase, odbc, sqllite drivers, and then libdb4.3 at least....and then see if you can get this mess working
[02:43] <cartman> whiskey_1: ah I use NPTL
[02:43] <cartman> dude to amd64
[02:43] <cartman> due*
[02:44] <whiskey_1> cartman, i am sick of these ubuntu problems.....and just getting more tired by  the minute.
[02:44] <cartman> whiskey_1: use Hoary then
[02:44] <cartman> its stable
[02:44] <whiskey_1> cartman, that is what i have...but the thing doesn't work worth a shit....not even gnome help works
[02:44] <cartman> whiskey_1: try #ubuntu
[02:45] <whiskey_1> cartman, with all that damn sgml crap
[02:46] <whiskey_1> cartman, everything keeps going back to a glibc error with a missing DSO....and i just don't know what else is missing
[02:46] <cartman> whiskey_1: bugzilla.ubuntulinux.org is your friend
[02:48] <whiskey_1> cartman, i did manage to get all 4 database programs working...glom, knoda, kex, rekall, and pgaccess are all connecting now....but nothing in hoary works anymore
[02:48] <cartman> whiskey_1: really I have no idea...
[02:48] <whiskey_1> cartman, there just seems to be some fundamental problem
[02:48] <cartman> might be a known bug
[03:08] <Shaquile> aja brb
[03:08] <Shaquile> aja brb
[03:14] <osh> I'm playing with chroot, and there's some mention of a program called "dchroot". However I can't find that when doing an apt-get install. Should it be in ubuntu somewhere?
[03:14] <uniq> it's in universe.
[03:14] <uniq> http://ubuntuguide.org/#extrarepositories
[03:15] <osh> uniq: dchroot? I thought I added universe... I'll double check.
[03:15] <uniq> dchroot is in universe, yes. 
[03:18] <osh> uniq: You're right. I added universe/multiverse to the "security" repositories in sources.list. Silly me. Thanks for the help.
[03:18] <uniq> no problem :)
[03:20] <whiskey_1> well two sets of headaches is too much.....because i am also having a great deal of trouble on win98 with mingnu
[03:44] <osh> Sweet. No problems running mozilla32-bit on kubuntu64. Now all I have to do is to do the same to kaffeine. =)
[04:04] <sikor_sxe> my machine crashes hard when i remove my usb-ethernet adapter. is there anything i can do about this?
[04:36] <Kojima> kubuntu for french
[04:36] <Kojima> ???
[04:40] <kkathman> howdy there KaiL  :)
[04:58] <KaiL> somebody with a Radeon 9250 here?
[04:58] <KaiL> or 9200?
[05:09] <kkathman> not me
[05:33] <bubi> ok i have a problem
[05:33] <bubi> i am trying to install java as decribed here https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/Java15
[05:33] <bubi> and i cant
[05:34] <bubi> when i do this: sudo apt-get install java-package fakeroot
[05:34] <bubi> i get this
[05:34] <bubi> Reading package lists... Done
[05:34] <bubi> Building dependency tree... Done
[05:34] <bubi> E: Couldn't find package java-package
[05:35] <bubi> can someone help me please
[05:38] <marcelo> Hey, y'all... has anybody seen crimsun?
[05:39] <kkathman> havent today marcelo :)
[05:39] <marcelo> I was finally able to get ca0106 module working... But the sound is choppy and I have no midi.
[05:40] <marcelo> Anyone knows what's going on?
[05:40] <marcelo> Thanks, kkathman.
[05:41] <marcelo> The mixer options for ca0106 are truly weird...
[05:41] <marcelo> .wav files can be played (well, barely), but MP3's sound all wrong.
[05:42] <pussfeller> a bit ot, but anyone know why when i ssh [hostname]  to a computer on the lan, it routes thru the gateways external nic, but when I ssh 192.168.0.* it goes direct?
[05:43] <pussfeller> could it have something to do with using dnsmasq to assign host via dhcp
[05:44] <pussfeller> well, it does that thru dns actually
[05:44] <kkathman> howdy there pussfeller  :)
[05:44] <pussfeller> hey kkathman whats happening
[05:44] <LeeJunFan> bubi: you probably need to enable universe repositories in your /etc/apt/sources.list file.
[05:44] <bubi> :(
[05:44] <kkathman> just chillin
[05:44] <bubi> LeeJunFan: i have
[05:44] <kkathman> LeeJunFan: long time no see :)
[05:44] <KaiL> crappy hardware?
[05:44] <LeeJunFan> bubi: have you run apt-get update since?
[05:44] <KaiL> ca0106? never heared...
[05:44] <pussfeller> im supposed to be writing a website to day but im so lazy
[05:44] <bubi> sure few times
[05:45] <kkathman> pussfeller: wow me too
[05:45] <kkathman> I have to redo a site for a client to allow them to completely change it to what they want
[05:45] <kkathman> so....
[05:45] <kkathman> It was all written in php, so Im going to just give them a bit text block and then render it on the page :)
[05:45] <LeeJunFan> kkathman: yeah, been hiding. Err playing SWAT4 that is. :)
[05:47] <LeeJunFan> bubi: hrm, Just checked and sure enough the java package isn't in the repositories right now :-/
[05:48] <kkathman> lol
[05:48] <bubi> :( 
[05:48] <bubi> any sugestion
[05:48] <pussfeller> im starting up a computer repair/tech biz here
[05:49] <bubi> u need any technician ?
[05:49] <bubi> :P
[05:49] <pussfeller> heh, down the road, i hope so
[05:49] <kkathman> pussfeller: thats a good thing
[05:49] <pussfeller> i think im going to train my kid to do it tho :)
[05:49] <kkathman> my side biz is web sites and outsourced IT management services
[05:49] <bubi> good luck with biz
[05:50] <pussfeller> its a very small town but theres three storefront businesses
[05:50] <kkathman> it started only as web, but I have two clients now that I am basically their outsourced IT
[05:50] <pussfeller> and at least 2 have pissed a lot of people off
[05:50] <kkathman> sounds like a good opportunity
[05:50] <bubi> ok can anyone help me id like to run azureus but without java cant be done
[05:51] <pussfeller> bubi, ubuntulguide.org
[05:51] <pussfeller> err
[05:51] <pussfeller> ubuntuguide.org/
[05:52] <pussfeller> that page should be in the topic
[05:52] <kkathman> bubi: install java then if you must
[05:52] <kkathman> use the backports page at ubuntuforums to get the java pkgs
[05:52] <pussfeller> so what you mean when you say, outsouce it management
[05:52] <LeeJunFan> bubi: just dl and install the java from sun. Then set your path in /etc/profile so /usr/local/<whatever the dir it creates>/bin is in your path.
[05:53] <kkathman> pussfeller: Literally consulting and advising on business strategy wrt IT services, email management, trouble shooting, install new hardware...blah blah
[05:53] <bubi> ok
[05:53] <pussfeller> i'm focusing on residential right now, cause i have no idea what businesses need
[05:53] <kkathman> things that an IT department would do if they had one
[05:53] <pussfeller> well, not much idea
[05:53] <pussfeller> i heard thats where the money is tho
[05:54] <kkathman> pussfeller:  you'll find that most businesses, if they dont have IT, have the same needs as personal :)
[05:54] <LeeJunFan> pussfeller: There's money somewhere?
[05:54] <LeeJunFan> :)
[05:54] <kkathman> just a bit more urgently tho
[05:54] <pussfeller> you recommend linux often
[05:54] <kkathman> well sadly, no I dont
[05:55] <kkathman> same reason Linux really isnt making alot of inroads faster into biz I think
[05:55] <kkathman> its a lose lose for me as a consultant actually
[05:56] <pussfeller> im going to try to push linux firewall boxes for one thing
[05:56] <kkathman> if I recommend Linux, I'd get more hours to bill, probably, but at some point they would come to the conclusion that they should have gone Windows  lol
[05:56] <LeeJunFan> Any business that has a broadband internet connection should have a linux router.
[05:56] <pussfeller> and you probably have to deal with freaking out over the tiniest little thing
[05:56] <kkathman> yeah thats a good thing, but thats a hard sell for small biz, because routers do the same thing for $60
[05:57] <pussfeller> I notice in the few times I have gotten someone to use linux, they blame me if things aren't perfect
[05:57] <kkathman> if you could combine a small Linux box to be a firewall, print server and file server, thats a better sell for the $200-300 you'd need to put it in 
[05:58] <LeeJunFan> kkathman: not really. I haven't seen any $60 boxes that can do caching, _good_ traffic control, traffic monitoring, virus scanning as an e-mail gateway, squid caching, etc...
[05:58] <LeeJunFan> Man I'm tired still - I mentioned caching twice :)
[05:58] <kkathman> pussfeller: well, as much as we poo poo Microsoft Windows, they have done a good job of brainwashing...the interface is familiar, schools teach it from the Kindergarten years on up, colleges make it mandatory...blah blah
[05:58] <pussfeller> LeeJunFan, but thats like klingon to most companies
[05:59] <pussfeller> LeeJunFan, they don't KNOW they need that stuff and what it can do for them
[05:59] <Bicchi> i just installed kubuntu and using kde. in the menu i see a kynaptic option to get software and also synaptic. i thought that kynaptic was the kde version of synaptic. if so, why do i also have synaptic installed.
[05:59] <kkathman> of all the things Microsoft is, one of them is NOT dumb or stupid.
[05:59] <pussfeller> i would argue that point... 
[05:59] <kkathman> lol
[05:59] <LeeJunFan> pussfeller: yeah, you don't tell them what you are doing behind the scenes, you just tell them it'll give them the ability to know what's going on on their network, protect them from viruses, etc..
[05:59] <chavo> Bicchi, kynaptic is still in development and has less features
[06:00] <Bicchi> chavo: so i can use synaptic instead. 
[06:00] <chavo> Bicchi, I always use synaptic here
[06:00] <pussfeller> Bicchi, use synaptic or the command line right now till kynaptic gets fleshed out
[06:00] <kkathman> argue all you want, but there is pretty strong evidence that the've done alot of things right :)
[06:00] <Bicchi> chavo: why do we need 2 versions.
[06:00] <chavo> Bicchi, someone felt like writing a qt version.
[06:01] <kkathman> I hate that they are a one install does all...and its bloated and intricate and all kinds of bad...but people DO use it and its not gonna go away anytime in my lifetime
[06:01] <kkathman> lol
[06:01] <Bicchi> pussfeller: so synaptic can download just as kynaptic. it allready knows that i use kde and will only bring software for the kde environment.
[06:01] <LeeJunFan> kkathman: well, they've done the smart thing, not the right thing. There is a difference. Because money is their driving motivation rather than quality of product.
[06:01] <kkathman> LeeJunFan: not many consumers give a crap about how the code is written to be brutally honest
[06:01] <kkathman> only us geeks do :)
[06:02] <Bicchi> chavo: so both (synaptic and kynaptic) have the same avaliable packages for download?
[06:02] <kkathman> the average consumer wants to check their email, write documents, do spreadsheets and send email
[06:02] <LeeJunFan> kkathman: I'm not talking about the code itself, but what you can accomplish with windows, it's like getting a weeble wobble to run a marathon.
[06:03] <LeeJunFan> But a weeble wobble is easy enough for even the dumbest person to use.
[06:03] <kkathman> LeeJunFan: I dont disagree.
[06:03] <LeeJunFan> kkathman: I know, I'm just saying that's what microsoft did smart. By being stupid. :)
[06:04] <kkathman> LeeJunFan: but, again, I fail to see on a consistent basis, where, from the desktop outward, that Linux is an easier environment for the average person...I LOVE it, but my wife or my 88 yr-old dad couldnt use it
[06:05] <kkathman> they arent stupid, there are ALOT of very smart people at Microsoft...their philosophy kinda sucks, but the people arent dumb
[06:06] <pussfeller> linux isn't easier thats for sure
[06:06] <kkathman> I sell enterprise software to large companies for a living, and guess what, Linux is piecemeal around, but NO one would use it to run a mission critical application set.
[06:06] <LeeJunFan> Exactly, eventually both linux and humankind will evolve to the point where they work well together. Only a couple hundred years ago most people would have thought the telephone was magical and complicated. Now everyone understands the basics of how it works.
[06:06] <kkathman> pussfeller: and thats the pivot point right now isnt it?  Greater acceptance WILL come, and there have been terrific strides in just a few years :)
[06:07] <pussfeller> thats very true, the desktop has come a million miles in just the last 2 years
[06:07] <pussfeller> my kid runs kubuntu and has no problems with it... the only issue we have revoloves around sound....
[06:08] <pussfeller> but I set it up for him.... thats the thing
[06:08] <kkathman> pussfeller:  I can remember just like 5 or 6 years ago, as savvy as I am, installing Linux meant first reading all my hardware manuals, getting all those parameters and going through a VERY cryptic install
[06:08] <LeeJunFan> Think of what the average person knows compared to what was common knowledge only a hundred or so years ago. We all learn how wings create lift in grade school, etc...
[06:08] <pussfeller> LeeJunFan, mankind has lost a lot of common knowledge in the past hundred years too
[06:09] <LeeJunFan> pussfeller: that's very true too. Very few people could live off the land if their lives depended on it also.
[06:09] <pussfeller> i should say common sense
[06:09] <kkathman> LeeJunFan: correct and what needs to happen, is that somewhere along the line, the Microsoft bias needs to be broken. But in all honesty, as long as M$ rules the desktop, its not in the best interest of our children to teach them otherwise, because thats the "standard" and they should know it :)
[06:09] <kkathman> its a bit of a cycle
[06:10] <pussfeller> nah, MS can't control the desktop forever
[06:10] <kkathman> and thats why when M$ displaced Apple as the education leader in schools, they won a major part of the war
[06:10] <pussfeller> I don't think MS can survive in a non controlling environment
[06:11] <pussfeller> apple stopped growing for awhile, didn't it
[06:11] <pussfeller> I mean, they stopped being competitive
[06:11] <pussfeller> its only been recently that they have kinda bounced back
[06:11] <kkathman> pussfeller:  well there's nothing that would help computing more than a really solid OS that is easy to install and runs with very little problems for the average person.  Linux is the only serious player for that right now
[06:12] <kkathman> Apple has gone in a completely different direction, you are right
[06:12] <pussfeller> kkathman, do you see people with sp2 still having the spyware problems?
[06:12] <kkathman> Google poses the biggest threat to Microsoft right now, and with that diversion, Linux can make up some ground
[06:13] <kkathman> pussfeller:  not if they have the MS Antispyware software
[06:13] <pussfeller> so it does work
[06:13] <kkathman> yeah actually its pretty freakin good
[06:13] <kkathman> I run it and our company (the 3rd largest IT company in the world) has it on every desktop
[06:13] <kkathman> and laptop
[06:14] <pussfeller> does it take care of cws
[06:14] <kkathman> cws>
[06:14] <KaiL> 3rd largest IT..?
[06:14] <KaiL> IBM?
[06:14] <kkathman> no
[06:14] <pussfeller> cool web search
[06:14] <pussfeller> thats the bitch of the bunch
[06:14] <kkathman> 1) IBM  2) HP  3) Fujitsu
[06:14] <KaiL> HP?
[06:14] <KaiL> ah, ok ;)
[06:15] <KaiL> I guess, you use FSC Laptops then?
[06:15] <kkathman> hehe nope..I have an IBM Thinkpad T42
[06:15] <pussfeller> heh i have seen like 300 entries in the hklm startups from that crap
[06:15] <kkathman> but all our sales reps have Fujitsu laptops
[06:15] <pussfeller> i was appaled... I didn't think someone could ever do something like that even accidently
[06:16] <kkathman> pussfeller: I dont see it on my machine, I'll put it that way
[06:16] <KaiL> interesting, if even the own techs don't have the own hardware ;)
[06:16] <KaiL> as I don't find IBM harddisks in IBM laptops *g*
[06:17] <kkathman> KaiL: there's a reason KaiL ... the Fujitsu laptops are beautiful and very good...but Im a pre-sales tech.. that needs to run about 20 servers on my laptop to demo my software and its 3rd parts hookins
[06:17] <kkathman> KaiL:  IBM uses Fujitsu hdds alot :)
[06:17] <KaiL> and that's too much work for an FSC laptop? ;)
[06:18] <kkathman> my laptop has 2gb memory, Oracle RDBMS, plus a bevvy of other servers..Fujitsu just doesnt make a laptop big enough or rugged enough for our job.  
[06:19] <kkathman> in fact, they are contemplating now, beginning with our next release, having us carry TWO laptops...one server (prolly Linux !!) on one, and our standard everyday pc and client on a Fujistu laptop
[06:20] <kkathman> thats gonna suck to carry around
[06:20] <kkathman> and pull out at security in airports 
[06:21] <KaiL> at least you always have something for client/server :)
[06:22] <kkathman> yeah
[06:22] <kkathman> hopefully we can find a single box that will do all of it
[06:22] <KaiL> ever tried a java server with "only 512MiB RAM"?
[06:22] <pussfeller> woot my fx0 card just got here so now I can start playing with asterisk
[06:22] <kkathman> thats one reason I got back into learning more about Linux so that I could manage my own server if/when we got it
[06:23] <kkathman> KaiL: ugh..java
[06:23] <pussfeller> java has gtg
[06:23] <KaiL> "gtg"?
[06:23] <pussfeller> got to go
[06:23] <KaiL> ah
[06:23] <kkathman> Ive never seen a java app that didnt take forever to run
[06:23] <KaiL> "write once, debug everywhere"
[06:23] <kkathman> haha
[06:24] <kkathman> Im not a huge proponent of OO anyway
[06:24] <Kisain> hello
[06:24] <pussfeller> interpreted languages are the future
[06:24] <kkathman> and Java is one reason why
[06:24] <Kisain> sorry had some trouble with my network
[06:24] <KaiL> we got a Samsong P35 (1.6GHz, 512MiB) rto be unusable with..........
[06:24] <Kisain> router failed
[06:24] <kkathman> pussfeller: funny how technology just seems to cycle itself with new names
[06:24] <Kisain> :(
[06:24] <KaiL> ...a server for hangman-game written in Java
[06:25] <KaiL> I bet in C++ that won't be any relevant background activity
[06:25] <Kisain> how do i host my own ftp on kubuntu?
[06:25] <pussfeller> well, it jsut seems to me in my limeted coding experiences. that stuff like ruby or python is soooo much easier to learn... and what with faster machines coming along... theres less and less reason to do stuff at a low level
[06:25] <pussfeller> thats a totally uninformed opinon
[06:26] <kkathman> Kisain: you'll need to get an FTP hosting software pkg
[06:26] <Kisain> where form?
[06:26] <kkathman> try apt-cache search ftp
[06:26] <Kisain> from*
[06:26] <kkathman> look there
[06:26] <Kisain> um what about in syn?
[06:26] <pussfeller> Kisain, you are trying to run an ftp server?
[06:27] <Kisain> i don't even have a program yet lol
[06:27] <pussfeller> theres pureftpd and proftp are probably what you wanna look at
[06:27] <Kisain> nice
[06:30] <kkathman> hey pussfeller  do you have any probs exchanging files through DCC?
[06:34] <KaiL> nice, my WLAN just lost it's connection....
[06:37] <Kisain> hey i'm using the mouse odometer how do i move it to the lower left hand corner?
[06:38] <Kisain> it won't move
[06:38] <kkathman> welcome back pussfeller :)
[06:38] <Kisain> whazzup kkathman?
[06:38] <Cowlike-away> kisain, can you use <left-alt>drag?
[06:39] <kkathman> Kisain: right click on it and see if there is an option to "unlock" the fixed position
[06:39] <kkathman> yo Cowlike wassup?
[06:39] <Kisain> nope theres not :/
[06:39] <Kisain> and i can't move it that way weard
[06:39] <Cowlike> hi mkkath
[06:39] <Cowlike> kisain, hover your mouse over the window and try <alt> drag
[06:40] <Cowlike> hold down alt and try to move with mouse
[06:40] <Kisain> never mind it worked lol
[06:40] <Kisain> had no idea lol
[06:40] <Kisain> man can't waite to get my linux books
[06:40] <Kisain> theres so much i have to learn
[06:41] <Kisain> i'm gonna set this ftp server up to share my apps and mp3's
[06:41] <Cowlike> kisain, best part is all the online resources too, and all the helpful folks on irc
[06:41] <Kisain> as soon as i figure out how :/ lol
[06:41] <Kisain> yea it rocks
[06:41] <Kisain> it's nice havin user to user help......
[06:41] <Cowlike> errrr uhhh well actually the best part is having a stable, low-cost solid system :)
[06:42] <Kisain> much more evective than some dude on the other end of the telly who can't speak english
[06:42] <pussfeller> that was odd my gateway just rebooted spontaneously
[06:42] <Kisain> :P
[06:42] <Kisain> ewwww
[06:43] <kkathman> hey pussfeller do you have any probs doing DCC file transfers? I cant seem to connect to anyone, but Im sure its a port issue with my firewall
[06:43] <Cowlike> kisain, you're better off starting with learning ssh (and scp) rather than setting up ftp
[06:43] <kkathman> wondering what the defaults are for DCC
[06:43] <kkathman> I know you can set them, but if no one sets them, what are the ports?
[06:43] <Cowlike> kkathman, you using a router?
[06:43] <Kisain> ok where's a good place to learn this stuff?
[06:43] <kkathman> Cowlike: sure..NAT router
[06:43] <pussfeller> kkathman, i can't remember
[06:44] <Cowlike> kkathman, i had same problem... pretty sure you need to forward SOME port through the router to your ip... don't know which though  :O
[06:44] <kkathman> i know its an issue of port forwarding
[06:44] <pussfeller> iptables should handle that stuff tho without having to open a port iirc
[06:44] <kkathman> yeah thats just it...in Konversation, you can set the outgoing and incomming ports
[06:44] <kkathman> but lets say no one does that...what does it use?
[06:44] <Cowlike> kkathman, the OReilly book on SSH is very good. but then again there are MANY online resources too, just google it
[06:44] <kkathman> thats the bite
[06:44] <Cowlike> oops, i mean kisain
[06:45] <kkathman> lol
[06:45] <pussfeller> yes, i have used dcc to get a bunch of stuff under this setup.
[06:45] <Kisain> yes?
[06:45] <kkathman> pussfeller:  can you go to your settings, DCC and see if you have hard set those ports?
[06:45] <pussfeller> and I have no port set up to forward any dcc
[06:45] <Cowlike> kisain, the program "scp" is what you want for file transfers. part of the ssh suite
[06:45] <Kisain> ok how do i lean how to do this for n00bs
[06:45] <pussfeller> kkathman, no ports set in xchat
[06:45] <kkathman> pussfeller: weird ok..thats odd
[06:46] <kkathman> you didnt port forward or anything eh?
[06:46] <Kisain> see i'm thinking that there might be some sorta how to you know
[06:46] <Cowlike> kisain, probably want to get the book. it steps you through EVERYTHING in great detail. not sure of a really good noob-oriented online tutorial
[06:46] <Kisain> i know absolutly nothing of linux
[06:46] <Cowlike> must be one though
[06:46] <kkathman> I remember on my windows box I had to port forward, but under mIRC it told you what the defaults were
[06:46] <Kisain> i had to stumble my way through it's way of doing things
[06:46] <kkathman> and 99% of windows IRC users implement mIRC
[06:47] <maros> mIRC is cool :)
[06:47] <Cowlike> kkathman, under prefs for konversation, you can enable specific ports
[06:47] <maros> I miss mIRC
[06:47] <Cowlike> i'm looking at it now, the DCC section
[06:47] <maros> you know.. you could tile windows in mIRC, you can't do that in x-chat
[06:48] <maros> tiling windows could make you follow multiple convos in multiple channels all in the same screen
[06:48] <Cowlike> maros, that bugs me too. wish i could "tear off" a tab
[06:48] <Cowlike> prolly should request that from the konversation maintainers
[06:49] <maros> I prolly should
[06:49] <maros> i'm also prolly lazy
[06:50] <maros> which do you prolly think I will do?
[06:50] <maros> :)
[06:50] <Cowlike> haha
[06:50] <Cowlike> shorthand, i'm prolly pretty lazy
[06:51] <maros> I wish KDE enabled mouse gestures
[06:51] <maros> and just with one mouse gesture 
[06:51] <maros> I could file a bug report
[06:51] <maros> or a suggestion 
[06:51] <maros> ;)
[06:51] <Cowlike> lol
[06:51] <Cowlike> i just gesture by throwing my mouse at the wall when i get mad enough
[06:51] <woodefec> hello
[06:51] <kkathman> Cowlike:  yes I know, so I guess if I want to exchange something with someone, I just tell them to set their parms to mine 
[06:51] <woodefec> how is kubuntu like?>
[06:51] <maros> woodefec, PERFECTO!
[06:52] <kkathman> woodefec: I would suggest that you install hoary final first, then apt-get install kubuntu-desktop, instead of just installing kubuntu
[06:52] <Cowlike> kkathman: i don't know the details of how DCC works but i was wondering about that. the protocol might specify that the dcc initiator passes the return port to talk on. i don't know
[06:52] <Cowlike> kkathman, in which case, it just works on whatever you set it to
[06:53] <kkathman> Cowlike:  well I have alot of experience with IRC at least on Windows, and the common port exchanges are in a typical range
[06:53] <Cowlike> kkathman, but of course, the request coming in would need a common port to get started :)
[06:53] <kkathman> I think its like the 5000's for send and 8000s for receive I'd have to go back and check
[06:54] <kkathman> But in mIRC (the common win client) those ranges are set by default. So all you have to do is open those port ranges and forward to your local IP
[06:55] <Cowlike> kkathman, then it would probably be fine if you just did the same for konversation
[06:55] <pussfeller> kkathman, my dcc recieves are working fine, other than ones that require mirc comands to connect to a certain port
[06:55] <kkathman> Cowlike: yeah, but I'd like to know what those defaults are..thats my point...I guess I could assume they are the same, but I hate assuming
[06:56] <Cowlike> kkathman, i know what you mean but i'm clueless too
[06:56] <Cowlike> 11:54]  <Info> Offering DCC Chat connection to kkathman on port 40941...
[06:56] <kkathman> pussfeller:  usually what happens, or has been happening, is that I'll try to send to you, you'll get my send okk...but then you have to, by protocol, send an ACK msg back to start my send..its that ACK that I never get back
[06:56] <Cowlike> hmmm
[06:57] <kkathman> [11:57]  <Info> Establishing DCC Chat connection to Cowlike (24.148.87.160:40941)...
[06:57] <kkathman> [11:57]  <Info> Looking for host 24.148.87.160...
[06:57] <kkathman> [11:57]  <Info> Host found, connecting...
[06:57] <kkathman> [11:57]  <Error> Connection broken, error code 15.
[06:57] <kkathman> Cowlike: see I need to forward that port
[06:57] <kkathman> Cowlike did you hard set that port?
[06:57] <kkathman> or was that the default?
[06:58] <Cowlike> kkathman, didn't set anything. just tried to do dcc chat and that's waht came up
[06:58] <kkathman> ok hold on a sec
[06:58] <pussfeller> USE_IRC=1                         # Enable support for the IRC-protocol  
[06:58] <Cowlike> no, the problem is on my end
[06:58] <pussfeller> thats in my scripts
[06:58] <Cowlike> i'm accepting on 40941 but don't have an opening for that port
[06:58] <pussfeller> kkathman, send me a file 
[06:59] <pussfeller> theres an irc iptables module you need loaded, or turned on in proc
[06:59] <kkathman> Cowlike..now try again 
 Offering DCC Chat connection to kkathman on port 40943...
[07:00] <kkathman> interesting that the port changed, but I opened the range so should have worked
[07:00] <Brondoman> hello...quick question for ya'll regrading kubuntu
[07:01] <Cowlike> netstat -an |grep 40967
[07:01] <Cowlike> tcp6       0      0 :::40967                :::*                    LISTEN
[07:01] <Cowlike> problem is on MY end
[07:01] <kkathman> oh hmm
[07:01] <Cowlike> that message means i'm listening on that port
[07:01] <Cowlike> *I* need to forward thost ports
[07:01] <kkathman> ahh ok
[07:01] <kkathman> pussfeller: I'll try you
[07:01] <Cowlike> gotta run to an appt. i'll play with this later :)
[07:02] <Brondoman> I use both Kubuntu and Ubuntu..I also like the kde infrastructure better than Gnome...But, will the Kubuntu project be able to keep producing releases like Ubuntu?  Is it backed by Mr. Shuttleworth as well?  Thanks...
[07:03] <Cowlike-away> brondoman, it's the same linux... just with a different desktop
[07:03] <Cowlike-away> same packages in the repos
[07:03] <kkathman> pussfeller: I tried to DCC chat you
[07:03] <kkathman> it went out on 37452
[07:07] <pussfeller> kkathman, it failed
[07:07] <kkathman> ok
[07:07] <kkathman> well
[07:07] <kkathman> obviously something weird going on 
[07:07] <kkathman> no clue...its not that technical really
[07:08] <kkathman> ports open and forwarded  the other person the same...should be ok
[07:08] <pussfeller> Brondoman, they always planned to have kde as well, they just chose gnome as the main... the kde branch is getting alot of focus among kde developers as far as I can tell
[07:10] <Bicchi> how can i get macromedia flash player installed in kubuntu. I have an amd 64?
[07:11] <Livingstone__> media:/ stop working :'(
[07:11] <Livingstone__> just after a reboot
[07:12] <KaiL> Livingstone__: any error message?
[07:13] <Livingstone__> no, just media:/ is all clear
[07:13] <KaiL> that's strange
[07:14] <KaiL> ps aux | grep hald
[07:14] <KaiL> is there a /usr/sbin/hald listed?
[07:15] <Brondoman> Cool...thanks much for the info!
[07:15] <kkathman> Bicchi: go to the macromedia page and download the player for linux
[07:16] <KaiL> kkathman: there's one for amd64 now?
[07:16] <Bicchi> kkathman: do they have a 64 bit version?
[07:16] <Bicchi> Kail: thanks
[07:16] <kkathman> Bicchi: I dont think there is a difference, but I cant speak for the 64
[07:16] <whiskers> what is the deal with getting banned....it is not my fault hoary isn't worth a crap and breezy needs to be developed
[07:17] <KaiL> whiskers: why do I feel, that I feed a troll, if I talk to you?
[07:17] <kkathman> whiskers: so who banned you? thats who you need to talk to.
[07:18] <whiskers> and everybody in the world knows this...because all they have to do is check at distrowatch.com and they can see on the left that ubuntu costs $1.99 and gentoo costs $5.97
[07:18] <whiskers> kkathman, i don't know who keeps banning me or why...i am just trying to get the stuff working in spite of all the foolish mistakes of the distributors
[07:18] <KaiL> lol, what an argument...
[07:19] <kkathman> Im thinking that you prolly know why you were banned, and just want to air it out now and Im not gonna play that game - ignore
[07:19] <KaiL> whiskers: so Windows XP must be great - over $100
[07:19] <KaiL> Bicchi: no flashplayer for amd64 :(
[07:19] <KaiL> Livingstone__: ping?
[07:19] <kkathman> lol KaiL 
[07:19] <whiskers> kkathman, no i don't know....i am trying to get the basics working and everybody gets pissed off
[07:20] <KaiL> whiskers: which basics are not working?
[07:20] <KaiL> Livingstone__: is there a /usr/sbin/hald listed?
[07:20] <KaiL> ..if you type "ps aux | grep hald"
[07:20] <whiskers> KaiL, well i have rebuilt glibc with linuxthreads2 and linuxthreads_db and db and libdb4.3 and now the database stuff is working but the damn gnome help doesn't work
[07:21] <KaiL> if you won't try to rebuild everything, thinks might work much better
[07:21] <pussfeller> whiskers i find you entertaining so I hope you can keep from getting banned for good
[07:21] <whiskers> and i have included sybase,xbase,odbc, postgres, mysql, sqllite,and ldap drivers
[07:21] <amichai> kkathman: man whats up? my internet in kde is still miserably slow
[07:21] <amichai> kkathman: in gnome and xfce its great
[07:21] <whiskers> and still i get a missing DSO in gnome-help....i don't know what else to include
[07:22] <whiskers> and i also tried rebuilding gnome-help from scratch with docbook, yelp and scrollkeeper and it is still doing no good
[07:23] <whiskers> KaiL, well that is a bad attitude.
[07:23] <whiskers> plus i have the damn problem with mingnu on win98...and the damn symlinks won't work
[07:23] <KaiL> "gnome-help" was the help tool in GNOME 1.4, you know?
[07:24] <kkathman> hmm odd... wonder what browser he was using
[07:24] <whiskers> KaiL, well...why doesn't the damn thing work....what ....are you supposed to know everything about gnome without any docs
[07:24] <kkathman> prolly FF in Gnome
[07:24] <KaiL> use yelp.
[07:24] <kkathman> not many choices there
[07:25] <whiskers> KaiL, yelp doesn't work...even after recompiling everything...it still says missing DSO in glibc
[07:25] <KaiL> eh installes..
[07:26] <KaiL> and - incredible - it works!
[07:27] <KaiL> whiskers: what now..?
[07:27] <whiskers> KaiL, and the bad thing is the ambiguity of DSO....you don't know what to fix.....i have built every database driver that i know of except the commercial stuff like db2,oracle and so on.....so is it a  datasource object that is missing or because of ambiguity of DSO is it a dynamic loadable module for glibc that is missing.
[07:28] <Livingstone__> KaiL: yes
[07:28] <Livingstone__> there is
[07:28] <kkathman> yahalom: you ran off :)
[07:28] <KaiL> why don't you just use the default packages?
[07:29] <KaiL> Livingstone__: now trat
[07:29] <KaiL> ops
[07:29] <kkathman> yahalom: do you want to see if we can iron out your internet issues?
[07:29] <KaiL> Livingstone__: now that's getting really really strange....
[07:29] <whiskers> KaiL, the damn packages don't work at all...the damn hoary was built with the old libdb3....and isn't worth a shit
[07:29] <whiskers> KaiL, so everything has to be changed...and i am getting sick of it
[07:29] <KaiL> whiskers: as I said, here it works
[07:30] <KaiL> maybe libdb3 isn't that bad idea? ;)
[07:30] <whiskers> KaiL, well the only thing that works here is the database programs.....but nothing else works anymore....because nearly everything relies on gnome-help....and the damn thing is missing a DSO
[07:30] <KaiL> Livingstone__: could you try a second reboot? I have really no idea, what could went wrong there
[07:31] <KaiL> whiskers: it isn't, if you use the binaries for everything
[07:31] <whiskers> KaiL, i started with the binaries....and they are not worth a shit....nothing would work...no database program at all
[07:31] <whiskers> KaiL, so that is why i am having to rebuild everything on hoary....
[07:32] <KaiL> oh, really? interesting, like which database program?
[07:32] <whiskers> KaiL, glom would not connect...kexi would not connect...rekall would not connect....only knoda would  connect
[07:32] <whiskers> KaiL, so now i have them all connecting...but everything else is broken
[07:33] <whiskers> it was just a major screwup by ubuntu...they did not plan all the database stuff properly with their glibc and libdb builds
[07:35] <KaiL> maybe you should compile these apps with libdb3 too? ;)
[07:36] <whiskers> KaiL, fuck libdb3...i have the important stuff working on libdb4.3 for now
[07:36] <whiskers> and gllibc20050502
[07:36] <whiskers> but the rest of hoary is screwed
[07:36] <KaiL> wonderfull...
[07:36] <KaiL> a cvs glibc
[07:37] <whiskers> KaiL, well of course it is cvs....they are trying to fix the damn problems
[07:38] <whiskers> KaiL, and the damn ubuntu....made serious mistakes by precompiling a lot of stuff on the wrong libraries
[07:38] <KaiL> ah, so every stable libc around the world is "not worth a shit"?
[07:39] <whiskers> KaiL, that is why gentoo is selling for $5.97 and ubuntu for only $1.99
[07:39] <whiskers> KaiL, absolutely not....that is why there is a cvs...so the damn problems can be fixed
[07:40] <KaiL> ....and if we take you, we get some money?
[07:41] <whiskers> KaiL, i don't have any....the people collecting the money are over at distrowatch.com
[07:41] <whiskers> KaiL, just look at the left hand column
[07:42] <maros> Any sites out there similar to freshmeat?
[07:43] <kkathman> maros: KDE.org is good too
[07:43] <whiskers> kkathman, i did solve the problem with esd in the mean time
[07:43] <maros> kkathman, what do you recommend as a good news reader?
[07:43] <whiskers> kkathman, now skype and audacity work just fine with esd running
[07:43] <maros> Im gonna check out kde.org, thanks
[07:44] <whiskers> kkathman, by rerouting /dev/dsp
[07:44] <whiskers> calls
[07:44] <whiskers> kkathman, so now at least people won't have that problem
[07:45] <whiskers> kkathman, and you don't have to worry about pkill and all that crap
[07:45] <KaiL> kkathman: you miss some funny nonsence
[07:45] <KaiL> ..which I now miss too
[07:45] <whiskers> kkathman, but this gnome-help is a serious problem
[07:45] <kkathman> maros:  oh man there is a good one...and I forgot what it is...hold on
[07:45] <maros> ok :)
[07:46] <KaiL> maros: knode
[07:46] <kkathman> yes thats it 
[07:46] <KaiL> which is already installed on your system (part of kontact)
[07:46] <maros> tantadada
[07:46] <maros> I'll go install it right now
[07:46] <kkathman> snownews is a decent RSS reader, but you can get RSS through Kontact
[07:46] <maros> oh wait
[07:46] <KaiL> it's only not shown in the bar on the left - duno why
[07:46] <maros> it's already installed
[07:46] <maros> :)
[07:46] <whiskers> so the ubuntu is screwed and there is still a symlink problem on win98
[07:47] <KaiL> in kontact: settings -> components
[07:47] <KaiL> there you'll just see it - set the x there and you have it.
[07:47] <Bicchi> i notice that when i drag any program around the desktop the window does not get painted right away and leaves like empty areas without been drawn. How can i fix this. I have a fax computer and enough video card memory and this problem should not be there.
[07:47] <whiskers> so neither IBM approach nor MS approach is working worth a damn
[07:47] <KaiL> don't ask me, what this isn't default.....
[07:47] <maros> alt-f2 and then typed knode... and opened in a seperate window
[07:47] <KaiL> or that way :)
[07:48] <whiskers> KaiL, but if you want money...you should go ask the people at www.distrowatch.com...they are the ones collecting all the money
[07:49] <whiskers> KaiL, i am not spamming...i am not even related to distrowatch whatsoever.....i am just saying that they collect all the money.
[07:50] <whiskers> KaiL, they even get $7.97 for Redhat and Slackware....even more than gentoo
[07:52] <KaiL> Bicchi: which graphics card?
[07:52] <whiskers> KaiL, and i really don't understand that...because there is no better distro than gentoo
[07:53] <Bicchi> Kail: ATI Radeon 9800 pro. Using dualhead at the moment. same display.
[07:53] <maros> when I first opened up knode, there was a window for setting up an account... well, I closed it, then closed knode.. now I open it up again and I can't find an enabled menu item to configure knode and add a news account
[07:53] <whiskers> KaiL, all these problems on hoary would have been a piece of cake to solve on gentoo
[07:53] <KaiL> fglrx activated?
[07:53] <maros> forget what I said
[07:53] <maros> :)
[07:53] <whiskers> KaiL, it is set up to compile the latest libs first and then the programs after that
[07:53] <KaiL> maros: settings -> configure knode :)
[07:53] <KaiL> << eating
[07:54] <Bicchi> Kail: it does not matter. i have done it with fglrx and with "ati" and still the same problem.
[07:54] <Bicchi> Kail: could it be the refresh rate.
[07:55] <Bicchi> Kail: like the HorizSync and VertRefresh. in xorg.conf
[07:56] <kkathman> maros: I just set that up again, need for me to help you through it?
[07:56] <yahalom> anyone here know abotu updating dns?
[07:58] <kkathman> yahalom: should have done that if you were connected to the internet when you installed
[07:58] <yahalom> kkathman: i changed it cos i got the wrong ones
[07:58] <whiskers> well...that win98 sure pisses me off about the symlink jazz....i guess i could take the win98 compilation of postgres and pgaccess and tk/tcl and just use a separated installer for win98
[07:59] <kkathman> ok..you got them from the ISP or your router I suspect
[07:59] <whiskers> but it would have been easier if mingnu would have fixed the symlink problem on win98
[07:59] <kkathman> then set them in control center -> Internet & Network
[08:00] <yahalom> kkathman:i changed them
[08:00] <whiskers> but i did get mplayer pre7 compiled and postgres compiled for win98 in case anybody already paid for win98
[08:00] <maros> kkathman, no, thank you for asking... it seemed that I missed the configure knode option... that menu area was a blind spot... there should be a seperator above Configure KNode
[08:02] <kkathman> okie dokie..np..enjoy maros
[08:02] <whiskers> because if they already paid for win98...MS won't give their money back....so i guess we will just compile all the latest software for win98....so that people get their money's worth
[08:02] <maros> kkathman, will do :D
[08:02] <maros> Kail, what are you eating?
[08:02] <whiskers> that way they can have all the latest software for free for the win98 they already paid for.
[08:05] <whiskers> but it would be easier if they had just fixed the symlink problem on mingnu...because now we have to use a separate gnu installer
[08:05] <maros> for the past couple of days I have been using ubuntu rather than Windows... I don't know why... it's like somekind of urge to use it... I think maybe because I want to learn linux as much as possible... I don't want to be kept in the dark while the rest of the tech world are using linux
[08:07] <kkathman> maros: certainly a good plan for a technical enhancement to your skillset.  I use both systems equally at home as well as consult to those companies that have both. So, I see the pros and cons of both platforms
[08:07] <kkathman> maros: never hurts to learn something new...thats how we grow :)
[08:09] <maros> kkathman, yeah, certainly... I have downloaded the ISOs and installed three seperate versions of mandrake, 8.x, 9.x and 10.x for the past three years... I install them, use them for one to two days and then go back to Windows... but Ubuntu is the first real linux OS that i've been consistently using...
[08:10] <maros> I need to buy another computer, so one has Windows and another has Ubuntu
[08:10] <maros> it would be better than having a dual boot
[08:10] <maros> this way I can use a KVM switch and switch between both computers
[08:11] <whiskers> maros, well that is what i have....one win98 for mingnu to make sure that all linux programs are patched and free for win98....and the other a linux development computer
[08:11] <maros> maybe one day, we can have both OSs opening at the same time on the same computer, each one using a different cpu-core
[08:12] <maros> I'm falling in love with this Alloy theme (similar to java's alloy theme)
[08:12] <whiskers> maros, so that way nobody has to be suckered into that MS XP crap with all that expensive activation stuff
[08:13] <whiskers> maros, they already collected money for win98 and that is all they deserve
[08:13] <Kisain> how do i get to the cd rom through konsole?
[08:13] <Kisain> to install a game
[08:13] <Kisain> with cedega
[08:13] <maros> whiskers, win98 was cool, I was reluctant to change to XP... two years ago, I just had to.. I didn't want to be 'left-behind'
[08:13] <whiskers> maros, if you move from 98 to xp you are moving behind
[08:14] <whiskers> maros, you are going to be trapped in activation stuff and drm stuff
[08:14] <maros> winxp uses more resources, so you need a more powerful computer... thus negating its pros
[08:14] <maros> whiskers, you just wait until longhorn comes out... DRM is going to be a real problem
[08:15] <whiskers> maros, i know because MS wants more money for the same old ideas
[08:15] <Bicchi> I am experiencing ghosting when i move any open window. I have a ati radeon 9800. can anyone help. No, it does not work either with the fglrx drivers loaded.
[08:15] <maros> whiskers, I have to support microsoft
[08:16] <maros> they create jobs in north america
[08:16] <whiskers> maros, well that is your choice....not mine
[08:16] <maros> if MS is gone... so will tons and tons of jobs
[08:16] <whiskers> maros, fuck those bastards...they never gave me a job....or any mondy
[08:16] <whiskers> money
[08:16] <maros> yeah, screw them!!!
[08:16] <maros> they never gave me a job too
[08:17] <maros> hehehe.. I never applied.. but they should've looked for me!!!
[08:17] <maros> :)
[08:17] <maros> wow, this scoring thing in KNode looks very very cool
[08:20] <tetienne> hello
[08:20] <maros> hello
[08:20] <tetienne> is scribus included in knubuntu liveCD ?
[08:21] <tetienne> *Kubuntu
[08:21] <maros> I have no idea... maybe someone else here can answer that.
[08:21] <tetienne> i couldn't find a list of softwares included in the liveCD
[08:22] <KaiL> be warned: I'm back :)
[08:25] <kkathman> brb..need some food :)
[08:26] <kkathman> yum...love chips and queso :)
[08:26] <kkathman> whats scribus anyway?
[08:27] <Riddell> tetienne: scribus didn't fit I'm afraid
[08:27] <kkathman> ahh deskpage layout program
[08:27] <kkathman> its available via apt-get tho
[08:27] <tetienne> arg
[08:27] <KaiL> hi Riddell 
[08:28] <KaiL> do you know, what knode isn't shown in kontact on default?
[08:28] <kkathman> Hello Riddell how goes it today?
[08:28] <tetienne> yeah yeah i know i can install it :)
[08:29] <KaiL> oh, and what about kdelibs-data? *running*
[08:29] <kkathman> good question KaiL 
[08:29] <Riddell> KaiL: I've uploaded a new package to hoary-updates, but nobody seems to know what needs to happen to get it into the archive
[08:29] <KaiL> kkathman: that's why I ask them ;)
[08:30] <kkathman> KaiL: and we appreciate it :)
[08:30] <KaiL> Riddell: lol, at worst 10days...
[08:31] <KaiL> it's kdelibs-data... 3.2 then?
[08:31] <MrDrBob> I have a problem
[08:31] <KaiL> and we solve it (or try to..)
[08:31] <KaiL> so tell us :)
[08:31] <kkathman> MrDrBob: shoot
[08:31] <MrDrBob> I've just managed to get my sound working in Kubuntu 5.04
[08:32] <MrDrBob> And the system sounds work fine
[08:32] <KaiL> no shooting, we aren't in Texas
[08:32] <kkathman> lol Im in Texas tho :)
[08:32] <KaiL> danm
[08:32] <KaiL> eh, damn
[08:32] <kkathman> MrDrBob: well you are ahead of alot of people right there
[08:32] <KaiL> that explains, why you want the people to shoot first, then ask :)
[08:32] <whiskers> MrDrBob, be sure to go compile the latest esound.....it will fix the problems with skype and audacity
[08:32] <MrDrBob> But when I try to play an MP3 in, say, amaroK, or Noatun
[08:32] <MrDrBob> It's all choppy
[08:33] <KaiL> VIA onboard crap?
[08:33] <MrDrBob> I don't use skype or audacity ;)
[08:33] <Riddell> MrDrBob: install akode-mpeg
[08:33] <MrDrBob> ok
[08:33] <Riddell> and killall artsd
[08:33] <MrDrBob> KaiL: It's an SB Live! 24-bit (ca0106 driver)
[08:33] <KaiL> kkathman: your sound doesn't work?
[08:33] <kkathman> KaiL: I have the VIA on board stuff..it works fine to play music
[08:33] <whiskers> MrDrBob, be sure you are not trying to run two sound servers
[08:33] <MrDrBob> ok
[08:33] <KaiL> kkathman: you mean to make noise
[08:34] <kkathman> but its just that there is this hum when I move the mouse or a window...even if I turn the sound all the way down
[08:34] <kkathman> its definitely on-board interference Im sure
[08:34] <whiskers> kkathman, well that could be one of several problems....you might have a bad driver or you might have bad ground or bad shielding.
[08:34] <KaiL> kkathman: that's the problem with the VIA hardware
[08:35] <kkathman> but, when I play music and dont move anything..its beautiful
[08:35] <buz> actually its a problem with board design
[08:35] <kkathman> buz...yeah probably
[08:35] <MrDrBob> whiskers: I'm just running ALSA and artsd
[08:35] <whiskers> kkathman, or you may even have a cheap amplifier in your speakers
[08:35] <kkathman> my mobo is an asus, but a low end...I didnt go all out on my first linux box
[08:35] <KaiL> MrDrBob: ignore whiskers.
[08:36] <buz> which one
[08:36] <MrDrBob> Riddell: Do I kill artsd permanently, or just to get akode-mpeg set up?
[08:36] <MrDrBob> KaiL: Ok. I prefer dogs anyways :P
[08:36] <kkathman> buz.. its their micro ATX  A&V400-MX
[08:36] <Riddell> MrDrBob: that's just to restart it, it'll start itself when you try and play some music
[08:36] <buz> aah
[08:36] <KaiL> MrDrBob: he's something smapper... a troll :)
[08:36] <kkathman> oops  A7
[08:36] <buz> i'm out for a socket939
[08:36] <MrDrBob> Thanks guys
[08:36] <KaiL> A7V400 sounds like VIA KT400...
[08:36] <buz> got the gigabyte ga k8ns
[08:37] <buz> but its complete crap
[08:37] <MrDrBob> I hope this works better than the last Linux advice I got off an IRC server...
[08:37] <whiskers> KaiL, nope...i just try to be honest and apparently you either don't like it or cannot stand it
[08:37] <buz> didnt install it after i had a good look at it
[08:37] <MrDrBob> It resulted in a completely buggered MBR and a low-level format :P
[08:37] <maros> Kail, what did you eat?
[08:37] <buz> was it like rm -rf /
[08:37] <maros> :)
[08:37] <kkathman> VT82xx
[08:37] <KaiL> maros: only some bread
[08:37] <buz> VT82XX is the southbridge
[08:37] <kkathman> AC97
[08:37] <buz> yeah
[08:37] <MrDrBob> buz: I'm not stupid. It was to sort out dual-booting issues with XP and RH9
[08:37] <maros> must be that church bread...
[08:37] <maros> it tastes good
[08:37] <maros> :)
[08:38] <buz> actually the issue is probably because of the routing of signal lines
[08:38] <KaiL> kkathman: maybe Riddells fix helps for your system too?
[08:38] <kkathman> I think I missed that from Riddell
[08:38] <KaiL> gigabyte ga k8ns < nforce3 or 4?
[08:38] <kkathman> did he direct that to me...let me check
[08:38] <buz> nf3
[08:39] <buz> pure crap
 MrDrBob: install akode-mpeg <Riddell> and killall artsd
[08:39] <buz> got northbridge fan and a totally fucked up retention module
[08:39] <KaiL> buz: I have a Asus K8N-E Deluxe, which works perfect :)
[08:39] <buz> i swear it's the last gigabyte board i've bought
[08:39] <buz> i wanted to safe money
[08:39] <buz> there i am, i wasted it
[08:39] <kkathman> Riddell: could you tell me your fix again?
[08:39] <buz> :-((
[08:39] <buz> i'll probably get the abit now
[08:40] <KaiL> buz: do not save money on hardware - the vendors did this more than enough
[08:40] <whiskers> buz, well that shit happens to everybody....look at me...i wasted money on win98
[08:40] <buz> K8T800 probably
[08:40] <MrDrBob> kkathman: All I did from a clean Kubuntu 5.04 install to get working sound was to compile ALSA 1.0.8 and follow the instructions here: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HdaIntelSoundHowto
[08:40] <KaiL> bah VIA
[08:40] <buz> well usually i've been lucky when saving money
[08:40] <buz> this time i got fucked over by gigabyte
[08:40] <buz> their specs on the site aren't even right
[08:40] <buz> and i still think their stupid retention module isn't according to amd's spec
[08:40] <kkathman> buz mine is a KM400A
[08:40] <KaiL> MrDrBob: normally you won't need that
[08:40] <whiskers> buz, well that shit happens...but you can always put a separate el cheapo sound card in
[08:40] <buz> ah i have one of those
[08:41] <KaiL> kkathman: K_M_400?
[08:41] <kkathman> yes
[08:41] <buz> nice for value chipsets
[08:41] <KaiL> which such a "wonderful" onboard graphics?
[08:41] <MrDrBob> lol...talking of value:
[08:41] <MrDrBob> http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?action=c2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=85287
[08:41] <buz> but since i have two screens, i need dual head so integrated graphics is useless for me
[08:41] <MrDrBob> You need SLI :-P
[08:41] <kkathman> Kail were you referring to the akode-mpeg?
[08:41] <KaiL> kkathman: bingo
[08:41] <buz> WTF would anyone buy SLI
[08:41] <MrDrBob> http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?action=c2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=85287
[08:42] <MrDrBob> Cheapy :D
[08:42] <MrDrBob> (Relatively)
[08:42] <buz> SLI is for crazy people
[08:42] <KaiL> buz: if he needs an 8-head configuration? :)
[08:42] <whiskers> buz, well i don't know...but why not try running an composite sline to one monitor and a vga to another
[08:42] <buz> can get matrox cards then
[08:42] <whiskers> buz, that way you can have two screens with no problem
[08:42] <KaiL> only have 4 heads each
[08:42] <kkathman> well I also got a tip last night that I should do this rmmod snd-via82xx; modprobe snd-via82xx dxs-support-4
[08:42] <buz> can use pci
[08:42] <KaiL> kkathman: does that help?
[08:42] <whiskers> buz, but why do you want two screens
[08:43] <MrDrBob> Technically, you can get 8 different screens using two 4-headed PCI-Express cards
[08:43] <whiskers> buz, where will you put them
[08:43] <buz> otoh, for the traders using 8 screens the hardware cost probably isn't the issue
[08:43] <KaiL> buz: as lok as you have free PCI slots :)
[08:43] <whiskers> buz, and why pay the extra electric bill for them
[08:43] <kkathman> KaiL:  havent done it yet...Im reluctant to do anything until I fully understand what that does
[08:43] <buz> but not with the gforce
[08:43] <kkathman> KaiL: can you help me understand it?
[08:43] <whiskers> buz, well i think the geforce has a composite and vga out if you want two screens
[08:43] <KaiL> it disables "VRA" :)
[08:44] <whiskers> buz, but what for...it will just run up your electric bill
[08:44] <kkathman> KaiL: and VRA is???
[08:44] <KaiL> no idea
[08:44] <kkathman> oh ok hehe
[08:44] <kkathman> so literally I type that exact thing....or do I replace the xx with something?
[08:45] <KaiL> nop
[08:46] <kkathman> KaiL: so I type it as it is..WITH the xx eh??   Do I reboot after or just try it
[08:46] <KaiL> just type that (as root btw)
[08:46] <KaiL> no reboot (that would revert the effect)
[08:47] <KaiL> you just unload that driver and load it again with the VRA disabled
[08:48] <kkathman> ok..
[08:48] <KaiL> MrDrBob: the sound didn't work without alsa 1.0.8?
[08:48] <kkathman> I wonder what happened to my volume control on my desktop?
[08:48] <kkathman> hmm
[08:49] <KaiL> they lost their mixers
[08:49] <kkathman> ok those two statements didnt do anything to fix it
[08:50] <KaiL> and the akode-mpeg?
[08:50] <kkathman> trying that now
[08:50] <kkathman> its installed...but no effect
[08:50] <kkathman> its just a noisy board I think
[08:51] <kkathman> lots of ambient noise
[08:51] <Alfred1881> hey all how can i terminate ALL the printer task, bacause there was an error , and every time i plug my printer, it takes the file 1/3 and it stops moving
[08:52] <whiskers> Alfred1881, pause printer...go to jobs and cancel
[08:52] <kkathman> oh well
[08:52] <kkathman> hehe
[08:52] <KaiL> kkathman: killall artsd
[08:52] <KaiL> then try again
[08:52] <kkathman> try what?
[08:52] <MrDrBob> KaiL: I don't know what comes with Kubuntu by default, but I compiled my own alsa kernel module, and configured it from scratch, and it worked
[08:52] <KaiL> to play a file
[08:53] <kkathman> oh I can play files fine
[08:53] <MrDrBob> Even though it hadn't done (repeatedly) in RH9 :(
[08:53] <kkathman> thats NOT the problem
[08:53] <Alfred1881> whiskers the jobs list is empty
[08:53] <whiskers> Alfred1881, how can that be if you are printing something
[08:53] <KaiL> MrDrBob: alsa 1.0.6 modules (as they are in 2.6.10) and alsa 1.0.7 userspace stuff
[08:53] <kkathman> the porblem is when I DONT play anything...all kinds of little noises happen and when I move windows...theres a hum
[08:53] <whiskers> Alfred1881, my job list shows what is being printed and what is still in queue
[08:53] <KaiL> kkathman: then get a real soundcard
[08:54] <kkathman> KaiL: well prolly not...my Win box has an Audigy so I will just keep it over there :)
[08:54] <Alfred1881> i just need the command to stop all jobs :)
[08:55] <whiskers> Alfred1881, just use gnome and go to the job list
[08:55] <whiskers> Alfred1881, in system under printing in gnome there is a printer option...bring it up and go to the job list...pause printer and cancel all jobs
[08:55] <MrDrBob> aaaaaaaargh!
[08:55] <MrDrBob> I can't find akode-mpeg with Kynaptic
[08:56] <whiskers> Alfred1881, if you click on your printer it should bring up the job list
[08:56] <KaiL> MrDrBob: enable universe in /etc/apt/sources.list
[08:56] <kkathman> MrDrBob: just sudo apt-get update,  then sudo apt-get install akode-mpeg
[08:56] <kkathman> oh and that too :)
[08:56] <MrDrBob> ook
[08:56] <KaiL> Alfred1881: kontrolcenter -> devices -> printer
[08:57] <KaiL> there you have a tab for the jobs :)
[08:57] <KaiL> ...so not...
[08:58] <MrDrBob> Now the only thing left between me and constant music is the Windows domain :(
[08:58] <MrDrBob> (All my MP3s are stored on the server, which is only accessible through a Windows 2003 domain)
[08:58] <kkathman> KaiL: if I have a CD/DVD rom burner on a samba share (windows) and I share that device, can I not access it from Linux as long as Im on the same network?
[08:59] <KaiL> kkathman: you can, but read only
[08:59] <MrDrBob> crap
[09:00] <kkathman> hmm ok... then I could not write to it?
[09:00] <MrDrBob> What's the fix for the kdelibs-data / kdenetwork thingy clash?
[09:00] <KaiL> MrDrBob: you can integrate Linux into a Windows domain
[09:00] <kkathman> what if it were the other way around KaiL ?
[09:00] <KaiL> MrDrBob: kdelibs-data? there: http://moba.linuxfaqs.de/kdelibs-debug.sh 
[09:00] <kkathman> ahemmmmmmm  Samba
[09:00] <MrDrBob> KaiL: I know...it's just a pain
[09:00] <MrDrBob> KaiL: Thanky
[09:01] <KaiL> kkathman: same, you can't burn cds over net, as you need driect hardware access
[09:01] <kkathman> ok... well I was just hoping there was a trick somewhere
[09:01] <KaiL> MrDrBob: a fixed package is on the way [and might be ready somewhere this year *g*] 
[09:02] <MrDrBob> kk
[09:02] <MrDrBob> Hmph...it wants to eat my Kubuntu CD :(
[09:03] <KaiL> as it reinstalles kcontrol, which behaves silly after the update
[09:07] <MrDrBob> LOL
[09:07] <MrDrBob> The choppiness has stopped
[09:07] <MrDrBob> But now it's playing at about 400% of normal speed
[09:08] <KaiL> that's not a bug, that's a feature - now you can hear the next covered version already today *G*
[09:08] <MrDrBob> ...
[09:09] <Kisain> omg! cs in kubuntu rocks
[09:09] <MrDrBob> CS?
[09:09] <MrDrBob> Counter Strike??
[09:09] <Kisain> i was gettin 56fps on a 16mb vid card o_0
[09:09] <Kisain> yup
[09:09] <MrDrBob> hmmm
[09:10] <MrDrBob> Can you get Steam running happily?
[09:10] <KaiL> well, CS is old and that cards too ;)
[09:10] <Kisain> the only prob was there was no sound
[09:10] <Kisain> no man cz
[09:10] <MrDrBob> Sound appears to be the topic of the day :P
[09:10] <Kisain> cs cz i mean
[09:10] <KaiL> install 'alsa-oss' for sound.
[09:10] <Kisain> how?
[09:10] <KaiL> apt-get
[09:12] <Kisain> this will do what?
[09:12] <KaiL> apt-get install alsa-oss
[09:12] <KaiL> never installed anything?
[09:12] <Kisain> i know what to do but what does it do lol
[09:12] <Kisain> what does alsa do
[09:12] <KaiL> install a wrapper for old style oss sound
[09:13] <Kisain> oh ok i get it
[09:13] <Kisain> lol
[09:13] <KaiL> alsa is "advanced linux sound architecture" (the currently used soundsystem)
[09:13] <Kisain> how come linux can't play multiple sounds from diffrent programs?
[09:13] <Kisain> nice
[09:13] <Kisain> i mean at the same time?
[09:14] <KaiL> normally eigher alsa or your card should do that
[09:14] <Kisain> like if my teamspeak is running i can't play music or hear system sounds
[09:14] <MrDrBob> How come it's playing things 4x too fast??!
[09:14] <Kisain> lol
[09:14] <KaiL> ah - that's the problem with oss: THAT can not play multiple sounds...
[09:15] <Kisain> is therea way to get linux to do that?
[09:15] <Kisain> or is it really rocket scientist hard?
[09:15] <Kisain> or can i curcumvent it buy putting a nother sound card in?
[09:16] <KaiL> start teamspeak with "artsdsp teamspeak", then it's go through the kde soundserver and so doen't block the card
[09:16] <Kisain> oh so run it from the command line?
[09:16] <KaiL> ^^ was just hoping, he quits
[09:17] <KaiL> Kisain: or modify the menu entry
[09:17] <Kisain> oh ok
[09:18] <Kisain> you rock man ^_^\
[09:18] <MrDrBob> I don't suppose anyone knows?
[09:19] <KaiL> MrDrBob: ask google :p
[09:19] <MrDrBob> Okie dokie
[09:22] <Kisain> brb
[09:26] <MrDrBob> I think this might be it
[09:26] <MrDrBob> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-23296.html
[09:26] <error403> Is there anybody here who could talk me through compiling my kernel in a PM?  I've tried multiple times, Googled it and tried several suggestions, and still not got anywhere
[09:26] <MrDrBob> But I'm running KDE, and this was for GNOME
[09:27] <MrDrBob> I'm going to try restarting to fix the problem
[09:28] <whiskers> error403, i told you...it takes practice
[09:29] <whiskers> error403, plus some distros make it hard to compile the kernel while others make it easy
[09:29] <error403> lol
[09:29] <error403> well, im using Kubuntu
[09:29] <whiskers> error403, i haven't tried on ubuntu because i have so many other problems...but slackware and gentoo make it very easy
[09:29] <error403> and it is the ONLY distro i have never been able to compile a kernel on...
[09:30] <whiskers> error403, well there are major screwups on ubuntu...maybe they will be fixed in breezy
[09:30] <error403> hmmm
[09:30] <error403> hmmm, is that why there are Ubuntu patches for the kernel source?
[09:31] <whiskers> error403, i haven't heard of any...but usually the problem is with duplicate headers
[09:31] <whiskers> error403, you can get around this if you want to track them all down and move some out of the way
[09:31] <error403> right.....
[09:31] <whiskers> error403, but it is a major pain
[09:31] <error403> but, the problems doesnt seem to be compiling
[09:31] <error403> but booting
[09:31] <error403> it NEVER boots...
[09:31] <kkathman> well okie dokie...back again...hmm got some new work to do...always good :)
[09:31] <whiskers> error403, and there are more serious problems with ubuntu
[09:32] <error403> like?
[09:32] <whiskers> error403, like the major glibc srewups
[09:32] <error403> whiskers: would that explain compiling problems?
[09:33] <error403> whiskers: but why would it compile fine but then not boot?
[09:33] <whiskers> error403, no....i told you...if you have a problem compiling the kernel...check for inconsistent headers
[09:33] <whiskers> error403, well tell lilo or grub to load your new kernel manually
[09:33] <error403> whiskers: i tried compiling ALL linux filesystems into the kernel, and it still says unable to mount the root fs
[09:33] <error403> i do
[09:34] <error403> but it says it cannot mount the root fs on block (0,0)
[09:34] <error403> which is what everything else is booting fine from
[09:34] <whiskers> error403, what kind of hardware do you have
[09:34] <whiskers> error403, are you using raid or that sata crap
[09:34] <Kisain> thanx dude you have re established my faith in linux
[09:35] <error403> whiskers: no, im on a laptop :P
[09:35] <error403> whiskers: just a ATA100 60GB drive
[09:35] <whiskers> error403, ok...call up a virtual terminal in the kernel and make sure that some devices are being generated
[09:35] <error403> :S
[09:35] <whiskers> error403, be sure to compile the kernel with virtual terminal support
[09:36] <error403> whiskers: virtual terminal?
[09:36] <whiskers> error403, so you can work without mounting anything
[09:36] <error403> i got about the best idea ive had in ages....
[09:36] <error403> im gonna test this shit on a virtual machine... should that make a difference?
[09:36] <whiskers> error403, what is that....swich to gentoo and get rid of all these headaches
[09:37] <Kisain> gentoo is for people who have way to much time on thee hands
[09:37] <whiskers> error403, ok...look for the virtual terminal option in the kernel config....and bring up a shell once you force the kernel with lilo or grub
[09:39] <error403> whiskers: how do i get the kernel to boot and NOT try to mount file systems etc?
[09:40] <whiskers> error403, i told you...use lilo or grub to manually load the kernel into ram...then go into a virtual shell before anything is mounted and see what is going on with your devices
[09:41] <whiskers> error403, try to use mknod to manually create some devices and then see if you can access them
[09:41] <whiskers> error403, ok...it is very simple
[09:41] <error403> whiskers: where abouts is this Virtual Terminal option?
[09:42] <whiskers> error403, it is in the kernel config parameters...look for it
[09:43] <Kisain> grrrrr....wtf
[09:44] <Kisain> i was just playin cs now it can't connect to find servers :/
[09:44] <Kisain> stupid steam
[09:45] <Kisain> anyone have any ideas?
[09:46] <error403> whiskers: what command should i be using to compile?
[09:46] <error403> whiskers: im using make all modules_install install
[09:47] <whiskers> error403, i told you don't worry about the modules at first...just get you a basic kernel working...you can then go back and add modules
[09:47] <whiskers> error403, just be sure to include the minimum stuff in your kernel so you can use it
[09:47] <error403> whiskers: so what should my compile command be?
[09:48] <whiskers> make mrproper, make config, make, make install,,...don't worry about make modules and make modules-install
[09:49] <error403> ok
[09:49] <whiskers> error403, you can do all that extra crap later after you get the basics working
[09:49] <MrDrBob> Restart didn't solve anything
[09:49] <error403> whiskers: should i use the command line or X-based config?
[09:49] <MrDrBob> Although it did confirm my suspicions that something's gone wrong with my login :(
[09:49] <error403> i suppose its easier to say no to stuff on command line...
[09:49] <whiskers> error403, it should not make any difference...i always use the command line but people say it is far easier with the graphics approach
[09:51] <MrDrBob> Anyone know why for some reason I'm now not getting a graphical login?
[09:51] <MrDrBob> (It gives me a console one)
[09:51] <whiskers> error403, with the command line you get one thing at a time and you have to know what you are doing so you set consistent options....but they say with the graphical approach you can see all the config options simultaneously
[09:51] <MrDrBob> I think it's prolly something to do with how I installed my nVidia graphics driver
[09:52] <whiskers> error403, i have just never got around to using it
[09:52] <MrDrBob> Runlevels...
[09:53] <MrDrBob> I'm running in runlevel 2...that's normal isn't it?
[09:53] <whiskers> MrDrBob, usually 2-5 should be ok
[09:53] <whiskers> MrDrBob, they are the typical multiuser runlevels
[09:53] <MrDrBob> Then why aren't I getting a graphical login?
[09:53] <MrDrBob> whiskers: I can read inittab ;)
[09:54] <whiskers> MrDrBob, because your video driver is screwed
[09:54] <MrDrBob> Nope
[09:54] <MrDrBob> If I log in in the console, and type "sudo startx", X.org will run fine ;)
[09:54] <MrDrBob> I'm in it now
[09:54] <whiskers> MrDrBob, well there is more than just inittab

[09:54] <Cowlike-away> 	 <li>rc1.d - Single User Mode</li>
[09:54] <Cowlike-away> 	 <li>rc2.d - Single User Mode with Networking</li>
[09:54] <Cowlike-away> 	 <li>rc3.d - Multi-User Mode - boot up in text mode</li>
[09:54] <MrDrBob> whiskers: Go on then
[09:54] <Cowlike-away> 	 <li>rc4.d - Not yet Defined</li>
[09:54] <Cowlike-away> 	 <li>rc5.d - Multi-User Mode - boot up in X Windows</li>
[09:54] <Cowlike-away> 	 <li>rc6.d - Shutdown</li>
[09:54] <Cowlike-away> 	</ol>
[09:55] <Diablo-D3> eww html
[09:55] <MrDrBob> lol
[09:55] <MrDrBob> Runlevel 5, then?
[09:55] <Cowlike-away> run level 5 for x boot
[09:55] <MrDrBob> okie dokie
[09:55] <MrDrBob> Thanky
[09:55] <MrDrBob> I could've sworn it was originally level 2...
[09:55] <Diablo-D3> hey MrDrBob 
[09:55] <Diablo-D3> you did something wrong
[09:55] <Diablo-D3> you dont sudo startx
[09:55] <Diablo-D3> you just startx
[09:55] <MrDrBob> Doesn't work
[09:55] <whiskers> MrDrBob, look in /etc/rc5.d and see what options you have set for runlevel 5 for example
[09:55] <MrDrBob> I think root has a different $PATH to me
[09:55] <Diablo-D3> sudo chmod +s /usr/X11R6/bin/xorg
[09:56] <MrDrBob> kk
[09:56] <Diablo-D3> iirc ubuntu doesnt do that for xorg
[09:56] <whiskers> MrDrBob, because there is more to it than just iniitab
[09:56] <Diablo-D3> MrDrBob: you can also try xinit
[09:56] <MrDrBob> I haven't touched that file
[09:57] <whiskers> MrDrBob, well i doubt your runlevels are the problem....try startx and see if it isn't your bad video driver
[09:57] <Diablo-D3> its a command
[09:57] <Diablo-D3> similar to startx
[09:57] <MrDrBob> I'm running in X at the moment!!
[09:57] <error403> make mrproper
[09:57] <error403> oops
[09:57] <error403> wrong window...
[09:58] <MrDrBob> We're doing kernel compilation now?
[09:58] <Diablo-D3> error403: whahah
[09:58] <Cowlike> he's not gonna get x bootup unless he uses run level 5, unless he uses non-standard init files
[09:58] <whiskers> MrDrBob, oh...well i thought you were the one who said x did not start
[09:58] <Diablo-D3> Cowlike: wrong
[09:58] <whiskers> Cowlike, he can alter his init files any way he wants to
[09:58] <Diablo-D3> I start X all the time from the console
[09:58] <MrDrBob> whiskers: X isn't starting by default at the moment, but I can start it easily and without error using "sudo startx"
[09:59] <Cowlike> i know he can but it's non-standard
[09:59] <Cowlike> hence my comment
[09:59] <Diablo-D3> how is it nonstandard?
[09:59] <whiskers> Cowlike, we don't give a shit about standards
[09:59] <MrDrBob> Cowlike: All I did to alter my init scripts was to temporarily change the runlevel to 1 so that I could install a new graphics driver without X runnign
[09:59] <Diablo-D3> MrDrBob: but you dolt, you're running as root
[09:59] <Diablo-D3> MrDrBob: I CAN HACK YOU
[09:59] <whiskers> Cowlike, that is why gentoo is so popular because it broke all the standards
[09:59] <MrDrBob> Diablo: I don't usually run as root
[09:59] <Diablo-D3> yes, but thats the effect of sudo startx
[09:59] <MrDrBob> In fact, this is the only exception ever ;)
[09:59] <MrDrBob> I know :(
[10:00] <Cowlike> diablo, read wtf the run levels mean
[10:00] <Diablo-D3> Cowlike: read wtf I'm saying
[10:00] <Cowlike> of course you can alter it
[10:00] <Diablo-D3> I have not hacked shit, and xinit still works for me.
[10:00] <Diablo-D3> I'm not sure what MrDrBob didnt do, but he should be able to do it too
[10:00] <Cowlike> no shit but you won't get graphical login
[10:00] <Diablo-D3> obviously not
[10:00] <Diablo-D3> but why would I want something silly like that? I'm already logged in.
[10:00] <Kisain> dude can you hack me?
[10:01] <Kisain> i'm just curious to see
[10:01] <Diablo-D3> Kisain: no.
[10:01] <Kisain> don't hert my shit just try :)
[10:01] <Kisain> oh ok
[10:01] <Kisain> damn
[10:02] <Kisain> oh well
[10:02] <Cowlike> diablo, THIS is what me asked... <MrDrBob> Anyone know why for some reason I'm now not getting a graphical login?
[10:02] <Cowlike> comprende now?
[10:02] <Cowlike> s/me/he/
[10:06] <whiskers> and you should never impose somebody elses so called standards on anyone else
[10:06] <whiskers> because nobody gives a shit about standards...what they want is to get things working
[10:06] <whiskers> and whatever standards you have will just get in the way
[10:06] <whiskers> and have to be changed and updated
[10:06] <Cowlike> whiskers, he asked a very simple question. 
[10:06] <Cowlike> how to get graphical login
[10:07] <Cowlike> without unusual init scripts, it's trivial
[10:07] <Cowlike> he was using wrong run level
[10:07] <whiskers> Cowlike, well i was trying to do that but he said he said he already had x running
[10:07] <Cowlike> whiskers, the meaning of those run levels has been around for a LONG DAMN time
[10:07] <Cowlike> all unixes are the same that way
[10:07] <Cowlike> if YOU wanna do it differently, no problem
[10:07] <whiskers> Cowlike, no...fuck their meaning...we design them like we want them
[10:07] <Cowlike> but don't pretend  run levels have no meaning
[10:08] <Cowlike> design whatever tf you want dude, i don't care. but there is a standard meaning on ALL unixes
[10:08] <whiskers> Cowlike, they only thing we don't usually change is the option for single user and shutdown run level
[10:08] <Cowlike> you're just wrong about that
[10:08] <whiskers> Cowlike, because we like having those options
[10:08] <Cowlike> i'm not arguing about forcing you to conform
[10:09] <Cowlike> personally i don't give a shit what you do on YOUR system
[10:09] <whiskers> Cowlike, and i dont give a shit what you do on your system
[10:09] <whiskers> likewise
[10:09] <Cowlike> if the admin at work makes run level 5 boot single user, he fucked up
[10:09] <whiskers> no he did not...if that is the way he wants his computer to work
  pointless argument
[10:09] <whiskers> he paid for the hardware and he should be able to use it any way he wants to
[10:09] <Cowlike> no he did not
[10:10] <Cowlike> it's a corporate computer, not his personal playground
[10:10] <Cowlike> other unix users or admins would look at it and say WTF?
[10:10] <whiskers> Cowlike, oh well i don't give a damn about any of those corporate whores....or any of their problems
[10:10] <Cowlike> whiskers, don't sit there and pretend the run levels have no meaning to admins and users everywhere
[10:11] <whiskers> Cowlike, they can design them any way they want them....and you have no business telling someone else what they can and can't do.....Who made you God?
 diablo, THIS is what me asked... <MrDrBob> Anyone know why for some reason I'm now not getting a graphical login?
[10:12] <Diablo-D3> probably because he doesnt have gdm or kdm installed
[10:12] <Cowlike> no, he further said he's using run level 2 
[10:12] <Cowlike> and thought that was graphical login
[10:12] <Cowlike> BY DEFAULT!
[10:12] <Cowlike> jesus christ
[10:12] <Cowlike> that was the   whole problem
[10:12] <Diablo-D3> then why didnt he fix it?
[10:12] <Cowlike> just boot run level 5 ON ANY DISTRO and you get grahical login
[10:12] <Cowlike> he DID
[10:13] <Cowlike> he said thx and left
[10:13] <Diablo-D3> THEN WHATS THE PROBLEM!?
[10:13] <Diablo-D3> You people infuriate me
[10:13] <Cowlike> the problem is you and whiskers arguing that run levels are amorphous words with no meaning
[10:13] <kkathman> smouche!! how are you today man :)
[10:14] <Diablo-D3> they are amorphous words with no meaning
[10:14] <yahalom> kkathman: i changed my dns to a us based dns server and its sooooooooooo fast
[10:14] <Diablo-D3> no distro follows the fucking standard
[10:14] <Cowlike> forget linux, boot solaris, hpux, aix, whatever... they are all the same 
[10:14] <Diablo-D3> even lsb-compliant distros get it wrong
[10:14] <kkathman> yahalom:  Glad to hear thats working much better for you now :)
[10:15] <Cowlike> what distro does multi user in rl 2? or no graphical login in rl 5?
[10:15] <smouche> hey kkathman!
[10:15] <Cowlike> just name a single distro
[10:16] <Cowlike> or graphical login in anything but 5?
[10:16] <Cowlike> just name a single distro
[10:17] <smouche> ho's your kicker shaping up, kkathman?
[10:17] <kkathman> smouche looks good!
[10:18] <kkathman> thanks for those tips last night smouche :)
[10:18] <Diablo-D3> afk food
[10:19] <smouche> If Tm_T is around, I want to apologize for thinking he was putting me on about figlet...
[10:19] <yahalom> kkathman: yeah its my damn isp :(
[10:19] <kkathman> smouche hes at his parents this weekend I think...at least I know he was with them beginning yesterday afternoon my time
[10:19] <smouche> you're welcome, kkathman!
[10:20] <kkathman> smouche I still have no idea whats going on with my file transfers
[10:20] <smouche> heh heh, did you try figlet, kkathman?  pretty cool.
[10:20] <kkathman> yeah Ive seen it :)
[10:21] <kkathman> smouche I am doing everything I need to on my router to forward port ranges for DCC send and receive. And I still cant anything
[10:21] <smouche> kkathman, I no nothing about bash, so I can't get this to do what I want yet -
[10:21] <smouche> maybe you know how to fix this command:
[10:21] <kkathman> but Im wondering if ubuntu defaults their firewall to be active on installation?
[10:21] <smouche> if I type  figlet hello | nano hello.txt
[10:22] <kkathman> if thats the case, it could be getting past my firewall, but not the internal one :)
[10:22] <smouche> I get nano opened, with the file called hello.txt, and the figlet art spelling "hello" in the text
[10:22] <smouche> but, then nano is frozen and I can't edit or save
[10:22] <kkathman> awwww
[10:23] <smouche> I wonder what I need to add to that "figlet hello | nano hello.txt" command...
[10:23] <kkathman> hmmm got me on that one
[10:23] <MrDrBob> Cowlike: Can you send me your /etc/kde3/kdm/kdmrc file please? I think my problem lies there
[10:23] <yahalom> ok bros i lost my gnome after install kde, i assume it was just removed from my xsessions, what and where do i add? thanx
[10:23] <smouche> I guess I have to learn how to make the figlet program exit after it pipes to that file...
[10:24] <kkathman> yahalom: that would be unusual...I did not lose mine
[10:24] <kkathman> smouche that sounds about right
[10:25] <smouche> kkathman, did you ask about the firewall in #ubuntu?
[10:25] <kkathman> not yet
[10:25] <yahalom> kkathman: well it happened before
[10:25] <yahalom> kkathman: i just need to add it back to xsessions, or something
[10:26] <smouche> kkathman, would it be feasible to take your linux box off the router, and plug it directly into your - what, dsl, cable? - and check if there's a difference?
[10:27] <yahalom> kkathman: this is what u do. make gnome.desktop and move it o /usr/share/xsessions
[10:28] <yahalom> then next time when u login u can choose gnome again (As long as u have gnome on ur system)
[10:28] <whiskers> Cowlike-away, well Mr. Smartass...hoary boots into the graphical mode on runlevel2 instead of runlevel5 and so what.
[10:28] <whiskers> Cowlike-away, you asked for an example...so shove that one
[10:29] <MrDrBob> whiskers: It still doesn't boot graphically at all for me :P
[10:30] <kkathman> smouche...well I figuratively did that, but putting my local IP outside the firewall in the DMZ
[10:31] <smouche> ah, now I know what you meant by that; I see.
[10:31] <kkathman> anyway... its not the firewall smouche, theres nothing set up there
[10:32] <kkathman> so Im back to square one
[10:32] <smouche> dumb question maybe, but could your isp be blocking stuff?
[10:32] <kkathman> smouche not for direct p2p I wouldnt think
[10:32] <whiskers> MrDrBob, well hard to say because i don't know how you configured your computer compared to mine
[10:32] <whiskers> MrDrBob, but check all relevant things
[10:33] <MrDrBob> whiskers: Which would be?? I'm only really used to the RH9 boot process...the Kubuntu (Debian) one is different
[10:33] <whiskers> MrDrBob, yes every distro is a bit different ...they enjoy the freedom to be unique.
[10:34] <whiskers> MrDrBob, and they should have that freedom
[10:34] <MrDrBob> whiskers: Yeah...so what files should I be looking in??
[10:34] <kkathman> smouche let me try DCCing you if I could?
[10:34] <MrDrBob> whiskers: I'm not saying they shouldn't have freedom...freedom is good (as in beer)
[10:35] <smouche> sure kkathman
[10:36] <smouche> I'm on
[10:36] <kkathman> ok wait a sec
[10:36] <whiskers> MrDrBob, well first make sure that x works and you don't have a driver problem shutting it down...then make whatever adjustments you need to so that whatever default runlevel you choose x will be started
[10:36] <kkathman> there
[10:37] <kkathman> you see anything?
[10:37] <MrDrBob> whiskers: X works fine...but I think it might be a login manager thing that is actually the problem...I'll check
[10:37] <smouche> nothing here, kkathman
[10:38] <kkathman> crap
[10:38] <smouche> oops!
[10:38] <smouche> hang on
[10:38] <MrDrBob> whiskers: kdm is set to start in runlevels 2-5
[10:38] <kkathman> this is maddening
[10:38] <smouche> yeah, I got the request, kkathman
[10:38] <kkathman> on windows it wasnt that hard
[10:38] <smouche> sorry, I forgot to switch windows in irssi
[10:38] <whiskers> MrDrBob, well...type kdm at the command prompt and see if it comes up
[10:38] <kkathman> ohh ok let me try again
[10:38] <MrDrBob> whiskers: But I can't find a mention of X anywhere in the /etc/rd*.d/ folders
[10:38] <smouche> how do I accept that DCC kkathman?
[10:39] <kkathman> there we go
[10:39] <kkathman> uhmm...I dunno in irssi
[10:39] <MrDrBob> whiskers: kdm doesn't like being started from the prompt
[10:39] <kkathman> in Konversation you get a little box that pops up
[10:39] <whiskers> MrDrBob, well there is more to it than just inittab and rc.d folders...also notice what is in inet.d folders
[10:39] <kkathman> maybe irssi doesnt support it
[10:40] <MrDrBob> whiskers: I've only got an "xorg-common" file (relating to X) in /etc/init.d/
[10:40] <whiskers> MrDrBob, did you type kdm
[10:40] <MrDrBob> whiskers: No, I'm in X
[10:40] <whiskers> MrDrBob, well shutdown x and type kdm 
[10:40] <kkathman> oh well
[10:40] <whiskers> MrDrBob, to see if kdm brings it up
[10:41] <smouche> kkathman, I just need to rtfm!
[10:41] <MrDrBob> whiskers: OK, just give me a mo ;)
[10:41] <whiskers> MrDrBob, also watch for a respawn of x in inittab
[10:41] <kkathman> smouche haha
[10:41] <kkathman> dont we all sometimes :)
[10:41] <smouche> weird, kkathman, I typed DCC and now I see "kkathman chat" - but I can't type anything more...
[10:42] <smouche> ok, I think I got it now, kkathman
[10:44] <MrDrBob> whiskers: How do you shut down X? *sounds to start n00bish*
[10:44] <whiskers> MrDrBob, well i use ctrl-alt-backspace...but be sure it is not being respawned
[10:44] <smouche> well, anyway, we had the DCC connection!
[10:45] <ZeCrazyTux> hey
[10:47] <MrDrBob> whiskers: "sudo kdm" did absolutely nothing
[10:47] <kkathman> smouche lol...want me to try again??
[10:47] <smouche> yeah
[10:47] <kkathman> ok here goes
[10:47] <kkathman> initiating
[10:48] <smouche> I'm in there, where are you?
[10:48] <kkathman> I never got the ACK back from you I guess
[10:48] <smouche> hmm, anyway, #kkathman.
[10:48] <kkathman> that seems to be the problem
[10:49] <smouche> when I typed /DCC in response to your "DCC chat from kkathman", that's what irssi gave me
[10:49] <kkathman> the ACK is coming back on some port that I dont have open I guess
[10:49] <smouche> interesting
[10:49] <kkathman> This is all very well documented in mIRC but not documented at all in Konversation
[10:50] <smouche> I'm sure it's documented to death in irssi, but I'd rather pump Tm_T for info ;)
[10:50] <kkathman> lol
[10:50] <kkathman> well its funny, NO one knows about this
[10:51] <kkathman> its like the designers of Konvo didnt wan anyone to use the feature
[10:51] <ZeCrazyTux> where are the kubuntu mirors list for apt-get ?
[10:51] <ZeCrazyTux> is*
[10:52] <smouche> ok, but kkathman, do you suppose this is somehow connected to the issue of you not showing up as online in kopete? or coincidence?
[10:53] <kkathman> smouche I have no idea...but this is DCC, which is more or less peer to peer, while yahoo, AOL are all private networks that are being hacked by GAIM, Kopete etc
[10:53] <erhan> hi all
[10:53] <kkathman> smouche gonna try it one more time...being outside the firewall
[10:54] <kkathman> did you get the notice?
[10:55] <erhan> how to get mc in kununtu ?
[10:55] <smouche> yeah, kkathman!
[10:55] <erhan> i couldnt do it with apt .is anybody know it?
[10:55] <kkathman> see that tells me its not a firewall issue
[10:55] <kkathman> cuz Im bypassing it
[10:55] <kkathman> that means its the program on my system somehow
[10:58] <smouche> well, all I can tell you is I now have op status apparently in a channel called #kkathman
[10:59] <smouche> which was created when I typed /DCC in response to your request...
[10:59] <smouche> you were showing as having joined that channel for a sec, then terminated.
[11:00] <smouche> erhan, I think mc is already part of the default installation
[11:00] <erhan> but when i type mc .it didnt get in 
[11:01] <kkathman> hmmm
[11:01] <smouche> erhan- did you type it in a terminal?  if you used the run command box, it won't work
[11:01] <erhan> yea in terminal
[11:02] <smouche> strange.
[11:02] <erhan> yea same here
[11:02] <erhan> thats why i ask 
[11:02] <kkathman> very odd for sure...it wasnt that hard in windows and mIRC
[11:02] <smouche> erhan, try "man mc" and see if there's a manual page for it - if so, you should have it on there
[11:04] <erhan> yea there snt
[11:04] <smouche> rats, I can't believe it, I was out all day in nasty weather, and now the sun's coming out
[11:05] <smouche> just when I wanted to take a nap.
[11:05] <kkathman> smouche since I am not "kicker intensive" I added two more desktops
[11:06] <maros> kkathman, when you switch between desktops
[11:06] <maros> why don't the windows in the taskbar disapear?
[11:06] <kkathman> smouche I'd really love to get a panel just for applications, and then let the kicker show me the running apps
[11:06] <smouche> congrats, kkathman!  My most used command is Ctrl Alt arrows for switching desktops; got 6
[11:07] <kkathman> maros:  because they want you to be able in any desktop to get to the program you want to, without having to remember which desktop it was running on
[11:07] <maros> smouche, ctrl + alt + arrows, doesn't work
[11:07] <smouche> kkathman, what I did was have a panel on top with only a taskbar (running apps) and the others for app launchers etc
[11:07] <smouche> sort of like xfce
[11:07] <maros> kkathman, oh... just thought it would be easier on the eyes, you know.. to feel the desktop is 'clean'
[11:07] <kkathman> smouche how did you accomplish that
[11:08] <Diablo-D3> ooh
[11:08] <kkathman> maros: I thought that too, but I see their reasoning
[11:08] <smouche> maros, maybe your keyboard layout is different from mine.
[11:08] <Diablo-D3> I should get around to inquiring about that adblock patch
[11:08] <maros> smouche, do you mind if I can see a screenshot of your desktop? you too kkathman? I'd really love to see them :)
[11:09] <smouche> kkathman, if you right click any panel, you can add another panel, then in "configure panel" you can position or size it however you want.
[11:09] <kkathman> smouche:  I guess I'd like to understand how you split those up that way...I assume you just create a new panel somehow, then let the kicker actually handle running apps and transfer the panel icons to the second?
[11:09] <smouche> sure maros, but I have no where to post, unless someone has a temp site handy for that?
[11:09] <maros> smouche, just a min
[11:09] <kkathman> smouche: gotcha...I'll play with that
[11:10] <maros> http://www.theimagehosting.com/
[11:10] <maros> up to 1 MB
[11:10] <smouche> um, kkathman, basically you just make the new panel, put it where you want, then add stuff to it by right clicking on it
[11:10] <erhan> brb
[11:10] <smouche> ok, maros, let me try that, thanks
[11:11] <maros> smouche, I hope it works :)
[11:11] <kkathman> smouche how did you "add a new panel"
[11:12] <kkathman> smouche did you click on the kicker to add another panel?
[11:13] <maros> smouche, you can also try http://imageshack.us/index3.php
[11:14] <maros> kkathman, how about a screenshot of your desktop? :)
[11:14] <kkathman> maros:  I will when I get it the way I like it :)
[11:14] <kkathman> :)
[11:14] <kkathman> Im just about there
[11:14] <maros> kkathman, right... you're fixing the kicker thing ;)
[11:15] <maros> Im anxiously waiting
[11:15] <maros> :)
[11:15] <kkathman> yeah Im trying to find out how to get a second panel created
[11:15] <maros> you right click the first panel
[11:15] <kkathman> I dont think that works on the kicker tho
[11:15] <maros> Add to Panel - Panel - Panel
[11:15] <maros> try it
[11:16] <kkathman> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
[11:16] <smouche> kkathman, it's right there -- right click, and Add to panel ---> panel
[11:16] <kkathman> just didnt go far enough :)
[11:17] <kkathman> hmm I think I chose the wrong kind of panel
[11:17] <smouche> ok, maros, I registered and I'm uploading...
[11:17] <maros> kkathman is probably resizing it to tiny
[11:17] <maros> smouche, you had to register?
[11:17] <maros> http://imageshack.us/index3.php   << this one doesn't need you to register
[11:17] <kkathman> ok
[11:18] <joda> hey - quick question about network setup. I'm trying to set a static ip, gateway and  dns, but when I define it in knetworkconf, via ControlPanel, the gateway is not saved. I can ping ip adresses, but not www adresses. any idea what I'm doing wrong? or, even better, any idea how I can fix it?
[11:18] <kkathman> brb
[11:18] <joda> s
[11:20] <amichai> guys kubuntu got rid of my gnome :(
[11:20] <joda> maybe one of you can tell me which file contains the network settings?
[11:20] <Kisain> i have a question can you guys help?
[11:20] <kkathman> ok smouche its not doing what I want to do
[11:20] <smouche> rats, the .png is too big, won't let me upload.
[11:20] <maros> smouche.. just a min
[11:20] <Kisain> i have a hard drive on another system......
[11:20] <maros> I'll find a place where you can upload 1.5 megs
[11:21] <smouche> maros, sorry, I don't have time to compress these shots right now, so later...
[11:21] <Kisain> i want to create a folder on my system called storage 
[11:21] <maros> smouche, alright... np
[11:21] <smouche> kkathman, whats the trouble?
[11:21] <Kisain> and i want to do it so that it's in the begining of kon
[11:21] <Kisain> where the bin boot dev folders are
[11:22] <Kisain> and i want to take all the data off of a hd thats on my network and dump it in there
[11:22] <Kisain> than network it
[11:22] <Kisain> how do i do this?
[11:22] <kkathman> smouche: what I want, is to have the kicker exclusively have the control center, apps, the tray and clock
[11:22] <smouche> yeah, so?
[11:23] <kkathman> smouche; then I want the opened apps to be on the second panel
[11:23] <smouche> just remove everything else, and there you are.
[11:23] <kkathman> but when I open an app it appears on the second AND first panel
[11:23] <smouche> kkathman, so remove from one panel, add to another.
[11:23] <smouche> it takes time
[11:23] <kkathman> yeah but try opening a new app
[11:23] <kkathman> it will be on both panels
[11:23] <smouche> you can't "move" from one panel to another, you have to build each panel from scratch
[11:23] <Kisain> can some one tell me how to do this
[11:25] <smouche> kkathman - can you im me on kopete for a sec?
[11:25] <kkathman> sure
[11:27] <Kisain> how to create and network a folder in kubuntu?
[11:27] <Kisain> and make it accessable to windows xp?
[11:29] <yahalom> no one here can explain to me why kde got rid of my gnome?
[11:30] <Bicchi> I am experiencing a lot of ghosting with my monitor. I have an ATI radeon 9800 video card with a fairly new system. I have also tried using the fglrx driver and this provides not help.
[11:31] <Bicchi> Could it be the refresh rate that i have used in my xorg.conf?
[12:00] <kkathman> ok got the kicker and taskbars lined out :) 
[12:00] <kkathman> yay
[12:04] <flames> hi, if i click a mailto: link, open evolution wizard, but i prefer thunderbird, where can i change default mailto protocol application?