[12:23] <mike_douglas> any reason why gksu doesn't automatically default to using sudo-mode?
[12:24] <Nafallo> mike_douglas: gksudo?
[12:29] <mike_douglas> Nafallo: well there is gksudo and gksu, why have gksu default to su-mode if there is no default root password?
[12:29] <Nafallo> mike_douglas: because you can enable root if you like?
[12:30] <mike_douglas> ah right, duh :P
[01:52] <mattb> hi
[01:52] <mattb> just at our local installfest and hacking up a quick package
[01:53] <Burgundavia> ok
[01:53] <mattb> wondering how I can add a menu entry to the Gnome Applications menu (or one of it's submenus)?
[01:53] <zyga> mattb: entry? use .desktop files, menu? probably hack menu config
[01:54] <zyga> mattb: .menu files ;-)
[01:54] <Burgundavia> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Standards_2fmenu_2dspec
[01:54] <zyga> freedesktop.org has the standards, your drive has excelent examples 
[01:54] <zyga> locate .menu
[01:54] <zyga> locate .desktop
[01:55] <mattb> cool
[01:55] <mattb> lots of new ubuntu installations being created today :)
[01:56] <zyga> mattb: anything large scale?
[02:01] <mattb> zyga: we've got maybe 40 people here atm
[02:02] <mattb> http://www.wlug.org.nz/InstallFest.2005-05-07
[02:02] <mattb> unfortunately our nice hoary cd's didn't quite make it here in time
[02:04] <|QuaD->  /join #epiphany
[02:07] <zyga> mattb: you actually only need one you know ;] 
[02:07] <zyga> mattb: who comes for such install fests?
[02:09] <mattb> zyga: lots of weird people 
[02:09] <mattb> we'll have photos soon
[02:09] <mattb> we were wanting to send people away with CDs
[02:09] <mattb> so they could evangelise it to their friends
[02:14] <zyga> mattb: how weird? and how technicall?
[02:23] <jdub> tseng: TOMBOY! MUINE!
[02:23] <tseng> jdub: YES!
[02:23] <tseng> jdub: NEW ICON
[02:24] <Nafallo> or... today and yesterday :-)
[02:24] <Nafallo> ...refreshing :-)
[02:26] <tseng> Nafallo: we're moving the channel to EFNet
[02:26] <tseng> gotta get in the spirit of things
[02:26] <Nafallo> tseng: OMG!
[02:26] <Nafallo> tseng: I hope you're kidding me?!?
[02:28] <tseng> nope, we decided we werent reaching the 13-17 y/o computer user demographic
[02:28] <tseng> so we are planning some outreach programs
[02:28] <dilinger> mako: yea, so, looks like i'll be getting back down to nyc early on sunday
[02:28] <tseng> Nafallo: yes, im joking.
[02:29] <Nafallo> tseng: *s* last time I was on efnet was in... 2000 or something :-P.
[02:29] <mattb> zyga: I'll put some photos up in a second
[02:30] <Nafallo> mattb: where? :-)
[02:30] <tseng> jdub: guess whats next?
[02:30] <Nafallo> tseng: quakenet? ;-)
[02:31] <tseng> no.. gamesnet
[02:31] <Nafallo> lol
[02:31] <tseng> but i actually meant beagle
[02:31] <Nafallo> tseng: I know :-)
[02:32] <Nafallo> tseng: want me to build something? ;-)
[02:32] <tseng> no
[02:32] <tseng> everything should be building when things on amd64 start clearing dep-wait
[02:32] <Nafallo> hehe, damn. I'm bored ;-).
[02:32] <tseng> thanks for your help though
[02:33] <Nafallo> tseng: np. have been fun :-).
[02:33] <tseng> jdub: oh jeez, you put a patch in diff.gz
[02:34] <Nafallo> tseng: btw, I've started looking into packages for real now :-).
[02:34] <tseng> Nafallo: rock on
[02:34] <tseng> Nafallo: im planning to write a more begininer quickstart doc soon
[02:34] <Nafallo> tseng: going throw pitti's CVE-list for universe :-)
[02:35] <tseng> sweet
[02:35] <Nafallo> tseng: that will rock! :-)
[02:35] <tseng> im planning to work on that also
[02:35] <jdub> tseng: package?
[02:35] <tseng> get on the mailing list
[02:35] <Nafallo> tseng: that to :-)
[02:35] <tseng> jdub: beagle
[02:35] <tseng> jdub: gaim fix
[02:35] <jdub> ahr
[02:35] <tseng> hm its in patches/
[02:35] <tseng> why'd uupdate try to apply it
[02:35] <jdub> gtk-sharp is ready, etc?
[02:35] <tseng> yes
[02:35] <jdub> elite
[02:36] <Nafallo> tseng: s-r@l.u.c? already there :-).
[02:36] <Burgundavia> jdub, what is goining into main for breezy?
[02:36] <tseng> Nafallo: wha?
 get on the mailing list
[02:37] <tseng> Nafallo: ah rock on
[02:37] <Nafallo> tseng: security-review@l.u.c :-)
[02:37] <tseng> i got it now
[02:37] <tseng> just needed a hint
[02:37] <Nafallo> tseng: *s* :-)
[02:39] <mattb> Nafallo: the installfest? we're in Hamilton, New Zealand
[02:39] <Nafallo> mattb: ohh, I thought you were to put the pictures on the web :-)
[02:40] <dilinger> haha
[02:40] <dilinger> http://lwn.net/Articles/134945/
[02:40] <dilinger> what an unfortunate name for a daemon
[02:40] <tseng> haha
[02:40] <tseng> did you see the advisory for ethereal?
[02:40] <Nafallo> lol
[02:40] <tseng> it has like 30 vulns
[02:41] <Nafallo> tseng: yay!
[02:41] <zyga> hehehe
[02:41] <zyga> :-)
[02:42] <tseng> yeah we have like 10 sniffers with ethereal at work
[02:42] <Nafallo> hmm, universe ;-)
[02:42] <zyga> c'ya guys 'n' girls
[02:42] <tseng> Nafallo: yeah dude, i want you to backport every fix in the next hour
[02:42] <tseng> step on it
[02:42] <Nafallo> tseng: lol
[02:43] <Nafallo> tseng: I jump on it tomorrow after my haircut. I will be able to see the screen for once ;-)
[02:43] <tseng> you have matthew garett disease?
[02:44] <Nafallo> tseng: didn't follow that one. care to point me to a photo? :-)
[02:44] <eruin> Nafallo: don't cut it too short like I did
[02:44] <eruin> you want to retain that sweet communist look :/
[02:44] <tseng> Nafallo: he cut it now, his hackergotchi is pretty shaggy
[02:45] <Nafallo> eruin: will be something like short on the sides and lot's in the middle ;-)
[02:45] <Nafallo> tseng: yay! the before and after shoot! almost forgot :-P.
[02:48] <Nafallo> hmm
[02:48] <eruin> http://appelsinjuice.org/img_2620.jpg :i
[02:48] <eruin> that's before... now it's ... SHORT. :/
[02:49] <tseng> jdub: dude, we totally need to get in a working inotify/gamin combo
[02:50] <tseng> jdub: there have been much better inotify patches in since hoary uvh
[02:50] <jdub> yeah
[02:50] <jdub> zul has been tracking them
[02:51] <jdub> our first breezy kernel should have them
[02:51] <jdub> ouch, new evince/poppler combo is slow
[02:51] <jdub> hrm
[02:51] <tseng> hm
[02:51] <jdub> at least when images are used
[02:51] <tseng> at least beagle is fast
[02:52] <Nafallo> eruin: hehe, nice pic :-(
[02:52] <tseng> beagle_0.0.9-0ubuntu1_source.changes is NEW
[02:52] <jdub> THREE TIMES!
[02:52] <Nafallo> s/\(/\)/
[02:52] <jdub> tseng: bonus! :)
[02:52] <tseng> elmo: beagle is safe to clear new now btw
[02:55] <Nafallo> lol
[02:55] <Nafallo> Mithrandir's pics are great! :-)
[02:55] <jdub> dpkg: warning - unable to delete old file `/usr/share/dotnet/mono/gtk-sharp-2.0': Directory not empty
[02:55] <jdub> ^ lots of these :)
[02:56] <tseng> yuck
[02:56] <tseng> crap
[02:56] <jdub> http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/longhorn_5048.asp
[02:56] <tseng> yeah all the symlinks
[02:56] <jdub> ^ btw, interesting reading
[02:56] <tseng> are still in there
[02:57] <Nafallo> hmm
[02:58] <Nafallo> I need to get a new laptop :-P
[02:58] <Nafallo> one our battery max on this one.
[02:58] <Nafallo> sucks
[02:59] <tseng> jdub: yep i still alot of crack in /usr/share/dotnet
[02:59] <tseng> jdub: higher priority is making sure everything works on amd64 as expected atm
[03:00] <tseng> Nafallo: your job ^ :)
[03:00] <Nafallo> tseng: I was just about to tell you that :-)
[03:01] <Nafallo> tseng: I'm going to a work interview the 17:th btw :-)
[03:02] <tseng> rock on
[03:02] <Burgundavia> jdub, we have a year and a half to make them look like fools. Not very hard
[03:02] <Nafallo> tseng: things should turn out that I can go to the next conference in that case! :-)
[03:02] <tseng> rock on
[03:05] <tseng> jeez, longhorns photoviewer is a lightyear behind f-spot
[03:08] <Burgundavia> I saw the some previous screenshots and was very underwelmed
[03:08] <Burgundavia> "Microsoft says that it is moving away from the "My" naming convention in Explorer" <-- that is interested
[03:09] <Burgundavia>  /ed/ing
[03:09] <tseng> yeah, finally
[03:09] <tseng> My Crackpipe
[03:09] <Burgundavia> moved by brother from 98 to XP
[03:09] <Burgundavia> should have heard him bitch
[03:09] <Burgundavia> about the half-assed mutliuser stuff
[03:10] <tseng> thom: :(
[03:10] <tseng> thom: some stuff on amd hit build wait
[03:10] <tseng> er depwait
[03:10] <thom> yeah, not surprised
[03:10] <tseng> when i fubared mono
[03:11] <thom> i'll just wait impatiently (or go to bed, as a better option)
[03:11] <Nafallo> tseng: what's next? :-)
[03:11] <Nafallo> tseng: mono?
[03:11] <tseng> Nafallo: gecko-sharp*, gtksourceview-sharp*, monodevelop
[03:11] <tseng> is whats left
[03:13] <Nafallo> wtf
[03:13] <tseng> ?
[03:13] <Nafallo>  -> Considering  libgtk-cil (>= 0.95)
[03:14] <Nafallo>       Tried versions:
[03:14] <Nafallo>    -> Does not satisfy version, not trying
[03:14] <Nafallo> E: Could not satisfy build-dependency.
[03:14] <Nafallo> E: pbuilder-satisfydepends failed.
[03:14] <tseng> yeah?
[03:14] <tseng> i just said
[03:14] <tseng> its in depwait
[03:14] <Nafallo> ahh, thought it was left to try and build ;-)
[03:23] <tseng> gah tomboy ftbfs
[03:25] <tseng> wth
[03:27] <jdub> bbq!
[03:28] <tseng> zomg
[03:28] <tseng> yeah dave beckett built this source into a binary
[03:28] <tseng> why cant I
[03:28] <tseng> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/t/tomboy/0.3.2-4ubuntu1/tomboy_0.3.2-4ubuntu1_20050507-0140-i386-failed
[03:29] <tseng> jdub: putting beagled and best into my gnome-session startup adds a good whack to the startup time, very noticeable to the user
[03:30] <jdub> yeah
[03:30] <Burgundavia> it is beagled, as best alone doesn't seem to do it
[03:30] <tseng> its certainly beagled
[03:30] <tseng> but you cant have best w/o it
[03:31] <Burgundavia> indeed
[03:33] <bob2> is beagle in breezy yet
[03:33] <tseng> bob2: in NEW
[03:33] <tseng> i just uploaded
[03:34] <bob2> queue/ROCK
[03:35] <bob2> s'pose I need to find something else to whinge about when it gets approved
[03:35] <tseng> yeah
[03:35] <tseng> another shoulder to cry on
[03:41] <ajmitch_> mattb_: installfest going well then?
[03:41] <mattb_> yeah
[03:41] <mattb_> reasonably
[03:41] <mattb_> prob 30-40 people
[03:41] <ajmitch_> good to hear
[03:41] <mattb_> I'll get photos up sometime, too busy fixing other things atm :)
[03:41] <jdub> GOOD MORNING NEW ZEALAND UBUNTU LOVERS!
[03:42] <mattb_> afternoon actually :P
[03:42] <jdub> it is always good morning
[03:42] <ajmitch_> hey jdub 
[03:42] <jdub> morning ajmitch_ 
[03:42] <Nafallo> hehe
[03:43] <Keybuk> it's always morning in jdubland
[03:43] <ajmitch_> universal greeting time
[03:43] <jdub> morning Keybuk 
[03:43] <Keybuk> morning
[03:43] <jdub> Keybuk: how's hacking?
[03:45] <Keybuk> hacking was good, we did good stuff
[03:45] <Keybuk> today is Saturday though, and we're going to go find kangaroos
[03:46] <bytee> 11.45am seems morning enough for me
[03:48] <Nafallo> so does 3:48pm :-)
[03:49] <mattb_> bytee: we're always ahead of australia here in NZ :)
[03:49] <bytee> mattb_: oh, thats right
[03:50] <jdub> Keybuk: when do you fly out? have any time in sydney?
[03:52] <Keybuk> fly form Canberra at 12:40 tomorrow
[03:52] <Keybuk> flight from Sydney is at 3:15
[03:53] <Keybuk> probably only enough time to check in and change flights and stuff :(
[03:53] <bob2> are they connecting?
[03:54] <Keybuk> not sure, one is a Qantas dash-8 and the other a British Airways 747
[03:54] <bob2> you want to join them up
[03:55] <bob2> or else you have < 1.75 hours to get your stuff to the international terminal
[03:55] <tseng> that was no problem for me
[03:56] <Keybuk> that's easy
[03:56] <Keybuk> I've already confirmed the BA flight and picked my seat and stuff
[03:56] <tseng> unless you look dodgey like bob2 
[03:57] <tseng> and get a bunch of hassle from security
[03:57] <bob2> hey
[03:57] <bob2> only coming back into the country
[03:58] <tseng> dude i threw out all my food for nothing coming into au
[03:58] <tseng> they didnt even check
[03:58] <tseng> i had some snacks and tea
[03:59] <bob2> hah
[03:59] <bob2> last time we cam back from england I brought tea
[03:59] <bob2> which I declared
[03:59] <bob2> and they told me was fine
[03:59] <bob2> so I got through customs quicker than jdub and spiv who had nothing
[04:02] <Keybuk> yeah, it's often quicker to declare and go through the red one than the green or blue if they're doing security checks
[04:04] <mattb> Nafallo: photos as promised
[04:04] <mattb> http://www.wlug.org.nz/~jrm/installfest-2005-05-07/
[04:04] <mattb> mostly of the setup lsat night
[04:04] <mattb> but we'll add some of the scary attendees soon :)
[04:06] <crb> hey, it's mattb. :)
[04:07] <Nafallo> mattb: :-)
[04:08] <Nafallo> hmm, we have only two MOTUs? :-P
[04:09] <tseng> ?
[04:09] <tseng> what are you looking at
[04:09] <tseng> im on launchpad
[04:10] <Nafallo> tseng: you're not a member of team MOTU ;-)
[04:10] <tseng> oh we;;
[04:10] <tseng> srbaker:;;:ll:g
[04:10] <tseng> wtfirssibbq
[04:11] <Nafallo> ehm...
[04:11] <tseng> hah sweet
[04:11] <Burgundavia> archive.u.c just broke for me? can some else confirm this?
[04:11] <tseng> no
[04:11] <Burgundavia> gah
[04:11] <Nafallo> Burgundavia: worksforme(tm)
[04:12] <Burgundavia> hmm, must be my connection
[04:12] <Burgundavia> I was getting 400k+, then it died
[04:17] <Nafallo> hmm
[04:17] <Nafallo> I should sleep :-P
[04:18] <Nafallo> 4h or so :-P
[04:19] <Nafallo> *yawns*
[05:09] <bluefoxicy> this is going to work right?  I redid my drives, / is now on sata, /dev/sda8 but the kernel can't find it. . . . . (panic at mounting / vfs!)
[05:09] <bluefoxicy> so I'm reinstalling my kernel?
[05:10] <ska-fan> bluefoxicy: what's the boot command line?
[05:12] <bluefoxicy> ska-fan: kernel          /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.10-5-686 root=/dev/sda8 ro quiet splash
[05:12] <bluefoxicy> I reinstalled the kernel to get a new initrd
[05:12] <ska-fan> no idea then
[05:12] <bluefoxicy> well i'll hit it.
[05:13] <bluefoxicy> if it breaks I'ma come back here and bitch while I google.
[06:19] <fabbione> morning
[06:30] <tritium> hi fabbione 
[09:12] <cartman> gcc 4.0 fails on all arches :(
[09:24] <Burgundavia> crap, need a #ubuntu op
[09:24] <Burgundavia> tritium, crimsun, bob2 ?
[09:25] <Burgundavia> help
[09:25] <Burgundavia> jdub, mdz, mako ping
[09:26] <Burgundavia> anybody?
[09:27] <Burgundavia> fabbione, thnaks
[09:27] <fabbione> np
[09:27] <Burgundavia> gah, very frustrating
[09:43] <dholbach> morning
[09:48] <Nafallo> morning
[09:51] <ogra> morning
[09:57] <bob2> where are the hoary cdimages hiding?
[09:57] <bob2> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/5.04/current/ only has dvds
[09:58] <Nafallo> bob2: releases.ubuntu.com? :-)
[09:58] <bob2> ah
[09:58] <fabbione> sparc is installing now...
[09:58] <fabbione> ops
[10:01] <dholbach> hey mako: could we announce the cc meeting somewhere?
[10:02] <dholbach> mako: i want the guys to know when they have to show up
[10:03] <bob2> dholbach: when is it?
[10:04] <dholbach> bob2: "tuesday is the day"
[10:04] <dholbach> that's all i know :-/
[10:05] <ajmitch_> day after kickoff?
[10:05] <bob2> hah
[10:47] <dholbach> morning Mithrandir 
[10:50] <Mithrandir> hiya Daniel
[10:52] <ogra> hey Mithrandir 
[10:59] <Mithrandir> ogra :)
[10:59] <ogra> :)
[11:00] <dholbach> :-)
[11:10] <ajmitch_> hi mvo 
[11:10] <mvo> hey ajmitch_ 
[11:10] <mvo> morning all
[11:10] <ajmitch_> have a good night last night? :)
[11:11] <dholbach> hey mvo
[11:12] <mvo> hey dholbach, up so early :p
[11:12] <dholbach> of course
[11:12] <dholbach> :-D
[11:12] <mvo> ajmitch_: yeah, it was fun (we went to a irish pub)
[11:13] <ajmitch_> mvo: he's been online for at least an hour :)
[11:13] <ajmitch_> sounds like fun
[11:21] <zyga> mvo: hey, how's going?
[11:22] <erich> The Ubuntu Live CD really should have more recovery/repair tools on it. Like dd_rescue, iostat and a few such things...
[11:29] <thom> good morning
[11:29] <dholbach> hellas thom!
[11:29] <ajmitch_> morning thom 
[11:30] <mvo> morning thom
[11:30] <mvo> zyga: hey. it goes pretty good, thanks!
[11:33] <ogra> hey thom 
[11:38] <dholbach> hey seb128!
[11:39] <seb128> daniel !!!
[11:39] <seb128> ;)
[11:39] <dholbach> wooohooo! :-)
[11:39] <seb128> wooloomoolooo ? :)
[11:40] <dholbach> hahaahaa, woolloomooloo was great :-)
[11:40] <bob2> did you guys get to wollongong?
[11:41] <dholbach> no... i just smiled everytime i read the name :-)
[11:41] <seb128> not than I know
[11:41] <bob2> haha
[11:41] <p0m> Heh.
[11:42] <p0m> There's actually a "Whoop Whoop" in the NT.
[11:48] <bob2> redistributing these disks will be interesting
[11:53] <p0m> bob2?
[12:14] <dholbach> hellas doko
[12:18] <Treenaks> p0m: whoop whoop? home of teh l33t k1dd13z?
[12:28] <p0m> Treenaks: Heh. Home of nowhere, officially.
[12:43] <Kamion> woo, debian-installer finally built
[01:08] <Burgundavia> where do I look for ftfbs source stuff?
[01:09] <bob2> people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/ or so
[01:12] <Burgundavia> ok, this is odd
[01:12] <Burgundavia> devmapper builds http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/d/devmapper/2:1.01.00-4ubuntu2/devmapper_2:1.01.00-4ubuntu2_20050504-0111-i386-successful
[01:12] <Burgundavia> but it is not in breezy
[01:12] <Burgundavia> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=libdevmapper1.00&searchon=names&subword=1&version=all&release=all
[01:14] <bob2> better to check the archive server than that page
[01:14] <bob2> it's probably only updated once a day or something
[01:14] <Burgundavia> my machine is saying it is locally installed
[01:15] <Burgundavia> and I just updated
[01:15] <Burgundavia> that is what prompted me to check it out
[01:16] <Burgundavia> well, it built and in archive.u.c
[01:16] <bob2> there you go
[01:17] <Burgundavia> and it has made it to my mirror (ca0
[01:18] <Burgundavia> ah, I see the issue (I think)
[01:19] <Burgundavia> currently a changeover to a new version 1.0.1
[01:21] <lifeless> bob2: have we fixed that sparc problem yet ?
[01:21] <bob2> no
[01:21] <bob2> no one seems to have any idea
[01:21] <bob2> aside from "alignment problem"
[01:21] <bob2> and the code it seems to be in is horrendously hard to debug
[01:21] <dholbach> grats Kamion! :-)
[01:21] <Burgundavia> hmm, what to file the bug on
[01:22] <lifeless> bob2: get me a login somewhere, I'll fix it
[01:22] <Nafallo> morning all
[01:24] <bob2> lifeless: the guy who owned the sparc machine I was using turns it off at night
[01:24] <bob2> I've emailed him to ask him to turn it on in the morning
[01:24] <lifeless> thanks
[01:24] <bob2> and I'll email you the account details
[02:23] <seb128> elmo: evince sync from debian incoming please
[02:46] <sebest> hello, anyone tryed initng?
[02:46] <sebest> I modified the script to make it work with ubuntu, and got it booting till gdm
[02:46] <sebest> But i need to work on having good dependencies between scripts, any advice?
[02:55] <Nafallo> thom: ping?
[03:12] <sebest> initng anyone?
[03:16] <trukulo> sebest: not here
[03:16] <sebest> trukulo: why?
[03:17] <trukulo> i don't use it
[03:17] <sebest> oki
[03:17] <jdub> tseng: ha ha ha ha
[03:18] <jdub> tseng: "novelization" ha ha
[03:18] <tseng> jdub: :)
[03:18] <dholbach> hey jdub 
[03:19] <Nafallo> jdub: morning :-)
[03:19] <jdub> hey everyone
[03:22] <Nafallo> man... don't you guys hate it when you ssh to your server and then forgets what you should do with it?
[03:22] <tfheen> get a faster setup?
[03:22] <robertj> Nafallo: the prope thing then to do is either lsof or do uptime
[03:23] <Nafallo> robertj: hehe, oki :-)
[03:23] <robertj> Lathiat: for what?
[03:23] <Lathiat> robertj: discovering servers
[03:23] <Lathiat> via mdns-sd
[03:23] <Nafallo> tfheen: naah, it's fast enough. or did you think about my brain? ;-)
[03:23] <robertj> I thought mdns-sd was already in for some things
[03:24] <Lathiat> yeh but it doesn't use the ultra cool fully free (LGPL) avahi mdns-sd library. :)
[03:24] <robertj> Lathiat: make a chooser clone ;)
[03:24] <Lathiat> it uses (used? i dunno if it was ripped out) the ugly apple licensed involved code
[03:24] <robertj> Services on the left, hosts on the right
[03:24] <Nafallo> firewall-rules...
[03:24] <robertj> then you can both do everyone a favor and avoid writing a nautilus plugin (well in the short-term ;)
[03:25] <Lathiat> hmm i wonder what the kernel does if a unix socket path string isnt null termianted
[03:25] <Lathiat> robertj: oh well i could integrate it into the code rather than writing a plug-in
[03:25] <Lathiat> schpose i should get the source and look around
[03:25] <robertj> Lathiat: btw, do you know if there are python or  c# bindings packaged anywhere?
[03:25] <Lathiat> robertj: to what?
[03:25] <Lathiat> avahi?
[03:25] <robertj> to ... forgetting the name...
[03:26] <Lathiat> damn cat just refuses not to lie on top of my hand and half of my laptop
[03:26] <robertj> howl!
[03:26] <Lathiat> oh, howl
[03:26] <Lathiat> howl has crappy licensing :)
[03:26] <Lathiat> but no, i dont think there is
[03:27] <Lathiat> there might be some c# ones
[03:27] <robertj> oh, I thought it was clean
[03:27] <Lathiat> nope
[03:27] <robertj> what about avahi then
[03:27] <Lathiat> avahi is clean. :)
[03:27] <Lathiat> all LGPL
[03:27] <robertj> in terms of bindings
[03:27] <Lathiat> and theres no bindings yet, but there will be
[03:27] <Lathiat> im just getting the C library working nice first
[03:27] <Lathiat> then i'll tackle others
[03:27] <jdub> Lathiat: oh, you're hooking up gnome-vfs and avahi?
[03:27] <Lathiat> rather than write a binding i'll probably implement them natively
[03:27] <Lathiat> jdub: will be this week i hope
[03:27] <jdub> elite!
[03:27] <Lathiat> jdub: so its gnome-vfs i want to tackle and not nautilus as such?
[03:27] <jdub> yeah
[03:27] <Lathiat> ah
[03:27] <robertj> any thoughts on the Chooser UI though?
[03:28] <Lathiat> robertj: well the idea is just to display http, ftp servers in the network dialog.
[03:28] <Lathiat> no idea what a chooser ui is
[03:28] <robertj> Lathiat: MacOS 9 had "Chooser"
[03:28] <Lathiat> jdub: the engine is pretty much roaring to go
[03:28] <jdub> Lathiat: mucking with the existing  howl support code shouldn't be too rough
[03:28] <Lathiat> jdub: still working on the library/daemon 
[03:28] <robertj> you launched it and on the left you clicked "Laserjet" "AppleShare" "Windows File Sharing" whatever and then on the right, all the hosts popped up
[03:29] <Lathiat> robertj: oh, right
[03:29] <robertj> then you double clicked the host and there you were. If it was a printer it added it, if it was a host it popped up a list of shares, etc.
[03:29] <Lathiat> they should all just show up, you shouldnt nee dto care what protocol you want :)
[03:29] <robertj> Lathiat: well suppose you are an end user and don't know where the file server is
[03:30] <Lathiat> robertj: you open network and something called 'File server' should appear, whatever protocol it uses.....
[03:30] <Nafallo> alternative, choose printer, fileshares and the like.
[03:30] <robertj> Lathiat: there are like 40 machines serving out files here
[03:30] <Lathiat> Nafallo: and printers dont show up in the network dialog
[03:31] <robertj> but only 3 of them are serving out "Windows Files"
[03:31] <Lathiat> right
[03:31] <Lathiat> the network dialog actually has a separate 'windows network' section
[03:31] <robertj> actually about 20 of those 40 machines are juts sharing printers
[03:31] <Lathiat> (but shows current workgroup ones in the toplevel)
[03:31] <Nafallo> Lathiat: I refered to the "Laserjet" stuff? those aren't fileshares I hope? :-)
[03:31] <Lathiat> Nafallo: no, they wont be in the network dialog
[03:31] <robertj> Nafallo: I think I've explained it poorly
[03:32] <Lathiat> that would come under gnome-cups-admin
[03:32] <Lathiat> robertj: i see what your getting at
[03:32] <Lathiat> robertj: but i dont know any end users that know what protocol their corporate file server speaks :)
[03:32] <Lathiat> that aside
[03:32] <robertj> anyway, suffice it say that end users have alot of difficulty with that stuff. Especially considering there is a large chance that what they want IS going to be on the "Windows Network" section because the admin wants to run one file sharing service and that service is either DAV or CIFS
[03:33] <robertj> Lathiat: that's why it should show up "File Sharing" on the left
[03:33] <robertj> or "Printers"
[03:33] <Lathiat> right, but thats not as much of a service discovery problem
[03:33] <Nafallo> if they do know what protocol the server speaks they should check the "expert" box ;-)
[03:33] <Lathiat> as it is looking at each protocol and looking
[03:33] <Lathiat> so youd need to say to samba
[03:34] <Lathiat> "tell me if this machine is only sharing printers"
[03:34] <Lathiat> which would take a long time to query 40 machines...
[03:34] <Amaranth> that's how windows does it, isn't it?
[03:34] <Amaranth> and it caches the results
[03:34] <Lathiat> (altho that would suck less in samba4, where everythign is async, currently operations block others in nautilus samba support)
[03:34] <Nafallo> pitti: hi! :-)
[03:34] <robertj> Lathiat: windows does do that though and it works fairly well
[03:34] <pitti> Hey folks
[03:34] <Lathiat> robertj: yeh?
[03:35] <Lathiat> i've never seen it personally
[03:35] <robertj> When you add a printer it gives you the option to select a network printer
[03:35] <Amaranth> when you are browsing the 'Entire Network'
[03:35] <Lathiat> robertj: join/mail avahi@freedesktop.org with ideas?
[03:35] <Amaranth> it caches the results
[03:35] <dholbach> hey pitti 
[03:35] <robertj> oddly enough if you want to add an IP only printer you select local printer, dont serach for my devices and then create a virtual "IP" port
[03:35] <Lathiat> where as on linux i just hit network printer and put the ip in. :)
[03:35] <robertj> Lathiat: That's not really an avahi-level idea is it though?
[03:35] <Nafallo> robertj: that made sence, not ;-).
[03:35] <Amaranth> too bad you have to put the IP in
[03:36] <Lathiat> robertj: nah but i'd be interested :)
[03:36] <Lathiat> i'm interested in getting service discovery stuff as a whole rocking
[03:36] <robertj> Amaranth: but for SMB printers you get a little tree view with icons that show only printers
[03:36] <robertj> Lathiat: which is cool. Another thing worth consdering is hardware advertising
[03:37] <sebest> Lathiat: i used howl, when do you think that avahi will have the same functionnality to replace howl?
[03:37] <Amaranth> you should get a nice combobox of printers with the format "network name (printer model)"
[03:37] <Lathiat> sebest: coming weeks hopefully
[03:37] <Lathiat> assuming i dont fall off the planet
[03:37] <robertj> or I guess more precisely, "LOOK! I'm a gst sink!"
[03:37] <Amaranth> network name is the printer was giving for the network
[03:38] <Lathiat> last time i checked the world was a global so falling off would reqire effort
[03:38] <Lathiat> *globe
[03:38] <robertj> does avahi support any kind of mdns bridging?
[03:38] <Lathiat> robertj: as in bridging between two subnets?
[03:38] <sebest> Lathiat: is the Api available to check, or a little example.c showing how to browse/publish ?
[03:39] <Amaranth> robertj: or "LOOK! I'm a daap share!"
[03:39] <robertj> avahi: imagine you mix this in with galago
[03:39] <`anthony> Bugger, bugger, bugger. Hoary has an old version of hal, so I can't use it to find the audio devices... crap!
[03:39] <sebest> robertj: it could be mixed with evolution
[03:39] <robertj> Whenever you friends come online with GAIM, there fileshares, gst-servers, etc also come online
[03:40] <robertj> sebest: well the idea is to mix it with galago, not so much gnome
[03:40] <sebest> robertj: to publish user presence and vcard
[03:40] <fabbione> `anthony: my little red hair friend.. a release need to happen once in a while.. please complain with upstream. kthxbye
[03:40] <robertj> Lathiat: but yeah, does it support any kind of subnet bridging?
[03:40] <`anthony> fabbione: Yes, I know. It's just annoying. 
[03:40] <Lathiat> robertj: not at the moment, its planned but
[03:41] <Lathiat> robertj: there is a project that does that tho written by davyd and grahame, can be found on angrygoats.net
[03:41] <Nafallo> damn I hate sneezing!
[03:41] <Lathiat> fabbione: 'kthxbai'
[03:41] <ogra> `anthony, http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/utopia/
[03:41] <robertj> Lathiat: a GUI for adveritsing static mDNS "bookmarks" would also be nice
[03:42] <ogra> `anthony, no warranty
[03:42] <pitti> `anthony: the update is a bit rough since dbus does not yet have a clean transition, but in the end it should work
[03:42] <robertj> like we have a university wide dav server here, and it would be good to advertise it
[03:43] <robertj> and there are already tools to do that with howl
[03:43] <robertj> but I don't know about avahi
[03:43] <jdub> robertj: that's where unicast dns-sd comes in
[03:43] <Lathiat> sebest: http://0pointer.de/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/trunk/avahi-core/avahi-test.c?rev=57&root=flexmdns&view=markup
[03:43] <sebest> Lathiat: thanx!
[03:43] <robertj> jdub: what handles that?
[03:45] <`anthony> For now, I'm gonna compile hald from source and run it from a separate location.
[03:45] <`anthony> That way I can get the code working, but not break everything else.
[03:45] <jdub> robertj: howl did, i assume avahi will
[03:46] <pitti> `anthony: that won't work since you also need the newer dbus
[03:46] <Lathiat> avahi will (but not yet)
[03:46] <`anthony> pitti: Bugger.
[03:46] <robertj> Lathiat: is avahi working building on windows and OS X yet?
[03:46] <jdub> robertj: i just advertise stuff on my dns server, and add other dns servers to gnome-vfs's lookup list
[03:46] <pitti> `anthony: and of course you will lose all USB automount magic
[03:46] <Lathiat> robertj: i doubt it
[03:46] <Lathiat> in fact, not at all
[03:46] <Lathiat> it currently relies on netlink
[03:47] <jdub> netlink... delicious evil.
[03:47] <jdub> and with that
[03:47] <jdub> i'm off to bed
[03:47] <jdub> nacht alles!
[03:47] <Lathiat> (which is a linux-specific API for getting interface information)
[03:47] <Lathiat> jdub: :)
[03:47] <`anthony> I guess for now I just get to parse output of aplay -l :-(
[03:47] <Nafallo> jdub: nightie :-)
[03:49] <robertj> Lathiat: hehe, I feel sorry for Tor Lillqvist, "First day on the job: Ok, we need you to port Orbit2, Bonobo, parts of gnomevfs, and a few other things so you can port Evolution"
[03:50] <Nafallo> is there a roadmap for the networkstuff?
[03:50] <Lathiat> robertj: ;)
[03:50] <Lathiat> Nafallo: my stuff?
[03:51] <Nafallo> Lathiat: I was thinking more in terms of NetworkMagic :-)
[03:51] <Lathiat> oh, that stuff
[03:52] <Nafallo> right now I use netapplet :-P
[03:52] <robertj> Lathiat: are you going to be in #ubuntu-meeting monday?
[03:52] <Nafallo> gaah, I'm slow today...
[03:53] <Nafallo> robertj: what was that about again? :-)
[03:54] <Nafallo> rock! my mirror is synced, only took 12h :-P
[03:54] <tseng> do you really need the whole mirrror? thats wasteful
[03:54] <Nafallo> tseng: nope. I only got amd64, i386 and source ;-)
[03:54] <tseng> hm for hoary?
[03:55] <Nafallo> tseng: warty*, hoary*, breezy* :-)
[03:55] <robertj> Nafallo: i'm lookign for the post
[03:55] <tseng> i see.
[03:55] <Nafallo> tseng: only 52GB right now ;-)
[03:56] <Nafallo> robertj: ahh, breezy kick-off? :-)
[03:57] <robertj> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-May/007397.html
[03:57] <robertj> yeah
[03:57] <Nafallo> 21-23 CET, I'll leave early from my french class then :-)
[03:57] <robertj> I'll be at work so I'll be here ;)
[03:57] <Nafallo> robertj: lol :-)
[03:58] <robertj> btw, are partitions in Linux still limited to 2.2tb?
[03:59] <robertj> I'm placing an order for 3 LaCie firewire drives on Monday to give a bump to our departmental file server's storage ;)
[03:59] <Lathiat> robertj: i dont think so....
[04:00] <robertj> WIth out Educational discount 1 TB firewire 800 drives are like 823
[04:00] <Lathiat> what times that breezy kickoff meeting?
[04:00] <robertj> You can buy them a bit cheaper still if you buy refurbished.
[04:00] <tfheen> Lathiat: monday 1900 utc.
[04:00] <Lathiat> so thats uh
[04:00] <Lathiat> 3am tuesday gmt+8 ?
[04:00] <Nafallo> 19-21 UTC
[04:01] <robertj> so if you buy 1000gb at once it's $.007/gig now
[04:02] <Nafallo> Lathiat: should be :-)
[04:04] <robertj> http://www.dxing.com/utcgmt.htm has the table
[04:06] <dholbach> jdub: what do you think of the MOTU list now?
[04:07] <robertj> btw, is evolution fixed in Breezy yet?
[04:07] <dholbach> robertj: works fine for me
[04:08] <ogra> works here
[04:16] <robertj> that's good, I'd moved back to hoary because it was broken and I had a deadline
[04:16] <robertj> but deadline is over so I'm pondernig the move
[04:21] <Lathiat> its still a bit broken
[04:21] <Lathiat> automounting stuff is borked
[04:21] <Nafallo> pitti: ping?
[04:21] <pitti> Nafallo: pong
[04:22] <Nafallo> pitti: on MOTUSecurity it says Universe should have USNs. mistake?
[04:22] <pitti> Nafallo: rather, it should have updates
[04:23] <Nafallo> pitti: oki. there is an approved spec also, saying that we shouldn't care about warty. correct? :-)
[04:23] <pitti> Nafallo: well, we should concentrate on Hoary first, and if there are still resources, we can fix Warty in addition (IMHO)
[04:24] <Nafallo> pitti: oki. so now when we are three people we should clean up hoary and breezy first :-)
[04:27] <Lathiat> '
[04:27] <Lathiat> [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[] 
[04:27] <pitti> ^  ??
[04:27] <Lathiat> ^^ cat
[04:27] <Lathiat> decided to wander over my keyboard
[04:27] <tfheen> hit the same key lots of times for wandering.
[04:27] <ogra> iu88888888888888888888888
[04:27] <Lathiat> i think it stretched halfway accross
[04:28] <pitti> ogra: your dog?
[04:28] <ogra> Lathiat, mine answered ;)
[04:28] <ogra> pitti, i have a cat too
[04:28] <Lathiat> they are speaking code!
[04:28] <ogra> hehe
[04:28] <Lathiat> quick, start a distributed project to deciper it!
[04:28] <pitti> yeah, but another pet for a change... :-)
[04:28] <Nafallo> pitti: I have my rabbit on the keyboard sometimes ;-)
[04:31] <robertj> I wonder if the hotline ever got "ggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhg"
[04:36] <pitti> ogra: cat pulled out your eth cable? :-)
[04:36] <ogra> nope, dbus crashed while i was playing with beagle
[04:37] <ogra> so i had to restart my session
[04:37] <seb128> anybody has an idea of what could make udev not creating /dev/hda[n] ? seems than it wants to use devfs style names. That's for a friend crossgrading from Debian unstable to hoary.
[04:37] <seb128> he has no devfsd installed
[04:37] <ogra> uuuh sid->hoary ? evil
[04:38] <seb128> and /etc/udev/rules.d/udev.rules points on ../udev.rules which seems correct
[04:38] <seb128> why evil?
[04:38] <ogra> sid is newer
[04:38] <seb128> I've said crossgrading
[04:38] <seb128> hoary 1050 for apt-preferences
[04:38] <ogra> hmm
[04:38] <seb128> the system works fine out of udev
[04:39] <ogra> the right kernel ?
[04:39] <seb128> the kernel should not matter
[04:39] <seb128> he has tried with a debian and the hoary one
[04:40] <ogra> is ide-disk loaded ? 
[04:40] <seb128> no idea, the system doesn't boot
[04:40] <ogra> hrm
[04:40] <seb128> since there is no /dev/hdn
[04:40] <seb128> /usr doesn't get mounted
[04:40] <seb128> and without /usr, no boot
[04:41] <seb128> he has chrooted and dpkg -r udev which fixes the issue for the moment
[04:53] <User233> Can anyone provide me the URL for ordering free copies of Ubuntu?
[04:53] <ogra> shipit.ubuntu.com
[04:53] <User233> Thanks.   I actually ordered some disks a few months ago, but they never showed up.
[05:10] <dholbach> bye
[05:15] <dholbach> *wave*
[06:04] <mirak> there is a module called usbvision but he is not in the modules, what to do to make it enter in the modules of ubuntu ?
[06:06] <bob2> is it dfsg-free?
[06:06] <mirak> what does this mean ?
[06:07] <tseng> mirak: free as defined in the debian free software guidelines.
[06:07] <mirak> bob2: ?
[06:07] <mirak> it's on source forge
[06:07] <tseng> that means nothing.
[06:07] <mirak> wait a minute
[06:07] <mirak> usbvision.sourceforge.net
[06:07] <mirak> I guess it's totaly free yes
[06:08] <bob2> gpl
[06:08] <Lathiat> beat me to it
[06:08] <mirak> not good ?
[06:08] <bob2> that's fine
[06:09] <bob2> I guess you file a wishlist or enhancement level bug on the linux-source package on bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[06:09] <mirak> ok
[06:09] <mirak> should I ask on debian first ?
[06:09] <tseng> bbl
[06:10] <mirak> I mean if it's on debian it should be on ubuntu isn't it ?
[06:10] <bob2> no
[06:10] <bob2> presumably you want it added to the default ubuntu kernel 
[06:10] <bob2> if it's in debian, then it would just happen to be in ubuntu, too, where you'd have to compile it yourself
[06:11] <mirak> bob2: why ?
[06:11] <mirak> would I have to compile it myself
[06:11] <mirak> because it would be as package ok
[06:11] <mirak> but why can't they put it also in the kernel ?
[06:11] <Lathiat> mirak: the ubuntu kernels are differentto debian ones and maintained by the ubuntu kernel team
[06:11] <bob2> that's not how it works, sorry
[06:12] <Lathiat> mirak: if you wish these drivers to be included in the default ubuntu kernel, you will need to file a wishlist bug in ubuntus bugzilla against linux-source
[06:12] <mirak> I guess ubuntu would more reactive
[06:12] <mirak> Lathiat: thanks, bob2 said it
[06:12] <bob2> no, it's not about being reactive
[06:12] <mirak> I should ask on debian why they give it separately
[06:12] <mirak> I am curious
[06:12] <bob2> the debian kernel team don't add hardware support to their kernels
[06:12] <mirak> I don't know the internals
[06:13] <bob2> they encourage you to get upstream (ie linus) to include it
[06:13] <bob2> so everyone benfits
[06:13] <mirak> ah
[06:13] <mirak> so I should ask linux
[06:13] <mirak> linus
[06:13] <mirak> lol
[06:13] <mirak> ;)
[06:13] <bob2> well
[06:13] <bob2> you should ask the developers of 'usbvision' why it's not in the upstream kernel yeat
[06:14] <mirak> ok, maybe it's not mature enough 
[06:14] <mirak> it's a a part of linux that is a bit anoying
[06:15] <bob2> well
[06:15] <mirak> vendors would support maybe more the hardware
[06:15] <mirak> with closed source drivers of course
[06:15] <bob2> its a problem with driver authors not writing good enough code, usually
[06:15] <mirak> the problem is more that they don't relase it open source
[06:15] <mirak> mmm not really
[06:15] <mirak> in fact since it can be linked
[06:16] <Lathiat> i think you got halfway confused with two issues
[06:16] <Lathiat> i think bob2 meant about usbvision not being upstream
[06:16] <mirak> and me ?
[06:16] <Lathiat> generally its because they are either not the right license, not willing to get it upstream, write bad code or use methods that linux disapproves of 
[06:16] <bob2> right
[06:17] <Lathiat> and yes the issue with binary drivers is closed sourceness and licensing
[06:17] <mirak> yes but they volunteer
[06:17] <mirak> and anybody not happy can change the code
[06:17] <bob2> sure
[06:17] <bob2> including you ;)
[06:17] <mirak> yes
[06:18] <mirak> lol
[06:18] <mirak> but that's really to much work
[06:18] <mirak> I really don't want to spent to much time coding outside of the job
[06:18] <bob2> so, first step, ask the authors why it's not in the upstream kernel
[06:18] <mirak> I don't know how they can code like that
[06:18] <mirak> yep
[06:21] <mirak> I think a media live cd use it
[06:21] <mirak> I have downloaded it
[06:21] <mirak> I will test it soon when I will burn it
[07:55] <thully> hi - in the RestrictedFormats wiki, should the instructions which pertain to Warty be deprecated/removed soon?  It's hard to maintain working multimedia instructions (beyond what's in Universe) for Warty
[07:56] <thully> Part of this is that I'm going to remove Marillat from that wiki, and replace it with the much-better Ubuntu Backports repo - which has what is needed from marillat for Hoary
[07:56] <tseng> uh
[07:57] <tseng> id prefer that we dont promote sites like that on our wiki
[07:58] <thully> Well, the multimedia stuff is only in hoary-extras-staging over at backports currently, but it is all going into hoary-extras tomorrow
[07:58] <tseng> oh great so you are going to have them add the entire repo and dist-upgrade?
[07:58] <thully> Well, I'm actually only going to use their "hoary-extras" repo (which adds packages to Hoary) and not their "hoary-backports" repo (which upgrades packages)
[07:59] <tseng> still not a fan
[07:59] <thully> Think of hoary-extras as kind of similar to marillat, except for Ubuntu
[07:59] <tseng> except not by a debian maintainer
[07:59] <thully> Marillat is MUCH worse than hoary-extras, as the packages are designed for sid and break on Hoary (you need breezy to use them)
[08:00] <Lathiat> the testing packages probably work
[08:00] <tseng> we are defining quality in a different way I guess
[08:00] <thully> The gstreamer-* plugins for AAC decode/encode and LAME aren't in marillat testing
[08:00] <Nafallo> what packages does marillat have that universe and multiverse don't have?
[08:00] <tseng> id like to see the source for those
[08:00] <tseng> btw
[08:01] <Nafallo> btw
[08:01] <Nafallo> MOTU's care for multiverse to? or who does?
[08:01] <tseng> thully: do you have the original aac sources before they start adding ~ to the version string and various other crackful backports things?
[08:01] <Lathiat> Nafallo: yes, motu?
[08:02] <Lathiat> no ? mark
[08:02] <thully> they're in marillat - but the point is that they can't be added to Hoary now that it's released
[08:02] <tseng> hoary is released, yes, end of story
[08:02] <thully> And Marillat has been broken for these packages for a week - meaning nobody can rip  MP3 using sound juicer or listen to AACs in rhythmbox
[08:02] <tseng> id like to see them for breezy please
[08:02] <tseng> un-backport-crackified
[08:03] <thully> These are already in UniverseCandidates for Breezy
[08:03] <Nafallo> ehm. why do people always complain about missing stuff _after_ release?
[08:03] <thully> I mentioned this a few months before
[08:03] <tseng> Nafallo: he complained about it before, but I didnt appreciate his attitude at the time
[08:03] <thully> and the marillat package was working at the time.....
[08:03] <tseng> ill look on universecandidates, thanks
[08:04] <thully> what should be done about this for Hoary - having a RestrictedFormats wiki which has non-working instructions isn't good
[08:04] <tseng> hey dude i dont see a link
[08:05] <cartman> gcc-4.0_4.0.0-5ubuntu1_20050507-1638-amd64-successful <--- YAY :)
[08:05] <thully> yes - the source to the gstreamer stuff is actually all in Hoary - use what you use to build the other plugins...
[08:05] <Nafallo> thanks cartman :-). I'll update my pbuilder then ;-)
[08:05] <tseng> oh so we are back to that
[08:06] <thully> The source for gst plugins is all in one file, in other words
[08:06] <tseng> thully: it needs to be an entirely new package
[08:06] <cartman> Nafallo: the long waited gcc update for me :)
[08:06] <tseng> libfaac/faad are in multiverse
[08:06] <cartman> hope its version number is 4.0.1
[08:06] <tseng> we cant have gst-plugins in main building with libs from multiverse
[08:07] <thully> They all build into separate debs - so can't they be built together and then separated?
[08:07] <tseng> no
[08:07] <tseng> it has to have two source packages
[08:07] <tseng> dbus-mono is an example of this
[08:08] <thully> OK - well, I don't know how to split the source - maybe somebody could take a look
[08:08] <thully> Also, somebody could just do two builds of the same source - one with the gstreamer plugins formain, one for universe, and one for multiverse
[08:08] <tseng> thats what im saying
[08:08] <tseng> but they need different names
[08:09] <tseng> gst-plugins-multiverse say
[08:09] <thully> I wonder how gstreamer0.8-mad is packaged - as that's in universe
[08:09] <tseng> good question
[08:09] <thully> these probably should be done the same way
[08:09] <Nafallo> tseng: didn't you talk about that today or yesterday?
[08:09] <tseng> Nafallo: yes
[08:10] <tseng> it says -mad is from gst-plugins0.8 in main
[08:10] <tseng> wth
[08:10] <thully> So - OK - I'm more concerned about what should be done with the RestrictedFormats wiki - marillat has packages which break on Hoary, and that needs to be dealt with
[08:11] <thully> It seems the best way would be to use hoary-extras from backports - they are based on the Marillat source, but actually work on hoary...
[08:11] <Nafallo> thully: exactly which packages are we talking about? just the gst* stuff?
[08:12] <tseng> maybe libdvdcss or w32codecs he means?
[08:12] <thully> yes - plus gtkpod-aac (for iPods)
[08:12] <Nafallo> tseng: isn't w32codecs in multiverse?
[08:12] <thully> no
[08:12] <tseng> Nafallo: buh!
[08:12] <tseng> that would be a nightmare
[08:12] <Nafallo> hehe, well. I run amd64 ;-)
[08:13] <tseng> w32codecs = dlls ripped straight from a windows pc
[08:13] <tseng> its soo illegal
[08:13] <Nafallo> tseng: hehe. oki :-). only mplayerhq has the right to have them then ;-)
[08:13] <Nafallo> and marillat :-P
[08:13] <Lathiat> Nafallo: You misunderstand
[08:13] <Lathiat> they a) are in random countries where these laws don't apply and could b) be breaking the law
[08:14] <Lathiat> alot of people just disregard legality
[08:14] <Nafallo> Lathiat: ahh, oki. the serverplacement issue again :/.
[08:14] <cartman> Nafallo: there are no legal issues in hungary
[08:14] <cartman> Nafallo: and mplayer is hosted @ hungary
[08:14] <Lathiat> i mean, in australia, its illegal to convert your CD into digital form, so ripping my legally purcahsed cd and placing it on an ipod is illegal.
[08:15] <Nafallo> cartman: yepp, oki.
[08:15] <thully> OK - does anyone have any viable alternatives to directing people to hoary-extras from Ubuntu backports for gstreamer* stuff + gtkpod-aac
[08:15] <tseng> how should we do gtkpod-aac in breezy
[08:16] <tseng> if we statically link it is it still illegalish?
[08:16] <thully> build a separate package against libmp4 and put it in multiverse
[08:16] <tseng> id rather not have 2 packages of the same thing if it can have a better solution
[08:17] <thully> I guess libmp4 isn't in multiverse - but I wonder what it actually does (since libfaad is in there)
[08:17] <Lathiat> man, so tired, 2:17am and work to finish for tomorrow, blah
[08:17] <Lathiat> php is bad for the soul
[08:17] <thully> However, it is required for AAC in gtkpod
[08:17] <tseng> libfaad is libmp4
[08:17] <tseng>  /usr/lib/libmp4ff.so
[08:18] <thully> OK - I know everybody's interested in what should be done for Breezy - but In my mind the bigger question is - what to do with the restrictedformats wiki?  
[08:19] <tseng> its a wiki, you can do whatever you want
[08:19] <tseng> this channel is about development, breezy
[08:19] <thully> I brought this up in #ubuntu, and someone directed me here
[08:19] <Lathiat> tseng: how goes the beagle love?
[08:20] <tseng> Lathiat: its in new
[08:20] <ogra> unstable here
[08:20] <Lathiat> tseng: scweeeet
[08:20] <tseng> ogra: its LOVE
[08:20] <ogra> heh
[08:20] <ogra> yeah
[08:20] <Lathiat> now i just need inotify
[08:20] <thully> OK - I guess I'll put hoary-extras in that wiki - better than broken packages and tons of apt pinning
[08:20] <Lathiat> should build a 2.6.12 
[08:20] <Nafallo> thully: for libdvdcss, tell people to run /usr/share/doc/libdvdread3/examples/install-css.sh
[08:20] <Lathiat> the inotify in 2.6.10 does bad things on my machine
[08:20] <Lathiat> and the prebuilt 2.6.12 i got doesnt have headers so i'll have to build one
[08:20] <tseng> the next kernel will have sane inotify
[08:20] <thully> libdvdcss is in hoary-extras...
[08:20] <Lathiat> tseng: yeh it does, works nice here.
[08:21] <ogra> thully, is it really necessary to promote backports
[08:21] <Lathiat> thully: thats illegal too
[08:21] <Lathiat> thully: at least, here, and in the U.S.A.
[08:21] <ogra> thtas quite ugly...
[08:21] <Lathiat> here being australia
[08:21] <Lathiat> actually, it might not be illegal yet, but it will be soon
[08:21] <Lathiat> stupid fucking free trade agreement and its DMCA shit

[08:21] <Lathiat> *mode
[08:22] <tseng> dmca is abused
[08:22] <Lathiat> yuhuh
[08:22] <Nafallo> but if they build the stuff themselves we haven't given them the package. they should sue the user, or am I misunderstanding?
[08:22] <Lathiat> thank god the courts ruled the FCC cant bring in that stupid broadcast bit
[08:22] <Lathiat> Nafallo: the source is illegal
[08:22] <Lathiat> Nafallo: its a copyright circumvention device
[08:22] <Lathiat> (well, so they claim)
[08:23] <tseng> im not sure thats been proven
[08:23] <tseng> but its a sticky trap we dont want to get into
[08:23] <Nafallo> Lathiat: so we can get sued for it?
[08:23] <Lathiat> well
[08:23] <tseng> Nafallo: potentially.
[08:23] <Lathiat> they arrested that dude when he flew into the US for a conference
[08:23] <Lathiat> so im not going there....
[08:23] <Nafallo> that file is installed by ubuntu-desktop I believe ;-)
[08:23] <wasabi> dvdcss is illegal.
[08:23] <thully> It seems like 95% of the time you want to play multimedia on Linux, some legal issue comes up...
[08:23] <wasabi> distributing it, etc.
[08:23] <wasabi> in the US
[08:23] <tseng> Nafallo: dvdcss? not at all
[08:23] <Nafallo> s/file/script/
[08:24] <Lathiat> thully: its true, its called software patents, they suck
[08:24] <Nafallo> tseng: the script to build a package and install libdvdcss yes...
[08:24] <Lathiat> altho multimedia is a little bigger than just software patents
[08:24] <tseng> Nafallo: huh?
[08:24] <Nafallo> tseng: it's in the docs of libdvdread3
[08:24] <tseng> oh
[08:24] <Lathiat> i dont think a reference is illegal
[08:24] <Lathiat> because it might well be legal where you live
[08:25] <Nafallo> hehe, probably. the file is grabbed from a swedish university server ;-)
[08:25] <tseng> it sure is
[08:25] <Lathiat> tseng: it is illegal?
[08:25] <tseng> no, the script is installed
[08:25] <tseng> gentoo leans heavily on the build-from-source loophole
[08:25] <Lathiat> heh yeh
[08:26] <tseng> they have unencumber xine and mplayer
[08:26] <tseng> +ed
[08:26] <wasabi> what copyright ?
[08:27] <wasabi> err, what copyright loophole?
[08:27] <Nafallo> I'm sure that script can be legally distribed. debian does it ;-).
[08:27] <Lathiat> ebuilds can pull the source to something
[08:27] <Lathiat> and build it
[08:27] <Lathiat> so the ebuild is legal
[08:27] <wasabi> which script
[08:27] <tseng> wasabi: gentoo doesnt technically distribute anything but shell scripts
[08:27] <Lathiat> and pulling and compiling the source may be legal
[08:27] <Lathiat> and poeple will do it anyway
[08:27] <wasabi> You all forget that 2600.com was barred from LINKING TO the source of decss.
[08:27] <tseng> well, it might be legal to distribute the script
[08:27] <wasabi> And that was UPHELD
[08:28] <Lathiat> i hear you can buy it on a t-shirt. :)
[08:28] <Lathiat> the whole decss thing is stupid anyway
[08:28] <wasabi> there is a difference between "technically illegal" and "i will get arrested for it"
[08:28] <Lathiat> digital solutions to rip dvds existed long before
[08:29] <Lathiat> its not like it brought anything new other than the ability to playa legal dvd on my legal dvd rom drive on my legal fucking laptop. law is ass.
[08:29] <`anthony> wasabi: besides, it's jdub and mdz who go to jail, not us plebs.
[08:29] <Nafallo> well, can we just have one less package to think about then ;-)
[08:30] <Lathiat> be nice if fluendo get their dvd thing out
[08:30] <Lathiat> i wonder if it will be a binary gstreamer plugin
[08:30] <Nafallo> `anthony: hehe. and in debian it's who? ;-)
[08:30] <Lathiat> welcome to the grey area
[08:31] <Nafallo> hehe
[08:31] <Lathiat> in part you could claim the maintainer
[08:31] <Lathiat> but then yo ucould say
[08:31] <Lathiat> all the mirror maintainers who host a copy...
[08:32] <wasabi> that's why debian has non-us
[08:32] <Lathiat> yurp
[08:32] <Lathiat> i think that has screw all in it now tho
[08:32] <Lathiat> most of the crypto stuff got sorted
[08:34] <Nafallo> *sigh* politicans that aren't hackers shouldn't vote in those law questions :-P.
[08:35] <Lathiat> bush didn't hack gstreamer last check
[08:35] <Lathiat> unfortunately
[08:37] <Nafallo> so... have we answered any questions about the question that made this discussion happen? :-)
[08:38] <Nafallo> hmm, that's a meta-statement :-P
[08:39] <thully> so - should decss info be replaced with a reference to the shell script that builds it from source?
[08:40] <thully> Also, should all the Warty info be removed (half the plugins don't work in Warty, and doing any more than MP3 playback on Warty would probably be a disaster at this point)
[08:40] <thully> from RestrictedFormats
[08:42] <Burgundavia> thully, your wiki to, I wouldn't remove it, just mention it
[08:45] <thully> All the half-broken Warty info makes the Hoary info more confusing
[08:46] <thully> What should be done about w32codecs - that is a questionable package as well... (maybe more so tha decss)
[08:46] <Treenaks> at least copyright-wise
[08:46] <tseng> its not questionable at all
[08:46] <tseng> its straight illegal
[08:47] <Nafallo> if amd64 can do without them, so can i386
[08:47] <mjg59> There's no permission to redistribute those files at all
[08:47] <Nafallo> ppl can jump though hoops and get it from mplayerhq if need to, but that's not something we should mention :-)
[08:47] <thully> OK - take it off...
[08:49] <thully> I'm doing that right now as I clean up this wiki...
[08:50] <thully> BTW: mjg59 - have you had a further look at the ThinkPad suspend issues with Radeon cards?
[08:50] <Nafallo> hmm, why do we want soundjuicer to rip mp3? which are the main reasons? mp3-players?
[08:51] <thully> yes - I mean, only about 10% of devices out there play OGG, so OGG is useless for most
[08:52] <Nafallo> thully: how many play MPEG-1 layer 2?
[08:52] <thully> hm?  do you mean .mp2?
[08:52] <thully> why - is .mp2 format non-patent-encumbered?
[08:52] <Nafallo> thully: mais oui.
[08:53] <thully> ?
[08:53] <Nafallo> thully: I don't think so. toolame is in universe and debian main.
[08:54] <Nafallo> would be nice to hook that into gstreamer and let people rip mp2.
[08:55] <thully> If .mp2 is non-encumbered, maybe I'll try it on my iPod mini - since if it is unencumbered and works on iPods we should make that the default ripping format on breezy (or at least make it simple to use)
[08:55] <Nafallo> thully: the default should be ogg, mp2 should be an option.
[08:55] <tseng> so, lets promote lame stale codecs
[08:55] <tseng> rock on.
[08:56] <mjg59> mp2 is dreadful, in terms of quality
[08:56] <thully> Is it a ton worse than MP3?
[08:56] <tseng> yes
[08:56] <ogra> yep
[08:56] <Nafallo> mjg59: they should have bought ogg-players ;-)
[08:57] <Lathiat> encode in wave format!
[08:57] <thully> There aren't a whole lot of ogg players  - especially in the form factor of the iPod mini...
[08:58] <ogra> Lathiat, punched tape !
[08:58] <mjg59> Sucks. Not something we can do much about.
[08:58] <Lathiat> ogra: like punch cards?
[08:58] <ogra> yeah
[08:58] <Lathiat> :)
[08:58] <ogra> Lathiat, the one thats in mechanical pianos
[08:58] <Lathiat> why dont you just carry your own personal band/orchestra around in your back pack
[08:58] <Lathiat> do it the old fassioned way
[08:59] <Nafallo> we could tell people to download the mp3 they want *jokes*
[08:59] <ogra> yeah, that generates a lot of jobs !
[09:02] <Nafallo> hmm
[09:03] <Nafallo> we might be able to bring some packages in through hoary-updates for the aac stuff?
[09:03] <Lathiat> a
[09:04] <Lathiat> Nafallo: hoary-updates is for important updates and calendar
[09:05] <Nafallo> true. we should make breezy rock instead :-).
[09:06] <thully> OK - I think I'm wiping all the warty info from RestrictedFormats (makes maintenance easier) and I may put it in a new, "WartyRestrictedFormats", soon.
[09:14] <thully> I'm in the process of making the changes - the Hoary-extras repo won't work until tomorrow, however (but the marillat repo in there before didn't work anyway)
[09:16] <Burgundavia> thully, hoary-extras?
[09:17] <thully> yes - marillat is broken...
[09:18] <ogra> Burgundavia, he wants to advertise the backports repos instead of marillat :/
[09:18] <Burgundavia> oh
[09:18] <Burgundavia> trading crack for crack
[09:18] <Burgundavia> hmm
[09:18] <thully> well, what's the point in using broken repos?  I was fine with marillat until it broke on Hoary
[09:18] <ogra> trading crack for bad crack
[09:19] <thully> Well, marillat isn't an option anymore with their recent breakage...
[09:19] <ogra> thully, broke in what way ? mplayer and friends are fine in multiverse, you nly need marillat for decss and w32codecs
[09:19] <thully> and it is breakage that can't be resolved - building against sid packages not in Hoary
[09:19] <Nafallo> ogra: not decss
[09:20] <thully> gstreamer-* plugins are needed for quite a few things...
[09:20] <thully> and the ones I want are broken on marillat by depending on a new glibc
[09:21] <thully> Hoary-extras seems to work a lot better - no pinning necessary, and you don't have to replace Hoary's libfaad with Marillat's
[09:21] <ogra> thully, will you go out and fix all the broken packaging systems of backport users ? 
[09:21] <thully> This is a lot different from hoary-backports - this simply adds packages to Hoary, while hoary-backports upgrades packages already in Hoary
[09:21] <svenl> Mmm, anyone knows why /dev/raw1394 is set to root.video mode 600, while /dev/video1394/0 is root.video mode 660 ?
[09:21] <ogra> who is "this" ?
[09:22] <thully> Nothing in hoary-extras is in main,restricted,universe,or multiverse
[09:22] <svenl> It sure does stop gnomemeeting from working with firewire webcams and DV cameras.
[09:22] <thully> this=hoary-extras from Ubuntu backports
[09:22] <ogra> who made them ?
[09:22] <thully> The Ubuntu backports team over at ubuntuforums
[09:23] <ogra> so they are not better packaged then the other backports
[09:23] <Burgundavia> ogra, http://backports.ubuntuforums.org/backports/dists/hoary-extras/restricted/binary-i386/
[09:23] <Burgundavia> w32, dvd and jre
[09:23] <thully> Most of these are simply rebuilds of marillat packages without bad deps
[09:24] <thully> they don't have to install java from there...
[09:25] <ogra> if they have it in their sources.list and the version number is broken as usual...
[09:25] <thully> OK - if you don't like that repo, suggest a better alternative...
[09:26] <ogra> marillat... use older packages from there...
[09:27] <ogra> at least these are known to be packaged in a sane manner...
[09:27] <Burgundavia> ogra, even more crack inbound http://backports.ubuntuforums.org/backports/dists/hoary-extras-staging/restricted/binary-i386/
[09:28] <Nafallo> do we /have/ to have packages for w32codecs?
[09:28] <ogra> Nafallo, not at all
[09:28] <thully> I think it's nota good idea to point people to umpteen different links to old packages on FTP servers that may break at any second...
[09:28] <trulux> Nafallo: I guess it's because the license stuff
[09:28] <Nafallo> users could follow commands to get them from mplayerhq.hu if needed to.
[09:29] <trulux> Nafallo: well, they have packages somwhere, I can't remember right now
[09:29] <ogra> thully, and i think its not a good idea to point users to repos that break their packaging system and upgradeability
[09:29] <trulux> btw, anyone here could point me to a HOWTO or reference for gnome applets development using python (or C, doesn't matter really)?
[09:30] <Nafallo> trulux: mplayerhq?
[09:30] <trulux> Nafallo: win32codecs
[09:30] <ogra> trulux, an applet to hotswitch kernels ? :-P
[09:30] <Lathiat> trulux: umm, no idea about docs, but angrygoats.net in svn has an applet called 'interapplet' (network interface cahanging applet) that uses python, might be a good example
[09:30] <thully> OK - I didn't think hoary-extras would break anything the way hoary-backports might (since it only provides stuff not in Hoary)
[09:30] <Nafallo> hehe, the frontpage was fun ;-)
[09:31] <trulux> ogra: hah, no, SELinux enabling/disabling, to control the things that tseng commented/suggested on UDU and so on
[09:31] <Burgundavia> thully, hoary-extras shouldn't
[09:31] <trulux> Lathiat: danke sehr
[09:31] <trulux> ogra: well, hot switching of kernels is not that tested but currenty is possible, just you need to have cold blood
[09:31] <trulux> or be a brave soul
[09:31] <ogra> heh
[09:32] <ogra> or be the master of xul 
[09:32] <trulux> (or a suicide, kamikaze, that kind of things)
[09:32] <trulux> haha
[09:32] <Nafallo> trulux: nope, know .deb for w32 on mplayerhq.hu as far as I can see.
[09:32] <Nafallo> s/know/no/ ;-)
[09:32] <trulux> well, I need also to upload the spec for Ubuntu Hardened, due the problems I had with my devel box I had to move to the laptop
[09:33] <trulux> and I'm still fixing, setting working on general things
[09:33] <Nafallo> how the hell did that happen :-P
[09:33] <Burgundavia> gstreamer .9 is going to include a w32codecs-like functionality
[09:33] <trulux> well, my CRT screen got fscked up, almost exploded...
[09:33] <trulux> at least I could access the box for a few minutes to burn some backups
[09:34] <trulux> Nafallo: no, .debs of win32codecs in other place, I can't remember, it's a well known unofficial repo
[09:35] <Lathiat> tru	woops
[09:35] <Lathiat> trulux: rather
[09:35] <trulux> Burgundavia: ouch
[09:35] <Nafallo> trulux: marillat. however, it seems the issue is that marillat don't work with hoary as thully says...
[09:35] <trulux> Lathiat: I'm checking the applet
[09:35] <trulux> Nafallo: It did for me
[09:35] <Lathiat> trulux: cool
[09:35] <trulux> won't take too much time to finish
[09:36] <Burgundavia> 2.6.12-rc4 is out
[09:36] <trulux> Burgundavia: far away from 2.6.12 then
[09:36] <trulux> :(
[09:36] <Nafallo> trulux: and I'm for telling people to download from mplayerhq and unpack themselves if they really need it instead of any other repos :-).
[09:36] <trulux> Nafallo: hah, let them learn ;)
[09:37] <Nafallo> trulux: exactly. the issue with libdvdcss is covered in libdvdread3's doc/examples dir.
[09:37] <trulux> ;)
[09:38] <Nafallo> two less packages to do something about right of a sudden :-)
[09:38] <trulux> I have NFC on why I spent almost half a day making the kernel doing weird stuff to recognize the USB mouse and not fsck my udev schema, and I'm still using the touchpad ;(
[09:38] <trulux> oh, 'cos I have the ice-cream on the other hand
[09:38] <trulux> ;P
[09:38] <Lathiat> haha
[09:39] <Nafallo> hehe
[09:40] <Nafallo> lol
[09:40] <trulux> avc: denied { steal } for pid=12345 exe=/home/lorenzo/ice-cream
[09:41] <trulux> scontext=lorenzo:pleasing_r:eating_icecream
[09:41] <trulux> after I've bene skimming on the package files relabeling for SELinux in Gentoo, I need to talk to...
[09:41] <trulux> ajmitch_: ping :)
[09:47] <trulux> btw, for Ubuntu I have another thing that might rock, a hack to the cpufreq applet to change from each governor to another
[09:48] <Nafallo> trulux: is there a meaning with that when you have powernowd as a backend? :-)
[09:48] <trulux> Nafallo: the meaning is my own fun and training ;)
[09:48] <Nafallo> trulux: ooh, I see :-).
[09:49] <trulux> among that I'm using Gentoo with a very few things installed
[09:49] <trulux> and too much tweak ;)
[09:50] <Nafallo> gentoo will never touch my computers again :-)
[09:50] <trulux> Nafallo: why? too complex for you?
[09:51] <Nafallo> trulux: hehe, rather I don't like to compile my security updates. I want to install them :-).
[09:51] <Nafallo> trulux: besides that, debian (and derivates) is my home ;-).
[09:54] <trulux> Nafallo: I had to stay in front of the laptop while updating more than 200 ebuilds
[09:54] <trulux> Nafallo: just to see if the new USE flags were correctly set and so on
[09:55] <Nafallo> trulux: annoying :-P
[09:55] <trulux> a bit :)
[09:55] <trulux> openoffice still doesn't compile, need to fle a bug for it
[09:55] <Nafallo> trulux: or apt-get install it ;-)
[09:57] <trulux> dunruin lorenzo # apt-get install openoffice
[09:57] <trulux> Use the box in the room near this one, moron!
[09:57] <trulux> (Signed, the Gentoo wocked cow)
[09:57] <trulux> dunruin lorenzo #
[09:58] <Nafallo> hehe
[09:58] <Nafallo> 3 x ubuntu hoary here :-)
[09:59] <trulux> here, 1 x Hoary, 1 x Breezy, 1 x Gentoo with SELinux 2005.0 profile + Hardened profile bits
[10:00] <Lathiat> 1x breezy here
[10:00] <trulux> Lathiat: anything broken right now? :)
[10:00] <Lathiat> well, and 4 hoary vms for routing simulations with quagga but i dont think they count. :)
[10:00] <Lathiat> trulux: plenty
[10:00] <Nafallo> I run breezy on my chroots and pbuilder :-)
[10:00] <trulux> lamont: nice
[10:00] <Lathiat> blam is fixed but !
[10:00] <Lathiat> usb automounting is stil broke
[10:00] <Lathiat> and i get some keymap error on boot
[10:00] <tseng> Lathiat: modprobe sd-mod
[10:00] <Lathiat> mono and evolution were fixed
[10:01] <trulux> Nafallo: Hardened Debian started in Debian chrooted environments... no joke
[10:01] <Lathiat> tseng: oh yeh i did that, but it still doesnt auto mount (but at leasti can mount it myself)
[10:01] <Lathiat> and the gcc-4 stuff screws a few things
[10:01] <Lathiat> like compiling kernel modules
[10:01] <Nafallo> trulux: :-)
[10:01] <tseng> hm because the kernel is built with 3.4?
[10:01] <Lathiat> tseng: 3.3, but yeh
[10:02] <tseng> yeah
[10:02] <Lathiat> thatl be fixed when the new magic kernel goes in
[10:02] <tseng> yes.
[10:02] <Lathiat> which i was running a build of and works nice
[10:02] <Lathiat> except i have no headers package for it 
[10:02] <Nafallo> hehe, magic kernel for the magicalforest ;-)
[10:02] <Lathiat> so i cant run vmware
[10:02] <tseng> i only run vmware in windows
[10:03] <Lathiat> i use it on linux to simulate some routing stuff for my network course
[10:03] <Lathiat> cus you can set bandwidth and packet loss on virtual lan segments, totally rocks
[10:03] <Lathiat> so i have 4 cut down hoary vms with quagga
[10:03] <Lathiat> uses about 40% cpu idling tho :\
[10:03] <Lathiat> of my 2ghz pentium-m
[10:05] <trulux> Lathiat: well, my laptop is 3.07GHz
[10:06] <Lathiat> and i have 5 hours of battery life. :)
[10:06] <Nafallo> baah
[10:06] <trulux> Lathiat: put userspace governor and turn it into a lovely old-times-like 383Mhz machine
[10:07] <Lathiat> it only goese down to 600
[10:07] <Lathiat> but!
[10:07] <Nafallo> 1 hour battery max for me :-P
[10:07] <Lathiat> if i then use acpi scaling on top
[10:07] <trulux> you will be able to (almost) play ping-pong
[10:07] <Lathiat> i can get it down to 75mhz
[10:07] <Lathiat> last time i did that it took me about 5 minutes to get it ack up to 600mhz because i couldnt get much responsiveness to set it back up :)
[10:07] <Lathiat> (i was running gnome at the time. :)
[10:08] <Lathiat> tseng: mmm, new tomboy is much faster, woot.
[10:10] <Nafallo> Lathiat: sleep: to few arguments
[10:32] <trulux> any Python hacker able to give some advice to someone who has been out of the Ptyhon business for too many time?