[08:16] <mako> dholbach: dude
[08:16] <mako> dholbach: too fast
[07:20] <^rob> meeting starts here in 40 minutes right?
[07:20] <dholbach> 1h40m
[07:20] <hunger> no idea...
[07:21] <^rob> ahh
[07:21] <^rob> oky, thx
[07:22] <Riddell> 19:00, 40 minutes
[07:23] <fabbione> 1 hour and 40 minutes
[07:23] <fabbione> 19:00 UTC
[07:23] <fabbione> we are +2 in EU
[07:23] <Riddell> oh wait, UK isn't on GMT just now, oops
[07:33] <Kamion> (let's be clear)
[07:34] <dholbach> Kamion: :-)
[07:35] <^rob> Riddell: it should be NEITHER instead of NOT
[07:36] <Kamion> "NOT ..., nor ..." is fine
[07:37] <Kamion> "NEITHER ... nor ..." (no comma) would also be fine
[07:38] <^rob> Kamion: is that requirement of neitehr with nor an American specific thing?
[07:39] <Kamion> I don't know. This is the first time I've heard it claimed anywhere.
[07:40] <Kamion> the two sentences have different emphases
[07:41] <Kamion> not/nor emphasises the first, and the second is basically a parenthetical comment
[07:41] <Kamion> neither/nor puts the two on equal footing
[07:41] <^rob> Kamion: I lean torward "not #ubuntu OR #ubuntu-devel"
[07:42] <Kamion> that sounds actively wrong to me
[07:42] <Kamion> "neither #ubuntu NOR #ubuntu-devel"
[07:44] <Kamion> this is a startlingly OT conversation though ;)
[07:44] <thegreedyturtle> OT?
[07:45] <jbailey> How can it be off topic when it's about the /topic?
[07:45] <thegreedyturtle> ah
[07:45] <Seveas> lol
[08:12] <hunger> ^rob: How about: !(#ubuntu-devel || #ubuntu)
[08:12] <thom> hunger: meaningless to most users
[08:12] <hunger> ^rob: not #ubuntu-devel or #ubuntu looks wrong;-)
[08:12] <hunger> thom: Right:-)
[08:14] <hunger> thom: But (not x or y) != not x or y. Well, I am probably too CS-ly for this world.
[08:14] <nufan> Has the meeting got underway yet?
[08:14] <fabbione> in 45 minutes
[08:15] <nufan> UTC == GMT?
[08:15] <thom> nufan: yes
[08:15] <nufan> Ta
[08:15] <fabbione> nufan: more or less yes
[08:15] <thom> (without pedanting, anyway)
[08:15] <hunger> nufan: GMT is UTC but with daylight saving or the other way round.
[08:16] <nufan> Wait, so 19:00 UTC is 20:00 GMT?
[08:16] <fabbione> no
[08:16] <fabbione> GMT = UTC
[08:17] <nufan> (I'm an idiot
[08:17] <fabbione> there is no daylight saving
[08:17] <hunger> fabbione: Are you sure?
[08:17] <thom> hunger: yes
[08:17] <fabbione> the difference goes at astronomic level
[08:17] <fabbione> yes
[08:17] <thom> the difference is between atomic and astronomical time iirc
[08:18] <hunger> thom: I made that claim the last time... and everybody told me that was wrong.
[08:19] <Kamion> how bizarre. fabbione and thom are correct, anyway.
[08:19] <hunger> thom: Looks like I normally hang out with idiots;-)
[08:19] <nufan> So... the meeting is an hour late
[08:20] <jbailey> When in doubt, right click your gnome clock, go to preferences, and set "Use UTC" =)
[08:20] <nufan> 'cos it's 1900 GMT here.
[08:20] <thom> nufan: no, it's 1820GMT
[08:20] <thom> 19:20 ~/work/packages/hoary% date -u
[08:20] <thom> Mon May  9 18:20:19 UTC 2005
[08:20] <Riddell> nufan: you are more likely to be on BST
[08:20] <nufan> I'm in England
[08:20] <Kamion> nufan: then you are on BST, not GMT
[08:20] <nufan> Whatever the hell that means for the time.
[08:20] <thom> the UK is gmt/utc +1
[08:21] <thom> currently
[08:21] <jbailey> Is Greenwich even on GMT? =)
[08:21] <Kamion> jbailey: nope
[08:21] <nufan> That makes no sense.
[08:21] <thom> jbailey: at the moment, no :-)
[08:21] <jbailey> Sweet. =)
[08:21] <Kamion> nufan: surely you must have heard of summer time
[08:21] <thom> nufan: during the winter, it is. during the summer, we do daylight savings and go forward an hour
[08:21] <hunger> Arg! Somebody should build a flat planet!
[08:21] <nufan> Us brits invented time, so we can do whatever the hell we like with it :P
[08:21] <Riddell> we get so spoilt at being in sync with GMT for half the year we forget we're out of sync the rest of the time
[08:22] <Riddell> nufan: acutally it was a Scottish Canadian man
[08:22] <nufan> I know about DST
[08:22] <nufan> But I assumed britan was on GMT
[08:22] <Kamion> BST => British Summer Time
[08:22] <afranke> hi all
[08:22] <nufan> Hello
[08:23] <hunger> At least we got the timezone confusion covered before the meeting starts;-)
[08:23] <nufan> heh
[08:23] <hunger> So far that was the hot topic for the first 30 min (and min. 60-90) of each IRC meeting I attended.
[08:23] <afranke> still half an hour to wait, huh ?
[08:23] <nufan> The wiki agenda is for Tuesday, whats being discussed today?
[08:23] <Kamion> nufan: breezy kickoff
[08:23] <nufan> Neato.
[08:24] <dholbach> nufan: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar
[08:35] <KaiL> in which channel was that advert? ;)
[08:37] <dsas> I've just realised the UK isn't running on UTC at the mo :$ whoops
[08:37] <afranke> :)
[08:38] <afranke> guess it's UTC+1 ?
[08:38] <dholbach> no
[08:39] <Kamion> the UK is on UTC+0100, yes
[08:39] <WebWiz> starts in 20 min then right?
[08:39] <WebWiz> either that our i calculated it wrong lol
[08:40] <Seveas> in the next meeting announcement, please mention date -u
[08:40] <Seveas> :)\
[08:40] <afranke> http://www.time.gov/timezone.cgi?UTC/s/0/java for those who are looking for a UTC timer
[08:49] <Amaranth> 10 minutes?
[08:50] <afranke> yeah
[08:50] <Seveas> encounting...
[08:52] <dholbach> hey JanC 
[08:52] <dholbach> jani
[08:52] <jani> hey dholbach :)
[08:52] <zul> hey
[08:52] <Nafallo> hmm, I need more coffein here. :-)
[08:52] <dholbach> good thinking
[08:54] <\sh> g'evening gentlemen
[08:54] <Echylo> hi
[08:54] <Treenaks> hello
[08:54] <zul> there is a meeting today?
[08:54] <Treenaks> in ~6 minutes
[08:54] <thom> zul: breezy kickoff
[08:54] <afranke> zul stands for ?
[08:54] <Echylo> as long it is not german grammar, it's allright :p
[08:55] <afranke> oh ok
[08:55] <\sh> i liked french grammar :) easy to accomplish, reading as well easy, but speaking and writing sometimes ;)
[08:55] <KaiL> Echylo: there is no real German grammar, it's random ;)
[08:55] <afranke> yeah, German grammar is hard
[08:55] <Echylo> haha
[08:55] <\sh> KaiL: hahaha
[08:55] <thom> good morning mdz
[08:55] <mdz> morning
[08:55] <ogra> hey mdz
[08:55] <mdz> the Breezy kickoff meeting will begin in 2 minutes
[08:55] <ogra> :)
[08:55] <afranke> hey
[08:55] <ajmitch_> morning 
[08:55] <jbailey> g'm mdz
[08:55] <\sh> afranke: learn latin and u will your german challenge
[08:56] <jeroen_> Latin :)
[08:56] <afranke> I actually learned latin a bit
[08:56] <Echylo> I did latin for 2 years, didn't helped much
[08:56] <elmo> mdz: dude, your clock's out again
[08:56] <afranke> :)
[08:56] <Echylo> help*
[08:56] <\sh> Echylo: well...I learned it from my son...after all, it's quite easy ;)
[08:56] <Echylo> :)
[08:56] <\sh> Echylo: and after that, I understood some of our stupid german grammar ;)
[08:56] <Echylo> well it's quite dead, so I don't worry
[08:57] <jeroen_> not in the courts
[08:57] <Echylo> and I don't even try to understand german
[08:57] <\sh> Echylo: it will become famouse again ;) wait until papa was in germany ;)
[08:57] <Echylo> :)
[08:57] <\sh> just joking..no offense :)
[08:57] <mdz> elmo: step time server 82.211.81.145 offset -139.290417 sec
[08:57] <mvo> morning mdz 
[08:58] <afranke> mdz: shouldn't you switch Tue 17 and Tue 10 in the chan's topic ?
[08:58] <mdz> I sync time to my router, whose clock drift is insane
[08:58] <mdz> afranke: no, CC is tomorrow and TB is one week following
[08:58] <Treenaks> mdz: oh.. time drift is not /that/ insane? :P
[08:58] <afranke> yeah but I mean 10 comes before 17
[08:58] <thom> mdz: i think afranke was suggesting that the CC announce should be first in the topic
[08:59] <afranke> right thom
[09:00] <Amaranth> *ding*
[09:00] <mdz> Treenaks: about 12 seconds/hour
[09:00] <mdz> ok, let's get started
[09:00] <JaneW> mdz: we gonna wait a minute for stragglers?
[09:00] <JaneW> ok, not
[09:00] <mdz> JaneW: let's see if anyone's missing
[09:00] <Echylo> yea, need to get some coke :p
[09:00] <mdz> I know infinity couldn't make it
[09:01] <\sh> evening amu :)
[09:01] <amu> moin
[09:01] <JaneW> chmj didn;t make it either
[09:01] <ogra> hey amu
[09:01] <mdz> if you're an Ubuntu developer, please state that you're present
[09:01] <jbailey> mdz: here
[09:01] <ogra> here
[09:02] <evarlast> hi jammcq, jay wren formerly from OU here :)
[09:02] <Riddell> present
[09:02] <seb128> present
[09:02] <zul> present
[09:02] <dholbach> here
[09:02] <ajmitch_> present
[09:02] <haggai> here
[09:02] <thom> here
[09:02] <jani> hi
[09:02] <lamont> moo
[09:02] <mdz> fabbione, doko?
[09:02] <mdz> ah, hi fabbione
[09:02] <fabbione> mdz :)
[09:02] <doko> here
[09:03] <mdz> JaneW: did daniels say whether he would be here?
[09:03] <Kamion> present
[09:03] <Amaranth> elmo?
[09:03] <mdz> elmo is here
[09:03] <JaneW> mdz: no not specifically
[09:03] <Kamion> he set his sleep cycle with the intent of being here
[09:04] <Amaranth> Last I heard from daniels was him going to bed about 6 hours ago.
[09:04] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: did you make it?
[09:04] <Kamion> 13:03 < daniels> seb128: in the morning, need to go to bed now for breezy kickoff meeting
[09:04] <Kamion> (UTC+0100)
[09:05] <Amaranth> He'll probably show up in the middle.
[09:05] <mdz> ok, let's get started then
[09:05] <mdz> the meat of this meeting will be to review the list of Breezy targets, and determine who will work on which features
[09:05] <mdz> we have a long list, so we won't be able to spend much time on any of them
[09:05] <Amaranth> where is the list?
[09:05] <mdz> they're all specified in the UDU wiki if anyone would like to review
[09:06] <nufan> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/BreezyGoals
[09:06] <mdz> no, that page is not valid
[09:06] <mdz> (yet)
[09:06] <nufan> Sorry.
[09:06] <Amaranth> that's probably what we're adding to here :)
[09:06] <mdz> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/temp/specs
[09:06] <mdz> that's the list we'll be working from today
[09:07] <mdz> infinity: hey, welcome
[09:07] <Amaranth> wow, you weren't kidding about it being long
[09:07] <dholbach> mdz: please remove GettingInvolvedInUniverse - it was a hands-on--experience BOF
[09:07] <thom> mdz: no BluetoothSupport?
[09:07] <pitti> grrr
[09:07] <mdz> thom: that must have been missing a tag; I've added it to my local copy
[09:07] <ajmitch_> Amaranth: it was a busy week
[09:08] <dholbach> thom, pitti: we had so much fun in the BOF :-)
[09:08] <seb128> seen, pitti is not happy ;)
[09:08] <mdz> dholbach: thanks
[09:08] <thom> mdz: ah, k
[09:08] <seb128> s/n//
[09:08] <Kamion> dholbach: remove BreezyGoal from that page, maybe
[09:08] <mdz> I trimmed the list by hand, but clearly I missed a few non-feature BOFs
[09:08] <dholbach> will do
[09:08] <mdz> Kamion: BreezyGoal is meaningless at this point; I'll be going through after the meeting
[09:08] <Kamion> figured it might be a bit, yeah
[09:08] <mdz> so, starting from the top
[09:08] <dholbach> Kamion: done
[09:08] <mdz> AudioCDBurinng
[09:08] <mdz> seb128 and ogra worked on this spec
[09:08] <ogra> yep
[09:08] <seb128> I've already uploaded serpentine
[09:09] <mpt> BreezyGoal was on all BoFs by default and people forgot to remove it
[09:09] <seb128> I'll take care of it
[09:09] <ogra> and gnomebakert is in already
[09:09] <ogra> -t
[09:09] <mdz> ogra: will you follow up on the remainder of the plan?
[09:09] <ogra> yep
[09:09] <mdz> great
[09:09] <mdz> AudioInftrastructure, pitti and fabbione worked on this spec
[09:09] <mdz> AudioInfrastructure, even
[09:10] <pitti> we could get into trouble with dmix, but it's worth a try
[09:10] <fabbione> mdz: yes, i already took some tasks inside it (kernel side)
[09:10] <fabbione> mdz: but the rest is alsa expert field
[09:10] <mdz> will you jointly own this project for Breezy?
[09:10] <pitti> yes
[09:10] <mdz> or is there anyone else who would like to get involved?
[09:10] <fabbione> mdz: i will take care of the kernel side...
[09:10] <pitti> crimsum
[09:10] <pitti> crimsun, even
[09:10] <dholbach> crimsun
[09:10] <mdz> have you talked with him already?
[09:10] <crimsun> sure thing, I'll look at the url
[09:10] <crimsun> (sorry, just reattached)
[09:11] <mdz> I wouldn't want to volunteer him for something without his permission ;-)
[09:11] <mdz> ok, take a look, we'll move on meanwhile
[09:11] <mdz> BluetoothSupport
[09:11] <thom> yep
[09:11] <mdz> thom and pitti worked on the spec
[09:12] <fabbione> does it need anything from the kernel side?
[09:12] <mdz> thom: does it require both of you?
[09:12] <thom> i'm happy to take this on; i actually have some bluetooth hardware now :-)
[09:12] <mdz> who would like to help thom with bluetooth?
[09:12] <Riddell> I'll make sure kbluetooth gets pacakaged, although I don't think it's in the spec
[09:12] <mdz> especially those of you with appropriate hardware to use for testing
[09:12] <JaneW> Q: are we make one person primarily responsible or a first and second?
[09:12] <fabbione> thom: is there anything that needs to be done kernel side?
[09:12] <thom> fabbione: not that i'm aware of
[09:12] <fabbione> thom: ok thanks
[09:12] <mdz> JaneW: generally either one or two people take responsibility, depending on the project
[09:12] <thom> fabbione: the bluetooth drivers are pretty much complete afaik
[09:13] <dholbach> i can help testing
[09:13] <mdz> I expect this will not always be the same set of people who worked on the spec
[09:13] <abarbaccia> i can help testing as well - i have a bunch of bluetooth hardware
[09:13] <mdz> JaneW: please make a note of people who volunteer to help with testing and such, even if they can't take responsibility for implementation
[09:14] <mdz> thom: can you own bluetooth, or do you feel that you need a second?
[09:14] <\sh> old working buddy
[09:14] <thom> mdz: i think i can own it
[09:15] <mdz> thom: ok, for the missing pieces, I'll need for you to create more detailed specs so that we have the option of bounties for them
[09:15] <thom> mdz: i'll just need lots of testing help; there's an awful lot of hardware to cover
[09:15] <mdz> BrandingForDerivatives
[09:15] <thom> mdz: noted
[09:15] <Kamion> I'm already in progress on the installer side of BFD
[09:15] <mdz> kamion and pitti were the spec leads
[09:15] <Kamion> (discussing with upstream; anything I can't do upstream I'll do locally)
[09:15] <mdz> I'd like for the two of you to stay with this one, since there's a lot of context
[09:15] <pitti> I can help a bit where possible, but it's mostly installer related
[09:16] <pitti> of course I'm in
[09:16] <Kamion> agreed. I'd prefer not to be sucked into the non-installer side though, if possible
[09:16] <JaneW> mdz: belated, sure
[09:16] <Kamion> so sounds like a joint project
[09:16] <jbailey> mdz: I can help look at that too, since I've done some of it once.
[09:16] <mdz> Edubuntu will be jeff elkner, colin applegate and eric harrison
[09:16] <pitti> Kamion: okay, then I'm responsible for the non-installer side then
[09:17] <mdz> I don't think they were able to attend this meeting
[09:17] <Kamion> pitti: nod
[09:17] <jammcq> mdz: i've got a SkoleLinux buddy who might like to help with Edubuntu
[09:17] <mdz> ExpandingUniverse, ogra and dholbach?
[09:17] <ogra> yep
[09:17] <dholbach> yes
[09:17] <dholbach> already working on it ;-)
[09:17] <mdz> jammcq: please send contact details to JaneW
[09:17] <jammcq> k
[09:18] <mdz> FormalTestPlans didn't quite make it onto the schedule at UDU
[09:18] <jbailey> I'm interested in FTP
[09:18] <Riddell> \sh: lets get you to MOTU first (then we can take over universe)
[09:18] <mdz> is anyone interested in the development of formal QA test plans for testing Ubuntu?
[09:18] <mdz> jbailey: ok
[09:18] <\sh> Riddell: aggreed :)
[09:18] <ogra> mdz, amu already has some...
[09:18] <amu> mdz: sounds fine for me 
[09:18] <dholbach> amu: didn't you have QA test plans?
[09:18] <dholbach> ah ok :-)
[09:18] <mdz> amu: ok, thanks
[09:19] <ajmitch_> dholbach: there was AutomatedTesting as well
[09:19] <mdz> GraphicalInstaller was a discussion/roadmap BOF
[09:19] <ogra> amu, i'll be there to help out 
[09:19] <pitti> mdz: AutomatedTesting sounds like a subset of Formal QA
[09:19] <Amaranth> Is JaneW the secretary or something? :)
[09:19] <mdz> pitti: they are related, but FormalTestPlans is about creating documents that the community can use to participate in formal testing
[09:19] <mdz> pitti: step-by-step test plans
[09:19] <Kamion> GraphicalInstaller has one piece left in it
[09:20] <Kamion> namely putting the base system onto the live CD
[09:20] <mdz> Amaranth: JaneW is the newest member of the Ubuntu team
[09:20] <jbailey> pitti: FormalTestPlans should include user acceptance testing, and such.
[09:20] <infinity> mdz : Count me in on FTP with jbailey.
[09:20] <amu> ogra: ack
[09:20] <mdz> everyone say hello to JaneW ;-)
[09:20] <dholbach> JaneW: you rock! :-)
[09:20] <pitti> hello JaneW 
[09:20] <ogra>  hello to JaneW ;-)
[09:20] <Amaranth> mdz: Ah. You said to send info to her so I thought she was the meeting secretary. :)
[09:20] <crimsun> hi again, JaneW :)
[09:20] <doko> JaneW: hello JaneW 
[09:20] <infinity> "Good morning, miss W!"
[09:20] <Nafallo> JaneW: hi there :-)
[09:20] <fabbione> mdz: not only.. she is also our new kernel name release manager :)
[09:20] <mdz> she will be helping us from a project management angle
[09:20] <seb128> hello JaneW 
[09:20] <ogra> yeah
[09:20] <ajmitch_> hi JaneW :)
[09:20] <afranke> hi JaneW
[09:20] <KaiL> the most mportant with a graphical installer is an easy way to disable it :p
[09:21] <Amaranth> nogui boot option?
[09:21] <thom> JaneW: know who we all are yet? ;-)
[09:21] <Kamion> KaiL: it doesn't sound like you've read the spec at all
[09:21] <mdz> ogra: are you still interested in working on GraphicalPartitioningTool?
[09:21] <\sh> KaiL: server install will fit for you ;)
[09:21] <ogra> mdz, sure
[09:21] <dholbach> mdz: me too
[09:21] <mdz> ogra,dholbach: great
[09:21] <ogra> mdz, but dholbach would be a great addition
[09:21] <mvo> mdz: if help is needed there, I'm in too
[09:21] <ajmitch_> I can help there also
[09:21] <dholbach> woohoo! :-)
[09:22] <dholbach> the more the merrier :-)
[09:22] <ajmitch_> ogra: it's good fun ;)
[09:22] <mdz> LTSPXorgConfiguration is a daniels and jammcq affair
[09:22] <\sh> ogra: have a look at redhat installer ;)
[09:22] <TheMuso> mdz: if accessibility is being considered, I can put my hand up to help make sure that happens.
[09:22] <TheMuso> For the installer.
[09:22] <mdz> mvo: thanks
[09:22] <mdz> guys, we're not here to discuss the specs; we can do that on the mailing list and in the wiki
[09:22] <KaiL> \sh: problem are more laptops, which doesn't like framebuffer and such - but that's OT now
[09:22] <zul> i can help kernel side if need be
[09:22] <jbailey> parted is apparently looking for a new upstream, so you might run into issues there.
[09:22] <mdz> our primary purpose here is to organize who is going to work on which projects
[09:23] <Kamion> TheMuso: best if you work with either me or whoever ends up working on UbuntuExpress for that
[09:23] <mdz> LanguagePackRoadmap -> pitti?
[09:23] <pitti> of course
[09:23] <mdz> pitti: who can work with you on that?
[09:23] <pitti> with carlos' help
[09:23] <pitti> for the Rosetta side
[09:24] <mdz> pitti: I think someone from the distro side should work with you on it, since currently I think you're the only one who is very familiar with the language pack infrastructure
[09:24] <pitti> amu or Riddell would be nice, too, for the Kubuntu parts
[09:24] <Riddell> I can do that
[09:24] <amu> pitti: sure 
[09:24] <pitti> indeed, someone else should learn that stuff, too
[09:24] <mdz> JaneW: put Charles down for language packs as well
[09:24] <JaneW> ok
[09:24] <mdz> LaunchpadIntegration is next
[09:25] <pitti> is adi still on board?
[09:25] <JaneW> pitti: yes
[09:25] <mdz> JaneW: for all of Breezy?
[09:25] <JaneW> mdz: I thought so, I heard they wanted to involve her more...
[09:25] <mdz> ok
[09:25] <JaneW> I'll check
[09:26] <mdz> seb128 and daf worked on LaunchpadIntegration
[09:26] <mdz> seb128: can you handle the Ubuntu side, and we'll get someone from Launchpad also?
[09:26] <seb128> no pb
[09:26] <mdz> thanks
[09:26] <mdz> JaneW: we'll need to requisition a launchpad developer from kiko/stevea
[09:26] <Nafallo> mdz: I can jump on to the languepacks
[09:27] <mdz> Nafallo: sure
[09:27] <pitti> Hey daf
[09:27] <daf> hi
[09:27] <seb128> hey daf
[09:27] <JaneW> did we skip ContentFiltering?
[09:27] <mdz> NFSRoot is part of EarlyUserspace at this point, right jbailey?
[09:27] <dholbach> daf: <mdz> seb128 and daf worked on LaunchpadIntegration
[09:27] <mdz> JaneW: yes, thanks
[09:27] <daf> dholbach: ah, context, thanks
[09:27] <jbailey> mdz: Yup, it's a couple add on scripts, and then some fixes to other existing packages.
[09:28] <fabbione> jbailey: is there anything you need kernel side for it+
[09:28] <mdz> jbailey: that's yours, then
[09:28] <jbailey> fabbione: Nothing at all. =)
[09:28] <mdz> fabbione: nothing we don't have already
[09:28] <fabbione> jbailey: ok...
[09:28] <mdz> hmm, except the initramfs infrastructure
[09:28] <mdz> which needs kernel-package modifications, I assume
[09:28] <fabbione> mdz: i need to be sure.. i saw around 20 references to the kernel outside the kernel roadmap
[09:28] <jbailey> Right, those are make-kpkg changes, not actual in-kernel stuff, though.
[09:29] <fabbione> jbailey: ok, than i am with you on this
[09:29] <jbailey> 'k
[09:29] <mdz> Mithrandir: are you here?
[09:29] <Kamion> has anyone phoned daniels, btw? if not, I can
[09:29] <mdz> Mithrandir was second on EarlyUserspace, if he can work with jbailey on that, that'd be ideal
[09:29] <mdz> Kamion: I haven't, and please do
[09:29] <Nafallo> mdz: he's in oslo. he should try to get internetaccess, but wasn't sure...
[09:29] <mdz> JaneW: let's check with Tollef when he returns
[09:30] <jbailey> I chatted with him 45 minutes ago.
[09:30] <infinity> fabbione : If you need/want help with anything make-kpkg related, let me know... I've been in pretty deep with Manoj many times.
[09:30] <mdz> jumping back to ContentFiltering...
[09:30] <fabbione> infinity: thanks, that will be breat
[09:30] <fabbione> great even
[09:30] <mdz> JaneW: ContentFiltering is jeff elkner and eric harrison; they aren't here, but it's an Edubuntu supporting feature
[09:30] <Kamion> answerphone from daniels' mobile
[09:31] <Seveas> silence..?
[09:31] <mdz> NetworkMagic -- thom?
[09:31] <thom> yeppity yep
[09:32] <daniels> *cough*
[09:32] <pitti> Hey daniels!
[09:32] <Amaranth> yay!
[09:32] <infinity> Morning, sunshine.
[09:32] <ogra> daniels !
[09:32] <seb128> hey daniels 
[09:32] <ajmitch_> morning daniels 
[09:32] <daniels> morning
[09:32] <JaneW> hi daniels
[09:32] <daniels> hi all
[09:32] <mdz> daniels: interested in working with thom on NetworkMagic?
[09:32] <Kamion> daniels: don't think you've missed anything that belonged to you yet; we're working down http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/temp/specs, currently at NetworkMagic
[09:33] <ajmitch_> mdz: I'm interested
[09:34] <Nafallo> thom: I'll help testing on amd64 when you need it :-)
[09:34] <mdz> ajmitch_: cool
[09:34] <Seveas> Does networkmagic also cover WPA/802.1X for wireless networks?
[09:34] <mdz> Seveas: no, that's more of an ISPAuthentication issue
[09:34] <daniels> mdz: depends on how much it would involve; if ajmitch could better do it, that would work out well
[09:34] <infinity> mdz : I BoFd NetworkMagic a bit, and some of it runs squarely down my alley.
[09:34] <Treenaks> mdz: it should be part of NetMagic I guess
[09:34] <Seveas> mdz, WPA isn;t really an ISP thing
[09:34] <thom> Nafallo: i'm on amd64, but testing will be good :-)
[09:35] <Seveas> it really should belong at NetworkMagic
[09:35] <mdz> infinity: ok, you and ajmitch can work with thom on it
[09:35] <mdz> Seveas: that BOF was difficult to name; trust me that it fits there ;-)
[09:35] <Seveas> ok :)
[09:35] <Seveas> i'll wait for that one
[09:35] <mdz> Seveas: it includes network access authentication stuff in general
[09:35] <lamont> mdz: WirelessNetworkMagic has the WEP/WPA stuff, and exists as a spec of things that NetworkMagic needs to handle
[09:36] <mdz> WirelessNetworkManagement, you mean?
[09:36] <thom> yes
[09:36] <mdz> I don't see WPA mentioned there
[09:37] <mdz> at any rate, NetworkMagic itself will be complex enough, we can separate off the WPA bits
[09:37] <mdz> NetworkWideUpdates, specified by mvo and infinity
[09:37] <mvo> mdz: I can take it
[09:38] <jbailey> mdz: I had many conversations with mvo and infinity, I'd like to be involved on thatl
[09:38] <mdz> I'm sure we have a number of folks here who would like to at least participate in testing
[09:38] <mdz> (if you're among them, speak up)
[09:38] <mdz> jbailey: ok, sounds good
[09:38] <fabbione> i can test i think
[09:38] <infinity> mdz : I'll stay involved on that one, as well.
[09:39] <haggai> I'm apt-proxy author and am available if need be
[09:39] <Nafallo> mdz: I'll test :-)
[09:39] <mdz> I'm not sure that it needs three people, but we can put all of you down and see how it falls later
[09:39] <infinity> mdz : <nod>
[09:39] <fabbione> mdz: i already did something similar in a previous job
[09:39] <infinity> Easier to kick people off a task than to bring new people in.
[09:39] <fabbione> mdz: so i can help there
[09:39] <mdz> fabbione: ok
[09:40] <mdz> OEMInstaller
[09:40] <mdz> specified by Kamion and Mithrandir
[09:40] <JaneW> mdz: I am not clear what I need to check with Tollef...
[09:40] <JaneW> oh EarlyUserSpace, whether he'll run with it?
[09:40] <mdz> JaneW: yes
[09:40] <mdz> JaneW: also OEMInstaller now
[09:41] <JaneW> mdz: sorry I have horrible lag here suddenly - I'll try to keep up
[09:41] <mdz> JaneW: we can go over the log afterward if necessary
[09:41] <Amaranth> we lost thom! :/
[09:41] <Kamion> it seems practically certain that I'll end up involved in OEMInstaller somehow
[09:41] <infinity> Kamion : Seems so, yes.
[09:41] <mdz> Kamion: I should hope so
[09:41] <ogra> heh
[09:41] <Nafallo> hehe
[09:41] <Treenaks> Kamion: doesn't the branding tie into it as well?
[09:41] <Kamion> I may as well lead it
[09:41] <infinity> Kamion : If you need more input, it's something I'm quite interested in.
[09:42] <mdz> Kamion: agreed
[09:42] <elmo> we should just auto-assign anything matching '.*staller.*' to kamion and move on 
[09:42] <elmo> ;P
[09:42] <fabbione> elmo: ehhehe
[09:42] <Kamion> Treenaks: OEMs might well want that, but I think it's orthogonal to that spec
[09:42] <ogra> elmo, like "the partitioner ate my disk" ?
[09:42] <mdz> elmo: we need to distribute the installer experience a bit :-P
[09:42] <mdz> OpenOfficeLocalisation is next
[09:43] <Kamion> infinity: yes, please. I don't know how much time Tollef will have early on.
[09:43] <mdz> specified by doko and carlos
[09:43] <doko> yes, we should work both on that
[09:43] <mdz> doko: we definitely want you on this
[09:43] <mdz> JaneW: need to confirm with Launchpad mgmt regarding carlos
[09:43] <JaneW> mdz: ok
[09:44] <mdz> PrintingRoadmap, specified by pitti and daniels
[09:44] <mdz> (speaking of which, I switched from hpoj to hplip yesterday, and it's 100% better)
[09:44] <pitti> mdz: then we need you for testing
[09:44] <infinity> JaneW : Sign me up for OEMInstaller, if you haven't already.
[09:44] <mdz> I believe daniels has similar hardware, which is one of the reasons he's associated with this topic
[09:44] <JaneW> infinity: done ;)
[09:45] <KaiL> printing is something, which might need very much testers..?
[09:45] <mdz> KaiL: definitely
[09:45] <pitti> mdz: ah, ok; however, I can do and test the other magic 
[09:45] <elmo> the lunchpad has a HP now
[09:45] <elmo> (FWIW)
[09:45] <Amaranth> I have a lexmark p707 i can be a guinea pig with, if needed.
[09:45] <infinity> PrintingRoadmap will need lots of testers, not the least of reasons being that most programmer don't own printers. :/
[09:45] <KaiL> lol
[09:45] <mdz> pitti: hplip just needs to be de-rooted, and we should be able to add it to the default install to have all-in-ones Just Work
[09:45] <Amaranth> I actually had to installed an rpm to make it work, so I'm interested. :)
[09:46] <mdz> daniels: can you stick with PrintingRoadmap?
[09:46] <minghua> I've got a HP inkjet (845C I think) and I can help testing if needed
[09:46] <jbailey> I have a mixed network I can use for windows testing of printing, but that might be more under WindowsInteroperability
[09:46] <daniels> mdz: sure
[09:46] <mdz> ok
[09:46] <infinity> jbailey : I'm just going to steal you wholesale for anything vaguely Win32-related.
[09:46] <daniels> i'm not entirely convinced I'll get to keep the psc1210 with me when I move out
[09:46] <mdz> ShtoomVoip, specified by `anthony and thom
[09:46] <daniels> but I should at least have access to it when I need it
[09:46] <KaiL> we could use the community for testing here - if any printer needs manual work, this manual work should be automated in the next version
[09:46] <mdz> `anthony is likely asleep
[09:46] <jbailey> infinity: Yes, dear.
[09:46] <Nafallo> canon bjc-600e parallell avalible.
[09:47] <thom_> quite happy to take shtoom packaging, daf's done most of the hardwork ;-)
[09:48] <daf> thom: you're welcome :)
[09:48] <Nafallo> thom: I hope to be able to test bits of that :-).
[09:48] <daf> thom: I have some FHS compliance work on my todo list
[09:48] <thom> mdz: the server side stuff will need to drag elmo in, too
[09:48] <mdz> thom: yes
[09:48] <elmo> uh, whatnow?
[09:48] <fabbione> elmo: you get to pay beer to everybody
[09:48] <pitti> fabbione ++
[09:48] <thom> elmo: sip servers on our hardware... i mean, what fabio said
[09:49] <elmo> oh, that, ok
[09:49] <fabbione> ;)
[09:49] <elmo> that crack is a breezy goal?
[09:49] <daf> thom: will you be doing the SER packaging, then?
[09:49] <thom> elmo: ya
[09:49] <elmo> score
[09:49] <mdz> JaneW: in addition to the packaging bits of this, there's a pretty sizeable development project; we need to check with Mark on his plans for that
[09:50] <Nafallo> thom: asterisk connectivity will be there for me to test, right? :-)
[09:50] <mdz> ThinClientIntegration will be primarily jammcq and myself
[09:50] <mdz> though we will need a lot of testers
[09:50] <JaneW> mdz: ok...
[09:50] <mdz> JaneW: adi mentioned that she had testing facilities available
[09:50] <fabbione> mdz: count on me for testing...
[09:50] <jbailey> I should be marked on there somewhere, since it depends on nfsroot and earlyuserspace.
[09:51] <mdz> and hopefully jammcq can help get us in contact with testers from the LTSP community
[09:51] <mdz> jbailey: yes, that's a direct dependency
[09:51] <mdz> excellent
[09:52] <mdz> ToggleDesktopModes, specified by jdub and seb128
[09:52] <seb128> mdz: I've worked on sabayon yesterday and today, package ready
[09:52] <seb128> mdz: so for me
[09:52] <dholbach> seb128: woohoo
[09:53] <mdz> dholbach: I take that to mean that you'll work with seb128 on it? ;-)
[09:53] <dholbach> mdz: the GNOME team will :-)
[09:53] <ogra> hehe
[09:53] <sivang> now here is someone you havn't seen for some time :-)
[09:53] <seb128> ah ah
[09:53] <Amaranth> hehe
[09:53] <mdz> Riddell: let's discuss that sometime soon; I think it overlaps in some places but doesn't provide the same functionality that we originally intended for this feature
[09:53] <dholbach> infinity: ho wait... that's all ExpandingUniverse, right? :-)
[09:53] <mdz> JaneW: I know sivang is interested in helping with LaunchpadIntegration
[09:54] <sivang> JanC: very much :-)
[09:54] <JaneW> ok, noted
[09:54] <mdz> ToolchainRoadmap was specified by doko and jbailey, and they are already making progress on it
[09:55] <jbailey> Ayup
[09:55] <seb128> mdz: there is no real need to help with the way we have picked (ie: there is not a lot of work), but right 
[09:55] <mdz> there's a substantial universe component to that, so perhaps dholbach or ogra should be involved
[09:55] <dholbach> jbailey, doko: when will be the big bang for c++?
[09:55] <JaneW> could people who I don't know, but are volunteering to help,  please mail me with their real name, nick name  (and e-mail address) to janew@ubuntu.com. thanks.
[09:55] <ogra> mdz, ok
[09:56] <dholbach> mdz: absolutely
[09:56] <mdz> ok, both
[09:56] <doko> mdz: helping hands for the renaming uploads of library packages would be nice.
[09:56] <jbailey> JaneW: What % of the distro team does that include?
[09:56] <Amaranth> JaneW: Volunteering to help or test?
[09:57] <lamont> jbailey: she has a spreadsheet now, with all of us.
[09:57] <tseng|work> jbaily: what % is 3 of 16?
[09:57] <dholbach> doko: i'll mobilize the MOTU side of the force :-)
[09:57] <Nafallo> JaneW: done
[09:57] <infinity> doko : I'm in for rapid transition stuff.
[09:57] <seb128> jbailey: that probably includes me, I never got the mail about the evolution bug I was supposed to get :p
[09:57] <JaneW> jbailey: watch-it, I studied!
[09:57] <doko> infinity: fine
[09:57] <lamont> doko: how much of the rename is scriptable?
[09:57] <mdz> doko,JaneW: charles can work with doko on ToolchainRoadmap
[09:57] <trulux> heya
[09:57] <pitti> Hi trulux 
[09:57] <trulux> hey pitti 
[09:58] <dholbach> lamont: don't think it's possible - because of changed and tightened build-depends, or am i wrong, doko?
[09:58] <trulux> pitti: I came to talk a bit on the new spec.
[09:58] <pitti> trulux: in #ubuntu-devel please
[09:58] <dholbach> trulux: we're mostly assigning
[09:58] <doko> lamont: I don't think much for the libraries. better do these by hand.
[09:58] <tseng|work> trulux: can you please follow the agenda
[09:58] <trulux> pitti: before uploading andso on (I got back a partially funcitonal box until I recover the backups from the devel. one)
[09:58] <lamont> doko: ok
[09:58] <sivang> hey trulux 
[09:58] <trulux> hey sivang !
[09:58] <mdz> UbuntuExpress is primarily my fault, but I don't expect to have the time to be the lead on the implementation (and I don't expect Kamion to either)
[09:58] <trulux> tseng|work: sure
[09:59] <Kamion> I imagine both of us will be contributing fairly significantly, but agreed
[09:59] <JaneW> mdz: time check, we're an hour in now.
[09:59] <ogra> mdz, i'd like to care for the gui part
[09:59] <tseng|work> trulux: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/temp/specs, we'll get to you
[09:59] <mdz> JaneW: kiko mentioned that he had people in Brazil who were very interested in UbuntuExpress, we need to follow up on that
[09:59] <mdz> JaneW: thanks, I think we'll probably cut it off at 2 hours and defer the rest to mail or a second meeting
[09:59] <Kamion> whoever takes it up needs to be very conscious of working with people, and not just going it alone (a symptom I've noticed)
[10:00] <Kamion> since much of the point is to have something well-integrated
[10:00] <Amaranth> ok, let's start flying :)
[10:00] <trulux> tseng|work: ok, thanks. I'll get finished the u-h spec soon
[10:00] <mdz> JaneW: ogra + check-with-kiko's-people on UbuntuExpress
[10:00] <ogra> thanks :)
[10:01] <mdz> JaneW: they'll be working directly with me and Colin to be sure that it follows our intentions
[10:01] <Kamion> a number of people have expressed interest in a live CD installer at various times, so we should get design stuff out early and often
[10:01] <Kamion> to bring them in
[10:01] <mvo> mdz: I would like to be part of it too 
[10:01] <mdz> mvo: sounds good
[10:02] <mdz> Kamion: yes, it will need extreme amounts of testing
[10:02] <mdz> VideoPlaybackRoadmap, specified by seb128 and daniels
[10:02] <seb128> mdz: I'm handling the gstreamer part, daniels the xine part
[10:02] <mdz> sounds good
[10:03] <mdz> JaneW: Charles expressed interest as well
[10:03] <daniels> yeah, I'm going to be putting a newer xine into universe
[10:03] <mdz> and of course there will be gobs of testers needed
[10:03] <JaneW> mdz: ok
[10:03] <mdz> daniels: and trying to get a stripped-down xine into main, right?
[10:03] <Nafallo> daniels: great! I'll test it :-).
[10:03] <mdz> (the goal is to have a reasonable playback engine in main)
[10:03] <elmo> mdz: reasonable how?
[10:03] <Amaranth> wouldn't gstreamer cover that?
[10:04] <tseng|work> a member at the bof thought it was very feasible to rip out patented bits of xine
[10:04] <elmo> (err, nm, can discuss elsewhere)
[10:04] <Amaranth> with pitfdll it handles all major formats
[10:04] <seb128> Amaranth: the spec says we keep both option and pick the best one
[10:04] <KaiL> tseng|work: and what is left then?
[10:04] <tseng|work> pitfdll isnt distributable in a working state, no dlls
[10:04] <tseng|work> KaiL: open formats without ridiculous sync issues in gst?
[10:04] <mdz> ok, no time to discuss it now, review the spec and take discussion to the mailing list
[10:04] <tseng|work> anyway, discuss later
[10:05] <tim1> tseng|work: with gstreamer you can just decide which modules you want to have in main or universe, no hassle with stripped-down versions
[10:05] <KaiL> tseng|work: problem that around no files are in these open formats :(
[10:05] <mdz> XRoadmap will be led by daniels
[10:05] <Nafallo> naturally :-)
[10:05] <KaiL> so better force the people to install media support later than have something nearly useless as default..
[10:05] <fabbione> mdz: i will be around as backup
[10:06] <mdz> fabbione: ok
[10:06] <daniels> seems pretty sensible, yeah
[10:06] <fabbione> daniels: start to put everything in arch archives please..
[10:06] <daniels> mdz: i believe the plan with xine was to strip it down in universe and see how feasible it was, and then to later use that to make a decision on gstreamer vs xine
[10:06] <daniels> fabbione: i'm putting all the smaller packages into bazaar-ng archives as I split them
[10:06] <fabbione> daniels: ok. 
[10:06] <mdz> Xen is already being implemented by fabbione
[10:07] <fabbione> mdz: no, Xen plans have changes
[10:07] <jbailey> I should probaby be on that, some of the glibc changes affect Xen.
[10:07] <fabbione> mdz: Mithrandir and smurfix are working on it now
[10:07] <Amaranth> that's a 2.6.12 feature, isn't it?
[10:07] <fabbione> Amaranth: no
[10:07] <dholbach> there was somebody on the mailing list having success with it
[10:07] <jbailey> JaneW: Oh please don't... ;)
[10:07] <ogra> hehe
[10:07] <afed> is this a meeting
[10:07] <fabbione> mdz: Mithrandir and smurfix are also evaluating another virtualization implementation that is more portable than xen
[10:07] <dholbach> afed: yes
[10:07] <Nafallo> I'm gonna test Xen aswell ;-)
[10:07] <afed> o
[10:08] <hunger> fabbione: Which one?
[10:08] <mdz> JaneW: ok, need to follow up with Mithrandir and smurfix and see where that's going
[10:08] <fabbione> mdz: my side i will be available when it is time to merge into the main kernel as we agreed during the BoF
[10:08] <sivang> mdz: do we support pSeries hypervisor virtualization like redhat and suse does? (i.e. all it takes is a patched kernel for virutal hardware and hypervisor connectivity)
[10:08] <fabbione> hunger: it's not publically available yet.
[10:09] <mdz> sivang: we haven't looked at it yet; I didn't realize the software was free
[10:09] <sivang> fabbione: I have access to the hardware, would love to test a such when/if realized
[10:09] <sivang> mdz: ah ok, if I have further details, I'll email -devel
[10:09] <mdz> sivang: thans
[10:09] <fabbione> sivang: you want to talk with Mith and smurfix
[10:09] <mdz> thanks
[10:10] <sivang> fabbione: k
[10:10] <mdz> LaptopMission is missing from the high priority list
[10:10] <mdz> JaneW: that'll be largely mjg59
[10:10] <Seveas> between video and xen i missed wirelessnetworkmanagement and xroadmap
[10:11] <mdz> thom: can you back up mjg59 on that?
[10:11] <mdz> Seveas: we discussed them
[10:11] <infinity> What happened to things still marked "NeedsPriority"?
[10:11] <infinity> (specifically thinking of ServerTeam)
[10:12] <mdz> infinity: things still marked NeedsPriority need to be revisited at a later time
[10:12] <JaneW> infinity: in most cases they were left off
[10:12] <infinity> Fair nuff.
[10:12] <mdz> if they weren't obviously HighPriority, they haven't made it into the list yet
[10:12] <blk> is there someone discussing the point "init" tomorrow? (i'm esp. interested if initng is part of the topic)
[10:12] <JaneW> infinity: cvd and I gave some of them a default medium status, but that started confusing things, so we stopped
[10:12] <dholbach> blk: the meeting is right now
[10:13] <mdz> that covers the high-priority tasks pretty well
[10:13] <mdz> let's get through as many medium-priority tasks as we can in the next 45m
[10:13] <Kamion> blk: unless it was one of the things we sat down and specified/designed at UDU, it isn't being discussed here
[10:13] <mdz> AutomatedProblemReports
[10:13] <JaneW> ok, there were 3 discussed that weren't on my list
[10:13] <mpt> blk: FasterBoot is marked as LowPriority, so we probably won't get to it in this meeting
[10:13] <pitti> that covers half of the world, but I'll see how far we will come with that; however, stripping debug symbols and basic crash reporting should be feasible for breezy
[10:13] <mdz> (pitti and mvo)
[10:14] <blk> ok, sorry for interrupting
[10:14] <pitti> mdz: I'm in of course
[10:15] <mdz> pitti: yes, but be sure that you can balance the load with others, since you have some high-priority tasks already
[10:15] <pitti> mvo ?
[10:15] <mvo> mdz: I'm not too keen on it to be honest, but I can help (and I already put some work in the spec)
[10:15] <pitti> mvo: we need you for event-notifier
[10:15] <mdz> is there anyone other than pitti and mvo who is interested in automated problem reports?
[10:16] <lamont> JaneW: given that it's a hack anyway you go at it, I'd rather have someone else screamed at... :)
[10:16] <mdz> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/AutomatedProblemReports
[10:16] <jbailey> mdz: I have some exposure from the bugzilla/bug-buddy hacking as well as support stuff.
[10:16] <jbailey> mdz: Getting crunchy for available time, though.
[10:16] <seb128> mdz: I'm interested by the debug stuff
[10:16] <pitti> sivang_away: it doesn't exist yet
[10:16] <pitti> yeah, we need a pygtk hacker for a frontend
[10:17] <mdz> seb128,jbailey: I'd appreciate your involvement, of course, but I think we need someone who can dedicate a lot of their time to it
[10:17] <Amaranth> frontend for what?
[10:17] <pitti> problem reports
[10:17] <mdz> fabbione: are you interestede in APR at all?
[10:17] <pitti> I have a basic prototype, but not very nice
[10:17] <fabbione> mdz: nope...
[10:17] <KaiL> the only working frontend is IRC, or? :)
[10:17] <ogra> pitti, i can help you with that
[10:17] <pitti> fabbione: it involves kernel panic reports :-)
[10:17] <mpt> pitti: You need design work?
[10:17] <mdz> infinity: or you?
[10:17] <fabbione> pitti: fix your hardware :)
[10:17] <pitti> mpt: probably a bit, yes
[10:18] <pitti> fabbione: fix your kernel crashes
[10:18] <sivang_away> fabbione: lol
[10:18] <Amaranth> that reminds me, anything with a user interface should have mpt autoassigned to it ;)
[10:18] <thom_> argh, can we not call it APR please ;-)
[10:18] <infinity> mdz : I can hack on the guts, but the frontend probably needs someone more gui-oriented. :)
[10:18] <mdz> infinity: the guts need the most attention
[10:18] <infinity> mdz : Fair enough.  Sign me up, then.
[10:18] <mdz> JaneW: we'll need to make some extra passes over this list when it's said and done, to make sure the workload is balanced
[10:18] <Amaranth> next topic?
[10:18] <mpt> pitti: You have my e-mail address?
[10:18] <mdz> JaneW: so include everyone who expressed interest in AutomatedProblemReports, and we'll revisit it at that stage
[10:19] <mdz> CalendaringSynchronisation is next
[10:19] <JaneW> ok
[10:19] <mdz> Mithrandir and jbailey worked on the spec
[10:19] <jbailey> mdz: The deal with CalendaringSynch was basically finish up some stuff in evo, and then wait until upstreams catch up.
[10:19] <jbailey> mdz: Might be best to just defer it.
[10:19] <mdz> there doesn't seem to be much meat here
[10:20] <jbailey> mdz: Otherwise it's potentially a large development effort.
[10:20] <Nafallo> bounty?
[10:20] <mdz> jbailey: we'll want to create more detailed specs for the pieces which are missing, as candidates for bounty projects
[10:20] <jbailey> mdz: 'k
[10:20] <mdz> jbailey: can you take on the specification piece?
[10:20] <jbailey> Yes.
[10:20] <mdz> great
[10:20] <mdz> ClusterFilesystems - fabbione?
[10:20] <fabbione> clusterfs is jdub and mine. i think we already splitted the tasks
[10:21] <fabbione> i am almost done with the packaging. i need to review some bits tho
[10:21] <fabbione> mdz: i would appreciate some people to help with testing
[10:21] <fabbione> (that means at least 2 spare machines available)
[10:22] <mdz> anyone here interested in clusters?
[10:22] <amu> fabbione: count me as a tester 
[10:22] <fabbione> amu: great..
[10:22] <mdz> especially if you happen to have a cluster available ;-)
[10:22] <fabbione> mdz: ehhehe
[10:22] <ogra> hehe
[10:22] <pitti> fabbione: interested in testing
[10:22] <Nafallo> mdz: interest is here, but I lack hardware :-/.
[10:22] <fabbione> also mixed hw is good
[10:22] <pitti> fabbione: if 4 computers count as a minicluster, that is
[10:22] <fabbione> there is no need to have only i386
[10:22] <ogra> fabbione, add me to the testers list
[10:22] <lamont> fabbione: I could almost certainly get involved in the testing
[10:23] <mdz> ok, FasterNetworkedX...is there something we can actually do here?
[10:23] <infinity> pitti : Anything over 1 can be a cluster, for the purpose of testing.
[10:23] <fabbione> JaneW: are you taking notes? ;)
[10:23] <fabbione> thanks guys
[10:23] <mdz> daniels: ?
[10:23] <jammcq> isn't that integrating NX/FreeNX?
[10:23] <mdz> yes, though the spec says disparaging things about it
[10:23] <JaneW> fabbione: trying too, though I think I am going to have fun re-reading all this for the bits I've missed
[10:23] <Riddell> put NX into universe, it's often requested
[10:24] <Riddell> I can do look into it
[10:24] <ogra> mdz, Mithrandirs already works on something.... iirc
[10:24] <mdz> ok, daniels should be involved, Mithrandir has already done some work, and jammcq is interested
[10:24] <mdz> and Riddell
[10:25] <mdz> I think it is a one-person task, but we need to do some followup to see what has been done already among that group
[10:25] <mdz> FileManagerImprovement
[10:25] <mdz> seb128: is there a clear implementation plan for this?
[10:25] <seb128> not really
[10:25] <seb128> half of the point are really upstream code changes
[10:26] <daniels> mdz: mainly mithrandir; there's arelly not much we can do for FNX
[10:26] <pitti> push midnight commander into main? /duck
[10:26] <seb128> I don't feel like doing all of them, maybe we want bounty some stuff?
[10:26] <mrz123> greetings
[10:26] <dholbach> bugreport-prioritization-and-boutying
[10:26] <Seveas> +1 on pittu :)
[10:26] <seb128> the other part should be fine
[10:26] <KaiL> pitti: goood idea
[10:26] <daniels> Riddell: i'd like to see any potential packages before they're put into universe, just as a sanity check
[10:26] <Riddell> daniels: yep
[10:26] <mdz> seb128: we can bounty some of this work if there are sufficiently detailed specs
[10:26] <seb128> pitti: that's GettingRideOfTheDesktop :p
[10:27] <seb128> mdz: I'm thinking about the place/bookmark unification between nautilus and the rest of the desktop
[10:27] <seb128> mdz: I can spec that if we want to bounty it
[10:27] <mdz> seb128: ok, please do
[10:27] <KaiL> seb128: that's also "give users a console editor with a normal UI" :)
[10:27] <mdz> FontHandling
[10:27] <seb128> k
[10:27] <Amaranth> seb128: Someone it working on a spec for that, if I understand the mail to d-d-l correctly.
[10:28] <mdz> mako and jdub worked on the spec
[10:28] <afed> i'd like to make ubunto closed source so terrorists cant read the source code and use it to make viruses pls
[10:28] <mdz> neither of them is likely to be able to spend time on implementation, though
[10:28] <seb128> Amaranth: I've already talked with some upstream about this, cf the gnome wiki
[10:28] <Amaranth> afed: ...
[10:28] <mdz> Amaranth: don't feed the troll
[10:29] <doko> mdz: I'm taking care of OOo2 font side, and prepare a test plan
[10:29] <mdz> there isn't a clear implementation plan, so let's consider it needs-attention for now
[10:30] <mdz> doko: though please do carry on with that
[10:30] <mdz> GdmRoadmap - seb128?
[10:30] <minghua> I would like to work on Chinese fonts
[10:30] <mdz> seb128: this sounds like it needs bounty specs
[10:30] <seb128> mdz: jdub wants to bounty that to Vincent Untz
[10:30] <seb128> will talk with him at GUADEC probably
[10:30] <seb128> both of them in fact
[10:31] <ogra> seb128, that also includes xscreensaver ?
[10:31] <mdz> there are several different projects here
[10:31] <seb128> k, I'll talk with jdub to spec that
[10:31] <afed> sorry for trolling, you guys are obviously too smart for that
[10:31] <mdz> seb128: panel enhancements, same story?
[10:31] <seb128> we had no BOF about this afaik
[10:31] <seb128> and I disagree with half of the stuff on the wiki page
[10:31] <mpt> seb128: correct
[10:31] <mdz> JaneW: ok, flag it to review please
[10:32] <Amaranth> but they're fun!
[10:32] <mdz> GraphicalConfigTools, spec by ogra and seb128
[10:32] <mpt> seb128: Correct on both counts, even :-)
[10:32] <ogra> mdz, not really a spec
[10:32] <mdz> looks like three specs to me
[10:32] <ogra> mdz, it says we will do feasability studies
[10:32] <amu> ogra: xDSL ...  
[10:33] <Nafallo> something to control hdparm would be great.
[10:33] <mdz> we should definitely do the password changing tool
[10:33] <mdz> there has also been a lot of demand for a simple service configuration tool
[10:33] <ogra> mdz, ok, i'll take whats decided there
[10:33] <mdz> JaneW: ok, ogra will work on it, and/or perhaps bounties
[10:33] <ogra> mdz, but we didnt spec it to the end...
[10:33] <ajmitch_> there are other BOFs (SELinux) where we want some graphical config, so I can help
[10:34] <mdz> ogra: depending on your availability, perhaps you can help with the specs for bounty work
[10:34] <ogra> sure :)
[10:34] <thom_> note that there's mention of service restart in networkmagic, too
[10:34] <ogra> ok
[10:34] <mdz> Kamion: you've got simpleresize and stage2progress, right?
[10:34] <thom_> (using a dbus daemon to do restart services)
[10:35] <ogra> thom_, woah
[10:35] <ogra> thom_, thats cool
[10:35] <Kamion> mdz: yes
[10:35] <mdz> fabbione: you are second on the InstallerVolumeManagement spec, and Kamion has a heavy load; can you own it?
[10:35] <ajmitch_> ogra: either that or hack dbus into daemons :)
[10:35] <thom_> i'm happy to help fabbione on that one
[10:36] <fabbione> mdz: i can help for sure, the changes are not too difficult
[10:36] <mdz> ok, great
[10:36] <ogra> ajmitch_, hmm, touching all daemons ?
[10:36] <thom_> (InstallerVolumeManagement, that is)
[10:36] <mdz> IntroDeveloperDocs
[10:36] <Kamion> the automatic-/boot-outside-LVM thing is the hardest bit I think, but we can talk about that later
[10:36] <tseng|work> i spec'd that
[10:36] <ajmitch_> mdz: tseng, and other MOTUs (like myself)
[10:36] <fabbione> Kamion: yes, we need to coordinate that one properly
[10:36] <tseng|work> im planning to do most of the writing in the next few weeks and pass to doc team
[10:37] <mdz> tseng|work,ajmitch_: can you take responsibility for it?
[10:37] <tseng|work> done.
[10:37] <ajmitch_> ok
[10:37] <mdz> ok, great.  please get a name of someone on the doc team who can be responsible for that portion as well
[10:37] <Burgundavia> I can do it
[10:37] <tseng|work> we already have jerome and mary
[10:37] <ajmitch_> thanks Burgundavia :)
[10:37] <mdz> KubuntuRoadmap - amu and Riddell?
[10:37] <amu> mdz: ack
[10:37] <Riddell> sounds like my sort of thing
[10:37] <KaiL> < kubuntu testing
[10:38] <KaiL> ..if Riddell  doesn't have me on his ignorelist ;)
[10:38] <Riddell> KaiL: very welcome :)
[10:38] <Nafallo> mdz: I'll test the introdevdocs. when I'm MOTU, it worked :-).
[10:38] <mdz> LanguageSelector
[10:38] <Riddell> hunger: cool
[10:38] <pitti> I'm not really a GUI guy, maybe we have a pygtk hacker around here?
[10:38] <dholbach> Nafallo: :-)
[10:38] <_mvo_> mdz: I wanted to check if we can use the evo map here
[10:38] <ajmitch_> pitti: ogra? :)
[10:39] <mdz> we might be able to borrow jamesh
[10:39] <pitti> mdz: I'm interested, but I won't really have time for it, I'm afraid
[10:39] <allee> Riddell: me too
[10:39] <mdz> pitti: ack
[10:39] <seb128> _mvo_: pitti thinks than a map is not a good idea IIRC
[10:39] <Riddell> allee: excellent
[10:39] <ogra> mdz, ok for me 
[10:39] <dholbach> evo-map! :-)
[10:39] <pitti> seb128, _mvo_ : indeed, but we can discuss that later
[10:39] <_mvo_> mdz: please add me too
[10:39] <_mvo_> pitti: ok
[10:39] <seb128> me too
[10:40] <pitti> yay
[10:40] <mdz> JaneW: ok, mvo and ogra, with seb128
[10:40] <seb128> they will just break french if I'm not here
[10:40] <seb128> knowing these german guys :)
[10:40] <dholbach> hahahaaa
[10:40] <\sh> lol
[10:40] <ogra> heh
[10:40] <mdz> LanguageSupportPackages
[10:40] <ajmitch_> seb128: only because noone uses it :)
[10:40] <pitti> seb128: je suis desolat (or whatever)
[10:40] <Kamion> (I also think a map is risky conflation of concepts)
[10:40] <seb128> pitti: dsol ;)
[10:40] <ogra> heh
[10:40] <pitti> mdz: that's mainly a community thing
[10:41] <mdz> we need someone to coordinate it
[10:41] <\sh> _mvo_: i never saw a full german anyways ;)
[10:41] <pitti> mdz: mako would rock
[10:41] <mdz> perhaps mako can do that
[10:41] <mdz> JaneW: we want mako on that if we can get him
[10:41] <JaneW> ok
[10:41] <mdz> LinuxKernelRoadmap - fabbione & co.?
[10:41] <fabbione> mdz: we need at least one person more
[10:41] <ogra> zul ?
[10:41] <fabbione> otherwise we will not manage
[10:42] <fabbione> ogra: zul is already part of the team
[10:42] <ogra> ah
[10:42] <fabbione> one more on top of the actual team
[10:42] <mdz> who's interested in kernel development?
[10:42] <infinity> That which does not kill me..
[10:42] <infinity> mdz : Sign me up.
[10:42] <mdz> infinity: done
[10:43] <zul> hmm?
[10:43] <infinity> fabbione spent half of UDU trying to recruit me anyway.
[10:43] <fabbione> yeah.. come on.. one more?
[10:43] <mdz> LiveCDFeatures is a me thing, but I'm unlikely to have time for it
[10:43] <amu> hmm
[10:43] <zul> i think we need ppc more as well
[10:43] <mdz> fabbione: let's do some recruiting on the mailing lists, etc. afterward
[10:43] <fabbione> mdz: ok we will talk about it later.
[10:43] <mdz> amu: can you work on it?
[10:44] <amu> mdz: guess needs some deeper spec
[10:44] <mdz> fabbione: there is a kernel side to LiveCDFeatures as well (squashfs and unionfs)
[10:44] <amu> mdz: sure
[10:44] <mdz> amu: ok, we can talk about the spec
[10:44] <fabbione> mdz: unionfs is already there for all arches != ppc
[10:44] <amu> mdz: ok than
[10:44] <fabbione> mdz: i did that already.. squashfs needs to go in, if unionfs is crap
[10:44] <mdz> fabbione: squashfs looks like a big win if combined with unionfs
[10:44] <fabbione> mdz: that was my understanding
[10:44] <mdz> they are orthogonal
[10:45] <fabbione> mdz: ok. i will get it in asap
[10:45] <mdz> anyway, a discussion for later
[10:45] <fabbione> ok
[10:45] <zul> i can work on squashfs
[10:45] <fabbione> zul: go for it.
[10:45] <zul> it helps with my other interest for later 
[10:45] <fabbione> ok it's off topic for here
[10:45] <mdz> LiveCDPrompts doesn't have a proper spec yet
[10:45] <mdz> but when it does, the implementation will be trivial, and I can do it
[10:46] <mdz> JaneW: we need to nag smurfix, silbs and sabdfl and get a consensus on whether and how we should change the questions
[10:46] <JaneW> ok...
[10:46] <mdz> Mono - tseng & ajmitch?
[10:46] <ajmitch_> mdz: yes
[10:46] <tseng|work> yes.
[10:46] <ajmitch_> and ogra, if he wants
[10:46] <ogra> mdz, and m
[10:46] <Kamion> I'll need to be involved with at least merging debian-cd changes in LiveCDPrompt
[10:46] <tseng|work> we can discuss later
[10:46] <Kamion> +s
[10:47] <mdz> Kamion: agreed
[10:47] <tseng|work> but im all over it
[10:47] <ogra> mdz, i took the amd64 part for mono since friday
[10:47] <mdz> NetworkAuthentication (this is NIS, LDAP, etc.) - doko and jammcq worked on the spec
[10:47] <mdz> doko: can you own it?
[10:48] <infinity> Any spec that specifically names nscd scares me.
[10:48] <doko> mdz: yes
[10:48] <mdz> ok
[10:48] <infinity> mdz : Sign me up for the Win32 parts of that spec, though.
[10:48] <mdz> OEMRescue
[10:48] <mdz> infinity: agreed
[10:49] <mdz> OEMRescue was spec'd by Kamion and Mithrandir
[10:49] <mdz> Kamion: can Mithrandir run with it without much interaction from you?
[10:49] <Kamion> OEMRescue should be the same people as OEMInstaller, at least at first, I think
[10:49] <Kamion> mdz: yes
[10:49] <mdz> ok, sounds good
[10:49] <Kamion> we were on the same page there
[10:49] <mdz> PDASupport needs love
[10:50] <Burgundavia> I can do testing
[10:50] <mdz> I think it needs a more in-depth spec, naming specific devices we will seek to support
[10:50] <mdz> otherwise it is handwavy
[10:50] <mdz> specific devices, and specific functionality
[10:50] <tim1> small question, hope it fits in -devel: am I supposed to use malone or bugzilla to report bugs in breezy right now?
[10:50] <doko> mdz: OpenOffice2 is missing from the list
[10:51] <mdz> tim1: wrong channel; we are having a meeting right now
[10:51] <thom> tim1: wrong channel
[10:51] <tim1> damn, wrong chan, sorry
[10:51] <mdz> doko: please add the DistroSpecification tag to it
[10:51] <mdz> doko: you and dholbach will own it?
[10:51] <thom> mdz: i'm happy to flesh the spec out for pdasupport and research what's viable; i can't actually drive it since i have no hardware
[10:51] <dholbach> erm, i don't think i'll have time for OOo
[10:52] <dholbach> but somebody contacted me already to form an OO.o team
[10:52] <mdz> who can back up doko on ooo2?
[10:52] <doko> mdz: I'd like to see haggai there
[10:53] <mdz> doko: that's not a simple matter; let's discuss it later
[10:53] <mdz> PackageDependencyManagement - mvo, can you take it?
[10:53] <mvo> mdz: yep
[10:53] <mdz> great
[10:54] <mdz> for PackageSelection, Kamion has done most of the work for the seed change bit already
[10:55] <mvo> mdz: there are some open issues for the packageing system that I would like to evaluate
[10:55] <mdz> yes, there is more to discuss there
[10:55] <mdz> but we will probably not nail it down for Breezy
[10:55] <mdz> I'll review it
[10:55] <mvo> mdz: ok, thanks
[10:55] <mdz> PowerManagementConfiguration ought to be high priority; I'll fix that
[10:56] <mdz> ogra: can you continue with that?
[10:56] <ogra> i'll do the gui part, mjg59 the backend
[10:56] <mdz> sounds good
[10:56] <ogra> just waiting for new HAL love
[10:56] <mdz> I think the backend is already there
[10:56] <KaiL> who doesn the kde frontend for that? kdelaptopdeamon is imho totally useless..
[10:56] <ogra> yep
[10:56] <mdz> KaiL: good call
[10:56] <thom> i'll help on infrastructure/backend for PMC
[10:56] <daniels> it's an upstream thing, think it's more or less abandoned upstream
[10:56] <daniels> it's in kdeutils, IIRC
[10:56] <mdz> who can do a python kde frontend?
[10:57] <ogra> \sh ?
[10:57] <KaiL> daniels: no, they only depend on having an akku
[10:57] <KaiL> so no chance on desktops :(
[10:57] <\sh> mvo is informed
[10:57] <mdz> ok
[10:57] <Riddell> I should be able to (or delegate if not)
[10:57] <\sh> for python apt ;)
[10:57] <Echylo> hmm some one is logging this btw? I gtg
[10:57] <ogra> \sh, thats powermanagement
[10:57] <mdz> PowerSavingMode is very much Juan's project, and I don't think he's here
[10:57] <ogra> Echylo, the logbot
[10:57] <dholbach> Echylo: people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
[10:58] <Echylo> owk thanks :)
[10:58] <thom> \sh: kde front end to work with hal/similar to gnome-power.sf.net
[10:58] <\sh> [22:56]  <mdz> who can do a python kde frontend?
[10:58] <\sh> [22:57]  <ogra> \sh ?
[10:58] <mdz> ProprietaryDrivers is primarily a community/process issue
[10:58] <ogra> \sh, yep
[10:58] <mdz> \sh: I meant that in the context of PowerManagementConfiguration
[10:58] <\sh> thom: oh...yeah...let me see what i can do...
[10:58] <dholbach> \sh: for PowerManagement :-)
[10:58] <ogra> \sh, that was a questionmark
[10:58] <ogra> ;)
[10:58] <\sh> mdz: i will volunteer :) 
[10:58] <\sh> mdz: kde is not the problem ;)
[10:59] <mdz> JaneW: ProprietaryDrivers already has tasks divided for daniels and jdub
[10:59] <daniels> mdz: powersavingmode is largely crack
[10:59] <daniels> i have items out of proprietarydrivers to go talk to upstream
[10:59] <Nafallo> I'd like learning-by-doing on the powerstuff :-)
[10:59] <afranke> mdz: two hours have gone by
[11:00] <mdz> ReleaseCycle is mine; Kamion and I worked it out and I need to publish it
[11:00] <pitti> can we finish the medium tasks?
[11:00] <\sh> ogra: u are the HAL guru? :)
[11:00] <mdz> we have only 7 more medium tasks to go
[11:00] <mdz> let's try to finish
[11:00] <mdz> ServerInstallation
[11:00] <sladen> afranke: that's why there's 28 hours in a day!
[11:00] <ogra> \sh, nah...
[11:00] <mdz> ServerInstallation doesn't have a spec yet
[11:00] <afranke> ;)
[11:00] <mdz> SoundEvents
[11:00] <ogra> \sh, i just know a bit of it
[11:00] <infinity> ServerInstallation is all over the place... I think it needs some review/love from thom/me, neither of whom were at the BoF.
[11:00] <pitti> \sh: I know a bit of it
[11:01] <mdz> infinity: you and AndyFitz?
[11:01] <\sh> pitti: ok I will peek and poke you :)
[11:01] <pitti> \sh: sure, please do
[11:01] <infinity> mdz : SoundEvents, I'm happy owning the packaging fixes, I /can/ own the sound engineering (I've done enough of it in my time), but it's probably better to not pay a programmer to do that bit. :)
[11:01] <mdz> infinity: I think Andy can help with that
[11:01] <thom> mdz: I'll own ServerInstallation to the point of getting a spec, and then lets see from there?
[11:01] <mdz> if not, it'll be a bounty sort of item
[11:02] <infinity> mdz : Andy knows nothing of sound engineering, afaict.
[11:02] <mdz> thom: ok, you and infinity see if you can work out the spec, and we'll go from there
[11:02] <mdz> ThinClientSecurity I don't think we will have time for in the Breezy cycle
[11:02] <mdz> jammcq: what do you think?
[11:02] <infinity> mdz : I'll spec out sound bounties later.
[11:03] <jammcq> mdz: that's my thoughts too
[11:03] <mdz> unless someone can own it independently, without it taking resources away from ThinClientIntegration, I think it has to wait
[11:03] <mdz> ok
[11:03] <mdz> ThirdPartyVendorSoftware
[11:03] <jbailey> I'm interested in the LSB side of TPVS, and also because of the support/certification side.
[11:03] <ogra> jdub
[11:03] <mdz> doesn't have a spec
[11:03] <ogra> its jdubs list of companys to contact
[11:04] <mdz> not a development project, at any rate
[11:04] <ogra> nope
[11:04] <mdz> USplash
[11:04] <mdz> everyone's favorite feature
[11:04] <daniels> horay!
[11:04] <mpt> yay
[11:04] <sladen> mmm
[11:04] <jbailey> usplash and early userspace are related.
[11:04] <ogra> heh
[11:04] <daniels> sladen said he should have finished code by the end of UDU
[11:04] <JaneW> mdz: must we remove from our list or keep tracking? -TPVS...
[11:04] <sladen> and bootlogd
[11:04] <mdz> JaneW: I removed the tag in the wiki
[11:04] <mdz> JaneW: and removed from my list
[11:05] <thom> USplash also interacts to some extent with InitProcess
[11:05] <mdz> daniels,sladen: who is going to own it?
[11:05] <mdz> can we make it happen this time around?
[11:05] <sladen> usplash as we need it now is somewhat different to the usplash envisioned 9months ago
[11:05] <mdz> we need a code drop in breezy _very_ early, or it is not going to happen
[11:06] <^rob^> heya all, are there logs anywhere for those of us that were busy?
[11:06] <sladen> I hope so.  users and reviewers are starting to notice the lack of the 'feature' since they can't find much else to fault...
[11:06] <mdz> ^rob^: we're just finishing up, and yes, in the usual place
[11:06] <dholbach> ^rob^: people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
[11:06] <^rob^> thanks
[11:06] <fabbione> they will be updated in 20 minutes
[11:07] <amu> i'm happy to help with tests
[11:07] <fabbione> ^rob^: ^^
[11:07] <daniels> mdz: since someone else is doing the code, me owning it seems a bit perverse, but I'm more than happy to second it
[11:07] <JaneW> dholbach: I hope it's going to complete the log sometime soon, sitting at 10:19...
[11:08] <JaneW> fabbione: oic thanks
[11:09] <fabbione> JaneW: they are updated once every hour, but remember that irc logs can be incomplete if the net is not stable
[11:09] <JaneW> fabbione: don;t say that - I need them!
[11:09] <pitti> JaneW: I have a complete log, if necessary
[11:09] <afranke> JaneW: if needed, I record the session
[11:09] <thom> i think mdz just dropped off the net, btw
[11:10] <\sh> JaneW: i have a complete log if u r in need of it :)
[11:10] <mdz> I'm back
[11:10] <pitti> ah
[11:10] <Simira> hehe
[11:10] <mdz> UniverseSecurity
[11:10] <pitti> that's an ongoing process. I'll take responsibility for coordination; the real work will be done by astharot, Nafallo, and tseng, I suppose
[11:10] <ajmitch_> mdz: tseng & myself
[11:10] <Nafallo> mdz: I'm on it :-)
[11:10] <mdz> this is a community/team-building exercise, rather than a development project, right?
[11:10] <pitti> yes
[11:10] <mdz> ok
[11:10] <ogra> yup
[11:10] <mdz> JaneW: we won't track UniverseSecurity as a feature goal
[11:10] <dholbach> teams++ :-)
[11:11] <ajmitch_> ongoing, neverending hacking :)
[11:11] <mdz> the last MediumPriority goal is buntu
[11:11] <mdz> which is Ubuntu for embedded systems
[11:11] <ogra> happy tester for ipaq here
[11:11] <zul> i think i can help if i have the time
[11:11] <infinity> (It's actually two specs in one)
[11:11] <mdz> it's a large and multifaceted project which needs a dedicated owner
[11:11] <fabbione> mdz: we might need a specific kernel flavour for that
[11:11] <daniels> i believe buntu depends on a chunk of xroadmap
[11:11] <\sh> .oO(manfred holstein, but he's working for novell right now :()
[11:11] <mdz> fabbione: possibly, but perhaps not
[11:11] <ogra> fabbione, and a special bootloader
[11:12] <infinity> I'm very interested in the teeny-tiny embedded half of the spec, and getting it working on actual embedded CPUs.
[11:12] <mdz> if no one steps up to fill that role, we probably won't be able to do it for Breezy
[11:12] <fabbione> mdz: it depends.. we will need to investigate that
[11:12] <mdz> infinity: can you own it?
[11:12] <infinity> I'm not sure it's realistic to make that spec a breezy goal.
[11:12] <zul> er...ill help
[11:12] <ogra> infinity++
[11:12] <infinity> mdz : I'll own the second half of the spec.  Find someone else for the first half. :)
[11:12] <thom> mdz: i think the spec needs a lot more work, tbh
[11:12] <Nafallo> infinity+
[11:12] <infinity> mdz : And, what thom said.
[11:12] <mdz> infinity: the first half belongs somewhere else; buntu has always been about embedded
[11:13] <jbailey> I'd be interested in helping flush out the spec a bit more and exploring things like using uclibc.
[11:13] <mdz> infinity: please move that into a separate spec, and start to flesh out the embedded piece
[11:13] <sladen> every embedded device needs a specific bootloader+hackery+kernel options.  it's probably more about /enabling/ people to do that
[11:13] <mdz> jbailey: cool
[11:13] <thom> i'm happy to own it or work with infinity and/or jbailey to fleesh out the spec and drive it
[11:13] <infinity> thom : I love you.
[11:13] <ogra> sladen, wise words
[11:13] <dholbach> oh, how nice :-)
[11:13] <dholbach> what about FindingPackages? :-)
[11:13] <infinity> mdz : SO, make that me, thom, and jbailey. :0
[11:14] <mdz> infinity: let's get some specific use cases into it, like "I want to run Ubuntu on my Soekris gateway", "I want to run Ubuntu on my Zaurus", etc.
[11:14] <mdz> and with that, I think we need to adjourn
[11:14] <mdz> workrave is incredibly upset with me
[11:14] <pitti> phew
[11:14] <dholbach> mdz: hahahaha
[11:14] <dholbach> :-)
[11:14] <mdz> let's follow up on the list as necessary
[11:14] <fabbione> mdz: want to change workrave with my wife? :P
[11:15] <ogra> lol
[11:15] <Nafallo> fabbione: lol
[11:15] <ajmitch_> dholbach: FindingPackages - we all know that's mvo :)
[11:15] <pitti> fabbione: she'll already be asleep, won't she?
[11:15] <mdz> for those of you who showed up because you were interestetd in an item we didn't have time to discuss, please mail me
[11:15] <infinity> We need a workrave extension that tells me to "go back to bed, you damned fool".
[11:15] <mdz> mdz@ubuntu.com
[11:15] <fabbione> pitti: she is...
[11:15] <pitti> dholbach: apt-cache search, kthxbye
[11:15] <pitti> ;)
[11:15] <Kamion> will we have a followup meeting about the low priority items, or just punt on those?
[11:15] <mdz> fabbione: does she know you offered her? ;-)
[11:15] <ogra> heh
[11:15] <fabbione> ehehe
[11:16] <ajmitch_> pitti: you're not following the CommandLineDisintegration spec there :)
[11:16] <mdz> Kamion: I don't want to have to get everyone together at once again; it's a big strain
[11:16] <mdz> maybe we can break it into chunks and have some smaller meetings
[11:16] <mdz> we 'll see
[11:16] <ogra> fabbione, for a jumping sheep on the desktop
[11:16] <Kamion> not that I'm incredibly enthusiastic about another marathon meeting, certainly
[11:16] <mdz> but for now, thanks everyone, and good time-of-day
[11:16] <\sh> well, last cup of coffee is waiting..
[11:16] <fabbione> mdz: thanks
[11:16] <dholbach> mdz: thank you
[11:16] <mvo> mdz: thanks!
[11:16] <thom> mdz: thanks
[11:16] <pitti> good night everyone then, thanks for the meeting
[11:16] <whiprush> The Fridge is all set, if anyone is asking. :)
[11:16] <ogra> mdz, thanks :)
[11:16] <seb128> thanks
[11:16] <amu> mvo: cheers
[11:16] <\sh> mdz: thx...good moderating i must say
[11:17] <pitti> whiprush: can someone please enlight me what the fridge is?
[11:17] <thom> whiprush: i'll have a cold beer, please
[11:17] <mvo> amu: :)
[11:17] <dholbach> thom++ :-)
[11:17] <seb128> me too!!
[11:17] <infinity> mdz, JaneW : Will we see some consise notes about how much we signed up for in our moments of madness?
[11:17] <mvo> beer++
[11:17] <ajmitch_> whiprush: you've got it all up & running?
[11:17] <Seveas> pitti, it's where you get beer from :)
[11:17] <whiprush> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/TheFridge
[11:17] <dholbach> VB!!! :-)
[11:17] <ogra> yeah
[11:17] <ajmitch_> ogra: pass one this way :)
[11:17] <ogra> heh
[11:17] <Nafallo> infinity++
[11:18] <pitti> Seveas: I know the English word, but although my fridge certainly has a processor, it certainly doesn't run ubuntu
[11:18] <\sh> ogra: can u come to kerpen and pass me one pls? ,-)
[11:18] <dholbach> thom, infinity: come one, it's not that bad, it really isnt
[11:18] <thom> it really, really is
[11:18] <Nafallo> pitti: yet ;-)
[11:18] <ajmitch_> infinity: at least it's not fosters
[11:18] <ogra> thom, the image or the beer `
[11:18] <ogra> ?
[11:18] <infinity> ajmitch_ : Or FourX.
[11:18] <pitti> Nafallo: I tried to insert the CD, but the drive is apparently broken
[11:18] <daniels> infinity: 'fourex'
[11:18] <Nafallo> pitti: hehe, usb? :-)
[11:19] <thom> ogra: beer
[11:19] <infinity> daniels : Bah, how can there be an accepted spelling of a pronounciation.  'XXXX' then. :)
[11:19] <pitti> Nafallo: I have the feeling that my fridge is out of date...
[11:19] <ogra> heh
[11:19] <Nafallo> pitti: hehe
[11:19] <\sh> pitti: well..u forgot to update your CM
[11:19] <pitti> okay guys, good night and sleep well
[11:19] <infinity> pitti : 'night.
[11:19] <dholbach> <- dog walk
[11:19] <fabbione> night
[11:19] <daniels> mdz, Kamion: thanks
[11:19] <seb128> pitti: night :)
[11:19] <ajmitch_> night pitti 
[11:19] <fabbione> infinity: /j #ubuntu-kernel
[11:19] <afranke> night pitti
[11:19] <Amaranth> hehe, have any aussies seen the american fosters commercials?
[11:19] <daniels> infinity: doooooomed (#u-k)
[11:20] <daniels> Amaranth: no, but I've seen the UK ones
[11:20] <Amaranth> fosters - australia for beer ;)
[11:20] <infinity> daniels : It could be worse, I could have signed up to join the kernel tea--- oh, fuck.
[11:20] <Amaranth> err, australian
[11:20] <KaiL> daniels: you are also the one for XorgAutoconf?
[11:20] <daniels> KaiL: very much so
[11:21] <Nafallo> infinity: lol
[11:21] <daniels> Amaranth: oh yes, I've heard of those.
[11:21] <nufan> Is the meeeting over then?
[11:21] <Nafallo> nufan: mais oui :-)
[11:21] <Amaranth> yeah
[11:21] <KaiL> I thought about some preconfig for multi-button-mice..
[11:21] <Amaranth> btw, the MenuEditor spec can be solved by someone putting smeg in universe :)
[11:21] <Nafallo> KaiL: is there a spec for that? :-)
[11:21] <afranke> Nafallo: Francais ?
[11:22] <KaiL> Nafallo: no ;)
[11:22] <nufan> Is add/remove programs going to become useful in Breezy?
[11:22] <Nafallo> afranke: suedois :-)
[11:22] <KaiL> and it's also some dirty hack, as there's no way to detect the button number...
[11:22] <JaneW> damn lagg
[11:22] <daniels> KaiL: there's been an open bug for months; please add to that (preferably with patches) if you have anything
[11:22] <JaneW> I missed the end of the meeting
[11:22] <daniels> KaiL: but questions are a big no-no.  you don't get to ask.
[11:22] <JaneW> yes I am going to try to tabulate who said they;d do what
[11:22] <afranke> JaneW: do you wish me to send you the log
[11:23] <JaneW> yes please
[11:23] <afranke> okay
[11:23] <JaneW> I need it because I missed chunks of the live action due to lag
[11:23] <afranke> guess it's janew@ubuntu.com
[11:23] <JaneW> followed by firefox crashing
[11:23] <JaneW> and then open office
[11:23] <afranke> using Ubuntu ;) ?
[11:23] <JaneW> something not happy here today
[11:23] <Nafallo> JaneW: ehm, get an irc-client? ;-)
[11:23] <JaneW> yes, I changed over recently
[11:24] <infinity> JaneW : Did you let someone "technical" within 30 feet of your computer recently?
[11:24] <JaneW> infinity: yes just today as coincidence would have it
[11:24] <JaneW> *sighe*
[11:24] <infinity> JaneW : Well, you know who to blame, then.
[11:24] <JaneW> but it was Gus!
[11:26] <afranke> JaneW: log sent :-D
[11:26] <JaneW> thanks :)
[11:26] <afranke> your welcome
[11:26] <Kamion> mdz: hm, we missed MountingHDDFilesystems
[11:27] <JaneW> afranke: did you send it to janew, the *W* is very important...
[11:27] <afranke> Kamion: too late, mouahahaAHAHAHA !
[11:27] <Nafallo> :-/
[11:27] <afranke> From: Alexandre FRANKE <alexandre.franke@gmail.com>Reply-To: Alexandre FRANKE <alexandre.franke@gmail.com>To: janew@ubuntu.comDate: May 9, 2005 11:25 PMSubject: Meeting log
[11:28] <Kamion> afranke: erm ... whatever :)
[11:28] <ajmitch_> Nafallo: I think it was rolled into network magic, rather than mentioned separately
[11:28] <afranke> Kamion: anyway, seems that mdz has left
[11:29] <Nafallo> ajmitch_: that's what I thought. and WPA wasn't mentioned cause of ISPAuth not being discussed?
[11:29] <Kamion> afranke: he's still in this channel, and he generally reads scrollback.
[11:29] <sladen> Kamion: funkiness to cope with LDM partition tables/mounting/detection should probably go in there as it'll crope up on newer/"enterprise" w2k machines
[11:29] <Kamion> afranke: I wasn't expecting him to be around right now
[11:29] <afranke> Kamion: k
[11:29] <JaneW> afranke: thanks got it
[11:29] <afranke> de nada
[11:29] <Kamion> sladen: please elaborate in the outstanding issues section of the spec
[11:30] <Kamion> ideally with some clues as to how one deals with LDM from Linux
[11:30] <sladen> Kamion: yeah, the current documentation is somewhat lacking even if the code has been there for last few years
[11:31] <afranke> maybe I should eat someday
[11:31] <afranke> ;)
[11:31] <infinity> Alright, well I'm off to go wake up, I guess.  I doubt I can get back to bed, as much as I'd like to. :)
[11:32] <afranke> bye all, cya soon
[11:32] <Nafallo> infinity: if you do, you'll dream about the kernel ;-)
[11:32] <Nafallo> afranke: au revoir :-)
[11:32] <ggross> bye
[11:32] <sivang_away> JaneW: night!
[11:32] <sivang_away> night all!
[11:33] <afranke> Nafallo:  la prochaine alors
[11:33] <ogra> night JaneW 
[11:33] <JaneW> I'll finish my table tomorrow, and mail/wiki it then
[11:33] <ajmitch_> night JaneW 
[11:33] <Nafallo> JaneW, sivang_away: nighie :-)
[11:33] <infinity> JaneW : Thanks.. Night.
[11:33] <JaneW> night all
[11:33] <JaneW> thanks for getting up early Aussie folk...
[11:34] <Nafallo> hmm, prochaine?
[11:34] <JanC> "prochaine" meens "next"
[11:34] <JanC> *means*
[11:34] <JanC> :)
[11:34] <Nafallo> JanC: ahh, thanx :-)
[11:36] <KaiL> daniels: I've added some first thoughts to that bug
[11:38] <JanC> Nafallo : like in "la semaine prochaine" = "next week"  :)
[11:39] <Nafallo> JanC: yepp, grepped that :-)
[11:40] <JanC> (french is official second language over here)
[11:40] <Nafallo> JanC: .ca? :-)
[11:41] <JanC> .be
[11:41] <JaneW> bon nuit
[11:41] <JanC> French is either first or second language for people in Belgium
[11:41] <Nafallo> JaneW: bon nuit Jane :-)
[11:42] <JanC> it's "bonne nuit"
[11:42] <JanC> the night is female in French  :)
[11:43] <JanC> in fact, male/female is my worst problem with French  :)
[11:44] <JanC> with French language, not with French people  ;-)
[11:44] <Nafallo> hehe
[11:44] <\sh> un or une, le or la ;)
[11:45] <Nafallo> du or de la ;-)
[11:45] <\sh> du is male ;)
[11:46] <Nafallo> \sh: oui (de+le) :-)
[11:46] <\sh> Nafallo: some things i didn't forget ;) 
[11:46] <\sh> breakfast at the moulin rouge is one of the things ;)
[11:47] <\sh> and the indian area near gare du nord 
[11:48] <JanC> I've been in Paris only once, when I was 15 or something like that...
[11:48] <JanC> (school trip)
[11:49] <\sh> JanC: i was many times in paris :) and I climbed up the stairs of the tower ;) amazing feeling :)
[11:49] <JanC> I climbed the tower too
[11:50] <JanC> we did all the touristic stuff with school
[11:50] <\sh> but for now....g'night...job's waiting tomorrow morning :) 
[11:50] <Nafallo> \sh: night :-)
[11:51] <Nafallo> night all!
[11:59] <thom> hunger: way to lose half the topic
[11:59] <hunger> thom: Oh, sorry... that was all my IRC client listed.