[12:20] <Riddell>  /win 54
[12:20] <Riddell> hmm
[03:47] <daniels> kailta
[05:48] <Cybermagellan> hello all
[06:10] <Cybermagellan> I thought there was a meeting today
[06:11] <daniels> there was, 9 hours ago
[06:11] <Cybermagellan> I hate living in the US sometimes....and working
[06:12] <daniels> eh, it was 5am in .au time
[06:14] <Cybermagellan> I am in the US....did anyone take notes and post them somewhere?
[06:16] <daniels> there are logs at people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/
[04:12] <opi> Hi guys
[04:13] <ogra> hey opi, a bit early today ?
[04:13] <opi> ogra: I haven't sleep for 30h
[04:13] <ogra> 2h to go
[04:13] <opi> ogra: so I want to have a reminder
[04:13] <ogra> ah
[04:13] <opi> ogra: I'm kinda dizzy, so XChat will help me to renember :-)
[04:13] <opi> (this, and coffee)
[04:13] <ogra> i'll ping you if it starts
[04:13] <opi> thanks
[04:55] <opi> hi amu
[04:55] <amu> moin'
[04:56] <jiyuu0> the meeting is midnight my time here... 
[04:56] <opi> spooky
[04:56] <opi> we shouldn't call the ghoust of Windows95 then
[04:57] <jiyuu0> y that?
[04:58] <jiyuu0> been so long since i installed win95
[04:58] <opi> ;-) I guess that's good
[04:58] <opi> bad memories fades in time
[04:58] <jiyuu0> classic
[05:00] <Simira> hehe
[05:00] <Simira> it's meeting in one hour, isn't it?
[05:00] <opi> emil@rohan:~ $ uptime
[05:00] <opi>  17:04:03 up 32 days -- Hoary fits servers, it seems :-)
[05:01] <jiyuu0> Simira, yes.. 1 more hour
[05:01] <jiyuu0> what's the agenda?
[05:01] <opi> checkout Wiki
[05:03] <jiyuu0> nothing much stated there
[05:03] <tritium> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[05:03] <amu> hey opi 
[05:03] <jiyuu0> just been there
[05:04] <opi> hi amu, our beloved Kubuntu hacker :-)
[05:04] <opi> jiyuu0: consider this breezy-cc-kickoff :-)
[05:05] <amu> kubuntu ? never heard about it ;)
[05:05] <smurfix> jiyuu0: Three items should be enough, any one of these can easily fill two hours ...
[05:05] <jiyuu0> ic... 
[05:05] <jiyuu0> ok... i'll stay and watch
[05:06] <opi> amu: first phase. denaial. 
[05:06] <opi> :P
[05:14] <JaneW> I have to go now, I'll read the meeting logs after, enjoy
[05:33] <\sh> hey KaiL 
[05:33] <KaiL> hi \sh 
[05:53] <amu> moin \sh 
[05:55] <\sh> hey amu :) 
[05:58] <siretart> hi folks :)
[05:58] <PtitOurs> hi
[05:58] <siretart> the meeting should begin in 2 minutes, right?
[05:59] <Kamion> siretart: yes
[05:59] <dholbach> hey
[05:59] <KaiL> no, in 1 :)
[05:59] <siretart> great! :)
[05:59] <siretart> I managed to find some time to attend at least the beginning (about 45min) of this meeting :)
[05:59] <mako> greetings all
[05:59] <\sh> hmmm..strange position for me now
[05:59] <ogra> yay, mako
[06:00] <mako> let me reorder the agenda
[06:00] <mako> and get a few things in order first
[06:00] <afranke> hi all
[06:00] <mako> note from the last meeting, some stuff for the irc meeting
[06:00] <mako> so give me 3-4 minutes
[06:01] <ogra> hard even
[06:01] <ogra> hey sabdfl 
[06:01] <sabdfl> hi all
[06:01] <pitti> hey sabdfl 
[06:01] <whiprush> hey everyone
[06:01] <sabdfl> mako's just going to get this a little organised then give us the signal to start
[06:01] <\sh> take time..my back is paining and now i'm laying with my laptop on my hips...bad for my neck :(
[06:01] <dholbach> hey sabdfl, hey whiprush 
[06:02] <opi> re
[06:02] <opi> ufff
[06:02] <opi> I made it
[06:02] <ogra> opi, ping ;)
[06:02] <opi> ogra, :-)
[06:02] <opi> ogra, I had to go back to the office, because I toke the a CD someone else wanted. Had to run to the tramp.
[06:03] <sabdfl> everybody recovered from the UduFlu?
[06:03] <mdz> I dodged that bullet
[06:03] <pitti> I had already a cold when I came to Sydney, I didn't want another one :-)
[06:03] <opi> I wasn't there ;-)
[06:03] <Alessio> i''m here
[06:04] <mako> alright everyone
[06:04] <mako> elmo, Kamion, sabdfl: around?
[06:04] <mdz> sabdfl is here
[06:04] <sabdfl> yup
[06:05] <Kamion> here
[06:05] <elmo> yah
[06:05] <mako> killer
[06:05] <mako> there was a request to handle the new members first
[06:05] <mako> i don't see a problem with that
[06:05] <sabdfl> go ahead
[06:06] <mako> many of these people showed up at the last meeting, where i was the only cc member so couldn't approve them
[06:06] <mako> so they may or may not be here this time
[06:06] <mako> that can be noted as we go through the list
[06:06] <mako> let's work down the list
[06:06] <mako> JohnnyMast, you around?
[06:06] <sabdfl> maybe we should start by asking folks who are here, who are on the list, to say aye (and give their full names)
[06:07] <ogra> good idea
[06:07] <tritium> aye, Michael Rimbert
[06:07] <\sh> aye, Stephan Hermann
[06:07] <afranke> can you explain briefly what this list is?
[06:07] <mako> afranke: it's http://www.ubuntu.com/wiki/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[06:07] <mdz> afranke: people applying for Ubuntu membership
[06:07] <afranke> k thx
[06:07] <mako> afranke: people who want to become ubuntu members
[06:08] <pitti> astharot: Gerardo di Giacomo, please ping
[06:08] <astharot> ping :)
[06:09] <mako> alright, good to know
[06:09] <mako> it still makes sense to go through the list
[06:09] <mako> i think
[06:09] <Alessio> when we start?
[06:09] <mako> Alessio: we've started
[06:09] <Alessio> ops
[06:09] <Kamion> Alessio: see scrollback
[06:09] <mako> johnny mast? around?
[06:09] <Alessio> sorry
[06:10] <mako> for the record, i think johnny needs to document his work on ubuntu, it's absolutely unclear from the page
[06:10] <sabdfl> ok
[06:10] <sabdfl> i make it 7 fols here
[06:10] <mako> 7 fols?
[06:10] <opi> ;-)
[06:10] <dholbach> folks?
[06:10] <Seveas> or fools :)
[06:10] <\sh> freud? ,-)
[06:11] <siretart> lol
[06:11] <ogra> heh
[06:11] <sabdfl> erk
[06:11] <Kamion> I don't see any work on Ubuntu from Johnny, having followed up the links
[06:11] <mako> sabdfl: right, plus a few who were here for the last meeting
[06:11] <rave> here i am
[06:11] <Kamion> so we should probably ask him to come back when that's clarified
[06:11] <sabdfl> let's start with the guys who are here now, then the fol(k)s who were here last time
[06:11] <rave> ask me now
[06:11] <sabdfl> rave: your name?
[06:11] <Kamion> rave: 17:10 < mako> for the record, i think johnny needs to document his work on ubuntu, it's absolutely unclear from the page
[06:11] <dholbach> rave is Johnny Mast
[06:11] <rave> Johnny :)
[06:12] <sabdfl> ok, let's start there
[06:12] <rave> well yes, thats true
[06:12] <sabdfl> rave: in considering you for membership we need some idea of the contribution you have made and your plans for Ubuntu
[06:12] <sabdfl> thats not clear from your page
[06:12] <mdke> is it too late to add names to the list?
[06:12] <mako> yeah, it doesn't mean you haven't been a helpful member of the community.. it just means we can't see it :)
[06:12] <sabdfl> would you update your page and come back in two weeks?
[06:13] <rave> hmm for sure, i just created the page as a quick impression
[06:13] <rave> with some links to my code and work
[06:13] <mako> rave: yeah, we need a little more before we grant membership
[06:13] <sabdfl> rave: membership covers *any* field of contribution, but it needs to be a fairly substantial chunk of work done and planned
[06:13] <mako> rave: in particular, your code and work on ubuntu
[06:13] <Kamion> might want to stick around and see what other folks who get approved have provided, as a guideline?
[06:13] <sabdfl> not just code though - support, bugs, docs, artwork
[06:13] <rave> well im coding 12 hours aday
[06:13] <sabdfl> ok, so focus there :-)
[06:13] <sabdfl> let's go on. siretart?
[06:14] <thegreedyturtle> as someone who's interested in becoming a memeber, what level of contributing do you look for in members?
[06:14] <sabdfl> ReinhardTartler
[06:14] <siretart> sabdfl: sure. im here :)
[06:14] <rave> :), i help ppl out in #ubuntu-nl (i try)
[06:14] <opi> rave, just write a good resume, and I'm sure CC will aprove you :-)
[06:14] <mako> sabdfl: lets come back to chris schieb after.. he was at the last meeting
[06:14] <ogra> sabdfl, siretart did a good bunch of motu work already
[06:14] <dholbach> siretart:  did ROCKing work in the MOTU transitions :-)
[06:14] <sabdfl> thegreedyturtle: "any substantial contribution and a manifesto describing vision for ubuntu going forward"
[06:14] <rave> tankz opi 
[06:14] <thegreedyturtle> thanks
[06:15] <Kamion> thegreedyturtle: the bar for membership isn't all that high compared to maintainership - basically a gut feeling that somebody's being useful in the specific context of Ubuntu (in addition to e.g. code written elsewhere)
[06:15] <mako> sabdfl: we should go through the full list this time because there are people that are not here this time that did come to a CC meeting at a different time
[06:15] <siretart> I intend to get my touched packages in hoary in shape for breezy, plus the packages I maintain in debian (2 at this time). 
[06:16] <siretart> In addition to that, I intend concentrate on the game related packages in universe
[06:16] <sabdfl> mako: let's start with the present people, then cover everyone else
[06:16] <dholbach> the GamesTeam! REJOICE!
[06:16] <ogra> yay
[06:16] <siretart> :)
[06:16] <sabdfl> siretart: thank you for your coding time! any other areas you have an interest in?
[06:17] <siretart> sabdfl: my personal interests are networking, network security and administration, since I admin a small internet cafe
[06:17] <siretart> http://chummers.net
[06:17] <dholbach> siretart: you never told us :-)
[06:17] <siretart> oh, how could I forget that ;)
[06:18] <ogra> btw, 7 uploads to hoary-changes from siretart looks like a reasonable contribution
[06:18] <mako> sounds great
[06:18] <sabdfl> kamion, mako?
[06:18] <Kamion> siretart's wiki page seems reasonable to me having followed up links, I'd ack
[06:18] <sabdfl> looks good to me, so that's a majority in the CC, counting mako
[06:19] <siretart> Yippie! :)
[06:19] <sabdfl> any objectsions, privmsg me :-)
[06:19] <sabdfl> none. ok, welcome aboard siretart
[06:19] <opi>  /m sabdfl no! no! no! ;-)
[06:19] <siretart> thanks all :)
[06:19] <\sh> grats siretart 
[06:19] <mako> Alessio: is here
[06:20] <sabdfl> mako, want to cover him next? nick?
[06:20] <Alessio> ya
[06:20] <mako> i dont think trulux is here. so alessio is next
[06:21] <diamond> hey folks. sorry for being late. didn't think i'd make this one at all, only put my name back in coz mako's mail said... etc
[06:21] <mako> Alessio has been active in the italian loco team.
[06:21] <sabdfl> Alessio: how would you describe the current status on the italian Loco team?
[06:21] <Alessio> my status?
[06:21] <Kamion> I have to admit to not being able to understand most of the links, but since a lot of them are translations that's probably a good thing :-)
[06:21] <Alessio> i'm ubuntitalia.org webmaster
[06:22] <Kamion> Alessio: Mark's also asking for how the team as a whole is getting on, I think
[06:22] <Alessio> and i have translate howto on wiki
[06:22] <mako> we all know there were issues in teh past
[06:22] <sabdfl> Alessio: how is the italian team coming together?
[06:22] <Alessio> i think that the team works
[06:23] <Alessio> the docs grows up
[06:23] <sabdfl> ok. is there a coordinated ubuntu translation team for italian yet?
[06:23] <Alessio> yes
[06:23] <sabdfl> who's involved there?
[06:23] <Alessio> mdke is the coordinator
[06:23] <sabdfl> cool! are you guys using rosetta at all?
[06:24] <Alessio> yes
[06:24] <mdke> yes
[06:24] <sabdfl> ok
[06:24] <sabdfl> Alessio: plans for future contribution? where would you like to see Ubuntu get to?
[06:25] <sabdfl> maybe we should ask everyone else here who is on the list to think up a few sentences describing their contribution, and plans going forward
[06:25] <Alessio> future for me is: help italian people to meet Ubuntu :)
[06:25] <mako> advocacy is important
[06:26] <sabdfl> do you guys hold regular advocacy meetings?
[06:26] <coastGNU> Alessio: Any plans for local team meetings and workshops?
[06:26] <Alessio> yes
[06:26] <Alessio> now is only a plan
[06:26] <mako> Alessio: where in particular are you?
[06:27] <Alessio> in italy?
[06:27] <mako> well, meetings can be come impracticle with a team as big as an italian team
[06:27] <Alessio> nera rimini/riccione
[06:27] <Alessio> *near
[06:27] <mako> cool
[06:27] <Alessio> ;)
[06:27] <mako> FWIW, alessio asked me and i told him to apply for membreship
[06:28] <mako> alessio and i have been in touch on a number of different things related to advocacy, translation, and ubuntu in italy for the last couple months
[06:28] <mako> and i'll be happy to see him as a member
[06:28] <Kamion> ok, fine by me
[06:28] <sabdfl> ok, me too
[06:28] <sabdfl> welcome aboard
[06:28] <mako> Alessio: welcome
[06:28] <sabdfl> who's next!
[06:28] <Alessio> thanks you ;)
[06:29] <\sh> Alessio: congrats :)
[06:29] <trulux> hi fellows
[06:29] <sabdfl> hey trulux
[06:29] <Alessio> thank you
[06:29] <sabdfl> whiprush?
[06:29] <whiprush> I'm here.
[06:29] <trulux> hey sabdfl 
[06:29] <jiyuu0> just read this... no wonder backports is so slow
[06:29] <jiyuu0> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=33307
[06:30] <mako> for the record, alessio said he had to go at 1630UTC :)
[06:30] <trulux> pitti: going to push a lot of stuff to the CVS, tomorrow I will get a new TFT monitor, so, I'll be able to test things more quickly
[06:30] <mako> good timing
[06:30] <dredg> we dare not speak of them by name. b*ckp*rts.
[06:30] <mdke> eugh
[06:30] <opi> dredg, f*k*p*ts
[06:30] <sabdfl> let's get to whiprush next
[06:30] <ogra> TheFridge !!
[06:31] <dholbach> yes :-)
[06:31] <dredg> crackports is also acceptable
[06:31] <whiprush> I think I met everyone at UDU.
[06:31] <Kamion> can somebody explain what TheFridge actually is? :-) jdub was very evasive
[06:31] <sabdfl> whiprush: thanks for making a solid contribution in sydney
[06:31] <whiprush> thanks for having me. :)
[06:31] <mako> Kamion: it's EVERYTHING
[06:31] <Kamion> ah, I see the udu.wiki web page is more useful now
[06:31] <ogra> Kamion, something you can pin your notes on with little magnets :)
[06:31] <mako> Kamion: it's a portal.. news.ubuntu.com with a goofier name
[06:31] <Lathiat> ogra: :)
[06:31] <pitti> mako: live, the universe, and the fridge?
[06:32] <ogra> yeah
[06:32] <mako> Kamion: but the name will change if i have anything to do with it.. not to news
[06:32] <dholbach> ogra: would you pass me another VB? :-)
[06:32] <ogra> lol
[06:32] <sabdfl> it's the only piece that didn't fit into the kitchen sink
[06:32] <mako> so anywya.. whiprush want to summarize your contributions and where you want to go
[06:32] <whiprush> sure.
[06:32] <whiprush> currently I haven't done much coding work, though long term plan is to be an MOTU, depending on my work cycles.
[06:33] <whiprush> My current goal for breezy is the fridge.
[06:33] <Kamion> so you're mostly in the advocacy camp at the moment?
[06:33] <whiprush> and having a lab for the ltsp gentlemen to test their stuff for breezy.
[06:33] <whiprush> yes.
[06:33] <Kamion> ok, cool
[06:33] <whiprush> I'm the "local ubuntu guy" at the university.
[06:33] <Kamion> what's take-up at the uni like?
[06:34] <sabdfl> whiprush: will you help us coordinate the ubuntu world tour and ubuntu nations?
[06:34] <whiprush> and there's about 4-5 strong loco guys here in detroit, we meet regularly and teach each other stuff, etc. etc.
[06:34] <whiprush> yes.
[06:34] <whiprush> we're kind of a subset of an existing lug so we meet fairly often
[06:34] <sabdfl> ok. that, and TheFridge, would be a great contribution
[06:34] <sabdfl> mako, kamion, elmo?
[06:34] <Kamion> http://ubuntu.secs.oakland.edu/ -> 403 Forbidden, hmm
[06:35] <whiprush> it doesn't serve anything
[06:35] <whiprush> that's just the address to the mirror
[06:35] <Kamion> ah, I was about to ask you what kind of bandwidth it churns out
[06:35] <mako> i'm happy with whiprush's contribution as qualification for membershi
[06:35] <elmo> this is for member? if so, ack
[06:35] <ogra> and btw, MOTU would be happy to see whiprush joining us :)
[06:35] <Kamion> but yeah, ack for member, chatting aside
[06:35] <sabdfl> ok, welcome aboard whiprush!
[06:35] <dholbach> woohoo!
[06:35] <mdz> whiprush: congratulations
[06:35] <whiprush> woo, thanks everyone.
[06:36] <pitti> congrats, whiprush 
[06:36] <sabdfl> next? astharot?
[06:36] <siretart> whiprush: grats!
[06:36] <\sh> applause for whiprush
[06:36] <KaiL> opi: impossible, try memtext ;)
[06:36] <astharot> I'm here
[06:36] <pitti> astharot supplies universe security updates at an amazing pace
[06:36] <sabdfl> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/GerardoDiGiacomo
[06:36] <siretart> well folks, sadly, but I have to leave now :( - see ya soon! bye!
[06:36] <sabdfl> astharot: is security your main focus and interest?
[06:36] <dholbach> bye siretart, see you!
[06:36] <ogra> ciao siretart 
[06:36] <pitti> and learned a lot
[06:37] <afranke> bye siretart
[06:37] <astharot> sabdfl: mainly yes...
[06:37] <sabdfl> cheers siretart and welcome
[06:37] <pitti> I'd like to see him as universe security MOTU
[06:37] <astharot> in this moment, yes :)
[06:37] <astharot> *at
[06:37] <elmo> I'm happy to ack him for maintainer, based on ubuntu-security
[06:37] <ogra> pitti++
[06:37] <sabdfl> elmo: tell the TB :-)
[06:38] <Kamion> the wiki page doesn't go much into Ubuntu specifics, but I'm certainly happy with pitti's recommendation; ack for member
[06:38] <sabdfl> astharot: what's zone-h all about?
[06:38] <mako> i'm not hugely familiar to his work but am happy to go off of his recommendations so far
[06:38] <astharot> sabdfl: what do you want to know about zone-h ?
[06:38] <Kamion> since we massively need universe security :-)
[06:38] <mako> membership++
[06:38] <ogra> Kamion+++
[06:38] <sabdfl> astharot: nothing
[06:39] <astharot> mako: check security-review archives... you'll find some security patches
[06:39] <sabdfl> ok, i'm happy on the membership front too - which is mako, kamion, elmo, me, a full house
[06:40] <mako> astharot: welcome
[06:40] <sabdfl> welcome aboard astharot!
[06:40] <astharot> thanks a lot guys ;)
[06:40] <ogra> yeah
[06:40] <dholbach> :-)
[06:40] <whiprush> yay!
[06:40] <sabdfl> astharot: i'm interested to hear about zone-h so please privmsg me about it
[06:40] <Lathiat> keep it up astharot :)
[06:40] <mako> alright
[06:40] <sabdfl> also, keen to hear if you think we should organise a full security audit of parts of universe
[06:40] <astharot> sabdfl: now?
[06:40] <Kamion> mm, ok, security-reviews@ is full of detail :-)
[06:41] <sabdfl> astharot: whenever suits you
[06:41] <sabdfl> next!
[06:41] <mako> robitaille: hey dude
[06:41] <mako> robitaille: you're up
[06:41] <robitaille> I'm here
[06:41] <mako> robitaille: want to give us the 2 setance version of your contributions so far
[06:41] <sabdfl> robitaille: first class web page - thank you!
[06:41] <robitaille> I have a background in system admin, and as such I have been trying to provide
[06:42] <ogra> bus loads of bugs and fixes ;)
[06:42] <sabdfl> it very clearly states the work you've been involved in and makes it easy for us to form an opinion
[06:42] <robitaille> support on both the mailing list, a bit on the IRC channel and doing bug triage
[06:42] <sabdfl> we should use this one as an example of how to do it really well
[06:42] <mako> me agrees with sabdfl on that one
[06:43] <mako> robitaille has also posted loads of good information on sounder
[06:43] <robitaille> And recently I have been told that I should look in The Fridge
[06:43] <mako> links to press, etc
[06:43] <ogra> and to ubuntu-users
[06:43] <mako> robitaille: dude, quite saying that name. it's gotta change :)
[06:43] <mako> robitaille: but yes, you should :)
[06:43] <whiprush> Fridge!
[06:43] <ogra> mako, really ?
[06:43] <sabdfl> whiprush is a bot now
[06:43] <robitaille> I like that name!  But I sent jdub  as bunch of other names
[06:43] <mako> robitaille: awesome
[06:43] <Kamion> on a scattergun check, the bug report contributions seem very frequent and useful to me
[06:44] <sabdfl> robitaille: have you been in touch with bradb at all?
[06:44] <Kamion> I'm impressed
[06:44] <robitaille> no
[06:44] <sabdfl> robitaille: i'm sure he would like to hear your suggestions for malone
[06:44] <mako> for the record, i'd be happy to approve robitaille just on his support and community activity alone
[06:44] <ogra> yay
[06:44] <mako> and ai am
[06:44] <dholbach> robitaille: congratulations! :-)
[06:44] <mako> so yeah, that's my vote
[06:45] <sabdfl> kamion, elmo?
[06:45] <Kamion> robitaille++
[06:45] <sabdfl> i'm thrilled to say +1 from me too
[06:45] <Kamion> (people with energy)++ too ;-)
[06:45] <robitaille> thanks guys!
[06:45] <sabdfl> so that's a majority and welcome aboard!
[06:45] <\sh> grats robitaille 
[06:45] <mako> \sh: you're up
[06:46] <sabdfl> robitaille: you've set an excellent pace for others to follow, i really appreciate it, thank you!
[06:46] <\sh> mako: i saw it coming :)
[06:46] <mako> robitaille: welcome, thanks for all
[06:46] <mako> \sh: you know the routine
[06:46] <ogra> \sh, does a lot for the kubuntu side of the world
[06:46] <\sh> well...for sure...
[06:47] <ogra> i think amu or mvo could say more here....
[06:47] <\sh> ok..somethin about me: old linux guy 11 years now...working for several other distris and quite interessted in OSS at all
[06:47] <sabdfl> \sh: tell me a little about your interest in SIP and VoIP?
[06:47] <Riddell> \sh: is promising us pykde packages, which would be excellent
[06:47] <\sh> sabdfl: yes, I'm in IM communications like jabber/xmpp or SIP
[06:48] <\sh> sabdfl: right now, I'm helping thom in his SER packaging and configuration for ubuntu
[06:48] <sabdfl> \sh: ShtoomVoip would be awesome if we could get it out of the box on Breezy
[06:48] <\sh> sabdfl: running at least my jabber servers on ubuntu :) and trying to work on pyqt/pykde stuff with mvo
[06:48] <Lathiat> yes, shtoom is good, altho it still needed a little love to make usefull last check (dtmf didnt work, etc)
[06:49] <opi> \sh, will you take over Jabberd packages? :)
[06:49] <\sh> sabdfl: I have experiences in this issue, cause I was working with a couple of guys for gentoo on it
[06:49] <sabdfl> i'm not fussy - though i prefer a python-based solution for bigotry reasons
[06:49] <sabdfl> \sh: ssshhhh, elmo is around
[06:49] <mvo> sabdfl: \sh wants to work on pyqt/pykde based package managment tools 
[06:49] <ogra> sabdfl, lol
[06:49] <sabdfl> excellent
[06:49] <\sh> opi: glad to :) i made some changes to run it better as it is in the package right now
[06:49] <sabdfl> \sh: your bug table is very cool
[06:49] <opi> \sh, would love to see it
[06:50] <\sh> sabdfl: thx :)
[06:50] <\sh> opi: in my local repos are some other things for jabberd2 i would like to attend the movement from jabberd1 to v2
[06:50] <\sh> well...after all, I'm up to do some work for "ubuntu on servers"
[06:51] <mako> \sh: excellent!
[06:51] <\sh> datacenter ubuntu or whatever you will call it :)
[06:51] <ogra> \sh, switching ISH GmbH over ?
[06:51] <dholbach> the MOTUServerTeam :-)
[06:51] <ogra> yeah
[06:51] <\sh> ogra: I'm waiting for the cds yes :)
[06:51] <ogra> hehe
[06:51] <dredg> it would be pretty sweet if plesk/cpanel/directadmin/etc provided ubuntu support
[06:51] <\sh> ogra: and thx that u pulled me into this big adventure :)
[06:51] <ogra> :)
[06:52] <mako> awesome.. well i'm willing to approve
[06:52] <amu> \sh: hrhrh no chance you're owned by kubuntu ;) 
[06:52] <opi> I'm all over \sh membership :)
[06:52] <sabdfl> \sh gets a +1 from me, based on his wiki page, past contributions and restaurant recommendations
[06:52] <\sh> ahaha :)
[06:52] <ogra> lol
[06:52] <dholbach> hahaha :-)
[06:52] <Lathiat> haha
[06:52] <\sh> sabdfl: i hope u agree with me :)
[06:52] <mdz> did somebody mention food?
[06:52] <afranke> lol
[06:52] <\sh> mdz: visit durban :)
[06:52] <Kamion> what sabdfl said, apart possibly from the restaurant recommendations, which I don't expect will be useful to me any time soon. :-) ack
[06:52] <sabdfl> mdz: don't forget to eat again
[06:53] <ogra> *G*
[06:53] <opi> mako, btw: note launchd thread in upcomming Ubuntu-T
[06:53] <sabdfl> mdz: alternatively, don't forget to put the q-tips in your ears before showering, we don't want another drain inceident, ok
[06:53] <mako> opi: lets talk about this after teh meeting
[06:53] <opi> mako, sure, it's just poped up in my head. I'll e-mail you the url ;)
[06:53] <mdz> a what?
[06:53] <ogra> lol
[06:53] <sabdfl> mako, elmo: up or needs-more-time on \sh?
[06:53] <mako> is there anyone here that we have no covered yet?
[06:53] <mako> sabdfl: i gave my approval first
[06:53] <Kamion> sabdfl: 17:52 < mako> awesome.. well i'm willing to approve
[06:54] <tritium> mako, me
[06:54] <diamond> mako: i
[06:54] <sabdfl> mako: sorry, missed it
[06:54] <mako> tritium: alright, jump in
[06:54] <elmo> I'm happy to ack too
[06:54] <sabdfl> ok, that looks like quorum
[06:54] <sabdfl> \sh: welcome aboard!
[06:54] <sabdfl> this party is getting interesting
[06:54] <\sh> thx guys :) I'm honoured to work with u :)
[06:55] <whiprush> woo!
[06:55] <dholbach> \sh: it's a pleasure to have you around
[06:55] <\sh> ogra: re^5 :)
[06:55] <tritium> mako, okay, I was given the TB approval before the last CC
[06:55] <sabdfl> mako: want to run through the folks who were here last week?
[06:55] <\sh> ogra: we will have a nice meeting at ogra's inn next month, i et :)
[06:55] <sabdfl> tritium: which is your wiki page url?
[06:55] <ogra> tritium is tecnically already a MOTU with no membership....
[06:55] <tritium> http://www.ubuntu.com/wiki/MichaelRimbert
[06:56] <sabdfl> tritium: my apologies
[06:56] <tritium> I have recently been an op in #ubuntu, at the request of bob2 and crimsun
[06:56] <amu> \sh: ogra's inn, that sounds great
[06:56] <mako> tritium: right, definitely
[06:56] <ogra> heh
[06:56] <dholbach> he does good work and plays nicely with the MOTU team
[06:56] <Kamion> how's #ubuntu doing? it's had a number of problems over the last several months
[06:56] <tritium> I'm also converting the faculty here at Debian's birthplace (Purdue) to ubuntu
[06:56] <mako> Kamion: that's later on the agneda :)
[06:56] <Kamion> getting it back under some semblance of control would be good :-)
[06:56] <tritium> Finally, my main interest computing interests are in the science/math/education area.  I am developing a Digital Signal Processing curriculum using python and matplotlib, rather than the traditional Matlab (or octave).
[06:57] <Kamion> mako: so it is
[06:57] <mako> tritium: yes.. lets finish with diamond and tritium since they are both still here
[06:58] <mako> sabdfl: ^^
[06:58] <tritium> sabdfl, no apologies necessary, but thank you :)
[06:58] <mako> alright.. i'm happy with tritiums contributions so far
[06:58] <mako> membership++ from me for sure
[06:58] <rave> :)
[06:59] <elmo> me too
[06:59] <Kamion> ack on the basis of bugs / MOTU work, we can talk about #ubuntu stuff later on
[06:59] <sabdfl> +1 from me too, based on past work. tritium, which areas are you most interested in going forward?
[06:59] <sabdfl> so tritium's in - congrats!
[06:59] <tritium> Thank you :-)
[06:59] <ogra> hooray
[06:59] <mako> awesome
[06:59] <\sh> grats tritium 
[06:59] <mako> diamond: hey there
[06:59] <dholbach> YESYESYES!
[07:00] <tritium> sabdfl, I intend to continue with scientific computing and education tools
[07:00] <diamond> mako: shall i attempt the 2 sentence blurb?
[07:00] <mako> diamond: please
[07:00] <dholbach> *snigger* Stephen "Captain Pedantic Pants" Shirley :-)
[07:00] <sabdfl> diamond: go for it
[07:01] <dredg> dholbach: you have no idea
[07:01] <dredg> dholbach: he even has the tshirt
[07:01] <diamond> mako: ok. so far, i was involved in the universe ftbfs squashing, pointed out random additions do Kamion's wiki page, attempted to arrange hea.net as an official irish ubuntu mirror (tho i'm not sure where that went ,-)
[07:01] <ogra> diamond already helped at MOTU targets
[07:02] <diamond> in the future, i'd like to work on better kerberos integration, more flexible auth mechanisms, ssl for everything
[07:02] <mako> ogra, dholbach: what is your verdict so far? go ahead or wait two weeks?
[07:02] <sabdfl> diamond: what's your wiki page?
[07:02] <Kamion> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/StephenShirley
[07:02] <diamond> Kamion: cheers
[07:02] <dredg> diamond: actually, re heanet, i'm poking at mirrors@ for other things right now. i'll follow up about ie.*.ubuntu
[07:02] <diamond> dredg: thanks
[07:02] <sabdfl> looks great to me
[07:02] <diamond> dredg: tho the mirrors team is waiting for a reply from ubuntu ,-)
[07:02] <ogra> mako, a good contribution so far
[07:03] <mako> awesome
[07:03] <dredg> diamond: ah. well, i'm about to head to SAGE, i'll annoy someone there :)
[07:03] <diamond> since the hoary release i've been taking a breather, but i intend to be more involved from about now on
[07:03] <Kamion> diamond's been in touch with me off and on for some time about miscellaneous things, and the list of contributions looks good; ack
[07:03] <ogra> mako, so my vote is a "go ahead"
[07:03] <sabdfl> diamond: which areas interest you most?
[07:04] <Kamion> diamond: it'd be good to have someone competent to work on improved Kickstart support for auth methods like krb5
[07:04] <mako> diamond: that's 3.. welcome
[07:04] <diamond> sabdfl: i'm a sys admin for the comp soc in the university of limerick where i'm a student. anything that helps me run a cluster of machines securely interests me -)
[07:04] <diamond> mako: can i sit down now? -)
[07:04] <sabdfl> ok, sounds good, welcome aboard!
[07:04] <mako> diamond: maybe not :)
[07:04] <mako> diamond: yes :)
[07:04] <ogra> heh
[07:04] <diamond> woo. thanks guys -)
[07:04] <dholbach> ROCK, congratulations diamond :-)
[07:04] <mako> trulux: you showed after roll call 
[07:04] <mako> but you're here
[07:04] <sabdfl> diamond: fabionne is interested to get clustering bits into the breezy kernel
[07:04] <ogra> congrats diamond 
[07:04] <mako> trulux: want to do the two sentance introduction?
[07:04] <sabdfl> so you may want to collaborate with him on that
[07:05] <trulux> mako: sure
[07:05] <mako> Unfrgiven: you around too?
[07:05] <mako> trulux: go ahead
[07:05] <diamond> sabdfl: ah. i should clarify, by cluster i just mean distributed services, not beowulf stuff, sorry
[07:05] <sabdfl> ah, ok
[07:06] <trulux> Hi, I'm Lorenzo Hernndez Garca-Hierro and I'm here as of my willing to get the membership status within the UBuntu Linux project. My wishes to the project are to give the best of myself in those fields which I can contribute and help more, to coordinate and organize UBuntu Hardened activies and to help in anything else needed.
[07:07] <sabdfl> trulux: have you taken any concrete steps with Ubuntu hardened?
[07:07] <sabdfl> and do you see your main contribution as being in the code area, or elsewhere?
[07:07] <Kamion> did the recent ubuntu-hardened "discussion" settle down in the end? I was too busy at the time of the IRC meeting to watch
[07:07] <trulux> sabdfl: right, those are specified in some wiki pages and currently I'm finishing a definitive specification to be discussed well
[07:08] <pitti> trulux: would you be willing to implement the ProactiveSecurityRoadmap?
[07:08] <trulux> Kamion: right, everything is clear now and things were well discussed and even decided
[07:08] <sabdfl> very cool
[07:08] <pitti> trulux: there are some easy targets, would be cool if we could settle some of them soon; then you have some real uploads to show off
[07:08] <trulux> pitti: of course, yes. I must say that part of the existing one is now part of the Ubuntu Hardened spec as a whole
[07:08] <mako> trulux: great.. you've been talking to mdz and to ajmitch_?
[07:08] <Kamion> trulux: ok, that's good to hear; hope we won't have that situation again :)
[07:09] <mdz> I have not been very available to talk recently
[07:09] <trulux> mako: mdz was present at the meeting and ajmitch knows well on the SELinux related work within Ubuntu Hardened
[07:09] <trulux> mdz: right, no problems
[07:09] <mdz> trulux has prepared some fairly detailed plans for what we need to do in order to implement SELinux within Ubuntu
[07:09] <mako> trulux: right, but kamion and i were both present at the meeting but that really only means we were idling in the channel
[07:09] <sabdfl> trulux: do you have a page on the wiki?
[07:10] <trulux> for those interested in the meeting that toke place at #ubuntu-hardened, the log is available at http://pearls.tuxedo-es.org/ubuntu/rfc-1.txt
[07:10] <trulux> sabdfl: yes
[07:10] <mako> trulux: cool
[07:10] <trulux> sabdfl: lemme get the direct link...
[07:10] <Kamion> mako: point of information, I wasn't, although trulux did invite me
[07:10] <mdz> trulux: http://www.ubuntu.com/wiki/SELinux is primarily your work (and ajmitch's), yes?
[07:10] <mako> Kamion: ok.. i was, but i was just idling in the channel :)
[07:10] <trulux> mdz: yes, I've noted where ajmitch_ did some work like in the coreutils package
[07:11] <mdz> trulux: though, you seem to have marked things 'Done' which are not yet complete
[07:12] <trulux> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LorenzoHernandezGarciaHierro
[07:12] <trulux> mdz: no, those Done things are done from our side, that means, patches and packages work and have bene tested
[07:12] <trulux> mdz: not necessary mean they're already implemented
[07:13] <sabdfl> trulux: looks like very interesting work!
[07:13] <trulux> sabdfl: many thanks, I just try to help
[07:13] <mako> has anyone worked with trulux and wants to offer a testimonial
[07:13] <sabdfl> we won't move SELinux to Ubuntu/main until it's really ready for end-user primetime, but it's fantastic to have community interest and experimentation on that front
[07:14] <pitti> to be honest, I'd like to defer his application for a few weeks until trulux actually uploaded some packages
[07:14] <pitti> but he is very eager and competent, would be cool to have him on board eventually
[07:14] <trulux> sabdfl: well, as it's explained in the new spec and the meeting log, packages can be ready for selinux support with no impact. if SELinux is not enabled at boot time, they will just work ignoring the selinux-related code
[07:14] <sabdfl> ok, seems reasonable
[07:15] <sabdfl> but we'll have some cool support for derivatives, and we can turn it ALL on there and see how it works out
[07:15] <sabdfl> then move it into main when it's tested
[07:15] <trulux> mako: tritium, dholbach, herve, tseng, ajmitch_ , maybe more
[07:15] <trulux> hey zul 
[07:15] <zul> hey
[07:15] <sabdfl> trulux: we're keen to have you on board as a full member, but want to work a bit longer with you before that happens
[07:15] <sabdfl> sound reasonable?
[07:15] <mdz> trulux: filing a bug in bugzilla is not 'Done'; marking it Done reduces the likelihood of someone looking at it
[07:16] <trulux> sabdfl: yes
[07:16] <mako> alright then, sounds good
[07:16] <sabdfl> ok cool
[07:16] <mdz> but let's talk about this elsewhere
[07:16] <mako> SOOO
[07:16] <sabdfl> mako: what's up next?
[07:16] <pitti> I'll try to make some time to work with him
[07:16] <trulux> mdz: I apologize of not noting that well
[07:16] <mako> we've got people who were at the last meeting but are not here this time
[07:16] <dholbach> i didnt work that closely with trulux yet
[07:16] <mako> not too many fortunately
[07:16] <Kamion> pitti: that would be valuable, yeah
[07:16] <mako> chris scheib
[07:16] <mako> schweeb: around?
[07:16] <trulux> dholbach: right
[07:16] <tritium> I have worked with trulux on some of his papers, mostly LaTeX issues.
[07:17] <mako> dholbach, ogra: want to speak up for schweeb?
[07:17] <dholbach> he did rocking work in the LastMinuteFixes :-)
[07:17] <ogra> schweeb has done the gsf-sharp package together with jdub for MOTU
[07:17] <ogra> (gsf-sharp is a important piece for mono and beagle in main)
[07:18] <ogra> thumbs up from my side
[07:18] <dholbach> and he takes care of the nice atmosphere in the MOTU channel  -  good to have him in the team
[07:18] <mako> he seemed interested and active last meeting
[07:18] <mako> i had no problems with him them.. don't know
[07:18] <sabdfl> so he's actively uploading to universe?
[07:18] <dholbach> sabdfl: through other MOTUs
[07:18] <ogra> sabdfl, not yet
[07:18] <Kamion> schweeb: Has anyone asked you about doing automatic testing bits with Xen?
[07:19] <whiprush> he's just logging, new job, can't irc from there.
[07:19] <Kamion> (if the answer is "about a million times", sorry I'm behind)
[07:19] <Kamion> ah, ok
[07:19] <mako> he's very idle
[07:19] <sabdfl> is he active in the DetroitLoco team?
[07:20] <ogra> whiprush knows him personally...
[07:20] <mako> whiprush ?
[07:20] <whiprush> yes
[07:20] <mako> 19:19 < sabdfl> is he active in the DetroitLoco team?
[07:20] <whiprush> yes, he is.
[07:20] <mako> schweeb that is
[07:20] <whiprush> metallikop and I work with him regularly.
[07:22] <sabdfl> if ogra and dholbach really want him to be uploading in MOTU, and he made it to the previous CC meeting, then I'm happy
[07:22] <ogra> ++ for uploading
[07:23] <ogra> (but we discuss memebership)
[07:23] <ogra> ++ for membership
[07:23] <dholbach> he absolutely deserves membership
[07:23] <sabdfl> mako? kamion? elmo? thumbs-up or need-more-time on schweeb
[07:23] <mako> yes, ++ i said it way early
[07:23] <elmo> ack
[07:24] <Kamion> ack
[07:24] <Kamion> (based on MOTU recommendations)
[07:24] <dholbach> woohoo!
[07:24] <sabdfl> ok, done... in absentia, welcome schweeb!
[07:24] <sabdfl> next up?
[07:24] <mako> i'm a having a little trouble reading my handwriting.. but motaboy was not here
[07:24] <mako> jon dodson WAS
[07:25] <mako> he's been a major forums contributor
[07:25] <mako> loads of posts, lots of support work
[07:25] <mako> he's also submitted a bunch of original work to Ubuntu traffic
[07:25] <sabdfl> lots of activity in the forums, lots of energy
[07:25] <mako> should definitely be pulled into the notfridge
[07:26] <mako> check out his page
[07:26] <whiprush> heh
[07:26] <dholbach> the! fridge!
[07:26] <sabdfl> plus, he also started on a VIC20
[07:26] <ogra> yay
[07:26] <sabdfl> +1 from me, based on substantial community participation
[07:26] <ogra> me too
[07:26] <zul> thats nothing :)
[07:27] <ogra> zul, couldnt convince my parents to a zx81 ;)
[07:27] <smurfix> sabdfl: ... and that's supposed to be an advantage?  ;-)   (the VIC20 thing, that is)
[07:27] <ogra> heh
[07:27] <zul> ogra: heh we were doing logo in grade 1
[07:27] <Lathiat> haha
[07:27] <sabdfl> that's where the HoaryGaming instinct must have come from. Frogger Rules!
[07:27] <ogra> yeah
[07:27] <\sh> smurfix: don't discuss about a vic20 :) I and ds@nwu.de puzzled your uisdn config ;)
[07:27] <sabdfl> others on CC?
[07:28] <smurfix> \sh: That feels like even more ancient history to me ...
[07:28] <sabdfl> mako, kamion, elmo, decision on JonDodson?
[07:28] <mako> i vote in favor
[07:29] <elmo> ack
[07:29] <\sh> smurfix: well...the time for SPVs and teles card inside a small cyrix box and uisdn...better that INS' banzai router :) long time ago
[07:29] <Kamion> no objections, although I haven't had a chance to follow up the links yet, so kind of +0 so far :)
[07:29] <mako> ok.. kassetra was also present last time
[07:29] <sabdfl> ok, so yes to JonDodson
[07:30] <sabdfl> also seems like a very strong community participation from Kassetra
[07:31] <mako> yeah, a similar sort of thing
[07:31] <mako> this is part due to conversations between ryan troy and myself
[07:31] <mako> about bringin the ubuntu community and forums community closer together
[07:31] <mako> membership for major forums admins and moderators, etc
[07:31] <sabdfl> inviting forums guys to become members - great idea
[07:31] <sabdfl> is ryan himself a member yet?
[07:31] <Kamion> the local government work sounds cool, I'd be interested to hear more about that
[07:32] <mako> no.. but i, not so subtly suggested he do ddo it for the next meeting :)
[07:32] <mako> so he will be
[07:32] <sabdfl> lots of diverse threads initiated and touched on
[07:33] <mako> absolutely.. 
[07:33] <sabdfl> cool, +1 from me based on community participation. these guys will have a very good finger on the pulse of the end user community, very helpful
[07:33] <coastGNU> sabdfl: On the long run inviting forum guys to become members might be no good idea. CC will grow so will the forums what on the long run will make it hard to coordinate such a big group.
[07:33] <mako> +1 from me too
[07:33] <mako> elmo, Kamion: ?
[07:33] <mako> finally.. travis newman
[07:33] <ogra> coastGNU, we'll manage it, dont worry :)
[07:33] <mako> panickedthumb, around?
[07:33] <sabdfl> coastGNU: these guys are not joining the CC, they are becoming members, and membership is open to anybody who makes a substantial input into the project, in any area, and does it with charm and flair :-)
[07:33] <Kamion> ack, would like to hear more about the advocacy bits
[07:34] <mako> i can invite kassetra to the next CC meeting
[07:34] <sabdfl> so that's a firm yes to Kassetra
[07:34] <diamond> clarification of my irc whois name now on wiki page: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/StephenShirley
[07:34] <Lathiat> haha
[07:34] <mdke> i added my name very late to the list
[07:35] <mdke> hope that's ok
[07:35] <sabdfl> mdke: wiki page?
[07:35] <mako> mdke: sure.. we'll get to you last
[07:35] <coastGNU> sabdfl: OK, muddled CC and membership. so forget what I said.
[07:35] <mako> sabdfl: the cc agenda
[07:35] <mdke> mako, thanks
[07:35] <sabdfl> matthew east?
[07:35] <sabdfl> ok
[07:35] <mako> yes
[07:35] <mdke> yes
[07:35] <mako> so travis newman
[07:35] <mako> also not here now, also there before
[07:35] <dholbach> the moin-izer :-)
[07:35] <sabdfl> mdke: you've done really superlative work in the wiki
[07:36] <mako> i've been working with travis since basically last september
[07:36] <mako> he's been involved in a ton of community work
[07:36] <mako> writing things, working on the forums, support etc
[07:36] <mako> a great example of non-code contributions
[07:36] <mdke> sabdfl, ty
[07:37] <mako> as far as i'm concerned, panickedthumb++ 
[07:37] <Kamion> Travis looks good to me; I wonder how much of UBAD exists yet
[07:38] <sabdfl> mako: +1 on travis newman
[07:38] <sabdfl> i'm really keen to get UBAD onto launchpad as soon as possible!
[07:38] <mako> sabdfl: it's simple enough it would be a good candidate to start off with
[07:38] <mako> so.. i think that's my list of people who were here last time
[07:38] <mako> so..
[07:39] <mako> mdke: you're up
[07:39] <mdke> mako, hi
[07:39] <mako> mdke: your reputation preceeds you
[07:39] <mdke> nice of you to say so
[07:39] <sabdfl> mdke: you've more than earned a place on the team already, i'm interested in your vision going forwards
[07:39] <mako> but go ahead, do the 2 liner for those of us whose wiki page you have not redone in moin
[07:39] <mdke> LOL
[07:40] <sabdfl> mdke: if I ever need one, I definitely want you as *my* lawyer
[07:40] <mdke> ok i work in the documentation team and the italian team. I've been working on the wiki, and on getting translations of the documentation together
[07:40] <mdke> sabdfl, don't tell me you don't have one
[07:41] <sabdfl> mdke: squads, but thus far fortunately at a relatively long arms length
[07:41] <mdke> *grins*
[07:41] <mako> sabdfl: *if*
[07:41] <mako> sabdfl: i'm suprised you don't have one following you around ;)
[07:41] <Lathiat> heheh
[07:41] <ogra> *g*
[07:41] <mdke> maybe he does, but doesn't know about it
[07:41] <mako> i'm also suprised i don't have one following me around
[07:41] <sabdfl> mdke: what would you say is the biggest challenge for ubuntu going forward, that you are interested in?
[07:41] <mdke> hmm
[07:41] <sabdfl> mako: thats a private detective, it's different
[07:42] <mdke> sabdfl, to be honest my approach so far has been to wait for a problem which presents itself, and trying to help
[07:42] <mdke> sabdfl, i think the consensus in the documentation team at the moment is that Ubuntu's "user-friendlyness" is not yet manifested in the documentation
[07:42] <sabdfl> are you based in the uk?
[07:42] <mdke> yes
[07:42] <sabdfl> and the italian interest?
[07:43] <mdke> i have a personal attachment to italy
[07:43] <sabdfl> mako: think hard. you only get one bullet
[07:43] <zul> mako: is it me :)
[07:43] <mdke> sabdfl, i spent some time there, and my g/f is italian
[07:43] <sabdfl> ok. +1 on mdke from me, based on tremendous wiki work
[07:44] <mako> just to be contrary, because thi smeeting is long, +1 based on local team work and helping create a good loco team model
[07:44] <dholbach> mdke++
[07:44] <Kamion> mdke's been doing loads of good stuff for ages. +1
[07:44] <mako> mdke: welcome dude
[07:44] <mdke> thanks very much
[07:44] <mako> alright, anyone else here for membership that we've missed?
[07:44] <mdke> lemme know what I need to do
[07:44] <mako> MARATHON
[07:44] <mako> going once.. 
[07:44] <mako> going twice..
[07:45] <mdke> hang on
[07:45] <sabdfl> SOLD! errr..
[07:45] <ogra> marathon ? where's jordi ?
[07:45] <mdke> jerome was on the list
[07:45] <ogra> oh, yes, jerome
[07:45] <mdke> i think this is night time for him tho
[07:45] <mako> right.. he should be able to make the next one
[07:45] <dholbach> yes, should be
[07:45] <mako> we all spent a lot of time talking to him a couple weeks ago
[07:45] <sabdfl> mako: do we have the IncrediblyTimeshiftingCCSchedule?
[07:45] <mako> sabdfl: not as incredible as it used to be
[07:46] <Simira> so, you're putting the cc-meeting on the other side of the hours again next time, eh? I was hoping to attend then, but...
[07:46] <mako> sabdfl: the cc members weren't making the 5am meeting :)
[07:46] <mako> it will shift.. but not to anything INSANE for the uk
[07:46] <Lathiat> stupid timezones
[07:46] <mako> or else we don't have quorum
[07:46] <sabdfl> *cough*
[07:46] <sabdfl> ok
[07:46] <Simira> uk time is fine with me
[07:46] <\sh> well
[07:46] <mako> but it may be morning or latish night for the uk
[07:46] <\sh> we're all UTC ;) only the daylight is different ;)
[07:47] <sabdfl> when shall we freaks meet again?
[07:47] <mako> two weeks
[07:47] <mako> but we have two other itmes!
[07:47] <mako> first
[07:47] <mako> relatively quickies
[07:47] <mako> IRC
[07:47] <mako> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/InternetRelayChat
[07:47] <Simira> nice tool for communication
[07:47] <mako> bob2 and daniels and some community members and i sat down to work through some stuff at udu
[07:48] <ogra> Simira, pretty broken recently through trolls....
[07:48] <mako> and we followed up on the last resolution to suggest some new operators for the #ubuntu channel
[07:48] <mako> everyone should take a look at that document...
[07:48] <Lathiat> Everytime i goto #ubuntu i get sucked in helping for like 2 or 3 hours because so many people give out wrong information :\
[07:48] <tritium> I'm helping out with ops when I can, but if I get disconnected, I have to wait for somebody to give me ops again
[07:48] <\sh> well
[07:48] <mako> and we should appoint some new operators now.. some have already been appointed
[07:48] <\sh> if I can say something to this very common problem? 
[07:48] <mako> so, here is the list of people that were nominated:
[07:48] <Kamion> tritium: can be sorted out with chanserv
[07:48] <\sh> this happens for years
[07:49] <tritium> Kamion, yes (ChanServer kicked me out Sunday night, for example)
[07:49] <mako> crimsun, tritium, ajmitch_, carlk, amaranth, dholbach, ogra
[07:49] <Kamion> tritium: I mean if you're on the access list ...
[07:49] <mako> also, all cc members should be listed as operators
[07:49] <Simira> I didn't realize there were so much trolls on #ubuntu
[07:49] <\sh> and the only thing you can do...is to split up the chan into several, with a max of users for one channel...the rest does chanserv and ops for chanserv
[07:49] <tritium> Kamion, right
[07:49] <sabdfl> whos carlk?
[07:49] <mako> so that if nobody else is around, they can be called in
[07:49] <Lathiat> \sh: that sucks because you get divison of knowledge
[07:50] <mako> sabdfl: someone who is very helpful and active on #ubuntu
[07:50] <sabdfl> ok
[07:50] <ogra> sabdfl, he posts a lot in ubuntu-users
[07:50] <Kamion> Carl Karsten, I'm guessing
[07:50] <mdke> Simira, its full of em :/
[07:50] <Simira> mako: does that go for all of the mentioned?
[07:50] <mako> Simira: yes
[07:50] <sabdfl> i'm happy to appoint community ops
[07:50] <\sh> Lathiat: well, I'm using irc for more then 10 years now...and trolls and fights you will have in any situation
[07:51] <sabdfl> think we've seen good stuff from all of them, be great if they are willing to take on the ops challenge too
[07:51] <Lathiat> \sh: yes, but if people who are around who can deal with them, it helps
[07:51] <mako> this is in addition to the current ops
[07:51] <Seveas> indeed, but decent ops can control a lot..
[07:51] <mako> we should make sure we always have a few people in the channel with ops
[07:51] <Lathiat> We should try get a good time zone coverage i fpossible
[07:51] <\sh> Lathiat: it's not a faulty protocol, the people have bugs (sometimes) 
[07:51] <sabdfl> do we refer people to the CoC in the topic?
[07:51] <mako> sabdfl: we have in the past.. not sure if it is done right now
[07:51] <mdke> good idea
[07:51] <\sh> Lathiat: punishment increases the trolling mode 
[07:51] <dholbach> i'd be happy, if somebody else would take over my place as a #ubuntu op
[07:51] <mako> dholbach: are you not active on the channel?
[07:51] <lamont> sabdfl: no comment about CoC in the current topic
[07:51] <tritium> I agree.  Also, maybe clearing up misconceptions about backports and ubuntuguide
[07:51] <dholbach> i'm not in there that often
[07:51] <Lathiat> \sh: You need the right people to handle the situations
[07:51] <mdke> tritium, +++++++++
[07:52] <Kamion> we can never totally eliminate trolling on IRC, but we can do a lot better than we're currently doing
[07:52] <Lathiat> I've used irc alot
[07:52] <Lathiat> been an irc op etc
[07:52] <mako> dholbach: ok
[07:52] <Lathiat> you need to try discourage people
[07:52] <dholbach> mako: thank you
[07:52] <Simira> mako: I'll be happy to do a job there. I'm not much on #ubuntu because I mostly manage on my own, but I can give some support. I'm planning on trying to become an ubuntu-member in couple of weeks or so. Though I think the ones you have mentioned are nice people, and active.
[07:52] <Lathiat> and appropriate kickbanning etc as needed
[07:52] <Lathiat> but if you can shut them up without that, it helps, otherwise you get ban avoidance, etc
[07:52] <mako> Simira: the most important thing is now finding people who are active on the channel
[07:52] <ogra> Simira, grab dholbachs place
[07:52] <\sh> Lathiat: the easiest way to handle this situation is to have an irc admin who can "punish" those guys the hardway...serverbans etc.
[07:52] <mako> in most cases, just having someone with ops say "hey, mind the CC is enough"
[07:52] <mako> sorry
[07:52] <mako> the CoC
[07:52] <Lathiat> \sh: that doesnt really help any more than a kickban
[07:53] <mako> right, if you are interested in volunteer, please talk to me afterward
[07:53] <mako> we can vet everyone right now
[07:53] <Simira> mako: I can choose to be. As I'm on a sick leave on 80%, I'm mostly at home in front of the computer anyway.
[07:53] <mako> sorry.. can't
[07:53] <Lathiat> mako: what are the 'requirements'
[07:53] <mako> we can't have the "i should be ops" discussion right now
[07:53] <ogra> mako, i'm not that active anymore, i'm more -devel -motu centric recently, but being around to clearify a situation should be enough, no ?
[07:53] <Lathiat> like, i am not an ubuntu member, but i spend alot of time on irc and helping people around the place and would be willing to help take care...
[07:53] <mako> lets talk afterwards if you want to be ops
[07:53] <mako> for the moment, lets please just handle the CURRENT list of proposals
[07:53] <\sh> Lathiat: well...hope it works :) i'd seen networks going down because of trolls...complete communities broke up
[07:54] <Lathiat> righton, moving on...
[07:54] <mako> does anyone have any problem with the people on that list?
[07:54] <mako> it's not complete? it's just the first stap and getting more ops in there
[07:54] <tritium> mako, if I may point out one thing...
[07:54] <mako> tritium: yes, yes
[07:54] <Lathiat> looking at what time/zones are covered might be an idea
[07:54] <Kamion> I'm happy with everyone on the current list at http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/InternetRelayChat; I know them all and they're all reasonable people. I think they should have to accept the nomination, though. :-)
[07:54] <mako> DUDE, UBUNTU CDS JUST ARRIVED
[07:54] <tritium> I'm defending my thesis in 10 weeks, so my coverage will be sparse until then, if I am an op
[07:54] <Kamion> Lathiat: yeah ...
[07:55] <mako> tritium: that's fine.. that's why there are a dozen or so people with ops
[07:55] <Simira> mako: I think it's a good list. I don't know tritium and carlk, but the others are good
[07:55] <sabdfl> looks good to me - mako go ahead and thank them if they accept it
[07:55] <sabdfl> mako: 1 millionth, or Hoary?
[07:55] <lamont> mako: WOOT!
[07:55] <mako> sabdfl: well, haory now.. got hte 1 millionth yesterday :)
[07:55] <ogra> mako, yeah
[07:55] <Simira> mako: send some for me, please?
[07:55] <dholbach> incredible!
[07:55] <Lathiat> woo they are shipping? great
[07:55] <dholbach> champagne!
[07:55] <sabdfl> ok, LocoTeamList?
[07:55] <smurfix> Cool. When will mine arrive then?  ;-)
[07:56] <\sh> smurfix: hmm...and mine...same timezone ;)
[07:56] <Kamion> the third point in InternetRelayChat's implementation plan is a very good idea, I think
[07:56] <Lathiat> yes
[07:56] <Lathiat> especially in big public channels like that, that does help
[07:57] <Kamion> the current number of two is too small in proportion
[07:57] <smurfix> getting started with locoteamlists ... mako wanted to create that mailing list as soon as he is admin on the lists box and can do it
[07:57] <mako> smurfix: do you have anything to vote on or present on loco teams?
[07:58] <sabdfl> as to the last point, happy to take on ops, just need someone to tell me how to use it appropriately
[07:58] <coastGNU> Kamion: on the long run there should be at least 2 op per timezone
[07:58] <Lathiat> sabdfl: its pretty easy i can give you a quick rundown if you want.
[07:58] <ogra> there is a faq on freendoe anywhere
[07:58] <ogra> freenode even
[07:58] <mako> sabdfl: just type /kickban daniels every time you join ;)
[07:58] <Lathiat> (that goes for anyone)
[07:58] <Lathiat> mako: haha
[07:58] <sabdfl> Lathiat: cool, thanks, privmsg?
[07:58] <Lathiat> sabdfl: sure
[07:58] <\sh>  /msg chanserv help ;)
[07:58] <Amaranth> anyone in central standard time (US)?
[07:58] <Amaranth> :)
[07:58] <mako> Amaranth: i'm in eastern time us
[07:58] <mako> close enough
[07:59] <mako> smurfix: nothing this time?
[07:59] <mako> smurfix: i think we'll have some new loco team process stuff to present at the next one.. the spec needs to be fully polished
[07:59] <mako> maybe some other CC related specs
[07:59] <mako> including the membership/maintainership one
[07:59] <mako> will be up for presentation
[07:59] <smurfix> mako: not WRT specific teams; I've arrived home yesterday and haven't gotten around to any team-specific stuff yet.
[07:59] <mako> mostly small changes but they need to eventually be run by the council
[07:59] <mako> so....
[07:59] <mako> that brings us to 
[07:59] <mako> ANY OTHER BUSINESS?
[07:59] <smurfix> mako: right
[08:00] <Simira> mako / smurfix: I have some thoughts about LoCo activities, as well as some question. I can try to have them written down by next meeting.
[08:00] <mako> Simira: awesome
[08:00] <mako> AO
[08:00] <sabdfl> next meeting?
[08:00] <mako> AOB.. going once
[08:00] <mako> gone
[08:00] <mako> :)
[08:00] <mako> so
[08:01] <mako> so the new meeting times proposed were
[08:01] <mako> 22UTC and 12UTC
[08:01] <sabdfl> now that diamond is out of earshot...
[08:01] <smurfix> Simira: might be best to discuss them in email during the next two weeks. We have also done some wok on that at UDU; have you read that?
[08:01] <sabdfl> both fine by me
[08:01] <mako> i want to find out which one is better for the aussies
[08:01] <mako> and then suggest that one
[08:01] <Lathiat> grumbel at ^W in xchat = close window
[08:01] <Simira> smurfix: no, I've generally had a problem finding documentations on udu work...
[08:01] <mako> so we can get jerome and others there
[08:01] <smurfix> Simira: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamProcess
[08:01] <mako> for the next meeting
[08:01] <mako> but it will be in two weeks from today
[08:02] <sabdfl> actually 22 UTC is sort of in verboten time for me during summer
[08:02] <sabdfl> in london
[08:02] <sabdfl> when marianne is in town
[08:02] <Simira> smurfix: ah, thanks. I'll send you a mail when it's done.
[08:02] <mako> hmm.. 
[08:02] <\sh> sabdfl: 22 utc is 23 uk time?
[08:02] <smurfix> Simira: I've already implemented some of that on the main wiki's loco* pages
[08:02] <mako> if we do these bi-weekly, they should be quick meetings
[08:02] <sabdfl> \sh: yes, in summer
[08:03] <mako> we can discuss this then
[08:03] <sabdfl> so at preent i could do up to 21h00 UTC
[08:03] <\sh> sabdfl:hmmm....23:00 the pubs are closed..u should visit germany ;) 
[08:03] <dholbach> why don't we rotate in +8h cycles?
[08:03] <Amaranth> pubs close at 23:00?
[08:03] <mako> but the next meeting will be at SOME TIME on tuesday may 24th
[08:03] <mdke> Amaranth, yup
[08:03] <mako> Amaranth: don't ask.. it's insane
[08:03] <\sh> Amaranth: in uk yes :)
[08:03] <ogra> dholbach, because there is a big hole in the schedule then
[08:04] <mdke> not for long tho
[08:04] <sabdfl> hmm... in two weeks M is away, so next meeting can be 22h00 UTC. happy with that mako?
[08:04] <Simira> dholbach: please, not
[08:04] <mako> sabdfl: yes
[08:04] <sabdfl> kamion? elmo?
[08:04] <Amaranth> 02:00 here :)
[08:04] <dholbach> hm... i thought it was fairest for everybody involved
[08:04] <Kamion> I can make any of the suggested times
[08:04] <Kamion> at least on Tuesdays
[08:04] <elmo> sure
[08:04] <mako> dholbach: we can.. we just can't rotate into insane times for the uk or we don't have enough people to vote :)
[08:04] <mako> dholbach: experience dictates
[08:04] <elmo> I'm happy with any time that's >> 7am british time
[08:04] <Simira> :D
[08:04] <Amaranth> hey, i think i was here for that rotation
[08:05] <sabdfl> ok. done
[08:05] <mako> Amaranth: :)
[08:05] <Amaranth> we spent 40 minutes trying to get enough people to open
[08:05] <mako> excellent
[08:05] <JanC> Amaranth : pubs close at 23h in the UK, 'private' clubs don't...  ;-)
[08:05] <mako> thanks everyone!
[08:05] <sabdfl> mako: thanks very much! do the countdown thing again :-)
[08:05] <dholbach> mako: ok... you're right
[08:05] <mako> dholbach: thanks for helping poke and prod and provide information.. i appreciate it
[08:05] <Amaranth> JanC: That's...disturbing.
[08:05] <dholbach> mako: de rien :-)
[08:05] <mdke> Amaranth, they are about to implement 24 hour licensing
[08:05] <JanC> and you can get a 1-day 'membership' in most clubs  ;-)
[08:06] <Lathiat> JanC: heheh
[08:06] <sabdfl> ok, thanks everyone and see you in two weeks! welcome aboard new Members
[08:06] <mdke> thanks
[08:06] <mako> alright
[08:06] <Kamion> thanks all
[08:06] <\sh> sabdfl: thx :)
[08:06] <mako> if you were approved
[08:06] <dholbach> thanks!
[08:06] <Amaranth> dholbach: shouldn't those be ordered by date?
[08:06] <tritium> Thanks again, all :)
[08:06] <\sh> thx to all :)
[08:06] <ogra> thanks
[08:06] <mako> you're not ACTUALLY a member until you ahve sent me a signed CoC
[08:06] <\sh> mako: look in your inbox ,)
[08:06] <mako> so if you were approved by the council today
[08:06] <Lathiat> \sh: haha
[08:06] <mako> i already have gotten a few of them
[08:06] <tritium> mako, we're sticking around to discuss #ubuntu ops?
[08:06] <JanC> fortunately, some pubs in Belgium are opened 24h/day  :)
[08:06] <mako> tritium: i need a minute to get some coffee and such
[08:06] <tritium> of course
[08:07] <mako> this was a long meeting
[08:07] <mako> yeah, back in 15
[08:07] <\sh> Lathiat: well...if you could see me laying here with backpain...and laptop on my hips....;) it's funny how i do my work right now ,)
[08:07] <crimsun> please ping me when ops is back up for discussion, switching to another buffer
[08:07] <Lathiat> \sh: :(
[08:07] <tritium> crimsun, will do
[08:08] <crimsun> thanks, tritium 
[08:09] <JanC> \sh : I really hope it never gets as bad for you as my father had once; he couldn't get up without help for more than 2 months  :-(
[08:09] <JanC> so take care to not do anything to make it worse  ;-)
[08:10] <\sh> JanC: well...it's happening from time to time...at least i can move myself :)
[08:15] <Simira> smurfix: lots of good stuff you've done! I totally agree on every sentence. The things I had in mind though, is a bit more towards the practical ways of running a LoCo, as I've never done that before myself.
[08:28] <tritium> I'll be back in 2 minutes...
[08:31] <tritium> I'm back
[08:40] <coastGNU> smurfix: ping
[08:48] <mako> tritium: nope
[08:48] <mako> tritium: ok.. 
[08:48] <tritium> mako, ;)
[08:49] <Amaranth> so...
[08:49] <Lathiat> haha
[08:51] <crimsun> (reading chanserv help)
[08:51] <ggross> i've got a question : Is there an HowTo to learn how to contribute to Ubuntu ? I'm a pretty new linux user (Ubuntu addict) and want to help as i can 
[08:51] <crimsun> I presume the consensus is that all CC members in addition to those Ubuntu devs are ops?
[08:51] <Lathiat> ggross: Are you a native english speaker?
[08:52] <dholbach> ggross: http://ubuntu.com/community/participate is a good start
[08:52] <\sh> sh*t
[08:52] <ggross> Lathiat: no sorry, but i understood it quite well
[08:52] <mako> ggross: yes, the participate page is teh best we ahve
[08:52] <mako> i think it's quite good.. certainly quite better than it used to be
[08:52] <Lathiat> ggross: Was just going to mention, if not, translation teams might be of interest
[08:53] <Simira> and #ubuntu-love
[08:53] <mako> sure
[08:53] <dholbach> don't forget the MOTU team :-)
[08:53] <Lathiat> dholbach: :)
[08:53] <ggross> MOTU isn't for boss-users ?
[08:53] <Lathiat> ggross: boss-users?
[08:53] <tritium> Kamion, what were some of your concerns regarding #ubuntu?
[08:53] <ogra> boss ?
[08:53] <dholbach> boss-users?
[08:53] <ggross> i mean : great linux masters ?
[08:54] <Amaranth> hehe no
[08:54] <Simira> mako: I must admit, I still don't feel like I'm contributing enough, even I'm trying to runa LoCo and a translation team...
[08:54] <ogra> ggross, its lfor everyone who ants to help with packages
[08:54] <ggross> ok :D
[08:54] <Simira> ogra: don't you need to know a bit of programming and packaging for that?
[08:54] <Kamion> tritium: erm, fairly basic, just that it's too noisy and unhelpful to newcomers who aren't very used to IRC noise
[08:55] <Kamion> tritium: and general trolling etc.
[08:55] <dholbach> Simira: you can learn it all, if you want to
[08:55] <ogra> Simira, there is nothing you cant learn ;)
[08:55] <tritium> Kamion, I agree.
[08:55] <Kamion> tritium: nothing unusual for IRC, just needs to be brought under control more
[08:55] <Amaranth> Kamion: You could do what #python did.
[08:55] <dholbach> my proposal was to have #ubuntu-beginners as well :-)
[08:55] <ogra> argh
[08:55] <Simira> dholbach, ogra : actually, right now, there is. That's why I'm on a sick leave from my studies for another 6 months :p
[08:55] <Lathiat> Amaranth: i disagree with what #pyton did
[08:55] <Lathiat> it splits up knowledge
[08:55] <Lathiat> and makes it harder to look after
[08:55] <Amaranth> Lathiat: No other way to handle the problem.
[08:56] <Lathiat> tho only possible reason i see for that is when there are too many people talking the channel goes by too fast to be usefull. i don't know if that was an issue for #python or not
[08:56] <ogra> Simira, there is nothing you cant learn .... if you like it enough you will eventually :P
[08:56] <mako> tritium: yeah, i don't think the problem is that #ubuntu is horrible.. just that we've gottena lot of complaints that it's out of control and are there aren't a lot of people who taking a sort of leadership role in bringing it back under control
[08:56] <Amaranth> Lathiat: It moved pretty quick at times.
[08:56] <mako> tritium: and that the lack of operators was one major factor in that
[08:56] <mako> so, we'll make more operators
[08:57] <tritium> mako, right
[08:57] <ggross> +1 for operators too
[08:57] <mako> if we get to a place where there are active and responsible ops in the channel all of the time, and we still need to make changes, we can cross that bridge then
[08:57] <crimsun> yeah, currently we can't cover the entire day
[08:57] <mako> the role of an op should be to make sure the CoC is respected, remind peopl when it's not
[08:58] <mako> crimsun: then we need more ops. that's fine
[08:58] <mako> feel free to suggest people to me
[08:58] <Amaranth> i'd like to volunteer, but i think you have some bureaucratic things i'd have to go through first
[08:58] <mako> Amaranth: not really
[08:58] <Amaranth> i hope i spelled that right
[08:58] <crimsun> Amaranth: I think you're on the recommended list, no?
[08:58] <Amaranth> i am? where is that list?
[08:58] <crimsun> (during the meeting)
[08:58] <Amaranth> oh, i missed the meeting
[08:58] <Amaranth> did my math wrong
[08:58] <mako> Amaranth: wait dude.. yeah. we already approved you as an op :)
[08:59] <mako> Amaranth: if you want it, it's yours
[08:59] <Amaranth> cool
[08:59] <mako> not really buerocratic
[08:59] <crimsun> I'll go ahead and op those in that list if that's ok, mako 
[08:59] <mako> suggest people you think would be good and the cc will use any previous experience they ahve and talk to some other irc regulars who we trust
[08:59] <mako> crimsun: yeah. we need to add them to the chanserv too
[08:59] <ogra> Amaranth, getting a gpg key ....
[08:59] <crimsun> mako: ok
[09:00] <Amaranth> ogra: I think I have one. That's the same thing used to sign packages, right?
[09:00] <ogra> Amaranth, and signing a document with it.... 
[09:00] <mako> tritium: so what was your question?
[09:00] <mako> tritium: anything in particular?
[09:00] <tritium> perhaps we should discuss the role of the ops a little.  You mention the CoC.  I assume we're also there to help with questions (as is reasonable)
[09:00] <ogra> Amaranth, yep... it should be signed ....
[09:00] <Amaranth> err, what?
[09:00] <tritium> mako, from before during the CC?
[09:00] <mako> tritium: ops should be a good example
[09:01] <tritium> my concern earlier was my availability
[09:01] <ogra> Amaranth, ,,, by anyone from the strong connected set....(thats nearly everyone you find on the pgp servers)
[09:01] <mako> not afraid to use the power when they need to, also not using it unnecessarily
[09:01] <crimsun> Amaranth: can't op you since you're not in that channel ;)
[09:01] <mako> excercise good judgement, be helpful where you can
[09:01] <mako> correct people when they are wrong
[09:01] <mako> that's it
[09:01] <crimsun> Amaranth: n/m
[09:01] <ogra> mako, what if an op abuses his power
[09:01] <tritium> it's easy, as someone mentioned earlier, spending hours just answering question after question
[09:02] <mako> then they won't be an op anymore
[09:02] <Lathiat> tritium: ugh, i get sucked into that far too often.
[09:02] <Lathiat> largely because so many people give out bad info :\
[09:02] <mako> take whatever time you have
[09:02] <Amaranth> ogra: You've lost me. :/
[09:02] <Lathiat> and i feel sorry for the poor users, heh.
[09:02] <tritium> Yes, backports and ubuntuguide come to mind
[09:02] <mako> if you don't have loads of time, that's fine
[09:02] <ogra> Amaranth, i was talking about the key
[09:02] <mako> i'll be an op but i won't be paying attention to the channel very much
[09:02] <mako> that's life
[09:02] <ogra> mako, me too
[09:03] <mako> we want people who are there much of the time so they can play an important role there
[09:03] <Amaranth> ogra: I need someone to sign my key?
[09:03] <mako> but you're a volunteer and we understand that
[09:03] <ogra> Amaranth, to make it valid, yes
[09:03] <Amaranth> Lathiat: bit by ^W again?
[09:03] <Lathiat> i think the first goal should be to have someone with ops at least around 24/7 for other people to harass when some authority needs to be asserted.
[09:03] <Lathiat> Amaranth: yeh
[09:03] <Lathiat> Amaranth: i should install davyds packages that fix that
[09:03] <Amaranth> ogra: Ok, how do I do that?
[09:03] <Lathiat> but.. effort
[09:03] <Lathiat> when im bored
[09:03] <crimsun> tritium: bob2 described it pretty well (similar to what mako said): we're fairly hands-off in terms of muzzling or banning, warn lots before actually muzzling
[09:03] <ogra> Amaranth, meet someone else with a key in person.... sign each other
[09:04] <Amaranth> ha
[09:04] <Amaranth> i live in iowa
[09:04] <Lathiat> yeh, warning and diffusing helps with trolls, otherwise it just gets worse
[09:04] <ogra> Amaranth, at a LUG or at uni....
[09:04] <tritium> crimsun, good, I like that
[09:04] <mako> we don't need a #ubuntu irc war
[09:04] <Kamion> http://www.biglumber.com/x/web?qs=Iowa
[09:04] <Amaranth> ogra: Anyone could do it?
[09:04] <Kamion> I realise Iowa's a big place though
[09:04] <ogra> Amaranth, see Kamion 
[09:04] <Kamion> Amaranth: anyone who's already in the strongly-connected set
[09:04] <mako> i think if we're remotely respectful of each other, it'll be no problem
[09:05] <Kamion> or come to an Ubuntu conference :-)
[09:05] <ogra> yeah
[09:05] <ogra> that will catapult you in the top 1000 immediately
[09:05] <Simira> haha
[09:05] <Lathiat> Amaranth: ok
[09:05] <Lathiat> Amaranth: gpg keys
[09:05] <Lathiat> Amaranth: they can be 'signed'
[09:05] <mako> tritium: did you have other questions
[09:05] <JanC> Amaranth : preferably someone who's strongly involved in open source  ;-)
[09:05] <Lathiat> this means that someone else has verified that key belongs to you
[09:06] <Lathiat> it usually involves checking each otehrs photo ID to confirm they are them
[09:06] <Amaranth> I got that part, the strongly-connected part confused me though.
[09:06] <Lathiat> and manually (in person) checking the key fingerprint is correct
[09:06] <Lathiat> so then by signign peopels keys
[09:06] <Lathiat> you create a 'web of trust'
[09:06] <tritium> mako, just wondering about ChanServ issues
[09:06] <Amaranth> i'm on the other side of the state from the people on that website
[09:06] <Lathiat> so what you want is someone to sign your key
[09:06] <Lathiat> who has been signed by lots of other people
[09:06] <Lathiat> (in the ubuntu communit)
[09:06] <Lathiat> or at the very least, by 1
[09:08] <Amaranth> Ok, but none of those people live anywhere near me.
[09:08] <Kamion> Amaranth: strongly-connected basically means that you're linked into the same web of signings as everyone else
[09:09] <Kamion> Amaranth: (none of this is necessary for #ubuntu IRCopping or anything, in case there's confusion about that)
[09:09] <mako> tritium: i don't have chanserv access for that channel
[09:09] <mako> tritium: i'll find out who does and have them add the folks on taht list
[09:09] <Amaranth> ok
[09:09] <tritium> mako, thanks
[09:09] <Amaranth> would all that crap be required for motu? :P
[09:09] <mako> tritium: that's it?
[09:09] <ogra> Amaranth, yep
[09:09] <Amaranth> yeah, i think i'll just get someone else to package my stuff
[09:09] <Kamion> I believe that's jdub
[09:09] <crimsun> (yep, gotta be a member to be a maintainer ;)
[09:09] <ogra> Amaranth, because your key is your identity 
[09:10] <Kamion> and possibly lamont/fabbione/Keybuk
[09:10] <Kamion> mako: ^--
[09:10] <tritium> mako, yeah, sorry.  I didn't mean to keep you around.
[09:10] <ogra> Amaranth, andyou verify your responsibility by signing the package
[09:10] <Amaranth> so how are all these people getting accepted for motu then? i doubt they're all meeting those guys in person
[09:10] <mako> Kamion: cool
[09:10] <Lathiat> Amaranth: other people can sponsor the packages
[09:11] <Lathiat> and upload them
[09:11] <Lathiat> rather than the person doing it
[09:11] <ogra> Amaranth, one who has a signe key is enough
[09:11] <mako> Amaranth: they are meeting someone who i meeting someone who is meeting those guys
[09:11] <Kamion> Amaranth: everyone who can upload has met up with somebody
[09:11] <Kamion> Amaranth: Debian does this too - regardless of what you might have heard, getting one's key signed is usually not the hard part there
[09:11] <Amaranth> heh
[09:12] <Amaranth> well, it's the hard part for me, i live in the middle of the country with no one even remotely near me
[09:12] <Amaranth> i'll just try to get sponsors
[09:13] <Amaranth> btw, what's that biglumber.com site for?
[09:13] <mako> Amaranth: you must sometimes spend some time in a place where there are other computer users
[09:14] <ogra> Amaranth, seeing where you find someone to sign you
[09:14] <mako> Amaranth: the site for people want to meet up and sign keys with other people :)
[09:14] <Amaranth> well, i'm in omaha right now and lots of people are listed but i don't see how i can get someone to sign my key
[09:14] <Kamion> mail them and ask
[09:15] <mako> Amaranth: yeah dude.. just mail and ask.. if you're in omaha, you can definitely find someone
[09:15] <Kamion> the people listed on biglumber are just those who signed themselves up there offering to sign keys, not everyone in the strong set
[09:15] <ogra> Amaranth, they have put their data there intentional ;)
[09:15] <mako> Amaranth: you meet up and you ahve coffee/tea/beer/whatever.. you chat about computers, you exchange information
[09:15] <mako> you get a key signed and you make a friend
[09:15] <Kamion> yeah, it's meant to be a social thing
[09:15] <mako> i've met lots of great people through keysigning
[09:16] <Amaranth> heh, there's the problem ;)
[09:16] <amu> .. ah thats the keytrinking and beersinging thing :) 
[09:16] <tritium> Amaranth, just don't touch mako's passport
[09:16] <Amaranth> I don't do social things much. If I did I wouldn't be on IRC so much. :)
[09:16] <ogra> hehe
[09:16] <mako> dude, i've had places to stay while traveling through people i met originally throug hkeysignings :)
[09:16] <mako> Amaranth: yes, but chances are, these people ALSO do irc
[09:16] <crimsun> yeah, keysignings are great for prospective couches
[09:17] <Lathiat> heh
[09:17] <Amaranth> damn, i missed the Omaha LUG
[09:17] <Amaranth> it was may 3rd
[09:17] <mako> yeah, that would have been good
[09:17] <mako> whatever dude, just mail the people on the biglumber
[09:17] <mako> organize a meeting at a bar of cafe of your choice
[09:18] <mako> then run with it
[09:19] <Amaranth> crimsun: btw, what happens when i get disconnected? do i need you to op me again?
[09:19] <Amaranth> crimsun: since i'm not in the access list
[09:21] <mako> Amaranth: chanserv
[09:21] <mako> Amaranth: you will be
[09:22] <crimsun> or bug one of the other ops (/me points at tritium ;)
[09:22] <crimsun> (I'm not in the access list either)
[09:24] <tritium> none of us are yet.  We just help each other out in the meantime
[09:24] <Amaranth> ok
[09:25] <Amaranth> oh, one last thing
[09:25] <Amaranth> does anyone have logs of the meeting?
[09:26] <ggross> i must have it
[09:26] <tritium> fabbione does
[09:26] <Kamion> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ will get them in time
[09:26] <Kamion> (automatically)
[09:26] <Amaranth> thanks
[09:26] <Lathiat> i'd be happy to help out operator wise, as i am around irc alot of the day, but im not really widely involved with the project yet and nor am i a member yet, where does that leave me?
[09:28] <crimsun> you should really apply for membership
[09:28] <tritium> mako, thanks again for your support on membership, and for the ops meeting
[09:29] <Lathiat> crimsun: i plan to
[09:29] <Lathiat> trying to get involved more with MOTU atm
[09:30] <dholbach> wohoo!
[09:30] <crimsun> excellent
[09:30] <Lathiat> i'm already doing a lot of local advocacy etc
[09:31] <Lathiat> got quite a few people at my uni interested and actually using it, gave away a stack of warty cds with quite a few bites, etc. eagerly awaiting my hoary cds.
[09:32] <tritium> is it true that membership comes with an @ubuntu.com email address?
[09:33] <ogra> yep
[09:33] <ogra> eventually
[09:34] <dholbach> at some stage :-)
[09:34] <tritium> nice ;)
[09:38] <\sh> pray that the machine is coming up again
[09:38] <\sh> it's my old redhat 7.2 installation on a dual pIII 
[09:39] <Lathiat> heh
[09:39] <\sh> and i had to reboot it the hard way
[09:39] <\sh> unplug powercable
[09:39] <\sh> and ext2+ext3 as fs :(
[09:40] <Lathiat> \sh: no magic sysrq key in kernel?
[09:40] <Lathiat> alt+sysrq+s is a life saver
[09:40] <Lathiat> ext2 is ouch
[09:40] <\sh> Lathiat: well...not remoteley
[09:40] <Lathiat> ext3 shoudl be ok
[09:48] <\sh> phew
[09:48] <\sh> up and running
[09:49] <\sh> i did a good job i have to say...right now i'm really proud of me...and the customers on this server are happy too
[09:50] <Lathiat> what happened?
[09:52] <\sh> well.
[09:52] <\sh> there was a temp mysql file in /tmp
[09:52] <\sh> it ate all the space on the /tmp part
[09:52] <\sh> so nothing worked...no mysql nothing
[09:52] <\sh> but it wasn't shown as a big fat file...it showed only 100kb
[09:53] <\sh> i couldn't kill mysql, cause it tried to write to this file...
[09:53] <\sh> syncing disks didn't help 
[09:54] <\sh> so...I had 2 ptys running sync couldn't stop them in any way...the next decision was: hard reboot via powerswitch
[09:54] <\sh> the only fear i had was ext2+ext3 
[09:54] <\sh> i had some nasty crashes earlier on with ext3
[09:55] <Lathiat> heh
[09:55] <Lathiat> fun
[09:55] <\sh> but it looks like the server liked it the way I handled it ;) most likely this server had a sm treatment ;)