[12:08] <doko> jbailey: did you have a chance to look at the glibc build failure?
[12:17] <jbailey> doko: I haven't.  I'm going to try to setup a chroot here later to see if I can figure out if gcc's being called with something weird.
[12:17] <jbailey> (or if it is, in fact, missing unwind support for some reason)
[12:19] <doko> jbailey: ok, I'm going to ignore this issue for now, I will just build no biarch compilers until this problem is solved
[12:20] <jbailey> doko: BTW, did you remove the biarch compiler from amd64 too?
[12:21] <doko> no, should I?
[12:22] <jbailey> No, lamont just asked me about a problem building the biarch glibc on amd64, I wondered if you had removed it.
[12:22] <jbailey> If you had, it would've saved me digging out a config.log for that too.
[12:22] <lamont> jbailey: fakeroot
[12:23] <lamont> or is that fakeroot's build trying to use the gcc-4.0 biarch glibc and failing?
[12:23] <jbailey> Oh, I get it.
[12:23] <jbailey> I thought you were building glibc. =)
[12:24] <mx|gone> jbailey: did you see kamion's message to me earlier about hotplug running slow?
[12:24] <jbailey> gimme a sec, hopefully I can check that one quickly.
[12:25] <jbailey> mx|gone: The one where he told you to install grepmap?
[12:25] <mxpxpod> jbailey: yeah
[12:25] <jbailey> mxpxpod: Nope. =)
[12:25] <mxpxpod> jbailey: :P
[12:25] <mxpxpod> anyway, just making sure you saw that so you can install it on your i386 laptop
[12:26] <mxpxpod> gotta get home to the wife
[12:26] <mxpxpod> talk to you later
[12:37] <mdz> grepmap has been part of the standard install for ages
[12:39] <Nafallo> ehm, tomboy want me to install -dev. should it do that?
[12:39] <jdub> Nafallo: yeah
[12:39] <jbailey> mdz: It's probably folks moving from Debian to Ubuntu who didn't install ubuntu-base
[12:40] <Nafallo> jdub: oki. btw, I didn't thought I was in this channel ;-). morning to you :-).
[12:40] <tseng> Nafallo: buh?
[12:40] <tseng> did ogra add -dev stuff
[12:40] <jdub> tseng: yeah - stuck with it for some things
[12:40] <Nafallo> tseng: must be tomboys deps that deps...
[12:40] <ogra> tseng, nope...
[12:41] <Nafallo> libdbus-cil deps dbus-glib-1-dev for example...
[12:43] <Nafallo> I commented to quick. it's all dbus stuff that deps.
[12:44] <ogra> ogra@honk:~/tomboy-0.3.2 $ apt-cache depends tomboy
[12:44] <ogra> tomboy
[12:44] <ogra>   Hngt ab: libdbus-cil
[12:44] <ogra>   Hngt ab: libgnome-cil
[12:44] <ogra>   Hngt ab: libglib-cil
[12:44] <ogra>   Hngt ab: libgtk-cil
[12:44] <ogra> yep
[12:47] <robertj> " I was planning on broadcasting available shared backgrounds through the Zeroconf protocol so that other people could view them and subscribe to my background images"
[12:47] <robertj> bwahaha
[01:00] <ogra> WTF
[01:00] <ogra> # monodis - temporary wrapper script for .libs/monodis
[01:00] <ogra> # Generated by ltmain.sh - GNU libtool 1.5.2 (1.1220.2.60 2004/01/25 12:25:08)
[01:00] <ogra> #
[01:00] <ogra> # The monodis program cannot be directly executed until all the libtool
[01:00] <ogra> # libraries that it depends on are installed.
[01:00] <ogra> #
[01:00] <ogra> # This wrapper script should never be moved out of the build directory.
[01:00] <ogra> # If it is, it will not operate correctly.
[01:00] <ogra> how the hell did that end up in the package.... in /usr/bin
[01:00] <ogra> tseng ^^^^^^^^^
[01:01] <tseng> it was used in dh_netdeps
[01:01] <tseng> and worked fine
[01:01] <ogra> but thats a build wrapper if i get it right
[01:01] <tseng> oh uh
[01:01] <tseng> wow
[01:01] <ogra> so instead of the actual binary the build wrapper is istalled in the package...
[01:01] <tseng> yes
[01:02] <tseng> do you see the binary?
[01:02] <ogra> nope
[01:02] <ogra> its nonexistent
[01:03] <jdub> *blink*
[01:06] <ogra> aha
[01:06] <ogra> found it in the build tree...
[01:06] <tseng> yeah
[01:06] <ogra> so it gets built but the wrapper is never run
[01:07] <ogra> or better... is broken somewhere internally
[01:07] <ogra> HA 
[01:07] <ogra> !
[01:07] <ogra> -lpthread 
[01:07] <tseng> does this wrapper even matter outside the build tree?
[01:08] <ogra> there it is...
[01:08] <ogra> its for relinking... 
[01:09] <tseng> and failts on amd on pthread?
[01:09] <ogra> i would guess so
[01:09] <tseng> i have the wrapper installed also
[01:09] <tseng> something is more wrong than that
[01:09] <ogra> hmm
[01:10] <tseng> the wrong thing is being installed in any case
[01:10] <tseng> mono-utils.install:debian/tmp/usr/bin/monodis
[01:11] <ogra> hmm
[01:14] <tseng> rules:	dh_install -i -Xbin/mono -Xbin/monodiet -Xbin/monodis -Xbin/monograph -Xbin/pedump -Xbin/jay
[01:14] <tseng> why both?
[01:15] <ogra> good question
[01:15] <ogra> i didnt add that
[01:15] <tseng> its from meebey
[01:17] <tseng> bbiaf im doing a build
[01:17] <tseng> to look at the finished tree
[01:25] <tseng> so
[01:25] <tseng> brandon@lappy:~/work/debian/mono-1.1.7$ file ./mono/dis/monodis
[01:25] <tseng> ./mono/dis/monodis: Bourne shell script text executable
[01:25] <tseng> brandon@lappy:~/work/debian/mono-1.1.7$ file ./mono/dis/.libs/monodis
[01:25] <tseng> ./mono/dis/.libs/monodis: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.2.0, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped
[01:26] <tseng> brandon@lappy:~/work/debian/mono-1.1.7$ mono/dis/.libs/monodis  --version
[01:26] <tseng> monodis -- Mono Common Intermediate Language Dissassembler
[01:26] <tseng> we need to install that instead
[01:26] <tseng> i wonder at what point the other one gets to /usr/bin
[01:26] <ogra> i'm just doing a testbuild
[01:27] <ajmitch_> it's usual for libtool scripts to be around, but not after a make install
[01:27] <ajmitch_> still compiling here..
[01:34] <daniels> tseng: right -- debian/tmp/usr/bin/monodis should be fine
[01:34] <daniels> mono/dis/monodis is not what you want; libtool should DTRT in this case
[01:34] <daniels> mono/dis/monodis exists so libtool can set up the right paths and stuff so you can run it in-tree
[01:34] <tseng> yes
[01:34] <tseng> but that file is winding up in /usr/bin
[01:35] <tseng> and installed in lieu of the real deal
[01:35] <tseng> mono/dis/Makefile is a bit fishy I think
[01:35] <daniels> so debian/tmp/usr/bin/monodis is just the script?
[01:35] <tseng> yes
[01:35] <daniels> wack
[01:35] <tseng> totally
[01:35] <ogra> the binary is in /usr/bin/.libs/monodis
[01:36] <daniels> if you put the Makefile.am up somewhere, I can check it out
[01:36] <ogra> err mono/dis/.libs/monodis
[01:36] <tseng> http://tseng.ath.cx/Makefile.am is mono/dis/Makefile.am
[01:37] <tseng> bin_PROGRAMS = monodis < doesnt smell right to me
[01:37] <tseng> since im assuming that goes with the one in cwd
[01:37] <tseng> with no reference to .libs
[01:37] <daniels> actually, that one's fine
[01:38] <daniels> probably a busted autotools setup when all the files were generated
[01:40] <tseng> buh
[01:41] <tseng> do we want to just do a mono-utils.install bit?
[01:42] <tseng> rm it in rules
[01:42] <ogra> sounds saner
[01:42] <tseng> install the right one in .install
[01:42] <tseng> wtf not :P
[01:43] <ogra> i think the libtool script has a meaning... :P
[01:43] <tseng> in the build process
[01:43] <tseng> not in the deb
[01:43] <ogra> but as a quick workaround ...
[01:43] <tseng> ok ill go to dinner, and if you dont come up with something else
[01:44] <tseng> ill do it like I said
[01:44] <tseng> cya soon :)
[01:44] <ogra> ok... its nearly 2am here... i think i'll leave it to you for now :)
[01:44] <tseng> k, rock on
[01:44] <ogra> yeah
[01:47] <jdub> zounds! 2.6.12! :-)
[01:49] <crimsun> thankfully there won't be l-r-m, and it's in universe! ;)
[01:52] <daniels> tseng: bin_PROGRAMS should install the right thing to $(bindir)/foo
[01:52] <daniels> if it doesn't, that's a bug
[01:52] <tseng> yeah dude but the program isnt in the directory
[01:52] <tseng> its below it in .libs
[01:52] <daniels> try running autoreconf -v --install --force with a halfway sane build environment (sensible versions of automake and libtool, recommend 1.8 and 5.r respectively)
[01:53] <daniels> sure, so that's a problem with the build env :)
[01:57] <Amaranth> hey, what's this new notification thing?
[01:57] <Amaranth> i got it when i upgraded to 2.6.12
[01:57] <tseng> the what now?
[01:57] <Amaranth> is it a replacement for sending emails to root?
[01:57] <jdub> yes
[01:57] <Amaranth> neat
[01:58] <Amaranth> does it require extra code or does sending an email to root@localhost do it?
[02:40] <lamont> off to fire training, back in ~4 hours
[02:56] <tseng> daniels: eh, the binary is in the same place
[02:57] <daniels> tseng: hm?
[02:57] <tseng> monodis
[02:57] <tseng> after retooling
[02:58] <tseng> still wrong
[02:58] <daniels> blegh
[02:58] <daniels> bug Keybuk when he comes back around
[02:58] <tseng> might try BenM
[03:28] <jcole> hey guys, i've been using debian for a few years and have had "deb http://snapshot.debian.net/archive pool gcm" (gnome clipboard manager, similar to klipper) in my sources.list forever with no problems whatsoever... it also works fine in ubuntu warty/hoary/breezy... try it out (apt-get install gcm) and tell me what you think
[03:29] <tseng> please put it on UniverseCandidates page on the wiki
[03:29] <jcole> i think debian didn't like the way it was designed since it didn't hook into X, but hell, it works
[03:30] <jcole> tseng: ok
[03:30] <ajmitch_> it was removed from debian at some point?
[03:31] <jcole> ajmitch_: ya, because it "polled" the clipboard instead of "hooking" into it
[03:31] <jcole> ajmitch_: what's funny is klipper does the same
[03:32] <tritium> gcm is listed here: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DesktopSeedProposals
[03:36] <jcole> tritium: great!
[03:37] <tritium> jcole, yeah, I just remembered having seen it there, but I'd still do as tseng says :)
[03:38] <jcole> tritium: ok
[03:38] <tseng> it cant much be in desktop if we dont even have a package
[04:13] <jblack> Hiya. Any motus present? 
[04:16] <mdz> jblack: perhaps try #ubuntu-motu
[04:17] <jblack> (grin) Seems that there's a lot of #ubuntus, and I'm always in the wrong one. :) 
[04:21] <jsgotangco> morning!
[04:26] <ajmitch_> hey jerome
[04:31] <jsgotangco> hey
[04:43] <bluefoxicy> http://rafb.net/paste/results/a7pdC914.html
[04:43] <Lathiat> man, #Ubuntu is such a time suck.
[04:44] <bob2> yes
[04:44] <bluefoxicy> i want something visually like the above
[04:45] <bluefoxicy> in fact I started writing it and my head exploded because I had about a billion security concerns, though I'm quickly figuring out the basics
[04:45] <Lathiat> bob2: sigh, it just pisses me off all the bad advice that floats around and i end up in there for hours, heh.
[04:46] <bob2> I know the feeling
[04:46] <Lathiat> i need to augment the faq
[04:46] <bob2> the clueless leading the...
[04:46] <Lathiat> and then keep a list of URLs for common questions
[04:46] <Lathiat> sick of typing out instructions for shit like adding unvierse
[04:46] <Lathiat> universe
[04:49] <ajmitch_> afternoon
[04:49] <bob2> aloha
[04:49] <ajmitch_> Lathiat: so long as you don't encourge b*ckp*rts
[04:49] <ajmitch_> bob2: how goes the pit?
[04:49] <Lathiat> ajmitch_: heh
[04:49] <Lathiat> b*ckp*rts and ubuntug*u*de are teh sux
[04:49] <bob2> ajmitch_: we prefer to call it "canberra"!
[04:50] <bob2> ajmitch_: but it's getting cold
[04:50] <Lathiat> heh canberra
[04:50] <Lathiat> was there a few weeks ago
[04:50] <bob2> ajmitch_: how goes ye olde nz?
[04:50] <ajmitch_> colder than canberra
[04:50] <bob2> Lathiat: I hear we had some sort of linux conference here??
[04:50] <ajmitch_> and nearly as boring
[04:50] <bob2> harsh!
[04:50] <jsgotangco> nz is boring?
[04:51] <Lathiat> bob2: yeh :)
[04:51] <ajmitch_> dunedin isn't too bad when there's students around
[04:51] <jsgotangco> i guess otago u can be boring during the vacation
[04:51] <ajmitch_> yep
[04:54] <Lathiat> blah
[04:54] <Lathiat> ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats lists backports
[04:54] <Lathiat> well, its extras
[04:54] <Lathiat> close enough
[04:54] <ajmitch_> yes, that was changed only a couple of days ago..
[04:55] <Lathiat> ugh
[04:55] <Lathiat> now i dont have the urls for the other crap to give someone
[04:55] <jsgotangco> anyone familiar how yelp works with scrollkeeper?
[05:04] <Lathiat> ugh, someone pay me to sit in #ubuntu all day so i can not stop
[05:05] <jsgotangco> heh
[05:22] <Burgundavia> Lathiat, hoary-extras is better than marilliat, trust me
[05:31] <bob2> where's pitti when I want to whinge about about g-v-m not working
[05:32] <Lathiat> hiding
[05:32] <zul> er...asleep maybe
[06:37] <Lathiat> synaptic could really do witha  roll-back option
[06:39] <bob2> not possible
[06:39] <lifeless> bob2: erm. possible. not trivial
[06:39] <jdub> Lathiat: or, even better:
[06:39] <jdub> http://people.ubuntu.com/~jdub/screenshots/synaptic-remove-all-packages-dialogue.jpg
[06:39] <Lathiat> hahaha
[06:39] <bob2> lifeless: wellm not within synaptic
[06:40] <Lathiat> well, more to the point
[06:40] <Lathiat> you install some packages
[06:40] <Lathiat> that install stuff
[06:40] <Lathiat> be nice to be able to uninstall stuff and the shit it pulled in
[06:43] <fabbione> morning
[06:48] <lu|away> jdub: best dialog ever
[06:51] <bob2> the en_AU translation team needs to get on to synaptic
[06:53] <mdz> bob2: aren't you the en_AU translation team?
[06:53] <bob2> not since the bazaar incident.
[07:17] <Lathiat> Burgundavia: hoary-extras is not better than marillat
[07:17] <Lathiat> their media stuff doesnt even work
[07:21] <jsgotangco> is that so
[07:21] <jsgotangco> hmm
[07:24] <fabbione> doko: gcc-3.4 is still FTBFS on sparc. same libvtest3 error as last time
[07:44] <dholbach> morning
[07:48] <jsgotangco> dholbach, hey
[07:48] <dholbach> hey jsgotangco 
[08:10] <dholbach> good morning, JaneW 
[08:10] <JaneW> morning dholbach 
[08:41] <pitti> morning
[08:42] <KaiL_> early one
[08:43] <mdz> pitti: morning
[08:44] <pitti> Dc mef
[08:44] <fabbione> hey pitti
[08:44] <pitti> Hi mdz
[08:44] <fabbione> hey mdz
[08:44] <dholbach> morning pitti, mdz, fabbione :-)
[08:44] <fabbione> hi dholbach 
[08:44] <daniels> morning *
[08:44] <fabbione> hey dani
[08:44] <dholbach> hey daniels :-)
[08:45] <daniels> mdz: you're UTC-7 now?
[08:45] <pitti> daniels!
[08:45] <mdz> daniels: yes
[08:45] <daniels> pitti: yo dude :)
[08:45] <pitti> daniels: yesterday we collected all the bits and pieces for the Utopia transition
[08:45] <daniels> mdz: is that with or without daylight savings?
[08:45] <pitti> daniels: it's a bumpy upgrade, and we still have this (rather cosmetical) hal error, but it generally works
[08:45] <daniels> pitti: awesome!  so are you only waiting on dbus?
[08:46] <daniels> pitti: well, that's what breezy's for
[08:46] <pitti> daniels: actually yes
[08:46] <daniels> if anyone's actually using it, serves them right
[08:46] <KaiL_> fabbione: who needs partitions? 1 disk, 1 filesystem ;)
[08:46] <pitti> daniels: after you upload, I do pmount/gvm/hal, and seb does the gnomeish things
[08:46] <pitti> daniels: mvo prepared a new update-notifier
[08:46] <daniels> pitti: ok, I'll prepare 0.33-0ubuntu1 without mono and we'll go fromthere
[08:46] <daniels> cool
[08:46] <daniels> pitti: i'll just go grab a drink, 'cause my uplink is saturated; give it about half an hour?
[08:46] <pitti> daniels: oh, wasn't there already a -cil?
[08:47] <pitti> daniels: of course, no hurry. 
[08:47] <daniels> pitti: yeah, but mono's in universe still
[08:47] <pitti> ah, right
[08:47] <pitti> thom: here?
[08:47] <fabbione> mdz: InstallerVolumeManagement updated.
[08:47] <daniels> pitti: so every upstream release I'd have to hand-roll a tarball with some autoconf/automake stuff I hacked up, it was pretty nasty
[08:47] <fabbione> mdz: do we also need to update the status in breezygoals?
[08:47] <pitti> daniels: urgs
[08:47] <pitti> daniels: however, why can't dbus-cil not stay in universe for a while?
[08:48] <pitti> daniels: ah, for the build-depends, nevermind
[08:48] <daniels> pitti: yeah, all its b-ds need to come into main
[08:48] <daniels> doesn't matter, mono is apparently pretty broken right now anyway
[08:49] <mdz> daniels: we are on daylight time now
[08:49] <mdz> without is -8
[08:49] <daniels> mdz: ah, righto.
[08:52] <KaiL_> fabbione: are there plans for integrating "external" GPLed drivers like rt2500 into linux-image? Or some "linux-free-modules"?
[08:52] <fabbione> KaiL_: nothing to do with partitions
[08:52] <fabbione> KaiL_: it has been done already in breezy
[08:52] <fabbione> please check the changelog
[08:53] <KaiL_> I'll do as soon as packages.u.c awakes *g*
[08:53] <jdub> fabbione: i'
[08:53] <jdub> fabbione: i'm running 2.6.12 on my laptop now :)
[08:53] <Lathiat> me too as of just then
[08:53] <fabbione> jdub: neat.. does it work?
[08:53] <Lathiat> works great
[08:53] <jdub> fabbione: it does :-)
[08:54] <fabbione> eheh
[08:54] <Lathiat> i wonder if gamin is using inotify
[08:54] <fabbione> no it doesn't
[08:54] <jdub> Lathiat: nup
[08:54] <jdub> Lathiat: going to do an upload tonight
[08:54] <fabbione> gamin inotify backend is utterly broken
[08:54] <fabbione> jdub: no please!
[08:54] <KaiL_> oh, .12 packages
[08:54] <Lathiat> yeh i just thought i saw someone mention something about a cvs version
[08:54] <fabbione> it has been disabled for a reason
[08:54] <jdub> fabbione: yeah, i disabled it :-)
[08:54] <fabbione> no i did
[08:54] <Lathiat> i also have beagle love
[08:55] <jdub> fabbione: but there is work being done in cvs which will help
[08:55] <fabbione> jdub: can you please wait a few days?
[08:55] <fabbione> because there is another inotify kernel patch that needs to go in
[08:55] <jdub> sure, i'll wait for that ;)
[08:55] <fabbione> and i don't want to fight with extra debugging problems
[08:55] <fabbione> because userland and kernel do not match
[08:56] <cartman> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/t/tar/1.15.1-1/ <-- looks like a gcc4 problem. anyone?
[08:56] <KaiL_> daniels: about the mouse issues: I have an Logitech MX510 here and are trying to get it working - at least the sidebuttons are done
[08:56] <KaiL_> that mouse behaves a bit silly, as some buttons send 2 events
[08:56] <fabbione> cartman: mostlikely 
[08:57] <cartman> new tar is ueber cool,someone fix it please *g*
[08:57] <lamont> cartel_: sounds about right.
[08:57] <Lathiat> yay beagle works
[08:58] <Lathiat> sees gaim, blam, files, evolution mail
[08:58] <fabbione> night lamont
[08:58] <dholbach> bye lamont 
[08:59] <pitti> night lamont 
[08:59] <Lathiat> http://bur.st/~lathiat/beagle.png
[08:59] <Treenaks> Lathiat: no porn? :)
[09:00] <daniels> KaiL_: cool
[09:00] <Lathiat> "the other fruits of my pleasures..." heh
[09:00] <Lathiat> anyone watch the last novell brainshare keynote?
[09:00] <Lathiat> nat is a laugh
[09:00] <KaiL_> and whoever did: powernowd works again, even as it still doesn't like my Sempron ;)
[09:01] <Lathiat> yeh
[09:02] <HrdwrBoB> powernowd whinges about my opterons because I'm too lazy to change it
[09:02] <HrdwrBoB> I just stuck the module in /etc/modules
[09:02] <KaiL_> also some "This processor "AMD Sempron(tm) Processor 3100+" is known _not_ to support power-saving."?
[09:02] <HrdwrBoB> yeah
[09:03] <KaiL_> somebody should give the upstream author some K8 ;)
[09:04] <Treenaks> Kamion: final?
[09:05] <Treenaks> uh
[09:05] <Treenaks> kail
[09:05] <Treenaks> so THAT's whay tab didn't work..
[09:06] <fabbione> no.. it's not final
[09:06] <fabbione> it's rc4
[09:06] <bob2> a sempron isn't a k8
[09:11] <eruin> hmm, I wonder how much hacking would be involved to get beagle to play with gaim
[09:11] <eruin> err, gmail
[09:13] <Lathiat> damn
[09:13] <Lathiat> thats alot of mozilla issues
[09:13] <pitti> Lathiat: indeed :-/
[09:14] <Lathiat> go mozilla
[09:20] <fabbione> YAY
[09:20] <fabbione>  /dev/mapper/bla-bla    34G  408M   33G   2% /
[09:22] <toresbe> fabbione: uh... yay!
[09:22] <Treenaks> only 34G? :P
[09:22] <fabbione> you all suck :P
[09:22] <fabbione> that's really not the point of it ;)
[09:22] <zyga> pitti: hey
[09:22] <zyga> pitti: does it work okay for you?
[09:23] <pitti> fabbione: 2.6.12 boots, sound, network, usb, hotplug, gvfs, and even the update-notifier thingy work
[09:23] <fabbione> pitti: rocking
[09:23] <pitti> zyga: yes, pretty fine; at least it doesn't break horribly
[09:23] <pitti> fabbione: you rock :-)
[09:23] <fabbione> what is gvfs?
[09:23] <pitti> fabbione: I'll try powerpc later tpday
[09:23] <zyga> pitti: do you have any ati/nvidia card that could use properiarity drivers?
[09:23] <pitti> today, even
[09:23] <KaiL> result from the update: nothing changed, neigher negative nor positive (means ACPI S1/S3 still broken)
[09:23] <jdub> fabbione: short for gnome-vfs?
[09:23] <pitti> zyga: I have, but I can't use nvidia-glx with 2.6.12
[09:24] <pitti> fabbione: right, gnome-vfs
[09:24] <fabbione> jdub: ahhhh that's not a kernel module :)
[09:24] <jdub> fabbione: thankfully not! :)
[09:25] <Lathiat> i jsut installed the drivers from nvidia
[09:25] <Lathiat> since my suspend works on the latest anyway
[09:25] <Lathiat> as opposed to the older packaged ones
[09:25] <zyga> pitti: why not? it's not compatible that bad?
[09:26] <KaiL> pitti: you need a "linux-restricted-modules-2.6.12-1-386" :))
[09:27] <fabbione> there is no l-r-m for 2.6.12
[09:27] <fabbione> and there will be none until 2.6.12 is final
[09:27] <fabbione> and in main
[09:27] <ajmitch_> evening charles
[09:28] <chmj> erm, morning ajmitch_ 
[09:28] <ajmitch_> :)
[09:31] <dholbach> bye guys!
[09:31] <jsgotangco> bye
[09:40] <fabbione> bbl
[09:40] <bob2> GO GO GO GO
[09:55] <daniels> Lathiat: uhm, you do know that we have the latest nvidia drivers, right?
[09:55] <Lathiat> daniels: we do?
[09:55] <Lathiat> i hadnt noticed
[09:55] <Lathiat> not on 2.6.12 anyway :)
[09:55] <daniels> yeah, we have 1.0.7174
[09:55] <Lathiat> ah cool
[09:56] <daniels> nah, no l-r-m for .12 yet
[09:56] <Lathiat> didnt see the udpate
[09:56] <daniels> we've had it since before hoary final
[09:56] <Lathiat> really?
[09:56] <jsgotangco> yeah
[09:56] <Lathiat> humm
[09:56] <jsgotangco> restricted
[09:56] <daniels> dbus 0.33-0ubuntu1 uploaded; go nuts
[09:56] <Lathiat> how did i miss that
[09:56] <Lathiat> daniels: is that goign to break my beagle? :P
[09:56] <daniels> lathi	badly
[09:56] <Lathiat> what about hal and udev? :)
[09:57] <daniels> it'll stay broken until mono a) gets fixed, and b) gets put into main
[09:57] <daniels> it'll break hal, udev, pmount, gnome-volume-manager, chunks of nautilus
[09:57] <daniels> epiphany
[09:57] <daniels> anything that uses dbus is now broken
[09:57] <daniels> have fun!
[09:57] <Lathiat> well next version of beagle doesnt use dbus anyway
[09:57] <Lathiat> who looks after hal and stuff?
[09:57] <Lathiat> cus i heard they are updated
[09:57] <daniels> pitti looks after hal; he and seb128 already have the transition (including hal 0.5.x) well in hand
[09:57] <pitti> Lathiat: I will upload pmount, hal, g-v-m shortly
[09:57] <Lathiat> pitti: cool.
[09:57] <pitti> GO UTOPIA GO!
[09:58] <seb128> I will upload the gnome stuff then
[09:59] <Lathiat> what does epiphany use d-bus for?
[09:59] <Treenaks> Lathiat: beagle.xpi?
[09:59] <Lathiat> oh right
[09:59] <Lathiat> i want that
[09:59] <seb128> Lathiat: network magic
[10:00] <seb128> Lathiat: it can talk with networkmanager
[10:01] <jsgotangco> pitti, PDA Support just became High Priority
[10:01] <pitti> argh
[10:01] <jsgotangco> gyaahh
[10:01] <Treenaks> jsgotangco: pda support! \o/
[10:01] <pitti> that's a f**ing brain dump, why that?
[10:01] <\sh> gna
[10:01] <\sh> morning btw
[10:01] <jsgotangco> mdz edited the wiki
[10:02] <jsgotangco> The following page has been changed by MattZimmerman:
[10:02] <jsgotangco> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/PDASupport
[10:02] <jsgotangco> The comment on the change is:
[10:02] <jsgotangco> high priority
[10:03] <Lathiat> the comment on multisync is wrong...
[10:03] <Lathiat> my version is workign fine with multisync
[10:03] <Lathiat> *evolution
[10:03] <ajmitch_> pitti: they think you're not working enough yet? :)
[10:03] <Lathiat> it was fixed at some point
[10:03] <pitti> ajmitch_: I don't even have a PDA (I have a notebook...), so I'm not going to lead that anyway :-)
[10:03] <Lathiat> i have an ipaq and palm V and can test stuff against palm, ppc2002, opie, gpe
[10:03] <Lathiat> and have multisync syncing to my phoen via BT too
[10:04] <jsgotangco> i have a broken ppc and a very old usr palm
[10:04] <Lathiat> getting the pocketpc stuff to work is a bit of an ass tho
[10:04] <Lathiat> (synce)
[10:04] <ajmitch_> hi mjg59 
[10:05] <jsgotangco> i think for PDA support to move we have to focus on certain devices
[10:05] <jsgotangco> instead of trying to run them all
[10:05] <Lathiat> yeh
[10:05] <Lathiat> palms are pocketpc are common
[10:05] <Lathiat> which covers most major stuff anyway....
[10:06] <Lathiat> theres also the zaurus/opie stuff
[10:06] <jsgotangco> palms are a given since it has major support
[10:06] <jsgotangco> but the zaurus stuff is ewww
[10:06] <Lathiat> i foudn the palm stuff didnt work very well
[10:06] <Lathiat> the opie/zaurus multisync is totally broken
[10:06] <Lathiat> the gpe sync kinda works
[10:06] <Lathiat> (gpe is a linux/GTK based palm environment for ipaqs)
[10:06] <jsgotangco> whatever happened to kitchensync
[10:06] <Lathiat> that exists
[10:06] <Lathiat> its a kde thing..
[10:06] <Lathiat> i think
[10:06] <jsgotangco> it had promise before when i was active in oz
[10:07] <jsgotangco> but i made the biggest mistake of trading my zaurus for an ipaq
[10:08] <daniels> unfortunately my ipaq is totally unsupported by linux
[10:08] <Lathiat> daniels: yeh, shame
[10:08] <Lathiat> i have a 3870 which is totally supported
[10:08] <Lathiat> sound, bluetooth, everything
[10:08] <Lathiat> they even got SD cards working now
[10:08] <jsgotangco> how much do those things cost at the moment
[10:08] <Lathiat> i was under the impression that was legally dubios
[10:09] <jdub> "iPaq linux: Because battery life is just as bad as battery hens."
[10:09] <Lathiat> i dont find that...
[10:10] <jsgotangco> its strange i just read somewhere that pda sales are increasing again
[10:10] <jsgotangco> (the ones with wireless though)
[10:10] <daniels> jdub: haha
[10:19] <jsgotangco> poor hens
[10:19] <bob2> wish my battery lasted longer
[10:21] <KaiL> and the next :)
[10:22] <fabbione> Kamion: you awake yet?
[10:22] <Kamion> fabbione: yes
[10:22] <fabbione> Kamion: i started looking at InstallerVolumeManagement
[10:23] <fabbione> Kamion: i was searching for partman-auto-lvm.. is it in the archive at all?
[10:23] <fabbione> or is it part of another package?
[10:23] <Kamion> I added it to the installer seed yesterday or thereabouts
[10:23] <Kamion> it's a package by itself
[10:23] <Kamion> hm, although it isn't in universe
[10:24] <Kamion> oh, nobody ever uploaded it to Debian
[10:24] <Kamion> I'll take care of that
[10:24] <fabbione> eheh ok
[10:24] <fabbione> i would also like a review/comments on the first bits of the investigation
[10:24] <fabbione> Kamion: ^^
[10:24] <fabbione> if you have time of course
[10:26] <Kamion> fabbione: thanks, looks good. the initrd solution is scaaaary :)
[10:26] <fabbione> Kamion: it is so simple you won't believe :)
[10:26] <Kamion> fabbione: how about offline resize on ext3/lvm?
[10:26] <fabbione> Kamion: we can't put offline /
[10:26] <fabbione> that's the whole point of the initrd / reboot thingy
[10:26] <Kamion> yes I know not /
[10:26] <Kamion> but say a separate /home
[10:26] <fabbione> doing it at initrd level will keep / offline
[10:27] <fabbione> we still have the problem that we might not be able to umount /home
[10:27] <Kamion> nod
[10:27] <fabbione> specially due to our sudo policy
[10:27] <fabbione> user logs in -> sudo resize /home
[10:27] <fabbione> bam
[10:27] <fabbione> i think a general offline solution is the best
[10:27] <fabbione> and the safest
[10:27] <Lathiat> i find it deeply amusing that linux supports my ipaq hardware better than pocketpc
[10:28] <ajmitch_> what issues have you had with online resizing?
[10:28] <fabbione> ajmitch_: it's not supported for all FS
[10:28] <fabbione> and it is dangerous on some of them
[10:28] <jsgotangco> Lathiat, gpe/opie?
[10:28] <ajmitch_> I've used it successfully on ext3/LVM
[10:28] <fabbione> ajmitch_: with / ?
[10:28] <Lathiat> jsgotangco: gpe
[10:28] <Kamion> "ext2online is not portable"
[10:28] <Kamion> portable to what?
[10:28] <ajmitch_> no, another partition
[10:29] <fabbione> Kamion: PPC ?
[10:29] <Lathiat> among otehr things, the bluetooth works and doesnt crash all the time, and my exexternal keyboard just works (tm)
[10:29] <fabbione> Kamion: it assume a series of things that makes the list of possible point of failures scary
[10:29] <Kamion> 'k
[10:29] <ajmitch_> at least ext2resize 1.1.17 had some bad endian/64-bit bugs
[10:30] <ajmitch_> but that one didn't work with current kernels anyway
[10:30] <fabbione> you need to "mangle" ext2 to add a special inode, that requires patched kernel, patched e2fsck and other stuff
[10:30] <ajmitch_> right
[10:30] <fabbione> i really don't want to take that direction
[10:30] <jsgotangco> wow gpe has evolved
[10:30] <Lathiat> jsgotangco: yeh gpe is kicking ss
[10:31] <Lathiat> i can even scan bluetooth
[10:31] <Lathiat> and tell it to connect to the network interface on my laptop
[10:31] <Lathiat> just by clicking on it
[10:31] <Lathiat> and it works much nicer, and has multisync support
[10:31] <Lathiat> its totally rocking
[10:31] <Lathiat> (altho the multisync support doesnt seem to do calendar yet)
[10:31] <jsgotangco> wtf
[10:31] <Lathiat> that coudl just be broken multisync with evo2
[10:31] <Lathiat> (altho evo2 in multisync syncs with my phone fine)
[10:32] <fabbione> guys, these stuff looks more or less #ubuntu stuff
[10:32] <fabbione> please let's try to stay on topic
[10:32] <jsgotangco> sorry
[10:32] <Lathiat> i was only really mentioning because someone mentioned pda support was a breezy goal, shrug, sorry
[10:34] <Mithrandir> seb128: I didn't finish the pkg-config fix last night, sorry.  I think I'll just upload a new package with --enable-indirect-deps and let it be until I have time to fix it properly.
[10:34] <seb128> k, thanks
[10:35] <fabbione> daniels: dbus changelog is scary!
[10:36] <fabbione> we also have the issue that mono is not really portable yet.. but that's a per arch problem
[10:38] <daniels> fabbione: yeah, dbus has been freaky shit
[10:40] <fabbione> there is something in the breezy boot process that is really wrong
[10:40] <fabbione> it keeps trying to run portmap 2/3 times + it doesn't wait for dhcp to get the ip
[10:40] <sladen> fabbione: what is it?
[10:40] <fabbione> = mess
[10:41] <fabbione> sladen: i am not sure yet
[10:41] <fabbione> i installed hoary and upgraded to breezy (right this morning)
[10:41] <fabbione> so it's all fresh and clean
[10:41] <sladen> is portmap being started from inetd?
[10:41] <fabbione> it shouldn't
[10:42] <fabbione> no it's not
[10:43] <fabbione> and there is a really scary message from init.d/network
[10:43] <fabbione> that it can't map reliably eth0
[10:43] <fabbione> but there is only THAT net interface on the box
[10:44] <fabbione> OH I SEE
[10:44] <fabbione> mountnfs.sh
[10:44] <fabbione> crap
[10:47] <Treenaks> yay! ipv6 works again with 2.6.12!
[10:48] <jsgotangco> brb
[10:48] <fabbione> Treenaks: ????
[10:48] <fabbione> i am using it with .10 tooo
[10:49] <Lathiat> as do i
[10:50] <Treenaks> fabbione: I think it's an ipw2200 bug
[10:50] <Treenaks> fabbione: it worked for a while, then I got a new prefix, and suddenly it stopped working -- but only on that machine
[10:51] <Treenaks> fabbione: (the dmesg was full of "duplicate address" messages)
[10:51] <fabbione> Treenaks: ah wifi.. yeah there are some issues 
[10:51] <Treenaks> anyway, it works now.. or it seems to work at least
[10:51] <fabbione> i have problems with my AP + ipv6 + mac filtering
[10:51] <Lathiat> i had duplicate address messages with ipv4 from the ipw2200 driver all the time, is that related?
[10:51] <fabbione> but i know it is an AP problem
[10:52] <Treenaks> I have some ASUS AP
[10:52] <Treenaks> running linux
[10:52] <Lathiat> cant see i tnow so 
[10:52] <fabbione> i use Cisco
[10:52] <fabbione> i don't get the duplicate address.. that can be a misconfiguration on your net
[10:52] <Lathiat> the duplicate address thing happened anywhere on any network with no duplicates
[10:53] <Lathiat> didnt affect it or anything
[10:53] <Lathiat> im interested to see if the new driver stops crashing out on me
[10:53] <fabbione> sladen: the problem seems to be that the network services (like nfs/portmap) try to start too early, before the dhcp got an ip address
[10:53] <Lathiat> every so often the old version died when i shut my lid or left it over night
[10:53] <fabbione> so adding a sleep in the network init script helps
[10:53] <fabbione> but that's clearly not the clean solution
[10:53] <zyga> 
[10:53] <Lathiat> fabbione: they run in parallel?
[10:54] <Lathiat> or is dhcp now being backgrounded?
[10:54] <fabbione> Lathiat: dhcp forks in background afaik
[10:54] <Lathiat> oh rad
[10:54] <Lathiat> didnt use to do that and it annoyed me
[10:54] <fabbione> it's not rad if it breaks the boot
[10:54] <Lathiat> well, no
[10:54] <Lathiat> its not
[10:55] <Lathiat> altho isnt it a bit broken that portmap needs the interface to be up?
[10:55] <Lathiat> what happens if the interface goes down and back up or a new module is loaded with a cardbus card?
[10:55] <fabbione> Lathiat: it's a network service.. 
[10:55] <fabbione> it relies on network...
[10:55] <Lathiat> or do you mean when actually mounting nfs?
[10:55] <fabbione> if a new dev is added it behavs at it should..
[10:55] <fabbione> mounting nfs
[10:55] <Lathiat> oh right, i thought you meant just starting portmap.
[10:58] <Lathiat> i guess the optimum solution would be getting dhclient to do somethign when it finishes working or failing and spinning on that in mountnfs
[10:58] <Lathiat> or calling out to mountnfs when the interfaces are all up
[10:58] <fabbione> i am thinking what the best solution would be
[10:58] <fabbione> mountnfs is tricky..
[10:59] <fabbione> you might have /home or /usr on nfs
[10:59] <Lathiat> it sucks a bit cus you might need /usr or /home or something on nfs
[10:59] <Lathiat> yeh, exactly
[11:00] <infinity> Is it really sane to be forking dhclient and praying?
[11:00] <infinity> A whole host of init scripts after that could be relying on a real network being present.
[11:00] <infinity> Creating a spinlock as a stopgap is silly.
[11:00] <fabbione> infinity: including ntpdate
[11:01] <fabbione> AHHHHHH
[11:01] <infinity> Yes.
[11:01] <Lathiat> speaking of that, i think ntpdate needs to timeout faster
[11:01] <fabbione> no
[11:01] <fabbione> it's not network fault
[11:01] <fabbione> it's hotplug too slow in loading the eth module
[11:01] <Lathiat> oh
[11:01] <zyga> ignoring the licensing issues for a moment, could launchd help to solve your problem?
[11:01] <infinity> Ahh, that's a different bug altogether.
[11:01] <pitti> we desperately need the dev.d and dependency-based init system, it seems
[11:01] <Lathiat> yeh that would rock
[11:01] <infinity> I used to get that way back when with pcmcia-cs and a pcmcia card.
[11:02] <Lathiat> zyga: launchd is broader than just bootup
[11:02] <zyga> Lathiat: I know but it has dependency stuff, does it not/
[11:02] <fabbione> well not everybody has 15 usb devices connected to his machine :)
[11:02] <Lathiat> zyga: it does, so does initng
[11:02] <infinity> pitti : Our current init system is already dependency-based, except when people fork things we like. :)
[11:02] <infinity> (like backgrounding hotplug operations or pcmcia-cs detection)
[11:02] <pitti> infinity: huh?
[11:03] <infinity> pitti : Our current init is dependency-based, just happens to also be serial.
[11:03] <pitti> infinity: I still have sysvinit...
[11:03] <infinity> pitti : If it wasn't, we wouldn't bother with the cute numbers.
[11:03] <infinity> It's just not intuitively dependency-based.
[11:03] <pitti> infinity: I don't mean "arrange the init script in a sane order"
[11:03] <infinity> (Yes, I know what you meant)
[11:04] <pitti> infinity: ah, ok :-)
[11:04] <infinity> I think the real win will be converting 95% of our init scripts to dev.d scripts, and scrapping init for most of that stuff.
[11:04] <infinity> Many/most things run from init shouldn't be in a dev.d world.
[11:06] <jdub> hrm, mozilla still in main
[11:06] <infinity> Yes.  Check its reverse build-deps.
[11:07] <fabbione> it looks more like that hotplug has been changed for some network related things
[11:07] <jdub> mmm, just looking - disgusting
[11:08] <infinity> jdub : If you can shove it out in a sane fashion, you'll be my hero.
[11:08] <Kamion> we explicitly agreed to keep it in main
[11:09] <Burgundavia> shoot me for not being a dev, but wouldn't it be better to split out the gecko engine, so that yelp,etc. could depend on that, and not a browser?
[11:09] <jdub> Burgundavia: sure, please send your request to the mozilla foundation
[11:09] <Burgundavia> jdub, right
[11:10] <jdub> (hint: they have absolutely no corporate interest in doing it whatsoever, as it's against their stated aims with firefox and the 'mozilla platform')
[11:10] <Burgundavia> that I figured
[11:10] <jdub> Kamion: i thought we agreed to take it out as soon as viable (but not for hoary)
[11:10] <Burgundavia> what are there stated aims for firefox?
[11:11] <Burgundavia> and how does splitting out a renderer conflict with them?
[11:11] <jdub> a) it's work b) firefox is their flagship product
[11:11] <Burgundavia> true
[11:11] <jdub> Kamion: oh, nss
[11:11] <ogra> heya
[11:13] <ajmitch_> hi ogra 
[11:13] <zyga> hmm didn't conqueror rip gecko out some time ago?
[11:13] <Mithrandir> lamont: you didn't ever _try_ building nmap with DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="debug nostrip", did you?
[11:13] <jdub> zyga: no
[11:13] <Burgundavia> zyga, konq is khtml
[11:13] <jdub> zyga: it just made an equivalent of gtkmozembed
[11:13] <jdub> zyga: built on top of the mozilla-qt port
[11:14] <zyga> I know but there was some info a while ago that devs managed to put gecko in conqueror and (in some way allow to use khtml or gecko, choosing at compile time)
[11:17] <zyga> http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/09/11/2119249&tid=154&tid=121&tid=8
[11:17] <zyga> voila
[11:18] <Lathiat> slashdot, the source of all accurate knowledge
[11:18] <zyga> ;] 
[11:18] <ogra> jdub, where is the fridge ? ubuntu-users is full of people that try to start a "spreadfirefox" page for ubuntu... some already started...
[11:19] <zyga> so it the news fraud/incorrect or did they really do it?
[11:19] <jdub> zyga: see what i said above
[11:19] <jdub> ogra: hrm, i should reply to that
[11:19] <ogra> yep
[11:20] <ogra> collect the forces :)
[11:23] <jdub> hrm, haven't read u-u for a bit :|
[11:24] <\sh> ogra: install s9y and u have it ;)
[11:24] <\sh> or drupal ;)
[11:24] <ogra> bah, drupal
[11:25] <\sh> ogra: spreadfirefox is running drupal ;)
[11:25] <jdub> it's fairly likely that the fridge will be a drupal site
[11:25] <\sh> jdub: thats sad :(
[11:26] <jdub> why?
[11:26] <Treenaks> jdub: it's not python
[11:26] <mvo> ping thom 
[11:26] <jdub> there's no reasonable python equivalent that has the featureset or extensibility without writing a fair chunk of code
[11:27] <Treenaks> good point
[11:27] <\sh> jdub: the philosophy behind drupal is not what u want. check kdedeveloper.org (sp?) it's also running drupal...and it's quite weired...cause it doesn't make any differences between static content, dynamic content, blog content and stuff. well, in the end, it's just like phpnuke or postnuke..but this shouldn't be. 
[11:28] <\sh> zope with plone, as a different point of start, will be too slow for the masses, it shows up right now on ubuntulinux.com
[11:28] <Lathiat> i dont think anything could be quite as horrid as phpnuke
[11:29] <jdub> \sh: there are good and bad drupal sites...
[11:29] <infinity> Hey elmo.
[11:29] <elmo> hi infinity 
[11:29] <\sh> jdub: i'm not talking about the appearences of drupal sites..the system itself is "buggy".
[11:29] <Burgundavia> jdub, see also http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=14810&highlight=spreadubuntu
[11:30] <Burgundavia> jdub, and http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=32639&highlight=spreadubuntu
[11:30] <infinity> elmo : Can I get powerpc-utils synced again, this time the version I wanted (must have been in incoming before or something)... -15
[11:30] <infinity> elmo : You have a bug in BZ about it, which I'll just close for you.
[11:30] <infinity> (wasn't sure when you'd be around)
[11:30] <jdub> \sh: i've used it in the past - it's not terrible
[11:30] <\sh> jdub: what "thefridge" wants is a fast and furious CMS, which is easy to maintain, the administrational tasks to a low task of work
[11:31] <\sh> jdub: i hacked the code a bit, last year :)
[11:31] <\sh> jdub: and the CMS should have different apps running for different tasks under one "control panel"
[11:32] <jdub> sure, and right now, drupal seems to be the right choice
[11:33] <ogra> argl....
[11:33] <\sh> jdub: if this CMS should be a "php" application at all, we should check out the following: what do u want: e.g. news pages, interview pages, user content.
[11:34] <Lathiat> heh
[11:34] <Lathiat> that just wont go away
[11:34] <ajmitch_> yet another?
[11:34] <infinity> If you're writing anything from the ground up, please avoid PHP.  Please.
[11:34] <Lathiat> i feel dirty because i use browser mode
[11:34] <jdub> if we keep doing stupid things, it'll never go away :-)
[11:34] <ogra> yeah
[11:35] <\sh> news pages are likely blog alike, interview pages are more like FAQ systems...one question, several answers etc. there are some systems, which are "normally" standalone webapps, but can be combined into one good cms.
[11:35] <\sh> inif
[11:35] <fabbione> ogra, amu: ping?
[11:35] <ogra> infinity, you _dont_ like php ?
[11:35] <ogra> fabbione, pong :)
[11:35] <infinity> ogra : Are you surprised?
[11:35] <\sh> infinity: no...no new rewrite of what is already there ;)
[11:35] <Treenaks> ogra: you DO?
[11:35] <ogra> infinity, not really :)
[11:35] <ogra> Treenaks, nah....
[11:35] <fabbione> ogra: clusterfs :)
[11:35] <ogra> yep
[11:35] <fabbione> feel lucky today?
[11:35] <ogra> fabbione, i'll need to set up some machines first....
[11:36] <fabbione> ogra: upgrading to breezy kernel and installing a couple of packages is enough
[11:36] <fabbione> + a spare partition
[11:36] <fabbione> on one of the machines
[11:36] <fabbione> eheh
[11:37] <\sh> ogra: homeoffice work? 
[11:37] <ogra> fabbione, ok, that should be possible.... 
[11:37] <ogra> \sh, yep, a bit :)
[11:37] <fabbione> ogra: ping me when you are ready
[11:37] <ogra> oki
[11:37] <fabbione> and i will drive you trough the first steps
[11:41] <\sh> jdub: check out http://www.opencms.org
[11:42] <\sh> it's java, ok i don't like java, but it looks promising
[11:58] <ogra> oh, has anybody seen this ? http://www.symphonyos.com/desktop.html
[11:58] <jsgotangco> ogra, hi
[11:59] <ogra> hi jsgotangco 
[11:59] <jsgotangco> it looks nice
[11:59] <ogra> yep...
[11:59] <Zomb> ogra: fear competition
[12:00] <ogra> nah, competition is good, dont fear it ;)
[12:00] <jsgotangco> corner applets are not that clearly defined though
[12:02] <zyga> graphics is cute
[12:02] <zyga> so where's the .torrent?
[12:03] <Burgundavia> not even out of alpha yet
[12:04] <zyga> the dev says they have limited bandwidth, is the .torrent not a perfect solution for that?
[12:04] <zyga> anyway it does look nice
[12:05] <zyga> not another osx/windows ripoff
[12:05] <zyga> it is pretty unique ;)
[12:05] <Burgundavia> there are some cool ideas there
[12:06] <Burgundavia> I really don't know how usable it would be
[12:06] <zyga> corner apps are cool :)
[12:06] <zyga> Burgundavia: think new users and kids 
[12:06] <Burgundavia> those desklet things better not be clickable
[12:06] <Burgundavia> zyga, for kids yes
[12:06] <zyga> Burgundavia: kids = future
[12:06] <jsgotangco> if that's the future count me out
[12:07] <zyga> jsgotangco: kids are the future, would you rather put windows on their boxes instead?
[12:07] <fabbione> yayayaya... Kamion: shrink (ext2/3) works fine too
[12:07] <Kamion> w00t. offline only, I assume?
[12:08] <Burgundavia> it looks very pretty, but as I said, I don't know how usable the whole system is for anyone
[12:08] <zyga> I did like one other thing too, devs mentioned they target low end boxes - that's very good nowdays
[12:08] <fabbione> Kamion: yes
[12:10] <stockh0lm> huhu!
[12:10] <stockh0lm> mdz: awake, still?
[12:15] <tseng> stockh0lm: its quite early there
[12:15] <tseng> stockh0lm: 2am iirc
[12:15] <Kamion> 3:15am
[12:16] <pitti> seb128: now I uploaded all the crack necessary to pmount an encrypted device :-) g-v-m support is on the way
[12:16] <seb128> elmo: around?
[12:16] <thom> mvo, pitti: pong
[12:16] <seb128> I've just read the pmout mail on changes :)
[12:16] <pitti> Hey thom 
[12:17] <seb128> hey thom 
[12:17] <thom> pitti: what's this about breaking your firefox?
[12:17] <thom> good morning
[12:17] <pitti> thom: actually I wanted to ask you about errors in the USN
[12:17] <ogra> morning TheMuso 
[12:17] <ogra> morning Thom
[12:17] <ogra> grr
[12:17] <pitti> thom: but I already released the stuff this morning (I wanted to get this out ASAP)
[12:17] <mvo> morning Thom
[12:18] <ajmitch_> hi mvo 
[12:18] <thom> pitti: errors?
[12:18] <pitti> ogra: set completion_amount = 0
[12:18] <pitti> thom: spelingg errors, bad English expressions, and the like
[12:18] <thom> i didn't notice any last night
[12:18] <pitti> okay, thanks for looking
[12:19] <Kamion> there was the unfortunate "Ubuntu 5.04 (Warty Warthog)" thing ;)
[12:19] <pitti> uuuh
[12:23] <jsgotangco> bye bye guys
[12:23] <ajmitch_> bye jsgotangco 
[12:24] <jordi> Kamion: ouch :)
[12:24] <ismail> daniels: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2005-May/007758.html time for an X.org update? :)
[12:24] <ajmitch_> jordi!
[12:24] <mvo> hey ajmitch_ 
[12:25] <jordi> ajmitch!
[12:25] <ajmitch_> jordi: feeling a bit more alive now?
[12:26] <jordi> ajmitch_: yeah :)
[12:26] <jordi> not dr death anymore
[12:26] <jordi> but I still cough and have horrible stuff inside of me :)
[12:30] <pitti> seb128: btw, do you know of upstream efforts to convert gvfs from gamin to inotify?
[12:30] <pitti> (or, rather, offer an additional inotify backend)
[12:31] <seb128> no move atm
[12:31] <seb128> one of gnomevfs guy is tempted to do it, but alex (the main maintainer) wants to wait on an API stabilisation first
[12:32] <tseng> pitti: there is work in cvs to get an actually working gamin inotify backend
[12:32] <seb128> gamin is crap
[12:32] <seb128> basically
[12:32] <seb128> that's why it would be nice to have gvfs using inotify directly
[12:32] <tseng> hm sure.
[12:36] <Lathiat> or make gamin not suck
[12:44] <sladen> fabbione: it needs so way of hooking.  eg.  call me back to add an interface.  call me back when one disappears.  then they could be brought up on localhost and the hooks called again when something changes.  thom?
[12:45] <dholbach> re
[12:46] <mvo> wb dholbach 
[12:53] <zyga> mvo: hey, how are you?
[12:53] <mvo> hey zyga, fine. how are you? 
[12:53] <zyga> mvo: fine, perfect time to hack :-)
[12:54] <mvo> zyga: what are you hacking on right now?
[12:54] <zyga> mvo: old stuff, libintl 
[12:54] <zyga> mvo: I plan to finish it this time
[12:55] <jdub> seb128: you going to tell DV that gamin is crap? :-)
[12:55] <ajmitch_> mvo: what are your plans on the finding packages spec now? :)
[12:57] <mvo> ajmitch_: that's a tough questions :)
[12:58] <ajmitch_> hehe
[12:58] <seb128> jdub: no, just pushing gicmo to use directly inotify ;)
[12:58] <mvo> ajmitch_: I need to squeeze it somewhere, I have a lot of things to work on right now
[12:59] <dholbach> mvo: just create more myths around it :-)
[12:59] <seb128> no need to push in fact, after spending some hour to track issues with gamin he really want to use it
[12:59] <seb128> dholbach: daniel!!
[12:59] <dholbach> hey sbastien!!! :-)
[01:00] <seb128> how was your conf?
[01:00] <jdub> seb128: not sure inotify will scale with a large number of clients
[01:00] <seb128> jdub: you mean it's not there yet?
[01:01] <ajmitch_> mvo: that's understandable :)
[01:01] <dholbach> seb128: boring - the other guys didnt get their laptop sorted, so i had to talk "into the air" - i had my fun :-)
[01:03] <seb128> cool :)
[01:03] <jdub> seb128: last i spoke to rml about using inotify directly, he said it was not intended to be used individually by many processes on the system at once - i'll check with him again to see if that's true now
[01:04] <seb128> jdub: k, thanks
[01:04] <seb128> jdub: but gamin or gnome-vfs I don't get the difference
[01:04] <mvo> pitti: is there already a mapping between language pack packages and the supported language names? can I use the "Language: " entry in the description?
[01:04] <seb128> I mean some part need to set the monitors
[01:05] <jdub> seb128: unless the gnome-vfs module runs as a separate process (like smb), that means every running process will have its own inotify connection
[01:05] <pitti> mvo: the mapping is in langpack-o-matic
[01:05] <seb128> mvo: any way to get something associated to deb files, so when you click on a deb from nautilus you can install it?
[01:05] <seb128> jdub: right
[01:05] <pitti> mvo: I originally got it from miscfiles (it contains a mapping) and tweaked it a bit
[01:06] <\sh> mvo: u had a look over the stuff I mentioned yesterday concerning update-manager?
[01:07] <mvo> seb128: it's debian bug #47379, there is some work being done on it. we could use gdeb, but I consider it ugly(tm)
[01:07] <mvo> \sh: I haven't looked at your example code yet
[01:07] <mvo> pitti: can you send it to me please? so that I get a idea about it?
[01:08] <seb128> mvo: yeah, I don't like gdeb neither, that's why I'm asking
[01:08] <pitti> mvo: rookery:/srv/language-packs.ubuntu.com/langpack-o-matic/tools/languages
[01:08] <pitti> mvo: shall I export it through HTTP so that you always have an uptodate mapping?
[01:09] <mvo> pitti: might be nice, but I assume it does not change that often?
[01:09] <pitti> mvo: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/languages
[01:09] <mvo> pitti: thanks
[01:09] <pitti> mvo: well, not that often, but it may happen
[01:09] <pitti> mvo: that's a symlink
[01:18] <ajmitch_> elmo: request for sync of drpython, ubuntu patches not needed now
[01:19] <ajmitch_> from sid, that is
[01:26] <elmo> ajmitch_: done
[01:26] <seb128> elmo: I guess than dbus is waiting in NEW?
[01:26] <elmo> yah
[01:27] <ajmitch_> thanks
[01:28] <dholbach> sabdfl: hi mark!
[01:28] <sabdfl> any reason all my man pages might have disappeared?
[01:29] <sabdfl> hey daniel
[01:29] <sabdfl> slinky% man pilot-xfer                                /usr/share/doc/pilot-link
[01:29] <sabdfl> No manual entry for pilot-xfer
[01:29] <sabdfl> See 'man 7 undocumented' for help when manual pages are not available.
[01:29] <sabdfl> seems like they're all gone on holiday
[01:29] <jordi> hey sabdfl!
[01:29] <jordi> did the bottle make it safely to London?
[01:29] <dholbach> all? does   man bash   work?
[01:30] <sabdfl> hey jordi - how's the paella down there?
[01:30] <sabdfl> dholbach: all
[01:30] <jordi> sabdfl: WAY BETTER than in Castell :)
[01:30] <sabdfl> jordi: lucky beach bum
[01:30] <dholbach> anything in  /usr/share/man/man1 ?
[01:32] <ajmitch_> hi sabdfl 
[01:32] <sabdfl> hey ajmitch_
[01:32] <dholbach> sabdfl: is there _anything_  in  /usr/share/man/man1 ?
[01:32] <sabdfl> dholbach: tons of man files
[01:32] <Kamion> sabdfl: if the physical man page is there, mail me the output of 'man -d pilot-xfer'
[01:33] <Kamion> i.e. if /usr/share/man/man1/pilot-xfer.1.gz is there
[01:33] <sabdfl> ah...
[01:33] <sabdfl> MANPATH=/man:/usr/man:/usr/lang/man:/usr/local/man
[01:34] <sabdfl> wonder how that happened
[01:34] <Kamion> wow
[01:34] <sabdfl> i just switched to zsh, maybe it got lost in translation
[01:34] <Kamion> MANPATH should generally be unset
[01:34] <Kamion> man figures it out from $PATH
[01:34] <dholbach> bbl
[01:35] <Lathiat> i like zsh
[01:35] <Lathiat> tab completion is far better than bashs'
[01:36] <sabdfl> ok, i copied the example zshrc to ~/.zshrc and missed that
[01:37] <sabdfl> now, if we had HCT I could just fetch it and make a patch very easily :-)
[01:37] <sabdfl> Keybuk: ^^ (hint)
[01:37] <Kamion> but you're not bitter at all
[01:37] <Lathiat> http://bur.st/~lathiat/zshrc might be usefull
[01:37] <ajmitch_> 403
[01:38] <Lathiat> fixed
[01:38] <Keybuk> sabdfl: if you stopped asking stub to reset the dogfood database, it might have been imported by now :p
[01:39] <sabdfl> Keybuk: is man in the current set of known branches (from the old info files)? if not, could you add the upstream and steer it through? I'll use this as my tutorial on hct
[01:40] <Keybuk> man?  as in man-db/groff ?
[01:41] <Kamion> man-db's on arch.ubuntu.com
[01:41] <Kamion> though I haven't looked it over yet
[01:41] <Keybuk> yeah, I think that one's already imported
[01:41] <Kamion> what do you need to change in man-db though?
[01:42] <seb128> elmo: libgsf sync please
[01:44] <elmo> seb128: done
[01:44] <seb128> thanks
[01:44] <sabdfl> Kamion: i'll see if i can use HCT to produce a nice patch to improve the example zshrc that doesn't nuke man on ubuntu
[01:45] <Kamion> sabdfl: yeah, but that's zsh, not man-db
[01:45] <Kamion> man-db doesn't ship an example zshrc
[01:46] <daniels> ismyeah, I'm still tossing up what to do
[01:46] <seb128> elmo: libdbus-glib-1-dev is universe which breaks the hal 0.5 build, can you fix that please? :)
[01:46] <daniels> bah, not even here
[01:47] <seb128> elmo: and we will probably get the same issue for hal then
[01:49] <Keybuk> zsh is one of the "tricky" ones; the Debian maintainer has already arch'd it
[01:49] <Keybuk> but without any cvs history
[01:51] <sabdfl> Kamion: ermm... true
[01:51] <sabdfl> Keybuk: is the debian arch repo being used for anything other than the debian package?
[01:51] <sabdfl> in other words, has it become the official upstream way-to-do-arch?
[01:52] <Keybuk> no idea
[01:52] <fabbione> hey sabdfl 
[01:52] <Keybuk> I don't think so
[01:52] <\sh> g'afternoon sabdfl 
[01:52] <Keybuk> I'm pretty sure zsh is in CVS upstream
[01:53] <sabdfl> http://www.zsh.org/mla/workers/2005/msg00000.html
[01:53] <Kamion> can we do stuff like syncing file-ids on import with an existing third-party repository like Clint's?
[01:53] <sabdfl> seem's like he's at least trying to do the right thing
[01:53] <Keybuk> that's the Debian maintainer
[01:53] <Kamion> or does that get evil?
[01:54] <sabdfl> Kamion: not yet, arch doesn't support it, baz-ng has a spec that both will implement
[01:54] <Kamion> 'k
[01:54] <sabdfl> where it gets very hairy is i'm guessing we may find quite a few "i've imported this as base-0" folks around the next for almost any upstream
[01:54] <Kamion> mm
[01:54] <sabdfl> so in general, we'll try to do a perfect from-start import and use that
[01:55] <elmo> seb128: dbus done, I'll do hal as it appears on anastacia's radar
[01:55] <sabdfl> if someone has done it properly, and plans to continue syncing reliably, we can tag off them
[01:55] <stockh0lm> who here works on the internals for the edubuntu stuff?
[01:55] <seb128> elmo: thanks
[01:55] <elmo> mvo: done (ages ago, sorry)
[01:55] <seb128> elmo: the hal buildd will retry the build, or you have kicked it?
[01:55] <pitti> it should have been in dep-wait so far, shouldn't it?
[01:56] <seb128> pitti: dunno, when it fail because package is universe, that's still dep-wait?
[01:56] <elmo> seb128: it should retry automatically
[01:56] <seb128> k
[01:56] <seb128> cool
[02:00] <mvo> elmo: noticed already, thanks :)
[02:08] <pitti> seb128: do you know what I have to do after "aclocal: configure.in: 65: macro `AM_PATH_GTK' not found in library"?
[02:08] <Mithrandir> pitti: install libgtk-dev?
[02:08] <Kamion> jdub: bugzilla doesn't seem to let me set an UNCONFIRMED bug to NEEDINFO
[02:08] <Kamion> #10539
[02:08] <Mithrandir> sorry, libgtk2.0-dev or whatever it's called
[02:08] <Kamion> do I have to set it to NEW first?
[02:08] <pitti> Mithrandir: I already have libgtk2.0-dev, of course
[02:09] <jdub> Kamion: shouldn't, but i really have no idea - works for me in other installs
[02:09] <seb128> pitti: what package is that?
[02:09] <pitti> seb128: I try to merge mtr
[02:09] <seb128> pitti: that comes from /usr/share/aclocal/gtk-2.0.m4
[02:09] <Mithrandir> pitti: change it to AM_PATH_GTK_2_0, it seems.
[02:09] <pitti> seb128: it requires a configure.in change, which requires an automake run, which requires aclocal, and the latter two break
[02:09] <seb128> ie: libgtk2.0-dev
[02:10] <pitti> seb128: ok, then I try libgtk1.2-dev
[02:10] <seb128> pitti: running autoconf is not enough?
[02:10] <Kamion> yeah, UNCONFIRMED -> NEW -> NEEDINFO works. bleh.
[02:10] <pitti> seb128: well, somehow I have to make sure that automake is not invoked automatically at build
[02:10] <pitti> seb128: so lamont added AM_MAINTAINER_MODE
[02:10] <pitti> which requires automake
[02:10] <seb128> Kamion: yeah, I'm complaining about UNCONFIRMED to whatever broken for a month now ...
[02:10] <seb128> Kamion: maybe kiko will have a look
[02:10] <pitti> seb128: just touch configure in debian/rules doesn't help
[02:10] <jdub> Kamion: hrm, this must've been what mdz was asking kiko about the other day
[02:11] <Kamion> ah, maybe, I wasn't paying attention to that
[02:12] <pitti> seb128: libgtk1.2-dev helped, thanks; now I only get a bazillion autoheader warnings, but let's see whether it works
[02:13] <Kamion> heh, an amusing effect of the file sorting we do on CD images is that bugs look misleadingly deterministic
[02:14] <Kamion> for example it's very common for installs to fail on bsdutils due to bad burns, and I think that happens to coincide with some particular position on the image
[02:14] <Kamion> on the disk, I mean
[02:14] <Kamion> and you don't see it before then because all the udebs loaded before that point are physically closer to the centre of the disk
[02:15] <jdub> Kamion: yeah, that's spookily weird
[02:19] <Treenaks> maybe the bsdutils package contains some pattern of bytes thats "Hard" to encode?
[02:19] <Treenaks> (8-to-14 bit encoding)
[02:20] <Kamion> seems extraordinarily unlikely that that would have been consistently preserved in a compressed .deb since warty
[02:20] <sladen> arethere actually any pakcages that begin with 'a' or is bsdutils the first deb on the CD?
[02:21] <pitti> acpi*
[02:21] <pitti> apt
[02:21] <pitti> anacron, adduser, probably more
[02:21] <Treenaks> http://www.usbyte.com/common/compact_disk_4.htm
[02:22] <Lathiat> so i have java at 635 mamoery, mono at 34.55 and vmware at 106.15, woot.
[02:22] <Kamion> debootstrap installs base-files, base-passwd, and bash before bsdutils
[02:23] <Lathiat> bah, now vmware has eaten my shfit key again
[02:23] <Kamion> and there are plenty of udebs before that
[02:24] <Lathiat> yeh bsdutils always gets eaten on my bad cds, its freaky
[02:24] <Kamion> oops, I need to teach archive-copier about the standard seed
[02:27] <Nafallo> morning all
[02:47] <mvo> hey Mitario 
[02:47] <Mitario> hi
[02:48] <pitti> seb128: I think it is time to revisit #2134 (always eject devices instead of just unmounting them); this should be safe with the new hal
[02:48] <pitti> seb128: do you know whether upstream does anything about it? if not, we might just throw the simple patch at the people and see how it works out (it works perfectly for me with eject)
[02:49] <seb128> reading the bug
[02:50] <seb128> upstream has changed this for nautilus 2.10:
[02:50] <seb128>         * src/file-manager/nautilus-directory-view-ui.xml:
[02:50] <seb128>         Allow eject on unmounted devices
[02:50] <pitti> cool
[02:50] <pitti> seb128: it's certainly not fixed in 2.9.90 as you claim in comment #8
[02:51] <pitti> uh, wait
[02:51] <pitti> we don't have this version
[02:51] <pitti> oh, we have
[02:51] <seb128> 2.9.90 has the changelog entry
[02:51] <seb128>         * libgnomevfs/gnome-vfs-volume-ops.c: (mount_unmount_thread),
[02:51] <seb128>         (mount_unmount_operation), (gnome_vfs_volume_unmount),
[02:51] <seb128>         (gnome_vfs_volume_eject), (gnome_vfs_drive_mount),
[02:51] <seb128>         (gnome_vfs_drive_eject):
[02:51] <seb128>         allow eject of unmounted volumes.
[02:51] <pitti> seb128: yes, but still I can't eject my USB stick
[02:51] <pitti> seb128: iPod probably doesn't work either
[02:52] <seb128> so that's a bug :)
[02:52] <seb128> what does it say?
[02:52] <seb128> oh, you mean directly?
[02:52] <pitti> seb128: and instead of presenting the user two options, it should just always ejct
[02:52] <seb128> I mean the purpose of the patch is to allow to eject stuff non-mounted from computer:///
[02:52] <pitti> seb128: I think it does not make sense to have two options
[02:52] <pitti> ah
[02:52] <seb128> ie: CD drives listed by fstab
[02:52] <pitti> seb128: that doesn't work for us then (with pmount)
[02:52] <seb128> nop
[02:53] <pitti> seb128: ah, I see, I have "mount" and "eject" for CD-ROMs
[02:53] <seb128> that's it
[02:53] <pitti> so what do you think about unifying this to eject in general?
[02:53] <pitti> so that it works with iPods, USB sticks, and the like?
[02:53] <seb128> is there any case we are stucked?
[02:54] <seb128> ie: I want the device unmounted and not ejected?
[02:54] <pitti> well, #1891 kept us from applying the patch so far
[02:54] <pitti> but that is no issue any more with the new hal
[02:54] <seb128> because you put a CD, g-v-m mounts it
[02:54] <seb128> ou eject it ... no way to get it unmount and not ejected from the UI
[02:54] <pitti> that's already the case
[02:54] <pitti> CD-ROMs should maybe have two options
[02:54] <pitti> but not USB devices
[02:55] <seb128> right
[02:55] <seb128> switching to eject seems ok with me
[02:55] <pitti> the simple s/FALSE/TRUE/ patch?
[02:56] <seb128> that's worth trying imho
[02:56] <pitti> yeah, agreed
[02:56] <pitti> okay, I patch (unless you want to)
[02:56] <seb128> go for it
[02:59] <JaneW> excuse me
[02:59] <lifeless> wow
[03:00] <JaneW> why has NO ONE updated the status of their Breezy Goal on http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/BreezyGoals ??
[03:00] <pitti> seb128: argh, the new gvfs source is not yet in the archve
[03:00] <pitti> JaneW: I didn't yet get to actually starting with my tasks :-/
[03:01] <Nafallo> pitti: thanks for cryptsetup. I'm about to play with my USB-key now :-)
[03:01] <JaneW> pitti: still status indicators start at drafting, and go all the way through to implemented
[03:01] <pitti> Nafallo: g-v-m integration is still missing, but pmount works now :-)
[03:01] <JaneW> plus there are pretty colours that go with each status - it's FUN!
[03:01] <Nafallo> pitti: yea, I saw. you have been busy ;-).
[03:02] <pitti> seb128: is the package on p.u.c the one you uploaded?
[03:02] <Nafallo> JaneW: *s* reminds me of Windows XP :-P.
[03:02] <Nafallo> JaneW: hi btw :-)
[03:02] <JaneW> groan
[03:02] <JaneW> Hi Nafallo
[03:03] <pitti> seb128: oops, no source there...
[03:03] <Simira> mornin folks
[03:03] <pitti> seb128: okay, I wait until it is there
[03:03] <Nafallo> Simira: hi there :-)
[03:04] <Simira> hi Nafallo 
[03:04] <jdub> yo Simira 
[03:04] <Kamion> JaneW: I assume "pending" is stuff like "drafting done but implementation not yet started"
[03:05] <Simira> morning jdub. Or good night, maybe?
[03:05] <jdub> Simira: how is ubuntu-no going?
[03:05] <Kamion> the "completed" / "tested" / "implemented" ordering seems odd? what's the difference between "completed" and "implemented"?
[03:05] <jdub> Simira: always good morning for me :-)
[03:05] <JaneW> Kamion: code completed, fully tested, and actually IN production
[03:06] <JaneW> doesn;t it make sense like that?
[03:06] <jdub> JaneW: needs an AWTY state
[03:06] <Simira> jdub: we're coming along. A handful of translators are set in business, and we've had some other interested people. I just have to learn how to run a LoCo ;p 
[03:06] <JaneW> We can change if necessary
[03:06] <jdub> Simira: ;-)
[03:06] <JaneW> AWTY? er... always wear tight y-fronts?
[03:06] <pitti> JaneW: problem with pending is that it appears before deferred and before WIP
[03:07] <Simira> jdub: I'm having a few ideas for activities after the summer holidays. I suppose it's difficult to gather people in summertime, besides I'm planning to pick up some ideas on Debconf
[03:07] <Treenaks> Simira: running a LoCo is easy.. for the Dutch part at least
[03:07] <Nafallo> would it be any helpful at all for my to clean up the mplayermess or are we about to get that in debian to sync soon?
[03:07] <JaneW> pending means spec comleted and it's pending action (i.e. about to start)
[03:07] <Treenaks> Simira: they all go their own way, and do what they like.. and sometimes we drink beer :)
[03:07] <JaneW> deferred can happen anytime, if it gets shelves as a 'not now' item.
[03:07] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: aka "herding cats"?
[03:07] <Simira> Treenaks: sounds nice. We got to get that too. It's just that we got a good deal of young people. I intend to contact the lugs soon as well.
[03:07] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: uh, a bit
[03:08] <Kamion> JaneW: just seems kind of strange considering that full testing normally involves putting it into "production" in breezy - the only step beyond that is releasing breezy :-)
[03:08] <Treenaks> Simira: afaik, we don't really have lugs here
[03:08] <Kamion> JaneW: pending> ok, that's what I thought, thanks
[03:08] <seb128> pitti: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/g/gnome-vfs2/
[03:08] <seb128> pitti: it's here
[03:08] <Simira> Treenaks: we have 6-7 of them, I don't know how active they are though. I guess half of them are somewhat active.
[03:08] <pitti> seb128: just saw it, thanks
[03:09] <seb128> pitti: ups, no .orig, I've messed up ... if you want to fix it :p
[03:09] <pitti> seb128: I just apt-get source'd
[03:09] <JaneW> Kamion: I am happy to change it. I am used to someone saying something is COMPLETED, it then goes to QA for testing and then only get's implemented, or an awful made up word that was used 'productionalised'
[03:09] <pitti> seb128: oh right, it's native
[03:09] <jdub> JaneW: "are we there yet" ;-)
[03:09] <pitti> seb128: where is the orig?
[03:09] <JaneW> jdub: OIC!
[03:09] <Simira> :D
[03:10] <JaneW> jdub: glad you don;t always wear tight y-fronts then ;)
[03:10] <Kamion> JaneW: mm, yeah, I think our process needs to be a bit different there, but happy to wait to see if mdz feels the same way
[03:10] <Simira> Kamion: can I sign up for ubuntu-member stuff for the next meeting now?
[03:10] <seb128> pitti: mv gnome-vfs2-2.10.0cvs..../debian . && tar czf .....orig.tar.gz gnome-vfs2....
[03:10] <jdub> not really a y-front fan, myself
[03:10] <mdke> Simira, you definitely can
[03:10] <seb128> pitti: ie: I've not changed anything out of debian/, so the dir without debian/ is the CVS
[03:10] <mdke> Simira, just add your name and make a page
[03:10] <Kamion> Simira: sure, link to your wiki page on CommunityCouncilAgenda and make sure your wiki page has detail about the things you've been doing for Ubuntu
[03:11] <pitti> seb128: alright, I fix it
[03:11] <JaneW> Kamion: ok I'll run my thinking past mdz, and see what he thinks.
[03:11] <seb128> thanks
[03:11] <Kamion> Simira: actually if you could create a new section with people to be considered at the next meeting, that would help avoid confusion with the people we just did
[03:11] <JaneW> jdub: good, they are not the sexiest things on earth, that's for sure... thought some of the designer ones aren't bad..... *slaps self*
[03:12] <Lathiat> how does one get a login for wiki.launchpad.canonical.com ?
[03:12] <Kamion> Lathiat: it's private to LP developers at the moment
[03:12] <Lathiat> oh, ok
[03:12] <Lathiat> just annoying its linked off half of the udu wiki pages :)
[03:12] <Kamion> yeah, I know
[03:13] <JaneW> Lathiat: yes we had a debate about that - sorry
[03:14] <Lathiat> well i've done my whinging, if someone remembers let me knwo when its "fixed" :)
[03:15] <mdke> i think in some cases material has been incorporated into the udu specs
[03:15] <Lathiat> yeh but theres quite a few where it just links to the spec there and not much else
[03:16] <Simira> Kamion: done
[03:16] <mdke> guess we just have to trust them to incorporate it when its ready
[03:16] <Simira> Kamion, mdke: The wiki page is made already. :)
[03:16] <Kamion> thanks
[03:17] <pitti> aaaargh
[03:17] <pitti> JaneW: indeed, when editing the BreeyGoals page, ffox crashes
[03:17] <pitti> thoooooom
[03:17] <jdub> pitti: iz gtk boog
[03:18] <JaneW> pitti: huh really?
[03:19] <pitti> JaneW: yeah, I selected the pending thing from your bar, and tried to paste it into a cell, then booom (twice so far)
[03:22] <trulux> oops
[03:22] <Nafallo> time for schoolwork :-(
[03:22] <Nafallo> bbl
[03:22] <trulux> I'm getting this with a new USB Mouse which is working well in my Ubuntu box: hub 3-0:1.0: Cannot enable port 1.  Maybe the USB cable is bad?
[03:22] <trulux> hah
[03:22] <trulux> hey pitti 
[03:23] <JaneW> pitti: weird, I removed all flash installations and mine has been fine... I got the colour codes from GIMP Image editor...
[03:23] <pitti> Hi trulux 
[03:23] <pitti> JaneW: mozilla works fine for me
[03:23] <JaneW> pitti: any idea what could becausing it? Other than XP-like colours ;)
[03:23] <trulux> pitti: howya? btw, do you know on the USB mouse/hid problem?
[03:24] <pitti> JaneW: no idea, that's a question for our mozilla maintainer *duck*
[03:24] <pitti> trulux: no?
[03:24] <JaneW> heh
[03:25] <trulux> pitti: just if you have experienced it
[03:25] <pitti> JaneW: indeed, I have the flash plugin installed
[03:25] <JaneW> pitti: hmmm
[03:25] <pitti> trulux: I have a usb mouse, works fine
[03:25] <trulux> pitti: never seen that?
[03:26] <JaneW> Breezy even
[03:26] <pitti> trulux: "that" == ?
[03:26] <Lathiat> trulux: could be bad mouse, bad cable, bad usb port or drivers fighting over usb1/usb2
[03:26] <ogra> bad karma...
[03:27] <Lathiat> heh
[03:27] <trulux> Lathiat: possibly the drivers issue, what do you think that would be best to do? (the mouse works, but it doesn't right now :D)
[03:27] <trulux> pitti: no worries, will check a few things
[03:28] <pitti> seb128: btw, would it be possible somehow to add gnome-volume-manager to the gnome-session? that would eliminate the need for the buggy reconnection patch
[03:28] <Lathiat> trulux: try it on another machine, tyr another usb device on the same port
[03:29] <pitti> brb
[03:29] <trulux> Lathiat: works
[03:37] <pitti> seb128: package is uploaded, let's see what breaks :-)
[03:37] <seb128> cool
[03:38] <seb128> maybe a buildd will try to build this one :p
[03:54] <JaneW> whiprush: ping
[03:55] <mjg59> Kamion: Around?
[03:57] <Kamion> mjg59: yeah
[03:59] <Lathiat> hrm the fixed bug where natuilus keeps rethumbnailing changing video files has regressed
[04:01] <mjg59> Kamion: www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/hp.tar.bz2 has three packages - how easy would it be to build a Hoary CD image containing them and all their dependencies, and have them installed by default?
[04:02] <Kamion> mjg59: for me to do it, or for you? :-)
[04:02] <mjg59> Kamion: Well, with working apt authentication, so probably for you :)
[04:03] <mvo> Kamion: I have a patch to "unauthenticate" cdroms again btw
[04:04] <Kamion> mjg59: 'k, I'll do that
[04:04] <mjg59> Kamion: Ah, also the syslinux command line needs "reboot=b" adding to it
[04:04] <mjg59> Kamion: Hang on, I'll send you a mail
[04:05] <Kamion> mjg59: on boot from CD, or first boot into installed system, or both?
[04:05] <mjg59> On boot from CD
[04:06] <Kamion> that's straightforward
[04:06] <Kamion> but yeah, send mail so I don't lose it :)
[04:11] <mjg59> Oh, cock, except the video switching stuff is playing up now
[04:12] <Kamion> i386 only, right?
[04:15] <whiprush> JaneW: pong!
[04:15] <mjg59> Kamion: Yeah
[04:15] <ogra> whiprush, nice blog entry  :)
[04:15] <whiprush> heh
[04:15] <mjg59> Kamion: Sorry, I've just found that there's still a problem with the video change stuff - I'll let you know once it's sorted
[04:16] <\sh> ogra: url pls need to adjust m 
[04:16] <\sh> my aggregator ;)
[04:16] <ogra> \sh, http://www.whiprush.org/
[04:18] <chmj> whiprush, holly potatos
[04:18] <Kamion> mjg59: no problem
[04:20] <\sh> i should make an "unofficial ubuntu planet" for all the others who r not on planet.ubuntu.com ;)
[04:21] <ogra> The Fridge !
[04:21] <Treenaks> Teh Firgde!
[04:21] <seb128> elmo: around?
[04:21] <ogra> aww
[04:21] <Lathiat> THE! FRIDGE!
[04:21] <Lathiat> haha
[04:21] <\sh> where is it?
[04:22] <Lathiat> check your kitchen
[04:22] <ogra> \sh, nonexistent yet
[04:22] <\sh> ogra: why do u scare me then? i'm shivering all over ;)
[04:22] <ogra> but here is a picture of it: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/TheFridge
[04:22] <\sh> ogra: yeah..have it in my bookmarks already ;)
[04:23] <ogra> \sh, whiprush and jdub are the guys to get in contact with, if you want to help
[04:24] <\sh> ogra: remember the discussion this afternoon?
[04:24] <ogra> this afternoon ? nope...
[04:24] <dilinger>  "Slashdot for Ubuntu"
[04:24] <ogra> yeah
[04:25] <\sh> ogra: about drupal for thefridge?
[04:25] <ogra> ah, yeah
[04:25] <ogra> i remember now
[04:25] <ogra> didnt know it was about the fridge....
[04:26] <jdub> dilinger: ugh, no :-)
[04:27] <\sh> i should finish my BYOPS project ;)
[04:27] <\sh> time time time i need time
[04:29] <\sh> coffee 
[04:31] <dilinger> jdub: it's in the spec ;p
[04:37] <lamont> .libs/gsf-input-bonobo.o(.text+0x3c): In function `gib_synch_shared_ptr':: undefined reference to `CORBA_exception_init'
[04:37] <ogra> lamont, mono ?
[04:37] <ogra> err..
[04:37] <ogra> nm
[04:38] <lamont> like I actually read the package descriptions before I bug seb128??? :-)
[04:38] <ogra> (gsf-sharp is the mono thing...)
[04:38] <ogra> heh
[04:38] <seb128> lamont: yep, I've asked the sync
[04:38] <seb128> lamont: ftbfs?
[04:38] <lamont> 1.12.0-1 is FTBFS
[04:38] <seb128> bah
[04:38] <seb128> still pkg-config crap
[04:39] <seb128> same as file-roller
[04:39] <seb128> and other stuff
[04:39] <lamont> a collection of undefined refs, all with "CORBA_" in the symbol name
[04:39] <seb128> that's going to be fixed soon
[04:39] <lamont> ok.
[04:39] <lamont> I'll have bunch of stuff to give back once you tell me to 
[04:39] <seb128> right, I've a list
[04:40] <seb128> all the stuff apt wants to downgrade here :p
[04:40] <seb128> anyway I'm away for ~1h, bbl
[04:42] <lamont> heh
[04:42] <lamont> have fun
[04:59] <pitti> bye guys, cu tomorrow
[05:19] <Kamion> hmm, I think I'm going to drop power3 from the powerpc CDs
[05:19] <Kamion> they're overflowing, and that's a good candidate for dropping
[05:19] <Kamion> after that, I look at languages ...
[05:20] <^rob^> Kamion: do you know if there is any util to automate dealing with thee CUDA chip on PowerPC?
[05:20] <Kamion> no idea
[05:20] <Kamion> I have my cdimage hat on here, not my powerpc hat :)
[05:21] <^rob^> BreezyGoals has a powermanagement gui task right?
[05:21] <mjg59> ^rob^: Yes
[05:22] <^rob^> would that be the place for it?
[05:22] <^rob^> I guess GnomePower  probably
[05:24] <mjg59> CUDA = ?
[05:25] <^rob^> mjg59: it's the chip that controls the low-level clock, power management, etc on G4s and above
[05:25] <^rob^> http://lists.terrasoftsolutions.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/2004-August/015191.html
[05:26] <ajmitch_> bye mvo 
[05:26] <mdz> jdub: no, the thing I was asking kiko about was the status box on the enter_bug page
[05:26] <mjg59> ^rob^: Ugh. I think that's excessively specialised for the default power management setup.
[05:27] <^rob^> mjg: well "Restart automatically after power failure" has to live in userland on PowerPC
[05:27] <Kamion> um ... no it isn't G4 and above
[05:27] <^rob^> Kamion: at least, earlier as well?
[05:27] <Kamion> This includes many m68k based Macs (Color Classic, Mac TV,
[05:27] <Kamion>           Performa 475, Performa 520, Performa 550, Performa 575,
[05:27] <Kamion>           Performa 588, Quadra 605, Quadra 630, Quadra/Centris 660AV, and
[05:27] <Kamion>           Quadra 840AV), most OldWorld PowerMacs, the first generation iMacs,
[05:27] <Kamion>           the Blue&White G3 and the "Yikes" G4 (PCI Graphics).  All later
[05:27] <Kamion>           models should use CONFIG_ADB_PMU instead.
[05:27] <Kamion> only one G4 model
[05:27] <^rob^> hrmm
[05:27] <Kamion> and only two of those models are supported by us at all at the moment
[05:27] <^rob^> wowzers
[05:28] <mjg59> ^rob^: There's an argument for it to be configurable, but I don't think that it follows that it should be in user-level GUI setup
[05:30] <^rob^> mjg59: can that be set from OF?
[05:30] <mjg59> The CUDA stuff? No, it looks like it needs to be done under Linux
[05:31] <^rob^> but what replaced CUDA in the newer stufF?
[05:32] <mjg59> I've no idea
[05:32] <Kamion> PMU
[05:33] <^rob^> ahh
[05:33] <^rob^> (sorry, I ment to google CONFIG_ADB_PMU but got a phone call and my brain out the window ;)
[05:33] <koke> hey, I have a patch for lintian
[05:33] <koke> should I upload or contact to mvo?
[05:33] <koke> http://www.amedias.org/~koke/patches/lintian_add-breezy-as-valid-distribution.diff
[05:33] <koke> it's quite simple :D
[05:34] <Kamion> koke: yep, go ahead and upload that
[05:34] <koke> ok
[05:34] <astharot> ciao
[05:35] <Kamion> koke: might want to check linda as well in case it hasn't been done yet
[05:35] <Kamion> yay for NIH
[05:35] <hussam> anybody here using breezy, I have a question
[05:36] <hussam> I want to install dbus-1-utils from breezy, but it requires libdbus-1-1
[05:37] <hussam> if I try to install libdbus-1-1, it says it has to remove everything including gdm
[05:37] <hussam> any thoughts?
[05:39] <Kamion> dbus is in the middle of a transition in breezy right now
[05:39] <Kamion> if you want it to work, don't use breezy :-)
[05:40] <^rob^> mjg59: do you know of any utils at all for setting pmu options?
[05:40] <mjg59> No, I don't own any hardware with PMU capabilities
[05:40] <Kamion> pmu> pbbuttonsd is supported
[05:42] <hussam> Kamion: will the dependencies be uploaded later?
[05:43] <Kamion> hussam: it's in progress.
[05:43] <Amaranth> could someone in #ubuntu's access list op me again?
[05:43] <Amaranth> seems i'm the only one active
[05:44] <Amaranth> nevermind :)
[05:45] <koke> Kamion: it seems linda is ok
[05:45] <mdke> did anything come of the "community members get ops" idea?
[05:45] <mdke> Amaranth, ^
[05:46] <Amaranth> mdke: i missed the meeting
[05:46] <Kamion> it's supposed to happen AFAIK, hasn't been implemented yet
[05:47] <mdke> damn
[05:47] <mdke> i clicking something in xchat which has ruined the window
[05:47] <mdke> Be RiGhT bAcK
[05:47] <Amaranth> wtf was that?
[05:47] <Kamion> eek
[06:08] <Kamion> if it helps one understand the code, is drinking on the job a bad thing? :-)
[06:09] <Amaranth> hehe
[06:09] <Amaranth> was the original author drunk when he wrote it?
[06:09] <Treenaks> Kamion: well, if crack is allowed.. ;)
[06:10] <Kamion> Amaranth: I think any possible answer to that would be slandering Keybuk
[06:12] <Mithrandir> Kamion: it's not called "drinking on the job", it's called "protecting the brain cells from permanent damage"
[06:12] <diamond> seb128: sorry 'bout filing a duplicate bug. my search of bugzilla didn't show up anything, musta given bad terms
[06:16] <seb128> diamond: np
[06:16] <seb128> that happens to everybody ;)
[06:18] <sm> by god you're right Mithrandir
[06:23] <Keybuk> Kamion: which bit doesn't make sense?
[06:25] <Kamion> Keybuk: I just hit a nightmarish corner case in the bit that checks kernel-version: for udebs, which propagated its way out to stuff like reverseDepends() (which I've never had to look at much before)
[06:25] <Kamion> Keybuk: in fairness, though, about 75% of the code involved was code I wrote, and I've worked it out now :-)
[06:25] <Keybuk> if it's any consolation, most of it doesn't make sense to me anymore either ;)
[06:25] <Kamion> di_kernel_versions was always a nasty hack - I just had to make it per-seed rather than global
[06:26] <Kamion> not surprised
[06:27] <Kamion> (since now I want to have a different set of valid Kernel-Version: headers depending on which seed you're coming from)
[06:28] <Keybuk> I wasn't drunk when I wrote it, however it is a pretty good example of genetic engineering by human hands
[06:29] <Keybuk> I pretty much randomly added and removed code until it gave the right output with the right input
[06:29] <Keybuk> there were one or two bits which were clearly broken, yet worked
[06:29] <Kamion> ... and I adopted exactly the same approach without consulting with you on it
[06:29] <Keybuk> so I just left it like that
[06:30] <Keybuk> well, you know what they say
[06:31] <Kamion> you're not thinking of the "great minds" half of the proverb, I'm betting. :)
[06:31] <dholbach> re
[06:32] <Keybuk> no, I was going for the "fools seldom differ" bit
[06:34] <Kamion> ok, well that worked, with the exception of a few spurious diffs to 'provides'
[06:34] <Echylo> hah
[06:34] <Kamion> and I have no plans to try to figure out what those are about
[06:35] <Keybuk> it's trying to communicate
[06:36] <Keybuk> perhaps germinate is becoming some kind of oracle
[06:36] <Kamion> "help, I'm stuck in a Python script and I can't get out"?
[06:36] <Keybuk> like when it was continually trying to put KDE in main, it was just predicting the future
[06:38] <Kamion> oh, yuck, I think I might need to teach the Germinator about supported, actually
[06:39] <Kamion> (as opposed to the germinate main() wrapper)
[06:50] <fabbione> doko: are you kidding me?
[06:50] <fabbione> another gcc-3.* upload?
[06:50] <fabbione> doko: is that supposed to fix the libvtest3 thing?
[06:51] <doko> fabbione: last one, bringing g77-3.4 to the default
[06:51] <doko> fabbione: no, my test build is still running
[06:51] <fabbione> doko: ok...
[06:51] <fabbione> that means at least another upload :/
[06:51] <fabbione> did you see the log file, didn't you?
[06:52] <doko> the one for sparc ?
[06:52] <fabbione> yes
[06:55] <doko> yes, I did see it
[06:55] <codestring> hi
[07:01] <bluefoxicy> I need to stop writing shit on wikis.
[07:01] <bluefoxicy> whenever I comment I actually have to make a whole section for my comments
[07:01] <bluefoxicy> because I leave like 80 pages of comments.
[07:21] <doko> elmo, mdz: I've put a list of source packages to freeze (when we start) at chinstrap:~doko/cxxapps-20050511.log
[07:22] <fabbione> doko: when do you plan to switch ?
[07:24] <doko> we'll discuss it in some minutes (18:00 UTC) on #ubuntu-toolchain, later then with the MOTUs
[07:25] <fabbione> doko: ah ok
[07:25] <fabbione> doko: can you kindly let me know when that will happen?
[07:26] <fabbione> i think i will need to stop the sparc buildd to switch defaults manually
[07:26] <fabbione> and restart after packages will be blocked
[07:26] <doko> yes, will do
[07:26] <fabbione> thanks
[07:27] <doko> btw, see https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/BreezyToolchainTransition
[07:27] <doko> could you check an xorg rebuild, when all build deps are there?
[07:30] <fabbione> doko: sure.. i will as soon as it's ready
[07:31] <fabbione> doko: so during the transtion all the rebuild will be done in background?
[07:32] <fabbione> or will it happen smoothly?
[07:32] <doko> what do you mean with "background"?
[07:32] <fabbione> i read that uploads will be closed
[07:32] <fabbione> or closed only for c++
[07:32] <fabbione> ?
[07:33] <doko> but only for new sources and a list of packages found in the wiki. exactly
[07:33] <fabbione> ok and these packages will be uploaded and accepted manually during the transition?
[07:33] <fabbione> or will they be rebuilt in "background" and uploaded all at once in the archive?
[07:34] <doko> as I did understand elmo, they should be accepted, but do not go to the buildd's
[07:34] <doko> maybe we can have an exception list, or drop packages from the list during the "freeze"
[07:35] <doko> fabbione: btw, the 3.4 build installs fine on sparc ... (at least when built on unstable)
[07:36] <fabbione> doko: you broke it on ubuntu :(
[07:36] <doko> that _is_ the ubuntu package
[07:36] <fabbione> did you try the old version? or only the new one?
[07:38] <doko> 3.4.3ds1-13ubuntu1
[07:38] <mjg59> Why does the beagle package have no useful dependencies?
[07:38] <fabbione> doko: that one fails here
[07:39] <fabbione> doko: can you bootstrap a breezy chroot on that machine?
[07:39] <fabbione> i need to go away pretty soon
[07:40] <doko> fabbione: yes, if I find some time ...
[07:43] <fabbione> ok
[07:44] <Amaranth> mjg59: sh_clilibs is broken or something
[07:44] <Amaranth> mjg59: I can't remember the details.
[07:45] <Amaranth> err, cillibs?
[07:47] <mjg59> Ah
[07:47] <mjg59> It doesn't even depend on mono, which isn't a great start :)
[07:51] <luis_> mako: hey, do you know if there is anyone (outside of RH) formally stockpiling patents for Free Software?
[07:52] <Riddell> mdz: I've uploaded a new knetworkconf which just fixes the current one
[07:53] <mdz> Riddell: excellent, thanks.  can you send me a mail to remind me about it?  I'm in a meeting
[07:53] <Riddell> sure
[07:56] <sladen> luis_: Eben was talking about it at LCA.  Probably the person to ask
[07:56] <Amaranth> mjg59: get libgnome-cil
[07:56] <mako> luis_: unless you count the companies that are setting them asside for use in free software projects, i don't think so
[07:56] <sladen> luis_: Raph (of Ghostscript fame) has several
[07:56] <mako> luis_: i think the SFLC may be interested in getting a few
[07:56] <mako> luis_: i will meet with eben tomorrow.. i can ask
[07:57] <ogra> mjg59, mono is totally broken hatm... i'll have it in shape till the weekend i hope
[07:57] <Amaranth> someone got a patent for swinging sideways on a swing, so i figure i have a shot
[07:57] <ogra> mjg59, you can install the beagle build deps, that helps
[07:58] <luis_> mako: please do... nothing serious, but I read a sci-fi short story recently where the main character donates all his patents to a Free Intellect Foundation, and realized that AFAIK that couldn't really happen in real life
[07:59] <luis_> which seemed a shame
[07:59] <mako> luis_: you could donate them to pubpat
[07:59] <mako> luis_: they do the patent commons stuff
[08:00] <mako> luis_: i'm not sure how many people have given patents to them... but you could
[08:00] <mako> they'd take them
[08:00] <luis_> huh
[08:00] <luis_> cool
[08:00] <luis_> now I just have to have an original thought ;)
[08:01] <bluefoxicy> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/OEMRescue  Have you ever worked in a computer repair facility?
[08:01] <bluefoxicy> "I have a virus" "Erase your whole hard drive and reinstall Windows"
[08:02] <bluefoxicy> "My OS won't boot" "Erase your whole hard drive and reinstall Windows"
[08:02] <bluefoxicy> "I have spyware and spysweeper didn't remove it" "Erase your whole hard drive and reinstall Windows"
[08:02] <bluefoxicy> I can go on and on with this for several hours if you'd like.
[08:02] <mako> luis_: nah, dude, it's overrated
[08:02] <mako> luis_: i don't actually believe in them
[08:03] <mako> luis_: but that's another conversation
[08:03] <bluefoxicy> In a Unix system it's ALWAYS possible to either A) repair the system (erase it and only it and reinstall, don't hurt the users' data); or B) Repair or erase a certain damaged configuration in a certain user's profile to get an application working again
[08:03] <bluefoxicy> it NEVER requires a complete hard disk erasure.
[08:04] <bluefoxicy> So why is there shit in the  Breezy 
[08:04] <bluefoxicy> roadmap that encourages erasing all data and reinstalling without even attempting to actually FIX whatever problem occurs when we can do MUCH better?
[08:05] <luis_> mako: heh
[08:05] <luis_> mako: should have put quotes around 'original' :)
[08:05] <bluefoxicy> Is this one of those "oh well we're minorly better than MS so we don't have to actually do anything right" things that people come up with
[08:06] <evarlast> bluefoxicy: i agree with you, given enough time to do your steps A or B above, but those are often time consuming and time costs lots of $$$, so the MS approach is often cheaper.
[08:06] <mjg59> bluefoxicy: Have you actually read the rationale?
[08:07] <\sh> _AND_ you have to make a difference between a server and a workstation. normal users don't have a separate home partition 
[08:07] <bluefoxicy> evarlast:  separate /home directory.  System's broke, dump the system back to /, user's config and files stay fine.  User configuration is broke, wipe user's home directory.  Important data can be stored in say /home/shared (chmod 01777 /home/shared here) by the user for a "backup".  More complex things can be handled as time progresses.
[08:08] <evarlast> bluefoxicy: you are already WAY past a level that my Mom can understand.
[08:08] <bluefoxicy> mjg59: "OEMs will want to provide a way for users to return an installed system to a pristine state. This is mainly to reduce support costs as they can ask the user to just return the system to its shipped state and restore data from backup."  == "encourage bad practices and lack of data availability" (data availability == security; having to back up everything when your system is broken is not data availability, especi
[08:08] <bluefoxicy> ally if you don't happen to have a dvd burner to burn most of your massive 80 gigabyte / partition to)
[08:08] <Kamion> bluefoxicy: it's not about whether *we* want to do things right, it's about whether OEMs we want to persuade to base their stuff on Ubuntu are going to want this anyway; if we don't implement it, they will
[08:08] <bluefoxicy> evarlast:  Yes and the beauty of it is she just has to hit "rescue" or "Fix this user" or "An application won't start:  Web Browser"
[08:09] <bluefoxicy> Kamion:  OEMs count on people to be sheep.
[08:09] <Kamion> and I'd appreciate it if your contributions to this channel were less abusive
[08:10] <bluefoxicy> well after watching several people lose important data for no apparent reason and running for over a year and a half having damaged my system, what, 20 or 30 times and having to reinstall and not having said problems, I feel that such utter crap is abusive to the user base.
[08:11] <Kamion> I don't think OEMRescue precludes a separate /home
[08:11] <\sh> bluefoxicy: even in datacenters is much cheaper to have the data separated and the system is easy to reinstall
[08:11] <Kamion> and it would be pretty trivial for an OEM to set things up that way
[08:11] <evarlast> bluefoxicy: sounds nice, but often time a "system" is messed up as far as an end user is concerned, but really it junk in ~/ causing the problems, a nasty ~/.gnome entry or the like.  I think there is good reason to do both.
[08:12] <bluefoxicy> evarlast: I've considered that already.  The only real obstacle is labeling and grouping individual problems in such a way that a user can figure out what his problem is, and having fixes for the most common cases.
[08:12] <\sh> bluefoxicy: but on a "private housewifes" laptop, you can forget about separating partionions....and if you check installations of windows xp from OEMs you will see the same afford 
[08:12] <bluefoxicy> Kamion:  yeah but a separate home in itself doesn't allow the case of a broken ~/ to be fixed with a quick system restore.
[08:12] <Kamion> bluefoxicy: that's a pretty trivial matter for the rescue application
[08:13] <bluefoxicy> \sh:  I know, I've erased enough peoples' schoolwork and movies and pictures and games and important data due to windows xp being on a 200 gigabyte C:
[08:13] <Kamion> you could easily have a button that goes rm -rf ~/.[^.] * or equivalent
[08:13] <bluefoxicy> oy
[08:13] <bluefoxicy> anyway
[08:13] <Kamion> or whatever
[08:13] <Kamion> the point of OEMRescue is flexibility
[08:14] <Kamion> it's providing a base on which OEMs can select whatever options they want to provide
[08:14] <Kamion> s/on/from/
[08:14] <bluefoxicy> yeah, the presentation on the wiki indicates as much flexibility as the compaq system restore CDs
[08:14] <\sh> bluefoxicy: well...I'm not talking about obsolete data..I'm talking about data which is important to have to be backuped
[08:14] <Kamion> I'm not familiar with the Compaq CDs, so I can't tell what that means
[08:15] <bluefoxicy> Kamion:  put the CD in, press F11, hit Y, it erases your partition table, recreates it, formats shit, and starts dumping files on the drive.  One execution path possible.
[08:15] <\sh> kamion: put the cd in, format everything, install image, ready for use again ==> data loss
[08:15] <Kamion> bear in mind that the wiki notes were written in a spare three-quarters-of-an-hour while being hurried to go and do other stuff
[08:15] <Kamion> so levelling vitriol at them is not productive :-)
[08:16] <bluefoxicy> Kamion:  donaldson?
[08:16] <Kamion> huh?
[08:16] <bluefoxicy> vitriol
[08:16] <Kamion> you are making no sense
[08:17] <bluefoxicy> nvm
[08:17] <Kamion> I'll bear your comments in mind, but it would be nice if I didn't have to wade through so much flamage in future :)
[08:17] <bluefoxicy> I flame when I'm flamingly angry
[08:18] <Kamion> well your flaming makes the people you want to convince flamingly angry, so it's not really useful
[08:18] <Kamion> take a deep breath and count to ten. :-)
[08:19] <mjg59> Anyone here running on a Dell laptop?
[08:19] <\sh> or write a wiki page, where you can correct the objections of the OEMrescue ;)
[08:20] <sabdfl> bluefoxicy: could you send me that code of conduct url again please? ;-)
[08:20] <bluefoxicy> sabdfl:  I can't remember
[08:20] <Kamion> \sh: comments at the end of that page as he did are fine, certainly
[08:21] <\sh> Kamion: this way or the other :)
[08:21] <sabdfl> bluefoxicy: clearly ;-)
[08:21] <mjg59> Ah, Dell hotkeys seem to be keycodes. Good.
[08:23] <\sh> mjg59: is there no kbd profile for dell laptops?
[08:24] <mjg59> \sh: No idea
[08:24] <\sh> mjg59: check xorgconfig or something...there should be one
[08:24] <mjg59> Oh, urgh. No, we don't really want to do it through X.
[08:25] <mjg59> The Right Way(tm) is to have the hotkeys bound to the standard input keys
[08:25] <\sh> mjg59: for hp/compaq nc6000 i'm using compaq armada layout and only kde can use the special keycodes ;)
[08:25] <mjg59> \sh: The 61x0 and 62x0 work fine, as long as you set the keycodes first
[08:25] <\sh> like mute/unmute inc/dec volume
[08:26] <\sh> mjg59: via Xmodmap?
[08:26] <mjg59> No, setkeycodes
[08:26] <\sh> oh ok
[08:26] <Kamion> I've split out OEMRescue on BreezyGoals and marked it Drafting, so I remember to go back to it
[08:26] <mjg59> \sh: See include/linux/input.h
[08:27] <mjg59> \sh: Basically, the problem is that there are standard keycodes for all of this, but we don't have standard scancodes
[08:27] <mjg59> So on a per-machine basis, we need to bind the scancodes to the keycodes
[08:27] <\sh> understand
[08:28] <\sh> mjg59: possibility to have it automated?
[08:29] <mjg59> Based on DMI information, possibly
[08:29] <mjg59> But at some stage, we still need to write a big table of key/scancode mappings
[08:30] <mjg59> Ooh, at least Dell seem to be consistent
[08:30] <\sh> hmmm...someone read about novells security solution apparmor?
[08:38] <mdz> seb128: around?
[08:39] <kiko> ah, the joy of 5000 channels
[08:39] <mdz> kiko: you aren't fooling anyone; you're in all of 4 channels
[08:39] <seb128> yep
[08:40] <mdz> kiko: I desperately want to have all bugs come in as UNCONFIRMED by default
[08:40] <mdz> even if the user is REALLY SURE that their problem doesn't need to be confirmed
[08:40] <kiko> even for colin, mdz and seb128?
[08:40] <seb128> and I want to get UNCONFIRMED to WHATEVER working
[08:41] <kiko> just remove editbugs from everybody. that's the trivial solution.
[08:41] <mdz> kiko: I don't want to make it harder
[08:41] <mdz> and I don't want it to have side effects
[08:41] <mdz> like making it impossible to change bugs
[08:41] <kiko> if the user doesn't have editbugs, he can't post NEW bugs.
[08:41] <kiko> ah.
[08:41] <mdz> can't we just hide the form element?
[08:41] <kiko> mdz, have you followed up on NEW bug-filers and asked them if they changed the option manually?
[08:41] <mdz> kiko: no
[08:42] <mdz> but I have tested that new bugs default to UNCONFIRMED if I don't touch anything
[08:42] <seb128> mdz: I don't really get what we win with UNCONFIRMED
[08:42] <mdz> it seems likely that the user sees the form field, and says "of course it is not unconfirme,d I have confirmed it myself" and they change it
[08:43] <mdz> seb128: it lets us mark real bugs, to separate them from the huge volume of noise
[08:43] <kiko> seb128, it will also allow the massive community QA effort ogra is going to lead do this work for us. 
[08:43] <seb128> mdz: hum, right, that allows us to have bug confirmed but not assigned
[08:43] <kiko> (did I say massive? I meant EARTH-SHAKING)
[08:43] <seb128> ;))
[08:43] <mdz> ALL-ENCOMPASSING
[08:44] <kiko> (only managers type in caps)
[08:44] <kiko> and top-post.
[08:44] <kiko> mdz, it's trivial to hide the form element.
[08:44] <mdz> sshh, there are top-posters in the channel
[08:44] <mdz> kiko: I think that's the solution with the least tradeoffs at this point
[08:44] <kiko> mdz, okay, I'll send you a patch.
[08:45] <seb128> you rock kiko 
[08:45] <kiko> and one to fix seb128's probem
[08:45] <seb128> rock rock rock :)
[08:45] <mdz> that would be awesome
[08:45] <seb128> kiko: and when that's done, can you fix malone for me too please ? :)
[08:45] <kiko> okay. let me get down to it. in 1:15 we should talk to ogra about the QA, be around
[08:45] <kiko> seb128, the sab doesn't let me :-(
[08:45] <seb128> ;(
[08:45] <mdz> seb128: that is BradB and bjornT's job
[08:46] <seb128> mdz: yeah, was just joking
[08:46] <kiko> I wasn't 
[08:46] <seb128> mdz: I've pinged BradB with some issues already, the current malone is scaring
[08:47] <Kamion> I think powerpc should fit now, just about; new images building
[08:56] <mdz> seb128: perhaps kiko should be CCed on those mails
[08:56] <mdz> seb128: I hear he needs more mail
[08:58] <kiko> yes, please CC me
[08:59] <seb128> mdz, kiko: ok :)
[09:02] <kiko> seb128, do you know if Date::Format is packaged in ubuntu?
[09:02] <kiko> seb128, answering that gets you patches faster
[09:03] <seb128> libdate-simple-perl - a simple date object for Perl ?
[09:03] <elmo> usr/share/man/man3/Date::Format.3pm.gz                      perl/libtimedate-perl
[09:03] <seb128> I picked the wrong one :p
[09:03] <seb128> elmo wins :(
[09:04] <elmo> FLAWLESS VICTORY
[09:04] <bluefoxicy> ok perhaps it's time I quit my job and open my own business so I'll have more free time to actually write software instead of do 10 minute mock-ups
[09:05] <kiko> seb128, elmo, what do we need to do to update the description of that package to include Date::Format in it?
[09:05] <seb128> kiko: send a bug to the Debian BTS ?
[09:06] <kiko> seb128, hmmm. okay. don't imagine you could do it for me? :)
[09:06] <seb128> kiko: I could
[09:06] <seb128> I'll not :p
[09:06] <kiko> bah
[09:06] <kiko> the issue is that: 
[09:06] <seb128> k, I'll 
[09:06] <kiko>  - Date::Format is required by Bugzilla and a few other major packages
[09:07] <kiko>   - Finding it is currently difficult because it doesn't show up in the description for the package
[09:08] <seb128> kiko: apt-get install bugzilla?
[09:08] <kiko> seb128, I could do that, I guess, but I imagine your version is more recent than the 2.16/17 that's packaged.
[09:08] <kiko> (so dependencies have changed)
[09:08] <seb128> kiko: you will get a list of package it wants to install
[09:09] <seb128> then you can "apt-get install <list of package>"
[09:09] <kiko> I know
 seb128, I could do that, I guess, but I imagine your version is more recent than the 2.16/17 that's packaged.
 (so dependencies have changed)
[09:09] <seb128> and not look where is Date::Format 
[09:09] <seb128> ups
[09:09] <kiko> yeah, that would have worked for date:;format, good point. still, I think fixing the description is correct.
[09:10] <seb128> 2.18 is the universe version
[09:10] <seb128> I don't expect a big depends change to 2.19
[09:10] <kiko> yeah, updated a week ago, wasn't it?
[09:10] <seb128> agreed for the description
[09:10] <seb128> oh right, fresh sync from debian yep
[09:10] <kiko> neat
[09:13] <Kamion> night all
[09:14] <kiko> hmm
[09:14] <kiko> somebody tell me
[09:14] <kiko> how do I do mysql administration on ubuntu?
[09:16] <evarlast> kiko: not a -devel question, try #ubuntu - also just install mysql and run 'mysql' maybe as root - for gui type administration try installing phpmyadmin.
[09:16] <dholbach> poor kiko :-)
[09:16] <kiko> heh
[09:17] <kiko> I don't think we use root as the mysql superuser, but IMBW.
[09:17] <sladen> mjg59: should that table include wifi
[09:17] <chmj> hey sladen
[09:17] <kiko> heya sladen 
[09:17] <kiko> how did sydney treat you?
[09:17] <kiko> to good falafel no doubt.
[09:17] <sladen> hello chmj and kiko.
[09:18] <sladen> kiko: I was all well and happy but it sounds like various other people left with a flu...  Melbourne was a bit boring aside from the LUG :-)
[09:19] <kiko> oh @#!@#!@#
[09:20] <kiko> who would know. 
[09:20] <kiko> pitti!
[09:20] <kiko> no pitti.
[09:21] <kiko> mdz, who can give me fast mysql support?
[09:21] <sladen> jbailey: java is being talked about in #ubuntu-meeting
[09:22] <mdz> kiko: as in, quickly answer questions about mysql, or provide you with a high-performance mysql setup?
[09:22] <kiko> the former
[09:22] <mdz> kiko: I can
[09:22] <kiko> I want to know who the mysql superuser is on ubuntu
[09:22] <mdz> phone
[09:22] <mdz> kiko: root
[09:22] <mdz> no password by default
[09:22] <kiko> no password?
[09:22] <kiko> ah.
[09:22] <kiko> thanks.
[09:23] <jbailey> sladen: Thanks, which meeting is it?
[09:25] <bluefoxicy> breh
[09:25] <bluefoxicy> who has amd64 and wtf do I use to play video on it
[09:26] <bluefoxicy> because totem-gstreamer is absolute trash (as in laggy, out of sync, freezes often) and xine won't work on amd64 due to segfaults probably caused by the xine team expecting R 
[09:26] <bluefoxicy> R==X personality from x86
[09:28] <bluefoxicy> oh yay mplayer works (after complaining about missing ttf files)
[09:29] <mjg59> Anyone here and running on a Dell laptop?
[09:29] <elmo> FATAL:  XX000: failed to initialize lc_messages to ""
[09:29] <elmo> LOCATION:  InitializeGUCOptions, guc.c:1867
[09:29] <elmo> anyone seen that with postgres?
[09:30] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: I'm using mplayer.
[09:30] <dholbach> totem works fine on amd64 for me
[09:32] <ogra> for me too
[09:36] <bluefoxicy> dholbach:  try playing an mpeg
[09:36] <dholbach> i did
[09:36] <bluefoxicy> it'll constantly change how long it is, ie it'll start a 3 minute video and it'll then say it's 30 minutes, then 4 seconds, then 2 months long, then an hour, then 10 minutes. . . 
[09:37] <bluefoxicy> try seeking through that
[09:37] <bluefoxicy> and if you manage to seek around mor ethan 3 times it freezes.
[09:37] <bluefoxicy> been like that since warty, persists through reinstalls, reproducible on the laptop and the desktop.
[09:37] <bluefoxicy> and i had to install gstreamer0.8-ffmpeg to get movies to play at all.
[09:39] <mirak> hi
[09:58] <kiko> mdz, patch #1 sent
[10:01] <kiko> seb128, interesting. I have a question for you.
[10:01] <kiko> are you here?
[10:02] <kiko> ogra, is it time?
[10:02] <ogra> ah
[10:02] <ogra> heh
[10:02] <kiko> where are mdz, dholbach and seb128?
[10:02] <dholbach> here
[10:02] <ogra> dholbach, is here
[10:02] <dholbach> i thought we'd meet in #ubuntu-conspiracy :-)
[10:02] <ogra> mdz ? seb128 ?
[10:03] <kiko> ogra, let's give them 5 minutes.
[10:03] <ogra> yep
[10:03] <kiko> if 5 minutes are up I'll ring matt, and you could ring seb
[10:04] <seb128> ogra, kiko: what ?
[10:04] <ogra> oki
[10:04] <ogra> seb128, meeting
[10:04] <ogra> seb128, QA
[10:04] <seb128> about?
[10:04] <kiko> seb128, about the end of the world, imminent, unless mdz shows up.
[10:04] <seb128> meetings marathon?
[10:04] <dholbach> yes
[10:04] <ogra> yep
[10:04] <dholbach> feels like UDU
[10:04] <\sh> again?
[10:04] <ogra> hehe
[10:05] <\sh> qa is interessting..had some thoughts about it ;)
[10:05] <seb128> dholbach: no, worst, at this time we were playing mao :p
[10:05] <seb128> or sleeping
[10:05] <seb128> depending on the TZ consideration
[10:05] <kiko> seb128, meanwhile, I have a question to ask you.
[10:05] <dholbach> or having VB :-)
[10:05] <kiko> NEEDINFO.
[10:05] <kiko> seb128, that's not an "open" state is it?
[10:05] <seb128> kiko: yes it is
[10:05] <kiko> why?
[10:06] <\sh> ogra: again in #u-m?
[10:06] <kiko> UPSTREAM too?
[10:06] <ogra> seb128, 6:04 ? i was never up at this time... thats when dholbach awoke ;)
[10:06] <seb128> kiko: dunno how you consider open/close
[10:06] <seb128> kiko: but I consider NEEDINFO as a open bug waiting on informations
[10:06] <kiko> hmmmm.
[10:06] <lamont> kiko: if you declare it fixed, or not-a-bug, it's closed.  otherwise it's open (aka not fixed...)
[10:06] <seb128> kiko: ie, that's not a CLOSED option
[10:07] <kiko> lamont, seb128: and UPSTREAM the same?
[10:07] <seb128> yep
[10:07] <mdz> kiko: here
[10:07] <seb128> UPSTREAM is really open
[10:07] <mdz> was on the phone
[10:07] <seb128> that's "the bug is an upstream issue"
[10:07] <lamont> kiko: yes
[10:07] <kiko> mdz, oh, I double-rang you then.
[10:07] <luis_> NEEDINFO should mean 'I cannot fix this without more information', which is effectively closed- think of 'open' as 'fixable' and 'closed' as 'no longer fixable'
[10:07] <kiko> yeah
[10:07] <kiko> luis_, do you have a custom hack in process_bug.cgi to handle UNCONFIRMED and NEEDINFO/UPSTREAM?
[10:07] <doko> elmo, mdz: is it possible to remove/add packages from the list of frozen packages during the CXX transition?
[10:08] <mdz> doko: I don't see why not
[10:08] <luis_> obviousy it is different from actually fixed, but IMHO it is closer to closed than open
[10:08] <seb128> not really
[10:08] <seb128> they stay in the scope
[10:08] <luis_> kiko: I think so, but honestly I don't recall- it has been a while since I looked at where that hack was
[10:08] <mdz> kiko: so what's the agenda here?
[10:08] <luis_> no
[10:08] <dholbach> if you don't get what the reporter is trying to tell you, it will be NEEDINFO as well?
[10:08] <kiko> anyway
[10:08] <kiko> let's stop this discussion and start another
[10:08] <kiko> I'll sort it out.
[10:08] <luis_> they should never be NEEDINFOd if you can fix it with the information available
[10:09] <kiko> -----------------------------------------------
[10:09] <kiko> QA meeting starts here
[10:09] <kiko> -----------------------------------------------
[10:09] <doko> mdz, elmo: the current plan is to have the freeze next Monday/Tuesday, depending on when elmo can set it in effect
[10:09] <kiko> so ogra, sabdfl mdz and I have a plan for QA in the short term
[10:09] <seb128> luis_: NEEDINFO is to let a chance to provide informations before closing
[10:09] <mdz> kiko: we can use #ubuntu-meeting
[10:09] <kiko> hmm, you had suggested -devel, but sure
[10:09] <mdz> if it's too noisy in here
[10:09] <ogra> yeah, lets do that
[10:10] <mdz> luis_: ->#ubuntu-meeting
[10:10] <luis_> ooh, I'm invited :)
[10:17] <lamont> elmo: looks like ps2eps needs to migrate to main (for gsl)
[10:18] <lamont> elmo: and libevent-dev (for nfs-utils) and jikes-classpath (for gettext)
[10:38] <Kamion> elmo: ... and lsb-{core,cxx,graphics} for lsb
[10:56] <lamont> there will be a momentary disturbance in the force while I bzip2 all the log files
[10:56] <dholbach> haha... lamont: you're great! :-)
[10:57] <lamont> dholbach: for extra credit, tell me how  to have firefox automatically bunzip the data when it arrives.
[10:57] <lamont> rather than wanting to invoke archive manger or whatever
[10:57] <ogra> hmm, it did that once...
[10:58] <lamont> there are some .bz2 files there now, I'm just bziping everything to avoid the rsync pollution that would cause elmo to kill me
[10:58] <dholbach> lamont: doesnt it depend on the webserver configuration?
[10:59] <lamont> well, since we don't want the server uncompressing them.....
[10:59] <dholbach> but some crazy mime-type/whatever stuff? *shrug* no idea, sorry
[11:00] <\sh> dholbach: you can do two things: 1. webserver sending the right mime-type and you have the right mapping, or you advise the browser/desktop gui ;) to map .bz2 with bunzip 
[11:01] <\sh> second method must do the bunzip in a tmp dir and remove it afterwards
[11:08] <\sh> lamont: why not doing a transparent bunziping on the webserver? like the gzip method
[11:09] <lamont> \sh: I suppose we could,  but the reason everyone wanted them was for bandwidth savings, and you don't get those.
[11:09] <lamont> and (2) it would require a server change...
[11:09] <lamont> config change
[11:10] <\sh> lamont: nono...transparent gziping is a feature of the webserver and webclient...the webserver sends it as .gz and the browser tries to gunzip it
[11:10] <lamont> ah, coolness
[11:10] <\sh> lamont: i think there is also a bzip2 module for apache...but i think most of the webclients are not using this, but most of them can use transparant gunzip
[11:18] <lamont> \sh: that's kinda unfortunate.
[11:18] <lamont> bz2 is much nicer for the disk...  and we were getting kinda full
[11:19] <\sh> lamont: i don't have a testbed right now for it, but lemme check tomorrow if I can get it to work on apache2 and firefox
[11:19] <lamont> would be coo
[11:19] <lamont> l
[11:20] <uniq> the module for apache doesn't read .gz files from disk (afaik). it compresses the served files on the fly.
[11:21] <\sh> uniq: you can gzip them also on disk...
[11:21] <\sh> uniq: if you have gunziped files, it will gzip them, and if you have gzipped files, it will send them directly
[11:21] <uniq> ok.
[11:23] <\sh> uniq: problem is the client, if he can do gunzip on the fly it's ok...but then u have those nasty IEs ;)
[11:23] <\sh> some versions are working, some not
[11:24] <lamont> \sh: for this instance, I really only care about firefox... :-)
[11:25] <\sh> lamont: well :) this is fine with me...at lycos we didn't have the choice ;)
[11:38] <bluefoxicy> another detriment to gstreamer/totem
[11:38] <bluefoxicy> sometimes closing totem after 20 minutes of it having finished a video will cause totem to not close
[11:38] <bluefoxicy> but rather rapidly fill memory
[11:38] <bluefoxicy> until your system grinds to a halt for about 10 minutes and the OOM killer catches up enough to kill totem.
[11:42] <uniq> \sh: looks like apache2 only supports content encoding. mod_gzip has been converted to mod_deflate with less features.. http://tinyurl.com/a8pxt
[11:44] <allee> mjg59: ping?  LaptopTesting|Hardware
[11:44] <\sh> uniq: the orig mod_gzip should do this...we had it runnin on apache 1.3 ... i will check it tomorrow
[11:44] <uniq> it's running on 1.3.. but not 2 :)
[11:44] <uniq> I use it on 1.3 myself.
[11:45] <\sh> uniq: there should be a (real) mod_gzip version for 2.x
[11:45] <\sh> http://www.ehyperspace.com/apache/mod_gzip
[11:45] <uniq> 404
[11:45] <\sh> wow
[11:46] <\sh> *headshaking*
[11:46] <lamont> no one should be running 1.3 anymore
[11:46] <lamont> well, except for my competitors...
[11:46] <kiko> I run 1.3
[11:47] <\sh> i switched to 2.x
[11:49] <\sh> but this incident i have to check..mod_gzip not working anymore..:(
[11:52] <doko> Kamion: maybe it's better to build a CD before Monday/Tuesday, when we start the CXX transition ...
[11:57] <lamont> up to 'f' (albeit with some random stuff later in the alphabet done...)