[02:41] <jiyuu0> thegreedyturtle, i'm tryin the torrent now
[02:41] <jiyuu0> thanks
[02:42] <jiyuu0> been waiting for 5 minutes now... seems not moving
[02:42] <jiyuu0> maybe my line is bad
[02:42] <jiyuu0> will wait a little longer
[02:42] <jiyuu0> azureus can really suck mem
[02:42] <jiyuu0> :(
[02:42] <thegreedyturtle> sorry about that, i was working on a kernel thing and forgot to restart azureus last time i rebooted
[02:42] <thegreedyturtle> i just added it and you should be uploading now
[02:43] <thegreedyturtle> doesn't appear to have connected you though
[02:44] <jiyuu0> true... seems not moving
[02:45] <thegreedyturtle> well, i've switched it to super seed it and the tracker is ok, maybe it'll just take a little time to propagate
[02:46] <jiyuu0> ok... i'll wait :)
[02:46] <thegreedyturtle> it says i've uploaded 168.7 to someone, so i'm pretty sure it's working for someone 
[02:47] <jiyuu0> Seeds 0(1)
[02:47] <thegreedyturtle> now i've got a seeds 0(1) and peers 0(0)
[02:48] <jiyuu0> 0(0)
[02:48] <jiyuu0> how fast is ur line there?
[02:49] <thegreedyturtle> 2mbit down 512kb up
[02:49] <thegreedyturtle> i know my ports are open, i don't have any problems seeding other files
[02:50] <jiyuu0> ic... then maybe it could be my prob here
[02:51] <thegreedyturtle> im going to test on another computer here
[02:56] <thegreedyturtle> yeah it's off and running here
[02:56] <Burgundavia> salut mpt
[02:57] <jiyuu0> thegreedyturtle,  ok... can u creata another torrent for the enhance version
[02:57] <thegreedyturtle> sure
[02:57] <thegreedyturtle> got a link for it?
[02:57] <jiyuu0> http://www.frankandjacq.com/ubuntuguide/add-on-cd/ubuntu-5.04-add-on-cd-e-2005-05-08.tgz
[02:57] <jiyuu0> i'll put the torrent for ppl to download once u r done
[02:58] <thegreedyturtle> shouldn't take me more than a few minutes after i get it downloaded
[02:58] <jiyuu0> i'm only on 512k broadband here :(
[02:59] <thegreedyturtle> i understand, im about to go on vacation for 2 weeks w/ only dial up access
[02:59] <thegreedyturtle> but then i've become an internet snob...
[02:59] <thegreedyturtle> can't live w/out high speed
[03:00] <thegreedyturtle> and i don't even play games anymore
[03:00] <jiyuu0> u must be downloading tons of stuff huh
[03:00] <thegreedyturtle> i wish i'd had this system rescue cd when i was resizing my / partition
[03:01] <thegreedyturtle> yeah, and i live with a big family who also download tons of stuff
[03:01] <jiyuu0> ubuntu should come with the resize tool during install
[03:01] <thegreedyturtle> but it's mostly been .iso's of debian/ubuntu/fedora, i only recently have really settled on ubuntu
[03:02] <thegreedyturtle> i was messing with my partitions post install. i ended up using ubuntu live and then actually installing gparted with apt to do my resize
[03:02] <thegreedyturtle> i probably could have done it on the live filesystem, but i haven't goofed with it
[03:03] <thegreedyturtle> i remember talking to a poor guy that had ubuntu automatically partition his hard drive for him, then made a new partition in the back of the drive and expected the front of his drive to still have the ntfs data on it...
[03:30] <mpt> hi Burgundavia
[03:32] <Burgundavia> how is launchpad work going?
[03:35] <thegreedyturtle> jiyuu0, It's ready, the direct download is at http://www.torrentbox.com/download.php/15558/ubuntu-5.04-add-on-cd-e-2005-05-08.tgz.torrent or you can see the webpage at: http://www.torrentbox.com/torrents-details.php?id=15558&uploaded=1
[03:35] <thegreedyturtle> i've got a download testing and it's coming along fine. Sadly it's slow still because I'm the only one seeding it.
[04:21] <jsgotangco> morning
[04:35] <jsgotangco> jdub, a minute?
[04:53] <jsgotangco> ok i will bite the bullet and send this email
[05:21] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, email?
[05:25] <jsgotangco> im still finishing stuff its about packaged documentation
[05:25] <Burgundavia> ok, have you been doing work in that area?
[05:25] <jsgotangco> im more interested in fixing up the existing docs from scrollkeeper/svn rather than write new docs there is so much to fix there
[05:25] <jsgotangco> yeah
[05:25] <jsgotangco> i have some ideas
[05:26] <Burgundavia> that is what I meant
[05:26] <jsgotangco> but i need to get reactions from devels if its possible
[05:26] <jsgotangco> i think its possible
[05:26] <jsgotangco> i was digging into scrollkeeper lst night
[05:26] <jsgotangco> found at least 81 entries
[05:27] <Burgundavia> ah
[05:27] <jsgotangco> probably 300+ omf files
[05:27] <jsgotangco> which means we have like 300+ packaged docs in a default hoary install
[05:27] <jsgotangco> the problem is digging through that docs
[05:27] <jsgotangco> some of them are so old
[05:27] <jsgotangco> yet they got in
[05:28] <Burgundavia> yesa
[05:28] <jsgotangco> ubuntu-doc is just one entry in scrollkeeper
[05:28] <Burgundavia> a lot of upstream docs suck
[05:28] <jsgotangco> yeah we need to cull some upstream if possible
[05:28] <Burgundavia> hmm, some of the upstreams are dead
[05:28] <Burgundavia> so any changes we make, we must maintain
[05:29] <jsgotangco> thats the point
[05:29] <Burgundavia> can you put what you find on a wiki page?
[05:29] <Burgundavia> so we can discuss further
[05:29] <jsgotangco> sure but i will email this first
[05:29] <Burgundavia> prioritze what we want to fix/work on
[05:30] <Burgundavia> ok
[05:30] <jsgotangco> i want to prioritize the upstream stuff and how ubuntu-specific docs would fit in
[05:30] <Burgundavia> cool
[05:30] <jsgotangco> i think this is what enrico has been doing before
[05:30] <Burgundavia> probably
[05:30] <jsgotangco> but wasnt able to finish
[05:30] <Burgundavia> enrico has kind of dropped off the planet
[05:30] <jsgotangco> he has a job
[05:30] <Burgundavia> ah
[05:31] <jsgotangco> i think this is what jdub is trying to say
[05:31] <Burgundavia> evil evil things, jobs
[05:32] <jsgotangco> im way over my head im not so sure if its possible to manipulate this kind of stuff through scrollkeeper or yelp
[05:32] <jsgotangco> well yelp is another story but its only a browser
[05:33] <jsgotangco> i think its more on scrollkeeper
[05:33] <Burgundavia> I also have no idea
[05:33] <jsgotangco> i've tried rebuilding the scrollkeeper db but there are some with no entries so i guess i am right in some aspects
[05:40] <jsgotangco> when we say upstream, we refer to stuff lifted from gnome/debian right?
[05:40] <Burgundavia> any upstream
[05:40] <jsgotangco> and downstream?
[05:40] <Burgundavia> downstream is us
[05:40] <jsgotangco> us to them?
[05:40] <Burgundavia> coder --> packager --> us
[05:41] <Burgundavia> upstream from us is the packager (usually debian) and the coder
[05:44] <mpt> Burgundavia: very very slowly
[05:45] <Burgundavia> mpt, how much do you currently have? 1 gig makes my machine run quite nicely
[05:45] <mpt> 256MB
[05:45] <Burgundavia> ouch
[05:45] <mpt> Getting 1.25 GB tomorrow
[05:46] <Burgundavia> lucky bugger
[05:46] <jsgotangco> hi mpt
[05:47] <mpt> hello
[05:49] <jsgotangco> you're on breezy already?
[05:49] <Burgundavia> yep
[05:49] <Burgundavia> got itchy feet
[05:49] <Burgundavia> had to jump
[05:49] <jsgotangco> i see tseng has already packaged beagle
[05:49] <Burgundavia> yes, is very cool
[05:50] <jsgotangco> i will update my other box to breezy later then
[05:50] <jsgotangco> did Beep MP come in as default?
[05:51] <Burgundavia> no, beep is crap
[05:51] <Burgundavia> ubuntu is trying to change as little from upstream as possibly, for the default
[05:51] <Burgundavia> so rhythmbox and totem
[05:51] <Burgundavia> rb is also crap
[05:52] <jsgotangco> btw i heard your name on lug radio but they laughed at your surname that was rude of them
[05:52] <Burgundavia> not a big deal
[05:52] <Burgundavia> i was slightly offended
[05:53] <jsgotangco> send 'em more email next time
[05:53] <Burgundavia> hmm, nautilus cd burner needs a this much full thing, ala serpentine
[05:53] <Burgundavia> they paraphrased what I had written
[05:53] <jsgotangco> well radio always does that
[05:59] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, do you use K or Ubuntu?
[06:00] <jsgotangco> Ubuntu
[06:01] <jsgotangco> i rarely use kubuntu
[06:01] <Burgundavia> ok
[06:01] <Burgundavia> http://s1x.homelinux.net/files/main.png
[06:01] <Burgundavia> what do you think of that UI for a cd burner?
[06:01] <jsgotangco> hold on
[06:01] <jsgotangco> if you're thinking of using this UI for nautlis burner, this is much better
[06:02] <Burgundavia> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=303759
[06:02] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, you read my mind
[06:03] <jsgotangco> heh great minds think alike
[06:03] <jsgotangco> *grin*
[06:03] <Burgundavia> indeed
[06:03] <Burgundavia> serp is in breezy already
[06:03] <Burgundavia> very very nice
[06:03] <Burgundavia> dragndrop stuff
[06:03] <jsgotangco> its a separate app?
[06:03] <Burgundavia> yep
[06:03] <Burgundavia> python
[06:03] <jsgotangco> main?
[06:03] <Burgundavia> currently universe, but planned for main, I think
[06:04] <jsgotangco> wow that's not so bad
[06:04] <Burgundavia> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/AudioCDBurning
[06:05] <jsgotangco> ok
[06:05] <jsgotangco> ill just email the stuff later and post in the wiki i hope
[06:05] <Burgundavia> ok, and jump on that bug
[06:05] <Burgundavia> see if we can get some movement
[07:30] <mpt> Nautilus folder windows don't have Add and Remove buttons
[07:31] <jsgotangco> you mean the burning function?
[07:34] <mpt> I mean, ordinary folder windows don't have Add and Remove buttons, so why should a CD-R window?
[07:35] <mpt> You could have just one bar showing the capacity/amount of free space, and a Burn button
[07:35] <jsgotangco> true especially if you're aiming for drag and drop functionality i guess
[08:04] <froud> Burgundavia: morning
[08:04] <froud> jsgotangco: morn
[08:11] <mpt> Good morning froud
[08:11] <froud> morn
[08:11] <froud> how r you
[08:13] <froud> hmm people r silent today
[08:13] <mvirkkil> good morning
[08:13] <froud> morn
[08:16] <froud> b'sides jsgotangco is anyone here working on oaything?
[08:16] <mvirkkil> not me
[08:16] <froud> s/oa/an/
[08:16] <froud> mvirkkil: do you have time to work on things
[08:17] <froud> mvirkkil: how's your docbook?
[08:18] <mvirkkil> Not at the moment. @ work
[08:18] <froud> mvirkkil: I mean in general, of ocurse I dont expect you to work on this at work :-)
[08:18] <mvirkkil> Actually this week and next week will suck. So probably not doing anything for 2 weeks :-/
[08:19] <jsgotangco> hi froud how are you?
[08:19] <froud> jsgotangco: hi
[08:19] <froud> mvirkkil: do you see someting in svn u would like to do?
[08:19] <froud> mvirkkil: r you using ubuntu or kubuntu?
[08:20] <mvirkkil> I'm using ubuntu.
[08:20] <froud> OK, would you like to help us on the User Guide when you have some time
[08:20] <mvirkkil> Planning to dist-upgrade to breezy once I have a bit of free time.
[08:20] <froud> mvirkkil: good
[08:21] <mvirkkil> froud: I'll be sure to ask you the status of that when I'm done with the project I'm working one.
[08:21] <mvirkkil> :)
[08:21] <froud> mvirkkil: if you like you can take a look at user guide, it has an outline
[08:21] <mvirkkil> froud: In svn?
[08:21] <froud> what are you working on
[08:21] <froud> yes
[08:22] <mpt> Structured Text 
[08:22] <mpt> HTML 
[08:22] <mpt> Plain Text
[08:22] <mvirkkil> froud: I've got a non-computer project, and then work.
[08:22] <mpt> ... where's the "MoinMoin" option?
[08:22] <froud> jsgotangco: good points on help
[08:22] <froud> mpt: a web-based app
[08:23] <mpt> froud: what?
[08:23] <froud> you writing a web-based app
[08:23] <froud> or is this command line
[08:23] <mpt> No, I'm trying to edit the wiki
[08:23] <jsgotangco> froud, you read my email?
[08:23] <froud> jsgotangco: yes
[08:23] <froud> mpt: Oh ok
[08:23] <mpt> froud: I've seen in the mailing list that (a) the wiki accepts MoinMoin syntax and (b) it's going to be using MoinMoin exclusively in the future
[08:23] <jsgotangco> froud, what you think? i just had that idea last night after Burgundavia and jdub were talking
[08:23] <mpt> but I don't see a MoinMoin option when editing
[08:24] <froud> mpt: the mon system needs to be installed. Or is it already
[08:24] <froud> jsgotangco: the stuff about the packaging is correct
[08:25] <froud> mpt: I know the udu system was using moin
[08:25] <froud> but I dont know if the main site has moin
[08:26] <mpt> apparently not
<span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-style: italic;"><br>

[08:26] <mpt> yik
[08:26] <jdub> mpt: plone doesn't do moinmoin, but zwiki does
[08:27] <froud> mor jdub 
[08:28] <jdub> yo
[08:28] <froud> Burgundavia: how's it going with porting ubuntuguide to xml in svn
[08:28] <jsgotangco> hi jdub 
[08:28] <froud> jsgotangco: saw your patches on kwickguide, thnaks
[08:28] <froud> jsgotangco: just keep hacking dude
[08:29] <froud> ignore the noise
[08:29] <jsgotangco> yeah
[08:29] <jsgotangco> i know what you mean
[08:29] <jsgotangco> froud, a question
[08:29] <froud> jsgotangco: I should find some time to take a look at it and give feedback
[08:29] <froud> ? yes
[08:29] <jsgotangco> what i emailed today, was enrico responsible for cleaning up packaged docs?
[08:30] <froud> jsgotangco: enrico just packages, butthe real problem is yelp and scrollkeeper
[08:30] <jsgotangco> yes i got it all together last night
[08:30] <froud> not the most flexible
[08:31] <jsgotangco> i wasn't able to attend the cc meeting because of it
[08:31] <jsgotangco> i was thinking what's wrong with it
[08:31] <mpt> No Preview function either
[08:31] <mpt> Boy, and I thought MoinMoin was bad :-)
[08:31] <froud> all wiki stuff sucks for user documents
[08:31] <froud> nice for wikipedia
[08:31] <froud> not for long docs
[08:32] <jsgotangco> froud, so what i emailed, is it possible or not?
[08:32] <froud> jsgotangco: everyting is possible
[08:32] <froud> jsgotangco: just need time
[08:32] <jsgotangco> im not aiming this for breezy
[08:32] <froud> and willing hands
[08:32] <jsgotangco> its just not possible with only 2 hands
[08:33] <jsgotangco> and learning at the same time
[08:33] <froud> it is
[08:33] <jsgotangco> but im not giving up on it
[08:33] <froud> somebody just need to take it by the horns
[08:33] <froud> but overall, yelp is weak
[08:33] <froud> nice for gnome docs, but that is about it
[08:34] <jsgotangco> yeah i noticed the difference between yelp and khelpcenter
[08:34] <froud> however, since people cant get beyond yelp we are stuck
[08:34] <jsgotangco> but khelpcenter isn't good at organizing either or probably just having the right tree structure
[08:34] <froud> neither is good
[08:34] <froud> linux misses a good tool for this
[08:35] <froud> more flexible
[08:35] <froud> we just need to target html
[08:35] <froud> I think we spoke about this
[08:35] <mdke> morning guys
[08:35] <froud> mdke: morn
[08:35] <froud> jsgotangco: but these issues are just noicse
[08:36] <mdke> hows it going?
[08:36] <froud> people need to focus on writing
[08:36] <froud> mdke: slow burn
[08:36] <mdke> froud, ;)
[08:37] <froud> jsgotangco: which is why I say to you keep hacking kwick guide
[08:37] <froud> ingnore the noise
[08:37] <froud> who is gonna adopt the user guide
[08:37] <froud> cummon somebody my love that 
[08:37] <froud> must love
[08:38] <froud> jsgotangco: I think it is time the team stopped focusing on everyting else and just focuse don SVN
[08:38] <froud> UDU is over
[08:39] <froud> noting great about docs there
[08:39] <froud> so lets just go for the docs
[08:39] <froud> stuff the rest
[08:40] <froud> jsgotangco: Burgundavia : That includes trying to get people to understand the roundtripping approach we wanted with the portal
[08:40] <froud> nice to have, but I dont think Canonical is playing ball on this
[08:40] <froud> so stuff them
[08:40] <mpt> froud: Okay, I've never used svn before. Is there a step-by-step guide for setting up and checking out the Ubuntu help?
[08:40] <froud> go for the jugular and do the docs
[08:41] <mdke> mpt, yeah hang on
[08:41] <froud> mpt: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamStepByStepRepository
[08:41] <mdke> *grins*
[08:42] <froud> mpt: there are plenty of hands to help you get up to speed with svn and docbook
[08:43] <mdke> froud, don't give up so easily on a portal, we haven't pushed that hard on it yet, maybe its not over yet
[08:43] <froud> I think we need to make it clear that everyone on the team is like totally empowered to hack svn
[08:43] <mdke> i agree
[08:43] <froud> mdke: really, I I am tired of speaking to people at Canonical
[08:43] <froud> too much religion dude
[08:44] <froud> wasting time
[08:44] <mdke> froud, how much dialogue did you have with them about the portal?
[08:44] <froud> enough
[08:44] <froud> This amongst a few proposals
[08:44] <froud> lots of inpt 0 out
[08:44] <froud> time wated
[08:44] <mdke> froud, are you mad at them because of something else, or just the portal
[08:44] <froud> wasted
[08:45] <froud> nah, not mad
[08:45] <mdke> clearly if they are keen enough on putting resources into a translating interface, they can be persuaded to put resources into a documentating interface :)
[08:45] <froud> feel sorry for them
[08:45] <froud> mdke: yep
[08:45] <mdke> but i agree, for now, we can concentrate on what we have
[08:45] <froud> anyway
[08:45] <froud> yes, just stuff them
[08:45] <mdke> *grins*
[08:45] <froud> and lets go on with the plan
[08:46] <froud> maybe one day the attitude will change
[08:46] <froud> so for now lets just have fun
[08:46] <froud> lets just do what we want in the docs
[08:46] <froud> no pressure
[08:46] <froud> what we have we have, what we dont we dont
[08:47] <froud> we will aim for breezy to do what we can
[08:47] <mdke> ok
[08:47] <mdke> i need to get moving
[08:47] <mdke> class calls
[08:47] <froud> if it is half baked and not the best, then tuff
[08:47] <mdke> damn these early mornings
[08:47] <froud> mdke: cheers
[08:47] <mdke> froud, keep the faith
[08:47] <froud> but not in canonical, just the community
[08:48] <mdke> in the docteam ;)
[08:48] <froud> sure
[08:48] <mdke> ok cool
[08:48] <mdke> see you later
[08:48] <froud> I must get dressed and start work
[08:48] <mdke> afk
[08:48] <froud> c ya
[08:49] <mpt> How do I verify the certificate?
[08:50] <mpt> These "Canonical Ltd" people sound suspicious
[09:09] <Burgundavia> mpt, you still there?
[09:11] <Burgundavia> froud-work, I haven't even touching anything with docs recently
[09:11] <froud-work> Ok, what do you want to do?
[09:11] <Burgundavia> no, more that I have had other shit going on
[09:11] <Burgundavia> the stuff is still on slow burn for me
[09:12] <jsgotangco> i just had a phone call sorry i was afk for a bit
[09:12] <froud-work> other shit, you mean not docs stuff?
[09:12] <Burgundavia> life shit
[09:14] <froud-work> good shit I hope
[09:14] <Burgundavia> some good, some bad
[09:15] <froud-work> so life is normall then :-)
[09:15] <Burgundavia> yep
[09:15] <Burgundavia> you saw in the scrollback that jdub and I talked last night, both on the phone and in here
[09:15] <froud-work> OK, so did you fix your key thing
[09:15] <froud-work> yes
[09:15] <froud-work> Burgundavia: I am not wasting more time on this
[09:15] <Burgundavia> froud-work, I have given elmo my new key, so he should be getting me a new password sometime soon
[09:16] <jsgotangco> i moved on
[09:16] <froud-work> I still believe our thinking and rational are good
[09:16] <froud-work> but I am not going to push these dudes
[09:16] <froud-work> I am just gonna have fun
[09:16] <jsgotangco> me too
[09:17] <jsgotangco> let me figure out where to start though heh
[09:17] <jsgotangco> this yelp/scrollkeeper thing intrigues me
[09:17] <froud-work> and if the stuff outside gets out of control and if ittakes yonks to do the stuff in svn, I could not give a shit
[09:17] <froud-work> I dont even care if the stuff in svn gets into the distro
[09:18] <froud-work> I just care that I now have fun with this
[09:18] <froud-work> if they want to solve problems, then they can pay me :-)
[09:18] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[09:18] <jsgotangco> good idea
[09:21] <froud-work> Burgundavia: jsgotangco so I am here, but not going to give the same care and passion I did in the past
[09:22] <froud-work> from here in I am here to have fun, no pressure, let the guys at Canonical take the pressure and worry about things
[09:23] <froud-work> it does mean that my commits will be when I have time and when I feel like doing
[09:23] <froud-work> if I feel like doing
[09:23] <jsgotangco> froud-work, understandable you have a business after all
[09:23] <froud-work> yes, but a large part of my business is FOSS
[09:24] <froud-work> btw dudes, I released a new version of my web site, in a hurry, feedback is welcome
[09:24] <froud-work> http://www.inwords.co.za
[09:24] <froud-work> it's an apache forrest
[09:24] <froud-work> Yes dudes JAVA
[09:24] <froud-work> JAVA
[09:24] <froud-work> JAVA
[09:24] <froud-work> JAVA
[09:25] <froud-work> ooooh I like saying that
[09:25] <froud-work> especially here where people seem not to like it
[09:25] <jsgotangco> my eyes! my eye!
[09:25] <jsgotangco> froud-work, you removed your picture heh
[09:26] <froud-work> No it is there
[09:26] <Burgundavia> froud-work, odd bug on your site
[09:26] <froud-work> http://www.inwords.co.za/management.html
[09:26] <Burgundavia> the first four tabs display first, then the next 2
[09:26] <froud-work> bug must be where
[09:26] <jsgotangco> oh there it is
[09:26] <Burgundavia> next 3
[09:26] <froud-work> Huh, dont understand Burgundavia 
[09:27] <froud-work> you dont see all tabs or they load is strange order
[09:27] <Burgundavia> froud-work, when I click on any of the tabs, as the page loads, the first 4 tabs are rendered, then the remaining 3
[09:27] <Burgundavia> might be a firefox bug
[09:27] <froud-work> I dont see it in Firefax
[09:27] <Burgundavia> otherwise I don't see anything
[09:27] <froud-work> Hmm
[09:28] <froud-work> you dont see anyting, no text
[09:28] <jsgotangco> i dont see it either in firefox or ephiphany
[09:28] <froud-work> ephinany works
[09:28] <froud-work> I did not test 
[09:28] <froud-work> opera, ie, moz and firefox, konqueror
[09:29] <froud-work> but something i borked in konqueror
[09:29] <froud-work> the fonts are so small
[09:29] <froud-work> btw all the content is docbook
[09:30] <jsgotangco> im not surprised
[09:30] <froud-work> inkscape svg for images transformed to png
[09:30] <froud-work> just love inkscape
[09:32] <froud-work> now having it translated to 11 languages
[09:33] <froud-work> Afrikaans, Zulu, Xhosa, Sepedi, Setswana, Sesotho, Venda, Tsonga, Ndebele, Swati 
[09:33] <froud-work> 
[09:33] <froud-work> 
[09:34] <jsgotangco> doh
[09:34] <jsgotangco> im only familiar with Afrikaans and Xhosa
[09:35] <froud-work> jsgotangco: you know learnlinux
[09:35] <jsgotangco> yeah
[09:35] <jsgotangco> im impressed by it
[09:35] <froud-work> I am going to translate it to Zulu and then give it to some guys to go teach linux in the South African townships
[09:36] <froud-work> figure, that will help them get jobs
[09:36] <jsgotangco> za seems to have an exciting FOSS environment
[09:36] <froud-work> its good and bad
[09:36] <froud-work> hopefully linux world will have a better impact
[09:37] <jsgotangco> there will be a linux world there?
[09:37] <jsgotangco> wow
[09:37] <froud-work> yes, see icon on my web site
[09:37] <froud-work> we are all excited about it, first time here in za
[09:38] <jsgotangco> jeezzz i haven't been in a linux world event in my entire life
[09:38] <froud-work> I think if nothing happens from it at least we will have given away a shit load of free software ?
[09:38] <froud-work> :-)
[09:38] <froud-work> A few distros will be there
[09:39] <froud-work> sabfl will be speaking at the conference
[09:39] <froud-work> and mad dog
[09:39] <jsgotangco> the open source scene in asia is exciting in general, but i must be unlucky to live in a country where its ignored
[09:39] <froud-work> you have to make it happen
[09:39] <froud-work> it wont just happen on its own
[09:40] <jsgotangco> well for sure a handful of people won't be able to make it happen
[09:40] <froud-work> many of us have spent hours and lot sof money to make it happen
[09:40] <jsgotangco> especially if you're talking 7,100 islands
[09:40] <froud-work> I am sure it will bring results
[09:40] <froud-work> He he that could be lots of user groups
[09:40] <jsgotangco> yeah
[09:41] <froud-work> community is th ekey
[09:41] <froud-work> well to me at least
[09:41] <froud-work> we have about 11 here in za
[09:42] <froud-work> he he we actually managed to get the exhibition organizers to give us a stand for the LUGs of SOuth AFrica, free :-)
[09:42] <froud-work> we just blugioned them into doing it
[09:42] <jsgotangco> haha
[09:43] <froud-work> and we quickly gathered about ZAR 3000 for fixures and stuff
[09:43] <froud-work> which reminds me I must check how the stand posters are doing
[09:44] <froud-work> now we are looking for people to man the stand,
[09:44] <froud-work> seems there are lots of volunteers willing to stand there for an hour or two
[09:44] <jsgotangco> im sure you can find people to man that with 11 lugs
[09:45] <froud-work> yeah, this show is in johannesburg
[09:45] <froud-work> so it will have to be from the surrounding lugs
[09:45] <jsgotangco> which is better cape town or johannesburg?
[09:45] <froud-work> I guess the guys in Cape Town will do the same when Linuxworld is held there later this year
[09:45] <Burgundavia> hmm, paradise vs. joburg?
[09:46] <froud-work> cape is beautiful, joburg has money :-) take your pick
[09:46] <Burgundavia> joburg is the current murder capital of the world
[09:46] <jsgotangco> i like beautiful
[09:46] <jsgotangco> i dont need that much money to live decently
[09:46] <froud-work> Burgundavia: we have our problems
[09:46] <Burgundavia> a second cousin of mine was killed in joburg about 3 months ago
[09:46] <froud-work> but we also have a historical past that is part of todays problems
[09:47] <froud-work> oh no, I am sorry to hear that
[09:47] <Burgundavia> she decided to argue with some carjackers, and lunged towards them
[09:47] <froud-work> not a good idea in a country where the value of life is very low
[09:47] <jsgotangco> hmm
[09:48] <jsgotangco> i got to watch this movie that had ice cube in za
[09:48] <jsgotangco> it was very bad
[09:48] <Burgundavia> ouch
[09:48] <froud-work> well, it has gotten a lot better
[09:48] <jsgotangco> thats why when i hear of za, it still reminds me of the past
[09:48] <jsgotangco> probably because i haven't been there at all
[09:49] <froud-work> problem is we have mllions who need access to education and linux is a good way to do it
[09:49] <jsgotangco> africa is one continent i haven't even thought of going before
[09:49] <froud-work> you should come
[09:49] <froud-work> it is beautiful
[09:50] <jsgotangco> its totally alien to most asians
[09:50] <froud-work> maybe oneday we will have an ubuntu africa conference
[09:50] <Burgundavia> the launchpad people came to cape town in feb.
[09:50] <froud-work> we have a huge asian community here
[09:50] <jsgotangco> let me guess chinese
[09:50] <jsgotangco> heh
[09:50] <jsgotangco> they're everywhere
[09:50] <froud-work> all types
[09:50] <froud-work> they are very productive
[09:50] <Burgundavia> gandhi praticed law in SA
[09:51] <froud-work> and make a huge contribution
[09:51] <jsgotangco> small businesses?
[09:51] <froud-work> although I prefer not to categorize people by race or religion
[09:51] <froud-work> some small some large
[09:52] <jsgotangco> hmm i see mdke got approval in the cc meeting
[09:52] <jsgotangco> i wasnt able to log in
[09:52] <froud-work> but point is to get Linux into the education system here
[09:53] <froud-work> cc meeting
[09:53] <froud-work> that's where sabfl's TSF projects are good
[09:53] <Burgundavia> approval?
[09:54] <froud-work> hey I must work, later dudes
[09:55] <jsgotangco> later
[10:23] <jsgotangco> jdub, busy?
[11:45] <Burgundavia> salut
[11:45] <jsgotangco> hello
[11:45] <jsgotangco> here goes the breezy upgrade
[11:45] <jsgotangco> heh
[11:45] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, you might want to wait
[11:46] <jsgotangco> dbus?
[11:46] <Burgundavia> they are about to break a whole load of shit
[11:46] <Burgundavia> ya
[11:46] <jsgotangco> yeah i read about it
[11:46] <jsgotangco> hmm
[11:46] <Burgundavia> if you haven't jumped, wait
[11:46] <Burgundavia> nothing special yet
[11:46] <jsgotangco> ok ill cancel this then
[11:47] <Burgundavia> I'm here now, so I will ride the storm out
[11:47] <Burgundavia> in other news, I am installing Hoary on my brothers machine tomorrow night
[11:48] <jsgotangco> well that's good news
[12:00] <Burgundavia> well, we had some fun with XP and activation
[12:10] <jsgotangco> xp activation here is non-existent, even if you buy legit xp, the serial is already activated and MS can't do anything about it
[12:11] <jsgotangco> even the couriers steal the keys
[12:11] <Burgundavia> indeed
[12:11] <Burgundavia> asia is rife with that
[12:12] <Burgundavia> most of the stolen XP in NA is hobbyists
[12:12] <jsgotangco> yeah it doesnt make sense you try to be legit here but yourself becomes a victim as well
[12:12] <Burgundavia> indeed
[12:12] <Burgundavia> that is why free software is good
[12:13] <Burgundavia> none of the licence crap
[12:13] <jsgotangco> ive seen schools in japan run turbo linux in classrooms for 3rd graders
[12:13] <Burgundavia> cool
[12:13] <Burgundavia> linux has almost no mindshare here
[12:13] <Burgundavia> education or otherwise
[12:14] <jsgotangco> what happened to k12 ltsp?
[12:14] <Burgundavia> is very lovely
[12:14] <Burgundavia> the only time linux gets adopted is when someone steps forward and pushes the project
[12:14] <Burgundavia> it has not moved to the next stage, which is recommended by govs/etc.
[12:15] <Burgundavia> well, there is linux in the local library
[12:15] <Burgundavia> www.userful.com <-- these people
[12:15] <Burgundavia> I had an interview with them
[12:16] <jsgotangco> hmm
[12:16] <jsgotangco> ltsp with licenses?
[12:16] <jsgotangco> thats not so cool
[12:16] <Burgundavia> not ltsp
[12:16] <Burgundavia> multihead
[12:16] <Burgundavia> massively multihead
[12:16] <jsgotangco> ahh
[12:16] <Burgundavia> slow, and sort of buggy
[12:16] <Burgundavia> but very useful and cheap
[12:16] <Burgundavia> and based on Fedora core
[12:23] <jsgotangco> im out
[12:23] <jsgotangco> seeyou later
[12:23] <Burgundavia> cya
[12:23] <Burgundavia> not my own?
[12:23] <Burgundavia> is 3:23 here
[12:23] <jsgotangco> yeah i noticed that
[02:43] <mdke> hi dudes
[02:51] <mdke> i've noticed a lot of french stuff is coming up in the wiki, its another one to add to the list of "untapped resources"
[02:52] <mdke> a lot of it is original work rather than translations
[02:52] <mdke> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/FrenchDocumentation
[03:41] <jjesse> morning :)
[03:48] <mdke> hi jjesse 
[03:48] <mdke> froud-work, thoughts on henriks email?
[03:50] <jjesse> hello mdke
[05:00] <mdke> hey sm
[05:01] <sm> hi all
[05:02] <mdke> how are you?
[05:03] <sm> great thanks
[05:04] <sm> working on client projects etc.
[05:04] <sm> yourself ?
[05:08] <froud> mdke: ginger
[05:08] <mdke> i'm very well
[05:08] <mdke> froud, eh?
[05:09] <froud> mdke: I dont want to break my nose on this
[05:09] <mdke> froud, i don't follow?
[05:10] <froud> As I said this morning, Canonical wont play ball, so neither will I
[05:10] <froud> I am focused on svn, period
[05:10] <froud> and determined to just have fun
[05:10] <mdke> without your input it will be difficult to explore that option
[05:10] <froud> if they want solutions and consulting, let them pay for it
[05:11] <mdke> none of us have experience of the process of transferring wiki material into the documentation
[05:11] <froud> my point exactly, they can pay me for it
[05:11] <froud> mdke: understand me
[05:11] <froud> mdke: I have put hours into solutions and idea
[05:11] <mdke> and that is a process which still has to continue even if the svn process remains the same
[05:12] <froud> mdke: my time has been for zero
[05:12] <mdke> i know that
[05:12] <froud> there is a place for wiki
[05:12] <froud> but not as it is used today
[05:12] <froud> I have a round trip solution
[05:12] <froud> I suggested I asked, and I discussed
[05:13] <mdke> with henrik/jane?
[05:13] <froud> it was put down as not importnat
[05:13] <froud> my focus is not about wiki
[05:13] <froud> it was seperate from
[05:13] <froud> sabfl and others
[05:14] <froud> wiki is not for documentation
[05:14] <froud> nice for wikipedia
[05:14] <froud> not howtos and books
[05:15] <froud> when this strated we wante dthe ease of editing in a wiki with the power of xml
[05:15] <froud> I tested and formed a solution
[05:15] <froud> but people dont see it
[05:16] <froud> instead they keep trying to use a spoon to hammer a 6-inch nail
[05:16] <froud> at this point I stopped caring and decided to focus on svn and ignore the noise
[05:16] <mdke> my opinion is that your solution has not been given enough visibility, clearly henrik and jane have not heard about it.
[05:17] <froud> Hmmm. chats, meetings, email messages, phone calls
[05:17] <froud> not enough
[05:17] <froud> and since when was it janes
[05:18] <froud> jane just came in at the end
[05:18] <mdke> they are both new
[05:18] <mdke> don't forget sabfdl is the sort of person who gets a million ideas and follows up a million things and then is liable to forget them
[05:18] <froud> yeah
[05:19] <froud> but we have enough of the canonical team in knowledge of the idea
[05:19] <froud> but jdub's take is we dont need it
[05:20] <froud> this is pretty much indicative of the persepctive
[05:20] <froud> so stuff it and focus on docs in svn I say
[05:20] <froud> let, wiki problems grow bigger
[05:20] <froud> maybe when there is enough pain they will react
[05:21] <mdke> i agree on focusing on docs, but even so, we still need a process for using the material in the wiki, rather than writing all docs from scratch, right?
[05:21] <froud> dont know how, but at this point they have lost my support to impliment a solution *free of charge*
[05:21] <mdke> froud, copy/paste?
[05:21] <froud> that is one way the other ways are in wiki under docteam
[05:21] <froud> none are perfct
[05:21] <froud> need some human intervention
[05:21] <mdke> k
[05:21] <mdke> sure
[05:22] <froud> but much less that copy paste
[05:22] <froud> ;-)
[05:22] <mdke> so have you decided not to write on that thread?
[05:22] <froud> yep I have and will continue to ignore all wiki issues
[05:22] <froud> what I have read
[05:22] <froud> does not address the crux of the problem
[05:23] <froud> and wont because wiki is a spoon, not a hammer
[05:23] <froud> my support is now limited to svn
[05:24] <mdke> ok
[05:24] <mdke> fair enough
[05:24] <froud> at first I was just gonna focus on fringe docs and drop docteam, but I thought that was harsh
[05:24] <mdke> *grins*
[05:24] <mdke> there are always gonna be non-perfect solutions
[05:25] <mdke> doesn't mean we shouldn't keep trying
[05:25] <froud> so instead of getting caught up in all this nonsense about wiki, I just keep my nose form getting broken by staying out of it
[05:25] <mdke> your call
[05:25] <froud> yep, pretty much
[05:25] <froud> I have not been involved with wiki since I got here
[05:26] <froud> people know that I like wiki, but think it is just the wrong tool
[05:26] <mdke> i tend to agree
[05:26] <froud> everything has a place
[05:26] <mdke> but at the same time we need to use the resources of people who contribute to it
[05:26] <froud> so what are you going to write on in svn :-)
[05:27] <froud> that is Canonicals call ;-) and the crux of the problem
[05:27] <mdke> i'll tend towards the gnome side
[05:27] <mdke> userguide is priority i presume
[05:27] <froud> good which book do you want to hack
[05:27] <froud> nice
[05:27] <froud> I suggest you just go for it
[05:27] <mdke> but i will probably be better at editing than writing from scratch
[05:27] <mdke> i am no geek
[05:28] <froud> no geek, but that is good
[05:28] <froud> you just write and go for it
[05:28] <mdke> sure
[05:28] <froud> blind yourself to the noise
[05:28] <mdke> *grins*
[05:28] <mdke> nope
[05:29] <froud> unless it has to do with what you are working on
[05:29] <mdke> since i joined ubuntu my contribution has been mainly organisational and trying to enhance communication
[05:29] <mdke> no reason to stop now ;)
[05:29] <froud> you are key in i18n
[05:30] <froud> love you for it
[05:30] <froud> dont stop with that
[05:30] <mdke> i won't
[05:30] <froud> but all this wiki crap
[05:30] <froud> my advice is to blind from it
[05:30] <froud> it's a hornets nest
[05:30] <froud> and a time waster
[05:31] <froud>  focus on writing
[05:31] <froud> we dont expect a shakespear
[05:31] <froud> and the eyeballs will fix any problems
[05:31] <mdke> sure
[05:32] <mdke> but i'm gonna carry on doing a bit of liasing on the wiki thing
[05:32] <froud> your call ;-)
[05:32] <mdke> not necessary for the web portal business, but just for the zwiki->moin transition process
[05:33] <mdke> hey i'm a lawyer
[05:33] <mdke> can't resist the liasing
[05:33] <mdke> :p
[05:33] <froud> if you see something in wiki that you want to port, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/ConvertWikiToDocbook
[05:34] <mdke> will do
[05:34] <froud> legal hey
[05:34] <froud> I did not know that
[05:35] <mdke> no?
[05:35] <mdke> i'm not quite a lawyer
[05:35] <mdke> still training
[05:35] <froud> Ah ha
[05:35] <mdke> starting work in october
[05:35] <froud> well that to me is a legal bunny
[05:35] <froud> I like my legal bunny
[05:35] <froud> but not his bills
[05:36] <mdke> *grins*
[05:36] <mdke> bunny?
[05:37] <froud> next time you see a rabbit look into its eye and tell me he is not a lawyer
[05:37] <froud> that cute exterior
[05:37] <mdke> bunnies are cute inside too surely
[05:37] <froud> but analytical interior
[05:38] <froud> nah a bunny is always watching you
[05:38] <froud> and thinking
[05:38] <mdke> *grins*
[05:38] <froud> and hops from place to place in search of carrot
[05:38] <froud> give a bunny a carrot and he will look for a bigger one
[05:39] <froud> the bigger the carrot, the faster he hops
[05:39] <mdke> sounds like you have nasty bunnies
[05:39] <froud> either that or very bright
[05:39] <mdke> anyway, you're right that lawyers hop faster for bigger carrots
[05:40] <froud> you see, legal bunny
[05:40] <froud> legal bof
[05:40] <froud> lawyers and accountants
[05:40] <froud> alwys twist it to what they want to say
[05:40] <froud> like how much is 1+ 1
[05:41] <froud> what do you want  it to be
[05:41] <froud> whereas me I just see 1 and 0
[05:41] <mdke> *grins*
[05:41] <froud> null between
[05:41] <mdke> i'm quite black and white myself
[05:41] <froud> but they have their uses
[05:42] <mdke> my girlfriend on the other hand
[05:42] <mdke> ...
[05:42] <froud> Hmmm, women, now there's a peice of work when they are lawyers or accountants
[05:42] <froud> I account is a woman
[05:43] <froud> love her to
[05:43] <froud> drop dead grogious
[05:43] <froud> gorgious
[05:43] <froud> I feel sorry for the tax man
[05:43] <Kinnison> froud: "gorgeous" :-)
[05:43] <froud> but it is hard to concerntrate when you have a meeting with her
[05:44] <froud> Hello Kinnison 
[05:44] <froud> hows the chic today
[05:45] <froud> MIPS now there is a system I have not seen in awhile
[05:45] <froud> oops giving away my age
[05:46] <froud> Nice systems, never had one fall over
[05:46] <froud> so I have fond memory of them
[05:46] <froud> feel the same about vax
[05:47] <froud> and as/400
[05:47] <mdke> Be RiGhT bAcK
[05:47] <froud> why did those things never break, but todays systems break all the time
[05:47] <froud> bring back mainframe
[05:48] <froud> Kinnison: did you know that IBM installe dover 200 mainframe systems last year ?
[05:48] <Kinnison> Seems plausible
[05:48] <froud> and heres people thinking it was dead
[05:49] <froud> well many people think the same about cobol, but it is still strong
[05:52] <Kinnison> froud: unfortunately :-)
[05:52] <Kinnison> COBOL really needs to die
[05:53] <froud> why
[05:53] <froud> J2EE compatible and .Net Compliant
[05:53] <froud> Ok a bit verbose
[05:54] <froud> but heck it does the trick will for business logic
[05:54] <froud> XML and Web Services are not a problem
[05:54] <froud> Nah, it's OK
[05:55] <froud> not as nice as Java or C++, but Cobol still rocks
[11:16] <Burgundavia> salut mpt
[11:16] <Burgundavia> can I get a comment on something?
[11:17] <mpt> good moaning Burgundavia
[11:18] <Burgundavia> can you give a quick comment on this bug? http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=303759
[11:22] <mpt> Burgundavia: I agree with you
[11:22] <Burgundavia> ok, can you say as much on that bug?
[11:24] <mpt> How would that help?
[11:24] <mpt> I think the thing most likely to help now would be a patch
[11:24] <Burgundavia> people often colour there judgements by who says it
[11:24] <Burgundavia> ah
[11:25] <Burgundavia> think I can convince an ubuntu person to do it?
[11:32] <mpt> Well, the Ubuntu plan of action is to package serpentine in main
[11:33] <Burgundavia> yes, I was playing with it
[11:33] <Burgundavia> very cool
[11:33] <Burgundavia> that is why I thought of the UI in it
[11:33] <mpt> So you'd need to convince someone who doesn't already have their plate full of BoF-driven work, perhaps
[11:33] <Burgundavia> yep
[11:33] <Burgundavia> probably a pretty easy thing to do
[11:34] <Burgundavia> I heard that the nautilus code is quite clean
[11:40] <Burgundavia> filed a bug in b.u.c