=== rave [~rave@212-127-146-168.cable.quicknet.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === moquist_ [~moquist@pool-64-223-170-46.man.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jiyuu0|work [~jiyuu0@219.95.241.41] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === smartretard [~smartreta@24-55-52-159.lmdaca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Seveas [~seveas@seveas.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dholbach [~daniel@td9091b75.pool.terralink.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === siretart [siretart@tauware.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === JaneW [~JaneW@dumbledore.hbd.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pitti [~martin@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pitti [~martin@box79162.elkhouse.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === pitti [~martin@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Simira [~Simira@56.80-202-210.nextgentel.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mvo [~egon@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Seveas [~seveas@ksl403-uva-132.wireless.uva.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dholbach [~daniel@td9091b75.pool.terralink.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Verlassend"] === jdthood [jdthood@x096.decis.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jdthood [jdthood@x096.decis.nl] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Client] === mjg59 [mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === JaneW [~JaneW@dumbledore.hbd.com] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] === jiyuu0 [~jiyuu0@211.24.249.58] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dholbach [~daniel@td9091b75.pool.terralink.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === JaneW [~JaneW@dumbledore.hbd.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === JaneW [~JaneW@dumbledore.hbd.com] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] === dholbach [~daniel@td9091b75.pool.terralink.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Verlassend"] === astharot [~isager@host250-27.pool62110.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === astharot [~isager@host250-27.pool62110.interbusiness.it] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] === weazle [~weazle@flits101-191.flits.rug.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cc [~cc@c210-49-121-44.eburwd3.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pitti [~martin@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pitti [~martin@box79162.elkhouse.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === thom [~thom@amnesiac.heapspace.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === doko [~doko___@dsl-084-059-052-160.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jiyuu0 [~jiyuu0@219.95.241.41] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mako [mako@micha.hampshire.edu] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === rave [~rave@212-127-146-168.cable.quicknet.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Seveas [~seveas@seveas.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dholbach [~daniel@td9091b75.pool.terralink.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ggross [~ggross@ip-62-129-171-170.evc.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === uniq [charlie@213.184.199.55] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === rave [~rave@212-127-146-168.cable.quicknet.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jiyuu0 [~jiyuu0@219.95.241.41] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === maskie [~maskie@196-30-109-31.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === siretart [siretart@tauware.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === warthylog [~warthylog@port49.ds1-van.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Topic for #ubuntu-meeting: Tue 24 May 22:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || Tue 17 May 20:00 UTC: Tech Board || http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || This is NOT #ubuntu, nor #ubuntu-devel === Topic (#ubuntu-meeting): set by dholbach at Tue May 10 20:06:03 2005 === sbibayof1 [~evonski@65.116.143.80] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === sbibayof1 [~evonski@65.116.143.80] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === minghua [~minghua@danube.mems.rice.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Nafallo [~nafallo@nafallo.user] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === \sh [~shermann@server3.servereyes.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra [~ogra@p5089FB28.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra gets some coffee [08:56] get me a cup as well [08:56] please :-) [08:56] sure [08:56] <\sh> hmmm... === siretart just got back from dinner ;) [08:57] hmm, I wonder if I need workrave or something... [08:57] workrave is gooood === jani [~pet@Home03207.cluj.astral.ro] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:58] silly sheep... [08:58] hello all [08:58] hai jani [08:58] doh! I forgot the doughnuts... === ogra prefers gnome-typing-monitor [08:58] the damn thing was irritating last time I tried ;-) [08:58] <\sh> who or what is workrave? [08:58] \sh, install it [08:59] <\sh> ogra: no...the last time you said this, i had to become a ubuntu addict ... ;) [08:59] hehe [08:59] <\sh> +n [08:59] hehe [08:59] ah, you mean the package workrave. :) === Seveas [~seveas@seveas.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:00] morning [09:00] hey ajmitch_ [09:01] (will be in and out for a few more minutes, talking with boss) [09:01] crimsun: good luck [09:02] guys a question re. BOF specs === chmj [~charles@wbs-196-46-69-187.wbs.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:02] what's with those like [09:02] http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmaImplementation [09:02] hi chmj === ogra puts a huge, hot steaming well flavored pot of coffe on the table [09:02] they link to password protected area on canonical.com [09:02] milk [09:02] ` === ajmitch_ drinks it all [09:02] ? [09:02] sugar ? [09:03] just sugar, thanks [09:03] <\sh> no milk no sugar just black... [09:03] jani: those are for the malone/launchpad crew, i'm not sure when it will hit us other guys [09:03] dholbach, thanks [09:03] hi ajmitch_ [09:04] <\sh> oh malone...is it working again? [09:04] ok... can we get cracking? [09:04] doko just finished briefing us about our next big target: UniverseCxxTransition [09:05] you will find the rationale for all this well described on https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/BreezyToolchainTransition [09:05] maybe we should all dive into it for some seconds :-) === ogra points to #ubuntu-toolchain for toolchain specific questions after this meeting..... [09:06] especially the points after "C++ ABI Transition" are of big importance for all of us === koke [~koke@adsl229-164.unizar.es] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === herve [~hcauwelie@ip-3.net-81-220-179.nice.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:07] in short: as the C++ ABI with g++4.0 will break we will have to recompile ALL c++ packages [09:07] unfortunately just recompiling wont suffice [09:07] which means finding any package that uses c++ [09:07] doko did a lot of work on this already: CxxLibraryList [09:07] which means we have to do it bottom up... [09:07] ... will be our first taget === Danten [~danten@h40n8c1o1049.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:08] the attack plan is something like this: [09:08] 1) freeze c++ applications from uploads [09:08] ajmitch_: these should be able to identify by looking at the reverse dependencies of libstdc++6 [09:08] 2) fix libraries [09:08] 3) fix applications using c++ [09:08] uploads of apps that use c++ will be rejected until the libs are all built [09:08] siretart: sadly, that doesn't find them all [09:08] mostly ;) [09:09] ajmitch_, you dont have to care for the apps yet [09:09] if you have a look at https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CxxLibraryList and https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CxxApplicationList you will see nice lists of them [09:09] that means the libs must be done quickly, I suppose === jabra [~jabra@polish.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:09] just have a look at every app you upload and drop the upload if its c++ [09:09] we will do a nice and clean job, but the sooner the better [09:09] chmj, right [09:10] shouldn't take much more than a week ;) [09:10] now: what we will have to do is: applying patches, if stuff doesnt build - gladly debian provided us with loads of patches for that [09:10] we agreed with doko to start on Tuesday with the transition [09:10] UTC ? [09:10] and changing the library package name [09:10] the binary package, not the source package === jabra [~jabra@polish.ccs.neu.edu] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] [09:11] as you can see on BreezyToolchainTransition we will add a "c2" [09:11] <\sh> i see a lot of qt and kde stuff [09:11] chmj, we didnt agree on a time, heh [09:11] \sh, yep... [09:11] \sh: that'll be the C++ :) [09:11] \sh: this is where Riddell steps in === seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-30-146.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:11] chmj: we'll post the exact date [09:12] <\sh> as i heard on kde rumors ;) are telling that gcc 4 is in the moment a "nono" [09:12] and time ... [09:12] hello seb [09:12] hi [09:12] <\sh> Riddell: am i right? [09:12] dholbach: or remove c102 if it exists :-) [09:12] \sh, for 3.4 ? [09:12] meetings marathon? :) [09:12] minghua: exactly [09:12] \sh: I'm reliably told that we have a cvs version of gcc which inclues the fix for the KDE problems [09:12] <\sh> ogra: 4.x is far away ; [09:12] you can read the "naming conventions" on BreezyToolchainTransition [09:13] <\sh> Riddell: sounds great [09:13] we will start on CxxLibraryList and the implementation plan can be found on top [09:13] 1) mark the package in the list with your name [09:13] if you find omething you dont understand, feel free to ask us, we will point you kindly to doko then ;) [09:13] Riddell: the upstream changelogs are included in the gcc binaries as well, so you can search for the bug number [09:13] 2) look for patches in either bugzilla.ubuntu.com (for main) or on UniverseCxxTransition for universe [09:13] ogra sees a flying toaster ... [09:14] heh === siretart is a bit confused. Will the default be gcc-3.4 or gcc-4.0? [09:14] 4.0 === ogra ducks [09:14] 3) For each library (for universe as well), create a bug report at http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/, the subject/title must start with [CXX transition] [09:14] siretart, 4 [09:14] ok [09:14] and 4) attach the debdiff [09:14] dholbach, do we write that down anywhere = [09:14] ? [09:15] ogra: what exactly? [09:15] your four points [09:15] ogra: all on the CxxLibraryList page [09:15] oh [09:15] yeah === ogra blushes.... [09:15] we won't have to change the build-depends (generally) [09:15] tables are to fascinating to me.... [09:15] since dpkg-shlideps will work it out for us [09:16] any questions? [09:16] <\sh> hmmm... [09:16] when will the compiler be switched? [09:16] <\sh> missing packages? [09:16] <\sh> should we put them directly on https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CxxLibraryList [09:16] ajmitch_, it already is [09:16] <\sh> ? [09:17] ajmitch_: we will start on tuesday [09:17] \sh, sure... and note it in the comment [09:17] ok [09:17] ajmitch_, its switched already [09:17] everybody has to be sure to have build-essential of version 11 installed [09:17] are there any special actions planned for java apps? === ajmitch_ must have missed the switch.. [09:17] dholbach: I have a question about how the CxxLibraryList is made [09:17] ajmitch_: and all the details on the BreezyToolchainTransition page [09:17] dholbach: I am looking at my (Debian) package scim, and see that scim-gtk2-immodule is listed [09:17] minghua: ask doko [09:18] doko ? do we bug you or jbailey for java ? [09:18] dholbach: okay [09:18] heh, jbailey should be fine :) [09:18] ok [09:18] dholbach: version 11 is to be found where? [09:18] \sh: what do you mean by missing packages? === ajmitch_ enjoys bugging jbailey :) [09:18] ogra, carefull, he don't like java [09:18] Nafallo, in breezy ? [09:18] <\sh> dholbach: like python-sip python-qt and stuff :) [09:19] Nafallo, ogra: will be uploaded by then [09:19] chmj, _wo_ likes it ? [09:19] doko: scim-gtk2-immodule only contains gtk2 dynamic loaded module in /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.4.0/immodules, why is it on CxxLibraryList? [09:19] who even [09:19] dholbach: oki :-) [09:19] sun, microsystems :p [09:19] ogra: 10.1ubuntu1 atm :-) [09:19] heh [09:19] Nafallo: wait, I'll upload test packages [09:19] we also have #ubuntu-java [09:19] doko: oki :-) [09:19] dholbach, build-essential=11 installed locally? Can we not build in a breezy pbuilder chroot on a hoary install? [09:19] breezy pbuilder will be fine [09:20] ok [09:20] if you should run into questions and they get answered somewhere... make sure you write it down on the wiki :-) [09:20] sure [09:20] <\sh> hmm.write howto work with two pbuilder enviroments [09:20] what else would I do with my weekend? ;) [09:20] \sh, why two ? [09:21] <\sh> ogra: hoary and breezy...I like comparisons :) [09:21] \sh: make that three and I'll be happy to :-). [09:21] we'll have BIG FUN and will do the job admirably :-) [09:21] will we ? [09:21] Nafallo: did you stop hanging out on #d-w? [09:21] of course! [09:21] <\sh> Nafallo: three? for what? breezy unstable, ah ok ;) [09:21] YEAH !! === herve [~hcauwelie@ip-3.net-81-220-179.nice.rev.numericable.fr] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["sorry,] === eruin [~eruin@eruin.user] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:22] Simira: yea, I've dropped out of debian for the moment ;-). [09:22] lets have FUN !! [09:22] \sh: warty-security? :-) [09:22] the attack plan is clear? [09:22] sure [09:22] ogra: bringing the beer? ;) [09:22] dholbach, seems to be clear enough [09:22] <\sh> Nafallo: oh...hmmm...well if i can configure two...i think we can extend it to three easily [09:22] ajmitch_, VB ? [09:22] dang. I thought I would sleep this week ;-). [09:22] \sh: :-) [09:23] <\sh> dholbach: ETA? [09:23] Nafallo: we start next week :-) [09:23] ogra: that'll be fine.. === jbailey [~jbailey@dhcp802-2-37.dsl.ucc-net.ca] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:23] jeff! [09:23] it will all depend on us (and the guys doing it in main) [09:23] jbailey, to late === minghua is going to set up a breezy chroot this weekend [09:23] dholbach: oki :-) [09:23] jbailey, you already have the task :) [09:23] dholbach: only a couple of days of work :) [09:23] <\sh> Riddell: amu will help with the kde stuff? === mvo [~egon@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:24] ogra: Joy. What meeting is this? =) [09:24] \sh: dunno, better ask him [09:24] <\sh> ajmitch_: lucky one..u have a blade cluster somewhere? ,-) so we can use it for doing it all on one day ;) [09:24] as i see it, we have to thank http://bugs.debian.org/from:aj@andaco.de if we make it fast [09:24] jbailey: c++ transition motu briefing === Danten [~danten@h40n8c1o1049.bredband.skanova.com] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] [09:24] \sh: heh, I wish :) [09:24] jbailey, toolchain [09:24] <\sh> Riddell: ok..i'm on the kde site of the fun :) [09:25] jbailey, ... which includes java as well.... [09:25] Ah, lovely. =) [09:25] dholbach: sure. each person sends one mail right? ;-) [09:25] \sh: woo [09:25] Nafallo: :-) [09:25] jbailey, so youre our designated java guru now.... [09:25] Luvly. [09:25] <\sh> Riddell: have to talk to you anyways :) later ;) [09:25] :) [09:26] <\sh> ok starting time tuesday cero hundred hours [09:27] :) === chmj write an email to aj@andaco.de about the 32 patches he already used [09:27] ok... if there are no more questions (thanks doko for your documentation), this will be the fastest meeting ever [09:27] yay! :) [09:27] ;) [09:27] it's the 4th or 5th meeting this week? :) [09:27] <\sh> ay [09:28] cannot the work begin now and only after g++4.0 is in things compiled? [09:28] <\sh> one question more... [09:28] people can start downloading now :) [09:28] doko: we seem to want to start earlier [09:28] <\sh> how accurate must the source compile? warnings ok? [09:28] jani, sure... [09:28] dholbach: I guess after tuesday, there will be tons of questions ;) [09:28] siretart: sure :-) [09:29] \sh: same rules as always apply :-) === chmj having ubuntu withdrawal symptoms [09:29] <\sh> dholbach: so...it has to work only ;) [09:29] test packages at: deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/GCC-4.0/i386 ./ [09:29] dholbach: we have to freeze the archive first [09:29] chmj: you're away from you ubuntu box? [09:30] is ubuntu bugzilla controllable from mail? === ajmitch_ will have to queue his other packages to upload until it's unforzen [09:30] ajmitch_, I'm on do$e XP :-( [09:30] ouch :( [09:30] doko, but nothing stops people to pull down their favorites already ;) [09:30] doko: test packages? [09:30] no, but no upload yet ... [09:30] doko, gcc-4.0 test packages ? [09:30] dholbach: to make 4.0 the default [09:30] ogra: my cronjobs are running ;-) [09:31] alright [09:31] <\sh> i should delete my 80gig hd on my rootserver...and prepare a breezy chroot ;) [09:31] ogra: hmm, don't take it as I volunteer to do all the work myself though :-P [09:31] doko: surely breezy is breakable [09:31] doko: eg. dont' have to freeze [09:31] Nafallo, oh, no ?? === ajmitch_ will start downloading now, a few packages might be here by next week :) [09:32] Nafallo, i thought so.. [09:32] :) [09:32] <\sh> ajmitch_: 2400baud? ;) [09:32] \sh, .nz [09:32] \sh: almost [09:32] sladen: we'll freeze all _applications_ depending on any libstdc++ dependent library [09:32] :-) [09:32] <\sh> ajmitch_: oh sh***** [09:33] alright... if nobody complains, we can close this meeting, ok? [09:33] yep [09:33] yep [09:33] <\sh> aye [09:33] yes [09:33] <\sh> #ubutntu-transition? === ajmitch_ wants to go back to sleep :) === ogra looks forward to have a 30min break before his next meeting [09:33] ajmitch_: *s* [09:33] \sh: good idea! [09:33] \sh: not *another* channel! [09:33] thanks everyone, i look forward to the UniverseCxxFixing! :-) === ogra collects is coffeepot, milk sugar and the cups [09:34] \sh: #ubuntu-toolchain [09:34] <\sh> dholbach: sorry..yeah :) [09:34] doko: Now I've read the CxxLibraryList page, so if I'm sure a binary package only contains loadable module, no name changes are necessary, correct? === \sh [~shermann@server3.servereyes.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Konversation] [09:35] minghua: yes, please add a comment ("loadable module only") to the list, I'll remove it then [09:35] ogra, is there a next meeting in 30 minutes? [09:36] jani, for me, yes [09:36] doko: got it, thanks [09:36] ogra, ok I though on #u-m === Nafallo [~nafallo@nafallo.user] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:37] what was that deb URL doko had again? ;-) [09:38] test packages at: deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/GCC-4.0/i386 ./ [09:38] ahha, only i386. thanx anyway :-P. [09:39] Nafallo: be patient ... [09:39] heh [09:39] doko: oki :-) [09:44] night all [09:44] bye chmj, sleep tight [09:45] :-) === chmj [~charles@wbs-196-46-69-187.wbs.co.za] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === minghua [~minghua@danube.mems.rice.edu] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] === siretart [siretart@tauware.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] [09:49] brb === seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-30-146.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["I] === jani [~pet@Home03207.cluj.astral.ro] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-30-146.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === zul [~chuck@CPE0006258ec6c2-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Lovechild [~dnielsen@Lovechild.love-sources] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === \sh [~shermann@server3.servereyes.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Lovechild [~dnielsen@Lovechild.love-sources] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] === \sh [~shermann@server3.servereyes.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Konversation] === Amaranth [~travis@amaranth.user] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:08] doh, i missed another one [10:08] oh don't worry, plenty of meetings to go around === mdz [~mdz@ca-studio-bsr1o-251.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Amaranth [~travis@amaranth.user] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["If] === kiko [~kiko@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:10] seems to be unused at the moment [10:10] right [10:10] okay === jvw [jeroen@220pc220.sshunet.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:10] ok [10:10] should we poke luis in? [10:10] mdz, yep, we just finished :) [10:10] ogra, how familiar are you with bugzilla? [10:10] and bug triage in general? [10:10] kiko, i use it regulary === luis_ [~louie@c-24-61-44-31.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:10] neat [10:11] me too [10:11] cool [10:11] (has this meeting an agenda?) [10:11] kiko, i'm capable to track bugs... and to fix thm i guess [10:11] essentially, we'd like to start a community QA process on our bugzilla [10:11] bugzilla ? or malone ? [10:11] there are a couple of problems we are facing [10:11] bugzilla for now. [10:11] jvw: essentially, we'd like to start a community QA process on our bugzilla [10:11] oh [10:11] this is short-term stuff [10:12] ok [10:12] the idea is to involve a much larger group of people in helping out with bugs === \sh [~shermann@server3.servereyes.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:12] as the MOTU === Amaranth [~travis@amaranth.user] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:13] first, UNCONFIRMED reports are going upwards (since we introduced them a while back) [10:13] https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/report.cgi?x_axis_field=bug_status&y_axis_field=product&z_axis_field=&query_format=report-table&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&product=Ubuntu&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&resolution=DUPLICATE&resolution=---&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=substring&email1 [10:13] =&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailqa_contact2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&format=table&action=wrap&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0= [10:13] darn. [10:13] one sec. [10:13] anyway, as I was saying, we'd like to get more people involved in triaging bugs, with the goal of: [10:14] - reducing the number of UNCONFIRMED (marking stuff as resolved, upstream, needinfo, etc) [10:14] - identifying low-hanging fruit as good community contributions [10:14] kiko: your link would be http://tinyurl.com/da494 if you wanted us to have a look [10:15] - weeding out the tough issues and bringing them to the lead developer's attentions when necessary [10:15] thanks [10:15] (it's password-protected :( ) [10:15] it's clear from a report on resolution that a huge number of the bugs that we receive don't actually require any developer action [10:15] jvw: you have to log in [10:15] kiko, so like a first, second and third level suppport... [10:16] staging... [10:16] ogra, well, to start off with, community first-level, us second-level. but yes. [10:16] of 7397 resolved bugs, only 3621 were resolved FIXED. most of the rest ended up being INVALID, NOTABUG, NOTWARTY and WORKSFORME [10:16] i like the LOWHANGINGFRUIT idea [10:16] and UNIVERSE :-) [10:16] dholbach, I do too, just don't ask me to add a status for it :) [10:16] yes, and UNIVERSE [10:16] so if we can get the community involved in walking over the UNCONFIRMED bugs [10:16] mdz, dholbach: we can probably use keywords there. [10:16] 3944 bugs, how come than we have #10000 ? [10:16] and clearing away the chaff [10:16] then the development team can focus on real bugs [10:16] right. [10:16] which should move to NEW [10:17] mdz, you got mail, did you see that? [10:17] i want to start a GNOME team with seb128 and have bug triaging in the manifest [10:17] kiko: no, no mail yet [10:17] mdz, ogra: so my proposal is that we start by doing weekly bugdays on #ubuntu and #ubuntu-devel [10:17] and we need a mailing list for the bugs [10:17] mdz, May 11 16:58:35 anthem sm-mta[26967] : j4BJwQxn026965: to=, ctladdr= (5107/1004), delay=00:00:08, xdelay=00:00:08, mailer=relay, pri=120323, relay=frodo.hserus.net. [204.74.68.40] , dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (OK id=1DVxLl-000EMv-HR) [10:17] kiko, sounds great [10:17] seb128: exactly, like ubuntu-gnome-bugs@ [10:18] a bugday is a publicized event that invites community people to trawl through bugzilla [10:18] kiko: Subject: ? [10:18] like louis does them [10:18] ogra, dholbach: we can give away selected merchandise every week to the top resolver. === seb128 wants merchandises :p [10:18] yay, thats great [10:19] sounds awesome [10:19] probably top /new/ resolver [10:19] :( [10:19] luis_: you mean UNCONFIRMED, right? [10:19] you'll get some addictive types who will close hundreds every week :) [10:19] luis_, well, the criteria would need to be specified better. this is my proposal. [10:19] mdz: I mean, in terms of giving out goodies, you'd want to make sure it doesn't go to the same guy every week [10:19] seb128, find some straw MOTUs for that ;) [10:19] luis_: oh [10:19] luis_: don't look at me while saying that :) [10:19] sure, I'm just nitpicking, sorry, I'll go back to lurking- you guys seem to so far be saying things very similar to what I'd be saying :) [10:20] luis_: if someone wanst to consistently work hard on bugs, shouldn't we encourage that? [10:20] mdz: oh, you should [10:20] we should [10:20] i think we shouldnt focus on the merchandise :-) [10:20] right [10:20] don't rathole, I can email you my more detailed rationale later [10:20] s/don't/we shouldn't/ [10:20] giving rewards is the _worst_ thing you can do [10:20] dholbach, we should, its encouraging [10:21] #ubuntu-love started as such a project, but is horribly unmaintained [10:21] oh wow, my bogofilter is all out of whack === jdthood [~jdthood@aglu.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:21] fix this bug to get a t-shirt [10:21] ogra: not in the meeting atm [10:21] you'll get lots of people to try a little or try once but if they don't win they won't do it again [10:21] i like the idea though [10:21] we need a http://bugzilla.gnome.org/reports/weekly-bug-summary.html like [10:21] <\sh> well...after dealing with gentoos bug-wranglers, it sounds really great to encourage community work. but who will check the results? [10:21] and if they do win they'll want another reward to do it again [10:21] Amaranth, that's not my experience. [10:22] seb128: looks great [10:22] \sh, if we have 1st 2nd and 3rd level, that would be the next higher level who has to check [10:22] dholbach: I like this stuff, and that's sane emulation :) [10:22] mdz, something like "no more mr. nice guy" === Amaranth spots seb128 as #2 bug reporter [10:23] *cough* [10:23] do we want to use UbuntuLove for all this? [10:23] <\sh> ogra: so you mean, 1st level (the lowest community level) will resolve a bug (or he thinks he does), 2nd level check the patch or workaround, and 3rd level will approve? [10:23] ubuntuLove? [10:23] dholbach: I don't think so [10:23] the idea behind it was similar to GnomeLove [10:23] \sh, nope, in this case 2nd should approve too [10:24] mailing lists, irc channel and gnome-love-days to gather all the willing folks together [10:24] \sh, keep away as much as you can from 1st [10:24] dholbach: if we have people to handle both event, I would keep separete ones [10:24] the problem is: we have no people [10:24] \sh, at least that was my directive at ish GmbH in the testbed, worked quite well [10:25] #ubuntu-love is in lurking mode and there was only one day yet [10:25] ogra, dholbach: so plan of action would be: 0) accept the task of running these bugdays a) decide on weekly bugday b) write up the announcement c) decide where to post the announcement d) decide on criteria/if for prizes [10:25] perhaps also decide what sort of guidance we want to give people [10:25] basically [10:25] kiko, ok, no problem [10:25] we want newbies to look at unconfirmed [10:25] get a little bugbot IRC bot [10:25] <\sh> ogra: well...u see right now, that @NOC ;) it is not working..2nd level has to deal with 1st level support, just because the tools are not ready :( [10:25] dunno if that's the same topic, be we need some mailing list for bug specific to teams (gnome-bugs, xfce-bugs, ...) [10:26] \sh, i talked about the depatment i led ;) not the NOC [10:26] seb128, it's not. [10:26] <\sh> ogra: i'm talking about the real world ,-) [10:26] kiko: k [10:26] ogra, when do you want to do them? [10:26] \sh, its a thing of the rikght organization [10:26] <\sh> ogra: lets find a solution for ubuntu and forget about ish ;) [10:27] weekly sounds good to me [10:27] dholbach, ogra: on what day? [10:27] although we have to have people around which will guide them [10:27] s/although// [10:27] yeah. [10:27] kiko, hmm... a fixed date in the week... dunno, i'll check at #ubuntu-motu to make sure to have some 2nd level people around [10:27] <\sh> saturday to sunday night ;) always good [10:27] not a weekday? [10:27] \sh, weekdays please [10:28] we want to have full-timezone-coverage :-) === ogra tends to wednesday... [10:28] fine with me [10:28] a bugday should be 24h ;) [10:28] full timezone coverage is kinda crazy for the organizers. [10:28] ogra: sissy :-) [10:28] weekday? hum... [10:28] I don't think ogra and dholbach can manage the 24h [10:28] <\sh> and this is another matter ;) [10:28] is there anyone in .au to cover for you guys? [10:28] not easy to get people doing bug triage during their working time [10:29] kiko: MOTUs are in all the timezones :-) [10:29] .nz [10:29] kiko, .nz [10:29] who would that be? [10:29] ajmitch [10:29] ajmitch [10:29] does he know bugzilla? [10:29] i think so [10:29] okay [10:29] ah... he went to bed :-) [10:29] yep [10:29] ogra, dholbach: can you ping motu people, decide on a day and get back to me before friday so we can book a meeting to resolve the remaining issues? [10:30] to many meetings today :) [10:30] kiko: absolutely [10:30] this meeting would discuss specifics [10:30] kiko, sure [10:30] <\sh> did u already established teams for the diff. projects? [10:30] \sh? [10:30] \sh: not yet, it will be a long-term goal [10:30]