/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/05/19/#ubuntu-toolchain.txt

=== warthylog [~warthylog@port49.ds1-van.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-toolchain
=== Topic for #ubuntu-toolchain: GNU Compiler Collection, Glibc, Binutils, Linux-kernel-headers | GLIBC Todo: hppa, sparc NPTL, i386 biarch
=== Topic (#ubuntu-toolchain): set by jbailey at Wed May 11 01:20:59 2005
=== #ubuntu-toolchain [freenode-info] please register your nickname...don't forget to auto-identify! http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
(fabbione/#ubuntu-toolchain) 1 2 3.. test!07:50
fabbioneok logs to appear on the web within the next hour07:50
jbaileyfabbione: Thanks Fabio!07:51
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svenlhi all.07:51
fabbionenow.. you got the logs... FIX SPARC YOU WANKERS!07:52
fabbionegcc-3.4 is FTBFS07:52
fabbionel-k-h is teh SUX!07:52
jbaileyIs that "fix" like how I had my cat "fixed"?07:52
fabbionei have no idea about your cat....07:52
jbaileyfabbione: In N. America (possibly all of english) to have an animal "fixed" is to have it neutered.07:53
fabbioneno seriously.. if we start the transtion before sparc has even a toolchain i might as well consider dropping the port07:53
fabbioneoh... poor cat07:53
svenlwhy does gcc-4.0 depend on libcairo-dev ?07:54
fabbioneanyway i must run to cook dinner07:54
fabbionecya tomorrow07:54
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dholbachweren't we supposed to start 7 minutes ago? ;-)08:07
ogra6 here08:07
Riddellpoke doko 08:07
dokosvenl: libgcj08:08
svenldoko: oh.08:08
dokosvenl: you can drop it, it's not a hard dependency08:09
svenlbah, i just installed it.08:09
Riddellso doko, why have you called us all here?08:11
dokofabbione: you could just change gcc-defaults to have g77 -> g77-3.3, then g77-3.4 won't be touched.08:11
dokoheh, yes, let's start ...08:12
Riddelldo we have a version of gcc which includes this fix?  http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2097308:12
dokoyou are aware of https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/BreezyToolchainTransition ?08:12
ograyep08:13
dholbachme too, excellent work!08:13
dokook, we are converting all the library packages first08:13
dholbachany specific order? dependency-wise?08:14
dokofor a better view, see https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CxxLibraryList08:14
dokodholbach: heh, good question, answer is in the wiki:  Wait until all of your dependencies have been uploaded in c2 versions, and rebuilt on all architectures.08:15
dholbachso we will rely on dep-wait?08:16
dholbachor will elmo "freeze" every *c2 package until we are finished?08:17
dokonew lib packages cannot enter the archive, if there's already an 'ubuntu' package.08:18
dokowe will freeze all the application packages ...08:18
dokoRiddell: yes08:19
dholbachcould you explain it with  libtest  libtestc2  and  program  test  which uses those? :-)08:19
Riddelldoko: in the archives now?08:19
dholbachi didnt quite get what will will happen08:20
dokoRiddell: of course08:20
Riddellexcellent08:20
dokodholbach: what didn't you get?08:20
ogradholbach, all apps that depend on a c++ lib will be rejected if i undestood it right08:20
ograuntil doko pulls the lever08:21
dokoogra: correct08:21
dholbachok, but installing for example  inkscape  won't work in the transition time, because libgtkmm*c2 is available but not libgtkmm*08:21
dholbachor didnt i understand it yet08:21
ogradholbach, yep, gtkmm apps will break for a while...08:22
dokodholbach: yes, that's correct, as you call it "Schmerz im Hintern"08:22
dholbachalright08:22
dholbachthe "new" libraries will be built and put in the archive still?08:22
dokodholbach: and all of KDE will break, that will be fun :-)08:22
ograyep08:22
dholbachalright... sounds good08:23
=== ogra pats his gnome
dholbachwhat guidelines can i pass for the packaging08:23
=== ogra comforts Riddell
Riddell"Some of them are handled specifically (mostly KDE)"  doko, what's handled specially about KDE?08:23
dokosome KDE packages are not renamed, even if they contain shared libs. we'll only rename qt and kdelibs08:25
Riddelldoko: why does kdelibs have to be renamed?08:25
Riddellit depends on qt too08:25
dokobut not every kde package depends on qt08:26
RiddellI'm yet to find any08:26
dokoRiddell: we discussed that in Sydney ... and found some IIRC08:26
Riddellnot I, amu said he found some, I'll see if he knows which08:27
Riddelldoko: how much is going to be done automatically and how much by hand?08:28
dokoRiddell: the library packages by hand, the application packages automatically. you have to make the call for the KDE packages, which are applications, and which are libraries ...08:29
dholbachok, so what guidelines can i pass for the packaging, what do i need to tell the guys explicitly? about 1) the libraries 2) the applications?08:30
dholbachwhat is the general attack plan for a MOTU? :-)08:30
dokodholbach: you should delegate packages to people, all other things should be mentioned in the wiki08:31
dholbachthey will pick08:32
dokoif not, then we should complete the docs ...08:32
dholbachi'll have to re-read the wiki then some dozen times to make sure i got everything08:32
ogradoko, will a rebuild and renaming be enough ? 08:32
dholbachwe need to change the build-dependencies08:33
ogradoko, or do we have to expect odditys08:33
dholbachand tell them to use a proper patching system08:33
ogra?08:33
dholbachand tighten the build-depends as well08:33
dokodholbach: yes, the new ones enter the archive immediately08:34
dokodholbach: no, please NO other changes in these uploads. we will use the bug reports to feed back exactly the transition changes to Debian08:35
Riddelldoko: how do I mark packages as libraries or applications?08:35
dokoogra: ICEs08:35
ograhmm... but thats nothing MOTU could fix... i mean compile issues we have to regard.... extra options, conflicting options, etc08:36
dholbachdoko: ok, need to read the wiki again08:36
dholbachi seem to not get it yet and as i will need to tell people a couple of times, i want to understand it thoroughly08:36
dokoRiddell: we did talk about it in UDU, didn't we? maybe we should meet again with amu08:37
dokodholbach: start with one package, and I can review it08:37
ogradholbach, dont worry, i think i understand it and i was around during the big transition in debian some time ago....08:37
ograso i know what to expect worst .... ;)08:37
dholbachlittle dumb dholbach will have to read it again08:38
Riddelldoko: don't think we need to meet again, just that it was amu not me who said there were packages that depended on kdelibs and not qt, I havn't found any08:38
dokoRiddell: in universe as well?08:39
Riddelldoko: dunno, is there an easy way to search?08:40
dokolamont: how does the hppa toolchain look, or don't you care at the moment?08:40
jbaileydoko: He's waiting on me for glibc love on hppa08:42
jbaileydoko: Should be early next week.  I just can't do that hacking on a single monitor system.  I'm hoping p'haps Sunday evening.08:42
dokoogra: for ICE's, a MOTU should extract the preprocessed source, add the command line, submit a bug report and put the bug report number in the comment field. then other people can continue08:42
ogradoko, would you mind to write some lines about how to do that on the wiki....08:43
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amumoin'08:44
dokoogra: it's just recompiling with -save-temps, compress and send the resultint '.i' or '.ii' file08:45
lamontdoko: what jbailey said08:45
ograwe have some very inexperienced guys in the MOTU wannabe league, so it sould be as easy as possible to "step in to help out" ;) 08:45
ogradoko, 08:45
ograok08:45
dokoogra: it's even ok, if somebody else does this, but we have to know about ...08:46
ograyep08:46
ograwe'll put a column on the wiki table for it...08:47
dholbachwe will keep the c2 suffix only until there's a new soname, right?08:47
dokojbailey: that should be ok08:47
dokodholbach: yes08:47
dokoso when do we start? Next Monday is bank holiday in Germany, and maybe somewhere else, so what about Tuesday?08:48
ograsounds good08:48
Riddellamu: do you know which packages depend on kdelibs but not qt?08:48
dholbachthis will mean that universe will start a week later, right?08:48
amumonday is fine :)08:48
ogradholbach, why ? 08:49
ogradholbach, anything we have to wait for ?08:49
dholbachbecause most universe-c++-libraries will depend on main-crack08:49
amuRiddell: all gnomepackages ? 08:49
amu;)08:49
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dholbachamu: on kdelibs?08:49
dokodholbach: no, universe at the same time, for those, that don't depend on libs in main08:50
ograhmm, i think there is a good bunch essential stuff in universe too...08:50
dokoamu: we talked about the necessity of renaming kdelibs4 ...08:50
chmjevening 08:51
lamontfabbione: btw, if you haven't already, please add this channel to the logbot08:51
dholbachlamont: he did: "<fabbione> now.. you got the logs... FIX SPARC YOU WANKERS!"08:52
=== ogra points at ubuntulog
lamonthehe08:52
=== dholbach pipes innocently
=== lamont make a note to finish waking up sometime today
Riddellhow about not renaming kdelibs4 and anything which is crazy enough to depend on kdelibs4 but not qt we just add a depend on qt08:53
dokoRiddell: doesn't work for existing apps08:55
Riddellhmm yes08:56
dholbachok, now i see it clearer08:56
dokoamu, Riddell: please be careful about that issue, so that we have a solution, which works for Debian as well. A difference here would be a major PITA08:56
Riddellso amu, where did you find packages that depend on kdelibs and not qt?08:56
amuRiddell: good question ... at least they if they will not depends against qt kdelibs depend it 08:58
dokoRiddell: you could search all dependencies of packages, which have kdelibs4, but not libqt3-mtc102 (or something like this)08:59
dholbachok.. the meetin in #u-meeting will start09:00
dholbachi well tell the crowd that the KDE solution is still worked on, ok?09:00
Riddelldholbach: what's happening in #ubuntu-meeting?09:01
dholbachthe briefing for the MOTU crew09:01
ograRiddell, you should be there for qt/kde09:01
Riddellah kde-i18n* depends on kdelibs but not qt09:03
dokoogra, dholbach: maybe just discuss the universe topics here as well, or point people here for questions09:04
dholbachyes09:04
ograyep09:04
Riddellgrep-available -Fdepends kdelibs4 --and --not -Fdepends libqt309:15
Riddelllooks to be quite a few, guess we will have to rename kdelibs409:15
Riddellthe question is are there other kde libraries which are also depended upon without qt09:16
dokojbailey: just decided that you will be pestered about java specific things by the motu's09:18
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svenldoko: can i have your tentative gcc ppc64 biarch packages or something ? 09:40
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=== lamont glares at cdbs, fix0rs it
lamontq09:50
dokosvenl: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbailey/glibc10:17
dokosvenl: http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/gcc-powerpc10:18
svenldoko, the gcc will work on ppc32 too ? 10:19
dokosvenl: heh, I never tried on ppc64 ...10:19
svenldoko: the above gcc packages, they are using the headers from suse as the older ones, or the real thing ?10:21
svenldoko: and you didn't provide the source packages.10:21
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dokosvenl: these are built with jbailey's packages10:22
svenlok.10:22
dokosource: apt-get gcc-3.410:22
dokoand edit debian/rules.defs10:22
svenldoko: no magic config option, apart from jbaileys ackages installed ? 10:22
svenlah, ok.10:22
svenldoko: i could then try building a biarch gcc-4.0 with those ? 10:23
dokoyes, you can try, sure10:23
svenl:)10:24
svenlany chance of it actually working ?10:24
dokoI didn't try yet ... run the testsuite ;-P10:25
svenldoko: so, by installing all of the above, i should be able to create ppc64 executables, and also to build ppc64 kernels, right ? 10:26
svenldoko: oh usable are the above on a debian system ?10:26
dokosvenl: I didn't test ... what about if you install them in a chroot? it shouldn't matter for a kernel build10:27
svenlbah, the packages need a newer version of linux-kernel-headers than the one in breezy.10:27
svenldoko: well.10:27
svenldoko: am runnin in a breezy chroot on a hoary powerbook right now.10:27
dokosven: please ask jbailey about l-k-h10:27
svenli found them10:28
svenlmmm, maybe.10:29
svenldamn.10:29
svenljbailey: please ping me when you come back.10:29
svenljbailey: your glibc is forced to use a l-k-h which is older than the one in breezy :/10:30
svenlls10:42
svenldoko: your gcc won do, it is too old for either the glibc currently in breezy or jbailey packages.10:42
jbaileysvenl: Ooh, that might be the one I had the typo in, sorry.11:03
jbaileydoko: The gcc you gave me before for building glibc on ppc64 worked fine for my testcases.11:03
=== lamont waits to be told "go" on the bootstrapping process...
jbaileylamont: Working on it, still (again).  elmo and I got rt up and running this morning.11:34
lamontjbailey: cool11:34
jbaileyWow, ncftp isn't in main.11:49
lamontjbailey: you really want to support that???11:59
lamontISTR vomiting the last time I was hacking on that.11:59

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