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=== Topic for #ubuntu-toolchain: GNU Compiler Collection, Glibc, Binutils, Linux-kernel-headers | GLIBC Todo: hppa, sparc NPTL, i386 biarch | ||
=== Topic (#ubuntu-toolchain): set by jbailey at Wed May 11 01:20:59 2005 | ||
=== #ubuntu-toolchain [freenode-info] please register your nickname...don't forget to auto-identify! http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup | ||
(fabbione/#ubuntu-toolchain) 1 2 3.. test! | 07:50 | |
fabbione | ok logs to appear on the web within the next hour | 07:50 |
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jbailey | fabbione: Thanks Fabio! | 07:51 |
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svenl | hi all. | 07:51 |
fabbione | now.. you got the logs... FIX SPARC YOU WANKERS! | 07:52 |
fabbione | gcc-3.4 is FTBFS | 07:52 |
fabbione | l-k-h is teh SUX! | 07:52 |
jbailey | Is that "fix" like how I had my cat "fixed"? | 07:52 |
fabbione | i have no idea about your cat.... | 07:52 |
jbailey | fabbione: In N. America (possibly all of english) to have an animal "fixed" is to have it neutered. | 07:53 |
fabbione | no seriously.. if we start the transtion before sparc has even a toolchain i might as well consider dropping the port | 07:53 |
fabbione | oh... poor cat | 07:53 |
svenl | why does gcc-4.0 depend on libcairo-dev ? | 07:54 |
fabbione | anyway i must run to cook dinner | 07:54 |
fabbione | cya tomorrow | 07:54 |
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dholbach | weren't we supposed to start 7 minutes ago? ;-) | 08:07 |
ogra | 6 here | 08:07 |
Riddell | poke doko | 08:07 |
doko | svenl: libgcj | 08:08 |
svenl | doko: oh. | 08:08 |
doko | svenl: you can drop it, it's not a hard dependency | 08:09 |
svenl | bah, i just installed it. | 08:09 |
Riddell | so doko, why have you called us all here? | 08:11 |
doko | fabbione: you could just change gcc-defaults to have g77 -> g77-3.3, then g77-3.4 won't be touched. | 08:11 |
doko | heh, yes, let's start ... | 08:12 |
Riddell | do we have a version of gcc which includes this fix? http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=20973 | 08:12 |
doko | you are aware of https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/BreezyToolchainTransition ? | 08:12 |
ogra | yep | 08:13 |
dholbach | me too, excellent work! | 08:13 |
doko | ok, we are converting all the library packages first | 08:13 |
dholbach | any specific order? dependency-wise? | 08:14 |
doko | for a better view, see https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CxxLibraryList | 08:14 |
doko | dholbach: heh, good question, answer is in the wiki: Wait until all of your dependencies have been uploaded in c2 versions, and rebuilt on all architectures. | 08:15 |
dholbach | so we will rely on dep-wait? | 08:16 |
dholbach | or will elmo "freeze" every *c2 package until we are finished? | 08:17 |
doko | new lib packages cannot enter the archive, if there's already an 'ubuntu' package. | 08:18 |
doko | we will freeze all the application packages ... | 08:18 |
doko | Riddell: yes | 08:19 |
dholbach | could you explain it with libtest libtestc2 and program test which uses those? :-) | 08:19 |
Riddell | doko: in the archives now? | 08:19 |
dholbach | i didnt quite get what will will happen | 08:20 |
doko | Riddell: of course | 08:20 |
Riddell | excellent | 08:20 |
doko | dholbach: what didn't you get? | 08:20 |
ogra | dholbach, all apps that depend on a c++ lib will be rejected if i undestood it right | 08:20 |
ogra | until doko pulls the lever | 08:21 |
doko | ogra: correct | 08:21 |
dholbach | ok, but installing for example inkscape won't work in the transition time, because libgtkmm*c2 is available but not libgtkmm* | 08:21 |
dholbach | or didnt i understand it yet | 08:21 |
ogra | dholbach, yep, gtkmm apps will break for a while... | 08:22 |
doko | dholbach: yes, that's correct, as you call it "Schmerz im Hintern" | 08:22 |
dholbach | alright | 08:22 |
dholbach | the "new" libraries will be built and put in the archive still? | 08:22 |
doko | dholbach: and all of KDE will break, that will be fun :-) | 08:22 |
ogra | yep | 08:22 |
dholbach | alright... sounds good | 08:23 |
=== ogra pats his gnome | ||
dholbach | what guidelines can i pass for the packaging | 08:23 |
=== ogra comforts Riddell | ||
Riddell | "Some of them are handled specifically (mostly KDE)" doko, what's handled specially about KDE? | 08:23 |
doko | some KDE packages are not renamed, even if they contain shared libs. we'll only rename qt and kdelibs | 08:25 |
Riddell | doko: why does kdelibs have to be renamed? | 08:25 |
Riddell | it depends on qt too | 08:25 |
doko | but not every kde package depends on qt | 08:26 |
Riddell | I'm yet to find any | 08:26 |
doko | Riddell: we discussed that in Sydney ... and found some IIRC | 08:26 |
Riddell | not I, amu said he found some, I'll see if he knows which | 08:27 |
Riddell | doko: how much is going to be done automatically and how much by hand? | 08:28 |
doko | Riddell: the library packages by hand, the application packages automatically. you have to make the call for the KDE packages, which are applications, and which are libraries ... | 08:29 |
dholbach | ok, so what guidelines can i pass for the packaging, what do i need to tell the guys explicitly? about 1) the libraries 2) the applications? | 08:30 |
dholbach | what is the general attack plan for a MOTU? :-) | 08:30 |
doko | dholbach: you should delegate packages to people, all other things should be mentioned in the wiki | 08:31 |
dholbach | they will pick | 08:32 |
doko | if not, then we should complete the docs ... | 08:32 |
dholbach | i'll have to re-read the wiki then some dozen times to make sure i got everything | 08:32 |
ogra | doko, will a rebuild and renaming be enough ? | 08:32 |
dholbach | we need to change the build-dependencies | 08:33 |
ogra | doko, or do we have to expect odditys | 08:33 |
dholbach | and tell them to use a proper patching system | 08:33 |
ogra | ? | 08:33 |
dholbach | and tighten the build-depends as well | 08:33 |
doko | dholbach: yes, the new ones enter the archive immediately | 08:34 |
doko | dholbach: no, please NO other changes in these uploads. we will use the bug reports to feed back exactly the transition changes to Debian | 08:35 |
Riddell | doko: how do I mark packages as libraries or applications? | 08:35 |
doko | ogra: ICEs | 08:35 |
ogra | hmm... but thats nothing MOTU could fix... i mean compile issues we have to regard.... extra options, conflicting options, etc | 08:36 |
dholbach | doko: ok, need to read the wiki again | 08:36 |
dholbach | i seem to not get it yet and as i will need to tell people a couple of times, i want to understand it thoroughly | 08:36 |
doko | Riddell: we did talk about it in UDU, didn't we? maybe we should meet again with amu | 08:37 |
doko | dholbach: start with one package, and I can review it | 08:37 |
ogra | dholbach, dont worry, i think i understand it and i was around during the big transition in debian some time ago.... | 08:37 |
ogra | so i know what to expect worst .... ;) | 08:37 |
dholbach | little dumb dholbach will have to read it again | 08:38 |
Riddell | doko: don't think we need to meet again, just that it was amu not me who said there were packages that depended on kdelibs and not qt, I havn't found any | 08:38 |
doko | Riddell: in universe as well? | 08:39 |
Riddell | doko: dunno, is there an easy way to search? | 08:40 |
doko | lamont: how does the hppa toolchain look, or don't you care at the moment? | 08:40 |
jbailey | doko: He's waiting on me for glibc love on hppa | 08:42 |
jbailey | doko: Should be early next week. I just can't do that hacking on a single monitor system. I'm hoping p'haps Sunday evening. | 08:42 |
doko | ogra: for ICE's, a MOTU should extract the preprocessed source, add the command line, submit a bug report and put the bug report number in the comment field. then other people can continue | 08:42 |
ogra | doko, would you mind to write some lines about how to do that on the wiki.... | 08:43 |
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amu | moin' | 08:44 |
doko | ogra: it's just recompiling with -save-temps, compress and send the resultint '.i' or '.ii' file | 08:45 |
lamont | doko: what jbailey said | 08:45 |
ogra | we have some very inexperienced guys in the MOTU wannabe league, so it sould be as easy as possible to "step in to help out" ;) | 08:45 |
ogra | doko, | 08:45 |
ogra | ok | 08:45 |
doko | ogra: it's even ok, if somebody else does this, but we have to know about ... | 08:46 |
ogra | yep | 08:46 |
ogra | we'll put a column on the wiki table for it... | 08:47 |
dholbach | we will keep the c2 suffix only until there's a new soname, right? | 08:47 |
doko | jbailey: that should be ok | 08:47 |
doko | dholbach: yes | 08:47 |
doko | so when do we start? Next Monday is bank holiday in Germany, and maybe somewhere else, so what about Tuesday? | 08:48 |
ogra | sounds good | 08:48 |
Riddell | amu: do you know which packages depend on kdelibs but not qt? | 08:48 |
dholbach | this will mean that universe will start a week later, right? | 08:48 |
amu | monday is fine :) | 08:48 |
ogra | dholbach, why ? | 08:49 |
ogra | dholbach, anything we have to wait for ? | 08:49 |
dholbach | because most universe-c++-libraries will depend on main-crack | 08:49 |
amu | Riddell: all gnomepackages ? | 08:49 |
amu | ;) | 08:49 |
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dholbach | amu: on kdelibs? | 08:49 |
doko | dholbach: no, universe at the same time, for those, that don't depend on libs in main | 08:50 |
ogra | hmm, i think there is a good bunch essential stuff in universe too... | 08:50 |
doko | amu: we talked about the necessity of renaming kdelibs4 ... | 08:50 |
chmj | evening | 08:51 |
lamont | fabbione: btw, if you haven't already, please add this channel to the logbot | 08:51 |
dholbach | lamont: he did: "<fabbione> now.. you got the logs... FIX SPARC YOU WANKERS!" | 08:52 |
=== ogra points at ubuntulog | ||
lamont | hehe | 08:52 |
=== dholbach pipes innocently | ||
=== lamont make a note to finish waking up sometime today | ||
Riddell | how about not renaming kdelibs4 and anything which is crazy enough to depend on kdelibs4 but not qt we just add a depend on qt | 08:53 |
doko | Riddell: doesn't work for existing apps | 08:55 |
Riddell | hmm yes | 08:56 |
dholbach | ok, now i see it clearer | 08:56 |
doko | amu, Riddell: please be careful about that issue, so that we have a solution, which works for Debian as well. A difference here would be a major PITA | 08:56 |
Riddell | so amu, where did you find packages that depend on kdelibs and not qt? | 08:56 |
amu | Riddell: good question ... at least they if they will not depends against qt kdelibs depend it | 08:58 |
doko | Riddell: you could search all dependencies of packages, which have kdelibs4, but not libqt3-mtc102 (or something like this) | 08:59 |
dholbach | ok.. the meetin in #u-meeting will start | 09:00 |
dholbach | i well tell the crowd that the KDE solution is still worked on, ok? | 09:00 |
Riddell | dholbach: what's happening in #ubuntu-meeting? | 09:01 |
dholbach | the briefing for the MOTU crew | 09:01 |
ogra | Riddell, you should be there for qt/kde | 09:01 |
Riddell | ah kde-i18n* depends on kdelibs but not qt | 09:03 |
doko | ogra, dholbach: maybe just discuss the universe topics here as well, or point people here for questions | 09:04 |
dholbach | yes | 09:04 |
ogra | yep | 09:04 |
Riddell | grep-available -Fdepends kdelibs4 --and --not -Fdepends libqt3 | 09:15 |
Riddell | looks to be quite a few, guess we will have to rename kdelibs4 | 09:15 |
Riddell | the question is are there other kde libraries which are also depended upon without qt | 09:16 |
doko | jbailey: just decided that you will be pestered about java specific things by the motu's | 09:18 |
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svenl | doko: can i have your tentative gcc ppc64 biarch packages or something ? | 09:40 |
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=== lamont glares at cdbs, fix0rs it | ||
lamont | q | 09:50 |
doko | svenl: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbailey/glibc | 10:17 |
doko | svenl: http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/gcc-powerpc | 10:18 |
svenl | doko, the gcc will work on ppc32 too ? | 10:19 |
doko | svenl: heh, I never tried on ppc64 ... | 10:19 |
svenl | doko: the above gcc packages, they are using the headers from suse as the older ones, or the real thing ? | 10:21 |
svenl | doko: and you didn't provide the source packages. | 10:21 |
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doko | svenl: these are built with jbailey's packages | 10:22 |
svenl | ok. | 10:22 |
doko | source: apt-get gcc-3.4 | 10:22 |
doko | and edit debian/rules.defs | 10:22 |
svenl | doko: no magic config option, apart from jbaileys ackages installed ? | 10:22 |
svenl | ah, ok. | 10:22 |
svenl | doko: i could then try building a biarch gcc-4.0 with those ? | 10:23 |
doko | yes, you can try, sure | 10:23 |
svenl | :) | 10:24 |
svenl | any chance of it actually working ? | 10:24 |
doko | I didn't try yet ... run the testsuite ;-P | 10:25 |
svenl | doko: so, by installing all of the above, i should be able to create ppc64 executables, and also to build ppc64 kernels, right ? | 10:26 |
svenl | doko: oh usable are the above on a debian system ? | 10:26 |
doko | svenl: I didn't test ... what about if you install them in a chroot? it shouldn't matter for a kernel build | 10:27 |
svenl | bah, the packages need a newer version of linux-kernel-headers than the one in breezy. | 10:27 |
svenl | doko: well. | 10:27 |
svenl | doko: am runnin in a breezy chroot on a hoary powerbook right now. | 10:27 |
doko | sven: please ask jbailey about l-k-h | 10:27 |
svenl | i found them | 10:28 |
svenl | mmm, maybe. | 10:29 |
svenl | damn. | 10:29 |
svenl | jbailey: please ping me when you come back. | 10:29 |
svenl | jbailey: your glibc is forced to use a l-k-h which is older than the one in breezy :/ | 10:30 |
svenl | ls | 10:42 |
svenl | doko: your gcc won do, it is too old for either the glibc currently in breezy or jbailey packages. | 10:42 |
jbailey | svenl: Ooh, that might be the one I had the typo in, sorry. | 11:03 |
jbailey | doko: The gcc you gave me before for building glibc on ppc64 worked fine for my testcases. | 11:03 |
=== lamont waits to be told "go" on the bootstrapping process... | ||
jbailey | lamont: Working on it, still (again). elmo and I got rt up and running this morning. | 11:34 |
lamont | jbailey: cool | 11:34 |
jbailey | Wow, ncftp isn't in main. | 11:49 |
lamont | jbailey: you really want to support that??? | 11:59 |
lamont | ISTR vomiting the last time I was hacking on that. | 11:59 |
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