[08:11] <doko> morning
[08:18] <doko> amu, haggai, Riddell: will you recompile KDE using -fvisibility?
[08:58] <hunger> Any chance of finding somebody willing to rebuild and upload a kdebase?
[09:42] <Jd101> will kubuntu get update to kde 3.4.x bug fix releases?
[09:44] <Jd101> anybody knows if kubuntu will get kde 3.4.x bug fix releases? ( kde 3.4.1 , kde 3.4.2 ...)
[09:51] <Riddell> Jd101: should do yes
[09:52] <Riddell> doko: we probably should yes?
[09:52] <Jd101> Riddell: thank you. I was hoping so. since they will be bug fixes and not new features.
[09:56] <Jd101> Riddell: in #kde ,  someone said kde 3.4.1 will branch before the end on this month. imo, kde 3.4.0 was released by kde.org too hastily so I would be happy for a kde 3.4.1 bug fix relase
[10:07] <amu> moin
[10:08] <amu> Riddell: 3.4.1 has such a option ? ( -fvisibility=hidden )   
[10:14] <Riddell> amu: I think so
[10:16] <amu> as i understood, the deb are bit smaller, and only those, which use a lot of inline funktions ... right? 
[10:23] <Riddell> and faster to load
[10:25] <amu> rocks, now i can get it faster crashed *meducks* 
[10:43] <JRe> is there a kat package for kubuntu?
[10:44] <Riddell> JRe: nope
[10:44] <Riddell> but I think they have a debian package, you could see if it compiles
[10:45] <JRe> Riddell: yeah
[10:50] <JRe> Riddell: it's  an unofficial package btw
[10:52] <Riddell> see if you can improve it with your new elite packaging skills :)
[10:52] <Riddell> http://www.tuxmagazine.com/node/1000130 "The Kubuntu Distribution"
[11:24] <amu> Riddell: cool
[12:16] <hunger> Looks like I have to rebuild kdebase myself:-(
[12:18] <KaiL_> you want support for new dbus/hal?
[12:19] <hunger> KaiL_: Basically I want a up to date breezy. I do not care about dbus/hal specifically.
[12:20] <KaiL_> maybe Riddell  is already woring on it?
[12:20] <KaiL_> +k
[12:21] <hunger> KaiL_: He wanted to wait for the gcc transition and/or kde 3.4.1.
[12:21] <KaiL_> I love breezy - updates every few hours :)
[12:21] <hunger> KaiL_: So do I:-)
[12:21] <KaiL_> bah
[12:21] <KaiL_> he waits to much
[12:22] <hunger> KaiL_: But that does not help if they are blocked by sensible maintainers that do not want to waste their precious time on updatejunkies like us.
[12:22] <KaiL_> apt-cache rdepends dbus-1 ...long list...
[12:33] <KaiL_> maybe there's more than just a recompile needed
[12:44] <hunger> KaiL_: Somebody started to rebuild kdebase yesterday... Too bad he is not around to report his findings.
[01:04] <JRe> allee: Wow i have made a package using the cdbs patch utilities it's impressive!
[01:05] <JRe> A kat package for kubuntu is comming ;) !
[01:05] <KaiL_> kat uploaded?
[01:05] <JRe> yes
[01:05] <JRe> 0.5.1
[01:05] <JRe> it works man i need to edit a manpage :( the copryght :(
[01:06] <JRe> it works BUT
[01:06] <JRe> allee: automatic control management is very good too ;)
[01:12] <hunger> JRe: Where is the kat deb? Can I test it?
[01:13] <JRe> hunger: Kat is a file indexer for Kde
[01:13] <JRe> hunger: i polish the package and give it to you!
[01:13] <JRe> hunger: take a look here http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=22135
[01:14] <hunger> JRe: I know what it is, that is why I am asking where I can get it:-)
[01:16] <JRe> hunger: you want that i put a test version just right now are you prefere waiting to the copyright file to be written?
[01:17] <hunger> JRe: I am just volunteering to test whenever you are ready.
[01:18] <JRe> hunger: okay i will notify you in few hours ;)
[01:18] <hunger> JRe: I'll use whatever you think worth testing.
[01:44] <doko> amu, Riddell, haggai: please no new qt-x11-free upload until Monday
[01:45] <Riddell> doko: ok
[01:49] <doko> amu: I have the 3.3 already converted ... *slap*
[01:57] <amu> doko: do you have a buildlog? 
[02:00] <doko> not yet
[02:01] <doko> amu: something wrong?
[02:11] <amu> doko: nope, just interessting
[02:12] <doko> uploading packages to chinstrap:~doko/cxxbin/
[02:13] <KaiL_> Riddell: now it's going to get even more funny with breezy
[02:14] <Riddell> KaiL_: what is?
[02:14] <KaiL_> apt-get now wants to remove kdebase-kio-plugins and everything depending on it
[02:28] <amu> KaiL_: wait for the new qtlibs :) that's real fun *eg* 
[02:29] <hunger> amu: You bastards are breaking my box. ;-)
[02:29] <hunger> amu: Man, this is the fun of using a development distri!
[02:30] <KaiL_> that's why I have my K6-2
[02:30] <KaiL_> at least one box, which doesn't break ;)
[02:31] <hunger> Fun and excitement whenever upgrading something, the challenge of comming up with excuses whenever your boss needs you to do something:-)
[02:32] <hunger> KaiL_: I can always roll back the upgrades... no need to have a old box sit around.
[02:33] <KaiL_> hunger: year, apt-get install package/hoary is always a good way to get something back to work
[02:33] <KaiL_> but one think I know:
[02:33] <KaiL_> one day, maybe with the breezy release, this box will finally get a reinstall - here's to much debian leftover
[02:37] <KaiL_> afaik it's potato -> woody -> sarge -> hoary -> breezy
[02:37] <KaiL_> ...so maybe a reinstall won't be the worst idea
[02:41] <hunger> KaiL_: I do snapshots before upgrading... so I can examine the changes and back them out manually.
[02:42] <hunger> KaiL_: If everything breaks I can tar up the old state and copy that over the new one;-)
[02:42] <KaiL_> also a way
[02:43] <hunger> KaiL_: That screws up the dpkg db though:-( I tend to forget to snapshot /var;-)
[02:45] <JRe> http://jr.falleri.free.fr/fichiers/kubuntu/kat/
[02:46] <JRe> for those who wants to test
[02:46] <KaiL_> what a timing - I just cleaned out the old one ;)
[02:47] <JRe> ;)
[02:49] <hunger> Why do all the kde apps need such an annoying intro-screen nowadays?
[02:50] <hunger> JRe: Help does not work for me... is that missing in the original?
[02:51] <JRe> yeah
[02:53] <JRe> so what do you thinks about the package?
[02:54] <JRe> kail seems to not appreciate at all ;)
[02:56] <hunger> Looks good to me.
[02:56] <hunger> JRe: You might want to add a help page saying that no help is available.
[02:57] <hunger> JRe: otherwise you might get bugreports about that:-)
[02:57] <JRe> ;)
[02:57] <Riddell> anyone got quark, photoshop or illustrator and want to design the kubuntu CDs?
[02:59] <KaiL> hmm
[02:59] <KaiL> needs a little bit to much RAM, if you ask me
[03:02] <hunger> Riddell: I do not use proprietary SW in non-business settings.
[03:02] <KaiL> hunger: it read the meta infos from pdfs
[03:03] <hunger> KaiL: I want the text, not the meta info...
[03:03] <hunger> KaiL: Nobody ever puts anything useful into the meta fields anyway:-)
[03:04] <hunger> JRe: Looks like you did good work.
[03:05] <KaiL> the app isn't really ready, but the package looks ok for me
[03:07] <JRe> hunger: thanx ;)
[03:08] <hunger> JRe: The deb works for me, the list of files seems to be OK, 
[03:08] <JRe> the diffstat is quite good, also ;) 
[03:08] <JRe> no unneeded file
[03:13] <JRe> hunger: okay i have contacted the usptream so that the patches will be included in the nex kat release
[03:14] <amu> Riddell: tackat? 
[03:15] <hunger> Well, kat needs some more work...
[03:15] <hunger> JRe: But that is neither your fault nor unexpected;-)
[03:16] <JRe> hunger: yeah but i think it's a good project!
[03:19] <hunger> JRe: Still crashes a bit often... but that is normal for a KDE app:-(
[03:20] <JRe> hunger: yeah you're right :)
[03:21] <JRe> i hope that one day gmail will support khtml!
[03:26] <amu> $ gmail
[03:26] <amu> bash: gmail: command not found
[03:28] <JRe> amu: ???
[03:32] <amu> err tenor 
[03:35] <Riddell> sssh amu, tango is a top secret project
[03:36] <hunger> Riddell: sssh? A secret ssh?
[03:37] <hunger> Riddell: Super Secure SHell?
[03:37] <Riddell> hunger: more super secret than that
[03:37] <amu> topsec ? :) On LinuxPlanet, Kurt Pfeifle explains details about Tenor 
[03:38] <JRe> :)
[03:38] <Riddell> no no tenor isn't top secret at all
[03:38] <Riddell> tango is super secret
[03:38] <Riddell> which is why it's daft of this lady to have put it in her biography http://2005.guadec.org/schedule/speakers.html
[03:39] <amu> Riddell: :) ups 
[03:42] <JRe> waa tango project seems great
[03:42] <JRe> ;)
[03:43] <Riddell> hmm, no
[03:43] <Riddell> it's the ximian half of novell being silly
[03:44] <JRe> !
[03:51] <Riddell> hunger: that means we must have been in the same room
[03:53] <JRe> hunger: try /usr/share/doc
[03:54] <JRe> hunger: the kat upstream wonders if the kat package will be in the universe?
[03:55] <Riddell> should be, just needs me and a couple of others to review it
[03:55] <JRe> okay i reply this to him
[03:59] <JRe> Riddell: should make an author section in KubuntuPackagingGuide to thanks the debian guide author, allee, cdbs tutorial author, ...
[03:59] <JRe> ???
[03:59] <Riddell> JRe: if you wish
[03:59] <JRe> Riddell: okay
[04:31] <allee> JRe: How about poke cdbs tut authors a bit too ;)  They flame KDE, so I guess a little (ironic) note with a smiley can't hurt ;)
[04:36] <amu> JRe: cool stuff that KubuntuPackagingGuide
[04:47] <JRe> allee: yeah they have flamed KDE but they have take it out from the new version
[04:47] <JRe> allee: but i will add a funny note, you're right
[04:47] <JRe> amu: thanks :)
[04:48] <allee> JRe: really? it still was there yesterday.  checking ...
[04:48] <dato> JRe: "take it out" what, and from were?
[04:49] <JRe> dato: https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml => no more kde flame
[04:49] <dato> ah, right. the tutorial. nvm, then.
[04:51] <JRe> allee: he does not update the wiki anymore
[04:52] <hunger> Riddell: I had kat index / :-)
[04:53] <allee> JRe: right, I've seen the note.  But because was _this_ the page I read 'long' ago.  I didn't look for another version.  The flame version is also #4 in google.
[04:53] <JRe> hunger: you have indexed /proc?
[04:53] <JRe> allee: okay i have made a joke on him :)
[04:54] <allee> ;)   I hope they don't get it wrong.  They did a create job!
[04:55] <allee> JRe: and you too
[04:55] <JRe> allee: thanks :)
[05:03] <hunger> How do you update the DB?
[05:05] <JRe> Riddell: are the kubuntu policies exactly the same than debian ones?
[05:05] <JRe> hunger: i don't have any idea 
[05:05] <hunger> JRe: I guess it does not yet work.
[05:06] <JRe> hunger: the package or the program?
[05:06] <hunger> JRe: The program.
[05:06] <hunger> JRe: As said earlier: The package seems fine to me.
[05:06] <hunger> JRe: It is version 0.5.1 after all, so such things are to be expected.
[05:08] <JRe> hunger: yeah i see it when i compile there was typical error of a 0.5.1 version ;)
[05:09] <JRe> hunger: even some text are written bad, like tat instead of Stats
[05:09] <JRe> hunger: but it's under active development!
[05:13] <hunger> JRe: It can only get better;-)
[05:13] <JRe> hunger: yeah and moreover this kind of application will be a serious advantage for kde
[05:15] <hunger> JRe: Dunno... Something like tonor (or however it was called) is.
[05:15] <JRe> waouw amarok 1.3 overview on planetkde ;)
[05:20] <JRe> hunger: what is dunno?
[05:21] <hunger> JRe: Whether kat is such a huge step forward.
[05:21] <hunger> JRe: It and its kind are basically a overhyped grep ;-)
[05:23] <JRe> hunger: yeah grep under amphetamine :)
[05:24] <hunger> JRe: well, grep has current data at all times... which I do not see with i.e. kat.
[05:25] <JRe> hunger: sure! i am also a great fan of command-line
[05:25] <hunger> JRe: This has nothing to do with commandline.
[05:26] <JRe> hunger: grep is powerfull with cat and for
[05:26] <JRe> hunger: no?
[05:26] <hunger> JRe: Generating an index implies the need to keep that current or the value of the information stored therein is going to dimish over time.
[05:27] <JRe> hunger: okay i see what you mean
[05:27] <JRe> hunger: yeah you're right grep is always up-to-date
[05:27] <hunger> JRe: So there needs to be a way to keep the index up to date... if that has to happen manually then the whole system is meaningless.
[05:28] <hunger> JRe: My parents will never ever figure out how to update some index or see the need to do so... they will just complain that Linux sucks, because it can not find their documents.
[05:28] <JRe> hunger: yeah for sure it would be meaningless to do a half an hour update before each search ;)
[05:30] <hunger> Well, I am positive that some solution will be found...
[05:30] <JRe> hunger: i hope too
[05:31] <hunger> Preferably some system wide indexing daemon (implies security issues)... otherwise lots of users will waste resources reindexing the same data all the time.
[05:31] <JRe> hunger: because in few months, my parents will have kubuntu on the computer ;)
[05:32] <JRe> hunger: basicly, it's the central point of such an application, no?
[05:32] <opi> Oi guys
[05:32] <JRe> lo
[05:32] <opi> is that a known bug:
[05:32] <opi> Unpacking replacement kdelibs-data ...
[05:32] <opi> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/kdelibs-data_4%3a3.4.0-0ubuntu3.1_all.deb (--unpack):
[05:32] <opi>  trying to overwrite `/usr/share/icons/default.kde', which is also in package knetworkconf
[05:32] <opi> Errors were encountered while processing:
[05:32] <opi>  /var/cache/apt/archives/kdelibs-data_4%3a3.4.0-0ubuntu3.1_all.deb
[05:32] <opi> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[05:32] <opi> after fetching security updates
[05:32] <hunger> JRe: Not in kat... or so it seems, guessing based on the use of sqllite.
[05:33] <JRe> hunger: yeah i had to install libsqlite3-dev
[05:34] <Riddell> doko: can I upload a new kdebase or will that get in the way of c++ transition?
[05:34] <hunger> Riddell: Fixing the hal/dbus issue?
[05:34] <JRe> opi yeah i had this bug too
[05:34] <doko> Riddell: thats ok
[05:34] <opi> Riddell: should I fill this?
[05:34] <Riddell> hunger: yes
[05:35] <JRe> opi: solution: remove knetworkconf
[05:35] <JRe> opi: install kdelibs4
[05:35] <opi> JRe: nah
[05:35] <JRe> opi: reinstall knetworkconf
[05:35] <Riddell> opi: that's known, waiting on mdz to approve the new knetworkconf
[05:35] <opi> JRe: dpkg --force-all will do the trick
[05:35] <hunger> Riddell: Great! Thanks for rebuilding this.
[05:35] <opi> Riddell: OK, I just wanted to notice you
[05:35] <JRe> opi: yeah it's an other option :) :)
[05:36] <uniq> --force-overwrite is enought force all is generally bad :)
[05:36] <uniq> +,
[05:38] <hunger> JRe: thinking about it: A global indexing service is not enough: You can not have the user's data in a central DB.
[05:38] <hunger> JRe: So you need a system DB plus user DBs... and indexing daemons to keep those updated.
[05:39] <JRe> hunger: yeah i would probably be the best!
[05:39] <hunger> JRe: ... might be worse considering replacing man then, that keeps an extra index for "man -k" IIRC.
[05:40] <JRe> hunger: it would take a lot of cpu
[05:41] <nanomad> just a quik questio...
[05:41] <hunger> JRe: Think of a university server... those have to handle 50 terminals and more.
[05:41] <nanomad> kubuntu broken now=
[05:41] <nanomad> ?
[05:41] <hunger> nanomad: On breezy?
[05:41] <nanomad> yes
[05:42] <hunger> nanomad: yes, Riddle has new debs, but does not know whether he should upload them yet.
[05:42] <JRe> hunger: i have always had many respects for this kind of servers;)
[05:43] <nanomad> hunger, hope he will upload them soon...
[05:43] <nanomad> Riddell, can u give me those debs...'cause i need konqueror...and the IO slaves...
[05:44] <uniq> nanomad: deb http://dev.kubuntu.org.uk/~jr/kubuntu/breezy/ ./
[05:44] <nanomad> thx
[05:47] <nanomad> why dont add it in topic?
[05:47] <Riddell> and uploaded to breezy, should appear in a couple of hours
[05:47] <nanomad> hope that...
[05:48] <nanomad> thx for repos....just d/l
[05:52] <nanomad> all working...except for apt-listbugs...
[06:25] <hunger> Finally managed to log in again!
[06:26] <JRe> okay bye evrybody!
[06:28] <hunger> Riddell: Kontact broke during the upgrade: Kmail plugin is not found.
[06:29] <hunger> Riddell: Sorry, false alarm: I had to deinstall kmail.
[06:30] <uniq> kdebase-kio-plugins is missing on dev.kubuntu.org.uk.. fyi. it's kdebase too, right? 
[06:30] <hunger> Is "icon for hotplug hds" supposed to work now?
[06:31] <uniq> konq wont install without kdebase-kio-plugins.. 
[06:34] <uniq> nevermind me.. duh.
[06:34] <uniq> apt-get update is generally a good idea.
[06:39] <hunger> The "icon on desktop on usbstick plugin" is supposed to work in ubuntu.
[06:40] <KaiL> ideas for both of you: first look, then let apt-get uninstall stuff ;)
[06:40] <KaiL> ...or better don't, if it's kmail and konq
[06:41] <hunger> KaiL: Apt always does the looking for me!
[06:41] <KaiL> hunger: and so uninstalled konqueror and kmail? :)
[06:42] <hunger> KaiL: Apt did that to me;-)
[06:42] <hunger> KaiL: I did not have trouble with konqi.
[06:43] <KaiL> except it got uninstalled due to the dbus update? ;)
[06:43] <hunger> KaiL: Yeap:-)
[06:44] <KaiL> oh, there's new kdebase? :)
[06:44] <hunger> KaiL: Yeap, but I installed that manually from Riddels site.
[06:45] <hunger> KaiL: So the usual apt-magic did not apply... hence the kmail trouble I had.
[06:45] <KaiL> aah!
[06:46] <amu> Riddell: qt3.3.4 build fine now, execpt some brocken automerge depends  
[06:49] <amu> KaiL, hunger do you want the new qt-lib? 
[06:49] <hunger> amu: I wouldn't mind...
[06:50] <KaiL> I guess it will break everythink, which doesn't run away fast enough? ;)
[06:50] <hunger> kubuntu-desktop still depends on the old dbus...
[06:50] <amu> nope, builded that kde still works :) 
[06:51] <uniq> hmm.. where is libdbus-qt-1-dev supposed to be? 
[06:52] <KaiL> hal needs a cleaned config file..
[06:55] <hunger> KaiL: It works is gnome...
[06:55] <KaiL> maybe I'd played to much in that file before
[06:55] <KaiL> gar
[06:56] <KaiL> hmm, I don't see hard disks any more in media:/ - bug or feature? :)
[06:58] <amu> misconfiguration ;)
[06:58] <KaiL> here or in the default?
[06:58] <amu> at your sys ... installed a brand new sys yesterday, it just works
[06:59] <hunger> Damn... turned of device icons on my desktop. No wonder nothing turned up.
[06:59] <KaiL> amu: with the new hal?
[06:59] <KaiL> ugh, also no icon for my usbstick :(
[07:01] <hunger> konqi fails to open the device now:-(
[07:01] <KaiL> hunger: you onl get an icon for the floppy in media:/?
[07:01] <Riddell> http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kubuntu-sleeve.pdf
[07:01] <KaiL> and same on the desktop?
[07:01] <hunger> KaiL: Yes.
[07:01] <KaiL> then that's not only me :(
[07:02] <hunger> KaiL: The dir is even mounted in media.
[07:02] <KaiL> Riddell: do you have your own packages running?
[07:02] <amu> KaiL: old one, breezy & hoary
[07:02] <uniq> riddell: where did you get libdbus-qt-1-dev from? to build kdebase.. 
[07:02] <hunger> KaiL: konqi is just unable to read it.
[07:02] <KaiL> libdbus-qt-1-dev - simple interprocess messaging system (Qt interface)
[07:02] <Riddell> uniq: from breezy
[07:03] <KaiL> pool/universe/d/dbus/libdbus-qt-1-dev_0.33-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
[07:03] <uniq> ok.. so my apt-cache and packages.ubuntu.com is br0ken.
[07:03] <KaiL> Riddell: nice image!
[07:04] <KaiL> p.u.c is to slow for breezy ;)
[07:04] <KaiL> Riddell: nice that you recompiled it, but: it doesn't work :)
[07:05] <amu> Riddell: sweet 
[07:07] <hunger> I can view my usbstick in konqui in /media/sda1, but not in media:/sda1 :-(
[07:07] <Riddell> KaiL: ah well, I'll take a closer look at it once the g++ stuff is done, thanks for the report
[07:07] <KaiL> :)
[07:08] <KaiL> should I file a bug? just to point asking people to..
[07:10] <amu> please file a bug
[07:10] <hunger> KaiL: A bug about what?
[07:10] <KaiL> hunger: empty media:/
[07:10] <hunger> KaiL: Good!
[07:10] <hunger> KaiL: I was just going to report that;-)
[07:10] <KaiL> damn
[07:11] <hunger> Which package should I report "wierd audio cd eject behaviour in kde" against?
[07:11] <KaiL> uhm?
[07:12] <amu> eject ? 
[07:12] <KaiL> wired in which way?
[07:12] <KaiL> wierd..
[07:12] <hunger> I insert a CD, icon appears, I click on it and do "eject". CD is ejected, icon stays forever.
[07:12] <amu> xorg .. or loadkeys ;) 
[07:12] <KaiL> oh, funny
[07:12] <amu> kdebase-kio-plugins
[07:12] <KaiL> hunger: do you get a second one with a second cd?
[07:13] <hunger> KaiL: Just searching for another CD:-)
[07:13] <KaiL> hunger: mail for cc in bug?
[07:13] <hunger> KaiL: tobias at aquazul dot com
[07:14] <hunger> KaiL: Next CD replaces the icon.
[07:14] <KaiL> seams to have worked
[07:14] <hunger> KaiL: Doesent work with data CDs though...
[07:15] <hunger> Strange... works now.
[07:17] <KaiL> dta CDs also don't work really good
[07:17] <hunger> KaiL: All will be well in kde 3.4.1 (I hope).
[07:18] <KaiL> amu: now you, let's break the other half :)
[07:18] <hunger> So far the hard part was broken dependencies on dbus:-)
[07:19] <KaiL> better 1 week with a deadly broken media:/ than without konqueror and kmail
[07:19] <amu> KaiL: probably some hours later, first i'll install it here, than on Riddell's maschine, if everything works fine you get it. 
[07:20] <KaiL> first break your own - good idea :)
[07:22] <hunger> KaiL: My konqui behaves a bit different from yours.
[07:24] <amu> KaiL: sure :)   
[07:25] <KaiL> hunger: interesting, I had what you described with a cdrom here
[07:27] <hunger> amu: As a developer you should not risk your own system! Who will provide you with fixes when your system gets broken? :-)
[07:45] <amu> ... it will not break *g*
[07:47] <hunger> amu: I think that qualifies for "famous last words".
[07:48] <KaiL> feature request (category: "you don't have? you damn bastards!" ;): system  restore..
[07:50] <hunger> KaiL: You do not know tar? ;-)