[12:01] <Tezkah> you are much nicer than #microsoft
[12:01] <kay> Well, I am sure it is to get better. I am confident to say that (K)ubuntu was so far the best hardware support
[12:02] <KaiL> allee: and on none of them you had success?
[12:02] <kay> Tezkah: Only paid less :p
[12:02] <Tezkah> now... will sleep work?
[12:02] <Tezkah> hmm
[12:02] <KaiL> you sleeping or your laptop? :)
[12:03] <kay> Likely did work just now
[12:03] <KaiL> that halp always work
[12:03] <KaiL> but awaking.....
[12:03] <allee> KaiL: suspend/hibernate I have not even tried yet.  Not knowing the state of battery is bad regardless is sleep works or not ;)
[12:03] <kay> Does Kubutu do that by default into grub?
[12:04] <nmorse> Kubuntu is the devil for suspend and hibernate
[12:04] <kay> I mean, suspend to swap and stuff
[12:04] <nmorse> They work perfectly, but the second you hit apply in the little klaptop thing's config Stuff Goes Wrong
[12:04] <nmorse> I can't even get into KDE without the suspend message coming up
[12:04] <kay> You know, this was actually first a Sarge, then I crossgraded only to Hoary and switched to Breezy the day Hoary was stable
[12:05] <kay> nmorse: Ignore klaptop in that regards, it is not good enough, IMO
[12:05] <KaiL> kay: kubuntu supports suspend to disk out of the box afaik and suspend to RAM with some easy change in settings
[12:05] <KaiL> even the second works for >>50%
[12:05] <kay> nmorse: I instead let hotplug or something do the trick, and of course powenowd and friends
[12:06] <nmorse> Yes, but now I can't load KDE
[12:06] <nmorse> I can, in fact, boot the system just fine and use Gnome, XFCE4, or Enlightenment
[12:06] <kay> Oh... mv, looks like you want to remove something like klaptoprc or so
[12:07] <nmorse> But it shuts down with the suspend messages when KDE is booted
[12:07] <KaiL> that's strange
[12:07] <nmorse> where is klaptoprc? in config in .kde/share?
[12:07] <KaiL> .kde/share/config I guess
[12:07] <kay> nmorse: I don't know the filename really, but depending on how you had configured, just rm -rf ~/.kde ?
[12:08] <nmorse> Not in .kde/share/config
[12:08] <KaiL> klaptopdeamonrc?
[12:08] <KaiL> ...or so
[12:08] <kay> find ~/.kde -name \*laptop\* tells you?
[12:08] <KaiL> :)
[12:08] <nmorse> nothing with kl* besides klipper
[12:08] <KaiL> that was my next idea
[12:09] <KaiL> suspend to disk works out of the box?
[12:09] <nmorse> kcmlaptoprc is the file, for the record
[12:09] <nmorse> Suspend to swap works just fine for me
[12:09] <KaiL> or does anything needs to be configured?
[12:09] <kay> So, nuke it and may work
[12:09] <nmorse> Just KDE screws stuff up
[12:09] <nmorse> now if only someone knew something about SMTP auth
[12:10] <kay> I found the klaptop config of stuff not up to normal KDE standards (yet)
[12:10] <nmorse> I can't stand SASL but need to do the SMTP auth for my server
[12:10] <kay> And as I said, it all works fine without it
[12:10] <nmorse> There must be an alternative to SASL somewhere
[12:10] <kay> nmorse: Can you tell more?
[12:11] <nmorse> About kcmlaptoprc and the little sys-tray daemon?
[12:11] <kay> No, your SMTP auth problems
[12:11] <nmorse> Basically, I set it up to suspend on lidbutton and to suspend on power button
[12:12] <nmorse> Oh, well my server will be going with me to college in the fall and I don't want to set up trusted senders by IP or Subnet as that's simply too many people
[12:12] <exciton> okay I did this sudo apt-get install xorg-driver-fglrx but I still can't get my res above 1024x768 and everything is still laggy and opengl is at 1 frame per 3 secs
[12:12] <exciton> any ideas?
[12:12] <nmorse> DRI is not enabled, is it?
[12:12] <nmorse> Do glxinfo | grep direct in Konsole
[12:13] <exciton> dri is in the xorg.conf file
[12:13] <nmorse> do the glxinfo bit
[12:13] <nmorse> So I'm trying to do SMTP auth completely without Cyrus-SASL if at all possible
[12:14] <exciton> Xlib: extension "XFree86-DRI" missing on display 0:0
[12:14] <KaiL> exciton: fglrx enabled in /etx/X11/xorg.conf?
[12:14] <nmorse> any ideas, kay?
[12:14] <kay> nmorse: If i understand http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SASL correctly, it doesn't really fix much
[12:14] <exciton> nope driver is still listed as ati for some reason
[12:15] <kay> nmorse: Plain text passwords are in SASL just as well as the loved NTLM
[12:15] <Tezkah> well thats no good
[12:15] <KaiL> exciton: you need to set that manually
[12:15] <Tezkah> root      8847 20.3  0.0   1532   420 pts/1    S+   16:03   0:08 rmmod rt2500
[12:15] <nmorse> I just need some way to do the SMTP authentication, PLAIN password login or not
[12:15] <Tezkah> wehn 
[12:15] <Tezkah> when I try to sleep, rmmod comes up
[12:15] <exciton> I did add posix to the fstab file but I don't think I needed to because it was all ready mounted
[12:15] <Tezkah> takes up all my megahurtz
[12:15] <kay> nmorse: Can you use certificates?
[12:16] <KaiL> Tezkah: hmm, it tries unload the module and fails :(
[12:16] <nmorse> I can do anything, probably, if it doesn't involve the living hell that is SASL
[12:16] <kay> nmorse: Or being on SSL.... why not use ssh tunnel anyway?
[12:16] <nmorse> It's like using Sendmail
[12:16] <KaiL> Tezkah: which driver version is that?
[12:16] <nmorse> SSH Tunnel, as in to act like I'm the localhost by tunneling in for SMTP?
[12:16] <Tezkah> the newest nightly
[12:17] <Tezkah> or it was when I installed it a day ago
[12:17] <nmorse> Which would, in fact, use local passwd
[12:17] <KaiL> "1.1.0 BETA2 2005/02/21" is in the package..
[12:17] <kay> right, you come in by ssh, be localhost and allow SMTP only for localhost
[12:17] <KaiL> sudo modinfo rt2500 tells..
[12:17] <nmorse> And how do I configure client software for email to do this?
[12:17] <kay> ssh is regarded somewhat secure... and you can do neat things for it too
[12:18] <Tezkah> description:    Ralink RT2500 802.11g WLAN driver 1.1.0 BETA2 2005/02/21
[12:18] <kay> uh yeah... :p
[12:18] <KaiL> hmm, halging at "configure network devices" is not good...
[12:18] <nmorse> So can KMail log in that way, or Thunderbird?
[12:18] <Tezkah> yeah, when I boot
[12:18] <Tezkah> it sits at "configuring network deviceS
[12:18] <Tezkah> but eventually it passes
[12:19] <kay> Well, postfix, exim likely could
[12:19] <transgress> wow i did more work today that i have in a long time
[12:19] <transgress> but i can see the walls in my room now!
[12:19] <KaiL> here it did that on my K6-2
[12:19] <KaiL> after playing with suspend to disk
[12:19] <KaiL> (which didn't work as is should)
[12:19] <nmorse> Transgress, are you on Jabber right now too?
[12:19] <transgress> nmorse: yes
[12:19] <nmorse> So you are the one transgress then
[12:19] <Tezkah> oh well, I gotta run anyways
[12:19] <KaiL> next try...
[12:19] <transgress> yeah i just messaged you
[12:19] <transgress> heh
[12:20] <Tezkah> I'lll work on it later
[12:20] <nmorse> I can receive your messages, but I get an error when I try to send you one
[12:20] <transgress> eh?  that's weird... that's happened to someone else too though.  what's it say?
[12:21] <kay> nmorse: you could run your mail program on that host via ssh to start with
[12:21] <nmorse> Right, so I need to tell the people using this server to ssh in, then start mutt or some other CLI client?
[12:21] <nmorse> So much for the non-SASL route
[12:21] <kay> Thought it is only you?
[12:22] <KaiL> silly
[12:22] <nmorse> No, it will probably be for a lot more people than you think
[12:22] <kay> You can tunnel X through ssh just fine though 
[12:22] <KaiL> it asked for an IP, it got an IP and now it's sitting there
[12:22] <kay> ssh -X someserver kmail
[12:22] <nmorse> I hate tunneling X through SSH
[12:22] <nmorse> It's a pain all around
[12:23] <nmorse> I may as well use FreeNX or something then
[12:23] <kay> nmorse: Ah, I didn't get your problem at all, so you really need to provide standard SASL
[12:23] <nmorse> I guess so
[12:23] <nmorse> I really hate the hell that is SASL though
[12:24] <kay> Why?
[12:24] <nmorse> Makes RPM dependency hell on Red Hat look like a field day
[12:24] <kay> It's just a standard for how to auth, even allowing for no passwords and stuff
[12:24] <nmorse> Though nothing beats sendmail.cf in complexity
[12:24] <exciton> welll I just ran the fglrxconfig as root and backed up the xorg.conf and cp the XFree86 to xorg.conf and now x will not start anyone esle have an ati card that know what I'm doing wrong
[12:24] <kay> Looks ok to me
[12:24] <kay> You must mean the cyrus implementation :-)
[12:24] <nmorse> The only full implementation?
[12:25] <nmorse> But when I once delved into sendmail.cf was still worse
[12:25] <kay> I was about to look, is really the only one?
[12:25] <KaiL> "no DHCPOFFERS received."
[12:25] <King_Brad> how do i reconfigure KDE 3.4 to make my res 1024x768?
[12:26] <kay> I was able to trust Debian on all mail configuration for some time now
[12:27] <exciton> King_Brad:  is the X server running?
[12:27] <King_Brad> yes
[12:27] <King_Brad> i am in KDE3.4
[12:27] <King_Brad> right now
[12:27] <kay> I only need satellite systems like they do just fine, with no security problems
[12:27] <KaiL> King_Brad: current res to low or to high?
[12:27] <exciton> King_Brad: Then you can just right click and config desktop
[12:27] <exciton> King_Brad: then display
[12:27] <King_Brad> kail, its too low.... its at the max that it sees
[12:27] <KaiL> exciton: that only works for reducing the res
[12:28] <King_Brad> i cannot set it any higher
[12:28] <nmorse> I'm trying to make a stand-alone mail server, like your ISP has, kay
[12:28] <King_Brad> its at like 864x450 or some crazy number like that
[12:28] <nmorse> And I'm using FreeBSD, because well I love Debian, I needed more up-to-date software
[12:28] <KaiL> King_Brad: so you need to fight with /etx/X11/xorg.conf for now
[12:28] <kay> with MX record, nmorse ?
[12:28] <exciton> KaiL: thats not 100% true if you are under 1024x768 you can use it to rase the rex
[12:28] <exciton> res*
[12:28] <King_Brad> k
[12:28] <King_Brad> thx kail
[12:29] <nmorse> Yes, MX records
[12:29] <nmorse> betterthanducttape.com is the domain
[12:29] <kay> But hey, that one has to have no auth, right?
[12:29] <nmorse> What?
[12:30] <nmorse> I'm talking about auth to relay mail through it
[12:30] <King_Brad> Kail, is there a command i can run to do a configure thingie?
[12:30] <King_Brad> or something
[12:30] <kay> Well, it has to accept mail for somebody@betterthanducttape.com from anywhere, or not nmorse ?
[12:30] <KaiL> text editor ;p
[12:30] <nmorse> Like to send mail from Thunderbird through it
[12:30] <King_Brad> bay
[12:30] <King_Brad> bah*
[12:30] <nmorse> It has to accept anyone@betterthanducttape.com, yes
[12:30] <nmorse> Just like SBC has to accept anyone@sbcglobal.net
[12:30] <nmorse> But SMTP auth is still completely possible, as they've proven
[12:31] <kay> nmorse: Ok, but for other addresses you need auth, clearly otherwise you will be a relay then
[12:32] <nmorse> Basically, I'm trying to make it so I can send mail from anywhere through my server, and still not be an open relay for spammers
[12:33] <kay> What do they auth with in the end, you give password and account?
[12:34] <nmorse> Yes, good old passwd on FreeBSD
[12:34] <transgress> what about passwd on fbsd?
[12:34] <transgress> i need to build another machine... i want a freebsd machine
[12:34] <nmorse> That's the login mechanism I'm trying to use for SASL
[12:35] <nmorse> I have a FreeBSD server sitting about 4 feet from me
[12:35] <transgress> i have a slack server next to me, but it's about to be debian
[12:35] <kay> he... nmorse my first Unix was a NetBSD :
[12:35] <transgress> if i get more ram in it ever i'ma make it freebsd
[12:35] <kay> At the time there was no FreeBSD yet :p
[12:35] <nmorse> I had a very fun time trying to set up NetBSD
[12:36] <nmorse> I really hate its installer and the lack of a first boot setup
[12:37] <transgress> i thought freebsd came out before netbsd
[12:37] <nmorse> I thought OpenBSD came after FreeBSD, and Net forked off of Open
[12:37] <nmorse> or maybe the fork was the other way
[12:37] <kay> It was the other way round
[12:37] <nmorse> Anyway, the point is FreeBSD came first
[12:38] <nmorse> And that's why OpenBSD runs on so many platforms
[12:38] <transgress> yeah i was thinking netbsd came about because of the lack of platforms for freebsd
[12:39] <kay> Why don't you try http://postfix.state-of-mind.de/patrick.koetter/smtpauth/
[12:39] <nmorse> thanks for the link, kay
[12:39] <kay> I see no reason why postfix shouldn't be easier than sendmail
[12:40] <exciton> okay back to why I'm here my system is shuting it's self off at 41C is there any ideas on how or why
[12:40] <kay> Even I have successfully edited some of its config in the past
[12:40] <kay> And besides, it is the Kubuntu default mailer
[12:40] <kay> :p
[12:40] <KaiL> next try...
[12:42] <nmorse> Kubuntu should switch to exim, like official debian has
[12:42] <kay> nmorse: I found it through Wikipedia btw, SASL -> SNMP -> Programs that implement it -> Postfix -> FAQs
[12:42] <nmorse> I wonder if POP-before-SMTP might work for me
[12:42] <kay> POP before SMTP is bad in my book
[12:43] <KaiL> better birng your children to bed, before it comes to networking here...:)
[12:43] <kay> Because the clients never do that, they first send mail and only then pop
[12:44] <kay> nmorse: Who is this Debian anyway these days :p
[12:44] <nmorse> Right, so the fact that Outlook, Outlook Express, and Thunderbird all check mail in on startup means that they won't have logged in via POP or IMAP first?
[12:44] <KaiL> hmm, *beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep*
[12:44] <nmorse> Debian is this giant dinosaur that still kicks all the little mammals' butts
[12:45] <nmorse> Of course, the little ones did come from it
[12:45] <kay> They really work hard to give Fedora chances it never deserved
[12:45] <transgress> who does?
[12:46] <kay> I remember the last security team freeze stuff.... it was only 6 months to release then
[12:46] <nmorse> Fedora doesn't have any chances aside from the Red Hat fan club and the SELinux fan club
[12:46] <transgress> i don't find fedora that bad... 
[12:46] <nmorse> It just hasn't caught up to the other desktop distros yet, and the SELinux stuff messed up a lot of software
[12:46] <kay> It is no real community Linux, but the more Debian fails to release... the more attraction Fedora has gained
[12:47] <transgress> yum repos seem to help with the rpm problems that RH had... it makes for easy as hell updates, SELinux is nice when you worry about security... 
[12:47] <transgress> i'm actually thinking of putting FC4 on my lappy when it's relesed depending on how it looks... namely waiting for new kde to be put on it
[12:47] <kay> Did you read the news about Immunix and Novell? That looks promising btw
[12:48] <nmorse> What news, kay?
[12:48] <kay> Novell bought it
[12:48] <nmorse> and Immunix makes what?
[12:48] <kay> oops :p
[12:48] <transgress> i like fedora for being more community driven... that appeals to me
[12:48] <kay> transgress: That normally should be Debian
[12:48] <nmorse> Fedora is not community driven, the Red Hat employees still have the final say
[12:48] <transgress> i didn't like that they suggested not doing a custom kernel heh
[12:49] <nmorse> It's like an out-sourced Red Hat
[12:49] <kay> Immunix is a commercial distribution of Linux with several security hardening features.
[12:49] <transgress> nmorse: key word was _more_ 
[12:49] <kay> I think it's the one, when you look for secure linux maybe
[12:49] <nmorse> Right, I still suggest Ubuntu or Kubuntu for laptops
[12:49] <transgress> and the owners of the distro always has more say in it... just like debian, ubuntu, kubuntu
[12:49] <nmorse> Real community driven distro with Debian for a base
[12:49] <transgress> i'm running ubuntu on my lappy atm... 
[12:49] <kay> Truth is, for the people Fedora is more community than outdated Debian
[12:50] <nmorse> Funny, Debian
[12:50] <kay> People won't rush to install Gnome 2.8 or KDE 3.3 over their Fedora's with newer versions
[12:50] <nmorse> 's never seemed to try to keep me out of the process
[12:50] <transgress> if debian would stop dragging their feet i'd run nothing but debian.  i love debian.  and i love the politics surrounding debian heh.
[12:50] <nmorse> I prefer Unstable or Testing for Debian anyway
[12:50] <kay> I am having high hopes on Ubuntu there, HP and people, driving it more
[12:50] <transgress> even testing debian is more outdated than current fedora however
[12:51] <nmorse> And with stuff like Ubuntu or Libranet we don't need releases often
[12:51] <nmorse> Debian is also the only distro to support so many platforms
[12:51] <nmorse> Debian runs on the f'ing FreeBSD kernel
[12:51] <nmorse> and runs on Hurd
[12:51] <kay> nmorse: Yet, where is KDE 3.4 there, where is Xorg, where has the proudness gone?
[12:51] <transgress> gentoo runs on a lot too 
[12:52] <kay> I remember the days where KDE 2.2 was in Debian FIRST
[12:52] <nmorse> Xorg and KDE 3.4 will get into Unstable when Sarge is released
[12:52] <kay> And other releases too...
[12:52] <nmorse> They're in experimental if I recall
[12:52] <transgress> but sometimes at least getting releases out on some platforms is better than getting no releases out on no platforms
[12:52] <nmorse> Have you seen what it takes to ensure software runs on ARM processors? Portable coding is dead.
[12:52] <kay> nmorse: Funny if you don't use i368, experimental is practially useless
[12:52] <kay> And they didn't support my amd64 for real, for much too long
[12:53] <nmorse> Experimental is useless if you're not a maintainer anyway
[12:53] <nmorse> Debian will probably start an official AMD64 port soon enough
[12:53] <kay> I went for Ubuntu with KDE mostly for being fed up with some unofficial server of Sid, lagging behind, being broken and just plain bad
[12:53] <nmorse> Everything hinges on Sarge's release
[12:53] <kay> For much too long
[12:54] <transgress> actually i think they said they would let whoever does the port keep doing it and they wouldn't put as much focus on amd64
[12:54] <nmorse> Everyone's been too obsessed attempting to get a 2 year late release out the door that they can't worry about new stuff
[12:54] <kay> And the quality of Sarge is _still_ not the result of the time passed
[12:54] <nmorse> Maybe if they hadn't tried to push ahead with udev support we'd have it now
[12:54] <kay> I tell you, everyone that was big in Debian now works for Canonical in many fields
[12:55] <kay> I met Debian guys at fairs, that were hired to do stuff for Fedora rather
[12:55] <kay> That SELinux guy of Redhat, he was once into Debian
[12:55] <nmorse> Yes, which means Debian still lives as it's still being developed. You didn't think that working on Ubuntu meant no work would occur on Debian, did you?
[12:55] <nmorse> The SELinux guy went where he was needed
[12:55] <lucychili> ive heard that sort of comment b4
[12:55] <kay> It's more like Debian merging Ubuntu changes back in some fields now
[12:56] <nmorse> Anyway, I'm tired of the general animosity towards Debian from most Ubuntu users
[12:56] <lucychili> yep
[12:56] <KaiL> f*ck :(
[12:56] <lucychili> not good
[12:56] <kay> You know, this Mark or Marc has the ambition to make Ubuntu replace Debian
[12:56] <lucychili> ubuntu is built on debian
[12:56] <nmorse> What's the point of attempting to kill the distribution yours is based entirely on?
[12:56] <KaiL> looks like the suspend test killed my Realtek 8139A :(
[12:56] <kay> nmorse: It is not animosity.... it is just disappointment
[12:57] <lucychili> honoring the team youre partnering with is important
[12:57] <nmorse> Will Marc ever actually convince all of the people to contine making packages for Ubuntu, which wasn't really founded on the same ideals?
[12:57] <transgress> nmorse: don't find my statements as animosity... as i said i love debian.  there is a reason many things are built on debian... but they are dragging ass like no one else.
[12:57] <kay> I am not saying that Debian will die or stuff... I am just saying it is a hell slower than it should be
[12:57] <lucychili> if ubuntu hires resources debian uses too then its a sensitive area
[12:57] <nmorse> Even the main debian devs agree it's too slow right now
[12:57] <transgress> i'm hoping the new boss there will help move shit along
[12:58] <nmorse> I guess I'm on the defensive due to the bull I hear from a lot of Ubuntu guys
[12:58] <nmorse> I'm kind of looking forward to Progeny Debian
[12:58] <kay> Debian Project Leaders serve way too short
[12:58] <lucychili> im just an end user but my concern for our org is that the future of us committing our customers to ubuntu is whether ubuntu and open office and debian can work effectively as a team long term
[12:58] <nmorse> Made by the Ian of Debian
[12:58] <kay> Don't forget Debby :p
[12:58] <nmorse> OpenOffice can't seem to get along without specific Java from Sun which is proprietary and undocumented
[12:59] <lucychili> i know that there are issues for all of these groups
[12:59] <nmorse> At this rate, the projects are going to kill each other
[12:59] <lucychili> just want to flag that for the end users we can hear the discord
[12:59] <nmorse> Probably Ubuntu and OO.o would go first, while Debian's death would lag behind
[12:59] <kay> Hey hey.... look at meeting minutes from Sun
[12:59] <kay> They are going to fix it
[12:59] <lucychili> and hope that you guys can keep it all sweet
[01:00] <nmorse> You run a business based on Ubuntu, lucychili?
[01:00] <lucychili> debain is a reliable server space
[01:00] <kay> And as I know it, Redhat already did most of the work, to make OO.o's Java parts work fine with gcj
[01:00] <lucychili> i runa community group
[01:00] <lucychili> which provides ubuntu debian boxes to people
[01:00] <lucychili> we do training on them for them
[01:00] <nmorse> Okay, lucychili
[01:00] <kay> Openoffice using so much Sun Java is really just a coincidence
[01:00] <nmorse> That's a great idea, lucy
[01:00] <sirukin> hmm
[01:00] <lucychili> and sometimes we do community groups lans
[01:01] <sirukin> I take it judging by the current topic, we're all slashdot readers.
[01:01] <nmorse> So you're like a Debian LUG for the area?
[01:01] <nmorse> Oh, probably
[01:01] <lucychili> and training for the community groups
[01:01] <nmorse> I read /.
[01:01] <kay> sirukin: What's on there?
[01:02] <sirukin> nothing
[01:02] <kay> ah, i thought there was a current post on this topic :p
[01:02] <KaiL> wtf is this?
[01:02] <nmorse> anyway, I'm hoping the trolls on either side shut up long enough for the rest of us to get some work done
[01:02] <KaiL> Realtek 8029 also doesn't want me
[01:04] <kay> Well.... i gotta take some sleep....
[01:04] <kay> bye
[01:05] <sirukin> mmm
[01:05] <sirukin> yeah, personally I don't really care.
[01:05] <sirukin> Micro$$$oft will own everyone in ten years time anyway
[01:05] <transgress> they don't now?  so i can take this electric armband off then?
[01:06] <sirukin> slap a "Pwnt by Bill" on my ass cheek, and I'll be happy to drink DRM.
[01:06] <sirukin> transgress, <insert borg star trek comment here>
[01:06] <closure> sirukin, no they won't
[01:07] <closure> sirukin, they are shaking in their boots with confidence
[01:07] <sirukin> =D
[01:07] <transgress> i do feel they are probably more worried about OSX than they are linux however
[01:07] <transgress> and seeing as they a large amount of stock in apple...
[01:08] <closure> transgress, most definitely
[01:08] <transgress> *they own
[01:08] <closure> linux is like herpes to them
[01:08] <nmorse> It keeps MS from f'ing us in the a*
[01:08] <nmorse> ?
[01:08] <closure> pops up every few months just to bother them
[01:08] <transgress> hehe my friend's brother just got diagnosed with herpes
[01:08] <sirukin> ...
[01:08] <sirukin> BWUHAHAHAHA
[01:09] <closure> *shrugs* i don't have it but it doesn't seem like a big deal to me
[01:09] <transgress> but he swears he didn't sleep around...
[01:09] <closure> get that cream or those pills and you'll be straight
[01:09] <transgress> i really wanna just explain to him how herpes works
[01:09] <closure> 98% of adults have some form of herpes
[01:09] <transgress> <-- is immuned to most types of herpes.
[01:09] <sirukin> 98% of uranus has herpes.
[01:09] <transgress> <-- is very happy about that fact
[01:10] <closure> sirukin, see that kind of herpes would suck
[01:10] <closure> sirukin, how would you know you have it? i mean who looks at their ass hole?
[01:10] <sirukin> haha
[01:10] <sirukin> that's right
[01:10] <sirukin> the GOATSE conpiracy.
[01:11] <sirukin> cons+/(-)
[01:11] <sirukin> everyone takes a photo of themselves stretching their anusses.
[01:11] <transgress> closure: umm... herpes don't just look bad... they hurt like hell... at least that's my understanding
[01:11] <sirukin> www.ratemyahole.com
[01:11] <transgress> i'm not going to that site
[01:11] <transgress> sorry
[01:12] <sirukin> I made it up.
[01:12] <sirukin> if it really exists....I will fear.
[01:13] <transgress> umm okay looking at slashdot right now... i'm not big on wiring and all that nice hardware shit... but it just seems like submerging your computer in oil would burn stuff out... 
[01:13] <transgress> the whole liquid thing...
[01:13] <transgress> am i wrong?
[01:13] <transgress> http://mirrordot.org/stories/7bb0bea011df808569857f1175b25bee/index.html <-- if you are wondering
[01:14] <closure> is that the mineral one?
[01:14] <closure> that's funny shit
[01:14] <transgress> yes
[01:14] <transgress> how can that possibly work w/o burning shit out...
[01:15] <Kisain> can anyone tell me how to run a VRML file?
[01:15] <transgress> i mean... mineral oil seems like it would make a grand conductor...
[01:15] <Kisain> i downloaded the stuff through syn but don't know what to do
[01:15] <transgress> wtf is vrml?
[01:15] <nmorse> a VRML file? As in Virtual Reality Markup Language?
[01:15] <Kisain> i work on clocks it is a great conductor
[01:16] <nmorse> Crap, I didn't know that crap was still alive
[01:16] <Kisain> yup
[01:16] <Kisain> i got the lament configuration in that fikle format
[01:16] <Kisain> file i mean
[01:16] <Kisain> i downloaded the stuff through syn 
[01:16] <Kisain> but don't know how to use it lol
[01:17] <Kisain> Virtual Reality Modeling Language
[01:17] <Kisain> is what it is lol
[01:17] <Kisain> anyone have any idea?
[01:18] <nmorse> I have no idea what to do with it. Honestly, I thought it was a dead language
[01:19] <nmorse> The graphics look like crap when it gets done
[01:19] <Kisain> damn
[01:20] <nmorse> Hmmm
[01:20] <sbcman> hey folks
[01:20] <nmorse> OpenVRML is what you're looking for Kisain
[01:21] <nmorse> LGPL
[01:21] <Kisain> is that a command line thing?
[01:21] <nmorse> 'ed VRML browser
[01:21] <Kisain> i dont understand nmorse
[01:21] <nmorse> http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=7151&ssid=212
[01:22] <nmorse> Graphical browser, like Firefox, but for VRML
[01:22] <nmorse> VRML is a 3D markup language
[01:22] <nmorse> It lets you create interactive web environments (supposedly)
[01:22] <Kisain> um synaptic syays i alredy have it how to use?
[01:24] <nmorse> try installing vrweb then
[01:24] <Kisain> kk
[01:24] <nmorse> I have no VRML files here to play with or I'd check for you
[01:25] <Kisain> i have some if you want
[01:25] <Kisain> i have the lament configuration
[01:25] <Kisain> you know the hellraser cube?
[01:25] <nmorse> I can't receive files over IRC (stupid firewall)
[01:26] <transgress> man two days w/o getting any mail
[01:27] <transgress> that bothers me... because i have so many things in the mail coming to me right now
[01:27] <Kisain> ok i installed vrweb how to run?
[01:27] <transgress> that something should've shown up
[01:27] <transgress> vrweb maybe?
[01:27] <Kisain> um duh lol
[01:27] <Kisain> bingo lol
[01:29] <KaiL> WTF?
[01:29] <Kisain> :/ dosen't work
[01:29] <KaiL> why do I need to reload the network driver on my K8, if the K6-2 get's silly?????
[01:31] <phxguy> anyone have any siggestions for a dreamweaver like html editor
[01:32] <nmorse> nvu would seem easy to use
[01:32] <nmorse> I personally do almost everything in Quanta Plus
[01:32] <phxguy> ive tried both and don't care for em but thanks for the suggestions.
[01:33] <nmorse> Don't bother with Bluefish then
[01:33] <nmorse> CoffeCup has a linux port
[01:34] <phxguy> bluefish? is it visual?
[01:34] <nmorse> Somewhat
[01:34] <KaiL> nvu looks like the seperated Mozilla Composer
[01:34] <nmorse> Not as much as Quanta Plus in visual mode
[01:34] <nmorse> Nvu is Mozilla Composer these days
[01:35] <KaiL> then I'd start with that
[01:35] <KaiL> imho it's VERY powerfull tool
[01:36] <nmorse> Did you try setting Quanta Plus to visual editor mode?
[01:36] <KaiL> veeeeeery unstable
[01:37] <nmorse> Nvu is very unstable?
[01:37] <phxguy> how do i do that nmorse 
[01:37] <KaiL> no, quanta in visual mode is
[01:41] <phxguy> Ive got Nvu and I dont care for it too much
[01:41] <Ken-OhKi> What's this 'kdelibs' bug?
[01:42] <phxguy> Quanta seems like it can do a lot but I would like something more visual... like dreamweaver
[01:42] <nmorse> Quanta has an option to be visual, but Kail claims it's unstable
[01:43] <transgress> Ken-OhKi: it's kde-libs not wanting to update with apt-get dist-upgrade
[01:43] <nmorse> Anyway, there's not a real Dreamweaver equivalent for linux
[01:43] <phxguy> well i dont see where that option is.
[01:43] <phxguy> nmorse: where?
[01:44] <nmorse> We have kwebdev (Quanta), Bluefish, and Nvu
[01:44] <nmorse> It'
[01:44] <Ken-OhKi> trans -> I have a fresh install that kde don't work...
[01:44] <nmorse> It's in one of the menus
[01:44] <transgress> well... you could always not use canned website editors
[01:44] <nmorse> ask Kail, I can't get KDE to work
[01:44] <transgress> nmorse: did you install kde from ubuntu or from kubuntu?
[01:44] <transgress> same to you Ken-OhKi?
[01:45] <phxguy> transgress: yeah i could also use windows
[01:45] <Ken-OhKi> I downloaded it today
[01:45] <transgress> because spyware and virii are good for you.
[01:45] <transgress> because instability is good too... 
[01:46] <nmorse> I installed Ubuntu, then installed KDE from it
[01:46] <nmorse> The problem is with kcmlaptoprc, I think
[01:46] <nmorse> Which I rm'ed but haven't checked on since
[01:46] <Ken-OhKi> I wonder if reinstall it change anything
[01:47] <KaiL_hoary> Ken-OhKi: it should
[01:47] <Ken-OhKi> Is this KDE issue a version problem?
[01:47] <Ken-OhKi> GOD! I think I know what got wrong
[01:47] <KaiL_hoary> in fact you are the first, who has any problems to get into KDE at all ;)
[01:47] <phxguy> nmorse. did you do the apt-get install kubuntu-desktop 
[01:47] <nmorse> Yeah
[01:47] <phxguy> odd
[01:48] <nmorse> The problem is with a config I did afterwards
[01:48] <Ken-OhKi> KaiL -> After the first stage of the install, when we reboot, I didn't put the CD back on the drive (to get files if needed). May this be a source of problem?
[01:48] <transgress> i couldn't get kde to work from ubuntu either
[01:48] <transgress> i ended up installing kubuntu directly and it worked fine
[01:48] <KaiL> Ken-OhKi: a "small" problem, yes
[01:49] <KaiL> to be more exact nothing will work without that ;)
[01:49] <Ken-OhKi> KaiL -> See, transgress have this problem too ^^
[01:49] <Ken-OhKi> I'll just download this NS map and I'll reboot
[01:49] <KaiL> no, that's something diff ;)
[01:50] <Ken-OhKi> What's the difference? KDE doesn't work...
[01:50] <nmorse> I think I need to restart KDE and see if it works now
[01:50] <nmorse> Be back in a minute
[01:50] <nmorse> VPL editor in the lower toolbar, BTW, phxguy
[01:51] <nmorse> That'll get you into the visual editor
[01:51] <KaiL> huh?
[01:51] <phxguy> hmmm try thats nmorse  and it isnt very visual... imho
[01:51] <KaiL> uhm, why now my K6-2 reconnected?!
[01:51] <phxguy> oh well
[01:52] <Ken-OhKi> [KaiL] ->Well, now that you said... a LOT of stuff was on APTITUDE saying that wasn't installed
[01:52] <KaiL> Ken-OhKi: only the base system is ;9
[01:53] <Ken-OhKi> [KaiL] ->Let me guess: It makes a lot of sense?
[01:53] <KaiL> well... do a reinstall :)
[01:53] <Ken-OhKi> Do I need to delete the partition? Or just run the CD and try to override it is enough?
[01:54] <KaiL|hoary> better the clean way
[01:54] <Ken-OhKi> ok
[01:54] <Ken-OhKi> thanks
[01:54] <Ken-OhKi> cya later
[01:54] <KaiL> grr
[01:54] <phxguy> well thanks for your help people.   Im outta here
[01:56] <KaiL_hoary> wtf is going on here now??
[01:56] <transgress> huh?
[01:56] <transgress> my cat seems oblivious that my keyboard is on top of her...
[01:57] <transgress> wb nmorse ... any luck?
[01:57] <nmorse> I'm in Konversation in KDE 3.4
[01:57] <transgress> cool
[01:57] <KaiL_hoary> nmorse: oh, cool :)
[01:57] <transgress> konversation is alright... wish i could make the background transparent though
[01:58] <nmorse> I just wish that I hadn't had to completely erase kcmlaptoprc to get it to work
[01:58] <KaiL> *waaaaaaaah*
[01:58] <transgress> wtf
[01:59] <KaiL> soon you'll see my K6-.2 reconnecting ;)
[02:01] <KaiL|500> comments?
[02:01] <KaiL|500> dirty jokes?
[02:02] <KaiL|500> I bet I can't reproduce it now, as I have a ping on the other box running
[02:03] <KaiL|500> what did I say? :)
[02:04] <KaiL|500> KaiL_hoary: die you damn ghost!
[02:04] <KaiL> now it happened...
[02:05] <transgress> man... i hate giving customers bad news on the helpdesk...
[02:05] <KaiL> only for some seconds the connection to the K8 got lost and bang, freenode doesn't want me any more
[02:05] <transgress> because i have the highest rating of all the workers heh... and i'm competing close and don't wanna lose that.
[02:05] <KaiL> transgress: hmm?
[02:06] <transgress> eh the support system for where i work... i just had to give a customer bad news... and the customer gets to give us a rating on how well we helped... and i have the highest rating of all the workers... and this bad news is probably gonna drop me a notch
[02:08] <KaiL> what does "bad news" mean?
[02:09] <transgress> umm he was trying to install a cgi proxy on his website and couldn't get it to work and wanted to know why... well instead of telling him why, i got to tell him he isn't allowed to install those.
[02:09] <KaiL> oh
[02:11] <KaiL> that's in fact no answer to make him happy
[02:11] <transgress> yep, but he should've read the TOS
[02:12] <KaiL> hell, the more you watch a problem, the longer it takes to reappear?
[02:12] <transgress> watch pot never boils eh?
[02:12] <KaiL> bang, there is was
[02:12] <KaiL> and again
[02:13] <KaiL> silly, why should a dhcp-client refetch the IP from time to time?
[02:13] <KaiL> and even more strange:
[02:14] <KaiL> nonono, that's to much for me today...
[02:14] <KaiL> silly hardware
[02:15] <nmorse> What kind of adapter is it again?
[02:15] <KaiL> maybe it'll work better tomorrow :)
[02:15] <KaiL> nmorse: the one getting silly here? RealTek 8139A on one side, nForce3 on the other
[02:16] <nmorse> Okay, no help from me on those
[02:16] <KaiL> hehe
[02:16] <nmorse> AMD64 has hardware issues, doesn't it
[02:16] <KaiL> it's a 32Bit-System
[02:17] <KaiL> if I'd at least know, which card does this nonsence
[02:17] <KaiL> both could be..
[02:18] <nmorse> nForce 3 is AMD64 only, isn't it?
[02:18] <KaiL> there are also K8 based Semprons - they are 32bit only
[02:18] <KaiL> this is such a thing
[02:19] <nmorse> Oh, K8 Semprons
[02:19] <nmorse> Makes a lot of sense, really
[02:20] <KaiL> it does - powernow and low price
[02:22] <KaiL> maybe the nForce driver from nvidia helps
[02:31] <KaiL> or there where 2 (or more) dhclients fighting with each other
[02:31] <KaiL> let's see.....
[02:33] <Bicchi> anyone using gaim to instance messange people?
[02:34] <luke> I am. whys that?
[02:34] <Bicchi> do you see a popup window when a user signs on
[02:35] <luke> yeah, don't you?
[02:35] <Bicchi> no
[02:35] <Bicchi> what do you need to set?
[02:35] <luke> install gaim guifications
[02:35] <luke> it's in synaptic
[02:35] <Bicchi> ok
[02:35] <KaiL> nmorse: DHCPREQUEST/DHCPACK every few seconds is not normal, or?
[02:35] <Bicchi> luke: i allready have it installed.
[02:36] <luke> on gaim tools > preferences > plugins enable guifications
[02:38] <KaiL_hoary> this seams to be fixed :)
[02:38] <Bicchi> luke: cool thanks. now i need someone to signon to try it. 
[02:39] <luke> no problem :)
[02:39] <Bicchi> luke: i also do not see the buddy icon on the chat window.
[02:39] <Bicchi> luke: like for aol.
[02:39] <luke> I don't use aol so I don't know. it could be a aol thing
[02:40] <luke> if they have a picture it will usually show
[02:40] <Bicchi> i know, thats the weird part. its showing for msn.
[02:41] <transgress> you sure they have a buddy icon?
[02:41] <transgress> it'll show... especially by default...
[02:41] <luke> it's probibly an aol thing
[02:41] <transgress> man i don't miss buddy icons
[02:41] <Bicchi> yeah they do have buddy icons. i just checked from windows
[02:41] <transgress> then he's probably right... probably an aol thing
[02:41] <transgress> tell them to get a real isp
[02:42] <transgress> and that'll fix it
[02:42] <transgress> ;)
[02:42] <luke> haha
[02:42] <Bicchi> i do not use aol but i use their messenger.
[02:46] <nmorse> I like the DBUS news for the topic
[02:46] <luke> whats that about?
[02:48] <luke> anyone here ever tried gentoo?
[02:48] <nmorse> It's still on my desktop, I think
[02:48] <nmorse> This is my laptop
[02:49] <nmorse> What about it, luke?
[02:49] <luke> o yup. I'm setting up a webserver with it. but I'm installing kde to see what it's like on gentoo. taking forever
[02:49] <nmorse> Never ever use Gentoo on a server
[02:49] <nmorse> I made that mistake once
[02:49] <luke> whys that?
[02:49] <nmorse> Etc-update ran automatically and wiped all of my config files
[02:50] <nmorse> Couldn't even boot because /etc/fstab was re-written
[02:50] <luke> how did it run automatically?
[02:50] <nmorse> No idea
[02:50] <nmorse> Might have been in a cron.monthly or something, but I didn't put it there
[02:50] <luke> very strange
[02:50] <nmorse> I didn't like the stability either really, or the difficulty in configuring things
[02:51] <nmorse> went back to FreeBSD for stability and 'make config'
[02:51] <luke> are you running kubuntu at the moment?
[02:52] <luke> I reacon it's going to take all week to compile kde :p
[02:52] <nmorse> On my laptop
[02:52] <nmorse> Compiling KDE takes about 4 hours on my Athlon XP 2500+ with 1 GB of RAM
[02:53] <luke> haha this is a k6
[02:53] <luke> 450mhz :p
[02:53] <nmorse> I remember running linux on a 450 mHz computer with 128 MB of RAM
[02:53] <nmorse> KDE was the slowest thing ever
[02:53] <luke> stink..
[02:53] <nmorse> But the new 3.4 is pretty darn fast
[02:54] <nmorse> I have no idea how fast on that though
[02:54] <luke> well I'll see in a week :p
[02:54] <KaiL> luke: how much RAM?
[02:54] <luke> 128
[02:54] <KaiL> ugs
[02:54] <nmorse> You should probably run something else for a server anyway
[02:55] <luke> yeah maybe.
[02:55] <KaiL> compiling KDE on a K6-2/450 + 128MiB RAM?
[02:55] <KaiL> you are silly :)
[02:55] <luke> haha
[02:55] <KaiL> oh, and 50mhz more
[02:55] <nmorse> I really reccomend FreeBSD, despite the compile times
[02:56] <nmorse> No need for KDE, everything can be done without X11
[02:56] <nmorse> I actually just SSH in when I need to do something, no keyboard, mouse, or monitor needed
[02:56] <luke> yeah I could've done without kde, I just want to see how it runs
[02:56] <KaiL> X on a Server is waste of RAM and of diskspace
[02:57] <nmorse> Don't fool yourself into thinking Gentoo's KDE is any faster than anyone else's
[02:57] <nmorse> The optimizations do squat
[02:57] <incubii> i see no speed increase using gentoo at all
[02:57] <nmorse> The only reason I used it was non-RPM distro the ATI drivers worked in
[02:57] <KaiL> << goes sleeping
[02:58] <luke> wouldn't it be more stable though. I reacon it would be more stable than kubuntu, I've had too many crashes. kubuntu doesn't like :( I'm sticking with it for a little while longer though
[02:59] <KaiL> what crashes for you?
[02:59] <KaiL> konq and kaffeine?
[02:59] <incubii> if yer gonna do gentoo you mas as well go the whole hog and do LFS instead
[02:59] <nmorse> Gentoo is not stable, by any stretch of the imagination
[02:59] <nmorse> I've run it both desktop and server, and I know this from experience
[02:59] <KaiL> gentoo can't be stable
[02:59] <luke> I don't use kaffeine, konq crashes, and occasionally the whole thing freezes up
[03:00] <KaiL> luke: the last is a hardware problem imho
[03:00] <nmorse> Yeah, it probably is
[03:00] <nmorse> Hardware problems are responsible for lots of BSOD's in Windows too
[03:00] <luke> what would cause it then?
[03:00] <nmorse> When does it crash?
[03:00] <nmorse> Is it reproducible?
[03:00] <luke> no particular times, just out of the blue
[03:01] <nmorse> Defintely sounds like a hardware error
[03:01] <KaiL> luke: bad RAM, overheated CPU, unstable power supply, overheated graphics chip.....
[03:01] <Ken-OhKi> KaiL, It works
[03:01] <KaiL> bingo
[03:01] <transgress> man i'm really digging this new mudvayne album
[03:01] <KaiL> somebody else happy ;)
[03:02] <KaiL> luke: I have a K6-2 here, which really does every nonsence, you can imagine
[03:02] <nmorse> luke, try running Ubuntu-memtestx86 when you get to grub after a reboot
[03:02] <KaiL> but it never freezed ;)
[03:02] <Ken-OhKi> Now I just wonder: When I was trying to fix up my network through KDE, it asked a pass. I entered the root pass and I got a wrong pass error
[03:02] <KaiL> Ken-OhKi: your user password
[03:02] <luke> it isn't overheating,  could be power supply I doubt it's memory but I'll run that test to see
[03:02] <Ken-OhKi> O.O
[03:03] <Ken-OhKi> sudo (blablabla) requires only the user pass?
[03:03] <KaiL> luke: which graphics card?
[03:03] <KaiL> Ken-OhKi: yes and those dialogs too
[03:03] <luke> gforce 4 mx440
[03:03] <KaiL> you should never need a root pw
[03:03] <nmorse> sudo does in fact only require your user pass, and works for everyone according to the sudoers file
[03:03] <KaiL> luke: hmm, I have a GF2 MX400 there
[03:04] <luke> I had some problems with that overheating, but I stuck a fan under that, and it's cool
[03:04] <nmorse> What drivers are you using for the graphics card? NV or Nvidia?
[03:04] <KaiL> nvidia
[03:04] <luke> NV I think
[03:04] <nmorse> try using the Nvidia ones then
[03:04] <KaiL> oh, he was asked ;)
[03:05] <luke> how do I change?
[03:05] <KaiL> nmorse: what would have been the answer, if he'd ansered "nvidia"? ;)
[03:05] <rodrigo> hi, can anyone help me? im new to kubuntu and have some mouse problems
[03:05] <KaiL> +w
[03:05] <KaiL> rodrigo: then tell us
[03:05] <nmorse> He couldn't have, Kail
[03:05] <KaiL> after fighting with this MX510 I should be the mouse expert here *g*
[03:06] <transgress> KaiL: why did you have to fight with it?
[03:06] <KaiL> nmorse: why not?
[03:06] <KaiL> transgress: tried to get _all_ buttons to do something usefull
[03:06] <nmorse> He wouldn't be having that problem
[03:06] <KaiL> nmorse: known bug?
[03:06] <transgress> KaiL: oh... did you?
[03:06] <nmorse> Frequent bug really
[03:06] <nmorse> I know of it having only used ATI cards
[03:07] <KaiL> transgress: the sidebuttons are working
[03:07] <rodrigo> thanks, i have a toshiba satellite A20 series, i need to disable the touchpath taping, i read something about going to xorg.conf and telling it to MaxTabTime 0, but nothing happens with this.. i even comented the hole mouse sections atn the xorg and still have mouse, what can i do?
[03:07] <transgress> how'd you do that? i really would like to map them to go forward and back in history if possible
[03:07] <transgress> KaiL: ^
[03:07] <nmorse> trying that, luke?
[03:08] <KaiL> rodrigo: uhm, disable the touchpad at all..?
[03:08] <Ken-OhKi> Does anyone here know anything about the "number odf brody" or something like that? A constant related to human-body "process"
[03:08] <luke> nmorse: how do I change the drivers?
[03:08] <rodrigo> no, just the tapping, but in my test i wanted to disable it at all and also nothing happened commenting all the mouse lines at xorg.conf
[03:09] <KaiL> tapping comes to fast? ;)
[03:09] <rodrigo> yes, exactlly
[03:09] <transgress> rodrigo: first you gotta make sure that it is loading as a touchpad and not a regular mouse
[03:09] <KaiL> transgress: should be done, as we always send the synaprics driver to /dev/psaux
[03:09] <transgress> /var/log/X.something will tell you... i can't seem to fix it on my lappy because for some reason it doesn't wanna load as a synaptic mouse
[03:10] <transgress> KaiL: mine doesn't... 
[03:10] <Ken-OhKi> Anyone?
[03:11] <KaiL> rodrigo: try to install ksynaptics and play a bit with the prefs in that
[03:11] <KaiL> maybe there's something to get the touchpad behaving as it should
[03:11] <luke> Ken-Ohki: try the user pass
[03:11] <transgress> those won't do jack if the mouse isn't loading right...
[03:11] <luke> Ken-Ohki: wrong thing sorry :p
[03:11] <Ken-OhKi> Does anyone here know anything about the "number odf brody" or something like that? A constant related to human-body "process"
[03:12] <luke> nmorse: how do I change the drivers?
[03:12] <rodrigo> ok, just for the notice, i also read about tpconfig, but ii do tpconfig -1 ad some errores are coming
[03:12] <transgress> tpconfig?
[03:12] <transgress> oh
[03:12] <rodrigo> atal:
[03:12] <rodrigo> No Synaptics or ALPS touchpad device found
[03:12] <nmorse> you just install the nvidia-glx package and reconfigure x.org
[03:12] <KaiL> ...before I'll break somebodys system *g*
[03:12] <transgress> rodrigo: probably having the same problem as me then... i still haven't found a fix
[03:13] <rodrigo> What the F!"#  LOL!!!
[03:13] <nmorse> http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/BinaryDriverHowto is the site for you, luke
[03:13] <luke> thanks
[03:14] <transgress> luke: you trying to install ati?
[03:14] <luke> transgress: nah nvidia drivers
[03:14] <transgress> oh
[03:14] <transgress> nm then
[03:14] <rodrigo> whats the command to run ksynaptics, there seem to be no ksynaptics even i have done apt-get install ksynaptics
[03:15] <transgress> iuno
[03:16] <luke> rodrigo: you mean kynaptic?
[03:16] <transgress> luke: no... he is talking about the synaptics touchpad program
[03:16] <luke> ok :p
[03:17] <rodrigo> nop
[03:17] <rodrigo> LOL
[03:18] <rodrigo> so transgress,  you're now used to the freaking taping?? LOL!
[03:18] <transgress> rodrigo: yeah sort of... 
[03:18] <rodrigo> i just hate it
[03:18] <transgress> rodrigo: i really actually hate it, but can't figure out how to fix it
[03:18] <nmorse> I just turn the touchpad off by default and use a USB mouse
[03:18] <transgress> but i intend on getting a wireless mouse for it soon... but since i use it in bed a lot that won't help
[03:19] <nmorse> Then when I don't have my mouse with me (like on an airplane) I swap xorg.conf files
[03:19] <nmorse> I'm considering using coldplug and some scripts to do this for me
[03:19] <transgress> i don't even have to switch xorg.conf's to use a usb mouse
[03:19] <transgress> it just works when i plug it in
[03:19] <nmorse> No, but you do if you want the touchpad turned off at the same time
[03:20] <nmorse> Only one mouse at a time for me
[03:20] <rodrigo> nmorse but do you know how to disable the taping? i dont care at all the hole touchpad, but the taping is horrible
[03:20] <transgress> actually... i can turn the touchpad off and the usb still work... w/o changing xorgs
[03:20] <rodrigo> how do you turn the touchpad off?
[03:20] <transgress> rodrigo: as my typing teacher would say "don't rest your palms"
[03:21] <rodrigo> LOL!!!!!
[03:21] <nmorse> You open xorg.conf, comment out all the lines for that mouse device, then change it from /dev/mouse to /dev/usb/mouse1 or some such to switch to your other mouse
[03:21] <rodrigo> nmorse, i just commented all the lines that have something to do with any kind of mouse, and still have the touchpad
[03:21] <transgress> i really do think that is overkill... because i am betting he can plug in the usb mouse, turn off the touchpad and have the usb mouse work
[03:22] <nmorse> Yeah, but you have to turn off the touchpad first
[03:22] <nmorse> Which is the fun part, as 2.6 kernels lump all mice together in one device
[03:22] <transgress> how do you mean?
[03:22] <nmorse> The key is to make x.org ask for only one mouse, such as /dev/input/mouse1
[03:23] <nmorse> not /dev/mouse
[03:23] <transgress> mine asks for /dev/input/mice
[03:23] <nmorse> Anyway it does it, you should configure it to the specific device if you don't want both
[03:23] <transgress> iuno... maybe i'm just lucky...
[03:23] <nmorse> When you plug in the USB mouse, does the touchpad automatically switch off?
[03:24] <nmorse> Didn't think so, hence the trouble I went through
[03:24] <nmorse> As I hate typing and having the cursor jump about wildly at the same time
[03:25] <rodrigo> i just did the test, i pluged my usb mous and have the 2 mouse on, the touchpad and the usb
[03:25] <transgress> nmorse: no it doesn't automatically switch off... but if i hit the power button for it, the usb mouse works fine
[03:25] <nmorse> There's no power button on my touchpad
[03:25] <rodrigo> neither in mine
[03:25] <transgress> oh
[03:26] <transgress> well i guess the power button makes me lucky then heh
[03:26] <nmorse> So just comment out the InputDevice lines for the Synaptics Touchpad and change the /dev/input/mice line to /dev/input/mouse1
[03:26] <rodrigo> the fact is.. i cant turn off my touchpad in anyways.. commenting all the xorg.conf doesnt turn it off
[03:26] <nmorse> Then change the whole server config to switch to the USB mouse too
[03:27] <nmorse> Save copies of it both ways and use whichever one you need
[03:27] <nmorse> You haven't changed the /dev/input/mice line
[03:27] <nmorse> Do you have sshd running, rodrigo?
[03:27] <rodrigo> yes
[03:27] <nmorse> Nevermind
[03:27] <nmorse> In your xorg.conf file, are there two InputDevice sections?
[03:28] <rodrigo> yes.. both are commented
[03:28] <nmorse> Commenting both shuts off all the mice, doesn't it?
[03:28] <nmorse> Or have you not restarted X since that last change?
[03:28] <rodrigo> i have noticed something, when i started the x, the system uncomented my lines.. is this possible?
[03:29] <nmorse> Shouldn't be
[03:29] <nmorse> Have you saved the file back to disk?
[03:29] <rodrigo> yea... LOL... ok, hold on some minutes so i shut down x, and try again.. BRB
[03:31] <luke> if I can a connection to a computer through ssh on this computer, and I close that connection while doing something? will it carry on doing that?
[03:31] <nmorse> probably not
[03:32] <luke> didn't think so
[03:32] <pussfeller> luke screen
[03:32] <luke> ??
[03:32] <nmorse> screen will do it
[03:32] <pussfeller> you need screen to keep a shell open and running if you log out
[03:33] <nmorse> Screen lets you make sessions you can detach and then reattach too
[03:33] <pussfeller> its worth the learning curve
[03:33] <luke> so install screen?
[03:33] <nmorse> I can't believe I didn't think of it
[03:33] <nmorse> how'd it go, rodrigo?
[03:33] <rodrigo> well, commented the lines, and still have mouse.. 
[03:34] <rodrigo> i dont know what is going on.. is it possible that it is taking the configuration from some other place?
[03:34] <nmorse> Did you change the /dev/input/mice line
[03:34] <nmorse> ?
[03:35] <rodrigo> its commented.. LOL!!!
[03:35] <luke> pussfeller: how do I use screen? 
[03:35] <nmorse> No, only comment one device section (the synaptics touchpad one)
[03:36] <nmorse> Then alter the other line to read /dev/input/mouse1
[03:36] <nmorse> Hang on
[03:36] <pussfeller> luke, you will have to find a tut
[03:37] <luke> ok. thanks
[03:38] <nmorse> okay, did you get that Rodrigo?
[03:38] <rodrigo> sure, BRB
[03:43] <luke> anyone have any idea how to use screen to transfer one terminal session to another? so I can logout?
[03:43] <rodrigo> hi... nmorse, that worked, my touchpad is disabled at all,
[03:43] <nmorse> It did work then?
[03:44] <rodrigo> yea,,, but now what do you think i can do to just disable te tapping, i like my touchpad but i hate the taping..
[03:45] <nmorse> taping?
[03:45] <nmorse> Like when you hit it with your palm while typing?
[03:45] <rodrigo> exactly... 
[03:46] <nmorse> Does your touchpad have a palm detection extension?
[03:47] <rodrigo> no idea..
[03:47] <nmorse> Okay
[03:49] <rodrigo> well.. i guess no one has a clue about this.. this freaking touchpad...
[03:49] <nmorse> ksynaptics stuff didn't work for you?
[03:50] <rodrigo> cant start it.. LOL...
[03:50] <rodrigo> there is no ksynaptic command
[03:51] <nmorse> I noticed that
[03:51] <nmorse> I'm trying to figure out how to make it run
[03:51] <nmorse> I'm also trying to figure out if the Kubuntu mouse theme is the same as the Ubuntu mouse theme
[03:52] <rodrigo> you're on ubuntu?
[03:52] <nmorse> It's a kcm
[03:52] <nmorse> That means it's in KControl
[03:53] <nmorse> K Menu -> Control Center
[03:53] <nmorse> Peripherals -> Touch Pad
[03:53] <nmorse> That should help you out, rodrigo
[03:53] <nmorse> a whole tab devoted to tapping
[03:53] <nmorse> Just uncheck the box
[03:54] <rodrigo> yea..., restarting x with the synaptic on.. brb to see if it helps
[03:54] <rodrigo> thanks
[03:54] <nmorse> That my friends, is why I normally charge tech support by the hour
[03:54] <nmorse> Could have mad $30 off that one
[03:54] <nmorse> s/mad/made
[03:57] <luke> anyone have any idea how to use screen to transfer one terminal session to another? so I can logout?
[03:58] <nmorse> You just detach it somehow
[03:58] <nmorse> Not really sure
[03:58] <nmorse> try man screen
[03:59] <rodrigo> nmorse, so you think i should restart after i changed the options at the kcontrol?, i just changed it to no taping and nothin happens, still enabled the taping
[03:59] <nmorse> Did you hit apply or ok?
[03:59] <rodrigo> yes, i just entered agian and its still there
[04:00] <rodrigo> the use tapping is unchecked
[04:00] <nmorse> We still don
[04:00] <nmorse> 't know if you have the palm detection installed
[04:01] <nmorse> But the tapping behavior should be fixed on a restart of X, probably
[04:02] <rodrigo> ok.. restarting for the last time.. one second..
[04:02] <khagberg> hey folks, anyone have experience with kmail and spambayes
[04:02] <transgress> nmorse: what do you use for your jabber client?
[04:02] <nmorse> Usually gaim, why?
[04:03] <transgress> nmorse: because it seems some people using kopete are having the same problem with not being able to send messages to other people
[04:03] <transgress> do you remember what error it gave you when trying to send me a message?
[04:03] <rodrigo> i just give up!!!! nothing is happening..
[04:03] <nmorse> Yeah
[04:04] <rodrigo> where can i post my problem to the kubuntu guys??
[04:04] <nmorse> Try the community forums on Ubuntulinux.org
[04:05] <nmorse> There should be a Kubuntu forum somewhere
[04:05] <rodrigo> ok.. thanks a lot!!!
[04:08] <nmorse> There is a Kubuntu forum there somewhere, right?
[04:08] <luke> yup
[04:09] <nmorse> Good, didn't want to send him on a goose chase
[04:09] <luke> haha he might have ended up making one
[04:09] <nmorse> would have been quite funny, really
[04:10] <nmorse> Particularly when the Kubuntu devs found out
[04:10] <luke> hehe
[04:10] <khagberg> anyone have any update on the knetworkconf conflicts with kdelibs-data problem, like when it will be fixed
[04:11] <transgress> khagberg: /topic
[04:15] <luke> how much diskspace do you think kde takes up?
[04:15] <nmorse> about 250MB I'd bet, maybe more
[04:15] <nmorse> Maybe a lot more
[04:16] <luke> my system is only 3 gigs without all my personal files, I have gnome on here aswell
[04:17] <transgress> luke: don't do it then
[04:17] <luke> transgress: don't do what?
[04:17] <transgress> fuck... with 3 gigs i'd run blackbox and take gnome off...
[04:17] <transgress> don't put kde on there
[04:17] <nmorse> Anyone know how where pure-ftpd makes the chrooted anonymous directory?
[04:17] <luke> no no thats how much diskspace my system is taking up
[04:19] <transgress> oh
[04:19] <transgress> hehe install unreal2k4... that'll take up some space
[04:20] <thoreauputic> luke: when I did " apt-get install kubuntu-desktop" it downloaded about 100MB - I don't really know how much that expands to when installed, but apt will tell you
[04:20] <nmorse> How big is the drive?
[04:20] <luke> ok thanks. I have 80 gigs
[04:20] <luke> just curious :p
[04:21] <luke> transgress: whats unreal2k4?
[04:21] <transgress> BLASPHEMY
[04:22] <transgress> unreal tournament 2004... it's a computer game heh
[04:22] <luke> can you get it for linux..?
[04:22] <transgress> hell yeah... works for linux out of the box... if your hardware can handle it
[04:23] <luke> I thought it was just a windows game
[04:23] <transgress> nopers
[04:24] <nmorse> UT2004 and Doom 3 are both available for Linux
[04:24] <nmorse> Same with Quake 3
[04:24] <nmorse> and Neverwinter Nights
[04:25] <transgress> yar... although i rarely play games anymore... find doing geek stuff more fun these days
[04:27] <nmorse> Like making sound work on an eMachines laptop?
[04:29] <nmorse> the ali sound card works fine under windows, but not linux
[04:29] <nmorse> Even though the driver modules are loaded
[04:29] <transgress> my sound works on my lappy, but it's an hp
[04:29] <transgress> nmorse: might ask b2s in #ubuntu about that however, i do believe he runs an emachines lappy
[04:30] <transgress> nmorse: run everything through arts... keeps stuff from conflicting
[04:30] <transgress> nmorse: what kind of soundcard? i8x0?
[04:30] <transgress> nforce?
[04:30] <nmorse> ali
[04:30] <transgress> oh
[04:30] <nmorse> m5475
[04:30] <transgress> yeah well i'd still bug him see if he can help... 
[04:31] <transgress> nmorse: also make sure other sound modules aren't loaded... i had that problem getting my sound to work... conflicting modules were running
[04:31] <nmorse> Only one sound card in this laptop
[04:31] <luke> I had a problem with that, the kubuntu sound system was using arts and with that going I couldn't use xmms or anything that used sound, so I disabled the sound system, and the other programs that needed sound worked
[04:31] <Ken-OhKi> I logged in KDE and Im trying to set up my network devices. When I try to go in admin-mode, it ask my password
[04:32] <Ken-OhKi> but the damned thing don't open the option
[04:32] <Ken-OhKi> what to do?
[04:32] <transgress> luke: configure xmms to use arts... or use juk or amarok
[04:32] <transgress> luke: unless you have a good soundcard that has an onboard mixer
[04:32] <luke> amarok had the same problem
[04:33] <nmorse> b2s has been idle for over 2 days
[04:33] <transgress> haha neato
[04:33] <transgress> iuno... maybe he's been busy
[04:35] <nmorse> Great
[04:36] <transgress> nmorse: so no sound works at all?
[04:37] <nmorse> none
[04:38] <transgress> umm for some reason... next to my clock... it now says moscow
[04:39] <transgress> anyone know why?
[04:39] <luke> haha I had that problem with xandros kde, it changes the timezone randomly sometimes..
[04:41] <nmorse> I hate when that happens
[04:41] <nmorse> I think it's a hidden hotkey or something
[04:43] <Ken-OhKi> I logged in KDE and Im trying to set up my network devices. When I try to go in admin-mode, it ask my password
[04:43] <Ken-OhKi> but the damned thing don't open the option
[04:43] <Ken-OhKi> what to do?
[04:43] <transgress> but there wasn't even anything by it prior to this
[04:44] <transgress> it didn't say a location
[04:44] <transgress> ah there we go
[04:44] <Ken-OhKi> ...
[04:44] <luke> Ken-OhKi: in the control center?
[04:44] <Ken-OhKi> yes
[04:45] <luke> look in ubuntu forums, I don't remember the link, but I had the same problem and it fixed it. it's in there somewhere
[04:45] <Ken-OhKi> I tried both my pass and root pass but none work
[04:45] <luke> it's a bug in the control center
[04:46] <luke> if you can't be bothered finding it, run sudo kcontrol
[04:50] <poopinaboot> yeah, thats what i did
[04:50] <poopinaboot> sudo kcontrol
[04:50] <poopinaboot> and all was kosher
[04:51] <luke> I fixed the bug somehow, I just don't remember how
[04:51] <luke> it
[04:51] <luke> it's in the ubuntu forums
[04:53] <_nate> bah, not enough trouble to actually go fix it
[04:53] <luke> yeah
[04:55] <_nate> gah, I have nothing to do anyways
[04:58] <_nate> looks like there isn't much of a solution, at least not a permanent one
[04:58] <_nate> just a lot of people swinging large sticks in the dark trying to hit a fruit fly
[04:59] <luke> it is in there. I have no problems with it now
[04:59] <_nate> gah
[04:59] <_nate> something about deleting kdecache
[04:59] <_nate> and some people reinstall kcontrol
[04:59] <luke> yeah thats the one
[05:00] <luke> not reinstalling kcontrol..
[05:01] <_nate> it works now
[05:01] <_nate> but now my whole kde menu is messed up
[05:01] <_nate> wait, its back
[05:02] <luke> what did you do?
[05:02] <_nate> deleted the kdecache
[05:02] <_nate> and now the admin thing works
[05:02] <luke> ok thats good.
[05:02] <_nate>  /var/tmp/kdecache-<username>/
[05:02] <_nate> just remove that directory and its contents
[05:03] <_nate> i need to remove all these blasted gnome programs
[05:03] <_nate> they clutter my menus
[05:04] <luke> did you "Check the /etc/kde3/kdm/kdmrc file. Somewhere in the file it says "RootLogin" - this should be set to true."
[05:04] <_nate> anyone know what ones I need to remove?
[05:04] <_nate> oh, no
[05:04] <luke> after clearing the cache
[05:04] <_nate> i don't want that
[05:04] <_nate> I can log in using the admin feature now
[05:04] <_nate> Without doing that
[05:04] <_nate> What packages do I need to remove to in effect remove gnome?
[05:05] <luke> whatever you want to
[05:05] <luke> find the command in the kde menu editor, then remove what you want
[05:06] <_nate> ugh, there's so many
[05:06] <_nate> is there a cd that installs kde only from the getgo?
[05:06] <luke> you can download the iso
[05:07] <_nate> just found it, thanks
[05:07] <luke> np
[05:08] <_nate> gonna take a while
[05:08] <_nate> but its worth it
[05:08] <_nate> gnome is poop
[05:08] <luke> too right :D
[05:08] <_nate> i used to like it
[05:09] <luke> never have. you can't really change much
[05:09] <_nate> i like gnome-terminal better than kde's junk
[05:09] <_nate> but thats about it
[05:09] <nmorse> I remember Gnome as Alpha software
[05:09] <nmorse> Too much like ICEwm then
[05:09] <_nate> haha
[05:09] <nmorse> Never usable in the 1.x days
[05:09] <nmorse> The 2.6 and up aren't that bad though, really
[05:09] <_nate> I hated KDE back when I tried FC1
[05:09] <_nate> it was ugly
[05:09] <nmorse> except for using OO.o in
[05:09] <_nate> but NOW its preeeettttty
[05:09] <nmorse> FC1 is ugly
[05:10] <nmorse> FC1 uses its own custom theme called Bluecurve that makes KDE and GNOME look identical
[05:10] <nmorse> And GNOME is ugly
[05:10] <_nate> Yeah, I'd still use OO.o though
[05:10] <nmorse> OO.o-kde maybe
[05:10] <_nate> there's one for kde?
[05:10] <nmorse> I just like the KDE file dialog and the native widgets
[05:10] <luke> using the gnome apps in kde they look like crap
[05:10] <nmorse> Use the Qt-GTK theme
[05:10] <nmorse> It's what I do
[05:11] <sirukin> do so good.
[05:11] <nmorse> openoffice.org-kde is the package to install
[05:11] <nmorse> openoffice.org2-kde exists as well
[05:11] <_nate> are they good?
[05:12] <_nate> wish i could get rid of konquere and make them use krusader in its place
[05:14] <mrmanic> I like konquerer
[05:14] <_nate> buggy poop
[05:14] <_nate> and slow
[05:14] <mrmanic> it works pretty well for me
[05:15] <_nate> try krusader
[05:15] <_nate> its awesome
[05:17] <mrmanic> it doesn't do much for me, honestly
[05:17] <mrmanic> the double-pane browsing thing
[05:17] <_nate> Its efficient
[05:18] <mrmanic> efficient for what?
[05:18] <mrmanic> copying stuff from one place to another?
[05:19] <mrmanic> I do the same thing with multiple panes in konquerer
[05:19] <mrmanic> but it's not the default
[05:19] <mrmanic> which I'm happy with.
[05:19] <nmorse> You know I could grow to like Krusader if it didn't tell me a dir was a dir in little tags
[05:19] <luke> haha
[05:20] <luke> im downloading it now
[05:20] <_nate> ???
[05:20] <nmorse> I don't need a size tag for everything or I'd use screen and ls -l for all file management
[05:20] <nmorse> that's what it looks like
[05:20] <luke> if it doesn't crash whats wrong with it:p
[05:21] <nmorse> Exactly like ls -l in two panes
[05:21] <mrmanic> only clickier.
[05:21] <nmorse> Midnight Commander, if you will
[05:21] <_nate> haha, yeah
[05:21] <_nate> its small and fast
[05:21] <_nate> and its efficient for what i use a file manager for
[05:21] <mrmanic> oh
[05:21] <mrmanic> ok
[05:21] <nmorse> You mean ls -l and cp
[05:22] <nmorse> Spatial browsing would be good for you too
[05:22] <_nate> ??
[05:22] <nmorse> Two little list windows to show the whole hierarchy
[05:22] <nmorse> What do you do anyway?
[05:22] <_nate> I don't use a file manager that much
[05:22] <mrmanic> I do
[05:23] <nmorse> I really don't either
[05:23] <mrmanic> Mostly to preview my 20g of pornographic photos and cartoons.
[05:23] <nmorse> Konsole is all I need
[05:23] <_nate> Mostly cli for me, unless its something annoying to do in the command line
[05:23] <mrmanic> j/k
[05:23] <_nate> heh mrmanic 
[05:23] <mrmanic> cp a lot of random files is a pain.
[05:23] <_nate> yep
[05:23] <nmorse> on 20g, crap what's a big hard drive for then?
[05:23] <_nate> thats what i use it for, mostly
[05:23] <nmorse> s/only/on
[05:24] <mrmanic> haha
[05:24] <_nate> but i rarely have to do that
[05:24] <_nate> I use gnome-terminal
[05:24] <_nate> I don't like konsole
[05:24] <mrmanic> I used to like gnome-terminal a lot
[05:24] <mrmanic> but I came around to konsole
[05:24] <mrmanic> I also read the other day that konsole is more efficient.
[05:25] <luke> how so?
[05:25] <nmorse> Konsole is nice indeed
[05:25] <nmorse> I like the ability to have multiple tabs open, make screen sessions, etc.
[05:26] <_nate> nmorse: multiple tabs is possible in gnometerminal too
[05:26] <_nate> ctrl + shift + t
[05:26] <mrmanic> http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/view/1034
[05:26] <mrmanic> luke: that url explains their methodology.  Not a great test, but fast and simple.
[05:27] <mrmanic> Is there a way to use dcop to type stuff into konsole?
[05:27] <luke> cool 
[05:27] <nmorse> Yeah, but nothing's as nice in gnome-terminal really
[05:28] <nmorse> DCOP stuff in Konsole? Like what?
[05:28] <kkathman> hi all :)
[05:28] <nmorse> hey kkathman
[05:28] <kkathman> hello there :)
[05:29] <mrmanic> hi kkathman 
[05:29] <_nate> awww, tranparent konsole doesn't move the background image till you release
[05:29] <kkathman> howdy mrmanic :)
[05:29] <_nate> not that thats important
[05:29] <_nate> but it was cool in gnome-terminal
[05:29] <mrmanic> nmorse: I want the ability to type something into my mutt session in konsole using dcop
[05:29] <nmorse> Huh?
[05:30] <mrmanic> nmorse: ok, here's the scenario
[05:30] <mrmanic> using korn to check how many new messages I have in various folders
[05:30] <mrmanic> and running mutt in a konsole window
[05:31] <mrmanic> I want to be able to a) figure out which konsole window is the right one and b) have korn make a dcop call when I click on it to switch to the correct desktop and show the konsole window, AND type in the command to show the correct maildir in mutt.
[05:31] <mrmanic> I couldn't figure out how to do that.
[05:31] <mrmanic> I imagine it would probably be a security problem if you could do that.
[05:32] <shiv> hi
[05:32] <shiv> THIS IS THE BEST LINUX EVER
[05:32] <shiv> UNBELIEVABLE
[05:32] <_nate> ooh, i could get used to the double-click for a new tab
[05:32] <kkathman> lol
[05:32] <transgress> umm
[05:32] <transgress> no caps
[05:32] <shiv> I know
[05:32] <kkathman> hey transgress :)
[05:32] <_nate> lol shiv 
[05:32] <shiv> but I want to shout
[05:32] <transgress> awllo\
[05:32] <shiv> I have struggled since last 2 years to find the right one
[05:33] <transgress> 2 years?
[05:33] <shiv> I am using toshiba p35 6091
[05:33] <shiv> 17 inch wide screen
[05:33] <nmorse> Ah, another laptop user who's been won over
[05:33] <shiv> beats windows out of the box
[05:33] <shiv> fonts are amazing
[05:33] <nmorse> I myself have been won over, buy my sound doesn't work
[05:33] <shiv> resoultion is amazing
[05:34] <shiv> my sound doesn't work eitther yet
[05:34] <shiv> but that could be dealt with
[05:34] <shiv> I hae nver seen such clarity ever
[05:34] <nmorse> is it an ali card?
[05:34] <mrmanic> I'm actually not very happy with kubuntu, but that's mostly b/c I can't figure out the correct combination of acpi-support stuff and virgin sacrifice to get my laptop to resume correctly from s3 suspend.
[05:34] <shiv> thats grek to me
[05:35] <_nate> mrmanic: yeah, not a problem for me
[05:35] <nmorse> open Konsole and type lspci | grep ali for me, will you, shiv?
[05:35] <shiv> ok
[05:35] <shiv> is that ali in the end?
[05:35] <nmorse> make that grep ALi
[05:35] <mrmanic> _nate: how not?
[05:36] <nmorse> lspci | grep ALi
[05:36] <nmorse> any output at all, shiv?
[05:37] <shiv> nothing happens
[05:37] <nmorse> thanks anyway
[05:37] <shiv> ?
[05:38] <mr_roboto> mrmanic: same here. i get a black screen trying to wake from suspend. and a crash trying to wake from hibernate on my laptop
[05:38] <shiv> how do i get sound to work though?
[05:38] <nmorse> got to go
[05:39] <mrmanic> mr_roboto: I'm pretty sure my problem is fglrx, but I haven't successfully gotten rid of it :\
[05:39] <mr_roboto> mrmanic: was just thinking of that. i'm using fglrx too and i know someone else installed the default driver for their ati and they were able to suspend.
[05:39] <transgress> huh what about fglrxxxXX?
[05:39] <transgress> err stupid keyboard is acting weird
[05:39] <mr_roboto> i really want it all though, fast 3d and suspend/hibernate
[05:40] <shiv> how do i get to see my fat32 drive?
[05:40] <transgress> mount -t vfat /dev/hda# /mnt/fatcrap
[05:40] <mrmanic> transgress: fglrx is the ati binary driver for their newer cards on linux.
[05:40] <_nate> mrmanic: not a problem for me cuz i don't care to do it
[05:40] <transgress> mrmanic: i know that... what was the problem with it
[05:40] <mrmanic> transgress: I can't get suspend to ram working
[05:41] <mr_roboto> transgress: on a laptop? can you also suspend or hibernate properly?
[05:41] <transgress> umm... i can hibernate... haven't done suspent... and no not on the lappy
[05:41] <transgress> suspend
[05:42] <mrmanic> fglrx on laptops seems to have some serious quirks
[05:42] <transgress> i wish i could get hibernate to work on my lappy... it's got nvidia... 
[05:42] <shiv> where is firefox?
[05:42] <transgress> eh shiv?
[05:42] <mrmanic> shiv: which mozilla-firefox
[05:42] <transgress> firefox doesn't install by default on kubuntu... you can apt it... i didn't because the freaking package was compiled with gnome support
[05:43] <mr_roboto> my laptop would hibernate just fine on Suse 9.1. i'll have to play with it more in ubuntu
[05:43] <mrmanic> if it's not there, 
[05:43] <mrmanic> sudo apt-get install mozilla-firefox
[05:43] <transgress> i think ima put fedora core 4 on my lappy when it's released...
[05:43] <mrmanic> transgress: I found that kinda lame until I got the gtk2-engine-qt
[05:44] <mrmanic> now I'm happy enough b/c it looks like everything else, or close enough.
[05:44] <transgress> mrmanic: i don't like it because it pulls in like 45 megs of gnome crap and i don't want gnome-base on this system... it's why i installed kubuntu and not ubuntu
[05:44] <mrmanic> I see
[05:44] <mrmanic> I have a big HD
[05:44] <mrmanic> and loads of memory
[05:44] <transgress> i have plenty of room
[05:44] <transgress> and plenty of ram
[05:44] <transgress> but it's such a waste and it was ignorant to compile it with gnome support
[05:45] <transgress> that should've been a separate package
[05:45] <Ken-Oh-Ki> Does anyone here know how to configure a PPPOE connection and make it auto-connect?
[05:46] <mrmanic> transgress: perhaps a package like mozilla-firefox-gnome-support?!
[05:47] <transgress> mrmanic: yeah... i know... and i'm also aware it's the same package as mozilla-firefox
[05:47] <mrmanic> lame
[05:47] <mrmanic> I think kubuntu is pretty cool
[05:47] <mrmanic> needs a little polish, though.
[05:47] <transgress> yeah i'm just running the binary off of mozilla.org right now
[05:47] <Ken-Oh-Ki> ???
[05:48] <mrmanic> I just use konquerer most of the time.
[05:48] <transgress> ??? doesn't tell us shit that you're asking
[05:48] <mrmanic> Ken-Oh-Ki: I have no idea
[05:48] <transgress> i use konq for everything but two sites that it won't work with
[05:48] <Ken-Oh-Ki> DAMN! kubuntu messed up my system clock
[05:48] <transgress> umm... how?
[05:49] <Ken-Oh-Ki> this is the problem if linux: until you make it run 100%, it give you tons of headache
[05:50] <kakalto> Ken-Oh-Ki, not linux's problem :)
[05:50] <Ken-Oh-Ki> kkkakaltooo: ...
[05:50] <mrmanic> Ken-Oh-Ki: It's all in how you look at it.  I see it as more of a challenge.
[05:50] <mrmanic> Kinda like whack-a-mole
[05:51] <kakalto> the only way you get a headache in whack-a-mole is to hit yourself in the head :P
[05:51] <Ken-Oh-Ki> in windows I gave 5 clicks and I was online
[05:51] <shiv> it says in kynapti that mozilla is installed i can't find it though..?
[05:51] <Ken-Oh-Ki> in linux I can't even choose pppoe
[05:52] <choop> hello all
[05:52] <kakalto> shiv, go to a terminal and type "mozilla" ?
[05:52] <kakalto> hello, choop 
[05:52] <shiv> comand not found
[05:52] <kakalto> Ken-Oh-Ki, actually, there's a program there somewhere
[05:52] <choop> brand new to linux (other than ssh to webserver stuff) and just about to download kubuntu
[05:52] <choop> was that a good rec?
[05:52] <Ken-Oh-Ki> this is the problem it's always 'somewhere'
[05:52] <kakalto> hehe
[05:52] <Ken-Oh-Ki> cause this linux didn't took over windows yet
[05:52] <mrmanic> Ken-Oh-Ki: try apt-cache search pppoe
[05:53] <Ken-Oh-Ki> 3 years ago was like this
[05:53] <Ken-Oh-Ki> and seem that it will keep all this way
[05:53] <kakalto> Ken-Oh-Ki, google is my best friend. Is google your best friend too?
[05:53] <kakalto> *hint* *hint*
[05:53] <mrmanic> google is my right hand
[05:53] <shiv> firefox
< no... he doesn't find anyshit to me
[05:53] <kakalto> shiv, you installed mozilla-firefox?
[05:53] <shiv> i just installed the CD
[05:53] <shiv> in teh kynaptic it says its there
[05:54] <shiv> already installed
[05:54] <kakalto> shiv, if you want mozilla-firefox, then go to a terminal and type mozilla-firefox
[05:54] <shiv> does not show up in the internet list though
[05:54] <kakalto> that's something different
[05:54] <shiv> same...command not found
[05:54] <kakalto> hmm
[05:54] <mrmanic> then it's not installed
[05:54] <mrmanic> or your paths are hosed
[05:55] <mrmanic> type in sudo apt-get install mozilla-firefox
[05:55] <mr_roboto> apt-get or kynaptic should have put it in /usr/bin though
[05:55] <shiv> Package mozilla-firefox is not available, but is referred to by another package.
[05:55] <shiv> This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
[05:55] <shiv> is only available from another source
[05:55] <mrmanic> from everything I've read kynaptic is a bit buggy.
[05:55] <mrmanic> !
[05:55] <mrmanic> odd
[05:56] <shiv> Package mozilla-firefox has no installation candidate
[05:56] <shiv> what does that mean?
[05:56] <mrmanic> means you're hitting the wrong apt repositories
[05:57] <shiv> do i need to set them up manually?
[05:57] <mrmanic> I do not remember
[05:57] <mrmanic> I did.
[05:58] <mrmanic> I would sudo vi /etc/apt/sources.list and comment out the CD source, and then sudo apt-get update and try again
[06:00] <shiv> how do i comment out the cd source? what commands
[06:00] <shiv> I am new
[06:00] <shiv> Microsoft slave :(
[06:00] <mrmanic> oh
[06:00] <mrmanic> the # sign is the comment character
[06:01] <mrmanic> once you get into vi, you'll need to type "i" to get into insert mode, which will allow you to edit the text.
[06:01] <choop> but first navigate to that line
[06:01] <choop> before you type "i" use "j" to go down one line at a time
[06:02] <mrmanic> oh, I just use the arrow keys to move around.
[06:02] <mrmanic> but good call
[06:02] <choop> well, there's that too. i'm so used to vi over ssh (putty, doesn't support arrow keys) that i always use hjkl
[06:03] <mrmanic> oh, gotcha
[06:03] <mrmanic> I had the same problem with vi on solaris, IIRC
[06:03] <choop> i'm a newbie to desktop linux, though, and will probably be installing kubuntu tonight if it downloads fast enough
[06:04] <mrmanic> word
[06:04] <choop> good call? should i go with a different distro first?
[06:04] <_nate> gnite
[06:04] <mrmanic> kubuntu is kinda cool
[06:04] <_nate_sleeping> kubuntu is pimp
[06:04] <choop> i've no doubt it's both cool and pimp.
[06:04] <mrmanic> I don't think it's quite ready for prime time.
[06:05] <_nate_sleeping> meh, its better than regular ubuntu IMO
[06:05] <_nate_sleeping> But I'm not a typical user
[06:05] <choop> is it right for someone so new to desktop linux? the wife doesn't know the difference between linux and macOS, so i also have to consider her needs.
[06:05] <_nate_sleeping> choop: ubuntu is more developed, if you wanna go the safe route
[06:06] <mrmanic> _nate_sleeping: I came straight from debian unstable (with my own personal mods)
[06:06] <_nate_sleeping> mrmanic: ha
[06:06] <choop> and then this problem: i have knoppix on a liveCD and introduced her to the main paradigms of KDE
[06:06] <mrmanic> I was pretty happy with it, but wanted to try this thing people were raving about.
[06:06] <_nate_sleeping> choop: gnome isn't so different that she won't be able to get it
[06:06] <choop> that's what i was worried about
[06:07] <_nate_sleeping> choop: comparitively the same
[06:07] <_nate_sleeping> choop: and more stable for typical desktop use, IMO
[06:07] <mrmanic> choop: if you want to go with kde, kubuntu will probably be fine.
[06:07] <choop> gnome looks more like mac, kde more like windows
[06:07] <mrmanic> there are a few annoying quirks about kubuntu, but no real showstoppers that I've found.
[06:07] <_nate_sleeping> choop: but kubuntu isn't really "unstable" in the truest sense, it just has a few quirks
[06:07] <shiv> no luck
[06:07] <shiv> :(
[06:08] <choop> she's aware that the next couple weeks are going to be volatile as far as the OS goes.
[06:08] <_nate_sleeping> mrmanic: quirks for us = OH MAN SOMETHINGS BROKEN
[06:08] <_nate_sleeping> for others
[06:08] <_nate_sleeping> choop: get macosx theme for gnome
[06:08] <_nate_sleeping> choop: it looks exactly like it
[06:08] <_nate_sleeping> more or less
[06:08] <choop> neither of us is a mac user.
[06:09] <_nate_sleeping> oh, thought she new MacOS
[06:09] <choop> *that* is what i'm worried about
[06:09] <_nate_sleeping> oh, once you get everything installed that you're gonna use, its easy as pie
[06:09] <choop> no, she doesn't know the difference between mac and linux, because we've been win2k for years
[06:10] <_nate_sleeping> most linux users like to fiddle and try things and change all the time though
[06:10] <_nate_sleeping> so thats when linux gets more difficult to use
[06:10] <choop> took me months to get windows the way i liked it. i imagine it's going to be a lot of fun getting linux to the same point
[06:10] <mrmanic> choop: that's the right attitude
[06:10] <mrmanic> choop: I did the same thing
[06:11] <_nate_sleeping> choop: yeah, you won't stop, it'll get really addicting.  Your wife is gonna miss you
[06:11] <choop> well, i've been exposed to linux for a few years, but only on the web servers at my offices
[06:11] <_nate_sleeping> choop: mine does
[06:11] <choop> heh
[06:11] <mrmanic> choop: tried windowblinds, litestep, etc, trying to get windows working just right.  then I realized what I really wanted was linux.
[06:11] <choop> plus, my dad's an instructor for IBM: both aix and redhat
[06:11] <_nate_sleeping> mrmanic: so true, so true
[06:12] <choop> mrmanic: tried all those. i'm sure linux is what i'm looking for.
[06:12] <_nate_sleeping> choop: well, you picked a good version of linux to start with
[06:12] <choop> i just need an easy and reliable distro
[06:12] <_nate_sleeping> choop: I started with Fedora Core 1, and man oh man was that a nightmare
[06:12] <choop> should i mention that i've been a slashdot lurker since like 98?
[06:12] <_nate_sleeping> lol
[06:12] <mrmanic> debian-based distros are easy and often reliable.
[06:12] <choop> i heard fc1 was terrible
[06:12] <_nate_sleeping> and you haven't used linux?
[06:12] <_nate_sleeping> i wanna try gentoo
[06:12] <_nate_sleeping> for the challenge
[06:13] <choop> no. never had the space or ability to make a dual-boot system, nor the opportunity to move from windows
[06:13] <_nate_sleeping> ahh, i see
[06:13] <choop> now that i'm consulting, however, and have a laptop given me by the company i contract to... :D
[06:13] <mrmanic> choop: I'd recommend giving kubuntu a try.  Either kubuntu or linspire.
[06:14] <Ken-Oh-Ki> How to share my connection?
[06:14] <choop> well, i've already downloaded 160M of the AMD install iso
[06:15] <choop> lord i wish i had a beer
[06:15] <mrmanic> Ken-Oh-Ki: if you don't get any answers, try googling.  
[06:15] <mrmanic> Ken-Oh-Ki: that's what I do, it works great for me.
[06:15] <choop> or try #ubuntu
[06:15] <_nate_sleeping> Ken-Oh-Ki: Wish I could help
[06:16] <choop> i couldn't get knoppix to recognize my ethernet card. it could see it, but it couldn't use it.
[06:16] <choop> any ideas?
[06:16] <kakalto> driver?
[06:16] <choop> i might have to go through the same thing with kubuntu...
[06:16] <choop> running off liveCD, couldn't get the driver
[06:16] <kakalto> I tried knoppix, but it didn't have the driver for my ethernet card, so I couldn't get internet
[06:17] <choop> no network connection, couldn't apt-get
[06:17] <choop> rock>me>hardplace
[06:18] <choop> how's kubuntu's list of drivers?
[06:18] <choop> funny thing is, it's an 8139, and modprobe 8139too didn't see it
[06:18] <choop> look at me talking like i know what i'm saying
[06:18] <mrmanic> nice
[06:18] <choop> i had some fantastic help in the #knoppix channel
[06:18] <mrmanic> way to talk the talk
[06:18] <choop> heh
[06:18] <Ken-Oh-Ki> mrmanic: Im doind it...
[06:19] <mrmanic> it works in windows?
[06:19] <choop> yep.
[06:19] <choop> win2k, no extra driver disk
[06:19] <mrmanic> odd
[06:19] <mrmanic> I would have figured the driver would be in the kernal
[06:19] <mrmanic> er
[06:19] <mrmanic> kernel
[06:19] <choop> i think it's manufactured by the "Generic" company
[06:19] <mrmanic> ha
[06:19] <Ken-Oh-Ki> What "sudo iptables -t nat -L" should do?
[06:19] <choop> they make a lot of stuff!
[06:20] <_nate_sleeping> sometimes stuff doesn't work on the live cd but works on the full install, just something i've experienced
[06:20] <Ken-Oh-Ki> mmm
[06:21] <_nate_sleeping> seriously, i need to go to bed
[06:21] <_nate_sleeping> gnite
[06:23] <mrmanic> choop: you might need to mess with some of the module configuration files to get the module to load 
[06:23] <mrmanic> I need to go to bed too
[06:23] <Ken-Oh-Ki> What "sudo iptables -t nat -L" should do?
[06:26] <Ken-Oh-Ki> ....
[06:26] <Ken-Oh-Ki> I think I'll go sleep
[06:26] <choop> they've gone to bed. i'm a noob. try google, and good luck.
[06:27] <choop> goodnight
[06:34] <bisley> hi
[06:35] <kakalto> yo
[06:35] <bisley> anyone have problems with source http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hoary-security
[06:35] <bisley> ?
[06:36] <bisley> sometimes apt-get update report bzip failed and others say md5sum seems different
[06:36] <bisley> or something like this
[06:38] <luke> do you need the source repositries?
[06:38] <bisley> hmm
[06:38] <bisley> if you have good repositories? send me ;)
[06:39] <luke> just don't use the source repositries. thats what I do
[06:40] <bisley> hmm
[06:41] <bisley> really dont use source repositories, i mean deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hoary-security main restricted multiverse universe
[06:41] <bisley> for binaries not sources
[06:41] <luke> aye?
[06:42] <bisley> i try to explain that apt-get update cannot download Packages.gz from security.ubuntu.com main
[06:43] <bisley> because says that md5sum is different
[06:43] <bisley> anyone have the same issue?
[06:48] <luke> guess not. try in ubuntu
[06:48] <bisley> k
[06:48] <bisley> thanx
[06:49] <gp_aaron> installing kunbuntu-desktop ontop of ubuntu will not replace gnome correct?
[06:49] <gp_aaron> i will have kde and gnome?
[06:50] <luke> thats right
[06:50] <gp_aaron> and it is kde 3.4
[06:50] <gp_aaron> ?
[06:50] <luke> yup
[06:50] <gp_aaron> nice
[06:50] <gp_aaron> thanks
[06:57] <Diablo-D3> hrm
[06:57] <Diablo-D3> I wonder what the name of the programming meta package is
[07:01] <kakalto> ?
[07:01] <Diablo-D3> ??
[07:03] <kakalto> hehe
[07:06] <Diablo-D3> theres a meta package that requires gcc, make, autotools, etc
[07:06] <Diablo-D3> and I cant remember the name of it is
[07:10] <transgress> build-essential
[07:11] <transgress> hey luke can you do me a favor and tell Diablo-D3 i said it's build-essential or build-essentials
[07:11] <luke> ok, but why can't you
[07:12] <transgress> he has me on ignore
[07:12] <transgress> because i told him what a dipshit asshat he was
[07:12] <luke>  Diablo-D3: transgress said it's build-essential or build-essentials
[07:12] <transgress> thanks
[07:13] <luke> no problem:)
[07:54] <luke> how can I restart klauncher?
[07:55] <transgress> klauncher & ?
[07:55] <transgress> after killall klauncher
[07:56] <luke> it says it's started automatically by kdeinit
[07:58] <transgress> restart kdeinit then
[07:58] <Diablo-D3> something involving dcopsomething
[08:00] <luke> yeah thats the one diablo-d3
[08:00] <transgress> not to mention you really suck.
[08:01] <luke> is there a command that will show me the processors?
[08:01] <transgress> ps aux
[08:01] <transgress> wait processors or processes?
[08:01] <Diablo-D3> cat /sys/cpuinfo ?
[08:02] <luke> is there a command that will show me the processes
[08:02] <transgress> cat /proc/cpuinfo
[08:02] <Diablo-D3> er, /proc/cpuinfo
[08:02] <transgress> yeah that's ps aux
[08:02] <transgress> or pstree -p is handier
[08:02] <Diablo-D3> ps ax?
[08:02] <luke> ok thanks
[08:02] <luke> wait I'll just restart my desktop..
[08:02] <Diablo-D3> theres always that
[08:02] <Diablo-D3> afk
[08:06] <luke> ok, so I just killed all my kde config I think
[08:06] <luke> lol
[08:07] <transgress> how'd you do that?
[08:07] <kakalto> ?
[08:07] <transgress> i killed a midget once
[08:08] <luke> I didn't kill it I just moved everything in my home directory into my desktop folder, even the hidden files
[08:08] <transgress> killall midget
[08:08] <luke> lol
[08:08] <transgress> oh god
[08:08] <transgress> that has to suck
[08:08] <luke> I'll brb
[08:14] <luke> ok all beter. 
[08:15] <luke> in control center > system admin > paths > autostart path, whats the right dir for that?
[08:15] <transgress> /home/transgress/.kde/Autostart/
[08:15] <luke> cool thans
[09:08] <\sh> morning
[09:11] <luke_> evening
[09:12] <snowcrash> hi
[09:13] <snowcrash> java works fine now as well :)
[09:13] <luke_> java on firefox?
[09:17] <snowcrash> java 1.5
[09:17] <snowcrash> yeah on firefox as well 
[09:17] <snowcrash> i had some problems with it yesterday
[09:17] <snowcrash> but found a solution 
[09:18] <snowcrash> but now i have to install j2me :/
[09:18] <luke_> ok. how do you get java working on firefox? it doesn't for me, and it wont install the plugin
[09:20] <kakalto> could anyone help? I need a particular dev package for compiling something, but I can't find the package in any repos, on google or anything
[09:22] <snowcrash> luke it just installed the plug in 
[09:22] <snowcrash> i mean i installed one 
[09:22] <snowcrash> seperate one 
[09:22] <snowcrash> found it in the multiverse i guess
[09:23] <luke_> what was the name of the package you installed?
[09:24] <snowcrash> gcjwebplugin
[09:25] <luke_> great, thanks
[09:26] <snowcrash> hmm i renamed the j2me.... --- .bin 
[09:26] <snowcrash> to j2me.bin 
[09:26] <snowcrash> then i started the console with sudo j2me.bin 
[09:26] <snowcrash> is that right to execute the .bin ?
[09:27] <luke_> don't know
[09:28] <snowcrash> i need to make it executeable before right ?
[09:33] <snowcrash> how can i start a .bin ?
[09:34] <kakalto> "./program.bin", isn't it?
[09:34] <kakalto> from the folder it's in
[09:34] <snowcrash> doesnt work 
[09:34] <snowcrash> it says 
[09:35] <snowcrash> its no problem if i rename it, isnt it ?
[09:37] <snowcrash> well it says bash: j2me.bin: command not found
[09:45] <Jd101> anybody knows if kubuntu will get kde 3.4.x bug fix releases? ( kde 3.4.1 , kde 3.4.2 ...)
[09:45] <snowcrash> snowcrash@ubuntu:~/download$ /j2me.bin
[09:45] <snowcrash> bash: /j2me.bin: No such file or directory
[09:51] <snowcrash> hmm strange :) 
[09:55] <snowcrash> ah 
[09:55] <snowcrash> its ./j2me.bin
[09:55] <snowcrash> ;)
[09:55] <snowcrash> damn 
[09:58] <snowcrash> whats the difference between ./ and plain /
[09:58] <AzMoo> snowcrash, ./ means current directory, / means root directory.
[09:59] <snowcrash> ah damn yes
[09:59] <snowcrash> ok thnx :) 
[09:59] <snowcrash> well im new to linux 
[09:59] <AzMoo> :)
[09:59] <snowcrash> hum now it wants to know where it installed the jvm 
[10:00] <snowcrash> is there a system search 
[10:00] <snowcrash> its not in usr
[10:02] <snowcrash> hmm ok grep 
[10:13] <AzMoo> Hey. Everytime I try to compile a KDE theme, I'm getting the error: "checking for libz... configure: error: not found." Anyone know how to get around this?
[10:16] <\sh> AzMoo: install the kde* devpackages
[10:24] <AzMoo> \sh, cheers
[10:24] <\sh> AzMoo: but you should think about a pbuilder env or chroot env for compiling stuff
[10:25] <AzMoo> \sh, why's that?
[10:32] <\sh> AzMoo: u don't want to screw your productive system :)
[11:04] <F_for_Fragging> can someone help me with this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=33528 -> how do i reset alsa and arts to their original/default settings?
[11:18] <F_for_Fragging> hello, is anyone here alive?
[12:00] <luke> how can you make java work on firefox?
[12:00] <Tm_T> ehh
[12:00] <Tm_T> easily
[12:01] <Tm_T> just install JRE _correctly_ and that's it
[12:01] <luke> JRE?
[12:02] <Kejk_PL> I found deb packges, w8 a minute
[12:03] <Tm_T> luke: Java Runtime Environment
[12:03] <luke> ok
[12:04] <Tm_T> luke: same thing what you have to do in windows
[12:04] <luke> how do I install JRE?
[12:04] <Tm_T> ehm, donwload package from sun.com and run it
[12:06] <Tm_T> http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/download.jsp
[12:06] <luke> great, thanks
[12:08] <luke> which one should I download for kubuntu?
[12:09] <Kejk_PL> ftp://ftp.cica.es/pub/java-linux/debian/
[12:09] <Kejk_PL> ftp://ftp.uk.linux.org/pub/linux/java/debian/
[12:11] <Tm_T> :)
[12:11] <Kejk_PL> add tis tou your /etc/apt/sources.conf:
[12:11] <Tm_T> that's one way to do it
[12:11] <Kejk_PL> deb ftp://ftp.uk.linux.org/pub/linux/java/debian/ sarge non-free
[12:12] <Tm_T> Kejk_PL: you mean sources.list?
[12:12] <Kejk_PL> tm_t, yes :-)
[12:12] <Tm_T> :)
[12:12] <Tm_T> hmm, still 1.0.2 ...
[12:13] <Kejk_PL> I found somewhere 1.5 JRE, but don't remember where...
[12:13] <Tm_T> :)
[12:15] <verden01> Hey
[12:15] <Kejk_PL> http://www.kofeina.net/eloy/debian/
[12:15] <Kejk_PL> there are
[12:15] <verden01> has anyone with an aaAMD64 got chrot working?
[12:15] <Tm_T> hullo there
[12:16] <verden01> Hi Tm_T 
[12:16] <verden01> chroot
[12:22] <luke> from http://www.kofeina.net/eloy/debian/ what should I download for kubuntu?
[12:24] <verden01> i'm guessing jre
[12:24] <verden01> but i'm probably wrong
[12:24] <luke> theres no file called jre
[12:24] <verden01> sun jre??
[12:25] <luke> sun-j2sdk1.5_1.5.0?
[12:25] <verden01> yeah
[01:00] <brosio> how could i play mpc file  ?
[01:00] <incubii> whats an mpc file
[01:01] <Tm_T> if it's file, mplayer plays it
[01:01] <Diablo-D3> brosio: you cant
[01:01] <Diablo-D3> mplayer does now?
[01:01] <Tm_T> can't say it plays it correctly though
[01:01] <Tm_T> well, mplayer "player" plays anything
[01:02] <Tm_T> ...
[01:02] <Tm_T> "plays"
[01:02] <Diablo-D3> that made zero sense
[01:02] <Tm_T> yes, fully nonsense
[01:02] <brosio> mplayer
[01:02] <brosio> not works
[01:02] <Tm_T> hmm, I forgot my morning pills
[01:02] <Diablo-D3> brosio: there are no mpc players for linux
[01:05] <brosio> mpcsv7-src-1.15v.tar.bz2
[01:05] <brosio> lib for xmms
[01:05] <brosio> :D
[01:06] <Diablo-D3> heh
[01:06] <Diablo-D3> afk
[02:08] <_buz> maybe i'm somewhat stupid but  i can't find the key combination for insert->object->formula in OO 1.1
[02:09] <KaiL_> is there one?
[02:11] <_buz> i'd be quite pissed if there wasnt
[02:11] <_buz> as i'm trying to write something with lots of formulas
[02:11] <_buz> maybe i should use lyx
[02:14] <_buz> maybe i'll define my own ;)
[02:20] <_buz> yaeh that works
[03:00] <da_bon_bon> hi
[03:00] <da_bon_bon> anyone from india here ?
[03:09] <rohan> anyone from india here ?
[03:12] <TheLegacy> i'm planning to install kubuntu next friday on my system. Does it support ATI's x800 chipset?
[03:15] <KaiL> at least 2D works
[03:16] <_buz> there should be some binary drivers for 3d support
[03:16] <_buz> them radeons basically got the same driver across them all
[03:16] <TheLegacy> i bought this nifty x800xt card, so i thought it would be a waste if it didn't support it :)
[03:16] <_buz> it's a waste on linux anyway
[03:16] <TheLegacy> why
[03:16] <_buz> little amount of games to use it
[03:16] <KaiL> X800 != X800XT afair
[03:17] <KaiL> at least the "normal" X800 is supported
[03:17] <_buz> then the XT should wokr as well
[03:18] <KaiL> "X800 XL" was the problematic one
[03:18] <TheLegacy> _buz, got a license of Cedega => games on linux
[03:18] <Tm_Nuada> hullo
[03:18] <_buz> does that stuff really work that well
[03:18] <TheLegacy> i heard it does
[03:18] <_buz> impressive if you think about it
[03:18] <TheLegacy> http://transgaming.org/gamesdb/
[03:19] <TheLegacy> supported games
[03:19] <TheLegacy> :)
[03:20] <KaiL> X800 XT is AGP?
[03:20] <_buz> i think the X series are all pciE
[03:20] <KaiL> nop
[03:21] <KaiL> 400-500 EUR fr a graphics card.....
[03:21] <TheLegacy> AGP it is
[03:21] <TheLegacy> paid 460
[03:21] <_buz> enough crazy people with too much money ;)
[03:21] <TheLegacy> :)
[03:22] <KaiL> _buz: they only had to much before
[03:22] <TheLegacy> spoiled myself with a new system
[03:22] <KaiL> what do you call new?
[03:23] <Tm_Nuada> wawaw
[03:23] <TheLegacy> athlon64 3500+, 2GB dual channel, sata hd's, benq 19" FP937s+
[03:23] <TheLegacy> it was new 1.5 months ago :)
[03:23] <KaiL> ...and an Asrock-Board below *fg*
[03:24] <_buz> mhh i just got an 3000+
[03:24] <_buz> and will get the asus a8v for it
[03:24] <_buz> (gigabyte nforce3 sucked donkey ass)
[03:26] <TheLegacy> mine's the ASUS A8V del sckt 939
[03:26] <KaiL> << Asus K8N-E Deluxe
[03:26] <_buz> TheLegacy: what cooler did you put on it?
[03:26] <_buz> does it have screw mounts for big coolers?
[03:26] <TheLegacy> nothing fancy so long
[03:26] <_buz> the gigabyte doesnt
[03:27] <_buz> which is why i send it back
[03:27] <_buz> i want to use my thermaltake sonictower
[03:27] <_buz> after all
[03:27] <TheLegacy> i stuffed it with 4 fans (2 in, 2 out) and MB has a constant 19C
[03:27] <TheLegacy> CPU 27C
[03:27] <KaiL> what noise is that?
[03:27] <TheLegacy> nothing :)
[03:28] <_buz> 4 fans? crazy
[03:28] <TheLegacy> chieftec maxi matrix case, good isolation
[03:28] <KaiL> <<36C for around everything - and only a very very slow rotating CPU fan
[03:28] <_buz> mine is gonna have 2 at the very most 
[03:28] <_buz> no cpu fan
[03:28] <TheLegacy> lol
[03:28] <_buz> cpu easily stays below 50 in a friends machine with similar setup
[03:28] <KaiL> I don't belive, that your system ist silent
[03:28] <_buz> i'm fine with <65
[03:29] <TheLegacy> planning on buying the thermaltake aquarius III liquid cooling set
[03:29] <KaiL> why that?
[03:29] <_buz> i dont want water in my machine
[03:29] <_buz> if i would, i'd get the zalman reserator
[03:29] <KaiL> overclocking to 4GHz? ;)
[03:29] <TheLegacy> it's a nice box, and after reading some reviews, the results are all around 20C - 25C
[03:30] <_buz> wtf would anyone care to cool their cpu to room temperature
[03:30] <_buz> they work perfectly well at 60
[03:30] <TheLegacy> :)
[03:30] <TheLegacy> i'm a temp-freak
[03:30] <_buz> i'm a silence freak :;)
[03:30] <TheLegacy> i can't hear my case :)
[03:30] <KaiL> mute your music, then you can
[03:30] <TheLegacy> :D
[03:31] <TheLegacy> soit, see you guys later maybe
[03:31] <TheLegacy> go to go
[03:31] <TheLegacy> t
[03:31] <KaiL> << bequiet-Power supply, disables case fan, cpu fan *should* not work (but seams to do very slow), no other fans
[03:33] <_buz> mhh i want a seasonic ss400
[03:33] <_buz> but it doesnt ship in ch
[03:33] <_buz> maybe i'll get the etasis fanless cpu
[03:34] <_buz> psu i mean
[03:35] <KaiL> they aren't always silent (brummmmmmm)
[03:36] <_buz> most are
[03:36] <_buz> if they aren't, it's a rma
[03:37] <_buz> i'm not paying 110? for a NOT silent psu
[03:38] <_buz> maybe we'll get this one? http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/05/12/1153218&from=rss
[03:39] <_buz> 1.0.3 didn't get released even tho its security related
[03:41] <KaiL> the fixes are all in a patched one on hoary-security
[03:41] <_buz> mhh what version number does it sport
[03:42] <KaiL> 1.0.2-ubuntu5.1 or so
[03:42] <_buz> mhh i think its kinda weird to backport such stuff
[03:46] <crimsun> most of the time it's far easier to backport fixes than to introduce a newer version of a package, since the newer version may (usually?) contains new regressions
[04:16] <StR> Hi all
[04:16] <StR> anyone here with breezy?
[04:20] <StR> is there anyone here?
[04:21] <\sh> ?
[04:37] <StR> ahhh!!!  I broke my kde packages.... stupid breezy
[04:38] <StR> I get this error....  how can I fix it?
[04:38] <StR>   libdbus-1-1: Conflicts: dbus-1 but 0.23.4-0ubuntu3 is to be installed
[04:45] <Riddell> StR: change it to libdbus-qt-1-dev in debian/control
[04:45] <StR> Riddell: where is that?
[04:45] <Riddell> wait and I might fix it for you :)
[04:46] <StR> Riddell: how can you fix it for me?
[04:46] <Riddell> I might upload a new kdebase, but actually I probably can't if the C++ transition is under way
[04:47] <StR> Riddell: what C++ transition?
[04:48] <StR> Riddell: dou yo make the kdebase package?
[04:48] <Riddell> I make kubuntu
[04:48] <Riddell> the C++ transition to GCC 4
[04:49] <ChaoticCoyote> Riddell: Is kubuntu moving to GCC 4?
[04:49] <StR> Riddell: I'm using breezy, but yesterday, I did a dist-upgrade, and my kubuntu-desktop and the konqueror packages were removed
[04:50] <crimsun> ChaoticCoyote: breezy already uses gcc 4.0, the transition that begins next week is to g++ 4.0
[04:50] <sproingie> ARGH.  dbus upgrade is NOT what i would call graceful
[04:50] <sproingie> clusterfuck of dependency hell
[04:50] <ChaoticCoyote> crimsun: You guys might want to wait for 4.0.1. There are some nasty bugs and perfromance regressions in 4.0.0.
[04:51] <crimsun> ChaoticCoyote: never fear, there are competents gcc hackers behind the migration
[04:51] <crimsun> competent, rather
[04:51] <Riddell> ChaoticCoyote: it's a cvs version of gcc 4
[04:51] <ChaoticCoyote> crimsun: That's good.
[04:51] <ChaoticCoyote> Riddell: Smart move.
[04:52] <Tm_T> hello Riddell 
[04:52] <ChaoticCoyote> 4.0 is going to be great, but the initial release was a bit wonky.
[04:52] <sproingie> it's a .0 release, naturally
[04:53] <sproingie> i take it not everything has been migrated to dbus-1?
[04:58] <Riddell> hello Tm_T 
[05:00] <Tm_T> Riddell: have you noticed that there's no way to apt-get pyKDE ?
[05:00] <Tm_T> python2.3-kde3: Depends: python2.3-qt3 (< 3.13) but 3.13-4ubuntu2 is to be installed
[05:01] <StR> Riddell: my kde does not work now... I don't want to shut down my kde, because I think it will not get up...
[05:01] <StR> Riddell: how can I fix it?
[05:01] <Tm_T> =)
[05:01] <Riddell> StR: downgrade to hoary?
[05:02] <_buz> not gonna work
[05:02] <_buz> your system won't boot 
[05:02] <_robin> how can I mount an external usb hard disk?
[05:02] <_buz> if you do the apt pinning approach anyway
[05:02] <_robin> my system put the icon on m desktop, and I can see the root folders in it, but cannot go further.
[05:02] <Riddell> Tm_T: yeah, it's broken.  hopefully \sh will have it all fixed up soon enough
[05:03] <StR> Riddell: how do I do that:   vim /etc/apt/sources.list  &&  :%s/breezy/hoarry && apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade  ?
[05:03] <Riddell> StR: don't think dist-upgrade will work, apt-get install kdebase might
[05:03] <Riddell> StR: but if you wait a bit I should have kdebase packages for you
[05:03] <_robin> err well, it does seem to be mountain, as in it's in my media directory, but as soon as I try to go into a directory, it locks.. (or at least doesn't respond)
[05:04] <_robin> it doesn't even respond to a ctrl-c
[05:04] <StR> Riddell: thanks, I will wait.....
[05:04] <sproingie> is it the dbus upgrade that's caused the breakage in breezy?  not everything migrated yet?
[05:05] <Tm_T> Riddell: thanks, that is great news :)
[05:06] <_robin> anyone?
[05:10] <Ken-OhKi> Can someone help me with some connection sharing things?
[05:11] <guinsel>  /quit
[05:13] <Ken-OhKi> ...
[05:28] <Ken-Oh-Ki> Can someone help me with a nat configuration?
[05:29] <Ken-Oh-Ki> Where are my games? XD
[05:29] <men1> out there at the nearby playground
[05:30] <Ken-Oh-Ki> Damnit >_<
[05:32] <Riddell> StR: deb http://dev.kubuntu.org.uk/~jr/kubuntu/breezy/ ./
[05:32] <Ken-Oh-Ki> how do I put the kubuntu games in the "start menu"?
[05:32] <Tm_T> Ken-Oh-Ki: use kappfinder
[05:33] <Tm_T> Ken-Oh-Ki: and its K-menu ;p
[05:34] <Ken-Oh-Ki> no game listed...
[05:34] <Tm_T> you tried kappfinder?
[05:34] <Ken-Oh-Ki> yeah
[05:34] <Ken-Oh-Ki> eyes working XD
[05:35] <Tm_T> \o/
[05:35] <Ken-Oh-Ki> but only this
[05:35] <Tm_T> and you can allways add manually
[05:35] <Tm_T> -l
[05:35] <Tm_T> sticky fingers
[05:38] <Anglophobe> I can't seem to use any kde apps that need root. it keeps rejecting my root password.
[05:38] <Ken-Oh-Ki> You'll need to change some config
[05:38] <Anglophobe> which one?
[05:38] <Ken-Oh-Ki> go to /etc/kde3/kdm/kdmrc
[05:38] <Ken-Oh-Ki> edit it
[05:39] <Ken-Oh-Ki> find allowrootlogin (something like this) and set true
[05:39] <Ken-Oh-Ki> then you can log in kde with root and do whatever you want
[05:39] <Ken-Oh-Ki> even f*ck your install
[05:40] <nanomad> lol...i think breezy is broken now, isnt it?
[05:40] <Ken-Oh-Ki> O.o I left the server
[05:41] <Tm_T> heh
[05:41] <Ken-Oh-Ki> Is squid a proxy program?
[05:42] <Anglophobe> my internet on linus also seems to be really slow. any reason why that could be?
[05:42] <Anglophobe> err linux
[05:49] <srichter> hello everyone; kubuntu does not seem to have any of the setup programs that ubuntu comes with, because they are GNome-based
[05:49] <srichter> what do I need to install to get these setup tools?
[05:50] <nanomad> kontrol center isnt useful to u?
[05:50] <Tm_T> wtf gimp crashed
[05:50] <srichter> no
[05:50] <srichter> I need to manage network connections, X configuration, etc.
[05:51] <srichter> the type of stuff you would find in drakconf or yast2, for example
[05:51] <srichter> I already saw that kynaptic is installed, which is nice
[05:51] <nanomad> just look in kontrol center ---> internet....
[05:52] <srichter> ok will do (cannot do this right now, since this is a computer for friend)
[05:52] <srichter> thanks for the help
[05:52] <nanomad> np
[06:14] <hunger> Riddell: Big probs with the new kdebase... or better with the new dbus.
[06:15] <hunger> I strongly recommend against logging out after the upgrade...
[06:16] <NTolerance> anyone know how to enable mouseover effects on the taskbar?
[06:16] <NTolerance> i know that it's possible because i had it working on my last install...but i can't find a setting for it
[07:11] <TheLegacy> hidiehow :)
[07:26] <_piotr> hi all
[07:27] <_piotr> anybody around from poland
[07:28] <_piotr> konqueror doesnt display polish signs properly
[07:28] <_piotr> is it a lack of fonts or a problem with konqueror?
[07:28] <TheLegacy> think it's a font problem?
[07:28] <KaiL> _piotr: in filenames or in menues?
[07:30] <_piotr> KaL: on websites
[07:30] <KaiL> hmm
[07:30] <KaiL> that shouldn't happen
[07:31] <_piotr> some are alright some are not
[07:34] <emmanuel> dude, why KDE 3.4 break everything???!?!
[07:34] <KaiL> try to set a different font as default, maybe there's just one, which doesn't want
[07:34] <NTolerance> wow
[07:34] <NTolerance> maybe it's just because i haven't reinstalled everything
[07:34] <NTolerance> but my new Kubuntu install is much better
[07:34] <NTolerance> no problems yet with klaptop
[07:34] <KaiL> emmanuel: loke what?
[07:34] <Tm_T> hullo folks
[07:34] <_piotr> KaiL: ok. under konqueror configuration? or under the whole system
[07:34] <KaiL> like..
[07:34] <NTolerance> or firefox closing when i change the background...
[07:34] <KaiL> _piotr: konq
[07:34] <emmanuel> KaiL, all icons in tackbar missing
[07:34] <NTolerance> seems like after the kdelibs bug hits you it might be best to format
[07:35] <KaiL> http://moba.linuxfaqs.de/kdelibs-debug.sh << NTolerance, or use this script :)
[07:35] <KaiL> same for emmanuel  :)
[07:35] <NTolerance> i did
[07:35] <NTolerance> but my install was still borked afterwards...had lots of problems
[07:35] <emmanuel> KaiL, but it is already broken!  wtf, everything has been broken
[07:35] <NTolerance> maybe it was another application...i hope not
[07:36] <emmanuel> i cant go back, is there sytem restore for Kubuntu?
[07:36] <KaiL> emmanuel: and this fixes everything
[07:36] <KaiL> (except the icons in the panel, you need to fix them manually)
[07:36] <emmanuel> KaiL, even if my icons are already gone?
[07:36] <emmanuel> thats dumb -- is there a way to avoid that?
[07:37] <KaiL> get somebody to upload a kdelibs package, which does NOT delete /etc/kderc :)
[07:37] <KaiL> kdelibs4 to be exact
[07:38] <_piotr> KaiL: do you mean to set another standard font? cause this doesnt change it anyway
[07:38] <KaiL> _piotr: yes, hoped to
[07:38] <_piotr> the font..
[07:38] <emmanuel> KaiL, where is Sytem Restore!?!?!
[07:38] <emmanuel> i want to go back to before it broke
[07:38] <KaiL> the script is (more or less)
[07:39] <_piotr> besides that its nice
[07:39] <emmanuel> KaiL, it is asking for CD, dont have it
[07:39] <_piotr> only it would be nice if the installation configured fstab automatically
[07:39] <_piotr> its ages ago when I changed that manually :D
[07:39] <KaiL> emmanuel: comment out the first line in /etc/apt/sources.list
[07:40] <KaiL> _piotr: planned for next version :)
[07:40] <emmanuel> KaiL, where is System Restore?
[07:40] <_piotr> KaiL: so shall I fill a bug in regard of the font problem.. I will try some texts under openoffice first
[07:41] <KaiL> _piotr: uhm, yes
[07:41] <_piotr> KaiL: but I didnt install any polish packages cause Im here in Vienna and using german as my main language
[07:41] <_piotr> so maybe this will fix it
[07:41] <KaiL> that's imho no excuse
[07:42] <KaiL> do you have an example URL, where it breaks?
[07:42] <KaiL> emmanuel: good idea for a feature in some future version
[07:43] <KaiL> ..maybe one day a full system backup (or why now several?) will be no problem on your hd *g*
[07:43] <_piotr> KaiL: its all URLs
[07:43] <_piotr> I thought that it was a matter of encodings
[07:44] <_piotr> KaiL:but I changed to middle eastern Iso 8859-2 and it didnt change
[07:44] <KaiL> I don't use that must polish websites :)
[07:44] <_piotr> :9
[07:45] <KaiL> you only see some "box" as the characters?
[07:45] <KaiL> or useless rubbish?
[07:45] <_piotr> KaiL: what the plugin directory for konqui; I installed flash-non free but konqueror doesnt use it
[07:45] <_piotr> only a box
[07:45] <_piotr> but 2 signs work.. 
[07:45] <KaiL> so it's a font issue, no encoding
[07:46] <_piotr> oh yes.. sure
[07:46] <KaiL> plugins: konq -> settings -> configure
[07:46] <KaiL> scroll down on the left -> plugins ->search for new plugins (you might want to set the automation there)
[07:47] <_piotr> great
[07:47] <_piotr> thats very nice; forgot about it
[07:47] <_piotr> kde 3.4 is the first kde release which I like
[07:47] <_piotr> cause its faster at last
[07:47] <NTolerance> i love everything about kde 3.4 except the bugs
[07:48] <NTolerance> i installed gnome the other day and was reminded of how terrible it was
[07:48] <NTolerance> godawful
[07:49] <KaiL> about the bugs don't forget, that this is the very first release of kubuntu and until now, everything possible went in it's way (UDU, gcc4.0, subversion un kde.org...)
[07:51] <_piotr> NTolerance: got it for 2-3 hours and didnt come across any bug so far.. so its better thatn kde 3.0 3.1 3.2 and so on :)
[07:51] <_piotr> well.. besides the font issue :)
[07:52] <_piotr> KaiL: will you add oo 2.0 with the next release?
[07:53] <KaiL> you can already install it, if you are crazy enough ;:)
[07:53] <_piotr> KaiL: polish fonts look beautiful under oo 1.1 maybe better than on windows
[07:53] <KaiL> package name openoffice.org2
[07:53] <_piotr> KaiL: I got it on w2k and its alright
[07:54] <_piotr> at least faster
[07:54] <KaiL> Ken-OhKi: am I allowed to say, that I dislike your username?
[07:54] <Ken-OhKi>  KaiL : Only if you say the reason too
[07:55] <Ken-OhKi> (sorry... it wasn't set to send colors)
[07:55] <StR> Riddell: are you there?
[07:55] <KaiL> Ken-OhKi: it reminds me of something, I don't need a daily reminder for
[07:55] <_piotr> KaiL: what do I need for kopete with jabber in ssl mode?
[07:56] <_piotr> is there a tls package for kopete?
[07:57] <StR> anyone using breezy?
[07:57] <Tm_T> Ken-OhKi: uuh, luvli colors (NOT) ;)
[07:57] <Ken-OhKi> I isn't my fault!
[07:57] <Ken-OhKi> This script is mad
[07:58] <Tm_T> Ken-OhKi: don't use scripts
[07:59] <Ken-OhKi> brb (fixing a shame that I did)
[07:59] <Tm_T> =)
[08:00] <Ken-OhKi> Now...
[08:00] <StR> I'm still having  "libdbus-1-1: Conflicts: dbus-1 but 0.23.4-0ubuntu3 is to be installed"   problem with breezy
[08:00] <Ken-OhKi> can someone help me with connection sharin?
[08:02] <StR> Ken-OhKi: sharing your folders with other kubuntu machines?
[08:02] <Ken-OhKi> internet sharing
[08:02] <StR> Ken-OhKi: ahh.. with iptables?
[08:02] <Zecrazytux> hey
[08:02] <Zecrazytux> well
[08:03] <Ken-OhKi> well, eht0 has a PPPOE connecton, eth1 is connected to a win98 machine. I want this machine online on the web
[08:04] <Zecrazytux> i have chosen once the "console" in the logging graphical interface and now i' can't reboot, switch off my computer, i can only return in console
[08:04] <Zecrazytux> i xant to return on the graphical interface to logging in
[08:04] <Zecrazytux> even when the pc boots
[08:05] <Zecrazytux> how can i made it please  ?
[08:06] <uniq> ken-ohki: install a program called guidedog, it's a nice helper to configure connection sharing.
[08:06] <uniq> gah.
[08:06] <StR> ahhh!!!!     y need to set up my breezy again  :(
[08:06] <KaiL> StR: ?
[08:07] <StR> KaiL: hi  :)
[08:07] <KaiL> deb http://dev.kubuntu.org.uk/~jr/kubuntu/breezy/ ./ << files will be in breezy soon
[08:08] <StR> KaiL: so.. I should add that to my sources list, then apt-get update and apt-get dist-upgrade?
[08:09] <KaiL> for now yes
[08:09] <KaiL> or just wait some hours ;)
[08:09] <StR> KaiL: those are your packages?
[08:09] <KaiL> Riddell
[08:10] <StR> KaiL: ahh ok
[08:10] <Ken-OhKi> Hey, can someone tell me if my quit msg was '*flushed*'?
[08:10] <KaiL> be warned: media:/ does everythink, but not work
[08:10] <KaiL> Ken-OhKi: there was no message, as that was only /part, not /quit ;)
[08:10] <alejandro> KaiL: what changes have jr packages?
[08:11] <Ken-OhKi> Hey, can someone tell me if my quit msg was '*flushed*'?
[08:11] <KaiL> alejandro: they doesn't get removed with latest dbus/hal updates in breezy
[08:11] <KaiL> <-- Ken-OhKi has quit (Client Quit)
[08:11] <Ken-OhKi> At least that thing was gone?
[08:12] <KaiL> yes
[08:12] <Ken-OhKi> better ^^
[08:12] <Ken-OhKi> Later I'll make a mIRC Konversation - *NIX Style
[08:12] <Ken-OhKi> for win
[08:12] <Ken-OhKi> no colors XD
[08:14] <Ken-OhKi> Now
[08:14] <Ken-OhKi> finally
[08:15] <Ken-OhKi> can someone help me to share my internet connection?
[08:15] <Ken-OhKi> Probably with a NAT
[08:15] <KaiL> apt-get install ipmasq
[08:15] <uniq> ken-ohki: install a program called guidedog, it's a nice helper to configure connection sharing.
[08:16] <uniq> it's in the universe repository.. 
[08:16] <Ken-OhKi> how do I install 'guidedog'?
[08:16] <Ken-OhKi> apt-get too?
[08:17] <uniq> yes.
[08:17] <uniq> make sure you've enabled universe.
[08:17] <Ken-OhKi> *brb*
[08:17] <KaiL> ...there's his quit msg again...
[08:18] <StR> KaiL: quit msgs are not allowd here?
[08:18] <KaiL> read the content...
[08:33] <anglophobe> this is funny, my system works great when I use the liveCD, but when I install kubutntu, it doesn't work well.
[08:34] <KaiL> what doesn't work?
[08:34] <anglophobe> on an install my wireless barely works, and my external hd locks up, but with the live cd everything is hunky dory.
[08:34] <anglophobe> off the live cd, everything just works.
[08:35] <anglophobe> last time I tried the install it was saying /sbin/ifup couldn't read /etc/network/interfaces...
[08:35] <anglophobe> (after it was installed and booted up. the wireless wouldn't grab an ip)
[08:38] <anglophobe> any ideas?
[08:38] <anglophobe> could my install cd be bad?
[08:38] <anglophobe> (every time I install something different doesn't work)
[08:40] <bluszcz> whats the problem anglophobe ?
[08:40] <sirukin> maybe you just stink with computers.
[08:40] <anglophobe> :)
[08:41] <anglophobe> could be...
[08:41] <_buz> maybe your hardware is faulty
[08:41] <anglophobe> basically the kubuntu livecd woprks great with my system. the install cd less so.
[08:41] <_buz> might be the cd
[08:41] <_buz> make an image outof the cd and check the md5 sums
[08:41] <anglophobe> possible. windows was working fine before, but I've had hardware not work in one or the other beofre.. (usually works in llinux and not in windows though..)
[08:42] <anglophobe> there an md5 checker installed with kubuntu?
[08:44] <bluszcz> anglophobe: md5sum
[08:44] <anglophobe> whats the best way to make an img off a cd in linux?
[08:44] <_buz> k3b
[08:45] <_buz> what is the reason for those security backports against firefox?
[08:45] <_buz> instead of plainly updating it mean
[08:47] <bluszcz> anglophobe: dd
[08:51] <Ken-Oh-Ki> Yay! *Nix style!
[08:52] <Ken-Oh-Ki> Now, I couldn't install ipmasq neither guidedog
[08:52] <Ken-Oh-Ki> so.. what do I do?
[08:54] <uniq> ken-oh-ki: http://ubuntuguide.org/#extrarepositories
[08:54] <uniq> follow it, and try again.
[08:56] <Ken-Oh-Ki> how do I mount my Win partitions?
[08:56] <amu> _buz: the policy, just upgrading brings probably a lot of depends problem 
[09:00] <QrX> hi all
[09:02] <QrX> can someone help a newbie in installing 3d drivers ?
[09:05] <F_for_Fragging> i can help you
[09:06] <F_for_Fragging> one moment
[09:06] <QrX> thx
[09:06] <sirukin> hmm
[09:07] <F_for_Fragging> http://www.ubuntuguide.org/
[09:07] <F_for_Fragging> somewhere there should be an answer on how to install the nvidia drivers
[09:07] <F_for_Fragging> http://www.ubuntuguide.org/#installnvidiadriver
[09:07] <F_for_Fragging> this one
[09:07] <QrX> ok nice
[09:07] <F_for_Fragging> it's very easy
[09:08] <QrX> i ll check that
[09:08] <QrX> i hope :)
[09:08] <F_for_Fragging> but now i need some help: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=169364 -> somehow I'm getting stereo sound though the rear speakers of my 5.1 speakerset
[09:09] <F_for_Fragging> through
[09:09] <Tm_T> smouche: ping
[09:15] <Ken-Oh-Ki> Aracnofobia is a very sick movie...
[09:16] <F_for_Fragging> can someone help me with my sound problem? -> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=169364
[09:18] <Ken-Oh-Ki> where can I find some help about Guide Dog?
[09:20] <amu> F_for_Fragging: removig your default kaffeine stetting rm ~/.kde/share/config/kaffeinerc
[09:22] <F_for_Fragging> amu: thanks, I already tried removing the kaffeine settings file from my home dir, but that didn't work, I'll try what you suggested
[09:23] <F_for_Fragging> amu: however the problem also occurs in apps other than kaffeine, like amaroK, and in games like Enemy Territory
[09:24] <amu> F_for_Fragging: you can rename it and restart, than run a diff and you see the differences :)   
[09:24] <F_for_Fragging> amu: what do you exactly mean? sorry but I don't understand your last sentence
[09:24] <QrX> nice all 3d is working well atm also nvidai settings :p
[09:26] <amu> F_for_Fragging: instead of removing the file rename it. If you start kaffeine again, a new config file will be created. Now you can compare both files  
[09:27] <F_for_Fragging> amu: ok thanks, I'll try
[09:29] <muempf> hi
[09:30] <muempf> is there a chance to get "dvdrip" on kubuntu 5.04
[09:30] <Tm_T> hmm, why not
[09:30] <Tm_T> apt-get it / compile it
[09:30] <muempf> arg
[09:31] <allee> muempf: is really easy.  Tm_T will be lucky to explain it ;) *duck*
[09:31] <_buz> you cant apt-get it
[09:31] <_buz> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[09:31] <_buz>   dvdrip: Depends: transcode (>= 2:0.6.14) but it is not installable
[09:31] <_buz> E: Broken packages
[09:31] <muempf> hm, with apt-get i have a lot of problems with dependencies
[09:31] <_buz> but some people claim that dvdshrink works within wine
[09:31] <allee> _buz: apt-get source dvdrip
[09:32] <muempf> no wine
[09:32] <_buz> personally, i couldnt ever get wine to run
[09:32] <allee> _buz: sudo apt-get build-dep dvdrip
[09:32] <F_for_Fragging> amu: nope, it's not working, i suspect that the problem lies in my alsa configuration
[09:32] <_buz> tell that muempf
[09:32] <allee> cd dvdrip-x-y; debuild 
[09:32] <_buz> i'd use dvsdhrink in vmware  myself ;)
[09:33] <amu> F_for_Fragging: looks like, or you defined some desktop-keys 
[09:33] <muempf> hm so i have to build it from sources
[09:33] <F_for_Fragging> amu: desktop keys?
[09:35] <amu> F_for_Fragging: from kdeaccessability ... 
[09:35] <allee> muempf: did you check backports archive?
[09:36] <F_for_Fragging> amu: no, I didn't
[09:36] <F_for_Fragging> amu: in the topic http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=169364 i gave a detailed problem description
[09:37] <amu> F_for_Fragging: as i remember there's a possibility to set custom key bindings .. well it could be also i missunderstood this ;)   
[09:37] <F_for_Fragging> amu: basiccally i was watching a video file in kaffeine, accidentally pushed the mute key, pushed it again to unmute, but after that this problem i have now occured, system wide
[09:37] <Ken-Oh-Ki> Can someone help me with Guidedog configuration?
[09:37] <F_for_Fragging> amu: i also tried to create a new user, and with that user i had the same problem, so doubt it is my user's kaffeine config
[09:39] <spiral> ououuups... Who broke kde in breezy ?
[09:40] <F_for_Fragging> amu: thanks for your help though
[09:41] <amu> stange, sorry, never tried/tested AC3 
[09:42] <F_for_Fragging> amu: the problem isn't with AC-3, somehow I'm getting stereo sound though my rear speakers only
[09:42] <F_for_Fragging> though
[09:42] <F_for_Fragging> i mean through
[09:43] <amu> did you tried to set some defaults with kmix ? 
[09:44] <F_for_Fragging> I deleted my KMix config in my home dir, after that it was reset to defaults, but it didn't make any difference
[09:45] <allee> Ken-Oh-Ki: what's the problem?
[09:45] <amu> did you tested the liveCD ? 
[09:46] <amu> it's a audigy I or II ? 
[09:46] <F_for_Fragging> on the liveCD I didn't have any problems at all with the sound, in my topic I also wrote that after the install of Kubuntu my sound was working fine for some weeks until this accident happened
[09:46] <F_for_Fragging> Soundblaster Audigy Player
[09:47] <F_for_Fragging> Audigy 1
[09:48] <F_for_Fragging> I'm sure that the problem is software related
[09:48] <amu> got some ears ago in trouble with a II, but now the driver is stable, what happen if you change from xine-enine from arts to oss or to auto  
[09:48] <amu> ears/years even
[09:49] <F_for_Fragging> how do i change engines? in the control center module? it's set on auto there
[09:49] <amu> it's a 6.1 but never got it full working, 5.1 no problem :) 
[09:50] <amu> config kaffeine ...  on the left you see engine 
[09:51] <amu> config from the menu 
[09:53] <F_for_Fragging> if I open Kaffeine -> Settings -> Configure Kaffeine I only see Behaviour Appearence and Misc?
[09:54] <amu> http://basic-rip.co.uk/tenpin/alsasound
[09:56] <amu> settings, xine engine parameters
[09:56] <amu> audio
[09:56] <amu> right site you can choose the driver 
[09:59] <F_for_Fragging> ok I experimented with oss, alsa and auto, but it didn't change anything
[09:59] <F_for_Fragging> I can still only hear the stereo sound through my rear speakers
[10:00] <amu> the othe are not set ? 
[10:00] <amu> grr 
[10:00] <amu> he other speakers are not set ? 
[10:00] <F_for_Fragging> no
[10:01] <F_for_Fragging> if I want to play a video file or game with stereo sound i can only hear it through my two rear speakers, if I play AC-3 though all my speakers are used
[10:01] <amu> pased you a example script ... you can find out from the kenel modules and proc about the names.   
[10:01] <amu> than just echo them 
[10:01] <Ken-Oh-Ki> ./firefox-installer-bin: error while loading shared libraries: libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[10:02] <Ken-Oh-Ki> What do I do?
[10:02] <amu> amixer sset "PCM Surround" 70% > /dev/null 2>&1 &
[10:02] <amu> amixer sset "PCM Center" 70% > /dev/null 2>&1 &
[10:02] <amu> and so on 
[10:03] <F_for_Fragging> amu: sorry but I'm not an expert in this
[10:03] <F_for_Fragging> how do i find out from the kernel modules and proc?
[10:04] <F_for_Fragging> i was thinking if there is a way to reconfigure alsa or set it back to it's defaults?
[10:04] <amu> less /proc/asound/
[10:04] <amu> you see some infos about the card there, i'm not sure if you see the names
[10:05] <amu> with strings emu10k you see them also  
[10:05] <F_for_Fragging> amu, /proc/asound/ is a directory, i assume you meant ls instead of less?
[10:06] <amu> it goes on ... /proc/asound/oss or /proc/asound/card0 ... 
[10:07] <F_for_Fragging> I can see card0 there
[10:07] <amu> emu10k1 
[10:07] <F_for_Fragging> and in /proc/asound/card0 i can see a file called emu10k1
[10:09] <amu> ok, now find the modules it must be under /lib/modules/2.6.10.../kernel/sound/ 
[10:09] <amu> than a strings emu10k1 |more 
[10:10] <F_for_Fragging> core  drivers  i2c  isa  oss  pci  pcmcia  soundcore.ko  synth  usb -> are the contents of /lib/modules/2.6.10-5-386/kernel/sound
[10:12] <amu> amu@devel:~/.kde$ strings /lib/modules/2.6.10-5-386/kernel/sound/pci/emu10k1/snd-emu10k1.ko |more
[10:12] <Ken-Oh-Ki> God... it's hard to get info here
[10:14] <amu> Ken-Oh-Ki: probably noone will help you, if you install software from somewhere and it doesnt work ...  
[10:14] <F_for_Fragging> ok, and what do i do now with that file?
[10:15] <Ken-Oh-Ki> I was just trying to make FF work here
[10:16] <Ken-Oh-Ki> but what I really want is make the proxy work
[10:16] <amu> F_for_Fragging: you find some detailted infos about your driver and soundcard. hold on i'll search for a easier way 
[10:21] <allee> Ken-Oh-Ki: I asked already what the problem is.  But I have not tried FF yet and right now only one computer so FF is hard to test ;)
[10:23] <allee> Ken-Oh-Ki: What do you want to proxy?
[10:24] <Ken-Oh-Ki> I want to share my internet connection
[10:24] <Ken-Oh-Ki> eth0 has the internet, eth1 has the another computer
[10:24] <Ken-Oh-Ki> I tried http://www.netfilter.org/documentation/HOWTO/NAT-HOWTO-4.html and Guide Dog, but nothing happened
[10:25] <allee> Ken-Oh-Ki: me too ;)  I guidedog, enable routing, add new address: network of eth1, eg 192.168.100.0/24.  Press okay.
[10:27] <allee> Ken-Oh-Ki: ah, and rsync /etc/resolv.conf on the router to all other clients in the net  (need to be done after every ifup eth0 or find some
[10:27] <allee> NS you can always use, from work e.g.)
[10:27] <allee> Or install a caching name daemon like pdnsd
[10:29] <F_for_Fragging> amu: are you still there?
[10:31] <amu> http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php?page=AudigyMixer
[10:33] <F_for_Fragging> amu: ok, what do i have to do know?
[10:35] <amu> F_for_Fragging: nice description what is what ... as i remember there was a gui if you want set them. the other way is you know now the names and you can set them   
[10:37] <F_for_Fragging> but you are saying I should change some settings in the files you pointed me to?
[10:39] <zecrazytux> CTRL-ALT-F1 to open the console mode, and then how can i shut X down ?
[10:39] <amu> F_for_Fragging: yep i showed them you before ... 
[10:40] <F_for_Fragging> amu: I think I can figure it out myself from here on, I have to go now it's getting late. thanks a lot for taking the time to help me
[10:40] <amu> F_for_Fragging: did you tried with alsamixer to change some of them? 
[10:42] <amu> sorry but i can remember excatly, it was 3 years ago, since i tried it :) but with that imput you should be able to change your values  
[10:43] <F_for_Fragging> I'll try out to max out all the channels there and see if that works
[10:45] <F_for_Fragging> nope, still no luck
[10:45] <F_for_Fragging> but I have to go now, thanks for all your help
[10:46] <amaro> im not sure if this is an issue with KDE or ubuntu...
[10:46] <amaro> but a lot of times when I type CTRL-s
[10:46] <amaro> the letter 's' appears
[10:55] <mischko> With kubuntu, can I run Gnome applications?
[10:57] <pussfeller> mischko, yes
[10:57] <pussfeller> you still need to fetch them of course
[10:57] <mischko> but gnome is installed?
[10:58] <pussfeller> no you have to install it
[10:58] <mischko> Ok.
[10:58] <mischko> So the main difference between kubuntu and ubuntu is KDE vs. Gnome?
[10:59] <pussfeller> exact difference
[10:59] <mischko> ok.  Thanks for the info.
[10:59] <pussfeller> the gnome version is more fleshed out at this point....
[11:01] <mischko> I've got VMWare.  I'll probably install both of them.
[11:08] <Tm_T> bah
[11:17] <delltony> question: i'm running  a lappy with kubuntu 5.04 and all seems fine but here is an issue i have been strugglin with. when my computer is left idle it kills the monitor of course. and when i hit the mouse all comes back to life. here is the problem though. when it comes back to life it seems to sluggish as crap. meaning applications run slow. refresh is slow as if the processor is laggin. i ran top and can't really determine "lack o
[11:17] <delltony> f knowledge i guess" what the issue could be. Not sure if its a process the cpu overheating bad modules or what. help would be appreciated
[11:22] <TayloR> Hey all, quick question, how would i go about formatting a storage drive i have in my pc, its a hdd completly seperate to that with the kubuntu install on it.. also what would be the best format to have a stroage drive in? ext2?
[11:23] <Sander__> delltony, when you say goes to sleep do you mean suspend?
[11:23] <delltony> well i don't really think its supending 
[11:23] <mischko> delltony, I've had things go slow when a laptop resumes also. Try downing and upping your network connections.
[11:23] <delltony> it might well be but i dont' think so
[11:24] <delltony> and they will speed up the other aps and cpu lag?
[11:24] <Sander__> I've heard stories about suspend, even once it's working, I think it still has issues.
[11:24] <delltony> well how can i disable it if enabled
[11:24] <delltony> i honestly thought it was disabled cause i thought ubuntu did that noapci
[11:24] <delltony> or whatever
[11:25] <mischko> delltony, not sure.  Try checking out apmd
[11:25] <TayloR> no one know how to format via terminal or some other means?
[11:25] <TayloR> *konsole
[11:25] <delltony> fdisk
[11:25] <delltony> and mount the drive 
[11:25] <TayloR> drives already mounted, just type fdisk?
[11:26] <TayloR> do i need the live cd or anything in to do fdisk?
[11:26] <delltony> you can uset he live cd to do it thru the parition manager
[11:26] <delltony> but what i have always done is just the fdisk thing
[11:26] <mischko> TayloR, you'll probably need to mkfs to format it. fdisk does a low level format.
[11:26] <mischko> i.e. mkfs.ext3
[11:26] <TayloR> ahh right 
[11:26] <bluszcz> such a pitty day
[11:26] <TayloR> would ext3 be the best format?
[11:27] <bluszcz> jfs
[11:27] <bluszcz> or xfs, ext3 is too old
[11:27] <TayloR> ext2 ok?
[11:27] <delltony> i use reiserfs myself
[11:27] <bluszcz> uch
[11:27] <mischko> ext2 would not be as good as ext3. ext3 is journalled.
[11:27] <mischko> ext3 is old but a good general purpose format.
[11:27] <bluszcz> month ago I tried reiser4
[11:27] <TayloR> ahh ok
[11:27] <TayloR> thanks for the info people :)
[11:27] <TayloR> really apprecaite it
[11:27] <mischko> ;)
[11:28] <TayloR> *appreciate 
[11:30] <delltony> see apmd says what i thought no apm support in kernel
[11:30] <delltony> so i am not sure what is going on but its almost as if it hibernated and i need to yank its nuts to get it back to running normal
[11:32] <darkaudit> using k3b... burning a data DVD for use on an XP box... do I need to enable Joliet or Udf in the burn/filesystem tab?
[11:33] <bluszcz> joliet
[11:33] <darkaudit> thx :)
[11:34] <bluszcz> or use cdrecord
[11:41] <luke> anyone here tried wormux?
[11:42] <Diablo-D3> bluszcz> or xfs, ext3 is too old
[11:42] <Diablo-D3> wtf crack are you on
[11:42] <Diablo-D3> ext3 is the recommended file system
[11:43] <bluszcz> Diablo-D3: I am using jfs
[11:44] <bluszcz> I don't like ext3
[11:44] <Diablo-D3> yet, sadly, ext3 is superiour
[11:45] <gdh> And hey, when XFS / JFS / Reiser shits all over your disk... which FS will give you a decent chance of data recovery?
[11:45] <gdh> Yep, old faithful :)
[11:46] <Diablo-D3> yeah, what gdh said
[11:46] <Diablo-D3> ext3 has about 20 years of perfection behnind it
[11:46] <gdh> ext3 might not handle billions of files in one dir, etc. - but deal with that, that's what system admin is about
[11:46] <Diablo-D3> (please note: ext3 is just ext2 with a journal. You can even field upgrade ext2 filesystems)
[11:48] <gdh> Anyway, a little rant, and now to bed - nna =)
[11:48] <Diablo-D3> night
[11:49] <R0bNyc> Is Kubuntu or Ubuntu unstable?
[11:49] <Diablo-D3> R0bNyc: neither is.
[11:49] <R0bNyc> testing?
[11:49] <Diablo-D3> nope.
[11:49] <R0bNyc> stable ?
[11:50] <Diablo-D3> kubuntu is just ubuntu with kubuntu-desktop installed by default, btw
[11:50] <Diablo-D3> ubuntu only has stable right now
[11:51] <R0bNyc> so if u have ubuntu and u get kde ur using ubuntu, and if u use kubuntu and then get gnome ur still using kubuntu ?
[11:51] <Diablo-D3> breezy is supposed to be unstable, but its _really_ unstable, you cant even run it
[11:51] <Diablo-D3> not quite, if you install either ubuntu or kubuntu, you're using ubuntu
[11:51] <R0bNyc> lol
[11:51] <\sh> R0bNyc: the basement is ubuntu...kubtunu is ubuntu base with kubuntu-desktop applied 
[11:51] <R0bNyc> i heard its stable = outdated 
[11:52] <\sh> ubuntu == ubuntu-basement with ubuntu-desktop == gnome applid
[11:52] <\sh> +e
[11:52] <Diablo-D3> stable = outdated applies to debian
[11:52] <Diablo-D3> ubuntu's stable is about where debian's testing is
[11:52] <R0bNyc> yes
[11:52] <R0bNyc> oh
[11:52] <Diablo-D3> and btw, on either ubuntu or kubuntu, you can install both ubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-desktop
[11:52] <R0bNyc> cool
[11:53] <R0bNyc> so whats the difference then lol
[11:53] <Diablo-D3> the difference is just whats installed by default
[11:53] <\sh> R0bNyc: it's working
[11:53] <Diablo-D3> its all the same distro
[11:53] <R0bNyc> \sh, is working ?
[11:54] <\sh> R0bNyc: yes, install it, and work with it...it's just working
[11:54] <R0bNyc> oh
[11:54] <R0bNyc> I notice a friend of mine has kubuntu , and I think hes oudated xchat 2.4.1 
[11:54] <Diablo-D3> 2.4.1 isnt outdated
[11:56] <bergfloh> hi, what can i do, if the installation of grub and lilo fails at installation time? is there a way to boot the hd with the installation cdrom? i need to boot /vmlinuz from /dev/hda1 with kernel parameter root=/dev/hda1
[11:56] <Diablo-D3> bergfloh: er, oh boy
[11:56] <Diablo-D3> bergfloh: it should never fail to begin with
[11:57] <bergfloh> yes, but it has already failed
[11:57] <bergfloh> ;-)
[11:57] <Diablo-D3> you should try figuring out why it failed
[11:57] <Diablo-D3> thats a pretty serious problem
[11:58] <Diablo-D3> bergfloh: ubuntu is supposed to be a distro thats easy to install and use...
[11:58] <Diablo-D3> it seems to have failed you in that respect =/
[11:58] <R0bNyc> Diablo-D3, 2.4.1 is outdated to me
[11:58] <Diablo-D3> bergfloh: what hardware are you on?
[11:58] <R0bNyc> 2.4.3 is not
[11:58] <bergfloh> everything else worked (there were no other error messages), so the system should be there and i should be able to start it, i just have to start /vmlinuz...
[11:58] <Diablo-D3> R0bNyc: 2 point releases does not make it outdated
[11:58] <bergfloh> Diablo-D3: it's a crappy laptop
[11:58] <Diablo-D3> bergfloh: that... could explain it
[11:59] <R0bNyc> kde 3.3 is outdated to me, 3.4 is not :) 
[11:59] <Diablo-D3> crappy laptops hate linux
[11:59] <Diablo-D3> they also hate you, the world, and themselves
[11:59] <bergfloh> Diablo-D3: there was kanotix with grub on it before.
[11:59] <Diablo-D3> R0bNyc: specifically, those two point releases havent added anything critical
[11:59] <bergfloh> Diablo-D3: grub is still in the mbr
[11:59] <Diablo-D3> bergfloh: mwhahah. Dunno whats going on
[11:59] <R0bNyc> ok
[11:59] <Diablo-D3> hrm
[12:00] <R0bNyc> I can have ubuntu being sid ?
[12:00] <Diablo-D3> bergfloh: and grub is no worky?
[12:00] <Diablo-D3> R0bNyc: you can crossgrade a sid machine to ubuntu
[12:00] <bergfloh> Diablo-D3: of course not, because there is no second boot loader... ;-)
[12:00] <Diablo-D3> bergfloh: er, right.
[12:00] <bergfloh> Diablo-D3: it's just in the mbr, nothing more
[12:00] <R0bNyc> what u mean
[12:01] <Diablo-D3> R0bNyc: its not an upgrade or a downgrade, so its a cross grade
[12:01] <R0bNyc> mixed is not good
[12:01] <Diablo-D3> bergfloh: blah. Is there anything on the disk you want?
[12:01] <kay> won't be mixed
[12:01] <Diablo-D3> yeah, mixed isnt good
[12:01] <kay> R0bNyc: I have made good experience with it