[12:12] <lamont> 'h'
[12:13] <lamont> g'night mvo
[12:13] <mvo> night lamont 
[12:15] <dholbach> good night
[12:15] <kiko> night daniel
[12:17] <dholbach> bye kiko
[12:17] <lamont> night dholbach 
[12:17] <dholbach> bye lamont 
[12:30] <doko> elmo, mdz: for an announcement of the C++ transition to ubuntu-devel, please could you confirm that we can freeze C++ apps and new source packages on Monday?
[12:30] <elmo> define freeze?
[12:31] <kiko> place in a temperature below 0C
[12:33] <elmo> POP THE TRUNK
[12:34] <tseng> mjg59: well, i threatened to kick the next person to complain about mono deps in the face.. i guess thats you :D
[12:34] <ogra> heh
[12:34] <tseng> mjg59: monodis is broken so dh_clideps doesnt work
[12:35] <ogra> tseng, no its not !
[12:35] <ogra> :)
[12:35] <tseng> you fixed?
[12:35] <ogra> fixed...
[12:35] <tseng> nice
[12:35] <ogra> testbuild just finished
[12:37] <tseng> you rock
[12:37] <elmo> doko: (seriously)
[12:37] <tseng> now we get to rebuild *
[12:37] <ogra> yep..
[12:38] <ogra> and look that dh_clideps has -d everywhere....
[12:38] <tseng> jeez its 80F outside
[12:38] <doko> freeze: no new source packages enter, no source package from a given list is uploaded
[12:39] <doko> elmo: ^^^
[12:39] <tseng> doko: that pretty well sucks do we get to finish with mono first?
[12:39] <elmo> doko: by any one?
[12:39] <ogra> tseng, c++
[12:40] <tseng> i know what its about
[12:40] <tseng> oh well
[12:40] <ogra> tseng, mono desnt need new c++ source 
[12:40] <doko> tseng: does mono depend on c++?
[12:40] <tseng> oh so its not blacklisted
[12:40] <tseng> i see
[12:40] <tseng> the other day i thought you meant freeze on everything.
[12:40] <doko> tseng: calm down ;-)
[12:41] <ogra> tseng, mainly KDE :-P
[12:41] <tseng> doko: heh im tired of getting 50 messages a day bitching about mono-app-X being broken
[12:41] <doko> tseng: with the time you get used to it
[12:41] <tseng> heh
[12:41] <ogra> thats the price you pay for the Maintainer: field ;)
[12:42] <tseng> people should grok the breezy field
[12:42] <doko> elmo: well, we may want to allow some people to allow manual upload and only disallow new source packages being synced from unstable?
[12:48] <schweeb> mako: ping
[12:50] <mdke> schweeb, is it about CC? i was hustling him earlier and he said he was writing a paper for a conference
[12:54] <schweeb> yea
[12:54] <schweeb> it is
[12:54] <mdke> he sounded busy
[12:54] <schweeb> not entirely uncommon for him
[12:55] <mdke> ya
[12:55] <mdke> good double negative understatement
[12:55] <mdke> ;)
[12:55] <sladen> double plus good
[12:57] <schweeb> got approved for membership at last meeting, and was wondering if there was anything else I needed to do... sent him a signed CoC back a while ago, but wanna know if he wants me to sign again for membership
[12:59] <tseng> schweeb: double check with mako 
[12:59] <schweeb> tseng: which is why I pinged mako, bish
[12:59] <tseng> i missed that
[12:59] <tseng> bish
[01:00] <mdz> doko: if elmo says it can be technically impleented in time, I have on problem instituting it on Monday
[01:01] <doko> s/on/no/ ?
[01:01] <mdke> schweeb, i'm thinking a mail will do the trick
[01:02] <doko> mdz: s/on/no/ ?
[01:02] <eruin> (from udu wiki/FileManagerImprovement) "[...]  and the difficult choice between "Pictures", "Photos" and "Graphics"."  <-- isn't Pictures the obvious catch-all?
[01:02] <Burgundavia> eruin, not really
[01:03] <mdz> doko: yes
[01:03] <Burgundavia> eruin, something I create in inkscape is not a picture
[01:03] <eruin> Burgundavia: well, fair enough, but to a casual desktop user? I myself would use graphics (and I do)
[01:03] <Burgundavia> eruin, what about Images?
[01:04] <eruin> that's a nice one
[01:04] <eruin> ;)
[01:04] <schweeb> mdke: that's an undesirable amount of work, since I don't have my mail client set up currently :P
[01:04] <mdke> schweeb, *grins*
[01:04] <mdke> priv msg then ;)
[01:04] <Burgundavia> mpt, what did they suggest?
[01:04] <mpt> pictures, iirc
[01:05] <Burgundavia> dictionary.com says "# A visual representation or image painted, drawn, photographed, or otherwise rendered on a flat surface."
[01:05] <mpt> Quite possibly the sort of people who create non-picture graphics are the sort of people willing and able to create their own folders
[01:06] <eruin> that's indeed along the lines I was thinking, too
[01:06] <lamont> back later
[01:06] <sladen> mdz: is LiveCD/tools supposed to be empty?
[01:06] <mdz> sladen: what is LiveCD/tools?
[01:07] <mdz> oh, do you mean the /tools directory on the CD?
[01:07] <Unfrgiven> morning all
[01:07] <mdz> that's empty on both live and install
[01:07] <mdz> a debian-cd artifact, presumably
[01:07] <Unfrgiven> anyone else having problems with the new version of ndiswrapper?
[01:07] <mdz> I think that's where rawrite and such live
[01:07] <Unfrgiven> the modules won't load
[01:08] <mdz> Unfrgiven: #ubuntu, please
[01:08] <Unfrgiven> mdz: this is a breezy issue for a new upload.
[01:08] <mdz> Unfrgiven: please?
[01:08] <Unfrgiven> mdz: isn't it better discussed here?
[01:08] <lamont-away> mdz: no build log updates for a couple 3 more hours...
[01:08] <Burgundavia> Unfrgiven, things are broken in breezy, file a bug unless you have a fix
[01:08] <mdz> lamont-away: what happened?
[01:09] <lamont-away> offline so I can bzip2 everything
[01:09] <eruin> has there been any recent discussion based around font hinting and similar stuff? (ie the fact that fonts turn up uneccessarily cripsy on alot of systems)
[01:09] <mdz> eruin: FontHandling would be the place to look
[01:09] <eruin> cheers
[01:09] <lamont-away> they're still getting saved (now bzipped), but turning on the rsync now would be bad for my health, next time elmo caught up with me.
[01:09] <lamont-away> up to 'k' on the compression side of things... :-(
[01:09] <mdz> also, thully complains about it from time to time
[01:10] <Unfrgiven> Burgundavia: well id like to write a fix but i need some more info as to what is wrong. this worked yesterday until the i got the latest breezy crack in the evening. but ok, i guess ill go to #ubuntu.
[01:10] <tseng> thully complains about alot of things
[01:10] <mdz> lamont-away: so this is bzip2ing all build logs?
[01:10] <tseng> but refuses to learn anything.
[01:10] <mdz> lamont-away: does firefox know how to un-bzip2 them on the fly for viewing/
[01:10] <mdz> ?
[01:10] <lamont-away> mdz: I'll have my laptop with me, if the need really arises.  otherwise, they should be done before I sleep
[01:10] <lamont-away> mdz: yes.
[01:10] <mdz> ok
[01:10] <lamont-away> and no
[01:10] <schweeb> tseng: I noticed as much
[01:10] <mdz> oh
[01:11] <mdz> wouldn't it be better to use gzip instead, then?
[01:11] <lamont-away> yes we're bziping them all, no ffox is clueless
[01:11] <mdz> it would also be a lot faster
[01:11] <lamont-away> less disk savings that way - text files get pretty extreme with bzip.
[01:11] <sladen> mdz: yup, the README in that directory says it contains rawrite, but there nothing in there
[01:11] <lamont-away> someone was going to see how hard it was to get apache and ffox happy
[01:12] <mdz> sladen: seems worth a low-severity bug report for Kamion
[01:12] <lamont-away> mdz: worst case, I'll switch to using gzip once I get the master and p.u.c copy back in sync.
[01:12] <lamont-away> then old will be bz2, but current will be .gz
[01:13] <lamont-away> anyway, getting dragged out the door to the party
[01:21] <sladen> mdz: what's kamion's email for bugzilla, I've just wiped the fabulous page out by getting it wrong
[01:24] <mdz> sladen: cjwatson
[01:36] <mako> schweeb: hey dude
[01:36] <mako> schweeb: lemme check
[02:06] <bob2> whiprush: people were sick before paul arrived in australia
[02:06] <whiprush> yeah but he's a convenience scapegoat.
[02:07] <whiprush> plus he was in my room so he's an easy target.
[02:10] <jordi> who is paul?
[02:10] <jordi> did he infect me?
[02:10] <ogra> jordi, yes
[02:10] <jordi> ffs
[02:11] <lifeless> short guy, wide shoulders, foldaway bikeh
[02:13] <ogra> jordi, we sat upstairs on the armchairs in the corridor and he coughed all the time...
[02:13] <ogra> (we = you, me, him)
[02:13] <jordi> nod
[02:13] <jordi> fun
[02:13] <jordi> so it wasn silbs after all!
[02:13] <ogra> heh
[02:13] <jordi> wasn't
[02:16] <zul> heh...maybe you all got bubonic plague
[02:20] <infinity> zul : Felt like it.
[02:20] <zul> more sunlight will do you good infinity 
[02:45] <whiprush> jdub: ping
[02:52] <dilinger> heh
[02:52] <dilinger> the 'x' key just fell off my laptop keyboard
[02:52] <dilinger> soon there will be none left
[02:53] <zul> you should stop looking at triple-x sites then
[02:53] <tseng> zul: http://tseng.ath.cx/photos/index.php?galerie=udu&snimek=91 < he's not kidding
[02:54] <zul> hehe
[02:54] <dilinger> mm.. mentos
[02:56] <infinity> dilinger's laptop helps make mine feel less inadequate, therefor it's a wonderful thing.
[02:58] <dilinger> much like ripped jeans, one day keyboards w/ half the keys lost will be fashionable.  just you wait.
[02:58] <infinity> Uh huh.
[03:20] <jdub> whiprush: pong
[03:20] <whiprush> got some time to talk fridge?
[03:21] <tseng> whiprush: ill tell you something about fridge. if you dont get your moldy crap out of there..
[03:22] <whiprush> hands off the beer in the fridge, kid.
[03:22] <tseng> (i dont drink beer, remember)
[03:22] <whiprush> :(
[03:23] <mdz> daniels: is there a bug open somewhere already for "it'd be nice to have a desktop tool to change the default mode for X"? (cf. #10173)
[03:24] <daniels> mdz: not really.  we all sort of agreed that it would kick arse if we had something similar to redhat-config-display, in oxford, but that never eventuated
[03:26] <jdub> whiprush: sho'!
[03:27] <whiprush> So I was thinking of trying out different stuff to get an idea of what we want to use. But elmo flinched everytime we mentioned something php based.
[03:27] <jdub> heh
[03:27] <whiprush> So I'm going to play with this newsbruiser thing for a bit.
[03:27] <jdub> whiprush: i've started putting it together with drupal - it won't be a problem
[03:27] <whiprush> and start "practicing" what entries would look like
[03:27] <jdub> newsbruiser is just a blog hosting tool
[03:27] <whiprush> ok.
[03:27] <jdub> hrm
[03:27] <jdub> actually
[03:28] <whiprush> ok well if you have something setup, when it's ready give me a little sandbox and I can start playing around with entries.
[03:28] <jdub> wait a sec, i'll set it up so you can play with my devel version at home
[03:29] <whiprush> then I was thinking we could do like #ubuntu-fridge and have all the people interested (the guy that bought spreadubuntu.com for example), then we could start brainstorming what works and what doesn't, etc.
[03:29] <whiprush> and start breaking stuff
[03:30] <whiprush> then we could run it like that for a week or so, see how it feels/works, and go from there.
[03:31] <ajmitch_> whiprush: as long as you put some decent stuff in the fridge for us
[03:32] <jdub> so i was thinking about other funny fridge things that inspired the idea
[03:32] <jdub> do you guys remember the fridge in ghostbusters?
[03:32] <ajmitch_> vaguely
[03:32] <whiprush> my needly little brain has been plotting fridge-content all day.
[03:33] <jdub> ajmitch_: watch ghostbusters again, and watch out for the fridge ;)
[03:34] <spiv> jdub: "Do you actually eat this stuff?" ;)
[03:35] <jdub> :-)
[03:36] <whiprush> My fridge inspiration comes from The Naked Gun.
[03:36] <whiprush> When the girl goes through his fridge, and gets some chinese out ... "Didn't this place go out of business like 3 years ago?"
[03:36] <jdub> ha ha
[03:36] <jdub> so we totally need a page of crazy fridge references ;)
[03:37] <jlje> whiprush: yeah, great line, saw that movie just a few days ago
[03:37] <whiprush> How do you know if there is a reindeer in your refrigerator? The hoof prints in the butter!
[03:38] <whiprush> http://www.nashken.com/cartoons/techniks/refrigerator-blue.gif
[03:39] <whiprush> these puns are going to get out of control in the future. I'm telling you now.
[03:47] <Lathiat> whiprush: haha
[03:54] <bob2> oh man, at this hotel in sydney they had a fridge with blue leds inside it
[03:54] <jdub> we should have a fridge gallery
[03:55] <dilinger> bob2: they weren't VA style, were they?  stare directly at them and lose your eyesight for an hour?
[03:55] <bob2> haha
[04:11] <jdub> whoa
[04:11] <jdub> XIP on its way to 2.6
[04:11] <jdub> (article in lwn)
[04:28] <bob2> what's the least crap small-business accounting thing in ubuntu?
[04:28] <HrdwrBoB> gnumeric
[04:28] <HrdwrBoB> :(
[04:28] <Amaranth> I've found a new favorite word: fuckyouness
[04:28] <Amaranth> divifund?
[04:29] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  your @g.o addy still works?
[04:30] <bluefoxicy> ok pop quiz, what's the best address to contact tseng at?
[04:31] <bob2> the one he posts to ubuntu-devel with, presumably
[04:32] <bluefoxicy> hold it I have to read one of the google results whose description starts with "Brandon hale states 'last night I stayed up all night...'"
[04:34] <HrdwrBoB> divifund is a personal finance, not business finance
[04:37] <Burgundavia> bob2, quasar, but I don't no if it is packaged for Debian/Ubuntu
[04:39] <daniels> daniels@catsby:~/canonical/freetype% apt-get source freetype2
[04:39] <daniels> [...] 
[04:39] <daniels> dpkg-source: extracting freetype1 in freetype1-1.4pre.20030402
[04:39] <daniels> daniels@catsby:~/canonical/freetype% apt-get source freetype
[04:39] <daniels> [...] 
[04:40] <daniels> dpkg-source: extracting freetype in freetype-2.1.7
[04:40] <daniels> work that one out.
[04:40] <Amaranth> o_O
[04:40] <Amaranth> That's a little...off.
[04:43] <bluefoxicy> a little bass ackwards
[05:08] <daniels> oh god
[05:08] <daniels> freetype2 has an I Can't Believe It's Not DBS build system
[05:10] <womble> daniels: Shouldn't that be "I Can't Understand DBS So I'll Reinvent It" ?
[05:10] <womble> Hmm...
[05:16] <lamont> daniels: but did freetype2 capture all the stupidity that is encapsulated in dbs?
[05:17] <daniels> lamont: it embraced it and extended it
[05:18] <lamont> just reading scrollback...  the source layout is, um, interesting
[05:29] <wasabi> Who works on update-manager?
[05:31] <daniels> mvo, IIRC
[05:31] <fabbione> morning
[05:32] <lamont> wasabi: mvo sounds right
[05:52] <minghua> Hi, I am setting up a breezy chroot
[05:52] <minghua> It seems the version of build-essential is still 10.1ubuntu1
[05:53] <minghua> So I have to wait for build-essential 11 to enter archive (or sync to mirror), right?
[06:09] <fabbione> mdz: what is the proper way to update status of the specs? right now i am adding info after each point that gets implemented/tested/whatever.. but should we create a separate section for implementation status or is it ok?
[06:10] <fabbione> an example is ClusterFilesystem and InstallerVolumeManager
[06:10] <fabbione> Management even
[06:19] <|QuaD-_> dist-upgrade on breezy wants to remove update-manager :)
[06:50] <derek> on the laptopTeam page it pointed here
[06:51] <derek> has there been any development/success in getting sound to work with dell latitude series laptops and dell port replicators?
[06:51] <derek> sound works fine for me on the laptop, but when plugged into the replicator the sound outbound on replicator doesnt work
[06:51] <derek> if i plug back in laptop it works fine
[06:51] <derek> usb and other port replicating items appear to work fine
[06:54] <Treenaks> gnome-volume-manager has a missing build-dep on bzip2
[06:56] <Lathiat> why the hell does g-v-m need bzip2 to build?
[06:57] <Treenaks> it contains the original source in a .tar.bz2
[06:58] <Treenaks> pretty common really
[06:58] <Treenaks> also check http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/g/gnome-volume-manager/1.3.1-0ubuntu1/gnome-volume-manager_1.3.1-0ubuntu1_20050511-2119-i386-failed.bz2
[06:58] <bob2> ew
[06:59] <Lathiat> Treenaks: ohh right
[06:59] <Lathiat> thats not so bad
[07:05] <Treenaks> I rebuilt it myself now -- with the right deps -- and it works fine
[07:12] <g14> I found an issue with fast-user-switch-applet and esd
[07:13] <concept10> g14: what apps do you work on?
[07:14] <g14> concept10, When changing users with the fast-user-switch-applet, esd is already running as the first person
[07:14] <g14> concept10, so sound does not whatsoever for the second user. I believe ajmitch_ is working on fusa for ubuntu
[07:15] <g14> concept10, http://ignore-your.tv/fusa/
[07:15] <concept10> alright, checking it out
[07:17] <g14> concept10, thanks. There are debs available from http://ankur.ath.cx/ubuntu/fast-user-switch-applet/
[07:18] <concept10> g14: 
[07:18] <g14> concept10, yes?
[07:19] <concept10> g14: oops sorry, anyway - im trying to bring some of the redhat tools over to ubuntu as posted on the ubuntu goals, but Im not too familiar with ubuntu/debian, but I almost have one of the requested tools working
[07:19] <g14> concept10, All of the system-config stuff? That would be awesome
[07:20] <g14> concept10, what do you have almost working?
[07:21] <concept10> yeah, I been primarily a fedora and red hat user but I like ubuntu, I have it installed on one of my development box
[07:21] <concept10> system-config-services
[07:21] <g14> concept10, I've used redhat since redhat 5 when it used gnome with enlightenment as the wm *shudders*
[07:21] <g14> just started using ubuntu a few months ago
[07:21] <concept10> I lost my internet connection earlier
[07:21] <g14> And love it
[07:21] <g14> thats fine
[07:22] <concept10> so you are familar with all of the system-config tools? I would like to get them working in one wrapper
[07:22] <g14> I am familar with most all of them
[07:22] <g14> Even the obscure ones like system-config-netboot
[07:23] <g14> concept10, Why one wrapper? They should be seperate packages
[07:23] <concept10> You think so?
[07:23] <g14> Why would I want an apache configuration tool on my dns server?
[07:23] <g14> theoraticly
[07:24] <concept10> Im not talking about wrapping all, just some tools that relate
[07:24] <g14> Like what?
[07:25] <concept10> I have no plan yet
[07:26] <concept10> I just think that system-config tools should be in one wrapper. Kind of like mandrivas tools, but not as noobish as mandrake
[07:26] <mdz> fabbione: it is fine to update the existing status column in the table
[07:26] <g14> Concept yast is the all in one admin tool
[07:26] <jsgotangco> hello
[07:27] <concept10> yast2 is gpl'd now, how do you like it?
[07:27] <g14> concept10, They have a yast4debian project, but its not very mature
[07:27] <g14> I like the very similar gui and tui interfaces
[07:27] <concept10> g14: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/GraphicalConfigTools
[07:29] <g14> brb
[07:29] <concept10> me too.....
[07:37] <infinity> mdz : Would anyone (you?) scream loudly if I suggested adding "smbfs" to the desktop seed?
[07:37] <Lathiat> but all applicatiosn should support gnomevfs!
[07:38] <g14> Great idea, add gnome-vfs support to cp and mv </troll>
[07:40] <Lathiat> gnomevfs-cp !
[07:41] <g14> No, just submit the patches to gnu
[07:41] <g14> RMS would have a heartattack
[07:51] <jsgotangco> ogra hey
[08:11] <doko> morning all
[08:13] <fabbione> hi doko
[08:13] <fabbione> specially for the fun of trying :P
[08:13] <fabbione> ops
[08:17] <ajmitch_> hi doko, fabbione 
[08:27] <fabbione> elmo, thom: can you please install xmlto on halley/hoary chroot?
[08:27] <fabbione> (or see if you can bootstrap a breezy chroot)
[08:28] <cartman> anyone knows if its possible to provide non-nptl setup for amd64 machines in breezy ?
[08:28] <mdz> infinity: I'd say that it should probably be discussed on the mailing list first
[08:29] <bob2> cartman: chroot
[08:29] <fabbione> cartman: i doubt...
[08:29] <bob2> I'm almost ceetain amd64 has never supported linuxthreads
[08:29] <fabbione> you will need old glibc
[08:29] <cartman> bob2: without that I mean native 64bit one
[08:29] <bob2> Mithrandir: does amd64 support linuxthreads at all?
[08:29] <cartman> ah
[08:29] <lifeless> minghua: AIUI yes
[08:29] <cartman> http://www.mathworks.com/support/solutions/data/1-QVND8.html?solution=1-QVND8 <-- why I ask
[08:30] <lifeless> bob2: erm, inversion - I meant no.
[08:30] <fabbione> elmo, thom: can you also please update binutils on concordia/breezy chroot?
[08:32] <fabbione> meh
[08:32] <fabbione> elmo, thom: xmlto on davis/breezy chroot please :)
[08:33] <minghua> lifeless: thanks
[08:33] <lifeless> minghua: uhm sorry dude, I was answer bob2. my fingers fouled
[08:34] <minghua> lifeless: Err, okay. :-)
[08:36] <fabbione> doko: can you /j #ubuntu-kernel please
[08:43] <pitti> Morning
[08:45] <doko> morning pitti
[08:45] <doko> does the wiki on ubuntu has a page documenting the moin wiki format?
[08:48] <pitti> Hi jsgotangco 
[08:48] <jsgotangco> pitti hey
[09:01] <Mithrandir> bob2: no.
[09:01] <Mithrandir> bob2: it's nptl only
[09:01] <Mithrandir> bob2: at least in Debian and Ubuntu, I don't know about RH and SuSE.
[09:15] <cc> Mithrandir: fedora/rh is nptl only. no more linuxthreads (if that was the Q)
[09:15] <Mithrandir> cc: Thanks.  (And yes, that was the question.)
[09:16] <fabbione> elmo/thom: can you pleae install 2.6.12 build-deps on davis/breezy-ppc64 chroot?
[09:18] <fabbione> doko: i guess it is still not safe to build the kernel with gcc4, right?
[09:20] <zyga> hello
[09:20] <zyga> symphonyos has a torrent if anyone is interested in having a look
[09:20] <Burgundavia> zyga, oh?
[09:20] <Burgundavia> zyga, live or install?
[09:21] <zyga> Burgundavia: live I presume
[09:21] <zyga> want a link?
[09:21] <Burgundavia> sure
[09:21] <zyga> (it's darn fast torrent)
[09:21] <zyga> http://www.symphonyos.com/torrents/btdownload.php?type=torrent&file=symphonyos-alpha-070.iso.torrent&PHPSESSID=c899b35b8b1e8f1d52ee872ae14b2d8c
[09:22] <zyga> http://www.symphonyos.com/trademarks.html (policy they ask everyone who downloads to read)
[09:23] <doko> fabbione: I never tried ...
[09:23] <zyga> Burgundavia: it's possible to install it to disk but It's a live cd
[09:29] <Burgundavia> zyga, cool, thanks
[09:29] <jsgotangco> hmm
[09:45] <Kamion> morning
[09:45] <Kamion> doko: HelpOnEditing
[09:46] <fabbione> morning Kamion
[09:47] <fabbione> YAY
[09:47] <fabbione> Kamion: go for it!
[09:47] <fabbione> i am all high up to remove -it- .it langpacks
[09:47] <Kamion> ... not the reaction I expected
[09:47] <doko> Kamion: hmm, couldn't find something to escape a '] '
[09:48] <doko> Kamion: so you're building a CD before Monday?
[09:48] <Kamion> doko: hope so
[09:48] <Kamion> few more things to sort out today
[09:49] <fabbione> Kamion: did you have time to upload partman-lvm-auto?
[09:50] <doko> seb128: is the naming scheme for gnome library packages (appending -#) upstream, or a Debian thing?
[09:50] <seb128> debian
[09:52] <fabbione> who feels very very lucky today?
[09:52] <fabbione> (and has an amd64 handy?)
[09:53] <zyga> fabbione: hmmm
[09:53] <zyga> fabbione: how lucky exactly?
[09:53] <fabbione> zyga: a lot :)
[09:54] <zyga> fabbione: what are you going to test?
[09:54] <fabbione> amd64 kernel compiled with gcc-4.0
[09:54] <fabbione> it might boot, it might not
[09:54] <fabbione> it can eat your system or not
[09:54] <fabbione> no idea
[09:54] <Kamion> fabbione: not yet
[09:55] <fabbione> Kamion: ok thanks
[09:55] <Kamion> fabbione: might leave it 'til after Colony 1, haven't decided yet
[09:55] <zyga> fabbione: just give me a package
[09:56] <fabbione> Kamion: is the source in SVN? i just want to start to look at it. not to push it hard in the archive
[09:56] <fabbione> zyga: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/
[09:56] <fabbione> zyga: there is only one image there
[09:56] <Kamion> fabbione: svn://svn.debian.org/d-i/trunk/packages/partman/partman-lvm-auto/
[09:56] <fabbione> be sure to have another kernel installed to recover.. in case
[09:56] <fabbione> Kamion: thanks
[09:56] <Kamion> er, or not
[09:56] <Kamion> fabbione: svn://svn.debian.org/d-i/trunk/packages/partman/partman-auto-lvm/
[09:57] <fabbione> ehhe
[09:58] <Kamion> seb128: any chance of a gst-plugins0.8 built against libflac7?
[09:59] <seb128> Kamion: sure, I'll have a look now
[09:59] <zyga> fabbione: fetching
[09:59] <Kamion> ta
[09:59] <pitti> elmo: imagemagick sync, please
[10:01] <fabbione> Kamion: i did an attempt to debootstrap breezy.buildd on sparc and i got a few missing stuff around.. http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/deboot.diff
[10:01] <fabbione> Kamion: in details: required adds gcc-4.0-base and base adds: cpp-4.0 and gcc-4.0
[10:02] <bob2> does Fedora still use kudzu?
[10:02] <fabbione> Kamion: + the specific sparc stuff
[10:04] <zyga> fabbione: test in 3 minutes
[10:05] <Kamion> fabbione: thanks, I'll upload
[10:05] <fabbione> Kamion: it's tested only on sparc tho
[10:05] <fabbione> but i thing the gcc-4 changes are ok on other arches too
[10:06] <zyga> reboot
[10:09] <fabbione> Kamion: some good news on #u-k.. we can start dropping some ppc images as soon as i get the ppc64 versions
[10:09] <Kamion> fabbione: actually, go ahead and upload that debootstrap - there are no other changes I need to do so no point in me pulling down your diff
[10:09] <fabbione> down to 4 images :)
[10:09] <zyga> fabbione: seems to work fine
[10:09] <Kamion> fabbione: we'll just need powerpc and ppc64, I'd expect?
[10:09] <Kamion> er, plus -smp
[10:09] <fabbione> zyga: can you please run it for a while?
[10:09] <zyga> fabbione: sure
[10:10] <zyga> No pro!@#@$^%#
[10:10] <fabbione> Kamion: we agreed with svenl/benh: ppc32 -> powerpc{,-smp}, pseries-smp and iseries-smp
[10:10] <zyga> ;-)
[10:10] <fabbione> Kamion: benh sais there is no point in UP kenrel for the others
[10:10] <Kamion> fabbione: 'k, sounds sensible
[10:10] <Kamion> so I guess I build d-i from powerpc and pseries-smp
[10:10] <fabbione> and iseries :(
[10:10] <Kamion> (there isn't complete iseries-smp support in d-i yet)
[10:11] <fabbione> iseries won't boot with pseries kernels apparently
[10:13] <zyga> fabbione: It's probably my imagination but it seemed to boot slightly faster than the previous 2.6.10
[10:13] <fabbione> zyga: it might...
[10:13] <Treenaks> it has timing info in the kernel log messages now
[10:13] <zyga> fabbione: less stuff to do or gcc-4 really optimized things?
[10:14] <fabbione> no idea
[10:14] <fabbione> zyga: without benchmarks there is no real "faster/slower" than 
[10:14] <Kamion> fabbione: somebody sent a couple of iseries patches to debian-boot@ ages back, and I think most of them got applied, but AFAIK the job wasn't finished
[10:14] <fabbione> Kamion: no rush.. i need to get the changes in the kernel first
[10:15] <Kamion> I'm not going to spend significant amounts of my time worrying about it :)
[10:15] <Kamion> fabbione: will pseries-smp boot on G5s?
[10:16] <Kamion> if so, that seems like kind of a misleading name
[10:16] <fabbione> Kamion: ENOCLUE.. that's what svenl/benh are telling me
[10:16] <Kamion> it must do, powerpc won't
[10:16] <fabbione> i tend to trust what benh says
[10:16] <fabbione> (even via svenl ;))
[10:17] <Kamion> could you ask them about that? I feel uncomfortable having to tell G5 users to boot a pseries kernel :)
[10:17] <fabbione> sorry svenl.. couldn't resist :P
[10:19] <fabbione> Kamion: svenl says it does
[10:25] <infinity> You could just go for purely generic names, like Debian's HPPA kernels.
[10:26] <infinity> (2.6.12-32{,-smp}, 2.6.12-64{,-smp})
[10:37] <elmo> pitti: nothing to sync
[10:37] <elmo> fabbione: mostly done, except breezy-ppc64, which err, seems to be broken
[10:37] <pitti> elmo: oh, already done, thanks
[10:38] <fabbione> elmo: thanks
[10:39] <elmo> pitti: eh, manually?
[10:39] <seb128> I've several packages ftbfsing with a "/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lstdc++" error
[10:39] <pitti> elmo: no, I mean, obviously somebody asked faster than me
[10:39] <seb128> anybody feeling to give me a hand on how to track what's wrong?
[10:39] <elmo> pitti: ah, ok
[10:39] <seb128> I've no clue on how to fix that :/
[10:40] <seb128> the packages have not changed, so that's due to a toolchain or pkg-config or something change
[10:41] <Kamion> infinity: the purely generic names are actually kind of a pain - given a package name, you can't figure out what architecture it's for easily - and you might well end up with totally different packages for different architectures but with the same name
[10:41] <seb128> sound-juicer is an example of such package
[10:41] <Mithrandir> seb128: pkg-config doesn't touch any of that.  It should be automatically detected based on whether you're compiling with g++ or gcc, I think?
[10:41] <mvo> elmo: sync libogg please (our changes are in now)
[10:42] <seb128> Mithrandir: that's c++ code build with gcc apparently
[10:42] <elmo> mvo: done
[10:42] <seb128> Mithrandir: and that used to work ... any idea on how to fix it?
[10:43] <Mithrandir> seb128: not really, no.  Wave some magic wand or drag doko in to fix it.
[10:43] <seb128> doko: ping? :)
[10:43] <\sh> seb128: libstdc++ is on your system? 
[10:43] <seb128> sure
[10:43] <\sh> for which version? 
[10:43] <seb128> the Build-Depends are correct
[10:44] <fabbione> Kamion: ok, what do you prefer to have as name schema?
[10:44] <infinity> Kamion : Erm.  But with any package in Debian, you can't determine the arch from the name (only the filename)... Why are kernels meant to be special in this case? :)
[10:44] <seb128> \sh: libstdc++.so.5.0.7  libstdc++.so.6.0.4
[10:44] <seb128> \sh: ie libstdc++5 and libstdc++6
[10:45] <seb128> ---------
[10:45] <seb128> but I'm pretty sure that's due to a gcc4 change
[10:46] <infinity> seb128 : The problem is you're using "gcc -lstdc++" which is a) wrong, and b) won't work when gcc and g++ are mismatched (as they currently are in breezy, 4.0 versus 3.3)
[10:46] <doko> seb128: yes, infinity is right
[10:46] <infinity> seb128 : It should magically start working again after the c++ transition, but that's not really "fixed".
[10:46] <seb128> k, I've a bunch of GNOME packages doing this 
[10:47] <\sh> gtkmm stuff? ,-)
[10:47] <seb128> what should be do to solve the properly?
[10:47] <seb128> no
[10:47] <seb128> gst-plugins0.8 by example
[10:47] <doko> seb128: link with g++
[10:47] <infinity> seb128 : If they're pure C applications linking with C++ libs, link with g++.
[10:47] <infinity> seb128 : If they're pure C linking with something that accidentally pulled in a C++ dep earlier up the chain, fix the thing earlier on. :)
[10:48] <infinity> seb128 : If it's C++, build with g++.
[10:48] <seb128> sound-juicer is a C app
[10:48] <seb128> try to figure what pulls the cpp part
[10:48] <doko> seb128: and depends on which lib?
[10:49] <infinity> seb128 : Remove the -lstdc++ and see what breaks.  It will fail to link if it thinks it needs it.
[10:49] <infinity> seb128 : Might also make hunting down the source a bit faster. :)
[10:50] <doko> seb128: yes, listed on http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CxxApplicationList
[10:51] <doko> seb128: certainly libmusicbrainz4 and liborbit2
[10:51] <seb128_> hum, dsl IP change
 seb128: and depends on which lib?
[10:51] <zyga> hmm
[10:51] <seb128_> if you said something after that please repeat :)
[10:51] <seb128_> liborbit2 is not cpp afaik
[10:51] <zyga> when did 'places' menu got 'bookmarks' item?
[10:51] <seb128_> 2.10
[10:52] <infinity> seb128_ : Start randomly removing all the manually-insertedf "-lstdc++" from your packages, and see which ones break and why.
[10:52] <doko> seb128_: look at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CxxLibraryList for the list of libraries
[10:52] <infinity> seb128_ : There's no change of a broken build, things will just fail to link if they need it.
[10:52] <infinity> s/change/chance/
[10:52] <zyga> seb128_: I've noticed it today, it was not there for a long time after installing 2.10
[10:52] <seb128_> zyga: no, it's here since 2.10
[10:52] <infinity> mysql has this bug too, but upstream's solution is perverse.
[10:52] <zyga> seb128_: strange, maybe it depends on number of items in my bookmarks
[10:52] <Kamion> infinity: kernels are different because we're talking radically different configs here - it's rare for "32-bit or 64-bit" to be the only significant difference, e.g. in the case of powerpc there are two 64-bit kernels, so calling it -64 would just be confusing
[10:53] <Kamion> fabbione: I don't have a clear preference, that's why I was asking to ask benh if he was sure about the pseries name for something that boots on G5 :)
[10:53] <infinity> Kamion : But one shold be the "generic 64 bit kernel" (for G5, RS/6000, pSeries), and the other is a specialty.
[10:54] <infinity> Kamion : Nothing wrong with calling the other "-64-iseries" or just "-iseries", since only people with an iSeries machine will be looking for it.
[10:54] <elmo> doko: breezy-ppc64 is FUBAR - do you have the debs handy so I can reinstall?
[10:54] <Kamion> infinity: the -64 just makes my brain hurt, that's all - ppc64 and ppc64-iseries would be good though
[10:55] <Kamion> or -ppc64 and -iseries
[10:55] <infinity> Kamion : Fair enough.
[10:55] <seb128_> src/Makefile:MUSICBRAINZ_LIBS = -lmusicbrainz -lstdc++ -lm
[10:55] <seb128_> k, that's due to that lib
[10:55] <seb128_> thanks infinity & doko 
[10:55] <infinity> Great, and why is THAT one linked with stdc++?
[10:55] <infinity> (Keep digging!_
[10:56] <Kamion> ooh, powerpc CD fits
[10:56] <doko> elmo: on davis:~doko/gcc/install and p.u.c:~jbailey/glibc (the latter I don't know exactly)
[10:56] <elmo> ah, well it's glibc's that's screwed
[10:56] <infinity> Kamion : But only in English... With the new desktop called "bash"?
[10:56] <elmo> I'll wait for jbailey to be around before trying to repair it
[10:56] <infinity> Kamion : And your choice of 400 kernels?
[10:57] <koke> is there any documentation about dm snapshots in any place?? I can't find it :(
[10:57] <seb128_> infinity: 
 as i'm a fool
 and it works for me
 stupid breezy
[10:58] <Kamion> infinity: heh
[10:58] <Kamion> infinity: we're down one kernel and one language on hoary
[10:58] <infinity> doko : If we hold off on the transition for another week, we could find and fix all these bugs.. (they'll go underground again as soon as gcc/g++ match)
[10:59] <seb128_> infinity: at this point I understand the bug, but I'm not sure on how to fix it ;)
[11:00] <doko> infinity: you only find these, if you recompile all apps, you can't garantee this for the next week
[11:00] <infinity> seb128_ : Either stop linking something with stdc++ if it doesn't need it (you'll be able to tell if it does, the linker will cry), or link with g++ instead of gcc.
[11:00] <seb128_> I need the second option
[11:00] <doko> it's a nice to have, but we really don't need it.
[11:00] <infinity> seb128_ : Or, if you're lazy, wait for the g++ transition, which will hide your bug again.
[11:01] <seb128_> linking with g++ would mean to modify the autotools files and run the autotools?
[11:01] <doko> seb128_: but file a bug report to Debian ...
[11:01] <infinity> Quite possibly.
[11:01] <seb128_> doko: how will that help? :)
[11:01] <seb128_> doko: I prefer to bug upstream directly
[11:02] <seb128_> since that's an upstream issue
[11:02] <doko> yep, that's better
[11:02] <infinity> I like MySQL's solution to this bug.  "Stop building our C++ apps with g++, and use CXX=gcc instead, we don't want to link stdc++ anyway"
[11:02] <infinity> Scary, but true.  It's in the upstream README.
[11:03] <bob2> wow
[11:03] <infinity> (That gets around an issue where later in the build, a C app links in one of the previously-compiled C++ objects, which is linked with stdc++)
[11:03] <jsgotangco> hey JaneW_ 
[11:06] <seb128_> infinity: gstreamer upstreams blame libtool
[11:06] <Kamion> infinity: I've worked on a different project that deliberately didn't use stdc++ for C++ code, similarly
[11:07] <Kamion> we linked with libsupc++ to get basic language stuff
[11:07] <infinity> Kamion : Oh, after I wrapped my head around it, what MySQL said made some modicum of sense.  It still hurt to read it, initially.
[11:07] <JaneW_> hi jsgotangco 
[11:07] <Kamion> in this case it was a C++ program dating from c. 1994 when the standard library really wasn't remotely standard or deployed
[11:07] <infinity> They write specifically to avoid dependencies on stdc++.
[11:08] <Kamion> well, it was "standard"
[11:08] <Kamion> so we had our own library
[11:08] <Kamion> and given the random suckiness of libstdc++ on a lot of platforms, yeah, it did make sense
[11:09] <bob2> is it less crap on other arches nowadays?
[11:11] <infinity> I don't know if the people who've been avoiding it all this time can be bothered to go test if it's okay now.
[11:11] <bob2> hah
[11:11] <Kamion> platforms, not arches. e.g. HP-UX 11
[11:11] <infinity> If their current solution works, why break it?
[11:11] <bob2> ahh
[11:11] <Mithrandir> infinity: that's the attitude which brought us libtool. :P
[11:12] <infinity> Mithrandir : Oh, I know.
[11:12] <Lathiat> hahaha
[11:12] <Kamion> yeah, plus the libraries that get written in such environments tend to be fairly performance-critical, and with a totally different API - this wasn't a reimplementation of libstdc++, it was a fundamentally different library, so swapping in libstdc++ isn't really an option for such people :)
[11:12] <Kamion> hence why libsupc++ came into being
[11:19] <seb128> Kamion: the gst-plugins0.8 rebuild with the new flac can wait a week or not? it ftbfs due to this cpp/gcc/libstdc issue atm
[11:22] <Kamion> seb128: I can't build working CDs without it
[11:22] <Kamion> so ideally not
[11:22] <seb128> bah, somebody needs to help me so
[11:23] <seb128> I understand the issue, but gst-plugins0.8 is a big piece and I've no clue on how to fix that
[11:23] <seb128> forcing it to use gcc-3.3 for the moment?
[11:29] <jdub> UBUNTU: NOT AS THICK AS WINDOWS
[11:30] <\sh> what?
[11:30] <jsgotangco> ?
[11:30] <Seveas> lol jdub :)
[11:30] <Kamion> seb128: if it's the easiest way ...
[11:31] <seb128> Kamion: k, I'll fix a way or an another
[11:32] <seb128> graaah, not my day
[11:32] <Kamion> yeah, sorry :/
[11:32] <seb128> Mithrandir: are you going to fix pkg-config soon?
[11:32] <Kamion> hm, wonder what's up with gnome-themes
[11:32] <seb128> I've a couple of another ftbfs due to that
[11:33] <seb128> Kamion: what about this one? :)
[11:33] <Kamion> seb128: missing gtk2-engines-{crux,lighthouseblue} by the looks of things
[11:34] <seb128> Kamion: I guess that's not right time to roll a CD, what about the dbus transition? I guess than some package are not updated yet?
[11:35] <Kamion> seb128: no time is very good - but I really want to get one out before the C++ transition starts, otherwise I get screwed for a week
[11:35] <seb128> gtk2-engines (1:2.6.3-1ubuntu1) breezy; urgency=low
[11:35] <seb128>   * Sync with Debian.
[11:35] <seb128>   * debian/control.in:
[11:35] <seb128>     - gtk2-engines-dev is not useful, gtk2-engines-industrial 
[11:35] <seb128>       and gtk2-engines-smooth have other source.
[11:35] <seb128> 
[11:35] <Kamion> a few things still need to be updated for the dbus transition, yeah
[11:35] <seb128> oh, no, your issue is crux and lighthouseblue
[11:35] <Kamion> I'm working my way through the uninstallables list
[11:35] <seb128> hum
[11:36] <seb128> sound-juicer needs an update too, and is bitten by this gcc/libstdc stuff too
[11:36] <seb128> I'll fix that
[11:36] <Treenaks> gnome-volume-manager has (had?) build-dep problems (bzip2)
[11:36] <elmo> seb128: btw, gnome-vfs isn't waiting on me for me, right?
[11:37] <seb128> elmo: what about gnome-vfs? 
[11:37] <elmo> it's uninstallable atm, on at least 2 architectures
[11:37] <Mithrandir> seb128: uploaded.
[11:37] <elmo> due to dbus, I think
[11:38] <Mithrandir> seb128: sorry for taking so long :/
[11:38] <jdub> seb128: did you kill gtk2-engines-dev?
[11:38] <Kamion> I think some builds just need to be retried for dbus
[11:38] <Kamion> epiphany-browser looks like one of those
[11:38] <seb128> jdub: yep
[11:39] <jdub> seb128: heh - going to patch gnome-themes to ignore it? :)
[11:39] <seb128> jdub: the only file here was a stupid useless .pc file
[11:39] <seb128> jdub: already done, no?
[11:39] <seb128> Josselin did that for Debian, and I've merged changes
[11:39] <jdub> cool
[11:39] <jdub> stupid, stupid idiocy ;)
[11:43] <Kamion> dilinger: what's the right thing to do with ndiswrapper-utils' dependency on ndiswrapper-modules-1.1 for Ubuntu? I thought our default kernel included the ndiswrapper module
[11:44] <KaiL_> Kamion: 2.6.10 contains the 1.0 modules, 2.6.12 the 1.1 modules
[11:44] <fabbione> Kamion: i did add the Provides from the kernel...
[11:44] <Kamion> KaiL_: point is that ndiswrapper-utils is uninstallable on Ubuntu at the moment
[11:44] <Kamion> fabbione: ah
[11:45] <fabbione> Kamion: but that's with 2.6.12
[11:45] <Kamion> so it'll probably get fixed when we switch the CDs to 2.6.12
[11:45] <Kamion> fine, it's only ship
[11:45] <fabbione> Provides: linux, linux-image, linux-image-2.6, ndiswrapper-modules-1.1
[11:45] <fabbione> yup
[11:45] <fabbione> i want to wait for 12 final before switching
[11:45] <Kamion> bit nasty for packages to depend on the kernel package though
[11:45] <fabbione> that should happen pretty soon
[11:46] <Kamion> people compile their own kernels (even still ...)
[11:47] <KaiL_> any better idea? ndiswrapper-utils 1.1 is useless with the 1.0 modules, so..
[11:48] <Kamion> it's pretty normal for packages not to depend on kernel interfaces
[11:48] <Kamion> and to error at run-time if necessary
[11:49] <Kamion> (although obviously tolerating both old and new interfaces is much better)
[11:49] <seb128> elmo: hum, sorry, gnome-vfs2 you mean? What the error?
[11:49] <seb128> elmo: according to http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/g/gnome-vfs2/2.10.1cvs20050510-0ubuntu2/ it builds fine
[11:49] <seb128> what archis?
[11:51] <elmo> seb128: uh, never mind sorry.  clearly I'm on crack - or it got fixed since I last tried 2 cron.dailies ago
[11:52] <seb128> elmo: k
[11:54] <doko> seb128: is the naming scheme for gnome library packages (appending -#) upstream, or a Debian thing?
[11:54] <seb128> I've already replied this morning
[11:54] <seb128> debian
[11:54] <seb128> ;)
[11:54] <seb128> why?
[11:55] <mvo> elmo: sharutils sync please (override ok)
[11:56] <elmo> mvo: done
[11:56] <mvo> elmo: thanks
[11:56] <Kamion> seb128: gst-plugins0.8 seemed to build fine for me in a current breezy chroot? (powerpc)
[11:57] <seb128> weird
[11:57] <seb128> it "/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lstdc++" on my box
[11:57] <Kamion> thought I'd give it a go to see if I could fix the problems, but there weren't any :-)
[11:57] <Kamion> mind you that's "current" with respect to my mirror, which may be a day or so out
[11:58] <seb128> I don't think this is due to a change this week
[11:58] <seb128> lemme try again
[11:58] <seb128> anyway I've a package just built using gcc-3.3
[12:01] <thom> AARGH CDBS I HATE YOU
[12:05] <thom> -e "s/@cdbs@/cdbs (>= 0.4.23-1.1), debhelper (>= 4.1.0), quilt, patchutils, cdbs (>= 0.4.27-1)/g" ; i mean, WHY?
[12:06] <pitti> what the hell... ?
[12:07] <seb128> thom: why not? :)
[12:08] <thom> seb128: cdbs dep twice?
[12:08] <thom> (and generating control files is just blaaaargh anyway)
[12:08] <seb128> oh, that would be a bug :)
[12:08] <seb128> I thought you were complaining about the @cdbs@ magic
[12:10] <thom> well, i am. but mostly the bug ;-)
[12:12] <seb128> complain to jbailey :p
[12:12] <seb128> Kamion: 
[12:12] <seb128>  cc -shared  .libs/libgsttrm_la-gsttrm.o  -L/usr/lib -pthread /usr/lib/libgstreamer-0.8.so -lmusicbrainz -lstdc++ -lm  -Wl,--export-dynamic -Wl,-soname -Wl,libgsttrm.so -Wl,-version-script -Wl,.libs/libgsttrm.ver -o .libs/libgsttrm.so
[12:12] <seb128> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lstdc++
[12:12] <seb128> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
[12:12] <seb128> -lmusicbrainz again
[12:12] <seb128> dunno why you don't get the issue
[12:13] <pitti> seb128: maybe you need libstdc++6-dev?
[12:13] <seb128> pitti: no, already discussed with doko and infinity 
[12:14] <seb128> pitti: that's C code and app using gcc to link cpp code instead of g++
[12:14] <Lathiat> can i get apt to explain to me why installing the new dbus causes vlc to be removed?
[12:14] <seb128> which doesn't work when gcc and g++ version are differents
[12:14] <seb128> Lathiat: because it depends on the old one?
[12:14] <Lathiat> well it doesnt, thats the thing
[12:14] <seb128> Depends: aalib1 (>= 1.2), dbus-1 (>= 0.23.4),
[12:15] <seb128> here
[12:15] <Lathiat> oh, it does?
[12:15] <seb128> sure
[12:15] <Lathiat> i am blind.
[12:15] <seb128> apt-cache show vlc
[12:15] <pitti> apt-cache rdepends dbus-1
[12:15] <pitti> -> everything that still needs to be fixed
[12:16] <Lathiat> yarr
[12:16] <pitti> xterminal, vlc, gpe-contacts, screem, kdebase-kio-plugins, bluez-utils, bluez-pin
[12:17] <Lathiat> skype uses dbus?
[12:17] <Lathiat> wtf
[12:17] <Lathiat> theres all this crack that seems to use dbus i didnt know about
[12:17] <tseng> hm and skype is binary only right?
[12:17] <Lathiat> yeh
[12:17] <Lathiat> sucks to be skype :)
[12:17] <jsgotangco> yeah
[12:17] <tseng> thats pretty suck
[12:17] <jsgotangco> hah
[12:17] <tseng> way to never work against a users dbus
[12:18] <Lathiat> i just wonder wtf it uses it for
[12:18] <Lathiat> i also wonder what vlc uses it for
[12:18] <zyga> Lathiat: for pluggable micrpohones and headsets
[12:18] <zyga> Lathiat: it's somewhere on the skype website
[12:18] <Lathiat> hotplug emits events?
[12:18] <zyga> Lathiat: also look for skype files in /etc/hal-stuff
[12:19] <pitti> Lathiat: that's one of it's basic purposes
[12:19] <pitti> Lathiat: hal picks them up from hotplug and distributes them over dbus
[12:19] <zyga> Lathiat: /etc/dbus-stuff
[12:19] <Lathiat> ah ok
[12:19] <zyga> anyway this suxx, I use skype all the time :/
[12:20] <Lathiat> :\
[12:20] <Lathiat> thats what you get for using closed source crap thats better than existing open source solutions. ;)
[12:21] <zyga> Lathiat: that's for properiarity user catalogs in instant message networks
[12:21] <zyga> Lathiat: but you are right too, skype is superior technically to anything else ATM
[12:22] <Lathiat> unfortunately
[12:22] <Lathiat> its not like enough to do it doesnt exist
[12:22] <zyga> maybe we could get them to recompile their package
[12:22] <Lathiat> just no ones put it together
[12:22] <Treenaks> zyga: if they only opened up the protocol
[12:23] <zyga> Treenaks: I think they don't want to do that for a very good reason
[12:23] <zyga> Treenaks: skype relies on fair clients that act as proxies
[12:23] <Treenaks> zyga: so? bittorrent too
[12:23] <zyga> Treenaks: once skype clones appear people could just turn the proxying off
[12:23] <zyga> Treenaks: yes but then the quality of skype goes down rapidily
[12:23] <Lathiat> so they just need to make the network not let them make calls if they aren tproxying
[12:23] <zyga> also there is the issue of properiarity codecs they licensed
[12:24] <KaiL_> who updates the update-notifier? (...wonderful sentence...)
[12:24] <jsgotangco> bye bye
[12:24] <Lathiat> bittorrnet has issues with leachers
[12:24] <mvo> KaiL_: that's me
[12:24] <Lathiat> unfortunately
[12:24] <zyga> KaiL_: mvo 
[12:24] <Treenaks> KaiL_: "Et tu, synaptic" ?
[12:24] <zyga> mvo: hello :)
[12:24] <jsgotangco> heh
[12:24] <Lathiat> however the community has meant that most trackers ban clients that have features that work against the network
[12:24] <mvo> hey zyga, hey Treenaks 
[12:24] <jsgotangco> hey mvo, bye mvo
[12:24] <Treenaks> hi mvo 
[12:24] <Kamion> seb128: odd that I don't, oh well
[12:25] <zyga> Lathiat: well... then I guess the people who built kazaa just don't want you to look at their things :/
[12:25] <seb128> Kamion: I've uploaded the version using gcc-3.3
[12:25] <zyga> mvo: are you planning an update to update-manager anytime soon?
[12:25] <Kamion> seb128: thanks, that's great
[12:26] <mvo> zyga: michiel has some gui ideas, available at http://blogs.gnome.org/nb.cgi/view/michiels/2005/05/10/0
[12:26] <mvo> zyga: and it will support dist-upgrades
[12:26] <zyga> mvo: interesting, I look forward to it
[12:29] <KaiL_> could somebody explain the relations between splashy and usplash?
[12:31] <sladen> KaiL_: usplash is set of ideas/specification for what is required.  'splashy' is somebody program based on some of those ideas, but not all of them.
[12:31] <\sh> mvo: hmmm...
[12:31] <KaiL_> sladen: ah
[12:31] <\sh> mvo: we should see, that the gnome-frontend and the kde-frontend will behave the same :)
[12:32] <KaiL_> \sh: then start hacking
[12:32] <mvo> \sh: oh yes
[12:33] <\sh> KaiL_: hehe :)
[12:33] <\sh> KaiL_: first of all, the backend has to be done :)
[12:34] <mvo> \sh: a lot is going on in the python-apt--mvo branch of this work
[12:34] <\sh> mvo: updated today ;)
[12:34] <mvo> \sh: :)
[12:34] <\sh> look at this one: http://ardour.org/ really amazing application
[12:35] <mvo> Kamion: where is the code for the d-i language-selector available? I would like to have a look at it
[12:36] <Kamion> mvo: localechooser package
[12:36] <zyga> mvo: I'll mail you the translation if you don't mind
[12:36] <mvo> Kamion: thanks
[12:37] <mvo> zyga: plesae do that, thanks :)
[12:39] <\sh> so..everybody in NRW, Germany will have EPG data for the new tv.gusto tv channel in a couple of minutes ,-)
[12:40] <Lathiat> epg?
[12:41] <KaiL_> i thought tv.gusto is for the usefull 30min/day of tv.nrw?
[12:41] <\sh> KaiL_: no :) it's a 24 hour service in ish plus tv :)
[12:41] <KaiL_> ...or 30min/week? :)
[12:42] <KaiL_> do you work somewhere there?
[12:42] <\sh> Lathiat: Electronic Programm Guide ;)
[12:42] <\sh> KaiL_: jupp...working for ish in kerpen
[12:43] <\sh> bon appetite :)
[12:43] <KaiL_> EPG = information what this channel planned to show 1 week ago :)
[12:44] <\sh> but this is the consumer description ;) the technical term is "EIT p/f" and "EIT schedule" ... EIT== Event Information Table :) now u got a shot excourse of Digital TV..:) thx ;)
[12:45] <\sh> s/shot/short/
[12:46] <seb128> pitti: dbus issues are for you or daniels?
[12:46] <pitti> daniels
[12:46] <seb128> k
[12:46] <seb128> to assign #10649 
[12:48] <pitti> dhcpd    29602  0.0  0.2   2768  1544 ?        Ss   12:46   0:00 /usr/sbin/dhcpd3 -q eth1 -pf /var/run/dhcp3-server/dhcpd.pid
[12:49] <pitti> cool, another root process less
[12:49] <Kamion> is g-v-m in the process of being fixed (to be installable)?
[12:49] <pitti> erm, it should be installable?
[12:49] <pitti> Kamion: what breaks?
[12:49] <zyga> seb128: do you maintain gtranslator/
[12:49] <KaiL_> pitti: dbus, what else?
[12:49] <Kamion> pitti: no idea, just looking at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/report.html
[12:50] <pitti> Kamion: oh, that's old; the new version is 1.3.1
[12:50] <pitti> Kamion: will probably be fixed tomorrow when it uses updated binaries
[12:50] <pitti> Kamion: I uploaded the crack yesterday around noon
[12:50] <Kamion> er, that's today's build
[12:50] <pitti> $ apt-cache show gnome-volume-manager | grep ^Version
[12:50] <pitti> Version: 1.3.1-0ubuntu1
[12:50] <Kamion> 1.3.1 failed to build
[12:51] <Kamion> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/g/gnome-volume-manager/1.3.1-0ubuntu1/
[12:51] <pitti> uh, thanks for pointing me out...
[12:52] <Kamion> tar: bzip2: Cannot exec: No such file or directory
[12:52] <Kamion> looks like a missing build-dep
[12:52] <pitti> tar -C build-tree  -xjf gnome-volume-manager-1.3.1.tar.bz2
[12:52] <pitti> tar: bzip2: Cannot exec: No such file or directory
[12:52] <pitti> hmmm
[12:52] <pitti> WTF?
[12:52] <Kamion> you have to build-dep on bzip2
[12:53] <Kamion> it's not build-essential
[12:53] <seb128> zyga: not really, why?
[12:53] <pitti> aah
[12:53] <zyga> seb128: there's one very nasty bug in it 
[12:53] <zyga> seb128: I don't want to send it via bugzilla, rather fix it myself
[12:53] <seb128> ie? hoary or breezy?
[12:53] <zyga> seb128: breezy
[12:53] <seb128> why not using malone?
[12:53] <KaiL_> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/report.html << does such a page exist for kubuntu too?
[12:53] <zyga> seb128: n-plurals is truncated (only one line is read)
[12:53] <zyga> seb128: malone?
[12:54] <Kamion> KaiL_: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily/current/report.html, but I haven't started building Kubuntu breezy CDs yet
[12:54] <seb128> zyga: the bug tracker for universe
[12:54] <seb128> launchap.ubuntu.com/malone
[12:54] <Kamion> "daily" currently means "whenever Kamion runs cron.daily" - I haven't turned the autobuilds back on yet
[12:54] <seb128> oh, gstranslator is main
[12:54] <seb128> use bugzilla then
[12:54] <Kamion> KaiL_: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/breezy_probs.html is probably more useful
[12:55] <zyga> seb128: I was wondering wether you'd apply a pach to debian patches stuff it this is easy enough for me to fix
[12:56] <seb128> zyga: I would send the patch to the Debian maintainer and sync with the fixed package from Debian
[12:56] <zyga> seb128: fine enough for me :)
[12:56] <tseng> pitti: my email.. want me to build that and test it today?
[12:56] <tseng> pitti: we use ethereal alot at work.
[12:56] <pitti> tseng: which one? ethereal?
[12:56] <tseng> yes
[12:57] <Lathiat> what for, ooc?
[12:57] <seb128> zyga: debian has 1.1.6, is that fixed with this version?
[12:57] <pitti> tseng: if you want to, would be nice. ethereal is used a lot, but it has lots and lots of holes
[12:57] <seb128> elmo: gstranslator sync please
[12:57] <tseng> pitti: redhat built the new version, i was going to do the same
[12:57] <ajmitch_> pitti: yes, I noticed it didn't build here..
[12:57] <tseng> pitti: since its universe
[12:57] <pitti> tseng: new upstream version? well, for my sake...
[12:58] <zyga> seb128: checking
[12:58] <pitti> tseng: it's probably safer than backporting 25 patches
[12:58] <ajmitch_> tseng: you've tried building it?
[12:58] <tseng> ajmitch_: i plan to at work
[12:59] <tseng> there are some user visible changes
[12:59] <ajmitch_> tseng: right, I found it failed building packet-smb.c, I ust added it to my todo list to look at
[12:59] <tseng> I see
[12:59] <zyga> seb128: seems to... I'll do more tests though
[12:59] <tseng> we have it on fc3 from -updates
[12:59] <tseng> and on gentoo
[01:00] <ajmitch_> tseng: I suspect it just needs to link against the right lib, let me check
[01:01] <zyga> seb128: no it's still broken
[01:02] <zyga> seb128: easliy reproducible 
[01:03] <seb128> jordi: around?
[01:04] <seb128> zyga: jordi is the Debian maintainer, he probably wants the patch for the Debian package/sarge
[01:04] <zyga> seb128: ok
[01:04] <seb128> zyga: and if the package is updated for Debian the fix will be grabbed by sync
[01:04] <seb128> is your patch only somewhere?
[01:06] <zyga> seb128: I'm working on the patch ATM
[01:06] <seb128> k
[01:08] <ajmitch_> tseng: is just bug in source, I think
[01:10] <tseng> ok time to go to work
[01:12] <sabdfl> daniels: ping
[01:14] <ajmitch_> tseng: ok, patched & building
[01:14] <tseng> ajmitch_: erm, ok cool
[01:21] <KaiL_> fabbione: http://www.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/securityfocus/bugtraq/2005-05/0131.html
[01:22] <KaiL_> ...even as I guess you were faster, as always *g*
[01:22] <pitti> KaiL_: we are already working on it
[01:22] <KaiL_> what did I say? :)
[01:23] <ajmitch_> pitti: yay, looks like my ethereal patch lets it compile, at least :)
[01:30] <seb128> lamont: please kick the file-roller build (and the other builds with a such issue, pkg-config is fixed now)
[01:30] <elmo> seb128: from where?  can't see anything newer in experimental or debian
[01:31] <seb128> elmo: we have 1.1.5-1ubuntu1 and debian 1.1.6 ?
[01:31] <elmo> gtranslator |    1.1.6-1 |        breezy | source, ia64
[01:31] <seb128> hum
[01:31] <seb128> sorry, I've looked on i386 only
[01:31] <elmo> np
[01:31] <seb128> thanks
[01:32] <seb128> grrr, .bz2 logs sucks
[01:32] <pitti> seb128: yeah, indeed
[01:33] <pitti> Kamion: g-v-m built successfully now, thanks for pointing out
[01:33] <seb128> lamont: kick gstranslator too please
[01:33] <doko> lamont: ^^^ ;-) everybody cried for compressed logs, now everybody screams ;)
[01:34] <seb128> I never asked for compressed logs
[01:34] <seb128> it used to work fine
[01:34] <pitti> doko: that's just a firefox bug :-/
[01:34] <seb128> pitti: epiphany has the same so, if that matters ;)
[01:35] <seb128> fabbione: yeah, right, but I prefer the browser option
[01:36] <Kamion> pitti: good, thanks
[01:36] <Kamion> sabdfl: daniels just phoned me (unrelatedly), sounds like he's at an installfest or similar
[01:37] <sabdfl> Kamion: multo obligato
[01:37] <Lathiat> slug meeting probably?
[01:37] <Lathiat> or
[01:37] <Lathiat> melbourne style
[01:37] <Lathiat> i forget what their lug is called
[01:37] <Kamion> whatever it was it was noisy
[01:37] <jordi> seb128: yeah?
[01:38] <jordi> zyga: please send the patch to the BTS, I'll upload.
[01:38] <seb128> jordi: that's it, thanks :)
[01:39] <doko> jbailey: just broke a chroot upgrading from hoary to breezy: relocation error in libc-686
[01:39] <ajmitch_> Lathiat: luv or mlug
[01:39] <Lathiat> luv, thas the one
[01:39] <zyga> jordi: BTW?
[01:39] <Lathiat> is there an mlug too?
[01:39] <zyga> jordi: BTS?
[01:40] <seb128> debian bug tracker
[01:40] <zyga> jordi: I'm testing the results ATM, seems to work okay
[01:40] <ajmitch_> Lathiat: yeah, I've been to mlug but not luv meetings
[01:40] <Lathiat> ah
[01:40] <Lathiat> ive only ever heard of luv
[01:48] <koke> mvo: you around?
[01:48] <koke> I have a (maybe stupid) idea for update-manager
[01:49] <jordi> BTS = debian bug tracker
[01:50] <jordi> or just mail it to me, whatever, if you don't want to use the bts
[01:51] <mvo> koke: yes, I'm around. please tell me your idea
[01:52] <koke> ok, do you think it's interesting to have the repositories list in the server??
[01:52] <koke> the descriptions I mean
[01:52] <zyga> jordi: I'm still tracking one issue
[01:52] <jordi> ok
[01:52] <zyga> jordi: I'll notify you as soon as I'm sure it's safe
[01:53] <jordi> what bugs are you fixing=?
[01:53] <zyga> jordi: try editing a .po where plural-forms spans multiple lines
[01:53] <zyga> jordi: gtranslator will only take the first one
[01:53] <mvo> koke: so that it's easy to add mirrors and stuff?
[01:53] <jordi> nod
[01:53] <koke> yep
[01:53] <jordi> zyga: this is fixed in HEAD, but HEAD depends on an unreleased gettext
[01:54] <zyga> jordi: ah then I'm doing useless stuff
[01:54] <zyga> jordi: what's new in gettext?
[01:54] <koke> mvo: or maybe "experimental"/temporary repositories
[01:54] <jordi> zyga: libgettextpo or whatever the name is
[01:54] <zyga> jordi: po parser probably/
[01:54] <jordi> zyga: no, you're fixing it for 1.1.x, which is nice
[01:54] <jordi> zyga: yeah
[01:54] <zyga> jordi: good then
[01:54] <koke> mvirkkil: like people.u.c/~foobar/packages/gcc-5.0 :P
[01:55] <zyga> jordi: my fix works already but something is still wrong with parsing plural messages
[01:55] <koke> ops, missed completion :)
[01:55] <zyga> mvo: IDEA: add special mask for p.u.c/~name/ and mark them as ubuntu people repositories
[01:55] <mvo> koke: no problem, happens to me all the time :) 
[01:56] <zyga> mvo: add a list of well known names (in separate package probably) to further beautify the GUI
[01:56] <mvo> zyga: that sounds interessting, also the p.u.c archives are usually short-living, mostly they are test repos that are merged into the main archive
[01:57] <zyga> mvo: I'm sure alot ubuntu devels have some of those archives in their sources.list
[01:57] <koke> mvo: maybe some description in the Release file, would be nice
[01:57] <zyga> mvo: I'm not sure they use update-manager though ;] 
[01:57] <koke> buuut, only trust the description if the release is well signed and trusted
[01:57] <mvo> koke: some way of a central repository directory would be interessting, also with our _huge_ universe/multiverse it's less important nowdays I think. wasabi had a nice idea about a special ".apt" file that can add repositories easly
[01:58] <mvo> koke: description in the release file sounds good, we already support it in theory, but it's not used yet IIRC
[01:58] <koke> mvo: I mean, something in the Release file would be nice, but I could put in my own repos a "Ubuntu security updates"
[01:58] <thom> elmo: can you thump cogito out of new when you get a chance?
[01:59] <koke> that is why I was telling about the signatures
[02:00] <mvo> koke: agreed
[02:02] <seb128> Keybuk: is hct ready to be used? I would like to play with it to repackage gdm
[02:02] <Keybuk> "repackage" ?
[02:02] <seb128> it's a diff.gz crap and I want to switch to cdbs with proper patches
[02:02] <jdub> seb128: woo! :)
[02:03] <seb128> Josselin did the work once for Debian
[02:03] <jdub> GO GO GO!
[02:03] <jdub> GO YOU BIG RED FIRE ENGINE!
[02:03] <Keybuk> it's not quite ready to be used for that yet
[02:03] <seb128> I've started yesterday, and after having like 10 dirs and doing diffs all over the place I figured than hct is what I want to do the patches
[02:03] <seb128> :(
[02:03] <Keybuk> possibly
[02:03] <Keybuk> it'd certainly help
[02:04] <Amaranth> morning
[02:07] <Keybuk> not yet :(  should be soon
[02:10] <seb128> "soon" beeing 1 day/week/month/.. ? :)
[02:10] <Keybuk> this week
[02:10] <Keybuk> 1-2 days
[02:10] <Keybuk> I hope
[02:11] <seb128> k, cool
[02:11] <seb128> let me know when it's ready ;)
[02:13] <Keybuk> well, I can resume imports when that rsync over there <-- finishes
[02:13] <Keybuk> and they'll run until Mark "exercises his inner woman" again
[02:13] <KaiL_> eeks, why does apt-get now think it can remove kdebase, after update-notifier got updated?
[02:13] <Keybuk> so it's just a matter of when gdm gets imported
[02:13] <seb128> ok
[02:13] <jordi> seb128: dude
[02:14] <Treenaks> KaiL_: it got smart :P
[02:14] <seb128> KaiL_: because some KDE stuff need to be update to the new dbus?
[02:14] <mvirkkil> koke: Huh?
[02:15] <KaiL_> seb128: but update-notifier kept it to wait, why not the kde packages?
[02:15] <koke> mvirkkil: <koke> ops, missed completion :)
[02:15] <seb128> KaiL_: no clue from the description
[02:15] <mvirkkil> koke: :) ok.
[02:15] <seb128> depending of the packages list, etc
[02:16] <jordi> KaiL_: maybe update-notifier got a clue :)
[02:16] <KaiL_> is there some "keep installed"-flag?
[02:16] <seb128> jordi: what?
[02:17] <Kamion> KaiL_: you stand a better chance of that with aptitude
[02:17] <Kamion> apt-get is a debugging tool :-P
[02:19] <KaiL_> or stay with apt-get upgrade
[02:19] <KaiL_> noit dist-upgrade
[02:19] <KaiL_> but stily funny
[02:19] <KaiL_> still funny...
[02:20] <Kamion> busybox-cvs (20040623-1) unstable; urgency=low
[02:20] <Kamion>   * New CVS version.
[02:20] <Kamion>     - Support 64 bit arithmetic. (closes: #251302)
[02:20] <Kamion> $ usr/bin/expr 100000000000 + 200000000000
[02:20] <Kamion> -2
[02:20] <Kamion> sigh
[02:22] <Kamion> and for that matter $((...)) can't do it either
[02:22] <Kamion> $ echo $((100000000000000000000+20000000000000000))
[02:22] <Kamion> 4294967294
[02:24] <Amaranth> $ python -c "print 100000000000 + 200000000000"
[02:24] <Amaranth> 300000000000
[02:25] <KaiL_> echo $((100000000000000000000+20000000000000000))
[02:25] <KaiL_> 7786279631452241920
[02:25] <KaiL_> lol
[02:25] <KaiL_> (the other 2 work here)
[02:26] <Kamion> neither of those are useful in busybox, kthxbye
[02:26] <Amaranth> $ python -c "print 100000000000000000000+20000000000000000"
[02:26] <Amaranth> 100020000000000000000
[02:26] <Amaranth> *cough*
[02:27] <zyga> Amaranth: bah! ;] 
[02:28] <zyga> did anyone notice that rhythmbox hangs when it starts in 'small' mode?
[02:28] <Amaranth> nope, never use small mode
[02:29] <Amaranth> i did notice that it started playing my evanescence songs twice in a row when i had it on random
[02:29] <Treenaks> it has one?
[02:29] <seb128> works fine here
[02:30] <koke> Amaranth: I think I've suffered that too
[02:30] <koke> maybe even with Evanescence songs only!! :)
[02:30] <Amaranth> rhythmbox has good taste
[02:31] <ogra> lamont ? (or elmo)
[02:35] <ajmitch_> hi ogra 
[02:35] <ogra> hi ajmitch_ 
[02:35] <elmo> ogra: sup
[02:35] <ogra> W: Couldn't stat source package list http://jackass.ubuntu.com breezy/universe Packages (/home/buildd/build-breezy/chroot-breezy/var/lib/apt/lists/jackass.ubuntu.com_dists_breezy_universe_binary-amd64_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
[02:35] <ogra> W: You may want to run apt-get update to correct these problems
[02:35] <ogra> elmo, from the latest mono build log...
[02:35] <elmo> uh.. I'm going to defer to lamont on that one
[02:36] <ogra> ok
[02:36] <Lathiat> delegation at its best
[02:36] <ogra> hehe
[02:36] <ogra> Lathiat, some call it "standing on the sholders of giants" ;)
[02:36] <Lathiat> :)
[02:38] <ajmitch_> ethereal uploaded, hopefully it didn't take too long & timeout
[02:38] <thom> hrm, i really ought to create a build partition that isn't on s/w raid
[02:38] <Mithrandir> thom: ramfs! :)
[02:38] <thom> Mithrandir: not so useful for firefox or the kernel, i suspect
[02:39] <Mithrandir> you've got an amd64, just get mark to buy you 10G of RAM.
[02:39] <ogra> hehe
[02:39] <lamont> ogra: grumble
[02:39] <thom> heh
[02:39] <thom> i can just imagine that PO
[02:40] <ogra> lamont, sorry *shrug*
[02:43] <lamont> Mithrandir: so what were you trying to debug in nmap anyway?
[02:44] <Mithrandir> lamont: nmap -oO 127.0.0.1 crashes on amd64
[02:44] <lamont> Mithrandir: that's not very nice of it.
[02:44] <Mithrandir> or -ofoo for stat.
[02:44] <Mithrandir> uhm, s/stat/that/
[02:45] <ogra> hmm
[02:45] <ogra> fuser /dev/dsp /dev/sound/dsp /dev/snd/pcmC0D0c /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p /dev/snd/pcmC0D1c /dev/snd/pcmC0D1p /dev/snd/pcmC1D0c /dev/snd/pcmC1D0p /dev/audio
[02:45] <ogra> my processlist is full of that and nautilus is stuck ....
[02:47] <lamont> kids->school
[02:49] <pitti> Kamion: to properly deroot dhclient3, I have to change /sbin/ifup to put the pid file into /var/run/dhcp3-client instead of /var/run. Given that I add proper package conflicts, do you see any problem with that?
[02:50] <pitti> Kamion: alternatively, I could rewrite the pid/db file creation to happen earlier and chown them
[02:50] <Kamion> pitti: no, as long as you make sure /var/run/dhcp3-client exists at startup rather than shipping it in the package (since /var/run might be on a tmpfs)
[02:51] <Kamion> pitti: oh, ifup, erm
[02:51] <Kamion> shouldn't ifup be client-independent?
[02:51] <pitti> Kamion: it calls dhclient3 with paths for the pid and lease file
[02:51] <pitti> dhclient3 -pf /var/run/dhclient.eth0.pid -lf /var/run/dhclient.eth0.leases eth0
[02:52] <zyga> bah!
[02:52] <zyga> gtranslator is crappy :/
[02:52] <pitti> Kamion: well, the second alternative is probably safer for now, even if more code runs as root
[02:52] <zyga> it's a miracle it works :P
[02:52] <zyga> parsing wise
[02:52] <Kamion> pitti: oh, I see
[02:52] <Kamion> pitti: either, I guess, I don't have a strong opinion
[02:52] <pitti> Kamion: above command is constructed in /sbin/ifup
[03:20] <zyga> bbl
[03:26] <fabbione> elmo: can you please update hoary/davis chroot?
[03:27] <elmo> updating
[03:27] <fabbione> elmo: amen.. here is another one: concordia$ dchroot -c hoary-i386 -> No directory, logging in with HOME=/
[03:27] <fabbione> thanks
[03:28] <elmo> oh, yeah, I disabled that.. while doing something.. probably creating breezy-i386
[03:29] <fabbione> oh ok
[03:29] <elmo> fixed
[03:29] <fabbione> thanks
[03:29] <fabbione> is it updated?
[03:29] <fabbione> i need build-dep linux-source-2.6.10 on that one
[03:32] <elmo> fabbione: updated 
[03:33] <fabbione> thanks
[03:37] <elmo> fabbione: davis done too
[03:38] <fabbione> thanks
[03:47] <lamont> elmo: would it make sense to crontab an apt-get update in the chroots on the porting machines?  (so that apt-get source tends to be close to current...)
[03:47] <elmo> probably yes
[03:48] <elmo> RTed
[03:52] <diamond> elmo: hey. you may remember a mail from me about heanet offering official ubuntu mirroring...
[03:52] <elmo> diamond: yeah
[03:52] <diamond> elmo: would that be of any interest to you?
[03:53] <elmo> diamond: yes, definitely, sorry I've not replied yet
[03:53] <diamond> elmo: no problems, i know it was a very busy time for ye, to say the least
[03:54] <diamond> elmo: anyway, thought i'd just remind you, so my work here is done, unless you have stuff you want to ask me
[03:55] <elmo> diamond: thanks for the prod, I'll talk to the heanet guys in the next day or two
[03:56] <diamond> elmo: cool -)
[03:56] <JaneW> daily reminder: please update the statuses of the Breezy Goals you are responsible in http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/BreezyGoals
[03:56] <JaneW> I'll have to keep nagging until they are all done...
[03:56] <JaneW> ;)
[03:57] <Simira> hi folks
[03:57] <Simira> I can take some responsibility, but I don't have any BreezyGoals to update...
[03:58] <Kamion> lamont: how much of http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/report.html is give-back city?
[04:01] <lamont>   libhal-dev: Depends: libhal1 (= 0.5.1-0ubuntu1) but it is not going to be installed
[04:01] <lamont>               Depends: libdbus-1-dev but it is not going to be installed
[04:01] <lamont> nautilus-cd-burner, that is
[04:02] <lamont> Kamion: well, the mass-giveback I did yesterday didn't clear them....
[04:02] <Kamion> hmph
[04:02] <Kamion> worth a try
[04:03] <lamont> lsb is it's own little problem.
[04:03] <lamont> main Depends: universe
[04:03] <lamont>   lsb: Depends: lsb-core but it is not installable
[04:03] <lamont>        Depends: lsb-graphics but it is not installable
[04:03] <lamont>        Depends: lsb-cxx but it is not installable
[04:04] <Kamion> yeah, I asked elmo to promote those last night
[04:04] <lamont> Kamion: let me figure out what's up with hal/dbus installability - that's most of those.
[04:05] <Kamion> it remains to be seen whether that was the easy half
[04:07] <lamont> grumble
[04:07] <lamont> Kamion: you mean 'little' half vs 'big' half?
[04:07] <lamont> lets see how those do
[04:08] <seb128> lamont: dunno if you read what I said before, but you can kick file-roller and similar ftbfs with symboles issues
[04:08] <doko> hmm, for the C++ transition, we currently have a conflict of the new library package with the old library package. wondering, if we should have a "replaces" line as well?
[04:08] <lamont> seb128: hadn't read that before - just gave back a boatload of fails-to-install-build-deps packages
[04:09] <seb128> lamont: please kick gtranslator too, ftbfs due to the aspell b0rkage
[04:09] <diamond> seb128: once again, i filed a duplicate bug report, 'cept this time it was at least in a different bugzilla. doh.
[04:09] <lamont> kicked everything with 'undefined reference to' in the log
[04:09] <Kamion> lamont: yeah. I've done the bit that goes through figuring out how much free space there is and, failing that, which partitions can be resized; now I have to do the actual resizing (and kick off the autopartitioner, but that *is* trivial)
[04:09] <seb128> diamond: ah ah, which one? :)
[04:10] <diamond> seb128: the gnome-utils screenshot bug, with multi-monitor setups
[04:10] <seb128> oh, right
[04:12] <lamont> seb128: is libgii one of yours?
[04:13] <lamont> (it has a 'g' in the name, you see..... :-)
[04:13] <seb128> not than I know
[04:13] <lamont> ok. nm
[04:14] <lamont> seb128: libwnck_2.10.0-1ubuntu1: non-PIC in shared lib.
[04:14] <lamont> /usr/bin/ld: /usr/X11R6/lib/libXRes.a(XRes.o): relocation R_X86_64_32 can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
[04:14] <seb128> rahhh
[04:14] <lamont> --> missing build-dep??
[04:15] <seb128> I don't think so, I've just added the Build-Depends on libres-dev
[04:15] <seb128> because some feature was not activated without it
[04:15] <seb128> libxres even
[04:16] <lamont> usr/X11R6/lib/libXRes.so                                    libdevel/libxres-dev
[04:16] <fabbione> there is
[04:17] <lamont> is wnck bug
[04:17] <fabbione> doko: i just started building gcc-3.4 again in a brand new clean breezy chroot...
[04:17] <lamont> gnome-volume-manager_1.3.1-0ubuntu1: missing build-dep bzip2
[04:17] <fabbione> lamont: btw, i fixed debootstrap breezy.buildd
[04:18] <fabbione> or atleast now it can bootstrap
[04:18] <lamont> fabbione: ok.  it'll need love again next week
[04:18] <fabbione> lamont: when the trasition will start?
[04:18] <fabbione> yeah i could guess for the g++-4.0
[04:18] <lamont> fabbione: I'd fixed the copy in buildd-config, but was stalling hoping that Kamion would beat me to it in debootstrap
[04:19] <fabbione> eheheh
[04:19] <lamont> yeah.  I believe that's planning to happen next week
[04:19] <fabbione> yeah i heard that.. i was more interested in a day
[04:19] <fabbione> since monday i won't be around
[04:19] <fabbione> and i am 100% sure it will start monday
[04:21] <lamont> monday was what I'd heard
[04:21] <lamont> see #ubuntu-toolchain
[04:21] <lamont> :-)
[04:22] <fabbione> i guess i will need to stop the sparcbuildd on a crontab base
[04:22] <jdub> lamont: #ubuntu-toolchain? seriously?!
[04:22] <lamont> jdub: yeah, it exists.
[04:22] <fabbione> lamont: or do you think you can do that sunday night before going to sleep?
[04:22] <lamont> fabbione: you could atjob the crontab change...
[04:22] <lamont> jdub: it's even logged
[04:23] <fabbione> eheh
[04:23] <jnc> evolution is in process to be updated, for breezy i presume
[04:24] <doko> jdub: #ubuntu-love wasn't appropriate
[04:25] <doko> Kamion, fabbione, elmo, whoever knows: for the C++ transition, we currently have a conflict of the new library package with the old library package. wondering, if we should have a "replaces" line as well?
[04:29] <lamont> jnc: it and everything else
[04:31] <jnc> ;)
[04:31] <pitti> doko: actually it shouldn't be necessary AFAICS; new libraries should be pulled in as dependencies
[04:31] <Kamion> pitti: the conflicts are very much necessary
[04:32] <pitti> Kamion: yeah, of course, I talk about the Replaces:
[04:32] <Kamion> doko: I'd use both conflicts and replaces I think
[04:32] <pitti> doko: you will recompile all applications which use the new library, riight?
[04:32] <sabdfl> Keybuk: xft done
[04:33] <Kamion> it's true that dependencies will generally pull in the new library, but replaces will provide an extra hint to the packaging system which one it should pick
[04:34] <Kamion> otherwise I can imagine the packaging system deciding to hold back the applications rather than install the new library
[04:34] <doko> Kamion: ok
[04:34] <jdub> heh, cogito sync :)
[04:35] <pitti> well, you can't have old and new apps installed side by side anyway, since the old apps will not work with the new library (in this sense, a Replaces: is semantically wrong)
[04:35] <ogra> mono is so bad to me
[04:36] <pitti> oh, sorry, that was bogus, nevermind
[04:37] <pitti> doko: yeah, Kamion is right (of course, as always :) )
[04:42] <fabbione> pitti:      - Remove system user dhcpd on purge.
[04:42] <fabbione> i don't really like that
[04:42] <pitti> hm, we do that with all system users so far
[04:43] <pitti> fabbione: why not? it doesn't leave any files behind
[04:43] <fabbione> is the config still owned by root or by dhcpd user?
[04:43] <pitti> fabbione: by root
[04:43] <pitti> fabbione: dhcpd only owns the lease file, which is purged
[04:43] <fabbione> pitti: ok...
[04:43] <pitti> fabbione: I think it makes sense to have the conffile owned by root
[04:44] <pitti> (by default, at least)
[04:44] <fabbione> i was only worried of UID reuse
[04:44] <fabbione> yeps
[04:46] <fabbione> jdub: wait for the next kernel...
[04:46] <fabbione> and that i can upload the userland tools :)
[04:46] <fabbione> otherwise there is really not much you can test
[04:46] <fabbione> other than a single node cluster
[04:47] <Nafallo> fabbione: thanx btw. you managed to pull all my hardware to work out of the box with 2.6.12 :-).
[04:47] <fabbione> Nafallo: cool
[04:47] <jdub> fabbione: single node clusters are so boring ;)
[04:47] <fabbione> jdub: do you have more than one server at home? :)
[04:48] <fabbione> i did test here with a 2 and a 3 nodes cluster
[04:48] <fabbione> it works pretty well.. used aoe to distribute the block device
[04:48] <fabbione> and gfs on top
[04:48] <fabbione> with dlm locking method
[04:49] <fabbione> gulm did hang with the old code.. i need to check with the new one
[04:49] <jdub> fabbione: not really, but i can set up junk machines in the cluster
[04:49] <fabbione> that would be good :)
[04:49] <jdub> fabbione: GFS can handle multiple arches in the cluster, can't it?
[04:49] <fabbione> jdub: yup
[04:49] <jdub> what's aoe?
[04:50] <fabbione> ATA over Ethernet
[04:50] <jdub> oh right
[04:50] <jdub> very nice
[04:50] <Nafallo> Age Of Empires ;-)
[04:50] <fabbione> it's another network block device system
[04:50] <ogra> fabbione, btw, my workstation is ready for clusterfs...
[04:50] <jdub> yeah, i've been meaning to try it
[04:50] <fabbione> ogra: rocking
[04:50] <jdub> nice that it works with gfs
[04:50] <fabbione> jdub: you can use aoe/nbd/gnbd
[04:50] <fabbione> any of them is fine
[04:50] <jdub> do you think that should be our recommended setup?
[04:50] <fabbione> jdub: it depends a lot from the hw they have
[04:51] <fabbione> some clusters are all connected via fiber to a SAN
[04:51] <fabbione> and they don't need any of the network block devices at all
[04:51] <jdub> yeha
[04:51] <fabbione> they only need GFS + dlm
[04:52] <fabbione> jdub: i think it will be more fun to make a contest out of it :)
[04:52] <jdub> ha ha
[04:52] <fabbione> like build the biggest ubuntu cluster and you win a dinner with Mark
[04:52] <fabbione> or something like that :)
[04:52] <jdub> that's an awesome idea
[04:52] <jdub> and good messaging for ubuntu as a server
[04:53] <fabbione> exactly
[04:53] <jdub> want me to announce? :)
[04:53] <fabbione> or "Win a dinner with Fabio's wife!"
[04:53] <fabbione> after we have the tools in place
[04:53] <fabbione> not right now
[04:53] <jdub> i will make sure your email address is prominent for people who need help setting it up :-) ;-) ;-)
[04:53] <fabbione> it's too early
[04:53] <jdub> yeah
[04:53] <jdub> just checking that you're not kidding :-)
[04:54] <jdub> i think it's a brill idea
[04:54] <fabbione> i said a dinner with Mark or my wife :)
[04:54] <fabbione> not with me :P
[04:54] <fabbione> but i mean.. ask Mark..
[04:54] <jdub> fabbione: oh, next kernel will have new inotify too, right?
[04:54] <fabbione> jdub: this kernel has inotify on by default already
[04:54] <jdub> fabbione: we don't need to ask mark anymore, we have claire. she owns his calendar. :-)
[04:54] <diamond> fabbione: clarify. dinner with {mark,your wife}, or, {dinner with mark,your wife} ? -)
[04:55] <jdub> fabbione: mmm, but you asked me to wait on gamin for the new inotify
[04:55] <fabbione> diamond: the former.. :)
[04:55] <diamond> fabbione: ok. just checking -)
[04:55] <fabbione> jdub: yes.. i am going to update with the new idiotify patch soon
[04:55] <jdub> fabbione: seb is going to be doing it anyway :)
[04:55] <jdub> ha ha
[04:55] <fabbione> whatever...
[04:55] <jdub> inotify == good
[04:55] <jdub> gamin == hmm :)
[04:56] <fabbione> if i get bugged  i will forward the bugs to you
[04:56] <zyga> re
[04:56] <fabbione> no matter what :)
[04:56] <ogra> so lets write some replacement :)
[04:56] <zyga> another firefox :)
[04:56] <jdub> fabbione: seb dude, seb :)
[04:56] <fabbione> no no
[04:56] <fabbione> you jeff..
[04:56] <fabbione> you
[04:57] <fabbione> Nafallo: i think T-Bone has something like 2/300 entries just from #ubuntu-kernel
[04:58] <Nafallo> *s*
[04:59] <Nafallo> hmm, the real breezy work (NM, Xen and stuff) starts after the CxxTransition I guess? :-)
[04:59] <ogra> Nafallo, depends
[05:00] <ogra> Nafallo, for example, i'm fighting with mono since last friday, this isnt affected by the transition...
[05:01] <Nafallo> ogra: ahh, true. :-)
[05:01] <ogra> hmm, btw, where is T-Bone, hvent seen him since before udu in here.... did he give up ?
[05:02] <fabbione> ogra: no idea...
[05:02] <Nafallo> ogra: anyway. Feels like the trasition have to be top prio next week, atleast for MOTU :-).
[05:02] <ogra> Nafallo, yes, thats true....
[05:03] <jdub> ha ha
[05:03] <Nafallo> ogra: hehe, atleast that week ;-)
[05:03] <jdub> ogra: you should ask doko for one of his perl scripts
[05:04] <zyga> wake me up when we have ff patched please :)
[05:04] <mdke> http://pastebin.ca/11588 <-- does anyone know what this error might mean when editing the ubuntu wiki?
[05:04] <doko> jdub: which packages do you take? ;-)
[05:05] <ogra> jdub, we already decided to point everyone to him :) just scripting where we can abuse doko is lame ;)
[05:05] <thom> zyga: firefox patched for what?
[05:05] <zyga> thom: you know, 1.0.4 and stuff
[05:05] <zyga> thom: don't tell me we already have that
[05:05] <zyga> ;] 
[05:05] <thom> oh right. well, patches are embargoed until the 18th :P
[05:05] <zyga> thom: really, why?
[05:06] <thom> 1.0.4 will hit breezy when i get time
[05:06] <thom> wish i knew
[05:07] <zyga> thom: I'm confused, embargo or lack of time?
[05:07] <thom> zyga: the *patches* are embargoed, 1.0.4 is out
[05:07] <thom> so, if you care about hoary, you can't have updates until the patches are unembargoed
[05:07] <jay> Kamion: is it possible to access the section of the installer afterwards where it adds a new user?
[05:07] <thom> if you're on breezy, you get 1.0.4 when i have time to do it
[05:07] <zyga> thom: patches for breezy version of firefox?
[05:07] <zyga> thom: ah
[05:08] <zyga> thom: I was thinking about breezy
[05:08] <zyga> thom: then it's crystal clear - thanks
[05:08] <zyga> :-)
[05:12] <mdke> http://pastebin.ca/11588 <-- who can i ask about this?
[05:12] <thom> mdke: context would be nice
[05:13] <mdke> thom, it occurs when trying to save a wiki page
[05:14] <thom> mdke: i'd poke Henrik Nilsen Omma <henrik@canonical.com>
[05:14] <mdke> ok
[05:14] <ogra> mdke, and file a bug ?
[05:14] <mdke> ogra, *grins*
[05:14] <mdke> website bugs don't get assigned
[05:14] <ogra> oh, not anymore ?
[05:15] <mdke> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=specific&order=bugs.resolution%2C+relevance+desc&bug_status=__open__&product=Websites&content=
[05:16] <mdke> ogra, but its hardly big priority due to the wiki changing over and all
[05:16] <mdke> so i'll just try poking
[05:16] <ogra> yep
[05:18] <Lathiat> what are we changing to?
[05:18] <mdke> MoinMoin
[05:21] <Lathiat> ah cool
[05:24] <mjg59> thom: They've released 1.0.4 but the patches are still embargoed?
[05:24] <mjg59> Are they fucked in the head, or something?
[05:25] <fabbione> mjg59: probably there are so many changes in such a big amount of messy code that it is impossible to discern what is what
[05:26] <thom> mjg59: meh, most likely
[05:26] <fabbione> the other possibility is another vendor-sec fucks up
[05:26] <thom> mjg59: i suspect they have a suite release to do soon and want to embargo till then
[05:27] <mjg59> With the assumption being that Johhny Badman won't be able to pull out the vulnerability from the diff?
[05:27] <mjg59> Actually, in the Firefox case that's probably true...
[05:27] <lamont> Kamion: want to rerun your uninstallable report?
[05:28] <jdub> yo cc
[05:28] <Kamion> jay: dpkg-reconfigure passwd
[05:29] <Kamion> lamont: it runs on jackass as katie ...
[05:29] <lamont> Kamion: ah.  daily? or as part of cron.daily?
[05:29] <Kamion> lamont: though I can re-run the cdimage one by doing a new CD build, if everything's in the archive
[05:30] <Kamion> lamont: the one on people is done from cron.daily, and mirrored hourly at :15
[05:30] <jay> Kamion: it asks about shadow passwords, root password, etc.  i'm just looking to prompt the user to add a new acct and password as in the installer
[05:30] <thom> mjg59: yeah :/
[05:30] <Kamion> jay: there's no generic way to do that
[05:30] <jay> Kamion: oh ok.  thanks
[05:31] <Kamion> jay: there's 'dpkg-reconfigure -fhigh passwd', which will ask fewer questions; but if there's already a non-system user there, it won't ask
[05:31] <Kamion> jay: I'd suggest using adduser (in text mode) or one of the gnome-system-tools (in GNOME) instead
[05:32] <jay> Kamion: ya i started whipping up my own thing with whiptail but then realized what i was doing was recreating what the installer asked so i thought there might be a way to access it using debconf
[05:39] <pitti> dhcp3-client derooting, there you go
[05:45] <mdz> morning
[05:46] <thom> morning matt
[05:47] <fabbione> hey mdz
[05:49] <daniels> morning mdz
[05:50] <bluefoxicy> pitti:  hi
[05:50] <pitti> Hi bluefoxicy, how are you
[05:50] <bluefoxicy> pitti:  do you have numbers for ES' ASLR?
[05:51] <pitti> numbers? no
[05:51] <pitti> what about?
[05:52] <bluefoxicy> pitti:  I'm just doing a comparison on the UDU, http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/PaXvExecShield linked to from http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/ProactiveSecurityRoadmap
[05:52] <pitti> ah
[05:53] <bluefoxicy> it doesn't matter much
[05:53] <Kamion> lamont: CD rebuild happening now, will be a bit
[05:53] <bluefoxicy> I'm not all that concerned over the level of ASLR, more over those last points on each
[05:54] <pitti> bluefoxicy: ah, I didn't yet read that section, trulux added it
[05:55] <bluefoxicy> re ES security policy is determined and enforced by the program, and is equal to or less than the security defined by the policy of the administrator (i.e. the administrator can force weaker, but not force stronger); whereas PaX policy is determined by the administrator and enforced by the kernel, and is equal to or greater than the policy defined by the administrator (the program follows the policy or crashes)
[06:08] <koke> launchpad is dead??
[06:08] <koke> oops
[06:09] <jnc> replaced by darkwingduck
[06:14] <dilinger> too bad disney would probably come after people for using that, it would be a great name for a piece of software
[06:16] <hunger> Anyone got a working init script for the new dbus?
[06:17] <seb128> lamont: will gnome-media be retried by amd64's buildd?
[06:17] <seb128> or does it need to be pushed?
[06:18] <koke> hey, why are build logs bzipped now?
[06:18] <seb128> smallers
[06:18] <lamont> koke: because they're smaller that way
[06:18] <koke> this is the obvious reason :)
[06:19] <koke> but then, I'd love to be able to see them directly on firefox
[06:19] <seb128> now we have to teach browsers to open bz2
[06:19] <thom> lamont: can you make it so that they only get zipped after a week, or something?
[06:19] <koke> seb128: that's the point
[06:19] <lamont> thom: painful
[06:19] <lamont> since you're actually looking at a mirror of the actual log archive...
[06:21] <thom> lamont: come on! surely you if anyone can kludge it!
[06:21] <thom> ;-)
[06:21] <lamont> thom: actually, the mirroring needs some love sometime soon anyway...
[06:21] <mjg59> Acer have /far/ too many bloody laptops on the market
[06:21] <mjg59> I bet they're all different, too
[06:22] <Kamion> hmm, the installer isn't giving me correct default hostnames from DHCP any more
[06:22] <lamont> mjg59: you mean diff models, or that they customize each unit as it leaves the manufacturing line?
[06:23] <lamont> thom: the mirror script is just an rsync across the entire buildLogs tree...  Just had to bump it to running every 20 min, since they were overlapping, and testing the locking code ...
[06:23] <Nafallo> mjg59: btw, hotkeys like email should just work? or is it that I should be able to tell gnome to use that button/keycode?
[06:23] <lamont> Nafallo: you have to tell gnome
[06:23] <lamont> system->preferences->keyboard shortcutws
[06:23] <lamont> s/w//
[06:23] <Nafallo> lamont: oki, I should s/\?/Y/ then :-)
[06:23] <hunger> dbus upgrade is seriously borked!
[06:24] <lamont> Nafallo: although that's really a #ubuntu question
[06:25] <mjg59> Nafallo: At the moment, hotkeys are unlikely to do much by default. We'd like to improve that so they work by default on at least some machines
[06:26] <zyga> mjg59: is there any progam that can easily check what key has been pressed?
[06:27] <Nafallo> lamont: just verified my understanding of the wikipage :-).
[06:27] <zyga> mjg59: like punching all the funny stuff manufacturer put on my laptop shell?
[06:27] <mjg59> zyga: I'm not quite sure what you mean
[06:27] <Nafallo> mjg59: ohh, oki. but it's "yes" if you can tell gnome what to do, right? :-)
[06:27] <mdz> pitti: yay dhcp
[06:28] <pitti> mdz: hehe, another one bites the dust :-)
[06:28] <mjg59> Nafallo: No, we only consider them supported if they work by default
[06:28] <zyga> mjg59: something that will say: keycode 0xFOOBAR after pressing 'email' button
[06:28] <mjg59> zyga: xev
[06:28] <zyga> mjg59: thanks
[06:28] <lamont> thom: 262000 inodes for rsync to look at.  every run.  ew.
[06:28] <mdz> pitti: is init next? ;-)
[06:28] <mjg59> zyga: Alternatively, on the console, showkeys
[06:28] <Nafallo> mjg59: oki :-). I'll go to turn that questionmark into a "No" then ;-)
[06:28] <lamont> mdz: xorg :-0)
[06:28] <Kamion> mjg59: how's the HP packaging stuff going?
[06:28] <mdz> init runs on more systems than xorg
[06:28] <mjg59> Kamion: Mm? It should be sorted.
[06:29] <Kamion> mjg59: didn't you say yesterday that the tarball you sent me was buggy?
[06:29] <mjg59> Ah, sorry, I emailed you once it was working
[06:29] <lamont> Nafallo: you go into keyboard short cuts and hit the stupid button after telling it what you want it to do.
[06:29] <lamont> is trivial
[06:29] <pitti> mdz: yeah, I thought about "sed -i 's/root/noob/' /etc/passwd", then we do all remaining root programs in one shot :-/
[06:29] <mdz> "buggy" and "completed" are not necessarily mutually exclusive ;-)
[06:29] <mjg59> lamont: The number that gives us isn't very useful
[06:29] <Kamion> mjg59: oh, ok. deconfused
[06:29] <Nafallo> lamont: I know. I've done that since warty :-).
[06:30] <zyga> mjg59: cool, all my extra keys are recognized
[06:30] <Nafallo> lamont: I was asking because of LaptopTestingHardware
[06:30] <lamont> mjg59: it's useful enough for gnome...
[06:30] <mjg59> lamont: We want them to work without manual configuration
[06:30] <mjg59> Which means knowing what the scancode produced is
[06:30] <lamont> mjg59: ah, that requires some work, yes.
[06:31] <zyga> mjg59: any page where I can report laptop model and keycodes?
[06:31] <mjg59> zyga: Not really - what sort of laptop is it?
[06:31] <zyga> mjg59: gericom blockbuster
[06:31] <zyga> mjg59: maybe I could start such a page?
[06:31] <pitti> mdz: I think inetd has to go next (throw out, not deroot)
[06:32] <mjg59> zyga: Sure, that would be helpful
[06:32] <sladen> zyga: 'showkey' under the console
[06:32] <pitti> argh, btw:
[06:32] <pitti> seb128: root     10129  0.0  0.3   5536  2628 ?        S    09:18   0:00 /usr/lib/gconf2/gconfd-2 16
[06:32] <pitti> seb128: ^ what the hell is this?
[06:32] <mjg59> zyga: Including the output from dmidecode would be useful
[06:32] <seb128> pitti: gconfd-2 ? :)
[06:32] <seb128> pitti: don't start GNOME as root
[06:33] <zyga> mjg59: checking
[06:33] <mdz> pitti: hmm, I thought we had removed it already
[06:33] <pitti> seb128: I certainly didn't
[06:33] <mdz> Kamion: is netkit-inetd in minimal intentionally?
[06:33] <pitti> mdz: it's on ProactiveSecurityRoadmap so far
[06:33] <zyga> mjg59: easy enough but that will clutter any wiki page
[06:33] <mdz> Kamion: perhaps that pre-dated the netbase change
[06:33] <seb128> pitti: bah, we have some GNOME apps running as root, like update-manager?
[06:33] <seb128> and using gconf
[06:34] <Kamion> mdz: no, I just forgot to do the "The following packages should be moved from base to supported:" part of PackageSelection
[06:34] <hunger> Does the "icon appearing on desktop on attaching usb HD" work again?
[06:34] <mdz> g-v-m still likes to crash during upgrades (of dbus?)
[06:34] <mdz> Kamion: I'm going to go ahead and move it then
[06:34] <hunger> I'm asking since it does not here.
[06:34] <Kamion> mdz: ok
[06:34] <mjg59> zyga: Ok, just email me for now
[06:34] <pitti> mdz: yes, the current gvm does not yet have the reconnection patch
[06:34] <seb128> mdz: on dbus restarts
[06:34] <pitti> mdz: I still need to backport it
[06:34] <pitti> s/back/forward/
[06:34] <Kamion> has sufficient of MailRoadmap happened for the other three (mailx, postfix, postfix-tls) to move?
[06:34] <Nafallo> hunger: works for me :-)
[06:35] <Kamion> hm, they already have
[06:35] <hunger> mdz: Just did the dbus upgrade... it forgot to install dbus in place of dbus-1 and I could no longer log in:-(
[06:35] <lamont> Kamion: uh, I thought I did that already.
[06:35] <pitti> mdz: inetd> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/InetdUsage actually boils down to: remove dependency from netbase, and fix tftpd-hpa to not use inetd by default (or depend on it)
[06:35] <zyga> how can I reset my password for wiki?
[06:36] <Kamion> lamont: you did, I'm just being spethul
[06:36] <hunger> Nafallo: Worked with hoary, broken ever since.
[06:36] <lamont> Kamion: seeds--breezy--0--patch-111
[06:36] <lamont> s/1$//
[06:36] <Keybuk> whoah
[06:36] <zyga> mjg59: email, please?
[06:36] <lamont> Kamion: and postfix-tls is _gone_, not moved... :-)
[06:36] <lamont> Keybuk: is that because zsh is doing the globing?
[06:36] <Keybuk> I guess that's an extension of the fact it ssh's in and runs rsync using your shell
[06:37] <mjg59> zyga: mjg59@codon.org.uk
[06:37] <Nafallo> hunger: hmm, usbkey works on breezy. dunno if that's a significant diffrence.
[06:37] <Keybuk> lamont: I did them in a remote bit
[06:37] <lamont> ah, ok
[06:37] <Keybuk> (rsync -avz syndicate:Desktop/*(/) .)
[06:37] <hunger> Nafallo: Damn... maybe this is a kubuntu issue though.
[06:40] <zyga> mjg59: mail away
[06:41] <jordi> zyga: how are you doing?
[06:43] <zyga> jordi: fixing another bug
[06:43] <zyga> jordi: I'm re writing the parser basically - it's not large so It should take about an hour 
[06:44] <zyga> jordi: I was wondering how to diff this thing
[06:44] <zyga> jordi: I got my source via apt-get
[06:47] <jordi> zyga: unpack another tree and diff -Nuar
[06:47] <jordi> be careful not to let dpkg-source kill your working tree
[06:47] <jordi> rename it to gtranslatior-1.1.6.precioussss
[06:47] <Nafallo> hehe
[06:48] <zyga> jordi: right, good idea
[06:49] <Simira> hi Nafallo 
[06:50] <Nafallo> Simira: hi there :-).
[06:55] <bluefoxicy> kids suck
[06:58] <Keybuk> rsync: connection unexpectedly closed (0 bytes received so far) [sender] 
[06:58] <Keybuk> rsync error: error in rsync protocol data stream (code 12) at io.c(359)
[06:58] <Keybuk> ...man... that's almost tla-like in its usefulness
[06:58] <Nafallo> hehe
[06:59] <Keybuk> (translation: rsync not installed on remote machine)
[07:01] <zyga> mjg59: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LaptopKeycodes
[07:03] <JaneW> bluefoxicy: and are you pleased about that? ;)
[07:03] <zyga> JaneW: bluefoxicy is just kidding, he loves kids
[07:03] <zyga> ;-)
[07:04] <JaneW> zyga: just stirring ;)
[07:06] <Simira> one doesn't need to have ones own, right... let the others take care of that mini-human business... 
[07:06] <koke> pitti: do you know if there is any plan on translating security announces??
[07:07] <koke> oh, I see "-> food" :)
[07:07] <koke> have to go now
[07:07] <zyga> koke: interesting 
[07:07] <zyga> koke: update manager could take them into account
[07:07] <Lathiat> that would be rad
[07:08] <koke> zyga: I think thats another different thing (of course interesting too)
[07:08] <koke> sorry, I'm late
[07:08] <koke> bye
[07:09] <Kamion> nggg. netcfg hasn't changed since hoary; I don't understand why its DNS hostname guessing has stopped working
[07:13] <JaneW> Simira: *LOL* ok well I have taken care of it for most of you then ;)
[07:14] <Kamion> has getaddrinfo() forgotten how to return canonical names?
[07:14] <dholbach> hey
[07:15] <Simira> JaneW: you've got a whole bunch?
[07:15] <JaneW> Simira: well actually it's 2, but sometimes that feels like a LOT! ;)
[07:16] <zyga> JaneW: gzip them together to two chairs, it will feel more like 1.62 
[07:17] <Simira> zyga: you couldn't have gotten a too in that sentence too, could you?
[07:17] <Lathiat> we are sold out of too's
[07:17] <zyga> Simira: I'm doing my best but this is a difficult language you know
[07:18] <zyga> :-)
[07:18] <JaneW> zyga: good idea
[07:18] <JaneW> although they are pasted to the TV right now anyway ...
[07:18] <Simira> zyga: what's your main lang?
[07:18] <Simira> JaneW: how old?
[07:18] <zyga> Simira: Polish
[07:19] <JaneW> 3 & 5
[07:19] <JaneW> both boys
[07:19] <Simira> oh dear. You've got your hands full, then...
[07:20] <JaneW> Actually they are getting easier already
[07:20] <thom> JaneW: they'll get worse again :-)
[07:20] <JaneW> although the hammering sound I just heard is concerning ;)
[07:20] <Simira> yes, as long as they play with each other. To the older one gets "too old" for that "childish stuff"
[07:20] <JaneW> thom: oh yay.
[07:21] <thom> JaneW: well, if my brother and i are any yardstick, anyway
[07:21] <zyga> Simira: he obviously need a bigger gameboy :)
[07:21] <JaneW> heh
[07:21] <zyga> needs
[07:21] <Simira> JaneW: I don't envy you the next 20 years for a second....
[07:21] <JaneW> thom: well you don't look like a yardstick, but I haven;t met your brother...
[07:21] <thom> JaneW: hahaha
[07:21] <JaneW> Simira: your time will come I am sure ;)
[07:22] <Nafallo> ey! 23, 25. they should be out by then I guess? ;-)
[07:22] <JaneW> out as in *out*?
[07:22] <JaneW> or out pof the house?
[07:22] <Simira> JaneW: hope not. I'll stick to the four-legged kind of creatures to take care of
[07:22] <Simira> Nafallo: what's that got to do with it? :p
[07:22] <JaneW> pof=of
[07:23] <thom> well, we're 25 and 20 and neither of lives at home any more, but we started liking each other again by the time i was about 16 so we may well be atypical :-0
[07:23] <Nafallo> Simira: hmm, true. my mother still calls one a day or so, and I moved 18 months ago or something...
[07:23] <Simira> Nafallo: they're trouble until they're fifty. Just less when turning 25 and might get a girlfriend to keep'em.
[07:23] <Simira> thom: I think that's normal
[07:24] <JaneW> Have a good evening everyone
[07:24] <Simira> evnin' JaneW 
[07:24] <zyga> being 23 and still living with my parents I guess I clasify as 'geek in the basement' :-)
[07:24] <Simira> Nafallo: I've been out for 5 years, I'm still my mothers daughter. She's gotta throw me a wedding next year anyway
[07:24] <Nafallo> JaneW: see you JaneW :-).
[07:24] <thom> night jane
[07:24] <JaneW> don;t forget to update your Breezy Goals!
[07:24] <Simira> :D
[07:24] <JaneW> *hint* *hint*
[07:25] <Nafallo> Simira: yea? kewl!! is that a breezy+1 goal then? :-)
[07:25] <Simira> Nafallo: no, we're not marrying until... uhm... a nonamed release yet. Wedded widgets? or something...
[07:26] <Nafallo> *s*
[07:26] <Simira> anyway, I'm into some windows gaming now...
[07:26] <Simira> bbl
[07:28] <dholbach> have fun, mvirkkil 
[07:28] <dholbach> mvo
[07:28] <dholbach> :-)
[07:29] <pitti> seb128: ?
[07:29] <seb128> pitti: yep?
[07:29] <mvo> thanks dholbach 
[07:29] <pitti> seb128: epiphany is still vulnerable against homograph attacks; am I right that it only needs a recompile to use the new ffox?
[07:30] <seb128> pitti: I don't think so, when have you updated ffox?
[07:30] <seb128> pitti: epiphany has been rebuilt yesterday for dbus transition
[07:30] <pitti> seb128: I mean for Warty
[07:30] <seb128> oh, I've not tried
[07:31] <seb128> but that depends on firefox yep
[07:31] <seb128> have you tried without rebuilding?
[07:31] <pitti> seb128: okay; we didn't fix warty yet, but once we do, we should fix epiphany as well
[07:31] <pitti> seb128: in any case, hoary should be fixed?
[07:32] <pitti> seb128: (http://www.shmoo.com/idn/)
[07:35] <pitti> seb128: I'll try without rebuilding before
[07:38] <dholbach> lamont: could you make vlc rebuild? to make it happy dbus-wise?
[07:40] <pitti> dholbach: are you sure that it doesn't need a patch for the new API?
[07:41] <dholbach> lamont: forget it, there are other plans for vlc :-)
[07:41] <torkel> dholbach: bluez* and screem too maybe?
[07:41] <dholbach> torkel: they need patches for sure
[07:42] <seb128> pitti: k
[07:43] <jdub> too many mono uploads ;)
[07:44] <seb128> cool, they sell a "linux CD" with an hoary DVD and 20 nices pages of descriptions of the apps/screenshots (gnome-app-install, synaptic, desktop, ...)/config/... 
[07:44] <torkel> dholbach: probably, and besides there is a newer version available upstream (for screem)
[07:44] <ogra> jdub, :(
[07:45] <dholbach> torkel: i tried them :-)
[07:45] <ogra> jdub, these packages are just crazy....
[07:45] <torkel> dholbach: ah :-)
[07:46] <ogra> jdub, debhelper and cdbs mixed up all over the place... and currently i'm only trying to get all binarys built on all arches....
[07:46] <doko> lamont: htmldoc doesn't contain any binary ... (1.8.23-1.3) please could rebuild/check ?
[07:47] <Nafallo> what package break screem? I can't afford that right now.
[07:47] <dholbach> dbus
[07:48] <Nafallo> dholbach: thanx. I hold back then :-).
[08:00] <pitti> Kamion: do you have an idea how to test (at the shell) whether a given locale is actually available in the system?
[08:01] <pitti> Kamion: grepping for it in $(locale -a) doesn't really work because of "UTF-8" vs. "utf8"
[08:01] <pitti> (of course this could be special cased, but it might fail for other encodings as well)
[08:05] <lamont> doko: which architecture>?
[08:06] <doko> i386
[08:07] <hunger> pitti: Can't you use sed to strip the utf8 or unify them to a common spelling?
[08:07] <pitti> hunger: of course I can s/UTF-8/utf8/, but will that always work?
[08:07] <pitti> hunger: maybe there is a more robust method
[08:08] <lamont> doko: broken Makefile... why do people think ignoring errors is a good thing, I wonder...
[08:08] <lamont> elmo around>?
[08:09] <hunger> pitti: You can always compare case insensitive.
[08:09] <pitti> hunger: "mind the dash"
[08:12] <doko> lamont: but works on the debian buildd's ...
[08:14] <pitti> hunger: it seems that I need a small C wrapper to call setlocale() and check whether it returns non-NULL
[08:14] <lamont> doko: was gcc-4.0 being borked on that buildd
[08:15] <lamont> doko: the error was that gcc-4.0 couldn't exec one of the stages
[08:17] <doko> lamont: reupload?
[08:17] <lamont> already done
[08:19] <lamont>  htmldoc_1.8.23-1.3build1 uploaded about :14
[08:19] <cartman> lamont: thanks for new util-linux
[08:19] <lamont> cartman: but does it fix the problem???
[08:19] <cartman> lamont: dist-upgrading now but won't be sure until next reboot
[08:20] <cartman> just showing my appreciation of you guys' fast bug fixes :)
[08:21] <dato> pitti: well, if you want only shell (i.e., want to avoid the wrapper if possible), you could do:
[08:21] <dato> if env LC_ALL="$whatever" locale 2>&1 >/dev/null | grep -q .; then echo Not valid; fi
[08:21] <pitti> dato: oh, right, that error message is printed to stderr
[08:22] <dato> &nod;
[08:24] <pitti> dato: if [ "$(locale 2>&1 >/dev/null)" ] ; then echo invalid locale; fi
[08:24] <pitti> dato: works fine, thanks
[08:26] <dato> ok
[08:45] <Keybuk> The Application "gnome-help" has quit unexpectedly.
[08:45] <Keybuk> That's ok ... it started unexpectedly too
[08:47] <Amaranth> Keybuk: Wanna see something funny?
[08:47] <Keybuk> sure
[08:47] <Amaranth> Keybuk: Open gedit and hit F1 a dozen times really fast
[08:47] <Keybuk> and what does that do?
[08:48] <Keybuk> other than give you 12 help windows?
[08:48] <Amaranth> opens and crashes gnome-help a dozen times
[08:48] <Keybuk> doesn't crash it for me
[08:48] <Keybuk> usually yelp crashes because you close it before it's finished loading
[08:48] <Amaranth> maybe you have to do it more than a dozen
[08:48] <Amaranth> i know i did it ~50 times
[08:49] <Amaranth> then all crashed
[08:49] <seb128> what would somebody do that?
[08:49] <Keybuk> leaning on the key?
[08:49] <Amaranth> yeah
[08:50] <Amaranth> people were talking about how to make it only open once because of what happens when you do that
[08:50] <Amaranth> so i had to see what happened :)
[08:50] <Keybuk> really?  personally I'd rather they fixed the bug that made it crash :)
[08:51] <Amaranth> that'd be nice too but if you don't get 50 help windows open you don't have to worry about it
[09:13] <jnc> Amaranth: that's like if you never launch a space shuttle
[09:13] <jnc> never have to worry about it blowing up
[09:13] <Amaranth> ;)
[09:14] <jnc> i wish evolution would hurry up and get built for the new dbus improvements 
[09:15] <dholbach> it did
[09:15] <dholbach> some 5-6 hours ago
[09:15] <jnc> oooh
[09:16] <Treenaks> dholbach: then I wish beagle would get the new updates ;)
[09:17] <dholbach> Treenaks: beagle needs more serious fixes
[09:17] <dholbach> :-)
[09:19] <Treenaks> dholbach: uh yes, but WHEN!?!
[09:19] <Treenaks> dholbach: I NEED MY CRACK! :P
[09:19] <dholbach> Treenaks: help in the UniverseCxxTransition - enough crack
[09:19] <dholbach> :-)
[09:20] <Treenaks> dholbach: explain how I get a sane breezy pbuilder tree then ;)
[09:20] <dholbach> Treenaks: fabbione fixed debootstrap
[09:21] <dholbach> apart from that you could just upgrade an existing hoary one
[09:21] <ogra> Treenaks, speed up the builds and extend the day by some hours, then i'll be able to give you beagle crack in a blink
[09:21] <dholbach> it's on wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
[09:21] <Treenaks> ogra: oh cool, I'll see to that ;)
[09:22] <Treenaks> dholbach: s/hoary/breezy/, I presume?
[09:22] <jnc> hm how would i go about tracking new developments in breezy?
[09:22] <dholbach> in the /etc/pbuilder/apt.config/source.list, yees
[09:22] <dholbach> jnc read the breezy-changes mailing list, maybe
[09:22] <ogra> Treenaks, i hope during the weekend i have the majority of mono stuff ready and building clean on amd64...
[09:22] <jnc> 10-4
[09:23] <dholbach> Treenaks: it's the last bit on the wiki page
[09:23] <ogra> ...(which applys to the other arches as well indeed...but i focus on amd64)
[09:23] <Treenaks> dholbach: doh.. OK, upgrading now
[09:37] <doko> lamont: htmldoc doesn't have a binary yet
[09:38] <doko> i386
[09:40] <mdz> jamesh: do you have access to a powerpc system?
[09:46] <lamont> doko: you're right... please fix htmldoc and upload
[09:46] <lamont> Compiling ../htmldoc/htmldoc.cxx...
[09:46] <lamont> gcc-4.0.gcc-opt: installation problem, cannot exec 'cc1plus': No such file or directory
[09:46] <lamont> make[2] : *** [../htmldoc/htmldoc.o]  Error 1
[09:49] <lamont> doko: specifically, gcc-4.0 can't build c++ code when g++-4.0 isn't installed...
[09:50] <jbailey> I'd love to see us force -xc whenever gcc{-#.##}
[09:50] <lamont> sounds good to me....
[09:50] <jbailey> That way the parser would puke on it directly.
[09:50] <lamont> elmo: can we have breezy-test?  or should I just turn it on?  mdz?
[09:51] <jbailey> lamont: No more than now - they're all dying from elf symbol mismatches around the libstdc++ abi change.
[09:51] <lamont> ah, true
[09:51] <lamont> and doko's gonna make that even more fun next week, or will that fix it?
[09:51] <jbailey> Well, fix like a bandaid over an oozing wound, but sure. ;)
[09:51] <doko> heh, have 30 library packages converted, will do the rest for main tomorrow
[09:57] <lamont> doko: thoughts on forcing -xc on gcc runs?
[09:59] <doko> lamont, jbailey, you mean -x c ?
[09:59] <lamont> ueaj
[09:59] <lamont> yeah, even
[10:00] <doko> hmm, what does this break?
[10:00] <lamont> it clarifies things like the error that htmldoc has
[10:01] <lamont> specifically, it's using gcc to compile c++ code, which currently fails (the 4.0 g++ compiler isn't there yet...)
[10:01] <jbailey> doko: Anything that assumes that gcc can compile a c++ ap.
[10:01] <lamont> (since it can't right now...)
[10:01] <jbailey> lamont: right. =)
[10:03] <doko> lamont: yes, let's do that then
[10:05] <ogra> hunger, dont you want to join #ubuntu-meeting ? you made a lot of comments about malone
[10:05] <dholbach> seb128: would you join #ubuntu-meeting for the malone meeting?
[10:06] <seb128> THANKS
[10:06] <seb128> I've forgotten
[10:15] <jnc> is malone the name of the next release after breezy?
[10:16] <lamont> malone is the bug tracking system
[10:16] <lamont> the release following breezy is..... breezy+1
[10:17] <jnc> thanks inifinity joe
[10:23] <jnc> err you're name's not joe is it
[11:28] <sladen> win 21
[11:30] <lamont> sladen: stop swearing. :-)
[11:41] <Riddell> mdz: are you going to let knetworkconf through?
[11:43] <mdz> Riddell: yes